The Accidental Tech Podcast

156: A Mac on Fire


00:00:00   I have not looked at the show notes by [TS]

00:00:01   the way so whatever we're talking about [TS]

00:00:03   going to be suppressed me your job you [TS]

00:00:05   try to use a ipad full-time so it's [TS]

00:00:07   basically all you today so it looks like [TS]

00:00:09   all right we're going boy we sure got a [TS]

00:00:14   lot of feedback about last week's [TS]

00:00:17   episode like a lot and this you know so [TS]

00:00:20   last week's episode we were especially [TS]

00:00:22   unusually critical of apple and in [TS]

00:00:25   particular their UI design it recently [TS]

00:00:29   especially things like the apple TV and [TS]

00:00:31   the Photos app we have so many responses [TS]

00:00:34   from that and they are split right down [TS]

00:00:37   the middle [TS]

00:00:38   it was a very polarizing episode of [TS]

00:00:40   about half of the comments said I can't [TS]

00:00:44   believe you are still you're so negative [TS]

00:00:46   about Apple I'm getting so tired of this [TS]

00:00:48   i can I just can't listen anymore this [TS]

00:00:50   is I just can't take it anymore I can't [TS]

00:00:52   take the negativity and the other half [TS]

00:00:55   was I am so happy you guys are finally [TS]

00:00:58   saying all this stuff for that you are [TS]

00:01:00   drawing attention to this problem that i [TS]

00:01:02   also agree with or have or thank thank [TS]

00:01:05   goodness I'm so happy you you covered [TS]

00:01:07   this including people in apple but said [TS]

00:01:10   they were very happy that we covered it [TS]

00:01:11   so I don't know what to think about that [TS]

00:01:14   did you actually count them I've meant [TS]

00:01:17   to count them as well because i felt [TS]

00:01:18   like it was definitely was it was it was [TS]

00:01:20   not lopsided one way or the other but [TS]

00:01:21   I'm like you know you like your [TS]

00:01:23   perception of the feedback is different [TS]

00:01:25   like maybe I'm thinking am I weighing [TS]

00:01:27   the ones that agree with me too much or [TS]

00:01:29   am I weighing the ones that disagree [TS]

00:01:30   because they feel bad too much like [TS]

00:01:32   sighs you know I should just count them [TS]

00:01:33   but I of course i never got around to it [TS]

00:01:35   but I should go back and do that to say [TS]

00:01:37   visit my impression just based on feel [TS]

00:01:39   was that it was more slightly more [TS]

00:01:43   supporters than detractors but I you [TS]

00:01:47   know I could be wrong enough but anyway [TS]

00:01:49   it was definitely not a landslide in one [TS]

00:01:50   direction other and the end like it [TS]

00:01:53   wasn't so much the volume of the [TS]

00:01:54   feedback as each piece of feedback was [TS]

00:01:57   very emphatic about whatever their point [TS]

00:01:59   was you they really really loved it and [TS]

00:02:01   are like thank God for our that was a [TS]

00:02:03   great episode or the best episode ever [TS]

00:02:05   or [TS]

00:02:05   ever or the exact opposite that was the [TS]

00:02:07   worst ever i hate you all goodbye and [TS]

00:02:10   yeah it's funny I didn't count either [TS]

00:02:12   but I'm but my conclusion was nearly [TS]

00:02:14   identical my conclusion was it was split [TS]

00:02:17   really close to 50 50 I would actually [TS]

00:02:19   say it was slightly more you guys need [TS]

00:02:22   to stop whining and slightly less oh [TS]

00:02:25   thank goodness somebody's saying it but [TS]

00:02:28   it was near as makes no difference to [TS]

00:02:30   5050 and and I was I don't know is a [TS]

00:02:34   little bit sad to see so many people [TS]

00:02:36   upset about it but by and large I felt [TS]

00:02:40   like the feedback was certainly [TS]

00:02:41   polarizing like market said yeah I felt [TS]

00:02:44   better about even even though the people [TS]

00:02:45   who didn't like me you like it you like [TS]

00:02:47   it like it like this you know everyone's [TS]

00:02:49   entitled to their opinion right but but [TS]

00:02:50   i really felt like a you know as we've [TS]

00:02:52   been talking about these various issues [TS]

00:02:53   related to apple that of all the [TS]

00:02:55   episodes we've had that have touched on [TS]

00:02:57   these topics i thought it was fairly [TS]

00:02:59   constructive like that it wasn't just [TS]

00:03:01   complaining for the same plan that we [TS]

00:03:02   were trying to figure out like what is [TS]

00:03:05   you know describe the problem in detail [TS]

00:03:07   just like I did not like I don't like [TS]

00:03:09   good Apple TV it's bad like we had [TS]

00:03:12   reasons right and then and then trying [TS]

00:03:14   to dig and why those reasons there what [TS]

00:03:15   could they do differently like specific [TS]

00:03:18   and constructive right and and without [TS]

00:03:20   any sort of their four apples doom stuff [TS]

00:03:23   and I can you know so i guess for some [TS]

00:03:25   people did the making it specifically [TS]

00:03:27   instructive doesn't matter as much as [TS]

00:03:30   like you know just taking too long and [TS]

00:03:32   her whatever anyway yeah you might try [TS]

00:03:34   to change anyone's mind about what they [TS]

00:03:35   do or don't want to hear in a podcast [TS]

00:03:37   but for my part at least that's what I'm [TS]

00:03:39   always aiming for is if you're going to [TS]

00:03:41   be talking about problems that you're [TS]

00:03:43   having try to do it in a constructive [TS]

00:03:45   way [TS]

00:03:45   try not to be mean-spirited not to get [TS]

00:03:49   carried away but to really get to the [TS]

00:03:51   heart of the matter and try to like [TS]

00:03:52   figure it out imagine that it was your [TS]

00:03:54   problem to solve how would you solve it [TS]

00:03:56   what is what is the way to fix this [TS]

00:03:58   that's what that's what I'm always [TS]

00:03:59   thinking yeah great so I'm hopefully [TS]

00:04:01   we'll have some happier show's over the [TS]

00:04:04   next few but knowing us we'll see how [TS]

00:04:06   hurts and hopes but but speaking of [TS]

00:04:09   happy things [TS]

00:04:10   do we have any follow-up a couple items [TS]

00:04:12   here this last episode as part of our [TS]

00:04:16   critiquing the photos you I am [TS]

00:04:18   general trend on the mac of simplifying [TS]

00:04:20   mac applications one of the quotes i [TS]

00:04:24   threw out that i thought was I still [TS]

00:04:26   don't remember the designers now I [TS]

00:04:27   thought was the guy not the bang & [TS]

00:04:29   olufsen guy maybe daram maybe him [TS]

00:04:32   that's what I think you thought it was [TS]

00:04:34   yeah I thought it was some designer many [TS]

00:04:35   people point out to me after the show [TS]

00:04:36   that the quote i was calling about [TS]

00:04:38   simple as possible but not simpler was [TS]

00:04:41   not a designer of apparently it's [TS]

00:04:43   attributed to albert einstein and look [TS]

00:04:45   this up on Wikipedia or not we could be [TS]

00:04:47   there wikiquote sorry sorry and the [TS]

00:04:49   actual quote as is often the case the [TS]

00:04:52   actual supposed quote that led to the [TS]

00:04:54   thing I was quoting his much more [TS]

00:04:55   complicated and much more [TS]

00:04:57   albert einstein and I guess here is it [TS]

00:05:01   can scarcely be denied the supreme goal [TS]

00:05:03   of all theories to make the irreducible [TS]

00:05:05   basic elements as simple and as few as [TS]

00:05:07   possible without having to surrender the [TS]

00:05:09   adequate representation of a single [TS]

00:05:11   datum of experience that does not roll [TS]

00:05:13   off the tongue like it's more possible [TS]

00:05:14   and no simply write this was brought [TS]

00:05:16   this is from on the method of [TS]

00:05:18   theoretical physics the herbert spencer [TS]

00:05:20   lecture delivered oxford intense 1933 [TS]

00:05:23   alright so that is a real thing that he [TS]

00:05:25   said that was recorded that sounds a lot [TS]

00:05:27   do you know if you if you simplify the [TS]

00:05:28   sense it is much like what i said and [TS]

00:05:30   then the quote investigator com story [TS]

00:05:33   talks about how the quote attributed [TS]

00:05:34   Einstein may have arisen from that and [TS]

00:05:38   the variant is everything should be made [TS]

00:05:39   as simple as possible no simpler and so [TS]

00:05:41   on and so forth so we'll put all these [TS]

00:05:42   links in like all these kind of quotes [TS]

00:05:44   that you've heard attributed to a [TS]

00:05:45   particular person it's hard to know [TS]

00:05:47   where they actually came from but the [TS]

00:05:49   sentiment rings true with enough people [TS]

00:05:51   that this quote in this idea survives [TS]

00:05:53   despite it's a cloudy origins [TS]

00:05:57   alright so tell me about photos crop in [TS]

00:05:59   aspect behavior series so a lot of my [TS]

00:06:02   complaints were focusing on the photos [TS]

00:06:04   application which i use a lot in which I [TS]

00:06:06   still do like but their frustrations [TS]

00:06:07   with the Apple product design in with [TS]

00:06:12   using photos as an example and one of [TS]

00:06:14   one of my major complaint was about [TS]

00:06:15   dealing with the cropping photos and [TS]

00:06:18   reconstructing their aspect ratio and [TS]

00:06:20   stuff and couple people have some [TS]

00:06:21   suggestions to make that easier inside [TS]

00:06:23   the application one of them is the [TS]

00:06:24   keyboard shortcut which if you hold down [TS]

00:06:26   the shift key you can constrain the [TS]

00:06:29   proportion to the original proportions [TS]

00:06:31   circuit with that is you have to hold [TS]

00:06:33   down the shift key before you begin the [TS]

00:06:35   drag unlike a lot of other operations [TS]

00:06:37   and like graphics applications or you [TS]

00:06:39   know that you may be familiar with where [TS]

00:06:40   you start save dragging a selection [TS]

00:06:42   outline and photoshop and if you hit the [TS]

00:06:44   various modifiers to constrain it you [TS]

00:06:46   can switch those modifiers in the middle [TS]

00:06:47   of the drag with this you have to be [TS]

00:06:49   holding down shift before you begin the [TS]

00:06:51   dragon you begin a drag than nothing to [TS]

00:06:53   shift makes any difference so that's [TS]

00:06:55   going to know and there was a theory [TS]

00:06:58   that nobody offered in the feedback that [TS]

00:06:59   were totally expected to get and [TS]

00:07:00   literally nobody sent a lot of people [TS]

00:07:03   selling various keyboard shortcuts but [TS]

00:07:05   nobody sent this idea and it is a reason [TS]

00:07:08   to try to explain why photos every time [TS]

00:07:11   you go to edit an image and the crop [TS]

00:07:13   thing you have to have the aspect menu [TS]

00:07:15   and select original even though it's [TS]

00:07:16   what I want every single time you know [TS]

00:07:18   setting aside the keyboard shortcuts [TS]

00:07:19   forever [TS]

00:07:20   why does it not remember that every time [TS]

00:07:22   I go to crop I want the aspect to be the [TS]

00:07:24   original right why is it just not [TS]

00:07:26   remember like the last thing I used or [TS]

00:07:27   have a preference or something you know [TS]

00:07:29   you don't even need a perfect setting [TS]

00:07:30   just basically when i change that pop-up [TS]

00:07:31   menu leave it that way until I change it [TS]

00:07:34   again and my theory if I had to have [TS]

00:07:36   someone explain that default aside from [TS]

00:07:38   them possibly just saying oh we never [TS]

00:07:39   got around to making that sticky would [TS]

00:07:41   be that if you remember the last setting [TS]

00:07:44   used in applications trying to be as [TS]

00:07:46   simple as fotos is someone go in there [TS]

00:07:49   and for you know how to make a square [TS]

00:07:51   photo or something so they would you [TS]

00:07:52   know figured find the little aspect [TS]

00:07:54   things like Square and resize their [TS]

00:07:55   photo and crop it and be done and then [TS]

00:07:58   three days later come back and go to [TS]

00:08:00   crop a photo and just try dragging the [TS]

00:08:02   little outline and have it all the Sun [TS]

00:08:03   snap to a square and they wouldn't [TS]

00:08:05   understand why is it why does it keep [TS]

00:08:06   snapping to ask where I don't want it to [TS]

00:08:08   be a square or you know or whatever [TS]

00:08:10   thing i wanted i want to do freeform [TS]

00:08:12   cropping here was and they won't [TS]

00:08:14   remember that like the settings don't [TS]

00:08:16   think it's broken or someone different [TS]

00:08:17   will come to the program and not realize [TS]

00:08:19   that it is remembering last thing so [TS]

00:08:20   resetting from zero every single time [TS]

00:08:21   gives what they think is the sensible [TS]

00:08:23   defaults for everybody which is [TS]

00:08:25   unconstrained which I don't know that [TS]

00:08:26   sensible default but in theory you could [TS]

00:08:28   argue that by remembering the last thing [TS]

00:08:31   you picked is making the application [TS]

00:08:32   appear broken to future people who may [TS]

00:08:34   not know about the aspect menu or even [TS]

00:08:36   someone who picked it from the item last [TS]

00:08:38   time do I don't think that's a good [TS]

00:08:39   reason to do it an application like [TS]

00:08:40   photos because i think that is not as [TS]

00:08:43   common as like I think you'll be [TS]

00:08:45   gearing the application to novices too [TS]

00:08:49   much and that you should be realized [TS]

00:08:50   that everyone starts off as a novice but [TS]

00:08:52   if you use photos to your after year [TS]

00:08:53   after year eventually you will learn a [TS]

00:08:55   thing or two and become it's not an [TS]

00:08:57   expert at least proficient user and I [TS]

00:08:59   constant annoyance of having to pick [TS]

00:09:00   that are having to hold down the shift [TS]

00:09:01   here having to do whatever overwhelms [TS]

00:09:03   it's of my opinion is still the same but [TS]

00:09:05   if I had to make the counter argument [TS]

00:09:07   against my opinion try to explain the [TS]

00:09:09   behavior of photos as it exists that's [TS]

00:09:10   one explanation and the other [TS]

00:09:12   explanation a lot of people get which i [TS]

00:09:13   think is not an explanation all i think [TS]

00:09:14   is obvious but we should have pointed [TS]

00:09:17   out in the past so is that part of the [TS]

00:09:20   simplification of these various mac [TS]

00:09:22   applications is to make them look and [TS]

00:09:25   work more like their iOS counterparts I [TS]

00:09:27   was counterparts obviously have to be [TS]

00:09:29   more simple necessarily because they [TS]

00:09:31   have to work on a phone screen in many [TS]

00:09:32   cases obviously you can't have giant [TS]

00:09:35   toolbar buttons you just have room for [TS]

00:09:36   anything you have to simplify right but [TS]

00:09:40   on the mac the whole point of that [TS]

00:09:41   discussion wasn't on the macbook same [TS]

00:09:42   constraints don't hold so for the sake [TS]

00:09:44   of uniformity trying to say we just make [TS]

00:09:45   it look and work the same in both things [TS]

00:09:47   then you just not treating the mac the [TS]

00:09:49   way it should be treated it should be [TS]

00:09:50   the advantage of the mac platform should [TS]

00:09:52   be realized in the applications that run [TS]

00:09:53   them they should it shouldn't be [TS]

00:09:55   constrained to the lowest common [TS]

00:09:56   denominator is defined by phone or [TS]

00:09:57   whatever but also like you know just in [TS]

00:09:59   the same way that like it was the best [TS]

00:10:01   thing for the phone and for the ipad to [TS]

00:10:03   not just have mac OS like shoved onto [TS]

00:10:06   them and and just pour it onto them [TS]

00:10:08   straight in that same way having iOS [TS]

00:10:11   things just shuts down to the mac is not [TS]

00:10:14   appropriate for the mac and we can look [TS]

00:10:16   at the last you know what five years of [TS]

00:10:18   Western releases like basically since [TS]

00:10:20   lion as they have attempted to to shove [TS]

00:10:24   iOS things onto the mac and most of the [TS]

00:10:27   time it really flops it or it's just bad [TS]

00:10:30   I or at best mediocre there's a whole [TS]

00:10:33   bunch of like the iOS application of [TS]

00:10:34   magnitude been tempted and it just it [TS]

00:10:36   just lands flat it just doesn't doesn't [TS]

00:10:39   feel right on the Mac just in the same [TS]

00:10:40   way that the mac you I wouldn't feel [TS]

00:10:41   right on the phone that I think the [TS]

00:10:43   worst one is where they they decided [TS]

00:10:45   they have to have down like maybe not [TS]

00:10:47   down to the pixel but basically the same [TS]

00:10:48   glyphs the same icons the same sort of [TS]

00:10:51   menus like when I see a mac application [TS]

00:10:53   with like basically in ios7 style button [TS]

00:10:55   that is really just plain text like that [TS]

00:10:57   language doesn't [TS]

00:10:58   doesn't fit in the back because the rest [TS]

00:11:00   of the Mac isn't like that most Matt [TS]

00:11:01   Capps and i like that on the mac buttons [TS]

00:11:03   have little outlines and stuff they look [TS]

00:11:05   like little capsules blah blah you know [TS]

00:11:06   there is a design language for the [TS]

00:11:09   controls and experience on the market is [TS]

00:11:10   different from the phone and so on an [TS]

00:11:12   application lands on the mac setting [TS]

00:11:14   aside the functionality and how many [TS]

00:11:16   things are hidden away or if it's [TS]

00:11:17   designed her phone screen they'll just [TS]

00:11:20   change the surface part of it to look [TS]

00:11:22   when act weird and it doesn't fit in and [TS]

00:11:25   so the photo suffers from all that it's [TS]

00:11:26   massively simplified lots of stuff is [TS]

00:11:28   hidden many things are constrained like [TS]

00:11:29   a little pop-up thing with the sharing [TS]

00:11:31   that we talked about this just way too [TS]

00:11:32   small for no reason that the icons or [TS]

00:11:35   sometimes identical to the ones on the [TS]

00:11:37   phone and I think they're trying to make [TS]

00:11:38   a family resemblance but they haven't [TS]

00:11:40   the there has never been in ios7 style [TS]

00:11:43   revolution in the mac you I Yosemite was [TS]

00:11:45   as close as they came with flat and [TS]

00:11:47   stuff out and took away a lot of the [TS]

00:11:49   gloss and everything but it is by no [TS]

00:11:50   means like iOS 7 was on the phone and [TS]

00:11:54   the ipad where it radically changed the [TS]

00:11:57   the look and feel and the way you design [TS]

00:11:59   applications right before we get our [TS]

00:12:01   photos one last item is a lot of people [TS]

00:12:03   suggested keyboard shortcuts i know a [TS]

00:12:04   lot of these I looked him up and help [TS]

00:12:06   someone so forth [TS]

00:12:07   one of the issues that I've complained [TS]

00:12:08   about the past that I should have [TS]

00:12:09   emphasized last time as well is that [TS]

00:12:10   photos likes to ignore my keystrokes not [TS]

00:12:13   all of them most of the time the [TS]

00:12:15   keystrokes land but if I had a penny for [TS]

00:12:17   every time I hit the spacebar nothing [TS]

00:12:18   happened in photos i would have be able [TS]

