00:00:00 ◼ ► Was it John that fixed my bullet issue. Yes I said Ste how. What magic did you use to do that. [TS]
00:00:09 ◼ ► when dealing with a rich text editing applications where you have a kind of a what you see is what you get output. [TS]
00:00:17 ◼ ► That even though this is not probably technically the case although used to be in some things you can conceptualize it [TS]
00:00:23 ◼ ► as there being individual. Individual invisible formatting. Characters. Zero with invisible formatting characters. [TS]
00:00:30 ◼ ► Attached to text that you can't delete. And that when things touch them they infect the thing that they touch. [TS]
00:00:39 ◼ ► All formatting and Rich Text editors like Word or any of these types of things. Involves manipulating. [TS]
00:00:55 ◼ ► but actually had invisible formatting characters and you can make them visible. Those are the days. [TS]
00:01:06 ◼ ► but there's one process actually were done that way these days on behind the scenes I have no idea how it works I'm [TS]
00:01:12 ◼ ► sure it's much more complicated than simple invisible forming characters but anyway. [TS]
00:01:15 ◼ ► Yeah you just have to learn how to bump the invisible bump the conceptual invisible formatting characters up against [TS]
00:01:24 ◼ ► and move it down it just well that was the problem as I was trying to invent just the Reddit related follow up and. [TS]
00:01:39 ◼ ► I know I saw that you know and you just gotta like it's going to find a part the looks the way you want [TS]
00:01:50 ◼ ► So this is like an outbreak I need to find the monkey and then that will solve all my problems. [TS]
00:01:56 ◼ ► Sometimes in a word I could not figure out how to manipulate the invisible forces that control the formatting in that [TS]
00:02:06 ◼ ► Because like even if you delete all the content and you try to like paste it back in [TS]
00:02:13 ◼ ► Like a homie out that they were likely the document still has the what is it the the essence. [TS]
00:02:28 ◼ ► You delete all the text when you put a text back the document remembers is actually used to be there. [TS]
00:02:34 ◼ ► Do you want timestamps to make your. Your chapter markers easier. Know the time stamps. [TS]
00:02:40 ◼ ► Move when I add it so it doesn't matter. Adding the chapter Marcus's only taking like five minutes. [TS]
00:02:48 ◼ ► I think if we've received let's say twenty pieces of feedback with regard to the chapter markers. [TS]
00:02:58 ◼ ► I bet the other two that were in from Germany were people who were actually German just were living somewhere else [TS]
00:03:08 ◼ ► I don't know what it is with the Germans in their chapter markers but got to the everloving they really do. [TS]
00:03:12 ◼ ► It's funny because no one else really seems to care or even notice. No but. But the Germans. [TS]
00:03:17 ◼ ► Love them all they're all using they're all using a popular podcast plan that doesn't support chapter markers. [TS]
00:03:25 ◼ ► As I wonder what. So what clients do you support chapter markers you would know. I think I'm the only one who doesn't. [TS]
00:03:30 ◼ ► Actually I don't know really. I know the Apple one does to a limited degree. I mean it's easy because. [TS]
00:03:37 ◼ ► There's actually an A.P.I. In A.V. Player to just fetch chapters and it supports. Almost every format. The thout there. [TS]
00:03:59 ◼ ► So it would just destroy the memory and corrupt everything and eventually the app would crash [TS]
00:04:17 ◼ ► You know the time leading up to then building chapter support. So when you return to Munich. To do. European delivery. [TS]
00:04:32 ◼ ► I think so because if there's anything the Germans love in the entire world other than order. It is chapters. [TS]
00:04:41 ◼ ► Actually I do too as much as I'm poking fun I really do is how I feel like these are like my people think they're there [TS]
00:04:55 ◼ ► And as a tall just as in the chat chapters are a form of order. That's a fair point. [TS]
00:05:24 ◼ ► I know there's a web service called off on it that does a lot of Pi cats post-processing stuff and they offer it. [TS]
00:05:29 ◼ ► But that's like a paid monthly kind of service and. And I know Jason is now uses that for clockwise. [TS]
00:05:35 ◼ ► But beyond that like there used to be an Apple two I think a garage band or something that they discontinued years ago. [TS]
00:05:42 ◼ ► So I don't know what. I don't know. Like I think there's two problems here there's that there's a tools problem and a. [TS]
00:05:48 ◼ ► And a client problem and that combines to form. At least part of the demand problem. So I don't know. We'll see. [TS]
00:06:06 ◼ ► John want to tell us about what the Such an adult has said about your hatred of Apple. That's now bodies. [TS]
00:06:15 ◼ ► Injury or from while ago where a sudden Adele is talking to Mary Jo Foley is eating out and a long interview [TS]
00:06:21 ◼ ► and one I think we pulled a snippet from that interview before which is why I had read it. [TS]
00:06:25 ◼ ► But I pulled out this other sniff at the thought was interesting. This is such an delicate he says. [TS]
00:06:34 ◼ ► So let us first get the colorful IMAX I think with what we're doing with Lumia where at that stage. [TS]
00:06:39 ◼ ► I want to do good devices that people like and then we will go on to doing the next thing [TS]
00:06:42 ◼ ► and the next thing I thought this is really interesting to see the C.E.O. Of Microsoft. [TS]
00:06:47 ◼ ► Basically like intentionally pull themselves poll Microsoft down to Apple's level to say we are way microscope were [TS]
00:07:04 ◼ ► That works where the stage where we're going to make some calls a lie masks we're not the stage where I can the i Pod. [TS]
00:07:10 ◼ ► We're now the stage for making the i Phone of the i Pad where the stage where we are making the colorful IMAX which I [TS]
00:07:15 ◼ ► think is sandbagging in the highest degree because Microsoft is nowhere near the low point that Apple was [TS]
00:07:23 ◼ ► when they were introducing the IMAX nowhere near that low like financially like that the quality [TS]
00:07:30 ◼ ► and number of products they haven't that they sell. And just like in every other respect but this is. [TS]
00:07:40 ◼ ► We want you to lower your expectations of us like guess like think of us like we're out to was like you know give us a [TS]
00:07:49 ◼ ► but we just want make something cool the kind of catch the imagination is kind of popular [TS]
00:07:52 ◼ ► and that's what we think we're doing with these new them your funds I know they're not the next i Phone But you know. [TS]
00:08:01 ◼ ► Something that I think also that someone from the old Microsoft like Gates or bomber. [TS]
00:08:06 ◼ ► Could not pull off just because since they were the people in charge when Microsoft was king of the world. [TS]
00:08:11 ◼ ► It would sound weird for them to say. Microsoft is basically were Apple is in one thousand nine hundred eighty eight. [TS]
00:08:29 ◼ ► Her how they're trying to position their company to the outside world. That's an odd analogy but. [TS]
00:08:35 ◼ ► I mean it's sort of makes sense. Why did you tell us about the trim saga that will never end. [TS]
00:08:41 ◼ ► And I think we're talking about the same song popular something that has these and their. [TS]
00:08:49 ◼ ► That's not our problem because you're using in Linux and Windows isn't a supported platform and people got angry [TS]
00:08:54 ◼ ► and then we didn't know there were problems with this properly assess these are not. [TS]
00:08:58 ◼ ► The latest development and that saga is that Samsung says it's not a problem with our firmware [TS]
00:09:07 ◼ ► I don't know what the actual problem is maybe their patch to the kernel works around. A problem. [TS]
00:09:14 ◼ ► There's another link that's eternally being put off in the show notes for some Macin an article is trying to test these [TS]
00:09:28 ◼ ► but I would say this whole thing is still a question mark to me because just because Samsung says the bug into Linux [TS]
00:09:41 ◼ ► And is any of this relevant at all to people running Austin. I don't know. So still. [TS]
00:09:46 ◼ ► I'm just hanging back and not bothering with the term stuff and get my fingers crossed. Spoke strategy. [TS]
00:09:52 ◼ ► Pays off for him. That's a reference by the way. Marco to tell us about a year or so your option dilemma. [TS]
00:09:59 ◼ ► Yes so in last week's episode. I talked about how I was having an issue with deciding overcast. [TS]
00:10:07 ◼ ► Cellular download preferences. Because I'm adding streaming for the next big version and. [TS]
00:10:13 ◼ ► There is a question of should streaming have its own preference and I already had these two other preferences and. [TS]
00:10:18 ◼ ► How do I combine these these possibly three preferences in any way that makes sense and is [TS]
00:10:23 ◼ ► and is understandable by users and doesn't have too much clutter in the options and complex and everything. [TS]
00:10:31 ◼ ► So right now I have in the current version there's there's two options one of them is download oversight of it which [TS]
00:10:40 ◼ ► And the reason why I couldn't just rely on the system toggle for that was because of what I considered a bug in the [TS]
00:10:55 ◼ ► The system would still tell the app that it was connected to the Internet via cellular. [TS]
00:11:01 ◼ ► No way to tell that it wasn't that it wasn't allowed to use this connection. So if it tried to use the connection. [TS]
00:11:13 ◼ ► and my feeling was it should be the way it used to be which is that if somebody disabled sell access for you [TS]
00:11:17 ◼ ► and i OS seven. It would. The system would report to your app that it was just offline. [TS]
00:11:23 ◼ ► When it was on cellular so you could just avoid doing things and not sure that stupid alert to people. Turns out in. [TS]
00:11:37 ◼ ► And I us nine if US as the app use the reachability framework to test the connection. If the users on cellular. [TS]
00:11:53 ◼ ► This lets me remove that second setting I have now which is the. It's called sync over cellular. [TS]
00:12:00 ◼ ► Lets me remove that setting completely. Which is great. So now I only will have the download over Siler option. In the. [TS]
00:12:11 ◼ ► I don't need a streaming option at all because streaming just rely on the system setting if you don't want overcast use [TS]
00:12:16 ◼ ► the slow data just disable in system settings. And it's so I've gone from two settings in the current version. [TS]
00:12:23 ◼ ► To potentially needing three in the next version. But instead going down to one. Which is fantastic. [TS]
00:12:29 ◼ ► Why don't you need the settings anymore if you're saying the next version is not going to run I was eight. [TS]
00:12:34 ◼ ► I'm saying I will no longer care about a minor annoyance details that will affect very very few people. It's not worth. [TS]
00:12:40 ◼ ► Keep it like so for instance. The current version of the app also has a setting in the ticket details. [TS]
00:12:46 ◼ ► Called a streak celebration. This is that I've actually had since. Since one point zero. When you seek an overcast. [TS]
00:12:56 ◼ ► or whatever if you hit that a bunch of times in a row like it so that you're doing like you know more than one per [TS]
00:13:03 ◼ ► second. Basically effort it was awful and threshold is. But if you do more than one of those per second after a few. [TS]
00:13:11 ◼ ► So it lets you if you if you're in a situation where you only have access to seek back and forward features. [TS]
00:13:19 ◼ ► Or if you have headphones with those buttons on him or remote with the with those buttons on it. [TS]
00:13:23 ◼ ► If you want to seek a long distance. In a track. It lets you get there a lot faster. [TS]
00:13:32 ◼ ► Thirty thirty thirty forty five fifty sixty ninety like it will accelerate up up up to a certain ceiling. [TS]
00:13:39 ◼ ► And I've always had an option to disable that. Since one point zero. And all and that option sinks to the server. [TS]
00:13:45 ◼ ► So that sinks to your account. So I can actually tell him new people use it. And I've been watching and. [TS]
00:13:52 ◼ ► I brought up on Twitter few months back hey can I just remove this option. And I learned that most. [TS]
00:13:58 ◼ ► Most of the respondents didn't really understand what it did. Whether they said yes remove it or. No keep it. [TS]
00:14:07 ◼ ► And so I decided that wasn't an option anymore and I looked at I was at the server [TS]
00:14:12 ◼ ► and usage of it was under one percent. People who change the default. Which is on. [TS]
00:14:22 ◼ ► That's used by fewer than one percent of the users that's that's not worth the complexity. [TS]
00:14:31 ◼ ► People who are going to disable cellular in the System Preferences completely for the app. [TS]
00:14:37 ◼ ► I can't measure that right now. I'm guessing it's probably not below one percent but I bet it's pretty low. [TS]
00:14:44 ◼ ► And also who are going to be running I was eight for longer than the next couple of months. Not worth it. [TS]
00:14:49 ◼ ► It's not working in a setting around just just to have them to have them be able to avoid seeing the cell data disable [TS]
00:14:57 ◼ ► dialog box. As often as they could. You know it's. It's such a small gain for so few people. [TS]
00:15:05 ◼ ► For such a short time that it's just not worth it. Also I'm not taking the move to I O. S. [TS]
00:15:16 ◼ ► or at least soon afterwards depending on you know what compelling reasons I have because the factors I was nine runs on [TS]
00:15:24 ◼ ► every device I was eight runs on. Jail recurs haven't ever going to yet I don't think but I don't care. [TS]
00:15:33 ◼ ► I don't need to fall that I think if you jailbreak. That's up to you to follow and. [TS]
00:15:37 ◼ ► I can't waste my time on that because jailbreaking is just a nightmare of support complexity and it's. [TS]
00:15:42 ◼ ► And it's just not worth it. So regardless I don't care about jailbreak ability. And so. [TS]
00:15:50 ◼ ► And people who like hold on to old versions forever because they just don't like the new version I don't really cater [TS]
00:15:54 ◼ ► to them either. I feel like if your device can run. I.O.'s whatever. I don't feel bad. Requiring I us whatever. [TS]
00:16:02 ◼ ► Even if you choose not to install us whatever if you choose to keep the old version around at the I consider that like [TS]
00:16:11 ◼ ► You know future updates to absent require all the stuff. So anyway. That's how I feel but that was a question. [TS]
00:16:19 ◼ ► I was basically asking you if you're going to make a overcast I was nine only and you mentioned worked up to. Yeah. [TS]
00:16:29 ◼ ► Because I would like to release it before I was nine is released. I don't know if I will. [TS]
00:16:37 ◼ ► I would like to really sort of soon as I can just to be clear the last time you said you want to release soon you ended [TS]
00:16:42 ◼ ► up a year later heard something like that. OK I just wanna make sure all the same page here. No actually what. [TS]
