The Accidental Tech Podcast

104: MinutiƦ


00:00:00   those brief moments of time when I listen to the two of you go back and [TS]

00:00:03   forth and fermented I'm like man I'm not even here anymore and I feel ever so [TS]

00:00:09   slightly sad but then I continue to listen to you too going back and forth [TS]

00:00:13   and I just don't even care anymore cuz I'm entertained as hell we had recently [TS]

00:00:18   received an email as recently as about two hours ago about how we say to each [TS]

00:00:24   other or say actually to you the listener please email anyone other than [TS]

00:00:29   us or please don't send us email etc would you like to talk a little more [TS]

00:00:33   about this e-mail [TS]

00:00:34   the first time since I'm a little surprised about your whole email topic [TS]

00:00:38   now this is already kind of like spreading the topic water because this [TS]

00:00:43   started with Marco getting specific feedback and bug reports about overcast [TS]

00:00:48   right but in this sort of expanded into like the entire topic of us getting [TS]

00:00:52   email and so this feedback is not about Marco and his bug reports really it's [TS]

00:00:57   really about when we say on the show please don't know about whatever right [TS]

00:01:02   so I already think this is kind of off-topic missus like it it's related to [TS]

00:01:06   the discussion but whatever you want to do this not interested in really [TS]

00:01:09   discussing how marker handle his feedback is more interest in discussing [TS]

00:01:13   the joke that we do as they please don't send us your email and he says it makes [TS]

00:01:17   him feel like that we don't appreciate the listeners that you know a good sense [TS]

00:01:21   here he says he loves us all to show it doesn't make me feel entitled anything I [TS]

00:01:25   know that obviously and I know that it's possible to get back to everybody but [TS]

00:01:29   what is it impossible to appreciate your position to appreciate the fact that [TS]

00:01:32   people devote their time to actually tell you what they think to appreciate [TS]

00:01:35   that people are the are the ones that are attracting sponsors etc to [TS]

00:01:39   appreciate that a podcast by nit pickers is going to attract nit pickers to [TS]

00:01:42   appreciate that so many people really care and I do appreciate you listen to [TS]

00:01:45   the whole email joke the whole annoyances need to find a respectable it [TS]

00:01:48   strange off-putting very arrogant and makes me kind of angry and makes my [TS]

00:01:52   engagement feel pathetic and needy it's really not that hard to say a few nice [TS]

00:01:56   words you know this I would say that we don't have a [TS]

00:02:00   ignoring the fact that most of the time were just joking right because Joe could [TS]

00:02:03   be hurtful to we don't have a blanket ban on an email we don't say a [TS]

00:02:10   prohibition played in fact we encourage tacitly encouraged email by responding [TS]

00:02:15   to emails on the show and a lot of the follow-up is about things that people [TS]

00:02:19   send us the corrections for things are expansions on topics we take real-time [TS]

00:02:23   feedback and real-time follow-up from the chat room from people saying the [TS]

00:02:26   same thing right so it's clear that we're not like nobody ever you know [TS]

00:02:29   anything you know for whatever reason we don't say that I mean there's a feedback [TS]

00:02:33   form on our site that I made like we have this form on the site that says and [TS]

00:02:39   feedback if we wanted to not actually receive any feedback we would just take [TS]

00:02:43   the form now like Marco and providing support he destroyed the feedback so [TS]

00:02:49   that first of all I was at the premise that the idea that we just are saying we [TS]

00:02:52   don't want any feedback [TS]

00:02:53   not that's not our messages all we do very frequently though say please don't [TS]

00:02:58   email us about whatever topic and that is specifically focused on whatever it [TS]

00:03:03   was we were talking about so it's like you know I'm I'm going to tell you about [TS]

00:03:08   this toaster oven I got please don't send me e-mail about slide toasters the [TS]

00:03:12   reason and then I by saying I know about so I know slide doses exists I know that [TS]

00:03:18   they're different than toaster ovens I am reviewing toaster oven it's right and [TS]

00:03:21   there were like and part of that is like the police on email thing is a long [TS]

00:03:28   running gag for many pockets that we've listened to and been on a fast as you [TS]

00:03:31   know I'm not contact me it doesn't make much that it's also kind of a joke like [TS]

00:03:34   God I don't wanna hear most people it is going to tell you about the slightest is [TS]

00:03:36   right but is very specifically focused on this one thing you did not think [TS]

00:03:40   please email me ever about anything if you know something cool about new [TS]

00:03:45   DisplayPort specification yes send email about it if you say I have been an Apple [TS]

00:03:50   Genius for X number of years and this is my experience and yes send us e-mail by [TS]

00:03:53   of course we want that email query done the show we appreciate it we appreciate [TS]

00:03:57   our listeners so I don't want people listening to think I don't think most [TS]

00:04:00   people do but it's a person does it really that we don't [TS]

00:04:03   want feedback from anybody it's 50% I'm a joke and the other 50% I'm very [TS]

00:04:08   focused kind of exasperation at any particular type of feedback that we [TS]

00:04:13   expect to get because we said something that we know leaves us open to a [TS]

00:04:17   particular kind of correction and we're trying to say you don't need to send us [TS]

00:04:20   that correction because we are fully aware that we have either intentionally [TS]

00:04:23   ignored this thing or whatever right it's it's a wait I use it as a way to [TS]

00:04:28   preempt getting a whole bunch of emails that begin with well you know and some [TS]

00:04:35   big argument about something that like I know I think I just said is contentious [TS]

00:04:39   or I know there is something that other people are gonna tell me about what I [TS]

00:04:42   just said and I'm just like I don't want to engage the entire discussion right [TS]

00:04:46   now I don't like it's a way for me to basically try to try to pre-empt getting [TS]

00:04:51   a whole bunch of duplicate emails telling me something I already know and [TS]

00:04:55   that says everybody time and that's not to say it's not annoying if you're [TS]

00:04:57   annoyed by it is totally right to be annoyed but it can be annoying I fully [TS]

00:05:01   admit that but we are human and we get exasperated sometimes to express that on [TS]

00:05:05   the show ya so this email was from hell [TS]

00:05:09   d I'm assuming him in what i'd i'd replied to him or her I'm thinking him [TS]

00:05:16   and saying what I said was we don't worry we say don't email us either [TS]

00:05:22   because we really don't care about the minutiae manush a militia [TS]

00:05:26   all the nuances topic at hand on me about bezel but you're gonna go minutiae [TS]

00:05:33   and that I was the emails to people not email you about the correct [TS]

00:05:45   pronunciation of minutiae so pleased that the Supreme abused the privilege to [TS]

00:05:52   use it anyway let me try this again we we say please don't either because we [TS]

00:05:59   really don't care about the minutiae of the topic at hand or because we know we [TS]

00:06:03   won't be able to respond to everyone [TS]

00:06:05   and actually at that reminded me as we were talking of another piece of [TS]

00:06:08   follow-up which is I saw a handful of people generally speaking from Europe [TS]

00:06:13   who seemed confused about the whole toaster oven thing isn't that just the [TS]

00:06:19   grill and then I realized we had a language barrier between your speakers [TS]

00:06:22   with someone from the UK are one of the some other thing that Marco can tell us [TS]

00:06:29   the correct name of dewey maybe just put a you somewhere and it would that make [TS]

00:06:32   them know what we're talking about a toaster oven now who is great it was [TS]

00:06:36   great because someone said it's not just the grill and I replied no I didn't look [TS]

00:06:40   up like where they're from or something but I was confused by and then another [TS]

00:06:43   person who obviously knows who speaks the variant of English at that person [TS]

00:06:47   mister speaking tweeted back to them said I think that what you mean by grill [TS]

00:06:50   isn't what they mean by him [TS]

00:06:52   language barrier we don't know the words for things but we put links in the show [TS]

00:06:57   notes right click on them and see what it is it's a thing toaster ovens are [TS]

00:07:01   things in America anyway and so if you live in one of these barbaric countries [TS]

00:07:05   that doesn't really have a toaster toaster ovens basically it's like a [TS]

00:07:10   little tiny oven that can serve either as a toaster or in oven hands toaster [TS]

00:07:15   oven and they're extremely convenient if you'd like to reheat something [TS]

00:07:19   especially something brady Heslip being the most obvious example french fries [TS]

00:07:25   anything like that if you want to eat something bready but you don't wanna do [TS]

00:07:29   so in the microwave because then it'll end up all gummy toaster oven is a great [TS]

00:07:33   way to do it now yes you could use a traditional open but why in the world [TS]

00:07:36   would you start up what is probably multiple square feet of space to heat [TS]

00:07:41   one slice of pizza or two slices of pizza and so toaster oven is the best of [TS]

00:07:45   both worlds because big enough for usually a slice of pizza of Spitzer to [TS]

00:07:50   or it's a toaster big enough for a baby a couple bagels or something like that [TS]

00:07:54   where an intense it tends to hit up just about as quickly as doing in the [TS]

00:07:58   microwave for me like if you're gonna mean it's it's not thirty seconds but if [TS]

00:08:02   you're going to reheat slice of pizza a toaster oven has it done in like two or [TS]

00:08:05   three minutes at most and so that's its way faster than using a full size [TS]

00:08:09   nobody should ever put a pizza in a microwave I just wanna say completely [TS]

00:08:13   agreed but anyway so if you don't know what its host Robin is well perhaps it's [TS]

00:08:17   time to to move to a different country but nevertheless may be imported or [TS]

00:08:24   something like that [TS]

00:08:25   nationalized health care or toaster oven toaster ovens I think I might to brand [TS]

00:08:30   of my toaster oven bread no apparently that's a proprietary eponym see I did [TS]

00:08:34   remember that the past episode it's pronounced Brazil that that its [TS]

00:08:38   proprietary Eminem in the UK like Kleenex or whatever and so someone that [TS]

00:08:42   sharon says a Breville refers to something we would call a grill in the [TS]

00:08:46   UK percent which so they've taken that tire brand interned in do you know if I [TS]

00:08:51   for the entire category of things like a panini grill type of thing but maybe [TS]

00:08:56   that's definitely going but again follow the links mission its show you exactly [TS]

00:09:00   last week shows yeah we're not gonna put in this week so now it's because it was [TS]

00:09:05   already there you shoulda click the links kids are for sponsor before we're [TS]

00:09:09   done a single topic is a Glu Glu is an internet you actually like Spotify this [TS]

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00:10:59   glue software dot com slash ATP thanks a lot to a leaper sponsoring our show once [TS]

00:11:04   again been a longtime sponsor friend Mr show very much thank you we should talk [TS]

00:11:10   about the photos that that we all thought may have kind of gone away [TS]

00:11:15   real-time follow up on the Bravo it's not happening it's not a panini press [TS]

00:11:19   look at the thing I just put in the shower now it's it's the thing like it's [TS]

00:11:24   like a clamshell thing that closes and has two little compartments for bread [TS]

00:11:30   like it to be spread and I know the kind of like keeps them from both sides [TS]

00:11:34   different than the panini press badges on the flat services we deliver rages on [TS]

00:11:37   this is a common thing like that when they prefer older I've seen them in the [TS]

00:11:40   USA just don't think many people have them but that's what they call it that's [TS]

00:11:43   what they call a Breville and if you read the history of the thing that's [TS]

00:11:46   really i mean I've seen them before but it looking at the chat room it seems [TS]

00:11:51   like in the UK and Australia everyone has one of these and I cannot think of [TS]

00:11:55   any one of my friends or family that has won it so it's labeled there as a [TS]

00:11:59   durable stainless steel Jack filmmakers are those chapel's is that like that's [TS]

00:12:03   what we call this a try to pronounce that word maybe it's just lay job like [TS]

00:12:09   waffle so quick aside I was at work this year ago now and somebody was one of my [TS]

00:12:18   coworkers is talking about doing something in javascript and at one point [TS]

00:12:22   he said something about just saw and I was like oh my god [TS]

00:12:30   I think he was saying it you know comically and are ironically whatever [TS]

00:12:34   but I heard and sure enough JSON [TS]

00:12:39   my boss used to say it's over it's over that's when you put your age over an [TS]

00:12:46   item and the nature of her style the links but he was supporting trying to [TS]

00:12:52   pronounce pronounce that word because you knew that a problem that's true [TS]

00:12:57   because you never know when that'll go wrong but for the record it's like about [TS]

00:13:02   them in 20 minutes alright sorry for the derail photos back to ya so let's talk [TS]

00:13:06   about photos we at all not genuinely be kind of wonder day what happened to [TS]

00:13:12   photos because somebody pointed out to us that it disappeared from Apple's [TS]

00:13:15   website well apparently it's back it's back in a big way because it actually in [TS]

00:13:20   the latest beta now have either of you guys tried but you crazy I was actually [TS]

00:13:27   gonna try like not on my computer with my actual photos but just just a load [TS]

00:13:30   the program and throw some sample photos that or whatever but then I realized [TS]

00:13:34   that I'm pretty sure that you have to upgrade to 10 10 3 beta and I wasn't [TS]

00:13:41   willing to do that just just a try the photos that I just yet the reason I'm [TS]

00:13:45   using it it's like I'm not gonna run a date OS on my main computer that's [TS]

00:13:49   that's not gonna happen I'm very open a lot of time doing stuff like deserve a [TS]

00:13:56   break I also I feel like this is a good opportunity that I really should take to [TS]

00:14:01   go back and clean out some of my photo library because there's so much [TS]

00:14:04   sometimes I'm sure this happens a lot of people go on a trip or something or you [TS]

