The Accidental Tech Podcast

00:00:00 ◼   ► the following is the complete list of [TS]

00:00:03 ◼   ► saying states in these United States of [TS]

00:00:06 ◼   ► America that require only a real rear [TS]

00:00:08 ◼   ► license plate Alabama Arizona Arkansas [TS]

00:00:10 ◼   ► Delaware Florida Georgia Indiana Kansas [TS]

00:00:12 ◼   ► Kentucky Louisiana Michigan Mississippi [TS]

00:00:13 ◼   ► New Mexico North Carolina Oklahoma [TS]

00:00:15 ◼   ► Pennsylvania South Carolina Tennessee [TS]

00:00:17 ◼   ► and West Virginia you'll notice that [TS]

00:00:18 ◼   ► very nearby states North Carolina [TS]

00:00:20 ◼   ► Pennsylvania West Virginia all no front [TS]

00:00:24 ◼   ► license plate frame virginia now out of [TS]

00:00:27 ◼   ► curiosity can you think of any other [TS]

00:00:29 ◼   ► criterion for which those would be [TS]

00:00:32 ◼   ► listed as the same States not off the [TS]

00:00:35 ◼   ► top of my head so we should i do some [TS]

00:00:38 ◼   ► follow-up and follow ya keep you I Scott [TS]

00:00:42 ◼   ► I can't believe I just did that I swore [TS]

00:00:44 ◼   ► I'd never do that on a podcast just just [TS]

00:00:46 ◼   ► hated me into it [TS]

00:00:48 ◼   ► I hate everything alright i quit anyway [TS]

00:00:50 ◼   ► I'm so we had some feedback about my [TS]

00:00:52 ◼   ► ipad tale of woe [TS]

00:00:54 ◼   ► we had a lot of private feedback from my [TS]

00:00:56 ◼   ► curly the once ipad hater now King ipad [TS]

00:01:00 ◼   ► evangelizer I'm i would never said I [TS]

00:01:02 ◼   ► would never classified as a hater he was [TS]

00:01:04 ◼   ► more of an ipad in different here and [TS]

00:01:07 ◼   ► that's a word that is made up i don't [TS]

00:01:09 ◼   ► know maybe he was fairly anti pad for a [TS]

00:01:12 ◼   ► while there but anyways he gave me some [TS]

00:01:15 ◼   ► feedback they basically said i didn't [TS]

00:01:16 ◼   ► know what i was doing and that's the [TS]

00:01:17 ◼   ► problem which I believe I admitted a lot [TS]

00:01:20 ◼   ► of people basically said the same thing [TS]

00:01:22 ◼   ► and the point you know I was trying to [TS]

00:01:23 ◼   ► make was hey you know all this stuff [TS]

00:01:25 ◼   ► comes right out of the box [TS]

00:01:26 ◼   ► I know s10 and it is not on the ipad i [TS]

00:01:29 ◼   ► accept a lot of people wrote in to say [TS]

00:01:31 ◼   ► that you can in fact do a signature on a [TS]

00:01:37 ◼   ► PDF on an iOS device and apparently [TS]

00:01:40 ◼   ► there's a toolbox which to me looks like [TS]

00:01:42 ◼   ► a briefcase icon and within there is the [TS]

00:01:46 ◼   ► annotations and markup and whatnot and [TS]

00:01:48 ◼   ► within their you can do a signature i [TS]

00:01:50 ◼   ► have not had the chance to try this [TS]

00:01:51 ◼   ► myself but I had plenty of people tell [TS]

00:01:54 ◼   ► me about this so I'm taking it as fact [TS]

00:01:56 ◼   ► that is the case so that is just a [TS]

00:01:59 ◼   ► little bit of follow-up you can indeed [TS]

00:02:00 ◼   ► do the signature on an iOS device did [TS]

00:02:03 ◼   ► you mistake the briefcase icon for the [TS]

00:02:05 ◼   ► windows 95 my briefcase he used you say [TS]

00:02:09 ◼   ► that jokingly but I was a heavy [TS]

00:02:10 ◼   ► briefcases our way back and a [TS]

00:02:12 ◼   ► because that was about the best way in [TS]

00:02:14 ◼   ► the windows world to do kind of like a [TS]

00:02:16 ◼   ► poor man's rsync between your laptop in [TS]

00:02:19 ◼   ► your desktop which is what i was doing [TS]

00:02:20 ◼   ► toward the end of college you know it [TS]

00:02:22 ◼   ► was kind of like the it was like the the [TS]

00:02:24 ◼   ► floppy disk stage of evolution towards [TS]

00:02:26 ◼   ► the dropbox right that was also kind of [TS]

00:02:28 ◼   ► the hangover of the the desktop metaphor [TS]

00:02:30 ◼   ► they did the drunken orgy that was the [TS]

00:02:34 ◼   ► desktop metaphor like Oh folders there [TS]

00:02:37 ◼   ► just like folders that go on file [TS]

00:02:38 ◼   ► cabinets and there's a little trash can [TS]

00:02:40 ◼   ► and so on and so forth and people would [TS]

00:02:41 ◼   ► latch onto that idea that's why the [TS]

00:02:44 ◼   ► Macintosh is easier to use because it [TS]

00:02:46 ◼   ► has all these analogies to the real [TS]

00:02:47 ◼   ► world and so people what else is in [TS]

00:02:50 ◼   ► office like carpeting and it's like it's [TS]

00:02:52 ◼   ► like this windows we already got those [TS]

00:02:54 ◼   ► my carpeting you're exactly you know and [TS]

00:02:57 ◼   ► and that with the recycle recycle bin [TS]

00:03:00 ◼   ► because it's not like trash because [TS]

00:03:01 ◼   ► we're trendy than that and i guess like [TS]

00:03:03 ◼   ► a blotter maybe I mean magic cap one on [TS]

00:03:05 ◼   ► whole hog that like living rooms and [TS]

00:03:06 ◼   ► ends and operations like briefcase [TS]

00:03:08 ◼   ► briefcase i know briefcase and so you [TS]

00:03:10 ◼   ► got a briefcase and windows and but what [TS]

00:03:12 ◼   ► about bob bob is after you go nuts and [TS]

00:03:16 ◼   ► huh [TS]

00:03:17 ◼   ► and this is the vision divisions you see [TS]

00:03:18 ◼   ► in your head bob was like the jumping [TS]

00:03:21 ◼   ► over the shark and doing the fridge of [TS]

00:03:23 ◼   ► that metaphor is Magic app you should [TS]

00:03:25 ◼   ► look at Magic camp look like it was very [TS]

00:03:27 ◼   ► similar in terms of like making rooms of [TS]

00:03:28 ◼   ► the house it became like maniac mansion [TS]

00:03:30 ◼   ► it was like you know Sierra adventure [TS]

00:03:32 ◼   ► where you're going room to room and you [TS]

00:03:34 ◼   ► have these little anyway briefcase was [TS]

00:03:36 ◼   ► one of them and Apple itself to the same [TS]

00:03:38 ◼   ► type of thing where they got distracted [TS]

00:03:40 ◼   ► for a bit and thought that what made [TS]

00:03:42 ◼   ► computers easy-to-use was specifically [TS]

00:03:44 ◼   ► the connections with your world things [TS]

00:03:47 ◼   ► and not all the other stuff that goes [TS]

00:03:48 ◼   ► along with it now we have everything [TS]

00:03:50 ◼   ► flat never would happen it's got fourth [TS]

00:03:53 ◼   ► was still alive [TS]

00:03:54 ◼   ► that's true we still don't have a good [TS]

00:03:56 ◼   ► alternative Save icon so and actually [TS]

00:03:58 ◼   ► can continue guys a big secret I've been [TS]

00:04:00 ◼   ► holding this in all these years my [TS]

00:04:02 ◼   ► computer at the time was not good enough [TS]

00:04:04 ◼   ► to run it but there was one because I i [TS]

00:04:06 ◼   ► basically in my pc growing up era I [TS]

00:04:09 ◼   ► spent a lot more time everybody else did [TS]

00:04:11 ◼   ► on Windows 3.1 I did not go to 95 i was [TS]

00:04:13 ◼   ► using 3.1 until nineteen ninety-eight I [TS]

00:04:15 ◼   ► went straight 98 the there was a brief [TS]

00:04:18 ◼   ► time where I went to a friend's house [TS]

00:04:19 ◼   ► and I saw microsoft bobbin on their [TS]

00:04:21 ◼   ► pentium computer because it wouldn't run [TS]

00:04:23 ◼   ► mine [TS]

00:04:24 ◼   ► and I really thought it was the coolest [TS]

00:04:25 ◼   ► thing I've ever seen that is a bold bold [TS]

00:04:29 ◼   ► confession [TS]

00:04:30 ◼   ► yeah I don't really remember it when i [TS]

00:04:32 ◼   ► was around I was all over windows during [TS]

00:04:34 ◼   ► this time but I don't really remember [TS]

00:04:35 ◼   ► Bob very well at all i don't know if i [TS]

00:04:37 ◼   ► ever saw or maybe I just blocked it from [TS]

00:04:39 ◼   ► my memory but i don't remember it [TS]

00:04:43 ◼   ► I mean it was just it was like a it was [TS]

00:04:44 ◼   ► just like a shell that you would launch [TS]

00:04:46 ◼   ► from window they didn't replace that the [TS]

00:04:48 ◼   ► shell it was like a sub it was like a [TS]

00:04:49 ◼   ► giant app and you would like do things [TS]

00:04:51 ◼   ► inside of Bob and it was so incredibly [TS]

00:04:54 ◼   ► slow and any of this was this was during [TS]

00:04:55 ◼   ► like that the super dark era of of [TS]

00:04:58 ◼   ► computing where the hard drives were all [TS]

00:05:00 ◼   ► super slow and grinding constantly [TS]

00:05:02 ◼   ► because there was not enough for him to [TS]

00:05:03 ◼   ► do anything and so it was that this was [TS]

00:05:06 ◼   ► like the dark likely mid to late [TS]

00:05:08 ◼   ► nineties in computing we're just [TS]

00:05:10 ◼   ► everything just the entire side of [TS]

00:05:12 ◼   ► computing for that entire area was hard [TS]

00:05:14 ◼   ► drive grinding noises you guys both [TS]

00:05:16 ◼   ► minus the floppy disk grinding error of [TS]

00:05:19 ◼   ► computers where you could tell what your [TS]

00:05:20 ◼   ► computer is doing by the particular [TS]

00:05:21 ◼   ► tones your floppy drive know you say [TS]

00:05:24 ◼   ► that but I was definitely rocking both [TS]

00:05:26 ◼   ► the actual floppy floppy what is that [TS]

00:05:29 ◼   ► five and a quarter i always get this [TS]

00:05:30 ◼   ► backwards yes i'm a quarter final [TS]

00:05:32 ◼   ► quarter three-and-a-half so yes Ida Ida [TS]

00:05:34 ◼   ► five and a quarter floppy drive in 88 [TS]

00:05:38 ◼   ► that my dad had used years prior and was [TS]

00:05:42 ◼   ► that I'd set up in my room and I [TS]

00:05:43 ◼   ► remember I thought I was awesome because [TS]

00:05:45 ◼   ► it had a 10 meg hard drive in and at the [TS]

00:05:47 ◼   ► time that was effectively infinite space [TS]

00:05:50 ◼   ► like you'd you couldn't feel it if you [TS]

00:05:52 ◼   ► wanted to but yeah I've definitely heard [TS]

00:05:55 ◼   ► that teaching is constantly on now all [TS]

00:05:59 ◼   ► these kids these days that with their [TS]

00:06:00 ◼   ► windows pcs they have the drive letters [TS]

00:06:02 ◼   ► that start with C and they have no idea [TS]

00:06:03 ◼   ► why they don't have an A&B drive but [TS]

00:06:05 ◼   ► they should really be as a weeping over [TS]

00:06:06 ◼   ► the fact that they still have drive [TS]

00:06:08 ◼   ► letters [TS]

00:06:08 ◼   ► there's that was hilarious but you got a [TS]

00:06:11 ◼   ► grade on a curve with Windows that [TS]

00:06:13 ◼   ► that's also true i believe this same [TS]

00:06:15 ◼   ► technique hard drive 88 had a the a [TS]

00:06:18 ◼   ► drive i believe is the five and a [TS]

00:06:19 ◼   ► quarter almost got that wrong five and a [TS]

00:06:21 ◼   ► quarter inch stride and i believe the be [TS]

00:06:23 ◼   ► drive was a three-and-a-half inch [TS]

00:06:25 ◼   ► low-density floppy so that was what like [TS]

00:06:28 ◼   ► 750 k or something like that and that [TS]

00:06:30 ◼   ► was external i should add which was [TS]

00:06:32 ◼   ► really cool probably scuzzy but anyway [TS]

00:06:35 ◼   ► the only other thing I want to [TS]

00:06:37 ◼   ► brings background I to say about the [TS]

00:06:39 ◼   ► ipad is a lot of people wrote to say hey [TS]

00:06:41 ◼   ► you idiot the ipad has a camera and yes [TS]

00:06:43 ◼   ► that's weird why didn't you just use the [TS]

00:06:45 ◼   ► camera to take a picture of the [TS]

00:06:46 ◼   ► documents and use any one of these 350 [TS]

00:06:48 ◼   ► different apps that that people [TS]

00:06:50 ◼   ► recommended in order to scan and I'm [TS]

