The Accidental Tech Podcast

103: An Atheist or a Howard Stern Fan


00:00:00   Ever Interpol pictures of the Ferrari for aid for the after show. [TS]

00:00:03   We actually are probably going to do an after show neutral because I have. What is it what you say forty eight. [TS]

00:00:08   Who first turbo interesting. [TS]

00:00:10   If you're just hearing this news now you didn't look at dreams of tweeting about it I was going back [TS]

00:00:14   and forth of the topic. I was watching. I was watching I don't deserve Ferrari's forget it. [TS]

00:00:20   Now for Ivory the one of you that's it did you guys add anything good to the topics list because I don't see anything [TS]

00:00:28   exciting on there. I had one of those give me a boring show everyone I carry a career. [TS]

00:00:36   I just realize that I haven't added anything other than one little measly item and. [TS]

00:00:40   I guess we have some leftovers from before our yet so here's my crappy story I wanted to tell me it's there yesterday I [TS]

00:00:48   was fiddling with the C.S.S. For my website and you have to understand. If you think of the person in your life.. [TS]

00:00:55   That claims to be a developer but is the worst. That you can possibly be at C.S.S. [TS]

00:01:01   I'm like five times worse than that person. So anyway something with C.S.S. [TS]

00:01:05   Trying to do a media query which is pretty much in for for my god awful skill level and. [TS]

00:01:12   I remembered that you can actually have Safari. Reach into whatever the I O. S. Simulator Safari app is to do you. The. [TS]

00:01:24   The inspector. Thank you. The inspector. [TS]

00:01:26   On what's being shown in the I was simulator which I thought was freaking cool. [TS]

00:01:30   And I know this is not new news but that was the first occasion I had to actually use it. My thought was amazing. [TS]

00:01:36   It's amazing what a works. [TS]

00:01:38   Read last time I use it was like two years ago [TS]

00:01:40   but boy was it flaky it works for me I've I've used it a lot in it it's always worked great recently I think you came [TS]

00:01:46   out in Iowa six. [TS]

00:01:48   I think it was years ago [TS]

00:01:48   when I was brand new I was so excited I was able do it like this is going to make everything so much easier [TS]

00:01:52   and it does [TS]

00:01:53   but it would like lose its connection to the remote browser things like all the time though now it's now it's pretty [TS]

00:01:59   solid I use it all the time. And it works with any any web you in the app so like if you. [TS]

00:02:04   You need not just mobile Safari was not right. That's what the gratings about it like. If you have a web you in Iraq. [TS]

00:02:09   It'll list all the active web use that are currently touch of the window and. And you can dominate spec your web use. [TS]

00:02:15   Which is really handy. I'm pretty sure that's the main reason it's there. And that that's it's so useful. [TS]

00:02:22   That's extremely cool. Yes well I know and it's like I said. [TS]

00:02:24   Kind of silly story but I saw it was neat So go try that if you're a web developer and or terrible to C.S.S. Like I am. [TS]

00:02:31   Yeah and. For those of you who don't know where it is. If you launch. If you're running the simulator. [TS]

00:02:36   Go back to Safari and under the Debug menu at a list. Any web use that are found in the running. Simulator. [TS]

00:02:42   So in the safari. Developer or debug me whatever whatever it's called that's desktop Safari just to be absolutely. [TS]

00:02:48   Yep it's called Call develop OK Yes So if you go to develop it's listed there. All right. [TS]

00:02:54   Any other crappy stories before going to follow. [TS]

00:02:56   I can tell you about some dreams I've had recently maybe maybe some some travel stories I've heard that Boston's gotten [TS]

00:03:03   of a bit of snow. You and your beloved winters. We're not talking about snow. [TS]

00:03:08   It sounds like we are THE HELL YOU LOVE win or did anything happen in the industry that we can actually talk about. [TS]

00:03:13   No not really. It doesn't think it was that big of a Newsweek follow up for us from one of the topics. [TS]

00:03:19   Although I didn't I didn't put either one of the fall but it is all you gave the. [TS]

00:03:22   Let's do some follow up Daniel sure soon. Has said about handwriting recognition. [TS]

00:03:26   Text input is still kind of hacky for languages with more than thirty ish letters and. [TS]

00:03:32   There was a tweet that he had posted will put that Michelle notes I just thought was an interesting point because I can [TS]

00:03:37   imagine a situation where you have eleven does Illian characters that may be kind of difficult. That being said. [TS]

00:03:44   Hot off the presses earlier today. On Wednesday. [TS]

00:03:48   My friend will Haynes who I believe I brought up in the last episode or if not an episode or two ago. [TS]

00:03:53   Put together a about five minute video of how you can enter text in Iowa state in various different languages so again [TS]

00:04:03   will is Australian born but lives in Tokyo and has for a while now. [TS]

00:04:08   And so he put together this video [TS]

00:04:10   and it doesn't require audio which is kind of nice if you want to be listening to like music or something else. [TS]

00:04:15   But what he talks about is the various ways that you can type in both Japanese and actually Chinese as well [TS]

00:04:21   and that includes the romaji keyboard I'm probably pronouncing it wrong I'm sorry try. [TS]

00:04:28   So do you know the actual pronunciation. Now but I always say we're Monte OK Well there you go. [TS]

00:04:32   Like Jumanji Yeah that's exactly what I was kind of I could be wrong too. [TS]

00:04:37   So you said that apparently the way that works is you basically use. What I would call an English keyboard. [TS]

00:04:43   In order to start typing. [TS]

00:04:46   The English language equivalent of Japanese words I'm already probably going to hurt terribly wrong I'm so sorry. [TS]

00:04:53   And then he also showed a couple of the other keyboards one of which is set up like a numeric keypad. [TS]

00:05:00   Which is kind of interesting. [TS]

00:05:02   And apparently because Japanese specifically only has put so many sounds that kind of works [TS]

00:05:07   and it's a combination of typing and. I think. Which is what he had actually shown me at the beer bash W.B.C. and Then. [TS]

00:05:12   I had confused my own story and. I had thought he had shown me a handwriting recognition. Keyboard which he didn't. [TS]

00:05:20   But in this video he does take liberty of showing you how handwriting recognition keyboard would work for Chinese. [TS]

00:05:26   So you don't have to watch the entire video obviously don't watch any of it but I thought was a fascinating [TS]

00:05:31   and very succinct look at how you can enter these very different languages [TS]

00:05:39   or type in these very different languages in really wild [TS]

00:05:42   and different ways than the traditional keyboard that we're all used to [TS]

00:05:44   and I just thought it was really needed either of your eyes watch list I seen that Marco you did not because you don't [TS]

00:05:48   believe in Homer. I'm actually very heavily medicated right now fighting off a horrible cold. [TS]

00:05:53   So I did almost nothing to prepare for the show I literally I printed out. [TS]

00:05:58   My little three pages here of sponsorship read. And we'll talk about your friend out later. Yeah. [TS]

00:06:03   And that's literally all I did. I just opened up chrome. After I started this call to look at the Excellent. [TS]

00:06:10   John did you often watch a city that's main thing I came away from our feedback about this is that like people all over [TS]

00:06:17   the map. Some people are like. [TS]

00:06:19   Nobody uses Ham writing recognition never when just used to typing it in or only all people. [TS]

00:06:25   Whatever use handwriting recognition. Other people or like and writing recognition is so much better. [TS]

00:06:32   In fact it's better than it is in western languages because there is [TS]

00:06:35   and sort of an order that you're supposed to do the strokes in a direction everything is very regimented and if you. [TS]

00:06:41   You know everybody learns the same way on like you know. [TS]

00:06:44   Letters in English language would that different people draw in all sorts of crazy different ways in different orders [TS]

00:06:49   and everything so I really don't know what to think in fact one of the weird things my guesses and weird [TS]

00:06:54   but I think seem like a majority to feedback we got were from people who were not from the region like I really are the [TS]

00:07:02   U.K. Germany and I moved to the Far East and you know I guess they're giving like a Westerner as an impression. [TS]

00:07:08   And then I would imagine all the people who were born there can understand a word were saying is that you know. [TS]

00:07:12   Most and on the language. So I don't know a lot of people were showing us the. [TS]

00:07:17   The the built in hand writing recognition that said I was now under the accessibility things and everything [TS]

00:07:24   and say all I need your Anything authority already built in there and. [TS]

00:07:27   I have I remember back in two thousand and two I think it was when Apple had a hen reading recognition to zero S. Ten D. [TS]

00:07:34   That one of you guys remember that know who and I put it in my review. [TS]

00:07:38   Because I got that show off my terrible handwriting I tried to write hello world like seven times [TS]

00:07:42   and I showed what I was ten thought I was writing all the sometimes it guessed correctly hello world of the times that [TS]

00:07:47   was way off. But all these cases it's like. [TS]

00:07:51   This is sort of an optional extra buried in some you know it's not universal like. [TS]

00:07:57   When Apple had speech recognition pretty much any place you have a text input field. [TS]

00:08:01   If you can bring up the standard keyboard. There's a little. [TS]

00:08:04   You know microphone and you can use their hand reckon reckon handwriting recognition has not been raised that level. [TS]

00:08:09   Well that because Apple doesn't ship any devices of a stylus and doesn't really. [TS]

00:08:12   You know have its own styles that it supports [TS]

00:08:14   or anything so I think that's what we're all waiting for regarding that the styles now that will Apple. [TS]

00:08:22   Do for handwriting recognition of what it has already done for text into over the keyboard and for audio input. [TS]

00:08:31   Species Act. Oh. [TS]

00:08:34   So is this even still in the West and no I think so I mean I should pop my tablet in connected [TS]

00:08:40   and see if it happens so they call that incurs other you don't see the bank well. [TS]

00:08:44   Yeah you don't see the preference pain unless you actually attach a tablet that you know so [TS]

00:08:48   and so you do that it doesn't appear I guess you could just go into the preference panes directory [TS]

00:08:52   and look to see if you see the handwriting recognition or ink. Thing in there. [TS]

00:08:56   I have a lack of help in the closet I could probably try with this week and report back next week. [TS]

00:09:00   Yeah that's what I use for the review I think I borrowed a tablet and just plugged it and little thing appeared. [TS]

00:09:06   I'll find a link for the show it's some point. [TS]

00:09:09   Ask a tall just this in the chat saying to us that it's still there so I'll will assume that that's the case. [TS]

00:09:15   Yeah you know I have been looking for ways to slow down my computer input make it less efficient [TS]

00:09:20   and more annoying to get more done. So I'm looking forward to trying this. I know there are there's a designer at work. [TS]

00:09:27   And she has a whack on Wacko I'm lacking it whatever it's called Tablet a thing. [TS]

00:09:32   And not only that but he also has a Magic Trackpad [TS]

00:09:37   and I believe he also uses a mouse so he has all three manners of pointing devices on his desk. [TS]

00:09:43   At all times which I think is a little bit crazy but you know. Designers are kind of a little bit crazy. Well. [TS]

00:09:49   He currently has the same number of input methods on his desk as I have headphone amps on my desk so I can't really [TS]

00:09:57   complain or say anything about that very tough. [TS]

00:10:00   Alright any other follow up that we have are we going to go on that like we're forgetting something that I don't know [TS]

00:10:07   what. Well yeah. You're free to follow up on my email. People complaining about you having a talk about that. [TS]

00:10:13   No no that was a that reference never mind. Anyway every minded me. [TS]

00:10:17   Last week when Marco told everybody that he hates them. [TS]

00:10:20   And all the angry email from the people who are whose feelings are hurt by Markos email policy. [TS]

00:10:28   Oh yeah there are a lot of hurt feelings. [TS]

00:10:30   Were there because from from with the responses that actually got to me via Twitter and email. [TS]

00:10:36   It was overwhelmingly positive. [TS]

00:10:38   There were certainly some people who were like yeah that you probably shouldn't doing that or. [TS]

00:10:42   I'm personally offended you should not even be in business. One guy got really bent out of shape but it. [TS]

00:10:49   For the most part. It's not the response was not nearly as bad as I expected it was overall. Mostly in agreement. [TS]

00:10:56   Or at least understanding. [TS]

00:10:58   I think that is fair and I think even the people who are angry understood their dislike the people who are angry. [TS]

00:11:07   Didn't like the idea that your policy. Left some people feeling bad. [TS]

00:11:14   Like especially if it was them like they would say. [TS]

00:11:16   I understand the effects of your policy in terms of how you allocate your time [TS]

00:11:22   and return on investment like the business type things but they would say [TS]

00:11:26   but I think overall it's not a good strategy because it leaves. Some of your customers. [TS]

00:11:33   Feeling bad and sometimes they would say they were one of the customers who felt bad [TS]

00:11:37   and some lives that I don't personally mind [TS]

00:11:39   but I can imagine that some customers feel bad so therefore the overall effect of your strategy is negative. [TS]

00:11:46   or could be better if you did suggestions X. Y. and Z. What I thought was interesting is that. [TS]

00:11:53   I actually heard from a handful of other like people with some degree of Internet fame [TS]

00:11:58   or some sizable audience who also have a similar like quick skimming and very little replying. [TS]

00:12:06   Policies or a some of me don't even read the emails anymore. So I heard from a number of people a few people who. [TS]

00:12:14   Who were in a similar situation. And who did basically the same thing. [TS]

00:12:18   But you know it can't really come out [TS]

00:12:20   and say that publicly a lot of the time like it's kind of like saying you're an atheist or Howard Stern fan. [TS]

00:12:25   Like you'd like. There's a lot of them out there. But no one's talking about it really. [TS]

00:12:29   Because it's it can be politically unwise to say this in public to everybody all the time. [TS]

00:12:34   But you'd be surprised how many people do the exact same policy or very similar one or even more ruthless one. [TS]

00:12:43   You have to otherwise they said you know. You'll spend very large amount of your time can. [TS]

00:12:47   Conversing with people on a lot of the people who thought it was an overall bad policy. Because like that. [TS]

00:12:53   Despite the good parts of it which they would acknowledge in terms of how you manage. [TS]

00:12:57   Giving you more time to develop things they would say here the bad parts and here's why I like it doesn't balance out. [TS]

00:13:02   They would suggest alternatives like it was the same thing you get with feature request. [TS]

00:13:07   If only you would just have all you would just and then whatever. [TS]

00:13:12   And all the if only you would just didn't seem like they would solve the problem. [TS]

00:13:18   If only you would just solve that Britain's problem of all you would just tweet about problems. [TS]

00:13:24   Which by the way I do I know. Ball you've done more recently than in the past. [TS]

00:13:28   Ever only you would just have a blog about the problem of all So. [TS]

00:13:31   You would just have a mailing list of only you would just have a public bug tracker of only you would just have a blog [TS]

00:13:36   right. But each one of those things. This person we like. [TS]

00:13:40   Well I don't I don't use Twitter so you tweeting about doesn't help me at all. [TS]

00:13:43   I don't want any more email some analysts is going to help you I'd never join up. [TS]

00:13:46   I don't like to I would never find your blog [TS]

00:13:48   or I don't like to read your blog so if you put up that there's not going to you know. [TS]

00:13:51   That's what it comes down to with all of these sort of centralized places where you can communicate to your users [TS]

00:13:58   because everybody has something they do [TS]

00:14:01   or don't want to do I don't email I don't read Twitter I don't want to read more blogs that I want to do this I don't [TS]

00:14:05   matter that right. To get them all you would have to have all those things a usenet group a man last set of forums. [TS]

00:14:13   A Twitter account let's get to the day. A separate blog for I like. [TS]

00:14:16   And even then some of it like oh I don't use any of the things you have an R.S.S. Feed all I don't reason are like. [TS]

00:14:21   You will forever chase the individual people who have like one of their specific needs of how you're going to [TS]

00:14:25   communicate with them and at that point it's like. Well now this is taking more time than just replying to the email. [TS]

00:14:29   Like there is. [TS]

00:14:31   It's like the person I want to feature [TS]

00:14:33   and a piece of software like I don't need all the features his program you can cut every single piece of these three [TS]

00:14:37   and ever pick a different three [TS]

00:14:39   and have no three thousand acres in it so it's a lot of people were trying to say from your perspective I see how this [TS]

00:14:46   works out but from my perspective an engineer or user it sucks and I can I see that but it's like. [TS]

00:14:51   If you look at the other side of it. You can't make it not suck for everybody. [TS]

00:14:56   It's always going to suck for somebody and sometimes that somebody is going to be you. [TS]

00:15:00   Or you or you are you know I mean and so it's. [TS]

00:15:03   It's not like a no win situation [TS]

00:15:05   but like people looking for a solution is going to make everybody happy I just don't think it exists. [TS]

00:15:10   The alternatives that people suggest. Those all take time. And if it comes to like support tools. [TS]

00:15:19   You know any kind of C.R.M. [TS]

00:15:20   Thing and if the any kind of like support service where it's source your emails into like threads for you [TS]

00:15:26   and has no clue working on it and stuff like that any kind of like you know email ticketing system. [TS]

00:15:30   Those all take work to plow through like you're just moving the work to something else. [TS]

00:15:35   Forms bug tracker is public pages of any kind. Somebody recommended get hub. [TS]

00:15:41   Tracking that's crazy because regular people have no idea how to use get her but I don't blame them. [TS]

00:15:46   You have a Facebook group. [TS]

00:15:47   I do have a couple group I posted zero times to it like it [TS]

00:15:51   and Facebook keeps telling me how people are engaging with it [TS]

00:15:53   and that they want me to pay them to let them engage more something I don't know it's it's terrible I don't how to use [TS]

00:15:59   Facebook. I even have a Pinterest group I don't know how to use that either. But you know I have these channels. [TS]

00:16:04   The only one I really uses Twitter. To communicate with the user that I don't even have an overcast blog. [TS]

00:16:10   And if I had one nobody would read it. [TS]

00:16:12   If I have I have a Twitter account [TS]

00:16:14   and I will tweet things in the Twitter account of current that is updates things I'm working on known bugs. [TS]

00:16:20   And then I'll have people tweet at me. So I know they're using Twitter I don't know but the account. [TS]

00:16:26   I'll have them tweeted the account like three hours later. As if they had not seen what I posted three hours ago. [TS]

00:16:33   Because they didn't. [TS]

00:16:34   They didn't as they don't read the whole Thailand so could you just could you repeat your tweets on the hour every hour [TS]

00:16:38   but not so much that people don't read the timelines are not buying them. Exactly so. [TS]

00:16:41   So Twitter is not a good medium for keeping people updated. But it. [TS]

00:16:46   Like everything else that's out there would take more time it would be one more thing to do two more things to do more [TS]

00:16:52   things to update and. You know overall probably more work. [TS]

00:16:57   And there would still be hundreds of people who would blow right by that not see it I mean look on the part of the app [TS]

00:17:05   where it lets you email me. It is surrounded by reasons why you don't need to email me anymore. [TS]

00:17:11   Here's F.A.Q.'s Here's what's coming up in the next version here's what's in this version here's the bug fixes like [TS]

00:17:15   here the known bugs. [TS]

00:17:17   That's all right there on that page no one reads it never has clicked the e-mail [TS]