00:14:09   know we'll do a shoot with the care of the dog or both or whatever and I'll [TS]

00:14:13   just dumped all the photos into iPhoto library and then just never really [TS]

00:14:16   picked them so I have your judgment like 30 gig folder is full of some shooters [TS]

00:14:22   I'm like that it's like do I do if I just took an hour to go through this I [TS]

00:14:26   would probably delete 95% of pictures and just keep like the five percent of [TS]

00:14:30   the best ones that actually want to see again and basically I need to apply that [TS]

00:14:35   process to like five years of photos I it's like sprinkling I keep meaning to [TS]

00:14:39   do as a maybe this is like [TS]

00:14:41   maybe this is my motivation to do it finally do get their problem I used to [TS]

00:14:46   use iPhoto this was no 34 years ago now and i felt it was nothing but a burden [TS]

00:14:53   and there's probably a million in seven ways that you can blame that on me and [TS]

00:14:57   probably million in six of them are correct for whatever reason I just have [TS]

00:15:02   a workflow that that really worked well for me and what I ended up doing since [TS]

00:15:05   then is just issuing that's how I pronounce that word right [TS]

00:15:08   issuing iPhoto altogether this is the axonal pronunciation podcasts and and [TS]

00:15:14   now what I'm doing is and i think is Bradley chambers learning tool of photo [TS]

00:15:18   management in combination with some some scripts from Dr drang and so basically [TS]

00:15:23   what I do is I have all of my pictures renamed consistently and stored [TS]

00:15:29   consistently my file system and that's as close as I get any sort of [TS]

00:15:32   organization and I wish I had a better organization system [TS]

00:15:36   insofar as something where maybe I tagged pictures that I think a really [TS]

00:15:40   good or a group them into events or what have you the sorts of things that I [TS]

00:15:44   suspect photos that will be great for but for whatever reason just felt like [TS]

00:15:48   such a pain in the butt with iPhoto that I never really did it now you have [TS]

00:15:53   described Mrs before I put them all in iPhoto and then I started them and the [TS]

00:15:57   only cleaning I really do I'm I tend to be like not want to get rid of pictures [TS]

00:16:03   of my kids like they're not framed correctly or even if they're a lot of [TS]

00:16:06   focus sometimes they're so cute and I do is I would you rate them all and when I [TS]

00:16:11   feel like doing a little cleaning I just show all the ones stars in the ones are [TS]

00:16:14   basically like you should really delete the lighting is really bad or its blurry [TS]

00:16:18   or whatever they can I will delete as a look at every picture when they load [TS]

00:16:22   them into iPhoto like my footer like something you know totally dead [TS]

00:16:28   but all one-star ones and then when I want to clean it really easy for me to [TS]

00:16:31   just show a smart album that shows one-star thing they just go through and [TS]

00:16:34   delete all your pussy then you can't see the ones around them that were better so [TS]

00:16:38   you can really know which of these do I need to keep a one-star means I mean I [TS]

00:16:42   can look at the pictures like these are so blurry like they're not not one [TS]

00:16:46   starring if it's in focus and people are in the front like those never get one [TS]

00:16:50   star 1 star basically means you should really do want stars thing that most [TS]

00:16:53   people would delete immediately I just let them stew and if I feel like doing [TS]

00:16:57   anyhow I i delete all I i think i deleted everyone start my collection of [TS]

00:17:00   a couple years ago it was a lot of photos at been now I just can't let them [TS]

00:17:03   build up maybe you're just letting them develop like a Polaroid like figuring [TS]

00:17:07   maybe it'll get better if I just leave it here for hours and also like a [TS]

00:17:12   picture that is actually out of focus sometimes we do like family counters for [TS]

00:17:17   you and you know make the calendar for the year with pictures and everything [TS]

00:17:19   and had to settle collages we can put the pictures sometimes as little spots [TS]

00:17:22   on the counter for small photos and even a picture of the two blurry like it's [TS]

00:17:26   not in focus when you shrink it down to be like one of the small thumbnails kind [TS]

00:17:30   of an angle on the corner of a counter thing it doesn't actually even look at [TS]

00:17:33   bad so occasionally that's why I'm kind of keeping the one starter on Orbitz [TS]

00:17:37   like me trying to see a picture of like what some would have on the shelf in [TS]

00:17:43   this year where was that thing yeah I wish I wish this system was more [TS]

00:17:50   intelligent about finding things that I do keyword them but my keywords are [TS]

00:17:54   limited to like a keyword region my children and then one keyword for me and [TS]

00:17:59   my wife made us individually and that's about it and the fees they going to do [TS]

00:18:05   that doesn't faces feature find all the people that you want for you well I [TS]

00:18:09   start doing it this year existed long before her first and second of all no [TS]

00:18:13   it's not reliable enough like me manually keyword in them is much more [TS]

00:18:17   reliable than faces I wish I could turn case officer was grinding away [TS]

00:18:21   the fans spin up on the MacBook Air to try to take people's faces but that's [TS]

00:18:25   the same thing I do what I do and start him and basically using the stars a [TS]

00:18:30   threshold system easily let me sort of get more people are trying to get by [TS]

00:18:34   cleaning things out but just like just show me three stars or better those of [TS]

00:18:37   the good pictures there's very few of them something my collection become [TS]

00:18:40   small and manageable and I want to share photos photostream or you know something [TS]

00:18:45   to relatives and just show three stars it's super manageable people want their [TS]

00:18:49   collections actually be like that I can't bring myself to throw up to star [TS]

00:18:52   ones but the ones that want to delete that good for a second I think so [TS]

00:18:57   11 thing that we were skeptical of our or hesitant or whatever the right word [TS]

00:19:02   here is just asked her she was still sick I have a good reason is that we [TS]

00:19:08   were wondering like you know one of the issues with cloud service back things [TS]

00:19:13   and and I club stuff in particular is that there's pretty much no visibility [TS]

00:19:17   into the storage and no recourse if it doesn't increase you like to leave your [TS]

00:19:22   contact like it's pretty hard to recover from that in a lot of cases for audio [TS]

00:19:26   services and if you if you have this on your Mac and it has all these files in [TS]

00:19:32   their local you can back up these files and then hopefully have some way to [TS]

00:19:35   import them if you had to like nuclear iCloud account and start clean or [TS]

00:19:40   restore but just after was deleted and it seems really reports that the storage [TS]

00:19:46   layout of it you can infer things on this and it does leave them where they [TS]

00:19:50   are not copy them in but by default it seems to maintain a very iPhoto like [TS]

00:19:54   library structure so that these files are just sitting there as files on your [TS]

00:19:58   desk all of your photos are there by default it will only be smart strategy [TS]

00:20:03   leads in the originals or you know catch things online only if you enable the [TS]

00:20:07   special aglow space mode so you can just have one peter has the whole library on [TS]

00:20:12   it and has always original sitting there as files and you can always reach import [TS]

00:20:16   them later so it does seem like it is durable enough in that way to be used as [TS]

00:20:21   your main photo app at these ones they work out any glaring bugs actually even [TS]

00:20:25   better than that like we should explain why the experience of this is my photos [TS]

00:20:28   temperature was an app that Apple had both discontinued both your place but [TS]

00:20:31   it's a both mediocre [TS]

00:20:33   functionality wise photos did not include all the functionality of a [TS]

00:20:36   preacher include the most of the functionality of iPhoto but so this this [TS]

00:20:40   application is coming into people's lives with the expectation that you've [TS]

00:20:44   already got all your photos in one of these other applications are in a folder [TS]

00:20:47   of craps and it handles all those situations like if you have an iPhoto [TS]

00:20:52   library when you started up it will import that I've our library and it [TS]

00:20:56   won't actually make duplicates in the files over to make hard links them put a [TS]

00:20:59   link in the shootout six-mile darlings are basically doesn't take up any more [TS]

00:21:02   room on your disk but it makes a separate parallel structure of its own [TS]

00:21:06   at that point your libraries are divorced from each other and if you make [TS]

00:21:10   changes to either one of them the changes are no longer visible so that [TS]

00:21:13   it's a one-time kind of import process that doesn't actually take a bit much [TS]

00:21:16   more disk space but at that point their diverse like they're not kept in sync [TS]

00:21:20   with each other if you have a powerful pictures that just like you organize [TS]

00:21:24   yourself you can just start photos up make a new empty library and import [TS]

00:21:28   those pictures I believe it will copy them and know what happened in that case [TS]

00:21:32   you can tell it to leave the pictures where they are is a preference kind of [TS]

00:21:34   guidance preference of copy media into library you can tell it don't move my [TS]

00:21:38   stuff I have an arrangement folders just just referenced them from where they are [TS]

00:21:41   and it will do that it will leave them in your next organized folder structure [TS]

00:21:44   will put a little thing in the app that shows you like oh by the way this [TS]

00:21:47   picture is in in a library its reference from another location and if you want to [TS]

00:21:51   work that way which I would totally recommend not doing because it's crazy [TS]

00:21:54   and you're crazy person [TS]

00:21:55   application will do that you have put you can organize your photos into little [TS]

00:22:00   holders by date and name them whatever the heck he won and they just refuse [TS]

00:22:03   them from the Photos app and continue that crazy workflow where you act as a [TS]

00:22:08   partisan putting the boulders and then referenced from the application and just [TS]

00:22:12   like iPhoto you can hold down the option key online chats which among different [TS]

00:22:15   libraries the only limitation you have is that this is all just like totally [TS]

00:22:20   local forget about network connection this assault walks totally locally no [TS]

00:22:22   clouds that involved at all right if you want to do some cloud stuff then you can [TS]

00:22:27   designate one library as like the system library like the iPhoto the iCloud [TS]

00:22:33   library [TS]

00:22:33   one library system can be loud backed up and then you have the choice do I want [TS]

00:22:39   to keep all the originals on my Mac and then also put them in the cloud or they [TS]

00:22:42   want to use like whatever called like smarter advanced storage where the sum [TS]

00:22:45   of the preference says I don't care if they're all on my Mac you can actually [TS]

00:22:49   take something off on that as long as they're in the cloud that's the second [TS]

00:22:52   option so this is extremely flexible application that does things in pretty [TS]

00:22:56   much the smartest way possible given the current policies and technology we have [TS]

00:22:59   the leaves every person able to do whatever it is that they want with their [TS]

00:23:03   photos [TS]

00:23:04   the only bad thing about a transition why's it this absolutely bug in like a [TS]

00:23:08   racist stuff and destroys your photos and they get lost in the crowd and [TS]

00:23:10   everything any changes you made after that initial kind of one-time import [TS]

00:23:16   process will be lost because once you do that import you are now leaving iPhoto [TS]

00:23:20   behind I suppose you could import your photos into both of them in parallel but [TS]

00:23:24   then you will actually be duplicating because the one time in part with that [TS]

00:23:27   with the hard licking stuff doesn't take much more space that's not an ongoing [TS]

00:23:31   thing so there is a transition points are expected to suspected I try out this [TS]

00:23:35   program I will try it out and then I don't know maybe just like bailout after [TS]

00:23:41   importing the couple pictures into an entry import the same things into my [TS]

00:23:45   photo library like I still have a good transition plan but spec wise the photos [TS]

00:23:50   application seems like it does all the right things to make everybody except [TS]

00:23:55   for average users are screwed it will everybody everybody happy except the [TS]

00:24:00   people who use that picture and will miss all the features that doesn't [TS]

00:24:03   happen terms of advanced photo editing [TS]

00:24:05   well the editing controls are actually not that far off this is one of the [TS]

00:24:09   reasons I'm very excited about this app that the the actual editing process and [TS]

00:24:14   the controls you have for editing are very advanced and really are pro level [TS]

00:24:18   editing tools compared to Aperture and Lightroom Lightroom is probably slightly [TS]

00:24:23   more aggressive certain areas aperture I'm not sure haven't used in a couple of [TS]

00:24:26   years but it's probably very very closely matches editing tools where [TS]

00:24:31   where it falls short is in the organizational tools of things like [TS]

00:24:35   Aperture and Lightroom and especially if you're coming from a picture I think [TS]

00:24:38   it's gonna be [TS]

00:24:39   if you're if you really heavily using those organizational systems of faults [TS]

00:24:44   and all these things like that's most of that is now can transfer over gracefully [TS]

00:24:48   so that's that's really where are you going to be very rightfully upset but [TS]

00:24:54   besides that I it looks good I haven't used it yet but it sure looks like the [TS]

00:24:59   editing and processing of the photos is just as good as a preacher was but they [TS]

00:25:04   don't have like the interface like doing the pics like that a lot of average was [TS]

00:25:07   about professional photographers taking lots of photos and then designating the [TS]

00:25:12   ones I think are good in serving efficient manner like it's not there's [TS]

00:25:16   no work flow like that as far as I can tell built-in decoders whereas a picture [TS]

00:25:19   so much of a preacher was focused on you know the editing tools which is one [TS]

00:25:23   thing and then this whole you know I guess in the balls in the management and [TS]

00:25:26   then the picking process i fair with a call is that the word they use I think [TS]

00:25:30   so I might be at a temperature but the average girl like her ability to be way [TS]

00:25:36   better for what pro's actually do like my my wife TIFF is not going to use the [TS]

00:25:41   phone as I can already tell you that she's not going to use it she has even [TS]

00:25:44   Aperture and Lightroom are too heavy headed for her she uses bridge and [TS]

00:25:48   budget director is the one she does client shoots just want to break into [TS]

