The Accidental Tech Podcast

00:00:00 ◼   ► we're in for a long show tonight are we [TS]

00:00:01 ◼   ► not I don't honestly I don't know how [TS]

00:00:03 ◼   ► long it's gonna last help you put that [TS]

00:00:06 ◼   ► on the pre-show marcos classic honestly [TS]

00:00:09 ◼   ► I don't think there's much to say always [TS]

00:00:12 ◼   ► says that I never say it's gonna be a [TS]

00:00:14 ◼   ► short show that's always you provided [TS]

00:00:16 ◼   ► that you say it a different way that's [TS]

00:00:18 ◼   ► the ways and i can tell i have a cold [TS]

00:00:22 ◼   ► my-my streak is over i was gonna go to [TS]

00:00:24 ◼   ► whole winter without getting sick almost [TS]

00:00:26 ◼   ► made it out of this one so close [TS]

00:00:28 ◼   ► can we just drive you over a creek how's [TS]

00:00:29 ◼   ► your picture called I recognize that [TS]

00:00:33 ◼   ► wasn't the best use that metaphor but i [TS]

00:00:34 ◼   ► just cannot get tired of that metaphor [TS]

00:00:36 ◼   ► it's so good yeah it's kind of mean that [TS]

00:00:39 ◼   ► like is this gets back to what i was [TS]

00:00:40 ◼   ► saying on the pasture we're talking [TS]

00:00:42 ◼   ► about the new open a plan coming on [TS]

00:00:44 ◼   ► podcasts or whatever it's so easy to [TS]

00:00:47 ◼   ► make fun of that but that type of story [TS]

00:00:49 ◼   ► is an example of people opening up like [TS]

00:00:52 ◼   ► it's the type of thing that in a more [TS]

00:00:54 ◼   ► controlled PR environment would never [TS]

00:00:56 ◼   ► come out and it's slightly unfortunate [TS]

00:01:00 ◼   ► that the story that they put out there [TS]

00:01:03 ◼   ► because even on the merits it's kind of [TS]

00:01:06 ◼   ► like well you're trying to make an [TS]

00:01:08 ◼   ► emotional appeal but realistically [TS]

00:01:10 ◼   ► speaking that's not an effective way for [TS]

00:01:11 ◼   ► an organization to address problems to [TS]

00:01:14 ◼   ► have the head of the you know that the [TS]

00:01:15 ◼   ► head honchos of these huge swathes of [TS]

00:01:17 ◼   ► the biggest company in the world be [TS]

00:01:19 ◼   ► addressing problems on an individual [TS]

00:01:20 ◼   ► level with their own particular max like [TS]

00:01:22 ◼   ► that's not you need better tools to [TS]

00:01:24 ◼   ► manage this problem so it just seems [TS]

00:01:27 ◼   ► like you're trying to sway me [TS]

00:01:27 ◼   ► emotionally with anecdote but doesn't [TS]

00:01:29 ◼   ► make sense but that's the type of thing [TS]

00:01:32 ◼   ► that you do when you open up about [TS]

00:01:35 ◼   ► yourself in your personal life and i'm [TS]

00:01:36 ◼   ► sure it really is true and so I'm glad [TS]

00:01:38 ◼   ► we know that that's what's going on and [TS]

00:01:40 ◼   ► now we can I guess make our own [TS]

00:01:43 ◼   ► judgments about the effectiveness is the [TS]

00:01:45 ◼   ► strategy of driving things to create [TS]

00:01:48 ◼   ► victories and I don't know it is also [TS]

00:01:49 ◼   ► trying to say how passionate they are [TS]

00:01:50 ◼   ► that even these big important people are [TS]

00:01:52 ◼   ► are not above getting down to a problem [TS]

00:01:57 ◼   ► that they encounter that they're not [TS]

00:01:58 ◼   ► going to leave it to the lower people so [TS]

00:01:59 ◼   ► they'll take care of that they really [TS]

00:02:01 ◼   ► want to fix every little problem they [TS]

00:02:02 ◼   ► found so it's multifaceted it's [TS]

00:02:04 ◼   ► personal--it's human it's flawed [TS]

00:02:07 ◼   ► it's everything that the new open Apple [TS]

00:02:09 ◼   ► the new more open apple is about [TS]

00:02:11 ◼   ► so I only have a few questions about it [TS]

00:02:13 ◼   ► first of all in what part of a Ferrari [TS]

00:02:16 ◼   ► doesn't imac fit they have a lot of cars [TS]

00:02:18 ◼   ► you have is the rule of thumb if you [TS]

00:02:20 ◼   ► have a Ferrari it does not your only car [TS]

00:02:22 ◼   ► that's fair okay a second question can [TS]

00:02:25 ◼   ► you imagine being federighi and [TS]

00:02:27 ◼   ► basically being like the tech support [TS]

00:02:29 ◼   ► team for the entire company i wonder if [TS]

00:02:31 ◼   ► that's like a Power Move like the video [TS]

00:02:34 ◼   ► it's like that if you have something [TS]

00:02:35 ◼   ► wrong with Apple music do you like drive [TS]

00:02:37 ◼   ► your computer over to the anyhow that's [TS]

00:02:39 ◼   ► I feel like it's unfair because all of [TS]

00:02:41 ◼   ► any stuff is all cloud services like you [TS]

00:02:43 ◼   ► you can't really drive a broken itunes [TS]

00:02:46 ◼   ► store requests over to Eddie's house but [TS]

00:02:48 ◼   ► you just bring you just bring your [TS]

00:02:49 ◼   ► computer and say why is all my automated [TS]

00:02:52 ◼   ► message fix this and you and you come [TS]

00:02:54 ◼   ► back on monday is it done to fix my [TS]

00:02:56 ◼   ► album that data is even funnier to [TS]

00:02:58 ◼   ► imagine like you know your correctly [TS]

00:03:01 ◼   ► you're like sitting down to dinner with [TS]

00:03:02 ◼   ► your family and you know you hero here [TS]

00:03:05 ◼   ► this like laude Nov 12 pull up in the [TS]

00:03:07 ◼   ► driveway like oh god again didn't I said [TS]

00:03:11 ◼   ► you can hold on everyone does he have [TS]

00:03:13 ◼   ► the 599 I don't know I don't know I [TS]

00:03:15 ◼   ► don't know Ferraris want to even I was [TS]

00:03:17 ◼   ► just guessing there's probably a v12 one [TS]

00:03:19 ◼   ► there is only one uh was only one [TS]

00:03:22 ◼   ► well there's the eff is a p12 Casey [TS]

00:03:26 ◼   ► remember I thought so but I too am NOT [TS]

00:03:29 ◼   ► inside the idea for this this to [TS]

00:03:31 ◼   ► front-engine b12 sitting on one's really [TS]

00:03:34 ◼   ► ugly and four-wheel-drive that's the FF [TS]

00:03:36 ◼   ► yeah is that even Ferrari it really is [TS]

00:03:39 ◼   ► if it's ugly and four-wheel-drive it's [TS]

00:03:41 ◼   ► still is John would suffer through I [TS]

00:03:45 ◼   ► wouldn't have i got that i would sell a [TS]

00:03:46 ◼   ► million Byron a better [TS]

00:03:52 ◼   ► man anyway we should probably do some [TS]

00:03:54 ◼   ► follow-up shouldn't we tell me about [TS]

00:03:56 ◼   ► figma which I don't even remember [TS]

00:03:57 ◼   ► talking about it was that vector thing [TS]

00:03:59 ◼   ► remember that app that was gonna yes let [TS]

00:04:02 ◼   ► you draw vectors in a different way and [TS]

00:04:04 ◼   ► I said on the website that basically had [TS]

00:04:05 ◼   ► a big sign up button instead of a big [TS]

00:04:07 ◼   ► download buttons like I was nothing to [TS]

00:04:08 ◼   ► download it you know it like you can [TS]

00:04:10 ◼   ► sign up and i guess i'll tell you more [TS]

00:04:12 ◼   ► when it's ready like that as if nothing [TS]

00:04:13 ◼   ► wasn't out yet and David Klein treated [TS]

00:04:15 ◼   ► to say that he's a I believe figma is [TS]

00:04:17 ◼   ► one hundred percent in the browser [TS]

00:04:18 ◼   ► nothing to download so when it does [TS]

00:04:20 ◼   ► arrive apparently is going to be a web [TS]

00:04:21 ◼   ► app but i still think you can get drive [TS]

00:04:24 ◼   ► but anyway if i can try for free online [TS]

00:04:27 ◼   ► i definitely will because I'm interested [TS]

00:04:28 ◼   ► in how it's going to work [TS]

00:04:29 ◼   ► don't know that was quick and easy and [TS]

00:04:32 ◼   ► wanted to tell us about everyone's [TS]

00:04:33 ◼   ► favorite font comic sans yes it's friend [TS]

00:04:38 ◼   ► friend of the show and flop house [TS]

00:04:40 ◼   ► adjacent micro celebrity John McCoy and [TS]

00:04:44 ◼   ► a friend of mine pointed out that in all [TS]

00:04:46 ◼   ► our discussion of comic sans or our [TS]

00:04:48 ◼   ► Microsoft Bob rather we didn't mention [TS]

00:04:49 ◼   ► that comic sans the much-hated font was [TS]

00:04:52 ◼   ► created for but not shipped with [TS]

00:04:54 ◼   ► Microsoft Bob so you can read the [TS]

00:04:56 ◼   ► wikipedia entry on comics and you'll see [TS]

00:04:58 ◼   ► that it was created to try to fit in [TS]

00:05:00 ◼   ► with the Microsoft Bob world which [TS]

00:05:01 ◼   ► explains why it's so awful but it didn't [TS]

00:05:04 ◼   ► it didn't make it in time so they didn't [TS]

00:05:05 ◼   ► ship with it so i get another thing you [TS]

00:05:07 ◼   ► can blame on Microsoft Bob have you ever [TS]

00:05:10 ◼   ► used Microsoft Bob John i don't think so [TS]

00:05:12 ◼   ► i think only I've read about in [TS]

00:05:13 ◼   ► magazines when it came out but I don't I [TS]

00:05:16 ◼   ► don't I didn't have a pc obviously and [TS]

00:05:19 ◼   ► none of my friends who had a pc had it [TS]

00:05:20 ◼   ► all right John stop listening for a [TS]

00:05:22 ◼   ► second Casey we have 24 april fools day [TS]

00:05:24 ◼   ► somehow find a way to put Microsoft Bob [TS]

00:05:27 ◼   ► on a computer in john's office [TS]

00:05:30 ◼   ► I don't remember using it i bet you i [TS]

00:05:32 ◼   ► did at some point but i don't remember [TS]

00:05:34 ◼   ► having done so i installed windows a [TS]

00:05:36 ◼   ► Down of the am on my mac and I feel [TS]

00:05:38 ◼   ► really weird [TS]

00:05:39 ◼   ► well to be fair windows 8 felt really [TS]

00:05:41 ◼   ► weird to Windows users all signed up you [TS]

00:05:44 ◼   ► try like doing an edge swipe with the [TS]

00:05:46 ◼   ► mouse cursor on a windows vm it's really [TS]

00:05:48 ◼   ► hard [TS]

00:05:49 ◼   ► Wow again in all fairness doing [TS]

00:05:51 ◼   ► everything in Windows 8 is well just [TS]

00:05:54 ◼   ► remember that was my life boys until [TS]

00:05:55 ◼   ► just a couple weeks ago [TS]

00:05:56 ◼   ► congratulations again for getting out of [TS]

00:05:58 ◼   ► that thank you i'm so happy i really am [TS]

00:06:02 ◼   ► at anyway we are gonna follow up [TS]

00:06:05 ◼   ► we not thats it was it just too small [TS]

00:06:07 ◼   ► items wow look at this girl let's [TS]

00:06:10 ◼   ► celebrate by talking about something [TS]

00:06:11 ◼   ► awesome alright our first bunch of this [TS]

00:06:13 ◼   ► week is Squarespace start building your [TS]

00:06:16 ◼   ► website today at squarespace.com enter [TS]

00:06:18 ◼   ► offer code ATP and check out to get ten [TS]

00:06:21 ◼   ► percent off now look everybody I know [TS]

00:06:23 ◼   ► you know how to make websites and how to [TS]

00:06:25 ◼   ► make websites I don't make things about [TS]

00:06:27 ◼   ► using Squarespace but i usually don't [TS]

00:06:29 ◼   ► anymore because it's just not worth it [TS]

00:06:31 ◼   ► because square face gives you so much [TS]

00:06:33 ◼   ► functionality and great themes great [TS]

00:06:36 ◼   ► templates great support [TS]

00:06:38 ◼   ► there's so much they give you a square [TS]

00:06:39 ◼   ► space that is just simply isn't worth [TS]

00:06:41 ◼   ► making websites any other way [TS]

00:06:44 ◼   ► most of the time simple as that you know [TS]

00:06:46 ◼   ► I'm not gonna tell you there's never a [TS]

00:06:47 ◼   ► reason to not use Squarespace but i will [TS]

00:06:49 ◼   ► tell you that most of the time just use [TS]

00:06:51 ◼   ► a square face will save you a ton of [TS]

00:06:52 ◼   ► time and if you're making website for [TS]

00:06:54 ◼   ► other people it's even more compelling [TS]

00:06:55 ◼   ► because then other people can help [TS]

00:06:58 ◼   ► themselves with their website they don't [TS]

