The Accidental Tech Podcast

117: You Don't Have the Antibodies


00:00:00   how's that low-level see audio codec how does your working on I'm making progress [TS]

00:00:05   do you have any hair left to pull out of your head Marco know this is why I cut [TS]

00:00:11   it short to make to make that possible I knew I was gonna be working on car audio [TS]

00:00:16   this week so I got a fresh haircut number two on the razor nice and that [TS]

00:00:20   that means it's too short to realistically grab hold of my god I'm so [TS]

00:00:24   that a handful maybe he might have been a little fingers extensors any free [TS]

00:00:32   follow-up stuff we need to worry about there is no pre follow-up only post [TS]

00:00:36   followup and follow-up and more follow follow up maybe the show is pre follow [TS]

00:00:43   at this point she just called this the axonal follow-up podcast will this [TS]

00:00:46   follow-up and then the main topics are really just pre follow up for next week [TS]

00:00:50   its so true so let's do our follow up so we can get to the pre follow-up now we [TS]

00:00:56   should probably start with it [TS]

00:00:58   talking about our discussion about how to attract or encourage women and girls [TS]

00:01:05   to listen to the show and unsurprisingly we got a lot of feedback about this and [TS]

00:01:11   I i appreciate and I know we appreciate all the feedback [TS]

00:01:14   a lot of it was really good pretty much all of it was really interesting in it [TS]

00:01:21   it certainly opened my eyes a bit on with regard to how men reacted to it how [TS]

00:01:27   women react to it and and so just a few things I think we should talk about [TS]

00:01:32   upfront I think first and foremost we i I would say we caught a little bit of [TS]

00:01:39   flak about spending so much time talking about advertisers and Harry's [TS]

00:01:43   specifically and I think that's reasonable I think the the problem with [TS]

00:01:48   the way the last episode when is that because we spent so much time talking [TS]

00:01:52   about talking about the advertisers it appeared as though that was the thing we [TS]

00:01:59   thought was the biggest priority just by virtue of the fact we spent so much time [TS]

00:02:03   on it [TS]

00:02:04   in reality that's not at all what any of us think is the biggest priority the [TS]

00:02:08   first thing to change its just as per usual we got wrapped around the axle on [TS]

00:02:14   that topic in I don't know if any of you ever heard the show but we sometimes get [TS]

00:02:18   off in the weeds and that's exactly what happened and in I think while the [TS]

00:02:24   discussion I think was good I don't mean for it and I am pretty sure you guys [TS]

00:02:28   don't mean for it to be representative of what we think is the right approach [TS]

00:02:32   to fix this problem it just so happens we got off in the weeds I think actually [TS]

00:02:37   have it back up as I can [TS]

00:02:38   here's how I maybe you all have different opinions of this feedback but [TS]

00:02:42   here's how I would characterize the first person I want to say that I still [TS]

00:02:45   feel like I'm I'm still processing that feedback I agree I'd like an ottoman [TS]

00:02:49   partly because it still coming in and probably become as I think it was like [TS]

00:02:53   the most upsetting to me feedback that we've ever gotten the show and there was [TS]

00:02:59   a wide wide range of responses feedback was all over the map but the title of [TS]

00:03:04   the top of that map was probably like you guys are dummies I got people like [TS]

00:03:08   this was skewed way negative like consensus is we are dummies and it's not [TS]

00:03:14   to say that it's not useful but like sometimes we get feedback that's like [TS]

00:03:18   just providing information or supportive or whatever but pretty much all this [TS]

00:03:22   feedback was telling us things that we missed our area I mean some of it was I [TS]

00:03:27   guess feedback from solicited feedback but it was fairly negative I do not that [TS]

00:03:33   surprised me I think I was kind of dreading discussing this topic because I [TS]

00:03:37   kind of figured this would be the the feedback we would get but the fact that [TS]

00:03:42   I'm still processing it makes me feel like I don't I don't quite know what to [TS]

00:03:46   think I'm and you i think what you highlighted is probably the only [TS]

00:03:51   dominant theme that I saw in it because I guess even though it was mostly [TS]

00:03:55   negative to a wide-ranging people have very different ideas about what we got [TS]

00:03:59   wrong right so I was a wide range on the negative round but the one thing a lot [TS]

00:04:03   of people seem to agree on your head is that [TS]

00:04:06   regardless of how they felt about the ads the dad was not the core issue [TS]

00:04:11   people who said you absolutely have to get rid of the ads also tends not the [TS]

00:04:15   core issue people said you absolutely have to keep the ads also the added that [TS]

00:04:18   the core issue right so that I feel like it's the only consensus that I could dry [TS]

00:04:21   out of this so far two things one that we didn't do a very good job and to that [TS]

00:04:28   the ad is a distraction regardless of how people feel about it what did you [TS]

00:04:31   think of the name and I am I being too negative on the negativity Marco where [TS]

00:04:35   did you get that impression as well now that was that was pretty much it i mean [TS]

00:04:39   this was I mean I'm also still processing a lot of this I I would say [TS]

00:04:45   just anecdotally added you guys feel the same way I would say anecdotally this is [TS]

00:04:49   probably the most words we've gotten feedback on any topic it just it it has [TS]

00:04:55   taken me a long time to even just reread the feedback email has been so much of [TS]

00:04:59   it and and most of it has been had been very informative I mean overall you know [TS]

00:05:04   there was definitely a prominent pattern to a lot of it that began with I'm a man [TS]

00:05:12   but Anna giant ball of the text that showed really a pretty poor [TS]

00:05:18   understanding of gender issues and technology or ever in life and that I'm [TS]

00:05:25   a little saddened by that you feel like though that was like the easiest [TS]

00:05:28   feedback and all yeah I ignored most of the amine it's it's depressing that you [TS]

00:05:34   know we're going to get that type of thing but it's a type of bacteria and [TS]

00:05:38   you like alright well so I know these people are out there I know they're [TS]

00:05:42   listening they have different opinions and ideas than we do but it's easier to [TS]

00:05:47   I don't know it's like it's easier to process because they in many respects [TS]

00:05:53   they are who they are who we are most capable of reaching right like if we can [TS]

00:06:02   reach those people that will affect change right if we can we can turn those [TS]

00:06:07   people around or just even more than more towards what we think you know our [TS]

00:06:11   value system that will be a success and they were sort of showing us here we are [TS]

00:06:16   over here if you feel like moving us [TS]

00:06:19   towards your way of thinking this is where we are so now you know what you've [TS]

00:06:23   got your work cut out for you [TS]

00:06:25   yeah it was surprising to me I think most of the email while negative was [TS]

00:06:31   informative there were certainly a lot of Hayama dude and blah blah blah blah [TS]

00:06:37   blah ok so you should really improve it but the thing that struck me was as the [TS]

00:06:42   immediate Twitter replies to the ATP account were disappointing and I'm sorry [TS]

00:06:51   I was certainly and remain taken aback by it because I was very surprised about [TS]

00:07:00   how many replies we saw which basically made me think that we were all members [TS]

00:07:06   of the he-man woman haters club which I don't remember signing up for and I [TS]

00:07:11   don't remember that being a thing and that was that was a little bit [TS]

00:07:14   disappointing not all of them of course but a lot of them well I mean I think [TS]

00:07:17   that that is the most much more interesting feedback to me also more [TS]

00:07:21   upsetting but much more interesting and because it's it's it's giving us new [TS]

00:07:26   information as opposed to just saying hey there are people out there with [TS]

00:07:29   regressive ideas about women in technology like eddie knew that but the [TS]

00:07:34   other side of the coin is more enlightening and I i would say for the [TS]

00:07:37   feedback and trying to characterize it we get more feedback from women than [TS]

00:07:41   usual which is expected and this type of topic and the reason I was emphasizing [TS]

00:07:46   the wider range is as I tried to emphasize on a show like women are not a [TS]

00:07:53   monolith no individual woman who treats it as it writes devices is purporting to [TS]

00:07:57   speak for all women they're just individuals right and that's why getting [TS]

00:08:01   a lot of feedback is good because otherwise if you had to get feedback [TS]

00:08:06   from three people and they all three different things you have no idea dude [TS]

00:08:09   could be a feedback from 300 people then maybe you can start sort of you know [TS]

00:08:13   slicing and dicing in trying to figure things out and you know soliciting [TS]

00:08:18   feedback is one thing and the second thing which you know many ppl emphasize [TS]

00:08:22   like you so was it the feedback and then you have to actually read it and listen [TS]

00:08:25   to it right the difficulty in doing that correctly as I love my son talk about 11 [TS]

00:08:31   difficulty is [TS]

00:08:32   try not to be defensive trying to be like you have to answer everything try [TS]

00:08:35   to be like every piece of advice is an accusation so on and so forth [TS]

00:08:39   you know trying not to suffer from a Lancer syndrome all these all these bad [TS]

00:08:43   instincts that are in me definitely and maybe you too as well you have to fight [TS]

00:08:48   those but the second thing is with this huge range even talk about something so [TS]

00:08:53   is the average of room or less agreed was not the core issue here just looking [TS]

00:08:58   at the women who get feedback and the add you know you can't possibly do what [TS]

00:09:03   quote unquote everyone wants because they want contradictory things some [TS]

00:09:08   women said you absolutely have to keep the ad removing it would be insulting [TS]

00:09:11   some women said you actually have to remove the ad its presence is insulting [TS]

00:09:14   so you get their feedback and we listened to it at some point we have to [TS]

00:09:20   do something and there is no course of action seems to me that a lot of the [TS]

00:09:25   people writing in all caps no matter what their opinion believe the day they [TS]

00:09:30   didn't seem to leave a lot of room for other possibilities of many people wrote [TS]

00:09:34   in to say this is the situation you guys at dummies are not seeing it and the [TS]

00:09:39   answer is obvious just do what I say but it's like but you know it's just that [TS]

00:09:45   one me emails fine but like you read one email after the next after the next at [TS]

00:09:49   an accident like if I do what you want then these ten people are gonna be upset [TS]

00:09:52   by do what they want them is fifty people are going to you know that's [TS]

00:09:55   that's that's our job our job is to solicit feedback accepted read it listen [TS]

00:10:00   to a try to understand it and then decide what the right thing to do for us [TS]

00:10:06   is right and that's why I feel like I'm still processing because it's difficult [TS]

00:10:10   to sort of being the people pleaser mobile you're like we're trying to do [TS]

00:10:14   the right thing you're right we're trying to solicit feedback if only there [TS]

00:10:17   was a quote unquote answer but there is not there is lots of people's opinions [TS]

00:10:21   and lots of people's answers and we have to figure out how how do we make forward [TS]

00:10:27   progress on [TS]

00:10:28   on you know on our goals based on this feedback and it's just it's kinda makes [TS]

00:10:33   my head spin at this point I think one one thing I think that we can all agree [TS]

00:10:38   on besides cheese thing is that we got a lot of feedback because we asked for it [TS]

00:10:45   and and that's exactly what we wanted we were asking the question to our audience [TS]

00:10:50   especially to the women in our audience what can we do to help address this [TS]

00:10:56   massive gender imbalance that our audience and you know it in tech [TS]

00:10:59   podcasting Anandtech as a whole this is a big problem and I i you know i i don't [TS]

00:11:07   pretend to be an expert on this I'm far from it I do however want to improve it [TS]

00:11:11   and as as a guy who is a smart ass and has always been a smartass I've always [TS]

00:11:20   had the problem of I rush right to thinking I have an answer to something [TS]

00:11:24   and as we saw in the email and as many women see every single day that's a very [TS]

00:11:31   common thing in this business and it's a very common thing among men in general [TS]

00:11:34   the you know the the attitude that we could have an immediate answer for [TS]

00:11:39   everything and we know everything about everything and we can quickly explain [TS]

00:11:42   away ever anything any problem and one of the things that I think everyone [TS]

00:11:49   would agree on which there isn't much in in this argument that everyone will [TS]

00:11:53   agree on it but I think everyone was on the right side of this can probably [TS]

00:11:56   agree that especially we men need to be listening more to be asking and [TS]

00:12:03   listening more we just need to be listening to what women are actually [TS]

00:12:06   telling us and it was very valuable to see even though a lot of it was [TS]

00:12:12   contradictory from women about what we should or shouldn't do the fact is we [TS]

00:12:16   asked we are listening and we're going to continue to ask him listen and to all [TS]

00:12:21   the men out there who responded in that matter of fact way this is going to be [TS]

00:12:27   hard for you to change in your in your life it's certainly hard for us but you [TS]

00:12:31   have to be open to the idea that the first step when this question is asked [TS]

00:12:36   is to listen to what women are telling you listen to what they have to say to [TS]

00:12:40   ask them [TS]

00:12:41   listening to care not just to jump to thinking you know the answer because [TS]

00:12:46   really is that is such a big problem for so many people and it is really this is [TS]

00:12:54   this is really primarily a problem with men that do this like the fact is the [TS]

00:13:01   world is not a perfectly balanced a place for everything is equal it's far [TS]

00:13:04   from it and that's the whole problem we're trying to address it is ok to [TS]

00:13:08   recognize that even even if you think you're being good and even if you think [TS]

00:13:15   that you are helping there are gonna be things in johnnie time there's gonna be [TS]

00:13:20   things that you subconsciously do or that you just do because you've always [TS]

00:13:25   done them and that's just the way you think that you think are normal in [TS]

00:13:27   neutral but they're not and so it's really is of utmost importance that men [TS]

00:13:32   in particular don't just jump to think you know the answers here that you know [TS]

00:13:37   really sit back and listen there's a lot that that we need to hear that's what I [TS]

00:13:42   talked about on the game gate episode one of the suggestions I made to the [TS]

00:13:45   audience of people who may have been sort of sympathizing with a gamer gate [TS]

00:13:48   and I'm just trying to look for something that I could suggest that [TS]

00:13:52   would be like actionable and that I felt like would make real change based on [TS]

00:13:59   what has worked for me and I was suggesting like Twitter account size [TS]

00:14:04   it's suggested that a bunch of people Twitter accounts like the everyday [TS]

00:14:07   sexism Twitter accounts a problem sure I suggested briana was the Twitter account [TS]

00:14:10   like just follow these to put our council was my suggestion but then don't [TS]

00:14:14   ever reply to them just like the tweets are going to make you angry sometimes [TS]

00:14:22   you're gonna disagree with a lot of fun the whole idea is like a one-year plan [TS]

00:14:27   of like subscribe and read the tweets economic don't get crazy but I'm just [TS]

00:14:31   haven't in the mix it and I'm doing this in terms of what we could do anything [TS]

00:14:34   blog posts you know who you [TS]

00:14:36   his facebook post you read what sites are either whatever just read them even [TS]

00:14:41   if the entire year you absolutely hundred percent disagree with every [TS]

00:14:44   single thing that you read because I feel like most of that like sort of just [TS]

00:14:49   being in contact with those ideas will slowly affect your worldview because [TS]

00:14:54   it's essentially force listen I cannot realistically maybe reading them like [TS]

00:14:57   hey treating them like a look at these dummies I disagree with everything they [TS]

00:14:59   so dumb that I know anything about anything right if you just keep reading [TS]

00:15:02   them like an everyday sexism on it is a great example it's like you just read [TS]

00:15:07   day after day after day of like minor things that happen to people situations [TS]

00:15:11   they ran I feel like it will eventually get through to you like this is not made [TS]

00:15:15   up stuff and I like it because I think the volume is important right and so we [TS]

00:15:20   are subjecting ourselves to this essentially voluntarily to try it you [TS]

00:15:23   know you know bring us bring out the feedback [TS]

00:15:26   tell us what you think give us your ideas and we just kind of have to soak [TS]

00:15:32   in it like you know it's like buying you know we're soaking it in some degree but [TS]

