The Accidental Tech Podcast

14: Pouring Champagne Onto Rap Stars


00:00:00   my mind defaulters not to accept an invitation to anything social so that [TS]

00:00:05   serves me well to receive pay so you had an interesting week a bit anything [TS]

00:00:12   happen [TS]

00:00:13   where's your car that's the interesting part I don't have my beginning tomorrow [TS]

00:00:18   or the next day or maybe maybe this weekend you know it's it's the same the [TS]

00:00:22   same BS so it's interested so yeah anything else happen [TS]

00:00:27   yeah I guess tumblr sold so you here so I hear ya any thoughts on that [TS]

00:00:35   me know I don't want to rehash my blog post too much but I mean what do you [TS]

00:00:43   wanna know I don't know where should I even begin there there's a lot there's a [TS]

00:00:47   lot to cover there there's there is practical aspects of who they're selling [TS]

00:00:53   to what what there may be doing what they might have sold why this is good or [TS]

00:00:57   bad what this means for tumblr what this means for me what this means for you [TS]

00:01:01   what this means for the animated GIF format there's there's so many things [TS]

00:01:05   that they began about how you start extremely selfishly myopic Lee and you [TS]

00:01:12   can blame me for this when you get a lot of flak for it and then will migrate our [TS]

00:01:15   way out to whether this is a good fit but for the two companies that's unfair [TS]

00:01:20   that works so you've bought how many opps how many cattle how many [TS]

00:01:25   helicopters and I do believe I speak for John and asking when is his Ferrari [TS]

00:01:29   arriving in one is my Aston arriving [TS]

00:01:32   well first of all I should also mention the other awesome thing that happened [TS]

00:01:35   this past week and that is that my wife and I visited the Syracuse's at their [TS]

00:01:39   house under that tree in part to the jury though I want him off [TS]

00:01:45   know we visited the house I stood under the tree and I managed to the head I [TS]

00:01:50   managed to stay conscious and and and dodge although the phone acorns however [TS]

00:01:54   I did witness the destruction that they have caused on these cars and and I do [TS]

00:01:58   agree with John that if he's going to park a car in his driveway it would it [TS]

00:02:04   would be a shame if it was a really awesome car getting all those dance [TS]

00:02:07   however I will also say that [TS]

00:02:11   one block away from John I passed a brand new black f10 m5 parked on the [TS]

00:02:18   street that's where your car is [TS]

00:02:20   yeah right exactly and and there are there were lots of nice cars in John's [TS]

00:02:28   vicinity that were parked on the street and so I think maybe street parking [TS]

00:02:32   might be good enough [TS]

00:02:34   well you can like that for half the year you can park in the winter cuz they plow [TS]

00:02:38   they don't allow it or you shouldn't notice to you can't tonight allowed [TS]

00:02:41   overnight anyway [TS]

00:02:42   ok yeah how many are there in the winter [TS]

00:02:47   yeah you know something in my garage but it's a small garage I could wedge car [TS]

00:02:53   and therefore need to think the same about the scars how to both covered with [TS]

00:02:56   dance for the most part all those dance for created like early on before I got [TS]

00:03:03   wise to you know what was going on certainly the ones of the Civic were all [TS]

00:03:06   made before I realized what was happening because they just notice it [TS]

00:03:09   then they accord it's like well tried to minimize it didn't care that much of a [TS]

00:03:14   fancy car I would park on the street all time are talking into the garage in both [TS]

00:03:18   places it would be totally safe for the garage will be tough because you can't [TS]

00:03:21   put the car into the garage with kids and they can't get out 'cause i cant [TS]

00:03:24   open the doors because the ground is too small so like I said I would need an [TS]

00:03:28   entire new house to go with the new car maybe like one of those things like the [TS]

00:03:33   apartments in hong kong something ready cargo not an elevator and then you can [TS]

00:03:37   look at it all day behind a glass wall yeah so the visit was good though I am [TS]

00:03:45   very jealous you and I had briefly colluded and I had thought about perhaps [TS]

00:03:50   crashing your visit but as it turns out I had a very busy week of going to prom [TS]

00:03:55   amongst other things and your weekend going to prom amongst other things and [TS]

00:03:59   that's not a joke and it's a story that I'm not gonna bother telling but I was [TS]

00:04:03   very disappointed that we couldn't that Aaron and I couldn't join you guys I [TS]

00:04:06   would've been really awesome but there was a good visit the original plan was [TS]

00:04:09   that would drive my new car there [TS]

00:04:11   and I'll be fun new car didn't didn't get here in time so and we were we were [TS]

00:04:16   going to messages for other reasons so so we figured but still visit the [TS]

00:04:20   Syracuse's even though I had my old slow car and the driver crappy BMW [TS]

00:04:25   practically terrible first world problems we should probably move so [TS]

00:04:35   let's talk about how your filthy stinking rich in never have to worry [TS]

00:04:39   about money except do it's not quite that simple there was a so there's [TS]

00:04:44   there's two things on this topic but they were really good here up in here [TS]

00:04:49   this is the link to one of them in the shower put the show notes by Dave Winer [TS]

00:04:53   from back in the year 2000 back when all the planes are supposed to fall out of [TS]

00:04:57   the sky and that one guy got a really overdo blockbuster bill accidentally so [TS]

00:05:03   in the year 2000 he is basically an article about you know theoretically [TS]

00:05:09   thinking about how much money do you need to be set and be fine and be secure [TS]

00:05:15   and then how happy with the actually make you in practice and even number of [TS]

00:05:23   good points like you know if you if you don't spend your money totally [TS]

00:05:26   irresponsible if you only buy things that you actually use so that rules out [TS]

00:05:30   things like you know fifteen different cars cars like only buy things you're [TS]

00:05:35   going to use and you know don't be totally crazy about it like how much [TS]

00:05:40   money do you really need before you can just live off the interest and you know [TS]

00:05:44   be be fairly secure and his point is that it's probably lower than you think [TS]

00:05:49   once you start realizing like well if you exclude things that you don't really [TS]

00:05:53   ever use then then you know it's not that much of the things that you won't [TS]

00:05:59   use but the point is the whole point being rich one of one of his point was [TS]

00:06:03   hilariously true and and and I might need to think about it at some point he [TS]

00:06:11   said that we get more practical buying things like second houses third cars [TS]

00:06:17   vacation homes big things that I wonder if most people would be comfortable [TS]

00:06:20   actually maintaining three cars have to be registered three times a year [TS]

00:06:24   your second home needs to be furnished to maintain even when you're not there [TS]

00:06:27   you say you can hire people to do these things for you then you to spend to time [TS]

00:06:31   in your life dealing with employees is this happiness it might not be as happy [TS]

00:06:35   as you think and you go so true it's like I just sold my fun car because I [TS]

00:06:41   didn't like having multiple cars like it was so inconvenient in so many ways that [TS]

00:06:46   I I'd rather just get one great car instead of having one decent car and one [TS]

00:06:51   fun car rather have one bigger fun car and just combine the roles and that's [TS]

00:06:57   that's that's what he's saying here is like you know if you if you start [TS]

00:07:00   limiting yourself to like only things you actually would feel comfortable [TS]

00:07:02   maintaining without being too much of a pain in the butt then then then a you [TS]

00:07:09   don't need as much money as you think to reach that point and be money won't make [TS]

00:07:15   you happy [TS]

00:07:16   by itself the chatroom got into the same thing I was thinking like you have to [TS]

00:07:20   break through that barrier so he could hire people to deal with the people that [TS]

00:07:23   you hired him in danger of their homes like that's that's the break through [TS]

00:07:27   barriers being rich rich is like no I don't want to deal with it the second [TS]

00:07:31   house and worrying about it hired dealing with employees you have to get [TS]

00:07:34   all way through to the point where you can hire people to deal with people did [TS]

00:07:38   you hire and then you just have to hire like maybe two or three good people and [TS]

00:07:41   you're all set and so having to deal with like incrementally as you buy more [TS]

00:07:45   things having to hire more people to deal but i think thats like that's a [TS]

00:07:49   whole other level like the same reason why I like you know there's this ancient [TS]

00:07:53   John Stauffer article that talks about enterprise software pricing and how [TS]

00:07:56   they're there's there's very little software price between $1,000 and [TS]

00:08:00   $15,000 because once you cross over that threshold of $1,000.00 so you need to [TS]

00:08:05   start sending sales people out to businesses and everything in your costs [TS]

00:08:08   go up tremendously by having overhead of committing the business and its ok to [TS]

00:08:12   spend this kind of money is a need to raise your prices like this big price [TS]

00:08:15   gap I feel like there's a big like you know rich person management alike if you [TS]

00:08:21   where you can't like it would suck to hire like a person to manage your [TS]

00:08:28   vacation house for you and in my opinion also sucks to maintain a vacation house [TS]

00:08:32   like my in-laws have always had like there [TS]

00:08:35   r their regular house in their vacation house and my mom has has she said the [TS]

00:08:39   same setup now she's back to one house but maintaining two houses really does [TS]

00:08:44   suck like my my mom and my endless day they like doing it so that was fine and [TS]

00:08:49   you know they that was fine for them maybe it's fine for Merlin but I think [TS]

00:08:55   like the idea of maintaining multiple houses like it's the same reason why [TS]

00:09:00   didn't want to cause any more like I just I hate all that crap and and you're [TS]

00:09:05   right yeah I guess I guess like the super rich will then have have tears of [TS]

00:09:10   people that are maintaining but that's really expensive and so you have to have [TS]

00:09:15   to be like [TS]

00:09:16   substantially wrecked it even manage that and be even if I got that kind of [TS]

00:09:22   money I don't think I feel good about spending it like that you know that if I [TS]

00:09:27   were talking you know once once the rumors are flying about the number thing [TS]

00:09:31   on I think it was Friday night when they first came out we start talking like ok [TS]

00:09:35   what if this is really you know what will we do if we if we get a chunk of [TS]

00:09:40   money from this and we we both know we're talking through really no I don't [TS]

00:09:46   think we really gonna buy anything immediately and I don't think we're [TS]

00:09:50   gonna make any substantial changes in our life like it and didn't tell her [TS]

00:09:54   about the pci-express SSD I guess I I told her it installed for you guys this [TS]

00:10:00   is this is how much I like you guys it's installed in my computer right now and [TS]

00:10:04   I'm not using it because the transfer would have taken too long and I would [TS]

00:10:08   have run over into the show ya so this move your email and try to copy all your [TS]

00:10:13   data at the same time the email is a separate issue I was actually deleting [TS]

00:10:18   80,000 notification emails from PayPal from various Instapaper subscription [TS]

00:10:24   things over the years cuz everytime people as anything the email you even if [TS]

00:10:27   it's something like that we're like an API will be a lot better [TS]

00:10:30   nope nope somebody has to get an email so people are so so bad please I i [TS]

00:10:38   prayed to the gods of programming out there don't let anybody ever used PayPal [TS]

00:10:42   again by the way this is a topic we talk about when its launch but [TS]

00:10:48   this Jolla square cash thing looks really interesting you see this thing [TS]

00:10:53   that your iPad goes into to make a point of sale [TS]

00:10:55   know that that's something that's the register this is square is apparently [TS]

00:10:59   beta testing or by by invitation only testing a service where you can send [TS]

00:11:04   anybody what appears to be an ACH payment for $0.25 no matter what the [TS]

00:11:09   amount of the payment is to an email address and email address and they log [TS]

00:11:13   in and they they claim that the deposit in the bank and now you're Philadelphia [TS]

00:11:17   $0.25 yeah now so and if true that would that would make it substantially cheaper [TS]

00:11:24   than almost any other easy way to send amounts of money larger than a few [TS]

