0:00:00market you're totally right margo you're totally right Marco you're totally right
0:00:02where does Apple you score data John I know this question marks after all those
0:00:09bullet points in the people he called us and told us and i couldnt find those
0:00:15emails I think this is far from last week when I think marco was talking
0:00:21saying that he didn't know where Apple used card and it was in response to your
0:00:24data sync in particular the iCloud Core Data Sync that was a disaster
0:00:29yes not just plain old core data and this is in response to the idea that
0:00:33Apple what which APS Apple dog food and by the way we did someone email dog
0:00:38footing mean I sent him that we could be dealing with it it just means using your
0:00:42own stuff like if you're making an ABI in this specific case and you don't use
0:00:46that API yourself chances are we'll be that great because you won't know the
0:00:49pain of using it like we made an API for you go use it but we don't know what
0:00:52it's like you don't have to use it anyway the suggestions I think people
0:00:56sent us for Apple applications that use CoreData iCloud syncing are the trailers
0:01:01app on iOS and sinking for keyboard shortcuts between Mac and iOS was that
0:01:06the only reason we got sent that so once I saw yes yeah and what's funny so so
0:01:11the trailers nap you know find that's how much data is that actually syncing
0:01:16between devices and that's fine
0:01:19keyboard shortcuts think I've actually heard many people complaining of the
0:01:25shortcuts are not syncing so if that is using Core Data iCloud syncing that is
0:01:31really not a good recommendation for even if it's just too obscure apps to
0:01:36the kind of you know the exception that proves the rule is not something that
0:01:39underlies like their major apps unlike for example cloud kit which they're
0:01:43building major applications like photos and everything on top of words like it
0:01:46that doesn't work people are gonna notice whereas if the trailers are
0:01:49operating keyboard shortcuts Inc doesn't work maybe some piano but it's not like
0:01:52you know it's destroying their family photos when I was when was it was when
0:01:59iOS eat was in beta I believe I don't even think that I had upgraded any of my
0:02:07devices time to the beach at this point but my keyboard keyboard shortcuts was
0:02:12completely bored until I had everything on Iowa State yosemite and it was
0:02:18infuriating dunno if you if you notice about me gentlemen but I tend to use
0:02:22emoji occasionally and i have shortcuts for most of my frequently used emoji and
0:02:27i felt absolutely crippled without them it was a dark dark time I'm so sorry to
0:02:33hear anyway so we talked in inner episode 10 2012 ballots in interview
0:02:45with Andy minutiae that was in objective CIO and Hendrick wrote in and said man
0:02:49we should really talk about it so I guess we didn't really give it a fair
0:02:52time and I think one of one of you guys I guess John had written a few things
0:02:56that we should probably also bring up from that interview one thing and maybe
0:03:01we did talk about I'm vaguely remember talking about the thing but I
0:03:04remember this paragraph or did the highlighted bit talking about react but
0:03:09any used to work for Apple so what it was like when he was at a time when he
0:03:15was there is one of the complaint I have about my time at Apple's that because
0:03:18the culture doesn't value learning nobody reads nobody knows what's going
0:03:22on the broader community people didn't know about react at all
0:03:26react in that region that doesn't make me feel good because then it's like a
0:03:32bad idea that have about any big company the idea that Apple still with all these
0:03:37super smart people making amazing products but they're dead they're sort
0:03:40of insular that they're not like they're interested in what they're doing but not
0:03:44so much is that what's going on elsewhere I don't know just one person's
0:03:47complaint about you know obviously one person working the whole company they
0:03:51work in a small part of the company and there's there's obviously evidence that
0:03:54places where this is not the case I would hold swift as an example it's
0:03:58clear to design a swift heavily influenced by other languages all of
0:04:02which are you know being developed outside of Apple so it's obviously not
0:04:06as you know in a weird looking insular as this complaint makes it sound but the
0:04:12idea that could exist at all inside Apple's kind of disappointing to me
0:04:16yeah and and you know this is this is a fairly credible and relevant statement
0:04:21because it was on was on UI kit in I don't know exactly what capacity but I
0:04:26think a pretty high one it's so so he was a right where the discussion of
0:04:31react with the most relevant in UI kit that's exactly where this is important
0:04:35he was there and he is as far as I'm aware pretty well respected so you know
0:04:41i i wouldn't take this comment lightly in fact when I when I first read this I
0:04:46was I was really surprised that it didn't get more attention because to me
0:04:51it's it's kind of a bombshell to say that because the culture doesn't value
0:04:56learning nobody reads nobody knows what's going on in the broader community
0:05:00those are big statements to me especially from somebody like this you
0:05:03like I don't think he goes around like throwing around phrases like that
0:05:06lightly but he also made by somebody who left right and that person left probably
0:05:11because they weren't getting enough of you know there is new interesting novel
0:05:14things
0:05:15opening outside of apple an apple in some respects has to be more
0:05:18conservative because you know they're big they've got a big operation down
0:05:22there they can't just be chasing after the show anything else are the
0:05:25directions and as we've discussed and passions it seems like the technical
0:05:31resources that Apple are fairly overextended like it's very hard work
0:05:35their tight deadlines they're expected to do amazing things and put in long
0:05:39hours that doesn't leave much time left to be sort of reading blogs about
0:05:43interesting new technology to me and not influence and really liked it ends up
0:05:47personal interest you read about it but like how relevant is it because it's
0:05:51like what you just come in one day oh I have an idea guys let's not forget about
0:05:54you I can do something that incorporate some of the ideas that i've seen
0:05:57elsewhere by reading this programming block among other frameworks they don't
0:06:01go great great let's play let's go do that right that's not something that
0:06:07happens if you're just doing it on your own like the people who are super
0:06:11interesting that I would imagine leave Apple because you're not going to get to
0:06:14do that very few people are going to get to make that kind of radical decision
0:06:19and have it take place against with the example of it actually taking place
0:06:23because a very important person you know an idea influenced by lots of other
0:06:29languages and managed to get done even that was a fairly large effort over a
0:06:34long period of time and that's
0:06:36a situation that's probably not going to say and he really loved reacting the
0:06:41ideas inherited what could he do with those ideas that Apple
0:06:43than you know pursue something else where you can use used one of the things
0:06:50that's really tough about consulting is that if I do some sort of self-directed
0:06:57learning outside of work because goodness knows I'm not gonna have the
0:07:02time at work unless I'm quote unquote on the bench and not building a client and
0:07:07not earning money and generally a waste of space where do they actually use that
0:07:10phrase on the bench I do I think it's common phrase that's certainly something
0:07:15I've always said which is funny cause I'm not much of an athlete it comes from
0:07:17sports but whatever I don't maybe that's bothersome to most to me that's not as
0:07:22bad as circle back and keep me in the loop and all the other god-awful
0:07:26corporatism parking lot parking
0:07:28exactly anyway so if I do some self-directed learning let's say I don't
0:07:34know maybe I learn a little bit about note for whatever reason the likelihood
0:07:38that I'm going to be able to bring that back to the office in a direct way is
0:07:43virtually nonexistent now there's a lot of ways in which I can bring it back to
0:07:48the office in an indirect way for example a more robust knowledge of
0:07:52JavaScript is going to serve me well when I'm writing JavaScript for a web
0:07:57browser but the likelihood that I'm ever going to be asked to do a nude project
0:08:01for work is virtually nonexistent and that's a bummer and that sucks and it's
0:08:07not that we don't learn at work but it's hard it's hard when what you're learning
0:08:12is so far removed from what you're doing day today and I could make and I think
0:08:17john was making a pretty solid argument that react well yes it's all you I but
0:08:22the mechanisms are so far removed from what Apple doesn't UIKit how do you
0:08:26really applied that if you're a you I can engineer kind of so discontent and
0:08:32agitation like boy if you really turned on by these exciting developments that
0:08:37are happening elsewhere in the new go back to work and realize
0:08:40i cant like forget about it and direct application of knowledge like I could do
0:08:43I get the right now but like I can't even incorporate these ideas into my
0:08:46work to the degree that I think I should be able to get some ideas ideas are
0:08:51small I guess I can apply them to what I'm actually doing in this new UI
0:08:54framework but some ideas are large and it's like this idea of money make sense
0:08:57that the scale of like how is the API design how was what is the model of UI
0:09:03interaction like the model of reactive so much different than i love you i
0:09:06kidded such a big idea that you know it's like structure not like details
0:09:12that have you apply that if you're not going to say I'm gonna make some home
0:09:16who you know I paradigm and that's not something you get to do ya right do we
0:09:23want to do you a quick word from a friend and then we can talk about some
0:09:29car related stuff our first bunch of this week is our friends once again at
0:09:34cards against humanity now last last time they sponsored us they sent John it
0:09:40hoster to review instead of doing a typical a dream I actually have no ad
0:09:44copy for them they didn't give me any so this week they have sent John another
0:09:50toaster John what did you think of your current duster alright no no contact us
0:09:56when you want to know why they don't talk about toasters listen to the last
0:09:59episode this toasters the Panasonic NBG 110 p
0:10:05raining when I haven't listened to them in a long time so but my recollection is
0:10:14that something that I talked about on the show was the idea that I seem
0:10:19toasters that seemed to use different technology to to heat the food I was
0:10:25like boy this is great I bet these are gonna hit up faster in heat more evenly
0:10:28and pretty soon all toasters will be like this
0:10:31when I went to go buy toasters I looked around I didn't see any high-tech those
0:10:35who think maybe I was just imagining it was bad and the eighties and nineties I
0:10:39just forgot about it but all the toasters back to the same old you know
0:10:43designed that I'd seen in the past while this Panasonic coasters very close to
0:10:47the sort of futuristic you know advanced toasters that I was thinking of that I
0:10:51thought all toasters would be like it has a hearing on the bottom looks
0:10:55certain normal but it's got a heating element to getting out into the top one
0:10:58of which is near infrared and one of which is far infrared one of them
0:11:03someone in the chatroom tell me which is which I'm assuming it's the near gives
0:11:07off lots of visible light so it's almost like toaster has a big light inside it
0:11:11but that's actually part of the heating element anyway
0:11:13bottom line is this thing make toaster really fast it was like a minute and 30
0:11:18seconds faster than maybe expensive toaster nothing like double the speed
0:11:23right and was fairly even is only one element on the bottom 20 mins tops that
0:11:26would you put if you put four slices of toast there's not quite as good as
0:11:30having two elements eating them but wow is it definitely fast is that faster
0:11:34than a slot toaster at me because that's one of the advantages that the slot
0:11:37toaster people usually site is it goes faster maybe I do not want to time it
0:11:43against it is time to get my other sister but in other respects this
0:11:47toasters weird like my Panasonic which is sort of a kitchen appliance brand
0:11:53least not in this country that it's very vertical and operate the controls are
0:11:58below the door and set it to the side so it's like saving horizontal counter
0:12:01space the cord comes out of the front right corner of the toaster understand
0:12:06maybe it's meant to be tucked into something but I don't think you're
0:12:09supposed to put it you know
0:12:11walls close to it it's it's very confusing like it's got a power button
0:12:17on it
0:12:17power but not like a power button to turn on the 22 toast food but a power
0:12:22button as in now to toasters on now you can use the controls that are on the
0:12:25toaster like it and so you need to remember to turn it off or maybe you
0:12:32don't members are not our nose like a parasitic power loss if you don't turn
0:12:36the power off it's very strange and the controls in the front this is big on
0:12:39having presets
