The Accidental Tech Podcast

00:00:00 ◼   ► hello everybody we are live from las [TS]

00:00:03 ◼   ► vegas with our CES extravaganza [TS]

00:00:06 ◼   ► extravaganza is it extravaganza [TS]

00:00:10 ◼   ► not really no I'm just kidding and say [TS]

00:00:11 ◼   ► we're going to talk about stars for [TS]

00:00:12 ◼   ► three hours as a little exchange between [TS]

00:00:16 ◼   ► one of our listeners and the ever [TS]

00:00:20 ◼   ► watching ever listening up there folks [TS]

00:00:22 ◼   ► there in the cloud that's why I see [TS]

00:00:23 ◼   ► everything [TS]

00:00:24 ◼   ► peter brock power was tweeting at us [TS]

00:00:28 ◼   ► about this and he said an FYI up there [TS]

00:00:30 ◼   ► is hosted on AWS Little Snitch told me [TS]

00:00:33 ◼   ► so AWS Amazon Web Services and little [TS]

00:00:35 ◼   ► stitches a firewall program to tell you [TS]

00:00:37 ◼   ► where computers connected to ya and up [TS]

00:00:39 ◼   ► there on Twitter responded not true we [TS]

00:00:42 ◼   ► built our own stack from the ground up [TS]

00:00:43 ◼   ► and host our service on this stack so [TS]

00:00:46 ◼   ► I'm not quite sure what little snitch [TS]

00:00:47 ◼   ► was on about maybe it's connected AWS [TS]

00:00:49 ◼   ► for some ancillary things but straight [TS]

00:00:51 ◼   ► from the up their horses mouse mouth [TS]

00:00:54 ◼   ► they are not using AWS they have built [TS]

00:00:55 ◼   ► their own stack which is what I was [TS]

00:00:56 ◼   ► talking about the last show whatever [TS]

00:00:57 ◼   ► mysterious technology they're using [TS]

00:00:59 ◼   ► presumably the whole point the company [TS]

00:01:01 ◼   ► is not to write in iOS and mac app that [TS]

00:01:04 ◼   ► connects to s3 like that's not you don't [TS]

00:01:08 ◼   ► I don't think for transfer layer would [TS]

00:01:10 ◼   ► do a start-up and focus on that because [TS]

00:01:12 ◼   ► there's a million of those things [TS]

00:01:13 ◼   ► already [TS]

00:01:13 ◼   ► well I mean they could have also been [TS]

00:01:15 ◼   ► working a layer above that like they [TS]

00:01:17 ◼   ► could have been using easy to servers [TS]

00:01:19 ◼   ► like some other part of AWS as part of [TS]

00:01:21 ◼   ► their overly know just like how I cloud [TS]

00:01:23 ◼   ► uses some AWS stuff and some as your [TS]

00:01:26 ◼   ► stuff as far as we knew forever ago [TS]

00:01:28 ◼   ► yeah but that like what would the user [TS]

00:01:31 ◼   ► may even even a c2 like I don't know it [TS]

00:01:34 ◼   ► just seems it seems counter but that's [TS]

00:01:36 ◼   ► all there is that's all the rest up [TS]

00:01:37 ◼   ► there there's no it's a icon is built on [TS]

00:01:39 ◼   ► top of this whole bunch of other stuff [TS]

00:01:40 ◼   ► like that's just this you can use the [TS]

00:01:42 ◼   ► street the storage back end or view [TS]

00:01:44 ◼   ► movie if you don't have your own data [TS]

00:01:45 ◼   ► centers or whatever you may be good bc [TS]

00:01:47 ◼   ► 24 compute stuff but i don't know i just [TS]

00:01:49 ◼   ► always imagine whatever they're doing [TS]

00:01:51 ◼   ► being more interesting than that [TS]

00:01:53 ◼   ► fair enough any other follow-up through [TS]

00:01:56 ◼   ► this and follow up just because it's I [TS]

00:01:58 ◼   ► don't know if there's any information [TS]

00:01:59 ◼   ► here but if you throw in some follow [TS]

00:02:01 ◼   ► just because you couldn't stand not [TS]

00:02:02 ◼   ► having me [TS]

00:02:03 ◼   ► no i mean like i was i had this is a [TS]

00:02:05 ◼   ► topic section before when I said you [TS]

00:02:06 ◼   ► know we talked about this on a pet show [TS]

00:02:08 ◼   ► so it's kind of follow-up but i'm not [TS]

00:02:09 ◼   ► sure how filled information it is a [TS]

00:02:12 ◼   ► friend of mine was messaging me today [TS]

00:02:14 ◼   ► he's like so how do you feel about the [TS]

00:02:15 ◼   ► headphone port going away from the [TS]

00:02:17 ◼   ► iphone 7 and I said a you obviously [TS]

00:02:20 ◼   ► don't know Claud cast and be at what do [TS]

00:02:24 ◼   ► you know what are you talking about that [TS]

00:02:26 ◼   ► i missed some news or something is like [TS]

00:02:28 ◼   ► oh yeah they were talking about it [TS]

00:02:29 ◼   ► before but it wasn't confirmed until [TS]

00:02:30 ◼   ► today I like woody what are you talking [TS]

00:02:32 ◼   ► about like I really thought like that [TS]

00:02:33 ◼   ► Apple had announced that there was gonna [TS]

00:02:35 ◼   ► be no headphone cord on the iphone 7 but [TS]

00:02:37 ◼   ► I forget the regular people don't know [TS]

00:02:39 ◼   ► what confirmed means so this is a former [TS]

00:02:41 ◼   ► is a Forbes article it says the [TS]

00:02:44 ◼   ► headlines iphone 7 leaks confirm in [TS]

00:02:47 ◼   ► single quotes Apple abandoning headphone [TS]

00:02:49 ◼   ► jack so they put they did the work for [TS]

00:02:51 ◼   ► you they put in scare quotes in the [TS]

00:02:53 ◼   ► headline at least have the decency to [TS]

00:02:54 ◼   ► say confirm doing air quotes now confirm [TS]

00:02:57 ◼   ► any way more so we talked about this on [TS]

00:03:00 ◼   ► a path show more rumors more supposed [TS]

00:03:04 ◼   ► park leaks this one has a neat little [TS]

00:03:06 ◼   ► concept image because you can never [TS]

00:03:08 ◼   ► remember story you gotta have someone do [TS]

00:03:09 ◼   ► a mock-up image of the iphone 7 and i'm [TS]

00:03:12 ◼   ► looking at this mock-up image and what [TS]

00:03:15 ◼   ► do you guys think it looks a little thin [TS]

00:03:17 ◼   ► to me but anyway this is more smoke for [TS]

00:03:20 ◼   ► this potential fire of the headphone [TS]

00:03:22 ◼   ► port going why i don't know i think it's [TS]

00:03:23 ◼   ► too early to make any kind of call but [TS]

00:03:26 ◼   ► if I keep it is not that forms a great [TS]

00:03:29 ◼   ► track record but it's making me think [TS]

00:03:31 ◼   ► about it against making you think how [TS]

00:03:33 ◼   ► Apple could explain this inevitability [TS]

00:03:36 ◼   ► if not this year then next to the year [TS]

00:03:38 ◼   ► after the year after and I think a lot [TS]

00:03:40 ◼   ► of the stuff in this article is a good [TS]

00:03:43 ◼   ► way that they might explain it the idea [TS]

00:03:44 ◼   ► being that the phone would be smart [TS]

00:03:47 ◼   ► about where it sends audio output [TS]

00:03:49 ◼   ► depending on context i wish all of apple [TS]

00:03:51 ◼   ► slices were smarter this way all the [TS]

00:03:53 ◼   ► Apple services and devices so if I'm [TS]

00:03:56 ◼   ► listening on my wireless headphones you [TS]

00:03:58 ◼   ► know my car explain to bluetooth I get [TS]

00:04:00 ◼   ► out of the car [TS]

00:04:00 ◼   ► it's just my wireless earbuds or [TS]

00:04:02 ◼   ► whatever I sit down at my desk and it [TS]

00:04:05 ◼   ► switches to outputting through the [TS]

00:04:06 ◼   ► headphone jack of my computer or [TS]

00:04:09 ◼   ► something I mean like situational [TS]

00:04:11 ◼   ► awareness where you don't have to be [TS]

00:04:12 ◼   ► plugging and unplugging things will just [TS]

00:04:14 ◼   ► know based on your location of the [TS]

00:04:16 ◼   ► devices there or your preferred sound [TS]

00:04:17 ◼   ► output devices that and then you say see [TS]

00:04:21 ◼   ► isn't that better than headphone jack [TS]

00:04:22 ◼   ► and say yeah that actually worked that [TS]

00:04:24 ◼   ► would kind of be better than headphone [TS]

00:04:25 ◼   ► jack and lets you could make your phone [TS]

00:04:27 ◼   ► thinner so everybody's happy [TS]

00:04:29 ◼   ► I don't know if that world is in arrive [TS]

00:04:31 ◼   ► in time for the iphone 7 but one way to [TS]

00:04:34 ◼   ► sell the future I guess [TS]

00:04:35 ◼   ► yeah I mean we we talked this to death a [TS]

00:04:38 ◼   ► few episodes back so it is i don't think [TS]

00:04:39 ◼   ► we spend too much time on it but I i do [TS]

00:04:41 ◼   ► think the world of not having the [TS]

00:04:44 ◼   ► headphone jack is probably on its way I [TS]

00:04:46 ◼   ► think as we discussed last time it's [TS]

00:04:48 ◼   ► probably still a few years off mean it i [TS]

00:04:51 ◼   ► think the one of the biggest supports [TS]

00:04:53 ◼   ► for this is to look at the macbook one [TS]

00:04:55 ◼   ► and the macbook one has two ports the [TS]

00:04:58 ◼   ► multi-purpose USB / charging port and a [TS]

00:05:02 ◼   ► headphone jack and they couldn't justify [TS]

00:05:04 ◼   ► any other ports on that but they can [TS]

00:05:06 ◼   ► justify a headphone jack and i think [TS]

00:05:07 ◼   ► that goes to show just how often they're [TS]

00:05:09 ◼   ► used and bluetooth headphones do exist [TS]

00:05:13 ◼   ► because it for quite some time [TS]

00:05:14 ◼   ► there are some decent ones there are [TS]

00:05:17 ◼   ► very few good or even great ones and [TS]

00:05:21 ◼   ► there's a lot of trade-offs to bluetooth [TS]

00:05:22 ◼   ► headphones that make them not only less [TS]

00:05:25 ◼   ► good in some ways would actually [TS]

00:05:26 ◼   ► unusable for certain applications so [TS]

00:05:29 ◼   ► it's it is not a clean transition i'm [TS]

00:05:33 ◼   ► guessing that that one like kind of [TS]

00:05:36 ◼   ► crazy translated million times from [TS]

00:05:38 ◼   ► different languages story that we got [TS]

00:05:40 ◼   ► back then back in a month ago or two [TS]

00:05:42 ◼   ► that one story about how they're just be [TS]

00:05:44 ◼   ► a passive special lightning adapter for [TS]

00:05:46 ◼   ► this new revision of the Lightning port [TS]

00:05:48 ◼   ► that would basically have a DAC on the [TS]

00:05:52 ◼   ► phone and have it be able to send analog [TS]

00:05:55 ◼   ► audio through a cheap passive attempt [TS]

00:05:57 ◼   ► earth through the port into a headphone [TS]

00:05:59 ◼   ► jack port through like a little breakout [TS]

00:06:01 ◼   ► cable i think that's pretty plausible [TS]

00:06:02 ◼   ► and so if they that I think is the most [TS]

00:06:05 ◼   ► plausible explanation I've heard for why [TS]

00:06:08 ◼   ► this might not be a big deal if they can [TS]

00:06:10 ◼   ► make a cheap-ass adapter like that and [TS]

00:06:13 ◼   ► and you know just said that to you or [TS]

00:06:15 ◼   ► even included in the box if it's really [TS]

00:06:16 ◼   ► that cheap and passive they probably [TS]

00:06:18 ◼   ► won't it'll be more likely they would [TS]

00:06:20 ◼   ► sell it for thirty bucks but you know [TS]

00:06:21 ◼   ► the weekend we can dream but i think you [TS]

00:06:25 ◼   ► know where there's smoke there's usually [TS]

00:06:26 ◼   ► some fire and I think there's enough [TS]

00:06:28 ◼   ► smoke around this that I would move it [TS]

00:06:30 ◼   ► from unlikely to somewhat likely [TS]

00:06:35 ◼   ► and I think if we if we consider that [TS]

00:06:37 ◼   ► that like special lightning adapter [TS]

00:06:39 ◼   ► passive adapter thing that makes it all [TS]

00:06:42 ◼   ► that makes it more I don't know [TS]

00:06:46 ◼   ► digestible it's like it makes it suck [TS]

00:06:49 ◼   ► less [TS]

00:06:49 ◼   ► basically with all these type of stories [TS]

00:06:52 ◼   ► like there's a build to the [TS]

00:06:53 ◼   ► inevitability until we eventually get [TS]

00:06:55 ◼   ► the real parts leaks especially with the [TS]

00:06:57 ◼   ► phones you know as the date of the new [TS]

00:06:58 ◼   ► phone approaches were pretty far away [TS]

00:07:00 ◼   ► now so I was thinking that this next [TS]

