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The Accidental Tech Podcast

152: Daddy Didn't Want the Good Graphics Card

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0:00:00I'm sorry everyone follow up so I feel

0:00:05like we should start tonight's

0:00:06programming with the tale of woe

0:00:09i'll start by saying I bought a computer

0:00:13oh I bought a 5k imac well okay so first

0:00:18of all congratulations

0:00:20well yeah maybe not so it's a hand on

0:00:22heart John and Marco did not know that

0:00:24this happened I've been keeping this a

0:00:26secret from them so i could spring it to

0:00:27spring it on the show I bought a 5k imac

0:00:30is in your possession yet or did you

0:00:31just order it

0:00:32oh it's here it's in my trunk you done

0:00:36packing yet although i did this is my

0:00:39tail well does it fit in your trunk and

0:00:41leave 3 series i'll stop it that's how i

0:00:44have i bought this 5k imac I don't like

0:00:47a week ago and i watched it march across

0:00:49the United States be a fedex ground

0:00:51which was infuriating

0:00:53I mean I'd I did it to myself because i

0:00:55didn't pay for like the super fast

0:00:56shipping but it was so I'm not a patient

0:00:59man and it was infuriating watching

0:01:00march across the US but anyway it

0:01:02arrived yesterday and I booted it i set

0:01:07it up by moved files from making my

0:01:09personal computer with my beloved yet

0:01:12very old circuit 2011 hi-res antiglare

0:01:1615-inch macbook pro i moved files from

0:01:19my work computer

0:01:20my my retina macbook pro 15-inch retina

0:01:24macbook pro I got everything set up i

0:01:28put all the software i wanted on it at

0:01:30least at a glance anyway everything

0:01:32seemed ok i then performed a software

0:01:37update i let the software update go i

0:01:40walked away from computer i came back to

0:01:42the computer it seemed like everything

0:01:44had hung after like 20 minutes something

0:01:46like that which was well under the are

0:01:48well over the time it is estimated to

0:01:50take the software update to run there's

0:01:52nothing on the screen the backlight was

0:01:53on the computer had not to my knowledge

0:01:55rebooted everything was just there there

0:01:58i should say nothing was there actually

0:02:00so I powered the Machine off which to be

0:02:03clear may have been the fatal mistake

0:02:05we'll come back to that power the

0:02:06machine off I've heard it back on

0:02:08the chime sounds that's it back lights

0:02:13on the time sounds nothing else

0:02:15ok turn the computer back off after

0:02:19having let it sit for a while

0:02:20turn it back on the chime sounds and

0:02:24that's it

0:02:26hmm this is not good ok let's go through

0:02:30the steps p.m. reset no good

0:02:32smc reset no-good make a USB boot disk

0:02:36no-good mesh down on the D key to try to

0:02:39get the Diagnostics no good recovery no

0:02:41good internet recovery no good

0:02:43it's in the trunk i have a genius bar

0:02:45appointment tomorrow although i may just

0:02:46end up returning and buying a different

0:02:48one because it's already completely host

0:02:50i have no idea what I did it might have

0:02:51been me

0:02:52I'm not saying it wasn't me i'm not

0:02:53looking for the internet to tell me what

0:02:55it was with respect to the internet it

0:02:58will be figured out tomorrow i have

0:03:01engaged to X Apple geniuses i have

0:03:04engaged a friend of the show

0:03:07nobody could tell me it a good answers

0:03:09to what I could do to resuscitate it i

0:03:12think something just genuinely broke

0:03:14during the problem where there any like

0:03:17USB or other kind of devices connected

0:03:19to it that you could have unplugged did

0:03:21you try plugging them

0:03:22oh yes so I had I had my microphone

0:03:25installed because i was all smug and

0:03:26happy because the way this but this

0:03:28episode was supposed to go was I was

0:03:31supposed to say to you guess what guys I

0:03:34am now talking to you on my 5k imac the

0:03:38way this episode is actually going is

0:03:40guess what guys I actually have to

0:03:43either return or get this thing repaired

0:03:46tomorrow which is exactly what i'm going

0:03:48to do i'm not sure what i'm going to do

0:03:49yet i'm very sad i did try target disk

0:03:53mode as somebody is asking the chat

0:03:55target disk mode i have tried everything

0:03:57in my repertoire and everything that 2x

0:04:00geniuses and a friend that works at

0:04:03apple has asked me to try

0:04:05none of it has worked i'm very sad but i

0:04:08will tell you in the two or three hours

0:04:09that it was working it was a magnificent

0:04:12computer and I cannot wait to hopefully

0:04:16get one that works by medics we

0:04:19yeah so I'm very sad it's a sad sad day

0:04:22for me it's kinda like my grandfather

0:04:25were complaining that modern cars

0:04:27actually specifically i was modern car

0:04:30engine Bay's don't have any place for

0:04:31you to get your hands down in them you

0:04:33know like is everything is all packed

0:04:35together really tightly and then you

0:04:36complain about the plastic shroud is

0:04:37covering everything up and complaining

0:04:39about how hard it is to replace things

0:04:40like that are filters and they don't

0:04:41have carburetors anyway but they related

0:04:44complaint to your 5k imac is like back

0:04:47in back in the days of my most feverish

0:04:50trying to diagnose problems one of the

0:04:53things that I would do in this situation

0:04:54I almost adjusted until I realized it's

0:04:56pointless is to try to figure out what

0:04:58the hell's going on like hear the chime

0:05:00it passes the post-test right and then

0:05:03what happens like are you really cannot

0:05:05find the discs are you getting into the

0:05:06boot process and the way you usually

0:05:08tell that is you could hear whether it

0:05:11had started accessing the hard drive and

0:05:12you knew by the series of ticks and

0:05:14sounds is it is it looking for a boot

0:05:16sector is it just power cycling discs on

0:05:19and offers that actually beginning the

0:05:21boot process which has a distinctive

0:05:22sound to it or in the old days with the

0:05:23floppy drive you could tell what the

0:05:25computer was doing and at what point

0:05:26things went wrong but with an SSD and

0:05:29nothing on the screen and definitely no

0:05:31indicator lights or anything like that

0:05:32you know hardware indicator lights for

0:05:33the pc folks

0:05:35you have no idea what's going on it they

0:05:37post so there's no image on the screen

0:05:39has it begun the boot process cannot

0:05:42find the hard drive

0:05:43if you mean if we can find the harder

0:05:44you have the the blinking ? like it but

0:05:47it did pass posters i think that the

0:05:49time only sounds after it does the whole

0:05:51you know that the posters power-on

0:05:53self-test like the whole you if you have

0:05:55like bad ram or whatever you get one of

0:05:57the the bad chimes or something like

0:05:59that so right like almost all my whole

0:06:01diagnostic tools are useless for these

0:06:03computers that don't make any noise

0:06:04except the stupid fan is the fan going

0:06:06there we go we can ask that is passed

0:06:07yes it was as far as like it does it

0:06:09crank up the full speed if you let it

0:06:11sit there

0:06:12no it does not actually let it sit

0:06:13overnight just to be extra specially

0:06:16sure that that was that it wasn't just

0:06:17me being impatient

0:06:19did you spill water into it i did not

0:06:21thank you for asking but i haven't read

0:06:23this important to it to establish that

0:06:25where I mean are there any openings the

0:06:27face upwards there in the back means

0:06:29that you can get water

0:06:30there's always the bottom left behind my

0:06:34god that's me that there are no openings

0:06:37that face upwards i can find is not

0:06:38doesn't like a slip on top part I don't

0:06:40see why I didn't think so so yeah so

0:06:43it's sitting in my trunk to be honest

0:06:44with you I'll probably just return it

0:06:46and probably just order a new one

0:06:47because i feel like it's already tainted

0:06:48I'm still hoping actually hoping you're

0:06:50thinking you're suspecting like this is

0:06:52actually a soft like it's not a hardware

0:06:53problem is a software problem did you

0:06:55know you said you tried a million things

0:06:57the only other one that you didn't

0:06:58mention that you think other ball two

0:07:00things like that 1i assuming since you

0:07:01and he started all these experts you

0:07:03made sure that they all had the most

0:07:05recent up-to-date knowledge about the

0:07:07keys that you have to match because

0:07:08those have changed over the past couple

0:07:10of years and a lot of people might give

0:07:12you advice to hold down key combinations

0:07:13that are no longer the correct one to

0:07:15the same operations but something that's

0:07:16handled that one hurt didn't hear you

0:07:18mentioned is Bruce Bruce are both

0:07:20putting mode i believe its command V you

0:07:23should look it up the one that spews you

0:07:25know the unix console text to your

0:07:28screen during the boot process sometimes

0:07:30that's a good way to find out at one

0:07:31point things go off the rails during the

0:07:33boot process assuming the boot process

0:07:35even began the I did not try that

0:07:37however i did not mention that I also

0:07:39phoned applecare at like they're not

0:07:42going to help you

0:07:43well my thought was let me give them a

0:07:45shot see what they could figure out I

0:07:47and i started the conversation slightly

0:07:50well mildly passive-aggressively and i

0:07:52said here's what i've tried p.m. recent

0:07:54smc recent blah-blah-blah-blah-blah to

0:07:56try to establish we really don't need to

0:07:58go through all of this again if you

0:08:00please have you tried blowing the dust

0:08:01out of the plug but if the smc reset

0:08:06apparently on the East max is to unplug

0:08:08it wait 15 seconds and plug it back in

0:08:10or something along those lines in any

0:08:12case I tried everything you had a try i

0:08:16tried everything that the applecare

0:08:18person till told me to do so in all

0:08:21likelihood i will just return it

0:08:22tomorrow I've not you cancel my genius

0:08:24to put appointment we will see what

0:08:25happens i cannot stress enough internet

0:08:27that by the time you hear this episode

0:08:30if this will already be resolved one way

0:08:32or another

0:08:33well it'll be in the process of he's not

0:08:35well it'll be in the process of being

0:08:36resolved please internet I appreciate

0:08:39your feedback but it is too late by the

0:08:42time you've heard this he is the fast

0:08:43bring for advisement if i order a new

0:08:46one

0:08:47I will absolutely spring for the fast

0:08:49shipping because now i'm really really

0:08:51sad that my literally i use the thing

0:08:53let's see it was seven o'clock because

0:08:55after Declan went to bed that I booted

0:08:57it and started transferring everything

0:08:58and at ten o'clock or thereabouts-- was

0:09:02when i was calling applecare so i used

0:09:04it for three hours

0:09:05I feel so bad for you for this because

0:09:08well in that let's not forget this is

0:09:10the first desktop bought in easily a

0:09:12decade yeah and we will definitely

0:09:13interrogate you about why you chose to

0:09:15do this and why you did it now and and

0:09:17etcetera because i really want to know

0:09:18all these things but first of all I do

0:09:20want to express my sincere condolences

0:09:21because like I i hate it like if you cut

0:09:24it it's so puts a damper on like you

0:09:27know a big purchase of a thing you're

0:09:29really excited about that you hardly

0:09:31ever get to buy and all the end like it

0:09:34comes and it has some problem that you

0:09:35have to deal with that sucks it puts

0:09:37such a damper on the whole thing

0:09:38yeah it really does and you know what I

0:09:40thought about those so yesterday

0:09:41obviously I was much more angry and

0:09:42pissed off than I am now yet but

0:09:45yesterday i was thinking about it and I

0:09:46thought what if for the sake of

0:09:48conversation

0:09:50this was my very first mac like that's a

0:09:53terrible experience now admittedly this

0:09:56is this is definitely a fluke

0:09:58this is this is weird this is not

0:10:01something that normally happens to my

0:10:02recollection in my eight years of owning

0:10:05max I think that's ready to eat issues

0:10:07of only max I have never had a software

0:10:09update fail so I to be clear this is a

0:10:13fluke it's just it's weird but damn if

0:10:16it isn't frustrating and all my goodness

0:10:18if I was if this was my first mac i

0:10:21would go I would go running back to Del

0:10:24now I'm not an idiot

0:10:26so I'm not going to do that my crazy

0:10:28here no i agree i agree but i'm just

0:10:30saying like if this was imagine if your

0:10:32first experience with this you know it

0:10:34was like you know 32 3032 hundred-dollar

0:10:36computer it imagine your first

0:10:38experiences all it works for three hours

0:10:40and then it's dead all of it it doesn't

0:10:42really matter like that experience

0:10:44doesn't really matter unless it must

0:10:46some kind of epidemic which i'm assuming

0:10:47it isn't right but I every every every

0:10:49company has like the DOA things all that

0:10:51matters is what happens after that's all

0:10:53that that's what that's what you know i

0:10:54mean like for dell the reason to

0:10:56galleries a lot of people like

0:10:57all in the enterprise anyway is that

0:11:00when something happens when someone

0:11:02drops a dell laptop on something breaks

0:11:03or whatever you can have new hardware in

0:11:07your hands in a shockingly small amount

0:11:09of time and so it's not let you know

0:11:11that things are gonna happen you're

0:11:12gonna get out you gonna buy 50 dell

0:11:14laptops and one of them is going to be

0:11:16DOA that's not the thing that annoys you

0:11:18would annoy you for example here we're

0:11:20going to apple if you had to wait a week

0:11:22to get the new one it doesn't know you

0:11:23if the next morning when you come into

0:11:25work somebody from dell is there with

0:11:26the box and says give me your old one

0:11:27here's your new one later and you're

0:11:29like go

0:11:30that was easy and so for apple like the

0:11:32thing that counts is how good was your

0:11:34applecare phone experience which in my

0:11:36experience is not that great how when

0:11:38you go to the Genius Bar how's that

0:11:40experience going to be and how you know

0:11:43how much faster they give you how

0:11:45sympathetic are they this matters to how

0:11:46sympathetic is the person to your

0:11:47frustration about getting a do a

0:11:50computer which is basically how its set

0:11:51categorize this is assuming there's a

0:11:53hardware thing it's not like the

0:11:54software update brokers just you know

0:11:56the hardware problem with this machine

0:11:57which is DOA and it's best to find out

0:11:59now right

0:12:00it's all about how it's handled after

0:12:01the fact that my 152 Apple stories about

0:12:04this thing of that told the other one

0:12:06I'm past broadcast when I got my ac30

0:12:08the power supply made a high pitch noise

0:12:10that only people under thirty could hear

0:12:12how do you remember this yeah and that

0:12:13was my most disappointing one because

0:12:15because I was a kid and when your kid or

0:12:19like when your kid at heart like Casey

0:12:20you get your hopes up this exciting new

0:12:22shiny computer and it comes and you're

0:12:25sad right so that was that was the most

0:12:27crushing one and the other one which I

0:12:28may have mentioned the passes when this

0:12:30is the pizza box powerpc performer

0:12:33actually performing 61 something CD got

0:12:38that for Christmas and offers a family

0:12:42computer but whatever it's mine and the

0:12:44the terrible gross pc sourced 15-inch

0:12:49multisync apple monitor that came with

0:12:52it was DOA like the monitors didn't work

0:12:53you plugged in and nothing happened no

0:12:55lights came on the screen so i got that

0:12:57Christmas Day and I was older so I

0:13:00wasn't totally you know devastated i

0:13:02didn't have any other monitors that

0:13:04could fit because of the differences in

0:13:05the connectors this was a multisync

0:13:07monitors basically a pc monitor

0:13:09connector with a slight difference in

0:13:10any way

0:13:11my other ones wouldn't work with it so

0:13:13you get something on Christmas music

0:13:15Christmas you said to apple had a new

0:13:18monitor on our front doorstep the

0:13:20morning after Christmas

0:13:22that's pretty impressive that yeah so as

0:13:24it not only do they not wait for us to

0:13:26ship it back or you know ship it to us

0:13:29and get here is that was like you're sad

0:13:31on christmas day you go to sleep you

0:13:32wake up the next morning the monitors on

0:13:34your doorstep and so that was pretty

0:13:35amazing

0:13:36yeah i'm i'm curious to see how this

0:13:39works out but you're absolutely right

0:13:41that it it's all about how how

0:13:45sympathetic people are and how people

0:13:47react to it and I think it will be fine

0:13:50it all it all work itself out but I'm it

0:13:53man what a bummer what a serious bummer

0:13:56and how much hassle it is like that you

0:13:58have to convince anyone of anything is

0:14:00there a lot of paperwork to fill out how

0:14:02long does it take for you to have the

0:14:04situation remedied to your satisfaction

0:14:06like you can make a big difference even

0:14:08if even if like you got it fixed the

0:14:10next day but to do that you have to like

0:14:12argue with someone on the phone that's a

0:14:13terrible experience but right if you go

0:14:16through it and someone is sympathetic

0:14:17and just just you know it seems like

0:14:19bump that's it

0:14:20yep that's it you'll have a new computer

0:14:22on Dax you're like oh that was easy and

0:14:24you come away from that experience if

0:14:26everything has gone well actually liking

0:14:28the brand more than you would have if

0:14:30you had just gotten the thing and it

0:14:31worked out of the box with yeah totally

0:14:33that the perverse way the human nature

0:14:34works the worst of the worst one though

0:14:37the one you can't recover from luckily

0:14:39were all out of this phase is like when

0:14:40i got my obscenely expensive Apple 22

0:14:43inch LCD monitor and had dead pixels on

0:14:46it and I tried to look for them but i

0:14:48can see that you know about that because

0:14:51I knew going in with the policy was the

0:14:53policy is it is an X number of pixels

0:14:54know this our part or whatever sorry

0:14:56luck of the draw you got unlucky and you

0:14:59know i guess i suppose i could have

0:15:00returned it and tried again and returned

0:15:02it and try to get her in here and didn't

0:15:04try it again but I was just not up for

0:15:05that you know yesterday I was really

0:15:07upset

0:15:08not even just angry i was i was

0:15:10genuinely upset but today with a little

0:15:14bit of clarity and how whole i can see

0:15:16that this is like the most first world

0:15:18first world problems that my shiny new

0:15:20computer didn't work immediately

0:15:22oh well like get over yourself but

0:15:24man it it did bum me out a little bit

0:15:26i'm you paid good money for that thing

0:15:28don't you know don't diminish this

0:15:30yeah so hopefully will rectify itself we

0:15:33don't we don't need to talk about this

0:15:34anymore if if you guys don't have

0:15:36anything to say we can move on to follow

0:15:38up if you have any other questions I'm

0:15:39happy to feel them

0:15:40I have so many questions but first can

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0:18:01my question was about I know you're not