00:25:52   some giant library program and had organized things for like she does it [TS]

00:25:55   all in the file system with bridge into the pic in that way it works great for [TS]

00:25:59   most pros are going to have a system like that we're going to use one of [TS]

00:26:03   these pro apps to do all that organizational and stuff and managing [TS]

00:26:07   the shoot and managing the picking and all that stuff there I could use a sad [TS]

00:26:10   but that's fine this isn't made for them this is made for the people like me who [TS]

00:26:15   and of course everybody else but like people like me who were using aperture [TS]

00:26:20   and or Lightroom for its advanced editing controls primarily and then [TS]

00:26:25   secondarily would occasionally took some of these library functions but we were [TS]

00:26:28   mainly therefore the editing controls that's that's definitely case for me I [TS]

00:26:32   know it's the case for a lot a lot of people who like bought a solarz in the [TS]

00:26:36   last eight years and got into photography as a hobby just having the [TS]

00:26:41   editing controls built into the main photos library mechanism on iOS devices [TS]

00:26:47   and Max is gonna be awesome because like [TS]

00:26:50   for all these years we've had to decide between something that's fully [TS]

00:26:54   integrated into Apple's ecosystem instincts everywhere is all in all the [TS]

00:26:58   photos pictures all that stuff or has a great editing controls and proof stuff [TS]

00:27:03   and they were always these things you have to give up you know one way or the [TS]

00:27:06   other and this looks like it's perfect for people like me many many prosumer [TS]

00:27:12   who's really interesting ever talk about is not like doing pro photo shoots [TS]

00:27:16   actually for clients every day on the weekends or whatever Lee this is for us [TS]

00:27:20   and I'm very much looking forward to meeting and roles like the adding [TS]

00:27:24   intelligence of the editing charles is really important because they like the [TS]

00:27:27   default for most photographs including apples with the exception of the magic [TS]

00:27:32   wand enhance button like to give you one but it's like you don't understand all [TS]

00:27:35   these crazy controls press the magic wand to maybe we'll make your photos [TS]

00:27:38   look better or maybe even if you don't like it you like whatever when you're [TS]

00:27:41   faced with ok well so the magic wand and Mark here's a thousand sliders good luck [TS]

00:27:45   right and if you don't know how to use those fighters it it's daunting to [TS]

00:27:50   figure out how to do you know if this million different combinations you tryin [TS]

00:27:53   like I don't know do I move this and that or whatever [TS]

00:27:55   also photos has the sort of intelligent thing where they give you sliders [TS]

00:27:58   they're sort of Medicine lighters that caused the other sliders to move in what [TS]

00:28:02   it hopes are pleasing way if you like all I that's bad I don't want to be [TS]

00:28:05   smart move the sliders around I wanna move the actual slightest of the great [TS]

00:28:08   thing is you can use these these medical trolls that influence the other sliders [TS]

00:28:12   to try to like most people can do that I would never have thought to put those [TS]

00:28:16   other side of this position but when I slide stop slide all these other things [TS]

00:28:18   move around but you still have the ability to edit every single one of the [TS]

00:28:22   details sliders manually as well so if you want to use the sliders by hand you [TS]

00:28:26   can but most people have no idea how to get good results with that so they can [TS]

00:28:29   use those other medicine later so it's a big step up from either magic wand or [TS]

00:28:33   you're on your own and all these edits are fully synced not not just like [TS]

00:28:38   burning into a JPEG and thinking that the actual edit states are sick so that [TS]

00:28:43   you can go on your phone or iPad and make adjustments and that sinks back [TS]

00:28:47   well in theory I mean let's be serious if this is all based on cloud get so far [TS]

00:28:52   are clock at stuff has been solid why didn't my contacts think Marco contact [TS]

00:28:57   us like tiny Saturday and why that's a good question I have no idea my faith [TS]

00:29:02   I'm ready to be impressed I'm [TS]

00:29:05   it seems it seems like you know I've heard rumblings and I'm sure everyone's [TS]

00:29:09   heard these rumblings that like any Q's team took over iCloud something [TS]

00:29:13   something and was really like revolutionising in fixing stuff like a [TS]

00:29:17   year ago like that's what all the stuff started allegedly and it seems like [TS]

00:29:22   Cloud kid and the cloud photo library stuff and all the stuff that came out of [TS]

00:29:26   that all based on cloud it seems like that is most likely to be the result of [TS]

00:29:31   that rumor and that we're seeing now like they're doing they're doing good [TS]

00:29:36   things about stuff like they'd rather than the initial iCloud service stuff [TS]

00:29:41   which was the documents suffixes you know fairly simple problem separate was [TS]

00:29:46   done kinda ugly but mostly worked key-value store which works alright and [TS]

00:29:50   then Core Data Sync which was a disaster [TS]

00:29:53   you know they they they try to tackle this incredibly complex problem that [TS]

00:29:56   really can't be done well in the way they attempted to do it and of course so [TS]

00:30:01   its cloud kid was like we don't have an answer back in the summer league cloud [TS]

00:30:05   kid is Apple kind of saying okay we're gonna do a cloud service that actually [TS]

00:30:10   is much easier to do well and they so far seems like they did so I'm pretty [TS]

00:30:18   confident in in this service probably being good I mean you know we'll see [TS]

00:30:23   what happens in practice once launched [TS]

00:30:25   scale and everything we've been using it for a few months but I think it all the [TS]

00:30:29   pieces seem to be in place for this to actually be good and work pretty well [TS]

00:30:33   most of the time all the time which is the fact that their dog food yet so [TS]

00:30:37   heavily i think is a pretty big change from say iCloud with core data recorded [TS]

00:30:42   with a clever whatever the terminology was the impression I had was a nobody [TS]

00:30:46   was dog food that but just like you said Marco sounds like apples have lead dog [TS]

00:30:53   food eating cloud kid in and that's that's definitely a good thing for all [TS]

00:30:57   of us because I think Apple is fairly tolerant third-party developers having [TS]

00:31:03   to jump through hoops and fairly intolerant of their own people having to [TS]

00:31:07   jump through hoops oh yeah that's fair and as far as I know I don't think any [TS]

00:31:11   Apple app ever used Core Data Sync I'm pretty sure we never found what I needed [TS]

00:31:17   some people were treated like a strain on Twitter like you know what you're [TS]

00:31:20   going to be a political uses I don't think we ever found one but anyway I'm [TS]

00:31:25   confident and also you know I wouldn't necessarily like be honest a logic for [TS]

00:31:28   aperture because Apple has been a terrible steward of averages since the [TS]

00:31:31   beginning like it it always had delays issues it was always pretty buggy it [TS]

00:31:37   always had terrible performance there's a most of all just it would just go [TS]

00:31:41   years without any major updates and everything was always too little too [TS]

00:31:46   late it was always getting better soon and never actually great that's why [TS]

00:31:51   Lightroom does so well because Apple basically said hey we're gonna [TS]

00:31:56   Apple I think they basically invented the category of apps that work like this [TS]

00:32:00   basically I think I'm not sure about that please email Casey and then Adobe [TS]

00:32:07   Lightroom and just ate their lunch because they were generated so much [TS]

00:32:11   faster and it was so much better you know Apple really dunno aperture was [TS]

00:32:15   always pretty badly neglected so in a rose-colored glasses and everything I [TS]

00:32:19   don't think we're going to see people looking back in six months ago I really [TS]

00:32:22   miss aperture like I think so and for the few who do said I think they're [TS]

00:32:26   probably gonna be mister rendering it how could it actually was [TS]

00:32:32   I thought I saw someone might have been Jason snails review but I thought I saw [TS]

00:32:36   so many it loaded just a crud load images of pictures into the new Photos [TS]

00:32:41   app and they said you could scroll that thing at a solid 60 frames-per-second [TS]

00:32:45   like it was nothing I will be excited to see that if that's true that's why I [TS]

00:32:49   want to try to Mike I've gotta see this shit is so terrible I thought I have [TS]

00:32:52   maybe thirty forty maybe more than 40,000 photos fifty it may be that the [TS]

00:32:57   sixties anyway doesn't seem like that big number but i wanna see that's real [TS]

00:33:00   nicely we also spotted this week by X over each other as the best way I would [TS]

00:33:07   also however or all of those things however is the best way to biomedical [TS]

00:33:12   domain names go to hover dot com and you can get 10% off your first purchase by [TS]

00:33:16   using promo code slot toaster people slot toaster people when you have a [TS]

00:33:21   great idea you want agreed to maintain its catchy and memorable never gonna [TS]

00:33:25   give you exactly what you need to find the perfect roommate for your idea you [TS]

00:33:28   can get started actually working on it and I've mentioned before I guess I [TS]

00:33:31   haven't if I am working on a new project I I need to find a name first I can't [TS]

00:33:35   move forward without a name that's like that just block me until I get a name [TS]

00:33:38   and domain names are the very first thing I go search and whoever is great [TS]

00:33:42   for that gives you easy to use powerful tools to buy a minute remains so anybody [TS]

00:33:46   can do it and support team is always ready for you to hand they are known for [TS]

00:33:50   their no wait no hold no transfer phone service to you when you call a real-life [TS]

00:33:55   human being is ready to help pick up the phone that said they were at the ready [TS]

00:33:59   to help you don't put on hold or transfered to anybody that's it pick up [TS]

00:34:02   and help you it's amazing plus they have a great online tutorials and email [TS]

00:34:05   support if you hit the phone like me you can find new domain names that you want [TS]

00:34:09   to get up and running in less than five minutes all you do is type in a few key [TS]

00:34:13   words and however will show you the best available options across all tlds out [TS]

00:34:17   there now if you've ever used any other than any other two main house before you [TS]

00:34:21   know that it can be a pretty unpleasant experience a lot of these different [TS]

00:34:25   companies make it very complicated by just what you need a try to upsell you [TS]

00:34:29   with crazy stuff to make you pay extra to upgrade for things that really should [TS]

00:34:33   be included [TS]

00:34:34   however does not believe in this kind of approach instead of charging for [TS]

00:34:37   something that should just be there [TS]

00:34:38   includes everything you need your domain control panel yet whois privacy always [TS]

00:34:43   for free and you mean it supports it [TS]

00:34:45   they even offer this service called the valley transfer service and what they do [TS]

00:34:49   is if you will let them they will log into your own registrar and do any [TS]

00:34:53   transfers for you to transfer all your DNS and everything so it's all corrected [TS]

00:34:58   it very easy to get stuff for all your site's down for a few hours it sucks [TS]

00:35:01   they will log in and do it for you as you want because some registrars make it [TS]

00:35:05   pretty difficult to leave and of course they don't they also have this great [TS]

00:35:08   email service however has great solutions for your own custom email [TS]

00:35:12   address for your domain [TS]

00:35:13   20 bucks a year get you a fully functional gmail account and your Domain [TS]

00:35:17   with 10 gigs of storage you remember wen wen Gmail came out it was one gig was [TS]

00:35:22   like a 2004 and that was revolutionary to have a gigabyte don't know could ever [TS]

00:35:27   use that much well we do and have her in our first 10 gigs a year for just 20 [TS]

00:35:32   bucks now if you need more than that for just $29 a year you can get the big [TS]

00:35:37   mailbox that she wouldn't call it called big mailbox that gets you a terabyte of [TS]

00:35:40   storage plus weather nice bonus of $29 a year gets you a mailbox that can hold a [TS]

00:35:45   terabyte of email which I think sound like my personal hell they even have [TS]

00:35:49   enough for 25 bucks years you can keep using if you already have an email [TS]

00:35:53   account somewhere else like that whatever you can keep using that for [TS]

00:35:56   just five bucks here that will forward your email for your domain to anywhere [TS]

00:35:59   you want anyway all this is great you can get 10% off your first purchase [TS]

00:36:02   recover ago another dot-com and use promo code slot toaster people all one [TS]

00:36:08   word slot toaster people thanks a lot to hover for sponsoring our show once again [TS]

00:36:12   so there was a little bit of a surprise within the Photos app and some people [TS]

00:36:19   went spelunking I'm assuming it was Steve Smith is that right Stephen Smith [TS]

00:36:24   i sorry but that guy and we have day he they someone has discovered you execute [TS]

00:36:31   it so you ask it appears to be kinda UI kit for the Mac market you want to talk [TS]

00:36:39   about this little bit yes so it's it's a private framework that is used only by [TS]

00:36:44   the photos at the moment that Apple shipped with the photos at beta and it [TS]

00:36:48   appears you know you can't no ones like disassembly I think that you can class [TS]

00:36:52   dumping you can kind of see just like what classes and methods are contained [TS]

00:36:56   within it [TS]

00:36:56   from there to see runtime it's not just for us by the way people say that Xcode [TS]

00:37:01   6.3 bit also uses that's interesting if that's true I didn't know that it is a [TS]

00:37:06   tweet from Dunn Mary saying that both easy enough to confirm that interesting [TS]

00:37:12   well anyway so and what it appears to be is a subset of you I take it to the MAC [TS]

00:37:19   and so there are things just like it with the UI prefix replaced with you X [TS]

00:37:25   and so there's things like you know you acting like a UX navigation controller [TS]

00:37:28   and stuff like that and you know those UX color aux fan all this like normally [TS]

00:37:34   between you I can the iphone after on the Mac there are a lot of big [TS]

00:37:38   differences but a lot of also get a little superficial differences like the [TS]

00:37:42   the prefix for for you I can just you are the perfect record is an S and so [TS]