00:07:03 ◼   ► round of stories about this rumor [TS]

00:07:06 ◼   ► mmm nudge it slightly more towards the [TS]

00:07:09 ◼   ► realm of possibility but it's still so [TS]

00:07:11 ◼   ► far out that it's within the realm of [TS]

00:07:14 ◼   ► things that could end up being totally [TS]

00:07:15 ◼   ► wrong but we'll keep watching keep [TS]

00:07:16 ◼   ► watching it knowledge ever closer and [TS]

00:07:18 ◼   ► we'll go basically know for sure when [TS]

00:07:20 ◼   ► the real parts likes come out because I [TS]

00:07:21 ◼   ► don't think we've had a significant [TS]

00:07:23 ◼   ► iphone revision and a long time where we [TS]

00:07:26 ◼   ► haven't got to look at pretty much every [TS]

00:07:27 ◼   ► piece of this thing all disassembled [TS]

00:07:29 ◼   ► before it arrives it will probably know [TS]

00:07:31 ◼   ► it by april or may I mean up and [TS]

00:07:35 ◼   ► especially like this like you may not [TS]

00:07:36 ◼   ► know everything like this be [TS]

00:07:38 ◼   ► can you not you can't figure out all the [TS]

00:07:40 ◼   ► software features obviously and then [TS]

00:07:42 ◼   ► hardware features sometimes hard to tell [TS]

00:07:44 ◼   ► from parts but things like a doesn't [TS]

00:07:46 ◼   ► have a hole for the headphone port to go [TS]

00:07:48 ◼   ► and we'll be able to tell just by [TS]

00:07:49 ◼   ► looking at cases [TS]

00:07:49 ◼   ► yeah and like the back case is often one [TS]

00:07:51 ◼   ► of the very first part to leak it kid [TS]

00:07:53 ◼   ► probably that's something like we'll [TS]

00:07:55 ◼   ► probably know this one by the spring you [TS]

00:07:56 ◼   ► know really [TS]

00:07:58 ◼   ► alright what's awesome these days Marco [TS]

00:07:59 ◼   ► our first sponsor this week is [TS]

00:08:01 ◼   ► audible.com audible.com has more than a [TS]

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00:08:11 ◼   ► if you want to listen to it audible has [TS]

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00:08:14 ◼   ► listen to audiobooks from virtually [TS]

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00:08:18 ◼   ► play audibles audiobooks on phones [TS]

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00:08:22 ◼   ► ipods if you're Steven Hackett now audio [TS]

00:08:24 ◼   ► books are great flight long road trips [TS]

00:08:27 ◼   ► even your daily commute you may think [TS]

00:08:28 ◼   ► you don't have time to read books you'd [TS]

00:08:30 ◼   ► be surprised how many audio books you [TS]

00:08:31 ◼   ► can hear each year even if you only [TS]

00:08:33 ◼   ► listen to and from work every day with [TS]

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00:08:36 ◼   ► audiobooks and spoken word audio [TS]

00:08:38 ◼   ► products you will find what you're [TS]

00:08:40 ◼   ► looking for [TS]

00:08:41 ◼   ► we have a book recommendation don't we [TS]

00:08:42 ◼   ► indeed believe John has one and i have [TS]

00:08:46 ◼   ► won if you'd like one as well [TS]

00:08:47 ◼   ► well John the time in your next time as [TS]

00:08:48 ◼   ► that [TS]

00:08:48 ◼   ► sounds good or you want to go first no [TS]

00:08:50 ◼   ► no it's cool kids especially since jon [TS]

00:08:53 ◼   ► is going to make fun of my book [TS]

00:08:53 ◼   ► selection so we can definitely save that [TS]

00:08:55 ◼   ► lets do yours then [TS]

00:08:56 ◼   ► yeah shouldn't set it so i really [TS]

00:08:59 ◼   ► enjoyed the book ready player one by [TS]

00:09:02 ◼   ► Ernest Cline which is I made the mistake [TS]

00:09:04 ◼   ► of listening to the uncomfortable about [TS]

00:09:05 ◼   ► it and they basically spent an hour and [TS]

00:09:08 ◼   ► a half talking about how terrible it is [TS]

00:09:09 ◼   ► anyway his second book came out happily [TS]

00:09:13 ◼   ► was in 2015 i could be wrong about that [TS]

00:09:15 ◼   ► and it's called armada and it is not as [TS]

00:09:18 ◼   ► good as ready player one which at this [TS]

00:09:20 ◼   ► point John is seriously rolling his eyes [TS]

00:09:22 ◼   ► but it is good i did like it if you [TS]

00:09:25 ◼   ► happen to be a fan of Ender's Game you [TS]

00:09:26 ◼   ► like this and and or ready player one [TS]

00:09:28 ◼   ► and it is also narrated by wilwheaton [TS]

00:09:31 ◼   ► who is kind of an Internet darling and I [TS]

00:09:34 ◼   ► mean that may not sarcastic way and they [TS]

00:09:36 ◼   ► not derisive way so i definitely [TS]

00:09:38 ◼   ► recommend it's apparently just a shade [TS]

00:09:41 ◼   ► under 12 hours so that's what like two [TS]

00:09:43 ◼   ► ATP episodes and it's available [TS]

00:09:45 ◼   ► inaudible so check it out today with [TS]

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00:09:54 ◼   ► up at audible.com / ATP that's [TS]

00:09:57 ◼   ► audible.com / ATP thanks to audible for [TS]

00:10:00 ◼   ► sponsoring our show [TS]

00:10:02 ◼   ► ready player one is mostly harmless [TS]

00:10:04 ◼   ► silly garbage like that like we really [TS]

00:10:09 ◼   ► showed yeah we had fun we have fun [TS]

00:10:11 ◼   ► making fun of it on the incomparable but [TS]

00:10:13 ◼   ► it's also it's all in good fun like I [TS]

00:10:15 ◼   ► think it I think it just because we have [TS]

00:10:17 ◼   ► a lot of things words it's easy to [TS]

00:10:18 ◼   ► ridicule the book and then poke added [TS]

00:10:22 ◼   ► and and find flaws and it's still fun [TS]

00:10:25 ◼   ► read [TS]

00:10:25 ◼   ► like I don't regret reading like guess [TS]

00:10:28 ◼   ► that makes me feel a little baby it's [TS]

00:10:30 ◼   ► not i don't like to use guilty pleasure [TS]

00:10:31 ◼   ► because i don't like that concept but [TS]

00:10:33 ◼   ► it's kinda like it's like junk foods [TS]

00:10:34 ◼   ► like a bag of potato chips [TS]

00:10:35 ◼   ► whatever just chomped down on goodness [TS]

00:10:40 ◼   ► all right well anyway I'm yeah you [TS]

00:10:42 ◼   ► should check out that you should check [TS]

00:10:43 ◼   ► out horrible [TS]

00:10:44 ◼   ► alright so what else are we talking [TS]

00:10:45 ◼   ► tonight are talking about tonight we see [TS]

00:10:48 ◼   ► that somebody is fixed apples grievous [TS]

00:10:51 ◼   ► mistake with the macbook one those two [TS]

00:10:54 ◼   ► kinds of mistakes are just two things i [TS]

00:10:56 ◼   ► just happened to see recently and I'm [TS]

00:10:57 ◼   ► sure there's more the macbook one's got [TS]

00:11:00 ◼   ► the one little lonely USB [TS]

00:11:02 ◼   ► sea port on the side of it but USB [TS]

00:11:04 ◼   ► type-c can do all sorts of stuff that's [TS]

00:11:08 ◼   ► why it's one port you can put the power [TS]

00:11:10 ◼   ► through it and you can do all sorts of [TS]

00:11:12 ◼   ► things and so the first link in this to [TS]

00:11:16 ◼   ► link said here is for a Griffin device [TS]

00:11:19 ◼   ► that you plug into USBC port on your [TS]

00:11:21 ◼   ► macbook one and it gives you back the [TS]

00:11:24 ◼   ► MagSafe connector sort of basically a [TS]

00:11:27 ◼   ► magnetic thing that someone tripped over [TS]

00:11:29 ◼   ► the cord it would become disconnected [TS]

00:11:30 ◼   ► now i find it interesting for a couple [TS]

00:11:32 ◼   ► reasons when we first talked about the [TS]

00:11:34 ◼   ► macbook one you know we would of course [TS]

00:11:37 ◼   ► discuss the fact that this one connector [TS]

00:11:39 ◼   ► also replaces magsafe what happened to [TS]

00:11:41 ◼   ► my exams in makes it great doesn't [TS]

00:11:43 ◼   ► everybody loved magsafe does everybody [TS]

00:11:44 ◼   ► love being a literal record not have a [TS]

00:11:46 ◼   ► yank your computer off the you know the [TS]

00:11:48 ◼   ► thing or break your adapter whatever is [TS]

00:11:50 ◼   ► it makes a great feature why would they [TS]

00:11:51 ◼   ► get rid of it and my question but I [TS]

00:11:53 ◼   ► still want to answer do because i don't [TS]

00:11:54 ◼   ► have one of these and you do any of us [TS]

00:11:56 ◼   ► was maybe you don't need magsafe because [TS]

00:11:59 ◼   ► maybe the USBC connector so small that [TS]

00:12:01 ◼   ► if you trip over it it just pops out [TS]

00:12:02 ◼   ► anyway harmlessly like it's the [TS]

00:12:04 ◼   ► connector is so small that magsafe is no [TS]

00:12:06 ◼   ► longer needed [TS]

00:12:08 ◼   ► I still know if that's the case [TS]

00:12:09 ◼   ► obviously Griffin thinks that people [TS]

00:12:11 ◼   ► think it's not the case [TS]

00:12:13 ◼   ► or maybe they know themselves is not the [TS]

00:12:15 ◼   ► case because they're saying hey by this [TS]

00:12:16 ◼   ► adapter whose sole purpose is to provide [TS]

00:12:19 ◼   ► a magnetic breakaway connection for the [TS]

00:12:21 ◼   ► power for your laptop and i don't know [TS]

00:12:26 ◼   ► like I i feel like i would buy this [TS]

00:12:27 ◼   ► thing by the laptop by itself and i [TS]

00:12:29 ◼   ► would see it is tripping over the i mean [TS]

00:12:31 ◼   ► i'm not i would find out more at find [TS]

00:12:33 ◼   ► out by yanking on to the floor watching [TS]

00:12:34 ◼   ► the screen crack or something maybe just [TS]

00:12:36 ◼   ► do some experiments to see but boy it [TS]

00:12:38 ◼   ► seems a long way to go to fill the one [TS]

00:12:41 ◼   ► only port on your thing with this giant [TS]

00:12:42 ◼   ► adapter for dollar giant adapter not yet [TS]

00:12:45 ◼   ► available that gives you a big magnetic [TS]

00:12:49 ◼   ► thing we're weird product where product [TS]

00:12:53 ◼   ► yeah this is I don't know whenever you [TS]

00:12:56 ◼   ► know whenever there's a computer or [TS]

00:12:57 ◼   ► technology thing that comes out and and [TS]

00:13:00 ◼   ► lacks something that came before it [TS]

00:13:03 ◼   ► there's always a market for third [TS]

00:13:05 ◼   ► parties to come in and offer the [TS]

00:13:07 ◼   ► comforts of the previous thing in some [TS]

00:13:09 ◼   ► kind of bolt-on thing the cost between [TS]

00:13:11 ◼   ► fourteen hundred dollars like this is [TS]

00:13:13 ◼   ► like this is true of all technology [TS]

00:13:15 ◼   ► whenever any progress [TS]

00:13:16 ◼   ► made and sometimes it's worth using [TS]

00:13:18 ◼   ► usually it's not in this case and you [TS]

00:13:21 ◼   ► know Griffin stuff I've had honestly [TS]

00:13:23 ◼   ► I've had mixed success with Griffin [TS]

00:13:25 ◼   ► stuff so I i'm not even sure I would [TS]

00:13:27 ◼   ► trust this to to work and be of high [TS]

00:13:29 ◼   ► quality so i don't know i don't really [TS]

00:13:33 ◼   ► see why people would want to to go [TS]

00:13:38 ◼   ► through the hassle of this and i just [TS]

00:13:39 ◼   ► have to kind too kind of like bulk up [TS]

00:13:40 ◼   ► that poor ruin that port I don't know it [TS]

00:13:42 ◼   ► doesn't seem it seems like this is a [TS]

00:13:44 ◼   ► problem that that is not worth solving [TS]

00:13:47 ◼   ► because the solution to it is too clunky [TS]

00:13:49 ◼   ► itself [TS]

00:13:50 ◼   ► I don't even know if it's a problem like [TS]

00:13:52 ◼   ► we don't know the other thing is there's [TS]

00:13:53 ◼   ► no USB pastor this take your one and [TS]

00:13:55 ◼   ► only port this fills it with power and [TS]

00:13:57 ◼   ► that's it so that you know they did I [TS]

00:14:00 ◼   ► can't believe it even provided a pastor [TS]

00:14:02 ◼   ► so you could be sure but that that makes [TS]

00:14:04 ◼   ► it suck really yeah so for forty dollars [TS]

00:14:07 ◼   ► to fill the one poor anyway it shows [TS]

00:14:09 ◼   ► like that that's kind of how private [TS]

