ATP

00:00:00 ◼   ► Just a few minutes ago, Declan has shown probably more because he was procrastinating getting in bed

00:00:05 ◼   ► than because of genuine enthusiasm, but he was showing an unusual amount of enthusiasm about, you know,

00:00:10 ◼   ► the mechanism and machinations of recording. And so, you know, I was explaining, "Oh, that's the chat room."

00:00:16 ◼   ► And he was, you know, talking into the microphone. "Wait, nobody can hear me right now, right? No, no, no, no, no."

00:00:21 ◼   ► You know, actually what Marco does is he plays music. And I, you know, logged into ATP.fm/live

00:00:26 ◼   ► and put on my speakers and let it play for a few moments.

00:00:30 ◼   ► And I have to concede that actually whatever you were playing didn't sound bad.

00:00:32 ◼   ► This was about five, 10 minutes ago.

00:00:34 ◼   ► And he listens for a beat.

00:00:36 ◼   ► This sounds like Dave Matthews.

00:00:38 ◼   ► Yes!

00:00:40 ◼   ► Yeah, now in the defense of Marco, when I do play, and especially lately I've been on a bit of a kick,

00:00:46 ◼   ► and "Oh yeah, when were you not on a kick? Haha!"

00:00:48 ◼   ► No, genuinely, I don't listen to that much Dave Matthews, except lately I kind of have been.

00:00:53 ◼   ► So in the defense of Marco, when all he hears is Dave Matthews,

00:00:56 ◼   ► I'm sure everything sounds like Dave Matthews, but he said that completely on his own of his own volition

00:01:01 ◼   ► And I'm not sure I've ever loved my son more than I did that one moment. I

00:01:04 ◼   ► Just wanted to share that with the group. Well, I'll tell you what, so so, you know

00:01:08 ◼   ► I'm not even gonna touch that because it's adorable

00:01:11 ◼   ► But so, you know, there's there's new fish out from from a recent Mexico series of shows. Mm-hmm

00:01:18 ◼   ► I have had one of the most productive weeks I've had in months

00:01:23 ◼   ► Like I've just been going through these shows on repeat.

00:01:27 ◼   ► - A fish-powered month.

00:01:29 ◼   ► - I even sent in a bug report to Fish about,

00:01:31 ◼   ► 'cause they had like what I think is a mix error,

00:01:33 ◼   ► where like in the middle of a song,

00:01:36 ◼   ► they panned Trey's guitar a little bit to the left of center

00:01:40 ◼   ► and then it stayed that way the whole rest of the tour.

00:01:43 ◼   ► So I emailed them like, "Hey, I think this was a mistake.

00:01:47 ◼   ► "If you happen to ever adjust that mix, let me know."

00:01:50 ◼   ► - And did that go into Dev null,

00:01:52 ◼   ► just like Feedback Assistant does?

00:01:53 ◼   ► - No, it's been escalated to the audio team

00:01:55 ◼   ► and we'll see if we hear back.

00:01:57 ◼   ► But this is-- - Whoa, whoa, stop.

00:01:58 ◼   ► - This is, hold on. - Hold on.

00:01:59 ◼   ► - This is the second mix bug report I've filed with them

00:02:03 ◼   ► and they fixed the first one about six months ago.

00:02:06 ◼   ► - I'm blue screening over here.

00:02:08 ◼   ► You're saying that you filed a report,

00:02:11 ◼   ► a bug report of some sort.

00:02:13 ◼   ► - To a band. - And a human,

00:02:14 ◼   ► and a human looked at it and acknowledged it?

00:02:18 ◼   ► I'm not even talking about fixing it.

00:02:19 ◼   ► You're saying there exists a bug reporting system

00:02:23 ◼   ► wherein you get a response,

00:02:26 ◼   ► even if the response is screw you, no way.

00:02:28 ◼   ► You got a response?

00:02:30 ◼   ► Impossible, I can't believe it.

00:02:32 ◼   ► - Meanwhile, I have this huge bug

00:02:34 ◼   ► that's killing me on iOS 16.4 betas.

00:02:38 ◼   ► iOS audio app developers are probably familiar

00:02:40 ◼   ► with the audio services were reset notification.

00:02:44 ◼   ► There's a notification you can subscribe to in the SDK

00:02:48 ◼   ► to tell your app when quote,

00:02:50 ◼   ► the audio services have been reset.

00:02:52 ◼   ► And you're supposed to like,

00:02:53 ◼   ► if you created any audio objects in your app,

00:02:55 ◼   ► you gotta like recreate them at that point.

00:02:58 ◼   ► Reset it all up.

00:02:59 ◼   ► If you use audio graphs, reset that up.

00:03:00 ◼   ► If you use audio engine, reset that up.

00:03:02 ◼   ► Now what this really I think means is a process crashed.

00:03:06 ◼   ► Like some system process for dealing with audio,

00:03:08 ◼   ► core audio D, whatever, some process has crashed.

00:03:11 ◼   ► What this has resulted in is the 16.4 betas

00:03:15 ◼   ► Overcast, almost every time it crosses a podcast boundary,

00:03:19 ◼   ► like if you're between episodes,

00:03:20 ◼   ► and so it recreates the audio engine,

00:03:22 ◼   ► it crashes that background process.

00:03:25 ◼   ► I get usually two or three of those services

00:03:28 ◼   ► where we set notifications in a row,

00:03:30 ◼   ► and playback stops until you go over and hit play again.

00:03:33 ◼   ► And I filed a bug report, like at least one beta ago,

00:03:37 ◼   ► and nothing, no response, no marked as duplicate,

00:03:42 ◼   ► no just sitting there wide open.

00:03:44 ◼   ► - Same as it ever was.

00:03:45 ◼   ► - And my bug report, I had a cyst diagnosed,

00:03:47 ◼   ► I had the logs from Overcache showing the exact moment

00:03:50 ◼   ► that they should be looking in the cyst diagnosed

00:03:51 ◼   ► for what exactly happened.

00:03:52 ◼   ► - Oh, see, you've done everything they've asked for

00:03:55 ◼   ► except perhaps a sample app,

00:03:56 ◼   ► and I'm sure they must have told you

00:04:00 ◼   ► how appreciative they are of all the details

00:04:02 ◼   ► that you've provided in this bug report.

00:04:04 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:04:06 ◼   ► - Oh, God, you know, I hope at some point in the future,

00:04:10 ◼   ► you know, if you look at like, you know,

00:04:11 ◼   ► the boring, boring stuff that like, you know,

00:04:13 ◼   ► Whenever you ask people, what do you want of Apple

00:04:16 ◼   ► in the future, everyone's like, oh, I want a VR headset,

00:04:17 ◼   ► I want a car, you know.

00:04:19 ◼   ► What I want is much more boring stuff like,

00:04:22 ◼   ► make Siri better, that's like number one.

00:04:25 ◼   ► And number two, hey, maybe fix the developer story

00:04:28 ◼   ► in ways that you actually can and might.

00:04:30 ◼   ► Like, you know, obviously, they're never gonna get rid

00:04:32 ◼   ► of the 30% cut, you know, there's gonna be some kind

00:04:35 ◼   ► of app store cut that's big for a long time

00:04:36 ◼   ► and they're gonna require IAP as long as they possibly can,

00:04:39 ◼   ► which is probably forever in practice in most places.

00:04:42 ◼   ► But, you know, documentation, that'd be great.

00:04:47 ◼   ► And man, it would do wonders for developer relations

00:04:49 ◼   ► if radar/feedback was better.

00:04:52 ◼   ► Like if it was actually a functioning system

00:04:55 ◼   ► where like we could file bug reports

00:04:58 ◼   ► and they would get seen in a timely manner

00:05:00 ◼   ► and responded to in a useful way

00:05:02 ◼   ► that wasn't just seemingly some bulk process

00:05:05 ◼   ► trying to close as many bugs as possible.

00:05:07 ◼   ► - Yeah, that is a fantasy world that I will surely never see.

00:05:12 ◼   ► I can't fathom it.

00:05:13 ◼   ► - What do you think comes first, self-driving cars?

00:05:15 ◼   ► Or that?

00:05:17 ◼   ► - Oh, self-driving cars, full stop.

00:05:19 ◼   ► I bet Tesla will ship their full self-driving

00:05:22 ◼   ► before Apple gets any better developer story

00:05:24 ◼   ► around Feedback Assistant.

00:05:26 ◼   ► Oh God, I can't even.

00:05:28 ◼   ► - That's grim.

00:05:28 ◼   ► - As the last host of this podcast to catch COVID,

00:05:33 ◼   ► I've sort of been playing catch up with you two

00:05:35 ◼   ► when it comes to infectious diseases.

00:05:38 ◼   ► - Oh no, this is not good.

00:05:39 ◼   ► Tonight I'd like to close the gap a little further by recording my second podcast episode

00:05:45 ◼   ► while COVID positive, presumably tying the record held by Marco.

00:05:48 ◼   ► What?

00:05:49 ◼   ► I got the rebound, baby!

00:05:50 ◼   ► You took the Pax Loved and got the rebound.

00:05:52 ◼   ► I got the rebound, although there is some debate whether Pax Loved gives you more rebound

00:05:55 ◼   ► than nothing because you can get rebounded without taking Pax Loved.

00:05:59 ◼   ► But regardless, whatever the cause is, I got it, baby.

00:06:01 ◼   ► I've been trapped in my room and I'm going stir crazy.

00:06:03 ◼   ► Oh my god.

00:06:04 ◼   ► I'm sorry, buddy.

00:06:05 ◼   ► I got two days of peace.

00:06:06 ◼   ► I got last Wednesday when we recorded I was negative.

00:06:08 ◼   ► And then the Thursday after that, I was negative,

00:06:10 ◼   ► and I was out of my house, and I did a bunch of stuff

00:06:12 ◼   ► that we'll talk about later in the podcast if we get to it.

00:06:14 ◼   ► And then Friday, I went back into my room,

00:06:16 ◼   ► and I've been there since, and it sucks.

00:06:17 ◼   ► - I mean, you're probably, I mean, I'm not an expert,

00:06:20 ◼   ► but I would assume you're probably not contagious

00:06:22 ◼   ► at this point, but I don't know.

00:06:24 ◼   ► - No, you're contagious during rebound.

00:06:26 ◼   ► - Oh, man.

00:06:27 ◼   ► - You just do the same thing again, same,

00:06:29 ◼   ► the rules for it are the same as the first infection,

00:06:31 ◼   ► you isolate, blah, blah, blah.

00:06:32 ◼   ► I mean, the good thing is my symptoms haven't been as bad.

00:06:34 ◼   ► Like, I didn't really have a fever at all,

00:06:36 ◼   ► except for maybe the first day a tiny one,

00:06:37 ◼   ► and it's just mostly men who still have a nose,

00:06:39 ◼   ► I'm just sick of being trapped in my room.

00:06:41 ◼   ► - Yeah, of course.

00:06:42 ◼   ► - So what prompted you to test again?

00:06:44 ◼   ► You were feeling crummy?

00:06:45 ◼   ► - Oh yeah, I thought on Friday I felt bad.

00:06:47 ◼   ► I'm like, you know what, I was feeling better

00:06:48 ◼   ► and I had two days of negative, but on Friday I felt worse.

00:06:51 ◼   ► I felt not as bad as I did at the beginning,

00:06:53 ◼   ► but I felt like, oh, headachy and kind of weird.

00:06:55 ◼   ► I knew the feeling, I was like, this doesn't feel good.

00:06:57 ◼   ► So I tested again and positive,

00:06:59 ◼   ► and then I've been testing after that to see,

00:07:01 ◼   ► oh, well, maybe the rebound will go away quickly.

00:07:02 ◼   ► Nope, I was like super duper positive,

00:07:04 ◼   ► like more positive than I was in the beginning.

00:07:07 ◼   ► You know, so anyway, but I've just mostly been stuck

00:07:09 ◼   ► with Snuffinos and in fact, today is the first day

00:07:11 ◼   ► that my symptoms, I feel like, have gotten better.

00:07:13 ◼   ► I have, as judged by the number of tissues

00:07:15 ◼   ► in my garbage can, I think I'm definitely on the mend,

00:07:19 ◼   ► so tomorrow I'm gonna, you know, hopefully,

00:07:22 ◼   ► hopefully I'll see the line fading on my test,

00:07:24 ◼   ► but if you wanna see what rebound looks like,

00:07:26 ◼   ► I'll put it in the slack so you can see.

00:07:28 ◼   ► These are not consecutive days,

00:07:30 ◼   ► but there are multi-day gaps between here,

00:07:32 ◼   ► but that's what rebound looks like, it's great.

00:07:34 ◼   ► - Oh my god. - Oh my!

00:07:36 ◼   ► So I'm looking at one, two, three, four, five, six, seven,

00:07:38 ◼   ► eight, nine tests.

00:07:39 ◼   ► - I love that you lined these all up,

00:07:41 ◼   ► that you kept them all.

00:07:42 ◼   ► And you lined them all up.

00:07:44 ◼   ► - Was it in my room?

00:07:45 ◼   ► What else do I have to do?

00:07:46 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:07:46 ◼   ► - So I'm looking at these nine tests

00:07:49 ◼   ► going from left to right.

00:07:50 ◼   ► It's very red.

00:07:51 ◼   ► And then actually, even just the second one

00:07:53 ◼   ► is kind of pinkish.

00:07:55 ◼   ► - Yeah, there's a big gap between them.

00:07:56 ◼   ► So the first one was my first infection,

00:07:58 ◼   ► and then obviously I didn't bother testing for a while,

00:07:59 ◼   ► 'cause you know you've got it, what's the point?

00:08:01 ◼   ► So there's a big gap between those first two.

00:08:04 ◼   ► - Okay, so then it gets weaker and weaker over time.

00:08:07 ◼   ► I would say one, two, three, four.

00:08:08 ◼   ► The fifth one, if there's something there,

00:08:11 ◼   ► I can barely see it.

00:08:12 ◼   ► - That's my first negative.

00:08:13 ◼   ► - Okay, so then six, also negative.

00:08:15 ◼   ► Seven, looking pretty positive. - That's Friday.

00:08:18 ◼   ► - And eight is like, "Oh baby, I'm back

00:08:21 ◼   ► "and better than ever!"

00:08:22 ◼   ► - That was Friday, and then that's Saturday,

00:08:24 ◼   ► and I think that's Monday or Tuesday.

00:08:27 ◼   ► It just, yeah.

00:08:28 ◼   ► - Oh my God. - Oh yeah, I'm sorry, John.

00:08:30 ◼   ► That stinks.

00:08:30 ◼   ► - Man, I had two years between my infections.

00:08:32 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:08:33 ◼   ► This is still the same infection. I feel like probably the two negatives were just like,

00:08:38 ◼   ► Pax Lova just wiped it out or whatever, but it was like there was one left in the corner somewhere,

00:08:42 ◼   ► and it's like, you know what? I'm coming back.

00:08:43 ◼   ► If it makes you feel better, some very good friends of ours. The husband and wife team of

00:08:49 ◼   ► the family, they got COVID. This was maybe a month or so ago, and they did take Pax Lova. And I don't

00:08:55 ◼   ► recall if the wife rebounded, but I know that the husband absolutely did. And so he was feeling like

00:09:02 ◼   ► like garbage, took Paxilovid, complained incessantly about how bad it tasted, which from what I

00:09:06 ◼   ► gather from what you've said is completely justified. And then as he's starting to feel

00:09:11 ◼   ► better he starts to come out of his hidey hole and then, oh, never mind, I'm back. Same

00:09:15 ◼   ► story.

00:09:16 ◼   ► I would still take it again though, because my symptoms weren't getting better. And it

00:09:19 ◼   ► was like, I cannot, my brain cannot be boiling in my skull any longer. So I'm very thankful

00:09:23 ◼   ► that it took away. And also there's some, it is possible that taking Paxilovid can help

00:09:29 ◼   ► have reduced the risk of long COVID as well.

00:09:31 ◼   ► I don't think there's anything conclusive on that,

00:09:32 ◼   ► but there's some promising studies pointing

00:09:34 ◼   ► in that direction.

00:09:35 ◼   ► But just for the symptom relief alone,

00:09:37 ◼   ► I was glad to take it and glad to have it.