00:17:20   and emails me think they're you know about that is. That's the reality like. No matter what you do you know. [TS]

00:17:26   No one's going to read everything you can either no one to be aware of everything you put out there. [TS]

00:17:29   No one is going to is going to be able to look and say like oh well. [TS]

00:17:34   I have now checked all the official overcast communication channels read back in the history of by a few weeks to know [TS]

00:17:40   everything there is no it's currently going on now I will email them. No that doesn't happen. [TS]

00:17:45   And I don't expect people to the pets ridiculous. So no matter what you do. [TS]

00:17:50   You are always going to get supporting them. [TS]

00:17:53   And there are things I can do to reduce the amount support email number one thing you can do to reduce the amount of [TS]

00:17:57   support email is to get rid of the bugs are complaining about. [TS]

00:18:01   That's what I'm doing by a long shot that is the best you can do to reduce support e-mail is read get rid of the [TS]

00:18:08   problems of talking about and give people ways to help themselves. Now. [TS]

00:18:13   The latter is worth discussing So give people ways to help themselves. Password resets. Like. Make make that easy. [TS]

00:18:21   And any kind of like basic account management thing that they would have to email you for make that easy [TS]

00:18:25   and I'm I still have a little bit of a little bit of ways to go on that. [TS]

00:18:28   I don't currently have a way to change your password except by resetting it. [TS]

00:18:32   I don't currently have a way to change your your regular email address. You haven't built them yet and like. [TS]

00:18:38   Hardly anybody ever asked So it's kind of a low priority compared to other stuff I have to fix. [TS]

00:18:42   So there's things like that that I get occasional emails about. Then there's the big stuff. Hey there's a sync bug or. [TS]

00:18:49   Hey you know you should really give me a delete. Preference. That's the stuff I need to hackle. That's like and. [TS]

00:18:56   My time is so much better spent doing that then setting up a support ticketing system [TS]

00:19:01   and our knowledge base on a forum in a public bug tracker at all these [TS]

00:19:04   and letting people vote on bugs like that's crazy. [TS]

00:19:07   That's just so much more work and overhead a more things to manage and maintain. [TS]

00:19:11   That's not really helping like UPS like to like the value of those things. Couple the people who were upset. [TS]

00:19:19   Basically said. It takes it takes me. [TS]

00:19:22   Time and effort to isolate these bugs to screenshot them to find out how to report them to make a bug report [TS]

00:19:30   and to send it. [TS]

00:19:31   And then I spend all that time [TS]

00:19:33   and effort doing what is essentially help I'm helping you Marco I'm spending my time to help you [TS]

00:19:37   and then you're not even going to send a reply. Makes me think that your time is more valuable. [TS]

00:19:42   You're saying your time is more valuable than mine. And you know. [TS]

00:19:46   The fact of life is the amount of effort you put into something does not equate to its value. [TS]

00:19:51   You can put a tremendous amount of effort into something and it just and turns up not being valuable. [TS]

00:19:55   Like you could try really hard to to make a fancy meal and. [TS]

00:20:00   You just burn the whole thing is like but I work so hard like yes but the. [TS]

00:20:03   The end result is just a burn thanks of you work really hard to make an awesome bugger. [TS]

00:20:07   Part on prompted by the way it's like you're demanding people to new bug reports [TS]

00:20:10   but you do this you're really you work really hard to make an awesome bug report. You send it. [TS]

00:20:15   If you're the nine hundred person to send that exact bug report the value of your bug report is very small it is really [TS]

00:20:20   just sort of like a tick up on the counter so marker knows a lot of people are seeing this problem. [TS]

00:20:24   You put a lot of work into it. Maybe if you were the first one there would be value. [TS]

00:20:28   But you know when you start multiplying it out it's like if you want. If you want any. [TS]

00:20:34   You're never going to add a comment [TS]

00:20:35   or reply Marco is never going to spend as much time responding to your as you spent sending it because it's not just a [TS]

00:20:40   one on one relationship between that you know one person makes all foreign born person uses it it's one person makes it [TS]

00:20:45   and lots of people use. Right so you can't. [TS]

00:20:48   Market doesn't get ten thousand days to reply to the email that ten thousand users send in one day. [TS]

00:20:54   Right and then your value of your of your email. [TS]

00:20:56   It really depends like maybe it is super valuable [TS]

00:20:59   and I bet if it was super valuably like oh I've never I never could reproduce is bug [TS]

00:21:03   and I didn't understand what people are seeing [TS]

00:21:05   and now you sending me all the stuff the stupid I bet Marco would reply that even though he says he doesn't reply to [TS]

00:21:09   email. No I said I don't reply to most email. [TS]

00:21:12   I do reply to things like that and so I've been doing this beta test this past week. [TS]

00:21:16   Where I have about eight hundred beta testers. Through Apple's test flight thing. [TS]

00:21:19   And I'm getting tons of e-mail from those testers. [TS]

00:21:22   And I'm answering as many of the possibly can of that group as I know that's like a separate group that's like. [TS]

00:21:27   I ask people to beta test. They are taking the time to install a and a relatively untested version on their device. [TS]

00:21:35   And they are writing up bug reports and send them to me. [TS]

00:21:38   And I am actually doing a lot of responding on those way above my. [TS]

00:21:43   My regular rate of responses on that it's I think probably over fifty percent that I'm responding to on the on those [TS]

00:21:49   and I. I honestly feel bad about the not respond to out of the beta group. [TS]

00:21:52   Because that seems like it should have a higher standard but without what that's like eight hundred people but [TS]

00:21:56   when you did the beta. On glass board it was like you know I don't know. [TS]

00:22:00   Twenty people or whatever it was and you're responding to all of them because you kind of could twenty to one right [TS]

00:22:05   and right. [TS]

00:22:06   The value of the first twenty people ever to use the application because Marco their reports are much more valuable [TS]

00:22:12   then the seven hundred person to send a sync bug right it doesn't mean there's no value to that thing but it's never. [TS]

00:22:19   You're never going to get a reply. That makes you. Makes you feel like the effort you spent. [TS]

00:22:26   Wasn't in some ways wasted because in some ways it was a waste. [TS]

00:22:29   You don't know whether it's going to be ways that you don't know if you are the very first person to send his bug [TS]

00:22:32   report or the nine hundred. You how can you know that you don't know what other people are sending right. [TS]

00:22:37   So I don't think you can have expectations about the sort of many to one relationship because you don't know what's [TS]

00:22:41   going on the other end of it into feels bad. [TS]

00:22:43   When you send a bug report the work hard on you know get any kind of reply at all which is why Hitler begging for like [TS]

00:22:48   just something anything an automated reply just like they're not asking you to spend them out of time they did [TS]

00:22:52   but they just want something like they're just desperate for something of course. [TS]

00:22:55   If you gave them that something they would say. I just need something a little bit more like this. [TS]

00:22:59   I automate a reply makes me feel like you don't care about my about my email. Maybe just an personal note. [TS]

00:23:04   Because I spent so much time on this and just. [TS]

00:23:06   I think that relationship is never going to work out where you want a response that. [TS]

00:23:11   That makes you feel good about the effort you spent [TS]

00:23:13   and it's like well then find our part bugs like that's a problem Mark about to do with a suddenly no one reports bugs [TS]

00:23:18   anymore. Or he gets only bad bug reports. Then he will actually have to take time to address it but that's. [TS]

00:23:23   You don't know what's happening as such you can't say that Marco has to do that it seems like he's getting enough bug [TS]

00:23:28   reports and feedback. [TS]

00:23:30   Yeah you know I already lost the exact words you used [TS]

00:23:32   but you said something along the lines of You can't have expectations for what Marco did in the relationship between [TS]

00:23:38   you and Marco is just some random you know bug reporter. [TS]

00:23:41   And I think that's absolutely true [TS]

00:23:42   and one of the things that one of the more common themes that was angry that I saw of the feedback that all of us got [TS]

00:23:50   was how could you not respond to this it only takes a moment to fire off an email be an automated or whatever and. [TS]

00:23:57   What I don't think people understand and this was the point me bringing up that story about me going to New York. [TS]

00:24:01   And in me not understanding why Marco didn't remember having read that email I sent him. Was. [TS]

00:24:07   I didn't understand the sheer volume of e-mail that someone in Marcus position can get. [TS]

00:24:14   And it wasn't until I got a lot of e-mail. Through the show that I started to understand it in. [TS]

00:24:20   And maybe some of these people that wrote us very angry about this did you understand it but I I suspect that. [TS]

00:24:26   Unless you're in a position where you're getting. [TS]

00:24:29   Hundreds of unsolicited e-mails a day that are not outright spam their e-mails that you should probably be reading. [TS]

00:24:35   Then it's hard to pass judgment on what any one of us particularly Marco should do because I find it challenging to [TS]

00:24:43   keep up with just a T.P. [TS]

00:24:44   Email [TS]

00:24:45   and that's a drop in the in the bucket compared to what Marco's getting from overcast so I think you're absolutely right [TS]

00:24:52   John. In any case we should talk about something that's awesome and. And if I'm the mistaken. [TS]

00:24:56   This is a particularly awesome something that's awesome is that right. [TS]

00:25:00   This episode is sponsored by Cards Against Humanity. [TS]

00:25:03   Now they didn't want us to read a typical sponsor ad what they did instead was send John a toaster. [TS]

00:25:13   THIS IS REALLY GET UP believe this is really happening. So John. They all they wanted to do for this ad read. [TS]

00:25:20   Was for you to review this toaster. Compared to your. You know the toaster. Although it can we set the stage here. [TS]

00:25:27   Since this is the first one. What. What is the toaster and. What is the particular reviewed toaster. [TS]

00:25:36   There's already not enough time for me to review the style is there a typical [TS]

00:25:39   and read slot thinking about it so much into context I think [TS]

00:25:43   when I say for the after show I will talk more about this toaster but OK. [TS]

00:25:47   The context is that I did a part of a while ago called how hypercritical. [TS]

00:25:51   One episode I talked about my difficulty finding a toaster that I found satisfying. In response to that episode. [TS]

00:25:58   A bunch of nice people got me as a sort of joke gift. Every D.C. [TS]

00:26:02   A fancy toaster that I probably would not have bought myself. [TS]

00:26:06   And that's the one I'm using right now that's the context of that's why. [TS]

00:26:09   That's why it's funny to parents sending me toasters to review. So I have received a toaster. [TS]

00:26:14   It is the Black and Decker. T. Capital. [TS]

00:26:20   One zero three S B I just want to know the model number has both catchy little model numbers about the capital Oh [TS]

00:26:27   and as hero in it. [TS]

00:26:32   This is a or they say for a slice tell us [TS]

00:26:34   and by the way these are all toaster ovens Please do not send me things about. [TS]

00:26:38   I should get a slot toaster I know about slot toasters again I mean I thought yes. [TS]

00:26:42   I know all about them slot toasters do not double as of and. I'm only interested in toaster oven. [TS]

00:26:47   You may be interested in fact toasters that's great get a slot toaster. They're really nice anyway. Toaster oven. [TS]

00:26:52   This one that's on the good things first toast bread. Reasonably evenly. [TS]

00:26:59   This is a big thing because a lot of them have like hot it is awesome and you get you know. [TS]

00:27:03   One side is pale [TS]

00:27:04   and one sided overtones that it toast them in about the same speed as my fancy Telstar will have the model number my [TS]

00:27:09   fancy toaster and a link to it and it shows as well so. Speed wise. It's good. [TS]

00:27:14   Capacity wise it is a smaller toaster but you know. [TS]

00:27:17   Size like it's not founded a fall for it takes a less room on the countertop It's also small on the inside that's fine. [TS]

00:27:23   Is relatively quiet. [TS]

00:27:25   Be surprised at the noises toasters make particularly [TS]

00:27:27   when you just turn them on them a kind of like a transformer wine kind of like man. [TS]

00:27:32   That would that is because they all kind of like have that buzz. [TS]

00:27:35   It's not someone doctoring right isn't helpful or designer maybe it's an inverter [TS]

00:27:39   or something whatever it is the sound the sound gets lower as the thing heats up as only being this one is admirably [TS]

00:27:44   quiet. This one does have a thing that takes a sort of a ticking countdown thing until it gets to the end like a bomb. [TS]

00:27:52   Yeah. That's usually like that. [TS]

00:27:53   You know if you listen to that have occurred to me complaining about that the taking thing. [TS]

00:27:58   But this is at least as a very quiet. Right. That's. And you know the oven. [TS]

00:28:02   I use a thing for toast [TS]

00:28:04   and for warming stuff I'm recording things the other part seems to work line overall is pretty good [TS]

00:28:08   but the bad things about her are some of the same bad things about most modern toasters. [TS]

00:28:13   The thing has three dials on the front of it and to toast anything. You have to put the top dial. To toast. [TS]

00:28:19   You have to build the middle doubt to toast [TS]

00:28:20   and you have to put the bottom dial to the amount that you want to toast it and dials. All these are not good dials. [TS]

00:28:26   Died own styles that are still completely smooth [TS]

00:28:32   and have like a little you know a thing showing you where it's also be pointing. [TS]

00:28:35   On the top of the dial but there raise like an inch off so you can't tell where quite where it's aiming [TS]

00:28:39   and that's important because anything with a dial. [TS]

00:28:41   You have to turn it to a degree that you memorize thirty six degrees thirty seven degrees thirty eight whatever it is [TS]

00:28:46   the amount that exactly toast the bread to the darkness that you want every time you toast a piece of bread. [TS]

00:28:52   You have to turn the dial that exact amount. [TS]

00:28:53   If you're off by a little bit it won't be tell it's enough or will be toasted too much before the thing goes off. [TS]

00:28:58   This is a terrible time for toasters. The Remember when they used to be when we were kids. [TS]

00:29:02   You would have a darkness knob that you could set and then you press a little thing down. [TS]

00:29:06   And then it would pop up when it's done right like the little things. [TS]

00:29:09   Yes you could you could set the do it the way you light it and be repeatable. [TS]

00:29:13   Right and then it's just like one after Down down down down on this. [TS]

00:29:16   This thing with the knob it's just not going to go [TS]

00:29:18   and then having to set the other three knobs if you have the top not set to the wrong thing [TS]

00:29:21   or the middle knobs up to the wrong thing. [TS]

00:29:23   You can turn that toasting to the right degree [TS]

00:29:25   but it won't do the right thing because all you didn't realize was on Baker something [TS]

00:29:28   and if you want to use the bake thing you've got turn the bottom dial to stay on setting and then to the top to die. [TS]

00:29:34   How can you make this. They only have a little bit of an area for you I like. [TS]

00:29:40   I don't know how you go this far wrong with the toaster interface. [TS]

00:29:45   For four months was this toaster gets the job done in fact I was really nicely surprised by how well it did all the [TS]

00:29:51   jobs as well as my big fancy Telstar. But user interface was this is not good at all. [TS]

00:29:56   And it's worth pointing out to you that this is on Amazon currently It's forty three dollars which is very inexpensive [TS]

00:30:01   for a toaster oven brand new. You know the fancy ones like like the one you have are about two hundred dollars. [TS]

00:30:08   So for forty three dollars That's a pretty good bye. I don't have to build quality of this fifty dollar toaster. [TS]

00:30:13   Embarrasses my two hundred dollar toaster in some areas. [TS]

00:30:16   So Black and Decker does make very soft like even the dials which I don't like because they're smooth [TS]

00:30:21   and don't have a way for you to tell like where you're pointing. Because the pointing is so far off the surface. [TS]

00:30:26   The dial in this one feel better than the dollars in my two hundred dollar toaster which I complained about [TS]

00:30:29   when I talk about that toaster. Right there just dish and because many dilution of this conflict you think. [TS]

00:30:36   What's your final verdict. He loved it. [TS]

00:30:39   I did I mean how many touches of I had my life I'm not the wire cutter here I've had my old. [TS]

00:30:44   I have my old toaster that I replace with the fancy toaster. [TS]

00:30:47   I like my fancy toaster better than this [TS]

00:30:49   but my family does yours like four times the price so damn well better be better than this my fancy saucers probably [TS]

00:30:54   not four times better than this. But you know. Of all the toasters I've used in my life. [TS]

00:30:58   This is the second best but the interface is still terrible. [TS]

00:31:01   Well thank you very much to cards against this is this is entirely their ideas thank you very much the cards against [TS]

00:31:08   humanity. For sponsoring our show. Got such a funny idea. [TS]

00:31:13   Well I don't even know where to go from here how we've done is that it should have been a sweet home not the wire [TS]

00:31:19   cutters are not going to my brand. Real time follow you know carry. [TS]

00:31:25   Now one of the Terran caught it alland someone of the charm did say I don't understand why is not you just want us to [TS]

00:31:29   for crying out loud. How much damage I have good for people not. I understand what a slot doctorate. [TS]

00:31:35   I know all about it. We're not talking about I just I can't. You can not get the slot poster people are just. [TS]

00:31:41   Unstoppable. [TS]

00:31:43   Why would you want a slot so starting but they're fine if you want to slot those as good [TS]

00:31:47   when you can know their terror. Their worst everything you are not a no they're better toast. [TS]

00:31:51   The better you can kind of. You can tell it's faster and they have a thing that you press down like that. [TS]

00:31:56   If you just want to make toast. [TS]

00:31:58   I think flawed toasters a better bet as long as you never want to toast anything that is crumbling or thick [TS]

00:32:02   or non-symmetrical on both sides you know yeah. [TS]

00:32:05   You would you would have to have a toaster oven as well but if you have a very large kitchen [TS]

00:32:08   and with a lot of counter space. You know. [TS]

00:32:10   Then you can have a toaster oven a slot toaster convection oven on microwave oven in the Baltic whatever I did not have [TS]

00:32:16   that kitchen at seven of and the various shapes and sizes. Many different knob types on the front. [TS]

00:32:21   I love that all these people in the chat room are going to Zurich about this law testers Yes they may be plainly [TS]

00:32:25   superior for toasting like John said [TS]

00:32:27   but I still get a Bible I will concede that point well I'm not saying that's true [TS]

00:32:31   but if each let's let's take it is writ that that is true even if that is true. [TS]

00:32:36   There are so many good zillions of things you can do with a toaster oven that you can't do with a freakin slot. [TS]

00:32:41   If I had a big kitchen I would have both. But I do not have big kitchen. So I don't have both. [TS]

00:32:44   That's it man it's just a concern that I wasn't expecting to it do we have any actual topics for the WHO JUST ADDED is [TS]

00:32:52   that you said the neutrality thing. Marketed and what do you know something about it. Well I just haven't. [TS]

00:32:59   I just have an incredibly under informed opinion like usual. Oh well that nothing changes. So the F.C.C. [TS]

00:33:06   Released an announcement of some kind of. [TS]

00:33:09   What exactly did they do just an announcement of what they want to do or that's why. [TS]

00:33:13   I didn't pay enough attention to it because like I still cynically assume that we're being screwed just now in a more. [TS]

00:33:19   Hard to detect way and B. [TS]

00:33:21   I didn't I didn't think this announcement had anything to do with like we would really like this to happen in the [TS]

