00:00:00 ◼ ► It's funny, we just talked last night to do to record our next member special and so I spent last night talking to you guys
00:00:11 ◼ ► Finish editing that conversation and now oh we're back talking again, and then I'll spend most of tomorrow morning editing this conversation
00:00:18 ◼ ► Good thing good thing. I really like you guys then you won't have to hear from us again until next week
00:00:30 ◼ ► Just a week ago actually a week ago today wasn't not it was Wednesday that we that we got that we got into Manhattan
00:00:37 ◼ ► And we're gonna talk about that at length on the after show and here's what we're gonna do
00:00:47 ◼ ► I murdered two of Marco's vehicles and that's your teaser for the after show. Don't skip. I know there's chapters
00:00:59 ◼ ► Let's start with some follow-up and we have some follow-up with regard to our prior member special about other people's code
00:01:15 ◼ ► And I don't think we mentioned on the show that that was very kind of you to take your time and say so so thank you
00:01:20 ◼ ► But we have a related piece of optional homework John. Can you tell us about this, please? Yeah, it's kind of timely
00:01:26 ◼ ► I mean the thing we're talking about is a members special that we did we're talked about me working on the
00:01:34 ◼ ► And it was partially framed as look at me playing with PHP, but also it was about other people's code
00:01:41 ◼ ► And there is a great talk about other people's code that I happen to see in YouTube by Laura Savino
00:01:47 ◼ ► And I posted about it a mastodon this week, and we'll put a link to it in the show notes
00:01:50 ◼ ► If you want to see a vastly expanded and much more professional and non PHP focused example of that
00:01:56 ◼ ► Lots of good information in there a lot of it resonated with me after my long career editing other people's code
00:02:08 ◼ ► 541 we were talking about solid-state cooling. I think it was in the context of follow-up
00:02:14 ◼ ► It doesn't really matter, but we were talking about solid-state cooling and there was a company that I don't remember if it's the name
00:02:19 ◼ ► It's the floor FR o re is name of the company and they make a product called air jet which is a physically very very very
00:02:29 ◼ ► but a thing that moves air and there was an article in the verge week or two ago where in the
00:02:41 ◼ ► MacBook air and I mean it was a pretty involved pretty kind of gross retrofit, but they put a series of these
00:02:48 ◼ ► These fans in there and wouldn't you know when you put active cooling in a computer it actually performs way better who'da thunk it
00:02:58 ◼ ► It was very invasive to the point where they had to mill out part of the case because obviously the MacBook air is not designed
00:03:06 ◼ ► They removed a lot of parts from the computer and milled out the case and put their little air jet things in there
00:03:18 ◼ ► There are these little tiny little tiny mechanical like micro level things that swish the air out of them and they go whooshing noise
00:03:32 ◼ ► iterations of the like thing was the m1 MacBook Air and just put like better passive cooling in not active cooling but just like a
00:03:42 ◼ ► But if you just put a better heat sink and better thermal paste you can also get some mileage out of it
00:03:51 ◼ ► Hey a marketing stunt for their product like look, you know Apple your computers could be better if you bought these things from us
00:04:00 ◼ ► Kind of hope that Apple doesn't put these things in the MacBook Air because I like having the low-end laptop not have a fan at all
00:04:10 ◼ ► As Casey point out like yeah, if you put active cooling in a machine that didn't have it it thermal throttles a lot less
00:04:16 ◼ ► But I feel like that's the that's the trade-off of this thing. It's totally silent. There's no fan whatsoever
00:04:30 ◼ ► You know the amount the the amount of trash that you've given me about my 14-inch apparently utterly crippled MacBook Pro is
00:04:59 ◼ ► It's parked in your driveway and you drive it frequently I think no, I don't try I mean I do drive it maybe
00:05:08 ◼ ► Once a week at most that's pretty quick for a car that you're saying is not yours. I don't know. It's it's very
00:05:14 ◼ ► I'd say it's once a month is a better description. But anyways, it doesn't matter. It's a pretty car to that later
00:05:26 ◼ ► I have priors if you will to use a Merlin ISM, but I think I really think it's pretty but that's well
00:05:33 ◼ ► And like, you know to be clear about like the thermal throttling what's interesting about this is that you even if you jump through
00:05:43 ◼ ► Pretty complicated cooling setup to a MacBook Air. Yes, it makes it faster because it doesn't throttle anymore
00:05:54 ◼ ► The same thing with you know, the difference between the fortune and 16 inch, you know, m3 max MacBook Pros
00:06:04 ◼ ► Like the olden days of like the original the very first generation MacBook Air that thermal throttled a lot severely all the time
00:06:14 ◼ ► Look iPads and iPhones do it too and no one ever says anything because it matters so little in most in most ways
00:06:27 ◼ ► I think they've always throttled just it took a while before you get there and even then what you see is is maybe you know
00:06:34 ◼ ► Five or ten percent slower on long sustained loads then then a you know something with a fan. It's not a huge difference
00:06:41 ◼ ► It isn't like, you know half as fast or a quarter as fast. It's it's a very small difference
00:06:48 ◼ ► How little anything like this would be necessary in a product like the MacBook Air that it really it is doing just fine
00:07:02 ◼ ► Would even say there isn't even a difference in the vast majority of workloads that you have to be doing some
00:07:08 ◼ ► Fairly specific things before you're gonna see these these chips throttle and even when they do the performance difference is not massive
00:07:15 ◼ ► So this is not like the thermal throttling we make a big deal of it on tech podcast because it is a difference and it
00:07:21 ◼ ► Is something worth knowing if you have one of those workloads, but in reality in almost all usage
00:07:27 ◼ ► It is totally not a thing and you shouldn't worry about it at all and it certainly doesn't need hardware modification to take care of
00:07:34 ◼ ► There's also the question of the power draw of these things I was looking the article that we're gonna link in the notes
00:07:39 ◼ ► I don't think they say the power draw but I thought I remember someone saying they were taking like five watts or something
00:07:43 ◼ ► Which is a lot like that's how much like the SOC takes but I don't know if that was accurate
00:07:48 ◼ ► I also don't know how how much power like the fans take in Apple's laptops that have fans
00:08:02 ◼ ► They have a long way to go because they have to show not only does it cool things by blowing air
00:08:07 ◼ ► But you know, can it be as quiet or as pleasantly quiet as the existing weird asymmetrical fan things?
00:08:17 ◼ ► Yeah, it's a long way to go even like how many can they even supply like can't like, you know
00:08:23 ◼ ► Like can they even make enough to be a component of the next MacBook Pro or MacBook Air? Probably not
00:08:31 ◼ ► It's the same way everybody makes enough of anything Apple gives them a lot of money and sometimes buys a lot of machines for them
00:08:42 ◼ ► replacements are free at the Apple Store as long as the mechanism below the key cap is functioning and parts are still available to order if
00:08:48 ◼ ► You have a vintage Mac go to a store that opened before your Mac became vintage and it hasn't been remodeled since then
00:08:54 ◼ ► That's a tall order, but I'll go with it and odds are they will still have at least some of the key caps left
00:08:58 ◼ ► This is a nice thing this later when we talk about one of the main topics this may come up
00:09:21 ◼ ► See if we have one spare snap it in and give it to you and we've all had experiences like that at the Apple Store
00:09:29 ◼ ► You know nicety like they'll do something for us that they don't have to do then maybe it's not official policy
00:09:34 ◼ ► But it's just nice like they'll swap something for you or give you a replacement because they happen to have one and this
00:09:41 ◼ ► Builds brand loyalty and if you know if the key cap repressant really is a policy Apple should talk about it more if it's not
00:09:52 ◼ ► You can get new key caps because I don't think a lot of people know this you see you see people with laptops with not
00:10:00 ◼ ► But just key caps that are weird or broken or have something wrong with them or some sort of cosmetic damage
00:10:05 ◼ ► Have you told them hey, you can just take that to the Apple Store and they'll just give you one like well
00:10:09 ◼ ► I bet they'll charge me for it. Well, it's no it's free. Oh, I mines not under warranty like
00:10:13 ◼ ► People don't know and it will make them happier if they have it done now that I know this if I have a key cap
00:10:19 ◼ ► I wish I could have done that for my Apple extended to that I dropped my pocket knife onto and it
00:10:30 ◼ ► Well, but if you can find one that hasn't been remodeled since 1975 or whatever, maybe they'll have one of those in the back
00:10:46 ◼ ► What do you said, you know you dropped it on the keyboard I assumed that there was going to be you know
00:10:55 ◼ ► Well, it was on it was like the shelving units were over like where my computer desk was and the pocket knife was on the shelf
00:11:07 ◼ ► So didn't have like the blade out or anything, but the flathead screwdriver, you know falling from a height
00:11:19 ◼ ► Apparently they'll price match this was broken or or discussed at least on macworld.com
00:11:25 ◼ ► In apparently up to two weeks from the date you received your device it will price match against and this is the key any
00:11:32 ◼ ► Authorized Apple reseller and the person who wrote this article who I don't have their name in front of me apparently did it over the phone
00:11:42 ◼ ► So yeah, that's a thing. I didn't know that either again if you would think that lots of stores advertising
00:11:48 ◼ ► They're advertised their price match to get you to shop there. You would think Apple would advertise this
00:11:54 ◼ ► but I think sometimes people do feel more comfortable buying from the Apple store than having to
00:12:00 ◼ ► Battle everyone and Best Buy to try to get someone to you know, uncage your Apple product for you or whatever
00:12:20 ◼ ► My latest side project was making kid art an app to solve that exact problem for myself and only myself as it sits unnoticed
00:12:26 ◼ ► You know, this is my kind of self-promotion its self-promotion wrapped in self-deprecation
00:12:34 ◼ ► Anyway, Abe continues it has some niceties like organizing about artists in age and it can use the vision framework to autocrop very cool
00:12:40 ◼ ► This is basically a Casey app. This is like it's a it's a bespoke app that deals with photos and children in a way
00:12:57 ◼ ► It can use the vision framework to autocrop, but most importantly it stores in your photos library
00:13:07 ◼ ► John tell me about Thunderbolt 5 and 80 versus 120 gigabits per second. Yeah, this is what happens something system
00:13:14 ◼ ► It's too long that Thunderbolt 5 thing had been the show notes for weeks and weeks maybe multiple months
00:13:46 ◼ ► Well, it's just four lanes of 40 and they just changed the direction of one of the lanes
00:14:01 ◼ ► They just send you know, three out of the four lanes in a single direction. That is the explanation
00:14:06 ◼ ► Excellent. No, that was easy with regard to ECC RAM at this point friend of the show Joe Lyon writes after reviewing the LPD
00:14:16 ◼ ► I am happy to see that when link ECC is enabled the overall bandwidth or throughput is not impacted
00:14:25 ◼ ► I/O pins but the ECC data transmitted is transmitted on his pin that is not normally used during the write and read accesses