00:09:39 ◼   ► But yeah, rebound sucks.

00:09:40 ◼   ► But hopefully, I mean, by my past schedule,

00:09:43 ◼   ► it took me basically a week to go from positive to negative.

00:09:45 ◼   ► So I figured rebound is probably gonna be similar.

00:09:47 ◼   ► So I'll probably be negative by Friday

00:09:49 ◼   ► and then I'll be out of this ridiculous situation.

00:09:52 ◼   ► - Ugh, I'm sorry.

00:09:54 ◼   ► That is stinky.

00:09:55 ◼   ► - And am I right that ties the record?

00:09:56 ◼   ► 'Cause Marco definitely recorded at least one episode

00:09:59 ◼   ► with COVID and so did you Casey,

00:10:01 ◼   ► but I don't know if Marco got two of them, maybe he did.

00:10:03 ◼   ► - No, I thought you did Marco, didn't you?

00:10:04 ◼   ► - Oh yeah, I definitely did.

00:10:05 ◼   ► - Did you have three?

00:10:06 ◼   ► - Well, it depends on how you define an episode with it.

00:10:10 ◼   ► You know, like my first, I mean the first time I had it,

00:10:12 ◼   ► it lasted like nine days.

00:10:14 ◼   ► So I would have done two episodes, but yeah,

00:10:17 ◼   ► it was, it's not fun.

00:10:19 ◼   ► - You know what'll cheer you up, Jon?

00:10:20 ◼   ► What'll cheer you up is some follow-up

00:10:21 ◼   ► and we have all kinds of follow-up

00:10:24 ◼   ► with regard to the screen time and shoulder surfing stuff.

00:10:28 ◼   ► So we were told that the Screen Time passcode

00:10:33 ◼   ► doesn't actually protect against iPhone takeovers

00:10:36 ◼   ► like we thought it did last week.

00:10:38 ◼   ► So we gave you some crummy advice and I'm sorry about that.

00:10:41 ◼   ► Multi Greg writes,

00:10:42 ◼   ► "I set a screen time restriction with a passcode

00:10:45 ◼   ► without the option to remove it using the Apple ID."

00:10:47 ◼   ► You know, I tapped cancel and hit skip.

00:10:50 ◼   ► "When I try the forgot passcode link,

00:10:52 ◼   ► it still guides me through the options

00:10:53 ◼   ► to enter my Apple ID or device password

00:10:55 ◼   ► or find a forgotten Apple ID."

00:10:56 ◼   ► Whoopsie doopsie.

00:10:57 ◼   ► And also, just FYI, this is us talking,

00:11:00 ◼   ► disallowing account changes in screen time

00:11:02 ◼   ► also grays out the entire Apple ID item in settings,

00:11:05 ◼   ► which is undesirable as well.

00:11:07 ◼   ► - Well, it's not necessarily undesirable,

00:11:09 ◼   ► but it's confusing.

00:11:09 ◼   ► I notice that, and I'm like, what the hell?

00:11:11 ◼   ► Why can't I go into my Apple ID?

00:11:12 ◼   ► Why is this grayed out?

00:11:13 ◼   ► I mean, you tap it, nothing happens.

00:11:14 ◼   ► So you're like, is my phone broken?

00:11:16 ◼   ► Do I need to force quit settings or whatever?

00:11:18 ◼   ► Then you remember, oh, I disabled that in screen time.

00:11:20 ◼   ► But yeah, I would blame Apple for this,

00:11:22 ◼   ► because the UI explicitly says,

00:11:24 ◼   ► hey, do you want to allow your screen time passcode

00:11:26 ◼   ► to be reset with your Apple ID.

00:11:28 ◼   ► And when you hit cancel, it says,

00:11:29 ◼   ► are you sure you wanna skip this?

00:11:30 ◼   ► You won't be able to reset your screen time password

00:11:32 ◼   ► with your Apple ID.

00:11:34 ◼   ► And you say, yeah, totally skip.

00:11:35 ◼   ► And then it's like, no, you can still reset it

00:11:36 ◼   ► with your Apple ID.

00:11:37 ◼   ► Like what's the point of that UI?

00:11:39 ◼   ► And I tried it multiple times and confirmed.

00:11:42 ◼   ► Even though you say cancel and you confirm

00:11:45 ◼   ► that yes, you wanna skip it, you don't wanna reset it,

00:11:47 ◼   ► you can still reset it with your Apple ID.

00:11:48 ◼   ► So the mitigation that we said last time,

00:11:50 ◼   ► that specific one about the screen time password,

00:11:53 ◼   ► if you did that on your phone, just remove it

00:11:55 ◼   ► 'cause it's not actually helping.

00:11:56 ◼   ► I mean, well, I don't know if you wanna remove it

00:11:57 ◼   ► because it will slow them down.

00:11:59 ◼   ► It will slow down the thief a little bit

00:12:00 ◼   ► 'cause now they have to go through the forgot password flow

00:12:02 ◼   ► which is kind of annoying and you know.

00:12:04 ◼   ► So it's a speed bump, a tiny speed bump,

00:12:07 ◼   ► but that's about it.

00:12:08 ◼   ► And I'm kind of annoyed that it doesn't work.

00:12:10 ◼   ► - Well, and it might be like, you know,

00:12:11 ◼   ► a little bit of security, of obscurity

00:12:13 ◼   ► in the sense that like they might not realize

00:12:15 ◼   ► why the giant bar of your account on top is grayed out

00:12:18 ◼   ► 'cause again, it doesn't tell you.

00:12:19 ◼   ► - Yeah, yeah, yeah. - Well, that's an interesting

00:12:20 ◼   ► point, mm-hmm. - You know, but yeah,

00:12:21 ◼   ► it's still not as good as just having

00:12:23 ◼   ► a really good passphrase that you never actually enter

00:12:26 ◼   ► with people watching.

00:12:27 ◼   ► - Yeah, but I just wanted to tell people right up front,

00:12:29 ◼   ► like if you took our advice last week,

00:12:31 ◼   ► be aware that does not actually actually protect you.

00:12:34 ◼   ► It is either a speed bump or security

00:12:36 ◼   ► through obscurity at best.

00:12:37 ◼   ► - Yeah, it will not slow down a sophisticated attack, right?

00:12:41 ◼   ► - Sigh.

00:12:42 ◼   ► All right, Eric Smets writes,

00:12:43 ◼   ► I made an extra, oh, I'm sorry,

00:12:45 ◼   ► this is with regard to protecting your iCloud photos

00:12:48 ◼   ► from an Apple ID takeover.

00:12:49 ◼   ► Eric writes, I made an extra fake family member

00:12:52 ◼   ► with a separate Apple ID,

00:12:53 ◼   ► and I added them to the iCloud shared library.

00:12:55 ◼   ► This way I can always use this Apple ID

00:12:57 ◼   ► to retrieve all the important shared pictures.

00:12:59 ◼   ► The only requirement is that you have room

00:13:00 ◼   ► for an extra person in your shared library.

00:13:03 ◼   ► And I strongly recommend not saving the password

00:13:05 ◼   ► for this new Apple ID in iCloud Keychain.

00:13:07 ◼   ► I don't think that this is necessarily something

00:13:09 ◼   ► that I am going to do, but it's a very clever approach,

00:13:12 ◼   ► and I see no particular problems with it,

00:13:14 ◼   ► and it was worth sharing.

00:13:16 ◼   ► - The most relevant piece of information here is that,

00:13:18 ◼   ► you know, if you have an actual family member,

00:13:20 ◼   ► iCloud shared library gives more than one person access to presumably your shared pool

00:13:25 ◼   ► of photos that you care about.

00:13:26 ◼   ► So if someone steals your iPhone, takes over your Apple ID and changes the password and

00:13:30 ◼   ► totally locks you out, you never get that Apple ID back, someone else has a copy of

00:13:36 ◼   ► those photos in a live Apple ID that still works.

00:13:39 ◼   ► I don't know how this works but in terms of like, well, who was the one who initially

00:13:42 ◼   ► shared the photo library?

00:13:44 ◼   ► Like my wife is the iCloud photo library owner and she created the shared library and shared

00:13:48 ◼   ► it with me or whatever.

00:13:49 ◼   ► So does it make a difference if her Apple ID is taken over or if mine is?

00:13:53 ◼   ► Either way, this is just another form of, probably a weaker form of backup.

00:13:58 ◼   ► It's something that I think people are doing.

00:13:59 ◼   ► If you have shared an iCloud shared library and you put most of your photos in it, you're

00:14:03 ◼   ► kind of getting a secondary backup just by doing that because someone's got the photos

00:14:07 ◼   ► on their phone and their device and stuff like that.

00:14:09 ◼   ► It's not as good as a real backup because a real backup you would take care, take all

00:14:14 ◼   ► the photos and make sure you downloaded them all and save them somewhere that is disconnected

00:14:17 ◼   ► from your Apple ID and all that good stuff.

00:14:19 ◼   ► So backups are still the solution,

00:14:20 ◼   ► but having someone else in the iCloud shared library

00:14:25 ◼   ► is a good way to have separate copies

00:14:27 ◼   ► of those photos accessible by an Apple ID

00:14:29 ◼   ► that may still be live if only one of your Apple IDs

00:14:31 ◼   ► gets taken over.

00:14:32 ◼   ► - Pete Fernandez writes, "If my memory is not betraying me,

00:14:35 ◼   ► "I think in the very first version of iPhone OS,

00:14:37 ◼   ► "you could set up a password for settings,

00:14:39 ◼   ► "kind of like a root password.

00:14:41 ◼   ► "I think Apple should give us that option.

00:14:42 ◼   ► "I have zero recollection of this,

00:14:44 ◼   ► "but that does not mean it is not true."

00:14:46 ◼   ► - Yeah, I tried to look that up.

00:14:47 ◼   ► I had a vague memory of it,

00:14:48 ◼   ► but I couldn't really confirm.

00:14:50 ◼   ► Do you remember this, Marco?

00:14:51 ◼   ► Could you set a passcode on the settings app?

00:14:52 ◼   ► - You might have been able to,

00:14:53 ◼   ► but I don't remember this at all.

00:14:55 ◼   ► - Yeah, absolutely, I don't either.

00:14:56 ◼   ► - Yeah, it's difficult to say.

00:14:58 ◼   ► Someone should find one of those,

00:14:59 ◼   ► like you have all these websites,

00:15:01 ◼   ► like system7.app or whatever the hell the thing is,

00:15:03 ◼   ► where you can just run old Mac OS

00:15:04 ◼   ► and JavaScript in a browser.

00:15:05 ◼   ► An original iPhone version of that

00:15:08 ◼   ► that runs the original version of iPhone OS

00:15:10 ◼   ► with a web assembly or something,

00:15:11 ◼   ► it would be a cool thing to have,

00:15:12 ◼   ► and I'm sure it will turn up in a few years.

00:15:15 ◼   ► Then we'll find out.

00:15:16 ◼   ► - Right.

00:15:17 ◼   ► KF Waller writes, "There's a third option besides a short convenient numeric passcode

00:15:21 ◼   ► and a long alphanumeric passcode.

00:15:24 ◼   ► That option is a long numeric passcode.

00:15:26 ◼   ► This has the advantage of easy numeric keypad but has an indeterminate number of digits.

00:15:31 ◼   ► A 10-digit or 20-digit number is a good compromise for some.

00:15:34 ◼   ► For older people, you can tell them to use a childhood phone number or even two phone

00:15:37 ◼   ► numbers combined."

00:15:38 ◼   ► I didn't even know this was possible.

00:15:40 ◼   ► It is somewhat undocumented that if you choose an unlock code but set it to only numbers,

00:15:45 ◼   ► than eight or so digits, you get a numeric keypad for entry

00:15:48 ◼   ► instead of the normal keyboard.

00:15:50 ◼   ► Again, I had no idea.

00:15:51 ◼   ► - Yeah, I've never seen this.

00:15:52 ◼   ► - Someone claimed that they heard about this

00:15:54 ◼   ► by listening to ADP, so that is possible,

00:15:56 ◼   ► and all three of us just forgot about it, but anyway.

00:15:58 ◼   ► - I don't think so.

00:15:59 ◼   ► I think people might have heard from us

00:16:01 ◼   ► that you can set a password-style passcode,

00:16:04 ◼   ► not just numbers, 'cause we've talked about that before,

00:16:07 ◼   ► but I did not know that if you go through that process,

00:16:10 ◼   ► set a custom password and only use numbers,

00:16:15 ◼   ► then it shows you the number pad for input

00:16:18 ◼   ► and just kind of like a text box above it.

00:16:20 ◼   ► So instead of having like the four or six dots

00:16:23 ◼   ► so that to see how many characters you need to fill in,

00:16:25 ◼   ► it just has a text field.

00:16:27 ◼   ► So if somebody gets your phone

00:16:29 ◼   ► and has not seen you enter the password,

00:16:31 ◼   ► they don't know even how long it is,

00:16:33 ◼   ► which is one of the benefits of the password to begin with.

00:16:37 ◼   ► But if it's just numbers,

00:16:39 ◼   ► you get the advantage of easy, large number pad entrance.

00:16:43 ◼   ► - Which also makes it easier to shoulder surf, obviously.

00:16:45 ◼   ► - It does.

00:16:46 ◼   ► - I know making it longer is better,

00:16:47 ◼   ► but telling which of the numbers you hit on the numpad

00:16:51 ◼   ► is way easier than telling which of the tiny keyboard things

00:16:54 ◼   ► you hit on the keyboard.

00:16:55 ◼   ► But even though they have the pop-up thing

00:16:56 ◼   ► that goes above it, it's, you know.

00:16:58 ◼   ► Anyway, it's all trade-offs,

00:17:00 ◼   ► so just to put this on the table,

00:17:01 ◼   ► this is one more option for you to try.

00:17:03 ◼   ► If you know you'll never be able to force yourself

00:17:06 ◼   ► to use that tiny little QWERTY keyboard to type things in,

00:17:09 ◼   ► but you can use a numeric one, try a phone number

00:17:13 ◼   ► or something like that, something longer

00:17:14 ◼   ► that you'll remember.

00:17:16 ◼   ► - Indeed.

00:17:17 ◼   ► John, tell me about what the latest scam is

00:17:20 ◼   ► in the App Store, please.

00:17:21 ◼   ► - Yeah, this is related to actually a Twitter thing

00:17:23 ◼   ► when Twitter was getting rid of SMS,

00:17:25 ◼   ► or I don't know if they ever actually did this.

00:17:26 ◼   ► They say all sorts of things,

00:17:27 ◼   ► and I can't keep track of which things they actually did

00:17:29 ◼   ► that they said they were not.

00:17:30 ◼   ► At one point, they were saying,

00:17:31 ◼   ► "Oh, if you wanted to use SMS for two-factor authentication,

00:17:35 ◼   ► you have to pay us money because it's insecure and only the people who pay can use the insecure

00:17:39 ◼   ► or whatever.

00:17:40 ◼   ► They're a very confused company.

00:17:41 ◼   ► Anyway, once they said that, there was a kind of a run on the app store of like everyone

00:17:45 ◼   ► trying to download authenticator apps like Google Authenticator.

00:17:48 ◼   ► Similarly with this story about Apple ID takeover, it's like, "Oh, if I keep everything in my

00:17:53 ◼   ► Apple ID and keep it all on iCloud keychain, then it's like once they get my phone passcode,

00:17:57 ◼   ► they can get everything.

00:17:58 ◼   ► I should use, you know, insert application here, whether it's 1Password or Google Authenticator

00:18:02 ◼   ► for my two-factor things, or like just some other app,

00:18:05 ◼   ► some other third-party app with its own password,

00:18:08 ◼   ► passkey, you know, one password has its obvious one password,

00:18:12 ◼   ► and authenticator apps can have their own passwords

00:18:13 ◼   ► and passcodes to get into them and stuff.

00:18:15 ◼   ► So that if someone does shoulder surf your phone unlock,

00:18:18 ◼   ► then they get to your phone, they still won't be able

00:18:21 ◼   ► to get to your passwords or your two-factor,

00:18:22 ◼   ► unless they know how to get into those third-party apps.

00:18:25 ◼   ► So that was sending people to the App Store as well to say,

00:18:27 ◼   ► "Hey, I want an authenticator app.