00:33:25   political realities will kick in and nothing was actually happening right so. [TS]

00:33:28   So basically to give some very under informed background on this topic. The F.C.C. [TS]

00:33:35   Which is a far as well for regulating US telecom [TS]

00:33:38   and broadband stuff like that they have previously classified broadband as a. [TS]

00:33:44   I think the data service and what they rather than a telecom services like that and basically. [TS]

00:33:51   If it's for telecom services like the phone lines to your house there's much more strict regulations. Over what. [TS]

00:33:57   How much control the carriers are allowed to exert over that. [TS]

00:34:01   How much they're allowed to basically screw people and put limits and controls and [TS]

00:34:05   and interfere with what's being telegraphed over the line things like that. [TS]

00:34:09   Internet service by almost any kind of common sense definition. Sounds like that is like. [TS]

00:34:16   If you ask people like Should Internet service be regulated. Like phone service. In these ways. [TS]

00:34:23   Most people would say yes that makes sense of course it should be. And it hasn't been yet and the F.C.C. [TS]

00:34:28   Has tried a couple of little things to kind of like have to send a little bit like to say well we want you to have net [TS]

00:34:35   neutrality most of the time but we're not going to go all the way and classify you as this. [TS]

00:34:40   And then they get sued by the I S P's and and they have to roll that back. So generally speaking. The F.C.C. [TS]

00:34:48   Has been very weak on this. And even like six months ago. Recently. [TS]

00:34:52   Like they the Chairman Tom Wheeler basically came out and said he didn't think they need to read That's. [TS]

00:34:58   A fire at the way phone lines are a few weeks after that President Obama made some statement about it [TS]

00:35:05   and how he was basically opposing the F.C.C. Chairman who. I think a stance of the he appointed. Right now is right. [TS]

00:35:12   Obama basically over. Like politically overrode not legally but he'll he'll be politically said. [TS]

00:35:18   I think differently on this very publicly and then of course the you know the geek population like us. [TS]

00:35:25   Is very strongly against the as he sees previous position like we want to be regulated. The way phone services. [TS]

00:35:31   Title I have title to has. [TS]

00:35:33   And I don't know all the details of like you know what parts of title to all of it none of it. But anyway. [TS]

00:35:38   And so so so you had a situation where he actually says F.C.C. Says one thing Obama. [TS]

00:35:42   A few weeks or months later says another thing. [TS]

00:35:44   And then it came up again in the state of the Union address last month where Obama talked about again. [TS]

00:35:49   How he was on the side of net neutrality which was directly contradicting the F.C.C. Use. Most recent statements. [TS]

00:35:55   This week. F.C.C. [TS]

00:35:57   Chairman Tom Wheeler comes out [TS]

00:35:58   and says Oh I changed my mind we're going to try to we're going to seek this classification now. [TS]

00:36:03   And this guy like you know he has previous ties to the cable industry and it's a pretty great to what degree that is [TS]

00:36:09   but he does have some previous ties to the cable industry. Well than him lobbyist for the cable industry. Something. [TS]

00:36:14   It was. [TS]

00:36:15   It was kind of it was a little bit less severe than that in practice [TS]

00:36:19   but it's like he there's some kind of connection there. [TS]

00:36:22   So you know he comes from the cable industry so having him be the head of the F.C.C. [TS]

00:36:25   Is kind of suspect OK Well while why wouldn't he just fight for the rights of the people who previously employed him [TS]

00:36:32   and will probably employ him in the future. [TS]

00:36:33   So anyway that you know that's the whole revolving door thing that's big problem anyway. The problem is. [TS]

00:36:39   He says one thing. You know last year or whenever. All of a sudden president says I disagree. [TS]

00:36:45   A few months later all of the F.C.C. Is now seeking something else. This feels a lot like just posturing. [TS]

00:36:52   And just empty promises. [TS]

00:36:54   Because you know Obama said that whether he believes it [TS]

00:36:57   or not he said it because it was popular among his base he kind of had to say it. OK. He's now. [TS]

00:37:01   He had to probably put pressure on Tom Wheeler to kind of get in line with with him and his party [TS]

00:37:06   and everything because like it's kind of weird if your appointed as his he chairman is like directly. [TS]

00:37:11   Disagreeing with the president and his policies of. That's kind of weak so it feels like posturing. [TS]

00:37:18   It feels like putting on a good show for the voters. [TS]

00:37:22   But what's going to happen like nothing's going to change tomorrow. You know what's going to happen is the F.C.C. [TS]

00:37:29   Might pursue this in some way. It's going to be going back and forth for months if not years of like drafting. [TS]

00:37:35   What the rules will even be. And then try to put them in place and then. [TS]

00:37:40   Vera's uncommon cast all the big guys P's are probably going to sue the F.C.C. [TS]

00:37:44   or Sue the government to try to get these rules overturned. [TS]

00:37:47   And that's going to go through courts for months or for years [TS]

00:37:50   and possibly go to the Supreme Court eventually like it's. [TS]

00:37:52   This is this is going to be a long process this is how the legal system works with this kind of stuff. [TS]

00:37:57   It's going to be a very long process. And he can say whatever. Tom Wheeler can say whatever he wants today. [TS]

00:38:04   He can say oh we're going to seek this receipt these rules but over time those are going to be negotiated [TS]

00:38:08   and weekend and possibly overturned by court decision. [TS]

00:38:11   So it's hard to say this really means a lot right now like this might turn into something good down the road. [TS]

00:38:18   But it's going to be a very long time before. In all likelihood before anything really can come of it. [TS]

00:38:25   If anything comes it comes of it at all and will probably happen. Which is what happens most of the time. [TS]

00:38:30   These kind of moves. Is it will probably be watered down or completely thrown out before. Before it ever takes effect. [TS]

00:38:36   And the public will notice we would have moved on to some other stupid P.R. Thing. [TS]

00:38:39   So you're looking forward to it and you're sure it's going to work. That's it. [TS]

00:38:45   I'm so Senekal about these things because like just even if you don't know any of the details. [TS]

00:38:51   The broad strokes are in your thing or roughly. [TS]

00:38:56   You know roughly correct like that the person Obama appointed to the F.C.C. [TS]

00:39:02   Jabbers and did not like a campaign on the idea of like. Don't you know. [TS]

00:39:08   It was against the revolving door don't take people from the industries [TS]

00:39:12   and then appoint them to regulate the industries that they came from [TS]

00:39:14   and are going back to that's a bad thing if the anti-pattern to use our lingo. [TS]

00:39:18   We shouldn't do that and I did that offensively did that same thing with the F.C.C. Chairman although and T.V. [TS]

00:39:25   and In the chat room. [TS]

00:39:27   Says that this is not the case at all and I don't know what we're getting wrong about that [TS]

00:39:31   but like it was interesting person I doesn't mean all people who are in the industry are bad or evil [TS]

00:39:35   or whatever it just means like. It's kind of all things like if there's an appearance of impropriety. [TS]

00:39:39   It's like trying to avoid even the appearance. Rather than. You know going on an individual basis like just you know. [TS]

00:39:45   You know I mean like. So you know that you're He's the optics of the sorbet. [TS]

00:39:49   You took someone from the industry and you [TS]

00:39:51   and you put them in charge of something that has a big influence on the industry say well this president upstanding [TS]

00:39:55   they're not going to be influenced [TS]

00:39:56   and even if they do go back to work an issue doesn't negative it's like just the appearance of it is not good right. [TS]

00:40:01   So that starts off on the wrong foot. [TS]

00:40:03   And then to see that person say things in that position that make the telecom and you know cable industries happy. [TS]

00:40:11   Like if you are regulating it astri. If you're doing things that make the industry or regulating happy. [TS]

00:40:17   You're probably doing your job wrong. [TS]

00:40:20   No matter what it is like if you are in charge of regulating the food safety industry if you're in charge of regulating [TS]

00:40:27   trucking if you're anything like no matter what you are in charge of regulating. If the things. [TS]

00:40:32   It's the companies [TS]

00:40:33   or the industries your regulating are happy about what you're doing it is almost certainly the wrong thing to do. [TS]

00:40:38   Unless maybe you're rolling back another regulation that was like went too far or whatever but like. If they're happy. [TS]

00:40:45   You know especially with these giant industries that have near monopolies like telecom. [TS]

00:40:52   If they are happy something is wrong because they are never happy about things that help consumers their own ways happy [TS]

00:40:57   about things that make them more powerful and that screw consumers. So that like. [TS]

00:41:03   You don't even need to get in it he details unlike theories about the free market over all you have to do is say is [TS]

00:41:09   Verizon happy is a theme to happy. Do they love this. [TS]

00:41:12   Then it's almost certainly the wrong thing to do now you have to balance it was a like well you're not going to make [TS]

00:41:17   the miserable but like you know you can't just regulate them to death and strangled industries believe me. [TS]

00:41:22   Known as strangling telecom. [TS]

00:41:24   Like I could now we can't have any telecom companies all telecom companies have closed up shop that is leaving their [TS]

00:41:29   wires hanging in the trees and just no one's going to use them anymore because it's overregulated know the direction. [TS]

00:41:35   Everything has been going to town tree has been decreasing regulation which has good sides and bad sides [TS]

00:41:40   and again you can even talk about the details but just as a general rule of thumb. [TS]

00:41:44   If you don't need to look at consumers don't their consumers happy consumers don't know what's going on these things [TS]

00:41:49   all happen behind closed doors consumers have no idea that happened since I've no idea what the effects are [TS]

00:41:53   but the industry loves it. Stop stop and look and say wait a second. They loved this. [TS]

00:41:58   What the hell are we doing our job is what they should hate us our job it's like being the principal at a school like [TS]

00:42:02   our the assistant principal like. If everybody loves you you're not in posing enough discipline. Right now. [TS]

00:42:08   Everybody doesn't have to hate you but if everyone's like yeah everything you do is awesome. Whew like you know that. [TS]

00:42:14   That's that's not a right to say you know our parenting like. [TS]

00:42:17   If your kids love every decision you make your probably failing them and or you have a perfect child. [TS]

00:42:23   Which could happen. Anyway. [TS]

00:42:27   That's what I feel about the things that's why I don't get too caught up in the details maybe I'm too cynical about it. [TS]

00:42:32   I think I did you know every time this comes up I do do whatever things I have online to like I was send a letter to [TS]

00:42:37   your congressperson send put a comment on the you know requests for commas I do all that stuff. [TS]

00:42:43   So I'm not so cynical that think I can't participate in the process and everything and of course. [TS]

00:42:47   You know I vote [TS]

00:42:48   and the people I vote for are as close as possible to being in agreement with me on to the sions like this. But it's. [TS]

00:42:55   And many cases this is simply impossible because they receive a two party system to find any candidate who agrees with [TS]

00:43:00   you even remotely anthem. Someone answers like this but you do what you can but anyway. I guess what. [TS]

00:43:09   All right so let's move on real quick. We hear that Apple may or may not be involved in a mapping service. [TS]

00:43:17   Do you want to talk about this John. I put it in there. Because it was on the BEEN side. [TS]

00:43:24   And wasn't Dalrymple that said it but like when I saw the stories it's like oh. [TS]

00:43:28   Someone has some random spot shot of a van with crap on top of it. And they say it's from Apple. [TS]

00:43:36   And then I and you know I saw that story like yeah whatever. And I don't you know. [TS]

00:43:41   Don't really pay attention and then I saw that the loop had it. [TS]

00:43:44   And I went to it hoping it would be down ripple giving one of his Yep or Nope. An hour is expecting it to be a nope. [TS]

00:43:51   Because I don't think Apple's market itself driving cars. [TS]

00:43:54   But he didn't even write it so this in as no thing one way that I feel like he would want to write there was that Shaun [TS]

00:43:59   King that did that one. [TS]

00:44:00   I feel like if you knew he would have grabbed that one and thrown a note but he didn't and but the story did point out. [TS]

00:44:07   And I think it is a much more plausible theory. [TS]

00:44:09   This is not Apple self driving cars this is just apples answer to Street View which we've talked about in many past [TS]

00:44:13   those the episode numbers of which I absolutely cannot remember about things that Apple's bad at more of them is the [TS]

00:44:20   audacity to do something I Google Street View where it's like you. [TS]

00:44:23   We have overhead maps and everything [TS]

00:44:24   but wouldn't every great if we could have street level views of stuff like well how are you going to get street level [TS]

00:44:30   views are I think what if we just put cameras on top of cars and drive them in every road in the entire United States. [TS]

00:44:35   And that's something that would come up in a Google meeting there was a. [TS]

00:44:38   All right let's do that and by the scan every book in existence but you might get those cars on the road and drive and. [TS]

00:44:43   You know where that Apple Apple is not an organization that does things like that to conceive things like that [TS]

00:44:50   and that executes them. But when they took up on the job of doing maps like well. [TS]

00:44:56   It's going to take you a long time to catch up to Google maps if you ever do. [TS]

00:45:00   And you don't have anything like street view [TS]

00:45:01   and if you want something a street view Google's not going to give it to you you're going to have to do what they did [TS]

00:45:05   which is really hard. I desperately hope that that is an apple. Equivalent of Street View car. [TS]

00:45:11   Piloting a program that's going to use some of that seventy eight hundred seventy billion dollars to drive on every [TS]

00:45:16   road to the United States are actually everywhere in the world taking pictures or everything. [TS]

00:45:20   And that their pictures will be higher resolution than it was because they do it later with better technology know the [TS]

00:45:24   stuff. I desperately hope that's what it is and not just some cleaning van with weird stuff on the roof. [TS]

00:45:29   Yeah me too because it is. [TS]

00:45:32   It's unfortunate that there are these like handful of major areas where Apple [TS]

00:45:38   and Apple's customers are still really depended on Google for things [TS]

00:45:41   and it obviously Apple does not really want to be that way if they can help it. [TS]

00:45:46   And some of these like web search with general purpose web search of find this phrase on the entire Internet. [TS]

00:45:53   I don't think Apple can tackle that if it's somebody post there is a job posting for Apple search on some some Apple [TS]

00:45:58   and Apple jobsite and just want to be able to find a game on the App Store and. Yeah yeah I mean like. [TS]

00:46:04   You know I I don't think the apple search thing was about web search I think it's just like searching other things that [TS]

00:46:08   Apple needs to meet needs to be searchable. But. You know the. [TS]

00:46:13   The certain areas of maps [TS]

00:46:15   and street view is probably the biggest one that you know the mapping data is pretty close now. [TS]

00:46:20   You know to obviously this is this will vary depending on where you live. [TS]

00:46:23   But I have found Apple's mapping data to be pretty good. The biggest problems I have with Apple Maps. [TS]

00:46:29   That still exist today are lack of Street View. [TS]

00:46:31   And that the business listings are pretty weak compared to Google's of the Googles are not perfect you know this is [TS]

00:46:36   it's a lot of people say like oh well Apple's business. Business listings. [TS]

00:46:40   Once brought me to some terrible out of date. [TS]

00:46:42   Listing of the thing didn't exist anymore wasn't that wasn't their movie whatever. [TS]

00:46:47   Google's business data is not perfect either this is kind of like when people try a different cellular carrier. [TS]

00:46:53   And they forget how bad their other one was or how spotty ringgit system it wasn't certain areas. And they run back. [TS]

00:46:58   And then forget about how bad you know it's. [TS]

00:47:01   It's kind of grass is always greener but like with a little bit longer term memory involved. So like. [TS]

00:47:07   Like you know just like no subtler carrier including your beloved horizon everybody is actually consistently great [TS]

00:47:13   everywhere. Similar to that no mapping data from any of the services. Is consistently perfect. And no business. [TS]

00:47:21   Place name data is consistently perfect in the from these places. [TS]

00:47:24   You know certainly I think I think Google is a still better. You know I guess. Neither. These A Perfect. [TS]

00:47:29   Google's a still better. And anything Apple can do to close that gap in the business data. [TS]

00:47:34   And to provide the missing features like street view. That is very beneficial to them. [TS]

00:47:39   Strategically long term I think they need to do things like that they need to. [TS]

00:47:44   They need to get total independence from the need for Google services on their devices [TS]

00:47:48   and they've come very far they're like they're almost there. In many areas. [TS]

00:47:53   But they're still a few things that they're that they're really kind of stuck with and I think. [TS]

00:47:57   Street View and good met business place data is probably up there. Do you think that the people who are zealots. [TS]

00:48:06   About slot loaded toasters. Are the same Verizon people that won't shut up. [TS]

00:48:11   You know people with so I saw the toasters are so bad they. [TS]

00:48:16   You can't really discuss a pizza with anything in there you know that's not true. [TS]

00:48:19   What did you tell us about some That's cool. Our second sponsor this week is fracture. [TS]

00:48:25   Fracture print your photo in vivid color. Directly onto glass. Go to fracture Me dot com. To hear more about that. [TS]

00:48:33   I have fractures. All over the office. I really do that I have a sci fi. The I have five within view right now. [TS]

00:48:41   These are great prints so it's their photo printer. [TS]

00:48:44   And they print the photos on the squares or rectangles of glass and. [TS]

00:48:48   It just mounts directly to your wall however you want to consider the desk [TS]

00:48:52   or whatever they include even the wall the wall anchor for your little desk down every ordered. [TS]

00:48:57   They include everything everything is in the box. Print quality is great. [TS]

00:49:02   It looks fantastic and my favorite part is that it doesn't need a frame or anything like. If you're OK. [TS]

00:49:06   If you're an adult and you're decorating like a room as an adult. You don't want to just like pin a poster on the wall. [TS]

00:49:13   You want to look nice. So you know generally the way you do those are putting in a frame. You can. [TS]

00:49:20   You can do custom frame that's very expensive. [TS]

00:49:23   And with fracture this is great fracture Prince like there borderless kisses edge to edge with the picture. [TS]

00:49:29   Printed on the back on the backside of this like then piece of glass an amount on carb or anyway. [TS]

00:49:34   So it looks like the picture is just right there on the glass. [TS]

00:49:36   Because it is literally printed on the back side of the glass so. Fracture prints look so good. [TS]

00:49:42   You don't need to have them framed in fact I don't even know if you could. [TS]

00:49:45   And for the price of the print for what you're getting for that. It's an incredibly good deal compared to a nice frame. [TS]

00:49:52   Very very good deal. And it includes the print and. It's all right there in the box everything you need. [TS]

00:49:57   It looks clean it looks modern It looks great I get so many comments on this from these prints. [TS]

00:50:02   I really can't stand up with things about fractals why I keep ordering from them. Anyway. [TS]

00:50:07   Prices started just fifteen bucks for a five by five inch square. [TS]

00:50:11   Look [TS]

00:50:11   and that's that's the size I use for my app I conference we've mentioned before so I actually for the for the icons earth. [TS]

00:50:18   Icons of the absence of worked on. [TS]

00:50:20   I have little fracture five by five inch prince of those hanging on the was like a select trophy row what I've done. [TS]

00:50:26   Anyway every fracture print is handmade and checked for quality. [TS]

00:50:29   By a small team that runs fracture in Gainesville Florida. [TS]

