155: Edit, Crop, Aspect, Original

0:00:00what what's happening why like I don't

0:00:02ya

0:00:04Matthew cocks roading to tell us about

0:00:07serial numbers and logic boards we have

0:00:09actually gotten quite a considerable

0:00:10amount of feedback about this but I

0:00:12don't much feel like I guess John that

0:00:14you felt that Matthews feedback was

0:00:17perhaps the best summary so would you

0:00:18like to tell us about this have any time

0:00:21we ask any question the Apple geniuses

0:00:22or the X appletinis all come out and

0:00:24this was about a serial numbers and

0:00:26motherboards and where the serial number

0:00:28being etched into metal on various Apple

0:00:31computers and what if you get parts

0:00:32replaced the serial numbers attached to

0:00:34the only thing the geniuses couldn't

0:00:37tell us is a fax from my past that I

0:00:41can't remember because I'm hold I had

0:00:43this big memory of getting some parts

0:00:45swapped in the distant past that none of

0:00:48these guys know about because they

0:00:49probably weren't able to you stand

0:00:51because apple stores didn't exist then

0:00:52or maybe I don't know anyway the idea

0:00:55was that I got a computer back and then

0:00:57they were like oh just so you know your

0:00:58serial number we will be different now

0:01:00because we replace the parts that

0:01:01determine that but anyway in this modern

0:01:03day and age in some as of now and Sunday

0:01:07indeterminate time in the past that i

0:01:08can remember back to all of the

0:01:11motherboards Apple cells are apparently

0:01:13able to be flashed with the serial

0:01:14number so when they give you one they

0:01:15just you know they put stay put your old

0:01:17serial number into it so your serial

0:01:19number of your computer doesn't change

0:01:20even if they replace the part that

0:01:21contains the serial number I put Matthew

0:01:24Cox's thing in here because of the

0:01:25interesting bit that each part is

0:01:27factory repair to reuse three times

0:01:29before being scrapped so you're supposed

0:01:31to only flash three different serial

0:01:33numbers into their although in theory

0:01:35there's you could bypass that if you

0:01:37wanted to and what else that we haven't

0:01:41hear about the stickers the ideas you're

0:01:43not supposed to be able to see the

0:01:44sticker sometimes they'll be a part of

0:01:46this replace that hasn't edging on and

0:01:47those cases the technician is supposed

0:01:49to use permanent marker to know the

0:01:50serial number obviously this is not an

0:01:52invisible location you wouldn't see it

0:01:53but some people send screenshots of the

0:01:56permanent marker thing like that they

0:01:58need to write the actual Syria more on

0:02:00the part if it's not etched into it and

0:02:02so on the inside and the place that you

0:02:04won't see they just in their little

0:02:05scroll handwriting right in this serial

0:02:08number and why would wouldn't want to

0:02:10know that's on my computer so it is

0:02:12tell me how do you think you're in your

0:02:15monitor your cinema display I i hope not

0:02:18because I well knows I don't want to

0:02:20think about it but anyway the external

0:02:22case on my monitor is the same i could

0:02:23help us get all the scratches they put

0:02:25into it every time it gets repairing

0:02:26their father like that's not that they

0:02:31always ask that survey like how is the

0:02:32external appearance of your thing it's

0:02:34like it's fine like a regular person

0:02:36won't notice it but it's literally

0:02:37impossible to handle things like this

0:02:40that are just like this perfect anodized

0:02:42aluminum finish heavy things and like

0:02:46moving them around it's impossible to

0:02:48not get scratches on it so they do every

0:02:50time it goes in and out small ones that

0:02:52mostly you can't see but anyway and the

0:02:56final but i thought was interesting is

0:02:57that Apple are starting to put serial

0:03:00numbers on other internal components and

0:03:05he says this ensures that no threeways

0:03:06swaps are carried out for warranty scams

0:03:09and also that each part is we used three

0:03:10times these parts usually have tiny QR

0:03:12codes on them about the half the size of

0:03:13a small fingernail which require

0:03:15expensive barcode scanner to scan in

0:03:17which are declared during the repair

0:03:19process for tracking purposes so not

0:03:21just like big things like your

0:03:22motherboard whatever be little tiny part

0:03:242 little tiny serial numbers and little

0:03:26tiny QR codes to keep track of them all

0:03:28and to make sure that the right and they

0:03:30say that the technicians like it because

0:03:32it's much easier to see it with the

0:03:34fancy barcode scanner to scan the tiny

0:03:35little QR codes then trying to read tiny

0:03:38little alphanumeric codes through a

0:03:39magnifying glass and copying them down

0:03:41because you know the zeros look like

0:03:43it's you know look like bees and all

0:03:45these other problems in this tiny thing

0:03:47so I was interesting that the the serial

0:03:50number proliferation and using all that

0:03:52with that you know sort of modern

0:03:54techniques to track it to make sure that

0:03:55the parts are used three times and then

0:03:57trash and stuff like that so never fear

0:03:59your serial number will not change part

0:04:02all part of the process a lot of people

0:04:03wrote about was like the technicians are

0:04:06really supposed to give you your serial

0:04:07number because you get it and they don't

0:04:08give it to you with your old serial

0:04:11number into it or with no serial number

0:04:12and lots of stuff won't work like I

0:04:14message will be all cranky universe

0:04:15serial number any sort of thing is

0:04:17derived from the serial number

0:04:18involving like authentication or you

0:04:20know like your hard drive and all your

0:04:21data will all be the same but the OS and

0:04:24the computer will be very angry if you

0:04:26there

0:04:26they forgot to put a serial number on it

0:04:28flashed into the motherboard they

0:04:29replace or they put a different one into

0:04:31it so this I forget sometimes that the

0:04:35techniques we used to make people

0:04:36remember it but anyway everyone's doing

0:04:38their job right you shouldn't have to

0:04:39worry about this issue at all you'll

0:04:41just have to think maybe a little about

0:04:43someone's handwriting and permanent

0:04:44marker on the inside of your computer

0:04:46good news i just want to see your face

0:04:50if you open up your computer one day and

0:04:52see somebody's chicken scratch in there

0:04:53and in sharpie

0:04:54oh god I only accept the etched in

0:04:57signatures of the original Macintosh

0:04:59team which I do have the inside of a

0:05:01couple of my computers in the Attic

0:05:03oh my goodness alright so tell us about

0:05:05long-distance wireless charging John

0:05:07that was the end of the last episode I

0:05:09think talking about you asked about a

0:05:11case he like inductive charging like

0:05:13what if there's no lightning port what

0:05:14if you just have to put your phone on

0:05:15like a pad or mad or some other things

0:05:17that way to watch chargers where you

0:05:19don't plug something into it but you

0:05:21just rest it on something and Marcus

0:05:24talk about how that's maybe not such a

0:05:25great idea because you have all these

0:05:26pads and even watches annoying with its

0:05:29little pad that comes with it and you

0:05:30know that and then I throughout like the

0:05:33idea of well what would be something

0:05:35that everyone can agree would be great

0:05:36is if you didn't have to put it on a pad

0:05:38or plug it into anything you just plug

0:05:40something into the wall in the room and

0:05:43then all the devices in the room get

0:05:44charged somehow it gets power wirelessly

0:05:46from that location specifically targeted

0:05:48teach device and your liver

0:05:50yeah and i think i just threw that out

0:05:52there as as a thing but apparently lots

0:05:55of companies are working on this tech

0:05:56will throw some links in the show notes

0:05:58as our technical article links to

0:06:00bloomberg garlic article talks about

0:06:01companies doing stuff like this of

0:06:03course they're competing standards and

0:06:05you know they're saying the current ones

0:06:06are much slower than plugging in wires

0:06:08you might imagine and the other link

0:06:10putting the challenge is to Artemis the

0:06:12company with the piece cell technology

0:06:14that we talked about a while ago LOL is

0:06:15anything going on with them

0:06:17that was the whole thing with them was

0:06:19like the Sun besides the thing that they

0:06:20were promoting they have a little teaser

0:06:22at the end of the winter like oh and

0:06:23there are other applications that were

0:06:25thinking about this technology we're not

0:06:26ready to discuss and everybody who

0:06:28I wrote about that star was like we

0:06:30think probably what they're talking

0:06:32about his power delivery because they're

0:06:33they're cool technology was like they

0:06:34could you know use your computer is

0:06:38essentially to calculate the correct

0:06:39interference pattern to exactly target

0:06:42the devices that are that are in range

0:06:44so it's sort of manipulate all the big

0:06:47overlapping bouncing waveforms would

0:06:49like sort of feedback loop until it

0:06:50would hone in on wherever your phone is

0:06:53and it would track it like you you could

0:06:56become you know that anything like you

0:06:57can go to carbon to go over 70 miles an

0:06:59hour it's not fast enough to keep up

0:07:00with where you are anything like that

0:07:01but for people just walking around

0:07:02holding their phones it would use

0:07:04interference as an advantage that have a

0:07:06disadvantage of using the power of

0:07:08computers to figure out this complicated

0:07:10math to exactly target so we're

0:07:12basically doing is taking you know

0:07:13electromagnetic radiation and

0:07:15concentrating it in a fairly small areas

0:07:18just it's just Wi-Fi you know it's there

0:07:19or cell signal is not it's not radiation

0:07:21that's going to do anything harmful but

0:07:23once you have that ability to basically

0:07:25say I can take electromagnetic radiation

0:07:27and targeted a very small area but you

0:07:29can move wherever the hell you want

0:07:30we'll keep up with wherever it is then

0:07:33if you crank up the power you know like

0:07:35you know it's just some form of

0:07:37delivering energy through the air to

0:07:39charge your battery you can really crank

0:07:42it up ambient Lee because like then you

0:07:43know if you put all your devices in a

0:07:45microwave and it that that bombards it

0:07:48with lots of high-energy electromagnetic

0:07:50radiation but it is uniformly it doesn't

0:07:52like everything in them are Grievous is

0:07:54hitting that you can't make an entire

0:07:57room a microwave oven not the person to

0:07:59use microwave radiation but anyway you

0:08:01really need to target because if you

0:08:02targeted then you can crank up the power

0:08:04and everybody else in the room doesn't

0:08:06get a huge amount of a power thrown into

0:08:09them just a spot where you're targeting

0:08:11it does you still have to stay within

0:08:12reasonable safe limits was like you

0:08:14talking about cooking your internal

0:08:15organs and if they're often wear the

0:08:17same it or whatever but the ability to

0:08:20target a small area is what gives you

0:08:23the ability to turn the power dialogue

0:08:25even at all

0:08:26both practically speaking because you

0:08:28because you're concentrating in a

0:08:30smaller area and also because if you

0:08:32start to get into the room depending on

0:08:34what wavelength and signals using start

0:08:36getting into the realm where they could

0:08:37actually affect the human body at the

0:08:40very least you're not just

0:08:42you know doing it every single person

0:08:44standing in the room you just don't make

0:08:45it to the hand that's holding the phone

0:08:47or whatever so I imagine that the

0:08:50companies are working on this tech are

0:08:51working on it at such a low power that

0:08:54it's not does not pose a harm to humans

0:08:56and it's probably not as fancy as the

0:08:58pcl thing where exactly targets with

0:09:01this constructive interference thing is

0:09:03probably much you know simpler and lower

0:09:05power than that but for a situation

0:09:08the reason I was a thinking about this

0:09:09even not just like oh you show up in the

0:09:11hotel room and you just plugs ward and

0:09:13all your devices charge even for home

0:09:15use it like plugging in your phone

0:09:18before you go to sleep

0:09:19it's not eight hours to charge and take

0:09:20eight hours to charge your phone takes

0:09:21way less than that so if I could just

0:09:23not to worry about plugging my phone if

0:09:25whenever my phone was just on my

0:09:27nightstand anywhere on my nightstand not

0:09:29on a special pad or like even just

0:09:31anywhere in my bedroom if I knew that if

0:09:33I put my phone anywhere my bedroom and

0:09:34go to sleep and wake up in the morning

0:09:36will be fully charged and I have to do

0:09:37nothing i would buy that thing likewise

0:09:39you don't care how slow charges you're

0:09:41gonna be asleep for many hours n double

0:09:43you know maybe when our current iPad

0:09:45because sometimes it takes forever to

0:09:46chargement even just the very simple

0:09:48very low-power version of this that

0:09:50didn't require me to please remember to

0:09:51plug my phone and I'd buy that in a

0:09:53second so i hope the people working on

0:09:55this get it done sooner rather than

0:09:57later

0:09:57just watch where you put your hand on

0:09:59your liver at night maybe so little

0:10:01power they'll be barely trickling and

0:10:03maybe we'll keep me warm and he's cold

0:10:04holding his New England winters when

0:10:06it's 60 degrees here today over there

0:10:08so what tell us about the shared ipad

0:10:12development guidelines which I didn't

0:10:13even know was the thing until I saw this

0:10:14in the show notes we talked about at

0:10:16times like the education

0:10:17ya know I didn't beds at the multi user

0:10:19account things sure I just didn't see

0:10:21the developer guidelines until tonight

0:10:23yeah this is just a public URL so you're

0:10:25gonna go to it you can see like that the

0:10:26guidelines for like say you're going to

0:10:28write an application it's gonna be on

0:10:29one of these shared iPads in the

0:10:30classroom where you got 20 different

0:10:32students they could all

0:10:32quarter-on-quarter login to your iPad

0:10:34Mini time and it's all the same things

0:10:37that we thought I just you know

0:10:38following up on us to put the URL in

0:10:40there like the guidelines like make sure

0:10:41you put all the data in the cloud this

0:10:42is this is for app developers if you're

0:10:44writing an app that you want to be

0:10:45well-behaved but all you did in the

0:10:47curtain the cloud pull data down when

0:10:49you need it every time someone does

0:10:51something to change the data

0:10:52I back up into the cloud all the little

0:10:55things that you used to keeping locally

0:10:57like they first launched our progress

0:11:00flags like having launched this app

0:11:02before what screen where they on or

0:11:03whatever that stuff that used to keep

0:11:05like in a little plist locally don't you

0:11:07gotta put that in the cloud to otherwise

0:11:08every time someone logs in it looked

0:11:09like their first launching it over and

0:11:11over again and use all the api's that

0:11:14Apple's and over the past few years

0:11:16about marking your storage is

0:11:17purchasable by the OS so i can come

0:11:20through and say I'm allowed to delete

0:11:21that because the app has told me that it

0:11:24is available elsewhere so if i deleted

0:11:26it's fine because again we have 20

0:11:27students they can't all fit their data

0:11:29on there as multiple students log in and

0:11:31new day its fold down from the clouds

0:11:33going to inevitably evicted from the

0:11:35like the first time you use it five

0:11:36logins ago and they talk about you know

0:11:40using the various api for thinking stuff

0:11:42well but and so these guidelines this is

0:11:46you know it's for its 4shared ipad which

0:11:49is their education thing but these same

0:11:51guidelines are very similar to the

0:11:52guidelines they've given to people on

0:11:54iOS and even less time again with the

0:11:56the marking your data as possible and

0:11:59doing everything with the cloud and so

0:12:01that the state is kept in local machine

0:12:03built even closer to the apple TV where

0:12:05the apple TV from the start even they

0:12:07specifically say you have no persistent

0:12:09storage only iCloud yep and then you can

0:12:13your app can even be that big so have

0:12:14your app has to be pulled down on demand

0:12:16as well so these are these are like guys

0:12:17many people find out like this is like

0:12:19slowly inch by inch creeping up onto the

0:12:22Chromebook model which is you know of

0:12:24course there's nothing on this computer

0:12:25this computer is nothing

0:12:26this computer is basically a local cache

0:12:28of some stuff that lives elsewhere

0:12:30nothing is ever canonically on this

0:12:31computer which is a great idea and

0:12:34google just skipped everything went

0:12:35right to their and your whole OS a web

0:12:37browser and so on and so forth

0:12:38apple is slowly moving up to it very

0:12:40slowly but every little bit helps our

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0:14:05ATP thanks a lot to audible for