00:12:21   to buy a nice meal because it like and [TS]

00:12:23   so the same thing for like rotating or [TS]

00:12:25   you know hitting enter to edit or you [TS]

00:12:28   know command keys usually have a higher [TS]

00:12:29   percentage like man harder to rotate [TS]

00:12:31   bird seed crop and stuff like that but I [TS]

00:12:33   don't know where those keystrokes go [TS]

00:12:35   I know if there's a responder chain [TS]

00:12:36   thing falling down and it's not like [TS]

00:12:39   it's just like super mightily delayed [TS]

00:12:41   and I get impatient and hit again [TS]

00:12:43   sometimes I will just say you know what [TS]

00:12:44   I'm not going to do it again maybe did [TS]

00:12:45   register just wait and Eleni after 10 [TS]

00:12:47   seconds you like note that space bar [TS]

00:12:49   just went into the ether so yeah [TS]

00:12:52   keyboard shortcuts are not personally [TS]

00:12:55   not a solution for most people using the [TS]

00:12:56   application because most people never [TS]

00:12:57   going to memorize those keyboard [TS]

00:12:58   shortcuts but even for me know some of [TS]

00:13:00   them the keyboard shortcuts become [TS]

00:13:01   unreliable as well every time i get i do [TS]

00:13:04   you know a drop aspect original with the [TS]

00:13:06   mouse cursor it works every time [TS]

00:13:07   it's just tedious that's why I end up [TS]

00:13:09   doing repeatedly rather [TS]

00:13:10   the temperature of the keystrokes if i [TS]

00:13:12   do the keystrokes and wait for a [TS]

00:13:13   three-count another happens then I end [TS]

00:13:14   up going to the mouse anyway right [TS]

00:13:16   somebody has sent to us and I've [TS]

00:13:17   apologized because I don't know who sent [TS]

00:13:20   this in [TS]

00:13:20   but somebody sent us a bluetooth [TS]

00:13:23   headphone dongle concept which was done [TS]

00:13:25   by sean nelson this is on partly Sean [TS]

00:13:28   dot-com and I'm glad that one of you put [TS]

00:13:30   this in the show notes because I meant [TS]

00:13:31   to and I completely forgot this is [TS]

00:13:33   actually a really interesting idea so [TS]

00:13:34   the the general premise here is hey if [TS]

00:13:37   the iphone 7 really does give up the the [TS]

00:13:41   headphone jack [TS]

00:13:42   then what would Apple do to kind of [TS]

00:13:45   bridge the gap between the the phone not [TS]

00:13:49   having a headphone jack and all of us [TS]

00:13:51   having these for these headphones that [TS]

00:13:53   are probably not bluetooth and so this [TS]

00:13:55   shawn nelson person did a prototype a [TS]

00:14:01   concept of hey here's how Apple could [TS]

00:14:04   fix us what it is is a circular park [TS]

00:14:06   that has a headphone port like you would [TS]

00:14:10   find on the iphone success on one side a [TS]

00:14:13   lightning port on the other for charging [TS]

00:14:15   and it will convert any headphones into [TS]

00:14:18   bluetooth headphones it doesn't appear [TS]

00:14:20   to have any buttons as far as i can tell [TS]

00:14:22   it does have a little clip on it so you [TS]

00:14:23   can clip it to your clothes [TS]

00:14:25   this is a really really clever idea and [TS]

00:14:28   I really think that this is a pretty [TS]

00:14:30   good way to bridge that gap but what did [TS]

00:14:32   you guys think about it so it's [TS]

00:14:34   interesting that it takes the idea take [TS]

00:14:37   the approach of you know putting it on [TS]

00:14:39   the phone end of the cable and basically [TS]

00:14:41   you plug your headphones into this and [TS]

00:14:43   they still have their flow cables as we [TS]

00:14:46   discussed as I brought up a couple weeks [TS]

00:14:47   ago [TS]

00:14:48   you can't really put on the headphone [TS]

00:14:50   end of the cable because there really is [TS]

00:14:53   no standard size or shape cable that [TS]

00:14:55   would fit a large number of headphones [TS]

00:14:57   that would go on that end because they [TS]

00:14:59   all have just these different shape [TS]

00:15:00   plastic surround and everything so [TS]

00:15:01   anyway it is smart to put it on that [TS]

00:15:04   into the cable I will also say that [TS]

00:15:05   these devices already exists you can you [TS]

00:15:07   can go on Amazon you can get things [TS]

00:15:08   because not that would be small [TS]

00:15:10   unattractive and would have apple logos [TS]

00:15:12   on it or we charge by lightning [TS]

00:15:15   those are those will be new here but you [TS]

00:15:17   can get these things already like you [TS]

00:15:19   can go and get him for probably 30 bucks [TS]

00:15:21   you can you can get devices that [TS]

00:15:24   left any end of any audio setup to and [TS]

00:15:28   from bluetooth they're very common and [TS]

00:15:30   some of them even work so it it's not it [TS]

00:15:35   is a weekend we can try this today we [TS]

00:15:37   can see we're already what this is like [TS]

00:15:39   today as long as you don't need to [TS]

00:15:40   charge by lightning [TS]

00:15:41   it is a good idea for the most part [TS]

00:15:43   however first of all having a cable that [TS]

00:15:46   dangles into your clothing but that [TS]

00:15:48   doesn't look into your phone like its it [TS]

00:15:50   kind of seems like another really worth [TS]

00:15:52   having that cable it seems kind of [TS]

00:15:53   clunky but i don't know i mean i-i [TS]

00:15:56   suppose it's better than having to buy [TS]

00:15:57   all new headphones but I don't know it [TS]

00:16:01   seems like a lot of complexity to solve [TS]

00:16:05   this problem if you're going to have a [TS]

00:16:07   wire that goes down into your clothing [TS]

00:16:09   and comes out of your headphones [TS]

00:16:11   why not just have a a wiring adapter [TS]

00:16:14   that can plug directly into the alleged [TS]

00:16:18   lightning port that is headphone [TS]

00:16:19   compatible of the alleged new headphone [TS]

00:16:21   jack atlas iphone 7 you covered all the [TS]

00:16:24   ones i was gonna make which is that [TS]

00:16:25   these things exist already and that it's [TS]

00:16:27   weird to have a wire where you put the [TS]

00:16:29   wire like especially if you have your [TS]

00:16:30   phone in your pocket and then this wire [TS]

00:16:32   with a dongle is also in your pocket [TS]

00:16:33   there like right you have this wire to [TS]

00:16:35   nothing right you have to put it [TS]

00:16:36   somewhere and you know you're gonna have [TS]

00:16:38   a dining hanging from your swinging back [TS]

00:16:39   and forth as you walk so you'll probably [TS]

00:16:41   stick it in the pocket but the reason I [TS]

00:16:43   can think of why I Apple might find a [TS]

00:16:44   solution attractive is that the wired [TS]

00:16:48   after keeping a one-way one-way is that [TS]

00:16:50   if the passive lightning to headphone [TS]

00:16:54   adapter that we've been surmising might [TS]

00:16:57   be possible is not possible then this is [TS]

00:17:00   probably better than trying to make an [TS]

00:17:02   adapter with a chip in it like try to [TS]

00:17:03   make an appt reactive adapter it's more [TS]

00:17:05   a polite than trying to make an active [TS]

00:17:06   adapter probably but even if the passive [TS]

00:17:10   thing does work the passive thing I [TS]

00:17:13   don't know if you can sell the passive [TS]

00:17:14   thing for thirty bucks maybe Apple can't [TS]

00:17:15   but what is Apple can sell this for [TS]

00:17:17   money that this little battery bluetooth [TS]

00:17:20   container thing it's what Apple is good [TS]

00:17:22   at making very small simple things that [TS]

00:17:25   don't really have like an on/off switch [TS]

00:17:26   or any complicated you know but inside [TS]

00:17:28   are very very precise and it uses all [TS]

00:17:31   their expertise in terms of making very [TS]

00:17:32   small chips and batteries and all that [TS]

00:17:35   good stuff and they can sell to you for [TS]

00:17:37   money [TS]

00:17:37   and it does seem like a little more [TS]

00:17:39   elegant solution because then your your [TS]

00:17:40   phone could be in one pocket this [TS]

00:17:41   community out there and they're not [TS]

00:17:42   connected to each other [TS]

00:17:44   I can see them selling it as a more [TS]

00:17:47   advanced version of a wiring adapter so [TS]

00:17:51   and this design looks like every time [TS]

00:17:53   you see like a prototype of looks like [TS]

00:17:55   the little watch it after basically a [TS]

00:17:56   little circular thing we can have a logo [TS]

00:17:57   on it a little think they'll put a giant [TS]

00:17:59   Apple look like that on it but who knows [TS]

00:18:01   it looks like an apple product looks [TS]

00:18:03   like an apple product they could sell as [TS]

00:18:05   ridiculous as it may be especially like [TS]

00:18:07   put a clip on the back of it like this [TS]

00:18:08   guy's got a clip to his pants waist band [TS]

00:18:10   or something that is not a good look [TS]

00:18:12   well i don't know i think it means it [TS]

00:18:15   any worse than clipping an ipod shuffle [TS]

00:18:16   on anyway [TS]

00:18:17   yes it looks plausible to me as an apple [TS]

00:18:19   project i think they can sell it for [TS]

00:18:20   more money so especially if they can't [TS]

00:18:23   do a passive adapter i think this is a [TS]

00:18:25   reasonable option the battle might want [TS]

00:18:27   to consider and as you pointed out if [TS]

00:18:29   apple doesn't do it is a million third [TS]

00:18:30   party ones that are already making it [TS]

00:18:32   they're going to be excited by an iphone [TS]

00:18:33   with no headphone jacks right now we [TS]

00:18:35   have a new audience to advertise to hey [TS]

00:18:37   just get one of those new phones by our [TS]

00:18:38   little square dongle we've been selling [TS]

00:18:41   for five years yet another thing you [TS]

00:18:42   gotta charge and spend 30 books and now [TS]

00:18:45   charges through the charges through [TS]

00:18:47   lighting [TS]

00:18:48   yeah I don't know it's that it seems [TS]

00:18:51   like this is too clunky of a solution [TS]

00:18:53   like I I feel like Apple solutions are [TS]

00:18:55   going to be either by new headphones or [TS]

00:18:58   use this passive wire adapter and you're [TS]

00:19:01   sure that the path of our adapter is [TS]

00:19:02   going to be possible [TS]

00:19:03   no I mean but if that rumor so it was [TS]

00:19:05   true that they were going to have this [TS]

00:19:06   thing it's already possible today if you [TS]

00:19:08   put some smarts in the adapter you can [TS]

00:19:10   do it on today's lightning port with [TS]

00:19:11   some circuitry and some smarts there so [TS]

00:19:14   we already know such thing as possible [TS]

00:19:16   it would be better if it could be [TS]

00:19:17   passive and if the phone could sense it [TS]

00:19:19   through a new revision of the port and i [TS]

00:19:21   agree but i'm just i'm not sure i'm not [TS]

00:19:23   sure how Apple would prioritize that [TS]

00:19:25   like it's really important to make sure [TS]

00:19:26   we can have passive adapters or just [TS]

00:19:28   going to say you know just deal with it [TS]

00:19:30   and getting headphones everybody get new [TS]

00:19:32   headphones in three years you don't care [TS]

00:19:33   anymore [TS]

00:19:34   yes so when we go in tailgate which [TS]

00:19:37   we've spoken about on the show in the [TS]

00:19:38   past I have a TK boom box which is [TS]

00:19:42   actually the model for this [TS]

00:19:44   speaker thing and it doesn't have any [TS]

00:19:49   bluetooth support on it and so years ago [TS]

00:19:52   i got this absolutely terrible like $13 [TS]

00:19:58   blue to AGP tech bluetooth adapter i'll [TS]

00:20:00   put a link in the show notes even though [TS]

00:20:01   i don't think it's available anymore [TS]

00:20:03   it is a total piece of crap but it works [TS]

00:20:06   perfectly and so it's like the build [TS]

00:20:08   quality is terrible it's very chancy [TS]

00:20:10   looking so think of like a USB key that [TS]

00:20:13   has a headphone jack on the outside of [TS]

00:20:16   it and no plugs into a USB on the other [TS]

00:20:18   side so what i do is i plug this into a [TS]

00:20:20   USB port that is on the speaker on this [TS]

00:20:23   TK boombox and this receives bluetooth [TS]

00:20:27   and then i plug the this little [TS]

00:20:31   headphone cable from this bluetooth to [TS]

00:20:35   RCA converter basically into the [TS]

00:20:38   headphone cable goes from there to the [TS]

00:20:39   boombox and suddenly this boom box that [TS]

00:20:41   has no bluetooth support has bluetooth [TS]

00:20:44   supports this is the other direction [TS]

00:20:45   then what we're talking about but to [TS]

00:20:47   your point earlier Marco you can go [TS]

00:20:48   either way with this and it was $13 and [TS]

00:20:51   I mean it is a piece of crap that's been [TS]

00:20:53   working perfectly for three years so I [TS]

00:20:55   guess is it really that crappy ask hall [TS]

00:20:56   but yeah it works well in and so you [TS]

00:21:00   you'd be surprised what you can do for [TS]

00:21:02   not a lot of money [TS]

00:21:03   it's like I was invisible fences for [TS]

00:21:04   your pets on this is invisible wire some [TS]

00:21:06   of the Prancing like like we're saying [TS]

00:21:08   that like what's the point of having a [TS]

00:21:10   little wire with a dongle that you stick [TS]

00:21:12   in your pocket clip on your pants like [TS]

00:21:14   three inches away from your phone is [TS]

00:21:15   like there are still some advantages for [TS]

00:21:17   that absurd scenario mostly is that like [TS]

00:21:20   when you want to take out your phone and [TS]

00:21:21   do something there's not a wire attached [TS]

00:21:22   to it i mean i guess probably people are [TS]

00:21:24   you know we used to listening on wired [TS]

00:21:26   headphones are good at taking out their [TS]

00:21:27   phone to send a quick text or see [TS]

00:21:29   something or whatever without wrangling [TS]

00:21:31   the wire but it is i think i keep [TS]

00:21:33   thinking of it as a as a luxurious [TS]

00:21:34   features like that the fact that the two [TS]

00:21:36   are connected anymore they are now [TS]

00:21:38   connected with an invisible wire even [TS]

00:21:39   though there's a stupid real wire still [TS]

00:21:41   in play because again you're using your [TS]

00:21:43   old headphones and they don't support [TS]

00:21:44   this new phone it is still a slightly [TS]

00:21:46   more luxurious experience to be able to [TS]

00:21:50   take out your phone without a wire [TS]

00:21:52   attached [TS]

00:21:52   do it invisible wires are better than [TS]

00:21:55   wires in general manager you can get [TS]

00:21:56   other wires entirely which I'm apple [TS]

00:21:58   will surely sell your blues headphones [TS]

00:22:00   to do that but if you can't because you [TS]

00:22:02   want to use your old headphones for [TS]

00:22:02   whatever reason a dongle like this as [TS]

00:22:05   ridiculous as it seems i think it does [TS]

00:22:07   actually have offer some material [TS]

00:22:09   advantages to the point where i'm [TS]

00:22:10   thinking like maybe i would go is my big [TS]

00:22:12   problem is like when I'm walking from [TS]

00:22:14   the parking garage to work very often my [TS]

00:22:16   headphone cord gets caught him like a [TS]

00:22:18   door handle going through like the [TS]

00:22:19   garage doors are up in the stairwells at [TS]

00:22:21   work or whatever and ends up yanking the [TS]

00:22:23   headphones either out of my ears are out [TS]

00:22:25   of my phone or both [TS]

00:22:26   I would like it if i could i mean [TS]

00:22:28   obviously my solutions just use [TS]

00:22:29   bluetooth headphones right yeah just use [TS]

00:22:31   bluetooth headphones yeah I i use [TS]

00:22:33   earbuds that I don't want to look like a [TS]

00:22:35   girl with the big thing coming out of my [TS]

00:22:37   ear with that anyway they have smaller [TS]

00:22:39   things that you look get the sennheiser [TS]

00:22:41   and I'm 400ex it is really basic it's [TS]

00:22:44   like 750 bucks as their buds it's not [TS]

00:22:47   everybody know it's it's it's the it's [TS]

00:22:49   the ones [TS]

00:22:49   it's the new version I i use for my for [TS]

00:22:51   any kind of walking and often even [TS]

00:22:53   travel purposes i bring my the president [TS]

00:22:56   which is the sennheiser PX 2 10 BTW [TS]

00:22:59   which is long since discontinued but the [TS]

00:23:01   40mm 400ex is seemingly the exact same [TS]

00:23:04   thing but with a microphone and so you [TS]

00:23:06   can make phone calls on it and these [TS]

00:23:08   sound like complete garbage for music [TS]

00:23:11   purposes but for podcasts they're great [TS]

00:23:12   because they have actual hardware [TS]

00:23:14   buttons on the side so there is so [TS]

00:23:17   they're small they fold up they can fit [TS]

00:23:18   in any large jacket pocket and any bag [TS]

00:23:20   very very easily not a pants pocket too [TS]

00:23:22   big for that but there otherwise they're [TS]

00:23:24   great battery life is great they charge [TS]

00:23:26   for a microUSB you can get new batteries [TS]

00:23:28   for them if you want to like separate [TS]

00:23:29   batteries and it did they have these [TS]

00:23:31   amazingly useful buttons actual buttons [TS]

00:23:34   like not just like a capacitive touch [TS]

00:23:37   pad which is infuriating not some little [TS]

00:23:39   tiny switches you can operate them with [TS]

00:23:40   gloves on in the winter because the [TS]

00:23:41   buttons are nice and big and they make [TS]

00:23:43   sense where they are [TS]

00:23:44   it's i listen to sai listen to these [TS]

00:23:46   exclusively when I'm when I'm walking [TS]

00:23:48   with my uncle always listen to podcast [TS]

00:23:49   of it [TS]

00:23:50   some call it doesn't matter and they are [TS]

00:23:52   so much better than anything else I've [TS]

00:23:54   ever tried for for portable podcast [TS]

00:23:57   listening [TS]

00:23:57   I like my earbuds with my little clicker [TS]

00:23:59   on the wire that's another where the [TS]

00:24:01   clicker go if I didn't have a wire like [TS]

00:24:03   I'm goes to the earcup I just know I [TS]

00:24:05   like to clear clear [TS]

00:24:06   going down where it is anyway the point [TS]

00:24:07   is i think i would actually find this [TS]

00:24:09   thing [TS]

00:24:10   vaguely useful if it existed so much so [TS]

00:24:12   that maybe i should just buy one of [TS]

00:24:13   those ones is already an amazon and give [TS]

00:24:15   it a try but maybe I'll just hold out to [TS]

00:24:17   see if Apple because one for twenty [TS]

00:24:18   bucks will have a bluetooth earbuds and [TS]

00:24:20   maybe that will solve my problems if [TS]

00:24:22   you'd like to not spend two hundred [TS]

00:24:24   dollars on a set up bluetooth headphones [TS]

00:24:26   my beloved Arctic PP 311 that I've had [TS]

00:24:28   for like four years are still going [TS]

00:24:31   strong i use them for music i use them [TS]

00:24:33   for podcast they will not make Marco [TS]

00:24:35   happy I'm sure from an audio files [TS]