00:18:29 ◼   ► I need to, you know, I'm gonna go see what's available

00:18:32 ◼   ► on the App Store, because I know I want something that, you know, either stores

00:18:36 ◼   ► passwords or stores two-factor codes or whatever, and misc wrote in to say, "Many

00:18:41 ◼   ► iPhone users are asking us to recommend safe authenticator apps." Well, the App

00:18:45 ◼   ► Store is making it useless to recommend any app. No matter what app you search

00:18:48 ◼   ► for, the top hit is almost always an ad for some scam app. So you can't even say,

00:18:52 ◼   ► "Hey, go to the App Store and check out Authy," because people will type in

00:18:56 ◼   ► "Authy" and the first hit will be an ad that's very enticing and it looks like

00:18:59 ◼   ► it's vaguely authy related to people hit it it's actually a scam and you know you

00:19:03 ◼   ► would think Apple would be there knocking down all the scam apps but the

00:19:06 ◼   ► scammers are there ready for their moment like oh there's a flood of people

00:19:10 ◼   ► trying to find authenticator apps now is the time I don't know even know what the

00:19:13 ◼   ► scam is do they steal all your passwords do they do they get you to mine Bitcoin

00:19:17 ◼   ► I don't even know what the scam is but the scam it's just it's another

00:19:20 ◼   ► disappointing example of like when people are in need they're like go to

00:19:24 ◼   ► the App Store the one safe trusted place for you to find all your apps and you

00:19:27 ◼   ► have a goal in mind, even if you know the name of the app,

00:19:30 ◼   ► someone recommended an app to you.

00:19:32 ◼   ► This person's saying, we've just given up recommending apps

00:19:34 ◼   ► 'cause we know they'll go to the app store,

00:19:36 ◼   ► type in that word, hit search,

00:19:38 ◼   ► and then see an ad search result

00:19:39 ◼   ► that they don't realize an ad and think,

00:19:40 ◼   ► oh, the top hit, that's gotta be it,

00:19:42 ◼   ► and go get it, and it's not.

00:19:43 ◼   ► - What a shame.

00:19:44 ◼   ► - App store, bad show.

00:19:45 ◼   ► - Yeah, it's like, does anybody besides Apple believe,

00:19:50 ◼   ► like, oh, this is a great, safe place, like,

00:19:52 ◼   ► so, I, you know, look, I like Apple in general,

00:19:56 ◼   ► I think that's been proven over the years.

00:19:59 ◼   ► But man, that App Store is such a sad state of affairs

00:20:02 ◼   ► and it could be so much better.

00:20:03 ◼   ► And it's a good thing Netflix can't tell people

00:20:06 ◼   ► to go sign up on their website,

00:20:08 ◼   ► because that's protecting them against all these scams.

00:20:11 ◼   ► I mean, knowing what I know about the security

00:20:14 ◼   ► of the iPhone and everything else,

00:20:16 ◼   ► I don't even trust the App Store.

00:20:17 ◼   ► The good side of the trust there is that I know that,

00:20:22 ◼   ► worst case scenario, I can always delete the app.

00:20:25 ◼   ► And unlike, you know, on the Mac, this is not the case,

00:20:28 ◼   ► on the iPhone, I know that if I download an app

00:20:30 ◼   ► from the App Store and then I later delete it,

00:20:32 ◼   ► I know that it's gone.

00:20:34 ◼   ► You know, that there's no trace of it left.

00:20:36 ◼   ► So I am, you know, more willing to try things

00:20:39 ◼   ► and it is more secure than, say, a Mac in that way.

00:20:43 ◼   ► But as far as like what happens in the app,

00:20:46 ◼   ► I don't trust that at all.

00:20:48 ◼   ► Because the history of the App Store has been just a slew

00:20:52 ◼   ► of horrendously spying, tracking, misleading,

00:20:57 ◼   ► crappy subscription scam apps

00:20:59 ◼   ► and they don't do what they say they will,

00:21:00 ◼   ► they don't work, they crash, they show a bunch of ads,

00:21:03 ◼   ► they interrupt you constantly,

00:21:05 ◼   ► they railroad you into a payment sheet

00:21:07 ◼   ► that they hope you'll double click on or whatever.

00:21:09 ◼   ► There's so many crappy apps that I get from the app store.

00:21:14 ◼   ► Anytime I try to do anything that requires me

00:21:16 ◼   ► to download a new app,

00:21:17 ◼   ► I know I'm gonna run into a whole bunch of crap

00:21:19 ◼   ► And it's just a shame.

00:21:22 ◼   ► - Here's an analogy for the old people,

00:21:24 ◼   ► speaking of phone numbers, the analogy is like,

00:21:27 ◼   ► you know, you just have the app store,

00:21:28 ◼   ► like I download an app, I can easily delete it,

00:21:30 ◼   ► I'm sure that it's not destroying my phone

00:21:31 ◼   ► or it can't like steal my contacts out from under me

00:21:33 ◼   ► 'cause it has to ask permission,

00:21:34 ◼   ► it's like that's the type of assurances you have.

00:21:36 ◼   ► It's like saying with the phone system,

00:21:38 ◼   ► I can be assured that the phone lines are secure,

00:21:41 ◼   ► people aren't tapping into them

00:21:42 ◼   ► because you have to get a warrant

00:21:43 ◼   ► and if someone does tap into it, it's a federal crime

00:21:46 ◼   ► and it was all, or you know, or the US mail

00:21:48 ◼   ► or any of these type of sort of older transport mechanisms

00:21:51 ◼   ► where we have laws and strictures around them

00:21:53 ◼   ► that make them fairly secure and safe

00:21:55 ◼   ► with very onerous penalties for people

00:21:57 ◼   ► who go against that, right?

00:21:59 ◼   ► Not the newer ones, but the older ones,

00:22:01 ◼   ► when we could still pass laws like that.

00:22:03 ◼   ► As like, so that means there'll never be any fraud

00:22:06 ◼   ► over the telephone line or the mail system, will there?

00:22:09 ◼   ► Well, the telephone line is secure,

00:22:11 ◼   ► but telemarketers still call up old people

00:22:14 ◼   ► and get them to reverse mortgage their house and stuff.

00:22:16 ◼   ► So the app store, yes, the installation process is secure

00:22:20 ◼   ► and it's not gonna screw up, like the line is secure, right?

00:22:23 ◼   ► That is as safeguarded as it can be.

00:22:26 ◼   ► One company controls it, it's like back in the old AT&T days,

00:22:28 ◼   ► one company controls it, you have to buy a phone from them,

00:22:30 ◼   ► ha, you actually do have to buy a phone from Apple,

00:22:32 ◼   ► isn't it, see that? (laughing)

00:22:34 ◼   ► And everything's secure in that line.

00:22:36 ◼   ► But then someone calls you up and talks you into,

00:22:38 ◼   ► you know, doing a reverse mortgage on your house

00:22:39 ◼   ► or gets you, gives you your credit card number or whatever,

00:22:41 ◼   ► and that's exactly what's happening.

00:22:42 ◼   ► Once the app gets on your system and it says,

00:22:44 ◼   ► hey, you should sign up for our thing

00:22:46 ◼   ► and type your credit card number here,

00:22:47 ◼   ► and do it like, how did that get through App Review?

00:22:49 ◼   ► I don't know, how the hell does anything

00:22:51 ◼   ► get through App Review?

00:22:52 ◼   ► Like, the securing of the line and the mechanism

00:22:56 ◼   ► to display the apps is nothing without the securing

00:22:58 ◼   ► of the actual apps that arrive,

00:23:00 ◼   ► and Apple is just not up to that task.

00:23:02 ◼   ► And even if it's a benign scam where it's like,

00:23:04 ◼   ► wasting your time and trying to get you to, you know,

00:23:08 ◼   ► sign up for a $1 a month subscription or something

00:23:11 ◼   ► that you don't know you need,

00:23:12 ◼   ► like, there's all sorts of ways that these applications

00:23:15 ◼   ► and be user hostile while still being within the letter of the law.

00:23:17 ◼   ► And somehow they get through app review,

00:23:20 ◼   ► but Untitled Goose Game gets rejected twice by the Mac App Store,

00:23:22 ◼   ► and then they give up.

00:23:24 ◼   ► - It's so bad. It's so bad.

00:23:25 ◼   ► And, I mean, they're so petulantly refusing to listen to reason

00:23:31 ◼   ► that it sounds like they're going to be forced to.

00:23:33 ◼   ► And, honestly, they deserve it.

00:23:35 ◼   ► We've talked about this many times.

00:23:36 ◼   ► You don't need to believe it again.

00:23:38 ◼   ► Not yet, anyway.

00:23:40 ◼   ► Bob, then, Sho, Skeo?

00:23:42 ◼   ► I'm not sure there. Bob.

00:23:44 ◼   ► Before you go there, do you know the title,

00:23:45 ◼   ► the heading there, this gives you ample opportunity

00:23:47 ◼   ► to get a reference, Casey or Marco.

00:23:48 ◼   ► - This is War Games.

00:23:50 ◼   ► - Thank you, very good.

00:23:51 ◼   ► So this is making up for your missing the net last episode.

00:23:54 ◼   ► - Yeah, oh God, I'm so mad at myself for that,

00:23:56 ◼   ► I genuinely am.

00:23:56 ◼   ► Now in my defense, I haven't seen that movie

00:23:58 ◼   ► in like 20, 30 years, but--

00:24:00 ◼   ► - I got it, I heard Marco get it, and I knew he got it.

00:24:03 ◼   ► We've talked about it before on the show.

00:24:04 ◼   ► - Maybe, I don't know, I issue myself several demerits,

00:24:06 ◼   ► I'm so sorry, I have shamed all of us.

00:24:09 ◼   ► But anyway, the heading in the show notes,

00:24:10 ◼   ► it's a strange game, the only winning move is not to play,

00:24:12 ◼   ► which is War Games.

00:24:13 ◼   ► So anyway, Bob Von S. writes, "This is going to sound bananas, but here it goes.

00:24:18 ◼   ► I have no password, Touch ID, Face ID in my phone.

00:24:22 ◼   ► When Touch ID came out, I could not get it to work consistently, so I turned it off and

00:24:25 ◼   ► never bothered with Face ID.

00:24:26 ◼   ► I live on a farm homestead thing, and so there are many instances where I'm wearing gloves,

00:24:31 ◼   ► some kind of hat, face covering, my hands are wet, dirty, scratched up, etc.

00:24:35 ◼   ► Touch ID never worked beyond two or three days.

00:24:36 ◼   ► I also don't have a passcode because that's just cumbersome with these hand conditions.

00:24:41 ◼   ► That said, there really isn't a lot on my phone that would cause me material harm if

00:24:44 ◼   ► someone got my phone.

00:24:45 ◼   ► I use a small regional bank whose app is basically a web view to their site, so you have to log

00:24:49 ◼   ► in with a username and password.

00:24:51 ◼   ► Otherwise, you can see pictures of my dog, what I listen to in Overcast, and about 10,000

00:24:54 ◼   ► spam emails.

00:24:55 ◼   ► Good for you.

00:24:56 ◼   ► But the point is, when I go into iCloud in Settings and tap Password and Security, I'm

00:25:00 ◼   ► only prompted for my iCloud password.

00:25:03 ◼   ► So if all you've done is stolen my phone, you can't lock me out of my Apple ID without

00:25:06 ◼   ► my iCloud password.

00:25:08 ◼   ► And since there isn't anything particularly interesting

00:25:09 ◼   ► or useful on the phone itself,

00:25:11 ◼   ► you only have a short amount of time to capitalize

00:25:12 ◼   ► on the device by selling it or whatever

00:25:14 ◼   ► because I'm pretty sure I can wipe the phone from my Mac.

00:25:17 ◼   ► So unless I've missed something obvious,

00:25:19 ◼   ► my lack of security has come full circle

00:25:21 ◼   ► where I have ultimate convenience

00:25:22 ◼   ► and minimal exposure to badness.

00:25:24 ◼   ► This horrifies me, but I mean, the logic does add up,

00:25:29 ◼   ► at least on the surface.

00:25:30 ◼   ► - There are some vulnerabilities here,

00:25:31 ◼   ► but the perverse thing is by not having a passcode,

00:25:34 ◼   ► you can't use your passcode to unlock your Apple ID.

00:25:38 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:25:39 ◼   ► Right?

00:25:40 ◼   ► You just can't 'cause there isn't one.

00:25:41 ◼   ► So there's no mechanism for it to say,

00:25:43 ◼   ► hey, I forgot my password to my Apple ID, right?

00:25:46 ◼   ► The bad side is, I think, even if you don't have a passcode,

00:25:49 ◼   ► the I forgot the password to my Apple ID

00:25:52 ◼   ► may find its way through your trusted device of the iPhone

00:25:55 ◼   ► because there are other ways that Apple can prompt you

00:25:57 ◼   ► on your supposedly trusted device of an iPhone to say,

00:26:00 ◼   ► hey, I see you're trying to reset your password.

00:26:02 ◼   ► Is this you?

00:26:03 ◼   ► I know Apple doesn't do the text message thing,

00:26:05 ◼   ► but they have those pop-ups or whatever,

00:26:06 ◼   ► so I'm not 100% willing to endorse this.

00:26:08 ◼   ► - Well, they do have text message fallbacks.

00:26:10 ◼   ► - Yeah, I suppose, because yeah,

00:26:13 ◼   ► if you have a telephone number or whatever.

00:26:15 ◼   ► I don't think this is as maybe as secure as he thinks,

00:26:17 ◼   ► but the other thing that he's doing

00:26:19 ◼   ► is if you don't have anything of value on your phone

00:26:22 ◼   ► when someone gets your phone,

00:26:23 ◼   ► then they don't have anything of value.

00:26:24 ◼   ► That works.

00:26:25 ◼   ► The only winning move is not to play,

00:26:27 ◼   ► hey, don't have anything valuable on your phone,

00:26:29 ◼   ► someone steals your phone, you don't care.

00:26:31 ◼   ► Probably not the best solution,

00:26:32 ◼   ► but I did think it was funny that by literally

00:26:34 ◼   ► not having a passcode at all,

00:26:36 ◼   ► and no biometrics, which I think is silly,

00:26:38 ◼   ► but not having a passcode at all,

00:26:40 ◼   ► as if you're living in like, you know,

00:26:41 ◼   ► 2008 with your iPod touch like me,

00:26:44 ◼   ► where you just slide to unlock.

00:26:45 ◼   ► Yeah, that's one interesting way of looking at it.

00:26:50 ◼   ► I just hope there aren't any,

00:26:51 ◼   ► a lot of iPhone thieves stalking you out there on the farm.

00:26:53 ◼   ► I think you're probably safe.

00:26:55 ◼   ► - I would just like to quickly note

00:26:57 ◼   ► that the only winning move is not to play also war games.

00:26:59 ◼   ► I just want to make sure now

00:27:01 ◼   ► that I get the appropriate credit.

00:27:03 ◼   ► All right, moving on.

00:27:04 ◼   ► The headline for this is "Those Darned Kids,"

00:27:06 ◼   ► which I'm assuming is a Scooby-Doo reference.

00:27:08 ◼   ► Gossel Gold writes, "My son got the screen time pin

00:27:11 ◼   ► "when he handed me his phone over

00:27:13 ◼   ► "so that I could give him more time.

00:27:15 ◼   ► "I made sure that he could not watch me enter the pin,

00:27:18 ◼   ► "except he had started a screen capture

00:27:21 ◼   ► "before giving the phone to me."

00:27:22 ◼   ► This is so good. - Totally owned.

00:27:23 ◼   ► - So good. - This is amazing.

00:27:26 ◼   ► - It makes me so happy.

00:27:27 ◼   ► - There are so many people

00:27:28 ◼   ► giving the same story that they're kids.

00:27:30 ◼   ► I guess this is going around in the kids' circles

00:27:33 ◼   ► of just start a screen recording and ask for more time

00:27:35 ◼   ► and give your parent the device

00:27:37 ◼   ► and then you'll see what they typed in.

00:27:38 ◼   ► 'Cause the screen recording will show

00:27:40 ◼   ► what things highlighted when you hit the numbers or whatever.

00:27:43 ◼   ► - Oh, that's very, very good, very clever.

