The Accidental Tech Podcast

163: Wet Right Thumb


00:00:00   I'm starting to think seasonal allergies [TS]

00:00:02   are some kind of bullshit like it not [TS]

00:00:05   that not that they're not real but that [TS]

00:00:08   I so I have in the last few years gotten [TS]

00:00:11   really bad seasonal allergies and it [TS]

00:00:14   seems like every single year it is not [TS]

00:00:17   only worse but that everybody else is [TS]

00:00:20   saying oh you know I read her blog [TS]

00:00:22   this is the worst year ever for pollen [TS]

00:00:25   or whatever whatever [TS]

00:00:26   of course this house every year the [TS]

00:00:28   worst year ever and it this this sounds [TS]

00:00:30   like something is wrong house every year [TS]

00:00:32   the hottest year ever i don't know if [TS]

00:00:34   they're linked together but it could be [TS]

00:00:36   that it makes for you know a greenhouse [TS]

00:00:38   effect let's call it might make for [TS]

00:00:40   easier to have more growing things that [TS]

00:00:42   produce more pollen I have no idea if [TS]

00:00:44   that is even the case but it doesn't [TS]

00:00:47   sound plausible [TS]

00:00:48   what I see is a problem that used to not [TS]

00:00:52   exist as much that now is exploding in [TS]

00:00:55   existence and seems to affect tons of [TS]

00:00:58   people and the best thing we can do is [TS]

00:01:01   take medicines that not only don't work [TS]

00:01:04   but that when they don't work the people [TS]

00:01:07   who tell you to take them say oh well it [TS]

00:01:10   doesn't it didn't work this time because [TS]

00:01:12   you didn't start taking a few weeks [TS]

00:01:14   beforehand or Oh it'll you're building [TS]

00:01:16   up a tolerance will start working [TS]

00:01:17   eventually I mean it's like I feel like [TS]

00:01:20   I'm spending whatever it is a dollar [TS]

00:01:23   fifty a day on these pills that do [TS]

00:01:25   nothing every year it's worse and worse [TS]

00:01:28   I don't know it so i mean when i was a [TS]

00:01:31   kid i take allergy shots because I i had [TS]

00:01:33   allergies and that made them a lot [TS]

00:01:34   better and I heard adults do allergy [TS]

00:01:37   shots sometimes for seasonal allergies [TS]

00:01:39   do any of you have in you and the chat [TS]

00:01:42   anybody have experience that because i [TS]

00:01:44   would i would gladly do allergy shots [TS]

00:01:47   again if it could fix this because every [TS]

00:01:49   year at least in the spring sometimes [TS]

00:01:51   also in the fall [TS]

00:01:52   I'm just useless for like two weeks and [TS]

00:01:55   with a combination of like sick kids [TS]

00:01:57   season in the winter preceding this it's [TS]

00:02:00   just exhausting and it makes it hard to [TS]

00:02:01   do anything you should try some some [TS]

00:02:03   Hopi and what is it homeopathic call me [TS]

00:02:05   up the thick what however you pronounce [TS]

00:02:06   I want some of those remedies because I [TS]

00:02:07   they work really well [TS]

00:02:08   oh I'm already taking them by not taking [TS]

00:02:10   them [TS]

00:02:11   hey I'm taking the maximum effective [TS]

00:02:14   dose by not taking them at all haha [TS]

00:02:16   rightly divide by zero something like [TS]

00:02:18   that works out right so let's do some [TS]

00:02:22   follow-up and it starts with we got a [TS]

00:02:25   lot of feedback about how Walmart is [TS]

00:02:28   energy-efficient and I don't even recall [TS]

00:02:30   having talked about that in the prior [TS]

00:02:33   episode i remember talking about energy [TS]

00:02:34   efficiency of course but i guess one of [TS]

00:02:36   us made some sort of flipping comment [TS]

00:02:38   about it and inhabit out that was me I [TS]

00:02:40   been through one under the bus because [TS]

00:02:42   they're the the standard-bearer for a [TS]

00:02:44   terrible giant american company right [TS]

00:02:47   and so I just assumed that they were [TS]

00:02:49   also the type of company that would [TS]

00:02:51   pinch pennies and not bother investing [TS]

00:02:53   in green energy but that is not the case [TS]

00:02:55   we will link to a walmart website where [TS]

00:02:58   they were talking about are the [TS]

00:02:59   renewable plans they plan to be under on [TS]

00:03:02   hundred percent renewable energy by 2020 [TS]

00:03:03   so they're not quite where Apple is [TS]

00:03:06   today but they have plans to get there [TS]

00:03:08   they have a whole big page on the [TS]

00:03:09   website about sustainability [TS]

00:03:11   I you know I I hesitate to say this [TS]

00:03:14   because I'm sure we'll just get more [TS]

00:03:16   email from people telling me the walmart [TS]

00:03:18   doesn't do anything bad ever [TS]

00:03:19   well that's not true i only wish that [TS]

00:03:21   their sustainability that they have this [TS]

00:03:23   page extended to the sustainability of [TS]

00:03:25   their workforces and paying them enough [TS]

00:03:26   to be alive and healthy and not relying [TS]

00:03:30   on well take if they can't get paying [TS]

00:03:32   benefits to rest the government pickups [TS]

00:03:34   back anyway I don't like Walmart have [TS]

00:03:36   you noticed but they are actually doing [TS]

00:03:39   solar stuff so I was wrong in that [TS]

00:03:41   there you go walmart boosters that [TS]

00:03:43   they're out there in Walmart's defense [TS]

00:03:46   which is a probably afraid you'll never [TS]

00:03:48   hear me say again but in Walmart's [TS]

00:03:51   defense if you look at other retailers [TS]

00:03:54   like Amazon for instance it's often not [TS]

00:03:58   a lot better it's it's mostly what [TS]

00:04:00   mostly at fault here is retail is a [TS]

00:04:03   terrible and extremely cutthroat [TS]

00:04:05   business and government regulations on [TS]

00:04:08   things like minimum wage simply don't go [TS]

00:04:11   far enough okay to emails next topic [TS]

00:04:14   well now that i wouldn't call it a [TS]

00:04:16   walmart defense that would just be [TS]

00:04:17   saying like Walmart does bad things and [TS]

00:04:19   also other people do too and so [TS]

00:04:21   they're all so bad it doesn't make them [TS]

00:04:23   any better to find other people who do [TS]

00:04:24   the bad thing and we're not going to get [TS]

00:04:26   into it you know like well if you don't [TS]

00:04:28   like the minimum wage like well my other [TS]

00:04:30   my competitors can pay their blood [TS]

00:04:32   employees this low and we don't we're [TS]

00:04:34   gonna go out of business anyway [TS]

00:04:35   yes there maybe there's lots of blame to [TS]

00:04:38   go around but Walmart is far from [TS]

00:04:39   blameless but they do put solar panels [TS]

00:04:41   on the roof things so there's they've [TS]

00:04:44   got that going for the one thing they do [TS]

00:04:45   okay we all right so I wanted to tell us [TS]

00:04:50   about USB ports on the ipad pro because [TS]

00:04:52   apparently we're all confused about it [TS]

00:04:54   we are not confused i was just thinking [TS]

00:04:56   about it the other day it's not what you [TS]

00:04:58   think it's not like oh yeah the USB two [TS]

00:04:59   speeds on the the 9.7 inch iPad and [TS]

00:05:02   stuff like that when I was thinking [TS]

00:05:03   about is you got this relatively huge [TS]

00:05:06   ipad pro the big one and even the you [TS]

00:05:09   know the regular-sized iPad has a lot of [TS]

00:05:10   room on it and at these days the only [TS]

00:05:12   thing on them and now they removed like [TS]

00:05:15   the rotation lock and everything is like [TS]

00:05:17   power volume of course that you know [TS]

00:05:21   that the home button touch ID sensor but [TS]

00:05:23   then this one tiny little lightning port [TS]

00:05:25   on the side and I was like well what's [TS]

00:05:26   the next step for the big ipad pro your [TS]

00:05:29   keyboards you can attach them it's got a [TS]

00:05:30   smart connector on the side you know [TS]

00:05:33   he's got a stylist and i was i was the [TS]

00:05:37   most inspired by Marco talking last week [TS]

00:05:38   about you could always hook up USB [TS]

00:05:40   things to iPads and iOS devices and they [TS]

00:05:43   were just magically work if you could [TS]

00:05:44   somehow find a way to power them if they [TS]

00:05:45   if they didn't get enough power from the [TS]

00:05:47   port and stuff like that like that the [TS]

00:05:48   drivers are on there so the big ipad pro [TS]

00:05:52   why would you not have actual USB ports [TS]

00:05:56   on it i mean i guess not more than one [TS]

00:05:58   because you wouldn't want to be more [TS]

00:05:59   powerful than a quick one right but [TS]

00:06:00   anyway but what why wouldn't you you [TS]

00:06:04   know as opposed to having a camera [TS]

00:06:05   adapter and all this other stuff like [TS]

00:06:07   you know or or SD card slot over but [TS]

00:06:10   there's just so much freaking room on [TS]

00:06:11   the big ipad pro but as far as USB [TS]

00:06:14   connectors apple is painted itself into [TS]

00:06:17   kind of a corner with the Lightning [TS]

00:06:19   thing because the practical reason why [TS]

00:06:21   you wouldn't put USB connectors on the [TS]

00:06:23   ipad is if you did put them there they [TS]

00:06:25   be USB type-c and USB type-c looks a [TS]

00:06:27   hell lot like lightning and I can just [TS]

00:06:29   imagine people jamming their lighting [TS]

00:06:30   into the USBC port or vice versa and [TS]

00:06:33   that's like a nightmare [TS]

00:06:34   usability I mean how could you [TS]

00:06:35   distinguish between those two ports they [TS]

00:06:36   they are different sizes physically [TS]

00:06:38   speaking and probably with the big one [TS]

00:06:40   can fit into the small one but i don't [TS]

00:06:42   think that's the reason what right but i [TS]

00:06:44   meant i think it would be a natural [TS]

00:06:46   evolution of especially the very big [TS]

00:06:49   ipad pro two have actual USB ports on [TS]

00:06:51   eventually right but I don't see how [TS]

00:06:54   that can happen when lightning looks so [TS]

00:06:56   much like us bc so I wonder how Apple [TS]

00:06:59   will square that and if the answer is no [TS]

00:07:00   we're never going to have more than a [TS]

00:07:02   lightning port on that i'm not entirely [TS]

00:07:04   sure that's the best long-term answer if [TS]

00:07:06   they really wanted especially the big [TS]

00:07:08   ipad pro to becoming more and more of a [TS]

00:07:11   viable laptop replacement ultimately [TS]

00:07:13   there are so many reasons why you could [TS]

00:07:16   you could you can conceivably think of [TS]

00:07:18   why Apple would not be putting USB ports [TS]

00:07:21   on iPads and and iOS devices in general [TS]

00:07:24   but why wouldn't you put it on the big [TS]

00:07:26   one long-term like I understand [TS]

00:07:27   obviously you're not going to put it on [TS]

00:07:28   like most of the iOS line but when they [TS]

00:07:31   when you get up into something that's so [TS]

00:07:32   big that it's it's so obviously not [TS]

00:07:34   intended to be just a slip into your bag [TS]

00:07:37   type of thing but it's like it's the [TS]

00:07:38   size of a laptop why does that not get [TS]

00:07:40   1i guess you know Thunderbolt 3 port or [TS]

00:07:43   whatever because there's so much you can [TS]

00:07:44   do like there's so many doors that [TS]

00:07:46   opened in terms of how usable it on your [TS]

00:07:48   desk as opposed to when you're walking [TS]

00:07:50   around with it but it's almost a shame [TS]

00:07:51   to be constrained by lightning forever i [TS]

00:07:54   mean it's it's possible they will at [TS]

00:07:56   some point you know we never say never [TS]

00:07:58   with apple and especially with a product [TS]

00:08:00   line and that is kind of on the way down [TS]

00:08:04   on Cena sales-wise like Apple has done a [TS]

00:08:07   lot of things with the recent iPads that [TS]

00:08:09   we thought they'd never do you know in [TS]

00:08:11   an effort to to broaden your help help [TS]

00:08:13   it find its feet or you know help help [TS]

00:08:15   increase sales in some way or another so [TS]

00:08:18   i think they very well might do [TS]

00:08:20   something like that in the future I [TS]

00:08:21   think there's lots of reasons why they [TS]

00:08:22   have done so far and i think they can [TS]

00:08:24   very easily get past the physical [TS]

00:08:26   challenges of of how do you how do you [TS]

00:08:29   fit a port and then how do you avoid [TS]

00:08:31   confusion with the other port I can get [TS]

00:08:34   around that with you know either by [TS]

00:08:36   pumping and not solving the problem just [TS]

00:08:37   putting the USBC port on there which is [TS]

00:08:40   not that unlikely or just you know [TS]

00:08:43   shipping dongle or something I mean you [TS]

00:08:45   know they are you know make a new [TS]

00:08:46   standard [TS]

00:08:47   USB Micro see and you declared an [TS]

00:08:50   industry standard you know nothing about [TS]

00:08:51   these apple devices will have for three [TS]

00:08:53   years and you know then that's you know [TS]

00:08:55   they could solve that problem like that [TS]

00:08:57   that is not the reason they're doing it [TS]

00:08:59   and if they wanted to do it they would [TS]

00:09:01   get around that problem [TS]

00:09:02   yeah i would i would like to see how [TS]

00:09:04   they would get around that because USB [TS]

00:09:05   type-c seems like I mean because [TS]

00:09:07   supposedly apple had a lot of influence [TS]

00:09:09   in that connector it looks a lot like [TS]

00:09:10   lightning it's a from all accounts a [TS]

00:09:12   pretty good connector as far as those [TS]

00:09:14   things go [TS]

00:09:15   having to come up with a new one just [TS]

00:09:17   because the existing one that but [TS]

00:09:19   hopefully by that point everybody [TS]

00:09:21   industry actually use and it really is [TS]

00:09:22   an industry standard because the Apple [TS]

00:09:24   didn't make it up [TS]

00:09:24   I'm just having to come up with one more [TS]

00:09:26   where connector I don't know it just [TS]

00:09:28   seems like a shame to meet in it seems [TS]

00:09:30   like a shame in the same way that it has [TS]

00:09:32   always been a shame and continues to be [TS]

00:09:33   a shame that Microsoft chose the same [TS]

00:09:36   modifier key as unix meaning that you [TS]

00:09:38   want to unity stuff on windows it's a [TS]

00:09:41   battle between the unix environment and [TS]

00:09:43   the windows environment like you know [TS]

00:09:44   ctrl-c does that mean you know send the [TS]

00:09:47   interrupt signal or copy text and you [TS]

00:09:50   know depends on where you are as Apple [TS]

00:09:52   through mostly accidents of history [TS]

00:09:53   happened to not have that problem [TS]

00:09:55   because the mac operating system uses [TS]

00:09:57   the command key and too much much lesser [TS]

00:10:00   extent the control key so the control [TS]

00:10:02   he's almost entirely available the unix [TS]

00:10:03   environment so when they did the [TS]

00:10:05   chocolate peanut butter combination that [TS]

00:10:07   is or was Mac OS 10 hours os10 it was [TS]

00:10:10   beautiful you don't have to worry about [TS]

00:10:11   the conflict and I feel like Apple is on [TS]

00:10:14   the windows control key for the OS side [TS]

00:10:16   of the equation with its lighting ports [TS]

00:10:18   basically making it a little bit extra [TS]

00:10:20   bit of a pain in the butt you know they [TS]

00:10:23   have now they have a problem to solve [TS]

00:10:24   whereas these devices that are just USBC [TS]

00:10:27   from top to bottom won't have that [TS]

00:10:29   problem to solve their only problem will [TS]

00:10:31   be like how many of these USBC port so [TS]

00:10:33   we put on our cool new laptop [TS]

00:10:34   replacement tablet thing I forget that [TS]

00:10:37   the surface has USBC port on it but [TS]

00:10:40   anyway if they wanted to it seems like I [TS]

00:10:41   think they could do much more easily [TS]

00:10:42   than apple and it's one of those [TS]

00:10:44   problems where it's like well couldn't [TS]

00:10:45   windows have changed that but they added [TS]

00:10:46   the windows key that could have changed [TS]

00:10:47   their modifier but it just has so much [TS]

00:10:49   inertia and it would annoy so many [TS]

00:10:51   people that windows continues to learn [TS]

00:10:53   along with the control keeping the [TS]

00:10:54   modifier for everything [TS]

00:10:56   well don't worry and windows will never [TS]

00:10:57   have any kind of unix support [TS]

00:10:59   did you have that open to hang out I [TS]

00:11:03   know it's I don't think I mean [TS]

00:11:06   that'sthat's unix never-changing taking [TS]

00:11:08   the control away from them and it in the [TS]

00:11:10   grand scheme of things that small issue [TS]

00:11:11   but it's one of those things that makes [TS]

00:11:13   me happy about my combination of [TS]

00:11:15   mackineeks every time I deal with it and [TS]

00:11:17   looking at the ipad and lightning port [TS]

00:11:19   and the USBC port shape that makes me [TS]

00:11:22   for my brow bit so I mean at this is not [TS]

00:11:27   on a topic list which is why I'm going [TS]

00:11:29   to derail us and talking about it why do [TS]

00:11:31   you think they haven't put a lot of put [TS]

00:11:33   a USB port on ipad so far and and and [TS]

00:11:36   what do you think they could do that i [TS]

00:11:37   mean i think the former is easy to [TS]

00:11:40   explain like why have done so far I [TS]

00:11:41   think that the big things are that it [TS]

00:11:44   seemed like the past they want to move [TS]

00:11:45   forward from that and didn't want to [TS]

00:11:47   build support for these devices and deal [TS]

00:11:48   with all the all the technical and [TS]

00:11:50   software complexity of that and also [TS]

00:11:52   they kinda like things to be all include [TS]

00:11:55   we all kind of enclosed for instance one [TS]

00:11:58   of the things that you would want the [TS]

00:11:59   USB port for be additional storage and [TS]

00:12:01   they are don't want to do that they [TS]

00:12:03   wanted to buy from them so i think [TS]

00:12:05   there's lots of reasons why they haven't [TS]

00:12:06   done it before [TS]

00:12:07   what do you think could motivate them to [TS]

00:12:10   to add USB like ports for kind of [TS]

00:12:14   general use on the ipad pro I've seen [TS]

00:12:18   people use the little camera connection [TS]

00:12:21   kit that has a USB port on it and the [TS]

00:12:25   only time I think I've ever seen it was [TS]

00:12:27   you doing live broadcasts when were in [TS]

00:12:30   San Francisco 4wd see I know that Jason [TS]

00:12:34   smell is you know play around with it as [TS]

00:12:37   have others but i cannot think of anyone [TS]

00:12:40   other than you Marco that I've ever seen [TS]

00:12:42   use the USB to lightning or in the past [TS]

00:12:45   USB dock connectors so I just don't feel [TS]

00:12:48   like there's much of a market for like I [TS]

00:12:50   can't think of anything that I would [TS]

00:12:53   want to plug into my ipad other than [TS]

00:12:55   maybe the memory card from my camera or [TS]

00:12:57   the camera itself [TS]

00:12:58   hence the connection the dongle being [TS]

00:13:01   called the camera connector I just don't [TS]

00:13:04   see why one would want this [TS]

00:13:06   well it's a kind of as with all these [TS]

00:13:08   things in a race with the we talked [TS]

00:13:10   about this many shows ago it's in a race [TS]

00:13:11   with the wire [TS]

00:13:12   this technology's right so there's lots [TS]

00:13:13   of wireless standards out there for [TS]

00:13:17   everything from wireless display to [TS]

00:13:20   wireless power to all you know obviously [TS]

00:13:22   we have wireless networking and that is [TS]

00:13:24   but become pervasive so it really kind [TS]

00:13:28   of is a race between the eventual need [TS]

00:13:31   to do some of the things that USB does [TS]

00:13:33   on on tablet devices and how long it [TS]

00:13:38   takes for all those wireless standards [TS]

00:13:39   to become to reach their wife I'm gonna [TS]

00:13:41   wear for a moment where they finally [TS]

00:13:43   become good enough for general use and [TS]

00:13:44   just spread everywhere because but no [TS]

00:13:46   one loves wires like if you could have I [TS]

00:13:48   love lawyers wireless display and you [TS]

00:13:51   know why are the storage and wireless [TS]

00:13:52   power so you just come to us with your [TS]

00:13:54   laptop and put it down in your big [TS]

00:13:56   screen for any returns on like of course [TS]

00:13:57   who wouldn't want that right i mean [TS]

00:13:58   especially things like monitors that you [TS]

00:14:01   plug into the wall and like you have to [TS]

00:14:02   recharge the batteries in your monitor [TS]

00:14:03   the monitor but still be plugged into [TS]

00:14:04   just didn't have to deal with anybody [TS]

00:14:06   we're not there yet obviously with those [TS]

00:14:07   but so setting that aside and the fact [TS]

00:14:09   that could swamp all this the reason you [TS]

00:14:11   eventually want something like us beyond [TS]

00:14:13   the big ipad or whatever is in the same [TS]

00:14:16   reason they added a stylist right or [TS]

00:14:18   they made the big version that they're [TS]

00:14:20   they're extending these the capabilities [TS]

00:14:22   of the device you know and you're [TS]

00:14:23   multitasking with a split screen that [TS]

00:14:25   they want people to be able to do things [TS]

00:14:27   with these devices that they couldn't do [TS]

00:14:29   with the simpler ones and it's because [TS]

00:14:31   they're becoming more powerful they're [TS]

00:14:33   becoming the out that there was someone [TS]

00:14:35   posted recently i think it was a joke [TS]

00:14:37   between something about like look at all [TS]

00:14:39   of the CPUs that have ever been and i [TS]

00:14:42   think it was microsoft surface or I [TS]

00:14:44   forget what it was some other you know [TS]

00:14:47   slim sort of people something that [TS]

00:14:49   people accept a laptop replacement look [TS]

00:14:51   at how many of them are slower than the [TS]

00:14:52   ipad pro write it if if the top end of [TS]

00:14:57   technology in terms of computing power [TS]