00:14:32 ◼ ► There's a slight penalty in latencies when ECC is enabled because the extra time required to calculate the ECC data same as in the quote-unquote
00:14:38 ◼ ► Sideband system level ECC from the Xeon days, but at least you're not taking memory bandwidth hit when ECC is enabled
00:14:44 ◼ ► Also somewhat interesting is that link ECC can be enabled separately for write and read accesses
00:14:50 ◼ ► So a controller could choose to disable link ECC for writing data to DRAM but enable it for reading data from the DRAM and vice-versa
00:14:55 ◼ ► Again how the m3 chip actually chooses to use these features is unknown to the outside world unless Apple decides to tell us
00:15:05 ◼ ► We're so close to just getting at the truth because we now know in the abstract. Alright, so LPD dr5. It's got the array
00:15:11 ◼ ► Some something like array ECC inside it for correcting areas inside the chip and it could in theory use link
00:15:18 ◼ ► ECC for the very short journey from the RAM chips to the the the actual m3 or whatever processor
00:15:29 ◼ ► So someone from Apple should just tell us I use only KCC all the time some of the time on reads on writes every other
00:15:36 ◼ ► Inquiring minds want to know and there's apparently John and Joe Lyon. So the two of them would like to know
00:15:44 ◼ ► All right, Apple. He was last week established or excuse me announced expanded partnership with Amcor
00:15:54 ◼ ► This is an Apple press release and I will read from there Apple will be the first and largest customer of the new Amcor
00:16:03 ◼ ► Amcor will package Apple silicon produced at the nearby TSMC fab where Apple is also the largest customer
00:16:10 ◼ ► So basically when you have a gazillion dollars or hoe gillion dollars like you were saying earlier John then things can happen turns out
00:16:16 ◼ ► Yeah, this is vaguely related to our recent discussions of silicon packaging. They talk about advanced packaging this that the other thing
00:16:25 ◼ ► When they say advanced packaging they just mean yes stuff is Apple or stuff that Apple is already doing elsewhere and not any of the
00:16:32 ◼ ► Newer type of things that Apple isn't currently doing that we were discussing and when they say Apple silicon
00:16:37 ◼ ► Maybe they're making like h2 chips for the new headphones or something. Like this is years in the future
00:16:55 ◼ ► And if anything remotely close to cutting-edge silicon fabrication in this country is great
00:17:01 ◼ ► Intel is working on that Intel recently got some money from the US government to help with that
00:17:11 ◼ ► And trying to sort of build the expertise in our country is that part of one of the biggest problems is not that it's expensive
00:17:25 ◼ ► But you can solve that chicken and egg dilemma with lots of money if you build a giant factory and say we're hiring a bunch
00:17:30 ◼ ► Of people hopefully they'll motivate people to learn this trade and start working in those
00:17:35 ◼ ► Factories which are presumably offer some, you know good high paying jobs because this is cutting-edge stuff
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00:19:55 ◼ ► and apparently what they cannot do is generate or create a 5g a custom spoke 5g modem because allegedly
00:20:02 ◼ ► They are they're canning that process and they are no longer working toward making their own 5g modem
00:20:26 ◼ ► supply chain sources related to Apple's 5g modem departments claim that the company's attempts to develop its own modem have failed so far which I
00:20:33 ◼ ► Think we knew and that Apple's in the process of winding down its years-long investment in the project separately
00:20:38 ◼ ► The leaker known as tech Reeve today said that they heard similar reports from a Japanese supply chain source
00:20:43 ◼ ► This is pretty loosely sourced. Like I don't know how much to make of this and it sounds like Marco you are not buying it
00:20:51 ◼ ► There's there's a lot of words in here that matter. So keep in mind number one supply chain sources
00:21:04 ◼ ► there's a lot of value for them to build their modem as we've talked about whenever this rumor comes up like
00:21:07 ◼ ► you know, the the cellular modem and a phone is a is a pretty large and pretty complex and
00:21:17 ◼ ► Potentially give them a lot of control over how it's done and maybe they can do better than Qualcomm
00:21:22 ◼ ► Maybe not who knows but you know, they're they're certainly gonna try. I mean keep in mind, you know
00:21:26 ◼ ► There was a time when it was considered outrageous that Apple would ever make chips better than Intel for their CPUs
00:21:39 ◼ ► It also gives me the ability to possibly integrate it into the package of the main chip and that could have all sorts of benefits
00:21:46 ◼ ► For you know things like efficiency certainly space inside the devices and of course costs that you know
00:21:56 ◼ ► The whole Tim Cook doctrine of wanting to control the key technologies behind your products
00:22:07 ◼ ► You know apparently spending a lot of money and they've made some acquisitions in this area some pretty big ones
00:22:14 ◼ ► So when we hear rumor that says supply chain sources say that they're just gonna bail out on making a 5g modem
00:22:27 ◼ ► Apple's cell modem project is behind schedule and it missed whatever target they had said initially like they wanted it done by
00:22:35 ◼ ► You know time X apparently they they have missed that target and so they're gonna you know, keep working on it
00:22:46 ◼ ► We're gonna maybe need you to build a whole bunch of these for us or we're gonna we're gonna need all these parts to make
00:22:50 ◼ ► These or whatever, you know, whatever goes into it. We're gonna need these for say 2025 and if Apple missed their target
00:22:57 ◼ ► They don't need those for 2025 anymore. And so the supply chain sources might be told something like scrap that
00:23:03 ◼ ► That doesn't mean Apple's not making a modem. That just means Apple's not making that modem at that time
00:23:18 ◼ ► Who really want Apple not to be making a modem and who would possibly benefit from Apple not making a modem?
00:23:27 ◼ ► So, you know, there's when when people want the rumor to be true or they want they want to be sure like a lot of times
00:23:36 ◼ ► Through human nature or malice or you know, usually just human nature and so I would take this with a grain of salt
00:23:46 ◼ ► And I believe I think as Jason pointed out an upgrade this week if Apple actually actually can this whole project
00:23:53 ◼ ► They would probably be laying off like hundreds of people like it would be it would you would feel it in other ways
00:23:59 ◼ ► Not just somebody on Twitter or whatever like it you would you would feel it in big ways
00:24:12 ◼ ► And so the supply chain was probably told hey that thing we told you we wanted for next year. We don't need it anymore
00:24:19 ◼ ► Trailing indicator considering on past episodes we discussed the the actually fairly old story that Apple signed another
00:24:31 ◼ ► See, you know, there you have an expectation of and it's many it's not like just like oh, well, we'll use Qualcomm for next year
00:24:39 ◼ ► Yeah, but that's that's not many years like, you know, if it was a 15 year deal, I'd say oh boy
00:24:44 ◼ ► But if it's it's only a few years that probably just means they need a few more years to finish theirs
00:24:49 ◼ ► I know but I give the idea if this supply chain is saying this now because they sort of canceled their orders for whatever as
00:24:55 ◼ ► Soon as that deal was made they're like, well, I guess they're not I guess they're gonna be any Apple 5g modems next year
00:25:01 ◼ ► Because they just signed a three-year deal. Oh come on. Yeah, I mean it's possible that like the rumors have always been like
00:25:07 ◼ ► The the first year they have one of these say they eventually, you know succeed and make one
00:25:15 ◼ ► Even back when they did the Intel modems in like half the iPhones. That was not a great experience
00:25:22 ◼ ► They would put the first Apple modem chip and like the iPhone SE 4 or something like some lower volume
00:25:34 ◼ ► They're sure as hell not canceling the cell modem project because it is really important for them to do this
00:25:46 ◼ ► But as you know, I mentioned before like the H chip the r1 chip like they're good at making silicon
00:25:55 ◼ ► You've got the radio part of it which is not just you know digital logic, but as analog radio technology
00:26:02 ◼ ► But Apple has lots already lots of this the right talent and experience to get this done. And as you said Marco
00:26:08 ◼ ► Cellphones the important part of cell phones is the cell modem and hey if they put it in the SOC
00:26:22 ◼ ► Whenever you bring this up people say bring up the thing of like Oh Qualcomm chargers are percentage of purchase price
00:26:27 ◼ ► We went through this many years ago around in circles in this I believe the resolution of this was that
00:26:35 ◼ ► Not a reasonable reason for them to keep it out of the MacBooks because it's not a percentage of the price like oh I fit
00:26:40 ◼ ► By a $7,000 MacBook. I have to play Qualcomm $700 because they get 10% of the purchase price or something
00:26:48 ◼ ► But when it was true, I believe the upshot was that there's a limit and pretty much everything Apple sells would be at that limit
00:27:01 ◼ ► Like when they make these multi-year deals with Qualcomm, we don't know all the terms Apple buys a lot of modem chips
00:27:10 ◼ ► You don't have to pay make a deal with yourself and pay yourself weird profit margins or whatever
00:27:15 ◼ ► So it'll be cheaper and better for Apple to have its own chips. They are almost certainly continuing this process
00:27:21 ◼ ► But it is possible that they've said you know what we plan to make a 5g modem and at this point
00:27:48 ◼ ► But you know again product Titan has been rebooted a million times and that's something we're not even sure Apple should ever make
00:27:57 ◼ ► That's the thing and Mac rumors reports Apple's work on implementing 6g cellular cellular connectivity
00:28:02 ◼ ► This devices appears to be ramping up according to Mark Gurman 6g is not expected to emerge on consumer devices until around
00:28:27 ◼ ► but yeah, the 6g obviously isn't you know, it's dependent on whatever the you know for us the
00:28:42 ◼ ► Dare I ask what's going on with your window snapping window dragging bug? What's the lead?
00:28:59 ◼ ► the new Mac OS betas because I'm always looking to see if my window dragging bug has been fixed and
00:29:11 ◼ ► The feedback item one of my feedback items had a status update that seemed to indicate that the fix was in some build
00:29:17 ◼ ► I figure where the details were. It wasn't a reply. It wasn't a comment but up in the header part of the feedback
00:29:30 ◼ ► I haven't gotten that on it yet, but I did get that status update and I've been loading the you know
00:29:35 ◼ ► The 14.2 betas and testing them out and my reproduction on my specific computer setup with all of my hardware
00:29:42 ◼ ► Was very straightforward. You just log into users open 25 text edit windows drag stick. It's real easy to do. It's not subtle
00:29:57 ◼ ► 2.2 beta right because if you open 25 windows and drag a sticky, it's fine. Nothing wrong with it
00:30:15 ◼ ► Mean, I guess I'm kind of like, you know, what I would think is that computer is powerful
00:30:26 ◼ ► What am I asking you to do move an opaque rectangle around on top of a bunch of opaque rectangles?
00:30:34 ◼ ► Degradation as I open more windows. I'm not running out of RAM. The CPU isn't pegged. The GPU isn't pegged like nothing is stressed
00:30:42 ◼ ► Nothing is happening on the system. Nothing is running. They're just empty white opaque windows and they're just
00:30:50 ◼ ► Rectangles and I just want to be able to drag one around should it matter if there's a hundred?
