The Accidental Tech Podcast

105: Do You Want to Sell Sugar Phones for the Rest of Your Life?


00:00:00   market you're totally right margo you're totally right Marco you're totally right [TS]

00:00:02   where does Apple you score data John I know this question marks after all those [TS]

00:00:09   bullet points in the people he called us and told us and i couldnt find those [TS]

00:00:15   emails I think this is far from last week when I think marco was talking [TS]

00:00:21   saying that he didn't know where Apple used card and it was in response to your [TS]

00:00:24   data sync in particular the iCloud Core Data Sync that was a disaster [TS]

00:00:29   yes not just plain old core data and this is in response to the idea that [TS]

00:00:33   Apple what which APS Apple dog food and by the way we did someone email dog [TS]

00:00:38   footing mean I sent him that we could be dealing with it it just means using your [TS]

00:00:42   own stuff like if you're making an ABI in this specific case and you don't use [TS]

00:00:46   that API yourself chances are we'll be that great because you won't know the [TS]

00:00:49   pain of using it like we made an API for you go use it but we don't know what [TS]

00:00:52   it's like you don't have to use it anyway the suggestions I think people [TS]

00:00:56   sent us for Apple applications that use CoreData iCloud syncing are the trailers [TS]

00:01:01   app on iOS and sinking for keyboard shortcuts between Mac and iOS was that [TS]

00:01:06   the only reason we got sent that so once I saw yes yeah and what's funny so so [TS]

00:01:11   the trailers nap you know find that's how much data is that actually syncing [TS]

00:01:16   between devices and that's fine [TS]

00:01:19   keyboard shortcuts think I've actually heard many people complaining of the [TS]

00:01:25   shortcuts are not syncing so if that is using Core Data iCloud syncing that is [TS]

00:01:31   really not a good recommendation for even if it's just too obscure apps to [TS]

00:01:36   the kind of you know the exception that proves the rule is not something that [TS]

00:01:39   underlies like their major apps unlike for example cloud kit which they're [TS]

00:01:43   building major applications like photos and everything on top of words like it [TS]

00:01:46   that doesn't work people are gonna notice whereas if the trailers are [TS]

00:01:49   operating keyboard shortcuts Inc doesn't work maybe some piano but it's not like [TS]

00:01:52   you know it's destroying their family photos when I was when was it was when [TS]

00:01:59   iOS eat was in beta I believe I don't even think that I had upgraded any of my [TS]

00:02:07   devices time to the beach at this point but my keyboard keyboard shortcuts was [TS]

00:02:12   completely bored until I had everything on Iowa State yosemite and it was [TS]

00:02:18   infuriating dunno if you if you notice about me gentlemen but I tend to use [TS]

00:02:22   emoji occasionally and i have shortcuts for most of my frequently used emoji and [TS]

00:02:27   i felt absolutely crippled without them it was a dark dark time I'm so sorry to [TS]

00:02:33   hear anyway so we talked in inner episode 10 2012 ballots in interview [TS]

00:02:45   with Andy minutiae that was in objective CIO and Hendrick wrote in and said man [TS]

00:02:49   we should really talk about it so I guess we didn't really give it a fair [TS]

00:02:52   time and I think one of one of you guys I guess John had written a few things [TS]

00:02:56   that we should probably also bring up from that interview one thing and maybe [TS]

00:03:01   we did talk about I'm vaguely remember talking about the thing but I [TS]

00:03:04   remember this paragraph or did the highlighted bit talking about react but [TS]

00:03:09   any used to work for Apple so what it was like when he was at a time when he [TS]

00:03:15   was there is one of the complaint I have about my time at Apple's that because [TS]

00:03:18   the culture doesn't value learning nobody reads nobody knows what's going [TS]

00:03:22   on the broader community people didn't know about react at all [TS]

00:03:26   react in that region that doesn't make me feel good because then it's like a [TS]

00:03:32   bad idea that have about any big company the idea that Apple still with all these [TS]

00:03:37   super smart people making amazing products but they're dead they're sort [TS]

00:03:40   of insular that they're not like they're interested in what they're doing but not [TS]

00:03:44   so much is that what's going on elsewhere I don't know just one person's [TS]

00:03:47   complaint about you know obviously one person working the whole company they [TS]

00:03:51   work in a small part of the company and there's there's obviously evidence that [TS]

00:03:54   places where this is not the case I would hold swift as an example it's [TS]

00:03:58   clear to design a swift heavily influenced by other languages all of [TS]

00:04:02   which are you know being developed outside of Apple so it's obviously not [TS]

00:04:06   as you know in a weird looking insular as this complaint makes it sound but the [TS]

00:04:12   idea that could exist at all inside Apple's kind of disappointing to me [TS]

00:04:16   yeah and and you know this is this is a fairly credible and relevant statement [TS]

00:04:21   because it was on was on UI kit in I don't know exactly what capacity but I [TS]

00:04:26   think a pretty high one it's so so he was a right where the discussion of [TS]

00:04:31   react with the most relevant in UI kit that's exactly where this is important [TS]

00:04:35   he was there and he is as far as I'm aware pretty well respected so you know [TS]

00:04:41   i i wouldn't take this comment lightly in fact when I when I first read this I [TS]

00:04:46   was I was really surprised that it didn't get more attention because to me [TS]

00:04:51   it's it's kind of a bombshell to say that because the culture doesn't value [TS]

00:04:56   learning nobody reads nobody knows what's going on in the broader community [TS]

00:05:00   those are big statements to me especially from somebody like this you [TS]

00:05:03   like I don't think he goes around like throwing around phrases like that [TS]

00:05:06   lightly but he also made by somebody who left right and that person left probably [TS]

00:05:11   because they weren't getting enough of you know there is new interesting novel [TS]

00:05:14   things [TS]

00:05:15   opening outside of apple an apple in some respects has to be more [TS]

00:05:18   conservative because you know they're big they've got a big operation down [TS]

00:05:22   there they can't just be chasing after the show anything else are the [TS]

00:05:25   directions and as we've discussed and passions it seems like the technical [TS]

00:05:31   resources that Apple are fairly overextended like it's very hard work [TS]

00:05:35   their tight deadlines they're expected to do amazing things and put in long [TS]

00:05:39   hours that doesn't leave much time left to be sort of reading blogs about [TS]

00:05:43   interesting new technology to me and not influence and really liked it ends up [TS]

00:05:47   personal interest you read about it but like how relevant is it because it's [TS]

00:05:51   like what you just come in one day oh I have an idea guys let's not forget about [TS]

00:05:54   you I can do something that incorporate some of the ideas that i've seen [TS]

00:05:57   elsewhere by reading this programming block among other frameworks they don't [TS]

00:06:01   go great great let's play let's go do that right that's not something that [TS]

00:06:07   happens if you're just doing it on your own like the people who are super [TS]

00:06:11   interesting that I would imagine leave Apple because you're not going to get to [TS]

00:06:14   do that very few people are going to get to make that kind of radical decision [TS]

00:06:19   and have it take place against with the example of it actually taking place [TS]

00:06:23   because a very important person you know an idea influenced by lots of other [TS]

00:06:29   languages and managed to get done even that was a fairly large effort over a [TS]

00:06:34   long period of time and that's [TS]

00:06:36   a situation that's probably not going to say and he really loved reacting the [TS]

00:06:41   ideas inherited what could he do with those ideas that Apple [TS]

00:06:43   than you know pursue something else where you can use used one of the things [TS]

00:06:50   that's really tough about consulting is that if I do some sort of self-directed [TS]

00:06:57   learning outside of work because goodness knows I'm not gonna have the [TS]

00:07:02   time at work unless I'm quote unquote on the bench and not building a client and [TS]

00:07:07   not earning money and generally a waste of space where do they actually use that [TS]

00:07:10   phrase on the bench I do I think it's common phrase that's certainly something [TS]

00:07:15   I've always said which is funny cause I'm not much of an athlete it comes from [TS]

00:07:17   sports but whatever I don't maybe that's bothersome to most to me that's not as [TS]

00:07:22   bad as circle back and keep me in the loop and all the other god-awful [TS]

00:07:26   corporatism parking lot parking [TS]

00:07:28   exactly anyway so if I do some self-directed learning let's say I don't [TS]

00:07:34   know maybe I learn a little bit about note for whatever reason the likelihood [TS]

00:07:38   that I'm going to be able to bring that back to the office in a direct way is [TS]

00:07:43   virtually nonexistent now there's a lot of ways in which I can bring it back to [TS]

00:07:48   the office in an indirect way for example a more robust knowledge of [TS]

00:07:52   JavaScript is going to serve me well when I'm writing JavaScript for a web [TS]

00:07:57   browser but the likelihood that I'm ever going to be asked to do a nude project [TS]

00:08:01   for work is virtually nonexistent and that's a bummer and that sucks and it's [TS]

00:08:07   not that we don't learn at work but it's hard it's hard when what you're learning [TS]

00:08:12   is so far removed from what you're doing day today and I could make and I think [TS]

00:08:17   john was making a pretty solid argument that react well yes it's all you I but [TS]

00:08:22   the mechanisms are so far removed from what Apple doesn't UIKit how do you [TS]

00:08:26   really applied that if you're a you I can engineer kind of so discontent and [TS]

00:08:32   agitation like boy if you really turned on by these exciting developments that [TS]

00:08:37   are happening elsewhere in the new go back to work and realize [TS]

00:08:40   i cant like forget about it and direct application of knowledge like I could do [TS]

00:08:43   I get the right now but like I can't even incorporate these ideas into my [TS]

00:08:46   work to the degree that I think I should be able to get some ideas ideas are [TS]

00:08:51   small I guess I can apply them to what I'm actually doing in this new UI [TS]

00:08:54   framework but some ideas are large and it's like this idea of money make sense [TS]

00:08:57   that the scale of like how is the API design how was what is the model of UI [TS]

00:09:03   interaction like the model of reactive so much different than i love you i [TS]

00:09:06   kidded such a big idea that you know it's like structure not like details [TS]

00:09:12   that have you apply that if you're not going to say I'm gonna make some home [TS]

00:09:16   who you know I paradigm and that's not something you get to do ya right do we [TS]

00:09:23   want to do you a quick word from a friend and then we can talk about some [TS]

00:09:29   car related stuff our first bunch of this week is our friends once again at [TS]

00:09:34   cards against humanity now last last time they sponsored us they sent John it [TS]

00:09:40   hoster to review instead of doing a typical a dream I actually have no ad [TS]

00:09:44   copy for them they didn't give me any so this week they have sent John another [TS]

00:09:50   toaster John what did you think of your current duster alright no no contact us [TS]

00:09:56   when you want to know why they don't talk about toasters listen to the last [TS]

00:09:59   episode this toasters the Panasonic NBG 110 p [TS]

00:10:05   raining when I haven't listened to them in a long time so but my recollection is [TS]

00:10:14   that something that I talked about on the show was the idea that I seem [TS]

00:10:19   toasters that seemed to use different technology to to heat the food I was [TS]

00:10:25   like boy this is great I bet these are gonna hit up faster in heat more evenly [TS]

00:10:28   and pretty soon all toasters will be like this [TS]

00:10:31   when I went to go buy toasters I looked around I didn't see any high-tech those [TS]

00:10:35   who think maybe I was just imagining it was bad and the eighties and nineties I [TS]

00:10:39   just forgot about it but all the toasters back to the same old you know [TS]

00:10:43   designed that I'd seen in the past while this Panasonic coasters very close to [TS]

00:10:47   the sort of futuristic you know advanced toasters that I was thinking of that I [TS]

00:10:51   thought all toasters would be like it has a hearing on the bottom looks [TS]

00:10:55   certain normal but it's got a heating element to getting out into the top one [TS]

00:10:58   of which is near infrared and one of which is far infrared one of them [TS]

00:11:03   someone in the chatroom tell me which is which I'm assuming it's the near gives [TS]

00:11:07   off lots of visible light so it's almost like toaster has a big light inside it [TS]

00:11:11   but that's actually part of the heating element anyway [TS]

00:11:13   bottom line is this thing make toaster really fast it was like a minute and 30 [TS]

00:11:18   seconds faster than maybe expensive toaster nothing like double the speed [TS]

00:11:23   right and was fairly even is only one element on the bottom 20 mins tops that [TS]

00:11:26   would you put if you put four slices of toast there's not quite as good as [TS]

00:11:30   having two elements eating them but wow is it definitely fast is that faster [TS]

00:11:34   than a slot toaster at me because that's one of the advantages that the slot [TS]

00:11:37   toaster people usually site is it goes faster maybe I do not want to time it [TS]

00:11:43   against it is time to get my other sister but in other respects this [TS]

00:11:47   toasters weird like my Panasonic which is sort of a kitchen appliance brand [TS]

00:11:53   least not in this country that it's very vertical and operate the controls are [TS]

00:11:58   below the door and set it to the side so it's like saving horizontal counter [TS]

00:12:01   space the cord comes out of the front right corner of the toaster understand [TS]

00:12:06   maybe it's meant to be tucked into something but I don't think you're [TS]

00:12:09   supposed to put it you know [TS]

00:12:11   walls close to it it's it's very confusing like it's got a power button [TS]

00:12:17   on it [TS]

00:12:17   power but not like a power button to turn on the 22 toast food but a power [TS]

00:12:22   button as in now to toasters on now you can use the controls that are on the [TS]

00:12:25   toaster like it and so you need to remember to turn it off or maybe you [TS]

00:12:32   don't members are not our nose like a parasitic power loss if you don't turn [TS]