0:14:07sponsoring our show so earlier today

0:14:10Walt Mossberg discovered the functional

0:14:12high ground but into this year and this

0:14:15year I want to say anything this year

0:14:16everyone's doing for me now you just

0:14:18planted the seed uu incepted the tech

0:14:20press that's not the past tense of

0:14:22inception anyway the point is great but

0:14:23I'm sorry tech for us

0:14:26whoops sorry I so Walt wrote on the

0:14:30verge of an article about how he really

0:14:32feels like Apple software quality has

0:14:34gone downhill lately and so there are a

0:14:36couple of quotes i wanted to pull out

0:14:37and really quickly and then this is walt

0:14:40mossberg again in the last couple of

0:14:42years however have noticed a gradual

0:14:43degradation in the quality and

0:14:44reliability of apples core apps on both

0:14:47the mobile iOS operating system and its

0:14:48Mac os10 platform he doesn't know the

0:14:51name of the mac operating systems that's

0:14:52fine well we know it's almost as if the

0:14:55tech giant has taken his eye off the

0:14:57ball when it comes to these core

0:14:58software products while pursues big new

0:15:00dreams like smartwatches and cars fast

0:15:02forward a little bit but the exceptions

0:15:04are increasing and I hold Apple to its

0:15:06own higher often proclaim standard based

0:15:09on all these quote it just works quote

0:15:11claims of the oft-repeated contention by

0:15:14mr. jobs in his successor Tim Cook that

0:15:16Apple isn't business to make quote great

0:15:18products

0:15:19apple of apples advantage is that it

0:15:22designs and build software together so

0:15:24if the software is an excellent it does

0:15:25the superlative hardware a disservice

0:15:28it was um it was a pretty Stern lashing

0:15:33that I thought that Walt gave and he

0:15:35seems to from what I want from what i've

0:15:37read of want Walt Mossberg he seems to

0:15:40generally like apple stuff quite a bit

0:15:42he said in this article you know I still

0:15:44think the iphone is the best smartphone

0:15:45i still love their hardware but man the

0:15:47software is it's getting a little crummy

0:15:50these days and it's fascinating to me to

0:15:54see someone at the verge which clearly

0:15:58has a readership that surpasses market

0:16:00org you know it someone they're saying

0:16:04you know what guys

0:16:05things are looking a little rough these

0:16:07days and i don't know if you guys have

0:16:09anything you'd like to add about this

0:16:11but I mean at what point and i feel like

0:16:12i've asked this question you guys a

0:16:14thousand times at what point does Apple

0:16:16recognize this and start to fix it at

0:16:19this article like so many like so many

0:16:21articles and Walt Mossberg those people

0:16:23used to riding like it's necessarily has

0:16:25to be like it's almost as if he's

0:16:26writing for a newspaper column inches

0:16:28that he can't he's not going to go on

0:16:30for just pages and pages as some people

0:16:33are going to do he's gonna get in and

0:16:36out quickly but it also means that he

0:16:38can't really support his contention

0:16:40particularly well-liked it's just kind

0:16:43of like look at you already agree with

0:16:44me that you will enjoy my complaining

0:16:46session and outside if you small

0:16:48examples but there's no there's no like

0:16:50systematic support for the thesis no

0:16:52attempt to explain why it's just like

0:16:54you know what sometimes things don't

0:16:55work for me and I'm cranky about it and

0:16:58immediately jump to I think this is part

0:16:59of an overall trend but by being just

0:17:02one more pebble in this little mountain

0:17:04or whatever it doesn't really matter

0:17:05what he says it sort of all that matters

0:17:07is that there's an article on this topic

0:17:10uh yet another article on this topic

0:17:13groped about it to a lot of people

0:17:15reacting to it because he's Walmart's

0:17:16berg Dalrymple to yeah because he's

0:17:19almost bergen because the verge of the

0:17:20big side or whatever in the media

0:17:24sometimes there are these fads where

0:17:25people get on a kick of like you know

0:17:27complaining about a particular thing or

0:17:29harping on a particular topic so there's

0:17:30that to look forward as well and that

0:17:32like once one sort of a narrative gets

0:17:35out there every publication wants to

0:17:37have a piece either about that topic

0:17:39supporting it or you know surrounding it

0:17:41comes and goes we know that works but

0:17:42its good points at this point you know

0:17:45marketing a long time ago and he and I

0:17:47was like last year or something

0:17:48yeah 13 months ago and he wasn't the

0:17:51first one to complain about us over

0:17:52quality won't be the last but the fact

0:17:54is that like we've had these flare-ups

0:17:56but it's not as if it just goes away and

0:17:58people go year later would normally be

0:18:00talking about apple software quality

0:18:01like I i would feel like multiple years

0:18:03at this point and that you could say

0:18:05that you know part of the media

0:18:07narrative and the sort of feeding on

0:18:08itself they're getting more strident an

0:18:10urgent but I even ignoring that just

0:18:12seem like they're not going away but

0:18:13this this story seems to now be

0:18:15evergreen that you could write the story

0:18:16goes you know every few months you could

0:18:19write the same story and as Gruber

0:18:21points out he sees a lot of people

0:18:23reading the wall mossberg thing and

0:18:25green doesn't see a lot of people

0:18:26disagree and in some respects like you

0:18:29can you can said that makes sense too

0:18:30because of course everyone's got

0:18:31complaints about their computers it's

0:18:33like you know complaining about that

0:18:34work or traffic like everything go yeah

0:18:36those are all bad things right

0:18:38that may be true but especially for

0:18:41something like Apple if it was a it was

0:18:43a non-story you would have all the

0:18:46people who to fill the traditional role

0:18:47of calling BS on people's complaining

0:18:49about stuff that Apple does like apples

0:18:51you know like anytime someone slams

0:18:54apple for a reason that seems ridiculous

0:18:56or unfair or holding apple two different

0:18:59standards than other companies or

0:19:01whatever there's plenty of press to

0:19:03fight back against that but I just I

0:19:05just don't see it for these types of

0:19:07stories where people like you know what

0:19:08that's not fair

0:19:09apple stuff is actually really because

0:19:11everybody's like apples not living up to

0:19:13its own thing that's a model mossberg so

0:19:16that group 7 articles that like it's

0:19:18apple's own standards that were holding

0:19:19them to it's not as if we are demanding

0:19:21that they be different than other

0:19:23companies because just for the hell of

0:19:25it there hold their whole value

0:19:26proposition is we are better the other

0:19:28guys we make the hardware/software

0:19:29together we make the best products in

0:19:31the world and so the fact that this can

0:19:33still be a story like I think that's the

0:19:36that the story that's the story not the

0:19:37individual articles or the details of

0:19:40them are what people are cranky about or

0:19:42what

0:19:43anecdote each person puts in their thing

0:19:44but the fact that you can just keep

0:19:45writing these stories and I feel like

0:19:47you couldn't have written them for

0:19:50example maybe like in the time you think

0:19:52of a time when Apple where where people

0:19:55would have said no that's not true i

0:19:57have a windows 95 computer has been

0:19:59nothing but problems but I got this new

0:20:01mac with I life and I'm able to do all

0:20:05these amazing things and it is just so

0:20:07much better and nicer and so much more

0:20:09understandable and I couldn't make heads

0:20:10or tails on another computer so if

0:20:11you're saying that apple doesn't know

0:20:12how to write software you're crazy

0:20:14because I guess software is great yeah

0:20:15also for his problems sometimes there

0:20:17are bugs you know that's what you would

0:20:19have gotten if you had done this during

0:20:21one of the more you know what one of the

0:20:24times in history when Apple software was

0:20:26more unimpeachably good but I think over

0:20:29the past I don't know is it five years

0:20:31or so

0:20:32not that it's like they're going

0:20:33downhill or it's like they're sliding

0:20:34off into oblivion but there's been

0:20:36enough of an annoyance

0:20:37fair enough people that you can write

0:20:39these stories and people go yeah that

0:20:41seems about right like maybe your

0:20:42individual problems aren't a big deal

0:20:44maybe I haven't had your individual

0:20:45problem maybe your overblowing it for

0:20:46the sake of like getting you know views

0:20:49and being dramatic or whatever but the

0:20:51general theme that Apple software

0:20:55qualities doesn't seem to live up to the

0:20:56standards set for yourself people i

0:20:58think people broadly agree with that and

0:21:00a nice case he points out like maybe

0:21:03apple doesn't broadly agree with that

0:21:04but like at this point you know is that

0:21:08the the Gruber had at the end like the

0:21:10fact we're still talking about a year

0:21:11later and the consensus reaction is one

0:21:13of agreement suggest that Apple probably

0:21:15does have a software problem and they

0:21:16definitely have a perception problem

0:21:17like whether there's a problem is real

0:21:19and I think even Apple has to admit even

0:21:21Apple if you disagree as a company that

0:21:23all these articles are blowing you have

0:21:25your own metrics show your software

0:21:26quality is better than ever in blah blah

0:21:28you definitely have a perception problem

0:21:29because i feel i get all of us out here

0:21:31are just reading the article gone

0:21:33yeah yeah that's pretty much the case

0:21:35it's kind of a shame yeah i mean when i

0:21:38first read one article today I was

0:21:41honestly a little bit disappointed in

0:21:43that there was that it wasn't better

0:21:45backed up because i think the examples

0:21:47he chose were not removed for the most

0:21:51part they were not like widespread set

0:21:52it seemed like they were all kinda like

0:21:54we're things that happened just to him

0:21:56however when I thought about it more and

0:21:59I started seeing everyone calls it the

0:22:00reality is like everybody has their own

0:22:04set of weird Apple bugs and stuff that

0:22:06happened to them and don't forget Walt

0:22:08Mossberg has the special concert

0:22:10treatment where if he has any weird

0:22:12problem weird things that happened to

0:22:13him

0:22:14Apple people parachute out of the sky

0:22:15and helping many bugs problems that does

0:22:17not happen for regular you go to the

0:22:19apple store and buy a device and you

0:22:20have something that you can't figure out

0:22:22known from Apple calls you and has like

0:22:23the guy who wrote the software walking

0:22:25through debugging procedures right only

0:22:26Walt Mossberg gets that which is totally

0:22:28skews his perception and he has written

0:22:30in the past about hey I had some

0:22:32problems with this device but Apple help

0:22:34me out and blonde like it's great that

0:22:35you're telling us but she's like don't

0:22:37you realize that's not gonna happen for

0:22:39anybody else they're just gonna be

0:22:40stranded right and so it's like it's

0:22:43just yeah so anyway at this

0:22:45that's why I tried to like underplay

0:22:47this particular article was just like

0:22:48you know old man yells a cloud-like my

0:22:52software doesn't work sometimes it isn't

0:22:53doing it but it's like I said it's just

0:22:55one more little pebble one more little

0:22:57problem the giant pile that everyone

0:22:58just check their own little pet problems

0:22:59onto yeah and the reality is you know

0:23:02some of this eat you can look back at

0:23:05any part of apples history and you can

0:23:06say well there probably are always

0:23:08problems like some people think Oh

0:23:09everything's better in snow leopard but

0:23:11no it wasn't like you know there are

0:23:12always problems but every release and

0:23:14there's always been bugs and

0:23:15shortcomings with all their stuff

0:23:16oh you know anytime you can even put

0:23:18back in history was never perfect but i

0:23:21do think my my thesis from last year

0:23:23that blew up so badly with that that

0:23:25like it

0:23:26yes never been perfect but like the list

0:23:28of asterisks just keeps getting longer

0:23:30and longer and longer

0:23:31I think that has only continued now I

0:23:34I'm not personally having as many

0:23:36problems now as i did a year ago because

0:23:38the the whole discovery d fiasco cause a

0:23:41lot of problems for me it's but even

0:23:44that even same thing happened back then

0:23:45a lot of people say well I don't have

0:23:46that problem but I have other problems

0:23:47you know and so like everyone has

0:23:50different problems anything the reason

0:23:52why everyone has enough problems to to

0:23:55be agree with these things and they're

0:23:57the reason why I think this this is not

0:24:00just a perception of of an overall

0:24:02quality clients is a real overall

0:24:04quality decline is just there

0:24:06the world we live in now has so many

0:24:08devices so many

0:24:10e-services everything is constantly

0:24:11changing everything is in flux that it

0:24:15is harder now than it's ever been to

0:24:18maintain high quality and apples simply

0:24:21not doing it like they they are in

0:24:23maintaining high quality and it seems

0:24:25pretty clear that they can't it is it

0:24:27isn't that like they're you know evil or

0:24:29stupid it just seems like they can't

0:24:31maintain high quality you know actions

0:24:33speak louder than words I mean they they

0:24:34told me I i love the quote the great

0:24:36wall mossberg in response to my

0:24:38inquiries about this Apple said quote we

0:24:41have dedicated software teams across

0:24:42multiple platforms the effort is a

0:24:44strong there as it has ever been

0:24:47that's probably true but denied any for

0:24:48effort that doesn't really yes this I it

