The Accidental Tech Podcast

00:00:00 ◼   ► dumping the DROP TABLE 10 because Apple probably does not protect against [TS]

00:00:05 ◼   ► injection [TS]

00:00:06 ◼   ► Raquel take down the hall I do I do like I'm double metal or made an announcement [TS]

00:00:13 ◼   ► that was made i've i've heard that occasionally but it's it's much more [TS]

00:00:18 ◼   ► rare than you know the gift gift thing like that's like 50 51 made us know [TS]

00:00:22 ◼   ► sorry that's not a sound good [TS]

00:00:25 ◼   ► this reminds me of when I brought up the broth phase and neutral but I wrote my [TS]

00:00:32 ◼   ► first VA list function a few minutes ago [TS]

00:00:35 ◼   ► like all this time I've known that it's a thing I've known you know that that [TS]

00:00:40 ◼   ► this is how you do very well argument list C functions but I've never actually [TS]

00:00:45 ◼   ► needed to write one really until like an hour ago I did that at my first job [TS]

00:00:52 ◼   ► which was C++ $4 remember why did it but I did it was weird so would you use it [TS]

00:00:59 ◼   ► for him I'll add asked yet you want I so I first from my new big thing I've now [TS]

00:01:08 ◼   ► done in in substantially shipping products I've now done both core data in [TS]

00:01:15 ◼   ► the magazine and grant that's a that's a pretty light use for today but it's [TS]

00:01:19 ◼   ► still a shipping Peppino productive for production use of this listing for a [TS]

00:01:24 ◼   ► real app that's not entirely trivial so I've used for data and Instapaper I used [TS]

00:01:32 ◼   ► SQLite just wrong and just made a few lightweight utility functions to wrap on [TS]

00:01:38 ◼   ► top of it but I didn't that's everything was really just done violet rock and [TS]

00:01:44 ◼   ► roll calls the escalating the eye and i know if i dont not pronounced SQLite and [TS]

00:01:48 ◼   ► I don't care I also sick if a while sucking it anyway I so from a new [TS]

00:01:59 ◼   ► project now that I've seen both I would like to get back to SQLite a little bit [TS]

00:02:05 ◼   ► just because core data is really nice for a very large set of things but this [TS]

00:02:10 ◼   ► is something where I expect to be dealing with a lot of [TS]

00:02:13 ◼   ► data and I know when you have large datasets that core data performance [TS]

00:02:18 ◼   ► problems can can pretty easily arise and can often be very very hard to get [TS]

00:02:22 ◼   ► around so I decided to use just Mueller's awesome FMD be which is a [TS]

00:02:30 ◼   ► which is a pretty lightweight wrapper around SQLite and what I what I decided [TS]

00:02:36 ◼   ► to build was a similarly lightweight model class on top of that and this is [TS]

00:02:44 ◼   ► probably this is one of those things where if you hear program were saying [TS]

00:02:47 ◼   ► they made their own model class chances are it was a bad idea and mile chances [TS]

00:02:52 ◼   ► are mine is probably a bad idea as well but I'm doing it anyway just like [TS]

00:02:56 ◼   ► BlogEngine and receive my own coffee I'm doing these things anyway even though [TS]

00:02:59 ◼   ► it's it's generally not worth it and I'm probably like so OK to meet the main [TS]

00:03:04 ◼   ► argument against this this is the classic like programmer know it all [TS]

00:03:08 ◼   ► wanting to rewrite something really critical that everyone's on a million [TS]

00:03:11 ◼   ► times and chances are my version gonna have bugs you know they're implementing [TS]

00:03:16 ◼   ► units joke or a maximalist whatever the whatever the joke is all three so it is [TS]

00:03:25 ◼   ► let's look at it was UNIX ok I have to look that up anyway so of course you're [TS]

00:03:32 ◼   ► right John this is the kind of thing you would know is that resemble any it's [TS]

00:03:35 ◼   ► like you know if any any program eventually includes a half ass buggy [TS]

00:03:41 ◼   ► implementation of whisper something like that I'm paraphrasing yeah I'm pretty [TS]

00:03:45 ◼   ► sure that is the thing I'm referring to [TS]

00:03:46 ◼   ► anyway so so there's there's already probably a million of these things out [TS]

00:03:51 ◼   ► there but I don't like using other peoples frameworks that do substantial [TS]

00:03:57 ◼   ► like non trivial things I don't generally tend to use those except [TS]

00:04:02 ◼   ► apples and you know things that I just really could not write myself but using [TS]

00:04:10 ◼   ► other peoples like utility functions to fight that that's why I'm a handy [TS]

00:04:13 ◼   ► because not only do a lot of people use it and just be a good programmer but I [TS]

00:04:17 ◼   ► can I can look at the code it's not a very large library it's it's actually [TS]

00:04:21 ◼   ► very very compact [TS]

00:04:23 ◼   ► and it is really is just like it really just convenience wrappers around SQLite [TS]

00:04:28 ◼   ► for the most part and so is it so you know it's pretty thin so you're not [TS]

00:04:33 ◼   ► you're not like networking family if not working I [TS]

00:04:38 ◼   ► to the magazine fairly late like it and I think in the most recent version of [TS]

00:04:43 ◼   ► the magazine I think it for for some some relatively [TS]

00:04:48 ◼   ► or some relatively trivial thing I really want to try it I know I have [TS]

00:04:51 ◼   ► networking is very very good and a programmer is that is that met with 3 [TS]

00:04:54 ◼   ► t's Thompson who believe that's right he's a he's really really good so that's [TS]

00:05:00 ◼   ► what I like I have no problem using his coat cuz he's ridiculously good so I'm [TS]

00:05:05 ◼   ► pretty sure but everyone is not working so I know that you know it probably is [TS]

00:05:12 ◼   ► not buggy and if there is a bug is probably affects pretty quickly so it's [TS]

00:05:18 ◼   ► nothing like you know it they do a lot of things there it's it's still a fairly [TS]

00:05:21 ◼   ► thin layer though like different parts of it I guess there are different widths [TS]

00:05:27 ◼   ► but yes so anyway long story short I decided to write my own model class and [TS]

00:05:36 ◼   ► this involves [TS]

00:05:38 ◼   ► anytime you write something like this there's a there's a lot of weird design [TS]

00:05:42 ◼   ► decisions you have to make this is one of the first times I've really had to [TS]

00:05:46 ◼   ► dive in to check to C runtime stuff and I'm trying to avoid it being happy Eid [TS]

00:05:52 ◼   ► and now I'm only I'm calling us runtime functions to basically do reflection and [TS]

00:05:58 ◼   ► we had a whole reflection topic on the cut on the topic but I wonder if we can [TS]

00:06:04 ◼   ► get to this now but we certainly can [TS]

00:06:06 ◼   ► yeah but you know like in in dynamic languages like most of the Web languages [TS]

00:06:12 ◼   ► like you know that they've been sleeping with the soviets it's easy to it it's [TS]

00:06:17 ◼   ► very very easy to like you know just inspect your variables and see what the [TS]

00:06:21 ◼   ► class has and [TS]

00:06:23 ◼   ► and do crazy things to it and and everything else with Objective C a lot [TS]

00:06:28 ◼   ► of that is possible some of its not but it's actually more possible than I [TS]

00:06:33 ◼   ► thought it was so one thing I'm doing is you know the model class has its own [TS]

00:06:40 ◼   ► dictionary mapping column names to their values that's so awful but carry on [TS]

00:06:48 ◼   ► go on the times as well it's awful in in that coming from a.net background [TS]

00:06:57 ◼   ► background that is not at all how he would handle it but in Objective C that [TS]

00:07:02 ◼   ► probably is exactly how I would handle its all tell you the other approach when [TS]

00:07:06 ◼   ► you're done so I'm sorry carry on no please tell me now [TS]

00:07:09 ◼   ► alright so now you've just lost the floor for an hour and Johnny Manziel [TS]

00:07:13 ◼   ► just hang up so one of the things I've been wanting to talk about any TV for a [TS]

00:07:17 ◼   ► long time is having a leg in in both the dot net and the Objective C and cocoa [TS]

00:07:23 ◼   ► world's is that there's a there's a lot of obvious differences between the two [TS]

00:07:28 ◼   ► platforms and by and large I really really like the decisions that Apple's [TS]

00:07:32 ◼   ► made and my friend Jimmy Pinkham said to me ones when I was complaining about for [TS]

00:07:38 ◼   ► example how convoluted handling dates are within Coco he said just a date [TS]

00:07:45 ◼   ► class that handles everything in Indiana he said it more eloquently than about [TS]

00:07:49 ◼   ► recounted but he said something to the order up you know is it really that [TS]

00:07:52 ◼   ► complex or is it just properly abstracted and it was one of those [TS]

00:07:56 ◼   ► polled you know total mind explosions you know what you're actually right [TS]

00:07:59 ◼   ► about that and so large I think that that cocoa and Cocoa Touch a really [TS]

00:08:03 ◼   ► really well done however reflection in coca-cola cup attached not as well known [TS]

00:08:09 ◼   ► as I would like [TS]

00:08:10 ◼   ► so let's give you an example by way of how would I have done the same thing in [TS]

00:08:15 ◼   ► dotnet and this all queued for me when you tweeted about 34 days ago about what [TS]

00:08:22 ◼   ► do you call the thing that represents the unique identifier foreign object [TS]

00:08:27 ◼   ► actually in most languages that would be I D [TS]

00:08:31 ◼   ► but in Objective C you can't really do that because it works just fine [TS]

00:08:37 ◼   ► which is a little bit scary but it does work right you can name a variable IDE [TS]

00:08:43 ◼   ► mine was even type I D that's gotta make me hurt so bad but the point of driving [TS]

00:08:50 ◼   ► is whether or not not anymore but allowed it's just not a good plan and I [TS]

00:08:54 ◼   ► think we can all agree about that so what I've done and done at what's really [TS]

00:08:58 ◼   ► great about that at his reflection is in my personal opinion kind of a [TS]

00:09:01 ◼   ► first-class portion of the language in dotnet is really meditative heavy so [TS]

00:09:07 ◼   ► what that means is when I have what a.net program Caulfield but but [TS]

00:09:12 ◼   ► Objective C program program would call live are basically a variable in class I [TS]

00:09:17 ◼   ► can actually decorate that variable with arbitrary things that we call attributes [TS]

00:09:22 ◼   ► so if you imagine a class definition you can say that you have a very bold that's [TS]

00:09:28 ◼   ► called unique identifier for example where you can put an attribute that's [TS]

00:09:33 ◼   ► associated with that variable and that attribute is actually an instance of a [TS]

00:09:38 ◼   ► class that inherits from a certain base class call guess what [TS]

00:09:42 ◼   ► attribute so I could make an attribute that decorates that field that specifies [TS]

00:09:49 ◼   ► what the colony me for that I far so let me play this back I've got a class I've [TS]

00:09:56 ◼   ► got a class that's in my application that may or may not use the same terms [TS]

00:10:02 ◼   ► as I want to use my data store so I could call whatever this is this [TS]

00:10:09 ◼   ► variable but like I said unique identifier I could call that unique [TS]

00:10:13 ◼   ► identifier in my C sharp code but I could decorate it with an attribute that [TS]

00:10:19 ◼   ► says hey when you go back to the database [TS]

00:10:21 ◼   ► it's actually called I D and so that's really really powerful being able to [TS]

00:10:27 ◼   ► easily and that's the key here easily introspect and reflect upon yourself in [TS]

00:10:32 ◼   ► C [TS]

00:10:33 ◼   ► what what meditating you have about your own classes and I use this constantly [TS]

00:10:39 ◼   ► when I first learned about it was one of those things where I had a hammer so [TS]

00:10:42 ◼   ► everything was a nail and I'm not proud of that but as I've gone on to be a more [TS]

00:10:48 ◼   ► mature programmer III still use this all the time and you can write your own [TS]

00:10:52 ◼   ► custom attributes like I said you can use a ton of existing attributes but [TS]

00:10:56 ◼   ► being able to decorate your code and and and give yourself help on what to do [TS]