00:15:00   is not growing as it used to and we will [TS]

00:15:03   talk about in tech not tick tock stuff [TS]

00:15:05   later in the show i eventually these [TS]

00:15:09   things that are historically lesser [TS]

00:15:12   devices laptops and eventually tablets [TS]

00:15:14   and eventually supposedly phones will [TS]

00:15:17   slowly creep up and start closing the [TS]

00:15:19   gap and you will be left with the [TS]

00:15:21   situation where a big ipad pro can have [TS]

00:15:24   all the power [TS]

00:15:24   maybe they just don't think the mac pro [TS]

00:15:25   anymore eventually a big ipad pro will [TS]

00:15:27   have all the power of the current mac [TS]

00:15:29   pro because i'll never forget updated [TS]

00:15:30   machine and if you have if you have a [TS]

00:15:34   small you know it's against the the [TS]

00:15:36   price and size the computer starts [TS]

00:15:37   dropping 20 then you will want to have a [TS]

00:15:40   little thing like that you carry around [TS]

00:15:42   with you and your bag that you check on [TS]

00:15:43   your desk in that when you do so you can [TS]

00:15:46   connect to all the peripherals that [TS]

00:15:47   you'd want in a big desk environment you [TS]

00:15:49   can have multiple monitors hooked up you [TS]

00:15:50   can have larger storage you could have [TS]

00:15:52   wired networking for faster transfers [TS]

00:15:55   you could have all sorts of other [TS]

00:15:56   peripherals and the question is do you [TS]

00:15:58   need to plug them in our they're all [TS]

00:15:59   wireless so this point with today's [TS]

00:16:01   technology a lot of them you need to [TS]

00:16:02   plug-in so that's why I'm saying like a [TS]

00:16:03   thunderbolt three poor like we keep [TS]

00:16:05   saying USB but you know you hook it up [TS]

00:16:06   and you have to external monitors maybe [TS]

00:16:09   you hook it up and you have a big giant [TS]

00:16:11   touchscreen it's like 27 inches that's [TS]

00:16:13   you know like laid out on your table [TS]

00:16:15   instead of being in front of you or [TS]

00:16:16   whatever so you could do more [TS]

00:16:17   complicated stuff it's like why why [TS]

00:16:19   wouldn't have a desktop computer to that [TS]

00:16:20   how can an ipad drive something drive [TS]

00:16:22   peripherals that powerful eventually it [TS]

00:16:25   will be able to again especially at the [TS]

00:16:28   top and it continues to grow more slowly [TS]

00:16:31   than the bottom so i feel like the [TS]

00:16:33   functionality currently enabled by [TS]

00:16:35   Thunderbolt port or USB 3 port [TS]

00:16:38   inevitably will come to tablet class [TS]

00:16:41   devices assuming tablet devices still [TS]

00:16:43   existed not like they are devices or [TS]

00:16:45   whatever [TS]

00:16:45   the only question is when that comes to [TS]

00:16:47   pass will we need to use the USB [TS]

00:16:50   connector to do it or we'll all be [TS]

00:16:51   Wireless will be some other standard so [TS]

00:16:53   here's here's an interesting thought [TS]

00:16:55   experiment we've had wireless things in [TS]

00:16:58   general wireless protocols wireless [TS]

00:17:00   networking wireless you know device [TS]

00:17:02   interconnection standards things like [TS]

00:17:04   Bluetooth Wi-Fi we've had these things [TS]

00:17:06   now for a long time and technology terms [TS]

00:17:09   in over 10 years we've had these things [TS]

00:17:11   not only have they been you know [TS]

00:17:13   possible but they've been like [TS]

00:17:15   ubiquitous for over 10 years and and [TS]

00:17:17   very widely supported and really quite [TS]

00:17:19   mature for what they are and yet if you [TS]

00:17:22   look at the devices we use with the [TS]

00:17:25   exception of things that are fully [TS]

00:17:26   integrated like iPads but you know if [TS]

00:17:28   you look like a laptop or desktop [TS]

00:17:30   computer things that do connect to other [TS]

00:17:32   peripherals or other pieces of hardware [TS]

00:17:34   like monitors and stuff [TS]

00:17:36   almost all of that is still using wires [TS]

00:17:38   that was using wires 10 years ago like [TS]

00:17:41   it seems like as the wireless things [TS]

00:17:44   have gotten better [TS]

00:17:45   so have the wired versions of the [TS]

00:17:47   various connection protocols and [TS]

00:17:49   everything and everyone still using [TS]

00:17:51   wires for lots of good reasons like I [TS]

00:17:53   love wires because they simply work [TS]

00:17:55   better most of the time like they're [TS]

00:17:57   they're usually more reliable they're [TS]

00:17:59   often faster they can go in places where [TS]

00:18:01   wireless kind of can't like hi [TS]

00:18:03   interference environments or you know [TS]

00:18:05   certain restricted areas like planes or [TS]

00:18:07   no incident wireless stuff they have [TS]

00:18:09   advantage of things like power delivery [TS]

00:18:11   and battery usage and everything else so [TS]

00:18:12   wires are kind of yeah I think they're [TS]

00:18:16   here to stay like everyone always [TS]

00:18:18   assumes that in the future everything [TS]

00:18:20   will be Wireless you know as you like [TS]

00:18:22   you can interfacing with your monitor [TS]

00:18:24   interfacing with this stuff on your desk [TS]

00:18:25   but maybe that's not true maybe that's [TS]

00:18:28   not a safe assumption because I think [TS]

00:18:30   we've had long enough now with wireless [TS]

00:18:32   interconnexion things that have been [TS]

00:18:34   possible and yet we're still using wires [TS]

00:18:36   for these things because they just work [TS]

00:18:37   better but no one uses wires for not [TS]

00:18:39   working anymore they take the ethernet [TS]

00:18:41   ports right off the devices like as soon [TS]

00:18:42   as Wi-Fi was good enough not good [TS]

00:18:44   because we always know it's flaky it [TS]

00:18:45   slower like we all know the limitations [TS]

00:18:47   of Wi-Fi it's you get interference in [TS]

00:18:49   microwave oven and you have interference [TS]

00:18:50   from your portable phones and your thing [TS]

00:18:52   and then you can't get on the network [TS]

00:18:53   and you know you keep dropping like [TS]

00:18:55   Wi-Fi has problems but as soon as they [TS]

00:18:57   got good enough people like will screw [TS]

00:18:58   these things because no one wants to [TS]

00:19:00   walk from place to place a run wires [TS]

00:19:02   through their house or plug things in or [TS]

00:19:03   whatever i do all those things but [TS]

00:19:06   something is just not possible like you [TS]

00:19:08   know having having the you know wireless [TS]

00:19:11   display technology so you don't you know [TS]

00:19:13   all the sorts of all those are laptop [TS]

00:19:15   docks that you see in offices in the [TS]

00:19:17   many different incarnations they come in [TS]

00:19:19   and then no I don't want a doctor's 11 [TS]

00:19:20   cable to plug in or whatever it is it's [TS]

00:19:22   not that bad to plug something in but if [TS]

00:19:25   you told those people in the same way [TS]

00:19:26   that we told them hey every time you sit [TS]

00:19:28   down you guess you'll have to plug the [TS]

00:19:29   ethernet cable in and out anymore [TS]

00:19:30   doesn't seem like a baby like who cares [TS]

00:19:31   i plug in one cable it's fine it's [TS]

00:19:33   really convenient it's so you know it [TS]

00:19:34   works every time it's not a big deal but [TS]

00:19:37   Wi-Fi just wiped all that stuff off the [TS]

00:19:39   face of the earth there is no equivalent [TS]

00:19:41   to Wi-Fi would say bluetooth isn't even [TS]

00:19:43   equal to Wi-Fi because I think bluetooth [TS]

00:19:45   is still not passed the level of non [TS]

00:19:47   flakiness for anything except for [TS]

00:19:49   devices that never [TS]

00:19:49   removing output keyboards and mice i [TS]

00:19:51   think people apart more or less except [TS]

00:19:52   bluetooth but then there's the annoyance [TS]

00:19:53   of the battery charging that wasn't [TS]

00:19:55   there with wire so it has a downside to [TS]

00:19:57   feel like bluetooth is borderline but no [TS]

00:19:59   other wireless technology for anything [TS]

00:20:01   else like storage or monitors or [TS]

00:20:03   anything like that is as you know is [TS]

00:20:06   remotely up to the the the net win that [TS]

00:20:11   Wi-Fi was but it doesn't mean that they [TS]

00:20:13   never will be and you just read any [TS]

00:20:14   sci-fi book like technologically [TS]

00:20:16   speaking there's no reason you couldn't [TS]

00:20:18   have really sophisticated high-speed [TS]

00:20:20   ubiquitous short-range high-bandwidth [TS]

00:20:23   Wi-Fi even the power delivery stuff so [TS]

00:20:25   you're saying on a very long time scale [TS]

00:20:27   happened i don't have to be that long i [TS]

00:20:30   mean you know people who use wireless [TS]

00:20:31   charging for their phones [TS]

00:20:33   it does that really exists I mean like [TS]

00:20:35   yeah like those stupid little pads yeah [TS]

00:20:37   i mean obviously the it you can buy them [TS]

00:20:39   for Apple devices to but most people use [TS]

00:20:41   i would imagine using for some kind of [TS]

00:20:42   android device it that is not a third [TS]

00:20:44   party thing but it comes with the thing [TS]

00:20:46   but I I don't know people who choose to [TS]

00:20:48   do that like that no one's forcing them [TS]

00:20:50   to use that they find it convenient that [TS]

00:20:51   when they come home they put all their [TS]

00:20:53   devices on a big pad or they put in a [TS]

00:20:55   little cradle and it's like what you're [TS]

00:20:56   putting in a cradle if there was a [TS]

00:20:58   little plug at the bottom of the crater [TS]

00:20:59   wouldn't would make a big difference if [TS]

00:21:01   you plug it in and fuck their choosing [TS]

00:21:02   and there you know this is not always [TS]

00:21:04   the biggest technology there's it's just [TS]

00:21:05   more convenient to have to deal with the [TS]

00:21:06   plug i just put on this thing and the [TS]

00:21:08   charges [TS]

00:21:09   it's not great it's slower it's not good [TS]

00:21:10   enough for everybody yet but the fact [TS]

00:21:12   that anybody chooses to do it its [TS]

00:21:14   currents add unsupported state shows [TS]

00:21:16   that there is a desire for it's like I [TS]

00:21:18   feel like the the convenience hooks of [TS]

00:21:21   all those wireless things are impossible [TS]

00:21:23   to resist as soon as they pass the [TS]

00:21:25   minimum you know sort of reliability [TS]

00:21:28   threshold and and Wi-Fi is the best [TS]

00:21:31   example and I think the only one that [TS]

00:21:33   has passed in bluetooth is is on the [TS]

00:21:34   border everything else it's like are [TS]

00:21:36   able to keep revising the protocols and [TS]

00:21:38   a few early adopters will try it and [TS]

00:21:40   then you know revise revise your eyes [TS]

00:21:42   will know when it crosses the threshold [TS]

00:21:43   because Apple have it all over the place [TS]

00:21:45   because apple doesn't want any ports any [TS]

00:21:46   of his devices they don't want rotation [TS]

00:21:48   lock switch for crying out loud that [TS]

00:21:49   still drives me nuts [TS]

00:21:51   there was no room inside the device it [TS]

00:21:52   couldn't be a millimeter bigger sorry [TS]

00:21:54   Casey we had that empty space for the [TS]

00:21:56   four speakers they need every millimeter [TS]

00:21:58   that empty space it's impossible to make [TS]

00:22:00   the device [TS]

00:22:00   did you guys have a mute switch bump I [TS]

00:22:02   mean that if they have a camera bump to [TS]

00:22:04   accommodate that Y component should have [TS]

00:22:06   a mute switch bump on the other side [TS]

00:22:07   think that it could be even [TS]

00:22:08   mute switch is a bump like that's what [TS]

00:22:10   makes it a switch it out and you can [TS]

00:22:11   slide it back and forth don't get it [TS]

00:22:13   they'll make it a touch ID button you [TS]

00:22:14   have to use your fingerprint him you and [TS]

00:22:16   you work with your hands what ya get you [TS]

00:22:20   know the one hand trick though right [TS]

00:22:22   what no you so that the problem touch ID [TS]

00:22:26   sensor is that people found as soon as [TS]

00:22:27   they introduced is they work fine but [TS]

00:22:28   then you go do the dishes and you try to [TS]

00:22:30   unlock your phone doesn't work and [TS]

00:22:32   you're annoyed and eventually your hands [TS]

00:22:34   dry it works again all you gotta do is [TS]

00:22:36   what your hands a lot and then train it [TS]

00:22:38   on your wet finger you can label it as [TS]

00:22:40   you know wet right and then you have [TS]

00:22:43   your you will train it on your dry right [TS]

00:22:45   thumb and your training on your wet [TS]

00:22:46   right thumb and both work life hack [TS]

00:22:49   well that was always my so there-there [TS]

00:22:51   was that there was that like court case [TS]

00:22:53   whatever where somebody at some point [TS]

00:22:55   ruled that that the police can't ask you [TS]

00:22:59   for your passcode but they can force you [TS]

00:23:01   to use your fingerprint to unlock your [TS]

00:23:02   phone so my my contingency plan in case [TS]

00:23:05   I forget questioned by the police and [TS]

00:23:06   they forced me to access my phone suck [TS]

00:23:08   your thumb what it would be like my [TS]

00:23:10   finger for a second and then make touch [TS]

00:23:12   ID fail three times so then it would [TS]

00:23:14   require the passcode and then I wouldn't [TS]

00:23:16   have to let them in just in case you're [TS]

00:23:18   still water on your phone and then we'll [TS]

00:23:20   be together before the the waterproof [TS]

00:23:22   iphone 7 comes out [TS]

00:23:23   yeah I think I think honestly think it's [TS]

00:23:25   already too late as the success is [TS]

00:23:26   already almost waterproof right isn't it [TS]

00:23:28   like fairly waterproof I think it's only [TS]

00:23:30   want to provide YouTube the magic realm [TS]

00:23:33   of YouTube you can put it in a glass of [TS]

00:23:35   water and it's fine if you do it at home [TS]

00:23:36   and instantly dies [TS]

00:23:37   I don't even know where to go from here [TS]

00:23:39   we can follow up we like three topics [TS]

00:23:41   deep I don't even know what's happening [TS]

00:23:42   the show we got one item of follow-up [TS]

00:23:44   left [TS]

00:23:45   Oh God when you're in charge Marco [TS]

00:23:46   everything everything takes term is [TS]

00:23:47   never in charge now this is a life [TS]

00:23:49   lesson [TS]

00:23:49   exactly I'm not in charge i just kind of [TS]

00:23:52   took charge because that's how life [TS]

00:23:54   works [TS]

00:23:54   you need an agent of chaos as they say [TS]

00:23:56   something like that no one ever granted [TS]

00:23:58   Authority you have to take it now i'm [TS]

00:24:00   taking authority and saying let's get [TS]

00:24:02   through this one damn last piece of [TS]

00:24:03   follow-ups we can tackle topics our [TS]

00:24:06   sponsor this week is Casper Casper is an [TS]

00:24:09   online reading it worse [TS]

00:24:11   I know but Casper isn't there on the [TS]

00:24:12   retailer premium mattresses for a friend [TS]

00:24:14   you know the price matters industry is [TS]

00:24:16   inherently for consumers into paying [TS]

00:24:17   notoriously hi markups Casper [TS]

00:24:19   revolutionize the industry by cutting [TS]

00:24:21   class of dealing with resellers and [TS]

00:24:22   showrooms and pass that savings directly [TS]

00:24:24   to you the consumer casper mattresses [TS]

00:24:26   provide resilience and long-lasting [TS]

00:24:28   supportive comfort its one-of-a-kind [TS]

00:24:30   it's a new hybrid style mattress that [TS]

00:24:33   combines premium latex foam with memory [TS]

00:24:36   foam to give you the best of both you [TS]

00:24:38   don't have like the super hot feeling of [TS]

00:24:40   memory foam pure mattresses but you [TS]

00:24:43   still get that kind of nice cushion to [TS]

00:24:44   support with this combination now [TS]

00:24:46   mattresses usually for a good matches [TS]

00:24:48   your pain will over $1,500 the casper [TS]

00:24:51   mattresses cost between 500 hours for [TS]

00:24:53   twin all the way up to 9 50 for a king [TS]

00:24:57   and everything in between for the [TS]

00:24:58   various sizes now these prices are [TS]

00:25:00   incredible 954 a high-quality king [TS]

00:25:03   mattress is just unheard of an outcast [TS]

00:25:05   understands that buying a mattress [TS]

00:25:06   online may be wondering how this is [TS]

00:25:09   possible [TS]

00:25:09   so it's completely risk-free and they [TS]

00:25:13   offer free delivery and free returns [TS]

00:25:15   within a hundred day period it's that [TS]

00:25:18   simple so here's how this works [TS]

00:25:19   they shipped the mattress in like a kind [TS]

00:25:22   of file cabinets size box kind of this [TS]

00:25:23   compressed State his phone so it can [TS]

00:25:25   expand when you open it up it expands [TS]

00:25:28   kind of fills the room and then you have [TS]

00:25:29   giant mattress you sleep on it for a [TS]

00:25:31   hundred knights and if you don't like it [TS]

00:25:34   at the end of that you can call them up [TS]

00:25:36   and they will arrange for a free [TS]

00:25:38   painless return those little sense [TS]

00:25:40   monitor your house to pick it up [TS]

00:25:42   all for free so it's totally risk-free [TS]

00:25:44   if you don't like it [TS]

00:25:46   chances are you will though because this [TS]

00:25:48   is an obsessively engineer mattress at a [TS]

00:25:50   shockingly fair price [TS]

00:25:52   the two technologies latex foam memory [TS]

00:25:53   foam come together to give you just the [TS]

00:25:56   right sink just the right balance with [TS]

00:25:58   this risk-free trial return policy [TS]

00:26:00   just try it for a hundred days try [TS]

00:26:01   sleeping on a caster mattress free [TS]

00:26:03   delivery painless returns and these [TS]

00:26:05   mattresses are made in America check it [TS]

00:26:07   out go to Casper dot-com / ATP and you [TS]

00:26:11   can get fifty dollars towards any [TS]

00:26:13   mattress purchase by using code ATP [TS]

00:26:15   terms and conditions do apply to that [TS]

00:26:17   thank you very much too casual for [TS]

00:26:18   sponsoring our show this week alright [TS]

00:26:20   John your crowning moment has come [TS]

00:26:23   tell us about what's going on with your [TS]

00:26:25   TV [TS]

00:26:26   has it come we'll say no more than a [TS]

00:26:29   year ago because we revisited on the [TS]

00:26:31   one-year anniversary more than a year [TS]

00:26:32   ago I banish my playstation 4 from my [TS]

00:26:34   beautiful plasma television because [TS]

00:26:36   mostly what i was doing with my [TS]

00:26:37   playstation 4 was playing destiny and [TS]

00:26:39   destiny had a heads-up display that's [TS]

00:26:41   on-screen the entire time you're playing [TS]

00:26:43   that is a hundred percent opacity and [TS]

00:26:46   doesn't move and doesn't change that [TS]

00:26:48   much and it was burning in my [TS]

00:26:50   disciplinary visited a year later to see [TS]

00:26:52   if the retention had faded and had faded [TS]

00:26:54   to be almost entirely invisible to be [TS]

00:26:56   replaced with the cartoon network logo [TS]

00:26:58   which was also banished from my [TS]

00:26:59   television anyway so when I banish my [TS]

00:27:03   ps4 I got a gaming wonder I brought into [TS]

00:27:05   another room and that's how i've been [TS]

00:27:07   playing destiny still the main thing i [TS]

00:27:09   do with my ps4 since then for more than [TS]

00:27:12   a year now of course when I pulled my [TS]

00:27:14   ps4 from the TV did destiny was new to [TS]

00:27:16   me it wasn't new but I got around the [TS]

00:27:18   time of the first expansion first [TS]

00:27:20   yeah i think the first expansion little [TS]

00:27:22   bit after and I you know complaint on [TS]

00:27:25   the the bungee forms the bungees the [TS]

00:27:27   maker of the game i say it would be nice [TS]

00:27:29   if you had an option to make the HUD [TS]

00:27:31   translucent and/or damn it or you know [TS]

00:27:33   do some other things that would help [TS]

00:27:34   with burning and is it was a big thread [TS]

00:27:37   in their forms mostly consisted of [TS]

00:27:39   people who don't own plasma televisions [TS]

00:27:42   telling everyone who does that they [TS]

00:27:43   shouldn't anymore because they're bad [TS]

00:27:45   and that's why the sugar LED televisions [TS]

00:27:47   helpful internet people it's just a [TS]

00:27:50   bunch of you know kids like they don't [TS]

00:27:52   they don't understand why anyone would [TS]

00:27:53   want a plasma television that the only [TS]

00:27:54   thing they care about is like my LCD [TS]

00:27:56   television or they always called the LED [TS]

00:27:58   television is is great and finding each [TS]

00:28:00   other like kids kids calm down like stop [TS]

00:28:03   fighting about TV you have like we need [TS]

00:28:05   to concentrate on bungie and say bungee [TS]

00:28:06   this seems like an easy feature for you [TS]

00:28:08   to add like translucency seems like it's [TS]

00:28:10   within your grasp graphically speaking [TS]

00:28:11   on the playstation 4 to make the head [TS]

00:28:14   translucent or make it smaller or you [TS]

00:28:17   know many games do this they give you [TS]

00:28:19   options to tweak your HUD are not [TS]

00:28:22   necessarily for burning reasons for [TS]

00:28:23   customization reasons but it helps with [TS]

00:28:25   burning as well [TS]

00:28:26   well you know there isn't there is a [TS]

00:28:27   second option here that they could have [TS]

00:28:29   done you know just never let you stop [TS]

00:28:32   playing destiny because then it doesn't [TS]

00:28:34   matter if it's burned into your TV it's [TS]

00:28:35   always showing anyway if you could [TS]

00:28:36   always play destiny if you never use [TS]

00:28:37   your TV for anything else still matters [TS]

