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ATP

603: Too Smart to Move

 

00:00:00   Jon is hacking up a lung over it. Yeah, Jon is very unwell, and I didn't find this out,

00:00:05   or we didn't find this out until, I don't know, two minutes ago? So if this episode

00:00:10   is only 15 minutes long, it's because we're taking pity on our good friend. And if it's

00:00:14   hugely long, then it's like every time I feel unwell, so we'll see what happens. It is September,

00:00:22   which means it's Childhood Cancer Awareness Month. I feel like I didn't pronounce any

00:00:26   of that with all the letters and the words, but here we go. We're doing it live. So I'm

00:00:30   going to vamp while I pull up the official ad read and tell you that, hey, there are

00:00:34   a lot of children that are unwell, and that's not okay. And a lot of them have some flavor

00:00:40   of cancer, and that is also not okay. And so we are part of Relay, and we're also partnering

00:00:46   with Relay. We're partnering with ourselves. I don't know. Just go with it. So we, Relay,

00:00:51   have raised over $3 million over the last five years, starting in 2019. It's bananas.

00:01:00   It's absolutely bananas. And because of that, Relay is going to have their name put on like

00:01:04   this, it's more than a plaque, but put on like this board in the St. Jude campus for

00:01:10   all the corporate and personal donators that have done, just gone above and beyond. And

00:01:14   that's super incredibly cool. And so what we are doing is we're trying to raise money

00:01:19   for St. Jude Children's Research Hospital. St. Jude does incredible, phenomenal work,

00:01:24   and they do it in such a way that it affects people all over the world. So St. Jude is

00:01:28   headquartered in Memphis, Tennessee. I will be there in a couple of weeks when Relay does

00:01:32   their 12-hour podcast-a-thon. You can watch me melt into a puddle over the course of those

00:01:37   12 hours as I do everything I can to raise more money for these six children. But here's

00:01:43   the thing. St. Jude has treated children from all 50 states and around the world. 90% of

00:01:49   the children at risk of developing cancer live in low and middle income countries. That

00:01:53   is unacceptable to St. Jude, and you know what? It's unacceptable to us. So that's why

00:01:57   St. Jude launched St. Jude Global. That way every child with cancer, no matter where they

00:02:03   live, and also other catastrophic diseases, by the way, they have access to quality care

00:02:07   and treatment. So when I was at St. Jude in April for the Play Live Summit, they brought

00:02:13   several different people on stage. Some of them were survivors in St. Jude patients,

00:02:17   some of them were family members. And the number of stories that we saw, but actually

00:02:22   not just on stage, but just in general with the people we met, the number of stories we

00:02:26   saw where it was something along the lines of, "I am in some foreign country. I have

00:02:31   done everything that my country knows how to do with regard to either my cancer, my

00:02:36   child's cancer, or my brother's cancer." And we were at wits end. I mean, we were basically

00:02:41   given a death sentence. And then somebody thought, "You know, let's call St. Jude. Let's

00:02:45   see what happens." And the number of stories that, you know, there's all these different

00:02:50   ways these stories started that somehow or another involved really dire circumstances,

00:02:54   but every single one of them ended with, "We called St. Jude and within hours, within hours,

00:03:01   we had plane tickets to go to Memphis, Tennessee, and they didn't have to pay for it at all

00:03:05   because St. Jude pays for it all." So in order for St. Jude to pay for all these things,

00:03:10   we ask for you to donate whatever you can and actually live on air in just a minute,

00:03:15   we will have my favorite and least favorite moment of the year when I somehow ruin my

00:03:20   donation and it becomes a joke for the next year. So we're going to do that in a minute.

00:03:24   But hey, there's one other reason you might want to donate or one other excuse perhaps

00:03:28   to donate, one other just a justification for donation. And I like to call it the Marco

00:03:33   offset. Marco, can you tell me what the offset is, please?

00:03:35   Yes, starting probably next week. Many of you out there are going to be buying new Apple

00:03:41   products. You might have even bought some other things recently, possibly the new Android

00:03:45   folding things, maybe I saw there was a new remarkable tablet today that looks really

00:03:49   cool, all sorts of fun gadgets launching in this gadget season. And you probably don't

00:03:56   necessarily need to spend money on new gadgets. Maybe you got something broken that needs

00:04:00   to be replaced, but for the most part, we all know that this is like, these are mostly

00:04:04   luxuries that we have because we're very fortunate to be able to afford nice electronics for

00:04:09   many of us listening to this podcast. Now, when you buy your nice electronics that you

00:04:14   don't really maybe need, but you're buying because you want to treat and they're fun

00:04:18   and they're awesome, you tend to purchase other things at the same time, things like

00:04:22   a case or additional storage upgrades or a keyboard or some other kind of accessory for

00:04:29   the thing that you're buying. You even also do things like Apple care, warranty services

00:04:34   or you certainly almost always in most places you have to pay sales tax. So you have all

00:04:39   these kind of add-on fees and upgrades and accessories and taxes to the thing you are

00:04:44   buying. I suggest when thinking about what your minimum donation to St. Jude should be,

00:04:49   add up all those extras that you tack on to your purchase or purchases, including all

00:04:54   the taxes, all the storage upgrades, all the accessories and cases and warranties and all

00:04:59   that stuff, add up all that. That should be your target minimum donation to St. Jude if

00:05:04   you can swing it. And fortunately for us and for most of you out there, many of you out

00:05:08   there are able to swing it and that's great. And this is how you can assuage some of your

00:05:13   guilt about these new tech products that you're buying by giving a nice chunk of money if

00:05:17   you can to St. Jude.

00:05:19   Yep. So here's the thing. When we rally for a common cause, we become more than a community.

00:05:23   We become beacons of hope for all. Yes, that is a little bit silly, but it's true. It's

00:05:29   not really true. So please join Relay and ATP and donate to St. Jude this September for

00:05:34   Childhood Cancer Awareness Month. You can go to stjude.org/ATP to just go straight to

00:05:39   the donation area, which is what we're about to do, the three of us. Or if you want more

00:05:43   information or if you perhaps want to start your own campaign, you can go to stjude.org/relay.

00:05:48   So S-T-J-U-D-E dot O-R-G slash A-T-P to just go straight to the donation. So now the three

00:05:55   of us are going to do our annual donations. And here's the thing. We always say we're

00:05:59   going to do the gentlemanly thing of agreeing on exactly how much we're going to donate.

00:06:04   And I believe as with past years, we had agreed on $7,000, but we could never do that because

00:06:09   we're all just difficult. So the question is, who is going to be the winner by donating

00:06:16   the most, but also sticking to the gentlemanly agreement of $7,000? So in past years, I should

00:06:23   look this up. In past years, I think I've done $7,001 or $7,001 and one cent. I feel

00:06:30   like that isn't enough, but I want to stick close to the $7,000. And so I am going to,

00:06:39   as we speak, I'm going to say payment details. I'm gonna see if I can Apple pay this and

00:06:43   I'm not going to tell you quite yet exactly what I am going to do. I have to add an address.

00:06:47   My mistake. You don't have to wait while I do that. But my thinking is that I need to

00:06:53   do just a little bit more. I'm hoping that's not a bad choice and I probably shouldn't

00:06:59   be telling you this while I'm on air because now Marco is probably just tripling his donation,

00:07:05   which honestly I'm okay with. I've already hit my button. I hit it while you were talking

00:07:08   already. So it's I'm in. Oh, all right. I should look, but I'm not going to. I promise

00:07:12   I'm not going to. I haven't looked yet. All right. I'm going, I'm hitting the Apple pay

00:07:15   button right now. Done. I donated $7,001 and 43 cents because one 43 is short for, I love

00:07:24   you one letter, four letters, three letters, and that's for Aaron. And so we lost it. It's

00:07:29   it's really you being mean to Aaron is what's going on. So let's see how we do. You definitely

00:07:34   talk too much this year. Casey also, you're incredibly bad at this game. And I basically,

00:07:40   I basically conceded this game because like, like, like what's his name? Adrian bite or

00:07:46   whatever. I made my donation 35 minutes ago because I thought we were doing it before

00:07:50   we started airing. So you could have just looked and seen the amount that I did. But

00:07:53   apparently Marco has just decided he's sick of losing this game. Marco has decided enough

00:08:00   is enough. I have lost every year. Right. So I mean, I've fair, fair enough. Like this

00:08:04   year I was trying to give, honestly, I was trying to give Casey a chance to win this

00:08:07   year, but apparently Casey cannot be helped. Wait, why? Where did 17 come from? I did 11

00:08:14   last year. Oh my God. So, so the, so the final donations from ATP, me and Aaron coming in

00:08:20   last at $7,001 and 43 cents. Then John Siracusa at $7,017 even, and then Marco and Tiff swooping

00:08:29   in to take the lead comfortably take the lead. I should add Marco. How much did you two donate?

00:08:36   77.77. Well done. I do feel like Marco is, again, it's a technical foul on massively

00:08:43   exceeding the amount, but because it's for a charitable cause and because he had never

00:08:46   won before, we're going to let it slide this time. But we can't, we can't support this

00:08:49   kind of inflation. Yeah, this is, this is awfully large inflation. I mean, this is,

00:08:54   this is ridiculous. It shall not stand, but we can't get upset. Anyway, so collectively

00:08:58   ATP has donated according to my little calculator here, $21,796 and 20 cents. Of course that

00:09:05   exact amount is what we would do, but that's what we ended up at. By the way, I have to

00:09:10   say that we're, I mean, this is obviously it's a relay pledge drive and we have relay

00:09:13   podcasts and we are really adjacent. We are friends with them, but I've always been proud

00:09:17   of how much of the relay pledge drive is from listeners to a non-relay podcast. ATP listeners

00:09:24   donate tons of money. Like we already talked about the, like the leaderboard thing we have

00:09:28   for Casey's stickers or whatever, where the, uh, you know, ATP listeners with a large means

00:09:32   of put huge donations in for the chance of getting those stickers, right? Sometimes people

00:09:35   put ATP in their comments or whatever. We've been amazed by how much money, how generous

00:09:40   ATP listeners on are for this pledge drive. So that makes us proud of our listeners. And

00:09:45   I think we're really helping out the, uh, the pledge drive for St. Jude.

00:09:48   Yep. Yeah. I couldn't agree more. It is really kind of you to listen to us make this pledge.

00:09:53   I know this is taking a long time, but honestly, sorry, not sorry because it's worth it. So

00:09:58   thank you so much. We really appreciate you. And again, I will reiterate just because we

00:10:02   donated 7,000 and change some of us almost $8,000. Uh, even though we did that, you can

00:10:07   donate $7. That's fine. We're still happy about that. Don't, don't let us lead you any

00:10:12   other way. We're still very happy about that. So please, the majority of the money is not

00:10:16   the people donating thousands of dollars. It's small donations. Give 10 bucks, give

00:10:20   20 bucks, give five bucks, anything you can. Yep. So please, stjude.org, S T J U D E dot

00:10:26   org slash ATP. Thank you. Let's do some follow up Mac mini redesign updates from Mark Gurman.

00:10:32   So, uh, Mark had announced some expected Mac mini redesign or redesign changes and whatnot,

00:10:39   and then has gone back to the well and has clarified a bit. So Mark writes the M four

00:10:44   pro version of the Mac mini will have five USB C ports, three on the back, two on the

00:10:49   front like the max studio. That model will also retain an ethernet port. Good. HDMI port.

00:10:54   Good. And headphone Jack. Sure. But prepare to say goodbye to the USB ports found on the

00:10:59   current Mac mini. I'm happy with this. Like to me, like the, the retention of most of

00:11:06   the things on it, I'm happy with that. And, and USB a like it's been very helpful to have

00:11:12   USB a ports on lots of things long into the USB C transition. I do think it's now time

00:11:18   that we can drop them on most things. I agree. I agree. Wholeheartedly. Now we're going to

00:11:23   get everyone ready writing to us about how wrong we are, but here, you know, you can't

00:11:26   win them all. Uh, then Mark continues. I've also been told that the computer's power supply

00:11:30   will be internal. This was a big deal because, uh, they're saying, you know, the, the new

00:11:33   Mac mini is going to be roughly a Apple TV sized. And although the Apple TV does indeed

00:11:39   have its power supply internal, uh, which is to say, you just plug in a cord, there's

00:11:43   no brick involved, but you know, that's kind of a computer, but not really a whole computer.

00:11:48   And so people were justifiably a little worried that perhaps, uh, this wouldn't be the case

00:11:52   with the Mac mini. Maybe it would go more like the current IMAX, which have the brick

00:11:56   on the outside, but nope. Apparently the power supply will be internal, which I very, I am

00:12:00   very happy about. Do you know if the Logitech, like the little RF dongle things for their

00:12:04   wireless mice because Bluetooth sucks, uh, if they're USB C now, as far as I know, they're

00:12:09   not now. I do take a little bit of offense at you saying Bluetooth sucks. I'm maybe I'm

00:12:12   a Bluetooth unicorn, but I really don't see the issue with using Bluetooth peripherals.