00:37:47   you have some classes like you I color and a scholar and UIImage vs and its [TS]

00:37:53   image and many of these classes that have these like superficial name [TS]

00:37:56   differences aren't that different or the the Mac version supports some ancient [TS]

00:38:01   stuff that no one will use anymore so you might use them so there's there's a [TS]

00:38:07   lot of overlap that seems trivial and that and many people have written will [TS]

00:38:12   see macros or utility classes to to have a unified code base share some of the [TS]

00:38:18   scope between iOS and Mac more easily so this appears to be apples apples version [TS]

00:38:24   of this on this one at in this one team where this is their translation layer to [TS]

00:38:29   have the same code probably did the same code running on iOS and Mac so the [TS]

00:38:35   question is is it just this one team is it just a small nap or is this gonna be [TS]

00:38:40   a more widespread thing is going to become public and is is this going to be [TS]

00:38:44   the new unified UI framework to the you can share a lot more cookies when I was [TS]

00:38:48   silence and Mac that's all basically nobody knows anything about perhaps just [TS]

00:38:53   speculating but that's that's why this is interesting what do you think [TS]

00:38:58   English had a good point and it's the analogy today came to my daughter as [TS]

00:39:02   well so [TS]

00:39:03   setting aside a texaco 6.3 also appears to use it according to the sweet guy [TS]

00:39:09   pointed out [TS]

00:39:10   pro-kit that framework remember that yeah the pro apps logic and everything [TS]

00:39:14   amateur logic what are the other apps that use that maybe maybe shake was not [TS]

00:39:21   final cut mouth may be fun anyway [TS]

00:39:23   a whole bunch of Apple's App Store look different like the window chrome was [TS]

00:39:26   different it was darker and sometimes it was smaller and they had they had their [TS]

00:39:29   own little weird set of controls and everything they use pro-kit framework [TS]

00:39:33   which was you know a framework shared among Apple applications that gave a [TS]

00:39:39   different UI and I mean I simply wasn't just looking at the point is that it was [TS]

00:39:44   a framework that was not republicans that Apple used on multiple applications [TS]

00:39:50   that never became the future get rite so the idea that you ask it could just be a [TS]

00:39:56   thing that Apple uses internally to make it applications this is a completely [TS]

00:40:00   viable idea it's not crazy to think well now once they did you actually like you [TS]

00:40:05   could apple also does the opposite day they take frameworks that use them [TS]

00:40:09   privately for a release or two and then make them public rights and now we can't [TS]

00:40:13   tell whether this is going to be one of those things that use private incomes [TS]

00:40:16   public or is it just another probe kit that will Apple used internally to make [TS]

00:40:20   it slightly easier when it makes it out of its applications but it is not the [TS]

00:40:23   future of making you i SAT there is some debate around this from smart [TS]

00:40:28   programmers who are saying like look you really don't want to have the unified [TS]

00:40:32   framework because the Mac and iOS UI wise are different and the very low [TS]

00:40:38   level stuff the Foundation Classes that's like the data structures the [TS]

00:40:41   networking stuff like that that all is unified already and what's namely not is [TS]

00:40:47   UI stuff and there is a great argument to be made there many people have made [TS]

00:40:52   that you know that should be separate because like just pouring an iOS app [TS]

00:40:57   directly to Mac and using a lot of the iOS interface paradigm is like [TS]

00:41:01   navigation controllers and things like that doesn't really work well in the Mac [TS]

00:41:05   it's it's really not that kind of a waste of what the Mac is good at and it [TS]

00:41:08   just kind of feels like you're clicking and iPad app basically things like [TS]

00:41:12   election views like the fancy I [TS]

00:41:14   like to use that sort of reflow themselves and you know or even just [TS]

00:41:18   like a better table of you may know they've approved table you getting rid [TS]

00:41:21   of an esoteric like those type of things kind of span the range I mean they might [TS]

00:41:25   still have Wii dpi is like you know touches begin inside so it's like what [TS]

00:41:29   do you mean like what you have to say is this this framework exists and the class [TS]

00:41:35   names make you think it's very UIKit like why would Apple bother making this [TS]

00:41:39   into the photos out the obvious answer to me is the photos for the Mac App [TS]

00:41:43   looks like voters for iOS right down to assuming out and seeing that John grid [TS]

00:41:48   of like photos for this month a week or year like it is very clearly a [TS]

00:41:53   magnification of the iOS totals up so you I was you know ignoring the back end [TS]

00:41:58   an outsourced photos and everything like that so much it looks much more like hey [TS]

00:42:04   some imported by US Forest nachman anything like hey someone made a new [TS]

00:42:07   version of iPhoto like it is it is just so if you had the existing photos output [TS]

00:42:12   presumably uses you like it and you wanted to make a Mac version of that [TS]

00:42:17   being able to reuse if not that code correctly then like that code indirectly [TS]

00:42:23   the structure of the program it would be really convenient to have something like [TS]

00:42:27   UX get where you can get the benefit of all that you I could code and you know [TS]

00:42:32   get some semblance of a Mac version up and running faster that doesn't answer [TS]

00:42:36   the question of why would be used in Xcode but historically Xcode is being [TS]

00:42:39   used [TS]

00:42:39   dog food all sorts of weird stuff like garbage collection and what was the [TS]

00:42:43   other one that it was doctor er think the dog park first anyway that could [TS]

00:42:48   also just be Xcode dog putting things because if you can experiment with a [TS]

00:42:51   technology leader in the application that developers to write programs [TS]

00:42:55   the argument of you should keep them separate is weekend when to start [TS]

00:43:01   looking at like what what things and I Westwood you not have on the Mac and [TS]

00:43:06   vice versa and I think that list is actually a lot smaller than than you [TS]

00:43:11   might expect if you're starting to make this argument and if you if you look [TS]

00:43:14   like you're having a collection of you that's that's applicable to both sooo [TS]

00:43:19   many little components UI control UIImageView ImageView UILabel table you [TS]

00:43:25   text you so many of these things actually like there's not a great [TS]

00:43:30   argument that they shouldn't be the same on both it's really just a very high [TS]

00:43:33   level structures the very high level like navigation concepts navigation [TS]

00:43:38   layouts that kind of stuff should be different both but actually a very small [TS]

00:43:42   part of you like it in the grand scheme of things and you don't even know if we [TS]

00:43:46   don't really push new things like there's no reason you couldn't make him [TS]

00:43:50   a cap that in one of its Windows does a sort of you I navigation controller [TS]

00:43:54   thing of of pushing a new view on and popping and often I get maybe might be [TS]

00:43:58   weird but arguably a lot of the existing OS 10 apps do a lot of Iowa see type [TS]

00:44:04   thing to do and how I think messages has like buttons that are in buttons were [TS]

00:44:07   just colored text you know I think I played here if I didn't I I meant to [TS]

00:44:11   like there is like a details but the messages that is not a button and it [TS]

00:44:15   just blew texted you doing here but people accepted like alright whatever I [TS]

00:44:21   know when I click that I get details for certain certain interests as an iOS [TS]

00:44:26   programmer who doesn't know much about the Mac it would make me way more likely [TS]

00:44:30   to start tackling a Mac App if this was more consistent and I know like if I [TS]

00:44:35   just dive into the Mac and i really am committed to it I could work through you [TS]

00:44:39   get pretty well I could figure it out you know that's not like that's not the [TS]

00:44:43   only reason I'm making him a cap but it would definitely make me a lot more [TS]

00:44:47   likely to make him a cap and sooner and it would make it a smaller undertaking [TS]

00:44:51   if a lot of the stuff is unified and instead of having all these little [TS]

00:44:54   superficial differences something some small and that has to play in somewhat [TS]

00:45:00   to a decision you make to this like if Apple wants to encourage more Mac apps [TS]

00:45:04   if they want to you know populate the desolate awful landscape [TS]

00:45:09   of the Mac App Store which is really sad a lot of a lot of places if they want to [TS]

00:45:13   help populate that with with more better apps if they want to get more people [TS]

00:45:17   making Mac apps more people using the Mac for a lot of the stuff they have to [TS]

00:45:21   make it easier for developers like right now it's all the people who are saying [TS]

00:45:26   this shouldn't be unified are all longtime Mac programmers longtime iOS [TS]

00:45:32   programmers I think are very excited about this idea because they're you know [TS]

00:45:36   we look at the Mac as like well we could go here fairly easily but all this stuff [TS]

00:45:41   is needlessly different yeah like even if you made the core of your app like oh [TS]

00:45:47   it's all written in sort of early platform agnostic manner and it doesn't [TS]

00:45:51   really matter I'm using some framework with some both places like ordinary [TS]

00:45:54   something that you I part is like he said I go I just noticed but different [TS]

00:45:59   UI now but I'm not gonna say that the hard part but it's a surprising amount [TS]

00:46:02   of work and if you have to repeated and keep them in sync and every time you [TS]

00:46:05   want to add a feature you have to add in both places but totally different code [TS]

00:46:08   using different APS is just it's a lot of extra work I'm not sure you ask it [TS]

00:46:13   makes it you know [TS]

00:46:15   lowers the barrier enough to really move the needle on the Mac App Store has it [TS]

00:46:20   has other problems you know just so this so few Mac users like I think you have [TS]

00:46:25   to really make it a little barrier for some of my can address the market like [TS]

00:46:28   hundreds of millions of iOS devices or like a couple of Mac people like is like [TS]

00:46:34   250 what you like it so the iPhone is such a monster and that's just one iOS [TS]

00:46:40   device compared to the Mac right but [TS]

00:46:42   if this was their goal like their long-term goals like we're going to dogs [TS]

00:46:46   with this we're gonna see if it's possible because we have a bunch of iOS [TS]

00:46:49   app so we've decided this is the right way to do photos wu's you mountains to [TS]

00:46:53   everything is a big thing you put your finger in your cursor over and see you [TS]

00:46:57   know that the future photos we are you wrote that can we just get the run the [TS]

00:47:02   Mac well no because XY and Z and well okay so we have a job to do we can use [TS]

00:47:06   USB framework to be the first people to try to do that but Apple has way more [TS]

00:47:10   resources to throw toward the successor to iPhoto than the average you know [TS]

00:47:14   developer with an iOS app you might be thinking about making him a cap so if [TS]

00:47:19   Apple runs this experiment decides boy this really make sporting much easier [TS]

00:47:23   than what do they do about it they just say like how how how would they assume [TS]

00:47:27   that this is accessible experiment inside a plan assumes that the goal of [TS]

00:47:30   it was see it as something that developers might want for the reasons [TS]

00:47:33   that Marco stated how does Apple than a WEC announced this as a thing and help [TS]

00:47:40   like what is the messaging it's like So You Think me right back at if you have [TS]

00:47:44   an iOS version then look at you excuse you could reuse lot of that same code [TS]

00:47:48   changing over to capitalize to capitol axes or something but otherwise use at [TS]

00:47:53   Couture is a message like this is the future of writing that complications it [TS]

00:47:57   just happens to look like the iOS one but even if you never write an iOS Mac [TS]

00:48:01   were telling you you should use your Mac apps [TS]

00:48:04   well I think if they actually unified it it would just be called you like it [TS]

00:48:08   everywhere but that's the direction they would go today would work from iOS back [TS]

00:48:13   to the Mac and they would they would just bring over everything named UIKit [TS]

00:48:17   that makes sense to have and also you know one of the things they would have [TS]

00:48:21   here is right now they're maintaining two different frameworks their meanings [TS]

00:48:25   to different UI libraries and and after it is very very old and there's a lot of [TS]

00:48:31   Crofton there from the olden days you like it was like kind of like a rewrite [TS]

00:48:36   of app for the iPhone and to be more modern into Bmore in a more efficient [TS]

00:48:42   and [TS]

00:48:43   have all these new capabilities and be simpler in a lot of ways UI kit is like [TS]

00:48:47   it is the rethink of activities the rewrite about it they just didn't [TS]

00:48:51   replace it with a quite yet they were going to call you I could everywhere [TS]

00:48:55   that is not comment because like the code is not the same like he led to [TS]

00:49:00   believe is more or less just a wraparound existing to begin with and [TS]

00:49:04   maybe they would like that out later but I don't think you can pull it up as you [TS]

00:49:08   have to maintain support bracket prolong the future right so linking against the [TS]

00:49:13   they called it [TS]

00:49:15   UIKit you couldn't linking against framework if like if one set of code is [TS]

00:49:21   like the native code for the iOS devices in another set of code is the the [TS]

00:49:26   wraparound a kid I don't know how you could do that with the same name it [TS]

00:49:29   seems like it like that the reason the exit there like it just doesn't make [TS]

00:49:33   sense to me like every time it's not going to be a single unified code base [TS]

00:49:36   is going to be two separate code bases and two separate code bases with the [TS]

00:49:40   same name and to plan and I suppose you could put up his best to Kaiser in [TS]

00:49:43   different folders you know this is the iOS SDK and the cable guy just looks [TS]

00:49:46   like looking at documentation for like surely they will be differences so I [TS]

00:49:51   don't like messaging wise though that's what we'll get those after the next [TS]

00:49:55   month but that is a weird message at like at kit we've been evolving and [TS]

00:50:01   improving for a long time but now you know it's like i was wonder that when [TS]

00:50:06   they bought next like how long the NSP fix what I want to do they keep the ANS [TS]

00:50:11   prefix and everything is kind of weird and its next step like water off one [TS]

00:50:14   glass of NSB tons of people just starting out programming for the Mac [TS]