00:28:39   you would think it doesn't matter but it [TS]

00:28:41   does anyway you gotta stop sometime and [TS]

00:28:44   definitely the only thing i did my [TS]

00:28:45   television anyway so the gaming monitor [TS]

00:28:48   i got is obviously does not look as good [TS]

00:28:51   as my television the black levels are [TS]

00:28:53   atrocious the response time is better [TS]

00:28:55   but anyway so that's how I'm playing [TS]

00:28:58   destiny for a year and the big threat in [TS]

00:29:00   the bungee forms bungee like has not [TS]

00:29:03   really said anything official about the [TS]

00:29:04   topic of like other than acknowledging [TS]

00:29:06   we have heard you about this request I [TS]

00:29:09   and you know that they haven't said that [TS]

00:29:12   in promising very very apple-like in [TS]

00:29:13   terms of very acknowledgement that the [TS]

00:29:16   issue has been received but no promises [TS]

00:29:17   that it will ever be addressed let alone [TS]

00:29:19   what time so i imagine my surprise when [TS]

00:29:22   here i am more than a year later bungee [TS]

00:29:25   was previewing some of the content [TS]

00:29:26   they're gonna have in the April update [TS]

00:29:27   destiny and one of the first things they [TS]

00:29:30   showed was the ability to turn off the [TS]

00:29:33   HUD that was mostly the features they [TS]

00:29:35   were touting because people who you do [TS]

00:29:36   movies within the the game or take [TS]

00:29:39   screenshots you know you don't want to [TS]

00:29:40   have the HUD they're sort of you know [TS]

00:29:41   making it less cinematic and make it [TS]

00:29:43   look more like a game so you can drop [TS]

00:29:45   the head for like nicer screenshots and [TS]

00:29:47   movies and stuff but there's also two [TS]

00:29:49   other options of you know full opacity [TS]

00:29:51   high and lower maybe there was a medium [TS]

00:29:53   level didn't really get to see what [TS]

00:29:55   those look like in the game but they [TS]

00:29:56   were their settings wise so there will [TS]

00:29:58   be options to turn down the hut I don't [TS]

00:30:01   know if the low setting is low enough to [TS]

00:30:02   prevent image retention that's not my [TS]

00:30:05   problem my first problem is that i spent [TS]

00:30:08   a year playing destiny connected to a [TS]

00:30:10   gaming monitor and I'm kind of used to [TS]

00:30:12   it in terms of if I was to go back on [TS]

00:30:15   the television i would feel like I'm [TS]

00:30:16   really far away from the screen even [TS]

00:30:17   though you know you can do the math that [TS]

00:30:19   my television screens much bigger but [TS]

00:30:21   the distance wise i wouldn't be able to [TS]

00:30:23   see as much detail [TS]

00:30:24   I'm used to being closer to the screen [TS]

00:30:26   close enough to like see the pixels [TS]

00:30:28   because not a Retina Display it's just [TS]

00:30:30   you know a 1080 HD display just like my [TS]

00:30:32   television but i'm sitting like two feet [TS]

00:30:34   from it instead of eight feet away and [TS]

00:30:37   the other thing is when I mentioned [TS]

00:30:38   potentially bring the playstation 4 back [TS]

00:30:40   in my wife I said said that she was not [TS]

00:30:43   for this idea because that will just [TS]

00:30:45   lead to more fighting between my son who [TS]

00:30:47   wants to play star wars battlefront and [TS]

00:30:48   my daughter wants to watch television [TS]

00:30:49   shows so it's better when they can be in [TS]

00:30:52   separate rooms [TS]

00:30:53   during the thing they want to do without [TS]

00:30:54   fighting over the big TV so it seems to [TS]

00:30:57   me that despite my dreams coming true [TS]

00:30:59   here potentially the dimming might not [TS]

00:31:02   be sufficient to prevent burning and the [TS]

00:31:04   other thing is and the two issues are [TS]

00:31:06   I'm kind of used to it i'm sitting two [TS]

00:31:08   feet from my monitor I'm kinda used to [TS]

00:31:10   playing that way at this point and for [TS]

00:31:13   the the harmony of the family [TS]

00:31:15   it may be better to keep my playstation [TS]

00:31:17   4 in here now if they come with the [TS]

00:31:19   PlayStation 4.5 as the rumors are that a [TS]

00:31:21   slightly more powerful playstation 4 [TS]

00:31:23   with that more power potentially being [TS]

00:31:25   helpful to the PlayStation VR which I [TS]

00:31:27   may eventually by i would buy a [TS]

00:31:29   playstation 4.5 and connected to the TV [TS]

00:31:31   so we have to play stations and my son [TS]

00:31:33   and I can play definitely the same time [TS]

00:31:35   finally and my wife and i like that even [TS]

00:31:37   less but i would kind of have a [TS]

00:31:39   quote-unquote excuse well it's not i'm [TS]

00:31:40   not getting a second playstation this is [TS]

00:31:42   the better playstation and where else am [TS]

00:31:43   I gonna put it I don't have a room from [TS]

00:31:45   the game honor it's got to be connected [TS]

00:31:46   TV so this is a complicated situation [TS]

00:31:48   but if somebody who bought a ps4 only a [TS]

00:31:51   few months ago that really annoys made [TS]

00:31:53   that rumor [TS]

00:31:54   well it's only it's only rumor now and [TS]

00:31:56   the extra power like probably wouldn't [TS]

00:31:59   be a big deal because you probably just [TS]

00:32:00   before be four vr which will probably [TS]

00:32:02   buy anyway honest you know like aren't [TS]

00:32:03   you going to buy playstation vr typical [TS]

00:32:05   make you buy it i would like to see it i [TS]

00:32:07   mean i i'm not sure i will buy it but I [TS]

00:32:09   think it's at least somewhat likely just [TS]

00:32:11   because I I I don't plan to build a [TS]

00:32:14   giant gaming pc to try the oculus right [TS]

00:32:16   so it is that this is kind of like the [TS]

00:32:18   the alternative to that for more casual [TS]

00:32:20   people like me so I think that's I will [TS]

00:32:23   i would like to see it [TS]

00:32:24   yeah it's cheap enough they're like you [TS]

00:32:25   know what fine ever i'm going to give it [TS]

00:32:27   a try this is giving an honest shot you [TS]

00:32:29   know you're not gonna be like oh it [TS]

00:32:30   would be better if I had a better [TS]

00:32:31   playstation know it'll be you know it [TS]

00:32:34   will be what it is the experience will [TS]

00:32:35   be consistent you can try it out and [TS]

00:32:37   find out if it's terrible or not so [TS]

00:32:38   that's that's been my plan as well but i [TS]

00:32:41   would like a playstation 4.5 anyway they [TS]

00:32:43   propped it looks interesting [TS]

00:32:45   121 infusion I know I knew I shouldn't [TS]

00:32:47   have it used that a heroine anguish [TS]

00:32:49   addressed and that i had 320 drop that [TS]

00:32:51   was just saving and saving it like just [TS]

00:32:53   yesterday I was like you know what I [TS]

00:32:55   should just infuse that into my three on [TS]

00:32:57   my mind why the hell not i know i'm [TS]

00:32:59   going to lose a lot of points but pretty [TS]

00:33:00   soon 333 35 stuff is gonna be dropping [TS]

00:33:02   anyways there's no point in saving 320 [TS]

00:33:04   thank god i saved it [TS]

00:33:06   121 few [TS]

00:33:06   coming in april this ends the gibberish [TS]

00:33:08   portion of the episode yet Casey is John [TS]

00:33:11   ok I don't know who you think should we [TS]

00:33:13   call somebody a hand on heart I'm not [TS]

00:33:15   trying to be funny I really thought that [TS]

00:33:17   I just spaced out in the conversation [TS]

00:33:19   when a totally different direction i was [TS]

00:33:21   trying feverishly to catch up and figure [TS]

00:33:23   out what the crap jobs just saying and [TS]

00:33:25   then o.o is just talking destiny get [TS]

00:33:27   nevermind i owe next next we'll have [TS]

00:33:30   Marco tell us about watch terminology i [TS]

00:33:34   can't even I can't even write those that [TS]

00:33:36   are we good with follow-up any other [TS]

00:33:37   follow-up gentlemen [TS]

00:33:38   well done excellent alright so i don't [TS]

00:33:42   recall exactly when this happened i [TS]

00:33:43   think is a little over a week ago but [TS]

00:33:45   last episode we were busy talking about [TS]

00:33:47   the apple event sweetie and didn't get a [TS]

00:33:48   chance to talk about it some things [TS]

00:33:50   happened in the nodejs world last week [TS]

00:33:53   some interesting things we have a link [TS]

00:33:56   in the show notes to Heaney codes dotnet [TS]

00:33:59   which is sharing my experiences as a [TS]

00:34:01   programmer in c-sharp net and [TS]

00:34:03   engineering manager and this person [TS]

00:34:05   whose name I don't know whether than any [TS]

00:34:08   anyway uh they wrote a very quick [TS]

00:34:10   article about or a reasonably quick [TS]

00:34:12   article about what happened on NPM and [TS]

00:34:15   and I'm gonna take a stab as the [TS]

00:34:17   summarizer in chief and you guys can [TS]

00:34:19   interrupt when you're ready [TS]

00:34:20   there was a person who had put up a [TS]

00:34:23   package called qik k ik and the what is [TS]

00:34:28   it a chat app or something like that the [TS]

00:34:30   people who run that got in touch with [TS]

00:34:32   him and were upset that he was you he [TS]

00:34:34   had a package that I don't think it were [TS]

00:34:36   in any way related to kick the app how [TS]

00:34:39   to package that just have the same name [TS]

00:34:40   and so they told him he should take down [TS]

00:34:44   he said no and then I guess they went to [TS]

00:34:46   NPM which is the package manager node [TS]

00:34:49   package manager that that that you use [TS]

00:34:51   with node and they got em p.m. to take [TS]

00:34:54   it down and he then this this gentleman [TS]

00:34:57   decided to rage quit npm and remove all [TS]

00:35:01   this packages so far this is a kind of [TS]

00:35:04   amusing but unremarkable story except [TS]

00:35:08   that one of the packages that he removed [TS]

00:35:10   was a package that was called left pad [TS]

00:35:14   was it like 12 line string function [TS]

00:35:16   yes you are right it is called left pad [TS]

00:35:18   it is a 12 line or 11 line [TS]

00:35:20   function that just pads a string on the [TS]

00:35:22   left-hand side and apparently a lot of [TS]

00:35:25   very popular packages took this as a [TS]

00:35:30   dependency so in other words you know [TS]

00:35:32   when you're writing code in in the [TS]

00:35:34   modern times you usually have a package [TS]

00:35:36   manager something like cocoa pods or new [TS]

00:35:38   get or npm or what is pearl use [TS]

00:35:41   something ancient something ancient yeah [TS]

00:35:44   everything in pearls ancient something [TS]

00:35:46   with actual tests that run against the [TS]

00:35:47   code so you can tell I couldn't resist [TS]

00:35:51   but that's Sipan right or something like [TS]

00:35:53   that [TS]

00:35:53   you got it okay so-so out most modern [TS]

00:35:56   development platforms and pearl have a [TS]

00:35:59   package manager here and npm is 144 this [TS]

00:36:02   and when you have this package manager [TS]

00:36:04   makes it very easy to import somebody [TS]

00:36:05   else's code so apparently what all of [TS]

00:36:07   these packages did including some very [TS]

00:36:12   very very popular ones they imported [TS]

00:36:14   this left package in this entire package [TS]

00:36:15   was eleven lines of code when this [TS]

00:36:17   package disappeared that meant that [TS]

00:36:19   anyone who had already downloaded it was [TS]

00:36:21   was ok but if you try to say code on a [TS]

00:36:25   new machine or in many cases redeploy [TS]

00:36:27   then this package was gone and all of a [TS]

00:36:30   sudden everything broke and because so [TS]

00:36:32   many popular packages took this as it as [TS]

00:36:34   a sub dependency if you will like half [TS]

00:36:37   of the note ecosystem broke and this was [TS]

00:36:39   really chapping a lot of people's butts [TS]

00:36:42   because a lot of the really smug [TS]

00:36:45   developers most of them pretty much all [TS]

00:36:48   from your right said why would you take [TS]

00:36:50   an 11 line dependency why not just write [TS]

00:36:52   those 11 lines yourself or just or just [TS]

00:36:55   put them somewhere in your project [TS]

00:36:57   somewhere in your control and there's a [TS]

00:36:59   big kerfuffle about it and I as someone [TS]

00:37:02   who has written a node app which is my [TS]

00:37:05   blog and i just recently reran clock [TS]

00:37:10   which is count lines of code on my blog [TS]

00:37:12   and I put up a short blog post about it [TS]

00:37:14   which will put the show notes the [TS]

00:37:15   entirety of my blog engine in terms of [TS]

00:37:19   the things that i have written is 850 [TS]

00:37:21   lines of code then I did a count lines [TS]

00:37:23   of code my note packages for node [TS]

00:37:25   modules folder and that was a hundred [TS]

00:37:27   and eighty thousand lines of code [TS]

00:37:29   cool i'm not really one to throw stones [TS]

00:37:32   on this issue but nevertheless I don't [TS]

00:37:36   think it's really useful to poop all [TS]

00:37:40   over package managers and the idea of [TS]

00:37:43   taking dependencies just carpet lunch [TS]

00:37:45   it's a bad idea i don't think that's [TS]

00:37:47   necessarily true i do think however that [TS]

00:37:49   taking 11 line dependency is a bit [TS]

00:37:51   ridiculous so Marco as chief curmudgeon [TS]

00:37:54   when it comes to these sorts of things [TS]

00:37:56   what are your thoughts first of all I [TS]

00:37:58   think Jon might be even more commercial [TS]

00:38:00   than me on the head but your bike around [TS]

00:38:01   i'm at least better known for for [TS]

00:38:04   avoiding dependencies like this and the [TS]

00:38:06   reason why i avoid dependencies as much [TS]

00:38:09   as I can is not because I've always been [TS]

00:38:12   like this it's because of experiences [TS]

00:38:14   that I had mostly during the early days [TS]

00:38:16   of tumblr lots of things that we used in [TS]

00:38:19   the early days broke lots of third-party [TS]

00:38:21   components lots of application layer [TS]

00:38:24   stuff you know infrastructure components [TS]

00:38:27   that were not very widely used were very [TS]

00:38:28   young or were not designed to be used at [TS]

00:38:31   big scales but most of the most of the [TS]

00:38:34   problems we had were third-party PHP [TS]

00:38:37   modules no third-party PHP code written [TS]

00:38:39   by other people that we imported so we [TS]

00:38:41   wouldn't have to write our own functions [TS]

00:38:42   for things like s3 or image resizing [TS]

00:38:45   stuff like that we had so many problems [TS]

00:38:48   with this code especially the freaking [TS]

00:38:51   zend framework I don't know if it's good [TS]

00:38:53   now but it sure wasn't then we had we [TS]

00:38:55   had so many problems with like almost [TS]

00:38:58   every third party library that we used [TS]

00:39:00   that we eventually just said you know [TS]

00:39:03   we're just going to not use any anymore [TS]

00:39:05   because it every time we would use one [TS]

00:39:07   literally not just sometimes literally [TS]

00:39:10   the majority of the time [TS]

00:39:12   six months later we would be ripping it [TS]

00:39:15   out and replacing it with either another [TS]

00:39:17   third-party one that breaks much after [TS]

00:39:18   that or finally be right around because [TS]

00:39:20   they were they just were of low quality [TS]

00:39:22   and we're not designed for you know [TS]

00:39:24   high-needs environment or not designed [TS]

00:39:27   for edge cases or whatever else because [TS]

00:39:29   a lot of third-party code out there you [TS]

00:39:31   know there's there's this myth that that [TS]

00:39:34   open source stuff will be really well [TS]

00:39:35   tested and and we'll kind of you like [TS]

00:39:37   battle-hardened and you can rely on more [TS]

00:39:40   than stuff you write yourself but that's [TS]

00:39:42   only true [TS]

00:39:43   sometimes it's only true for some things [TS]

00:39:44   that's and that's how true that is is [TS]

00:39:48   kind of a function of how popular that [TS]

00:39:50   code is so if you're using something [TS]

00:39:51   that is in use by everybody from [TS]

00:39:54   facebook down to cases blog engine [TS]

00:39:57   chances are that's been well tested and [TS]

00:39:59   the bugs have been found in the edge [TS]

00:40:00   cases have been hit and you're not gonna [TS]

00:40:01   be the biggest person using it and [TS]

00:40:03   you're not going to hit many problems [TS]

00:40:05   but it when you're just pulling in [TS]

00:40:07   third-party code from a lot of things [TS]

00:40:09   it's often hard to tell whether what [TS]

00:40:11   you're pulling in is of that level of [TS]

00:40:13   quality or not and when you're it when [TS]

00:40:16   you're in a young language or a module [TS]

00:40:18   for doing something that most people [TS]

00:40:20   don't need to do kind of like an itch [TS]

00:40:21   module I don't have transmitted by the [TS]

00:40:23   way I don't know it's a nice niche I [TS]

00:40:25   forget it but I every time i say that i [TS]

00:40:29   worry about that i'm the same way i'm [TS]

00:40:31   right there with good okay so we'll just [TS]

00:40:32   agree that we're pronouncing it badly [TS]

00:40:34   anyway so that the let the fewer and [TS]

00:40:38   fewer people use the thing you're [TS]

00:40:39   working on a few big people use it the [TS]

00:40:41   less reliable it inherently is simply by [TS]

00:40:44   being open source or third party or [TS]

00:40:46   whatever so I just learned over time [TS]

00:40:48   that I was better off writing stuff [TS]

00:40:52   myself and avoiding dependencies even [TS]

00:40:55   when they work well they can cause [TS]

00:40:56   issues like when the version of [TS]

00:40:58   something changes and it breaks other [TS]

00:40:59   things and package managers can solve [TS]

00:41:02   problems like that most of the time but [TS]

00:41:04   I've never seen a single one that solve [TS]

00:41:06   them all of the time in anything linux [TS]

00:41:09   languages and I mean like you're at it [TS]

00:41:11   when you add dependencies like this [TS]

00:41:12   willy-nilly you're really just adding [TS]

00:41:15   work and risk and the idea that like you [TS]

00:41:18   won't be able to deploy your site on to [TS]

00:41:21   new servers because the original host of [TS]

00:41:24   this 11 line function took it down like [TS]

00:41:27   that's crazy lee there are so many [TS]

00:41:30   problems with that sound just crazy to [TS]

00:41:32   me like why are you not in control of [TS]

00:41:33   that I don't know it as somebody who was [TS]

00:41:36   run large scale services before every [TS]

00:41:39   dependency like that just to me is a [TS]

00:41:41   huge liability and occasionally it is [TS]

00:41:43   worth using third-party code but i think [TS]

00:41:46   it's a lot less often than what people [TS]

00:41:49   seem to be doing these days [TS]

00:41:51   well everybody builds on top of [TS]

00:41:52   something I mean it's not like you're [TS]

00:41:54   saying oh I was using the compiler [TS]

00:41:56   they came with my system but eventually [TS]

00:41:57   learned how to write my own compiler you [TS]

00:41:58   know i was using the OS the chip with my [TS]

00:42:00   service but eventually I learned that [TS]

00:42:02   it's wasteful to try to rely on linux [TS]

00:42:04   you never know what the hell they're [TS]

00:42:04   going to do and they can break your crab [TS]

00:42:06   so it's better to write your own OS like [TS]

00:42:07   we all right we all go on top of [TS]

00:42:08   something it's all just a question of [TS]

00:42:09   where you draw that line and why so [TS]

00:42:11   there's sort of for most of our lives [TS]

00:42:13   been the idea that like no ones you're [TS]

00:42:15   not going to write your own OS and your [TS]

00:42:17   own compiler and maybe you're not even [TS]

00:42:19   your own web server but if you're [TS]

00:42:21   writing web applications at a certain [TS]

00:42:22   point around the web server code [TS]

00:42:24   boundary then it's like now it's kind of [TS]

00:42:25   more programs do you use an application [TS]

00:42:28   framework we write your own framework it [TS]

00:42:30   was a type of thing where you can write [TS]

00:42:32   your own web framework like it's not you [TS]

00:42:34   know that's how all the ones we have got [TS]

00:42:35   here like it doesn't take a 719 do it [TS]

00:42:38   one person can do it [TS]

00:42:39   yeah I did you use one of the popular if [TS]

00:42:41   you use one of the popular third-party [TS]

00:42:42   one's chances and you happen to be and [TS]

00:42:46   marcos unfortunate / fortunate situation [TS]

00:42:48   of you end up being you know it maybe [TS]

00:42:52   perhaps unexpectedly one of the biggest [TS]

00:42:54   users of everything you do because you [TS]

00:42:56   are tremendous all of a sudden you know [TS]

00:42:57   the compound growth or whatever and let [TS]

00:42:59   me point out to tumblr was not that [TS]

00:43:02   tremendous we started having these [TS]

00:43:03   problems you know we probably had maybe [TS]

00:43:05   a hundred thousand users when all this [TS]

00:43:07   started breaking it wasn't that big of a [TS]

00:43:09   service like relative to what you [TS]

00:43:11   consider like a scaled or scalable web [TS]

00:43:13   service it was nothing [TS]

00:43:14   well I mean yeah sometimes when people [TS]

00:43:17   hit start going to facebook is a great [TS]

00:43:18   example they were using a similar [TS]

00:43:21   technology stack and their solution was [TS]

00:43:23   throw people and money at the problem to [TS]

00:43:26   the point where they were compiling see [TS]

00:43:27   that PHP and to c++ and crazy stuff like [TS]

00:43:29   that that's another possible approach [TS]

00:43:31   you know like and I don't know if they [TS]

00:43:33   decided to write everything themselves [TS]

00:43:34   they got down and we're going to rewrite [TS]

00:43:36   the language ourselves and what is that [TS]

00:43:37   hip-hop their replacement thing or [TS]

00:43:39   whatever but those are those I feel like [TS]

00:43:41   your extremes i think for the most part [TS]

00:43:44   most companies that are doing web [TS]

00:43:46   development i don't know if i'm gonna [TS]