00:14:11 ◼   ► companies work i'll use that your you [TS]

00:14:12 ◼   ► hit the nail right on the head saying [TS]

00:14:13 ◼   ► someone always makes one of these things [TS]

00:14:15 ◼   ► that is mostly to make people like you [TS]

00:14:17 ◼   ► said feel more comfortable i used to [TS]

00:14:19 ◼   ► have magsafe and regardless of whether i [TS]

00:14:21 ◼   ► need magsafe now I want to still have it [TS]

00:14:24 ◼   ► because it makes me feel comfortable [TS]

00:14:25 ◼   ► maybe it's needed i don't know i haven't [TS]

00:14:26 ◼   ► done the experiment as far as I know [TS]

00:14:28 ◼   ► nobody has but another solution to this [TS]

00:14:31 ◼   ► would be an apple just put enough [TS]

00:14:33 ◼   ► battery life and that laptop they would [TS]

00:14:34 ◼   ► need to plug it in all day [TS]

00:14:36 ◼   ► you gotta plug it in sometime even if [TS]

00:14:39 ◼   ► you're just putting it somewhere to [TS]

00:14:40 ◼   ► charge someone walks by your desk in an [TS]

00:14:42 ◼   ► accent thing [TS]

00:14:42 ◼   ► yeah but the macbook one has as pretty [TS]

00:14:45 ◼   ► mediocre battery life on the rest of the [TS]

00:14:46 ◼   ► lineup it's pretty small [TS]

00:14:48 ◼   ► yeah this guy like revision will [TS]

00:14:50 ◼   ► presumably get noticeably better but [TS]

00:14:53 ◼   ► it's still gonna probably require being [TS]

00:14:54 ◼   ► plugged in if you're using it all day so [TS]

00:14:56 ◼   ► the next one is another thing that takes [TS]

00:14:58 ◼   ► advantage of the versatility of the USB [TS]

00:15:01 ◼   ► type-c port is even bigger it's a big [TS]

00:15:04 ◼   ► like rectangular thing that pokes out [TS]

00:15:06 ◼   ► the side of your macbook one but it [TS]

00:15:09 ◼   ► gives you a whole mess of ports because [TS]

00:15:10 ◼   ► you too big normal size USB gives us d [TS]

00:15:13 ◼   ► car looks like a CF card and also has a [TS]

00:15:16 ◼   ► pastor for us bc and this one is from [TS]

00:15:18 ◼   ► hyper this looks nice to me i'm just [TS]

00:15:22 ◼   ► talking at work today with someone so i [TS]

00:15:24 ◼   ► think i mentioned in the past that when [TS]

00:15:25 ◼   ► i'm working these days they're cinema [TS]

00:15:27 ◼   ► displays everywhere are well really [TS]

00:15:29 ◼   ► Thunderbolts [TS]

00:15:30 ◼   ► place i should say and I've always been [TS]

00:15:31 ◼   ► so jealous because I've always kind of [TS]

00:15:33 ◼   ► wanted one of those so that i could just [TS]

00:15:34 ◼   ► sit my laptop down plug in just a couple [TS]

00:15:36 ◼   ► of cables and then I be connected to [TS]

00:15:38 ◼   ► ethernet my microphone and and whatnot [TS]

00:15:40 ◼   ► and and this is a fifty-dollar on sale [TS]

00:15:43 ◼   ► you know like kind of many docking [TS]

00:15:45 ◼   ► station and although it doesn't have [TS]

00:15:47 ◼   ► ethernet which a little bit of a bummer [TS]

00:15:49 ◼   ► this is the sort of thing that if I had [TS]

00:15:51 ◼   ► a macbook one I would absolutely stick [TS]

00:15:53 ◼   ► one of these on my desk in and make it a [TS]

00:15:55 ◼   ► little easier to use even like what's [TS]

00:15:57 ◼   ► promising about this too is like you [TS]

00:15:59 ◼   ► know they're there have always been [TS]

00:15:59 ◼   ► similar products although never very [TS]

00:16:02 ◼   ► many of them for thunderbolt and they [TS]

00:16:04 ◼   ► were always basically from like two [TS]

00:16:06 ◼   ► hundred dollars and up [TS]

00:16:08 ◼   ► mm so this it's probably the USB stuff [TS]

00:16:10 ◼   ► is so cheap to make [TS]

00:16:12 ◼   ► even though it is obviously a little [TS]

00:16:13 ◼   ► more limited like technically then the [TS]

00:16:15 ◼   ► Thunderbolt but this is nice [TS]

00:16:17 ◼   ► what's it a few more things first of all [TS]

00:16:19 ◼   ► this is very very small and it like [TS]

00:16:21 ◼   ► seems to fit the profile pretty well of [TS]

00:16:23 ◼   ► the laptop so that's nice to hear you it [TS]

00:16:25 ◼   ► it's small but like it's compared it's a [TS]

00:16:30 ◼   ► small laptop compared to the size light [TS]

00:16:32 ◼   ► add significantly to the laptop [TS]

00:16:33 ◼   ► percentage-wise i feel like i could [TS]

00:16:35 ◼   ► changes you from your little tiny [TS]

00:16:36 ◼   ► portable thing to something that's [TS]

00:16:38 ◼   ► really big here is the thing that [TS]

00:16:39 ◼   ► worries me a lot when i look at it is [TS]

00:16:41 ◼   ► the USBC port the only mechanical [TS]

00:16:44 ◼   ► connection between this again like small [TS]

00:16:47 ◼   ► and absolute size but larger relative [TS]

00:16:49 ◼   ► size is that the only connection to the [TS]

00:16:51 ◼   ► thing like what have you tried to pick [TS]

00:16:52 ◼   ► this thing up from the side of the [TS]

00:16:53 ◼   ► adapter and accidentally grabbed a [TS]

00:16:55 ◼   ► little bit below the spc but would you [TS]

00:16:57 ◼   ► twist and crack this thing off and it [TS]

00:16:58 ◼   ► doesn't seem to have any other means of [TS]

00:17:01 ◼   ► connecting itself the thing other than [TS]

00:17:03 ◼   ► the USBC but i'm sure it's it's [TS]

00:17:04 ◼   ► lightweight and everything just what it [TS]

00:17:06 ◼   ► looks like is extending your laptop [TS]

00:17:08 ◼   ► sideways by an inch but it's not it's [TS]

00:17:11 ◼   ► like I don't know it just seems like it [TS]

00:17:13 ◼   ► is a lever made to break that connector [TS]

00:17:16 ◼   ► yeah good point this well and again you [TS]

00:17:18 ◼   ► can look at this stuff like I i think if [TS]

00:17:21 ◼   ► you're going to be connecting things to [TS]

00:17:24 ◼   ► your macbook on a regular basis the [TS]

00:17:27 ◼   ► macbook one is probably not the right [TS]

00:17:28 ◼   ► model for you you know because we like [TS]

00:17:30 ◼   ► we know a lot of people who have these [TS]

00:17:31 ◼   ► things most of whom love them and the [TS]

00:17:35 ◼   ► the number one thing we hear from these [TS]

00:17:37 ◼   ► people who love them whenever the port [TS]

00:17:38 ◼   ► conversation comes up is they don't [TS]

00:17:40 ◼   ► really are playing in [TS]

00:17:41 ◼   ► so it's fine and I think if you're going [TS]

00:17:44 ◼   ► to be plugging things in just get either [TS]

00:17:46 ◼   ► an air or the presumed soon to be coming [TS]

00:17:50 ◼   ► sky like 13 inch pro which should [TS]

00:17:53 ◼   ► probably be pretty competitive than [TS]

00:17:55 ◼   ► missing lightness wise to the 13 chair [TS]

00:17:58 ◼   ► but we'll see [TS]

00:17:58 ◼   ► yeah i think this though but especially [TS]

00:18:01 ◼   ► the the price like you said Mark I mean [TS]

00:18:02 ◼   ► that is stunningly cheap yeah 50 bucks I [TS]

00:18:05 ◼   ► mean you can't get a thunderbolt cable [TS]

00:18:07 ◼   ► four 55s seriously probably can now [TS]

00:18:10 ◼   ► please don't even know me but you [TS]

00:18:11 ◼   ► couldn't do first [TS]

00:18:13 ◼   ► it reminds me of like a pc peripherals [TS]

00:18:15 ◼   ► because it's like a CF card reader [TS]

00:18:17 ◼   ► really no it's not it's not no it's SD [TS]

00:18:20 ◼   ► and microSD yeah I I maybe I'm [TS]

00:18:22 ◼   ► misjudging the size 10 because [TS]

00:18:23 ◼   ► everything is relative to the size of [TS]

00:18:25 ◼   ► the mackerel keep forgetting how darn [TS]

00:18:26 ◼   ► small thing actually is so yeah but [TS]

00:18:28 ◼   ► anyway the SD of the micro-st it if you [TS]

00:18:32 ◼   ► took out those two slots then you [TS]

00:18:34 ◼   ► wouldn't have such a long lever with [TS]

00:18:36 ◼   ► which to crack off the USBC connector [TS]

00:18:37 ◼   ► but you know there will be a it's almost [TS]

00:18:40 ◼   ► as if I think like go full-length [TS]

00:18:42 ◼   ► internet like seven more slots or go [TS]

00:18:44 ◼   ► even shorter and just add the full-size [TS]

00:18:47 ◼   ► USB you know and the pastor I don't know [TS]

00:18:50 ◼   ► I don't know anyway people apparently [TS]

00:18:51 ◼   ► buying them so excited you can't really [TS]

00:18:54 ◼   ► go that far wrong for fifty bucks and [TS]

00:18:57 ◼   ► and i would definitely recommend for [TS]

00:18:59 ◼   ► people who have their laptop on their [TS]

00:19:01 ◼   ► desk like not for people who are [TS]

00:19:03 ◼   ► constantly picking it up and carrying it [TS]

00:19:04 ◼   ► place to place or if you want to travel [TS]

00:19:06 ◼   ► with it and like if you wanna be like on [TS]

00:19:07 ◼   ► the plane but you have like plain old [TS]

00:19:09 ◼   ► USB peripherals that you need to use or [TS]

00:19:12 ◼   ► you want to be swapping SD card to do [TS]

00:19:14 ◼   ► but you know pulling pictures of cameras [TS]

00:19:16 ◼   ► while you're sitting in your plane seat [TS]

00:19:17 ◼   ► I wouldn't want this thing hanging out [TS]

00:19:19 ◼   ► the side while I'm trying to handle my [TS]

00:19:20 ◼   ► thing on the tray anyway [TS]

00:19:22 ◼   ► well see to me I i think this would [TS]

00:19:24 ◼   ► actually the opposite way i would say [TS]

00:19:25 ◼   ► for a desk you want something with like [TS]

00:19:28 ◼   ► one cable that plugs in and have some [TS]

00:19:30 ◼   ► kind of breakout box with the other [TS]

00:19:31 ◼   ► stuff in it that way you can kind of get [TS]

00:19:33 ◼   ► it away from the side of the computer [TS]

00:19:34 ◼   ► and not have the stress on there every [TS]

00:19:36 ◼   ► single day and kind of make a cleaner [TS]

00:19:38 ◼   ► desk if you can if you can hide that [TS]

00:19:39 ◼   ► stuff somewhere behind a desk or under [TS]

00:19:41 ◼   ► ever whereas the this one I think we [TS]

00:19:44 ◼   ► better for travel because you get [TS]

00:19:45 ◼   ► adaptability to these three different [TS]

00:19:48 ◼   ► port types in one small thing that [TS]

00:19:50 ◼   ► doesn't have itself it's own cable so 44 [TS]

00:19:53 ◼   ► like sighs and [TS]

00:19:55 ◼   ► tidiness in a travel bag full of other [TS]

00:19:57 ◼   ► cable adapters and computer junk this [TS]

00:19:59 ◼   ► would actually be a big win i think i [TS]

00:20:00 ◼   ► was saying on the desk [TS]

00:20:02 ◼   ► mostly because then there's less chance [TS]

00:20:04 ◼   ► of meeting someone lifting up and crack [TS]

00:20:06 ◼   ► nothing off you know because explain [TS]

00:20:08 ◼   ► flat on the desk [TS]

00:20:09 ◼   ► yeah and you can manipulate it and stick [TS]

00:20:11 ◼   ► the things into it you're right like it [TS]

00:20:12 ◼   ► is even better will be a cable that [TS]

00:20:14 ◼   ► snakes away from the thing and it does [TS]

00:20:16 ◼   ► work well for travel in terms of clutter [TS]

00:20:18 ◼   ► but I don't know it just makes me [TS]

00:20:20 ◼   ► nervous just looking at like I keep [TS]

00:20:22 ◼   ► looking at that because of pictures like [TS]

00:20:23 ◼   ► it really is just a little tiny [TS]

00:20:24 ◼   ► connector it just doesn't seem the same [TS]

00:20:28 ◼   ► right [TS]

00:20:28 ◼   ► yeah that that would make me nervous as [TS]

00:20:30 ◼   ► well to be honest but I mean it's not [TS]

00:20:32 ◼   ► the thing is I think you're not going to [TS]

00:20:33 ◼   ► break the computer with that you're [TS]

00:20:35 ◼   ► going to break the adapter because the [TS]

00:20:36 ◼   ► computer has the aluminum case like [TS]