00:50:19   wondering what that was described as about but it's held on for a [TS]

00:50:23   surprisingly long time right and [TS]

00:50:25   you know they get out from under and they are right this is the new thing we [TS]

00:50:30   call it [TS]

00:50:31   UX kiddin maybe in the future of a unified before now we have you are [TS]

00:50:35   getting your ex kid and I still think they were there will be stuck [TS]

00:50:39   maintaining three things at a packet on top of a kid and you like it like so it [TS]

00:50:45   wouldn't be maybe long-term its unification but i dont the messaging [TS]

00:50:50   just seems weird to me that's fair but maintenance the message and I'll think [TS]

00:50:54   that matter I mean look they have two languages now well but one of them is [TS]

00:50:58   one of them is clearly a successor to the other belongings and by the way a [TS]

00:51:02   lot of people are speculating that UX kid might be swift lonelier swift native [TS]

00:51:07   I think I think we can already tell it's not just by inspecting the the file [TS]

00:51:13   everything but if you look at the the timing of this put the Photos app was [TS]

00:51:18   introduced at the same time as with beta 1 when Swift beta one was announced at [TS]

00:51:23   the BBC last year [TS]

00:51:25   very few people inside Apple had even used it yet so I think it's extremely [TS]

00:51:29   unlikely if there's any swift code in the photos as well there's probably some [TS]

00:51:34   that's the way they would but I don't think it's written from the ground up in [TS]

00:51:38   sweats and I think you're right to like this is a directive see framework which [TS]

00:51:42   is you can call through to the objectives the remarks on that half of [TS]

00:51:45   the stuff they did him Swift 1.2 which team talked about with making it less [TS]

00:51:49   painful less awkward to interoperate between certain objective seized up by [TS]

00:51:53   adding annotations the markup and a boy missing is marking up with all his own [TS]

00:51:58   objectives CBI's with all these annotations the mean nothing to [TS]

00:52:00   Objective C but totally let you know how it needs to write the data quest to be [TS]

00:52:04   exactly and I think that's that's the biggest as anything that like Objective [TS]

00:52:09   C is not going to go away like two years from now this is gonna be a very [TS]

00:52:13   long-term replacement it's in right now look look at how many Apple classes are [TS]

00:52:19   still using C++ as there has so many people that I don't think we have to [TS]

00:52:26   worry anytime soon the difference is gonna be just ended well I mean like you [TS]

00:52:30   could be ended in the in the sense that they tell you when you're writing your [TS]

00:52:33   application the only code you ever I dismissed because you could get away [TS]

00:52:36   with that it's like I'm not limit [TS]

00:52:38   I can call the existing frameworks and API's I can call them all from right and [TS]

00:52:43   I can do weird seats last up to ISO you could say third-party developers if [TS]

00:52:47   you're starting a fresh new application in opening a new project in Xcode right [TS]

00:52:52   all your code swift and you'll be fine like they're not yet but that's like the [TS]

00:52:55   way they want to get on that point to come way before she goes that's going to [TS]

00:53:00   take forever like the actual people at Apple again running ejector seat for a [TS]

00:53:03   long time but they could be telling all third-party developers we would like it [TS]

00:53:07   you just read all your code in swift and you won't be limited in which API's you [TS]

00:53:12   like the idea I guess with only a native API what's the selling point of that [TS]

00:53:18   other than like it [TS]

00:53:19   ideological purity a disappointment and even in the near future I don't you know [TS]

00:53:24   surely that they will come but unless there's some big advantage in terms of [TS]

00:53:29   speed or interface it's going to be difficult to justify bigger than you be [TS]

00:53:33   cutting off all the people of existing Objective C at a lot of them yet and yes [TS]

00:53:37   I would I would not expect a swift exclusive API for anything important to [TS]

00:53:43   be available in the next two years at least I mean I think it'll be awhile [TS]

00:53:47   likes to move fast they like to like it sooner than I expected I didn't think [TS]

00:53:53   you know and that they will probably do something important when they decide to [TS]

00:53:57   do it but it seems like it's just way too soon now so it probably means that [TS]

00:54:00   whatever your esther was two years like maybe cut that in half like they had no [TS]

00:54:03   prizes for its like you know the way the herd everybody into whatever new thing [TS]

00:54:09   they want to do is like the new hotness is only available with X [TS]

00:54:13   and yeah but none of his first of all not necessarily on this level of the [TS]

00:54:18   language level of what you're doing with the API level not necessarily on that [TS]

00:54:21   level and also I think the last time they did that like with what was it with [TS]

00:54:25   carbon let me do that now that the best example i think is how you can't build [TS]

00:54:30   applications for older versions with the newest version of Xcode they want to [TS]

00:54:35   push everybody the newest version of Xcode and that's why people have to keep [TS]

00:54:37   at seven bridges road running an old machines like they're like you can't [TS]

00:54:42   even target you know Snow Leopard anymore with this thing like they [TS]

00:54:45   they're pushing people up there [TS]

00:54:47   OS support change forcibly by saying look here and add that this is the only [TS]

00:54:51   way you can develop for the iPhone 5 but you can't developer Snow Leopard with it [TS]

00:54:55   so you know those people keeping the GMC Engine version of Xcode availed SDKs [TS]

00:55:00   that Apple aggressively pushing people way too fast like way soon as people are [TS]

00:55:04   running p.m. with over 20 yd you know you're going to that that is a very [TS]

00:55:09   common thing that people to yeah actually a lot of developers need to do [TS]

00:55:12   that I think it'll be sooner I tend to come down on this closer john's point of [TS]

00:55:17   view the marcos I think the push to Swift is going to be more aggressive in [TS]

00:55:21   sooner than any of us expect I think I'm on the edge I almost want to say [TS]

00:55:28   something will be swift specific or this year maybe at the end of the year I [TS]

00:55:35   think perhaps it's more reasonable to say sometime in 2016 but I think it'll [TS]

00:55:39   be soon be really soon and certainly Swift is making some some really [TS]

00:55:46   significant steps and doing so very quickly when I keep thinking is the dose [TS]

00:55:51   which is supposed to make a lot of the dangers of Objective C go away and that [TS]

00:55:57   that that of course causing a lot of drama but maybe doubt in the community [TS]

00:56:04   especially amongst those who have worked with ejector seat for a long time but I [TS]

00:56:08   think I think that if if swift prevents really silly programming errors and if [TS]

00:56:15   it's a little more stable eventually and it runs faster eventually it's in [TS]

00:56:20   Apple's best interest push everyone that direction and and I think they will and [TS]

00:56:24   I think they'll do so real [TS]

00:56:25   aggressively yeah but I think most the drama is already really fizzling out and [TS]

00:56:33   I think you know it's it's only a matter it's only a couple more sleep provisions [TS]

00:56:37   I mean look at how much they did at one point it was a pretty substantial [TS]

00:56:40   upgrade in a lot of ways and I don't even use yet but i can tell just by [TS]

00:56:45   looking at what they changed and other people's reactions to its a pretty [TS]

00:56:47   substantial upgrade I read a bunch of these blog posts lately switched our big [TS]

00:56:52   project too swift we built a big project in swift and here's how it went and an [TS]

00:56:56   overall it seems to be people are kind of mostly ok with the language itself [TS]

00:57:04   with a few minor minor differences here and there but most things itself but [TS]

00:57:08   they have complained that the tools are are immature still that's working itself [TS]

00:57:12   out pretty quickly really I mean like they had a compilation which was [TS]

00:57:16   probably the biggest complaint in its absence before you know it in less than [TS]

00:57:21   a year Apple has already eliminated almost everyone they've limited most [TS]

00:57:27   major there's still some minor complaints and there's still some people [TS]

00:57:31   who really objective certain things about it that will never change but for [TS]

00:57:35   the most part they've they've already addressed many many good complaints [TS]

00:57:40   about it in less than a year and then moving really fast like they're making [TS]

00:57:43   big big breaking changes almost so much like it's frustrating like reading the [TS]

00:57:48   documentation for the language and trying to learn the language just at the [TS]

00:57:51   point you think you're actually learning things they change it I just learned how [TS]

00:57:55   are totally different again and like they don't do it like in mind there are [TS]

00:57:58   minor with big fundamental just wait until they had exceptions and regular [TS]

00:58:03   expressions people's brains gonna explode right this is why I haven't [TS]

00:58:06   learned it yet this language is moving fast and just 1.2 was a big change like [TS]

00:58:13   well I program got five times faster and I didn't change anything and you know my [TS]

00:58:17   compiled times it like it's still super young think it's probably still super [TS]

00:58:22   buggy and they've got a long way to go but like I think the inclination to [TS]

00:58:26   think well its young now and there's these big changes but the rate of change [TS]

00:58:29   will slow down I expected to like to not slow down to make people uncomfortable [TS]

00:58:34   with the amount that it doesn't slow down the next couple of years like [TS]

00:58:38   certain point it's going to be kind of like you know the change your teeth with [TS]

00:58:41   the OS like alright already like my annoyances with whatever features and [TS]

00:58:46   swift are now dwarfed by my noise that you keep changing the language we [TS]

00:58:51   understand you could hear addressing all of our problems in trying to make things [TS]

00:58:54   better than I just wanted to be stable so I can write some code be like [TS]

00:58:57   actually know the language that's that's going to happen in like eight months if [TS]

00:59:00   they keep up this pace yeah hopefully I mean the guy you know I said like last [TS]

00:59:04   year I was gonna wait about a year before even looked at it and so far [TS]

00:59:07   that's that's working out very well I can see in passing other making all [TS]

00:59:12   these big changes but I have no investment in it I i haven't even read [TS]

00:59:16   the the apples with book hitting the books for free I have you read that it's [TS]

00:59:19   because every page of it has changed [TS]

00:59:22   kinda like and so I'd rather just wait until it settles down at least most of [TS]

00:59:27   the way and I would expect within the next couple years I think it will be [TS]

00:59:32   pretty stable even in a year from now I think the reason I think it'll ever [TS]

00:59:38   released a list like built into his language is the idea that the language [TS]

00:59:42   and backward there's no backwards compatibility their entire path forward [TS]

00:59:47   we'll see how this works is that like the idea is going to update your source [TS]

00:59:50   code like they're not going to support with 1.0 1.1 wonder you know like the [TS]

00:59:55   source like I wrote this in swift 1.0 and I'm gonna be able to compile an [TS]

00:59:59   Xcode 9 many years and I know you won't know you can do about it now but their [TS]

01:00:04   whole strategy is sourced compatibility forget I mean maybe they'll change their [TS]

01:00:08   policy like that's when it comes to the maturing point is that ok now the new [TS]

01:00:10   policy is actually respect the same source code require you to like you know [TS]

01:00:15   you sorry factoring tools to upgrade to send texts but they're not in that phase [TS]

01:00:19   yet they were in the phase it says we told you were gonna break syntex [TS]

01:00:22   compatibility we are going to we're never going to compile years [TS]

01:00:25   1.0 and Wednesday anymore so just get used to it but our greatest with 1.2 and [TS]

01:00:30   by the way 1.3 will do the same thing to you [TS]

01:00:32   our final budget this week is automatic your smart driving system on your [TS]

01:00:37   smartphone automatic dot com slash ATP so automatic is a little darling plugs [TS]

01:00:43   into your car's obd2 port is the same port the user at the mechanics are the [TS]

01:00:48   dealers with a check for error codes it's usually in the driver's footwell [TS]

01:00:52   automatic plugs into that and so all the information that the dealers can get and [TS]

01:00:55   the mechanics can get out of your car automatically get a smartphone app that [TS]

01:00:59   integrates with this and does cool stuff so one thing it does so whether this [TS]

01:01:03   works on iPhones and Android phones which is pretty great and it can show [TS]

01:01:08   you by combining the smarts in your car with the smarts in your phone it shows [TS]

01:01:12   you things like where you've driven and how efficiently you drive give you [TS]

01:01:17   feedback on your driving in real time they can save hundreds of dollars a year [TS]

01:01:21   on gas they can even call emergency services for free in a serious crash so [TS]

01:01:26   if your car if your car crashes and your phone you know is that all workable it [TS]

01:01:31   can use your phone to call emergency services for you just can't really [TS]

01:01:34   seriously you know be a better fit here [TS]

01:01:37   automatic also conducting any check engine light codes so because it's an [TS]

01:01:42   airport that all the mechanic use if there's any kind of area code that [TS]

01:01:45   causes the check the check engine light to come on the car will act in the car [TS]

01:01:49   has a lower level error code than that it's just not showing you could you just [TS]

01:01:52   lacks the display for that that's why she says check engine but usually [TS]

01:01:56   there's some lower-level could a lot of those codes are really obvious things [TS]

01:01:59   that you can fix things like the gas cap isn't sealed all the way you know stuff [TS]

01:02:03   like that you can just fix it yourself or you know minor parts spots you can do [TS]

01:02:07   you know you can go to a mechanic instead of going all the way to the [TS]

01:02:09   dealer paid all this money so it can save you lots of money but check engine [TS]

01:02:12   light codes it can give you lots of money saving on gas called emergency [TS]

01:02:17   services for free in a crash and it even has little useful things like party [TS]

01:02:21   reminders again it's combining your car with your phone so it knows where you [TS]

01:02:25   parked and you can use the log cabin your phone to go find your car again [TS]

01:02:29   even if integration with a few different things so they integrate with the Nest [TS]

01:02:34   Learning Thermostat so for example if you're going if your headed home and [TS]