00:06:59 ◼   ► have to come to you ever want to change [TS]

00:07:01 ◼   ► you know whatever the sidebar whatever [TS]

00:07:02 ◼   ► they need tech support for the website [TS]

00:07:04 ◼   ► that you [TS]

00:07:04 ◼   ► ostensibly built for them they don't [TS]

00:07:06 ◼   ► have to ask you they can ask where space [TS]

00:07:08 ◼   ► so if you're making website for yourself [TS]

00:07:10 ◼   ► huge time savings if you're making up [TS]

00:07:11 ◼   ► for somebody else [TS]

00:07:13 ◼   ► you basically cut yourself out of the [TS]

00:07:14 ◼   ► picture immediately and then you can go [TS]

00:07:16 ◼   ► on with your life and not be involved [TS]

00:07:18 ◼   ► not be constantly on the hook for tech [TS]

00:07:20 ◼   ► support for other people it's amazing so [TS]

00:07:22 ◼   ► check out today there's tons of [TS]

00:07:23 ◼   ► functionality and Squarespace you can [TS]

00:07:25 ◼   ► build stores you can build your [TS]

00:07:27 ◼   ► portfolio's galleries even simple things [TS]

00:07:29 ◼   ► like blogs you can build podcast our [TS]

00:07:31 ◼   ► podcast host therefore the show I love [TS]

00:07:33 ◼   ► as well as many other podcast I know of [TS]

00:07:35 ◼   ► Squarespace is great for hosting so many [TS]

00:07:37 ◼   ► kinds of websites and it saves you so [TS]

00:07:40 ◼   ► much time and hassle from trying to do [TS]

00:07:41 ◼   ► things any other way before so check out [TS]

00:07:43 ◼   ► today it you can do a free trial with no [TS]

00:07:45 ◼   ► credit card required you can just really [TS]

00:07:48 ◼   ► do a free trial start making any website [TS]

00:07:50 ◼   ► you want today on Squarespace and see [TS]

00:07:51 ◼   ► how far you get in like an hour to I bet [TS]

00:07:54 ◼   ► you'll find that it is way easier and [TS]

00:07:57 ◼   ► way faster than any other solution [TS]

00:07:59 ◼   ► you've ever done before and then you're [TS]

00:08:00 ◼   ► just done then you can move on do [TS]

00:08:02 ◼   ► anything else with your time besides [TS]

00:08:03 ◼   ► making websites honestly I don't enjoy [TS]

00:08:05 ◼   ► making websites so Squarespace is great [TS]

00:08:08 ◼   ► because i don't want to spend a whole [TS]

00:08:09 ◼   ► bunch of time doing it [TS]

00:08:10 ◼   ► they take care of everything for me it's [TS]

00:08:11 ◼   ► so easy it's so great you can do so much [TS]

00:08:13 ◼   ► with so little effort [TS]

00:08:14 ◼   ► check it out today squarespace.com get [TS]

00:08:17 ◼   ► your free trial started right now [TS]

00:08:19 ◼   ► when you decide to sign up for [TS]

00:08:19 ◼   ► Squarespace make sure to use the offer [TS]

00:08:21 ◼   ► code ATP to get ten percent off your [TS]

00:08:23 ◼   ► first purchase thanks for the [TS]

00:08:25 ◼   ► squarespace for sponsoring our show so [TS]

00:08:27 ◼   ► there's been big breaking news that has [TS]

00:08:31 ◼   ► happened since we recorded last and I [TS]

00:08:34 ◼   ► think it's important we talk about it [TS]

00:08:36 ◼   ► microsoft has bought xamarin sorry I [TS]

00:08:40 ◼   ► just [TS]

00:08:41 ◼   ► yeah at that is fine i I really [TS]

00:08:44 ◼   ► appreciated your your your intro there [TS]

00:08:46 ◼   ► didn't think much about salmon but if [TS]

00:08:49 ◼   ► you had asked me hey I did some company [TS]

00:08:52 ◼   ► owns a marine now I would have maybe [TS]

00:08:53 ◼   ► guest microsoft I know like like netware [TS]

00:08:56 ◼   ► on them at some point something like [TS]

00:08:58 ◼   ► that yeah but I'd basically honest I'd [TS]

00:09:00 ◼   ► lost track of who own them and they've [TS]

00:09:02 ◼   ► been so closely associated with [TS]

00:09:03 ◼   ► Microsoft that if you had told me oh [TS]

00:09:05 ◼   ► yeah no microphone xamarin I was like oh [TS]

00:09:07 ◼   ► yeah that sounds right so the fact that [TS]

00:09:09 ◼   ► Michael bought them make sense to me [TS]

00:09:12 ◼   ► I think yes let me let me catch everyone [TS]

00:09:14 ◼   ► up so xamarin was originally called mono [TS]

00:09:19 ◼   ► and it was an open-source reinforcement [TS]

00:09:22 ◼   ► ation of dotnet that was designed to [TS]

00:09:24 ◼   ► bring dotnet other platforms and [TS]

00:09:26 ◼   ► initially this really meant linux but [TS]

00:09:28 ◼   ► over time it became more about allowing [TS]

00:09:31 ◼   ► you to write dotnet code usually c-sharp [TS]

00:09:34 ◼   ► code that ran on Android and iOS and I [TS]

00:09:38 ◼   ► looked at it way back when it was mano 1 [TS]

00:09:40 ◼   ► i'm sorry it was it was a long time ago [TS]

00:09:42 ◼   ► right when they first started supporting [TS]

00:09:43 ◼   ► the iphone forget what version that was [TS]

00:09:45 ◼   ► and as we talked about a handful of [TS]

00:09:48 ◼   ► times on the show [TS]

00:09:49 ◼   ► it felt like exactly how I would have [TS]

00:09:51 ◼   ► written a bridging platform to go [TS]

00:09:54 ◼   ► between the world of C sharp and and iOS [TS]

00:09:58 ◼   ► it that's a compliment it felt really [TS]

00:09:59 ◼   ► really good now it's still a total hack [TS]

00:10:01 ◼   ► but it it felt it felt like it was [TS]

00:10:05 ◼   ► really well-designed and really really [TS]

00:10:06 ◼   ► well done and so Microsoft has since [TS]

00:10:09 ◼   ► bought samer in which again used to be [TS]

00:10:11 ◼   ► called mono so now it's being folded [TS]

00:10:13 ◼   ► into microsoft and this is kind of an [TS]

00:10:14 ◼   ► extension of what they did a years so [TS]

00:10:17 ◼   ► maybe two years ago when they open [TS]

00:10:19 ◼   ► sourced a lot of the.net framework so in [TS]

00:10:21 ◼   ► some parts see that salmon and other [TS]

00:10:24 ◼   ► people like them could use Microsoft [TS]

00:10:26 ◼   ► code in order to get the bits of dotnet [TS]

00:10:29 ◼   ► they needed and then xamarin could go [TS]

00:10:31 ◼   ► back to doing the things they were [TS]

00:10:32 ◼   ► that which was just building that like [TS]

00:10:34 ◼   ► cross-platform layer so Microsoft is [TS]

00:10:36 ◼   ► buying xamarin we'll see what that means [TS]

00:10:38 ◼   ► I'm this reminds me of our conversations [TS]

00:10:40 ◼   ► in the past about project island would [TS]

00:10:42 ◼   ► which was / is I haven't really kept up [TS]

00:10:46 ◼   ► with it a cross-platform setup that [TS]

00:10:49 ◼   ► microsoft had to bring iOS apps onto [TS]

00:10:52 ◼   ► Windows 10 [TS]

00:10:54 ◼   ► I think that's mostly died is that true [TS]

00:10:56 ◼   ► was it ever alive I mean like I know [TS]

00:10:57 ◼   ► that they they have released that in [TS]

00:11:00 ◼   ► some form and I know people look at the [TS]

00:11:01 ◼   ► code and it was horrendous and full of [TS]

00:11:03 ◼   ► tons of like temporary hacks and like to [TS]

00:11:06 ◼   ► do implementations and everything and [TS]

00:11:08 ◼   ► because wasn't like a real [TS]

00:11:09 ◼   ► implementation of UI kit and on time was [TS]

00:11:11 ◼   ► the idea and remember Kate didn't come [TS]

00:11:13 ◼   ► out like right after Swift was announced [TS]

00:11:16 ◼   ► and there and is not compatible Swift at [TS]

00:11:18 ◼   ► all and so there was a tissue and then [TS]

00:11:20 ◼   ► the other issue is yeah like they [TS]

00:11:21 ◼   ► basically it tries to be a layer so that [TS]

00:11:23 ◼   ► you can write use it basically can port [TS]

00:11:26 ◼   ► your iOS app right over to windows phone [TS]

00:11:29 ◼   ► or windows in general I don't know which [TS]

00:11:31 ◼   ► version of windows but I right over to [TS]

00:11:33 ◼   ► windows something or other and it was [TS]

00:11:35 ◼   ► just really mentally all the all the [TS]

00:11:36 ◼   ► basic I was frameworks and I honestly [TS]

00:11:39 ◼   ► have not heard of anybody using it for [TS]

00:11:41 ◼   ► any reason I mean the reason why iOS [TS]

00:11:44 ◼   ► developers are not making their their [TS]

00:11:46 ◼   ► apps for Windows is not because we can't [TS]

00:11:49 ◼   ► cross compile them it's because we don't [TS]

00:11:51 ◼   ► care because I'm going to the market [TS]

00:11:53 ◼   ► literally I'm not trying to be mean it's [TS]

00:11:55 ◼   ► like if you're if we wanted to make apps [TS]

00:11:57 ◼   ► for those platforms we would just make [TS]

00:11:59 ◼   ► them correctly you know it using their [TS]

00:12:01 ◼   ► native tools in their native apps the [TS]

00:12:03 ◼   ► fact that there's this weird half [TS]

00:12:05 ◼   ► compatibility layer that is kind of [TS]

00:12:08 ◼   ► half-baked and kind of half works and is [TS]

00:12:11 ◼   ► probably only have supported by anybody [TS]

00:12:13 ◼   ► that's not really gonna change anyone's [TS]

00:12:15 ◼   ► mind meaningfully you know that that [TS]

00:12:16 ◼   ► might help out a couple of consultants [TS]

00:12:19 ◼   ► on really tight time constraints but [TS]

00:12:20 ◼   ► even then like our clients have been [TS]

00:12:22 ◼   ► asking for Windows apps like it isn't [TS]

00:12:25 ◼   ► that just seems like there is so little [TS]

00:12:27 ◼   ► demand and will for people to make [TS]

00:12:30 ◼   ► Windows apps [TS]

00:12:31 ◼   ► this is not going to meaningful change [TS]

00:12:33 ◼   ► that now this was the nineties the old [TS]

00:12:36 ◼   ► star was like don't bother trying to [TS]

00:12:39 ◼   ► make a linux compatible implementation [TS]

00:12:41 ◼   ► of [TS]

00:12:41 ◼   ► the the common language runtime or.net [TS]

00:12:43 ◼   ► because you're just playing at the [TS]

00:12:45 ◼   ► microsoft trap and even though microsoft [TS]

00:12:47 ◼   ► says all these things about oh you know [TS]

00:12:48 ◼   ► cross-platform runtime virtual machine [TS]

00:12:51 ◼   ► environment c-sharp blah blah [TS]

00:12:54 ◼   ► really what they're just trying to do is [TS]

00:12:55 ◼   ► trap you so that's why the linux [TS]

00:12:56 ◼   ► computer you're always kind of looked at [TS]

00:12:58 ◼   ► them you know with a little bit where [TS]

00:13:01 ◼   ► Lee saying i don't really want to make [TS]

00:13:04 ◼   ► any linux apps using the Microsoft no no [TS]

00:13:06 ◼   ► it's not a microsoft technologies [TS]

00:13:07 ◼   ► totally open it'll be just like I don't [TS]

00:13:09 ◼   ► know about that and if we were still in [TS]

00:13:11 ◼   ► the nineties and Microsoft was still [TS]

00:13:13 ◼   ► like company that everyone was scared of [TS]

00:13:14 ◼   ► and everyone suspected they were going [TS]

00:13:15 ◼   ► to you know embrace extend extinguish [TS]

00:13:17 ◼   ► all this other stuff whatever will be [TS]

00:13:19 ◼   ► saying was see we were really smart not [TS]

00:13:21 ◼   ► to try to build anything and linux based [TS]

00:13:23 ◼   ► on the the common language runtime [TS]

00:13:24 ◼   ► dotnet because if we did now Microsoft [TS]

00:13:26 ◼   ► bought them and guess what all that [TS]

00:13:27 ◼   ► cross-platform stuff that that they were [TS]

00:13:30 ◼   ► doing before well that's all over now [TS]

00:13:31 ◼   ► and everything that is examined is going [TS]

00:13:33 ◼   ► to become windows-only another gonna be [TS]

00:13:35 ◼   ► cross-platform anymore because you know [TS]

00:13:37 ◼   ► it was just like it was a trap basically [TS]

00:13:38 ◼   ► get people to distract Linux which is a [TS]

00:13:41 ◼   ► big threat to microsoft and their mind [TS]

00:13:43 ◼   ► back in the nineties and two to use [TS]

00:13:46 ◼   ► microsoft technologies and then take [TS]

00:13:47 ◼   ► those technologies away and make them [TS]

00:13:50 ◼   ► provider that point but of course the [TS]