00:11:29   dollars it's it would be it would be very very nice like three percent or [TS]

00:11:36   2.9% plus $0.30 minimum or something like that ever and as a percentage of [TS]

00:11:40   you send someone ten grand also has ties to be spending right exactly and and so [TS]

00:11:45   like you know if if you know your if your space or buy something for like [TS]

00:11:49   $1000 or $500 or something online and you know if if the vendor or if you are [TS]

00:11:54   you know somebody's eating three percent off that that actually add up to be good [TS]

00:11:59   money and so an end to the most part there really isn't a good way to do big [TS]

00:12:04   transfers like that in the us- and I know the rest of the country for the [TS]

00:12:09   rest of the world has like all these electronic payments in in very common [TS]

00:12:13   usage we really don the USA everything here is backwards and you can you can [TS]

00:12:17   help somebody a paper check which I don't even know if people in the world [TS]

00:12:23   even know what we mean by that you would spell it with a qu at the end and it's [TS]

00:12:31   it's like I feel like the rest of the world looks at the way we deal with [TS]

00:12:35   money in the USA with transferring money the same really we look at our parents [TS]

00:12:39   of all they ever use of those vacuum tube things they never used ATMs you [TS]

00:12:43   know like it too so backwards anyway but I forgot I lost track so you did not [TS]

00:12:50   know in advance you were not briefed that's correct and so so i cant actually [TS]

00:12:56   this is not for the show's just for me what happens when you're sitting at home [TS]

00:12:59   on a Friday night you see holy cow [TS]

00:13:01   God the company that I have at least a shred of interest and is going to sell [TS]

00:13:07   four billion dollars I think how do you react to that [TS]

00:13:11   well I was very very cautious in in my emotional responses because it wasn't [TS]

00:13:17   definite [TS]

00:13:18   I I wanted like I didn't hear about it in any kind of official capacity until [TS]

00:13:23   after the press release out on Monday morning so you know I learned in the [TS]

00:13:29   press the same way everyone else learned and not at all no because think about [TS]

00:13:36   Yahoo's a public company so I guess I knew in advance that could cause [TS]

00:13:40   problems with some kind of trading think of it like i dont wanna I don't want to [TS]

00:13:44   deal with that crap you know that's the last thing I do is get into like weird [TS]

00:13:48   financial regulations and put myself at risk or anything you know like so I'm [TS]

00:13:54   very glad that I was I was just as informed as the public on this but I [TS]

00:14:02   didn't want to mentally admit to myself that it was happening until I knew for [TS]

00:14:07   sure that it was happening and I'm still a little bit reserved in my head because [TS]

00:14:10   like the cell hasn't technically closed yet like I don't have the money yet so [TS]

00:14:16   like that that takes weeks or months of various paperwork and everything so i [TS]

00:14:21   don't i don't think I even know when it will close I know it's going to happen [TS]

00:14:24   eventually but you know so I think once once I actually have some kind of [TS]

00:14:30   tremendous bank deposit you know then I'll feel real until it's still kinda [TS]

00:14:34   like now it feels almost real because it's been confirmed but over the weekend [TS]

00:14:37   it was really just like I think this might happen because the reports they [TS]

00:14:43   were from AllThingsD and there were multiple reports and that's that's a [TS]

00:14:46   pretty good sign they're pretty well sourced and also you know and every [TS]

00:14:51   little bit about this in the post from everything I know about David and Tumblr [TS]

00:14:56   the reports sounded extremely plausible it was like OJ Simpson's like if I [TS]

00:15:01   didn't book like lisa has heard about that took me a second to realize what it [TS]

00:15:08   was like like if they were gonna sell it [TS]

00:15:11   this is how it go you know so I so I knew like looking at these reports like [TS]

00:15:15   this looks just looks real and so I I was pretty sure that they were [TS]

00:15:22   definitely negotiating this I but just like everyone else you know it was [TS]

00:15:26   hinged upon the Yahoo board approving it and then I didn't know it was going to [TS]

00:15:30   approve it [TS]

00:15:30   United know what's going on so so I believed hundred-percent that there were [TS]

00:15:36   talks but I did not know whether whether it would result in an actual sale or not [TS]

00:15:40   you know cause I mean when you have a company that size is always talks has [TS]

00:15:43   talked all the time with people right now you didn't immediately start making [TS]

00:15:48   a list of where you're going to buy a second garage and what caused you can [TS]

00:15:52   fill it with or not it's a thing like this great day one article I i dont [TS]

00:15:57   really wanna make any changes like that in my life because you know I i've kind [TS]

00:16:03   of been lucky in in when I've made money in my life that if I can say that [TS]

00:16:10   without sounding too much like an arrogant [TS]

00:16:12   you know I started out from a pretty modest background and so I always I [TS]

00:16:22   always had a pretty good sense of money I always had to work for my money i we [TS]

00:16:26   had to save my own money you know I was bought my own stuff with my money so [TS]

00:16:31   that's why I have like my side of things like reviewing the best like trying to [TS]

00:16:37   find the best headphones try to find the best light bulbs like that's that's [TS]

00:16:40   where that comes from in me it that that's that's the part my personality [TS]

00:16:43   comes from is like trying to try to get a goodbye try not to like waste money [TS]

00:16:48   unnecessarily stuff like that so it helped that then in a way with [TS]

00:16:56   Instapaper and for a while having two incomes and wisdom I was doing in this [TS]

00:17:01   paper and homework the same time I started getting some extra money and [TS]

00:17:05   because it happened gradually and because I had come up from that [TS]

00:17:10   background I was never like blowing money wastefully I was never like you [TS]

00:17:15   know I don't think I mean least excessively is never late being totally [TS]

00:17:19   responsible about it and so now that I have more than that [TS]

00:17:24   that I will eventually have more than that I'm kind of glad that I had this [TS]

00:17:31   intermediate steps because you see like when people when people win the lottery [TS]

00:17:36   and you use it like working class people who have never had access money in their [TS]

00:17:41   lives they win the lottery and parliament has an issue this week they [TS]

00:17:46   win the lottery and then like like like statistically so many of them are [TS]

00:17:50   actually not very well off like a year to lean more like not very happy if they [TS]

00:17:56   have problems you know there's so many ways like I think no matter who matter [TS]

00:18:01   whatever and making my life no matter how much money I have or make in the [TS]

00:18:07   future I don't want to do things like have had a iPhone and iPhone you know [TS]

00:18:12   and by the way I should point I got a really nice email from Dave Morgan he [TS]

00:18:18   did you yeah he's here you know the more I never met the guy but but I've emailed [TS]

00:18:22   him a few times I really do think he's a decent person who just got caught with a [TS]

00:18:27   terrible interview like you get you know hehe I i dont wanna say what he said i [TS]

00:18:32   think is private but it sound like he was definitely like a victim of of a [TS]

00:18:36   sensational editor and writer that like almost everything he said there was [TS]

00:18:42   probably taken out of context and and so he's he's not as bad as it sounds but [TS]

00:18:49   anyway so you know there's things like that and I think are are just [TS]

00:18:56   unnecessary and wasteful and no matter how much I have or don't have always [TS]

00:19:02   think that and so I already have most of what I want because most of what I want [TS]

00:19:08   is affordable and have been able to afford it so I don't really like I don't [TS]

00:19:13   this is why this is not really going to change like I'm really happy that we [TS]

00:19:18   bought our house back when I was working at tumblr so just on a it was a good job [TS]

00:19:24   it was still a regular salary job so we bought a mid-price house for our area [TS]

00:19:30   and we didn't go crazy we didn't spend like millions of dollars on some giant [TS]

00:19:35   mansion [TS]

00:19:36   and I feel like if I didn't yet own a house and I suddenly came into a big [TS]

00:19:41   lump sum of money I might be tempted to spend a big chunk of the house and now [TS]

00:19:46   that temptation is gone because we already bought a house we are to have [TS]

00:19:49   this house and moved the concept of the idea of moving is so unappealing to me [TS]

00:19:55   that you know it doesn't really matter that we matter if we come into big sums [TS]

00:20:03   of money at any point now live from this point forward we have a house we want [TS]

00:20:07   for the foreseeable future and so I don't need to I don't need to blow all [TS]

00:20:13   the money on on a big house or something like that you know it's interesting to [TS]

00:20:18   me that dear friend of the show david smith said in the chat and I completely [TS]

00:20:23   agree with him independence is the vert virtue I value most some of which money [TS]

00:20:27   can buy but moreover is about how you make choices and I think that's very [TS]

00:20:31   true and I would I would build onto onto that that everything is relative and so [TS]

00:20:36   I think to Miami I make a decent living we're very comfortable and I think [TS]

00:20:41   myself man it would be pretty cool to be able to go and just buy or lease [TS]

00:20:45   whatever brand new m5 I think that beat it's arguably within reach maybe but [TS]

00:20:51   it's it's still a stretch if not a little bit outside of the edge of my arm [TS]

00:20:56   that makes any sense [TS]

00:20:57   similarly I'm sure there are people that would say man I would love to have a [TS]

00:21:01   lightly used three series and then there are people that would say man I would [TS]

00:21:05   love to have a lightly used accord were or whatever in and I'm not trying to say [TS]

00:21:10   that that that we are ranked in any sort of way financially it's just that [TS]

00:21:15   everything is relative and everything is a choice and I think I speak for both of [TS]

00:21:21   you guys I feel like I know both you pretty darn well that we make choices [TS]

00:21:24   about how we want to spend our money in such a way that we are not really [TS]

00:21:28   longing for more of course everyone always wants more money but it's not the [TS]

00:21:33   sort of thing where our lives would be demonstrably different if any one of us [TS]

00:21:38   had say double the salary that we have today on John doesn't make sense to you [TS]

00:21:42   would you agree with any of my crazy might be different but not [TS]

00:21:45   many important way beyond important way is still be cool he would absolutely be [TS]

00:21:51   cool like I think I always feel like I would be excellent rich person I will [TS]

00:21:59   never actually be a rich person that that's just like those stories of people [TS]

00:22:05   who win the lottery and do foolish things money or like recording artist [TS]

00:22:08   Sibylle or the money just like man like you know the money was wasted on them [TS]

00:22:13   because they had no idea what they're doing and just you know and I don't know [TS]

00:22:17   what it is I don't know how it is any connection at all between the people who [TS]

00:22:22   end up getting rich and and are smarter than many of the people I think maybe [TS]

00:22:25   the only thing that I could come up with is that you mostly hear about the people [TS]

00:22:29   who get a lot of money and screw it up there is tons and tons of people get a [TS]

00:22:33   lot of money and don't screw it up and it's boring so you don't hear stories [TS]

00:22:37   about them so you know they just have a nice life and live within their newly [TS]

00:22:42   expanded means perfectly fine and and that's boring and you'll hear about [TS]

00:22:46   their do you know the person who gets old but I you know that's and I don't [TS]

00:22:53   know if there's anything you do it like that the market is that it's nice to get [TS]

00:22:55   money gradually learn to deal with it I don't think if you got it all of a [TS]

00:22:59   sudden you you would have blunted anyway like I think it's just a personality [TS]

00:23:02   type thing where you know I'm no amount of training with gradual because what [TS]

00:23:07   you see with the gradual ramp-up of money and I'm sure we've all seen this [TS]

00:23:09   is it you know someone graduates college or something and I start their first job [TS]

00:23:13   and they get like a low salary and they get an apartment to keep getting raises [TS]

00:23:16   a nicer apartment and they get married and get a better job of two incomes and [TS]

00:23:20   buy a house in like that can just continue to creep creep up where people [TS]

00:23:24   every time that people get a little more disposable income like oh wow we can [TS]

00:23:27   afford a better house you can afford a better over now we can afford a better [TS]