00:06:52 ◼   ► doing mega air quotes here scam the PDF [TS]

00:06:54 ◼   ► and that is a perfectly valid answer and [TS]

00:06:58 ◼   ► i have one of those apps on my phone and [TS]

00:06:59 ◼   ► on my iPad and it does work surprisingly [TS]

00:07:01 ◼   ► well but why on earth would I do that [TS]

00:07:04 ◼   ► when I had a full-on probably [TS]

00:07:07 ◼   ► multi-thousand dollar scanning machine [TS]

00:07:09 ◼   ► one of those multifunction printers in [TS]

00:07:12 ◼   ► the office right there ready and waiting [TS]

00:07:13 ◼   ► the fidelity of that scam was going to [TS]

00:07:15 ◼   ► be far superior to any yo software [TS]

00:07:18 ◼   ► flattened picture of a piece of paper [TS]

00:07:20 ◼   ► plus there's quite a bit that I was [TS]

00:07:21 ◼   ► scanning and want to spend all that time [TS]

00:07:23 ◼   ► doing all that instead I spent all that [TS]

00:07:25 ◼   ► time trying to get it all in the dropbox [TS]

00:07:26 ◼   ► there that's better [TS]

00:07:29 ◼   ► yeah that's totally better so nice i [TS]

00:07:31 ◼   ► just wanted to follow up on that the [TS]

00:07:33 ◼   ► other thing I wanted to note is we were [TS]

00:07:35 ◼   ► talking last week about bluetooth [TS]

00:07:37 ◼   ► headphones and Bluetooth latency and [TS]

00:07:40 ◼   ► some other miscellaneous things and by [TS]

00:07:43 ◼   ► accident today i noticed something [TS]

00:07:45 ◼   ► completely striking and to back up just [TS]

00:07:47 ◼   ► a half-step you've talked Marco and [TS]

00:07:50 ◼   ► we've talked and I've talked in the past [TS]

00:07:51 ◼   ► about how I don't really understand why [TS]

00:07:54 ◼   ► everyone gets their they're all up in [TS]

00:07:58 ◼   ► arms about bluetooth latency especially [TS]

00:08:00 ◼   ► when watching video because i never see [TS]

00:08:02 ◼   ► this and as well as we discussed last [TS]

00:08:04 ◼   ► episode i use these like fairly well [TS]

00:08:07 ◼   ► really cheap in fairly crappy bluetooth [TS]

00:08:09 ◼   ► headphones that I love don't get me [TS]

00:08:11 ◼   ► wrong but they're unremarkable in every [TS]

00:08:13 ◼   ► measurable way and i never get this [TS]

00:08:15 ◼   ► video agency that everyone else seems to [TS]

00:08:18 ◼   ► get well today John and tweeted a link [TS]

00:08:21 ◼   ► to a video with one of the dudes from [TS]

00:08:23 ◼   ► the wire punk window appears so he [TS]

00:08:27 ◼   ► tweeted a link geometry to link up that [TS]

00:08:28 ◼   ► was 10 psi believe you're right Marco [TS]

00:08:30 ◼   ► talking about it was actually very [TS]

00:08:32 ◼   ► interesting talking about being stopped [TS]

00:08:33 ◼   ► in real life by police officer and I was [TS]

00:08:36 ◼   ► on my work computer and I had click the [TS]

00:08:39 ◼   ► link in my work computer because we're [TS]

00:08:42 ◼   ► all in on Google Apps chrome is my [TS]

00:08:44 ◼   ► default browser and this is the first [TS]

00:08:45 ◼   ► time that's ever been the case and so I [TS]

00:08:48 ◼   ► started watching this video and chrome [TS]

00:08:49 ◼   ► and I was like oh my [TS]

00:08:51 ◼   ► goodness this latency is ridiculous it's [TS]

00:08:54 ◼   ► terrible [TS]

00:08:55 ◼   ► we decided yep that's never ever [TS]

00:08:58 ◼   ► happened to me before ever [TS]

00:09:01 ◼   ► so I copy the link dropped in safari [TS]

00:09:04 ◼   ► perfect no problems whatsoever [TS]

00:09:06 ◼   ► this is a youtube video i don't know [TS]

00:09:10 ◼   ► what it is but miles em wrote in when I [TS]

00:09:12 ◼   ► tweet tweet about this and said so far [TS]

00:09:14 ◼   ► use the system API to play video but [TS]

00:09:16 ◼   ► chrome reimplement everything itself [TS]

00:09:18 ◼   ► down to the media decoders I have no [TS]

00:09:20 ◼   ► idea if that's true or not but i can [TS]

00:09:23 ◼   ► tell you that anecdotally based on one [TS]

00:09:25 ◼   ► video I watched during the day today [TS]

00:09:27 ◼   ► it certainly seemed like that very well [TS]

00:09:29 ◼   ► may be the case and I was stunned by the [TS]

00:09:32 ◼   ► fact that it happened be how bad it was [TS]

00:09:33 ◼   ► and so I wonder if all these people that [TS]

00:09:35 ◼   ► are whining and moaning about this [TS]

00:09:37 ◼   ► bluetooth latency are just chrome users [TS]

00:09:39 ◼   ► and because of that they they see this [TS]

00:09:43 ◼   ► terrible agency so they're all thinking [TS]

00:09:44 ◼   ► man i'm crazy how could I not see this [TS]

00:09:46 ◼   ► as at the same time thinking man they [TS]

00:09:48 ◼   ► are crazy [TS]

00:09:49 ◼   ► why are they seeing this and it turns [TS]

00:09:51 ◼   ► out it's just another reason why you [TS]

00:09:52 ◼   ► shouldn't be using chrome turns out [TS]

00:09:53 ◼   ► everyone is crazy [TS]

00:09:54 ◼   ► no i mean so that their that you're [TS]

00:09:56 ◼   ► exactly right that basically that did [TS]

00:09:58 ◼   ► that there is Bluetooth latency on any [TS]

00:10:01 ◼   ► Bluetooth device there is latency not [TS]

00:10:03 ◼   ► about his airplane airplane is fixed at [TS]

00:10:04 ◼   ► two seconds regardless and that seems [TS]

00:10:06 ◼   ► like forever when trying something [TS]

00:10:07 ◼   ► happen [TS]

00:10:07 ◼   ► bluetooth is way shorter than that can [TS]

00:10:09 ◼   ► be used in substantially less than a [TS]

00:10:10 ◼   ► second but there is still noticeable [TS]

00:10:12 ◼   ► agency and humans can take latency in [TS]

00:10:14 ◼   ► video where the audio isn't synched up [TS]

00:10:16 ◼   ► properly to like what like watching [TS]

00:10:18 ◼   ► people's mouths move and they talk we [TS]

00:10:20 ◼   ► can detect very very small isolated and [TS]

00:10:21 ◼   ► just looks wrong to us so it has to be [TS]

00:10:23 ◼   ► perfectly when you're watching people [TS]

00:10:25 ◼   ► speak there can't be any any weird [TS]

00:10:27 ◼   ► latency between the audio/video Apple [TS]

00:10:29 ◼   ► knows this so they're in their system [TS]

00:10:31 ◼   ► frameworks for iOS and OS 10 most [TS]

00:10:34 ◼   ► bluetooth headphones they they have some [TS]

00:10:36 ◼   ► way I don't know the details of how [TS]

00:10:38 ◼   ► should they have some way of [TS]

00:10:39 ◼   ► establishing with the headset what the [TS]

00:10:41 ◼   ► latency is and then compensating for it [TS]

00:10:43 ◼   ► the downside of this first of all you [TS]

00:10:45 ◼   ► just found one which is that it only [TS]

00:10:47 ◼   ► works in things that use the AV [TS]

00:10:48 ◼   ► frameworks no downside is that not every [TS]

00:10:51 ◼   ► headphone supports this and so like I've [TS]

00:10:53 ◼   ► tested probably five or six sensible [TS]

00:10:55 ◼   ► have fun now and only I think two of [TS]

00:10:57 ◼   ► them actually properly didn't have any [TS]

00:11:00 ◼   ► latency and the the rest all had on his [TS]

00:11:03 ◼   ► rival agency even when you [TS]

00:11:04 ◼   ► in the system video player even on ios4 [TS]

00:11:07 ◼   ► you think that would be most commonly [TS]

00:11:08 ◼   ► tested and the other problem is games [TS]

00:11:12 ◼   ► you know video can account for this [TS]

00:11:15 ◼   ► game's almost always can't and don't and [TS]

00:11:19 ◼   ► so it works fine if you are using your [TS]

00:11:21 ◼   ► headphones to watch a video in the [TS]

00:11:24 ◼   ► built-in system API player in something [TS]

00:11:26 ◼   ► that works fine that's probably all [TS]

00:11:28 ◼   ► you've ever done right [TS]

00:11:29 ◼   ► yeah I mean I think so I I can't imagine [TS]

00:11:32 ◼   ► a time other than when i was in chrome [TS]

00:11:34 ◼   ► that I wasn't using just the system [TS]

00:11:35 ◼   ► frameworks right but if it's especially [TS]

00:11:38 ◼   ► problem if you're trying to play games [TS]

00:11:39 ◼   ► with bluetooth headphones you base it's [TS]

00:11:42 ◼   ► basically impossible you basically can't [TS]

00:11:44 ◼   ► unless you are just not listening to the [TS]

00:11:45 ◼   ► game audio and listen to music or [TS]

00:11:47 ◼   ► something that just always crazy how [TS]

00:11:49 ◼   ► know John any thoughts on this [TS]

00:11:50 ◼   ► I just think that I hope that in the [TS]

00:11:53 ◼   ► future they will keep improving these [TS]

00:11:55 ◼   ► wireless audio api is to eliminate these [TS]

00:11:58 ◼   ► problems because it's kind of a shame [TS]

00:12:00 ◼   ► that it requires the deep integration of [TS]

00:12:02 ◼   ► the system API is with all this [TS]

00:12:03 ◼   ► compensation getting everything get it [TS]

00:12:05 ◼   ► crunk should be able to do it correctly [TS]

00:12:06 ◼   ► in other words it shouldn't be such a [TS]

00:12:09 ◼   ► problem so I by I don't know what the [TS]

00:12:11 ◼   ► what the limitations are that are [TS]

00:12:13 ◼   ► requiring this but I no bluetooth [TS]

00:12:14 ◼   ► continues to evolve and I think it needs [TS]

00:12:16 ◼   ► to continue to evolve because it's [TS]

00:12:17 ◼   ► obviously not quite good enough yet [TS]

00:12:19 ◼   ► well and you know there's there's to [TS]

00:12:22 ◼   ► some degree there's always going to be [TS]

00:12:23 ◼   ► some latency inherent in a digital [TS]

00:12:26 ◼   ► signal being transmitted being accepted [TS]

00:12:29 ◼   ► over wireless network being decoded from [TS]

00:12:31 ◼   ► digital to analog in certain no chunks [TS]

00:12:33 ◼   ► of blocks and as always you know with [TS]

00:12:36 ◼   ► with audio latency you're always having [TS]

00:12:38 ◼   ► this this trade-off if you make the [TS]

00:12:39 ◼   ► latency really short [TS]

00:12:40 ◼   ► that means you have really short buffers [TS]

00:12:42 ◼   ► on all the sides which means it becomes [TS]

00:12:43 ◼   ► extremely sensitive to cutting out with [TS]

00:12:46 ◼   ► any kind of reception drop or or flaky [TS]

00:12:49 ◼   ► signal or anything so if you have very [TS]

00:12:51 ◼   ► very low latency it is very fragile or [TS]

00:12:54 ◼   ► if you is if you increase the latency [TS]

00:12:55 ◼   ► then you have more tolerance for [TS]

00:12:58 ◼   ► weirdness in the signal you can like [TS]

00:12:59 ◼   ► back off a little bit and burst the data [TS]

00:13:01 ◼   ► that you missed before the latency has [TS]

00:13:03 ◼   ► caught up just like the old auntie skip [TS]

00:13:05 ◼   ► things and investment you have you ever [TS]

00:13:07 ◼   ► had with the hoods non same thing [TS]

00:13:09 ◼   ► there's all these trade-offs and it just [TS]

00:13:12 ◼   ► might not be worth it if most people are [TS]

00:13:14 ◼   ► fine most of the time or if the or you [TS]

00:13:16 ◼   ► know if I [TS]

00:13:17 ◼   ► which often happens often happens in the [TS]

00:13:19 ◼   ► case with technological progress if the [TS]

00:13:21 ◼   ► if the new way of doing things [TS]

00:13:23 ◼   ► does have shortcomings and downsides [TS]

00:13:25 ◼   ► that people are just ok with because the [TS]

00:13:27 ◼   ► upside make it worth it [TS]

00:13:28 ◼   ► like everyone might just decide you know [TS]

00:13:30 ◼   ► what I'm fine with just not having [TS]

00:13:32 ◼   ► synced up audio when playing games while [TS]

00:13:35 ◼   ► wearing headphones like people might [TS]

00:13:36 ◼   ► just decide that because it's worth it [TS]

00:13:38 ◼   ► to have all the other benefits of [TS]

00:13:38 ◼   ► wireless headphones so I would [TS]

00:13:40 ◼   ► necessarily consider this problem [TS]

00:13:41 ◼   ► something that will be solved and and [TS]

00:13:44 ◼   ► we'll be starting soon you know don't [TS]

00:13:47 ◼   ► worry because apples hard real-time [TS]