00:16:50 ◼ ► What is motivating me to want to release the soon. Is actually the playlist reordering bug. [TS]
00:16:55 ◼ ► Because it's going to be it's too complicated to back port the fix to that is the one point zero branch and. [TS]
00:17:01 ◼ ► So I would like to Atlanta I'm actually planning on now. Cutting a few features from two point I was initially launch. [TS]
00:17:07 ◼ ► Just so I can get it out faster. And then adding back those features later. In like two point one or never. [TS]
00:17:18 ◼ ► and the people behind need recently launched foremost a purveyor of small batch American made clothing for men [TS]
00:17:28 ◼ ► He's a really really super nice guy he was in case you guys don't know not only was he on. Is he on the. [TS]
00:17:34 ◼ ► The Bonanza pod cast. But he's also he was the British voice in our A.T.P. Shirt. Parity promo. [TS]
00:17:40 ◼ ► So want to thank him first of all for coming in last minute with us because we had some a dropout and he was awesome [TS]
00:17:45 ◼ ► and picked it up so. Thank you Madeleine Genner anyway. Need is as I said. A curated retailer and publication. [TS]
00:17:55 ◼ ► They also sell literature furniture coffee and more for discerning shoppers. So each month. They cure rate and sell. [TS]
00:18:06 ◼ ► So rather than offering an overwhelming selection of everything under the sun all of once. [TS]
00:18:15 ◼ ► Whilst he's British So he says while so I will say while whilst also offering an ongoing array of essential. They have. [TS]
00:18:26 ◼ ► Sony just launches latest collection Volume two point eight. Featuring items as diverse as responsibly made furniture. [TS]
00:18:34 ◼ ► There's no subscriptions there's no services there's no boxes or stylists or other gimmicks. Instead. [TS]
00:18:40 ◼ ► Need simply send you an email or two each month. You come along to see what's new you buy some things if you want them. [TS]
00:18:45 ◼ ► And then you move on with your life. Very simple. No gimmicks no subscriptions. Nothing like that now. For A.T.P. [TS]
00:18:52 ◼ ► Listeners. Need is offering. Twenty five percent off anything on the site with the code. Prefer all up. [TS]
00:18:59 ◼ ► And this is now this is twenty five percent of this is actually not only those more than the normal discount this is [TS]
00:19:03 ◼ ► the biggest discount they've ever offered I asked I verified that with them because this kind of ever over twenty five [TS]
00:19:08 ◼ ► percent off anything you buy with code pretty follow up. Now for most. Is there a new site for most is. [TS]
00:19:15 ◼ ► It's a small batch American made clothing line for many women so this is high quality American made stuff. [TS]
00:19:20 ◼ ► Men and women. And as an added bonus the code pre follow up will also apply to anything you buy from foremost. [TS]
00:19:30 ◼ ► Their latest round to receive enormous Preez for its quality and affordability and even Tech Crunch. [TS]
00:19:36 ◼ ► Tech Crunch is the bashing of modern fashion. Tech Crunch fruit. For most offers. J. Crew quality at H. and M. Pricing. [TS]
00:19:44 ◼ ► Now I don't know any of those words mean but Matt writes me that is a good thing do you know what those are. [TS]
00:19:48 ◼ ► Yeah see a crew quality addiction embracing that's a good thing it's a good thing. [TS]
00:19:56 ◼ ► By visiting a need edition dot com and foremost edition dot com You can even say hello [TS]
00:20:01 ◼ ► and harass them in the live chat which it on the site which is always powered by one of needs employees are met himself. [TS]
00:20:10 ◼ ► Thank you very much to Mel Xander and need addition and foremost edition dot com. Use Code. [TS]
00:20:19 ◼ ► The biggest discount they've ever offered and. Personally as a set match a really nice guy. [TS]
00:20:28 ◼ ► And he's super nice and supports us so I would like to challenge listeners this is not the script. [TS]
00:20:36 ◼ ► Like I want to deplete all of their stock of everything and for most not be tough. Need. We can he can probably do. [TS]
00:20:43 ◼ ► Let's do it let's deplete their entire stock of everything really good are needed to Sion dot com [TS]
00:20:58 ◼ ► So we had a discussion about Reddit last episode and. We got some feedback about that we got nothing wrong. [TS]
00:21:08 ◼ ► Gotten feedback about that we got less than I expected which I was kind of happy about and. [TS]
00:21:23 ◼ ► John would you like to tell us about some of the things that you that you've learned discovered [TS]
00:21:26 ◼ ► or thought about since then. Back when this was in the follow up section. Same song go. [TS]
00:21:31 ◼ ► This topic I mean I thought of like removing a lot of it because I just listened to last week's episode. [TS]
00:21:38 ◼ ► And I was like Yeah I pretty much. I think I pretty much said everything I wanted to say on the topic. [TS]
00:21:44 ◼ ► You know one feedback comes then I had corrections or the fault got there you know the normal pattern of stuff. [TS]
00:21:50 ◼ ► but in that episode I had so many disclaimers like at the end of the thing I was like. [TS]
00:21:56 ◼ ► but it's not the details that I'm talking about I'm trying to address the big picture blah blah blah people don't care [TS]
00:22:05 ◼ ► So I did in the end US didn't especially once Casey moved down to be a topic but there are a couple just straight out. [TS]
00:22:15 ◼ ► One of them was that Reddit is owned by condé Nast and that is no longer the case. [TS]
00:22:23 ◼ ► And then they were owned by kind of asses parent company. But then they were spun out and reincorporated independently. [TS]
00:22:30 ◼ ► And so according to this thing the best characterization might be to say that read it is a part sibling once removed of [TS]
00:22:38 ◼ ► That was something I did not know I got it wrong because every most the details I was just like wing it [TS]
00:22:42 ◼ ► and giving examples in every time I gave an example I was like I know that's probably not accurate or whatever. [TS]
00:22:49 ◼ ► When I did I just didn't write down or memorize the individual factors tried was trying to go big picture. [TS]
00:23:05 ◼ ► As if we had never heard of read like what is this crazy Reddit thing have you heard about this and. [TS]
00:23:10 ◼ ► I don't know about you two guys who are younger than I am but like. If I give the impression that you know. [TS]
00:23:21 ◼ ► but it's not as if read it as this new thing that we just learned about when this controversy came so I went [TS]
00:23:26 ◼ ► and looked up my info at least read it was founded on June twenty third two thousand [TS]
00:23:33 ◼ ► My account at Reddit was created on August eighth two thousand five hundred forty six days after it was founded so I'm [TS]
00:23:41 ◼ ► The site was around the whole forty six days before I joined and was a member for the next ten years. Like again. [TS]
00:23:47 ◼ ► I'm not I'm not a regular member read it right. I do not go there frequently. But I think the. [TS]
00:23:55 ◼ ► The most angry characters ation as a US being entirely at a touch for the read it or just haven't discovered read it. [TS]
00:24:06 ◼ ► Yeah I think part of what we were trying to describe is expressly what an outsider thinks of the situation. [TS]
00:24:12 ◼ ► And I gree with you John I don't think any of us painted us as experts on what the intricacies of how red it works [TS]
00:24:29 ◼ ► or kind of third party that's not really invested in this looking in. It looks kind of gross. And I stand by that. [TS]
00:24:36 ◼ ► Yeah like that's the perspective we were giving as a casual like not as people who are confused by what this whole [TS]
00:24:44 ◼ ► And we're not really that involved in it we know about it we dip in and out of it we see it right. [TS]
00:24:50 ◼ ► But you know and we're not. And I think. I think that's most people like most people are not hardcore read. [TS]
00:24:55 ◼ ► Use is read it has tremendous traffic. Only a small portion of that tremendous traffic. [TS]
00:25:00 ◼ ► Are the sort of very dedicated people who are very invested in read it as a community that's the nature of any high [TS]
00:25:09 ◼ ► and millions of people all of whom are super invested in you that's just that's just you know the numbers right. [TS]
00:25:14 ◼ ► So our perspective as sort of outsiders outside so I think I understand the phenomenon or read it [TS]
00:25:24 ◼ ► But are not so invested in it that sort of any discussion of any negative aspect of read it is seen as a condemnation [TS]
00:25:38 ◼ ► I think I certainly was not particularly interested in the specific details of whatever the controversy of the day is [TS]
00:25:50 ◼ ► And these are the internal politics they're just trying to sell like is written as Reddit a place that we feel like we [TS]
00:26:02 ◼ ► The only somewhat decent feedback Well that's not fair that the feedback that struck me most that we got was someone [TS]
00:26:19 ◼ ► None of the three of us really complained and moaned about Twitter last episode and. [TS]
00:26:24 ◼ ► I didn't really made me think for men and I don't have any good answers. Maybe because I am. [TS]
00:26:31 ◼ ► Pretty invested in Twitter. And I'm invested in what I like to think of as the good corner of Twitter. [TS]
00:26:37 ◼ ► I don't see a lot of the just absolutely vile terrible discussing things that happen on Twitter because they happen. [TS]
00:26:46 ◼ ► I feel like I hear a lot more often about the terrible violent disgusting things that happen on Reddit. [TS]
00:26:54 ◼ ► And I was curious. John or Marco if you guys had any thoughts about why Twitter is OK but read it isn't. [TS]
00:27:06 ◼ ► You can look at both of those and say Wow both of these are absolutely horrible dealing with abusive people. [TS]
00:27:13 ◼ ► That's that's just the way it is in fact Twitter might even be worse I don't know I don't know enough about right to [TS]
00:27:24 ◼ ► and I said like I was feeling some trepidation about going to read it because I felt like I was kind of tacitly [TS]
00:27:35 ◼ ► That I the make me uncomfortable that I don't like right. And I didn't feel that with Twitter. And I think for me. [TS]
00:27:47 ◼ ► I don't see any ads on Twitter so what am I really do is supporting them but you know. [TS]
00:27:51 ◼ ► This feedback from Don is right that like by my participation in Twitter I'm still supporting him whether I see ads [TS]
00:27:56 ◼ ► or not right and I think the reason I feel differently about is not so much with my investment in Twitter. [TS]
00:28:08 ◼ ► They have policies in place that if you were to look at the policies you would say. These are good. [TS]
00:28:13 ◼ ► And they show that Twitter doesn't want this thing to happen. They're really bad implementing those policies. [TS]
00:28:18 ◼ ► Many times their implementation again I like Oh we have a way for you to report people harassment will just lie about [TS]
00:28:23 ◼ ► and like the form of require revealing your personal information of the person you're harassing [TS]
00:28:27 ◼ ► and they would their decision making process but I would not be great on it but like the fact that the Twitter C.E.O. [TS]
00:28:36 ◼ ► And that they have taken positive steps to make them to make their company better. Dealing with the shows that they. [TS]
00:28:48 ◼ ► and that's by design because we don't want to clamp down too much we want to make sure people feel free to say whatever [TS]
00:28:52 ◼ ► they want to say. That's not the message coming out of Twitter at all. Execution was still bad. [TS]
00:28:57 ◼ ► But everything that I have done and everything they have said and done is saying there. [TS]
00:29:04 ◼ ► We want people to feel more welcome on Twitter we want to deal with their Assman probably want to stop this from [TS]
00:29:14 ◼ ► And the thing that's most upsetting to me I read it is the aspirational thing does I don't agree with their aspirations [TS]
00:29:23 ◼ ► I don't like that I don't like that goal state I think Twitter's goal state if you were to talk to the C.E.O. [TS]
00:29:31 ◼ ► I would agree more with what they're going for in terms of a place where people feel like they're free from abusive [TS]
00:29:38 ◼ ► behavior or have free from but have the tools to deal with abusive behavior right. [TS]
00:29:43 ◼ ► That Twitter wants to provide that whereas read it seems to want to provide a safe haven for people to trade ideas [TS]
00:29:55 ◼ ► And again just like I'm glad owners brought this up to the credit of all the people of all the various Reddit people [TS]
00:30:00 ◼ ► who have listened to this thing and sent feedback. Nobody has brought out the old. You know. [TS]
00:30:06 ◼ ► Old saw about like you're trying to say they read it doesn't have a right to exist like I'm so glad that I mean is that [TS]
00:30:17 ◼ ► The general intelligence people who are read it. Not to bring out that ridiculous argument. [TS]
00:30:27 ◼ ► Does this community feel like something that I want to participate and participate in why [TS]
00:30:42 ◼ ► Does the community that they say they want to make is that the type of thing that I think would be broadly appealing [TS]
00:30:49 ◼ ► and I think that's that's where you're going to tell you know like Marco are not alone can get a podcast on a [TS]
00:31:02 ◼ ► Like that that is something that excludes that that would be brought the appealing. [TS]
00:31:06 ◼ ► Because it's not a system of government is just a private web site and a private sideband that type of of content. [TS]
00:31:12 ◼ ► Ever Be Like aren't. You know I'm fine with that like. That is a broadly appealing decision. [TS]
00:31:18 ◼ ► Right then I was like Well now you're really narrowing your audience because if you decide that's what you want your [TS]
00:31:27 ◼ ► Now that's getting to be you know like that that the whole idea that there are that there are standard sort of [TS]
00:31:38 ◼ ► or international community standards that mean if you want something to appeal to the broadest number of people. [TS]
00:31:48 ◼ ► But once you start getting what you know when you start crossing over into like well that just seems like arbitrary [TS]
00:32:09 ◼ ► Maybe that bothers a lot of people especially the sort of logical mindset of like no you can't do that a lot all ideas [TS]
00:32:15 ◼ ► How do you describe that what's different about the gay Hey and left handed people like. [TS]
00:32:19 ◼ ► They there are just it's equivalently arbitrary right there just ideas man. Yeah and I think that. [TS]
00:32:24 ◼ ► That brings down to the reticule and I have someone like to with the current to Reddit C.E.O. [TS]
00:32:34 ◼ ► and I had the best thing about of course the sinking of Marcos complaints about the giant intend indented conversations. [TS]
00:32:39 ◼ ► Nice person emailed the stock for I lost the name because it's somewhere in the in our email but. The Q. [TS]
00:32:46 ◼ ► and A is like a bunch of questions and then with numbers. And then the answers follow them. [TS]