00:11:03 ◼   ► with your code is the most powerful thing in the world so to bring us back [TS]

00:11:06 ◼   ► to Coco what I would have liked to have been able to do is do the same thing for [TS]

00:11:11 ◼   ► you would have been able to do is to do the same thing and have this Ivar thats [TS]

00:11:14 ◼   ► may be called identifier but in the database is called idea and you don't [TS]

00:11:19 ◼   ► have to have a stupid freakin dictionary or hash table or whatever the case may [TS]

00:11:23 ◼   ► be hanging out doing that conversion it's all in line it's a first-class part [TS]

00:11:30 ◼   ► of that class does that make any sense at all it did that actually really cool [TS]

00:11:34 ◼   ► because I mean I don't even I think I think there actually is buried in the [TS]

00:11:40 ◼   ► runtime away in Objective C two attacks arbitrary objects to any NSObject but I [TS]

00:11:46 ◼   ► don't think and and either way let you know that you probably shouldn't be [TS]

00:11:52 ◼   ► doing things with the is a lot of a lot of things with with you know designing [TS]

00:11:57 ◼   ► low-level model and and reflection type classes and things like that does a lot [TS]

00:12:03 ◼   ► of times where like there's something you can do that you probably shouldn't [TS]

00:12:06 ◼   ► do and a lot of room for terrible acts right and you could do an associated [TS]

00:12:11 ◼   ► object but that's a little bit different because that's more of saying this [TS]

00:12:16 ◼   ► because I haven't done in a while but if memory serves that's saying hey for this [TS]

00:12:20 ◼   ► instance of this class I want to have this arbitrary object associated with it [TS]

00:12:25 ◼   ► where is what I'm talking about is at a class level on defining an additional [TS]

00:12:29 ◼   ► piece of medidata that's part of that class definition and and again it's just [TS]

00:12:34 ◼   ► extremely powerful I think you're right mark I think you can do a lot of this [TS]

00:12:37 ◼   ► with Objective C I'm plugged into reflection in the sea and a lot of it is [TS]

00:12:42 ◼   ► possible a whole heck of a lot of it [TS]

00:12:44 ◼   ► it but the thing that's crummy about it in we've complained about this is a [TS]

00:12:49 ◼   ► threesome for that you gotta drop into the C runtime and you were saying this [TS]

00:12:53 ◼   ► just a few minutes ago you gotta rent dropping the Objective C runtime which [TS]

00:12:56 ◼   ► is all straight see which once you get used to the Christine world of objective [TS]

00:13:00 ◼   ► see it's just it's it's it's not that I mean you know I like I had to write [TS]

00:13:05 ◼   ► Malik and free earlier today for the first time in a while but you know it's [TS]

00:13:09 ◼   ► like it's like 10 lines of C in the middle of this wonderful cushy Playland [TS]

00:13:14 ◼   ► I mean it's not it's not that bad so if someone would you have done in PHP and [TS]

00:13:20 ◼   ► John at like to know where pearl fits in if we ever give you a chance to talk to [TS]

00:13:24 ◼   ► like what you've done if you were trying to solve the same problem in PHP but [TS]

00:13:27 ◼   ► have said the same problem PHP III use for Instapaper for the magazine for the [TS]

00:13:32 ◼   ► new things I I do use my own MVC framework that is very thin and [TS]

00:13:37 ◼   ► lightweight so I can use SQL directly all the same goals actually well most of [TS]

00:13:41 ◼   ► the same goals and so I have this problem PHP and and I basically I i [TS]

00:13:50 ◼   ► think i do roughly the same thing with like you know storing storing the [TS]

00:13:54 ◼   ► attributes of of a model object as a dictionary of no strings to value of [TS]

00:13:59 ◼   ► values and his keys match the database icon names and you know there's all [TS]

00:14:05 ◼   ► sorts of things you can do by the way I love it if marilyn is actually listening [TS]

00:14:09 ◼   ► to this and if he still listening I'm getting him back so hard for all that [TS]

00:14:12 ◼   ► comic book tour this is glorious so you know it there's there's always this is [TS]

00:14:23 ◼   ► one of the reasons why I like doing this kind of programming at at this level [TS]

00:14:27 ◼   ► stopping these kinds of problems even even saw million times before even [TS]

00:14:31 ◼   ► though my implementation may not be very good for some people over some things [TS]

00:14:34 ◼   ► are for myself even I love it because it's there's so many design decisions [TS]

00:14:40 ◼   ► that you can make that really do have a pretty big impact so one of the things [TS]

00:14:45 ◼   ► for too much I think it will get a little bit boring even for people who [TS]

00:14:50 ◼   ► aren't Maryland but I think [TS]

00:14:54 ◼   ► one of the things about one of the hardest part about this is like how do [TS]

00:14:58 ◼   ► you how do you expose the database fields on the object and how much colder [TS]

00:15:03 ◼   ► boilerplate has to pee has to be written to like in Indy subclass so in the model [TS]

00:15:10 ◼   ► classes how much do you have to do and how are the counter percent so in my [TS]

00:15:15 ◼   ► thing I actually do a very similar trick to accord and it does because you can [TS]

00:15:20 ◼   ► tell at runtime books I actually don't know why you can tell us run time but [TS]

00:15:24 ◼   ► you can you can tell it run time whether a property was declared dynamic and [TS]

00:15:31 ◼   ► whether rather whether its implementation was declared dynamic and [TS]

00:15:35 ◼   ► and whether you know it has custom getters and setters all that stuff is [TS]

00:15:40 ◼   ► available at runtime from the runtime API's so I'm basically making it so that [TS]

00:15:46 ◼   ► you can you can set and get arbitrary column names just buy a dictionary API [TS]

00:15:50 ◼   ► but it also treats any dynamic property as a database com so and then you know [TS]

00:15:56 ◼   ► does in a useful thing so you can have a property that's an NSU ro and if you do [TS]

00:16:01 ◼   ► if you declare dynamic in the rotation file then the runtime will see that and [TS]

00:16:07 ◼   ► so at runtime it'll say any access to and from that is the database field [TS]

00:16:12 ◼   ► named that and then you can just call saved and it works and you can call you [TS]

00:16:18 ◼   ► can call the core functions get them and and that it maps into them on Reid's [TS]

00:16:23 ◼   ► you know it's just it's a very simple model ie no I don't [TS]

00:16:29 ◼   ► this is one of the reasons why I write my own bottle where is that like I don't [TS]

00:16:35 ◼   ► usually like the model layer to have to do that much and specifically like you [TS]

00:16:41 ◼   ► know I treat databases the way that most programmers of previously high-traffic [TS]

00:16:46 ◼   ► web applications treat databases which is infrequently and gently ahead so I [TS]

00:16:52 ◼   ► don't like it and really like crazy you know very high five high functioning [TS]

00:16:59 ◼   ► model type API's where they like go look up associated objects for you and do [TS]

00:17:04 ◼   ► extra queries on your behalf [TS]

00:17:06 ◼   ► and I don't carry builders you know myself so I can choose exactly how it [TS]

00:17:11 ◼   ► screens database and optimize it and I don't like anything that creates the [TS]

00:17:16 ◼   ► tables for me I don't like the core data GUI about the the mall declarations and [TS]

00:17:23 ◼   ► the migrations of migrations are a rough so I'm basically doing something that it [TS]

00:17:32 ◼   ► it is more of a convenience wrapper than a functional rapper if that makes sense [TS]

00:17:36 ◼   ► like it's not it's not doing a whole bunch of magic it's just getting rid of [TS]

00:17:41 ◼   ► boilerplate [TS]

00:17:43 ◼   ► does that make sense it does I guess to me I view a model as the buffer between [TS]

00:17:52 ◼   ► the completely myopic database world and the completely myopic application-level [TS]

00:17:59 ◼   ► into me and I agree with you that model should be extremely dumb it should [TS]

00:18:03 ◼   ► basically be a bucket in nothing else but I I would hate have not having it [TS]

00:18:09 ◼   ► around because I want my application code to speak with classes classes and [TS]

00:18:14 ◼   ► very little else and all my database to speak to itself in some late [TS]

00:18:19 ◼   ► intermediate layer that translates from database to modeling back in and I think [TS]

00:18:23 ◼   ► we're saying the same thing but I i cant when you said I am writing a model and i [TS]

00:18:27 ◼   ► cant believe in doing that senator that's just it struck me funny because I [TS]

00:18:31 ◼   ► would hate not to have one [TS]

00:18:33 ◼   ► yeah so John yeah that's a job where you land on something and Marco said in the [TS]

00:18:42 ◼   ► beginning readers this topic about how he was making his own model class and [TS]

00:18:45 ◼   ► that's probably a mistake and Casey said he thought it was thinking about this [TS]

00:18:51 ◼   ► topic i save a lot of it's kind of like a class system for programmers and maybe [TS]

00:19:01 ◼   ► maybe Marco but I mean it like you know you know maybe Marco has not seen as [TS]

00:19:07 ◼   ► much as Casey has been [TS]

00:19:09 ◼   ► govt job for longer but I see it all the time if the distinctions of all sorts of [TS]

00:19:16 ◼   ► programs based on their experience what language they use with their education [TS]

00:19:19 ◼   ► is it ever and this distinction i think is the most important one much more so [TS]

00:19:23 ◼   ► than any of those things no matter what their education is how long they have [TS]

00:19:26 ◼   ► been doing what language they rioting in I usually tend to Ben programmers into [TS]

00:19:31 ◼   ► two groups one is the programmers who take something that someone else wrote [TS]

00:19:39 ◼   ► and use it to make a program they learn Ruby on Rails and they make a web [TS]

00:19:43 ◼   ► application you know they they learned you like it and in the end I OS [TS]

00:19:48 ◼   ► applications and those people distinguish between the Magical Elves [TS]

00:19:55 ◼   ► that make the things are going to use to write their program and their program [TS]

00:19:59 ◼   ► and the second set of people make no distinction between the things they're [TS]

00:20:04 ◼   ► using to write the program and their program it's all one continuous thing [TS]

00:20:07 ◼   ► and those are the people who are going to write their own thing even though the [TS]

00:20:13 ◼   ► vendor provides one or those that are going to write their own web frameworks [TS]

00:20:17 ◼   ► of their own blog engines or like you know in the extreme case their own [TS]

00:20:20 ◼   ► language like its complete continuum and there's no hard and fast line between [TS]

00:20:24 ◼   ► these are the words that I typed making a program work and this is my program [TS]

00:20:28 ◼   ► you know like I don't know if you wanna call to build myself have to be that [TS]

00:20:32 ◼   ► type of thing but there are some people who will never cross that line in every [TS]

00:20:36 ◼   ► in every environment they find themselves in programming they will draw [TS]

00:20:40 ◼   ► that distinction somewhere in say that is other and I don't do that and that is [TS]

00:20:43 ◼   ► magic and I call these things to make my program work and in my program is a [TS]

00:20:47 ◼   ► series of conditionals in loops and variables in class or whatever they use [TS]

00:20:50 ◼   ► that thing to do their work and I think that that distinction is like a [TS]

00:20:58 ◼   ► provision right there tomorrow class being afraid to like and to try and draw [TS]

00:21:04 ◼   ► that line in like using as a barrier and saying I shouldn't cross over the line [TS]

00:21:07 ◼   ► one is like practicality like it maybe you should write your own language and [TS]

00:21:10 ◼   ► compiler to do this you know [TS]

00:21:11 ◼   ► calculator program or something right so that's one side by side of his I see a [TS]

00:21:16 ◼   ► lot of people who draw that line and are afraid to ever cross that everyone [TS]

00:21:18 ◼   ► starts with outline what you're doing you start out [TS]

00:21:21 ◼   ► right but I encourage everybody who thinks they can recognize that line to [TS]

00:21:25 ◼   ► realize the line doesn't exist it's all just one big continuum of code written [TS]

00:21:29 ◼   ► by people and there's no reason you can't write a better one of whatever it [TS]

00:21:33 ◼   ► is that you're using all up and down the chain and in some cases you should [TS]