0:12:40where it's like instead of it does have control for temperature controls for
0:12:44time though but your digital and the temperature settings are like five or
0:12:47six little different settings that you can set and you know how to do each time
0:12:50but it also has buttons for various types of food and if I had to guess what
0:12:56these you know what kind of buttons you would have a toaster six of them I would
0:12:59not get the first one is toast fine I guess that one second one is waffle
0:13:03frozen waffle goes the third bunny is a role and it also says reheat I guess
0:13:10you're reading roles the fourth one is frozen pizza if the money is quick to
0:13:15reheat chicken leg and the last one is hash browns shows versions of all peeps
0:13:23chicken hash brown like these bugs confuse me I feel like if they were just
0:13:29gone and I you just had to use the normal controls that would be better
0:13:31anyway this is a very interesting post I think this was the sweet home pick for
0:13:35the best toaster it toast bread really fast it's kind of small you can't fit
0:13:40for full-size pieces of bread into it the trade does slide out when you open
0:13:44the door
0:13:45it has a lot of things to recommend it not bad but it's a weird it seems like
0:13:50it might be it do you think it would be a fair pic if you had like you do
0:13:55concerns about counter space usage it's very high though in like I think I'll
0:14:00give up like it's just about like half an inch to narrative to put two slices
0:14:05of bread side-by-side as frustrating I like you try to put it says a for a
0:14:08slice toaster but you gotta have some pretty darn small bread you cannot get
0:14:11four and it's frustrating when you get something that's a little bit because
0:14:16you can fit them in their alleged and smashing together in that that just
0:14:20doesn't feel comfortable so I wouldn't sacrifice I would I would give up that
0:14:25easily just be able to hit four slices of toast in it but can't argue with
0:14:29speed Superfest the bread slice count that as poster advertising the cantos it
0:14:34once it's kind of like being number of people that tense advertise they can
0:14:38sleep habits like you basically always have to like add to
0:14:45John how do you think this toaster ranks among the other now to that you have
0:14:49stuff it has a lot of things to recommend that over the previous poster
0:14:53but the previous poster is just so much more normal like it's slower but I think
0:14:58it did the previous one did a better job at four slices of bread and actually fit
0:15:01four slices it seemed even more evenly the controls are definitely more
0:15:06conventional I would probably pick this weird crazy fancy toaster over the
0:15:09previous one just because it has some advantages the other one is like just
0:15:14does everything ok I think I would I don't know it's tough choice I think it
0:15:19would probably just edging the bread in there and just be happy as opposed to
0:15:25the other one which is just kind of like you know the dials and all that business
0:15:29this doesn't have the dow problem you said that you only have like six
0:15:32settings set about once you find out which of the six settings works best for
0:15:34your bread you don't have to change it you just hit the power button it toast I
0:15:38think I'd go with the fancy one although I would never have complained about it
0:15:42all the time you unlike my pants does to reach the only complaint I have about it
0:15:47is a stupid spring in the door which apparently is only on my particular unit
0:15:50alright well thanks a lot two cards against humanity for sponsoring our show
0:15:56once again check them out cards against humanity
0:15:59all right that was I love this I hope it never stops
0:16:06sponsors do something but I hope so alright so so long time ago in a galaxy
0:16:11far far away
0:16:12that's a Star Wars reference John we started to a car themed podcast called
0:16:24neutral the end at first everyone was like John her back in there is another
0:16:30guy
0:16:31and then after a few episodes they were like yeah still talking but all of a
0:16:38sudden like a phoenix except not really at all
0:16:43neutrals kind of coming back from the dead because here it is on our Apple
0:16:48themes technology show their ease humongous talk these days that Apple
0:16:55might make a car I don't know about you but I'm feeling pretty darn smug right
0:17:00now how about you guys know I'm I'm scared that they're actually gonna do it
0:17:03I really I really don't think they should not know anything about whether
0:17:09any of you are credible I mean there's to me there so many reasons why this
0:17:13might be a terrible hit here but let's look at the source of your let's see
0:17:16where you know I have a bunch of links in there where who is saying that Apple
0:17:20is doing anything having to do with while nine to five mac.com access on the
0:17:26talk about who they hired hired head of mercedes-benz R&D I think he did like
0:17:30the Edit interactive like this you know the screen type stuff inside
0:17:34mercedes-benz and there are two things like whatever like you mean that we know
0:17:39they have car play that's not like a secret and you hired a guy who does the
0:17:43car place for mercedes-benz finance and I'm to buy back probably credible does
0:17:47probably happen but it doesn't make us freaked out too much but then the Wall
0:17:51Street Journal weighs in on the whole issue at all Street Journal post this
0:17:55big thing that is pretty unequivocal like a wall street journal is not a
0:17:59rumor side and their their record a track record for Apple is pretty good
0:18:04they tend to get a lot of these sort of but we assume are controlled leaks and
0:18:07stuff but this was like it was the title Apple gears up to challenge test Leno
0:18:12electric cars and it's a big long article and is talking all about that
0:18:16you know that that they're secretly working hundreds of employees is
0:18:19secretly working creating an Apple branded electric car
0:18:23and lots of important people are on the project and it started two years ago and
0:18:29they've got to engineers from Ford working on it and the person who's
0:18:33making it was given permission to create thousand-person team and to push
0:18:36employees are different parts of the company all the same things that
0:18:38applicant of you know like when the iPhone was made with forestall going
0:18:43around it and snagging all the good engineers you know the price of the
0:18:45company's and you wanna come work on our project or whatever
0:18:49an apple spokesman declined to comment so you know we're not saying this is a
0:18:54hundred percent slam dunk but suddenly you start to notice like I had not been
0:18:58taking any of this Apple make cars that series The at all because there are just
0:19:02so many reasons like Margaret said for Apple to hire all these car related
0:19:05people like they have car playback that explains almost any car hire I don't
0:19:10know about that I mean car place is really a very small move in the grand
0:19:15scheme of things like it's it's not a big initiatives far as we can tell so
0:19:19far from what we see in the outside and I I should clarify so I I did my app is
0:19:24compatible but nothing none of what I'm saying is informed by any inside
0:19:29knowledge of that I don't have any inside knowledge of that so sharply is
0:19:33it is a very small project that as far as I can tell is having a very slow
0:19:38start it's the use by very few cars its use by very few people it's usually very
0:19:44few apps and among the cars and people and apps that are used with car play it
0:19:51usually gets mixed reviews and I don't know and I love it the fault of the head
0:19:55units or the controls or the software I have no idea but it it seems like a
0:19:59pretty pretty tiny hobby project so I don't think they would be hiring
0:20:04allegedly hundreds of people making the giant secret research lab just to make
0:20:09like the next version of car play that day I don't think that's possible that's
0:20:13the information we can't confirm we can confirm things more or less like who was
0:20:16hired to work it out on those of the the confirmed facts of this case that you
0:20:21know they actually check on and like you know they hired the guy from our and our
0:20:28savings Rd they'd maybe they hired some guy from four to configure thats alright
0:20:32but you can't confirm hundreds of people being moved from division a division be
0:20:36you know me like that's that's all just kind of rumors and stuff so i'm saying
0:20:39is I called all of the news about a particular executive or a particular
0:20:43higher important if we heard if we hear about hiring somebody that probably an
0:20:47important person in those are in the ones and twos and carpet told explains
0:20:50any of those higher right when they said is if they really are hundreds or
0:20:56thousands of people often some off-site location working on a big project
0:21:00that doesn't seem like our place in its current form but it could be many other
0:21:03things like helping to make you know design the entire interior and interface
0:21:09of a card that they don't happen to make that would be a significant undertaking
0:21:12they require lots of people
0:21:15partner specific car maker by the way mixed in with all this are the stories
0:21:19from earlier months ago like Tesla hiring away all the Apple employees and
0:21:25going in both directions
0:21:28test was hired by Apple employees which I kinda makes sense to me when I read
0:21:33those stories it's like well yeah you wouldn't want to go work for testing and
0:21:36it's kind of a shame because what I merely popped into my mind is you know
0:21:40you on mosque walking through a garden with us I'm Apple engineer in saying to
0:21:43your cell sheriff owns interests your life with me and change the world
0:21:47Casey that's a reference by the way like who is this year is on the other foot
0:21:52now it's like well what's more exciting like revolutionising the world cars with
0:21:58electric cars or during with Apple's doing and maybe it's closer maybe the
0:22:02toss up a certain Apple vs Pepsi got I can imagine not being very difficult for
0:22:09test lead to higher way Apple employees who work are nuts because you don't get
0:22:12to work on cars it outright or do you and then that Apple tried to buy Tesla
0:22:19you know about the people they again failed the unsubstantiated some people
0:22:23predicting that Apple will buy data some people particularly did draw them but
0:22:27every time you read something like that it's like yeah yeah it's easy to write
0:22:30that story but there are so many things that we have had retroactivity confirmed
0:22:34about Apple trying to buy companies that do you know refuse them or
0:22:38considered buying companies and didn't like trying to drive by by Dropbox and
0:22:44are really buying Dropbox and they're down inside Palm Way back in the day
0:22:48because people can remember that like these are not the best thing about all
0:22:52these stories they're not entirely plausible these rumors they don't I
0:23:00don't think any of us hundred percent believe any of these because the
0:23:02evidence is not there is a part of that all of us get to the point where we're
0:23:05willing to entertain the thought right one of the reasons why I never thought
0:23:09Apple would make a TV set which have talked about a few times here before is
0:23:14that the TV set business is just kind of a messy business it like it it's a it's
0:23:20a very very big like you know commodity business supply chain business but not
0:23:25know where that that leads to a lot of profit usually unlike the phone business
0:23:29in the end their computer business and it's also not an item that is frequently
0:23:34updated and upgraded typically people buy TVs like every decade or whatever
0:23:39it's it's not like every couple years kinda like a phone or computer and
0:23:43there's not a lot of ways and Apple TV as a friend from whatever we know today
0:23:50TV world to be there's not really a lot of ways and Apple TV could really
0:23:54meaningfully differentiate itself from what the current little AppleTV puck box
0:23:59400 bucks does or or what
0:24:02another one could do so it seems like getting into the TV set business is not
0:24:08only unnecessary as they can get all the value they needed just making the box
0:24:12but also probably not wise is it just it's kind of just kind of a messy
0:24:17business well talk about a messy business about the car business and in
0:24:22the car business is not only extraordinarily expensive to get started
0:24:27and and to run and and of course no Apple has the cash if they wanted to
0:24:30build a car factory in design cars they could whether they should and whether
0:24:37they would is a very different story but certainly they have the money they could
0:24:42afford to set this up even though it is extremely expensive the big problem I
0:24:46see with it though is that you like like the television business
0:24:50the car business is just really kinda messy Apple doesn't really get into a
0:24:55lot of those like Messi businesses that often like cell phones are pretty
0:24:58missing while they were never a cell phone carrier for instance I know they
0:25:03tried to be that that was the first thing to say
0:25:05carriers can we do have fun without involving carriers and they pursued that
0:25:09right and they just determined no you can't be we need to carry right it's the
0:25:17type of I know it's not a business that they like to be in but there are
0:25:23businesses that have been messy Intel Apple entered them and sort of clarified
0:25:27when I look at this whole situation here I think to myself who is the apple of