00:32:51 ◼ ► So it's like questions one through seven questions one to three acre you know and then [TS]
00:32:59 ◼ ► Did the same thing and put the question then answer the question then answer instead of a giant list of questions [TS]
00:33:05 ◼ ► and then a giant list of numbered answers and you have to keep like mapping back and forth in your mind [TS]
00:33:08 ◼ ► or keep scrolling back operates a section. To question number two the question was blog now scrolled answer. [TS]
00:33:22 ◼ ► It's not a really welcoming site for people who don't like navigating giant walls of indented text anyway. [TS]
00:33:31 ◼ ► and I which I think as it doesn't in any thing down like they're still trying to work out what the trying to do. [TS]
00:33:36 ◼ ► But I picked out a few examples that spoke to the thing that I find unappealing. About Reddit. [TS]
00:33:43 ◼ ► So again this is the C.E.O. Answering some questions. Mocking and calling people stupid is not harassment. Right. [TS]
00:33:55 ◼ ► And regards a sub read it for mocking another group what is the policy on them blah blah blah so. [TS]
00:34:11 ◼ ► Turning this position around but it basically means is if you come to participate on Reddit. [TS]
00:34:19 ◼ ► It very well may happen that you get mocked and called stupid. But fun like that yet again. [TS]
00:34:27 ◼ ► But I would compare this to the our technical policy to talk about the last show where our technical thing is no ad [TS]
00:34:32 ◼ ► hominem attacks. Have a discussion on the topic at hand. Disagree as by only as you want about do you know whether the. [TS]
00:34:42 ◼ ► But no mocking people are calling them stupid don't attack the person in fact the ideas. [TS]
00:34:49 ◼ ► And I don't think our second has a super high minded site wherever has good behavior it is pretty rough [TS]
00:34:56 ◼ ► It's got all the sort of similar path ologies of the right stuff. And yet our second guy has this rule that says. [TS]
00:35:02 ◼ ► Don't attack the president actually ideas. Read they're saying. Mocking calling people stupid not harassment. [TS]
00:35:06 ◼ ► That's something we think is acceptable behavior in all of our communities it's going to happen it's going to happen to [TS]
00:35:11 ◼ ► you. You can't ban someone for doing it just because they call you stupid or mock you. That. I find that distasteful. [TS]
00:35:19 ◼ ► I don't think that's beyond the pale working like I'll now your side is not broadly appealing. But I think it does. [TS]
00:35:24 ◼ ► I mean like Twitter. If you come to Twitter and people are going to mock you and call you stupid. [TS]
00:35:30 ◼ ► You're not going to like that you're going to want to not see their tweets your own email to block them. [TS]
00:35:33 ◼ ► And if they keep doing it then it might be Congress and but anyway they're categorizing. It's not harassment. [TS]
00:35:38 ◼ ► If you will do what if you come on to read it and everybody says that you're stupid but everyone always says it wants. [TS]
00:35:44 ◼ ► And every time you appear and post anything on Reddit. Each individual person on the entire form. [TS]
00:35:51 ◼ ► Knocks your calls you stupid but only does it once. That's I guess still not harassment. [TS]
00:35:55 ◼ ► Your experience or read it is that any time you appear. No one addresses anything you say. [TS]
00:36:06 ◼ ► Where that I would want to participate and you know that someone there would have to think they're defining. [TS]
00:36:10 ◼ ► Another item. Filling someone's inbox of pms private messages saying kill yourself is harassment. [TS]
00:36:19 ◼ ► If you fill their mbox of private messages that only they can see saying kill yourself. That's harassment. [TS]
00:36:23 ◼ ► But if you just call them stupid in public. That's not that's doesn't make any sense to me either outlining behaviors. [TS]
00:36:30 ◼ ► If you're just telling people private message and saying mean things to them that's that's harassment. [TS]
00:36:41 ◼ ► This is the things that I read that make me feel like. This is not some place that I would like to hang out. [TS]
00:36:46 ◼ ► Because I'm not interested in watching people call each other names even if I'm not involved in an interested in seeing [TS]
00:36:51 ◼ ► people mock each other and call each other stupid I'm interested in an exchange of ideas. [TS]
00:37:02 ◼ ► But the type of communities that can fit within the rules that they're laying down a lot of those communities are [TS]
00:37:12 ◼ ► If you follow the letter of the law as read it appears to be defining things you can have a community that is just [TS]
00:37:17 ◼ ► terrible that all it is is a bunch of people reinforcing their own really bad ideas. [TS]
00:37:22 ◼ ► or as the number one thing was that harboring unpopular ideologies is not a reason for banning. [TS]
00:37:31 ◼ ► Ideology is unpopular I shouldn't be banned. I think when people read that and read it but they have in their mind is. [TS]
00:37:37 ◼ ► If I think enterprise is the best Star Trek series. I shouldn't be banned. That is definitely an unpopular. [TS]
00:37:43 ◼ ► That is an unpopular idea that enterprise has the best are Trek series and so that's kind of what's in their mind yeah. [TS]
00:37:49 ◼ ► Why should I be banned as I'm just you know the tyranny of the majority why should I have to agree with everybody else [TS]
00:37:53 ◼ ► is supposed to be a free and open exchange of ideas. Harboring unpopular ideologies not a reason for banning right. [TS]
00:37:59 ◼ ► But ideologies are different than just ideas or statements or opinions. Harboring unpopular. [TS]
00:38:04 ◼ ► There's lots of unpopular ideologies that you would say are not reasons for Bang. But if your unpopular ideology. [TS]
00:38:11 ◼ ► Is that all black people should be slaves. That is a different unpopular ideology. [TS]
00:38:15 ◼ ► Then you think there should be a flat tax. Of ninety percent and all Americans right. [TS]
00:38:21 ◼ ► and from from a good sort of logical start those are just both unpopular ideologies Why should one be banned in another [TS]
00:38:27 ◼ ► It's all up to a kind of community you want to raise to make especially if you had rules about against like attacking [TS]
00:38:34 ◼ ► I think you could have a community in which that person is really in favor of the ninety percent flat tax on all [TS]
00:38:47 ◼ ► And the person who thinks all black people should be slaves is never going to have a reasonable debate about it like [TS]
00:38:51 ◼ ► they are different by their nature and I think anyone can tell that they're different. But the rules. [TS]
00:38:57 ◼ ► According to letter of the rules they're both unpopular ideologies and neither one is a reason for banning [TS]
00:39:01 ◼ ► and that's the type of community the read it seems to be trying to create. And you know. [TS]
00:39:06 ◼ ► Go for it like that that's a bomb makers on the make That's why if that's what I'm getting at when I say [TS]
00:39:13 ◼ ► What are we trying to make Reddit become like they're still working on the details and that's [TS]
00:39:16 ◼ ► when I got to have it all figured out how to cite only ten years old you know take your time. [TS]
00:39:30 ◼ ► Allow for a lot of things that would definitely be beyond what regular people want to get involved in. [TS]
00:39:38 ◼ ► And I guess the final only final item I have on this is a couple people saying the bad stuff on Reddit doesn't affect [TS]
00:39:43 ◼ ► me some people saying the bad stuff I read it does affect them and their thinking of pulling back. [TS]
00:39:49 ◼ ► There is something to be said about some bread it's that you don't go to not affecting your life. [TS]
00:39:54 ◼ ► Read it with the cat pictures. Right. And I think this gets back to like it all of red it's you know. [TS]
00:40:00 ◼ ► Are all people read a bad No I was out the vast vast majority of people who are heavily participate even like the super [TS]
00:40:06 ◼ ► That may just want to take out pictures man like you know it's all good likeness great forms there in the where they [TS]
00:40:16 ◼ ► The rules that allow all that great stuff to bloom on farm on farm on read it also allows them bad stuff. [TS]
00:40:26 ◼ ► But sometimes those people wander over to your and if i even if they don't wander over. [TS]
00:40:30 ◼ ► You know you're participating in a system that provides a little incubate air for these people to reinforce their own [TS]
00:40:36 ◼ ► ideas and recruit new people and even if they stay within the letter of the law. On the read the sobriquet stuff. [TS]
00:40:44 ◼ ► It's basically an organization. Tool for things that you don't want to happen. Like. [TS]
00:40:49 ◼ ► So fun maybe that you know each other privately about inciting violence maybe they. [TS]
00:40:56 ◼ ► and I do all things I was always going to don't do it on Reddit it's fine like what do you think these communities [TS]
00:41:02 ◼ ► And if you are on Reddit sometime people who bought it like I stick to the cat. Picture. Read some bread and I'm fine. [TS]
00:41:09 ◼ ► And I don't associate with them at all. I don't think the cat picture Reddit people are tainted by the other people. [TS]
00:41:14 ◼ ► But they are participating in a system that allows for that whereas if you're on Twitter. [TS]
00:41:22 ◼ ► But does because they're incompetent about in forcing it so I think. I think that is a fine line there like. [TS]
00:41:27 ◼ ► It's not clear cut. It is definitely not clear cut but I do like where Twitter says it's trying to go. And so far. [TS]
00:41:35 ◼ ► Where read it says it's trying to go. Does and doesn't match up with what I prefer. [TS]
00:41:41 ◼ ► It just seems like they pride themselves in these decisions that. Like you I find kind of distasteful and. [TS]
00:41:54 ◼ ► Just like you said saying enterprise is the best Star Trek is a very very very different thing than saying that you [TS]
00:42:01 ◼ ► know all black people should be slaves it's just one is not an ideology that's why I said the flat tax the like the [TS]
00:42:06 ◼ ► ninety percent flat tax it's more of an ideology or like Marxism or communism or some really unpopular. [TS]
00:42:15 ◼ ► Like there are certain there are certain ideologies that we collectively all agree as society are so distasteful that. [TS]
00:42:22 ◼ ► You know that they wouldn't. You wouldn't want them to be. You don't want them to be part of your community. Right. [TS]
00:42:29 ◼ ► Like people talking about that groups discussing it like again. Because your community is a private web site. [TS]
00:42:34 ◼ ► Obviously you know we're not the United States government people who go out to protest say what they want print what [TS]
00:42:39 ◼ ► they want to whatever you want to talk about what kind of community does Reddit want to create on their private website. [TS]
00:42:48 ◼ ► and the enterprise example so that's why I'm trying to come up with something that is like non-controversial [TS]
00:42:53 ◼ ► but it's also an ideology that is super unpopular but. But I think. Perfectly OK to discuss in a constructive way. [TS]
00:43:00 ◼ ► You know I mean. Yeah absolutely. All right anything else on Reddit Marco you've been quiet for a while any thoughts. [TS]
00:43:11 ◼ ► And the drama of what seems like a really. Fragmented and sometimes good but sometimes extremely problematic. [TS]
00:43:27 ◼ ► It's not really the specifics of read it that I care about so much failing and I'm not sure that regular user [TS]
00:43:36 ◼ ► If something bad happens to it's there or it diminishes that I'll be going to the world. [TS]
00:43:39 ◼ ► Oh that's not what read it or sink so well you know. I think I'll be fine. But anyway. It is. [TS]
00:43:45 ◼ ► I think it's just a good example of how. If you read like these guidelines. They all seem to make sense. [TS]
00:43:53 ◼ ► You know like you read them and you feel they're egalitarian they're high minded or whatever. But you know. [TS]
00:44:01 ◼ ► and credibly insightful podcast once said it's ramifications harboring unpopular ideology is not a reason for banning That [TS]
00:44:09 ◼ ► What are the ramifications of that what do you what what what does that lead to what are these series of guidelines [TS]
00:44:14 ◼ ► laid to mocking calling people stupid is not harassment. What kind of community you build with just set of guidelines. [TS]
00:44:25 ◼ ► I'm going to get called on this and I think it's true I'm making the extrapolation that. [TS]
00:44:31 ◼ ► And because I think I kind of understand what is generally accepted to be sort of like OK within polite society. [TS]
00:44:39 ◼ ► Certain things that fit within these the letter of these guidelines are things that most people will find distasteful [TS]
00:44:49 ◼ ► People do not want to be associated with that in general advertiser certainly don't write. And just general people. [TS]
00:45:04 ◼ ► That's why it's hard to write down rules and if you write down the rules for it's like all slippery slope [TS]
00:45:07 ◼ ► and you're going to ban everything right. But it's something that every community. [TS]
00:45:13 ◼ ► Of real people virtual communities everything. I think deals with much more naturally and and calmly like. [TS]
00:45:24 ◼ ► If you had a bowling league and people came in the ball only it and him are mocking people and calling them stupid. [TS]
00:45:31 ◼ ► And you're like well that's not against. You know that's not like people tell your jokes I want to bowl of you anymore. [TS]
00:45:38 ◼ ► They must be allowed to do that because we need to allow them to put their head forwards into our database. [TS]
00:45:43 ◼ ► Otherwise we're monsters. You know free speech. Doesn't mean what you think it means. [TS]
00:45:54 ◼ ► That makes it fast and easy to create your own professional website portfolio or online store for a free trial [TS]
00:45:59 ◼ ► and ten percent off this is chorus base dot com and enter offer code A.T.P. At checkout. [TS]
00:46:09 ◼ ► You can create such a beautiful designs that look professionally designed regardless of your skill level. [TS]
00:46:17 ◼ ► and inject your own code you can do that to all these designs are responsive zero website schedule a great [TS]
00:46:24 ◼ ► and every website plan includes a free online store with commerce functionality if you want to use it scares over [TS]
00:46:41 ◼ ► You're not going to get hacked you're not going to go down you're going to be fine. [TS]
00:46:48 ◼ ► And some of the most respected brands in the world. All the started just eight bucks a month. [TS]
00:46:53 ◼ ► A sign for a whole year of front you've got a freedom a name. Now. We've all many of us listening to the show. [TS]
00:46:59 ◼ ► Are programmers or are able to build websites in other ways. With other tools we've all probably done it. [TS]
00:47:05 ◼ ► Many of us have probably done it. Many of us either used or written other C.M.S. Is or used other services. [TS]