00:43:49   say for the most part maybe it's 5050 [TS]

00:43:50   are using in-house web frameworks it in [TS]

00:43:53   the modern error though there are so [TS]

00:43:55   many popular web frameworks that work [TS]

00:43:56   for so many needs that it's accepted [TS]

00:44:00   that you're going to build on top of [TS]

00:44:00   them i think we're there to places with [TS]

00:44:03   us this silly javascript and only three [TS]

00:44:04   places silly javascript stuff fell down [TS]

00:44:06   one is an area that I'm familiar with [TS]

00:44:09   because javascript is a crap language [TS]

00:44:12   that is missing really important things [TS]

00:44:14   that people want right and pearl started [TS]

00:44:18   out as a crap language that was missing [TS]

00:44:19   many important things that people wanted [TS]

00:44:21   and still do today is missing some [TS]

00:44:23   things that people want which means that [TS]

00:44:25   to sort of to sort of round out your [TS]

00:44:27   language ruby has a little bit of degree [TS]

00:44:29   2 because they they considered an asset [TS]

00:44:30   to sort of round out your language and [TS]

00:44:32   make it a habitable you know to make it [TS]

00:44:35   comfortable [TS]

00:44:35   there's a minimal amount of sort of [TS]

00:44:37   furniture you need to buy for the house [TS]

00:44:38   before you can move in and it's not part [TS]

00:44:40   of the language that's it you know done [TS]

00:44:42   in libraries right so javascript is [TS]

00:44:45   definitely in that situation which is [TS]

00:44:47   why there's all these things like you [TS]

00:44:48   know CoffeeScript and and type script [TS]

00:44:50   and other things that are like try to [TS]

00:44:51   make JavaScript feel nicer those are [TS]

00:44:53   libraries but the same idea that that no [TS]

00:44:55   one wants to just use drop script by [TS]

00:44:56   itself because even basic things like [TS]

00:44:59   say left padding a string are not in the [TS]

00:45:02   language or the standard library or [TS]

00:45:04   standard library is defined as what you [TS]

00:45:05   can run your browser right so someone's [TS]

00:45:07   got to write this stupid 11 line [TS]

00:45:08   function right not in PHP they don't [TS]

00:45:10   there are you know I know I like the is [TS]

00:45:12   array packages talking about like this [TS]

00:45:13   the common test and people want to do [TS]

00:45:15   that's not in the language that it's [TS]

00:45:16   easy to write but it's also easy to get [TS]

00:45:18   wrong it's just kind of like a basic [TS]

00:45:19   thing right so you want to do that PHP [TS]

00:45:21   either [TS]

00:45:21   yeah just JavaScript not nor pearl by [TS]

00:45:23   the way javascript is in that position [TS]

00:45:25   and so that's why these things exist the [TS]

00:45:27   second problem is the JavaScript [TS]

00:45:30   community not sort of having their act [TS]

00:45:33   together enough to realize all right so [TS]

00:45:35   we have this language that has these [TS]

00:45:36   gaps the best way to fill them is not [TS]

00:45:38   with 10 billion individual dependencies [TS]

00:45:41   each of which has one of those function [TS]

00:45:43   like as a community they should have you [TS]

00:45:46   know sort of come together and settled [TS]

00:45:48   on some much larger libraries are like [TS]

00:45:51   and round out the JavaScript language [TS]

00:45:52   for me live one point out right and [TS]

00:45:55   maybe the seven competing ones of those [TS]

00:45:56   but in that is much better than under [TS]

00:45:59   left pad i'm going to do sane regular [TS]

00:46:01   expression matching i know i'm going to [TS]

00:46:03   do take inheritance in a prototype based [TS]

00:46:05   language and you know everyone sort of [TS]

00:46:07   just doing the little tiny thing and and [TS]

00:46:10   having a million of those combined and I [TS]

00:46:12   think the third failure for all the [TS]

00:46:13   people who got hit by this bug is people [TS]

00:46:17   who grew up in an environment [TS]

00:46:19   where the expectation is that you can [TS]

00:46:22   run your deploy at and part of the [TS]

00:46:25   deployment or updating a singer whatever [TS]

00:46:27   automated procedure they have that [TS]

00:46:30   they're all happy with their not [TS]

00:46:32   thinking about the fact that it is [TS]

00:46:33   connected to third-party service to do [TS]

00:46:35   that right if you're just slightly older [TS]

00:46:37   if you're like you know maybe 10 or 20 [TS]

00:46:40   years older than the people who are [TS]

00:46:42   running to these problems you would have [TS]

00:46:44   grown up in a culture like I did where [TS]

00:46:46   you know you're building on top of pearl [TS]

00:46:48   their gaps and pearl and you need to [TS]

00:46:50   libraries there's web frameworks maybe [TS]

00:46:52   writing your own you but certainly [TS]

00:46:53   you're building on top of some real [TS]

00:46:54   basics like DVI lwp or whatever help you [TS]

00:46:57   know the sort of core foundational [TS]

00:46:59   things that most people use Pro wanna do [TS]

00:47:01   but if you're in a big important company [TS]

00:47:03   you don't go out to cpanel to get these [TS]

00:47:07   packages right you have your own [TS]

00:47:08   internal Sipan mirror at your company [TS]

00:47:11   checked into version control so you know [TS]

00:47:12   exactly what the hell you're getting and [TS]

00:47:14   nothing anybody can do on the internet [TS]

00:47:15   it's gonna change what you deploy like [TS]

00:47:17   the only nothing is going to break your [TS]

00:47:19   stuff based on what's on the internet [TS]

00:47:21   and you maintain that mirror and you [TS]

00:47:22   sink upstream and downstream and you [TS]

00:47:24   like you control your own destiny [TS]

00:47:27   it's tons of third-party software like a [TS]

00:47:28   cpn mirror especially back in the old [TS]

00:47:30   days was pretty darn big and it's like [TS]

00:47:31   why do we have to have our own Sipan [TS]

00:47:32   mirror-like because you don't want to [TS]

00:47:35   rely on stop on the internet when I mean [TS]

00:47:38   sick for security reasons alone like so [TS]

00:47:39   that the idea that pulling something [TS]

00:47:41   from repository break people's [TS]

00:47:43   production systems those production [TS]

00:47:45   systems were pre-broken not by the fact [TS]

00:47:47   they were just by the fact they're [TS]

00:47:48   relying on third-party code not just by [TS]

00:47:50   the fact that they're at their third [TS]

00:47:51   party dependencies are broken down into [TS]

00:47:53   microscopic individual functions with [TS]

00:47:54   ridiculous names but because they [TS]

00:47:57   weren't they weren't masters of their [TS]

00:47:58   own destiny matter what you choose to do [TS]

00:48:00   in terms of dependencies and you decide [TS]

00:48:02   based on market was talking about you [TS]

00:48:04   know is it reliable is it suitable for [TS]

00:48:05   my purpose and I better off doing it [TS]

00:48:07   myself [TS]

00:48:07   is it a core competency but like all [TS]

00:48:09   these sorts of decisions eventually [TS]

00:48:11   you're going to do everything you're [TS]

00:48:12   going to do some things with third-party [TS]

00:48:13   code whether it's your wet RS your [TS]

00:48:14   compiler or whatever but especially if [TS]

00:48:16   its package management you have to have [TS]

00:48:17   that stuff in-house and these days it is [TS]

00:48:19   nothing to have a complete mirror of [TS]

00:48:21   some public repository in your you know [TS]

00:48:25   that it or just the individual packages [TS]

00:48:27   you want to check them into your version [TS]

00:48:28   control you don't need the whole freakin [TS]

00:48:29   repository the repository don't need to [TS]

00:48:31   be involved in your [TS]

00:48:32   golden deployment process just get the [TS]

00:48:34   code that you need and then that code [TS]

00:48:35   will never change out from under you if [TS]

00:48:36   it suited your purposes will continue to [TS]

00:48:38   be suitable until you decide that it's [TS]

00:48:40   not right [TS]

00:48:42   in summary whippersnappers well I don't [TS]

00:48:51   even know where to go from here [TS]

00:48:52   all I will say is that it's interesting [TS]

00:48:55   that you that you bring up like [TS]

00:48:57   deployment because one of the things [TS]

00:48:59   that I was thinking about when this was [TS]

00:49:01   all going down [TS]

00:49:02   was that when i deploy camel to heroku [TS]

00:49:06   what I'm deploying it's just my code [TS]

00:49:09   including my my list of dependencies and [TS]

00:49:13   just like you said John heroku is then [TS]

00:49:16   going out 10pm and fetching all of these [TS]

00:49:19   packages on my behalf so this very well [TS]

00:49:22   could have bitten me if myself or one of [TS]

00:49:25   the packages I depend on was dependent [TS]

00:49:28   on the one that got pulled so this is [TS]

00:49:31   this is exactly something that I could [TS]

00:49:34   have run into because of the way I [TS]

00:49:36   choose to host my site and I choose to [TS]

00:49:38   host onto on heroku for a variety of [TS]

00:49:39   reasons but mostly like you said about [TS]

00:49:41   core competencies I don't have the time [TS]

00:49:43   interest or desire to be a linux server [TS]

00:49:46   admin and so I choose for better or [TS]

00:49:49   worse to have a platform as a service [TS]

00:49:52   and that's what I like and I and worse [TS]

00:49:53   with fine but that's what i like and [TS]

00:49:56   that's what and that's what works for me [TS]

00:49:57   that's how i've chosen to do it and yes [TS]

00:49:59   there are ways around this even with [TS]

00:50:01   heroku but but my point is even an [TS]

00:50:05   innocent bystander like myself I am I am [TS]

00:50:07   potentially guilty of doing the same [TS]

00:50:09   thing that's weird to me that like that [TS]

00:50:12   you know i don't really matter [TS]

00:50:14   practically speaking that you're pulling [TS]

00:50:15   from the internet as you deployed [TS]

00:50:18   wouldn't I don't understand why that [TS]

00:50:20   needs to be I dynamic part of the [TS]

00:50:21   process like that that's that I feel [TS]

00:50:24   like that should be pulled down like the [TS]

00:50:26   same way you pull some cocoa pods and [TS]

00:50:28   out part of your application every time [TS]

00:50:30   you compile it doesn't redownloaded from [TS]

00:50:31   cocoa pods and silently updated to a [TS]

00:50:33   different version or get it like or just [TS]

00:50:35   you never actually have it and like I [TS]

00:50:37   know it's like more dynamic and just [TS]

00:50:39   like oh all this interconnected web and [TS]

00:50:41   network connectors never go down and I [TS]

00:50:42   can trust what's on the other side of [TS]

00:50:43   the network [TS]

00:50:44   but I I don't understand how you can [TS]

00:50:46   trust that honestly I mean I don't even [TS]

00:50:48   know this is maybe this is another weird [TS]

00:50:50   CP anything but like what kind of [TS]

00:50:51   security is therefore if you're [TS]

00:50:53   dynamically pulling every time you [TS]

00:50:54   deploy you're just trusting you don't [TS]

00:50:56   even know what the hell [TS]

00:50:57   npm repositories Hiroko is using and how [TS]

00:51:00   they might be poisoned with what I don't [TS]

00:51:01   get this matter of personal side is not [TS]

00:51:03   does not add specific issues just the [TS]

00:51:05   culture of the same culture that gives [TS]

00:51:07   you websites that n dot IO to implore [TS]

00:51:09   you to you know run curl and pipe it [TS]

00:51:12   through back you know man I'm exact kind [TS]

00:51:15   of culture it's kind of like a return to [TS]

00:51:18   return to the really old days when when [TS]

00:51:21   I was first starting unix-like it I've [TS]

00:51:22   told the story before it bu all TTYL [TS]

00:51:24   world writable right that's how naive [TS]

00:51:26   way they were like that was telling that [TS]

00:51:27   there was no ssh your passwords are [TS]

00:51:29   flying in plain text every time you tell [TS]

00:51:31   méditerranée p anywhere all TTYL world [TS]

00:51:33   writable it was like that the free love [TS]

00:51:35   sixties right and that era came to an [TS]

00:51:38   end but then you know fast-forward 20 or [TS]

00:51:40   30 years and people are are pulling from [TS]

00:51:43   an unknown website and piping to their [TS]

00:51:44   shell sometimes they have pseudo in [TS]

00:51:47   there any like someone just put in the [TS]

00:51:48   chat room sometimes they'll be like [TS]

00:51:49   seriously I'm gonna pull from a website [TS]

00:51:51   and pipe pseudo SH I don't know some [TS]

00:51:56   it's a utopian world that a has never [TS]

00:51:59   actually really existed and cannot be [TS]

00:52:01   recreated by wishing it were true only [TS]

00:52:04   good decided realize that the websites [TS]

00:52:09   that ended die or inherently bad this is [TS]

00:52:12   news to me it's the whipper snappers who [TS]

00:52:14   is the whipper snappers have you seen [TS]

00:52:16   you've seen the websites i'm talking [TS]

00:52:17   right like some some some cool new [TS]

00:52:19   technology and they have a website and [TS]

00:52:21   that I oh and their installation [TS]

00:52:22   procedure wants you to just run a curl [TS]

00:52:25   command pipe it into a shell like no [TS]

00:52:28   thanks [TS]

00:52:28   no thank you i will not do that i mean [TS]

00:52:30   is it any really any better when they [TS]

00:52:32   had like you know she'll archives you [TS]

00:52:33   down like char files and you just run [TS]

00:52:35   those blindly maybe it wasn't that much [TS]

00:52:37   better but I feel like you're crossing a [TS]

00:52:39   line when the network is involved and [TS]

00:52:41   you're just like blindly trusting that's [TS]

00:52:43   going over a wire that you just allowing [TS]

00:52:45   to execute on your machine you just [TS]

00:52:47   pulled off a website because that is the [TS]

00:52:49   same as as downloading you know unknown [TS]

00:52:51   binaries you know like you can [TS]

00:52:53   everything's turned completely [TS]

00:52:53   understand how it's all equivalent and [TS]

00:52:55   then [TS]

00:52:55   really that different and it's like Oh [TS]

00:52:56   kids these days right but there is a [TS]

00:52:58   difference some there's a reason like we [TS]

00:53:00   moved to sign the binaries and all sorts [TS]

00:53:02   of cryptographic things to assure us [TS]

00:53:04   that at the very least the the [TS]

00:53:06   application comes from the the person [TS]

00:53:08   with incomes from it hasn't been altered [TS]

00:53:10   there's a reason that is rolled out on [TS]

00:53:12   you know phone platforms and 2 s % [TS]

00:53:14   desktop platforms and game consoles and [TS]

00:53:16   everything like that and the modern [TS]

00:53:18   practice of executing arbitrary code [TS]

00:53:21   pulled from websites in your shell flies [TS]

00:53:24   in the face of that progress we also [TS]

00:53:26   sponsor this week by warby parker who [TS]

00:53:28   makes buying glasses online easy and [TS]

00:53:31   risk-free go to warby parker calm / ATP [TS]

00:53:34   and order your FREE Home try ons today [TS]

00:53:37   warby parker offers contemporary [TS]

00:53:38   eyeglass that are extremely affordable [TS]

00:53:40   and fashion-forward glass should be [TS]

00:53:43   viewed as a fashion accessory and they [TS]

00:53:44   they shouldn't need to cost as much as [TS]

00:53:46   an iphone so you can have more than one [TS]

00:53:47   pair if you want now where Parker offers [TS]

00:53:50   prescription eyeglasses starting at just [TS]

00:53:51   $95 including prescription lenses that's [TS]

00:53:54   cheaper than even the iphone SE at the [TS]

00:53:57   titanium collection starts just 245 [TS]

00:53:59   dollars including prescription lenses [TS]

00:54:00   with premium Japanese titanium and [TS]

00:54:02   French non rocking screws something [TS]

00:54:04   watch terminology huh [TS]

00:54:06   they offer prescription and [TS]

00:54:07   non-prescription sunglasses so even here [TS]

00:54:09   2020 there is something for you at Warby [TS]

00:54:11   Parker now it will all work classes [TS]

00:54:14   include anti-reflective anti-glare [TS]

00:54:16   coatings an excellent hard case and [TS]

00:54:18   cleaning cloth all no additional charge [TS]

00:54:20   they don't want nickel-and-dime you now [TS]

00:54:22   whether your eyesight is good pretty [TS]

00:54:25   good or absolutely abysmal they have you [TS]

00:54:27   covered with a wide range of [TS]

00:54:28   prescription options from simple reading [TS]

00:54:30   glasses to advanced digital freeform [TS]

00:54:33   progressive lenses for those of you with [TS]

00:54:35   very strong prescription they also offer [TS]

00:54:36   ultra-thin high index lenses that avoid [TS]

00:54:39   the whole you know coke bottle look from [TS]

00:54:41   all that thickness now my glasses online [TS]

00:54:44   sounds tricky but they make it easy and [TS]

00:54:46   risk-free the home try-on program let [TS]

00:54:49   you order five pairs of glasses to [TS]

00:54:51   evaluate at home for free they ship them [TS]

00:54:53   to you for free to try them on in the [TS]

00:54:55   comfort of your home and get feedback [TS]

00:54:56   from people in real life if you want to [TS]

00:54:58   you can keep these frames for up to five [TS]

00:55:00   days then you send them back also for [TS]

00:55:03   free with their prepaid return label and [TS]

00:55:05   there's no obligation to purchase after [TS]

00:55:07   all that if they're not for you [TS]

00:55:09   you can stop right there you spent [TS]

00:55:10   nothing if they are right for you work [TS]

00:55:13   Parker will get started on your order [TS]

00:55:14   right away and they can get prescription [TS]

00:55:16   glasses to you within 10 business days [TS]

00:55:18   at most and usually even faster than [TS]

00:55:20   that and they also believe in giving [TS]

00:55:21   back to the world for every pair of [TS]

00:55:22   glasses they sell they distribute [TS]

00:55:24   another pair to somebody in need through [TS]

00:55:25   various vision charities so whether you [TS]

00:55:27   could use a nice pair of eyeglasses [TS]

00:55:28   reading glasses or even just sunglasses [TS]

00:55:31   go to worry Parker calm / ATP to order [TS]

00:55:33   your FREE Home try on today with free [TS]

00:55:36   shipping both ways and no obligation to [TS]

00:55:37   buy once again it's worry Parker calm / [TS]

00:55:40   ATP thanks to word Parker for sponsoring [TS]

00:55:42   our show just today the Safari [TS]

00:55:44   technology preview was released and [TS]

00:55:46   we'll put the official blog post in the [TS]

00:55:49   show notes but basically the gist is [TS]

00:55:51   this is a separate app that you download [TS]

00:55:54   via the web and then is updated I guess [TS]

00:55:58   fortnightly via the mac app store and [TS]

00:56:01   it's sort of kind of a more stable [TS]

00:56:04   version of the Safari nightly if I [TS]

00:56:06   understand things right except that has [TS]

00:56:08   one important ability which I don't [TS]

00:56:11   believe that Safari nightlies have the [TS]

00:56:14   webcam nightlies have which is it can [TS]

00:56:16   talk to iCloud and so if you're like me [TS]

00:56:19   and rely on Safari and rely on bookmark [TS]

00:56:21   sync and things like that you can use [TS]

00:56:23   the Safari technology preview the reason [TS]

00:56:26   this is a segue from what we were just [TS]

00:56:27   talking about though is that I tried [TS]

00:56:29   this on my work computer i haven't put [TS]

00:56:30   it on my personal one yet and i [TS]

00:56:32   immediately went to install the [TS]

00:56:33   1password extension when I did so I [TS]

00:56:37   attempted to enter a password for [TS]

00:56:39   whatever was i was looking at the time [TS]

00:56:41   and the 1password extension said oh no [TS]

00:56:44   this isn't signed the way we expect thus [TS]

00:56:48   this is dangerous [TS]

00:56:49   thus we don't want you to do this and [TS]

00:56:51   that comes back to what you're saying a [TS]

00:56:52   minute ago John about cryptographically [TS]

00:56:53   signing things making sure that what [TS]

00:56:55   you're looking at is what you expect [TS]

00:56:57   exercise etc so I just let that was [TS]

00:57:00   interesting and good on one password for [TS]

00:57:02   telling me these things although I [TS]

00:57:04   couldn't figure out a way to override it [TS]

00:57:06   which is a little bit of a bummer but it [TS]

00:57:09   still worked really well the outside of [TS]

00:57:11   the 1password issue as the the [TS]

00:57:13   technology preview worked well [TS]

00:57:14   everything seemed fine to me [TS]

00:57:16   I haven't had the chance to kick the [TS]

00:57:17   tires too much yet but so far so good [TS]

00:57:20   i've really liked it have you guys [TS]

00:57:22   played with [TS]

00:57:22   small i only have one question did all [TS]

00:57:25   of your plug-in icons all kind of shift [TS]

00:57:29   over to the right side as you were using [TS]

00:57:31   it or did they stay where you put them [TS]

00:57:32   on the left side of the address bar all [TS]

00:57:34   that friggin address bar even in non [TS]

00:57:37   preview so far even just a regular [TS]

00:57:39   safari frequently the icons in the [TS]

00:57:42   toolbar safari decide they don't like [TS]

00:57:44   where they are and would like a new home [TS]

00:57:45   and then I think they'll just they end [TS]

00:57:48   up just all because i think what happens [TS]

00:57:50   is if they get updated i think they lose [TS]

00:57:53   their spot and they get and they always [TS]

00:57:55   get added on to the right side so I like [TS]

00:57:57   a balance bar so I i have four of these [TS]

00:58:00   buttons ago in the address bar from [TS]

00:58:01   extensions i like to put two and left [TS]

00:58:03   you on the right and it they always end [TS]

00:58:06   up just having all four on the right [TS]

00:58:07   after you know within a few weeks [TS]

00:58:09   yeah that's not good about remembering [TS]

00:58:10   where you put things in the grand [TS]

00:58:12   tradition of the modern Apple they will [TS]

00:58:14   let you arrange things sometimes but [TS]

00:58:15   they will not respect your rearrangement [TS]

00:58:17   of the only place i can say that isn't [TS]

00:58:19   true is to the credit of iOS springboard [TS]

00:58:22   is usually pretty good about not moving [TS]

00:58:24   your crap not a hundred percent is every [TS]