0:24:52this is a pet peeve of mine

0:24:53it drives me nuts whenever I hear some

0:24:55late Tim Cook excuse something we're

0:24:57saying the teams working really hard on

0:24:59that

0:25:00yeah because you know what I don't care

0:25:01how are the team is working that is your

0:25:03problem that is the team's problem that

0:25:04is not my problem that is how you talk

0:25:06to yourself and your team internally

0:25:08that is not how you talk to the public

0:25:10because the public doesn't give a crap

0:25:11how hard the team is working the public

0:25:13cares about results sometimes they care

0:25:15that like it seems like you as an apple

0:25:16don't care about this and sometimes part

0:25:18of the damage control saying no no we

0:25:19really do care like as if you can speak

0:25:21with all coming but I like I believe

0:25:22they really do care like this at

0:25:24riverside interview with phil schiller

0:25:26we talk about these issues again a whole

0:25:28year ago this is not like you know this

0:25:30keeps coming around around and I think a

0:25:32lot of things in that that interview

0:25:34like the all we have the only inside it

0:25:36happened like what the hell is actually

0:25:38on Apple but the image i have my head of

0:25:40what's going on is explained by the the

0:25:42the venues that I think they're doing

0:25:43badly in one we talked about at length

0:25:45is the whole cloud services thing which

0:25:47has always been weak at that more things

0:25:49are cloud service based and so if

0:25:50they're bad cloud services the bad news

0:25:52spreads more so let's set that aside for

0:25:53a second

0:25:54the other thing that the thread that uh

0:25:56both groan walmart were talking about in

0:25:58this round and not so much what you're

0:26:00talking about last year is not really

0:26:02like the OS or like something wrong with

0:26:07the software in the sense that that uh

0:26:10get bugs and stuff like that just like

0:26:13application design like your application

0:26:15and they don't seem to be as good as it

0:26:19used to be there not a simple than I was

0:26:20understandable they do weird things

0:26:21groups thing was that

0:26:23like photos told him 25 photos going to

0:26:25be uploaded but he couldn't figure out

0:26:26how to tell which 5 photos like it

0:26:30application design decisions and the

0:26:31reason i think this goes back to

0:26:33official entry the reason I think Apple

0:26:34probably is less inclined to agree with

0:26:36this is that they the metrics they've

0:26:38chosen to seems to me the metrics

0:26:40they've chosen to put on their software

0:26:43references one they don't have a lot of

0:26:45good metrics on how well things interact

0:26:46with the cloud because obviously it

0:26:47works and test and it works when we

0:26:48connect to our test server and it works

0:26:50man blah blah but then it doesn't work

0:26:51on people out in the field or well

0:26:53internet demons we don't know what's

0:26:55going on right but it seems to me that

0:26:59Apple has really concentrated hear this

0:27:01from Apple engineers on like it is a

0:27:03crasher of something that crashes the

0:27:04application that needs to get fixed and

0:27:06i think apple software with the past few

0:27:08years has crashed way less than has been

0:27:10the best I can't remember the last time

0:27:12i had like an apple you know application

0:27:15or any other iOS on the mac like up a

0:27:18crash at all let alone a repeatable

0:27:19crash like every time I do this the

0:27:20whole app crashes like I really think

0:27:22they have really reduced crackers but

0:27:24you think that's great isn't it great

0:27:25that they reduce crashes right but maybe

0:27:28concentrating that has taken their eye

0:27:30off of the other balls which is one

0:27:32application design which I want to talk

0:27:34about a little bit more later have the

0:27:35item in the show notes about photos

0:27:37right about about like how you make the

0:27:39application and to cloud services which

0:27:41doesn't show up as a crash just of this

0:27:42data doesn't sink and as cloud affects

0:27:45every single application we have that

0:27:46becomes maddening so what Marco you talk

0:27:48about the function hi grandma stuff like

0:27:49that you know that the naming service

0:27:51just plain doesn't work and that's not

0:27:53really a crasher either you have a demon

0:27:55was crashing behind-the-scenes you

0:27:56wouldn't see it was just stuff doesn't

0:27:57work but I I really feel like apple's OS

0:28:01and their applications have whale fewer

0:28:03crashes and they did back in like an I

0:28:05keep going like the leopard a stuffing

0:28:06everything to crash all the time as I go

0:28:08you know everything the classic mac OS

0:28:10today is going back father like that

0:28:12they've made such progress that they

0:28:14must feel really good about themselves

0:28:15internally and their metrics must be all

0:28:16looking up but they don't realize that

0:28:17crap this point doesn't work to perform

0:28:19the desired function either because the

0:28:20app is designed wrong or because it's

0:28:23trying to connect some cloud service in

0:28:24doing the wrong thing and people just

0:28:25have no recourse and stare at the screen

0:28:27and help their note will appear it is it

0:28:29was very clear to me last year I I kept

0:28:32hearing from from people here and there

0:28:34Secondhand

0:28:35you know that i keep hearing that like

0:28:37internally Apple was caught by surprise

0:28:39that article was getting traction

0:28:42because they thought everything was fine

0:28:44because by their metrics everything was

0:28:47better than ever been and you know it

0:28:50that's great if if your metrics cover

0:28:53everything but nobody's mattress cover

0:28:54everything that's impossible and and so

0:28:56eat in reality you optimize for the

0:28:59metrics you know and the AIC Apple doing

0:29:01this a lot recently I don't know if

0:29:03that's a tip thing or that started

0:29:05before you know before 10 was in charge

0:29:06but it seems like apples really heavily

0:29:08it you know into data-driven

0:29:10decision-making now and and i think

0:29:12there's so many flaws with that and this

0:29:15number one starts with like what is the

0:29:17data you're basing decisions on and is

0:29:19it is that telling the whole story is

0:29:20that accurate being gamed you know

0:29:23things like that it as these problems

0:29:24are very challenging any kind of

0:29:25organization that tries to measure

0:29:27anything and I think we're just seeing

0:29:29the the the ways that falls down you

0:29:32know and and one of the ways that falls

0:29:33on is like if they're measuring quality

0:29:35by number of crashes well there's a lot

0:29:38of bugs that don't cause crashes and it

0:29:41doesn't seem like we're reducing those

0:29:43and in fact we seem to be increasing

0:29:45them and I just as you mentioned with

0:29:47services like that so many of the bugs

0:29:50that I see now you know that discovery

0:29:52Diaz is fixed as far as i know most of

0:29:55the bugs I see now are with our

0:29:57interactions with Apple services on in

0:30:00some way you know whether it's the apple

0:30:02TV trying to play media from itunes and

0:30:05failing for god knows why or showing a

0:30:07bunch of your password dialogues on the

0:30:09phone for each store purchases or

0:30:10anything weird stuff like that it seems

0:30:13like it's the interaction with the

0:30:14services that is that has fallen down so

0:30:16badly not and we will we will definitely

0:30:19talk about design flaws because that's

0:30:21that's a separate category but the

0:30:22actual like failures and bugs so often

0:30:25our service related that people actually

0:30:26hitting here that that I I don't think

0:30:30apple is measuring the right things if

0:30:32if they don't think there's a problem

0:30:34then their metrics are problem and like

0:30:37the seat of the pants thing like the way

0:30:39that we would imagine in the fantasy

0:30:40scenarios like how does apple have such

0:30:42great quality well it's because Steve

0:30:44Jobs uses the products and if anything

0:30:46goes wrong for him

0:30:47comes back and yells at people and they

0:30:49fix it right that's the silly fairy tale

0:30:51of how quality was maintained back into

0:30:52Steve Jobs days but the reason that

0:30:54fairytale works for us is because we can

0:30:56picture in our mind like this thing

0:30:59everyone ask ourselves like don't these

0:31:00guys that Apple actually use their

0:31:01products again I got up to go back to

0:31:03contact syncing which is you would think

0:31:06the simplest possible thing very small

0:31:08very bounded data set not complicated

0:31:11data it's basically all text right and

0:31:14it just want to have the same contact

0:31:16you want to enter contact on your phone

0:31:17have a shop on your mac and enter

0:31:19content in your mac and show up on your

0:31:20phone you just want them to be in sync

0:31:21with each other like it maybe you have

0:31:23an iPad admit but it just it just seems

0:31:25like it should be a problem that is so

0:31:26incredibly boring and licked that just

0:31:28works every time and yet pretty much

0:31:30once every 1.5 years my wife comes to me

0:31:33and says I entered some contact here and

0:31:35it's not showing up there and then i

0:31:36have to do a bunch of rain dances to

0:31:38make that work and I'm like seriously

0:31:40i'm doing this again this is happening

0:31:42again it's contact something like you

0:31:44think taught doesn't Tim Cook have

0:31:46contacts in his phone doesn't he like

0:31:49when he's on his phone

0:31:50enter someone's contact information and

0:31:52then come back and go on his iPad at

0:31:54work and be pissed that contact

0:31:57information isn't there like that's not

0:31:59a crasher but that should show up as hey

0:32:01contacts doesn't work to for the job

0:32:05that it's supposed to do and then of

0:32:07course he has no recourse because you

0:32:08just sit there you stare at like maybe

0:32:10the contact will show up eventually

0:32:11should I try signing out of iCloud and

0:32:14deleting all my local data on the device

0:32:16but what should I just be no first you

0:32:18gotta do all the stuff of like backing

0:32:20up all your cart like I've done this so

0:32:22many times I know all the steps there's

0:32:23no way in hell regular persons gonna do

0:32:25all these things that you just you just

0:32:26sit there and you stare at it and that

0:32:28stuff like that with services but how do

0:32:30you put a metric on that the only metric

0:32:32is Steve Jobs tried to enter contact and

0:32:34got mad and came and yelled to people

0:32:35like I don't know how you like cloud

0:32:39services company you need to measure

0:32:40that and I need to get good at measuring

0:32:41that but apple doesn't seem to like it

0:32:43when problems like that happened for a

0:32:45for a problem domain that I think should

0:32:49have been solved like decades ago it

0:32:52just it makes me lose faith in

0:32:53everything else if i can get contacts

0:32:55right let's forget about the complicated

0:32:57stuff that just

0:32:58they just spend the next five years

0:33:01saying contacts will always work like I

0:33:03don't even talk about like little things

0:33:05complicated scenarios simultaneous use

0:33:07I'm just saying like you enter it on

0:33:09your phone you come back five hours

0:33:10later you look on your mac and it's not

0:33:12there and you don't know why you wait

0:33:13two days and it still doesn't show up

0:33:15and you just scratching your head and

0:33:17that makes me want to just scream

0:33:19you know it's funny because my contacts

0:33:22saying to my knowledge has always worked

0:33:24perfectly

0:33:25I never run into the iMessage problems

0:33:27that so many people run into however

0:33:30earlier today I was trying to airplay

0:33:33something to our brand new Apple TV and

0:33:36I cannot think of a device in the house

0:33:39that isn't on the latest and greatest

0:33:42version of iOS or 40 s 10 and i go to

0:33:46airplay to my apple TV and I see family

0:33:48room space / n for print

0:33:50its back you know the house has been

0:33:55infected

0:33:56clearly the only option is to burn it

0:33:57down and started you know did the

0:34:00airplay work though that is the real

0:34:01quick yeah it did

0:34:02well then consider yourself lucky yeah

0:34:04exactly I don't know it's I feel like

0:34:08what you guys have said is is my

0:34:11experience as well like it used to be

0:34:13that I would have almost no glitches or

0:34:16random errors or issues that would

0:34:19happen from time to time but very rarely

0:34:21and i feel like and i don't have a list

0:34:24in front of me or anything like that and

0:34:25maybe I'm just allowing myself to be

0:34:27influenced by what you know the press is

0:34:29saying but I really didn't really do

0:34:31feel like I'm seeing a lot more small

0:34:34issues these days and sometimes big

0:34:37issues like the imac the first time Mac

0:34:39I just seen these issues from time to

0:34:41time that I never used to see before and

0:34:43you know area and my parents are coming

0:34:46to me and saying oh this isn't working

0:34:48right what can I do and my answer has

0:34:51been a very said shrug a lot more often

0:34:54lately than it ever was in the past

0:34:56because because what can you do like

0:34:59that's that's the thing with these with

0:35:01these signatures and at to bring up

0:35:02another had recently on a podcast i

0:35:03think was the talk show remember that

0:35:05song was talking like oh i just use the

0:35:06Apple bundle notes app which is improved

0:35:08tremendously in capability you know like

0:35:10and all the drawings know

0:35:11sap and you can do like rich text and

0:35:13pictures and all the stuff and it

0:35:14doesn't use imap is a storage back and

0:35:16it's like a modern full-fledged notes

0:35:17application so I'm using it so much more

0:35:19I practically I practically use it as

0:35:21they were saying I practically use it as

0:35:22a like as a replacement for like paste

0:35:24potter like those copy and paste things

0:35:25where you will essentially copy

0:35:27something on your phone you want to be