00:47:15 ◼ ► Square spaces so much easier and more fully featured than anything I could ever write and. [TS]
00:47:20 ◼ ► Even if you want to write your own site let you know I do that a lot of them. I'm that kind of nerd. [TS]
00:47:25 ◼ ► There are still so many opportunities to use something like square space that you might come across. [TS]
00:47:30 ◼ ► You know if you're making as I first side project. You don't need to write your own C.M.S. [TS]
00:47:34 ◼ ► To make a side project so you can as you Squarespace if you're recommending something to of to a friend [TS]
00:47:42 ◼ ► You can recommend Squarespace that's what I did with my kids preschool and with a couple of friends. It's great. [TS]
00:47:56 ◼ ► Squarespace fills all those rules it is so easy it is so full featured you get so much for free. Check it out. [TS]
00:48:06 ◼ ► Just start building a site if you have an idea first site if you want to fool around. [TS]
00:48:09 ◼ ► Start building a free trial site right now at square space dot com. When you decide to sign up for square spaces. [TS]
00:48:15 ◼ ► Make sure to use the offer code A.T.P. To get ten percent off your first purchase. Squarespace build it beautiful. [TS]
00:48:21 ◼ ► So one of the things that's been announced for Al kepe town. Is this really listening thing and. [TS]
00:48:29 ◼ ► I have not had a chance to look into this at all but I'm very fascinated by what it means to me. [TS]
00:48:34 ◼ ► And I say that because my day to day life is. I live in V.M. Ware Fusion and. I am running Windows and V.M. [TS]
00:48:48 ◼ ► That this will not affect the I'm refusing at all or it may be that the a more fusion will have to or V.M. [TS]
00:48:55 ◼ ► Ware will have to go to extraordinarily extraordinary lengths. In order to get themselves back to where they are today. [TS]
00:49:08 ◼ ► Framing for this as a one to a brief review of the basic UNIX security it said that it was ten has. [TS]
00:49:21 ◼ ► There are user accounts on us ten you log in to one maybe a log in one by default. Your user account. [TS]
00:49:33 ◼ ► You can only mess with for the most part the files that you own or that have commissions for anyone in your group [TS]
00:49:39 ◼ ► or anyone at all to modify and in practice what that means is the operating system itself. And other users crap. [TS]
00:49:46 ◼ ► Does not have the Russian set on that allow you to do anything to it. So the files to make up the operating system. [TS]
00:49:52 ◼ ► Are owned by different user there. They're in a different group. And you as your regular user can mess with them. [TS]
00:49:57 ◼ ► You can have an administrative user which has been some elevated privilege groups including including something to lets [TS]
00:50:03 ◼ ► them. Become the superuser like when you're on something ask you to enter an admin user password. [TS]
00:50:09 ◼ ► That's elevating your privileges to OK Now even though you logged into whatever your account is now you have super your [TS]
00:50:15 ◼ ► words are privileges. You can modify anything on the system. And usually you doing it on. [TS]
00:50:20 ◼ ► Half a program that wants to mess with files that otherwise you as a user wouldn't be able to mess with. [TS]
00:50:25 ◼ ► And this was seen by mac users as a little bit of an annoyance but also as a as a big win of like oh finally. [TS]
00:50:33 ◼ ► I'll only be able to mess with my files by default so you can also make non admin account they can't elevate their [TS]
00:50:39 ◼ ► You have to enter some other administrative account password tell their privileges so those people maybe couldn't. [TS]
00:50:54 ◼ ► but it's worth keeping in mind is that right so so you have an anonymous account which that lot of people recommend you [TS]
00:50:59 ◼ ► have anon I'm in account because that way you can't elevate your girly just a level where you can modify anything [TS]
00:51:04 ◼ ► and all you ever be able to modify is your own files you can't delete the operating system you can mess of anything [TS]
00:51:08 ◼ ► like that. So if somehow malware got onto your system or hijacked your web browser or whatever. [TS]
00:51:16 ◼ ► And it was running as you the low the user. It would only be able to modify files on bite you. [TS]
00:51:21 ◼ ► Well guess what if they delete everything in your home directory owned by you you're going to be super sad because [TS]
00:51:29 ◼ ► You don't in the end you don't really care about the operating system or or so this this counter the Unix. [TS]
00:51:38 ◼ ► But you own all of the pictures that are you know in your I fought a library all the music with your ideas [TS]
00:51:42 ◼ ► and all the documents all your reports all your homework things all your work files all your source code that's all on [TS]
00:51:50 ◼ ► So what does this little model where I have a regular user and then the root user. [TS]
00:51:55 ◼ ► As I'll better privileging it doesn't really help me like it's something if some piece of code runs loose on my system. [TS]
00:52:03 ◼ ► The sort of counter to love the Unix security Mel It sounds so great really doesn't doesn't help me because I still can [TS]
00:52:07 ◼ ► delete all my stuff. That is all true. But that's not why Maori want to do most of the time. [TS]
00:52:14 ◼ ► Malware kind of like a viruses that kill their host really fast. Like a literal you know. [TS]
00:52:18 ◼ ► Biological viruses malware that wants to either be useful or to spread. Can't kill toast immediately. [TS]
00:52:24 ◼ ► Now where the Demille delete someone's hard drive is not going to get very far because it's not going to have a chance [TS]
00:52:32 ◼ ► You know not delete the heart of delete all their files like that will be really obvious that all their crap is gonna [TS]
00:52:36 ◼ ► going to be super mad and I won't spread. What malware wants to do both both for spreading purposes and. [TS]
00:52:41 ◼ ► Like why do they want to spread. Want to spread because it wants to become a powerful thing. [TS]
00:52:49 ◼ ► To make it a slave of your bot net to let it mine for bitcoins to launch. Distributed Denial of Service attacks. [TS]
00:52:55 ◼ ► To do keystroke logging to steal pictures to turn on the webcam record people like the one most now where wants to do [TS]
00:53:03 ◼ ► is be hidden and doesn't want to delete all your files they'll be really obvious. And you would notice. [TS]
00:53:11 ◼ ► It wants to get it took since your system an invisible way. And that's where the standard Unix. [TS]
00:53:21 ◼ ► and your system what it really wants to do is modify files that are part of the operating system so we can like a lot [TS]
00:53:25 ◼ ► of all the keystrokes of every user logged in or are control the hardware in ways that an individual user could. [TS]
00:53:31 ◼ ► It wants to sort of infect the binary is that you run a lot of which are applications install the application fold of [TS]
00:53:36 ◼ ► the maybe you don't own business or installed by different user or menus or infect the operating system itself [TS]
00:53:44 ◼ ► And so having a separate set of her missions where plain old. Your plain old user account. Can't modify system files. [TS]
00:53:51 ◼ ► Can't install kernel extensions that. That intercept all your keystrokes of that's a good thing right. [TS]
00:53:58 ◼ ► So that's the content that's not the current situation having to have anything about Al Capp attention right. [TS]
00:54:04 ◼ ► System Integrity protection a ruthless moto whatever is trying to do is add another layer of protection which is. [TS]
00:54:09 ◼ ► Instead of just having your regular user that can elevate you know the privileges up to the root user that can do [TS]
00:54:16 ◼ ► anything and having the user account that can do anything they want to say OK. A regular user account. [TS]
00:54:22 ◼ ► Some of those regular user accounts are admin users who can elevate their privileges to root level. [TS]
00:54:28 ◼ ► So even if you elevate your permissions by entering an admin password you become the reviews or whatever. [TS]
00:54:36 ◼ ► And the some stuff that they can't do is modify system files that inject their code into other running processes. [TS]
00:54:51 ◼ ► That's the whole point of the super user they are. You know I did hear they can do anything they want. [TS]
00:54:56 ◼ ► Doesn't matter who owns it doesn't matter they can do everything this. This is limiting the power of the root user. [TS]
00:55:02 ◼ ► And it's doing that because history has shown that it's not too difficult to take and him in user account [TS]
00:55:17 ◼ ► And this isn't even if i'm our gets that far as the malware finds tricks a user into entering their men pass around [TS]
00:55:26 ◼ ► We still don't want them to be able to mess with the operating system not because the operating system is super [TS]
00:55:32 ◼ ► But because that's what malware wants to do to really take over the computer to really like you know install that key [TS]
00:55:37 ◼ ► logger they get every single keystroke every user ever typed on this computer and you know. [TS]
00:55:55 ◼ ► and the details those of us who details of this isn't doubled over to c section seven zero six innocuously name [TS]
00:56:05 ◼ ► when I was at that we had everything being Arkansas like what are they can tell whether that's boring [TS]
00:56:11 ◼ ► They were there freely available will put a link on the show if you can take a look at it. [TS]
00:56:19 ◼ ► Like the directory is there limiting to the system only is like flash systems last bins less user slash Espanola things [TS]
00:56:25 ◼ ► you would expect them to forbid messing with. Were you supposed to put your stuff your unix the stuff. Your local like. [TS]
00:56:36 ◼ ► and use a local user local belongs to the user Apple will not blow away on system installs I've been using it for a [TS]
00:56:49 ◼ ► And of course in your home directory and all sorts of stuff like that the limitations they're adding here. You know. [TS]
00:57:02 ◼ ► Ramifications of them that are worth considering like you know can modify system binary got find should do that anyway. [TS]
00:57:08 ◼ ► Can stall things in system locations that's fine Colonel extensions have to be signed all they had to be signed already [TS]
00:57:15 ◼ ► There may be some badly behaved software out there that does currently try to shove stuff into been user Espen [TS]
00:57:21 ◼ ► Ware does but it's pretty easy going to fix that by just picking up stuff and user locals lie that's why I think the [TS]
00:57:28 ◼ ► and where I think as Karl extensions I don't know Casey I marry you never pay close enough attention [TS]
00:57:34 ◼ ► You can still have kernel extensions concepts are still saying they have to just have to be signed. [TS]
00:57:40 ◼ ► Approval process or something of on but like you know official safety tips are to be more doesn't have content. [TS]
00:57:45 ◼ ► But anyway. You can still have kernel extensions that have to be signed and I says a dozen there signed anyway. [TS]
00:57:55 ◼ ► and that's not a big deal either it's just probably like installers that put stuff in Flash been just because their [TS]
00:58:01 ◼ ► And they really should put it in your local band and then you know modify people's path or do whatever they have to do. [TS]
00:58:12 ◼ ► You know can't use the trace probes on each project it processes all sorts of stuff like that. [TS]
00:58:19 ◼ ► Obviously you can't disabled by becoming root so you're not going to do su do some command. [TS]
00:58:24 ◼ ► And then turn it off as the whole point is the Brits power is limited. If you want to disable it. [TS]
00:58:28 ◼ ► You have to boot into the recovery alas and disable it from there the little recovery partition I put in there. [TS]
00:58:34 ◼ ► The configuration changes are starting end of your RAM and if huge to few turn off this mode. If you say. [TS]
00:58:44 ◼ ► or that setting will persist across all across our Western style so if you install a new I. [TS]
00:58:49 ◼ ► Want something turn back on or whatever says they're trying to be friendly about this. [TS]
00:58:52 ◼ ► All of the slide say this system of how to actually unable to so I don't want to solve a change problem [TS]
00:59:05 ◼ ► If you turned off the kernel extension signing verification nobody wanted to do that it was scary I don't think I am [TS]
00:59:13 ◼ ► But there are around as occasions for this type of decision in the one that came to my mind immediately after hearing [TS]
00:59:20 ◼ ► and all a developer is complaining for years about the things that the mac app store doesn't allow to exist like the [TS]
00:59:26 ◼ ► kinds of apps that. That aren't allowed and I got star. Are very often the most interesting apps that me. [TS]
00:59:31 ◼ ► And I want to thought of immediately. Is Dropbox a fairly popular application. That got its start. The macros in of it. [TS]
00:59:39 ◼ ► Got it started by. You know making that magical folder that sinks. But one of the key features I think of Dropbox. [TS]
00:59:45 ◼ ► When it was introduced and to this day. Is that when you install Dropbox on the left hand. [TS]
00:59:53 ◼ ► and you drag things into it a little a badge is your little icon like a little blue spinny thing. [TS]
00:59:58 ◼ ► And went completely sink you get a little green checkmark batch. And those little badges. [TS]
01:00:02 ◼ ► Like it's like oh it's just a magical folder but also there's a little extra bit of you why that tells me [TS]
01:00:09 ◼ ► There are many if you just drop the committed off older with an icon it does a bunch of magic stuff behind the scenes. [TS]
01:00:18 ◼ ► That pops up but the little icon badges. How to hold a little and little icon badges to the finder. [TS]
01:00:23 ◼ ► I didn't install an alternate version of find it well they did. They did in memory patching of the Finder process. [TS]
01:00:32 ◼ ► And they would inject their own code into the running. Image of the Finder. To make it do those little bedrest. [TS]
01:00:40 ◼ ► You could not have Dropbox in a world where it was not exist in the old days obviously now you can because Apple made [TS]
01:00:46 ◼ ► an official A.P.I. For it because there are no dummies I know Dropbox really popular. [TS]
01:00:49 ◼ ► But I'm thinking of as the next innovative app like Dropbox like. You know if Dropbox didn't exist. [TS]
01:00:56 ◼ ► El Capitan came out. Became the dominant one stall and someone had the idea for Dropbox. [TS]
01:01:05 ◼ ► The path that followed was do something super nasty that Apple doesn't like keep fighting Apple for years to to be able [TS]
01:01:14 ◼ ► Eventually become so popular that Apple is forced to give you an idea of your nefesh will A.P.I. [TS]
01:01:19 ◼ ► And then have Apple close the door behind you and say Now no one else can do what Dropbox did and. [TS]
01:01:26 ◼ ► This is the type of thing that I worry about from without all the apples policies. [TS]
01:01:32 ◼ ► Not so much that like they're going to stop me as user from doing what I want because I was pretty good least I was ten. [TS]