00:21:36 ◼   ► obviously you know like knowing when you should remind you shouldn't is a whole [TS]

00:21:41 ◼   ► separate matter but never like it you know I wouldn't like it if this is a [TS]

00:21:46 ◼   ► reason not to do it not because like all I'm gonna screw it up and just people [TS]

00:21:50 ◼   ► who made those things are like at a certain point there's other people to [TS]

00:21:53 ◼   ► write you know like just another guy and you know you're good at doing some like [TS]

00:22:00 ◼   ► that is they decided I'm gonna make my own thing here and then do your thing [TS]

00:22:04 ◼   ► might not be as good but the fifth version of your thing will be as good [TS]

00:22:07 ◼   ► and then you've just become one of those people in that line is gone so that's my [TS]

00:22:12 ◼   ► take on this whole on the demerit topic to topic for a minute it up again and [TS]

00:22:17 ◼   ► I'm double medic and as for the things that the actual things you're all [TS]

00:22:22 ◼   ► talking about their I don't wanna go simpson's did it on you but I you know I [TS]

00:22:26 ◼   ► was doing since instead it right so all the stuff myself accountable in the [TS]

00:22:30 ◼   ► world and the path that I've traveled and I think a lot of the pro communities [TS]

00:22:35 ◼   ► travel in the same day same topic is kind of you know in the beginning [TS]

00:22:43 ◼   ► you've got a way to Cincy Calgary somewhere and that's annoying and [TS]

00:22:47 ◼   ► someone write some nicer way to wrap that up and that's nicer than you're [TS]

00:22:51 ◼   ► like ok when I wanna make some like classes associated with things that are [TS]

00:22:54 ◼   ► gonna be associated tables and it's kind of annoying to write all that which [TS]

00:22:58 ◼   ► fields are associated with columns and cyclic marco was going to how much do I [TS]

00:23:02 ◼   ► have to write like after you done ten or twenty those things at a certain point [TS]

00:23:05 ◼   ► in like can I type blessing at the same effect right and then the less likely [TS]

00:23:11 ◼   ► you know that the ActiveRecord rails type thing we're like 10 have type [TS]

00:23:14 ◼   ► anything can just inspect the database and figure out what all the columns are [TS]

00:23:18 ◼   ► into a list for me and say look I can type of 19 my whole thing is not right [TS]

00:23:22 ◼   ► and you know you could just see you can probably do that I'd like to see if you [TS]

00:23:28 ◼   ► really want to get down and dirty with the injectors here on time will you [TS]

00:23:30 ◼   ► probably don't but [TS]

00:23:32 ◼   ► you know just don't don't have anything to inspect the database figure out the [TS]

00:23:36 ◼   ► classes make your clothes make your feet on the table many classes based on now [TS]

00:23:40 ◼   ► have a thing that manages the conventions for naming and also the crap [TS]

00:23:43 ◼   ► you know and I think the next step beyond that which I found probably the [TS]

00:23:50 ◼   ► biggest leap like that the first biggest leap was the one where you get into the [TS]

00:23:54 ◼   ► race to see how the typing you can do useful work done in the second biggest [TS]

00:23:58 ◼   ► leap i think is when you get to the point where you realize that time your [TS]

00:24:02 ◼   ► classes are structured database tables is a terrible idea at like not just like [TS]

00:24:07 ◼   ► in terms of the field names but structurally period because maybe [TS]

00:24:10 ◼   ► doesn't happen in small projects are products of a single developer but in [TS]

00:24:14 ◼   ► large projects and big companies that evolved over many many years [TS]

00:24:18 ◼   ► inevitably the structure databases almost no relation to the way you want [TS]

00:24:21 ◼   ► your application to work like not at all not on the table bases not own anything [TS]

00:24:25 ◼   ► like it just ridiculously diversion and in some ways you could say well that's [TS]

00:24:28 ◼   ► bad because things are diverging and they're getting on my stop but sometimes [TS]

00:24:32 ◼   ► it's necessary because the way if your data structured has to evolve in a [TS]

00:24:36 ◼   ► direction for performance reasons it has no bearing whatsoever how you would like [TS]

00:24:40 ◼   ► to deal with it in your application so I think the next step in the sequences to [TS]

00:24:43 ◼   ► give yourself tools to get your data in the database but make sure you don't tie [TS]

00:24:49 ◼   ► any of you guys are calling model objects hate that term you don't try any [TS]

00:24:54 ◼   ► of the inner workings every application to the structure or storage location or [TS]

00:24:58 ◼   ► anything having to do with the stuff in the database you still need some tool to [TS]

00:25:01 ◼   ► make it seem like a million lines of code every time I get a database thing [TS]

00:25:04 ◼   ► you know [TS]

00:25:05 ◼   ► inflate your values and your objects and data objects and all that nice stop and [TS]

00:25:09 ◼   ► you still want to be able to do to not have to type that you click Load but you [TS]

00:25:14 ◼   ► have to make it you have to make another bike box on the graphics and this is my [TS]

00:25:18 ◼   ► code because the crap on a database this is what created from the data in the [TS]

00:25:22 ◼   ► database and those two are pretty much entirely unrelated so it actually helps [TS]

00:25:27 ◼   ► and development of innovative ace and other studies have text files I was [TS]

00:25:32 ◼   ► talking to hardcode suffer like the rest of your application don't care because [TS]

00:25:35 ◼   ► it deals with things that have no relation to the storage location or [TS]

00:25:39 ◼   ► structure of the thing and sometimes even when you doing projects all that [TS]

00:25:42 ◼   ► good for you to say [TS]

00:25:44 ◼   ► this is the correct table structure which you know who like just doing [TS]

00:25:47 ◼   ► database stuff you know what you are going to fishermen indexes you need what [TS]

00:25:49 ◼   ► things should be normalized not but when AM application it would be convenient if [TS]

00:25:53 ◼   ► the structure is very like this make the things that your application deals with [TS]

00:25:57 ◼   ► look the way they're most convenient for the application deal with men have some [TS]

00:26:00 ◼   ► sort of layer which is sometimes annoying to write but it will save you [TS]

00:26:04 ◼   ► later some sort of like that translates between the two in sometimes byzantine [TS]

00:26:07 ◼   ► ways so that that i think is a case where all the things that are met with [TS]

00:26:15 ◼   ► reflection coming at every level that existing you make it like makes it can [TS]

00:26:18 ◼   ► be a database that meets metadata and then the next thing you make that takes [TS]

00:26:22 ◼   ► the data from the database and puts it into the things that your application is [TS]

00:26:27 ◼   ► going to deal with like your applications idealized view of the world [TS]

00:26:30 ◼   ► that doesn't reflect the possible nastiness of the database because of [TS]

00:26:33 ◼   ► weirdness that needs a metadata to let things you don't write that code up all [TS]

00:26:38 ◼   ► by yourself and then finally your application for top-level think it's a [TS]

00:26:42 ◼   ► deal with objects look like that are you know magically delicious that are just [TS]

00:26:44 ◼   ► like wow this is exactly what I needed for this for my application it is you [TS]

00:26:50 ◼   ► know it's your idealized view of the world wouldn't it be great if we just [TS]

00:26:53 ◼   ► had three objects and they did this and you're like it so hard to do that when [TS]

00:26:56 ◼   ► your experience far as you think but i cant that object can exist to do that [TS]

00:27:00 ◼   ► because I know that's going to be on these two tables miss invasions from a [TS]

00:27:03 ◼   ► third table and and so you end up making things that are you know tied here to do [TS]

00:27:07 ◼   ► it so that's that's more or less the path I've walked on this topic in pearl [TS]

00:27:13 ◼   ► and in other languages and its effect on people like Andy Oram backlash was like [TS]

00:27:19 ◼   ► the RMS like it the ActiveRecord phase and you get to that place and you [TS]

00:27:22 ◼   ► realize you're kind of in a dead-end you've done a terrible thing but you're [TS]

00:27:25 ◼   ► not really like you've created something useful but you you know you need [TS]

00:27:30 ◼   ► something else as well so you know everything that you've done is is [TS]

00:27:37 ◼   ► helping you move forward this just another place where you can also move [TS]

00:27:40 ◼   ► stuff yeah I think you're right though that there's always this this kind of [TS]

00:27:53 ◼   ► battle between the the objects are fully abstracted from the data and the [TS]

00:27:58 ◼   ► messiness or the structure of the database one of the things that I think [TS]

00:28:04 ◼   ► court data does a little bit badly for my taste is it it's it's too much on [TS]

00:28:10 ◼   ► that object side where core data even though it is based on a database storage [TS]

00:28:16 ◼   ► engine and in many ways behaved like a database in many ways it doesn't let you [TS]

00:28:22 ◼   ► treat it like a database and so you're kind of it like like there's a there's a [TS]

00:28:27 ◼   ► whole class of operations that in court that are very easy to do and database [TS]

00:28:31 ◼   ► things like a lot of things involving multiple records or batches our range of [TS]

00:28:35 ◼   ► things like that things that coordinate either can't do very well can't do it [TS]

00:28:39 ◼   ► all [TS]

00:28:40 ◼   ► trying to give you the idealized version but now let me say anything about you [TS]

00:28:46 ◼   ► don't worry about the database you just tell us how you under the idealized view [TS]

00:28:49 ◼   ► of the world your application and we'll just persist that and you like really I [TS]

00:28:53 ◼   ► would like to have some influence on the process because I have some ideas that [TS]

00:28:57 ◼   ► you may find interesting [TS]

00:28:58 ◼   ► exactly and and for analog lot of times it's also necessary for performance you [TS]

00:29:04 ◼   ► know when you when you have an app that's just that has like a ton of data [TS]

00:29:07 ◼   ► or that has you know maybe one table 11 object type that has a lot of entries [TS]

00:29:12 ◼   ► and they're all very small to me wanna do something like that kind of thing [TS]

00:29:16 ◼   ► because you sure your data so because you know like the seven queries their [TS]

00:29:21 ◼   ► applications can run most of the time you know what will make those Korea's [TS]

00:29:23 ◼   ► festival not make them fast and coordinated as far l'amore gives you no [TS]

00:29:27 ◼   ► way to to influence the way it stories don't like you just make your [TS]

00:29:31 ◼   ► convenience object graph and you have to kind of like either kind of guests are [TS]

00:29:34 ◼   ► into it or understand enough about tornadoes in relation to how it's gonna [TS]

00:29:37 ◼   ► lay that out and have to know what operations does according to make [TS]

00:29:40 ◼   ► available and what will that translate into another will those be efficient and [TS]

00:29:43 ◼   ► that's like you would rather just you know like I know these are going to [TS]

00:29:46 ◼   ► somehow I bet applications probably just run like you know three possibly [TS]

00:29:50 ◼   ► performance critical care is all the time and it's just that look or did it [TS]

00:29:55 ◼   ► just do this this is all I want everything else to do but these are the [TS]

00:29:58 ◼   ► three essential questions like how do I will structure for you you don't worry [TS]

00:30:02 ◼   ► about so small applications are fine but anyways [TS]

00:30:05 ◼   ► vocational it that's all I continue to coordinate locations but a certain point [TS]

00:30:09 ◼   ► native applications starting out the day not web-scale but the timing is much [TS]

00:30:15 ◼   ► more critical in devices are slower to a certain point even a native application [TS]

00:30:19 ◼   ► you would like to have that kind of influence which is why you know how you [TS]

00:30:23 ◼   ► keep coming back to doing their own thing with Rossi polite because then you [TS]

00:30:28 ◼   ► have control over exactly because you know you have you have the sequel on one [TS]

00:30:32 ◼   ► side which is super light however you say I'm never answered every different [TS]

00:30:36 ◼   ► you shouldn't let me pull you into my way of saying I like isn't officially [TS]

00:30:41 ◼   ► something like SQLite yeah I don't know the official and you may ask you we're [TS]

00:30:48 ◼   ► going to that thing you have that on one side and that doesn't know anything [TS]

00:30:54 ◼   ► about objects [TS]

00:30:54 ◼   ► about you know your objects in your code like it's totally just raw there is no [TS]

