The Accidental Tech Podcast

00:00:00 ◼   ► do you have opinions on kidman's as by chance after your last show where the [TS]

00:00:05 ◼   ► three of us were talking about apples tick tock strategy with iOS somebody [TS]

00:00:11 ◼   ► tweeted out US publisher bandurski which are probably pronounced wrong I'm Sorry [TS]

00:00:15 ◼   ► Sorry public and he wrote a blog post that was actually fairly short so [TS]

00:00:19 ◼   ► hopefully we'll remember to put this in the show notes and you can take a look [TS]

00:00:22 ◼   ► but he made an interesting point the premise of it was you know what's [TS]

00:00:26 ◼   ► interesting is that the economic actually read this year the tick [TS]

00:00:30 ◼   ► versions of iOS came with the US versions of the devices iOS three with [TS]

00:00:34 ◼   ► iPhone gt3 GIS analyst 5 with the iPhone for us on the other hand [TS]

00:00:38 ◼   ► hardware releases such as such as the iPhone 4 and iPhone 5 launched alongside [TS]

00:00:43 ◼   ► talk releases of iOS iPhone 4 with iOS 4 and iPhone 5 with I was six so now not [TS]

00:00:51 ◼   ► reading anymore the general premise he drives a tease hey even though even if [TS]

00:00:56 ◼   ► you consider the software on a tick tock and if you consider the hardware in the [TS]

00:01:01 ◼   ► tick tock what's interesting is there [TS]

00:01:03 ◼   ► offset its like a hundred eighty-degree offset sine wave so there there's always [TS]

00:01:08 ◼   ► going to be taking always going to be a top and that's kind of an interesting [TS]

00:01:11 ◼   ► place to be and I thought that was an interesting point so I wanted to point [TS]

00:01:15 ◼   ► that out what we having trouble a show thinking about which iOS release was [TS]

00:01:20 ◼   ► like big or small electronic list off the major features like I don't know if [TS]

00:01:24 ◼   ► I buy that theory because it just doesn't seem to me that there has been [TS]

00:01:30 ◼   ► that kind of kid stylist but it could be that I'm just not paying enough [TS]

00:01:34 ◼   ► attention but like the fact that we were trying to think about was that a big [TS]

00:01:37 ◼   ► release what was in that one either we just told him that bad memories remember [TS]

00:01:41 ◼   ► was in them but they have all seem pretty even to me at this place [TS]

00:01:44 ◼   ► certainly none of them we're we're like a snow leopard to know you know that's [TS]

00:01:48 ◼   ► kind of feel like I i think im going on I can't really point to any I was [TS]

00:01:51 ◼   ► released and say oh that one was the 16 most of the problems and added a new [TS]

00:01:55 ◼   ► API's but didn't change much the user may be six but I wouldn't say it's [TS]

00:02:00 ◼   ► enough to really establish a pattern I mean at least [TS]

00:02:03 ◼   ► stan has had now to takes into talks at the white leopard Snow Leopard why [TS]

00:02:08 ◼   ► mountain lion and that that those four releases I think a very clearly followed [TS]

00:02:12 ◼   ► that [TS]

00:02:12 ◼   ► but even before that they didn't really good expert today that's why I think [TS]

00:02:18 ◼   ► we're still in that early period of Iowa swear it's like really simple not all [TS]

00:02:25 ◼   ► the features a bunch of stuff doesn't work and then the ones that you have to [TS]

00:02:28 ◼   ► get out to sort of shore up the API for public use and then some major features [TS]

00:02:33 ◼   ► like a pretty much follows closely along with you know the temple now 10.1 and [TS]

00:02:40 ◼   ► like you know it was STK was just he was to point out yeah yeah and you know and [TS]

00:02:45 ◼   ► then three four and five roughly matching with you know Panther tiger and [TS]

00:02:50 ◼   ► leopard and six should have been at Snow Leopard but it wasn't because six [TS]

00:02:56 ◼   ► brought you know even more features and more new stuff it was definitely not a [TS]

00:02:59 ◼   ► snow leopard cub release so I still think we're in the early part of Iowa's [TS]

00:03:06 ◼   ► release like maybe this maybe seven will be the first like maybe something will [TS]

00:03:11 ◼   ► be the right after seven maybe eight will be something that's more tame or [TS]

00:03:16 ◼   ► whatever but it seems like all the rumors of seven that it's not going to [TS]

00:03:19 ◼   ► be a team release even if it's just visual stuff in the global stand out in [TS]

00:03:23 ◼   ► our mind as a lot when they rejected you I rearrange the absence and presence but [TS]

00:03:30 ◼   ► we'll see but I would still say there's definitely no no snow leopard Snow [TS]

00:03:34 ◼   ► Leopard and I was yet know the other interesting thing that somebody on [TS]

00:03:38 ◼   ► Twitter pointed out I don't have this at reply handy so I apologize to whoever [TS]

00:03:42 ◼   ► you are but they pointed out that none of us thought about searing when we were [TS]

00:03:45 ◼   ► trying to think of a kind of marquee features I'm different iOS versions in [TS]

00:03:49 ◼   ► in the three of us don't even think about Syria and I don't know what that [TS]

00:03:52 ◼   ► says but it's an interesting observation that obviously didn't cross my mind when [TS]

00:03:57 ◼   ► we were talking about serious because it was tied to the 40 S as a device mostly [TS]

00:04:07 ◼   ► for marketing type reasons you know because it was tied this device and that [TS]

00:04:11 ◼   ► was the release like it was more like a feature of that phone and all devices [TS]

00:04:16 ◼   ► from that point forward it was less of like a ok starting with iOS 5 everybody [TS]

00:04:20 ◼   ► gets this school thing that's something we haven't done in the max not like it a [TS]

00:04:24 ◼   ► lot time machine and say and if you want to use Time Machine you got a Mac the [TS]

00:04:27 ◼   ► about this year and would not fly as much and they they pulled it off with [TS]

00:04:31 ◼   ► the forests as a differentiator but it's it's why we don't associated with that [TS]

00:04:37 ◼   ► was the OS that seriously that was the phone that Siri [TS]

00:04:41 ◼   ► anything else on a few [TS]

00:04:44 ◼   ► whatever you think so right so one of the things I want to talk about today [TS]

00:04:51 ◼   ► was Marco you finished Reviver well maybe not finished but at least got to a [TS]

00:04:56 ◼   ► stopping point for now on your PHP framework and I didn't know if you had [TS]

00:04:59 ◼   ► anything to share about that and if not I'm asking other probing question but [TS]

00:05:04 ◼   ► how did that go I can't wait for the probing but title now we have we have a [TS]

00:05:11 ◼   ► kind of a kind of real show but in the chat now so if the peacekeeping so I've [TS]

00:05:17 ◼   ► had this PHP framework that I've built let me know long time ago we built [TS]

00:05:23 ◼   ► tumbler with it and before time there we built David night David Carpenter I [TS]

00:05:27 ◼   ► built some client applications back near consultants before David decided to [TS]

00:05:32 ◼   ► start tumblr so we had this PHP free markets it's a basic MVC framework and [TS]

00:05:39 ◼   ► the reasons we rode our own back then were that we had tried rails and we have [TS]

00:05:43 ◼   ► tried cake for PHP and back then this isn't like 2006 we didn't I didn't and I [TS]

00:05:52 ◼   ► convince David I didn't like all the behind the scenes magic that frameworks [TS]

00:05:57 ◼   ► did unexpectedly like some magic is good and some magic is helpful I got like my [TS]

00:06:04 ◼   ► my fear was more than I wanted the framework to be more like libraries and [TS]

00:06:09 ◼   ► less like at the time what was trendy for quote frameworks which is they would [TS]

00:06:14 ◼   ► do so much for you and you end so it was it was hard to tell like if you were [TS]

00:06:19 ◼   ► seeing like a certain header being said are certain behavior certain filtering [TS]

00:06:23 ◼   ► or certain bugs it was hard to find where the heck that was coming from the [TS]

00:06:27 ◼   ► code and this is especially problem in Rails because of Ibiza mix ins and and [TS]

00:06:33 ◼   ► that becoming especially trendy in 2006 [TS]

00:06:36 ◼   ► so everyone was kind of overusing them and so was very very much like [TS]

00:06:40 ◼   ► categories and cocoa it was very very hard to find the code you were looking [TS]

00:06:47 ◼   ► for [TS]

00:06:47 ◼   ► to manage like what was going on because everything was there was so much magic [TS]

00:06:50 ◼   ► happening all the time with everything so my theory was I wanted something that [TS]

00:06:56 ◼   ► could provide helpful features like a library but where I knew everything that [TS]

00:07:01 ◼   ► was going to happen and what was not going to happen so it was very clear to [TS]

00:07:05 ◼   ► me [TS]

00:07:06 ◼   ► ok me as the as the person writing this action of this model what is my [TS]

00:07:10 ◼   ► responsibility what will happen and what won't and so we're on our own very basic [TS]

00:07:15 ◼   ► framework with some lessons from rails some lessons from ourselves some lessons [TS]

00:07:20 ◼   ► from cake and and we basically mature that into tumblr as time went on and on [TS]

00:07:27 ◼   ► and it is BSD licensed but it's not just about anywhere so our clients from [TS]

00:07:33 ◼   ► before tumblr they all have a copy a few programs here and there have a copy I [TS]

00:07:38 ◼   ► have a copy in stripper who is running on a copy and magazines gonna cut it [TS]

00:07:42 ◼   ► does not really open source framework but it would be open source if it ever [TS]

00:07:46 ◼   ► actually got out no legally so what I did when I left tumblr I forked it and [TS]

00:07:53 ◼   ► so tumblr continue doing their own thing with it and Tumblr did tons of changes [TS]

00:07:58 ◼   ► to it because they had to cuz they grew like crazy and they had a bill in like [TS]

00:08:03 ◼   ► automatic starting support stuff like that all sort stuff I've never seen and [TS]

00:08:07 ◼   ► Instapaper I don't have to do anything to it so mostly just SAT there and I [TS]

00:08:13 ◼   ► exchanged a few things here and there but I didn't really pointing out so it [TS]

00:08:17 ◼   ► still had a whole bunch of stuff from like halfway through tumblr scaling that [TS]

00:08:20 ◼   ► I had put in there and it was also based on PHP 5.1 and 5.2 even the most in 5.3 [TS]

00:08:28 ◼   ► the late static binding support in 5.3 that was added which makes data classes [TS]

00:08:34 ◼   ► work and useful way for the first time [TS]

00:08:36 ◼   ► yeah like I don't know why didn't have that in the beginning anyway that's [TS]

00:08:40 ◼   ► that's a little too specialized for the show [TS]

00:08:43 ◼   ► I was able to modernize the framework if I wanted to but in strippers code base [TS]

00:08:49 ◼   ► that point was big enough that it was kind of unwieldy to do that and it was [TS]

00:08:53 ◼   ► really ever worth my time to do that having just the paper though I am honest [TS]

00:08:58 ◼   ► I wanted to start being more web stuff in the future and I wanted to have a [TS]

00:09:04 ◼   ► really solid foundation for doing that and I thought about using other language [TS]

00:09:08 ◼   ► but as we've discussed in the show before much too many people's irritation [TS]

00:09:12 ◼   ► I don't think Ruby or Python really provide enough of the benefit of a PHP [TS]

00:09:20 ◼   ► if you add that if you're already an expert in PHP that you really need to [TS]

00:09:22 ◼   ► become an expert on one of those I think you can pick any of any of those three [TS]

00:09:25 ◼   ► become an expert in one of them and you're pretty well said you don't really [TS]

00:09:29 ◼   ► need the other ones that you know if you really want to learn a lot more [TS]

00:09:32 ◼   ► languages for other reasons like personal development or market value [TS]

00:09:36 ◼   ► whatever else but if you're if you're short on time and if you don't really [TS]

00:09:39 ◼   ► wanna be learning tons languages and he would rather take one master that one I [TS]

00:09:43 ◼   ► don't think you to master more than one of those three and I think the at the [TS]

00:09:47 ◼   ► alternatives things like node I would be looking at those in probably the future [TS]

00:09:52 ◼   ► but I think they're a little bit early right now so I'd rather not go that way [TS]

00:09:55 ◼   ► right now so I figure you know what PHP is great for me I know a lot of people [TS]

00:09:59 ◼   ► hate it but PHP is very good for me I know it extremely well and I know how to [TS]

00:10:05 ◼   ► scale it I know how to run it very cheaply in very easily with very little [TS]

00:10:09 ◼   ► effort and very few 3 a.m. wake ups for the census for the system in which is [TS]

00:10:13 ◼   ► usually me and and so I decided you know there's nothing really inherently wrong [TS]

00:10:19 ◼   ► with PHP that overcomes the barrier for me to to master something else to this [TS]

00:10:25 ◼   ► degree when I don't really want to be riding big web services as the only [TS]

00:10:31 ◼   ► thing I do you know if that was the only thing I was going to do that would be [TS]

00:10:35 ◼   ► fine I would be very very happy with it but I would learn lots of different [TS]

00:10:39 ◼   ► languages and pick the best one and really dive deeply into that one but for [TS]

00:10:44 ◼   ► me the web service and action is a great blog post by Brent Simmons that while [TS]

00:10:48 ◼   ► I'm rambling on you guys should read this and I'll talk about it a little bit [TS]

00:10:55 ◼   ► for me making web services is really a supporting role to what I really want to [TS]

00:10:59 ◼   ► do which is kinda making whole products they're mostly acts like Instapaper [TS]

00:11:06 ◼   ► pretty much was that the newspaper web service was was very low needs and I've [TS]

00:11:11 ◼   ► devoted very little to it for good and bad because I really want to do is [TS]

00:11:16 ◼   ► working on the app and the Apple is that like the premier experience well [TS]

00:11:20 ◼   ► whatever else I do in the future is probably gonna be that same way you know [TS]

00:11:23 ◼   ► I have mentioned in the past few prototypes of things that I'm trying to [TS]

00:11:27 ◼   ► figure out what I wanna do next with and they all have web components and but all [TS]

00:11:32 ◼   ► the components are are relatively unimportant compared to the at and so i [TS]

