164: Waiting for the Bla-Bloop

0:00:00I like the fact that every time I

0:00:01started call i have to click the button

0:00:03to say that I want to see the chat even

0:00:05though every single time Mr Colley do it

0:00:07yeah of all of all the work they've put

0:00:09into skype they've never decided to make

0:00:11that persistent you know God forbid

0:00:12application remember anything that you

0:00:15do it it's born in New everyone happy

0:00:18birthday

0:00:20we have important things to talk about

0:00:22so we should dive right in house the

0:00:24Tesla not that different from my opinion

0:00:26of it last week

0:00:27it's amazing like yeah it's just amazing

0:00:29I i really am appreciating it more and

0:00:32more everyday which and I already

0:00:34appreciate it quite a bit so that's

0:00:35saying a lot

0:00:36I'm very happy with the decision I made

0:00:38to go with it I'm also very happy with

0:00:40the one I chose to get not getting the

0:00:42faster with less range for a lot more

0:00:43money i I'm just very happy with it

0:00:45now tell me about you tweeted earlier

0:00:47today as we record that you put like

0:00:49this little teeny tiny USB stick

0:00:52what is this all about is this to put

0:00:54like a three fish songs because it's

0:00:56like a 30 gig stick right so that's like

0:00:58three or four fish songs it's 220 a cake

0:01:00sticks so it's six fish songs

0:01:01fair enough i don't actually need a

0:01:03hundred twenty eight gigs of storage in

0:01:05my car but it was like 10 bucks more

0:01:06than that

0:01:07that's what i needed so it's like okay

0:01:09just in case i'm sure i will have some

0:01:11reason to use under 20k USB stick it was

0:01:14like 40 bucks is that all they aren't

0:01:16could grief yeah exactly so this is this

0:01:19is the first USB stick i've ever

0:01:21purchased really i've never really used

0:01:23them and I I've accumulated enough like

0:01:25little ones from freebies from things

0:01:27here and there over the last decade that

0:01:29if I ever needed one for like the the

0:01:32one time every two years I might

0:01:34actually need 1i would just use one of

0:01:35those but none of them are big enough

0:01:37and and if you wait until 2016 to buy a

0:01:40USB stick USB sticks are really good and

0:01:43are almost free so I want something very

0:01:46very small because this is in the it's

0:01:47in the center console of the car it's

0:01:49like in the passenger was visible and

0:01:51it's protrudes from from a port so

0:01:53wanted to be as small as possible

0:01:55you know there is a base like this one

0:01:57and a sandesh one and the reviews of the

0:01:59Santa's gonna haul said that overheated

0:02:00constantly and was and like ran weirdly

0:02:03hot all the time and land the samsung

0:02:05what everyone said that works great

0:02:06doesn't overheat like that we're Santa's

0:02:07one so I want that and the only the only

0:02:10downside of it you know it's incredibly

0:02:12fast

0:02:13sb3 and has really high quality flash in

0:02:16there it's a samsung is really good

0:02:17flash i also have samsung external flash

0:02:20drive just in a two-and-a-half-inch

0:02:21enclosure from a computer because they

0:02:23make two gig SD or sorry two terabyte

0:02:26ssds now for like 600 bucks and granted

0:02:29$16 a lot of money and two terabytes is

0:02:33not an earth-shattering amount of space

0:02:34and 2016 however a two terabyte SSD that

0:02:38exists at all let alone is an affordable

0:02:40price is quite something

0:02:42yeah so I'm very happy with that because

0:02:44it is totally silent and very very fast

0:02:46and so I started on my media on there

0:02:48anyway so this little samsung stick the

0:02:51only flaw in it is that it has this

0:02:54giant Samsung logo written on the part

0:02:57of it sticks out so I just send it off

0:02:59with some you know like sandpaper in

0:03:01about five minutes

0:03:02I found my garage and it's great so now

0:03:05it's a nice blank is a USB Drive that is

0:03:08perfect

0:03:09turns out USB stick your kind of useful

0:03:10sometimes so anyway the reason is there

0:03:12my car is a because the car has the

0:03:16ability to like many modern car stereos

0:03:20to browse folders of mp3 files that you

0:03:23put on USB storage medium media and i

0:03:26don't think i have to double check but

0:03:28I'm i was pretty sure that it didn't

0:03:29have the ability to use like the the

0:03:32ipod music browsing interface off from

0:03:35the iphone that was plugged in so which

0:03:38is fine because i actually prefer like

0:03:39having folders i can organize things

0:03:41because I don't take my entire

0:03:42collection in the car because most my

0:03:45collection and doesn't matter in the car

0:03:46so it's nice to kind of build organized

0:03:49into folders and have actually

0:03:51subfolders at like so i have a folder

0:03:53for fish 2015 and then in that is like

0:03:56each 2015 tour like an organized and I

0:03:58want which is kind of different from

0:03:59what you get in like a typical ipod

0:04:02thing and it plays the songs in order

0:04:05which thank god it's amazing

0:04:08I don't know who who designed whatever

0:04:10system many other car manufacturers and

0:04:14head unit manufacturers use wear

0:04:16whatever you insert it plays the songs

0:04:19like alphabetically by song title

0:04:21whoever wants to hear things

0:04:23alphabetically by song title there are

0:04:26two

0:04:26orders that you're like to play things

0:04:28in either the order that they are on the

0:04:30album or shuffle

0:04:32nobody ever wants any other order yes

0:04:35the i have I don't remember how much

0:04:38music I have my car only have about 12

0:04:40gigs that's available to me I believe

0:04:41but I almost exclusively listen to stuff

0:04:44on my car and even the Bluetooth stack

0:04:46is pretty good on my car i find it just

0:04:49easier to navigate the eye dr and so

0:04:51with that in mind would you why do you

0:04:53not use bluetooth on the test i would

0:04:55think not having played with it that

0:04:57that being able to manipulate things on

0:04:59the test would be a lot easier because

0:05:00you have that whole big display there

0:05:02but i guess if all you really have

0:05:03available to you via bluetooth is like

0:05:04skip forward skippack play/pause maybe

0:05:07it's not really any different than any

0:05:09other car

0:05:10you're right that having to be displayed

0:05:12there actually does make it much more

0:05:13useful when you're doing things like

0:05:14navigating a USB stick full of folders

0:05:17and stuff so that is awesome on there

0:05:19you are also right that bluetooth is

0:05:21very limited its interaction and making

0:05:23this problem worse

0:05:24Tesla's bluetooth implementation isn't

0:05:26particularly great it's it's an ok one

0:05:28but there's a couple of shortcomings the

0:05:31biggest one to me is that it doesn't

0:05:34display the time elapsed or remaining

0:05:36which is really annoying for podcasts

0:05:39more more humorously there is some

0:05:42method to transfer album art and many

0:05:44blue stereos will show album art as

0:05:47transferred from anybody

0:05:48I think that's actually an apple

0:05:50extension to the standard or something

0:05:51anyway it doesn't matter

0:05:52test doesn't support the album art

0:05:54extension or whatever displays albemarle

0:05:57over bluetooth so instead they show you

0:06:00the album art from some kind of central

0:06:02album art database of a fuzzy match of

0:06:05whatever title is being supplied by the

0:06:08device so it tries to be smart but then

0:06:10you end up with completely nonsensical

0:06:13random often like slightly risque album

0:06:17art when you're listening to like back

0:06:19to work

0:06:19it's like it's a it makes no sense

0:06:22look at the other day was like back to

0:06:24work and feeling someone growing a

0:06:25bikini like some albums like you gotta

0:06:27be kidding me like at that they're

0:06:29driving around like my game is my son's

0:06:31high school or preschool parking lot and

0:06:34and they're like this bikini girl

0:06:36showing on my dashboard like oh my god I

0:06:37got a little something else

0:06:39that's not gonna work it so yeah that is

0:06:42very student eh I I hope Tesla improves

0:06:47that shortly i'm not i'm not you know

0:06:50keep my hopes of your site i know that

0:06:52chances are they'll just be had this car

0:06:54is for most of the time i have it

0:06:55because nobody cares about this area of

0:06:57the software accept me but yeah well you

0:07:02said you never work at Apple would you

0:07:03work at Tesla i mean i don't really want

0:07:06to move to California for a job however

0:07:09i'll actually did I was thinking

0:07:11recently like you know what I what I be

0:07:12interested in working for husband and i

0:07:14think i think it would be actually

0:07:15potentially very interesting it i would

0:07:19certainly it would certainly give me

0:07:21pause i would certainly consider it not

0:07:23you know not to work on any of like the

0:07:25fancy electrical stuff because I'm not

0:07:27qualified and also don't care but I you

0:07:30know to in order to work on like the the

0:07:33like in the in dash software the

0:07:35touchscreens offer the interface the

0:07:37media stuff maybe you know I don't know

0:07:39maybe what if you had to leave the house

0:07:41change the answer a little bit maybe a

0:07:46little

0:07:46could I bring hops the whole mm like a

0:07:50job for you get up and you getting your

0:07:53Tesla and you drive to the office you do

0:07:55your work there and then you drive back

0:07:57home and you have to do it monday

0:07:59through friday and when you take

0:08:00vacation you have to tell them and you

0:08:01get a certain number of those a year

0:08:02reminding you what a job is if i could

0:08:05if i can wear my slippers and if i can

0:08:07take naps at the office then then yes

0:08:09slippers i don't know i think although

0:08:13we have some people at work who wear

0:08:15socks and some people work who are

0:08:17barefoot but I I feel like that is not

0:08:20the norm

0:08:21do you ever rocky those look strong and

0:08:23hope you kidding i mean if you've been

0:08:26in the if anyone has ever been in an

0:08:27office late in New England you see the

0:08:32the mice to come out like I mean you

0:08:35just use their let you look over in like

0:08:37I was a mouse just hop across the carpet

0:08:38and then you think about the people

0:08:39walking around all day with socks or

0:08:41bare feet in his office tonight

0:08:43nope just the big note there

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0:10:13alright so anonymous wrote in again

