0:00:00All right, I'm recording from, what the hell is this, Sonoma, Sequoia. There we go, Sequoia.
0:00:04I've been doing that for a little while now.
0:00:07Yeah, is it okay? Like, I just installed it today.
0:00:10Yeah, I upgraded on day one, so I've done all the episodes since then.
0:00:13I've heard absolutely nothing about it from anybody, so I guess it's fine?
0:00:17No news is good news, although you're gonna hear more about it in the show today.
0:00:21Uh-oh. Did I make a mistake?
0:00:24No, it's fine.
0:00:24Although, actually, I don't know if we have a better time to bring this up,
0:00:27and I was thinking about this literally like half an hour ago,
0:00:29and so I'll just bring it up now. I am really, really enjoying, what is the official term for it?
0:00:34iPhone mirroring. I was gonna say iPhone remote control, but iPhone mirroring.
0:00:38I used it all the time at first, I think in no small part because it was new and fun and fancy,
0:00:42but it is really convenient to be able to effectively, and I don't think this is literal,
0:00:47but effectively, VNC into your phone and control it from your Mac.
0:00:52And it seems to do a pretty good job of, like, mirroring the clipboard and stuff like that.
0:00:56The one thing that drives me bananas about it is that all of the different gestures that I've
0:01:02trained for the iOS simulator are not the same. So as an example, to scroll in the iOS simulator,
0:01:09you have to click and drag, whereas in this, you scroll. And Command+Shift+H in the iOS simulator
0:01:17is hit the home button, and in this, it's Command+1 of all things, which, like, fine,
0:01:23it's an easier gesture, but it is so wildly different than what we're used to.
0:01:27Yeah. So as an iOS developer, it's kind of a pain in the butt, but in every other way,
0:01:33it is freaking great. And it'll even pull through audio, if I'm not mistaken. I've only done that,
0:01:37like, once or twice. But, you know, I genuinely, I'm not just saying this because you're sitting
0:01:42right here, Marco. I genuinely think that the overcast Mac OS app, as long as you're running
0:01:47on an Apple Silicon Mac, hi, John, is actually pretty good. But if you don't fancy that, or for
0:01:53some reason you can't install it on, like, your work computer or whatever, but you can do the
0:01:56iPhone mirroring thing, you can just pull the audio right through and use overcast on your iPhone,
0:02:00even though it's connecting, you know, it's sending the audio through your Mac. It is
0:02:04really well done, and I've been really impressed with it, and I don't think we had talked about it
0:02:07yet on the show. Because I, honestly, I haven't even used it yet, so I wouldn't have said anything
0:02:11about it. John doesn't use iPhones, so he wouldn't have said anything about it. We did, we did talk
0:02:16about it, although, actually, maybe it was rectifs. We were talking about using it to rearrange stuff.
0:02:19That was rectifs, I believe. Yeah, all right, anyway, I have used it. Yeah, did you know that
0:02:23iPhone mirroring works on Intel Macs? I'm actually a little bit surprised. I really honestly am.
0:02:28I mean, but that's good, like, if you want to use overcast on your Intel Mac, that's how you do it.
0:02:31That's true, actually. I didn't even think about that. Yeah, yeah. You know, there's a website,
0:02:34too, I hear. There is an overcast website, allegedly. Maybe not last for long, but it's there.
0:02:44We were discussing a couple of notebook LM podcasts, one of which was a regurgitation
0:02:50of one of your posts, John, one of which was a semi-regurgitation of your pasta recipe,
0:02:56which I saw a handful of people ask for, which I gotta chuckle out of. But apparently, we may or
0:03:02may not have messed something up. Can you explain what's going on here, please? Regurgitation is
0:03:06actually a good word. I'll get to that in a second. Many people pointed out that one of the things I
0:03:10was complaining about, the generated podcast, that it didn't mention a specific example
0:03:15from my article. It did mention it. Basically, I totally missed when it mentioned it because it was
0:03:20at the very beginning and I was too busy snarking about something else. But the other reason I missed
0:03:24it is that it mentioned it but then used it as, like, it was the mention of, like, emailing the
0:03:29artist to do something. It uses it as an example of the person who created it maintaining the
0:03:34copyright, right, so the artist creates it, they have the copyright for themselves, when I expected
0:03:38them to use it as I did as an example of transferring the copyright in exchange for payment.