00:30:59 ◼   ► attempt to even you know to even do anything higher level than just database [TS]

00:31:04 ◼   ► roads and that's it then the other end you have core data which is all about [TS]

00:31:10 ◼   ► the object and their mappings and it it doesn't expose anything about the [TS]

00:31:15 ◼   ► database and pretend that the database isn't there to you know to you the user [TS]

00:31:19 ◼   ► of it and so my thing is kind of in the middle and actually do intend open [TS]

00:31:27 ◼   ► source as I'm running of the attention of open source of it and and brand to be [TS]

00:31:30 ◼   ► a stand-alone piece so it can be but I do it and maybe just maybe later this [TS]

00:31:38 ◼   ► fall but you know I might think I want to be in the middle of a continuum [TS]

00:31:44 ◼   ► because I feel there isn't there are enough choices there and what's there a [TS]

00:31:49 ◼   ► lot of what's there is basically a whole bunch of people like me making the [TS]

00:31:53 ◼   ► things for themselves to vary with varying degrees of success varying [TS]

00:31:56 ◼   ► degrees of people using it and reporting bugs and varying degrees of [TS]

00:32:00 ◼   ► functionality and it's not like to do apps like it if you're the kind of [TS]

00:32:04 ◼   ► person who can make one of these model layers or or something like this [TS]

00:32:10 ◼   ► the chances that you're gonna be happy enough with somebody else's to want to [TS]

00:32:13 ◼   ► use to use their instead of making your own is pretty low [TS]

00:32:16 ◼   ► and so you know for me you know I I'm doing my own thing like I usually do [TS]

00:32:22 ◼   ► sometimes good sometimes bad head and say I'm making this thing kind of [TS]

00:32:30 ◼   ► between single item korda and I'm going to use it and we'll see what happens I [TS]

00:32:36 ◼   ► guess I think in a native applications hanging out there like small small but [TS]

00:32:42 ◼   ► like you're not writing system for a product that's gonna have seven [TS]

00:32:49 ◼   ► incarnations like it you know if you if you are making me think of something [TS]

00:32:53 ◼   ► like Gmail not LinkedIn maybe Facebook maybe some sort of big giant web service [TS]

00:33:00 ◼   ► used by millions of people that has 10 different ways to interface with it even [TS]

00:33:05 ◼   ► just within their own company if you that's where you really want to have [TS]

00:33:08 ◼   ► your have your data access layer and then above that have your object layer [TS]

00:33:12 ◼   ► may give you the idealized representation and then have a whole [TS]

00:33:16 ◼   ► bunch of other people in the company or whatever [TS]

00:33:18 ◼   ► writing business logic riding automation things running stuff and all they ever [TS]

00:33:22 ◼   ► uses the idealized view of you know the product which has an ever changing [TS]

00:33:28 ◼   ► relationship with how things are actually story you saw that you're [TS]

00:33:32 ◼   ► isolating the whole rest of the people you know I just talked about this line [TS]

00:33:35 ◼   ► between the people who are right I think people are using the thing individual [TS]

00:33:39 ◼   ► programs shouldn't say that line but if you're trying to scale up a company it's [TS]

00:33:42 ◼   ► a good idea to have people building at various layers and you want everyone [TS]

00:33:46 ◼   ► who's this writing you know a bunch of reports that run or a bunch of jobs that [TS]

00:33:50 ◼   ► do maintenance stuff for the people who write the web front end of the people [TS]

00:33:52 ◼   ► who write the native app you want all those people to be using an interface [TS]

00:33:57 ◼   ► that has almost no relation to the implementation of you could possibly [TS]

00:34:00 ◼   ► help it and then another set of people dealing with how that you know idealized [TS]

00:34:05 ◼   ► view of the product interfaces with the datastore back and they're going to have [TS]

00:34:08 ◼   ► to change the use different day stores in a rearranged up they can do normalize [TS]

00:34:12 ◼   ► tables are gonna rename things are gonna do different versions of tables and you [TS]

00:34:16 ◼   ► don't want anyone else to see that but when you're just doing it one native iOS [TS]

00:34:20 ◼   ► application [TS]

00:34:21 ◼   ► with the webservice something especially using a different language for the web [TS]

00:34:24 ◼   ► part of it it's probably not critical that you make this kind of enterprise a [TS]

00:34:28 ◼   ► distinction i I just offered up as like the next evolution of so you've gone and [TS]

00:34:35 ◼   ► done yourself an ActiveRecord to record type thing which Greece database [TS]

00:34:38 ◼   ► structure and build your glasses on the fly according to some convention with [TS]

00:34:41 ◼   ► the plural eyes and also the stock and you're still sad maybe it's because you [TS]

00:34:45 ◼   ► actually want to tell us about something that's pretty awesome and I want to [TS]

00:34:51 ◼   ► speak in favor of coordinated briefly then we can get give up on this probably [TS]

00:34:55 ◼   ► extremely boring topic [TS]

00:34:56 ◼   ► alright trying to hang in there Marilyn this week we are sponsored once again by [TS]

00:35:04 ◼   ► hover hover is high quality no hassle domain registration so they believe that [TS]

00:35:12 ◼   ► everyone should be able to take control of their online identity have your own [TS]

00:35:15 ◼   ► domain name and they make it easy to do so they are for.net cocom TV tons [TS]

00:35:21 ◼   ► country-code teal these you know there's always out there now they're making new [TS]

00:35:27 ◼   ► ones however keeps adding them it's great so they take all the hassle and [TS]

00:35:33 ◼   ► friction out of owning and managing domain names now I I bet everyone [TS]

00:35:37 ◼   ► listening to the show is probably very nice to have our domain name in the past [TS]

00:35:40 ◼   ► and if you borrowed the main anywhere else I imagine you were not that happy [TS]

00:35:45 ◼   ► with the experience because I have bought them in a lot of places and [TS]

00:35:49 ◼   ► they're pretty rough [TS]

00:35:53 ◼   ► most of the places a pretty rough however is to me like a breath of fresh [TS]

00:35:57 ◼   ► air like they are just so easy they're honest they don't try to upsell you with [TS]

00:36:02 ◼   ► all sorts of weird sleazy stuff there's no like a checkbox on checkout that's [TS]

00:36:07 ◼   ► like don't not stop sending me the newsletter that doesn't sell my privacy [TS]

00:36:11 ◼   ► for $10 a month like there they don't try to mislead you they don't try to [TS]

00:36:14 ◼   ► like get all sleazy in and get more money out of you it's just honest direct [TS]

00:36:18 ◼   ► straightforward domain sales and aeration system is very good to you know [TS]

00:36:22 ◼   ► they it's it's well-designed there's there's easy access to all the features [TS]

00:36:26 ◼   ► they offer and they do offer quite a lot and in fact they actually just added [TS]

00:36:31 ◼   ► something new they added Google Apps for Business [TS]

00:36:33 ◼   ► you can add Google Apps for Business to any demand from however new or old [TS]

00:36:38 ◼   ► demands they even give you a free 30 day trial on that and then prices are $6 a [TS]

00:36:44 ◼   ► month per user [TS]

00:36:46 ◼   ► it's really great so anyway I dot com slash ATP you can use promo code ATP to [TS]

00:36:52 ◼   ► get 10% off and you should of course you should do that i mean I used ants [TS]

00:36:56 ◼   ► Formica Trevor you can use ours [TS]

00:36:59 ◼   ► US-brokered att.com to get 10% off any two main purchase any service purchase [TS]

00:37:06 ◼   ► however the great company really they have they even have like they have no [TS]

00:37:09 ◼   ► food no hold phone service you just call them Monday through Friday 8:00 a.m. to [TS]

00:37:14 ◼   ► 8:00 p.m. Eastern and you'll be speaking to a live person they will just pick up [TS]

00:37:18 ◼   ► the phone and there's a person that's not a bot you don't have to say [TS]

00:37:21 ◼   ► representative track a package none of that stuff although such a terrible day [TS]

00:37:26 ◼   ► know that too [TS]

00:37:27 ◼   ► they don't do it they get you only human it's it's just great to go to Harvard [TS]

00:37:32 ◼   ► dot com slash ATP Dr next to me and use promo code ATP for 10% off thanks a lot [TS]

00:37:37 ◼   ► for sponsoring the show so to briefly speak in favor of core data so my really [TS]

00:37:45 ◼   ► crummy although soon-to-be not crummy since it's all street you I kids it's [TS]

00:37:48 ◼   ► gonna be my really crummy iPhone app which I wrote basically as an exercise [TS]

00:37:54 ◼   ► to teach myself how to write an iPhone happened that's allowed its called fast [TS]

00:37:59 ◼   ► tax to be and it's embarrassing and iOS 6 but it's going to be brilliant and I [TS]

00:38:03 ◼   ► was seven because I'm going to change virtually nothing at all just like [TS]

00:38:06 ◼   ► magical and pretty but in case the app doesn't do a whole heck of a lot the [TS]

00:38:13 ◼   ► point is to do one thing really quickly and that Sendak and text message to the [TS]

00:38:17 ◼   ► ideas you probably app you say you want to send it to which is presumably list [TS]

00:38:22 ◼   ► of people that already set up what message would want to send me back up [TS]

00:38:25 ◼   ► their backwards I think I did I haven't used it a couple days but anyway the [TS]

00:38:29 ◼   ► point is you pick who you pick what can you say go and that actually uses core [TS]

00:38:33 ◼   ► data and that is actually a really really great use of core data because [TS]

00:38:40 ◼   ► candidly it's very very simple it's two entities it's a total of like [TS]

00:38:44 ◼   ► 10 attributes between the two entities and it worked really well and one of the [TS]

00:38:49 ◼   ► things I like so much about it was that when I decided to add support for [TS]

00:38:54 ◼   ► sending messages to email addresses as well as just phone numbers I had to add [TS]

00:39:00 ◼   ► comment if you will and attribute to say well as this thing and email address or [TS]

00:39:06 ◼   ► number and obviously to parse out whatever the point in driving out there [TS]

00:39:11 ◼   ► was that I had to do according to migration and to be honest for me [TS]

00:39:14 ◼   ► because this was such a simple use case it actually worked really really well it [TS]

00:39:18 ◼   ► was really nice and I said in Xcode hey wanna make a new version of this model [TS]

00:39:24 ◼   ► here's what's different about it and I wrote a couple of lines of code in my [TS]

00:39:27 ◼   ► app delegate to handle it and everything just happened [TS]

00:39:31 ◼   ► magically and I've actually had no real issues with core data but to be fair [TS]

00:39:36 ◼   ► this is an extremely simple use case and to me I think that's what's great this [TS]

00:39:41 ◼   ► is quoted as bread and butter is to do something really simple all I want [TS]

00:39:46 ◼   ► wasn't way in which I can persist very small object graph and that's like out [TS]

00:39:51 ◼   ► of the book which I would look up at the developer for always up it's like how [TS]

00:39:55 ◼   ► did the book exactly what it is meant for so I agree with what you're saying [TS]

00:39:59 ◼   ► that in a lot of ways coordinators this really big scary abstraction that you [TS]

00:40:02 ◼   ► don't want to just relinquish her life to so to speak but for me it worked out [TS]

00:40:06 ◼   ► really really well you could've just used properly Alice I mean not just the [TS]

00:40:11 ◼   ► property of us back end of Cordoba like a literal profit like the volume of you [TS]

00:40:15 ◼   ► basically made like the sample application they would have you make no [TS]

00:40:21 ◼   ► I mean like the corn and apart like you know two entities like not a lot of them [TS]

00:40:25 ◼   ► I mean I don't know how many text messages take your applications are not [TS]

00:40:31 ◼   ► going to start 10,000 can text messages to the purpose of the application [TS]

00:40:35 ◼   ► quickly so like yeah you could have gotten away with the property is in fact [TS]

00:40:39 ◼   ► that's what a lot of people did absolutely i mean there's certain point [TS]

00:40:43 ◼   ► it becomes ridiculous but absolutely right now a lot of fast tax a lot of the [TS]

00:40:48 ◼   ► purpose of it was and a series of Engineering lessons and exercises for [TS]