00:20:38 ◼   ► laser-cut opening around that that's not [TS]

00:20:40 ◼   ► you're not going to break the computer [TS]

00:20:41 ◼   ► by twisting the thing I'd feel like [TS]

00:20:42 ◼   ► you're going to break the or maybe it [TS]

00:20:43 ◼   ► would be just a battle between two [TS]

00:20:45 ◼   ► pieces of aluminum see which one I don't [TS]

00:20:48 ◼   ► know the world's least interesting [TS]

00:20:49 ◼   ► battle [TS]

00:20:50 ◼   ► yeah well it's exactly all these people [TS]

00:20:52 ◼   ► are doing like the yeah was it a mkbhd [TS]

00:20:56 ◼   ► whatever was doing his stabbing the the [TS]

00:20:59 ◼   ► iphone 6 suppose that iphone 6 screens [TS]

00:21:01 ◼   ► with a knife and everything we need the [TS]

00:21:03 ◼   ► even more boring equivalent of that of [TS]

00:21:05 ◼   ► let's that stress test the connector on [TS]

00:21:07 ◼   ► this USB hub type thing because that's [TS]

00:21:08 ◼   ► that's our domain if we have a youtube [TS]

00:21:10 ◼   ► channel will be all USB hubs ok you hear [TS]

00:21:13 ◼   ► you heard it here first type of shop [TS]

00:21:15 ◼   ► send us one of these to review along [TS]

00:21:17 ◼   ► with a macbook one that you don't want [TS]

00:21:18 ◼   ► and we will do this to mr. on the air [TS]

00:21:21 ◼   ► pretty remarkable film it on his fancy [TS]

00:21:23 ◼   ► still image camera that's also kind of a [TS]

00:21:25 ◼   ► video camera [TS]

00:21:26 ◼   ► yeah all right anything else on this [TS]

00:21:31 ◼   ► thing I can't believe this is the news [TS]

00:21:32 ◼   ► this week it's like it's this is like [TS]

00:21:34 ◼   ► this is why I hate CES because the only [TS]

00:21:37 ◼   ► news that happens is either like [TS]

00:21:39 ◼   ► pie-in-the-sky stuff that will never [TS]

00:21:41 ◼   ► come out or like USB port news [TS]

00:21:45 ◼   ► it's like it's not with some CS news [TS]

00:21:47 ◼   ► like people keep sending me the stories [TS]

00:21:49 ◼   ► about the like OLED TVs that are going [TS]

00:21:51 ◼   ► to be shown or announced that CS and [TS]

00:21:54 ◼   ► maybe they have been by today but i [TS]

00:21:55 ◼   ► haven't caught up on the story said I [TS]

00:21:57 ◼   ► basically just wait for CS to be over [TS]

00:21:59 ◼   ► and then find the summary stories to [TS]

00:22:01 ◼   ► pick out the three things that were [TS]

00:22:02 ◼   ► actually good or interesting and say yes [TS]

00:22:03 ◼   ► and then just read that that's really [TS]

00:22:05 ◼   ► all but I CS is good for people who are [TS]

00:22:07 ◼   ► interested in TV is you [TS]

00:22:09 ◼   ► they find out that like it's a it's not [TS]

00:22:11 ◼   ► an interesting year where nothing good [TS]

00:22:12 ◼   ► has happened or you find out like [TS]

00:22:14 ◼   ► however still obsessed with 3d or [TS]

00:22:16 ◼   ► everyone is still obsessed with curved [TS]

00:22:17 ◼   ► screens or some other chemical you don't [TS]

00:22:18 ◼   ► like this year the gimmick seems to be [TS]

00:22:20 ◼   ► identical range which I am interested in [TS]

00:22:23 ◼   ► and I hope is an emerging standards and [TS]

00:22:25 ◼   ► will be like this is a picture it's a [TS]

00:22:27 ◼   ► legitimate picture quality improvement [TS]

00:22:29 ◼   ► not something that's chemically like 3d [TS]

00:22:32 ◼   ► and not something that's ridiculous like [TS]

00:22:34 ◼   ► the curve so I I'm glad for that to be [TS]

00:22:39 ◼   ► the new thing this year but if it's the [TS]

00:22:41 ◼   ► new thing this mirror that means all the [TS]

00:22:43 ◼   ► televisions that have any kind of [TS]

00:22:44 ◼   ► support for this year going to be like [TS]

00:22:46 ◼   ► the very first generation that tries to [TS]

00:22:48 ◼   ► support and maybe they're competing [TS]

00:22:49 ◼   ► standards and that's all I got to work [TS]

00:22:50 ◼   ► itself out so it's still not time to buy [TS]

00:22:53 ◼   ► a TV but i'd like to read about that but [TS]

00:22:55 ◼   ► I haven't yet so I don't think so yes is [TS]

00:22:58 ◼   ► a total loss is just like a ninety-eight [TS]

00:23:00 ◼   ► percent loss [TS]

00:23:01 ◼   ► wow what a low bar that we expect it [TS]

00:23:05 ◼   ► God soso John your summary of the TV [TS]

00:23:09 ◼   ► news coming out of CES is I'm ready yet [TS]

00:23:12 ◼   ► that's my i will give next week i will [TS]

00:23:14 ◼   ► know more but my summary is it seems [TS]

00:23:16 ◼   ► like I dynamic ranges the thing is here [TS]

00:23:19 ◼   ► and I don't know whether everyone is [TS]

00:23:22 ◼   ► over the curved screen thing it freaking [TS]

00:23:24 ◼   ► we should we should actually said i [TS]

00:23:27 ◼   ► would love to send you to las vegas for [TS]

00:23:29 ◼   ► this week just just to just to capture [TS]

00:23:31 ◼   ► the misery of that trip that like I [TS]

00:23:34 ◼   ► would be I would go for that if it was [TS]

00:23:36 ◼   ► just to film you being there nobody [TS]

00:23:38 ◼   ► wants to go to see nobody does that's [TS]

00:23:40 ◼   ► the thing that I think people understand [TS]

00:23:42 ◼   ► like for those who know a lot of people [TS]

00:23:45 ◼   ► who cover CS as part of their job [TS]

00:23:48 ◼   ► nobody likes it like people like going [TS]

00:23:50 ◼   ► to back a day people like going to [TS]

00:23:52 ◼   ► Macworld to cover it if you're [TS]

00:23:53 ◼   ► interested in apple stuff people like [TS]

00:23:55 ◼   ► going to w3c people like going to google [TS]

00:23:57 ◼   ► i/o if you're interested in Google's up [TS]

00:23:58 ◼   ► nobody likes going to see us [TS]

00:24:00 ◼   ► nobody i'm i think a lot about who is [TS]

00:24:02 ◼   ► this for I guess it's is it for like [TS]

00:24:04 ◼   ► retailers or advertisers John it's the [TS]

00:24:09 ◼   ► consumer electronics Sean [TS]

00:24:11 ◼   ► no I mean it seems like there's a lot of [TS]

00:24:14 ◼   ► legitimate reasons for some people to be [TS]

00:24:16 ◼   ► there seems like there's a lot of like [TS]

00:24:17 ◼   ► meeting with the reps that happens in [TS]

00:24:19 ◼   ► private meetings that can be very useful [TS]

00:24:21 ◼   ► to people but to actually be on the show [TS]

00:24:23 ◼   ► floor I don't really know who that's for [TS]

00:24:25 ◼   ► necessarily besides like people who are [TS]

00:24:28 ◼   ► tasked with covering it and who as you [TS]

00:24:30 ◼   ► said usually hate this job because it is [TS]

00:24:32 ◼   ► grueling and and pretty pretty intense [TS]

00:24:35 ◼   ► but even people who are meeting with the [TS]

00:24:36 ◼   ► reps behind closed doors I think they [TS]

00:24:38 ◼   ► like the meetings but they wish they [TS]

00:24:39 ◼   ► could meet basically anywhere in the [TS]

00:24:41 ◼   ► world of the CGS like all come to your [TS]

00:24:45 ◼   ► city where is your company located i [TS]

00:24:47 ◼   ► will fly the your city and do i mean i [TS]

00:24:48 ◼   ► guess maybe it seems I just I just never [TS]

00:24:50 ◼   ► heard anyone say I can't wait to go to [TS]

00:24:53 ◼   ► see yes [TS]

00:24:54 ◼   ► nobody not vendors not people who are [TS]

00:24:56 ◼   ► going to meet with vendors like maybe [TS]

00:24:59 ◼   ► the most circles on traveling like [TS]

00:25:00 ◼   ► people who were like some a buyer for a [TS]

00:25:03 ◼   ► big store chain like the best buy person [TS]

00:25:05 ◼   ► or something you want to go to see what [TS]

00:25:06 ◼   ► they're gonna buy for that maybe they [TS]

00:25:08 ◼   ► look forward to it just seems it's like [TS]

00:25:10 ◼   ► the worst of it I think of everything [TS]

00:25:12 ◼   ► that's bad about conferences and [TS]

00:25:14 ◼   ► concentrated and then i can multiply by [TS]

00:25:15 ◼   ► 5 kinda like III used to be but at least [TS]

00:25:18 ◼   ► III was exciting for people who weren't [TS]

00:25:20 ◼   ► there like even III was at its worst [TS]

00:25:22 ◼   ► I've ever been to three but i know a lot [TS]

00:25:24 ◼   ► of people have even III was at its worst [TS]

00:25:25 ◼   ► was just completely overblown and nobody [TS]

00:25:29 ◼   ► really you know it's exhausting and [TS]

00:25:30 ◼   ► nobody wanted to cover it [TS]

00:25:31 ◼   ► it was exciting for people who weren't [TS]

00:25:33 ◼   ► there because he would say I can't wait [TS]

00:25:34 ◼   ► to see what announced at e3 so you know [TS]

00:25:37 ◼   ► if you want you want to read the [TS]

00:25:38 ◼   ► coverage you get excited but my [TS]

00:25:40 ◼   ► impression of cs is that people who are [TS]

00:25:42 ◼   ► there don't want to be there and people [TS]

00:25:43 ◼   ► aren't there don't want to read about [TS]

00:25:44 ◼   ► mysterious our second punch this week is [TS]

00:25:48 ◼   ► a glue go to a glue software.com / ATP [TS]

00:25:52 ◼   ► for internet you will actually like [TS]

00:25:54 ◼   ► anyone has worked in a corporate [TS]

00:25:56 ◼   ► environment knows how painful Internet [TS]

00:25:58 ◼   ► can be the contents tail the interface [TS]

00:26:00 ◼   ► is ugly and you can't access on your [TS]

00:26:02 ◼   ► phone or any kind of modern device made [TS]

00:26:04 ◼   ► after the year 2010 now igloo is an [TS]

00:26:06 ◼   ► internet you will actually like because [TS]

00:26:08 ◼   ► it is designed with modern technology [TS]

00:26:10 ◼   ► and modern sensibilities for real [TS]

00:26:12 ◼   ► usability Italy give you the flexibility [TS]

00:26:15 ◼   ► to get your work done how you want where [TS]

00:26:17 ◼   ► you want and whatever device you want [TS]

00:26:19 ◼   ► their truly building a product meant for [TS]

00:26:21 ◼   ► 2016 and beyond [TS]

00:26:23 ◼   ► not the nineties [TS]

00:26:24 ◼   ► with a glue internets you can share news [TS]

00:26:27 ◼   ► organize your files coordinate calendars [TS]

00:26:29 ◼   ► and manage projects all in one place [TS]

00:26:32 ◼   ► everything can be optionally social with [TS]

00:26:34 ◼   ► comments like buttons revisions messages [TS]

00:26:37 ◼   ► and anyone can add content based on [TS]

00:26:39 ◼   ► their permissions with drag-and-drop [TS]

00:26:41 ◼   ► widgets and what you see is what you get [TS]

00:26:43 ◼   ► editor in a blue makes use of responsive [TS]

00:26:46 ◼   ► web design so it looks fantastic on all [TS]

00:26:49 ◼   ► your devices whether they exist today or [TS]

00:26:51 ◼   ► where they're going to come out tomorrow [TS]

00:26:52 ◼   ► it will already look good because it is [TS]

00:26:54 ◼   ► fully responsive modern web design with [TS]

00:26:56 ◼   ► modern social and and collaborative [TS]

00:26:58 ◼   ► features that so that you won't have [TS]

00:27:00 ◼   ► your employees going out to use things [TS]

00:27:02 ◼   ► like you know dropbox and Twitter and [TS]

00:27:04 ◼   ► like all the stuff that is public that [TS]

00:27:06 ◼   ► you that you want to keep the stuff [TS]

00:27:07 ◼   ► inside your company inside your internet [TS]

00:27:09 ◼   ► igloo is very corporate friendly they [TS]

00:27:12 ◼   ► that they're very secure the vehicle is [TS]

00:27:13 ◼   ► granting permissions all the stuff that [TS]

00:27:15 ◼   ► you need to sell to your company [TS]

00:27:17 ◼   ► it's even free to use forever for up to [TS]

00:27:19 ◼   ► 10 people so check it out today a glue [TS]

00:27:21 ◼   ► software com / ATP free to use up to 10 [TS]

00:27:24 ◼   ► people and very reasonably priced after [TS]

00:27:26 ◼   ► that and at any size you get a free [TS]

00:27:28 ◼   ► trial so check it out today it was [TS]