0:10:17anonymous does that from time to time

0:10:18and they cleared something up sort of

0:10:21about Apple renewable energy and i was

0:10:24wondering and I think a lot of people

0:10:26are wondering and are they really using

0:10:29renewable energy or they just like doing

0:10:32offset sort of thing so anonymous wrote

0:10:33apples engaging agreements for 15 to 25

0:10:36years of power from renewable facilities

0:10:39by contracting with the wind or solar

0:10:41developer and agreeing to a fixed price

0:10:42of power over the term so apple doesn't

0:10:45physically use this power instead they

0:10:47agree to pay the wind or solar operator

0:10:49to the fixed price per megawatt-hour of

0:10:52energy generated by the farm the

0:10:54operator then sells the actual power

0:10:56into the local market or utility service

0:10:59area where the facility is located

0:11:00and I don't know John do you want to

0:11:03kinda still this whole economic bit

0:11:06after here I believe this anonymous

0:11:08person with somebody who works for some

0:11:10alternative energy works in the

0:11:12alternative energy industry and I don't

0:11:15think they were going from any

0:11:16first-hand knowledge of contracts but

0:11:18just like last time we talked about

0:11:19solar and everything in that I think

0:11:22some people have a vision in their minds

0:11:23of Apple building solar farms and

0:11:27connecting a big wire from the solar

0:11:28farms to their facilities which may be a

0:11:30thing that happens in certain

0:11:31circumstances depending on the geography

0:11:33and the available existing alternative

0:11:35energy sources and then other people are

0:11:37imagining all apple is doing is buy

0:11:40offsets from some distant land and just

0:11:42saying we'll pay you for that energy and

0:11:45that offsets the energy were taken from

0:11:46our local power provider and then you

0:11:48give that energy to the people who live

0:11:49near the existing solar wind farm and I

0:11:53imagine they do all those things and

0:11:54this feedback we had more detail in

0:11:56terms of the specifics of the agreement

0:11:59of not just that they're paying for

0:12:00energy you know elsewhere because like

0:12:02there's a you know solar power facility

0:12:04miles and miles away and they're not

0:12:05gonna like run a wire from that to them

0:12:07you know but that there is not even that

0:12:10the entered these contracts where they

0:12:12say will pay you a certain amount every

0:12:14month for you know for each

0:12:16megawatt-hour of energy and it's not

0:12:19like a bet between the alternative

0:12:20energy provider and apple because if it

0:12:23turns out that the price to generate the

0:12:25energy was lower than what Apple agreed

0:12:27to pay then that's good because the the

0:12:31universe solar operator says we only

0:12:33have to pay you know two cents per

0:12:34megawatt hour and you're buying it from

0:12:35us for for a dollar per megawatt-hour we

0:12:37get to keep the difference and the

0:12:38reverse is true too if it costs the

0:12:40solar energy provider always turns out

0:12:42this month that crosses ten bucks per

0:12:43megawatt-hour an apple agreed to pay us

0:12:45a one-dollar we just have to eat that

0:12:47nine dollars per megawatt hour so that

0:12:49the key financial deal here because if

0:12:52this comes in was talking about how

0:12:53Apple can do this because I have all

0:12:54this money to burn

0:12:55is that an indie luv this kind there's

0:12:57no upfront payment for the power of the

0:12:59facility already exists all apple has to

0:13:01do is enter into a contract with them

0:13:02and have this agreed-upon price in this

0:13:04particular arrangement i think what is

0:13:06it called a contract for differences

0:13:08it's called so you don't necessarily

0:13:10even have to have a lot of capital if

0:13:12you

0:13:13and enter into one of these agreements

0:13:14and it's just a matter of striking a

0:13:16good deal based on what you think it

0:13:19will actually cost over the long term to

0:13:21generate this power from this particular

0:13:22facility so anyway the world was weird

0:13:25and that is a a detail that's not

0:13:27particularly important it's not as of

0:13:28apples being disingenuous because buying

0:13:31offsets are entering into these

0:13:32agreements or paying for someone who

0:13:34lives near solar facility to get that

0:13:35energy from the solar facility while you

0:13:36get it from the coal fire plants like

0:13:38it's all it all comes out in the wash

0:13:40we're all on the same plan it's all the

0:13:41same atmosphere all the same co2 and if

0:13:43Apple didn't do this and didn't pay for

0:13:45these renewables no matter who is

0:13:46actually getting those specific

0:13:47electrons I would make a difference is

0:13:49what you're looking for is total you

0:13:51know total co2 output of the planet and

0:13:54not you know whether it's like right

0:13:56next to you or right next to someone

0:13:57else anyway I thought it was interesting

0:13:59alright so have all of us switch to

0:14:03purple safari i am using it on my work

0:14:05computer I just tonight installed on my

0:14:07imac but haven't started using it yet i

0:14:09should note actually as I forgot about

0:14:11this follow-up the beta of one password

0:14:15for sure in died at this point they

0:14:17might have released a new non beta

0:14:19version but anyway the beta of 1password

0:14:21supports the new purple safari so if you

0:14:25are having the same woes that I was you

0:14:28can run the beta additionally there's a

0:14:29switch and preferences that a couple

0:14:31people wrote wrote in to tell me about

0:14:33and forgive me because i don't have

0:14:35neither your names or the preference in

0:14:36front of me but even on the regular

0:14:38version somewhere in like the advanced

0:14:40preferences where they have a little

0:14:41love

0:14:42Yoda or the little Jedi looking person

0:14:44on the right-hand side of the robot or

0:14:46not there's a switch that says you can

0:14:49override the security checks on the

0:14:52browser but anyway we're not here to

0:14:54talk about one password were here to

0:14:55talk about purple safari so have you

0:14:57guys been using it

0:14:57I'm switched everywhere and last week I

0:15:00was worried that switching the that I

0:15:02have to somehow disabled my regular

0:15:04safari or would like get launched by

0:15:06like an apple event somewhere or you

0:15:08know whatever on but after using it

0:15:10both at home and at work for a week my

0:15:13fears were unfounded you switch the

0:15:14default browser in the Safari preference

0:15:16pains for either version of Safari you

0:15:19know pull the other one off your dock

0:15:20and it's purple safari all the way from

0:15:22there and it works fine maybe only

0:15:24annoyance i found is

0:15:26that it unlike chrome which will like

0:15:28sync your extensions everywhere I had to

0:15:30sort of reinstall my safari extensions

0:15:32and a lot of them i had to kind of track

0:15:33down and find the original websites

0:15:35where I mean I just dug them out of the

0:15:36folder but I was trying to you know it

0:15:39was a good time to just get them from

0:15:40the web again or go through the you know

0:15:42maybe get that the later version if I

0:15:43had a bad update your help anyway i had

0:15:45to reinstall my extensions rear and I'll

0:15:47rearrange all my icons on my toolbar

0:15:49re-import the options like I have said

0:15:51this far keyword extension lets you type

0:15:53stuff in the address bar and do searches

0:15:55I'd export those from safari import

0:15:57never once i got everything set up

0:15:59I'm all purple sorry now and I think

0:16:01I'll just stay this way unless i have

0:16:02some compelling reason to switch back

0:16:03like purpose of our suddenly starts

0:16:05crashing but so far so good i recommend

0:16:07people trying it out if you're

0:16:08interested in maybe having a little bit

0:16:11faster safari or if you're interested in

0:16:12any of the the many new web technologies

0:16:15that are interested like if your web

0:16:16developer and wanna try to map

0:16:18yeah I didn't feel like it was faster

0:16:20although that very well could be a

0:16:22placebo the fact but my remember things

0:16:25myself

0:16:26well this feels fast so I don't know but

0:16:29if you do you feel like it's been

0:16:31quicker for you as well

0:16:32purple is faster ever notice that I

0:16:35totally alright good talk

0:16:36I don't know what that reference was it

0:16:38was one anyway so there's been a pretty

0:16:42considerable kerfuffle going across the

0:16:45internet over the last couple of days

0:16:46about TextExpander six text expander is

0:16:50an app that have a sponsored us in the

0:16:52past i believe they have a sponsor so

0:16:55much stuff i think i'm pretty sure like

0:16:56I mean I think pfn sponsor my side while

0:16:59battle back is also smile so anyway

0:17:01they've probably spotted our stuff right

0:17:03so text expander six is new and it is

0:17:08moving to a subscription model and it

0:17:10previously was somewhere between like 10

0:17:1320 bucks depending on the platform i

0:17:15believe and they tended to do an update

0:17:18about once a year from what i gather i'm

0:17:21actually not a text expander user but

0:17:22I'm that that's the general gist of what

0:17:24I've understood and they've announced

0:17:26that hey they're going to switch to

0:17:27subscription pricing it's about 50 bucks

0:17:29a year give or take and you can get sink

0:17:32through their own servers kind of like

0:17:34what one passwords doing now with one

0:17:36password four teams and one

0:17:38password families and actually day one

0:17:41as well so you can sync via their

0:17:44servers and you can have collaborations

0:17:48or you can have a shared TextExpander

0:17:51snippets across teams if that's

0:17:53something that you're interested in but

0:17:55by the way we are not supporting dropbox

0:17:59based sink anymore

0:18:01basically it's either use the old

0:18:03version until it doesn't work anymore or

0:18:06give us money and well and will give you

0:18:09the new hotness and a lot of people are

0:18:11flustered and we'll put a link to je

0:18:15sais blog which as always is a really

0:18:19good summary this is one of the longer

0:18:21ones I've seen actually but a really

0:18:22good summary and it kind of goes through

0:18:25a lot of different reactions and I think

0:18:28the general summary is those who are

0:18:30developers are no developers completely

0:18:33understand it and and are probably

0:18:36willing to pay for it but those who are

0:18:39just users or can kind of put on their

0:18:42user hat they it's it's a tough sell

0:18:46because I'm like 1password their kind of

0:18:50taking something away

0:18:511password like it will continue to let

0:18:53use dropbox least for now and it seems

0:18:56that smiles taking away that option for

0:18:58any future versions so i don't know i

0:19:01don't really have a lot to say about

0:19:02this because like I said we're not text

0:19:04expander user but it's certainly a tough

0:19:06thing because how do you make money in

0:19:07the app store these days I mean it's not

0:19:09easy as a Marco no it's really not i

0:19:12mean you know my my view on this is

0:19:15certainly colored by my own experiences

0:19:17within the app store and and I have some

0:19:19distance from it because while I did

0:19:22purchase the most recent version texted

0:19:24before this when I was thinking I could

0:19:26actually answer support emails I don't

0:19:29currently use it because I turns out i

0:19:31can't answer support emails so I I'm not

0:19:33an active user so it doesn't i'm not

0:19:34really invested in it either way and at

0:19:37the same time I also now sell an appt

0:19:40with subscription pricing sort of i see

0:19:42why a lot of people are mad about this

0:19:44what I've seen from my own experience it

0:19:47is that people get mad when they sense

0:19:50that you're like double dipping or

0:19:52unfairly charging in and whatever their

0:19:55view is unfair or if you charge them or

0:19:59if you ask for money or if you put up

0:20:01barriers in a way that they are not

0:20:03accustomed to that breaks their

0:20:05expectations of like I've never had to

0:20:08pay this way before or never had to pay

0:20:10for this thing before or i thought i

0:20:12already owned this thing out right and

0:20:14this is all very very tricky these days

0:20:16because the reality is people's

0:20:18expectations of software you buy it and

0:20:22then you know you can use it for a while

0:20:24until maybe there's an upgrade a few

0:20:26years down the road and then you by the

0:20:27upgrade maybe a discount people's

0:20:29expectations of that kind of software is

0:20:31that you pay once and then you have it

0:20:34and at the same time though they also

0:20:37expect updates to it they expect you to

0:20:40be fixing bugs to be providing

0:20:42compatibility for new version of the OS

0:20:43and possibly even adding features all

0:20:46within that same initial price they paid

0:20:48somewhere on the line like that that

0:20:51doesn't work they are fatally the people

0:20:53are thinking of the benefits of the

0:20:55software and the responsibility of the

0:20:57software makers as a service that is

0:20:59constantly provided over time for their

0:21:02one initial purchase price but of course

0:21:04they get really mad if you want them to

0:21:07pay on a subscription basis for what

0:21:10they are really getting which is

0:21:11subscription benefits it's kind of hard

0:21:13to not do that in some way or another

0:21:15day filled with your software vendor you

0:21:18are having ongoing costs you're having

0:21:20cost as a service whether you're running

0:21:22servers or not it's like you're having

0:21:23constant ongoing maintenance of this app

0:21:26and and you know advancing moving

0:21:28forward keeping it working

0:21:29improving etc so there is this

0:21:33disconnect between what people are

0:21:35willing to pay for which is they want to

0:21:37pay once and own it forever but also

0:21:40that if you don't give them constant

0:21:43updates they will hate you even more for

0:21:45that and they certainly don't want to go

0:21:47out of business they really hate when

0:21:49you do that or when you pull a product

0:21:50they really hate that so that's worse

0:21:54so they want you to be there and to be

0:21:57providing updates on a regular basis and

0:21:59to fix any bugs the crop up and to

0:22:01improve the product

0:22:02make it work whenever there's new OS

0:22:04they want that but they don't want to

0:22:06pay more than that one time upfront so

0:22:09obviously something has to give here so

0:22:12I don't begrudge the idea of

0:22:15subscription pricing i do think however

0:22:17that this particular case I i don't

0:22:20think they did a very good job with it

0:22:22and I'm not too close to it so it's

0:22:26maybe i'm wrong but i think the reaction

0:22:29of a lot of their customers that have

0:22:30been hearing about from today at that

0:22:32might backup that I'm right

0:22:34what text expander has done is they've

0:22:37transformed from a like what was the

0:22:40president like 35 bucks something like

0:22:41that i don't know to be honest I thought

0:22:44it was closer to 20 originally but I

0:22:46very well could have that wrong i think

0:22:47whatever it is i think it's somewhere in

0:22:49that range right it has transformed from

0:22:51that into a required five dollars a

0:22:55month service so it's it's a pretty

0:22:58substantial price increase it as well as

0:23:01the justification for this service being

0:23:05something that they justify it by saying

0:23:06oh now you can like share your snippets

0:23:08with co-workers or family or whatever

0:23:11else and this is it's like they took

0:23:13away that the problem or the the

0:23:16solution they had for syncing for your

0:23:17own personal stuff between your own

0:23:19computers which was thinking via Dropbox

0:23:21or you know BitTorrent sync or whatever

0:23:22other options they had that you think

0:23:23pretty much any way you want to but i

0:23:25think a lot people to dropbox thinking

0:23:26they took that away and now they're

0:23:29saying now you have to pay us a lot more

0:23:31than you're paying before but you will

0:23:33get these benefits and the problem is

0:23:35those benefits were things that most of

0:23:36their customers at least we're hearing

0:23:38from I don't know the supplies their

0:23:39customer base but the customers were

0:23:41hearing from don't really want those

0:23:43benefits don't really care about the

0:23:44benefits and they're not going to use

0:23:45those benefits so the reason everyone's

0:23:47mad is because not only have they change

0:23:50the model in a way that a lot of people

0:23:52don't like a lot of people just don't

0:23:53like subscription pricing and again I

0:23:56totally get why people don't like that I

0:23:58don't like it either but I also don't

0:24:01like software that goes out of business

0:24:03or that can't afford to keep updated or

0:24:05anything else like so it's hard

0:24:07I recognize this the way that software

0:24:10developers really need to have some

0:24:12model that provides recurring revenue

0:24:14over time for users who are using all

0:24:16the time

0:24:16whether you do that via occasional

0:24:18upgrade upgrade pricing or whether you

0:24:20do it via a monthly subscription or some

0:24:22other scheme where they do that you know

0:24:24somehow you need to eat have some way to

0:24:28make money from people over time not

0:24:30just once up front I don't think you

0:24:32need to be deep in the development

0:24:34community like what you know the mindset

0:24:35you know certainly marcos coming from

0:24:37and all of us because we know developers

0:24:39and we talk to developers like we have

0:24:40that perspective but I think for this

0:24:42particular change I think you could take

0:24:44just anyone from business school and

0:24:47throw them at this and even understand

0:24:48what software is I think it it looks

0:24:52like so many other business decision so

0:24:55from my perspective what they're doing

0:24:58and explains a lot of the anger the

0:24:59marker just you know talking about from

0:25:00the the you know the customers

0:25:02perspective at the very least is they

0:25:05have a they have a customer base now the

0:25:06use the product if you were to serve as

0:25:09customer insight how much value do you

0:25:11get out of using text expander a lot of

0:25:14them would say you know I maybe I get 45

0:25:17dollars worth of value added over the

0:25:19lifetime that i've been using it

0:25:20some would say maybe I you know it's

0:25:23like asking how much would you pay if we

0:25:24say we take Texas been away from you and

0:25:26to get it back you have to pay some

0:25:27money obviously if someone accuses at

0:25:30answer support email for example or like

0:25:33does a lot of repetitive emailing or

0:25:35uses very sophisticated features where

0:25:36you fill in the blanks everything like

0:25:37that they're going to say all you know

0:25:39this is the main tool i use to make my

0:25:41living like it is an essential part of

0:25:43my workflow of texas-pan was gone I

0:25:45don't know what I would do with myself

0:25:46it is incredibly valuable for me the

0:25:48fact that i paid forty five dollars for

0:25:49last year's like the steal of the

0:25:50century like this is literally how I get

0:25:52all my income and then the dream of any

0:25:56business school major is like can I

0:25:58charge that guy like three thousand

0:26:00dollars and then charged at the guy who

0:26:03is only going to use it twice a year

0:26:04like 5 bucks like can I charge every

0:26:06customer in the maximum amount they're

0:26:08willing to pay for this software

0:26:10yeah maybe and the answer is you can't

0:26:11do that because we don't know how much

0:26:13worth or whatever but what you can do

0:26:15and what it seems like to spend smiles

0:26:17trying to do with this one is say we've

0:26:19got all these customers for a lot of

0:26:21them they're getting like $45 for the

0:26:24value or even less out of the software

0:26:26but there are some users who get a

0:26:29tremendous

0:26:29Amanda values texture is very powerful

0:26:31if you do the type of things tech

0:26:33suspenders made to do is like

0:26:34best-in-class like very sophisticated

0:26:36features you know like it makes and you

0:26:39know love very polished workflow amateur

0:26:41products tables you know like this is

0:26:44this is a it's not just like my first

0:26:46text expander type thing this is a very

0:26:47substantial product for the people who

0:26:50do this all the time and you say i would

0:26:54rather just sell to those people for a

0:26:57much higher price in a way that we can

0:26:59continue to sell to those people

0:27:01essentially forever as long as those

0:27:02people exist because they're doing it

0:27:04for their job and we're going to provide

0:27:06them with this tool to do their job and

0:27:08the same kind of like photoshop have

0:27:09arrangement like your graphic designer

0:27:11you use Photoshop to make your living

0:27:14I and we will give you the tools to make

0:27:16your living and so you will subscribe to

0:27:17photoshop because it's a bargain to you

0:27:19to pay you whatever it is a hundred two

0:27:21hundred bucks a year to make thousands

0:27:23upon thousands of dollars is a graphic

0:27:24designer every year if we took away

0:27:26photoshop it would be seriously impair

0:27:27your productivity is you have to learn

0:27:28the program and so on so forth so it's

0:27:30like Texas matter is saying thanks for

0:27:32all the participation casual Texas

0:27:35manner users but we would much rather I

0:27:38he sell to the heaviest TextExpander

0:27:42users at a price that they find

0:27:44justifiable and that we feel like is the

0:27:47most sustainable the most profitable

0:27:48like whatever you know we're we're gonna

0:27:50make it up and lack of volume

0:27:51essentially is the opposite of we're

0:27:53going to make it up in volume

0:27:54I just want the good customers the ones

0:27:56who the power user customers and so why

0:27:59people are mad is Texas matter basically

0:28:01saying to them not really basically

0:28:03saying were not that interested in your

0:28:07business anymore as Texas matter was

0:28:08only worth $45 you want to use or five

0:28:10years that's not the kind of customer

0:28:14that we want to serve maybe it's because

0:28:16they feel like they can't serve it may

0:28:17be you know like I don't know what the

0:28:18what the motivation for it is but even

0:28:20if they were doing great they could say

0:28:22we're refocusing our business on the pro

0:28:24TextExpander market right and everybody

0:28:26who wasn't a pro tech centers like but I

0:28:28like TextExpander like I don't use that

0:28:30much but i really like it and now you're

0:28:31telling me i've been priced out of this

0:28:33market like because you want those other

0:28:35customers and that can definitely make

0:28:37people mad but what I keep thinking is

0:28:39the those people getting mad does that

0:28:41affect TextExpander at all

0:28:43like you know this that's the business

0:28:45you try a business model you see are

0:28:47there enough people who are willing to

0:28:48pay 50 60 bucks a year for Texas pander

0:28:50to make up for all the people you're

0:28:52losing who wanted to pay you know $45

0:28:54once and use it for three years