00:23:30   this and they just there never are content to live within their means need [TS]

00:23:34   to chase their income to the point where they're like boy I need to be making [TS]

00:23:40   three hundred grand a year just to maintain my lifestyle and my wife needs [TS]

00:23:43   to also make 300 grandkids now our lifestyle requires six hundred grand a [TS]

00:23:47   year just to get by just to pay for all the cars and houses and private schools [TS]

00:23:51   and fancy clothes and vacations that we're now accustomed to and [TS]

00:23:55   a decrease in my income is now a sacrifice my lifestyle and that that's [TS]

00:23:59   the the the the travels of gradually rushing things if you're not smart about [TS]

00:24:03   your money is that you just constantly as soon as you get some more disposable [TS]

00:24:07   income you want to upgrade everything in your life so that's likely more [TS]

00:24:11   insidious version of the OS gonna blow it all on you know fast cars and women [TS]

00:24:15   can be broken and I know I definitely know people like that who they're living [TS]

00:24:22   within their means but always just and that is a foolish may have pushed me to [TS]

00:24:26   live I mean I can also play with me like I also have I guess some personal traits [TS]

00:24:33   that they keep this in check like one of them is that I hate any kind of debt I [TS]

00:24:37   really I I prefer to not have any debt if I can and fortunately for most of my [TS]

00:24:43   life have been able to maintain that that's not entirely sure I had a car [TS]

00:24:48   payment back anyway [TS]

00:24:49   tax shelter for your mortgage interest to keep that one right and but also you [TS]

00:24:56   know I have a pretty boring life style by most people's measurements you know [TS]

00:25:00   what I don't go out and party I'm not gonna be buying $1,000 bottle of [TS]

00:25:05   champagne to pour onto rap stars or anything I i dont know im still like no [TS]

00:25:12   matter how much money I ever have and probably always going to wear jeans and [TS]

00:25:16   a t-shirt most days like you look at Steve Jobs the way he lived he had a [TS]

00:25:23   ridiculous car that he got a new one every few months we would have to have a [TS]

00:25:26   license plate but he lives in a pretty normal house like it was a nice house [TS]

00:25:33   but it wasn't like some kind of tremendous state you know with horses [TS]

00:25:36   and tennis courts and he was like a regular house in a neighborhood he wore [TS]

00:25:40   regular clothes he wore regular shoes you know he had nice computers but [TS]

00:25:45   that's understandable and it's also not that much money relatively speaking [TS]

00:25:50   you know I feel like I feel like it in in the way that that John you say you'd [TS]

00:25:56   be a really good rich person I think I'd be pretty terrible one because [TS]

00:26:00   I don't do any of those things that you think of as rich people doing and I have [TS]

00:26:06   no desire to like I don't intend to join a country club I thought I would I would [TS]

00:26:12   have to kick my own but if i dont a country club I don't intend to like even [TS]

00:26:18   golf which have actually enjoys got quite a bit but I don't I don't intend [TS]

00:26:26   to do that myself like the idea of even like her like I i don't want to do [TS]

00:26:35   anything that would cause the rest of my working-class family to think I'm a dick [TS]

00:26:40   you know that makes sense like that's the the sensibilities of regular people [TS]

00:26:46   have been so bad into my personality that I never even I have the ability to [TS]

00:26:51   blow any amount of money on some particular thing I don't want to do it [TS]

00:26:57   cuz i dont want I want to do it myself i dont wanna know that I did that and I [TS]

00:27:01   don't want my family to find out here in the thing that struck me was I i dont [TS]

00:27:09   number what day it was but I noticed either Friday or over the weekend or [TS]

00:27:13   maybe it was Monday night one of you guys are you hurt if posted a picture [TS]

00:27:18   from the restaurant that the four of us have been to a couple times that's right [TS]

00:27:24   near you and I thought to myself you know if I had had some amount of [TS]

00:27:28   windfall be that a thousand bucks 10,000 bucks whatever doesn't matter but some [TS]

00:27:33   amount of windfall I think what area and I would probably do is go to a nicer [TS]

00:27:37   dinner you a nice city or something like that [TS]

00:27:39   not something absurd not thousand dollar bottles of wine or whatever or champagne [TS]

00:27:43   or whatever what have you got a nice dinner and here it is that you guys have [TS]

00:27:49   ostensibly just earned a significant amount of money granted it's not there [TS]

00:27:55   yet but in principle you've earned a significant amount of money and here it [TS]

00:27:58   is you went to the same restaurant that the four of us have gone to I think [TS]

00:28:02   every time if not every time we visited you then nearly every time and it is not [TS]

00:28:05   a bad restaurant by any stretch but it's an average American restaurant casual [TS]

00:28:09   family pub you know like not on trees like 10 bucks you know it's not yet and [TS]

00:28:15   you know I went there because we have a one-year-old like them at fancy [TS]

00:28:21   restaurants we used to go to this place like once a week ever since we had the [TS]

00:28:24   kid we now go to like once every five months because I so don't want to be [TS]

00:28:28   that guy whose kids are screaming in the restaurant serving on the floor I'm so [TS]

00:28:32   afraid of being that guy that we hardly ever go out to restaurants anymore and [TS]

00:28:37   that's like that's how I spent that day I didn't shower until right before when [TS]

00:28:41   the restaurant I was in a crappy white t-shirt I swept my patio cuz they were [TS]

00:28:46   flowers from a tree all over it like I did I'm a regular person doing regular [TS]

00:28:51   things like that my day to day life is not going to change people shower and go [TS]

00:28:56   to work in the morning just let it slip that you want to see i've been i've been [TS]

00:29:03   showering inappropriately times the day for like a year and a half now [TS]

00:29:06   unemployed people do that too [TS]

00:29:08   why don't you just want to ask you about Yahoo [TS]

00:29:12   our first sponsor this evening like I don't know when you're listening to this [TS]

00:29:17   but for the live listeners are for sponsor this evening is Squarespace this [TS]

00:29:22   episode has once again brought to you by Squarespace there the all-in-one [TS]

00:29:26   platform that makes it easy to create your own website for a free trial and [TS]

00:29:30   10% off the square space.com news the offer code ATP 54 accident tech podcast [TS]

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00:30:00   but you know if you want some help [TS]

00:30:01   they have an amazing support team that worked 24 hours a day seven days a week [TS]

00:30:05   starts just $8 a month included remaining if you if you sign up for a [TS]

00:30:10   year in advance so anyway as I said earlier you can try screen space for [TS]

00:30:14   free [TS]

00:30:14   there's no credit card required this is a real free trial we don't give me [TS]

00:30:18   credit card and if you forget the auto bailout no you don't [TS]

00:30:20   credit cards a real tree trial and if you purchase it make sure you get 10% [TS]

00:30:25   off coupon code 85 @ thank you that I support the show [TS]

00:30:30   Squarespace is everything you need to create an exceptional website know thank [TS]

00:30:37   you for sponsoring them sponsors for like the 95th time you imagine how much [TS]

00:30:41   the podcast Robert sockets Christmas it would suck so hard it would be to turn [TS]

00:30:46   their seriously supporting like half the podcast industry it's absolutely true [TS]

00:30:51   and I don't know how they do it but I'm glad they do and not just for the [TS]

00:30:55   chauffeur for all the different shows they sponsor so I want to start by [TS]

00:31:00   asking John and I wanna hear Marco you can wrap this up [TS]

00:31:04   John what do you think about the idea of Yahoo and Tumblr being one sort of but [TS]

00:31:11   not doesn't make sense to you too that is that is that a good marriage if you [TS]

00:31:15   will or does that make no sense it makes sense in a cynical way that these [TS]

00:31:20   acquisitions make sense in the Yahoo is clearly like in turn around I guess [TS]

00:31:25   you'd call it you know the new CEO bold new strategy cut the fat recon straight [TS]

00:31:31   on the good things are so it's it's in the mode where it's trying to turn [TS]

00:31:35   itself around and it used to be the hip cool thing but isn't anymore and it [TS]

00:31:40   makes sense that it would be up there shopping for something that is hip and [TS]

00:31:43   cool and something that has a lot of users and Tumblr on the other hand it is [TS]

00:31:47   insanely popular tremendous growth but very little but in a way of ways to turn [TS]

00:31:55   all that popularity and money they did what they sell premium themes and some [TS]

00:31:59   sort of promoted post stuff like not the type of you know that they have all [TS]

00:32:03   these users and they want to monetize them and they haven't quite figured out [TS]

00:32:06   how to do it in a way that scales with the size of their business so they're [TS]

00:32:12   more than happy to take Yahoo's money and I was more than happy to give it [TS]

00:32:16   like what is Yahoo need lots of users and cool and I need money because it has [TS]

00:32:21   been how to make enough on its own so in that sense the marriage makes sense but [TS]

00:32:25   then when I think about what are we left with is this combination [TS]

00:32:29   is gonna help Yahoo as much certainly was gonna help tumbler with money but is [TS]

00:32:36   it just like ok well now we have assured that you we can continue to be tumblr to [TS]

00:32:40   be cool but also continue not to make money that's not really a great outcome [TS]

00:32:44   in its kind of neutral her tumblr but not great for Yahoo so I wonder how much [TS]

00:32:49   tumblers really gonna help Yahoo how they gonna they're gonna figure [TS]

00:32:52   something out together to become more than they were individually remains to [TS]

00:32:56   be seen [TS]

00:32:58   I completely agree and I just don't understand how this Billy benefits Yahoo [TS]

00:33:04   released in the near term in any way other than hey look that company that [TS]

00:33:09   that website that all the kids these days really like yeah that's arms baby [TS]

00:33:14   but they get all the users to them like that now all of those users are their [TS]

00:33:19   users and you know when you have that number one is maybe Marco knows what is [TS]

00:33:24   nice and graphs on how many millions of people on tumblr now it's like its big [TS]

00:33:29   number and and so even if those people like well then I like you have access to [TS]

00:33:36   them in some way like you have a shot like they're yours their captive and so [TS]

00:33:40   if you call for some great new idea for some new property or something really [TS]

00:33:44   just want to promote the new Flickr to them or something suddenly you can do [TS]

00:33:48   that and you know what the PayPal blur to put like one little hey check on [TS]

00:33:50   Flickr thing in the upper right-hand corner that you can just do that really [TS]

00:33:53   easily that's a stupid example but like having access to those people psycho it [TS]

00:33:59   is a big to try making if Yahoo tried to say we're going to make a new service [TS]

00:34:02   and it's going to become a popular stomper good luck with that right but so [TS]

00:34:05   just getting time but you get those people so you still have a good time and [TS]

00:34:08   money from them not to piss them off and all those other things but at least at [TS]

00:34:12   least there there that equals billion dollars I guess yeah and the show David [TS]

00:34:18   Spencer said 300 million monthly unique visitors 220,000 sign ups everyday David [TS]

00:34:23   Smith is basically a real-time follow whenever you see her naturally but they [TS]

00:34:28   agree 13 times the show which is not surprising but I agree [TS]

00:34:34   thank you I don't see how Yahoo can really capitalize on having all these [TS]

00:34:42   users without taking off all these users in the sense that if I were developed [TS]

00:34:46   tumblr users and my blog that I write on once every seven years these days is on [TS]

00:34:51   tumblr but that being said if I were fighting really know the backstory and I [TS]

00:34:56   just heard in the news Yahoo now on Tumblr and all of a sudden I start [TS]

00:35:02   seeing links told his Yahoo properties immediately I'm starting from my hands [TS]

00:35:05   in the air and saying how they sold out and now I feel like I'm just another [TS]

00:35:08   eyeball to show up to their other properties to do in a crappy think think [TS]

00:35:13   of the newly revised Flickr on Flickr was it a much beloved service that [TS]