00:11:38 ◼   ► dont for me it's not worth like learning entire new Web languages and mastering [TS]

00:11:42 ◼   ► those platforms and and learning the hard way how to scale the mall and spend [TS]

00:11:47 ◼   ► all that time and stress on that when I'd rather be putting effort into the [TS]

00:11:51 ◼   ► apps and just the website you know I don't need the website to be to be my [TS]

00:11:56 ◼   ► experimental playground so so I decided this was a great time to modernize my [TS]

00:12:06 ◼   ► frameworks like I had only the magazine using it and nags and code base is very [TS]

00:12:10 ◼   ► very small so I thought this is a great time to modernize it when I really need [TS]

00:12:15 ◼   ► those a test and that way I can kind of read the test app as I modernize it so I [TS]

00:12:19 ◼   ► know what I'm breaking I know how I'm breaking it and what it needs to be and [TS]

00:12:23 ◼   ► I can kind of play with the API's as I'm making them and as I'm changing them to [TS]

00:12:28 ◼   ► stealing ok what works what doesn't what ends up being more or less elegant than [TS]

00:12:32 ◼   ► I expected [TS]

00:12:33 ◼   ► etcetera so my goal here is also open source framework now it's to finally [TS]

00:12:40 ◼   ► make it so incredibly different from what tumblr is running that I mean [TS]

00:12:46 ◼   ► legally I could have done it already but like you know I was always a little [TS]

00:12:51 ◼   ► afraid to release the framer that runs tumblr what if somebody find some [TS]

00:12:55 ◼   ► security problem and exploited against tumblr I would really not feel good [TS]

00:12:59 ◼   ► about that I was always very afraid about that [TS]

00:13:02 ◼   ► that I'm less afraid but it's my own thing i atleast know that ok I'm willing [TS]

00:13:08 ◼   ► to do that to myself I'm not unless less happy by doing that to somebody else mrs [TS]

00:13:12 ◼   ► somebody's biggest tumblr so I thought I would love to open source this and I [TS]

00:13:19 ◼   ► would love to modernize it and I would love to also write the sponsor tracking [TS]

00:13:23 ◼   ► system that I've been means do for market or four months as the way as I [TS]

00:13:28 ◼   ► track my sponsors from archive.org is this giant spreadsheet that sucks and [TS]

00:13:33 ◼   ► it's so it's so human based and error-prone and it's always it always [TS]

00:13:39 ◼   ► freaks me out what if I booked the wrong spot you know what I publish something [TS]

00:13:42 ◼   ► from the wrong day long week what if I i think is sponsored hasn't paid but they [TS]

00:13:47 ◼   ► have or vice versa [TS]

00:13:49 ◼   ► like you know what if I type and number wrong if I instant typo and something is [TS]

00:13:53 ◼   ► really messed up so that I needed something better than a spreadsheet to [TS]

00:13:58 ◼   ► manage that I also want to start addition to having sponsorships for this [TS]

00:14:04 ◼   ► show that had to manage ok we have we sell sponsorships for this at another [TS]

00:14:08 ◼   ► property suspension for so initially started out in the table in my [TS]

00:14:12 ◼   ► spreadsheet that was very similar to the first table but then it to build on [TS]

00:14:16 ◼   ► things like you know we all we all split the money that comes in so I had to [TS]

00:14:21 ◼   ► build in how to pick how do you know I take the money and I have to pay you [TS]

00:14:24 ◼   ► guys out your inner portions of it so I have to you know that that's another [TS]

00:14:28 ◼   ► layer on top of this that is error-prone and could be messed up and starts really [TS]

00:14:34 ◼   ► pushing the boundaries of what spreadsheets can do gracefully i mean [TS]

00:14:37 ◼   ► they can do it in many non graceful ways but what they can do gracefully his you [TS]

00:14:42 ◼   ► know this is kind of a bad thing for them and then what really killed it is I [TS]

00:14:48 ◼   ► wanted all three of us to be able to log in and look at sponsors and sell [TS]

00:14:54 ◼   ► sponsorships and so we needed multi-user access you can go Google Docs but then [TS]

00:14:59 ◼   ► it's just there's the more layers you add to the spreadsheet that the crappier [TS]

00:15:03 ◼   ► that solution becomes and the more likely it is like exponentially more [TS]

00:15:06 ◼   ► likely it is that something will go wrong at some point and that's really [TS]

00:15:10 ◼   ► bad so I decided [TS]

00:15:14 ◼   ► let's build this let's build a system and that's a perfect test case app for [TS]

00:15:20 ◼   ► my new framework of a new version of this framework which is almost [TS]

00:15:25 ◼   ► completely rewritten turns out and its way smaller framework and my goal is to [TS]

00:15:31 ◼   ► open source both the framework and this example project of my invoicing system [TS]

00:15:36 ◼   ► fairly soon so you guys have anything to say after that massive delay 23 minutes [TS]

00:15:45 ◼   ► in the idea but I'll give John a chance because I have a comparatively much [TS]

00:15:50 ◼   ► shorter monologue [TS]

00:15:52 ◼   ► I'm looking at your notes I know what you're gonna ask him and it's exactly [TS]

00:15:55 ◼   ► the same thing that i'm gonna go ahead and go for you the notes that apparently [TS]

00:16:01 ◼   ► Casey and I use but Marco shot I got it was it was a micro get oh yeah that's [TS]

00:16:07 ◼   ► where mine is so since I'm talking I will go ahead and ask by telling a very [TS]

00:16:11 ◼   ► brief story so few days back [TS]

00:16:12 ◼   ► Marco sends John an email saying hey this is up here's where you can go and I [TS]

00:16:19 ◼   ► load the URL and all I see is a text form and a button and the tax form says [TS]

00:16:25 ◼   ► give me your email address and then login and I think to myself this is [TS]

00:16:31 ◼   ► weird I haven't created a user account or knowingly anyway I haven't given him [TS]

00:16:37 ◼   ► a password of any sort of what's going on so I enter my email address I hit the [TS]

00:16:42 ◼   ► button and next thing I know his fancy Marquez fancy sponsorship checker says [TS]

00:16:47 ◼   ► okay look at your email you'll get a login URL there in so sure enough [TS]

00:16:51 ◼   ► instantly I look at my email and there's a email from Marcos fancy app thing and [TS]

00:16:58 ◼   ► it says here click this link and you can get logged in and that's exactly what [TS]

00:17:01 ◼   ► happened and so it was a very different and interesting way to handle user [TS]

00:17:07 ◼   ► authentication and authorization always get the A's wrong but handle locking in [TS]

00:17:12 ◼   ► without me ever giving him a password so in summary my question to you Marco and [TS]

00:17:17 ◼   ► John feel free to jump in and why do you keep passwords so much [TS]

00:17:20 ◼   ► does the same thing on the magazine site which I'm assuming you did this i I have [TS]

00:17:27 ◼   ► the you know when I saw it I immediately knew the years of the same time as the [TS]

00:17:30 ◼   ► magazine insiders seem like it [TS]

00:17:32 ◼   ► most insanely good to ya and I don't like either I complained to my wife that [TS]

00:17:37 ◼   ► he still in this thing without password again another one of my first the first [TS]

00:17:42 ◼   ► things first interaction I had with you and your products online was when I [TS]

00:17:45 ◼   ► first signed up for Instapaper and back then you didn't need a password for [TS]

00:17:48 ◼   ► Instapaper which was awesome and I love it not like not like this you just like [TS]

00:17:52 ◼   ► literally didn't need a password so for the first whatever was year or two years [TS]

00:17:55 ◼   ► or however long you let us not have passwords anybody could have seen my [TS]

00:17:59 ◼   ► Instapaper leagues I don't care wasn't anything secret there I just love not [TS]

00:18:03 ◼   ► having the password remember I just had to remember my username and there was no [TS]

00:18:07 ◼   ► answer I didn't care that was totally insecure fine go ahead I guess I could [TS]

00:18:12 ◼   ► have used that to start adding stuff to make the paper and then you have the [TS]

00:18:15 ◼   ► option to edit passwords of someone found it started using it and erased all [TS]

00:18:18 ◼   ► my side like art final a passport so I'm all thumbs up for not having a pass Berg [TS]

00:18:24 ◼   ► but thumbs down for every time I log in sending me an email with the link is [TS]

00:18:29 ◼   ► first of all I can you first of the magazine there was like male backlog [TS]

00:18:33 ◼   ► nothing is more frustrating that wanting to get into something and not being able [TS]

00:18:36 ◼   ► to because your mail hasn't arrived yet it was a long time since this is not [TS]

00:18:41 ◼   ► your fault it's not on the receiving end you know it's email store-and-forward [TS]

00:18:45 ◼   ► like it could be not in your control that I'm sitting there could be great I [TS]

00:18:49 ◼   ► refresh button trying to rate from I think the camp and the second thing is [TS]

00:18:52 ◼   ► this is really mostly I was his fault of the city the environment you're in I use [TS]

00:18:56 ◼   ► the Gmail app on iOS and when the email comes to delink on it I can't tap that [TS]

00:19:02 ◼   ► link because then that will open in the Gmail outs built-in browser and I'll be [TS]

00:19:06 ◼   ► logged in there in some sort of you know right hand side navigation pane to the [TS]

00:19:10 ◼   ► Gmail app but I'm not logged in Mobile Safari and that link is now dead because [TS]

00:19:14 ◼   ► I think you kill them off after they could use our pass right and so now I [TS]

00:19:19 ◼   ► have to go back to the site [TS]

00:19:20 ◼   ► make an email me another link remembered whole tap and hold on let me copy copy [TS]

00:19:24 ◼   ► the URL they gonna Mobile Safari then paste under thing and then use it in [TS]

00:19:28 ◼   ► over there so I'm I do not find the user experience of this password list thing [TS]

00:19:35 ◼   ► agreeable [TS]

00:19:37 ◼   ► it's funny because I don't have any problem with the password lists idea in [TS]

00:19:44 ◼   ► principle but I T was likely to have to wait for darn email to come in and in [TS]

00:19:49 ◼   ► retrospect thinking about it more actually think by and large this isn't a [TS]

00:19:52 ◼   ► bad set up and it strikes me as a and I'm not a security minded [TS]

00:19:57 ◼   ► oil bearing nut job but it strikes me as though it's a pretty good setup the same [TS]

00:20:02 ◼   ► is it the same as using a password because if you have access to my email [TS]

00:20:05 ◼   ► account passwords don't matter and if you have access to my email to counter [TS]

00:20:08 ◼   ► this thing customers don't matter is that a security thing with any lesser [TS]

00:20:11 ◼   ► more secure [TS]

00:20:12 ◼   ► well it isn't one way and that is that you can't get somebody's password cuz [TS]

00:20:17 ◼   ► they don't have one the only way to login is by having access to their email [TS]

00:20:21 ◼   ► you the password for their email address and he was moving you know moving to [TS]

00:20:27 ◼   ► know from your site to their you know that's a little bit better this is [TS]

00:20:31 ◼   ► especially so many emails have to factor now exactly took the words right out of [TS]

00:20:34 ◼   ► my mouth should have superior support Google login and I can use my existing [TS]

00:20:40 ◼   ► to factor to get into your site [TS]

00:20:43 ◼   ► yea well obviously you're probably thinking about it like this everyone [TS]

00:20:51 ◼   ► always wants to solve the problem of identity on the web because it's such a [TS]

00:20:55 ◼   ► pain in the butt no matter what you do and there's just no good solution [TS]

00:20:59 ◼   ► everything has tradeoffs in detroit also this one or just a different set of her [TS]

00:21:02 ◼   ► office and it but I find it particularly special for the magazine like I i [TS]

00:21:07 ◼   ► subscribe to the magazine I get in the iOS App occasionally run over wanna read [TS]

00:21:11 ◼   ► it on the web thing and inevitably I somehow find that I'm using a browser on [TS]

00:21:14 ◼   ► a machine that doesn't have the right cokie and I gotta go through the email [TS]

00:21:17 ◼   ► thing just that that tiny delay makes me unhappy I rather liked you know auto [TS]

00:21:23 ◼   ► fill my password is remember one password or use your some other means [TS]

00:21:26 ◼   ► that I can get myself logged in to read the magazine actually telling the sign [TS]

00:21:32 ◼   ► up for the magazine subscriber you should do like no I do just show me the [TS]

00:21:35 ◼   ► article [TS]

00:21:37 ◼   ► year I know but it works [TS]

00:21:42 ◼   ► causing my cookies and web development of some browsers and I'm constantly [TS]

00:21:46 ◼   ► wiping cookies and doing private browsing and good I don't know maybe I [TS]

00:21:50 ◼   ► just have to spread maybe it's like to factor where I had to have some sort of [TS]

00:21:53 ◼   ► ramp-up period where I spread the little the authentication tokens to all of my [TS]

00:21:58 ◼   ► browsers and all my jars as we call them back in the day but it hasn't happened [TS]

00:22:03 ◼   ► yet again Casey I mean to be honest I don't have a whole lot air I don't mind [TS]

00:22:10 ◼   ► it nearly as much as John does but I'm not nearly as much corruption apparently [TS]

00:22:14 ◼   ► I think it's it's interesting because we all hate passwords we all want them to [TS]

00:22:20 ◼   ► go away but no obviously nobody's really crack that nut on what the right answer [TS]

00:22:24 ◼   ► is an end for me since this is a site that I'm not gonna look at every single [TS]

00:22:28 ◼   ► day I don't find it as as egregious pain in the butt but with that said it was [TS]

00:22:34 ◼   ► something that I used frequently I think I would trying to just as annoying as [TS]

00:22:39 ◼   ► john doe's so yeah I think it's a very hard problem in the magazine I i never [TS]

00:22:44 ◼   ► to this and Instapaper the magazine was the first thing I did was publicly and [TS]

00:22:47 ◼   ► any i mean and the way it works in case in case someone is still behind us it [TS]

00:22:52 ◼   ► basically treats every log in like a password reset where you say you want to [TS]

00:22:57 ◼   ► login type in your email address and email you a link with a with a single [TS]