00:31:01 ◼ ► 200 windows it's laggy when you're dragging that little sticky window around than it is when you have when you have 25, right?
00:31:09 ◼ ► You know and you can hold on the option key to stop the window snapping thing from going but like no way
00:31:14 ◼ ► Hold on. What's your baseline from like from previous versions of Mac OS before this bug was there?
00:31:23 ◼ ► It's like I just I never noticed anything having to do with window dragging ever since quartz extreme in like whatever that was
00:31:38 ◼ ► Winter dragon was fine, right and when we talk about compositing and in the original versions of Mac OS 10
00:31:46 ◼ ► They had to calculate the transparency of okay. We're laying a drop shadow over what's behind it now
00:31:53 ◼ ► You know gray is at that point with that transparency level and they would do that on the on the CPU
00:32:06 ◼ ► Right once they moved it onto the GPU which is designed to do that and they can do it much faster and in parallel
00:32:12 ◼ ► Window dragon was like oh the problem solved I can drag the window around it never lags behind
00:32:18 ◼ ► So I guess I window resizing which has to do with the contents on it, but just dragging that's done by the Windows Server
00:32:24 ◼ ► It's never been a problem only when I started encountering this bug which was obviously noticeable to anybody
00:32:30 ◼ ► Then I start even noticing window dragging and now that I know that apparently, you know, Mac OS 13 and 14
00:32:37 ◼ ► Have this thing where as you open more windows window dragging gets crappier. I'm always looking for
00:32:44 ◼ ► How many windows do I need to open for me to notice that it's crappy and what I mean by crappy is you'll grab the
00:32:54 ◼ ► Pointer will not stay on the title bar as you move the window around obviously when I had the bug if you look at my videos
00:33:04 ◼ ► And I can watch the stickies window move across the screen real slowly trying to catch up with my pointer and my pointer is moving
00:33:09 ◼ ► Real slow and it's like catch up with me sticky. You can catch me catch up with me, right?
00:33:15 ◼ ► Now on fourteen point two if I open two hundred windows and I move it around I can get the pointer
00:33:24 ◼ ► But there's a difference between when I have two hundred window and when I have one hundred when I have twenty five, right?
00:33:33 ◼ ► But anyway, I'm gonna close this bug as fixed once fourteen point two comes out assuming
00:33:59 ◼ ► What would it take because I feel like it like in a video game type thing if you had like a cursor and like, you know
00:34:04 ◼ ► Sometimes they make like fake operating systems for fake computers and video games, right?
00:34:18 ◼ ► That pointer would never move from the title bar but on the Mac because the cursor is controlled by something that's different than the window
00:34:24 ◼ ► Server the cursor updates and it moves however, if your mouse moves and the window service is like wait
00:34:29 ◼ ► Oh the cursor it looks like the cursor moved. I have to redraw the window underneath it and
00:34:33 ◼ ► To the degree that they lag behind each other. That's where you get separation. So I'll continue to watch this but I am excited to learn that
00:34:44 ◼ ► Loggy window dragging will be gone in 14.2 so I can concentrate all my energy on our network changed
00:34:54 ◼ ► I retweeted somebody who couldn't update an extension in Visual Studio why because Visual Studio was a video studio code
00:35:00 ◼ ► It just said yeah VS code Visual Studio code uses chromium under the covers and they tried to do something involving
00:35:11 ◼ ► I'm seeing it semi frequently now and it's one of those things. I forget the um, the term for it
00:35:29 ◼ ► Yeah, I'm seeing this way more frequently recently and I am not loving it. So thanks John. I appreciate I didn't make it happen
00:35:49 ◼ ► I thought so and I might have that wrong but I sure that most people are sending error message from discord slack may just be
00:35:56 ◼ ► But you know if like like Gmail I said before if the app you're using is good about retrying
00:36:05 ◼ ► They're failing and it just retries them and because it's all happening behind the scenes
00:36:08 ◼ ► You never notice it but especially if there's no place you can look at an error console or something. You don't know that it's happening
00:36:13 ◼ ► But honestly, that's preferable if vs code was better about retrying this person wouldn't have had that problem. But you know
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00:38:39 ◼ ► Why was it and how was it possible that I for me to destroy two of Marco's vehicles in the span of 30 minutes?
00:38:46 ◼ ► Well, maybe 90 minutes, whatever it was. Well, that's because Marco and I were both in Manhattan
00:38:57 ◼ ► I would like to at this time tell you everything I that Marco and I are allowed to tell you about the vision Pro lab
00:39:03 ◼ ► So buckle up wait, you just did I just shoot you're right. I just did. All right, that's all we got
00:39:11 ◼ ► I think you were telling me for that like you can't even characterize it. No. Yeah. Oh, I can't tell you that the lab
00:39:18 ◼ ► Well, can you just tell me if it was good or bad? Oh, that would be characterizing it and you're not to do that either
00:39:22 ◼ ► So a lab was attended. Yes. Yep. A lab was attended. So there we go. I would like to levy a brief complaint
00:39:40 ◼ ► Did the thing that that one would expect, you know a good friend of yours to do and what Marco did was he said?
00:39:46 ◼ ► All right, you know rather than having me update you or you requesting an update of my location every five minutes
00:40:03 ◼ ► Which I'm pretty sure I didn't when somebody shares their location with you. It says Marco is sharing his location
00:40:15 ◼ ► Because if he was sharing his location for I think the option is like the rest of the day or maybe it's like an hour
00:40:23 ◼ ► So what if Marco was sharing his location just for an hour which was enough time in theory for him to reach
00:40:31 ◼ ► Spoiler alert I did I did do it just for an hour thinking it would be enough time and it definitely was not enough time
00:40:45 ◼ ► Yes, and then I then I look like a dork cuz I'm cuz you were trying to do what you thought was necessary
00:41:00 ◼ ► What the other person has done if is this a is this like a privacy thing that I just can't put my arms around
00:41:10 ◼ ► Think about like all the possible ways. This could potentially be abused by creepy people
00:41:23 ◼ ► Even if they go a little bit too careful on some of these features that are like about location sharing
00:41:30 ◼ ► I would say that's fine. Be it be extra careful be overly, you know, overly cautious in this because you know
00:41:47 ◼ ► Why it might be bad to tell someone how long you have shared location for but I think it's best in this case
00:41:55 ◼ ► And so, you know and and maybe you want to avoid the situation like maybe you're being pressured to share location with somebody through
00:42:01 ◼ ► You know some kind of you know work obligation or some kind of societal norm or just some other kind of pressure
00:42:07 ◼ ► And you're like, alright final share location and then you're like, you know, but for one hour, you know
00:42:11 ◼ ► And then maybe you can you know get out of that situation in some other way in the meantime
00:42:14 ◼ ► And then you're not sharing location with them forever and they don't know that until you're long gone or whatever like
00:42:19 ◼ ► there's always you got to figure like how could this be abused and you know chances are
00:42:35 ◼ ► Experimented with to death and unfortunately, you know hacks to death by anybody on the outside who's trying to get around it
00:42:41 ◼ ► So, you know, they're being cautious here probably for very good reasons. Oh totally. I totally agree
00:42:46 ◼ ► I just wish it was clearer to me and maybe this is my own failing like what the the the
00:42:55 ◼ ► What specifically do they think they're preventing because I agree with you like be precious about it
00:43:00 ◼ ► And I don't mean that flippantly like be precious about it and don't leave an avenue for this to be abused
00:43:05 ◼ ► I just wish I understood it because this doesn't happen to me often but on the occasions it does happen
00:43:10 ◼ ► I always feel so guilty and that I don't know how to reciprocate appropriately like, you know
00:43:15 ◼ ► What if you shared your location forever and I'm like, yeah screw you one hour eat it, you know, like it's not a big deal
00:43:30 ◼ ► I'm about to send you my location for the next hour or I'm about to send you my location, you know forever
00:43:34 ◼ ► Whatever the case may be and it shouldn't I shouldn't have to do that. It should be clear what the situation
00:43:39 ◼ ► You're overthinking this but you just pointed out why they would want to keep it private because if it's if it's implemented the way
00:43:56 ◼ ► But the flip side of that is you are free to make your own decision without declaring it to the other person
00:44:01 ◼ ► Just like I said, it's like well if he's sharing it forever and you share one hour he might be insulted
00:44:16 ◼ ► How long did you share it for and the same way when you don't want to make it an isolation on your end?
00:44:28 ◼ ► Although you could have used a check-in feature if you could figure out how to do that, I suppose. Oh, that's true
00:44:32 ◼ ► I didn't think about that. I that would have been a really good time for I don't even know how to activate that
00:44:38 ◼ ► If memory serves what you got to do is I'm gonna try right now you go into messages you go to send a message you
00:44:48 ◼ ► There's it's the the icon is a yellow checkbox and it says check in and then I think there's like a prompter wizard or what?
00:44:54 ◼ ► Have you guys all know just like is that one way or two way? I don't know how that works
00:45:02 ◼ ► So they know or if you're if a kid is going somewhere you want to know whether they got there or whatever
00:45:05 ◼ ► But it is but I think that would have been a perfectly valid use and now I kind of regret that
00:45:22 ◼ ► Beeper mini which I had heard of beeper before and I think it's been under several names several different flavors of beeper beeper this beeper
00:45:33 ◼ ► It does we've heard this many times before and many times before we've seen what that means is there's some sort of like
00:45:38 ◼ ► V a VM that's running Mac OS that you're supposed to send your credentials to and then it sits in
00:45:44 ◼ ► Messages and it forwards all your stuff back and forth and so on and so forth and it's gross. It's gross
00:45:50 ◼ ► It's a huge threat to your security. It's just everything about it top to bottom is disgusting
00:45:56 ◼ ► Except that's not what this is doing. What this is doing is apparently it is legitimately
00:46:09 ◼ ► It will allow you to register for honest gosh first party iMessages and it will communicate with Apple's
00:46:17 ◼ ► You know a pns servers directly. There is a proof of concept written in Python by a high schooler
00:46:37 ◼ ► Linux laptop. This is not an Apple laptop running Linux. It's an honest to goodness like system system 76
00:46:49 ◼ ► Well, apparently youtubers do but a laptop with Linux on it. I don't know it's system 76 specifically dedicated to Linux laptop
00:46:55 ◼ ► I think that's correct. Maybe I'm wrong, but I believe that to be correct. I mean, otherwise nothing would work on it, right?