00:13:53 ◼   ► modern microsoft by examine exactly the [TS]

00:13:55 ◼   ► opposite reasons because their company [TS]

00:13:57 ◼   ► that has shown that they're good at [TS]

00:13:58 ◼   ► doing things cross platform and the new [TS]

00:14:00 ◼   ► microsoft wants to sell whatever it is [TS]

00:14:03 ◼   ► they have to sell to as many people as [TS]

00:14:05 ◼   ► possible and then moving away from the [TS]

00:14:08 ◼   ► only way to get this is to get it on [TS]

00:14:10 ◼   ► windows you know as your web services [TS]

00:14:12 ◼   ► are an example according iOS developers [TS]

00:14:14 ◼   ► and stuff to you can use these web [TS]

00:14:16 ◼   ► services with your iOS app will they'll [TS]

00:14:19 ◼   ► they'll sell anything to anyone because [TS]

00:14:21 ◼   ► they think they have valuable things and [TS]

00:14:22 ◼   ► they're no longer in a position where [TS]

00:14:23 ◼   ► they could say we have valuable [TS]

00:14:26 ◼   ► technology and only way you can get it [TS]

00:14:28 ◼   ► is to be microsoft and windows and [TS]

00:14:29 ◼   ► proprietary top to bottom because nobody [TS]

00:14:31 ◼   ► does that anymore it's not it's not like [TS]

00:14:32 ◼   ► it's not even an option so I think this [TS]

00:14:35 ◼   ► purchase of samurai would have blown the [TS]

00:14:37 ◼   ► minds of like linux advocates in the [TS]

00:14:39 ◼   ► nineties idea that they're buying them [TS]

00:14:40 ◼   ► because they're so good across platform [TS]

00:14:42 ◼   ► stuff that surely what they're going to [TS]

00:14:44 ◼   ► do with those people and that technology [TS]

00:14:45 ◼   ► is more clock cross-platform things not [TS]

00:14:48 ◼   ► like oh now finally we can stop people [TS]

00:14:50 ◼   ► from using our technology to do anything [TS]

00:14:53 ◼   ► except for make apps for our platform [TS]

00:14:54 ◼   ► so here's a question I don't you know I [TS]

00:14:58 ◼   ► haven't looked too much into this so [TS]

00:15:00 ◼   ► forgive me but you know back in the in [TS]

00:15:02 ◼   ► the in the nineties when someone you [TS]

00:15:04 ◼   ► know sun microsystems made this really [TS]

00:15:06 ◼   ► really expensive custom proprietary [TS]

00:15:09 ◼   ► hardware and software to run the custom [TS]

00:15:11 ◼   ► son boxes and then son invented Java and [TS]

00:15:15 ◼   ► Java who is seen by many as kind of a [TS]

00:15:17 ◼   ► big strategic blunder by sun because the [TS]

00:15:20 ◼   ► whole point of Java is to make [TS]

00:15:22 ◼   ► proprietary platform and hardware [TS]

00:15:23 ◼   ► completely irrelevant marginalize them [TS]

00:15:25 ◼   ► and make the same software on everywhere [TS]

00:15:26 ◼   ► and so many people think that was son [TS]

00:15:29 ◼   ► kind of eroding their own companies [TS]

00:15:32 ◼   ► strong points and their own revenue [TS]

00:15:33 ◼   ► sources trying to apply that today I [TS]

00:15:36 ◼   ► mean do you like what is microsoft get [TS]

00:15:39 ◼   ► big picture wise long-term wise what did [TS]

00:15:41 ◼   ► they get out of making linux servers a a [TS]

00:15:46 ◼   ► first-class platform for.net development [TS]

00:15:49 ◼   ► because right now Microsoft makes a big [TS]

00:15:52 ◼   ► portion of the revenue with Windows [TS]

00:15:54 ◼   ► servers and windows server side [TS]

00:15:55 ◼   ► components and licensing from that and [TS]

00:15:58 ◼   ► you know how does that obviously like [TS]

00:16:01 ◼   ► with with with such a new Della's new [TS]

00:16:03 ◼   ► leadership focus more on services and [TS]

00:16:05 ◼   ► enterprise stuff it seems like this [TS]

00:16:07 ◼   ► might be the opposite of what they [TS]

00:16:08 ◼   ► wanted to do right like it seems like [TS]

00:16:10 ◼   ► this is long-term removing them from [TS]

00:16:13 ◼   ► from being required to use their tools [TS]

00:16:16 ◼   ► so now you know like the server side [TS]

00:16:18 ◼   ► stuff now like before [TS]

00:16:19 ◼   ► so one of the biggest reasons why people [TS]

00:16:22 ◼   ► would buy windows servers was not [TS]

00:16:24 ◼   ► because they're particularly amazing but [TS]

00:16:26 ◼   ► because they had to to run their dotnet [TS]

00:16:28 ◼   ► server stuff because that stuff is what [TS]

00:16:30 ◼   ► they were comfortable developing in or [TS]

00:16:32 ◼   ► what they use already or what was best [TS]

00:16:33 ◼   ► for them for whatever reason so windows [TS]

00:16:35 ◼   ► had a lot of my client had a lot of a [TS]

00:16:37 ◼   ► server-side software sales from people [TS]

00:16:40 ◼   ► who are kind of forced to use windows [TS]

00:16:41 ◼   ► server who might have chosen linux if [TS]

00:16:43 ◼   ► they could have and with these and [TS]

00:16:45 ◼   ► they're you know this the mono project [TS]

00:16:47 ◼   ► and then the summer and things like this [TS]

00:16:49 ◼   ► this is not new but it is it's always [TS]

00:16:52 ◼   ► kind of been like a second class citizen [TS]

00:16:53 ◼   ► it was always kinda like well if you [TS]

00:16:56 ◼   ► were the IT manager you probably [TS]

00:16:57 ◼   ► wouldn't choose that because you'd be [TS]

00:16:59 ◼   ► you'd be scared of compatibility or [TS]

00:17:00 ◼   ► whatever so what [TS]

00:17:03 ◼   ► how does it help Microsoft now [TS]

00:17:05 ◼   ► to have linux be or become soon a first [TS]

00:17:08 ◼   ► class citizen to run their their server [TS]

00:17:11 ◼   ► side stuff which means nobody wants [TS]

00:17:13 ◼   ► nobody needs to buy windows server [TS]

00:17:14 ◼   ► anymore [TS]

00:17:15 ◼   ► why does it help Apple to open-source [TS]

00:17:17 ◼   ► Swift it or let me rephrase why does it [TS]

00:17:22 ◼   ► help Apple to make swift compatible with [TS]

00:17:24 ◼   ► linux that's a better question [TS]

00:17:26 ◼   ► well i think first of all that Apple [TS]

00:17:28 ◼   ► needs Swift on linux because they need [TS]

00:17:31 ◼   ► to run their own services on it I i [TS]

00:17:33 ◼   ► think that that's a big thing right now [TS]

00:17:34 ◼   ► with apple is that their services are [TS]

00:17:36 ◼   ► are built on what was rumored to be a [TS]

00:17:41 ◼   ► lot of web objects and old java stuff [TS]

00:17:43 ◼   ► and just kinda just like old stuff that [TS]

00:17:45 ◼   ► is that he either is not maintained [TS]

00:17:47 ◼   ► anymore was maintained only by apple or [TS]

00:17:49 ◼   ► is not the right tool for the job or [TS]

00:17:51 ◼   ► just in disrepair and so I think Apple [TS]

00:17:53 ◼   ► really wants Swift on linux for [TS]

00:17:57 ◼   ► themselves for their own service [TS]

00:17:58 ◼   ► division with Microsoft I don't know how [TS]

00:18:01 ◼   ► much they need III don't know I I don't [TS]

00:18:02 ◼   ► know that that's why I'm asking like [TS]

00:18:03 ◼   ► this this is I don't know that is [TS]

00:18:05 ◼   ► necessarily even a good question but [TS]

00:18:06 ◼   ► just like it is a good idea for [TS]

00:18:08 ◼   ► Microsoft long-term to to make Windows [TS]

00:18:11 ◼   ► Server unnecessary but they make their [TS]

00:18:14 ◼   ► money off windows server as much as they [TS]

00:18:16 ◼   ► make it off exchange licenses and office [TS]

00:18:18 ◼   ► licenses and stuff and like they're like [TS]

00:18:20 ◼   ► the Oracle is a great example [TS]

00:18:22 ◼   ► oracle is enterprise software company [TS]

00:18:23 ◼   ► that makes tons and tons of money and [TS]

00:18:28 ◼   ► they don't sell that they don't force [TS]

00:18:29 ◼   ► you to buy an operating system i mean [TS]

00:18:31 ◼   ► they do have oracle enterprise linux [TS]

00:18:32 ◼   ► right but it's linux right that they [TS]

00:18:34 ◼   ► don't sell hardware uh they're just [TS]

00:18:36 ◼   ► selling you their software and it's [TS]

00:18:38 ◼   ► qualified and certain piece of hardware [TS]

00:18:40 ◼   ► and his relationships with people who [TS]

00:18:41 ◼   ► will sell you the hardware and what OS [TS]

00:18:43 ◼   ► you should have or whatever but that's [TS]

00:18:45 ◼   ► when you sell what they're going to do [TS]

00:18:47 ◼   ► what i want to use it and exchange [TS]

00:18:49 ◼   ► license for certain number of people to [TS]

00:18:51 ◼   ► remember and it's not as if doing this [TS]

00:18:54 ◼   ► makes it more likely that there will be [TS]

00:18:56 ◼   ► in a successful exchange competitor like [TS]

00:18:58 ◼   ► Google's always tried to do with Google [TS]

00:18:59 ◼   ► Apps and everything which is entirely [TS]

00:19:00 ◼   ► different approach and much more server [TS]

00:19:02 ◼   ► side but as far as Marcus officers [TS]

00:19:03 ◼   ► concerned you mentioned like Apple I [TS]

00:19:05 ◼   ► call apple has unlimited service of [TS]

00:19:06 ◼   ► course they want to work on linux it's [TS]

00:19:08 ◼   ► not unreasonable to imagine that [TS]

00:19:10 ◼   ► Microsoft might decide kind of like I [TS]

00:19:14 ◼   ► mean you talk about some before one of [TS]

00:19:15 ◼   ► things did son-in-law [TS]

00:19:16 ◼   ► was linux right the idea that you can [TS]

00:19:19 ◼   ► only run exchange on a Windows Server [TS]

00:19:21 ◼   ► it's crappy for kind of everyone [TS]

00:19:24 ◼   ► including Microsoft Word Microsoft ever [TS]

00:19:26 ◼   ► want to you know can you imagine a world [TS]

00:19:29 ◼   ► where microsoft sold you exchange an [TS]

00:19:31 ◼   ► office all which ran on the links of [TS]

00:19:33 ◼   ► your choice but a couple that microsoft [TS]

00:19:35 ◼   ► recommends including maybe Microsoft [TS]

00:19:36 ◼   ► variant of linux sure because if that [TS]

00:19:39 ◼   ► means that that Microsoft doesn't have [TS]

00:19:41 ◼   ► to spend money maintaining a proprietary [TS]

00:19:43 ◼   ► server is that was never quite as good [TS]

00:19:44 ◼   ► as linux anyway that's a win that's [TS]

00:19:47 ◼   ► sacrilege and like the Steve Ballmer [TS]

00:19:48 ◼   ► think what are you talking about Windows [TS]

00:19:49 ◼   ► is the crown jewel and blah blah but [TS]

00:19:51 ◼   ► this is a brave new world here if you're [TS]

00:19:52 ◼   ► really gonna do services [TS]

00:19:54 ◼   ► you can't be tied to a particular server [TS]

00:19:58 ◼   ► platform especially when it's one that's [TS]

00:19:59 ◼   ► like more difficult to manage it has [TS]

00:20:01 ◼   ► fewer companies behind in linux is [TS]

00:20:03 ◼   ► basically raced across the entire server [TS]

00:20:06 ◼   ► side ecosystem erasing every single [TS]

00:20:08 ◼   ► proprietary competitor so much so that [TS]

00:20:10 ◼   ► former primary competitors say okay well [TS]

00:20:12 ◼   ► we'll just have own variant of linux and [TS]

00:20:14 ◼   ► everyone's okay with that and just like [TS]

00:20:15 ◼   ► that's like that part of the ecosystem [TS]

00:20:17 ◼   ► has not been become the part where you [TS]

00:20:20 ◼   ► make your money and enterprise has never [TS]

00:20:21 ◼   ► been you make money of support contracts [TS]

00:20:23 ◼   ► and licensing and and charging procedure [TS]

00:20:25 ◼   ► / cpu or whatever that you do you don't [TS]

00:20:27 ◼   ► make it off selling them are Hardware [TS]

00:20:29 ◼   ► boxes or os licenses [TS]

00:20:31 ◼   ► yeah I couldn't agree with that enough I [TS]

00:20:33 ◼   ► remember being tangentially involved [TS]

00:20:36 ◼   ► with pricing quotes for things like [TS]

00:20:38 ◼   ► sharepoint and his talk and all of these [TS]

00:20:41 ◼   ► big big big software packages that are [TS]

00:20:44 ◼   ► not the server these are the things here [TS]

00:20:46 ◼   ► installing windows server and I can't [TS]

00:20:49 ◼   ► remember the details now but oftentimes [TS]

00:20:50 ◼   ► was by processor then when wen [TS]