00:40:53 ◼   ► myself [TS]

00:40:54 ◼   ► and part of the reason I used for data was just gonna I wanna see what it's all [TS]

00:40:58 ◼   ► about so everyone complains moans about it I can say oh yeah you know I [TS]

00:41:01 ◼   ► understand why you're saying that and and I could complain and moan with the [TS]

00:41:05 ◼   ► next guy but for me it actually worked out really nicely and I know you should [TS]

00:41:09 ◼   ► have plunged program sooner you can mention your program and I never [TS]

00:41:11 ◼   ► bothered looking but it wasn't I looked upon it was like something about this [TS]

00:41:15 ◼   ► week in my college that's a useful program you shouldn't you know I don't [TS]

00:41:18 ◼   ► know if there's a hundred other programs out there to do that and obviously don't [TS]

00:41:21 ◼   ► send text messages to people so that's why I'm not in that field but that's [TS]

00:41:25 ◼   ► exactly I think that would be a common category of program that can text [TS]

00:41:30 ◼   ► message sender well I don't know if it's comment but it was it was actually it's [TS]

00:41:35 ◼   ► funny hearing Marco talked about a lot of the things that he's talked about [TS]

00:41:38 ◼   ► both in building analyzing here it was a very funny exercise an interesting [TS]

00:41:42 ◼   ► exercise for me because I I'd love to be able to just magically invent the next [TS]

00:41:47 ◼   ► Instapaper and be able to do something [TS]

00:41:50 ◼   ► independently and and right now you have any competition exactly but I'm driving [TS]

00:41:56 ◼   ► it is it'd be cool to to not work for myself but I feel like I need that [TS]

00:42:01 ◼   ► magical idea and so flashback to I think was I was four when I wanna say MF [TS]

00:42:06 ◼   ► message compose new controller whatever it is basically they added the ability [TS]

00:42:10 ◼   ► for an app to send text messages and so I found that out at WTC which causes [TS]

00:42:16 ◼   ► 2011 doesn't matter I found out of that WBC that other gonna do this now like I [TS]

00:42:21 ◼   ► know what I can do with that and so I had to figure out how do you build and [TS]

00:42:28 ◼   ► ship the app in in order to I wanted to be in on day one of Iowa's for and so [TS]

00:42:33 ◼   ► the reason I think it's so funny is because in the smallest littlest way [TS]

00:42:39 ◼   ► this was Casey sized exercise and doing the sorts of things that that many of my [TS]

00:42:45 ◼   ► peers do for a living and that I had an idea and I needed to execute and I [TS]

00:42:50 ◼   ► needed to execute a certain date not unlike what say underscore did with feed [TS]

00:42:54 ◼   ► Wrangler and it was just a very funny thing and that's why it was a really [TS]

00:42:58 ◼   ► rewarding because I was able to get this little appropriately sized view of the [TS]

00:43:03 ◼   ► world that alot of my my good friends and peers and I that's kind of a side [TS]

00:43:09 ◼   ► note but I was it's fine it's it's a very simple out but it's very useful I [TS]

00:43:14 ◼   ► use it all the time so if you didn't write that Apple into the App Store like [TS]

00:43:18 ◼   ► if you look at the competitors are there other applications that their well-known [TS]

00:43:22 ◼   ► one that most people use that I know about it I was into texting I don't know [TS]

00:43:26 ◼   ► if there's a well-known one i mean it's because there's no Instapaper of the [TS]

00:43:29 ◼   ► market if there if there is I don't know it's me honest and I've never taken the [TS]

00:43:34 ◼   ► app was not a money-making venture in fact I probably put a couple hundred [TS]

00:43:38 ◼   ► dollars into it that I haven't gotten out I mean I've gotten a checkup gotten [TS]

00:43:42 ◼   ► checks from Apple for it but I have spent more between the hundred dollar [TS]

00:43:46 ◼   ► annual developer account and paying 40 bucks whatever was for a passive [TS]

00:43:51 ◼   ► expressed to hand draw the world's worst icon I was pretty proud of it to be [TS]

00:43:59 ◼   ► honest but it but if I sell its pretty damn thing that's good thank you for not [TS]

00:44:08 ◼   ► letting downtown now but you know like that actually is what speaking of you [TS]

00:44:13 ◼   ► know applications that that is a lot of the time what separates the application [TS]

00:44:18 ◼   ► that someone makes and like barely makes back its money and developer fees and [TS]

00:44:22 ◼   ► the one that does is putting in a little bit of extra money for her designer into [TS]

00:44:28 ◼   ► your icon and like getting the UI to look nicer like window-dressing [TS]

00:44:33 ◼   ► marketing type not marketing in terms of like paying money to advertise like when [TS]

00:44:38 ◼   ► someone sees your page what is the impression they get an apple hammer [TS]

00:44:40 ◼   ► since like raising WEC like the first impression selling gets when they glance [TS]

00:44:44 ◼   ► at your application is no reflection on the functionality of kitchen because if [TS]

00:44:49 ◼   ► there are a lot of these applications and can text messages whats going to [TS]

00:44:53 ◼   ► differentiate them is like the one that liked make someone feel good to have it [TS]

00:44:56 ◼   ► on their home screen feel good to launch it and use it every time they do they [TS]

00:45:00 ◼   ► feel good about that experience that's why I was seven such an opportunity [TS]

00:45:02 ◼   ► because allegations of you used to feel good about using now they will not feel [TS]

00:45:07 ◼   ► as good with you look older [TS]

00:45:11 ◼   ► you know and strange or whatever so that could have been all that separated you [TS]

00:45:15 ◼   ► from perhaps not Instapaper little success but at very least you know being [TS]

00:45:21 ◼   ► in the black instead of the red on lifetime for this application is just a [TS]

00:45:25 ◼   ► nicer icon a little bit nicer you I know you're absolutely right and some [TS]

00:45:29 ◼   ► screenshots with the puppies in there something you're absolutely right again [TS]

00:45:35 ◼   ► this was more was written in order for me to be able to myself and say you [TS]

00:45:41 ◼   ► don't want you did get something the App Store and even if everyone around you [TS]

00:45:45 ◼   ► thinks it's a flaming turd at least you can say you know what one way or another [TS]

00:45:49 ◼   ► that's mine and I did that and I wrote it at a time where I barely could write [TS]

00:45:53 ◼   ► hello world in Objective C and that's not to say that unstable and whatnot and [TS]

00:45:57 ◼   ► I'm driving at though is that it was a really great exercise to teach myself [TS]

00:46:02 ◼   ► this entire pipeline and I'm really glad I did it and I keep it there to be [TS]

00:46:06 ◼   ► honest if if I'm really candid I keep it there more as kind of a trophy to for [TS]

00:46:13 ◼   ► myself you look at what I was able to do and and everyone else who may have seen [TS]

00:46:18 ◼   ► it is listening may or may not be laughing about all that but I'm ok with [TS]

00:46:21 ◼   ► that because I'm so proud of it even though it looks like crap and I was six [TS]

00:46:25 ◼   ► but wait for Iowa seven it's going to be great I'm watching it is just climb the [TS]

00:46:30 ◼   ► ranks tonight as all two hundred and four Life leaders go out and buy it [TS]

00:46:34 ◼   ► something or if you have a Casey self-esteem sale where you don't buy to [TS]

00:46:39 ◼   ► use it to acknowledge casey's trophy it's fun and I got within four with my [TS]

00:46:46 ◼   ► iOS idea when they announced the SDK which was a joke tip calculator which I [TS]

00:46:51 ◼   ► wrote about half and then I see what I've said this before I wish I knew [TS]

00:46:58 ◼   ► there would be a busy enough because it's like five minutes to write and sure [TS]

00:47:02 ◼   ► enough there were busy [TS]

00:47:03 ◼   ► and the name of the application is it doesn't things which is probably [TS]

00:47:07 ◼   ► copyright infringement on seinfeld the US the joke about us have you heard of [TS]

00:47:13 ◼   ► it does other things yes have you ever seen Seinfeld yeah I think I've seen all [TS]

00:47:18 ◼   ► the news that line from let us forget what the context was any way you can [TS]

00:47:26 ◼   ► google for it doesn't think seinfeld find out it's not that funny which is [TS]

00:47:29 ◼   ► another reason why the application does not appear on this story but that's you [TS]

00:47:32 ◼   ► know I mean I I bailed out because I saw the writing on the wall but I would have [TS]

00:47:36 ◼   ► liked to have just gotten through the process there is a no go through the [TS]

00:47:39 ◼   ► process of working out application that does what I want to do then I i read in [TS]

00:47:46 ◼   ► these double that amount of time to get over it feel like now i cant chip is too [TS]

00:47:53 ◼   ► boring looking and then by that point eight thousand dollar typically come out [TS]

00:47:57 ◼   ► too late I would love to see you shipping up to anything I mean I don't [TS]

00:48:02 ◼   ► care what it didn't do I would just love to see like what you consider shippable [TS]

00:48:07 ◼   ► cause I honestly I'd be so I'd be shocked if you ever ship something like [TS]

00:48:11 ◼   ► that in public like I guess your reviews are are even larger scale a much larger [TS]

00:48:17 ◼   ► scale receptacles for feedback let's say people have opinions and they they offer [TS]

00:48:25 ◼   ► them on a training is much worse than putting on out I mean like when I get on [TS]

00:48:28 ◼   ► the open source code if at all the world's most of the prototype on CBS [TS]

00:48:32 ◼   ► from you is just terrible because there in years and years ago and I leave it up [TS]

00:48:36 ◼   ► there because like like somea be useful or whatever but it's kind of difficult [TS]

00:48:41 ◼   ► thing about working in a regular job trying to open source stuff to you have [TS]

00:48:47 ◼   ► something that you can like show as like here is an example of my cope by open [TS]

00:48:50 ◼   ► source stuff at this point I don't look at that time you like best the best [TS]

00:48:54 ◼   ► thing I can do everyone a job interview be like here is some sample code from an [TS]

00:48:58 ◼   ► open source projects and let me tell you what's wrong with it as a demonstration [TS]

00:49:01 ◼   ► of how I'm grown since I wrote this thing that's actually yeah but if you [TS]

00:49:08 ◼   ► want to show them is like here's my shipping out like that's what you know [TS]

00:49:11 ◼   ► to get a job and a place like look [TS]

00:49:13 ◼   ► this happen I'm also in the app is awesome hire me and I players who you [TS]

00:49:17 ◼   ► know in the door so to build on the thought of you [TS]

00:49:22 ◼   ► shipping something that people can see since you're a celebrity in the little [TS]

00:49:26 ◼   ► bubble in which we live [TS]

00:49:27 ◼   ► does that if you had a really good idea do you think that would prevent you or [TS]

00:49:31 ◼   ► scare you off but I'm always looking for a good idea since they won the tip [TS]

00:49:38 ◼   ► calculator you know like that's like me looking for an idea my my brothers also [TS]

00:49:42 ◼   ► constantly trying to look for an idea I had hired he's trying to look for to get [TS]

00:49:46 ◼   ► rich quick idea and I'm so much to be like that I would talk to him 90 [TS]

00:49:51 ◼   ► homepage for a line on the show I don't think but it may be the ultimate idea [TS]

00:49:57 ◼   ► where you have you have no money at risk no time really easy to do [TS]

00:50:01 ◼   ► makes money makes everybody happy was involved with the project is amusing to [TS]

00:50:05 ◼   ► people who are not involved with the project like that's that's pretty much [TS]

00:50:08 ◼   ► the best example of that I'm Rajab ever seen in my life and it doesn't always [TS]

00:50:13 ◼   ► happen quickly found ways to make money in the App Store [TS]

00:50:16 ◼   ► scummy and scan me and make people sad but that's not what we're looking for [TS]

00:50:20 ◼   ► and of course you can make money like the old-fashioned way by making good app [TS]

00:50:23 ◼   ► which is pretty hard not to but I'm out if I ever had an idea for a Mac App even [TS]

00:50:29 ◼   ► like it and I was your Mac up by an idea for an app that didn't exist that I [TS]