00:47:02 ◼ ► It's well done. Well done gentlemen, but anyways, I'm right in I know Linux has gotten better. Yeah
00:47:27 ◼ ► Engineering exercise. This is extremely cool. I don't know how I feel about it more broadly than that
00:47:34 ◼ ► But as an engineering exercise, I cannot believe anyone was able to do this much less a high schooler operating on his own
00:47:40 ◼ ► Incredibly cool. I believe it because I think Quinn had the exact right analogy in his video. It's like hackintoshes
00:47:46 ◼ ► It's almost exactly like that right because so here's the thing if Apple's running the iMessage service, right?
00:47:56 ◼ ► Isn't a real Apple device an iPhone a Mac whatever right? That's actually a pretty hard problem
00:48:05 ◼ ► Hackintoshes have the same problem. You saw you want to run Mac OS in this computer Mac OS is like wait a second
00:48:17 ◼ ► There's only so much you can do with the hardware to make it appear authentic and most of that stuff
00:48:24 ◼ ► It's kind of like DRM right the information about the authenticity of the hardware has to be sent to Apple
00:48:39 ◼ ► For the most part what Apple has done and the reason Hackintosh's exist is they do lots of stuff with like oh you need a legitimate
00:48:47 ◼ ► And that's that's a lot of how Hackintosh stuff works, and that's that's how this works right so high school student doing it
00:48:59 ◼ ► You just have to convince whatever Apple things that you are a legitimate piece of hardware that you're supposed to be installing on
00:49:05 ◼ ► And the push notification servers apparently can be convinced not with not too much difficulty, right?
00:49:24 ◼ ► There's one set of fake credentials that like makes it masquerade as a serial number of like a legitimate phone
00:49:35 ◼ ► Where you can essentially randomly generate like Mac serial numbers for Hackintosh's until you find one
00:49:40 ◼ ► That's a real one because Apple has services that you can you know look up your serial number with or whatever right?
00:49:49 ◼ ► There are possible solutions to get increasingly draconian involving again the secure enclave and cryptographically secure stuff
00:49:57 ◼ ► But like like all security stuff the other side of the security coin is convenience and the more difficult Apple
00:50:06 ◼ ► The more spillover there is impossible inconvenience for their legitimate customers and practically speaking
00:50:12 ◼ ► It seems like there's probably not going to be a ton of these customers. What's Apple's best tool to get rid of this?
00:50:23 ◼ ► But Apple has a lot of lawyers and lots of things you can technically do Apple may not want you to do and can stop
00:50:32 ◼ ► There are also technical things they can do but why do the cat and mouse game with technically?
00:50:43 ◼ ► They're harder than they used to be but there's not that many people making Hackintosh's Apple's not super duper concern those people problem
00:50:49 ◼ ► We're gonna buy a max anyway, so they do do things to thwart Hackintosh's year after year after year
00:50:54 ◼ ► But they're not dedicating billions of dollars to it right. It's not that important. We'll see what happens with this
00:51:06 ◼ ► There's some screen that none of us reads that says you agree that you only use official Apple devices to talk to you
00:51:11 ◼ ► Let's say our iMessage servers, you know what I mean? That's gotta be in there somewhere
00:51:14 ◼ ► So they're probably already in violation of some agreement where like because you know, they're they're using Apple servers
00:51:23 ◼ ► Because the beeper servers like when your phone is off the beeper servers are listening to Apple servers, but anyway bottom line is
00:51:28 ◼ ► They're using Apple servers. They're sending data to them. They're receiving data from them. That's not free, right?
00:51:38 ◼ ► There's something in some agreement that you have to agree to when you get an Apple ID for instance or do anything that says hey
00:51:44 ◼ ► You're only allowed to use Apple servers if you you know have a legitimate Apple device or whatever
00:51:48 ◼ ► So this is way better than the thing where you run a Mac mini at a data center and sign into it and give strangers
00:52:05 ◼ ► But considering beeper is charging two dollars a month for this service and they probably want to grow their business
00:52:18 ◼ ► Take over the world and continue to be a real thing that people rely on any year or two
00:52:25 ◼ ► Hack like this, you know, I'd say the same thing about hackintosh as I said, you know, it's a good example
00:52:39 ◼ ► I wouldn't make long-term plans about you know assumptions that it will work in the future and
00:52:53 ◼ ► That's that's great. And I kind of love the whole, you know hacker mindset that makes people want to do this kind of thing
00:53:04 ◼ ► Hackintosh might work just fine for you on your desk, you know indefinitely as long as you don't do
00:53:19 ◼ ► you know what john said was right like it would probably be a pain in the butt for Apple to
00:53:27 ◼ ► The reality is like when you're talking to a service that is that is out of your control
00:53:38 ◼ ► Unlike a hackintosh like, you know, you can control when your hackintosh turn, you know does its offer updates
00:53:49 ◼ ► But with this you don't control when your thing keeps running or breaking it is out of your hands
00:53:54 ◼ ► So I would strongly recommend if you want to experiment with this like cool have fun with it
00:54:10 ◼ ► And honestly the reward is you get to use iMessage which is probably not the best of all the cross-platform messaging services
00:54:19 ◼ ► I mean I guess if you're in high school and all your friends have iPhones and you feel left out
00:54:22 ◼ ► By all means install it on your Android phone and run it for it probably lasts through junior year or whatever. But
00:54:34 ◼ ► Appetite that everyone's like, oh finally I can get iMessage on my Android phone like people have Android phones who are
00:54:44 ◼ ► Which I have to imagine is most people with Android phones because a lot of people have Android phones are already using whatever the most
00:54:52 ◼ ► WhatsApp line we chat whatever all that stuff and you know and for my own kids I could see my own kids
00:55:08 ◼ ► They use iMessage for some things some people it's SMS through iMessage green bubbles blue bubbles. What's up?
00:55:16 ◼ ► That you can somehow choose a single messaging service and only use that unless you're one of those people who refuses to talk to anyone
00:55:26 ◼ ► Some people in your life some things that you have to do you have to use messaging app, whatever, you know someday
00:55:32 ◼ ► Maybe your kids will be in school and you'll have to go to a Facebook page. It happens to everybody
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00:57:00 ◼ ► You blocked for like the third time this year or something like that. I don't know what to make of this. Are you feeling okay?
00:57:10 ◼ ► Let's see four months out of the year. I blogged something this year. I'll end up doing four again, you know
00:57:18 ◼ ► It's average. I I promise at least one post a year on average across multiple years and I'm holding up that end of the bargain
00:57:33 ◼ ► This is something I had it in mind for a while and I you know, I've I kept thinking about writing this and it was just too
00:57:40 ◼ ► Nebulous, so I tried to focus it the blue ocean ocean thing is something we've talked about on this show before I
00:57:58 ◼ ► Business book or some business paper or something big thing in the business world that business people are now mad that everyone else is
00:58:07 ◼ ► But mine is the pop culture reading on it and the reason came up in the context of the Wii is that we was Nintendo's
00:58:14 ◼ ► But the whole thing about the Wii is that was the generation of console when all of the other console competitors were growing high
00:58:28 ◼ ► Everyone else is going high def every other console generation before it had been all about you know Nintendo's
00:58:34 ◼ ► 64 64 is bigger than 32 we have more bits. We've got blast processing. We've got 3d like everything is about
00:58:41 ◼ ► Graphics power and technology, that's how you sell game consoles, and then Nintendo says we're not even gonna do high definition
00:58:50 ◼ ► That that was their example of the blue ocean strategy because the red ocean is over there
00:58:55 ◼ ► Where all the sharks are just eating the fish and blood is filling the water are trying to kill each other to get all these
00:59:00 ◼ ► Fish right that's saying we got a we got to have better and better graphics better and better technology faster CPUs faster
00:59:10 ◼ ► That's the red ocean of game consoles that existed for pretty much the entire history of home game of console starting with the Atari
00:59:19 ◼ ► Competition over who can make the most powerful console that still is a reasonable price that people would buy right?
00:59:27 ◼ ► While all the sharks are over there filling the water with blood and eating everything in sight
00:59:31 ◼ ► We're gonna go way over here where there's nobody and believe me there was nobody over in the let's make a game console
00:59:37 ◼ ► That's standard definition with a weird remote control TV remote control that you wave around that was a blue ocean now
00:59:43 ◼ ► The blue ocean purists who say that's not what blue ocean is blue ocean is actually about making new markets
01:00:00 ◼ ► Microsoft and Sony were not interested in making a standard definition game console that cost a lot less money
01:00:09 ◼ ► There was nobody over there. It was a blue ocean no blood in the water and tendos all by itself
01:00:28 ◼ ► So that's the trick of the blue ocean strategies to go to a place where your competitors are not and also have it be a good
01:00:38 ◼ ► What is Apple's blue ocean because Apple has done a lot of blue ocean II kind of moves no
01:00:43 ◼ ► They haven't made entirely new markets of the arguably they've come close with things like the iPhone and hey, maybe the vision pro will say
01:00:49 ◼ ► But they've done a lot of things that their competitors were not interested in doing that ended up being successful
01:00:55 ◼ ► Like, you know, even something making a candy-colored computer with no floppy drive their competitors were not interested in doing that
01:01:02 ◼ ► They had plenty of opportunity to do it. There's no technical innovation in the iMac that anyone else couldn't have done. You can make a a
01:01:15 ◼ ► But that was example of Apple going where you know other people aren't and there's other things they've done like that
01:01:20 ◼ ► Examples to give the article is making a smartphone without a physical keyboard other people actually had done that
01:01:28 ◼ ► You know the iPod something that was probably technically possible for any company to do
01:01:34 ◼ ► Especially since Apple at that point was not very good at making tiny little consumer electronics like that
01:01:38 ◼ ► But Apple did do it. The competitors were much larger and bulkier and competed in two long different axes. Anyway,
01:01:45 ◼ ► The reason I've been thinking about this is one specific thing that I keep thinking that Apple could do that would be blue ocean e
01:02:00 ◼ ► Finite so this article, you know, we'll look back on this article at 2031 and we have our 6g modems in our max
01:02:11 ◼ ► There's a time limit based on the technology and I'll explain that in a second. So the thing I'm suggesting is that Apple
01:02:20 ◼ ► Whatever happening arguably one of Apple's blue ocean moves was getting rid of the replaceable batteries
01:02:28 ◼ ► Everybody had replaceable batteries in their cell phones, right and in their laptop computers and in both those cases Apple said, you know
01:02:35 ◼ ► We're not gonna do that. We're gonna sell you a laptop the batteries sealed in you can't even remove it
01:02:43 ◼ ► It's not a technological innovation where no one could figure out how to seal a battery inside a case
01:02:54 ◼ ► Same thing with cell phones used to be able to take the batteries out of them. Now you can't
01:03:01 ◼ ► What would be the point because the advantage of the sealed in battery where he talked about it when whatever the PowerBook 17 came
01:03:11 ◼ ► Mean advantages it makes your device is smaller more reliable. You can fit more battery inside them. They're lighter like just
01:03:18 ◼ ► Disadvantages have also always been obvious and pretty much everyone has aside. Yeah, but the advantages that way the disadvantages
01:03:28 ◼ ► It's harder for you to replace you have to bring it in to get service to get a new battery
01:03:32 ◼ ► You can't take extra batteries with you and just swap them in so we have all these battery packs
01:03:37 ◼ ► So we connect with USB or mag safe. All right, we've come up with all these solutions. No one thinks about this
01:03:53 ◼ ► selling its products based on a feature that no one else has because it's too hard to do well and
01:04:00 ◼ ► As Johnny Cerulli said when it gets really hard, that's where Apple excels because it's so hard that only Apple can do it
01:04:09 ◼ ► What would the advantages be a removable batteries? We know the ones I just described but the big advantage
01:04:20 ◼ ► lots of electronic stuff gets thrown out because the battery is no longer good and it's too annoying or
01:04:26 ◼ ► Expensive or both to replace you can replace a battery in an iPhone. You're gonna place a battery in a laptop
01:04:40 ◼ ► Take it in to get serviced and how much is it gonna cost and Apple doesn't let third parties do it because then you get
01:04:47 ◼ ► You have to pay Apple's prices and how much does it cost to replace it a battery in an iPad it costs how much?