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00:50:40   Fifteen which also lets them know that you came from the shows a fifteen percent off first order. Coupon Code A.T.P. [TS]

00:50:45   Fifteen. At fracture Me dot com Thanks a lot of pressure for sponsor our show once again. [TS]

00:50:51   You know I just want to pipe in real quickly that we talk so often about the five by five sized ones [TS]

00:50:56   but we've gotten a couple of the. I think they call them regular size. [TS]

00:51:02   It's pretty wide I feel like a foot foot half widen. Maybe a foot tall. [TS]

00:51:07   And those look beautiful as well it's not just the tiny ones. So. [TS]

00:51:11   Don't don't feel like you who have been a you should limit yourself just to those [TS]

00:51:15   but they they really do look amazing like Marco said yeah that the big ones I have to the big ones above my monitor of. [TS]

00:51:20   That's love him and well that's true I forgot those fractures. You know that's a good call. [TS]

00:51:25   Arts we had a question from listener Ben which I thought was kind of interesting. And he said. [TS]

00:51:31   Would really like to hear more about the overcast back and some day. [TS]

00:51:35   As an example of what it takes to run a modern app beyond what you upload to the OP store. [TS]

00:51:40   There's a lot of places to learn about how to design and code a nap but most examples are standalone [TS]

00:51:44   and overcast has some really interesting infrastructure behind it and it seems like it could be a good example for it. [TS]

00:51:49   For example where the host of V P S S N Y. [TS]

00:51:52   How much will the go switch end up saving although I think you've talked about that a bit [TS]

00:51:56   and wondered what other tools are in use. [TS]

00:51:59   Yeah I mean I don't want to go too far to the purpose for going to be boring but. I host at line owed and. [TS]

00:52:04   I have used a lot of web hosts over the years. A lot. [TS]

00:52:08   I mean I've been hosting stuff on on web hosts since two thousand. [TS]

00:52:13   So it's over the years you know when when posting business. [TS]

00:52:16   As a lot lot of companies come and go technology changes over time you know. [TS]

00:52:20   So I've probably been at ten fifteen hosts over that over that time and through Big [TS]

00:52:25   and Small through my own personal site although it's a tumbler scale [TS]

00:52:29   and lot of things in between line node is overall the best host I've used [TS]

00:52:34   and there are certain areas in which other hosts are better. [TS]

00:52:37   But line owed like before this past fall they did a major if they meet did a major hardware upgrade where they have [TS]

00:52:44   created the speeds of all of their all their base systems and their networking [TS]

00:52:46   and they change their plans little bit and and. It is now an incredibly good deal for what. [TS]

00:52:51   For the for the power that you get before that it was a decent deal [TS]

00:52:56   but it was an amazing now it's really a very strong value. [TS]

00:53:00   So why note compared to other kinds of hostings aligner does V P S's only and [TS]

00:53:05   and I think they're all on managed I don't know if they offer a manic service at Eve doesn't matter I use I use a mag [TS]

00:53:09   so it doesn't matter to me but. Unmanaged meaning that it's all on you would take care of everything. [TS]

00:53:15   Where is managed means there's people monitoring it and trying to do a. [TS]

00:53:19   You know kind of first level troubleshooting is that all correct. [TS]

00:53:22   Yeah and so for a while in the early days of David villain tumbler. [TS]

00:53:27   We had manic servers at Rackspace and Rackspace at the time and I don't I mean this was two thousand [TS]

00:53:33   and six two thousand and seven so I don't know how it is now. [TS]

00:53:36   At the time they were really considered like the best of the business for managed servers and. [TS]

00:53:41   I think they only sold miniatures times they were very expensive it was like a hundred bucks a month for a server for [TS]

00:53:47   like a mid-range server which is very expensive. Even back then it was very expensive. You know. [TS]

00:53:51   We had managed that and what I found overall. [TS]

00:53:55   What it promises is things like well you know if your disk fill up will go. [TS]

00:53:58   You know Will will notice that I will go in there and clean it up or. [TS]

00:54:01   If your database of being hammered by some runaway process or some terrible query on something we can go [TS]

00:54:06   and not the might for you and fix it and. In practice. That was spotty. [TS]

00:54:12   It that was very inconsistent the quality of service we got from that was inconsistent. Most of the time. [TS]

00:54:18   It was ultimately on us to fix the problem. [TS]

00:54:20   You know it was like well they could tell us oh well your problem is you have a lot of requests coming in well yeah. [TS]

00:54:28   Thanks. Most of the time. It wasn't particularly useful. [TS]

00:54:33   And maybe that's just because we're a programmer so like we knew we knew had the basics of system a mystery [TS]

00:54:38   and we didn't need them to install Apache for us you know stuff like that like we could figure that out on our own. [TS]

00:54:45   You know so it depends on like on what. [TS]

00:54:47   What kind of skill level you need these days if you need more hand-holding from them [TS]

00:54:52   and you need them to do more things for you. [TS]

00:54:55   These days you're probably not looking at servers at all you're probably looking at managed cloud services which are [TS]

00:55:00   which have higher abstraction [TS]

00:55:02   and everything else that's kind of a story of the industry's very different these days as it was in two thousand [TS]

00:55:06   and six but there's a CLI I use why node because it has a very very good value. And a surprisingly good control panel. [TS]

00:55:14   Like web. Men web hosting control panels are kind of like non a glue internets. [TS]

00:55:24   I'll my God web hosting programs are usually so awful and. [TS]

00:55:29   It seems like every web host in the world is just totally incapable of making one. [TS]

00:55:34   That is remotely usable [TS]

00:55:35   and even has ever been slightly thought out of how people actually use it with a very small number of exceptions [TS]

00:55:43   and why note is one of them figure lotions a decent but why nose is still by far more fully functional. [TS]

00:55:48   I've tried of the things I've tried to get a lower than a credit couple of other ones. [TS]

00:55:52   I keep going back to I know it because it is just a really fantastic value for what it is. [TS]

00:55:58   Which is unmanaged B.P.'s is. [TS]

00:56:01   So if you need some other kind of serve [TS]

00:56:03   or some other kind of service some other kind of hosting that's not our manager B.P.'s. [TS]

00:56:08   I can really help you that's I haven't bought those I don't really know what the market is like for those. [TS]

00:56:14   The reason I do what I do is because I know enough about system ministration that I can remain on servers. [TS]

00:56:20   I know how to do it in a way that. That does not put a lot of burden on me is very low maintenance like. [TS]

00:56:25   I'm not being welcomed in the middle of night to deal with a server problem like that's. [TS]

00:56:28   I know how to do it now so that doesn't happen. [TS]

00:56:30   And it honestly was not hard these days because service so frickin fast these days. And I use. [TS]

00:56:36   Old boring tools like my school. So it's my S.Q.L. For all the crap it gets. [TS]

00:56:41   I have never had a problem it was my fuels fault. Ever. It all of tumbler. All of Instapaper. [TS]

00:56:46   Everything I've done on the side. Between then since then the now. And now all of overcast. [TS]

00:56:50   I have used my askew also and if it was before the show. I've used my S.Q.L. [TS]

00:56:53   So heavily in so many different figuration. I've never had a problem that was my skew off fault. [TS]

00:57:00   I've never had my eyes filled with in the middle of night. I've never even had a crash in use. [TS]

00:57:04   I've never seen them I feel a process crash. Like that's it's incredible it's so if you. [TS]

00:57:09   If you are fairly conservative with your tools if you use boring stuff like sent O.-S. Linux and my S.Q.L. and. P.H.P. [TS]

00:57:18   or Python like you know some kind of like boring language it's been around for a while you can be pretty good you can [TS]

00:57:23   be pretty safe and it can be pretty pretty low low involvement over time. [TS]

00:57:28   You know you have some time to set it up and then you're done. And modern P.P.S. [TS]

00:57:31   Have these great tools for like making custom set up images cloning. [TS]

00:57:35   Point in time backups and branching recovery all discrete objects can do now is with all these cool virtual i services. [TS]

00:57:42   It's really better than it used to be it's way easier than it used to be and to way way. Cheaper than it used to be so. [TS]

00:57:48   The reason I do it even though there are always these cloud services that are also available. Now is for that cost. [TS]

00:57:55   Is that like. You know I set my own push out of. Shows. If I have a. If I had a service that sent push notifications. [TS]

00:58:03   It would cost thousands of dollars a month for the volume I sent thousands like. [TS]

00:58:07   So much for me to do it on line i would cost like forty bucks a month worth server time maybe at most probably less [TS]

00:58:13   than that. I mean it's a massive to end its weekly you know. [TS]

00:58:17   A day to figure out how to how to send them in code myself like it wasn't that big of a deal like. [TS]

00:58:22   So much of the stuff. [TS]

00:58:24   I feel like people shy away from because and these are developers like you're able to make an app which is not easy. [TS]

00:58:32   Like you know it's easy in the in the grand scheme of things that the easier than doing manual labor all day. [TS]

00:58:36   And you know it's easier than solving Kryptos or whatever [TS]

00:58:39   but you know it's in the grand scheme of things if you can figure out how to how to make software of any kind. [TS]

00:58:45   You can administer basic stuff on a server. It Like It's really not that hard it might just be unfamiliar to you. [TS]

00:58:51   But just like any language or platform or new A.P.I. You can learn it. It's not that big of a deal. [TS]

00:58:55   You can save so much money and you can do so many powerful things. Once you. [TS]

00:59:00   Once you are open to the idea of you know what. Maybe I will let myself. Run a web service. [TS]

00:59:06   The doors it opens for you to me are are usually the vast majority of the time usually worth it for the. [TS]

00:59:14   The time and stress and expense of running your own servers. [TS]

00:59:19   I have nothing to add to that so that's pretty straightforward now. You would you mind recapping. [TS]

00:59:28   What the GO SEE things were the. When you change the feed crawler to go. Yeah it was like couple hundred bucks a month. [TS]

00:59:37   That's significant for sure the I my my total lie node bill is. [TS]

00:59:41   I gotta look I'm still moving stuff around like with images and everything so one thing I do with overcast. [TS]

00:59:46   Is because every pod cast has the album artwork image that it. That it defines its feet. [TS]

00:59:54   I Tunes want those to be fourteen hundred pixels square. So they're huge. [TS]

00:59:58   And because I'm dealing with arbitrary podcast Remember Terry people. Many people many pockets producers. [TS]

01:00:05   Don't particularly optimize that file size he might have like this album artwork that's a meg or. [TS]

01:00:13   It's like it's a P N G When it's actually the photo so it compresses very badly or you know something like that [TS]

01:00:18   or they or it's a j peg of the biggest saved on twelve quality. And you know. [TS]

01:00:22   So sometimes you have these massive files. And in the context of overcast I don't really need those. I need them. [TS]

01:00:29   Only really as the i Pad artwork and every other context. Things like search results. [TS]

01:00:34   Even just adding things you don't need the files with that big and a lot of times. [TS]

01:00:38   Like people who subscribe to a lot of pod cast they might have like hundreds of megabytes of album artwork to download [TS]

01:00:43   that's no good. So what I do as part of my hosting is. I prophesy and serve all album art images in overcast. [TS]

01:00:52   Through my own infrastructure. I resize the images to correct sizes that are actually needed by the app. [TS]

01:00:58   And I serve them through C.N.N. [TS]

01:01:00   So that's why when you search over cats if you do a search for like add podcast type in a keyword. [TS]

01:01:05   Those from Nel's will load incredibly quickly. Way way facet of I was pulling in like the full size. [TS]

01:01:12   Uncle mostly uncompressed persons from all the different feeds. I'm doing all that just to make things better. [TS]

01:01:18   You know that again this is another. [TS]

01:01:19   Another advantage I have by having some kind of infrastructure in place I can do that. [TS]

01:01:24   So right now like I'm in the process of moving stuff around like that is that used to be on my own servers now I'm [TS]

01:01:29   trying at Image X. [TS]

01:01:30   but It's costing me a fortune so I move it to something else I'm probably back on my own server soon. [TS]

01:01:35   So my costs are all. Are all in flux. [TS]

01:01:38   But generally speaking the go transition save me a lot of money and my next attempt for the image. [TS]

01:01:45   Resizing is actually going to be based in go. [TS]

01:01:47   And using this library called vips which I don't know anything about but apparently it. [TS]

01:01:51   Like destroys everything else in image resizing performance so if anybody knows anything about the VIP library for [TS]

01:01:58   resetting images let me know you're going to try to install image magic. Image magic is just. [TS]

01:02:05   It is fine I've used it a lot in the past. [TS]

01:02:08   I built most of tumbler stuff against image magic for the second revision when I added the. [TS]

01:02:12   When we added the pay and give support. It's OK image magic is OK modern G.D. Is OK. There are some bindings in P.H.P. [TS]

01:02:21   Some bindings in go you know it's. It's OK but overall I'm eventually just not very fast. [TS]

01:02:27   That's the biggest problem and vips promises to be really really fast I could have seen a few a few benchmarks and. [TS]

01:02:32   It seems amazing. [TS]

01:02:34   So I don't know what the tradeoffs are Maybe it's terrible quality I don't know yet I'm looking into it [TS]

01:02:38   and it's because it's not image magic or G.D. Both of those things. [TS]

01:02:41   I like forgetting how well they work when you use them. Just getting them installed. Says Oh. [TS]

01:02:48   Just like such a nightmare [TS]

01:02:50   and it never gotten better over the decades of me having to install those two things like well. [TS]

01:02:55   They'll work it out and it'll be our so painful. So painful. [TS]

01:02:59   Yeah and I don't know if is still the case [TS]

01:03:01   but we at at Tumblr We have a lot of issues with like image magic would increment the version. In some minor way. [TS]

01:03:09   And then all of a sudden. It would be ten times slower. [TS]

01:03:11   In certain cases because they are really playing with multithreading and things [TS]

01:03:14   and something wouldn't work right there would lock things weirdly. [TS]

01:03:18   It was it was unstable for a while there and it's probably better now. But anyway. This is pretty boring. [TS]

01:03:23   Our final sponsor. Harry's go to Harry's dot com and he's perma code A.T.P. [TS]

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01:03:33   Overpaying for Dr razor blades is a bad habit you should leave behind. [TS]

01:03:37   Harry's offers high quality razors and blades for a fraction of the price of the big Razor brand of the drug stores. [TS]

01:03:43   Harry's are started by two guys who wanted a better product that pay an arm and a leg for shaving. [TS]

01:03:47   They make their own blades from their own factory This is actually an old blade factor they bought in Germany. [TS]

01:03:52   I love German stuff Germans are so good at making stuff. They. [TS]

01:03:55   So Harry's went and bought an old blade factory in Germany. They liked it so much they just had to buy it. [TS]

01:04:00   These are high quality high performing your. When made blades crafted by shaving experts. [TS]

01:04:04   Giving you a better shave that respects your face. And your wallet. [TS]

01:04:08   Harry's offers factory direct pricing at a fraction of the big brand prices so. [TS]

01:04:12   Harry's blades run by my math roughly half the price of the big brands. [TS]

01:04:17   And plus you don't have to actually go to the drugstore to buy them you can just or them online. [TS]

01:04:20   They ship them directly to your door for free you don't have to deal with like go of the drugstores getting that is out [TS]

01:04:26   of the shoplifting case and all that stuff just so much easier just order online. To have a starter set. [TS]

01:04:31   Stars That's an amazing deal for fifteen bucks. You get a razor. [TS]

01:04:35   Most wrenching shave cream or gel your pick and three razor blades. [TS]

01:04:39   When you more blades they run about two dollars each or lesson in how many you buy. [TS]

01:04:43   So eight pack is fifteen bucks a sixteen pack is twenty five bucks. [TS]

01:04:47   They sent me a sample a while back I tried it I went to the whole thing so I would say they are very comparable to the [TS]

01:04:53   Gillette Fusion blades. Without the pro I stripped of the the program. [TS]

01:04:56   The pro glide strips are little bit smoother for that but overall the. The Harry's blades. [TS]

01:05:02   I would say gave exactly the same quality shave as the Gillette Fusion non provide blades. [TS]

01:05:06   And the best president find on Amazon for those fusion blades right now is a twelve pack for about forty one dollars [TS]

01:05:13   twelve carries a blade are twenty dollars. [TS]

01:05:15   So it's less than half the price for what I would say is exactly the same shape quality. [TS]

01:05:21   So they have also amazing packaging. [TS]

01:05:24   Very classy designs and what I like about Harry's to they have and this nice heavy razor blade. I mean razor. Handle. [TS]

01:05:31   So that the it says that like classy like metal thing it's kind of like like Mad Men errantly [TS]

01:05:36   or like at least what we what we like to remember size Mad Men air as being really nice like this nice metal it shiny [TS]

01:05:42   or chrome blades or I mean handles these nice quality blades are great bargain. You can't go wrong. [TS]

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01:05:57   H A R R A Y S dot com. Use promo code A.T.P. To say five. Dollars off your first purchase. [TS]

01:06:04   Definitely check this out if you shave. It is really is a fantastic deal. Harry's dot com Use perma code A.T.P. [TS]

01:06:11   Thanks a lot. You want talk about family sharing John. There was a David Sparks. [TS]

01:06:17   Things that we've had no notes in forever. Yeah. [TS]

01:06:20   You know a lot of complaints about family sharing my expectations I guess where does away the lower what I was looking [TS]

01:06:27   for for family sharing is an officially sanctioned acknowledgement from apple of the structure of a family unit which [TS]

01:06:35   does more or less gave. [TS]

01:06:37   I talked about the cabinets and my Yes Emma the article where it's like well what if you had already sort of kind of. [TS]

01:06:43   Given your kids Apple id's even though they weren't supposed to have them because they're too young I wish I did they [TS]

01:06:50   introduce this way for you to add like child. Apple ideas and it's well. [TS]

01:06:55   Like a dirty have obligates cannot convert the child that blood is an apple said all. [TS]

01:07:00   So you can actually convert an apple you can merge Apple ID you can convert them [TS]

01:07:04   and so I have to give my kids fake ages and wait until whatever they like that's annoying [TS]

01:07:08   but at least I can have you know. An organizer for the family. [TS]

01:07:13   And another dealt in the family and two children in the family. And so. Just having Apple. [TS]

01:07:19   Having me be able to him put that information in some place where Apple knows it gives me hope. Future applications. [TS]

01:07:26   Future services. Other future things that Apple does maybe even third party things they expose that. [TS]

01:07:33   Could recognize the structure of my family [TS]

01:07:36   and use that to do non stupid things like working the way that we would want the applications to work for a family I [TS]

01:07:43   have demo hopes that Apple's photo. Stuff was going to do this but whatever. [TS]

01:07:48   And the second thing I wanted out of it was. [TS]

01:07:51   I wanted my kids to be able to buy things on the App Store with their own Apple I.D.'s with me having some control over [TS]

01:07:58   what they buy [TS]

01:07:59   and so they could have their own you know if the I think people get them ideas gift cards for their stocking [TS]

01:08:03   or something they can go into their own Apple idea to be their own money you can spend it on the games that they want [TS]