00:20:52 ◼   ► multi-core processors became a thing I [TS]

00:20:55 ◼   ► think at some point some software might [TS]

00:20:56 ◼   ► have been moved to a bike or [TS]

00:20:58 ◼   ► installation costs so if you have a 15 [TS]

00:21:02 ◼   ► Corps computer that doesn't make any [TS]

00:21:04 ◼   ► sense a 16-core computer with you know I [TS]

00:21:07 ◼   ► don't know four processors then you're [TS]

00:21:09 ◼   ► paying 16 times whatever the single [TS]

00:21:12 ◼   ► amount is like they make absurd amounts [TS]

00:21:15 ◼   ► of money off of the software just [TS]

00:21:17 ◼   ► comically large amounts of money off the [TS]

00:21:18 ◼   ► software and to come back to it one of [TS]

00:21:21 ◼   ► your original questions Marco like why [TS]

00:21:22 ◼   ► would why would what what is microsoft [TS]

00:21:25 ◼   ► in what did they get out of this i think [TS]

00:21:28 ◼   ► what Microsoft gets out of this [TS]

00:21:30 ◼   ► is they it would be neat for them if [TS]

00:21:34 ◼   ► writing C sharp was kind of the lingua [TS]

00:21:38 ◼   ► franca of server-side programming and [TS]

00:21:40 ◼   ► obviously there will never be one [TS]

00:21:41 ◼   ► language that's that's the standard [TS]

00:21:43 ◼   ► language of server-side programming but [TS]

00:21:45 ◼   ► in the same way that java is huge today [TS]

00:21:47 ◼   ► in part because it's open source so much [TS]

00:21:51 ◼   ► of that is going open source now that [TS]

00:21:53 ◼   ► why couldn't a dotnet be the new Java in [TS]

00:21:57 ◼   ► the future and because it's the old Java [TS]

00:21:59 ◼   ► well that's better than the old Java [TS]

00:22:02 ◼   ► it's a lot as it has better support you [TS]

00:22:04 ◼   ► know me like that especially now that [TS]

00:22:05 ◼   ► son has been gobbled up and everything [TS]

00:22:08 ◼   ► like who is I mean I guess java lurches [TS]

00:22:10 ◼   ► forward but if anyone was going to [TS]

00:22:12 ◼   ► compete against java as like Casey says [TS]

00:22:14 ◼   ► the sort of default safe enterprise [TS]

00:22:17 ◼   ► server side language it would be C sharp [TS]

00:22:19 ◼   ► and part of the thing it's been hurting [TS]

00:22:21 ◼   ► microsoft story is here but then we [TS]

00:22:24 ◼   ► gotta buy windows servers and everyone [TS]

00:22:25 ◼   ► knows that feeling like especially if [TS]

00:22:27 ◼   ► you have an organization that has all [TS]

00:22:29 ◼   ► their other servers that are living [TS]

00:22:30 ◼   ► space then everyone's happy with them [TS]

00:22:31 ◼   ► and they're all they have to have an [TS]

00:22:33 ◼   ► entire organization built up around [TS]

00:22:34 ◼   ► managing those servers and like the idea [TS]

00:22:36 ◼   ► that they can buy different hardware [TS]

00:22:37 ◼   ► from different vendors and and change [TS]

00:22:39 ◼   ► you know different distributions and [TS]

00:22:41 ◼   ► everything like that and then someone [TS]

00:22:42 ◼   ► comes in and says hey you guys should [TS]

00:22:43 ◼   ► use a sharp and write all your services [TS]

00:22:46 ◼   ► seven sharp using this service side [TS]

00:22:48 ◼   ► frame working at the end like hopin we [TS]

00:22:50 ◼   ► have to introduce windows servers and [TS]

00:22:52 ◼   ► nobody wants that like you can't really [TS]

00:22:53 ◼   ► mix it up it's almost like they keep [TS]

00:22:54 ◼   ► those people separate like you have one [TS]

00:22:56 ◼   ► set of people who manage the the [TS]

00:22:59 ◼   ► linux-based servers and one set of [TS]

00:23:02 ◼   ► people who manage the window space [TS]

00:23:03 ◼   ► service and I don't know if you bring [TS]

00:23:04 ◼   ► people to the same room that they were [TS]

00:23:05 ◼   ► just collide annihilate and i think the [TS]

00:23:10 ◼   ► other thing we should say a couple quick [TS]

00:23:11 ◼   ► notes first of all csharp is great [TS]

00:23:14 ◼   ► language you really really is i know [TS]

00:23:15 ◼   ► they're going to be people out there who [TS]

00:23:17 ◼   ► are rolling their eyes but truly c-sharp [TS]

00:23:19 ◼   ► is a wonderful wonderful language that [TS]

00:23:21 ◼   ► can be many many many different things [TS]

00:23:23 ◼   ► too many many many different people and [TS]

00:23:25 ◼   ► i've been writing a lot of Swift over [TS]

00:23:27 ◼   ► the last couple of weeks and i'm really [TS]

00:23:29 ◼   ► loving Swift but csharp is also a truly [TS]

00:23:32 ◼   ► wonderful language and fixes many of the [TS]

00:23:35 ◼   ► ills that java brought to the table and [TS]

00:23:38 ◼   ► let's assume for a second that you're [TS]

00:23:42 ◼   ► firm or your staff is really into [TS]

00:23:44 ◼   ► c-sharp l maybe they've never touched [TS]

00:23:47 ◼   ► Microsoft servers but they're really [TS]

00:23:50 ◼   ► into c sharp and they think to [TS]

00:23:51 ◼   ► themselves man i really want to go to [TS]

00:23:54 ◼   ► the cloud with the c-sharp instead of [TS]

00:23:56 ◼   ► staying on premise with linux or [TS]

00:23:57 ◼   ► on-premises with Microsoft it doesn't [TS]

00:23:59 ◼   ► matter what cloud environment should we [TS]

00:24:02 ◼   ► go to we could just go to Azure which [TS]

00:24:05 ◼   ► probably will do very well with AC sharp [TS]

00:24:08 ◼   ► base deployment and even faster is is [TS]

00:24:11 ◼   ► Microsoft service behind-the-scenes who [TS]

00:24:12 ◼   ► cares because you don't have to worry [TS]

00:24:14 ◼   ► about it anyway so i think that there's [TS]

00:24:17 ◼   ► plenty to gain from Microsoft by doing [TS]

00:24:19 ◼   ► this but we'll see what really ends up [TS]

00:24:22 ◼   ► happening about I don't know how much [TS]

00:24:23 ◼   ► Sam and specifically will make a [TS]

00:24:25 ◼   ► difference but the idea of Microsoft [TS]

00:24:26 ◼   ► pushing to being everywhere are to [TS]

00:24:30 ◼   ► having two sharp everywhere i think is a [TS]

00:24:31 ◼   ► good thing [TS]

00:24:32 ◼   ► John any other last thoughts you have a [TS]

00:24:34 ◼   ► one minor point of speaking about the [TS]

00:24:37 ◼   ► oracle and sun yes of course Oracle was [TS]

00:24:38 ◼   ► the company the bots on which means that [TS]

00:24:40 ◼   ► oracle does actually sell hardware [TS]

00:24:41 ◼   ► narrow because some used to sell [TS]

00:24:42 ◼   ► hardware and now Oracle software through [TS]

00:24:45 ◼   ► sounds they sell ZFS storage devices and [TS]

00:24:46 ◼   ► stuff like that thing does that count [TS]

00:24:49 ◼   ► I'll count is that kind of the day [TS]

00:24:52 ◼   ► ZFS storage devices there are file [TS]

00:24:54 ◼   ► systems on them [TS]

00:24:55 ◼   ► I don't think it counts but that's a [TS]

00:24:57 ◼   ► tough one right over so i rescind i [TS]

00:24:59 ◼   ► rescind my ding a second sponsor this [TS]

00:25:02 ◼   ► week is fracture go to fracture me.com [TS]

00:25:05 ◼   ► to see for yourself and use code ATP ten [TS]

00:25:07 ◼   ► to ten for ten percent off your first [TS]

00:25:09 ◼   ► order fracture prints photos in vivid [TS]

00:25:12 ◼   ► color directly onto glass now colors pop [TS]

00:25:15 ◼   ► like you won't believe it comes in a [TS]

00:25:16 ◼   ► solid backing it's ready to mount right [TS]

00:25:19 ◼   ► out of the package all you have to do is [TS]

00:25:21 ◼   ► stick the included screws in the wall [TS]

00:25:22 ◼   ► and hang it up done also very affordable [TS]

00:25:25 ◼   ► with prices starting in just fifteen [TS]

00:25:26 ◼   ► dollars for their small square size and [TS]

00:25:28 ◼   ► going very reasonably from their [TS]

00:25:29 ◼   ► fracture prints are great and they make [TS]

00:25:32 ◼   ► great gifts for family friends and loved [TS]

00:25:34 ◼   ► ones because they're already the perfect [TS]

00:25:36 ◼   ► way to celebrate a shared memory with [TS]

00:25:37 ◼   ► something that's also unique and modern [TS]

00:25:39 ◼   ► and they're really affordable and it [TS]

00:25:40 ◼   ► look really good [TS]

00:25:41 ◼   ► so check it out today go to fracture [TS]

00:25:43 ◼   ► me.com again use code ATP ten for ten [TS]

00:25:47 ◼   ► percent off your first order they're I [TS]

00:25:49 ◼   ► fracture all over all over our house now [TS]

00:25:51 ◼   ► they used to start off in the office [TS]

00:25:53 ◼   ► there now spreading to the rest of the [TS]

00:25:55 ◼   ► house now [TS]

00:25:56 ◼   ► and everyone always compliments them [TS]

00:25:57 ◼   ► people love these things they look great [TS]

00:25:59 ◼   ► these great photo prints right there on [TS]

00:26:01 ◼   ► glass these nice thin lightweight pieces [TS]

00:26:04 ◼   ► of glass that you it's not gonna like [TS]

00:26:05 ◼   ► fall off the walls giant heavy pain it's [TS]

00:26:07 ◼   ► a nice thin piece of glass and it sits [TS]

00:26:10 ◼   ► there nice and flat against the wall and [TS]

00:26:11 ◼   ► it just looks modern and clean you don't [TS]

00:26:14 ◼   ► forget frame you don't try to flatten [TS]

00:26:16 ◼   ► the paper and it within the frame [TS]

00:26:18 ◼   ► against the glass none of that stuff [TS]

00:26:20 ◼   ► easy simple they look great they're [TS]

00:26:23 ◼   ► incredibly well priced check out today [TS]

00:26:25 ◼   ► at fracture me.com use code ATP ten for [TS]

00:26:28 ◼   ► ten percent off thanks a lot to fracture [TS]

00:26:30 ◼   ► for sponsorship yes so there's been some [TS]

00:26:32 ◼   ► interesting things going on with the [TS]

00:26:34 ◼   ► United States government and apple and I [TS]

00:26:37 ◼   ► don't even I do we really need to recap [TS]

00:26:40 ◼   ► this I guess we probably should give the [TS]

00:26:41 ◼   ► short version of an overview would be [TS]

00:26:43 ◼   ► helpful for people who listen in the [TS]

00:26:45 ◼   ► future [TS]

00:26:46 ◼   ► yeah although anyone listening store in [TS]

00:26:48 ◼   ► real time as we know that the star came [TS]

00:26:49 ◼   ► out right after recorded last week so [TS]

00:26:51 ◼   ► presumably everyone listening to the [TS]

00:26:53 ◼   ► show when it's released knows all the [TS]

00:26:54 ◼   ► details but we should summarize is does [TS]

00:26:57 ◼   ► that mean I'm the one summarizing I can [TS]

00:26:59 ◼   ► we can take a crack at it real quick you [TS]

00:27:01 ◼   ► do seem to be the chief summarizer on [TS]

00:27:03 ◼   ► the show maybe John you and John is [TS]

00:27:05 ◼   ► arced are closed for that I don't know [TS]

00:27:06 ◼   ► co-chief summarizer i'm certainly not so [TS]

00:27:09 ◼   ► i know i'm saying i can sit back and [TS]

00:27:10 ◼   ► drink my tea right how about I'll take a [TS]

00:27:12 ◼   ► stab at it here and you guys can [TS]

00:27:14 ◼   ► interrupt your ready so there was a [TS]

00:27:18 ◼   ► terrible terrible terrible shooting in [TS]

00:27:20 ◼   ► december i believe last year in San [TS]

00:27:22 ◼   ► Bernardino California a couple of people [TS]

00:27:25 ◼   ► took it upon themselves to commit this [TS]

00:27:28 ◼   ► really heinous act and kill a lot of [TS]

00:27:29 ◼   ► people and that's really really terrible [TS]

00:27:31 ◼   ► and there's no there's no discussion [TS]

00:27:33 ◼   ► about that it's it's terrible [TS]

00:27:35 ◼   ► it was a terrorist act it it's something [TS]

00:27:38 ◼   ► that's really unfortunate these two [TS]

00:27:40 ◼   ► people suspects perpetrators whatever we [TS]

00:27:42 ◼   ► like to call them they one of them it [TS]

00:27:44 ◼   ► was a husband-wife pair of the husband [TS]

00:27:47 ◼   ► had two phones two iphones as far as we [TS]

00:27:50 ◼   ► know one of them was destroyed that was [TS]

00:27:52 ◼   ► his personal phone his wife's personal [TS]