0:35:28able to see to paste it on your mac so

0:35:30just entering the notes and then you

0:35:33know put down the phone half a second

0:35:34later launched notes on their mac and

0:35:36they know they just put on the phone is

0:35:37on their mac and they're all amazed at

0:35:38how fast it sinks and that's success

0:35:41story that's the way it should be for

0:35:42all these things you say it's not on the

0:35:43data I just tasted like a URL for

0:35:45instance and notes on my phone and then

0:35:47i'm going to open notes on my mac and

0:35:49that you are all be sitting there

0:35:50well i also have a notes document in the

0:35:51Apple official notice application which

0:35:53one do you use this is just a bunch of

0:35:54URLs that I frequently tweeted people

0:35:56because they'll ask like hey where's

0:35:57cases blog post on all the toasters you

0:35:59reviewed or something and I don't have

0:36:00to find the Euro against I go to the

0:36:01notes thing and added that URL note I'd

0:36:05remember a couple weeks ago ahead of it

0:36:06and then several days later I went to my

0:36:09mac and you know someone someone asked a

0:36:11question about something was going to

0:36:12reply with the URL and I open notes on

0:36:13my mac and the euros no it wasn't there

0:36:15and so I picked up my phone on my desk

0:36:17where I had added the notes like several

0:36:19days earlier and look at it on my phone

0:36:21because you're almost there like did I

0:36:23add it to the local only one because

0:36:25they notice the cloud and local ones

0:36:26nope it's in the cloud 1i put the phone

0:36:28down and look back at the notes

0:36:30application the mac and i went to the

0:36:31iCloud system preferences yeah notes is

0:36:33checked you know and it's sinking or

0:36:35whatever and I quick notes and I forgot

0:36:38about it the next day I came back again

0:36:39launch notes to get URL the URL note

0:36:42wasn't there

0:36:43there's no like refresh button to click

0:36:45there's nothing to be done except for I

0:36:47could have signed out to iCloud or

0:36:48unchecked and recheck the notes thing or

0:36:50whatever but I'm like what does a

0:36:52regular person do in this scenario and I

0:36:55thought about something like Dropbox

0:36:56where when i launched dropbox on my mac

0:36:59a bunch of little spinners are on a

0:37:01bunch of little badge appear on icons

0:37:03and at a certain point it's think like I

0:37:05know when I launch it sinks everything

0:37:06in my dropbox when a little bad just

0:37:08gone from the the Dropbox icon I on your

0:37:10bar i have some faith based on years of

0:37:12experience the dropbox is satisfied that

0:37:15is successfully sync everything to my

0:37:16computer right to quit dropbox and

0:37:19relaunch it

0:37:19I know that I'm launching would say I

0:37:21better make sure everything in the

0:37:22dropbox is up-to-date and then we'll

0:37:23show a little spinner and then

0:37:24will go away and you with notes on my

0:37:26Mac when i launched it if the note i

0:37:28expect to be there isn't there by Casey

0:37:30said I don't shrug my shoulders you know

0:37:32and like and so I just quit that quick

0:37:35notes and then I came back a couple days

0:37:36later and Washington and my euro note

0:37:38was there like that's it that's not what

0:37:41that's not a six it wasn't because no

0:37:42crashes apples metrics muscle great on

0:37:44that right but it

0:37:46what what's happening why like I don't

0:37:49think yeah it's madness and especially

0:37:52for something you hear other people you

0:37:54know saying great things about like when

0:37:56it works just like this is awesome

0:37:58because you're excited the same way the

0:37:59people except i want to be boring like

0:38:01Dropbox where maybe it's not the most

0:38:02efficient and fanciest thing in the

0:38:04world but over years of use you know and

0:38:06dropbox s squared corners where it saves

0:38:08you're conflicted copy with this weird

0:38:09parenthetical name and it can get

0:38:11confusing and complicated scenarios all

0:38:13i wanted the easy scenarios to be so

0:38:15boring that I never think about them

0:38:17I don't launch dropbox with trepidation

0:38:19wondering if the data that I expect to

0:38:21be there will be there even when I run

0:38:23out of my quota or whatever it puts a

0:38:25little red badge icon and all i have to

0:38:27do is free up a little bit of space and

0:38:30it notices that afraid of space and

0:38:31every sinks things like it should just

0:38:34be boring right it shouldn't be this

0:38:36mysterious roll of the dice and then

0:38:38when it does work you have no idea why

0:38:40it started working this little guy

0:38:41didn't even try to debug this entry

0:38:42changes i think i went like a week a

0:38:44week and a half with that that one note

0:38:46that i added on my phone not appear on

0:38:48my mac and eventually it appeared and I

0:38:50have no idea why and so that's why i

0:38:52like you know like Casey one of my

0:38:53relatives ask me questions like I'll

0:38:56take it to the apple genius like I don't

0:38:57want to do the rain dance for them

0:38:58there's no obvious solution they're not

0:39:00doing anything wrong as users it's just

0:39:01it's just the constant source of

0:39:04frustration for things that should be

0:39:05boring at this point and I i give Apple

0:39:07total pass at the edge of the envelope

0:39:08we're pushing on looking complicated

0:39:10things I give them passing like Siri

0:39:12that's really hard to do natural

0:39:14language like just you know make easy

0:39:17things easy to make hard things possible

0:39:19to throw out more you know pearl

0:39:20catchphrases right easy things are not

0:39:23easy

0:39:24a lot of the time even when are things

0:39:26are possible seems to be no connection

0:39:28between them and my favorite persistent

0:39:31bug that was around for a long time and

0:39:34then resolved itself and is now come

0:39:35back rearing its ugly head

0:39:37crippling my ability to respond quickly

0:39:40and easily with emoji is the keyboard

0:39:43text replacement that's built into the

0:39:45system that's all sing to the iCloud as

0:39:46far as I'm aware so this is in if you're

0:39:48on the mac system preferences keyboard

0:39:51and then the text tab i use these to

0:39:53quickly type emoji that i use constantly

0:39:56and when I got the new imac none of them

0:39:58synced there's still as far as i can

0:40:00tell syncing between my iOS devices they

0:40:03used to sync between my iOS devices and

0:40:05my mac but now they're not syncing with

0:40:08my mac and i have no course of action to

0:40:11diagnose i have no way to figure it out

0:40:13I there's nothing I can do to fix this

0:40:15I just hope ya all you've got the other

0:40:17rain dances because you know what the

0:40:19rain dances are no sign of iCloud

0:40:21disable that sinking delete and recreate

0:40:23your account like all these things

0:40:24you're trying to basically kick the

0:40:26thing into gear to say go do that thing

0:40:28that you think you need to do with you

0:40:30synchronize data because you have a

0:40:32sneaking suspicion that it thinks it's

0:40:34synchronized but you know it's not as

0:40:35you can see your emotion shortcuts but

0:40:37it thinks it's done you think that this

0:40:38thinks there's nothing to do

0:40:40yep that's exactly right but also like

0:40:42that the rain dances that that you know

0:40:45like you know Johnny's like you know you

0:40:46said you send people to the genius like

0:40:47the Jesus can't do anything really are

0:40:50but I want them to walk through

0:40:52yeah I want them to walk through the

0:40:53steps I don't want to be the one walking

0:40:54through right and those steps are

0:40:56horrible like if now if anything

0:40:58involved either like restoring your

0:41:00phone or even like standing in and out

0:41:03of iCloud that it with modern computers

0:41:06and modern devices if you bought into

0:41:08Apple ecosystem if you use photos if you

0:41:10use music signing out of iCloud is an

0:41:14incredibly destructive action you should

0:41:16never ever ever have to do that unless

0:41:19you're like selling a computer like the

0:41:22inside of my clan before the whole thing

0:41:23signing out of an iCloud on a modern Mac

0:41:26if you have stuff in in photos music and

0:41:28everything and you using all the second

0:41:29everything that is risky it is

0:41:32complicated it is time consuming it can

0:41:35possibly waste a ton of bandwidth you

0:41:36might lose data if you don't do it right

0:41:38they don't necessarily work

0:41:40yes it and all those the sad part is

0:41:42unfortunately how often it does actually

0:41:43solve the problem but although when it

0:41:45does solve that I was feeling so i'll

0:41:47see you guys here

0:41:48in a month when it doesn't work again

0:41:50because it's not like you actually solve

0:41:51the problem you just restarted the

0:41:54counter and when things will go awry

0:41:55looks like and so it to me like it if

0:41:58anybody at apple is considering a

0:42:00success when you can solve the problem

0:42:02by standing outside of McKinley no that

0:42:03is not a success that that is a that is

0:42:05like you you saved your butt on that

0:42:08particular instance of that bug by

0:42:10putting people through a really really

0:42:11invasive process but that should not be

0:42:15standard operating procedure

0:42:17you should not have people not only

0:42:20having to do this you having to sign up

0:42:22senator michael and delete all the crap

0:42:24and reciting back in and put out getting

0:42:25down tree down other crap or have to

0:42:28restore your phone which is even worse

0:42:30than all that like you shouldn't have

0:42:32people doing this on a routine basis to

0:42:35solve seemingly random and some but

0:42:37frequent problems because a that's

0:42:40really destructive now and be once

0:42:42people get into that habit it's like

0:42:44putting all the apps in the app switcher

0:42:45ones that habit years from now people

0:42:48are going to still be doing this thing

0:42:50that's going to solve all their problems

0:42:51that like that's gonna be like what-what

0:42:53annoying power users tell their

0:42:55relatives are you you've got to restore

0:42:57your phone oh you gotta sign and send

0:42:58out of my clothes I can like that causes

0:43:00damage for years to come in in people's

0:43:03superstitions way beyond you stop need

0:43:04it will be a time when you stop needing

0:43:06these horrible solutions so it really is

0:43:09a long-term damage being done here in so

0:43:12many ways you know it with the quality

0:43:14issues and and with the remedies and

0:43:16everything I I just get the feeling and

0:43:18i hope i'm wrong i hope this is to put

0:43:20on a good face because they don't really

0:43:21share a lot but I just get the feeling

0:43:23that Apple is either oblivious or in

0:43:27denial to these problems and also that

0:43:30their defensive they're very that what I

0:43:32hear from Apple people they're usually

0:43:33very defensive about how well they're

0:43:36doing and they think they're doing a lot

0:43:37better than I think they're doing

0:43:39maybe I'm just build these lucky person

0:43:41in the world but it sounds like

0:43:42everybody has these stories about random

0:43:45stuff that just doesn't work right for

0:43:46them or has failed for them or or has

0:43:48has done bad things like this is a big

0:43:52problem and I i won't i won't be the you

0:43:55know the I won't have my best and say

0:43:57well either it's real or there's a

0:43:59perception problem

0:44:00no it's a real problem like this is a

0:44:02this is obviously like this is way too

0:44:04big and widespread to be just a

0:44:06perception problem I i heard earlier i

0:44:09write a blog post forget I'm sorry

0:44:10forget where it was but somebody was

0:44:12saying like you know modern microsoft

0:44:13stuff is no better for that it's a huge

0:44:15mess with them to or like you can look

0:44:17at other makers you can look at

0:44:18Microsoft Google you know you can you

0:44:21can say oh well everybody has problems

0:44:22that is also not a defense like yeah

0:44:25everybody has problems you know what

0:44:27everybody else makes crappy pcs doesn't

0:44:29mean the mat can be crappy you know if

0:44:31that's not how Apple works that's not

0:44:32why he was use apple stuff so you like

0:44:35that that's not good enough and there

0:44:37are examples of things that are better

0:44:39like it's not like this I know nobody is

0:44:41better

0:44:41that's not true I just named on dropbox

0:44:43dropbox is better at singing files

0:44:44everything right you know it's like it

0:44:46seems like apple fruit from what they

0:44:49project the outside world again whether

0:44:52this reflects their internal thing or

0:44:53not I don't know but what they protect

0:44:55the outside world is everything's fine

0:44:58we're working really hard on it and

0:45:00everything's fine

0:45:01like that's the business like that is

0:45:03what we hear from apple and the reality

0:45:05is that everything is not fine and i I

0:45:07just I really really hope that they see

0:45:09that because all I hear from them

0:45:11usually is defensive pneus our second

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0:47:56throw in a couple of Casper tidbits i

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0:48:03assuming uh the sheets and a pillow one

0:48:05yeah the sheets in the pillow and I'm

0:48:06assuming there's going to be some had

0:48:07read in the future where it's be like oh

0:48:09let me tell you about the Casper he's in

0:48:10the pillow but I've already got the

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0:48:16by this pill like I read all little

0:48:17piece little piece of paper that comes

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0:48:20like

0:48:21yeah whatever some super picky about

0:48:22pillows and I was in the market for you

0:48:25yeah i was very impressed by this pill

0:48:28like the stuff they put in a little card

0:48:30like we specially designed it to be

0:48:32supportive and you can sleep in any

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0:48:37tell you this is a hell of a pillow will