01:08:07   to spend it on and I can still see what they're doing. [TS]

01:08:11   And this feature has worked spottily which you would expect for most of the future but sometimes it works like. [TS]

01:08:19   It's better than this speech would not exist [TS]

01:08:21   and all the complaints about this is like well what if they download an application that you bought on your Apple ID [TS]

01:08:26   but the. But the in that purchase doesn't transfer over there so they have a read of you not purchase a lot of the. [TS]

01:08:32   The the annoyance of the family sharing. [TS]

01:08:35   Cause many people including me occasionally to go back to what we were all doing before which is just designating a [TS]

01:08:40   member of the family. As the denigrated. You know App Store Apple ID person. And then everybody assigned in. [TS]

01:08:46   But that Apple ID to the i Tunes store and I saw that afford to Apple's credit. [TS]

01:08:50   Despite the fact that they're so terrible at recognizing how families work. [TS]

01:08:54   They have made it relatively easy to have different Apple ideas for all the different things you can be signed into [TS]

01:08:59   Want to Blighty and i Cloud. Different Apple ID in the App Store. [TS]

01:09:03   And I think even to a different Apple idea and Game Center and maybe a different Apple idea my message I don't know [TS]

01:09:08   but there's a whole bunch of different ways to be going and Apple ideas it was all one thing. Nothing would work. [TS]

01:09:12   Because that would just totally have wouldn't allow people to him to work around with a workaround ever [TS]

01:09:18   but I know does is all that's the Apple i do we buy everything on the everybody in the family gets to use it which is [TS]

01:09:22   nice. From the bad old world of like you had to get a a license for each seat and. [TS]

01:09:27   If you had two computers you can only use software on one or whatever. So now you know. And yesteryear. [TS]

01:09:32   You would spend two hundred dollars on a program. [TS]

01:09:35   And you're just not knowledge of hundred dollars or something else Mondays [TS]

01:09:37   and now you spend ninety nine cents in your whole family can use it so maybe are all spoiled by that [TS]

01:09:40   but whatever the policy is. We all have a work around which just use the same apple idea for everything. [TS]

01:09:47   And the current quote unquote correct way to do with family sharing. [TS]

01:09:50   Even if it doesn't work and even it has limitations and even if like ideas matches an integrated with it in everything. [TS]

01:09:56   It is a start [TS]

01:09:57   and I waited so long for them to have any kind of stardom like finally they realize we have families so maybe in [TS]

01:10:02   another decade. Everyone in the family be able to take pictures and put them into one big family photos pool. [TS]

01:10:07   And not have to have one computer designated as the i Photo computer one Apple ID designated as the one family employee [TS]

01:10:14   but baby steps. It mean for never it's worth. I've now set up. [TS]

01:10:18   Apple family sharing on to families on me my wife and my son and then also on the tips parents. [TS]

01:10:25   So they together can each be their own people and have their own i Pads and. You know share purchases and. [TS]

01:10:31   And for both of those cases we didn't do it the way everyone else did it before where we we didn't have like one [TS]

01:10:39   account that. [TS]

01:10:39   We just bought things from [TS]

01:10:41   and then we'd have our own accounts like no we were always separate before because if I just don't buy a lot of the [TS]

01:10:47   same things it was never really a big problem [TS]

01:10:49   and to mom just got an i Pad this Christmas so it was after family sharing just. So we could start. [TS]

01:10:53   Kind of clean on on the and. And so for us like using it the way it's intended. [TS]

01:11:01   You know the clean way that Apple thinks everyone knows even though almost no one does except us but using it that way. [TS]

01:11:06   It has worked incredibly well I don't. I don't think we've had a single issue with it it has really been flawless. [TS]

01:11:12   I think the. The. Challenges people are having are migrating between the old way of having one shared account. [TS]

01:11:19   If you were doing that which you write a lot of people do. Migrating from that into this new system. But if you. [TS]

01:11:26   If you kind of come to the system on its own terms and do it the way Apple thinks you should be doing things today. [TS]

01:11:31   Then it works very well then you have separate polls of photos that strew yet the photos are not really a solved thing [TS]

01:11:39   yet. [TS]

01:11:40   And you know an Adams not old enough to be buying it on things on the App Store but soon he will be [TS]

01:11:44   and for the new No one No [TS]

01:11:46   but that actually works so we have a set up you know he has a little i Phone It's an old i Phone of mine and and. [TS]

01:11:52   And he has like these games on [TS]

01:11:53   and we set him up his own a kid's own child account for the through the new child accounts of some. [TS]

01:11:57   And so has Israel agent like it or you don't have to like you know. [TS]

01:12:01   Percentage thirteen or whatever has an actual real age in it and his purchases are charged to my account. But. [TS]

01:12:09   And then me or to have to authorize those purchases before they are made and it. It pops up. [TS]

01:12:13   It works great and on tips mom. We had hers doing what you were saying with the with the cards where as where like. [TS]

01:12:20   We gave her the i Pad and we gave her and i Tunes card to start up with. [TS]

01:12:24   And her and to status have been for years where he had all this existing stuff [TS]

01:12:27   and his payment of reasons already his account. And we made them a family account and we added the prepaid card. [TS]

01:12:33   Only to hers. And it separates it out. So whichever member of the family as a prepaid card. It gives them that credit. [TS]

01:12:42   Not like the not the like the first person of the owner whatever the fate of the family. [TS]

01:12:46   And so everyone else will purchase a don't draw from like one person in the family's credit account. [TS]

01:12:53   So it actually does the right thing there it works very well. [TS]

01:12:56   Now that I read it I said I work spottily is because I've had other people my family set up their family things [TS]

01:13:01   and then just never be able to get the notification you know the thing that has the. [TS]

01:13:05   Do you want to prove this thing and. As with so many other icloud problems once you confirm the set up as correct. [TS]

01:13:10   Yep you've got a family yep it's structured correctly Yep people are signing with their Apple ideas for all the various [TS]

01:13:15   things. All right I make a purchase or try to make a purchase. And now you can say no if occasion on your thing. [TS]

01:13:20   Nope don't see it. Yet into nothing you can do. [TS]

01:13:23   And then you had to then say OK well I guess we all signed out of our bodies will wipe our devices we do this we just [TS]

01:13:28   do the silly dance and just if it doesn't work you're like Wow And so that still happens. [TS]

01:13:34   And it's it annoys me that that happens every time it does happen you just feel like powerless [TS]

01:13:40   and it's like well see they don't work or there's got to be a way for me to debug it and debunking it doesn't mean. [TS]

01:13:47   Doing the only things that have buttons. [TS]

01:13:48   Sign out sound I can delete all data restarted and just as very frustrating you know. [TS]

01:13:53   I've had good luck with that here but I've seen it not work. [TS]

01:13:57   I think the first time I tried to do work for me either but then I did start work [TS]

01:14:00   and what change were going to time it didn't work and it didn't. I don't know. It's. [TS]

01:14:06   I still find it fresher but I like really the thing I'm most excited about is the fact they have them at a date. [TS]

01:14:11   Because I hope that once they have the metadata. [TS]

01:14:13   That it can be useful for something that it will encourage them to because if you think about it like anyone designing [TS]

01:14:19   some kind of application or service inside Apple. [TS]

01:14:22   If it's like you know we can do the think of families like I [TS]

01:14:25   but I don't want to set up a thing where people have to sign up their family I just want to make him out no one wants [TS]

01:14:29   to do the infrastructure right. [TS]

01:14:30   But someone eventually are falling to get done as a separate thing family sharing a separate thing so now that [TS]

01:14:35   infrastructure is there anybody making an application at least with an apple for now. [TS]

01:14:40   Doesn't have to be like oh we can do this cool thing with to all [TS]

01:14:43   but I don't want to have a thing where he will have to enter their families [TS]

01:14:45   and that's not part of my application really what I was like No way. We've already got that. [TS]

01:14:49   It's already you know that information is there and presumably there's some way for us to get it [TS]

01:14:53   and then we can leverage that. [TS]

01:14:55   In kind of the same way like I hope and leverage it more like you know a little of the IP things are [TS]

01:14:59   when you're on phone and under not just our block calls from the ips and Mail has be appeasing stuff like that. [TS]

01:15:04   Now that it knows who it was family members are. You can say things like allow calls from my family. You know. [TS]

01:15:09   Or automatically put things for my family in a separate been an apple now instead of just the V.I.P. Thing like. [TS]

01:15:15   You know and this is just immediate family they can go to extended family and you can like. [TS]

01:15:19   They can slowly start to model the real world so we can do things within the same way that Syrians that you know call [TS]

01:15:25   my wife like the relationship. [TS]

01:15:28   Trying to map the relationship between you and other people [TS]

01:15:31   and having sort of these smart assistants in there that are that [TS]

01:15:34   or are aware of these relationships in more than just like. [TS]

01:15:37   I don't know how do you do the spouse arrangements [TS]

01:15:39   and in think is there a field in contacts where you say with their relation is or is just the note field or. [TS]

01:15:45   There's a field in context relationship I believe. [TS]

01:15:47   But is it like free form like you can read any text there you want or is there some like is it's complicated an option. [TS]

01:15:53   Something like you know. [TS]

01:15:55   To give some kind of method A to that is not just arbitrary the key value pairs but that has meaning [TS]

01:16:00   and it is the meaning is understood by the program so they can. So that you know. Even just even if just like quickly. [TS]

01:16:06   Doing something like pulling up a pick [TS]

01:16:09   or where everything is like your most recent contact your most recent whatever Is this some kind of picture where it [TS]

01:16:14   makes sense for you to have the spouses being the default. [TS]

01:16:18   Thing or have immediate family as being the default [TS]

01:16:20   or trying to make reservations that I guess is that you want your whole family I don't know that there's lots of things [TS]

01:16:26   that you can do and I don't get into sort of a creepy like Oh Google they know too much about me [TS]

01:16:30   or whatever it is like this is information that I enter [TS]

01:16:32   and I want like my photo management application to know about my family who the members are how I want think shared [TS]

01:16:38   and stuff like that so this is just the very first step to the possibility of doing it. [TS]

01:16:44   Real time follow up I am not seeing a relationship field after all I could swear it was there but I'm not seeing it. [TS]

01:16:50   You know like the information's got to be in a bit like in the family sharing you don't set relationships like that you [TS]

01:16:55   just say like this is a family there's an organizer and as adults [TS]

01:16:57   and as children which is fine like I don't you don't need to be. [TS]

01:17:00   Prescriptive about like the structure of family or whatever it is like I just want to connect the lines and say. [TS]

01:17:05   Here it here is the structure and here is the hierarchy. Adults children. You know whatever. Just that information. [TS]

01:17:14   I can imagine being so useful [TS]

01:17:15   but nobody who would want to write an application to take advantage of information also want to sign up for gathering [TS]

01:17:21   storing and management information so it's an infrastructure thing that Apple needs to be doing now is finally doing. [TS]

01:17:27   But apparently not particularly well. Thanks a lot for three sponsors this week. Cards Against Humanity. [TS]

01:17:33   Fracture and Harry's. And we will see you next week. Now the show is over. [TS]

01:17:41   They didn't even mean to be good because it was accidental. It was accidental. [TS]

01:17:49   John Casey was killed because it was that the death toll was accidental. And you today. [TS]

01:18:05   And if he was no says that that's key lists and a C. [TS]

01:18:17   and and Team article study says they're risky is if we have a lot of important stuff to talk about [TS]

01:18:41   and it looks like we need to get through some B.S. First. The usual if we're look for a very very good point. [TS]

01:18:50   So look to you to weed through this B.S. As quickly as possible. [TS]

01:18:54   Can we talk about your P S four set up [TS]

01:18:56   and destiny you I was not hit by order to that monitor it's like a play Destiny on it instead of on my television [TS]

01:19:04   and I got delayed by two snowstorms I was kind of frustrating for all involved then Giulia derives I set it up. [TS]

01:19:10   I've been playing it now. I had to do. [TS]

01:19:13   My son hadn't learned during an amateur yet so I tried to give him sort of the approximated version of trigonometry can. [TS]

01:19:18   To convince him that a twenty three inch monitor the distance he setting from it is actually twice as big in his field [TS]

01:19:24   of vision as the fifty five inch television of the distance even promise. [TS]

01:19:29   I was just doing that as a ratio of distance to with of the screen rather than going through like the angles in the [TS]

01:19:34   field of your whatever I think you mostly bought it. And you know how old a see how busy. Ten. I mean if you don't eat. [TS]

01:19:43   I try to gloss over and tell you all you need to know is the ratio like how far you know anyway. [TS]

01:19:48   He found a fairly convincing hooking it up and play it like that. It's nice. [TS]

01:19:53   The one thing I realize which kind of makes me sad is that the block level player nowhere near as good as they are my [TS]

01:19:58   T.V. A man knew this like I know I'm getting a super cheap L.C.D. Screen. [TS]

01:20:04   But it's just it's shocking to me how nonblack everything you have on the screen. Coming off of my T.V. [TS]

01:20:10   but Looking at her but anyway. [TS]

01:20:13   I have you know it does does fill more of my field of vision makes it easier to get head shots. [TS]

01:20:18   Been trying out a little bit of hand Canon stuff because everyone tells me it's good. Not a total convert. [TS]

01:20:24   I've been using a lot of it anyway. [TS]

01:20:26   The other thing on talk about with destiny is that you I like the toaster there are some you I have problems [TS]

01:20:31   and most of you wind up things actually you can tell they play tested a lot because the things that people do [TS]

01:20:37   frequently and destiny. [TS]

01:20:38   Usually have nice ways to do them so it shows that musta been a real long play testing period where they make you mean [TS]

01:20:43   you have a lot of crap to manage [TS]

01:20:45   and if you ever played a game that makes a management difficulty just going through screens and menus and back [TS]

01:20:49   and forward and super difficult. [TS]

01:20:51   This system seems weird at first when you use it for a while you realize it's very efficient. [TS]

01:20:56   Lots of things are done on mouse over. [TS]

01:20:58   Lots of things he did frequently I comparing the Equip to a weapon to another one can be done easily with a knife. [TS]

01:21:03   You know you eyes actually a great lesson in how to make a game you why the deficient the things that people do [TS]

01:21:07   when they're playing the game. But there's one area where I think they fell down. [TS]

01:21:12   And that led me to my other said destiny thing. [TS]

01:21:15   I was in this animal vendor trying to look at different things that I was thinking of buying [TS]

01:21:19   and I had pretty much decided which thing I was going to buy a particular helmet [TS]

01:21:23   but just want to check one more time back at the other one. [TS]

01:21:25   And I went over to the other one did to what I thought was the button for details which is trying though. [TS]

01:21:29   This I let me just like it was one more time to be sure that I'm buying the right ones that with the right parts [TS]

01:21:33   or whatever and X. and I had X. Instead of triangle. And that immediately purchase the item spending. [TS]

01:21:41   Things in game which I don't want to get into to take a really long time to get I spent a long time building up this [TS]

01:21:46   currency. [TS]

01:21:47   And there is no one do like I'm still on as far as I know no one to call tweeted me to correct me there is no one dude [TS]

01:21:53   there is no going back to like. But. But I'm you know. [TS]

01:21:56   I haven't used it I haven't equipped I just bought it to me that I just want to meet the say under an purchase. Refund. [TS]

01:22:02   Go back it's like the App Store Ikes are also held their final. [TS]

01:22:06   And I was so disappointed I bought the wrong helmet and so some purchases make you hold down the button. [TS]

01:22:11   As does this mantling in fact the. If you dismantle something super valuable like an exotic. [TS]

01:22:16   It will make you hold down even longer. That that's good you oughta make it so you don't accidently do something. [TS]

01:22:22   One little top of the exploit and boom. Like three weeks of work to build up what it took to buy this thing. Gone. [TS]

01:22:28   I found it very sad. And I have an ugly how with the wrong perks. [TS]

01:22:33   I have no idea what any of that means but I am sorry for your loss. [TS]

01:22:36   Well you know just general general design things like if a an action has large consequences. [TS]

01:22:43   Make some kind of an do for it or even just like sell backer I understand those like. [TS]

01:22:48   I actually I understand that it's really hard to do that. [TS]

01:22:51   I don't think this is trivia trail changes is a massively multiplayer game where there actually are stocks for the [TS]

01:22:57   vendors and other people buy things like It's not as simple as like. [TS]

01:23:00   It is really complicated under they have to kind of build it in from the beginning [TS]

01:23:04   but you can use it for exploits you know you can imagine all sorts of ways that being able to buy something I merely [TS]

01:23:08   refund it can be used to break the game. And can screw with like keeping track of what inventory is there and just. [TS]

01:23:15   It's super hard to do because the almost no hope that it will ever be done I guess the best thing we can do is THAT [TS]

01:23:20   HAVE BEEN do is just make it along press the buy things with them people are annoyed just like every time I buy [TS]

01:23:25   something to hold on the button. So I don't know I think they just need to do something. [TS]

01:23:29   And that's the extent of your destiny was for this week. [TS]

01:23:32   Yeah about the fact that I never get any time to plan my son is way ahead of me has as more time to play. [TS]

01:23:38   So I wanted to raids. I need to send in shards please understand in shards. And I like twenty of them. [TS]

01:23:44   I mean you only like rescue a conversation with talking with headphone amps the more I mean we've got it we gotta move [TS]

01:23:48   on to printouts now. What's wrong with print outs. Why you printing things on paper to reinforce plus to read. [TS]

01:23:55   Years sitting in front of a computer with disagreeing a few reasons. A. I have a printer. And a lot of paper. [TS]

01:24:04   What else most most to do with it. You've got paper burning a hole in your virtual pocket. Shutdown need to spend it. [TS]

01:24:13   Yeah that's true I mean I have this laser printer that I bought [TS]

01:24:16   when paper still mattered slightly more than the other now. [TS]

01:24:18   And it can print like thousands of pages before running out toner. And so what I'm going to do with it. [TS]

01:24:24   That's part of it. Also that. My microphone is angled I can't actually talk. Ideally optimally directly into the mike. [TS]

01:24:35   While looking at my computer screen. Without having it. Not be perfectly. You know may not be as well. [TS]

01:24:41   Isolated against echoes in some way that in my set up there I have I have here one should move your mike. [TS]

01:24:46   I mean I could do that but I just like it works better this way for me right now and then. Mostly it's just because. [TS]

01:24:54   My computer screen is full of windows. Despite what you had to what you think I work. [TS]

01:24:59   I know you think I have one window and then I close and then open up another [TS]

01:25:02   when I close up ever I reach redid the guy who was like all markets [TS]

01:25:05   and have it on a screen because every too many windows seem to feel overwhelmed. [TS]

01:25:08   So I'm going to move on from that I didn't read someone else that I just read to it it's just it's easier for me to [TS]

01:25:15   manage it for me to see it for me to read from it. Every keep track of which. Which ones I have to do and which ones I. [TS]

01:25:22   Which ones have been done. And then at the end. To be to glance at all three and be able to read them back as the. [TS]

01:25:27   Thanks to the sponsors will see next week like. [TS]