00:27:53 ◼   ► phone also destroyed [TS]

00:27:55 ◼   ► he also had an iphone 5c that was issued [TS]

00:27:57 ◼   ► to him by his job which coincidentally [TS]

00:28:00 ◼   ► is the San Bernardino government the [TS]

00:28:04 ◼   ► iphone 5c has passcode on it [TS]

00:28:06 ◼   ► and it is quite possible that if you it [TS]

00:28:10 ◼   ► could be set up such that if you enter [TS]

00:28:12 ◼   ► the passcode incorrectly ten times in a [TS]

00:28:14 ◼   ► row it will nuke everything on the phone [TS]

00:28:16 ◼   ► the iphone is in the custody of the [TS]

00:28:20 ◼   ► federal bureau of investigation the FBI [TS]

00:28:23 ◼   ► the FBI wants what's on that phone but [TS]

00:28:26 ◼   ► they can't get to it because it has this [TS]

00:28:28 ◼   ► passcode it could have the destruction [TS]

00:28:31 ◼   ► setting turned on such that if they [TS]

00:28:33 ◼   ► enter the wrong code ten times it will [TS]

00:28:36 ◼   ► destroy itself or destroy all the data [TS]

00:28:38 ◼   ► additionally they were advised by apple [TS]

00:28:41 ◼   ► at some point or another hey we have [TS]

00:28:45 ◼   ► iCloud backup so we don't have any from [TS]

00:28:47 ◼   ► the last six or so weeks I forget [TS]

00:28:48 ◼   ► exactly how many it doesn't really [TS]

00:28:50 ◼   ► matter [TS]

00:28:51 ◼   ► we don't have a recent like iCloud [TS]

00:28:53 ◼   ► backup we have a semi recent one and you [TS]

00:28:56 ◼   ► know what you should do is you should [TS]

00:28:57 ◼   ► take the phone and bring it to this [TS]

00:28:58 ◼   ► guy's work where presumably there is a [TS]

00:29:02 ◼   ► known a Wi-Fi network and you should [TS]

00:29:05 ◼   ► turn the phone on and just let it sit [TS]

00:29:06 ◼   ► overnight plug-in let it sit overnight [TS]

00:29:08 ◼   ► and presumably if everything has been [TS]

00:29:10 ◼   ► set the way it usually is set that will [TS]

00:29:13 ◼   ► back up the thermal back itself up to [TS]

00:29:15 ◼   ► iCloud one more time and it [TS]

00:29:18 ◼   ► the implication from what we've read is [TS]

00:29:20 ◼   ► that not everything in iCloud as well [TS]

00:29:22 ◼   ► encrypted as perhaps we'd like it to be [TS]

00:29:24 ◼   ► thus Apple could get to that data and [TS]

00:29:27 ◼   ► handed over to the FBI and everyone's [TS]

00:29:28 ◼   ► happy [TS]

00:29:29 ◼   ► I'm actually honestly I'm pretty sure [TS]

00:29:30 ◼   ► from Apple's point of view [TS]

00:29:32 ◼   ► nothing I cloud is encrypted is so every [TS]

00:29:34 ◼   ► big you can you can do the encrypted [TS]

00:29:36 ◼   ► backups through itunes on your desktop [TS]

00:29:38 ◼   ► and is off by default so for a while as [TS]

00:29:41 ◼   ► we all learned whenever we get a new [TS]

00:29:42 ◼   ► phone or phone with diabetic a [TS]

00:29:43 ◼   ► replacement on with the render all our [TS]

00:29:46 ◼   ► passwords and the reason why is because [TS]

00:29:48 ◼   ► anything is encrypted on the device in [TS]

00:29:50 ◼   ► the keychain which is all your passwords [TS]

00:29:52 ◼   ► and stuff restored the by any [TS]

00:29:55 ◼   ► unencrypted backup does not include [TS]

00:29:57 ◼   ► those things so by default the itunes [TS]

00:29:59 ◼   ► back up to and including unless you [TS]

00:30:01 ◼   ► check little boxing and keep my backup [TS]

00:30:02 ◼   ► which we all do because we are [TS]

00:30:04 ◼   ► professional iphone restores but not [TS]

00:30:06 ◼   ► everyone knows that and then with iCloud [TS]

00:30:08 ◼   ► backups there is no option to encrypt [TS]

00:30:10 ◼   ► iCloud backups at least not today maybe [TS]

00:30:12 ◼   ► in the future there will be as a result [TS]

00:30:14 ◼   ► of this but they are encrypted but Apple [TS]

00:30:16 ◼   ► has the key [TS]

00:30:16 ◼   ► alright so they aren't yet they are [TS]

00:30:18 ◼   ► encrypted to apple [TS]

00:30:19 ◼   ► no and so as a result nothing that's [TS]

00:30:22 ◼   ► that's encrypted on the phone in key [TS]

00:30:24 ◼   ► chain gets backed up so but it almost [TS]

00:30:26 ◼   ► everything like any kind of like content [TS]

00:30:28 ◼   ► you know text messages I i assume would [TS]

00:30:31 ◼   ► be there any kind of you know appdata [TS]

00:30:33 ◼   ► that's that's marked as be as being for [TS]

00:30:37 ◼   ► backup [TS]

00:30:38 ◼   ► so documents you've made an appt and [TS]

00:30:39 ◼   ► everything those would be included an [TS]

00:30:41 ◼   ► apple had access to all those an apple [TS]

00:30:43 ◼   ► gave access to all of those to the FBI [TS]

00:30:45 ◼   ► before this even blew up and became a [TS]

00:30:47 ◼   ► thing because apple had access to them [TS]

00:30:49 ◼   ► through my club but they only had an [TS]

00:30:51 ◼   ► older backup if several weeks old it [TS]

00:30:52 ◼   ► doesn't matter how many so they advise [TS]

00:30:56 ◼   ► the FBI in san bernardino please take [TS]

00:30:58 ◼   ► the phone to the San Bernardino [TS]

00:30:59 ◼   ► government whatever particular branch is [TS]

00:31:00 ◼   ► this person was in leave it on overnight [TS]

00:31:02 ◼   ► and it all back yourself up to iCloud at [TS]

00:31:05 ◼   ► which point the police and FBI awkwardly [TS]

00:31:08 ◼   ► grabbed their collars pulling them away [TS]

00:31:09 ◼   ► from their necks and said about that we [TS]

00:31:13 ◼   ► might have changed his iCloud password [TS]

00:31:15 ◼   ► already so that phone is gonna try to [TS]

00:31:20 ◼   ► back up to iCloud maybe and it's going [TS]

00:31:23 ◼   ► to see that it doesn't really have the [TS]

00:31:25 ◼   ► right password so that's not gonna work [TS]

00:31:28 ◼   ► right so the FBI's decided to ask Apple [TS]

00:31:33 ◼   ► for a few things [TS]

00:31:36 ◼   ► it's that it would like apple to write a [TS]

00:31:38 ◼   ► custom build of iOS that as far as the [TS]

00:31:42 ◼   ► FBI is concerned they are happy to be [TS]

00:31:44 ◼   ► signed in such a way that it would only [TS]

00:31:47 ◼   ► work on this particular device it will [TS]

00:31:50 ◼   ► allow them to it will bypass the setting [TS]

00:31:54 ◼   ► that will self-destruct the encryption [TS]

00:31:57 ◼   ► after ten failed password attempts so [TS]

00:32:00 ◼   ► they can attempt as many as I'd like [TS]

00:32:02 ◼   ► additionally they like any sort of time [TS]

00:32:05 ◼   ► delay to go away if there is one and I [TS]

00:32:08 ◼   ► forget exactly when those came in when [TS]

00:32:09 ◼   ► they're when they're when they're not [TS]

00:32:10 ◼   ► but suffice to say there is a time delay [TS]

00:32:12 ◼   ► they'd like to go away and additionally [TS]

00:32:13 ◼   ► they like to be able to enter the [TS]

00:32:14 ◼   ► passcode not by media fingers on the [TS]

00:32:16 ◼   ► screen but by bluetooth or Wi-Fi or a [TS]

00:32:19 ◼   ► cable or anyway so that it can be [TS]

00:32:22 ◼   ► automated with an external computer [TS]

00:32:24 ◼   ► the FBI is said we'd like to do it at [TS]

00:32:26 ◼   ► our place or apple if you'd prefer we [TS]

00:32:28 ◼   ► can do it at your house [TS]

00:32:30 ◼   ► that's fine too the the endgame for the [TS]

00:32:32 ◼   ► FBI [TS]

00:32:33 ◼   ► is that they want to be able to throw a [TS]

00:32:36 ◼   ► gazillion passcodes at this thing in a [TS]

00:32:38 ◼   ► very short window of time to brute force [TS]

00:32:40 ◼   ► their way into it so that by some [TS]

00:32:45 ◼   ► measures and we'll get into what we [TS]

00:32:46 ◼   ► think here in a second but some people [TS]

00:32:49 ◼   ► will are of the opinion that that's a [TS]

00:32:50 ◼   ► perfectly reasonable point of view from [TS]

00:32:52 ◼   ► the FBI that they only wanted for one [TS]

00:32:55 ◼   ► phone [TS]

00:32:56 ◼   ► they only want to do it this once and [TS]

00:32:58 ◼   ► they they're even willing to have apple [TS]

00:33:00 ◼   ► do it in in cupertino and Apple's own [TS]

00:33:03 ◼   ► environment and the FBI will either come [TS]

00:33:05 ◼   ► to them or if Apple gives them like [TS]

00:33:07 ◼   ► remote access to a machine that can [TS]

00:33:10 ◼   ► enter passcode the FBI will do it [TS]

00:33:12 ◼   ► remotely they don't care they just [TS]

00:33:13 ◼   ► wanted this one time for this one phone [TS]

00:33:15 ◼   ► to see if possibly maybe something on [TS]

00:33:19 ◼   ► that will indicate that this was part of [TS]

00:33:21 ◼   ► a wider terrorist plot rather than a [TS]

00:33:23 ◼   ► couple of crazy people doing something [TS]

00:33:25 ◼   ► that is really really on just uncool [TS]

00:33:28 ◼   ► that's the FBI's perspective apples [TS]

00:33:31 ◼   ► perspective is hey if we do this once [TS]

00:33:34 ◼   ► that's establishing a legal precedent [TS]

00:33:36 ◼   ► that means you can ask us to do this [TS]

00:33:38 ◼   ► many many more times [TS]

00:33:40 ◼   ► not only that but we would have to write [TS]

00:33:43 ◼   ► code to do this and that seems a bit [TS]

00:33:44 ◼   ► unreasonable to tell us to write a bunch [TS]

00:33:46 ◼   ► of code to allow you to tu brute force [TS]

00:33:50 ◼   ► your way into a phone that we've spent a [TS]

00:33:52 ◼   ► long time trying to make sure that isn't [TS]

00:33:55 ◼   ► possible [TS]

00:33:56 ◼   ► beyond that a lot of government entities [TS]

00:34:00 ◼   ► have come out of the woodwork over the [TS]

00:34:01 ◼   ► last 48 hours saying you know what if [TS]

00:34:04 ◼   ► this works for the FBI we have a bunch [TS]

00:34:06 ◼   ► of iphones we'd like to do that for two [TS]

00:34:08 ◼   ► ok cool sounds great so Apple is of the [TS]

00:34:11 ◼   ► opinion that this is a backdoor and [TS]

00:34:13 ◼   ► again we'll get into what we think in a [TS]

00:34:15 ◼   ► second but apple says this is a backdoor [TS]

00:34:17 ◼   ► and in fact just earlier today Tim Cook [TS]

00:34:20 ◼   ► was didn't it especially with ABC News [TS]

00:34:23 ◼   ► where he used the analogy that creating [TS]

00:34:27 ◼   ► this is like creating a software version [TS]

00:34:28 ◼   ► of cancer which by the way i think a [TS]

00:34:30 ◼   ► virus would be a better analogy there [TS]

00:34:32 ◼   ► then test as well yeah I thought he [TS]

00:34:36 ◼   ► hammered that analogy a little too hard [TS]

00:34:39 ◼   ► because it isn't that great of one he [TS]

00:34:41 ◼   ► had [TS]

00:34:42 ◼   ► a handful of talking points and [TS]

00:34:43 ◼   ► unfortunately the interviewer had more [TS]

00:34:44 ◼   ► than a handful of questions so it was [TS]

00:34:46 ◼   ► just like after the first round was like [TS]

00:34:48 ◼   ► which one of my talking points am I [TS]

00:34:50 ◼   ► going to use a reply for this question [TS]

00:34:52 ◼   ► yeah it was the same thing just over and [TS]

00:34:54 ◼   ► over and over again which is really too [TS]

00:34:55 ◼   ► bad but in any case so apples of the [TS]

00:34:58 ◼   ► opinion this is a backdoor once we've [TS]

00:35:00 ◼   ► done this once we're going to be asked [TS]

00:35:02 ◼   ► to do it a thousand times we don't think [TS]

00:35:03 ◼   ► it's fair to do it even once we don't [TS]

00:35:05 ◼   ► think it's fair to us we don't think [TS]

00:35:07 ◼   ► it's fair to our customers were not into [TS]

00:35:09 ◼   ► it so the Apple is saying we're not [TS]

00:35:11 ◼   ► going to do it and more than that [TS]

00:35:14 ◼   ► Tim Cook said in this interview we are [TS]

00:35:17 ◼   ► willing to go all the way to the Supreme [TS]