00:35:18   seemed to stagnate and now they revised it is mostly the revisions also getting [TS]

00:35:21   a thumbs-up right thing about this right so wouldn't it be great if you could [TS]

00:35:26   very easily plus pictures from Flickr to your tumblr does that hurt you as a [TS]

00:35:31   tumblr users know now it may be easier for you I suspect maybe you didn't use [TS]

00:35:34   Flickr be like oh well since it integrates all of tumblr now may be a [TS]

00:35:38   sign up for the Flickr thing and you someday become a Flickr user Flickr does [TS]

00:35:42   have a business model maybe perhaps not a great one yourself standing on but it [TS]

00:35:46   does have some way to collect money from you and that's kind of you know it's [TS]

00:35:49   like a sack type things like how well there was free and integrate well [TS]

00:35:54   integrated with tumblr and I'll sign up for it and then you start looking sexy [TS]

00:35:57   pretty cool you start using an like you didn't feel like it was shoved in your [TS]

00:36:01   face but merely because they're under the same umbrella they can do deep you [TS]

00:36:05   know really cool integration that wouldn't be possible through just if [TS]

00:36:08   they were just talking to each other in API over the internet as two separate [TS]

00:36:12   companies and that's that's one small example but I really I think it is [TS]

00:36:16   possible I think Apple stuff is integrated with each other it is [TS]

00:36:19   possible to do integration in a way that customer see as friendly and beneficial [TS]

00:36:23   and not as shoving each other services in my face and then that makes me wonder [TS]

00:36:30   is it really worth a billion dollars for that [TS]

00:36:33   potential integration and that potential way of making these eyeballs look in [TS]

00:36:39   these other directions and I would guess marcus says yes but super user you know [TS]

00:36:45   like you have added up like think carl does it cost of someone share another [TS]

00:36:49   cost of acquiring new customers if you do the math Mike how many new potential [TS]

00:36:53   customers that just grab under its umbrella how much should I pay for each [TS]

00:36:57   of them but I think things are worth what people are willing to pay for them [TS]

00:37:00   and so that's just how r capitalism works so someone was going to pay a [TS]

00:37:06   billion that it that it is by definition worth a billion you know and it's [TS]

00:37:12   certainly I found it refreshing in market promise I'll give you a chance [TS]

00:37:15   here in a second but I found it refreshing although odd that their press [TS]

00:37:18   release was so self-deprecating as a self-deprecating guy I that made me [TS]

00:37:24   happy to see somebody else to talk the way I talk but it was odyssey that a [TS]

00:37:28   press release I think the second I tweeted something like the second line [TS]

00:37:32   of the official press release this wasn't the thing that that David posted [TS]

00:37:35   on tumblr it was the official Yahoo press release the second the [TS]

00:37:40   sub-headline was promises not screwed up and I thought that was so remarkable and [TS]

00:37:45   it was it was also my thought it was awesome anyway and in that was to me [TS]

00:37:50   that was a very good sign that that that they know not to screw in a light on the [TS]

00:37:57   other side don't you kind of by definition need to screw it up in order [TS]

00:38:01   to get any real tangible value out of it and John I think your point a minute ago [TS]

00:38:06   so great counterargument that no maybe if you just do a really good and sought [TS]

00:38:11   all job of integrating with your existing properties maybe you don't need [TS]

00:38:14   to screw it up in order to get your money's worth [TS]

00:38:16   but it's it's a maybe I'm just not imaginative but it's a very big leap for [TS]

00:38:21   me to see how you can really get a billion dollars worth out of just [TS]

00:38:27   integrating with liquor and I know that was a silly example but you did it [TS]

00:38:31   doesn't make sense [TS]

00:38:31   tumblr tumblr is a little bit of a puzzle because tumblr had a long time on [TS]

00:38:36   its own [TS]

00:38:36   during which it cannot figure out how to get its money's worth out of its [TS]

00:38:42   tremendous number of users I don't think that Twitter has the same type of [TS]

00:38:46   situation you're not going to get money out of them but like they like you feel [TS]

00:38:50   like you should be getting Facebook's size and money out of a facebook size [TS]

00:38:55   number of users Facebook as well over 200 million never been a bit like they [TS]

00:39:00   got enough surely enough money to keep themselves going and everything happens [TS]

00:39:04   just like man just just just so many people like how do we how do we get the [TS]

00:39:08   money that we know is there like these people like our product they using it [TS]

00:39:11   but probably not willing to pay more than likely just gotta be something [TS]

00:39:14   locked up in there and and just didn't feel like company ever figured out how [TS]

00:39:17   to get the amount of money that thought it should get out of there maybe Yahoo [TS]

00:39:21   doesn't need that kind of money out of these users because it uses themselves [TS]

00:39:25   just having them happy and using this something that that Yahoo owns is in [TS]

00:39:29   itself [TS]

00:39:30   worthwhile so they don't need to get more money out of it but I don't think [TS]

00:39:34   you can just suddenly turn on the money for Citroen Tumblr and say now we just [TS]

00:39:39   believe these people drive because that will that will go running away and [TS]

00:39:42   you're never you're never gonna get that kind of money under these people that [TS]

00:39:47   did you think you should just because someone else but not gonna pay to use [TS]

00:39:51   Tumblr not that many of its Marco and let us havin what do you think well I [TS]

00:39:58   should preface this first of all with a tremendous disclaimer that I don't have [TS]

00:40:04   any inside information here really I love Tumblr in 2010 even then I hadn't [TS]

00:40:12   gone to the board meetings in years I really wasn't that familiar with the [TS]

00:40:15   finances the company or even the girls at that point I was focused entirely on [TS]

00:40:19   just my job because service stuff but certainly since 1955 had minimal contact [TS]

00:40:27   with them I see the people they're here in there socially but we don't talk [TS]

00:40:31   business and I'm usually used her that much since then because I what I want to [TS]

00:40:38   write my own BlogEngine and support that so anyway I should preface this by [TS]

00:40:41   saying that this is not based on any kind of inside information about the [TS]

00:40:44   company and I'm still a bit nervous to even comment on this but I'll do my best [TS]

00:40:50   to give you some kind of content without getting myself into any kind of trouble [TS]

00:40:55   I think in in very general terms I think that Yahoo has a lot of money but they [TS]

00:41:04   don't have a lot of relevance and tumblr has a lot of relevance and they don't [TS]

00:41:08   have a lot of money and so i i think it if you look at the dollar value for a [TS]

00:41:17   while because I don't think the dollar value matters that much for looking at [TS]

00:41:22   why these companies benefit from each other I think tumblr first of all the [TS]

00:41:31   discussions on whether Yahoo's gonna screw it up I think you to consider [TS]

00:41:38   first of all that the alternative is not tumblr adjusting as it exists now [TS]

00:41:43   forever [TS]

00:41:44   alternative would be tumblr securing it up or Tumblr not screwing it up and so [TS]

00:41:49   you can look at some of my Twitter where twitter twitter had a similar growth [TS]

00:41:54   patterns tumblr about a year and a half before it and rather than get acquired [TS]

00:42:00   and some kind of massive mega-deal like this twitter has has led to just keep [TS]

00:42:05   going independently and and you know try to make a profit reliably and and and [TS]

00:42:11   you know maybe eventually have an IPO who knows but you can look at what [TS]

00:42:16   winners had to do to pull that off and it's really angered a lot of people [TS]

00:42:20   included so you have to consider also you know what of tumblr didn't get [TS]

00:42:27   acquired right now what would the next few years of tumblr look like and the [TS]

00:42:34   company was growing so quickly and as a result of course I'm sure again this is [TS]

00:42:39   not based on inside information I i assume their costs were growing a lot [TS]

00:42:44   too and the problem is right now Facebook's IPO was a huge disappointment [TS]

00:42:52   before that Zynga's IPO was a huge disappointment and a huge [TS]

00:42:59   disappointments [TS]

00:43:00   big consumer web tech companies having IPOs have not done very well recently [TS]

00:43:06   and so when your company gets really really big to the point where almost [TS]

00:43:11   nobody can afford to buy you any more like Twitter is a great example when you [TS]

00:43:17   think about what they have to do you know if if they have to keep raising [TS]

00:43:22   money from investors those investors going to start thinking about what's the [TS]

00:43:24   exit plan here you know how we ever gonna get this [TS]

00:43:27   get a good return on this money you know if we're gonna be dropping you know [TS]

00:43:31   hundreds of millions of dollars into your company if the IPO market isn't [TS]

00:43:35   very good you know if if our out if are possible outcome is what happened to [TS]

00:43:39   Facebook with their crappy botched IPO than you know that's not very good for [TS]

00:43:45   the investor so I think it's probably hard to raise money when you're that big [TS]

00:43:50   of a company I kind of reasonable terms and that's why I think we see what [TS]

00:43:55   Twitter's been doing this past year to is trying to make a lot of money as [TS]

00:44:01   quickly as they possibly can so again this is not based on inside information [TS]

00:44:06   the speculation but I think it's probably worth considering whether [TS]

00:44:12   tumblr would have reached that point and if so when [TS]

00:44:15   and now that Yahoo has bought it if they were gonna be anywhere near that point [TS]

00:44:22   they probably wouldn't be any more or at least the pressure will be significantly [TS]

00:44:26   reduced in the times gonna be more flexible not to say that Yahoo has [TS]

00:44:30   bottomless pockets but you know Yahoo can afford for this unit of their [TS]

00:44:36   business to lose money for a few quarters are for a few years before it [TS]

00:44:40   starts making money or as an independent company can't really do that very well [TS]

00:44:44   you can but then I mess up your finances and so this is not a great time to be a [TS]

00:44:51   company like Twitter where the hope of an IPO making a big is pretty low and [TS]

00:44:58   you're so big nobody can by you and you can only raise money on good terms [TS]

00:45:02   anymore so that's why Twitter kinda had to do what it did to be bought and I [TS]

00:45:10   didn't want to be but most people could afford [TS]

00:45:13   you know most most people who were likely to want to buy Twitter whenever [TS]

00:45:17   really hard time justifying a kind of purchase and Twitter doesn't want to be [TS]

00:45:21   like you said that was a decision so that's different than not being able to [TS]

00:45:25   like me on facebook the same thing face because the classic example where we got [TS]

00:45:28   who's speaking of wanted to buy facebook four tons of money at various points and [TS]

00:45:34   taste said no and that was you know that was his call and it seemed at the time [TS]

00:45:39   but now Facebook is much bigger than they were then and you know worked out [TS]

00:45:43   for him [TS]

00:45:44   Twitter seem to follow the same playbook people wanted to buy them they said no [TS]

00:45:47   we want to go to longer going to be the next Facebook and now we're waiting to [TS]

00:45:50   see if that's the case so yes i know im so I think you can make a pretty good [TS]

00:45:56   case for why tumblr benefits from Yahoo because there's this whole set of [TS]

00:46:04   massive financial pressures that not to say that that all pressure off them but [TS]

00:46:11   now they have a lot more flexibility in that presumably and plus a look at what [TS]

00:46:18   you what tumblr has tumblr has like you know all these users and all his [TS]

00:46:23   relevance on these cool people in all this hip content being created all this [TS]

00:46:27   engagement and they don't really have much of an ad sales force yet as Yahoo [TS]

00:46:33   has a massive ad sales force and they're desperate for use of engagement so again [TS]

00:46:37   I think it makes a lot of sense why do companies go together and you look at it [TS]

00:46:42   from Yahoo's point of view and as an outsider a look at Yahoo and think [TS]

00:46:46   here's a company that nobody pays attention to any more and I think on [TS]

00:46:50   their news call this said that their average demographic is is getting older [TS]