00:12:36   the power off it's very strange and the controls in the front this is big on [TS]

00:12:39   having presets [TS]

00:12:40   where it's like instead of it does have control for temperature controls for [TS]

00:12:44   time though but your digital and the temperature settings are like five or [TS]

00:12:47   six little different settings that you can set and you know how to do each time [TS]

00:12:50   but it also has buttons for various types of food and if I had to guess what [TS]

00:12:56   these you know what kind of buttons you would have a toaster six of them I would [TS]

00:12:59   not get the first one is toast fine I guess that one second one is waffle [TS]

00:13:03   frozen waffle goes the third bunny is a role and it also says reheat I guess [TS]

00:13:10   you're reading roles the fourth one is frozen pizza if the money is quick to [TS]

00:13:15   reheat chicken leg and the last one is hash browns shows versions of all peeps [TS]

00:13:23   chicken hash brown like these bugs confuse me I feel like if they were just [TS]

00:13:29   gone and I you just had to use the normal controls that would be better [TS]

00:13:31   anyway this is a very interesting post I think this was the sweet home pick for [TS]

00:13:35   the best toaster it toast bread really fast it's kind of small you can't fit [TS]

00:13:40   for full-size pieces of bread into it the trade does slide out when you open [TS]

00:13:44   the door [TS]

00:13:45   it has a lot of things to recommend it not bad but it's a weird it seems like [TS]

00:13:50   it might be it do you think it would be a fair pic if you had like you do [TS]

00:13:55   concerns about counter space usage it's very high though in like I think I'll [TS]

00:14:00   give up like it's just about like half an inch to narrative to put two slices [TS]

00:14:05   of bread side-by-side as frustrating I like you try to put it says a for a [TS]

00:14:08   slice toaster but you gotta have some pretty darn small bread you cannot get [TS]

00:14:11   four and it's frustrating when you get something that's a little bit because [TS]

00:14:16   you can fit them in their alleged and smashing together in that that just [TS]

00:14:20   doesn't feel comfortable so I wouldn't sacrifice I would I would give up that [TS]

00:14:25   easily just be able to hit four slices of toast in it but can't argue with [TS]

00:14:29   speed Superfest the bread slice count that as poster advertising the cantos it [TS]

00:14:34   once it's kind of like being number of people that tense advertise they can [TS]

00:14:38   sleep habits like you basically always have to like add to [TS]

00:14:45   John how do you think this toaster ranks among the other now to that you have [TS]

00:14:49   stuff it has a lot of things to recommend that over the previous poster [TS]

00:14:53   but the previous poster is just so much more normal like it's slower but I think [TS]

00:14:58   it did the previous one did a better job at four slices of bread and actually fit [TS]

00:15:01   four slices it seemed even more evenly the controls are definitely more [TS]

00:15:06   conventional I would probably pick this weird crazy fancy toaster over the [TS]

00:15:09   previous one just because it has some advantages the other one is like just [TS]

00:15:14   does everything ok I think I would I don't know it's tough choice I think it [TS]

00:15:19   would probably just edging the bread in there and just be happy as opposed to [TS]

00:15:25   the other one which is just kind of like you know the dials and all that business [TS]

00:15:29   this doesn't have the dow problem you said that you only have like six [TS]

00:15:32   settings set about once you find out which of the six settings works best for [TS]

00:15:34   your bread you don't have to change it you just hit the power button it toast I [TS]

00:15:38   think I'd go with the fancy one although I would never have complained about it [TS]

00:15:42   all the time you unlike my pants does to reach the only complaint I have about it [TS]

00:15:47   is a stupid spring in the door which apparently is only on my particular unit [TS]

00:15:50   alright well thanks a lot two cards against humanity for sponsoring our show [TS]

00:15:56   once again check them out cards against humanity [TS]

00:15:59   all right that was I love this I hope it never stops [TS]

00:16:06   sponsors do something but I hope so alright so so long time ago in a galaxy [TS]

00:16:11   far far away [TS]

00:16:12   that's a Star Wars reference John we started to a car themed podcast called [TS]

00:16:24   neutral the end at first everyone was like John her back in there is another [TS]

00:16:30   guy [TS]

00:16:31   and then after a few episodes they were like yeah still talking but all of a [TS]

00:16:38   sudden like a phoenix except not really at all [TS]

00:16:43   neutrals kind of coming back from the dead because here it is on our Apple [TS]

00:16:48   themes technology show their ease humongous talk these days that Apple [TS]

00:16:55   might make a car I don't know about you but I'm feeling pretty darn smug right [TS]

00:17:00   now how about you guys know I'm I'm scared that they're actually gonna do it [TS]

00:17:03   I really I really don't think they should not know anything about whether [TS]

00:17:09   any of you are credible I mean there's to me there so many reasons why this [TS]

00:17:13   might be a terrible hit here but let's look at the source of your let's see [TS]

00:17:16   where you know I have a bunch of links in there where who is saying that Apple [TS]

00:17:20   is doing anything having to do with while nine to five mac.com access on the [TS]

00:17:26   talk about who they hired hired head of mercedes-benz R&D I think he did like [TS]

00:17:30   the Edit interactive like this you know the screen type stuff inside [TS]

00:17:34   mercedes-benz and there are two things like whatever like you mean that we know [TS]

00:17:39   they have car play that's not like a secret and you hired a guy who does the [TS]

00:17:43   car place for mercedes-benz finance and I'm to buy back probably credible does [TS]

00:17:47   probably happen but it doesn't make us freaked out too much but then the Wall [TS]

00:17:51   Street Journal weighs in on the whole issue at all Street Journal post this [TS]

00:17:55   big thing that is pretty unequivocal like a wall street journal is not a [TS]

00:17:59   rumor side and their their record a track record for Apple is pretty good [TS]

00:18:04   they tend to get a lot of these sort of but we assume are controlled leaks and [TS]

00:18:07   stuff but this was like it was the title Apple gears up to challenge test Leno [TS]

00:18:12   electric cars and it's a big long article and is talking all about that [TS]

00:18:16   you know that that they're secretly working hundreds of employees is [TS]

00:18:19   secretly working creating an Apple branded electric car [TS]

00:18:23   and lots of important people are on the project and it started two years ago and [TS]

00:18:29   they've got to engineers from Ford working on it and the person who's [TS]

00:18:33   making it was given permission to create thousand-person team and to push [TS]

00:18:36   employees are different parts of the company all the same things that [TS]

00:18:38   applicant of you know like when the iPhone was made with forestall going [TS]

00:18:43   around it and snagging all the good engineers you know the price of the [TS]

00:18:45   company's and you wanna come work on our project or whatever [TS]

00:18:49   an apple spokesman declined to comment so you know we're not saying this is a [TS]

00:18:54   hundred percent slam dunk but suddenly you start to notice like I had not been [TS]

00:18:58   taking any of this Apple make cars that series The at all because there are just [TS]

00:19:02   so many reasons like Margaret said for Apple to hire all these car related [TS]

00:19:05   people like they have car playback that explains almost any car hire I don't [TS]

00:19:10   know about that I mean car place is really a very small move in the grand [TS]

00:19:15   scheme of things like it's it's not a big initiatives far as we can tell so [TS]

00:19:19   far from what we see in the outside and I I should clarify so I I did my app is [TS]

00:19:24   compatible but nothing none of what I'm saying is informed by any inside [TS]

00:19:29   knowledge of that I don't have any inside knowledge of that so sharply is [TS]

00:19:33   it is a very small project that as far as I can tell is having a very slow [TS]

00:19:38   start it's the use by very few cars its use by very few people it's usually very [TS]

00:19:44   few apps and among the cars and people and apps that are used with car play it [TS]

00:19:51   usually gets mixed reviews and I don't know and I love it the fault of the head [TS]

00:19:55   units or the controls or the software I have no idea but it it seems like a [TS]

00:19:59   pretty pretty tiny hobby project so I don't think they would be hiring [TS]

00:20:04   allegedly hundreds of people making the giant secret research lab just to make [TS]

00:20:09   like the next version of car play that day I don't think that's possible that's [TS]

00:20:13   the information we can't confirm we can confirm things more or less like who was [TS]

00:20:16   hired to work it out on those of the the confirmed facts of this case that you [TS]

00:20:21   know they actually check on and like you know they hired the guy from our and our [TS]

00:20:28   savings Rd they'd maybe they hired some guy from four to configure thats alright [TS]

00:20:32   but you can't confirm hundreds of people being moved from division a division be [TS]

00:20:36   you know me like that's that's all just kind of rumors and stuff so i'm saying [TS]

00:20:39   is I called all of the news about a particular executive or a particular [TS]

00:20:43   higher important if we heard if we hear about hiring somebody that probably an [TS]

00:20:47   important person in those are in the ones and twos and carpet told explains [TS]

00:20:50   any of those higher right when they said is if they really are hundreds or [TS]

00:20:56   thousands of people often some off-site location working on a big project [TS]

00:21:00   that doesn't seem like our place in its current form but it could be many other [TS]

00:21:03   things like helping to make you know design the entire interior and interface [TS]

00:21:09   of a card that they don't happen to make that would be a significant undertaking [TS]

00:21:12   they require lots of people [TS]

00:21:15   partner specific car maker by the way mixed in with all this are the stories [TS]

00:21:19   from earlier months ago like Tesla hiring away all the Apple employees and [TS]

00:21:25   going in both directions [TS]

00:21:28   test was hired by Apple employees which I kinda makes sense to me when I read [TS]

00:21:33   those stories it's like well yeah you wouldn't want to go work for testing and [TS]

00:21:36   it's kind of a shame because what I merely popped into my mind is you know [TS]

00:21:40   you on mosque walking through a garden with us I'm Apple engineer in saying to [TS]

00:21:43   your cell sheriff owns interests your life with me and change the world [TS]

00:21:47   Casey that's a reference by the way like who is this year is on the other foot [TS]

00:21:52   now it's like well what's more exciting like revolutionising the world cars with [TS]

00:21:58   electric cars or during with Apple's doing and maybe it's closer maybe the [TS]

00:22:02   toss up a certain Apple vs Pepsi got I can imagine not being very difficult for [TS]

00:22:09   test lead to higher way Apple employees who work are nuts because you don't get [TS]

00:22:12   to work on cars it outright or do you and then that Apple tried to buy Tesla [TS]

00:22:19   you know about the people they again failed the unsubstantiated some people [TS]

00:22:23   predicting that Apple will buy data some people particularly did draw them but [TS]

00:22:27   every time you read something like that it's like yeah yeah it's easy to write [TS]

00:22:30   that story but there are so many things that we have had retroactivity confirmed [TS]

00:22:34   about Apple trying to buy companies that do you know refuse them or [TS]

00:22:38   considered buying companies and didn't like trying to drive by by Dropbox and [TS]

00:22:44   are really buying Dropbox and they're down inside Palm Way back in the day [TS]

00:22:48   because people can remember that like these are not the best thing about all [TS]

00:22:52   these stories they're not entirely plausible these rumors they don't I [TS]

00:23:00   don't think any of us hundred percent believe any of these because the [TS]

00:23:02   evidence is not there is a part of that all of us get to the point where we're [TS]

00:23:05   willing to entertain the thought right one of the reasons why I never thought [TS]

00:23:09   Apple would make a TV set which have talked about a few times here before is [TS]

00:23:14   that the TV set business is just kind of a messy business it like it it's a it's [TS]

00:23:20   a very very big like you know commodity business supply chain business but not [TS]

00:23:25   know where that that leads to a lot of profit usually unlike the phone business [TS]

00:23:29   in the end their computer business and it's also not an item that is frequently [TS]

00:23:34   updated and upgraded typically people buy TVs like every decade or whatever [TS]

00:23:39   it's it's not like every couple years kinda like a phone or computer and [TS]

00:23:43   there's not a lot of ways and Apple TV as a friend from whatever we know today [TS]

00:23:50   TV world to be there's not really a lot of ways and Apple TV could really [TS]

00:23:54   meaningfully differentiate itself from what the current little AppleTV puck box [TS]

00:23:59   400 bucks does or or what [TS]

00:24:02   another one could do so it seems like getting into the TV set business is not [TS]

00:24:08   only unnecessary as they can get all the value they needed just making the box [TS]

00:24:12   but also probably not wise is it just it's kind of just kind of a messy [TS]

00:24:17   business well talk about a messy business about the car business and in [TS]

00:24:22   the car business is not only extraordinarily expensive to get started [TS]

00:24:27   and and to run and and of course no Apple has the cash if they wanted to [TS]

00:24:30   build a car factory in design cars they could whether they should and whether [TS]

00:24:37   they would is a very different story but certainly they have the money they could [TS]

00:24:42   afford to set this up even though it is extremely expensive the big problem I [TS]

00:24:46   see with it though is that you like like the television business [TS]

00:24:50   the car business is just really kinda messy Apple doesn't really get into a [TS]

00:24:55   lot of those like Messi businesses that often like cell phones are pretty [TS]

00:24:58   missing while they were never a cell phone carrier for instance I know they [TS]

00:25:03   tried to be that that was the first thing to say [TS]

00:25:05   carriers can we do have fun without involving carriers and they pursued that [TS]

00:25:09   right and they just determined no you can't be we need to carry right it's the [TS]

00:25:17   type of I know it's not a business that they like to be in but there are [TS]

00:25:23   businesses that have been messy Intel Apple entered them and sort of clarified [TS]

00:25:27   when I look at this whole situation here I think to myself who is the apple of [TS]

00:25:34   the car business if you want to I would argue BMW but I am hugely bias and I [TS]