00:58:26   once in a while something will pump out [TS]

00:58:29   of place like you doing always update [TS]

00:58:31   adds an unmovable undeletable apple [TS]

00:58:32   apple bumper things but whatever but [TS]

00:58:34   it's pretty good but I safari toolbars [TS]

00:58:36   yes [TS]

00:58:37   yeah I have experienced that is that I [TS]

00:58:39   experienced that not in the beta naught [TS]

00:58:41   in the nightly but just in the regular [TS]

00:58:42   stable one not even during updates and i [TS]

00:58:44   usually blame like weird I cloud syncing [TS]

00:58:46   like it gets it loses track of things is [TS]

00:58:48   trying to notice that i added an icon [TS]

00:58:50   somewhere six years ago on a mac is no [TS]

00:58:52   longer in service with some state on [TS]

00:58:54   some server somewhere inside Apple that [TS]

00:58:56   wakes up once every three months and [TS]

00:58:58   spews a bunch of xml towards our [TS]

00:59:01   property lists towards my various [TS]

00:59:03   maximum perturb the icons but how am I [TS]

00:59:05   supposed to pin cute dogs to pinterest [TS]

00:59:06   if I can't find the Pinterest button in [TS]

00:59:08   safari a problem buying them to keep [TS]

00:59:12   shortcuts but the most important feature [TS]

00:59:14   of safari technology preview so [TS]

00:59:16   unmentioned what is the most important [TS]

00:59:18   feature [TS]

00:59:18   oh the copy the clipboard things so you [TS]

00:59:21   can get rid of flash know it's got a [TS]

00:59:23   purple icon come on [TS]

00:59:25   is the whole reason anyone whatever why [TS]

00:59:26   would I want to eat why would I want to [TS]

00:59:28   use this well its part ball [TS]

00:59:30   purple is better than blue and [TS]

00:59:33   definitely better than nightly [TS]

00:59:34   which is gray yeah no actually that's [TS]

00:59:37   the purple icon is actually you know I [TS]

00:59:40   do like it I do like it better it does [TS]

00:59:42   look neat and the reason i want to try [TS]

00:59:43   but it's it highlights the one [TS]

00:59:45   disappointing thing for me about it i [TS]

00:59:46   would have preferred the chrome system [TS]

00:59:49   where you can just sort of tell chrome [TS]

00:59:52   go on the beta channel or whatever you [TS]

00:59:54   only have one installation of chrome and [TS]

00:59:56   you say but chrome update yourself from [TS]

00:59:59   the beta channel instead of [TS]

00:59:59   the beta channel instead of [TS]

01:00:00   regular channel and the reason is far [TS]

01:00:02   you still my default browser and I [TS]

01:00:04   realized that i'm pretty much never [TS]

01:00:06   going to use the Safari technology [TS]

01:00:07   preview unless I sort of i disabled or [TS]

01:00:11   making dirt the standard one so the the [TS]

01:00:14   preview can sort of take over as my [TS]

01:00:16   default browser but i don't really want [TS]

01:00:18   to do that either like i would prefer to [TS]

01:00:20   just have one safari and switch it back [TS]

01:00:23   and forth from should be pulling updates [TS]

01:00:24   from the beta thing or not but this is [TS]

01:00:27   certainly better than it was before but [TS]

01:00:28   never really ran the nightlies for the [TS]

01:00:29   reasons the case cover that you know it [TS]

01:00:31   wasn't it wasn't signed by apple so you [TS]

01:00:32   couldn't have the the iCloud connection [TS]

01:00:34   and everything so this is a step up a [TS]

01:00:36   but i don't really want to run two [TS]

01:00:37   copies of safari and I don't want to [TS]

01:00:39   have to step up the old one and i'm not [TS]

01:00:41   entirely confident that even if I tell [TS]

01:00:43   the OSD my default browser is this one [TS]

01:00:46   that the other one isn't going to launch [TS]

01:00:47   on its own maybe actually give it a [TS]

01:00:48   chance maybe we should try using the [TS]

01:00:49   purple one for a while and see if the [TS]

01:00:51   blue one comes back to life zombie-like [TS]

01:00:53   unless like zip it [TS]

01:00:55   but anyway lots of good new tech in like [TS]

01:00:59   case you mentioned in the new one the [TS]

01:01:00   bunch of shadow Dom stop acting strips [TS]

01:01:03   xmas script six which is a slightly less [TS]

01:01:06   crappy version of java script so much [TS]

01:01:08   hate [TS]

01:01:09   yeah that the copy and paste not not [TS]

01:01:11   paste sorry I cut and copy command which [TS]

01:01:13   is great and i love that they highlight [TS]

01:01:15   you know this is the only reason anyone [TS]

01:01:16   still has legit reason to run flash [TS]

01:01:18   because the only way to get stuff onto [TS]

01:01:19   the clipboard [TS]

01:01:20   I don't we do it works sometimes you [TS]

01:01:22   just wanna have a link that you click [TS]

01:01:23   the copy something into the clipboard [TS]

01:01:24   and having to run flash that has always [TS]

01:01:27   felt gross so another browser supporting [TS]

01:01:29   natively is good anyway [TS]

01:01:32   purple icon thumbs up another [TS]

01:01:34   interesting thing here I want to read [TS]

01:01:36   you the entire cut and copy portion [TS]

01:01:38   becomes very short programmatic cut and [TS]

01:01:40   copy to the clipboard it's now possible [TS]

01:01:42   to programmatically copying cut taxes [TS]

01:01:43   and in response to a user gesture with [TS]

01:01:47   blah and blah code having this ability [TS]

01:01:49   may eliminate some websites last need [TS]

01:01:51   for the flash plugin so yes i love the [TS]

01:01:52   Dagon flash but oh when I tweeted about [TS]

01:01:55   this earlier handful people were like oh [TS]

01:01:57   god people just going to start pasting [TS]

01:01:59   things in on me or they're just going to [TS]

01:02:01   start copying what's in my clipboard [TS]

01:02:03   what is going to need for one password [TS]

01:02:04   in there everyone was a few people are [TS]

01:02:06   getting very upset and I think it's [TS]

01:02:09   important to note one that this is a [TS]

01:02:11   read-only excuse-excuse me right only [TS]

01:02:14   two hits in response to a user gesture [TS]

01:02:17   and 3 i'm very curious to hear what that [TS]

01:02:19   gesture is it is it that it can only be [TS]

01:02:21   on like a click handler or something [TS]

01:02:23   like that [TS]

01:02:23   is it something more explicit i'm not [TS]

01:02:25   sure but nevertheless I think this is a [TS]

01:02:28   really good thing and it's already [TS]

01:02:29   supported Cromartie supports like no [TS]

01:02:31   other modern browsers have have ways to [TS]

01:02:33   get things onto the clipboard without [TS]

01:02:35   flash right so it's not so far as not [TS]

01:02:37   the first one temple at this feature and [TS]

01:02:38   yeah the security it's useless for even [TS]

01:02:40   in response to a gesture I everything [TS]

01:02:42   can be used to exploit eventually you [TS]

01:02:44   know some kind of buffer overflow or [TS]

01:02:46   whatever but they can't pull the [TS]

01:02:48   websites can I get it what's in your [TS]

01:02:49   clipboard all they can do is take their [TS]

01:02:51   crap and put it there which could still [TS]

01:02:53   be annoying like those stupid things you [TS]

01:02:54   know when you try to copy and paste text [TS]

01:02:56   and they put a little attribution line [TS]

01:02:58   next to it like we've all seen that one [TS]

01:03:00   that it can still be annoying to put [TS]

01:03:02   stuff into your clipboard but annoying [TS]

01:03:04   websites are always going to be annoying [TS]

01:03:05   no matter what and so this website does [TS]

01:03:07   that you just won't go back to it or [TS]

01:03:08   we'll just deal with the annoyance but [TS]

01:03:09   they can't you know if you copy [TS]

01:03:11   sensitive information and go to website [TS]

01:03:13   this feature does not allow the website [TS]

01:03:15   to get that information anyway [TS]

01:03:17   yep this is the this is a good thing and [TS]

01:03:19   it's another example of a slightly more [TS]

01:03:25   transparent apple which I approve of [TS]

01:03:27   that I'm really I'm really pleased with [TS]

01:03:29   the way 2015 2016 have been with Apple [TS]

01:03:33   being more transparent with Swift with [TS]

01:03:35   this this is all good stuff in and they [TS]

01:03:37   should be commended for it [TS]

01:03:38   remember we talked about safaris the new [TS]

01:03:41   IE kind of stuff like not this is a [TS]

01:03:43   director a reaction to that but this [TS]

01:03:44   specifically addresses a lot of the [TS]

01:03:47   actual issues raised in that like why [TS]

01:03:50   isn't Apple doing more on shadow Dom or [TS]

01:03:52   whatever like the idea that they just [TS]

01:03:55   had the nightlies and it was an opaque [TS]

01:03:57   development process and you had to wait [TS]

01:03:59   for the next version of us to come out [TS]

01:04:00   together thing now this is you know [TS]

01:04:02   incremental step towards even if you're [TS]

01:04:06   not a developer and just a regular user [TS]

01:04:07   and you want to get features earlier [TS]

01:04:09   here's a more convenient way to do it [TS]

01:04:11   even marketing into the nightlies that [TS]

01:04:13   we've been building for you for a year [TS]

01:04:14   and hears us talking about on our blog [TS]

01:04:17   that business not the first blog post [TS]

01:04:18   safari the web blog has been updated [TS]

01:04:20   frequently to talk about the new [TS]

01:04:21   features are planning on adding and and [TS]

01:04:23   just been much more open about [TS]

01:04:25   stop the previously would have had to [TS]

01:04:27   wait for WotC just sort of read the tea [TS]

01:04:30   leaves of the WebKit work or you know is [TS]

01:04:32   you couldn't even see all the webcam [TS]

01:04:33   workers battle with do stuff internally [TS]

01:04:35   and they wouldn't commit to the public [TS]

01:04:36   repository until like they were ready to [TS]

01:04:38   release and they're just being much more [TS]

01:04:40   open about that process including [TS]

01:04:42   talking about future products and say [TS]

01:04:43   we're adding this that in that and [TS]

01:04:45   they're going to becoming a future [TS]

01:04:46   release with just you know like they've [TS]

01:04:47   been doing a swift is unheard-of from [TS]

01:04:49   the old Apple sort of talking about [TS]

01:04:51   future features for products granted [TS]

01:04:53   obscure techie nerdy type products right [TS]

01:04:56   you know that only web developers or GUI [TS]

01:04:59   application developers really care about [TS]

01:05:01   but still it you know trusting the [TS]

01:05:04   people are going to understand all what [TS]

01:05:05   you promised this feature whenever like [TS]

01:05:06   you see the whole development process [TS]

01:05:08   going out in the open you'll understand [TS]

01:05:10   when things get booted out we know this [TS]

01:05:11   this didn't make it in time for swift [TS]

01:05:13   three like when inevitably some proposal [TS]

01:05:15   doesn't make it in time for three even [TS]

01:05:17   though they talked about wanting to put [TS]

01:05:18   in there no one will be mad because [TS]

01:05:20   anyone involved in the process would [TS]

01:05:22   have seen every step of the way why that [TS]

01:05:24   thing didn't make it into the process [TS]

01:05:25   what else were you doing during that [TS]

01:05:27   time was like when everyone can see the [TS]

01:05:29   process it's so much more understandable [TS]

01:05:31   as I go [TS]

01:05:31   well that didn't make it into three were [TS]

01:05:33   you know we're kicking it down the road [TS]

01:05:35   it doesn't seem like some sinister plan [TS]

01:05:37   to withhold technology goodies from you [TS]

01:05:39   just seems like the fallout of software [TS]

01:05:42   development which has also unexpected [TS]

01:05:45   things and when you've seen all those [TS]

01:05:46   things happen in front of you who can be [TS]

01:05:48   and I'm sure some will still find a way [TS]

01:05:49   we've met but very few same people we [TS]

01:05:52   met about it [TS]

01:05:52   our final sponsor this week is [TS]

01:05:54   audible.com was more than a hundred and [TS]

01:05:57   eighty thousand audiobooks and spoken [TS]

01:05:58   word audio products get a free 30-day [TS]

01:06:01   trial at audible.com / ATP if you want [TS]

01:06:04   to listen to it audible has it [TS]

01:06:06   listen to audiobooks from virtually [TS]

01:06:08   every genre anytime anywhere you can [TS]

01:06:10   play audible audiobooks on phones [TS]

01:06:12   tablets computers even ipods audio books [TS]

01:06:15   are great for flights long road trips or [TS]

01:06:17   even your daily commute now you may [TS]

01:06:18   think you have time to read books but [TS]

01:06:20   you'd be surprised how many audio books [TS]

01:06:22   you can hear each year you can only [TS]

01:06:23   listen to and from work every day [TS]

01:06:25   audiobooks bring books to life many of [TS]

01:06:27   them are read by the author's themselves [TS]

01:06:28   which adds an extra dimension to the [TS]

01:06:30   text and with audible.com you can take [TS]

01:06:33   risks and try new authors and drawn [TS]

01:06:34   without regret because they offer their [TS]

01:06:36   great listen guarantee you started [TS]

01:06:38   already [TS]

01:06:38   look and don't like it you can exchange [TS]

01:06:40   it for another one for free so see and [TS]

01:06:42   listen for yourself when you begin your [TS]

01:06:45   free 30-day trial you get your first [TS]

01:06:47   audio book for free and there's no [TS]

01:06:49   stress or obligation you can cancel your [TS]

01:06:50   membership at anytime now with more than [TS]

01:06:53   a hundred and eighty thousand audiobooks [TS]

01:06:55   and spoken word audio products you will [TS]

01:06:57   find what you're looking for [TS]

01:06:58   get a free 30-day trial today by signing [TS]

01:07:01   up at audible.com / ATP that's [TS]

01:07:04   audible.com / ATP thanks to audible for [TS]

01:07:07   sponsoring our show so intel has ended [TS]

01:07:10   tik-tok and I don't really know what to [TS]

01:07:15   say about this other than I think it's [TS]

01:07:17   pretty expected so John what are your [TS]

01:07:19   thoughts [TS]

01:07:20   I'm just kind of said that I finally [TS]

01:07:22   nailed down which one was it taken which [TS]

01:07:25   one to talk and they can't change the [TS]

01:07:26   process all the all the hard-working [TS]

01:07:28   button studied and studied so which one [TS]

01:07:30   is to take in which one is the talk [TS]

01:07:32   drink is the tick okay but it's not that [TS]

01:07:35   it matters anymore [TS]

01:07:36   now they have much more sensible the [TS]

01:07:38   name so they had to come up with another [TS]

01:07:39   another you know I don't know [TS]

01:07:41   catchphrase or whatever to marketing [TS]

01:07:43   term for their new strategy funk and [TS]

01:07:46   yeah so instead of tick-tock tick-tock [TS]

01:07:48   think they came up with is not great [TS]

01:07:50   tick-tock was much better so that team [TS]

01:07:53   did a better job in this team and come [TS]

01:07:54   up with acronym but this was PA oh and [TS]

01:07:57   that stands for process architecture and [TS]

01:07:59   optimization and so which one is the [TS]

01:08:02   shrink the one that's called process [TS]

01:08:04   like it's much easier now they made that [TS]

01:08:05   part of it easier but PA oh does not [TS]

01:08:07   roll off the tongue like tik tok does so [TS]

01:08:10   it's basically you know processes the [TS]

01:08:13   tick architecture is the talk that's [TS]

01:08:15   when they pick pretty new [TS]

01:08:16   microarchitecture a new chip that as a [TS]

01:08:18   you know a different number of execution [TS]

01:08:20   units in different branch prediction and [TS]

01:08:22   different cache lines and you know like [TS]

01:08:23   it's a new architecture and then they're [TS]

01:08:25   adding a new third phase called [TS]

01:08:27   optimization which as far as I'm aware [TS]

01:08:28   i'm looking at older arkiro link in the [TS]

01:08:30   show notes from antec as far as I'm [TS]

01:08:33   aware they haven't really nailed down [TS]

01:08:35   what's going to happen in the [TS]

01:08:36   optimization phase beyond saying well [TS]

01:08:38   it's not going to be a shrink and it's [TS]

01:08:40   not going to be a new architecture it's [TS]

01:08:41   going to be this third time when we do [TS]

01:08:43   other things what can they do an [TS]

01:08:46   optimization they can make the [TS]

01:08:48   integrated GPU better they could you [TS]

01:08:50   know [TS]

01:08:51   maybe make it uses less power through [TS]

01:08:53   more clever you know power management or [TS]

01:08:56   throttling or thermals or you know I [TS]

01:08:59   don't know what they're going to do the [TS]

01:09:00   optimization phase will find out but [TS]

01:09:01   it's going to be a formal formal part of [TS]

01:09:04   the process and as many people to chat [TS]

01:09:06   room more starkly trying to imply like [TS]

01:09:08   tick-tock may have been the strategy and [TS]

01:09:11   named for the past year or two but that [TS]

01:09:14   sort of the length of the tick and the [TS]

01:09:16   length of the talks have been stretching [TS]

01:09:18   out in weird ways and really this [TS]

01:09:20   three-phase architecture is just more of [TS]

01:09:22   an acknowledgement of what was sort of [TS]

01:09:24   happening already the time scales are [TS]

01:09:26   stretched out more and that Intel wants [TS]

01:09:29   to recognize that and set expectations [TS]

01:09:30   to say we are going to do new process [TS]

01:09:33   and then we're going to do in [TS]

01:09:34   architecture and then we're going to [TS]

01:09:35   sort of work on the two of them together [TS]

01:09:37   for a little while longer to give the [TS]

01:09:39   next process a longer time to hopefully [TS]

01:09:42   arrive on our new three-phase schedule [TS]

01:09:46   so we're all started still staring at [TS]

01:09:50   sort of the oncoming train of the the [TS]

01:09:53   end of Moore's law the real end is very [TS]

01:09:57   far out in the distance [TS]

01:09:58   theoretically speaking but practically [TS]

01:10:00   speaking there need to be it's getting [TS]

01:10:01   harder and harder to make things smaller [TS]

01:10:03   and smaller with lithography techniques [TS]

01:10:06   and the research and the money required [TS]

01:10:08   to go down to the next smaller sizes [TS]

01:10:10   like what you know that the real next [TS]

01:10:12   breakthrough has to be like can't do we [TS]

01:10:13   have to continue to use lithography you [TS]

01:10:15   know sort of shining not so much lighter [TS]

01:10:18   you know [TS]

01:10:19   straining forms of electromagnetic [TS]

01:10:20   radiation onto a thing to cause the [TS]

01:10:24   areas exposed to react differently than [TS]

01:10:27   on exposed areas that's what we've been [TS]

01:10:29   doing for our entire lives to make the [TS]

01:10:32   integrated circuits [TS]

01:10:34   I don't know what's next assembling [TS]

01:10:35   transistors out of individual atoms or [TS]

01:10:37   weird technologies that you know and in [TS]

01:10:40   the you know sort of the RND realm you [TS]

01:10:42   can definitely make things smaller that [TS]

01:10:44   way but you can make them at scale and [TS]

01:10:46   so there's this sort of general research [TS]

01:10:47   gap but anyway [TS]

01:10:49   intel plows Bradley forward and let the [TS]

01:10:52   last we talked a lot about Intel missing [TS]

01:10:53   their dates and holding up apples things [TS]

01:10:55   or whatever the bottom line is they're [TS]

01:10:56   still ahead of all their competition in [TS]

01:10:58   terms of their process how far along [TS]

01:11:00   they are a different process sizes and [TS]

01:11:03   continues to be in [TS]

01:11:04   advantage for them and maybe they'll be [TS]

01:11:07   the ones to make the next step before [TS]

01:11:09   everybody else because they're putting [TS]

01:11:11   in the time and energy and they're [TS]

01:11:12   already ahead of everybody else so it [TS]

01:11:15   can't really be picking on a little too [TS]

01:11:16   much because they are sort of at the [TS]

01:11:17   bleeding edge of this but if there is a [TS]

01:11:20   wall out in the future [TS]

01:11:22   intel may just get to it first and then [TS]

01:11:23   everyone catches up with them and then [TS]

01:11:25   tells the advantages is gone so stay [TS]

01:11:28   tuned for the ATP episode in 15 years [TS]

01:11:30   and we were visit that topic goodness i [TS]

01:11:36   can only hope [TS]

01:11:37   alright so speaking of Intel kind of [TS]

01:11:40   falling on its face and speaking of [TS]

01:11:42   really crummy and loose segways the [TS]

01:11:44   oculus founders said that the oculus [TS]

01:11:47   rift which was shipped in the last day [TS]

01:11:51   or two right uh anyway the the rift will [TS]

01:11:53   come to the mac only if Apple Apple [TS]

01:11:55   quote ever releases a good computer [TS]

01:11:58   quote maybe that's all Intel's fault [TS]

01:12:01   so what's going on here why is what what [TS]

01:12:04   in what by what metric is Apple not [TS]

01:12:06   releasing a good computer [TS]

01:12:08   I mean I hit a little bit last week i [TS]

01:12:10   mean the the main thing is that the [TS]

01:12:14   oculus requires a pretty intense [TS]

01:12:16   graphics card and over time you know [TS]

01:12:18   more pedestrian ones will probably be [TS]

01:12:20   able to drive it just fine but right now [TS]

01:12:21   it's so cutting edge and it has such [TS]

01:12:23   high graphical needs that it requires [TS]

01:12:25   are really really high power graphics [TS]

01:12:27   card and there is only a handful in the [TS]

01:12:29   pc world that are good enough to do it [TS]

01:12:31   and apple ships none of those in any of [TS]

01:12:34   their computers the only computer that [TS]

01:12:36   could even come close [TS]

01:12:37   maybe the mac pro but the current mac [TS]

01:12:39   pro is two-and-a-half years old or so [TS]

01:12:42   and and has fairly outdated gpus as a [TS]

01:12:46   result of being sold with every covers a [TS]

01:12:48   little bit last week so I don't want to [TS]

01:12:49   go too far into it now but i think the [TS]

01:12:51   short version is that there's a few [TS]

01:12:53   problems here most of which apple [TS]