00:24:37   perspective they are terrible but if you [TS]

00:24:40   don't have hyper-intense requirements if [TS]

00:24:45   you're not mark warm and they're like 30 [TS]

00:24:47   bucks and might have been going strong [TS]

00:24:49   for years now that i think about it [TS]

00:24:50   bluetooth earbuds wouldn't help because [TS]

00:24:51   again wherever the clicker be I really [TS]

00:24:53   got new so I think the ipod shuffle [TS]

00:24:55   killed me that bottle water cup know [TS]

00:24:57   that my Chapel didn't is not your [TS]

00:24:59   company or bugs are ya use mine with the [TS]

00:25:01   buttons are right there it's it's even [TS]

00:25:03   it's easier and more reliable than using [TS]

00:25:04   the clicker headphones us too much i [TS]

00:25:06   can't i don't know i can't pull that off [TS]

00:25:08   but it is too much to have big giant [TS]

00:25:10   headphones on as big as you think [TS]

00:25:12   try the p3 11 when they also have the [TS]

00:25:14   buttons already 30 just saying anyway [TS]

00:25:18   point is this is this is this concept i [TS]

00:25:21   think it's not entirely really rude and [TS]

00:25:23   of apple doesn't make one maybe I'll buy [TS]

00:25:25   one and give it a try [TS]

00:25:26   hey we should talk about bagels [TS]

00:25:29   Squarespace responsible people [TS]

00:25:30   Squarespace start building your website [TS]

00:25:32   today at squarespace.com enter offer [TS]

00:25:34   code ATP at checkout to get ten percent [TS]

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00:25:48   everything x total sense you just edit [TS]

00:25:50   right there in the page as you're [TS]

00:25:52   looking at it and everything shows up [TS]

00:25:54   previews everything live right there as [TS]

00:25:56   you edit it you can change colors and [TS]

00:25:57   fonts and blocks and layout and [TS]

00:25:59   everything all with a simple easy-to-use [TS]

00:26:01   interface [TS]

00:26:02   although if you want to get down into [TS]

00:26:04   the code and everything you can do that [TS]

00:26:05   too [TS]

00:26:06   they have both injectable CSS and [TS]

00:26:08   JavaScript as well as a whole developer [TS]

00:26:10   platform if you want to go really deep [TS]

00:26:11   into it you get a free domain name if [TS]

00:26:14   you sign up for a whole year up front [TS]

00:26:15   this is really a very powerful platform [TS]

00:26:17   they have over there Squarespace [TS]

00:26:19   tons of people trusted millions of [TS]

00:26:21   customers including some of the biggest [TS]

00:26:22   brands in the world trust with their [TS]

00:26:24   website hosting because they host [TS]

00:26:26   everything for you [TS]

00:26:27   they support everything for you they [TS]

00:26:29   manage everything you don't have to [TS]

00:26:30   manage some installation of a CMS on [TS]

00:26:32   your own servers or anything like that [TS]

00:26:33   they manage it all for you [TS]

00:26:35   they have great support if you need it [TS]

00:26:37   there's people answering email all the [TS]

00:26:38   time from all these different locations [TS]

00:26:41   around the world they have amazing [TS]

00:26:43   support if you need it all this is [TS]

00:26:45   available right now today at [TS]

00:26:46   squarespace.com if you go there today [TS]

00:26:49   make sure to use the offer code ATP to [TS]

00:26:51   get ten percent off your first purchase [TS]

00:26:52   Squarespace build a beautiful so I've [TS]

00:26:56   had a big week so far [TS]

00:26:58   yes so tell us about this what what [TS]

00:27:01   exactly happened in your own words Casey [TS]

00:27:04   described for the audience what happened [TS]

00:27:07   i'm so yeah so this past monday i [TS]

00:27:10   started a new job i took last week [TS]

00:27:13   almost entirely off i had a week of [TS]

00:27:15   self-directed funemployment i went into [TS]

00:27:19   my old job on monday for a few hours [TS]

00:27:21   spent the remainder of last week just [TS]

00:27:24   kind of relaxing and taking a break and [TS]

00:27:26   then on monday i started a new job as an [TS]

00:27:30   iOS developer which is completely scary [TS]

00:27:32   and completely awesome to recap in case [TS]

00:27:35   you're unfamiliar with my professional [TS]

00:27:37   exploits I had been working at a [TS]

00:27:40   consulting firm doing got that stuff for [TS]

00:27:42   between three and a half years and in [TS]

00:27:45   four years and I did like it but my [TS]

00:27:49   heart wasn't really in not anymore i [TS]

00:27:52   really do love c-sharp hand on heart i [TS]

00:27:56   love c-sharp I think csharp is great i [TS]

00:27:58   really do love visual studio I think [TS]

00:28:00   visual studio is great but everything [TS]

00:28:04   around hat i just couldn't care less [TS]

00:28:06   like it just didn't do anything for me [TS]

00:28:08   and when i was hired at this look at [TS]

00:28:11   this job i was told hey you know you're [TS]

00:28:13   gonna be our iOS guy and I was the iOS [TS]

00:28:16   guy which is good but the problem was we [TS]

00:28:19   only ever landed one bit of iOS work and [TS]

00:28:22   as when it's a consulting firm you don't [TS]

00:28:25   typically have the luxury of working on [TS]

00:28:28   what you want to work on you work on [TS]

00:28:30   what you're told to work on [TS]

00:28:31   and that means a client will tell the [TS]

00:28:33   company we will give you money to work [TS]

00:28:35   on this thing and the company tells the [TS]

00:28:37   consultants you know to the company my [TS]

00:28:39   company tells us [TS]

00:28:40   ok it's time to work on this thing and [TS]

00:28:42   it just so happened that the only time i [TS]

00:28:45   ever did and iOS app was several years [TS]

00:28:47   ago when I didn't ipad app and it was [TS]

00:28:49   for all the wrong reasons and executive [TS]

00:28:53   decided we should be in the app store [TS]

00:28:54   even though this we don't really have [TS]

00:28:56   anything useful to offer and so we built [TS]

00:28:58   an app to put in the app store anyway so [TS]

00:29:02   I had been I hadn't been unhappy [TS]

00:29:05   necessarily but I had been terribly [TS]

00:29:07   happy and I just was trying to figure [TS]

00:29:08   out you know what I do and it's hard [TS]

00:29:11   especially when you're consulting but [TS]

00:29:12   it's hard in general I mean I kinda know [TS]

00:29:14   how to write code for iOS UI I know [TS]

00:29:17   objective-c reasonably well for someone [TS]

00:29:20   who doesn't do it professionally I sort [TS]

00:29:22   of kind of ish no Swift hey so it's a [TS]

00:29:26   hard thing to sell any employer on [TS]

00:29:29   teaching you how to do this stuff on the [TS]

00:29:32   job unless the employers for some reason [TS]

00:29:34   incentivized for you to learn this on [TS]

00:29:37   the job so for example if if my [TS]

00:29:39   consulting firm had gotten a contract to [TS]

00:29:41   iOS work and suddenly my employer that [TS]

00:29:44   the consultancy will be hugely [TS]

00:29:46   incentivize for me to learn on the job [TS]

00:29:47   but it's pretty hard for them to sell me [TS]

00:29:51   as a supposed expert when I'm not really [TS]

00:29:54   an expert and typically when you're [TS]

00:29:56   going to a consulting firm you're [TS]

00:29:58   looking for experts so it wasn't it was [TS]

00:30:01   clear to me that was really a workout if [TS]

00:30:03   I really really really wanted to pivot [TS]

00:30:05   to iOS it was good work at the [TS]

00:30:08   consulting firm and so a friend of mine [TS]

00:30:11   a mutual friend between mark and I [TS]

00:30:14   friend named Jamie he had just gone to a [TS]

00:30:18   local company here in town that their [TS]

00:30:21   bread and butter is not iOS but they [TS]

00:30:24   have their own iOS app that is part of [TS]

00:30:27   their product offering and he had been [TS]

00:30:29   saying hey you should come join me to [TS]

00:30:30   come join me to come join me and finally [TS]

00:30:32   I was like you know what I should come [TS]

00:30:34   join you and so I interviewed and I got [TS]

00:30:38   the job I was very plain about what I do [TS]

00:30:40   not know about iOS but what school was [TS]

00:30:42   great about my new gig is they [TS]

00:30:44   recognized [TS]

00:30:45   stay you seem like you're pretty darn [TS]

00:30:47   good engineer one of our engineers are [TS]

00:30:49   saying you're a pretty good engineer [TS]

00:30:50   sorry doctoring and so we have faith [TS]

00:30:53   that whatever you don't know you can [TS]

00:30:55   pick up so let's do this and I started [TS]

00:30:58   this past Monday and I'm really gotten [TS]

00:31:01   into too much code yet but so far so [TS]

00:31:04   good and it is blowing my mind that the [TS]

00:31:08   things that we talked about here and the [TS]

00:31:10   things that I've been pumping into my [TS]

00:31:12   ears by way of Marcos other show and by [TS]

00:31:17   way of yellow corn tuition in by way of [TS]

00:31:20   mobile couch and in so many of these [TS]

00:31:21   other shows [TS]

00:31:22   suddenly this stuff that I've just long [TS]

00:31:24   to do [TS]

00:31:25   I'm now doing and its really really [TS]

00:31:28   exciting and I'm petrified because I'm [TS]

00:31:31   used to it also pretty darn good on a [TS]

00:31:33   developer not the best but pretty darn [TS]

00:31:34   good and I wasn't often scared by the [TS]

00:31:39   things i was asked to do in my [TS]

00:31:41   day-to-day job and now i am not a pretty [TS]

00:31:45   darn good iOS developer i'm i'm at worst [TS]

00:31:49   a rocky and it best in intermediate [TS]

00:31:51   level iOS developer and so I'm reaching [TS]

00:31:55   on this and then that's really really [TS]

00:31:57   scary but i found that that's the best [TS]

00:32:01   way to force myself to learn is to go [TS]

00:32:03   straight into the deep end and just [TS]

00:32:04   learn how to swim so I'm excited I'm [TS]

00:32:08   excited just selfishly because this is [TS]

00:32:10   what I've been wanting to do for a long [TS]

00:32:11   time i'm excited for the show because i [TS]

00:32:14   think even though we don't get that deep [TS]

00:32:16   into the developer topics that often [TS]

00:32:18   it'll be nice to have someone else who [TS]

00:32:20   does this sort of thing for a living [TS]

00:32:21   other the marco and I'm just excited to [TS]

00:32:24   learn something new because I've been [TS]

00:32:26   doing the same stuff for a long time and [TS]

00:32:28   last really new thing i learned if you [TS]

00:32:31   don't count sum react that I was [TS]

00:32:33   dabbling with maybe a year ago was when [TS]

00:32:35   i taught myself node for for my blog and [TS]

00:32:38   that was in 2014 so it's about time for [TS]

00:32:41   me to to get scared and learn something [TS]

00:32:44   new so i don't know if you guys have any [TS]

00:32:45   questions about that if not we can put [TS]

00:32:47   in the parking lot [TS]

00:32:48   don't have my first question David [TS]

00:32:51   parking lot [TS]

00:32:52   I've not seen one yet I have not seen [TS]

00:32:54   yet but I'm sure it's there [TS]

00:32:55   anyway but if you have any questions I'm [TS]

00:32:58   happy to feel them otherwise we can just [TS]

00:32:59   move right along to talk about the tech [TS]

00:33:01   differences of like c-sharp vs [TS]

00:33:04   objective-c and you know the different [TS]

00:33:06   ID and all that stuff whatever but [TS]

00:33:07   setting that aside like getting back to [TS]

00:33:10   the doing consulting work versus doing a [TS]

00:33:13   product [TS]

00:33:14   no I think you covered this in your blog [TS]

00:33:16   post like the idea of the consulting [TS]

00:33:18   work is sometimes you get a crappy job [TS]

00:33:21   but the job ends and sometimes you get a [TS]

00:33:23   good job that job ends too but with [TS]

00:33:25   product work I imagine you know without [TS]

00:33:28   going into details of what kind of [TS]

00:33:29   product you're making your kind of [TS]

00:33:30   company you're working for [TS]

00:33:31   it's conceivable that you could get to [TS]

00:33:34   be in iOS developer dedicated to working [TS]

00:33:36   on a product that does nothing for you [TS]

00:33:39   the product is like dominoes developer [TS]

00:33:42   and i'm working on a product but I don't [TS]

00:33:43   care about this product at all i don't [TS]

00:33:45   have any passion for this product [TS]

00:33:47   I don't you know and the customers who [TS]

00:33:49   use this product not really into the [TS]

00:33:50   product and then how could I do my job [TS]

00:33:52   never gonna really appreciate it because [TS]

00:33:54   it's like you know an industrial machine [TS]

00:33:56   control thing or something where it's [TS]

00:33:57   just not you know I mean and that case [TS]

00:33:59   you would be using new technology you'll [TS]

00:34:00   be learning things you could technically [TS]

00:34:01   be an iOS developer but i'm thinking [TS]

00:34:03   it's like imagine if like your worst [TS]

00:34:06   consulting gig just never end never [TS]

00:34:07   ended so is as part of your decision to [TS]

00:34:10   go to the specific company the idea that [TS]

00:34:11   would like would you care what the [TS]

00:34:13   practice really like is it isn't just [TS]

00:34:15   better that it is a product that you can [TS]

00:34:17   like work on incremental make better [TS]

00:34:18   year over year over year even if it's [TS]

00:34:20   boring product or do you also kinda [TS]

00:34:23   needed to be a product that interests [TS]

00:34:25   you more than like you're at least [TS]

00:34:27   interesting consulting gig you know it's [TS]

00:34:29   a very fair question i think i have to [TS]

00:34:32   reach back just a half step and explain [TS]

00:34:34   that I've been doing some flavor of [TS]

00:34:36   consulting since roughly 2006 it's been [TS]

00:34:39   about a decade now the first couple [TS]

00:34:40   years from 06 28 i was doing government [TS]

00:34:44   contracting which is not exactly [TS]

00:34:45   consulting i was working for a company [TS]

00:34:49   that had a product but the only [TS]

00:34:51   literally the only people that bought [TS]

00:34:53   that product was the US government so [TS]

00:34:55   really what ended up happening was the [TS]

00:34:57   government said hey we want this new [TS]

00:34:59   feature and we said okay we'll do that [TS]

00:35:00   and so is basically consulting after [TS]

00:35:06   that it was just a regular no no aster [TS]

00:35:09   risks honest business consultants and [TS]

00:35:11   from my weight on and i found that there [TS]

00:35:15   have definitely been some projects where [TS]

00:35:17   the client was awesome and the project [TS]

00:35:21   was a lot of fun and eventually what [TS]

00:35:25   ends up happening is as you described [TS]

00:35:27   John the client either can stand on [TS]

00:35:30   their own two feet so to speak or they [TS]

00:35:32   feel like that that product is complete [TS]

00:35:34   enough for now and then they say alright [TS]

00:35:37   thanks for your time we'll see you later [TS]

00:35:39   and that's a total bummer because here's [TS]

00:35:41   something that you really invested in [TS]

00:35:43   the kind of consulting i was doing i [TS]

00:35:45   should also note is typically [TS]

00:35:46   project-based so it was myself in a [TS]

00:35:49   bunch of my co-workers at the consulting [TS]

00:35:51   firm would swoop in do a project and [TS]

00:35:53   swooped out it and of course we would be [TS]

00:35:56   working alongside the client but the [TS]

00:35:59   overwhelming majority of the work was [TS]

00:36:01   done by the people at my consulting firm [TS]

00:36:03   it's not like your individual [TS]

00:36:06   consultants who is just an individual [TS]

00:36:08   contributor it's and this is where the [TS]

00:36:09   staff of thing came in a couple months [TS]

00:36:11   back and so typically the project is [TS]

00:36:14   consulting you know you build this [TS]

00:36:15   project with you people with your [TS]

00:36:16   friends at work and then it's like okay [TS]

00:36:17   thanks and then you leave and that's a [TS]

00:36:19   total bummer [TS]

00:36:20   and even though it's nice to know that [TS]

00:36:24   you have it that that each project is in [TS]

00:36:27   subject to some degree a ticking time [TS]

00:36:29   bomb because eventually it will go away [TS]

00:36:30   both the good and the bad [TS]

00:36:32   it's nice to think about I i really [TS]

00:36:36   wanted to try walking on the grass on [TS]

00:36:40   the other side of the fence and I wanted [TS]

00:36:41   to see is is a product company really [TS]

00:36:44   what I wanted and really what I want and [TS]

00:36:47   let me give you a really weird the [TS]

00:36:49   concrete example of why I wanted this so [TS]

00:36:51   i believe it's my first day it was my [TS]

00:36:54   first day that the new job and we [TS]

00:36:57   actually had this like all hands meeting [TS]

00:36:59   off site which was just pure completely [TS]

00:37:01   coincidental and so we were in a [TS]

00:37:04   different portion of richmond at this [TS]

00:37:06   all hands and then we needed to come [TS]

00:37:08   back to the office afterwards and we [TS]

00:37:12   were traveling from the All Hands i was [TS]

00:37:14   at a hotel to the office and I got stop [TS]

00:37:16   this Lite that typically will take two [TS]

00:37:19   or three cycles for me to get through [TS]

00:37:21   with this [TS]

00:37:21   particular time of day was around [TS]

00:37:23   lunchtime and this is right by a bunch [TS]

00:37:24   of other business right by a bunch of [TS]

00:37:26   businesses and a bunch of eateries so [TS]

00:37:28   everyone's going to or coming back from [TS]

00:37:29   lunch and as I'm sitting at this light [TS]

00:37:32   I'm thinking to myself oh my god this is [TS]

00:37:34   taking so long i got this taking so long [TS]

00:37:35   i have to make up this time because oh [TS]

00:37:37   god I'm sitting here for like 10 minutes [TS]

00:37:39   and it's one thing if you set it alight [TS]

00:37:41   for like a minute you can just kind of [TS]

00:37:42   flubbed that and you know whatever a [TS]

00:37:44   client is going to care if you build [TS]

00:37:46   them for one minute where you weren't [TS]

00:37:47   actually doing work [TS]

00:37:48   this is like 10 minutes and i'm really I [TS]

00:37:50   can't build a client for this 10 minutes [TS]

00:37:52   and so I'm now I have to stay at work 10 [TS]

00:37:54   minutes later than I plant a wait wait [TS]

00:37:57   don't have a timesheet anymore but not [TS]

00:37:59   working for a client anymore [TS]

00:38:01   oh my god i don't have to give a shit [TS]

00:38:03   this takes an hour because i don't have [TS]

00:38:06   to answer to anyone anymore what not [TS]

00:38:08   literally of course we don't mean this [TS]

00:38:10   is magnificent and it's just stupid [TS]

00:38:14   stuff like that [TS]

00:38:15   I'm just kind of I was ready to take a [TS]

00:38:18   break from consulting and who knows [TS]

00:38:20   maybe in a year or two maybe I'll 1099 [TS]

00:38:23   and i'll just go in if you're not an [TS]

00:38:24   American basically i'll be an [TS]

00:38:25   independent consultant and maybe i'll go [TS]

00:38:27   back to a consulting firm who knows but [TS]

00:38:29   for right now all my god it was magical [TS]

00:38:32   not to have to stress about sitting in a [TS]