0:28:56that's the experiment they're running i

0:28:58think it is a perfectly valid experiment

0:29:00to have but a necessary side effect is

0:29:03the sort of the disenfranchised become

0:29:06angry about the fact that previously

0:29:07they had access to this very powerful

0:29:10utility that maybe they only use the

0:29:12case when you're using a fraction of the

0:29:13power of and now they you know they can

0:29:17just use the old version until it

0:29:19eventually stops working and they you

0:29:20know that they've been cut out of that

0:29:22market and they have to look elsewhere

0:29:23it so they could be annoyed by it but i

0:29:25can feel like i can get MIT and

0:29:27particularly mad about it just because i

0:29:30think it is a it's a reasonable strategy

0:29:33for trying to make your business both

0:29:37more profitable which you know flavors

0:29:39all they just want more money yeah

0:29:40that's how business works i can get more

0:29:42profitable and more sustainable because

0:29:44if you get if you ever hit that critical

0:29:46mass like apparently adobe has many

0:29:47other companies are trying two of these

0:29:50users use my tool to make their living

0:29:51they're willing to pay this much every

0:29:53single year and that amount of the pay

0:29:55every single year with the number of

0:29:57them there are is enough to sustain

0:29:58development you can do that essentially

0:30:00indefinitely like as long as you know

0:30:02your competitor doesn't come and steal

0:30:03your thing or your practice and become

0:30:05moot because everyone uses mind control

0:30:07you know so many other things can affect

0:30:08you but at the very least you've got

0:30:09you've got the basic inner workings of a

0:30:12sustainable business model there which

0:30:14is a refreshing change after the sort of

0:30:15boom-bust you know viral hit a throwaway

0:30:20application you know the things that the

0:30:23app stores have brought on where it's

0:30:24like I gotta make a new app every year

0:30:25and it's got to be a big hit and if it

0:30:27isn't going out of business

0:30:28it's so much more comfortable to be able

0:30:29to have loyal customers who pay for your

0:30:31product and they're paying for your

0:30:32product every year pays for development

0:30:34you just do that you know if that really

0:30:36works out for them if they end up making

0:30:38more money from this that's fine I i

0:30:40think there's a couple angles to this to

0:30:41reconsider the first of all and I know

0:30:43you didn't say this but for people

0:30:45thinking this you can't just say oh they

0:30:46just want to make more money it might be

0:30:49that they were declining revenue and

0:30:51they're trying to sustain this business

0:30:53or to keep this product going all that

0:30:54that is making more money that is made

0:30:56more money more money than they were

0:30:57previously making the previous amount

0:30:58was not enough to keep them in business

0:31:00like they need to pay the bills and get

0:31:01the lights on

0:31:02right but like you can look at it as a

0:31:03computer green angle if like they were

0:31:05doing fine before I know that you want

0:31:07to juice it even higher but it's also

0:31:08possible that it was going down before I

0:31:10never trying to just like bring it back

0:31:12up to where it was right so and if you

0:31:14read between the lines and some of the

0:31:15statements they've made it sounds kind

0:31:18of like it wasn't making enough money

0:31:20before for them to justify working on it

0:31:22but do you draw a distinction between

0:31:23those two cases they just outlined as in

0:31:25previously we were sustainable but we

0:31:27felt like we can make more money with

0:31:28this model and previously we were

0:31:30unsustainable so we have to do something

0:31:31to avoid going out of business like you

0:31:33it do you think those those are really

0:31:35any different like is there is that

0:31:38distinction that you make as a customer

0:31:39certainly is a distinction you can

0:31:41imagine making just as kind of like a

0:31:43human being where if they are it looks

0:31:45like they're going to go into business

0:31:46you feel bad for you have empathy for

0:31:48like I like those guys i like their

0:31:49product I don't want to see them go out

0:31:50of business both for selfish reasons

0:31:51like you said because I'm user of the

0:31:53product and I don't you know I wanted to

0:31:55continue to be developed right and also

0:31:57because you feel bad like Oh they've

0:31:58been doing a good job

0:31:59their job is to write programs i think

0:32:01they're good at their job and I would

0:32:03like to see them succeed because you

0:32:05know just basic human empathy and

0:32:07therefore you're more willing to sort of

0:32:10you know allow for changes in their

0:32:13pricing model to sort of help them out

0:32:14versus they had a sustainable business

0:32:16and they just want more money and that

0:32:17suddenly that that is its villainous to

0:32:19do that like that that you should never

0:32:21that as soon as you have enough to pay

0:32:23your bills and not go hungry and pay for

0:32:25food and shelter you should never want

0:32:27more because wanting anything more is

0:32:29entirely like is essentially evil and

0:32:32that's that's agreed and I don't see a

0:32:35hard line between those things i know a

0:32:36lot of people do but it's like where do

0:32:38you draw that line when it was enough

0:32:40money like i have enough to have payroll

0:32:41and enough to pay my mortgage but not

0:32:45enough to to save for retirement send my

0:32:47kids to college is that ok asked to make

0:32:49more money then like I don't know that

0:32:51that if you start breaking that down and

0:32:53starts to be nonsensical so I'm

0:32:56personally going to give wide latitude

0:32:58to making more figuring out ways to make

0:33:00more money with your labor if you're

0:33:02good at writing software and the

0:33:04software product you have made and

0:33:05polished over the years is text expander

0:33:07and you find a way to make more

0:33:09money from that product I don't attach

0:33:12any moral judgment to that at all even

0:33:14if it means that a whole bunch of your

0:33:16previous customers are no longer in your

0:33:18customer base for future versions but i

0:33:20know a lot of people do it and i think i

0:33:21think a lot of that like what you just

0:33:23highlight Margo explains a lot of the

0:33:24anger that people really do draw that

0:33:26line of like you were making enough

0:33:28money to not do not live in the street

0:33:31already and now you want more forget

0:33:33your evil 02 a lot believe me I hear

0:33:35from them a lot of people thought that

0:33:37about that line and I'm not one of them

0:33:40but that you know that I think that

0:33:42could be something to consider here for

0:33:44it you know if you're getting angry at

0:33:45smile for really dramatically raising

0:33:48the price of this app in a way to you

0:33:50might not like you know it might be

0:33:53because they had to but also you have to

0:33:56look at the competitive landscape here

0:33:58there are lots of similar utilities that

0:34:01do the same basic job and just differ in

0:34:03like the features they offer on top of

0:34:05that you know so there's there's lots of

0:34:07alternative to this and honestly today

0:34:09following a very good day for them

0:34:10however you feel about this with you

0:34:12know whether your customer or not

0:34:14looking at it from smiles perspective I

0:34:17i think this was a mistake for them and

0:34:20time will tell i was sat on the market

0:34:21at all

0:34:22time will tell but they have basically

0:34:24discarded a big part of their existing

0:34:27customer base in an effort to either get

0:34:30more money from the parts left and/or to

0:34:33move into a more business-oriented one

0:34:35where there there will be allegedly

0:34:38businesses who use like synced snippets

0:34:41and everything from Texas matter and

0:34:42that might be a big business i don't

0:34:44know i don't I wouldn't have guessed it

0:34:46would be a big business but I'm wrong

0:34:48all the time so that might work out for

0:34:50them if it does that's fine but i don't

0:34:53think this is gonna go well because what

0:34:56I see mostly happening here is you know

0:34:59you could you can make a move like that

0:35:00when you are in a position of strength

0:35:03you know when when you're like the only

0:35:04game in town and people depend on you to

0:35:06get their work done and for a lot of

0:35:08people that will be true but I don't

0:35:11think for enough people because for a

0:35:12big part of the customers who are now

0:35:14faced with a big price hike and removal

0:35:17of features they used vs no other

0:35:20choices they

0:35:21have lots of other choices there's all

0:35:23these alternatives a software things

0:35:25that do this for substantially less

0:35:28money now you know be before they were

0:35:30much more competitive now like they're

0:35:32in a high competition environment so I I

0:35:35think I mean one way to do this or you

0:35:37know one way to resolve this

0:35:39if they wanted to make more money or

0:35:41need to make more money from this you

0:35:43can either cut the costs that you're

0:35:45putting into it or you can charge more

0:35:48both of those are going to affect your

0:35:49users negatively in some way

0:35:51the question is you know which one can

0:35:53you get away with better and I I'm not

0:35:56sure they chose correctly but i don't

0:35:57know how many choices they had AI don't

0:35:59know anything with the business and the

0:36:01natural consequence of this if you just

0:36:02keep playing it out is that you know

0:36:03it's like someone gets the idea we could

0:36:05be enterprise software we could charge a

0:36:07minimum five fingers for any

0:36:08installation of our things like what why

0:36:10not sell TextExpander into you know the

0:36:13sort of large email based support

0:36:16networks of like where if you if you if

0:36:19you're a very large company you just

0:36:20have to hire like literally hundreds and

0:36:22hundreds of people to answer your

0:36:24support emails and everything you'd want

0:36:25to give them tools to do their job well

0:36:27and sort of standardized and basic

0:36:29snippets and templates and so on and so

0:36:30forth you can imagine i'm sure there is

0:36:33really terrible enterprise over that

0:36:34already does that and text expander

0:36:36perhaps these that market and say i

0:36:38would rather sell 5 million dollar

0:36:40installations then yeah you know million

0:36:43five-dollar apps right like that we want

0:36:45to actually become enterprise offerings

0:36:46are as we discussed in many past shows

0:36:48enterprise software can be tempting and

0:36:51can be lucrative and you can be

0:36:53protected from competition by the fact

0:36:56that it's a pain in the butt to sell

0:36:57enterprise offering at the higher sales

0:36:59people is a high barrier to entry and

0:37:00you have relationships and make the old

0:37:02golf courses around the hell goes on but

0:37:03enterprise software is absolutely poison

0:37:06to the quality of your product and it

0:37:09makes you vulnerable to anyone making

0:37:10anything worth a damn because eventually

0:37:11you know the enterprise software the my

0:37:13definition for many years ago was like

0:37:15when the person who buys your software

0:37:17is not the person who uses it and that

0:37:19is a totally misaligned incentives and

0:37:20it leads to software that is very very

0:37:24attractive to buy but terrible to use

0:37:27like it's my big loop stays in business

0:37:29like you really you really want to you

0:37:31you are vulnerable to someone who

0:37:32actually makes a product that the users

0:37:34like because eventually

0:37:35even enterprise you start to result in

0:37:36bring their iphones to work or bring

0:37:38their max to work or bring whatever

0:37:39product they think is not a piece of

0:37:41crap and use that instead so it's not

0:37:43that I'm saying sex offender something

0:37:45terrible you know

0:37:46oracle or is a p-type company but that

0:37:48is if you just keep playing that out and

0:37:50say instead of mass-market low price

0:37:53let's do you know much smaller market

0:37:56much higher price and it could be like

0:37:58you said Marcus if the crowded market

0:37:59for text expander type products

0:38:01how does tex expanded differentiate what

0:38:03do they have the beloved ones don't

0:38:04maybe what they have is we have a very

0:38:05sophisticated feature set we want to be

0:38:07the pro TextExpander product we're going

0:38:10to leave the consumer market to our

0:38:11competitors and let them fight it out

0:38:13for you know thousands and thousands of

0:38:15people want to pay you know 5 10 15 20

0:38:1730 40 bucks and we want to move up

0:38:19market and just keep the sort of

0:38:21high-end the people who are willing to

0:38:23pay more for a better fit more

0:38:25sophisticated product because part of

0:38:26how to do the job I don't know how to

0:38:28handicap neither like you said marker we

0:38:30need to run with notes like the intimate

0:38:32details of the text expander market

0:38:34landscape or whatever I have the same

0:38:36feeling that this doesn't seem like a

0:38:38Power Move to me this seems like

0:38:39something they would do because they

0:38:41were having trouble sustaining i do

0:38:44agree that the alternatives you later

0:38:45they're like maybe just lower your costs

0:38:47maybe they had hired too many people

0:38:49make you know I have no idea how big

0:38:50their their staffing is there but that's

0:38:53one way to go but the other way is to

0:38:54you know because I make it up and lack

0:38:57of volume can we make more money by

0:38:59selling to fewer people for a higher

0:39:00price and that seems again with total

0:39:04vacuum of knowledge to me if I had to

0:39:06make a bet i would say that that has a

0:39:08higher chance of failing and not because

0:39:10it's really really hard to do that i

0:39:12mean it's it's hard to do in either

0:39:13direction to say hey if we if we cut the

0:39:15price in half we get more than double

0:39:16the customers especially in the appstore

0:39:19market the way it is that has worked for

0:39:21many people more often than hey if we

0:39:23double our price or triple our price

0:39:25can we get more than half for his third

0:39:28as many people i don't know but this is

0:39:31business like I don't I again I

0:39:33understand what people get angry about

0:39:34it but like that's how it works and they

0:39:36decide a price and they say we are

0:39:39offering you the service priceline

0:39:40customers decide whether it's worth it

0:39:41for them it is not worth it they don't

0:39:42buy it and that is signal the company

0:39:44that you need to change something and if

0:39:46it is you know and maybe the signal they

0:39:47were getting with the $45

0:39:49one-time purchase product was people

0:39:51will buy it but they don't like upgrades

0:39:52and we can't pay to maintain the

0:39:54software so i think we're just you know

0:39:57will come to revisit this in a year and

0:39:59see how it worked out for them but i

0:40:00think going on market is a viable

0:40:02strategy I just feel like they might

0:40:03have to go even farther on market than

0:40:06this and i agree with every Marco said

0:40:08about it's kind of like the you know the

0:40:10things we talked about with with

0:40:10overcast like perception-wise that you

0:40:15being cut out of the market you know in

0:40:17a way it makes you feel bad like I you

0:40:21know I like the previous deal i was

0:40:23getting and now they've altered the deal

0:40:25and case you can finish that reference

0:40:28for Murphy remembers it and they're sad

0:40:30about it and they also think there's no

0:40:34reason for it but i don't think they're

0:40:35looking at it from the perspective of

0:40:36texas-pan why should they are just the

0:40:38customer but from the perspective

0:40:39protect expands like maybe maybe to

0:40:41expand doesn't want you as a customer

0:40:42anymore it's like what do you mean you

0:40:44don't want me to bring such a loyal

0:40:45customer i love the product why wouldn't

0:40:46they want me anymore

0:40:48why can't why can't they just continue

0:40:49to make the product that i've been using

0:40:50it since withdraw can just keep taking

0:40:52me forever and the answer is because you

0:40:55don't want to pay for it again i do want

0:40:57a paper again i'll pay you forty five

0:40:58dollars right now would you

0:40:59suddenly you're ready to pay $45 they

0:41:01came up with universal TextExpander you

0:41:02bought six months ago you'd be excited

0:41:03to play $45 for a new version i don't

0:41:06know if you anyway even if you would

0:41:08maybe there's not enough other people

0:41:10like you and so they have to come up

0:41:11with something different it's it's not

0:41:13it's not personal just business

0:41:15I made passing reference earlier but i

0:41:18think it is important to reiterate that

0:41:19no one password change well maybe not

0:41:22change their model but augmented their

0:41:24model by this one password four teams

0:41:27and then one password for families and

0:41:28the thing that that made me cool with

0:41:32one password four teams one password for

0:41:34families was it didn't change the way

0:41:36things were so it was not a change as

0:41:39like I said a second ago was an

0:41:41augmentation or in addition if 1password

0:41:45hypothetically had said you know what if

0:41:48you want to sync between your own

0:41:49devices leave aside other people leave

0:41:51aside the team aspects of the family

0:41:53aspect if they had said that hey if you

0:41:56want to sync your passwords between your

0:41:58devices guess what you have to sign up

0:42:00for five dollars a month

0:42:01uh I would be fairly upset because I

0:42:04would feel like I got hoodwinked I would

0:42:06feel like it was a bait-and-switch and I

0:42:07freaking love 1password i consider it

0:42:10like you're I think it was you John

0:42:12describing earlier name is Marco but it

0:42:14is essential for me to get my my life

0:42:17done not even my work but my life I

0:42:19loved one password i would probably pay

0:42:22five dollars a month for this

0:42:23hypothetical sink only service but i

0:42:27would be pretty frustrated with it and I

0:42:30would perhaps go from saying i freaking

0:42:32love 1password to yeah I like 1password

0:42:34i use it as it turns out because there

0:42:38they didn't take away what i already had

0:42:41and additionally they they added this

0:42:43new family feature that's five dollars

0:42:46per I think her family per month and

0:42:49families to find us like I don't know

0:42:50fiber so people forget exactly the

0:42:52specifics

0:42:53I've signed up one password for family

0:42:56and that was actually the impetus I

0:42:57needed a to continue get Aaron using one

0:43:01password as well which we haven't

0:43:02actually done yet but it's on her to-do

0:43:04list for the weekend is to get Aaron

0:43:05finally using one password and and that

0:43:09to me is the right way to handle this

0:43:11but just like you guys said you know

0:43:12making I'm making all these

0:43:13proclamations in a vacuum and I don't

0:43:14know what with smiles dealing with I

0:43:16don't know what they're up against but

0:43:17taking away what's already there in that

0:43:20in that they're saying that they're not

0:43:21going to support dropbox and other sink

0:43:23methods man that it's hard not to feel

0:43:26burned by that and even if you're

0:43:28sympathetic to them it's hard not to

0:43:31feel burned but you wonder with it's

0:43:33like intentional like will see in the

0:43:34coming days if they change course

0:43:36because it could have been like

0:43:361password it was essentially expanded

0:43:38their market like I said we have all

0:43:40these Yammer's their product we think

0:43:43some of these customers would be willing

0:43:44to pay more because it is really

0:43:47important to them so if we give them

0:43:48this one extra feature this family

0:43:50singing or whatever we're gonna leave

0:43:51all the existing customers with the

0:43:52product they have it's the same product

0:43:54it's not you know we're not excluding

0:43:55them we just want to expand the market

0:43:57with this new little bump in our little

0:43:58you know the blob that is the market put

0:44:00another little bump that's and these

0:44:02people are willing to pay five bucks a

0:44:03month everyone else keeps what they've

0:44:04got

0:44:05but we can we can extract more money

0:44:07from our customers for certain subset of

0:44:09the customers by giving them a little

0:44:10bit more and charging them a little bit

0:44:12more it totally see if that's what

0:44:14texture was trying to do doesn't seem

0:44:15like you did it well because what they

0:44:16did instead was took the blob that is

0:44:18their market sliced off most of it and

0:44:22then the remaining parts is the people

0:44:24who are willing to pay fifty dollars a

0:44:25year right if that's not what they

0:44:27intended then you'll see scrambling a

0:44:30week now all we've changed our mind in

0:44:31fact you can use text expander sync with

0:44:33sex offender sex with dropbox thinking

0:44:35or you can use text expander six with no

0:44:36syncing for the old price or whatever

0:44:38like will see like I'm basing my you

0:44:41know looking at what this move as if

0:44:44this is intentional because we all see

0:44:45the effects that it's happening i think

0:44:46they see the effects that is having if

0:44:48that is an intentional i think they will

0:44:50backpedal and say we need to what we

0:44:53really meant to do was actually just get

0:44:55more money from the people who use it a

0:44:56lot but not lose all those other

0:44:57customers because we totally need them

0:44:58so we'll see if they change their mind

0:45:01based on you know the first week or two

0:45:02of you know sales and returning and

0:45:05complaints about it but I think both of

0:45:07those strategies are viable like one is

0:45:09not made one of them makes Casey said I

0:45:11mean you know obviously if you're in the

0:45:12market that gets cut off by that

0:45:13strategy can be you know not good for

0:45:15you but in the end it doesn't you know

0:45:18from the company's perspective it

0:45:19doesn't matter except for perhaps

0:45:21long-term brand loyalty decisions but

0:45:22again if you're going towards the high

0:45:24end or enterprise the enterprise people

0:45:25may love you even more if you add all

0:45:27the super power user features like hell

0:45:29yeah i'll pay fifty dollars a year oh

0:45:30you know this is how I make my living

0:45:31sure you know

0:45:33sign me up and especially if they they

0:45:35realized after year that this means new

0:45:37versions come out regularly bugs get

0:45:38fixed

0:45:39you know better whatever but with as

0:45:43with all things you can't assume

0:45:44omniscient some on the part of either

0:45:47party here so it's it's it's possible

0:45:49that they just didn't anticipate the

0:45:51backlash and I guess we'll find out in

0:45:53the next week shows or the week after we

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0:47:37doorstep

0:47:38you know you could like you can see who

0:47:40it is and decide to pretend you're not

0:47:42at home all while you just sit in your

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0:47:46that's what you took away from this was