00:25:43   would say there isn't one i mean there there is a mean as just as car analogies [TS]

00:25:47   are often used frequently misused in tech discussions and debates in this [TS]

00:25:54   this massive Cornell you there is no equivalent there is no fair point and I [TS]

00:25:58   think there's a hundred percent there's an Apple the car business thats Tesla [TS]

00:26:01   the reason it's Tesla is not so much for anything like Oh cuz they have big [TS]

00:26:05   tablet on that for their the Apple the carbons know that the Apple the car [TS]

00:26:08   business because time for jan had to come out there re-imagined but the car [TS]

00:26:12   could be and they took out all the crap in the car [TS]

00:26:15   getting rid of hydraulic brakes is like there's nothing to go see a test [TS]

00:26:19   tomorrow s there's no car there there is no car inside that car like you look [TS]

00:26:23   around and it is a big thing in the back seat to go and what the hell is the car [TS]

00:26:30   and into the interior is no like and the massive simplification of the car like [TS]

00:26:36   it lol how many parts the car has a lot of these things like you know ten [TS]

00:26:39   thousand coupons retired to make our whatever like the number of parts in in [TS]

00:26:44   a test look compared to the number of parts and internal combustion engine [TS]

00:26:47   alone let alone the entire car surrounding it is just night and day and [TS]

00:26:50   so that's the type of simplification not the testament of electric car obviously [TS]

00:26:54   you know there's another reason I think they like Apple but that type of [TS]

00:26:58   simplification of like we're not just going to make a car we're going to make [TS]

00:27:04   something that is simpler and better and you know has fewer parts and less things [TS]

00:27:09   that can go wrong and different characteristics and think people are [TS]

00:27:12   gonna tell us can't because of you know range problems or you know that it's not [TS]

00:27:17   just make nice noises like internal combustion engine also things but we're [TS]

00:27:21   going to do it anyway and it's like Apple's new Apple didn't invent the mp3 [TS]

00:27:25   player the mobile phone or anything else to do not about the electric car [TS]

00:27:28   many people have been made before them and most of them have not been that [TS]

00:27:32   great bike from the GME V-one way back in the day with acid batteries all up [TS]

00:27:37   through all the different models that are hybrids and the things that have [TS]

00:27:40   gone in between in Tesla is you know take the Apple approaches are leading [TS]

00:27:44   from the top [TS]

00:27:45   doing whatever it takes to make a good electric car which are not to cost like [TS]

00:27:50   a hundred grand right but you know its first electric car that people actually [TS]

00:27:54   say is a good car and that's totally an apple type of thing to do and the whole [TS]

00:27:58   the way that it's made it is such a difference you know dealing with all the [TS]

00:28:02   internal combustion everything right so that makes me think that if not [TS]

00:28:07   impossible for a company to do an apple like think the cars Tesla shows how [TS]

00:28:12   difficult that is because you have to deal with you know dealer organizations [TS]

00:28:15   making so you can sell your car in your states and all the crazy government [TS]

00:28:18   regulations and not guarantee that even though the government subsidies that [TS]

00:28:21   test was going to come out on top and blah blah blah blah but I think test of [TS]

00:28:27   the apple of cars and that's kind of bad for Apple making a car because it was [TS]

00:28:31   already in half of cars with the hell that we're gonna do if they can't buy [TS]

00:28:33   test to see here's the thing I know you're wrong that Tesla is the apple of [TS]

00:28:39   cars and in the reason you're wrong is because a software update actually made [TS]

00:28:43   the Tesla faster who police said that all the time [TS]

00:28:47   with every release in the same hardware as the days I did that by starting off [TS]

00:28:54   beings [TS]

00:28:55   crappy leadership the couple seconds here just being silly oh I forgot the [TS]

00:29:02   other rumor involved with the car thing that we talked about it a preview shows [TS]

00:29:05   like you know minivan spotted with weird stuff on the roof [TS]

00:29:09   reportedly Apple self-driving cars and we talked about that said that is very [TS]

00:29:12   easily explained by Apple doing something like Street View which we [TS]

00:29:14   think they need is Apple interested in self-driving cars that's a that's [TS]

00:29:19   totally and Apple style simplification like you even need to drive the car but [TS]

00:29:23   i think is not as interested in Google as Google is in that kind of basic [TS]

00:29:27   research at this point [TS]

00:29:29   yeah and and for whatever it's worth the Wall Street Journal article said [TS]

00:29:32   specifically that a person familiar with the project said that self driving cars [TS]

00:29:36   are not part of Apple's current plan and that's also I mean that's for the best [TS]

00:29:39   mean how how well do you think Apple does with really complicated academic a [TS]

00:29:45   I kind of problems that's that's not really their strong points and honestly [TS]

00:29:49   I think at this point the Apple's ability to make a card no matter how [TS]

00:29:55   many people they hire 900 engineers they put on it [TS]

00:29:58   look how long it took tests led to make its first car with the help of [TS]

00:30:01   essentially buying lotus's and strapping its batteries and engines like Apple has [TS]

00:30:06   a leg up on them that they have a billion dollars and that that helps you [TS]

00:30:10   along significantly but it takes a long time to build expertise and even if you [TS]

00:30:15   can buy expertise takes a long time to buy expertise and get it all working [TS]

00:30:19   together like again I think they could do it but it would be a long road and if [TS]

00:30:24   Apple decided it wants to make a car because it believes cars can be [TS]

00:30:27   simplified and can be made better or whatever the obvious movies 2 by Tesla [TS]

00:30:31   because they've already done so much of that work and their philosophy of [TS]

00:30:37   simplification and reimagining the car as something both better and less [TS]

00:30:43   complex than it was before [TS]

00:30:46   totally in line with the type of stuff that Apple does just that Apple [TS]

00:30:49   so has there been a time in the past when Apple has taken a product that was [TS]

00:30:56   basically fully formed in bought the company and made it their own I think [TS]

00:31:01   what was it sound jam became iTunes is that right [TS]

00:31:03   had worked out well that's sort of kind of what I'm talking about but if they [TS]

00:31:07   bought Tesla don't you imagine they would keep the test lybrand like they [TS]

00:31:10   would make it the Apple car like that in beats is probably the obvious answer my [TS]

00:31:15   question right i mean they didn't even want to change the branded a headphone [TS]

00:31:18   maker I would imagine they would keep the test the branch the so many things [TS]

00:31:23   about this just made me really skeptical that that these reports are getting the [TS]

00:31:28   right big picture like you know you can you can pick up bits and pieces of [TS]

00:31:32   information here in there and you can say oh they hired this person who has a [TS]

00:31:36   car background and it seemed that they're making a big lab and you know [TS]

00:31:40   all the study you can put together bits and pieces but I really don't know if if [TS]

00:31:45   the conclusion is well of course the carcass there are so many reasons why [TS]

00:31:49   that is not an apple like business to enter and you know not to say Apple [TS]

00:31:54   can't change and enter new businesses that's how progress is made but this [TS]

00:31:59   just doesn't seem like like like the right business to enter a mean you know [TS]

00:32:04   you mess this up people died like it it's very serious it's very cumbersome [TS]

00:32:10   of a business to enter to to be in at all it is extremely hyper competitive [TS]

00:32:17   hyper-competitive I would call it there are large barriers to entry which is [TS]

00:32:22   kind of the opposite of hyper competitive like the fact that GM's [TS]

00:32:26   still how competitive can it really be where'd you go to business the [TS]

00:32:31   government put you back into business really that great new car student to [TS]

00:32:35   kill people sometimes but I like it all work out in the end like [TS]

00:32:38   it's their high barriers to entry but like the argument I seen a lot of places [TS]

00:32:43   like the view from the gym executive that the car business like your kind of [TS]

00:32:49   the TV business the car business is not like a higher profit businesses low [TS]

00:32:52   margin it's difficult to people saying they whether it's about TVs about cars [TS]

00:32:56   like them why and how you even in this business you just described your own [TS]

00:32:59   business is pretty darn crappy right but you could describe the PC market the [TS]

00:33:03   same way low margin it's a race to the bottom it's crappy somehow manages to [TS]

00:33:07   make money there and the phone market in similar way that Apple's big thing kind [TS]

00:33:11   of like Tesla this point is we find the most profitable part of the market but [TS]

00:33:15   you just need the top and we make a lot of money in that part and maybe we [TS]

00:33:18   expand down as we're able to but I don't think it's impossible for Apple to make [TS]

00:33:25   margins on its theoretical car that would make him cry because Apple is [TS]

00:33:30   better way simply the new internal combustion engine car already has the [TS]

00:33:36   some of the expertise and contacts to do the battery stuff and you know they [TS]

00:33:40   already buy a lot of lithium batteries yeah like there is definite synergies [TS]

00:33:45   there but like I I don't entirely by the story in a bit like almost every [TS]

00:33:48   organizing against it and and even the TV for knows where to get out CDs from [TS]

00:33:53   that will construct something inside it like is it a low margin business AppleTV [TS]

00:33:56   wouldn't be low margin you know me at like at Apple TV will not be like oh we [TS]

00:34:00   make $2 every TV if Apple makes a car it will not be a low margin car I don't [TS]

00:34:04   even know what the morning stars government subsidies being factored in [TS]

00:34:08   but if Apple was making the Model S they can make it for less money [TS]

00:34:12   just because you know you gotta have money to make money the deals you got [TS]

00:34:15   out the contracts you know that Apple could make it for less money than making [TS]

00:34:21   it so immediately the car has a higher margins [TS]

00:34:24   so all the arguments against don't make our own is compelling to me the idea [TS]

00:34:28   like that Apple is like a wider than Apple make boats while they make [TS]

00:34:34   airplanes why don't they sell real estate like their you know their company [TS]

00:34:39   uses technology to make people's lives better but a certain point when you [TS]

00:34:42   going to like cars or constructing buildings or opening medical clinics [TS]

00:34:49   around the country these are all things that Apple could do but it starts to [TS]

00:34:52   drift off the path of what I picture as a business that Apple want to get into [TS]

00:34:59   just because it involves technology everything involved technology this [TS]

00:35:02   point so I'm I have from this one Wall Street Journal story maybe take it [TS]

00:35:05   seriously but just convince me that I think you know what a few people have [TS]

00:35:11   said they worried about Apple's focus you know if this is true and if they do [TS]

00:35:16   not making a car like you know what the focus and I think when we look at this [TS]

00:35:20   is you've heard I pretty sure steve is to say as I know Tim always says this [TS]

00:35:26   which is that Apple tends to only or ideally the idea that maybe maybe not [TS]

00:35:32   the actual Apple but the ideal Apple is a company that only enters markets where [TS]

00:35:37   they think they can make a really meaningful difference that doesn't help [TS]

00:35:40   you I does it cause don't you think they would say we can totally make a [TS]

00:35:43   meaningful difference by changing the way everybody drives like this is [TS]

00:35:46   totally a meaningful difference but from the product side lake we already have [TS]

00:35:51   electric cars I know but they never really been done right and testing being [TS]

00:35:56   choked to death by you know that the rest of the automotive industry like I [TS]

00:36:00   kinda think of Tessalit way it's like a little fledging little bird then we all [TS]

00:36:04   wanted to fly but getting beaten down [TS]

00:36:07   and it's amazing that has done about the candle you know with government help and [TS]

00:36:11   everything but like wouldn't we all feel terrible if test leaders didn't make it [TS]

00:36:15   would be unfortunate like it was like we know that they've made a good car like [TS]

00:36:19   the Model S is a good car care is a hundred grand a better be a good car but [TS]

00:36:23   it is a good cars like the first good electric car like the roster didn't even [TS]

00:36:26   apply that it has limitations on so far that's like wow so much fun did you know [TS]

00:36:30   it's it's nice to drive is attractive it's got all the advantages even [TS]

00:36:35   spectrometric parts really fun like they did it right and now you just keep you [TS]

00:36:41   know we're gonna get cheaper one they gonna get $30,000 SUV like you want them [TS]

00:36:45   to just spool up and eventually become a real car company failed that they can I [TS]

00:36:49   go we didn't quite make it we're filing for bankruptcy or whatever and it won't [TS]

00:36:52   be disappointed I think that shows that we want someone to come in and make a [TS]

00:36:57   significant difference in the industry whether that has to involve Apple at all [TS]

00:37:01   I don't know why I mean if if we don't want to keep the groaning about me but I [TS]

00:37:07   don't think they're going to be pulling people off you I get to work on the car [TS]

00:37:11   you know maybe kind of the interface but of course they will but not to the [TS]

00:37:15   degree that like people got pulled over always tend to work like there are no [TS]

00:37:18   Automotive Engineers that Apple pulled off their current project to work on the [TS]

00:37:21   car automotive engineers are you know that the different skill set in [TS]

00:37:25   mechanical engineering [TS]

00:37:26   you know maybe the manufacturing people will be some crossover but it wouldn't [TS]

00:37:30   be as big of a focus diversion as many other things that Apple does do so I am [TS]

00:37:35   NOT groaning quite as much about losing focus on you know it's nice and hire new [TS]

00:37:41   people are like I said that was by Tesla they come with a bunch of people are [TS]

00:37:44   already know how to make cars but I was really getting at with the with the make [TS]

00:37:49   a meaningful difference thing from the buyer's perspective like if you are [TS]

00:37:54   buying an Apple car or let's say right now let's see your bio test look as bad [TS]

00:37:58   that's the closest thing we have to what we think this might be the kind of thing [TS]

00:38:02   we think this would be probably look at what the market today oh probably [TS]