0:18:03gonna mess with it yourself but uh ram

0:18:05the wiggles loose as the thing took its

0:18:07bumpy little journey across the entire

0:18:09country

0:18:09I it's funny you say that I receded the

0:18:12ram just to be safe

0:18:13no difference I'll see I would've said

0:18:15the same thing is to not try to do that

0:18:17because i don't know like you peed on

0:18:20the carpet and like a ditz i would i

0:18:23would be like look I just can't I

0:18:24haven't touched a thing that came out of

0:18:26the box i've been using it like use a

0:18:27computer by pressing buttons on the

0:18:28keyboard and mouse or trackpad and now

0:18:30it's Friday like all you opened it up

0:18:32well but you're supposed to be a little

0:18:33bit up by you know so I just most

0:18:36paranoid with apples i would not have

0:18:37even tried that I would have just

0:18:38brought inside of the Rams unseated it's

0:18:40not my problem in touch fair fair Point

0:18:42and actually that brings up a really

0:18:43interesting point let me tell you how I

0:18:46know i'm old i was extremely and remain

0:18:49actually extremely skeptical that me

0:18:53doing like command are for recovery I

0:18:56believe that's right i was looking at

0:18:57the documents when i was when i was

0:18:59doing these keystrokes if I get them

0:19:00wrong now I apologize but I command our

0:19:02option command or whatever it is for

0:19:03internet recovery and d4 diagnostics all

0:19:06these things that was mashing i

0:19:07initially was doing that on the new

0:19:10bluetooth keyboard that came with it

0:19:12which by the way i like quite a bit i

0:19:13really like it a lot a lot this is the

0:19:15new like semi skinny one right that's

0:19:17correct but anyway so I'm doing all of

0:19:20this and I'm doing it on a Bluetooth

0:19:23keyboard and the old man in me is so

0:19:26damn skeptical that this keyboard is

0:19:29even connected to the computer that i

0:19:32first plugged it in with the lightning

0:19:35cable then I decided no I'm not even

0:19:37convinced that's good enough and i have

0:19:39a hundred one key apple keyboard that i

0:19:41got from god-knows-where that's USB i

0:19:44plug that in and did all these keys

0:19:46looks again just to be safe but it's it

0:19:49weirded me out to be relying on wireless

0:19:52devices in order to try to kick off

0:19:54these extremely low-level like boot

0:19:56sequences I don't just mean that's me

0:19:59being old and weird i suppose

0:20:01anyway any other questions for sure we

0:20:02do some follow-up why did you get this

0:20:04computer right so I knew it was time to

0:20:08get a different computer i hadn't bought

0:20:10a computer since my i already mentioned

0:20:132011 hi-res entire back pro that thing

0:20:19sits on my desk constantly that's all it

0:20:21does is sit on the desk and even though

0:20:24I've been a laptop guy for easily a

0:20:26decade and change in fact i think i made

0:20:28the switch during school so somewhere in

0:20:30the early 2000s was when I really became

0:20:32a laptop kind of guy and i thought to

0:20:36myself i will have a work laptop as we

0:20:39discussed quite a bit of heat that

0:20:41several episodes back I'll have a work

0:20:42laptop and it occurred to me just

0:20:44yesterday that i have my high resident

0:20:47eclair you know macbook pro that I could

0:20:50put an SSD and like we were just talking

0:20:51about so i will still have a laptop and

0:20:54even in a real pinch I can take errands

0:20:57a scuba-diving macbook her and use that

0:21:01if I really wanted to use a laptop

0:21:03beyond that as I've also talked about on

0:21:06the show Aaron got me a brand new ipad

0:21:09mini for Christmas and for a lot of

0:21:13things especially when mated to a

0:21:14bluetooth keyboard that's probably

0:21:16sufficient so say I wanted to write a

0:21:19blog post downstairs while I'm sitting

0:21:21next to her on the couch

0:21:22I could use my iPad I could use her

0:21:24laptop I could use my old laptop I could

0:21:26use my work laptop so if i have like 80

0:21:28for portable devices rolling around the

0:21:30house

0:21:31do I really need another but i have a

0:21:33couple of things that I really want

0:21:34running all the time like plex for

0:21:36example why not have that running on a

0:21:39desktop rather than running on my yet my

0:21:42laptop and so it seems to me like I'm

0:21:45running out of good reasons to have a

0:21:49laptop and so if I'm gonna get a desktop

0:21:52and damned if I don't lust after these

0:21:54like apple cinema displays that are all

0:21:56over the place on the client that i'm

0:21:58working at which we talked about in the

0:21:59past

0:22:00one just bite the bullet and get a damn

0:22:02imac and that's what I did and I tell

0:22:04you what it's weird only having one

0:22:07monitor because at home

0:22:08not right now actually because I put it

0:22:10away but at home I typically have two

0:22:11monitors at work I always have two

0:22:14monitors it's weird only having one

0:22:16monitor those you can have to donate

0:22:17melon

0:22:18yeah I know you thank you thank you oh

0:22:20my god thank you i know you can have to

0:22:22write but when it's a 27-inch screen

0:22:25you really told needed it's really ok

0:22:28and all my god is that screen beautiful

0:22:30did you guys know that screen is really

0:22:32pretty I feel like we should talk about

0:22:34this in the past or something but Marco

0:22:36has the worst one but I have the same

0:22:37one as you know it if only somebody

0:22:42would have told you about a month ago

0:22:43but all the benefits of death yes yes

0:22:45yes

0:22:46so eventually i thought you know it's

0:22:48all kidding aside I thought you know let

0:22:49me just try this test something because

0:22:51you know what it's a lot of fun time no

0:22:54question full stop it's a lot of money

0:22:56I what I got was under apologize i said

0:22:59this already but I got a

0:22:59middle-of-the-road 1i I got it with

0:23:02eight gigs of ram because i was planning

0:23:03on putting some aftermarket ram in it

0:23:05did you get cpu I got the four 4

0:23:08gigahertz CPU yes and I got the one

0:23:12terabyte SSD so basically a fairly

0:23:15loaded middle-of-the-road i'm at 5k imac

0:23:19because i didn't see the need for a

0:23:21really fancy graphics card because I

0:23:23don't ever play games so I i loved the

0:23:27machine for the three hours to use that

0:23:30benefited i and i'm really looking

0:23:32forward to sticking with it i really

0:23:34think this is probably going to be the

0:23:36right answer for me ask me again in a

0:23:38few months obviously and i say that both

0:23:40sarcastically and seriously because I'm

0:23:42curious to see if I miss it

0:23:43who works here yeah if it works but i'm

0:23:47i'm really thinking that that this was

0:23:49probably the right answer especially if

0:23:51I start doing a little more iOS

0:23:52development which I'm i'm hoping to be

0:23:54doing soon

0:23:56that's a pretty good way to do it and i

0:23:57will say that after having used this

0:24:0127-inch 5k imac fourth two-and-a-half to

0:24:04three hours as i was going to

0:24:07troubleshoot I got out my work 15 inch

0:24:10retina macbook pro and hand on heart the

0:24:14first thing i thought to myself was holy

0:24:16God the screen is tiny and is never

0:24:18thought that 15 inch laptop ever before

0:24:22in my life

0:24:24yes so two things you you're not ruined

0:24:26our first of all the screen quality of

0:24:29the 5k is still way better even the 1i

0:24:33have that that has the worst color gamut

0:24:34than yours

0:24:35it is the the screen on the 5k is way

0:24:38better than the screen on any of the

0:24:39laptops including the newest 15 will see

0:24:42that changes when they go to sky like a

0:24:44moon a few months or whatever but as of

0:24:46today like it

0:24:48the imax screen is by far the nicest

0:24:50screen apple sells in my eye maybe ipad

0:24:53pro I haven't looked too much added but

0:24:54like I thought the ipad mini was

0:24:55actually the best of the portables at me

0:24:58maybe you know for like certain metrics

0:24:59I you know I i know the test you're

0:25:01talking about but I like among max I

0:25:03think the 5k imac is just far away far

0:25:06ahead of the other ones because just I

0:25:08mean everything about it like that the

0:25:10color the contrast like the the pixel

0:25:12density I don't know a bunch of stuff i

0:25:15understand it just looks great and once

0:25:16you're accustomed to looking at a 5k

0:25:18when you look at the retina macbook pro

0:25:21you you can tell them they're in a macro

0:25:23screen almost seems blurry by comparison

0:25:25like its it is a very different look and

0:25:28it looks fantastic on the 5k and so

0:25:30first of all you are now ruined so yes

0:25:33you can go ahead and plug in additional

0:25:35monitors to it but you won't want to

0:25:37because anything else you plug into it

0:25:39look like garbage and apple is no is not

0:25:41yet shipping a standalone version of

0:25:43this monitor i hope they do in the

0:25:45future and for people to do what

0:25:46multi-monitor or who don't have a laptop

0:25:48don't have a 5k but having a laptop or

0:25:50something but for now this is the best

0:25:52green apple sells the only way you can

0:25:53get it is inside the 5ki and nothing

0:25:56nothing else matches it and even having

0:25:59a laptop next to it is is just no kinda

0:26:01so a you ruin screen quality and B

0:26:03you're definitely on screen size you

0:26:05know now and this is how i feel about

0:26:07how it felt for years ever since i got a

0:26:08giant monitor like this I i can do work

0:26:11on my 15-inch macbook pro and i have and

0:26:14i need to usually a few times a year i

0:26:16need to do something really heavy on the

0:26:18map program glad I have it but every

0:26:20time i do work on the map or i'm tempted

0:26:23to work the macbook pro and I

0:26:24can work on the desktop like either

0:26:26either it's just on the outside of the

0:26:28house or I'll be back to back home in a

0:26:31couple days and i can do it then i will

0:26:33just put off work until I can do it on

0:26:35the big screen because i know that i

0:26:36will wait happier and more productive

0:26:38doing on the big screen so like you will

0:26:41probably follow a similar path variable

0:26:45people really well I could work on this

0:26:47laptop but screen is so cramped but it's

0:26:50might as well just wait till I can go

0:26:52upstairs and do it on the imac yeah yeah

0:26:54we'll say I am I am genuinely a little

0:26:56i'm going to use the word worried

0:26:58because I can't think of a better word

0:26:59but i'm a little worried about what this

0:27:01means for my home life and for my

0:27:05relationship with aaron because I I

0:27:07don't often sit with a laptop downstairs

0:27:09next errand but i wouldn't say it's

0:27:11uncommon either and now if I want to use

0:27:14my computer I'm gonna have to be

0:27:16upstairs in one of our bedrooms which

0:27:18you know is always my in-home office and

0:27:21that's what I'm saying right now to

0:27:22record and so I don't want to ignore

0:27:25Aaron on a regular basis

0:27:27just because I want to be upstairs in my

0:27:29fancy new imac but we'll see what

0:27:31happens i mean if that's the most of my

0:27:33problems I'm in pretty damn good shape

0:27:35our nice so we'll see but I i don't mean

0:27:37this to be snarky I mean I genuinely and

0:27:40then the two and a half three hours

0:27:41I'm i would I use the thing I really

0:27:44really really loved it i really did and

0:27:46admittedly some of that was a shiny but

0:27:49it was fast it worked well I was

0:27:53transferring things from both laptops to

0:27:55the to the to the imac a God knows

0:27:58what's gonna happen with that data if I

0:27:59return it but anyway uh I was

0:28:01transferring stuff to the imac at at

0:28:04ridiculous speeds i was doing like 18

0:28:06things at once i'm a really heavy user

0:28:09of what is its paces the multiple

0:28:11virtual screens and it's all wrapped

0:28:13into Mission Control now but i barely

0:28:15use them on this imac because god help

0:28:17me I have like 10 different windows open

0:28:20at once shut up John I'd like 10

0:28:23different winter so but it wants which

0:28:25is like eight more that i usually have I

0:28:27don't know maybe I just have a simple

0:28:28simple mind yet

0:28:29I think you're not the only one with

0:28:31spaces i see with all these youngsters

0:28:32at work who

0:28:34we have many more max at work now we

0:28:35have many more youngsters at work and

0:28:38ever ever it's very easy and multiple

0:28:39monitors at work so that the domain like

0:28:44the wave young people and generalizing

0:28:46the way the young people i see at my

0:28:48work these days you write exactly use

0:28:50their max is that multiple monitors they

0:28:54like lots of monitors like the more the

0:28:56better one guy like six with wrinkles

0:28:58and they full screen everything and they

0:29:02attempt to use spaces in Mission Control

0:29:04to cycle through things like I'll be

0:29:07sitting there and watching somebody do

0:29:08something that they're there they'll be

0:29:10demonstrating something they'll have to

0:29:11have a text editor full screen on one

0:29:1317-inch monitor and another text editor

0:29:16web browser for another 17-inch monitor

0:29:18and sometimes would be like well go to

0:29:20this web page go to the source file go

0:29:21to this go do that go to the terminal

0:29:22window all these things would fit like

0:29:24117 screen at the person who like use

0:29:27windows windows down because really

0:29:29terminal terminal filling an entire

0:29:31letterbox format 17 inch screen is

0:29:34ridiculous right but instead it's like

0:29:37where's that window again where that

0:29:38window lots of gestures and keyboard

0:29:40combinations to you know go through

0:29:42spaces with the control arrow keys and

0:29:44gestures to swipe from one to the other

0:29:45to try to make the thing they're looking

0:29:47for appear on one of the two screens and

0:29:50I can't see what's in front of behind

0:29:52they just have to like and they don't

0:29:53seem to have an awareness there's no

0:29:54like like it used to be where spaces

0:29:57were 2d instead of just like a 1d strip

0:29:59remember the 2d spaces things we go up

0:30:00down left and right at least ever

0:30:02fighting chance instead what I see it is

0:30:04two screens that the icy hands moving

0:30:06furiously I see two screens blink blink

0:30:08blink blink blink blink blink

0:30:10all I found it there and then we'll go

0:30:12back to the thing okay blink blink blink

0:30:14blink blink blink blink found this like

0:30:16this is this does not seem efficient so

0:30:20yeah anyway people like a movie should

0:30:23we should know this from the from

0:30:24Windows Windows taught us that people

0:30:25like to maximize everything and the mac

0:30:28users like well max used on maximizing

0:30:29everything well guess what

0:30:31now that Max are more common the people

0:30:33who maximize everything have max and

0:30:34they try to work the same way so don't

0:30:36do that Casey it's a waste of your

0:30:38screen space but i don't typically

0:30:40maximize everything but what I typically

0:30:42do is have spaces kind of Orient like

0:30:46things

0:30:47well as an example the probably the the

0:30:49best example is I have one space that

0:30:52has my work I am the relay slack and I

0:30:56messages in three tiles on that space

0:31:00they take up the whole screen so though

0:31:02the left half the screen is work i am

0:31:04this is on like a work computer of

0:31:05course left half the screen is work i am

0:31:07and then the right half the screen is

0:31:09split in half so the top half is real a

0:31:12slack and the bottom half is I messages

0:31:14and that's actually what's going on

0:31:16right now so that's just a simple

0:31:18example and I like spaces it's not for

0:31:21everyone but like i said when i was

0:31:22using this imac i found that that I

0:31:25could just tile damn near everything

0:31:27into one space which is a weird thing

0:31:30for me but but my love of spaces is also

0:31:32the reason that I feel like I can't use

0:31:35any other mouse other than the magic

0:31:37mouse because i'm addicted to the

0:31:39two-finger swipe I understand that

0:31:41Mike's beloved MX revolution or whatever

0:31:43it is has configurations in which you

0:31:45can swap spaces with buttons and whatnot

0:31:47but but for me I've always use the magic

0:31:51mouse i love it plus the mass crippled

0:31:52him so then that Mouse also crippled him

0:31:54so there's that

0:31:55minor details right no big deal right so

0:31:59anyway so yes I in my brief usage and

0:32:01again I know I sound snarky but I'm not

0:32:03trying to be in my very brief usage of

0:32:04this machine I actually really really

0:32:06really liked it and if I return it

0:32:09tomorrow if I get it repaired tomorrow

0:32:10one way or the other i am looking

0:32:12forward to having some

0:32:13honest-to-goodness time with it but it

0:32:16was fast it was it was nice it was

0:32:19pretty the screen was beautiful i really

0:32:22enjoy the new peripheral peripherals the

0:32:25under the new magic mouse seemed roughly

0:32:27the same to me I couldn't tell any major

0:32:29differences like I understand what the

0:32:31differences are but just from feel and

0:32:34whatnot I couldn't really tell the

0:32:35differences the new keyboard though I

0:32:37really really liked a lot I feel like

0:32:39every single Apple keyboard in the house

0:32:41i have the 2011 macbook pro I of the

0:32:442013-2015 macbook pro i have the hundred

0:32:48one keyboard i have a4 battery bluetooth

0:32:51keyboard i have errands macbook air

0:32:54every single one of those keyboards I

0:32:56swear to you feels just a little bit

0:32:57different but i really liked the new the

0:33:00new bluetooth one I've what is it the

0:33:02magic keyboard or something i always get

0:33:04the names wrong anyway the whatever the

0:33:06brand new one is I really liked it a lot

0:33:08so so the hardware accepting the fact

0:33:10that it died with this waterfall and and

0:33:15I you know it too quick personal

0:33:18anecdote my office is a disaster

0:33:21the the one in my house is a disaster

0:33:22you could barely see the carpet and

0:33:24there was like a path between the door

0:33:26and the chair and that was about it and

0:33:28in preparation for this thing it was as

0:33:30it was marching across the country

0:33:32I finally did what aaron has been

0:33:33begging me to do for like two years now

0:33:35and I cleaned up my office and my desk

0:33:38was all clean i have a glass desk

0:33:39because I've had it forever but I guess

0:33:41I'm that kind of loser and so I have

0:33:43this glass desk is all cleaned off i

0:33:45moved my mic from one side of the desk

0:33:47to the other with your podcasters like a

0:33:49really big deal and I was all ready to

0:33:51go with it was going to be great and now

0:33:55it's in my trunk to get prepared to

0:33:57return tomorrow

0:33:59that's sucks yeah i'm very sad because I

0:34:01really do feel so bad for you because i

0:34:03like i like i just as i said earlier

0:34:05like the idea of like you know having

0:34:07like you know thought about it and saved

0:34:09up and finally ordered and track and

0:34:12receive this thing only to have it then

0:34:13just be broken like it just it's such a

0:34:15damper on which should be like the

0:34:17exciting time that you finally got you

0:34:19know you you paid for you waited

0:34:21patiently got it and like I said I as

0:34:24silly as it is one of the things I was

0:34:26most excited for what's to say to you

0:34:28get was to say to the two of you guess

0:34:29what writing talking you're my new hat

0:34:32like I said I went out when i was doing

0:34:34all of this installation i had already

0:34:36had my mic connected because there's no

0:34:38reason not to

0:34:39and then nevermind that time so anyway

0:34:43we've talked about this far too long we

0:34:45should probably do some follow-up

0:34:46especially since we have a fair bit of

0:34:47it but I appreciate you indulging me and

0:34:50next week we will have some amount to

0:34:53follow up either i returned it or maybe

0:34:56I gotta repaired we'll see what happens

0:34:58but i wont will follow back up next week

0:35:00before you move on do you want to

0:35:02preemptively apologize to Declan for his

0:35:05bed minecraft 2.3 frame rates

0:35:08haha well given that he's what 14 and a

0:35:11half months now I'm not too worried

0:35:13about I said minecraft 2.3 by the time

0:35:16he reaches minecraft age you'll still

0:35:18have that computer he'll be using it and

0:35:20the new version of Minecraft will

0:35:21probably not get great frame rates and

0:35:23they'll ask why and then you'll have to

0:35:24explain to him daddy didn't want the

0:35:26good graphics card if you do you really

0:35:28think that good graphics card make a

0:35:29difference when he's playing a game on a

0:35:31seven-year-old computer i think it will

0:35:33because minecraft like I assume there

0:35:35will be no minecraft to who knows at

0:35:37that point in his life but minecraft

0:35:39does can be surprisingly demanding if

0:35:42you crank everything up to max on my 5k

0:35:46iMac which was the best video card that

0:35:47you can get in that particular machine

0:35:48you can make it chug occasionally like

0:35:50it can happen you know obviously he's

0:35:53not going to have the graphic settings

0:35:54max but I think even its standard

0:35:55graphics settings with a reasonable draw

0:35:57distance by the time he is of age and

0:36:01minecraft has evolved to have slightly

0:36:03fancier graphics perhaps it's not gonna

0:36:06be a great frame rates then it's

0:36:07someone's going to answer for that and

0:36:09well I guess I'll explain to if you

0:36:10don't want to because it's not like

0:36:12you're gonna get rid of that beautiful

0:36:13screen that you're going to use that

0:36:14thing for as the like it'll be a viable

0:36:16computer for a really long time except

0:36:18maybe for Minecraft okay first of all I

0:36:21need to teach you guys about selling

0:36:22computers while they're still worth

0:36:23something

0:36:24second of all second of all I love John

0:36:28that you that you assume there might not

0:36:30be a minecraft to I know Microsoft Bob

0:36:33Dom I understand it's a billion-dollar

0:36:35business there will definitely be a

0:36:38minecraft to it might not be good and it

0:36:40might not be for a while but there will

0:36:42definitely be a minecraft snow it's

0:36:43already on the app store to just an ok

0:36:45right now I mean like for this way if

0:36:49not still owned it i mean there were

0:36:50additional should have already been a

0:36:52minecraft to intrude but there wasn't

0:36:53because the the company and the person

0:36:55who owned it just continued to revise

0:36:57the program and continue to sell you

0:37:00know the original program now the micro

0:37:02zones that you're right there will

0:37:03surely be a minecraft at some point but

0:37:06i'm not quite sure when that will be

0:37:08could be borderline

0:37:09they and I don't know what kind of

0:37:10priority this for them to get my

0:37:13together minecraft to out versus just

0:37:16revising and continue to sell minecraft

0:37:18and every single new platforms because

0:37:19they are selling same game over and over

0:37:20again with selling ps4 the cell wall no

0:37:23less so now but now this element xbox

0:37:25one they'll saw the pc version probably

0:37:27so windows phone version you know the

0:37:30salt keeps on the iOS version so i don't

0:37:34know for their there's a burning need to

0:37:36make a minecraft to before Declan

0:37:38reaches that age people say we respond

0:37:40to this week by blue apron helping you

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0:37:50only should you know your way around the