00:12:16   It's so much worse than the little RF dongles in pretty much all possible ways, except you

00:12:21   don't have to have a dongle, which is great. I mean, honestly, that is very like I've in,

00:12:26   in, you know, various, you know, gaming laptops and stuff. I do use other mice besides Apple's

00:12:31   magic mouse and other people in my family. We have mice all over the house. I have so

00:12:37   far not found a compelling case for the custom RF dongles. To me, there's a compelling case

00:12:42   for wired mice, especially on a gaming PC situation or just a PC situation in general.

00:12:47   There's a compelling case for wired mice and there's a compelling case for Bluetooth mice.

00:12:51   And the other, the other options I just have not found to be worth their hassles. Like

00:12:56   I know their lower latency and different, like I know there are technical advantages.

00:13:01   It's not even that. That's all true. Like the advantages for it. And they actually have

00:13:04   like gaming mice that are wireless now with some super wireless protocol, whatever. It's

00:13:07   mostly the fact that the Bluetooth range and reliability is often at the limit for desktop

00:13:14   computers, even for laptops, keep it far away of working well. Like, I mean, my computer

00:13:19   is my tower computer. I can touch it with my hand. It's not that far away, but no Bluetooth

00:13:24   mouse can reliably communicate with the computer. It's not that far away. RF dongle, I could

00:13:30   be in the other room smooth as glass, right? And that's, that's the advantage. It's just

00:13:34   so much better range and reliability at the cost of filling one of your ports with a little

00:13:38   thing. And the reason I ask about the little dongles is because yeah, this is the Mac mini.

00:13:42   You know, if you're going to get rid of a big port, get rid of it on the computer that

00:13:46   has many in the name. It's supposed to be small. They're making it smaller. I get it.

00:13:48   It's fine. Drop it. But the alternative is to have, you know, a dongle, like a little

00:13:55   stupid white dongle or, you know, some other thing hanging off the back of it that you

00:13:58   then attach your little RF dingus to if you have a mouse like that. And that's more cumbersome

00:14:04   than having a bigger computer with no dongle in some situations. So there is a balance

00:14:08   here. Obviously we should just be blaming Logitech and say, why are you still shipping

00:14:11   USB-A dongles? You're not wrong. Make a USB-C one. Like it's obvious that the thing, the

00:14:16   actual thing that's in there is so tiny. I'm sure it could fit. But anyway, that's, that's

00:14:21   the only downside I can see is like, why would you still have USB-A ports? You've got like

00:14:24   those YubiKey things and like DRM stuff for expensive applications and RF adapters for

00:14:30   mice.

00:14:31   - Indeed. Oh yeah. Yeah. All right. So with regard to minimum amounts of Mac Ram, which

00:14:38   we were talking about in the context of going to, what is it? 12 gigabytes of Ram in future

00:14:43   Mac.

00:14:44   - 16, 16.

00:14:45   - I'm sorry. Thank you. Brian writes, I was at Apple's 1996 worldwide developer conference

00:14:50   where Jill, Emilio, Gil, Gil, Emilio. I got that right this time. See, it's GIF, not Jeff.

00:14:55   Anyway, made the announcement during the keynote that all future Mac models would ship with

00:14:58   a minimum of 12 megabytes of Ram up from 8. As I remember that announcement got a standing

00:15:03   ovation from the developers in attendance. And then apparently after ruminating, and

00:15:09   this is years later, I think after ruminating about my recollections of the WWDC keynote,

00:15:12   I'm no longer confident in my description of the responses of standing ovation. Oh,

00:15:16   this was, I think that Brian had written us a little while later. Anyways, instead the

00:15:20   enthusiasm of the applause was more along the lines of we were expecting the next Ram

00:15:25   jump would be to 16 megs, not 12, but Hey, we'll take it.

00:15:28   - 12 megabytes of Ram kids.

00:15:30   - We did a lot with a little back then. All right. Cigarja writes with regard to the screen

00:15:36   recording badge on outgoing video, excluding the screen recording badge from outgoing video

00:15:41   is actually possible, but it requires the full access screen capture API rather than

00:15:45   the window selection one. The way it works is that the screen recording badges is an

00:15:49   extra child window added by the system that you can mask out while streaming. I didn't

00:15:53   know that. The additional API is required since the window picker lets the system handle

00:15:56   the selection, then it hands you the frames. And this includes the recording badge by default.

00:16:00   Removing it requires assembling the window list yourself, which is quote unquote more

00:16:04   sensitive.

00:16:05   - So as usual to provide a better experience to your users, you need to use the API that

00:16:08   Apple doesn't want you to use.

00:16:10   - With regard to JPEG XL, Kelly Thompson, this is the alleged new codec that Apple's

00:16:17   going to be in, well, it's not that new, but Apple's going to be embracing it, which is

00:16:20   new. Kelly Thompson writes, "Support for reading JPEG XL images has been available on Apple

00:16:24   platform since last year. They work in Safari preview photos and all the apps like Pages

00:16:29   and Keynote. Here's the kicker though. You have all that beautiful dynamic range for

00:16:32   preview and Safari don't support HDR images of any type quite yet. Safari supports HDR

00:16:37   video, but not stills. Obviously HDR images work great in photos. It's a weird state of

00:16:41   half in half out. JPEG XL has been jointly developed by Cloudinary, which I'd never heard

00:16:46   of and Google. For ages, JPEG XL support was behind a flag in Chrome. Everyone was just

00:16:51   waiting for them to turn it on. Then they released a chart saying AVIF handily beats

00:16:56   JXL and remove support." And we'll put a link to the chart in the show notes. "The entire

00:17:01   web responded saying, in fact, the chart showed the exact opposite and everything above quality

00:17:05   55, which is where the vast majority of images saved are. JPEG XL handily beat AVIF at every

00:17:13   point. In fact, JPEG XL isn't optimized at those low quality levels because it's not

00:17:18   really usable. The Google team that works on JPEG XL is in Europe and the team that

00:17:22   works on Chrome is in California. Well, either way from the Chromium bug tracker request,

00:17:27   reopen JPEG XL issue." We'll put a link to that in the show notes. "You may already be

00:17:31   receiving images in this format without even realizing it. Major cloud delivery services

00:17:36   already offer JPEG XL as an option to browsers that support it. One cool feature of the default

00:17:41   JPEG XL encoder, CJXL, is that you can get to select an effort level from one to 10.

00:17:48   If time isn't a critical factor, the encoder can spend more time optimizing file size.

00:17:52   If not, you can compress them as fast as JPEG at the expense of some size. Here's a beta

00:17:56   version of a tool we developed for the upcoming JPEG XL website that shows the relationship

00:18:01   between distance, effort, quality, and encoding speed."

00:18:03   "It's kind of like if you have like ImageOptim and those other sort of PNG crush and all

00:18:07   those utilities that say like use more computation time to make the image a little bit smaller,

00:18:10   that's like built into this format so you have an adjustable how much effort you want

00:18:14   to put in to, you know, getting the smallest size possible, which is just, it's really

00:18:19   just a honeypot for web developers because every web developer will say, I will spend

00:18:24   24 hours making this image smaller because it's going to be served a whole jillion times

00:18:28   in the 30 seconds after I post it, you know what I mean? So every little bit that we can

00:18:33   crush this image makes it. And that was the same thing with CDNs, vending JPEG XL versions

00:18:38   based on the browsers that they know support them or whatever. So yeah, JPEG XL could be

00:18:43   out there and you could be receiving it, but yeah, the support in macOS, I'm hoping if

00:18:47   Apple does announce, hey, these new iPhones have this new image format, if that even happens

00:18:51   at all, I hope support comes to the rest of their platforms. Like things like Preview

00:18:57   and even Safari not being able to show HDR still images in any format, let alone JPEG

00:19:03   XL, seems like a limitation that they should overcome and this would be the perfect time

00:19:06   to do it. So again, I'm rooting for this rumor. This is still just a rumor that Apple's doing

00:19:10   this, but regardless of the rumor, Apple has been adding JPEG XL support slowly and steadily

00:19:15   to their platforms. It's just not fully baked yet. And they certainly haven't announced

00:19:19   that they're switching the iPhone camera to use it as the rumor says they will.

00:19:24   Moving along, we need to talk about the FTC's non-compete agreements ban, which if you recall,

00:19:30   the FTC Federal Trade Commission said here in America, hey, you can't have non-competes

00:19:34   anymore. That's not fair. To which a federal judge said, hold my beer. Reading from the

00:19:39   Verge, a federal judge has blocked the Federal Trade Commission's ban on non-compete agreements

00:19:42   that make it difficult for workers to join their employer's rivals or launch competing

00:19:46   businesses. The ruling prevents the FTC's ban on non-compete agreements from taking

00:19:49   effect on September 4th, which is today, though the agency could still appeal the decision.

00:19:55   On August 20th, US District Judge Ada Brown in Dallas, Texas ruled that the antitrust

00:19:59   agency exceeded its statutory authority to ban practices related to unfair methods of

00:20:03   competition saying the non-compete agreements ban is "unreasonably overbroad without a reasonable

00:20:08   explanation" and would "cause irreparable harm" to whom? Judge Brown, to whom? Brown's

00:20:15   decision now stops the FTC from blocking non-competes nationwide after initially delaying the ban

00:20:19   with a preliminary injunction in July. The ruling upholds a lawsuit that tax firm Ryan,

00:20:25   LLC filed in April to challenge the non-compete agreements ban, arguing that it would make

00:20:29   it difficult for companies to retain talent. Here's an idea. Work harder to retain the

00:20:33   friggin' talent.

00:20:34   I love that. It would make us harder to retain talent if we couldn't legally handcuff our

00:20:39   employees by telling them they can't get a job at the same industry for some arbitrary

00:20:42   amount of time.

00:20:43   Get out of here with that nonsense.

00:20:44   I love the things that are quoting here like "unreasonably overbroad without a reasonable

00:20:50   explanation." I'm pretty sure the people on the other side of this case gave a reasonable

00:20:55   explanation for why non-competes are bad. Now maybe they mean a reasonable explanation

00:20:58   of why this particular agency has the ability to do this or whatever. It's frustrating.

00:21:04   We would hope that collectively we can find a way that will survive judicial challenge

00:21:11   to get rid of this horrible thing that is non-compete. The state of California did it

00:21:15   somehow. The US government is still working on that. So fingers crossed.

00:21:20   It's so gross. I dislike it so very much.

00:21:24   Moving along though, apparently more governments would also like in on pooping on the App Store

00:21:28   because Spain has launched an investigation into Apple's App Store. This was in July.

00:21:34   Reading from MacRumors, the National Commission of Markets and Competition, the CNMC, this

00:21:39   week announced a probe into the App Store, citing concerns that the company might be

00:21:43   imposing unfair trading conditions on developers who distribute their applications to the platform.

00:21:48   Investigation was initiated ex officio, reflecting the significant economic influence of App

00:21:52   Stores in Spain. Apple's practices could constitute an abuse of a dominant position, which is

00:21:57   prohibited under Spanish competition laws and the treaty on the functioning of the European

00:22:00   Union, TFEU.

00:22:03   Additionally, India has an antitrust probe which finds Apple has abused its position

00:22:08   in the apps market. Reading from Reuters, an investigation by India's antitrust body

00:22:12   has found that Apple exploited its dominant position in the market for App Stores on its

00:22:15   iOS operating system, engaging in "abusive conduct and practices," a confidential report

00:22:21   seen by Reuters showed. The Competition Commission of India, or CCI, has been investigating Apple

00:22:28   since 2021 for possibly abusing its dominant position in the apps market by forcing developers

00:22:32   to use its proprietary in-app purchase system.

00:22:35   And then, going for the trifecta, the UK has entered the chat. Reading from 9to5Mac, a

00:22:40   UK antitrust investigation into Apple has officially closed, despite finding the company

00:22:43   to be at fault after the regulator missed a legal deadline. However, a case seems almost

00:22:49   certain to be reopened under an upcoming law which will grant new powers to the Competition

00:22:52   and Markets Authority, or CMA.

00:22:54   I wonder if all these governments are like cheating off each other, or like, the language

00:22:57   in these stories from three entirely different outlets is so similar, and the language of

00:23:01   all of their complaints is so similar, that it's like, these places smell blood in the

00:23:06   water, and they're like, "Well, this is a thing now. Everyone's, you know, trying to

00:23:11   tamp down the App Store, citing the same type of things, like competition, abusing dominant

00:23:15   position, yada yada, so everyone's getting in on the act. Now how will these all turn

00:23:18   out? Who knows? But the problems for Apple are just getting started."

00:23:24   As we said they would when this started like years and years ago, we're like, when one

00:23:27   country does this, more are going to follow. It's not going to be like, "Oh, you're going

00:23:30   to satisfy the Japan Trade Commission, and that'll be it. You'll never hear about this

00:23:33   again." Nope.

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00:25:37   So it is time for everyone's favorite tradition, which was a genuinely excellent idea that

00:25:42   Marco came up with a few years back. This is the iPhone 15 exit interview. Marco, would

00:25:47   you like to introduce this? Yeah, I started doing this a few years ago,

00:25:51   as Casey said. This is basically on the eve of the iPhone's replacement, the episode before

00:25:57   they're going to have their event and launch the new one. I like to send the old one out

00:26:02   kind of with an exit interview of how was the outgoing phone this year. Now that we've

00:26:07   had a whole year of usage, it kind of helps inform other shows more often do kind of direct

00:26:13   like predictions or wish lists of what we want for the next phone that will be announced

00:26:18   next week. And I think having it kind of framed as an exit interview of the previous phone

00:26:25   helps to inform kind of what matters and what kind of progress we're actually hoping to

00:26:30   have and in what areas. So we're going to start with the iPhone 15 Pro. And now to be

00:26:37   clear, Jon, you didn't have the 15 Pro, right? This wasn't your year?