01:05:00 ◼ ► You can make a device that lasts longer as in has a longer useful life if it's easy to swap out that battery and that
01:05:06 ◼ ► Is related to battery technology because the rechargeable batteries we have now they wear out in a not too long period of time
01:05:15 ◼ ► Devices that we say well this would still be good as like a kid iPad or a phone that I would give to my youngest
01:05:30 ◼ ► At the high end if we could sell you a iPhone that you said like my iPhone is fine. It's not slow
01:05:39 ◼ ► But three years into using it all day the battery is going and now I have to wear a battery case or bring a battery pack
01:05:46 ◼ ► Same thing with the Apple watch well that's a harder sell because it's not hard to get a remove battery to that
01:05:52 ◼ ► if you can make a device last longer that's better for the environment and people are more satisfied with their product and this is a
01:05:58 ◼ ► Business model like we talked about the key cap things that fits well with premium brands
01:06:04 ◼ ► You know Nordstrom taking the exchange of your snow tires buying something from an expensive luggage company or buying these stupid expensive chairs that we're all
01:06:20 ◼ ► We'll fix it for free for 12 years, which is unheard of that's why the chairs cost so much money, right?
01:06:24 ◼ ► But people are satisfied with that you're selling a premium product. There should be a premium experience. I just heard the
01:06:29 ◼ ► Very Scottish CEO of Volvo on the decoder podcast doing an interview essentially saying
01:06:39 ◼ ► Services that make the ownership experience of a Volvo better like hey will come and was like in Sweden or whatever
01:06:45 ◼ ► It's mandatory that you change the snow tires in the winter. So since everybody has to do it. Don't worry
01:07:04 ◼ ► And you don't have to worry about making an appointment to get them swapped and can you get it in and you know like or figuring
01:07:10 ◼ ► You know for what it's worth in the States it started during kovat and as far as I know it's still a thing
01:07:16 ◼ ► They do something called they were calling Volvo valet and they would come to your house pick up your car
01:07:22 ◼ ► Bring it to the service center service it bring the car back and have you sign something and you know
01:07:28 ◼ ► Do whatever payment you need to do and then they take off and that's that so you have not
01:07:33 ◼ ► Really interacted or you've never left your house. You've interacted with somebody once or twice
01:07:48 ◼ ► But we did do this once or maybe twice and it was amazing and it was to the best of my knowledge at the time
01:08:11 ◼ ► It's like all these these these benefits of replaceable batteries environmental benefits the satisfaction with your product of getting a longer life out of it
01:08:18 ◼ ► All those things go against one of the one of the goals of Apple, which is their financial
01:08:23 ◼ ► You know their financial goals, which is like if you don't buy a new iPhone, we don't make money
01:08:29 ◼ ► So doesn't Apple want you to keep buying iPhones? That's the balance that all these premium band brands have to make if Apple makes a product
01:08:46 ◼ ► Which Apple loves to do those services the Volvo provides whether they're free or not of all also wants to provide like insurance and everything
01:08:55 ◼ ► Like you said the service itself at the dealership is expensive the cars themselves have higher margins, right?
01:09:09 ◼ ► Like it's hard to do it's hard to do that. Well, there are lots of obvious problems with racial fires. What about waterproofing?
01:09:22 ◼ ► And you have to have a battery inside it to keep it going while the batteries removed from it
01:09:25 ◼ ► I don't know how ugly it is. Everything gets bigger. Everything gets heavier. Lindt gets caught inside there. You have creases like
01:09:34 ◼ ► That's why this is why the possibility for Apple to do if they can figure out how to do replaceable batteries
01:09:44 ◼ ► They will be the only one out there doing that and it will be harder for people to follow them
01:09:47 ◼ ► A lot of the innovations that Apple has done have been quickly followed by their competitors unlike Nintendo
01:09:52 ◼ ► It was had more durable benefits like no one was chasing them to do standard def consoles
01:09:59 ◼ ► And it's really hard to chase them. Let's just make it a game as good as Legend of Zelda. That's hard to copy, right?
01:10:09 ◼ ► So like this is this is my suggestion to Apple it's like I'm not it's not a prediction as I said in the article
01:10:15 ◼ ► it's not a prediction it's a suggestion and there's a time limit on it because if and when battery technology improves and
01:10:21 ◼ ► Batteries wearing out after three years is no longer a thing. You missed the window for this, right?
01:10:39 ◼ ► Carbon impact of all their products or whatever having products with longer useful life is valuable
01:10:45 ◼ ► It's valuable to Apple and it's valuable to customers and I feel like there has to way be a way for them to
01:10:54 ◼ ► Beneficial to both and then Apple can brag about it like crazy our computers last three years longer than average because we have these replaceable
01:11:02 ◼ ► But and you know, they can pick a product just do it on the phone. Just do it on the iPad
01:11:09 ◼ ► But figure it out find out a way to do it make it a big selling point how they kind of sort of already have
01:11:16 ◼ ► So maybe they're going in that direction because there is no battery in the thing. The one battery you have is easily replaceable
01:11:21 ◼ ► So you could just swap it for another one. Of course the whole thing turns off when you unplug it
01:11:28 ◼ ► and I know it flies in the face of what everyone thinks because especially in the Apple world like when Apple does something they get
01:11:33 ◼ ► Rid of the floppy drive they get rid of the optical drive like, you know, they make these moves and eventually
01:11:39 ◼ ► Apple fans say well, that's just the way it has to be we've we complained about in the beginning
01:11:44 ◼ ► But it was obviously the right thing to do and we're never going backwards. Why would we ever go back to that?
01:11:53 ◼ ► I think are different especially because the environment of the environmental handle because the benefits of them never went away and
01:11:59 ◼ ► Batteries still have the problem where they wear out and so many of our things are battery-powered and we use them so so much
01:12:09 ◼ ► Battery death as the end of the life of our products. I can think of pretty much every one of my iPhones
01:12:27 ◼ ► But I'm so sorry. Yeah, I know it's it's a hard life. But yeah, but but yeah, that's like I
01:12:36 ◼ ► That's why I feel like this is not just like some weird tech nerd thing replaceable batteries who cares
01:12:41 ◼ ► Everybody has experienced the pain of batteries going bad in a device. That's otherwise good. And I think most people alive today
01:12:48 ◼ ► Remember what replaceable batteries and things were like just because so many things still have replaceable batteries our phones don't but other things that I do
01:12:57 ◼ ► Wrestle batteries are good Apple could make a really good version of replaceable batteries
01:13:01 ◼ ► Give it a stupid branded name that we would make fun of but make it really really cool and I'm here for it
01:13:24 ◼ ► It would be that would that would you know make this easier and better and effectively give you know replaceable batteries
01:13:38 ◼ ► Sales of new devices that maybe wouldn't have been sales of new devices. No, I cover that
01:13:47 ◼ ► But it's the same thing with everybody who sells anything that lasts longer like our stupid chairs that we're sitting on
01:13:57 ◼ ► Right to make the math work out and the only way you can charge more is to deliver additional value
01:14:04 ◼ ► put something in the product that people are willing to pay more for and then you charge more for it and
01:14:15 ◼ ► But it's a thing that lots of products do including current Apple products. I would argue
01:14:19 ◼ ► I mean one argument against you know having having any kind of you know, replaceable battery thing
01:14:26 ◼ ► One of the biggest arguments that was given throughout, you know the history of this transition of going to permanent batteries is
01:14:33 ◼ ► We're able to make the product better this way in the sense that like it's better in ways people will care about and therefore buy
01:14:40 ◼ ► More so for instance one counter-argument would basically go something like well if we made this laptop have a replaceable battery
01:14:47 ◼ ► Then it would be a little bit bigger and a little bit thicker and therefore nobody would want that and I think that is
01:15:00 ◼ ► But the nobody would want it is difficult because they I mean they did just make the laptops bigger and thicker and nobody cared like
01:15:08 ◼ ► Your laptop that you have now is thicker than they were back when Johnny I've had designed the case
01:15:21 ◼ ► Ten years ago would still apply today or in the future, you know, because what happens is over time people's priorities change
01:15:40 ◼ ► More and more people are kind of having a backlash against you know, the most extreme consumerism and and you know rampant waste
01:15:48 ◼ ► Yeah, and especially people who are who don't have tech podcast who aren't tech enthusiasts
01:16:01 ◼ ► They just want their battery to be like it used to right. They're not interested in getting a new phone constantly, right?
01:16:09 ◼ ► Anyway, who what do I care but people very little people aren't like that there if you're not into tech
01:16:32 ◼ ► Now that's they have to they have to figure out like because obviously the value delivered by removal batteries is not equal across their product
01:16:44 ◼ ► Who'd want to even mess with that little tiny battery or whatever? Although I'll tell you what though
01:16:48 ◼ ► The watch is where where you need it pretty well that I know that's you know, that's the problem current battery technologies
01:16:59 ◼ ► That is probably the hardest problem and you'd lose them like the kids would swallow them
01:17:06 ◼ ► Was at the watch and air pods are probably where this is needed the most because they have the smallest
01:17:11 ◼ ► Batteries that I think I think last the shortest time before it becomes hard to use the product
01:17:17 ◼ ► when we talked about when the air pads first came out the idea of like having the stems be screw on and
01:17:25 ◼ ► But that's not how they've I think of the new air pods the battery isn't even in the stem anymore. So doesn't even matter
01:17:30 ◼ ► There are definitely like, you know some some like, you know legal or regulatory challenges here too
01:17:35 ◼ ► Like, you know, so so for the you know, the batteries if they are removable if they are consumer replaceable what you just said
01:17:43 ◼ ► Like there there are certain regulations air tags air tags are the example because they use standard button batteries
01:17:48 ◼ ► But they're they're they're not like the watch because the air tag batteries last a long time. I'm like the watch
01:17:53 ◼ ► I mean this the reason they did replaceable batteries on the air tags is like it's untenable to make a product that price was sealed
01:18:00 ◼ ► So, you know most of the mass of that product is the battery and it's a standard battery
01:18:17 ◼ ► I'm thinking something, you know for the more expensive products, but I don't know where deliver the most value obviously
01:18:22 ◼ ► People have their individual needs like I wish I had this on my phone or I wish it had on my laptop
01:18:29 ◼ ► I talked about this in the article like if you make the battery on the iPad replaceable the structural integrity of the product disappears
01:18:43 ◼ ► There are hard problems here for sure. But I you know, that's that's why I'm asking Alex
01:19:04 ◼ ► Not that you know connecting things with magnets was an amazing innovation, but they branded it works really well
01:19:08 ◼ ► People loved it so much them and they took it away. We complained until they brought it back
01:19:22 ◼ ► We're at whenever we're going back to the other way and Apple could be like, you know what?