01:25:29   It's just easier for me to do that on paper right now I thought about maybe maybe doing it on an i Pad does that has a [TS]

01:25:35   lot of the same benefits or I could hold it right in front of my face behind the mike here and stuff like that [TS]

01:25:39   but just haven't gotten around to trying to I mean it's just it's no big deal do it on paper it's really it's really [TS]

01:25:44   not a big deal. And the main reason I actually want to talk about this is because this. [TS]

01:25:50   Now because I you know I think it's kind of silly [TS]

01:25:52   but on the other hand it reveals something that I'm constantly complaining about which is. [TS]

01:25:57   People are you know are have the ability to deal with things to deal with real things in their hands in ways that they [TS]

01:26:07   can't do on a computer screen and. [TS]

01:26:09   If you want to take advantage of those skills like the fact that you can manage three pieces of paper you can look at [TS]

01:26:14   them you know where they are and everything. [TS]

01:26:16   Now that you have to approximate the real world but you have to leverage those same abilities to get shouldn't. [TS]

01:26:22   It shouldn't feel so much more comfortable for us not to do tons of people have this shouldn't feel so much more [TS]

01:26:26   comfortable to deal with a physical thing than Doesn't a computer tell is going to be a little bit more comfortable [TS]

01:26:30   and on the other hand is always going to things you can do on a computer screen that you can't do in the real world [TS]

01:26:33   but anytime I see some. Saying well I could do that on the computer screen. [TS]

01:26:41   But if you better to do in real life at something that like is he does not seem. [TS]

01:26:46   You know that seems like a reasonable thing for a computer to do like say show a screenful attacks like it's not you [TS]

01:26:50   know obviously like needing door something obvious and easy and the physical world harder to do on a computer right. [TS]

01:26:57   That's like there's like a failure of the interface [TS]

01:26:59   and whatever it is it's a failure of like is the interface too complicated is the is the the mouse. [TS]

01:27:05   Not as good as grabbing a piece of paper for you is to keep track of things you like ever see people who take notes in [TS]

01:27:13   meetings with a notebook even the like an actual paper and pen even though they have a laptop and an i Pad [TS]

01:27:18   and everything like that is that just old habits because people are you know. Grew up doing a certain way like. [TS]

01:27:23   It's difficult to suss out what exactly what the problem is [TS]

01:27:25   but I think there is still an element of computers feeling sort of less tangible chance to because everything is just [TS]

01:27:32   eventual lights on a screen but like less tangible. [TS]

01:27:35   In the figurative sense instead of the literal sense that they can't get a handle on something unless they haven't [TS]

01:27:40   literally in their hand and it feels better. So anyway. That's. [TS]

01:27:44   I think no one is immune to that even people who use computers all day to do complicated things that occasionally is [TS]

01:27:50   just more convenient even if it's a simple like out of band like I know these are separate like there is the show [TS]

01:27:54   and that is sponsoring the sponsors are separate normal done the right thing to get mixed in with my other windows [TS]

01:27:58   and on never lose them and always have them available where and I can always tell. [TS]

01:28:04   In the quarter my I like how many more sponsor do I have for the show. [TS]

01:28:08   Like how many do I have to do whereas if they were windows I think I think I make it last little more easily. [TS]

01:28:12   If you have blue index cards you could throw them behind you through a window that doesn't have any glass [TS]

01:28:17   and in a comic a glass crashing sound. Nobody. You guys are too young to stay up that late aren't sign. All right. [TS]

01:28:27   We have more B.S. [TS]

01:28:29   To go through although I have a feeling this might be worth it [TS]

01:28:31   and then I'd really like to talk about cars for a few minutes. [TS]

01:28:35   So tell us John a little more about this toaster that you were that you were given. So things to know about toasters. [TS]

01:28:43   Like you know how how I'm sort of raising them because again I haven't had a million toasters [TS]

01:28:48   but I sort of know the rough outlines of the features that they may or may not have. [TS]

01:28:53   And the way I like I would look at toasters in the stores and buy them but I look at them. [TS]

01:28:57   A few things that I think most posters. Get wrong especially the cheap ones. [TS]

01:29:01   The things that make the toaster hot the heating elements. If they don't have anything covering them. [TS]

01:29:07   That's just asking for trouble. [TS]

01:29:08   Because no matter how careful you are with your toaster you always end up getting something in there like drips a [TS]

01:29:12   little piece of melted cheese or whatever. [TS]

01:29:14   You know you're not really supposed to put things in there that are drippy but everybody always does eventually. [TS]

01:29:18   You do not want that dripping directly on the element because it burns and. It's just awful. [TS]

01:29:23   There should be some kind of other guard above the element. [TS]

01:29:27   Sometimes the guard gets almost as hot as the element [TS]

01:29:30   and sometimes the guard is openings in it to let stuff get down to the element anyway. [TS]

01:29:34   And sometimes those guards can block the heat from the element if it doesn't have a reflective thing above like there's [TS]

01:29:39   it's difficult to get the balance right between the elements in the guard [TS]

01:29:41   but I know Alex that I see Bear elements on the bottom. I think it's not great line has that. Yeah. [TS]

01:29:47   Well if I see only one little skinny element in a gigantic Telstar I'm thinking that one elements not going to be able [TS]

01:29:53   to heat things up enough [TS]

01:29:53   or it's not going to have even heating so it's a really big toaster I want it to elements top and bottom. [TS]

01:29:58   The plugs nobody seems to care about this and maybe just my old ancient crappy kitchen but. [TS]

01:30:03   They give you these plugs that are like three prong plugs heavy duty. [TS]

01:30:07   And they stick out like an inch they're just huge plugs [TS]

01:30:10   and if you have the type of kitchen where the plugs are down the same level as the toaster [TS]

01:30:13   and you only have a little tiny spot where you can put a toaster in the plug is right behind it [TS]

01:30:17   and the toaster has tremendous depth because they're all made to put giant deep dish pieces inside them of the hell [TS]

01:30:22   they're made for these days. You if you plug in the toaster. [TS]

01:30:26   You can't push it up against the wall because the plug sticks out from it [TS]

01:30:29   and if you jam read against the plug A You're kicking the court [TS]

01:30:32   and be the hot back of the toaster is pressing against the you gonna melt the little rubber coating on the back of [TS]

01:30:37   thing. I think every Tell should come with a low profile plug is fit flush against the wall. [TS]

01:30:43   So that you can shove the toaster right back up against an edge [TS]

01:30:45   and have a little stops in the back of the keep you from pressing the hot back of the toaster against the cord [TS]

01:30:49   and melting through an electric utility or in your whole family. So that's an area I think all toasters can get better. [TS]

01:30:54   Even my toaster doesn't have that the fancy one I had. [TS]

01:30:56   I bought a low profile plugged engine cord and that it's little thing to make it all work. [TS]

01:31:01   Otherwise I can even have a toaster there. [TS]

01:31:03   Mine does have the standoff that prevent you from putting it right against the wall. And it only has a two prong plug. [TS]

01:31:08   But it is a rail a straight plug not a corner plug. [TS]

01:31:11   Yeah they usually have some kind of stand out for safety reasons but like when the plug. [TS]

01:31:14   Sticks out it's like it fans don't hit the plug it's first. [TS]

01:31:18   And I guess maybe people have the plugs there either higher up I don't know what code dictates [TS]

01:31:22   or all I know that my plugs are way down low [TS]

01:31:24   and I have very little space in the plugs are right behind where I need to put both of these does act. [TS]

01:31:29   How hot does a toaster get on the outside some touches get absurdly Holly outside. [TS]

01:31:33   And people stack all sorts of crap on top of the testers. [TS]

01:31:36   Like I wouldn't put anything out of a toaster because I know it gets hot up there but people do put things up there [TS]

01:31:41   but someone gets so hot like you're basically cooking stuff on the outside toaster here even if you do. [TS]

01:31:46   Like something next to it like within an inch of it and that slowly like bake that over time that's not great. [TS]

01:31:52   This used to be a standard feature that seems to be only on the super high end ones now and I don't understand why. [TS]

01:31:57   So he does forgive metal hook but when you open the door. Little thing that pulls the try out a little bit. [TS]

01:32:02   That's convenient. [TS]

01:32:03   Everyone should do that why do they not do it is to little metal hooks just do it you know some of them use magnets [TS]

01:32:07   and use fancy thing with. [TS]

01:32:09   And the final element is that I see all the time is how robust are the things inside it like the little that the wire. [TS]

01:32:15   Thing that you put toast on. Sometimes that wire is like a thin of a hair. [TS]

01:32:20   Like what was trying to save money and give me I'm nice big thick. [TS]

01:32:24   You know it doesn't need to be so thick that he can't get through it but it shouldn't be easily bent [TS]

01:32:29   or like the type of thing where it will slowly deteriorate and just crack [TS]

01:32:34   or like the heat will work it's what you know it should be it should not feel cheap it should bend easily the tray that [TS]

01:32:40   you put stuff in soon to be like the thinnest possible metal you can get so that it slowly bends and warps [TS]

01:32:45   and dents just. Again it's of the call. You know that has them soon a cheap toaster and a good one. [TS]

01:32:50   Just make things a little bit thicker so that's that's how I'm going to be judging any toaster that comes into my life. [TS]

01:32:58   That's amazing. We talk about cars for a few minutes. We can all right. I drove them for. Wow that's great. [TS]

01:33:09   So what's that about so friend of mine. KEITH. He just traded his in ninety two M three for a brand new.. [TS]

01:33:29   I have to admit it's pretty damn nice. I probably would not order one with the D.C.T. However it's really nice and. [TS]

01:33:41   Oh my goodness Ian plus like. I don't mean this in a genuine sense but my cars ruined. I the M four was loud. [TS]

01:33:53   Which was surprising [TS]

01:33:54   and then of course Keith pointed out is for driving around you know I don't know how much of that is the speakers [TS]

01:33:57   and how much of that is the car. But. Well the M. Cars are all loud. But they they're intentionally loud. [TS]

01:34:04   Although from. I haven't. I'm still not seein em for a real life as a for a few seconds on the highway Leo way but. [TS]

01:34:11   But from what I've seen in videos and from those who turn in the highway it did seem louder than the usual for em cars. [TS]

01:34:17   Yeah it was surprisingly loud. A little bit of turtle wax which I was surprised by because my car has virtually none. [TS]

01:34:25   And this had a little bit which I guess makes sense if you have a bigger turbo or pushing more boost or whatever [TS]

01:34:29   but it certainly surprised me that the that the number was more than zero. [TS]

01:34:35   The interior was bigger than I expected which is probably silly because it's a three series. [TS]

01:34:40   So to speak yeah obviously it's an M. Four. [TS]

01:34:42   But my point being that it's just you know the same size as your average three series with one must search US stores [TS]

01:34:48   but. It was bigger inside that I expected. The the driving experience though was just amazing. [TS]

01:34:56   Got it was so good and it was extremely quick. I feel like it was in Ivan. [TS]

01:35:04   You know crunch numbers or anything [TS]

01:35:05   but I feel like the power to weight ratio of your car Marco in this car were approximately equivalent in so far as you [TS]

01:35:13   stand on the gas and you are hurdled forward at an uncomfortable rate of speed. [TS]

01:35:17   And he was well within break and I think a card like three hundred miles on it or some like that so I was. [TS]

01:35:21   I was coming off. Throttle it. You know five thousand R.P.M. or Something like that but. Oh my goodness. [TS]

01:35:27   The thing was amazing and. Now I kind of want them three. Well not that I didn't before but I really I want to get. [TS]

01:35:34   What color was it. [TS]

01:35:35   I forget the name of the blue but the bright bright bright blue which is not my favorite [TS]

01:35:39   and was not his favorite either but it looked better in person. Not not too dissimilar from the orange one am. [TS]

01:35:45   I forget what actual color that is Mark. Probably knows but. Well that was the valencia orange. [TS]

01:35:51   I prefer the secure or east on the on the newer cars but the ones your ages at think it's still in the X. [TS]

01:35:57   Water least it was on the next one before. It's a. It's very pale in person. The secure oranges is almost red. [TS]

01:36:05   It's a nicely bull darker. So I prefer that one. I mean to be feared. [TS]

01:36:10   There are no good colours on the modern m3 so I can't speak for the M five locked in a long time [TS]

01:36:14   but the M three in the M four is no good colours there's black there's white and there's a bunch of crap. [TS]

01:36:18   I've seen the M four in the dog vomit color is one of them around here that is a lot the yellow one. [TS]

01:36:25   It's so bad as that is I've only had one dog where that's that's called a dog Volman is always going to mind a limb [TS]

01:36:31   or orange. And then months closer to the Securities Co Ltd. It's actually more like the valencia orange bowl. [TS]

01:36:38   And Paul Cronin points out which I believe is right it's Yes Marina blue eyes the blue I'm talking about I mean I was [TS]

01:36:43   OK I lamented numerous times that I actually did not want to get a white three thirty five I preferred to get a limb on [TS]

01:36:51   blue. Three thirty five in this and I was reminded of how much I should have gotten that color. When we were at W.B.C. [TS]

01:36:58   This past year and jury had driven by and I am almost sure that he is the thirty five D. Is in fact Lamont blue. [TS]

01:37:08   Which is really annoying because it's freaking beautiful. But anyway. [TS]

01:37:13   For was amazing I kind of want one I'm going to sell the two of you in order to buy one. [TS]

01:37:18   It's been great working with you. So a few questions. First of all. Which do you think is a worse. [TS]

01:37:24   Color collection overall the colors available for the M four or the colors available for i Pad cases. [TS]

01:37:32   I would actually say the M four probably but it is a tight race. [TS]

01:37:35   The M four definitely because things like i Pad cases you can have in kind of fanciful collars [TS]

01:37:41   and it's not a big deal but the carport That's a lot of color like it's a big thing it's a big expensive thing [TS]

01:37:47   and especially in the case of B.M.W.'s very like the non white and black panther like magic [TS]

01:37:51   and a fairy dust in them in cost and but judging dollars. [TS]

01:37:55   That's that's a way more important thing to worry about the color of than and I pick [TS]

01:37:59   and I begged his like well I get you get to i Pad cases in different colors you could swap them like this is an [TS]

01:38:04   intrinsic part of a super expensive thing that you're you know. [TS]

01:38:07   Investing a lot of your yourself and your image in your desires [TS]

01:38:10   and so it's much worse for cars to have that cause lections. Yeah. Like I love the secure orange color. [TS]

01:38:17   It was available on the M five. I chickened out. Because for the same difference like. I would love this color for. [TS]

01:38:24   You know a couple of days a month. And then the rest of time I'd be like like I feel it too much also used to it. [TS]

01:38:30   It's a big car. They would stick out like right. [TS]

01:38:33   It would just be ridiculous like if I ever got like a small fun car again. [TS]

01:38:37   I would be much more likely to pick a color like that on a small fun occasional driver. [TS]

01:38:41   But not like my daily driver my big four door sedan. [TS]

01:38:44   I'm probably going to want to be black most of the time or something close to Black one of those dark areas [TS]

01:38:49   or whatever because it's like free free for like your everyday car. [TS]

01:38:53   For the Civic the thing you're going to have for years like it's your right leg I am not willing to take a risk on some [TS]

01:38:59   kind of like bright out there color. I don't know I think it's made for people who will take that risk. That's not us. [TS]

01:39:08   I forgot one toaster thing very move on to that. Where the actual toaster I reviewed the chrome trim doesn't slide out. [TS]

01:39:16   Horizontally. Like you know. You can just pull it straight out. You have to tilt it and get it out. [TS]

01:39:23   And of course [TS]

01:39:24   when your tilt that there's a chance that the crumbs into that are on the cruncher I will go skittering off the chrome [TS]

01:39:28   tray. [TS]

01:39:29   Into the putting we're trying to take them out of so that jumps to light that is not a good design market's going to [TS]

01:39:34   ask me. So a couple more quickly ma'am for did you feel any slippages like what was the Corey. [TS]

01:39:41   Putting out more power than what you could reason to put on the road. I didn't. [TS]

01:39:45   When I kept the car pointed in a straight line. [TS]

01:39:49   And so as you and I learned em school you should really only be getting on the gas with any sort of urgency [TS]

01:39:55   and especially I learned at the M. [TS]

01:39:57   School coming up to the homie you should only be getting on the gas of any sort of urgency [TS]

01:40:02   when your wheels your front wheels are pointed straight ahead. And when that happened. [TS]

01:40:07   When I when I did kind of stand on it. When the wheels were pointed straight ahead. I did not notice any slippage. [TS]

01:40:13   But to be fair. I was giving it. You know a whole bunch of throttle for very little blips at a time. [TS]

01:40:20   Typically not in the lowest possible gear because this car's brand new it's not a break [TS]

01:40:27   and it's a treat said that yours. It's not mine. [TS]

01:40:29   I have a feeling that if I were to put myself in a situation where I wanted to move forward with the utmost of urgency [TS]

01:40:37   that yes it would probably slip that being said I did take a sweeping right hand ninety degree turn with some serious [TS]

01:40:45   quickness and. I gave it some gas probably before I should have. [TS]

01:40:50   And I did not notice the traction control cutting in by way of obvious loss of power like it was clear that I was not [TS]

01:40:57   moving forward as quick as I wanted to [TS]

01:41:00   but it wasn't one of those situations where also the car hits a brick wall so to speak. [TS]

01:41:04   However I did see the trash can control light going berzerk on the dashboard so it clearly was not happy with me that I [TS]

01:41:11   was getting on the gas. With urgency. [TS]

01:41:14   Coming out of a ninety degree turn [TS]

01:41:16   and as much as I also did not want my three thirty five to the all wheel drive I would have preferred rear wheel drive [TS]

01:41:22   one of the nice thing about having all will drive car. Is that I can within reason just stand on the gas. [TS]

01:41:30   With the wheels pointed in any direction in just about any conditions. And I will move forward. [TS]

01:41:35   With a particular urgency. And that is not the case and in the M four and certainly not the case in your car. [TS]

01:41:42   As I realized when I went for you know. Harpooning off the course in the borrowed M five at the end. Yeah exactly. [TS]

01:41:48   And this is this is the reason why. I'm very excited about the prospect of an Although Dr out of five. [TS]

01:41:54   You know a lot of the purists are really upset about this. [TS]

01:41:56   I really want that because these cars put out so much low end torque ever since there have been turbocharged. [TS]

01:42:02   They put it so much low end torque that like they can't put the power to the road they are too powerful to be just rule [TS]

01:42:09   drive and to be able to use. Most of that power. Yeah. [TS]

01:42:13   You and I have gone back and forth about this [TS]

01:42:15   and I still find it a little weird the thought of having a wheel drive em car but as I just said [TS]

01:42:21   and as you just said there are absolutely advantages to it without question. [TS]

01:42:25   Or any a Mercedes has them out he has the way this is not a new concept. Like the just just B.M.W. [TS]

01:42:31   That the one holdout that refuses to make all the drivers of their super sport cars will be a portion [TS]

01:42:36   and think Lamborghini Therion Porsche does have the G.T. Three horses the career for. [TS]