00:23:00 ◼   ► use hash on it and that then the apt read that has for a long until you're [TS]

00:23:05 ◼   ► logged in and you know it's like a password reset where you don't even set [TS]

00:23:10 ◼   ► the new password is logged in and it's it's interesting it solves a very [TS]

00:23:17 ◼   ► similar to insta papers original no password [TS]

00:23:22 ◼   ► accounts at all it solves some problems but it creates other problems and so I'm [TS]

00:23:29 ◼   ► not sure if it's a net win in general I think you can look at you know where the [TS]

00:23:34 ◼   ► use of here which is kinda like an admin panel I think admin panels and kind of [TS]

00:23:39 ◼   ► internet type thing where security is needed anything like that we're like [TS]

00:23:44 ◼   ► it's not the general public having to log in [TS]

00:23:48 ◼   ► and you don't have a ton of people using the Gmail app on their phone I know how [TS]

00:23:51 ◼   ► to copy links and stuff like that like situations like that I think it's a [TS]

00:23:57 ◼   ► great solution I think that's why I will probably do this for every admin panel [TS]

00:24:02 ◼   ► that I ever do again because it's it's so much more secure than just having [TS]

00:24:07 ◼   ► some kind of admin password up there and it's it's great for that and I was what [TS]

00:24:14 ◼   ► makes you think is more securities I can see I think it's better from your [TS]

00:24:17 ◼   ► perspective as a person running the service because you don't have to store [TS]

00:24:19 ◼   ► passwords and if you don't have to start passwords that means the pressure is off [TS]

00:24:22 ◼   ► you to keep security and you know all that dozens of whatever but I don't know [TS]

00:24:29 ◼   ► if that's better for the people who are using the product because as far as [TS]

00:24:33 ◼   ► they're concerned it's your responsibility to make sure the password [TS]

00:24:36 ◼   ► version of the best result can now make sure you you know you be gripped the [TS]

00:24:41 ◼   ► slower setting another whole crazy stuff like that I think this makes definitely [TS]

00:24:46 ◼   ► makes it better for you writing this service but as a user of the service I [TS]

00:24:49 ◼   ► don't see any security advantages from my perspective it is slowdowns well I [TS]

00:24:54 ◼   ► think the security advantages that my service now becomes as secure as your [TS]

00:24:59 ◼   ► email which is probably more see which you know given that most people use [TS]

00:25:03 ◼   ► webmail for their own email addresses are not for work with most people use [TS]

00:25:07 ◼   ► webmail and most webmail services are are really locking down the security [TS]

00:25:11 ◼   ► really well i think thats I don't think it's that big that bad everything to [TS]

00:25:16 ◼   ► reliable as you said most things are only as secure as your email at most [TS]

00:25:21 ◼   ► anyway cuz you can always do a password reset so you know if I would if I were [TS]

00:25:26 ◼   ► to do any kind of set your own password for this even if I would add two factors [TS]

00:25:32 ◼   ► I think if I have some way to you need to use your email addresses are reset [TS]

00:25:37 ◼   ► mechanism for the most part unless I have my own two factors thing which is [TS]

00:25:42 ◼   ► pup it was possible but I think that would be even more overkill if you don't [TS]

00:25:46 ◼   ► like having to wait for an email and click link you're gonna hate to factor [TS]

00:25:49 ◼   ► but if your gonna delegated authentication to someone else was like [TS]

00:25:52 ◼   ► your delegating too are you know provider why not like literally [TS]

00:25:55 ◼   ► delegated authentication to someone else and do what the sites do it [TS]

00:25:58 ◼   ► you pick one that you decide to be blessed which is fine for him inside are [TS]

00:26:01 ◼   ► you have three buttons a login with your Facebook ID Open ID and all those cases [TS]

00:26:06 ◼   ► your delegating the authentication to an external service but then you don't have [TS]

00:26:10 ◼   ► to deal with it at all except for writing implication of things in a min [TS]

00:26:13 ◼   ► page it's ok well you can't log in with Facebook and you can't log in with [TS]

00:26:18 ◼   ► OpenID login with Google you know like you can you can limit your options [TS]

00:26:22 ◼   ► first of all this is simpler and easier for everybody because they see the big [TS]

00:26:26 ◼   ► the big problem with those Login with Facebook or Twitter or whatever with [TS]

00:26:30 ◼   ► those things and OpenID which is itself a massive trade record of normal person [TS]

00:26:35 ◼   ► usability it even for kickers ability open ideas is a mess but I mean look at [TS]

00:26:40 ◼   ► stackoverflow they had they they were OpenID only for the first few years of [TS]

00:26:44 ◼   ► their life and works well but the problem was even with that extremely [TS]

00:26:50 ◼   ► nerdy audience it was still a major problem I think the the environment is [TS]

00:26:55 ◼   ► got not only the team that tonight [TS]

00:26:58 ◼   ► doesn t Springside and idk when it offered as an option but I just created [TS]

00:27:02 ◼   ► my own account he is the major problem with those kind of things were you can [TS]

00:27:06 ◼   ► say log in with OpenID or with Facebook or Twitter the main problem is that [TS]

00:27:10 ◼   ► every time you go back to this Site you have to remember which one you login [TS]

00:27:13 ◼   ► with the first time that's why I was saying just offer one like tournaments [TS]

00:27:16 ◼   ► are you just pick one that's what I do its your email address I don't know when [TS]

00:27:22 ◼   ► I go to the T spring site I click the button that says login with Google [TS]

00:27:26 ◼   ► doesn't do anything further because I've already done the thing once when I go to [TS]

00:27:29 ◼   ► your side every time I have to click and go get the email but when you go back to [TS]

00:27:35 ◼   ► the tee spring site in a year and you haven't used it in an entire year and [TS]

00:27:39 ◼   ► you go back here and it's one of my login with which one was it you know [TS]

00:27:44 ◼   ► it's it's a problem that create support emails like crazy you would not believe [TS]

00:27:47 ◼   ► how much support that generation you have that kind of option but again for [TS]

00:27:50 ◼   ► an inside support as well sure but for I would also argue that freedom in sight [TS]

00:27:56 ◼   ► like there there's really no benefit to doing that your way inside of my way for [TS]

00:28:02 ◼   ► an admin site because either way you're like [TS]

00:28:06 ◼   ► you're likely to hit a small delay sometimes either way you know if if [TS]

00:28:10 ◼   ► you're saying log on my Google account [TS]

00:28:12 ◼   ► might be one or you might have to rely into your Google account might have been [TS]

00:28:17 ◼   ► too long since you've last time out like if you're making your cookies last [TS]

00:28:22 ◼   ► four-year whatever that means anyone who you know find someone doesn't like it [TS]

00:28:27 ◼   ► but if I log in I have to remember that if I log in a strange machine I have to [TS]

00:28:31 ◼   ► make sure that I get rid of that so that that person can perpetually log in as me [TS]

00:28:35 ◼   ► because now that the cookie and I mean whereas with your delegating entirely to [TS]

00:28:39 ◼   ► an external service all the management of revoking access and timing out and [TS]

00:28:43 ◼   ► whatever is on the external surface right yeah but but also like it [TS]

00:28:50 ◼   ► the extra level of complexity of dealing with someone else a service for this it [TS]

00:28:54 ◼   ► adds almost as many annoyances and flaws and support headaches as doing it the [TS]

00:29:00 ◼   ► way I'm doing it with emails that that's what is it what is it been like for the [TS]

00:29:04 ◼   ► magazine was like this is a bad example history and whatever but it's like the [TS]

00:29:09 ◼   ► magazine's many many more people i said im going to be compared to what you [TS]

00:29:14 ◼   ► haven't implemented like you know login with your Google account as well [TS]

00:29:19 ◼   ► what has that been like you mentioned you mentioned the copy and pasting from [TS]

00:29:23 ◼   ► the Gmail app order is that just because I mentioned to do actually that's [TS]

00:29:26 ◼   ► actually I should probably use Gmail some point in my life but now with the [TS]

00:29:33 ◼   ► magazine it's it's been interesting this right I'm not sure I would use it again [TS]

00:29:39 ◼   ► for like a big consumer facing thing at least not yet because the main problem [TS]

00:29:44 ◼   ► is that when you have a username and password you can enter those no matter [TS]

00:29:51 ◼   ► where you are no matter what Apple context you're in you can enter those [TS]

00:29:55 ◼   ► immediately as you say you do not have an account alleged be logged in as long [TS]

00:30:00 ◼   ► as you know the password and yet as people like us use one password and [TS]

00:30:03 ◼   ► generate long-term garbage so for us a little more complicated but most people [TS]

00:30:06 ◼   ► don't do that unfortunately so the big problem is first of all your time [TS]

00:30:12 ◼   ► something to email delivery which is similar to tyson to someone else's [TS]

00:30:16 ◼   ► account their opportunities to go wrong or to be delayed [TS]

00:30:19 ◼   ► aid and email delivery can be somewhat assumed to occur you can generally [TS]

00:30:25 ◼   ► assume that an email will usually get there there of course complications [TS]

00:30:29 ◼   ► there but usually Cancino get there but you can't guarantee is it an email to [TS]

00:30:34 ◼   ► get there quickly because there's things like greatest thing and all sorts of [TS]

00:30:39 ◼   ► weird antispam measures and server configurations and everything that will [TS]

00:30:44 ◼   ► frequently delayed message by like a half hour or three hours from the first [TS]

00:30:49 ◼   ► time hearing from you or something so that becomes harder when you say alright [TS]

00:30:53 ◼   ► login click here to get an email in two seconds [TS]

00:30:56 ◼   ► well that's great if it comes in two seconds every time but it doesn't always [TS]

00:30:59 ◼   ► come to do seconds for most people and there's like the one percent that it [TS]

00:31:03 ◼   ► doesn't come in two seconds for and they get upset and and the email your support [TS]

00:31:06 ◼   ► and there's really no way for you to do anything about that quickly and I keep [TS]

00:31:10 ◼   ► entering their email address and click on the button again and again queuing up [TS]

00:31:13 ◼   ► seventeen and evaluating their previous 10 minutes right click the third one [TS]

00:31:18 ◼   ► that came not realizing that it was invalidated when you sent the eighth one [TS]

00:31:21 ◼   ► exactly so so it you know it's not perfect in that regard and also you know [TS]

00:31:27 ◼   ► what I this is actually one of the last building codes I talked about when I [TS]

00:31:32 ◼   ► made the magazine how in an effort of her with the goal of simplicity I wanted [TS]

00:31:38 ◼   ► it to have no settings in the app is no setting screen like to have everything [TS]

00:31:42 ◼   ► just be available in the interface with no gear icon with the settings screen on [TS]

00:31:47 ◼   ► it you know I didn't want to some big long list of checkboxes are ever going [TS]

00:31:50 ◼   ► to be very very simple and the problem was that to avoid having a setting [TS]

00:31:53 ◼   ► screen I had to make other dad design decisions like how to logout from [TS]

00:31:58 ◼   ► Instapaper if he would logged into sensitive to it that they were there [TS]

00:32:01 ◼   ► were other decisions ahead to make that were bad decisions in order to support [TS]

00:32:05 ◼   ► this one thing I thought was a good decision and so that the login later the [TS]

00:32:11 ◼   ► password to login system that uses email is it has a few of those things like [TS]

00:32:15 ◼   ► there's a there's a few weird little stupid things that I had to do to make [TS]

00:32:19 ◼   ► that work that are bad design decisions even though the email thing i think is [TS]

00:32:24 ◼   ► overall a good one standing on its own so one of those things is when you when [TS]

00:32:30 ◼   ► you want to connect when you want to [TS]

00:32:33 ◼   ► think your account between the app and the website on your iOS device or when [TS]

00:32:38 ◼   ► you want to sync your website where you want to be like if you subscribed in the [TS]

00:32:43 ◼   ► app and you want to browse it on the website on the desktop or if you decide [TS]

00:32:49 ◼   ► that you want to read it in the ass communicating between the browsers and [TS]

00:32:53 ◼   ► in the website and Apple purchased thing in these three different places when you [TS]

00:32:59 ◼   ► have a password will be easy it would just be entered this user name and [TS]

00:33:03 ◼   ► password in the other place and you're logged in [TS]

00:33:05 ◼   ► done the way I do it though since there's no password is like for the apt [TS]

00:33:10 ◼   ► to register its subscription with the website I have the app compose an email [TS]

00:33:16 ◼   ► message with an attachment that encodes budget data and then it send it to my [TS]

00:33:21 ◼   ► server the server associate that with the email is sent [TS]

00:33:24 ◼   ► which had a problem with the email that you sent that from is not your primary [TS]

00:33:28 ◼   ► email address other problems with that I think I did that a few times I'm very [TS]

00:33:32 ◼   ► confused on launch because I don't use the email address I use for things [TS]

00:33:37 ◼   ► different than the email address I use as my like i club you know exactly and [TS]

00:33:43 ◼   ► thats I wouldn't say that's a common case but there's certainly enough people [TS]

00:33:47 ◼   ► who do that that it's problematic if you if you don't support that they expect [TS]

00:33:53 ◼   ► and so there's there's that issue that you know going that way in the other [TS]

00:33:57 ◼   ► direction I would like to know [TS]

00:33:58 ◼   ► log-in the website on your device to open this link that I'll mail to you and [TS]

00:34:02 ◼   ► then we'll send you like a the magazine app colon slash slash garbage URL to [TS]

00:34:09 ◼   ► open up in the iOS app to associate in the other direction and that's kind of [TS]

00:34:13 ◼   ► ugly and can have some of its own problems as well so you know i i had [TS]

00:34:18 ◼   ► this this technical need to associate these are catching these two places and [TS]

00:34:23 ◼   ► password really would have a lot easier [TS]

00:34:25 ◼   ► always comes out with the web service API is for iCloud authentication [TS]

00:34:29 ◼   ► response but yeah and so i think overall I I think the patent system it's it's [TS]

00:34:38 ◼   ► interesting and that's why that's why I did it interesting I i do think I'm [TS]

00:34:42 ◼   ► going to keep it for admin panel type stuff [TS]

00:34:44 ◼   ► I don't know if anything else with that as the main thing is you know because in [TS]