0:37:51kitchen but cooking at home it's eating

0:37:52healthier and saving money instead of

0:37:54ordering expensive unhealthy takeout

0:37:56every night but where do you start blue

0:37:58apron has you covered for less than ten

0:38:00dollars per meal they deliver all the

0:38:02fresh ingredients you need to create

0:38:03home-cooked meals just follow the easy

0:38:05step-by-step instructions they give you

0:38:06for each recipe with pictures of every

0:38:08step right on the recipe cards so you

0:38:10can see exactly what's supposed to look

0:38:11like it comes exactly the ingredients

0:38:13you need there's no like massive amount

0:38:15of extra like summer but you need to

0:38:17throw away in a week when it goes when

0:38:19it was rotten and regardless of your

0:38:20dietary preferences they have lots of

0:38:22options they make it a breeze to

0:38:23discover and prepare dishes right in

0:38:25your own kitchen so this week they have

0:38:27things like garganelli pasta and tomato

0:38:29sauce with fresh mozzarella and arugula

0:38:31orange salad that's all that's a

0:38:33mouthful literally texting and buffalo

0:38:36chicken sandwiches with endive and blue

0:38:38cheese salad also cook with ingredients

0:38:39that you've probably never used before

0:38:41like this week's poblano chili or baby

0:38:44bok choy or pearl onions now all these

0:38:46recipes are between 500 and 700 calories

0:38:49per portion so it's really delicious and

0:38:51good for you right now you can get your

0:38:53first two meals for free at blue apron

0:38:55calm / ATP that's blue apron calm / ATP

0:38:59blue apron a better way to cook i am

0:39:02still thinking about that time soup they

0:39:03had like two months ago

0:39:04man that was good yet you know it's

0:39:06funny you bring that up so as part of

0:39:08blue apron sponsoring us they gave us a

0:39:10few weeks of free meals and i have been

0:39:12wanting to try blue apron for the

0:39:14longest time it took us all of one week

0:39:16for Aaron and I to look at each other

0:39:17and say this might be worth it because

0:39:19this is really really really good

0:39:22and tonight we had korean and I'm a

0:39:24butcher this korean t och and spicy pork

0:39:26ragout and this was one of those things

0:39:29that it's not totally out of our comfort

0:39:31zone but not in our comfort zone if that

0:39:34makes sense and oh man was it really

0:39:37good

0:39:37and last week was our first week we had

0:39:39a few different things they were all

0:39:40good now I really i'm really loving

0:39:43brunette blue apron so far and I think

0:39:45it's a pretty much done deal that Aaron

0:39:48and I are going to end up signing up and

0:39:49actually using our own money to pay for

0:39:51it because it's awesome

0:39:52Casey we had the same dinner today did

0:39:54we all that's the likely i have the

0:39:55exact same thing at the exact same blue

0:39:57apron meal yeah did you like it I did it

0:40:00was one of my favorite ones that have

0:40:02had so far

0:40:02yes same here like it was one of those

0:40:04things where we were both like yeah

0:40:05we'll try it we'll see how it goes and

0:40:07then Aaron and I looked at each other

0:40:08after having had a few bright and we

0:40:10were like wow is this code you like we

0:40:12didn't expect it

0:40:13yeah you can i found that have not been

0:40:14able to predict like ahead of time which

0:40:16ones are going to like which ones are

0:40:18not going to mostly because I there you

0:40:19know there are so very big you really

0:40:22have no I have no like baseline to say

0:40:26well i like that i don't know I've never

0:40:27heard anything like that before and the

0:40:30other thing I'd add this is getting out

0:40:31of the everybody into like blue apron

0:40:33hacks I don't know if this thing that

0:40:34people do so say you sign up look blue

0:40:36apron and you do it for a while and it's

0:40:38like interesting it like one of the

0:40:39reasons I think you should do it even if

0:40:41you just do it for a short time is just

0:40:43to see you try a bunch of different

0:40:44foods or whatever and they give you like

0:40:47the given credence and they also give

0:40:48you like a no its you isn't always one

0:40:50page market now like a one-page thing on

0:40:52how to cook it that I've never seen it

0:40:54be more than one pic it's always but

0:40:55it's always one sheet of paper with

0:40:56about eight steps in the back right and

0:40:58it has the ingredients on the other side

0:41:00right well the front of it has like a

0:41:01big picture and a list of ingredients

0:41:02and the back of it has like like a two

0:41:05column grid of instructions with photos

0:41:07of each step right so when you're done

0:41:09with Ricky instead you decided not to

0:41:10pay for it anymore

0:41:11you still have all those recipes so if

0:41:13you liked one of them in theory you

0:41:15could go and make it yourself go buy the

0:41:16ingredients yourself me not going to get

0:41:18the perfect little portions the blue

0:41:19apron games you see often just the

0:41:21amount that maybe you have leftovers and

0:41:22maybe you will have that

0:41:23damn you know urban and the refrigerator

0:41:26but you can make these again yourself

0:41:29like there's no reason like if you find

0:41:30one that super favorite just add it to

0:41:32your collection of things that you

0:41:33regularly make for yourself

0:41:35yeah we've only been with blueprints for

0:41:37only six months now we've been a bit was

0:41:39long before they were sponsored we've

0:41:41been using them and we we've been doing

0:41:42that since the start we've collected all

0:41:44of our for all the recipes we like we

0:41:45just have this giant stack of the

0:41:46typically on a bookshelf

0:41:48yeah yeah yeah and it brought the

0:41:50problem i had i try want to make the

0:41:52awesome i think it's like chicken costly

0:41:54or something i'm sorry i forget i forget

0:41:56the name of it is but is this awesome

0:41:57chicken thai soup and I tried to go buy

0:42:00the ingredients for last week and just

0:42:02like my store had almost none of them

0:42:04but the lights i will be using it a long

0:42:07time and that that should tell you need

0:42:09to know I mean we keep using it what I

0:42:10like about it at this is way too long to

0:42:12respond to read but I'm sorry what I

0:42:13like about it is that with the reason we

0:42:16said we did it was that we don't like to

0:42:17have to think about like what are we

0:42:19making this week and then plan huge like

0:42:21that let we lasted like two weeks trying

0:42:23to do that and every six months we will

0:42:25try to do that again and we will just

0:42:27fail so soon afterwards they take all

0:42:29the decision-making advocates for it

0:42:30which is really nice when when you just

0:42:33don't want to have to make all of these

0:42:35decisions about what are we having every

0:42:37single night you know so it's really

0:42:38nice for that chatroom says the recipes

0:42:41are actually available online for free

0:42:42blue apron calm / cookbook and also

0:42:45their logo looks like totoro so there

0:42:46you go

0:42:47what market you're a spot right so all

0:42:50right so we should we we should do some

0:42:52follow-up and we have a fair bit so

0:42:54let's buckle up kids let's start with we

0:42:56talked about flex a little bit last

0:42:58episode in or maybe the episode 4 but

0:43:00regardless we got a lot of people

0:43:02writing in to ask have you tried infused

0:43:05for the apple TV and we'll have a link

0:43:06in the show notes the idea within infuse

0:43:09is that it's somewhat plex like in that

0:43:11it will autodiscover metadata about your

0:43:15your media collection so it will show

0:43:18you your list of movies with with movie

0:43:21posters and things of that nature but

0:43:23the real the real kick in the real the

0:43:27party trick that infuse has from what

0:43:29I've gathered is that it will actually

0:43:31do the transcoding on your device so

0:43:34really there's no

0:43:36there's no reason that you couldn't just

0:43:38sit a bunch of files on an undermanned

0:43:40on a underpowered synology and let

0:43:44infuse just look at it and then do the

0:43:46transcoding right on the appletv that is

0:43:49excellent and it sounds great i haven't

0:43:50tried it yet but it does sound good

0:43:52the problem I have with this though is

0:43:53that it doesn't solve a couple of the

0:43:54other problems that that I that flex

0:43:58does pics which is number one it doesn't

0:44:01give you external access to your media

0:44:03so one of the greatest pieces of plex is

0:44:06that you can get to your media from

0:44:07outside of your home if you set it up

0:44:09properly and secondly you can't share

0:44:12other people's libraries so like Marco

0:44:14and John and I we've all shared our

0:44:16libraries with each other so that Marco

0:44:19for example could stream one of the

0:44:21movies that i have been doing it all

0:44:22week him from my house to his house

0:44:26we've been watching through your top

0:44:27gear well right in the reason that

0:44:28hasn't worked for the last 24 hours is

0:44:30because I moved all my plex stuff to the

0:44:31imac that's now my trunk but anyway so

0:44:35yeah so it doesn't do that it doesn't do

0:44:37external access and doesn't sharing yeah

0:44:39I tried to infuse as soon as people

0:44:40suggested because i'll jump on top of

0:44:41anything like as soon as we talked about

0:44:42i don't know i was like many many shows

0:44:44are great if used by I immediately

0:44:46bought the ten-dollar like pro version

0:44:48whatever yes sure go come right now i'll

0:44:50give it a dry side on seeing you know

0:44:51because I got two recommendations from

0:44:53it from random strangers but the reason

0:44:56the whole reason i wanted it i'm trying

0:44:58to support the app economy the whole

0:44:59reason you're the one i had this file

0:45:03that i was trying to play that I had to

0:45:06eventually end up using my eyes when I

0:45:08use my imac is the flexor for because

0:45:10the imac is no problem transcoding it

0:45:11the Plex served from the imac to my

0:45:14appletv was the only thing that played

0:45:17this thing with all you know but played

0:45:20at all period but played smoothly and

0:45:21everything so i tried to use I mean look

0:45:23at those and that exact file which turns

0:45:25out is this is the info from mplayer so

0:45:27I don't know how to parse it but it's

0:45:29hevc which i think is h.264 particular

0:45:32profile 1920 x 1080 so 1080i don't know

0:45:36what I or pse misspeak it's a video file

0:45:3924 frames per second about 1,100

0:45:43kilobits per second to track 48

0:45:46kilohertz AAC audio

0:45:48the appletv can't play without

0:45:50stuttering so it's it's it's the it's in

0:45:53decoding on the device

0:45:55you can't handle this so i was sad

0:45:56because that was the one reason i bought

0:45:58it but aside from that it's a reasonable

0:46:01like wait like it Casey said if you have

0:46:03a whole bunch of folders full of video

0:46:06files sitting somewhere in your network

0:46:08this will go through the folders and

0:46:09play stuff for you and so I'm not sad

0:46:13that I partners that I am said that

0:46:14apparently their software combined with

0:46:18the wimpy eight relatively 28 cpu

0:46:22system-on-a-chip thing inside my appletv

0:46:24can't play this fairly demanding file

0:46:27and i already watched also i watch it on

0:46:29my iPad by the way what I did was I

0:46:30wanted to plex and finally I finally had

0:46:32to give in and say fine flex you can

0:46:35optimize this Court optimize it by Kyrie

0:46:38including into a smaller size and then I

0:46:40watched it on my TV and on my iPad over

0:46:41the course of a few days is that you

0:46:43said this was hevc video because that's

0:46:46h.265 that's kind of a big deal

0:46:48that's like that's it's very reasonable

0:46:50to not be strong enough to play that

0:46:52well that's probably doesn't have it

0:46:54doesn't have the hardware i was remember

0:46:55reading about some apple thing that

0:46:57actually has h.265 hardware but it isn't

0:47:00actually used but anyway yeah that would

0:47:02make sense in that like I infused

0:47:04probably does great because the aid has

0:47:07dedicated h.264 decode hardware but if

0:47:09it's not h.264 and instead of h.265 and

0:47:12is this magic doesn't have hardware for

0:47:14it or the hardware isn't enabled by

0:47:16apple's OS then you would have to be

0:47:18trying to draw on the cpu and I can

0:47:19understand why would choke to death

0:47:21yeah I'm i also should point out that

0:47:24just earlier today I listen to mac power

0:47:27users episode 2 99 which we will put a

0:47:30link in the show notes and if you've

0:47:32ever wanted a unbiased opinion about are

0:47:36certainly not by me opinion about plex

0:47:38if you've wondered how to get started

0:47:41with it if you've wondered what it what

0:47:43it brings to the table

0:47:44listen to back our users 299 is really

0:47:46great episode that goes on to all into

0:47:48plex

0:47:48so you should check that out here's one

0:47:50more drive-by complained about flex

0:47:51which I cannot believe that they don't

0:47:53do I just assume they did maybe I'm

0:47:54and yet so you you have a blog post

0:47:56where you can link in the show notes

0:47:57Casey about like introduction to plex

0:47:59that you did that a while ago like how

0:48:01to name your files linking to like the

0:48:02Plex file naming guide and figure out

0:48:04I'm like and I wondered when i read that

0:48:06the time like because I wasn't using

0:48:08flex that much like this seems weird me

0:48:10why is he doing this just because like

0:48:12if you want to have everything perfect

0:48:13just do it this way but like surely

0:48:15there's a feature in this thing where

0:48:16you can essentially just find some media

0:48:18that he didn't either a shrug your

0:48:20shoulders a tour has misidentified and

0:48:21say all you got it wrong and go in there

0:48:24and just type some random words in the

0:48:25search box until you find the surgeries

0:48:27all you want to go yes that one so like

0:48:29say you mislabeled star wars or

0:48:31something and it is confused about what

0:48:33it is you know I got well you don't know

0:48:35what this is because i have the the

0:48:36files named we're whatever so I'm just

0:48:38going to go in your search box and type

0:48:40star wars and see the 8000 results for

0:48:42star wars and find the one that is not

0:48:43the special edition but the original

0:48:451977 version just click on that one so

0:48:47yeah this is that one is that feature

0:48:49not exist and flex it exists I can't

0:48:51find it does i can't find it

0:48:53I could swear it does but I can't walk

0:48:55you through where it is because my imac

0:48:56is too much fuckin money maybe I haven't

0:48:59found it yet but every time I go to edit

0:49:00the metadata it's like you know if I

0:49:03name the file then yeah we'll figure it

0:49:05out if I don't name the file right all i

0:49:07can do is like a pic cover art to stop

0:49:08it is totally wrong about the metadata I

0:49:11can't do a search and say surely the

0:49:13database that you are using has this

0:49:15metadata and that you're just not

0:49:16finding the right one

0:49:17so rather than me editing the individual

0:49:19mandate which I don't want to do I just

0:49:20want to say let me do a search of your

0:49:23big database cool stuff like a pretty

0:49:25broad search and let me pick the blob of

0:49:27metadata that I'm telling you is this

0:49:28one so that I can manually fix

0:49:30everything that I had like so that if I

0:49:32didn't know how to label like some you

0:49:34know special of a show like a christmas

0:49:36special the show that's not part of any

0:49:38particular season I didn't know the

0:49:39secret season 0 weird you know

0:49:42convention they have to be like oh well

0:49:43let me just do a chronological certain

0:49:46search of the most recent episodes from

0:49:47this series and i will find whatever

0:49:50blob of metadata corresponds to this and

0:49:52then click on it will automatically

0:49:53label it's like season 0 I would never

0:49:55figure that out my

0:49:56anyway we still still working through my

0:49:59expertise

0:50:00yeah you know the thing with flexes its

0:50:02very opinionated about file names and

0:50:03file conventions but once you understand

0:50:06its opinions it's actually very simple

0:50:08to to work with and that's what my blog

0:50:10post was about i am almost positive the

0:50:12feature that you're talking about John

0:50:13about fixing mismatches i'm almost sure

0:50:16it's there but i don't want to say that

0:50:18for certainty because i can't try it

0:50:20right now because again my plex server

0:50:22is currently in the trunk of my car

0:50:23yeah i'll keep looking for it but uh the

0:50:26the thing with the opinionated naming

0:50:28its opinions are wrong so I refuse to

0:50:31comply I know the name is he may have

0:50:33read the documentation but there's no

0:50:35way in hell I'm putting a year in

0:50:36parenthesis at the end of my movies or

0:50:38television shows no and I object to

0:50:40season 0 I don't like for the record

0:50:44season 04 for TV shows and specials so

0:50:47like the top your polar special for

0:50:49example would be a season 0 entry anyway

0:50:52uh we have a fair bit of feedback about

0:50:53Swift and default final and and i'm

0:50:56stunned I'm flabbergasted

0:50:58it appears that Marco has done some

0:51:00homework and put something in the show

0:51:01notes I flat an email yeah wow yeah i

0:51:04hit three keys to make this happen

0:51:05are you okay do you feel right no all

0:51:10right so this was a feedback from nick

0:51:12my caucus from a longer email is very

0:51:15thoughtful memory just a quote here he

0:51:17says we're talking about Swift basically

0:51:19having having classes be default final

0:51:22as as a proposed change the language

0:51:24during the revolution that's kind of a

0:51:26debate raging on right now and this