00:46:53   and that's not good form for money so like you see this company kinda losing [TS]

00:46:59   relevance and and just like if Yahoo News Service [TS]

00:47:05   even talked about it nobody blogs about it and none of the geeks like us even [TS]

00:47:09   try it and so they they have to make drastic moves to get more relevance and [TS]

00:47:17   to get back on track [TS]

00:47:18   they also need the social network they did you know that Google has Google+ [TS]

00:47:22   which might or might not be actually used but they at least have it they have [TS]

00:47:26   database table somewhere with a lot of ideas and that's why they call [TS]

00:47:29   themselves users Facebook has itself having social really Xbox Live ok that's [TS]

00:47:39   something that's sort of sort of a few pieces here and there but Xbox Live is [TS]

00:47:45   not a piece that's full-fledged social but yeah a little bit I don't know why I [TS]

00:47:49   think it's a little bit different but OK [TS]

00:47:53   that they have some good pieces I think Yahoo need something like that and so [TS]

00:47:58   now the habit so you can look at all these things there's a lot of reasons [TS]

00:48:02   why these companies benefit from each other without even considering the money [TS]

00:48:06   aspect of how much they bought it for so much about it for I have no idea what is [TS]

00:48:11   based on you have no idea that's based on it doesn't really matter honestly [TS]

00:48:13   like it matters to the shareholders but it doesn't really matter to the world [TS]

00:48:17   you know how much you paid for it would be fun to see the slides though because [TS]

00:48:21   you know there is a slight it says we protect the value of our people over [TS]

00:48:24   this amount of times this amount of money so we feel that by his company [TS]

00:48:27   you're buying the future you know like you know this BS graphic explaining why [TS]

00:48:33   1.1 doing this the number is not one billion but you know all those are all [TS]

00:48:38   in all those grass like the along the x-axis the thing at the left edges like [TS]

00:48:43   the current and everything else is the future so just like projections of [TS]

00:48:47   fantastical future they may or may not come to pass will also keep in mind too [TS]

00:48:52   like there's a lot of value here not just you know there's value to Yahoo in [TS]

00:48:57   buying this particular social network site publishing thing because they [TS]

00:49:02   didn't have a social network and there aren't that many that are meaningfully [TS]

00:49:05   size that they can afford that's one big problem they have why they are they [TS]

00:49:09   really going to Tumblr one reason why I told him I might need to guide you in [TS]

00:49:12   particular to be the buyer gonna sell is the Yahoo is in this place of humility [TS]

00:49:19   and change and progress and I know David pretty well and David David is not [TS]

00:49:25   somebody who wants to be told what to do with this product constantly you know [TS]

00:49:29   he's gonna want his own say and from all the reports that sounds like you know he [TS]

00:49:33   Marissa Meyer see eye-to-eye lot and he got [TS]

00:49:36   you know he's locked into work for them for a little while and and and she's you [TS]

00:49:41   know she was apparently promising some kind of autonomy or at least you know [TS]

00:49:45   giving him a good good amount of authority so it matters like who buys [TS]

00:49:50   you but if you look at one of the reasons why why you might wanna Saudi [TS]

00:49:54   Yahoo instead of say Google it because Google has not shown that the very good [TS]

00:49:59   acquire and are so many things that go bump my Google and then either get [TS]

00:50:03   stagnated or shut down or the people get annoyed about internal stuff and they [TS]

00:50:08   leave so you know if it matters who buys you and if you care about your future [TS]

00:50:14   happiness and the future health of your product you gotta make sure you sell it [TS]

00:50:17   to somebody who works right you gotta make sure that you sell to somebody who [TS]

00:50:22   you trust to to be decent to work with and to do well but the product you can't [TS]

00:50:28   sell to anybody willing to pay a good price [TS]

00:50:30   Yahoo would have been much better off tho buying the Tumblr as it existed [TS]

00:50:35   several years ago like you do you really want you really bad idea is to buy the [TS]

00:50:39   hip new things just as its kind of breaking like as I almost feel like [TS]

00:50:44   Tumblr not the time to time has passed but tumblr has already gotten to the [TS]

00:50:48   point where you need to spend a billion to get it right because if you look at [TS]

00:50:51   the graphical user wrote you would really love to about it before the [TS]

00:50:54   little needy and in the graph right then you feel like you got in on something on [TS]

00:51:01   the ground floor and it just takes off while you have it where the worst-case [TS]

00:51:03   scenario tumblr is it's massively popular now it was a big thing everyone [TS]

00:51:08   has a temper is really popular and then just like tapers off like you bought at [TS]

00:51:11   the top of the market [TS]

00:51:12   draw something that I mean that was that was an example of being by a terrible [TS]

00:51:18   acquire that everybody hates that screws everything up that's why we can laugh at [TS]

00:51:21   it because like who cares if Zynga loses money like this horrible people that [TS]

00:51:28   companies like nobody cares if I mean it like in this deal like you had to think [TS]

00:51:33   in this deal of marcos you know it's taken tumblr side would you rather be [TS]

00:51:38   Yahoo that now on tumblr would you rather be the investors are employees of [TS]

00:51:41   tumblr you too much rather be just as hard for me to look at this in any way [TS]

00:51:45   tumblr people got the better half of the steel but see I don't know I really do [TS]

00:51:50   think that I think Yahoo needed this to my I think both companies are doing [TS]

00:51:55   quite well as a result of this but like Yahoo now has to deliver whereas tumblr [TS]

00:51:59   like made an amazing product they got really big they got sold on trade terms [TS]

00:52:04   of birds seem to be very favorable to them and like a very success or even [TS]

00:52:08   matter what happens from now on and Yahoo it remains to be seen like their [TS]

00:52:12   future is still to be written the pressure is now on them to us they said [TS]

00:52:15   not screwed up that's certainly true but you know just looking at like who got [TS]

00:52:21   their money's worth here looks like a pretty pretty good mutual benefit anyway [TS]

00:52:26   speaking of business terms actually pretty cool this is a sponsor is Windows [TS]

00:52:35   Azure mobile services now because you're all probably nerds like us you've [TS]

00:52:40   probably heard this advertising other nerdy podcasts and other blogs but this [TS]

00:52:44   is this is interesting Windows Azure mobile services by Microsoft guests [TS]

00:52:48   Microsoft make it faster and easier to build a cloud powered iOS app so it's [TS]

00:52:56   basically a cloud platform you write the code in Java Script actually it's [TS]

00:53:01   believed to have a node NodeJS interface as well as I believe a couple of [TS]

00:53:06   languages sorry about not knowing that that wasn't part of the script but I [TS]

00:53:12   heard it was pretty cool they take care of the glue code necessary for storing [TS]

00:53:17   data in the cloud and authenticating users via Facebook or Twitter and even [TS]

00:53:21   sending Apple's push notifications and if you've written push notification code [TS]

00:53:26   and haven't having to having to deal with all those various tickets and [TS]

00:53:30   everything you'll know that this is this is great to have someone else do this [TS]

00:53:33   for you so anyway mobile services you can I pushed your app it's a single [TS]

00:53:38   command post are a pianist dots and you can see the API pretty awesome you know [TS]

00:53:45   you shouldn't need to build your own massive server infrastructure if you [TS]

00:53:49   don't want to you know it's nice to have options we've talked about this in the [TS]

00:53:52   show in the past and one of the people's blood by this before it was talked about [TS]

00:53:55   is Brent Simmons and Brent Simmons actually is [TS]

00:53:58   kind of a spokesperson for Windows Azure mobile services he he did a few videos [TS]

00:54:04   for them you can see if you go to the site go to Windows Azure dot com slash [TS]

00:54:09   iOS and you can go see Brandt talking in videos showing how to do this and what [TS]

00:54:15   this can do it's pretty awesome you know it's it's we think of Microsoft is being [TS]

00:54:20   this company that we as Mac people can kind of ignore but they're good they're [TS]

00:54:25   getting to the server business in the service of business pretty well and this [TS]

00:54:28   is worth looking at I i I tell myself it looks pretty interesting so anyway if [TS]

00:54:35   you looking to build an iOS app or the connection at you already have to the [TS]

00:54:38   cloud [TS]

00:54:39   take a look at as your mobile services you can start today for free so good a [TS]

00:54:43   Windows Azure dot com slash iOS and thanks again for sponsoring the show [TS]

00:54:48   used to be like when these things like ec2 and other services first came out [TS]

00:54:55   and I was like oh well this is great you know I won't have to setup man serving I [TS]

00:54:58   can try this thing with people who are ya but if you ever wanna be like a real [TS]

00:55:01   player on the internet you have to do all this yourself now the real players [TS]

00:55:05   use easy to write and now like I was just reading you know some Twitter [TS]

00:55:09   something saying the netflixs something like twenty thousand ec2 instances like [TS]

00:55:13   there's no there's no one like you know you got to play with the big boys [TS]

00:55:17   Netflix is a big boy like a third of all internet traffic and something that was [TS]

00:55:22   never an easy to like that you know back in the nineties you Marc Andreessen or [TS]

00:55:27   whatever [TS]

00:55:27   saying like in the future we're all going to buy computing services are like [TS]

00:55:31   you know i i at a retail and biamby compute and storage in the cloud in like [TS]

00:55:37   Yeah Yeah Yeah right and then like without us noticing that it's basically [TS]

00:55:40   happens on things like Windows Azure and everything like I think a lot of people [TS]

00:55:45   who are least people my age look at it like that's fine and everything but like [TS]

00:55:49   I really want my my iOS a position to be like a serious apps are going to do this [TS]

00:55:55   myself because you know those things are just people who are just starting out no [TS]

00:55:58   like the biggest companies in the world are using these type of retail [TS]

00:56:03   infrastructure services [TS]

00:56:05   if they're good enough for Netflix believe me they're gonna figure you're [TS]

00:56:09   feeling a lot of this year we talked a lot about this stuff and development [TS]

00:56:14   whenever technology is gonna move up the stack and get further away from the bare [TS]

00:56:19   metal and in some kind of way you see it with language is going from from [TS]

00:56:23   assembly to see to higher level stuff and memory manage stuff and as always [TS]

00:56:28   these arguments about this new thing is only for you know X small segment or or [TS]

00:56:34   only for you know new people to programming or whatever and then you see [TS]

00:56:39   those things always slowly become a hipster because like you know it [TS]

00:56:43   actually looking at you start realizing well these days it really isn't worth it [TS]

00:56:47   for almost anybody to write assembly language and and you know something [TS]

00:56:51   server side stuff you see like it's already almost not worth it frame by [TS]

00:56:55   Article ok server to actually unit actually buy a physical server and put [TS]

00:56:59   it somewhere like that that's worth doing for almost nobody and even [TS]

00:57:04   dedicated servers now I mean I've been a huge dedicated server fan for years and [TS]

00:57:08   years and years just like you know just leasing a dedicated server somewhere [TS]

00:57:11   that's that's meant the harbor is maintained by somebody else even that [TS]

00:57:14   though is really hard to justify today cos VPS are so good and cheap and now [TS]

00:57:20   you have the other platforms you have as your you have things like Heroku for [TS]

00:57:23   reals and and and your PC to a look at a lower level and things that are built on [TS]

00:57:29   ec2 like I think her but you know you have all these days new iCloud at [TS]

00:57:34   platforms where you don't even have to manage server instances anymore you [TS]

00:57:38   don't have too many virtual servers anymore there's even these things are [TS]

00:57:41   getting abstracted away and and it's it's gone way beyond like tinkering [TS]

00:57:46   hobbyist territory to the point where as johnnie said there's a lot of serious [TS]

00:57:49   stuff that's built on this and and it's you know it's it's no longer just for [TS]

00:57:54   newbies to programming but it happens to be really nice if you are correct it [TS]