0:47:48like yes is really is in a blur i do you

0:47:51know how to get up from your couch you

0:47:52can just pick up your phone and go now

0:47:54I'm not answering that

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0:48:29ATP now thanks a lot

0:48:31this this actually segues into our our

0:48:34next our next topic slightly unbeknownst

0:48:36to Marco although he's probably the one

0:48:38who wrote it there because i think this

0:48:40is a good time to bring this up with me

0:48:42having my ipod stolen out of my car by

0:48:45the way speaking a lot of having sold my

0:48:46car when they got to having you guys

0:48:47were talking about your your various

0:48:49ways of trying to play folder show love

0:48:51mp3 is like it's 1994 and you're in your

0:48:53cars

0:48:54why do neither one of you do what I had

0:48:58been doing which is take one of the many

0:49:00old iOS devices that is no longer useful

0:49:03for anything and connect it through USB

0:49:06to your car and just leave it in there

0:49:08permanently aside from the fact you're

0:49:09afraid it's going to storm out of your

0:49:10car setting that aside if you do that

0:49:13you will get all the things you talked

0:49:15about like it you know real interface to

0:49:17playing things hopefully reasonable

0:49:19album art not worried about it actually

0:49:21doing things alphabetical if you park

0:49:24your car close enough to get Wi-Fi from

0:49:25your house and your thing has you know

0:49:27itunes in the cloud things think you

0:49:29won't even have to bring the thing back

0:49:31into put your music on your new musical

0:49:32just think to it you know silently when

0:49:34you drive your car home and just let it

0:49:36sit there right

0:49:37that seems like it would solve all your

0:49:39problems assuming you had a place to

0:49:40store the connected ipod and all that is

0:49:43is that not something you guys are

0:49:45interested now definitely i don't want

0:49:47another thing to manage i would either

0:49:48use the stuff that's built into the car

0:49:51like i was describing earlier because i

0:49:53actually don't have a problem with it or

0:49:55if it's not already in my car then I

0:49:57would just use bluetooth on my phone but

0:49:59what are you managing those likes it

0:50:00literally my thing is just it's plugged

0:50:02in in in a closed compartment and I

0:50:04never even see it and like I said now

0:50:06that that I park within Wi-Fi range of

0:50:08my house I it gets my new music on if i

0:50:11buy a new song that song is on my car

0:50:13like the next time I Drive it isn't

0:50:15there is nothing to manage you don't

0:50:16need to recharge it because it charges

0:50:18when you drive your car get all the

0:50:20features that you would expect like on

0:50:21my on-screen display showing the artist

0:50:23album the whole thing it even shows you

0:50:25know unicode characters and the title is

0:50:26correctly like everything just works and

0:50:28this is a honda accord i'm assuming all

0:50:29your fancy BMWs intestines have the same

0:50:31ability

0:50:32the only downside is you got to have an

0:50:34iOS device which is way larger than the

0:50:36little tiny thumb drive that mark eyes

0:50:37so it turns out

0:50:39Tesla actually does not support ipod USB

0:50:42interfaces

0:50:43Oh like the only support either USB

0:50:45folders like USB file browser or

0:50:48Bluetooth the preemptively spotting the

0:50:50Apple car gonna compete with us APPL

0:50:54rumored to be could possibly in the

0:50:56future competing with us no USB support

0:50:58for ipods I mean it also could be

0:51:00possible that like you know either a

0:51:01they haven't gotten to it yet because

0:51:03they're a little bit new at or be they

0:51:05just probably think like you know the

0:51:06future is Bluetooth anyway for you know

0:51:09for that kind of role for most people so

0:51:11it'sit's kind of it probably isn't worth

0:51:12the trouble to build that into a car

0:51:14that like you started the media system

0:51:16platform only a few years ago

0:51:18yeah I mean I couldn't you could do also

0:51:20the same thing like my ipod that I have

0:51:21plugged into the USB interface i could

0:51:23leave it plugged into USB just for

0:51:25charging purposes and then had that

0:51:26connect your bluetooth

0:51:28yeah like anyway anyway that sort of

0:51:30that derail the the the topics related

0:51:32to the ring doorbell is recording the

0:51:34show notes here who presumably written

0:51:36by Marco Marco recent experiments and

0:51:38home automation surveillance and general

0:51:41madness i'm adding that last part

0:51:43yeah this was my grab bag of topics that

0:51:44we were not if we're at a time or two

0:51:46topics today we wanted something else

0:51:47and you moved it out what you didn't run

0:51:49out i actually I shuffle shuffle it

0:51:51upwards because i see i see your tweets

0:51:53about like I doesn't can anyone tell me

0:51:56how to find a replacement for 3-way

0:51:59light switches that will respond to like

0:52:01voice commands to my amazon echo and it

0:52:03sounds like you're really you're really

0:52:04going off the deep end as as is your way

0:52:06so i actually don't wanna hear about it

0:52:08ok so let me let me preface by saying i

0:52:11think i said this last week that you

0:52:13know earlier in in I forget what it was

0:52:16but there was our Thanksgiving episode

0:52:18or whether it was after the new year

0:52:19sometime we were in a positive mood and

0:52:23we were expressing what we're going to

0:52:24do in the future this year whatever and

0:52:26one of the things I said was I because i

0:52:30had been having trouble getting excited

0:52:33about a lot of stuff coming out of apple

0:52:34recently I decided that you know I

0:52:37wanted to start exploring more outside

0:52:40of the apple ecosystem you know just

0:52:41other stuff other platforms other

0:52:43exciting things happening technology

0:52:45that aren't from apple and so that the

0:52:48test obviously was it was contributing

0:52:50to that quite a bit but also i've

0:52:53recently said you know what let me let

0:52:55me explore

0:52:56past a serie and everyone saying the

0:52:59Amazon echo is really good so you know

0:53:01what the heck I'll try you are our

0:53:03friends have fun for a while and

0:53:04whatever whatever we're over there i

0:53:06always think like you know that that's

0:53:08kind of really awesome i do you talk to

0:53:10it and plays good music and agency and

0:53:13like the voice activation was really

0:53:14good and fast and always worked and I

0:53:18think that's kind of incredible like you

0:53:20being because i'm not gonna try meant

0:53:22nothing about Apple but she'll be

0:53:23accustomed to serie a for Apple in the

0:53:27Amazon echo by comparison is extremely

0:53:30fast to recognize what you're saying and

0:53:32can recognize it at a seemingly much

0:53:34higher success rate from for me at least

0:53:37an enemy in the environment I've seen it

0:53:39and even in in conditions that you would

0:53:41think would be hostile like while it's

0:53:43already loudly playing music in a loud

0:53:45room and you are 12 feet away it can

0:53:48still recognize you

0:53:49most of the time so that it's actually

0:53:51surprisingly good if you're if you've

0:53:54only ever used Syria as like your voice

0:53:57control baseline it really is

0:53:59surprisingly good i would say in many

0:54:02ways substantially better probably not

0:54:04every way but in the ways that i use it

0:54:06for it is substantially better anyway so

0:54:08we got an echo

0:54:09I decided you know what else can this

0:54:10thing do and it turns out when you're

0:54:12not in you know similar to what is

0:54:14covered with USB sticks when you're not

0:54:16in the apple ecosystem nothing cost any

0:54:19money you can get a ridiculous number of

0:54:23like smart objects hey things things

0:54:26with ports or Wi-Fi in them for almost

0:54:28nothing so for instance one of the

0:54:29things because got was amazon dash

0:54:31buttons look at its this it seems

0:54:34ridiculous for five dollars which

0:54:37becomes a five-dollar credit once you

0:54:38use it so for basically free you get a

0:54:41little button the size of like a

0:54:42keychain with a sticky back and it's it

0:54:45comes assigned to a certain brands

0:54:47products things like Charmaine for for

0:54:50your toilet paper or bounty paper towels

0:54:53or you know razor blades or whatever

0:54:55it's there just a button there's no

0:54:57screen just a single button you stick

0:54:59this wherever you stories household

0:55:00objects and when you are running low you

0:55:03hit the button it automatically orders

0:55:06more of that thing whatever you've

0:55:07assigned to order from that brand

0:55:09from amazon and it comes in a couple

0:55:11days so I have 14 paper towels and have

0:55:15a4 paper we don't let me interrupt you

0:55:17right there a genuine genuine question

0:55:19yes if they're like eighty four

0:55:21different flavors of Charmin so to speak

0:55:23do you like specify what one it is that

0:55:27you want yes and you can you can go on

0:55:29the site and you can get with this dash

0:55:31button there's a little green thing it

0:55:33looks like a banner ad and so you missed

0:55:35the first few times but it's not a bit

0:55:37there is little agreement right below

0:55:39the item description nice dash button

0:55:40and it's like you know

0:55:41view what this button can order and you

0:55:44can click on and I'll show you before

0:55:46even buy you can see like make sure that

0:55:48it can order the things you know the

0:55:49version that you use and then you set

0:55:52and when you set it up its kind of free

0:55:53so it's it's a little button thing with

0:55:56no screen and with some kind of you know

0:55:59long-lasting battery and it's a

0:56:00permanent installous I think battery

0:56:02it's a Wi-Fi device so it has to be

0:56:04pretty hefty like lithium something or

0:56:05other battery in there anyway how do you

0:56:08prepare the thing

0:56:09normally these things that you know many

0:56:11of these smart objects they will create

0:56:12their own little ad hoc Wi-Fi network

0:56:14and so you launch the app on your phone

0:56:15you join your phone to the stupid things

0:56:17Wi-Fi network and then it auto config

0:56:20with the app and tell you know the app

0:56:21tells it your real Wi-Fi networks

0:56:23password and then you said you click

0:56:25back over and sucks huge you know clunky

0:56:27process that I hope Apple gives some

0:56:30kind of method of improving with like

0:56:31you know multi-mode Wi-Fi something i'm

0:56:35pretty sure things that exist anyway you

0:56:37know those kind of a temporary ad-hoc

0:56:39Wi-Fi networks don't take over your main

0:56:41Wi-Fi whatever they're called that like

0:56:42you know camera thanks used to anyway

0:56:44please Apple add those things anyway so

0:56:47that the way the the Amazon dash buttons

0:56:50work his you you place the button next

0:56:54to your phone and the phone like emits

0:56:56like static pulses out of the speaker

0:56:58via audio and the dash button has a

0:57:00little microphone it and just like

0:57:02communicates by the static pulses the

0:57:04Wi-Fi information to the dash button and

0:57:07Angela right after a few seconds equals

0:57:09a little weird seconds like alright done

0:57:11just so cool it and all this was for

0:57:13five dollars i know this is all just

0:57:15shameless consumerism to honor the God

0:57:18of amazon and make you buy even more

0:57:20things from amazon but

0:57:22that is still remarkable from a

0:57:23technology perspective that works and

0:57:25costs nothing like that's kind of

0:57:27incredible i want I really looked into

0:57:30recently and I think this is just

0:57:32fascinating

0:57:33somebody has like reverse-engineered how

0:57:36all of this works and there's actually a

0:57:39a node module called no dash button that

0:57:43you can use to have a dash button

0:57:46instead of calling phoning home to

0:57:48amazon it it just tells a node server

0:57:51running on a local network the button

0:57:53has been pressed and so what I was

0:57:55really looking into but I couldn't quite

0:57:56make it work each just the other side of

0:57:59it work

0:57:59I really wanted to buy a dash button and

0:58:03then stick it on like the bedside table

0:58:05and then have that call down to my

0:58:09internet-connected garage door opener my

0:58:12Chamberlain Mike you and if the garage

0:58:14doors open close it so that my bedtime

0:58:17routine would just be to smack this dash

0:58:19button that has nothing to do with

0:58:20amazon anymore and if the garage doors

0:58:22open it will automatically close I could

0:58:24never get it to work but I think it's

0:58:26really cool and fascinating that people

0:58:28took this five-dollar device and are now

0:58:30like hacking it such that it can be used

0:58:32for something entirely different and i

0:58:34just think that's fascinating super cool

0:58:36and is for reasons like this that i

0:58:38really want to start figuring out how

0:58:40the hell raspberry PI's work and what

0:58:42that's all about

0:58:43yeah my question about these buttons is

0:58:45like the reason i would donate can with

0:58:48them was like is this like a joke is

0:58:49like an april fools joke you know like

0:58:51they cannot like last year or the year

0:58:52before whatever just seemed so

0:58:53ridiculous that you're gonna have talked

0:58:55about a you know

0:58:56Alton Brown angering unit ask her you

0:58:59can't have a big shiny red button in

0:59:01your house and all this other paper

0:59:03towels my fear and wide never want to

0:59:05have the thing and it's like I'm the

0:59:06same type person who was always afraid

0:59:07to enable 1-click ordering is I know

0:59:10that I and everyone else in my house

0:59:12would forget when we get that stupid

0:59:14button

0:59:14who knows all we need paper towels and i

0:59:16will click the button but i have no idea

0:59:17if someone who came into the same room

0:59:19and came to the same conclusion an hour

0:59:20ago and now we have two orders of paper

0:59:22towels coming know someone else did you

0:59:24know it turns out they thought of that

0:59:25once you want somebody hits it it

0:59:27doesn't except in order for another one

0:59:29until that one has been delivered right

0:59:32that's pretty good

0:59:33everything I was thinking like it but

0:59:34while rate-limiting

0:59:35the bouncing and here's here's the other

0:59:37secret thing like if it doesn't order

0:59:40until it's delivered but you have small

0:59:41children your house you figure out how

0:59:43these buttons work they wait for a

0:59:44package to be delivered and they go

0:59:45around the house impressive real button

0:59:47like just you know because essentially

0:59:48is applying it is allowing anyone with

0:59:50physical access to your home to spend

0:59:53your money

0:59:54yeah but it's not like ordering an ipod

0:59:55like it's you know what happens pretty

0:59:57cheap it's a bad example and you just

0:59:59wait for the ipod

0:59:59wait for the ipod

1:00:00you got the iphone button just let me

1:00:01just put it we'll put in in your house

1:00:03and groupers houses the keynotes over

1:00:05you slam your fist on the button and

1:00:06then there's one that's the new method

1:00:10rolling as you go visit somebody doesn't

1:00:12like when they're when they're like you

1:00:13know in the other room you go pushing

1:00:15all the buttons to order all the paper

1:00:16towels and so this is these dash buttons

1:00:18these are entirely independent of the

1:00:19echo other than the fact they're all

1:00:20made by amazon hook up your amazon

1:00:22account right yeah I was just really

1:00:24decide that you know I'm now like giving

1:00:26amazon the benefit of the doubt and

1:00:27trying some of the stuff that they're

1:00:29doing that's all crazy and after the

1:00:32fire phone and after some of the really

1:00:34crappy fire tablets it's easy to write

1:00:37off amazon's hardware efforts but

1:00:39they're getting better and they're kind

1:00:41of getting remarkably better at some

1:00:43things and I I think writing them off

1:00:45completely is not wise because you know

1:00:49they are going to keep making a lot of

1:00:50duds I'm sure but there but not

1:00:52everything they make it up and some of

1:00:53them exactly pretty cool anyway so yeah

1:00:57so I guess I have some some dunkin Wemo

1:01:00switch to outlets that amusing to switch

1:01:03some lamps

1:01:04yeah can you explain that to me because

1:01:05I understood that you were trying to

1:01:07make it so you could say words into the

1:01:08air and cause lights to go on yet i

1:01:10don't know anything that connects those

1:01:12things other than the Amazon echo is

1:01:14listening to you and then presumably

1:01:15what happens after that the amazon i

1:01:17hears you and what does it do what does

1:01:18it communicate with is this like an open

1:01:20standard layout amazon products don't

1:01:22understand this world

1:01:23honestly I don't know that much about it

1:01:25I I haven't looked that much into it you

1:01:27know you go and i was on site that tells

1:01:28you like here's the all the things that

1:01:30work with the echo some of the things

1:01:32require like a smart devices hub some of

1:01:35them don't have been only getting the

1:01:36ones that don't so far because why not

1:01:38about a couple of mos switched outlets

1:01:40because I there the better way to do

1:01:42lighting is if you can swing it to use

1:01:45Wi-Fi light bulbs like life xor philips

1:01:48hue that kind of thing I haven't used

1:01:50any of those yet because the lifx bulbs

1:01:53are too large to fit into the lamps in

1:01:54question and the philips hue bulbs are

1:01:58not bright enough and i like nice bright

1:02:00bulbs and even leds always to get the

1:02:02ones that are like 200 watt equivalent