00:15:37   like actually inviting it'd be kind of getting a big dose of it dumped on her [TS]

00:15:40   head and that's part of the process of course this is a podcast and follow up [TS]

00:15:47   and of course we do have responses to things so kind of violating our rules [TS]

00:15:51   here but that the reason I suggest that all that stuff like that I feel like I [TS]

00:15:56   got into like just gamer game was a big part but even before that reading like [TS]

00:16:01   every single post about these things reading people following new people [TS]

00:16:06   looking at their tumblers following them on Twitter just just reading everything [TS]

00:16:10   mostly not responding to a mostly not engaging with people on Twitter mostly [TS]

00:16:13   but just like reading it and gave a gate was like the peak was just like every [TS]

00:16:16   day like seventeen new things to read write and then following the links on [TS]

00:16:20   the threads following the different people to you know where they come from [TS]

00:16:24   where what's their background what have they written before what have they done [TS]

00:16:27   you know like that kind of sort of it's not so they can be in research or [TS]

00:16:33   whatever on the topic is I thought that in most influential in my life and [TS]

00:16:38   changing my cell phone [TS]

00:16:39   on these topics and feedback is is part of that and now that I've said all those [TS]

00:16:45   things to try to be differentially everything I have to go and ruin it by [TS]

00:16:48   responding to what I think was the the harshest criticism we got because I [TS]

00:16:52   think the one thing he doesn't like this was the most common but I look back over [TS]

00:16:56   to the most negative event of the spectrum above the feedback we got its [TS]

00:17:02   not believe it or not from the people who have progressive ideas about women [TS]

00:17:05   in tech their feedback but tended not to be harsh tended to be condescending and [TS]

00:17:09   patronizing but like that's the most harsh ones in the one that felt the [TS]

00:17:14   worst feedback from women who did the gist of this feedback was on the topic [TS]

00:17:21   of changing the host lineup and changing the format of the show saying [TS]

00:17:26   essentially if you don't do one of those two things then it shows you don't care [TS]

00:17:31   about women at all and this is all BS front and that's the harshest version of [TS]

00:17:36   that just like you know saying these two things are are the test you if you don't [TS]

00:17:43   if you refuse to do things as we SAT and talked about last night we didn't want [TS]

00:17:46   to change the hostname the show with internal injuries show we basically [TS]

00:17:50   ruled those out and I feel like people hearing that people hearing I say we [TS]

00:17:55   read through this big list of suggestions that people suggested to us [TS]

00:17:57   and then we ruled out those two right off the bat and it just feels like every [TS]

00:18:01   other encounter women have had in technology where it's like the people in [TS]

00:18:06   the position of power [TS]

00:18:09   hear their concerns and immediately dismiss that sounds like slamming the [TS]

00:18:11   door in their face and I understand why people are angry about that understand [TS]

00:18:15   why why we got that the people are feeling the way they did why they felt [TS]

00:18:18   compelled to go to the feedback form and and write those things in but I you know [TS]

00:18:25   the I responded to some of these people and what I said all the responses of a [TS]

00:18:30   similar as I said on the show that would that would absolutely make the show more [TS]

00:18:38   appealing [TS]

00:18:39   you know given granted like this is feedback we received I agree with them [TS]

00:18:45   I'm where I disagree is by us not doing those two specific things and only those [TS]

00:18:50   two specific things change the host lineup during the show changes show [TS]

00:18:54   format to be an interview show that somehow there's nothing else we can do [TS]

00:18:58   to make this show more appealing to women to get more women listless I [TS]

00:19:02   totally disagree with that i think there are a ton of things we could do to find [TS]

00:19:08   more you know to make the show more inclusive to find attract more women to [TS]

00:19:13   the show is just a tremendous amount we read a whole bunch of tons of people [TS]

00:19:18   send us feedback with the with ideas [TS]

00:19:21   only two things we ruled out for changing the host lineup and changing [TS]

00:19:25   the formula Jeremy individual everything else including the harry said I might [TS]

00:19:29   point out on the table right and so that feedback like like it because it shows [TS]

00:19:35   that those people but they came away with was that we were that we were [TS]

00:19:39   dismissing them that we were just doing exactly what has been done to them in [TS]

00:19:43   the entire technology industry for their entire life which is just like this [TS]

00:19:47   population they listen to is going to address my concerns from home and are [TS]

00:19:50   slanted face right that we experience they got out of the show which is [TS]

00:19:53   terrible and not our intention obviously we did a bad job but I still have to say [TS]

00:19:58   that like I feel like our show can exist in its current form and be better than [TS]

00:20:04   it is that we can then we can make positive progress towards our goal of [TS]

00:20:08   inclusiveness and maybe that's not enough progress maybe we can make more [TS]

00:20:13   progress by changing the show on those ways but I feel like it's like that the [TS]

00:20:17   show has value and can be better in its current form I don't that like it a lot [TS]

00:20:23   of the worst again made it sound as if you like maybe feel like that our show [TS]

00:20:27   just should not exist like that it is an affront to the cause and that the world [TS]

00:20:32   does not need another three dudes tech podcast and the best thing we could do [TS]

00:20:35   is just change it in a fundamental way so it's a different show and if we don't [TS]

00:20:39   do that it shows you really don't care and you were just we don't do anything [TS]

00:20:42   they will they will return by happy little home in any way and I feel like [TS]

00:20:45   that is a mischaracterization and we were totally willing to do anything [TS]

00:20:50   within the bounds of the current show again provided you know granting [TS]

00:20:55   entirely that it would be make the show more attractive to women if we [TS]

00:20:58   those things but we want to have our show that the three of us this is our [TS]

00:21:01   show I feel like I you know it's a valid thing to do to have the show the three [TS]

00:21:06   of us I don't know I don't know how else do you characterize that without without [TS]

00:21:13   just sort of reinforcing everything I think it's basically like oh you just [TS]

00:21:16   want to have your show and that's that I do have the show with the three of us [TS]

00:21:20   and I do I feel like that show can be better and I feel like some positive [TS]

00:21:24   progress and make me feel better is if it's positive right is it as positive as [TS]

00:21:29   it could be if we you know and i dont wanna go into these damn that's why [TS]

00:21:34   should I still getting more defensive by the moment but if you go into the you [TS]

00:21:40   know I stopped myself here but what do you guys have to think about this topic [TS]

00:21:45   yeah i of all the feedback we got a lot of it hurt in the sense that it made me [TS]

00:21:51   very angry because I was disappointed in in the very chauvinistic things that I [TS]

00:21:58   saw but the stuff that actually hurt to end cut the deepest was when a woman [TS]

00:22:06   would write in and say like you said John basically if you don't [TS]

00:22:10   fundamentally change the show is then you're just a bunch of liars and well [TS]

00:22:16   just like you said John that absolutely would be the number one best way to put [TS]

00:22:22   our money where our mouth is that is I don't think it's unreasonable for us to [TS]

00:22:26   take that off the table and I even though the show isn't so many ways about [TS]

00:22:30   binary the show itself is not binary and there is a lot of in the middle that we [TS]

00:22:35   can do to improve ourselves and to improve the way we handle the show and [TS]

00:22:40   just generally make things more inclusive without changing the three of [TS]

00:22:46   us in and I should point out that we got a fair bit of women that road in that [TS]

00:22:50   said I understand why someone would ask you to change the lineup but don't do [TS]

00:22:57   that because the reason I listen says several women that road in the reason I [TS]

00:23:01   listen is because of the three of you and because of the chemistry you happen [TS]

00:23:05   because of the way you beat each other up over white cars and fish and so on [TS]

00:23:09   and so forth [TS]

00:23:10   and if you change that lineup it could ruin everything in so if this is the [TS]

00:23:19   most hurt I've gotten I'm still coming from a place of indescribable privilege [TS]

00:23:23   and I recognize that but it was it was really really bummed me out because I [TS]

00:23:27   feel like I wanna work together the three of us and the three of us in in [TS]

00:23:32   the women that listen and then the men that was then and i just want to work [TS]

00:23:37   together to make this a more inclusive happy place and it I feel like just like [TS]

00:23:43   you said John there is somewhere in the middle between doing nothing in [TS]

00:23:48   completely eviscerating lineup as it is as an existing go even farther because [TS]

00:23:53   like [TS]

00:23:53   from my perspective like as I said do you know that women are underrepresented [TS]

00:23:57   in tech podcasts and the like we should be linked to rock out last week we [TS]

00:24:01   should have more Lincoln the shouts of other podcast tech podcast that are very [TS]

00:24:04   similar DDP but have women on the list but the vector podcast Georgia now I'm [TS]

00:24:09   or the time our podcast with a friend and ally and then rocketed like the fact [TS]

00:24:16   that I can't name more than a handful these on top ad shows you there's not a [TS]

00:24:19   lot of them but they are out there and so women looking to hear their women's [TS]

00:24:23   voices on the topic of TAC you know there are options and I think there [TS]

00:24:28   should be more of them you know should our show be one of them like our show is [TS]

00:24:33   our show is that the three of us right but from my perspective i think is very [TS]

00:24:38   possible that we can do maybe not more good but a tremendous amount of good by [TS]

00:24:44   talking to are you know making a show more inclusive so it doesn't feel like [TS]

00:24:49   that if your woman listening to you somehow shouldn't be this is the place [TS]

00:24:52   for you right so that a lot of things like what can we do to change tons of [TS]

00:24:55   things like what can we stop doing that is bad what can we do that is that is [TS]

00:24:59   propelling women right can we talk about a certain number of things he tweaked [TS]

00:25:05   out of the huge range of things we could talk about by picking different things [TS]

00:25:09   and talk about you can we change the show and most importantly I feel like [TS]

00:25:13   even if we are completely unsuccessful in her to get more women and girls [TS]

00:25:17   listen to the show by talking to the men who listen to the show [TS]

00:25:21   that is probably realistically speaking our best avenue for positive change [TS]

00:25:25   because if we could snap my fingers and convince all the men on the show to you [TS]

00:25:31   know get on board with our way of thinking about this as ours even maybe [TS]

00:25:35   but just like to move them along the continuum that would be a tremendous [TS]

00:25:38   benefit and that's one of the pieces feedback i've heard from a lot of people [TS]

00:25:41   especially people deeply entrenched in this issue is that if you can check it's [TS]

00:25:47   the men's behavior that needs to change right so you we're all about like it can [TS]

00:25:50   make the show more inclusive can make sure we're not doing anything to repel [TS]

00:25:53   women we had to get through to the men to say to you in a nice way we can tell [TS]

00:25:58   I go you guys are all bad people you shouldn't listen like that is not it [TS]

00:26:00   that is not did all we want to be able to like bring bring people along with [TS]

00:26:06   the ideas that we have and even if we're only just talking to men that that is a [TS]

00:26:11   huge way that we can we can make a positive change in this area you know so [TS]

00:26:17   I just I feel like the three of us if if we change the show while keeping the [TS]

00:26:21   format and while keeping the three of us there I still feel like we can do a [TS]

00:26:25   massive massive gonna be just figure out how to do a better idea that we also got [TS]

00:26:30   a lot of feedback that that was suggesting what would make the show more [TS]

00:26:36   appealing to women but like but yeah that's how to people presented it but in [TS]

00:26:41   reality it's not about like it would make the show it more attractive to [TS]

00:26:45   anybody of any gender it had nothing to do with women so you know things like [TS]

00:26:49   just making it easier for new listeners to go into the show so you know not [TS]

00:26:54   spending the entire show on follow-up not being too much inside jokes like [TS]

00:26:59   stuff like that nobody said don't text into the other topic nice job you did [TS]

00:27:05   you think that's a great idea I don't know you know there are things about our [TS]

00:27:16   show format and that we can definitely improve on things that will make it [TS]

00:27:20   easier for any new listeners to come in and to end to stick with us and that's [TS]

00:27:26   like a lot of people from those things as here's why women don't like your show [TS]

00:27:30   which is complete BS over its at least not the whole story [TS]

00:27:34   it's like here's why a new listener might not stick around [TS]

00:27:37   that's the real story and so there are things there that we need to end should [TS]

00:27:41   improve to get more women listening mostly because that's how we get more [TS]

00:27:46   people this is like it has nothing to do with women [TS]

00:27:49   well I mean like like like I said in the past show you can like some of them were [TS]

00:27:53   you know like they said this but as I said last time we talked about politics [TS]

00:27:57   who have much broader broader appeal than ever talk about program and a lot [TS]

00:28:00   of people we've always got complaints we going to the Super programming stuff but [TS]

00:28:04   bottom line is that's one of the things that we want to talk about 35 [TS]

00:28:07   programmers on a podcast we're going to talk about programming some people love [TS]

00:28:10   the programming some people hate it that's not that's more of just a narrow [TS]

00:28:15   vs broad issue does not specifically gender issue but but a lot of you a lot [TS]

00:28:20   of people say like I'm not super into programming so whenever you talk about [TS]

00:28:24   programming I tuned out and we didn't get much feedback the life of the [TS]

00:28:27   program like there is a ceiling on on our appeal we you know if we did a show [TS]

00:28:32   about politics it would have way broader appeal and like but that's not the show [TS]

00:28:37   we're doing so in in in many ways like it's the same type of thing I also you [TS]

00:28:43   want you want to broaden your gonna get more women to listen will change what [TS]

00:28:46   you talked about like yes ok change we talked about in what way well I would [TS]

00:28:49   love it if you didn't talk about programming anymore [TS]

00:28:51   well you know there are lots of women remember to listen to like we talked [TS]

00:28:55   about programs like we're doing a program like I would love to talk about [TS]

00:28:58   Apple may be more people would listen if we didn't talk about what we talked [TS]

00:29:02   about something with you know with much broader appeal that's that's something [TS]

00:29:06   we have to deal with like we're always going to say well you know within the [TS]

00:29:08   confines of all you want to broaden his appeal show but you don't want to change [TS]

00:29:11   your show we do want to change it within the confines of the topic area right and [TS]

00:29:17   the three of us and everything and that's like so many people that is [TS]

00:29:20   basically sort of like you don't really want to change you say you want to [TS]

00:29:25   change you say you wanted to make the show more includes you say you want to [TS]

00:29:27   make it more appealing but you don't want to actually change anything about [TS]

00:29:29   the show and I and I reiterate again I think there are just so many things we [TS]

00:29:32   could change within this format to do better just a tremendous amount of [TS]

00:29:37   things we can change that we will hopefully be working on moving forward [TS]

00:29:39   that can make this show more inclusive [TS]

00:29:43   and and you know and and change people's hearts and minds who do listen to the [TS]

00:29:48   show men or women undermine whatever you know and i know i just i just feel I [TS]

00:29:54   feel somewhat defeated by this entire topic and I think we should probably put [TS]

00:29:59   a fork in it for today in a couple of quick thoughts first of all if you are [TS]

00:30:04   listening to this and don't care for it I'm sorry to hear that please do not [TS]

00:30:10   bother writing in to tell us that you don't care for it because this is going [TS]

00:30:14   to continue to happen and you can either carry on with the show or not but this [TS]

00:30:20   is something that's very important to the three of us and it's we're going to [TS]

00:30:24   keep talking about it and that's just the way it is and it's absolutely on [TS]

00:30:28   topic this is major is a major problem in the tech industry it is definitely [TS]

00:30:32   relevant for tech podcast to talk about this issue and the other thing I'm [TS]

00:30:38   seeing a lot of angst in the chat room right now that we're doing a lot of [TS]

00:30:42   navel-gazing and talking about the show and talking about oh what could we do [TS]

00:30:46   what could we do but not doing anything too quick thoughts on that first of all [TS]

00:30:50   i think is talking about this is doing something I mean would you rather us not [TS]

00:30:54   to talk about this I don't think that's really a solution and secondly outside [TS]

00:30:58   of the show in private conversations between the three of us we are [TS]