01:12:55   doesn't appear to care about you know as [TS]

01:12:57   a major drama discussing the second [TS]

01:12:59   helping apple care that much about game [TS]

01:13:01   on the mac but you know Apple has so far [TS]

01:13:04   for a long time now tied their updates [TS]

01:13:07   to intel's updates and as we discussed [TS]

01:13:10   as Intel cycles i'm getting longer [TS]

01:13:12   between major place their cpus that is [TS]

01:13:14   also stretched out Mac update cycles [TS]

01:13:17   and apples habit as a last week of [TS]

01:13:20   skipping some processor generations [TS]

01:13:23   until gives them for their lower volume [TS]

01:13:26   products like the mac mini and the mac [TS]

01:13:27   pro and you know even some of the [TS]

01:13:29   laptop's these days first their strategy [TS]

01:13:32   Apple strategy for skipping some of the [TS]

01:13:33   things that they could use kinda like [TS]

01:13:35   holding off till better ones come later [TS]

01:13:38   that's also working against them because [TS]

01:13:40   again as the as the entire generations [TS]

01:13:42   have gotten longer we now have like a [TS]

01:13:45   situation that we've had that we have [TS]

01:13:46   today with most laptops where we're [TS]

01:13:48   sitting around waiting for the sky lake [TS]

01:13:50   revision from Intel come out in quantity [TS]

01:13:52   so that Apple can ship them the new [TS]

01:13:54   macbook pros and meanwhile the ones you [TS]

01:13:56   buy today have something like a [TS]

01:13:58   three-year-old cpu and them something [TS]

01:14:00   has to change you know either [TS]

01:14:01   well i hope i hope something has to [TS]

01:14:03   change we'll see if it actually does or [TS]

01:14:05   not based on Apple's actions but [TS]

01:14:07   obviously Intel can't deliver new [TS]

01:14:09   generations of chips any faster we're [TS]

01:14:12   seeing that you know we're seeing that [TS]

01:14:13   they are slowing down the rate of being [TS]

01:14:15   able to deliver these things because [TS]

01:14:16   just everything is getting harder so [TS]

01:14:18   Apple needs to either be okay not [TS]

01:14:21   getting these markets and bok selling [TS]

01:14:23   three-year-old hardware in max you know [TS]

01:14:27   brand-new today on a regular basis or [TS]

01:14:30   Apple has to stop skipping Intel [TS]

01:14:32   generations which would generally cut [TS]

01:14:34   their product cycle time in half because [TS]

01:14:36   they tend to skip every other generation [TS]

01:14:37   on some of these some of these products [TS]

01:14:39   at the mac pro or Apple can start [TS]

01:14:42   issuing updates to products even when [TS]

01:14:45   there is no new cpu to use from Intel [TS]

01:14:47   which they hit they have occasionally [TS]

01:14:50   done but it's not it's not a routine [TS]

01:14:51   thing for them any of those things could [TS]

01:14:54   could solve this problem also you know [TS]

01:14:56   then you have the issue of like even if [TS]

01:14:58   they kept their products more up-to-date [TS]

01:14:59   what products does Apple sell that could [TS]

01:15:03   accommodate the size and thermals of a [TS]

01:15:06   high-power GPU and it's basically like [TS]

01:15:09   one and a half it's like the mac pro for [TS]

01:15:11   sure and then maybe the big imac [TS]

01:15:13   depending on you know the cooling [TS]

01:15:15   requirements and everything and you know [TS]

01:15:16   you basically have two max that Apple [TS]

01:15:18   could plausibly put really high-power GP [TS]

01:15:20   using and both of those are probably [TS]

01:15:24   pretty low volume products for them [TS]

01:15:26   especially the mac pro so it just seems [TS]

01:15:29   like apple doesn't really [TS]

01:15:30   we care 22 to address this market which [TS]

01:15:33   i think is unfortunate because I wish [TS]

01:15:36   Apple had a little bit more hunger in [TS]

01:15:38   attracting people from PCs then they [TS]

01:15:41   seem to but with the exception of the [TS]

01:15:44   whole ipad stuff but that's that's a [TS]

01:15:45   whole different thing but I i do wish [TS]

01:15:47   they would solve this more often but i [TS]

01:15:48   think it would make max better also [TS]

01:15:50   and if Apple ever has vr ambitions this [TS]

01:15:53   will hurt them as well but for now this [TS]

01:15:56   is the situation we're in and we'll see [TS]

01:15:57   if any of those factors change [TS]

01:15:59   apples apples attitude towards things [TS]

01:16:01   has been frustrating like a couple years [TS]

01:16:04   ago I wrote something on my blog asking [TS]

01:16:06   for the cheese grater that hadn't been [TS]

01:16:08   updated in forever [TS]

01:16:09   back when the show started that was one [TS]

01:16:11   of the reasons are icons with was the [TS]

01:16:12   old cheese grater with the the sarcastic [TS]

01:16:14   new label on it because they introduced [TS]

01:16:16   a new mac brother was barely knew and [TS]

01:16:17   it's like you ever going to update this [TS]

01:16:19   what's the deal and I was asking for [TS]

01:16:21   them to you know there's anyone left [TS]

01:16:23   Apple who really cares about [TS]

01:16:24   high-performance computers no they're [TS]

01:16:26   not going to make a lot of money for you [TS]

01:16:27   know they're not going to be high volume [TS]

01:16:29   you know it doesn't matter in the grand [TS]

01:16:30   scheme of things but if you are computer [TS]

01:16:34   enthusiasts [TS]

01:16:35   isn't there someone there who are like [TS]

01:16:37   really likes fast great computers just [TS]

01:16:40   like the example user halo cars in the [TS]

01:16:42   car industry where lots of car companies [TS]

01:16:43   make a car is probably going to be a [TS]

01:16:45   money loser for them just because car [TS]

01:16:47   companies are filled with people who [TS]

01:16:48   love cars and people love cars tend to [TS]

01:16:50   love fast cars and beautiful cars and so [TS]

01:16:52   they make these cars that are just you [TS]

01:16:54   know you might look at them as a [TS]

01:16:55   boondoggle like you spend all this money [TS]

01:16:57   on R&D it's got all these custom parts [TS]

01:16:59   no one's even gonna use this thing and [TS]

01:17:01   it seems weird infinity or whatever but [TS]

01:17:03   you make it because you love cars right [TS]

01:17:04   and they did that the two mac pro I mean [TS]

01:17:07   you may not agree with their vision but [TS]

01:17:09   you can't say that they just kind of [TS]

01:17:10   punted it and just like oh here's [TS]

01:17:11   another tower computer they had the [TS]

01:17:13   vision of this crazy tube-shaped [TS]

01:17:15   computer like that this was the original [TS]

01:17:17   high-performance computing and it did [TS]

01:17:19   you know it had these at the time fairly [TS]

01:17:21   powerful video cards with 12 gigs of [TS]

01:17:23   vram which was unprecedented shipping [TS]

01:17:24   stock on a mac and it was you know like [TS]

01:17:27   it was it was interesting and innovative [TS]

01:17:29   on all fronts was it a good supercar was [TS]

01:17:31   it a good halocarbon maybe not or [TS]

01:17:33   whatever but then you can't go and then [TS]

01:17:36   just let that sit there like mad and [TS]

01:17:38   then you just lose interest right [TS]

01:17:40   because that's sort of like on-again [TS]

01:17:41   off-again thing where it's like we [TS]

01:17:44   of high-performance here's an amazingly [TS]

01:17:45   expandable max looks like a cheese [TS]

01:17:47   grater and it's easy to open up and you [TS]

01:17:49   could swap the ram and will update it [TS]

01:17:51   frequently and well you know you can put [TS]

01:17:53   in different video cards and has slots [TS]

01:17:55   and look how easy it is taken out the [TS]

01:17:56   drive and the first one can only do two [TS]

01:17:58   drives now this one can do for is even [TS]

01:17:59   easier to get the drives in and out and [TS]

01:18:01   you know they made a water-cooled one [TS]

01:18:03   like it seemed like they were on that [TS]

01:18:04   bandwagon for a pretty long time lost [TS]

01:18:06   interest and they came back and we're [TS]

01:18:07   interested in is that immediately lost [TS]

01:18:09   interest again and that's not a way to a [TS]

01:18:12   to attract people who have similar [TS]

01:18:14   sensibilities like hey are you one of [TS]

01:18:16   the people who is like you know a [TS]

01:18:17   gearhead who loves you know supercars [TS]

01:18:20   and high-performance cars do you like [TS]

01:18:21   big high-performance computers in some [TS]

01:18:23   respects as an end in and of themselves [TS]

01:18:25   like you don't even need this but you [TS]

01:18:27   just think its cool the same reason [TS]

01:18:28   people you by fast cars that they could [TS]

01:18:30   never drive at the full speed they're [TS]

01:18:32   gonna drop you know it's like if you're [TS]

01:18:34   the type produces apple care about the [TS]

01:18:35   customer sometimes they do something [TS]

01:18:37   because there are people inside Apple [TS]

01:18:38   who are like that but then all of a [TS]

01:18:40   sudden they don't again it becomes hard [TS]

01:18:41   trust the company so many people so many [TS]

01:18:43   things I've you know been reading lately [TS]

01:18:45   about the pros who you know maybe these [TS]

01:18:47   people who actually live with Jenny like [TS]

01:18:49   the professional graphics people are [TS]

01:18:50   professional 3d people professional [TS]

01:18:52   video people or whatever saying that [TS]

01:18:54   sometimes Apple it pays attention to [TS]

01:18:57   them then they don't they're kind of [TS]

01:18:58   tired of the the relate the rocky [TS]

01:19:01   relationship and they're going to [TS]

01:19:02   somewhere that has more consistently [TS]

01:19:04   supported them they're switching to pcs [TS]

01:19:06   or whatever gamers have long since made [TS]

01:19:08   that decision was the Apple has never [TS]

01:19:09   really cared about gamers and only [TS]

01:19:10   incidentally when they ship machines [TS]

01:19:12   where is easy to swap video cards would [TS]

01:19:14   you buy a pc video card flash it for [TS]

01:19:16   your mac shove it in there and then boom [TS]

01:19:18   you've got the mac that is actually [TS]

01:19:20   really good gaming pc as well that's [TS]

01:19:23   part of palmer luckey complain here the [TS]

01:19:25   quote i put in the notes about this you [TS]

01:19:27   can you can buy a six thousand dollar [TS]

01:19:29   mac pro with top-of-the-line AMD FirePro [TS]

01:19:31   d700 and it still doesn't match our [TS]

01:19:33   recommended specs like it doesn't even [TS]

01:19:34   meet like here's sort of like that [TS]

01:19:37   here's what we think you have for the [TS]

01:19:38   rift a six thousand dollar mac pro [TS]

01:19:40   doesn't mean shit meet it like maybe you [TS]

01:19:44   know when that 6,000 imacros introduced [TS]

01:19:46   it would have been a reasonable thing [TS]

01:19:47   like Paco's have come out then their [TS]

01:19:49   their minimum spec may have been lower [TS]

01:19:50   likely no but lower resolution or [TS]

01:19:52   whatever lower target frame or whatever [TS]

01:19:53   things are but nowadays it's the same [TS]

01:19:56   computer it's still success [TS]

01:19:57   dollars and it still got the d700 it and [TS]

01:20:00   the world's just moved on by leaps and [TS]

01:20:02   bounds even was introduced in this case [TS]

01:20:03   the d700 was not a gaming photos cards [TS]

01:20:05   or even was introduced their game cards [TS]

01:20:07   that were way faster right but now it's [TS]

01:20:09   just ridiculous but the price hasn't [TS]

01:20:10   gone down right the old apple thing of [TS]

01:20:12   like will continue to sell the same [TS]

01:20:13   computer for the same price for three [TS]

01:20:15   years while the rest of the world moves [TS]

01:20:18   on which you can get away with in some [TS]

01:20:19   markets but if you're going to do [TS]

01:20:21   anything and sort of the high-end pro [TS]

01:20:23   super-powerful whatever like I just wish [TS]

01:20:26   the mac pro whether it has pay attention [TS]

01:20:28   to gaming you know I just wish the mac [TS]

01:20:29   pro would be the best fastest computer [TS]

01:20:31   in the world at something pretty for any [TS]

01:20:33   sustained period of time because i feel [TS]

01:20:35   like that is entirely possible find make [TS]

01:20:36   the best computer running that weird you [TS]

01:20:38   know painting you know 12 megapixel [TS]

01:20:41   textures in real time on two models [TS]

01:20:43   things they demo to wcu Pixar and [TS]

01:20:45   everything make it the best computer in [TS]

01:20:47   the world for that for more than 15 [TS]

01:20:49   minutes like it doesn't even have to be [TS]

01:20:50   games but i think it should be something [TS]

01:20:52   and it just it said they'd been [TS]

01:20:54   neglected like that and said that in [TS]

01:20:56   this case apple is completely missing [TS]

01:20:59   out as far as we can see on the outside [TS]

01:21:01   on the entirety of VR which who knows I [TS]

01:21:04   really help Apple has also to be our [TS]

01:21:05   projects internally and they decided [TS]

01:21:07   it's not ready or not interesting or the [TS]

01:21:09   form it's taking on PCs and uninterested [TS]

01:21:11   or whatever but they're they're not [TS]

01:21:15   allowing people who buy their even their [TS]

01:21:17   highest and computers to participate in [TS]

01:21:19   it even speculatively so it's kind of [TS]

01:21:22   it's kind of depressing and the final [TS]

01:21:25   point is that the whole palmer luckey [TS]

01:21:26   slamming the max I think he's slamming [TS]

01:21:28   with reason but it doesn't mean that you [TS]

01:21:31   need an amazingly powerful graphics card [TS]

01:21:33   to do quote-unquote vr you need for the [TS]

01:21:36   oculus rift which is a particularly our [TS]

01:21:38   product but as we talked about earlier [TS]

01:21:39   if you have a playstation 4 u.can [TS]

01:21:41   playstation vr for a couple hundred [TS]

01:21:43   bucks extra [TS]

01:21:44   it's not going to be as good as the rift [TS]

01:21:45   it's not going to be as powerful but it [TS]

01:21:47   will run on your Playstation 4 which is [TS]

01:21:48   nowhere near as powerful as the [TS]

01:21:51   recommended system for the oculus rift [TS]

01:21:52   so VR does not equal oculus rift they're [TS]

01:21:55   two different things as a specific [TS]

01:21:57   product in VR is a concept how they have [TS]

01:21:58   one so you can use in your cell phone [TS]

01:22:00   now obviously the rift is probably going [TS]

01:22:01   to be the highest end one or whatever [TS]

01:22:03   but you don't have to entirely missed [TS]

01:22:06   out in VR because you don't have a fancy [TS]

01:22:08   high-end gaming pc you if you're [TS]

01:22:11   interested in it as as at least Marco [TS]

01:22:13   and I both are will try it out on a [TS]

01:22:15   couple hundred bucks thing we buy a [TS]

01:22:17   Playstation and i will probably be weird [TS]

01:22:19   and it's gonna it's the very first [TS]

01:22:21   consumer release of this technology so [TS]

01:22:23   inevitably 10 years from now we'll look [TS]

01:22:25   back on this VR and think it's [TS]

01:22:27   ridiculous that we even consider vr to [TS]

01:22:28   be a thing or look back and ends and [TS]

01:22:30   look at how incredibly primitive it is [TS]

01:22:32   compared to what comes after it so i [TS]

01:22:34   will link to that love these in polygon [TS]

01:22:36   basically saying your mac is fine for VR [TS]

01:22:38   just not for the rift which again its [TS]

01:22:41   high-end vs capability like I i want [TS]

01:22:44   some mac somewhere to be the best [TS]

01:22:46   computer in the world for some hot [TS]

01:22:48   demanding computational function because [TS]

01:22:50   I'm in too fast computers that's why I [TS]

01:22:52   like I don't feel like any way to [TS]

01:22:53   justify like that and I wish there were [TS]

01:22:54   more people and apple they had the same [TS]

01:22:56   attitude [TS]

01:22:57   yeah and it isn't just about gaming or [TS]

01:22:59   VR you know like it is even even if they [TS]

01:23:02   are doesn't take off or even if even if [TS]

01:23:04   you can if you can disregard gamers as a [TS]

01:23:06   market Apple cares about lots of apple [TS]

01:23:09   software or software that Apple [TS]

01:23:11   customers would have run can make use of [TS]

01:23:13   the extra resources of a well-equipped [TS]

01:23:16   mac pro you know the mac pro is the only [TS]

01:23:18   computer in the mac lineup that can have [TS]

01:23:20   more than four cores and as discussed [TS]

01:23:23   previously much to John chagrin I run [TS]

01:23:26   utility in my menu bar called istat [TS]

01:23:28   menus me too but uses up all those [TS]

01:23:30   course it [TS]

01:23:32   aah shows me when my cores are in use [TS]

01:23:35   and by what and i've noticed you know [TS]

01:23:37   like over the last few years you know [TS]

01:23:40   even though making software [TS]

01:23:42   multi-threaded is difficult and not [TS]

01:23:44   everything can effectively take [TS]

01:23:46   advantage of multiple cores i have [TS]

01:23:48   noticed in recent years that a lot more [TS]

01:23:51   of the things that I do are taking [TS]

01:23:53   advantage of multiple cores and there's [TS]

01:23:56   lots of and even stuff that a lot of [TS]

01:23:58   people would use like apples Photos app [TS]

01:24:00   for instance or any kind of heavy photo [TS]

01:24:03   workflow lightroom Photos app aperture [TS]

01:24:06   you know if you do any kind of video [TS]

01:24:08   stuff of course that will use it to lots [TS]

01:24:11   of software that that a lot of people [TS]

01:24:13   use can take advantage of any amount of [TS]

01:24:17   course you give it you know within [TS]

01:24:18   within reason [TS]

01:24:19   so you know you can it right now right [TS]

01:24:21   you know [TS]

01:24:21   the the imax and the 15-inch MacBook [TS]

01:24:23   Pros have four cores i would love to [TS]

01:24:26   have an 8 or 12-core mac pro that would [TS]

01:24:28   be amazing but right now they're just [TS]

01:24:30   they're they're not that competitive [TS]

01:24:33   because there's no reason to buy one [TS]

01:24:35   right now it with the prices on the age [TS]

01:24:37   of them and everything but like there's [TS]

01:24:40   there's so much software now so many [TS]

01:24:43   common needs that lots of Apple [TS]

01:24:46   customers do have that could take [TS]

01:24:48   advantages you don't have to just be a [TS]

01:24:50   video editor or a high-end gamer to want [TS]

01:24:53   a mac pro you know and i can i can [TS]

01:24:55   complain at length about the the [TS]

01:24:58   trade-offs made by the new to mac pro [TS]

01:25:01   compared to the old cheese grater it is [TS]

01:25:02   overall a good product Italy if it was [TS]

01:25:04   updated on a regular basis but you know [TS]

01:25:06   the old cheese grater i think was was a [TS]

01:25:08   better modestly and in many ways but at [TS]

01:25:12   least want something some sign that [TS]

01:25:14   somebody at Apple both a cares about the [TS]

01:25:18   mac which is its i know i know a lot of [TS]

01:25:21   the executives do care about the mac but [TS]

01:25:24   sometimes it's hard to see the actions [TS]

01:25:25   of that on the outside and be that [TS]

01:25:29   somebody higher but Apple cares about [TS]

01:25:31   high-end pro use of the mac and that [TS]

01:25:34   that is the part that's been seemingly [TS]

01:25:36   fading in recent years and I worry about [TS]

01:25:39   that you know it's one thing to exit the [TS]

01:25:42   software game you know to discontinue [TS]

01:25:43   aperture final cut i think they're still [TS]

01:25:45   ok on I don't know much about the video [TS]

01:25:47   but i think they are maintaining that ok [TS]

01:25:49   logic or maintaining ok you know even if [TS]

01:25:52   Apple starts slacking off on on the [TS]

01:25:54   heart on the software side of addressing [TS]

01:25:57   the pro-market it worries me greatly [TS]

01:25:59   when they start ignoring the hardware [TS]

01:26:01   side because like the software side we [TS]

01:26:03   have good alternatives you know if if [TS]

01:26:05   aperture aperture went away we have [TS]

01:26:07   lightroom you know and we have that we [TS]

01:26:09   have the new Photos app if Final Cut [TS]

01:26:11   goes away there's like a bit and other [TS]

01:26:13   things people use you know if logic goes [TS]

01:26:15   away there's other audio editors but if [TS]

01:26:17   there's no more high-end Mac hardware [TS]

01:26:20   you have to abandon the entire Mac [TS]

01:26:23   platform to to have an alternative to [TS]

01:26:26   that which is a really high bar it's a [TS]

01:26:28   really big ask and a lot of people like [TS]

01:26:30   me don't want [TS]

01:26:31   do I don't want to be an act i don't [TS]

01:26:33   want to build a hackintosh or switch to [TS]

01:26:34   linux or windows [TS]

01:26:36   I want to keep using mac OS and mac OS [TS]

01:26:38   was designed incredibly well and [TS]

01:26:41   incredibly well architected to take [TS]

01:26:43   advantage of incredibly high-end [TS]

01:26:44   hardware that Apple just doesn't really [TS]

01:26:46   sell anymore and that's kind of sad [TS]

01:26:49   well they open the opengl stack is not [TS]

01:26:51   great but aside from that [TS]

01:26:53   yeah I think you make a decent point [TS]

01:26:56   Marco but i also don't think we should [TS]

01:26:57   be throwing in the towel quite yet i [TS]

01:26:59   mean.they i would agree that they don't [TS]

01:27:01   update things like the mac pro as [TS]

01:27:03   frequently as anyone in the world but me [TS]

01:27:05   would want on purpose I'm perfectly [TS]

01:27:07   happy with them not updating it but [TS]

01:27:08   every 10 years so i don't have to go [TS]

01:27:10   through another one of those months of [TS]

01:27:12   this show when that's all we talked [TS]

01:27:15   about that I'm good but you know in all [TS]

01:27:20   seriousness I don't think that that we [TS]

01:27:22   should be to disgruntled or sad that we [TS]

01:27:26   haven't seen one in admittedly a fair [TS]