0:25:34the car business if you want to I would argue BMW but I am hugely bias and I
0:25:43would say there isn't one i mean there there is a mean as just as car analogies
0:25:47are often used frequently misused in tech discussions and debates in this
0:25:54this massive Cornell you there is no equivalent there is no fair point and I
0:25:58think there's a hundred percent there's an Apple the car business thats Tesla
0:26:01the reason it's Tesla is not so much for anything like Oh cuz they have big
0:26:05tablet on that for their the Apple the carbons know that the Apple the car
0:26:08business because time for jan had to come out there re-imagined but the car
0:26:12could be and they took out all the crap in the car
0:26:15getting rid of hydraulic brakes is like there's nothing to go see a test
0:26:19tomorrow s there's no car there there is no car inside that car like you look
0:26:23around and it is a big thing in the back seat to go and what the hell is the car
0:26:30and into the interior is no like and the massive simplification of the car like
0:26:36it lol how many parts the car has a lot of these things like you know ten
0:26:39thousand coupons retired to make our whatever like the number of parts in in
0:26:44a test look compared to the number of parts and internal combustion engine
0:26:47alone let alone the entire car surrounding it is just night and day and
0:26:50so that's the type of simplification not the testament of electric car obviously
0:26:54you know there's another reason I think they like Apple but that type of
0:26:58simplification of like we're not just going to make a car we're going to make
0:27:04something that is simpler and better and you know has fewer parts and less things
0:27:09that can go wrong and different characteristics and think people are
0:27:12gonna tell us can't because of you know range problems or you know that it's not
0:27:17just make nice noises like internal combustion engine also things but we're
0:27:21going to do it anyway and it's like Apple's new Apple didn't invent the mp3
0:27:25player the mobile phone or anything else to do not about the electric car
0:27:28many people have been made before them and most of them have not been that
0:27:32great bike from the GME V-one way back in the day with acid batteries all up
0:27:37through all the different models that are hybrids and the things that have
0:27:40gone in between in Tesla is you know take the Apple approaches are leading
0:27:44from the top
0:27:45doing whatever it takes to make a good electric car which are not to cost like
0:27:50a hundred grand right but you know its first electric car that people actually
0:27:54say is a good car and that's totally an apple type of thing to do and the whole
0:27:58the way that it's made it is such a difference you know dealing with all the
0:28:02internal combustion everything right so that makes me think that if not
0:28:07impossible for a company to do an apple like think the cars Tesla shows how
0:28:12difficult that is because you have to deal with you know dealer organizations
0:28:15making so you can sell your car in your states and all the crazy government
0:28:18regulations and not guarantee that even though the government subsidies that
0:28:21test was going to come out on top and blah blah blah blah but I think test of
0:28:27the apple of cars and that's kind of bad for Apple making a car because it was
0:28:31already in half of cars with the hell that we're gonna do if they can't buy
0:28:33test to see here's the thing I know you're wrong that Tesla is the apple of
0:28:39cars and in the reason you're wrong is because a software update actually made
0:28:43the Tesla faster who police said that all the time
0:28:47with every release in the same hardware as the days I did that by starting off
0:28:54beings
0:28:55crappy leadership the couple seconds here just being silly oh I forgot the
0:29:02other rumor involved with the car thing that we talked about it a preview shows
0:29:05like you know minivan spotted with weird stuff on the roof
0:29:09reportedly Apple self-driving cars and we talked about that said that is very
0:29:12easily explained by Apple doing something like Street View which we
0:29:14think they need is Apple interested in self-driving cars that's a that's
0:29:19totally and Apple style simplification like you even need to drive the car but
0:29:23i think is not as interested in Google as Google is in that kind of basic
0:29:27research at this point
0:29:29yeah and and for whatever it's worth the Wall Street Journal article said
0:29:32specifically that a person familiar with the project said that self driving cars
0:29:36are not part of Apple's current plan and that's also I mean that's for the best
0:29:39mean how how well do you think Apple does with really complicated academic a
0:29:45I kind of problems that's that's not really their strong points and honestly
0:29:49I think at this point the Apple's ability to make a card no matter how
0:29:55many people they hire 900 engineers they put on it
0:29:58look how long it took tests led to make its first car with the help of
0:30:01essentially buying lotus's and strapping its batteries and engines like Apple has
0:30:06a leg up on them that they have a billion dollars and that that helps you
0:30:10along significantly but it takes a long time to build expertise and even if you
0:30:15can buy expertise takes a long time to buy expertise and get it all working
0:30:19together like again I think they could do it but it would be a long road and if
0:30:24Apple decided it wants to make a car because it believes cars can be
0:30:27simplified and can be made better or whatever the obvious movies 2 by Tesla
0:30:31because they've already done so much of that work and their philosophy of
0:30:37simplification and reimagining the car as something both better and less
0:30:43complex than it was before
0:30:46totally in line with the type of stuff that Apple does just that Apple
0:30:49so has there been a time in the past when Apple has taken a product that was
0:30:56basically fully formed in bought the company and made it their own I think
0:31:01what was it sound jam became iTunes is that right
0:31:03had worked out well that's sort of kind of what I'm talking about but if they
0:31:07bought Tesla don't you imagine they would keep the test lybrand like they
0:31:10would make it the Apple car like that in beats is probably the obvious answer my
0:31:15question right i mean they didn't even want to change the branded a headphone
0:31:18maker I would imagine they would keep the test the branch the so many things
0:31:23about this just made me really skeptical that that these reports are getting the
0:31:28right big picture like you know you can you can pick up bits and pieces of
0:31:32information here in there and you can say oh they hired this person who has a
0:31:36car background and it seemed that they're making a big lab and you know
0:31:40all the study you can put together bits and pieces but I really don't know if if
0:31:45the conclusion is well of course the carcass there are so many reasons why
0:31:49that is not an apple like business to enter and you know not to say Apple
0:31:54can't change and enter new businesses that's how progress is made but this
0:31:59just doesn't seem like like like the right business to enter a mean you know
0:32:04you mess this up people died like it it's very serious it's very cumbersome
0:32:10of a business to enter to to be in at all it is extremely hyper competitive
0:32:17hyper-competitive I would call it there are large barriers to entry which is
0:32:22kind of the opposite of hyper competitive like the fact that GM's
0:32:26still how competitive can it really be where'd you go to business the
0:32:31government put you back into business really that great new car student to
0:32:35kill people sometimes but I like it all work out in the end like
0:32:38it's their high barriers to entry but like the argument I seen a lot of places
0:32:43like the view from the gym executive that the car business like your kind of
0:32:49the TV business the car business is not like a higher profit businesses low
0:32:52margin it's difficult to people saying they whether it's about TVs about cars
0:32:56like them why and how you even in this business you just described your own
0:32:59business is pretty darn crappy right but you could describe the PC market the
0:33:03same way low margin it's a race to the bottom it's crappy somehow manages to
0:33:07make money there and the phone market in similar way that Apple's big thing kind
0:33:11of like Tesla this point is we find the most profitable part of the market but
0:33:15you just need the top and we make a lot of money in that part and maybe we
0:33:18expand down as we're able to but I don't think it's impossible for Apple to make
0:33:25margins on its theoretical car that would make him cry because Apple is
0:33:30better way simply the new internal combustion engine car already has the
0:33:36some of the expertise and contacts to do the battery stuff and you know they
0:33:40already buy a lot of lithium batteries yeah like there is definite synergies
0:33:45there but like I I don't entirely by the story in a bit like almost every
0:33:48organizing against it and and even the TV for knows where to get out CDs from
0:33:53that will construct something inside it like is it a low margin business AppleTV
0:33:56wouldn't be low margin you know me at like at Apple TV will not be like oh we
0:34:00make $2 every TV if Apple makes a car it will not be a low margin car I don't
0:34:04even know what the morning stars government subsidies being factored in
0:34:08but if Apple was making the Model S they can make it for less money
0:34:12just because you know you gotta have money to make money the deals you got
0:34:15out the contracts you know that Apple could make it for less money than making
0:34:21it so immediately the car has a higher margins
0:34:24so all the arguments against don't make our own is compelling to me the idea
0:34:28like that Apple is like a wider than Apple make boats while they make
0:34:34airplanes why don't they sell real estate like their you know their company
0:34:39uses technology to make people's lives better but a certain point when you
0:34:42going to like cars or constructing buildings or opening medical clinics
0:34:49around the country these are all things that Apple could do but it starts to
0:34:52drift off the path of what I picture as a business that Apple want to get into
0:34:59just because it involves technology everything involved technology this
0:35:02point so I'm I have from this one Wall Street Journal story maybe take it
0:35:05seriously but just convince me that I think you know what a few people have
0:35:11said they worried about Apple's focus you know if this is true and if they do
0:35:16not making a car like you know what the focus and I think when we look at this
0:35:20is you've heard I pretty sure steve is to say as I know Tim always says this
0:35:26which is that Apple tends to only or ideally the idea that maybe maybe not
0:35:32the actual Apple but the ideal Apple is a company that only enters markets where
0:35:37they think they can make a really meaningful difference that doesn't help
0:35:40you I does it cause don't you think they would say we can totally make a
0:35:43meaningful difference by changing the way everybody drives like this is
0:35:46totally a meaningful difference but from the product side lake we already have
0:35:51electric cars I know but they never really been done right and testing being
0:35:56choked to death by you know that the rest of the automotive industry like I
0:36:00kinda think of Tessalit way it's like a little fledging little bird then we all
0:36:04wanted to fly but getting beaten down
0:36:07and it's amazing that has done about the candle you know with government help and
0:36:11everything but like wouldn't we all feel terrible if test leaders didn't make it
0:36:15would be unfortunate like it was like we know that they've made a good car like
0:36:19the Model S is a good car care is a hundred grand a better be a good car but
0:36:23it is a good cars like the first good electric car like the roster didn't even
0:36:26apply that it has limitations on so far that's like wow so much fun did you know
0:36:30it's it's nice to drive is attractive it's got all the advantages even
0:36:35spectrometric parts really fun like they did it right and now you just keep you
0:36:41know we're gonna get cheaper one they gonna get $30,000 SUV like you want them
0:36:45to just spool up and eventually become a real car company failed that they can I
0:36:49go we didn't quite make it we're filing for bankruptcy or whatever and it won't
0:36:52be disappointed I think that shows that we want someone to come in and make a
0:36:57significant difference in the industry whether that has to involve Apple at all
0:37:01I don't know why I mean if if we don't want to keep the groaning about me but I
0:37:07don't think they're going to be pulling people off you I get to work on the car
0:37:11you know maybe kind of the interface but of course they will but not to the
0:37:15degree that like people got pulled over always tend to work like there are no
0:37:18Automotive Engineers that Apple pulled off their current project to work on the
0:37:21car automotive engineers are you know that the different skill set in
0:37:25mechanical engineering
0:37:26you know maybe the manufacturing people will be some crossover but it wouldn't
0:37:30be as big of a focus diversion as many other things that Apple does do so I am
0:37:35NOT groaning quite as much about losing focus on you know it's nice and hire new
0:37:41people are like I said that was by Tesla they come with a bunch of people are