0:03:43So I apologize to the Notebook LM podcast for missing their mention of that at the very top
0:03:49because I was too busy snarking about something else. But do you think it has follow-up? Yeah,
0:03:55that's one place we've definitely got them beat. There's not going to be a follow-up podcast unless
0:03:58you specifically spoon-feed it to them. But Casey's word that he used, and I'm glad he used that
0:04:02because I couldn't think of a good word for it. I was trying to think before the show started how I
0:04:06should describe this. The more I thought about and discussed the Notebook LM podcast with people,
0:04:10like, just going back and forth on Macedon and stuff about it, the more it seems to me that
0:04:14the podcast it generated, like, the best way to describe them would be, like,
0:04:22at least for the first portion of it as sort of a, I was going to say, a paraphrasing of the content.
0:04:32Regurgitation is similar in that it's like, okay, so here's the article, and then the hosts of the
0:04:37podcast, the AI hosts of the podcast, basically do the equivalent of rewriting the article into
0:04:45podcast speak. Like, they just speak it out loud rather than reading it. But they're not doing
0:04:50anything more than trying to, basically rewording sentence by sentence, point by points in slightly
0:04:56different orders, which is different than summarizing, right? Regurgitation, I think,
0:05:01that's the word I couldn't come up with in case you can't with it. I think it's a really good word,
0:05:04because they are throwing back at you everything that was in the article in a slightly less pleasant
0:05:09form, but it's all there. And then in the second part where they sort of riff, reform on it,
0:05:15it's more like they just took some of those words and again, looked at the Wikipedia pages that are
0:05:18related to them, went back and forth. And I feel that's part of why I think a lot of people when
0:05:23they hear these generated podcasts think they go on too long, is that they are, like, they're longer
0:05:31than the article. You could have just read the article and it would take less time, and it's not
0:05:33because they have a lot of commentary. It's because they take a long time to get around with everything.
0:05:37Anyway, we talked about that last episode. If you want to hear those podcasts, if you skipped them
0:05:42last time and you want to hear them, you can take a look. But I will say that, you know, doing live
0:05:48commentary on something you've never heard before is a lot harder than it sounds, as a reason, like
0:05:52Mystery Science Theater 3000, they pre-write and script all those jokes, believe it or not. They
0:05:56just don't do it in real time. I don't ruin the illusion. No, I mean, so in notebook LM's defense,
0:06:01like, you know, number one, I think there is a lot of media out there is just regurgitation of some
0:06:07source post or source material or source press release. So like there is a place for that. But
0:06:12also in notebook LM's defense, in each of those two examples, I only gave it one article. Like,
0:06:18I think the actual use of the tool is meant for larger data sets. Like, oh, I have these
0:06:2315 documents or all these different sources that I'm trying to, you know, get some info out of or
0:06:29summarize or make, you know, get some bullet points out of. When you feed it more information,
0:06:34it would not necessarily behave exactly like that. I mean, it would still generate the same type of
0:06:39thing with some of the same benefits and pitfalls, but it would have more broad source material in
0:06:43most uses. But it's not just limited, like, I don't know the details of notebook LM, but I have to
0:06:49think that it is what Apple would describe as a "world knowledge" LM, because the parts where I
0:06:55was complaining that it sounded like it was reading from a Wikipedia page, it clearly has
0:06:58lots of world knowledge in, like, before you feed it anything, right? It could comment on AI and all
0:07:04those things. That wasn't in the article. That's why I'm like, oh, it's reading from Wikipedia page,
0:07:07again, about some just, it has a lot of general knowledge. That's what it's bringing to the table.