00:34:51 ◼   ► fact if people were if this was like 2005 still and most people are still [TS]

00:34:55 ◼   ► doing everything on their computers and you were looking into a website that [TS]

00:35:00 ◼   ► would actually make way more sense and it will be fine I would probably do it [TS]

00:35:03 ◼   ► no question now with everyone doing things on all these different types of [TS]

00:35:07 ◼   ► devices with all these different like sandbox siloed apps and everything and [TS]

00:35:12 ◼   ► everything is running full screen was no good multi tasking and iOS or no clear [TS]

00:35:16 ◼   ► indication that all these problems that actually now the system is less [TS]

00:35:21 ◼   ► practical than it would have been in 2005 and I i dont think going to do it [TS]

00:35:27 ◼   ► again for the main login for something and also another problem is that it [TS]

00:35:32 ◼   ► hasn't worked with people expect and because people are used to [TS]

00:35:37 ◼   ► username and password or email and password for you so that when you've put [TS]

00:35:41 ◼   ► something up there they don't expect even if it's simple to you and your mind [TS]

00:35:46 ◼   ► even if it's simpler they're thrown off for a second leading minute how do I do [TS]

00:35:51 ◼   ► this where we put the password I get it slows people down and people make [TS]

00:35:55 ◼   ► mistakes and the question themselves in the doubt themselves and that ultimately [TS]

00:35:58 ◼   ► can make all your goals were like maybe they don't finish sign up for maybe they [TS]

00:36:02 ◼   ► don't finish their shopping cart purchase or whatever so it's a hard call [TS]

00:36:06 ◼   ► if you want to deviate from the norm at something so simple as how do you log [TS]

00:36:10 ◼   ► into your site that you should use caution if you're deviating on the plus [TS]

00:36:16 ◼   ► side I have gotten almost zero support emails for password related or login [TS]

00:36:21 ◼   ► related anything the problem is you know if you know if you can't figure it out [TS]

00:36:25 ◼   ► you probably just give up but obviously I have no password reset requests which [TS]

00:36:31 ◼   ► any support person the most common request matter how prominent you make [TS]

00:36:35 ◼   ► that link of for a password click here to email address wrong there's the [TS]

00:36:39 ◼   ► Spoony precautions like [TS]

00:36:41 ◼   ► I don't get any of those for the magazine which is awesome so it does [TS]

00:36:45 ◼   ► save support by a dramatic amount but there are other problems with it that [TS]

00:36:50 ◼   ► will give me pause for using it in certain contexts anyway this absurd our [TS]

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00:38:52 ◼   ► anyway visit Mac Mini vault dot com slash try [TS]

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00:39:00 ◼   ► code ATP 58 EPE 54 X and our podcast 50% off it takes 50% off the collocation [TS]

00:39:08 ◼   ► fees for the first three months great customers there including the media the [TS]

00:39:13 ◼   ► people who make instant cast they host their backend thing there and crashed [TS]

00:39:17 ◼   ► Linux the big powerful and let us we crashing report solution which is a [TS]

00:39:22 ◼   ► previous sponsor of my site they use Mac Mini fault as part of its testing and [TS]

00:39:27 ◼   ► development environments that's pretty cool that I seventy Mac Mini's now over [TS]

00:39:33 ◼   ► 900 pre-wired slots for the future they they are well set to expand greatly with [TS]

00:39:37 ◼   ► all of you going and creating accounts they're so good a Mac Mini vogue.com / [TS]

00:39:41 ◼   ► try started free demo and use our promo code ATP 52 get 50% off thank you to Mac [TS]

00:39:48 ◼   ► Mini vault for sponsor 50% that is the new winner for largest percent yeah the [TS]

00:39:54 ◼   ► sponsor of the show 50% coming months about comments as well that that good [TS]

00:39:59 ◼   ► for them for really showing they mean they mean business [TS]

00:40:03 ◼   ► I wonder if the existence of the Mac Mini contributed to Apple's decision to [TS]

00:40:07 ◼   ► start to discontinue definitely like we have access to tech podcast that [TS]

00:40:12 ◼   ► accidental server hardware is I don't think they made the Mac Mini thinking [TS]

00:40:18 ◼   ► this is gonna write the data center but as soon as they made a machine that [TS]

00:40:20 ◼   ► shape people are like 600 of those and you know to you rack up the Mac Mini you [TS]

00:40:27 ◼   ► like when Steve Jobs introduced the Motorola ROKR phone that terrible iTunes [TS]

00:40:32 ◼   ► phone that came out before the iPhone and and you could tell when Steve [TS]

00:40:35 ◼   ► introduced that EA anger about us a while ago you could smell like he just [TS]

00:40:39 ◼   ► really did not like it he he did not like the product he didn't like that it [TS]

00:40:43 ◼   ► had to exist like you know the market was demanding something like that and so [TS]

00:40:47 ◼   ► they made it kind of reluctantly and he just kind of like you know shouted out [TS]

00:40:51 ◼   ► there and and was ok with it I think the Mac Mini was kinda like that for him [TS]

00:40:57 ◼   ► like I don't think he gave a crap about the Mac Mini [TS]

00:41:00 ◼   ► and obviously it's a very low priority for Apple most the time they hardly ever [TS]

00:41:05 ◼   ► update thing even when the other things going to do with the same CPU it's [TS]

00:41:10 ◼   ► obviously a low priority but they keep it around because they probably do some [TS]

00:41:13 ◼   ► good number of them but it's always kind of seemed like this product that they [TS]

00:41:17 ◼   ► reluctantly keeping their lineup because people do love it way more than Apple [TS]

00:41:22 ◼   ► seems to hook well jobs are probably sore about the cute things still has [TS]

00:41:26 ◼   ► like I dunno I made this machine and when it was much better looking in your [TS]

00:41:29 ◼   ► eyes didn't wanna its cool glass still 800 bucks and liners exam admit it you [TS]

00:41:41 ◼   ► know it's much too early it's true this one of those pricey didn't seem to have [TS]

00:41:43 ◼   ► super duper enthusiasm about but other I mean that's the weird thing like if the [TS]

00:41:48 ◼   ► company is not enthusiastic a product about a product but a certain subset of [TS]

00:41:52 ◼   ► the customers are and it's very clear that a certain subset of customers is [TS]

00:41:56 ◼   ► really interesting about the Mac many people who want us to come and data [TS]

00:41:59 ◼   ► centers and even I've seen people who just you know like users who have lots [TS]

00:42:03 ◼   ► of Max just need another Mac to just be an extra machine for back when exposed [TS]

00:42:09 ◼   ► to that goes to support distributed compile I haven't read the new version [TS]

00:42:14 ◼   ► that I know but I can always stop having a Mac Mini in the car to be a media [TS]

00:42:20 ◼   ► machine and just you know I just need another Mac for this other room so I was [TS]

00:42:23 ◼   ► getting many are using it as a server to attached storage doing stuff like that [TS]

00:42:27 ◼   ► so I still have that little machine even though Apple like it does not seem to be [TS]

00:42:33 ◼   ► that into it but you know everyone always thinks myself included you know [TS]

00:42:36 ◼   ► we thought a number of times in the past we found out this is gonna be the year [TS]

00:42:40 ◼   ► that killed a Mac Mini and it never gets killed it still it's still sitting there [TS]

00:42:44 ◼   ► even when it goes like I would like two years maybe without like them just go [TS]

00:42:49 ◼   ► down in price comes out of the shop still really expensive but usually goes [TS]

00:42:54 ◼   ► up by a hundred bucks yeah but it's funny I haven't for awhile to get people [TS]

00:43:00 ◼   ► use them as a cast as several hundred there's so many little things you do [TS]

00:43:03 ◼   ► with them so anyway thanks to them for sponsor Mac Mini vault dot com [TS]

00:43:10 ◼   ► so I I mentioned before the break I want to talk about this article by Brent [TS]

00:43:15 ◼   ► Simmons you as you get a chance to read it was rambling about various stuff [TS]

00:43:18 ◼   ► before during the day of course release candidate oK so it's called 30 minutes [TS]

00:43:25 ◼   ► to sink on an essential dot com weblog and we will high-speed weblog and we [TS]

00:43:30 ◼   ► will post it in the show notes I never see weblog and just made fun of Glen her [TS]

00:43:36 ◼   ► writing that I picked up stream but he also says capital webspace site and I [TS]

00:43:42 ◼   ► don't know I don't do that [TS]

00:43:44 ◼   ► climbing plants as a lot of things anyway so you know at least at least [TS]

00:43:52 ◼   ► vlog didn't catch on [TS]

00:43:54 ◼   ► we can at least be happy about that should also know what before we talk [TS]

00:44:00 ◼   ► about now they're talking about stupid word should it for a new media craft we [TS]

00:44:02 ◼   ► invented nerds I've heard a lot of discussion about the word podcast I [TS]

00:44:09 ◼   ► heard there's a great podcast called he called next market have to look this up [TS]

00:44:14 ◼   ► and this guy who does he's doing interviews about people in the pod [TS]

00:44:18 ◼   ► testing world talk about the business of podcasting and you know Leo Laporte [TS]

00:44:22 ◼   ► famously does not like the word podcast and use of the word NetCast to describe [TS]

00:44:26 ◼   ► what he does [TS]

00:44:27 ◼   ► damn benjamin has said he doesn't like it but he still uses it because although [TS]

00:44:31 ◼   ► he tries to do like internet broadcast I think there's there's been a lot of you [TS]

00:44:35 ◼   ► know a lot of people who are being in the podcast world have tried to use a [TS]

00:44:40 ◼   ► different word and I think what do you think of the word podcast I think it's [TS]

00:44:46 ◼   ► fair fairly terrible and it was super duper lucky that it caught on the way it [TS]

00:44:51 ◼   ► did because like Apple didn't call it you know it but it was so ride to [TS]

00:44:56 ◼   ► Apple's product the iPod there was like a happy accident like oh I guess we home [TS]

00:45:00 ◼   ► this space are named our products practically in it had never been [TS]

00:45:05 ◼   ► bothered by it enough to say you guys are wrong but it's never ever ever [TS]

00:45:09 ◼   ► bothered me in any capacity and I'm not the kind of person that says no [TS]

00:45:14 ◼   ► tumblelog over tumblr or [TS]

00:45:16 ◼   ► I might say photocopy I might say Xerox I might say tissue my might say kleenex [TS]

00:45:21 ◼   ► i know i never get mad and talk about any of those sorts of things are cast as [TS]

00:45:25 ◼   ► a lame where though I can see why people who broadcast like this it pigeon holes [TS]

00:45:29 ◼   ► you into like you make things that people listening to iPods or similar [TS]

00:45:33 ◼   ► devices and that is a narrow definition of what could possibly be the future of [TS]

00:45:38 ◼   ► broadcast the future of audio programming note I mean like that well [TS]

00:45:43 ◼   ► but for a while bloggers that kind of word you know for a while saying saying [TS]

00:45:48 ◼   ► that somebody else told you that you wrote for a blog that was an insult [TS]

00:45:54 ◼   ► about like blog has it as a useful definition podcast doesn't like blog if [TS]

00:45:59 ◼   ► you look up and something that tries to find a blog it's it's not going to its [TS]

00:46:03 ◼   ► not gonna ever called The New York Times blog because not like a personal single [TS]

00:46:07 ◼   ► voice publication time separated you know your stream of time separated post [TS]

00:46:12 ◼   ► not divvied up into sections through multiple authors over like a blog has is [TS]

00:46:16 ◼   ► distinct from you know just a website they're riding on the web [TS]

00:46:20 ◼   ► whereas podcast is all-encompassing if you make an audio program that's not [TS]

00:46:24 ◼   ► broadcast over analog radio but distributed through the internet instead [TS]

00:46:27 ◼   ► of a podcast and I think that's that's why people don't like it [TS]

00:46:32 ◼   ► CI I think I think podcasters don't like it I know people like us about how guest [TS]

00:46:38 ◼   ► podcasters don't like it because of the the the pretty bad connotation and has [TS]

00:46:44 ◼   ► of being low quality is everyone's her bad podcast before recorded by like you [TS]

00:46:49 ◼   ► know some people talking about their their built-in laptop mics for three [TS]

00:46:53 ◼   ► hours about nothing I guess the time that far from over telling you called [TS]

00:47:00 ◼   ► you think that's why we should get someone on here who objected to it is [TS]

00:47:04 ◼   ► like putting broadcaster by trade like you know whatever but like I mean now [TS]

00:47:10 ◼   ► well but like is it because of low quality because radio has terrible low [TS]

00:47:16 ◼   ► quality stuff like the guy was on at 2 a.m. for the college kids who are [TS]

00:47:19 ◼   ► broadcasting their students station like radio is filled with terrible [TS]

00:47:23 ◼   ► programming if you don't believe me I guess I just wake up in the night turn [TS]

00:47:26 ◼   ► on the radio there'll be something bring brought [TS]

00:47:29 ◼   ► many frequencies and it will not be high quality content but but it radio as he [TS]

00:47:34 ◼   ► gets slammed for that like oh that's okay it's you know it's an amateur who [TS]

00:47:37 ◼   ► granted because the airwaves are belong to all of us and are controlled by the [TS]

00:47:41 ◼   ► government and they did you out of love you still have student radio stations [TS]

00:47:44 ◼   ► barriers on the internet even more wide open and maybe maybe the total volume is [TS]

00:47:49 ◼   ► higher therefore the percentage of crap is higher as well but I really think [TS]

00:47:53 ◼   ► it's because it seems like it's as if every single website we had to be called [TS]

00:47:57 ◼   ► the blog and the New York Times didn't want to be on the web because they knew [TS]

00:48:00 ◼   ► they were not a blog but by putting something up to come to the New York [TS]

00:48:04 ◼   ► Times blog and I was like no it's it's you know it's getting written word [TS]

00:48:09 ◼   ► online we're not a blog like and even a podcast doesn't have the same [TS]

00:48:13 ◼   ► connotations it does it doesn't lessen that like you wouldn't think that if [TS]

00:48:18 ◼   ► you're if you'd fancy yourself as the audio equivalent of the new york times [TS]