0:51:28would mean basically that by default

0:51:29classes could be subclassed that you

0:51:32could supply seems to exist in the

0:51:33language but rather but the default

0:51:35unless the class was specially marked

0:51:37with whatever keyword would say you know

0:51:39extensible or whatever that the default

0:51:41will be u cant some class things so nick

0:51:43says the late eighties and early

0:51:45nineties with the heyday for

0:51:47object-oriented programming language

0:51:48designed in that time like c++ get to

0:51:51see in Java it was taken as a given that

0:51:53subclassing was a good thing and should

0:51:54be used pervasively however a couple of

0:51:56decades of experiences with such

0:51:58languages has led to two key insight i

0:52:00think we've learned as an industry the

0:52:01first met in order to write classes that

0:52:03can be robustly extended through

0:52:05inheritance allowing both the base and

0:52:07derived classes to evolve with minimal

0:52:09risk of breaking each other

0:52:10see also the fragile base class problem

0:52:11careful consideration should be given at

0:52:14the time the classes designed and

0:52:15written i think this argues for default

0:52:17close

0:52:18I think we've learned even more

0:52:19important lesson though which is the

0:52:21class inheritance should be thought of

0:52:22as a limited tool to solve a prescribed

0:52:24set of problems not a general mechanism

0:52:27for code reuse so this makes a lot of

0:52:29sense to me like this i totally agree

0:52:31with Nick you know I I think I i kinda

0:52:33breeze by Latin we talked about this

0:52:35last week a quick statement basically

0:52:37saying like I think we've seen a lot of

0:52:38anti-patterns and and dysfunction that

0:52:40subclassing everywhere can bring and

0:52:43some of the challenges of bringing some

0:52:44other i think i agree that that you know

0:52:46what we've seen is that it basically

0:52:48shouldn't be the default thats

0:52:51everywhere and the java people will will

0:52:54have to find a different way to program

0:52:56i guess and and they can take it and the

0:52:58PHP people have to find something to

0:52:59copy it was actually a pretty pretty old

0:53:02no-good of wisdom the whole that the the

0:53:05downsides of subclassing and you can

0:53:08tell it's old because objective-c is in

0:53:12many ways a reaction to it objective-c

0:53:13is like nineteen eighty nine ish like it

0:53:15is itself a very old language and not

0:53:18objective c so much more like the

0:53:19frameworks built on a napkin or whatever

0:53:21it was called I think maybe was always

0:53:23called app but anyway the next the next

0:53:25step frameworks especially the UI

0:53:27frameworks use delegation a lot a lot

0:53:30more than contemporary frameworks for

0:53:33doing similar things that were all about

0:53:34subclassing they were either you know

0:53:36functional much because they don't have

0:53:37object classes at all or they were

0:53:39enamored of the idea of subclassing but

0:53:42the next api's and frameworks heavily

0:53:45used the delegation patterns to avoid

0:53:48subclassing to say this is a better way

0:53:50that way we have understandable

0:53:51individual objects that just use each

0:53:54other to do things and the way you alter

0:53:57behavior is by giving it a different

0:53:59delegate I mean how that's essentially

0:54:00Marco correct me if I'm wrong

0:54:03the the next equivalent of like you know

0:54:05you don't write a main routine there is

0:54:07a main routine obviously but your app

0:54:09delegate is basically your application

0:54:11am I am i correct in my vague

0:54:13understanding of the cocoa frameworks

0:54:16yeah you don't subclass your application

0:54:18like you right you provide a delegate

0:54:20that conforms to the protocol and you

0:54:22get messages delivered there

0:54:23and if you don't pay attention that

0:54:25blows over time and eventually all of

0:54:27the code in your app is in the app

0:54:28delegate well then that's like reading

0:54:30all your coat and main like a rookie

0:54:32mistake but yeah but yeah but like so

0:54:34even even like the the very simplest

0:54:37starting point of your program is done

0:54:39through delegation and lots of the UI

0:54:41frameworks are done through delegation

0:54:42because and then you know delegation

0:54:44eventually not not specific delegation

0:54:49but I trying to avoid inheritance can

0:54:51lead you to a sort of be the inversion

0:54:55of control pattern which kind of weird

0:54:56nasty speaking of java where you're

0:54:58trying to use composition instead of

0:55:00inheritance but you want to give people

0:55:02access to the different pieces they get

0:55:04composed into the hole and so your

0:55:07entire program is dictating what things

0:55:09are composed into what to get your

0:55:11classes the parts we need to go anyway

0:55:13any any sort of program code reuse

0:55:16essentially technology a code reuse

0:55:18technique whether its inheritance of

0:55:19delegation or composition or any other

0:55:21patterns in the little bit pattern books

0:55:22can go awry but i think pretty early on

0:55:25in the history of your program the

0:55:28downsides of inheritance were clear and

0:55:31anything that came after that sort of

0:55:33understanding has tried to do something

0:55:35different including the things that were

0:55:38the precursors to the frameworks that

0:55:40apple now uses but we were talking about

0:55:42in the context of like even a napkin you

0:55:43like it and all these frameworks that

0:55:44use delegation patterns as application

0:55:47programmers often you subclass either

0:55:50because that's the intended use of the

0:55:51things still in some cases or because

0:55:53you like that thing but you just wanted

0:55:55to be a little bit different or you need

0:55:57to just ride this bitch is out you know

0:55:59like because it's possible it is a tool

0:56:02that's in the tool belt of programmers

0:56:03to get what they want and frameworks

0:56:05whether or not the framework really ever

0:56:06intended you to subclass that thing

0:56:08yep alright so another thing that was

0:56:11written in andrea's hartal mom he made

0:56:14some great points about mocking using

0:56:16Swift he said there's another unforeseen

0:56:18consequence of going final by default

0:56:20test that could have used mocks to

0:56:22ensure their framework method is was

0:56:24called can't do that anymore this is

0:56:26because much reliance subclassing to

0:56:28replace all API functionality with no

0:56:29ops i'm not going to get into what

0:56:31marketing is if you're not familiar with

0:56:33it but suffice to say that

0:56:35the last couple of years I've really

0:56:37gotten into unit testing like formal

0:56:40unit testing and mocking is kind of your

0:56:42path to happiness there and it's what

0:56:45really made me understand why do for

0:56:47designing two interfaces or protocols if

0:56:49you will is really kind of the right

0:56:50idea and that's that's that's not an

0:56:53insignificant problem if this is the way

0:56:56that Swift goes so I thought that was

0:56:57very very astute point it seems like

0:57:00it's not a significant problem to me

0:57:01because I assume there would always be a

0:57:04compiler mode that says disregard the

0:57:06final keyword you know me like fruits

0:57:07for when you when you run your unit

0:57:09tests don't see anything up his final

0:57:12because it shouldn't it shouldn't affect

0:57:13functionality it maybe you disable some

0:57:15optimizations and maybe you wouldn't

0:57:16have a bug for bug compatible thing in

0:57:19terms of maybe like a bug in the

0:57:20compiler that causes the optimization

0:57:21goes the ride but it seems trivial to me

0:57:24to have a compiler option that says you

0:57:28just ignore final entirely like don't

0:57:31see a lot of any classes or change the

0:57:34default is or something like that that

0:57:36allows you to mock in your unit tests

0:57:38yeah yeah that's an interesting point I

0:57:40don't know how that that would be

0:57:41handled moving on Neal Cronin was one of

0:57:44the few people to write in and point out

0:57:46the error in what I or potentially earn

0:57:48what I'd said i don't recall exactly how

0:57:49i phrase things but it sounds like I

0:57:51probably got a little wrong I'm he

0:57:53pointed out that C sharp methods are

0:57:56final by default but classes or not and

0:58:00so I think I might have interspersed

0:58:02classes and methods a little bit last

0:58:04episode but to be absolutely clear

0:58:05classes are not final by default but

0:58:08methods are so that's my bad on that

0:58:10will have a link in the show notes to

0:58:12that also a chris d i'm not gonna even

0:58:17try to pronounce your surname i come

0:58:19back and i go with some back

0:58:21ok you go i pointed out that you can do

0:58:24something like final objective c with a

0:58:27couple of the

0:58:29fancy compiler directives you put enough

0:58:32underscores and anything is possible c

0:58:34c++ underscore underscore attribute

0:58:37underscore underscore double open paren

0:58:39zob see subclassing restricted double

0:58:42close parenthese yes there are so many

0:58:44attributes you can add you can annotate

0:58:46all your things with no ability

0:58:48information for this with bridging and

0:58:50you can say objective-c subclassing

0:58:53restricted that's from jesse Squires

0:58:55gave that little attribute yikes

0:58:57goodness

0:58:59alright and then one of you guys wanted

0:59:01to talk about rust vs Swift vs go

0:59:04yeah those me uh the rest people have

0:59:06come out to defend the honor of their

0:59:09language and to differentiate it from

0:59:10those other things go and switch we're

0:59:12talking about the languages that are

0:59:14kind of in a little group of these

0:59:15static compiled languages with an eye

0:59:20towards being a better c++ without all

0:59:23the downsides c or c++ you know things

0:59:26like Swift essentially and Benjamin sog

0:59:31oh yes points out that rust I mean you

0:59:34mentioned the show but his amp has

0:59:36emphasized by a lot of people trust is

0:59:38not garbage collected going to go use

0:59:40the garbage collector runtime Swift of

0:59:41course uses reference counting that

0:59:43means their programs you can write

0:59:44address that you couldn't write and

0:59:45Swift ago such as graphics intensive

0:59:47game a browser enter an OS device driver

0:59:49or a garbage collector or anything that

0:59:51has to interact with the language that

0:59:52has its own garbage collector now I

0:59:54would imagine the Swift people at the

0:59:56very least would object to the idea that

0:59:58you can't write a graphics intensive

0:59:59game

0:59:59game

1:00:00aim your browser engine or no it's

1:00:02because of the state of goals of Swift

1:00:03oh yeah and i would even object to his

1:00:06characterization of garbage pile of

1:00:07reference counting as a form of garbage

1:00:09collection I don't think I don't think I

1:00:10agree with that but he's talking about

1:00:11is like a my understanding and I'm sure

1:00:13we'll get more email about this breasts

1:00:15because I have enough on my homework is

1:00:16that the way rest gets around not having

1:00:18a garbage collector and not doing

1:00:20reference counting is at compile-time it

1:00:22figures out the the what it has to do

1:00:25with memory rather than a Triton you

1:00:28know another was not like that the dance

1:00:31competition you know we know it's like

1:00:32it's some point you have to go wander

1:00:34all of your stuff and clean out the

1:00:35garbage and that takes time and even if

1:00:37you do another thread that some point

1:00:40you may need to pause the the the

1:00:42program and if you don't need deposit

1:00:43you have a pause for garbage like

1:00:44there's always some kind of overhead of

1:00:46having to do the garbage collection at

1:00:49while your program is running and the

1:00:51sweat solution and the vector Susan

1:00:54solution for that matter what the

1:00:55solution is figure out what you do use

1:00:59reference counting to figure out when

1:01:00things aren't needed anymore and put the

1:01:02reference count put the stuff that deals

1:01:04with the reference counted in line with

1:01:06your program so while your program is

1:01:08running it will do this thing to this

1:01:09thing increments record try and do this

1:01:11thing to this thing this thing decrement

1:01:12this reference count like market goes to

1:01:140 you can you know get rid of that

1:01:16memory and you know so it's it's in line

1:01:19in your program its actual code

1:01:20execution is not another thread running

1:01:22a garbage collector or anything like

1:01:23that it's like it's as if you had

1:01:25written in your program in c policy

1:01:26running Malcolm free right you know when

1:01:28you can free the memory because that's

1:01:29when you write the free thing and you

1:01:31know when you're allocating memory right

1:01:32Malik and you have to figure out you

1:01:34know it's it's reference counting but

1:01:36it's in line and so in some code you

1:01:38don't want this bookkeeping of

1:01:40incrementing and decrementing this

1:01:42number to keep track of how many

1:01:43references there are you just don't like

1:01:46when you're writing the the kernel of an

1:01:47operating system and see most of the

1:01:49time you're not implementing your

1:01:51reference counting system you're just

1:01:52putting that the malakin right place and

1:01:53putting three is in the right place or

1:01:54if you're in a particular part of the

1:01:57colonel you can use my locker free

1:01:59you've got to do everything with wire

1:02:00down memory and so you can't have

1:02:03anything having to you know like it's

1:02:04not it's not appropriate to have

1:02:06automated memory management in that way

1:02:09i would imagine the answer Swift is that

1:02:13you can write those parts of the program

1:02:14if you understand enough out about us

1:02:16with managers memory even though you

1:02:18don't see any of the memory management

1:02:20you can do it in such a way that you

1:02:21know that all of the silly reference

1:02:24counting increment decrement stuff will

1:02:26be removed by the optimizer as no ops

1:02:29because you know exactly how you know

1:02:30how things are going to get sorted out

1:02:32and this thing will run straight through

1:02:33without any memory access stuff but

1:02:35still rust is heavily focused on the

1:02:36idea that it does not use a garbage

1:02:38collector and it doesn't use reference

1:02:40counting so it's really trying to be

1:02:41like c and c++ they both of them do not

1:02:44have garbage collections and they don't

1:02:45use reference count unless you read it

1:02:46yourself so Russ is definitely a closer

1:02:49closer match to a replacement for those

1:02:52programs and I right do believe that

1:02:54there are probably some programs

1:02:55especially now with such as young it is

1:02:58that could be written in rust that could

1:03:00not be written as efficiently and Swift

1:03:02but long-term that I think that will be

1:03:04quite a battle all right anything else

1:03:07about Swift please know right how about

1:03:11a magsafe and USB seaports last episode

1:03:15i think we're talking about the macbook

1:03:17one connector with that magsafe adapter

1:03:19that fits in little USBC port on the

1:03:22side and whether it was really necessary

1:03:23none of us had macbook ones that we had

1:03:26tripped over or yanked the cord out of

1:03:27and I said I thought that nobody had

1:03:29done that experiment well one freshman

1:03:32could do the experiment but did delve

1:03:34into the science behind USBC connector

1:03:37and to try to figure out with thought

1:03:40experiment and some basic physics

1:03:42calculations and some numbers from the

1:03:44USB spec what would happen if you

1:03:46tripped over a macbook one chord it was

1:03:48plugged in as compared to what would

1:03:51happen if it had a maximum connector and

1:03:52the conclusion of this article which

1:03:54again is an older article might have

1:03:55been even before the macro without but

1:03:57had been announced obviously was that I

1:03:59your laptop will fall on the ground then

1:04:02yes you totally can pull a macbook one

1:04:05off the surface onto the ground by

1:04:07tripping over the cord just based on the

1:04:09forces involved and the speed of the

1:04:13banking and the angle and all these

1:04:15other things you can read the article to

1:04:16find out

1:04:17perhaps not as good as actually doing

1:04:19the experiment perhaps not as good as a

1:04:21bunch of people home macbook ones having

1:04:23their children tripped over the cord and

1:04:24find out what happens but so far no one

1:04:26has written in about that happening so

1:04:27all we have is this speculation by glenn

1:04:29fleischmann there you go there's an

1:04:30answer

1:04:31alright and why don't you tell us about

1:04:33up there and whether or not they use AWS

1:04:35yeah just a quick follow-up last time

1:04:37someone it's a used AWS and up there

1:04:40replied and Twitter no we don't we host

1:04:41our own stuff and so a couple people

1:04:43went back and forth and we're trying to

1:04:44figure out well then why is up there

1:04:46connecting to AWS and theory was that it

1:04:49was because of crashlytics was a crash

1:04:51reporting thing and up there confirmed

1:04:53they do use graphics and crashlytics

1:04:55said if you use graphics you will

1:04:58connect AWS so there's your answer to

1:05:00why up there is connected w assets for

1:05:03crashlytics excellent that's the magic

1:05:06of twitter by the way we're like random

1:05:08podcast that we do random listen to the

1:05:10podcast use some use little snitch

1:05:12software to say they saw connecting AWS

1:05:14then the three companies that replied 3

1:05:17sort of carpet Twitter accounts the

1:05:18little snatch account the crash linux

1:05:20account on the up their account the

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1:07:25so you went to a tech talk yeah i went