01:19:27 ◼ ► Let's look, you know until unless we get solid-state batteries last for years and don't die after three years
01:19:35 ◼ ► Find a little section of blue ocean where nobody else is even trying this and see if it's a good idea
01:19:40 ◼ ► And you know if it's not a good idea like try it on a low-profile product and retreat and they did it with a touch bar
01:19:51 ◼ ► Knee-jerk reaction is no freaking way because I just I can't fathom a way to do this. That isn't trash and
01:19:59 ◼ ► Yes, I know that that's like the whole point right, you know, is that Apple waves its magic wand over this problem
01:20:09 ◼ ► Oh, I actually think the air tag approach is fine. Like it's not terribly appley. It's a very
01:20:24 ◼ ► You have to press in like twist and I will say I recently had to like restore an air tag to like it's unpaired status
01:20:42 ◼ ► So you basically booted up, you know doing five times in a row and then it plays a different sound effect
01:20:48 ◼ ► And then you compare it then it shows up. I don't know if I could accomplish that. It's so hard to twist that little thing
01:20:57 ◼ ► Like I don't think it's a premium feel but it doesn't actively like bother me or anything like that. I think it's fine
01:21:05 ◼ ► What I'm envisioning is the premium experience like not magnets, but imagine the battery equivalent of mag safe
01:21:14 ◼ ► They all have some standardized crappy battery that they have for like, you know, the wall power tool your Makita power
01:21:19 ◼ ► They all sell their own bespoke. You can only buy this type of battery because it fits into these
01:21:23 ◼ ► That's like the Fisher price kind of like big tough toy thing and imagine that but an Apple techie version
01:21:34 ◼ ► Struggling getting past the vision of how how does this what does this look like and something?
01:21:52 ◼ ► But anyway, the the ace in the hole that you have he ruined so many things like red hats
01:22:08 ◼ ► Apple really cares about the Earth's blue oceans see what I did there and I really think that the
01:22:20 ◼ ► Everything else I can think of I'm not sure I'm with you on this John, but the environmental side I get it
01:22:34 ◼ ► That is a competitive advantage and that is something that would bring people to the to their products and their platforms
01:22:41 ◼ ► But I just find that hard to believe and I get some Apple branded batteries and prevent third parties from selling
01:22:54 ◼ ► You know, if you look at Apple as a company like what what's important to them and you know
01:23:01 ◼ ► Number one seems to be you know, well it between money and making good products, you know
01:23:14 ◼ ► Stingy to make more money or giving away a little too much. They're stingy to make more money every time
01:23:23 ◼ ► And so it's hard for us to look at something like this and say how could they possibly ever?
01:23:35 ◼ ► Initiative is one of those areas that actually is powerful enough that might that it might actually push them
01:23:42 ◼ ► To sway in that direction sometimes and you know, they're not gonna sway in that direction all the time. Of course
01:23:49 ◼ ► that is one area that they also care very much about it's like up to the highest levels of the company and
01:23:56 ◼ ► Therefore like, you know, if you're gonna get through Tim Cook's spreadsheets to make it make less profit
01:24:02 ◼ ► What can do that health and environmental stuff like those can do that? Well, I bet environmental stuff though
01:24:08 ◼ ► I don't think you have to go through his spreadsheets because I think they believe that I think they're right that
01:24:13 ◼ ► Is good for the the spreadsheets in the long run and I would make the same argument about this
01:24:21 ◼ ► Even though in the short term you're gonna see like you're gonna take some losses and there's gonna be R&D and so on and so forth
01:24:27 ◼ ► The whole idea is that you're gonna be out there in the blue ocean in the same way that the Wii was the best-selling console
01:24:34 ◼ ► The idea is you're gonna make more money like that's the whole point of the blue ocean. There are no competitors
01:24:39 ◼ ► You're the only one out there. No one else thought this was even an idea worth entertaining
01:24:42 ◼ ► So, of course when you come out with a thing everyone's laughing at she was like what a dumb idea and then it sells a whole
01:24:57 ◼ ► You know to say well because you care about the environment so much you should do this, but it'll make you less money
01:25:03 ◼ ► It will also make you more money like that's I think that's part of the reason they do this environmental stuff like in the end
01:25:08 ◼ ► Apple converting itself to use all renewable energy and all of its data centers and all of its you know
01:25:14 ◼ ► headquarters and all of its factories like that's good for Apple financially in the long run because everyone's going to eventually do that and if
01:25:22 ◼ ► You're ahead and you've done it first you reap the benefits before everybody else setting aside all the PR angles
01:25:32 ◼ ► It's stupid donut that they made with it being like how much does it cost to heat and cool that the way they did it
01:25:41 ◼ ► That's gonna make its money back because the old dumb buildings that are heated and cooled dumb way
01:25:50 ◼ ► It's not you don't go to Tim Cook and say lose a little money to be good for the environment
01:25:57 ◼ ► I think that's how most of these things were not that you know, the all they care about is money
01:26:01 ◼ ► But it's like it's win-win if you do it the right way and the real kicker for the environmental stuff is
01:26:09 ◼ ► Recycling we're using renewable energy carbon offsets all that in the end as many people point out and as Apple itself knows
01:26:45 ◼ ► we have to re harvest the cobalt from those batteries and send it through a factory and reset like
01:26:49 ◼ ► Slow that down make the products last longer in the customers hands that makes Apple less money
01:27:09 ◼ ► Impact on the environment that it would just like if they have some environmental goals that they want to get to
01:27:20 ◼ ► Do the Jerry Maguire code Casey? Do you know this one? Jerry Maguire, please? I can't ask Marco. He doesn't know
01:27:32 ◼ ► But the part I remember of him it is remember he writes a a memo to the company and send it to the whole company
01:27:36 ◼ ► It's not a memory says the mission statement. Do you remember that? I don't know. Anyway, his his pitch he worked
01:27:45 ◼ ► He's a sports agent and you know, this company is like they get all that they sign all the big-name athletes and take a percentage
01:27:50 ◼ ► Of their money or whatever. It's sport agents, right? His memo. Here's the pitch in his memo
01:27:54 ◼ ► Fewer clients less money. I may be misquoting it but as you can imagine that picture does not go over well in HQ
01:28:11 ◼ ► Thank you to our sponsors this week trade coffee green chef and collide and thanks to our members who support us directly
01:29:30 ◼ ► And none of what we're talking about will have to do with the lab, but everything else we can talk about
01:29:52 ◼ ► So I didn't have to fly to California that I was dreading like when they announced the labs in I believe early fall
01:29:58 ◼ ► They announced with you know, the locations and or late summer. No, I think it was still in the summer. It was it was early
01:30:07 ◼ ► But the closest places to the East Coast were either California or I think London was like not that much further
01:30:29 ◼ ► I had this all this stuff going on in my life with the move and everything and I'm like the last thing I need
01:30:33 ◼ ► Is to have to fly to California this winter like it's for some few days span here and there to get you know an unknown
01:30:50 ◼ ► You know of that eventuality and by move by having options in New York that made everything
01:30:55 ◼ ► Dramatically easier for those of us on the East Coast. So thank you Apple for that. Yep, indeed
01:31:04 ◼ ► This was I think Thursday the 30th or something like that something somewhere around then and sure enough
01:31:18 ◼ ► Did you know like watch soccer on the way like no, I should have excuse me, sir. It's football. Thank you very much
01:31:27 ◼ ► But did you know the trains are actually freaking great who knew why didn't the Europeans say something about this?
01:31:32 ◼ ► We should have been no we should have been told we should have been told well, their trains are great
01:31:43 ◼ ► traveling up and then an entire day to traveling back and I got on the train here in Richmond and
01:32:02 ◼ ► Charitably from the moment I leave the house, but realistically from the moment. I opened my eyes in the morning
01:32:15 ◼ ► I got a ride from a friend because Aaron was dropping the kids off at the school at the time and
01:32:25 ◼ ► I went to the cafe car when I want to wanted to go to the cafe car and then eventually I got to New York
01:32:36 ◼ ► I know that you know a lot of the reason that we can't have good trains here is because we are not say compared to
01:32:55 ◼ ► What is the one obvious thing that you and I should do if we're in Manhattan around dinnertime?