00:38:06   closest to it than any other vehicle may be a leaf but probably probably closer [TS]

00:38:11   Tesla so if you think about that as a driver [TS]

00:38:16   I mean none of us have electric cars so we don't really maybe this is not the [TS]

00:38:21   right people to be speculating on this part but is there that much of a [TS]

00:38:26   difference when you're driving the car when your own the car whether it's let [TS]

00:38:31   your gas so much so that an apple car could be like radically different to own [TS]

00:38:36   and operate and drive than any other car like i don't i don't think the [TS]

00:38:40   differences are that big I think they are like other than the battery which is [TS]

00:38:45   still a concern but Tesla has a built-in way to replacing everything that the [TS]

00:38:49   maintenance the maintenance concerns and costs and the number of things that can [TS]

00:38:53   go wrong [TS]

00:38:54   like this just less stuff in the damn car's electric motors and like when the [TS]

00:38:57   brakes are electric to ya gotta replace brake pads for like there's no fluids [TS]

00:39:01   there is no like you know gonna hydraulic system is just there's no oil [TS]

00:39:06   no gaskets is just so much stuff that you have to deal with car maintenance [TS]

00:39:10   goes away and so you know I just think that is that's a different experience of [TS]

00:39:16   driving a car but but what can apple bring to that that test and Nissan and [TS]

00:39:21   everybody else can't I mean that's why there was just a test like but that's [TS]

00:39:27   the problem but you know so what can I bring to the company's cantwell what [TS]

00:39:31   they can bring to it is assured [TS]

00:39:33   future for testing if they buy it right because if you are worried about Tesla [TS]

00:39:39   if they're not going to make it if they can't make you know $100,000 cars are [TS]

00:39:42   fun but they can't feel the $30,000 mother never going to be a player in the [TS]

00:39:45   industry is you just have to come down in price a little bit you know any [TS]

00:39:49   significant number of cars at Tesla can't get that done and its own Apple [TS]

00:39:54   can make sure that that's that's a pretty weak argument that and obviously [TS]

00:39:59   they would make they would make the UI in the interface inside much better than [TS]

00:40:02   it is now hopefully I mean there are areas for simplification in the interior [TS]

00:40:06   car that you would hope I mean maybe not today's appt only lost faith in their [TS]

00:40:10   ability to make these interfaces but [TS]

00:40:12   the apple of old you would imagine could simplify the interior of the car in the [TS]

00:40:16   same whether the iPad somebody music player and the iPhone simplified phone [TS]

00:40:20   interface [TS]

00:40:21   again maybe it s already did that with my putting a big I bet on the dashboard [TS]

00:40:24   but I don't like I don't think I'll be able to bring to bring as much to this [TS]

00:40:29   as they brought to obviously as the phones or anything like that but he's [TS]

00:40:34   out the questionnaire asking themselves like you know test looks like they've [TS]

00:40:38   done a lot of the work so we shouldn't even bother maybe I don't know I keep [TS]

00:40:42   coming back to what's in it for Apple and I think we've been dancing around [TS]

00:40:46   that question you know this entire discussion and what is it that that [TS]

00:40:50   doing a car would would serve for Apple now maybe would keep your engineers [TS]

00:40:57   entertained we've talked on and off about how the worst reason why not say [TS]

00:41:02   it's good reason but engineers designers entertained maybe whatever the case may [TS]

00:41:07   be I mean we've talked about talent retention here and there over the years [TS]

00:41:09   and you know that would theoretically retain talent but of course I'm also [TS]

00:41:13   assuming that every nerd's also car not mad could not be further from the truth [TS]

00:41:18   the only other thing I can think of is what if there's some sort of technology [TS]

00:41:22   that that Apple has invented or figured out how to leverage in such a way that [TS]

00:41:27   it lends itself to a vehicle rather than a piece of electronics what I'm thinking [TS]

00:41:33   of is the click wheel made the iPod in many ways made the iPod the iPod still [TS]

00:41:39   shelling came up with that [TS]

00:41:40   click steering exactly and different that I cried so give give me an example [TS]

00:41:46   technology hypothetical that you can imagine this being the case so so to [TS]

00:41:49   finish my thought just very quickly in a multi-touch yet wasn't near but it was [TS]

00:41:52   leveraged differently and and there are other examples I don't think I can think [TS]

00:41:56   of off the top of my head but what if they had some crazy new battery [TS]

00:42:00   technology and the reason it's not an iOS devices right now or or MacBooks [TS]

00:42:05   right now is because it's just too freakin big deal maybe these batteries [TS]

00:42:09   are hugely hugely hugely efficient they can charge in 12 seconds but but [TS]

00:42:15   unfortunately they're just freakin massive and so the only thing that this [TS]

00:42:20   is really good for is the electric vehicle [TS]

00:42:23   granted this all hugely hypothetical but in that case maybe they would have [TS]

00:42:29   something to contribute and that seems to me to be the kind of thing that that [TS]

00:42:34   would make apple say you know maybe we should give the shot some sort of either [TS]

00:42:39   different and interesting application of an existing technology or even better [TS]

00:42:43   some sort of brand new technology that for whatever reason they just cant [TS]

00:42:48   shoehorned into a iPad or an iPhone or MacBook Air MacBook Pro or whatever it [TS]

00:42:54   again mister fusion argue that are a flux capacitor yeah yeah yeah but that's [TS]

00:42:59   that's perhaps the least a polite thing that could possibly think of like Google [TS]

00:43:05   does try to do basic research and even they don't do this type of thing there [TS]

00:43:08   is no secret battery breakthrough technology that Apple has a bigger [TS]

00:43:12   batteries like anyone's gonna come up with that it's going to be a university [TS]

00:43:16   theoretical physicist like its first what's going to happen is the basic [TS]

00:43:21   research is gonna say that something is potentially possible and then a bunch of [TS]

00:43:25   people are going to try to do it in the first person to pull it off is probably [TS]

00:43:28   not going to be like apple just doesn't do that kind of basic research that's [TS]

00:43:31   just not i mean and I don't think that's going to change out the company is not [TS]

00:43:34   the way they work like this a Google Adsense them in basic are indeed I like [TS]

00:43:39   some some big multiple and Google is not compared to like you know the real basic [TS]

00:43:44   research going on in the field of science and engineering [TS]

00:43:48   Google self-driving cars are you know not a drop in the bucket compared to [TS]

00:43:53   people who are trying to spending like just years and years working on whatever [TS]

00:43:55   carbon nanotubes battery technology that's going to come and when it's [TS]

00:44:01   always grab the stuff that's just it at the edge of what's possible and they [TS]

00:44:05   apply their engineering and manufacturing expertise to bring it to [TS]

00:44:07   existence but I don't think [TS]

00:44:09   that Apple has anything like that for batteries at like four something else [TS]

00:44:12   maybe they have a really good idea about the interface of a car but there are a [TS]

00:44:17   lot of limitations on the interface of a car because people are kind of used to [TS]

00:44:20   it isn't as government regulations saying how it has to be hosted one thing [TS]

00:44:24   I want Apple making the interface to my car because there is a mean for many of [TS]

00:44:30   the same reasons you know we discussed earlier on a neutral which nobody [TS]

00:44:33   listened to we discussed our feelings on touchscreens vs knobs and buttons versus [TS]

00:44:38   a combination of the two and I think we all came down is we actually don't like [TS]

00:44:44   the Tesla approach of everything on the touchscreen like I I like knobs and [TS]

00:44:50   buttons for all the controls that are necessary in my car for basic operations [TS]

00:44:54   things like the ventilation controls and you know I like anything that's on the [TS]

00:44:58   center console that's not like the navigation screen I want knobs and [TS]

00:45:02   buttons for anything evolution screen that i dont wanna touch screen because [TS]

00:45:05   of the ones I've seen and used have been terrible I want like like the wheel at [TS]

00:45:10   the eye Dr we all have a great day out he has a somewhat similar one Toyota [TS]

00:45:15   Lexus have a really weird terrible pointing stick system that's just awful [TS]

00:45:19   and i've seen many others [TS]

00:45:21   hideous systems rather brands but for the most part I want knobs and buttons [TS]

00:45:26   because what you need in a car for both safety especially number one safety and [TS]

00:45:33   also for just reduced annoyance you need a button to work every time to respond [TS]

00:45:40   within the same time every time you don't because what you don't need to be [TS]

00:45:44   doing in a car when you shouldn't be doing in a car is having to check up on [TS]

00:45:48   the state of what you think you just did to make sure it took or two to reissue [TS]

00:45:54   of command of a card misinterpreted and if you look at Apple's current software [TS]

00:45:59   designs and systems and and styles and just the standards by which they hold [TS]

00:46:03   themselves and in reality what we get from them in practice it's not that [TS]

00:46:07   solid you know there are parts of it that are like the Colonels pretty good [TS]

00:46:10   these days but you know the UI's you know all the other stuff sitting on the [TS]

00:46:15   hob the services and everything that these these are not like this requires a [TS]

00:46:21   very different degree of reliability than what consumer software for [TS]

00:46:26   computers and tablets and phones really requires cars like the things in cars [TS]

00:46:30   need to work every time and if they miss just a little bit if it's just a little [TS]

00:46:36   bit bulkier little bit slow or a little bit inconsistent it's really annoying [TS]

00:46:40   potentially very unsafe and so I don't think I would want Apple making that [TS]

00:46:44   kind of software my car at least as we know them today and maybe in the future [TS]

00:46:48   it'll be very worried if they did it today [TS]

00:46:51   watches reassuring in this regard though because you're talking about is like [TS]

00:46:55   what they did with the phone as they made it all screen because they realized [TS]

00:46:58   that the buns were limiting and really the number of interesting things you can [TS]

00:47:02   do with the phone was just all screen just expanded greatly because the [TS]

00:47:05   general purpose computing device whereas on the watch they made a slightly [TS]

00:47:08   different decision yet all screen because they expect similar type of [TS]

00:47:11   things but the little digital grounding in the button on the side [TS]

00:47:15   acknowledge that in this application it's not just about all I can make the [TS]

00:47:19   general purpose computing devices so darn small so other aspects like quick [TS]

00:47:24   access and reliable reliable use of you know like one might just make your [TS]

00:47:28   pension scheme with a different context here they're not afraid afraid to make [TS]

00:47:30   it you know that the highlight feature of their watches interface to be a [TS]

00:47:34   novice angeli I would imagine if Apple had to take on a car like what you're [TS]

00:47:39   what you're envisioning is like boys that permitted car would look like to [TS]

00:47:42   join iPad into the death penalty would did I would hope that if Apple did a car [TS]

00:47:47   they would recognize that this context is also different than the mobile phone [TS]

00:47:50   context and that what's appropriate animal is fun making use the giant [TS]

00:47:54   screen would also not be appropriate here so it would have nothing to have a [TS]

00:47:59   digital crown but they would have knobs and buttons and stuff on it and they [TS]

00:48:03   would not be entirely unexpected big screen to be featured heavily but I [TS]

00:48:06   would not be surprised if an Apple design car interior had more knobs and [TS]

00:48:10   buttons right so let's put this in the parking lot [TS]

00:48:17   tried so hard to get out the state faced let's put this aside for a second and [TS]

00:48:21   let's talk about something else that's also a second budget this week is [TS]

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00:48:55   to keep it flat lake with prince or anything like that it's great it is just [TS]

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00:50:12   you know I can hang on [TS]

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00:50:19   we've ordered probably ten of them so far maybe none have a broken shipping a [TS]

00:50:25   package variable you don't worry about that they they pack it nicely nicely not [TS]

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00:50:39   off your first order once again [TS]

00:50:41   photos printed directly unless I cannot recommend these guys [TS]

00:50:44   enough thank you very much to fracture for sponsoring our show once again let's [TS]

00:50:48   assume for the sake of conversation the car play doesn't exist it basically [TS]

00:50:52   doesn't heyo [TS]

00:50:55   the two of us it's hasn't gone very far maybe it will in the future but right [TS]

00:51:00   now it really has not gone very far [TS]

00:51:02   yeah and that's a fair point so if we take it that car play either doesn't [TS]

00:51:06   exist or barely exists wouldn't it make the most sense that all of these hires [TS]

00:51:12   in all of this activity is probably about making what we call our plate [TS]

00:51:18   today I mean that just seems the most obvious to me the thought of actually [TS]

00:51:20   constructing a an automobile seems kind of crazy to me [TS]

00:51:26   partnering like if I was interested in cars partnering with a car manufactured [TS]

00:51:31   to do what we talked about back in neutrals like these carmakers all want [TS]

00:51:35   to do it themselves and I feel like we have our internal design group that does [TS]

00:51:39   all are you know for interiors with a new MyFord Touch whatever you know like [TS]

00:51:42   they want to do it themselves as a point of pride but they're terrible at it [TS]

00:51:46   because they don't have much experience cars you cannot be about software and [TS]

00:51:49   then seemingly overnight night car because came back over first the engines [TS]

00:51:53   were about software but I was like that's not visible to the user interface [TS]

00:51:56   20 computers in them baby seemed to make that transition ok when it came to make [TS]

00:52:02   you know human-computer interfaces inside the cars they have not done well [TS]

00:52:07   and they haven't been able to attract that actually you so where is looking [TS]

00:52:09   like you could just bring someone from the outside the Apple do your interior [TS]

00:52:13   but no car maker once lets you know computer company come in design that [TS]

00:52:17   they want you know it's like BMW or whatever it's a good point of pride we [TS]

00:52:21   make the interiors and they just keep trying to refine them and they get [TS]