1:07:27yesterday to the appletv tech-talk in

1:07:30New York so the tech talks are basically

1:07:32Apple goes around the country with the

1:07:34developer relations team not maybe not

1:07:36every year maybe every couple years it

1:07:38depends when they can do it but they

1:07:40basically said the team around kind of

1:07:42as like a halfway point between wwd seas

1:07:45and they put on these these little like

1:07:47it's basically a one-day mini wdc that

1:07:51is usually focused on just one

1:07:54relatively new platform so i went to a

1:07:56few years ago just for iOS i believe

1:07:59last year no matter and watch when I

1:08:00forget but this year doing appletv Tech

1:08:03Talks and so it's it's free and one day

1:08:06you sign up you just picked by lottery

1:08:08and it's all it's not a bunch of cities

1:08:10around the world and you just go into my

1:08:12co you know like a hotel you know

1:08:13meeting room or whatever like it looks

1:08:15exactly like many WTC it'sit's great and

1:08:19very well presented your high-quality

1:08:20presentations but only like a few

1:08:24hundred people in attendance rather than

1:08:255,000 in the giant Moscow new center so

1:08:28like it's it's a nice small scale you

1:08:30actually have to like talk to the apple

1:08:31people and meet other developers on and

1:08:33on a nicer smaller shorter and way less

1:08:37expensive scale so i went and it was

1:08:39great I I still and not

1:08:43entirely convinced i want to be

1:08:44developing for the apple TV yet i would

1:08:47like to do it sometime

1:08:48I'm not sure that time is now I'm very

1:08:50excited to develop for it i just don't

1:08:53know I i don't i'm not seeing the the

1:08:57market demand for it yet really

1:08:59so if you really want overcast on the

1:09:00appletv I guess let me know but but i

1:09:03I've right now I haven't I just haven't

1:09:05heard from people who really want that

1:09:06and other things i think there are more

1:09:09important for now but I I do look

1:09:11forward to it is a great platform be

1:09:12like that the talks are with the talks

1:09:14were all about basically video playback

1:09:18and games like that was like the main

1:09:20areas they focused on because that is

1:09:22what the apple TV is best at video

1:09:24playback and games as an audio only

1:09:26podcast app I'm not sure there's much

1:09:28for me to do there besides get people's

1:09:31audio into their like home theater

1:09:33systems which people do occasionally

1:09:34request but doesn't seem as much there's

1:09:37much demand for me there but we will see

1:09:38iOS 9.3 and TV OS whatever is it might

1:09:41also point three the the new beta that

1:09:43we talked about they added a podcast app

1:09:45like their own a podcast app finally so

1:09:47I guess we'll see like if a lot of

1:09:50people use that and start hearing people

1:09:51saying I i switch back to the podcast

1:09:53app so i could play my appletv like it

1:09:56that if that happens a lot i will

1:09:57definitely respond to that and i'll make

1:09:59it happen but I I don't I I think

1:10:01eventually it might but I don't think

1:10:04the times yet so I guess we'll see if

1:10:06you're like somebody who makes the app

1:10:08for a video owner like like a lot of

1:10:11people there i talk to like they're they

1:10:13were like the iOS programmer on iOS

1:10:15programming team for a TV network or

1:10:18something like that like you know where

1:10:19that makes sense like for them to be

1:10:21making apps that makes total sense but

1:10:23for me I'm not sure makes sense it but

1:10:26we'll see anyway so i think we should

1:10:29honestly talked about iOS 9.3 what do

1:10:31there's a just going to second your

1:10:33endorsement of tech talks I've only been

1:10:35to one but it was a there was always

1:10:37that is like a little mini WWDC a worse

1:10:40venue

1:10:40yeah it but it's free and it's one day

1:10:42it's great with slightly slightly worse

1:10:45food obviously the food here script was

1:10:46better by a lot but things have changed

1:10:48i guess probably depends on the hotel

1:10:50like maybe have to use the hotels

1:10:51catering but the 1i went to was that is

1:10:53terrible little box lunches which

1:10:55granted the box on his WBC aren't that

1:10:57great either but these are even worse

1:10:58but notice we have like we had a hapa

1:11:00faith and and I mean it helped i didn't

1:11:02i didn't even try the coffee because

1:11:03there was a Catholic grumpy downstairs

1:11:05so I just went to the cafe grumpy cat

1:11:07excellent coffee there anyway so yeah

1:11:129.3 so this was weird very weird Monday

1:11:17yesterday for anyway this week earlier

1:11:19this week Apple unveiled a a page on

1:11:22their website called iOS 9.3 preview so

1:11:26and they released a I guess beta 1 or

1:11:28anything like that but they release beta

1:11:301 of iOS 9.3 whatever version of watch I

1:11:34think corresponds to that and then TV OS

1:11:36the same you know whatever version

1:11:37corresponds to that and so if there's a

1:11:41few very interesting about this so first

1:11:44of all apple has never given like this

1:11:47like public route public unveiling of a

1:11:50beta OS before and in a marketing way

1:11:53they do and i was ten my get a certain

1:11:55point in the OS 10 beta release cycle

1:11:57for many many years now they've had a

1:11:59page it's basically apple.com / OS with

1:12:02relax / preview or some other word and

1:12:06that shows you the features of the

1:12:07upcoming as yet unreleased this even

1:12:09before they have the public business

1:12:10they wouldn't do it for the very first

1:12:11build very often they wait until like it

1:12:13was a WC now somebody would have an

1:12:16entire section of their site dedicated

1:12:17to the OS that you cannot yet download

1:12:19the weird thing for iOS is I don't know

1:12:22they've ever done for iOS don't pay that

1:12:23much attention but they did it but

1:12:25pretty much simultaneously with the beta

1:12:27released to developers so it's not like

1:12:29developers would go to a public website

1:12:31to see the features of the baby that you

1:12:33can adjust able to download now

1:12:35yeah but it'sit's great i mean and you

1:12:37know what would usually happen in the

1:12:39past iOS is like the baby would come out

1:12:41and then immediately all the rumor sites

1:12:43have people digging through it and then

1:12:45like within hours of being released

1:12:47rumors that have like 10 articles about

1:12:49each little minor change somewhere in

1:12:51the settings screen or and after Newt

1:12:53week or whatever so it was like so this

1:12:56makes sense of the way for Apple

1:12:57basically just kinda own that and

1:12:59control the message and and have you

1:13:02have it be a proper

1:13:04marketing handling of this kind of event

1:13:05rather than just letting the rumor try

1:13:07to dictate everything so that's good you

1:13:10know it's it's kinda like legalizing pot

1:13:11it's like if you want to like discourage

1:13:13the bad behavior like just kept you take

1:13:15take away the value you know the apple

1:13:17just here here's everything is new here

1:13:19you go you know

1:13:20well not everything that's no I still

1:13:21hope that I assume the rumor sight sound

1:13:23all that is that little change that

1:13:25setting screen apples not going to put

1:13:26it on their giant preview page with the

1:13:28wife is just label of how much data is

1:13:30used

1:13:30yeah or stuff like that like there's

1:13:31still plenty of fodder for oversized

1:13:33into but they hit the highlights yet but

1:13:35it all yeah it's plenty of boring father

1:13:37and for them to dig into an apple

1:13:39wow that's that's that's their core the

1:13:41core audience needs to know tell me

1:13:43every screen that changed it ain't the

1:13:44spacing on this label one of one of the

1:13:48most high profile changes they've made

1:13:50is called nightshift and apple is the

1:13:54very first people to ever come up with

1:13:56this idea of changing the color balance

1:14:00on your display changing the white

1:14:02balance so that it's cool cool

1:14:05temperature and what we consider now to

1:14:07be neutral during the day and then at

1:14:09night it's slowly changes to a warmer

1:14:12color temperature so you don't have your

1:14:14eyes be shown blue light that keeps you

1:14:17awake and makes you sleep worse so it's

1:14:19slowly warms cold temperature on the

1:14:20display until you go to bed and then

1:14:23change the time at the next day I wish

1:14:25this is available on my mac at 44 years

1:14:28I've wanted something like this and no

1:14:29one has ever thought of it before with

1:14:31only your tone of voice makes me think

1:14:33you suddenly support patents

1:14:34yeah a lot of people that before but you

1:14:37can't like in ideas out there for

1:14:39anybody to take so I really hope I i

1:14:42forgot i even did have a pattern or

1:14:43whatever but this is not this is an

1:14:45obvious enough idea that I would not

1:14:47call this is sherlock and I would not

1:14:49call this a case for apple is taking it

1:14:51an application wholesale like you know

1:14:54well they want an application and making

1:14:56their own equivalent his name his name

1:14:59based on the same themes the original

1:15:01application looks like the other

1:15:02application that works like they're this

1:15:03is not an application this is a fairly

1:15:06simple idea that was not invented i'm

1:15:08sure by the creators of the flex

1:15:11application that you're referring to

1:15:12yes yeah totally okay with Apple taking

1:15:16because it's a good idea and I

1:15:17don't think anyone should know that idea

1:15:18even if someone actually does well i

1:15:21think i might disagree with both of

1:15:22those points but so let's so yeah I was

1:15:25being sarcastic obviously what we're

1:15:26talking about is there's been this

1:15:28application called flux felt fwx and

1:15:32it's been available on computers like

1:15:33forever and and they had like an iOS

1:15:37kind of hack version where like you

1:15:40couldn't they couldn't put in the app

1:15:41store so they did like a silent where

1:15:43you could download like a binary library

1:15:45in with a project into Xcode and have it

1:15:48installed into your phone and they did

1:15:51this back in november and it got

1:15:54thousands or millions of it there are

1:15:56tons of downloads and then on houses on

1:15:59member 12 2 months ago they said hey

1:16:03they posted saying that Apple had

1:16:06contacted them and had said that the the

1:16:09iOS download of their of their kind of

1:16:11side loaded app here was in violation of

1:16:13developer agreement and so this method

1:16:15of install is no longer available

1:16:18Apple has indicated this should not

1:16:19continue so they don't really say like

1:16:23if Apple like legally threaten them or

1:16:26anything because technically they could

1:16:29have continued to distribute it probably

1:16:31and so this was all just two months ago

1:16:34and then all of a sudden now in what is

1:16:37the next major iOS feature update that

1:16:41next update has a feature that is a

1:16:44direct copy of what this does

1:16:45so I wonder if there's actually if they

1:16:48actually made some kind of small deal

1:16:49where maybe Apple said like we don't

1:16:51want you doing this

1:16:52shut it down and we're gonna do it

1:16:53ourselves and we won't sue you or shut

1:16:56it down will give you a small amount of

1:16:58money and we'll do it ourselves and you

1:16:59won't say anything you know that it's

1:17:01probably something like that but the

1:17:02only reason we have to give him some

1:17:04money is if they have a super dumb

1:17:05patent on this idea right there's two

1:17:07separate issues here one being mean to

1:17:10the makers of flux and not letting them

1:17:11use sideloading to this not lying side

1:17:13loading at all like that's all separate

1:17:14issue of like a apple why is the only

1:17:16way to be able to get application of

1:17:18devices to the appstore what about a way

1:17:22that you won't complain about that

1:17:24expert users can use not all people are

1:17:26going to use it no one's going to

1:17:27download

1:17:27skoda build their own thing inside like

1:17:29only you know only the nerds are going

1:17:31to do a why not just let that go

1:17:32that is a separate issue the separate

1:17:34issue from is it ok for Apple to take

1:17:38this idea that again i think the

1:17:40metroplex probably did not invent I of

1:17:43changing the color temperature display

1:17:45based on the time of day and incorporate

1:17:47that into their OS for those their most

1:17:50popular platform that seems like a

1:17:51no-brainer slam dunk in the only thing

1:17:53that Apple trip across is if someone has

1:17:55a super dumb patent on have to pay

1:17:56somebody for I had no idea about those

1:17:58the galleries but i think the whole

1:17:59system as well as stupid I'm totally

1:18:01okay with Apple incorporating this idea

1:18:03because it's a good idea and because

1:18:05nobody should on this idea I first of

1:18:07all I i think the way they're doing it

1:18:08just the timing of this and the way they

1:18:10came down so hard on flux and then

1:18:12immediately made their own thing I think

1:18:14that that makes apple look like a jerk

1:18:15really make their own thing or what they

1:18:17already making it to have they aren't

1:18:19like how long is this feature been you

1:18:21know again fluxes an old application and

1:18:23they're probably applications before but

1:18:25i don't think the timing is they saw

1:18:27people sideloading flux and then they

1:18:28said all we got to get on that and

1:18:31decided to add the feature it seems like

1:18:32the type of thing that might have been

1:18:33in the works for a while but who knows

1:18:35honestly i disagree i think it's exactly

1:18:36it's it's a simple enough feature that

1:18:39is exactly what probably happened

1:18:40alright guys so even if they did it what

1:18:42then what difference does it make like

1:18:43the someone saw the idea this is this is

1:18:46a thing that users want again separate

1:18:48from the notion of telling flux we can't

1:18:50do it because that I agree is kind of

1:18:51turkey and annoying right

1:18:53teleflex they can't do it is separate

1:18:54from the idea of well it's a good idea

1:18:56we should build and because that's

1:18:57exactly how they should work if there's

1:18:58something that's a really popular idea

1:18:59that is very much a system-level thing

1:19:02which i'm amazed the fuck could even do

1:19:03what they did because it seemed so much

1:19:04like a system-level thing right that

1:19:07should be built in the operating system

1:19:08and how do you find those things you

1:19:09think of them yourself or you see that

1:19:11there's lots of user demand for this

1:19:12type of thing a lot of people are

1:19:13interested in this feature we should

1:19:15build it into the stupid OS and so they

1:19:17do like I'm not saying Apple shouldn't

1:19:19have been allowed to do this or that

1:19:20they shouldn't even made me I'm not even