00:31:02   absolutely disgusting pretty much anything that we've gotten in email we [TS]

00:31:08   are discussing and considering pretty much everything even things we probably [TS]

00:31:15   don't want to do or may not do are on the table in private conversations [TS]

00:31:19   between the three of us I ask only that you bear with us and give us a chance to [TS]

00:31:24   get our heads around everything give us a chance to put things together and [TS]

00:31:28   watch the space I know it's probably not happening as quick as it should [TS]

00:31:32   it's probably not happening as quick as it could but we are working on it and in [TS]

00:31:37   we are trying as hard as we can and and and expect us to screw up like a expect [TS]

00:31:43   us to do badly again you know I mean like it's not don't don't expect [TS]

00:31:46   miracles right and we will never go as far as some people want to go people [TS]

00:31:50   will always be disappointed [TS]

00:31:52   like people will be disappointed that the show exists at all [TS]

00:31:55   clear from the feedback sometimes right but you know some people like it it's [TS]

00:32:01   like I just feel like you know the one of the trap that mental and when they [TS]

00:32:07   get into this topic is like I'm gonna I'm gonna do good here I am going to [TS]

00:32:11   champion the rights of whatever you know oppressed people that I am getting down [TS]

00:32:18   this caused by the block and then they get told that what they're doing is [TS]

00:32:21   wrong and they're like but but I was trying to help [TS]

00:32:24   well forget you guys now I'm not even gonna help anymore and it's like that's [TS]

00:32:28   exactly you just have to think we're trying mightily to avoid that like its [TS]

00:32:33   you have to understand that everyone is not going to agree with you [TS]

00:32:38   everyone is not going to like you and the closer you get to trying to make [TS]

00:32:42   some kind of progress the more anger people bTW you didn't go far enough and [TS]

00:32:46   that is that is a positive force I feel like pushing us in the right direction [TS]

00:32:50   that the wrong direction trying to get that as as a wind behind this as ever as [TS]

00:32:54   we become ever more disappointing to the people who are really invested in this [TS]

00:32:57   cause I'm hoping you were actually moving more towards like we're making [TS]

00:33:01   positive progress in that direction right now we're not going down that way [TS]

00:33:04   that we don't get repelled by that to be down there we don't start to resent the [TS]

00:33:07   idea that boo people said mean things to us who are quote unquote on our side I [TS]

00:33:13   wanted to be a wind at our back rather than something to tearing us from [TS]

00:33:17   pursuing us so Plex yeah I'd spoke last week about how the Synology Synology [TS]

00:33:26   specifically I think I cited the ds2 14 play as having the proper hardware to [TS]

00:33:32   transcode [TS]

00:33:34   video and do so quickly which makes it really great fourplex a handful of [TS]

00:33:38   people very gently pointed out to me that I am full of crap and that he 214 [TS]

00:33:43   does indeed have the right hardware however Plex does not have access to it [TS]

00:33:49   because of whatever is going on within the Synology I don't know the technical [TS]

00:33:52   details but suffice to say I'm full of crap so what I have found her I think a [TS]

00:33:58   listener listener to actually pointed out to me is a list of all the different [TS]

00:34:03   network attached storage devices that blacks will run on and it will end it [TS]

00:34:08   shows exactly what these devices can and cannot transcode in a reasonably [TS]

00:34:15   performance way so we will put that in the show notes I apologize if you took [TS]

00:34:20   any action on my BS recommendation I did not realize that I was dead wrong but [TS]

00:34:25   hopefully have caught you before you spend any money I do love my psychology [TS]

00:34:29   I do not have a 214 anymore I have one that is not at all well suited for [TS]

00:34:34   transcoding in so I do recommends analogies in general but I cannot [TS]

00:34:40   recommend the 214 that I previously recommended because as it turns out they [TS]

00:34:44   are a terrible idea for blacks so check out that list and and buy one that [TS]

00:34:49   actually works to do the things I thought the 214 would have high hopes [TS]

00:34:53   that hardware transcoding but but I don't use Plaxo what I found was that [TS]

00:34:57   when the hardware transcoding with useful it was good but if you are [TS]

00:35:01   downloading more exotic weird formats are you have no idea what the hell [TS]

00:35:06   formats you are downloading legally of course very often the hardware [TS]

00:35:10   transcoding can't handle it and there's one thing but software Transcona may be [TS]

00:35:13   slower but it is it can do a much broader range of things so I find myself [TS]

00:35:19   wishing that rather than hardware decoding I really had faster faster CPU [TS]

00:35:24   to do software decoding software transcoding alright what is going on [TS]

00:35:28   with iPhoto and Time Machine I think this is right after last week's show we [TS]

00:35:33   got this feedback and direct link to an Apple support article saying whatever [TS]

00:35:37   happened to the thing that I imagine that time machine integration apparently [TS]

00:35:40   I did not imagine and although this thing doesn't have screenshots as of [TS]

00:35:44   iPhoto 11 which was version 9.2 obviously and I was 10 lion 10720 or [TS]

00:35:52   later [TS]

00:35:53   that's when I thought I lost the ability to browse backups as they caught a [TS]

00:35:58   political this means that instead of restoring specific photos within your [TS]

00:36:01   iPhoto library you must restore your entire iPhoto library so I forget when [TS]

00:36:05   iPhoto 11 was I'm assuming 2011 but that's when this feature run away and [TS]

00:36:09   there is no more integration and I assume this is a feature that was never [TS]

00:36:12   public for like their party out there was something only I photo could do it [TS]

00:36:15   was written by Apple and it has fallen by the wayside said or maybe it's a good [TS]

00:36:21   thing on our first bunch of this week is cards against humanity and as usual they [TS]

00:36:27   have sent John a toaster to review in lieu of a sponsor read here so John what [TS]

00:36:32   is the toaster the crowd against humanity sent you to review this week [TS]

00:36:35   this week we've got the Cuisinart Custom Classic toaster oven broiler which I [TS]

00:36:40   guess is a sensible name in his model number key capitulo capital be hyphen 40 [TS]

00:36:47   another model number with both in 20 in it boggles my mind and how they keep [TS]

00:36:52   anything straight this is about the same size as my level 60 lol whatever model [TS]

00:36:58   numbers that I was forget it is a legit 4 slice toaster oven it's got four [TS]

00:37:06   unshielded resistive heating elements inside it has a very straightforward you [TS]

00:37:11   I this is the first poster that I did not ever need to look at the [TS]

00:37:13   instructions for which is saying something shouldn't be but it is that's [TS]

00:37:17   really sick three knobs on the day you look at the instructions like figure out [TS]

00:37:22   this new on some missing operate the any toaster but unlike ok but then what [TS]

00:37:27   about you know there's some new ones here that I'm probably missing any to [TS]

00:37:30   look at the menu this one is just had three knobs 14 function like toast broil [TS]

00:37:35   bake in preheated whatever 14 temperature that goes from you know that [TS]

00:37:39   normal range of toaster oven temperatures in degrees Fahrenheit and [TS]

00:37:42   14 toast shade and associated one you said to like a big range you said it [TS]

00:37:47   what you want and then there is a start-stop button so if you find the [TS]

00:37:50   correct setting for your toast every morning you don't have to adjust that [TS]

00:37:53   you just press the button it does it repeals that's all there is no time at [TS]

00:37:58   all which I didn't notice until a little later like you know what there's no way [TS]

00:38:02   for me to set this thing for a 10-15 with no time at all which is a very [TS]

00:38:05   interesting simplification almost a polite moved like it's very difficult to [TS]

00:38:09   incorporate all those things together and have all the desirable features of [TS]

00:38:12   not having to figure out what's the setting is the diet going to something [TS]

00:38:16   did you like the Breville you have you know here display LCD display or making [TS]

00:38:22   things complicated there's just no time at all this or if there is I didn't find [TS]

00:38:25   much because there was read the manual but I'm pretty sure that no timer just a [TS]

00:38:29   start stop on how does that make it harder to use the other new features [TS]

00:38:32   obviously with the toaster you don't really need a timer you start the [TS]

00:38:35   darkness not but it does have but does the lack of a timer make the other in [TS]

00:38:39   future less useful to you it depends like you should know that it doesn't [TS]

00:38:43   have a timeline that something you rely on I find that with with any future [TS]

00:38:46   except for toasting existing toaster oven I don't tend to use the time I just [TS]

00:38:50   kinda like put it in if anything it kind of annoys me at the time was to locate [TS]

00:38:53   reading something and then the time was like six minutes and I'll actually I [TS]

00:38:56   want to just I just turn the nominees to just 30 60 minutes I'm never gonna take [TS]

00:39:00   it out when I feel like it's done I'm not gonna forget about it right but if [TS]

00:39:03   you wanna time rather than up to interview the knob themselves really [TS]

00:39:08   good at Nob Hill actually it's fairly average not feel compared to the knob [TS]

00:39:12   feel on these other posters it is phenomenal right and about if you don't [TS]

00:39:16   know what the Nob Hill YouTube channel conditions should check it out it's just [TS]

00:39:20   that's the thing that really you never heard of the novel YouTube account are [TS]

00:39:24   you honestly surprised that we have never heard of that yes because it's [TS]

00:39:27   like a meanness I it's not like an obscure you know it's supposed to be [TS]

00:39:30   funny like the guy who just filmed himself killing with knobs and I think [TS]

00:39:35   he made it terrible mistake at the beginning like the format is he found [TS]

00:39:41   his hand filling with knobs and then he doesn't see any word he makes noises [TS]

00:39:44   like runs like [TS]

00:39:45   like that's that's it and he has been really confined himself by not having [TS]

00:39:50   words like this [TS]

00:39:51   tons of these videos only incorporated words it would be a much richer [TS]

00:39:54   experience anyway [TS]

00:39:59   mood and I feel expensive and like the best comparison is my Breville toaster [TS]

00:40:04   like the worst feeling I've ever felt on a plant in my life I understand why [TS]

00:40:09   that's all I do because they're made of plastic and their friends that you know [TS]

00:40:12   but like why wasn't this done more money anyway great number one problem with [TS]

00:40:16   these knobs though you can't tell where the knobs are pointing because like that [TS]

00:40:21   they're not something I'm at black plastic around them with riches and one [TS]

00:40:24   reaches ever so slightly taller than all the other ridges and you can tell by [TS]

00:40:28   feel where that ridge's by looking at it forget it like and there's no markings [TS]

00:40:32   on the front of the knob like little red triangle or something so figuring out [TS]

00:40:35   where the knobs are pointing like what what function is this set to what [TS]

00:40:38   temperatures is set to you basically have to feel on the thing especially if [TS]

00:40:42   you're toasters and slightly darker undercounter type area they really great [TS]

00:40:47   now feel not great and it's got a tray and it's kind of like you shaped like [TS]

00:40:53   dip down which seems weird to me but then I realize what they want to do and [TS]

00:40:58   actually confirm this by looking at the little pictures inside of the boxes you [TS]

00:41:02   can this two different sets of slots you can slide the train to but then with any [TS]

00:41:06   slight you can flip the trail over to do plus or minus like an inch because of [TS]

00:41:10   the dip in the thing it's hard to explain what about a picture in the show [TS]

00:41:13   but anyway [TS]

00:41:14   essentially four different positions you can put the thing in just 22 slot then [TS]

00:41:18   each slide you can put into different positions that seems like an interesting [TS]

00:41:22   idea to give more flexibility of different positions but overall I think [TS]

00:41:25   it's worth it because like things get caught on the little U-shaped thing you [TS]

00:41:28   try to slide you to tell us that if you have four slices in there so clever idea [TS]

00:41:32   but in the end I would say that this does everything that tries to pull the [TS]

00:41:36   trailer and open and close the door but because you can reposition the trade [TS]

00:41:39   they can't make a single mechanism to do that they have to put kind of like metal [TS]

00:41:43   hook that catches the the trade in both positions of things really high really [TS]

00:41:49   low catch a different areas like it's a difficult problem that's all they [TS]

00:41:52   understand if you want to make a movie portray how do you connect something to [TS]

00:41:55   it so comes out [TS]

00:41:56   but again like technically kinda works but if you ever have to you move the [TS]

00:42:00   train manually when you close the door again the little hooks to re-engage in [TS]

00:42:04   the tray up while we're talking about a minute slower than my toaster toaster [TS]

00:42:10   piece of bread but it all the way as it is very comfortable to my toaster just a [TS]

00:42:16   bit and then click here but that are not feel so that was kinda long I'm sorry [TS]

00:42:20   but this is actually a very interesting better not feel but worse overall knobs [TS]

00:42:25   because of the difficulty in detecting yes yes [TS]

00:42:27   whereas worse overall not right he totally because you can't tell where the [TS]

00:42:31   pointing to determine so in summary this is better or worse than the trouble was [TS]

00:42:38   worse than the Breville has like digital timers and like it you know it's just [TS]

00:42:43   way better today [TS]

00:42:44   adjustments for a number of slices and and auto adjust the time based on the [TS]

00:42:48   temperature inside the Breville the better toast their functionally this [TS]

00:42:52   just has an interesting aspect and it is very similar to the Breville in terms of [TS]

00:42:55   size and even appearance [TS]

00:42:58   do you think this is a good value for 80 bucks it sounds like you're saying yes [TS]

00:43:01   yeah I mean it's a little slow like a minute slower to toast that's that's in [TS]

00:43:07   the borderline of like a light i feel like im still probably take the Black [TS]

00:43:10   and Decker 39 over this because that's my big hang out with my personal thing I [TS]

00:43:14   feel I don't wanna wait that long for toast to the four men arranged for [TS]

00:43:17   people to know you know I would still probably take the smaller more [TS]

00:43:22   conventional also three now by the way [TS]

00:43:24   Black and Decker over this thing it's just kind of a dead ringer for the [TS]

00:43:29   Breville but like I can see where that extra you know whatever dollars went [TS]

00:43:33   remind thank you very much too cards against humanity for sponsoring our show [TS]

00:43:38   once again alright we got some pretty good feedback from kitty Johnny Mathis [TS]

00:43:44   yeah this is on the topic of watches replacing phones I think we have another [TS]

00:43:51   piece of feedback about this as well [TS]

00:43:53   heard there was one of the features that the phone has the phone as the watch has [TS]

00:43:59   the don't necessarily seem to be watch related specifically all the little you [TS]

00:44:06   know things about [TS]

00:44:07   out sending pictures to be born in the 3d emoji and all the different fitness [TS]

00:44:13   app typings obviously need to have an accelerometer and their whatever but the [TS]

00:44:16   phone has an accelerometer the phone has a screen phone has all these things why [TS]

00:44:19   are they on the watch now and that aspect this is true of a lot of Apple [TS]

00:44:23   products whatever the new glory product is seems to get a lot of the cool [TS]

00:44:28   features forest in a trickle down this happened along time with like hey I was [TS]

00:44:32   got some cool features that eventually came to the Mac in the reverse direction [TS]

00:44:35   of your guns there I don't know if those things lever come to the phone right now [TS]

00:44:41   there's nothing stopping you from being alone including all the fitness tracking [TS]

00:44:43   stuff because he owns got an accelerometer and everything to you [TS]

00:44:46   can't do that obviously the blood pressure pulse stuff but everything else [TS]

00:44:49   could happen on the phone it will be a shame if all the advanced features [TS]

00:44:54   happens on the watch instead of the phone but I was trying to understand it [TS]

00:44:59   and then the second one is like things like watch faces with the complications [TS]

00:45:03   on them everything [TS]

00:45:04   the IRS home screen as a bazillion people like that many many times [TS]

00:45:07   including many Android fans the iOS home screen could be a lot cooler if it [TS]

00:45:12   supported essentially complications otherwise known as widgets are you know [TS]

00:45:16   any kind of customization so you can make your lock screen or your homescreen [TS]