1:02:03rather than the most the more common

1:02:05ones are more like a 60 watt equivalent

1:02:06so they're just not right now anyway so

1:02:09the way i do this is I keep my fancy

1:02:11bulbs and I guess which the outlets

1:02:13philanthropist

1:02:13two again I don't know any other system

1:02:15works but the way belkin's Wemo thing

1:02:17works is all just local Wi-Fi and

1:02:20there's probably a way to come to a web

1:02:22service I don't really care

1:02:23there is but right now doing a local

1:02:25Wi-Fi only so you use their apt to like

1:02:28configure the things using the stupid

1:02:29like join the Wi-Fi network thing but

1:02:31then once configured the echo to talk to

1:02:34it directly so you know the echo just

1:02:35had support for whatever local protocol

1:02:37that uses over the local Wi-Fi network

1:02:39and then you you go to the alexa up to

1:02:41configure the echo it shows all your

1:02:43compatible devices and you can create

1:02:45groups so you can see like to turn off

1:02:47all lamps and it will and it will end it

1:02:50just says okay and turn them all off and

1:02:51that's it sorry for anybody whose life

1:02:53is turned off

1:02:54it's really cool like it get it was

1:02:56really cool about it is that it's fast

1:02:59enough and it works enough of the time

1:03:01that it's actually comedian so part of

1:03:04my nightly routine use your cell your

1:03:05garage like trying to like trying to

1:03:06eliminate steps for nightly routine part

1:03:09of my daily routine is you know we which

1:03:11are watching TV and I whatever so I go

1:03:13around locking all the doors turning off

1:03:15all the lights taking the taking hops

1:03:18out we know one last time in the

1:03:19backyard and more lights go on and off

1:03:20going off and coming Lok Lak any step i

1:03:23can remove from that process will save

1:03:25me like 15 seconds a day and yet it's

1:03:28stupid to be talking about 15 seconds a

1:03:30day and you know this is obviously a

1:03:31position of like first-world privilege

1:03:33here but that's convenient and when

1:03:35everything is so cheap it its it's

1:03:38actually kind of compelling I've

1:03:39effectively cut 30 seconds out of my

1:03:42nightly routine just by automated my

1:03:44switches and being able to tell the echo

1:03:46turn everything off wants the Amazon

1:03:48echo tell my children eight thousand

1:03:50times to brush to think that their

1:03:51pajamas on because i'm able to stay at

1:03:54amazon echo do the bed down routine an

1:03:56Amazon echo will say you guys have your

1:03:59amazon yet have you brush your teeth

1:04:00every Rush do you have your amazon and

1:04:03you find them in their room an hour

1:04:04later playing with Lego without their

1:04:06pajamas on have you put your pajamas on

1:04:07and brush teeth that's the service I

1:04:09need you could probably get up with you

1:04:12know I have tea tea or something

1:04:13I'm i bet you that there's something

1:04:15like I mean the thing is like it and

1:04:17this is this is why I I really been

1:04:19joined the echo and why I I do worry for

1:04:22apples presence or lack thereof in this

1:04:24market in order to make this market

1:04:26succeed

1:04:27you know in order to get what makes the

1:04:28echo so good is a combination of having

1:04:32what seems to be a pretty awesome solid

1:04:35big data web service behind it which is

1:04:38not something apples good at you know

1:04:39Apple can do things like you know

1:04:41keeping notifications running and

1:04:43running when it comes to the kind of web

1:04:46service that uses big data and AI type

1:04:49stuff Apple is not as competitive as

1:04:52other entrance in the market and and it

1:04:54seems it maybe that will change over

1:04:56time but they're just not there and

1:04:58they've been not there for so long after

1:05:00be after began to matter that it does

1:05:02seem like they're not capable of it or

1:05:04at least don't prioritize it you know it

1:05:06seems like this is the kind of problem

1:05:08that other companies Google Facebook

1:05:10Amazon just do big data services better

1:05:14than apple does and what also makes it

1:05:16so powerful is all this integration with

1:05:19their party stuff and so Apple has home

1:05:21kit but home kit is is a much less

1:05:24successful program i think then then

1:05:26what it needs to be

1:05:28where's the echo doesn't really care

1:05:30like the echo is kind of all-inclusive

1:05:31it'll work with everything that we

1:05:32talked briefly about this on unconnected

1:05:35this weekend relay they were they were

1:05:37they were saying that there's some kind

1:05:38of like hardware requirement for home

1:05:40kit devices and then the belkin kind of

1:05:42balking at it

1:05:43amazon doesn't really care i worked with

1:05:44everybody and like Siri launch in twenty

1:05:46eleven it is 2016 there is still no

1:05:50sirree API there is no way for third

1:05:53parties to integrate with Siri at all

1:05:55the echo comes out like not that long

1:05:58ago what like year ago last June

1:06:00something's on almost a year ago it is

1:06:01already full of third-party integrations

1:06:04there's an API for a lot of what it can

1:06:07do not everything there's still no music

1:06:08API looks at which means i can make

1:06:10overcast for it yet but I'm hoping there

1:06:12will be soon so that it has but it has

1:06:15tons of integration with all these

1:06:17third-party things anybody can go and

1:06:19make a speech response API to it and it

1:06:22integrates with all this different

1:06:23hardware from all these different

1:06:25vendors amazon I feel like they're in a

1:06:28better position that Apple is to to

1:06:32really take over this kind of thing

1:06:34because this is so dependent on both the

1:06:36big data web service and also tons of

1:06:39third-party integration

1:06:40yeah apple had the foresight to you know

1:06:43to purchase the you know the sea

1:06:44research project company or whatever

1:06:46they were like the day that they

1:06:47understood very early on that something

1:06:51like this could add value to their

1:06:52products and you know my friend when

1:06:54they bought them but obviously was

1:06:55before it was actually released publicly

1:06:56released to the public with the

1:06:59exception of google like they don't know

1:07:01if they were in the lead next Google but

1:07:03they were at the very least seemingly

1:07:04neck-and-neck with google in terms of we

1:07:06recognize this is going to be important

1:07:08thing for the future and maybe your

1:07:09thing is kind of crappy when it launches

1:07:10series certainly was

1:07:12but at least you know at least we're not

1:07:15ignoring this market like in fact we're

1:07:17out ahead of a lot of our competitors

1:07:18but like Marco set like and then what

1:07:21happened to be like the mac pro all over

1:07:22again

1:07:23well we'll make Siri better and Cirie

1:07:25certainly has gotten better but there's

1:07:27no reason Apple couldn't have done

1:07:29something like Amazon echo years and

1:07:32years ago because they had like there

1:07:33and google has been expanding google now

1:07:35and did you know to make it much more

1:07:38sophisticated and complicated in Syria

1:07:40and we even have like just random apps

1:07:41like this third-party hound application

1:07:43that Merlin was raving about a little

1:07:44while ago like like lots of other

1:07:46companies are you know it's it's not

1:07:48early days anymore everyone's like Oh

1:07:50some kind of intelligent agency you can

1:07:52talk is basically like speed recognition

1:07:53has as kind of cross de vaguely good

1:07:56enough barrier and an understanding of

1:07:57speech and breaking it down into meaning

1:07:59and figure out what you mean not just

1:08:00like translate into text doing a Google

1:08:02search or whatever you know that's

1:08:04getting more sophisticated and it just

1:08:06takes a little bit more stuff to put it

1:08:07together in two ways that allow like the

1:08:11community essentially community of like

1:08:12nerds and hackers to come up with more

1:08:14uses this things like that was like oh

1:08:16and also definitely seems like much more

1:08:17you know nerd you know hacker friendly

1:08:21if someone who wants to just toy with it

1:08:22and figure out what kind of cool things

1:08:24to do with an animal lecture whatever

1:08:25build whatever on you want is a pretty

1:08:27open protocol you can reverse-engineer

1:08:28it like just go down as they don't know

1:08:30like that you know their approaches like

1:08:32this new stuff and see what sticks right

1:08:34Apple's just totally absence marketing

1:08:36use that makes sense because apple

1:08:37doesn't make sort of like Tinker

1:08:39products for people who just want to

1:08:40hack on things and you know I've ever

1:08:41want to have this product would be like

1:08:43no no

1:08:44it has to be beautiful and elegant and

1:08:46integrated in blood with the end result

1:08:48is they just aren't in the market doll

1:08:49or know what you know they do home kit

1:08:51and said we have a strict requirements

1:08:52because you're your products must meet

1:08:54the stringent standards that we have

1:08:55apple and blah blah in the meantime

1:08:57amazon just like running off with it and

1:08:59they're gonna wake up one day and say

1:09:00you know we we could have had

1:09:02substantial chunk of that market and we

1:09:05just we just waited too long for for for

1:09:07perfection and didn't you know to start

1:09:09releasing and iterating again that's not

1:09:11the Apple way to do it but I feel like

1:09:12in many other Syria was was like that it

1:09:15was like series not gonna be perfect

1:09:16initially but it's important for us to

1:09:17get this out there because we feel like

1:09:19in the future you telling your phone to

1:09:21do something is a feature that we need

1:09:23to happen they were right about that

1:09:24every every cell phone you by now has

1:09:26some feature where you can speak to it

1:09:27and have it do something either but you

1:09:29while you're driving to tell it to play

1:09:30a song or if you're just lazy and don't

1:09:32want to go find an icon and tap

1:09:34something just to run a search for

1:09:35whatever they all have that an apple

1:09:37recognize that not saying they have to

1:09:39be in the Amazon echo market but I'm

1:09:41just saying like vr we also Mapple

1:09:43secretly doing things behind the scenes

1:09:44i hope they don't stay secret for too

1:09:46long either

1:09:46if BR turns out not to be a bust apple

1:09:50doesn't want to just be sitting there

1:09:51waiting for their perfect entry in that

1:09:53market either and I think like the watch

1:09:54as much as we've all talked about it and

1:09:57had complaints about it i think it was

1:09:58important for Apple to do a watch even

1:10:01if the watch they did has problems

1:10:03rather than saying no we're not entirely

1:10:05sure we figure out every aspect of what

1:10:07makes a watch good like the only way

1:10:08you're going to figure out is to make a

1:10:09product right there that's that's in you

1:10:11can't you can't hold back from it and

1:10:13how they're making a freaking car

1:10:15surely the bacon amazon echo type

1:10:18competitor and I think they could do a

1:10:20reasonably good job for it if only

1:10:22because it would force them like Morgan

1:10:24was saying force them to work on their

1:10:25back end whereas Cirie has like the hell

1:10:27those presentations like look we're

1:10:28using these open source you know data

1:10:31processing backends for Syria and we're

1:10:33all impressed by that we're talking at

1:10:34conferences like Siri force them to do

1:10:36that because it wasn't simple enough to

1:10:39use whatever they were using before was

1:10:40complicated

1:10:42was it make those someone just wrote an

1:10:43entire room you having a product like

1:10:45Siri forces them to get better that

1:10:47stuff having a product like Amazon echo

1:10:49would also force them to get better this

1:10:51type of thing as home kit should be

1:10:53forcing them to as well but if they're

1:10:54if they're going into the same situation

1:10:56where there

1:10:57making you know very onerous demands of

1:10:59the third parties and the result is a

1:11:01few third-party products they're you

1:11:04know they're they're not they're not

1:11:05winning that battle so it's kind of it's

1:11:08kind of disappointing and with amazon

1:11:10their challenge is always going to be

1:11:11easy to do the beginning part which is

1:11:14very open and will try to things like

1:11:15those people go in

1:11:16how do you develop I've been waiting

1:11:18person I don't know if enough people who

1:11:19have an echo that I'm like I'm kind of

1:11:21interested in that I'd like to try but i

1:11:22would like to wait for the echo to come

1:11:24out the the one that is nicer and

1:11:26smaller and faster and more reliable and

1:11:27has more features i know they came out

1:11:29with a little tiny one that doesn't have

1:11:30the speakers and stuff like that but I

1:11:31want like the full-fledged echo version

1:11:332 if Amazon doesn't make an echo version

1:11:362 for 3 years I will have you know they

1:11:39will be again pulling a mac pro it's

1:11:40like you were right there what why did

1:11:42you stop

1:11:43I don't think they will I think they

1:11:45will continue to iterate just look at

1:11:46how many freaking candles I found out

1:11:47with there's about to be another one

1:11:49they're hyping up next week I I

1:11:51volcanoes to mail you and they're having

1:11:52up next we're gonna we're gonna make

1:11:54another one that's that's even thinner

1:11:55awesome

1:11:56yeah and we have no idea how many

1:11:57candles they have ever sold because they

1:11:59never put numbers on their graphs but

1:12:00they continue to plug away at that so I

1:12:02fully believe that Amazon will continue

1:12:04to plug away the echo if only because it

1:12:06just has a natural synergy of like make

1:12:08it easier for people to give us money

1:12:10alright thumbs up this is a good product

1:12:12for amazon to make especially since the

1:12:13harbor across don't seem that big it's

1:12:14like it's speaker with Wi-Fi and a whole

1:12:19bunch of microphones and a little bit of

1:12:20software don't make that up the first

1:12:24year alone people with a people

1:12:26accidentally ordering things by saying a

1:12:27alexa by paper towels or whatever your

1:12:30kids are saying when you're not in the

1:12:31room anyway I'm enjoying this thing it's

1:12:34not perfect

1:12:35there's lots of things about it that are

1:12:36that are not perfect but overall it's

1:12:39really cool and I would say if you're on

1:12:41the fence if you if you've been tempted

1:12:43by the echo if you're on the fence just

1:12:45get it just order it now like you won't

1:12:48regret if you if you're already like

1:12:49taking you might enjoy you probably will

1:12:51enjoy it and you should just try it

1:12:52because it really is quite good what is

1:12:56adam said it like so he gets very mad

1:12:58that she doesn't recognize him because

1:13:01he doesn't unsee it well enough that

1:13:03yeah basically he asked her to define

1:13:05words multiply numbers play music

1:13:08convert units of measurement

1:13:10cooking so many things you can do

1:13:12setting timers by voice while cooking is

1:13:15so useful like that's it always

1:13:17urbanites with the Apple watch that with

1:13:18it was so slow and somewhat unreliable

1:13:21to do that because when that works it's

1:13:23so useful it doesn't work enough with

1:13:25the apple stuff but it works all the

1:13:27time with the amazon thing its are you

1:13:29have to push a button like activate Siri

1:13:30if you don't have a Syrian able to

1:13:32basically have to take your dirty you

1:13:34know cooking fingers and touch some iOS

1:13:36device and then have a good loop and

1:13:38figure out do i talk before the blooper

1:13:40does it not matter is not the bloom and

1:13:43then you say set a timer for five

1:13:45minutes and then you wait and then you

1:13:46see and sometimes misunderstands you it

1:13:49seems to me from all the people i know

1:13:50how that goes that you can basically

1:13:52just yell into the air with a reasonable

1:13:54expectation that it's going to get you

1:13:55and if it doesn't yell it again and

1:13:57you're not waking whatever waiting

1:13:58verbal open the echoes plugs in right

1:14:00it's not the battery power

1:14:01yeah that they have won this battery

1:14:02power but it did won the battle the ones

1:14:04battery-powered is is the tap and that

1:14:06one doesn't listen all the time to get

1:14:08to push it to listen

1:14:09yeah that's not good so if you want to

1:14:10be listening all the time you need to

1:14:11plug it is that is that the one thing

1:14:13that I thought that the one that I was

1:14:15thinking of is is like is a very short

1:14:17cylinder it doesn't have it doesn't

1:14:18double is basically a bluetooth speaker

1:14:20that's the dot but great names i'm at

1:14:23the dot does also plug in and always

1:14:25always listening

1:14:26the dot is basically just like the big

1:14:27echo but without the big speaker so it

1:14:30sounds substantially worse if you play

1:14:31music through it and the big echo like

1:14:33as as a speaker is also the bluetooth

1:14:36speaker as a speaker it is merely decent

1:14:39it is not an amazing speaker like it

1:14:41like I have a sonos play one right next

1:14:43to it and the play one is a way better

1:14:46speaker by by a mile

1:14:48you know for like music quality volume

1:14:50tone the universe the sonos system has

1:14:53way better speakers but the Amazon echo

1:14:55is really convenient and that often wins

1:14:58cool our final sponsor tonight is

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1:17:37ap thanks a lot of fresh books trying to