00:50:34 ◼   ► would like that I thought I could write I would do it but that stuff never comes [TS]

00:50:37 ◼   ► together you know it's always like to add a 313 but that's not directly [TS]

00:50:42 ◼   ► answering my question which is let's say you had this great idea and you fell at [TS]

00:50:46 ◼   ► least moderately confident that you could do at least moderately passable [TS]

00:50:49 ◼   ► job with the fact that you're mister hypercritical scare you away from no not [TS]

00:50:55 ◼   ► at all I mean if anything that should provide like a fountain of infinite [TS]

00:51:00 ◼   ► ideas because you can look at any app you use any app you ever need to use and [TS]

00:51:06 ◼   ► you can see if I did it it would be different in these ways to I wanted to [TS]

00:51:11 ◼   ► have it you think I would be capable of actually doing a better job thoroughly [TS]

00:51:14 ◼   ► wanna do it do have you noticed how much time it takes to make real operation [TS]

00:51:18 ◼   ► it's a big commitment to its I really good really need to be like something [TS]

00:51:22 ◼   ► like oh I've got [TS]

00:51:23 ◼   ► like that's it would have to be like that not just simply no I think I can [TS]

00:51:27 ◼   ► make a better one of those because it just takes so much time and I like any [TS]

00:51:31 ◼   ► notoriety might have would encourage me not discourage me because although all [TS]

00:51:35 ◼   ► that would translate to is like look for every every time point of Internet [TS]

00:51:39 ◼   ► notoriety I have that is one extra point on you know on the pond sales [TS]

00:51:44 ◼   ► possibilities right like it's not fair but that's the way it works like if [TS]

00:51:48 ◼   ► people know who you are to begin with then they'll know about your application [TS]

00:51:52 ◼   ► only say yes I should like up with the weariness and everything that use it [TS]

00:51:56 ◼   ► yes that would be the reason I would be doing it but it just would have to be a [TS]

00:52:00 ◼   ► fire and her mother like look like it was for you at buckshot look I just need [TS]

00:52:04 ◼   ► to Stop occasion to exist and we're at the point where you can read all that [TS]

00:52:07 ◼   ► often a week like I'm not that point so it has to be real I have to just be like [TS]

00:52:11 ◼   ► look I cannot sleep until I read this application because my ramp-up time of [TS]

00:52:15 ◼   ► significant starting from zero even that though like yeah I mean for me it was [TS]

00:52:19 ◼   ► like I'm experienced developers so it didn't take me that long to do all this [TS]

00:52:23 ◼   ► stuff the icon even accidentally made itself and then even that app I said I [TS]

00:52:29 ◼   ► I'll spend a couple of days doing this app that's all I can really justify [TS]

00:52:34 ◼   ► spending on it cuz it's going to make you know I 20 bucks a day for the next [TS]

00:52:37 ◼   ► two years you know so I can't justify doing a whole lot more on this app just [TS]

00:52:41 ◼   ► a few days of work so I get back to my my other stuff and a few days became [TS]

00:52:46 ◼   ► like 10 days like it was like seven days to build version one and then I got a [TS]

00:52:51 ◼   ► break while being approved and then within a few days of being released I [TS]

00:52:56 ◼   ► was working on 1.1 to fix all the bugs that everyone found and a couple of [TS]

00:53:00 ◼   ► minor enhancements and that took a couple more days so all in this is you [TS]

00:53:04 ◼   ► know almost two weeks solid for this app and you know and and I should clarify [TS]

00:53:10 ◼   ► the chatroom yeah it's gonna be 20 bucks a day maybe like you know maybe for the [TS]

00:53:16 ◼   ► next couple of months after that it might be a good time for 3000 and this [TS]

00:53:22 ◼   ► is not a joke and I probably shouldn't share this publicly but whatever I am [TS]

00:53:26 ◼   ► genuinely excited when I get a nap in the email and the number on it is [TS]

00:53:29 ◼   ► anything more than 0 [TS]

00:53:30 ◼   ► like awesome I just sold something to someone that's really exciting days [TS]

00:53:37 ◼   ► nothing shake your fist and I know you said that jokingly but that is not know [TS]

00:53:40 ◼   ► that I mean that I like what like when I made nursing clock last year the [TS]

00:53:46 ◼   ► breastfeeding timer I i released the head and even that took a little bit [TS]

00:53:50 ◼   ► longer than I thought it would even the Napa had almost no effort into it all [TS]

00:53:53 ◼   ► that took a few days to really polished and make it releasable any shape and [TS]

00:53:58 ◼   ► even that over its entire life it made i think seventy dollars and it wasn't it [TS]

00:54:04 ◼   ► wasn't a whole lot and I even ended up pulling it down after about six months [TS]

00:54:09 ◼   ► or so because there was somebody had tipped me off there was a patent troll [TS]

00:54:14 ◼   ► going around suing or threatening to sue people who made child care related apps [TS]

00:54:19 ◼   ► and even though mine was not wouldn't have applied for the patent applied we [TS]

00:54:26 ◼   ► all know that doesn't matter how I just like you know what this app is made like [TS]

00:54:30 ◼   ► $70 and six months it's not even worth the risk of having a potential come out [TS]

00:54:36 ◼   ► so I just put it down [TS]

00:54:38 ◼   ► posturing innovation exactly we should get to that actually but first let me [TS]

00:54:42 ◼   ► tell you about our second sponsor of this week is a new sponsor but you might [TS]

00:54:46 ◼   ► have heard of them recently another awesome shows and blogs they are 23 and [TS]

00:54:51 ◼   ► me so 23 me it's a pretty cool service it's a little hard to explain but here's [TS]

00:54:58 ◼   ► the gist of it they are a DNA profiling service and so or so here's what you do [TS]

00:55:06 ◼   ► you give them a basically they send you work it you give them a saliva sample [TS]

00:55:12 ◼   ► and you not like there's no blood volume saliva sample you sent it back in the [TS]

00:55:18 ◼   ► provider return package the lab analyzes it and then it gives you a full report [TS]

00:55:23 ◼   ► about what about you know stuff about you so here's the gist of it they give [TS]

00:55:28 ◼   ► you the tools to better understand how your genes may impact your health so [TS]

00:55:33 ◼   ► this helps you and your doctor find health areas to keep an eye on them over [TS]

00:55:38 ◼   ► two hundred and forty personalized health treatment ancestor reports [TS]

00:55:42 ◼   ► and they can help you understand your genetics so they give you any [TS]

00:55:46 ◼   ► information you can you can discover your global origin you can you can find [TS]

00:55:49 ◼   ► like if you have any like celebrity relatives they will give you a list of [TS]

00:55:52 ◼   ► celebrities that you can also find other living relatives through their analysis [TS]

00:55:58 ◼   ► they will be a quarter million members so this makes it the largest DNA [TS]

00:56:04 ◼   ► ancestry service in the world and so the chances of them finding something cool [TS]

00:56:07 ◼   ► about you are pretty good so anyway it includes a few fun points 2 goals like [TS]

00:56:14 ◼   ► how closely related you are to me and the excuse me they even can tell why you [TS]

00:56:21 ◼   ► may not like cilantro thats there's a gene for that they can tell you how [TS]

00:56:25 ◼   ► quickly you metabolize coffee which of course is cool for me to know so anyway [TS]

00:56:32 ◼   ► you can order your 23 and media make it today for just $99 at 23 @ me.com / ATP [TS]

00:56:39 ◼   ► at 23 and meet a number twenty-three in the words and me.com / ATP check it out [TS]

00:56:46 ◼   ► it's pretty cool and just a really great way for you know just to take a look at [TS]

00:56:52 ◼   ► your DNA and you learn some cool stuff about yourself [TS]

00:56:55 ◼   ► thanks a lot 23 and me for sponsoring the show is the Opera cotton avocado [TS]

00:57:01 ◼   ► asparagus pee smell gene is that it genetic thing or is that not everybody [TS]

00:57:06 ◼   ► know I mean it's a lot of asparagus and what I but I heard from third and was [TS]

00:57:13 ◼   ► like there was it was genetically related and that the people with the [TS]

00:57:16 ◼   ► gene made the piecemeal and they get some people without the gene therapy [TS]

00:57:23 ◼   ► today and they couldn't smell the other people's money P I thought he always [TS]

00:57:28 ◼   ► smells but only some resumes I mean I don't know I know nothing about one is [TS]

00:57:33 ◼   ► terrible here we go here to go 2023 meed.com / help / asparagus metabolites [TS]

00:57:40 ◼   ► detection of me has got it covered and it is really sad said aaron is a biology [TS]

00:57:48 ◼   ► teacher I could have asked her she was home at the moment but she is not [TS]

00:57:52 ◼   ► a good thing 23 meeting let us down anyway that's what else we talking about [TS]

00:58:01 ◼   ► you want talk about ask patents at all [TS]

00:58:05 ◼   ► John before so this was a strange sight that was made like months and months ago [TS]

00:58:12 ◼   ► as an attack me last year while a long time ago was the brainchild of Smokey [TS]

00:58:18 ◼   ► and the stock exchange guys in cooperation with the us- patent office i [TS]

00:58:22 ◼   ► believe even for from the get-go it's a stocking streamside like stackoverflow [TS]

00:58:26 ◼   ► whatever you ask questions or whatever but this one is meant to collaboratively [TS]

00:58:31 ◼   ► find prior art for patents so some of us to patent and other people try to lookup [TS]

00:58:36 ◼   ► priority foreign posted as the answer so basically the implied question all the [TS]

00:58:39 ◼   ► news here's a patent is there some priorities are and then you know anyone [TS]

00:58:44 ◼   ► can post an answer like oh here's the park service whatever and the goal of [TS]

00:58:48 ◼   ► the site was to be like ok well we all know that these plans are stupid trying [TS]

00:58:52 ◼   ► to patent things that shouldn't be patentable but it's really difficult [TS]

00:58:55 ◼   ► apparently for the US Patent Office to do the research necessary to find the [TS]

00:58:59 ◼   ► prior art even though I can we look at it like you just call the graphics [TS]

00:59:04 ◼   ► programmer than ask them and they'll tell you anyway and so that's what how [TS]

00:59:09 ◼   ► does this post to work and finally I think they got this is their very first [TS]

00:59:13 ◼   ► confirmed case where a patent was posted someone found an answer and the patent [TS]

00:59:18 ◼   ► was invalid and in the invalidation of the patent by the person the US Patent [TS]

00:59:22 ◼   ► Office they cited directly this answer on this site and Joel did the answer and [TS]

00:59:27 ◼   ► joe said it took like 10 minutes googling to find part because again it's [TS]

00:59:29 ◼   ► not hard to find products that the patents are awful right [TS]

00:59:33 ◼   ► journalists are called victory lap ask patents describing the sequence of [TS]

00:59:37 ◼   ► events and saying basically look this took me 10 minutes googling if you hate [TS]

00:59:40 ◼   ► patents in your you know it's offered to help or whatever [TS]

00:59:43 ◼   ► come onto our side kick a patent that you think it's stupid Google for a prior [TS]

00:59:47 ◼   ► art pasted in there and wait for the incredibly slow wheels of government [TS]

00:59:52 ◼   ► turn and six months later maybe that patent invalid and of course this is [TS]

00:59:56 ◼   ► Microsoft patent and they're appealing so who knows how it will [TS]

00:59:58 ◼   ► end up coming out but the interesting pitt plays into the show notes at the [TS]

01:00:04 ◼   ► joe says that his dream is that companies will hear about this site and [TS]

01:00:08 ◼   ► using offensive against other companies because if like Apple or Google Earth [TS]

01:00:12 ◼   ► Hour dedicates like one or two people to just go on that side and and look for [TS]

01:00:15 ◼   ► patterns that Google is applying for and spend 10 minutes to go fine apart from [TS]

01:00:20 ◼   ► them that it will become like you know spencer defensive end everybody finds [TS]

01:00:24 ◼   ► everything is good to have big patent portfolio but if each company also had [TS]

01:00:27 ◼   ► an offensive wing who all they did was watch their competitors and watch for [TS]