01:01:40 ◼ ► but that is necessarily limiting the types of things creative. Third party developers can do. [TS]
01:01:48 ◼ ► Where where is the next Dropbox go is an extra box can even be on the mac is even to be able to get off the ground as [TS]
01:01:54 ◼ ► it is it going to be able to get to the point where it can get to a level of popularity where Apple is forced to put [TS]
01:02:04 ◼ ► Or is Apple just slowly closing the door on interesting application ideas which have never been a veil of elbow [TS]
01:02:15 ◼ ► It's been the remaining area where people can try some crazy sorts of things. And even if Apple have an official A.B.I. [TS]
01:02:29 ◼ ► and this company's been doing it in super dangerous ways for years maybe you can give them [TS]
01:02:37 ◼ ► Because no one's going to be able to tell every day like Dropbox could not have gotten off the ground if they had to [TS]
01:02:43 ◼ ► and turn out the security thing you know I understand then install Dropbox is great. Nobody would do it. [TS]
01:02:53 ◼ ► Surrounding the snowed are just and Taggerty or whatever you want to call it and now Capitan. [TS]
01:02:59 ◼ ► Do you think some degree of that might be solved by market forces if necessary so for instance suppose like you know [TS]
01:03:06 ◼ ► one of the ways that a lot of these but one of the most common categories of this kind of thing [TS]
01:03:16 ◼ ► Aren't most of those using some kind of thing with those the only possible anymore. They were back in the day. [TS]
01:03:21 ◼ ► I don't know if they are. That's thing that goes. Is Apple have an official A.B.I. [TS]
01:03:28 ◼ ► and remember I'm not sure any way you can look at situations like that where there's some system app. [TS]
01:03:35 ◼ ► And it has some shortcomings or there's some compelling features that can only be added by these kind of things right. [TS]
01:03:42 ◼ ► So you're saying like you know we're not going to see those at all I'm saying we will probably still see that like if. [TS]
01:03:49 ◼ ► If it's compelling enough we will still see those things. But we will see them just. In other places. [TS]
01:03:57 ◼ ► Dropbox like we just won't see it on Mackley you know if that kind of thing is not possible it'll come to windows first. [TS]
01:04:06 ◼ ► Mobile really matters so much I'm not sure some like that could launch today and end up mattering. But regardless. [TS]
01:04:12 ◼ ► You know it would go on the platforms first. In the case of application plugins like Mel plugins. [TS]
01:04:17 ◼ ► If those become not possible. Through any kind of release protection or anything like that. [TS]
01:04:23 ◼ ► Then we'll just see things like alternative mail clients coming up with compelling features instead. [TS]
01:04:29 ◼ ► Do you think that's so that's an equivalent thing though like the people who would make the mail plugin making a full [TS]
01:04:35 ◼ ► fledge Malfoy occasion that includes a feature that you're on as a way higher bar than figuring out how to hack some [TS]
01:04:40 ◼ ► plugin into mailed. Well look at where the innovations happening now. It's not an email it's in G. Mail. Anyway. [TS]
01:04:46 ◼ ► You know it's maybe that was a bad example. But you know there are things like that we're like. [TS]
01:04:54 ◼ ► To gain traction and get out and maybe it's harder maybe some of them are closed off. But over. All you know this is. [TS]
01:05:05 ◼ ► In the early days you could just like you know screwball over memory now we have projected memory [TS]
01:05:19 ◼ ► but like I you know as technology progresses we're getting more and more protections in safety is around. [TS]
01:05:27 ◼ ► You know things like system processes and user securing everything and all that and most of these protections. Cut off. [TS]
01:05:34 ◼ ► Categories of apps and hacks and add ons that were previously possible. And so far. [TS]
01:05:40 ◼ ► You can look back at these progressions and. I don't think anybody's arguing that we should. [TS]
01:05:47 ◼ ► Overall I think we really have made substantial improvements. By adding more protection over time. [TS]
01:05:55 ◼ ► You know like the political downside of these protections are things like They're not being over to side load apps [TS]
01:06:12 ◼ ► and put it on their device without doing any weird stuff right. Well yeah I mean yes that's true it's you know. [TS]
01:06:19 ◼ ► That's of limited usefulness Maybe because most people are not going to be able to do that but just skill wise [TS]
01:06:25 ◼ ► Regard less these protections over time generally improve computing for people they generally improve stability [TS]
01:06:32 ◼ ► and improve security. And usually we look at the mall and say you know what we're better off now. [TS]
01:06:40 ◼ ► There's only you know some of them might be might be restrictive to applications that innovation and everything [TS]
01:06:47 ◼ ► I think the the percentage of those is going to be extremely low relative like everything that matters in computing [TS]
01:06:56 ◼ ► I think it's moving away from places where it's important to be able to inject code in random places [TS]
01:07:03 ◼ ► I don't think we're seeing a lot of that kind of innovation anymore I don't think we will because just the way the [TS]
01:07:10 ◼ ► How likely is it that the next disruptive start was going to be a finder hack. You know it's honestly not that life. [TS]
01:07:15 ◼ ► How likely wasn't a game of the but it was like it totally was the Helped are from Dropbox with essentially. [TS]
01:07:25 ◼ ► but like I don't think it's outside their own possibility as doors close obviously it's like oh we came to be seeing [TS]
01:07:29 ◼ ► less of these hacks will no doubt you're seeing less of these acts because they're making them less possible. [TS]
01:07:33 ◼ ► But I agree with you like I think. I wouldn't I'm not arguing against these protections but I think. [TS]
01:07:40 ◼ ► If you're going to add these protections which I think you should do you have to modify your other policies to match [TS]
01:07:50 ◼ ► Intentionally or not when I was relying on is sneaky clever people find ways to bypass things [TS]
01:07:56 ◼ ► and do things that we don't want them to do. We will be angry about it and try to stop them. [TS]
01:08:02 ◼ ► But despite our best efforts some of them are going to have wildly popular and then we'll grudgingly add official A.B.I. [TS]
01:08:07 ◼ ► Support. And whether that is a conscious strategy or just like how things turn out. [TS]
01:08:13 ◼ ► That is sort of the lifecycle of the of the innovative software application. Right on the Apple platform. [TS]
01:08:20 ◼ ► And if you change that lifecycle by saying you know what we want to cut out the early part where they do that as you [TS]
01:08:26 ◼ ► think in the gross way that we don't think we should because it's dumb like we don't want people hacking I don't want [TS]
01:08:31 ◼ ► You know I didn't like the fact the dropbox did in memory hacking remember finding ways to disable by removing a little [TS]
01:08:35 ◼ ► context menu like injecting things up like that like. That's all bad. But if you take that away. [TS]
01:08:46 ◼ ► You know a bunch of developers have a reasonable request for system A.B.I. Support for badging icons in the Finder. [TS]
01:08:58 ◼ ► and egg you can't say no matter how many developers say boy we really wish there was a way we could intercept audio [TS]
01:09:06 ◼ ► or whatever like even if it's fifteen different companies or even of like Adobe and Microsoft that Apple is like. [TS]
01:09:12 ◼ ► I have that doesn't seem important as you shouldn't do that anyway like like there isn't there is no alternate [TS]
01:09:17 ◼ ► lifecycle for these innovations. It's their cutting off one way for these things to come out and. [TS]
01:09:22 ◼ ► I don't see them opening up to the point where like we're willing to entertain your suggestions for a new A.P.I. [TS]
01:09:27 ◼ ► As even if it's a lot of work for example meant. And it will only benefit you as a third party. [TS]
01:09:36 ◼ ► Like they need to do you need to make an alternate path. Like I put just put a link in the shots of M.P. [TS]
01:09:45 ◼ ► Which is the thing about hacks these are the Larry Wall quote which is not really his quote [TS]
01:09:49 ◼ ► but he's quoting somebody else about university campus where they don't pay anything they just let people walk around [TS]
01:10:01 ◼ ► And it's really like you need to come up with a good way to find out right to people really want to put benches in [TS]
01:10:06 ◼ ► there I conjure is just something some random kid at MIT thinks would be cool for people to have. [TS]
01:10:11 ◼ ► It's not even a product just a feature like it doesn't sound like could. What's his name. Drew whatever. [TS]
01:10:18 ◼ ► Could he somehow have commenced Apple to add an official A.P.I. For badging icons in the Finder. [TS]
01:10:23 ◼ ► I don't see how this any way he could possibly do it like there needs but there needs to be some way for. [TS]
01:10:29 ◼ ► If you can't do it by hacking away. What is the official way of doing what is the official way of making. [TS]
01:10:39 ◼ ► A viable place for you to do this new innovative thing that currently there is no well supported way to do [TS]
01:10:45 ◼ ► and I guess that Mark was like well they can't do it here we'll do it first on Windows or whatever like. [TS]
01:10:55 ◼ ► I don't think Apple would be happy with the answer that was what the innovation happening on the platform them all [TS]
01:11:01 ◼ ► But innovation is weird in that you can't predict what it's going to want so you have to have some way for the people [TS]
01:11:12 ◼ ► And that's a harder problem I think because back when you just let them hack stuff up. [TS]
01:11:16 ◼ ► You got that you didn't have to decide you were like well that person had a crazy hack [TS]
01:11:19 ◼ ► and no one cares that person at a crazy Acca known carries that wonder because you have no one cares all this person to [TS]
01:11:26 ◼ ► Apple can't make that call how does app another this is going to listen to all those guys. [TS]
01:11:32 ◼ ► In some respects the old one where you let the people hike your system was easier for Apple. [TS]
01:11:36 ◼ ► But now they're kind of putting themselves on the hook the their box out these creative ideas. [TS]
01:11:41 ◼ ► Or find some new way to sort of vet which crazy ideas are worth implementing. And which aren't. [TS]
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01:12:00 ◼ ► Casey John knows how painful internets can be. Usually work Internets are awful the content is stale. [TS]
01:12:07 ◼ ► The interface is ugly and you can't access it on your phone or do really and he really useful on mobile. [TS]
01:12:12 ◼ ► Igloo is an Internet you'll actually like because designed for the user. In the modern world. [TS]
01:12:17 ◼ ► Igloo gives you the flexibility to get your work done how you want to where you want to and I what ever device. [TS]
01:12:31 ◼ ► With a glue Internet you can share news you can organize your files you can coordinate calendars and manage projects. [TS]
01:12:44 ◼ ► But drag and drop widgets and I'm with you wig editor that's what you see is what you get. [TS]
01:12:51 ◼ ► And it will make use of response of web design to look fantastic on all your devices [TS]
01:12:55 ◼ ► and they have an amazing advance document engine. You can preview and annotate documents. All with H.T.M.L. Five. [TS]
01:13:02 ◼ ► So it works with everything from a computer always on to even a Blackberry. It works on every device. It's responsive. [TS]
01:13:13 ◼ ► and you don't you can let them have their out the fun you can have your department have the nice pretty fun. [TS]
01:13:19 ◼ ► It is so it really brings the best together of things like microblogging services and collaborative document [TS]
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01:13:35 ◼ ► really quite impressive. Check it out. So I am but a glue Software dot com slash A.T.P. For a free trial. [TS]
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01:13:49 ◼ ► For a free trial and get started today. Thanks a lot to glue for sponsoring our show once again. [TS]
01:13:54 ◼ ► Before we leave this topic. Real time fall from the need to be tipster V.M. Ware doesn't. [TS]
01:13:58 ◼ ► Shove stuff in the system directory is V.M. Ware does use kernel extensions and V.M. [TS]
01:14:09 ◼ ► and also to like me because various Audio Hijack products stuff like that those all have signed Caxton So those will [TS]
01:14:16 ◼ ► all still work as well so I mean I think they're not available nightcap star right no definitely. Well. [TS]
01:14:23 ◼ ► But couldn't be available not just because their choice to put it there but they could not but the. [TS]
01:14:27 ◼ ► My understanding is that you could not put audio hijacked on the mag outside violates the guidelines of the NY cops are. [TS]
01:14:32 ◼ ► As far as me that's true I mean like like there are certain loopholes like like some apps will. [TS]
01:14:39 ◼ ► but then to do anything fun yes like go to their website and download it's optional extra component [TS]
01:14:43 ◼ ► and all sorts the fight that like there are there are different hacks but for the most part. [TS]
01:14:47 ◼ ► I think whether something is allowed in the mac app store is almost completely irrelevant to the possible innovation [TS]
01:14:57 ◼ ► Because the fact is the maggots Tory just adds a disaster if in so many ways I mean the actual app itself from use [TS]
01:15:04 ◼ ► perspective is awful. The policies are Draco nian and restrictive and oppressive and way worse than I.I.S. [TS]
01:15:18 ◼ ► You know it's just awful if there's a so many things about it are terrible. That we can't say that. Well that. [TS]
01:15:24 ◼ ► If that won't fly in the mag ops door then it won't happen in the mac because the fact is it's going to the point now [TS]
01:15:29 ◼ ► where the App Store is really a ghost town and almost everything good in the mac is outside of it. [TS]
01:15:34 ◼ ► But like the my cat story. As for as as bad as it isn't. People may be leaving it. [TS]
01:15:41 ◼ ► Sort of like like sand but the fact the sandboxing was there first and was a requirement and. [TS]
01:15:47 ◼ ► You know the don't want you to do any sort of hacks and go on to install stuff like Apple wishes all apps. [TS]
01:15:52 ◼ ► Whereas night. Nice and neat and self self-contained as the mac app store guidelines dictate.. [TS]
01:15:59 ◼ ► Yeah but the backup store it's like. It's like X. H.T.M.L. You really hit X H T M L don't you pull that one out. [TS]
01:16:07 ◼ ► Well no it just it was a great example of like like the cat was already out of the bag ever it was already doing things [TS]
01:16:13 ◼ ► And this dance group some but they are going to lock everything down to be very restrictive informal. [TS]