00:27:30 ◼   ► software com / ATP for that free trial [TS]

00:27:33 ◼   ► get started now thanks a lot to glue the [TS]

00:27:35 ◼   ► internet you'll actually like so a few [TS]

00:27:39 ◼   ► weeks ago we started talking about Swift [TS]

00:27:41 ◼   ► being open sourced and then we got [TS]

00:27:44 ◼   ► sidetracked by i'm not even sure what [TS]

00:27:46 ◼   ► but here we are again scraping at the [TS]

00:27:48 ◼   ► bottom of the barrel so why don't we [TS]

00:27:50 ◼   ► talk a little more about switched open [TS]

00:27:51 ◼   ► source and actually talk about something [TS]

00:27:53 ◼   ► that's cool which is the swift code of [TS]

00:27:54 ◼   ► conduct or if you let me talk with the [TS]

00:27:56 ◼   ► mac pro some more so that without the [TS]

00:27:58 ◼   ► swift code of conduct [TS]

00:27:59 ◼   ► yeah we got to order the equivalent of [TS]

00:28:01 ◼   ► the ball gets a burrowing topic after [TS]

00:28:02 ◼   ► this but the code of conduct is a thing [TS]

00:28:04 ◼   ► that has been happening over the past [TS]

00:28:07 ◼   ► I'd say year so has become more popular [TS]

00:28:09 ◼   ► every sort of open source project or [TS]

00:28:11 ◼   ► volunteer based community thing or [TS]

00:28:14 ◼   ► conferences around sort of any sort of [TS]

00:28:16 ◼   ► ad hoc collection of people especially [TS]

00:28:19 ◼   ► in the tech world has been starting to [TS]

00:28:21 ◼   ► have an actual written down code of [TS]

00:28:24 ◼   ► conduct that is exactly what it sounds [TS]

00:28:25 ◼   ► like it's sort of yeah [TS]

00:28:27 ◼   ► set set of rules or expectations of [TS]

00:28:31 ◼   ► behavior like just to give examples you [TS]

00:28:33 ◼   ► could have a code of conduct for [TS]

00:28:35 ◼   ► I don't know a website where people join [TS]

00:28:38 ◼   ► want to talk about knitting and the code [TS]

00:28:39 ◼   ► of conduct could say if you want to [TS]

00:28:41 ◼   ► participate and admitting forms and talk [TS]

00:28:43 ◼   ► about knitting [TS]

00:28:44 ◼   ► we don't want you to use curse words or [TS]

00:28:47 ◼   ► whatever and then you can decide hey I [TS]

00:28:49 ◼   ► don't want to be part of a community [TS]

00:28:50 ◼   ► where I can't curse so you won't join [TS]

00:28:52 ◼   ► that knitting community right but it [TS]

00:28:54 ◼   ► sets clear expectations like here is how [TS]

00:28:56 ◼   ► we expect people to behave and it gives [TS]

00:28:57 ◼   ► you something like if someone misbehave [TS]

00:28:59 ◼   ► you can point the code of conduct hey we [TS]

00:29:01 ◼   ► have a code of conduct here this is how [TS]

00:29:02 ◼   ► it's going to be these are the rules if [TS]

00:29:04 ◼   ► you don't like it you should go [TS]

00:29:05 ◼   ► someplace that's a different set of [TS]

00:29:06 ◼   ► rules and it's like that for open source [TS]

00:29:10 ◼   ► projects for conferences where like I'm [TS]

00:29:12 ◼   ► going to show this conference is going [TS]

00:29:13 ◼   ► to be a conference my favorite [TS]

00:29:14 ◼   ► programming language and there's going [TS]

00:29:17 ◼   ► to be talks and everything what are the [TS]

00:29:18 ◼   ► expectations what what kind of behavior [TS]

00:29:20 ◼   ► isn't allowed what who [TS]

00:29:22 ◼   ► how how are the people in this community [TS]

00:29:24 ◼   ► expected to be a there's been minimal [TS]

00:29:27 ◼   ► push back to the idea of a code of [TS]

00:29:29 ◼   ► conduct is a lot of nerds are very [TS]

00:29:30 ◼   ► literal-minded and don't really see the [TS]

00:29:33 ◼   ► nuances and things is a well code of [TS]

00:29:35 ◼   ► conduct doesn't actually make people [TS]

00:29:36 ◼   ► behave in a certain way you're right it [TS]

00:29:37 ◼   ► doesn't but by writing it down you're [TS]

00:29:39 ◼   ► setting expectations i can do for kids [TS]

00:29:41 ◼   ► or whatever there any sort of that it [TS]

00:29:44 ◼   ► just it's it's more comfortable to know [TS]

00:29:46 ◼   ► what is expected because that was [TS]

00:29:48 ◼   ► everybody decide if they want to be a [TS]

00:29:50 ◼   ► part of a community with this set of [TS]

00:29:53 ◼   ► sort of rules and guidelines if you know [TS]

00:29:55 ◼   ► we're going to get interesting thing if [TS]

00:29:57 ◼   ► you think not being allowed to curse is [TS]

00:29:58 ◼   ► stupid you know right away this is not [TS]

00:30:01 ◼   ► in any community for me I should go [TS]

00:30:03 ◼   ► someplace else where people are knitting [TS]

00:30:04 ◼   ► and also like the curse right and on a [TS]

00:30:09 ◼   ► minute stuff in terms of like making [TS]

00:30:10 ◼   ► jokes other peoples expense or like any [TS]

00:30:14 ◼   ► sort of aggressive behavior and even [TS]

00:30:18 ◼   ► just right now stuff like no violence no [TS]

00:30:20 ◼   ► hitting other people so I guess mostly [TS]

00:30:21 ◼   ► like that you do for little kids you set [TS]

00:30:23 ◼   ► the expectations of you know here's how [TS]

00:30:25 ◼   ► you expected to behave in preschool [TS]

00:30:26 ◼   ► no biting your friends expect you to [TS]

00:30:28 ◼   ► share the teacher is talking expect you [TS]

00:30:30 ◼   ► to listen you know everybody eats at [TS]

00:30:33 ◼   ► this time and maps at this time or [TS]

00:30:34 ◼   ► whatever you doesn't mean that's all [TS]

00:30:36 ◼   ► going to happen but you just want to [TS]

00:30:37 ◼   ► write it down and I said the pushback is [TS]

00:30:41 ◼   ► mostly of people thinking that you are [TS]

00:30:46 ◼   ► you saying if we don't have a code of [TS]

00:30:47 ◼   ► conduct we allow those things are the [TS]

00:30:49 ◼   ► stuff [TS]

00:30:49 ◼   ► to go without saying or writing it down [TS]

00:30:50 ◼   ► makes it seem like we're we're telling [TS]

00:30:54 ◼   ► people that are coming here that are [TS]

00:30:55 ◼   ► going to behave badly why do we need to [TS]

00:30:56 ◼   ► write down stuff like don't murder [TS]

00:30:57 ◼   ► people like they should know that [TS]

00:30:59 ◼   ► already or are you trying to make it [TS]

00:31:00 ◼   ► sound like we're a bunch of murderers [TS]

00:31:01 ◼   ► here or really what's under the covers a [TS]

00:31:04 ◼   ► lot of it is [TS]

00:31:05 ◼   ► say you're just coming up with the code [TS]

00:31:08 ◼   ► of conduct can be like especially like [TS]

00:31:10 ◼   ► programming projects or whatever like if [TS]

00:31:14 ◼   ► there are debates about technical issues [TS]

00:31:15 ◼   ► which we'll get to in a second debate [TS]

00:31:18 ◼   ► the issue don't debate the person don't [TS]

00:31:20 ◼   ► know ad hominem attacks when you're [TS]

00:31:22 ◼   ► discussing some features and programming [TS]

00:31:23 ◼   ► language or open-source project don't [TS]

00:31:26 ◼   ► call the other people other person's [TS]

00:31:27 ◼   ► jerk or an idiot [TS]

00:31:29 ◼   ► do not attack the person or that person [TS]

00:31:30 ◼   ► is personal history keep your debate to [TS]

00:31:33 ◼   ► the topic at hand and again this may [TS]

00:31:35 ◼   ► sound like yeah these all sound like [TS]

00:31:37 ◼   ► reasonable rules whatever it's like [TS]

00:31:38 ◼   ► little things you do for kids but at a [TS]

00:31:40 ◼   ► certain point people push back against [TS]

00:31:42 ◼   ► that an example is the linux kernel [TS]

00:31:43 ◼   ► mailing list where linus torvalds or [TS]

00:31:47 ◼   ► penis or ever you want to set the [TS]

00:31:49 ◼   ► creator of linux very often is that uses [TS]

00:31:53 ◼   ► very salty language so again like [TS]

00:31:54 ◼   ► bending form of linux kernel mountain [TS]

00:31:57 ◼   ► was totally allowed to use curse words [TS]

00:31:58 ◼   ► that's in there you know if they had a [TS]

00:31:59 ◼   ► contract which i'm not sure if you do [TS]

00:32:01 ◼   ► but if they did it would be in there [TS]

00:32:02 ◼   ► because that's that's sort of what to [TS]

00:32:04 ◼   ► expect and has been known to say pretty [TS]

00:32:06 ◼   ► mean things about people not just about [TS]

00:32:09 ◼   ► their thing you know like it's it's a [TS]

00:32:11 ◼   ► it's a there is a fine line am i calling [TS]

00:32:14 ◼   ► when I say this is the stupidest idea [TS]

00:32:16 ◼   ► I've ever heard [TS]

00:32:17 ◼   ► I'm kind of criticizing the idea but I'm [TS]

00:32:19 ◼   ► also kind of being mean about it or [TS]

00:32:21 ◼   ► whatever anyway that community has [TS]

00:32:23 ◼   ► pushed back against the idea of trying [TS]

00:32:24 ◼   ► to be more civil to each other or more [TS]

00:32:26 ◼   ► civil to each others ideas or anything [TS]

00:32:28 ◼   ► like that so that's you know that's the [TS]

00:32:29 ◼   ► kind of community one if you were to [TS]

00:32:31 ◼   ► come in there and they were to try to [TS]

00:32:32 ◼   ► come up with a code of conduct and they [TS]

00:32:34 ◼   ► make a set of rules that past behavior [TS]

00:32:35 ◼   ► doesn't fit into the people with the [TS]

00:32:37 ◼   ► past behavior feel like they're now [TS]

00:32:38 ◼   ► being excluded from the community that [TS]

00:32:39 ◼   ► they're important part anyway all this [TS]

00:32:42 ◼   ► is a big grand way to say that Swift is [TS]

00:32:44 ◼   ► doing what I think is the right thing [TS]

00:32:45 ◼   ► which is from the very beginning having [TS]

00:32:48 ◼   ► a go to conduct and I look at the code [TS]

00:32:49 ◼   ► of conduct and it seems pretty saying [TS]

00:32:52 ◼   ► and and pretty tame and i think it is a [TS]

00:32:55 ◼   ► good thing for anybody whether it's in a [TS]

00:32:58 ◼   ► preschool or knitting club or an open [TS]

00:33:01 ◼   ► source project or website [TS]

00:33:02 ◼   ► to our web form or anything to write [TS]

00:33:05 ◼   ► down their code of conduct as early as [TS]

00:33:07 ◼   ► possible and revisited as needed and [TS]

00:33:10 ◼   ► amended and clarify and so on so forth [TS]

00:33:13 ◼   ► just to have a starting point and a [TS]

00:33:15 ◼   ► guideline instead of just assuming [TS]

00:33:16 ◼   ► everybody will behave and all agree [TS]

00:33:18 ◼   ► about what proper behavior is it's [TS]

00:33:20 ◼   ► pretty sad that it's come to this point [TS]

00:33:22 ◼   ► but i think that the one universal [TS]

00:33:26 ◼   ► internet truth is that even if you don't [TS]

00:33:29 ◼   ► act like a petulant child upfront anyone [TS]

00:33:32 ◼   ► on the internet is but the smallest push [TS]

00:33:34 ◼   ► away from being a petulant child and and [TS]

00:33:37 ◼   ► i agree with you this is a good thing to [TS]

00:33:39 ◼   ► have this reminds me of the post by was [TS]

00:33:42 ◼   ► randi harper's that right that because [TS]

00:33:44 ◼   ► that shows what happens if you don't [TS]

00:33:45 ◼   ► have a code of conduct and if you don't [TS]

00:33:47 ◼   ► think about these issues right so she [TS]

00:33:50 ◼   ► had posted this is freebsd or well the [TS]

00:33:52 ◼   ► the woman who used to be known as [TS]

00:33:54 ◼   ► previously girl she posted recently [TS]

00:33:57 ◼   ► really really good and not terribly long [TS]

00:33:59 ◼   ► post about how she was treated in the [TS]

00:34:00 ◼   ► bsd community and its really pretty [TS]

00:34:02 ◼   ► deplorable and in its in you could argue [TS]

00:34:06 ◼   ► just like Marco said that is in no small [TS]

00:34:08 ◼   ► part because they didn't really have an [TS]

00:34:09 ◼   ► established code of conduct and then [TS]

00:34:11 ◼   ► even when they did if you believe what [TS]

00:34:13 ◼   ► she says which I do you know they didn't [TS]

00:34:14 ◼   ► act they didn't act fairly once once [TS]