00:58:00   seems to me like with every movement up the stack all the old-timers say you [TS]

00:58:06   whippersnapper zand not having to worry about memory management oh you're a [TS]

00:58:10   bunch of wimps and then eventually everyone realizes you know what [TS]

00:58:14   working memory kinda sucks [TS]

00:58:16   and I don't do that and so this is just another example of that and as her in [TS]

00:58:23   particular group were posted [TS]

00:58:25   linked list post earlier tonight about how if you think heavily paraphrasing [TS]

00:58:32   but if you think that Microsoft needs to go forward and it needs to do so in [TS]

00:58:37   arguably two categories one is services and one is devices will you could easily [TS]

00:58:43   argue that Azure is the services component and as a hopefully decent [TS]

00:58:49   segue into our next topic [TS]

00:58:51   the Xbox is very likely going to be the device that brings Microsoft into the [TS]

00:58:56   post-pc era so which are you talking about the Xbox one Xbox 360 or the Xbox [TS]

00:59:03   one exactly I'm talking about the good one thats 359 less than the previous one [TS]

00:59:11   but it's still good in fact that supposed to be better I like despite [TS]

00:59:15   what john thinks I think it was a great system [TS]

00:59:18   the first Xbox the Ferrari love for her to call the Xbox you could have a more [TS]

00:59:26   enjoyable for you to that do you wanna talk about the Wii U's abysmal [TS]

00:59:31   performance at all but that hasn't sold any of them like they're having major [TS]

00:59:37   problems over there but nobody else I think I think maybe like a typical [TS]

00:59:42   actors item boy I did notice a in John's living room that not only to have the [TS]

00:59:50   two wheels of course still set up because I believe you mentioned [TS]

00:59:53   hypercritical second last episode while you're keeping the old way for some kind [TS]

00:59:56   of control issue but then on top of your TV you had both censor bars perfectly [TS]

01:00:00   stacked on top of each other centered exactly yeah but it would be nice if you [TS]

01:00:06   could share them but as tagged me throw off the balance like the better I was [TS]

01:00:10   just one and deal with it [TS]

01:00:12   first world problems II you intended to build the wrong thing so it's a bummer [TS]

01:00:20   for them [TS]

01:00:20   but the one thing to things and tender has going for it [TS]

01:00:25   1 it is owned by people who are not history and foolish and like it or not [TS]

01:00:35   the windows like greedy shareholders who is one bad quarter it's time to sell the [TS]

01:00:38   whole company and start making you know fried dough instead or something right [TS]

01:00:42   and to have a lot of money in the bank I don't know if an internal privately held [TS]

01:00:46   some of the chatroom can tell me but that's not like you know it you s [TS]

01:00:49   companies we're like an apple for instance oh my god you're province did [TS]

01:00:53   you grow at the rate you said they're going to and now you're doomed and you [TS]

01:00:56   need to change something everyone panics and everything and they get slammed [TS]

01:00:59   right that's not the way it works I mean if that was the Nintendo would have sold [TS]

01:01:04   to a larger company years ago if they thought it that way but they don't [TS]

01:01:08   they're sort of you know very proud in it for the long haul not likely [TS]

01:01:11   acquisition targets and have money in the bank from all the good years so [TS]

01:01:16   hopefully they weather the storm [TS]

01:01:19   do terribly this generation of consoles and come out the other side with some [TS]

01:01:24   better ideas so what do you think about the Xbox won the second Xbox won the [TS]

01:01:30   deklerk's 123 but you can say it's the third Xbox Xbox 360 Xbox lenny is easy [TS]

01:01:39   very easy really you can plan a plan called Xbox to than just out someone [TS]

01:01:45   showed like you know it was being searched google image search of whatever [TS]

01:01:49   her Xbox so any and all you see pictures of marcos beloved bloated black and [TS]

01:01:54   green at sustain a loss of what I do that's what comes up because like I said [TS]

01:01:59   you're trying to text box one well that's the thing right now actually so [TS]

01:02:03   don't get him started don't do it man don't do it for framing for framing of [TS]

01:02:07   the stuff like you know the future of Microsoft thing devices and services [TS]

01:02:13   the only reason that framing comes up I think it's done so badly with its [TS]

01:02:20   desktop windows [TS]

01:02:22   and you know and the mobile space like forever because that's why logo well [TS]

01:02:27   okay so Microsoft has shown that they kind of people losing interest the [TS]

01:02:30   desktop in general and so Microsoft strength there is no longer interesting [TS]

01:02:35   and and mobile Microsoft has failed for years and continues not to get traction [TS]

01:02:39   despite the fact that they had a reasonably good product right so it's [TS]

01:02:42   like looking elsewhere ok well nevermind about that stuff [TS]

01:02:46   Microsoft 101 else if you got that might be good for those those are good and as [TS]

01:02:51   your that's really good you know it's like the younger products that are [TS]

01:02:54   actually doing well [TS]

01:02:56   pushed to the forefront mostly by their complete failure to make a crack in the [TS]

01:03:01   mobile market and the diminishment of the stock market so that's I guess a [TS]

01:03:07   positive spin on it was the future the company but I see it as a negative it's [TS]

01:03:11   like a man shouldn't shouldn't they be read in their slugging it out with [TS]

01:03:16   Android and iOS instead of like a distant third over if they are that's [TS]

01:03:20   kind of sad and depressing but do we know to go back to the moment do we know [TS]

01:03:25   that as your isn't making money like Xbox I think it's probably safe to say [TS]

01:03:30   that make good money off that but is as you're making money or his xbox Windows [TS]

01:03:35   and Office basically carrying all of Microsoft Azure looks like an investment [TS]

01:03:40   kinda like easy to wear in the beginning like you're investing in the future like [TS]

01:03:43   this business of retailing services is going to be a good one and by all [TS]

01:03:48   accounts a user is a good product and people like it and it is providing [TS]

01:03:52   something that that mark is not that crowded how many people have the ability [TS]

01:03:57   to provide what has your provides you can't just start to start up in your [TS]

01:04:00   garage provide what they what they did was it especially their case likely [TS]

01:04:03   require such tight integration of like they control the OS and like the the [TS]

01:04:07   metal platform that we have it all together and I need data centers need [TS]

01:04:10   all that stuff [TS]

01:04:12   Amazon bootstrap thing by having a very successful very very high revenues not [TS]

01:04:17   profit online store and let them build easy to use it as your I'm sure has been [TS]

01:04:23   funded by all the profits from office [TS]

01:04:26   places Microsoft make some money but it's a good investment in the future so [TS]

01:04:29   I don't think microsoft's logo man when is that going to make money I think they [TS]

01:04:33   are just like just make the product better get people to use it because this [TS]

01:04:36   is clearly a thing that people want and very few other people are providing it [TS]

01:04:40   so we can make a good product in the space and only two or three other people [TS]

01:04:43   in space we feel good about it so I think they're okay with that [TS]

01:04:49   so is the Xbox 1221 xbox Xbox is that any good does that excite you at all or [TS]

01:04:57   not so much it's kind of boring that all of the predictions about what the [TS]

01:05:02   current generation of console would be came out to be true but you know that's [TS]

01:05:06   the day that's the world where everything is and we write stuff so it's [TS]

01:05:12   exactly the box that run thought it would be got this text everyone thought [TS]

01:05:15   it would have this speculation of all why does it have the specs like way back [TS]

01:05:22   when asked why does it have a gig of ram when the ps4 supposedly has foreign some [TS]

01:05:27   people thought the ps4 was going down for before the actual announcement that [TS]

01:05:31   it also has a well the reason that the new Xbox is going to have eight is [TS]

01:05:35   because it's not just gonna be a game console their own also wanted to grant [TS]

01:05:38   all sorts of home entertainment TV time functionality in it and that totally [TS]

01:05:43   made sense because Xbox it's not the most popular Netflix ps3 is actually [TS]

01:05:49   more popular than a bit like Microsoft likes to sell you stuff through the Xbox [TS]

01:05:53   it also you can buy movies music and also some other things I believe you can [TS]

01:05:58   watch or not flex like it is it's it's a gateway to do things that are not gaming [TS]

01:06:03   so it made perfect sense that Microsoft's next console would go [TS]

01:06:07   further in that direction is why wouldn't they like they have a popular [TS]

01:06:10   service to people like that they can sell you things through and you know it [TS]

01:06:15   and i also have to play games they would clearly go forward that's our place as [TS]

01:06:19   it turned out both the ps4 and Xbox one and the same amount of RAM but as [TS]

01:06:25   predicted the Xbox one does all kinds of TV stuff you know [TS]

01:06:29   integrated TV experience with Skype are relying on the side of your television [TS]

01:06:33   and [TS]

01:06:34   being able to have an electronic program guide and also those things and that's [TS]

01:06:38   what they're like this whatever this was press conference and that's what they're [TS]

01:06:41   promoting they said we'll tell you more about the games at e3 which is the [TS]

01:06:44   gaming focus conference today we're gonna tell you about all these great TV [TS]

01:06:48   features and they did and I mean if you look at the thing that looks like an [TS]

01:06:52   HDTV like it's a big rectangular square looking thing it does not look like a [TS]

01:06:58   dedicated gaming system because it really is and it's a game console it [TS]

01:07:02   also does a whole bunch of other things as well I'm kind of happy that the US [TS]

01:07:07   now phase of console gaming is over I'm hoping is over where everyone had to [TS]

01:07:12   make their console shaped like some weird thing because boxes you can stack [TS]

01:07:16   on top of each other but everything is shaped like a snail you can find [TS]

01:07:19   someplace to wage of things in like it sideways or vertically you can't put 23 [TS]

01:07:23   sixties 360 and Playstation 3 and Wii is kind of Starbucks blonde top choice and [TS]

01:07:31   hopefully the ps4 is also rectangular shape than me on a fighting chance of [TS]

01:07:35   sticking things in our home entertainment centers but for the most [TS]

01:07:39   part it's because it's what everyone predicted now it's kind of like a [TS]

01:07:43   wait-and-see type thing ok well can you sell millions and millions of these [TS]

01:07:46   things because you can and it works as advertised [TS]

01:07:50   now you have a special game console and a way to sell stuff to people throughout [TS]

01:07:55   the game and that sort of the ball in his court was ok well go you tried to do [TS]

01:08:00   Google TV and it's up to know about it so tough luck on that Apple you keep [TS]

01:08:04   this is rumors about television stuff and you have Apple TV but so far you [TS]

01:08:09   know there's no absolute at [TS]

01:08:11   and the things you sell through it are you suffering from the iTunes Store but [TS]

01:08:14   natural experts not quite the same thing as it could be you know where you take [TS]

01:08:19   an entire television provider program guide and you know being a gateway for [TS]

01:08:23   the Xbox juan has HDMI input like that is the if you had to express its [TS]

01:08:29   philosophy in terms of one hardware future that's what it would be doesn't [TS]

01:08:33   just send a signal to your television where you can see the out but it takes [TS]

01:08:35   input wants to be the center of your television watching experience did you [TS]

01:08:42   see the supercut that somebody did of the press conference where it was like a [TS]

01:08:47   minute and a half long and it was just every time I said the word TV or [TS]

01:08:50   television that it was every time they said sports I believe and then was every [TS]

01:08:55   time they said call of duty and it lasted like a minute and a half and it [TS]

01:08:57   was hysterical I trust trying to watch the actual thing before so the supercut [TS]

01:09:03   yeah like if you're a gamer your watch it or tell me about the games right but [TS]

01:09:11   you know Microsoft clearly thinks that it's not the gaming part of it is it is [TS]

01:09:18   only perhaps equally important to the nine-game parts of it and from boxes [TS]