01:16:17 ◼ ► Here's the new way to do it and everyone basically just said. No it's actually female had it had a transitional D.T. [TS]
01:16:25 ◼ ► but I think the mag out store is more like it's all going to be as expressions like. [TS]
01:16:33 ◼ ► but the limitations of the I got story like. I really feel like they express what Apple wishes. [TS]
01:16:47 ◼ ► and I don't think they also are enough of an overlap with what users actually want. [TS]
01:16:52 ◼ ► I think applications like Audio Hijack fill a need for people who want the type of application like. [TS]
01:17:10 ◼ ► History has shown so far that Apple has been really good about like well how does NOT count store. [TS]
01:17:16 ◼ ► Show you what we want to be what we're not going to stop you from a lot of crap like will do everything we can like [TS]
01:17:24 ◼ ► and they even have like the gatekeeper setting toggle back from the insecure want to secure one if you like Turn Turn [TS]
01:17:31 ◼ ► And you don't launch an app that wouldn't be allowed like a toggle back like that trying to do everything they can most [TS]
01:17:35 ◼ ► loud and power users to do what they want. But still they just want everything to be kind of heard over there. [TS]
01:17:43 ◼ ► What if you know this you go through the exercise and say what if you really did want everything to be [TS]
01:17:48 ◼ ► and I got started now you couldn't have Photoshop. Anymore. How would you square that circle. [TS]
01:17:54 ◼ ► You know I was asked do something because you're not going to like well tough luck at all we've got to rewrite their [TS]
01:17:57 ◼ ► applications office and I got star like they would they would figure out Hedo be what you need to get like. [TS]
01:18:03 ◼ ► And they just don't seem to to extend that sort of effort to these smaller applications [TS]
01:18:12 ◼ ► and care about is either not the mac apps that are not in the mac app store only and more [TS]
01:18:17 ◼ ► and more software that people do care about is leaving the I got started was too much of a hassle to be there. [TS]
01:18:24 ◼ ► But about the poster child for like doing things the Apple way they're practically a miniature Apple. [TS]
01:18:28 ◼ ► Even they can stick it out in some cases for the I gotta start with applications because just to in are much of a [TS]
01:18:36 ◼ ► and forget I think the gist of their own sync service because I can handle. I Cloud thing. [TS]
01:18:44 ◼ ► The fact is like the mac app store has been a. I think a colossal failure I mean it's not a level of ping. But. [TS]
01:18:55 ◼ ► and just like how much people are using at these days how relevant that is how much it is really not at all the future [TS]
01:19:02 ◼ ► of app deployment and sales on the Mac. I mean. Again it's not about is paying but I don't like it's that far off. [TS]
01:19:13 ◼ ► And it seems like it seems like there are lots of forces within Apple and you know some of it just like inertia. [TS]
01:19:23 ◼ ► but it just seems like whatever forces got it to that state where it's a now where Apple just tried to rule with such [TS]
01:19:32 ◼ ► an iron fist especially with sandboxing coming in after the fact which really hurt things. [TS]
01:19:37 ◼ ► You know just really was such an iron fist there that everyone really just left. And like now as a consumer. [TS]
01:19:47 ◼ ► when it first came out a used to buy as many things there as I could because then I wouldn't have to deal with serial [TS]
01:19:52 ◼ ► numbers or anything I knew I could install it like on my laptop at my desktop and I wouldn't give me crap. [TS]
01:19:58 ◼ ► But what has happened since then is enough. Big apps have left it. That. Now I'm afraid to buy anything there. [TS]
01:20:06 ◼ ► Now if something is available in or out of the app store I'll bite out of the after by default now. [TS]
01:20:11 ◼ ► So like I feel like I've been typing a lot of people like a soon as it happens to you once for like an app you bought [TS]
01:20:17 ◼ ► in the App Store then leave the App Store I think as soon as it happens to you once. You're very likely to to switch. [TS]
01:20:22 ◼ ► In that way the way I did you know there's still a barrier though to buying outside the house [TS]
01:20:29 ◼ ► Everyone loved I was out it's are like you just click click Are you got a thing like a special because Sony go of i [TS]
01:20:34 ◼ ► Tunes accounts like credit card is already there like the benefits are there for regular people it's a luxury that we [TS]
01:20:45 ◼ ► and by the way same of the chat room one of the coda to with the one I was thinking of is out of the mag out there what [TS]
01:20:55 ◼ ► but are all of them ready to go to know which website to go to and know how to buy it online [TS]
01:21:07 ◼ ► but for people who are sort of came into computers in the in the i OS app store age. [TS]
01:21:12 ◼ ► There used to just going someplace and clicking a thing and getting the application [TS]
01:21:15 ◼ ► and just having it there like the those benefits are still there and you mention like them. [TS]
01:21:25 ◼ ► So they wasn't that there really was an iron fist. They have the carrot on the stick right. And the stick. [TS]
01:21:33 ◼ ► Because bottom line you didn't have to buy through the mag outsmart you can get your stuff so the stick is barely there [TS]
01:21:41 ◼ ► and I kept store as evidenced by all the people living it right. And the carrot. Was kind of a rotten crappy care too. [TS]
01:21:50 ◼ ► And no real carrot for you like here's why you should be in the beginning it seem like there was a carrot hey people [TS]
01:21:54 ◼ ► are excited by the mac app store I got to be there to get the sales but as a kind of fizzled. [TS]
01:21:58 ◼ ► Carrot is looking less appealing. And like the basically is no stick. Like even regular people. [TS]
01:22:15 ◼ ► and before the mac out starting to send people made money selling software for the mac somehow that it wasn't a mass [TS]
01:22:22 ◼ ► It wasn't something that everybody did you know the number of people who were on Macs [TS]
01:22:28 ◼ ► I was devices and install ops is everyone's got an IRA So I says tapping on that upstart installing something right. [TS]
01:22:36 ◼ ► But it was still a viable business so it seems like we're slowly reverting to that where the knockout store is filled [TS]
01:22:41 ◼ ► with the few apps that can now can still fit within its guidelines. And again. Code and panic. [TS]
01:22:48 ◼ ► When Panic can't get their app on your thing like they're like the most conscientious like made in Apple's image all [TS]
01:22:59 ◼ ► and they struggle with a really long time of sandboxing with their application trying to make a go of it working [TS]
01:23:08 ◼ ► What hope is there for anybody else because their code is not like a you know an application is injecting code into the [TS]
01:23:15 ◼ ► Finder to put badges and icons like. It's an ID for web developer for crying out loud. [TS]
01:23:20 ◼ ► And you can't have that does that outside their own with things you can have a knack now. X. [TS]
01:23:27 ◼ ► That's the best thing like you know Apple can put stuff on the I got started whatever the hell wants to tell the rules [TS]
01:23:31 ◼ ► don't apply to Apple which is part of the problem I mean that's part of both app stores [TS]
01:23:35 ◼ ► but especially the mac One is that they don't dog food. Most of these things so it's really it's disaster. [TS]
01:23:43 ◼ ► Disincentive eyes from buying things there that are out that are available elsewhere. [TS]
01:23:47 ◼ ► But in recent times I don't even look there anymore. Because so many great apps are not available there. [TS]
01:23:57 ◼ ► Before you can develop a pattern of you know I now have now I have to look in the App Store and out of the App Store. [TS]
01:24:04 ◼ ► and you can see this is everything available for the platform for the mac. It was never that way but it. [TS]
01:24:08 ◼ ► When it was when it started you could tell it. It's going to sway and there was more stuff there it seemed like.. [TS]
01:24:18 ◼ ► and then also to do web search I also have to find it's like you know like the bad old days [TS]
01:24:22 ◼ ► when you just like didn't have one place to look like it was again the status is something that should be an advantage [TS]
01:24:27 ◼ ► and this is just not an opposite not enough of a carrot like that's why people were in the beginning well I'll be fine [TS]
01:24:32 ◼ ► double people don't even know that a website exist like people know where to even start to get mac outs [TS]
01:24:36 ◼ ► or to get Macsoftware But hey here's a place to start for the top of the Apple menu let me just go there and I think. [TS]
01:24:51 ◼ ► Like that's a natural thing to think if you are someone who like came to the mac from I.O.'s or whatever. [TS]
01:24:55 ◼ ► Oh I guess these are all things I can get for the mac. Maybe someone might have heard of Photoshop ago. [TS]
01:25:00 ◼ ► There's Photoshop is not I've heard of that is not not that I guess they have casual people wouldn't buy far shop is an [TS]
01:25:05 ◼ ► expensive application but or I guess Microsoft Office two is on the backups or forget. I think it might be actually. [TS]
01:25:20 ◼ ► If you get a mac and and think that the stuff on the mac apps store is the extent of what you can do with a mac. [TS]
01:25:26 ◼ ► Like you just missing out on too much stuff. You know is Dropbox my caps or maybe it is now they have the. [TS]
01:25:37 ◼ ► That Dropbox can be in the magazine are going to inject the code into the finder. Not going to when I got Starr. [TS]
01:25:45 ◼ ► and I couldn't find Dropbox is that not a thing on the mac like because I heard my friends talk about it [TS]
01:25:49 ◼ ► and they said I should get it but I don't see it anywhere and like. First of all. Little aside here. [TS]
01:26:01 ◼ ► when the editor integration the fight the finder negotiation with the country points they don't inject code. [TS]
01:26:06 ◼ ► It's buggy as hell. It's so buggy. Icon and I read about this in a bunch people so they say the same thing. [TS]
01:26:20 ◼ ► or audio file be up to uplift updated. And it in Finder in Finder windows. It will lose its bad. [TS]
01:26:28 ◼ ► And will be the old filename. Not the new one. So a basically a ghost file. Filename will appear to be there. [TS]
01:26:39 ◼ ► and it will still show an old filed a new file won't show up until you relaunch finder which case it'll be fixed for [TS]
01:26:50 ◼ ► Old Dropbox never had that problem like this is getting of things like they are high ground anyway. [TS]
01:27:02 ◼ ► and the complications that become popular that do that necessarily have to be the ones written by people who really [TS]
01:27:09 ◼ ► know the ins and outs not again on that I'm recommending that it is a crazy practice or whatever but how did X. [TS]
01:27:16 ◼ ► Unsanity this company making these products that just like did terrible things to your system how does that work at all. [TS]
01:27:22 ◼ ► How did they ever become popular is because the people who made them were able to find ways to do them that what they [TS]
01:27:28 ◼ ► would actually work for a large number of people what is incredibly hard is not a scalable way to development [TS]
01:27:32 ◼ ► but it kind of weeds out all the people who wanted to find hacking away who does have who didn't know every little [TS]
01:27:37 ◼ ► Because they were just crash your system and you would never hear and so the people who did Dropbox [TS]
01:27:41 ◼ ► but I think it was a presentation on this one to her ROIC efforts to figure out how to safely patch on it which is a [TS]
01:27:51 ◼ ► Whereas now you're cooperating with Apple and Apple finder team on will make this A.P.I. [TS]
01:27:56 ◼ ► and You can use it and you know what it's like with Apple I be the first release that it's out [TS]
01:28:00 ◼ ► and there are bugs it doesn't work right or whatever you're hoping the next year will fix the bugs and like you know [TS]
01:28:09 ◼ ► but maybe not maybe not a big priority for them so I don't know what kind of hope there is for this getting less buggy [TS]
01:28:18 ◼ ► but I have seen situations where I like what I get usually it's like the badges don't appear on like doesn't have [TS]
01:28:29 ◼ ► and then like in the context menus the same thing like that I think it was officially before anyway. [TS]
01:28:34 ◼ ► Realtime files and a chat room Dropbox is not in the mag out story did a search for Dropbox knockout store [TS]
01:28:39 ◼ ► and get a screen full of results and say things like app driver Dropbox app for Dropbox box menu. [TS]
01:28:46 ◼ ► Drop for Dropbox drag share for Dropbox app for Dropbox for Dropbox instant out for Dropbox plus swift drop for Dropbox. [TS]
01:28:53 ◼ ► Anyway. Search on the App Store and Apple's decision to let everything in but draw no distinction. [TS]
01:29:00 ◼ ► Like I don't even know what these things are but I fear for someone saying they want Dropbox. [TS]
01:29:08 ◼ ► I don't think there's any free others a couple free ones here and there drop light for Dropbox D.V.R. [TS]
01:29:17 ◼ ► Then I got stories where you get up occasions I've heard of a thing called Dropbox let me go find it. [TS]
01:29:25 ◼ ► Of but they certainly want to get Dropbox I can tell you that this is not here. And that's it that's exactly the thing. [TS]
01:29:29 ◼ ► It only takes a couple of times of searching for something that you know is out there [TS]
01:29:38 ◼ ► or you download have these because they all have obviously they'll have Drop Box icon. [TS]
01:29:45 ◼ ► or someone trying to redraw the dropbox like it's so bad after a search is all other. [TS]
01:29:56 ◼ ► and we should mention cracking berries recent post to on the USA Just so we can just get rid of the show not someone [TS]
01:30:05 ◼ ► Because one of the problems the back App Store and MAC development general is not only that there's all these. [TS]
01:30:11 ◼ ► You know policy issues and really with the iron fist and there floppy care and lack of stick. [TS]
01:30:22 ◼ ► and so much so many luxuries that i OS developers get a new feature that I was developers get from things like. [TS]
01:30:28 ◼ ► I Tunes connect i Cloud. A.P.I. Has so many of them. Don't come to the MAC at all or come very late to the mac. [TS]
01:30:35 ◼ ► And I cracked that damn ples of like test flight bills and some of that were just like this stuff is like and. [TS]
01:30:41 ◼ ► Usually it's promise from Agatha go Mechelle have it. Soon. I'm just hardly ever get there get there very later and. [TS]
01:30:48 ◼ ► Yeah I just obviously the mac. A.P.I. Wise development wise and Macs services for developers. [TS]
01:30:58 ◼ ► Incredibly high priority is Apple because if they were you know that's what Apple says I regard this of what we hear [TS]
01:31:05 ◼ ► You know hardworking people inside the company a world in the in the middle of the of the hierarchy somewhere. [TS]