0:37:44already know how to make cars but I was really getting at with the with the make
0:37:49a meaningful difference thing from the buyer's perspective like if you are
0:37:54buying an Apple car or let's say right now let's see your bio test look as bad
0:37:58that's the closest thing we have to what we think this might be the kind of thing
0:38:02we think this would be probably look at what the market today oh probably
0:38:06closest to it than any other vehicle may be a leaf but probably probably closer
0:38:11Tesla so if you think about that as a driver
0:38:16I mean none of us have electric cars so we don't really maybe this is not the
0:38:21right people to be speculating on this part but is there that much of a
0:38:26difference when you're driving the car when your own the car whether it's let
0:38:31your gas so much so that an apple car could be like radically different to own
0:38:36and operate and drive than any other car like i don't i don't think the
0:38:40differences are that big I think they are like other than the battery which is
0:38:45still a concern but Tesla has a built-in way to replacing everything that the
0:38:49maintenance the maintenance concerns and costs and the number of things that can
0:38:53go wrong
0:38:54like this just less stuff in the damn car's electric motors and like when the
0:38:57brakes are electric to ya gotta replace brake pads for like there's no fluids
0:39:01there is no like you know gonna hydraulic system is just there's no oil
0:39:06no gaskets is just so much stuff that you have to deal with car maintenance
0:39:10goes away and so you know I just think that is that's a different experience of
0:39:16driving a car but but what can apple bring to that that test and Nissan and
0:39:21everybody else can't I mean that's why there was just a test like but that's
0:39:27the problem but you know so what can I bring to the company's cantwell what
0:39:31they can bring to it is assured
0:39:33future for testing if they buy it right because if you are worried about Tesla
0:39:39if they're not going to make it if they can't make you know $100,000 cars are
0:39:42fun but they can't feel the $30,000 mother never going to be a player in the
0:39:45industry is you just have to come down in price a little bit you know any
0:39:49significant number of cars at Tesla can't get that done and its own Apple
0:39:54can make sure that that's that's a pretty weak argument that and obviously
0:39:59they would make they would make the UI in the interface inside much better than
0:40:02it is now hopefully I mean there are areas for simplification in the interior
0:40:06car that you would hope I mean maybe not today's appt only lost faith in their
0:40:10ability to make these interfaces but
0:40:12the apple of old you would imagine could simplify the interior of the car in the
0:40:16same whether the iPad somebody music player and the iPhone simplified phone
0:40:20interface
0:40:21again maybe it s already did that with my putting a big I bet on the dashboard
0:40:24but I don't like I don't think I'll be able to bring to bring as much to this
0:40:29as they brought to obviously as the phones or anything like that but he's
0:40:34out the questionnaire asking themselves like you know test looks like they've
0:40:38done a lot of the work so we shouldn't even bother maybe I don't know I keep
0:40:42coming back to what's in it for Apple and I think we've been dancing around
0:40:46that question you know this entire discussion and what is it that that
0:40:50doing a car would would serve for Apple now maybe would keep your engineers
0:40:57entertained we've talked on and off about how the worst reason why not say
0:41:02it's good reason but engineers designers entertained maybe whatever the case may
0:41:07be I mean we've talked about talent retention here and there over the years
0:41:09and you know that would theoretically retain talent but of course I'm also
0:41:13assuming that every nerd's also car not mad could not be further from the truth
0:41:18the only other thing I can think of is what if there's some sort of technology
0:41:22that that Apple has invented or figured out how to leverage in such a way that
0:41:27it lends itself to a vehicle rather than a piece of electronics what I'm thinking
0:41:33of is the click wheel made the iPod in many ways made the iPod the iPod still
0:41:39shelling came up with that
0:41:40click steering exactly and different that I cried so give give me an example
0:41:46technology hypothetical that you can imagine this being the case so so to
0:41:49finish my thought just very quickly in a multi-touch yet wasn't near but it was
0:41:52leveraged differently and and there are other examples I don't think I can think
0:41:56of off the top of my head but what if they had some crazy new battery
0:42:00technology and the reason it's not an iOS devices right now or or MacBooks
0:42:05right now is because it's just too freakin big deal maybe these batteries
0:42:09are hugely hugely hugely efficient they can charge in 12 seconds but but
0:42:15unfortunately they're just freakin massive and so the only thing that this
0:42:20is really good for is the electric vehicle
0:42:23granted this all hugely hypothetical but in that case maybe they would have
0:42:29something to contribute and that seems to me to be the kind of thing that that
0:42:34would make apple say you know maybe we should give the shot some sort of either
0:42:39different and interesting application of an existing technology or even better
0:42:43some sort of brand new technology that for whatever reason they just cant
0:42:48shoehorned into a iPad or an iPhone or MacBook Air MacBook Pro or whatever it
0:42:54again mister fusion argue that are a flux capacitor yeah yeah yeah but that's
0:42:59that's perhaps the least a polite thing that could possibly think of like Google
0:43:05does try to do basic research and even they don't do this type of thing there
0:43:08is no secret battery breakthrough technology that Apple has a bigger
0:43:12batteries like anyone's gonna come up with that it's going to be a university
0:43:16theoretical physicist like its first what's going to happen is the basic
0:43:21research is gonna say that something is potentially possible and then a bunch of
0:43:25people are going to try to do it in the first person to pull it off is probably
0:43:28not going to be like apple just doesn't do that kind of basic research that's
0:43:31just not i mean and I don't think that's going to change out the company is not
0:43:34the way they work like this a Google Adsense them in basic are indeed I like
0:43:39some some big multiple and Google is not compared to like you know the real basic
0:43:44research going on in the field of science and engineering
0:43:48Google self-driving cars are you know not a drop in the bucket compared to
0:43:53people who are trying to spending like just years and years working on whatever
0:43:55carbon nanotubes battery technology that's going to come and when it's
0:44:01always grab the stuff that's just it at the edge of what's possible and they
0:44:05apply their engineering and manufacturing expertise to bring it to
0:44:07existence but I don't think
0:44:09that Apple has anything like that for batteries at like four something else
0:44:12maybe they have a really good idea about the interface of a car but there are a
0:44:17lot of limitations on the interface of a car because people are kind of used to
0:44:20it isn't as government regulations saying how it has to be hosted one thing
0:44:24I want Apple making the interface to my car because there is a mean for many of
0:44:30the same reasons you know we discussed earlier on a neutral which nobody
0:44:33listened to we discussed our feelings on touchscreens vs knobs and buttons versus
0:44:38a combination of the two and I think we all came down is we actually don't like
0:44:44the Tesla approach of everything on the touchscreen like I I like knobs and
0:44:50buttons for all the controls that are necessary in my car for basic operations
0:44:54things like the ventilation controls and you know I like anything that's on the
0:44:58center console that's not like the navigation screen I want knobs and
0:45:02buttons for anything evolution screen that i dont wanna touch screen because
0:45:05of the ones I've seen and used have been terrible I want like like the wheel at
0:45:10the eye Dr we all have a great day out he has a somewhat similar one Toyota
0:45:15Lexus have a really weird terrible pointing stick system that's just awful
0:45:19and i've seen many others
0:45:21hideous systems rather brands but for the most part I want knobs and buttons
0:45:26because what you need in a car for both safety especially number one safety and
0:45:33also for just reduced annoyance you need a button to work every time to respond
0:45:40within the same time every time you don't because what you don't need to be
0:45:44doing in a car when you shouldn't be doing in a car is having to check up on
0:45:48the state of what you think you just did to make sure it took or two to reissue
0:45:54of command of a card misinterpreted and if you look at Apple's current software
0:45:59designs and systems and and styles and just the standards by which they hold
0:46:03themselves and in reality what we get from them in practice it's not that
0:46:07solid you know there are parts of it that are like the Colonels pretty good
0:46:10these days but you know the UI's you know all the other stuff sitting on the
0:46:15hob the services and everything that these these are not like this requires a
0:46:21very different degree of reliability than what consumer software for
0:46:26computers and tablets and phones really requires cars like the things in cars
0:46:30need to work every time and if they miss just a little bit if it's just a little
0:46:36bit bulkier little bit slow or a little bit inconsistent it's really annoying
0:46:40potentially very unsafe and so I don't think I would want Apple making that
0:46:44kind of software my car at least as we know them today and maybe in the future
0:46:48it'll be very worried if they did it today
0:46:51watches reassuring in this regard though because you're talking about is like
0:46:55what they did with the phone as they made it all screen because they realized
0:46:58that the buns were limiting and really the number of interesting things you can
0:47:02do with the phone was just all screen just expanded greatly because the
0:47:05general purpose computing device whereas on the watch they made a slightly
0:47:08different decision yet all screen because they expect similar type of
0:47:11things but the little digital grounding in the button on the side
0:47:15acknowledge that in this application it's not just about all I can make the
0:47:19general purpose computing devices so darn small so other aspects like quick
0:47:24access and reliable reliable use of you know like one might just make your
0:47:28pension scheme with a different context here they're not afraid afraid to make
0:47:30it you know that the highlight feature of their watches interface to be a
0:47:34novice angeli I would imagine if Apple had to take on a car like what you're
0:47:39what you're envisioning is like boys that permitted car would look like to
0:47:42join iPad into the death penalty would did I would hope that if Apple did a car
0:47:47they would recognize that this context is also different than the mobile phone
0:47:50context and that what's appropriate animal is fun making use the giant
0:47:54screen would also not be appropriate here so it would have nothing to have a
0:47:59digital crown but they would have knobs and buttons and stuff on it and they
0:48:03would not be entirely unexpected big screen to be featured heavily but I
0:48:06would not be surprised if an Apple design car interior had more knobs and
0:48:10buttons right so let's put this in the parking lot
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0:50:48assume for the sake of conversation the car play doesn't exist it basically
0:50:52doesn't heyo
0:50:55the two of us it's hasn't gone very far maybe it will in the future but right
0:51:00now it really has not gone very far
0:51:02yeah and that's a fair point so if we take it that car play either doesn't
0:51:06exist or barely exists wouldn't it make the most sense that all of these hires
0:51:12in all of this activity is probably about making what we call our plate
0:51:18today I mean that just seems the most obvious to me the thought of actually
0:51:20constructing a an automobile seems kind of crazy to me
0:51:26partnering like if I was interested in cars partnering with a car manufactured
0:51:31to do what we talked about back in neutrals like these carmakers all want
0:51:35to do it themselves and I feel like we have our internal design group that does
0:51:39all are you know for interiors with a new MyFord Touch whatever you know like
0:51:42they want to do it themselves as a point of pride but they're terrible at it
0:51:46because they don't have much experience cars you cannot be about software and
0:51:49then seemingly overnight night car because came back over first the engines
0:51:53were about software but I was like that's not visible to the user interface
0:51:5620 computers in them baby seemed to make that transition ok when it came to make
0:52:02you know human-computer interfaces inside the cars they have not done well
0:52:07and they haven't been able to attract that actually you so where is looking
0:52:09like you could just bring someone from the outside the Apple do your interior
0:52:13but no car maker once lets you know computer company come in design that
0:52:17they want you know it's like BMW or whatever it's a good point of pride we
0:52:21make the interiors and they just keep trying to refine them and they get
0:52:23better at them but I imagine if your Apple and all the people at Apple the