01:09:26   connected TV the Xbox one comes maybe 50% of the way to what I've always [TS]

01:09:34   wanted in the box and no no one will ever make any sense economically for [TS]

01:09:39   them but it would be great for me as my on everest box where I wanted to take [TS]

01:09:43   all the millions of places that entertainment can come to me send them [TS]

01:09:48   all into this one box and provide me with a single unified interface to all [TS]

01:09:52   those things so I don't have to change fifty different in putting his seven [TS]

01:09:56   different modes and deal with all these different services I just want something [TS]

01:09:59   to paper over that mess for me actually goes home theater receivers almost do [TS]

01:10:04   that they don't paper over they just provide your way to automatically switch [TS]

01:10:08   inputs into a guy I wanted to surprise you know a single unified really nice [TS]

01:10:12   interface to hide the fact that these are totally destroy service is owned by [TS]

01:10:16   competing companies that hate each other [TS]

01:10:18   have varying degrees of competence and in creating their hardware and their [TS]

01:10:21   software just hide all that for me because like you know you want something [TS]

01:10:25   better probably going to be great if you didn't have a different sources for this [TS]

01:10:28   crap in the Dena stock like okay well we can't solve that everything all still [TS]

01:10:32   sucks and is it busy wires behind me but they all go into this one awesome box [TS]

01:10:36   and makes it look beautiful in Google TV try to do that but socked and Xbox one [TS]

01:10:41   does happen it like it tries to say okay well you and watch TV 3d TV in fact your [TS]

01:10:48   cable box and put it into the Xbox one and just talk to your Xbox one or use [TS]

01:10:53   the remote in your phone to Riverview know just what you want to watch it will [TS]

01:10:56   switch to it that's good you're trying to unify the world of crap by Hal I have [TS]

01:11:00   a cable thing that I have to pay for I pay for FiOS TV and go in the back of [TS]

01:11:04   Xbox one and it lets me control watching TV but no DVR functionality in the Xbox [TS]

01:11:09   one so if you want something that's not on right now what if I believe you are [TS]

01:11:14   watching TV DVR back into playing now you don't really have control the DVR [TS]

01:11:20   through Xbox Mon and tonight we have two inputs for life television and the new [TS]

01:11:24   record stuff [TS]

01:11:25   flex their consuming an application but what are you using different strings [TS]

01:11:29   Amazon streaming service what about Hulu Plus like they're not it's not Xbox one [TS]

01:11:36   is not I'm never sits a picky eater it will take a couple of select input to [TS]

01:11:40   unify them a particular way but I can't imagine anyone who's in the market for [TS]

01:11:44   an expired one specially gonna buy them lunch who is not still going to be [TS]

01:11:47   switching inputs to get things done they want to get done so it's a step in the [TS]

01:11:51   right direction but the lack of time shifting in particular makes it a [TS]

01:11:56   non-starter for me like it's not going to unify my life [TS]

01:11:59   the thing that struck me about what you just said is that when you're describing [TS]

01:12:04   this on numerous box that consumes all these different services for a flash I [TS]

01:12:09   felt like you were describing the Apple TV and I know I'm oversimplifying and I [TS]

01:12:13   know Apple TV doesn't consume traditional terrestrial TV and it [TS]

01:12:18   doesn't can see in a dozen play games or arbitrary absent you may want to do but [TS]

01:12:22   to a large degree I almost feel like the Apple TV is trying to do exactly that if [TS]

01:12:27   you look at the fact that it has Netflix and Hulu Plus it has MLB TV if I'm not [TS]

01:12:31   mistaken [TS]

01:12:32   as NHL TV it has all these different things and it's one interface that you [TS]

01:12:38   know that that will expose off them in and a quarter of the stuff because I [TS]

01:12:43   call ya my television that i watch comes through my stupid bundled Cape Coral [TS]

01:12:49   Gables even those files a subscription I pay for like all these premium channels [TS]

01:12:54   a paper HBO pay for Showtime and all that stuff and you know they have him [TS]

01:12:59   put a video input it is merely an internet plan that's what i'm talking [TS]

01:13:02   bout like well the real solution is not to have all the programming spread all [TS]

01:13:06   over the place and have these stupid cable TV cartel bundling deals that just [TS]

01:13:11   force you to have all these channels like yes that is the real solution the [TS]

01:13:14   resolution is to get rid of all these huge entrenched interest with you know [TS]

01:13:18   infrastructure contracts but like it's not happening it's hard to get rid of [TS]

01:13:22   them so in the interim while we're waiting for the world to realign it [TS]

01:13:26   would be nice if someone to make something that could would just tackled [TS]

01:13:32   the incredibly hard problem taking all these things and unifying them and [TS]

01:13:36   providing a better experience you know I maybe maybe that's never gonna happen [TS]

01:13:40   maybe maybe the Apple TV is the only possible play it's like it's not on the [TS]

01:13:44   internet you deal with yourself tonight will try to bring it through an Xbox one [TS]

01:13:48   is like okay well we'll we'll have our under that services are going to tell [TS]

01:13:51   you and will resell you know Netflix and every 30 but I don't think they have a [TS]

01:13:54   deal Hulu I don't think they have a deal with Amazon and they'll take in your [TS]

01:13:59   cable boxes output but I don't think they have any control of your DVR and [TS]

01:14:03   I'm not sure how the integrated you have a DVR with your cable system and it's [TS]

01:14:06   it's just one more complication [TS]

01:14:09   you know it's not it's not a simplification of anyone's life I don't [TS]

01:14:13   think especially with all these gestures and voice controls so you're saying is [TS]

01:14:20   you want a company to take something that's extraordinarily complex make it [TS]

01:14:28   really really simple and make it pretty do we know any companies that may be [TS]

01:14:32   interested in [TS]

01:14:33   back in 2005 r6 unlike boy you know Apple in a TiVo is really falling down [TS]

01:14:40   I would love it if you would make something like this but then Steve Jobs [TS]

01:14:43   going to the All Things D conference and I think it was 2008 or something and [TS]

01:14:46   someone in the audience asked a similar question and he said flat out we're not [TS]

01:14:50   gonna make that thing because the business model makes no sense and I [TS]

01:14:54   agree with him his reasoning was virtually sound like this the reason [TS]

01:14:57   this thing doesn't exist one super hard and too because like you can't usne ray [TS]

01:15:05   can't be done with all these cable companies are not going to give you [TS]

01:15:08   their programming and and the cable companies by the programming and his big [TS]

01:15:12   bundles that you can't afford to match the price of if you're going to sell [TS]

01:15:15   this thing to people I guess it's just can't be done in terms of the the money [TS]

01:15:20   so it's like well why would we ever make that we would lose money on it and it [TS]

01:15:23   would be really hard to to make work right and we would be basically trying [TS]

01:15:27   to usurp the value from companies hate us and have the ability to screw us by [TS]

01:15:31   changing how they do things you know that's why the box doesn't exist right [TS]

01:15:35   that's why TV is a big mess that's why we're all hoping for something better [TS]

01:15:39   and so this Xbox thing is I move in that direction but I don't buy the [TS]

01:15:46   simplification they were trying to sell them like that's the real reason bizzle [TS]

01:15:50   won an Xbox 1 I'm assuming this because in some meeting when the talking about [TS]

01:15:54   the name in like well what a crazy guys but [TS]

01:15:58   box one ever said what do you mean the first Xbox people called it now just [TS]

01:16:01   listen one box that would unify your entire television experience right [TS]

01:16:06   video conferencing browse the internet and Netflix play games watch live TV one [TS]

01:16:11   box does everything that's where I assume the one is coming [TS]

01:16:14   finish watching the press conference thing that I something to lean on that [TS]

01:16:19   and it falls short of fulfilling a dream it is not one box stores and you will [TS]

01:16:23   still be changing input just because the world of content you watching television [TS]

01:16:29   too so byzantine that it's almost impossible for one box to do everything [TS]

01:16:33   for you [TS]

01:16:34   yeah I guess the point I'm driving out is even though it doesn't make business [TS]

01:16:39   sense to potentially get an antagonistic relationship with content owners it [TS]

01:16:44   doesn't make business sense to try to conquer all these disparate systems [TS]

01:16:47   on the other hand it's a company like Apple that is used to selling what most [TS]

01:16:52   would consider expensive products and if you if Apple said to you John for a [TS]

01:16:58   thousand bucks or 1500 bucks we will make all those devices the TiVo in in [TS]

01:17:04   the Netflix and all that they will all be consumed by this one box and by the [TS]

01:17:08   way you can run apps on it so no you may not be able to play Halo on it but [TS]

01:17:12   you'll be able to play you know real racing on it would would you pony up [TS]

01:17:16   $1,000 $1,500 for that and i know im over simple question I mean I don't [TS]

01:17:21   think Apple could actually do like everything about what happens really [TS]

01:17:25   good at Apple's really good at editing what's possible deleting options [TS]

01:17:31   saying no to things to make something that's overall grade but limited in some [TS]

01:17:38   way and those limits make it great or unable to be great in other ways with [TS]

01:17:44   the TV business the TV industry whatever you know whatever this is if you say no [TS]

01:17:49   to anything you're out you know your irrelevant and and so imagine you know [TS]

01:17:54   if you have a cable company to launch without supporting a spin like they're [TS]

01:17:59   just like there's nothing that there's no way to succeed right and so like [TS]

01:18:03   people aren't used to not having everything with TV most people have [TS]

01:18:10   cable TV and they have a billion channels and if they want anything else [TS]

01:18:15   to it they just plug it in and that's fine if Apple were to come together and [TS]

01:18:19   say here's a box that does eighty percent of that no one's gonna behind it [TS]

01:18:25   or people already will buy it but only people who were you know who want just [TS]

01:18:30   happened that's that's what they already sell its Apple TV that's the play of [TS]

01:18:34   your Apple as you want to shift you want to shift people away you want to shift [TS]

01:18:37   their value away from these cable packages like cable cable companies have [TS]

01:18:41   nots not so much monopolies black duopoly is maybe one or two choices for [TS]

01:18:45   companies and have all this money and infrastructure and they're hard to [TS]

01:18:48   displace but if you can [TS]

01:18:50   their worst nightmare is to become dumb pipes for Internet connections and [TS]

01:18:53   that's what Apple wants to companies like 12 shift the value away from those [TS]

01:18:57   premiums [TS]

01:18:58   and towards content that's available over the internet because the internet [TS]

01:19:02   you know it's free for everybody or whatever it's not tied up with these [TS]

01:19:06   dunno so if we can just get like a house of cards Netflix person if we could have [TS]

01:19:11   Netflix in our box then we've got house of cards not popular content right and [TS]

01:19:15   HBO that's you know they can get HBO Go and finally we can airplane to our [TS]

01:19:19   television but still you need a cable subscription to get in like they're [TS]

01:19:23   trying to pull the value out of the hands of the cable companies into the [TS]

01:19:27   realm that they control rather than trying to say okay well we accept the [TS]

01:19:31   fact that right now cable companies have this valuable content and you have to [TS]

01:19:34   deal with watching one thing one place one thing either so let's try to make a [TS]

01:19:37   box in front of a market that's not the Apple philosophy philosophy is not just [TS]

01:19:41   a big mess and we will try to hide that from you it's we're gonna new world that [TS]

01:19:46   isn't a mess and we're just gonna go there and it will be up there headed you [TS]

01:19:51   and not a lot of people follow us but hopefully we'll be able to slowly drawn [TS]

01:19:55   the value out of that ecosystem and then one day care becomes a wake up and [TS]

01:19:59   realize hey wait a second if if we don't have a house of cards over the popular [TS]

01:20:04   Netflix thing is we're screwed and people don't want to buy cable package [TS]