00:34:18 ◼   ► there were issues escalated which is [TS]

00:34:21 ◼   ► really too bad but that will put a link [TS]

00:34:23 ◼   ► to that in the show notes in and if you [TS]

00:34:25 ◼   ► work in any sort of community I i highly [TS]

00:34:29 ◼   ► recommend reading her post because it it [TS]

00:34:32 ◼   ► was fascinating and a code of conduct by [TS]

00:34:35 ◼   ► as many people that does not guarantee [TS]

00:34:37 ◼   ► good behavior because there's issues of [TS]

00:34:38 ◼   ► enforcement and those debates about how [TS]

00:34:40 ◼   ► should things be enforced is it [TS]

00:34:42 ◼   ► enforceable at all like another reason [TS]

00:34:44 ◼   ► people shy away from code of conduct as [TS]

00:34:45 ◼   ► I think it opens up this big can of [TS]

00:34:47 ◼   ► orange nail off the debates but these [TS]

00:34:48 ◼   ► are these are important things to talk [TS]

00:34:50 ◼   ► about and it's better to talk about them [TS]

00:34:51 ◼   ► before anything has happened like sorted [TS]

00:34:54 ◼   ► out amongst yourselves not in not in [TS]

00:34:57 ◼   ► light of some actual event because it's [TS]

00:34:59 ◼   ► so much harder to figure it out in life [TS]

00:35:00 ◼   ► no it's very difficult to come up with a [TS]

00:35:03 ◼   ► good set of rules and figure out how [TS]

00:35:05 ◼   ► you're going to enforce them and to [TS]

00:35:06 ◼   ► follow through on it but it's so much [TS]

00:35:08 ◼   ► better to engage in that process than to [TS]

00:35:12 ◼   ► bury your head in the sand because [TS]

00:35:13 ◼   ► engagement process will first of all [TS]

00:35:14 ◼   ► people making the policies that will [TS]

00:35:16 ◼   ► force you to think about things like [TS]

00:35:17 ◼   ► hopefully you'll go and say let me look [TS]

00:35:19 ◼   ► at the people's code of conduct let me [TS]

00:35:20 ◼   ► look what they wrote down and I think [TS]

00:35:22 ◼   ► collectively all the codes of conduct of [TS]

00:35:24 ◼   ► various the communities and open-source [TS]

00:35:26 ◼   ► products are getting better by looking [TS]

00:35:27 ◼   ► at each other in the open source kind of [TS]

00:35:29 ◼   ► way and say what are they run down how [TS]

00:35:30 ◼   ► they phrase this what kind of all I [TS]

00:35:32 ◼   ► didn't even think of that we should put [TS]

00:35:33 ◼   ► that into because I believe that but it [TS]

00:35:34 ◼   ► wouldn't have even occurred to me to [TS]

00:35:35 ◼   ► write it because i'm not in that group [TS]

00:35:37 ◼   ► of marginalized people and didn't [TS]

00:35:38 ◼   ► realize that was the thing we had to [TS]

00:35:40 ◼   ► write down but i totally agree with that [TS]

00:35:41 ◼   ► now that i see it and you know get it [TS]

00:35:43 ◼   ► all down ahead of time and then you're [TS]

00:35:46 ◼   ► gonna have you no incidents and then you [TS]

00:35:49 ◼   ► have to figure out how to deal with them [TS]

00:35:50 ◼   ► and then you look at half of the palpa [TS]

00:35:52 ◼   ► dealt with events and read you know it [TS]

00:35:53 ◼   ► read Randy's thing and say here's how [TS]

00:35:55 ◼   ► this community tried to deal with this [TS]

00:35:57 ◼   ► event and here here's how it went badly [TS]

00:35:59 ◼   ► how can we avoid that [TS]

00:36:01 ◼   ► what kind of policies can we have in [TS]

00:36:02 ◼   ► place to help with it no one's gonna be [TS]

00:36:03 ◼   ► perfect it's not a guarantee of anything [TS]

00:36:05 ◼   ► it just shows that you are engaged in [TS]

00:36:08 ◼   ► the process that you are committed to [TS]

00:36:09 ◼   ► the idea that you can manage your [TS]

00:36:12 ◼   ► community to be what you wanted to be to [TS]

00:36:15 ◼   ► be a more welcoming community to be a [TS]

00:36:17 ◼   ► successful community for the kind of [TS]

00:36:19 ◼   ► people that you want you can make a code [TS]

00:36:21 ◼   ► of conduct that sets totally different [TS]

00:36:23 ◼   ► kinds of rules but it's so much better [TS]

00:36:24 ◼   ► to just think about like Who I want what [TS]

00:36:27 ◼   ► I want here [TS]

00:36:28 ◼   ► do I want people who are really [TS]

00:36:30 ◼   ► technically skilled but also really [TS]

00:36:32 ◼   ► really angry and mean all the time if [TS]

00:36:34 ◼   ► you want that like right into your code [TS]

00:36:36 ◼   ► of conduct like that there's an [TS]

00:36:38 ◼   ► expectation you'll be berated and curse [TS]

00:36:40 ◼   ► that and we only accept people who have [TS]

00:36:44 ◼   ► the highest of skills i'd like to build [TS]

00:36:46 ◼   ► the community you want for yourself [TS]

00:36:47 ◼   ► whatever it is that you want but it's [TS]

00:36:50 ◼   ► much better to to take on that task as [TS]

00:36:53 ◼   ► an actual thing rather than falling [TS]

00:36:55 ◼   ► ass-backwards into it's sort of like you [TS]

00:36:58 ◼   ► just end up with this community and [TS]

00:36:59 ◼   ► you're not quite sure how you got there [TS]

00:37:01 ◼   ► so that that's what I think the [TS]

00:37:03 ◼   ► important buttons and switches very [TS]

00:37:05 ◼   ► sensible and they're coming it [TS]

00:37:06 ◼   ► relatively late in the game to Swift was [TS]

00:37:08 ◼   ► an open source project until recently [TS]

00:37:09 ◼   ► and I think they're benefiting from [TS]

00:37:12 ◼   ► all the other code of conduct that have [TS]

00:37:15 ◼   ► come before them and at this point it's [TS]

00:37:19 ◼   ► kind of the type of thing where if you [TS]

00:37:20 ◼   ► are a community or an open source [TS]

00:37:22 ◼   ► project without a code of conduct people [TS]

00:37:26 ◼   ► are going to ask why why don't you have [TS]

00:37:29 ◼   ► one [TS]

00:37:30 ◼   ► maybe you should think about not the [TS]

00:37:31 ◼   ► same your bed or anything but they're [TS]

00:37:32 ◼   ► saying you may not have thought too much [TS]

00:37:34 ◼   ► about this but history has shown that is [TS]

00:37:37 ◼   ► a good thing to have and the active [TS]

00:37:39 ◼   ► thinking about it will lead you to be a [TS]

00:37:41 ◼   ► better community [TS]

00:37:43 ◼   ► agreed alright what else is going on [TS]

00:37:46 ◼   ► with Swift this is a program every topic [TS]

00:37:48 ◼   ► enough market talks about all these [TS]

00:37:49 ◼   ► under the radar but I save one for here [TS]

00:37:51 ◼   ► I think you got to this one's kind of [TS]

00:37:52 ◼   ► esoteric but I continue to follow the [TS]

00:37:55 ◼   ► Swift evolution mailing list or try to [TS]

00:37:57 ◼   ► follow anyway it's still still pretty [TS]

00:37:58 ◼   ► high volume where the people talk about [TS]

00:38:00 ◼   ► the future Swift and make proposals and [TS]

00:38:03 ◼   ► debate them and go through all sorts of [TS]

00:38:06 ◼   ► things this big process of evolving [TS]

00:38:08 ◼   ► Swift is becoming more formalized with [TS]

00:38:11 ◼   ► different phases of whatever anyway this [TS]

00:38:14 ◼   ► one particular proposal that I thought [TS]

00:38:16 ◼   ► started to get at the heart of what [TS]

00:38:18 ◼   ► seems to be one of the big internal [TS]

00:38:19 ◼   ► struggles between Swift and the [TS]

00:38:22 ◼   ► community formerly known as the [TS]

00:38:24 ◼   ► objective-c development community [TS]

00:38:26 ◼   ► I guess they're still not as that but [TS]

00:38:27 ◼   ► anyway all the people are writing all [TS]

00:38:29 ◼   ► the code objective-c an apple saying you [TS]

00:38:32 ◼   ► guys should think about moving Swift [TS]

00:38:34 ◼   ► some point because we are and this is a [TS]

00:38:37 ◼   ► debate around things that are allowed [TS]

00:38:40 ◼   ► and disallowed static and dynamic you [TS]

00:38:43 ◼   ► know free or clamp down and this [TS]

00:38:46 ◼   ► particular one is about whether classes [TS]

00:38:49 ◼   ► should be final by default in Swift as [TS]

00:38:51 ◼   ► in if you don't say anything one way or [TS]

00:38:56 ◼   ► the other in your defining class and [TS]

00:38:57 ◼   ► Swift should that class b sub classical [TS]

00:39:00 ◼   ► and commendable and be able to do you [TS]

00:39:02 ◼   ► know extended and have things [TS]

00:39:04 ◼   ► overwritten or by default should be all [TS]

00:39:06 ◼   ► closed up and you can't screw with it [TS]

00:39:07 ◼   ► and it's not really a question about [TS]

00:39:10 ◼   ► capability because no one is saying all [TS]

00:39:13 ◼   ► classes should be all closed up and [TS]

00:39:15 ◼   ► final for all classes should be open [TS]

00:39:17 ◼   ► it's just a question of what the [TS]

00:39:18 ◼   ► defaults are in the defaults have two [TS]

00:39:21 ◼   ► effects one is obviously affects [TS]

00:39:24 ◼   ► the actual code because a lot of people [TS]

00:39:26 ◼   ► just take the default right you know and [TS]

00:39:29 ◼   ► then so if if no one does anything and [TS]

00:39:30 ◼   ► they just do class and I don't know [TS]

00:39:32 ◼   ► about this particular keyword don't [TS]

00:39:33 ◼   ► think about it what do they get by [TS]

00:39:35 ◼   ► default and the second thing is by [TS]

00:39:37 ◼   ► choosing the default if people think [TS]

00:39:38 ◼   ► about it for a little bit they'll see [TS]

00:39:41 ◼   ► it's like a signal from the design [TS]

00:39:43 ◼   ► language we think most of your classes [TS]

00:39:45 ◼   ► should be like this it's the default but [TS]

00:39:48 ◼   ► if you have special needs make your [TS]

00:39:51 ◼   ► class like this and like having a java [TS]

00:39:56 ◼   ► you know the default is not final [TS]

00:39:58 ◼   ► I don't know my job i think that's the [TS]

00:39:59 ◼   ► case and so what they're saying is by [TS]

00:40:01 ◼   ► default in Java of you declare a class [TS]

00:40:03 ◼   ► you can sub class but that that's that's [TS]

00:40:06 ◼   ► we think that's the common case but if [TS]

00:40:07 ◼   ► you have special needs like say for [TS]

00:40:09 ◼   ► performance reasons or you really don't [TS]

00:40:11 ◼   ► want people extending your class you can [TS]

00:40:13 ◼   ► declare it to be final by adding this [TS]

00:40:14 ◼   ► other keyword and so that means that [TS]

00:40:17 ◼   ► most people just like a Java class blah [TS]

00:40:19 ◼   ► blah blah blah [TS]

00:40:20 ◼   ► they're all getting glasses it could be [TS]

00:40:21 ◼   ► some class and extended all that stuff [TS]

00:40:23 ◼   ► because that's the default and also [TS]

00:40:25 ◼   ► philosophically speaking it's so clear [TS]

00:40:27 ◼   ► the java really expect people to [TS]

00:40:28 ◼   ► subclass your stuff and that the [TS]

00:40:30 ◼   ► exception to the rule is all you wanna [TS]

00:40:32 ◼   ► make you think finally all closed off or [TS]

00:40:34 ◼   ► whatever sorry if I'm getting this job [TS]

00:40:35 ◼   ► mrs. this job a default thing backwards [TS]

00:40:38 ◼   ► i haven't touched job in a really long [TS]

00:40:40 ◼   ► time somebody named job and not 13 in [TS]

00:40:43 ◼   ► the chat says it is not final by default [TS]

00:40:45 ◼   ► and I think they would probably know [TS]

00:40:47 ◼   ► because their name is java nuts well [TS]

00:40:49 ◼   ► yeah there's no way they could have [TS]

00:40:50 ◼   ► changed their name to java not know but [TS]

00:40:52 ◼   ► anyway yeah i think my recollection [TS]

00:40:55 ◼   ► anyway so the proposal for swift is to [TS]

00:40:58 ◼   ► default final and this would make swift [TS]

00:41:00 ◼   ► one of those languages is saying most of [TS]

00:41:03 ◼   ► the time when you make glasses we expect [TS]

00:41:05 ◼   ► them to be like done but sometimes you [TS]

00:41:08 ◼   ► might want someone to be able to extend [TS]

00:41:09 ◼   ► your class and in that case we want you [TS]

00:41:12 ◼   ► to have to put a special keyword or [TS]

00:41:14 ◼   ► whatever in there to say all other [TS]

00:41:16 ◼   ► people like I'm writing a base class and [TS]