00:38:34   stupid light for 10 minutes and to come [TS]

00:38:37   back around to Jon's question a little [TS]

00:38:39   more concretely i'm really really amped [TS]

00:38:42   to work on a product period but i agree [TS]

00:38:46   with you John that if the product was [TS]

00:38:47   something like industrial control system [TS]

00:38:49   it was not likely to keep my attention [TS]

00:38:51   very long [TS]

00:38:53   now with that said I I don't intend to [TS]

00:38:55   share what my employer who my employer [TS]

00:38:57   is more what I'm working on [TS]

00:38:58   I don't know it's just I'd prefer to [TS]

00:39:00   keep that that world separate but i will [TS]

00:39:01   say that the particular thing that I'm [TS]

00:39:04   working on [TS]

00:39:04   although it is not for me it is for a [TS]

00:39:08   general audience and depending on what [TS]

00:39:11   lens you use to look at it I genuinely [TS]

00:39:14   think it's it's helping people and I [TS]

00:39:17   think that's pretty cool being able to [TS]

00:39:19   help people and make a difference in [TS]

00:39:20   people's lives a small difference but a [TS]

00:39:22   difference in the last and so because of [TS]

00:39:24   that I in granted i'm still in the [TS]

00:39:26   honeymoon period but i'm very hopeful [TS]

00:39:27   that I'm really really going to enjoy [TS]

00:39:30   working on this and additionally the [TS]

00:39:32   particular company i'm working for the [TS]

00:39:34   particular [TS]

00:39:35   iOS app that i'll be working on it isn't [TS]

00:39:37   great [TS]

00:39:38   it's okay but isn't great but the [TS]

00:39:41   important thing is the company knows [TS]

00:39:42   that it isn't great and they're looking [TS]

00:39:45   to fix it and so I'm getting in on the [TS]

00:39:47   ground floor and being able to influence [TS]

00:39:50   some of those changes in so far as I can [TS]

00:39:54   help make architectural decisions you [TS]

00:39:57   know not as much like oh we should use [TS]

00:39:59   cocoapods vs I'm god what's the other [TS]

00:40:01   one I'm drawing a blank doesn't matter [TS]

00:40:03   who cares it does he have to go copepods [TS]

00:40:04   first Carthage i believe it is going to [TS]

00:40:06   be in charge of all the most boring [TS]

00:40:07   decisions on the software projects right [TS]

00:40:08   yeah well very exactly is gonna be our [TS]

00:40:10   file naming convention [TS]

00:40:11   whoa but you know what i mean like your [TS]

00:40:13   architectural decisions I can work with [TS]

00:40:15   my friend Jamie who is is pretty much [TS]

00:40:17   lead architect I could work with him and [TS]

00:40:19   we have a good rapport because we worked [TS]

00:40:20   together in the past and say hey I [TS]

00:40:22   really like this like that we should go [TS]

00:40:23   that direction or you know this just [TS]

00:40:24   doesn't feel right and and in some ways [TS]

00:40:27   being a little bit ignorant as to how [TS]

00:40:29   iOS development works is kind of an [TS]

00:40:31   advantage for these sorts of discussions [TS]

00:40:32   because i don't have that the background [TS]

00:40:35   knowledge to influence or perhaps taint [TS]

00:40:38   what I think about these decisions and [TS]

00:40:41   so I'm really really amped to work on [TS]

00:40:44   something and work on something for a [TS]

00:40:45   long time which is something which is [TS]

00:40:47   not what I've been doing for the last [TS]

00:40:48   nearly decade does that answer your [TS]

00:40:51   question or did I completely flubbed [TS]

00:40:52   that [TS]

00:40:53   yeah take care what I hadn't even [TS]

00:40:55   thought about the whole time she think [TS]

00:40:56   it shows how much consulting have done [TS]

00:40:58   none but yeah that's gotta be a big [TS]

00:41:00   upgrade and in lifestyle um I got I'm [TS]

00:41:04   feel I've done product work and some [TS]

00:41:06   fashion or another of my entire career [TS]

00:41:08   and it for the most part is better even [TS]

00:41:11   I could even working on a product that [TS]

00:41:12   you're not actually interested in the [TS]

00:41:14   idea of the aforementioned and often [TS]

00:41:15   maligned industrial control software [TS]

00:41:17   that can be interesting to like [TS]

00:41:19   everything can be interesting i think [TS]

00:41:21   that the dark side of product work is [TS]

00:41:23   like like that both the best and the [TS]

00:41:25   worst thing that could ever happen to a [TS]

00:41:26   project you're working on his agency [TS]

00:41:27   become very popular and very important [TS]

00:41:29   to the company and a huge moneymaker you [TS]

00:41:31   think it's not all upside no because [TS]

00:41:33   that means the product will live for a [TS]

00:41:34   long time and we'll have a lot of [TS]

00:41:36   customers and any change to it is [TS]

00:41:38   consequential and if you worked there [TS]

00:41:40   for five years you will it work you know [TS]

00:41:43   if you come five years after that [TS]

00:41:44   happened you will be inheriting a giant [TS]

00:41:46   possibly disgusting-looking codebase [TS]

00:41:48   that nevertheless be treated as the [TS]

00:41:50   golden you know [TS]

00:41:51   yep child and can't be messed with and [TS]

00:41:53   if you were there from the beginning you [TS]

00:41:55   will have created five years worth of [TS]

00:41:56   paint yourself into a corner and making [TS]

00:41:58   dumb decisions that you come to regret [TS]

00:41:59   and now have this giant you know Jenga [TS]

00:42:02   style tower that's a it's teetering but [TS]

00:42:04   nevertheless the entire company is built [TS]

00:42:06   on and you're both responsible for [TS]

00:42:08   having made it this way back when you [TS]

00:42:10   were younger less-experienced you know [TS]

00:42:11   past he was always the worst enemy of [TS]

00:42:13   every programmer and you don't have the [TS]

00:42:15   option to say well you know unless you [TS]

00:42:17   change a different company wanted a [TS]

00:42:19   different project now let's go to [TS]

00:42:20   different products like no this product [TS]

00:42:21   of the company but uh that is what the [TS]

00:42:23   the joys and sorrows of product work but [TS]

00:42:26   you are far from that now especially if [TS]

00:42:28   you are if they have an app now they [TS]

00:42:30   know it's bad so you're kind of getting [TS]

00:42:31   to go in there and clean up just a try [TS]

00:42:33   to keep five years from now Casey in [TS]

00:42:35   mind when you're doing you're gonna get [TS]

00:42:37   the idea and where were like I said we [TS]

00:42:39   re architecting everything and were [TS]

00:42:41   trying to make intelligent decisions as [TS]

00:42:45   to how to do this so that it's [TS]

00:42:46   sustainable so that it's testable which [TS]

00:42:49   i know is marcos favorite thing you know [TS]

00:42:51   unit testing my love you testing [TS]

00:42:54   I test all over my everything yeah [TS]

00:42:55   totally cover exalt my builders can just [TS]

00:42:59   stop [TS]

00:43:00   he's I think he's going to get testing [TS]

00:43:02   religion it's gonna be awesome [TS]

00:43:03   he's gonna be like you know what testing [TS]

00:43:05   is actually useful way to something like [TS]

00:43:06   I don't know what's gonna happen but it [TS]

00:43:08   could happen conceivably oh I i was love [TS]

00:43:10   if I already had testing know as a [TS]

00:43:13   weight as a way to development like it [TS]

00:43:15   you know rather than you like you're [TS]

00:43:16   right lines of code you want to see [TS]

00:43:17   those lines go do the thing you wanted [TS]

00:43:19   to do like not entirely test-driven [TS]

00:43:21   development just getting enough of it [TS]

00:43:23   into video doesn't matter if no one else [TS]

00:43:25   like it doesn't it doesn't even matter [TS]

00:43:26   it's just the way I write code from now [TS]

00:43:28   on it is i think everyone can benefit [TS]

00:43:30   from testing and I feel like you will [TS]

00:43:31   make that you'll turn that corner [TS]

00:43:33   eventually we're just waiting for it to [TS]

00:43:34   happen give an infinite time everyone [TS]

00:43:36   could benefit from testing oh here we go [TS]

00:43:38   now you'll be dead that's what happens [TS]

00:43:40   with that but it's conceivable I could [TS]

00:43:42   say that could happen [TS]

00:43:43   oh yeah I don't think testing is a great [TS]

00:43:46   idea that I don't do [TS]

00:43:47   yeah I think that's probably fair [TS]

00:43:49   summary anything else on the a new job [TS]

00:43:52   any other questions are yes the other [TS]

00:43:54   thing that you should point out because [TS]

00:43:57   there was confusion about it and I [TS]

00:43:59   to bring up as another point is that a [TS]

00:44:00   lot of people think like hey I left my [TS]

00:44:02   my job or I had that work in his big [TS]

00:44:04   corporation like a dilbert or wherever [TS]

00:44:06   and now i'm going indie but you're not [TS]

00:44:10   you know don't quite know what indie [TS]

00:44:12   means of it in the market knows but in [TS]

00:44:14   these meetings because he's basically [TS]

00:44:15   been that for a very long time now but [TS]

00:44:17   India's means like you're gonna stop [TS]

00:44:19   working [TS]

00:44:20   well it depends it's kinda like indie [TS]

00:44:23   rock it's kinda get is sending them for [TS]

00:44:25   retired indie rocker independent movies [TS]

00:44:28   like the look of that term especially [TS]

00:44:29   independent movies like started to warp [TS]

00:44:31   as like small independent movies would [TS]

00:44:34   nevertheless be bankrolled by big [TS]

00:44:35   studios on a development but anyway the [TS]

00:44:37   definition of indy for software is [TS]

00:44:40   basically that you write software for a [TS]

00:44:44   company that you own [TS]

00:44:46   it's been money to a little bit by the [TS]

00:44:48   fact that if all your paychecks come [TS]

00:44:50   with a signature that says Apple [TS]

00:44:52   incorporated at the bottom of it are you [TS]

00:44:53   really in d you still kinda handy [TS]

00:44:55   definition was like yeah even if every [TS]

00:44:57   one of your paychecks designed by Apple [TS]

00:44:59   you're still indeed because you get [TS]

00:45:01   decide everything about the product you [TS]

00:45:03   own the product you just are sort of [TS]

00:45:06   outsourcing your distribution and your [TS]

00:45:08   entire relationship with your customers [TS]

00:45:09   many other things to apple but you're [TS]

00:45:11   still in DC but the bottom line is that [TS]

00:45:12   and also what comes with it is like you [TS]

00:45:15   you run the show you make the decisions [TS]

00:45:17   and you're not running a hundred person [TS]

00:45:19   company like is you know are the heads [TS]

00:45:22   of all the omni group indie no not [TS]

00:45:25   really i've got a company we've got a [TS]

00:45:26   mac software company in iOS software [TS]

00:45:28   company that a lot of people work for [TS]

00:45:29   can you be ended with two people [TS]

00:45:32   probably two or three maybe you're [TS]

00:45:34   pushing it but the idea is that [TS]

00:45:36   essentially you are your own boss or [TS]

00:45:38   something very close to it and so in [TS]

00:45:40   that case if you worked on a project for [TS]

00:45:41   a long time and you kind of got sick of [TS]

00:45:44   it even if it was selling well because [TS]

00:45:45   you're indeed you could say you know i'm [TS]

00:45:47   going to something else now as long as [TS]

00:45:48   the next thing you do also sells well as [TS]

00:45:50   long as you have some sort of transition [TS]

00:45:52   plan for supporting the other one or [TS]

00:45:53   maybe you sell it to somebody like [TS]

00:45:54   market loves to do [TS]

00:45:55   that's fine you can do that whereas if [TS]

00:45:58   you're in a company especially if you're [TS]

00:45:59   like a public company with shareholders [TS]

00:46:01   and everything is scaled up and people [TS]

00:46:02   care about you like well i tried [TS]

00:46:04   different product now this one is [TS]

00:46:05   perfectly fine its profitable but i'm [TS]

00:46:07   kinda bored of it that doesn't happen [TS]

00:46:08   that [TS]

00:46:09   so this is something that the group [TS]

00:46:11   called an arc along time ago the life [TS]

00:46:13   capital T capital L i think it was in [TS]

00:46:16   reference to bring Simmons from stopping [TS]

00:46:18   the newswire development [TS]

00:46:19   he probably sort of in the the post [TS]

00:46:23   Internet age sort of made the time when [TS]

00:46:26   Apple is on an upswing there was a [TS]

00:46:29   resurgent in the old ideas the ideas [TS]

00:46:31   exist for a long time but it was a [TS]

00:46:32   resurgent and the popularization of the [TS]

00:46:34   idea thanks to the internet and blogs [TS]

00:46:36   that if you're a computer programmer who [TS]

00:46:39   like the apple stuff you could make a [TS]

00:46:41   pretty good living for yourself by [TS]

00:46:43   writing programs that other people who [TS]

00:46:45   use apple stuff would buy from you and [TS]

00:46:47   they would give you money and you would [TS]

00:46:48   give them software and if you can get [TS]

00:46:50   enough of them to do that through the [TS]

00:46:51   magic of software like it's not any [TS]

00:46:53   harder work for you to sell an [TS]

00:46:55   application 200 people versus a thousand [TS]

00:46:57   verses potentially a million because [TS]

00:46:59   it's our bits and you copy them and you [TS]

00:47:01   don't have to manufacture them and [TS]

00:47:02   there's no incremental cost him you know [TS]

00:47:04   all the wonderful things about software [TS]

00:47:05   that you can do a certain amount of work [TS]

00:47:07   and the amount of work that you have to [TS]

00:47:10   do does not scale with a number of [TS]

00:47:11   customers you do the work and then if [TS]

00:47:15   ten people buy you the same amount of [TS]

00:47:16   work is it as if 20 or 30-year hundred [TS]

00:47:18   and so people can make really good [TS]

00:47:20   livings selling software they were their [TS]

00:47:21   own boss [TS]

00:47:22   they got to do something good they [TS]

00:47:23   wanted to do they got immense [TS]

00:47:24   satisfaction of that and out of it and [TS]

00:47:27   it was you know that's the life he was [TS]

00:47:29   referring to iOS gave a different view [TS]

00:47:33   of that but at this point I think [TS]

00:47:34   everyone who's involved in this [TS]

00:47:36   ecosystem would agree that is slightly [TS]

00:47:38   harder to live the life it is slightly [TS]

00:47:40   harder to being independent software [TS]

00:47:43   developer who makes the they're living [TS]

00:47:45   doing that if only because the market is [TS]

00:47:47   so much more crowd we talked about this [TS]

00:47:49   on [TS]

00:47:50   maybe this podcast maybe the ones nobody [TS]

00:47:52   distant past of like if you're doing [TS]

00:47:54   something that is really fun and a lot [TS]

00:47:58   of other people want to do it because [TS]

00:47:59   it's fun [TS]

00:48:00   that's going to drive down the value of [TS]

00:48:02   the thing you're doing a bunch of [TS]

00:48:03   students want to make an iOS application [TS]

00:48:06   for fun and give it away for free or [TS]

00:48:08   close to free and you say well but I've [TS]

00:48:11   got to feed my family I can't afford to [TS]

00:48:13   give away you know like like the value [TS]

00:48:15   of what you're doing is being driven [TS]

00:48:16   down because there are more people in [TS]

00:48:18   the market so it makes it harder for a [TS]

00:48:20   regular person who wants a family [TS]

00:48:21   in healthcare and everything to be able [TS]

00:48:24   to make a living as an independent [TS]

00:48:25   software developers not getting to the [TS]

00:48:26   point where it's like being a [TS]

00:48:27   professional athlete were so small now [TS]

00:48:29   can do it but it's getting more to the [TS]

00:48:30   point where it's like a regular job [TS]

00:48:31   where it's not like if you're a decent [TS]

00:48:34   programmer and you find a market needs [TS]

00:48:37   not being met and you sell an [TS]

00:48:38   application you're good to go for 20 [TS]

00:48:40   years you can just keep selling and [TS]

00:48:41   revising an application for 20 years and [TS]

00:48:42   you'll have a healthy lifestyle like [TS]

00:48:44   those days are past because the market [TS]

00:48:45   is just you know too crowded but my [TS]

00:48:50   question for Casey about his new job is [TS]

00:48:52   maybe you didn't think about that now [TS]

00:48:54   because you're like I don't know enough [TS]

00:48:55   about iOS development but my question is [TS]

00:48:57   does that still appeal to you as sort of [TS]

00:49:00   the real polar opposite grass is greener [TS]

00:49:02   on the other side of the fence from [TS]

00:49:04   going from the consulting world-building [TS]

00:49:06   world where you have to go where they [TS]

00:49:08   tell you you have to track your hours [TS]

00:49:09   here you know different clients are your [TS]

00:49:11   masters at various times and the far [TS]

00:49:13   past its side is marcos life where you [TS]

00:49:16   call the shots you decide what you're [TS]

00:49:18   going to make and you build it your way [TS]

00:49:21   on your schedule in your time and find a [TS]

00:49:24   way to make that a viable living that [TS]

00:49:26   ever that this does that still ppl i try [TS]

00:49:29   to find a way to make it a viable living [TS]

00:49:30   it doesn't always work [TS]

00:49:32   I make things my way I call the shots [TS]

00:49:34   but then the market decides whether to [TS]

00:49:36   pay me or not yeah but like you have you [TS]

00:49:38   know if for the most part you've been [TS]

00:49:39   successful doing that like I said it's [TS]

00:49:41   not an easy thing to do like it's not [TS]

00:49:42   like you're going to know how many how [TS]

00:49:44   many people do you know who are still [TS]

00:49:45   living in the indie life of my question [TS]

00:49:47   four cases does that and I'm not [TS]

00:49:49   honestly I'm not even sure I am anymore [TS]

00:49:51   that's fine you don't ok I I know what [TS]

00:49:53   you mean but I think ab store economics [TS]

00:49:55   are such that it is very very hard to do [TS]

00:49:58   that anymore and and i think the number [TS]

00:50:01   of people doing that is probably [TS]

00:50:05   shrinking for sure but I'm not like you [TS]

00:50:08   know overcast is not making as much as [TS]

00:50:10   instapaper did and and the trend lines [TS]

00:50:13   for these things are generally downward [TS]

00:50:15   and overcast is making you know that the [TS]

00:50:17   number [TS]

00:50:18   overcast numbers are going up very [TS]

00:50:19   slowly now with batrix but it's making [TS]

00:50:23   still making less than what did before [TS]

00:50:25   the pic model which that was less than [TS]

00:50:27   12 paper made so you know overall this [TS]

00:50:30   whole market is getting harder [TS]

00:50:32   yeah i think john your I understand what [TS]

00:50:35   you [TS]

00:50:35   ivy and there's there's a couple of [TS]

00:50:36   things to unpack here first of all I it [TS]

00:50:40   was easy for me to tell who didn't did [TS]

00:50:42   not read my entire blog post because [TS]

00:50:44   those who did read the blog post it was [TS]

00:50:46   abundantly obvious that i am still [TS]

00:50:49   working for the man it's just a [TS]

00:50:50   different man [TS]

00:50:51   figuratively speaking of course but [TS]

00:50:53   those who didn't read the blog post or [TS]

00:50:55   perhaps only right above the fold were [TS]

00:50:56   like oh UND congratulations [TS]