00:13:48 ◼   ► operating systems are working on for the [TS]

00:13:49 ◼   ► car will solve all these problems [TS]

00:13:50 ◼   ► because then you won't have any [TS]

00:13:51 ◼   ► underflow problems on your buffers [TS]

00:13:52 ◼   ► because you've got time slice guarantees [TS]

00:13:54 ◼   ► and on the that'll solve all these [TS]

00:13:56 ◼   ► problems [TS]

00:13:57 ◼   ► I mean people always talk about I i I'm [TS]

00:13:58 ◼   ► saying this is a joke by the way but [TS]

00:14:00 ◼   ► people do talk a lot about the [TS]

00:14:01 ◼   ► theoretical you know the the real time [TS]

00:14:05 ◼   ► requirements of any sort of software [TS]

00:14:07 ◼   ► that Apple might be doing in the car and [TS]

00:14:09 ◼   ► I redheads have a hard time believing [TS]

00:14:11 ◼   ► that any software part of the car system [TS]

00:14:16 ◼   ► like it in other words i imagine that [TS]

00:14:19 ◼   ► Apple's going to do the part of the car [TS]

00:14:20 ◼   ► that you would you know but the software [TS]

00:14:22 ◼   ► that you see on the screen in the car [TS]

00:14:24 ◼   ► that you interact with but I always [TS]

00:14:25 ◼   ► imagined that the internal things that [TS]

00:14:27 ◼   ► deal with like engine control computers [TS]

00:14:29 ◼   ► will have absolutely no lineage or [TS]

00:14:32 ◼   ► connection to any existing Apple [TS]

00:14:33 ◼   ► software code base like that it'll just [TS]

00:14:35 ◼   ► be an embedded system that it won't be [TS]

00:14:38 ◼   ► related to iOS that none of that stuff [TS]

00:14:40 ◼   ► will come to iOS and other stuff from [TS]

00:14:41 ◼   ► iOS go to it there will be an iOS like [TS]

00:14:43 ◼   ► thing for front-end doesn't mean they [TS]

00:14:45 ◼   ► ever make are you know the thing that [TS]

00:14:46 ◼   ► runs all the dashboard and a lot of [TS]

00:14:48 ◼   ► stuff but the part that runs the engine [TS]

00:14:49 ◼   ► computer and any other stuff I can't [TS]

00:14:51 ◼   ► imagine that having any connection with [TS]

00:14:54 ◼   ► the existing basically with Darwin with [TS]

00:14:57 ◼   ► existing a code basement one and we've [TS]

00:14:59 ◼   ► we've heard very early and very you know [TS]

00:15:02 ◼   ► unreliable but still rumblings that [TS]

00:15:05 ◼   ► indicated that's exactly what they're [TS]

00:15:06 ◼   ► doing that that they are working on a [TS]

00:15:08 ◼   ► new kernel and a new OS at that might [TS]

00:15:12 ◼   ► possibly use swift for everything [TS]

00:15:14 ◼   ► because it's you know that's kind of one [TS]

00:15:16 ◼   ► of the reasons why Swift is so safe and [TS]

00:15:17 ◼   ► everything like that but that could [TS]

00:15:19 ◼   ► still be for the dashboard control like [TS]

00:15:20 ◼   ► I'm saying for you know for the other [TS]

00:15:22 ◼   ► preferred the things that have to be [TS]

00:15:23 ◼   ► real time oh yeah it because they don't [TS]

00:15:25 ◼   ► you know the the Darwin colonel is not a [TS]

00:15:27 ◼   ► real [TS]

00:15:27 ◼   ► Colonel where you can guarantee i mean [TS]

00:15:29 ◼   ► they know they have the stuff for trying [TS]

00:15:31 ◼   ► to guarantee time slices for audio and [TS]

00:15:33 ◼   ► video or whatever but it's not like hard [TS]

00:15:34 ◼   ► real-time like things you put on like [TS]

00:15:36 ◼   ► spacecraft to go to Mars where this [TS]

00:15:39 ◼   ► absolutely positively has to happen it's [TS]

00:15:41 ◼   ► just it's very tightly constrained you [TS]

00:15:42 ◼   ► know embedded operating system [TS]

00:15:43 ◼   ► environment was that one really popular [TS]

00:15:45 ◼   ► one when river systems or something I [TS]

00:15:48 ◼   ► don't know the ones on all the [TS]

00:15:48 ◼   ► spacecraft and satellites and other [TS]

00:15:50 ◼   ► stuff like that that is a different [TS]

00:15:51 ◼   ► problem domain and I see no reason that [TS]

00:15:53 ◼   ► apple would need to make a single OS [TS]

00:15:55 ◼   ► that spans because you never see the [TS]

00:15:56 ◼   ► real-time operating system it just runs [TS]

00:15:58 ◼   ► the machinery under the covers and [TS]

00:15:59 ◼   ► apples free to make a swift from top to [TS]

00:16:02 ◼   ► bottom cool UI thing for all the you [TS]

00:16:05 ◼   ► know climate-controlled dashboard [TS]

00:16:07 ◼   ► applications audio system all that other [TS]

00:16:08 ◼   ► stuff which could still also be entirely [TS]

00:16:10 ◼   ► new code base but I still feel like it [TS]

00:16:14 ◼   ► that doesn't even need to be real time [TS]

00:16:15 ◼   ► because it just controls the sort of an [TS]

00:16:17 ◼   ► essential functions if its self-driving [TS]

00:16:18 ◼   ► then I don't really know what the hell's [TS]

00:16:20 ◼   ► going on our first sponsor this week is [TS]

00:16:24 ◼   ► backblaze go to backblaze dot-com / ATP [TS]

00:16:27 ◼   ► for the best online backup I've ever [TS]

00:16:29 ◼   ► seen [TS]

00:16:30 ◼   ► I've been back with a back plz customer [TS]

00:16:32 ◼   ► for I don't know three four years now [TS]

00:16:34 ◼   ► it's been awhile since this was before [TS]

00:16:36 ◼   ► the sponsored our shows and because I [TS]

00:16:38 ◼   ► just I did the research i tried a few [TS]

00:16:40 ◼   ► online backup services out there and [TS]

00:16:43 ◼   ► back plays with my favorite by far [TS]

00:16:44 ◼   ► simple as that so they have over a [TS]

00:16:47 ◼   ► hundred and fifty petabytes of data [TS]

00:16:49 ◼   ► backed up this isn't all for me although [TS]

00:16:51 ◼   ► a lot of it is but not all hundred [TS]

00:16:53 ◼   ► petabytes of our mind they had you know [TS]

00:16:55 ◼   ► anybody can do this they have over 10 [TS]

00:16:58 ◼   ► billion files that have been restored to [TS]

00:17:00 ◼   ► their customers so like they've backed [TS]

00:17:02 ◼   ► up way more than 10 million files [TS]

00:17:03 ◼   ► they've restored 10 million files for [TS]

00:17:05 ◼   ► their customers all this data that they [TS]

00:17:07 ◼   ► keep up in their cloud is not in your [TS]

00:17:10 ◼   ► office not in your home so that any kind [TS]

00:17:13 ◼   ► of environmental problem that affects [TS]

00:17:14 ◼   ► all the computers in your office or all [TS]

00:17:16 ◼   ► the computers in your home things like [TS]

00:17:18 ◼   ► you know electrical problems fires [TS]

00:17:20 ◼   ► floods theft if you are back plays [TS]

00:17:23 ◼   ► customer you know that your data is [TS]

00:17:25 ◼   ► still there is back place still has your [TS]

00:17:27 ◼   ► data and you can get it back it's it's a [TS]

00:17:29 ◼   ► level of peace of mind [TS]

00:17:31 ◼   ► backblaze saves your butt in that case [TS]

00:17:33 ◼   ► it really does it is great it is founded [TS]

00:17:34 ◼   ► by X Apple engineers they respect the [TS]

00:17:36 ◼   ► mac plus they work on windows to as far [TS]

00:17:38 ◼   ► as i know i don't ride but I'm sure yet [TS]

00:17:40 ◼   ► says different [TS]

00:17:41 ◼   ► on your mac and pc so they have a [TS]

00:17:43 ◼   ► windows up to it if you run that way you [TS]

00:17:45 ◼   ► can put on your c drive but now you're a [TS]

00:17:47 ◼   ► or b drives you don't have those anymore [TS]

00:17:48 ◼   ► a bad place is really easy no add-ons no [TS]

00:17:51 ◼   ► gimmicks no additional charges five [TS]

00:17:53 ◼   ► bucks per month for unlimited space on [TS]

00:17:57 ◼   ► throttled speeds everything you need [TS]

00:17:59 ◼   ► no add-ons no gimmicks five bucks a [TS]

00:18:01 ◼   ► month per computer at backblaze [TS]

00:18:03 ◼   ► backblaze calm / ATP you need online [TS]

00:18:06 ◼   ► backup and if you're going to get online [TS]

00:18:08 ◼   ► backup this is the one I recommend [TS]

00:18:09 ◼   ► thanks a lot of bad place for sponsoring [TS]

00:18:10 ◼   ► our show so back places better the news [TS]

00:18:13 ◼   ► lately and not just because they sponsor [TS]

00:18:15 ◼   ► this awesome program but because they [TS]

00:18:18 ◼   ► had a running with Adobe yes this is we [TS]

00:18:21 ◼   ► all have we all had a run-in with Adobe [TS]

00:18:23 ◼   ► sometimes that happens [TS]

00:18:25 ◼   ► whoops so I do not have creative cloud [TS]

00:18:28 ◼   ► so just one of you want to fill fill me [TS]

00:18:30 ◼   ► and fill everyone in on what happened i [TS]

00:18:33 ◼   ► just didn't happen to me either [TS]

00:18:34 ◼   ► thankfully but i do have well here's the [TS]

00:18:37 ◼   ► thing i have Photoshop cs6 which is the [TS]

00:18:39 ◼   ► the last pre creative crowd cloud [TS]

00:18:42 ◼   ► version but for reasons all I know why [TS]

00:18:45 ◼   ► I'm saying why does this always systems [TS]

00:18:47 ◼   ► anyway even though i have cs6 i still [TS]

00:18:49 ◼   ► have the creative cloud icon in the menu [TS]

00:18:51 ◼   ► bar because i think i downloaded like a [TS]

00:18:53 ◼   ► trial illustrator I might have paid for [TS]

00:18:54 ◼   ► illustrator for a month like illustrator [TS]

00:18:56 ◼   ► CC like the first version anyway once [TS]

00:18:59 ◼   ► again because on your system has this [TS]

00:19:00 ◼   ► creative cloud menu thing which like [TS]

00:19:02 ◼   ► tries to update your applications for [TS]

00:19:03 ◼   ► you and do other crap like that it's the [TS]

00:19:05 ◼   ► worst [TS]

00:19:06 ◼   ► yeah and I'm it launches on login and [TS]

00:19:08 ◼   ► you try to get rid of it and comes back [TS]

00:19:10 ◼   ► he just wanna quit like Steam yeah but [TS]

00:19:12 ◼   ► steam does it through the system through [TS]

00:19:14 ◼   ► the system login items and you turn off [TS]

00:19:16 ◼   ► it stays off Creative Cloud just keeps [TS]

00:19:17 ◼   ► coming back like an undead zombie anyway [TS]

00:19:19 ◼   ► adobe has a history of having let's say [TS]

00:19:24 ◼   ► challenges related to software [TS]

00:19:26 ◼   ► installation and management of [TS]

00:19:29 ◼   ► installations on the mac there I i have [TS]

00:19:31 ◼   ► at various times search for solutions to [TS]

00:19:33 ◼   ► seemingly intractable adobe application [TS]

00:19:35 ◼   ► installation problems infants and [TS]

00:19:36 ◼   ► instructions on adobe's own website not [TS]

00:19:38 ◼   ► in the forums like literal officially [TS]

00:19:40 ◼   ► official adobe instructions that contain [TS]

00:19:42 ◼   ► terrifying like sets of steps that you [TS]

00:19:45 ◼   ► have to follow to get yourself out of a [TS]

00:19:47 ◼   ► situation in which you're legitimately [TS]

00:19:49 ◼   ► purchase adobe application won't update [TS]

00:19:50 ◼   ► or something they have [TS]

00:19:51 ◼   ► running commands from the shell prompt [TS]

00:19:54 ◼   ► you know sudo RM blah blah it's like it [TS]

00:19:57 ◼   ► seriously this is anyway they have [TS]

00:19:59 ◼   ► serious challenges and this is another [TS]

00:20:02 ◼   ► one of their challenges [TS]

00:20:03 ◼   ► apparently they release some software [TS]

00:20:04 ◼   ► and this is all kind of experimental [TS]

00:20:05 ◼   ► determined by back place and you'll [TS]

00:20:07 ◼   ► understand my bike place is involved at [TS]

00:20:08 ◼   ► all this in a moment [TS]

00:20:10 ◼   ► it's some piece of software that would [TS]

00:20:13 ◼   ► effectively list the folders the [TS]

00:20:16 ◼   ► directories at the top level of your [TS]

00:20:18 ◼   ► volume and sort them i'm assuming a [TS]

00:20:21 ◼   ► schematically as in like capital letters [TS]

00:20:23 ◼   ► first or whatever but any rate periods [TS]

00:20:25 ◼   ► and spaces and stuff first pick the [TS]

00:20:27 ◼   ► first one and delete its contents and it [TS]