0:48:39probably talk about it in some future

0:48:40and read i'm thinking of ordering a

0:48:42second one just like this one wears out

0:48:44if Casper like doesn't make this pillow

0:48:46anymore i have a backup he got back a

0:48:48pillow i do you have to i've done this i

0:48:51made a mistake before with my stupid

0:48:52slippers and I'm wearing now I didn't

0:48:53buy to parents without knocking of them

0:48:55again you know two is one one is none as

0:48:58exactly so yeah maybe by three and i

0:49:01have a closet with two pairs of shoes in

0:49:02it that are the replacements with their

0:49:04parents their everyday because in case

0:49:06doc martens not make stuff making them

0:49:07you know you joke but uh the sketcher

0:49:10shoes that matters and he loves to make

0:49:12fun of me for they are not making them

0:49:14anymore probably because matt called in

0:49:16a favor so I wouldn't wear them anymore

0:49:17and I had one backup pair but now i'm

0:49:20out of backup players and I know what

0:49:21I'm gonna do

0:49:22it's terrible clothing is the worst it

0:49:24is you guys alluded to app design and

0:49:26you had some thoughts about that let me

0:49:29let me prime the pump a little bit and

0:49:31ask what the crap is the point in photos

0:49:35because i'm not i added all of my

0:49:39pictures to photos which I hadn't used

0:49:42in at least a couple years if not more

0:49:44than that and outside of much easier

0:49:48access to shared photo streams which

0:49:49actually i should point out very quickly

0:49:51work flawlessly for me and i have 0

0:49:54complaints about them

0:49:55what is photos really doing for me like

0:49:59they're there doesn't appear to be a way

0:50:02to look at pictures by location there's

0:50:05the faces thing which i never really

0:50:06trust

0:50:07I've got photostream access to be okay

0:50:11yay but you know and i can see all my

0:50:13selfies that I take all the time I guess

0:50:15so I what is the point photos what is it

0:50:18doing for you that makes it worthwhile

0:50:22and then you can perhaps spring from

0:50:25that too wise photos piece crap i think

0:50:27photos is a great starting point because

0:50:29I can answer your questions in to buy at

0:50:32the same time talking about the app

0:50:33design issues these days

0:50:34are both related to photos I'm i guess

0:50:36i'll talk about this but my specific

0:50:37formulas in future thing but just

0:50:39addressing you're going to like what

0:50:40what is what am I supposed to be using

0:50:42photos for this is an app design

0:50:44philosophy that really is kind of

0:50:46separate from the like do things work is

0:50:49my data syncing you know measuring

0:50:51crashing metrics that of something else

0:50:53but it's kind of related in a lot of the

0:50:55time people are complaining about apple

0:50:57software quality sometimes they're

0:50:58complaining about things don't work

0:50:59sometimes they're complaining about

0:51:00cloud stuff but sometimes they're

0:51:02complaining like even when everything is

0:51:03working exactly as it's supposed to be

0:51:04as it appears to be for you and photos

0:51:06people still don't feel the applications

0:51:09are as useful or as interesting or as

0:51:13fun or like they're not giving them

0:51:14enough value and I i trace a lot of that

0:51:17back to the design philosophy that

0:51:19started many years ago on the mac

0:51:21specifically i mean i guess you could

0:51:22talk about iOS look but on the mac i

0:51:24really feel it where someone somewhere i

0:51:27can say with Johnny I but it is in

0:51:29keeping with his yeah its hardware those

0:51:31but who knows decided that I complexity

0:51:35is the is the enemy and software design

0:51:37and that's basically true like a lot of

0:51:39apples great software designs have been

0:51:41like you know let's simplify this

0:51:42application lets you know Steve Jobs

0:51:45always think I mean I just have one

0:51:46window that like I just dragging on to

0:51:48it makes me a DVD like I just want one

0:51:50window

0:51:51I don't want a million buttons i don't

0:51:52want a million pallets and toolbars and

0:51:54and all those stuff and remember like

0:51:56those old pictures of like Microsoft

0:51:58Word what version was it on the pc with

0:52:00it went up office 95 the one more like

0:52:03you can if you put every tool bar and

0:52:06word out on a 640 by 480 screen you have

0:52:09like one line of text left where you

0:52:10where you can type stuff in like that

0:52:12was you know the end apples reacting

0:52:14against that to simplify right but it

0:52:18really kicked into high gear and maybe

0:52:20around a lion or something where they

0:52:22took applications but even back when

0:52:23it's just I photo by photo which had

0:52:25been you know they've been a rating on

0:52:27it they were making new versions of i've

0:52:28of iphoto then adding features and and

0:52:31doing all sorts of stuff and someone

0:52:32said you don't we got too much crap and

0:52:34i thought this too many toolbar buttons

0:52:35this too many like you know options the

0:52:38whole customize toolbar thing and then

0:52:40we have buttons on the bottom and we

0:52:41have a sidebar and those regions in the

0:52:43sidebar and groups and subgroups and we

0:52:45have a

0:52:45a floating panel for keywords and it's

0:52:47just too much stuff we need to clear all

0:52:49this crap out of iphoto again this is

0:52:51before photos and so they they went

0:52:53through and they like this big top bar

0:52:55and photos get rid of pretty much all

0:52:56those buttons the bottom bar get rid of

0:52:58the bottom bar entire the sidebar what

0:52:59can remove from their floating palettes

0:53:01how many of those going to get rid of

0:53:02what things do we not need in the menu

0:53:04command options for showing the keywords

0:53:06underneath photos nobody uses exit for

0:53:07Syracuse to get rid of that feature

0:53:08never bring it back just removing

0:53:11removing and simplifying and that

0:53:12instinct of simplifying i think is

0:53:15admirable and the correct one but you

0:53:18know as whatever that I forget it was

0:53:20that designer whose name I can't

0:53:21remember it's like everything everything

0:53:23should be as simple as possible but no

0:53:24simpler they think that cross that line

0:53:27and what has led to like you know going

0:53:29through iphoto and then go into photos

0:53:30photos even more like remove everything

0:53:33don't have any buttons or widgets or

0:53:37things like have to have just like the

0:53:38minimum number of things you can

0:53:39possibly see on the screen as it as its

0:53:41visual clutter is the number-one enemy

0:53:44visual clutter isn't enemy and

0:53:45conceptual cluttering complexity those

0:53:47are enemies but at a certain point you

0:53:49have someone like Casey was like I

0:53:50launch photos and it looks like an

0:53:52unadorned window with a bunch of my

0:53:54photos in and I'm like what does this do

0:53:56for me what can I do like the the silly

0:54:00field they used to have the head like

0:54:02the star ratings in an iphoto you would

0:54:04look at that and if you're familiar with

0:54:05like i do and you're like oh what was

0:54:07this dude's got these little empty white

0:54:08stars and as you click on them you can

0:54:10click on one two or three and you would

0:54:11see the contents of the window get

0:54:12filter like oh and i click this thing up

0:54:14it's like a dedicated field for quickly

0:54:16filtering by star rating right that's

0:54:18maybe like a UI too far but at least you

0:54:20can very quickly so that's the way i can

0:54:22do things and then you would lead from

0:54:23there to the little menu that would pop

0:54:25up from the bottom bar that would let

0:54:26you do more sophisticated filtering on

0:54:28the view so you can view by location and

0:54:30stuff like that all of these things that

0:54:33used to have toolbar buttons that had

0:54:35been removed entirely from the

0:54:36application or hidden away under some

0:54:39other little button or menu item it's

0:54:42like what do you think we want to do

0:54:43with the application do we just want to

0:54:45go there and see our pictures and scroll

0:54:46through them then maybe photos as a good

0:54:48application but if the application is

0:54:49capable of doing anything else say i

0:54:51want to organize my photos i want to

0:54:53sort through them into piles and and

0:54:56make little albums maybe I'm going to

0:54:57make a calendar at snapfish and I want

0:54:59to find all the good photos of the kids

0:55:00for the past year group by season and I

0:55:02want to look like you know or I want to

0:55:04edit my photos are all the editing tools

0:55:07hidden behind a sidebar in a mode that

0:55:08like you're not visible or whatever and

0:55:11it's all the more going when I doing a

0:55:12gigantic a 5k imac huge 27-inch screen

0:55:15with these massive toolbars going on the

0:55:18top and bottom and the sidebars and

0:55:20there's nothing in them there's no but

0:55:22everything is buried everything is

0:55:23buried under seven klicks that I have to

0:55:25get things like white what are you

0:55:26saving the space for that empty space in

0:55:28the toolbar is making Casey not

0:55:30understand what the hell's app is even

0:55:31good for and make me that I know what

0:55:33the app is good for have to click 7

0:55:35times to get to the features i wanted

0:55:37like it should be simple as possible but

0:55:39no simpler to serve like people want to

0:55:41feel like the application is there to

0:55:42help them do things not wipe the entire

0:55:45slate clean like how everything should

0:55:47be like whatever deferring to your

0:55:48content like their content should be the

0:55:50star but people want to do stuff with

0:55:51their content let them have buttons

0:55:53easily accessible to do the most common

0:55:55operations and yeah maybe the hallway of

0:55:57like I will give you customize the

0:55:59toolbar with million toolbar buttons and

0:56:00you can decide what you need use most

0:56:02often you got to design your own

0:56:03application basically by direct like

0:56:04maybe that's the wrong answer to but

0:56:06they have gone way too far on the mac

0:56:08specifically made applications that just

0:56:10make a mockery of the massive screen

0:56:11that I have and it makes people feel

0:56:13like makes you feel like the

0:56:15applications yes less useful and I feel

0:56:17like they are less usually that because

0:56:18people won't discover the things they

0:56:20can do because they're too hidden or

0:56:22they they'll know the things they can do

0:56:24and get frustrated like I am having to

0:56:26click through 17 different buttons every

0:56:27time they do an operation to do all the

0:56:29time I want to crop I want to you know

0:56:31straighten I want to adjust some light

0:56:33levels and I don't want to click a

0:56:34million times like this i do that over

0:56:36and over and over again every time I do

0:56:38it I have to reveal these layers of you

0:56:40I that are hidden underneath the you

0:56:41know the magic cloth don't clutter miui

0:56:44that's not cluttered that's what i want

0:56:45to use the application for I need you

0:56:47know so you need to strike that balance

0:56:48in there they're not currently doing it

0:56:50and that's why I think a lot of people

0:56:52use apples applications and just feel

0:56:54like something is missing like the

0:56:55excitement of like using the original

0:56:57ilife suite of like wow look at all

0:56:58these things i can do and yeah it's

0:57:01pretty complicated I've never done it

0:57:02before but like there's like three or

0:57:04four or five buttons and once I wonder

0:57:06what they'd do it like you do this you

0:57:07do this thing you do this you drag it

0:57:08over there

0:57:09you get a thing and you get a movie and

0:57:10you and you can play music and you can

0:57:12burn a CD like the old version of these

0:57:14applications had way more visual clutter

0:57:16on them but people could use them to

0:57:19figure out what is that good for and

0:57:21then how do i used to do that thing

0:57:22right and at some point the solution to

0:57:25everything was don't show people but

0:57:28anymore don't show people pains don't

0:57:30show people windows hide everything

0:57:31under a few things as possible and

0:57:34that's the solution i feel like that is

0:57:35that is sort of a part of the

0:57:37dissatisfaction like getting back to

0:57:38Greece complaint was like he was in

0:57:40photos and the little tiny texts like

0:57:42the only freaking thing in the entire

0:57:43gigantic bottom bar 27 inch monitors

0:57:46like little text message that tells you

0:57:48like you have X number of items in your

0:57:49library accounting for why number of

0:57:52megabytes and he had a little messages

0:57:53had like failed upload five items and

0:57:56his his reasonable question was what

0:57:59five items but one thing is so so what

0:58:02did he do tonight

0:58:02there's nothing there he clicked on the

0:58:04text the completely featureless text

0:58:06like I like iOS 7 and on is taught him

0:58:08if there's a slim chance that if you

0:58:10click on that text like just plain text

0:58:12not even like embossed really just like

0:58:14playing text me if i click on the text

0:58:15will tell me nope like five items file

0:58:18to upload and just sitting there staring

0:58:19at you like taunting you like five items

0:58:22failed to upload and you're looking

0:58:23around looking around the barn is you

0:58:25just start going to the menu bar and go

0:58:26like tell me what items failed to upload

0:58:29show a log window like no no chance is

0:58:32going to be a log 10 you crazy and like

0:58:34there's just no you know it's nothing

0:58:37that can tell him how we supposed to fix

0:58:39this problem eventually he Google's for

0:58:40which is a bad sign because someone

0:58:41using your application apple and it's

0:58:43telling you something in there recourse

0:58:44eventually go to google and found like a

0:58:45sport discussion is that oh if you make

0:58:47a smart folder and you make the Smart

0:58:49Folder filter and items that have failed

0:58:50to upload no users going to figure that

0:58:52out and then i will show you the reason

0:58:53the things to build upload and you have

0:58:54to divine the reasons they felt upload

0:58:56on your own which he eventually did

0:58:58solve this problem but like it all in

0:59:01the name of minimalism it's like I don't

0:59:03want anything on the bottom bar except

0:59:04for text should sex be clickable know it

0:59:07is to be if something goes wrong what

0:59:09should we do

0:59:10no dialogue don't pop dialogues up in

0:59:11people's faces don't have a status bar

0:59:13don't have an activity window don't put

0:59:14always confusing things and most of the

0:59:16things things are right but their

0:59:17solutions their solutions are wrong it's

0:59:19making an application that is less

0:59:21useful more frustrating

0:59:22use but i guess i guess it doesn't crash

0:59:25right yeah I i use the Photos app you

0:59:30know Casey honestly I like it a lot

0:59:32however the reason i like it a lot is I

0:59:35don't do any editing in it because doing

0:59:37any of the editing drives me nuts just

0:59:39like with John the same like so what are

0:59:41you doing with it because I'm not maybe

0:59:44I'm just having a dumb moment but it

0:59:47I don't see anything that this does for

0:59:48me I'm other than maybe making a

0:59:51gazillion albums and doing a whole lot

0:59:53of manual management that I have zero

0:59:55interest in what it does for me and who

0:59:59knows what does everyone else

0:59:59knows what does everyone else

1:00:00what does for me is a few things first

1:00:02of all it is one unified place where i

1:00:05can have all of my photos synced to be

1:00:08visible not only from main computer

1:00:10where I'm like working on them and

1:00:11storing the full res versions but also

1:00:13to be synced onto my phone my ipad if I

1:00:16ever take out of the drawer and my

1:00:18laptop when I take on vacation and so I

1:00:20have access to all my photos everywhere

1:00:22and i know there are other solutions

1:00:23that can do this as well

1:00:24however I like this one is built into

1:00:26everything and six really really really

1:00:27fast most of the time so that just

1:00:31having all your photos available

1:00:33everywhere you at least four basic

1:00:35viewing i love that is that that's

1:00:37number one number two is it's another

1:00:39backup you know it's kind of a safety

1:00:40because I i do the iCloud photo library

1:00:41of course so that's kind of another

1:00:43backup from or just my photos that in

1:00:45case everything else goes wrong you know

1:00:47maybe someday I'll need that we also do

1:00:50the sharing thing like it in between

1:00:51like between like our family and friends

1:00:53we we do often do shared photo albums

1:00:56like if we go on like if we have you

1:00:58know if we go on a trip or something or

1:00:59we have friends over we see we don't

1:01:00visit some relatives will make a shared

1:01:02photo album for that most anyone the

1:01:03link afterwards and and and so for all

1:01:07these things it does work fairly well

1:01:09the sheriff photo album thing the the UI

1:01:12for how you invite people on the mac is

1:01:14horrible but it does overall that the

1:01:17functionality does work and you love

1:01:19that little pop down things in the

1:01:20toolbar this tiny constrained window

1:01:22that you can resize that it is deadly

1:01:24like there's so many things you can do

1:01:25you can do clicks in that window that

1:01:27the entire continent disappear and since

1:01:29there's no like Save button like to just

1:01:30auto save my deletion a very person from

1:01:32this shared photo I've done that like

1:01:34three times accidentally to my entire

1:01:35family and said I have to invite you all

1:01:37again click on the thing in the email if

1:01:39you use gmail you can click on your iOS

1:01:41device forwarded to your email address

1:01:43that's an apple mail like all these

1:01:45business and instructions and and that

1:01:47you I that frustrates me so much loot

1:01:49tiny you I like you've got this huge

1:01:50screen here and I'm only inviting like

1:01:5315 people in my family this thing you've

1:01:55got students creating get I'm forced to

1:01:57to edit in a buggy view like a capsule

1:02:00of you you know i can mail which shows

1:02:02like everything in a little capsules

1:02:03whatever a buggy capsule view that

1:02:05periodically erases everything with no

1:02:07sort of save functionality you just need

1:02:09to hide the thing and assume that it is

1:02:11autosave or something at first is

1:02:13divorced so there's a lot of you I

1:02:15problems in photos and and I i agree

1:02:18John like you know like I i agree that

1:02:20overall it it does seem like apples

1:02:24apple in a similar way that if you

1:02:26wanted to make a criticism of their

1:02:28hardware designs my criticism for their