1:17:40think about why Apple Bible is the way

1:17:44it is about third-party integrations if

1:17:46they it's not as if Apple's is all we

1:17:48have to do everything myself almost

1:17:49everything Apple does that has a

1:17:51reasonable place for third parties to be

1:17:54part of it

1:17:55there is a place for it to do it like

1:17:57there-there api's they make a B is for

1:18:00third parties to write software for

1:18:02their platforms they have programs for

1:18:04hardware vendors to make accessories for

1:18:06all their various hardware devices they

1:18:08have especially for hardware they have

1:18:09compliance programs you have to fulfill

1:18:11these requirements in terms of size and

1:18:13voltage and reliability and you know

1:18:15whatever like all sensible things

1:18:17especially in the hardware around

1:18:18there's no shortage of accessories for

1:18:20iOS devices you can buy even for the

1:18:22watches you can buy watchbands you can

1:18:24buy cases for your iOS devices you can

1:18:25buy docs for them

1:18:27keyboards I gave everything that apple

1:18:30sells for its devices there's tons of

1:18:31choices for third parties so it seems

1:18:34like they know how to foster at an open

1:18:37ecosystem of third parties selling

1:18:40things for their products and software

1:18:43application the application front there

1:18:44they're OK at that like you know we

1:18:46talked about the app store and the

1:18:47problems that might have but it's not as

1:18:48if people have the impression that if

1:18:50you buy an Apple product you're stuck

1:18:52with apple software they know lots of

1:18:53ppl makes offer especially for iOS

1:18:55devices and most of those people are not

1:18:57Apple that make them and yet for things

1:19:00like this where they're connecting like

1:19:03to web services or they're sending you

1:19:07to someone else's store or they're

1:19:10integrating with someone else's line of

1:19:12products for your home

1:19:13that seems to be like apples kryptonite

1:19:16like anything having to do with the web

1:19:18certainly anything having to do with

1:19:20money like giving other people money or

1:19:22becoming their customer those seems to

1:19:24be areas that Apple is not willing to

1:19:26sort of open the doors and make

1:19:30connections there precisely the area

1:19:32that you would want anything having to

1:19:33do with home automation or two

1:19:36connectors imagine if apple sold

1:19:37something like this but you couldn't use

1:19:39it to buy things from Amazon Apple is

1:19:42not a retailer physical goods other than

1:19:44on products like it's not it's not

1:19:46technically a competitor to amazon in

1:19:48this way but can you imagine Apple

1:19:52selling products and say oh and had

1:19:54doing the keynote demo and say look how

1:19:56easy it is for me to order new paper

1:19:58towels because they don't care about

1:19:59ordering paper towels and their

1:20:01customers have to order paper towels but

1:20:03they're not going to endorse amazon

1:20:05unless they can extract some money or

1:20:06some deal from amazon or whatever but

1:20:10that would be a perfect third-party

1:20:12integration if they made a product like

1:20:13this and made an open API show your

1:20:15third party would make an integration

1:20:17for their favorite brand of you know

1:20:19Wi-Fi enabled light bulbs or their

1:20:21favorite retailer or a raspberry pi

1:20:23thing or integration with the ring

1:20:25doorbell that we just talked about or

1:20:26whatever those are the things that you

1:20:28have to do if you're going to try to

1:20:31break open this market and be like this

1:20:33or de facto central speaking into the

1:20:36air in the middle of my house hub for

1:20:37home automation and it just seems like

1:20:39Apple and even companies like Nestor

1:20:41stole the idea like no we're going on

1:20:42the whole freaking house and we're going

1:20:44to totally control hardware vendors and

1:20:46they're going to comply to our

1:20:47specifications and in the meantime

1:20:48amazon using the old pc strategy of just

1:20:51working fully open door to help ever the

1:20:52hell you want and we'll just look at it

1:20:54a couple years later and see what worked

1:20:56so far is the only thing that has that

1:20:59any measure of success even though it's

1:21:01a very small measure success just among

1:21:03nerds are willing to pay a hundred

1:21:04eighty bucks to have a wear black

1:21:06cylinder of the house that they can ask

1:21:08how to spell words

1:21:09Apple has always had this part of its

1:21:12like corporate personality and reflected

1:21:14by originally by Steve and and buy you

1:21:17know a lot of people who are still there

1:21:19i think and who are still making

1:21:21important decisions that they've always

1:21:22had this this these parts of their

1:21:24personality where sometimes a little bit

1:21:27too much greed shows and sometimes a

1:21:30little bit too to like control freaky

1:21:33shows if that makes sense and that that

1:21:37often holds these things back

1:21:38so for instance the thirty percent

1:21:41in-app purchase rule on iOS apps one of

1:21:45the reasons why you can't buy amazon

1:21:47books and the kindle app for I for iOS

1:21:50is this rule that like apple won't let

1:21:52amazon selling directly without using a

1:21:53purchase and if using our purchase apple

1:21:55takes thirty percent

1:21:56and that is a very very high commission

1:22:00to take on sales that you're kind of not

1:22:02much of a part of but they do it and it

1:22:05works and it's only in town and you know

1:22:07if you want to be this platform which

1:22:08really matters a lot

1:22:09you basically have to play by those

1:22:10rules or avoid them like Amazon doesn't

1:22:13just don't sell anything there and that

1:22:15kind of attitude you know it goes way

1:22:17beyond that rule you know that kind of

1:22:18attitude also expensive things like 60

1:22:21devices the price hike in the ipad cases

1:22:24that you know Apple has some greed there

1:22:28and is that you know depending on what

1:22:30you know like our discussion earlier

1:22:31about like whether you consider that you

1:22:34know offensive or not or whether it's

1:22:36just business but they they do

1:22:38oftentimes prioritize profitability of

1:22:41things over you know making everyone

1:22:44else happy and that is often good

1:22:46business so i can't really fault them

1:22:47for that but it does hold back certain

1:22:49kinds of advancements from from the

1:22:51products or they're going for an ideal

1:22:52like sometimes they have a vision in

1:22:54their mind of how it's going to look and

1:22:56third parties will describe that vision

1:22:57with the crap that they had where and so

1:22:59that's the other side of it is like is

1:23:00the controlling part of it where Apple's

1:23:03very opinionated in a lot of ways and

1:23:06and very controlling it like so for

1:23:09instance one of the more recent dust-ups

1:23:13around around apples decision making was

1:23:16in the early days of 9.3 they stopped

1:23:19letting the Apple pencil navigate the

1:23:21entire ipad interface so the applicants

1:23:23that came out in November whatever with

1:23:25the ipad pro it could navigate the whole

1:23:27interface for you know its first few

1:23:29months and then in the early betas of

1:23:31nine point whatever 9.3 they removed the

1:23:33ability and it was from you know the the

1:23:36official PR statement was was kind of

1:23:37BSE the what we've heard from from from

1:23:40people who are better informed of the

1:23:42matter is that this is actually an

1:23:43intentional decision because it was not

1:23:45being used the way they thought it

1:23:47should be used they didn't want to be

1:23:48used to navigate the interface they

1:23:50wanted to only be used for like artistic

1:23:51purposes or or you know drawing or

1:23:53whatever it was being it was being used

1:23:55in a way that Apple didn't foresee and

1:23:58didn't think was proper but wasn't

1:24:00really hurting anything and apple almost

1:24:03remove that ability and it was only i

1:24:06think only by a decent amount of public

1:24:10shaming and now cry over this during the

1:24:12beta period that reverse their decision

1:24:15they were being a little too

1:24:17overreaching in their control you know

1:24:19that their desire for control

1:24:21I don't think so true though because

1:24:22there was no obvious reason for them to

1:24:25get rid of it today but what if

1:24:26something's coming in the future that

1:24:28that would conflict with this the the

1:24:31pencil is equivalent to your finger

1:24:33approach that Mike and gray love so much

1:24:37you know it it certainly seems to me

1:24:39like they should have some sort of happy

1:24:40medium like there should be a switch

1:24:42forward or something like that but i

1:24:45think it's it's a little bit it's a

1:24:48little bit bold us to assume they're

1:24:50doing it just to be jerks there they

1:24:52very well could be that they're doing it

1:24:53to set themselves up for something in

1:24:55the future

1:24:55well it might not even you know I don't

1:24:57want to say that that they're being

1:24:58jerks necessarily it's that they're

1:25:00being controlling

1:25:01you know we see a lot of this with a

1:25:02preview to and whenever there's like a

1:25:04whenever there's an app review

1:25:06controversy a lot of times it's because

1:25:08apple doesn't want us to do things a

1:25:11certain way or you know like like with

1:25:13like what happened with the disaster of

1:25:15like very projections around today

1:25:17widgets with calculators and draft and

1:25:20everything else we're like p calc it in

1:25:22this in interview and it's like no well

1:25:24you can't have buttons there could we

1:25:26don't want people to do calculations or

1:25:28to do work in today viewers like okay

1:25:30that's kind of weird and maybe there

1:25:33might have been a technical reason for

1:25:35that but it seemed from what they from

1:25:37Apple statements to the various

1:25:39developers whoever those things that

1:25:40didn't seem like it was a technical

1:25:42limitations seemed like it was just like

1:25:43an ideological thing we know we this is

1:25:45not right they should be using your app

1:25:46for this all this is just to say like

1:25:48there are these these areas in the

1:25:51company that still show these these

1:25:54negative personality traits that i think

1:25:57do hold them back in some ways and

1:25:59sometimes it's the right move but a lot

1:26:01of times it's not sometimes leads to

1:26:03expect to better products but a lot of

1:26:05times it doesn't

1:26:06I brought the ipod and everything

1:26:07because I feel like they do this so well

1:26:09and so many areas like they strike the

1:26:11right balance in terms of you know but

1:26:12the reason we buy their products is

1:26:14there opinionated and we like their

1:26:15opinion if you don't like their opinion

1:26:16by different products right but if you

1:26:17like they're paying you like the fact

1:26:19that you know designed as

1:26:21you know again especially in the

1:26:21hardware carefully designed for the

1:26:24particular look and feel and the

1:26:25features they put in them and just you

1:26:27know the whole the iPhone itself like

1:26:28one is that one is what is the iphone is

1:26:31when do we make a touchscreen that Apple

1:26:33feel like it's good enough for the

1:26:34aspects of like the whole you know that

1:26:36that's how you end up with something

1:26:37like the iphone that you have tastes and

1:26:38opinions and you are controlling about

1:26:40it and you slowly open it up but it if i

1:26:42look at the market of iOS devices

1:26:44especially on the hardware side they're

1:26:46striking such a good balance in terms of

1:26:48having the products they want to have

1:26:50selling accessories that they want to

1:26:53sell but also having this huge ecosystem

1:26:55of accessories from other people every

1:26:58kind of case you could possibly imagine

1:26:59including ones that Apple surely thanks

1:27:01are ugly but they're not forbidding

1:27:03those to be made or forbidding and

1:27:06integration we're not going to let our

1:27:07iphone be docked into this you know

1:27:10docking devices we think it's gross or

1:27:12we don't want it but we don't want you

1:27:14to be able to plug this thing in with

1:27:16the USB cable and control this other

1:27:18things like for the most part within the

1:27:20constraints of their programs they have

1:27:22a hands-off type of attitude you want to

1:27:23make a weird keyboard case that falls

1:27:25onto your iPad six years before we come

1:27:28out with a hardware keyboard for our

1:27:30ipads it's not bluetooth fine we're not

1:27:32gonna be like oh we don't we want to

1:27:33forbid that because we haven't decided

1:27:34whether we're going to do a a keyboard

1:27:36with thing even styluses now we we don't

1:27:38want you to we don't give you a maid for

1:27:40you know iOS stamp of approval on any

1:27:43stylist because we don't want to have a

1:27:45stylist like four years you had this

1:27:46little fake finger Silas's there was a

1:27:48million of them right

1:27:49Apple's willing to just let that go and

1:27:50I think that was to an important thing

1:27:53because it showed them like especially

1:27:55if they selling in their stores boy

1:27:57surprising number of people buy these

1:27:58super terrible you know stylist things

1:28:00that pretend to be fingers maybe there's

1:28:02something to this style thing after all

1:28:03and eventually they can put their own

1:28:04solution which of course didn't have to

1:28:05emulate a finger and was much much

1:28:07better and they did a really good job

1:28:08but that I feel like that falls out of

1:28:11the having a big open market and it's

1:28:13just certain kinds of products they have

1:28:15a blind spot about that with even you

1:28:18can even say Apple TV has that for so

1:28:19many years not having apps on it which

1:28:21just seems crazy because they had

1:28:22learned how important apps are and even

1:28:24now having the apps and having to be

1:28:26limited in all sorts of ways because

1:28:27Apple has an idea of what the TV app

1:28:29should be like and they're necessarily

1:28:30fencing off whole range of possibilities

1:28:33even going

1:28:34down to you know my own particular pet

1:28:36peeves about 24 hurts output or whatever

1:28:37like that's a whole class of

1:28:39applications that could flourish or not

1:28:41on the appletv but because Apple has

1:28:44narrowly defined you you know you get

1:28:45200 megs you download stuff on demand

1:28:47you can have games but you have to

1:28:48support the remote just like they're

1:28:50just a fenced-in so narrowly they're not

1:28:52allowing that ecosystem to expand in the

1:28:56ways that some of their other ecosystems

1:28:58have been allowed to expand its and I

1:29:01think it's just it's just not the right

1:29:02balance like I think that's what we put

1:29:04apples always looking for and what I'm

1:29:06what grapple to do is not to be

1:29:08completely open not to become really

1:29:09close to find the right balance for each

1:29:11product line and it's and the way we see

1:29:13one Apple hasn't found the right

1:29:14balances competitors competitors show us

1:29:17because they say if Apple's dropping the

1:29:19ball here then we can do better and show

1:29:22you something and you look at it after

1:29:24the back near boy apple had all the

1:29:25pieces that all the technology and they

1:29:27just didn't they just didn't do it or

1:29:29they were their own worst enemy and I

1:29:30see that you have the most for every

1:29:32product that Apple does anything to do

1:29:34is sort of the open web and web services

1:29:36not that Apple is against the open web

1:29:38services but it just seems to be a big

1:29:39blind spot for them they don't realize

1:29:41the inherent power in that an Amazon ago

1:29:45I think it's the is the most recent and

1:29:47most glaring example

1:29:48alright thanks 143 sponsors this week

1:29:51betterment ring and fresh books and

1:29:54we'll see you next week

1:29:55now the show is over they didn't even

1:30:01mean to

1:30:02because it was accidental death was

1:30:06accidental

1:30:07John didn't

1:30:09any research Marco and Casey would like

1:30:13because it was accidental was accidental

1:30:17and you can find show know today d p dot

1:30:22and if twitter follow them

1:30:29yes byl ISS so that's Casey list and a

1:30:34co-pay rm20 Marco Arment and our AC

1:30:41Syracuse is

1:30:51what

1:30:56so Tesla came out with the new car which

1:31:03means your model asses effectively old

1:31:05and busted

1:31:06yep totally absolutely no it isn't big

1:31:08as his car is still better than they did

1:31:10pretty good car in so many ways it's

1:31:12better

1:31:13mm so Tesla came out or debuted with the

1:31:16the model 3

1:31:19I like the emphasis on the master plan

1:31:20and the presentation like oh my so many

1:31:22years ago I had this master plan about

1:31:24what we're going to do if you're making

1:31:25a master plan maybe that's the time to

1:31:27come up with like a naming scheme for

1:31:29cars that's simple like someone like you

1:31:32only got three cars can be model 12 and

1:31:34three male B&C you know 468 like there

1:31:38are many possibilities that you could

1:31:40you draw from whatever name them after

1:31:42your favorite cities or whatever but i

1:31:44don't think anyone he drawing of a

1:31:46master plan would be like roadster s x +

1:31:513 like it in your first outing

1:31:54that's ball drop anyway but we don't

1:31:56care about the name right so for those

1:31:58who are not aware this is there they're

1:32:02cheaper sedan their kind of mass-market

1:32:05car i did watch the presentation which

1:32:08was a link in the show notes a seal on