00:20:30 ◼   ► was hoping that first one would be like [TS]

00:20:32 ◼   ► a dot adobe something but depending on [TS]

00:20:36 ◼   ► whether you had a previous installation [TS]

00:20:37 ◼   ► it could be something other than dot [TS]

00:20:39 ◼   ► adobe or space adobe over the hall was [TS]

00:20:41 ◼   ► it could in fact be something called dot [TS]

00:20:44 ◼   ► bz ball which is a back plays hidden [TS]

00:20:46 ◼   ► directory where it stores a bunch of [TS]

00:20:47 ◼   ► crap that has to do with the operation [TS]

00:20:49 ◼   ► of back place so people were messing [TS]

00:20:51 ◼   ► with this adobe creative cloud update [TS]

00:20:53 ◼   ► which i'm sure they were all prompted to [TS]

00:20:54 ◼   ► install by the little menu item that [TS]

00:20:56 ◼   ► always runs the people systems and they [TS]

00:20:57 ◼   ► would install it and that installer [TS]

00:20:59 ◼   ► would delete the contents of back blazes [TS]

00:21:01 ◼   ► little directory where it stores [TS]

00:21:03 ◼   ► information about your backups and [TS]

00:21:05 ◼   ► that's pretty antisocial behavior when [TS]

00:21:08 ◼   ► an application not made by you goes and [TS]

00:21:12 ◼   ► deletes all your crap out from under it [TS]

00:21:13 ◼   ► now to black places credit they figured [TS]

00:21:17 ◼   ► out this problem pretty quickly they [TS]

00:21:18 ◼   ► posted a thing on the side that explains [TS]

00:21:19 ◼   ► how to solve the situation they reported [TS]

00:21:21 ◼   ► to adobe and then to adobe's credit will [TS]

00:21:23 ◼   ► be fixed it and pull the updated all the [TS]

00:21:25 ◼   ► stuff and we'll link to a blog post in [TS]

00:21:28 ◼   ► the show notes from backways explaining [TS]

00:21:29 ◼   ► the situation and again we don't have [TS]

00:21:32 ◼   ► the these particular details back please [TS]

00:21:34 ◼   ► just has like experimental experimental [TS]

00:21:36 ◼   ► a determined this that and the other [TS]

00:21:37 ◼   ► thing what people are doing in the [TS]

00:21:39 ◼   ► meantime before these updates was they [TS]

00:21:40 ◼   ► would make a bunch of a series of [TS]

00:21:41 ◼   ► sacrificial folders at the top level of [TS]

00:21:43 ◼   ► their directory like called AAA to make [TS]

00:21:46 ◼   ► the dough hook the adobe thing nuke that [TS]

00:21:47 ◼   ► one and not the bz vol.1 but as back [TS]

00:21:50 ◼   ► place points out even if you have this [TS]

00:21:52 ◼   ► thing happened to you at no time where [TS]

00:21:55 ◼   ► your actual backplate about backups in [TS]

00:21:57 ◼   ► jeopardy because the backups are all [TS]

00:21:59 ◼   ► server-side back plays this was merely [TS]

00:22:00 ◼   ► setting back the client-side [TS]

00:22:02 ◼   ► installation [TS]

00:22:03 ◼   ► view our backup thing by deleting all [TS]

00:22:05 ◼   ► the information needs to keep track of [TS]

00:22:07 ◼   ► stuff so that players will automatically [TS]

00:22:08 ◼   ► created and I'm assuming you have to [TS]

00:22:10 ◼   ► grind your desk for a while to figure [TS]

00:22:11 ◼   ► out what the hell's would recreate that [TS]

00:22:12 ◼   ► directory but it's good to know that [TS]

00:22:15 ◼   ► despite another application coming and [TS]

00:22:17 ◼   ► recursively delete the contents of one [TS]

00:22:19 ◼   ► of its directories your actual backups [TS]

00:22:21 ◼   ► mean like the data that is starting back [TS]

00:22:22 ◼   ► place the server where are we safe [TS]

00:22:24 ◼   ► during this time we give Apple hard time [TS]

00:22:27 ◼   ► for for software quality issues that we [TS]

00:22:29 ◼   ► think they have but we a couple of [TS]

00:22:31 ◼   ► people right in to say why don't you [TS]

00:22:33 ◼   ► complain about Adobe just as much and [TS]

00:22:36 ◼   ► and the truth is adobe software is [TS]

00:22:38 ◼   ► typically far worse than apple software [TS]

00:22:40 ◼   ► especially the non-core thing so you [TS]

00:22:43 ◼   ► think about like photoshop illustrator [TS]

00:22:44 ◼   ► these like the core adobe act like their [TS]

00:22:47 ◼   ► core apps as as much as they can be [TS]

00:22:50 ◼   ► weird and flaky as much as people can [TS]

00:22:51 ◼   ► love and hate them so much at the same [TS]

00:22:53 ◼   ► time they don't usually have stability [TS]

00:22:56 ◼   ► issues or data loss issues they have [TS]

00:22:59 ◼   ► many other issues but those are not [TS]

00:23:00 ◼   ► usually among them so it's not like you [TS]

00:23:03 ◼   ► like that the main core apps tend to [TS]

00:23:05 ◼   ► work decently well most of the time [TS]

00:23:06 ◼   ► although I can anyone Apple but that the [TS]

00:23:10 ◼   ► problem adobe has is all the other like [TS]

00:23:12 ◼   ► supporting crap around them also [TS]

00:23:14 ◼   ► anything related to acrobat but you know [TS]

00:23:16 ◼   ► all that all supporting crap around them [TS]

00:23:18 ◼   ► at the installers the the cloud services [TS]

00:23:21 ◼   ► that they use like the behance plugins [TS]

00:23:23 ◼   ► and all this all this crazy stuff those [TS]

00:23:25 ◼   ► things tend to work very poorly and be [TS]

00:23:28 ◼   ► very inconsistent and the reason why we [TS]

00:23:31 ◼   ► don't usually criticized adobe on this [TS]

00:23:32 ◼   ► show is simply because adobe has been [TS]

00:23:34 ◼   ► making mediocre software for so long [TS]

00:23:36 ◼   ► that we have no expectations of quality [TS]

00:23:38 ◼   ► from Adobe as sad as that is and then I [TS]

00:23:41 ◼   ► say this as a longtime adobe customer [TS]

00:23:43 ◼   ► and user of multiple products by them [TS]

00:23:45 ◼   ► but the fact is that adobe just has a [TS]

00:23:48 ◼   ► really really bad reputation for this [TS]

00:23:50 ◼   ► stuff and has four years so yeah we just [TS]

00:23:52 ◼   ► don't expect much from them and and when [TS]

00:23:53 ◼   ► things like this happen [TS]

00:23:55 ◼   ► it's it's barely even worth mentioning [TS]

00:23:56 ◼   ► because like it just it happened like [TS]

00:23:59 ◼   ► crap with Adobe happens all the time [TS]

00:24:00 ◼   ► usually not this bad but like it's just [TS]

00:24:02 ◼   ► you know it's just one more day using [TS]

00:24:04 ◼   ► adobe stuff for the software doing weird [TS]

00:24:06 ◼   ► stuff and not quite installing right or [TS]

00:24:08 ◼   ► creative cloud is doing weird things in [TS]

00:24:10 ◼   ► the menu bar that's just typical [TS]

00:24:11 ◼   ► behavior and as big as adobe is [TS]

00:24:14 ◼   ► obviously like most people use adobe [TS]

00:24:15 ◼   ► software like especially now [TS]

00:24:17 ◼   ► you know os10 PDF rendering built-in [TS]

00:24:19 ◼   ► everything people have no longer have a [TS]

00:24:21 ◼   ► reason download acrobat just look at [TS]

00:24:23 ◼   ► pdfs if you're not a designer or not [TS]

00:24:26 ◼   ► using one of you know you don't use it [TS]

00:24:28 ◼   ► adobe product so much where is everybody [TS]

00:24:29 ◼   ► is using you know the operating system [TS]

00:24:31 ◼   ► and a lot of the built-in apps that ship [TS]

00:24:33 ◼   ► with Apple think it was just a much [TS]

00:24:34 ◼   ► bigger surface area for people to [TS]

00:24:37 ◼   ► encounter problems with the with apple [TS]

00:24:39 ◼   ► stuff that the reason I want to talk [TS]

00:24:41 ◼   ► about this aside from the backways angle [TS]

00:24:43 ◼   ► and it's just coincidence we have that [TS]

00:24:44 ◼   ► back place a sponsoring this episode is [TS]

00:24:47 ◼   ► the sandboxing angle because a lot of [TS]

00:24:50 ◼   ► discussion i saw about this issue was [TS]

00:24:52 ◼   ► see this is why Apple wants mac [TS]

00:24:55 ◼   ► applications to be sandbox and sent [TS]

00:24:58 ◼   ► quicksand boxing refresher sandboxing is [TS]

00:25:00 ◼   ► basically a way to limit the ability of [TS]

00:25:04 ◼   ► applications to do things so typical [TS]

00:25:07 ◼   ► general-purpose PC or Mac when you're [TS]

00:25:09 ◼   ► running an application that application [TS]

00:25:11 ◼   ► can do anything that you could do as as [TS]

00:25:14 ◼   ► a user as and you could delete all the [TS]

00:25:16 ◼   ► files in your home directory and so can [TS]

00:25:18 ◼   ► any program that you run you could you [TS]

00:25:20 ◼   ► know rename things remove things like [TS]

00:25:23 ◼   ► just you know sit transmit data over the [TS]

00:25:26 ◼   ► network pull data down from somewhere [TS]

00:25:28 ◼   ► anything basically you could do as a [TS]

00:25:31 ◼   ► user or a program that you wrote any [TS]

00:25:32 ◼   ► program that you run can do and what [TS]

00:25:34 ◼   ► sandboxing does is says that each [TS]

00:25:37 ◼   ► individual application has to declare [TS]

00:25:38 ◼   ► what kinds of things it wants to do so [TS]

00:25:42 ◼   ► application might say I need to access [TS]

00:25:44 ◼   ► the network or maybe I need to access [TS]

00:25:46 ◼   ► now we can just go to certain sites i [TS]

00:25:48 ◼   ► need accurate access the camera or the [TS]

00:25:49 ◼   ► microphone i need access to the file [TS]

00:25:52 ◼   ► system i need access to just these two [TS]

00:25:54 ◼   ► folders in the file system and you know [TS]

00:25:56 ◼   ► like that and you can have these sort of [TS]

00:25:59 ◼   ► permissions all up to level of like hey [TS]

00:26:01 ◼   ► I need access to the complete file [TS]

00:26:02 ◼   ► system and historically apple has been [TS]

00:26:04 ◼   ► trying to slowly close that door to say [TS]

00:26:06 ◼   ► you know what [TS]

00:26:07 ◼   ► no application should really have access [TS]

00:26:09 ◼   ► to the entire file system and if you do [TS]

00:26:11 ◼   ► there should be a good reason and that's [TS]

00:26:13 ◼   ► the whole negotiation with the mac app [TS]

00:26:15 ◼   ► store in San boxing mac applications to [TS]

00:26:17 ◼   ► try to this negotiation backwards be an [TS]

00:26:19 ◼   ► apple and the applications of what they [TS]

00:26:21 ◼   ► call them titles what entitlements is [TS]

00:26:23 ◼   ► your application actually need to do its [TS]

00:26:25 ◼   ► job versus which ones you just want to [TS]

00:26:26 ◼   ► have so why is your application they use [TS]

00:26:29 ◼   ► for email acts [TS]

00:26:30 ◼   ► using the camera I and maybe have a good [TS]

00:26:32 ◼   ► reason at all if you don't have an [TS]

00:26:34 ◼   ► avatar [TS]

00:26:34 ◼   ► we will take a picture of you and then [TS]

00:26:37 ◼   ► use that as your after okay well that's [TS]

00:26:39 ◼   ► okay reason why is your email [TS]

00:26:40 ◼   ► application to access the entire file [TS]

00:26:42 ◼   ► system well we don't really know where [TS]

00:26:44 ◼   ► we're going to add file so we just want [TS]

00:26:45 ◼   ► access to the whole file system and now [TS]

00:26:47 ◼   ► sorry we really want you to pick where [TS]

00:26:48 ◼   ► you're gonna put the files you can put a [TS]

00:26:49 ◼   ► dialog box up and the user can pick when [TS]

00:26:51 ◼   ► you get permission for that directory of [TS]

00:26:52 ◼   ► that directory tree but you don't have [TS]

00:26:54 ◼   ► access everywhere and as we just [TS]

00:26:57 ◼   ► discussed with adobe stuff as you might [TS]

00:26:58 ◼   ► imagine [TS]

00:26:59 ◼   ► adobe is not in the mac app store adobe [TS]

00:27:01 ◼   ► sells its own software has its own [TS]

00:27:03 ◼   ► subscription service to create a cloud [TS]

00:27:04 ◼   ► thing where you can sort of rent your [TS]

00:27:06 ◼   ► software and that will give you updates [TS]

00:27:08 ◼   ► for a certain amount of time and they're [TS]

00:27:10 ◼   ► not a nightcap story not just because [TS]

00:27:11 ◼   ► they don't want to share three percent [TS]

00:27:13 ◼   ► of the money battle but also because no [TS]

00:27:14 ◼   ► other applications would function is [TS]

00:27:16 ◼   ► sandboxed and so that that's why [TS]