01:02:38   nest has you in a way modes your house is cold in the winter [TS]

01:02:41   automatic knows you're getting close to your home so it will tell the next term [TS]

01:02:45   he dog [TS]

01:02:46   and so then by the time you get home your house is nice and warm for your [TS]

01:02:49   arrival and even if you don't have a nest they have integration with ifttt if [TS]

01:02:54   this than that so what that integration you can integrate countless other online [TS]

01:02:58   services with your automatic device so it's really great that is also an API [TS]

01:03:02   you can download driving data you can subscribe to events when you start and [TS]

01:03:06   stop the car when you when your check engine light comes on etcetera as a [TS]

01:03:09   whole epi for use whatever you want and if you have an Android phone even have a [TS]

01:03:13   feature called do not disturb mode so that if you want you can have it [TS]

01:03:17   automatically mute your phone like buzzing or beeping while you're driving [TS]

01:03:20   so you don't get distracted by the notifications of great stuff here [TS]

01:03:24   automatic dot com slash ATP and this is normally about a hundred bucks is no [TS]

01:03:29   subscription fees this is one time up front just a hundred bucks there is no [TS]

01:03:34   monthly fee you can buy the device that's it [TS]

01:03:37   now there's a special offer for the podcast listeners 20% off so are you [TS]

01:03:41   guys going I dot com slash ATP it's just 80 bucks twice 20% off so just 80 bucks [TS]

01:03:48   free shipping in just two business days and have a 45 day return policy this is [TS]

01:03:54   really risk-free fantastic deal 80 bucks free shipping in two days at a 45 day [TS]

01:04:00   return policy [TS]

01:04:01   automatic dot com slash ATP thanks a lot in speaking of different way is already [TS]

01:04:09   a user interfaces a couple of things have happened over the last weeks or [TS]

01:04:13   months that listeners have asked us to talk about and first actually might have [TS]

01:04:19   been a year ago now is a seng display kit do you want to tell us about that [TS]

01:04:22   john yeah I was talking about you execute has like the idea of his [TS]

01:04:28   successor to a kidnapping has this crafted you like it you know learn [TS]

01:04:32   format get into things better which is why it seems nice to do things you like [TS]

01:04:36   it but it is a nap get everything [TS]

01:04:38   and display kit and topically director about react reactive rather point to [TS]

01:04:48   sort of a larger leap above the both the apt in the UIKit paradigm particularly [TS]

01:04:54   having to do with the requirements that certain things only be done on the main [TS]

01:04:59   thread laying out the UI drawing there some acceptance of that or you can try [TS]

01:05:03   to some of those things off the main thread but generally that leads to [TS]

01:05:06   sadness know what you doing and that's a limitation kind of built into the [TS]

01:05:13   framework a framework that if you trace its lineage through you know step in [TS]

01:05:17   next step could go way back in time [TS]

01:05:19   made sense when you didn't have a multi-core CPU in your little hand-held [TS]

01:05:23   crazy phone not symmetric multiprocessing was barely people's eyes [TS]

01:05:28   back then forget about these 12 core CPUs and everything like that but the [TS]

01:05:34   reality is that we do have a multicore and everything and even if you just [TS]

01:05:38   offload some of that work to another Corey can be a big dent benefit so I [TS]

01:05:43   think this lake is a thing I think Facebook made for like its applications [TS]

01:05:47   that paper application where they wanted to lay out calculations just baseman [TS]

01:05:52   matt Asay how wide is this how much is it gonna take a bottle blah and they [TS]

01:05:56   wanted to do it in parallel not on the main threat because they didn't want to [TS]

01:05:59   block the main thread they want the main threat to be available to pick up events [TS]

01:06:02   and process them and make the UI reactive printed anything and so amazing [TS]

01:06:10   display kit which is a thing on top of a packet that lets you do you i'd [TS]

01:06:16   calculations the end asynchronously and possibly in parallel and other threads [TS]

01:06:22   and then do it in a nice way so that the actual addy gets done on the main threat [TS]

01:06:26   as it has to work with the thing but you can actually do the calculations [TS]

01:06:29   elsewhere and that's what makes me look at you X didn't think like this can't [TS]

01:06:35   really be the future of anything it seems like an interim step because [TS]

01:06:38   I would want to see a leap like you like it wasn't a step up from a tip it was [TS]

01:06:42   kind of like more like a cleaned up after you put it didn't it didn't [TS]

01:06:46   revisit some fundamental assumptions in light of the hardware realities that we [TS]

01:06:51   have today and I think something like something been incorporated something [TS]

01:06:55   like icing display get into the fabric of the framework would be much better [TS]

01:06:59   than someone taking a bitter UIKit and layering another framework on top of the [TS]

01:07:03   dolls stuffed other threats yessuey Singh display kit was most gained most [TS]

01:07:10   of its fame I guess from paper which was is an app that Facebook wrote as a kind [TS]

01:07:18   of alternative to their traditional Facebook app and it's actually the app [TS]

01:07:23   that I used my phone because it's freaking supports sending messages which [TS]

01:07:26   is nice to have a separate app for that anyway it's very pretty and the [TS]

01:07:31   animations are very cool and it's very nice and that indexing to spike it [TS]

01:07:35   powers it now [TS]

01:07:37   lately Facebook has taken a different purpose react native is Facebook making [TS]

01:07:42   that up here right now I will just assume I'm right why not email me and [TS]

01:07:48   tell me if I'm wrong anyway so you react native is also my Facebook and react [TS]

01:07:54   originated as at least to my knowledge as a javascript front-end framework kind [TS]

01:08:02   of sort of but not really tall like angular and then somebody facebook said [TS]

01:08:06   well you know what we could do something on the natives side with this in so [TS]

01:08:14   there's an unbelievably good video that then I had seen by way any material Shaq [TS]

01:08:20   who has been coming up a lot lately on the show and it's it's an overview by [TS]

01:08:26   one of the developers of react native at Facebook talking about how it works and [TS]

01:08:31   kind of what it does and I have watched it for a week or two since the one ever [TS]

01:08:36   came out and so i i cant really get into specifics because all steers into a [TS]

01:08:40   black hole of in correctness [TS]

01:08:42   but some of the stuff that it does was just unreal including being able to mess [TS]

01:08:48   about with your UI without doing another built in so you can have your app [TS]

01:08:54   running in the simulator or around with some stuff in Xcode and it will refresh [TS]

01:09:01   itself in the simulator without recompiling and additionally you could [TS]

01:09:04   actually connect chrome you the app the running out publicly talked about I [TS]

01:09:10   think last episode with with web use but this is the web you this is all real [TS]

01:09:15   honest-to-goodness needed stuff and so you can connect chrome may have some [TS]

01:09:19   sort of interpreter connector whatever you can connect chrome to your native [TS]

01:09:24   app running react native in go inspecting it kind of like what was the [TS]

01:09:29   third party thing that got Sherlock this year [TS]

01:09:31   thinking of the things that exploded views but yet so it's kinda somewhere to [TS]

01:09:35   that end I guess I haven't played with it yet but just watching this half an [TS]

01:09:40   hour video my mind exploded probably fifteen times reveal thank you [TS]

01:09:45   chat room it was revealed that i was thinkin thank you [TS]

01:09:51   person in the chatroom arias she that's totally wrong anyway this video is [TS]

01:09:57   really really incredible and and Marcos special scenes nevermind so you're in my [TS]

01:10:06   defense I did spend all day today making the making of a good program so I I was [TS]

01:10:11   in this century ok well that's good I would like to hear about that if we have [TS]

01:10:15   time but John what are your thoughts on this react needed thing have you don't [TS]

01:10:18   react the JavaScript framework at all I retweeted it thing from making joke like [TS]

01:10:24   a sign that the W three see it was one of those [TS]

01:10:28   there have been blank days since the new JavaScript framework ahead 0 like I'm [TS]

01:10:36   pretty sure I know reactors and it seemed like the jobs corporation for web [TS]

01:10:40   applications you can correct me if I'm wrong case against you watch the thing [TS]

01:10:44   is I have not yet the reactors the one where they do [TS]

01:10:47   where they have all is that the one where they have like the DOM sort of as [TS]

01:10:52   a structure not actually connected to the dominate your differing against the [TS]

01:10:55   to figure out what actually needs to be updated in that ends up being faster [TS]

01:10:58   it's like yep it's one of those crazy solutions that has to do with it it's [TS]

01:11:02   not shattered on crystal separate thing and web components are related but it's [TS]

01:11:06   like you would think it would be so much slower to build these parallel [TS]

01:11:11   structures in memory that aren't that dumb and then figure out what the [TS]

01:11:15   changes are by differing it again something else and then and then only at [TS]

01:11:19   the end after you've done this crazy dipping thing and just add memory [TS]

01:11:22   structures that have no connection to the browser do you say now finally I [TS]

01:11:25   know what I have to update in the damn you do the minimal but updating the [TS]

01:11:29   dumbest so damn slow the doing the differing ends up being way faster than [TS]

01:11:32   doing it like you know direct way it's worth pointing out also the football [TS]

01:11:37   thing and on this topic for Flipboard came out it was yesterday and the day [TS]

01:11:41   before is very recent and they they launched a web version and in their [TS]

01:11:46   engineering department posted this whole thing how they're basically doing a a [TS]

01:11:50   react like differing system in the middle of this whole system rather [TS]

01:11:55   basically he rewrote part of WebKit that just runs on a canvas [TS]

01:11:59   it's a very small part but still make on a web version but scarecrows around the [TS]

01:12:05   web because once your entire just a big canvas tag but you draw stuff in with [TS]

01:12:09   your own framework like yeah I guess that's the web like you've just [TS]

01:12:12   reinvented ActiveX controls like you know that that's terrible it's really [TS]

01:12:17   insulting or not it's a difference if we start with the / like the web is we know [TS]

01:12:23   that the web is and anything that is a rectangle in a web page in which some of [TS]

01:12:27   the program runs is not the web and canvases like the borderline of like [TS]

01:12:32   well is that the web is it like you've written you know yes you have a nice [TS]

01:12:37   display larry and you could do everything yourself and they're not [TS]

01:12:41   they're doing everything else would like to point out in terms of like [TS]

01:12:45   accessibility of a canvas native application like unless you're signing [TS]

01:12:50   up to [TS]

01:12:50   re-employment you know you like it around with all the accessibility things [TS]

01:12:54   that are inherent there and support for it strikes me a lot as a big rectangle [TS]

01:12:59   webpage whether things happen which may be fine for Flipboard but I don't think [TS]

01:13:03   it's that's right but the act is more like I'm we're going to take the web as [TS]

01:13:09   it exists just going to find out a nicer way for you to write application fees [TS]

01:13:12   for what they think it's a nice way to react as some weird stuff going on you [TS]

01:13:18   know they they violated they sort of sacrifice a lot of sacred cows they're [TS]

01:13:21   the big things I think also where they like UNIX JavaScript handlers in line [TS]

01:13:27   with these fake things look like tags but really aren't in freaks people out [TS]

01:13:30   by the looks like you're doing like the old style on mouseover Eagles whatever [TS]

01:13:33   but you're not really because that's not actually da markup is just a way to [TS]

01:13:36   communicate with their like there's a lot of weird things about react but i [TS]

01:13:41   think thats all beside the point because I think the important part of it is the [TS]

01:13:44   different model and it's a very different model frap continue like it [TS]

01:13:47   how to make a GUI applications and it's like well it that's for the web the web [TS]

01:13:52   so different than native it has to be different than react native is like but [TS]

01:13:56   if we take that same model and apply it to native things does that work is [TS]

01:14:01   actually better than using you I get around it and some people apparently [TS]

01:14:04   think it is i think the jury's still out on this new paradigm is the way to go [TS]

01:14:09   but I think this combined with a display kit show two different potentially [TS]

01:14:14   complementary approaches that are that show that are so different from getting [TS]

01:14:20   UIKit and UX get that it's like it makes you I continued acts get a napkin look [TS]

01:14:26   like Objective C 2.0 and it makes these things look like potentially swift or [TS]

01:14:30   something like it I just feel like there's a bigger lead to be had and I [TS]

01:14:34   would recommend an apple not invest some huge amount of time unit making pushing [TS]

01:14:40   some unified you I could you acted type of thing for the future because that [TS]

01:14:43   transition will take a long time and you don't know what you've got is basically [TS]

01:14:46   now everything is as good as you like it and you like it may be nice to not get [TS]

01:14:49   in important ways but it is not sort of a largely it's not as big a leap [TS]

01:14:56   potentially as big a leap as swift potentially is over Objective C like I'm [TS]

01:15:00   looking for the next big step as a refinement you have now make appt get [TS]

01:15:04   better as you've been doing the Qik better [TS]

01:15:06   as you've been doing and get busy working on whatever the next big thing [TS]

01:15:10   is and if it's something like react made of fine if it's something that [TS]

01:15:12   incorporates the ideas are facing display it on if you think you can [TS]

01:15:15   retrofit those WI kit and a ticket and let people do more things off the main [TS]

01:15:19   thread maybe try that too but you know and like I said this is my next couple [TS]

01:15:24   in 2010 type of thing but I do look at other frameworks and I'm not convinced [TS]

01:15:29   that they're the future but they look different enough from the president that [TS]

01:15:32   I'm interested in potential ideas for the future [TS]

01:15:35   yeah I agree I think if you're totally right that like if you're going to make [TS]

01:15:39   everyone do a big transition if there is this other thing that has come up like [TS]