01:31:10 ◼ ► Regardless of that you can just tell by their actions you can tell by the results. That this is you know. [TS]
01:31:15 ◼ ► This is not a priority I went to the parody I.O.'s has way more users brings in way more money is way more high profile [TS]
01:31:20 ◼ ► obviously that's that's a higher priority. And I can't really fault them for that but it's unfortunate as mac users. [TS]
01:31:25 ◼ ► And it's even more unfortunate if you're a mac developer. That you that you're really on what used to be. [TS]
01:31:31 ◼ ► The thing Apple cared so much about and now. It's clearly you know. Third or fourth priorities days.. [TS]
01:31:37 ◼ ► The one that hurts the most the for that is a thing where they disabled Aparicio use from beta versions of i O. S. [TS]
01:31:46 ◼ ► I don't want to say though that so easy to do with like they they dedicated the resources a do it [TS]
01:31:50 ◼ ► and i OS that feels like the type of thing just to save face you like can we do that for the one who has to. [TS]
01:31:58 ◼ ► Maybe they will do it eventually maybe it takes longer to patch the mac asked our application maybe there's no one [TS]
01:32:05 ◼ ► but the that one really hurts because like ever and so excited any people can really. [TS]
01:32:09 ◼ ► Never mind this kind of like a little too little too late because already betas are in people's hands they are writing [TS]
01:32:15 ◼ ► Not from accusers so you don't even get that you don't even get what you think is probably like the lowest effort type [TS]
01:32:24 ◼ ► and some respects like the great talking very thing is coming out from the perspective of a MAC developer [TS]
01:32:29 ◼ ► and as people voice said like Apple cares about Apple first user seconds developers. Third or later. [TS]
01:32:35 ◼ ► It's a reasonable prioritization So it's like a lot of times developers want things from Apple that Apple doesn't give [TS]
01:32:40 ◼ ► them because of because they think it's more important for users to have something of rabble to have something. [TS]
01:32:50 ◼ ► or developing for Apple's second most popular press from. And it's a hell of a drop off. Congo second most popular. [TS]
01:32:58 ◼ ► and suddenly the watch becomes a second most popular one then your then your developing for the third most popular. [TS]
01:33:07 ◼ ► But that's another show and either way remember just a couple years ago. Years ago we came back to the mac. [TS]
01:33:13 ◼ ► So things are fine don't worry about it. I mean I think they did do. Are doing better with A.P.I. [TS]
01:33:23 ◼ ► That didn't come out the same time in both but you can't when that happens it's like. [TS]
01:33:26 ◼ ► It's like a boost to the neck because like Oh I wouldn't expect that I would expect to be I was first in Mexico [TS]
01:33:34 ◼ ► but that's a user facing feature it's not a developer facing feature and. So yeah. [TS]
01:33:42 ◼ ► And I would not hold out any hope for improvement of the mac app store I mean like the beta thing you said like you [TS]
01:33:47 ◼ ► and like not allowing people to review from betas look just look at the State of the mac app store application itself. [TS]
01:33:55 ◼ ► Just try to use it for anything try to do anything and try to browse anything. Obviously doing anything to this app. [TS]
01:34:09 ◼ ► I don't there's a lot of people working on it though I think like the underlying frameworks probably of people working [TS]
01:34:14 ◼ ► on them like the things that you know again with tell you like you can run updates from the application then close the [TS]
01:34:33 ◼ ► But sort of the gooey skin the provides like the view into the store and all that. That seems. [TS]
01:34:41 ◼ ► Maybe the house on fixing the most egregious bugs or just seems like no one's working on it. [TS]
01:34:49 ◼ ► It has many of the same problems and challenges of i Tunes of of you know having this. Does a giant web service. [TS]
01:34:56 ◼ ► Rendering what's basically a big web you in the app. Is it went to you or is it like X.M.L. [TS]
01:35:00 ◼ ► Like of the i Tunes stories to be number one i Tunes store is like custom mikes on the Hell. [TS]
01:35:09 ◼ ► One of the things they bought try us like chomp or whatever like a thing or the money remitted regular app store. [TS]
01:35:15 ◼ ► when they made the search suck even more by having those big cards at all you see want to put a time on screen that was [TS]
01:35:20 ◼ ► and I know why we should be trying to guess what the underlying technologies are who cares we just know the end result [TS]
01:35:24 ◼ ► is an application that does weird things and sometimes the only solution is like closer to relaunch [TS]
01:35:28 ◼ ► or to restart your McAnuff like good. Thanks a lot for three sponsor of this week. Igloo Squarespace and need. [TS]
01:35:35 ◼ ► And we will see you next week. Now the show is over. They didn't even mean to be good because it was accidental. [TS]
01:35:47 ◼ ► The was accidental. John didn't feel any team are going to be seen with him. Because it was accidental. [TS]
01:35:58 ◼ ► It was accidental. And she was going on today. And it's clear that he was no set so that's keep lists and the N.T. [TS]
01:36:20 ◼ ► Markel. Ahmed Maher let's take the risk. She says. I joined a gym. You joined a gym. I joined a gym. [TS]
01:36:45 ◼ ► What are you going to do with the gym. Can lift heavy things. I haven't done that yet. I probably won't. [TS]
01:36:54 ◼ ► I haven't done that yet I have walked really fast in place though does that count. [TS]
01:36:58 ◼ ► Lay out like a hamster that's not in a hurry. Yeah yeah. Like a hamster who's living readings i Phone. [TS]
01:37:06 ◼ ► What I mean I wear shirts there and I wear them home I'd like to shirts and. It's got a I'm sure you have a shorts. [TS]
01:37:14 ◼ ► In the summertime Yes I do wear shorts because it's easy it's way too hot for bands in the summertime. [TS]
01:37:18 ◼ ► And I don't like sure I really hate shorts honestly. But. But I own shorts because I live somewhere with the summer. [TS]
01:37:24 ◼ ► That's a season you do have Casey. Yup. So you doing this to fill your circles. I am. Yeah. I mean that you know I. [TS]
01:37:30 ◼ ► Would like to generally stay healthy you know but. But yes a sense of a really is are for the circles. [TS]
01:37:35 ◼ ► So that also those circling in the gym. Are you like you're dropping pounds. Some. Yeah I'm down. [TS]
01:37:42 ◼ ► I don't know like six pounds and for like two months or something I don't know if I'm down some. [TS]
01:37:51 ◼ ► but the apple is the Apple Watch versus blue apron blue prints fine no blue apron is actually great because it's pretty [TS]
01:38:00 ◼ ► It's ever since we started that it's been actually easier to to be healthy and lose weight because it is so. [TS]
01:38:11 ◼ ► Even if you add more oil than they tell you to because you have to add more oil may tell you to give the amount they [TS]
01:38:18 ◼ ► Even if you add more oil and I tell you to you're still under a thousand calories for dinner. And that's pretty good. [TS]
01:38:22 ◼ ► So anyway. Yeah I mean. I joined a gym because I live in an area with a great variety of weather. [TS]
01:38:31 ◼ ► And a good portion of that weather is not that pleasant to be walking very quickly for three miles outside. [TS]
01:38:38 ◼ ► So I joined earlier this week when it was like ninety degrees. And so one day in a billion percent humidity and. [TS]
01:38:48 ◼ ► I joined a ring that day and it's like ten bucks a month for. What's basically the worst gym in the world. [TS]
01:38:56 ◼ ► And that's means I don't have to buy a treadmill and put it in the house anywhere. [TS]
01:39:01 ◼ ► and some people watching the on the varieties of people that show up at the gym. In my to visit to the gym so far. [TS]
01:39:11 ◼ ► And I go at weird times when everyone else is working. So it's. I go when it's almost empty. [TS]
01:39:18 ◼ ► So I've seen a handful of people and I just kind of look straight ahead and look at my watch my phone stuff [TS]
01:39:24 ◼ ► and you're watching video on your i Phone You're reading things you're listening to podcasts. [TS]
01:39:27 ◼ ► I haven't quite figured this out yet. The first the first I've only gone twice this is this week. And it's been nice. [TS]
01:39:42 ◼ ► I'm fine to impact us when I walk outside because like visually I mean used by the outside world. [TS]
01:39:51 ◼ ► That you're not listening to go into pod cast kind of boring. So the last time I went I did I watched. [TS]
01:40:03 ◼ ► and that was that was an hour long that was perfect so maybe this might actually be a good time to watch conference [TS]
01:40:06 ◼ ► talks and do other things that are that have a visual component to good use of E.R. Goggles. [TS]
01:40:18 ◼ ► Does the thing where you have like vertigo after you get off does that ever go away. What. [TS]
01:40:23 ◼ ► I can't say that I got that one. Yeah. Maybe just getting light headed because it's only your second day of the gym. [TS]
01:40:33 ◼ ► and not paying attention what's going on around Yeah maybe you're getting motion sick. [TS]
01:40:37 ◼ ► Well yeah it's like when I'm on it I'm fine but then if I stop and I've tried like slowing down gradually. But. [TS]
01:40:46 ◼ ► I feel like I've gotten off a boat you're like who will you know like I feel if I don't feel great for a few minutes [TS]
01:40:55 ◼ ► I mean it's you like the form of motion sickness where it's people chatter saying you get used to it. [TS]
01:41:03 ◼ ► It's like it's I don't know what that maybe that is a common thing if you're less Peshitta like the difference in like [TS]
01:41:09 ◼ ► Across the room I think is a big difference in terms of like where you're where you're focusing. Well it's. [TS]
01:41:17 ◼ ► and I've tried looking at the ceiling looking across the room like I've tried of other things about it doesn't doesn't [TS]
01:41:25 ◼ ► I'm running so my body thinks I'm moving forward so it or my brain to move forward. [TS]
01:41:35 ◼ ► And then it's like has like switch back to the uncommented or mode and I think that's what causes that. [TS]
01:41:44 ◼ ► You could be moving through a farce the virtual farce while a virtual scream floats in front of you so you watch Nevins [TS]
01:41:53 ◼ ► I could do that or I could just like use the bikes and ellipticals instead. I don't know. [TS]
01:41:57 ◼ ► Are you just walk outside I'm amazed that you face humanity so much that you rather walk in like people usually go to [TS]
01:42:01 ◼ ► the gym like in the winter when you know it's freezing outside. Well and that's I knew like you know. [TS]
01:42:08 ◼ ► When it was really beautiful outside and it's been pretty beautiful since then but I've known like. [TS]
01:42:15 ◼ ► And I'm going to like I want to keep this up in the winter and winter here is pretty bad not as bad as you but. [TS]
01:42:20 ◼ ► But pretty bad and. And so I wanted to have some kind of option. And listen to like you know. [TS]
01:42:26 ◼ ► Should I get a treadmill in my house and. It seems like there's almost no reason for a regular person to do that. [TS]
01:42:33 ◼ ► There's like the the. The pros and cons you need some place to hang laundry. Yeah. Well. It ends up there huge like. [TS]
01:42:40 ◼ ► I know the giant turns out all my god like when you're when they're in a gym you don't really realize it but like. [TS]
01:42:45 ◼ ► When he when you like tape out measurements in your house or how big a treadmill actually is. [TS]
01:42:48 ◼ ► Oh my God they're they're massive. And not just a room how much room it takes up but especially for the ones that like. [TS]
01:42:53 ◼ ► If they're like a stair thing or whatever like how much room you need around them for yeah. [TS]
01:42:57 ◼ ► Swinging body parts and getting on and getting off and then the thing has moved on a cell. [TS]
01:43:01 ◼ ► Yeah for the winter activity maybe you have almost the makings Well maybe not for you maybe for Adam. [TS]
01:43:11 ◼ ► You could have the makings of a kind of like a dog sled team you just need to be like maybe they can pull Adam. [TS]
01:43:16 ◼ ► If you just get four of them instead of three then it would be even though be adorable. Oh my goodness. [TS]
01:43:24 ◼ ► If now that I put that idea into your head I want to his and pictures of that will work it out. [TS]
01:43:30 ◼ ► Give me one thing that breed of dog does well is pull in the same direction. Right. And you can run and five different. [TS]
01:43:41 ◼ ► Yeah you can exercise outside in the winter people do it speaks big number of them have a polka sense is out there with [TS]
01:43:47 ◼ ► his bare feet in twenty degree below weather that Paulk a fox is not a fair comparison he's like a super human. [TS]
01:43:53 ◼ ► That is not it is not fair to hold me up to his standard at all not even close. I just I cannot believe. [TS]
01:43:59 ◼ ► Like when you saw the watch announcement was the first thing that popped in your head. Darn it I'm going to join a gym. [TS]
01:44:05 ◼ ► Not even close right. How did we get from A to B. Here doesn't have the antibodies. It was infected. You're right. [TS]
01:44:20 ◼ ► And I was concerned that would be uncomfortable pressing into my skin so I even have said in the past that before it [TS]
01:44:25 ◼ ► before I got it as a you know if they just made a model that lacked all the fitness features [TS]
01:44:29 ◼ ► and lack that big bubble on the bottom. I'd buy that instead to be more comfortable. And yet now. [TS]
01:44:39 ◼ ► and how little I care about the circle her really wished I was more like I really I would like maybe you. [TS]
01:44:43 ◼ ► Maybe you'll know it's got Mark was going to do it maybe you know you know I haven't done anything like this in a while [TS]
01:44:54 ◼ ► Maybe that would help like that apples really have that integration you have to use like some third party out that you [TS]
01:44:59 ◼ ► strike a underscores that's a pedometer plus lots of authority there like a competition maybe that actually would help [TS]
01:45:06 ◼ ► But one of the problems also is that even a watch kit to a lot of the data for the for the circles like. [TS]
01:45:21 ◼ ► The stuck out of the Not that you see like a machine in Montero like competing for their just with their Fit Bit step [TS]
01:45:31 ◼ ► I think that like my company that does motivate a lot of people maybe I don't like I want to determine what circles. [TS]
01:45:36 ◼ ► When it tells me to get up I do feel a little bit of the old like oh I should probably get up and go for a walk now [TS]
01:45:40 ◼ ► or never. But the bottom line is I'm not feeling of like and. My my whatever devalue of all my circles around it's low. [TS]
01:45:51 ◼ ► But my daily schedule just does not do enough to fill them at least one my watch them so I tend if I want to go home [TS]
01:45:57 ◼ ► for Mark I want to take my watch off just because I just want to get stuff off my body and then try to totally naked. [TS]