00:27:20 ◼   ► sandboxing is related to this because it [TS]

00:27:21 ◼   ► if their application with sandbox surely [TS]

00:27:23 ◼   ► there updater wouldn't have the [TS]

00:27:26 ◼   ► entitlement that allows it gives it [TS]

00:27:27 ◼   ► access to the entire file system that [TS]

00:27:29 ◼   ► the updater would instead like maybe [TS]

00:27:30 ◼   ► prompt you to find your application or [TS]

00:27:31 ◼   ► something and then the user would give [TS]

00:27:32 ◼   ► information update [TS]

00:27:34 ◼   ► alrighty offers a Mac App Store updates [TS]

00:27:35 ◼   ► work entirely different anyway because [TS]

00:27:37 ◼   ► it would just be able to update the [TS]

00:27:38 ◼   ► individual apps and their bundles but [TS]

00:27:41 ◼   ► the real issue is alright so sandboxing [TS]

00:27:43 ◼   ► would have saved this but it's not [TS]

00:27:44 ◼   ► sandboxed so what is sandboxing actually [TS]

00:27:47 ◼   ► buying us because if I if you can have [TS]

00:27:50 ◼   ► non sandbox non Mac App Store [TS]

00:27:52 ◼   ► applications does not defeat the purpose [TS]

00:27:55 ◼   ► of sandboxing in other words you can't [TS]

00:27:56 ◼   ► get everybody to be sandbox it doesn't [TS]

00:27:58 ◼   ► matter how great sandboxing us but it [TS]

00:27:59 ◼   ► just takes one sandbox application to [TS]

00:28:01 ◼   ► ruin your day [TS]

00:28:02 ◼   ► so what do you guys think about the [TS]

00:28:03 ◼   ► sandboxing yay or nay angle on this [TS]

00:28:07 ◼   ► whole disaster [TS]

00:28:08 ◼   ► I think it's a reasonable angle but part [TS]

00:28:12 ◼   ► of the reason that the mac is so great [TS]

00:28:14 ◼   ► and part of the reason I've been talking [TS]

00:28:16 ◼   ► the last couple of episodes about things [TS]

00:28:19 ◼   ► that bother me about iOS is that you can [TS]

00:28:21 ◼   ► take things into your own hands in a way [TS]

00:28:23 ◼   ► that you can't with iOS and that's very [TS]

00:28:26 ◼   ► freeing and so I wouldn't I would be [TS]

00:28:30 ◼   ► very upset if all software had to go [TS]

00:28:33 ◼   ► through the mac app store or somehow it [TS]

00:28:36 ◼   ► in another way [TS]

00:28:37 ◼   ► all software with sandbox [TS]

00:28:39 ◼   ► I don't see that as feasible I do think [TS]

00:28:42 ◼   ► though that software developers should [TS]

00:28:45 ◼   ► be better systems of the ecosystem and [TS]

00:28:49 ◼   ► in 20 allow their software to be [TS]

00:28:52 ◼   ► sandboxed wherever possible now I'm not [TS]

00:28:55 ◼   ► clear can use sand box without being in [TS]

00:28:58 ◼   ► the app store so i could Creative Cloud [TS]

00:28:59 ◼   ► still be a third-party third and a third [TS]

00:29:02 ◼   ► party am an outside of the appstore [TS]

00:29:04 ◼   ► thing and also be sandbox get definitely [TS]

00:29:07 ◼   ► you can do that okay and some people do [TS]

00:29:08 ◼   ► that was one of the discussions like wha [TS]

00:29:10 ◼   ► why would anyone voluntarily subject [TS]

00:29:13 ◼   ► their application to the sandbox if [TS]

00:29:14 ◼   ► you're not on the mac app store said [TS]

00:29:15 ◼   ► you're selling an application directly [TS]

00:29:17 ◼   ► why would you go through the trouble of [TS]

00:29:18 ◼   ► sandboxing and part of the reason i was [TS]

00:29:20 ◼   ► to protect yourself from your own bug [TS]

00:29:23 ◼   ► say you have some sort of silly bug or [TS]

00:29:25 ◼   ► not so silly bugger Isis this is an [TS]

00:29:27 ◼   ► itunes spot way back in the day this is [TS]

00:29:29 ◼   ► a very common bug for for the mindset of [TS]

00:29:32 ◼   ► the people that tend to write things [TS]

00:29:34 ◼   ► like installers and uninstallers this [TS]

00:29:36 ◼   ► mindset is the assumption that no Mac [TS]

00:29:38 ◼   ► user know really old-school mac user [TS]

00:29:40 ◼   ► ever make but that basically everyone [TS]

00:29:42 ◼   ► else in the entire computing universe [TS]

00:29:43 ◼   ► except old-school mac user makes an [TS]

00:29:45 ◼   ► assumption is for example file names do [TS]

00:29:48 ◼   ► not contain spaces because who would put [TS]

00:29:50 ◼   ► a space in their file name that's [TS]

00:29:51 ◼   ► madness you can have spaces in filenames [TS]

00:29:52 ◼   ► that the itunes bug was if you had a [TS]

00:29:56 ◼   ► space in your file name there was like a [TS]

00:29:57 ◼   ► shell script that was just blindly [TS]

00:29:59 ◼   ► taking a string building a path that [TS]

00:30:01 ◼   ► string and then running a command on it [TS]

00:30:03 ◼   ► without quoting the string because hey [TS]

00:30:04 ◼   ► what if there's a quote in the string [TS]

00:30:05 ◼   ► who would put a quote in their file [TS]

00:30:07 ◼   ► names mac users would that's right [TS]

00:30:09 ◼   ► okay well these are you single quotes [TS]

00:30:11 ◼   ► who would put a single quote in their [TS]

00:30:12 ◼   ► file names mac users that suit you know [TS]

00:30:14 ◼   ► Mac users were trained for a [TS]

00:30:16 ◼   ► decade-and-a-half that the file name is [TS]

00:30:19 ◼   ► the users domain you can type whatever [TS]

00:30:20 ◼   ► the hell you want their will accept what [TS]

00:30:22 ◼   ► is it a colon or comics was the one you [TS]

00:30:24 ◼   ► can use you can get a colon into you can [TS]

00:30:26 ◼   ► get something that that it appears as a [TS]

00:30:27 ◼   ► colon okay yeah yeah it's colon slash [TS]

00:30:30 ◼   ► there there are limitations so basically [TS]

00:30:32 ◼   ► if i can type it like it you are [TS]

00:30:34 ◼   ► prevented from typing those things [TS]

00:30:35 ◼   ► essentially or you prevented from really [TS]

00:30:37 ◼   ► getting those into the file name but the [TS]

00:30:38 ◼   ► bottom line is you would never think [TS]

00:30:39 ◼   ► that because i put a space in my file [TS]

00:30:41 ◼   ► name this would mean like the items when [TS]

00:30:43 ◼   ► I think what if you had a volume called [TS]

00:30:44 ◼   ► fubar and you had I know you had a [TS]

00:30:47 ◼   ► volume called foo and then you had a pop [TS]

00:30:50 ◼   ► Pat volume called fubar the thing would [TS]

00:30:52 ◼   ► try to delete fubar [TS]

00:30:54 ◼   ► but after the first space the you know [TS]

00:30:55 ◼   ► the RM command would say oh you want me [TS]

00:30:57 ◼   ► to delete volumes food ok I'll go that [TS]

00:30:59 ◼   ► i'll do the loot that ok you also want [TS]

00:31:01 ◼   ► me to leave borrow no no such file and [TS]

00:31:03 ◼   ► you were sad because it just nuclear [TS]

00:31:05 ◼   ► entire directory anyway I'm dealing with [TS]

00:31:07 ◼   ► pads as strings and dealing with path [TS]

00:31:10 ◼   ► strings in a sloppy way is an epidemic [TS]

00:31:12 ◼   ► in the computing world so that it's very [TS]

00:31:17 ◼   ► it's actually very difficult to get that [TS]

00:31:18 ◼   ► part of the the system right and so [TS]

00:31:20 ◼   ► you'd sandbox yourself to say what if I [TS]

00:31:23 ◼   ► make one of those mistakes what if I'm [TS]

00:31:24 ◼   ► deep in objective-c code and I'm you [TS]

00:31:26 ◼   ► know building you know at any time [TS]

00:31:29 ◼   ► you're shelling out or doing something [TS]

00:31:30 ◼   ► that you think I've built a string and [TS]

00:31:32 ◼   ► this is some NS string that has a file [TS]

00:31:34 ◼   ► path and I'm and then instead of feeding [TS]

00:31:35 ◼   ► it to an objective-c framework that [TS]

00:31:37 ◼   ► would presumably do the right thing [TS]

00:31:39 ◼   ► instead you say i'm just going to run [TS]

00:31:41 ◼   ► this external command even if it's like [TS]

00:31:42 ◼   ► I'm just gonna run as external command [TS]

00:31:43 ◼   ► converts mark down into HTML and I'll [TS]

00:31:45 ◼   ► just feed this path and everything will [TS]

00:31:46 ◼   ► be fine i guess you're probably not [TS]

00:31:48 ◼   ► going to nuclear world will probably [TS]

00:31:49 ◼   ► just break when someone puts the space [TS]

00:31:50 ◼   ► or you know an exclamation point or a [TS]

00:31:54 ◼   ► single quotes or double quotes depending [TS]

00:31:55 ◼   ► on how silly you're being about going to [TS]

00:31:57 ◼   ► the shelter to these type of things but [TS]

00:31:59 ◼   ► i can tell you someone who writes in the [TS]

00:32:01 ◼   ► language is actually very close to shell [TS]

00:32:03 ◼   ► script thing even in languages like that [TS]

00:32:06 ◼   ► where you know this is not the whole [TS]

00:32:09 ◼   ► purpose of languages that make it easy [TS]

00:32:10 ◼   ► to run shell commands right to run [TS]

00:32:12 ◼   ► things that you would type of the [TS]

00:32:13 ◼   ► terminal don't those languages have [TS]

00:32:14 ◼   ► facilities for doing all this even in [TS]

00:32:16 ◼   ► those languages people just ignore the [TS]

00:32:18 ◼   ► facilities that allow you to essentially [TS]

00:32:19 ◼   ► pass a list so it'll be due pass [TS]

00:32:21 ◼   ► directly to the exact CVP function or [TS]

00:32:23 ◼   ► whatever where you bypass the shell [TS]

00:32:25 ◼   ► entirely you know what the components of [TS]

00:32:28 ◼   ► the command are you know this is the [TS]

00:32:29 ◼   ► command you know this is the path you [TS]

00:32:30 ◼   ► know this is the whatever never go [TS]

00:32:32 ◼   ► through the shell and let it try to [TS]

00:32:33 ◼   ► figure out where the boundaries are [TS]

00:32:34 ◼   ► because you will just little you be sad [TS]

00:32:36 ◼   ► and it will end in tears [TS]

00:32:37 ◼   ► so if you can sandbox your application [TS]

00:32:39 ◼   ► say i'm only gonna ever edit my [TS]

00:32:41 ◼   ► application will only ever modify files [TS]

00:32:43 ◼   ► in these two directories +1 that the [TS]

00:32:44 ◼   ► user picks themselves with the open side [TS]

00:32:46 ◼   ► of dialog box then when you have this [TS]

00:32:48 ◼   ► bug your application what function [TS]

00:32:50 ◼   ► directly but you will not accidentally [TS]

00:32:51 ◼   ► recursively delete their home directory [TS]

00:32:53 ◼   ► their volume their entire documents [TS]

00:32:55 ◼   ► folder or whatever else so yeah Marco [TS]

00:32:57 ◼   ► would sandboxes on application and i [TS]

00:32:59 ◼   ► think i would too even though probably [TS]

00:33:01 ◼   ► be a giant pain because I think there's [TS]

00:33:03 ◼   ► a lot of [TS]

00:33:03 ◼   ► don't that just don't exist anymore [TS]

00:33:05 ◼   ► because they think nobody in the mac app [TS]

00:33:06 ◼   ► store should have therefore people on [TS]

00:33:07 ◼   ► the outside shouldn't either [TS]

00:33:09 ◼   ► I mean that's the main problem with [TS]

00:33:10 ◼   ► sandboxing is is really not the concept [TS]

00:33:12 ◼   ► it there's two main problems is on the [TS]

00:33:15 ◼   ► mac number one is it wasn't always there [TS]

00:33:16 ◼   ► so we have this entire ecosystem of [TS]

00:33:19 ◼   ► softens and built up over decades that [TS]

00:33:22 ◼   ► it was originally built without the [TS]

00:33:24 ◼   ► concept of sandboxing and then now it [TS]

00:33:26 ◼   ► has to be bolted on and for a lot of [TS]

00:33:27 ◼   ► apps that is either impossible or very [TS]

00:33:29 ◼   ► difficult and then secondly that the [TS]

00:33:32 ◼   ► other problem is that Apple just hasn't [TS]

00:33:34 ◼   ► really been a very good steward of [TS]

00:33:35 ◼   ► taking sandboxing and moving it forward [TS]

00:33:37 ◼   ► and adding entitlements for things that [TS]

00:33:40 ◼   ► really are necessary in the real world [TS]

00:33:41 ◼   ► and as a result the the kind of policy [TS]

00:33:46 ◼   ► by action at least have been doing so [TS]

00:33:47 ◼   ► far is well if you don't want to fit [TS]

00:33:49 ◼   ► into what we want for the mac app store [TS]