0:52:29Big Ten's executives who make the decisions
0:52:32drive super expensive cars and kind of like how all the executives had super
0:52:35expensive cell phones the stall thought they were all crap I bet a lot of those
0:52:39executives are similar tastes drive to work and they're under $200,000 cars and
0:52:43say boy the interior interfaces cars terrible and Mike this is the best car
0:52:47you can buy like
0:52:48now because it's a cheap car like I'm rich I have a lot of money I still have
0:52:53to use a crappy cell phone and deal with my crappy TV set and drive a car that I
0:52:59love everything about it except for the user interface in the interior right and
0:53:02so the channeling that frustration would be like you know can't we can we work
0:53:09with BMW Mercedes Porsche Honda how anybody would anybody let us like work
0:53:13with them at the level we want to work with them and say we own the interior
0:53:17user interface your car you do the engine you do the car you do the
0:53:20structure you do the suspension you do everything else but we own how you doin
0:53:23the windshield wipers on how you just the radio you call someone a cell phone
0:53:26interview car like let us do all that for you and so far no car if Apple has
0:53:32made those overtures no car manufacturers take them up on the deal
0:53:35and again I don't blame them because if I was a car maker I be like a few
0:53:38basically doing is cutting us out the needs and saying you're have a car maker
0:53:42now where the important you know
0:53:44clear that will come in and become the most valuable differentiator of our car
0:53:48line really getting us to a mere manufacturer of a drive train and bodies
0:53:52nobody wants to do that right but I can imagine Apple wanting to do that and
0:53:57maybe that's plan a and Plan B is just by Tesla implant see is what you make
0:54:02your own damn car and that's that's held an extrapolation of the order of events
0:54:07and I don't know what kind of gas there are between plan ab&c but plan a sounds
0:54:10plausible that Apple would want to be more involved in the interior of a car
0:54:15and car players like the weakest most piddling little attempt to get Apple
0:54:20anything inside a car yet that's exactly what I was driving at and I come back to
0:54:26maybe you know when we started this conversation one of you think John had
0:54:30asked well who is the apple of cars and maybe the better question is who's the
0:54:36AT&T who is the most beleaguered who is the most desperate who is the most
0:54:41willing to let Apple just sauntering Cingular actually around sorry that's
0:54:46very true I do you mean Cingular so who is the most desperately in most willing
0:54:51to let Apple you know just waltz in and take over the show
0:54:56and and I don't know who that he's today for a male know it everyone's already
0:55:03owned by somebody else
0:55:04beleaguered brand you know Tata field Rd bob dole's his left eye but you see my
0:55:10point right I mean who is most willing to do that I think Saab before they
0:55:15disappear Kasab is dead now right
0:55:18Jim bought them right and and and then spun them off at otter just let them die
0:55:22one of the other but I don't like Saturn
0:55:25they're gone to what kind of shape is Nissan in I thought they were doing well
0:55:31Mitsubishi was hurting last I heard yet Mitsubishi but like but they don't offer
0:55:36good card travel to get stuff inside like you know the cars are much more
0:55:41important part of of the entire project in the cell network was for the iPhone
0:55:45arguably even when they pick like the bad cell network rate and also the phone
0:55:50always had sort of like if we do well obviously will expand our time we won't
0:55:54be AT&T Cingular only for every successful whereas if you're successful
0:55:58the car ready think every car companies so yeah totally I'll be coming into our
0:56:02like it's not I don't see a path toward that I can just give you do something
0:56:07like our place where you try to get buy-in from this could still work like
0:56:11you're not only interior but every interior has a place where you can put
0:56:15your crap and some limited integration of course sandra is trying to do the
0:56:18same thing like I think be the prospects for car player similar for the prospects
0:56:24of you buy your TV from someone else and let us control some part of the
0:56:29interface and in practice that kinda sorta works like that the puck device
0:56:33category like well we don't make your TV we don't control the interface as you
0:56:37bring up to adjust the picture controls we don't control any of that we don't
0:56:41control your remote but you can have this box on your inputs and use our own
0:56:45lower mode and then we sort of take over your TV not great but it works and other
0:56:50people try to do so that's car played at the Android car thing or whatever but
0:56:54that's not gonna get us to like that's not gonna resolve our dissatisfaction in
0:56:58the same way that doesn't make us all of our TVs because at 7 a.m.
0:57:02well and also it's it's not a great metaphor because like TVs are kinda just
0:57:06need to be taken over where is caught like if you want to properly integrated
0:57:11to a car system and take over the UI you need to be integrated into a lot more
0:57:15it's a lot more complicated than just like oh there's a giant screen take it
0:57:18over like most cars have multiple displays and gauges and different
0:57:24control services all over the place and all sorted everything to get into really
0:57:27wanted to take it over and over time it's only going to get more complicated
0:57:31like look at what our fancy cars have we have the heads-up displays we have
0:57:35cameras in in the mirror to look at stuff on the road you got centers all
0:57:39around the car you got the mint navigation screen media controls you got
0:57:43navigation itself all these like the mobile office BS all these different
0:57:47things like that and then the number of systems in cars that are that are gonna
0:57:52be integrated into everyday models is gonna keep going up over time as you see
0:57:57get cheaper so the model of car players doing now is always going to be very
0:58:06limited and it is really if anything gonna keep being relegated to a smaller
0:58:11and smaller proportion of the car's overall smarts and displays but like
0:58:15television the car interior is under attack from usurpers from the outside
0:58:20like automatic as an example like a sponsor the podcast let's use everything
0:58:25into a standard part in your car and give it a bunch of features that should
0:58:28have had an already if car manufacturers knew what they were doing but they don't
0:58:31say when we all used to have GPS is stuck inside our cars when did you know
0:58:35when it wasn't on our phones and it wasn't built into the cars that was an
0:58:39attack from the outside hey carmakers know what the hell they were doing every
0:58:42car has GPS built-in adults about its government thing and suction cup of tea
0:58:45or dashboard right everyone connecting iPod CD stereo systems long for
0:58:50carmakers got a clue like there is a constant assault from outside world of
0:58:54the fast-moving technology sector to do things that sometimes it's just kind of
0:58:59like taking advantage of your car hardware sometimes is entirely separate
0:59:03system like the GPS but sometimes like automatic it's like
0:59:06you know help you find your car in the parking lot why can't you do not already
0:59:09carmakers have no idea what they're doing by this thing and we will help you
0:59:12do it right and I don't know that's not gonna win like they're going to
0:59:16overwhelm from the outside because they can't and you totally right like
0:59:19attaching a bunch of these things like it's boris then attaching parks or do
0:59:23you like the experience should be entirely integrated should know how fast
0:59:26your car is going where you're probably going to watch pressures in the tires
0:59:30with the current GeForce being pulled this whether it's ok to interrupt you
0:59:33but the call because it knows how you like total integration like that's the
0:59:37No yes what could Apple add to the car experience if this is maybe the
0:59:42idealized that they could add an interface that takes into account all
0:59:45those things in a way no car maker has and do it all without relying on a bunch
0:59:50of other stuff that you stick inside the car
0:59:53yeah I think you guys are both right the only thing that makes me doubt you is
0:59:59what if they were to enter into a car into work with a car manufacturer that
1:00:06already has a bus like I think Volkswagen for example and I'm not
1:00:10talking buses in what the Brits would call coach I'm saying service Boston so
1:00:15as an example I think that volkswagen has some hilariously named in mildly
1:00:21inappropriate service boss that all of their different components talk to you
1:00:27and I think BMW does the same thing actually in presumably most modern car
1:00:31manufacturers deal so maybe this isn't really narrow it down at all but like my
1:00:36friend brian has who had a able to ignore 32 I remember that he had done
1:00:42something I don't recall the specifics but he had done something with the
1:00:46Volkswagen can buses I believe it's called think about doctors in the chat
1:00:49we are seeing my Canada gauge or something like that whatever he did he
1:00:54did something that was possible because basically all of the cars different
1:00:59computers are talking to each other more common bus and so if that were the case
1:01:03since a Volkswagen BMW or something like that then maybe they could do something
1:01:08more than just the fairly rudimentary car play implementation they have now
1:01:13maybe they could add cages not not say that gauges are really be all end all
1:01:16but just as simple example
1:01:18something like that is possible without presumably too much work if they can
1:01:22just get their selves
1:01:23get themselves onto the campus yet but as soon as anyone does that as soon as a
1:01:28proposal that they're gonna just lock it down you know it was like jon said like
1:01:31the car manufacturers can I don't want someone else to come take over their
1:01:37systems and plug into their systems like they want to control the whole thing
1:01:40from lots of good reasons like it for themselves for their businesses for
1:01:44safety but there are so many reasons why they're not gonna let anyone else just
1:01:48plug into their bus and drive all over it
1:01:51microsoft did that with Ford right when they the like the Ford mytouch interior
1:01:56thing like Microsoft partner in with them it was a two desperate companies I
1:01:59mean the whole ideas like that it's almost as if it was 24 advantage for
1:02:06that interface enough work to do because like I said if the reason people are
1:02:10buying your cars because everybody knows that the car with the awesome Apple
1:02:13interfacing like you gotta check like if that becomes the value proposition of
1:02:17your car if it is the differentiator you don't like people are buying your car
1:02:22not because of something you did you are giving some portion of value and
1:02:26attractiveness and hearing your product and you're giving the most important
1:02:29portion of that Apple like it's kind of like that you know the cell network you
1:02:33know we want an iPhone or networking turns out that people don't care what
1:02:37network is that they'll get AT&T if it means they have the iPhone the iPhone
1:02:40becomes the most important thing is not gonna make you love AT&T know it's gonna
1:02:46make you believe the iPhone that is the differentiator and that's where the
1:02:49value is not just want you to be a dumb pipe into your said well but that's
1:02:52exactly what for did with the Myford think whatever was that which was
1:02:57Microsoft behind the scenes and they they made it clear that it was Microsoft
1:03:00was a selling point right but it wasn't that good and no one was buying forward
1:03:06because of a sudden people brought forward because everyone knew that for
1:03:10the cars with the great interfaces that like they've never had that reputation
1:03:13that was that was never the value proposition of a Ford and if it had
1:03:17become one
1:03:18feel like I was going to buy before but now everybody tells me like the same
1:03:22reason like I'm not into Apple but everyone tells me i phone is an awesome
1:03:25cell phones I'm interested in going to check it out right I guess but I mean to
1:03:30take it on its flip side I feel like I've heard many times that say cadillacs
1:03:35navigation interface is just atrociously bad we talked a long time especially
1:03:40Marco about how awful the Lexus interfaces so yeah maybe you don't want
1:03:43to be a selling point but you certainly don't want to be a liability either yeah
1:03:47you're kind of right there was no Microsoft desperation before it is
1:03:50actually one of the American car company that is not constantly making terrible
1:03:54cars and being bailed out by the government in like you know if you had
1:03:57to pick what is what is the best American carmaker makes for a pretty
1:04:02strong case to be major forward in terms of both financial health of the company
1:04:05and that the quality of the vehicles they pay out there's spot exceptions you
1:04:09can see you can find exceptional cars and you know the other makers as well
1:04:13but Ford overall was not the most desperate of all companies I find a
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1:07:18here go anywhere right anything else on cars one more thing I think
1:07:23we have more than one with one of our major thing to bring this back down to