01:42:43   Yeah but I think Lamborghini has on an event or four hundred or most Lamborghinis [TS]

01:42:47   or four wheel drive the turbo to your point was always four wheel drive. But the G.T. [TS]

01:42:53   Three was always was with the turbo motor but without four wheel drive. I probably getting it wrong. [TS]

01:42:59   Four wheel drive I don't think it's necessary. [TS]

01:43:01   As evidence by all of the two wheel drive supercars of but if you are for. [TS]

01:43:08   If you're driving skills are not up to that task for a drive is certainly more kind of point and shoot. [TS]

01:43:12   Like it is more forgiving for a. [TS]

01:43:16   It's probably a better trade off to spend some way of making it for one drive just so the average person can drive it [TS]

01:43:21   without constantly breaking the rear and those have a higher chance of doing. [TS]

01:43:25   Another break break all four tires listen. That's hard. I completely agree and as I've said numerous times in the past. [TS]

01:43:32   Perhaps my favorite point shoot car that I've ever driven was my friend Brian's folks like our thirty two. [TS]

01:43:38   And it had a absolutely terrible dual clutch transmission. [TS]

01:43:43   However you stood on the gas at any speed with the wheels pointed in any direction in any gear. [TS]

01:43:51   And you were going to move with a quickness in the direction the cars pointing and that [TS]

01:43:56   when there was you know that was nice. [TS]

01:43:57   You didn't have to think about it you could be completely ham fisted [TS]

01:44:00   and the car will sort itself out which is pretty neat that you want you want to G.D.R. Than. Yeah. Kind of. [TS]

01:44:07   I kind of do. So we have to address the steering question so. To to introduce this topic. [TS]

01:44:13   All of their all the recent three series and threes and fours have electric power steering [TS]

01:44:18   and this is different from the old hydraulic systems which everyone knew [TS]

01:44:21   and the their more efficient the main complaint about electric power steering in general is that it. [TS]

01:44:28   Don't feel the road really anymore [TS]

01:44:31   and it's kind of hassle like artificially simulated to some degree like you're not feeling the direct pressure is that [TS]

01:44:37   the tired of feeling the vibrations the tires are giving back to you and so it doesn't feel natural. [TS]

01:44:44   And you have a lot less feedback about the tires are doing different A.P.S. [TS]

01:44:48   Systems have come out over the last few years that all claim to be improving in this regard they all claim to be better [TS]

01:44:54   and more precise and giving more feedback back to the driver. [TS]

01:44:58   I have never heard anybody though say that the that the E.P.A. [TS]

01:45:02   System in a car they drove was as good as hydraulic steering or better. [TS]

01:45:06   There was one recent review own car [TS]

01:45:09   and driver where they said that they prefer the electrics during over the last drop I just tried to remember [TS]

01:45:13   when you tweeted that and I couldn't remember where the car was. [TS]

01:45:16   A couple months ago and actually in the most current issue of Car [TS]

01:45:19   and Driver They have entire multi-page spread talking about the different kinds of electronic assess for power steering [TS]

01:45:24   I haven't read it yet but I wish it to remember where the car was [TS]

01:45:27   but it's basically what you're saying is right in generalities By think there was a least one. [TS]

01:45:32   In one car comparison they said this one even those one of leisure experience better feeling steering than the other [TS]

01:45:37   one that has hydraulic [TS]

01:45:38   but that is really just getting to the point now where I think very few of the very latest electronic systems. [TS]

01:45:44   Start to approach that of the hydraulic system. Right. And Fred and the one in tips three series G.T. [TS]

01:45:51   That one is really not good I that is that is the biggest thing that would keep me from buying a current three series [TS]

01:45:58   is I really really hate the current three Series EE P.S. It's really bad it does not. It feels incredibly just know. [TS]

01:46:05   And disconnected it. It does not feel natural. It. This isn't this isn't just a sports car driver. Complaint. [TS]

01:46:13   Like every driver. [TS]

01:46:15   No can feel the difference in this and a lot of people don't like it because it doesn't feel like the. [TS]

01:46:19   It doesn't feel like previous cars like it has a very different feel. And the way feedback and it's generally not. [TS]

01:46:26   It doesn't feel the way you expect a steering wheel a feel a news. So all that is to say. So the P.S. [TS]

01:46:32   System in the new M three an M. [TS]

01:46:34   Four is allegedly supposed to be a good one and I have the reviews and have been generally positive but slightly mixed. [TS]

01:46:43   Casey what did you think of it. [TS]

01:46:46   So the most clear [TS]

01:46:48   and direct way for me to answer this question is to tell you I didn't think about it until Keith asked me. [TS]

01:46:54   OK that's good that's similar to when you asked me about how the engine noise. [TS]

01:46:59   Simulation was in the M five I said the same day which is like. [TS]

01:47:02   When I was driving it I didn't even notice or think about it until like the end of the trip but I [TS]

01:47:08   but I read what I remembered oh yeah. It has fake engine noise and I have a nose that the whole time. Right. [TS]

01:47:12   So to be clear. I took the car out on. [TS]

01:47:16   You know surface road so I will excel reading from almost not moving to probably a smidge more than legal speed. [TS]

01:47:24   Very very quickly but I wasn't exactly. You know. Going around a track or anything like that. [TS]

01:47:30   Furthermore you know I was getting off the gas quickly [TS]

01:47:34   and with regard to turns there were always cars in front of me so the best I could do was slow up a bit. [TS]

01:47:38   And then take the turn at probably either the speed limit or a hair above it and. [TS]

01:47:45   I wish I could tell you that I'm just saying that's I don't get myself in trouble with that really was the case I'd in [TS]

01:47:49   in other words I didn't get the chance to like really beat on the car. [TS]

01:47:54   But I didn't notice any issues with the steering I thought it felt heavy. [TS]

01:47:58   Which isn't by necessity a bad thing in specially on a sports car like that. [TS]

01:48:03   I don't recall the specifics of what steering mode it was in I know I was in the most feared the most fierce gear shift [TS]

01:48:11   on the D.C.T. There's a term for the rise here like S three and then. [TS]

01:48:15   And then you know what whether you are in comfort or sport or sport plus on the steering is a different story. [TS]

01:48:20   Generally the prove is sport plus on everything except steering where you put that in comfort. [TS]

01:48:26   Right and what I did end up doing very briefly toward the end of the trip is hitting the AM but in. [TS]

01:48:30   But I didn't notice any discernible difference in the way the steering felt. [TS]

01:48:35   But you know like I can't stress enough that you should take this with two silos focus on health because I was in the [TS]

01:48:41   car for maybe ten minutes or something like that [TS]

01:48:44   and again it was on surface road suburban roads it was not a particularly wonderful test. But I didn't notice it. [TS]

01:48:51   The one thing I did notice however speaking of the good. [TS]

01:48:54   Box was man when you have that thing on a serial whatever the most serious shifting motives. That thing shifts. [TS]

01:49:00   Hard like. Surprisingly hard not to the point that I would say it was like uncomfortable. [TS]

01:49:07   But it was quick and it was rough. There was no slippage whatsoever. Additionally. [TS]

01:49:14   I've programmed myself over the years that when I'm driving a car that has only two pedals. [TS]

01:49:20   When I come off the brake it will roll forward. [TS]

01:49:23   That doesn't happen in these cars right that's why I like the C.T.'s because they behave like sticks. [TS]

01:49:28   But that's so well I'm not saying it's bad. [TS]

01:49:31   And I think I once I got used to it I would absolutely prefer it but it is [TS]

01:49:34   but having driven my car like two hours prior to come to work. [TS]

01:49:38   And then my friend met me at work we just drove around real quick to go from that to for my car which. [TS]

01:49:44   You know is a normal clutch car. To this car which. Because I see only two pedals I think of as an automatic. [TS]

01:49:53   When I took my foot off the brake I'm waiting for to creep in it didn't end it [TS]

01:49:56   and it took me a second realize what crap was going on at first I thought I was neutral. But hey. [TS]

01:50:03   But it soon as I realize oh wait is the D.C.T. Color it's probably not you know. [TS]

01:50:07   Disengaging the clutch reengaging clutch always got that backwards but it's not. You know manipulating the clutch. [TS]

01:50:13   Until I give it a little bit of gas but it was reasonably smooth it. [TS]

01:50:18   Stop and go traffic kind of speeds just like your car is I mean this is nothing that particular different. [TS]

01:50:22   Might be the same box play very well could be it was seven speed yours and seven speed. OK. But yeah. [TS]

01:50:29   I love the car I thought it was excellent as time goes on. [TS]

01:50:35   I still think if I if I were to hypothetically buy an M three tomorrow. I would take the six Mt you know. [TS]

01:50:42   Give me the clutch. Gear. The check box. But that being said if. [TS]

01:50:48   What's the The Simpsons line you know I for one welcome our D.C.T. Future G.C.T. [TS]

01:50:53   Overlords whatever it is I'm sorry John I'm sorry but your that hail ants. [TS]

01:50:57   Yeah totally that was that was part of that quote wasn't it because was like ants coming in to take over the world [TS]

01:51:02   or something anyway. I was a sign behind him. Just gone. OK OK. So the point being if. If my future. [TS]

01:51:10   Is dual clutch transmissions because the traditional clutch transmission goes away. I'll be sad. [TS]

01:51:17   But I think I'll be OK. Overall I think it'll. I think it'll work out. [TS]

01:51:22   And you should get ready for a one one pedal driving. [TS]

01:51:24   I wish I had a chance to try that I was a passenger Winstone was doing that but that. [TS]

01:51:28   That is the future that just as you get used to do. The transmissions. [TS]

01:51:32   That's going to be one pedal driver you talk about like a Tesla that you can basically drive the car with one paddle in [TS]

01:51:37   most conditions of your careful because not only does. You know. Not doesn't creep forward like an automatic. [TS]

01:51:44   But when you take your foot off the gas. It acts like it's breaking. Like as you. [TS]

01:51:48   As you let up on on the accelerator it goes into regenerative braking [TS]

01:51:52   and everything is so it's like so you can literally drive it with one foot. [TS]

01:51:56   Most of the time [TS]

01:51:57   and you only need to actually use the brake breaks that pinch little discs inside the wheels for stopping you know. [TS]

01:52:03   Not not just emergency time for stopping faster than you would normally want to stop rolling. [TS]

01:52:08   But that's been true for as long as the Jeep Wrangler spin around because I sure you put a Jeep Wrangler at sixty [TS]

01:52:13   seventy eighty miles an hour at highway speeds. You think your foot off the gas in that box is going to stop. [TS]

01:52:18   Or is going to roll over and explode I thought about yeah you get a minivan there when resistance both low you're down. [TS]

01:52:23   Now did you see by the way that Elan Musk tweeted like a week [TS]

01:52:27   or two ago that they were increasing the zero to sixty time if I believe the P A T five by doing it over the air update. [TS]

01:52:33   It did just see the videos of people's reactions those passengers got out fantastic because that seriously fats minutes [TS]

01:52:42   was three point two seconds three point one zero it's. [TS]

01:52:44   I think the most shocking thing about is that it feels more like an amusement ride because it is not accompanied by. [TS]

01:52:51   First of all that the torque curve is different than on any kind of gas engine a second is not accompanied by serve any [TS]

01:52:56   clamor. [TS]

01:52:57   No any sort of roaring engineering of the car noises so it's the best analogy I think of as those amusement park rides [TS]

01:53:03   that. [TS]

01:53:04   That have a thing that accelerates the entire roller coaster from a dead stop to high speed [TS]

01:53:08   and not an engine you know it's something else it's going to rule and so. Yeah. [TS]

01:53:13   It's unlikely to be shocking but I would prefer the engine. [TS]

01:53:16   The sound of an engine in a sporty yentas like the Tesla specially with the P.T. Five G. [TS]

01:53:22   Now that all the drugs crazy one. [TS]

01:53:24   I'm really I would love to drive one of those just I've never I've never driven a Tesla I'm I'm curious if. [TS]

01:53:30   If I'm going to drive one that's the one I want to drive of course and. I'm just I would love to try that out sometime. [TS]

01:53:36   It's certainly possible to. [TS]

01:53:38   Because what they like is still the case for test drive [TS]

01:53:41   when you have to give them five grand a get on the waiting list. I don't know. I have heard that story but anyway. [TS]

01:53:46   So I am really curious the drive that just to see how it is how it compares to like really sporty gas car. [TS]

01:53:54   Ultimately though I totally get the appeal of like keeping your sporting needs. Basic And to that end I was. [TS]

01:54:01   I spent a lot of time on the couch this week because I've been really sick. [TS]

01:54:04   And so I started looking into the Porsche Cayman. And so the G.T. Four was announced today. Right or when I'm yes. [TS]

01:54:11   So I've actually been looking at Cayman stuff a couple days ago because they meant to handle on the top tier thing. [TS]

01:54:18   And I don't know I never for my pens or you know like sit in a bunch of our bunch of our car friends. [TS]

01:54:24   Think well of the Porsche Cayman Porsche Porsche what us what you're saying here Orsha. OK. Find out of your bio on. [TS]

01:54:32   So for. I've also never driven a mid engine car. I think if I was going to buy a small fun car again. [TS]

01:54:39   Which I probably shouldn't say I last time it was a pain yeah. But if I was going to buy a small fun car again. [TS]

01:54:45   I think what I would buy. Would be the previous generation of Cam and the. [TS]

01:54:51   And I think even just asked why not let the super crazy G.P.S. [TS]

01:54:54   Whatever I don't own much about their lineups and how the differentiation. [TS]

01:54:58   Goes but what I would want would be a six peed with hydraulic power steering [TS]

01:55:03   and a relatively simple lightweight car with a good amount of power and. I think the. [TS]

01:55:08   The like twenty ten or twenty twelve Cayman S. Is that. [TS]

01:55:13   Like I think if you're going to have a small sporty fun car going like the purest route with just real drive six peed [TS]

01:55:21   mid engine. I think that's a really powerful combination that's why one loves us so much. [TS]

01:55:26   I think I think that would be the way to go not like super technical I like the new M three M. For. [TS]

01:55:31   Not even really of the new modern Caymans that are that have like. [TS]

01:55:35   You know the E.P.A.'s they have more advanced everything more. You know more expensive course but just like everything. [TS]

01:55:41   More a tronic more advanced like. Just the old style. Just six peed a real physical parking brake. [TS]

01:55:49   Think that there's a lot of appeal of that I think would you guys do. I don't know it's a tough call. [TS]

01:55:57   On paper that's probably the right answer. I've always fancied in S two thousand which is. [TS]

01:56:02   You know lower class and what you're talking about but I've always liked them both still very well the regard of the. [TS]

01:56:07   That is a Marco size car. [TS]

01:56:10   Like yours I can buy a nest of that neither can you case if you ever try to set him on a driven one. Like they're not. [TS]

01:56:16   Size for us there it's like being in a car has left a small for you. Very true but I do like them. [TS]

01:56:22   I you know I wasn't prepared for this question I have to think about it you know the. I have a few friends. [TS]

01:56:28   Like the guy who owned the are thirty two he still has and thirty six M. Three. [TS]

01:56:33   Which with not a lot of work can be a phenomenal. Track car. [TS]

01:56:39   Or just that sort of car if you know if you don't you'll turn it into a track queen just with a little bit of work it [TS]

01:56:44   can be reasonably quick and in just handle. [TS]

01:56:50   Unbelievably well you know there's something to be said for the Toyota Peru there. Absurdly slow woefully slow. [TS]

01:56:57   Like almost so slow that I wouldn't ever be able to drive one slow that's not going to say about even his choice of the [TS]

01:57:03   Came in like it's kind of weird for your fun car to be slower than the one whatever the car seat in it that's a good [TS]

01:57:10   point. Yeah. [TS]

01:57:11   I mean this in practice I would probably never actually get out of her under the car because I don't like having [TS]

01:57:16   multiple cars I like having one. Good all around or. [TS]

01:57:19   You know rather than having like family boring car and small fun car I'd much rather have the one all around [TS]

01:57:25   and that's you know it's especially if they make it all the drive. [TS]

01:57:28   Version of the M five than and that's it that's just that's it I'm less so and what I'm basically hedging against is. [TS]

01:57:35   If they ruin everything. So if they bring in the new E.P.A.'s system. [TS]

01:57:39   The next generation of five which they will certainly do you know do I have to have a terribly P.S. [TS]

01:57:44   System to get this fun car that I will drive like. It's so the be a lot less satisfying to me. [TS]

01:57:50   Most likely so I'm always worried that like that all the new stuff is going to ruin everything like what the old stuff [TS]

01:57:56   so I better. Get an old one quickly and you know be able to save it for forever which of course was really work. [TS]

01:58:02   I put the picture of the came in that I thought Margaret was talking about I was a kind of weird to me too [TS]

01:58:07   but like the model. I think we came in as a good idea. Like in that sort of range. You know it's the. [TS]

01:58:15   The simple mid engine sort of pure sports car thing they're just ridiculously expensive [TS]

01:58:20   but what I would get is the generation. [TS]

01:58:23   I don't know if this is like the first generation that took the rear a little spoiler thing [TS]

01:58:27   and pulled it into the headlights. [TS]

01:58:29   As you can see in that picture like where that where that you know that little thing is sticking out of the end of the [TS]

01:58:33   car. [TS]

01:58:34   And it actually goes into the headlights [TS]

01:58:36   and it's also like a little ridge on the headlights themselves the first generation they did that. [TS]

01:58:40   That's the one I would get I think that's the one Marco is talking about. [TS]

01:58:44   Yeah we talk I read this good article on Jalopnik I did put in the show notes titled How much better is the new Porsche [TS]

01:58:50   came in than the old one. [TS]

01:58:51   And they compare the new one which is the model nine eight one versus the old one which is a model nine eight seven. [TS]

01:58:57   And yes the numbers go backwards it's weird. [TS]

01:59:00   So that's what I'm talking about the Nine eight seven is the one that actually like the way they're describing it [TS]

01:59:04   and how it looks and how simple and traditional it is that appeals to me. [TS]

01:59:08   Whereas the new one really doesn't call so you want them on more the lower. The spoiler does not go into that blades. [TS]

01:59:14   Maybe. [TS]

01:59:15   Yeah this is the black one that's the black one of those articles I think I don't I don't like how that one looks quite [TS]

01:59:20   as much. [TS]

01:59:21   I don't know about the other attributes of it I think it at the tester [TS]

01:59:24   but either one you mean the tail lights have the daylight sorry. [TS]

01:59:27   OK that makes a lot more sense yeah I was also confused for a second that was I saying had lived all time. [TS]

01:59:32   Yes I'm looking at the picture of the tell the back of the car. [TS]

01:59:35   I mean I don't think the back of either of them looked very good to be honest I like this is just how I'm choosing to [TS]

01:59:41   identify the generate [TS]

01:59:42   when they redid the styling for the new generation that is the most distinguishing feature of the U.V.'s way to tell [TS]

01:59:47   the new one from the old ones you can tell from the how do you tell from the whole car ride [TS]

01:59:50   but the easiest way to say is. [TS]