00:33:51 ◼   ► we don't want you there at all like we [TS]

00:33:53 ◼   ► don't even want you to use any of this [TS]

00:33:54 ◼   ► technology and and I'm sure that's not [TS]

00:33:57 ◼   ► what like Craig federighi wants to be [TS]

00:33:58 ◼   ► the case but that's what's happening so [TS]

00:34:00 ◼   ► far so hopefully they remember that the [TS]

00:34:02 ◼   ► mac exists just long enough to update [TS]

00:34:04 ◼   ► sandboxing and and give it to make it [TS]

00:34:07 ◼   ► more useful because I as both the [TS]

00:34:08 ◼   ► developer and a user i'm a developer at [TS]

00:34:11 ◼   ► least not yet but but I as a user I [TS]

00:34:13 ◼   ► would love for more of my apps to be [TS]

00:34:15 ◼   ► sandboxed if Apple wants to advance this [TS]

00:34:17 ◼   ► this the system and this practice of [TS]

00:34:20 ◼   ► being of sandbox after I think they [TS]

00:34:21 ◼   ► should they to make more apps able to be [TS]

00:34:24 ◼   ► sandbox in a reasonable way and so I I [TS]

00:34:27 ◼   ► hope there's enough people at Apple who [TS]

00:34:29 ◼   ► agree with that that gets done at some [TS]

00:34:30 ◼   ► point but you as a developer as you know [TS]

00:34:33 ◼   ► not only for protecting you know all of [TS]

00:34:35 ◼   ► your data from my accidental bugs and [TS]

00:34:38 ◼   ► stuff to go into it i would if i if i [TS]

00:34:40 ◼   ► was making it looks sort of making mac [TS]

00:34:42 ◼   ► version overcast [TS]

00:34:43 ◼   ► I'm not but suppose I was please don't [TS]

00:34:45 ◼   ► get excited about insurance rkc i know i [TS]

00:34:47 ◼   ► should I i have a guy i had like forever [TS]

00:34:50 ◼   ► ago I'd like a branch that I could [TS]

00:34:51 ◼   ► compile like the data layer to Mac but [TS]

00:34:53 ◼   ► not the not a UI or anything that's [TS]

00:34:56 ◼   ► that's the kind of app doesn't really [TS]

00:34:58 ◼   ► need deep system access to really [TS]

00:35:00 ◼   ► anything i mean i would need access to [TS]

00:35:02 ◼   ► play audio and that's a and download [TS]

00:35:05 ◼   ► stuff from the network like that's [TS]

00:35:07 ◼   ► that's about it like so i would totally [TS]

00:35:09 ◼   ► accept sandboxing I wouldn't want the [TS]

00:35:11 ◼   ► responsibility of messing with your [TS]

00:35:13 ◼   ► system or messing with other apps [TS]

00:35:15 ◼   ► accidentally or having my at the [TS]

00:35:17 ◼   ► well to be hacked and have some kind of [TS]

00:35:19 ◼   ► remote injection if you a webpage you [TS]

00:35:20 ◼   ► know weird stuff like that like I know [TS]

00:35:22 ◼   ► we're beyond most of that was like web [TS]

00:35:24 ◼   ► stuff these days but still you know it [TS]

00:35:26 ◼   ► would be nice to just like eliminate [TS]

00:35:28 ◼   ► sources of budget you to me it's like as [TS]

00:35:30 ◼   ► a developer would i opted into memory [TS]

00:35:33 ◼   ► protection of course i would like it's [TS]

00:35:35 ◼   ► one of those things where if what you're [TS]

00:35:37 ◼   ► doing can fit within those restrictions [TS]

00:35:39 ◼   ► you should adopt them just because it [TS]

00:35:41 ◼   ► will help it will help you not only make [TS]

00:35:43 ◼   ► better software but ensure more secure [TS]

00:35:45 ◼   ► software as as time goes on as people to [TS]

00:35:48 ◼   ► try to hack it or as you make mistakes [TS]

00:35:49 ◼   ► so of course I would opt into that and [TS]

00:35:52 ◼   ► iOS i'm very glad it's there because [TS]

00:35:53 ◼   ► there's no these whole classes of things [TS]

00:35:56 ◼   ► where like if I gotta support thing that [TS]

00:35:58 ◼   ► says oh whenever i launched overcast [TS]

00:36:01 ◼   ► facebook crashes that's not my problem i [TS]

00:36:04 ◼   ► can't do anything about that you know [TS]

00:36:05 ◼   ► and in a way that's kind of frustrating [TS]

00:36:07 ◼   ► community have to tell people sorry i [TS]

00:36:09 ◼   ► can't really help but also i can say [TS]

00:36:11 ◼   ► well I sorry it's out of my control and [TS]

00:36:14 ◼   ► it's probably everything I'm doing you [TS]

00:36:15 ◼   ► know so there are lots of advantages to [TS]

00:36:18 ◼   ► sandboxing for developers and users as [TS]

00:36:20 ◼   ► long as the system either indicates of [TS]

00:36:22 ◼   ► iOS that's always been there or in the [TS]

00:36:24 ◼   ► case of the mac hopefully it gets better [TS]

00:36:26 ◼   ► enough that people more more apps can [TS]

00:36:29 ◼   ► adopt it so that leaves me the question [TS]

00:36:31 ◼   ► like the this whole sandboxing an Adobe [TS]

00:36:34 ◼   ► bug thing of like apples responsibility [TS]

00:36:37 ◼   ► as a platform or not responsibility [TS]

00:36:38 ◼   ► apples apples goals as the platform [TS]

00:36:40 ◼   ► owner is too i think it should be to try [TS]

00:36:44 ◼   ► to get as many people into the sandbox [TS]

00:36:47 ◼   ► on the mac as possible and they've been [TS]

00:36:49 ◼   ► trying to do that like they did the [TS]

00:36:50 ◼   ► important first step was they themselves [TS]

00:36:52 ◼   ► sandbox a ton of the background demons [TS]

00:36:54 ◼   ► that were on your mac so they like the [TS]

00:36:56 ◼   ► thing that does like name lookups and [TS]

00:36:57 ◼   ► stuff can't doesn't have complete access [TS]

00:36:59 ◼   ► to the file system just to make them [TS]

00:37:01 ◼   ► less of a vector for exploitation in [TS]

00:37:04 ◼   ► terms of malware can do a buffer [TS]

00:37:05 ◼   ► overflow and like the name lookup system [TS]

00:37:08 ◼   ► it does it can't write an arbitrary file [TS]

00:37:10 ◼   ► to anywhere in the file system because [TS]

00:37:11 ◼   ► that thing is still a sandbox a sandbox [TS]

00:37:13 ◼   ► a lot of their own things sandbox a lot [TS]

00:37:15 ◼   ► of the OS they tried to send back some [TS]

00:37:16 ◼   ► of their applications and of course they [TS]

00:37:18 ◼   ► eventually restricted the mac app store [TS]

00:37:20 ◼   ► to it which heard a lot of applications [TS]

00:37:22 ◼   ► but at this point that the the other [TS]

00:37:25 ◼   ► area of trying to get more things in [TS]

00:37:27 ◼   ► sandboxes saying are you an important [TS]

00:37:30 ◼   ► pop [TS]

00:37:30 ◼   ► other application that a lot of people [TS]

00:37:31 ◼   ► use and you're not using a sandbox and [TS]

00:37:34 ◼   ► they're like that should be the focus of [TS]

00:37:36 ◼   ► all their efforts out why are you not [TS]

00:37:37 ◼   ► using the sandbox what can we do to help [TS]

00:37:39 ◼   ► you get in the sandbox yes even for [TS]

00:37:41 ◼   ► companies like Adobe that will probably [TS]

00:37:42 ◼   ► never be in the mac app store for [TS]

00:37:43 ◼   ► financial reasons in terms of profit [TS]

00:37:45 ◼   ► sharing with Apple they should still be [TS]

00:37:47 ◼   ► saying adobe we understand you're never [TS]

00:37:49 ◼   ► gonna have a 30-percent we understand [TS]

00:37:50 ◼   ► you have your own subscription service [TS]

00:37:52 ◼   ► your own weird thing going on there [TS]

00:37:53 ◼   ► that's fine but we would still like all [TS]

00:37:56 ◼   ► of your applications including your [TS]

00:37:58 ◼   ► installers and everything to be in the [TS]

00:38:00 ◼   ► sandbox [TS]

00:38:01 ◼   ► what do we have to do to get you into [TS]

00:38:02 ◼   ► the sandbox today like car dealership [TS]

00:38:05 ◼   ► that you know they need to be out there [TS]

00:38:07 ◼   ► trying to get butts in the seats just [TS]

00:38:11 ◼   ► mixing my analogies now on the sandbox [TS]

00:38:13 ◼   ► and if that means making variants of the [TS]

00:38:16 ◼   ► sandbox that are entirely different than [TS]

00:38:19 ◼   ► whatever be a lot of the mac app store [TS]

00:38:20 ◼   ► that would still be a benefit to both [TS]

00:38:22 ◼   ► Apple and users right so that you know [TS]

00:38:24 ◼   ► trying to be ideologically pure and say [TS]

00:38:26 ◼   ► if you can't fit within the sandbox as [TS]

00:38:28 ◼   ► we define it just fine it like ideally [TS]

00:38:31 ◼   ► for these isolated applications like [TS]

00:38:33 ◼   ► they are in iOS that tough luck you [TS]

00:38:34 ◼   ► can't use it at all [TS]

00:38:35 ◼   ► you know or if we say you know don't we [TS]

00:38:37 ◼   ► could be maybe apples telling you know [TS]

00:38:38 ◼   ► but you could be the sandbox now but [TS]

00:38:40 ◼   ► you're not nobody's like yeah we see [TS]

00:38:42 ◼   ► kind of what the upside might be for you [TS]

00:38:44 ◼   ► apple and for users but it just seems [TS]

00:38:46 ◼   ► like a lot of work and even there's no [TS]

00:38:47 ◼   ► real technical limitations we could do [TS]

00:38:49 ◼   ► it today we don't want to and that's [TS]

00:38:51 ◼   ► kind of you know Apple what Apple's job [TS]

00:38:53 ◼   ► is to try to convince adobe to [TS]

00:38:55 ◼   ► essentially spend money time and effort [TS]

00:38:58 ◼   ► to get into the sandbox and so if I was [TS]

00:39:01 ◼   ► apple i would say i would have had these [TS]

00:39:04 ◼   ► efforts ongoing and be when this bug it [TS]

00:39:05 ◼   ► would be like trying to nicely say to [TS]

00:39:08 ◼   ► Adobe you know depending on the current [TS]

00:39:10 ◼   ► situation is I don't know it could be [TS]

00:39:11 ◼   ► that it will be can't get in the sandbox [TS]

00:39:12 ◼   ► right now at all but if they can be and [TS]

00:39:14 ◼   ► they just refuse to because it takes too [TS]

00:39:16 ◼   ► much effort I will be gently pressing [TS]

00:39:18 ◼   ► them to say see if you would if you [TS]

00:39:20 ◼   ► would sandbox your applications you [TS]

00:39:22 ◼   ► could avoid this bug that was [TS]

00:39:24 ◼   ► embarrassing for you and bad for our [TS]

00:39:25 ◼   ► users [TS]

00:39:26 ◼   ► what can we do to help can we send [TS]

00:39:28 ◼   ► engineers out there can we help you like [TS]

00:39:29 ◼   ► and not everyone gets this treatment but [TS]

00:39:31 ◼   ► it will be even though a lot of people [TS]

00:39:32 ◼   ► don't use it enough people use it and [TS]

00:39:34 ◼   ► apple still thinks creative [TS]

00:39:35 ◼   ► professionals an important market for [TS]

00:39:36 ◼   ► them you know anyway that's my hope for [TS]

00:39:38 ◼   ► the future for sandboxing that it [TS]

00:39:41 ◼   ► actually becomes more broadly useful [TS]

00:39:43 ◼   ► because it's unrealistic like Casey [TS]

00:39:45 ◼   ► pointed out to you know and [TS]

00:39:47 ◼   ► counterproductive to try to get every [TS]

00:39:49 ◼   ► single application to the marrow sandbox [TS]

00:39:51 ◼   ► has defined the mac app store but it is [TS]

00:39:53 ◼   ► good for everybody involved in the [TS]

00:39:55 ◼   ► sandbox can expand and get more [TS]

00:39:57 ◼   ► participants in it it's just as I become [TS]

00:40:00 ◼   ► an older and older developer in person [TS]

00:40:03 ◼   ► I feel like I've learned more and more [TS]

00:40:08 ◼   ► usually the hard way to protect against [TS]

00:40:10 ◼   ► myself and this is the same thing you [TS]

00:40:11 ◼   ► guys are saying earlier and so as you [TS]

00:40:13 ◼   ► get older you you go even further than [TS]

00:40:17 ◼   ► you think necessary to prevent yourself [TS]

00:40:20 ◼   ► from being an idiot [TS]

00:40:22 ◼   ► at least that's the way I am and i just [TS]

00:40:25 ◼   ► it seems the responsible thing to do app [TS]

00:40:29 ◼   ► store or not to sandbox your app if at [TS]

00:40:32 ◼   ► all possible and yes sometimes it's a [TS]

00:40:34 ◼   ► friggin nightmare i am quite sure but [TS]

00:40:36 ◼   ► it's the responsible thing to do and in [TS]