01:15:44   you know in computer science you type circles and everyone thinks this is a [TS]

01:15:48   really great idea and it turns out of practice to really be really great idea [TS]

01:15:51   it is definitely worth considering like you know he is it worth like if you're [TS]

01:15:55   gonna for people to go through a transition to make a bigger leap like [TS]

01:15:57   swift you know it's not even like computer science you like just [TS]

01:16:00   recognizing the hardware hardware so different now [TS]

01:16:03   frameworks we have are not a good match for everything being multicore because [TS]

01:16:06   it because of the main threat constraints and GCD helps that a lot [TS]

01:16:10   like he does help it for you I code it doesn't help things like certain things [TS]

01:16:13   you only you have to do on the main thread or bad things happen and so [TS]

01:16:17   that's like the basics like it it's like we're going to hang around that [TS]

01:16:20   limitation of Apple's frameworks and say you just sit there will actually do the [TS]

01:16:25   UI updates on the main thread but we're going to do a whole bunch other math [TS]

01:16:28   over here in our sort of play world and saying the reactor sort of play World of [TS]

01:16:32   this is not the UI but this is our little fake model of the UI so we can [TS]

01:16:37   actually take advantage of parallel processing and then we'll get back to [TS]

01:16:40   you with I actually you are now your actual done please do this change and [TS]

01:16:44   that is that is happy and clever but it shows that the current frameworks are [TS]

01:16:49   just not a good fit for current hardware will I think the multi-core hardware [TS]

01:16:54   rendering and main thread thing is kind of red herring it like in practice the [TS]

01:16:59   reason why a lot of a lot of you know you I code now is tricky to write is not [TS]

01:17:05   because drawn calls have to have a threat it it's because [TS]

01:17:10   she's declared a versus procedural whatever that it's a different paradigm [TS]

01:17:15   say it's not that it's tricky to rate is just that it's just like if you if you [TS]

01:17:19   have performance concerns like you want you wanna treat tomorrow at the game [TS]

01:17:22   ended where it's like if you're gonna do anything like you have to be done [TS]

01:17:27   because I had to pull the next event all you need to do you need to leave the [TS]

01:17:30   main threat alone do not let the whole thing and BCD stop blocking the main [TS]

01:17:33   threat for crying out loud I don't care what you have to do get like get in get [TS]

01:17:37   out I need to get the next event because it would feel if it's everyone its [TS]

01:17:40   chrome it's super bad and that's why I think this place at the school [TS]

01:17:44   you know the devices they have is like so you gonna show Big Bang great [TS]

01:17:47   advantages and they're coming from the internet you can't wait to get all those [TS]

01:17:50   downloaded to figure out what size there so you can lay it out will take forever [TS]

01:17:53   so there's like this procedural thing like will download super low res [TS]

01:17:57   versions of those and asynchronously bring in the higher res version just so [TS]

01:18:02   you can get a scrollable correctly laid out thing as soon as possible so you can [TS]

01:18:05   start scrolling it that's the type of thing that's very difficult to do with [TS]

01:18:09   the existing framework with its like they don't expect sort of asynchronous [TS]

01:18:12   updates all this to all these features it should be easier than it is and it's [TS]

01:18:17   not it's not because of like a declared every procedure that's part of it and [TS]

01:18:22   you could say I would be easier if I could describe IUI in this way instead [TS]

01:18:25   of writing a bunch of code to make my UI in this way but it's like four large [TS]

01:18:29   grids with lots of things on them I don't want to block the main thread with [TS]

01:18:34   it or not I don't want my main threat to be blocked if and is really large for [TS]

01:18:39   something that performances depends on the number of item yet but i i think [TS]

01:18:44   it's it's more you know the GCD we can already stepped off the main thread come [TS]

01:18:48   back later like it's it's more of a paradigm shift it's it's not it's not [TS]

01:18:53   that like the API's have to happen on his main threat it's that like the [TS]

01:18:56   paradigm for how you update the UI like [TS]

01:19:00   react does it like if you look like I don't know react so whenever I see [TS]

01:19:03   snippets of react code it just breaks my mind I like i'm looking at it on my god [TS]

01:19:09   this is totally like backwards inside-out upside down and in French [TS]

01:19:13   like aids like I was so it looks so foreign to me it's so different from [TS]

01:19:18   what I'm used to [TS]

01:19:20   yet so let me jump in here so one of the links is [TS]

01:19:23   that we're gonna put on the show notes while reacting need of matters in this [TS]

01:19:26   is by Josh Alper I'm guessing that's just cheaper anyway he says right now we [TS]

01:19:33   write you eyes by poking at them manually newt eating their properties [TS]

01:19:36   when something changes and removing views etc [TS]

01:19:39   this is fragile and error-prone some tools exist to lessen the pain the pain [TS]

01:19:42   but they can only go so far wiser big mess immutable stateful bags of sadness [TS]

01:19:47   react let's describe are you eyes for a given state and then it does the hard [TS]

01:19:53   work of figuring out what needs to change it abstracts all the fragile [TS]

01:19:57   error-prone code out away from us we describe what we want react figures out [TS]

01:20:00   how to accomplish it [TS]

01:20:01   you eyes become composable immutable stateless value types react native is [TS]

01:20:05   fantastic news and that's building it's Josh abernathy I'm sorry that's building [TS]

01:20:10   on what you were saying mark over this is just a whole different model of how [TS]

01:20:15   you interact with user interfaces and it makes a lot of sense maybe the [TS]

01:20:20   particulars are a little bit wonky and I'll concede that but the premise of [TS]

01:20:25   really this is just moving from one concrete state to another and it should [TS]

01:20:30   just be a finite state machine hopefully in theory that is a really cool premise [TS]

01:20:34   in in building on that I'm going back to India to Shaq he tweeted a few days ago [TS]

01:20:39   finally show notes I say with confidence as a former UIKit author reacts model [TS]

01:20:44   for the UI layer is vastly better than you I kids react native is a huge deal [TS]

01:20:48   in another tweet they've just gotta figure out the interaction in animation [TS]

01:20:52   pieces [TS]

01:20:53   and so he goes on just briefly to all AskMe what's react filter bubble danger [TS]

01:20:57   you must watch the broader development landscape don't get trapped in one [TS]

01:20:59   platform and I think that's that's a really good call and this is something [TS]

01:21:03   very interesting that's that's influence from the from a web framework coming [TS]

01:21:08   into native and it's making some real making some really interesting moves and [TS]

01:21:13   I and I wouldn't be surprised if something along these lines gets adopted [TS]

01:21:17   by Apple in the same way something online to reveal which isn't an [TS]

01:21:21   apples-to-apples comparison but reveals how to sherlock didn't surprise me they [TS]

01:21:25   took a very similar spiritual approach to whatever replaces you are you kidding [TS]

01:21:32   me and our kids eventually one day maybe because you know react I mean it's it's [TS]

01:21:36   making big waves and it's it's making waves with a lot of the people who [TS]

01:21:40   matter it's people like and people people who who are developing his [TS]

01:21:45   framework people who are in important positions or where or no people or those [TS]

01:21:50   are the new people in those positions do these are making big waves I've heard so [TS]

01:21:55   much but react every JavaScript framework out there besides reacted come [TS]

01:21:59   out in the last decade I hear nothing about because I don't care [TS]

01:22:02   react make bigger of waves that I keep hearing about it like I don't know [TS]

01:22:06   anything about anger is like a million different levels of factories and I know [TS]

01:22:11   area let you know those those are confined to the clients I react is [TS]

01:22:14   coming over to the natives I think need to tie this together with display it was [TS]

01:22:19   like you know we're talking in two different things like I was not talking [TS]

01:22:22   about anything just like it but the performance concerns and your dog [TS]

01:22:24   reacted the paradigm think they're connected though because reacts [TS]

01:22:28   functional thing we're like it you know you operate on state and its value type [TS]

01:22:31   thing that sort of you know lack of side effects were used in operating your [TS]

01:22:36   arguments return a value in it and everything is sort of you know just [TS]

01:22:39   value type [TS]

01:22:41   was something you thought it was well that allows you to paralyze the things [TS]

01:22:45   you don't have side effects if you're not it is not just one giant big balls [TS]

01:22:48   mutable state that you can only update 132 time otherwise you get crazy [TS]

01:22:51   conflicts that's what one of the many things that I that get to its current [TS]

01:22:55   paradigm react said you know reactivated display connected because he views the [TS]

01:22:59   reactor model it doesn't matter what three mutations are you could do the [TS]

01:23:03   mall in parallel the same thing like that their side effect read their peer [TS]

01:23:06   functional and so it lends itself to that type of modeling as opposed to the [TS]

01:23:12   current model but we had this one thing it is the state of the UI be super [TS]

01:23:17   careful with it and go back to OKC you said like I it is not past Apple to [TS]

01:23:23   steal good ideas they do it all the time and if something is making this big wave [TS]

01:23:29   and apples engineers and top people again if Apple thinks it's a good idea [TS]

01:23:34   they will do it or they will do something similar to it you know some of [TS]

01:23:39   this is that this is a pretty big deal to change your entire UI API paradigm or [TS]

01:23:44   to add a new one is a major deal and this you know this is a significant [TS]

01:23:49   happen in a year this is this is a big undertaking it would have to be a skunk [TS]

01:23:54   works but I think that the exciting thing about swift yeah it was but it was [TS]

01:23:58   essentially one guy who won very powerful guy who would prove himself the [TS]

01:24:03   many other things that he had done in the company's I just some random [TS]

01:24:05   employee off in the corner somewhere but for a long time it was just one person [TS]

01:24:09   and I'm sure there's lots of other one person died projects that may or may not [TS]

01:24:12   go anywhere but like it just goes to show that you don't need like buy into [TS]

01:24:16   the VP level to get the ball rolling and maybe the ball starts rolling and then [TS]

01:24:20   stop throwing my guys happened with ZFS or whatever the other things like it's [TS]

01:24:25   not guaranteed is going to happen but it seems like Apple is currently [TS]

01:24:28   organization in which something like this could start happening and get [TS]

01:24:32   killed before we ever see it and something else comes along maybe [TS]

01:24:34   reactors just the the hotness today and then two years it something else like [TS]

01:24:37   but [TS]

01:24:38   it's not outside the realm of possibility that Apple can innovate in [TS]

01:24:41   his way on any subject of Infosys which they seem institutionally incapable not [TS]

01:24:47   that I'm better than that but if they're going to do something like a react style [TS]

01:24:57   UI framework that would be a really good thing to start with swift and to make [TS]

01:25:02   swift only one of the things that I that makes react could look so weird is that [TS]

01:25:07   it fits in very weirdly with existing languages [TS]

01:25:10   the syntax of of declaring it and using it just like using javascript like this [TS]

01:25:16   yeah it's really badly bolted on and I mean you know not by its own fault but [TS]

01:25:20   really but you know Swift is is still squishy and and generally more potable [TS]

01:25:26   but but but Swift is a much better fit the whole idea of so many things mean [TS]

01:25:30   value types and swift like not that that is a direct parallel to the idea of the [TS]

01:25:33   UI state being a valued and everything but i just shows that the headspace like [TS]

01:25:37   whereas with that in terms of like immutable data [TS]

01:25:40   well it is it is much more on the Riak side of things in Objective C is [TS]

01:25:44   subjective thing is all but everything to mutate and hey just declared a type I [TS]

01:25:48   D whatever gods alright [TS]

01:25:50   like no you know we're going to end things down a lot of things that were [TS]

01:25:54   reference types of becoming value types just because we've learned that in a [TS]

01:25:58   string reference type just leaves in or headaches and don't forget to copy them [TS]

01:26:02   and you know like that is the mindset of swift and so something using the good [TS]

01:26:09   ideas and react in a st. display kid written entirely in swift would be a [TS]

01:26:13   very interesting successor to both you I can get from Apple so someone should [TS]

01:26:17   start writing that now and for years get back to me and give me reason to expect [TS]

01:26:21   that to be a yes or three sponsors this week [TS]

01:26:28   igloo hover and automatic and we'll see you next week [TS]

01:26:33   now the show they didn't even mean to begin because it was accidental [TS]

01:26:42   accidental [TS]

01:26:49   and a team markle [TS]

01:27:32   what we talked about what is this about you really get into this go thing yeah [TS]

01:27:40   I'm getting faster with it now and today was the first I like my my previous the [TS]

01:27:46   the polar to feed polar that's just one giant file I didn't want to figure out [TS]

01:27:51   you know how do I break up things in your files and manage that in go because [TS]

01:27:56   it fit you know it's it's a pretty long files and I should bring up now the [TS]

01:28:00   longer ones I like you know finalized actually need to be in the in the system [TS]

01:28:06   fully but that's as you know so tonight I was working on something else so I [TS]

01:28:11   have these and these two servers at high velocity they bought their lowest are [TS]

01:28:17   started leasing per month by month ago and I haven't done anything with them [TS]

01:28:21   yet because I I bought them because they were having an insane sale that was just [TS]

01:28:26   ridiculous for what you get for both hardware and bandwidth we're now I for a [TS]

01:28:31   few hundred dollars a month I now have an unmetered Gigabit of transfer a [TS]

01:28:36   gigabit per second [TS]

01:28:37   unmetered transfer what I asked them I'm like it before but unlike ours so you [TS]

01:28:43   know what's your actual policy like if I actually use all this what if I was [TS]