00:50:58   what's that was kind of funny but to [TS]

00:51:01   directly answer your question I [TS]

00:51:03   certainly have thought quite a bit about [TS]

00:51:07   going completely independent and to me [TS]

00:51:09   that means one of two things it either [TS]

00:51:12   means what you described John and what [TS]

00:51:14   Marco is trying to endure succeeding at [TS]

00:51:16   doing i'll let you be the judge of that [TS]

00:51:18   I'm or it means i am consulting but not [TS]

00:51:23   as part of a consulting firm but instead [TS]

00:51:26   as an independent consultant and this is [TS]

00:51:29   if you're in the united states often for [TS]

00:51:30   just any nining there's many other ways [TS]

00:51:32   you can refer to it but that means as a [TS]

00:51:34   single person i am going and helping [TS]

00:51:36   with something and I am my own boss [TS]

00:51:39   I am my own sales person i am my own [TS]

00:51:42   employee i am everything soup to nuts [TS]

00:51:45   and so what may happen if I wonder if i [TS]

00:51:50   were to make a guess I think one of a [TS]

00:51:51   couple things will happen either [TS]

00:51:53   I'll stay at my current job for quite a [TS]

00:51:55   long time or I will be here for a while [TS]

00:51:59   and so I really get to know iOS and then [TS]

00:52:02   maybe all try to split my time between a [TS]

00:52:07   handful of of clients and those clients [TS]

00:52:10   might be say Marco an underscore or [TS]

00:52:12   maybe somebody else entirely [TS]

00:52:15   or maybe all come up with that brilliant [TS]

00:52:18   idea to make that impossibly great [TS]

00:52:20   update too fast texter you know whatever [TS]

00:52:22   whatever comes after fast text but I [TS]

00:52:27   don't think today I'm in a position that [TS]

00:52:31   I would be comfortable being completely [TS]

00:52:33   independent as much as I think it would [TS]

00:52:34   be fun and as much as I'd love to try it [TS]

00:52:37   I don't think I'm comfortable doing it [TS]

00:52:38   today I'm the only breadwinner for the [TS]

00:52:40   family and granted I'm diversified a bit [TS]

00:52:42   insofar as i have podcast income as well [TS]

00:52:44   as regular income [TS]

00:52:46   I really want to continue to have health [TS]

00:52:50   insurance that my employer helps me pay [TS]

00:52:52   for and the thing that I really want to [TS]

00:52:55   do like I said earlier I kind of know [TS]

00:52:58   how to do but i don't really know how to [TS]

00:53:00   do and the best way to learn how to [TS]

00:53:02   really do it is to just freakin do it [TS]

00:53:04   and it's much easier as i discussed [TS]

00:53:06   earlier to be a part of a product [TS]

00:53:09   company who knows what they're getting [TS]

00:53:10   into when they hired you and knows what [TS]

00:53:12   you are not capable of [TS]

00:53:15   it's easier to to learn on that job then [TS]

00:53:19   it is to to try to position yourself as [TS]

00:53:24   a expert consultants but not really be [TS]

00:53:26   an expert in it so for now I'm really [TS]

00:53:29   happy with the move again i'm in the [TS]

00:53:30   honeymoon period you know there's [TS]

00:53:32   certainly bad parts to this company like [TS]

00:53:34   there are any company but so far all the [TS]

00:53:36   bad parts seem super manageable and all [TS]

00:53:39   the good parts seem awesome so I'm [TS]

00:53:43   really enthusiastic they are you talking [TS]

00:53:46   about considering you know the whole [TS]

00:53:48   1099 independent consulting only because [TS]

00:53:51   it is a thing that you know assume you [TS]

00:53:54   talked about c-sharp type consulting or [TS]

00:53:56   mine no no no i meant I meant what I [TS]

00:53:58   mean it could be sharp but I what I'm [TS]

00:54:00   saying like if you were to do it now you [TS]

00:54:01   like it would be very difficult for you [TS]

00:54:03   to be an iOS consultant person you don't [TS]

00:54:04   have a lot of relevant experience but [TS]

00:54:06   you could consult on the same exact [TS]

00:54:07   stuff that you were doing at the [TS]

00:54:08   previous company and to to me that's [TS]

00:54:10   like the worst of both worlds are you [TS]

00:54:12   doing you have to be consultant you have [TS]

00:54:14   to work at a tech that maybe you don't [TS]

00:54:16   like Arizona is interesting to you as as [TS]

00:54:18   iOS and you have to do everything [TS]

00:54:20   yourself and it's like like all the all [TS]

00:54:22   the downsides of being independent but [TS]

00:54:24   none of the upsides of getting to decide [TS]

00:54:27   what you want to make you know man yep i [TS]

00:54:29   completely agree with you and plus i [TS]

00:54:31   don't think i'm a very very good [TS]

00:54:32   salesperson soho I don't think I would [TS]

00:54:35   be good at like you know pounding the [TS]

00:54:37   pavement or whatever turns phrase you [TS]

00:54:39   want to use and trying to drum up work [TS]

00:54:40   for myself I mean I feel like you know I [TS]

00:54:43   could shill for myself on the podcast be [TS]

00:54:46   like hey guys if you want to see HR [TS]

00:54:48   person just let me know but I'd rather [TS]

00:54:50   not do that and it's just it's not that [TS]

00:54:53   those sorts of things that you just [TS]

00:54:55   described are not things that I'm [TS]

00:54:58   interested in and not things that I [TS]

00:54:59   think I'm good [TS]

00:55:00   that and just like you said I don't the [TS]

00:55:04   things that I'm good at like C sharp and [TS]

00:55:06   that sort of thing I don't necessarily [TS]

00:55:08   want to keep doing so you're exactly [TS]

00:55:10   right to go completely independent today [TS]

00:55:13   I would probably be backed into the [TS]

00:55:15   corner of doing all the things i don't [TS]

00:55:16   really want to do and so I'd much rather [TS]

00:55:20   have the steady and reliable paycheck [TS]

00:55:23   and the help on health insurance that [TS]

00:55:25   comes from working for a quote unquote [TS]

00:55:27   the man and and then we'll reevaluate in [TS]

00:55:30   a couple years and see where things [TS]

00:55:32   stand then but like you I think I can [TS]

00:55:34   speak for you John i am extremely [TS]

00:55:35   risk-adverse is that one other servers i [TS]

00:55:38   always get the i was getting wrong sorry [TS]

00:55:40   I'm extremely risk averse and I'd rather [TS]

00:55:44   have some of that risk consumed my by my [TS]

00:55:48   employer then have to shoulder myself [TS]

00:55:51   now yes this is where all of the [TS]

00:55:52   internet and perhaps marcos saying well [TS]

00:55:54   your employer could fire you at any [TS]

00:55:56   second they could fold tomorrow you [TS]

00:55:58   never really really know and yes that's [TS]

00:56:00   true but the way I perceive it [TS]

00:56:03   you know better were certain different [TS]

00:56:05   is that this is less risky than going [TS]

00:56:08   completely independent today you're at [TS]

00:56:10   least outsourcing many of the jobs you [TS]

00:56:12   know you're outsourcing many of the [TS]

00:56:13   risks and and much of the work by [TS]

00:56:15   working for somebody else and I wouldn't [TS]

00:56:18   say you know that you're totally right [TS]

00:56:19   and pretty what I would say that you [TS]

00:56:21   know any job you could lose at any [TS]

00:56:22   moment it you just kind of lose control [TS]

00:56:24   when you're working for somebody else [TS]

00:56:25   but the fact is if you go to work for an [TS]

00:56:28   already established company that it [TS]

00:56:30   already has multiple employees and like [TS]

00:56:33   your salary is not where understand [TS]

00:56:35   their budget is going you know then like [TS]

00:56:38   you know certainly it it makes it less [TS]

00:56:40   likely that they would fail on the [TS]

00:56:42   market in a way to it that would affect [TS]

00:56:44   you or things like that like compared to [TS]

00:56:46   just you going on your own and trying to [TS]

00:56:48   make one app and and see it trying to [TS]

00:56:50   see that one succeed you know because [TS]

00:56:52   the company that you're going to work [TS]

00:56:53   for has already released that one app [TS]

00:56:55   and they it's already doing well enough [TS]

00:56:57   to hire people and keep paying the bills [TS]

00:56:59   oh hopefully you know so so you know [TS]

00:57:02   certainly you do reduce and outsource [TS]

00:57:04   some of those risks i working for [TS]

00:57:05   somebody else when additionally and [TS]

00:57:07   additionally you know I didn't leave my [TS]

00:57:08   old job with my middle fingers in the [TS]

00:57:10   air you know I left my old job in such a [TS]

00:57:13   way that [TS]

00:57:14   if things fell through with this 1i [TS]

00:57:16   pretty sure i could go back without [TS]

00:57:19   having to put my tail too far between my [TS]

00:57:21   legs and I pretty sure every job of left [TS]

00:57:24   I could say the same for and plus is as [TS]

00:57:27   time goes on you know some of the people [TS]

00:57:30   I worked with two or three jobs ago are [TS]

00:57:33   now at other jobs where I've never [TS]

00:57:35   worked and so I could go work with old [TS]

00:57:37   friends again at the new places they're [TS]

00:57:39   not working out which actually if you [TS]

00:57:40   think about it is exactly what happened [TS]

00:57:42   here [TS]

00:57:42   yeah Jamie where Jamie and I work [TS]

00:57:44   together a couple of jobs ago [TS]

00:57:46   yay we still kept in touch for a long [TS]

00:57:48   time and and it ended up that this all [TS]

00:57:51   came circling back around I kinda hate [TS]

00:57:53   myself became we circle back to each [TS]

00:57:56   other and now we're working together [TS]

00:57:58   yep emulator all over the parking lot [TS]

00:58:00   yeah exactly so you know it for those [TS]

00:58:03   who are not independent which i think is [TS]

00:58:05   the overwhelming majority of us if you [TS]

00:58:07   leave a job not like a jerk [TS]

00:58:10   you also have that option so even if [TS]

00:58:12   this all fizzled tomorrow I would still [TS]

00:58:14   have the option of going back to the old [TS]

00:58:16   job or working with some of my old [TS]

00:58:18   coworkers from years ago and there's [TS]

00:58:20   always new bridges to burn [TS]

00:58:22   hey I'm still disappointed that you [TS]

00:58:25   didn't take take us up on the offer to [TS]

00:58:27   have me John an underscore go into your [TS]

00:58:29   old job and quit for you [TS]

00:58:30   that would've been hysterical but now i [TS]

00:58:32   don't think that would have been a wise [TS]

00:58:34   choice [TS]

00:58:34   probably not but it would've been really [TS]

00:58:35   fun for us at least I think you made the [TS]

00:58:38   right choice for yourself the hook [TS]

00:58:40   yes but it would have been enjoyable in [TS]

00:58:41   man that would've been a really great a [TS]

00:58:44   youtube video for there's nothing else [TS]

00:58:46   we are happy to burn anyone's bridges [TS]

00:58:48   that they need burned for that we're [TS]

00:58:50   happy to do that [TS]

00:58:51   yeah that's something I mean oh I could [TS]

00:58:53   I certainly had a list of grievances [TS]

00:58:55   that I could have shared with my [TS]

00:58:58   employer on the way out the door and I [TS]

00:59:00   do I think they knew some of the things [TS]

00:59:03   that that made me unhappy like the fact [TS]

00:59:05   that I wasn't doing iOS and so what I [TS]

00:59:06   told him I was leaving they were a [TS]

00:59:08   little surprised and a little bummed but [TS]

00:59:11   one that I said I was leaving to iOS [TS]

00:59:13   work they're like oh okay that makes [TS]

00:59:15   sense so so I I i feel like you know [TS]

00:59:21   there's no good come in my perspective [TS]

00:59:23   anyway no good comes of you know [TS]

00:59:25   hey [TS]

00:59:26   I quit and by the way let me tell you [TS]

00:59:28   all the reasons why you guys are a bunch [TS]

00:59:29   of jerks [TS]

00:59:30   yeah there's no good comes to that [TS]

00:59:31   because in so everyone is a jerk in [TS]

00:59:34   their own way and I'm a jerk in my own [TS]

00:59:36   way and so you know we can all be charts [TS]

00:59:39   together and that's okay well plus like [TS]

00:59:41   suppose you do go back to your old [TS]

00:59:42   company say in two years you are now a [TS]

00:59:45   two-year experienced iOS developer that [TS]

00:59:47   they didn't have to pay you for training [TS]

00:59:49   in the meantime and now they can charge [TS]

00:59:51   you more for your time [TS]

00:59:52   yeah that's actually extremely true yeah [TS]

00:59:53   so I'm we'll see how it goes i'm really [TS]

00:59:56   excited I'm really scared and I'm really [TS]

00:59:58   excited and [TS]

00:59:58   excited and [TS]

01:00:00   I'm really anxious to see what it's like [TS]

01:00:02   it's gonna be interesting being [TS]

01:00:03   client-side and it's going to be [TS]

01:00:05   interesting here is because most of the [TS]

01:00:06   c-sharp stuff i was writing it was all [TS]

01:00:08   server side i have written some [TS]

01:00:10   client-side c-sharp way way back when i [TS]

01:00:13   first started writing and in c-sharp but [TS]

01:00:15   I'm done that in a long time [TS]

01:00:17   the closest thing I've come to [TS]

01:00:18   client-side programming in JavaScript [TS]

01:00:20   and I'm not going to get into that holy [TS]

01:00:21   war but suffice to say i haven't done [TS]

01:00:24   real honest-to-goodness client-side [TS]

01:00:26   development in a long time and [TS]

01:00:27   additionally i'm really looking forward [TS]

01:00:29   to some of the engineering challenges of [TS]

01:00:32   working on a mobile device that I [TS]

01:00:33   haven't had to worry about a long time [TS]

01:00:34   you know like the the processors are [TS]

01:00:37   getting faster and faster and stronger [TS]

01:00:38   and stronger but you know can cycles are [TS]

01:00:40   not free and more importantly network [TS]

01:00:42   traffic is not free and you know even [TS]

01:00:44   over even after having been there only a [TS]

01:00:47   couple days there's a couple of choices [TS]

01:00:48   that have been made in the app for [TS]

01:00:50   understandable reasons that I'm that I'm [TS]

01:00:53   thinking to myself oh em that probably [TS]

01:00:56   shouldn't be the way we do things and [TS]

01:00:57   then I'm not the first one to this [TS]

01:00:59   conclusion there you know it's a known [TS]

01:01:01   issue but it's some of those engineering [TS]

01:01:03   challenges that you don't have to think [TS]

01:01:04   about that often anymore even though you [TS]

01:01:06   probably should but you don't have to [TS]

01:01:07   that I'm really anxious to start [TS]

01:01:09   worrying about again even though it's [TS]

01:01:11   gonna be a complete pain in the took us [TS]

01:01:12   so we'll see [TS]

01:01:13   just let me know when you get far enough [TS]

01:01:15   into your Swift stuff that we can talk [TS]

01:01:17   about a member wise initializer [TS]

01:01:19   proposals on the podcasting and board [TS]

01:01:21   marker with it [TS]

01:01:22   alright sounds great it's not the thing [TS]

01:01:24   that Erica Satan's evans at forgive me I [TS]

01:01:27   don't pronounce your last name but she [TS]

01:01:28   just been a blog post about that like a [TS]

01:01:29   week ago maybe a few days ago maybe [TS]

01:01:31   she's on the list shape the blog post [TS]

01:01:33   about its with evolution learn about the [TS]

01:01:35   future of the language just learning [TS]

01:01:36   exactly can tell what you're learning [TS]

01:01:38   now will be obsolete in t-minus three [TS]

01:01:41   months its proposal closer [TS]

01:01:43   this is great though as long as long as [TS]

01:01:44   case he keeps learning Swift I don't [TS]

01:01:46   have to really we can just use you right [TS]

01:01:48   i don't think that's how that works [TS]

01:01:50   yeah pretty sure that's not how it works [TS]

01:01:52   somebody i think it was Curtis had said [TS]

01:01:55   it sat outside the you guys gotta switch [TS]

01:01:57   programmer on the show but anyway so [TS]

01:02:01   yeah well we'll see how it goes but I'm [TS]

01:02:04   really anxious see a lot of the existing [TS]

01:02:05   code is of course in objective-c but I'm [TS]

01:02:08   but all the new stuff is Swift and I'll [TS]

01:02:10   i was looking at the Swift book over the [TS]

01:02:13   funemployment week and I was trying to [TS]

01:02:16   teach myself some of it and a lot of [TS]

01:02:19   Swift really does intend it to be [TS]

01:02:22   completely fair this is all academic [TS]

01:02:24   because i was working in a playground [TS]

01:02:25   just reading the book but a lot of it [TS]

01:02:28   looks really really good and it may be [TS]

01:02:31   that once I start really developing with [TS]

01:02:33   it i will hate everything but so far I'm [TS]

01:02:36   really enjoying it it's looking really [TS]

01:02:38   good to me so I still am I still in [TS]

01:02:40   second place for amount of Swift written [TS]

01:02:42   if you count the lines of code in my [TS]

01:02:44   host Henry years [TS]

01:02:45   yes alright let me know market when you [TS]

01:02:48   do more than 10 lines or whatever my [TS]

01:02:50   counter my life count is further than [TS]

01:02:51   the section where I put code samples of [TS]

01:02:53   swift and well i will start learning [TS]

01:02:55   Swift when desktop linux takes over it's [TS]

01:02:57   always like a year and a half out [TS]

01:02:59   mhm anyway so I appreciate you let me go [TS]

01:03:03   on about that for a while but yeah and [TS]

01:03:06   also I i would be remiss of me not to [TS]

01:03:08   mention or that I've gotten so many [TS]

01:03:11   people tweeting at me in response to the [TS]

01:03:13   blog post and the announcement and [TS]

01:03:15   marcos blog post as well or link post [TS]

01:03:17   and I really appreciate all of it [TS]

01:03:20   I didn't think that many people gave a [TS]

01:03:22   crap about where i spent my time during [TS]

01:03:23   the day and i don't mean that a nasty [TS]

01:03:25   way it's very flattering that on that [TS]

01:03:28   people have said that have been so so [TS]

01:03:31   enthusiastic and so I really really [TS]

01:03:33   appreciate it [TS]

01:03:34   we just couldn't wait to pull you out of [TS]

01:03:35   the parking lot that was really like all [TS]

01:03:37   like you know each you know we did we [TS]

01:03:39   never talked that much about your work [TS]

01:03:41   just because you know it wasn't you know [TS]

01:03:44   what you want to talk about on the show [TS]

01:03:45   and you know we don't see each other [TS]

01:03:46   privately that often but it certainly [TS]

01:03:48   did seem to me that some of the some of [TS]

01:03:52   the overhead of of being in like a big [TS]

01:03:54   corporate not being a big order but you [TS]

01:03:57   know being like a like a big company and [TS]

01:03:59   doing the consultant working having a [TS]

01:04:00   tracker time everything I can't even [TS]

01:04:02   imagine you know that the kind of stress [TS]

01:04:05   that you have to internalize to have [TS]

01:04:07   things like your traffic light incident [TS]

01:04:09   of like thinking about how am I going to [TS]

01:04:11   build a client for the time I [TS]

01:04:13   accidentally spent a little bit too much [TS]