00:41:18 ◼   ► other people are supposed to subclass me [TS]

00:41:20 ◼   ► and override these three methods do this [TS]

00:41:22 ◼   ► other thing and this is really again [TS]

00:41:25 ◼   ► it's not really like a technical debate [TS]

00:41:26 ◼   ► because both things would still be [TS]

00:41:27 ◼   ► possible this is really a sort of battle [TS]

00:41:29 ◼   ► for the heart and soul of what Swift is [TS]

00:41:32 ◼   ► and what objective c has been [TS]

00:41:34 ◼   ► I i pulled a little quote here from [TS]

00:41:36 ◼   ► Jordan row so i think is a someone that [TS]

00:41:38 ◼   ► Apple although it's very difficult to [TS]

00:41:40 ◼   ► tell miss evolution list when people are [TS]

00:41:42 ◼   ► speaking for themselves as users of [TS]

00:41:44 ◼   ► swiftor as contributors to the open [TS]

00:41:46 ◼   ► source product and when they're speaking [TS]

00:41:48 ◼   ► as Apple employees kind of implicitly no [TS]

00:41:51 ◼   ► one has ever speaking for Apple because [TS]

00:41:52 ◼   ► no one speaks for Apple except the team [TS]

00:41:54 ◼   ► coco i guess but when there's an apple [TS]

00:41:56 ◼   ► com in their email address like just I [TS]

00:41:58 ◼   ► don't notice that is their opinion carry [TS]

00:42:01 ◼   ► more weight i still haven't quite sorted [TS]

00:42:02 ◼   ► out the sort of uneasy dance between at [TS]

00:42:07 ◼   ► apple.com people like Apple employees [TS]

00:42:09 ◼   ► working on swift and VA the unwashed [TS]

00:42:11 ◼   ► masses of the Swift community and how [TS]

00:42:13 ◼   ► that power balance works and most of the [TS]

00:42:17 ◼   ► most part the back-and-forth has been [TS]

00:42:20 ◼   ► very polite and mostly so i think that [TS]

00:42:22 ◼   ► most people realize look apples doing [TS]

00:42:24 ◼   ► most of the work here and I made the [TS]

00:42:26 ◼   ► language Apple is going to do most of [TS]

00:42:27 ◼   ► the work here so we can have some input [TS]

00:42:29 ◼   ► the bottom line isn't heart you will [TS]

00:42:30 ◼   ► never develop Swift on your own or you [TS]

00:42:32 ◼   ► seven people are going to take swift and [TS]

00:42:34 ◼   ► run with that [TS]

00:42:35 ◼   ► no probably not so all you can really do [TS]

00:42:37 ◼   ► is give your opinion anyway a lot of [TS]

00:42:40 ◼   ► what this default final thing comes down [TS]

00:42:42 ◼   ► to is the expectation by Objective C [TS]

00:42:45 ◼   ► programmers that any sort of framework [TS]

00:42:47 ◼   ► anything in the framework that's like [TS]

00:42:49 ◼   ► not behaving correctly or that you're [TS]

00:42:51 ◼   ► making a subclass of that you can just [TS]

00:42:53 ◼   ► override methods that you want to behave [TS]

00:42:56 ◼   ► in a slightly different way like you can [TS]

00:42:58 ◼   ► even do a lot of interesting things with [TS]

00:43:01 ◼   ► UI kit and a half get by overriding [TS]

00:43:04 ◼   ► things in subclasses even things that [TS]

00:43:07 ◼   ► you know overriding them in ways maybe [TS]

00:43:09 ◼   ► that you know to turn something into a [TS]

00:43:11 ◼   ► no operand make something happen a side [TS]

00:43:13 ◼   ► effect when it didn't have before even [TS]

00:43:15 ◼   ► to do things like me objective-c runtime [TS]

00:43:16 ◼   ► reach in and do what I think they called [TS]

00:43:19 ◼   ► methodists whistling where you just [TS]

00:43:20 ◼   ► reach in there and you screw with the [TS]

00:43:22 ◼   ► implementation of a base class not even [TS]

00:43:24 ◼   ► a subclass but you say you know you've [TS]

00:43:25 ◼   ► got a blonde method i would like you [TS]

00:43:27 ◼   ► I'll save a reference to what the [TS]

00:43:29 ◼   ► original blonde method was but instead [TS]

00:43:31 ◼   ► point your entry for the blog method to [TS]

00:43:32 ◼   ► my code that will do some other crap and [TS]

00:43:34 ◼   ► then call your code and that will modify [TS]

00:43:35 ◼   ► everybody uses this grass not my sub [TS]

00:43:37 ◼   ► class but the base glass everywhere and [TS]

00:43:39 ◼   ► those are the types of things you can do [TS]

00:43:42 ◼   ► when classes are not entirely closed off [TS]

00:43:44 ◼   ► when you have access to their guts [TS]

00:43:45 ◼   ► can screw with them and then you know [TS]

00:43:47 ◼   ► subclassing above and beyond that so i [TS]

00:43:49 ◼   ► get back to what Jordan Rhodes said here [TS]

00:43:50 ◼   ► he says supporting arbitrary code [TS]

00:43:53 ◼   ► injection into someone else's framework [TS]

00:43:54 ◼   ► is a non goal for swift perhaps even an [TS]

00:43:56 ◼   ► anti goal if you replace a method and [TS]

00:43:59 ◼   ► someone else's class you don't actually [TS]

00:44:00 ◼   ► know what semantics that relying on of [TS]

00:44:02 ◼   ► course Apple code will have bugs in it [TS]

00:44:03 ◼   ► trying to patch over those bugs in your [TS]

00:44:04 ◼   ► own code is one obviously not an answer [TS]

00:44:06 ◼   ► apple support but also too fraught with [TS]

00:44:09 ◼   ► peril and three likely to break in the [TS]

00:44:10 ◼   ► next OS release this is referring [TS]

00:44:12 ◼   ► specifically to third-party developers [TS]

00:44:14 ◼   ► saying when things are open and able to [TS]

00:44:18 ◼   ► be screwed with sometimes that's the [TS]

00:44:19 ◼   ► only way we can ship hard a map because [TS]

00:44:21 ◼   ► you've got a bug somewhere deep in your [TS]

00:44:22 ◼   ► framework and sometimes we can you sub [TS]

00:44:25 ◼   ► classes and enough for us to fix and I'm [TS]

00:44:27 ◼   ► to the region to the guts and and mess [TS]

00:44:28 ◼   ► with a method just to make our appt not [TS]

00:44:30 ◼   ► crash we can't wait for you to fix the [TS]

00:44:32 ◼   ► bug apple and a point 1 release because [TS]

00:44:34 ◼   ► that could be two months around we need [TS]

00:44:35 ◼   ► to ship now and our application doesn't [TS]

00:44:37 ◼   ► run on the new OS that you're about to [TS]

00:44:39 ◼   ► release so we love to be able to go into [TS]

00:44:42 ◼   ► some framework thing and new [TS]

00:44:44 ◼   ► quantitative methods are messing with in [TS]

00:44:46 ◼   ► a certain way to work around some [TS]

00:44:48 ◼   ► strange bug or even it's just a simple [TS]

00:44:50 ◼   ► like an animation bug or something that [TS]

00:44:51 ◼   ► crashes you're out but nobody else is [TS]

00:44:53 ◼   ► that third-party developers are used to [TS]

00:44:56 ◼   ► be having the freedom of the objective-c [TS]

00:44:58 ◼   ► runtime to mess with these things but [TS]

00:44:59 ◼   ► Swift really doesn't want that type of [TS]

00:45:02 ◼   ► thing to happen Swift would like it if [TS]

00:45:04 ◼   ► in the future that the you know that [TS]

00:45:08 ◼   ► that is not you know get it's not [TS]

00:45:09 ◼   ► something I want to support they don't [TS]

00:45:10 ◼   ► want you to be able to reach into [TS]

00:45:11 ◼   ► anyone's framework apples or anybody [TS]

00:45:13 ◼   ► else's and say oh you have a bug in [TS]

00:45:15 ◼   ► there I'm gonna fix your mug for you or [TS]

00:45:17 ◼   ► I want your thing almost does what i [TS]

00:45:19 ◼   ► want but this is one behavior doesn't [TS]

00:45:21 ◼   ► have I would like it that if you did [TS]

00:45:22 ◼   ► this one thing I actually didn't trigger [TS]

00:45:23 ◼   ► this other action so I'm just going to [TS]

00:45:25 ◼   ► reach into your guts and screw with it [TS]

00:45:26 ◼   ► and programmers to get used to that [TS]

00:45:29 ◼   ► freedom it's kinda like a that's the [TS]

00:45:32 ◼   ► last resort but it's nice that it's [TS]

00:45:33 ◼   ► there but if you are a developer of [TS]

00:45:35 ◼   ► frameworks you don't know everything to [TS]

00:45:37 ◼   ► the guts your craft messing with it is [TS]

00:45:39 ◼   ► like you don't know what you don't know [TS]

00:45:40 ◼   ► what the semantics of my framework are [TS]

00:45:42 ◼   ► you don't know what invariance the ear [TS]

00:45:45 ◼   ► violet your-your-your violated by [TS]

00:45:47 ◼   ► messing with that value I don't want you [TS]

00:45:48 ◼   ► touching my this this member variable [TS]

00:45:50 ◼   ► you're not even supposed to exist that [TS]

00:45:51 ◼   ► might disappear and then s next OS [TS]

00:45:53 ◼   ► version I don't want you messing with [TS]

00:45:55 ◼   ► ending and things that Michael because [TS]

00:45:56 ◼   ► you don't you don't have [TS]

00:45:57 ◼   ► source code instead even if you did is [TS]

00:45:58 ◼   ► my framework is supposed to be like a [TS]

00:46:00 ◼   ► black box to you just use the public API [TS]

00:46:01 ◼   ► don't mess with my implementation and i [TS]

00:46:05 ◼   ► thought this this battle which is linked [TS]

00:46:07 ◼   ► to the MJ sighs blog post a link to a [TS]

00:46:11 ◼   ► bunch of discussion and to the man with [TS]

00:46:14 ◼   ► itself without losing my list i know [TS]

00:46:16 ◼   ► this is country was fascinating because [TS]

00:46:17 ◼   ► it really does get at the heart of the [TS]

00:46:20 ◼   ► old guard vs the new guard and Swift and [TS]

00:46:23 ◼   ► I really want to hear both of your [TS]

00:46:25 ◼   ► opinions as I because i don't know what [TS]

00:46:28 ◼   ► the c-sharp world is like but I do know [TS]

00:46:29 ◼   ► what the objective c worlds like so and [TS]

00:46:31 ◼   ► Marco if he's ever had to reach into [TS]

00:46:33 ◼   ► some objective c framework and screw [TS]

00:46:35 ◼   ► with it to get his application ship and [TS]

00:46:37 ◼   ► Casey what he thinks of this entire [TS]

00:46:39 ◼   ► battle between the the world of [TS]

00:46:41 ◼   ► framework authors vs the world of [TS]

00:46:43 ◼   ► application developers [TS]

00:46:45 ◼   ► I mean I've never had to swizzle to do [TS]

00:46:48 ◼   ► anything that to me is a is over the [TS]

00:46:52 ◼   ► line of like you really really shouldn't [TS]

00:46:55 ◼   ► do that like that is more dangerous [TS]

00:46:56 ◼   ► subclassing things that that are [TS]

00:47:00 ◼   ► intended to be subclassed in especially [TS]

00:47:03 ◼   ► in uikit I do that a lot and or not a [TS]

00:47:06 ◼   ► lot but I you know I've done that you [TS]

00:47:08 ◼   ► know numerous times over the years i'm [TS]

00:47:10 ◼   ► pretty sure overcast does it does a [TS]

00:47:11 ◼   ► little bit of that reinventing my own [TS]

00:47:15 ◼   ► methods to override parent methods in [TS]

00:47:18 ◼   ► those sub classes that are intended to [TS]

00:47:19 ◼   ► be overwritten I've done that almost I [TS]

00:47:22 ◼   ► totally get it from the developer [TS]

00:47:24 ◼   ► perspective of almost always there is [TS]

00:47:26 ◼   ► something you want to do an app that is [TS]

00:47:29 ◼   ► that there's no other way to do it [TS]

00:47:31 ◼   ► besides sub classing up some UI kit [TS]

00:47:34 ◼   ► thing and you know including my own [TS]

00:47:36 ◼   ► child version of a method and and just [TS]

00:47:38 ◼   ► hoping I call super at the right time if [TS]

00:47:40 ◼   ► I have to at all and just hope nothing [TS]

00:47:42 ◼   ► bad happens [TS]

00:47:43 ◼   ► testing it on the one released that I [TS]

00:47:45 ◼   ► had access to and then shipping and [TS]

00:47:46 ◼   ► hoping it doesn't break in the future [TS]

00:47:47 ◼   ► that to me and and this is all like you [TS]

00:47:51 ◼   ► know your your subclassing but I want to [TS]

00:47:53 ◼   ► do some subclassing public method so [TS]

00:47:55 ◼   ► there is some documentation on them some [TS]

00:47:58 ◼   ► public expectation of how they should [TS]

00:47:59 ◼   ► behave they're fairly stable so that has [TS]

00:48:03 ◼   ► never actually caused problems that i [TS]