00:26:40   Yeah, but my wife did. So I've experienced the phone.

00:26:43   Right. And Casey, you had the big one for the first time and I have the medium sized

00:26:47   one, which I guess is the small technically, but it's, you know, there's only two sizes

00:26:51   and neither of them are small. Aaron did get a 15 Pro, not a Pro Max. So

00:26:57   I've used it some, obviously not as much as she in the same way that Jon has used Tina's

00:27:01   some, but you are the only one of the three of us that has actually used it full time.

00:27:06   So, iPhone 15 Pro, I would say the number one thing that I absolutely love about this

00:27:13   phone, USB-C. We were waiting for it for so long. They finally gave it to us in the 15

00:27:19   line. And this is not a small deal. This has been a big deal. This has been so nice. So

00:27:25   not only do I have easier charging everywhere that I am, like, because all over my house,

00:27:33   my backpack, my traveling, now we just have one kind of cable and it charges everything.

00:27:42   It's amazing. There are no more lightning cables in my travel bag at all. And around

00:27:48   the house, there are hardly any lightning cables necessary for almost anything. The

00:27:52   only thing we use lightning for is charging Apple TV remotes, which we almost never have

00:27:56   to do. Like that's literally like, you know, maybe twice a year we charge an Apple TV remote.

00:27:59   Well, the modern ones are USB-C. The older ones were. Yes, I just never upgraded to that

00:28:04   one. So no more lightning cables for almost anything except for, yeah, Apple TV charging

00:28:09   for the remote. Also on my desk, I have to have one to power up older iPhones that I

00:28:16   use as test phones and also to charge Magic Mice and Magic Trackpads. That's it. Like,

00:28:21   oh, and I guess a couple of my older AirPods cases. But even like my travel AirPods Pros

00:28:26   are now the USB-C model there, which is an upgrade I strongly recommend. It's so good.

00:28:31   Oh, I really want to do it, but I'm too cheap. It feels so wasteful, but like for, but I

00:28:35   had to get a second pair because one of the old ones finally died and it's so I got the

00:28:39   new one. Oh man, it's so nice. But anyway, yeah. Having all USB-C total game changer.

00:28:47   I've even found that there's a lot of kind of like little things you can now do that

00:28:53   you couldn't do as easily or at all before because it supports USB-C. So for instance,

00:28:58   I can plug in my big Fuji camera with a regular USB-C cable, even just a quote charging cable

00:29:05   that only uses like slow USB two speeds. I can connect that directly from the camera

00:29:09   to my phone and import photos. It's glorious. Like so much little stuff like that just works.

00:29:17   Some audio equipment works that way too. Like I have found it is just USB-C has been an

00:29:23   awesome upgrade on the iPhone. And if you are still holding onto an older phone and

00:29:27   you're wondering like, should I upgrade, you know, this year or whatever, USB-C alone is

00:29:33   a great reason to upgrade. But you know, that's obviously how much that's worth to you. It

00:29:38   depends on the pricing, but wow, is it nice. That is so much nicer. Like I knew it would

00:29:44   be nice to just like, you know, get rid of some cables. I had no idea how nice it would

00:29:48   be. So I am extremely, even like, you know, simple stuff like, you know, you have like

00:29:51   a USB, you know, battery pack that you're using to charge up something and you want,

00:29:56   Oh, can I top off my phone for a minute? Yeah, sure. Just pop out whatever you're charging

00:29:59   and plug into the phone and then you unplug the phone and plug in a laptop or an AirPods

00:30:03   case or whatever, all with the same cable, all connected to the same battery without

00:30:06   having to like mess with things. Oh, it's so nice. It is so good. So yeah, USB-C A plus.

00:30:12   Yeah. Just to jump in really quickly. I like Marco said, I knew this was going to be an

00:30:17   improvement for sure. Uh, I didn't realize how vast an improvement it was going to be.

00:30:23   Uh, it is so empowering is a bit dramatic, I think, but I don't, I can't think of a better

00:30:29   word for it at the moment. It's so empowering to look at any of my devices, asterisk and

00:30:34   any cable I have nearby and say, yep, that'll work. And maybe it won't be as quick as I

00:30:39   want to be that data or power, but one way or another, anything can charge anything.

00:30:44   Just the other day on one of the final pool days we had before our little community pool

00:30:48   had closed, a friend of ours came and she has an iPhone 15 pro I guess as well. Yeah,

00:30:54   cause it's USB-C anyways, she has an iPhone 15 pro and it was near death because she had

00:30:58   forgotten to charge it the night before and I didn't have a charger with me, but I had

00:31:03   my fully charged iPad with me and I had a USB-C cable in the car and I said, hold on,

00:31:09   I know what I'll do. And I went and I grabbed my USB-C to see cable from the car, plugged

00:31:14   iPhone into her iPhone and sure enough, she slurped her phone, slurped up some of the

00:31:18   charge from my iPad, which was totally fine. Having anything being able to charge anything

00:31:22   again, asterisk, et cetera, et cetera, is so great. And to your point, Marco, not having

00:31:27   to carry 44 different cables is so nice. It's just, it's so wonderful to not have to care

00:31:33   if the thing I need to be charged is the computer, is the iPad, is the phone. It doesn't matter.

00:31:39   All of them charge the same way. Yeah. And the only downside I would say is that the

00:31:44   USB-C hole in the phone does get like lint from your pocket in there in a way that is

00:31:49   harder to remove than with lightning. With lightning you could put pretty much anything

00:31:53   up there and just kind of scrape it out and it would just kind of fall out. USB-C, I did

00:31:57   have an issue earlier in the year where I had to like, where I thought my port was breaking.

00:32:02   So I just couldn't get cables to sit right or charge reliably. And it was just crap in

00:32:06   the port and I had thought it wasn't because I had just done like some basic, you know,

00:32:10   clean out with like one of those plastic tools thinking like maybe this will do it. And it

00:32:14   took like a little bit deeper of a clean to get all that stuff out. And it was just stuff

00:32:18   in the port. It was just, you know, harder to get out than lightning. But other than

00:32:21   that, it's been only benefit. And I also like, I thought, and we've been talking for, you

00:32:27   know, years before they did this, I really thought that the public perception of the

00:32:32   USB-C change would be as harsh as it was when they switched from the dock connector to lightning.

00:32:37   Yeah, that's true. I thought the exact same. Like regular people out there hated the switch

00:32:42   to lightning from the dock connector because they were like Apple is just doing this as

00:32:46   a cash grab to, you know, to sell new cables and new bricks, whatever. And, you know, this

00:32:51   time I thought we would have the same problem and we just didn't. I think that's largely

00:32:55   because USB-C is not proprietary to Apple. And so when they made this change, there was

00:33:02   already a massive marketplace of USB-C cables and chargers made by everybody. And so it

00:33:08   was not as much of like, oh, they're trying to sell their own cable. Like I'd be surprised

00:33:13   if Apple sells many of their own cables. I think most people just get whatever they can

00:33:17   on Amazon and it's fine. I'm pretty sure if you go back and listen to old episodes of

00:33:20   ATP, all those reasons you just cited were actually cited back when we were discussing

00:33:23   this. So I don't think either one of you or any of us actually thought it would be as

00:33:27   bad because we listed those reasons. And lo and behold it wasn't. Although that said,

00:33:32   I think it has been even quieter than we thought it would be. Because when we were discussing

00:33:35   it we were like, okay, well, is this going to be as bad? Here are these mitigating factors

00:33:38   that could make it not as bad. But not only was it not as bad as lightning to USB or lightning

00:33:43   to 30 pin to lightning, I think it was just pretty much a non-issue. I mean, maybe it's

00:33:50   more of an issue outside our circles. Maybe most people don't have a USB-C phone. Maybe

00:33:54   it's lagging. But right now on the eve of the iPhone 16, I think it has exceeded expectations

00:34:00   into how much better the transition was. Even though I think we all said it was going to

00:34:04   be better. We didn't think it was going to be this much better.

00:34:06   And I certainly did not think it was going to be, as you said, like this quiet. Like

00:34:09   no one, see, I heard no complaints from literally anybody that they changed the port. Like,

00:34:15   you know, granted, you're right that not everybody is on that fast of an upgrade cycle. But still,

00:34:20   I literally heard zero problems about this.

00:34:22   Oh, speaking of the port, on the flip side, my wife's iPhone 15 Pro is the only USB-C

00:34:28   phone in the house. And so we have the opposite problem here where it's not like we've gone

00:34:31   to this whole USB-C lifestyle. We have those communal chargers everywhere with lightning

00:34:36   stuff and we had to add the right number of USB-C things there. Now, arguably we should

00:34:41   have been adding them before because we've got USB-C iPads. We just happen to have other

00:34:45   places to charge our iPads. But now every place where there's a bunch of lightning cables,

00:34:48   there's now at least one USB-C cable in the mix. Eventually we'll fully transition, but

00:34:54   it's going to be a while because my wife uses, I believe, four, maybe three. She carries

00:34:59   four iPhones. She uses three of them for Pokemon Go. One of them is her work phone. So she's

00:35:04   just like a brick. Can you imagine how much four Pro phones weigh? It's just so heavy.

00:35:10   Anyway, it's going to be a while before all four of those phones are on USB-C. So I have

00:35:13   a long road ahead of me with a combination of lightning and USB-C on all our communal

00:35:18   chargers.

00:35:19   And while we're on USB-C here, I just wanted to give a shout out to USB-C Power Delivery.

00:35:28   As a spec and as a product ecosystem, USB-C PD has, and for the less nerdy people out

00:35:35   there, that is the spec that allows USB-C to deliver much higher power amounts than

00:35:42   old USB could ever deliver. That's how you can get USB to power an entire laptop by itself,

00:35:47   for instance. The move in general for so many tech products, and even products that are

00:35:54   kind of just barely tech products, the move to being powered by USB-C and USB-C PD wattages

00:36:01   has made overall life so much, just like a little bit nicer in a lot of ways. It's like

00:36:07   the inverse of paper cuts. We complain about little paper cuts on little annoyances in

00:36:12   products. This is like, whatever the opposite of a paper cut would be. A paper circle? I

00:36:17   don't know. I can't think of a good word that's funny. But it is just a little delight, I

00:36:22   guess that's the word, all the time. Little delights where, and you don't necessarily

00:36:29   realize it, once you've moved to the USB-C world, you don't realize how good you have

00:36:34   it until you have to go use something older that has its own power brick or its own older

00:36:39   USB micro or whatever port. The world we have now is so nice to me. All that stuff about

00:36:46   like, wow, I can charge all my phone and my iPad and my laptop from all the same thing.

00:36:51   That's true. And that shows in lots of bigger ways now too. So many other gadgets or things

00:36:59   are now powered by USB because it's just kind of cheaper and widely available. So many devices.

00:37:05   I even have a power drill that is powered by USB-C now and has its own built in. I mean,

00:37:11   look, I'm not a contractor, but for my purposes, it's totally fine. There are so many things

00:37:16   like that now that are entering my life gradually over the last few years that just, oh, this

00:37:20   new XYZ thing, this is now USB-C powered. It could be so many things like toothbrushes,

00:37:27   vacuum cleaners, so many things are now being USB-C powered. And the more stuff that you

00:37:31   get like that in your life, the more those little conveniences and delights you're into

00:37:37   sometimes. Oh, I need to get a new power adapter for my drill. Do I have to buy the proprietary

00:37:44   thing from the drill company? No, it's just USB-C. I want to have a shorter or longer

00:37:49   cable for this gadget. Do I have to buy a special thing or see if anybody makes a weird

00:37:53   one on Amazon? No, you can just use USB-C. There are so many little tiny things like

00:37:58   that that add up in your life over time, the more you're into the USB-C lifestyle. So thank

00:38:03   God for the Europeans for forcing this upon Apple. And thank God for the ecosystem for

00:38:09   being here and for pretty gradually, but now with quite some speed behind it, converting

00:38:16   over to this wonderful lifestyle. It is wonderful. I love USB-C. For the data side of it, yeah,

00:38:21   it's a mess. The power side of it is awesome. Yeah, agreed. Let me give the EU partial credit

00:38:26   because I think we said before, I think Apple would have switched with or without the EU.

00:38:30   It's just a question of the individual timing. They might have even done it at exactly the

00:38:33   same time because they did do it earlier than required. But yeah, Apple's lack of investment

00:38:37   in lightning and the lack of expansion in the capabilities of that port made it inevitable

00:38:41   that they would eventually go to USB-C. So they have. And I think one of their stated

00:38:46   goals, one of the EU's stated goals was reducing e-waste. And I think largely this does that.