01:04:15   at the traffic light like it seems like [TS]

01:04:17   that is something that [TS]

01:04:19   you know it's certainly working for any [TS]

01:04:21   company has it stresses and working for [TS]

01:04:23   no company has it stresses even though [TS]

01:04:24   nobody else sees them except me [TS]

01:04:27   but you were it but I feel like you're [TS]

01:04:30   making a move here that at least by the [TS]

01:04:33   way it sounds and and by what you are [TS]

01:04:35   describing so far it sounds like you're [TS]

01:04:37   moving towards less stress and towards [TS]

01:04:40   something that is what that is [TS]

01:04:41   significantly more aligned with what you [TS]

01:04:44   want to be doing and and with where you [TS]

01:04:45   want to take your skills and you with [TS]

01:04:47   things like iOS and to move towards [TS]

01:04:49   client-side stuff moving towards Swift [TS]

01:04:51   so it sounds like for what you want [TS]

01:04:54   today this is a way better fit for you [TS]

01:04:56   and so I'm really happy for you [TS]

01:04:59   i I am so happy to hear this and I think [TS]

01:05:01   anyone who's been following your work [TS]

01:05:03   for you know the last couple years or [TS]

01:05:06   whatever anyone who's been following [TS]

01:05:07   your work recently has probably noticed [TS]

01:05:09   the same things that like what you were [TS]

01:05:11   doing was not very well I'm with what [TS]

01:05:13   you want to be doing anymore and now [TS]

01:05:15   this new job sounds like it is [TS]

01:05:17   yeah I couldn't agree more and I [TS]

01:05:19   appreciate it i'm really looking forward [TS]

01:05:22   to it and the funny thing about all this [TS]

01:05:24   is is that I've been able in lucky [TS]

01:05:27   enough to get a WV DC in twenty eleven [TS]

01:05:29   twelve thirteen fourteen fifteen and [TS]

01:05:32   every single time i've been i've felt [TS]

01:05:35   almost like guilty that I've taken a [TS]

01:05:37   ticket from like a quote-unquote rely OS [TS]

01:05:39   developer because you know there was [TS]

01:05:41   certainly a potential every single year [TS]

01:05:43   that I could be doing an iOS project in [TS]

01:05:45   the following year but nevertheless I [TS]

01:05:48   hadn't done very many of them and let's [TS]

01:05:50   be honest like we've talked about it [TS]

01:05:52   more than a couple times on the show [TS]

01:05:53   last text was never that popular [TS]

01:05:56   well here it is now that I'm an [TS]

01:05:57   honest-to-goodness iOS developer [TS]

01:05:59   guaranteed i want to take this year so [TS]

01:06:02   I've ruined everything but that's okay [TS]

01:06:05   I'll just tell us about something that's [TS]

01:06:06   awesome [TS]

01:06:07   speaking of making corporate things [TS]

01:06:09   better we are sponsored this week by a [TS]

01:06:11   glue glue is the corporate intranet that [TS]

01:06:14   you will actually like now if you ever [TS]

01:06:16   worked in a corporate environment with [TS]

01:06:17   parking lots you know how painful [TS]

01:06:19   internets usually are the content is so [TS]

01:06:22   often stale the interface is really ugly [TS]

01:06:24   you can access on your phone or get any [TS]

01:06:26   meaningful work done outside the office [TS]

01:06:28   igloo is a modern internet designed by [TS]

01:06:32   human beings [TS]

01:06:32   for other human beings that you will [TS]

01:06:34   actually like it's an easy-to-use [TS]

01:06:36   collaboration tool that can help you do [TS]

01:06:38   your best work you can share files and [TS]

01:06:40   updates with your team coordinate [TS]

01:06:42   calendars managed apartment projects and [TS]

01:06:44   more when whether you're a large [TS]

01:06:46   enterprise stuck using sharepoint I'm so [TS]

01:06:48   glad I've never seen sharepoint I don't [TS]

01:06:50   even know what it is i just know it's [TS]

01:06:51   microsoft and everyone hates a trigger [TS]

01:06:53   warning trigger warning track warning oh [TS]

01:06:54   my god please [TS]

01:06:56   does the new job sharepoint know thank [TS]

01:06:58   God or if they do I haven't seen it and [TS]

01:07:00   that and I want to keep it that way [TS]

01:07:02   good because nobody likes sharepoint if [TS]

01:07:04   you're stuck with that or if you're fast [TS]

01:07:06   growing business overrun by file-sharing [TS]

01:07:07   Calendar apps you can create a corporate [TS]

01:07:09   internet that matches your brand's [TS]

01:07:11   look-and-feel simplifies how you work [TS]

01:07:13   and is accessible on any device mobile [TS]

01:07:16   laptop desktop anything all today at a [TS]

01:07:19   blue software com so go to a blue [TS]

01:07:21   software com / ATP what is not to like [TS]

01:07:24   here check it out today a loose [TS]

01:07:26   offer.com / ATP the internet that you [TS]

01:07:29   will actually like start a free trial [TS]

01:07:31   today to check it out and if you're [TS]

01:07:33   under 10 people you can even use it for [TS]

01:07:35   free forever so that's pretty cool check [TS]

01:07:38   out a blue software today a blue [TS]

01:07:39   software com / ATP thanks a lot [TS]

01:07:42   alright so just to keep this the all [TS]

01:07:46   cases all the time show I wanted to tell [TS]

01:07:48   you about my last day at my last job and [TS]

01:07:51   the sounds like it's gonna be boring but [TS]

01:07:52   bear with me here I decided because I [TS]

01:07:56   wanted to be a model employee and I [TS]

01:07:58   don't need to hear emails about why this [TS]

01:08:00   maybe it was a bad idea i'm sticking [TS]

01:08:02   with it being a good idea i decided to [TS]

01:08:04   be a model employee and try to remove [TS]

01:08:06   all of my stuff off my work computer for [TS]

01:08:09   the last job all my stuff off of it just [TS]

01:08:12   reload OS 10 leave it in a position [TS]

01:08:14   where you know it's it starts up and you [TS]

01:08:18   know you're the first thing it's going [TS]

01:08:19   to do is finish the installation so i [TS]

01:08:21   did that over the weekend right before [TS]

01:08:24   this past Monday so when I went in [TS]

01:08:26   Monday I effectively had no computer [TS]

01:08:29   I mean I physically had one but it was [TS]

01:08:30   ready to get setup i knew i had taken [TS]

01:08:33   mr. clean magic eraser and clean the [TS]

01:08:35   exterior of it [TS]

01:08:36   everything was good i put it back in the [TS]

01:08:38   box because for whatever reason when [TS]

01:08:39   they gave me the computer they gave me [TS]

01:08:40   the box [TS]

01:08:41   everything was great i really wanted to [TS]

01:08:44   however [TS]

01:08:46   and a few tax related documents at our [TS]

01:08:48   scanner in the office and the way the [TS]

01:08:52   scanner works is it was a scanner / [TS]

01:08:54   printer / copying machine you can save [TS]

01:08:56   something to USB key you can save [TS]

01:08:58   something to endure you can send [TS]

01:09:01   something to email [TS]

01:09:02   well I didn't know how long my email [TS]

01:09:05   address is gonna last because you know [TS]

01:09:07   it's it maybe I could have keyed in my [TS]

01:09:09   personal email address but it was [TS]

01:09:11   certainly intended to be used only for [TS]

01:09:13   your work email addresses and I'm [TS]

01:09:15   literally there for like 2-3 hours to do [TS]

01:09:17   an exit interview or two and then get on [TS]

01:09:20   my way so I didn't even know if i would [TS]

01:09:22   have an email address played on this [TS]

01:09:24   past Monday it turns out I did but I [TS]

01:09:26   brought my ipad mini with me and what I [TS]

01:09:28   wanted to do was I wanted to scan these [TS]

01:09:29   documents and confirm that they scanned [TS]

01:09:31   properly and save them to dropbox if at [TS]

01:09:35   all possible [TS]

01:09:36   so how do you do that well I brought a [TS]

01:09:40   USB key but the problem with that is i [TS]

01:09:42   have no way to confirm whether or not it [TS]

01:09:44   works we don't have any like public [TS]

01:09:45   terminals sitting around in the office [TS]

01:09:47   i'm sure i could have asked somebody [TS]

01:09:48   awkwardly hey do you mind if I use your [TS]

01:09:51   computer to see if my scam w2 looks [TS]

01:09:53   right light PS don't look over my [TS]

01:09:55   shoulder please because it shows you [TS]

01:09:56   exactly how much I made last year and [TS]

01:09:57   that's a little awkward so I needed to [TS]

01:10:01   do everything via my iPad and what I [TS]

01:10:05   ended up doing was I had sent the scans [TS]

01:10:09   to my work email which was still working [TS]

01:10:11   sat down on my iPad looked these scans [TS]

01:10:15   and then put them in dropbox that sounds [TS]

01:10:19   like it was a pretty easy thing to do [TS]

01:10:22   but man did it take for ever compared to [TS]

01:10:25   using a mac i had to go to mail i had to [TS]

01:10:29   wait for the message to download get [TS]

01:10:32   angry when occasionally male showed me [TS]

01:10:34   that there was a new message but refused [TS]

01:10:35   to download it for squid male go back [TS]

01:10:38   into male finally the messages there now [TS]

01:10:41   i need to open the PDF then I need to [TS]

01:10:43   open a Dolittle share sheet thing go to [TS]

01:10:46   open in and then go to dropbox and then [TS]

01:10:49   now I'm opening it in dropbox now i need [TS]

01:10:51   to tap tap tap tap tap to figure out [TS]

01:10:52   what folder to go in and I need to [TS]

01:10:54   rename the file by the way and then i [TS]

01:10:57   can finally save it [TS]

01:10:59   sometimes there was a share button [TS]

01:11:01   sometimes there wasn't i needed to tap [TS]

01:11:03   and hold on a freaking nightmare [TS]

01:11:06   it took forever to do something that on [TS]

01:11:09   a Mac would have taken like four and a [TS]

01:11:11   half seconds so it was both a wonderful [TS]

01:11:16   experience in that i was able to [TS]

01:11:18   accomplish this at all on the ipad which [TS]

01:11:20   i think even a little even not long ago [TS]

01:11:22   I wouldn't have been able to or would [TS]

01:11:25   have been even more taps 22 to make this [TS]

01:11:27   work but all i wanted in the world has [TS]

01:11:30   to have a mac in front of me so I could [TS]

01:11:32   make this go so much faster [TS]

01:11:34   additionally i need to fill out another [TS]

01:11:37   tax form which included a signature on [TS]

01:11:42   OS 10 you can sign using your finger on [TS]

01:11:46   the trackpad in preview or you can sign [TS]

01:11:49   a piece of paper hold it up to the [TS]

01:11:50   camera that's on your mac and it will [TS]

01:11:53   score quotes can really take a picture [TS]

01:11:56   of your signature and and filter out all [TS]

01:12:00   the background noise if you will and and [TS]

01:12:02   let you put your signature on pdfs [TS]

01:12:03   easy-peasy simple to do with the stuff [TS]

01:12:07   that comes on iOS I couldn't do that i [TS]

01:12:10   am sure they're like 300 different apps [TS]

01:12:12   like for example PDF man that would have [TS]

01:12:14   let me do that but I didn't have [TS]

01:12:17   anything out of the box to do it and [TS]

01:12:19   that's frustrating and I don't want to [TS]

01:12:20   have to search the App Store which as we [TS]

01:12:22   discussed earlier is a dumpster fire [TS]

01:12:25   full of options to figure out the one [TS]

01:12:27   that I wanted [TS]

01:12:28   additionally similarly some of the PDFs [TS]

01:12:31   that I scanned I really wanted to rotate [TS]

01:12:34   on preview that's command are easy peasy [TS]

01:12:38   how do you do that on an iPad without a [TS]

01:12:40   third-party app what I'm coming around [TS]

01:12:43   to and bringing all this up is I really [TS]

01:12:46   enjoyed the fact that i could sit on one [TS]

01:12:49   of the couches at work where we had the [TS]

01:12:50   old job where we had some couches and [TS]

01:12:52   actually there's some of the new job as [TS]

01:12:53   well i really enjoyed being able to sit [TS]

01:12:55   on the couches at work and use use a [TS]

01:12:57   computing device that wasn't a laptop [TS]

01:12:59   but all i wanted in the world was to [TS]

01:13:02   have a damn laptop and I understand why [TS]

01:13:06   Mike and Federico and cgpgrey and [TS]

01:13:09   Jason's now and others [TS]

01:13:11   might enjoy that because it was kind of [TS]

01:13:16   cool being able to put puzzle pieces [TS]

01:13:17   together to get most of this stuff done [TS]

01:13:20   but maybe i'm just old [TS]

01:13:24   I don't know why but it just felt awful [TS]

01:13:27   to have to jump through so many damn [TS]

01:13:29   hoops to get what are comparatively [TS]

01:13:32   super simple operations done on the ipad [TS]

01:13:36   and I don't know if you guys have any [TS]

01:13:37   thoughts about this if you if it in many [TS]

01:13:39   yeah well and I don't know if this is if [TS]

01:13:43   we're beating this horse to death but i [TS]

01:13:46   don't get--why this would be fun for [TS]

01:13:47   people i just don't see why it would be [TS]

01:13:49   fun i think i understand why it felt bad [TS]

01:13:52   like one reason I mean you kind of [TS]

01:13:54   touched on ry might feel bad to have [TS]

01:13:56   this experience and why was it so [TS]

01:13:57   difficult part of it has to be just [TS]

01:14:01   simply a gap in knowledge that for [TS]

01:14:04   example vtg could tell you exactly how [TS]

01:14:06   you should be doing the thing that [TS]

01:14:07   you're doing because he has experience [TS]

01:14:09   you know how to do it on the mac because [TS]

01:14:11   you've done it before on the Mac you [TS]

01:14:13   know which programs how to get things [TS]

01:14:15   between them and the comparison i was [TS]

01:14:17   thinking like so many things that seem [TS]

01:14:18   effortless to me in my mac are not [TS]

01:14:20   effortless to other people with less [TS]

01:14:22   experience with Max that we don't even [TS]

01:14:24   think about these tools we have at our [TS]

01:14:25   disposal and you always know you know [TS]

01:14:28   drag from this application of that one [TS]

01:14:29   but that one you can't drag directly [TS]

01:14:31   into their you can drag it onto the app [TS]

01:14:32   icon for this application but this other [TS]

01:14:34   one you got to go to desktop [TS]

01:14:35   intermediary and who knows you could [TS]

01:14:36   drag anything out of there and how do [TS]

01:14:37   you know sometimes you gotta hold down [TS]

01:14:38   before the Dragons active and you can't [TS]

01:14:40   just start dragging soon as you click [TS]

01:14:41   the mouse button like the things we [TS]

01:14:42   internalize details that are just [TS]

01:14:44   byzantine and don't really make any [TS]

01:14:45   sense in aren't consistent and we don't [TS]

01:14:47   have to go to the app store and look at [TS]

01:14:49   the application because you already have [TS]

01:14:50   them installed and we already know you [TS]

01:14:52   know all that like that we know what to [TS]

01:14:53   do in the mac and so you go to some [TS]

01:14:55   place where you don't know what to do [TS]

01:14:56   when you feel less confident it feels [TS]

01:14:58   like i know i could do this in two [TS]

01:14:59   seconds in rel max where I am an expert [TS]

01:15:02   and now i'm in around why and it's [TS]

01:15:04   frustrating to you know to get into to [TS]

01:15:06   feel like a novice and that I think [TS]

01:15:10   explains a large part of the [TS]

01:15:12   dissatisfaction and the fact that you [TS]

01:15:13   could do it at all probably means that [TS]

01:15:15   there is like 900 better ways to do it [TS]

01:15:18   you just don't know yet because you [TS]

01:15:19   don't have the apps installed but on the [TS]

01:15:22   other side of this is what we talked [TS]

01:15:23   about a lot [TS]

01:15:23   is that in the end some things still [TS]

01:15:25   just are easier to do on the Mac no [TS]

01:15:27   matter what a range of things because [TS]

01:15:29   sometimes some of the things that video [TS]

01:15:30   you might explain about his crazy world [TS]

01:15:32   of living and you know on the ipad only [TS]

01:15:34   you think about it you're like all right [TS]

01:15:37   well that's impressive that you could do [TS]

01:15:38   it all really it's a Rube Goldberg [TS]

01:15:40   machine and that's really [TS]

01:15:42   this can't be the the true path forward [TS]

01:15:44   like really this is just like you're [TS]

01:15:46   doing this to suffice for now but i have [TS]

01:15:50   to believe it [TS]

01:15:50   maybe some of the things that you're [TS]

01:15:51   doing actually would be just as easy if [TS]

01:15:53   not easier on the ipad if you just know [TS]

01:15:54   how to do them [TS]

01:15:55   yeah you do very well could be right i [TS]

01:15:57   guess the thing that frustrated me was [TS]

01:15:59   that out-of-the-box on OS 10 all the [TS]

01:16:04   puzzle pieces i need are there and are [TS]

01:16:06   arranged pretty closely together so you [TS]

01:16:10   just kind of have to shove them a little [TS]

01:16:12   bit nearer to each other and they all [TS]

01:16:13   fit and I think you made a great point [TS]

01:16:15   that a lot of that comes from experience [TS]

01:16:17   whereas out-of-the-box on iOS those [TS]

01:16:21   puzzle pieces may exist and help [TS]

01:16:23   they may even fit together more nicely [TS]

01:16:25   then they do an OS 10 although i'm [TS]

01:16:28   skeptical but the problem is you have to [TS]

01:16:30   seek them out and i personally don't [TS]

01:16:33   have that patients that Mike and [TS]

01:16:35   Federico and so many others do now Marco [TS]

01:16:37   what were you going to say about all [TS]

01:16:38   this [TS]

01:16:39   I was actually gonna say something very [TS]

01:16:40   similar to what John said which is like [TS]

01:16:41   in the ipads defense you were not [TS]

01:16:44   familiar with it you know you are an [TS]

01:16:45   expert on the Mac you are not an expert [TS]

01:16:47   in doing this kind of thing on the ipad [TS]

01:16:49   and so yes there are ways to do these [TS]

01:16:51   kinds of things that you just didn't [TS]

01:16:53   know it be similar like if you if you [TS]

01:16:55   try to use linux and when it might have [TS]

01:16:56   tons of tools to do these things and you [TS]

01:16:58   don't know about them you know things [TS]

01:16:59   like that so something to think about [TS]

01:17:01   with with iOS stuff and and with people [TS]

01:17:04   who are going to do like most of the [TS]

01:17:06   work on iOS or all their work on iOS I [TS]

01:17:08   think there's a bit of a parallel to [TS]

01:17:10   draw here between this kind of dilemma [TS]

01:17:14   and the reason why people but why some [TS]

01:17:18   people still buy laptops with DVD drives [TS]

01:17:21   in them and all of us geeks can look at [TS]

01:17:24   this and say why would anybody want a [TS]

01:17:26   lap of the DVD drive that what year is [TS]

01:17:28   this it is very common people still buy [TS]

01:17:30   the DVD drive because they say well what [TS]

01:17:32   if I need it I need this every so often [TS]

01:17:35   it's very similar to what happened [TS]

01:17:37   how people justify buying SUVs a lot of [TS]

01:17:40   times for pickups [TS]