00:48:04 ◼   ► know of to do that that way [TS]

00:48:07 ◼   ► and they're there really have been a lot [TS]

00:48:09 ◼   ► of these occasions where the there's a [TS]

00:48:11 ◼   ► limitation in the in the public API [TS]

00:48:14 ◼   ► there's just no better way to do this or [TS]

00:48:17 ◼   ► there is no lived with no other way to [TS]

00:48:19 ◼   ► do this at all and so you have to do [TS]

00:48:22 ◼   ► stuff like that [TS]

00:48:22 ◼   ► this is one of those things where in [TS]

00:48:24 ◼   ► theory it would be nice if you never had [TS]

00:48:26 ◼   ► to do this and if they were if you can [TS]

00:48:28 ◼   ► have all the technical advantages of not [TS]

00:48:31 ◼   ► doing this in a similar way that in [TS]

00:48:33 ◼   ► theory it would be nice if every mac app [TS]

00:48:35 ◼   ► with sandboxed you know and then in [TS]

00:48:37 ◼   ► practice these these strict technical [TS]

00:48:40 ◼   ► limitations get in the way of reality in [TS]

00:48:44 ◼   ► real-world use and they they kind of [TS]

00:48:46 ◼   ► require a level of of competence and [TS]

00:48:50 ◼   ► perfection and expansiveness from apple [TS]

00:48:53 ◼   ► and it's frameworks that in reality [TS]

00:48:55 ◼   ► probably won't come and so it's one of [TS]

00:48:58 ◼   ► the key in theory it's great in three [TS]

00:49:01 ◼   ► the having everything be final by [TS]

00:49:03 ◼   ► default and having no overrides possible [TS]

00:49:05 ◼   ► that sounds great for for academic [TS]

00:49:08 ◼   ► theoretical safety but in practice I [TS]

00:49:12 ◼   ► don't think modern developers with [TS]

00:49:15 ◼   ► apples frameworks are really able to go [TS]

00:49:18 ◼   ► that way the reality that is just not it [TS]

00:49:21 ◼   ► doesn't support that it does not [TS]

00:49:23 ◼   ► apple is not that great and developers [TS]

00:49:25 ◼   ► aren't that flexible to to be required [TS]

00:49:29 ◼   ► to avoid this entire class of [TS]

00:49:31 ◼   ► functionality and possible bug [TS]

00:49:33 ◼   ► avoidances and bug fixes that that [TS]

00:49:35 ◼   ► simple things like subclass overrides [TS]

00:49:38 ◼   ► can provide yeah you know it's really [TS]

00:49:40 ◼   ► hard [TS]

00:49:41 ◼   ► let me start by just quickly [TS]

00:49:43 ◼   ► establishing the c-sharp unsurprisingly [TS]

00:49:45 ◼   ► takes the same approach to this is javas [TS]

00:49:47 ◼   ► except where you say final i would say [TS]

00:49:49 ◼   ► sealed so III know it's seriously [TS]

00:49:52 ◼   ► totally different languages where yeah [TS]

00:49:54 ◼   ► right exactly that's why it is a java [TS]

00:49:55 ◼   ► club no not at all [TS]

00:49:56 ◼   ► so yeah so it's sealed classes to me not [TS]

00:50:00 ◼   ► final but that everything else is [TS]

00:50:02 ◼   ► exactly the same and they are not sealed [TS]

00:50:04 ◼   ► by default and in fact it is striking [TS]

00:50:06 ◼   ► even within Microsoft frameworks to see [TS]

00:50:08 ◼   ► something that sealed [TS]

00:50:09 ◼   ► that's very peculiar that being said I [TS]

00:50:13 ◼   ► think I think the problem is that man [TS]

00:50:17 ◼   ► and John you alluded to this earlier so [TS]

00:50:20 ◼   ► much [TS]

00:50:20 ◼   ► objective-c seems to be about [TS]

00:50:22 ◼   ► subclassing and up over time even from [TS]

00:50:28 ◼   ► my perspective of someone who doesn't [TS]

00:50:29 ◼   ► live in it seems like that starting to [TS]

00:50:31 ◼   ► go away between blocks between should [TS]

00:50:34 ◼   ► something else until my tongue anyway [TS]

00:50:35 ◼   ► it's going away but a lot of legacy [TS]

00:50:39 ◼   ► objective-c seems to be about [TS]

00:50:40 ◼   ► subclassing and subclassing when the [TS]

00:50:45 ◼   ► author of that class hasn't deliberately [TS]

00:50:48 ◼   ► decided for that to be subclass is [TS]

00:50:51 ◼   ► inherently dangerous and so much of [TS]

00:50:54 ◼   ► Swift seems to be about at least in [TS]

00:50:57 ◼   ► comparison to objective-c about [TS]

00:50:59 ◼   ► preventing danger about having stronger [TS]

00:51:01 ◼   ► typing about doing more compile time to [TS]

00:51:04 ◼   ► check and make sure you're not doing [TS]

00:51:05 ◼   ► something stupid so much about Swift [TS]

00:51:08 ◼   ► seems to be about preventing danger and [TS]

00:51:11 ◼   ► about being safer and having [TS]

00:51:14 ◼   ► carte-blanche access with a few [TS]

00:51:16 ◼   ► exceptions to subclass anything is [TS]

00:51:18 ◼   ► inherently dangerous and so it seems to [TS]

00:51:24 ◼   ► me that the academic answer is [TS]

00:51:28 ◼   ► unequivocally that classes should be [TS]

00:51:30 ◼   ► final by default that being said one of [TS]

00:51:34 ◼   ► the things I've struggled with lately [TS]

00:51:36 ◼   ► and co-worker of mine that we we've [TS]

00:51:38 ◼   ► worked together on a couple projects [TS]

00:51:40 ◼   ► lately it's been a really interesting [TS]

00:51:42 ◼   ► experience because he is extremely [TS]

00:51:45 ◼   ► academic or at least that's the way I [TS]

00:51:47 ◼   ► think of him he really likes to do [TS]

00:51:48 ◼   ► things by the book and he really likes [TS]

00:51:50 ◼   ► to do things the rightist way possible [TS]

00:51:52 ◼   ► by comparison of course i like to do [TS]

00:51:55 ◼   ► that too but by comparison I feel like [TS]

00:51:57 ◼   ► I'm considerably more pragmatic or [TS]

00:51:59 ◼   ► perhaps loosey-goosey is maybe how he [TS]

00:52:02 ◼   ► would describe it i would say pragmatic [TS]

00:52:03 ◼   ► and I come down I think in the same way [TS]

00:52:08 ◼   ► that Marco does that [TS]

00:52:10 ◼   ► yes academically everything should be [TS]

00:52:12 ◼   ► final by default but realistically I [TS]

00:52:15 ◼   ► don't see how that's really possible and [TS]

00:52:17 ◼   ► what I think looking at it from my point [TS]

00:52:20 ◼   ► of view what's what's difficult about [TS]

00:52:21 ◼   ► this is Apple has a tendency to kind of [TS]

00:52:24 ◼   ► assume they know better than everyone [TS]

00:52:25 ◼   ► and so even if we had classes final by [TS]

00:52:32 ◼   ► default [TS]

00:52:34 ◼   ► I think it's pretty clear that Apple [TS]

00:52:35 ◼   ► wouldn't allow classes to be extended in [TS]

00:52:39 ◼   ► subclassed very often because they tend [TS]

00:52:41 ◼   ► to assume we know better than you you [TS]

00:52:43 ◼   ► shouldn't touch this and well in [TS]

00:52:46 ◼   ► principle that should be true that Apple [TS]

00:52:48 ◼   ► should know better than us in reality [TS]

00:52:50 ◼   ► there's so many just minor bugs and [TS]

00:52:53 ◼   ► issues and in things that that [TS]

00:52:54 ◼   ► developers need to do in order to get [TS]

00:52:57 ◼   ► around small problems that I don't think [TS]

00:52:59 ◼   ► that's reality and so in the end the [TS]

00:53:04 ◼   ► academic in me says yes it should be [TS]

00:53:06 ◼   ► final by default but I i come down with [TS]

00:53:09 ◼   ► Marco that this seems to be a little too [TS]

00:53:12 ◼   ► broad and a little too aggressive a [TS]

00:53:14 ◼   ► change to be to be right [TS]

00:53:16 ◼   ► is there an objective-c like at keyword [TS]

00:53:18 ◼   ► or something for doing the equivalent of [TS]

00:53:20 ◼   ► final are sealed [TS]

00:53:21 ◼   ► I don't think it's possible so my take [TS]

00:53:24 ◼   ► on this so far from looking at this [TS]

00:53:25 ◼   ► thread and thinking about it a lot is [TS]

00:53:27 ◼   ► that Swift seems to be like Casey point [TS]

00:53:30 ◼   ► out like that the whole thing with Swift [TS]

00:53:32 ◼   ► is it's trying to be trying to be less [TS]

00:53:37 ◼   ► open let's open to interpretation less [TS]

00:53:40 ◼   ► open to possibilities than objective c [TS]

00:53:43 ◼   ► in terms of world is variable [TS]

00:53:44 ◼   ► initialized when will be initialized can [TS]

00:53:46 ◼   ► I do what can I guarantee about these [TS]

00:53:48 ◼   ► things do I at one point do I have a [TS]

00:53:50 ◼   ► half initialize object floating around [TS]

00:53:52 ◼   ► somewhere in my thing like all you know [TS]

00:53:54 ◼   ► can I be sure that this method i'm [TS]

00:53:56 ◼   ► calling is going to exist in this thing [TS]

00:53:57 ◼   ► how sure can i be sure I want to be some [TS]

00:54:01 ◼   ► of that is for performance some of us [TS]

00:54:03 ◼   ► for safety suffice for both but that is [TS]

00:54:04 ◼   ► definitely the the direction Swift is [TS]

00:54:06 ◼   ► going it's trying to have its cake and [TS]

00:54:08 ◼   ► eat it too is like how we do things that [TS]

00:54:09 ◼   ► are safer and we do things that are [TS]

00:54:12 ◼   ► faster and we can do it with you know [TS]

00:54:15 ◼   ► with with less typing and less code must [TS]

00:54:17 ◼   ► cover be fewer bugs and so you know more [TS]

00:54:20 ◼   ► power more safety more speed [TS]

00:54:21 ◼   ► everything's good right but less [TS]

00:54:23 ◼   ► flexibility is kind of floating around [TS]

00:54:24 ◼   ► in there rattling around alright more [TS]

00:54:26 ◼   ► power more safety more speed is it as [TS]

00:54:28 ◼   ► flexible as it used to be well how do [TS]

00:54:30 ◼   ► you define flexibility and app kit and [TS]

00:54:33 ◼   ► the objective-c AP is have really really [TS]

00:54:35 ◼   ► have been built around the ideas of [TS]

00:54:37 ◼   ► subclassing so much so that it seems [TS]

00:54:40 ◼   ► like this is the expectation if not of [TS]

00:54:42 ◼   ► the framework offers then at least of [TS]

00:54:44 ◼   ► the application developers that [TS]

00:54:47 ◼   ► if you have some kind of problem uh [TS]

00:54:49 ◼   ► maybe you can solve with the subclass [TS]

00:54:51 ◼   ► right maybe maybe that class has [TS]

00:54:53 ◼   ► everything you need but you need to add [TS]

00:54:55 ◼   ► a little extra functionality so subclass [TS]

00:54:57 ◼   ► it and categories are like some class [TS]

00:54:59 ◼   ► too much trouble because it million [TS]

00:55:01 ◼   ► other places inside the framework that [TS]

00:55:02 ◼   ► use any string and throw category and a [TS]

00:55:04 ◼   ► string now all your strength of about [TS]

00:55:06 ◼   ► thirty method yay like a very sort of [TS]

00:55:10 ◼   ► open to like this is this is a giant [TS]

00:55:14 ◼   ► world's toys and you can screw with that [TS]

00:55:16 ◼   ► world wise and and swift rise to do [TS]

00:55:18 ◼   ► something else which has extensions [TS]

00:55:19 ◼   ► which are like categories like how you [TS]

00:55:21 ◼   ► want to throw a method on on every [TS]

00:55:22 ◼   ► string or number in your thing go ahead [TS]

00:55:24 ◼   ► you want to make a new operator that [TS]

00:55:26 ◼   ► works on all integers you can do that [TS]

00:55:28 ◼   ► like ya go nuts but it tries to do it in [TS]

00:55:30 ◼   ► a safer way so given that safety is such [TS]

00:55:33 ◼   ► a concern of the language huh [TS]

00:55:37 ◼   ► I think it's natural it fits the Swift [TS]

00:55:39 ◼   ► language to say final by default and [TS]

00:55:43 ◼   ► furthermore i think that the technique [TS]

00:55:45 ◼   ► of building user interface libraries [TS]

00:55:48 ◼   ► where everything is assumed to be [TS]

00:55:50 ◼   ► subclassed able by everybody leads to a [TS]

00:55:53 ◼   ► substantial amount of the sadness that [TS]

00:55:55 ◼   ► we good resuscitates the weird [TS]

00:55:57 ◼   ► subclassing and eventually in rare cases [TS]

00:55:58 ◼   ► this whistling to happen because not [TS]

00:56:01 ◼   ► because like the the application [TS]

00:56:03 ◼   ► developers are bad but because the [TS]