00:52:23   better at them but I imagine if your Apple and all the people at Apple the [TS]

00:52:29   Big Ten's executives who make the decisions [TS]

00:52:32   drive super expensive cars and kind of like how all the executives had super [TS]

00:52:35   expensive cell phones the stall thought they were all crap I bet a lot of those [TS]

00:52:39   executives are similar tastes drive to work and they're under $200,000 cars and [TS]

00:52:43   say boy the interior interfaces cars terrible and Mike this is the best car [TS]

00:52:47   you can buy like [TS]

00:52:48   now because it's a cheap car like I'm rich I have a lot of money I still have [TS]

00:52:53   to use a crappy cell phone and deal with my crappy TV set and drive a car that I [TS]

00:52:59   love everything about it except for the user interface in the interior right and [TS]

00:53:02   so the channeling that frustration would be like you know can't we can we work [TS]

00:53:09   with BMW Mercedes Porsche Honda how anybody would anybody let us like work [TS]

00:53:13   with them at the level we want to work with them and say we own the interior [TS]

00:53:17   user interface your car you do the engine you do the car you do the [TS]

00:53:20   structure you do the suspension you do everything else but we own how you doin [TS]

00:53:23   the windshield wipers on how you just the radio you call someone a cell phone [TS]

00:53:26   interview car like let us do all that for you and so far no car if Apple has [TS]

00:53:32   made those overtures no car manufacturers take them up on the deal [TS]

00:53:35   and again I don't blame them because if I was a car maker I be like a few [TS]

00:53:38   basically doing is cutting us out the needs and saying you're have a car maker [TS]

00:53:42   now where the important you know [TS]

00:53:44   clear that will come in and become the most valuable differentiator of our car [TS]

00:53:48   line really getting us to a mere manufacturer of a drive train and bodies [TS]

00:53:52   nobody wants to do that right but I can imagine Apple wanting to do that and [TS]

00:53:57   maybe that's plan a and Plan B is just by Tesla implant see is what you make [TS]

00:54:02   your own damn car and that's that's held an extrapolation of the order of events [TS]

00:54:07   and I don't know what kind of gas there are between plan ab&c but plan a sounds [TS]

00:54:10   plausible that Apple would want to be more involved in the interior of a car [TS]

00:54:15   and car players like the weakest most piddling little attempt to get Apple [TS]

00:54:20   anything inside a car yet that's exactly what I was driving at and I come back to [TS]

00:54:26   maybe you know when we started this conversation one of you think John had [TS]

00:54:30   asked well who is the apple of cars and maybe the better question is who's the [TS]

00:54:36   AT&T who is the most beleaguered who is the most desperate who is the most [TS]

00:54:41   willing to let Apple just sauntering Cingular actually around sorry that's [TS]

00:54:46   very true I do you mean Cingular so who is the most desperately in most willing [TS]

00:54:51   to let Apple you know just waltz in and take over the show [TS]

00:54:56   and and I don't know who that he's today for a male know it everyone's already [TS]

00:55:03   owned by somebody else [TS]

00:55:04   beleaguered brand you know Tata field Rd bob dole's his left eye but you see my [TS]

00:55:10   point right I mean who is most willing to do that I think Saab before they [TS]

00:55:15   disappear Kasab is dead now right [TS]

00:55:18   Jim bought them right and and and then spun them off at otter just let them die [TS]

00:55:22   one of the other but I don't like Saturn [TS]

00:55:25   they're gone to what kind of shape is Nissan in I thought they were doing well [TS]

00:55:31   Mitsubishi was hurting last I heard yet Mitsubishi but like but they don't offer [TS]

00:55:36   good card travel to get stuff inside like you know the cars are much more [TS]

00:55:41   important part of of the entire project in the cell network was for the iPhone [TS]

00:55:45   arguably even when they pick like the bad cell network rate and also the phone [TS]

00:55:50   always had sort of like if we do well obviously will expand our time we won't [TS]

00:55:54   be AT&T Cingular only for every successful whereas if you're successful [TS]

00:55:58   the car ready think every car companies so yeah totally I'll be coming into our [TS]

00:56:02   like it's not I don't see a path toward that I can just give you do something [TS]

00:56:07   like our place where you try to get buy-in from this could still work like [TS]

00:56:11   you're not only interior but every interior has a place where you can put [TS]

00:56:15   your crap and some limited integration of course sandra is trying to do the [TS]

00:56:18   same thing like I think be the prospects for car player similar for the prospects [TS]

00:56:24   of you buy your TV from someone else and let us control some part of the [TS]

00:56:29   interface and in practice that kinda sorta works like that the puck device [TS]

00:56:33   category like well we don't make your TV we don't control the interface as you [TS]

00:56:37   bring up to adjust the picture controls we don't control any of that we don't [TS]

00:56:41   control your remote but you can have this box on your inputs and use our own [TS]

00:56:45   lower mode and then we sort of take over your TV not great but it works and other [TS]

00:56:50   people try to do so that's car played at the Android car thing or whatever but [TS]

00:56:54   that's not gonna get us to like that's not gonna resolve our dissatisfaction in [TS]

00:56:58   the same way that doesn't make us all of our TVs because at 7 a.m. [TS]

00:57:02   well and also it's it's not a great metaphor because like TVs are kinda just [TS]

00:57:06   need to be taken over where is caught like if you want to properly integrated [TS]

00:57:11   to a car system and take over the UI you need to be integrated into a lot more [TS]

00:57:15   it's a lot more complicated than just like oh there's a giant screen take it [TS]

00:57:18   over like most cars have multiple displays and gauges and different [TS]

00:57:24   control services all over the place and all sorted everything to get into really [TS]

00:57:27   wanted to take it over and over time it's only going to get more complicated [TS]

00:57:31   like look at what our fancy cars have we have the heads-up displays we have [TS]

00:57:35   cameras in in the mirror to look at stuff on the road you got centers all [TS]

00:57:39   around the car you got the mint navigation screen media controls you got [TS]

00:57:43   navigation itself all these like the mobile office BS all these different [TS]

00:57:47   things like that and then the number of systems in cars that are that are gonna [TS]

00:57:52   be integrated into everyday models is gonna keep going up over time as you see [TS]

00:57:57   get cheaper so the model of car players doing now is always going to be very [TS]

00:58:06   limited and it is really if anything gonna keep being relegated to a smaller [TS]

00:58:11   and smaller proportion of the car's overall smarts and displays but like [TS]

00:58:15   television the car interior is under attack from usurpers from the outside [TS]

00:58:20   like automatic as an example like a sponsor the podcast let's use everything [TS]

00:58:25   into a standard part in your car and give it a bunch of features that should [TS]

00:58:28   have had an already if car manufacturers knew what they were doing but they don't [TS]

00:58:31   say when we all used to have GPS is stuck inside our cars when did you know [TS]

00:58:35   when it wasn't on our phones and it wasn't built into the cars that was an [TS]

00:58:39   attack from the outside hey carmakers know what the hell they were doing every [TS]

00:58:42   car has GPS built-in adults about its government thing and suction cup of tea [TS]

00:58:45   or dashboard right everyone connecting iPod CD stereo systems long for [TS]

00:58:50   carmakers got a clue like there is a constant assault from outside world of [TS]

00:58:54   the fast-moving technology sector to do things that sometimes it's just kind of [TS]

00:58:59   like taking advantage of your car hardware sometimes is entirely separate [TS]

00:59:03   system like the GPS but sometimes like automatic it's like [TS]

00:59:06   you know help you find your car in the parking lot why can't you do not already [TS]

00:59:09   carmakers have no idea what they're doing by this thing and we will help you [TS]

00:59:12   do it right and I don't know that's not gonna win like they're going to [TS]

00:59:16   overwhelm from the outside because they can't and you totally right like [TS]

00:59:19   attaching a bunch of these things like it's boris then attaching parks or do [TS]

00:59:23   you like the experience should be entirely integrated should know how fast [TS]

00:59:26   your car is going where you're probably going to watch pressures in the tires [TS]

00:59:30   with the current GeForce being pulled this whether it's ok to interrupt you [TS]

00:59:33   but the call because it knows how you like total integration like that's the [TS]

00:59:37   No yes what could Apple add to the car experience if this is maybe the [TS]

00:59:42   idealized that they could add an interface that takes into account all [TS]

00:59:45   those things in a way no car maker has and do it all without relying on a bunch [TS]

00:59:50   of other stuff that you stick inside the car [TS]

00:59:53   yeah I think you guys are both right the only thing that makes me doubt you is [TS]

00:59:59   what if they were to enter into a car into work with a car manufacturer that [TS]

01:00:06   already has a bus like I think Volkswagen for example and I'm not [TS]

01:00:10   talking buses in what the Brits would call coach I'm saying service Boston so [TS]

01:00:15   as an example I think that volkswagen has some hilariously named in mildly [TS]

01:00:21   inappropriate service boss that all of their different components talk to you [TS]

01:00:27   and I think BMW does the same thing actually in presumably most modern car [TS]

01:00:31   manufacturers deal so maybe this isn't really narrow it down at all but like my [TS]

01:00:36   friend brian has who had a able to ignore 32 I remember that he had done [TS]

01:00:42   something I don't recall the specifics but he had done something with the [TS]

01:00:46   Volkswagen can buses I believe it's called think about doctors in the chat [TS]

01:00:49   we are seeing my Canada gauge or something like that whatever he did he [TS]

01:00:54   did something that was possible because basically all of the cars different [TS]

01:00:59   computers are talking to each other more common bus and so if that were the case [TS]

01:01:03   since a Volkswagen BMW or something like that then maybe they could do something [TS]

01:01:08   more than just the fairly rudimentary car play implementation they have now [TS]

01:01:13   maybe they could add cages not not say that gauges are really be all end all [TS]

01:01:16   but just as simple example [TS]

01:01:18   something like that is possible without presumably too much work if they can [TS]

01:01:22   just get their selves [TS]

01:01:23   get themselves onto the campus yet but as soon as anyone does that as soon as a [TS]

01:01:28   proposal that they're gonna just lock it down you know it was like jon said like [TS]

01:01:31   the car manufacturers can I don't want someone else to come take over their [TS]

01:01:37   systems and plug into their systems like they want to control the whole thing [TS]

01:01:40   from lots of good reasons like it for themselves for their businesses for [TS]

01:01:44   safety but there are so many reasons why they're not gonna let anyone else just [TS]

01:01:48   plug into their bus and drive all over it [TS]

01:01:51   microsoft did that with Ford right when they the like the Ford mytouch interior [TS]

01:01:56   thing like Microsoft partner in with them it was a two desperate companies I [TS]

01:01:59   mean the whole ideas like that it's almost as if it was 24 advantage for [TS]

01:02:06   that interface enough work to do because like I said if the reason people are [TS]

01:02:10   buying your cars because everybody knows that the car with the awesome Apple [TS]

01:02:13   interfacing like you gotta check like if that becomes the value proposition of [TS]

01:02:17   your car if it is the differentiator you don't like people are buying your car [TS]

01:02:22   not because of something you did you are giving some portion of value and [TS]

01:02:26   attractiveness and hearing your product and you're giving the most important [TS]

01:02:29   portion of that Apple like it's kind of like that you know the cell network you [TS]

01:02:33   know we want an iPhone or networking turns out that people don't care what [TS]

01:02:37   network is that they'll get AT&T if it means they have the iPhone the iPhone [TS]

01:02:40   becomes the most important thing is not gonna make you love AT&T know it's gonna [TS]

01:02:46   make you believe the iPhone that is the differentiator and that's where the [TS]

01:02:49   value is not just want you to be a dumb pipe into your said well but that's [TS]

01:02:52   exactly what for did with the Myford think whatever was that which was [TS]

01:02:57   Microsoft behind the scenes and they they made it clear that it was Microsoft [TS]

01:03:00   was a selling point right but it wasn't that good and no one was buying forward [TS]

01:03:06   because of a sudden people brought forward because everyone knew that for [TS]

01:03:10   the cars with the great interfaces that like they've never had that reputation [TS]

01:03:13   that was that was never the value proposition of a Ford and if it had [TS]

01:03:17   become one [TS]

01:03:18   feel like I was going to buy before but now everybody tells me like the same [TS]

01:03:22   reason like I'm not into Apple but everyone tells me i phone is an awesome [TS]

01:03:25   cell phones I'm interested in going to check it out right I guess but I mean to [TS]

01:03:30   take it on its flip side I feel like I've heard many times that say cadillacs [TS]

01:03:35   navigation interface is just atrociously bad we talked a long time especially [TS]

01:03:40   Marco about how awful the Lexus interfaces so yeah maybe you don't want [TS]

01:03:43   to be a selling point but you certainly don't want to be a liability either yeah [TS]

01:03:47   you're kind of right there was no Microsoft desperation before it is [TS]

01:03:50   actually one of the American car company that is not constantly making terrible [TS]

01:03:54   cars and being bailed out by the government in like you know if you had [TS]

01:03:57   to pick what is what is the best American carmaker makes for a pretty [TS]

01:04:02   strong case to be major forward in terms of both financial health of the company [TS]

01:04:05   and that the quality of the vehicles they pay out there's spot exceptions you [TS]

01:04:09   can see you can find exceptional cars and you know the other makers as well [TS]

01:04:13   but Ford overall was not the most desperate of all companies I find a [TS]

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01:07:03   you don't take any credit card and hope you can cancel that real free trial no [TS]

01:07:09   credit card required go to Squarespace dot com enter offer code ATP at checkout [TS]

01:07:13   to get 10% off thanks to Squarespace for supporting our show Squarespace start [TS]