00:35:18 ◼   ► Court fighting this because we think [TS]

00:35:20 ◼   ► that's what's right is that a pretty [TS]

00:35:22 ◼   ► reasonable summary of where we are today [TS]

00:35:24 ◼   ► pretty much I mean like there's a lot [TS]

00:35:27 ◼   ► more detail here that we could just just [TS]

00:35:29 ◼   ► by stating everything we have either [TS]

00:35:32 ◼   ► learned or that's been talked about over [TS]

00:35:33 ◼   ► the last week or so since is really [TS]

00:35:35 ◼   ► broke we could fill the whole hour and a [TS]

00:35:38 ◼   ► half with this and we shouldn't because [TS]

00:35:40 ◼   ► they'll take too long i think let's [TS]

00:35:42 ◼   ► assume that everyone who wants to know [TS]

00:35:43 ◼   ► more about this will will go and read up [TS]

00:35:45 ◼   ► on whatever is new and whatever has [TS]

00:35:47 ◼   ► happened so far and i think it's [TS]

00:35:49 ◼   ► probably safe for us to talk about it [TS]

00:35:50 ◼   ► now rather than just keep going over the [TS]

00:35:53 ◼   ► details of it right [TS]

00:35:54 ◼   ► good deal that's what we think it makes [TS]

00:35:58 ◼   ► me sad every part of this makes me sad [TS]

00:36:00 ◼   ► there there's so much of this that is [TS]

00:36:02 ◼   ► that is just like crappy politics [TS]

00:36:05 ◼   ► playing each other out and that mostly [TS]

00:36:08 ◼   ► on the government's honestly I mean [TS]

00:36:09 ◼   ► listeners of the show should know that [TS]

00:36:12 ◼   ► we do not we do not shy away from [TS]

00:36:15 ◼   ► criticizing Apple when it is warranted [TS]

00:36:18 ◼   ► we will call them out on things that we [TS]

00:36:20 ◼   ► think are BS or things that we think are [TS]

00:36:22 ◼   ► worse than they should be or not or are [TS]

00:36:24 ◼   ► just not you know not good enough in [TS]

00:36:26 ◼   ► this case though I think I i think apple [TS]

00:36:30 ◼   ► is mostly in the right and not a hundred [TS]

00:36:33 ◼   ► percent in the right because and and [TS]

00:36:36 ◼   ► again we should point also you know none [TS]

00:36:37 ◼   ► of us for lawyers so you know I [TS]

00:36:40 ◼   ► apologize to anybody listening to those [TS]

00:36:42 ◼   ► who knows more about the law that we do [TS]

00:36:44 ◼   ► who's screaming at whatever we don't [TS]

00:36:46 ◼   ► mention or get wrong but I that the one [TS]

00:36:50 ◼   ► thing that I think makes us a weaker [TS]

00:36:53 ◼   ► argument for them [TS]

00:36:54 ◼   ► is that it is technically possible for [TS]

00:36:57 ◼   ► them to do this and I wonder in the [TS]

00:37:00 ◼   ► future you know I I assume it's already [TS]

00:37:02 ◼   ► somebody's project Apple it wasn't [TS]

00:37:04 ◼   ► already i assume it is now somebody's [TS]

00:37:06 ◼   ► project project of Apple 22 head and [TS]

00:37:08 ◼   ► effort to actually make this impossible [TS]

00:37:10 ◼   ► to do in the future to remove their [TS]

00:37:12 ◼   ► technical ability to do anything like [TS]

00:37:14 ◼   ► this and there are a number of ways that [TS]

00:37:16 ◼   ► they could do that their number of [TS]

00:37:18 ◼   ► challenges to that but ultimately i [TS]

00:37:21 ◼   ► think i've mostly agree with apple that [TS]

00:37:24 ◼   ► they i stand with them that they that [TS]

00:37:27 ◼   ► they ideally shouldn't do this but it [TS]

00:37:30 ◼   ► does weaken their argument a little bit [TS]

00:37:32 ◼   ► that they can do it when you say can do [TS]

00:37:35 ◼   ► it what you mean is I don't let me put [TS]

00:37:37 ◼   ► words in my mouth and just make sure [TS]

00:37:38 ◼   ► we're on the same page [TS]

00:37:39 ◼   ► what you mean is they could write a [TS]

00:37:41 ◼   ► custom version of iOS that is [TS]

00:37:43 ◼   ► specifically for this one and only one [TS]

00:37:46 ◼   ► phone that would get the FBI what [TS]

00:37:48 ◼   ► they're asking for [TS]

00:37:49 ◼   ► I think now first of all it is [TS]

00:37:51 ◼   ► definitely worth reading this article [TS]

00:37:53 ◼   ► and please forgive me for the [TS]

00:37:55 ◼   ► presentation to get it wrong by Jonathan [TS]

00:37:57 ◼   ► Villar ski he died i don't i don't know [TS]

00:38:01 ◼   ► him but he appears to be somebody who [TS]

00:38:03 ◼   ► specializes in iOS forensics and like [TS]

00:38:06 ◼   ► testifying in court using iOS forensic [TS]

00:38:10 ◼   ► tools and creating forensic tools and [TS]

00:38:12 ◼   ► his his post here kind of explains that [TS]

00:38:14 ◼   ► the legal implications of everything [TS]

00:38:16 ◼   ► apple kind of have to do if they make [TS]

00:38:17 ◼   ► this instrument the FBI's demand that [TS]

00:38:19 ◼   ► they make [TS]

00:38:20 ◼   ► I don't think the FBI is really asking [TS]

00:38:22 ◼   ► for justice one phone to be decrypted [TS]

00:38:24 ◼   ► once and that's it i think they're [TS]

00:38:26 ◼   ► asking for the the continuous ability to [TS]

00:38:29 ◼   ► do this you know whenever it is [TS]

00:38:31 ◼   ► warranted or whenever there is a quarter [TS]

00:38:34 ◼   ► or want to do it so it and even if they [TS]

00:38:37 ◼   ► aren't asking for that now that's really [TS]

00:38:39 ◼   ► what they're asking for like you know [TS]

00:38:41 ◼   ► you like even if they're not asking for [TS]

00:38:42 ◼   ► that in in the legal text that is what [TS]

00:38:45 ◼   ► will happen here because this will set [TS]

00:38:46 ◼   ► precedent and then it'll be so much [TS]

00:38:48 ◼   ► easier next time someone asks for this [TS]

00:38:50 ◼   ► to be like oh well you did it for that [TS]

00:38:52 ◼   ► he this was important you know and and I [TS]

00:38:54 ◼   ► think to cover that pretty well honestly [TS]

00:38:56 ◼   ► I ultimately i think his interview on [TS]

00:38:58 ◼   ► ABC news i watched it right before the [TS]

00:38:59 ◼   ► show tonight i think is if you actually [TS]

00:39:01 ◼   ► was very good overall there there were [TS]

00:39:03 ◼   ► some parts that were a little bit [TS]

00:39:05 ◼   ► uncomfortable and cringe-worthy but [TS]

00:39:06 ◼   ► overall [TS]

00:39:07 ◼   ► I think it was very good and I think he [TS]

00:39:09 ◼   ► might very well and I think I think at a [TS]

00:39:12 ◼   ► time like this [TS]

00:39:14 ◼   ► this really shows this the strength of [TS]

00:39:17 ◼   ► tim cook and and how how we are lucky to [TS]

00:39:20 ◼   ► have to cook as the CEO of Apple during [TS]

00:39:22 ◼   ► times like this I could not agree more [TS]

00:39:25 ◼   ► this is exactly like where he shines [TS]

00:39:27 ◼   ► like he is he is clearly and he said he [TS]

00:39:29 ◼   ► shows in the past but you know this just [TS]

00:39:31 ◼   ► you know shows more now he's clearly [TS]

00:39:33 ◼   ► very principled and he won't be pushed [TS]

00:39:36 ◼   ► around you know if it goes against his [TS]

00:39:39 ◼   ► principles and and I think this is this [TS]

00:39:41 ◼   ► just shows I mean you're not going to [TS]

00:39:43 ◼   ► see any other company or any other [TS]

00:39:45 ◼   ► executive put up the fight that he's [TS]

00:39:47 ◼   ► going to put up on this it's simple as [TS]

00:39:48 ◼   ► that I mean like you're not going to see [TS]

00:39:49 ◼   ► anyone better than him fight this on [TS]

00:39:51 ◼   ► that side of it that you know it again i [TS]

00:39:54 ◼   ► could nitpick little few little things [TS]

00:39:55 ◼   ► he said but overall I thought it was [TS]

00:39:57 ◼   ► very good [TS]

00:39:58 ◼   ► so honestly I i really do think that [TS]

00:40:01 ◼   ► Apple is totally in the right to fight [TS]

00:40:04 ◼   ► this only again only with an asterisk [TS]

00:40:06 ◼   ► that it sure would be better if their [TS]

00:40:09 ◼   ► actual answer was we actually can't [TS]

00:40:12 ◼   ► technically do this it is impossible [TS]

00:40:13 ◼   ► because then it's then it's you can [TS]

00:40:16 ◼   ► argue whether that whether it should be [TS]

00:40:17 ◼   ► legal to make things like that but you [TS]

00:40:19 ◼   ► can't argue about this case anymore then [TS]

00:40:21 ◼   ► because everyone's playing on everyone's [TS]

00:40:23 ◼   ► emotions on this ever like and Tim do [TS]

00:40:24 ◼   ► this to with his responses and he kinda [TS]

00:40:26 ◼   ► had to but like you know like at the [TS]

00:40:28 ◼   ► interviewers like well think about the [TS]

00:40:30 ◼   ► victims and the FBI all about this is [TS]

00:40:32 ◼   ► this is that this isn't about our [TS]

00:40:33 ◼   ► ability to decrypt phones forever it's [TS]

00:40:34 ◼   ► about these 14 families victims and yes [TS]

00:40:36 ◼   ► it is it is about them and this horrible [TS]

00:40:39 ◼   ► event happened this people were killed [TS]

00:40:41 ◼   ► is that there is no there's nothing [TS]

00:40:43 ◼   ► about that that is anything but horrible [TS]

00:40:45 ◼   ► and a huge tragedy but the FBI is also [TS]

00:40:48 ◼   ► using this for their political gain [TS]

00:40:50 ◼   ► they knew that they set this case up as [TS]

00:40:52 ◼   ► a perfect fighting battleground to fight [TS]

00:40:55 ◼   ► this issue on that they believe they are [TS]

00:40:58 ◼   ► entitled in this is not just the FBI [TS]

00:41:00 ◼   ► this is all law enforcement and federal [TS]

00:41:03 ◼   ► intelligence in America they believe [TS]

00:41:05 ◼   ► they are entitled to access any [TS]

00:41:08 ◼   ► information and any possessions and any [TS]

00:41:11 ◼   ► people that they want to that they [TS]

00:41:13 ◼   ► believe they need to get their job in or [TS]

00:41:15 ◼   ► they just think might be a problem or [TS]

00:41:17 ◼   ► might be relevant to crimes that might [TS]

00:41:18 ◼   ► happen or might have [TS]

00:41:19 ◼   ► happened they believe they're entitled [TS]

00:41:21 ◼   ► to it all and they get it most of the [TS]

00:41:24 ◼   ► time you know like I'm a quick walk with [TS]

00:41:26 ◼   ► us look at everything we've learned from [TS]

00:41:28 ◼   ► Edward Snowden's revelations about the [TS]

00:41:29 ◼   ► NSA of the last couple years and and [TS]

00:41:31 ◼   ► everything that's spun out from that [TS]

00:41:32 ◼   ► it's very clear and a beat between that [TS]

00:41:35 ◼   ► and between things that happened at [TS]

00:41:38 ◼   ► lower levels of law enforcement whether [TS]

00:41:40 ◼   ► just you know murdering people getting [TS]

00:41:41 ◼   ► away with it it's very clear that long [TS]

00:41:45 ◼   ► look at the culture of law enforcement [TS]

00:41:46 ◼   ► in the whole country from from national [TS]

00:41:48 ◼   ► down to local is incredibly entitled and [TS]

00:41:52 ◼   ► and just kind of mad at they operate [TS]

00:41:55 ◼   ► like a lawless military dictatorship and [TS]

00:41:58 ◼   ► where they they are entitled to [TS]

00:42:01 ◼   ► everything they want in their minds and [TS]

00:42:05 ◼   ► they usually get it and even when it's [TS]

00:42:07 ◼   ► illegal [TS]

00:42:08 ◼   ► they do it anyway and they get away with [TS]

00:42:10 ◼   ► it most of the time if I'd all the time [TS]

00:42:12 ◼   ► they get they can with it almost all the [TS]

00:42:14 ◼   ► time so they they are above the law in [TS]

00:42:17 ◼   ► their minds they they believe they are [TS]

00:42:18 ◼   ► entitled to everything and they'll say [TS]

00:42:20 ◼   ► it's about national security but you [TS]

00:42:21 ◼   ► know that's what that's what kind of [TS]

00:42:22 ◼   ► like Angry macho neocon craziness in [TS]

00:42:26 ◼   ► reality like that this culture they have [TS]

00:42:29 ◼   ► is that they are entitled to everything [TS]

00:42:31 ◼   ► all the time and whatever they want [TS]

00:42:33 ◼   ► they're entitled to do their job you [TS]

00:42:35 ◼   ► know whatever they think they're [TS]