1:02:30hardware designs recently has basically

1:02:31been like basically everything just

1:02:34getting like make it as soon as possible

1:02:36and seems like they don't have a lot of

1:02:37other ideas and that is always true but

1:02:40that is kind of the overall like if you

1:02:42had to pick one dysfunction that they

1:02:43have that seems to be the most common

1:02:45one it is in that same way in the

1:02:48software design them the main way the

1:02:50software design fails or fails most

1:02:53often is that they over simplify

1:02:56something to the point where they are

1:02:58favoring the way it looks and so it can

1:03:01make great screenshots or can make great

1:03:04ads are great presentations or something

1:03:06but when you actually have to use it the

1:03:09way it looks is getting in the way the

1:03:11way it looks as making them make

1:03:13decisions that make it harder to use or

1:03:16more confusing

1:03:17there's actually a metric based support

1:03:18for that too because a lot of what

1:03:19they're doing is removing features like

1:03:21they're not just hiding but they're

1:03:22they're flat-out removing for example

1:03:24your options of how to sort the main

1:03:26view and photos are drastically reduced

1:03:29from iphoto right fewer features means

1:03:32fewer possibilities for testing means

1:03:34fewer bugs right so there is actually a

1:03:36metric based motivation visit do we need

1:03:38to have all the features how many people

1:03:40do show keywords under the forest what

1:03:41they have too many keywords in a bus our

1:03:43layout when we use this new you know iOS

1:03:45collection is porn collection of you you

1:03:47can have an unlimited number like I'm

1:03:49just you know harping on like that

1:03:50features about like the fewer features

1:03:52you have the less stuff that can go

1:03:54wrong in your application if you're

1:03:55crashes you have the future scenarios

1:03:56you have to test like this is the metric

1:03:58that is appealing internally the apple

1:04:01if your goal is

1:04:02let's write more bug free software maker

1:04:04software simpler it benefits the user a

1:04:06certain point because like most people

1:04:07don't care about that you should

1:04:08simplify that they want a more powerful

1:04:09when they should get the pro feature

1:04:11whatever it also benefits apple and that

1:04:13they are that they're making more

1:04:15reliable software by removing features

1:04:16but they just it is cooked too damn far

1:04:18and they get the Bible cases like so

1:04:20this is just a generic window frame with

1:04:22my photos in them

1:04:23what the hell is that I don't know what

1:04:24do I get yeah wasn't and like and the

1:04:27Photos app is it's everything is so

1:04:30buried in debt is this is like what i

1:04:31refer to Africa before as as the junk

1:04:34drawer philosophy of design

1:04:35we're like you still like you still have

1:04:39complex products you still have complex

1:04:41functionality having one app that stores

1:04:44every photo you've ever taken on any of

1:04:47your devices and cameras and they can do

1:04:49all these edits and all the sharing and

1:04:51all this management

1:04:52I think you can still order books from

1:04:54it right maybe it's like all all the

1:04:56features that like that are still part

1:04:59of this that they haven't killed that is

1:05:01a complex set of features it and so II

1:05:04there's going to be some minimum level

1:05:06of just required complexity in any app

1:05:09that encompasses all of those features

1:05:11and it seems like the old it seems like

1:05:13what Apple considers great design is as

1:05:16you said basically just like delete

1:05:18everything like great design is to have

1:05:20an appt with no buttons anywhere until

1:05:22you enter modes that is bad design that

1:05:25like that is great visual design for

1:05:28marketing screenshots it is horrible

1:05:30design for actual use and apple has you

1:05:34know if they've this was not like a

1:05:35posting jobs thing or Johnny I've in

1:05:37power thing this this is this started

1:05:40earlier they started way before that

1:05:41started with Stephen an earlier

1:05:43Apple has for a long time now been a

1:05:47little bit out of whack in in

1:05:48prioritizing visual appeal a little bit

1:05:51too much over usability and you can see

1:05:53this going on the back like you know

1:05:54when they get rid of visit visible

1:05:56scroll bars and windows and stuff like

1:05:57that like that like there's there's so

1:05:59many examples of this in OS 10 and in

1:06:01iOS and of course ios7 I think whenever

1:06:03we follow that direction and probably

1:06:05little too far that direction but the

1:06:08way to manage complexity in the

1:06:10interface is not to just hide it all

1:06:12behind drawers and modes like there are

1:06:16better ways to design apps and sometimes

1:06:19it will make for a screenshot that has a

1:06:22few objects in a torrent your content

1:06:24that's fine that's software this is like

1:06:28that's what this is useful for if that

1:06:30makes it useful like right now I have a

1:06:33Photos app we're editing it looks so

1:06:36pretty that I

1:06:37never do it because you have to enter

1:06:38like three different modes to continue

1:06:40to control that I want to use every time

1:06:42like even rotating a photo

1:06:45oh I took this month with my phone held

1:06:46in a weird way and i want to rotate 90

1:06:48degrees it's like four klicks tap the

1:06:50crop icon right you want to rotate that

1:06:52sounds like drop right and then I'm

1:06:54gonna make them as a rotated thing and

1:06:56you know just keep tapping into those

1:06:57rotate the right direction and don't and

1:06:59enjoy the animations between each one of

1:07:01those mode switches oh yeah like it's

1:07:03it's it just seems like all of their

1:07:06design now is way too heavily focused on

1:07:10visual and marketing appeal it doesn't

1:07:14it seems like not only have they have

1:07:15they not cared about making it harder to

1:07:18use in in favor of that but it seems

1:07:21like they don't even know how anymore to

1:07:23make it easy to use it seems like it

1:07:25seems like whatever talent just an apple

1:07:27that was able to make things easy to use

1:07:29it is no longer in power or is no longer

1:07:32there or something like it seems like

1:07:35that group is gone and this that is

1:07:38fundamentally what frustrates me so much

1:07:40because they have the ability to make

1:07:42such great stuff they have so many smart

1:07:44people who work there

1:07:45they've done it before they like they

1:07:47used to be so so much better at at

1:07:50prioritizing usability and again it was

1:07:51never perfect they were always examples

1:07:53of prioritizing looks over usability but

1:07:55I think they're worse in that way I

1:07:57think they're worse now than ever and in

1:07:59a way that looks are taking too much

1:08:02president / usability and and I do think

1:08:04that was right at Jon ESP because i

1:08:06think that the the rate at which that

1:08:09has accelerated coincides exactly with

1:08:11johnny is being made head of all

1:08:13software design not exactly because it

1:08:15was did he get change is really like 10

1:08:167 is where it started to happen on the

1:08:18Mac that's when I really saw it like

1:08:20where applications that they've been

1:08:21year-over-year and always tend to

1:08:22combine like contacts and address book

1:08:24or whatever that they just got features

1:08:27just ripped out of them and I think it

1:08:28was before Johnny I came over like and

1:08:30again the simplicity motive like it's

1:08:32it's positive like in general that's

1:08:35usually the right move a lot of the

1:08:36guidelines that we'll talk about in

1:08:38their UI guidelines are telling you to

1:08:39simplify land being up like you just

1:08:41have to know like you can go too far

1:08:43it is part it is really possible to go

1:08:45too far both with removing features

1:08:47which again is very attractive to

1:08:48everybody involved

1:08:49and with hiding features and it's just

1:08:51it's like to add a brief glimpse of your

1:08:54target market about the possible Apple

1:08:57car UI which I'm sure will be much

1:08:58smaller about the car you I than this

1:09:00but like the equivalent of my iphoto

1:09:02frustrations if the Apple car came out

1:09:03and every time you wanted to get a turn

1:09:06you would press on a touchpad to the

1:09:07turn indication function and then and

1:09:09then you press on touchpad which

1:09:10direction you want the indicator to go

1:09:12and then we reset and reset to the main

1:09:14menu each time and you're like you know

1:09:16what Apple one of the controls the use a

1:09:18lot when you're driving cars and turn

1:09:20signal it should not be too button

1:09:21presses away and the touchscreen that

1:09:23you have to glance set and so what you

1:09:25know to get you ever use photos for what

1:09:26I use it for Casey is basically what

1:09:28Marco said it's you know i do iCloud

1:09:30backup and my photos are everywhere and

1:09:31so on and so forth this is actually my

1:09:32wife's for library because she's got the

1:09:33big library and they don't understand

1:09:35how families work separate issue but

1:09:38also I do all of my editing there i

1:09:41don't really fancy editing but pretty

1:09:42much all the time I'm cropping rotating

1:09:45adjusting the lighting before I throw it

1:09:47into a shared library and also go

1:09:49through and I i do my favorite so

1:09:50basically like the photos go in there i

1:09:53have to like manually import the ones

1:09:54from my phone crap anyway and I go

1:09:57through them all and I favorite the ones

1:09:59i think are good and at that point i

1:10:01might also adjust them and then if I'm

1:10:03doing something with like I want to

1:10:05throw these into a shared stream or we

1:10:06want to make a calendar i wanna you know

1:10:08it do something with the photos i do the

1:10:12editing there and every time I always

1:10:14want to crop oh I probably want to

1:10:16rotate is a really bad holding cameras

1:10:18perpendicular to the you know parallel

1:10:23to the horizon or whatever i'm really

1:10:24crappy that anyway I always want to do

1:10:27those things and all them like nine

1:10:28klicks away it's like what is one click

1:10:30away in this application nothing is do

1:10:32it can I quickly filter the images based

1:10:33on reading nope that's not one click

1:10:34away can I do like a quick smart cities

1:10:36like nothing is one click away

1:10:37everything is like 23 clicks away and

1:10:39cropping cropping is the worst i just

1:10:41want to kill the president made his

1:10:42feature edit edit crop aspect original

1:10:46edit crop aspect original crime aspect

1:10:48original edit crop aspect of how many

1:10:50can you just remember that always wanted

1:10:53original as the default even if you make

1:10:54me click 700 times to get to that the

1:10:56fact that doesn't remember the aspect

1:10:58that I want and then you get to drag and

1:10:59they changed the way dragon works and

1:11:01photos and it

1:11:01but we're but always like what what do

1:11:04you think and i asked the same question

1:11:06is what do you think people use app for

1:11:07there are features their wise every

1:11:09single one of them very surely there's

1:11:11one is like the controller all the

1:11:12buttons of the same size show there is

1:11:14one or two features that you think are

1:11:15the most commonly used make them super

1:11:18obvious and overcast is a big honking

1:11:19freaking play button because most people

1:11:21play audio at markley put the play

1:11:23button under three menus that you had to

1:11:25go through in students straight across

1:11:26now how to play this podcast go to

1:11:28options go to play back and hit the play

1:11:31button

1:11:31no it's like a gigantic play button in

1:11:33the middle of the screen you can't miss

1:11:35it it's so frustrating

1:11:37so let's assume for a second because I

1:11:41spend almost no time editing in no time

1:11:45categorizing my photos which is true so

1:11:48let's assume for a second i want to go

1:11:49to a photo from when Marco and Tiffany

1:11:51and I were in Germany how the hell do i

1:11:54do that i guess i searched like but if I

1:11:56know the date i just have to fart around

1:11:58with the scroll bar until I know the

1:12:00entire land on the right day like it's

1:12:02just it's insane to me that there's no

1:12:05like jump to date or anything like that

1:12:07in the iphoto world I would go to the

1:12:09lower left and the right next to that

1:12:11little rating thing they would be a

1:12:12little pop-up that you click into a

1:12:14pop-up calendar widget and you can just

1:12:15click on a date and it would immediately

1:12:16felt it would immediately filter the

1:12:18main pane view to that date like because

1:12:21like you said that's a common thing how

1:12:23do i quickly go to a date

1:12:25there should be a always visible button

1:12:27that you can click the pops up a

1:12:28calendar thing lets you pick a date from

1:12:30it like if that's a common task and i

1:12:32think it is a common task and you've got

1:12:33literally two feet of grey button then

1:12:37put something there like it wasn't even

1:12:40that much it's just like a centimeter

1:12:41worth of space it was like a little

1:12:42field you can click and for the rating

1:12:44like a little like a gear menu or

1:12:46popping like it was it was even a little

1:12:49bit to hidden back then it's like what

1:12:51are you saving all the space for like

1:12:52what do you get in the end of the person

1:12:54with the most unused gray pixels wins so

1:12:56this is what I'm saying like this is

1:12:57this is bad design this like this it's

1:13:01not just that this looks prettier or

1:13:04this is a clunkier to use design is not

1:13:07about how it looks it's about how it

1:13:11works

1:13:12there's a reason why Steve Jobs said

1:13:13that everyone was quote some on it

1:13:15modern-day apple i think has forgotten

1:13:18that or or has d prioritize that too

1:13:20much

1:13:21now it is all about how it looks and we

1:13:23hope it kind of works well and there is

1:13:25no better example of this in my opinion

1:13:27then a lot of the UI on the appletv and

1:13:31we have to also include Apple music and

1:13:33a lot of this is well all right before

1:13:35before we go there which we should

1:13:36sponsor break first gonna be locked it

1:13:38but not only not only should we do that

1:13:40but I would also like to compliment

1:13:42photos because as John was talking I was

1:13:44lamenting how do i go to like you know

1:13:46our trip i did a search for nürburgring

1:13:49i did not type the UM lot on the first

1:13:52you and sure enough it came up so kudos

1:13:56to photos i still would prefer to have

1:13:59an easy way even if it's just a

1:14:00keystroke to jump to a specific date but

1:14:04i was able to type out nürburgring and

1:14:07because all of these were taken with an

1:14:09iphone and they're all geotag blah blah

1:14:10it did find it if not all of the

1:14:13pictures then darn near all the pictures

1:14:16almost immediately so a points for

1:14:19photos on that one

1:14:19well that's why they can convince

1:14:21himself that it's okay to removalist so

1:14:22they say well regular people don't want

1:14:24to deal with all these buttons it would

1:14:25be better if it was just a search field

1:14:26that everyone can use that would just do

1:14:27the right thing but we know that big

1:14:29apple still lags behind Google in

1:14:31general and the hey here's a box we can

1:14:33write random text and we'll figure out

1:14:34what you mean Google does that amazingly

1:14:35well i will does it less well but it's

1:14:37getting better at it but the bottom line

1:14:38is sometimes like if you're doing that

1:14:40quickly

1:14:41that's fine but say you were going to

1:14:43you know pick three pictures to make

1:14:45fractures of from the Nurburgring thing

1:14:47you want to make sure that you are

1:14:49seeing all the pictures you have from

1:14:50the number bring so the merely the

1:14:52search wouldn't be good be like well

1:14:53maybe someone came from someone else's

1:14:54camera and they weren't your tag you

1:14:56wanted you know date-wise when you were

1:14:57there right now you would inevitably

1:14:59eventually say you know what I just

1:15:02really want to see all the photos from

1:15:03data exit eight why

1:15:04and so you'll be forced to figure out

1:15:05how to do that in the UI and like it's

1:15:08great to the search boxes there for

1:15:09quick things like that but the next

1:15:11level down of like I just want to do a

1:15:13specific date search the job of good

1:15:15software is to make that test simple

1:15:17enough that people configuring it that

1:15:19people can figure it out like that they

1:15:21they can figure out without making like

1:15:23a smart album and using some you is that

1:15:25boolean expressions and stop there

1:15:27should be a simple friendly you

1:15:28I the regular people can figure out like

1:15:31an obvious way they would say that they

1:15:32would just learn through the language of

1:15:34using application if i want to see

1:15:36things by date range

1:15:37here's this calendar widget it pops up i

1:15:39can pick a start date and end date and

1:15:40it filters the window and that's very

1:15:42mobile and it means i can't do anything

1:15:43they also in the main viewer whatever

1:15:45but it's simple enough that people can

1:15:46use it but and it's the thing you're

1:15:48asking to do is just one step more

1:15:50complicated than let me just type random

1:15:52search and hope the application figures

1:15:53i want to do but still i think is within

1:15:56the realm of functionality that an

1:15:57application like photos should do it's

1:15:58not you know aperture or lightroom or

1:16:01it's not like a pro level application

1:16:02but regular consumers have to do these

1:16:05kinds of tasks to and the job of the

1:16:08application is to make them able to do

1:16:10them not to say regular consumers will

1:16:13never figure out how to click on a

1:16:13calendar widget

1:16:15I'm just have to let them figure out

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1:17:56once again

1:17:57Apple music and the apple TV

1:18:00oh boy you know if the apple TV makes me

1:18:02so sad it really does i mean to me

1:18:05the the apple TV is kind of a kind of

1:18:09exemplifies all the problems i've been

1:18:12talking about tonight's it really

1:18:13because i like most things with new

1:18:17appletv the remote i would say is in

1:18:19keeping with already talked about

1:18:20tonight but like I i have to admit the

1:18:23fact that the flex app on it and then

1:18:24i've been using it more and that most

1:18:26the other apps that I do play video when

1:18:27i hit the button is really giving me a

1:18:29more positive attitude towards the apple

1:18:31TV lately

1:18:31yeah i agree that the remote is little

1:18:33rough and I still one of the promoters