1:32:10it said hey the Roadster was to kind of

1:32:13get really really really rich people to

1:32:16spend money on something stupid and then

1:32:18that would let us bootstrap the S which

1:32:21would let well-to-do people spend money

1:32:24on something that was less stupid which

1:32:26in turn will let us do what we really

1:32:30want to do which is the mass market

1:32:32model 3 and they open pre-orders for the

1:32:36model 3 the day of the announcement but

1:32:39but i think really really early in the

1:32:42morning in whatever your local time was

1:32:44and by the time of the announcement they

1:32:47had over a hundred thousand pre-orders

1:32:48is that right

1:32:49a hundred and ten i think yeah something

1:32:52like that and so the pre-orders you have

1:32:53to put a thousand dollars down but it is

1:32:55refundable so that means a hundred

1:32:58thousand people had given Tesla a

1:33:01thousand dollars apiece and I think

1:33:04they're up to like a quarter million

1:33:05from like that and what's interesting is

1:33:08you know the first half of those people

1:33:09did it sight unseen

1:33:10they knew nothing about the model three

1:33:11other than that it was going to cost me

1:33:12around 40 grand and it should have

1:33:15around the same range model s give or

1:33:18take and then they did the the reveal

1:33:21which it was clear that Apple employees

1:33:26spend a lot of time practicing their

1:33:27presentations not only those in the

1:33:29keynote but those are like dub but

1:33:31because man Elon Musk was not built for

1:33:34this sort of presentation and that's

1:33:35okay i mean but it could use some

1:33:37rehearsal

1:33:38it seemed like you didn't rehearse it

1:33:40once right but the presentation

1:33:43nevertheless was impressive and the

1:33:45model 3 on the whole I like it I think

1:33:49aesthetically it's got some a little bit

1:33:53of problems on the outside I think John

1:33:54takes more issue with the outside than I

1:33:56do on the inside i have major issues but

1:34:00a 40,000 dollar-plus car ish that has

1:34:05200 miles plus ish of range

1:34:09that's pretty damn appealing and so been

1:34:12supposedly they're going to ship the end

1:34:13of next year like this is sounding

1:34:15pretty good i'm definitely interested

1:34:19I wouldn't call this mass marketed I

1:34:20understand the progression like you go

1:34:22from a hundred-thousand-dollar

1:34:22impractical car 270 ready

1:34:25thousand-dollar very practical car to

1:34:2835,000 dollar still pretty practical car

1:34:30like broken no mass market is 25 k where

1:34:34you it's not not that they're doing

1:34:35everything I can like they the batteries

1:34:37cost a lot of money right so they're

1:34:38building a big factor whatever the drive

1:34:40might price down like eventually you

1:34:42would expect that test was still in

1:34:43business 10 years from now that they

1:34:45will have something in the honda civic

1:34:47category or whatever so they're working

1:34:48their way down i like the progression

1:34:50like what they're going as for the

1:34:52specifics of the product that I was

1:34:54never really impressed with the Roadster

1:34:55because it's just the you know what he

1:34:58called a lotus lotus elise yeah yeah but

1:35:01you gotta do what you gotta do i never i

1:35:03I you know it's it was a sort of a

1:35:05minimum viable product type thing but as

1:35:08a car was like alright fine whatever

1:35:10PS i was in generally impressed by the

1:35:12styling because i think the overall

1:35:13shape of the car is good that into the

1:35:14details very right but practically

1:35:17speaking have

1:35:18both written in Model S's and driven one

1:35:22it's a good car like we talk about this

1:35:24more like it's not it's not just a good

1:35:25electric car it's a good car I mean can

1:35:27you imagine well it better be for the

1:35:28price you get but they successfully made

1:35:30a good car which is no small feat

1:35:31because not a lot of new car companies

1:35:33have come out and made a good car in our

1:35:35lifetimes right and it seemed to have

1:35:39enough of the all the components

1:35:41together that even if you have a

1:35:44complaint about certain small areas that

1:35:46it's not a big deal i totally expect the

1:35:48model 3 to the same thing to be good and

1:35:50all the same ways that the S is good

1:35:51because you know that they can use the

1:35:53same foundation battery electric motor

1:35:55wheel suspension steering everything it

1:35:59I see no reason to believe that those

1:36:02aspects of the three won't be just as

1:36:04good as the model is the only place

1:36:06you're saving any money is I've imagined

1:36:07his cars smaller lighter has less

1:36:09batteries in it and so that's how you

1:36:11and they're made in the biggest factor

1:36:13in economies of scale of all the sorts

1:36:15of reasons why why does this car costs

1:36:17less than the model s mostly it's

1:36:18because they're getting better at

1:36:20building these cars and have the big

1:36:21factory building the batteries and

1:36:23there's fewer of them and it's smaller

1:36:24and all the stuff but I can imagine for

1:36:26instance the interior of the model 3

1:36:28giving the model s the reason will run

1:36:30for his money mostly because the model

1:36:31is not super luxurious to begin with but

1:36:34like that's not where the money is in

1:36:35these cars like the minus all the

1:36:36freaking battery and just you know

1:36:38general materials and assembly like

1:36:41electric motors aren't super expensive

1:36:42and the grand scheme of things certainly

1:36:43not compared to an internal combustion

1:36:45engine where I think the three falls

1:36:47down for me is I feel like it should it

1:36:50had the opportunity to learn from the

1:36:52s-class and exceeded in all of the few

1:36:55areas where it falls down so is the

1:36:57interior going to be better than the s

1:36:58probably not

1:37:00design-wise having that big screen in

1:37:02the middle doesn't strike me as a we

1:37:05learned a lot from the the model s and

1:37:09so now we know how to make a better

1:37:10interior other than the fact they

1:37:12learned that bigger screens are better

1:37:13but my biggest complaint about the

1:37:15outside is what they've done with the

1:37:16front end treatment and in some respects

1:37:20it's obvious what they're going for it's

1:37:21like hey guys we don't have to have a

1:37:24place where air goes into the front of

1:37:26our car because there's not a giant

1:37:27exploding internal combustion engineer

1:37:29that we have to blow air on

1:37:31was it overheats we don't have to do

1:37:32that so we should not be constrained by

1:37:35the styling of internal combustion

1:37:37engine cars we have all this freedom

1:37:39let us now reimagine with a friend of a

1:37:42car can look like because why should we

1:37:44make it look like an internal combustion

1:37:45engine that's a good spirit and that's a

1:37:48good idea and they should pursue that

1:37:49but I feel like what they did was took

1:37:52the front of an internal combustion

1:37:53engine car and just erase the grill in

1:37:55Photoshop it that there's a place for

1:37:57the grill it is shaped like a car with a

1:38:00grill would be was Marcus does the same

1:38:01thing the Model S has a place for the

1:38:02grill and they just put a thing there

1:38:04that is a different color and looks

1:38:05grill like but there's no holes in it

1:38:07it's you know because you don't need air

1:38:08to go into their right that at least

1:38:12like visually from a distance like oh

1:38:13that's a car with a grill but it's not

1:38:15really grill this car clearly has no

1:38:18grill but it has shape wise the place

1:38:20for the grill so I i would encourage

1:38:21them to pursue this Avenue of styling

1:38:25further not like they went too far

1:38:29they didn't go far enough that they

1:38:30didn't sort of reimagine the front end

1:38:32of an electric vehicle that does not

1:38:33need to suck air through a big opening

1:38:34of the heart that didn't do it enough

1:38:35and this is not AI think this may not be

1:38:37the final design they have they could

1:38:39conceivably change it a little trim

1:38:41things to dress it up so friends mess as

1:38:45far as I'm concerned and then the

1:38:46overall shape I get why they made this

1:38:48play

1:38:48they're touting like the interior space

1:38:50the bedroom or whatever but its

1:38:52proportions are just not as nice as the

1:38:54SDS is a bigger car

1:38:56the bigger heart allows it to have nicer

1:38:57proportions to look more aggressive to

1:38:59look less kind of punch back in and

1:39:02dowdy and like a droplet of water or

1:39:05whatever i suspect the three will look

1:39:07better in person than a dozen pictures i

1:39:09really hope look better in person that

1:39:11doesn't pictures but if I remark I be

1:39:14feeling pretty good about my purchase

1:39:16because he still has the best-looking

1:39:18largest best-performing and prettiest

1:39:21Tesla and will for seems like a long

1:39:24time now

1:39:25well yeah I mean I I don't have any

1:39:27buyers remorse you know if for no other

1:39:28reason that this probably won't even be

1:39:31out until my lease is over there saying

1:39:33this will allegedly ship by the end of

1:39:35next year so about 18 months from now I

1:39:38would be surprised if it shipped on time

1:39:40and also there are two

1:39:44200,000 pre-orders and they currently

1:39:47can make something like 50,000 cars a

1:39:49year obviously not all those printers

1:39:51will turn into real orders because it's

1:39:52a refundable deposit so a lot of those

1:39:55people are going to cancel but you know

1:39:58even even if like a quarter of them end

1:40:01up actually going through with it and

1:40:03accepting their cars and buying them and

1:40:06even if there are no production delays

1:40:08which is unlikely it would still put it

1:40:12helped like three years roughly so

1:40:15before I could even get one if I if I

1:40:18wanted one instead of my models and it

1:40:19turns out i probably won't because i

1:40:23like big sedans and I like the

1:40:25additional features the model as I like

1:40:26the additional space i like the

1:40:28additional luxury that it will almost

1:40:30certainly continue to offer over the

1:40:32three you know cost-wise that the model

1:40:343 is is from from the info we have so

1:40:36far none of its final form from the info

1:40:39we have so far it is substantially d

1:40:42content adore you know d option from the

1:40:45base model model s and the cheapest you

1:40:47can get a model s right now if I guess I

1:40:49just when configured it 72 hour battery

1:40:52and you can you turn off all wheel drive

1:40:55you get the cash price down to 70,000

1:40:58and the cash pressure this is allegedly

1:41:00going to be 35,000 and they've said this

1:41:02enough times and been really sure about

1:41:04enough times that they probably really

1:41:06can't go back on that PR wise or at

1:41:07least not by much

1:41:08so in order to cut the cash price of the

1:41:11car in half

1:41:12it's going to have to come with less

1:41:14than what the S comes with at its base

1:41:17model so they've already said it's gonna

1:41:18be it's gonna have things like it's not

1:41:20going to have supercharging about

1:41:22built-in by default like you have to pay

1:41:24after for that if you want supercharging

1:41:26there's a whole bunch of stuff that

1:41:28comes standard on every model s that

1:41:30about the model 3 probably will have to

1:41:32not come with just hit that price point

1:41:34i'm guessing that this is gonna be a

1:41:37major difference between these two cars

1:41:39and and part of the reason they had to

1:41:41make it so much smaller you know and and

1:41:44make it kind of these weird proportions

1:41:46is to help set it apart i think from the

1:41:49s because you know the essence kind of

1:41:50competing in a different bracket here

1:41:52but overall I think from what they've

1:41:54shown so far the e we can have crippled

1:41:57about the dash which

1:41:57I do but even you on twitter like it's

1:42:00not even the final steering wheel and

1:42:02the final steering wheel is going to be

1:42:03amazing like a spaceship so that kind of

1:42:05might take care of the weird issue with

1:42:07not having any displaying from the

1:42:08driver but overall I think this looks

1:42:11like a really potentially awesome car

1:42:13but there's still a lot of question

1:42:15marks over whether they can actually

1:42:17deliver and we know with whether they'll

1:42:19deliver on time and what you'll actually

1:42:21get for the money because I I suspect

1:42:23there's gonna be a lot of things that we

1:42:26think you'd probably want that are going

1:42:28to be optional add-ons at that price

1:42:30point real-time follow-up of the the

1:42:32whole chat room and my memory says that

1:42:34actually they said that they will have

1:42:36supercharging on all models but they

1:42:37will have the capability to but Ilan

1:42:40said on Twitter to somebody recently

1:42:42that it might be an additional fee to

1:42:45activate it just like the old model s

1:42:46was so they will all have the ability to

1:42:48is same thing with them with the

1:42:50autopilot they will all have the

1:42:52hardware to do it but you won't

1:42:54necessarily have that enabled unless you

1:42:55pay extra

1:42:56it's in app purchase in from any car

1:42:58purchase yes it really it's basically I

1:43:01have some faith that the only wild card

1:43:03i feel like in their ability to deliver

1:43:05on this in terms of schedules and

1:43:06pricing everything is the battery

1:43:08factory because you know many things can

1:43:10go wrong there and it is a very large

1:43:12endeavor as they emphasized in the

1:43:13keynote and you're right sorry but

1:43:15everything else about this car

1:43:16they've already done on the model is it

1:43:18doesn't have any weird Falcon wing doors

1:43:21BS it is essentially a smaller s

1:43:24everything in it they they have

1:43:26substantial experience doing yes they

1:43:28know how to make cars with doors with

1:43:30door handles with mirrors with wheels

1:43:32suspension-steering of the motors if

1:43:35they can get the battery manufacturer

1:43:37the price they wanted working the way

1:43:38they wanted sticking in this car i

1:43:39totally believe they will hit their

1:43:41delivery dates because this is this is

1:43:44the kind of iteration I would expect I

1:43:46feel like the X is a weird boondoggle

1:43:48lot with those you know much larger size

1:43:51and the weird doors that it like its own

1:43:54worst enemy this is the natural

1:43:56evolution downmarket of the s and how to

1:44:00make achiever I still feel like the way

1:44:01they make sure is

1:44:02I've got its gonna have a smaller

1:44:03battery that's because it's a smaller

1:44:05car and you can get away with equal or

1:44:08rain or whatever that start with 215

1:44:10range i think 250

1:44:11users it was the rumor but i think they

1:44:12announced 215 yes it's official expected

1:44:15to 15 and for reference that the 70 that

1:44:17the model s 70 kilowatt-hour one

1:44:19specifies 230 and it's also a much

1:44:22bigger heavier car like if you look at

1:44:23the at the ratings compared between the

1:44:25s and the X the X ratings are lower per

1:44:28kilowatt-hour because it takes more

1:44:30energy to move the larger heavier car so

1:44:32i'm guessing with the s having 230 miles

1:44:36out of a 72 hour battery and yes they

1:44:38could put maybe a 50 or 55 into the

1:44:41model 3 to hit that goal

1:44:43yeah I don't think the other thing of

1:44:44the wild-card I don't know about is how

1:44:46much is this going away because you

1:44:47obviously it weigh less than yes but how

1:44:50much less and the only way you get it to

1:44:51weigh a lot less is to use a much

1:44:53smaller battery because those things one

1:44:54at a time or two use lighter materials

1:44:56are they replacing steel aluminum is

1:44:58there any like magnesium or other

1:45:00weirdness going you would imagine it can

1:45:01get to exotic is thirty-five thousand

1:45:02dollar car but aluminum at the very

1:45:04least could be in the mix to try to

1:45:06light in the car and obviously the base

1:45:09model i would just assume i don't

1:45:10remember this was announced

1:45:11you know one motor in the base model

1:45:12right that not the motors are again not

1:45:14as expensive as internal combustion

1:45:16engines but if you want to save money

1:45:17like that's the beauty of electric cars

1:45:18and the sort of the curse is there's not

1:45:21much to them there's electric motor like

1:45:23more or less directly attached to your

1:45:25wheels through a fixed gear ratio their

1:45:27suspension the steering there's some

1:45:29pumps and compressors there's a giant

1:45:31battery and then there's a living room

1:45:32that you put there to say that right and

1:45:35that's it that's all there is in the car

1:45:37this inventing I guess bird for blowing

1:45:38air on you like they're so many fewer

1:45:41components than the giant mess that is

1:45:42under the hood of internal combustion

1:45:44engine cars we're just like the little

1:45:46villages and you know all around the

1:45:48engine in terms of keeping the engine

1:45:49cool and and and keeping the oil flowing

1:45:51through it and things going up and down

1:45:54and firing Sparks and wires and it's

1:45:56just there's just so much extra stuff

1:45:58there that just isn't in this car which

1:45:59means that if you want to make the car

1:46:02for cheaper you can reduce your

1:46:03component costs or you can use less of

1:46:06something that's expensive but there's

1:46:08not much else they're like I really

1:46:09don't feel you know that's why i say on