00:48:21 ◼   ► you don't want someone calling you a podcast that's my impression but see [TS]

00:48:25 ◼   ► Casey I just I feel like somebody linked on Twitter today to some blog post [TS]

00:48:34 ◼   ► actually where somebody said that nerds ruin everything and I didn't even read [TS]

00:48:39 ◼   ► it because I could tell I feel like I could tell the gist of it within the [TS]

00:48:42 ◼   ► first couple census which was basically like people who are really passionate [TS]

00:48:45 ◼   ► about things and up over analyzing and ruining them entirely and I kinda feel [TS]

00:48:50 ◼   ► like that's what the word exactly when it comes to our podcast I just I don't [TS]

00:48:56 ◼   ► see why it's that offensive and i guess im not saying I'm right I'm not saying [TS]

00:49:00 ◼   ► you're wrong I just don't see what's so bothersome it's just a word to describe [TS]

00:49:04 ◼   ► something and candidly I have never really associated that term specifically [TS]

00:49:09 ◼   ► with iPods maybe that makes me hotter different or weird but i dont Associated [TS]

00:49:13 ◼   ► specifically with iPods just like one of you guys said I just associated with a [TS]

00:49:17 ◼   ► internet-based radio broadcast what happens to any word used anywhere and it [TS]

00:49:21 ◼   ► just becomes becomes the thing it is right but these people have objections [TS]

00:49:25 ◼   ► their objections we're in the early stages are not there now i make us [TS]

00:49:28 ◼   ► they're still doing it [TS]

00:49:29 ◼   ► still still going with NetCast now because that's just what they do with it [TS]

00:49:32 ◼   ► becomes it's almost like you know the Netcare slogan from leo has almost [TS]

00:49:36 ◼   ► become like a signature brand of his networks as far as I know he's the only [TS]

00:49:40 ◼   ► one using it right [TS]

00:49:41 ◼   ► yeah I think anybody else said we're doing an outcast they would think like [TS]

00:49:44 ◼   ► defense think he was ripping off Lee genesis of that was in the beginning to [TS]

00:49:50 ◼   ► like I don't want to be thought of as justice thing that people put on iPods [TS]

00:49:55 ◼   ► because the things that they claim that term know what I'm doing I am I want to [TS]

00:50:00 ◼   ► be a broadcaster and I want to have it and then a certain point just continues [TS]

00:50:04 ◼   ► but if you if you tell apart from the the world before podcast to now and he [TS]

00:50:11 ◼   ► want to start when I think he'll be less reticent to call what he does a podcast [TS]

00:50:16 ◼   ► I don't know maybe I'm kind of case honestly I think the word is a stupid [TS]

00:50:23 ◼   ► sounding word no question but I cast have two main problems and the 101 [TS]

00:50:31 ◼   ► problem as dan said in his interview on something else I can do it I forgot the [TS]

00:50:37 ◼   ► name of a dance that earlier this week how you know that one of the biggest [TS]

00:50:41 ◼   ► problem with podcasts is the the barriers involved in getting to them [TS]

00:50:47 ◼   ► like if you want to if someone has never listened to a podcast before and wants [TS]

00:50:51 ◼   ► to and hears about them want to get into them then they have to like first of all [TS]

00:50:56 ◼   ► someone to tell them that there was no one knows about them in the rest of the [TS]

00:50:59 ◼   ► world nobody knows what the crap podcast is and for the most part it's it's [TS]

00:51:05 ◼   ► pretty much out of the mainstream vocabulary and we have to find an apt [TS]

00:51:12 ◼   ► yet you have to have a smartphone for the most part or listen on your computer [TS]

00:51:15 ◼   ► which sucks if you have a smartphone have to find an app to download or two [TS]

00:51:19 ◼   ► to play podcast have to find the podcast within that app and you have to make [TS]

00:51:23 ◼   ► time to play and have to like here it somehow you put that audio somewhere [TS]

00:51:27 ◼   ► maybe you're listening to headphones but if you drive your car they need to look [TS]

00:51:31 ◼   ► at a Bluetooth connection on oxygen cable or something like that there's [TS]

00:51:34 ◼   ► technically accessing podcasts is [TS]

00:51:38 ◼   ► is has a lot of barriers to entry right now that's one problem and in the [TS]

00:51:43 ◼   ► everything everything is relative to the second problem [TS]

00:51:45 ◼   ► the reason podcasts are as popular as they are now is because the iPod lower [TS]

00:51:51 ◼   ► the barrier to entry below some critical threshold beyond which became possible [TS]

00:51:54 ◼   ► to be a thing that's true because before that it was like forget it and nobody is [TS]

00:51:59 ◼   ► gonna pull this off and the iPod in general made it possible for people to [TS]

00:52:03 ◼   ► take audio from the internet and put in a context where they're actually want to [TS]

00:52:07 ◼   ► listen to it so that was like the first hurdle and dance dissatisfaction with [TS]

00:52:12 ◼   ► the current ones like oh that's great and all it made podcast possible to be a [TS]

00:52:15 ◼   ► thing that normal people can enjoy but there's this next barrier of like if [TS]

00:52:19 ◼   ► you're interested in a television show you could you're much more likely to [TS]

00:52:22 ◼   ► have his coalition watching and tell your relative the name of that show with [TS]

00:52:27 ◼   ► an expectation that they will successfully and maybe it maybe a [TS]

00:52:30 ◼   ► network they will successfully be able to watch that show with no further help [TS]

00:52:33 ◼   ► from you right whereas if you tell him the name of podcasting never listen to [TS]

00:52:36 ◼   ► podcast they're not gonna make it [TS]

00:52:40 ◼   ► yeah yeah it's true I so would like something we are making progress there [TS]

00:52:44 ◼   ► but they're still like the next leap the next leap we can see what it should not [TS]

00:52:49 ◼   ► be it's it's great that it's possible for people to do it on XScale but we [TS]

00:52:53 ◼   ► want to go at 10 under times easier that's right still so to get there that [TS]

00:52:58 ◼   ► gets you know my second problem the second big problem podcasts is this [TS]

00:53:01 ◼   ► contest that their low quality but I think that's you know that's something [TS]

00:53:05 ◼   ► that bloggers had to wait out the internet had to wait out like that [TS]

00:53:10 ◼   ► that's something that every media has when its new that although the [TS]

00:53:13 ◼   ► mainstream of the established and established media of the previous types [TS]

00:53:17 ◼   ► all assume or say or you know outright outright defamed the new thing as as [TS]

00:53:23 ◼   ► being you know only for amateurs are inferior and mostly because a lot of [TS]

00:53:28 ◼   ► times the beginning they are a tell people how to do them well so I think I [TS]

00:53:36 ◼   ► think the word podcast is fine if we if we could pick a new one that'd be great [TS]

00:53:41 ◼   ► but we can't it's too late and I think people like Leo hussein NetCast or or [TS]

00:53:46 ◼   ► who make their own alternatives I think they're doing a disservice to the pod [TS]

00:53:50 ◼   ► testing world [TS]

00:53:51 ◼   ► by fragmenting this term because they even like no dance intensive internet [TS]

00:53:56 ◼   ► broadcast or something like that or or even internet radio internet radio shows [TS]

00:54:01 ◼   ► and I think the problem is that she me radio exists and that's something else [TS]

00:54:04 ◼   ► you know like like streaming radio shock jock a stations and stuff like that or [TS]

00:54:10 ◼   ► even radio like services like Pandora Spotify and Rdio I think those distort [TS]

00:54:16 ◼   ► the meaning of [TS]

00:54:17 ◼   ► if you tell somebody oh I usually get into internet radio shows you know they [TS]

00:54:21 ◼   ► might think of those things instead of podcast podcast has a very specific [TS]

00:54:25 ◼   ► meaning that is a very large category that is very distinct from those other [TS]

00:54:30 ◼   ► things and can't really easily be confused with them in the vocabulary so [TS]

00:54:35 ◼   ► I think I think we we have this word I think we're stuck with this word and I [TS]

00:54:40 ◼   ► think it's not that you know people would call them amateurish no matter [TS]

00:54:43 ◼   ► what you call them because their new still and and I think it's only a matter [TS]

00:54:49 ◼   ► of time just like what happened blogs it's only a matter of time before that [TS]

00:54:54 ◼   ► just becomes a normal word for people and they know what youre talking about [TS]

00:54:57 ◼   ► and it doesn't always have that negative connotation and it's happening more [TS]

00:55:01 ◼   ► slowly with podcasts because the podcasting medium as a whole is not [TS]

00:55:06 ◼   ► growing explosively as blogs did but it is growing more slowly and it still is [TS]

00:55:11 ◼   ► growing it still is seeping into the world and seeping into the mainstream [TS]

00:55:14 ◼   ► it's just you know it's not it's not exploding in the course of two years but [TS]

00:55:20 ◼   ► I think we just have to wait it out I think the Internet broadcasting thing [TS]

00:55:25 ◼   ► and those are the terms their stats still beats trying to corner on new word [TS]

00:55:29 ◼   ► like an outcast do like like that even though it may be confusing trying to [TS]

00:55:34 ◼   ► come up with the generic term for what you do that doesn't pigeonhole you under [TS]

00:55:37 ◼   ► podcast still beats trying to come up with things like that cast or internet [TS]

00:55:42 ◼   ► last Thursday making up some other where'd you know that's why I like [TS]

00:55:47 ◼   ► branding for Twitter because it's like oh well this is a new word that's made [TS]

00:55:50 ◼   ► up as for like the the popularity thing like the celebrities have arrived on [TS]

00:55:54 ◼   ► podcast like celebrities have podcast now so that that phase of the [TS]

00:55:59 ◼   ► has begun at least you know what the professionals are here but the thing is [TS]

00:56:03 ◼   ► in general they're not it's weird that they're not the radio professionals you [TS]

00:56:08 ◼   ► know I mean it's not like howard stern abandoned his radio show to help I'd [TS]

00:56:11 ◼   ► cast his own satellite radio right now so that might appear to be able see well [TS]

00:56:18 ◼   ► I'm like the people who showed up at like stand-up comedians television stars [TS]

00:56:22 ◼   ► people who are not trained as audio broadcasters but they're famous people [TS]

00:56:26 ◼   ► they so then you have you can get a podcast where famous person interviews [TS]

00:56:29 ◼   ► another famous person with that name recognition stuff but the thing I worry [TS]

00:56:32 ◼   ► about pot guesses the way we all listen to them hinges on these few [TS]

00:56:38 ◼   ► the mechanism by which they come to be like we get them under iPods or iPhones [TS]

00:56:44 ◼   ► and that relies on software created by our phone maker and you know like how [TS]

00:56:49 ◼   ► much of the podcast right now is entirely dependent on the fact that I to [TS]

00:56:52 ◼   ► that podcast on iTunes like say the next version iTunes come down [TS]

00:56:56 ◼   ► podcast are no longer there . they're gone then there would be this mad dash [TS]

00:57:00 ◼   ► to Google Reader thing to re-establish that infrastructure somewhere and we [TS]

00:57:04 ◼   ► just don't have already gone from from the app on iOS well you know me like you [TS]

00:57:10 ◼   ► can't you wouldn't be able to go into someplace like on your phone or on your [TS]

00:57:14 ◼   ► on your Mac or Windows PC are invariably any device you can go somewhere and [TS]

00:57:18 ◼   ► search based on the name of podcast even find the right search box you can type [TS]

00:57:22 ◼   ► in one of those facilities in a way like they were in the iTunes Store in there [TS]

00:57:26 ◼   ► was no iTunes directory for the media you had to find like a TPI them to find [TS]

00:57:30 ◼   ► this podcast and like get something that can read the field and had to use a [TS]

00:57:33 ◼   ► third-party feed reader and stuff like having that centralized clearinghouse [TS]

00:57:37 ◼   ► we rely on that so much because this infrastructure hasn't been built out and [TS]

00:57:41 ◼   ► like you said like all right fine what about when you gonna go in your car when [TS]

00:57:44 ◼   ► I have another seven infrastructure barriers to overcome of how do I get [TS]

00:57:47 ◼   ► this audio [TS]

00:57:48 ◼   ► got on my ipod on my phone but now listen to in my car by Carter says the [TS]

00:57:52 ◼   ► radio how to overcome that and it's it's a series of annoying barriers that are [TS]

00:57:57 ◼   ► preventing it when you really want to just be like someone mentions the name [TS]

00:58:01 ◼   ► of broadcast you know exactly when I type that name [TS]

00:58:04 ◼   ► you type in and then anywhere you are you gonna potential listen to audio you [TS]

00:58:07 ◼   ► can listen to that [TS]

00:58:08 ◼   ► thing and we are we are far from that yeah that's true I will give you that [TS]

00:58:12 ◼   ► but I think I think the key to all this is a smartphone I really do i mean i i [TS]

00:58:17 ◼   ► devote a lot of the last episode talking about this topic in particularly I think [TS]

00:58:21 ◼   ► that I think the smartphone is the default device to listen to things on [TS]

00:58:27 ◼   ► you know it used to be a part of your pocket they may be at work you do the [TS]

00:58:32 ◼   ► computer or you know at home may be used as some kind of steroid use disk or [TS]

00:58:35 ◼   ► something crazy like that but you know i i think it's very clear now that the [TS]

00:58:41 ◼   ► smartphone is the new media player and not just for portable anymore and I i [TS]

00:58:48 ◼   ► think it's going we're going to keep going in that direction where the [TS]

00:58:50 ◼   ► smartphone is going to continue to be the center of everything including by [TS]

00:58:54 ◼   ► the way including the the way that your car [TS]

00:58:58 ◼   ► not only integrated media but the layer car connects to the internet I really do [TS]

00:59:02 ◼   ► think that's gonna go through smartphone data plan that the phone is going to be [TS]

00:59:06 ◼   ► your your terminal and your modem and your media player to the world and and [TS]

00:59:12 ◼   ► everything will be just like Steve Jobs digital hub thing back you know fifteen [TS]

00:59:16 ◼   ► years ago whenever that was but now it's your phone and not your computer I tend [TS]

00:59:22 ◼   ► to think your right hand something you said a little earlier [TS]