00:45:19   more customizable and you can call has been moving slightly in that direction [TS]

00:45:24   let you know the Notification Center and the ability to adjust their and stuff [TS]

00:45:28   but in the end the home screens you know springboard to soldiers have been great [TS]

00:45:31   of icons with some clumsy faltering thrown in and I i think i would you know [TS]

00:45:38   if I get up complications [TS]

00:45:40   you know in scarecrows on the screen I think that would be a plus but we'll see [TS]

00:45:46   if that ever comes back to the Mac back to the iPhone this case and part of the [TS]

00:45:52   reason why I think we don't have you know we have complications in the [TS]

00:45:55   watches we don't complications on your lockscreen your phone I think part of [TS]

00:45:58   the reason why is just another show you know it first of all you do have the [TS]

00:46:03   today view which is which I personally don't use they don't use debut and I [TS]

00:46:07   would definitely use lockscreen complications long before I used a few [TS]

00:46:12   stuff but keep in mind so not only do they have like an existing thing that [TS]

00:46:17   kind of does that [TS]

00:46:18   because I always been around for so long and is so powerful within the company [TS]

00:46:23   even though it is not like the glory products you know that the watches right [TS]

00:46:27   now there's there's inertia with like managerial decisions they're so [TS]

00:46:32   somewhere in Apple probably pretty high up there some manager VP holding tight [TS]

00:46:37   to the idea that there should not be widget on an iPhone home screen as far [TS]

00:46:41   as you know I mean maybe I will change this who knows but I doubt it so [TS]

00:46:44   somewhere there somebody who decided that a long time ago and is sticking [TS]

00:46:48   with that decision is not letting a change it and like any anything that's [TS]

00:46:52   been around for a while gonna have used many people like there's been a lot of [TS]

00:46:55   discussion this week about the Mac App Store because there is there is an app [TS]

00:47:00   called review redacted redacted [TS]

00:47:05   that hit number one and made very little money being number one and even though [TS]

00:47:09   it's not quite number one it's not quite anyway doesn't matter a lot of [TS]

00:47:13   discussion about the Mac App Store and how much sucks personally I think the [TS]

00:47:16   Mac App Store situation can be blamed on one major thing that's a boxing you know [TS]

00:47:22   the ABS a preview 30% cut black upgrade pressing all those things hurt but none [TS]

00:47:29   of them hurt as much as sandboxing today in my opinion I think sandboxing on the [TS]

00:47:34   Mac has been a massive loss of a massive net loss overall and that and it has [TS]

00:47:40   cost the Mac App Store a lot of a lot of good apps and a lot of developers will [TS]

00:47:45   but somewhere and Apple there's clearly somebody who has power who is keeping [TS]

00:47:50   sandboxing there and keeping sandboxing a requirement to be in the Mac App Store [TS]

00:47:54   and so even though it looks like it might not be the best idea for the [TS]

00:48:00   product just the fact is when you have a big company you have people you have [TS]

00:48:03   power you have power struggle sometimes you have debates internally there's this [TS]

00:48:08   other factors that keep things the way they are even if it's not ideal so in [TS]

00:48:11   this case the watch comes up in the water is kind of a clean slate I mean [TS]

00:48:14   you know it seems to run some some variant of iOS but it is basically a [TS]

00:48:19   clean slate in like the things that offer the things it doesn't the UI it [TS]

00:48:22   offers where things are allowed where things aren't allowed and so it was able [TS]

00:48:26   to do things that [TS]

00:48:27   we might not see for a while and iOS sidetrack on this thing but in the [TS]

00:48:33   sandbox think the guy who thinks that I think I mostly agree with that [TS]

00:48:40   like I think sandboxing is a positive direction for the back to go but the [TS]

00:48:45   execution of that of the implementation of that policy [TS]

00:48:48   left a lot to be desired having to become mandatory before his full [TS]

00:48:52   featured right [TS]

00:48:53   having having their be so few ways for apps 22 you know like to do things [TS]

00:49:01   outside of San boxing on a case-by-case basis with exceptions like just ideal [TS]

00:49:07   gifts and even if sandbox and get sprung into existence in its current state [TS]

00:49:11   immediately like nothing you can do that because you know you need to be [TS]

00:49:15   developed to some degree but like the capabilities that were possible in [TS]

00:49:19   sandbox and early on but just so limited and so broken so weird in so buggy to [TS]

00:49:24   mandate people going to that was just that was getting off on the wrong foot I [TS]

00:49:28   think you do have to bring them back towards a sandbox intake environment but [TS]

00:49:31   the way to get there is like not the way they've done it so I feel like that as [TS]

00:49:36   more of a and execution fumble than a theoretical and I do think there will [TS]

00:49:42   always be things that are outside the sandbox and should be allowed to be on [TS]

00:49:46   the Mac App Store with caveat but some kind of warning blah blah blah but like [TS]

00:49:49   moving in a direction is good maybe it's similar with all the other decisions [TS]

00:49:54   that like you may agree with the end state to go but you don't agree that the [TS]

00:49:58   way that plans to get there is going to be successful or has been beneficial [TS]

00:50:05   basically how I feel like sandboxing in theory is a huge security improvement [TS]

00:50:10   and and I i would like to be in the place where everything is sandbox [TS]

00:50:14   properly but I agree that the way it's been done has been pretty miserable and [TS]

00:50:20   and the result the reality is you have this system that is you know opt-in by a [TS]

00:50:26   very small number of apps it's not preventing Mac malware it's not [TS]

00:50:31   preventing major abstract is going around the App Store insan themselves [TS]

00:50:34   elsewhere there's still tons of [TS]

00:50:38   other software that is made and run every day that's not sandbox including a [TS]

00:50:42   lot of Apple's software because they're not sandbox or sandbox technically but [TS]

00:50:46   is given like these blanket permission to do anything at once not really send [TS]

00:50:52   so they're like in theory it's a great idea if everything was system can be [TS]

00:50:58   properly sandboxed in practice how to get there and what they've done so far [TS]

00:51:02   has been miserable the best thing for sandboxing like the best used to [TS]

00:51:07   sandboxing and Apple is doing this as well as for Apple to stand by that stuff [TS]

00:51:10   and it has been its been sandboxing tons of its daemon processes parts of the OS [TS]

00:51:14   like sandbagging has to exist [TS]

00:51:18   Apple should be the primary user of it they should be applying it pretty [TS]

00:51:22   strictly to all parts of the OS they possibly can to have the police [TS]

00:51:26   privileges at least access to and during that process [TS]

00:51:29   apply it to their GUI applying it to you know they should be dog from this like [TS]

00:51:33   crazy they should be reined it out for everything and then offering it to [TS]

00:51:37   developers as this is a way for you to write your apt in a way that you don't [TS]

00:51:41   have to worry about somebody hosing the entire person's computer like so it is a [TS]

00:51:45   benefit not as like you have to do this because we say so and if your app [TS]

00:51:49   doesn't work because of it oh well you get an exception at that time attacking [TS]

00:51:53   time bomb that's gonna run out in about a year so stop selling crap or make a [TS]

00:51:57   new act like it was just it was just done so badly and I feel like the [TS]

00:52:01   technology had to be developed Apple should be using it all app developers [TS]

00:52:05   can use it should be using it but it should not be that should have been [TS]

00:52:08   awarding the Mac App Store in the way that is pushing out good apps entirely [TS]

00:52:12   out of the store making people discouraged tonight even want develop a [TS]

00:52:15   Mac out because I know [TS]

00:52:16   to the matter my idea anymore anyway so I don't even bother just been not great [TS]

00:52:23   yeah it seems to me that a lot of times Apple is do as I say not as I do and I [TS]

00:52:32   think sandboxing is a great example of that and it's unfortunate because I [TS]

00:52:36   think a lot of the pain that developers feel Apple either fields and says I will [TS]

00:52:42   just not deal with that you know all this and boxing you I we can't do we [TS]

00:52:46   want sandbox and most group [TS]

00:52:48   we don't need to bother or you know there are some kinds like with with [TS]

00:52:53   cloud kit where it's embraced its cloud Kingdom think you're right that that [TS]

00:52:58   photos runs on you ok so the club kid gets embraced in from everything I've [TS]

00:53:02   heard loud kids actually really solid because Apple dog food it's so it's [TS]

00:53:07   unfortunate to me that that more of that doesn't happen or maybe if it is [TS]

00:53:10   happening but nobody knows it because we're left to assume it's not happening [TS]

00:53:15   and blame that as one of the big issues with say sandboxing but but maybe it is [TS]

00:53:21   happening we're just not aware of it and I mean to me like that the Mac App Store [TS]

00:53:25   as a whole to me and i dont have never had an appt for sale the Mac App Store [TS]

00:53:32   so I haven't seen that side of it but just from reading with our friends say [TS]

00:53:35   who do who are in it and some from using it as a user it just it seems like the [TS]

00:53:40   Mac App Store is like Apple at its worst like all of Apple's I like the worst [TS]

00:53:45   things they do they do most of those things in the Mac App Store and also [TS]

00:53:50   there's very little up site so lucky [TS]

00:53:52   the iOS App Store you have to put up with 30% you have to put up with all [TS]

00:53:55   these rules and restrictions you have to do a preview but the upside is you get [TS]

00:54:00   access to this massive massive customer base that is just incredibly high in [TS]

00:54:06   volume and there's tons of money floating around and it's fairly easy you [TS]

00:54:10   know it's possible for me for many people to make a good living there [TS]

00:54:15   the Mac App Store has all the same downside of the iOS App Store plus it [TS]

00:54:21   has a way smaller installed base than that I O S even among people who use [TS]

00:54:26   Macs a smaller percentage of them use the Mac App Store also the Mac App Store [TS]

00:54:32   app is I think one of the worst at the ships with OS 10 I mean it's just a [TS]

00:54:38   terrible at its buggy it is confusing to navigate even when it works properly it [TS]

00:54:43   is visually really wacky and inconsistent and dated looking i mean [TS]

00:54:48   they're so it's a terrible at the mental model of those opposed my mind [TS]

00:54:52   how many people know that if you click the Update button and immediately quit [TS]

00:54:56   the app to the Upstate still continues in the background Michael who would who [TS]

00:54:59   would guess that based on the model of any app they've ever use like this [TS]

00:55:02   because it's so integrated into the system of the software update deal where [TS]

00:55:05   the hell is running in the background like the fact that it could be [TS]

00:55:07   downloading updates like it just totally breaks the model of an app that most [TS]

00:55:12   people are you still on the max supercomputers yeah I mean so so the Mac [TS]

00:55:16   App Store like it has all the downsides of the iOS App Store plus a number of [TS]

00:55:22   additional downsides and very little of the same upside and so it's no wonder [TS]

00:55:28   that know that a No in it and there's no activity their biggest downside is sadly [TS]

00:55:33   that said before everybody involved that they're all alternatives to it like for [TS]

00:55:38   all the things that developers had about the iOS App Store about 30% about not [TS]

00:55:42   having your own customers about cutting be able to respond to reviews like just [TS]

00:55:46   all those terrible things on the Mac people like herself right we are already [TS]

00:55:51   big company where do you know how to sell things we turn to sell the Mac App [TS]

00:55:54   Store we have the alternative right and so that means that they get all the [TS]

00:55:59   benefits of you know be able to talk directly to customers balance updates [TS]

00:56:03   like all that stuff but they also get all the downside that Apple is trying to [TS]

00:56:07   help them to avoid like essentially if there had been only one place where you [TS]

00:56:11   get software for your Mac and I'm not recommending this because I am an old [TS]

00:56:14   man who likes things the old way but anyway that had been the case the Mac [TS]

00:56:18   App Store ironically would actually be much better because people will be [TS]

00:56:21   forced to get into it that will probably force Apple to deal with some of its [TS]

00:56:26   rules you know like that hasn't happened in iOS it has no place like anything [TS]

00:56:31   about the Ono interpreters ok well I guess games gonna have interpreters [TS]

00:56:34   because they are you skipping like that's a that's a perfect example of [TS]

00:56:38   let's make a bunch of really strict rules and then that's how unforeseen [TS]

00:56:43   consequences in da says you gotta let us run Lua scripts that's how our home [TS]

00:56:47   games work he is big enough for them to go all right all right you can run [TS]

00:56:51   interpreter unless your game running a blog about line like every other place [TS]

00:56:55   where something has been restricted in the iOS App Store if a big enough for [TS]

00:56:59   enough important companies you know if it's [TS]

00:57:02   at stopping them from selling in there or if they if they can't get their [TS]

00:57:05   applications and they just think about the Mac App Store be like if that was [TS]

00:57:08   the only way dobie could get Photoshop onto the Mac it would have to be very [TS]

00:57:12   different sandboxing cannot existence was gonna say we're not interested in [TS]

00:57:16   Photoshop for the Mac anymore sorry you know something will have to give this is [TS]

00:57:21   all just a fantasy hypothetical scenario not something I recommend you can never [TS]

00:57:24   actually happened for the Mac being with it is a general-purpose computer is not [TS]

00:57:28   a closed system like I was blah blah blah understand all of this I'm just [TS]

00:57:31   saying like due to that reality the Mac App Store is even worse even further [TS]

00:57:37   handicapped by by the existence of a better readily available alternative the [TS]

00:57:43   Mac developers already experienced with your last piece of follow-up is from [TS]

00:57:47   Sarah and she had some very interesting points with regard to the watch which [TS]

00:57:53   John you alluded to earlier you wanna tell us about these yeah this is about [TS]

00:57:58   my market talking about the again the watch replacing the phone and I said [TS]

00:58:03   that I hadn't heard anyone say that again markets a dozen people looking to [TS]

00:58:07   have a lot to say no that's the thing that scary place the phone now right [TS]

00:58:10   which is really just sort of excitement about anything and not a particular plan [TS]

00:58:15   to do so here is an actual plan to do so she says as soon as the watch has a [TS]

00:58:19   cellular radio I'll be ditching my phone and going with a watch + iPad set up and [TS]

00:58:24   the reasons for this are things that hadn't occurred to me because i dont [TS]

00:58:27   have these problems and the problems are women's clothing don't have as many [TS]

00:58:31   pockets so you don't always have a place to your phone and the alternative of [TS]

00:58:35   putting in a bag is a pain she refers to the email to the tyranny of the handbag [TS]

00:58:39   is it real thing [TS]

00:58:40   describes a phenomenon that I admit I also have not seen the ever been to a [TS]

00:58:45   nightclub you'll see in women dancing awkwardly unable to move properly [TS]

00:58:48   because they can put their baghdad anywhere [TS]

00:58:50   our group of women dancing in a circle with their bags on the floor in the [TS]

00:58:52   center so they can keep them safe for the women can still dance this is not a [TS]

00:58:57   good situation and not something that comes up with the idea is if you can [TS]

00:59:02   have a watch on your wrist you not to worry about a pocket to find to put the [TS]

00:59:05   things you don't worry about that putting something valuable in your [TS]

00:59:07   personal find someplace safe to put your purse [TS]

00:59:12   seen a lot of water views and a lot of it is about like the freedom of your [TS]

00:59:16   phone in your pocket I think there is a potential freedom in not only not run [TS]

00:59:22   into your pocket but maybe not having to have your phone to perform some limited [TS]

00:59:26   set of tasks like if you just want to sort of be in touch by phone and be able [TS]

00:59:31   to send and receive text messages and some rudimentary way he may be the [TS]

00:59:34   freedom that affords is worth the massive drop in in functionality to you [TS]

00:59:38   would be sacrificing by not having a phone but only having a lot so there [TS]

00:59:43   there's one vote four person is willing to do that as soon as the watch becomes [TS]

00:59:48   a little bit more independent [TS]

00:59:50   that's a very good point that you know we didn't think of because we didn't ask [TS]