01:28:47   hosting big podcast value of if I made a podcast file hosts for whoever else like [TS]

01:28:52   you know if we actually used all this ballot would you cut it off for it like [TS]

01:28:58   and they're like nope we actually like you can use it that's the point so and [TS]

01:29:04   it's it's it's a pair of machines that are each 500 megabit and they're each as [TS]

01:29:11   good as roughly as good as a six core Mac Pro dual SSD is raid with RAID 1 64 [TS]

01:29:17   gigs of ram I mean it's insane machines six-core Xeon 1663 is actually faster [TS]

01:29:24   than the current Mac Pro CD is the Metra seem to have skipped a generation which [TS]

01:29:29   they sometimes do so I'm not surprised but there is a newer version of the Xeon [TS]

01:29:34   chips at the Met per uses that is out right now that Apple has not updated to [TS]

01:29:37   and seems like there probably is not going to at this point anyway so I have [TS]

01:29:42   is that I bought because [TS]

01:29:44   one thing I want to do is and the reason why I was so interested in having tons [TS]

01:29:49   and tons of bandwidth available is I want to be able to launch a Twitter card [TS]

01:29:55   for overcast player pages so that you so that people who present Twitter app can [TS]

01:29:59   play the podcast right there and Twitter cards store cards require that all [TS]

01:30:03   assets that are loaded with in them including media files are served over [TS]

01:30:08   HTTPS some podcast host supporters TPS for their files but most adult so what [TS]

01:30:15   so the first thing a lot of the right was an HTTPS proxy and there are few [TS]

01:30:22   these exist there's one called out as one that get her brood in Tahoe merit [TS]

01:30:29   sorry forgot the name anyway so there's there's that one that's fine [TS]

01:30:32   briefly to make it for images but same way I decided to try to write that in [TS]

01:30:41   good basic as a proxy and it's it's so it's nothing it's like a hundred lie to [TS]

01:30:46   me it's it's almost nothing it's great and I also have a few other things I [TS]

01:30:49   wanted to try the I mentioned last week that I was using image extra my son [TS]

01:30:54   nailing but it was costing me a fortune so I'm moving my artwork from Taylor to [TS]

01:31:01   these boxes as well so I wrote just one go program that contains those two [TS]

01:31:06   functions the proxy and the other just those two functions including it listens [TS]

01:31:13   of Rick's DPS and its own services no server to forever there's no engine [TS]

01:31:17   extra patchy or anything reverse proxying to its just its own server [TS]

01:31:20   wrong right to the internet and that's all these boxes do is run this program [TS]

01:31:24   so I'm hopefully going to be playing that the next day or so then it didn't [TS]

01:31:30   take long to write it sounds like a few days I've been sick so my my work hours [TS]

01:31:35   I can I can only work a few hours of time before I get laid out which really [TS]

01:31:39   sucks but I'm extremely annoyed about that that is by far the worst part about [TS]

01:31:45   being sick is is not how I feel it's that I can't work like that's what [TS]

01:31:50   drives me nuts the most anyway so that's at least so [TS]

01:31:55   if I was working full time at full capacity is from going to take only two [TS]

01:31:59   days it has actually taken something like four days but so how does your go [TS]

01:32:03   server handle the like quite understand the concurrency model of how does it [TS]

01:32:09   handle like you know they're more incoming connections then like it does [TS]

01:32:13   it does do multiple processes there a single process event driven what does it [TS]

01:32:17   look like on the machine it it can do multiple cores but it is it is also seen [TS]

01:32:22   its for the most part of single process of entering its they use this kind of an [TS]

01:32:26   forgive me anyone who is an expert listening I'm not an expert yet on this [TS]

01:32:29   this is a newbie overview of what are the way it works but the uses these [TS]

01:32:35   include good routines which which are these you know kind of the Reds during [TS]

01:32:40   sequential processes or something like that yes I am i that so it's those [TS]

01:32:44   things and it basically a very lightweight thread that exists within [TS]

01:32:49   the app space it is not a little threat so how does it behave like at the limit [TS]

01:32:53   of you overwhelmed with connections to just wait does they do you exhaust like [TS]

01:32:59   number of you know I was looking at the behavior it limits like this only reason [TS]

01:33:04   I would ever put another server in front of like well I know how whatever will [TS]

01:33:07   behave I can set these limits the number of connections I know people wait I know [TS]

01:33:10   what will happen I know when people start getting timeouts connection like [TS]

01:33:14   whatever whatever the failure mode is i cant use my failure mode and I don't [TS]

01:33:17   know what the hell you wrote it all goes it never used it I so I I was earlier [TS]

01:33:23   today to try to figure out why do I need to put engine X in front of it or [TS]

01:33:27   something I can I just go without it the responses to that question were for the [TS]

01:33:31   most part a few people who did it [TS]

01:33:33   who just did it brought the internet who said its fine a few people who said you [TS]

01:33:39   should put in connection front of it because of separation of roles which i [TS]

01:33:44   think is total BS honestly that that is not a good like the way those arguments [TS]

01:33:49   presented none of them convince me that they were valid arguments that that was [TS]

01:33:52   not like there's nothing saying that having engine X reverse proxying to this [TS]

01:33:58   go server is any more of a purity of roles than having to go server serving [TS]

01:34:03   itself like it it has it [TS]

01:34:05   has functionality built into the language like it's not the only reason I [TS]

01:34:08   can think of her like the old reason they were used to run proxy server is [TS]

01:34:11   that if you don't want to slow down the process with a bunch of your clients [TS]

01:34:17   have slow connections you don't want to tie up your backend process doling out [TS]

01:34:23   bits to the slow connections between an event driven thing that's not really [TS]

01:34:27   valid anymore but you're not talking it up you doing out but slowly doing other [TS]

01:34:31   things you know multithreaded then moving on to the next thing right and [TS]

01:34:36   and like and the way like it seems like you would like the difference between [TS]

01:34:40   engine X being tied up with those connections and go be entitled to [TS]

01:34:44   because they both have that same event driven style model I don't think one to [TS]

01:34:49   be substantially better than the other that yeah and the failure modes the real [TS]

01:34:53   question for me is like does Google put anything in front of its service when it [TS]

01:34:57   really cool doesn't do it which I suspect they don't because it seems like [TS]

01:35:00   those designed to do this then like Google side doing it you don't need to [TS]

01:35:03   do anything like their it if it's able to [TS]

01:35:06   designed to handle the traffic that Google expects surely you can do your [TS]

01:35:11   podcast image thing about having to go out talk during the day I know nothing [TS]

01:35:14   about this I'll be interested to see what the results are experimentation [TS]

01:35:18   that's probably about as simple just because Google is such an incredible [TS]

01:35:21   skill they have lots of stuff in between the public Internet and their [TS]

01:35:26   application server so that that's probably about example but I would be [TS]

01:35:30   interested to see like you know medium sized sites to see like what they do [TS]

01:35:35   like Google do they intentionally put a layer there whose only purpose is to be [TS]

01:35:40   you know I mean like I respect of the machines of their things are running on [TS]

01:35:44   the go process is listening on the parts and yes there's nothing between but like [TS]

01:35:47   do they do they strive and Jackson there is essentially a proxy server for some [TS]

01:35:52   reason [TS]

01:35:52   it makes much more sense to do that if you have a multi-process back and do you [TS]

01:35:56   think he would be tying up the entire trial process when really you just put a [TS]

01:36:00   big buffer in the proxy have the child process should bite out of the proxy and [TS]

01:36:04   then that child process is free to serve another request while the process [TS]

01:36:06   forward old up as business local that's like nineteen nineties error of state of [TS]

01:36:11   the art web technology but we've done from the right then and there was I saw [TS]

01:36:14   there was one benchmark that somebody posted where they they they should they [TS]

01:36:18   should have the code the use and there are few if you complain in the Commons [TS]

01:36:21   but it seemed pretty pretty valid where they they benchmarks like a simple [TS]

01:36:25   simple go program like a hello world kind of thing really simple go program [TS]

01:36:29   raw vs and connects with a few different configurations and tweaks and the ngo [TS]

01:36:35   program just had it destroyed engine X in in in request rate per second with [TS]

01:36:42   either a be or whether they're similar tools it was WAY faster with just pure [TS]

01:36:46   go cause of course it's doing less like and your synchronizing to event driven [TS]

01:36:50   things like one thing is handling and they're not going to be in sync of like [TS]

01:36:54   when 1 I'm doing the work on behalf of this request then handing out like it's [TS]

01:36:57   just you're just it's not just adding overhead it's like these 2d synchronized [TS]

01:37:01   event driven things trying to talk to each other [TS]

01:37:04   exactly so that's what I mean so what these servers are set up they actually [TS]

01:37:10   have none of my app on them they don't have any access to my main [TS]

01:37:14   infrastructure they don't they don't even read the database they they don't [TS]

01:37:17   have anything on them except this go program there's they don't even have PHP [TS]

01:37:21   installed so they don't even have private net access that of the line owed [TS]

01:37:26   servers they have no connection whatsoever to the app just my app is [TS]

01:37:31   able to write its files into it and it only has the Gulf I also like the risk [TS]

01:37:36   of these things it comprises pretty small and if they go down the these are [TS]

01:37:40   really kind of accessory features its I'm gonna have a CDN effort of the [TS]

01:37:44   artwork thumbnail her anyway I'm not much of a CDN in front of the park has [TS]

01:37:50   been with the podcast SSL thing for two reasons number 12 bandwidth costs of [TS]

01:37:55   extraordinary and I don't think I would be able to afford it [TS]

01:37:59   number to the way this is working overcast does not proxy the files [TS]

01:38:04   normally [TS]

01:38:04   and I only want to use this in areas where SSL really required for usability [TS]

01:38:10   or functionality so that would be things like Twitter cards the web player to [TS]

01:38:15   avoid mix content warnings things like that in reality that's not most uses of [TS]

01:38:20   overcast that's not most players and it will never be but regardless I still [TS]

01:38:25   don't wanna like steel hits from people's files and so the way they've [TS]

01:38:30   set up that there is absolutely no caching of that some proxies assets [TS]

01:38:35   every request that is made through that proxy has a has a corresponding request [TS]

01:38:40   that the origin server and and I know you know they're probably not going to [TS]

01:38:44   count my IP is unique I am sending the exported for an extra IP headers that [TS]

01:38:50   the standard for proxies I would imagine like to prevent fraudulent download [TS]

01:38:55   count increases most at services probably ignore those are some of the [TS]

01:39:00   big hosokawa I already talked to his lips in and I know SoundCloud I won't I [TS]

01:39:05   don't need to use it with them because I know how I know how to do secure URLs [TS]

01:39:09   for them reliably so that that should be fine but either way I still want like I [TS]

01:39:14   still want the damage to be counted in some way as as much as possible for the [TS]

01:39:19   origin servers so anyway there's no cash involved there that's intentional but [TS]

01:39:24   for the art work there is cash involved there's gonna be a CD in front of it so [TS]

01:39:28   if these servers go down for any reason it's not gonna be a massive deal it's [TS]

01:39:35   not gonna be like the whole app stops working or something big is like ugly [TS]

01:39:39   and broken it's gonna be a really small deal and so I'm just gonna try it and [TS]

01:39:43   you know I have just this 17 megabyte go binary to to put into service and that's [TS]

01:39:48   it there's no dependencies there's no at this very much if there's no [TS]

01:39:52   configuration really the only sensitive thing on there is gonna be the private [TS]

01:39:57   key to the SSL certificate that uses that's it [TS]

01:40:00   like so I will be interesting that was much more in depth than I expected that [TS]

01:40:08   sucks [TS]

01:40:09   what's going on titles I think minutiae that has to mean that has to be it is a [TS]

01:40:16   binding is that's gonna break a whole bunch of podcast klein's isn't it like [TS]

01:40:22   shell script might break to the title yeah well it's not really on August 2 [TS]

01:40:29   I'll use iTunes to deliver something else can you believe a lot of high-cost [TS]

01:40:34   producers that's how the embedded III tags is the import the mp3 into iTunes [TS]

01:40:40   and hit him and I for the info panel and type in the stuff and an expert like [TS]

01:40:44   that's crazy to me that anybody does that issues mp3 rage and pretend its [TS]

01:40:48   2002 again [TS]

01:40:49   well I'm using lame on the command line which is pretending like it's 2004 [TS]

01:40:54   similar area yeah exactly what the heck center [TS]

01:40:59   well then you have to know UTF eight converting that that karen is probably [TS]

01:41:06   the best one here is that is that little a simple actually pronounced like shake [TS]

01:41:14   dat the let me know how to pronounce the little well depends on what language you [TS]

01:41:18   talking about if you're talking about Latin or Greek which is probably where [TS]

01:41:21   it's from the answer is nobody actually knows and everyone's gonna think they [TS]

01:41:25   know and they're making it up so I think we'll use the wonderful a ligature and [TS]

01:41:32   we will just tolerate the emails they come in because we love everybody's [TS]

01:41:37   email so much going to be able to tell you that I think it is a litre isn't it [TS]

01:41:43   I don't know I'm just speculating about potential you know we could get as as [TS]

01:41:48   Holgate in the chatroom points out the HTML entity name for it is 80 leg so I'm [TS]

01:41:54   pretty sure that the ligature I don't know I don't know the technology you [TS]

01:41:57   know it's fun to type face and everything that lots of distinctions [TS]

01:42:01   that I have apparently not cared enough about to memorize I know they exist but [TS]

01:42:07   I don't know what's right [TS]