00:59:25 ◼   ► implied a little earlier made me think and I'm gonna put your what you said and [TS]

00:59:28 ◼   ► put words in your mouth and I'm not going to stop talking so you can argue [TS]

00:59:31 ◼   ► with you had said or implied that that podcasting isn't really new anymore and [TS]

00:59:38 ◼   ► and obviously that this is a much more nuanced conversation that then I'm [TS]

00:59:42 ◼   ► giving the chance to respond to but I found that interesting because I've [TS]

00:59:45 ◼   ► actually had friends of mine after the call went to the fact that that I'm [TS]

00:59:49 ◼   ► podcasting now they they've said to me hey what does it take to do that cuz I [TS]

00:59:55 ◼   ► had no idea for podcast and I wanna do that what did you do and of course I've [TS]

00:59:59 ◼   ► said well marketed all the work not just sit here show up and act like a prima [TS]

01:00:02 ◼   ► donna but but all kidding aside that I've had people come out of the woodwork [TS]

01:00:06 ◼   ► inside my head really love to do my own podcast when I'm driving it is it's not [TS]

01:00:10 ◼   ► new in the sense that this is this thing is a medium has been going on for a long [TS]

01:00:14 ◼   ► time but I think it's kind of new in the sense that he poor start regular people [TS]

01:00:20 ◼   ► are starting to grasp this and are starting to wonder hey can I get a piece [TS]

01:00:23 ◼   ► of that pie and I don't mean financially just attention wise can I get a piece of [TS]

01:00:27 ◼   ► that pie and so I almost wonder for about to see a renaissance but but but a [TS]

01:00:33 ◼   ► newfound interest in podcasting we're in the same way everyone ended up with a [TS]

01:00:38 ◼   ► blog and now everyone has a Twitter account I don't literally mean everyone [TS]

01:00:43 ◼   ► but I wonder if a lot of what we would call regular people will end up having [TS]

01:00:48 ◼   ► podcasts and so all be talking to space nobody will be listening kind of [TS]

01:00:52 ◼   ► connected with blog infrastructure because I like like Squarespace right so [TS]

01:00:56 ◼   ► if someone ask that if someone asked me how I wanna have a podcast what i would [TS]

01:00:59 ◼   ► tell them at this point based only on my second hand knowledge of market doing [TS]

01:01:02 ◼   ► just like it seems like if you just get express pay site is pretty easy to get a [TS]

01:01:06 ◼   ► podcast up and running right and that's like the same thing with back when we [TS]

01:01:10 ◼   ► were blocking its like how I get a blog of you don't tell someone ok step one [TS]

01:01:14 ◼   ► get a shared hosting plans step to you want to tell them to go to edit edit [TS]

01:01:19 ◼   ► this page dot com over the old frontier thing like the one of the first sites [TS]

01:01:23 ◼   ► that you could you just go to the web page just edited right and across the [TS]

01:01:26 ◼   ► way it is now it was a gigantic explosion in the nahr-e consolidation of [TS]

01:01:30 ◼   ► all these web applications you tell anyone use go to Tumblr type in the [TS]

01:01:34 ◼   ► hostname you on any user name you want a password and click a button great your [TS]

01:01:39 ◼   ► blogging good good job by the equivalent of that for podcasting is more or less [TS]

01:01:43 ◼   ► here it seems like with pot with like this where space type thing but we [TS]

01:01:46 ◼   ► haven't seen a proliferation and Marco you set up with was basically that easy [TS]

01:01:50 ◼   ► you just go out there and have a podcast and any ideas where space has been a [TS]

01:01:58 ◼   ► sponsor the show for a long time and has future sponsorships and I we should [TS]

01:02:00 ◼   ► disclose that but yeah of course it's it's extremely easy there and they [TS]

01:02:04 ◼   ► aren't the people who make it easy I mean you can like I think word I don't [TS]

01:02:08 ◼   ► think wordpress.com which ones the one that host of our sites stock com I don't [TS]

01:02:14 ◼   ► think they offer this but there there's been a million podcast plugins for [TS]

01:02:19 ◼   ► WordPress over the years like you could you can pretty easily in lots of ways [TS]

01:02:23 ◼   ► where are we at the temblor phase of podcasting we're like if if if some [TS]

01:02:28 ◼   ► random person [TS]

01:02:29 ◼   ► block actually the reason the reason I would directly to tumblr is that would [TS]

01:02:32 ◼   ► say it's the easiest [TS]

01:02:34 ◼   ► that's basically as simple as it can possibly get like you type three things [TS]

01:02:38 ◼   ► and you are now and you're now blogger congratulation actually if I Easter a [TS]

01:02:42 ◼   ► long time ago [TS]

01:02:43 ◼   ► tumblr also supports podcast hosting if you host the files elsewhere I believe [TS]

01:02:48 ◼   ► if you anytime your site / podcast or maybe / podcast / RSS it will give you a [TS]

01:02:56 ◼   ► bit iTunes compatible podcast feed at any audio posts that are externally [TS]

01:03:02 ◼   ► hosted so try that anyway I built a long time ago never documented I don't think [TS]

01:03:08 ◼   ► but it probably it's probably still there but I think you know podcasting [TS]

01:03:15 ◼   ► inherently you know it's like like how truly easy people take good photos that [TS]

01:03:21 ◼   ► look kinda good but it's it's a lot harder to take good video I think [TS]

01:03:24 ◼   ► podcasting is kind of similar in that you know making a meeting in audio [TS]

01:03:29 ◼   ► production is inherently more work than blocking and it takes like to do it well [TS]

01:03:35 ◼   ► you need you to certain level of equipment you know you look good [TS]

01:03:39 ◼   ► microphone like there's there's there's a little bit more barrier just in in [TS]

01:03:43 ◼   ► realities of making this kind of media that that I don't I don't think we're [TS]

01:03:47 ◼   ► ever going to overcome some of those barriers certainly we're not going to [TS]

01:03:50 ◼   ► overcome the problem of of it being complex and an unusual to make a good [TS]

01:03:57 ◼   ► podcast is both good sounding and with with compelling content that's you know [TS]

01:04:01 ◼   ► that's always going to be every media is gonna have that challenge of equality [TS]

01:04:05 ◼   ► and an interesting this elephants but I don't think we're ever going to reach [TS]

01:04:10 ◼   ► the point of like Tumblr where you type in three things and you have a podcast I [TS]

01:04:14 ◼   ► don't think we're going to reach that I think we can get pretty close because [TS]

01:04:19 ◼   ► right now the main barriers to someone doing that would be you're not going to [TS]

01:04:22 ◼   ► have like a good microphone because computers don't come with but maybe the [TS]

01:04:25 ◼   ► the microphones your phone start getting better [TS]

01:04:28 ◼   ► like this is his voice recorder quality on your phone [TS]

01:04:33 ◼   ► good enough for wearing crazy headsets like Google foresees the most maybe that [TS]

01:04:38 ◼   ► would be sufficient likes of the audio quality thing might start taking care [TS]

01:04:41 ◼   ► itself the content problem but that's not funny in the block content problem [TS]

01:04:46 ◼   ► isn't solved a better blog just write you know what they feel like writing is [TS]

01:04:49 ◼   ► just like like Casey was the people who knows they're not looking to do anything [TS]

01:04:54 ◼   ► earth-shattering but they just feel like I can do that in my 10 friends could [TS]

01:04:58 ◼   ► listen to it I can write a blog I can have a tumblr blog and my ten friends [TS]

01:05:03 ◼   ► and my mom can look at it and that's enough for me and the podcast equivalent [TS]

01:05:07 ◼   ► to that and the barrier that is like your friends and your mom are not going [TS]

01:05:10 ◼   ► to go through the effort to figure out how to get your stupid podcast on to [TS]

01:05:12 ◼   ► their phone or ipod disastrous too much they'll visit here [TS]

01:05:16 ◼   ► tumblr page and look at the music thing you put in there are just look at your [TS]

01:05:19 ◼   ► last thing you posted to Facebook or whatever but podcaster still little bit [TS]

01:05:23 ◼   ► too much of a berry like they really want two guys podcast like it so much [TS]

01:05:27 ◼   ► easier to look at their blog postings it takes more time for the things you gotta [TS]

01:05:30 ◼   ► set it up and you know you have a subscription and automatically [TS]

01:05:33 ◼   ► downloading and how this podcast app for whatever let's talk about what did the [TS]

01:05:37 ◼   ► various branches were quite there yet and the other woman just might best be [TS]

01:05:42 ◼   ► inherited you can read too much faster than you can listen and people can talk [TS]

01:05:46 ◼   ► much more than making right that's yeah that's true then it's always gonna be a [TS]

01:05:49 ◼   ► problem with with audio and video the fix timescale media is that they're much [TS]

01:05:55 ◼   ► harder to skin than text and and so there's always gonna be limitations [TS]

01:05:59 ◼   ► there and and and inefficient season and just restrictions on how much time [TS]

01:06:04 ◼   ► attention people are willing to give to any way before we go on now it's been so [TS]

01:06:11 ◼   ► long before we go on our second sponsor an orphan sponsorship zone is returning [TS]

01:06:18 ◼   ► sponsor once again welcome back however as a sponsor however is a domain [TS]

01:06:22 ◼   ► registrar that doesn't suck and I mean that from the bottom of my heart I use [TS]

01:06:27 ◼   ► them myself they didn't tell me to say that I use them myself and I've used a [TS]

01:06:32 ◼   ► lot of domain registrars I've never found another one that I wanted to stick [TS]

01:06:37 ◼   ► with after after using and covers the monastic with they they really are great [TS]

01:06:43 ◼   ► I mean its first of all go to hover dot com slash ATP let them know that you [TS]

01:06:48 ◼   ► heard about this from here and go get I forgot I think it's 10 percent off if [TS]

01:06:54 ◼   ► you use that as your entry [TS]

01:06:55 ◼   ► point out that I don't have that in this script icon / ATP so basically they have [TS]

01:07:03 ◼   ► done at Taco dot com dot tv tons of different country club country code [TS]

01:07:07 ◼   ► top-level domains you can register with them they believe that everyone should [TS]

01:07:12 ◼   ► be able to take control of their online identity get your own domain and make it [TS]

01:07:16 ◼   ► really easy to do so and i've advocated for years don't use like a gmail address [TS]

01:07:23 ◼   ► as your email address [TS]

01:07:24 ◼   ► don't use Google+ site as as your identity on the Internet by your own [TS]

01:07:29 ◼   ► name and and do your own thing and make your identity they make it easier to do [TS]

01:07:32 ◼   ► exactly that and I mean just the fact their registry that doesn't suck that [TS]

01:07:36 ◼   ► should be enough reason right there you go try them out but occasionally more [TS]

01:07:40 ◼   ► reasons they have a very very clean well-designed control panel [TS]

01:07:43 ◼   ► it's very no lo has so low friction they even have this cool thing where they [TS]

01:07:50 ◼   ► will they have a call like a migration service isn't in my list but they have a [TS]

01:07:58 ◼   ► thing where if you're willing to give them your login information for your old [TS]

01:08:04 ◼   ► registrar they will go in there and migrate all your domain names to their [TS]

01:08:08 ◼   ► service for you to transfer domains can be a bit of a hassle they will do it to [TS]

01:08:14 ◼   ► mean value service it's really really cool I really do recommend them very [TS]

01:08:20 ◼   ► very much and I i can give you a whole list of what they told me to say here [TS]

01:08:23 ◼   ► but but they they really enjoyed the last time I just told you how I feel [TS]

01:08:27 ◼   ► about them and I'm doing that now because they're really hard is that good [TS]

01:08:31 ◼   ► domain registrar it's it's very very hard to find a good one and then they [TS]

01:08:36 ◼   ► really are fantastic so thank you very much to hover dot com dot com slash ATP [TS]

01:08:42 ◼   ► and is run by the way by the two cows people they've been in business since [TS]

01:08:46 ◼   ► the 1800's doing all sorts of kinky things so you know you can trust these [TS]

01:08:50 ◼   ► people they they really know what they're doing they've been around [TS]

01:08:53 ◼   ► forever they have everything rests on the reputation he built over the bill [TS]

01:08:57 ◼   ► for years so you know their their their customer service is fantastic they pick [TS]

01:09:01 ◼   ► up the phone I mean if you can imagine that you call somebody to pick up the [TS]

01:09:04 ◼   ► phone they actually do it [TS]

01:09:07 ◼   ► 30 with them so ya gonna have a DICOM email forwards DNS all sorts of fun [TS]

01:09:14 ◼   ► stuff check them out [TS]

01:09:17 ◼   ► com slash ATP and thank you very much for supporting the show [TS]

01:09:22 ◼   ► yes so to add to that just a couple days ago my father was looking to register [TS]

01:09:25 ◼   ► domain and he's very technically savvy for someone who doesn't do this sort of [TS]

01:09:29 ◼   ► thing for a living but he doesn't know the ins and outs of denouncing those [TS]

01:09:33 ◼   ► sorts of things like that just go to however I have no time to deal with this [TS]

01:09:36 ◼   ► right now see if you can figure it out and if not let me know and like 20 [TS]

01:09:39 ◼   ► minutes later he said oh I've got my domain it's all in how it worked great [TS]

01:09:43 ◼   ► don't even bother calling you back I'm all good so it's really they're really [TS]

01:09:47 ◼   ► good so give me a shot [TS]

01:09:49 ◼   ► yeah definitely alright so moving on so I'd now I do still on top of this [TS]

01:09:56 ◼   ► article thirty minutes to sink what he basically says he he suggests a solution [TS]

01:10:05 ◼   ► that you know I cloud in its current form for developers as we talked about [TS]

01:10:08 ◼   ► before on this show and as many people talked about recently iCloud for [TS]

01:10:13 ◼   ► developers has been really a mixed bag [TS]

01:10:16 ◼   ► mostly bad and any kind of a database sync or any kind of complex sink for [TS]

01:10:23 ◼   ► apps with iCloud has been just tons and tons of problems from simply being not [TS]

01:10:29 ◼   ► functional to causing very difficult support problems too weird bugs and the [TS]