00:40:38 ◼   ► its really unfortunate that adobe didn't [TS]

00:40:41 ◼   ► and hasn't done that yet our second spot [TS]

00:40:44 ◼   ► to this week is a responsible company [TS]

00:40:46 ◼   ► its hover hover is the best way to buy a [TS]

00:40:49 ◼   ► managed domain names go to hover com use [TS]

00:40:51 ◼   ► promo code bridges to burn Casey for ten [TS]

00:40:54 ◼   ► percent off your first purchase when you [TS]

00:40:57 ◼   ► have a great idea you want a great [TS]

00:40:58 ◼   ► domain name that's catchy and memorable [TS]

00:40:59 ◼   ► however give you exactly what you need [TS]

00:41:01 ◼   ► to find the perfect domain name for your [TS]

00:41:02 ◼   ► idea so you can get started actually [TS]

00:41:04 ◼   ► working on it never gives you easy to [TS]

00:41:06 ◼   ► use powerful tools to buy and manage [TS]

00:41:08 ◼   ► domains anybody can do it and if you [TS]

00:41:10 ◼   ► ever need any help they have amazing [TS]

00:41:12 ◼   ► support and all you have you know [TS]

00:41:13 ◼   ► regular email like everybody else but [TS]

00:41:15 ◼   ► they have no wait no hold no transfer [TS]

00:41:18 ◼   ► phone support so when you call a real [TS]

00:41:20 ◼   ► live human being is ready to help they [TS]

00:41:22 ◼   ► just pick up the phone there's no [TS]

00:41:23 ◼   ► weights no holds and no transfers now in [TS]

00:41:26 ◼   ► less than five minutes [TS]

00:41:27 ◼   ► find domain you can get it up and [TS]

00:41:28 ◼   ► running and hover all you gotta do is [TS]

00:41:30 ◼   ► search for a few keywords and they will [TS]

00:41:31 ◼   ► show you what is available from all the [TS]

00:41:34 ◼   ► crazy TLD that are out there and believe [TS]

00:41:35 ◼   ► me there are some crazy ones out there [TS]

00:41:37 ◼   ► these days if you register domain name [TS]

00:41:39 ◼   ► anywhere else you probably didn't enjoy [TS]

00:41:41 ◼   ► the experience very much because domain [TS]

00:41:43 ◼   ► name registration is notorious for being [TS]

00:41:45 ◼   ► just very confusing on these very hard [TS]

00:41:47 ◼   ► to use sites often times you feel kind [TS]

00:41:49 ◼   ► of cheated her or railroaded into [TS]

00:41:51 ◼   ► getting about to add ons that you didn't [TS]

00:41:52 ◼   ► really necessarily need or you don't [TS]

00:41:54 ◼   ► really fully understand [TS]

00:41:55 ◼   ► however is not like that at all however [TS]

00:41:57 ◼   ► respect you get respect the user they [TS]

00:41:59 ◼   ► have a nice clean design everything is [TS]

00:42:02 ◼   ► fast and responsive on their site and [TS]

00:42:04 ◼   ► buying things could not be easier they [TS]

00:42:07 ◼   ► don't try to upsell you with crazy stuff [TS]

00:42:09 ◼   ► or so you anything you don't need they [TS]

00:42:11 ◼   ► even include a bunch of stuff for free [TS]

00:42:12 ◼   ► like who is privacy [TS]

00:42:13 ◼   ► however also has email solutions twenty [TS]

00:42:16 ◼   ► bucks a year to a fully functional email [TS]

00:42:17 ◼   ► account with 10 gigs of storage 29 bucks [TS]

00:42:20 ◼   ► a year into the big mailbox which is a [TS]

00:42:21 ◼   ► terabyte of storage [TS]

00:42:23 ◼   ► check it out today hovered calm and use [TS]

00:42:26 ◼   ► promo code bridges to burn for ten [TS]

00:42:28 ◼   ► percent off your first purchase [TS]

00:42:30 ◼   ► thank you very much to her alright so [TS]

00:42:32 ◼   ► there was a very interesting episode of [TS]

00:42:36 ◼   ► the talk show this past week Tom DQ and [TS]

00:42:39 ◼   ► Craig federighi were on the talk show [TS]

00:42:41 ◼   ► and this is the third incarnation of an [TS]

00:42:45 ◼   ► apple executive on the talk shows that [TS]

00:42:46 ◼   ► correct yeah a factory second appearance [TS]

00:42:48 ◼   ► either he's already had two groups [TS]

00:42:50 ◼   ► already getting multiple appearances of [TS]

00:42:52 ◼   ► apple executives shows you see the new [TS]

00:42:54 ◼   ► malts and you never know when he can't [TS]

00:42:56 ◼   ► get anybody else he calls a seafood and [TS]

00:42:58 ◼   ► eq to come down [TS]

00:42:59 ◼   ► yeah yeah totally [TS]

00:43:02 ◼   ► so anyway so they got on the talk shows [TS]

00:43:06 ◼   ► a great episode which is unsurprising [TS]

00:43:08 ◼   ► why why do it [TS]

00:43:11 ◼   ► yeah that's my first question is why are [TS]

00:43:14 ◼   ► because the out as we made a joke that [TS]

00:43:16 ◼   ► group called them up and bring them on [TS]

00:43:18 ◼   ► sometimes that happens like I don't you [TS]

00:43:19 ◼   ► know it i don't i'm not privy to any [TS]

00:43:20 ◼   ► inside information about who calls who [TS]

00:43:22 ◼   ► but the question is it regardless of who [TS]

00:43:25 ◼   ► asked you to be on when why it do [TS]

00:43:28 ◼   ► why does Applewhite apple executives [TS]

00:43:30 ◼   ► agree to come on a podcast at this [TS]

00:43:33 ◼   ► particular time when Craig federighi [TS]

00:43:35 ◼   ► came on episode that I was actually on [TS]

00:43:38 ◼   ► the sort of commentary portion [TS]

00:43:40 ◼   ► afterwards [TS]

00:43:41 ◼   ► clearly he was there to talk about Swift [TS]

00:43:43 ◼   ► open source projects because that's [TS]

00:43:44 ◼   ► that's what it came on the show to do [TS]

00:43:45 ◼   ► that's what he talked about that it just [TS]

00:43:47 ◼   ► happened right when swift one open [TS]

00:43:49 ◼   ► source we talked about in the show they [TS]

00:43:50 ◼   ► talked about on the talk show and so [TS]

00:43:52 ◼   ► that was clear and in this case there's [TS]

00:43:54 ◼   ► no as far as I'm aware there's not [TS]

00:43:56 ◼   ► really any big apple announcement I mean [TS]

00:43:58 ◼   ► I guess there's a 9.3 beta but that is a [TS]

00:44:00 ◼   ► not particularly fresh news and so this [TS]

00:44:03 ◼   ► is my assumption going in when I saw [TS]

00:44:05 ◼   ► these were the guests was that they were [TS]

00:44:07 ◼   ► going to talk about [TS]

00:44:07 ◼   ► Walt Mossberg article because that's I [TS]

00:44:10 ◼   ► guess big news but I mean that's the [TS]

00:44:13 ◼   ► real question is not why is Apple having [TS]

00:44:16 ◼   ► a executives like you know talk to [TS]

00:44:18 ◼   ► websites as they did about Swift [TS]

00:44:20 ◼   ► open-sourcing or go on podcast and stuff [TS]

00:44:21 ◼   ► like that because that's all about the [TS]

00:44:22 ◼   ► whole new open apple thing but it still [TS]

00:44:24 ◼   ► seems like there has to be a reason and [TS]

00:44:26 ◼   ► having listened to the show [TS]

00:44:28 ◼   ► it's still not entirely clear to me like [TS]

00:44:31 ◼   ► what what they were there to do like [TS]

00:44:35 ◼   ► when you know when the celebrities on a [TS]

00:44:37 ◼   ► talk show on television talk show the [TS]

00:44:38 ◼   ► better about the movie that's that [TS]

00:44:39 ◼   ► opening this weekend that they're in [TS]

00:44:41 ◼   ► right or whatever you know and the same [TS]

00:44:42 ◼   ► thing with a swift open-source like [TS]

00:44:43 ◼   ► you're there to promote something your [TS]

00:44:44 ◼   ► company's doing and then at the same [TS]

00:44:45 ◼   ► time you know a good host of course as [TS]

00:44:47 ◼   ► some other questions as well but i'm [TS]

00:44:49 ◼   ► assuming even after listening to the [TS]

00:44:51 ◼   ► episode that probably the reason they [TS]

00:44:53 ◼   ► were there was to talk about the walt [TS]

00:44:55 ◼   ► mossberg article but i'm not entirely [TS]

00:44:56 ◼   ► sure what was your sense from listen to [TS]

00:44:58 ◼   ► the episode that basically that same [TS]

00:45:01 ◼   ► thing I mean it was you know III also [TS]

00:45:03 ◼   ► assumed that there be more kind of like [TS]

00:45:05 ◼   ► direct addressing of that but you know [TS]

00:45:08 ◼   ► you have like I mean as we know the [TS]

00:45:10 ◼   ► three people talking and you know it's [TS]

00:45:13 ◼   ► only a 45-minute interview you know what [TS]

00:45:15 ◼   ► you brought the formalities like there's [TS]

00:45:17 ◼   ► not a whole lot of time for like actual [TS]

00:45:18 ◼   ► in-depth discussion when you have three [TS]

00:45:20 ◼   ► people who want to talk as we know is [TS]

00:45:22 ◼   ► that's why our show is never 45 minutes [TS]

00:45:24 ◼   ► long [TS]

00:45:24 ◼   ► you're lucky to have us one segment be [TS]

00:45:27 ◼   ► 45 minutes on one topic that's show's [TS]

00:45:29 ◼   ► logo is it never 45 minutes [TS]

00:45:30 ◼   ► yes let's get started and so you know i [TS]

00:45:35 ◼   ► think a lot of just time but but i also [TS]

00:45:36 ◼   ► think you know this is Apple PR were [TS]

00:45:38 ◼   ► talking about and even these are [TS]

00:45:39 ◼   ► executives coming on a talk show with [TS]

00:45:41 ◼   ► our friend John and you know in a kind a [TS]

00:45:43 ◼   ► more casual environment this is still [TS]

00:45:45 ◼   ► high power executives from the biggest [TS]

00:45:48 ◼   ► technology company in the universe etc [TS]

00:45:50 ◼   ► with very strong PR strategy and NPR [TS]

00:45:55 ◼   ► control you know like these are people [TS]

00:45:57 ◼   ► who are going to go off just off the [TS]

00:45:58 ◼   ► deep end like have a couple doing [TS]

00:46:00 ◼   ► something on the show and tell us all [TS]

00:46:01 ◼   ► the secrets like that's not that is what [TS]

00:46:02 ◼   ► this is you know this is in part it's [TS]

00:46:05 ◼   ► probably to help humanize that there are [TS]

00:46:07 ◼   ► people at this company not just robots [TS]

00:46:09 ◼   ► in a brick wall like it's actually [TS]

00:46:10 ◼   ► humans doing the best they can [TS]

00:46:12 ◼   ► it's to humanize them and also i think [TS]

00:46:15 ◼   ► it was really about this discussion of [TS]

00:46:17 ◼   ► of software and service quality it was [TS]

00:46:20 ◼   ► it was very [TS]

00:46:21 ◼   ► obvious that they were prepared with [TS]

00:46:24 ◼   ► stats and and you know various like [TS]

00:46:26 ◼   ► author authorized figures they were able [TS]

00:46:28 ◼   ► to give out about how well they're doing [TS]

00:46:29 ◼   ► how well their quality is going the the [TS]

00:46:32 ◼   ► crash rates that number of Apple music [TS]

00:46:34 ◼   ► subscribers how well the websites and [TS]

00:46:36 ◼   ► the web services hold up under all these [TS]

00:46:38 ◼   ► loads know they were very clearly [TS]

00:46:40 ◼   ► prepared with like PR proved stats they [TS]

00:46:44 ◼   ► could share to demonstrate that we don't [TS]

00:46:47 ◼   ► really have these big quality problems / [TS]

00:46:49 ◼   ► we have good reasons to have quality [TS]

00:46:51 ◼   ► problems like it was kind of like this [TS]

00:46:52 ◼   ► slightly defensive but not like in like [TS]

00:46:56 ◼   ► a really aggressive way and it was it [TS]

00:46:59 ◼   ► was basically it see it read to me or it [TS]

00:47:03 ◼   ► listen to me and it has to be it it [TS]

00:47:07 ◼   ► listened a little defensive use red [TS]

00:47:09 ◼   ► looking up its electric definition I [TS]

00:47:10 ◼   ► know but yeah it it seemed slightly [TS]

00:47:14 ◼   ► defensive but mostly just like almost [TS]

00:47:17 ◼   ► almost in denial that there are any real [TS]

00:47:21 ◼   ► like you know downward slopes going on [TS]

00:47:23 ◼   ► here and and that might be true from a [TS]

00:47:26 ◼   ► lot of things they talked about i mean [TS]

00:47:27 ◼   ► their web services are at ridiculous [TS]

00:47:30 ◼   ► scale and and they are mostly working [TS]

00:47:32 ◼   ► most of the time and they do have tons [TS]

00:47:35 ◼   ► of people using it but the the only [TS]

00:47:37 ◼   ► nitpicks I i had with it really [TS]

00:47:39 ◼   ► besides I wish it could be longer but I [TS]