0:07:11So yes, you only fed it the one article, but it's got however many billions of words that it was
0:07:18trained on. Well, I'm just glad I could contribute regurgitation to the lexicon. Yeah, that's good.
0:07:23And, you know, like Margo said, sometimes that's exactly what you want. And that we, or we have
0:07:28tons of forms of media out there today, where that's what we pay people to do, because it is
0:07:33a service. Like it saves you the trouble of having to have, you know, read the thing yourself or
0:07:38whatever. Usually you want it to be either compressing it or adding some analysis or
0:07:42insight, but even just straight regurgitation does have a role. I'm not sure I'd want those
0:07:48particular AI hosts doing the regurgitation, but you know, to each their own. You know, to be fair,
0:07:52like I, there is, there are lots of things in my life where I would want real humans doing a
0:07:59podcast about whatever I want to hear about, but I can't say there's nothing I would ever want this
0:08:04kind of thing to do. Like I don't, this kind of thing, like I don't intend to make it a big part
0:08:08of my life, but like I probably will actually use it for something sometime, either in, either this
0:08:15exact product or some future version of it. What was that thing that Marilyn talked about? Like
0:08:19the shipping news thing? Some people in the UK know what I'm talking about. Yeah, the maritime
0:08:23report. Yeah, the maritime report where this human would read it with a certain intonation and
0:08:29basically just, he's just reading off like the weather report or like whatever. Like it's just,
0:08:33it could very easily be done by an AI trained voice because it's very standardized. There's
0:08:38no riffing or anything, but people find it comforting and they like to have it read to them
0:08:42and whatever that pleasing British person's voice is. Can we talk about the camera control buttons
0:08:47on Apple's cases, Jon? Yeah, I kept referring to like the thing that Apple puts on them to transfer
0:08:53the capacitiveness of your touch as a quartz thing, but it's not, it's Sapphire. Many people
0:08:58wanted to correct me on that. I am happy to be corrected. I just want someone to make a case with
0:09:03a Sapphire or like it doesn't even have to be Sapphire. It can be that plastic thing with the
0:09:07metal things through it. I don't know, something that's not a big hole. And another week has gone
0:09:12by, another week filled with Instagram ads for iPhone cases and another week without me finding
0:09:16anything exciting or good. Well, I have a case from Spigen here that just arrived today that has
0:09:23a button overlay. Yeah, they're out there. Like I said, there's the, is it the one with the copper
0:09:27dots or is it a Sapphire thing? It's, it appears to be just solid white, but you can tell, but it
0:09:36has a rim. Like if you look real closely, you can see like there is a rim around its perimeter of
0:09:42some other materials. So I think it might be doing the same trick Apple does with theirs of just like
0:09:47some kind of, you know, solid material that with like a conductive rim around the outside,
0:09:51but it does work. It's the Spigen clear case. I'll put a link. They have a thousand cases. So,
0:09:58and you know, you go on Amazon, you try to find this exact one. You won't find it. It's just in
0:10:02a sea of other cases often by them. So it's hard to find, but anyway, I'll put a link. Somebody
0:10:06else I think referred me to it. And as a clear case goes, it's fine. It's not, it's better than
0:10:14Apple's in certain ways. The buttons feel better. It does unfortunately have a closed bottom unlike
0:10:20Apple's. So that keeps getting in my way. And it's a clear case. So like it looks okay. It doesn't
0:10:27look amazing, but we actually have other case recommendations or at least experiences. Yeah,
0:10:34the case situation is grim, but many, many people want to suggest cases. And I've gotten the main
0:10:38reason I want to read these out is to stop people from suggesting. Oh, wow. Maybe someone else will
0:10:44find them useful. So here's the first one. This has been suggested for years, not just this year,
0:10:47but every year we talk about cases. There is a contingent of people who really, really like this
0:10:51case. And maybe, you know, one of the people who's listening, they might like this case too.