00:38:53   The move of so many things to USB-C power, I think really does reduce e-waste. Again,

00:39:00   go through your tech closets and see how many things there are that have their own custom

00:39:04   power bricks and stuff that now the modern versions of those don't because they can be

00:39:09   USB-C powered. I think they make a pretty big impact here. So again, so happy about

00:39:14   this change. Alright, let's move on to the other headlining feature of the iPhone 15

00:39:20   Pro, the action button. It's funny, it got out there. There was a little bit of drama

00:39:25   here and there with cases. And then we pretty much never heard about it for the rest of

00:39:30   the year. But I gotta say, I find the action button so useful that I instantly took it

00:39:35   for granted. Like the idea now of using a phone without the action button would be a

00:39:39   significant paper cut to me. It would be like a significant step down because I use mine.

00:39:43   I have it set up for the flashlight. I know there's lots of other ideas people have for

00:39:46   it but I need a flashlight fairly frequently. And I use it at least twice a day. And I just,

00:39:52   I love having that hardware button there. It is fantastic. Yeah, I use mine for camera.

00:39:58   And I know that many would call that a kind of a novice or noob approach because there

00:40:04   are many other ways to get to your camera. Most of which are fairly quick. But I don't

00:40:08   want to have to think about it or have to worry about swiping in just the right way

00:40:12   that it actually listens to me and swipes the way I want it to go from the lock screen.

00:40:17   And so for me, I love having the camera as my action button action. And I use that at

00:40:25   least daily. I don't personally think I would use the flashlight quite as much. But hey,

00:40:30   that doesn't mean you're wrong at all. If it works for you, that's all that matters.

00:40:34   I don't know that I would be lost or anything without having the action button, you know,

00:40:41   in like a in a future phone. And for some reason it went away. But I definitely would

00:40:45   would miss having it for sure. And maybe one day I'll use it for something more advanced.

00:40:49   But yeah, I think the action button also gets a thumbs up for me for sure. I think the camera

00:40:53   is perfectly good thing to use it for my success rate at doing the swipe gesture for the camera

00:40:57   is so low. I end up using the the what you would think would be the even slower one where

00:41:03   you have to hold your finger on the little camera icon. It's like you have there's a

00:41:06   delay. You're like, why are you using the one with the delay? That's got to be slower.

00:41:09   No, because when I try to swipe and it fails, and I try to swipe and it's always like, oh,

00:41:12   got to get the camera out quick, you know, because something cute is happening or whatever,

00:41:15   right? That is the time when I am completely unable to get the camera up. So the action

00:41:19   button is going to be great. But I have to say that when I need to get my camera real

00:41:24   fast, it's almost always my phone and not my wife's phone. So I actually haven't built

00:41:28   the habit of using the action button, even though hers is set to camera, because I'm

00:41:33   never grabbing her phone real quick to take a picture because going over to where she

00:41:37   is or getting her phone is going to kill the time that it would be required anyway. So

00:41:40   I'm looking forward to my iPhone 16 with the action button so that I can build that habit

00:41:44   because I can almost guarantee that pressing that side button is going to have a much higher

00:41:49   success rate than me trying to swipe or me having to hold my finger down on that little

00:41:53   thing.

00:41:54   Yep, very much so.

00:41:55   And then finally, the only other thing I'll say about the iPhone 15 Pro is that the thermals

00:42:01   really have been pretty bad. It really, you know, we all saw right at the beginning, we're

00:42:06   like, this phone seems to run hot, really hot. It does. It does run very hot and it

00:42:11   does thermal throttle itself a lot in use, especially like in the sun in a car. That's

00:42:17   why I had to like buy a chiller phone mount that uses, you know, a thermoelectric element

00:42:24   just to cool the phone down in the car just so I could keep the display on and take any

00:42:28   power whatsoever. Like this phone runs hot and it has run hot since day one. And Apple

00:42:34   tried to, I think they successfully mitigated the bad press that could have resulted from

00:42:39   that when people started reporting that right at the beginning. And they issued a soft,

00:42:42   they said it was a software issue and they issued a software update. It wasn't a software

00:42:46   issue. It was a hardware flaw. This phone overheats much more easily than previous phones

00:42:50   did. And the rumors are that the upcoming 16 Pros that should be announced next week

00:42:55   apparently have a modified and better thermal design. And that's, so that is, when I look

00:43:01   at my 16 Pro wish list, it's actually really short. It's, I want better thermals and I

00:43:07   could use the 5X camera that Casey has, which it does seem like both of those things have

00:43:11   been pretty solidly rumored the entire time for that phone.

00:43:14   I have to say though, how many years? I think it's been like three or four years that there

00:43:18   have been rumors of better cooling in iPhones. Vapor chambers, graphite sheets, not just

00:43:23   this year, not just for the iPhone 7, but last year and the year before that and the

00:43:26   year before that. And we have never gotten them. So I really, really hope this is the

00:43:30   year. Cause those rumors are always there. And the reason they're there is every year,

00:43:34   like again, if you have a phone out in the sun, they will overheat, right? Or if, if

00:43:38   when you first update your phone and it's doing all the indexing, they get hot. People

00:43:42   don't like that. And so they're always like, boy, could there be better cooling? And then

00:43:45   you look at what Apple has done with cooling and we know they could do more because Android

00:43:49   phones are like, what, what more can we do? Can we, can we do more than just having, you

00:43:52   know, a heat sink up against the thing and so on and so forth. And yes, you can. Lots

00:43:55   of other phone makers have done things. And so whenever we see the rumors, Apple's going

00:43:58   to do it, they're going to put those graphite sheets in there. They're going to use more

00:44:01   thermal paste. They're going to use a vapor chamber every year. We're just disappointed.

00:44:05   And obviously the 15 Pro had the, what the heck is the chip? The A18 Pro? I don't even

00:44:11   remember the numbers anymore. Yeah. The one on the new three, three-animator process.

00:44:15   Right. And so it was a really, they were pushing the limits with that chip on, on that process

00:44:20   that Apple's already moving away from. I kind of see why it had thermal issues. And I also

00:44:26   kind of say, see why this would have been a good phone to try out those graphite sheets.

00:44:30   You know what I mean? Like, but no, it didn't, didn't happen. So I really hope it does come

00:44:34   on the 16th. But if we go another year and everyone's like, oh, those rumors were for

00:44:37   the 17, not the 16, I am going to be disappointed. Despite the fact that in general, I haven't

00:44:43   noticed my wife's phone getting particularly hot, except for when she's playing Pokemon

00:44:46   Go, in which case that makes all of her phones hot. But you know, it's, as long as it gets

00:44:50   the job done, as long as it doesn't, you know, stop working, which is your problem when you

00:44:53   have it in the car, like it literally stops being able to be used for the thing you're

00:44:56   trying to use it for because the screen gets so dim you can't see it anymore. I don't know

00:45:01   if the 15 Pro was over any kind of limit to bother people more than some past phones,

00:45:06   but it's time for Apple to invest a little bit more in cooling on their top end phones.

00:45:13   You know, it's funny you bring all this up because I do agree that the throttling is

00:45:17   an issue and that the thermals are not stellar. But I would actually say to my estimation,

00:45:22   this was a mild improvement over past years. And you know, when I'm using my phone at the

00:45:27   aforementioned pool, I think it was the 14 Pro, maybe it was the 13 Pro, but I want to

00:45:32   say it was the 14 Pro. That bad boy was so dark I could barely read it pretty much always.

00:45:38   Whereas this one, it definitely gets dim and noticeably so, but I feel like not only would

00:45:44   it recover quicker, but it didn't get as dim as the either the 13 or the 14. So while I

00:45:51   don't disagree that, that we do, I think we do need improvements and I hope for improvements.

00:45:56   I actually thought that this was a slight improvement over years past, although not

00:46:01   a great one. I think you're just experiencing screen improvements there and not necessarily

00:46:04   thermal improvements, right? Because I think just the screen is brighter and takes less

00:46:08   power at a given level of brightness. So now the dim one is not as dim and you're attributing

00:46:13   that to better cooling or better thermals. But I think it's just screen improvements

00:46:18   that you're benefiting from there. But anyway, it doesn't feel like that's the case, but

00:46:21   you very well could be right either. Either way, the experience isn't as bad as it is.

00:46:25   That's the thing though. It's very situational. Like if you, if you buy a car with a big glass

00:46:28   roof and all of a sudden your phone is overheating because on the dashboard it's getting more

00:46:31   direct sunlight, you're going to say, oh, it's the phone's fault, but maybe it's because

00:46:34   you got a new car, right? Like these, all of these phones have always been very vulnerable

00:46:38   to being in direct sunlight for any amount of time. And it's just a question of do you

00:46:42   start putting your phone in more direct sunlight? If so, you will perceive that phone as being

00:46:47   worse thermally. But I mean, there's 15 pros I have heard people saying it gets a little

00:46:51   bit warmer than they expected. And like a lot of these things, especially with the SoC,

00:46:55   the heat is very localized and it's when the SoC is doing a lot of work, right? There's

00:47:00   the thing that gets hot is that little SoC in there. And so on iPhone setup day when

00:47:04   it's doing redo all your indexes and doing all that stuff, yeah, it's going to get real

00:47:08   hot and people are going to notice. But I think over, over time with normal phone usage

00:47:11   where you just pick it up, scroll through something and put it back down, it doesn't

00:47:14   really get a chance to get that hot until you put it on the dashboard of your car. And

00:47:18   then I guess one more thing on the 15 before we leave it. I really do appreciate the titanium

00:47:25   as a weight saving measure. I don't think it needs necessarily be titanium specifically.

00:47:30   It could be lots of other, it could be aluminum for all I care. Like aluminum was fine for

00:47:34   a long time and it is lighter than titanium even. So that would be fine as well. But I'm

00:47:42   very glad they switched away from steel. I do know that like apparently they switched

00:47:45   two to titanium and some of the structural change they made inside I think were actually

00:47:49   part of the problem with the thermals. And I believe that they, that's part of why they

00:47:53   had to revise them for the 16 line next week. But overall it does feel very good in the

00:47:59   hand. It feels great. So I love the overall design of it with the exception that I think

00:48:05   the colors were garbage for the profile. Like I got the natural gray one which I thought,

00:48:10   I don't know, last fall I was kind of in a gray mood and I thought this is going to be

00:48:14   cool and different. And no, it's just gray.

00:48:16   I don't know, I slightly disagree with you there. It is just gray, but I do think it's

00:48:20   cool gray, like a neat gray. But I do mostly agree with you. If you'll permit me to just

00:48:26   carry on since I've already interrupted you. With regard to the 15 Pro Max, I don't hate

00:48:34   the size. I don't hate the size and I do like having a little more real estate. It turns

00:48:39   out that if you have a phone this big and your hands aren't freakishly large, a pop

00:48:42   socket is pretty much compulsory. I have been thinking long and hard about what I will do

00:48:48   if the Tetra Prism 5x lens comes to the Pro but not Pro Max phone. So if the iPhone 16

00:48:55   Pro gets the 5x lens, sitting here now, I think I'm going to go back to the smaller

00:49:00   one with the human size one.

00:49:02   That'll be the test actually because right now you're like, oh, the big phone, it's annoying,

00:49:06   but it's nice to have more screen with that. You're really going to find out how much you

00:49:09   care about that screen when you go back to a smaller one. That's what you're going to

00:49:12   notice. If you don't know this, it takes you a day to find it, whatever. But if you look

00:49:16   at that screen and you're like, I'm so used to seeing so much more stuff or in this app,

00:49:19   I could see a whole other column of whatevers, that's going to really hurt you. So you may,

00:49:23   we'll see if you've irrevocably become one of the giant phone people or whether you were

00:49:28   just a tourist in their land.

00:49:30   Right. And sitting here now, I think I was just a tourist, but I say that with little

00:49:34   to no conviction. And the thing that frustrates me so about the big phone is that for my hands,

00:49:41   for my body, it's really not a one handed phone for anything more than swiping vertically.

00:49:47   And even still, if I'm using one hand, I must have the pop socket out. And I actually have

00:49:52   come around on the pop socket. I don't think it's a bad thing at all. I, but I think in

00:49:55   a perfect world, I would rather go back down to the standard size phone, presumably stop

00:50:02   using a pop socket. I mean, we'll see what happens. And being able to use my phone one

00:50:07   handed because it really is uncomfortable to use these giant phones one handed. And,

00:50:12   and I just really disliked that. I miss being able to use my phone one handed. And I think

00:50:16   what would happen is I would get the smaller phone. If this is the way I go, I'll get the

00:50:20   regular size phone and I'll say, man, I do miss that screen, but, Oh boy, is it nice

00:50:26   to be able to use my phone one handed again. And so I think ultimately that's going to

00:50:30   win the day, but we'll see what happens now, now that I've shown that I can show myself,

00:50:35   that is that I can handle a big phone. If there is some sort of big phone only feature

00:50:40   that I feel interested in, like compelled by, then I'll just stick with the big phone.

00:50:45   Now the current rumors are that I don't think that's going to be the case, but if it is,

00:50:50   I don't think I would like begrudge for lack of a better word, you know, getting another

00:50:53   big phone, but sitting here today, I don't think that's what I want to do. That being

00:50:58   said, the 5x lens, I am very glad that I went for it and that I got it. There are definitely

00:51:04   times that I want to be between two and five for sure. And I think Marco, you were not

00:51:09   whining about this. That's not the word I'm looking for either, but you were, you were

00:51:11   concerned about this before it came out. And I think it's a valid concern. There are definitely

00:51:16   times that I want an in between and in a perfect world, I would want, you know, one or one

00:51:21   half, one, two, three, and five. And I know that's nuts and that's not going to happen,

00:51:26   but that would be excellent. But I, I stand by getting the big phone for the 5x lens.