1:18:35ms yeah and i still think that the

1:18:38up-down left-right buttons work better

1:18:40for me than the silly like many touchpad

1:18:43but all in all I really like my appletv

1:18:46sammarco late on us what's wrong with

1:18:47the apple TV so we we should just

1:18:50briefly go over there mode you know just

1:18:51for the sake of completion of

1:18:52incompleteness obviously we've talked

1:18:54about it before but i think this remote

1:18:57is like the hockey puck mouse it like it

1:18:59is something that was designed only for

1:19:02visual appeal and such at the expense of

1:19:06usability and you know just basic

1:19:09economics that the remote is just a it's

1:19:13a design disaster that's what it is like

1:19:16it is

1:19:16I i am not going to say it's nicely

1:19:19designed because it looks nice because

1:19:21it is not nazi designed i will say it

1:19:24looks kind of nice but that does not

1:19:26mean it's well-designed and the fact

1:19:28that came out of a design division Apple

1:19:30they should they should look at that and

1:19:32and feel sorry put that out there and

1:19:34make a better one for next generation

1:19:35because that is not good design if so

1:19:39many people have trouble with this it

1:19:42isn't just me it isn't just you guys

1:19:44I don't know a single person who has an

1:19:46apple TV who has not had some kind of

1:19:50problem with that remote design whether

1:19:51it's picking it up upside-down and

1:19:53accidentally inputting the touchpad

1:19:55not knowing which way is up in the dark

1:19:57not knowing which button is which which

1:19:58button is where what the buttons

1:19:59actually do which was kind of the home

1:20:01button like that is a massive design

1:20:04failure and that is the primary input

1:20:06method for this device so that's not a

1:20:08small deal this is a big deal you know

1:20:11what let's assume for a second that the

1:20:13touchpad was ok which it isn't

1:20:15let's go with it what on God's green

1:20:17earth made them use menu for back

1:20:21because that's basically what it does is

1:20:24go back and the TV for home

1:20:28why not use the little rounded rect

1:20:30that's been on all these iOS devices up

1:20:32until touch ID became a thing

1:20:34why not use a rounded rect for the TV

1:20:36button alright directors make sense

1:20:38because the icons are a little rounded

1:20:40things like that on the phone

1:20:42you know like that's the mnemonic for

1:20:44that and menu I i give them a pass on

1:20:45menu because on every TV connected

1:20:48remote like menu basically means back

1:20:50like they're I think they're they're

1:20:51going in line with the terminology for

1:20:53menu they're going in line with the

1:20:54terminology precedent set by every other

1:20:57AV remote for the past twenty decades or

1:21:00whatever it is kind of bad that most of

1:21:02the time when you hit menu what you see

1:21:03is not a menu i know but that's but

1:21:05that's true that's true in every TV

1:21:07remote like menu always means back but

1:21:09since when does Apple pay attention to

1:21:11the consumer electronics industry

1:21:12standards for design I feel like that's

1:21:14what they're doing the the TV one the

1:21:16home one is is I mean really it should

1:21:18have been a house but apple doesn't like

1:21:19to do that right because that would make

1:21:20some sense but that would that would be

1:21:22again falling in line with the

1:21:23television thing

1:21:24the problem is but they made it looks

1:21:25like a television set and not an

1:21:28application so if anything you would

1:21:30imagine that would be the power button

1:21:32yeah i mean really the problem with the

1:21:34home button is the placement you know

1:21:35like a like right over here if she did

1:21:37this little mock-up what will finally

1:21:39get a little late again but like if you

1:21:41if you put the home button centered

1:21:42below the other buttons like in a place

1:21:44where home button iOS devices it makes a

1:21:46lot more sense all the different

1:21:47shortcuts like you know you can double

1:21:48double tapping little multitasking

1:21:50feature and kill unresponsive apps most

1:21:52people will never know that they will

1:21:53never find that if it was we're home

1:21:56buttons iOS they might get that they get

1:21:58the chances would be higher still not

1:22:00great but but but it's not a touchscreen

1:22:01like it they just need to start over

1:22:03there more like again yes realize that

1:22:05it's like a device that sits on couches

1:22:06that to education couch cushion

1:22:08is that held the tailed by entire hands

1:22:10that you know why I mean I don't want to

1:22:12harp on tivo remote but like they just

1:22:14need to start over with that but the

1:22:15worst thing about you mentioned a hockey

1:22:17puck mass I think it's worse than hockey

1:22:18puck mouse because the hot using a

1:22:19hockey best mass could be frustrating

1:22:21when like you push the mouse up and the

1:22:24the cursor would go up on an angle and

1:22:26you realize you don't have it aligned

1:22:27you do some little finger field to feel

1:22:28with the court isn't our field a little

1:22:30dent they put in later versions or

1:22:32whatever but I never felt sort of like

1:22:34timid using the hockey puck mouse I

1:22:37never felt like I need to approach it

1:22:39gingerly that's something broad will go

1:22:41wrong and yet this stupid remote i have

1:22:43to place it gingerly to make sure it's

1:22:45not on a surface will slide down into a

1:22:47crack it's so freaking small and skinny

1:22:48right I need to when I pick it up I need

1:22:51to pick it up carefully both because I

1:22:53want to make sure I got the orientation

1:22:54right which I have done a million times

1:22:56the wrong way i have not succumbed to

1:22:58put your brand on getting really close

1:22:59and because i have to be careful not to

1:23:02touch the touch-sensitive top half of

1:23:04the thing because something you know

1:23:06because that it will take my touch input

1:23:08and do something with it even if it's

1:23:10always on

1:23:11it's always hot even if the thing it

1:23:13does is non-destructive merely burning

1:23:16up like the progress bar at the bottom

1:23:18I don't want to accidentally bring the

1:23:19progress bar up if I'm just moving the

1:23:21thing out of the way to make room for

1:23:23like a snack or something i don't want

1:23:24to suddenly put a giant bar in the

1:23:26middle of the show that a bunch of

1:23:27people are watching

1:23:28even if it goes away on its own like I'm

1:23:29doing it is non-destructive but it's

1:23:31annoying and so I feel like I'm playing

1:23:33a game of operation which is an old

1:23:35board game kids can find that the older

1:23:37threatening to every time I use this

1:23:40thing I don't feel that when i touch any

1:23:42of my other remotes and you know my

1:23:44favorite on tivo remote like

1:23:46everything's fine about it like the only

1:23:47thing that you were like a date for is

1:23:48that when it became when I got a fever

1:23:51or bluetooth support now I can't blindly

1:23:53mash it it with as long as I know it's

1:23:56not putting the TV now if you master

1:23:58bluetooth remote doesn't matter it's

1:24:00pointing the TV which is a great feature

1:24:01and i love it but it does make me have

1:24:03to be slightly more careful not to just

1:24:05pick it up like a barbarian just squish

1:24:07the whole thing but I i feel i feel like

1:24:09i am on you know i'm walking on

1:24:12uh-uh I don't know what the expression

1:24:14shows there you go that's it that's what

1:24:16I'm walking on eggshells not what I'm

1:24:19trying to use that stupid little remote

1:24:20right because like it's always waiting

1:24:23for you to accidentally touch this area

1:24:25that is not a button that actually does

1:24:27things and like that is unlike every

1:24:29other remote that has ever existed and

1:24:31there's a reason for that

1:24:32so anyway you know move that I don't

1:24:34want to be too much in remote because I

1:24:35i think that we could take whole episode

1:24:37on that and most people have probably

1:24:38agreed that yeah it's not good but just

1:24:41the entire apple TV interface there are

1:24:43parts of it that works fine but the main

1:24:45content browsing interfaces which is

1:24:48kind of a big thing that you do a lot of

1:24:50this thing they likely by Top Chef we

1:24:53have bought every season of Top Chef

1:24:54from itunes in season five we're

1:24:56currently on season I believe 13 when we

1:24:59want to do is what comes out every week

1:25:01we you know we go to the top and we

1:25:04click on the top shelf because it's new

1:25:05and loads after a very long wait time

1:25:08the top chef section of the itunes store

1:25:10and I'll in the in the bottom half of

1:25:13the screen there is a horizontally

1:25:16scrolling line of episodes

1:25:19this includes every episode from every

1:25:23season we've bought so from season 5

1:25:25through season 13 every single episode

1:25:28is in that list somewhere along the way

1:25:31Apple forgot that we had watched seasons

1:25:35five through like 10 so those are all

1:25:38marked as unwatched for some reason so

1:25:41every time we open this up it look it

1:25:43opens up to the first one watched

1:25:47episode in the list which is the very

1:25:49first episode in the list of season five

1:25:51delightful we're in season 13 now there

1:25:54is no entry here that says you know

1:25:56which different season I think know the

1:25:58way you have to switch is by scrolling

1:26:01to the right through

1:26:03I don't know 70 episodes or something

1:26:05scrolling scrolling scrolling paging

1:26:08through this giant long horizontally

1:26:11scrolling list of episodes with your

1:26:13squares you know the this massive line

1:26:16of episodes from Season 5 all the way

1:26:19scrolls girls girls girls girls girls

1:26:20girls girls girls girls roll all the way

1:26:22to get the end of season 13 we actually

1:26:24are and then hit

1:26:26beyond that I don't know if there's any

1:26:28way for me to mark six seasons of a show

1:26:30as play without actually opening up

1:26:31every single one of them seem to be and

1:26:33letting it stop like I who knows it

1:26:34doesn't matter

1:26:35and of course you know we hope the

1:26:37episodes actually there when we look

1:26:39even though itunes says it was there and

1:26:41if you click more itunes it will be

1:26:42there but that is that probably stolen

1:26:44apple tv2 just mark them always viewed

1:26:46in the web interface around the mac

1:26:47version of this app

1:26:48oh yeah sure yeah thats good so so yeah

1:26:51like this right you have cooked

1:26:53I'm sure just stopped by to work

1:26:54perfectly so you know it's every part of

1:26:58this interaction it is a failure in some

1:27:01way so a why were those markets unplayed

1:27:04we watched them all we bought them all

1:27:05years ago so a something went wrong in

1:27:07the service and so at some point of

1:27:10course it's apples services its itunes

1:27:12at the itunes store of course they went

1:27:14wrong

1:27:14smoke that's problem number one problem

1:27:16number two why is this every single

1:27:19season in one giant list

1:27:21have they did was designed in a way

1:27:24where they ever tested it

1:27:26loading a show that had more than one

1:27:28season I honestly I'm asking this

1:27:29question did any of the designers at any

1:27:32point test this interface with a show

1:27:34that had you know seven seasons 10

1:27:37seasons like there are many shows like

1:27:39this even if it had one season that's

1:27:41too much to scroll horizontally yet idea

1:27:43the idea that horizontal scroll no one

1:27:44wants to scroll horizontally we learned

1:27:46s horizontal scrolling is always wrong

1:27:48like the old apple TV put this in

1:27:50hierarchical vertically scrolling list

1:27:52so every season had its own entry

1:27:54perfect right because usually like

1:27:57changing seasons is kind of a big

1:27:58navigational step you don't like

1:28:00accidentally crossover between seasons

1:28:02very often like you do that

1:28:04intentionally so like you that could be

1:28:05its own state is it its own stage entry

1:28:07you know so a there's the failure of

1:28:10like why are these episodes all markets

1:28:11on played be why are they all the same

1:28:13list see when I play one in season 13

1:28:18and then we come back a week later when

1:28:21there's a new episode in season 13 right

1:28:23after the one that we just played why

1:28:25does it start again season five every

1:28:28part of this is a failure and the reason

1:28:30why this designed this way is either a

1:28:32in competence that they didn't even test

1:28:35whether this would work with a show that

1:28:37had more than one season

1:28:39or be that it was more important for

1:28:42them to have this big glamorous like

1:28:44pretty-looking screen that has this big

1:28:47promo art in the background and it

1:28:49doesn't have the clutter or the ugliness

1:28:51of actual text that describes you're

1:28:53looking at or vertical list it's easy to

1:28:55navigate so either way this is a massive

1:28:58failure and this i'm just picking on one

1:29:00screen here but it's a pretty common

1:29:02screen you see on the appletv and this

1:29:05just to me represents so much of of the

1:29:08pattern of design failure that we keep

1:29:10seeing of apple recently and Apple music

1:29:13is very similar and I haven't I honestly

1:29:15haven't spent a ton of time without

1:29:17music because it is so bad at it and for

1:29:19me it not only has been designed for me

1:29:21actually doesn't work like I the

1:29:23whatever their local CDN node is that

1:29:26serves me very often a song most will

1:29:29just end before like it'll end

1:29:31prematurely and just go to the next song

1:29:32and I assume it's some kind of streaming

1:29:34failure but i don't know why it sucks

1:29:38that I really had that it that's

1:29:40infuriating honestly because I i would

1:29:42like to use of music i'm still paying

1:29:44for you Fredo cancel it i keep thinking

1:29:46oh maybe it'll work better i would love

1:29:48to discover new music but music just

1:29:50sucks so bad I can't do it I did it

1:29:51literally doesn't work well for me but

1:29:54also just the design of that and the

1:29:56design of the new iOS music app that

1:29:58followed from that it is so much in this

1:30:01in the same design failure pattern of

1:30:03we're gonna make it look like i don't

1:30:05know magazine like it we're going to

1:30:06make it look like this like fancy rich

1:30:09content experience but in fact it's

1:30:11really hard to both use and to figure

1:30:14out what the heck is going on where you

1:30:16are

1:30:17what's going to happen when the song

1:30:18ends but it is so hard to figure out

1:30:22anything

1:30:23this is not good design this is not how

1:30:26you design software and it is not only

1:30:29you know bad ideologically it's bad like

1:30:33an actual use like it's one thing you

1:30:35say well you know you should really

1:30:36always have white space around x like 44

1:30:39good practices this goes beyond good

1:30:41practices it is actually dysfunctional

1:30:43you know if they'd only looked at plex

1:30:46which gets this whole season thing right

1:30:48I know you're tired of hearing likes sex

1:30:50doesn't quite get ready

1:30:51there is all please Harry so but flex is

1:30:54trying to present me with like the next

1:30:55episode in the series that i want to

1:30:57watch but I never trust that is pick the

1:30:59right one so to make sure i have to go

1:31:01and have to go our way back out and then

1:31:03i have to pick all instead of just the

1:31:04browser to pick also i can see the thing

1:31:06and I click into it then I see the

1:31:07seasons listen I have to click into the

1:31:08season and then I see the episodes in a

1:31:10horizontally scrolling list and then I

1:31:12scroll over to the episode that I want

1:31:14when you're looking at an episode on the

1:31:16appletv looking at an episode and

1:31:18there's like three or four buttons on

1:31:20there on that screen one of them is go

1:31:22to season I'm saying like starting from

1:31:24the top i launched the flex that brings

1:31:26me the thing that says discover which I

1:31:28never want to see and then all and I

1:31:29have to go to this video to discover

1:31:30like in the upper left it has a thing

1:31:32but it shows like the icon of the show

1:31:33that i want to watch whatever and i

1:31:35click it

1:31:36I'm not sure it's going to resume me at

1:31:38the right time maybe I should just trust

1:31:39it like I feel like netflix there's a

1:31:40better job where it very quickly

1:31:42prevents me the thing that says you

1:31:43watch this you watch this you watch this

1:31:45you're in the middle of this or the next

1:31:46one is this where with flex that stuff's

1:31:48very complex still this horizontal

1:31:50scrolling for the episodes within a

1:31:51season at least it's a hierarchy there

1:31:53anyway like yeah that everything about

1:31:57apple TV being designed like a magazine

1:31:59and not like a thing that people use and

1:32:01that that horrible remote that's all bad

1:32:03but then the final note is that the cap

1:32:07this thing off is sort of that metal

1:32:08discussion we've had many times about a

1:32:10negativity towards Apple and you know

1:32:13complaining about things and stuff like

1:32:15that and the fact that the show is

1:32:16called hypercritical even though it's

1:32:18got one of the people from that show on

1:32:19it

1:32:19the two aspects this one is uh although

1:32:25we're complaining about a lot of things

1:32:26here are at the end of last year i

1:32:28listed photos is one of my favorite

1:32:29things that Apple had done that year and

1:32:31that's still true because the main

1:32:33functionality that photos provides

1:32:34having my photos everywhere and having

1:32:36them backed up to the cloud and stuff

1:32:37like that one that was so long and it

1:32:38actually does that job so far for me if

1:32:41it doesn't do what I have no recourse

1:32:42because i don't have to make it do what

1:32:43it's supposed to do but so far it's been

1:32:44good for me so i still give that a

1:32:46thumbs up and like I said about the

1:32:48apple TV which has all sorts of problems

1:32:49in the end video plays when i press the

1:32:52button that is a big step up from the

1:32:55previous one we should just show me

1:32:56spinners and strange error messages and

1:32:58numbers inside parentheses and make me

1:33:01sign into my itunes account stuff site

1:33:03so

1:33:04progress good progress there but the the

1:33:06broader thing I think on the negativity

1:33:08is I don't think anyone who is listening

1:33:11to this is you know complaining can set

1:33:14you listen to me complain about not

1:33:16liking it can say that this is just us

1:33:18at this point like I feel like this is a

1:33:20broader thing that you can still believe

1:33:22that it's a broader narrative about dr.