00:27:45 ◼   ► - That's incredible.

00:27:47 ◼   ► - So many more exploits people have sent us.

00:27:49 ◼   ► The iMessage apps, even if iMessage itself is secure,

00:27:52 ◼   ► like the exploit that my kids were using,

00:27:54 ◼   ► the iMessage apps have ways to get through it.

00:27:56 ◼   ► Someone was saying that if you ask for one more minute time

00:27:59 ◼   ► in three separate apps, there's a bug that just totally

00:28:03 ◼   ► stops all screen time prescriptions.

00:28:05 ◼   ► Like, you don't even have to get it.

00:28:06 ◼   ► Just go to app number one and say one more minute.

00:28:08 ◼   ► Go to app number two, say one more minute.

00:28:09 ◼   ► Go to app number three, say one more minute.

00:28:10 ◼   ► You don't need a parent to approve those things at all.

00:28:13 ◼   ► Just by merely requesting it in three different apps,

00:28:15 ◼   ► then downtime for the phone just goes away.

00:28:19 ◼   ► - That's amazing.

00:28:20 ◼   ► - Oh, Apple.

00:28:22 ◼   ► With regard to ISP bandwidth, and I think it was an Ask ATP

00:28:25 ◼   ► asking, you know, what do you do

00:28:26 ◼   ► with your gigabit connections anyway?

00:28:28 ◼   ► Michael Hansen writes, "One thing that you didn't mention in the discussion about asymmetric

00:28:31 ◼   ► bandwidth, TCP needs the uplink speed for ACMES, or acknowledge packages.

00:28:39 ◼   ► If you saturate your uplink, download speeds will suffer heavily too."

00:28:41 ◼   ► So in other words, the way TCP works, which is the way most of the internet is hung together,

00:28:46 ◼   ► when you download something you need to acknowledge, "Okay, I've got this."

00:28:48 ◼   ► And so what Michael is saying is, if you're downloading something crazy fast, well you

00:28:52 ◼   ► need to send those "yep, I've got it" messages back to where it's coming from.

00:28:56 ◼   ► and it can end up that you have more download bandwidth

00:28:59 ◼   ► to spare, but you're flooding your upstream bandwidth

00:29:02 ◼   ► with yep, got it messages,

00:29:03 ◼   ► and that would be very unfortunate.

00:29:05 ◼   ► - Yeah, this is why, you know, nowadays most routers

00:29:09 ◼   ► that people have in their houses and everything

00:29:11 ◼   ► are a little bit better at dealing with this,

00:29:13 ◼   ► but this used to be a problem back in the day

00:29:15 ◼   ► because if you like, you know, took a video on your iPhone,

00:29:18 ◼   ► and then you plugged your iPhone into Charge,

00:29:20 ◼   ► it would upload it to iCloud, and it's uploading,

00:29:23 ◼   ► you know, this two gig video you just shot on your phone,

00:29:26 ◼   ► then the wifi is quote down for the entire rest of the house

00:29:30 ◼   ► because everyone else is trying to do stuff

00:29:32 ◼   ► and your phone is saturating the upstream

00:29:34 ◼   ► and so nothing else works.

00:29:37 ◼   ► So it's one of the many reasons why

00:29:40 ◼   ► having a whole bunch of headroom

00:29:41 ◼   ► on your upstream bandwidth as well

00:29:43 ◼   ► is very important because you can't do that.

00:29:45 ◼   ► And of course, if you have a modern router

00:29:47 ◼   ► that supports prioritization and QoS kind of stuff,

00:29:49 ◼   ► then this problem is largely mitigated,

00:29:52 ◼   ► but it definitely helps.

00:29:53 ◼   ► - Moving on, John, tell me about a problem

00:29:55 ◼   ► with the Apple TV remote with touch disabled, please.

00:29:58 ◼   ► - Yeah, last episode we were talking about

00:30:00 ◼   ► the ability to force quit apps

00:30:02 ◼   ► without the ability to swipe them up.

00:30:03 ◼   ► And of course the answer there is to double tap

00:30:05 ◼   ► the up button, something that many, many people

00:30:08 ◼   ► sent us on Mastodon while they were listening to the show

00:30:11 ◼   ► only to learn minutes later that we said that.

00:30:14 ◼   ► So we caught a lot of people on that one.

00:30:15 ◼   ► We don't do this on purpose, by the way,

00:30:16 ◼   ► but it is fun to see how many people do respond

00:30:19 ◼   ► in real time as they're listening, right?

00:30:21 ◼   ► And the answer is a lot.

00:30:22 ◼   ► Anyway, one more thing from Eric Hemeter.

00:30:25 ◼   ► It says when you disable touch on the Apple TV remote,

00:30:30 ◼   ► you don't have a way to find out

00:30:31 ◼   ► what the screensaver location is.

00:30:32 ◼   ► So the screensaver shows like different places on earth,

00:30:35 ◼   ► like with a slow camera pan over them or whatever.

00:30:37 ◼   ► And if you just touch the touch pad,

00:30:38 ◼   ► like not click it, but just touch it,

00:30:40 ◼   ► it says, oh, this is London or this is whatever.

00:30:42 ◼   ► Like it tells you the location.

00:30:43 ◼   ► 'Cause you're always curious, like what city is that?

00:30:45 ◼   ► Where is that?

00:30:45 ◼   ► So now we'll do it again.

00:30:49 ◼   ► We don't know how to get that to appear

00:30:51 ◼   ► without touch enabled,

00:30:52 ◼   ► but maybe before the end of the show,

00:30:53 ◼   ► we'll find out and say it in the show.

00:30:55 ◼   ► So if you know, you should probably finish listening to the whole show before you send

00:30:59 ◼   ► a message to Mastodon telling us how to do it.

00:31:01 ◼   ► Now chat room, the race is on.

00:31:03 ◼   ► You have to figure this out before the end of the show so the people who send us a message

00:31:05 ◼   ► will feel embarrassed by the fact that they didn't wait to hear the answer.

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00:32:51 ◼   ► (upbeat music)

00:32:54 ◼   ► - All right, we have some yellow things follow up.

00:32:57 ◼   ► Joel McIntosh writes,

00:32:58 ◼   ► "The best and worst car colors for resale value,

00:33:02 ◼   ► "according to CarPro.com," which I've never heard of,

00:33:04 ◼   ► but that's neither here nor there.

00:33:06 ◼   ► "According to CarPro.com, they write,

00:33:08 ◼   ► "while it may be among the least popular color choices,"

00:33:11 ◼   ► because it's gross,

00:33:12 ◼   ► "yellow is the vehicle color that holds its value best

00:33:16 ◼   ► "over all, depreciating 70% less than the average vehicle."

00:33:20 ◼   ► - Well, okay, so just for reference here,

00:33:24 ◼   ► I saw this too and I was gonna do a victory lap,

00:33:25 ◼   ► but then I thought, but at the same time though,

00:33:28 ◼   ► most cars aren't available in yellow,

00:33:31 ◼   ► so the ones that are available in yellow

00:33:34 ◼   ► are already more rare, more specialty models most likely,

00:33:38 ◼   ► and so I think that might be skewed in the data.

00:33:41 ◼   ► You can't get a Honda Accord in yellow.

00:33:43 ◼   ► - Is it not normalized within each car?

00:33:46 ◼   ► I don't know, but look at the stats.

00:33:49 ◼   ► I figured they would do it within each car.

00:33:51 ◼   ► So this car comes in five colors, one of which is yellow,

00:33:53 ◼   ► and the yellow one depreciates 70% less.

00:33:55 ◼   ► Like that would be the stat,

00:33:56 ◼   ► not what you're saying like across all cars.

00:33:58 ◼   ► - Yeah, I'm not sure.

00:33:59 ◼   ► - Well, I believe it because you know why?

00:34:01 ◼   ► Yellow is a fun color when people buy a used car,

00:34:03 ◼   ► they want it to be fun.

00:34:05 ◼   ► - Anyway, I also would like to point out

00:34:07 ◼   ► that it says in the same article,

00:34:10 ◼   ► and I am pointing this out because I'm trying to be better,

00:34:13 ◼   ► the colors that retain the best value by segment are,

00:34:16 ◼   ► and for the SUV segment, the answer was yellow.

00:34:19 ◼   ► Similarly, even though this isn't a car thing,

00:34:24 ◼   ► well I feed around and found out

00:34:26 ◼   ► because Apple has released a yellow iPhone.

00:34:29 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:34:30 ◼   ► This could not have been a better troll.

00:34:32 ◼   ► To be honest, and genuinely, I'm not trying to be funny,

00:34:34 ◼   ► I think this is not my favorite yellow,

00:34:37 ◼   ► but I'm in full support of fun iPhone colors.

00:34:39 ◼   ► Just because I don't like yellow cars

00:34:41 ◼   ► doesn't mean I don't like yellow other things.

00:34:42 ◼   ► I have my Playdate sitting on the desk in front of me.

00:34:44 ◼   ► I adore the yellow, although it's honestly

00:34:47 ◼   ► like an orangey yellow, but I adore the Play Date yellow.

00:34:49 ◼   ► This is a little aggressive, but I'm still here for it.

00:34:52 ◼   ► I'm in favor of it.

00:34:53 ◼   ► I wish we could get the pros and fun colors,

00:34:56 ◼   ► as we've all lamented many times,

00:34:57 ◼   ► and particularly the colors ours on upgrade.

00:34:59 ◼   ► No, this is cool, I dig it.

00:35:01 ◼   ► - Yeah, it looks fun.

00:35:03 ◼   ► It is fairly light, and in fact,

00:35:04 ◼   ► Apple also released a whole bunch of yellow accessories

00:35:07 ◼   ► in their spring color refresh.

00:35:09 ◼   ► They got some new watch bands, new iPhone cases.

00:35:12 ◼   ► Nothing that jumps out at me necessarily,

00:35:16 ◼   ► but I wanna go see them in person.

00:35:17 ◼   ► There's what might be a promising orange on the sport band.

00:35:21 ◼   ► But yeah, going back to the yellow phone, it looks fun.

00:35:24 ◼   ► Whenever they do this in the spring,

00:35:26 ◼   ► they do some kind of minor iPhone color refresh

00:35:29 ◼   ► in the spring in the last few years.

00:35:31 ◼   ► It's a fun thing.

00:35:32 ◼   ► I don't know a lot of people who get them

00:35:35 ◼   ► because most people in our circles

00:35:37 ◼   ► will make their buying decisions in the fall.

00:35:39 ◼   ► So this is more for people who haven't upgraded yet

00:35:43 ◼   ► and don't just jump on it in the fall

00:35:45 ◼   ► and they just kinda get it whenever the previous phone

00:35:47 ◼   ► dies or breaks and it looks like a pretty good color.

00:35:50 ◼   ► And like Casey and like Upgrade, I do wish they would

00:35:54 ◼   ► give us these fun color options on the Pro phones.

00:35:57 ◼   ► So maybe in our titanium USB-C future,

00:36:02 ◼   ► maybe they'll be a little bit more generous with the colors.

00:36:04 ◼   ► Who knows?

00:36:05 ◼   ► - Rumor is it's like some darkish magenta type thing

00:36:08 ◼   ► is the new Pro color, but we'll see.

00:36:09 ◼   ► - Yeah, yeah, it's like a maroon.

00:36:11 ◼   ► Actually, I don't know if they're renders or what,

00:36:14 ◼   ► but like the mockups using that color

00:36:17 ◼   ► actually looked pretty cool to me, but we'll see.

00:36:20 ◼   ► - It's hard to guess colors.

00:36:21 ◼   ► You know, when I saw this yellow phone,

00:36:22 ◼   ► I thought it looked like the E36,

00:36:25 ◼   ► the yellow E36 BMW 3 series.

00:36:28 ◼   ► I was trying to figure out what that color was,

00:36:30 ◼   ► so I put a picture of it at a link in the chat room.

00:36:33 ◼   ► Well, I guess before I put it in the show notes,

00:36:34 ◼   ► it was Dakar yellow two, Roman numeral two.

00:36:39 ◼   ► It's a little bit more,

00:36:39 ◼   ► because there's a Dakar yellow

00:36:41 ◼   ► that looks really like deep, saturated yellow,

00:36:44 ◼   ► But I always remember the one from walking down Comm Ave in the 90s at BU, seeing all

00:36:49 ◼   ► the BMWs that belonged to the wealthy students.

00:36:52 ◼   ► And I saw this yellow all the time and it was definitely kind of a pale yellow.

00:36:55 ◼   ► That's what I feel like the phone is.

00:36:56 ◼   ► The phone is not like, even though people have been holding it up next to the playdate,

00:36:59 ◼   ► the playdate is richer and more orange.

00:37:02 ◼   ► This is more kind of like, it's not totally pale yellow, it's not like, you know, springtime

00:37:07 ◼   ► pastel yellow, but a little bit more pale.

00:37:09 ◼   ► It's not big bird yellow, right?

00:37:13 ◼   ► Is it R1S yellow?

00:37:14 ◼   ► I don't know, 'cause I can't figure out

00:37:15 ◼   ► what yellow that freaking car is.

00:37:16 ◼   ► Every time I see a picture,

00:37:17 ◼   ► it looks a different color.

00:37:18 ◼   ► - Yeah, me too.

00:37:19 ◼   ► I have yet to, I feel like I don't have a good handle

00:37:22 ◼   ► on what the color is.

00:37:25 ◼   ► In pictures I've seen, it has looked everything

00:37:27 ◼   ► from basically like champagne gold

00:37:30 ◼   ► to like super, you don't drink enough water kind of yellow.

00:37:35 ◼   ► - Big Bird yellow.

00:37:36 ◼   ► Sometimes it looks Big Bird yellow.

00:37:37 ◼   ► How is this the same color?

00:37:39 ◼   ► - I don't know if this is my reformed BMW fan

00:37:42 ◼   ► speaking or something, but this Dakar yellow,

00:37:45 ◼   ► as yellows go, and I stand by that yellow cars are gross,

00:37:49 ◼   ► as yellows go, this is pretty good.

00:37:51 ◼   ► - Hey, if I ever buy my old classic Toyota MR2

00:37:54 ◼   ► that I've always wanted, that comes in yellow.

00:37:57 ◼   ► - I thought, you gotta get that in fake Ferrari red,

00:37:59 ◼   ► 'cause it's a fake Ferrari Toyota.

00:38:01 ◼   ► - Red is kinda like the default MR2 color, if I'm honest.

00:38:05 ◼   ► - It is.

00:38:06 ◼   ► - But that is a cool yellow.

00:38:08 ◼   ► - And when they catch fire, they turn orange.

00:38:09 ◼   ► - This yellow Marco is not good, it is not good.

00:38:12 ◼   ► - I do not approve.

00:38:13 ◼   ► - I would drive it straight to your house.

00:38:15 ◼   ► - That's fine, I would love for you to do that

00:38:17 ◼   ► 'cause it has been too long since we've seen each other

00:38:19 ◼   ► and you visited and vice versa,

00:38:21 ◼   ► but I do not approve of this yellow.

00:38:23 ◼   ► - Yeah, if I'm honest, the correct color

00:38:25 ◼   ► for the MR2 Turbo is red, but oh well, someday.

00:38:30 ◼   ► - One day.

00:38:31 ◼   ► All right, let's talk about some other stuff.

00:38:34 ◼   ► Is there a spring event?

00:38:36 ◼   ► What's the story here?

00:38:37 ◼   ► - We just talked about the yellow phone,

00:38:39 ◼   ► and the yellow phone was one of the things

00:38:41 ◼   ► rumored for the spring event, but of course they released the yellow phone and gave it

00:38:45 ◼   ► to, they had like press briefings remotely or whatever and handed out the yellow phones

00:38:49 ◼   ► to people and stuff, they did all the things, right?

00:38:51 ◼   ► Like and they did it without an event.

00:38:54 ◼   ► So is there going to be an event or was there going to be an event if they said no, no event

00:38:58 ◼   ► would have sent people yellow phones?

00:38:59 ◼   ► We don't know, but either way the rumors about the things that might have been in that event

00:39:03 ◼   ► are some vaguely interesting developments in the Max that I care about at least.

00:39:09 ◼   ► So the first one is the one we talked about a couple past episodes, is the Max Studio.