01:10:35 ◼   ► biggest thing being a total lack of control over what's going on because you [TS]

01:10:38 ◼   ► don't control iCloud as a developer and so will print suggest here is that Apple [TS]

01:10:46 ◼   ► should make rather than doing like that the current quote magic set up where you [TS]

01:10:52 ◼   ► basically say right here is my court date a database sync it and hope nothing [TS]

01:10:56 ◼   ► goes wrong which doesn't actually work in practice rather than doing that Brent [TS]

01:11:00 ◼   ► says Apple should have basically a kind of thing where you can define some [TS]

01:11:05 ◼   ► service i'd logic for them to execute on your behalf and the Akan talk to that [TS]

01:11:13 ◼   ► logic and it handles and most importantly and people can log into it [TS]

01:11:18 ◼   ► or you can log into it you can log into people's accounts from from your apt [TS]

01:11:21 ◼   ► manager and data stuff like that and they also would support things he said [TS]

01:11:28 ◼   ► support periodic tasks like pulling Twitter or RSS feed yourself like that [TS]

01:11:32 ◼   ► so and he also points out which we should point out also this is all very [TS]

01:11:37 ◼   ► very similar to a few systems already exist out there there seems like Heroku [TS]

01:11:44 ◼   ► which is kind of like a generic [TS]

01:11:46 ◼   ► hosting platform that is based on scalability automatically and stuff like [TS]

01:11:50 ◼   ► that is also Windows Azure mobile services which we should disclose the [TS]

01:11:54 ◼   ► sheet or sponsor of the show and brent has actually done promotional videos for [TS]

01:11:58 ◼   ► them and they do almost exactly what he's asking for it without the iCloud [TS]

01:12:02 ◼   ► authentication and integration but I think what what do you think of this [TS]

01:12:08 ◼   ► of of this proposal do you think it's realistic that first of all I think I [TS]

01:12:12 ◼   ► never will do it but you do you think this would be a good thing if they did [TS]

01:12:17 ◼   ► it I think Apple is two degrees removed from being able to pass anything like [TS]

01:12:22 ◼   ► this [TS]

01:12:23 ◼   ► like if you think of the companies that do do it like Google and Amazon the [TS]

01:12:27 ◼   ► first stage of getting to the point where you were even able to do this is [TS]

01:12:31 ◼   ► the company recognizes that one of the things they need to be really good at [TS]

01:12:36 ◼   ► his company is doing you know services in-house and that they can't do each one [TS]

01:12:42 ◼   ► as it kind of custom one off special snowflake what they need our [TS]

01:12:47 ◼   ► infrastructure tools to do that so the reason the Amazon buildup is [TS]

01:12:53 ◼   ► infrastructures we have to run amazon.com and it's actually pretty [TS]

01:12:56 ◼   ► popular website and we have scaling problems and we have these these [TS]

01:12:59 ◼   ► problems that are here so let's build ourselves tools to do that once you do [TS]

01:13:03 ◼   ► that you're like ok well we've built these tools internally that they're not [TS]

01:13:06 ◼   ► great but it's like it lets us and let us build amazon.com or let us build to [TS]

01:13:12 ◼   ► Google's stuff if we change this just a little bit and shape it up we can sell [TS]

01:13:18 ◼   ► this as you know ec2 or as Google AppEngine or whatever that's the second [TS]

01:13:24 ◼   ► part and once you want you know Apple doesn't even have that first part yeah I [TS]

01:13:27 ◼   ► think they're not yet able to [TS]

01:13:29 ◼   ► to they haven't yet recognized that internal infrastructure tools are [TS]

01:13:33 ◼   ► important enough to the company that they need to be is just as important as [TS]

01:13:36 ◼   ► like you know iOS or hardware design or silicon chips or whatever may be the [TS]

01:13:41 ◼   ► doing internally maybe they haven't figured out but that's that's what i [TS]

01:13:44 ◼   ► think is the main buried them doing this is they have nothing defend because as [TS]

01:13:47 ◼   ► anyone who'd write services offer knows you can't just say oh you guys write [TS]

01:13:52 ◼   ► some code will run on our service cause the first dude put in an infinite loop [TS]

01:13:56 ◼   ► goes I guess we need some way to handle that oh I guess when you do a resource [TS]

01:14:00 ◼   ► usage all we're gonna run your periodic job but I guess I mean it like all the [TS]

01:14:04 ◼   ► things that you deal with that you have to understand infrastructure for running [TS]

01:14:07 ◼   ► arbitrary jobs in a controlled environment where you limit their CPU [TS]

01:14:10 ◼   ► but have error handling so you can let someone know why they think didn't [TS]

01:14:14 ◼   ► complete it was using too much of this and like i mean shared hosting providers [TS]

01:14:18 ◼   ► have to do crap like that where they're just trying to divvy up their resources [TS]

01:14:21 ◼   ► Apple is so not equipped to do that they're not even equipped to run their [TS]

01:14:24 ◼   ► own things in a matter of fact their farming a lot of it out to run you know [TS]

01:14:28 ◼   ► the Windows Azure stuff which is great that Microsoft good at that but the fact [TS]

01:14:31 ◼   ► that Apple isn't I would not hold my breath or anything that Apple is going [TS]

01:14:36 ◼   ► to provide for you give them code and they run on their service for you I [TS]

01:14:41 ◼   ► would agree with all of that and and somebody in the chat rooms probably [TS]

01:14:45 ◼   ► laughing at me saying that cuz I get a lot of grief for saying that but i i [TS]

01:14:48 ◼   ► agree with all that with whom do you agree but both these guys really that I [TS]

01:14:54 ◼   ► think would be awesome I don't think I will ever do it I don't think apples to [TS]

01:14:56 ◼   ► apples capable of doing it right now but one thing I will say is that I wish wish [TS]

01:15:03 ◼   ► that we had this is gonna sound so obvious but bear with me I wish we had a [TS]

01:15:07 ◼   ► little more insight error not inside out we had a little more access to iCloud [TS]

01:15:12 ◼   ► authentication and iCloud in general especially but one of the things I've [TS]

01:15:18 ◼   ► been thinking about a lot in the spare time I don't have is to write a very [TS]

01:15:24 ◼   ► very very basic list not to do like a grocery list app and what I mean by that [TS]

01:15:29 ◼   ► is my wife and I we use wonder list right now too [TS]

01:15:34 ◼   ► organize our shopping lists 14 the grocery store 14 hardware stores it's [TS]

01:15:39 ◼   ► entertainment center and all the wonderful very good it's it's way more [TS]

01:15:44 ◼   ► heavy-handed then then I need I just need a list of things are either checked [TS]

01:15:48 ◼   ► off or not and it one of the things I can think about is writing my own but [TS]

01:15:53 ◼   ► the problem with that is I don't want to have to in the case of mobile services [TS]

01:15:56 ◼   ► my understanding is you can use Facebook to log in this does this sound familiar [TS]

01:16:00 ◼   ► facebook login use Twitter to login you can use Windows Live login and I think [TS]

01:16:04 ◼   ► there might be other options are you can roll your own I don't have the patience [TS]

01:16:08 ◼   ► to my own I get no excitement and no Jolly's over rolling my own [TS]

01:16:12 ◼   ► authentication login system I wish I could just use iCloud to handle that and [TS]

01:16:19 ◼   ► I know I can win on talking about doing things in their own little silo but i [TS]

01:16:25 ◼   ► dont to my knowledge there's no way for me to really sink between iCloud users [TS]

01:16:30 ◼   ► easily and so it's stuff like this [TS]

01:16:34 ◼   ► parents talking about that I think would make it really cool and maybe make it [TS]

01:16:37 ◼   ► possible for me to make this grocery list app for my wife and I to share that [TS]

01:16:41 ◼   ► uses iCloud is logging mechanism that I don't need to worry about the stuff I [TS]

01:16:46 ◼   ► don't care about and apples what's interesting to me is that Apple is [TS]

01:16:49 ◼   ► usually much usually very good at it [TS]

01:16:52 ◼   ► abstracting away the things that I don't wanna care about improperly extracting [TS]

01:16:57 ◼   ► them and in this case they've they've abstracted as many developers have said [TS]

01:17:01 ◼   ► they've extracted too much and they haven't given given us any any vision [TS]

01:17:05 ◼   ► into it and it's just this big black box we have no control over and it stinks [TS]

01:17:09 ◼   ► and I really wish that a lot of these things that separate talks about were [TS]

01:17:13 ◼   ► possible but I agree with John I don't think that there that Apple's in a [TS]

01:17:18 ◼   ► position that they're capable of delivering it and I grew the Marco I [TS]

01:17:21 ◼   ► don't know that they have any interest in it any way they could do the limited [TS]

01:17:25 ◼   ► version [TS]

01:17:26 ◼   ► of this which is they could you know like I just talked about earlier there's [TS]

01:17:30 ◼   ► no reason they can provide a web service to authenticate with your iCloud I do [TS]

01:17:33 ◼   ► like things that don't involve arbitrary developers giving up a code that Apple [TS]

01:17:39 ◼   ► run on their service on your behalf if they said leave ended the services [TS]

01:17:42 ◼   ► already available through the iCloud API's but did it through you know HTTP [TS]

01:17:46 ◼   ► endpoint and allowed it you know if you could write about this against the right [TS]

01:17:51 ◼   ► and the like which was basically apple.com you know it's taking advantage [TS]

01:17:56 ◼   ► of its own as I know has gone back in time but the iDisk website had a little [TS]

01:18:02 ◼   ► JavaScript implementation they would they would hit against you know regular [TS]

01:18:06 ◼   ► set of web service endpoint to do its work and I'm assuming I club stuff to [TS]

01:18:10 ◼   ► similar things and it's not just all talking to Apple servicemen talk to the [TS]

01:18:14 ◼   ► services behind the scenes but there's no reason they can't expose some or all [TS]

01:18:18 ◼   ► of the things that you currently can only do from an iOS app as a bunch of [TS]

01:18:23 ◼   ► Webb BPI's but Apple has never as I always say Apple doesn't understand the [TS]

01:18:27 ◼   ► web I mean that's kind of a harsh way to say it but you know Apple's [TS]

01:18:32 ◼   ► someone understand the web because they they want like the results of its [TS]

01:18:35 ◼   ► restricted iowa's they're not they're not Google they don't win when more [TS]

01:18:39 ◼   ► people here have applications are more people use the web they want people to [TS]

01:18:43 ◼   ► use iOS devices so there's not really a lot of incentive for them to say always [TS]

01:18:47 ◼   ► look and now if you use iCloud is your you know things where you store stuff [TS]

01:18:52 ◼   ► you can make your web app it to like why would they want you to go to your route [TS]

01:18:56 ◼   ► they think you should be using iOS application so there's no real advantage [TS]

01:18:59 ◼   ► into that but that's one of one of the many many other things to keep away from [TS]

01:19:04 ◼   ► my closets locking you win you can't have it without the use of that same [TS]

01:19:07 ◼   ► back and you can't have an Android app that uses this handbag and it certainly [TS]

01:19:10 ◼   ► happened to you have an Android app anything else but that's some to some [TS]

01:19:17 ◼   ► degree is that there's no motivation for Apple to do that but on the other side [TS]

01:19:20 ◼   ► they could put web service endpoints for a limited set of things and that would [TS]

01:19:27 ◼   ► make like make people less reticent to use it why would ever use you know I [TS]

01:19:31 ◼   ► call people using I was like a new signing [TS]

01:19:34 ◼   ► your phone is already setup with your Apple ID day it's great to not have that [TS]

01:19:37 ◼   ► sign in thing and it's perfect but if you if that's it that's the extent of [TS]

01:19:42 ◼   ► that relationship with this this authentication system that if I call but [TS]

01:19:46 ◼   ► I also want to have a website and so now you got to bend over backwards to do [TS]

01:19:49 ◼   ► something like Marco did Blackwell new standards works could you sign in with [TS]

01:19:52 ◼   ► your Apple ID and blah blah but they also have a website but I can't get [TS]

01:19:56 ◼   ► access to that idea so I gotta figure out some system than you know you know [TS]

01:19:59 ◼   ► before you know your email and attachments with data in them so I think [TS]

01:20:06 ◼   ► also there's there's a problem here [TS]

01:20:07 ◼   ► of I mean first of all you know I guess I can see why people in our in our [TS]

01:20:16 ◼   ► little world of Mac nerds so often talk about this problem but as a as a [TS]

01:20:21 ◼   ► developer of Web services and and again because I have a history of doing these [TS]

01:20:25 ◼   ► things myself and I've gotten pretty good recently you know maybe I'm biased [TS]

01:20:30 ◼   ► here or or my viewers is somehow disorder here but I would I don't I [TS]

01:20:37 ◼   ► don't see the big lineup of people wanting to build web services on Apple's [TS]

01:20:42 ◼   ► cloud infrastructure like that sound like as as a Web service builder I would [TS]

01:20:47 ◼   ► never want that because they've shown that they shun partly that they don't [TS]

01:20:52 ◼   ► really care that much about reliability necessarily or about improving it to the [TS]

01:20:57 ◼   ► point where their actions speak louder than words like you know if I'm sure the [TS]

01:21:02 ◼   ► people working on it are trying very hard to to make it work but it just [TS]

01:21:06 ◼   ► seems like other company it is a very high priority and you can see that in in [TS]

01:21:10 ◼   ► the relatively little progress it's made over the last few years it just doesn't [TS]

01:21:15 ◼   ► seem like it's it's like a number one priority for the company [TS]

01:21:18 ◼   ► the way the way getting out a new iPhone it's like s3 you feel like that's that's [TS]

01:21:24 ◼   ► neutral I guess tereza bucket to put crap it's that you can you understand [TS]

01:21:28 ◼   ► the business model behind it because you pay for usage and you're pretty sure [TS]

01:21:32 ◼   ► that Amazon well maybe less sure these days that that Amazon is not you're not [TS]

01:21:38 ◼   ► in competition with Amazon by making your [TS]

01:21:40 ◼   ► application your mobile application on your website that both yesterday right [TS]

01:21:44 ◼   ► but you know I think it got a problem with Apple stuff is that because it [TS]