1:33:24dropping quality that is not found that

1:33:26is somehow like feeding on itself and

1:33:28then there's a manufactured thing of the

1:33:30media and of people talking to each

1:33:32other and like that again that is an

1:33:34aspect of the media and we are a small

1:33:36part of that but so much time has passed

1:33:40and so many people with so much

1:33:41experience so much diverse backgrounds

1:33:43like it's not that all the people saying

1:33:44this are like all jilted lovers who

1:33:46idealize some point in the past or Apple

1:33:49was great some of these people are

1:33:50people who are recently switched to the

1:33:51max some people have been mac users

1:33:53forever some people are not mac users at

1:33:54all just looking in from the outside

1:33:56like it's so diverse and there's so many

1:33:58different opinions about this and all of

1:34:00them are kind of concentrating on it's

1:34:01not the end of the world the company's

1:34:03not doomed

1:34:03we still like it better than everybody

1:34:05else for the most part like it's just

1:34:07it's a trend it's a thing even if you

1:34:09want to just you know it like Marco

1:34:12wasn't going to back fellas for USA

1:34:14maybe it's just a perception right but

1:34:16whatever it is there's something there

1:34:17and we are not manufacturing that thing

1:34:19and we are not like I and I feel like

1:34:23we're not blowing it out of proportion

1:34:24of like we all have a proportional idea

1:34:26of like in the grand scheme of things

1:34:27were all still using these products we

1:34:29all still like them they all are better

1:34:31than their predecessors in important

1:34:32ways but we're seeing things fall down

1:34:34in ways that we had historically

1:34:36expected Apple to do better and we can

1:34:38see obvious problems that Apple seems

1:34:40like they don't and that persistent it

1:34:41goes on and on and you know what we

1:34:43talked about not having crashes is great

1:34:45like I really do feel that over many

1:34:46years that their software has gotten

1:34:48more reliable somebody can only have one

1:34:50of the other five were saying come bring

1:34:51back the Crashers and put them into

1:34:52bonds are applications and stuff right

1:34:55it's like we're looking you know or we

1:34:59want them to keep that good stuff but

1:35:01bring back some of the old skills they

1:35:03have like Marcus whoever was designed

1:35:05with other applications are not there

1:35:06and they're not in charge they they need

1:35:08to be because you know like think it's a

1:35:12regression its small regression but it's

1:35:15a it's a trend

1:35:16it's happening and I think we are not

1:35:17the source of that trend and I think

1:35:19none of us are saying anything is dire

1:35:22as the emails we get from people who

1:35:24just can't hear can't bear to hear say

1:35:26anything bad about Apple like I don't

1:35:29when the sky is not falling we don't

1:35:31hate apple apple is not a bad company

1:35:33Apple is not doomed but this is I feel

1:35:37like this is a thing like I you know I

1:35:39is a thing and this is not a thing that

1:35:41we have manufactured Marco didn't make

1:35:43this happen by writing a blog post last

1:35:45year like they didn't start with him is

1:35:46not gonna end with him and his ongoing

1:35:48from people who have no idea who any of

1:35:51us are ya i completely agree and you

1:35:54know looking at the devices that I've

1:35:56bought over the last year or so I love

1:36:00the crap out of my ipad mini 4 I mean I

1:36:02can't off top my head think of any

1:36:04complaints i have about it this 27-inch

1:36:07imac that I had no business buying

1:36:09because I don't do desktop computers

1:36:12that's not my thing I freaking love this

1:36:14computer after you know I got my second

1:36:17one because first one didn't work but

1:36:18that's neither here nor there

1:36:20implied I i really like my success i

1:36:23can't think of any particular complaints

1:36:24i have about that i mean i would like

1:36:26things to be a little different in a

1:36:28couple of departments but I don't have

1:36:29any actual complaints and I actually

1:36:31really like my new apple TV I was

1:36:34wishy-washy on getting it and it ended

1:36:36up being a holiday gift but now that

1:36:39it's here I use that thing constantly

1:36:41and it was getting to the point that i

1:36:43almost never used our old apple TV

1:36:47yeah i'm using my ability way more than

1:36:48a development as well like that's the

1:36:50real proof like is annoying that remote

1:36:51is the old apt was getting almost no

1:36:53using now this one gets a ton more like

1:36:55the reason why the Apple TV's problems

1:36:57drive me crazy is that we use the apple

1:36:59TV every day like this is like and I i

1:37:02could go on a much longer rant about how

1:37:04much work i think the both the the

1:37:06Amazon fire TV and the roku whatever

1:37:08whatever that I got you know a year ago

1:37:11whatever

1:37:11both of those are now sitting collecting

1:37:13dust because i hate them both even more

1:37:15but you know the fact is like as you

1:37:18like this

1:37:19this drives us nuts because like we do

1:37:20use this stuff and in some cases we

1:37:23don't want the alternatives because

1:37:24their workforce in some way or they

1:37:26there you know they don't have one

1:37:27either whatever but like

1:37:29the reason why this stuff matters like

1:37:31what am I gonna do like it if mac OS

1:37:34takes another dive towards you know it

1:37:37towards a bad reliability and stuff what

1:37:39I'm going to do switch to windows like

1:37:41that's worse like that's way worse so

1:37:43like I the reason why we care so much

1:37:46better than we Harbor about this is

1:37:48because we don't want to go to

1:37:50alternatives for the alternatives are

1:37:52actually worse and so this is all we

1:37:54have

1:37:55like if Apple starts getting mediocre

1:37:58and crappy well almost everyone else in

1:38:00the industry is mediocre and crappy so

1:38:02it's not it's not like we are holding on

1:38:05to dear life because we want Apple

1:38:07specifically to be great

1:38:09it's that we want somebody to be great

1:38:11and the rest of the industry keeps

1:38:12showing over and over again for decades

1:38:14that they can mostly just manage

1:38:16mediocre like that's that's about as

1:38:17good as they can to ballistics on it and

1:38:20places where things are better like just

1:38:21go back example you mentioned dropbox

1:38:23before like I haven't used apple

1:38:24anything produced by apple for email and

1:38:27ages because gmail just just always

1:38:29works for me I guess the type of things

1:38:30just use a year after year after year

1:38:32after year on different computers in

1:38:34different browsers different versions of

1:38:35gmail they've changed their UI by just

1:38:37does my email

1:38:39it just does it never doesn't work it

1:38:41just works like gmail like and so I just

1:38:44never looked back and dropbox like i'm

1:38:47still using that and like Dropbox has

1:38:48problems we're going to do we were like

1:38:50oh dropbox deleted all my stuff and

1:38:51didn't save my old versions like

1:38:53everything has problems but over the

1:38:55many many many years that we use these

1:38:56products like that's why you know apples

1:38:59been cut out of those I've chosen the

1:39:00better competitors product it can be

1:39:02done like I gmail for email dropbox for

1:39:04for doing my file syncing I you know

1:39:07both those things could be better in

1:39:08certain ways but they have to get the

1:39:09basics right and so you know like where

1:39:12I don't think you're blindly tied Apple

1:39:14but by the same token I think Marco is

1:39:16choosing to use the apple TV over the

1:39:18boxes because he tried all of the boxes

1:39:20and just because apples the best one

1:39:22doesn't mean they're not making what we

1:39:23view as like silly mistakes that should

1:39:26have been clear to them from all the

1:39:28time that they've been holding this

1:39:29thing waiting for streaming deals or

1:39:30whatever that that there were problems

1:39:31with this product that should have been

1:39:33obvious to them and and they shipped it

1:39:35anyway design problems with it if not in

1:39:37this case reliability problems or

1:39:39whatever

1:39:40alright thanks lat 43 sponsors this week

1:39:43audible.com casper and fracture and we

1:39:45will see you next week

1:39:49now the show is over they didn't even

1:39:52mean to be in because it was accidental

1:39:56it was accidental

1:39:59John research Marco and Casey would let

1:40:04me

1:40:05because it was accidental was accidental

1:40:09and you can find the show know today p

1:40:13dot and if your twitter follow them

1:40:21yes eyl ISS so that's Casey list and a

1:40:26co-pay rm20 Marco Arment and our see you

1:40:34see recuse is

1:40:48never really talked about the hardware

1:40:51side of it that's a big animal groups

1:40:52thing was like oh everyone agrees the

1:40:54hardware is doing better I know

1:40:56marcos been upset about the harbor a

1:40:58little bit more than that other people

1:41:00but well but honestly the hardware is

1:41:02really good like it they I I harp on on

1:41:05two main problems number one that I wish

1:41:09battery life was longer and number two

1:41:11that even though we seem to have more

1:41:13entries in the product line than ever i

1:41:16think we actually have less choice we

1:41:19have more options that have up to the

1:41:23have among them less diversity if that

1:41:25makes sense like that like every laptop

1:41:28apple sells is a thin light like they

1:41:30don't have any big honking I have like

1:41:33three day battery life that doesn't

1:41:34exist

1:41:35every phone they sell is a thin and

1:41:37light you know like it like it the every

1:41:39left they sell now except for the the

1:41:41101 doesn't have user-replaceable disk

1:41:45or or memory and most of them either

1:41:47like it was like something that like

1:41:48there's it

1:41:49no no computer they sell no desktop a

1:41:52cell anymore has internal disk days that

1:41:54are actually accessible you know I think

1:41:56you may be living a little bit in the

1:41:57past but a lot of those requests but I

1:41:59honors I understand where you're coming

1:42:00from but I some of those yes but like if

1:42:02you look at like the roles that were

1:42:04served by the old Mac Pro yes my prince

1:42:06episode if you look at all haha if you

1:42:08look at like the roles that were served

1:42:10by that it's like that get that can

1:42:11handle a lot of a lot of like edge cases

1:42:13right like that if you if you really

1:42:15want a mac that has XYZ hardware

1:42:17capability like the mac pro's oftentimes

1:42:19the answer to that and then the new mac

1:42:21pro they replaced it with knocks out the

1:42:23vast majority that it's like it just

1:42:25removes them from possibility that you

1:42:28know similar with laptop like if you

1:42:29wanted like a laptop with four terabytes

1:42:31of storage you could do that before and

1:42:33now you can't like there's there's a

1:42:34pretty big list of things that used to

1:42:37be possible or configurable with that

1:42:39with mac hardware that is no longer

1:42:41possible in the current lineup or or

1:42:44like is only possible in the 101 the the

1:42:46non-retina 13x whatever like that

1:42:47there's a lot of pretty long list of

1:42:49those things and that in the list of

1:42:51like things we used to be able to do or

1:42:53get or configure that we can't do now

1:42:55seems to be getting longer overtime and

1:42:57not all those things are just outdated

1:42:59technology some of those things are

1:43:01actual

1:43:01why would still be nice if I could do

1:43:02that or I need to do that and I can't

1:43:04so that's my main criticism about of

1:43:07apple hardware is that we are actually

1:43:08getting less real choice than ever I

1:43:11think it's kind of a luxury to be able

1:43:12to complain about things that level of

1:43:14hope because what we're not saying is

1:43:15that in general especially with the

1:43:17mobile hardware year after year the hard

1:43:19way the hardware gets better in

1:43:21measurable ways that are meaningful to

1:43:23people the CPUs get faster and you feel

1:43:25that speed the cameras get better and

1:43:26you see the results of that right

1:43:29they add features that they change

1:43:32change the size of those make a bigger

1:43:33screen and features like the stylus like

1:43:35that the products are just you know the

1:43:37hardware is progressing and then we can

1:43:39have quibble about the directions like

1:43:40it's basically you're coming to is like

1:43:41how do you design your product and what

1:43:43products do you choose to feel what

1:43:44direction do you want the overall

1:43:45product line to go in but in general the

1:43:47individual products like I think about

1:43:49my iphone 6 I pile of the store it's

1:43:52great i'm jelous of the success because

1:43:53it's a little bit faster and has better

1:43:55cameras off you know me like that the

1:43:57the hardware is still doing what we

1:44:00expected to do

1:44:01it's not as it like the equivalent in

1:44:03the hardware realm and the software

1:44:04would be as if when the success comes

1:44:06out after the six like that a whole

1:44:10bunch of things that used to be able to

1:44:11do in the 6r are buried under a bunch of

1:44:13different screens and they removed they

1:44:15have done everything moving the US which

1:44:16would they removed like all the buttons

1:44:18from the entire thing and it's harder to

1:44:19get to the camera and like I said it was

1:44:21like a cover that you had to slide down

1:44:22from the camera every time you want to

1:44:24take a picture because they wanted the

1:44:25outside surface to be like why you broke

1:44:27up about a camera you know like that's

1:44:29the type of crap we're talking about the

1:44:30software world so I feel like in the

1:44:31harbor we have love for you saying yeah

1:44:33yeah apples doing the basic stuff like

1:44:35general design reliability the things

1:44:40look nice they feel nice that they seem

1:44:43to be more cognizant of the aspects of

1:44:45it having to do with being held in the

1:44:46hand even think slippery they try to

1:44:47make it less slippery in the next

1:44:49generation their cases are kind of

1:44:50grippy to take shape that might have

1:44:51been slippery and they get put a case on

1:44:53it improves it and they learn from that

1:44:54cpu is getting faster it's like being

1:44:57back in the nineties and the desktop is

1:44:59still going through that whole chain of

1:45:00things they add more memory eventually

1:45:02you know maybe they'll go past 16 gigs

1:45:05like in general we just take for granted

1:45:06all the standard apple is doing good

1:45:09harbor something that I think is why

1:45:11when people talk about like the hardware

1:45:13is doing great and software

1:45:14there's more of a problem like that i

1:45:16think that that is also a general

1:45:17perception that is not just us that like

1:45:19that if you had to rate apple like

1:45:21magicians that big survey and again

1:45:22maybe it's all echo chamber is just

1:45:24serving a bunch of like tech reporters

1:45:26but like you know technically you can

1:45:27you know it's not as if you can discount

1:45:29the opinion of all tech reporter so

1:45:30there to insider like so should we ask

1:45:33people don't know about the tech

1:45:34industry I guess anyway we do that big

1:45:36survey and you look at the little bar

1:45:37charts of how its Apple doing with like

1:45:39you know great seem like a to f or

1:45:40whatever Hardware they got away higher

1:45:43grade than they got software like just

1:45:45broadly speaking whatever you think

1:45:46about they're just doing better with the

1:45:48hardware than software and the quibbles

1:45:50you get to have about hardware are so

1:45:52much more you know specific and minor

1:45:56then like the basic stuff we're talking

1:45:58about on the software like you know

1:45:59going to a television show and wanting

1:46:02to watch the next episode the television

1:46:04show that you purchased in the apple

1:46:06ecosystem where it looks like a common

1:46:07task and making that pass frustrating is

1:46:10is like it's just falling down the

1:46:12basics right and that's you know so

1:46:15again the overall trends i think it's

1:46:16like not being negative Nellie's there

1:46:19is actual thing out there about that

1:46:21whether it's a real thing or not it is

1:46:23out there and I think everyone can agree

1:46:25even matter how much you love apple if

1:46:27you decide to the day doing better on

1:46:29hardware software lately probably have

1:46:31complained about both but you have to

1:46:32say they're doing better on hardware

1:46:34because the software the the unforced

1:46:36errors are making software just so

1:46:38inexplicable and such a regression where

1:46:40is the very least even if they make a

1:46:41slight mistake on hardware making like

1:46:43the six slippery when they make the

1:46:44success try to make it less slippery

1:46:46right you will be given the past night

1:46:49like you're making progress they'll be

1:46:50you know you fold it but like they're

1:46:52making it better and is the success

1:46:53faster yes isn't as i have better camera

1:46:55yes it does and doesn't have you know

1:46:57cool 3d touchin and the haptic engine

1:47:00noise like it's cooler it's better i

1:47:02wish i had one instead of my six but I

1:47:04don't wish i had the version of iphoto

1:47:06they removed all the toolbar buttons i

1:47:08wish i had the previous one except like

1:47:10those buttons and I don't wish I you

1:47:12know photos is great because it brings

1:47:13great features with clouds thinking but

1:47:15all the other stuff i do with it was was

1:47:17better in old versions of my photos

1:47:19least you weren't an aperture user