00:51:31   I really do feel like it gives me reach in scenarios that I wouldn't have gotten nearly

00:51:36   as good a shot otherwise. And I don't want to give that up. So if for some reason the

00:51:41   regular size phone doesn't get the tetra prism lens, I will almost certainly stick with the

00:51:45   big phone. Having never had a big phone before, a lot of people would say that, oh, the battery

00:51:51   life is infinite. Not unlike the Apple watch ultra, you know, battery life is forever.

00:51:55   It's amazing. No, or at least not in my experience. I don't feel like it's demonstrably better

00:52:01   than the regular size phones. Maybe I'm using my phone now more now. Maybe I'm a banana.

00:52:07   I mean, maybe I'm off my rocker. I don't know, but I don't feel like the battery life was

00:52:12   night and day better. I really don't. But I do think to echo what Marco said, Marco

00:52:19   said the USB-C four thumbs up from me. I, the, the titanium two thumbs up. I do think

00:52:27   that the natural titanium is a good color, but I concur that the rest of the colors stink

00:52:31   and it looks like they're only going to get worse. Um, but yeah, I mean all in all, I

00:52:36   really do like these phones a lot. I really have enjoyed it. The one thing I will say,

00:52:40   I will say again, and I've said this for the last several years, the front screen is too

00:52:47   easily scratched. It is. I scratched the snot out of this thing. I have no idea how it's

00:52:52   so badly scratched that I am genuinely thinking I might become one of those lunatics.

00:52:57   It puts a screen protector on their phone because this thing is scratched to hell and

00:53:01   I hate that. I hate it. And normally I would just go to Apple and use my Apple cares, you

00:53:06   know, a repair incident and I'll probably try to do it to see if they'll do it. But

00:53:11   last time I tried this, they were like, oh, it's not damaged enough. Tough nuts. And I'm

00:53:14   just barely honest enough that I don't just throw the thing on the ground in front of

00:53:18   them and say, how about now? It is definitely a weird incentive they've created. I'm saying,

00:53:24   um, I didn't do that last year. I don't plan on doing it this year, but, um, but it is

00:53:29   very tempting. Sounds like somebody might need a phone pouch. No, I hear you scratching

00:53:34   your screen. How is this happening? How are you still using a phone pouch? What year is

00:53:39   this? Casey needs to be. I'm not using one. I have one scratch on my screen. It is very

00:53:44   small and I've had this phone for two years, right? I don't know what you're doing. Unless

00:53:48   you're going to have someone to follow you around with the camera to find out what you're

00:53:50   doing is you stick your phone into your pocket full of sand. Maybe you need a pouch. Yeah,

00:53:54   I genuinely don't know. And these are not small scratches. Like one of them is horrible.

00:53:58   Semi horizontally. I'm saying, are you putting it in your pocket with keys? No, I don't.

00:54:03   It's gotta be me. I'm not saying it's not my fault, but darned if I know what it was.

00:54:08   And I've been rolling mostly caseless this year because I never really found a case I

00:54:13   loved. I adored, what was it? The peel case. I think we talked about this one. It was new.

00:54:17   I adored the peel case, but they had a cutout for the action button, which I could not abide.

00:54:23   And to the best of my knowledge, they never revised it. Like what was the one that they

00:54:27   sent out? Like a, that was peak design. I actually, that's the one I've been using the

00:54:30   last few months. Yeah. And I have nothing against the peak design case. It's just, oh,

00:54:34   it's great. Honestly, I really loved the peel case so very much, but I could not abide the

00:54:38   lack of anything for the action button. Um, but I will say in the defense of the glass

00:54:44   and actually David, David shop in the chat just reminded me of this. Uh, I have dropped

00:54:49   this thing case free a handful of times, not dramatically, but a handful of times in cases

00:54:55   where I was in situations where I was like, oh, here we go. Oh, well at least I'll get

00:54:59   a new screen now. But, um, but I've, I've dropped it by accident a handful of times

00:55:03   and it's been no worse for wear, which I do appreciate, but golly, can I please have a

00:55:08   less scratch prone screen? And I think, I think this trade off is the one Apple would

00:55:12   say is the right one. It's better to people because you've seen people use screens that

00:55:16   are just destroyed. So people's tolerance for using screens that are messed up is great,

00:55:21   but shattering is over a lot of people's limits. So the trade off is essentially you can make

00:55:26   it more scratch proof, but then it's going to be more prone to shattering. And so Apple,

00:55:30   the bounce Apple has chosen is it's going to get a bunch of little hairline scratches

00:55:34   all over it if you do whatever the hell Casey's doing, but it will be more resistant to full

00:55:39   blown shattering when you drop it. And despite the fact that that might annoy some of us

00:55:44   too, like if you're very careful with your phone, a harder screen that was more scratch

00:55:47   resistant, it would be better for you. But hell, I've dropped my phone plenty of times.

00:55:51   It's dropped off my nightstand onto a wooden floor plenty of times. I've dropped it off

00:55:55   the dining room table onto a wooden floor. Like it hasn't been here in a case, aren't

00:55:58   you? Yeah, I'm in a case, but you know, like you could still get unlucky with the, with

00:56:01   the way it falls in that situation. So I've dropped it enough times that I'm glad that

00:56:05   it is as shadow resistant as it is. I mean, I am glad it's shatter resistant for sure,

00:56:10   but and I do think you're right that this is a problem I can fix with the screen protector

00:56:13   and I think the more I think about it and the more I talk about it, the more I think

00:56:17   I am, I am probably gonna not have to, but choose to do that for the next one. So if

00:56:22   you have a screen protector recommendation that you swear by, please reach out via Mastodon.

00:56:26   Don't email us cause we're, it's too much to email please. But I would love to hear

00:56:30   from Mastodon or threads for that matter, a screen protector that you enjoy and a clean

00:56:34   room for Casey to apply it in. Yeah, well pretty much. Some of them have gotten like

00:56:38   really advanced at like, so like the, when you order most like, you know, decent brand

00:56:42   ones now, they come with basically little like kits that like you like, you like lay

00:56:47   it on in this like plastic cradle and you like flip this thing right down exactly the

00:56:52   right angle. Like they get really, uh, pretty, pretty complicated to try to do it right.

00:56:57   They're trying to help you as best they can because they know it's a difficult thing to

00:57:00   do. But if you're doing in a, in a like a house full of cat dander or something, you're

00:57:04   kind of fighting uphill battle. I've actually heard you're often better off having either,

00:57:09   sometimes the Apple store will have people who are willing to do it for you if you buy

00:57:13   it there. But I don't even know if they still sell screen protectors there, but I think

00:57:15   Best Buy does it too or something like that. This is a skilled labor thing. Yeah. Like

00:57:19   even like mall kiosks that sell phone accessories will often do it for you for some small fee.

00:57:25   And usually like I would actually suggest maybe trying that option because yeah, as

00:57:31   John said, like, you know, when you buy one and try to apply it, you've done, you're doing

00:57:34   this in your house with whatever conditions you can best approximate that are actually

00:57:39   somewhat near maybe being ideal, but not quite ideal. And you're going to do what, two of

00:57:44   these a year at most, you know, so like you're not going to have the, you know, the experience

00:57:48   and the, the finesse of somebody who's doing it like 10 times a day. On the other hand,

00:57:53   you will care much more than they will. If you're the type of person who's getting a

00:57:55   screen protector because you can't send even a single scratch on your screen, have fun

00:57:59   in dealing with that single speck of dust that did get under there. I mean, you're not

00:58:03   wrong, but well, this is a problem for Casey in a week or two. It's not a problem for Casey

00:58:06   today. Uh, but yeah, grand scheme of things. Uh, I've really enjoyed this phone and for

00:58:12   no other reason, I think I would be all in because of USB-C and everything else was just

00:58:16   a bonus. You didn't even mention the iPhone playing iPhone 15. And I want to say that

00:58:20   I think this year is one of the rare cases where Apple seems to have gotten caught with

00:58:24   their pants down a little bit by the AI thing. They shipped a line of phones to 15 and the

00:58:28   15 pro seemingly without realizing that that 15 wouldn't be able to run next year's headlining

00:58:35   feature. They're going to ship, maybe they won't ship it by then because they're not

00:58:38   shipping Apple intelligence, but they could, they could have ended up shipping Apple intelligence

00:58:41   that wouldn't work on their latest non-pro phone if they had actually shipped Apple intelligence

00:58:45   before the new phones came out. Like it's, I think it's unprecedented for a one year

00:58:49   old phone not to be able to run the headlining feature of the next OS that came out after

00:58:56   it a year later. And I just have to think it's because they didn't think that, oh, we

00:59:00   can cheap out on the RAM on the 15. Well, it's a big deal. The iPhones got plenty of

00:59:03   RAM. We're well within limits blah, blah, blah. And here comes AI and LLMs using all

00:59:07   your RAM. I will look back on this line, the 15 and 50 pro and always remember it as the

00:59:12   year where the non-pro phone had this crippling disability that was, you know, that could

00:59:19   have been prevented with being a little bit more generous with RAM, but it wasn't. And

00:59:23   it put Apple in this strange, somewhat uncomfortable position of having to tell people who just

00:59:27   bought a brand new phone last year that, yeah, you can't run Apple intelligence.

00:59:31   I think that speaks to just how far ahead iPhone components are planned. Like, and how

00:59:38   recently relatively speaking Apple realized they had to get it on the LLM game. Because,

00:59:44   you know, the iPhone 15 non-pro components were probably a lock like what, two years

00:59:49   ago maybe? Like, you know, it's, we know they have pretty long timelines for a lot of that

00:59:53   stuff. And so they probably started Apple intelligence shortly after that was decided

01:00:00   or around the same time, maybe they didn't know yet when they started doing LLM research

01:00:05   and development. Maybe they didn't realize like, we're definitely going to need X gigs

01:00:09   of RAM to run this thing. You know, that was probably too early to know that. And a lot

01:00:14   of Apple's efforts over the last year or two, like they've actually open sourced some things

01:00:19   and published papers about compressing LLMs to fit in smaller amounts of RAM. They've

01:00:26   done a lot of work in the area. Why? We're seeing it now. This is why they care so much

01:00:31   about that.

01:00:32   Yeah, I think they are barely fitting it in the 8 gig phones. Like, it's been a lot of

01:00:37   hard work to get it to fit in the 8 gig phones. And you can argue whether they were, you know,

01:00:40   late to the game on LLM or because the lead time is so long they just couldn't help it.

01:00:44   But this is another side effect of always being stingy with RAM. It's the unforeseen

01:00:49   thing, right? It's like, we don't need this. Why would we ever give ourselves any kind

01:00:53   of buffer? Let's cut it as close as we possibly can, save every penny because why would we

01:00:59   give any excess RAM if we think the low end phone doesn't need that? We want to provide

01:01:04   product differentiation. And the answer is, you never know when something might come along

01:01:09   that makes your stinginess hurt you more than your stinginess is currently helping you.

01:01:13   Apple would probably argue, well, we're stingy 90% of the time and we only lose out on it

01:01:17   10% of the time, so it's still a win. But, you know, I still think that being that stingy

01:01:24   with RAM, like setting aside the AI thing, we've always said, when we talk about the

01:01:28   Macs selling them with too little RAM and having people upgrade or whatever, you want

01:01:32   to give your users a better experience. And in general, more RAM gives a better experience.

01:01:37   There are so many things more RAM does for you. Even on the 15 Pro, the fact that they

01:01:41   had to work so hard to get Apple intelligence into 8 gigs, that was their highest end phone.

01:01:46   Even on that one, they could have still provided differentiation and given the Pro 10 and the

01:01:51   non-Pro 8 instead of 8 and 6. Anyway, they seem to have snapped out of that with the

01:01:56   16s, which are rumored to all have the same amount of RAM, and the 17s are rumored to

01:01:59   all have even more RAM, so we'll see how this goes. But this is, you know, like I said,

01:02:04   I'm going to remember the 15, 15 Pro line with this one specific fact. Marco will remember

01:02:08   it for USB-C and I will remember it for the time that the non-Pro phone got left behind

01:02:13   prematurely.

01:02:14   Well, and to be clear, it isn't only about being cheap when they limit the amount of

01:02:17   RAM in phones. That is certainly part of it and that's probably not a trivial part. But

01:02:22   it's also about battery life. RAM takes power. Like just having a certain amount of RAM,

01:02:26   you have to be applying power to that part of the chip even if it's not using that RAM

01:02:32   for anything. Like even if it's, you know, marked as free by the OS, you're still powering

01:02:36   that chip to a certain base level. That's how DRAM works. So, and forgive me for experts

01:02:41   in the field if I'm dramatically oversimplifying or if there's a whole bunch of asterisks on

01:02:44   that now, there probably are. But in general, you don't want to put a whole bunch of RAM

01:02:48   into something that's as battery-contrained as a phone if you're not sure you're going

01:02:51   to use it because it does take battery.