01:27:28   bit of time because presumably this will [TS]

01:27:30   get fixed and it will get fixed soon and [TS]

01:27:32   often and I I don't blame you for being [TS]

01:27:34   grumbly about the pace with which they [TS]

01:27:37   fix their refreshing the mac pro but [TS]

01:27:39   it's got to be coming I mean it really [TS]

01:27:41   has to be and presumably soon i hope so [TS]

01:27:44   it sounds like exactly what we were [TS]

01:27:46   saying when the cheese grater was over [TS]

01:27:47   like well but they got updated [TS]

01:27:48   eventually and eventually we enter the [TS]

01:27:50   second phase which is like maybe they're [TS]

01:27:52   never gonna update again maybe they're [TS]

01:27:53   just going to stop selling mac pros like [TS]

01:27:55   that's was the headspace we're in [TS]

01:27:56   background about the time the tube [TS]

01:27:58   appear because we were seriously [TS]

01:28:00   considering well you know apples really [TS]

01:28:02   has a consumer focus lately and they're [TS]

01:28:04   all about the iPhone the iPad and you [TS]

01:28:07   know do they really need the mac pro in [TS]

01:28:09   their lineup not not really maybe they [TS]

01:28:11   can feel like they can get it like maybe [TS]

01:28:13   they just won't make any more mac [TS]

01:28:14   president came up with the tube and like [TS]

01:28:15   I guess that you can argue about whether [TS]

01:28:17   the tube is the correct division for [TS]

01:28:18   high-performance computer but you can't [TS]

01:28:20   say they skimped you can't say they just [TS]

01:28:21   gave you a watered-down imac in the tube [TS]

01:28:24   shaped like that thing was a macpro [TS]

01:28:26   through and through with their vision of [TS]

01:28:27   you know a whole bunch of ports on the [TS]

01:28:29   back of the thing and and circular and [TS]

01:28:31   two huge video got one huge GPU but to [TS]

01:28:34   you gpus in one of them you know and and [TS]

01:28:36   their technology using the four [TS]

01:28:37   computers also using to drive that the [TS]

01:28:39   graphics and the enclosure and like it's [TS]

01:28:42   not the same vision as the cheese grater [TS]

01:28:43   but it is [TS]

01:28:44   high-performance vision and it was [TS]

01:28:45   exciting to see that you know that was I [TS]

01:28:47   think that was actually the Schiller can [TS]

01:28:49   innovate my ass thing right like yep [TS]

01:28:52   can't innovate anymore my ass that was [TS]

01:28:57   legit you know you could be crowing [TS]

01:28:58   about that and again like it you can [TS]

01:29:00   just disagree about division of property [TS]

01:29:02   you can't say that they were skipping [TS]

01:29:04   and were afraid and we're just kind of [TS]

01:29:06   like dipping their toe into [TS]

01:29:08   high-performance computers they they [TS]

01:29:10   wanted to make the future of [TS]

01:29:12   high-performance computers but it's just [TS]

01:29:13   it was just been so painful to see that [TS]

01:29:16   thing land and then just nothing for so [TS]

01:29:19   long especially since the one that [TS]

01:29:20   landed you know as we discussed much on [TS]

01:29:23   the show what Marco and I wanted was [TS]

01:29:26   what was like calling back then the the [TS]

01:29:28   quad 27 inch display right we can we [TS]

01:29:31   knew this thing couldn't couldn't drive [TS]

01:29:32   it right and it was like well but this [TS]

01:29:34   is the first one you know it can't drive [TS]

01:29:36   it maybe you could drive it no can't [TS]

01:29:37   quite driving forever but you know it's [TS]

01:29:39   not the white the one we want but ok [TS]

01:29:41   maybe the text not ready for it but [TS]

01:29:43   surely the next we'll do we didn't think [TS]

01:29:44   the next one's gonna come three years [TS]

01:29:45   later you know where that yeah and in [TS]

01:29:47   the meantime we both got 5k i'm axel my [TS]

01:29:50   wife did anyway um so we've got our [TS]

01:29:52   display but it's not in the mac pro and [TS]

01:29:54   the current mac pro still can't drive it [TS]

01:29:56   and we assume the next one will be able [TS]

01:29:57   to drive it but we don't know when that [TS]

01:29:59   was coming and they even that's a ? [TS]

01:30:01   honestly like whether whether the next [TS]

01:30:03   Mac Pro will drive a 5k display is is [TS]

01:30:06   honestly still a question mark but to me [TS]

01:30:08   like I've completed the past about like [TS]

01:30:10   about the drive-by software updates that [TS]

01:30:12   like lower priority things seem to seem [TS]

01:30:14   to get these drive-by updates we're like [TS]

01:30:16   to get attention for like an hour [TS]

01:30:18   you have one engineer working on [TS]

01:30:19   something for like a week and then never [TS]

01:30:20   touch it again and that's what you get [TS]

01:30:22   something like the el capitan disk [TS]

01:30:23   utility it seems like the mac pro from [TS]

01:30:27   what we know so far and you know maybe [TS]

01:30:29   apples about to prove us all wrong in [TS]

01:30:30   this I hope they are but from what we [TS]

01:30:32   know so far it seems like the mac pro [TS]

01:30:33   update to the tube was a drive-by [TS]

01:30:36   hardware update where they were ignoring [TS]

01:30:39   it for seemingly for a long time and [TS]

01:30:41   then they had this great this great [TS]

01:30:43   update that you know again I don't I i [TS]

01:30:46   can complete a lot about what they did [TS]

01:30:47   to it because I i think they made I [TS]

01:30:50   think it made it a lot more narrow that [TS]

01:30:53   you know and and a lot more expensive [TS]

01:30:55   and [TS]

01:30:55   and then what it was before they really [TS]

01:30:58   narrow the appeal and they eliminated a [TS]

01:30:59   lot of a lot of total values cases but [TS]

01:31:01   they did innovate at you know as fillers [TS]

01:31:04   asked said they did innovate what if [TS]

01:31:08   like if the the innovative and then they [TS]

01:31:09   just kind of dropped the ball after that [TS]

01:31:12   like there are new cpus for that they [TS]

01:31:14   could have used in the meantime and they [TS]

01:31:16   skipped a generation could upgrade the [TS]

01:31:17   GPUs yeah they could upgrade just the [TS]

01:31:19   GPUs if they're if they're so focused on [TS]

01:31:22   this machine having these two [TS]

01:31:24   workstation gpus that somebody like me [TS]

01:31:27   who would want to buy the machine [TS]

01:31:28   doesn't need it all I would gladly buy [TS]

01:31:30   it with one consumer GPU and because i'm [TS]

01:31:34   buying it for the cpu power and like the [TS]

01:31:36   Rams healing and everything else and not [TS]

01:31:37   not the GPU reasons if they're going to [TS]

01:31:40   refocus the entire machine on this [TS]

01:31:43   high-end dual-gpu use then follow [TS]

01:31:46   through on that and they didn't follow [TS]

01:31:48   through the GPUs are sitting there stale [TS]

01:31:50   forever I've heard from people who try [TS]

01:31:52   to use opencl 44 things that it's really [TS]

01:31:55   kind of been head to head the ball drop [TS]

01:31:57   on it as well that it just seems like [TS]

01:31:59   they they came in and they did this huge [TS]

01:32:03   redesign refocus the product that we [TS]

01:32:04   weren't really asking for and then [TS]

01:32:06   didn't follow through even on that so [TS]

01:32:08   that's that's why I'm i'm so sad for [TS]

01:32:11   this product because i love the mac pro [TS]

01:32:13   i love especially what it used to be i [TS]

01:32:16   love having this extremely flexible [TS]

01:32:18   expandable tower that had to cpu sockets [TS]

01:32:21   tons of ram slots you put a whole bunch [TS]

01:32:23   of drives in it and granted you can [TS]

01:32:25   modernize it in other ways like you know [TS]

01:32:26   these days you don't need many drives [TS]

01:32:29   anymore because now we're in the area of [TS]

01:32:30   SSDs and and the drivers have gotten so [TS]

01:32:32   big you don't need as many more so like [TS]

01:32:34   you can you can see the removing some of [TS]

01:32:36   these things i do still greatly missed [TS]

01:32:40   the dual socket configurations and I i [TS]

01:32:43   do greatly misconfigurations that don't [TS]

01:32:45   have to graphics cards because I don't [TS]

01:32:46   need them but I i hope they write this [TS]

01:32:50   at some point soon i don't know if they [TS]

01:32:54   will or not but but i really hope they [TS]

01:32:56   do and I'm i'm still maintaining some [TS]

01:32:57   optimism because if they don't the imac [TS]

01:33:01   5k is a great product [TS]

01:33:02   you know i'm using mine i'm i'm almost [TS]

01:33:04   always very happy with it [TS]

01:33:06   I i would like a lot more cpu power so [TS]

01:33:08   if I you know if [TS]

01:33:09   they make a compelling mac pro that can [TS]

01:33:11   get Korres in reasonably I would love [TS]

01:33:14   that but if they if the mac pro withers [TS]

01:33:17   away an irrelevance the way it has been [TS]

01:33:19   over the last few years and if it's [TS]

01:33:22   never it's never good again i still have [TS]

01:33:25   the imac and that's fine but boy I wish [TS]

01:33:28   I got the mac pro back just because of [TS]

01:33:31   cpu speed mostly because of cpu speed [TS]

01:33:34   and fan quietness yeah yeah exactly [TS]

01:33:36   things like being totally silent at any [TS]

01:33:38   load level isn't is just kind of more [TS]

01:33:40   graceful and nice i'm having happened as [TS]

01:33:43   the xeon class components in the ECC ram [TS]

01:33:45   and everything make sure that I feel [TS]

01:33:46   like makes things slightly more reliable [TS]

01:33:48   having more internal port stuff like [TS]

01:33:50   that you know like you know like more [TS]

01:33:52   USB ports built in rather than having to [TS]

01:33:54   use wiki hubs stuff like that like I i [TS]

01:33:56   love all those things about the mac pro [TS]

01:33:58   in many ways i miss it [TS]

01:34:00   and again if we never get it back the [TS]

01:34:02   way me or drawn want it will deal will [TS]

01:34:05   be ok but it does seem like a waste that [TS]

01:34:08   would there's all these amazing cpus out [TS]

01:34:10   there at the high end world like in the [TS]

01:34:12   next generation of the broader Zeon's [TS]

01:34:14   there's a 5 gigahertz part with four [TS]

01:34:16   cores if you can have a dual stock [TS]

01:34:19   configuration have two of those eight [TS]

01:34:22   cores at five gigahertz that would be an [TS]

01:34:25   incredible that would be the best single [TS]

01:34:27   thread and multi-threaded mac and but [TS]

01:34:30   whether i can offer that because the [TS]

01:34:31   current micro design is only one socket [TS]

01:34:33   and the CPUs they use can do to can do [TS]

01:34:36   two things don't offer that machine and [TS]

01:34:38   it's just like there's so much more they [TS]

01:34:40   could offer there are so many great [TS]

01:34:42   processors in the z online they could [TS]

01:34:43   offer and there are so many use cases [TS]

01:34:46   the old Mac Pro solved that the new one [TS]

01:34:48   doesn't and all those things make me sad [TS]

01:34:50   but I'm still hoping for mac pro update [TS]

01:34:54   soon we'll see what happens i guess have [TS]

01:34:57   faith that will happen hope so [TS]

01:35:00   alright thanks for three sponsor this [TS]

01:35:02   week [TS]

01:35:03   Casper warby parker and audible com and [TS]

01:35:06   we will see you next week [TS]

01:35:09   now the show is over they didn't even [TS]

01:35:13   mean to begin as it was accidental death [TS]

01:35:17   was accidental johns [TS]

01:35:22   research Marco and Casey would let me [TS]

01:35:25   because it was accidental was accidental [TS]

01:35:30   and you can find the show know today p [TS]

01:35:34   dot and if twitter follow them [TS]

01:35:41   yes eyl ISS so that's Casey list and a [TS]

01:35:47   co-pay rm20 Marco Arment are bc AC [TS]

01:35:55   recuse it [TS]

01:36:03   what [TS]

01:36:07   so you had a family member I did yes it [TS]

01:36:14   has it has wheels though you subtracted [TS]

01:36:18   yes maybe m5 rest in peace [TS]

01:36:23   Oh miss that car you don't tell you what [TS]

01:36:25   when when I when I was prepared to drop [TS]

01:36:28   it off and when I did drop it off [TS]

01:36:30   I was almost in tears like I really this [TS]

01:36:35   is the only time that I've ever given up [TS]

01:36:37   a car that i owned where I was really [TS]

01:36:40   sad to see it go every other time I've i [TS]

01:36:43   have that I've either stop having a car [TS]

01:36:46   or upgraded to a different car every [TS]

01:36:49   other time I've been kind of ambivalent [TS]

01:36:52   toward my old one for some reason you [TS]

01:36:54   know either you know before I was [TS]

01:36:56   leasing either be like you because it [TS]

01:36:57   was costing a lot of money because it [TS]

01:36:58   was breaking down constantly and that's [TS]

01:37:00   why i was getting a different car or [TS]

01:37:02   like you know what with my previous [TS]

01:37:04   three series lease i knew i was [TS]

01:37:06   upgrading to the m5 so going from a [TS]

01:37:09   three series 75 a huge jump and I got [TS]

01:37:11   man so excited this 3-series a little be [TS]

01:37:14   fine i'm going down five that you know [TS]

01:37:15   forget it forget the 3-series this time [TS]

01:37:18   you know the the m5 it's so good and [TS]

01:37:22   it's so different from where I was going [TS]

01:37:25   that i was i was almost regretting it [TS]

01:37:26   was almost like I was almost [TS]

01:37:28   second-guessing my move like when I was [TS]

01:37:29   trying man I'm gonna really get this [TS]

01:37:32   like because you know where I'm going is [TS]

01:37:33   is different it's not all better it's [TS]

01:37:36   better in some ways worse than others [TS]

01:37:38   and at m5 just such a good car that i [TS]

01:37:43   was really very sad to leave it [TS]

01:37:46   yeah I'm said that you left behind me I [TS]

01:37:49   don't blame you it's not like you did [TS]

01:37:50   anything wrong but I'm sad about it [TS]

01:37:51   because you know I feel like I bonded [TS]

01:37:54   with that car I mean it's the only [TS]

01:37:56   people I've ever driven [TS]

01:37:57   it's the only have ever driven into [TS]

01:37:58   countries it's the only car that's ever [TS]

01:38:00   shuttle shuffled me around Germany it's [TS]

01:38:02   the only Carver benim in or driven the [TS]

01:38:05   Nurburgring on and whatever that we we [TS]

01:38:08   as a as a group of four spent a lot of [TS]

01:38:11   good times in that car and you guys as a [TS]

01:38:12   group of two and three spent a lot of [TS]

01:38:15   good times that cards [TS]

01:38:16   it's that but that's okay because you [TS]

01:38:19   bought yourself a Tesla so [TS]

01:38:21   lively sighs loose-leaf at least myself [TS]

01:38:23   a Tesla they still own it was the [TS]

01:38:25   problem at least the am the least the [TS]

01:38:26   m52 is never really yours [TS]

01:38:28   yeah exactly i know you felt like it was [TS]

01:38:30   yours buddy were just leasing it 0 is [TS]

01:38:31   you're never willing to commit to the m5 [TS]

01:38:34   you're always like 43 years i'll give [TS]

01:38:36   you a trial period m5 maybe I like you [TS]

01:38:38   maybe a walk but but you're probably [TS]

01:38:40   going back [TS]

01:38:41   believe me you don't want to own em car [TS]

01:38:44   older than three years but I mean it [TS]

01:38:47   depends it like that the thing I'll miss [TS]

01:38:48   most about the the incarcerated what we [TS]

01:38:51   just talked about about the mac pro like [TS]

01:38:53   I mean maybe it's partly where I live [TS]

01:38:54   but like testicles like the toyota camry [TS]

01:38:56   aware i live like they're all over the [TS]

01:38:57   place like but I rarely see and implying [TS]

01:39:00   things like two in the whole you know [TS]

01:39:02   extended neighborhood area but there's [TS]

01:39:04   like a Tesla on every other driveway so [TS]

01:39:06   Tesla just seems less special because it [TS]

01:39:09   less rare it's also less of a less of a [TS]

01:39:13   mac pro in terms of we we make lots of [TS]

01:39:15   good cars and they're plenty fast but [TS]

01:39:17   can we take one of our cars and make it [TS]

01:39:19   you know as good as fast as we possibly [TS]

01:39:22   can i don't even care what kind of car [TS]

01:39:24   does the universe big giant four-door [TS]

01:39:25   sedan we can make that go fast too [TS]

01:39:27   let's let's work our magic like it's the [TS]

01:39:29   you know it's the almost pointlessly [TS]

01:39:33   exotic high-end right and the Tesla [TS]

01:39:36   especially since you didn't get the [TS]

01:39:38   point with the exotic high-intensity [TS]

01:39:39   even if you had it still more it's got [TS]

01:39:42   other goals because it is a whole new [TS]

01:39:44   platform a whole new technology and it [TS]

01:39:46   is necessarily more prozac we're not at [TS]

01:39:49   the at the stage yet where there can [TS]

01:39:50   even be an electric car that is a [TS]

01:39:53   regular streetcar that is as focused on [TS]

01:39:56   ridiculously excessive performance [TS]

01:39:58   applied to another car as the most [TS]

01:40:01   ridiculous AMG Mercedes or the m5 zor [TS]

01:40:04   any sort of supercar don't think so [TS]

01:40:06   I feel like you are taking a step up and [TS]

01:40:10   practicality and a step down in [TS]

01:40:12   ridiculous [TS]

01:40:13   automotive access their first of all I [TS]

01:40:18   think I'd I think I disagree with two [TS]

01:40:19   big things that you just said number one [TS]

01:40:21   I would say the model s in its various [TS]

01:40:24   like supercar configuration but I didn't [TS]

01:40:26   get as you said like the the P [TS]

01:40:28   configuration and then the most [TS]

01:40:29   ludicrous mode i would say those maybe [TS]

01:40:32   are those kind of extreme configurations [TS]

01:40:34   and also [TS]

01:40:34   I have never seen as many other m5's in [TS]

01:40:38   one neighborhood as I have when I [TS]

01:40:40   visited your neighborhood bar there's a [TS]

01:40:43   lot of 5 and there are a couple of [TS]

01:40:45   m-files but the testicles are everywhere [TS]

01:40:47   they're just like seriously it is the [TS]

01:40:49   target a camera above my neighborhood [TS]

01:40:51   like when I commute all I just see is [TS]

01:40:52   tesla's been printed before the tesslies [TS]

01:40:55   i pointed out much to do [TS]

01:40:57   Casey's upsetedness but the Panamera was [TS]

01:41:00   the other thing that like Tesla came on [TS]

01:41:03   this thing on an America where [TS]

01:41:04   everywhere I was like who's buying these [TS]

01:41:05   cops they were everywhere [TS]

01:41:07   we're only talking about happy thoughts [TS]

01:41:08   this time job no panamera suggestion or [TS]

01:41:10   something but it's a saying it but it's [TS]

01:41:12   the same type of thing that the test on [TS]

01:41:14   the Panamera both like four door cars [TS]

01:41:17   but shaped trying to be shaped like [TS]

01:41:20   sporty cars like you know the test light [TS]

01:41:22   doesn't look like an m5 it is definitely [TS]

01:41:23   more kind of like I'm a sporty car but i [TS]

01:41:28   have four doors how can we sort of make [TS]

01:41:30   that look nice and Tesla has obviously [TS]

01:41:32   put a chopping the Panamera does of it [TS]

01:41:34   but they're both doing that type of [TS]

01:41:35   thing and it's and it's kind of I feel [TS]

01:41:38   like both of them are very similar to [TS]

01:41:39   market like midlife crisis cars are you [TS]

01:41:41   know that's why karmarkar's read write [TS]

01:41:42   another right where they don't want to [TS]

01:41:44   feel like they have to get a four-door [TS]

01:41:45   car but they do have to get a four-door [TS]

01:41:47   car so they go to the Porsche dealership [TS]

01:41:48   to get a four-door car and then modern [TS]

01:41:50   version of that is I have to get a [TS]

01:41:52   four-door car because they have a family [TS]

01:41:53   but can I get this super fast electric [TS]

01:41:55   one that I still feel and get it in red [TS]

01:41:57   and now I still feel like it you know [TS]

01:41:59   got a cool car a couple things real [TS]

01:42:01   quick number one the Tesla is lightyears [TS]

01:42:04   better looking than the Panamera the [TS]

01:42:06   Panamera is just hideously ugly number [TS]

01:42:09   two so I was grabbing the Panamera link [TS]

01:42:11   for the show notes as we're recording [TS]

01:42:12   and I landed on the Panamera part model [TS]

01:42:15   page which I'll put the chat room there [TS]

01:42:17   are 1 2 3 4 12 they're like what is this [TS]

01:42:20   14 different models apparent panamera [TS]

01:42:22   that run from 78,000 $100 to 260 3904 [TS]

01:42:28   the Panamera exact exclusive series [TS]

01:42:31   why would you want that with the name of [TS]

01:42:34   God will pay a quarter-of-a-million [TS]

01:42:36   dollars from a4a panamera you have the [TS]

01:42:39   oven shop for a Porsche recently portion [TS]

01:42:41   measures their option packages and units [TS]

01:42:43   of hondas toyotas the second [TS]

01:42:45   like the Porsche options have always [TS]

01:42:48   been assumed their prices are you know [TS]

01:42:49   they're expensive right but any portion [TS]

01:42:52   you take you like I bet I could add like [TS]

01:42:53   ten thousand dollars and options like no [TS]

01:42:55   one option is ten eleven twelve thousand [TS]

01:42:57   dollars if you can add all the options [TS]

01:42:59   your car something costs 263,000 dollars [TS]

01:43:02   and you're like what happened i thought [TS]

01:43:03   i was shopping for $80,000 four-door car [TS]

01:43:05   and home [TS]

01:43:06   yeah that Porsche Porsche options i mean [TS]

01:43:09   i'm just i'm assuming portion options [TS]

01:43:10   are actually rivaled by like bentleys [TS]