1:46:11the interior I guess they have to make

1:46:13it not as nice as the s just to like to

1:46:15differentiate their lines but how much

1:46:17money are you really going to save by

1:46:19using different seat materials like you

1:46:22could save a couple hundred bucks here

1:46:23and there but the big-ticket items that

1:46:25stupid battery all the big steel parts

1:46:28that make up a car that you can't get

1:46:29rid of because you need suspension and

1:46:31wheels and a body and crash protection

1:46:33and stuff like that are and I guess that

1:46:36you know one motorist cheaper than two

1:46:38and then that's it then you know so

1:46:40they're they're wise to go after their

1:46:42big cost centers the batteries like how

1:46:44cheaply can we make them can we build

1:46:46like this giant Factory and make pretty

1:46:48huge capital investments that we can

1:46:49turn out that the first year 250,000

1:46:52these batteries and put them into cars

1:46:53that we can sell for thirty-five

1:46:54thousand dollars and at least break even

1:46:56or come close to a product I mean that's

1:46:58the sort of metal thing that we're not

1:47:00really talking about here is that you

1:47:02know Tesla is it would also what you may

1:47:05think it's a car guy about their

1:47:06individual products they're actually

1:47:08doing the thing that so many other car

1:47:11companies have failed to do which is

1:47:12build electric cars build a business on

1:47:15them and make them good cars that people

1:47:17want to buy like that just you know

1:47:19it'sit's it kind of goes without saying

1:47:20we don't say like oh I've complained

1:47:22about this particular car but like

1:47:23nobody else is doing that how the

1:47:26biggest car companies in the world

1:47:27sometimes have difficulty making a car

1:47:29that people want to buy and they're

1:47:30making internal combustion engine car

1:47:32sometimes they miss that target tesla's

1:47:34making electric cars that people want to

1:47:36buy but hundreds of thousands of people

1:47:37water sight unseen so they're you know

1:47:41they're they're quite a phenomenon

1:47:44regardless of the quality of the range

1:47:45of products and this is like their third

1:47:47car or whatever i'm willing to give them

1:47:49why to the way to continue to forth to

1:47:52continue to figure out how to do cars if

1:47:55they're still in business but i really

1:47:56hope they are you know when my grandkids

1:47:58are driving they should be making pretty

1:48:02amazing cars for prices that hopefully

1:48:04anybody can afford the first of all it

1:48:07being in business

1:48:08all in all the way out that I think

1:48:10someone's gonna buy them apple tried

1:48:12right i isolate isolate the car

1:48:14companies the bottom but well maybe a

1:48:17police car company could would even sell

1:48:20to a car company i think they have

1:48:21assassinated on first before you know

1:48:23but I i'm thinking like you know

1:48:24worst-case scenario if they're like

1:48:26desperate and if they're gonna go out of

1:48:27business

1:48:28I think they're gonna get bought rather

1:48:29than just shut down but anyway it's

1:48:32really quite something like to see the

1:48:34amount of enthusiasm

1:48:36and and energy and momentum behind this

1:48:39launch of this car that we know almost

1:48:41nothing about eight and even before we

1:48:43knew anything about it can't happen your

1:48:45story but it's this is really we're on

1:48:47the cusp of something big here and it's

1:48:49it's happening now it's not like this is

1:48:51like well in the future cars will be

1:48:53really nice and will be all electric

1:48:55know today

1:48:56cars are really nice and all electric

1:48:58they're just really expensive right now

1:48:59but they're here they exist they're

1:49:02selling you know like they I think they

1:49:04have something like a hundred and fifty

1:49:05thousand Model S is already out in the

1:49:07world so there's all their they already

1:49:10sell these cars in decent volume and yet

1:49:13this that isn't as much volume as like

1:49:16you know the the entire world driving

1:49:19population or some other big brand cars

1:49:21but that is like real volume that counts

1:49:25for something

1:49:26you know that these things already

1:49:27exists today and they're only going to

1:49:29become more of them in the future it i

1:49:31don't think this is a temporary fad I

1:49:33think this is like this is the lake and

1:49:35once you drive one you realize like oh

1:49:36my god this is amazing

1:49:38why doesn't everybody happened of course

1:49:40the answer is because it's very

1:49:42expensive right now but that seems to be

1:49:43a temporary problem i'm kind of confused

1:49:46about why some of them have a shape door

1:49:49handles and at least one model i presume

1:49:51the base model doesn't like that is that

1:49:53like a value add feature well you by the

1:49:55base model you get straight door handle

1:49:56like Marcos crappy cars but if you have

1:49:58the upsell models your door handle is

1:50:01slightly l-shaped they probably haven't

1:50:03decided which one yet

1:50:04like the one with the elves and built

1:50:06the other one the other without them all

1:50:07those that I think I when they when they

1:50:08drove the cars out onto the stage

1:50:10another electric car moments when you

1:50:12realize they don't have to worry about

1:50:13filling the room with carbon monoxide is

1:50:15a drive cars out hundreds straight

1:50:17exactly and they also have to worry

1:50:18about the noise of the engines running

1:50:20just drive right out fine

1:50:22yeah that was pretty wild really really

1:50:24every time I Drive this electric

1:50:27drivetrain I'm just like all my god this

1:50:28is so good

1:50:29like why why would it if if you can get

1:50:33one of these if you can both swing the

1:50:35price and if it fits within your

1:50:37lifestyle with like you know range

1:50:39concerns and everything if those are and

1:50:41those are two big IFS but if it fits

1:50:44why wouldn't you get it like once you

1:50:46drive it that's honestly how you feel

1:50:48because it's

1:50:49no good if you have the means i highly

1:50:51suggest try picking one up i have to

1:50:54tell you though the interior is so

1:50:56unbelievably bad to my eyes it's got a

1:51:00dashboard ish it has a thing that looks

1:51:04like a dashboard but all it has on the

1:51:06dashboard is a steering wheel and a

1:51:08touchscreen and yes I'm aware that all

1:51:11of this is in flight but it looks like

1:51:14they didn't even try yet like oh god I

1:51:17don't like the floating display it just

1:51:20looks fragile to my eyes which i know is

1:51:22is akc problem but I don't like it and I

1:51:25definitely do not like having any sort

1:51:27of gauges behind the steering wheel I

1:51:29just think that's a terrible idea a lot

1:51:31of other cars have tried that like and

1:51:34there have been various theories i mean

1:51:35the economic one is like will make a

1:51:37world car that's symmetrical so we can

1:51:39do right and left hand drive and just

1:51:40put the dash cluster in the middle

1:51:42I'm not sure how much i buy that as a

1:51:44reason but it's something you can see

1:51:46and think about the one of the reasons

1:51:48they gave was like well it's better to

1:51:51not have to change your focal distance

1:51:53as much from looking out the window

1:51:55where your focal distance is way off

1:51:56down the road to looking super close to

1:51:58you be like the gauge cluster so let's

1:52:00do like a two-level dash or put it in

1:52:02the center so it's you know difference

1:52:04between focusing at four feet versus two

1:52:06feet

1:52:07I'm not sure I buy that because i don't

1:52:09know i mean III can't understand maybe

1:52:10the focal distance you don't want to go

1:52:11from really close to really far but how

1:52:13much farther away from you can you get

1:52:15that dashboard when it 10 had still have

1:52:17it inside the car with you it can you

1:52:19know make that big of a difference and I

1:52:22just think consumers have voted with

1:52:25their feet to say every car that has

1:52:27tried to do this and there have been

1:52:28many of them the feedback has been

1:52:30universally negative not massively

1:52:33negative but enough negative that in

1:52:34subsequent models they changed every car

1:52:36that's not a two-level dash where you

1:52:37have 17 Gators close one so far

1:52:39regardless had a bunch of gauges in the

1:52:41middle has eventually gone back to a

1:52:45more conventional arrangement or like

1:52:46that model has you know faded away a new

1:52:49models replaced i think maybe toda echo

1:52:51still has that arrangement as the SD the

1:52:53loan store but it baffles me why people

1:52:58want to do that in anything other than a

1:52:59concept Carly and the wild card is in

1:53:01course we don't know it

1:53:02I can find you have another solution

1:53:03maybe it's all heads up display and have

1:53:05an amazing HUD alright fine I'm you know

1:53:07I'm just saying is like somewhere where

1:53:10the driver doesn't have to turn his head

1:53:12you need to be able to see things like

1:53:13how fast you're going and you know other

1:53:16information about the car is your turn

1:53:17signal on your headlights on like

1:53:19without having to look elsewhere i feel

1:53:21like that should be easily within the

1:53:23drivers vision without requiring and

1:53:25that's why we have gauge clusters so I

1:53:28really hope they have some solution to

1:53:30that that isn't just look at the giant

1:53:33screen but the Giants 17 or 18 inch

1:53:36screen that we have stable to the front

1:53:38of the dashboard

1:53:39yeah I completely agree i just i

1:53:41understand it's not the final design but

1:53:43god I do not like it at all it just

1:53:46looks so boring and sis this vast

1:53:48emptiness there it's it's terrible

1:53:53all in all I am very interested in the

1:53:55car i'm not interested enough to have

1:53:58put down a pre-order and at this point

1:54:00there's no point putting down a

1:54:01pre-order because Declan will be out of

1:54:03college by the time they would deliver

1:54:04on that formerly part was saying but I'm

1:54:07but I'm really intrigued and i'm really

1:54:09pleased that they're they're moving on

1:54:12off down market is really the right way

1:54:13to describe it but certainly into a

1:54:15larger segment of the market and having

1:54:18driven underscores model s it kind of

1:54:21ruined me for life I mean it

1:54:24electric cars done right are

1:54:26phenomenally cool and and I'm really

1:54:29really anxious to see what this looks

1:54:31like when it's all said and done when

1:54:33it's actually released when will you

1:54:36know what I also want to see is like how

1:54:38did anyone else respond to this

1:54:40yeah what happens when this eat into a

1:54:42big part of sales of the BMW 3-series

1:54:45you know what happened what happened

1:54:47how does everyone else react to this

1:54:49well they already have all got electric

1:54:50our projects in the works like all them

1:54:52a BMW already got one of the i8 and

1:54:54India the i3 and portions got the there

1:54:57are their electric car product that a

1:54:59lot of people have essentially model s

1:55:01competitors in various stages of

1:55:03development i think now it's just a race

1:55:04of who can get their cars to market soon

1:55:08enough because of tehsil beat them the

1:55:09market is going to be a real problem

1:55:10because as we've seen people just gonna

1:55:12buy whatever whatever good electric car

1:55:15is about

1:55:15well they're gonna buy it if for sure

1:55:16beats the the model 3 out i mean the

1:55:18portions are kind of already lost the

1:55:20palace has been out like those something

1:55:21was brought up in a recent article I was

1:55:24reading Porsches target for their

1:55:25electric vehicles like I was going

1:55:27through 15 seconds 0 to 60 in the car

1:55:29that's already out now beats that the

1:55:31model for you that this is a car you're

1:55:33going on within three years that's not

1:55:35good planning right especially if your

1:55:37name is portion you're gonna sell it for

1:55:39a fortune levels prices Tesla is a

1:55:42strong competitor and has a lead but I

1:55:43feel like every cut car companies are

1:55:45competing with even like the new audi a8

1:55:47was designed from the beginning to be

1:55:49this is it this structure this chassis

1:55:52this this you know underpinnings of this

1:55:53car accepts both an internal combustion

1:55:56engine and a full electric setup they do

1:55:58a good job

1:55:59well they will be as good as Tesla who

1:56:00knows but all everyone else has woken up

1:56:02now and said you know we have to do this

1:56:04and now it's just to see a race to see

1:56:06who gets there first I really do feel

1:56:08like the the only edge the established

1:56:10car companies have is the fact that

1:56:12better its styling and they're better

1:56:14look better details and interior and

1:56:16just general kind of like the the

1:56:18intangibles because the Tesla's for all

1:56:20of their their good looks and everything

1:56:22still they haven't I don't know they

1:56:25haven't really defined a strong visual

1:56:28language and I was that you know they

1:56:30kind of have because you can tell a test

1:56:32looks like a Tesla but they all kind of

1:56:34look more generic in-laws like then the

1:56:38fairly distinctive personalities of the

1:56:40other car lines that yeah if you see an

1:56:43audi you know it's an hour be if you see

1:56:44a BMW not to BWW you know like there's

1:56:47this family resemblances the changeover

1:56:49the year and I think Tesla's is to my

1:56:51eyes having trouble establishing

1:56:53anything outside the sort of generic

1:56:55future looking car aesthetic in the

1:56:58early days of the ipod apple had a

1:57:01really really strong advantage over the

1:57:03rest of the market that not only were

1:57:05they often first to some of those form

1:57:07factors they would negotiate rates with

1:57:10the flash memory and they would they

1:57:11would consume so much flash memory

1:57:13production in the world that other

1:57:16manufacturers were not even able to

1:57:18match them on price we even get enough

1:57:20flash memory or get the best kind of

1:57:21flat memory because Apple was consuming

1:57:23at all and had locked up all the supply

1:57:25one of Tesla has that for lithium-ion

1:57:28battery

1:57:29production yeah they're not buying

1:57:30they're making themselves what I fully

1:57:32expect to happen is as part of Tesla's

1:57:35financial viability if they have any

1:57:38excess capacity they will sell batteries

1:57:39from the gigafactory to audi and BMW and

1:57:42Mercedes or whatever because because why

1:57:44wouldn't you like them in the same

1:57:45reason toyota sells the the body called

1:57:48the previous electric drivetrain to so

1:57:50many other car manufacturers they're not

1:57:51afraid of people competing the priests

1:57:53because they feel like the whole package

1:57:54but they'll sell you their system at a

1:57:55at a you know had a profit and license

1:57:58that essentially to you to use your car

1:57:59she's not interested in it

1:58:01one other thing I'm calling is that you

1:58:02remember the the faith beyond the

1:58:04Volkswagen Phaeton are you pronounce it

1:58:06it was like their attempt to make a

1:58:07high-end BW which is weird because IM w

1:58:10is called an audi but anyway vaguely

1:58:13confused product but anyway the reason

1:58:15I'm calling is the the new audi a2 but

1:58:18the option of electric drivetrain my

1:58:20understanding is the new Phaeton is only

1:58:22electric like so that's that's going to

1:58:24be the Volks what is the volkswagen

1:58:26models compared like everyone seems like

1:58:28they want to have one and just it's not

1:58:30so much that like the their secret tech

1:58:32the Tesla has unlocked the Tesla has

1:58:34proven that if you just do a really good

1:58:36job with modern lithium-ion battery

1:58:38technology and put some electric motors

1:58:39people will buy that car for like it

1:58:41like if you if you had told any car

1:58:43manually totality several years ago just

1:58:45sell a car starting at 70 grand the

1:58:48electric can get that you gave him the

1:58:49specs of the my life like no one's gonna

1:58:50buy that that's ridiculous people why

1:58:52don't we just tell them the cars we know

1:58:54how to make exactly the same price

1:58:55that's better in every possible way like

1:58:57that was their shortsightedness they

1:58:58didn't see that this didn't see the

1:59:00advantages of this product it's not

1:59:02because I said we have no idea how to

1:59:03build that because in so many respects

1:59:05building a pure electric car is so much

1:59:07more straightforward than hybrid i was

1:59:09just all them were doing like Oh hybrid

1:59:11systems and we'll go back and forth and

1:59:12the motor will charge the battery in

1:59:13this down the other thing like the chevy

1:59:16volt and everything once it

1:59:18Tesla so smart to commit early no just

1:59:21electric that's it like no hybrid no

1:59:23internal combustion engine makes

1:59:24everything simpler we are completely

1:59:25focused on this and they proved the

1:59:27people will buy this product and now i

1:59:29feel like the other auto manufacturers

1:59:30have woken up to that market possibility

1:59:32and I have to think that there's enough

1:59:35in-house car design expertise and all

1:59:37they need is the battery and electric

1:59:39motor expertise that if if they can't

1:59:42development house at the very least they

1:59:43can buy so i think all the established

1:59:47car makers are going to make good

1:59:49electric cars sooner than we think they

1:59:52are just a question of whether test2

1:59:54continued outrun them