00:39:12 ◼   ► We talked about the rumor like, "Oh, the Max Studio is not going to be updated that often.

00:39:16 ◼   ► Oh, is it a dead machine or is it just going to skip a generation or whatever?"

00:39:20 ◼   ► The rumors are stronger now that have the Max Studio skipping the M2 Ultra.

00:39:24 ◼   ► Right now the Max Studio, you can get an M1 Ultra in it and it would make sense if you

00:39:28 ◼   ► think like, "Oh, we're just going to update all the Max every year with the next big M

00:39:31 ◼   ► number."

00:39:32 ◼   ► The Max Studio had the M1 Ultra and it will get the M2 Ultra because we've got the M1

00:39:36 ◼   ► Pro and Max and a bunch of other Max, right?

00:39:38 ◼   ► it's time for the M1 Ultra to be in the new version of the Mac Studio.

00:39:42 ◼   ► Seems like that's not going to happen.

00:39:44 ◼   ► That is related to everyone's favorite Mac, the Mac Pro, where the rumor that we talked

00:39:47 ◼   ► about in past shows about that is the 4X one, the one that would have been two M2 Ultras

00:39:51 ◼   ► shoved together somehow magically, that that chip was canceled, that Apple's not making

00:39:56 ◼   ► it.

00:39:57 ◼   ► Part of the reason why that chip may have been canceled is, you know, what we talked

00:40:02 ◼   ► about before, low volumes, not a lot of people are going to buy that, it's going to be super

00:40:04 ◼   ► expensive, and high cost.

00:40:07 ◼   ► And this is something I think we didn't get into as much in that past episode when we

00:40:11 ◼   ► talked about it, but when Apple put Xeons in its Mac Pros, like the one I have here,

00:40:16 ◼   ► Intel Xeons, those are expensive chips, right?

00:40:20 ◼   ► And Apple didn't get to make them, Intel made them, and Apple had to pay Intel's markup

00:40:25 ◼   ► on them and so on and so forth, and they were still expensive chips, but Apple benefited

00:40:28 ◼   ► greatly from the fact that Mac Pros are not the only place Xeons appear.

00:40:34 ◼   ► Xeons are mostly sold into the server market.

00:40:37 ◼   ► And what Intel hopes is tons and tons of them sold it,

00:40:41 ◼   ► way more than Apple's ever gonna sell Mac Pros.

00:40:44 ◼   ► They're selling servers from Dell,

00:40:46 ◼   ► I don't know if HP still sell things,

00:40:48 ◼   ► and just into data centers everywhere.

00:40:49 ◼   ► Xeons being a server chip, a big expensive server chip,

00:40:53 ◼   ► that's what Intel's selling.

00:40:55 ◼   ► Oh, and by the way, Apple,

00:40:57 ◼   ► since we're your chip supplier

00:40:58 ◼   ► and you need some big honking CPU for your top end computer,

00:41:00 ◼   ► you should probably buy a Xeon from us.

00:41:02 ◼   ► Here's the ones we have to offer.

00:41:03 ◼   ► And that was frustrating for Apple,

00:41:04 ◼   ► 'cause they're like, "We don't really want the Xeons.

00:41:06 ◼   ► "If we could make a chip for a Mac Pro,

00:41:07 ◼   ► "it would be different, it would be better," right?

00:41:10 ◼   ► Well, now Apple has its wish.

00:41:12 ◼   ► They can make their own chip for the Mac Pro.

00:41:14 ◼   ► But lo and behold, when it's time for them

00:41:16 ◼   ► to make a chip for the Mac Pro, they're like,

00:41:18 ◼   ► "Geez, it costs a lot of money to make this chip

00:41:21 ◼   ► "that's 2M2 Ultra stuck together."

00:41:23 ◼   ► 'Cause it's not like Apple's making it themselves,

00:41:26 ◼   ► they have to farm it out, they have to have it done

00:41:28 ◼   ► in the fabs, TSMC fabs at three nanometers or whatever.

00:41:32 ◼   ► and they have to package everything together

00:41:34 ◼   ► with whatever weird interconnect, you know,

00:41:36 ◼   ► we only know what the M1 Ultra has as an interconnect

00:41:38 ◼   ► and the Priscilla M2 Ultra will have on.

00:41:39 ◼   ► We don't know what the plan was for four

00:41:41 ◼   ► because geometrically, like the M2,

00:41:43 ◼   ► the M1 Ultra is just connected to end to end.

00:41:45 ◼   ► If you've got four of them, how do you connect them?

00:41:47 ◼   ► And there was all those rumors that we talked about before

00:41:49 ◼   ► about how that would work.

00:41:50 ◼   ► But anyway, that is a weird thing to do.

00:41:52 ◼   ► And then you have the packaging

00:41:53 ◼   ► where you have to put all that thing in a package

00:41:55 ◼   ► with all the RAM chips around it and put it all together.

00:41:57 ◼   ► And that's expensive, really, really expensive.

00:42:00 ◼   ► because again, Apple has to pay manufacturers

00:42:03 ◼   ► to do all that.

00:42:04 ◼   ► They have to pay someone to print the silicon chips,

00:42:07 ◼   ► they have to pay someone to do whatever interposer stuff

00:42:09 ◼   ► that they do, they have to pay someone

00:42:10 ◼   ► to package it together,

00:42:11 ◼   ► and they have to pay someone for all the RAM chips,

00:42:13 ◼   ► and it's like, and the people who they're paying to do that,

00:42:16 ◼   ► they're like, okay, so how many of these do you want?

00:42:18 ◼   ► Apple's like, I don't know, a dozen, who's gonna buy them?

00:42:21 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:42:21 ◼   ► Who's gonna buy this Mac Pro?

00:42:23 ◼   ► Like the volume, not that they're that low,

00:42:24 ◼   ► but like the volumes are low compared to Intel Xeon, right?

00:42:28 ◼   ► And so now it's like, it's a reckoning,

00:42:30 ◼   ► It's like, well, if you wanna make your own ship

00:42:33 ◼   ► for the Mac Pro, you think you can do a better job

00:42:35 ◼   ► than a Xeon, you're only gonna sell a tenth,

00:42:38 ◼   ► a hundredth as many Xeons, and so everybody you pay

00:42:41 ◼   ► to do this is gonna charge you an arm and a leg

00:42:43 ◼   ► because you're not ordering 10 million from them.

00:42:46 ◼   ► You're ordering in small volumes.

00:42:48 ◼   ► You are a small volume manufacturer

00:42:50 ◼   ► of bespoke artisanal Mac Pro ships now,

00:42:53 ◼   ► even though you're trying to reuse

00:42:55 ◼   ► all the building components from the Mac Studio

00:42:57 ◼   ► and the laptops and stuff.

00:42:58 ◼   ► They're already trying to save money that way.

00:43:00 ◼   ► But the one way you can't save money is,

00:43:01 ◼   ► well, if you want four of those things in here,

00:43:04 ◼   ► you have to connect them some way,

00:43:05 ◼   ► and you have to package them,

00:43:06 ◼   ► and that costs a lot of money.

00:43:06 ◼   ► And it seems like Apple ran away screaming

00:43:09 ◼   ► from the idea of actually paying for that chip

00:43:12 ◼   ► because their volumes are just not high enough.

00:43:15 ◼   ► And I guess even Apple thought we can't,

00:43:17 ◼   ► if you're gonna charge us that much,

00:43:18 ◼   ► then we have to charge our customers so much money,

00:43:20 ◼   ► then they're gonna be like,

00:43:21 ◼   ► no one's gonna buy this Mac Pro

00:43:23 ◼   ► because instead of it being a $10,000 machine,

00:43:25 ◼   ► now it's an $80,000 machine,

00:43:27 ◼   ► and it's not eight times faster for that advantage.

00:43:31 ◼   ► Now, I don't know any of that for a fact,

00:43:33 ◼   ► that's just speculation,

00:43:34 ◼   ► but it's something that occurred to me

00:43:35 ◼   ► when I thought about why they bailed on the Forex chip.

00:43:39 ◼   ► And it's irrelevant to the Mac Studio skipping the M2 Ultra

00:43:42 ◼   ► because if the Mac Studio skips the M2 Ultra,

00:43:46 ◼   ► then you can roll out the Mac Pro with an M2 Ultra

00:43:48 ◼   ► and say, "It's the fastest Mac!"

00:43:52 ◼   ► Because the Mac Studio still has the M1 Ultra.

00:43:56 ◼   ► So if you had updated the Mac Studio,

00:43:57 ◼   ► it'd be like, why would I ever buy a Mac Pro?

00:43:59 ◼   ► It's got the same system on a chip as the Mac Studio.

00:44:02 ◼   ► They both have the M2 Ultra, I don't need any slots,

00:44:04 ◼   ► I don't understand, and I can't put GPUs in the slots anyway

00:44:06 ◼   ► or whatever the hell the story is that's gonna be there.

00:44:08 ◼   ► Why would I ever buy a Mac Pro?

00:44:09 ◼   ► But now by intentionally, not intentionally,

00:44:12 ◼   ► but basically like logically as we discussed previously,

00:44:15 ◼   ► not updating the Mac Studio every year

00:44:16 ◼   ► because it is also a low volume device,

00:44:18 ◼   ► the Mac Studio stays stuck with the M1 Ultra,

00:44:21 ◼   ► the Mac Pro gets the M2 Ultra,

00:44:22 ◼   ► and Apple gets to put a bunch of graphs on stage

00:44:24 ◼   ► showing how much faster the Mac Pro is than any other other Macs.

00:44:28 ◼   ► And I think that makes a perverse kind of Apple sense in terms of how they explain the

00:44:34 ◼   ► machine, how they run away screaming from the cost of making the big 4X thing, and how

00:44:39 ◼   ► the Mac Studio update cycle can skip a chip generation.

00:44:42 ◼   ► Just like, I mean, I'm presuming eventually the ARM Mac Pro will also skip chip generations

00:44:48 ◼   ► just because the lower the volume, the less Apple seems to be able to justify updating

00:44:52 ◼   ► the machine every single year.

00:44:54 ◼   ► The rumors and quote information that we keep hearing about the Mac Pro are so all over

00:44:59 ◼   ► the place.

00:45:01 ◼   ► The more I think about it, the more time it goes on, the more I think either you are right,

00:45:07 ◼   ► that the Mac Pro will basically just be the studio with slots of some kind, and same chips

00:45:14 ◼   ► and everything otherwise, or the rumors are way off, just totally wrong, or option three,

00:45:23 ◼   ► the Mac Pro will actually never ship.

00:45:25 ◼   ► And I don't know which of those

00:45:28 ◼   ► is the most likely at this point.

00:45:29 ◼   ► - An Apple person recently in an interview

00:45:32 ◼   ► gave vague reassurances that the Mac Pro is still coming,

00:45:35 ◼   ► like as in I think less than a month ago.

00:45:37 ◼   ► - I mean they said AirPower was coming and then it didn't.

00:45:39 ◼   ► - I know, but like, so they said the Mac Pro was coming

00:45:42 ◼   ► in that event presentation,

00:45:44 ◼   ► whatever it was last year sometime, right?

00:45:46 ◼   ► And it's like okay, well maybe the plans

00:45:48 ◼   ► have changed since then.

00:45:49 ◼   ► But I feel like if many, many months have passed since then,

00:45:52 ◼   ► and an Apple person officially is saying to the press,

00:45:55 ◼   ► oh yeah, the Mac Pro is coming,

00:45:56 ◼   ► I feel like that means it's coming.

00:45:58 ◼   ► What's coming?

00:45:59 ◼   ► And I agree with you that we could be totally wrong

00:46:01 ◼   ► because this is the type of stuff that doesn't leak

00:46:03 ◼   ► 'cause no one cares about it except for us.

00:46:04 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:46:05 ◼   ► - And the thing is, again,

00:46:06 ◼   ► the rumors are so all over the place.

00:46:08 ◼   ► Whatever the Mac Pro is currently rumored to be

00:46:11 ◼   ► is usually something that is so far different

00:46:14 ◼   ► from everything else in the Apple Silicon lineup

00:46:16 ◼   ► that it is kind of, it seems like kind of a reach

00:46:20 ◼   ► that that's what they would be doing.

00:46:22 ◼   ► And so it's just, I don't know,

00:46:23 ◼   ► I'm starting to get worried really about the Mac Pro.

00:46:26 ◼   ► Like I'm starting to think--

00:46:28 ◼   ► - Then you're doing it right.

00:46:29 ◼   ► This is the Mac Pro experience.

00:46:30 ◼   ► - I know, right?

00:46:31 ◼   ► This is our show for the last decade.

00:46:34 ◼   ► It's like--

00:46:35 ◼   ► - You're starting to get worried about the Mac Pro,

00:46:36 ◼   ► you say, Marco.

00:46:37 ◼   ► We can play this clip at any time in the next 20 years

00:46:40 ◼   ► that will be true.

00:46:40 ◼   ► - Or the past 10.

00:46:41 ◼   ► Yeah, so I hope the answer is

00:46:46 ◼   ► that the rumors are just wrong,

00:46:47 ◼   ► or at least largely,

00:46:48 ◼   ► 'cause they're so all over the map

00:46:50 ◼   ► and kind of not encouraging that,

00:46:54 ◼   ► yeah, I'm hoping that's the real answer

00:46:56 ◼   ► 'cause that does happen too.

00:46:58 ◼   ► Yes, Apple does fail at things and change their minds.

00:47:00 ◼   ► Also, rumors are wrong a lot.

00:47:02 ◼   ► So I wouldn't say which one is more likely to be the case,

00:47:05 ◼   ► but the rumors, they just don't make sense

00:47:08 ◼   ► with what else we know and what else we expect.

00:47:11 ◼   ► And so either they're gonna kind of chicken out

00:47:15 ◼   ► of the high end like your theory

00:47:17 ◼   ► about the Max Studio being skipped a little bit

00:47:20 ◼   ► and stuff like that, or something's wrong.

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00:48:36 ◼   ► There are some other Macs that were rumored, potentially,

00:48:43 ◼   ► for a March event that may or may not happen.

00:48:46 ◼   ► The iMac, the 24-inch iMac, that hasn't been updated in a while.

00:48:50 ◼   ► It still has the plain old M1, no modifier, no suffix.

00:48:54 ◼   ► And it's fine for that size of computer, but the idea is, OK, well, that will eventually

00:48:58 ◼   ► get the M2, won't it?

00:49:01 ◼   ► Seems like maybe not, because the M2 has been out for a while, and the machines that Apple

00:49:04 ◼   ► would update with the M2 have mostly been updated to the M2, but still not the iMac.

00:49:08 ◼   ► So most recently, Germin thinks that there won't be an update to the 24-inch iMac until

00:49:13 ◼   ► the second half of the year at the earliest and by that point the M3 will be available

00:49:17 ◼   ► so it could be that the iMac also skips a generation and goes from M1 to M3.

00:49:24 ◼   ► Presumably for similar reasons, not a lot of people buy desktops, right?

00:49:29 ◼   ► I guess the iMac is probably, well I don't know, which sells more, the 24 inch iMac or

00:49:33 ◼   ► the Mac Mini?

00:49:34 ◼   ► Probably the iMac.

00:49:35 ◼   ► Oh yeah.

00:49:36 ◼   ► Those are sold in a lot of like offices and stores and yeah, they do sell a good number

00:49:40 ◼   ► of those.

00:49:41 ◼   ► The premiums compared to the laptops have to be smaller.

00:49:44 ◼   ► Is that why it's skipping a generation?

00:49:46 ◼   ► We don't know.

00:49:48 ◼   ► Because of supply chain COVID and because of the ARM transition, it's still very difficult

00:49:52 ◼   ► to pick up patterns in Apple's because there's still so much chaos.

00:49:57 ◼   ► What is their pattern?

00:49:58 ◼   ► What is their update cadence?

00:49:59 ◼   ► Related to that, again, I think it was Germin, not an Apple spokesperson.

00:50:04 ◼   ► Germin said something to the effect that Apple, again, declaring this with no sourcing or

00:50:09 ◼   ► or anything, we're just saying Apple seems to want

00:50:11 ◼   ► to update their Mac SOCs on a yearly cycle,

00:50:15 ◼   ► just like the iPhone.