01:46:15 ◼ ► And so that means anything I do after that I like walking around with the kids or whatever is going to not count. [TS]
01:46:20 ◼ ► But I don't care what are you do you tell you care you care just enough to be annoying to yourself. [TS]
01:46:30 ◼ ► When I don't feel them actually you're going to be perpetually mildly annoyed by this it doesn't bother me that much. [TS]
01:46:51 ◼ ► I have never actually initiated like a workout workouts all my green feeling as I get into dental from heart rate stuff. [TS]
01:46:57 ◼ ► and I don't even know how that works like whatever. But I'm just never feeling it. Except for double their E.C. [TS]
01:47:05 ◼ ► To completely change pace house party training going. It's going actually OK good. Yeah it's. [TS]
01:47:11 ◼ ► It's not complete but it's going to be going to day care what it is a reinforcing of their. [TS]
01:47:18 ◼ ► Yes So he goes to preschool and. He's going out to summer camp. Which is just school in the summertime. [TS]
01:47:24 ◼ ► We were able to do this transition with their support and they do it all the time because they have school for two [TS]
01:47:29 ◼ ► and three year old so they have seen lots of potty training and their time in their experts at it so they support it [TS]
01:47:36 ◼ ► and they you know they. You know they do it while he's there so it's good. We're all good. [TS]
01:47:40 ◼ ► They doing any positive feedback stuff like sticker charts or anything like that like either at home [TS]
01:47:44 ◼ ► or at school to try to like reward for for compliance basically sticker I did I had not thought of a stick retard [TS]
01:47:55 ◼ ► and like doesn't work as I'm concerned ever but I just have a piece of paper and like every time you do it. [TS]
01:48:02 ◼ ► and some kids aren't I just didn't know if that was one of the things that you are doing. [TS]
01:48:07 ◼ ► Now we are doing like food motivation. Candy and cookies is the. We very quickly learned that you can't reward. [TS]
01:48:17 ◼ ► Going to the bathroom you have to reward like timespans in which you have a had no accidents. [TS]
01:48:23 ◼ ► Because if you reward going to the bathroom then. He just wants to go every five minutes. [TS]
01:48:30 ◼ ► So to go back a step you've basically outsourced potty training to the Summer camp is what I'm hearing. [TS]
01:48:36 ◼ ► Well he's there for like two and a half hours a day and it's not like camp is a very you know. [TS]
01:48:42 ◼ ► It's technically called Camp. That's a very generous word for what it really is. It's just preschool in the summertime. [TS]
01:48:48 ◼ ► And it's mostly outside. And that's that's basically it. And preschool as you will learn soon Casey is really short. [TS]
01:48:56 ◼ ► Every day. Like it goes. That two and a half hours goes by very quickly. So I don't doubt it. Yeah. It's been a wild. [TS]
01:49:04 ◼ ► Couple of weeks that the. Sort of kind of able to crawl. Issue. To pretty adept at crawling and. [TS]
01:49:16 ◼ ► He used to up until this point. Barrel Roll. Pretty effectively. To a barrel roll. [TS]
01:49:28 ◼ ► And then he'd figured out how to crawl in our world is upside down because he doesn't just stay still anymore. [TS]
01:49:34 ◼ ► And kind of petrifying and additionally He's also starting to pull up onto his feet which is adorable to watch [TS]
01:49:58 ◼ ► My favorite picture of Declan recently was showing him. Next to your computer with a note that. [TS]
01:50:08 ◼ ► It had been like fifteen seconds and he crawled over there ripped off a key. It's the great. [TS]
01:50:18 ◼ ► or destroy our crap like the second that kid can move it's like I'm going to destroy your crap you that's pretty much [TS]
01:50:26 ◼ ► And I get my little baby finger now learned to ski Kaplan he comes off this is awesome. [TS]
01:50:36 ◼ ► or guy just you to your credit you're not one of the BE ABLE who who would look down and other people [TS]
01:50:41 ◼ ► and said well my child won't destroy my stuff all just make sure they don't touch my things. [TS]
01:50:45 ◼ ► Thank the reason baby proofing of the word. Well. So I'm not like that about most things. [TS]
01:50:58 ◼ ► I will not allow my car to get ruined if that means no food in the car straight no food in the car. [TS]
01:51:02 ◼ ► Is there a car seat installed in your car now. Yes. So there's been for a while. So isn't it. Destroying your seeds. [TS]
01:51:11 ◼ ► I've I've had similar good luck I mean you know we we also like there just by policy there's no food in the car. [TS]
01:51:17 ◼ ► Like just and that's been fine. You know we also have a policy that you don't take my seat. And so far. [TS]
01:51:24 ◼ ► I mean he's sometimes forget think he's pretty soon you will. But so far. Overall it's pretty good. [TS]
01:51:31 ◼ ► You don't have to rethink the seat kicking I don't really depends on your kid I think you can pull the seeking thing my [TS]
01:51:36 ◼ ► kids. Not really. But the thing and they were the last of their pretty long time and it would last forever. [TS]
01:51:41 ◼ ► Is that I told them that the seats have airbags in them which is true. And that are breaking an explosive. [TS]
01:51:47 ◼ ► Which is true. And that if you pick the seeds you called to explode which is not true but they don't know that. [TS]
01:51:53 ◼ ► That's amazing actually. I don't think I ever did I don't think I ever actually told them they cause I would say. [TS]
01:51:57 ◼ ► The seats of our bags in the mare banks of explosives I think that's all I would say and I would say in an alarm voice. [TS]
01:52:03 ◼ ► There were a lot until they were like you know what these things are never exploding kick kick out as a good boy you'll [TS]
01:52:15 ◼ ► I can't tell but I think you can trouble Casey I can't wait to see Casey just go through all this because like. [TS]
01:52:20 ◼ ► It's not like I'm any expert on it but just just by being like two years ahead of him bathe like. That's like. [TS]
01:52:28 ◼ ► Like seeing that he's like you know you're going through like the beginning of mobility. Which is as you said. [TS]
01:52:38 ◼ ► What's what's great about parenting is that every time you think you have the current stage down pat. [TS]
01:52:45 ◼ ► Oh yeah everything then changes with the next day. It's like. So like yeah you know we finally got him to. [TS]
01:52:51 ◼ ► You know eat and sleep. Oh my God. Now he's moving. Oh God Now you heard cell phone every possible thing. Yeah. [TS]
01:53:00 ◼ ► You know once you get that down then he's going to start learning how to open doors and go outside [TS]
01:53:06 ◼ ► and then I'll get some attitude. Yeah that if you get some attitude then. You know then eventually. [TS]
01:53:11 ◼ ► You have a thing down the nope. Delete the diapers. My god like every everything is like. [TS]
01:53:18 ◼ ► You know it's hard and then you've. Yeah. I've asked a lot of parents. Most of whom are. You know roughly my age. [TS]
01:53:39 ◼ ► Is don't get you stand anything because the moment you do it all changes. That's good. Yeah. John has front door. [TS]
01:53:46 ◼ ► Do you have a front door yet. They are offering a new one. So you have a front door in like three more months. [TS]
01:53:55 ◼ ► Hopefully though it will happen between the vacation I'm leaving on now in the vacation I'm leaving on after the some [TS]
01:54:03 ◼ ► time between that but anyway people have been painting. How is that going that well. [TS]
01:54:10 ◼ ► I don't know what I don't I have yet to find someone who does what I think is a good job of painting anything. [TS]
01:54:17 ◼ ► Like you know they just they just they just want to get to the point where they start slapping on the paint. [TS]
01:54:22 ◼ ► Like I want the surface to be smoothed out before you start slapping on the band to think about how it's going to look [TS]
01:54:28 ◼ ► when it's finished painting it's like Miller good my father. What we learned when we've only done both renovations. [TS]
01:54:36 ◼ ► You know to actually to can paint her and she looked like she her parents can paint like the whole room. You know. [TS]
01:54:42 ◼ ► No time at all. It turns out professional painters. Are really no better than good. You know home top painters just. [TS]
01:54:50 ◼ ► You don't have to do it. That's the big thing. Like you're not paying them to do a better job than you could do. [TS]
01:54:59 ◼ ► I continue to believe there must be contractors out there like the ones on ice and T.V. That do do a good job. [TS]
01:55:04 ◼ ► And especially with things like surface prep sometimes you can't do what they do because you don't have the tools to [TS]
01:55:08 ◼ ► the pens of the server like if you're painting a room like big walls or big and flat. [TS]
01:55:12 ◼ ► but if you're painting like the trim around a window where you just pulled all storm windows from the cities there wreck [TS]
01:55:16 ◼ ► you have to spend a lot of time and service from pulling off old caked on paint. Filling in voids. [TS]
01:55:30 ◼ ► Just a plain all random orbit sander with a little tiny Sanders to get into the corners [TS]
01:55:39 ◼ ► but like they don't I mean you could buy the tool at Home Depot for like thirty bucks if you need to do it given the [TS]
01:55:43 ◼ ► limited time yes I could but I would take the amount of time they took to do all my trim. [TS]
01:55:49 ◼ ► and they do on that one hundred open I would get one of mine that I would I be there like [TS]
01:55:52 ◼ ► and others like you know a good enough. You're not compelled to see it was a street paint paint paint. [TS]
01:55:57 ◼ ► Well exactly that's a thing they like you're not paying for them to be doing it for them to do a better job than you [TS]
01:56:01 ◼ ► could do. You're paying some to do it so that you don't have to do and they can do it faster. Anyway. Almost on. [TS]
01:56:09 ◼ ► I think the front row is going to the worst part though because there's a bunch of carpentry stuff around there [TS]
01:56:13 ◼ ► and it's just like that's been hand waved over and we just have like see our front door looks now. [TS]
01:56:26 ◼ ► but they look as well not exactly like what I mean but that's going to be bad. But anyway. [TS]
01:56:32 ◼ ► If there was ever a time that any human being should periscope anything. It's the. [TS]
01:56:44 ◼ ► and smiling from the other end of the conversation and then me going. Yeah just. They HATE YOU SO MUCH don't think. [TS]
01:56:51 ◼ ► I don't know I don't know if they mean I just I do you tip them. No place for certificate on tractors. [TS]
01:57:03 ◼ ► I we didn't have any of our contractors are we likely to keep only by bagels and suffer the guys that were working [TS]
01:57:09 ◼ ► but like. We wouldn't I mean. Yeah you're paying a lot for those like. I don't think is a tipping thing yeah. [TS]
01:57:14 ◼ ► Seriously. Tremendous amount of money. They can take their tip of the tremendous amount of money and pay. Yeah. [TS]
01:57:23 ◼ ► I don't think that's really an apples to apples comparison. But that's about the same out of money. I don't. [TS]
01:57:28 ◼ ► I have full I fully confess that I have no idea when it's appropriate to tip but I also hate tipping as a concept. [TS]
01:57:45 ◼ ► What I never tip in a hotel ever ask you think that that's what the how much is that [TS]
01:57:50 ◼ ► when I googled for there were like a couple bucks a day. And that's what I've been sticking to. [TS]
01:57:55 ◼ ► and then the problem is the need like you need small bills that lets you know the little envelopes on the desk. [TS]
01:57:59 ◼ ► It's That's that's for housekeeping tips like the most hotel rooms is like there's a small envelope. [TS]
01:58:06 ◼ ► And that is that is for you to put the housekeeping to things if you sleeve cash around. [TS]
01:58:13 ◼ ► You can you want to leave it in and even if you don't you download you just want to leave with a note. [TS]
01:58:18 ◼ ► The you know for housekeeping or thank you or something in a way that they know that you didn't X. [TS]
01:58:22 ◼ ► and I leave it because housekeeping people don't want to take random cash lying around with ANY like a housekeeping [TS]
01:58:26 ◼ ► stole from a bike when you're checking out takes a lot of cash. Couple bucks a day or whatever. Put it so. [TS]
01:58:35 ◼ ► You know I don't think I've ever done that my entire life yeah it's a big pain as you either have to have like you know. [TS]
01:58:40 ◼ ► Let's hear doing a few bucks a day or five bucks a there's a whole bunch of fives. When you get there or. [TS]
01:58:47 ◼ ► but then like that could be a different person than who work the last few days the. [TS]
01:58:51 ◼ ► I just do it all the end I don't do it every day. Because I just too much of a hassle like that in my googling. [TS]
01:59:00 ◼ ► It evens out in the end for the people who work there like you're right it might not be the same person or whatever [TS]
01:59:11 ◼ ► That's good because it usually obviously put a twenty on there than the last day and then the called Call day [TS]
01:59:15 ◼ ► but this is lunacy to me I've never heard this for say the tipping is crazy I hated the passion I think we just they [TS]
01:59:22 ◼ ► just raise the prices for everything and pay people living wages and so on and so do you tip barbers. [TS]
01:59:27 ◼ ► Yes I do you know. The I do too and. So it was a dilemma so my barber you know usually. I only have twenty's. [TS]
01:59:34 ◼ ► Because that's what I am the give out and. Whenever I have a small bill that hits. [TS]
01:59:40 ◼ ► They collect somewhere on my desk and I forgot to put them back in the next morning. [TS]
01:59:48 ◼ ► You should be a type of person who only has a fifty is like a grandpa. So at the barber. [TS]
01:59:56 ◼ ► These to turn sixteen dollars for a haircut so I give them twenty. They keep the extra for perfect. [TS]
02:00:01 ◼ ► The neighbor has the price of seventeen dollars. Now I don't want to just give him twenty again because now it's like. [TS]
02:00:08 ◼ ► Right right so now I have to remember to bring a single now every time so I give you a change of you given to twenty [TS]
02:00:14 ◼ ► the give you change. I'm not that stocks that such a half a market. Three dollars on seventeen that's fission tip. [TS]
02:00:20 ◼ ► But but it's like. It's like there. It's like they took they took a pay cut. Well it's not your fault. [TS]
02:00:25 ◼ ► Kind of dog is it doesn't want to have a single of them like just given to do anything given change it's find I don't [TS]
02:00:37 ◼ ► Why did you give give them a twenty dollar bill and one silver dollar like a grandma. That would grip. [TS]
02:00:43 ◼ ► Do those still exist be still get those I want to got I'm still in circulation somewhere. Give a two dollar bill. [TS]
02:00:50 ◼ ► I lost the titles. Floppy care and lack of stick. It's amazing when they're better when I think. [TS]
02:01:10 ◼ ► And I just want people to listen they have waiting for black holes bullring start it all away at the end that it has [TS]