01:02:54   No, but it's like, again, this is the Pro line, you know. You can give them a little

01:02:59   bit more which allows you to give the non-Pro line eight which apparently is okay, you know,

01:03:03   because the Pros got eight and their battery life is okay with an even hungrier SOC, right?

01:03:07   So the 15, the plain 15 would also have been fine with eight. Like you're right, it does

01:03:10   take more RAM but we're not asking for double. We're not asking double the RAM. Just a little

01:03:14   bit more. Just give yourself a little bit of headroom. Just don't be as stingy. You

01:03:17   can still be stingy but just not quite as stingy because you never know when that's

01:03:22   going to pay off.

01:03:23   All right.

01:03:24   All right. Apple Watch.

01:03:25   So, Apple Watch Series 9. I don't have a lot to say about the Series 9 except that I have

01:03:33   found the double tap gesture which was one of its new headlining features to be fairly

01:03:39   bad. I don't think it is fast enough or reliable enough to be useful. I have tried it over

01:03:46   the last year many times. My hit rate with getting it to be recognized is low and even

01:03:53   when it is recognized, it takes a decent amount of extra time that you have to be still having

01:03:58   the watch be like raised up and looking out so the screen stays on and then it shows a

01:04:03   little animation to confirm that it understood your tap. It just feels very slow and I have

01:04:11   just mostly resorted to nose tapping the way I always have if I have to be one handed to

01:04:15   dismiss something because it is just faster and literally more reliable. It is more reliable

01:04:20   for me to lift up the watch to my nose and tap it and hit the right spot on the screen

01:04:24   than trying the double tap finger gesture. So, I don't know if that's just me but I have

01:04:29   found generally the double tap is really not very useful.

01:04:33   Yeah, I mean I have a Series 8 and so this is going to be a very expensive September

01:04:39   for us because we are going watch and phone. We are on a two year plan on watches and a

01:04:44   one year plan on phones. I feel like my complaints about the watch are the same as they ever

01:04:53   were which is to say the battery life is just straight up trash at this point.

01:04:59   Really I don't find that. Mine is a lot younger obviously, it's a year younger but I find

01:05:04   the battery life on the Series 9 is great but I also didn't have any problems with the

01:05:08   Series 8.

01:05:09   Well that's the thing is I think a year worth of Apple Watch battery is fine in my personal

01:05:14   experience. Two years, not so fine. That's been a real bugbear for me to the point that

01:05:22   between Marco's friendly brow beating and also my friend in Richmond, Brad, just got

01:05:29   a month or two ago, got an Apple Watch Ultra 2 or whatever the current one is and he will

01:05:35   not shut up about how good the battery life is on this thing. And at this point I think

01:05:42   I am probably going to hold out until whenever the next Ultra update is. And if that's next

01:05:48   week perfect. That'd be preferred but if not I will try to hold out as long as I can and

01:05:53   if I can't I'll probably just commit to the existing one. But it's been so frustrating

01:05:57   and if I don't top off my watch at some point during the day it will typically die sometime

01:06:02   after dinner and I'm just sick of it. I'm just over it. Now also part of this is also

01:06:06   influenced by the fact that I have the little watch. I have the 40 millimeter or whatever

01:06:11   the little one is.

01:06:12   Yeah or 41 I think for you.

01:06:13   Yeah I forget what it is now or what it was in Series 8 but I'm just sick of it. I'm sick

01:06:17   of always having to worry about my watch's battery life and so next time it's going to

01:06:22   be an Ultra.

01:06:23   So I'll come back to that in a second. The only thing I wanted to say about the watch

01:06:27   Series 9 specifically is that they removed the option for titanium with the Series 9

01:06:36   and I wish they didn't and I hope for the Series 10 they bring back a titanium option

01:06:42   for the non-Ultra watch. It was a bit like the titanium edition watch was not that much

01:06:48   more money than a steel one. It was really nice. It was lighter. I think it looked more

01:06:53   refined. It had like a nice brushed finish. Like it looked really nice. It felt really

01:06:57   nice on the wrist. It was a way to have a little bit more subtle and a little bit lighter

01:07:02   watch than the steel without going down in quality on things like the crystal that you

01:07:06   have to do when you get the aluminum one. The aluminum one looks like aluminum. You

01:07:11   know it looks fine but it doesn't look nice. The steel and the titanium both look very

01:07:15   nice and the titanium I think was a little bit nicer of a look between the two and again

01:07:19   I think it felt better. Also Apple watches tend to function better the lighter they are.

01:07:24   The taptic engine is more feelable. It moves on your wrist better. It sets on your wrist

01:07:28   better so I really hope they bring back titanium as an option on the Series 10 or whatever

01:07:34   they're going to call it. Series X, Series 10, whatever.

01:07:36   Before you move on and if you'd rather table this for later we certainly can but I would

01:07:41   also be curious to hear what the status is of Adam's Apple Watch and I don't remember

01:07:45   what generation that is but we've been kicking around the idea of getting Declan one for

01:07:50   an upcoming birthday and I'd be curious to hear what your year or two on review is of

01:07:56   that.

01:07:58   The original one that we got him a few years back now was an SE, the first gen watch SE.

01:08:04   We replaced it a couple years back with I think a Series 5 or 6 that I'd gotten Amazon

01:08:11   refurbished or renewed or whatever they call it for fairly cheap. He doesn't wear it currently

01:08:17   anymore because the school banned them. I guess kids have figured out how to put notes

01:08:22   in your Apple Watch to cheat on tests so they banned them. So he hasn't worn it in a long

01:08:27   time. It's been sitting in a drawer. It's probably fairly dead now but anyway. For now

01:08:33   he's just not using a watch and I don't know when or if that will return but we'll find

01:08:37   out.

01:08:40   So going back to what I'm hoping for for the Series 10. So number one, titanium option.

01:08:47   And just for the record here I'm not talking about software at all right now. I think the

01:08:51   Apple Watch, the watch OS X redesign changed a lot of things. I still am not super sold

01:08:57   on some of the watch OS X changes and placements and buttons and gestures and things like that.

01:09:03   I'm still getting everything wrong all the time. I'm still pushing the wrong buttons or

01:09:05   swiping the wrong edge to do things that I didn't want to do but maybe that's just me.

01:09:10   And of course I always have opinions on watch faces. But going back to just the hardware,

01:09:15   I really hope again titanium option on the non-ultra Series. Please bring that back.

01:09:21   It was so nice. I'm also always hoping for, I guess this is kind of software, sorry. I

01:09:27   want display zoom on the Apple Watch. As you may know my vision is slowly getting worse

01:09:32   at close distances as I proceed through middle age. I use reading glasses for close up reading

01:09:37   of things sometimes. I'm not always wearing my reading glasses because I'm not always

01:09:42   reading. So I have found as my vision has gotten slowly worse at like short arm distance,

01:09:50   very small complications and very small text in complications like say the timer complication

01:09:56   which I use frequently is getting a little hard to read. Now iPhones have many different

01:10:02   accessibility technologies for font sizing and UI sizing and different visual accommodations.

01:10:09   The watch has almost none which is surprising. There is dynamic type on the watch which is

01:10:15   the global text size setting but it doesn't affect that many things on the watch. They

01:10:20   also on the phones have this thing called display zoom where that's the mode where when

01:10:24   you set up your phone, I don't know if it still does this on all phones, but during

01:10:27   that set up process it will ask you do you want things to be this size or this size and

01:10:33   what it does is basically scale the entire screen up to simulate the field of view of

01:10:40   the next size smaller phone that existed or exists. So if you have a pro max and you pick

01:10:47   that option it will basically just blow up the screen dimensions of a pro into the pro

01:10:53   max screen so you get everything scaled up perfectly the same way you would do like a

01:10:57   resolution change on a monitor on a computer. I want the watch to get that ability so that

01:11:03   it can scale up everything, complications, the faces, everything when you have a larger

01:11:09   model watch to simulate the screen size of a smaller model watch blown up to its new

01:11:15   size. I think that would be a great visual accommodation for people whose close-up vision

01:11:20   is not that good or whose vision in general is not that good because again dynamic text

01:11:25   on the watch is just not very well supported, doesn't go very far and doesn't include

01:11:30   almost anything on the watch face. So I would love to see that as an option. Again that

01:11:35   is a software thing but maybe it's requiring a certain GPU or whatever and of course the

01:11:40   rumored larger screens that might be coming might make that easier to pull off and make

01:11:45   it better of a feature. Before we get to the screens I'll get there but I'm hoping

01:11:52   they found a way to keep the blood oxygen sensor. This is not a sensor I use frequently

01:11:55   but it's nice to have it and we've had it and I think whatever they need to work out

01:11:59   with Massimo to license that tech, that patent, I think they should just do it.

01:12:03   Yeah that is true. I am going to be really annoyed just in principle if the hardware

01:12:10   at least for the blood oxygen sensor is not on whatever these new watches are. I'll

01:12:16   be lightly annoyed if it remains disabled which I expect it to but I'll be really

01:12:21   annoyed if it's incapable, you know if this patent dispute ever gets fixed, if it's

01:12:25   incapable of doing any testing or measuring that's going to really chat my butt.

01:12:29   Yeah, so again it's a minor feature, it's not going to be the end of the world if I

01:12:33   lose it but I just don't want to lose it like over Apple being BSE about patent licensing

01:12:39   and I understand we all hate patents and they tried so hard but you know you lost, let's

01:12:44   move on. The only other thing I'll get to for the hardware before we get to the screens

01:12:49   is I really really hope that the Apple Watch Series 10 supports Qi charging finally. Qi

01:12:57   2 as a standard I believe accommodates small enough devices that I believe the Apple Watch

01:13:04   could be charged via Qi 2 if the watch wanted to support it. So I'm hoping, because again

01:13:10   like going back to our charging delights and paper cuts earlier with USB-C, I have now

01:13:18   one cable and one port for everything except the Apple Watch and so yeah you know you can

01:13:24   get like combo chargers that have like a special Apple Watch pad off to the side but you know

01:13:29   it's much more common, batteries and chargers and stuff that just have a Qi pad and USB-C

01:13:34   holes so I would love to just have Qi support. Let me buy a battery from Anker or whatever

01:13:40   on Amazon that has a USB-C output and a standard Qi pad and then I can put whatever I want

01:13:46   there. An AirPods case, a second phone or an Apple Watch while traveling, that would

01:13:51   be really nice and again I think Qi 2 has added what is necessary to make that work

01:13:57   so I'm hoping for that. Now about the screen sizes on the watch, there's been all these

01:14:03   rumors that the watch regular series is growing, that there is going to be you know that basically

01:14:11   the current small version which I believe is 41mm or 42mm, that is going to go away

01:14:16   and it's going to basically like that both of them are going to be going up in size by

01:14:20   a decent amount. I think this is going to be a good move overall. You know we've said

01:14:27   over time that Apple has done a really good job satisfying the market for smaller watches

01:14:32   way better than most of the smart watch makers have ever achieved it but watch fashion and

01:14:39   the smart watch market have changed since the Apple Watch was introduced 10 years ago

01:14:44   and this happens. Like in the watch world the sizing of how big like a standard and

01:14:52   watches historically were very gendered so there were like certain sizes of like alright

01:14:56   women's watches are going to be this size range for the most part and women's watches

01:14:59   are going to be this size range. Fortunately in the era of smart watches first of all a

01:15:04   lot of the gendering has gone away to the point where now like you know you don't if

01:15:09   you buy the small watch people don't say that's the women's version like it's just the small

01:15:12   watch and the big one women can wear it and no one's going to say you're wearing a man's

01:15:16   watch like thank god we've gotten rid of all that you know BS. Also since the smart watch

01:15:21   era has really taken off over the last decade demand for large watches has gone up and which

01:15:28   is funny because in the regular watch world like the mechanical watch world watches had

01:15:33   gotten very big then they kind of started going back a little bit they're actually getting

01:15:37   a little bit smaller now but smart watches are going the other way. Part of the reason

01:15:42   so many people bought the Apple Watch Ultra is not because they were going to be climbing

01:15:45   a mountain and then diving into 200 meters of water like it's because they liked the

01:15:50   bigger look and that's for both functional reasons yes it has you know better battery

01:15:55   life bigger screen that's great for smart watches but also big watches are just in fashion

01:16:00   right now. Really huge smart watches are in style and most people that I see are not wearing

01:16:07   the small one anymore. I see a lot of people of a lot of different sizes and ages and I

01:16:12   don't see many people choosing that smaller Apple Watch anymore. Meanwhile if you look

01:16:18   at the smart watch market the the current quote big series 9 that's the one I wear that's

01:16:24   someone I think Casey probably should be wearing the big one relative to other smart watches

01:16:31   in the market is actually fairly medium-sized. Many other smart watches in the market are

01:16:35   actually significantly bigger. What the Ultra's success I think showed Apple and showed the

01:16:40   market is is that yes a lot of people choose it because of those technical factors but

01:16:45   a lot of people also just like big watches. Big watches are in especially smart watch

01:16:51   big big smart watches that is just in fashion right now. So if Apple is truly getting rid

01:16:56   of the smallest size and making them both bigger I think that's not because they're

01:17:02   abandoning the market for small watches I bet it's more because the market abandoned

01:17:06   theirs the market probably moved on and has not been buying the small watch very much

01:17:11   at all. And I think people of all wrist sizes have been choosing bigger smart watches over

01:17:17   the last few years way more than they used to. So I think this is just Apple responding

01:17:21   to the market and wanting to serve where the demand actually is. They did the same thing

01:17:26   with phones and phone sizes growing over time this is that they're doing the same thing

01:17:30   with the watch. I think they're gonna raise the sizes of both of them and everybody will

01:17:36   complain about it for about a week and then we'll try them and be like oh this is nicer

01:17:40   yep and then it'll be fine and people will buy them like crazy especially the biggest

01:17:45   one way more than we think they will. So I think this is gonna be totally fine if they

01:17:50   increase the sizes of the watches a little bit we'll all get used to it and we'll be

01:17:53   fine.