1:07:28earth now i three weeks of follow-up to buy these let's all now assume that
1:07:34Apple is not going to make it but let's assume that these rumors about some
1:07:38large project at Apple involving cars and some way that is not Street View and
1:07:44that is not merely an extension of existing car plagues it's because if it
1:07:47this Wall Street Journal article I say get a bunch of things wrong and I guess
1:07:51is wrong about what these people are doing but there really is a large number
1:07:54of people
1:07:55Apple's gearing up and I like it like Barbara said this seems crazy these
1:07:59people all be working on car plate so they're not making your car and it is
1:08:02not about Street View and it is not currently but it is correlated with the
1:08:07hell is it and honestly I think East Street View style project from the
1:08:12little mini vans that we've already seen pictures of that I don't know if we
1:08:16definitely know that they're from Apple I think that's kind of vague as to what
1:08:18the connection is but assume they are I think that would be enough to have a big
1:08:24staff and a big lab like that might be the reason that might be all this is
1:08:29because you know quote all this is is actually a place to do a street you kind
1:08:34of thing is a huge project but why would that be in a big building
1:08:38well it's a lot of data a lot of software right a lot of a lot of data to
1:08:42manage and people to manage and a fleet of vehicles to manage I mean that's a
1:08:46that's a big job there's a reason why why only Google has that feature right
1:08:51now I don't think anybody else introduce people to fly over there are not nearly
1:08:55as good I don't think anyone else did Street View accept them right not to my
1:09:00knowledge it's all the rumors like a thousand-person team like they're doing
1:09:03Street View which I probably think they are I would imagine this effort to be
1:09:06more distributed by necessarily more distributed to all the cars of the view
1:09:10from california coming back to California
1:09:12well is Apple it like all the AOL traffic going through Virginia
1:09:18it just doesn't seem to like I believe the street view thing a hundred percent
1:09:22and I suppose that could take maybe a hundred people but not a thousand
1:09:27and i dont not sure I would hire anyone from a car company to lead that because
1:09:31that's more of a I would hire someone from like a mapping company or someone
1:09:35who you know their exact positions they get the keyhole or whatever company they
1:09:40gave them their map data like it just doesn't fit with this rumor that with
1:09:45you know I guess it depends on how much of the Wall Street Journal article you
1:09:49think they got correction I'm willing to believe that they got everything correct
1:09:51except what these people are doing I'm going to believe that day that the
1:09:54number of people is right that they're sort of general location is right that
1:09:58the people who are leaving them are correctly identified but they just are
1:10:03guessing wrong about what people are doing is they're actually making car
1:10:06they're doing something and I'm not sure that something as I mean the reality is
1:10:11like if you if you take the collection of facts are true I think making the car
1:10:17is the most likely conclusion to draw from that it's not what I wanted to be
1:10:22doing it's not what I think they should be doing as from today I mean this could
1:10:27also you know it if you see it you said people in 2004 Chevy make a phone you
1:10:33hear from a lot of people who would say yes but a lot of people who is a well
1:10:36maybe they should really focus on the computers you know so we don't know I
1:10:41don't know by saying I don't think we should really do this maybe they will
1:10:46blow us away I don't think it's very likely just because I think they can
1:10:51make our the design very well but I think about like you know if if you look
1:10:57at like TVs and why again I dunno I said earlier but if you look at why didn't
1:11:02make a TV I think one of the reasons they don't make a TV is that TV's really
1:11:06have very little interface but the TV itself like the box of the plug into it
1:11:12have an interface the TV itself has very little interference really you're
1:11:17basically making tiny just been sometimes
1:11:20value maybe and then picking inputs but that's basically what you're doing
1:11:24everything else now you know your plug in a box and do you think there's ITV's
1:11:28like Apple could not bring a whole lot to that because most of the TV does Adam
1:11:34screen that you turn on and off and pick inputs from the day overtone the whole
1:11:37screen it's like a welcome to bring to the fore
1:11:39it's basically just a big screen they own everything on screen it defines the
1:11:42experience but they already have that with the box anyway so compare that to
1:11:47the car
1:11:48actual car usage like getting out earlier know simply how much an apple
1:11:54bring to dislike as you're using your car
1:11:58what what parts of what you're doing in your car when you're actually owning and
1:12:02driving a car what parts of that process and the experience are you heavily
1:12:08interacting with something where interface quality isn't that important I
1:12:11think one of the reasons why cars have such mediocre interfaces so often is
1:12:16because it does it really matter that much because for the most part you're
1:12:20barely ever looking at the controls I hope and you're not doing that much
1:12:24there's like 12 buttons like they're doing a massive amount of things you're
1:12:29not running reform software for plenty of good reasons that probably won't
1:12:33change there's not that much going on there and and many of these advances
1:12:39like probably shouldn't happen for safety reasons why I really doubt what
1:12:45value Apple could realistically bring to this that would make it worth all this
1:12:50trouble all this has all the risk of the expense of the loss of focus I don't
1:12:54like what problem are re- Lee desperate for an apple cart to solve and and all
1:13:03of us agree that cars often have you know pretty pretty mediocre interfaces
1:13:08but all the still drive these cars are mediocre face it we all chose to buy the
1:13:13ones we bought for different reasons really so not only do I think Apple
1:13:18could make a huge difference here but I'm also skeptical as to whether they
1:13:22would succeed much in the market because like people by car so many different
1:13:26reasons beyond the things Apple's good at well I mean Apple's good fashion to
1:13:32buy cars for those reasons but I think your view of what Apple can bring to
1:13:35this is too narrow like it's not just about the user interface like bringing
1:13:38the things that Aeschylus essentially already brought to it only bring it to
1:13:41more people that the ownership and use experience of an electric car is I think
1:13:46significantly different from
1:13:47an internal combustion engine car and it also different from a hybrid and all the
1:13:51parts in the car that don't necessarily have to do with driving getting in and
1:13:55out of it like the ownership experience the maintenance experience like what the
1:13:59car looks like how big it can be where can fit like this
1:14:02the places you can innovate with an electric car where you can innovate with
1:14:06internal combustion engines you have different constraints and Tesla's doing
1:14:08that now and that that is the that's what I call them the apple of cars like
1:14:12that is what they're bringing it to it and yes also hopefully making the
1:14:15interior of nature interfacing having integration with your iPhone having you
1:14:18know like all things you would expect them to do but I think it's the sort of
1:14:23total ownership experience that that Apple would be bring to it but I keep
1:14:29going back to what Apple is making the car you said if this rumor is true
1:14:34mostly the most likely thing like you do you think they're right about everything
1:14:36is making a car I have to think like thousand-person seems too small and I
1:14:43would think they would have to be something as article about them hiring
1:14:45Automotive Engineers carmakers like watching people from different parts of
1:14:49the organization like if I just look at these facts what it looks like they're
1:14:53doing if I say everything is bolstered Journal article is correct is there
1:14:57working on something having to do with interfaces inside cars it does not look
1:15:00to me like they're making a car because this you know if everything is true I
1:15:06would think you should be hiring way way way way way more mechanical engineers
1:15:10Automotive Engineers and stuff like that and be much less concerned about like
1:15:15watching people from the rest of the organization to do like software and
1:15:18just hiring like it just it just seems like this again unless you're buying
1:15:22test laboratory comes to those people at the this rumor the most likely thing
1:15:28that everything was insurance articles like out there doing something much more
1:15:31significant having to do with the interior cars that's what it looks like
1:15:34me
1:15:35i think im bored by that too was speaking a boring what if it's something
1:15:41even more boring than anything we've discussed like what if they're just
1:15:44using their their knowledge of system-on-a-chip and building at a NEC
1:15:51you or what if they're building a custom ECU to work with their custom head unit
1:15:55two vertically integrated of the business attorneys all the electronics
1:16:01and software in a car but it could be any hard candy GM's can be four it
1:16:04snowed could be better Bentley who cares and it's a very boring answer which is
1:16:09why I don't think it's really Apple style but it's a possibility they've
1:16:12gotten pretty good at chip design yeah but like I was going to buy it like it
1:16:16don't think they wanna be a parts vendor for carmakers like that said to lose
1:16:20your business like anything anything where you think and Apple then to this
1:16:24product or service or technology to all the car makers that is kind of the same
1:16:28reason they can to make a TV and Apple technology work with every cable company
1:16:34and all the TV like the industry does not want that is not liable to come in
1:16:38and do what they did the music industry and I'm not going to do that to my
1:16:46industry right and they basically did to the cell phone industry to like it was
1:16:49all about they did the music industry and like damn now Apple has way more
1:16:52power to every one of them to how to begin the situation and then it was like
1:16:57the video companies you know TV movies like were not going to let out will do
1:17:00what they did to the music companies and they were super resistant and it helped
1:17:04competitors have areas like that cough we learned our lesson
1:17:07the people who didn't learn that lesson for the cell phone companies they
1:17:10weren't paying enough attention like you helped build the record companies yet
1:17:13the movies did you scare them like they were you thinking about themselves and I
1:17:17became did the same thing actually like how did this happen
1:17:21the car makers I would hope would let that if only because of pride and
1:17:27stubbornness which is it seems to be very strong in the car business because
1:17:31there are so few car companies in because so many like long story
1:17:34traditions having to do with families and everything that they do not want an
1:17:38outsider coming in and like everybody's got a different users agree that and and
1:17:45signal the known anybody coming in tone their business but I don't like it seems
1:17:51to me that Apple if it wants to do something having to do with cars and I
1:17:56think they seem to be starting in the interior and growing slowly and so
1:18:00unless they by Tesla which they totally should because it would be great I don't
1:18:04see them making a car thanks a lot for three sponsored this week
1:18:08cards against humanity fracture and Squarespace and we will see you next
1:18:12week
1:18:16now the show they didn't even mean to begin as it was accidental
1:18:23accidental john Kasay
1:18:31because it was accidental and a team article
1:19:14we didn't even mention that it's shaped like a minivan God can imagine that had
1:19:21it has to be maybe like maybe it's a compact hatchback of some sort but even
1:19:26thats kinda just mean that's a play I guess where his remarks well you know I
1:19:31should cars you can have things like that leaf did look sort of small smart
1:19:36cars that are owned by like you can end up with a car that is for lack of a
1:19:42better term dorky looking at it all just about like oh it's a little commuter
1:19:45cars for transportation purposes and that's what's interesting to me as well
1:19:50but then I can imagine someone who doesn't know anything about cars seeing
1:19:52that Tesla Model X and saying it's kind of like a minivan like anything that
1:19:57doesn't look like you know Ford Crown Victoria from their childhood wouldn't
1:20:04you wouldn't see defaults SUV rather than minivan if you didn't know any
1:20:07better
1:20:08didn't know anything about cars I would imagine has front looks like an
1:20:13even-handed like a lot of front overhang because you don't have an engine there
1:20:16and you can get better passenger packaging like the smart cards look you
1:20:20know I mean like if you make that a little bit larger and profit up it
1:20:23doesn't have like a nose that doesn't have a hood
1:20:27or chrome I don't know that that's of all the the doomsday scenarios them
1:20:33making some low electric commuter car like a leaf for like it was just so i