00:42:36 ◼   ► entitled to everything right and our [TS]

00:42:38 ◼   ► country so far in recent years if not [TS]

00:42:41 ◼   ► ever in recent years supports that we we [TS]

00:42:44 ◼   ► support bye-bye what judges say by what [TS]

00:42:47 ◼   ► the people do and don't get mad about by [TS]

00:42:49 ◼   ► how quickly we all forget things we the [TS]

00:42:53 ◼   ► people and the courts and all the way up [TS]

00:42:55 ◼   ► to the presidency everyone in this [TS]

00:42:58 ◼   ► system is complacent and permits this to [TS]

00:43:00 ◼   ► happen so the reality is it doesn't [TS]

00:43:02 ◼   ► really matter what's legal here [TS]

00:43:04 ◼   ► what matters is what we will tolerate [TS]

00:43:06 ◼   ► and they know that and so that's why [TS]

00:43:08 ◼   ► they're playing his emotional buttons [TS]

00:43:09 ◼   ► you know they're talking about the [TS]

00:43:10 ◼   ► victims and families and Tim's talking [TS]

00:43:12 ◼   ► about kids being you know if we know the [TS]

00:43:14 ◼   ► location your kids this is why this this [TS]

00:43:16 ◼   ► whole thing just makes me so sad it [TS]

00:43:18 ◼   ► really does because I how she's I mean [TS]

00:43:21 ◼   ► then let's just say that there's a read [TS]

00:43:24 ◼   ► that there are reasons I don't usually [TS]

00:43:25 ◼   ► talk about politics you know if you [TS]

00:43:27 ◼   ► think I'm like negative and bitter about [TS]

00:43:29 ◼   ► apple stuff this this is how i feel [TS]

00:43:31 ◼   ► about politics [TS]

00:43:32 ◼   ► I try to avoid as a topic for my own [TS]

00:43:34 ◼   ► happiness insanity [TS]

00:43:36 ◼   ► I just want to make one quick thought [TS]

00:43:38 ◼   ► and then I'd like to hear what John us [TS]

00:43:40 ◼   ► to say about this but as I was watching [TS]

00:43:42 ◼   ► this interview tonight which I think was [TS]

00:43:44 ◼   ► a little bit unfortunate because as you [TS]

00:43:46 ◼   ► had said or one of us said yeah it was [TS]

00:43:48 ◼   ► the same talking points from both sides [TS]

00:43:50 ◼   ► just repeated over and over i feel like [TS]

00:43:52 ◼   ► the entire interview could have been [TS]

00:43:53 ◼   ► like four and a half minutes long but [TS]

00:43:55 ◼   ► anyway I I caught myself sitting there [TS]

00:43:58 ◼   ► listening to this and I thought to [TS]

00:43:59 ◼   ► myself this is why we have Tim Cook you [TS]

00:44:02 ◼   ► know this is why Tim Cook is here is for [TS]

00:44:04 ◼   ► this very moment right now because I [TS]

00:44:07 ◼   ► don't doubt that maybe Steve Jobs [TS]

00:44:09 ◼   ► would've fought at the same way to ms [TS]

00:44:10 ◼   ► but I don't know if you would have done [TS]

00:44:12 ◼   ► as good a job at it and I am so [TS]

00:44:16 ◼   ► unbelievably proud of tim cook and all [TS]

00:44:18 ◼   ► of apple for standing up for what I [TS]

00:44:20 ◼   ► believe to be right and for doing the [TS]

00:44:22 ◼   ► right thing because this is not easy for [TS]

00:44:23 ◼   ► really either side or anyone involved [TS]

00:44:26 ◼   ► but particularly for apple and all the [TS]

00:44:30 ◼   ► credit in the world to Apple as you said [TS]

00:44:31 ◼   ► we have a tendency to to call it like we [TS]

00:44:33 ◼   ► see it and sometimes we see it to be not [TS]

00:44:35 ◼   ► so not so sunny but I I could not be [TS]

00:44:38 ◼   ► more proud of appleton cook than I am [TS]

00:44:39 ◼   ► right now [TS]

00:44:40 ◼   ► John what do you have to say about all [TS]

00:44:41 ◼   ► this I was thinking about how their job [TS]

00:44:44 ◼   ► to handle that interview like at the [TS]

00:44:45 ◼   ► very least he would have I mean Steve [TS]

00:44:47 ◼   ► Jobs has more sort of natural charisma [TS]

00:44:50 ◼   ► that then Tim Cook I I I feel like a lot [TS]

00:44:54 ◼   ► of things when you're watching it if you [TS]

00:44:55 ◼   ► are if you're supportive of apples [TS]

00:44:58 ◼   ► position in this the interviewer asks [TS]

00:45:01 ◼   ► the leading questions to try to you know [TS]

00:45:02 ◼   ► get that get him to say something and [TS]

00:45:05 ◼   ► Tim would just go back to his talking [TS]

00:45:07 ◼   ► points not falling for the trap jobs [TS]

00:45:09 ◼   ► would have said the things that were [TS]

00:45:10 ◼   ► thinking like the sort of you know come [TS]

00:45:13 ◼   ► back at him and you know take take more [TS]

00:45:15 ◼   ► digs at the government and law [TS]

00:45:16 ◼   ► enforcement Orton was always like you [TS]

00:45:18 ◼   ► know we respect lon far as we want to [TS]

00:45:19 ◼   ► work with them you want to work together [TS]

00:45:20 ◼   ► jobs would have been to let the fact [TS]

00:45:23 ◼   ► that he's pissed been you know be clear [TS]

00:45:26 ◼   ► that he's pissed analysis is going unit [TS]

00:45:28 ◼   ► to cook a little bit closer now it's a [TS]

00:45:30 ◼   ► question whether that would have been [TS]

00:45:31 ◼   ► actually better in terms of PR just you [TS]

00:45:33 ◼   ► know it would be more satisfying for [TS]

00:45:35 ◼   ► people who agree with them already would [TS]

00:45:37 ◼   ► have been any more convincing people who [TS]

00:45:38 ◼   ► don't in the court of public opinion I [TS]

00:45:40 ◼   ► don't know [TS]

00:45:40 ◼   ► so anyway that's that's a sideshow one [TS]

00:45:43 ◼   ► thing that Marco said that stuck out to [TS]

00:45:45 ◼   ► me was the idea that this feels worse [TS]

00:45:47 ◼   ► because Apple can technically do this [TS]

00:45:49 ◼   ► and again I don't want a lawyer I don't [TS]

00:45:52 ◼   ► know about the legal consequences but [TS]

00:45:53 ◼   ► when I think about it I think that is [TS]

00:45:55 ◼   ► not relevant at all because of legal the [TS]

00:45:59 ◼   ► question was is there's this two parts [TS]

00:46:01 ◼   ► this one is the but Marco alluded to [TS]

00:46:03 ◼   ► when he said well we better if they made [TS]

00:46:04 ◼   ► a system that Apple couldn't break into [TS]

00:46:06 ◼   ► prison they were just Apple to say well [TS]

00:46:08 ◼   ► you know we can't do anything oh well [TS]

00:46:10 ◼   ► sorry we can't help you like technically [TS]

00:46:12 ◼   ► we can help you there's nothing we could [TS]

00:46:13 ◼   ► do all the money and all the time in the [TS]

00:46:15 ◼   ► world wouldn't solve this for us that [TS]

00:46:18 ◼   ► immediately leads to okay we're just [TS]

00:46:20 ◼   ► going to outlaw cryptography which is [TS]

00:46:21 ◼   ► that it would be in terrible stupid rule [TS]

00:46:23 ◼   ► because you cannot math and you know so [TS]

00:46:26 ◼   ► whatever so that's one end of that but [TS]

00:46:29 ◼   ► that's that's what I think this case is [TS]

00:46:30 ◼   ► about when I think about it is just [TS]

00:46:33 ◼   ► because Apple can do it doesn't mean the [TS]

00:46:34 ◼   ► government can order them to do it like [TS]

00:46:37 ◼   ► the government can't make any one of its [TS]

00:46:41 ◼   ► citizens or corporations or entities or [TS]

00:46:43 ◼   ► whatever do it compel them to do [TS]

00:46:46 ◼   ► something just because they feel like it [TS]

00:46:48 ◼   ► right there has to be established law as [TS]

00:46:50 ◼   ► in when we issue you a search warrant [TS]

00:46:52 ◼   ► you have to let us search right that's [TS]

00:46:54 ◼   ► you know you can't just say you know it [TS]

00:46:56 ◼   ► would be nice family wrote you know a [TS]

00:46:58 ◼   ► custom operating system let's crack it [TS]

00:47:00 ◼   ► into this phone [TS]

00:47:01 ◼   ► yeah that would be nice wouldn't it but [TS]

00:47:02 ◼   ► do you the government have the power to [TS]

00:47:04 ◼   ► compel the corporation to do work for [TS]

00:47:06 ◼   ► you because you think it would be cool [TS]

00:47:07 ◼   ► like that that's why this is a legal [TS]

00:47:09 ◼   ► case like this will be decided in the [TS]

00:47:11 ◼   ► courts in with legislation and so on and [TS]

00:47:12 ◼   ► so forth but the idea like Marco said [TS]

00:47:15 ◼   ► that law enforcement you know they can [TS]

00:47:17 ◼   ► technically do this when we just ask [TS]

00:47:19 ◼   ► them to can we make them do that aren't [TS]

00:47:21 ◼   ► we like in charge here like and the [TS]

00:47:23 ◼   ► answer is no you can't really make them [TS]

00:47:25 ◼   ► and have apple doesn't want to they're [TS]

00:47:26 ◼   ► gonna challenge you and you're going to [TS]

00:47:27 ◼   ► go through the legal system and try to [TS]

00:47:28 ◼   ► figure out whether this is something you [TS]

00:47:29 ◼   ► can even ask them to do so i always [TS]

00:47:32 ◼   ► think it was as the notes here [TS]

00:47:34 ◼   ► cryptography vs conscription can you can [TS]

00:47:37 ◼   ► script a corporation to write software [TS]

00:47:39 ◼   ► on your behalf you are law enforcement [TS]

00:47:41 ◼   ► because you feel like it not based on [TS]

00:47:43 ◼   ► any existing law on the books or any [TS]

00:47:45 ◼   ► legal precedent over just because it's a [TS]

00:47:48 ◼   ► thing that's possible and one of the [TS]

00:47:49 ◼   ► things i think about that [TS]

00:47:50 ◼   ► this is the same thing at all but like [TS]

00:47:51 ◼   ► the idea that individuals and [TS]

00:47:54 ◼   ► corporations can have rights [TS]

00:47:56 ◼   ► the idea that the government can't [TS]

00:47:58 ◼   ► demand that you testify against yourself [TS]

00:48:02 ◼   ► you have the right to remain silent [TS]

00:48:04 ◼   ► they cannot compel you to speak against [TS]

00:48:06 ◼   ► yourself they may ask you you know where [TS]

00:48:08 ◼   ► you were you on the date such and such [TS]

00:48:09 ◼   ► and if they're accusing or something you [TS]

00:48:11 ◼   ► can just not answer them and they can't [TS]

00:48:13 ◼   ► compel you to answer because it is you [TS]

00:48:15 ◼   ► could answer all it's much worse because [TS]

00:48:17 ◼   ► you know you have a voice you could [TS]

00:48:19 ◼   ► answer them if you want to i want your [TS]

00:48:20 ◼   ► answer the question [TS]

00:48:21 ◼   ► they can't compel you to because its [TS]

00:48:22 ◼   ► your right to keep them and again this [TS]

00:48:24 ◼   ► may or may not be speech or whatever but [TS]

00:48:26 ◼   ► the whole idea that someone is capable [TS]

00:48:28 ◼   ► of doing something does not mean well if [TS]

00:48:29 ◼   ► you're capable of doing it [TS]

00:48:31 ◼   ► the government should be able to compel [TS]

00:48:32 ◼   ► you to do it that's it doesn't make any [TS]

00:48:33 ◼   ► sense so that has to be sorted out in [TS]

00:48:35 ◼   ► the law and then conceptually since [TS]

00:48:39 ◼   ► we're late to the story and everyone's [TS]

00:48:40 ◼   ► gone through all the details and we went [TS]

00:48:41 ◼   ► through a lot of them already anyway the [TS]

00:48:44 ◼   ► thing that really boggles my mind about [TS]

00:48:46 ◼   ► this conceptually is like the the short [TS]

00:48:50 ◼   ► view so many people have like people [TS]

00:48:51 ◼   ► think you know people who are on the [TS]

00:48:52 ◼   ► wrong side of this issue as in people [TS]

00:48:54 ◼   ► who don't agree with me right [TS]

00:48:55 ◼   ► I the incredible short view that like [TS]

00:48:58 ◼   ► just big picture like pull back from [TS]

00:49:00 ◼   ► this issue pull back from this one phone [TS]

00:49:02 ◼   ► pull back from details about like how [TS]

00:49:04 ◼   ► it's been since tailor-made to set a [TS]

00:49:06 ◼   ► legal precedent and now you know like [TS]

00:49:08 ◼   ► all the details of the other things want [TS]

00:49:11 ◼   ► to decode stuff on whether you can do it [TS]

00:49:12 ◼   ► with this one phone and think of the [TS]

00:49:13 ◼   ► children and the terrorists victims and [TS]

00:49:15 ◼   ► also the stuff in the details whether [TS]