1:19:22saying they shouldn't have done it but

1:19:23the the the timing of it the way they

1:19:26did it and the timing of it i think is

1:19:27distasteful and and makes them look

1:19:29pretty jerky I i disagree i don't think

1:19:31they look any more or less like the

1:19:33jerks the thing that makes them look

1:19:34like jerks is not letting them sideload

1:19:36incorporating the future they always

1:19:38make them look like smart OS spenders

1:19:40don't think it makes them look like

1:19:41jerks i don't think there's any time I

1:19:43don't think they even said I we exactly

1:19:45copied this we were inspired by flux and

1:19:48if they came out publicly and said the

1:19:49story you're surmising is true i still

1:19:51think that would be fine because I think

1:19:52that like that's this is a consequence

1:19:54of the idea that people not owning ideas

1:19:56like you want people not on ideas but it

1:19:58still seems distasteful to you that

1:20:00someone came up with this thing and that

1:20:02like the day you know immediately copied

1:20:04it from them it's not there's nothing

1:20:05you know it's they didn't own it its

1:20:07it's the transfer of ideas is the reason

1:20:09the reason I at least mm against pats is

1:20:11the idea that someone will have an idea

1:20:13another person will hear that idea and

1:20:14said that's a good idea and take that

1:20:16idea and run with it and like it's not

1:20:18there's 22 own and there's no copying

1:20:21going on it to share anyway whatever

1:20:23hippie-dippie stuff i should point out

1:20:25like I did a very similar feature

1:20:27instapaper like five years ago

1:20:29look it's like this is not new it's not

1:20:31like i said it's not it's not a new idea

1:20:33to computing is not a new idea to like

1:20:36non computing related lights like the

1:20:38whole white theoretical is probably some

1:20:39study many many many years ago about the

1:20:42color temperature and light if I can

1:20:44sleep patterns that all this is spun out

1:20:45from but yeah like I don't and that's

1:20:49why I fear if I remember I don't know if

1:20:51someone send us the link i fear that

1:20:52flux actually does have a patent is

1:20:54because seriously like it should not be

1:20:56not be patentable period and even under

1:20:59the the route the rules are current

1:21:01patent system has been rejected based on

1:21:02prior art but you know I've never had

1:21:04doesn't do anything but anyway so I do

1:21:07want to get into slightly a discussion

1:21:09of the the assumption or the scientific

1:21:12basis of this so so first of all the

1:21:15just to clarify when we say change the

1:21:17color temperature for anybody who

1:21:18doesn't know if you ever seen somebody

1:21:20by a CFL or LED light bulb that looks

1:21:23really blue when you put in the house

1:21:25especially at night but this is kind or

1:21:27if you have one that was like way too

1:21:29yellow or orange your kind of seeing

1:21:31that seeing the issues of color balance

1:21:33in our expectations so basically in the

1:21:36middle today during daylight daylight

1:21:38colored light is you know more more

1:21:41towards that the blue end of the color

1:21:43balance spectrum the way we could only

1:21:45think about it and then at night things

1:21:48like fires and cold streetlights

1:21:51and incandescent bulbs those we think of

1:21:54as as I especially like the bulbs we

1:21:56think i was making like white light but

1:21:57in reality it's really most it's more

1:22:00it's more yellow tinted then daylight is

1:22:02and so are our eyes adjust for this

1:22:05camera just for that's what this is

1:22:06about white balances and cameras our

1:22:08eyes adjust for this and so we think

1:22:10we're sitting in a room lit by slightly

1:22:12yellow incandescent lights in you know

1:22:14at nighttime when it's dark outside

1:22:16we don't think of it as being a yellow

1:22:18light we think of it as being a neutral

1:22:20white light but then if you see

1:22:21something that is neutral color like

1:22:24daylight it looks blue to you by

1:22:26comparison because you aren't you

1:22:27adjusted to that are you anyway the the

1:22:30the principle behind this is that your

1:22:32computer screens they don't change their

1:22:34color tone without this you know they

1:22:36don't change their color tone throughout

1:22:36the day so that what looks like a

1:22:38neutral white color balance during the

1:22:40day on a computer screen does look

1:22:42bluish and/or you know 22 bright it

1:22:45could be perceived as its kind of tricky

1:22:46but you know it looks like too harsh or

1:22:48too blue or too bright in like a

1:22:50dimly-lit nighttime room for the most

1:22:54part and and the idea here is that this

1:22:56can confuse your body into into not

1:22:59preparing for sleep or not not sleeping

1:23:02as well or something like that and I've

1:23:07looked into I've tried to see what the

1:23:10scientific basis for this is because the

1:23:12idea is that if you can if you can make

1:23:14the screen shift its color temperature

1:23:17into the warm area so basically make

1:23:20your maker computing devices change

1:23:22their own white balance along with what

1:23:24your what's going on in your house and

1:23:25around you in your environment so that

1:23:27in the daytime they're neutral and and

1:23:29you know what might consider like a

1:23:30bluish or new or cold white but then at

1:23:33night they shifted everything it's

1:23:34tinted yellow via the idea that will

1:23:37help you sleep

1:23:38I'm not entirely sure that the evidence

1:23:41I've seen so far proves that I i think

1:23:44it's it's a good theory it might be true

1:23:46the studies that are cited everywhere

1:23:48mostly seemed to indicate that

1:23:51brightness of light is important so it

1:23:55you know it might not be important to

1:23:57change your lights to be more yellow at

1:23:59night it might just be important to

1:24:01avoid bright screens at night and and

1:24:04using bright screen

1:24:05like in bed or before bed or whatever

1:24:07that I think makes it from from the

1:24:10actual suitable to find which is pretty

1:24:12few and far between but that's the flux

1:24:14has a good list of them bright light

1:24:16emitting devices are a problem to use

1:24:19late at night for this purpose but it

1:24:21doesn't necessarily follow that changing

1:24:24the color temperature of those screens

1:24:26fixes that problem the studies i'm

1:24:28looking at like the one that focused

1:24:30most recently on that public national

1:24:33academy of sciences anyway i read that

1:24:34one that was like you know ipad vs book

1:24:36and it's like if you read an ipad for

1:24:38four hours first before bed person if

1:24:40you read a book before I before going to

1:24:41bed like the iPad users measurably had

1:24:44like worse sleep and and related issues

1:24:47I i thought at first like you know maybe

1:24:49he's measuring like if you're like

1:24:50bouncing around with apps that's

1:24:51engaging you're bringing a different way

1:24:53but know that it sounded too controlled

1:24:54for that they had people watching to

1:24:56make sure you actually reading a book

1:24:57but it's like if you're staring at an

1:24:59ipad screen for before bed was reading a

1:25:00book reading the book is better but they

1:25:02didn't test if you start an ipad screen

1:25:04with neutral color temperature versus

1:25:07one that is slowly shifting itself

1:25:09yellow they didn't say that was better

1:25:10so it seems like this is two separate

1:25:13things that that the that this the

1:25:15studies that have been done so far show

1:25:17that bright lights at night can hurt

1:25:20your sleeping and also we think it's

1:25:22more pleasant and easy on your brain to

1:25:24ten things yellow but nothing is

1:25:26actually prove that and apples working

1:25:28on the features actually very carefully

1:25:30align with us so it says many studies

1:25:32have shown that exposure to bright blue

1:25:34light in the evening can affect your

1:25:36circadian rhythms and make it harder to

1:25:38fall asleep night shift use your iOS

1:25:40devices clock and educational haha and

1:25:42automatically shifts the closure display

1:25:43to the one where the spectrum making it

1:25:45easier on your eyes

1:25:47it doesn't say the shit of a color shift

1:25:49will make it easier to fall asleep

1:25:52it says bright lights have been shown to

1:25:54make it harder to fall asleep and this

1:25:56will be easier on your eyes but there's

1:25:59no connection to sleep there

1:26:01I'm surprised they can't get sued suit

1:26:02for easier on your eyes because like I

1:26:04don't even know what that supportable

1:26:06get more yellow which is easier on your

1:26:08eyes how is that I maybe it's because

1:26:10it's not measurable that's why it's

1:26:11that's why it's important but it's like

1:26:12it's bacon off they like well what is

1:26:14easier me

1:26:15so maybe it's it's big enough that

1:26:18they're okay but right and then you know

1:26:20there's all sorts of like theories about

1:26:22like that's why you see a lot of like

1:26:23yellow tinted sunglasses theories about

1:26:26like if you if you reduce the blue light

1:26:27more than the other colors these are on

1:26:29the island there there are other things

1:26:30about that but I don't and so I think

1:26:31that's probably backed up but like it

1:26:35doesn't seem like this is connected

1:26:37necessarily so I think if you're

1:26:39concerned about this

1:26:40sure try flux or try this try night

1:26:42shift if you find it pleasant great you

1:26:45know that that's it that's a separate

1:26:46thing it might not be helping you sleep

1:26:48but i think if you want to sleep it is

1:26:51it we do have evidence so far it seems

1:26:53that either reducing the brightness of

1:26:56the screen is probably way more

1:26:57important the screener does that

1:26:59automatically to some degree like you

1:27:00can pick your brightness but it does it

1:27:02does just based on ambient temperature

1:27:03within some range so it does her butt

1:27:05but like I would say like you reduce the

1:27:07brightness especially at night like you

1:27:09say you're either keep it all the time

1:27:10like i do or like just said it you said

1:27:12it lower and I even like so even set up

1:27:14the middle point lower or just if you're

1:27:16concerned about this and maybe you

1:27:18should be just don't use your devices

1:27:20before bed because the studies are

1:27:21pretty clear that that helps a lot but i

1:27:24don't think we know that changing it to

1:27:26yellow has a meaningful effect on the

1:27:27quality of your sleep

1:27:28it might be more pleasant but it's it

1:27:30might not have a meaningful effect but

1:27:32if you believe it will then it will

1:27:33because the placebo effect is incredibly

1:27:35strong and so like this two aspects as

1:27:37one

1:27:37some people just find it more pleasant

1:27:38like it they just like it's like yeah

1:27:41called fashion or aesthetics or just

1:27:43give them a warm fuzzy feeling they just

1:27:44like that's fine

1:27:45the right and the other one is if they

1:27:47believe it will give them better sleep

1:27:49there is a chance of that belief will

1:27:50cause some to have purposely maybe but

1:27:52you know at work it could be you know

1:27:54just like if you start thinking about

1:27:56having better sleep and wanted to make

1:27:58changes in your life to give you better

1:27:59sleep you will probably make other

1:28:01changes that will also give you better

1:28:02sleep you know so if you want better

1:28:05sleep

1:28:05chances are you could you know she's

1:28:07doing multiple things at one of those

1:28:08might be don't be like reading your

1:28:10phone every single second at night until

1:28:12the second you get you go to bed i have

1:28:15the opposite of the placebo effect

1:28:16because i do usually the last thing i do

1:28:18right before i go to bed

1:28:19is look at an iOS device which is pretty

1:28:22bright in a pretty dark room and I've

1:28:25been doing this for years and years and

1:28:26years you know since iOS existed and

1:28:28thanks for the ipod touches existed and

1:28:31every so often I think this like exactly

1:28:33what they tell you what not to do like a

1:28:35bright mostly white light in your face

1:28:38like right before bed

1:28:41I wonder if this is making me not be

1:28:42able to say when i go to sleep instantly

1:28:44so like everyone's but it's like I'm I'm

1:28:47trying to convince myself that what I'm

1:28:49doing is going to be harmful and I'd

1:28:51basically fine

1:28:52so somebody that is if Apple it you know

1:28:55maybe the Apple feature does more like

1:28:56maybe it also adjust the brightness if

1:28:59not maybe it should like that but that

1:29:01would be like if it if it also read it

1:29:03like I just like you know like reduce

1:29:04the variance your screen night also in

1:29:06addition to like the automatic thing the

1:29:09brightness range

1:29:10yeah like basically move the slider for

1:29:11you yeah like move move like the

1:29:13setpoint down also ignore you move move

1:29:16the whole range down if it also does

1:29:18that automatically that's a lot more

1:29:19valuable and maybe it does i haven't

1:29:21tried yet although i'd be like it is my

1:29:23device getting dim what the hell was

1:29:25that stupid thing again i want to

1:29:28display looks to dinner realize that

1:29:29I've acts like a kid is lean on the

1:29:31brightness button on my keyboard or

1:29:32something in a look and look for for a

1:29:34long time people have complained many

1:29:37people have complained that and i agree

1:29:40with this complaint that the the lowest

1:29:43brightness setting on iOS device screens

1:29:45often is low enough that it would be if

1:29:47you're in like if you're in a room that

1:29:49is the only elimination like it here

1:29:50reading in bed at night it the the

1:29:52lowest brightness setting is often still

1:29:54to be especially if using an Apple white

1:29:56background and there's been all sorts of

1:29:58like people the people who like use the

1:30:00accessibility toggles to try to make it

1:30:03even dimmer which messes with the mess

1:30:05with my app and then there's any bug

1:30:06reports like they're all sorts of of

1:30:09people like people who've been doing

1:30:10this for years of like using special

1:30:12accessibility settings or special app

1:30:14features to try to reduce it even

1:30:16further mean introversion instapaper

1:30:18when i first introduced dark mode in

1:30:20order to get around this problem i

1:30:21actually had a translucent black layer

1:30:24that I could put over the entire window

1:30:26just just a giant uiview over the entire

1:30:29window or lower

1:30:30or later i forget which one but just

1:30:32like a giant overlay that I could that I

1:30:34could just you know dim as necessary and

1:30:36dark mode because the entire interface

1:30:39was not dim enough online especially on

1:30:41an ipad with this giant giant break into

1:30:44a more prominent ipads and iphone most

1:30:46people just go into another room because