01:32:58 ◼ ► Well, I mean, I think it's only it's only fair that I have to figure out I have to try this amazing
01:33:03 ◼ ► Life-changing wonderful pizza that you are constantly raving about is the best pizza in New York and it changed your life
01:33:23 ◼ ► Frozen on a member special shipped to us via Goldbelly and you can listen to the member special at e-mail
01:33:32 ◼ ► But but I will spoil it slightly and say I don't think it went super well for a Casey's
01:33:37 ◼ ► It honestly even even myself and my family who had had like Aaron's had Johnson Bleeker many times and
01:33:47 ◼ ► I and I the kids have had once they had had mail-order pizza that a friend had gifted me which is very kind
01:33:59 ◼ ► For the member special were okay, like they were still good in our opinion, but they were not stellar
01:34:06 ◼ ► And so what did we do? We went the two of us to John's a bleaker and I I genuinely don't know although I have a theory
01:34:14 ◼ ► I don't know if Marco just put on the happy face when he was there or if he legitimately legitimately thought it was good
01:34:24 ◼ ► I feel like you legitimately thought it was good, but one way or another we had Johnson Bleeker
01:34:29 ◼ ► There was a brief question as to whether we should get the larger of the two of the available sizes or the smaller
01:34:34 ◼ ► There was no question that well there really wasn't I thought there was a question and you immediately said get the larger one
01:35:10 ◼ ► It's always been I mean, I think they strictly speaking change the entrance a little bit or added an entrance if you will
01:35:15 ◼ ► Because we went in not the normal entrance that I'm used to from literally a decade ago
01:35:19 ◼ ► But but in spirit it is effectively the same restaurant. The pizza was the same. I remembered it
01:35:40 ◼ ► I interrogated him about it and he very much put on the happy face to the point that it seemed legitimate to me that you
01:35:46 ◼ ► Genuinely enjoyed it now that I am no longer within arm's reach so I can't punch you in the face
01:35:56 ◼ ► Come on, I think the environment like the the actual restaurant, you know, it's this classic old
01:36:14 ◼ ► So there's like there's a lot of personality in the actual restaurant call that ambiance
01:36:25 ◼ ► That's always fun when you find that when it's genuine when it isn't just like, you know
01:36:28 ◼ ► Some Chili's has there has you know created this across the across America artificially like it's not that
01:36:43 ◼ ► I like that it was crammed so full of tables that our neighboring table to us was actually just like
01:36:49 ◼ ► You know a foot away so we could totally hear everything they were saying they could totally hear everything
01:36:57 ◼ ► Like where it's you're kind of like forced to be communal with the people around you because it's just that crammed in
01:37:01 ◼ ► See also the Hofbrau house that we went to in Munich. I really enjoyed it for that reason. Yes, that's true actually
01:37:18 ◼ ► But first of all, it is different from what most New York style pizza tends to be these days
01:37:32 ◼ ► Usually you expect it to be flat flat pizza and then like a rounded crust. That's sure something York style. Yeah
01:37:39 ◼ ► It's more of a what they call like coal-fired type of pizza where it's got the leopard spotting on the bottom
01:37:52 ◼ ► And even their biggest pie was by most pizza places in New York. I would call it a medium or
01:37:59 ◼ ► Yeah, that's probably fair. And by the way, what do you call Frank Pepe's is also like this if you ever had their pizza
01:38:11 ◼ ► I realized that because we got we have a local instance of and I get pizza from there occasionally
01:38:15 ◼ ► I'm like, you know what this this reminds me of the not the taste doesn't taste like John's little bleaker
01:38:21 ◼ ► But anyway, it was better than the frozen version by by a decent margin like I would hope so. Yeah
01:38:28 ◼ ► But you know, it was it was not perfect. They did burn part of the crust. I noticed that mmm some people like that
01:38:39 ◼ ► This is a place that you go for the atmosphere and the history first and the food second
01:38:45 ◼ ► But that doesn't that isn't meant to be an insult. The food was good, but not super memorable
01:38:50 ◼ ► But the atmosphere and and that everything around the experience was very memorable. So that was really great. I
01:39:06 ◼ ► Like in some of the b-roll and friends it showed the East Village and it showed like the old John's a bleaker sign
01:39:45 ◼ ► Good thing that I feel like that's a change in my lifetime is that there is more non New York pizza in New York City
01:39:51 ◼ ► You know, I mean like different kinds of pizza more sort of like again the sort of you know
01:39:56 ◼ ► Coal-fired artisanal leopard spotted bottom that was that's not traditional New York pizza and there's way more of that now than there used to be
01:40:02 ◼ ► That's true. Yeah, I'll give you that too that that you know, if if what you're picturing is
01:40:10 ◼ ► It's it's close, but it's not the same thing and like, you know what you're picturing by New York pizza
01:40:20 ◼ ► The big puffy crust the pretty large slice with you know, like the very even cheese lately
01:40:26 ◼ ► That's what you're picturing. That's not what they serve there, but what they serve there is good
01:40:44 ◼ ► I'm glad that you don't associate Johnson bleaker with the admittedly subpar frozen meal experience that costs so much money
01:40:56 ◼ ► And but yeah, so after that, you know, we went back and had a drink at the hotel bar, which was weird but fun
01:41:01 ◼ ► And then yeah, we went to the lab which we cannot speak of and then Mark would had the idea a few days
01:41:13 ◼ ► And why don't we stay at the beach house and after the lab and so that's what we did and we
01:41:30 ◼ ► Then you had to do the arithmetic to figure out whether or not you wanted like an unlimited card or a single fare or what?
01:41:38 ◼ ► It was awesome because now like now all the the entire New York subway system now has like just regular phone Apple pay kind of
01:41:44 ◼ ► Support and that Express transit thing where you don't even have to like activate it first
01:41:47 ◼ ► It was so nice to have that because it took him a while to build it out to all the stations and
01:41:56 ◼ ► So then we went to Grand Central then we got on Long Island Railroad and then we arrived at the car
01:42:01 ◼ ► Which I know this isn't unique to an electric car, but it is pretty delightful and Aaron's car can do this
01:42:15 ◼ ► Like I cannot do that my car and John you can't either because they would roll away if you started them remotely because you leave them
01:42:40 ◼ ► Indeed. We went to Emilio's which is John's beloved pizza place from his youth one of two one of two beloved
01:42:47 ◼ ► Okay, fair enough. And so we went to Emilio's it looked to me as though this place had been freshened up
01:42:55 ◼ ► Sometime in the last 60 years, but it did not appear to me that it had been meaningfully changed in
01:43:01 ◼ ► It has been changed multiple times when I lived there and multiple times since I've gone. So yes
01:43:09 ◼ ► well, either way we went in and we got some slices which is the thing you cannot do at John's and
01:43:28 ◼ ► Steal those and take them home or at least have one in the morning and you had gotten them out for me if I'm not mistaken
01:43:34 ◼ ► And I'm very grumpy that I didn't have any more of them, but that's my fault. Not yours
01:43:45 ◼ ► Yeah, something like that's it. She's a big fan of the Crispino that you you found out the dangers of the Crispino bike buying it
01:43:53 ◼ ► It's basically like fresh sliced tomato fresh mozzarella dollop and some sweet red peppers on a crust
01:44:04 ◼ ► Quickly fell apart. Yeah, and then a couple of slices of you know, we're traditional, you know, triangular pizza
01:44:10 ◼ ► I don't even remember what specifically was but it was all like a margarita style but with like yes and basil in it
01:44:34 ◼ ► Trying a little too hard to keep away all of that moisture and it just it lost the fight
01:44:39 ◼ ► Especially if you're getting crispy if you're buying it by the slice that's been sitting there for a while
01:44:43 ◼ ► So you would you really want it? It needs to be fresh on a sense. It's very to get pulled off
01:44:54 ◼ ► But you're also fighting and I would have said speaking of the garlic knots if you can get one of those Sicilian slices
01:44:58 ◼ ► Don't even need it. Just bring it home wrap it in foil and reheat it in your toaster oven the next day
01:45:11 ◼ ► Oh, there's not a lot like that and I'd buy it. I would definitely buy that. This is one of those things
01:45:15 ◼ ► It was very very good. I would take John's but you're fighting 20 years of nostalgia. There's no way 30 years in nostalgia
01:45:20 ◼ ► There's no way gonna beat that but it was unquestionably extremely good. It was very fast people. They were very nice
01:45:26 ◼ ► I I would absolutely without a shadow of a go back if I find myself going to Fire Island again anytime soon
01:45:41 ◼ ► So the restaurant had a couple of interesting dishes that I remember vaguely fondly from my youth, but the restaurant is weird
01:45:47 ◼ ► Like okay, so yeah the other thing so there's Emilio's and there's branch and Ellie's and this is weird family history between them
01:45:54 ◼ ► But the bottom line is the pizza at least the Sicilian pizza is the same in both of them
01:46:00 ◼ ► And again, this there's a family relation or there's some kind of falling out about ownership
01:46:04 ◼ ► the restaurants branch and Ellie's is a sit-down restaurant and Emilio's has a stat restaurant and those restaurants are
01:46:09 ◼ ► Nothing like each other and the branch and eyes restaurant. I could mostly endorse for straight up the middle
01:46:16 ◼ ► You know bog standard old-style Italian restaurant and Emilio's has always wanted to be a little fancier as you can probably tell from the decor
01:46:23 ◼ ► They just felt like they've been a little bit fancier. They put some sun-dried tomatoes in your pasta in 1994. Ooh
01:46:28 ◼ ► You know, that's what Emilio's is there's still some good stuff in that menu I think but it's definitely different
01:46:36 ◼ ► So if you're gonna sit down if you want to go to a sit-down Italian place go to branch and Ellie's across my old high
01:46:43 ◼ ► No, Crispino at branch and Ellie's though. It probably fell apart on the way there. But no it was it was good
01:46:58 ◼ ► Speaking of something that would probably keep freeze that Sicilian and ship it to me go belly. Where are you? I
01:47:15 ◼ ► I think the day I got home, you know, John could have been having leftover Emilio's right now
01:47:19 ◼ ► He could have but he chose not to and that's on you John. That's on you. I'll be down there this summer
01:47:35 ◼ ► Sono Sarah 100s and eventually sono Sarah 300s and we don't have time to believe it right now
01:47:44 ◼ ► They sound so good and you are terrible human for having indulged me in that. So thank you. But no, thank you, sir
01:47:51 ◼ ► Nevertheless, they're really in phenomenal speakers. I'm really stunned by them and I and I know Sonos pretty well at this point
01:48:01 ◼ ► I was treated to a very beautiful sunrise which was lovely and you know, mark when I chatted we we had breakfast
01:48:07 ◼ ► I made myself some scrambled eggs and Marco insisted that I put some boom-boom sauce on it and I gotta tell you
01:48:14 ◼ ► You skipped out when you went to his house he drove you across the sand right wasn't that fun it was but it was dark
01:48:43 ◼ ► And there's like maybe one set of tracks from like the quad or whatever vehicle is used to collect trash
01:48:52 ◼ ► This is a winter beach and the winter beach is nothing but ruts as far as the eye can see and that
01:49:03 ◼ ► But I did not expect that and and it was funny watching Marco try to navigate it or since they try to navigate it that implies
01:49:12 ◼ ► But there's a small chance you get sucked into the ocean. So you probably don't want to do that
01:49:16 ◼ ► And in so it was fun and it was informative and interesting but because was so damn dark
01:49:22 ◼ ► There wasn't but so much I could really do other than bounce my way, you know across the sand
01:49:28 ◼ ► So we get up the next morning. We decide we're gonna do a biking tour of the of the town and
01:49:33 ◼ ► You know Marco has his bike and he said hey, you know, would you be cool with you some tips bike?