01:07:18   here go anywhere right anything else on cars one more thing I think [TS]

01:07:23   we have more than one with one of our major thing to bring this back down to [TS]

01:07:28   earth now i three weeks of follow-up to buy these let's all now assume that [TS]

01:07:34   Apple is not going to make it but let's assume that these rumors about some [TS]

01:07:38   large project at Apple involving cars and some way that is not Street View and [TS]

01:07:44   that is not merely an extension of existing car plagues it's because if it [TS]

01:07:47   this Wall Street Journal article I say get a bunch of things wrong and I guess [TS]

01:07:51   is wrong about what these people are doing but there really is a large number [TS]

01:07:54   of people [TS]

01:07:55   Apple's gearing up and I like it like Barbara said this seems crazy these [TS]

01:07:59   people all be working on car plate so they're not making your car and it is [TS]

01:08:02   not about Street View and it is not currently but it is correlated with the [TS]

01:08:07   hell is it and honestly I think East Street View style project from the [TS]

01:08:12   little mini vans that we've already seen pictures of that I don't know if we [TS]

01:08:16   definitely know that they're from Apple I think that's kind of vague as to what [TS]

01:08:18   the connection is but assume they are I think that would be enough to have a big [TS]

01:08:24   staff and a big lab like that might be the reason that might be all this is [TS]

01:08:29   because you know quote all this is is actually a place to do a street you kind [TS]

01:08:34   of thing is a huge project but why would that be in a big building [TS]

01:08:38   well it's a lot of data a lot of software right a lot of a lot of data to [TS]

01:08:42   manage and people to manage and a fleet of vehicles to manage I mean that's a [TS]

01:08:46   that's a big job there's a reason why why only Google has that feature right [TS]

01:08:51   now I don't think anybody else introduce people to fly over there are not nearly [TS]

01:08:55   as good I don't think anyone else did Street View accept them right not to my [TS]

01:09:00   knowledge it's all the rumors like a thousand-person team like they're doing [TS]

01:09:03   Street View which I probably think they are I would imagine this effort to be [TS]

01:09:06   more distributed by necessarily more distributed to all the cars of the view [TS]

01:09:10   from california coming back to California [TS]

01:09:12   well is Apple it like all the AOL traffic going through Virginia [TS]

01:09:18   it just doesn't seem to like I believe the street view thing a hundred percent [TS]

01:09:22   and I suppose that could take maybe a hundred people but not a thousand [TS]

01:09:27   and i dont not sure I would hire anyone from a car company to lead that because [TS]

01:09:31   that's more of a I would hire someone from like a mapping company or someone [TS]

01:09:35   who you know their exact positions they get the keyhole or whatever company they [TS]

01:09:40   gave them their map data like it just doesn't fit with this rumor that with [TS]

01:09:45   you know I guess it depends on how much of the Wall Street Journal article you [TS]

01:09:49   think they got correction I'm willing to believe that they got everything correct [TS]

01:09:51   except what these people are doing I'm going to believe that day that the [TS]

01:09:54   number of people is right that they're sort of general location is right that [TS]

01:09:58   the people who are leaving them are correctly identified but they just are [TS]

01:10:03   guessing wrong about what people are doing is they're actually making car [TS]

01:10:06   they're doing something and I'm not sure that something as I mean the reality is [TS]

01:10:11   like if you if you take the collection of facts are true I think making the car [TS]

01:10:17   is the most likely conclusion to draw from that it's not what I wanted to be [TS]

01:10:22   doing it's not what I think they should be doing as from today I mean this could [TS]

01:10:27   also you know it if you see it you said people in 2004 Chevy make a phone you [TS]

01:10:33   hear from a lot of people who would say yes but a lot of people who is a well [TS]

01:10:36   maybe they should really focus on the computers you know so we don't know I [TS]

01:10:41   don't know by saying I don't think we should really do this maybe they will [TS]

01:10:46   blow us away I don't think it's very likely just because I think they can [TS]

01:10:51   make our the design very well but I think about like you know if if you look [TS]

01:10:57   at like TVs and why again I dunno I said earlier but if you look at why didn't [TS]

01:11:02   make a TV I think one of the reasons they don't make a TV is that TV's really [TS]

01:11:06   have very little interface but the TV itself like the box of the plug into it [TS]

01:11:12   have an interface the TV itself has very little interference really you're [TS]

01:11:17   basically making tiny just been sometimes [TS]

01:11:20   value maybe and then picking inputs but that's basically what you're doing [TS]

01:11:24   everything else now you know your plug in a box and do you think there's ITV's [TS]

01:11:28   like Apple could not bring a whole lot to that because most of the TV does Adam [TS]

01:11:34   screen that you turn on and off and pick inputs from the day overtone the whole [TS]

01:11:37   screen it's like a welcome to bring to the fore [TS]

01:11:39   it's basically just a big screen they own everything on screen it defines the [TS]

01:11:42   experience but they already have that with the box anyway so compare that to [TS]

01:11:47   the car [TS]

01:11:48   actual car usage like getting out earlier know simply how much an apple [TS]

01:11:54   bring to dislike as you're using your car [TS]

01:11:58   what what parts of what you're doing in your car when you're actually owning and [TS]

01:12:02   driving a car what parts of that process and the experience are you heavily [TS]

01:12:08   interacting with something where interface quality isn't that important I [TS]

01:12:11   think one of the reasons why cars have such mediocre interfaces so often is [TS]

01:12:16   because it does it really matter that much because for the most part you're [TS]

01:12:20   barely ever looking at the controls I hope and you're not doing that much [TS]

01:12:24   there's like 12 buttons like they're doing a massive amount of things you're [TS]

01:12:29   not running reform software for plenty of good reasons that probably won't [TS]

01:12:33   change there's not that much going on there and and many of these advances [TS]

01:12:39   like probably shouldn't happen for safety reasons why I really doubt what [TS]

01:12:45   value Apple could realistically bring to this that would make it worth all this [TS]

01:12:50   trouble all this has all the risk of the expense of the loss of focus I don't [TS]

01:12:54   like what problem are re- Lee desperate for an apple cart to solve and and all [TS]

01:13:03   of us agree that cars often have you know pretty pretty mediocre interfaces [TS]

01:13:08   but all the still drive these cars are mediocre face it we all chose to buy the [TS]

01:13:13   ones we bought for different reasons really so not only do I think Apple [TS]

01:13:18   could make a huge difference here but I'm also skeptical as to whether they [TS]

01:13:22   would succeed much in the market because like people by car so many different [TS]

01:13:26   reasons beyond the things Apple's good at well I mean Apple's good fashion to [TS]

01:13:32   buy cars for those reasons but I think your view of what Apple can bring to [TS]

01:13:35   this is too narrow like it's not just about the user interface like bringing [TS]

01:13:38   the things that Aeschylus essentially already brought to it only bring it to [TS]

01:13:41   more people that the ownership and use experience of an electric car is I think [TS]

01:13:46   significantly different from [TS]

01:13:47   an internal combustion engine car and it also different from a hybrid and all the [TS]

01:13:51   parts in the car that don't necessarily have to do with driving getting in and [TS]

01:13:55   out of it like the ownership experience the maintenance experience like what the [TS]

01:13:59   car looks like how big it can be where can fit like this [TS]

01:14:02   the places you can innovate with an electric car where you can innovate with [TS]

01:14:06   internal combustion engines you have different constraints and Tesla's doing [TS]

01:14:08   that now and that that is the that's what I call them the apple of cars like [TS]

01:14:12   that is what they're bringing it to it and yes also hopefully making the [TS]

01:14:15   interior of nature interfacing having integration with your iPhone having you [TS]

01:14:18   know like all things you would expect them to do but I think it's the sort of [TS]

01:14:23   total ownership experience that that Apple would be bring to it but I keep [TS]

01:14:29   going back to what Apple is making the car you said if this rumor is true [TS]

01:14:34   mostly the most likely thing like you do you think they're right about everything [TS]

01:14:36   is making a car I have to think like thousand-person seems too small and I [TS]

01:14:43   would think they would have to be something as article about them hiring [TS]

01:14:45   Automotive Engineers carmakers like watching people from different parts of [TS]

01:14:49   the organization like if I just look at these facts what it looks like they're [TS]

01:14:53   doing if I say everything is bolstered Journal article is correct is there [TS]

01:14:57   working on something having to do with interfaces inside cars it does not look [TS]

01:15:00   to me like they're making a car because this you know if everything is true I [TS]

01:15:06   would think you should be hiring way way way way way more mechanical engineers [TS]

01:15:10   Automotive Engineers and stuff like that and be much less concerned about like [TS]

01:15:15   watching people from the rest of the organization to do like software and [TS]

01:15:18   just hiring like it just it just seems like this again unless you're buying [TS]

01:15:22   test laboratory comes to those people at the this rumor the most likely thing [TS]

01:15:28   that everything was insurance articles like out there doing something much more [TS]

01:15:31   significant having to do with the interior cars that's what it looks like [TS]

01:15:34   me [TS]

01:15:35   i think im bored by that too was speaking a boring what if it's something [TS]

01:15:41   even more boring than anything we've discussed like what if they're just [TS]

01:15:44   using their their knowledge of system-on-a-chip and building at a NEC [TS]

01:15:51   you or what if they're building a custom ECU to work with their custom head unit [TS]

01:15:55   two vertically integrated of the business attorneys all the electronics [TS]

01:16:01   and software in a car but it could be any hard candy GM's can be four it [TS]

01:16:04   snowed could be better Bentley who cares and it's a very boring answer which is [TS]

01:16:09   why I don't think it's really Apple style but it's a possibility they've [TS]

01:16:12   gotten pretty good at chip design yeah but like I was going to buy it like it [TS]

01:16:16   don't think they wanna be a parts vendor for carmakers like that said to lose [TS]

01:16:20   your business like anything anything where you think and Apple then to this [TS]

01:16:24   product or service or technology to all the car makers that is kind of the same [TS]

01:16:28   reason they can to make a TV and Apple technology work with every cable company [TS]

01:16:34   and all the TV like the industry does not want that is not liable to come in [TS]

01:16:38   and do what they did the music industry and I'm not going to do that to my [TS]

01:16:46   industry right and they basically did to the cell phone industry to like it was [TS]

01:16:49   all about they did the music industry and like damn now Apple has way more [TS]

01:16:52   power to every one of them to how to begin the situation and then it was like [TS]

01:16:57   the video companies you know TV movies like were not going to let out will do [TS]

01:17:00   what they did to the music companies and they were super resistant and it helped [TS]

01:17:04   competitors have areas like that cough we learned our lesson [TS]

01:17:07   the people who didn't learn that lesson for the cell phone companies they [TS]

01:17:10   weren't paying enough attention like you helped build the record companies yet [TS]

01:17:13   the movies did you scare them like they were you thinking about themselves and I [TS]

01:17:17   became did the same thing actually like how did this happen [TS]

01:17:21   the car makers I would hope would let that if only because of pride and [TS]

01:17:27   stubbornness which is it seems to be very strong in the car business because [TS]

01:17:31   there are so few car companies in because so many like long story [TS]

01:17:34   traditions having to do with families and everything that they do not want an [TS]

01:17:38   outsider coming in and like everybody's got a different users agree that and and [TS]

01:17:45   signal the known anybody coming in tone their business but I don't like it seems [TS]

01:17:51   to me that Apple if it wants to do something having to do with cars and I [TS]

01:17:56   think they seem to be starting in the interior and growing slowly and so [TS]

01:18:00   unless they by Tesla which they totally should because it would be great I don't [TS]

01:18:04   see them making a car thanks a lot for three sponsored this week [TS]

01:18:08   cards against humanity fracture and Squarespace and we will see you next [TS]

01:18:12   week [TS]

01:18:16   now the show they didn't even mean to begin as it was accidental [TS]

01:18:23   accidental john Kasay [TS]

01:18:31   because it was accidental and a team article [TS]

01:19:14   we didn't even mention that it's shaped like a minivan God can imagine that had [TS]

01:19:21   it has to be maybe like maybe it's a compact hatchback of some sort but even [TS]

01:19:26   thats kinda just mean that's a play I guess where his remarks well you know I [TS]

01:19:31   should cars you can have things like that leaf did look sort of small smart [TS]

01:19:36   cars that are owned by like you can end up with a car that is for lack of a [TS]

01:19:42   better term dorky looking at it all just about like oh it's a little commuter [TS]

01:19:45   cars for transportation purposes and that's what's interesting to me as well [TS]

01:19:50   but then I can imagine someone who doesn't know anything about cars seeing [TS]

01:19:52   that Tesla Model X and saying it's kind of like a minivan like anything that [TS]

01:19:57   doesn't look like you know Ford Crown Victoria from their childhood wouldn't [TS]

01:20:04   you wouldn't see defaults SUV rather than minivan if you didn't know any [TS]

01:20:07   better [TS]

01:20:08   didn't know anything about cars I would imagine has front looks like an [TS]

01:20:13   even-handed like a lot of front overhang because you don't have an engine there [TS]

01:20:16   and you can get better passenger packaging like the smart cards look you [TS]

01:20:20   know I mean like if you make that a little bit larger and profit up it [TS]

01:20:23   doesn't have like a nose that doesn't have a hood [TS]

01:20:27   or chrome I don't know that that's of all the the doomsday scenarios them [TS]

01:20:33   making some low electric commuter car like a leaf for like it was just so i [TS]

01:20:38   understand because that is and I just really already begun a live interview [TS]