01:17:54   All right let's do at least a little bit of Ask ATP if we can. PG&E Delenda Est. I love

01:18:00   people who provide these kooky usernames and no real names. Anyways Marco it's not even

01:18:05   Halloween for goodness sakes. Marco how hard is it to maintain server compatibility with

01:18:09   clients that are still going to be on the last iOS 16 or below builds of Overcast? Are

01:18:14   you doing that thing I'm sure there's a term for it are you doing that thing where

01:18:17   it's like something along the lines of API.overcast.fm/2/ you know endpoints? Okay. Yeah exactly. Did

01:18:23   I just ruin your answer then I'm sorry. No well so but well that is a good question though

01:18:28   because like at some point I do end support for the really old API protocols. How hard

01:18:34   it is to maintain server compatibility in general with old clients if you you know just

01:18:39   make a make a new copy of your API you know controller or functions or whatever and just

01:18:43   call this one like I'm currently on version 6. It's really not that bad. The main problem

01:18:48   comes when you have to do like significant changes to things like the server side schema

01:18:55   like how how your data is stored. I'm like so do you do you like building compatibility

01:18:59   layers how long do you keep those over time do certain problems occur when older versions

01:19:05   of the app sync that may be like clobber changes from the new versions and do you accommodate

01:19:09   that. Over time that complexity grows and how much you want to maintain it for a decreasing

01:19:15   number of clients eventually that trade-off becomes not worth it and you say all right

01:19:19   you know what you know in a month I'm going to cut off support for iOS 12 or whatever.

01:19:25   The downside of doing that of course is you know Overcast is a server dependent app and

01:19:29   so if the servers stop supporting a certain client version that version of the app does

01:19:35   not work anymore. It will not get new updates you cannot add new podcast you cannot download

01:19:39   new podcast like it you can't even log in like it's it will totally break that client

01:19:43   so I try not to do that until those clients are very old. In this case you know the the

01:19:49   the specifics of the new API for the rewrite the protocol with which the clients speak

01:19:57   to the server and vice versa has totally changed. It's way lighter on the servers it's way

01:20:03   more efficient the old protocol was very hard on the servers and so you would think I would

01:20:08   have a pretty substantial incentive to end support soon for the old ones but because

01:20:15   the numbers drop off so fast for like how like there's not like in in you know a month

01:20:20   or two there's going to be a big chunk of those iOS 16 only people that fall off because

01:20:25   they replace their phones. Even though the old protocol is way less efficient and way

01:20:29   harder on the servers I don't have much incentive to end its support anytime soon because it's

01:20:34   going to be such a tiny percentage of the user base that's going to be holding on to

01:20:37   it. So that'll probably be supported for a while you know we're talking probably years

01:20:43   multiple years because again there's just there's not much reason to end it yet eventually

01:20:47   there will be but the protocol is mostly what has changed not the data storage layer and

01:20:54   some of the things I'm doing I'm trying over time to push more of the logic that would

01:21:00   that was previously server-side logic push more of it to the clients where possible in

01:21:05   part just to lighten the load on the servers and in part because sometimes that's just

01:21:08   way easier to do on the client or I can offer better features if I do a client-side. So

01:21:12   for instance the the current test flight build I have fixed a problem with the episode limit

01:21:20   not being enforced. I've had this option forever of like you know you can you can limit a podcast

01:21:24   only keep the latest you know one or two or five episodes of that podcast. This feature

01:21:31   if I was launching a new podcast out today I would never offer this feature. It is so

01:21:36   tricky and problematic and that has been enforced server-side to date. This new test flight

01:21:42   build enforces a client-side and that's part of why it's fixed for a lot of people because

01:21:47   doing it server-side because there's all sorts of differences I'll get into a very brief

01:21:52   diversion here. The problem is the way the servers servers have to deal with data in

01:21:58   very different ways they have to deal with scale in very different ways. So when you

01:22:03   as a user when you subscribe to a podcast the what you see suppose you subscribe to

01:22:08   a new podcast that has a thousand episodes in it back in its feed you subscribe you now

01:22:12   have in your app a thousand episodes that you don't have any history with and then a

01:22:18   new one comes out and maybe you play that one. Well to your to your client that's a

01:22:23   thousand and one rows in a table most of which have all zeros in them and then you know you

01:22:28   have then that latest one you can mark that as your progress or your plate or whatever.

01:22:33   On the server if I added a thousand rows to the table that keeps track of everyone's status

01:22:40   of episodes every time someone subscribed to a podcast at a thousand episodes it would

01:22:45   take way more space and be way heavier and way more expensive to host and you know more

01:22:50   servers larger backups like everything data size affects cost substantially so that would

01:22:56   be very bad. So on the on the server I do tricks like when you subscribe to a show I

01:23:03   assume that the state of everything that precedes your subscription in that in that feed is

01:23:10   it's deleted but not played like it's just that's the default state of everything that

01:23:13   precedes your subscription to a new podcast if you then go back and listen to an old one

01:23:18   that of course I insert that row but I have this these all these optimizations in place

01:23:23   like okay I'm not going to add all thousand of those as new rows to this table because

01:23:27   again that would blow up everything. That logic wreaks havoc with episode limiting and

01:23:32   it's been so tricky to get it right server side. Couple years ago I even let people opt

01:23:38   into a beta of a new way to handle it because I thought I finally had nailed it and taken

01:23:43   care of all those cases and all the edges and all the weirdness that somehow would still

01:23:48   be efficient and would still not store nearly as much as it had to I tried so many different

01:23:52   ways to do this and I never got it quite right. So with the new way that the new app talks

01:23:59   to the servers I've developed yet more issues with doing that server side so what I'm going

01:24:05   to do is once this version of this app is reasonably out there that does it all client

01:24:11   side because again client side it's way easier to do the client has no I don't care if I

01:24:15   take another five kilobytes on your phone so the client can have a thousand rows in

01:24:22   the database when you subscribe to a feed because it's just keeping it locally it doesn't

01:24:26   I don't care it's a SQLite database it's super light so the client can do perfect limiting

01:24:31   because it has perfect information whereas the server is simulating perfect information

01:24:35   with a bunch of optimizations. So anyway so what I plan to do is move that logic entirely

01:24:40   to the client with the next release and then over time eventually tell the server to stop

01:24:45   even trying to do that to stop enforcing episode limits at all because that will make a lot

01:24:49   of things easier it'll reduce this bug potential in the app and you don't want the server trying

01:24:53   to do it at the same time the app is doing it so that's kind of my long term plan here

01:24:57   have the server stop enforcing that completely when that happens if you are still say on

01:25:03   an old client if all of your overcast devices that you're logged into if none of them have

01:25:07   the new version that does this your episode limits will just slowly increase and like

01:25:12   things won't get automatically deleted once they pass that limit and so things like that

01:25:18   like kind of weird drift will start happening if you're still using a very old version of

01:25:22   the API that's another reason why like eventually it does make sense to retire them because

01:25:26   if they start like producing weird conditions or like things that could cause bugs for other

01:25:31   clients you know you gotta retire them then or find a way to limit them but for the most

01:25:36   part because I'm moving more towards more stuff happening on the client and the server

01:25:42   side feature set is fairly fixed I don't intend to really do much more server side unless

01:25:49   we've into things like you know transcriptions but that's that's a whole other bag of worms

01:25:54   because of all that I expect the iOS 16 API to still work for a long time to answer your

01:25:59   question in a very long way.

01:26:01   Mark Robinson writes when a podcast says follow us on Apple podcasts it really helps the show

01:26:06   does listening through overcast do that as well does Apple register that follow in a

01:26:09   way that counts and helps the show also how does it actually help the show?

01:26:14   listening through overcast doesn't do anything to affect Apple podcasts or its rankings because

01:26:18   Apple podcast does not know that you're listening in overcast if you subscribe to a podcast

01:26:23   in Apple podcasts Apple does register that in some way and it does help the show it helps

01:26:30   the show mainly in ranking it higher and possibly helping it get on certain top lists or ranked

01:26:36   lists that are that are occasionally used for discovery in Apple podcasts over time

01:26:40   I think they're using this less in the sense that they are they're doing more kind of you

01:26:45   know things you might like type of recommendations rather than top list of new new and noteworthy

01:26:50   you know this week or whatever so I think this is mattering less over time but they

01:26:55   basically they they historically have used new follows as a strong signal but I think

01:27:01   possibly at some times I think that was actually the only signal that would feed into like

01:27:06   what shows up on their top hot list today it is a pretty good signal overall like how

01:27:12   many new follows the show getting and and for the record I actually try not to have

01:27:17   those kind of metrics in overcast that are global like that because it tends to reinforce

01:27:24   like the rich get richer so I've kind of I've moved away from most of those over time but

01:27:31   I but that is as far as I know that is still part of how Apple podcasts does recommendations

01:27:36   rankings alright thank you to our sponsor this week Squarespace thanks to our members

01:27:41   who support us directly you can join us atb.fm/join one of the member perks is ATP overtime a

01:27:47   bonus topic every week just for members this week's overtime we're talking about AI angst

01:27:54   there is some some tricky things going on with the AI world including author suing anthropic

01:28:01   and some drama over at NaNoWriMo where you're talking about both those things in ATP overtime

01:28:06   you can join to listen atb.fm/join thanks everybody we'll talk to you next week

01:28:11   now the show is over they didn't even mean to begin because it was accidental

01:28:20   it was accidental John didn't do any research Marco and Casey wouldn't let him because it was

01:28:30   accidental it was accidental and you can find the show notes at ATP.fm and if you're into Mastodon

01:28:42   you can follow them at c-a-s-e-y-l-i-s-s so that's Casey Lis m-a-r-c-o-a-r-m-n-t Marco Arman s-i-r-a-c-u-s-a-s-i-r-a-c-u-s-a it's accidental, it's accidental, they didn't mean too accidental, accidental.

01:29:09   Tech Podcast, so long.

01:29:14   I'm not having a good time in neutral land right now battery fault yes so remember when that battery

01:29:25   fault message popped up about a about a month ago oh I do and I can't believe you haven't gotten the

01:29:30   car serviced yet and I said at the time I I'll get it serviced as soon as I'm back off the beach for

01:29:36   the you know for the school year it's gonna be a pain in the butt and go you know driving all the

01:29:40   way to Brooklyn for the Rivian service center so I'm gonna send you two photos in a sequence here

01:29:47   into the slack group and I'll try to put them as chapter I say that this this this whole deal like

01:29:51   with EVs we don't have an established culture the way we do with internal combustion engine cars

01:29:58   about the various level of severity of things that can happen and I know the culture is not

01:30:04   consistent you'll know people who drive their car with a check engine light on forever and ever but

01:30:08   most people who know something about cars if the check engine light comes on it's a sign that you

01:30:13   should do something not like I'll do it in a few I'll look at it in a few months it's probably

01:30:17   fine maybe it's fine or maybe your engines about to blow up right whereas with EVs they all have

01:30:21   their own error messages their own things and there's no sort of universal equivalent of like

01:30:25   you know a light on the dashboard that we know these ones are serious you know oil pressure

01:30:31   drops to zero stop the car you know I mean like things that I know about internal combustion with

01:30:35   EVs it's like I don't know is that bad is a battery fault bad right and especially a battery fault

01:30:41   that only shows up when doing DC fast charging on a highway and then I reboot the car a couple times

01:30:45   and it doesn't show up anymore like okay I guess it's fixed right like you don't you don't you don't

01:30:50   have any like like a frame of reference for how how seriously should I take this since I last

01:30:55   reported on that I have developed a few additional problems I know so I mentioned you know the the

01:31:01   dramatically increased wind noise since getting the body shop to replace the side which admittedly

01:31:06   that's probably the body shops fault but there was wind noise before they did their work also

01:31:09   there was just a little bit less of it but so you know wind noise I got to get them to fix that I

01:31:14   had an increasing incidence of what seems like the auto steer system crashing no not literally

01:31:23   thank God but I guess poor choice of words but the auto steer sometimes will just turn off and

01:31:29   make a bunch of noise and it will say highway assist system failure that sounds like it crashed

01:31:37   to me but or some sensor broke so I have to have them look at that also I can no longer move the

01:31:45   seat of the car the driver's seat does not move unless I am switching between the two profiles

01:31:53   the tip profile and the me profile hope you hope you're happy with the profiles yeah it will not

01:31:58   move like none of the adjustments work it is just stuck like it refuses any other adjustment besides

01:32:04   the profile switches so if I wanted to like you know I only put it up a little bit nope can't do