1:30:48i think the bottom brightness setting is

1:30:49too dim to look at like what does two

1:30:52things that they're here one is is it

1:30:54putting it off enough light to annoy

1:30:55other person is trying to sleep in the

1:30:57room

1:30:57yes I grant you it's doing that but the

1:30:58other is does it look like a normal

1:31:00screen or doesn't look like a screen

1:31:02that's broken and when you put the

1:31:03brightness of the bottom setting in any

1:31:05iOS device basically looks broken like

1:31:06things don't look right anymore it's not

1:31:08just the dimmer version of the screen

1:31:09now you're changing in a material way

1:31:11like there are things that you can't

1:31:13read because the contrast is too low

1:31:15everything is super dark it does not

1:31:16look like a slightly dimmer version i

1:31:18thought your point I thought you were

1:31:19going to say about the screens is and

1:31:21I've heard this complaint as well as

1:31:22that in with the dawning of LED

1:31:24backlights many years ago on most

1:31:25devices they go way too high

1:31:28like the top brightness setting is

1:31:29blinding noon in the noonday Sun have to

1:31:32put on a mask is like these like

1:31:34monitors from the random brands that are

1:31:39not like Apple monitors or dell HP but

1:31:42just that mean that you know Brandi

1:31:44you've never heard of that is really

1:31:45cheap monitors and their top brightness

1:31:47setting you can cook eggs with it

1:31:49I just they get really really bright no

1:31:52I mean even apples like my I have my

1:31:54five kids had my 5k is set to use one

1:31:56notch above the middle

1:31:57yeah because like the it's way too

1:31:58bright if it's set up more than that

1:32:00yeah it's just it's crazy but I which is

1:32:02good i like having that headroom I guess

1:32:04I mean maybe you still want it like you

1:32:06know if I said noon day Sun but if you

1:32:08actually have your iphone 6 out in the

1:32:09noonday Sun and put on max brightness

1:32:11you'll see it's actually not that bright

1:32:12after all compared to the Sun right and

1:32:14that's something like you they they do

1:32:16this it makes a lot of sense on portable

1:32:17devices especially because if you have

1:32:20to use it outside in sunlight it you

1:32:22really need every bit of brightness you

1:32:24can get but what you need there watching

1:32:26you there's different display text

1:32:27because lcds as you crank the brightness

1:32:29you just get like if you have a

1:32:30completely black screen you crank the

1:32:32brightness to max that you can use a

1:32:34black led-backlit screen completely

1:32:37black one has a flashlight in a dark

1:32:39room because that's how much light just

1:32:41comes through it is it because it's

1:32:42basically back

1:32:42is on behind every single pixel and the

1:32:44little liquid crystal things are trying

1:32:46not light through but they do which is

1:32:47why plasma TVs look better so oled

1:32:50doesn't have that problem because it is

1:32:52just cause not causing the pixels that

1:32:54are not lit up there just not admitting

1:32:56any light there's no light behind they

1:32:57don't have to block and we're just not

1:32:58putting it like a plasma they're just

1:33:00not putting out any light so they moved

1:33:01to oled could help because if you if you

1:33:03did have like I'm cranking my iphone 6

1:33:05brightness in the noonday Sun and i

1:33:07still can't see the screen even if you

1:33:09put a backlight behind it was this

1:33:10gigantic super-bright backlight you with

1:33:13the contrast between the white regions

1:33:15and the black would still be basically

1:33:17the same ratio and so it's still look

1:33:19all washed out and in the noonday Sun

1:33:21what you really need is to say this is

1:33:22you know you can turn the backlight down

1:33:24to a degree where that the LCD screen

1:33:27can block the light going to resist so

1:33:29the light is so windy that it doesn't go

1:33:30through but the room is so dark that

1:33:32where does come through you get a better

1:33:34contrast ratio so different display text

1:33:37missing before you get to reflect the

1:33:38display type which of course is a real

1:33:39way to go where there's not actually

1:33:40like coming from behind it but like a

1:33:42kindle you're relying on the sunlight

1:33:44coming down and bouncing off and you

1:33:46just make regions of a black so it

1:33:47doesn't talk as much and then you get

1:33:49something that acts like a an actual

1:33:50book a paper book where it becomes more

1:33:52readable and sunrise instead of less but

1:33:54we do not have a good hybrid between

1:33:56back lift and reflective screens there

1:34:00are a lot of ones that have been tried

1:34:01involving either an LCD or combinations

1:34:03various other tech and none of them are

1:34:05mainstream yet so we'll still wait for

1:34:06that but in the meantime I'll let is the

1:34:08next significant step in this area that

1:34:09should really help on this week's

1:34:12connected

1:34:13federico talks a bit about night shift

1:34:16and he had said that he had been using

1:34:18it for a while and then he went back to

1:34:21I think he turned it off or something

1:34:23like that he said I think it said that

1:34:25it was like getting stabbed in the eye

1:34:26because you're federico doesn't believe

1:34:29in sleeping when the rest of italy

1:34:31sleeps he sleeps when we sleep and so he

1:34:34said it was really jarring when he had

1:34:36turned off in the middle of the night so

1:34:37whether or not it's real

1:34:40it certainly is a strong placebo from

1:34:42what i can tell i mean it's also just

1:34:44like as i mentioned like your eyes

1:34:45adjust to it your eyes have you know

1:34:47auto white balance on camera terms the

1:34:49difference when you when you're not

1:34:51adjusted it's a huge difference you know

1:34:54in the East with a easy to see the stiff

1:34:56Prince is if you have a camera set the

1:34:59white balance on it manually to daylight

1:35:02and take a picture outside during

1:35:04daylight and it should look normal

1:35:07then sit with it's still set to daylight

1:35:09take a picture inside your house at

1:35:11night and everything will look insanely

1:35:13yellow it's a huge difference it this is

1:35:16not a subtle shift in colors it's a

1:35:19massive difference if you are just you

1:35:21know using your device one night with

1:35:23this feature enabled the whole night and

1:35:25the next night you have the feature

1:35:26disabled the whole night you might not

1:35:28even notice the difference because your

1:35:30eyes are adjusting as night falls the

1:35:32entire time as the thing is happening

1:35:34too slow change but if you then

1:35:36immediately while your eyes are adjusted

1:35:38to the warm color immediately see cool

1:35:41colors then it's gonna be very jarring I

1:35:44don't think that necessarily says like

1:35:45how big of a difference this makes

1:35:48whatever I think it's just like yeah

1:35:50the shift is a big shift you know but I

1:35:53i still don't i don't think we we have

1:35:55any thing to show this is like super

1:35:58effective I think I you know it's

1:35:59primarily anesthetic preference and then

1:36:03it might be related to eye strain or you

1:36:06know like the the the ease on your eyes

1:36:08a but the other the connection to sleep

1:36:10quality i think it is still very

1:36:12unproven so we're running a bit long and

1:36:15I'd like to wrap somewhat soon but I

1:36:18really wanted to at least bring up this

1:36:20multi-user ipad thing for the classroom

1:36:23so apparently there's going to be a

1:36:26whole bunch of changes for using iPads

1:36:30in the classroom and again this was

1:36:31covered in the most recent episode of

1:36:33connected where Frazier Spears showed up

1:36:34and it genuinely seems really really

1:36:38interesting some of the stuff they're

1:36:39doing

1:36:39teachers can look at other to look at

1:36:42their pupil screens we're not sure if

1:36:44that's live or if it's just like a

1:36:46snapshot it there's multi-user ipad so

1:36:49you so a user can log into any ipad and

1:36:51get their home folder so to speak on

1:36:55that ipad we don't know a whole lot

1:36:57about it but it seems really interesting

1:36:58i'm fascinated to hear the reports from

1:37:02from the field how this works but I'm

1:37:04very skeptical it'll ever land on

1:37:07regular consumer ipad

1:37:09that's what do you guys think is that

1:37:11it's got to come to regular this is one

1:37:12of those like bigger iPads like it is

1:37:14guaranteed this is going to come

1:37:15eventually it's just a question of when

1:37:17because us enough iPads are shared

1:37:20devices and families even it's just like

1:37:21the three kids fighting over the the two

1:37:24generations old ipad that has been

1:37:26handed down to them

1:37:27yeah they just need that like it they

1:37:31may be this feature for a long time and

1:37:33it seems like it's not it seems like it

1:37:35shouldn't be too hard to do like it

1:37:38doesn't break any sort of you I paradigm

1:37:41they could just have an app for

1:37:42switching or whatever like it's because

1:37:45once you're using it as a user is just

1:37:46like a regular ipad and the only context

1:37:48switches oh well you know now your

1:37:50sister wants to give it to her and then

1:37:51she watches that same happened

1:37:54taps on her icon and now it's her iPad

1:37:57and they have to fight over storage

1:37:58space you use iCloud to mitigate bad and

1:38:00what happens if you know enough room

1:38:02iCloud then when your sister logs in you

1:38:04lose your save data because it can

1:38:05upload the iCloud and you know there are

1:38:07details to work out here and there but

1:38:10this seems like a very obvious feature

1:38:12that needs to come time especially f

1:38:14iPads continue to you know be more

1:38:16sophisticated in the ipad pro and

1:38:18everything

1:38:19multiple users is a thing that we know

1:38:21is useful for large devices with

1:38:24multiple people might use like imax or

1:38:26even laptops or even ipad pros and i'm

1:38:30not sure i would assume that it's

1:38:31definitely coming to like regular

1:38:34consumer iPads I mean you know setting

1:38:36up the education environment is

1:38:38presumably like a big provisioning thing

1:38:40like i would imagine the kind of thing

1:38:42that it will it doesn't like it's very

1:38:44useful for education but I i'm not

1:38:46really sure Apple cares enough about

1:38:49enabling multi-user iPads for in

1:38:51people's houses because right now the

1:38:53way it solved is either you know either

1:38:56it's not solved and you stay logged in

1:38:57as one person and everyone just went to

1:38:59your high scores or people get different

1:39:02ipad for different people at the end

1:39:03that's that's probably what Apple wants

1:39:05apple wants everyone to have their own

1:39:06ipad I'm not sure because if you think

1:39:08about what's involved in this in a home

1:39:11environment without without like the

1:39:13central management of of the school's

1:39:14doing in a home environment what's

1:39:16involved here is like things that things

1:39:19that are really messy and iOS today such

1:39:21as having multiple

1:39:22itunes store account login same device

1:39:24apps from different people install from

1:39:27different accounts installed but that's

1:39:29all been solved in Ostend I mean like

1:39:31it's the same underpinnings you have

1:39:33multi it's a multi-user system you have

1:39:35separate you know it the directories in

1:39:37accounts in sandboxes and yet you can

1:39:40have two people logged in to different

1:39:41apple ideas and different accounts into

1:39:43the store like it just seems like this

1:39:45is all there's no tech reason there's

1:39:47very little you I reason the only reason

1:39:48it hasn't been done so far is because

1:39:50it's not really an important feature but

1:39:51it's one of those ones that I feel like

1:39:53they're going to get around to

1:39:53eventually and I don't think anyone has

1:39:56ever and not purchased another iPad

1:39:58because their current one likely they

1:40:00would say well we're going to get in

1:40:01alright but this one has multiple users

1:40:03no kids will still complaining when

1:40:04multiple you don't like forget it i

1:40:06don't know if you can afford it you buy

1:40:08one if you can afford it why don't you

1:40:09buy one if you can't afford and don't

1:40:10want it you don't buy one

1:40:12all this is going to do is make our

1:40:13lives a little bit better for people who

1:40:16don't want to buy another ipad and do

1:40:18want their kids to share it and are sick

1:40:20of hearing people complain about it he

1:40:22broke my mind minecraft castles or he

1:40:24messed with my high scores are deleted

1:40:27the app that I want her read my texts or

1:40:29whatever complaints people are going to

1:40:31have yeah I I just think it has to come

1:40:34but not anytime soon i'm not saying that

1:40:36even this year or next year but you know

1:40:38eventually there's going to be a ir s

1:40:41version 13 and they're going to features

1:40:43for it and this is gonna be one

1:40:45yeah maybe but I I'll is it's the kind

1:40:48of thing where like the amount of work

1:40:50it takes to have like you know to

1:40:52separate out like all the iCloud and app

1:40:55store stuff with multiple logins and iOS

1:40:57like the amount of work is going to take

1:40:59but isn't that already done

1:41:00don't you think it's already done like

1:41:01are no we essentially I are we

1:41:03essentially using a multi-user system

1:41:05that just has one user on it

1:41:07well it's it's done at the level of like

1:41:09the unix user-level sure but it's I

1:41:12don't think it's done at like the the

1:41:14like services integration level like I

1:41:17don't think you have but what but I

1:41:18wouldn't be done at that level because

1:41:20those same demons the same thing

1:41:21concerning I was 10

1:41:22well first of all it doesn't work that

1:41:24great understand a lot of times but it's

1:41:25a very different environment but like

1:41:26this

1:41:27keep in mind i was this is also the part

1:41:30of iOS that not only relies on that big

1:41:33messy store and icloud back

1:41:36it's really hard to get anything out of

1:41:37but also this seems to be the buggiest

1:41:40part of iOS is like the part that

1:41:42manages your account logins to these

1:41:44backends that is its it is so always

1:41:47fraught with minor bugs that like pop-up

1:41:50dialog for you to login on the time and

1:41:52everything like that doesn't like that

1:41:54doesn't on the mac too but yeah and that

1:41:56part of iOS is a mess and it's probably

1:41:59a mess for a good reason

1:42:00it's probably a mess because it would be

1:42:03so much work to fix it that they just

1:42:06will never get around to to improving it

1:42:08like i donated time scale mean I'mI'm

1:42:10executives say never but like but well

1:42:12but but why is it a mess on the mac like

1:42:14it just seems like what I would expect

1:42:15for them to implement the multi-user