01:20:42   ride so good I did how did like half of it so far [TS]

01:20:49   everyone's raving about that article but if you have read Katie's johnnie I have [TS]

01:20:54   booked a lot of that article read like a book report on the Johnny a book which [TS]

01:20:58   is not to say it's a bad thing is it's great [TS]

01:21:00   like if you haven't read the book does a lot of information and of course the [TS]

01:21:03   actual interviews and access and that's the good part of the article a lot of it [TS]

01:21:06   I felt like I was waiting for information that I already knew from the [TS]

01:21:08   book that's not a slam in the article just why find it difficult to get [TS]

01:21:12   through but anyway at one point johnnie I have my side of the window of his [TS]

01:21:15   Bentley the Toyota Echo next doing complaints of the styling is terrible so [TS]

01:21:19   I don't think it's beyond the realm of possibility dead Apple would be [TS]

01:21:28   interested in designing a car and that it would be a dorky car like this is a [TS]

01:21:32   dark like small you know commuter car for people who don't need to go long [TS]

01:21:39   distances and owning a so much better for people who never even want to own a [TS]

01:21:42   car [TS]

01:21:43   only this is so much unlike on your car that it will be great for you and you [TS]

01:21:46   they would never do that it accused the board of Ferrari and you know Jony ive [TS]

01:21:50   has Aston Martins and like they like great cool cars but johnnie I was [TS]

01:21:55   looking to stay and play the echo not because I think he thinks this Art Deco [TS]

01:21:58   like the idea of a small economical cars terrible but just because he thought it [TS]

01:22:01   wasn't designed in his mind is like I could do a little car that's much better [TS]

01:22:05   than he was also picking on somebody down i mean Toyota has not made an [TS]

01:22:09   attractive since at least the nineties if not earlier but was in a super-g at [TS]

01:22:14   all papi was all done in 10 somebody really likes this is one that barely [TS]

01:22:18   remember the original Nexus S II coupe interesting designed really the Lexus CT [TS]

01:22:25   about the convertible hardtop original IC you guys maybe don't look at it that [TS]

01:22:32   you like that like super old [TS]

01:22:35   are you gotta go back in time like 11 2001 Lexus came out of the company they [TS]

01:22:39   have one that say they have a picture here of 93292 to the sc300 sc400 [TS]

01:22:46   looks kinda like an integrity Miata had a baby and this is like to know what [TS]

01:22:50   came out i mean but compared like this is comparatively much tighter like as in [TS]

01:22:56   the skin is stretched must I drove this car that this is the innovative thing [TS]

01:23:00   about this is not like it but i'm looking back a bit like wow look how [TS]

01:23:04   smoothing curb the front and back are like this before cars became water [TS]

01:23:08   balloons but this is ever reading a story about this that one of the design [TS]

01:23:14   inspirations for the styling of his car was literally taking a water balloon [TS]

01:23:18   squeezing it and seeing sweeping with your hands seeing the different shapes [TS]

01:23:22   that is the reason to but compared this to like current actual water balloon [TS]

01:23:27   cars and this looks like a sporty and smelt and just I'm not sure I agree with [TS]

01:23:33   you on how good this is Marco this is not a very attractive card all it's a [TS]

01:23:38   little bit dated but at the time it came out it was a very refined and stylish [TS]

01:23:43   and it was a distinctive it didn't look like a Mercedes or BMW unlike for [TS]

01:23:47   example the s400 which was like you know the poor man's Mercedes literally only [TS]

01:23:51   ten times more reliable quieter but it was it was like this in the original G S [TS]

01:23:57   actually had some distinctive styling cues were you could say this is like you [TS]

01:24:01   know the current line alexis is also investing to start using our styling is [TS]

01:24:06   a big giant ugly bow-tie mouth Acura I i would really say like like this year the [TS]

01:24:12   last couple years have really not been kind to most car design we've had some [TS]

01:24:17   really really bad it recently I really like the new court and I like the new [TS]

01:24:23   five series to happen to be two of our cars but I think the styling of those [TS]

01:24:26   cars took a definite turn for the better beat the previous generation with but [TS]

01:24:30   ugly in the previous generation five was not good [TS]

01:24:33   yeah I agree with those actually but you can look around the industry you can see [TS]

01:24:36   a lot of things get sticky seem to keeping workers like for example [TS]

01:24:41   everything Acura makes every Acura every Lexus some BMW's if I can say I really [TS]

01:24:48   don't like the new m3 styling as we've just as we talk about this collapse I [TS]

01:24:52   don't like that at all I don't like a cure i think is a little bit of an [TS]

01:24:56   upswing is the head they had a really serious unfortunate be care and there I [TS]

01:25:01   think they're trying to come out of that like the MDX like the low point just [TS]

01:25:06   terror acts whatever that thing like I think they're starting to come out of it [TS]

01:25:11   I think when they emerged that merge their high incidence back together into [TS]

01:25:15   whatever it is they are on the TSX NRL became the same that is a [TS]

01:25:20   rationalization and the styling of that car is not entirely hideous and really [TS]

01:25:25   DRL wasn't entirely it is often a weird direction I think that you could try to [TS]

01:25:30   come back like BMW went off in a direction to in there trying to gather [TS]

01:25:34   it back but you know that the new 3 series starting off in a way direction [TS]

01:25:39   again [TS]

01:25:39   55 was the baby the peak comeback period and we'll see what the next five looks [TS]

01:25:44   like to see if it gets better or worse the Maximus terrible these days don't [TS]

01:25:50   even look at the maximum are just don't look all my god I heard it was getting [TS]

01:25:54   better as it had some dark times but it is just getting worse I missed I miss [TS]

01:25:58   the 40 S E 96 Maxima was it wasn't it was an incredibly attractive but it was [TS]

01:26:05   it was at least neutral saying this is the new one oh boy she's what they do [TS]

01:26:11   and what is wrong with Nissan what a shame the maximum was so good at it lost [TS]

01:26:16   its way suppose severely Nissan had some interesting things like the when the [TS]

01:26:21   Altima to the wraparound taillights like I was going a little bit too far but at [TS]

01:26:25   least it was interesting and I think the maximum like one or two generations ago [TS]

01:26:30   also had some interesting features it was stopped on a puffy in the right [TS]

01:26:34   direction in the majors lost generation [TS]

01:26:38   I miss neutral the ultimate pretty rough these days to thinking car market is not [TS]

01:26:46   that welcoming as of late you're really that's a that's compelling these days [TS]

01:26:53   well I think I think the move to electric is interesting you know it's [TS]

01:26:56   still it's still pretty limited and expensive but I think that that's like [TS]

01:27:02   you it's similar to move to SSDs and computers like that is that's clearly [TS]

01:27:07   the way forward [TS]

01:27:08   eventually obviously it's gonna move more slowly than the city transition but [TS]

01:27:13   turns out gas engines are good enough for so many things and way better it's [TS]

01:27:20   at certain other things that like it's gonna it's gonna be a long time before [TS]

01:27:24   gas engines are in the minority but I i think i think the electric cars are [TS]

01:27:30   going to be where we are looking for excitement and whether you know maybe [TS]

01:27:34   that's why Apple wants to be a part of it if they do who knows but you know [TS]

01:27:37   clearly from from people who who have driven them are from people who own them [TS]

01:27:41   there are a lot of compelling differences to them there still are [TS]

01:27:46   downsides but we'll get there [TS]

01:27:49   2015 Maxima I was thinking I was thinking of the 2014 12051 holy cow it [TS]

01:27:57   even worse I'm speechless [TS]

01:28:04   since last time when I first saw the rear end to the c7 Corvette like this [TS]

01:28:09   the last time I felt this way what is that may be at the concept I i just then [TS]

01:28:22   search for Nissan Maxima 2015 just the concept of a little bit better but like [TS]

01:28:27   yeah this is this is not a shipping car but if it was that would be a big [TS]

01:28:32   mistake [TS]

01:28:33   think that it's not an attractive vehicle at least it would be different I [TS]

01:28:37   mean like you could you describe this one as polarizing whereas the regular [TS]

01:28:42   max but you can just described as mediocre to bad you know this polarizing [TS]

01:28:47   somebody will love this [TS]

01:28:49   you know people with bad taste probably but somebody will love this [TS]

01:28:52   where the current maximum nobody can love it that's what I was thinking of [TS]

01:28:55   the current when we're like that design with a little little corner cut out of [TS]

01:28:59   the headlights the first time they did that was interesting but now it looks [TS]

01:29:04   like a mistake it is look it looks like somebody like somebody just screwed up [TS]

01:29:09   while dragging others design and 3d modeling software everybody Google 404 [TS]

01:29:14   2014 to cleanse your palate this guy did the Maxima was at the end of the really [TS]

01:29:21   sappy Super Bowl commercial from this year the one where the dads race car [TS]

01:29:25   driver and and he liked picks us up from school or something like that where they [TS]

01:29:30   killed children to advertise and I said sappy not stupid anyway the dad like [TS]

01:29:36   picks up the kids after he's missed his entire childhood but he picks up a new [TS]

01:29:40   Maximus all's forgiven I put the link in the chat about one minute 16 seconds [TS]

01:29:45   give or take a little bit with this i'm looking at the 2014 Honda Accord to [TS]

01:29:49   cleanse my palate and you're ready to dig them out because it just looks [TS]

01:29:52   completely forgettable like a hybrid of looking at the alexa.com it's just it's [TS]

01:30:02   just like it's just incredibly bland it even in in that light silver color that [TS]

01:30:06   all incredibly bland cars in the last decade have been landed his distinctive [TS]

01:30:10   it is not on bloody attractive has nice wheels I really like a sheet metal is [TS]

01:30:18   stuck to the car [TS]

01:30:20   yes I yeah I will I will give you that point and it is a car shaped car yes wow [TS]

01:30:26   it's not shaped like a snail or a poop our standards are pretty low here this [TS]

01:30:30   is this is this is what made you look at the maximal what does that shape like [TS]

01:30:34   not a car that is the epitome of water balloon design I actually do not think [TS]

01:30:39   the Accord is very good looking to be honest with you you don't really need [TS]

01:30:42   that spoiler lip on the back to keep the wheels on the ground really fast does [TS]

01:30:46   down for so that I think the rear end is not great but it's better than past the [TS]

01:30:53   courts but I really like the front of it and even just a little bit too much [TS]

01:30:56   chrome on the front just look at all the other hand is that are trying to use the [TS]

01:31:00   same day [TS]

01:31:01   sign language and how gross they are and this is the one car that got this design [TS]

01:31:04   language to be attractive this looks no different to me than what's the big [TS]

01:31:10   Toyota Camry this is so different go actually look at a camera camera now [TS]

01:31:14   Camry you will see their money to see them in person it's not a record [TS]

01:31:20   rectilinear headlights look at the camera now and it looks the exact same [TS]

01:31:25   it might just not I would say the Accord looks better I would see the difference [TS]

01:31:30   is pretty small thank you I would agree with that more know how a giant fish [TS]

01:31:34   mouth looks like it's just the camera has nothing going for it [TS]

01:31:39   know it has no distinction to its design is just a series of little details [TS]

01:31:44   tacked onto squishy shape I would say the same thing is true the according to [TS]

01:31:49   look like there's not a lot going on here there's it is a very like like it [TS]

01:31:54   if you think about what what would be the dictionary definition of a car would [TS]

01:31:57   have a picture of this next to it if you if you if you like those pictures where [TS]

01:32:01   the average every human face and then the most average would not be the [TS]

01:32:07   averages is different [TS]

01:32:08   averaged together like the Camry and the maximum they do you do not get the [TS]

01:32:12   Accord is not the average it may have been the average of a bunch of cars like [TS]

01:32:16   a decade ago but it is it is off the beaten path of car makers now has [TS]

01:32:21   attractive and classy I would say classy and is not does not embarrass itself in [TS]

01:32:26   the way that the only cars do is it just disappears it just blends right into [TS]

01:32:30   whatever I don't think it disappears I think I think being classy in this way [TS]

01:32:33   doesn't disappear in the same way that like that Casey's beloved 5 series like [TS]

01:32:38   Moses boring just gonna blends into the background looks like our young thing [TS]

01:32:41   distinguishes this girl okay otherwise it's just a car shape car remember when [TS]

01:32:45   all the BMW's bra like the same shape just came in different sizes [TS]

01:32:48   not that different from now honestly it is now but they all have these boulders [TS]

01:32:52   in triples and flanges all over them and they all have different rules in place [TS]

01:32:56   to start when they were all the same the complaint was it's too boring it doesn't [TS]

01:33:01   doesn't have the excitement of you know I'm gonna spend much money a car to look [TS]

01:33:06   more exciting I just don't want to look like the same car in three sizes and [TS]

01:33:09   super boring but I think that's a you know having restraint in being sort of a [TS]

01:33:15   classic car that the places where it decides to emphasize its practices in [TS]

01:33:20   the small details but the overall shape is very just simple and non showing I [TS]

01:33:26   think it's perfectly well we're going to get screwed up with the back because the [TS]

01:33:28   taillights are particularly nice looking but the overall shape of the car i think [TS]

01:33:33   is very pleased to see your definition of classy to me what you're describing [TS]

01:33:36   is the e39 m5 when I think boring an unremarkable I think of pretty much any [TS]

01:33:42   accord that's ever been never a good example is the front air dam like the [TS]

01:33:47   big plastic front bumper thing we ever gonna call that so many carmakers [TS]

01:33:50   including I think most BMWs these days just go nuts with that thing and mess it [TS]

01:33:55   up with BMW's your right is that not talked about this a million times the [TS]