01:32:08   that if anybody else needs to drive my car too bad if I need to move the seat back to like to

01:32:12   get something out from under it nope too bad which to me that might that's actually probably

01:32:18   like a safety issue that I should probably get fixed pretty immediately and finally I barely

01:32:27   have air conditioning the air conditioning it has almost completely gone out it blows very weak air

01:32:33   and goes through lots of times when it the fam will just like kind of slow down and it'll blow

01:32:39   totally hot air and then it'll go back eventually and blow slightly cold air but it's bad like today

01:32:47   was only in the high 70s and it couldn't keep up it was not a hot day and it could not keep up and

01:32:54   it was blowing warm air most of the time so the air conditioning I basically have no air conditioning

01:32:59   or I have almost no air conditioning so I created a support ticket in there and you know the way you

01:33:05   get service from Rivian is you go to their app and you like report your problems you can attach

01:33:10   photos and whatever else so I created the support ticket with all these issues I do find it very

01:33:15   funny that apparently when you add five issues to a ticket it says at the bottom you've reached

01:33:22   the max number of issues please submit these and start a new request so my car says otherwise I

01:33:28   right so I've reached the maximum number of problems with my Rivian that I can put in one

01:33:33   on one service request so I thought okay well you know maybe I maybe I get in the service center

01:33:39   within the next couple of weeks you know get get this done I have I'm a little scared because I

01:33:44   have heard that this level three charging battery problem I've found a couple of forum threads people

01:33:50   said it took them like months to figure it out so I'm not loving that but we haven't gotten there

01:33:55   and we'll see what happens so okay maybe I can get in the service center you know again maybe a week

01:34:00   or two there was the next screen which I'll send you now these were the first available appointments

01:34:06   oh no oh that's not good at all the first available Rivian appointment in my entire region of New York

01:34:17   is ten weeks from now November 13th that's that's undesirable yes so and and I checked like there

01:34:30   there's a couple other like Rivian service centers that are like you know a hundred months and it's

01:34:35   no better it's the same I like they're all out to November you should check Richmond I bet there's

01:34:40   not a lot here I am not happy right now like I I'm starting to fall out of love with owning a first

01:34:53   version car rapidly and I knew when I bought it I'm like this is the first version of the R1s maybe

01:35:00   I'll have some problems I don't think I fully appreciated how much this sucks that I now feel

01:35:07   like my car is unreliable in some pretty key areas and is losing things like air conditioning like I

01:35:14   pretty sure we solved that problem a long time ago but no air conditioning also broken as well as the

01:35:21   seat being too smart to move I am really tired of beta testing cars whatever my next car is I think

01:35:29   it's first of all I think it might be sooner than I expect but second of all I think I just want to

01:35:35   get something from a regular car company again like an established car company that like I'm just

01:35:39   I'm tired of the the flux and I think even though I love the features of this car in a lot of other

01:35:46   ways this rapidly erases those gains in my head like having to deal with service especially dealing

01:35:53   with bad service like what this is turning out to be to make a good car ownership experience yeah

01:35:59   the car needs to be good it also needs to have almost no problems during ownership especially

01:36:04   when they're new they really this car is a year old it should not be having any of these problems

01:36:08   let alone all of these problems after one year a car mostly shouldn't have problems in its first

01:36:13   few years besides the basics of like you know maintain the very basics of the car like the

01:36:18   brakes and the windshield wipers and stuff like that in the tires and that that should be all you

01:36:21   have to do for a car in the first couple of years and so you shouldn't have these problems at all

01:36:26   but if you do have problems you need the service and servicing infrastructure to be there and to be

01:36:30   near you like this is already you know having to drive to Brooklyn like it's driving to the

01:36:35   service center will take me an hour and a half on a good day like and and and I'm and I'm in like the

01:36:39   worst part of Brooklyn where there's nothing around it's all warehouses and it's terrible

01:36:44   and like God knows how many times I'm going to have to do that too so it's already like a rough

01:36:49   service situation and you know to to have service then be backed all the way out ten weeks when you

01:36:55   when you ask for it like that's I I'm going back to a regular car company like I can't but what

01:37:02   would you bought like no argument and and I am disappointed by this just peripherally because

01:37:07   you were so in love with that car when you first got it yes and as much as I will always and forever

01:37:13   make fun of the god-awful color choice you made like it was is a great car but I don't think you

01:37:19   have a lot of really good options especially for a battery electric vehicle now if you wanted to go

01:37:24   back to like a Range Rover Land Cruiser whatever the hell it was you had before then then maybe

01:37:29   but if you're trying to go battery electric what could you possibly get I was gonna say when when

01:37:34   the Land Rover is the more reliable option you know you're in trouble yeah for real I think I'd be

01:37:39   looking probably at like probably BMW again or maybe even Polestar but that's that's also a

01:37:45   little bit too new I think I think I would have the same problems with Polestar but what what of

01:37:49   these cars like I don't think there's anything battery electric that either these companies sell

01:37:53   that would that would work for the beach right I'm going to shortly stop needing that because I'm

01:37:58   going to shortly stop qualifying for my permit and lose the permit that's a bummer it is getting

01:38:04   regular cars then you don't have to get these stupid SUVs anymore that's right right so I I

01:38:09   that's why I like I might be in the market you know maybe in six months or something I might be

01:38:13   in the market for something that is smaller and or at least like you know one of the options I

01:38:21   looking at the BMW ix which I think is actually a very attractive option not it's not not an

01:38:25   attractive vehicle but it is it's a very attractive option looking at that looking at you know there's

01:38:31   you know Hyundai stuff there's no Volvo stuff there's there's a bunch of things many of them

01:38:37   have the first year problem or like the first couple of years problem and again I just I I think

01:38:42   I'd be looking at maybe something a little more established the really sad thing is I really would

01:38:48   not I don't think buy a Tesla right now like for lots of political reasons that just feels very bad

01:38:53   to me but I see why people do because when you look at the numbers of just like how much range

01:38:59   does it offer and then what are you paying to get that car Tesla is still way ahead of everybody

01:39:07   like their cars get such longer range than almost everyone except Lucid they claim they claim longer

01:39:14   range but they're they're also one of the most distant from their claims so I would if you're

01:39:19   just looking at this the still but I had Tesla's yeah they're they're a little BS you know but

01:39:23   that they're their cars out there now that are claiming less than Tesla they just get the same

01:39:27   range right so you can't go by the numbers that are on the package sure but yeah I think I'm gonna

01:39:33   like well let me see I mean let me see what happened with with the Rivian but like I like I

01:39:39   feel like I can't depend on it take like I'm gonna take a long trip soon and I feel like can I

01:39:44   dependent to get there I'm gonna get there without air conditioning but you know which is it's already

01:39:49   a problem and I probably can't have any other place service it because it's probably all special

01:39:54   and proprietary and like so like I can anybody else replace the air conditioning whatever I

01:39:58   probably not so like I don't know this is why like I'm getting I'm falling off the Rivian train

01:40:04   really fast right now because it like I'm having all these problems pile up over the last couple

01:40:08   of months that are now going to be difficult to get fixed like that's not not happy you got to

01:40:14   wait to get all this fixed before you can even like trade in or resell this thing probably too

01:40:17   well I wouldn't do a private sale I would do like you know a dealer thing or something but yeah I

01:40:28   don't know I anyway so there might be some turbulence there in the next few months we'll

01:40:32   see hopefully hopefully I can last longer than that I'm really sorry to hear that in what you

01:40:37   said a moment ago that you're not sure if it can reliably get you to your destination yeah because

01:40:42   it almost didn't I was almost stranded on the last trip I took yeah no argument the moment any of my

01:40:48   cars have gotten to that point where it's not it's no longer an inconvenience but a genuine concern

01:40:53   that you might not make it the moment that happens I'm out I need a new car in or even if it's a new

01:41:01   used car that's fine but I need something different because I cannot well maybe cannot as bit

01:41:07   dramatic but I refuse to be in a situation that if I need to get somewhere in my car I am rolling

01:41:13   the dice with more than you know you always are as to whether or not I'll actually get there and

01:41:18   at that point I'm out so if you're me you're already looking for something new and it doesn't

01:41:23   even matter if you can get this into a service center before November it's it's already it the

01:41:28   nails in the coffin you're done honestly I mean unfortunately like if that happens I got the early

01:41:33   pre-order pricing on it so like I actually like I looked up like you know roughly what the resale

01:41:37   value of it would be and like I would not be losing that much at all from what I paid a year

01:41:41   ago so it actually would not be that bad but honestly I'm thinking that direction because

01:41:45   like like I saw I'm drunk in three days I'm driving a few hundred miles upstate I can't

01:41:52   really take Tiff's i3 conveniently also she needs it like she's not coming I'm driving to go see

01:41:57   goose in concert so there's no way Tiff's going to that anyway so I'm driving a few hundred miles in

01:42:04   three days and I need my car to work and that's like to already know that okay I'm not gonna have

01:42:10   any air conditioning probably on the trip that's that sucks enough but like to not even know like

01:42:15   when I have to plug in somewhere like am I is it gonna charge maybe is something else gonna go

01:42:20   wrong with it maybe like I I don't know I'm I'm feeling very bad about this right now yeah you

01:42:26   know honestly if it were me there is no question I would be going and renting a car and I know it

01:42:33   I thought about that I might do I know it turns your stomach to think about well probably renting

01:42:38   a car but I know it turns your stomach to consider a gasoline automobile but it is okay to slum it

01:42:44   with us regular humans for the purpose of one weekend that's 100% what I would do one of the

01:42:49   one of the latest Honda hybrids I think you might enjoy those because Honda finally switched to the

01:42:55   system where basically the gasoline engine is charging the battery and the batteries running

01:42:59   the electric motor that turns the wheels most of the time and that will be a more familiar

01:43:04   experience to you oh it feels like a not very fast EV most of the time with some additional

01:43:09   noise that I don't understand you might like it why would I want that because it'll be reliable

01:43:14   and it'll get you there and it'll get better mileage than a plain old gas car you have 15

01:43:19   by 50 miles per gallon in a Honda that you can get fixed anywhere that will get you to your

01:43:23   destination no matter what I don't think you need to buy anything but I do think you need to rent

01:43:27   something for this trip to go see goose that's honestly I was I'm thinking about renting something

01:43:31   but like that to rent a car for it's you know I'm gonna be gone for like three four days it's that's

01:43:36   like you know six hundred dollars I'm like it's it's not a small amount of money it no it's not

01:43:41   that bad at all we were in New York it might be well okay that's fair we rented a minivan for a

01:43:45   week and I think it was like three or four hundred bucks and that was a week and it was unlimited

01:43:50   miles etc etc now granted we are in Podunk Richmond Virginia we are not in effectively New York City

01:43:56   but I think it'd be more affordable than you expect if you're willing to slum it with a regular human

01:44:00   car rather than some like Tesla or some other weirdo be EV or something like that yeah you do

01:44:07   obviously you do you you're you're a grown-up you're a grown-ass man but that's what I would do

01:44:11   I think like you know I certainly feel like a fool I felt like a fool like you know driving around a

01:44:16   dented truck for you know a few months or whatever or weeks whatever it was I would feel extra

01:44:22   foolish renting a car because I can't trust mine to drive a few hundred miles reliably and no I

01:44:27   wouldn't feel foolish about that personally I get what you're saying and I think foolish is not the

01:44:33   word I would use I would feel dejected that it's gotten to this point feel foolish at all you're

01:44:38   doing you're doing what you can to make what is what should be an enjoyable weekend enjoyable and

01:44:43   I love you like a brother well no in a better way than that I love you but I don't think it's a far

01:44:50   stretch for you to throw money to fix it to throw money at a problem to fix it so I think this is

01:44:55   right in your wheelhouse this is what I would do yeah but what's it then like when I have to drive

01:44:59   to Thanksgiving in you know about 11 weeks what's future Marcos problem and then Christmas after

01:45:06   that and like I need my car to work I need like I can't I'm so I'm like I'm unreasonably angry at

01:45:15   this review experience right now I think I'm I'm not doing you favors because I'm wholeheartedly

01:45:20   in agreement with you it's time to sell the car like unless you can get it fixed by some miracle

01:45:25   in the next week or two and you don't have a series of further problems it's time to sell the

01:45:29   car full stop like I hate that I hate that that's the case because I was there with you I saw with

01:45:36   my eyes how happy that car made you it's even after I broke it for the first of what turned out

01:45:41   to be many times I saw how happy that car made you it does not give me pleasure to say this to you

01:45:47   this is not the normal like ATP ribbing like I genuinely think is your friend you need to sell

01:45:52   that car because it is it is forever tainted it has its scarlet letter it is forever tainted in

01:45:57   you and I don't blame you I don't blame you at all you can always get version two of that car

01:46:01   where they consolidated the 17 control units down to two or whatever no that's true too it's

01:46:06   it's an option maybe the colors are so much worse now I'm coming back to ATP ribbing are they really

01:46:14   worse Marco are they really all right well I'm sorry please keep us updated with how this turns

01:46:20   out both in a friendly way and because I think it'll be good for the show way yeah that's main

01:46:24   reason you should try to take the Rivian because whatever happens that'll be a good story

01:46:28   [BLANK_AUDIO]