01:49:38 ◼ ► I was like, yeah, of course, you know, and it's approximately the correct height and I only need it for what 15 minutes
01:49:51 ◼ ► anyway at basically the extreme end of the tour at approximately the time in which we would turn around and
01:49:57 ◼ ► Marco had gotten slightly ahead of me because I'm I'm ridden a bike in years for more than three feet
01:50:02 ◼ ► So I was giving the the bike a little bit extra chutzpah in order to catch up and all of a sudden I realized well
01:50:07 ◼ ► That doesn't feel right this particular bike is belt driven. But you know, you could think of it as chain driven
01:50:12 ◼ ► It's the same basic principle and it appears that somehow I have popped the belt off of the rear sprocket
01:50:29 ◼ ► We pull over we quickly ascertain that yes, this is you know, presumably repairable, but nevertheless it is broken and
01:50:39 ◼ ► This is undesirable because I do need to at some point get to a train station and although I thought we had more than enough
01:50:47 ◼ ► We are at the after all the extreme end of the journey and that's going to take a lot more time than I think either
01:51:00 ◼ ► For me to you know, basically limp at home that works out just fine. We get to Marco's Beach House
01:51:08 ◼ ► It was a full-hearted attempt but over extremely short amount of time to repair the bike and we were not successful
01:51:17 ◼ ► The bike is as per our discussion before we got on the show still in a state of disrepair and it is still my fault
01:51:27 ◼ ► I said it was no big deal. This spike is it's you know, it's a very old belt driven priority coast bike
01:51:33 ◼ ► It's probably a 10-minute fix. Yeah, I don't yet have the time to give it those 10 minutes
01:51:44 ◼ ► Like I we couldn't put it back on like by fingers because I have to probably move the rear thing
01:51:49 ◼ ► To let the belt get back onto it, but that's fine. It like it'll take me like 10 minutes
01:52:00 ◼ ► I don't I don't talk about you know bikes much but I tell you what the the priority bikes and bikes with belts in general are
01:52:12 ◼ ► And there are there are some some instances where change are still better unless you have a reason you need a chain
01:52:27 ◼ ► So apologies again public apologies this time to TIFF for at least temporarily breaking her bicycle. That was certainly not my intention
01:52:45 ◼ ► He has been super chill from the moment it happened until this very moment super chill about the whole thing. Not his bike
01:52:59 ◼ ► For us going back all the way back from Manhattan to the beach only for me to return the following day
01:53:26 ◼ ► I think I would have lasted five feet if I was in the driver's seat before I said no actually I'm good
01:53:31 ◼ ► You did you take care of this because the clearances for a freaking Rivian are not great
01:53:38 ◼ ► Driving around your wee little beach town it it gave me all the shivers watching watching you very deftly
01:53:49 ◼ ► but nevertheless we get to the beach we switch drivers and next thing, you know, I am heading to the beach and
01:53:55 ◼ ► We I guess there's several different places that you can hop from like the kind of more inland area onto the beach and Marco
01:54:04 ◼ ► and we had aimed for one and we didn't we didn't look closely at the tides or the calendar or anything like that and
01:54:22 ◼ ► So I didn't really understand the issue was but Marcus is hold on. Hold on and I look out and I realized oh
01:54:28 ◼ ► There's not much beach there as it turns out because it was high tide and as much as I would have loved to you know
01:54:34 ◼ ► bombing up the water and down the beach and so on and so forth that did not seem like a good way to start my
01:54:41 ◼ ► You know, we reversed our way back. We went through the inland area a little bit further
01:54:50 ◼ ► The Rivian is laughing at everything as am I actually is laughing at everything it is that is being put in front of it
01:54:58 ◼ ► Everything is going swimmingly. I am behaving I have not at this point started trying to do drifts or anything like that
01:55:14 ◼ ► Challenging, but it is certainly more challenging than one would expect. You have a lot less control than you think you would. Yep
01:55:30 ◼ ► Thicker or perhaps heavier or just more resistive anyway like sand and snow like sandy if you will then snow typically is
01:55:43 ◼ ► Which you know, that's not a bad thing if you're following that somebody else's tracks from earlier
01:55:53 ◼ ► Strength if you will to get the car out of that rut and you could arguably I guess that's actually the closest
01:56:00 ◼ ► This car will be to truly self-driving is because you could have taken your hands off the wheel and not even thought about it
01:56:06 ◼ ► At that point but anyways, so we're like two-thirds of the way down the beach, which I don't know
01:56:10 ◼ ► How many miles would you say that is Marco like three or four or five? It's about three
01:56:16 ◼ ► I'm getting to the point that I'm trying to eyeball a place that's maybe a little less ruddy and a little
01:56:23 ◼ ► Flatter so I can start doing a little bit of fish tailing and burning out and so on and so forth
01:56:55 ◼ ► Oh, I just read this and then sure enough somewhere on the dash. It says, you know reduced power top speed
01:57:01 ◼ ► I think was 19 miles an hour. It probably deactivated some of the cylinders that yeah, that's what happens
01:57:23 ◼ ► 19 miles an hour is sufficient like that. I didn't really need to go. I wasn't really going more
01:57:27 ◼ ► Yeah, that's about as fast as I go most of the time right exactly. So so far no big deal. However
01:57:39 ◼ ► Requires a surprising amount of torque which means a surprising amount of depth if you will to the accelerator pedal
01:57:45 ◼ ► I don't know what's going on. Marco doesn't know what's going on. I said to him at the top well later
01:58:02 ◼ ► I would not have been chill like Marco was because Marco was extremely chill shatter that windshield in a second with your phone
01:58:20 ◼ ► I don't know if I would have been better or worse like it. I it was it would have been terrible
01:58:27 ◼ ► To just chill because I was probably enough stress for both of us. Did you just reboot in safe mode?
01:58:36 ◼ ► Would you slow down? This is my story John and you're ruining it because that's exactly what we did as soon as we got off the
01:58:41 ◼ ► Sand tech skills come in handy again, right? So we pull off into the area where I guess Marco
01:58:48 ◼ ► Reinflate their tires or what have you so we figure out how to reboot the thing we reboot the thing and at this point
01:58:59 ◼ ► That I have now broken not to mention the fucking bike that I just broke half an hour ago
01:59:10 ◼ ► This is something like I have had such a wonderful time with one of my best and oldest friends for the last 48 hours
01:59:31 ◼ ► We have to go on one of those things where you're supposed to be doing like 65 70 miles an hour
01:59:34 ◼ ► Yeah, that that was my biggest worry because like at this time like it was saying like, you know contact Rivian service
01:59:42 ◼ ► if my car can only ever go 20 miles an hour until I go get it serviced somehow like first of all
01:59:47 ◼ ► You have to get it serviced off the beach like the Rivian mobile service vans can't come on to the beach
02:00:05 ◼ ► You know probably very much angering everybody around me and possibly being a safety hazard
02:00:12 ◼ ► What I'm like, I really hope I don't have to bring this to a service center and it would be you know
02:00:19 ◼ ► But then second of all we had time this all out for you to make this train at a train station
02:00:28 ◼ ► But you know, how are we gonna get there now in some kind of reasonably safe way at 20 miles an hour
02:00:36 ◼ ► Right why you needed me here you're planning trips without enough, you know safety margin for you to get a flat tire or whatever
02:00:47 ◼ ► And so I was doing my best to try to do everything and yet, you know have enough time for almost nothing
02:00:52 ◼ ► I also should mention I skipped a step as we're as Marco and I are discussing how to proceed with you know
02:01:09 ◼ ► We're gonna need a tow and that ain't gonna happen anytime soon like you were saying a moment ago
02:01:14 ◼ ► You're not exactly going to find a tow truck that is going to want to or perhaps even be capable of getting onto the beach
02:01:25 ◼ ► Very much made sure that no matter what happened. I was always making forward progress. Yeah, that was really weird
02:01:32 ◼ ► I'm like, you know, whatever whatever error code the car is throwing or whatever subsystem is failing if you stop it might not let you start
02:01:39 ◼ ► So again, Mark was extremely chill and I'm so very thankful that you were because I was into some degree
02:01:54 ◼ ► things are still not right and I am really starting to want to crawl in a hole and die and
02:02:00 ◼ ► We had made it. I don't know a few hundred feet. I don't know maybe a quarter mile at most
02:02:12 ◼ ► About that same time that I was like, oh then you looked at me you looked down or looked at me or whatever and said
02:02:28 ◼ ► Outside of the fact that I murdered Tiff's bike and I almost murdered Marco's brand-new car
02:02:32 ◼ ► I had a very enjoyable trip and I'm really glad that I went but oh my word that morning was
02:02:45 ◼ ► I I don't know I so I actually called Rivian because when when we when I when I did the reboot and when it showed that
02:02:51 ◼ ► Message a brief message appeared on screen that says something like captured diagnostic. Yeah, I figured the car took a cyst diagnosed
02:03:02 ◼ ► Well, that probably means it's being uploaded somewhere maybe because it's a very connected car
02:03:17 ◼ ► So maybe I can like avoid some something like you know, maybe did the motors overheat did the suspension over?
02:03:27 ◼ ► That's related to Casey, you know, like blaming himself and say well Casey, but you just you're just driving the car, right?
02:03:35 ◼ ► It's an off-road vehicle and you were off road and you were driving it in a straight line
02:03:40 ◼ ► Yeah, and I think and and by the way and like in between like since he since this happened
02:03:55 ◼ ► I'm doing everything exactly the same that I always do it and it's been a hundred percent fine. So I don't know what happened
02:04:05 ◼ ► I called Rivian and and they they basically said they can't really look at it remotely like they don't have access and like I
02:04:16 ◼ ► But if it happens again, obviously then I will because other than other than that one little weird thing that happened when Casey was driving
02:04:27 ◼ ► Ridiculously good off-roader for this context like and like the the Land Rover Defender was a very very good off-road vehicle
02:04:44 ◼ ► That's saying a lot because the defender was really good. But the Rivian as a sand vehicle is
02:04:58 ◼ ► And that's why I like I want to I want to know what happened because if if something if whatever happened was like oh
02:05:06 ◼ ► It shows you the motor temperature on the off-road, you know extra gauge cluster thing so I can watch that
02:05:12 ◼ ► I actually I have been watching that like since since then I've been watching to see like
02:05:15 ◼ ► All right, if I drive it kind of harder in the sand, you know, this temperature goes up to like, you know
02:05:19 ◼ ► 190 degrees is that too much? I don't know. I still I haven't seen the error case happen again
02:05:38 ◼ ► Yeah, it I wish I knew I don't know if maybe like a chunk of sand lodged itself somewhere the other interesting piece
02:06:02 ◼ ► it could be like the air suspension or something like that like Markowitz said a minute ago or
02:06:06 ◼ ► Perhaps is there something with the brakes that got upset and it just didn't want to get this
02:06:17 ◼ ► But I mean I wasn't really getting on the brakes much because I didn't want to freakin stop
02:06:21 ◼ ► But generally on the sand you don't want to use a lot of braking. It makes you dig in and get stuck
02:06:33 ◼ ► You know it's if spike at least at the moment notwithstanding, but huh that was it was not my morning y'all not my morning
02:06:51 ◼ ► It was lovely to spend time with Marco which I haven't I mean we hadn't been together since 2019, which is criminal
02:06:57 ◼ ► I tell you but nevertheless it was great to see the beach house. It was great to get the the tour
02:07:10 ◼ ► Probably should have figured out a way to spend more time both with you and up north in general nevertheless
02:07:15 ◼ ► I'm really glad it worked out, and I'm really glad that we were able to make it happen for both of us and