01:20:08   because I say hey what about the popular show that I go but that's only available [TS]

01:20:12   for some internet TV thing I like it's a battle between same thing with a cap on [TS]

01:20:16   the phone carriers like every month every month the carriers who suck at [TS]

01:20:20   everything to be dumb pipes acceptable carriers themselves right so cell [TS]

01:20:25   carriers cable companies none of them want to be like utilities were you just [TS]

01:20:30   so we just bring you the Internet over a pipe and every other company entire [TS]

01:20:33   world this please just be a company that brings a fascination over dumb pipe and [TS]

01:20:36   let everyone else competes content with absent channels and stuff like that so [TS]

01:20:41   in this tragedy transition stage we just all suffer and I don't know who's going [TS]

01:20:46   to win that battle but I really hope it's not the carriers and cable [TS]

01:20:48   companies gunbattle a spokesman for a second one conversation I'd love to have [TS]

01:20:54   is is just the timing of this and and kinda generational aspects of this will [TS]

01:20:59   give you look the the Xbox 360 came out in 2005 and if you think about what kind [TS]

01:21:07   of world this was in 2005 you know think about [TS]

01:21:11   as I don't put it like that was before tumblr started so it seems like you know [TS]

01:21:17   it's been around for a while but the Xbox 360 has been around longer and that [TS]

01:21:23   would be for the iPhone came out that was before the entire smartphone [TS]

01:21:27   revolution like smartphones existed but only rich businesspeople had them [TS]

01:21:31   because they're really expensive and they sucked so that was so long ago that [TS]

01:21:36   the system was envisioned this is before Netflix streaming existed before almost [TS]

01:21:43   any streaming service for video existed I think certainly before May people used [TS]

01:21:47   them and it was before all these massive changes in how we entertain ourselves [TS]

01:21:55   how we get our video content how and where we watch videos and play games and [TS]

01:22:00   that's what we've been using all this time and when you know what will be [TS]

01:22:03   using [TS]

01:22:04   that's that's that's the game console type that's what that whole game comes [TS]

01:22:07   have been designed for a long time and Microsoft has been pretty good about [TS]

01:22:13   jumping on stuff with the Xbox they did they need to jump on quickly and well [TS]

01:22:19   like Xbox Live was the first good online place service for video game consoles [TS]

01:22:24   and might still be the only good one I don't know I don't know if the place is [TS]

01:22:29   one of the better but certainly Xbox Live is really good and people loved it [TS]

01:22:33   and people use it all the time and so and then you know once once you get [TS]

01:22:38   netflix on devices streaming the Xbox was on that and they they had that very [TS]

01:22:44   early on and it is very very common anything about you know how people are [TS]

01:22:49   are entertained themselves now how many people are are getting these things [TS]

01:22:53   using the 360 as a Netflix streaming device is an extremely inefficient use [TS]

01:23:00   of the hardware and you know said they were hearing the big fans and strong god [TS]

01:23:05   knows how many water slowly burning itself out secrets the red ring of death [TS]

01:23:09   michael has to replace that are you sue them all these this this whole mess of [TS]

01:23:13   of using something of that power level to do something relatively simple like [TS]

01:23:18   what Netflix's the people sitting there for hours a night doing that and so [TS]

01:23:23   obviously like [TS]

01:23:24   the previous type of console was designed in a way that doesn't really [TS]

01:23:28   match with how people do things in this day and age and this has been a very [TS]

01:23:33   long console generation so it seems like you know nintendo's with the Wii U [TS]

01:23:40   attempted to modernize it a little bit and just didn't really go far enough or [TS]

01:23:45   just didn't do it well enough for a compelling enough package I think sony [TS]

01:23:50   has done pretty well with the ps3 and it looks like the ps4 is really interesting [TS]

01:23:56   but we don't have a good execute yet I would say Microsoft looks like they're [TS]

01:24:00   in the best position to take the next eight years and actually have this [TS]

01:24:06   console be strong be relevant be well-liked be well thought I would say [TS]

01:24:11   looking at these three day we don't even know that much but the ps4 yet but just [TS]

01:24:15   looking at like like for instance there is there is great hardware analysis [TS]

01:24:20   today on on Anandtech international as well about the Xbox one announcement and [TS]

01:24:28   then what it means in there compared to ps4 announced hardware and it looks like [TS]

01:24:32   in general the Xbox one will have a less GPU power but will then also almost [TS]

01:24:40   definitely runway cooler and quieter as a result the thing about that the power [TS]

01:24:46   you suggest that the Xbox one is meant to be turned on all the time exactly [TS]

01:24:53   right and so they wanted to have lower sort of idle power whereas the ps4 is [TS]

01:24:58   still for the most part of pure gaming console and ps4 has a super low power [TS]

01:25:03   mode where it looks like it's basically off kind of like power nap on a Mac but [TS]

01:25:06   it still does not like download updates in the background stock so the ps4 usage [TS]

01:25:10   pattern as you go to use a u-turn on you do stuff you're trying to quote unquote [TS]

01:25:14   off and it's not really off but it's like basically completely dead silent no [TS]

01:25:18   fans anything like that and that's it sort of mode to be like you know the [TS]

01:25:22   overall power usage I think for UPS Store will be lower because you have it [TS]

01:25:25   in that take off most of the time whereas the Xbox one is procedures be on [TS]

01:25:30   all the time like [TS]

01:25:32   non-union time the television is on that thing is on because you're watching your [TS]

01:25:35   television through it so it can't be like the ps4 where it's in some super [TS]

01:25:40   duper low-power modes always gotta be on and some state in both of these things [TS]

01:25:43   as the Anandtech article said you are made with modern system on a chip set up [TS]

01:25:47   our getting the GPU is about to turn off execution units in cars that are not [TS]

01:25:51   running so they should all have much better kind of not idle power but no [TS]

01:25:55   power when they're not being asked to play the Xbox one had that had has kind [TS]

01:25:59   of like mid-level thing where it has this stripped-down OS 44 lower power [TS]

01:26:04   stuff like watching streaming video and and I think that's that's kind of an [TS]

01:26:09   acknowledgement that the way people use these things really often these days is [TS]

01:26:14   not for playing games for hours and turning it off and that's it it's like [TS]

01:26:18   maybe playing game for little bit but then every night watching an hour of [TS]

01:26:22   Netflix like that and use case now that I feel like it's really really smart for [TS]

01:26:28   Microsoft to be optimizing for that and Sony is like Sony's backer mode seems [TS]

01:26:32   like it's more for downloading game content it was like that's the thing is [TS]

01:26:36   basically off at that point the chips at work where is the Xbox on the whole [TS]

01:26:41   system on a chip is powered up in the things on its running it's running the [TS]

01:26:44   20 S plus the hypervisor and everything all the time and at the game OSU not [TS]

01:26:48   playing game to game us not doing anything interesting there but it's all [TS]

01:26:51   you know everything is powered up and running [TS]

01:26:54   you're just relying on the fact that you can shut down like six of the eight [TS]

01:26:57   chorus of that currently being used and if you're not doing anything with the [TS]

01:27:00   GPU most of that is an idle state as well so you're getting here [TS]

01:27:03   your power down but it's not the same as the ps4 [TS]

01:27:06   hillary Adams billion armchair presenting some of the little wimpy chip [TS]

01:27:10   on the motherboard that runs and does the little background something i think [TS]

01:27:13   is basically off I don't know how I feel like you know time will tell but I feel [TS]

01:27:20   like history will look back on the Xbox one's desires being smarter than the ps4 [TS]

01:27:25   is designed for people actually use these things as like someone said on [TS]

01:27:29   Twitter today or maybe not a chronicle it basically depends on whether you [TS]

01:27:32   think the the console for high-performance the market [TS]

01:27:37   high-performance game consoles has peaked or not because it would be [TS]

01:27:39   granted smart move not to make one [TS]

01:27:41   that is like super duper powerful but instead start going off in a new [TS]

01:27:45   direction which is to steve hasn't peed the ps4 is a better game consoles for [TS]

01:27:49   you hear about our games right and that's the bed Microsoft is making that [TS]

01:27:53   games are not enough anymore that having a super duper awesome game console is [TS]

01:27:58   not a sufficiently compelling product and you need to have something else and [TS]

01:28:02   by having something else people will more than forgive the slight slower game [TS]

01:28:07   performance because of all this other stuff I think that definitely remains to [TS]

01:28:11   be seen because I think both of these devices because the xpac one is not as [TS]

01:28:15   simplifying and a unifying as Microsoft thinks it is I think it will still [TS]

01:28:20   appeal mostly to not just hardcore gamers be kind of like did you type [TS]

01:28:24   people like I when I would give my parents and Apple TV but I would not [TS]

01:28:27   give them an Xbox console I think both of these things are going to end up [TS]

01:28:31   targeting game console type of nerds and early adopters and in that race between [TS]

01:28:39   them I think it seems like a fog machine exactly like this console generation did [TS]

01:28:45   the Microsoft gonna win and they're going to sell more but that Sony will do [TS]

01:28:49   pretty well and I don't think the television's great stuff will save [TS]

01:28:52   Microsoft and give them sort of a runaway success and just bury the [TS]

01:28:56   peaceful we all just agree that US crude [TS]

01:28:59   yeah I think you're right about that I don't see Sony had an is roughly time as [TS]

01:29:05   Nintendo at all i mean obviously they have a big following and is intended but [TS]

01:29:10   I think I think Sony is making almost the right kind of system and I think [TS]

01:29:14   you'll be good enough to be so I think they're tender unfortunately is still [TS]

01:29:18   making the GameCube like how many people are nervous about getting the first Xbox [TS]

01:29:24   one like all the port red ring people like how many people is totally unfair [TS]

01:29:28   because of all the companies in the world [TS]

01:29:30   the one that is probably the most careful that he then it's game consoles [TS]

01:29:33   probably Microsoft for this generation they've lost so much money on the 360 [TS]

01:29:37   warranty repairs and stuff so you think that night but the past generations like [TS]

01:29:41   will you know Sony made this insane machine with this crazy CPU and they [TS]

01:29:47   should have been the one over hitting all-time but like their hardware has [TS]

01:29:50   been really reliable [TS]

01:29:51   can say well I guess only really just kind of consumer electronics oh right or [TS]

01:29:56   wrong [TS]

01:29:56   coming in this generation I feel like I have so much more faith in the [TS]

01:30:00   reliability of whatever the heck the ps4 I was in look like maybe we'll all be [TS]

01:30:03   proven wrong and maybe that the ps4 will be think overheating screen out that [TS]

01:30:07   like going into it you know I think Microsoft has to prove especially [TS]

01:30:12   considering how humongous an ugly in Newton this thing looks just looks like [TS]

01:30:17   a shoulder he'd dropped almost certainly will not right but it's like you know [TS]

01:30:21   its Xbox is huge lol alright with that let's wrap and thanks to our sponsors [TS]

01:30:29   Squarespace use coupon code ATP 5 get 10% off at Squarespace and Windows Azure [TS]

01:30:35   mobile services good Windows Azure dot com slash iOS to learn more about that [TS]

01:30:39   thanks guys [TS]

01:30:41   now the show they didn't even mean to begin [TS]

01:30:48   accidental accidental [TS]

01:30:55   Casey [TS]

01:30:59   because it was accidental and you can show no [TS]

01:31:07   be there and a team article [TS]

01:31:42   titles I do like david smith's leading title champagne the poor and rap stars [TS]

01:31:51   like it's a little long though I don't understand why you like the rap star's [TS]

01:31:56   don't part of its most since language report on the rap stars like a thousand [TS]

01:32:17   dollars a bottle like nothing is wrong I love you can't wait for I cannot wait [TS]

01:32:27   for you [TS]