00:47:41 ◼   ► understand why i probably couldn't be [TS]

00:47:42 ◼   ► seen I don't think you can get to high [TS]

00:47:45 ◼   ► power apple executives to give you like [TS]

00:47:47 ◼   ► three hours of rest as much as we would [TS]

00:47:50 ◼   ► like them to but but you know i might my [TS]

00:47:53 ◼   ► main it picks with it were basically [TS]

00:47:55 ◼   ► that there really wasn't enough time to [TS]

00:47:58 ◼   ► to kind of fight back a little bit order [TS]

00:48:01 ◼   ► to ask a lot of the things a lot of [TS]

00:48:03 ◼   ► their defenses were using excuses [TS]

00:48:06 ◼   ► they're totally within apples control to [TS]

00:48:08 ◼   ► change so for instance that the biggest [TS]

00:48:10 ◼   ► one stuck out to me was when Craig [TS]

00:48:14 ◼   ► federighi was a no [TS]

00:48:16 ◼   ► overall I thought both Craig and Randy [TS]

00:48:17 ◼   ► came off very well but but Craig it [TS]

00:48:20 ◼   ► during during one party was saying how [TS]

00:48:23 ◼   ► like people like snow leopard back in [TS]

00:48:25 ◼   ► the day but nobody ever really installed [TS]

00:48:26 ◼   ► snow leopard you know 10.6 points 0 and [TS]

00:48:30 ◼   ► most of the time people are spending on [TS]

00:48:31 ◼   ► like 10 points 6.4 template 6.5 [TS]

00:48:34 ◼   ► etc and so he's basically saying like [TS]

00:48:36 ◼   ► you know back then they had way fewer [TS]

00:48:38 ◼   ► total users and also people wait longer [TS]

00:48:40 ◼   ► before upgrade to the newest stuff [TS]

00:48:43 ◼   ► well very heavily promoted very heavily [TS]

00:48:46 ◼   ► pushed off an automatic software updates [TS]

00:48:48 ◼   ► are with an apple control Apple has [TS]

00:48:51 ◼   ► themselves very aggressively pushed OS [TS]

00:48:53 ◼   ► updates every release since then and [TS]

00:48:56 ◼   ► they use these to even be paid that was [TS]

00:48:58 ◼   ► I think the first one that was thirty [TS]

00:49:00 ◼   ► bucks something like that the name of [TS]

00:49:02 ◼   ► that I've been free after that but like [TS]

00:49:03 ◼   ► so back then they were paid and they [TS]

00:49:05 ◼   ► were a bigger deal and also most [TS]

00:49:07 ◼   ► critically didn't come out every year [TS]

00:49:09 ◼   ► you know back then did the release cycle [TS]

00:49:12 ◼   ► is more like every two years and I don't [TS]

00:49:14 ◼   ► know the exact target exactly average [TS]

00:49:15 ◼   ► you to write reviews of outlook but you [TS]

00:49:18 ◼   ► know it you know back then we we had [TS]

00:49:20 ◼   ► these longer cycles and of course you [TS]

00:49:23 ◼   ► know the product for simpler because [TS]

00:49:24 ◼   ► they were doing less and there is a [TS]

00:49:26 ◼   ► valid point to be made that we now live [TS]

00:49:28 ◼   ► in a way more complicated computing [TS]

00:49:30 ◼   ► environment we have so many more devices [TS]

00:49:32 ◼   ► that are doing so many more things [TS]

00:49:33 ◼   ► interact with so many more services but [TS]

00:49:35 ◼   ► then the argument that that Apple is [TS]

00:49:38 ◼   ► somehow or rather the argument that you [TS]

00:49:40 ◼   ► can excuse more flaws today because [TS]

00:49:44 ◼   ► everyone upgrades really fast the latest [TS]

00:49:45 ◼   ► OS today I don't think is a valid [TS]

00:49:47 ◼   ► defense because Apple is the one pushing [TS]

00:49:50 ◼   ► the updates that frequently and also [TS]

00:49:52 ◼   ► apple is the one who nowadays the OS is [TS]

00:49:55 ◼   ► never even get to like a point five [TS]

00:49:58 ◼   ► point sexually anymore like the u.s. is [TS]

00:50:00 ◼   ► now they're changed every year with [TS]

00:50:03 ◼   ► major releases and major releases kind [TS]

00:50:05 ◼   ► of allowed to be a little bit less [TS]

00:50:06 ◼   ► stable and so you now it feels like we [TS]

00:50:09 ◼   ► are not reaching the states that we used [TS]

00:50:10 ◼   ► to reach for half the release cycle [TS]

00:50:12 ◼   ► where things were pretty stable and you [TS]

00:50:14 ◼   ► can update from like you know leopard to [TS]

00:50:16 ◼   ► 10.6 point for and be relatively sure [TS]

00:50:20 ◼   ► that all they worked it all out by now [TS]

00:50:21 ◼   ► now it seems like they don't have time [TS]

00:50:23 ◼   ► to work it all out anymore and that is [TS]

00:50:25 ◼   ► entirely an apple created construct [TS]

00:50:28 ◼   ► apple has created these conditions [TS]

00:50:30 ◼   ► apples the one pushing these conditions [TS]

00:50:31 ◼   ► at it's totally within apples control to [TS]

00:50:33 ◼   ► not heavily push the updates when it's [TS]

00:50:36 ◼   ► still 2.02 not do updates every year if [TS]

00:50:40 ◼   ► they don't want to for something like [TS]

00:50:41 ◼   ► the mac which is not hiding high-profile [TS]

00:50:43 ◼   ► this is totally with annapolis control [TS]

00:50:45 ◼   ► to to fix or two [TS]

00:50:47 ◼   ► you make better to improve and so that [TS]

00:50:51 ◼   ► is not about defense before I want to [TS]

00:50:53 ◼   ► pick up some of the things they said as [TS]

00:50:54 ◼   ► well and and the format but i also want [TS]

00:50:56 ◼   ► to hear but I'm going somewhere with [TS]

00:50:58 ◼   ► this why were they on the show thing and [TS]

00:51:00 ◼   ► I'm here Casey has the same impression [TS]

00:51:02 ◼   ► that they were on to talk about software [TS]

00:51:03 ◼   ► quality or if you thought they were on [TS]

00:51:05 ◼   ► for some other reason or if they're on [TS]

00:51:07 ◼   ► for no reason i think most simply it was [TS]

00:51:10 ◼   ► about software quality but I agreed that [TS]

00:51:13 ◼   ► it was a more meandering less focused [TS]

00:51:17 ◼   ► appearance then I would have expected if [TS]

00:51:19 ◼   ► they were if they were doing damage [TS]

00:51:21 ◼   ► control and i'm not sure if that's [TS]

00:51:23 ◼   ► deliberate if this meandering and this [TS]

00:51:26 ◼   ► kind of casual conversation was was to [TS]

00:51:29 ◼   ► lead us to believe that it wasn't damage [TS]

00:51:31 ◼   ► control that it was just because and [TS]

00:51:34 ◼   ► they just felt like talking to Gruber [TS]

00:51:35 ◼   ► but i would say that worry not for [TS]

00:51:39 ◼   ► Walt's article and clearly this podcast [TS]

00:51:41 ◼   ► and I don't think that uh I don't see [TS]

00:51:44 ◼   ► why they would have felt the need to go [TS]

00:51:46 ◼   ► on John show and i don't mean that as a [TS]

00:51:47 ◼   ► slight 22 gruber at all i just it's it's [TS]

00:51:51 ◼   ► not a normal thing for one let alone two [TS]

00:51:55 ◼   ► executives to just decide to go on a [TS]

00:51:57 ◼   ► podcast so i think it was about damage [TS]

00:51:59 ◼   ► control but I think whether or not it [TS]

00:52:02 ◼   ► was deliberate [TS]

00:52:03 ◼   ► it was loose enough to so that you [TS]

00:52:06 ◼   ► couldn't say it was explicitly about [TS]

00:52:08 ◼   ► damage control it and I'm leading up to [TS]

00:52:11 ◼   ► Marco's points here so bear with me bite [TS]

00:52:12 ◼   ► by related question this is what is the [TS]

00:52:16 ◼   ► job of insert whatever Craig's title [TS]

00:52:19 ◼   ► insurance or whatever his title is like [TS]

00:52:21 ◼   ► senior vice-president software whatever [TS]

00:52:23 ◼   ► like what is their job what if you were [TS]

00:52:25 ◼   ► to look at the job description if they [TS]

00:52:26 ◼   ► were hiring a new one if you know with [TS]

00:52:28 ◼   ► Greg retires and they want to hire a [TS]

00:52:29 ◼   ► replacement they don't want to promote [TS]

00:52:31 ◼   ► from within whatever like what what is [TS]

00:52:33 ◼   ► the job description of those executives [TS]

00:52:35 ◼   ► and i can tell you in the Steve Jobs era [TS]

00:52:37 ◼   ► the job description for all those super [TS]

00:52:39 ◼   ► important guys you know head of all of [TS]

00:52:42 ◼   ► OS 10 you know Bergeron survey or [TS]

00:52:43 ◼   ► whatever or like get a spearhead of the [TS]

00:52:46 ◼   ► iOS team or whatever that nowhere in [TS]

00:52:48 ◼   ► that job description was be the [TS]

00:52:51 ◼   ► mouthpiece for Apple I talked to the [TS]

00:52:54 ◼   ► public in a way that moves public [TS]

00:52:58 ◼   ► opinion in the direction that Apple [TS]

00:52:59 ◼   ► wants to move it was just add [TS]

00:53:01 ◼   ► absolutely not in any of their job [TS]

00:53:03 ◼   ► descriptions because they never talk to [TS]

00:53:04 ◼   ► the press they weren't allowed to talk [TS]

00:53:06 ◼   ► to the press they barely talk to [TS]

00:53:07 ◼   ► developers like that there was not in [TS]

00:53:10 ◼   ► the end it's different than many other [TS]

00:53:12 ◼   ► companies lots of other companies you [TS]

00:53:13 ◼   ► could say oh well once you reach a [TS]

00:53:15 ◼   ► certain level on the executive latter [TS]

00:53:17 ◼   ► part of your job is to talk to the [TS]

00:53:19 ◼   ► public in some way right now mediated by [TS]

00:53:21 ◼   ► the PR department so on and so forth but [TS]

00:53:23 ◼   ► that because you become a public figure [TS]

00:53:25 ◼   ► that occasionally says things with the [TS]

00:53:28 ◼   ► blessing of the cooperation in an effort [TS]

00:53:31 ◼   ► to to change public opinion or to get [TS]

00:53:36 ◼   ► your message out there or whatever [TS]

00:53:37 ◼   ► there's not a lot of those people like [TS]

00:53:38 ◼   ► everybody in the company is the voice of [TS]

00:53:40 ◼   ► the company but now in the post jobs are [TS]

00:53:43 ◼   ► in the more open apple which we all like [TS]

00:53:45 ◼   ► clearly some of these people at a high [TS]

00:53:48 ◼   ► enough level are now tasked with [TS]

00:53:51 ◼   ► essentially or eat asking themselves [TS]

00:53:52 ◼   ► with that we don't know how puts [TS]

00:53:53 ◼   ► motivating whatever but they are being [TS]

00:53:55 ◼   ► allowed that the company Apple is that [TS]

00:53:57 ◼   ► as a company has decided we're going to [TS]

00:54:00 ◼   ► send Craig federighi to 17 different [TS]

00:54:02 ◼   ► websites and the talkshow to tell them [TS]

00:54:04 ◼   ► about the Swift open source project [TS]

00:54:06 ◼   ► we're not just gonna have a press [TS]

00:54:07 ◼   ► release [TS]

00:54:08 ◼   ► we're not just going to have someone say [TS]

00:54:09 ◼   ► something in the keynote we're not just [TS]

00:54:11 ◼   ► going to issue official statements to PR [TS]

00:54:13 ◼   ► channels we're going to send this person [TS]

00:54:16 ◼   ► whose job up to this point did not [TS]

00:54:18 ◼   ► really involve a lot of public [TS]

00:54:20 ◼   ► statements about things he's going to go [TS]

00:54:22 ◼   ► out there and promote the Swift open [TS]

00:54:24 ◼   ► source project and try to hit the points [TS]

00:54:26 ◼   ► that we've all agreed that are the [TS]

00:54:28 ◼   ► bullet points and like marcasite little [TS]

00:54:29 ◼   ► sheet of whatever stats you want to say [TS]

00:54:30 ◼   ► whatever facts you want to get out there [TS]

00:54:32 ◼   ► like basically doing the job of PR but [TS]

00:54:35 ◼   ► now there's a human doing and so now you [TS]

00:54:37 ◼   ► have these two guys at Eddie and Craig [TS]

00:54:39 ◼   ► coming on a very casual type of [TS]

00:54:42 ◼   ► situation where they are talking [TS]

00:54:44 ◼   ► unfiltered it's not real time it's not [TS]

00:54:46 ◼   ► live but it's very you know just kind of [TS]

00:54:49 ◼   ► like we're gonna talk and we're going to [TS]

00:54:51 ◼   ► discuss things and the reason i asked [TS]

00:54:54 ◼   ► about this is as in what the job is like [TS]

00:54:57 ◼   ► that scale being able to being able to [TS]

00:55:01 ◼   ► go somewhere in an atmosphere like that [TS]

00:55:04 ◼   ► and hit the points that you want to hit [TS]