00:50:16 ◼   ► So, you know, A15, A16, A17, they wanna do M1, M2, M3

00:50:20 ◼   ► every year, not a 1.5 year cycle, not a two year cycle.

00:50:24 ◼   ► Every year, they want the M number to go up one,

00:50:26 ◼   ► just like the A number goes up one.

00:50:28 ◼   ► If that's true, I endorse that plan.

00:50:31 ◼   ► Apple is, you know, go for it.

00:50:34 ◼   ► But that doesn't mean they're going to put

00:50:35 ◼   ► those updated numbers in every one of their Macs

00:50:38 ◼   ► on a yearly cycle, as evidenced so far by the Macs that have not come along to the M2

00:50:42 ◼   ► generation, and the rumor is that some of them may wait for the M3.

00:50:45 ◼   ► So we'll see.

00:50:46 ◼   ► By the end of 2023, presumably a 24-inch iMac will be updated.

00:50:49 ◼   ► Will it be updated with an M2?

00:50:50 ◼   ► Or will it be updated with an M3?

00:50:54 ◼   ► Related to that, one more Mac, the 15-inch MacBook Air that everyone's been talking about.

00:50:57 ◼   ► The MacBook Air already has an M2 in it.

00:50:59 ◼   ► They already updated that one from M1 to M2, so that's out.

00:51:02 ◼   ► That's here.

00:51:03 ◼   ► 15 inch one, the sort of straightforward rumor is it'll be just like the existing 13 inch

00:51:10 ◼   ► MacBook Air, it'll be 15 inches, it'll have a bigger battery, and it'll have a bigger

00:51:13 ◼   ► screen and it'll have an M2 in it.

00:51:15 ◼   ► That's a perfectly fine product, I think it's great, I think it fills a hole in their line,

00:51:18 ◼   ► I think it's cool.

00:51:20 ◼   ► There are some rumors that it might have an M2 Pro in it instead of an M2 because you've

00:51:23 ◼   ► got more room and more cooling.

00:51:24 ◼   ► The thing that I've been thinking about that I haven't seen anyone say yet, and it's been

00:51:28 ◼   ► weeks and I figure someone would have done it by now, but if not I'm going to say it,

00:51:33 ◼   ► They talk about the room, but like,

00:51:33 ◼   ► maybe it won't even be called a MacBook Air, huh?

00:51:35 ◼   ► I wonder what it will be called.

00:51:37 ◼   ► And they never let the other shoe drop.

00:51:39 ◼   ► Wonder what it will be called.

00:51:40 ◼   ► What will it be called?

00:51:41 ◼   ► Two co-hosts of ATP.

00:51:43 ◼   ► If it's not called MacBook Air and it's 15 inch,

00:51:45 ◼   ► what will it be called,

00:51:46 ◼   ► according to Apple's current naming conventions?

00:51:48 ◼   ► - Maybe MacBook just by itself, but I don't know.

00:51:50 ◼   ► - Yeah, that's what I was gonna say.

00:51:51 ◼   ► - But it's a little big for that.

00:51:52 ◼   ► - What?

00:51:52 ◼   ► Am I the only one who thinks this?

00:51:54 ◼   ► MacBook Studio.

00:51:55 ◼   ► That's what's between the bottom end and the pro.

00:51:58 ◼   ► It's the Studio suffix.

00:52:00 ◼   ► It's the MacBook Studio.

00:52:01 ◼   ► It's 15 inches, it's got an M2 Pro, the MacBook Studio.

00:52:06 ◼   ► It's right there.

00:52:07 ◼   ► - No, I don't buy it.

00:52:08 ◼   ► I don't buy it.

00:52:09 ◼   ► - No, Studio is higher up the line.

00:52:10 ◼   ► Studio basically means desktop Pro right now.

00:52:13 ◼   ► - No, it's below Pro, right?

00:52:16 ◼   ► Because the Mac Pro is above the Mac Studio.

00:52:18 ◼   ► The MacBook Pros are above the MacBook Studio.

00:52:21 ◼   ► - I see what you're saying.

00:52:22 ◼   ► I don't think, I think it's just gonna be

00:52:23 ◼   ► the 15 inch MacBook Air.

00:52:24 ◼   ► - Yes, it probably just should be,

00:52:26 ◼   ► I mean, this was predicated on it coming with the M2 Pro,

00:52:29 ◼   ► which is one of the rumors, right?

00:52:29 ◼   ► If it just comes with the M2, it's a 15-inch MacBook Air.

00:52:32 ◼   ► That's literally what it is, right?

00:52:33 ◼   ► And that is the most straightforward thing.

00:52:34 ◼   ► - And that's what I would expect that.

00:52:36 ◼   ► Like, I don't think they would give it the Pro chip.

00:52:38 ◼   ► - Or best, you could option the Pro chip

00:52:41 ◼   ► and it would not come by default.

00:52:42 ◼   ► - Oh, it definitely won't come by default. (laughs)

00:52:44 ◼   ► - Yeah, no, I feel like this really depends on

00:52:47 ◼   ► whether Apple does what they did with the 14 Plus,

00:52:51 ◼   ► which is like, we want to have a larger version

00:52:54 ◼   ► of the cheap phone, right?

00:52:56 ◼   ► - Yes.

00:52:56 ◼   ► - And that's basically, it's the 14 inside there,

00:52:58 ◼   ► it's just bigger.

00:52:59 ◼   ► Like that is straightforward what it is.

00:53:01 ◼   ► Or they could say, no, we still refuse to do that.

00:53:04 ◼   ► If you want anything with a 15 inch screen,

00:53:05 ◼   ► you're gonna pay more because that's a step up.

00:53:07 ◼   ► And even though we could make a 15 inch MacBook Air,

00:53:10 ◼   ► we're not going to, we're gonna make a like,

00:53:13 ◼   ► scaled down 16 inch MacBook Pro

00:53:15 ◼   ► and we'll call it the MacBook Studio.

00:53:16 ◼   ► I hope they make the 15 inch MacBook Air,

00:53:19 ◼   ► they call it the Air, it has the Air motherboard,

00:53:20 ◼   ► has Air-like pricing,

00:53:22 ◼   ► it'll be more expensive than 13 inch,

00:53:23 ◼   ► but not that much more.

00:53:24 ◼   ► 'Cause I think that's the product they need to make.

00:53:26 ◼   ► But if they can't resist saying,

00:53:27 ◼   ► "Well, no, as soon as that screen gets bigger than 13",

00:53:30 ◼   ► we're gonna need more money from you.

00:53:31 ◼   ► If they do that, then it's a MacBook Studio,

00:53:34 ◼   ► although I do admit that that naming convention

00:53:36 ◼   ► is too consistent for Apple to do it.

00:53:38 ◼   ► - No, I mean, I expect, first of all,

00:53:40 ◼   ► I expect this 15-inch MacBook Air.

00:53:44 ◼   ► This seems to be a real deal.

00:53:45 ◼   ► The rumors are very strong, and I hope it's real

00:53:47 ◼   ► because I think they'll sell a ton of them.

00:53:49 ◼   ► I think it's a great idea for a product,

00:53:52 ◼   ► and I don't think that it will too badly cannibalize

00:53:55 ◼   ► the 16 inch just because I don't think,

00:54:00 ◼   ► if you look at the current price gap here,

00:54:02 ◼   ► you know the MacBook Air, even if you get the new M2 model,

00:54:07 ◼   ► it's like 1200 bucks and the cheapest 16 inch is $2500.

00:54:12 ◼   ► This is a huge gap and so I would expect a MacBook Air

00:54:19 ◼   ► 15 inch going from $1200 from a 13 inch,

00:54:22 ◼   ► I would guess maybe it's two or three hundred dollars more.

00:54:26 ◼   ► So maybe it's like fifteen hundred dollars.

00:54:28 ◼   ► That's still very far from twenty five hundred dollars.

00:54:31 ◼   ► So that's the kind of difference I would expect there.

00:54:35 ◼   ► And if they do that, and it's otherwise the same computer,

00:54:39 ◼   ► with no other changes, no Pro chip, nothing higher spec'd,

00:54:43 ◼   ► just a bigger screened MacBook Air for a few hundred dollars

00:54:46 ◼   ► more.

00:54:47 ◼   ► - And a bigger battery, importantly,

00:54:48 ◼   ► which I think is gonna make that machine

00:54:49 ◼   ► extremely attractive.

00:54:51 ◼   ► Yeah, but honestly, I don't even know how much,

00:54:54 ◼   ► I mean the battery would need to be proportionally bigger

00:54:56 ◼   ► just to have the more screen area be lit up,

00:54:59 ◼   ► but it doesn't need more battery life.

00:55:00 ◼   ► The MacBook Air has tons of battery life already.

00:55:02 ◼   ► - I know, but what I'm saying is I think the battery,

00:55:05 ◼   ► the amount of extra area they have for battery

00:55:07 ◼   ► is more than enough to account for the larger screen size.

00:55:10 ◼   ► I don't know if I'm right about that calculation,

00:55:11 ◼   ► but that's my gut feeling,

00:55:12 ◼   ► that they will have excess battery.

00:55:14 ◼   ► And since the M2 MacBook Air already has good battery life,

00:55:17 ◼   ► this thing will be a battery camel,

00:55:19 ◼   ► and I think it will make it very popular,

00:55:20 ◼   ► 'cause hey, you pay a little bit more money,

00:55:22 ◼   ► you get a bigger screen and even more battery life,

00:55:25 ◼   ► that is a very attractive machine.

00:55:26 ◼   ► Like I've wanted Apple to make a machine like this

00:55:28 ◼   ► for a long time.

00:55:29 ◼   ► That's why I kind of feel like I can't believe

00:55:31 ◼   ► they're actually gonna do it.

00:55:32 ◼   ► They did do it with the iPhone

00:55:33 ◼   ► and the rumor is the 14 plus or whatever

00:55:34 ◼   ► is not selling that well.

00:55:35 ◼   ► It just disappoints me

00:55:36 ◼   ► and I hope they don't get scared by that

00:55:38 ◼   ► and pull a mini and be like, oh, we did that once

00:55:40 ◼   ► and people didn't buy enough of them

00:55:41 ◼   ► so we're not doing it again.

00:55:42 ◼   ► It's like Apple, every model can't be the best seller

00:55:45 ◼   ► and they're not all gonna sell evenly.

00:55:47 ◼   ► Someone's, one phone is always gonna be the one

00:55:50 ◼   ► that sells the least.

00:55:50 ◼   ► I mean, you cancel that one.

00:55:52 ◼   ► Just have a cheap phone in big and small,

00:55:55 ◼   ► an expensive phone in big and small.

00:55:56 ◼   ► And Apple seems to be like,

00:55:57 ◼   ► "Well, we made a cheap phone in big and small,

00:55:58 ◼   ► and not enough people bought the big ones,

00:56:00 ◼   ► so we're back to just small.

00:56:01 ◼   ► Want more, pay more."

00:56:03 ◼   ► I don't like that attitude.

00:56:04 ◼   ► And instead what they're gonna do is the iPhone Ultra,

00:56:07 ◼   ► it's like, "Well, we have the iPhone Pro,

00:56:09 ◼   ► and that wasn't expensive enough.

00:56:11 ◼   ► So we're going super high end."

00:56:12 ◼   ► It's the iPhone, that is,

00:56:13 ◼   ► we haven't talked about the rumor,

00:56:14 ◼   ► but the iPhone Ultra rumor is out there,

00:56:16 ◼   ► that there's an even higher price point

00:56:18 ◼   ► for the one that's made out of diamond or whatever.

00:56:20 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:56:21 ◼   ► Going back for a sec to the 15 inch air.

00:56:23 ◼   ► So first of all, your battery camel theory is good.

00:56:26 ◼   ► I'm not sure they would necessarily do it though

00:56:28 ◼   ► because batteries are heavy

00:56:30 ◼   ► and the air brand means thin and light.

00:56:33 ◼   ► I mean, it means mainstream really, but--

00:56:34 ◼   ► - I'm saying they're not making it any thicker than the 12.

00:56:36 ◼   ► They just get more battery 'cause it's 15 inches.

00:56:38 ◼   ► Like that's just free real estate.

00:56:40 ◼   ► - But it's not free weight though.

00:56:41 ◼   ► That's why-- - I know, but they're gonna

00:56:43 ◼   ► fill, they're not gonna leave it empty with air, ha ha.

00:56:45 ◼   ► - No, but-- - It's gonna be on battery.

00:56:47 ◼   ► - They can put a cellular modem in there.

00:56:49 ◼   ► - Oh, stop it, no, actually they can't,

00:56:52 ◼   ► that's impossible, it's been proven.

00:56:54 ◼   ► - Yeah. (laughs)

00:56:55 ◼   ► But yeah, also, so anyway, this machine,

00:56:58 ◼   ► I expect to be great.

00:56:59 ◼   ► It feels a little early to be seeing any M3 Macs.

00:57:03 ◼   ► The M2 MacBook Air just came out last summer, so right?

00:57:09 ◼   ► - Yeah, no, the MacBook Air is not rumored to be,

00:57:11 ◼   ► the 15-inch is not rumored to be M3.

00:57:13 ◼   ► The only ones that have rumored to be M3

00:57:14 ◼   ► is potentially the iMac,

00:57:15 ◼   ► which will be second half of the year,

00:57:17 ◼   ► and that's, oh, and well, there was a couple other M3 ones

00:57:21 ◼   ► rumored by more than this, but even the Mac Pro,

00:57:23 ◼   ► there would be M2 Ultra, not M3 Ultra.

00:57:25 ◼   ► - Yeah, so we'll see about all that, but anyway,

00:57:27 ◼   ► the 15-inch Air, it sounds real,

00:57:30 ◼   ► I think they're gonna do a good job with it,

00:57:32 ◼   ► and I think it continues their,

00:57:35 ◼   ► it fills in a huge gap in the lineup,

00:57:37 ◼   ► 'cause right now, if you want a bigger screen than 13-inch,

00:57:40 ◼   ► you have to, again, like more than double the price,

00:57:44 ◼   ► And again, cannibalizing the 16 inch,

00:57:48 ◼   ► I don't think is a huge problem because what you get

00:57:52 ◼   ► with the 16 inch is not just one more inch of screen space,

00:57:55 ◼   ► you're getting way higher end components in other areas.

00:57:58 ◼   ► Like when you compare to what the MacBook Air offers today

00:58:01 ◼   ► versus what the MacBook Pro offers today,

00:58:03 ◼   ► the MacBook Pro has way better screen,

00:58:05 ◼   ► way better performance, way higher resource limits,

00:58:08 ◼   ► better speakers, better microphones.

00:58:11 ◼   ► It's a lot better in a bunch of ways.

00:58:14 ◼   ► And so a 15 inch Air would not really eat into that.

00:58:17 ◼   ► Meanwhile, if you are looking at the MacBook Air at $1200

00:58:21 ◼   ► and you're like, well, I wish the screen

00:58:23 ◼   ► was a little bit bigger.

00:58:24 ◼   ► You don't go look and say, oh well, okay,

00:58:26 ◼   ► I'll pay $2500 for the extra couple inches.

00:58:30 ◼   ► No, you just buy the smaller MacBook Air

00:58:32 ◼   ► or you go buy a cheap PC.

00:58:33 ◼   ► So I don't think that upsell process

00:58:36 ◼   ► is working that way very well now.

00:58:40 ◼   ► and I think this would be a pretty big thing.

00:58:41 ◼   ► Also, I think where this would sell a ton

00:58:44 ◼   ► is in corporate sales.

00:58:46 ◼   ► Tons of companies buy large quantities of MacBook Airs

00:58:51 ◼   ► and they also like to have a little bit bigger options

00:58:53 ◼   ► and I think if there's a 15 inch MacBook Air,

00:58:57 ◼   ► they would sell so many of those in bulk

00:58:59 ◼   ► to like, you know, fleet buyers

00:59:01 ◼   ► and that's another reason why I think

00:59:04 ◼   ► they're not gonna go super high end with anything.

00:59:07 ◼   ► I don't think they're even gonna go with the Pro chip there.

00:59:09 ◼   ► Again, because the purpose of the MacBook Air

00:59:12 ◼   ► is large volume, inexpensive model

00:59:15 ◼   ► that satisfies most people's needs.