00:59:55   and this is what we want two things are trying to improve even you if you want a [TS]

00:59:59   dog walk right if you go on a dog walk with Bluetooth headphones and meat [TS]

01:00:04   products now it just promoting stuff onto the watch our adorable I wouldn't [TS]

01:00:08   it be nice you said like I don't don't think my why don't you take my keys but [TS]

01:00:12   I do is take my phone would you feel like you could get into a place where [TS]

01:00:15   you gonna go out for dog and just like not have just had to watch on and that's [TS]

01:00:19   it [TS]

01:00:19   like if you what would what would they need to add to your watch for you to do [TS]

01:00:22   that and not have to feel like it didn't give me well it would need to be able to [TS]

01:00:26   run overcast that's number one like independently of the phones are not [TS]

01:00:29   worth watching [TS]

01:00:30   natural native overcast Apple would have my stuff on it saying everything's [TS]

01:00:33   that's you know that's that's what I would need to do that the reality is I [TS]

01:00:36   wouldn't face is probably personally pocket for your phone but I'm saying [TS]

01:00:40   like what if you didn't if you didn't have to take it like oh well as be [TS]

01:00:44   overcast like is not an app to your costly interacting with like you're [TS]

01:00:47   listening right you know it's the ideal case of like oh that's all you need your [TS]

01:00:51   podcast if you just need a native overcast and you're watching your [TS]

01:00:53   watches you know I still radio whatever like if you got all that it's not your [TS]

01:00:58   fingers and have it would you find yourself like you be taken from that had [TS]

01:01:01   been eventually be like a maybe use it if you want to send a long text somebody [TS]

01:01:06   on a dictator and arrest I don't have watched I can make all this yeah I don't [TS]

01:01:12   know I mean if I I see why a lot of other people would want this [TS]

01:01:16   runners joggers like the it they would they could do the kids like the chances [TS]

01:01:21   of a phone flying idea pocket if you try to keep it in jogging shorts is way [TS]

01:01:24   higher [TS]

01:01:25   then if you keep it in like the jeans and terrible cargo shorts that I wear [TS]

01:01:29   when I walk my dog they don't even need some new GPS yeah and and a lot of a lot [TS]

01:01:34   of the exercise trackers have GPS for that reason yet but we'll see about that [TS]

01:01:40   at that and that's why I like I can see the Apple watch adding GPS before I see [TS]

01:01:46   it adding a cell radio necessarily as lower power at my wife has a big Garmin [TS]

01:01:51   you know a Garmin like basically wrist watches the ugliest thing I've ever seen [TS]

01:01:54   a big Garmin GPS she has an iPhone 5s right but she doesn't like to run with [TS]

01:01:59   the phone with its big right so she put the government and why is she just to [TS]

01:02:03   have a step tracking like she wants to know exactly how far she ran and maybe [TS]

01:02:08   the route you took and tracking is not as accurate as UPS for measuring the [TS]

01:02:11   things she wears the big bulky government thing so she didn't want to [TS]

01:02:15   watch but maybe if that is if the Apple watch had GPS I think she could be [TS]

01:02:21   compelled to buy one of you become more interested and I'll tell you I mean I [TS]

01:02:24   don't know I don't think Apple what does can do distance accurately without the [TS]

01:02:29   phone present his I don't know how it would well the documentation that I've [TS]

01:02:32   read although I haven't tried this is that if you keep the phone with you [TS]

01:02:37   it'll obviously use the phone's GPS to kind of cross referencing corroborate [TS]

01:02:42   what it thinks but it knows how tall you are in knows how many steps you're [TS]

01:02:45   taking and so it makes the best guesstimate based on what it thinks your [TS]

01:02:49   stride is and how many steps he's taken to guess how far you've run and I think [TS]

01:02:56   that it will kind of train itself based on the times are you actually have your [TS]

01:03:01   phone with you and do the same things [TS]

01:03:03   yeah I think that's our end tweet something like showing she brought a GPS [TS]

01:03:07   with air and also the also the Apple watch after she calibrated and show they [TS]

01:03:11   were only off by like you know fraction of a mile or something to try to show [TS]

01:03:14   that you would think that step tracking could always but always be off by some [TS]

01:03:18   but actually it can get pretty close but you know it not just distance people [TS]

01:03:22   want GPS as they wanted a route they want to see a map I ran through the park [TS]

01:03:26   I did this year I was going slow here is where I was going fast if that's what [TS]

01:03:29   you want so you need you need to know [TS]

01:03:31   two-dimensional position and forever throughout the 2012 National positioning [TS]

01:03:36   and and distant tracking when I have the phone with me on my [TS]

01:03:38   dog walks is great like I verified this site called gmap pedometer that lets you [TS]

01:03:45   just like it's an elite and Google Maps and you can click out the route you took [TS]

01:03:50   it and tell you how long that was I love tracking this now so I have never been [TS]

01:03:55   into activity before I've never tracked anything about my activity I've never [TS]

01:03:59   cared about fitness have never regularly done any fitness except I do walk my dog [TS]

01:04:04   most days and we have a very hilly town and I and we walk between three quarters [TS]

01:04:10   of a mile and a half miles depending on whether the ability and everything so [TS]

01:04:15   I've now actually been really enjoying tracking that and seeing oh I have I've [TS]

01:04:20   only gone and 1.2 miles maybe I should take this turn here in this block and [TS]

01:04:25   added and I keep finding myself like adding to the route just to to help you [TS]

01:04:31   know finish up my circles in the watch or to to beat yesterday's record of [TS]

01:04:35   never it's really you know this unification stuff of fitness I know that [TS]

01:04:40   it might not work for every day this stuff tends to work for a week and then [TS]

01:04:43   you give up on it you don't have the antibodies that's that's what happened [TS]

01:04:47   here you've been infected by the information you need to it from having [TS]

01:04:52   had 17 different debates go through the washer whatever else so this is your [TS]

01:04:56   first your first experience with this and it does have a it does have the [TS]

01:05:00   Hawks looks like this you know I'm under no impression that this will last [TS]

01:05:04   forever I hope it does but I know myself and how easy I am and how much I hate [TS]

01:05:09   fitness so this will probably wear off the right now just wanted to finish [TS]

01:05:14   those circles has gotten me to move more and to to complete my goals everyday [TS]

01:05:20   like it is like I i have on my watch face I have only a couple complications [TS]

01:05:27   and one of them is the activity rings and so I [TS]

01:05:30   whenever I look at the watch I'm seeing so it's not like this thing I have to [TS]

01:05:34   remember to check like a Fitbit or a pin or even like a pedometer affidavits [TS]

01:05:38   pedometer up I have remember to check those this I don't even have to remember [TS]

01:05:42   to check its its annoying me on the watch face every day until it's complete [TS]

01:05:47   and so that like it actually does work I [TS]

01:05:52   before the watch came out I was concerned about the big sensor bulge in [TS]

01:05:56   the bottom of it for the fitness centers and I and I made a couple are marked as [TS]

01:05:58   friends saying like you know if they made a version that didn't have that [TS]

01:06:02   sensor bulge and lacked all the fitness features I'd rather have that version [TS]

01:06:06   because it would be thinner it might be more comfortable and having that bulge [TS]

01:06:09   there might be lighter blah blah blah yeah turns out I use those features I [TS]

01:06:14   love those features so I'm really glad there is no option not to have them [TS]

01:06:19   because they would have picked that option and I would have missed all this [TS]

01:06:21   and missed out on the health benefits and stuff there are so so yeah I'm I'm [TS]

01:06:25   very happy with this real-time follow up on my wife on an Apple ID she emphasizes [TS]

01:06:30   that the main reason why she doesn't want the watch is because you can wear [TS]

01:06:33   it work for security reasons I should have thought of that why it does have a [TS]

01:06:39   camera anything at the microphone thanks again everything with Bluetooth or [TS]

01:06:43   something that's so peculiar that lots of shows lots of security but anyway [TS]

01:06:48   yeah otherwise I assume she would get it just to try it out to see what it's like [TS]

01:06:53   yeah I would I'd like to echo everything I Marko said and we're gonna buy gas [TS]

01:06:59   rather than talk about a minute we'll just talk about it right now I did get [TS]

01:07:02   an apple watch I ended up i think i dirty talk about how he had ordered one [TS]

01:07:07   on launch day at about 7:10 after seven in the morning eastern time what ended [TS]

01:07:12   up happening was always loved this show that I'm sure was nice enough to offer [TS]

01:07:16   me a spare watch that he had had he became upon the spare watch because he [TS]

01:07:20   had ordered to the one that I always wanted which is the 42 millimeters space [TS]

01:07:24   black sports space great sport he ordered one of those and then ordered a [TS]

01:07:29   different want to believe it was the forty two millimeter white sport and [TS]

01:07:33   decided that he actually liked the white sport or whatever it was I'm pretty sure [TS]

01:07:38   that's right though and he was kind enough to offer to sell me the extra 42 [TS]

01:07:43   million no need space grey sport that he had and so that's what I did it was [TS]

01:07:49   extremely gracious of him he didn't need to do that he could have absolutely [TS]

01:07:53   raked over the coals in terms of cost so I am forever indebted to meet on but [TS]

01:07:58   anyways I got my Apple watch and I really like it [TS]

01:08:02   and hopefully by the time this airs I will put up my review of the Apple watch [TS]

01:08:06   on my blog and so hopefully you will see a link in the show notes if you don't [TS]

01:08:10   then yell at me to publish it but either way I completely agree with everything [TS]

01:08:14   you said that having the Rings as a complication which I do and seeing the [TS]

01:08:20   knowledge to stand up in seeing God I really need to just go for like a 10 [TS]

01:08:24   minute power walk around the neighborhood that absolutely has gotten [TS]

01:08:28   me moving more than I did before and yes maybe in a month or even in a week that [TS]

01:08:33   all go away and I'll just find this to be silly but today I love it and it's [TS]

01:08:39   absolutely causing me to move more our second bunch of this week is igloo igloo [TS]

01:08:45   isn't internet you will actually like with a glue you can share news organize [TS]

01:08:49   your files coordinate counters and manage projects all in one place it's [TS]

01:08:54   like taking the best of the web and productivity apps counters where like [TS]

01:08:58   microblogs file-sharing task management wikis and more all available privately [TS]

01:09:03   and securely for your company or group [TS]

01:09:06   internets are highly functional stylish easy to use with widget based [TS]

01:09:10   drag-n-drop interfaces they also have a have an upgrade this past fall and [TS]

01:09:15   spring called Viking which evolves around documents and how you interact [TS]

01:09:19   with them gather feedback and make changes they've even had the ability to [TS]

01:09:23   track who has read critical information on your internet to keep everyone on the [TS]

01:09:27   same page and Allegri receipts an email though it's annoying to help you track [TS]

01:09:31   whether employees have read it and acknowledged policies sign off on legal [TS]

01:09:35   agreements or confirm completion of training materials very important for [TS]

01:09:39   businesses to be able to have confirmation of those things and all [TS]

01:09:43   they do is built on a very advanced html5 platform it's fully responsive and [TS]

01:09:49   offers all the all these features all the features the the document tracking [TS]

01:09:53   annotations document viewing all sorts of stuff track things with it offers all [TS]

01:09:58   of this in html5 so you can do although their mobile devices it's really quite [TS]

01:10:03   impressive you can preview and edit documents and attractions all this stuff [TS]

01:10:07   no matter what device you're on full functionality whether it's computer [TS]

01:10:10   iPhone Android phone or even a blackberry they make it work on all [TS]

01:10:14   these devices [TS]

01:10:15   html5 and also because it's responsive it looks good and all those devices and [TS]

01:10:20   the new devices come out new screen sizes come out already works on them so [TS]

01:10:25   if your company has a legacy internet look it was built in the nineties you [TS]

01:10:28   should definitely give it a try [TS]

01:10:30   they are even completely free to use for as long as you want for groups of 10 or [TS]

01:10:35   fewer people so really if you have a small company or group for 10 if your [TS]

01:10:39   people in it you gotta give it a try but it's free what you have nothing to lose [TS]

01:10:43   if not you can go check it out and you should still give a try because it is [TS]

01:10:47   really very reasonably priced after that and really you can get and you get a [TS]

01:10:51   free trial of course so there's so much about a clue to like it is really for [TS]

01:10:55   businesses that needed internet which is most businesses you gotta check it out [TS]

01:10:59   it's so much better than everything else out there that does this so sign up for [TS]

01:11:02   a free trial today at igloo software dot com slash ATP igloo the internet you [TS]

01:11:08   will actually like thank you very much to a clue igloo software dot com slash [TS]

01:11:12   ATP yes please resist the urge to write your own Internet plays for everyone [TS]

01:11:17   involved and never works out [TS]

01:11:19   amen to that alright so Facebook came out with instant articles the gist of it [TS]

01:11:26   is that Facebook has now launched this platform system whatever you want to [TS]

01:11:32   call it for publishers like the new york times and BuzzFeed in TechCrunch like [TS]

01:11:36   four major publishers and I think it works by page but we'll see anyway [TS]

01:11:41   they've launched thing for publishers can now have articles that pop up and [TS]

01:11:47   can be read completely within the Facebook apps and the Facebook site at [TS]

01:11:52   least the apps after what matters most in demand for mobile stuff and and so [TS]

01:11:56   any idea here is interesting so you know there's so publishers so that the idea [TS]

01:12:02   is they don't want you going to the publishers websites to read them are [TS]

01:12:06   popping up a a WebView in the app on the New York Times dot com whatever they [TS]

01:12:12   want the article to display directly within the Facebook app natively in the [TS]

01:12:16   interface have have all the images and stuff loaded up there and and be able to [TS]

01:12:20   do dynamic cool animated stuff and everything else i I have a pretty [TS]

01:12:26   cynical view of this but i i think it's inevitable John Germany think so [TS]

01:12:31   the first part of those interested in with the instant part because just [TS]

01:12:34   technologically like you know this is a native app looks like it's by the simple [TS]

01:12:39   to the paper app I saw tweeted by Mike Matusow find out about us assume he's [TS]

01:12:43   involved it's very slick looking at the pitch to the user is your gonna launched [TS]

01:12:51   Facebook anyway you're going to school three years here you know your Facebook [TS]

01:12:54   feed right that's something you're going to do anyway when you see something [TS]

01:12:58   interesting in your Facebook feed [TS]

01:12:59   like someone posted I can article I go I saw this girl can you might wanna check [TS]

01:13:03   it out to Reston commentary when you tap on that whether it's like a movie [TS]

01:13:07   reviewer you know some things for you to be outraged about and then yelled out on [TS]

01:13:11   Facebook revered as they want you to be able to tap on that thing and not have [TS]

01:13:15   to wait for a web page they want you to tap and immediately be reading your [TS]

01:13:19   article right and of course all the demos thereof [TS]

01:13:21   from national geographic or something with a beautiful picture and or whatever [TS]

01:13:25   but as i think i emphasize like unlike marcos traditional criticism of paper [TS]

01:13:31   which is that the app looks great of all your friends are beautiful people who [TS]

01:13:34   are always on vacation in California adding that to the instant thing is like [TS]

01:13:41   okay well this is not articles to your friends made 20 articles in The New York [TS]

01:13:46   Times or you know poster whatever like these are professionally produced things [TS]

01:13:51   you know and the chances of them looking nice and enticing your timeline is [TS]

01:13:55   really high but they want to make it so that when you're going through a [TS]

01:13:58   timeline that you can consume knows as easily as you can read a comment for [TS]

01:14:02   somebody is going to tap on it and it instantly there and that is a if that [TS]

01:14:07   works as advertised [TS]

01:14:08   that's a great and user benefit because people do scroll through timelines and [TS]

01:14:13   people do want occasionally things and I know that I often feel I would like to [TS]