01:21:49 ◼   ► doesn't seem like it's that high priority for the moment I'm it's gone [TS]

01:21:53 ◼   ► through so much flux like if I would have built before the show if I would [TS]

01:21:58 ◼   ► have built Instapaper on Apple's web service of the time when I started it I [TS]

01:22:03 ◼   ► wouldn't building it on something called dot Mac which most people don't even [TS]

01:22:07 ◼   ► have never even heard of any of these days most people who use it probably [TS]

01:22:11 ◼   ► forgotten about it you know first it was dot Mac and the first it was you know [TS]

01:22:17 ◼   ► whatever it was like net tools or whatever that's right tools and there [TS]

01:22:23 ◼   ► was no surf internet blast something and they there is there is that in there was [TS]

01:22:28 ◼   ► dot Mac which had like some internet service based things and then MobileMe [TS]

01:22:34 ◼   ► which had more internet-based service things and then iCloud which has [TS]

01:22:38 ◼   ► actually fewer internet-based and there is like Apple's own system is in such [TS]

01:22:45 ◼   ► flux here I would never want to build on that infrastructure was going to ask you [TS]

01:22:52 ◼   ► if you think about that but if you read if you read conceptualize all those [TS]

01:22:56 ◼   ► things you just listed including iCloud the current one [TS]

01:22:58 ◼   ► not as a as infrastructure which clearly Apple doesn't think of them as not but [TS]

01:23:04 ◼   ► but nearly as ways to make it easier for you develop to develop feature full [TS]

01:23:11 ◼   ► applications for their platforms so you know if you look at it that way [TS]

01:23:16 ◼   ► MobileMe . max Inc and all that stuff was a way for you to write a Mac [TS]

01:23:19 ◼   ► application for you so that you didn't have to write things tough game center [TS]

01:23:23 ◼   ► so you can write a game so you don't have to do the matchmaking you don't [TS]

01:23:26 ◼   ► have to do the server-based boring stuff like this maybe you just write iOS apps [TS]

01:23:30 ◼   ► maybe you just right back out maybe you don't know or don't care don't want to [TS]

01:23:33 ◼   ► do the server side stuff so they're trying to make it so hey you wanna you [TS]

01:23:37 ◼   ► wanna write a game but you don't want to maintain servers right against Game [TS]

01:23:42 ◼   ► Center you want to write a Mac application but you don't know anything [TS]

01:23:44 ◼   ► about syncing well we have a frame or so many frameworks you know that frameworks [TS]

01:23:47 ◼   ► do the work for you so that all you need to know about it [TS]

01:23:50 ◼   ► you know dentistry for your dentist appt a little bit of cocoa to do the URL but [TS]

01:23:54 ◼   ► you don't even know about OpenGL to make but we shall animated stuff you know I [TS]

01:23:59 ◼   ► was going to get core animation does that for you that if you look at our [TS]

01:24:03 ◼   ► cloud in that respect it's like well hey why the heck would it work outside of [TS]

01:24:07 ◼   ► the whole point of it is just so that you can make a cool I was out there are [TS]

01:24:10 ◼   ► lots of interesting features without having to write the server stuff and I [TS]

01:24:14 ◼   ► don't have a baby or maybe had to be in a lost it but like if you look at it [TS]

01:24:20 ◼   ► that way it looks less insane but I don't like first of all it doesn't work [TS]

01:24:27 ◼   ► well in whatever then you know as we talked about the length of the show's [TS]

01:24:30 ◼   ► done even even in that respect doesn't work so I got his value even if you [TS]

01:24:34 ◼   ► narrow it just to that focus but you know the reason we're talking about [TS]

01:24:39 ◼   ► broadening it out to say having web services and stuff like that is you know [TS]

01:24:43 ◼   ► we wanted to be an infrastructure component because lots of people around [TS]

01:24:46 ◼   ► applications don't just want it to be easier to make a cool iOS application [TS]

01:24:50 ◼   ► they wanted to be easier for them to run a business or something so S three [TS]

01:24:56 ◼   ► provides that because I don't want to deal with storage but if I passed reform [TS]

01:24:59 ◼   ► I usage I get storage and that solves a storage problems for my business product [TS]

01:25:04 ◼   ► provided like people buy my products have some of their revenue stream that I [TS]

01:25:07 ◼   ► can put towards that whereas the iCloud things like what I cannot solve my [TS]

01:25:12 ◼   ► problem how to ride the iOS app but ok now wanna go to ride the Android app I [TS]

01:25:15 ◼   ► have to do something different and Alan are at the web app you know maybe Google [TS]

01:25:19 ◼   ► does it well you can enter it up and went up against the same infrastructure [TS]

01:25:21 ◼   ► and Alba like the odd man out of like oh I gotta use icon with that or maybe I [TS]

01:25:25 ◼   ► don't maybe I'll just like everybody else and just use whatever their [TS]

01:25:29 ◼   ► infrastructure thing isn't it again then Apple being fenced out of the [TS]

01:25:34 ◼   ► infrastructure business like Marco said whatever trust them for infrastructure [TS]

01:25:37 ◼   ► because it doesn't seem like that's what they're making their making this other [TS]

01:25:40 ◼   ► thing yeah but like I said earlier tonight as you just said I think apples [TS]

01:25:45 ◼   ► apples technologies are developed technologies are so good at distracting [TS]

01:25:48 ◼   ► way the things we don't care about a perfect example of what you brought up [TS]

01:25:51 ◼   ► with animation I mean I don't know crap about [TS]

01:25:54 ◼   ► anything related to an emissions or OpenGL anything like that but I can [TS]

01:25:59 ◼   ► animate the crud out of a UIView like the best to them because the [TS]

01:26:04 ◼   ► coordination API so simple and so robust and it's really disappointing that Apple [TS]

01:26:10 ◼   ► doesn't happen equivalent just like he said 44 what we call cloud computing and [TS]

01:26:15 ◼   ► and I don't think I would use it even if it was available tomorrow but man would [TS]

01:26:20 ◼   ► I be like say wEDC if they announce some sort of cloud computing platform I would [TS]

01:26:25 ◼   ► be really darn excited about it I surely wouldn't be the first to use it but I'd [TS]

01:26:29 ◼   ► be really excited about it I would stay very very far away from them laugh this [TS]

01:26:34 ◼   ► is also about commitment because like you know the fact that they have turned [TS]

01:26:38 ◼   ► over if you think of MobileMe and think it's like wow that was the thing we had [TS]

01:26:42 ◼   ► you know five years ago and you wrote and soldier application five years ago [TS]

01:26:47 ◼   ► when you made your money from some application and that time is over and [TS]

01:26:49 ◼   ► now we assume you're gonna write a new application and people like a bare-bones [TS]

01:26:53 ◼   ► with your gym with like black so we've still got the old application would [TS]

01:26:56 ◼   ► still like to keep selling because we kept updating an apple like you know [TS]

01:26:59 ◼   ► that time has passed we have a new thing now so either rewrite your application I [TS]

01:27:04 ◼   ► guess like to work with another solution whereas if you think of something is [TS]

01:27:11 ◼   ► infrastructure like if that at Amazon decided yesterday was our first attempt [TS]

01:27:15 ◼   ► at storage but we're gonna sunset history and we're gonna replace the best [TS]

01:27:19 ◼   ► for because that's one more right and is totally incompatible people will really [TS]

01:27:23 ◼   ► regret starting a project that relied on history as the back in like 10 Dropbox [TS]

01:27:28 ◼   ► you know couple of small companies may be impacted by this decision and once [TS]

01:27:33 ◼   ► you get that reputation like all they're not interested in building [TS]

01:27:36 ◼   ► infrastructure for long-term support and especially with things like web services [TS]

01:27:40 ◼   ► and stuff where you're not touching it with all of our network connections [TS]

01:27:43 ◼   ► really no reason ever to completely sunset that type of thing like you can [TS]

01:27:49 ◼   ► change how St works I'm sure has change behind the scenes change all the hard [TS]

01:27:53 ◼   ► way to install the software that runs that you just the present the same API [TS]

01:27:56 ◼   ► endpoints the network and then you're good to go but Apple like it's not [TS]

01:28:01 ◼   ► making every structure is no pretense of making structural change 17 times since [TS]

01:28:04 ◼   ► then so that's why everyone is so if Apple ever [TS]

01:28:08 ◼   ► to come out with something as they would have to explain say up front we [TS]

01:28:12 ◼   ► understand the difference between infrastructure and the thing that makes [TS]

01:28:15 ◼   ► it easier for you to write applications for three years and this is not that [TS]

01:28:19 ◼   ► other thing so trust us and then still they would have to earn that trust in [TS]

01:28:23 ◼   ► you know do a good job and so on and so forth but there's a big gap and also it [TS]

01:28:28 ◼   ► just seems like Apple wants to work in a higher conceptual level than that like [TS]

01:28:32 ◼   ► they they they don't want to expose the guts don't want to expose server-side [TS]

01:28:38 ◼   ► functionality they don't want to expose low-level API eyes or or give you the [TS]

01:28:43 ◼   ► level data accident that they they wanted to be the ubiquity I cloud API [TS]

01:28:48 ◼   ► that we expose like this and the apps and that's it and I think that's that's [TS]

01:28:54 ◼   ► much to their downfall really I mean there's there's a few cases the benefit [TS]

01:28:58 ◼   ► from that but there's so many that that don't [TS]

01:29:01 ◼   ► and as we've discussed in one of the earlier episodes of the show like I [TS]

01:29:05 ◼   ► think that the whole concept of that is flawed and the way they would have tried [TS]

01:29:10 ◼   ► to do like i cud is a simple thing just you know get this flag and call this [TS]

01:29:15 ◼   ► function and it works and you know it's not it's not that simple it doesn't just [TS]

01:29:20 ◼   ► work and those concepts I i think is flawed but I you know I don't see Apple [TS]

01:29:26 ◼   ► ever going lower down the stack and ever offering that kind of like deep [TS]

01:29:31 ◼   ► low-level access execution of arbitrary code in any language in with any [TS]

01:29:37 ◼   ► restrictions I don't see that happening you know i i any kind of like server [TS]

01:29:42 ◼   ► side stuff they would do would probably be in the form of things that you [TS]

01:29:48 ◼   ► initiate locally in the apps that you know maybe it may be a newsstand API [TS]

01:29:53 ◼   ► we're like you couldn't cue a background download with a certain push [TS]

01:29:58 ◼   ► notification or something like that it would it would be these restricted [TS]

01:30:02 ◼   ► cookie-cutter templates it wouldn't be like oh you can execute arbitrary logic [TS]

01:30:06 ◼   ► on the server and I just don't see that never got into the business value store [TS]

01:30:11 ◼   ► like we will keep saying hi club but we really must talk about the core data [TS]

01:30:14 ◼   ► value store is an example of like [TS]

01:30:17 ◼   ► limited simple functionality that does not dictate implementations just so [TS]

01:30:21 ◼   ► super limited like your preferences and stuff it's not rare like a star you [TS]

01:30:25 ◼   ► don't hear but but you can imagine like that you like is different in like soap [TS]

01:30:29 ◼   ► and WSDL all that two persons like rest you know you can imagine a really simple [TS]

01:30:34 ◼   ► HTTP API for key-value store right it's like it breaks itself it's it's so [TS]

01:30:39 ◼   ► simple because the API so simple and no one is good because no one is [TS]

01:30:44 ◼   ► complaining the key-value store shouldn't exist right brent is talking [TS]

01:30:47 ◼   ► about is not that kind of thing makes sense because they're just having [TS]

01:30:50 ◼   ► infrastructure so let me is the application developer worry about all [TS]

01:30:54 ◼   ► the details I just need a place that's not here I need a place to talk across [TS]

01:30:57 ◼   ► the network for me to put my stuff and to be able to get it back later I'll [TS]

01:31:01 ◼   ► take care of the other details like the bargaining stages I know you want to do [TS]

01:31:06 ◼   ► everything from making magic at work but that's not working for us so if you just [TS]

01:31:09 ◼   ► give me a place to put stuff and I can still use my client authentication which [TS]

01:31:12 ◼   ► is really great I'll take care of the rest of it and you know and then I have [TS]

01:31:17 ◼   ► a good application which it's stepping down to say I'm willing to do more work [TS]

01:31:21 ◼   ► to talk to your summer bucket if I can authenticate against that bucket using [TS]

01:31:25 ◼   ► iCloud ideas already setup please Apple is just let me do that alright with that [TS]

01:31:31 ◼   ► we should wrap up thank you very much to our two sponsors Mac Mini vault dot com [TS]

01:31:37 ◼   ► slash try you can go to locate your Mac Mini for 30 bucks a month and less for [TS]

01:31:42 ◼   ► the first three months of use coupon code ATP 54 50% off and our second [TS]

01:31:47 ◼   ► sponsor was however [TS]

01:31:48 ◼   ► com slash ATP nice discount their register demands in a way that doesn't [TS]

01:31:54 ◼   ► suck they're the best record strive every used and they're awesome so good [TS]

01:31:58 ◼   ► to have to register all your demands and related to main activities such as email [TS]

01:32:02 ◼   ► forwarding DNS etcetera [TS]

01:32:04 ◼   ► thanks to our sponsors and thank you john Kasay [TS]

01:32:09 ◼   ► now this show they didn't even mean to begin accidental [TS]

01:32:25 ◼   ► it was accidental [TS]

01:32:29 ◼   ► and you can be there that's Casey list and Marco [TS]

01:33:09 ◼   ► and it would have been a tight show if you hadn't had the middle section for [TS]

01:33:14 ◼   ► half an hour we talked about Podcast net podcast yourself like you did it to [TS]

01:33:21 ◼   ► yourself I can't mean to me that just like a blog post and I haven't had time [TS]

01:33:26 ◼   ► so for the SAT so now we all get a blog I think it was in restitution I thought [TS]

01:33:33 ◼   ► was interesting to note it is but you're the one who's always against talk about [TS]

01:33:36 ◼   ► Pakistan pockets I don't know why I think it's okay to talk about podcast on [TS]

01:33:41 ◼   ► podcasts as long as you make fun of the first ok [TS]