01:00:31 ◼   ► the Superdome patents that they apply for and invalidate the mall by finding [TS]

01:00:35 ◼   ► prior art that would be a good sort of mutually assured destruction scenario [TS]

01:00:39 ◼   ► where a large companies prevent each other from having terrible times of [TS]

01:00:44 ◼   ► course this is not the actual solution a solution would be from here maybe the [TS]

01:00:47 ◼   ► us- patent office could do this work is that you might harm Dec 10 minutes ago [TS]

01:00:50 ◼   ► and of course my position is that no patents that exists ever for anything [TS]

01:00:54 ◼   ► but anyway every little bit counts so I'm excited that at least one patent has [TS]

01:01:01 ◼   ► been at least if not then possibly delayed its trip to being a super dumb [TS]

01:01:07 ◼   ► patent so good job Joel and stack change its so called the singing that that that [TS]

01:01:13 ◼   ► ask parents even exists and ended the USPTO kind of encouraged it or at least [TS]

01:01:18 ◼   ► as is being friendly with it [TS]

01:01:22 ◼   ► there is of course no there there is that great question of you know joel is [TS]

01:01:26 ◼   ► a programmer and he could look at the stuff from from this Microsoft and he [TS]

01:01:31 ◼   ► cited and you know any others that you look on there and he said like you know [TS]

01:01:35 ◼   ► he assumed going into this that it would be pretty hard to to read pens and to [TS]

01:01:39 ◼   ► figure out what they are and who invited them but in fact once I started trying [TS]

01:01:42 ◼   ► to do it that was easier than he expected and it only takes a few minutes [TS]

01:01:47 ◼   ► to read about to reopen and into opposed to me going to do about how to read [TS]

01:01:51 ◼   ► patents in 60 seconds cuz they they all try to be very obvious skated to try to [TS]

01:01:56 ◼   ► get granted and try to try to get past any potential conflicts or duplicates or [TS]

01:02:01 ◼   ► to try to become more over-reaching otherwise would have liked that they did [TS]

01:02:06 ◼   ► it go for obfuscation to attempt to confuse the [TS]

01:02:10 ◼   ► patent examiners but the problem is you know if if one working programmer and [TS]

01:02:17 ◼   ► granite joel is a good and knowledgeable programmer but still if one programmer [TS]

01:02:21 ◼   ► can look at a patent application and and see kind of see through it that quickly [TS]

01:02:27 ◼   ► why doesn't the patent office why can't they do something similar quite like if [TS]

01:02:34 ◼   ► they can say yeah we can have some graphics programming techniques why [TS]

01:02:38 ◼   ► can't they either have or contract with graphics programmers to look at any [TS]

01:02:43 ◼   ► graphics related patents like that it's just I'm really glad ask patents exists [TS]

01:02:48 ◼   ► and obviously it needs to exist but why it needs to exist as kind of a problem [TS]

01:02:53 ◼   ► this is a government agency and they don't like that hiring money you can't [TS]

01:02:57 ◼   ► pay graphics programmer and their outsourcing the part that you know that [TS]

01:03:01 ◼   ► they they can't be done at scale because there's a limited number of patent [TS]

01:03:05 ◼   ► employees they just those employees only know about patents and there nothing [TS]

01:03:09 ◼   ► about you know the domain areas and the same token Joe could not have written [TS]

01:03:14 ◼   ► that ridiculous document that you know codifies the invite the rejection of the [TS]

01:03:19 ◼   ► patent Joe could not have written that because that requires the lawyer-like [TS]

01:03:23 ◼   ► expertise the people in the patent office in like what form you have to do [TS]

01:03:26 ◼   ► things and one what is a valid rejection and what must you like that's the skill [TS]

01:03:30 ◼   ► that they're bringing to the table you know that to be able to navigate this [TS]

01:03:35 ◼   ► legal aid lawyers like you know you may have an intuitive feel of you know [TS]

01:03:41 ◼   ► what's right and wrong and had approved things but if you're not a lawyer you [TS]

01:03:43 ◼   ► don't know how to actually do it right so this is just fine if you like the [TS]

01:03:48 ◼   ► look you find me the prior art and then the us- patent offices will take it from [TS]

01:03:51 ◼   ► here so you did that part of the work for us we'll take that and probably [TS]

01:03:55 ◼   ► spend ten times as much time doing this stupid legal use dance and this formal [TS]

01:03:59 ◼   ► document structure to reject the patent and bring it through this building [TS]

01:04:02 ◼   ► bureaucratic just try clicking through to their rejection he's like explains [TS]

01:04:06 ◼   ► how to find the rejection is like the preliminary draft projection finalized [TS]

01:04:11 ◼   ► for my trying to read it it just you know not penetrate even the rejection of [TS]

01:04:16 ◼   ► the patent let alone that is something that that had a dependency second is [TS]

01:04:19 ◼   ► good because it tells you just ignore everything go right to the second look [TS]

01:04:22 ◼   ► at these three things [TS]

01:04:23 ◼   ► gone it's it's a broken stupid bureaucratic system that doesn't work [TS]

01:04:29 ◼   ► right and this does not make it better like the security but if anything that [TS]

01:04:34 ◼   ► stops crappy patents from getting granted is a good thing so and this was [TS]

01:04:39 ◼   ► just you know like sort of the community trying to make government better maybe [TS]

01:04:44 ◼   ► not against their will but certainly like what we're here to help you in [TS]

01:04:47 ◼   ► government saying okay we will accept your help in this matter and then it [TS]

01:04:51 ◼   ► producing at least one actual result was a brilliant idea if people are into it [TS]

01:04:56 ◼   ► but it it seems to me that it's tough to get people into it said differently you [TS]

01:05:02 ◼   ► know here it is the the patent office is sorta kinda reaching out to the [TS]

01:05:06 ◼   ► community and saying haiti people who are experts in these things that patents [TS]

01:05:11 ◼   ► are going to help us find this priority but the key is at their annual we're [TS]

01:05:15 ◼   ► experts [TS]

01:05:16 ◼   ► joel is an expert at least you could easily argue as such and i dont know how [TS]

01:05:21 ◼   ► the patent office works internally but I got to imagine they don't have an expert [TS]

01:05:24 ◼   ► for every darn field of patentable stuff under the Sun and so it it strikes me as [TS]

01:05:30 ◼   ► a brilliant idea but I'm not sure that when I get bored on a weekday evening [TS]

01:05:36 ◼   ► night I'm gonna sit there cruising for patents to shoot down the radio he's [TS]

01:05:40 ◼   ► like who is actually sufficiently motivated to use the Site and who [TS]

01:05:45 ◼   ► savagely motivated are the companies who get patents because they may have a [TS]

01:05:49 ◼   ► financial incentive to prevent Apple has a financial incentive to make every [TS]

01:05:53 ◼   ► single Google patent Google files be invalidate right and vice versa cool as [TS]

01:05:57 ◼   ► that same motivate you know so if you can get these big companies with tons of [TS]

01:06:01 ◼   ► money to put even a few people on this it's so easy to do because you're going [TS]

01:06:05 ◼   ► to be invalid and pans in like in a demanding to know that Apple probably [TS]

01:06:08 ◼   ► knows about the demands to Google's gonna file patents and vice versa [TS]

01:06:11 ◼   ► because they're both in the same industry get all these guys to instead [TS]

01:06:14 ◼   ► of spending all their energy patenting everything under the Sun take part of [TS]

01:06:18 ◼   ► their energy because now they suddenly they have been employees used to be [TS]

01:06:21 ◼   ► you had no way to get your other guys patents invalid it yet to wait for them [TS]

01:06:24 ◼   ► to be granted rejected then you could try to validate the court where is now [TS]

01:06:27 ◼   ► at the patent office is like look we're willing to accept some help here this [TS]

01:06:32 ◼   ► pattern has been applied for here's the application [TS]

01:06:35 ◼   ► and Apple goes out and finds prior art and headed off the pass like I do I [TS]

01:06:40 ◼   ► don't know if these companies are actually gonna do that but they're the [TS]

01:06:42 ◼   ► ones who have both the motivation and the skills to do this I think would be [TS]

01:06:47 ◼   ► gradual because I had all patents and like I said nothing that would cure this [TS]

01:06:51 ◼   ► whole problem is just to eliminate the entire patent system and office and all [TS]

01:06:54 ◼   ► the employees and all the legal framework and everything involved with [TS]

01:06:57 ◼   ► it I would also cure this problem and solution but that would actually promote [TS]

01:07:01 ◼   ► innovation people don't wanna hear that so but anyway like you know you don't [TS]

01:07:05 ◼   ► hit that that's fine we'll start with this this would be fun to both you and I [TS]

01:07:10 ◼   ► i believe separately argued on our respective 505 podcasts couple of years [TS]

01:07:14 ◼   ► ago I think we both argued that basically the entire patents should be [TS]

01:07:19 ◼   ► abolished is is that I mean that the fact that all the stuff is necessary is [TS]

01:07:27 ◼   ► an end I think what bothers me about it in a knot not to go too deep into the [TS]

01:07:33 ◼   ► system should be just that would be a horror show but I think what bugs me so [TS]

01:07:38 ◼   ► much about it is like this is it a problem that just cannot be soft well [TS]

01:07:43 ◼   ► like it is just so like the patent office can't be expected to get [TS]

01:07:49 ◼   ► everything right but they get things wrong a lot and the ramifications of [TS]

01:07:55 ◼   ► that in the market are so incredibly destructive i mean it like whatever [TS]

01:08:01 ◼   ► benefit patents are providing to people I have to imagine there's an equal or [TS]

01:08:06 ◼   ► greater amount of harm that they're causing especially in the field of [TS]

01:08:09 ◼   ► software and it just seems like there's just no good solution to this but I am I [TS]

01:08:15 ◼   ► am very well that ends at least attempting to it is improving it in in [TS]

01:08:22 ◼   ► one small way and let my objection was less practical more ideological I don't [TS]

01:08:26 ◼   ► think there's any reason you should have a monopoly rights to an idea . like it's [TS]

01:08:30 ◼   ► not as if like you know what if the patent office was perfect in every [TS]

01:08:34 ◼   ► respect no such thing there is no right there is far as I'm concerned there is [TS]

01:08:38 ◼   ► no right to monopoly on an idea that you come up with no matter how awesome that [TS]

01:08:43 ◼   ► I did period the end and so that if if that's your position [TS]

01:08:46 ◼   ► that's my position obviously there's no such thing as a patent office that that [TS]

01:08:50 ◼   ► works its just know it it's an office that only works if not exists because [TS]

01:08:54 ◼   ► it's enforcing a right but I don't think is valid thing that you should you [TS]

01:08:58 ◼   ► should just you shouldn't get a monopoly on an idea you shouldn't ever the end [TS]

01:09:01 ◼   ► but you know there's a huge continuing down to the pragmatic it sound like I [TS]

01:09:05 ◼   ► think you should but it's impossible to correctly therefore should be gone all [TS]

01:09:08 ◼   ► have to like oh I think it should be gone for software because there's no [TS]

01:09:11 ◼   ► such thing as a software patents this all math and everything's turned [TS]

01:09:14 ◼   ► completely blood like and business process patents shouldn't exist and [TS]

01:09:17 ◼   ► whole grains and I talked about in my shower went to right for the jugular [TS]

01:09:21 ◼   ► which is like 20 patents on drugs which everything's alright you hear all the [TS]

01:09:25 ◼   ► other patents but we need these because otherwise no one will ever do any [TS]

01:09:27 ◼   ► research and data cure disease and I talked about it like there we should [TS]

01:09:30 ◼   ► rehashed here but anyway that's a terrible [TS]

01:09:34 ◼   ► kids get them doesn't mean we're done it seems like a pretty good place tend to [TS]

01:09:42 ◼   ► me yeah I think so all right thank you very much to our to sponsor this week [TS]

01:09:46 ◼   ► however and 23 and me and we'll see you guys soon [TS]

01:09:52 ◼   ► now the show they didn't even mean to be in accidental accidental john Kasay [TS]

01:10:08 ◼   ► and you can t be L A T Marco [TS]