01:14:18   read that but I don't wanna wait for them to lower it sounds stupid it's like [TS]

01:14:20   you can't wait 2 seconds or something you like you're on wifi your iPhone 6 [TS]

01:14:24   not going to take any age too low but sometimes just like just the idea of the [TS]

01:14:27   screen blanking going through a spinner and having hit the back [TS]

01:14:30   blah blah just waiting for that number all spoiled but I wouldn't use the [TS]

01:14:36   analogy of like the studies that I think Google Yahoo did it ever like what does [TS]

01:14:40   an extra 200 milliseconds response time on a server due to the the purchase [TS]

01:14:44   rates of items in a store and it's like tremendous effects of a tiny speed [TS]

01:14:50   change of speed page loading you would think like shaving 200 milliseconds off [TS]

01:14:57   of the products page make a difference in sales and the answer was like yes a [TS]

01:15:02   tremendous difference like there's a huge cliff after which people just [TS]

01:15:04   aren't interested in lose you know and so that effect i think is real for [TS]

01:15:08   people as they say [TS]

01:15:10   Marco can filter the next my voice and my kids here [TS]

01:15:13   engaging with content as reading at a staff meeting the stuff that's in the [TS]

01:15:18   time like someone post a link to an article are you can actually read that [TS]

01:15:20   are going to go right past it if it loads quote-unquote instantly then you [TS]

01:15:25   won't and the reason I think this is an interesting reframing is because as we [TS]

01:15:28   all know I can't actually like this nothing instant all doing is preloading [TS]

01:15:33   it right that's all you know is just spending a different time doing it [TS]

01:15:37   rather than waiting and you know tons of browsers do is chrome I think was the [TS]

01:15:41   first one to really aggressively do it like prefetching all the pages link for [TS]

01:15:44   a page Google Prefecture as the first search results or chrome that you like [TS]

01:15:48   we're going to load it before you tap it so that by the time you tap it is loaded [TS]

01:15:52   it's also it's also presumably looking less stuff like you know it's probably [TS]

01:15:56   also not loading the million different JavaScript trackers a load some of them [TS]

01:16:01   because that is compatible with publishers tracking system that [TS]

01:16:04   publishers ad systems so it will be loading some of that stuff but I think I [TS]

01:16:08   think I would bet and you know it's not loading giant stylesheet giant [TS]

01:16:12   JavaScript includes for the site theme in the header and everything like you [TS]

01:16:16   don't think I'm I'm betting that it's it's only loading the article + tracking [TS]

01:16:23   stuff and add stuff like not necessarily the tremendous sidebars the all the [TS]

01:16:27   related content if you look at if you look at the typical article page 44 a [TS]

01:16:30   major site there's so much other crap on that page and so many includes for style [TS]

01:16:37   and Java stuff like this so much stuff a lot that's going to be there in the [TS]

01:16:41   Facebook version cuz they're gonna want their tracking [TS]

01:16:43   want their money and Facebook support those things but I bet it's going to be [TS]

01:16:47   a lot less than having like the headers and footers the sidebars all that crap [TS]

01:16:51   that though is loaded I was just thinking they're going to be more pills [TS]

01:16:54   again a richer experience which is code for gonna take it year downloads who's [TS]

01:16:58   gonna have a lot of stuff in it but you know it could it could be better there [TS]

01:17:01   is it's conceivable it'll be lighter weight due to the shared resources among [TS]

01:17:05   all the articles but but basically it's time shifting gets its clever pre [TS]

01:17:10   cashing of things that they that you know we will fetch it for you so that [TS]

01:17:14   when you tap it is there which is a great idea for thing but trying for an [TS]

01:17:18   application benefit but trying to sell that is instant I don't see how that can [TS]

01:17:22   can fulfill its promise because it's got it down the sink some time and if your [TS]

01:17:28   connection is slow and you launch the app and you scroll through it it's not [TS]

01:17:31   get any tap on the first thing you see and if it doesn't have you you know it's [TS]

01:17:35   gonna background downloading like I'm sure they do everything in their power [TS]

01:17:37   and that was a platform to try to get us that download it before you tap on it [TS]

01:17:40   but sometimes you're going to win the race and when you do that it's going to [TS]

01:17:44   be like to be instant because it won't it won't be instant is a reasonable [TS]

01:17:49   selling point that they can but like putting it right in the name may end up [TS]

01:17:53   backfiring so that's that's one thing just the simple technology behind what [TS]

01:17:58   is this thing what do the selling point for use of pepper well I mean do you [TS]

01:18:02   think the name is actually meant to be like this is why Facebook is doing it or [TS]

01:18:08   do you think the name is a red herring to convince people that they should do [TS]

01:18:11   this thing that massively benefits Facebook that's what I'm gas like this [TS]

01:18:15   this is the end user this is the end user story why would you be interested [TS]

01:18:19   in the future hinson articles you want to read them you know have to wait good [TS]

01:18:22   but it is it is the least interesting aspect of this feature from the sort of [TS]

01:18:26   strategic perspective the user's perspective is Facebook saying we want [TS]

01:18:32   to be the the place where people get your content don't send them to your [TS]

01:18:36   website in fact why even bother having website once you do everything through [TS]

01:18:39   us be able to create a network we can do kool ad targeting you could advertise [TS]

01:18:42   300 percent of the revenue from all the people who go through but it's totally [TS]

01:18:46   great guys come right in [TS]

01:18:47   you know like I hope all the content providers are smart enough to not sort [TS]

01:18:53   of fall into this trap because [TS]

01:18:55   it's giving Facebook if this if this was super successful and it became one of [TS]

01:18:59   those things like well you gotta have a facebook is an article you can't there's [TS]

01:19:02   no way you can get in traffic about doing that that spells bad news for [TS]

01:19:06   everybody several Facebook everybody consumers you know websites everybody [TS]

01:19:11   and so I really hope it doesn't succeed in 16 but like I kinda like and to do it [TS]

01:19:18   doesn't succeed not because it's not a benefit to the end user because I don't [TS]

01:19:22   want Facebook to be the the gateway for most of the things that people read [TS]

01:19:29   because no I don't I mean unfortunately I think that's the reality you know and [TS]

01:19:36   that you know i i think we've been feeling for a while and a lot of people [TS]

01:19:40   I don't think are are ready to to see or admit this yet but the web is really [TS]

01:19:46   dramatically losing relevance not the internet but the web [TS]

01:19:51   the the web is viewed in web browsers that is so dramatically losing relevance [TS]

01:19:56   in in the age of mobile and absent and they have stuff now and social stuff at [TS]

01:20:01   the web is losing its not going to die over the losing I feel like as it goes [TS]

01:20:08   in cycles and I you know I guess it's not gonna die you can't kill it because [TS]

01:20:13   it is available right but it does does going so it's kind of the same things [TS]

01:20:17   people said about giving Apple power by like you shouldn't have a website you [TS]

01:20:20   should just have a nap right and that's the same as I situation you would want [TS]

01:20:24   to get out of that power at all but the way it looks like a check out to me is [TS]

01:20:28   that every website has an appt but it is not made the websites go away and this [TS]

01:20:32   Facebook thing looks much more capable of making the web site's become like the [TS]

01:20:38   new york times out but there's no way the New York Times out is ever going to [TS]

01:20:41   make the New Times website go away as New York Times if there was a New York [TS]

01:20:45   Times instant article thing to Facebook just so much bigger than a pond already [TS]

01:20:48   has already succeeded so far gotten so far getting everybody to consume [TS]

01:20:53   everything through the Facebook feed that terrify like they're closer to [TS]

01:20:57   being able to suck publications in and make their websites irrelevant I mean [TS]

01:21:02   this is like this is way bigger than Google News ever was back in the day [TS]

01:21:06   that was a man that was a big deal and publishers were [TS]

01:21:08   trying to threaten to sue them but then they didn't want to block by them are [TS]

01:21:12   committed to that would be even more even more disastrous this is like that [TS]

01:21:15   times 10 I really do think that web browsing is really in trouble and as a [TS]

01:21:21   result publishers are in trouble I i read article with a terrible title about [TS]

01:21:26   this about a year ago or something I i think is very clear that all of this [TS]

01:21:31   social usage all the time people are spending using apps and using social [TS]

01:21:38   networks on their phones and stuff is some of that is attitude when people are [TS]

01:21:42   just waiting in line at the bank or something where they weren't doing these [TS]

01:21:45   things before but a lot of that is also time that has been taken away from [TS]

01:21:50   browsing the web reading publisher sites reading RSS and stuff like that for the [TS]

01:21:55   geeks like this is actually been all this this social activity is competing [TS]

01:22:03   with that and has taken a lot of it I do I worry a lot about the future of the [TS]

01:22:08   web I really don't think this is a small trend or a temporary thing or something [TS]

01:22:12   that that is guaranteed to just had the pendulum swing back the other way [TS]

01:22:16   eventually I think this is a major shift that people have voted with their time [TS]

01:22:22   and with their activity in with their attention they have voted for [TS]

01:22:26   centralized proprietary ecosystems focused on social and snack a political [TS]

01:22:32   traffic in these social networks Facebook mostly some Twitter stuff like [TS]

01:22:37   that like that people have voted that's what they're going that's what they want [TS]

01:22:41   the internet to be people on the whole don't care about the open web they don't [TS]

01:22:45   care about everyone having their own site of the only control and being able [TS]

01:22:49   to browse things through open standards people don't care a few keeps care even [TS]

01:22:53   we have moved so much of our activity to Twitter and stuff like this this is a [TS]

01:22:58   massive trend that I think it would be unwise to ignore and unfortunately you [TS]

01:23:04   know just like just like when we moved from the previous systems that we had to [TS]

01:23:09   the web [TS]

01:23:11   there was a lot of good that came from that a lot of big numbers that came with [TS]

01:23:15   that letter new abilities that came with that [TS]

01:23:17   but not everything transitioned over not everybody was a winner there and and a [TS]

01:23:23   lot of things just well you know that that that thing that used to work now [TS]

01:23:26   doesn't or that role that used to have now we don't need you anymore that is [TS]

01:23:31   that is happening now with with the move towards apps to move towards social [TS]

01:23:35   stuff and with so much traffic to web publishers now coming from mobile and [TS]

01:23:41   social music not coming from blog links and search engines and people browsing [TS]

01:23:47   and web browsers on the computers like that shift is happening and has happened [TS]

01:23:52   like that we are already very much into that shift characterized it does a [TS]

01:23:57   series of swings but not so much the pendulum one thing does supplant the [TS]

01:24:02   other but like almost in terms of that we're getting into a more balanced [TS]

01:24:06   situation now and the supremacy of the web was actually on balance because what [TS]

01:24:13   the website you do [TS]

01:24:14   originally was read stuff like articles ride and for a long time since that was [TS]

01:24:21   so dominant was like that defined the internet was the web right and what the [TS]

01:24:24   weather to do is read stuff people are spending a lot more of their time [TS]

01:24:28   reading stuff even if you want to RSS that and now we've shifted because [TS]

01:24:37   there's ways to do things other than read stuff you can text people text [TS]

01:24:41   messaging was one of the first steps now I'm writing stuff right you can play [TS]

01:24:45   games you can watch movies you can keep you know use native apps to do things [TS]

01:24:51   that are very different then you're reading a big page of stuff and so I [TS]

01:24:56   feel like this is an adjustment in terms of activity choices like people read the [TS]

01:25:01   web less because they're doing things more what are they doing on the phone [TS]

01:25:04   they're not doing the equivalent to bring the web they're doing something [TS]

01:25:06   different and why couldn't they do it on the web because the web take a long time [TS]

01:25:09   to get that kind of interactivity and everything [TS]

01:25:11   so I think maybe we're more in balance now the reason this instant article [TS]

01:25:16   thing is is scary because it is asking people to do the one thing that the web [TS]

01:25:22   you know is best suited for like you know reading stuff public publishing or [TS]

01:25:27   publishing platform anybody can make a website you can start publishing stuff [TS]

01:25:30   at the entire world can read it and what kind of stuff about a bunch of texts and [TS]

01:25:35   pictures right that is likely core competency of attacks reading things of [TS]

01:25:40   the web reading things if Facebook can get that into their you know it's not [TS]

01:25:44   even interactive things on a social network like for you know like a tard [TS]

01:25:47   the articles in The Social Network you're reading the article right if they [TS]

01:25:51   can pull that away from the web now you're really starting to pull the core [TS]

01:25:56   of like what the web what the web does in a non-proprietary way it's as if [TS]

01:26:01   someone tried to replace the email with the system that was exactly like email [TS]

01:26:04   but a hundred percent proprietary and that so far hasn't worked despite you [TS]

01:26:07   know being super terrible way worse than the weather wasn't terms of no [TS]

01:26:11   authentication spam and all the things that we had about email the weather like [TS]

01:26:15   up on that [TS]

01:26:16   well has that not worked how about I message not email like emails when you [TS]

01:26:20   write a long form thing but even text message like you would think that go [TS]

01:26:24   ahead a hundred ways I can write to somebody academic Twitter DMI corrected [TS]

01:26:27   them and slack I could do this like you that email survives despite it being [TS]

01:26:30   terrible Facebook messages are pretty big I know but you know i mean perhaps [TS]

01:26:36   the main thing keeping him alive is that you can even sign up for any service [TS]

01:26:39   that an email like it is the linchpin system right when you gonna put in the [TS]

01:26:42   you know i mean and I thought the web has the same longevity but it would be a [TS]

01:26:47   huge mistake for anybody publishing on the web to give Facebook too much power [TS]

01:26:50   and with web publication struggling to figure out their minds they sent [TS]

01:26:54   strategies and all this other stuff they are vulnerable to to do you know to [TS]

01:27:00   being like well we gotta do something and that's because the great advertising [TS]

01:27:03   platform that hoe gillian users and then you know you just wait a year in [TS]

01:27:06   Facebook's turning the screws me like actually show you are a lot of people as [TS]

01:27:10   you pass which is the whole big thing and just yeah that's the thing I mean [TS]

01:27:13   this is why this is such a terrible situation I mean I think because of the [TS]

01:27:20   move toward everything being mobile because so much [TS]

01:27:24   traffic to publishers websites now has to come from social services I'm not [TS]

01:27:28   sure the publishers have much of a choice you know it's it's just like when [TS]

01:27:31   Google News [TS]

01:27:32   you know when people threatened in middle block them and then like beg to [TS]

01:27:36   be let back in [TS]

01:27:37   there's all these like you know situation where one party has just [TS]

01:27:40   tremendous power on the web and publishers much have to play ball at [TS]

01:27:45   them because they can't afford not to have that audience on to have that [TS]

01:27:48   traffic Facebook is that platform today and publishers depends so much on [TS]

01:27:55   getting social traffic and Facebook is so good at delivering that traffic [TS]

01:28:01   sometimes only if you pay and being really cagey about it like this is of [TS]

01:28:07   course that's their plan of course their plan is to have is to move even more [TS]

01:28:11   activity in to Facebook its it comes from not only a position of greed but [TS]

01:28:18   also position of just arrogance like our appt is better than your website you [TS]

01:28:24   know you you're incapable of making pages to load quickly even though this [TS]

01:28:28   can be solved by smart web design and a good CD and a lot of times they're right [TS]

01:28:31   though unfortunately that's yet but not every time but anyway you know like they [TS]

01:28:35   this move is them just you know annexing more of the web like hey you know what [TS]

01:28:40   we are so powerful that you have to play ball with us we're going to offer this [TS]

01:28:44   thing now and our partners who use this their stuff is gonna ranked a lot higher [TS]

01:28:49   than a random link to an arbitrary site now and the timelines and turn the [TS]

01:28:55   screws right they are so good at that that's what they do you would think they [TS]

01:28:59   would figure it out by now my kind of music labels figured out after the [TS]