00:49:17 ◼   ► there's anything on the phone and and [TS]

00:49:18 ◼   ► you know also by the way the code is [TS]

00:49:20 ◼   ► probably 11 or 11 or 12 34 they just try [TS]

00:49:23 ◼   ► this too close and will be unlocked but [TS]

00:49:24 ◼   ► even if they did they would quickly lock [TS]

00:49:26 ◼   ► it again because that's not what this is [TS]

00:49:27 ◼   ► about yeah i mean if also if you're [TS]

00:49:29 ◼   ► talking about like what's most likely [TS]

00:49:30 ◼   ► has nothing on the phone yeah it's me [TS]

00:49:31 ◼   ► way more likely that like that the [TS]

00:49:34 ◼   ► person's work phone that he they had [TS]

00:49:36 ◼   ► personal phones that they destroyed or [TS]

00:49:39 ◼   ► were described it [TS]

00:49:40 ◼   ► yeah it's very it's way more like the [TS]

00:49:41 ◼   ► work phone has nothing useful on it but [TS]

00:49:43 ◼   ► the FBI knows that and they that that's [TS]

00:49:46 ◼   ► why this isn't about that it's about you [TS]

00:49:48 ◼   ► know they they chose this case to [TS]

00:49:51 ◼   ► publicize they chose to publicize it not [TS]

00:49:53 ◼   ► and not do the negotiations and secret [TS]

00:49:56 ◼   ► where Apple Apple requested they chose [TS]

00:49:58 ◼   ► this because they knew that emotionally [TS]

00:50:02 ◼   ► is that like the the will of the people [TS]

00:50:04 ◼   ► would probably be on their side because [TS]

00:50:06 ◼   ► they can play the angles of terrorism [TS]

00:50:08 ◼   ► and victims and everything like all that [TS]

00:50:10 ◼   ► that's what i'm getting at the the will [TS]

00:50:12 ◼   ► of the people all right so i would be [TS]

00:50:14 ◼   ► speaking to the people at this point [TS]

00:50:15 ◼   ► that people who don't agree this is the [TS]

00:50:17 ◼   ► right thing to do just keep pulling back [TS]

00:50:20 ◼   ► from this case from this thing from [TS]

00:50:22 ◼   ► phones from encryption from all the [TS]

00:50:24 ◼   ► details or whatever and just think over [TS]

00:50:26 ◼   ► the last several decades or whatever the [TS]

00:50:29 ◼   ► general trend in American government has [TS]

00:50:31 ◼   ► been people being afraid and looking for [TS]

00:50:36 ◼   ► anyone who promises to make them safer [TS]

00:50:38 ◼   ► and giving up rights to get that imagine [TS]

00:50:41 ◼   ► safety from 9-11 on but even before that [TS]

00:50:43 ◼   ► the whole idea was it if you scare [TS]

00:50:45 ◼   ► enough people and say we can you know [TS]

00:50:48 ◼   ► someone is going to kill you and your [TS]

00:50:49 ◼   ► family unless we can tap all your [TS]

00:50:51 ◼   ► telephone calls and read all your mail [TS]

00:50:53 ◼   ► and all-you-can-eat like whatever it is [TS]

00:50:55 ◼   ► just just a general trend of you put on [TS]

00:50:57 ◼   ► a graph knew you could argue about [TS]

00:50:58 ◼   ► specifics or whatever but there's no [TS]

00:50:59 ◼   ► arguing that the general trend has been [TS]

00:51:01 ◼   ► away from civil liberties and towards [TS]

00:51:04 ◼   ► government has access to more and more [TS]

00:51:06 ◼   ► stuff and that has been motivated [TS]

00:51:08 ◼   ► generally by people being afraid either [TS]

00:51:10 ◼   ► people making them afraid or people who [TS]

00:51:12 ◼   ► generally being afraid of people take [TS]

00:51:13 ◼   ► advantage of that fear to say now we in [TS]

00:51:15 ◼   ► law enforcement can do our job better [TS]

00:51:17 ◼   ► because you're afraid you need to give [TS]

00:51:19 ◼   ► us these rights and time and again but [TS]

00:51:22 ◼   ► law enforcement government proven that [TS]

00:51:23 ◼   ► once they get the right they don't give [TS]

00:51:25 ◼   ► him back the using the ways that they [TS]

00:51:26 ◼   ► didn't say that they said they weren't [TS]

00:51:28 ◼   ► going to use them the abuse them [TS]

00:51:30 ◼   ► there's no repercussions for that and [TS]

00:51:32 ◼   ► it's a ratcheting mechanism but never [TS]

00:51:33 ◼   ► slide the other direction only goes to [TS]

00:51:35 ◼   ► more and more and technology is enabling [TS]

00:51:36 ◼   ► to do this now every individual point [TS]

00:51:39 ◼   ► you can argue with like oh do I agree [TS]

00:51:40 ◼   ► about this and what about phone [TS]

00:51:42 ◼   ► wiretapping what about Snowden or [TS]

00:51:43 ◼   ► whatever you can argue every individual [TS]

00:51:45 ◼   ► point when you put it on a big graph [TS]

00:51:46 ◼   ► this is a massive trend a massive [TS]

00:51:48 ◼   ► long-term trend away from civil [TS]

00:51:50 ◼   ► liberties and towards a loss of [TS]

00:51:53 ◼   ► individual rights right [TS]

00:51:54 ◼   ► specifically when it comes to law [TS]

00:51:56 ◼   ► enforcement surveillance and privacy and [TS]

00:51:59 ◼   ► so even in this individual case you just [TS]

00:52:02 ◼   ► have to like you have to color all of [TS]

00:52:03 ◼   ► your thinking to say is should we just [TS]

00:52:06 ◼   ► continue to play out this thing on these [TS]

00:52:08 ◼   ► individual battles slowly ratcheting our [TS]

00:52:10 ◼   ► way up [TS]

00:52:11 ◼   ► how does this all end like such a long [TS]

00:52:13 ◼   ► slide you have to at some point say [TS]

00:52:15 ◼   ► there's a limit you just can't keep [TS]

00:52:17 ◼   ► asking for more and more and more and [TS]

00:52:19 ◼   ► generations of people living and dying [TS]

00:52:21 ◼   ► and just getting used to what the [TS]

00:52:22 ◼   ► government does until like you just [TS]

00:52:24 ◼   ► can't keep going in that direction [TS]

00:52:25 ◼   ► forever it has to be a pendulum it has [TS]

00:52:27 ◼   ► to be a cycle there has to be a swing [TS]

00:52:29 ◼   ► and at some point you have to start [TS]

00:52:31 ◼   ► swinging in the other direction some [TS]

00:52:32 ◼   ► point the people you know your fear of [TS]

00:52:35 ◼   ► being killed by terrorists has to be [TS]

00:52:36 ◼   ► trumped by the granted much more [TS]

00:52:39 ◼   ► intellectual ideas that are you know the [TS]

00:52:41 ◼   ► country supposedly founded on of you [TS]

00:52:43 ◼   ► know some amount of individual liberty [TS]

00:52:45 ◼   ► and writes I guess that swing back and [TS]

00:52:47 ◼   ► all the other direction like we have [TS]

00:52:49 ◼   ► freedom of speech but we also have you [TS]

00:52:51 ◼   ► know slander laws and you know can't [TS]

00:52:54 ◼   ► yell fire in a crowded theater like it [TS]

00:52:55 ◼   ► just like the basics of civics [TS]

00:52:57 ◼   ► one-on-one that there are extremes and [TS]

00:52:59 ◼   ► we are headed we've been headed in the [TS]

00:53:01 ◼   ► other direction for so long that I just [TS]

00:53:03 ◼   ► think that every problem that touches on [TS]

00:53:04 ◼   ► this you at all has to be viewed in the [TS]

00:53:06 ◼   ► context of the humongous long clear [TS]

00:53:09 ◼   ► unidirectional slide that we've been in [TS]

00:53:11 ◼   ► for so long and so anybody who's for [TS]

00:53:13 ◼   ► this I have to say don't you know don't [TS]

00:53:16 ◼   ► think of this individual issue [TS]

00:53:17 ◼   ► do you agree that this we've been going [TS]

00:53:19 ◼   ► this direction for far too long at what [TS]

00:53:21 ◼   ► point do we need to turn around at what [TS]

00:53:22 ◼   ► point do we need to start swinging the [TS]

00:53:24 ◼   ► other direction [TS]

00:53:25 ◼   ► I think personally we're way past that [TS]

00:53:27 ◼   ► point but even if you don't think we're [TS]

00:53:28 ◼   ► past that point if you're not thinking [TS]

00:53:29 ◼   ► about that point it's just every time [TS]

00:53:31 ◼   ► something comes up that you're afraid of [TS]

00:53:33 ◼   ► or that you need your you know support [TS]

00:53:35 ◼   ► the troops law enforcement is always [TS]

00:53:36 ◼   ► right the the government is our friend [TS]

00:53:38 ◼   ► of all blah [TS]

00:53:39 ◼   ► if every single time something comes up [TS]

00:53:40 ◼   ► you never even occurred to you to look [TS]

00:53:42 ◼   ► at where we're going and how we have to [TS]

00:53:43 ◼   ► swing in the direction and i'm far from [TS]

00:53:45 ◼   ► you know a libertarian individual rights [TS]

00:53:49 ◼   ► not job that I personally i'm far from [TS]

00:53:50 ◼   ► now but I'm just saying like no matter [TS]

00:53:52 ◼   ► where you are if you never if you never [TS]

00:53:54 ◼   ► consider it like this movement this [TS]

00:53:56 ◼   ► graph the suspect then it will never [TS]

00:53:58 ◼   ► occur to adjust it and there's no like [TS]

00:54:00 ◼   ► oh it will be too late like there is no [TS]

00:54:01 ◼   ► too late [TS]

00:54:02 ◼   ► it'll just be the new normal the normal [TS]

00:54:03 ◼   ► the new normal the only thing we'll have [TS]

00:54:05 ◼   ► to compare self-worth is the rest of the [TS]

00:54:07 ◼   ► world that is hopefully slightly more [TS]

00:54:08 ◼   ► saying in these matters lo the UK shows [TS]

00:54:10 ◼   ► maybe not because they've got surround [TS]

00:54:11 ◼   ► everywhere to do things need to [TS]

00:54:14 ◼   ► eventually swing back in the other [TS]

00:54:16 ◼   ► direction and it just seems like a [TS]

00:54:18 ◼   ► anybody who is at this point against [TS]

00:54:20 ◼   ► this thing is showing that they're [TS]

00:54:22 ◼   ► thinking entirely with their their heart [TS]

00:54:25 ◼   ► and their fear and all those things you [TS]

00:54:27 ◼   ► know that do them credit in [TS]

00:54:29 ◼   ► enrolled but when it comes to [TS]

00:54:30 ◼   ► establishing legal precedence and giving [TS]

00:54:32 ◼   ► power to the government to you know [TS]

00:54:34 ◼   ► rights of privacy and against all these [TS]

00:54:36 ◼   ► details like you don't know these [TS]

00:54:37 ◼   ► details about encryption and all like [TS]

00:54:39 ◼   ► it's too esoteric it's too that's why [TS]

00:54:41 ◼   ► it's the perfect case for the [TS]

00:54:42 ◼   ► government's to Tim Cook can't make the [TS]

00:54:43 ◼   ► real case because it's too detailed your [TS]

00:54:45 ◼   ► eyes glaze over you just like but [TS]

00:54:46 ◼   ► terrorists bad give the government what [TS]

00:54:48 ◼   ► they want right that is exactly the same [TS]

00:54:50 ◼   ► thing that's got us do all the crazy [TS]

00:54:52 ◼   ► things you've been doing some line 11 [TS]

00:54:53 ◼   ► and I just feel he can continue to go in [TS]

00:54:55 ◼   ► that direction forever [TS]

00:54:56 ◼   ► everybody should at the very least every [TS]

00:54:59 ◼   ► time they make any argument that they [TS]

00:55:01 ◼   ► should have to explain why not only is [TS]

00:55:03 ◼   ► this the right thing to do in this case [TS]

00:55:04 ◼   ► but i believe that is essential for us [TS]

00:55:07 ◼   ► to ratchet this thing up one more notch [TS]

00:55:08 ◼   ► you know for for the for invading our [TS]

00:55:11 ◼   ► privacy and forgiving law enforcement [TS]

00:55:13 ◼   ► government power and I that is essential [TS]

00:55:14 ◼   ► in this because if anyone says is just [TS]

00:55:16 ◼   ► this one time or just as one thing or [TS]

00:55:18 ◼   ► whatever it's like they have they [TS]

00:55:19 ◼   ► haven't looked at history recent history [TS]

00:55:21 ◼   ► or ancient history or any kind of [TS]

00:55:22 ◼   ► history is not the way it works when [TS]

00:55:24 ◼   ► someone gets power if they don't give it [TS]

00:55:26 ◼   ► up again unless you take it from them [TS]

00:55:27 ◼   ► yeah but honestly I i totally agree [TS]

00:55:31 ◼   ► first of all I did everything you said [TS]

00:55:32 ◼   ► is gold but looking at history and and [TS]

00:55:37 ◼   ► looking at the present in the direction [TS]

00:55:41 ◼   ► and everything I don't think I see a lot [TS]

00:55:43 ◼   ► of evidence that it ever really does [TS]

00:55:45 ◼   ► swing back in the direction [TS]