01:34:01   non M Sport front and front air dam on a regular BMW's like a little slit and it [TS]

01:34:06   looks awful it looks terrible most of the reason I insisted on getting myself [TS]

01:34:10   msport 335 was not because of anything else like it doesn't really go any [TS]

01:34:16   faster doesn't handle any better cuz I've next drive it was strictly for that [TS]

01:34:19   air dam because it actually looks good I think most of the things try to make [TS]

01:34:24   every you I get his giant jet in take some big scoops and flanges and thinks [TS]

01:34:28   poking out of it and that's why I think the import smart ones look worse than [TS]

01:34:31   the other ones [TS]

01:34:32   or at least more gaudy and just look at that look at the big front piece of [TS]

01:34:37   plastic on the court it is restrained it does not to call attention to itself it [TS]

01:34:42   completes the shape of the car with maybe a little bit of a smarty [TS]

01:34:47   pretensions of like sticking out of the bottom rim little bit and with a little [TS]

01:34:50   tiny chrome accent but it does not just compared to the same part on an m3 [TS]

01:34:56   current generation m3 which is like screams at you that I'm a transformer [TS]

01:34:59   well but you're just you're making our point which is like the accord [TS]

01:35:03   looks like it looks average and forgettable it is like it doesn't jump [TS]

01:35:07   out at you know none of none of the designed just comes out and says look at [TS]

01:35:11   me I'm i'ma huge design flaw it just the whole car just looks like an average [TS]

01:35:17   completely forgettable car averaged car doesn't have those wheels and I would [TS]

01:35:20   say an average guy doesn't have led highlights in the headlights and you [TS]

01:35:26   know looking looking restrained I think it does make that again compared to the [TS]

01:35:29   Avalon which looks like a giant cheese grater fish grill flying through the air [TS]

01:35:32   hose on it like that is what the average is not this this is the average car like [TS]

01:35:40   that the ultimate is the average car that Maximas the average car camera is [TS]

01:35:45   the average car did not look like to compare that they just basically a room [TS]

01:35:48   with the Accord and said well you know he calls himself in the bad way and if [TS]

01:35:52   you averaged a bunch of cars together and think they look more like the app [TS]

01:35:55   London like all my god the Avalon is ridiculous what is that that's the [TS]

01:36:00   current that's like the Camry with little like this is uglier than the [TS]

01:36:05   maximum concept exactly like that's what the average car looks like now and look [TS]

01:36:09   at the well to go look at the camera [TS]

01:36:13   yeah you're right that that front air dam is the kind of front air dam that I [TS]

01:36:17   like the beginning whole taken way too far [TS]

01:36:21   entirely too far out on top of it as an ugly ugly chrome nose and it got me [TS]

01:36:25   shape in headlights hanging off the corners in the fog lights are all [TS]

01:36:28   Michigan we agree about this is that I'm using blown away by buy this car [TS]

01:36:34   by the Avalon like I i rented an Avalon a couple years ago on a trip and it was [TS]

01:36:40   it was a pretty reasonable Carly it was huge and and totally marshmallow ailich [TS]

01:36:45   you couldn't feel or do anything but it was overall a respectable choice like it [TS]

01:36:49   looked average it was black it was you know low-key it was pretty fast given [TS]

01:36:53   what it was and it was it was comfortable and it was fine it was it [TS]

01:36:58   was perfectly fine choice this my god I mean look at the goal is now go look at [TS]

01:37:04   the camera is pasted that is a look at the front piece of plastic on this [TS]

01:37:09   camera and look at the shape of the headline look at how to shape of the [TS]

01:37:11   headlights just have no conviction like and keep the Accord open another Windows [TS]

01:37:16   you keep looking back from one to the other [TS]

01:37:18   look at the rink in front of the camera all Camry and accord that basically the [TS]

01:37:21   same are you kidding me look at that way I didn't say they basically look the [TS]

01:37:25   same I did you see them both in front of you do you understand the card is very [TS]

01:37:31   different and if you average police cars together they wouldn't like that and [TS]

01:37:34   again throw and throw in the Altima throw in this this camera looks like [TS]

01:37:38   it's been an accident doesn't like the way it has a good like half fog lights [TS]

01:37:45   like on the side and in the whole front the whole front grille is like weirdly [TS]

01:37:49   shaped and black it looks like it was it was an accident and has been half [TS]

01:37:53   prepared and they haven't painted the new park see a look at the hood look at [TS]

01:37:57   the hood cut lines even look at the shape of the headlights look at the hood [TS]

01:38:00   cut lines look at look at the the lack of confidence in the chrome like it's [TS]

01:38:04   going across the things for the logo is just nothing and I think the only other [TS]

01:38:11   car company boring car company that has cars that have to styling that is not [TS]

01:38:16   embarrassing it uses Mazda mazda6 again did not look like other cars is [TS]

01:38:21   interesting as a family resemblance and has some interesting but it has has sort [TS]

01:38:26   of the courage of his convictions it says conviction right in the marketing [TS]

01:38:29   title conviction creativity courage this is what changes the game the first part [TS]

01:38:34   of the pics and has a 2007 Mazda 6 which i think is a very pretty car for the [TS]

01:38:40   time it [TS]

01:38:41   has less conviction that it has the kind of large front air dam that I like then [TS]

01:38:47   the generation after hers which started like 2008 2009 there was one or two [TS]

01:38:52   generations actually that were just terrible but I agree with you that the [TS]

01:38:56   brand new mazda6 maybe you're too old now is also very pretty and i also [TS]

01:39:00   really really like it and I don't like the styling as much as the accord but [TS]

01:39:04   you can't say that it looks like I think they've made it worse than when I just [TS]

01:39:08   paid it actually looks worse than the original generations but like it has [TS]

01:39:10   kind of shoulders and hips and its headlights have a purposeful distinct [TS]

01:39:15   shape same thing with its head cut lines everything about it is not like I hate [TS]

01:39:19   cars where it looks like the mold of the car out of clay and then someone else [TS]

01:39:23   came later and cut out where the hood would be even beyond the current BMW 3 [TS]

01:39:28   is with that the hood corners that end on the right and left that just by the [TS]

01:39:31   by the headlights like it looks like you made a car shape it was a good car shape [TS]

01:39:35   before you put where you cut out for the hood makes it less attractive not [TS]

01:39:40   integrated into the shape it's just that you took a laser images that you watch [TS]

01:39:48   that I video someone sent us an I watched two seconds of it I didn't have [TS]

01:39:52   a chance you should because first of all make Marco never buy this car which may [TS]

01:39:55   be good because we think we shouldn't he shouldn't buy this car so stop them from [TS]

01:39:58   so far I think I shouldn't buy this car so you need to any convincing the watch [TS]

01:40:03   I wish I never been denied because it is it is not a four-door sedan ultimately I [TS]

01:40:12   really just wanna four-door sedan and I'm very happy with the one you know [TS]

01:40:17   some of the chairman said to be in WI it's going to test anxiety test lives [TS]

01:40:20   with the exception of perhaps the stupid orientals is a actual real regular car [TS]

01:40:26   like use it everyday nothing about it is weird you can open and close all the [TS]

01:40:29   doors simply has weird or as well you can open and close all the different [TS]

01:40:33   truck catches you get in and get out of it has everything about it is just the [TS]

01:40:38   car drivers the aids like it's kind of a work of art [TS]

01:40:42   kind of kind of a a statement about something also kind of works as a car [TS]

01:40:48   you're careful alright so so let's let's take on the big guns now I don't think [TS]

01:40:53   the Tesla Model S is that [TS]

01:40:55   active it's not that the front of the front of the best things come out but [TS]

01:41:00   the overall shape is pretty decent I would say that the Model S looks like it [TS]

01:41:04   it looks extremely blobby [TS]

01:41:07   it looks like all the personalities been sanded off I don't like the light design [TS]

01:41:11   I don't like the front or the back design or the side design and I think [TS]

01:41:15   and I've seen a number of them in person and and I don't think they use very high [TS]

01:41:20   quality paint I've never split the black doesn't look very good looks boring like [TS]

01:41:26   you can look at certain cars like I would get blacks you can look at certain [TS]

01:41:29   cars you can see like certain blacks are better looking than others and test [TS]

01:41:34   light pink has a pretty crappy one and like it doesn't it doesn't look like its [TS]

01:41:38   price at all and for a car that is interesting and revolutionary I think it [TS]

01:41:44   should look a little more like that and doesn't that's test those weeks by the [TS]

01:41:48   Interior the same as well the materials of the Interior the comp supposedly in [TS]

01:41:52   the new models there's an option for much better seats but like the interior [TS]

01:41:55   of the materials that the comfort padding on the seeds like it just like [TS]

01:42:01   sitting outside of it you know the pain quality the detailing it seems like a [TS]

01:42:06   lower class then it should be I think the overall shape is actually pretty [TS]

01:42:10   good actually kind of interesting and muscular but it like the front and rear [TS]

01:42:13   and treatments do not do justice to the overall shape which is not bad like you [TS]

01:42:18   blend overall the headlights and taillights and got rid of that grow on [TS]

01:42:22   the front and just look like the car it looks in that regard think it does look [TS]

01:42:27   like an expensive car in the shape because most cars again maybe the [TS]

01:42:31   exception of like the mazda6 don't look sort of that that must give her and [TS]

01:42:37   purposeful especially car with as much interior of the model assets like it [TS]

01:42:40   doesn't look like [TS]

01:42:42   big giant crossover SUV thing that's lowered down but I mean [TS]

01:42:47   consider a game before a Tesla Roadster is flat out ugly like it was not an [TS]

01:42:51   attractive looking car all visitors to the shape of it was awkward and weird [TS]

01:42:54   and everything about it don't think that's true I thought was a decent [TS]

01:42:58   looking car meet granted it was basically just a lotus but I didn't [TS]

01:43:01   think it was a bad way better on that same frame than the Model S has [TS]

01:43:06   something to recommended it sort of defines a test look I don't particularly [TS]

01:43:09   good test look as bad attractive but I do like the overall shape of the card I [TS]

01:43:13   do think the shape looks little bit expensive but yet a detailing you can [TS]

01:43:16   get a yacht floor yeah there's an option for a yacht floor I think they are [TS]

01:43:22   cranking up here is a super duper famous telling me about the new model [TS]

01:43:27   got to drive one dealership gave him on when his was in the service of get drive [TS]

01:43:32   one of the new fast ones and everything and talked about the new options I think [TS]

01:43:35   like they realized their weaknesses are like people spend too much money on the [TS]

01:43:38   card they want the interior to feel better than $30,000 $35,000 B&W cloth [TS]

01:43:44   seats that are used to do in in European non-us [TS]

01:43:51   and in the problem has always had a lot they've always compared themselves in [TS]

01:43:55   justifying their their high price they've always said well if you compare [TS]

01:43:59   us to like a Mercedes S Class which is what we're comfortable to contest right [TS]

01:44:04   if you compare the interior quality to other like the set to a seven series and [TS]

01:44:09   has class or the amenities or the amenities you know the Lexus Scion Lexus [TS]

01:44:13   is like if you compare to any of the very high ends large sedans it doesn't [TS]

01:44:19   quite match at least it hasn't in the past maybe I haven't seen it yet but the [TS]

01:44:23   test level take that class off the line and a day [TS]

01:44:26   and so like so you can kind of start selling it is like in the same way the [TS]

01:44:31   you don't expect like you know and our DRS Porsche gt3 you know the interior is [TS]

01:44:37   gonna be like strip down and bear like that's part of the aesthetic of the car [TS]

01:44:41   like you're not in like in some ways Tessa kind of unintentionally has that [TS]

01:44:45   going for it like we don't intend to make a stripped-down always thought [TS]

01:44:47   maybe in the first model like the interior was like the patent was so then [TS]

01:44:51   the seating area just because they wanted to say boy and like this big [TS]

01:44:53   luxurious cushy seats like you have your car margo there were a lot and so if [TS]

01:44:57   you're trying to cut down and wait you're gonna give it a little bit [TS]

01:45:00   cheaper seats that's why I think the good news is there an option and I [TS]

01:45:02   wonder how much more they way than the other stuff but if you know if your [TS]

01:45:07   gonna go with that thing at least you have performance today still way the [TS]

01:45:11   time and change direction that well but like it does it does add that superflat [TS]

01:45:16   cornering attitude that feels weird and you know it's super fast and quiet and [TS]

01:45:21   actually a fun electric car to drive by all accounts I gotta drive 1 I'm tired [TS]

01:45:27   of guessing how much fun it is I think he will find it to be super heavy and [TS]

01:45:31   corner strangely flat and be really fast in a straight line that's it is very [TS]

01:45:35   likely that I'm gonna hit the lack of knobs and buttons have not driven one [TS]

01:45:39   but I have been driven in one and even just being a passenger I was just [TS]

01:45:42   immediately apparent like I did not like I went in expecting to be able to really [TS]

01:45:46   know didn't think about it whatever how flat is it connery like strangely so [TS]

01:45:52   startling without having you know stiff suspension where you feel every bump [TS]

01:45:55   because this humongous weight as a run the bottom of the bottom of the car and [TS]

01:46:01   then did I feel that the car felt heavy I can tell that as a passenger that I [TS]

01:46:05   just know it is no wonder how many people are actually listen to this call [TS]

01:46:10   is neutral at people can take it the whole show is neutral this is this is [TS]

01:46:14   mostly staying at yeah it's not our fault they first and yeah we had to do [TS]

01:46:20   this it was an accidental car podcast [TS]