01:17:41   yeah a lot of times people who buy SUVs [TS]

01:17:44   are doing they choose them over a [TS]

01:17:46   different kind of vehicle that they [TS]

01:17:47   might be happier and more comfortable [TS]

01:17:49   driving more of the time or that might [TS]

01:17:52   work better for them in other ways might [TS]

01:17:53   be easier to park or more efficient or [TS]

01:17:55   whatever they choose SUVs over those [TS]

01:17:57   vehicles sometimes because they think [TS]

01:17:59   they might occasionally need to use some [TS]

01:18:02   of you know the features on the SUV and [TS]

01:18:05   even though [TS]

01:18:06   ninety-nine percent of the time they [TS]

01:18:08   never use them and during the entire [TS]

01:18:10   time they only at that SUV the need for [TS]

01:18:14   it for its benefits over a regular [TS]

01:18:17   vehicle might only come up like three or [TS]

01:18:18   four times you know and and if they [TS]

01:18:21   didn't have the SUV was three or four [TS]

01:18:22   times they probably could have found [TS]

01:18:23   some way around you know we could rent a [TS]

01:18:25   truck for this afternoon or whatever you [TS]

01:18:27   know but people still choose those [TS]

01:18:29   because of these occasional needs and [TS]

01:18:31   that's their it's a very powerful force [TS]

01:18:34   in decision-making when people are [TS]

01:18:35   choosing these kinds of these kinds of [TS]

01:18:37   things there that they're buying are [TS]

01:18:38   using are owning because they may think [TS]

01:18:40   you know as much as I could get away [TS]

01:18:42   with what I need ninety percent of the [TS]

01:18:44   time with this simpler smaller option [TS]

01:18:47   whether that's the iOS or a motorcycle [TS]

01:18:50   you know they they can see as much [TS]

01:18:52   talking about that most of the time that [TS]

01:18:55   lasts like one or five or ten percent of [TS]

01:18:58   the time that what I'm doing can't be [TS]

01:19:01   done on this thing at all can't easily [TS]

01:19:02   be done this thing i'm going to be [TS]

01:19:05   really upset if I don't just get the the [TS]

01:19:07   bigger more capable thing to begin with [TS]

01:19:09   and sometimes that actually isn't a [TS]

01:19:12   rational decision sometimes like you [TS]

01:19:13   know that as what they could have been [TS]

01:19:14   fine with the smaller thing and the [TS]

01:19:16   bigger thing they're actually less happy [TS]

01:19:19   with it overall but it's very hard to [TS]

01:19:21   persuade people that up front and a lot [TS]

01:19:22   of times like the the times where the [TS]

01:19:25   smaller tool isn't sufficient they stick [TS]

01:19:27   out in the person's mind and and that [TS]

01:19:29   that affects the decision-making forever [TS]

01:19:31   like there have been so many times in in [TS]

01:19:34   my past travels with during which i have [TS]

01:19:37   owned a macbook air or 13-inch macbook [TS]

01:19:41   of some kind and I have regretted not [TS]

01:19:44   having the 15-inch now I have a 15-inch [TS]

01:19:47   and i'm looking at like you know I [TS]

01:19:49   hardly ever need [TS]

01:19:50   this to be this big ok I really hardly [TS]

01:19:53   ever like but it does occasionally [TS]

01:19:56   happen and so I i'm tempted to go [TS]

01:19:58   smaller for my next one but it's that [TS]

01:20:01   it's in the back of my mind like he had [TS]

01:20:03   but I do really like it sometimes [TS]

01:20:06   so I think looking at the ipad we have a [TS]

01:20:08   kind of similar problem here where if [TS]

01:20:11   you're super devoted to doing as much as [TS]

01:20:13   you can on it you can get quite a lot [TS]

01:20:15   done but went but people look at that [TS]

01:20:17   concept and they think yeah but what if [TS]

01:20:20   you know it but what if i want to do [TS]

01:20:22   this one fairly you know trivial thing [TS]

01:20:24   that just by the design of the ipad or [TS]

01:20:26   by its you know hardware restrictions [TS]

01:20:28   something just it just can't do or [TS]

01:20:30   bioessays restrictions very clumsy to do [TS]

01:20:32   you know if there and you only need one [TS]

01:20:35   of those things for the idea of an of an [TS]

01:20:38   ipad being your primary work machine to [TS]

01:20:40   be dismissed in your mind or two seem [TS]

01:20:42   impossible and so many people will have [TS]

01:20:45   like one of those things at least and [TS]

01:20:47   you i have tons of those things that's [TS]

01:20:49   one of the reasons I don't do it but you [TS]

01:20:50   know I think in this case like it's a [TS]

01:20:53   very hard problem to solve because [TS]

01:20:54   that's the kind of it just takes like [TS]

01:20:56   years and years of software maturity and [TS]

01:21:01   a blossoming third-party ecosystem and [TS]

01:21:04   advancement in the OS and the interface [TS]

01:21:05   and everything and the end right now if [TS]

01:21:09   you are accustomed to the mac it's [TS]

01:21:11   really easy to just get a bunch of stuff [TS]

01:21:12   down and honestly the mac has taken a [TS]

01:21:15   beating in in enthusiast community as [TS]

01:21:17   recently as everyone it seems like [TS]

01:21:19   everybody wants to flee from the mac and [TS]

01:21:22   their that it seems like whenever the [TS]

01:21:24   ipad or iphone to get better we hear [TS]

01:21:26   from people who are just like seemingly [TS]

01:21:28   like can't wait to drop their mac like [TS]

01:21:31   it's like on fire like oh my god I i I'm [TS]

01:21:34   rushing these other things because I [TS]

01:21:35   just hated my max so but thank god i can [TS]

01:21:38   write and run to the ipad and i don't i [TS]

01:21:41   don't feel that at all I i love the mac [TS]

01:21:44   i think the heck is great and my only [TS]

01:21:46   concern is when Apple messes with the [TS]

01:21:48   mac in ways that I don't agree with or [TS]

01:21:50   that I think make it worse but even [TS]

01:21:52   those are few and far between relatively [TS]

01:21:53   speaking and the mac is awesome and I to [TS]

01:21:57   me the mac is my is my work machine and [TS]

01:22:00   my main machine [TS]

01:22:02   and i am not looking to constantly flee [TS]

01:22:04   the things i'm using if they're working [TS]

01:22:06   fine but you know that's I totally get [TS]

01:22:08   the driving force that makes people [TS]

01:22:10   think that way but I do think you know [TS]

01:22:13   for when somebody like you goes to try [TS]

01:22:15   the ipad as a as I could work device [TS]

01:22:17   even for this you know for this one task [TS]

01:22:19   you tried to do on it when it when you [TS]

01:22:21   run into one of those walls things that [TS]

01:22:22   can do it just seems like oh my god this [TS]

01:22:24   thing is worthless why would anybody [TS]

01:22:25   ever do this and you know that there's [TS]

01:22:28   basically went to summarize very long [TS]

01:22:29   rant there's reasons on both sides and [TS]

01:22:31   it depends [TS]

01:22:32   just like everything else that can [TS]

01:22:33   always be summarized this whole issue of [TS]

01:22:35   cases ipad use in trying to trying it [TS]

01:22:39   out on for size [TS]

01:22:40   remind me of a whole discussion after [TS]

01:22:43   your pockets I one of the ones with my [TS]

01:22:44   kids and my own podcast it's mike with a [TS]

01:22:46   while it does not narrow it down at all [TS]

01:22:48   we're discussing his use of the ipad and [TS]

01:22:50   Howie he remembered how it was just like [TS]

01:22:53   it a accessory thing but now there are [TS]

01:22:55   so many things that he prefers to do his [TS]

01:22:56   talking about that sitting in front of [TS]

01:22:58   his mac with his ipad using his ipad [TS]

01:23:01   like he's literally sitting in front of [TS]

01:23:02   his mac but instead of using the magnets [TS]

01:23:03   in front of him he says that God has [TS]

01:23:05   ipad propped up in front of him he's [TS]

01:23:06   using it to do things like sorting [TS]

01:23:09   through email or whatever a certain [TS]

01:23:11   classes of tests that he by his own [TS]

01:23:13   admission or less efficient on the ipad [TS]

01:23:15   but that that the thing that made him [TS]

01:23:18   want to use it was that he found the [TS]

01:23:19   more enjoyable to do on the ipad and [TS]

01:23:22   this is is not necessarily the factor [TS]

01:23:24   that is making people try to drop their [TS]

01:23:28   max like they're hot but different [TS]

01:23:30   expression but it is like the idea that [TS]

01:23:35   certain things and I've experienced this [TS]

01:23:37   too I think we all have with the ipad [TS]

01:23:39   maybe even Marco once in awhile certain [TS]

01:23:41   things feel more comfortable to do on [TS]

01:23:43   the ipad not even ergonomically speaking [TS]

01:23:45   but just like mentally like somehow that [TS]

01:23:48   our brain goes into a different state or [TS]

01:23:50   maybe we're sitting in a different chair [TS]

01:23:51   move with with mike example he was [TS]

01:23:53   actually literally sitting in the same [TS]

01:23:54   chair that is in front but he also [TS]

01:23:55   talked about doing it in bed or whatever [TS]

01:23:57   or just I don't know it like just that [TS]

01:24:01   it feels different to sort of like it [TS]

01:24:03   your body relaxes and you just kind of [TS]

01:24:05   like swiping things around on the screen [TS]

01:24:06   to you know [TS]

01:24:08   click this message over there scroll [TS]

01:24:09   down over there look at that I find that [TS]

01:24:11   a lot of browsing stuff like if i want [TS]

01:24:13   to read through Twitter like I'm [TS]

01:24:14   behind i want to catch up on Twitter or [TS]

01:24:16   something i find it much more [TS]

01:24:17   comfortable to catch up on Twitter on [TS]

01:24:20   iOS device than imac even though i know [TS]

01:24:22   that is more efficient to do on my Mac [TS]

01:24:24   because i can open the link in a web [TS]

01:24:26   browser faster because i'm adding so [TS]

01:24:27   much more powerful and bigger than my [TS]

01:24:28   click on the link browser window opens [TS]

01:24:30   there it is it's very fast and hard to [TS]

01:24:32   switch apt you know like I I know [TS]

01:24:34   intellectually that if you were to put a [TS]

01:24:36   stopwatch on door make any kind of [TS]

01:24:38   objective measure of efficiency you [TS]

01:24:41   would find that doing that task on the [TS]

01:24:42   mac is better but it feels better to do [TS]

01:24:45   it on iOS device and some of the terms [TS]

01:24:48   of the Leanback experience maybe that's [TS]

01:24:49   part of it like the written it that it's [TS]

01:24:51   more relaxing maybe it's just the [TS]

01:24:53   context switch that we all spend so much [TS]

01:24:55   time released i do sitting in front of a [TS]

01:24:56   computer all day that you know sitting [TS]

01:24:59   down on a couch also in front of a [TS]

01:25:01   computer but the computer is really flat [TS]

01:25:03   and you touch it somehow that like it's [TS]

01:25:04   a mode switch and it feels more relaxing [TS]

01:25:06   but i think that is that's part of this [TS]

01:25:10   negative factors into casey's discussion [TS]

01:25:13   of feeling like this is just you know he [TS]

01:25:15   was filled with the other side the [TS]

01:25:16   inefficiency that like I know how to do [TS]

01:25:19   this in another realm and I have to do [TS]

01:25:21   it on here and it's like a puzzle for me [TS]

01:25:22   to solve and it's annoying and it's the [TS]

01:25:24   worst kind of inefficiency because you [TS]

01:25:26   know you'd already be done by now if you [TS]

01:25:27   just did it on the mac right yeah but [TS]

01:25:30   but the flip side of that is when you [TS]

01:25:33   acknowledge the inefficiency and then it [TS]

01:25:35   just it just feels better and I'm not in [TS]

01:25:38   tight like that i'm not entirely sure [TS]

01:25:39   what all the different sources of that [TS]

01:25:41   feeling i know a few of them but i think [TS]

01:25:44   it's interesting phenomenon and i think [TS]

01:25:45   i think everyone who is used in iOS [TS]

01:25:47   devices spell that to some degree even [TS]

01:25:49   if you're just feeling on your phone [TS]

01:25:50   like I think it's a better example for [TS]

01:25:51   Marco doesn't really use iPads that much [TS]

01:25:53   some things just feel better to do on [TS]

01:25:56   your phone and groupers talk about how [TS]

01:25:57   he has preferred device for into it is [TS]

01:25:59   his phone because it just just feel like [TS]

01:26:01   the natural place to do a particular [TS]

01:26:02   activity and it's got to be less [TS]

01:26:04   efficient like you have you can put your [TS]

01:26:06   things on the screen if you want to tap [TS]

01:26:08   a link it's much more of a pain and you [TS]

01:26:09   go back and all this stuff but it just [TS]

01:26:11   feels better [TS]

01:26:12   yeah you know to provide a counterpoint [TS]

01:26:16   to my earlier lamentations when I was on [TS]

01:26:20   my way back from the armaments actually [TS]

01:26:22   at the at the beginning of the year when [TS]

01:26:24   we all congregated at marcos house [TS]

01:26:27   I was sitting in the back of errands car [TS]

01:26:29   with Declan trying to keep him occupied [TS]

01:26:31   and happy and whatnot then when he [TS]

01:26:33   wasn't in actively in need of you know [TS]

01:26:35   entertainment or whatever I was sitting [TS]

01:26:37   back there with the same ipad mini and I [TS]

01:26:40   was watching us [TS]

01:26:43   i was using ipad multitasking and I had [TS]

01:26:45   typically ways and like a third of the [TS]

01:26:48   screen on the right hand side in the [TS]

01:26:50   little multitasking area and in the main [TS]

01:26:52   window I was either slack or Twitter or [TS]

01:26:55   occasionally I've we were in a stretch [TS]

01:26:57   like say the Jersey Turnpike where we [TS]

01:26:58   didn't really need to worry about you [TS]

01:27:00   know directions or anything i would have [TS]

01:27:02   twitter as two-thirds of the screen and [TS]

01:27:04   slack is a third of the screen or maybe [TS]

01:27:06   even half-and-half and i have never [TS]

01:27:09   taken a car trip that felt easier [TS]

01:27:12   because i was entertained the entire way [TS]

01:27:15   congrats again on talking to Aaron and [TS]

01:27:17   stuff and I'm helping aaron and whatnot [TS]

01:27:19   everything helping Declan and whatnot [TS]

01:27:20   but when I was just sitting there kind [TS]

01:27:23   of doing my thing i could not have [TS]

01:27:25   enjoyed using the ipad more than that in [TS]

01:27:27   that moment because all the things that [TS]

01:27:29   used to suck about using iPads [TS]

01:27:31   constantly double pressing the home [TS]

01:27:32   button or using the multitasking [TS]

01:27:33   gestures to go back-and-forth [TS]

01:27:34   back-and-forth back-and-forth [TS]

01:27:36   back-and-forth all of that went away [TS]

01:27:38   when I could even use just two apps [TS]

01:27:41   simultaneously so in that case it was [TS]

01:27:44   magnificent being able to to use the [TS]

01:27:47   ipad and I think using a laptop would [TS]

01:27:49   have been considerably worse in the [TS]

01:27:51   backseat of a car is your hurdling down [TS]

01:27:53   the road because it firm among many [TS]

01:27:55   other reasons a laptop doesn't have a [TS]

01:27:58   cellular connection [TS]

01:27:59   yes I could have tethered to my phone [TS]

01:28:01   but still it was just it would have been [TS]

01:28:06   a lot more uncomfortable and so there [TS]

01:28:09   are definitely times and places and I'm [TS]

01:28:11   not trying to say that there's [TS]

01:28:12   consumption versus creation I'm not [TS]

01:28:13   trying to get into that argument it just [TS]

01:28:15   so happened that it worked really well [TS]

01:28:18   in this case for the sorts of things you [TS]

01:28:20   would want to do in the back are our [TS]

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01:28:38   this includes the really important stuff [TS]

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01:30:28   ATP thanks a lot i reconfigured my email [TS]

01:30:31   recently and accidentally had got mail [TS]

01:30:34   route misconfigured from my vertical [TS]

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01:30:41   because you don't even you don't even [TS]

01:30:42   see all the crap that comes to because I [TS]

01:30:44   don't really use that email address but [TS]

01:30:46   but it is publicly visible and so like [TS]

01:30:48   the web scrapers have long since found [TS]

01:30:51   it boy [TS]

01:30:51   but not what a nightmare so I've talked [TS]

01:30:54   way too much this episode people love [TS]

01:30:55   you man this is great [TS]

01:30:57   yeah people are all mad at me and John [TS]

01:30:59   for being negative Apple last week so we [TS]

01:31:00   need you to rescue us this man got your [TS]

01:31:02   listeners back that's it John you played [TS]

01:31:05   games lately it's one game i wanted to [TS]

01:31:07   talk about not review this maybe we'll [TS]

01:31:09   talk about it unlike some other products [TS]

01:31:11   we spoil the game everything but i just [TS]

01:31:13   wanted to encourage people to take a [TS]

01:31:17   look at the game because i have plated [TS]

01:31:19   and I enjoyed it and I don't want to [TS]

01:31:21   spoil it for you but i do want to [TS]

01:31:23   explain to you why you might want to [TS]

01:31:24   play this game the game is fire watched [TS]

01:31:26   by campo santo I don't know how to [TS]

01:31:29   pronounce the name of that I've never [TS]

01:31:30   actually said it out loud until now it [TS]

01:31:32   seems like a reasonable guess yeah out [TS]

01:31:34   in cooperation with our friends at panic [TS]

01:31:36   makers of transmitting koda and many [TS]

01:31:38   other fine products and other fun things [TS]

01:31:41   and they started development in this [TS]

01:31:44   game is the weird thing for panic to [TS]

01:31:46   even be involved at all because they are [TS]

01:31:47   mac and iOS software company not a game [TS]

01:31:49   maker but they are a lot of gamers on [TS]

01:31:51   the staff there and this is something i [TS]

01:31:53   want to try and so that helps to get [TS]

01:31:55   this project underway and it's a bunch [TS]

01:31:57   of game veterans actually making the [TS]

01:31:58   game so this is not a bunch of newbies [TS]

01:32:00   making this thing it's my type of game [TS]

01:32:03   if you heard me talk about games on [TS]

01:32:05   other podcasts I like artsy fartsy games [TS]

01:32:07   which is a way of saying like not games [TS]

01:32:10   that are filled and not the equivalent [TS]

01:32:14   of block west hollywood blockbuster [TS]

01:32:15   movies that are just like filled with [TS]

01:32:17   space marines and huge budgets and [TS]

01:32:19   millions and millions of people buy them [TS]

01:32:20   this is more like independent arthouse [TS]

01:32:24   movies that have a limited appeal but [TS]

01:32:26   the people like to really love them I [TS]

01:32:28   love games like that this is one of [TS]

01:32:29   those games and the reason i like want [TS]

01:32:32   to encourage people do this is back to [TS]

01:32:34   something I talk about hypocritical and [TS]

01:32:35   I always do well on the skill barrier to [TS]

01:32:39   enjoyment of video games i really [TS]

01:32:40   enjoyed video games I like other people [TS]

01:32:42   to enjoy them but I know there's some [TS]

01:32:43   inherent amount of experience with video [TS]