1:20:38understand because that is and I just really already begun a live interview
1:20:42ride so good I did how did like half of it so far
1:20:49everyone's raving about that article but if you have read Katie's johnnie I have
1:20:54booked a lot of that article read like a book report on the Johnny a book which
1:20:58is not to say it's a bad thing is it's great
1:21:00like if you haven't read the book does a lot of information and of course the
1:21:03actual interviews and access and that's the good part of the article a lot of it
1:21:06I felt like I was waiting for information that I already knew from the
1:21:08book that's not a slam in the article just why find it difficult to get
1:21:12through but anyway at one point johnnie I have my side of the window of his
1:21:15Bentley the Toyota Echo next doing complaints of the styling is terrible so
1:21:19I don't think it's beyond the realm of possibility dead Apple would be
1:21:28interested in designing a car and that it would be a dorky car like this is a
1:21:32dark like small you know commuter car for people who don't need to go long
1:21:39distances and owning a so much better for people who never even want to own a
1:21:42car
1:21:43only this is so much unlike on your car that it will be great for you and you
1:21:46they would never do that it accused the board of Ferrari and you know Jony ive
1:21:50has Aston Martins and like they like great cool cars but johnnie I was
1:21:55looking to stay and play the echo not because I think he thinks this Art Deco
1:21:58like the idea of a small economical cars terrible but just because he thought it
1:22:01wasn't designed in his mind is like I could do a little car that's much better
1:22:05than he was also picking on somebody down i mean Toyota has not made an
1:22:09attractive since at least the nineties if not earlier but was in a super-g at
1:22:14all papi was all done in 10 somebody really likes this is one that barely
1:22:18remember the original Nexus S II coupe interesting designed really the Lexus CT
1:22:25about the convertible hardtop original IC you guys maybe don't look at it that
1:22:32you like that like super old
1:22:35are you gotta go back in time like 11 2001 Lexus came out of the company they
1:22:39have one that say they have a picture here of 93292 to the sc300 sc400
1:22:46looks kinda like an integrity Miata had a baby and this is like to know what
1:22:50came out i mean but compared like this is comparatively much tighter like as in
1:22:56the skin is stretched must I drove this car that this is the innovative thing
1:23:00about this is not like it but i'm looking back a bit like wow look how
1:23:04smoothing curb the front and back are like this before cars became water
1:23:08balloons but this is ever reading a story about this that one of the design
1:23:14inspirations for the styling of his car was literally taking a water balloon
1:23:18squeezing it and seeing sweeping with your hands seeing the different shapes
1:23:22that is the reason to but compared this to like current actual water balloon
1:23:27cars and this looks like a sporty and smelt and just I'm not sure I agree with
1:23:33you on how good this is Marco this is not a very attractive card all it's a
1:23:38little bit dated but at the time it came out it was a very refined and stylish
1:23:43and it was a distinctive it didn't look like a Mercedes or BMW unlike for
1:23:47example the s400 which was like you know the poor man's Mercedes literally only
1:23:51ten times more reliable quieter but it was it was like this in the original G S
1:23:57actually had some distinctive styling cues were you could say this is like you
1:24:01know the current line alexis is also investing to start using our styling is
1:24:06a big giant ugly bow-tie mouth Acura I i would really say like like this year the
1:24:12last couple years have really not been kind to most car design we've had some
1:24:17really really bad it recently I really like the new court and I like the new
1:24:23five series to happen to be two of our cars but I think the styling of those
1:24:26cars took a definite turn for the better beat the previous generation with but
1:24:30ugly in the previous generation five was not good
1:24:33yeah I agree with those actually but you can look around the industry you can see
1:24:36a lot of things get sticky seem to keeping workers like for example
1:24:41everything Acura makes every Acura every Lexus some BMW's if I can say I really
1:24:48don't like the new m3 styling as we've just as we talk about this collapse I
1:24:52don't like that at all I don't like a cure i think is a little bit of an
1:24:56upswing is the head they had a really serious unfortunate be care and there I
1:25:01think they're trying to come out of that like the MDX like the low point just
1:25:06terror acts whatever that thing like I think they're starting to come out of it
1:25:11I think when they emerged that merge their high incidence back together into
1:25:15whatever it is they are on the TSX NRL became the same that is a
1:25:20rationalization and the styling of that car is not entirely hideous and really
1:25:25DRL wasn't entirely it is often a weird direction I think that you could try to
1:25:30come back like BMW went off in a direction to in there trying to gather
1:25:34it back but you know that the new 3 series starting off in a way direction
1:25:39again
1:25:3955 was the baby the peak comeback period and we'll see what the next five looks
1:25:44like to see if it gets better or worse the Maximus terrible these days don't
1:25:50even look at the maximum are just don't look all my god I heard it was getting
1:25:54better as it had some dark times but it is just getting worse I missed I miss
1:25:58the 40 S E 96 Maxima was it wasn't it was an incredibly attractive but it was
1:26:05it was at least neutral saying this is the new one oh boy she's what they do
1:26:11and what is wrong with Nissan what a shame the maximum was so good at it lost
1:26:16its way suppose severely Nissan had some interesting things like the when the
1:26:21Altima to the wraparound taillights like I was going a little bit too far but at
1:26:25least it was interesting and I think the maximum like one or two generations ago
1:26:30also had some interesting features it was stopped on a puffy in the right
1:26:34direction in the majors lost generation
1:26:38I miss neutral the ultimate pretty rough these days to thinking car market is not
1:26:46that welcoming as of late you're really that's a that's compelling these days
1:26:53well I think I think the move to electric is interesting you know it's
1:26:56still it's still pretty limited and expensive but I think that that's like
1:27:02you it's similar to move to SSDs and computers like that is that's clearly
1:27:07the way forward
1:27:08eventually obviously it's gonna move more slowly than the city transition but
1:27:13turns out gas engines are good enough for so many things and way better it's
1:27:20at certain other things that like it's gonna it's gonna be a long time before
1:27:24gas engines are in the minority but I i think i think the electric cars are
1:27:30going to be where we are looking for excitement and whether you know maybe
1:27:34that's why Apple wants to be a part of it if they do who knows but you know
1:27:37clearly from from people who who have driven them are from people who own them
1:27:41there are a lot of compelling differences to them there still are
1:27:46downsides but we'll get there
1:27:492015 Maxima I was thinking I was thinking of the 2014 12051 holy cow it
1:27:57even worse I'm speechless
1:28:04since last time when I first saw the rear end to the c7 Corvette like this
1:28:09the last time I felt this way what is that may be at the concept I i just then
1:28:22search for Nissan Maxima 2015 just the concept of a little bit better but like
1:28:27yeah this is this is not a shipping car but if it was that would be a big
1:28:32mistake
1:28:33think that it's not an attractive vehicle at least it would be different I
1:28:37mean like you could you describe this one as polarizing whereas the regular
1:28:42max but you can just described as mediocre to bad you know this polarizing
1:28:47somebody will love this
1:28:49you know people with bad taste probably but somebody will love this
1:28:52where the current maximum nobody can love it that's what I was thinking of
1:28:55the current when we're like that design with a little little corner cut out of
1:28:59the headlights the first time they did that was interesting but now it looks
1:29:04like a mistake it is look it looks like somebody like somebody just screwed up
1:29:09while dragging others design and 3d modeling software everybody Google 404
1:29:142014 to cleanse your palate this guy did the Maxima was at the end of the really
1:29:21sappy Super Bowl commercial from this year the one where the dads race car
1:29:25driver and and he liked picks us up from school or something like that where they
1:29:30killed children to advertise and I said sappy not stupid anyway the dad like
1:29:36picks up the kids after he's missed his entire childhood but he picks up a new
1:29:40Maximus all's forgiven I put the link in the chat about one minute 16 seconds
1:29:45give or take a little bit with this i'm looking at the 2014 Honda Accord to
1:29:49cleanse my palate and you're ready to dig them out because it just looks
1:29:52completely forgettable like a hybrid of looking at the alexa.com it's just it's
1:30:02just like it's just incredibly bland it even in in that light silver color that
1:30:06all incredibly bland cars in the last decade have been landed his distinctive
1:30:10it is not on bloody attractive has nice wheels I really like a sheet metal is
1:30:18stuck to the car
1:30:20yes I yeah I will I will give you that point and it is a car shaped car yes wow
1:30:26it's not shaped like a snail or a poop our standards are pretty low here this
1:30:30is this is this is what made you look at the maximal what does that shape like
1:30:34not a car that is the epitome of water balloon design I actually do not think
1:30:39the Accord is very good looking to be honest with you you don't really need
1:30:42that spoiler lip on the back to keep the wheels on the ground really fast does
1:30:46down for so that I think the rear end is not great but it's better than past the
1:30:53courts but I really like the front of it and even just a little bit too much
1:30:56chrome on the front just look at all the other hand is that are trying to use the
1:31:00same day
1:31:01sign language and how gross they are and this is the one car that got this design
1:31:04language to be attractive this looks no different to me than what's the big
1:31:10Toyota Camry this is so different go actually look at a camera camera now
1:31:14Camry you will see their money to see them in person it's not a record
1:31:20rectilinear headlights look at the camera now and it looks the exact same
1:31:25it might just not I would say the Accord looks better I would see the difference
1:31:30is pretty small thank you I would agree with that more know how a giant fish
1:31:34mouth looks like it's just the camera has nothing going for it
1:31:39know it has no distinction to its design is just a series of little details
1:31:44tacked onto squishy shape I would say the same thing is true the according to
1:31:49look like there's not a lot going on here there's it is a very like like it
1:31:54if you think about what what would be the dictionary definition of a car would
1:31:57have a picture of this next to it if you if you if you like those pictures where
1:32:01the average every human face and then the most average would not be the
1:32:07averages is different
1:32:08averaged together like the Camry and the maximum they do you do not get the
1:32:12Accord is not the average it may have been the average of a bunch of cars like
1:32:16a decade ago but it is it is off the beaten path of car makers now has
1:32:21attractive and classy I would say classy and is not does not embarrass itself in
1:32:26the way that the only cars do is it just disappears it just blends right into
1:32:30whatever I don't think it disappears I think I think being classy in this way
1:32:33doesn't disappear in the same way that like that Casey's beloved 5 series like
1:32:38Moses boring just gonna blends into the background looks like our young thing
1:32:41distinguishes this girl okay otherwise it's just a car shape car remember when
1:32:45all the BMW's bra like the same shape just came in different sizes
1:32:48not that different from now honestly it is now but they all have these boulders
1:32:52in triples and flanges all over them and they all have different rules in place
1:32:56to start when they were all the same the complaint was it's too boring it doesn't
1:33:01doesn't have the excitement of you know I'm gonna spend much money a car to look
1:33:06more exciting I just don't want to look like the same car in three sizes and
1:33:09super boring but I think that's a you know having restraint in being sort of a
1:33:15classic car that the places where it decides to emphasize its practices in
1:33:20the small details but the overall shape is very just simple and non showing I
1:33:26think it's perfectly well we're going to get screwed up with the back because the
1:33:28taillights are particularly nice looking but the overall shape of the car i think
1:33:33is very pleased to see your definition of classy to me what you're describing
1:33:36is the e39 m5 when I think boring an unremarkable I think of pretty much any
1:33:42accord that's ever been never a good example is the front air dam like the
1:33:47big plastic front bumper thing we ever gonna call that so many carmakers
1:33:50including I think most BMWs these days just go nuts with that thing and mess it