00:59:17 ◼   ► And the regular M2 does that.

00:59:18 ◼   ► You don't need the M2 Pro to do that.

00:59:20 ◼   ► I know right now a lot of companies do just buy

00:59:22 ◼   ► a bunch of 16 inch MacBook Pros as their stock computer,

00:59:24 ◼   ► but that's mostly for higher end uses,

00:59:26 ◼   ► like developers, designers, that kind of thing.

00:59:29 ◼   ► Not a lot of people are buying those for their sales staff.

00:59:32 ◼   ► And you know, they're--

00:59:32 ◼   ► - Yeah, Apple's stupid price structure

00:59:35 ◼   ► for the big laptops cost a ton of money,

00:59:36 ◼   ► was passed on to me in my corporate life because companies in general want to offer computers

00:59:44 ◼   ► to their employees.

00:59:45 ◼   ► They're like, "You can get a big screen or a small screen."

00:59:47 ◼   ► And so with the Dell laptops or whatever, that's what they would offer you.

00:59:50 ◼   ► And yeah, the big one is a little bit more expensive, but they basically gave you a choice.

00:59:52 ◼   ► Do you want it small and portable, or is it a bigger screen, more important to you?

00:59:55 ◼   ► Right, because the difference was a few hundred bucks.

00:59:57 ◼   ► Right.

00:59:58 ◼   ► But with the Macs, it was this whole regimented system, and people were like, "Okay, well,

01:00:01 ◼   ► I want a Mac, but I want it with a big screen."

01:00:03 ◼   ► They're like, "Oh, oh, wait a second.

01:00:05 ◼   ► If you want the Mac with the big,

01:00:06 ◼   ► because it's literally double the price.

01:00:07 ◼   ► It's not like a hundred dollars, right?

01:00:09 ◼   ► If you want the one with the big screen,

01:00:10 ◼   ► you have to be this level,

01:00:11 ◼   ► or your boss has to approve it or whatever.

01:00:13 ◼   ► And you're like, I don't care.

01:00:14 ◼   ► Like they don't, people who ask for that,

01:00:15 ◼   ► they don't know or care anything about Macs.

01:00:17 ◼   ► They just want a bigger laptop screen

01:00:18 ◼   ► 'cause it's easier for them to do stuff.

01:00:19 ◼   ► And they work a lot on their laptops

01:00:21 ◼   ► when they're not on the road even,

01:00:22 ◼   ► but just in meetings and rooms.

01:00:23 ◼   ► People are like, oh, why don't you just hook a monitor up?

01:00:25 ◼   ► Nobody cares, buy a cheap Dell monitor.

01:00:26 ◼   ► Like that's fine for their other desk.

01:00:28 ◼   ► People are on quote unquote on the go,

01:00:30 ◼   ► even within the office back in the day

01:00:31 ◼   ► when we were all in the office,

01:00:32 ◼   ► just going from conference room to conference room

01:00:34 ◼   ► and a 15 inch screen is bigger.

01:00:35 ◼   ► And people would request,

01:00:37 ◼   ► and the companies that I work for,

01:00:38 ◼   ► I want a Mac laptop and I want one with a big screen

01:00:40 ◼   ► and they got so much pushback

01:00:41 ◼   ► because of Apple's stupid pricing structure.

01:00:43 ◼   ► So if the 15 inch was available,

01:00:45 ◼   ► corporations would snap it up.

01:00:46 ◼   ► 'Cause they do not want to buy,

01:00:48 ◼   ► to the cheap corporations,

01:00:49 ◼   ► do not want, which is most of them,

01:00:50 ◼   ► don't want to buy every employee who wants one,

01:00:53 ◼   ► a big screen Mac laptop because they're so expensive.

01:00:56 ◼   ► And honestly, employees don't need a 16 inch MacBook Pro

01:01:00 ◼   ► if all they're gonna do is check email all day

01:01:01 ◼   ► and look at web browsers and have Excel open, right?

01:01:04 ◼   ► 15-inch MacBook Air will do that perfectly.

01:01:06 ◼   ► - I would go even broader than that.

01:01:08 ◼   ► Almost everyone doesn't need a 16-inch MacBook Pro.

01:01:11 ◼   ► Almost everyone's needs could be solved just fine

01:01:15 ◼   ► with a 15-inch MacBook Air if it was,

01:01:17 ◼   ► maybe you bumped the storage and RAM up for some people,

01:01:19 ◼   ► but otherwise, many of us are still stuck

01:01:22 ◼   ► in the old way of thinking,

01:01:24 ◼   ► well, the low-end consumer-priced entries

01:01:27 ◼   ► in the Apple lineup are not suitable for,

01:01:29 ◼   ► if you're a video editor or a heavy coder or whatever.

01:01:33 ◼   ► And that maybe used to be true.

01:01:35 ◼   ► That's not true anymore.

01:01:36 ◼   ► Now, almost anybody's job can be done perfectly well

01:01:41 ◼   ► and not just barely done, can be done well

01:01:44 ◼   ► on a MacBook Air class processor.

01:01:47 ◼   ► Almost no one actually needs the larger resources.

01:01:49 ◼   ► I'm very happy to keep making them.

01:01:51 ◼   ► I'm gonna keep buying them.

01:01:52 ◼   ► But the fact is, if I had to do my job entirely

01:01:54 ◼   ► on a MacBook Air, I could.

01:01:56 ◼   ► A year ago, I did.

01:01:57 ◼   ► It was fine.

01:01:59 ◼   ► (laughing)

01:02:00 ◼   ► Like the Apple Silicon class low end chips,

01:02:03 ◼   ► quote low end, are so good,

01:02:05 ◼   ► we are not even coming close to filling that headroom

01:02:08 ◼   ► and actually using it in most fields.

01:02:10 ◼   ► And every year as those chips get better and better,

01:02:13 ◼   ► the number of tasks that you really benefit

01:02:17 ◼   ► with the higher end hardware for is getting smaller.

01:02:20 ◼   ► It's a very good place to be.

01:02:22 ◼   ► If they, already the 13 inch MacBook Air

01:02:24 ◼   ► is an amazing computer for almost everything,

01:02:27 ◼   ► make it a little bit bigger and you cover way more needs

01:02:30 ◼   ► and you don't need to make the chip any faster

01:02:32 ◼   ► if you don't want to.

01:02:33 ◼   ► - One of the things they could do,

01:02:34 ◼   ► a couple of things they could do with 15 inch MacBook Air

01:02:36 ◼   ► if they wanted 'cause we were talking about,

01:02:38 ◼   ► oh, if they fill that space with battery,

01:02:39 ◼   ► it makes it heavier or whatever.

01:02:41 ◼   ► You know what you could fill that space with?

01:02:42 ◼   ► I know they're not gonna do this,

01:02:43 ◼   ► but I just thrown that out there for Apple.

01:02:44 ◼   ► I know it's too late, but 15 inch MacBook Air,

01:02:47 ◼   ► plenty of room for an SD card slot.

01:02:49 ◼   ► I know, we were talking about what do you get with a 16 inch?

01:02:51 ◼   ► You get an SD card slot?

01:02:52 ◼   ► - That is one thing I really would like.

01:02:54 ◼   ► - You get an SD card slot and you get an HDMI port.

01:02:57 ◼   ► I'm not saying on the Air, put HDMI, it might not be thick enough, right?

01:02:59 ◼   ► But SD is very slim and it will fit and if you have all that space, maybe think about

01:03:03 ◼   ► that.

01:03:04 ◼   ► The other thing you can do, you're not going to get the cool HDR screen on the MacBook

01:03:07 ◼   ► Pros, that's part of what makes it expensive, those are amazing screens, but the MacBook

01:03:11 ◼   ► Air ships with a default resolution that's not native res for its screen.

01:03:15 ◼   ► The 15-inch potentially could ship with native res for its screen instead of a scaled resolution.

01:03:21 ◼   ► Now that's a pro thing, they're not going to do that.

01:03:23 ◼   ► I don't know, it's 15-inch though, I'm saying like it's not 16-inch native resolution, it's

01:03:26 ◼   ► 15-inch native, and honestly, screens for native res 15-inch that aren't HDR, like,

01:03:32 ◼   ► you're not breaking the bank on that, Apple. That is not advanced technology. That is a

01:03:35 ◼   ► known quantity. You can get those screens. It's not that much more expensive. And because

01:03:40 ◼   ► so few people even know about what we're talking about, the fact that the MacBook Air comes

01:03:44 ◼   ► at non-native res out of the box, people don't even know that. So it's not even like it's

01:03:48 ◼   ► a selling proposition where you're pushing people up to the high-end line with that.

01:03:51 ◼   ► I just, at a certain point, not having native res even on your cheapest laptop becomes silly.

01:03:56 ◼   ► We're not at that point yet, but we're getting close.

01:03:58 ◼   ► And I feel like with the 15-minute MacBook Air,

01:03:59 ◼   ► it's a chance for Apple to take that next step up.

01:04:03 ◼   ► - So, on upgrade, when I guessed it,

01:04:05 ◼   ► I think it was last week,

01:04:07 ◼   ► we discussed this rumor about a compute card.

01:04:11 ◼   ► And there were references for this

01:04:13 ◼   ► found in the iOS 16.4 beta.

01:04:15 ◼   ► And Mike and I had a conversation trying to figure out,

01:04:18 ◼   ► what does that even mean?

01:04:19 ◼   ► And I don't think we came up

01:04:20 ◼   ► with any particularly great conclusions,

01:04:22 ◼   ► or solid conclusions.

01:04:24 ◼   ► What is this about?

01:04:25 ◼   ► Is this something for the Mac Pro or is this something else entirely?

01:04:28 ◼   ► So this is such an age-old rumor for Apple stuff, but I think for computers in general,

01:04:35 ◼   ► because it's like a sci-fi thing, right?

01:04:36 ◼   ► I remember back, I guess this was around the PowerPC time perhaps, when the Mac was transitioning

01:04:42 ◼   ► to PowerPC, and especially when the G5 was rumored to be coming out after the G4.

01:04:48 ◼   ► It's an evergreen rumor, and the idea is that it's some kind of powerful computer that gets

01:04:53 ◼   ► more powerful the more kind of building blocks you buy and plug into it.

01:04:57 ◼   ► And it's a thing that makes sense to non-technical people, but anyone who has ever done programming

01:05:02 ◼   ► or ever studied computer science and understands just the basic theoretical limits of parallelism

01:05:09 ◼   ► and then the financial and practical limits of wide buses that are very fast and what

01:05:16 ◼   ► kind of intertexts are needed, different components, it very quickly becomes the realm of fantasy

01:05:22 ◼   ► to think that you're going to have just a bunch of these interchangeable modules and

01:05:25 ◼   ► you'll click them together and if you want your computer to be more powerful you just

01:05:29 ◼   ► click two more modules on it and it gets twice as fast because you had two modules and you

01:05:32 ◼   ► put two more and now you have four and it's just things don't scale that way.

01:05:37 ◼   ► If you look at what the speeds are and the interconnects between a computer and its caches

01:05:41 ◼   ► and its memory and its SSD and how all those buses work and the idea that you're going

01:05:45 ◼   ► to make one backbone that carries everything and will plug things into it and it's like

01:05:48 ◼   ► I mean, anything's possible if you give enough money,

01:05:51 ◼   ► but not at prices consumers are going to spend.

01:05:55 ◼   ► Even at the super computer level,

01:05:56 ◼   ► this stuff is very expensive and very difficult to do

01:05:59 ◼   ► in a way that the interconnect does not cause bottlenecks

01:06:01 ◼   ► and give you diminishing returns.

01:06:03 ◼   ► So this compute card rumor, people quickly said,

01:06:06 ◼   ► this is for the Mac Pro, you'll be able to buy a Mac Pro

01:06:09 ◼   ► and it'll come with one M2 Ultra,

01:06:11 ◼   ► but if you want it to be faster,

01:06:12 ◼   ► you can buy a compute module that has another M2 Ultra

01:06:14 ◼   ► and it's like, well, if you want two computers,

01:06:16 ◼   ► just get two Mac Minis.

01:06:17 ◼   ► Like, I mean, do you want two computers?

01:06:19 ◼   ► 'Cause two computers sitting next to each other,

01:06:21 ◼   ► unless you can split up your video render

01:06:22 ◼   ► between the two of them, which is possible,

01:06:24 ◼   ► you know, you can farm out the job and blah, blah, blah,

01:06:25 ◼   ► but there is some overhead to that.

01:06:27 ◼   ► You don't magically get twice as fast

01:06:28 ◼   ► by putting two SOCs in there.

01:06:30 ◼   ► It's like, how do they talk to each other?

01:06:31 ◼   ► How do they have memory coherence?

01:06:32 ◼   ► Like, this is not something new,

01:06:34 ◼   ► but in sci-fi, it's cool to think that everything is modular

01:06:38 ◼   ► and if you don't have to think about what happens

01:06:39 ◼   ► when you plug a module in, if you're just a user

01:06:41 ◼   ► reading a book about sci-fi or whatever,

01:06:42 ◼   ► you're like, I'll just plug it in

01:06:44 ◼   ► and everything will be faster.

01:06:45 ◼   ► But if you're someone who has to design this,

01:06:47 ◼   ► you're like, "Wait, so how does that work?

01:06:49 ◼   ► How do they share information and resources and IO,

01:06:54 ◼   ► and how do they interact with memory?"

01:06:56 ◼   ► And you've got a non-uniform memory architecture

01:06:59 ◼   ► where some memory is more distant than others,

01:07:00 ◼   ► and it's like overlapping cache hierarchies

01:07:03 ◼   ► and cache coherence between the CPUs

01:07:04 ◼   ► and how do jobs bounce around it?

01:07:05 ◼   ► It's like, and on and on and on.

01:07:07 ◼   ► Part of the reason that Apple's SOCs

01:07:09 ◼   ► are as amazing as they are

01:07:10 ◼   ► is because they are systems on a chip,

01:07:12 ◼   ► where within that system on a chip,

01:07:15 ◼   ► you've got your memory,

01:07:16 ◼   ► you've got all your computing resources,

01:07:17 ◼   ► you've got everything locally, you know where everything is,

01:07:19 ◼   ► and you can optimize all the paths between them

01:07:22 ◼   ► to be as efficient as possible,

01:07:25 ◼   ► because everything is close together

01:07:26 ◼   ► and everything is designed by the same party.

01:07:28 ◼   ► Once you say, oh, there's gonna be another physical box

01:07:30 ◼   ► that's gonna plug into a plug,

01:07:32 ◼   ► now you're sipping through a straw.

01:07:34 ◼   ► You're like, well, we won't make it a straw,

01:07:35 ◼   ► we'll make it really wide.

01:07:36 ◼   ► Well, now you're spending lots and lots of money.

01:07:38 ◼   ► So this compute card stuff has an idea

01:07:41 ◼   ► that it's going to be a thing to make the Mac Pro faster.

01:07:44 ◼   ► daughter cards for, or whatever you want to call them,

01:07:47 ◼   ► for the Mac Pro that add computing.

01:07:50 ◼   ► Sure, we have that FPGA thing, the afterburner.

01:07:53 ◼   ► You can buy cards to accelerate video things.

01:07:55 ◼   ► They're called video cards.

01:07:56 ◼   ► I don't know if Apple will support those, we'll see.

01:07:58 ◼   ► (laughs)

01:07:59 ◼   ► There are cards that you can plug in

01:08:01 ◼   ► that will do a specific task faster,

01:08:04 ◼   ► but the idea that you'll just be able

01:08:06 ◼   ► to make the whole computer twice as fast

01:08:08 ◼   ► by plugging in something that is basically

01:08:10 ◼   ► a second Mac Pro on a card.

01:08:12 ◼   ► If you plug in a second Mac Pro on a card,

01:08:13 ◼   ► you've got a second Mac Pro, which is fine and well and good and probably costs you a

01:08:17 ◼   ► lot of money, but that's kind of like the old 486 card that you can plug into a Mac.

01:08:21 ◼   ► Now my Mac can run Windows things.

01:08:23 ◼   ► Yeah, because you plugged in a 486 PC into your Mac.

01:08:25 ◼   ► So now you have two computers in one, which is great, but you didn't just make your Mac

01:08:28 ◼   ► twice as fast.