01:32:46   games that you need to have before you [TS]

01:32:48   can enjoy one much more so than other [TS]

01:32:51   media like movies where maybe you need [TS]

01:32:52   to have some knowledge of like the [TS]

01:32:54   history of film but in general a really [TS]

01:32:56   good movie can be enjoyed by anybody you [TS]

01:32:57   sort of lives in the same societies you [TS]

01:33:00   at the very least like video games [TS]

01:33:02   really there really are a lot of skills [TS]

01:33:04   they need to be required before you [TS]

01:33:06   don't have to think about those skills [TS]

01:33:08   and can instead enjoy the game for what [TS]

01:33:10   it is so Firewatch is one of those games [TS]

01:33:12   that requires very little of you in [TS]

01:33:16   terms of knowledge of how video games [TS]

01:33:18   work skill with the controller whatever [TS]

01:33:20   there's not a lot of complicated [TS]

01:33:22   mechanics it's not a lot of rules or [TS]

01:33:24   systems it doesn't demand lightning-fast [TS]

01:33:26   reflexes or anything like that it does [TS]

01:33:29   require you to know how to orient around [TS]

01:33:31   yourself in 3d space and sort of a [TS]

01:33:32   first-person type thing but it is very [TS]

01:33:34   slow and you won't be for the most part [TS]

01:33:37   rush there is some limited amount of [TS]

01:33:39   being able to use either a controller or [TS]

01:33:41   a mouse and a keyboard required of you [TS]

01:33:43   like it's not you know it's a game you [TS]

01:33:44   do have to play it but it is very gentle [TS]

01:33:47   and I think it's an interesting game [TS]

01:33:51   that it gives me an opportunity to [TS]

01:33:53   recommend it to people who i wouldn't [TS]

01:33:55   recommend so you know destiny or one of [TS]

01:33:57   some other game that I like that I just [TS]

01:33:58   know is not going to be appealing to [TS]

01:34:00   people who are into video games just so [TS]

01:34:01   complicated and so in depth so in my [TS]

01:34:05   ongoing effort to get more people to [TS]

01:34:06   like video games i would encourage [TS]

01:34:08   everybody who either has a playstation 4 [TS]

01:34:10   or a mac or pc to check out this game it [TS]

01:34:14   does require a somewhat substantial of [TS]

01:34:17   mac or pc i figured with the actual [TS]

01:34:19   requirements are but some people have [TS]

01:34:21   said on Twitter that it helps if you [TS]

01:34:24   have a discrete GPU on the mac i [TS]

01:34:26   don't--that's a hard-and-fast [TS]

01:34:26   requirement i played on the PlayStation [TS]

01:34:30   it's nice to have a playstation 4 busy [TS]

01:34:31   like a run to the PlayStation 4 i have [TS]

01:34:33   one of those I'm fine i think it runs [TS]

01:34:36   better on a beefy gaming pc or mac with [TS]

01:34:39   a big video card but you know from all [TS]

01:34:42   the people responding on Twitter like [TS]

01:34:44   you learn [TS]

01:34:44   nobody has a mac with a good video card [TS]

01:34:46   anymore they all have the you know [TS]

01:34:47   integrated graphics people in another [TS]

01:34:49   discrete graphics in there you know and [TS]

01:34:51   the laptops who gets three graphics but [TS]

01:34:52   anyway check that your requirements [TS]

01:34:55   before you buy it's available on Steam [TS]

01:34:56   they do have a better refund policy than [TS]

01:34:58   the apps in the app store so your you [TS]

01:35:02   might be in luck there [TS]

01:35:03   it's fairly inexpensive is like 20 bucks [TS]

01:35:05   or something it's not a long game which [TS]

01:35:07   you might think oh that's I'm not [TS]

01:35:08   getting value for money but i think that [TS]

01:35:10   is a good aspect of the game like this [TS]

01:35:12   the reason i recommend [TS]

01:35:13   it is you don't have to sink like a [TS]

01:35:15   hundred hours into this thing it you can [TS]

01:35:18   be finished with the game in between [TS]

01:35:19   three and four hours might be my first [TS]

01:35:22   run through the game was like three and [TS]

01:35:23   a half hours you could take much longer [TS]

01:35:24   if you go slower or whatever but the [TS]

01:35:25   point is you're not investing your whole [TS]

01:35:26   life in this game it's more like [TS]

01:35:28   watching a really long movie or maybe [TS]

01:35:30   two really long movies so think of the [TS]

01:35:32   length as a as a benefit to people i [TS]

01:35:35   think of it like that but as a benefit [TS]

01:35:37   to people who don't play games so much [TS]

01:35:38   because you don't want to send them in [TS]

01:35:39   the game [TS]

01:35:40   did you know really after the first 25 [TS]

01:35:42   hours it really starts to get [TS]

01:35:43   interesting [TS]

01:35:43   that's not that's a non-starter for [TS]

01:35:45   people haven't said anything about what [TS]

01:35:47   the game is about it's called Firewatch [TS]

01:35:50   it's the ideas like a big house in the [TS]

01:35:53   middle of the woods that you look around [TS]

01:35:54   into spot fires in the woods and report [TS]

01:35:56   them if you're like a forest ranger uh [TS]

01:35:58   that doesn't tell you anything about the [TS]

01:36:01   game so what do i do i just go to this [TS]

01:36:02   place and look out the window it is a [TS]

01:36:03   narrative type game where there is [TS]

01:36:08   mostly you're in for the characters and [TS]

01:36:09   the stories again is not based on [TS]

01:36:11   mechanics you're not going to be you [TS]

01:36:12   know you know traversing a tech tree a [TS]

01:36:15   whore finding resources or leveling up [TS]

01:36:18   your character doing the other things [TS]

01:36:20   you typically do in more traditional [TS]

01:36:22   game this is much more of a narrative [TS]

01:36:23   driven game all these things that I've [TS]

01:36:26   said about the game may make people who [TS]

01:36:28   are into games the so-called hardcore [TS]

01:36:31   gamers who love games like starcraft and [TS]

01:36:34   destiny and you know [TS]

01:36:36   battlefront and all these other things [TS]

01:36:37   like people love those type of games you [TS]

01:36:39   know gamey games you know that the [TS]

01:36:40   quote-unquote self-described gamers may [TS]

01:36:43   think this is not the game for them and [TS]

01:36:44   maybe it isn't because i like 10 games [TS]

01:36:46   like artsy fartsy games but if you [TS]

01:36:47   demand the challenge of a blood-borne or [TS]

01:36:49   something you're not going to find it [TS]

01:36:50   here so I but I feel like gamers already [TS]

01:36:52   know about this game they know all the [TS]

01:36:54   review sites they read reviews of it in [TS]

01:36:55   over this is that the game they're going [TS]

01:36:56   to like I mostly talking to the people [TS]

01:36:58   who would think video games that's not [TS]

01:37:00   for me that you're complicated consider [TS]

01:37:02   giving the truck it could be like I said [TS]

01:37:04   I've people on Twitter basket i always [TS]

01:37:06   ask them have you played the first [TS]

01:37:08   person game before you have any sort of [TS]

01:37:09   like medium level of competence of like [TS]

01:37:12   oh I know which direction I'm pointed in [TS]

01:37:14   a 3d World and I can walk around and [TS]

01:37:16   look at things that's really all that's [TS]

01:37:18   required of you and some minor button [TS]

01:37:19   pressing if you pass that hurdle give it [TS]

01:37:23   a try [TS]

01:37:23   and Mark own cases should definitely [TS]

01:37:25   play it because it's short and they [TS]

01:37:27   never play any games and they can both [TS]

01:37:28   be just fine [TS]

01:37:29   whether they'll enjoy it or not who [TS]

01:37:31   knows because I don't get one of them [TS]

01:37:32   likes artsy-fartsy movies as far as that [TS]

01:37:34   goes but for everyone else [TS]

01:37:36   check it out it's really cool and [TS]

01:37:37   minimum the game looks beautiful even if [TS]

01:37:40   you just launched a look at the title [TS]

01:37:41   screen and go [TS]

01:37:42   damn those guys are good at what they do [TS]

01:37:43   now serious question can can we pull [TS]

01:37:46   Merlin on this and do it in half and [TS]

01:37:48   half or do you really need to dedicate [TS]

01:37:50   like three or four hours to I don't [TS]

01:37:51   think you need to do the one sitting I [TS]

01:37:52   didn't want something accidentally like [TS]

01:37:54   i was i was saving this for the weekend [TS]

01:37:56   because i liked to have had the game for [TS]

01:37:58   a little while to after awhile I was [TS]

01:37:59   like I don't want to like I want to rush [TS]

01:38:01   it on a work night or you know be up [TS]

01:38:02   later whatever to stay for the weekend [TS]

01:38:04   but last night my wife wanted to do [TS]

01:38:06   something else instead of watch TV show [TS]

01:38:08   that makes you want to watch the one [TS]

01:38:09   that shows that she was just like all [TS]

01:38:10   find something to myself I said you know [TS]

01:38:12   I've got fire watching people's people [TS]

01:38:14   talking about on the internet maybe even [TS]

01:38:16   just don't know just started maybe I'll [TS]

01:38:18   just launched its see what it's like or [TS]

01:38:19   whatever and then I started playing in [TS]

01:38:21   of course they couldn't stop and you [TS]

01:38:23   know i just ran through the whole game [TS]

01:38:24   one setting you do not need to play this [TS]

01:38:25   entire game one sitting but i would [TS]

01:38:26   encourage you to play the game and a [TS]

01:38:28   small number of sittings don't play for [TS]

01:38:30   five minutes and then leave the next day [TS]

01:38:32   in five minutes with me for the next day [TS]

01:38:33   like because it is a narrative because [TS]

01:38:35   it is all that moving character you need [TS]

01:38:37   to have some amount of through-line like [TS]

01:38:39   you wouldn't watch you know it say [TS]

01:38:42   you're watching like a four-hour movie [TS]

01:38:44   you would watching five-minute [TS]

01:38:45   increments what you want to do in two [TS]

01:38:46   sittings that's probably okay actually [TS]

01:38:47   it's really not okay because i have [TS]

01:38:48   different rules for movies but this game [TS]

01:38:50   i'm gonna say if you want to do in [TS]

01:38:52   multiple settings that fine if you do it [TS]

01:38:54   on one is great and I think it's even [TS]

01:38:55   more powerful that way but asking [TS]

01:38:57   someone to sit in front of their TV for [TS]

01:38:58   three to four hours is asking probably a [TS]

01:39:02   bit too much of someone who's not into [TS]

01:39:03   games [TS]

01:39:04   fair enough that i'd like to try i [TS]

01:39:06   wanted to try to even before you were [TS]

01:39:08   talking about it but we'll see when I [TS]

01:39:10   have the time knowing me it'll be it [TS]

01:39:12   I don't know year and a half men don't [TS]

01:39:13   like that so yeah it's always going to [TS]

01:39:15   read any spoilers for it just you'll be [TS]

01:39:17   fine [TS]

01:39:18   that's that's also part of the reason [TS]

01:39:19   was afraid I was gonna get spoiled like [TS]

01:39:20   better going to get going on this sooner [TS]

01:39:23   rather than later [TS]

01:39:24   yeah yeah hopefully we'll hopefully I'll [TS]

01:39:26   find the time try it soon [TS]

01:39:28   alright alright thanks a lot two or [TS]

01:39:30   three sponsors this week [TS]

01:39:31   Squarespace a glue and mail route and we [TS]

01:39:33   will see you next week [TS]

01:39:35   now the show is over they didn't even [TS]

01:39:40   mean to begin as it was accidental [TS]

01:39:44   it was accidental [TS]

01:39:48   John research Marco in kc wouldn't let [TS]

01:39:52   him because it was accidentally was [TS]

01:39:56   accidental and you can find show know [TS]

01:40:00   the day EP die and if your twitter [TS]

01:40:05   follow them [TS]

01:40:09   yes byl ISS so that's Casey list and a [TS]

01:40:14   co-pay rm20 Marco Arment and our AC at [TS]

01:40:23   Syracuse [TS]

01:40:36   so here's a question so I i am [TS]

01:40:39   interested in playing Firewatch i have a [TS]

01:40:42   that I have this imac i also have a ps4 [TS]

01:40:44   I generally prefer using a computer for [TS]

01:40:47   first-person games but I don't want to [TS]

01:40:51   install steam [TS]

01:40:52   why not stainless Feinstein's least of [TS]

01:40:54   your concerns team is nice actually i [TS]

01:40:56   think that this is a lot of mac users [TS]

01:40:58   first experience with steam and it looks [TS]

01:41:00   atrocious and it's filled with like I [TS]

01:41:01   wonder companies don't get sued for this [TS]

01:41:03   like you remember the old gumball window [TS]

01:41:04   widgets the red yellow and green you [TS]

01:41:07   know when they used to look like they [TS]

01:41:08   look like glowing spheres well so steam [TS]

01:41:10   is entirely seems not a native mac [TS]

01:41:12   application i don't know what it's made [TS]

01:41:13   out of but they basically took steam and [TS]

01:41:15   dressed it up in the skin a mac [TS]

01:41:17   application and you know with their own [TS]

01:41:19   graphic so they basically copied and [TS]

01:41:21   pasted the old glowing balls from like [TS]

01:41:23   10.6 or whatever and put them in the [TS]

01:41:25   corner of their windows and then just [TS]

01:41:27   left them there and as the OSS vol.10 [TS]

01:41:29   710 810 910 it little glowing balls are [TS]

01:41:33   still out there and you realize that [TS]

01:41:34   really isn't like nothing on the screen [TS]

01:41:36   as a negative control it and like nope [TS]

01:41:38   they're just did is a you know a wolf in [TS]

01:41:41   sheep's clothing so it doesn't it looks [TS]

01:41:43   weird doesn't look anything like a mac [TS]

01:41:44   app or whatever but here's what i like [TS]

01:41:45   about steam it also doesn't work and [TS]

01:41:47   install the startup items everywhere [TS]

01:41:49   it's like not what I did not start out [TS]

01:41:51   by a while yeah it does want around [TS]

01:41:52   launch but you can you can turn that off [TS]

01:41:54   yeah it constantly runs it it puts [TS]

01:41:56   itself everywhere and it's a terrible [TS]

01:41:58   app and it's like the well here's what's [TS]

01:42:01   good about steam it lets you download [TS]

01:42:02   games and play them which sounds like [TS]

01:42:04   that's what so what [TS]

01:42:05   but in the days before steam when you [TS]

01:42:07   have to download some kind of installer [TS]

01:42:09   to your windows pc and get the installer [TS]

01:42:11   to run with on the same on the same pc [TS]

01:42:14   that other games are also installed on [TS]

01:42:15   and they would fight each other and you [TS]

01:42:17   have to fight over graphics card [TS]

01:42:18   settings there's a reason steam is so [TS]

01:42:20   popular because it took the terrible [TS]

01:42:22   world of gaming on the pc not [TS]

01:42:23   necessarily the mac because it was very [TS]

01:42:25   little game they're all getting on the [TS]

01:42:26   pc and made it way less terrible it's [TS]

01:42:30   still not as good as it should be [TS]

01:42:32   maybe but I love steam and I even love [TS]

01:42:34   steam on the mac even though it has a [TS]

01:42:35   weird updater even though it wants to [TS]

01:42:37   launch on login items like it does silly [TS]

01:42:39   things you can stop it from doing them [TS]

01:42:41   it doesn't come with malware it has [TS]

01:42:42   better for the most part has better [TS]

01:42:45   you know and refund policy and sales and [TS]

01:42:49   trials and all the other things that you [TS]

01:42:50   can do in early access and stuff better [TS]

01:42:52   than the app store now that's a high bar [TS]

01:42:54   but better than the app store for buying [TS]

01:42:56   games probably have stuff for selling [TS]

01:42:59   games as well the cable was tweeting [TS]

01:43:01   today how exciting it was that on the [TS]

01:43:02   day they launched fire watching steam [TS]

01:43:05   they had already issued two bug fix [TS]

01:43:07   updates because I'm statements and steam [TS]

01:43:09   once your game is accepted to the to the [TS]

01:43:11   steam store you do updates without any [TS]

01:43:13   interference at all you just post them [TS]

01:43:15   they go up immediately [TS]

01:43:16   yeah I wouldn't mind Apple taking some [TS]

01:43:18   of their inspiration for the app store [TS]

01:43:21   from steam if they if they want to know [TS]

01:43:23   where things could be improved [TS]

01:43:24   don't look at the apple the app store [TS]

01:43:25   apps are garbage but don't look at the [TS]

01:43:26   steam app because the steam app kind of [TS]

01:43:29   to me the steam at feels like how do I [TS]

01:43:31   put this gently it feels like not only a [TS]

01:43:35   Windows app that is running on your Mac [TS]

01:43:36   not only that because bad enough but it [TS]

01:43:39   also feels like it is a Windows web app [TS]

01:43:42   designed to run in internet explorer 3.0 [TS]

01:43:45   which they have embedded in the app and [TS]

01:43:49   is running in virtual pc and malaysian [TS]

01:43:53   through Rosetta emulation on your Mac [TS]

01:43:55   that's how it feel I think it's better [TS]

01:43:57   than the mac app store apps you don't [TS]

01:43:58   you think it's better than the Mac App [TS]

01:43:59   Store app just in terms of the sheer [TS]

01:44:01   number of features the ways you can view [TS]

01:44:03   your data it is not as good as the iOS [TS]

01:44:05   App Store app which again is not saying [TS]

01:44:06   much but it is way better than the mac [TS]

01:44:08   app store at because the Mac App Store [TS]

01:44:09   app actually works worse than steam and [TS]

01:44:14   that is saying a lot because the steam [TS]

01:44:15   app just does not work doing so many [TS]

01:44:17   stupid little things but wow the Mac App [TS]

01:44:19   Store app is even worse anyway I would [TS]

01:44:22   heartily endorse team as a way for mac [TS]

01:44:24   for Mac users to get and play games even [TS]

01:44:27   though the place the you buy stuff [TS]

01:44:29   through his little bit weird and look [TS]

01:44:31   strange [TS]

01:44:32   just because you will be successful you [TS]

01:44:35   will be able to purchase a game it will [TS]

01:44:37   download it for you when you want to [TS]

01:44:39   launch you go to steam steam and you can [TS]

01:44:41   double click it and you'll be able to [TS]

01:44:42   play the game and you will never be able [TS]

01:44:43   to get rid of steam again you cannot [TS]

01:44:45   install a fine and that that's the best [TS]

01:44:47   thing about steam is like it's that you [TS]

01:44:49   know all the all the great things about [TS]

01:44:50   the app store before the appstore say [TS]

01:44:52   you're done playing game and you want to [TS]

01:44:53   free up some hard drive space on [TS]

01:44:54   installing weight is the game gone did I [TS]

01:44:56   lose everything [TS]

01:44:57   well behaved modern steam game [TS]

01:44:59   save all your save stuff and stayed in [TS]

01:45:01   the cloud and everything so you can [TS]

01:45:02   install the game to free up disk space [TS]

01:45:04   know that you can reinstall the game [TS]

01:45:06   later and get all your stuff back again [TS]

01:45:08   well-behaved students [TS]

01:45:10   you have to have some interesting games [TS]

01:45:11   don't do that and it really annoys me [TS]

01:45:13   but the good ones do everything right [TS]