01:43:12   and rolls but no one ever talks about [TS]

01:43:13   how much was options cross because when [TS]

01:43:14   you're shopping for that people don't [TS]

01:43:16   talk about money anymore but every time [TS]

01:43:18   I for the past like decade-and-a-half [TS]

01:43:20   writer you're fortunate there like on [TS]

01:43:22   Porsches options i don't know what [TS]

01:43:24   they're thinking but like if you want [TS]

01:43:25   anything it's thousands thousands of [TS]

01:43:26   dollars doesn't make any sense [TS]

01:43:28   there are 24 is that right to know 20 to [TS]

01:43:32   nine Elevens 22 how how is that a thing [TS]

01:43:36   people like options i made it like if [TS]

01:43:38   you make sense a portrait like you you [TS]

01:43:40   do you want to pay i mean like it's fine [TS]

01:43:42   you're gonna pay fifteen thousand [TS]

01:43:43   dollars for the carbon ceramic brakes [TS]

01:43:44   the do you feel like paying seven [TS]

01:43:46   thousand dollars for a different [TS]

01:43:48   headliner in the interior [TS]

01:43:49   alright will charge you that what [TS]

01:43:51   whatever dude like how do you feel about [TS]

01:43:53   special headlights for three thousand [TS]

01:43:55   dollars yes [TS]

01:43:56   ok check that box hold it just it adds [TS]

01:43:59   up really fast right I apologize i [TS]

01:44:01   derail decided like I'd never looked at [TS]

01:44:03   buying a portion of that i'm really [TS]

01:44:05   looking at it now and I'm just flummoxed [TS]

01:44:07   by how many options you have [TS]

01:44:09   if you can't buy that dude freakin tuba [TS]

01:44:11   toothpaste you'll never be able to buy a [TS]

01:44:13   Porsche let me teach you a valuable [TS]

01:44:15   lesson about this podcast [TS]

01:44:16   mmm never apologize for derailing the [TS]

01:44:19   show haha well i can't i can't trust [TS]

01:44:23   your judgment on this issue but he [TS]

01:44:24   listened to top for its it's a total [TS]

01:44:26   train wreck at the light full train [TS]

01:44:28   wreck but rain which by the way [TS]

01:44:31   listening to John try to keep you within [TS]

01:44:33   the guardrails on that episode was just [TS]

01:44:35   wonderful it was hysterical [TS]

01:44:37   I felt I felt like I kept I kept things [TS]

01:44:39   contained better-than-average it's [TS]

01:44:41   better than the average show still not [TS]

01:44:43   well alright so arrives we have totally [TS]

01:44:45   derailed so tell us about the test i was [TS]

01:44:47   the pickup experience but what you've [TS]

01:44:49   only had it for like two days so far [TS]

01:44:51   yeah well how is it so the pic of [TS]

01:44:54   experience or any I should just say I [TS]

01:44:57   mean you know we've talked in the past [TS]

01:44:58   in [TS]

01:44:58   neutral and then in the after shows hear [TS]

01:45:00   about like different different car [TS]

01:45:02   companies having different dealer [TS]

01:45:03   experiences and a lot of it just depends [TS]

01:45:06   on your local dealers but sometimes it [TS]

01:45:07   does seem like the way the company is [TS]

01:45:09   set up certain companies have liked [TS]

01:45:11   better or worse dealers and other [TS]

01:45:13   attitudes and others but Tesla invented [TS]

01:45:16   different to different Tesla dealers and [TS]

01:45:18   talk to a few other two other people on [TS]

01:45:19   the phone here and there and they've all [TS]

01:45:22   been awesome like super low pressure i [TS]

01:45:25   think the salespeople are not [TS]

01:45:27   commissioned and so I think that [TS]

01:45:29   contributes a lot to that the easier [TS]

01:45:31   going nature of of talking to them but [TS]

01:45:34   overall just really positive experiences [TS]

01:45:38   dealing with Tesla so far [TS]

01:45:39   granted i haven't had to like you know [TS]

01:45:41   get tricky service or anything yet but I [TS]

01:45:44   know some people who have had Tesla's [TS]

01:45:45   for for a while and they have all [TS]

01:45:47   reported very positive things about even [TS]

01:45:49   the service and stuff like that so so [TS]

01:45:52   far incredibly positive experiences [TS]

01:45:54   dealing with them as a company there's [TS]

01:45:57   no negotiation on the prices which also [TS]

01:45:59   makes things a little bit nicer and [TS]

01:46:01   simpler like you literally order your [TS]

01:46:03   car online that you can call them and [TS]

01:46:05   you can't you can go into the showroom [TS]

01:46:06   and you can order it there if you want [TS]

01:46:08   to but ordering it there is just you [TS]

01:46:10   using a computer with their problem with [TS]

01:46:12   the public website on it and you just [TS]

01:46:13   place the order with them if you want [TS]

01:46:15   it's perfect it's its release it's [TS]

01:46:18   refreshingly simple and nice and [TS]

01:46:21   everybody who seen who works for Tesla [TS]

01:46:23   who have interacted with seems like they [TS]

01:46:25   were from California super like you know [TS]

01:46:27   laid-back pic nice you know trendy yeah [TS]

01:46:31   it super nice people so very very [TS]

01:46:33   positive experiences there the pickup [TS]

01:46:36   was just like any other car pick up [TS]

01:46:38   where you know you you pick it up he [TS]

01:46:40   signs papers you transfer the license [TS]

01:46:42   plate and registration also that did [TS]

01:46:44   work out [TS]

01:46:45   yes I got to keep keep my blue license [TS]

01:46:47   plate my blue white New York plates that [TS]

01:46:48   the ugly new yellow ones i've been [TS]

01:46:50   trying I've got this is now the third [TS]

01:46:52   car this plate will be on but because I [TS]

01:46:55   refused to trip to upgrade to the yellow [TS]

01:46:57   ones because they're hideous on every [TS]

01:46:59   color of car so it's just like any other [TS]

01:47:01   car pickup you just walk down the stairs [TS]

01:47:03   and your cars on a rotating platform [TS]

01:47:04   connected through the floor is just [TS]

01:47:07   really just like it and then you go [TS]

01:47:08   outside and you're in a different [TS]

01:47:09   country and you drive on [TS]

01:47:10   140 miles an hour so pretty much like [TS]

01:47:12   every other car pick up exactly like a [TS]

01:47:14   really carpet yeah but I really listen [TS]

01:47:17   to that partially because I think [TS]

01:47:19   underscored said he had just listened to [TS]

01:47:21   that that that episode of neutral and [TS]

01:47:23   man I felt so bad for John because you [TS]

01:47:26   really got kind of browbeat into being [TS]

01:47:28   on the head with us but got it was a fun [TS]

01:47:30   episode in a fun trip but anyway yeah [TS]

01:47:33   yeah so you know that they walked me [TS]

01:47:34   through like the features of the car and [TS]

01:47:36   everything which you promptly forgot I i [TS]

01:47:39   have actually read some of the manual I [TS]

01:47:42   i will have you no more than five pages [TS]

01:47:44   in a nose that open the trunk at least i [TS]

01:47:46   read i think more pages of manual [TS]

01:47:48   because a lot of the features of the car [TS]

01:47:50   are not intuitive like for instance like [TS]

01:47:52   the rules of like when and how it locks [TS]

01:47:55   and unlocks is actually not obvious [TS]

01:47:58   that's what I had to look up things like [TS]

01:48:01   so how do i turn it off if i'm sitting [TS]

01:48:04   in it like this it's like a lot of [TS]

01:48:07   things like that that are that are not [TS]

01:48:08   intuitive anyway and so I i actually [TS]

01:48:13   have referred the manual few times but [TS]

01:48:14   so you know going over the car taking it [TS]

01:48:17   out and everything [TS]

01:48:18   granted i'm only two days into owning as [TS]

01:48:20   you said so take all of this with a [TS]

01:48:22   grain of salt i might change your mind [TS]

01:48:24   later but at the moment I you know I [TS]

01:48:26   mentioned how sad I was to give up the [TS]

01:48:29   m5 but I'm not sad anymore like once i [TS]

01:48:33   got i was very sad for the two hours [TS]

01:48:36   between my night when i turn it in and [TS]

01:48:38   when I picked up with Tesla and I really [TS]

01:48:39   was worrying like I wonder if I made the [TS]

01:48:42   wrong decision here [TS]

01:48:43   really i really was yeah and until I [TS]

01:48:47   until I started on the Tesla and it [TS]

01:48:51   reminded me why I went to Tesla in the [TS]

01:48:54   first place why I decided to make this [TS]

01:48:56   move never drive a Tesla if you don't [TS]

01:48:58   intend to possibly buy Wow because it [TS]

01:49:02   when you drive it really i'm not going [TS]

01:49:05   to say it's disruptive because that's [TS]

01:49:06   evidence and abuse term and disruption [TS]

01:49:09   usually usually is involved with low-end [TS]

01:49:11   disruption this is definitely not low [TS]

01:49:13   and disruption at least not yet but it [TS]

01:49:16   is transformative in the sense that once [TS]

01:49:20   you drive an all-electric car especially [TS]

01:49:22   a good one [TS]

01:49:23   like [TS]

01:49:24   Tesla but you know even even the lower [TS]

01:49:26   end all electric cars like the chevy [TS]

01:49:28   volt and the nissan leaf and stuff like [TS]

01:49:29   that that are much more affordable even [TS]

01:49:31   those have this property where several [TS]

01:49:34   balls on electric sorry the bolton and [TS]

01:49:37   it doesn't matter the leaf is no anybody [TS]

01:49:38   buys right people hey so all-electric [TS]

01:49:42   cars have this property once you drive [TS]

01:49:44   it [TS]

01:49:45   it feels so different and in my opinion [TS]

01:49:48   so much better than driving a gas car [TS]

01:49:52   it makes gas cars seem like old clunkers [TS]

01:49:56   and it makes them seem irrelevant to the [TS]

01:49:58   point where now like now that i know i'm [TS]

01:50:00   i'm in the electric car mindset and I've [TS]

01:50:03   and I'm feeling how they feel and how [TS]

01:50:05   they drive and and you know seeing how [TS]

01:50:07   they work and the advantages they have [TS]

01:50:09   there is no gas car on the market that I [TS]

01:50:12   want you know if if BMW comes out with [TS]

01:50:15   you know then the next m5 which is [TS]

01:50:18   probably have all wheel drive and [TS]

01:50:20   probably coming on a couple years I [TS]

01:50:22   don't think i'm going to care because I [TS]

01:50:25   don't want a gas car like once once you [TS]

01:50:28   get used to the benefits of electric [TS]

01:50:30   there are still benefits to gas you know [TS]

01:50:32   along Highway ranges a big one that the [TS]

01:50:35   electric is just that is not only not [TS]

01:50:37   there yet but probably will never be [TS]

01:50:38   there for four maybe aren't maybe our [TS]

01:50:40   lifetimes or at least a big part of them [TS]

01:50:42   because of that the rate that better [TS]

01:50:44   technology improves but my god it is so [TS]

01:50:48   different it feels acceleration wise [TS]

01:50:51   like like I i got the 9th ed not the [TS]

01:50:55   fast crazy fast one that's the p versus [TS]

01:50:58   I didn't get those I feel like such a [TS]

01:51:00   douche we've been talking about this [TS]

01:51:01   kind of these are very expensive cars [TS]

01:51:03   i'm talking about but I don't know if [TS]

01:51:05   you if you think I'm actually probably [TS]

01:51:07   stop listening by now if you haven't [TS]

01:51:08   stopped now [TS]

01:51:09   sorry about that but anyway so it feels [TS]

01:51:13   first of all it feels like i'm driving a [TS]

01:51:16   train because trains are usually [TS]

01:51:18   electric and like like I spent a lot of [TS]

01:51:20   time on trains I can you know commuter [TS]

01:51:21   rails and subways and everything and the [TS]

01:51:25   way and you know trains are electric the [TS]

01:51:26   way they accelerate it it has a certain [TS]

01:51:28   feel to it [TS]

01:51:30   electric artillery like like electric [TS]

01:51:32   trains do like they just like that the [TS]

01:51:33   torque curve the way they feel off the [TS]

01:51:35   line with a sound even like [TS]

01:51:38   it feels like I'm I'm driving this [TS]

01:51:40   incredibly smooth futuristic awesomely [TS]

01:51:44   powerful thing in a way that gas cars [TS]

01:51:47   even very powerful gas cars just can't [TS]

01:51:50   feel like they they just can't do that [TS]

01:51:52   even now buying like the the like you [TS]

01:51:55   know middle-of-the-road configuration of [TS]

01:51:57   the Tesla it's so ridiculously good and [TS]

01:52:00   it's so ridiculously fast i'm so glad to [TS]

01:52:02   get the faster one because the faster [TS]

01:52:04   one is a big price jump and a big hit to [TS]

01:52:06   arrange for a difference of speed that [TS]

01:52:09   not only do I not needed but that i [TS]

01:52:11   described what I will be left with us as [TS]

01:52:14   actually unpleasant to me like it was [TS]

01:52:16   actually too fast and kind of felt like [TS]

01:52:18   I was being punched in the face when I [TS]

01:52:19   want to test for that one [TS]

01:52:21   so this is a really good configuration [TS]

01:52:25   for me so far and you know I haven't [TS]

01:52:28   taken a big trip with it yet I haven't [TS]

01:52:29   put up to like a full supercharger and [TS]

01:52:32   had to wait 40 minutes to even start my [TS]

01:52:34   charge you like I'm sure I'm going to [TS]

01:52:35   have experiences with this car over the [TS]

01:52:37   next three years that I'm leasing it i'm [TS]

01:52:40   sure i'm going to have experiences that [TS]

01:52:42   aren't all roses but the everyday [TS]

01:52:45   driving around town which is what I do [TS]

01:52:47   the vast majority of the time is just [TS]

01:52:49   amazing in it so far it really is great [TS]

01:52:52   i'm even sold on the touchscreen I don't [TS]

01:52:56   know about that again [TS]

01:52:57   ask me again in a few months maybe you [TS]

01:52:58   know maybe that maybe this will change [TS]

01:53:00   but so many of so many things like just [TS]

01:53:03   the way it does things the advancements [TS]

01:53:05   it has are so nice and the interior [TS]

01:53:08   quality isn't as good at BWW the the [TS]

01:53:11   sheet metal isn't as good lucky like the [TS]

01:53:13   the most of the cars other aspects [TS]

01:53:16   besides the drivetrain are actually [TS]

01:53:19   stepped down from what BMW offers and [TS]

01:53:21   they're hiring configurations [TS]

01:53:23   I don't care like that's that's how good [TS]

01:53:25   the drivetrain is like I just don't care [TS]

01:53:28   about that stuff down and it's it that's [TS]

01:53:32   why I'm saying this is a truly [TS]

01:53:33   transformative / disruptive because it [TS]

01:53:35   makes you ignore the downsides and not [TS]

01:53:38   care about the deficiencies because the [TS]

01:53:40   core of it that the drivetrain the feel [TS]

01:53:43   the just the handling it just feels so [TS]

01:53:46   good it makes you forgive all the little [TS]

01:53:51   you know little nitpicks that you might [TS]

01:53:53   have so what's your favorite thing so [TS]

01:53:55   far just driving like it's I'm like a [TS]

01:53:59   Tom being stupid like you know finding [TS]

01:54:00   reasons to go run stupid local errands [TS]

01:54:02   like just to get me out of the house of [TS]

01:54:03   the car again like just it's just it [TS]

01:54:06   just feels so good it's it's so it's so [TS]

01:54:09   incredibly smooth and immediate and [TS]

01:54:11   direct feeling it's just it's just [TS]

01:54:15   ridiculously good [TS]

01:54:16   the more time I spend in it the more I [TS]

01:54:19   like it the more I appreciate it [TS]

01:54:21   underscore also has a 9 DD if i'm not [TS]

01:54:25   mistaken and he visited down here I [TS]

01:54:30   think it's right after Thanksgiving [TS]

01:54:31   around thanksgiving sometime around then [TS]

01:54:33   and i drove his car which i think we [TS]

01:54:36   briefly spoke about on the show actually [TS]

01:54:37   and it ruined my car immediately [TS]

01:54:41   Americans ideology there there are [TS]

01:54:44   things that I don't like about it but [TS]

01:54:46   I'm sure if i had 1i would suffer [TS]

01:54:48   through and learn to live with it [TS]

01:54:50   I didn't care for the touch screen [TS]

01:54:51   though it did make a lot more sense when [TS]

01:54:53   I was in the car in seeing all the [TS]

01:54:54   things i could tweak and configure did [TS]

01:54:56   make a lot more sense than i thought i [TS]

01:54:58   would have expected the progenitor the [TS]

01:55:01   regenerative braking is really peculiar [TS]

01:55:05   I didn't really like it but I wouldn't [TS]

01:55:08   say I disliked it either was just very [TS]

01:55:10   very different in weird [TS]

01:55:11   well that's also that's an option you [TS]

01:55:12   can turn down also yeah but i mean at [TS]

01:55:15   the cost of range of course I'm a little [TS]

01:55:17   bit but yeah well still the things that [TS]

01:55:22   that car can do though both performance [TS]

01:55:26   wise and technology wise are tremendous [TS]

01:55:29   like underscore was saying if i recall [TS]

01:55:32   correctly that he had set up his car [TS]

01:55:34   such that when he pulls up to his house [TS]

01:55:38   it opens the garage which is a totally [TS]

01:55:40   apple thing to do right like it has a [TS]

01:55:43   GPS on it it has a garage door opener on [TS]

01:55:45   it tell it this is my house this is [TS]

01:55:47   where I need to use the garage door so [TS]

01:55:49   just open the damn garage like it's it's [TS]

01:55:52   such an obvious thing to do that I never [TS]

01:55:55   thought of until he said oh yeah totally [TS]

01:55:57   does that for me and I think he said you [TS]

01:56:00   could even tell it to raise its raise [TS]

01:56:01   the suspension a little bit [TS]

01:56:03   when he when he's arriving at the house [TS]

01:56:06   to give them a little extra room to go [TS]

01:56:07   over like the curb bird or whatever it [TS]

01:56:09   is that the limb [TS]

01:56:10   yeah I'm stupid stuff like that but [TS]

01:56:13   really smart you know what I mean and [TS]

01:56:16   it's in stuff like that it was just so [TS]

01:56:18   impressive and in the fact that it had [TS]

01:56:20   an app that didn't suck like I haven't [TS]

01:56:22   been able to use them you can act [TS]

01:56:24   whatever-it-is app while you it was [TS]

01:56:27   comparatively less sucky than the BMW [TS]

01:56:28   app that I used two years ago [TS]

01:56:31   fortunately there are third-party apps [TS]

01:56:32   because the biggest reverse-engineer the [TS]

01:56:34   API that the official app is calling [TS]

01:56:36   that's totally safe yeah maybe I can't [TS]

01:56:39   do anything harmful it's like I can't [TS]

01:56:40   like stop the car or make it go it can [TS]

01:56:42   just like you know it can like open the [TS]

01:56:44   sunroof and turn the heat on stuff like [TS]

01:56:46   that it's like it's like that big of a [TS]

01:56:48   deal but wow it even like you know [TS]

01:56:52   simple things like educate the garage [TS]

01:56:54   door opening and it closes when you [TS]

01:56:56   leave to like if you when you pull out [TS]

01:56:57   of the driveway to leave they can close [TS]

01:56:59   the garage for you and you could when [TS]

01:57:00   you come back home and opens before they [TS]

01:57:02   get your right stuff like that it's just [TS]

01:57:04   really nice i mean and even having the [TS]

01:57:07   big touchscreen like one of the reasons [TS]

01:57:08   I'm kind of converting to the big [TS]

01:57:09   touchscreen now and appreciating it is [TS]

01:57:11   like it makes certain things possible or [TS]

01:57:13   better that you wouldn't necessarily [TS]

01:57:14   expect from a car for instance you know [TS]

01:57:17   it just shows the google maps view and [TS]

01:57:19   you can turn on satellite you can turn [TS]

01:57:20   on traffic overlays and everything [TS]

01:57:22   you're getting like really you know well [TS]

01:57:24   reported traffic overlay traffic data I [TS]

01:57:27   just leave the map on all the time now [TS]

01:57:29   even i'm doing local errands which is [TS]

01:57:31   most of my driving because i have [TS]

01:57:33   multiple routes i can use to get to [TS]

01:57:35   places on going and I can see the [TS]

01:57:37   traffic on this giant map screen of [TS]

01:57:40   where I'm going without having to [TS]

01:57:41   program a destination I have to make a [TS]

01:57:43   trip out of it like GPS wise i can just [TS]

01:57:46   like glance at the screen casually and I [TS]

01:57:48   can co that Avenue over there is all [TS]

01:57:50   full of red let me take it away just [TS]

01:57:52   little stuff like that like there's the [TS]

01:57:55   screen enables little stuff like that or [TS]

01:57:57   even just like because it's so tall it [TS]

01:57:59   has these different modes you can have [TS]

01:58:01   you can have one appt taking up the [TS]

01:58:03   whole screen or you can split it and you [TS]

01:58:05   can have a top and a bottom app and it's [TS]

01:58:07   such a large screen that you can have [TS]

01:58:10   like navigation as one of those things [TS]

01:58:13   and the other one could be at the media [TS]

01:58:14   player or something else like it [TS]

01:58:17   it's nice having all of that on one [TS]

01:58:19   screen whereas the other you know the [TS]

01:58:21   course i've used they've had these much [TS]

01:58:22   smaller system screens where you know [TS]

01:58:25   you kind of have to like switch modes [TS]

01:58:26   between different things and it's then [TS]

01:58:28   you gotta wait and yet it's kind of [TS]

01:58:29   laggy sometimes and and so I mean again [TS]

01:58:32   the test one is not perfect it isn't as [TS]

01:58:35   fast as I think it should be for a car [TS]

01:58:37   of this caliber i think i have to [TS]

01:58:40   double-check with this I think I hear a [TS]

01:58:42   hard drive in there are interesting as [TS]

01:58:44   opposed to an SSD I think I'm hearing [TS]

01:58:45   like if I'm doing stuff in the car it's [TS]

01:58:48   parked like I like setting up the music [TS]