01:29:02   iTunes thing like maybe don't give one company too much power right you last [TS]

01:29:06   minute labels how they're doing right now [TS]

01:29:07   well but like I mean they eventually figured out and now it's kind of like [TS]

01:29:10   accepted wisdom in the in the digital publishing [TS]

01:29:13   you know digital media like music movies or whatever that it is a huge mistake to [TS]

01:29:18   put all your eggs in the basket one technology company despite the fact that [TS]

01:29:20   all the media companies have proven they can do the technology themselves they've [TS]

01:29:23   learned I think just just received wisdom now even if you can't just take [TS]

01:29:29   yourself but you can't because you never give one company all your stuff never [TS]

01:29:34   level get too big never let Amazon get too big never let you know like and they [TS]

01:29:37   all know that right and maybe they know it too well and are being stubborn with [TS]

01:29:42   things like TV with a view to making progress bottle blob you would think in [TS]

01:29:45   the web they would also know that by now as well that like any of those look at [TS]

01:29:48   your books on Amazon like oh boy that was a big mistake they give Amazon a [TS]

01:29:52   much power in the book industry and they tried to balance it with apple and you [TS]

01:29:56   know that I'm quite work out the way they wanted to read so I'm hoping [TS]

01:30:00   everybody web publishing even though they're in the same dire situation of [TS]

01:30:02   like we can't figure out how to monetize became reach our audience socialist [TS]

01:30:05   takeover Baba hope that someone in the meeting like raises their hand and says [TS]

01:30:10   this is all good and all and I love these numbers in the projections and [TS]

01:30:14   blah blah blah but we really need to hedge because if we put all our eggs in [TS]

01:30:18   the Facebook basket they will own us it will be bad I I think you're right they [TS]

01:30:23   should be saying that however I don't they have another choice that's and [TS]

01:30:27   that's why Facebook can do this this is like the Internet is really a week we [TS]

01:30:31   like to think that the Internet is this platform that enables all this openness [TS]

01:30:34   in everything it does and it can but it also enables massive consolidation of [TS]

01:30:40   power and consolidation of attention and using proprietary lockdown systems we [TS]

01:30:45   keep seeing it again and and that's only going to continue and it's a very clear [TS]

01:30:51   that when you have these centralized systems like facebook like Twitter like [TS]

01:30:56   Amazon you you can you can offer benefits that like Google you can even [TS]

01:31:00   offer benefit the get people in in such massive numbers that you could get a [TS]

01:31:05   trip like that that private company gets a tremendous amount of power and can [TS]

01:31:09   basically dictator terms to the rest of the world then everything like we're [TS]

01:31:13   saying this is really potentially really bad and they shouldn't give Facebook [TS]

01:31:16   overpowered the Fed is Facebook already has power and if someone's not gonna [TS]

01:31:20   play ball with Facebook they're gonna start losing Facebook search traffic or [TS]

01:31:24   Facebook social traffic [TS]

01:31:25   and they're gonna be there gonna be forced to play ball they're going to [TS]

01:31:28   their hands are gonna be forced well they've got the same game plan as the [TS]

01:31:32   music label that you're going to find a projection [TS]

01:31:35   they're only they're they're best in their only hedges unfortunately to try [TS]

01:31:39   to spread a little bit of your content to another proprietary centralized [TS]

01:31:44   things like in other words Twitter with the cards and whatever like a plate [TS]

01:31:48   whatever baseballs and each other [TS]

01:31:50   Facebook just some of the bigger than that anyway but that's what they've got [TS]

01:31:54   the option is let's also keep talking to Twitter about their thing and whatever [TS]

01:31:58   new social network thing like let's also talk to them about like no exclusivity [TS]

01:32:02   deals try to hedge your bets the best you can Zoe music was nothing when [TS]

01:32:09   iTunes was done it but by being given tons of attention by being given DRM [TS]

01:32:14   free music before I was given it by all the music labels and everything it [TS]

01:32:17   helped to make Amazon into perhaps not the competitive they all wish it was but [TS]

01:32:21   at least iTunes is now not the only game in town or Spotify and other streaming [TS]

01:32:26   services even that the streaming services I I bet music labels want to [TS]

01:32:30   spread things around the difference dreams are as they wouldn't like one to [TS]

01:32:32   be dominated just something that tends to happen Amazon is a massively dominant [TS]

01:32:38   online commerce Walmart is massively diamond in the USA and retail Facebook [TS]

01:32:42   is massively dominant online social a bummer but there's something else here [TS]

01:32:47   though which i think is is worth pointing out that there's a difference [TS]

01:32:49   in the power balance between your example that you just gave the most part [TS]

01:32:52   and and this which is like you know if if if you're popular kind of product is [TS]

01:32:57   constantly being searched for on Amazon and Amazon doesn't have it that makes [TS]

01:33:00   them look bad and was like 10 needs that it was the music label negotiations but [TS]

01:33:04   there's only one for music labels you know if if a big music store launches [TS]

01:33:09   and they don't have one of them that's a big problem that's like it's going to [TS]

01:33:12   result in a lot of people looking for stuff not finding it and that negatively [TS]

01:33:16   affecting the chance they're going to keep you in the music service or keep [TS]

01:33:19   buying that store even keep bothering to search their with Facebook and these [TS]

01:33:23   publishers Facebook doesn't really need any of them like at all like this is [TS]

01:33:27   this is purely for the publishers benefit to be in this system if the [TS]

01:33:32   publishers if anyone publisher or any group publishes decide they're not gonna [TS]

01:33:35   do it [TS]

01:33:36   Facebook couldn't possibly care lest they don't need them [TS]

01:33:39   need them but they want them they want they want their place to be the gateway [TS]

01:33:42   to that they don't want i mean you know share on Facebook like you can go to [TS]

01:33:45   website and the share on the news every article share article in every possible [TS]

01:33:48   social service but that's not the integration of people but Facebook want [TS]

01:33:53   they want you to go to Facebook to find our cannot go to the website to find the [TS]

01:33:56   article minute share button to share with people typically do want to do that [TS]

01:33:59   because they want people to be you know looking at things on Facebook but it's [TS]

01:34:02   the inversion of like you know website what website we only knew the only you [TS]

01:34:07   publish your content to our system on our terms to the people we say you can [TS]

01:34:10   you can retried and I guess the web [TS]

01:34:12   keeping the website themselves their edge on that but like I don't know what [TS]

01:34:18   the best move for them as they do need to reach people like I can think about [TS]

01:34:21   is how much it could be worse like imagine if Facebook and YouTube like [TS]

01:34:26   we'd all be screwed like it's game over just is and YouTube itself is pretty [TS]

01:34:32   dominant but then you said twitchy like well maybe you to achieve YouTube Google [TS]

01:34:37   aunt which now I keep my forget didn't have any way to consolidation is evil [TS]

01:34:43   everything old is new again and so I suspect that before too long will be [TS]

01:34:48   seen keywords on commercials and we'll talk about that right after this [TS]

01:34:52   commercial our final budget this week is AOL it's where space is where space is [TS]

01:35:00   the online platform that makes it fast and easy to create your own professional [TS]

01:35:04   website portfolio and online store for a free trial and 10% office where [TS]

01:35:08   space.com enter offer code ATP at checkout [TS]

01:35:12   Squarespace has tons of great features everything is of course responsive [TS]

01:35:17   drag-and-drop easy to use they have a ridiculous amount of power bill do this [TS]

01:35:22   platform [TS]

01:35:23   space 7 launched last fall and now it's even more integrated with what you see [TS]

01:35:27   is what you get kind of environment where now there is no more distinction [TS]

01:35:31   between the editing interface and the publishing and the publisher site you [TS]

01:35:36   just edit the site right there like you hit a little anything in the corner and [TS]

01:35:40   the toolbar slides in and you're editing the site live right there and you don't [TS]

01:35:45   have to publish or change you can keep track of everything but the fact is this [TS]

01:35:49   bouncing between these two totally different [TS]

01:35:52   worlds of the editing versus the live site it's all just right there very well [TS]

01:35:56   integrated and of course where space gives you fully responsive design [TS]

01:36:01   optimized for mobile you can now even preview the Mobile layout in a regular [TS]

01:36:05   browser can simulate those with for you and and you know it's it's just so [TS]

01:36:09   powerful so easy everything is graphical drag-n-drop widgets you can put in photo [TS]

01:36:15   galleries blog post whatever the case headlines whatever whatever you wanna do [TS]

01:36:18   you can put all of that right into your site drag-n-drop very easy if you do [TS]

01:36:23   want to customize things even further like the geeks like us you can insert [TS]

01:36:27   JavaScript and CSS and just arbitrary HTML into your headers and footers right [TS]

01:36:32   in this Christmas interface so we do a couple of minor tweaks like that to our [TS]

01:36:35   site tomorrow you know tonight with some of the layout stuff and it's great you [TS]

01:36:40   know you just inject JavaScript in his works it's so much power with where [TS]

01:36:45   space is really incredible you can also they have you know all these great [TS]

01:36:49   templates for you to use so you don't have to really worry that much about [TS]

01:36:53   your design if you don't want to and if you do want to you can customize them [TS]

01:36:57   like crazy if you want to put in images you can of course upload your own and [TS]

01:37:02   you can also they have a partnership with Getty Images where you can search a [TS]

01:37:06   very big portion of Katie's catalog and you can buy a stock photo for only 10 [TS]

01:37:10   bucks to use anywhere in your site on Squarespace so whether it's you know a [TS]

01:37:15   header footer background to a big splash cover pages are really cool features a [TS]

01:37:20   big cover pages you can get this nice cool look forward and image for a blog [TS]

01:37:25   post you can do all that right within their with Getty Images partnership [TS]

01:37:28   really quite good you can have a store you can sell stuff physical or digital [TS]

01:37:32   goods commerce functionality is entirely built in no additional charge comes on [TS]

01:37:37   the plans it is really great Squarespace does so much good stuff really don't [TS]

01:37:43   build your own site if you don't need to just go to Squarespace it's so much [TS]

01:37:46   easier believe me that's what we do [TS]

01:37:48   could recommend them enough it is beautiful it is simple and powerful Dec [TS]

01:37:51   24 7 support all this is just eight bucks a month and you get a FREE domain [TS]

01:37:57   if you by Squarespace for the year up front and eight bucks a month with our [TS]

01:38:01   coupon code ATP gets 10% off your first purchase [TS]

01:38:05   really I can't say enough good things must see for yourself you don't take my [TS]

01:38:10   word for it see for yourself goes journey free trial they don't ask you [TS]

01:38:13   for a credit card and you can just go start a real free trial today no credit [TS]

01:38:17   card required just tried out the site you you'll be amazed how easy it is and [TS]

01:38:21   how much you can do when you decide to sign up once again use our coupon code [TS]

01:38:25   ATP eating a 10% off your first purchase thank you very much to Squarespace for [TS]

01:38:28   supporting our show Squarespace start here go anywhere [TS]

01:38:33   Verizon bought a oh well which is weird what's that all about [TS]

01:38:41   I don't know some people said it was about ad technology I i dont know that [TS]

01:38:45   seems to make sense to me cuz what else could it be about dial-up I don't mean [TS]

01:38:50   they do have a bunch of popular websites and some of the spin has been like I was [TS]

01:38:54   content with that like having them posters TechCrunch there's two like they [TS]

01:38:58   have a bunch of properties like it would be like holding company at this point [TS]

01:39:01   but from everything I've read about the CEO did to make the the the company [TS]

01:39:07   desirable as acquisition is focused on how like trying to make this company a [TS]

01:39:14   compliment for the things that other companies I need to know so that their [TS]

01:39:17   advertising technology to serve serve rich as video and the people targeted [TS]

01:39:24   you know if someone is looking for that ability and the ability to reach a large [TS]

01:39:29   number of people that's what aol has backed themselves up into an exalted [TS]

01:39:33   depressing numbers of like how lol stolen from you know the time and they [TS]

01:39:37   were doing the time-warner merger for 380 billion or whatever they sold [TS]

01:39:41   himself or part of it is like the name AOL like the company's always been [TS]

01:39:46   increasingly more than what we think overall we think of AOL [TS]

01:39:50   but then I just think about all those people to start charging for diabetes [TS]

01:39:53   angry is the locus to lowercase who had just like looks like AOL and angry and [TS]

01:39:59   well not because I think like that its people shouldn't have dialogue but I'm [TS]

01:40:04   angry like at our situation in this country that if your best internet [TS]

01:40:08   option within your budget is is dialogue on AOL we are failing as a as a country [TS]

01:40:14   you know like I feel like this plane broadband affordable broadband access [TS]

01:40:20   should be important enough that it should be subsidized you know maybe not [TS]

01:40:26   subsidize but like we should whatever we have to do to make it affordable as at [TS]

01:40:30   as at affordable as having a telephone line is that's what internet access [TS]

01:40:33   should be and if your only option is literal dial up over a modem to AOL then [TS]

01:40:39   things have gone horribly wrong [TS]

01:40:40   yeah I'd say so I don't have been Thompson a pretty good take on this that [TS]

01:40:45   I skimmed very quickly before we recorded and it seems like it is about [TS]

01:40:51   and technology I don't know it's just there has a bunch of internet properties [TS]

01:40:58   like TechCrunch for example in there was a time where I really hated TechCrunch [TS]

01:41:01   but I actually have come back around and it helps that our friend Matt pincer [TS]

01:41:06   knows there there's a lot of really good properties there and I'm gonna be fairly [TS]

01:41:12   sad when Verizon inevitably forces editorial opinions on all of them but [TS]

01:41:17   they will sell them before they do that I would assume that if not interesting [TS]

01:41:21   content themselves things off maybe I mean they they probably do make money [TS]

01:41:25   though I don't know it I've never worked in a bit publisher I have no idea how [TS]

01:41:31   you know in theory they all attempt to maintain editorial independence from [TS]

01:41:36   their corporate donors it in practice I don't know how hard that is it if I had [TS]

01:41:42   to guess I'm guessing that they can usually do that most of the time but [TS]

01:41:47   maybe some time to get we are too hard I don't know I don't have Verizon is like [TS]

01:41:51   roger ailes I don't think they have a big you know ideological slanted they're [TS]

01:41:55   going to impose on the Huffington Post in tech [TS]

01:41:57   yeah probably not the Verizon tracking cookies all the sites you know that [TS]

01:42:03   because already on their network anyway like Verizon just want your eyeballs and [TS]

01:42:08   your monthly check right and so this is just furthering their goals they would [TS]

01:42:13   it be to me think of someone who would rather have had bio AOL will be rather a [TS]

01:42:18   table go bankrupt like what is the alternative scenarios for the future of [TS]

01:42:23   AOL that we would like better than Verizon I mean I got him getting out is [TS]

01:42:28   that it's not I didn't you know sort of cringe when I saw this announcement the [TS]

01:42:34   same way I did when I saw like Facebook bought Instagram right sometimes you see [TS]

01:42:37   a consolidation like I know right [TS]

01:42:40   this one it's like yeah alright I mean like to be worse right like Verizon [TS]

01:42:45   could murder of Comcast like to share many more storms they scenarios than [TS]

01:42:48   than Verizon by the AOL any Verizon could just agree to just stop competing [TS]

01:42:53   with comcast is not putting out fires can only do that with billions and [TS]

01:42:59   billions of speaking of subsidies of billions and billions of dollars and the [TS]

01:43:02   government they need more billions now well could talk I guess doing is a [TS]

01:43:09   result the same [TS]

01:43:10   Verizon Business had to say is that it's of all the murders that have taken place [TS]

01:43:15   June big companies this one seems like all right whatever is this so the AOL [TS]

01:43:26   Time Warner thing between that and HP Compaq which was the worst merger in [TS]