01:59:52   Just look at how is despoiling go into them or does it not right [TS]

01:59:57   and the one I like is the older one where the spoiler does not go into the taillights. Yeah. [TS]

02:00:01   I don't I don't like with only about one as much. [TS]

02:00:03   Not that I love the spoiler going to tell it's been like that stick in my just my signifier for the overall car. [TS]

02:00:08   But I don't know that the test result of the liberal they're both good choices [TS]

02:00:11   but I guess that it would be weird to buy. [TS]

02:00:14   Like this isn't small enough and find enough to be an excuse like if you want to get something like. [TS]

02:00:21   That's more like a go cart like. [TS]

02:00:22   You know one of Ariel Adam but because I think actually is faster than your and five [TS]

02:00:27   but very much so because there's not really a car there. I know but I'm semi-classical And you know his seat. [TS]

02:00:32   If you're going to get something slower than your M five. [TS]

02:00:35   It should be significantly lighter significantly smaller significantly different experience. [TS]

02:00:40   Whereas I think became starts to push up into like well it is actually kind of like Jarius inside [TS]

02:00:45   and it is actually not as light as you know. Even something like. [TS]

02:00:50   You know obviously the area I know but I think the like the also foresee is interesting. [TS]

02:00:54   Right but all the reviews say that the it's a lot of fun but that the interior really sucks. It's also a Gleason. Yeah. [TS]

02:01:01   It has has its bad days. [TS]

02:01:04   I would test drive the Caymans and see how much fun you think it is and how much more toss a ball and small [TS]

02:01:10   and nimble it feels like it's also pretty wide cartoon or you know. Yeah I mean again. [TS]

02:01:15   The reality is I'm not really looking to bite of the car right now. Like I'm perfectly have with the set up I have now. [TS]

02:01:22   Well that actually begs one of the questions I want to ask you which is. [TS]

02:01:25   You are two thirds of the way through your lease is that right. Yeah. [TS]

02:01:28   Yeah I mean I got I got to pick out something new this winter this coming winter like it. [TS]

02:01:32   And in almost a year or decide to buy this one out. So sitting here now and obviously a lot can change in here. [TS]

02:01:39   Even in the car industry. What do you think you would do. [TS]

02:01:42   I've I've said in the past and I will continue to say that if I had to replace my car. Today. [TS]

02:01:48   For whatever reason if it's like stolen or something if I had to replace it today. [TS]

02:01:52   I would get basically the exact same thing like I would I would tweak some of the options. [TS]

02:01:55   But I would get basically these acts in car. Like I love this car. [TS]

02:01:59   I don't have any reason to look at anything else like there's every every other car I've ever owned. [TS]

02:02:05   All of them even the want to every other cars ever owned. As I've owned it. [TS]

02:02:10   I've looked at other cars me like you I really. [TS]

02:02:12   I would really like that instead [TS]

02:02:14   or I would like to upgrade to that there was always something about it that really something that every car of on it [TS]

02:02:19   was something about that I wasn't really happy with. With this car that's not the case this is the first time. [TS]

02:02:24   And mean God It better be right. [TS]

02:02:26   This is the first time where where I have no major complaints I even have very few minor complaints. [TS]

02:02:32   Mike My current idea is absent any new information about when all the drivers might become available. [TS]

02:02:40   I would probably just get another one just like it. Except you know. Change a couple the options. [TS]

02:02:44   But that's really like I don't. I don't I'm not motivated at all to to look around at other models and. [TS]

02:02:52   You know change up the situation here it's just an it's a it's a freaking amazing car it's perfect in every way that I [TS]

02:02:58   really needed to be. And even though I will drive like I don't really need the oval drive I'm doing fine without it. [TS]

02:03:06   I should probably just buy this one out. These The M. [TS]

02:03:09   Cars get used and and maintaining an EM car out of warranty is not a great use of money. [TS]

02:03:17   I remember looking at into getting an extended service plan for my car. And then I talk to the B.M.W. [TS]

02:03:23   Dealer about it and they had a really helpful. Whiteboard. Sitting on a chair in the finance. [TS]

02:03:30   Manager's office and it was a applaud if you will I guess a table of. Here's all the regular maintenance services. [TS]

02:03:39   One would need you know. Breaks or why all cloth should such and such and such or and. [TS]

02:03:46   And I remember vividly that for each of these line items and I'm making up numbers now. It would say oh well. [TS]

02:03:53   One hundred fifty dollars and three hundred kloc thousand dollars. [TS]

02:03:57   M four thousand or whatever the numbers may be and it was in sane. [TS]

02:04:03   A new feature they have a new car [TS]

02:04:04   and driver these days is showing you a used car as the you know how much that come down in price [TS]

02:04:09   and like what things to look out for like on this car like the struts always crack and check for this [TS]

02:04:13   and check of those have you know. [TS]

02:04:15   And so the one in the back of the most recent issue was a Ferrari three forty five and. [TS]

02:04:21   They give like out of the maintenance numbers of [TS]

02:04:23   or do you can expect to pay those of the word think like you have B.M.W. Then you have the M. Car. [TS]

02:04:30   And then you have these super car is this is like another. [TS]

02:04:34   Another doubling of the price of everything forget about oil changes everything which is just as ridiculous as you [TS]

02:04:39   might think. Then it's like you know the tires are expensive find these tires last you know. [TS]

02:04:46   Five thousand miles they're seven hundred bucks each whatever the high performance tire [TS]

02:04:49   and a stand by the why you can't get them changed in regular things because regular tire Cheney equipment will pull [TS]

02:04:54   damage the magnesium will. [TS]

02:04:56   So you're not even done justice to her idea and everything cost a million dollars [TS]

02:05:02   and the one that really got me is like they were talking to an owner like how much money should you set aside for this. [TS]

02:05:07   What is it now like ten fifteen year old car. Twenty running on a hole that is right. [TS]

02:05:11   How much money should you set aside for yearly main who said just set aside five grand a year. [TS]

02:05:15   You're like oh that's not so bad I guess. Five grand a year right. [TS]

02:05:18   But then one headline times the bottom is every three years you need to change the timing belt [TS]

02:05:23   and it's seven grand because that the pull the whole engine out of the car. [TS]

02:05:30   To change the timing so yes every three years. [TS]

02:05:33   And by the by someone had brass valves [TS]

02:05:35   and if they had brass valves that caused the manifold the overheating that was like nine hundred bucks the Genoese like [TS]

02:05:40   everything on that nothing on this car is under five hundred dollars before. [TS]

02:05:43   You know all the four months or even provided. Like like. [TS]

02:05:47   And every three years seven grand thing in addition to the five grand you set aside per year for an ancient for Ariz So [TS]

02:05:54   you get a lot of my oh my god yes [TS]

02:05:56   and it's super cars like you know like you think you're not getting a hundred thousand miles out of that clutch. [TS]

02:06:00   Oh and so there [TS]

02:06:00   but we'll do like the front wheels will last fifteen thousand the back wheels will last about five thousand [TS]

02:06:05   and each wheel is seven hundred bucks and. Yeah. So I mean you know and cars are not nearly that bad it's. [TS]

02:06:12   They're much closer to regular cars [TS]

02:06:14   but you know the pull the engine out of the car to a maintenance on it like that's the thing with the mansion car [TS]

02:06:18   that's where you have to look out for the came in as a lot of things like a lot of things that a lot of regular [TS]

02:06:23   maintenance. Does have a lot more labor just because a song. Damn hard to get at the engine. Yeah. [TS]

02:06:29   It's TALK ABOUT MY CAR NOW to her we go. All right. Race by then Earth. No I mean my Ferrari. I don't know prize there. [TS]

02:06:37   So that you know your turbo Ferrari. What is the. [TS]

02:06:40   My car is always the sort of entry level mid engine for our in a star but three forty eight [TS]

02:06:46   and I've sort of followed it through the whole range of things as they go on with three use and changing to fours [TS]

02:06:50   and so on and so forth and as I mentioned to drench son. On Twitter. [TS]

02:06:55   Every time they introduce a new one starting from the three forty eight [TS]

02:06:58   and through the five comes out three sixty the fourth are like the whole the way up the chain. [TS]

02:07:02   There's always something weird about the styling of the car when I first go at it. [TS]

02:07:06   I see it I go to me what they do with whatever it is. And then it always ends of growing on me. [TS]

02:07:11   And so here is the Ferrari for eighty eight which is replacing the four fifty eight. [TS]

02:07:15   It looks a lot like a four fifty eight just like that you know it's less of a departure then the four fifty eight was [TS]

02:07:20   from the four thirty. But it's got some weird stuff and I did you hear. [TS]

02:07:25   Oh so this looks pretty good to me I look at the Wired article on it. Also the shape of the car is great like. [TS]

02:07:30   I have no qualms about the overall shape of the ILO That's why I always like this car is why I like it better than like [TS]

02:07:35   the front engine. [TS]

02:07:37   The current thing is the after twelve in the five nine nine you know I like it better than than the supercars like the [TS]

02:07:43   F.F.T. F. Already law for Ari because there was kind of like alley and. [TS]

02:07:46   This is the car like as it's that balance between you know. I like them an engine shape and I like. [TS]

02:07:51   I like the fact that it's not super duper exotic although I do always kind of admire the super top [TS]

02:07:56   and Ferrari cars which is all I want to see. Law Ferrari and Top Gear. [TS]

02:08:00   But the weird aspect on this one I think is the little the little hip inlet. Treatment. [TS]

02:08:06   And that seems weird to me and again these cars. [TS]

02:08:09   Always look so different in person sometimes for the better sometimes for the worse I think I have to wait until I see [TS]

02:08:14   one of these in person [TS]

02:08:15   but I do really like overall shape I think I like the overall shape even better than the four fifty eight [TS]

02:08:20   but I don't know about those the a little shoulder and let the hip in that what everyone called above the rear wheels. [TS]

02:08:26   I think it works for me. And overall the. Front and in the back and I think are both very good as well. [TS]

02:08:31   I would say overall. This is one of the better looking for as I've seen in the last decade. [TS]

02:08:36   Because I have not liked most of the way to the way most the look I most of them to me have looked either bland. [TS]

02:08:42   Or completely ridiculous. And this one I think trying to fall in the middle of it looks like a normal nice fast car. [TS]

02:08:50   And it has some some strong accents but it doesn't look totally ridiculous to me. I would agree. [TS]

02:08:54   It's going a little bit into Lamborghini territory where it starts look more masculine and feminine. You know. [TS]

02:09:01   And like that's what I've always loved about the Ferrari cars is there was a kind of like smooth and nicely sculpted [TS]

02:09:06   and they don't do the thing where they want to feel. They feel like that look like a Transformer. [TS]

02:09:10   Right that's why you know. Little kids' bedrooms that. Lamborghinis on the wall but they look like crazy. [TS]

02:09:15   Trip they look like you know. A Gillette razor. Handle. Right. [TS]

02:09:20   Crazy fins and slats [TS]

02:09:21   and stuff like that whereas the Ferrari wins are always much more elegant like even if you just look like you know the [TS]

02:09:26   tester us or the three forty eight. Yeah they have the whole side strakes and everything but it's. [TS]

02:09:30   It's a more elegant treat and then. You know like the event a Darwiche total It's like a Transformer. Right. [TS]

02:09:35   And this one has a little element of the sort of techno Futurist transformer kind of even more than I think the law for [TS]

02:09:43   I does LA Ferrari's a little bit smoother than this but by that the overall shape [TS]

02:09:47   and proportions where the wheels are where the overall shape of the car if you just draped all current covered all the [TS]

02:09:51   and let's I really do like that I like how they've refined the front end of it to look now. The turbo engine. [TS]

02:09:58   That's you know it's another one of those end of the air as like when they got rid of the big you know. [TS]

02:10:02   Ball shifter with the metal gate on it right. You know yelling that you know the time comes and goes and you know. [TS]

02:10:09   I understand. [TS]

02:10:10   Like can't deny the turbo but I assume if you look at the things that Ferrari concentrates on and its cars. [TS]

02:10:18   It seems one of the things they're not willing to compromise thus far is that it has a sound like a Ferrari [TS]

02:10:23   and I can imagine quite a lot of the things Ferrari does go toward Yeah but this sounds better. [TS]

02:10:30   I could just part of the whole experience of owning the car. [TS]

02:10:33   The turbo is going to change how the the car sounds but I'm hoping. [TS]

02:10:36   If any manufacturer is going to have a interesting nice steering engine noise from an engine with a turbo. [TS]

02:10:45   Ferrari will figure out a way to do it. But this may be the end of that. [TS]

02:10:49   That sound I love to hear that makes my head turn whenever I'm driving around here I can pick it out for mile away. [TS]

02:10:55   That's the sound of a Ferrari Enzo naturally aspirated V eight just revving up some crazy person [TS]

02:11:01   but are there behind me in front of me or on coming traffic I can always hear it before I see it [TS]

02:11:06   and it's a sound I want when I get mine. Which will never actually happen. By me a separate house like for you. [TS]

02:11:14   Take down the damn jittery and a staff to try to maintain it. [TS]

02:11:19   Yeah yeah like you can also buy a dealer to put next to your house to service it. Yeah. [TS]

02:11:25   Because you can't just take it anybody [TS]

02:11:26   and everything cost of everything cos a billion dollar that's why people don't drive these forgiveness like in your [TS]

02:11:30   eyes if I drive it I'm getting engine closer to the next guy jeweled ten grand maintenance. My For our. [TS]

02:11:35   Yeah it's like like. You can take a grocery store and that. [TS]

02:11:38   That's like you know total cost of ownership of a thousand dollars for that trip. You know. It's crazy. [TS]

02:11:42   It's has consumable like that. [TS]

02:11:45   Everything in it if you're simple yet whole car yeah I mean and you know every car is consumable [TS]

02:11:49   but they take it to another level in the supercar territory or because like the wheels are like well I you know there. [TS]

02:11:56   They're going to be gone shortly and each wheel is super expensive I wonder you get a Ferrari like. [TS]

02:12:01   Will they sell if you would like all season tires. [TS]

02:12:07   Maybe a cargo net for the for the the the hood trunk for that it is there even a cart. Now the front. [TS]

02:12:14   It be a but they have scooped it down to make these big like. [TS]

02:12:17   You know like like a viper almost as big like done for reasons I'm sure there's a fitted set of luggage you can buy [TS]

02:12:24   another ten. Every every supercar as a fit of other luggage that goes into the little cubby so they give you for this. [TS]

02:12:33   This is ultimately why like. [TS]

02:12:34   I don't fantasize about owning a supercar because none of that sounds appealing to me at all like. [TS]

02:12:40   I you know I thought it was even too annoying to have the one I am in the three series so this would be your fun car [TS]

02:12:45   and I guess if you were on to get a fun run about a car. This would this would not feel intimidated by having fun. [TS]

02:12:51   It would be like yeah. [TS]

02:12:52   The M five is my regular kind of boring car and then when I want to have fun a happen this [TS]

02:12:57   and I only do that like I put you know. Five hundred miles on it a year. [TS]

02:13:00   It was yeah it's like the whole reason why I like the M five is because it is still it is a really amped up version of [TS]

02:13:09   a normal family sedan. And so like my thing is. I don't I don't. I don't really do anything unique or fun with my cars. [TS]

02:13:19   I don't go to tracks. I'm not like driving along mountain roads or anything for the most part. [TS]

02:13:24   I'm doing very boring things. I'm driving around the suburbs going grocery shopping. Yeah buddy. [TS]

02:13:29   But even just doing boring things and this would be different than doing boring things in your I'm five. [TS]

02:13:34   The reason I like the M five is because I my. My life is doing extremely boring things in a way to truly Fund Me. [TS]

02:13:42   And so that like the M five is is. I love doing boring things in that car. [TS]

02:13:48   If I had like a super car like the furry I would. I would first of all feel. [TS]

02:13:53   Infinite stress about it as far as not really a supercross the law for Arias is it because I know they want to call it [TS]

02:13:59   a hypercar in that he's a surprise but I think we should not allow the name inflation to take place the entry level. [TS]

02:14:06   If I forgot to call a California Ventrilo Isn't this like two hundred forty grand or something. [TS]

02:14:11   I don't know but as you know it's not. I would say this is. This is not a super car makes a difference. [TS]

02:14:17   I don't know about that John. The McLaren The put it this way the McLaren P one is a super car. The M.P.. [TS]

02:14:22   Twelve whatever C. Thing is not a super The M.P. For twelve C. [TS]

02:14:27   That's not a super car with people on it [TS]

02:14:28   and already not like the top of the line of a zipper as they kept trying to change the name of like all those are hyper [TS]

02:14:34   cars but is every Ferrari super cardinal look at fire I keep it anyway yes it's very expensive [TS]

02:14:40   but like it's the same thing it's like if you've got a convertible like. If you've got a convertible. [TS]

02:14:44   You've got a convertible car and I can I'm volatile I burn easily. [TS]

02:14:48   Like that that would be a different drive me sprint like the experience of driving is even if you drive it in the same [TS]

02:14:52   way the sensations and sounds are driving the exact same distance [TS]

02:14:56   and speed in this car would be so different not to mention the whole idea of like the thing that you like the view out [TS]

02:15:01   of this thing and the view behind this thing and like just. [TS]

02:15:04   It's a different experience driving this car than it is driving something of what feels like a different type of. [TS]

02:15:10   You know like oh so you're looking for is there a view behind you can you see anything out there Rick. Barely. [TS]

02:15:15   But that's part of the experience like it will feel different and thing out of the same way you have the. [TS]

02:15:20   The WANT TO am like that that. [TS]

02:15:22   It's giving you a different experience that's why like I think a super cheap convertible anything would be different [TS]

02:15:26   enough from Graham five that you may consider a fun car and then you can say well yes it's half the speed of my M. [TS]

02:15:31   Five. But it's a convertible. That makes it very different. Yeah that's fair. [TS]

02:15:36   This is like that's why I let you know I like the slightly older Cayman is an interesting option to me because so it's. [TS]

02:15:42   smaller lighter. Mid engine lower. Whereas some like A but I think the problem when I had the one M. [TS]

02:15:48   The problem was I never wanted to drive through twenty eight anymore. Like it what I didn't I couldn't balance it. [TS]

02:15:53   Like I only want to drive the one M. but Because I have. [TS]

02:15:56   You know family obligations [TS]

02:15:57   and space reasons that I was stressed out about ever getting a single little scratch on it because it was irreplaceable [TS]

02:16:03   unique limited edition car. [TS]

02:16:04   Like it stressed me out too much to own it and I it was always kind of a struggle to balance that. [TS]

02:16:09   That's why I think my. My ultimate best choice is to just keep buying really nice four door sedan. [TS]

02:16:15   Plus I never like sitting like basically on the ground. [TS]

02:16:18   You already are on the ground now it's a little lower than that I was talking about Markos height. [TS]

02:16:24   You know the any any of these include including most likely the Caymans. [TS]

02:16:27   You know any of these like you're basically sitting on on the street. Going to get get a phone book and you can. [TS]

02:16:32   You can send some books they delivered your house and you have a reason to use them for something. [TS]