0:10:54But the fact that they keep recommending it to me, it boggles my mind. Cause it was like the opposite
0:10:59of everything case. They're like, Oh, you want an open bottom? Well, how about this? I'll put a link
0:11:05in the show notes. This is the arc pulse case. I'm not sure if different brands have similar designs
0:11:09in past years. And I would say case is, is a, is a J a generous term for this. This is the way,
0:11:15the way I would describe it is it's like a princess layers metal bikini from return of the
0:11:20Jedi, but for your phone, that's exactly what this is. It is a very uncomfortable looking piece of
0:11:26metal that just sort of covers the corners of your phone. It goes like around the camera Mesa
0:11:32and it covers the top and bottom corners of the phone and you know, has an open bottom and that's
0:11:37it. They're like, this is great because really you just need the corners to be protected because
0:11:41that's the main part that's going to hit the ground. If you drop it or whatever, which I'll
0:11:44just to pause right there and say, that's mostly true, but it is very, very possible to drop your
0:11:50phone onto something like say a set of cement stairs or something where you will hit the sides
0:11:54and maybe your screen doesn't break, but you're going to scar up the side. So I'm right away. I'm
0:11:58not even accepting the premise that the corners are the only thing you need to protect, but
0:12:01why would I like this? I want a leather case for the grippiness of the leather. And I want it to
0:12:07cover everything, including all the buttons and including the camera button with a, you know,
0:12:11a pass through thing, you know, some kind of there. So this is absolutely nothing like anything that
0:12:17I want out of a case and yet people keep recommending it to me. So A, please stop and B,
0:12:22if you want a case like this, I have never seen one because it is a very rare, very interesting
0:12:26form of case. We will put a link in the show notes and you can try it out because it basically gives
0:12:30you the feel of a naked phone with substantial protection for the corners. And actually building
0:12:36off of that, the opposite of that is the next section. If you want a totally textured back,
0:12:44but no protection of any of the corners or sides, there's this entire category called leather or
0:12:51just magnetic case backs. It's basically a flat plate of some material, oftentimes leather,
0:12:57that uses MagSafe to stick itself onto the back of the phone and just covers only the back and
0:13:03not the sides. Yes, and many people are suggesting this because, hey, guess what? Open bottom,
0:13:08also open top, also open left, also open right, right? And honestly, this is actually closer
0:13:13because it does have leather on it. So I could see people saying, hey, you want a leather case
0:13:17and you want an open bottom. Just, you don't have to worry about the camera pass through because
0:13:21there's nothing on the sides. I do find these attractive, but I will clarify that the leather
0:13:25I want on my phone is partly and maybe for the most part, the majority wise for the sides,
0:13:33because that's where I grip my phone and the leather makes my phone grippy when I grip it
0:13:36from the side. So not having anything on the sides is not a feature for me. And then yes,
0:13:41obviously there's the fact that I do drop my phone. I do actually want some additional protection
0:13:46and yeah, the leather or that goes around helps with that. But if you want a case that's not
0:13:52really a case, but has a really nice look to it and it looks like it might be comfy on the back,
0:13:57hey, there's lots of magnetic back thingies that aren't really cases. These caught my eye because
0:14:04back in the iPhone 4 days, I had for my iPhone 4, I had basically a stick on piece of leather that
0:14:12had a little tiny circle cut out for the camera on the iPhone 4. It was exactly what this creates,
0:14:17metal sides, otherwise no case feel, but a very nice textured leather back for grip. And I think
0:14:24honestly for looks. And that I was so happy with. I freaking loved that thing. Just a stick on piece
0:14:31of leather for the back, that was it. And granted the phones were a lot smaller and lighter back
0:14:35then. So grip and side protection were not quite as needed as they are today. But it was glorious.
0:14:42So I decided to try one of these.