01:08:29 ◼   ► So I basically entirely discount the fantasy rumor of just adding resources to your Mac

01:08:36 ◼   ► Pro by plugging in compute cards.

01:08:38 ◼   ► I don't discount the idea of cards that you can plug in that can do a special job faster,

01:08:42 ◼   ► because again the afterburner card does that and there's a long history of cards

01:08:45 ◼   ► that you plug into a Mac Pro that can do a special job faster on behalf of the

01:08:48 ◼   ► host computer. That makes perfect sense even if that card has some other SOC on

01:08:54 ◼   ► it like a specially made SOC that just has neural engines all over it, right?

01:08:57 ◼   ► If Apple wanted to make that they could and that is a reasonable application of

01:09:01 ◼   ► an accelerator card where you would farm out a job to the accelerator card it

01:09:05 ◼   ► would do the ML job the ML card would might even have its own memory kind of

01:09:08 ◼   ► like GPUs have VRAM or whatever,

01:09:11 ◼   ► and then it would give you the result back.

01:09:13 ◼   ► But the idea that there would be two peer SOCs

01:09:15 ◼   ► that are exactly the same,

01:09:16 ◼   ► and they would magically make your computer twice as fast,

01:09:19 ◼   ► not gonna happen, so don't worry about that.

01:09:21 ◼   ► All that said, I don't think that's what

01:09:23 ◼   ► this compute card thing is.

01:09:25 ◼   ► I don't know what it is, but it's kind of related

01:09:29 ◼   ► to the rumors we've heard about like the AR/VR headset

01:09:33 ◼   ► and how, whether all the computing is going on

01:09:36 ◼   ► inside the AR/VR headset or whether your phone is doing some of it or whether there's an

01:09:41 ◼   ► external compute module that you have to connect it to or something.

01:09:45 ◼   ► Maybe it's some leftover from that.

01:09:49 ◼   ► Maybe the AR/VR headset will work that way somehow with a compute card that you can plug

01:09:52 ◼   ► into a Mac Pro to do development work when you're projecting onto the headset.

01:09:57 ◼   ► Or maybe it's something really boring that's unrelated to either one of these things.

01:10:00 ◼   ► The fact that it's in the iOS 16 4.4 beta doesn't mean that it's a phone feature.

01:10:05 ◼   ► It just means that the compute card might run iOS because if iOS has references to compute

01:10:10 ◼   ► card, iOS would have to run on the compute card and so it would have to know about the

01:10:13 ◼   ► compute card the same way that iOS probably has references to the studio display because

01:10:17 ◼   ► apparently inside the studio display is a little version of iOS running all the speakers

01:10:23 ◼   ► and the camera and all the other stuff.

01:10:25 ◼   ► I'm assuming the compute card thing is way way way way less exciting than people think

01:10:29 ◼   ► it is but until and unless Apple releases something related to this we can speculate.

01:10:34 ◼   ► try to tamp down the idea that you're going to plug modules into your Mac Pro

01:10:38 ◼   ► to make it twice as fast. Noted. I'll be aware of that when I buy my Mac Pro

01:10:43 ◼   ► for $80,000. If they ever ship it. If they ever ship it. And it will take, you know,

01:10:49 ◼   ► 1,500 watts to power it because... Small price to pay, am I right, Jon? Yeah. We are

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01:12:36 ◼   ► (upbeat music)

01:12:39 ◼   ► - Hey, so do you need us for this next thing

01:12:41 ◼   ► or can Marco and I just like come back in an hour?

01:12:43 ◼   ► - I mean, I don't know, like as I said,

01:12:45 ◼   ► I had a two day break in my COVID isolation

01:12:49 ◼   ► where I could unpack all the boxes

01:12:52 ◼   ► that had arrived in my house and have fun with my little project.

01:12:55 ◼   ► I talked about it last week.

01:12:57 ◼   ► I said I had a bunch of boxes arrive to upgrade my sound system, but I hadn't been able to

01:13:01 ◼   ► unpack them yet and eventually I wouldn't.

01:13:02 ◼   ► I would talk about it.

01:13:03 ◼   ► So I did do what I could in that two day period.

01:13:06 ◼   ► I didn't know it was going to be a two day period, but practically speaking I didn't

01:13:09 ◼   ► have time to complete it, but I figure I'll just give an overview of what I did.

01:13:14 ◼   ► To review, my project was upgrade my sound system because I bought a new TV and a new

01:13:20 ◼   ► receiver and a new Blu-ray player recently, and I've talked about that on the show,

01:13:24 ◼   ► I didn't buy new speakers.

01:13:26 ◼   ► My speakers are very old, they're very small, they're fairly cheap, and I figured

01:13:29 ◼   ► every other part of my system has been updated, I should update the speakers too.

01:13:35 ◼   ► And it wasn't just like, "Oh, I should just do it because I just need to spend

01:13:37 ◼   ► money."

01:13:38 ◼   ► It was, I felt like they were not holding up their end of the bargain in the television

01:13:42 ◼   ► and movie watching experience.

01:13:43 ◼   ► Not that they were bad, but now my TV was so much better, and the speakers, the speakers

01:13:49 ◼   ► It's 4K now, my Blu-ray player is 4K, and the speakers, they're fine.

01:13:54 ◼   ► It was a 5.1 system.

01:13:56 ◼   ► I didn't put a link in here, Casey, but I'll see if I can find one to my 5.1 system.

01:14:00 ◼   ► I think they still sell it.

01:14:02 ◼   ► It's pretty cheap, it comes with all the speakers you need, it comes with front, left, right,

01:14:07 ◼   ► and back surrounds, and a center channel, and a subwoofer.

01:14:13 ◼   ► But they're small.

01:14:14 ◼   ► These are small speakers.

01:14:15 ◼   ► I like the fact that they were small because originally I was like, "Oh, how am I going

01:14:18 ◼   ► even find room for 5x1 speakers in here, is my family going to accept it?"

01:14:22 ◼   ► So it was good that they were small, but small also means not great sound reproduction.

01:14:29 ◼   ► Obviously none of these small speakers have any bass, that's where the subwoofer comes

01:14:31 ◼   ► in, but subwoofer trying to, you know, cheap subwoofer trying to fill in the bass for all

01:14:35 ◼   ► these tiny speakers.

01:14:37 ◼   ► And practically speaking, one of the things that would always come up, and I talked about

01:14:39 ◼   ► this when I was setting up my receiver is, people complain that they can't hear the dialogue.

01:14:43 ◼   ► Now that's not just my sound system, there's many articles about how sound mixing in television

01:14:47 ◼   ► movies and making it harder and harder to hear dialogue.

01:14:49 ◼   ► I thought that your surround system with your center channel was supposed to make that a

01:14:53 ◼   ► problem of the past because I don't have that problem with my basic two channel stereo setup.

01:14:57 ◼   ► You don't watch movies or TV shows or at least not recent ones.

01:15:00 ◼   ► What are you talking about?

01:15:03 ◼   ► You're watching sitcoms.

01:15:04 ◼   ► I know you can hear the dialogue there and the laugh track.

01:15:07 ◼   ► I know you're watching Last of Us with Tiff though.

01:15:09 ◼   ► That's good that you're kidding me.

01:15:10 ◼   ► Yeah, I'm watching Last of Us.

01:15:12 ◼   ► We're watching New Girl.

01:15:13 ◼   ► That's not that old.

01:15:14 ◼   ► You're not watching Christopher Nolan movies where everybody mumbles.

01:15:16 ◼   ► So the center channel, as I talked about with our receiver,

01:15:21 ◼   ► really does help there because you know where the dialogue's

01:15:24 ◼   ► coming from.

01:15:25 ◼   ► It's coming from the center channel.

01:15:26 ◼   ► And you can do what I did, which is turn up

01:15:28 ◼   ► the center channel, which makes the dialogue louder

01:15:31 ◼   ► than the other stuff.

01:15:32 ◼   ► Because if you just turn up the volume,

01:15:33 ◼   ► everything gets louder.

01:15:34 ◼   ► And if it's mixed poorly-- again,

01:15:36 ◼   ► the problem is not necessarily the speakers involved.

01:15:38 ◼   ► But if it's mixed in such a way that the dialogue is overwhelmed

01:15:42 ◼   ► by the other sound effects, just turning up the volume

01:15:44 ◼   ► doesn't help because it just makes everything louder.

01:15:46 ◼   ► So having a center channel,

01:15:47 ◼   ► you can just turn up the center channel

01:15:49 ◼   ► and pretty much just the dialogue will be there.

01:15:51 ◼   ► And that really does help.

01:15:52 ◼   ► But it's not just that, it's not just the center channel.

01:15:55 ◼   ► My center channel speaker is small.

01:15:58 ◼   ► And also, if you've seen the diagram of my room

01:16:02 ◼   ► that we talked about last week,

01:16:03 ◼   ► I've got two couches in my room.

01:16:04 ◼   ► And when we'd have,

01:16:05 ◼   ► like when my family was visiting for the holiday

01:16:06 ◼   ► or whatever, even just my local family,

01:16:09 ◼   ► just sitting around at the various seats in the couch,

01:16:11 ◼   ► especially if someone wants to lay on one couch,

01:16:13 ◼   ► they take up half the couch and they have a dog with them.

01:16:15 ◼   ► so two other people on the other couch,

01:16:16 ◼   ► we are spread pretty widely in our weird room

01:16:19 ◼   ► around the television screen, right?

01:16:22 ◼   ► And the center channel speaker

01:16:25 ◼   ► is only really pointing at one person.

01:16:27 ◼   ► And if you have a cheap, small center channel speaker

01:16:31 ◼   ► without sort of a wide dispersion,

01:16:33 ◼   ► the person who's sitting in the quote unquote good seat

01:16:36 ◼   ► can hear the dialogue fine.

01:16:37 ◼   ► But the people in the other seats feel like

01:16:39 ◼   ► they don't hear it as well,

01:16:40 ◼   ► because first of all, the volume is lower,

01:16:42 ◼   ► and second of all, who knows which frequencies

01:16:44 ◼   ► they're reaching them, right?

01:16:45 ◼   ► So you can turn up the volume,

01:16:46 ◼   ► but then the person sitting in the good seat

01:16:48 ◼   ► says the dialogue's too loud now, right?

01:16:50 ◼   ► So these are the problems I was solving.

01:16:52 ◼   ► Better sound system in terms of just like,

01:16:54 ◼   ► just better sound overall, right?

01:16:55 ◼   ► Not small, tiny speakers that can't reproduce

01:16:58 ◼   ► lots of frequencies.

01:16:59 ◼   ► And also, and you know, better dialogue,

01:17:01 ◼   ► better clarity of dialogue,

01:17:02 ◼   ► but also better in more seating positions,

01:17:05 ◼   ► which means a speaker that is able to send

01:17:08 ◼   ► the same sound information to a wide array of people,

01:17:13 ◼   ► Instead of just a beam that goes straight out from the speaker, more of a fan shape

01:17:17 ◼   ► so that if you're sitting directly in front of it, offset by 5 degrees, 10 degrees, 15

01:17:22 ◼   ► degrees, it still sounds more or less the same.

01:17:24 ◼   ► So these were my goals with this system.

01:17:26 ◼   ► Oh, and also don't spend a lot of money, obviously.

01:17:29 ◼   ► And don't be humongous, right?

01:17:30 ◼   ► Because I can't, I can't, you know, I have no place to put any speakers, let alone big

01:17:34 ◼   ► giant speakers.

01:17:37 ◼   ► And that was my, you know, my COVID research project.

01:17:40 ◼   ► And I had a tech podcast host twist thrown in here, which I can't complain about because

01:17:48 ◼   ► it is my privilege to be in this position, but it was nevertheless a confounding factor

01:17:53 ◼   ► in my decision-making process.

01:17:55 ◼   ► A nice person who works for a speaker company passed along a friends and family discount

01:18:00 ◼   ► to me for a couple of particular brands of speakers.

01:18:05 ◼   ► And the discount was substantial.

01:18:07 ◼   ► - It's a problem to have.

01:18:08 ◼   ► - It's like those elf puzzle problems.

01:18:10 ◼   ► It's like you have to find speakers

01:18:13 ◼   ► that aren't that expensive, that fit in your room,

01:18:15 ◼   ► that have wide dispersion for the center channel

01:18:18 ◼   ► audio clarity and are better than your existing ones

01:18:21 ◼   ► and aren't that expensive and oh, by the way,

01:18:23 ◼   ► these particular brands are way cheaper than other ones.

01:18:27 ◼   ► And it really confounded things 'cause you can't just shop,

01:18:31 ◼   ► I'll just shop based on price and features.

01:18:33 ◼   ► Every time you shop based on price and features,

01:18:34 ◼   ► like oh, but is this one of those ones that's cheap?

01:18:37 ◼   ► Now suddenly it raises in esteem,

01:18:38 ◼   ► it's like, or maybe you can shop the next level up

01:18:41 ◼   ► in that product line, but maybe you should shop down

01:18:43 ◼   ► and save some money and spend the money

01:18:45 ◼   ► and other things that made everything so much harder for me.

01:18:47 ◼   ► I know, boo hoo me, you got a big discount on speakers.

01:18:49 ◼   ► It's mostly so hard to pick.

01:18:51 ◼   ► (laughing)

01:18:52 ◼   ► So, one of the first things I encountered in my research

01:18:56 ◼   ► was trying to find people who talk about the issues

01:18:59 ◼   ► that I was saying.

01:18:59 ◼   ► You know, the centerpiece haha of my system

01:19:04 ◼   ► was going to be the center channel speaker.

01:19:06 ◼   ► People don't think about that in a 5.1 system because they think about like the glory speakers,

01:19:10 ◼   ► the left and right channel for your stereo or whatever.

01:19:11 ◼   ► But when you're watching television and movies, the center channel is where it's at.

01:19:16 ◼   ► Yes, all the dialogue comes through there.

01:19:18 ◼   ► Lots of other sounds come through there too.

01:19:19 ◼   ► It's the main sort of like central sound of the show.

01:19:23 ◼   ► It's not like listening to stereo music where the left and right channels are the stars.

01:19:27 ◼   ► The center channel is the star on television shows and often a lot of movies.

01:19:31 ◼   ► So if you're going to spend a lot of money on your 5.1 system, do not skimp on the center

01:19:35 ◼   ► channel that is a very important channel.

01:19:38 ◼   ► The thing that I found and was confirmed by a video that I'll link in the show notes is

01:19:41 ◼   ► that most companies that sell speakers also believe that the left and right channel are

01:19:46 ◼   ► the glory channels and do not care about the center channel and they make weird bad speakers

01:19:51 ◼   ► for center channels compared to their cellular channels, right?

01:19:55 ◼   ► Because for two reasons.

01:19:57 ◼   ► One, the center channels are often intended to be laid on their side for obvious packaging

01:20:01 ◼   ► reasons and that messes with speakers especially if you're like oh we have our

01:20:05 ◼   ► special fancy audio engineers and they made this amazing speaker for our

01:20:09 ◼   ► stereo speakers right if you lay that speaker on its side all the careful you

01:20:14 ◼   ► know engineering they did to make the sound dispersion work is now sideways

01:20:18 ◼   ► like it was made to be uniform at a certain height for you know listening

01:20:23 ◼   ► for people sitting in front of them with the expectation that speaker is

01:20:26 ◼   ► vertical but when you put that speaker on its side now its dispersion pattern

01:20:29 ◼   ► is on its side, unless you're laying on your side as well, things aren't going to work

01:20:32 ◼   ► quite the same way.

01:20:34 ◼   ► So that's one problem.

01:20:35 ◼   ► Second problem is, center channel speakers are often smaller.

01:20:38 ◼   ► Again, for obvious reasons, people need to stick them in their entertainment center,

01:20:41 ◼   ► they want to put them under their TV, you can't make them 20 feet tall unless you're

01:20:45 ◼   ► one of the real home audio people, like the, what do you call it, home theater people,

01:20:50 ◼   ► the thing that the fancy home theater people do is they do what they do at movie theaters,

01:20:54 ◼   ► which is the center channel speakers are behind the screen, which is acoustically transparent,

01:20:59 ◼   ► they're like the size of refrigerators.

01:21:00 ◼   ► - Wait, what?