01:43:32   history [TS]

01:43:33   AOL Time Warner that was bigger than XP compact yeah because HP Compaq of these [TS]

01:43:37   like were similar indeed similar things and its consolidation that made some [TS]

01:43:42   sense especially in a market where Microsoft was grabbing ever larger [TS]

01:43:45   values of the PC market and hardware vendors are being pushed harder and [TS]

01:43:49   harder that is going to be consolidation among them and they both had 10 of an [TS]

01:43:52   enterprise angle like HP Compaq make some sense and it looks bad because the [TS]

01:43:56   entire PC sector is contracting as Microsoft sucked all the oxygen out of [TS]

01:44:00   it [TS]

01:44:00   fantasy of life the Internet in Hollywood are together [TS]

01:44:04   and TV shows like this is just a fantasy of some c-level executives had like [TS]

01:44:10   billions of dollars in little birdies and starts spinning around people's [TS]

01:44:14   heads thinking this is going to be the new journey not just like you know I [TS]

01:44:21   thought that was a much bigger disaster response this week [TS]

01:44:26   cards against humanity igloo and Squarespace and we will see you next [TS]

01:44:30   week now the show is over they didn't even mean to begin accidental accidental [TS]

01:44:42   john Kasay [TS]

01:44:49   it was accidental and a team markle [TS]

01:45:32   talk about your audio engine talk about that now to say I'm working on my [TS]

01:45:38   streaming engine which engine is this 141 number one attempt number for every [TS]

01:45:46   every couple of days on Twitter somebody asks the overcast account when you get [TS]

01:45:51   ahead streaming God finally you know someone that and they do have a point to [TS]

01:45:55   you and you doing the voice for the final thing but streaming was discussed [TS]

01:45:59   on this very program along time ago as an important upcoming feature for [TS]

01:46:03   overcast yeah my goal was to add it like last fall that hasn't happened yet and [TS]

01:46:08   it's not because I have been working on it it's because I haven't cut it to work [TS]

01:46:12   I making progress and I haven't you know I have been working on only streaming in [TS]

01:46:19   overcast for the last year or whatever like I've been doing other things as [TS]

01:46:23   well yeah like walking near talk like walking might as well as testing of [TS]

01:46:27   against the simple stuff like you know like the entire rest of the appetite [TS]

01:46:33   been working on something that I have I have tried to write a streaming engine [TS]

01:46:39   for overcast on a number of occasions and I keep doing it badly the 17 writing [TS]

01:46:45   over the last two weeks is significantly better ever gotten significantly further [TS]

01:46:51   and got with any other attempts before I think I'll be able to do it I i think [TS]

01:46:57   the 1 I'm writing now is going to be the one so John deals in the chat asking is [TS]

01:47:03   there an off the shelf streaming solution I have looked at a couple of [TS]

01:47:06   package to have even tried to integrate some of them that that claim to offer [TS]

01:47:10   this none of them have worked for me and and some of them some of them they [TS]

01:47:15   haven't worked for me because they have just annoying shortcomings that that [TS]

01:47:20   would be a problem in my app things like oh we you know this will support [TS]

01:47:24   streaming of everything except mp4 files that's a bit of a problem for podcasts [TS]

01:47:29   and any AAC encoder podcast is wrapped in an mp4 container simple things like [TS]

01:47:34   no way to get id3 information that might be a problem for me in the future I [TS]

01:47:39   wanna parts that you know no ability to stoop to jump around [TS]

01:47:44   in certain formats in certain cases like there's there's there's problems [TS]

01:47:47   limitation with a lot of the package is out there that if you're writing an app [TS]

01:47:51   where you are streaming from a known set of sources that you know like if you [TS]

01:47:56   control the source and then you can say well we're only going to serve mp3 [TS]

01:48:00   format streams for instance and so you know what you're gonna be reading and [TS]

01:48:04   you have control over that you love more options [TS]

01:48:07   first of all if you don't need smart speed you need a player like that the [TS]

01:48:12   basic things like for for most people you don't need to be working at this [TS]

01:48:17   level because most applications eighty player will work just fine for you the [TS]

01:48:24   only reason they need to get this level is to get smart speed working now [TS]

01:48:27   another option they can make soros has a radio this this is the this is one of [TS]

01:48:32   the only other apps that has silenced getting as a feature I met him at a news [TS]

01:48:37   conference this year is really nice guy and I asked him why I know that he [TS]

01:48:41   supports streaming and he has found skipping and asked him how he did it and [TS]

01:48:44   he said he just doesn't have sound skipping and effects when its treatment [TS]

01:48:50   and he he just has two different paths in the code we're like if he's playing a [TS]

01:48:55   video or playing audio file office stream he just uses every player and [TS]

01:49:01   then if he's not uses his other audio effects and I could do I could go down [TS]

01:49:06   that route 2 I'm just choosing not to so I could have offered streaming at the [TS]

01:49:11   very beginning and just say well you can stream but just then smart speed won't [TS]

01:49:16   work in a few street I just choosing I don't want that like i don't i don't [TS]

01:49:20   want that to my solution I want I want smart speed invoice boost and other [TS]

01:49:24   affected you in the future I want those all to be available no matter what the [TS]

01:49:28   source of the of the audio is whether you're streaming it whether you know [TS]

01:49:31   whether you're playing off a local file etc also a TV Player you can't save the [TS]

01:49:35   contents of a stream and I don't like that I would like I think if your gonna [TS]

01:49:40   stream data ones you should be able to write that data to local disk and you [TS]

01:49:44   know be able to play it offline afterwards if you want to so again [TS]

01:49:49   limitation with the built-in stuff I could have used different modes wrestled [TS]

01:49:53   well this moody up his limitations I'd rather not do that [TS]

01:49:56   I'll just have one smart solid system that applies the same rules a matter of [TS]

01:50:01   the data comes from and give you the same features of the data comes so [TS]

01:50:05   that's why I'm doing it the hard way and it's very hard and that that might not [TS]

01:50:08   be the right answer that this might be a terrible idea it might not be worth it [TS]

01:50:13   but this is how you do it like once you kind of really from reading your [TS]

01:50:19   messages seems like if any of the steering frameworks gave you a place to [TS]

01:50:23   sort of insert your own code into the stream where you could do you smart [TS]

01:50:27   sweet stuff you'd you'd be all set but never none of them seem to give you that [TS]

01:50:30   low-level access because they always assume you know will take everything for [TS]

01:50:34   you just pointed to the stream and we'll get the others like no I won't I need to [TS]

01:50:37   be in there any to look at the bites close by and do stuff with it right so [TS]

01:50:41   what you're essentially doing is a lot of work to be done for you and other [TS]

01:50:45   frameworks just even get that one access point is this correct characterization [TS]

01:50:48   oh yeah that's that's that's part of it and even just like just the way the [TS]

01:50:54   frameworks work the way they're structured the way I like how the code [TS]

01:50:57   does certain things there's there's a couple of different low-level audio AP [TS]

01:51:01   eyes that you could be using I have to be working at basically the lowest level [TS]

01:51:06   to do what I do and and so some of them don't work at a level that low some of [TS]

01:51:11   them do but in a weird way that has limitations like this [TS]

01:51:14   some of them are basically is doing what I'm doing and I can just look at them [TS]

01:51:16   and see you know some tricks they do or something you know somewhere thing but [TS]

01:51:20   for the most part now another figure out the right way to do it I think I think [TS]

01:51:26   I'm making good progress so I'll get there has to be your new Instapaper [TS]

01:51:30   tableview gridview it's like you do this thing you found out you gotta think I am [TS]

01:51:35   streaming engine supports all the features to iOS releases later they [TS]

01:51:38   ad looks taller API's that you could do smart like that's just that's gotta do [TS]

01:51:44   what you gotta do but I don't know maybe maybe this will never be important [TS]

01:51:47   enough for them to do like the collection views was eventually [TS]

01:51:50   important nothing to do but it's tons of apps have abused like that of arbitrary [TS]

01:51:54   grades of items reordering and blah blah blah but I'm not sure how many apps care [TS]

01:51:58   about the low-level audio access that you need so maybe your be safe yeah and [TS]

01:52:03   and like you know eighty player can support voice boost even like you can do [TS]

01:52:08   audio effects and TV Player you guys can adjust the time scale of the audio so [TS]

01:52:12   you can do any effect that that take in and out put the same number of samples [TS]

01:52:16   you can do that maybe player no problem [TS]

01:52:19   well it's not easy but you can do it but anything that is just the timescale [TS]

01:52:23   dynamically you can't and that is what smart speed needs to do one of the [TS]

01:52:29   questions in the chat let me see Cody explorer s that's why is streaming in [TS]

01:52:34   such demand if you have wifi downloading an individual facilitates a 10 seconds [TS]

01:52:38   when its low that's a good point you know I've gotten along this far without [TS]

01:52:43   having streaming one could argue as I've asked myself many times as I keep [TS]

01:52:47   failing to do it properly [TS]

01:52:49   one could ask like do I do I ever need streaming and the answer is I think I [TS]

01:52:56   can get away without it forever if I need to but it would be better with it [TS]

01:53:00   for two or three main reasons 11 very big use case that people always ask for [TS]

01:53:06   the night can satisfy is a lot of you prefer to run their clients and [TS]

01:53:10   streaming only mode and the big advantage here is that you never have to [TS]

01:53:14   download big chunks so many like an episode that comes in that you don't [TS]

01:53:19   actually listening to you didn't download that CD that data and also it [TS]

01:53:23   takes up no disk space basically you have some space for like cashing in [TS]

01:53:27   artwork and database stuff like that but compared to when you're down an entire [TS]

01:53:31   episode like fifty or a hundred megs that's a very little space and people so [TS]

01:53:36   often who have like the 16 gig iPhone that for some reason Apple is still [TS]

01:53:39   selling they can be very low on space so if you can have a motive your podcast [TS]

01:53:45   app that doesn't utilize disk space that's there's a lot of people who want [TS]

01:53:48   that [TS]

01:53:48   secondarily no matter how fast your connection [TS]

01:53:51   is if there's an episode that you want to listen to right now and it is not [TS]

01:53:54   downloaded to tap it and to have to sit there and wait for the whole thing to [TS]

01:53:58   download before you even start sucks even if it only sucks for five seconds [TS]

01:54:03   that still sucks many and many cases it's gonna suck for longer than the [TS]

01:54:07   reality is not everybody has fast wifi not everybody is on wifi not everyone [TS]

01:54:12   some connection to that fast so if you can tap and start playback soon [TS]

01:54:18   immediately if that is better like no question that is better forget about the [TS]

01:54:22   wifi in the cell connections my I have fast all of those things it takes [TS]

01:54:27   forever to download some podcasts because the hosting is slow [TS]

01:54:31   that is my biggest complaint about streaming is like if I forget to [TS]

01:54:33   download a podcast and I have to you know go to work [TS]

01:54:36   you look at it it's like what is this doing 200 k per second forget it will [TS]

01:54:40   I'm not going to sit here and wait 15 minutes and is not because of my [TS]

01:54:43   connection that's because the server can't feed me the bites fast enough and [TS]

01:54:47   I blame your background downloader yeah if I had to pick one time I'm not big on [TS]

01:54:52   stream I like the fact that will be able to play play i I would like a hybrid [TS]

01:54:57   mode where it starts playing as soon as possible but it still down but that [TS]

01:55:00   featured I must get it tonight about it overcast is why isn't this downloading I [TS]

01:55:05   don't know why it's downloading I know you have to like start all stop all [TS]

01:55:08   thing happens sometimes I know you thought about that but the background [TS]

01:55:11   download firmware everything you do [TS]

01:55:13   mysterious to me there is no indication in the UI and nothing I can do about it [TS]

01:55:17   to say other than sometimes pause and restart pause and restart do something [TS]

01:55:20   starts happening I always want to know what are you waiting to download just [TS]

01:55:24   thought I would also like to know that [TS]

01:55:26   yeah unfortunately this framework do not give you that information you could sell [TS]

01:55:31   it start downloading this and you know it started when you get the first bite [TS]

01:55:34   right unlike a software update running in the background ahead of you in the [TS]

01:55:37   queue you know taking your spot in the background cute and eight and he's in [TS]

01:55:42   the changes mentioned within my third point which is you know let's say I [TS]

01:55:46   wanna be a feature where you can view a share link [TS]

01:55:48   natively in the abbot somebody says check out this podcast they was so funny [TS]

01:55:52   at this minute and that middle is an hour into the show if you can open up at [TS]

01:55:57   Lincoln overcast and start that play back at that point you have to download [TS]

01:56:00   the entire file before that the whole first hour of the show you can download [TS]

01:56:04   a few bites get the header information and then jump ahead with a range request [TS]

01:56:08   and get like and then only download the part from your play head forward so [TS]

01:56:15   that's also a very compelling case that could be very useful in the future if i [TS]

01:56:19   if i do more social features and stuff like that so there there are all these [TS]

01:56:23   features even right now like when a new download comes in youth notification [TS]

01:56:27   right now the only thing can offer on that is a dismissed but I can't wait [TS]

01:56:32   until the download it and then notify the local don't like that and the timely [TS]

01:56:35   what people want most of the time they want to know when it out so I notify [TS]

01:56:39   when it out it would be ideal if I could have a button on the notification that [TS]

01:56:43   said play for the people who want to play and medially and again it's one [TS]

01:56:47   more feature I can't do really well until they have streaming so there's [TS]

01:56:51   there's a whole bunch of these like little feature alumni cities that are [TS]

01:56:54   all being held up by my lack of streaming and so that's that's why I'm [TS]

01:56:59   working on this [TS]

01:57:00   yes I can get along forever about it but the Apple be a lot better with it and so [TS]

01:57:06   that's why I'm doing it that's why it's worth all the trouble and I think I i've [TS]

01:57:10   gotten pretty far with this latest attempt by I think I really onto [TS]

01:57:14   something here I think this might be this might be the one guys might have [TS]

01:57:18   found the one number 42 you sit you looked at a bunch of different packages [TS]

01:57:24   in order to do this for you and you said that they didn't work out of curiosity [TS]

01:57:28   did you create anything particularly useful for many of these different open [TS]

01:57:32   source packages or was that basically wasted time I looked at some of them [TS]

01:57:36   just like just like how they use some of the API is right but I don't i didnt [TS]

01:57:41   even copy and paste the code out from them at different or that that [TS]

01:57:46   unsuitable for my task like it was more like a general overview of like that's [TS]

01:57:50   interesting like they don't use a buffer here or order using the audio file AP I [TS]

01:57:55   here or there are these in this weird call here like it that it that kind like [TS]

01:58:00   it is good like a look at them because they're open source stuff but [TS]

01:58:04   they haven't been as useful as I would have hoped but for the most part like I [TS]

01:58:08   would rather be the case honestly I would rather I to myself I can for lots [TS]

01:58:12   of reasons part of it because I'm just that kind of arrogant programmer part of [TS]

01:58:16   it because I want to understand what's happening is this is you know I read the [TS]

01:58:21   rest of my ideal engine this is the crew is a pretty critical part of it and buy [TS]

01:58:25   right amount Audioengine [TS]

01:58:27   able to do so much in the app so many little custom things like one of [TS]

01:58:32   Pakistan's looking at basically in order to use our have to replace most of my [TS]

01:58:37   audio engine with it and I tried even just trying to integrate that just tried [TS]

01:58:42   it but in like all the different things that I have to try to wedge [TS]

01:58:47   even even having access to their source code just the amount of work and change [TS]

01:58:51   and bug potential there was creating by trying to just match the features I have [TS]

01:58:58   now using their audio engine it would it was more work to do that [TS]

01:59:03   that it would have been just write my own even if it takes a year to do it if [TS]

01:59:07   you considered writing it and go fast speed with the problem but it's not [TS]