1:42:17feature there may be some things that

1:42:18they make where they cut cards that have

1:42:20to go back and fixed up for the most

1:42:21part where you end up with two is with

1:42:23two separate messages you have multiple

1:42:24users both of which would experience the

1:42:26weather that we talked about in the past

1:42:27show or sometimes it keeps asking for

1:42:29your password and they would both

1:42:30experience that they would both get

1:42:31their own little private experience of

1:42:33those bugs but i but i don't see that as

1:42:35an impediment to then both having their

1:42:37own private experience of those bucks i

1:42:39think you're you're making very bold

1:42:42assumptions that that like Marco said

1:42:45the unix underpinnings of iOS have

1:42:47written all the way to the user facing

1:42:50portions of iOS if I were apple and i

1:42:52was writing iOS code way back when when

1:42:55it wasn't even a thought that there will

1:42:57be multiple users

1:42:59you bet I would probably be taking

1:43:00shortcuts to try to get things out the

1:43:02door quickly that assume that will that

1:43:05there were only ever be one user to any

1:43:06of these systems I i really think that

1:43:09that Marcos right now you're it's gonna

1:43:11be a long time before we see this now

1:43:13but here so I i agree with that they did

1:43:15take those shortcuts that the iOS one

1:43:17point or iphone OS there was no evidence

1:43:19was all it was just a master collection

1:43:21of shortcuts it had to be to even you

1:43:23know get things to work but this feature

1:43:25in iOS 9.3 shows that they've actually

1:43:28done the work already and it's only a

1:43:29question like they had to have done the

1:43:31work because Hey look multiple users and

1:43:33yes for enterprising classroom and

1:43:34server and cloud and it's as is aimed at

1:43:36a different user base or whatever but

1:43:38they had to have done that work they had

1:43:39to have gone through everything and said

1:43:41final place to recut cars because this

1:43:42thing isn't gonna work at all if when

1:43:44one student logs in this is the other

1:43:46person stuff or if they can't log into

1:43:48the you know they're doing

1:43:49that is being done and so once that's

1:43:51done it's only a matter of time before

1:43:54they decide to eventually get around to

1:43:56giving you the version of this that's

1:43:57not just for classrooms

1:43:59well it's I mean it's done to some

1:44:01degree and we don't mean none of us know

1:44:03if we should ask for your Spears we none

1:44:05of us know like to what degree this is

1:44:07done like how like what is kept per user

1:44:10like what what isn't

1:44:11you know but like you know is it like

1:44:13down to the iCloud account level

1:44:14includes every kid in my class account

1:44:16or just like their own files and

1:44:18probably I don't know I i would guess it

1:44:20is it is done to a fairly shallow level

1:44:22i would not expect this to be an easy

1:44:25way to just say i will just take this

1:44:27and just enable it for everybody like

1:44:29that i don't think it's gonna be that

1:44:30simple i just had a sad thought which is

1:44:32their multi user switching could

1:44:34basically be a race the everything about

1:44:36the previous user and go through really

1:44:38fast for setup process like in other

1:44:39words there's only ever one user and

1:44:41switching involves deleting the user

1:44:44that was there and putting in another

1:44:46user so really is single user all the

1:44:47time and all they do is delete

1:44:48everything having to do with one user

1:44:49really hope they didn't implement that

1:44:51way but that would probably work i think

1:44:52didn't I think freezer so that might be

1:44:54actually how it is done he was saying

1:44:56like it's not it's not a room for your

1:44:57stuff the ideas that will take your

1:44:59stuff and put it in my club which makes

1:45:00sense because like if if you switch

1:45:02accounts to somebody who has more stuff

1:45:04thinking fit on the current ipad you

1:45:06have to purge the old person stop

1:45:07especially with a classroom because of

1:45:08class and i padded club in a classroom

1:45:10doesn't have three users are gonna have

1:45:12like 15 or 20 and so you can't 15-20

1:45:15people stuff on there so as you change

1:45:17users eventually someone stops got to

1:45:18get purged on but i'm thinking of like

1:45:21this scenario where every time you

1:45:23switch user it says there used to be

1:45:24another user of this ipad but forget I

1:45:26ever existed delete all their stuff push

1:45:28it up to the cloud blah blah blah and

1:45:31create a new user and it's only ever a

1:45:33single-user ipad as far as the ipad is

1:45:35concerned there's only ever been one

1:45:36user to changes periodically and that

1:45:38would be depressing and that would be a

1:45:40way to implement this is a shortcut but

1:45:41i really hope you didn't do that but

1:45:43honestly I i do think that in this day

1:45:45and age you know it makes sense to do

1:45:47this in classrooms where you might have

1:45:49a bunch of devices like stationary

1:45:52installed in a classroom like in a lab

1:45:54or something like that or you have to

1:45:56you have to share between people because

1:45:57you don't have enough like that probably

1:45:59happens a lot education I think in this

1:46:01day and age

1:46:02I don't think we really need to be that

1:46:04concerned with multi-user use of today's

1:46:08ipads iphones and laptops like desktops

1:46:12maybe even laptops and most most people

1:46:15I i would love to have data on like what

1:46:19percentage of max out their have more

1:46:21than one user account whatever you wait

1:46:24till Adam gets older and he wants to use

1:46:25your computer and suddenly you'll be

1:46:27thankful that you can give him his own

1:46:28account August by cases i'm at that

1:46:30point given given me you know just by

1:46:32his own computer right yeah if you're

1:46:34gonna put a computer in the ruin your

1:46:36seven-year-olds room and then come back

1:46:38and scrape the peanut butter off the

1:46:39screen periodically but i doing iPads

1:46:41now i will not in his room but yeah I

1:46:44have to clean the people are off of my

1:46:46ipad air 2 now whenever she does it

1:46:49anyway multiple accounts i think it's a

1:46:51good idea i don't think i don't think

1:46:53it's going away and whether you think

1:46:56it's important for iphones and ipads

1:46:57that exists now as the ipad pro

1:46:59continues to develop in that direction

1:47:01as it becomes a more viable desktop and

1:47:04laptop replacement I think it's

1:47:05inevitable but I i concede that i may be

1:47:08overestimating the sophistication of

1:47:10this multi-user implementation there may

1:47:11be a massive amount of work to be done

1:47:13I still think it will happen but let's

1:47:14just push the timeline out a few more

1:47:15years

1:47:16very good alright thanks a lot to r3

1:47:20sponsors this week fracture blue apron

1:47:22and hover and we will see you next week

1:47:26now the show is over they didn't even

1:47:32mean to be in

1:47:33because it was accidental it was

1:47:37accidental

1:47:39John any research Marco and Casey would

1:47:43know

1:47:44because it was accidentally was

1:47:47accidental and you can find the show

1:47:51know the day EP dot and it for twitter

1:47:57follow them

1:48:00yes byl ISS so that's Casey list and a

1:48:05co-pay rm20 Marco Arment are see that

1:48:14Syracuse

1:48:27tired probably looking too many blue

1:48:31screens probably like last couple

1:48:34episodes been pretty good we can put

1:48:36that in the show because it's you know

1:48:38too self-congratulatory as I say it's

1:48:40gonna be a short show you have really

1:48:42yeah it's true

1:48:43yeah yeah let's follow up follow us back

1:48:45follow-up was back with a vengeance

1:48:47today that's true well that the place

1:48:49was it was really a topic that was like

1:48:51more about flex about that i mean both

1:48:53of you have very different lots of

1:48:55difficulties with the concept of

1:48:56follow-up in the format

1:48:58haha hey please educate us

1:49:01Casey's a tale of woe like it just like

1:49:04well we usually start with follow-up but

1:49:05instead we're gonna start with other

1:49:06thing which is properly a topic and then

1:49:08flex and infuse app infuse app is

1:49:11followed by him let's talk about the

1:49:12views that the people recommended here's

1:49:13how it works for us Bob LA but then it

1:49:16is spinning off into hairs what you know

1:49:19my complaints about blacks I'm guilty

1:49:20just because you believe me into it

1:49:22oh yeah it's all our fault how you gonna

1:49:23flex and you guide duplex and what

1:49:26you've heard like flex is a topic your

1:49:28tailbone was a topic the follow-up item

1:49:30you could clear this infuse item and

1:49:31like you know two-and-a-half minutes if

1:49:33we just hit the bullet points anyway we

1:49:35survived the show survives we soldier on

1:49:37but I was actually thinking as we were

1:49:39I i noticed as we were talking about

1:49:41Casey's imac for 40 minutes before we

1:49:43even begin follow-up I thought you know

1:49:46this is actually a better format i kinda

1:49:48like having the follow-up like after

1:49:50topic one because it gives you a chance

1:49:52to like get into the show with something

1:49:54new first now it doesn't logically

1:49:58speaking you hear the previous show and

1:50:00you're angry because they got a bunch of

1:50:02stuff wrong with the next episode start

1:50:03you want to hear immediately the case he

1:50:05knows that he got the c-sharp thing

1:50:06wrong

1:50:07yeah I don't know i-i-i put the tail

1:50:10well first because i thought it was more

1:50:12dramatic that way but i did kinda like

1:50:16having a little something a little

1:50:18appetizer before the follow-up but you

1:50:20always do that yeah I didn't you always

1:50:22that's the format of the show is it one

1:50:24of you has something to say before we

1:50:25begin to follow and how long the thing

1:50:27is fine but here's an hour

1:50:28this was my time to shine John don't

1:50:33live here is your time to cry

1:50:35sure your imac yeah how about that case

1:50:37the the box that little a trapezoid

1:50:40e-box yeah very weird i liked it very

1:50:42weird

1:50:43although I tell you what putting that

1:50:44junk back into the styrofoam what a

1:50:46disaster

1:50:47mostly because i'm an idiot when it came

1:50:48to that but really I found it very easy

1:50:52to repack an imac find a pretty easy to

1:50:54you just need practice

1:50:55yeah what I've never had to deal with it

1:50:56before i had to bring my head to bring

1:50:58my thunderbolt display back to the apple

1:50:59store many times I was the best man with

1:51:01that size and shape

1:51:02yeah but ya know I just never done it

1:51:06before with a with something that shape

1:51:07I mean unless I have a desktop it was a

1:51:09tower which is a big rectangle so it was

1:51:11very different for me and I don't quite

1:51:14understand the the black aesthetic we

1:51:16understand the box but usually the

1:51:18things apple those boxes are about

1:51:20fitting more in a shipping container you

1:51:21know basically like in less

1:51:22environmental waste more things you know

1:51:24but more product and less volume right

1:51:27but I really don't think they're packing

1:51:29these things up like you know top bottom

1:51:31top bottom top bottom to try to get

1:51:33space-saving so I see is that wedge they

1:51:35cut out of it is just empty space in the

1:51:37shipping containers when they ship these

1:51:38and you can you can only stack them on

1:51:40the way now that anyway I it seems like

1:51:43it's just an aesthetic thing which i can

1:51:45buy but if there's some shipping related

1:51:48reason why they want that taper I'd love

1:51:50to hear it

1:51:51why would you wouldn't stack them like

1:51:53one right side up the next right upside

1:51:55down no no I don't think they do that

1:51:56like I would imagine that they're not

1:51:58meant to be shipped upside down right

1:52:00setups and right up it seemed i think

1:52:02they're I bet they are

1:52:03I bet they think so yeah it was like

1:52:05what do you think they fill the gaps

1:52:06with like a whole bunch of mighty my

1:52:07secret is Topsail little triangles plus

1:52:11that that's what I'm saying like it just

1:52:13it just seems like the apps the apps

1:52:14would be ere I i would imagine that

1:52:17these things ship only in one

1:52:18orientation for just for like the

1:52:20security of like bouncing around and

1:52:23cargo containers but maybe they do ship

1:52:24find upside down and they do alternate

1:52:25the chat room is very upset because you

1:52:28are very wrong John there i'm wrong but

1:52:30i want to do upside down right setup you

1:52:32that you are wrong in saying that they

1:52:33are all right setup they are they are

1:52:35wedged in one right side up one upside

1:52:38down as as mark when I suspected

1:52:40yeah I I just thought they wouldn't do

1:52:42that i thought the like that that

1:52:43shipping upset i will be bad you know

1:52:45the whole thing with a side of power

1:52:47amazon boxes the numbers attention to i

1:52:49see that i still see them on boxes that

1:52:51come to my house usually not facing up

1:52:53anymore

1:52:53well I can imagine imagine how bad it

1:52:55would be the because you know whatever

1:52:57however Apple ships them that's

1:52:58definitely on how like UPS and FedEx

1:53:00going to ship them so like you know

1:53:02imagine if you designed a computer and a

1:53:04shipping method of that computer sucks

1:53:06that it had to be kept a certain way up

1:53:08otherwise it would just break

1:53:09I don't like have to be just like that's

1:53:10the best orientation is the most secure

1:53:12so when Apple controls the shipments

1:53:14like that but in the last mile it's all

1:53:16over the place because he based a little

1:53:17boxes all right yes it's somewhat but

1:53:19the outer box is also that same shape

1:53:21yeah yep as that they are the real

1:53:23reason this of course is to make the

1:53:24giant wheel imax those guys maybe credit

1:53:28if you put them together not alternating

1:53:30eventually you get a big wheel that you

1:53:33can stand in the runaround

1:53:34that's awesome that out on the quad and

1:53:36their what I assume is their college

1:53:37because where people have a this many

1:53:39imax and be this much free time

1:53:41yeah i think that their key the key

1:53:44thing that they did either right or

1:53:45wrong depending on your look at is these

1:53:47empty boxes and so they were held

1:53:49together had together with that with

1:53:51like clear packing tape and everything

1:53:52and eventually the packing tape and like

1:53:54the boxes themselves structural

1:53:55integrity together if you can i'm a cage

1:53:57one of those things that would have some

1:53:58serious momentum you could have ever

1:54:00gotten moving

1:54:01yeah we've been very heavy be very

1:54:03expensive wheel