1:33:55up with BMW's your right is that not talked about this a million times the
1:34:01non M Sport front and front air dam on a regular BMW's like a little slit and it
1:34:06looks awful it looks terrible most of the reason I insisted on getting myself
1:34:10msport 335 was not because of anything else like it doesn't really go any
1:34:16faster doesn't handle any better cuz I've next drive it was strictly for that
1:34:19air dam because it actually looks good I think most of the things try to make
1:34:24every you I get his giant jet in take some big scoops and flanges and thinks
1:34:28poking out of it and that's why I think the import smart ones look worse than
1:34:31the other ones
1:34:32or at least more gaudy and just look at that look at the big front piece of
1:34:37plastic on the court it is restrained it does not to call attention to itself it
1:34:42completes the shape of the car with maybe a little bit of a smarty
1:34:47pretensions of like sticking out of the bottom rim little bit and with a little
1:34:50tiny chrome accent but it does not just compared to the same part on an m3
1:34:56current generation m3 which is like screams at you that I'm a transformer
1:34:59well but you're just you're making our point which is like the accord
1:35:03looks like it looks average and forgettable it is like it doesn't jump
1:35:07out at you know none of none of the designed just comes out and says look at
1:35:11me I'm i'ma huge design flaw it just the whole car just looks like an average
1:35:17completely forgettable car averaged car doesn't have those wheels and I would
1:35:20say an average guy doesn't have led highlights in the headlights and you
1:35:26know looking looking restrained I think it does make that again compared to the
1:35:29Avalon which looks like a giant cheese grater fish grill flying through the air
1:35:32hose on it like that is what the average is not this this is the average car like
1:35:40that the ultimate is the average car that Maximas the average car camera is
1:35:45the average car did not look like to compare that they just basically a room
1:35:48with the Accord and said well you know he calls himself in the bad way and if
1:35:52you averaged a bunch of cars together and think they look more like the app
1:35:55London like all my god the Avalon is ridiculous what is that that's the
1:36:00current that's like the Camry with little like this is uglier than the
1:36:05maximum concept exactly like that's what the average car looks like now and look
1:36:09at the well to go look at the camera
1:36:13yeah you're right that that front air dam is the kind of front air dam that I
1:36:17like the beginning whole taken way too far
1:36:21entirely too far out on top of it as an ugly ugly chrome nose and it got me
1:36:25shape in headlights hanging off the corners in the fog lights are all
1:36:28Michigan we agree about this is that I'm using blown away by buy this car
1:36:34by the Avalon like I i rented an Avalon a couple years ago on a trip and it was
1:36:40it was a pretty reasonable Carly it was huge and and totally marshmallow ailich
1:36:45you couldn't feel or do anything but it was overall a respectable choice like it
1:36:49looked average it was black it was you know low-key it was pretty fast given
1:36:53what it was and it was it was comfortable and it was fine it was it
1:36:58was perfectly fine choice this my god I mean look at the goal is now go look at
1:37:04the camera is pasted that is a look at the front piece of plastic on this
1:37:09camera and look at the shape of the headline look at how to shape of the
1:37:11headlights just have no conviction like and keep the Accord open another Windows
1:37:16you keep looking back from one to the other
1:37:18look at the rink in front of the camera all Camry and accord that basically the
1:37:21same are you kidding me look at that way I didn't say they basically look the
1:37:25same I did you see them both in front of you do you understand the card is very
1:37:31different and if you average police cars together they wouldn't like that and
1:37:34again throw and throw in the Altima throw in this this camera looks like
1:37:38it's been an accident doesn't like the way it has a good like half fog lights
1:37:45like on the side and in the whole front the whole front grille is like weirdly
1:37:49shaped and black it looks like it was it was an accident and has been half
1:37:53prepared and they haven't painted the new park see a look at the hood look at
1:37:57the hood cut lines even look at the shape of the headlights look at the hood
1:38:00cut lines look at look at the the lack of confidence in the chrome like it's
1:38:04going across the things for the logo is just nothing and I think the only other
1:38:11car company boring car company that has cars that have to styling that is not
1:38:16embarrassing it uses Mazda mazda6 again did not look like other cars is
1:38:21interesting as a family resemblance and has some interesting but it has has sort
1:38:26of the courage of his convictions it says conviction right in the marketing
1:38:29title conviction creativity courage this is what changes the game the first part
1:38:34of the pics and has a 2007 Mazda 6 which i think is a very pretty car for the
1:38:40time it
1:38:41has less conviction that it has the kind of large front air dam that I like then
1:38:47the generation after hers which started like 2008 2009 there was one or two
1:38:52generations actually that were just terrible but I agree with you that the
1:38:56brand new mazda6 maybe you're too old now is also very pretty and i also
1:39:00really really like it and I don't like the styling as much as the accord but
1:39:04you can't say that it looks like I think they've made it worse than when I just
1:39:08paid it actually looks worse than the original generations but like it has
1:39:10kind of shoulders and hips and its headlights have a purposeful distinct
1:39:15shape same thing with its head cut lines everything about it is not like I hate
1:39:19cars where it looks like the mold of the car out of clay and then someone else
1:39:23came later and cut out where the hood would be even beyond the current BMW 3
1:39:28is with that the hood corners that end on the right and left that just by the
1:39:31by the headlights like it looks like you made a car shape it was a good car shape
1:39:35before you put where you cut out for the hood makes it less attractive not
1:39:40integrated into the shape it's just that you took a laser images that you watch
1:39:48that I video someone sent us an I watched two seconds of it I didn't have
1:39:52a chance you should because first of all make Marco never buy this car which may
1:39:55be good because we think we shouldn't he shouldn't buy this car so stop them from
1:39:58so far I think I shouldn't buy this car so you need to any convincing the watch
1:40:03I wish I never been denied because it is it is not a four-door sedan ultimately I
1:40:12really just wanna four-door sedan and I'm very happy with the one you know
1:40:17some of the chairman said to be in WI it's going to test anxiety test lives
1:40:20with the exception of perhaps the stupid orientals is a actual real regular car
1:40:26like use it everyday nothing about it is weird you can open and close all the
1:40:29doors simply has weird or as well you can open and close all the different
1:40:33truck catches you get in and get out of it has everything about it is just the
1:40:38car drivers the aids like it's kind of a work of art
1:40:42kind of kind of a a statement about something also kind of works as a car
1:40:48you're careful alright so so let's let's take on the big guns now I don't think
1:40:53the Tesla Model S is that
1:40:55active it's not that the front of the front of the best things come out but
1:41:00the overall shape is pretty decent I would say that the Model S looks like it
1:41:04it looks extremely blobby
1:41:07it looks like all the personalities been sanded off I don't like the light design
1:41:11I don't like the front or the back design or the side design and I think
1:41:15and I've seen a number of them in person and and I don't think they use very high
1:41:20quality paint I've never split the black doesn't look very good looks boring like
1:41:26you can look at certain cars like I would get blacks you can look at certain
1:41:29cars you can see like certain blacks are better looking than others and test
1:41:34light pink has a pretty crappy one and like it doesn't it doesn't look like its
1:41:38price at all and for a car that is interesting and revolutionary I think it
1:41:44should look a little more like that and doesn't that's test those weeks by the
1:41:48Interior the same as well the materials of the Interior the comp supposedly in
1:41:52the new models there's an option for much better seats but like the interior
1:41:55of the materials that the comfort padding on the seeds like it just like
1:42:01sitting outside of it you know the pain quality the detailing it seems like a
1:42:06lower class then it should be I think the overall shape is actually pretty
1:42:10good actually kind of interesting and muscular but it like the front and rear
1:42:13and treatments do not do justice to the overall shape which is not bad like you
1:42:18blend overall the headlights and taillights and got rid of that grow on
1:42:22the front and just look like the car it looks in that regard think it does look
1:42:27like an expensive car in the shape because most cars again maybe the
1:42:31exception of like the mazda6 don't look sort of that that must give her and
1:42:37purposeful especially car with as much interior of the model assets like it
1:42:40doesn't look like
1:42:42big giant crossover SUV thing that's lowered down but I mean
1:42:47consider a game before a Tesla Roadster is flat out ugly like it was not an
1:42:51attractive looking car all visitors to the shape of it was awkward and weird
1:42:54and everything about it don't think that's true I thought was a decent
1:42:58looking car meet granted it was basically just a lotus but I didn't
1:43:01think it was a bad way better on that same frame than the Model S has
1:43:06something to recommended it sort of defines a test look I don't particularly
1:43:09good test look as bad attractive but I do like the overall shape of the card I
1:43:13do think the shape looks little bit expensive but yet a detailing you can
1:43:16get a yacht floor yeah there's an option for a yacht floor I think they are
1:43:22cranking up here is a super duper famous telling me about the new model
1:43:27got to drive one dealership gave him on when his was in the service of get drive
1:43:32one of the new fast ones and everything and talked about the new options I think
1:43:35like they realized their weaknesses are like people spend too much money on the
1:43:38card they want the interior to feel better than $30,000 $35,000 B&W cloth
1:43:44seats that are used to do in in European non-us
1:43:51and in the problem has always had a lot they've always compared themselves in
1:43:55justifying their their high price they've always said well if you compare
1:43:59us to like a Mercedes S Class which is what we're comfortable to contest right
1:44:04if you compare the interior quality to other like the set to a seven series and
1:44:09has class or the amenities or the amenities you know the Lexus Scion Lexus
1:44:13is like if you compare to any of the very high ends large sedans it doesn't
1:44:19quite match at least it hasn't in the past maybe I haven't seen it yet but the
1:44:23test level take that class off the line and a day
1:44:26and so like so you can kind of start selling it is like in the same way the
1:44:31you don't expect like you know and our DRS Porsche gt3 you know the interior is
1:44:37gonna be like strip down and bear like that's part of the aesthetic of the car
1:44:41like you're not in like in some ways Tessa kind of unintentionally has that
1:44:45going for it like we don't intend to make a stripped-down always thought
1:44:47maybe in the first model like the interior was like the patent was so then
1:44:51the seating area just because they wanted to say boy and like this big
1:44:53luxurious cushy seats like you have your car margo there were a lot and so if
1:44:57you're trying to cut down and wait you're gonna give it a little bit
1:45:00cheaper seats that's why I think the good news is there an option and I
1:45:02wonder how much more they way than the other stuff but if you know if your
1:45:07gonna go with that thing at least you have performance today still way the
1:45:11time and change direction that well but like it does it does add that superflat
1:45:16cornering attitude that feels weird and you know it's super fast and quiet and
1:45:21actually a fun electric car to drive by all accounts I gotta drive 1 I'm tired
1:45:27of guessing how much fun it is I think he will find it to be super heavy and
1:45:31corner strangely flat and be really fast in a straight line that's it is very
1:45:35likely that I'm gonna hit the lack of knobs and buttons have not driven one
1:45:39but I have been driven in one and even just being a passenger I was just
1:45:42immediately apparent like I did not like I went in expecting to be able to really
1:45:46know didn't think about it whatever how flat is it connery like strangely so
1:45:52startling without having you know stiff suspension where you feel every bump
1:45:55because this humongous weight as a run the bottom of the bottom of the car and
1:46:01then did I feel that the car felt heavy I can tell that as a passenger that I
1:46:05just know it is no wonder how many people are actually listen to this call
1:46:10is neutral at people can take it the whole show is neutral this is this is
1:46:14mostly staying at yeah it's not our fault they first and yeah we had to do
1:46:20this it was an accidental car podcast