01:10:51 ◼   ► I just sold something to someone if your gonna make fun of me so much less dirty [TS]

01:10:58 ◼   ► way of doing it has that was me talking about how excited I am that whenever I [TS]

01:11:03 ◼   ► see you a singular sail fast i text someone tried to do JavaScript injection [TS]

01:11:07 ◼   ► I appreciate the end of those they stand for the JavaScript automatic semicolon [TS]

01:11:14 ◼   ► surgeon say no to put it explicitly so it's not confused and yes the people who [TS]

01:11:20 ◼   ► wrote this robot application have minimal competence of web programmers [TS]

01:11:23 ◼   ► has not been given all the websites that I see they won't let me type telephone [TS]

01:11:33 ◼   ► numbers with hyphens and them apparently apparently the bar has been raised about [TS]

01:11:40 ◼   ► american express where the maximum character for a password is 88 like [TS]

01:11:46 ◼   ► that's probably dictate about their their their COBOL basic mainframe [TS]

01:11:50 ◼   ► enterprise or something but the guys who don't like your type like stuff with the [TS]

01:11:53 ◼   ► phone numbers they want you don't type digits you can type anything else that I [TS]

01:11:57 ◼   ► just want to go to all their houses and find them and be like no one is making [TS]

01:12:01 ◼   ► you do this like this this is literally the simplest possible task but a program [TS]

01:12:07 ◼   ► on the web has it is clearly close there are no edge cases all you gotta do is [TS]

01:12:13 ◼   ► just let me type of the numbers not rocket science like nothing no task is [TS]

01:12:19 ◼   ► easier than every other part of accepting that forms admission is higher [TS]

01:12:22 ◼   ► than that one task and yet being Fortune 500 companies will have forms the [TS]

01:12:26 ◼   ► delicious how many things have numbers and the like but you put alerts [TS]

01:12:30 ◼   ► automatically backspace to feel like the automatic backspacing code that's more [TS]

01:12:33 ◼   ► complicated than stripping out the stuff that's just it boggles my mind that this [TS]

01:12:37 ◼   ► goes on and I went to a regular people think you don't know like that is [TS]

01:12:40 ◼   ► literally the easiest thing in the entire world of a program to do with it [TS]

01:12:43 ◼   ► was like oh I can see how to do this when this item must be really secure so [TS]

01:12:48 ◼   ► let me tell you a story that that we cannot put in the show has really [TS]

01:12:51 ◼   ► embarrassing which means it's probably doomed to be in the show when I [TS]

01:12:54 ◼   ► and I are getting married I wrote in PHP and I think was my first PHP app I wrote [TS]

01:13:00 ◼   ► a website that that would like guests you know register RCP among other things [TS]

01:13:06 ◼   ► and good friend of mine his surname has an 'n it and I noticed after he [TS]

01:13:12 ◼   ► registered because I had this like totally weirdo setups where I would [TS]

01:13:16 ◼   ► email my phone to send my phone a text message back when that was still a thing [TS]

01:13:20 ◼   ► anyways so he registered and everything was cut off as soon as I hit the 'n his [TS]

01:13:26 ◼   ► name because I didn't escape anything cuz I didn't know crap about what [TS]

01:13:29 ◼   ► program it's time in fact I told myself sequel in order to write that cite this [TS]

01:13:33 ◼   ► was in 2007 I was always learning in the client and tell them to people who don't [TS]

01:13:38 ◼   ► learn from the past due I remember the first time I looked at the ActiveRecord [TS]

01:13:41 ◼   ► code in Rails find parameters that the technology that has existed since [TS]

01:13:47 ◼   ► forever and like I just know that makes it go by Carrie the other strings and in [TS]

01:13:55 ◼   ► line all the values and what could go wrong we have an escaping function [TS]

01:13:58 ◼   ► should be fine right that's how they were doing it I believe the first [TS]

01:14:05 ◼   ► version of rails was not using bind parameters and their queries they were [TS]

01:14:07 ◼   ► not they would build the sequel strings out of values you know and like I [TS]

01:14:12 ◼   ► believe they hadn't escaping function of their own devising which would be like [TS]

01:14:16 ◼   ► oh you see is just double it or whatever and if this was an ActiveRecord I'm [TS]

01:14:21 ◼   ► sliding over else when I shouldn't be I'm sorry but he trails with any other [TS]

01:14:27 ◼   ► type of thing I see it all the time of like people who write database code in [TS]

01:14:32 ◼   ► the modern era this year and don't know that by members existing just bravely [TS]

01:14:37 ◼   ► plow forward Casey to know you know escaping with something you might wanna [TS]

01:14:41 ◼   ► do but the people who like that I find more excusable then the people who know [TS]

01:14:46 ◼   ► that you have to escape so they write their own escape from they still feel [TS]

01:14:49 ◼   ► like this is the best way to do it like this once you know it's a problem you [TS]

01:14:52 ◼   ► would think you sent three seconds googling like oh I see this is a problem [TS]

01:14:55 ◼   ► import and I but there's some sort of technique to not have it anymore [TS]

01:15:01 ◼   ► look that up with people on this is not an eight-year languages may be kind of [TS]

01:15:07 ◼   ► is that you find it had either one of you ever heard of this dot net equipment [TS]

01:15:12 ◼   ► but I cargo in your things you can do so I was probably like you know the system [TS]

01:15:15 ◼   ► call the word system sells out to the right have you ever had to do that just [TS]

01:15:21 ◼   ► like not gonna happen I don't think you can do it and I probably forbidden but [TS]

01:15:25 ◼   ► at any rate people who do that like no you know you don't come to a part of the [TS]

01:15:33 ◼   ► program I mean Apple itself probably does it have already Mac apps back on [TS]

01:15:36 ◼   ► the Oprah sandbox news they'll build the strength and they'll pass that strange [TS]

01:15:40 ◼   ► system right and when you're building a string or do you have to do the [TS]

01:15:45 ◼   ► following a space that has caused him i right now I can go through the same [TS]

01:15:49 ◼   ► thing it's like people you're in steel like this a million functions that you [TS]

01:15:54 ◼   ► can use to fork and exec the take like a list of variable you know previous [TS]

01:15:58 ◼   ► methods that the take variables the plan was you don't need the shell to parse it [TS]

01:16:02 ◼   ► for you don't understand you can bypass that you're in a program your program [TS]

01:16:06 ◼   ► you can write code just as the United I mean Apple itself doesn't like their pro [TS]

01:16:11 ◼   ► stuff and I go if you're if your hard drive name has a space and then him and [TS]

01:16:15 ◼   ► you have one has the same man without the prefix for the space of two leaders [TS]

01:16:19 ◼   ► like iTunes installer the debtor may be with the myth to install a couple that [TS]

01:16:25 ◼   ► various times in the same is the same exact problem is the sequel things but [TS]

01:16:27 ◼   ► they're like I will just build a big long string of passing through what [TS]

01:16:31 ◼   ► could go wrong instead of it basically what you have is a list of values and [TS]

01:16:37 ◼   ► they said yeah but every time I see this as the values among normal life is one [TS]

01:16:41 ◼   ► big long strings on making into a string and then give it to something that will [TS]

01:16:44 ◼   ► break into list that I already had one of the strengths yeah I know that [TS]

01:16:52 ◼   ► progress in certain areas but to make progress not by teaching people the [TS]

01:16:56 ◼   ► right way to do things that make it so they never had to do that thing again [TS]

01:17:02 ◼   ► John I love when you get fired up after the show however I didn't get talked [TS]

01:17:08 ◼   ► about Minecraft months something that's gonna be angry I'm trying to mellow out [TS]

01:17:14 ◼   ► now gotta get a little under control no don't don't don't get talk about let's [TS]

01:17:20 ◼   ► talk about Laura before the next show whatever that maybe you should be forced [TS]

01:17:27 ◼   ► to install Minecraft and several miles on behalf of if you don't need one of [TS]

01:17:33 ◼   ► you has a child of the age to come play minecraft maybe just like borrow one for [TS]

01:17:36 ◼   ► the weekend and had them ask you to install Minecraft mods they want and [TS]

01:17:40 ◼   ► just spend a week in doing that they knew also be sufficiently angry for us [TS]

01:17:44 ◼   ► to have an awesome minecraft mod anger episode occasion if I get bored while [TS]

01:17:50 ◼   ► I'm on vacation I will do is find a neighborhood kids come over my house and [TS]

01:17:55 ◼   ► then install Minecraft mods that's not creepy at all your wife do it so now I [TS]

01:18:03 ◼   ► gotta get I getting it into your eyes and say just pretend you're into [TS]

01:18:06 ◼   ► Minecraft mass-market hey I saw this school thing could you install Minecraft [TS]

01:18:10 ◼   ► mods for me cuz when your wife as he was just as bad [TS]

01:18:13 ◼   ► although I don't wanna play minecraft is more of a good thing but actually TIFF [TS]

01:18:19 ◼   ► try to I I've never played Minecraft snoring but but if actually played it [TS]

01:18:24 ◼   ► for like one night and just didn't really do much but she didn't live from [TS]

01:18:29 ◼   ► when I like a few bucks a month ago but I really I'm kind of scared you know [TS]

01:18:34 ◼   ► like I don't have to try heroin to know that I probably should never try her [TS]

01:18:39 ◼   ► right leg so I know enough about like hard drugs and their addictiveness to [TS]

01:18:46 ◼   ► know that I should never even attempt them crushed clause welt both so same [TS]

01:18:54 ◼   ► things like when I heard the game is like super addictive and like takes over [TS]

01:18:58 ◼   ► people's lives like I don't have to play it i dont have im not let me try that no [TS]

01:19:02 ◼   ► I'm like you know what I don't want your wife to identify I scared her away with [TS]

01:19:09 ◼   ► with with man candy crush [TS]

01:19:11 ◼   ► so so so test phone had it was it iPhone 5 had a feeling sleep-wake but which I [TS]

01:19:19 ◼   ► guess is a very common problem and so I took it I took it to the Apple people [TS]

01:19:22 ◼   ► and they spotted and so great come up with a new phone every and we packed up [TS]

01:19:27 ◼   ► and it did the whole synced locally to iTunes like that morning every app all [TS]

01:19:34 ◼   ► the music all the photos the entire teaching everything restored perfectly [TS]

01:19:39 ◼   ► except candy crush for whatever reason can you crush did not restore just was [TS]

01:19:45 ◼   ► not there on the phone so TIFF has lost her progress and candy crush and this is [TS]

01:19:51 ◼   ► this is out of service so the way she's been playing it you know like when we [TS]

01:19:59 ◼   ► first heard about it I believe from Amy Jane Gruber on one of her various [TS]

01:20:03 ◼   ► podcasts I saw or somewhere Twitter or something that I I got the impression [TS]

01:20:09 ◼   ► that it was extremely addictive and that it could just take all your money [TS]

01:20:12 ◼   ► because you could just anything like buy your way out of time limits at all in [TS]

01:20:16 ◼   ► all the crap that the free-to-play BS games do and say I was like I do not [TS]

01:20:23 ◼   ► install again because he'll take all the money it like just suck away everything [TS]

01:20:27 ◼   ► we have everything we've worked for it all the money will be gone so to prove [TS]

01:20:33 ◼   ► that I was wrong about that TIFF has played the entire game not spending any [TS]

01:20:37 ◼   ► money and and intends to continue that way but apparently it's pretty hard game [TS]

01:20:43 ◼   ► and it's pretty hard not to spend money which is why they make so much so she's [TS]

01:20:49 ◼   ► gone she's like spent hours this week playing this game and and now it's [TS]

01:20:55 ◼   ► restored and gone and of course they don't use any kind of iCloud or games or [TS]

01:21:00 ◼   ► any that of course they don't do anything right in programming thing to [TS]

01:21:04 ◼   ► actually make it keep your progress no doubt that would cost too much money [TS]

01:21:07 ◼   ► that would cause people to not buy upgrade so of course they don't do that [TS]

01:21:10 ◼   ► because game these days my rent [TS]

01:21:14 ◼   ► thanks a lot program but yes so i i wonder how this is gonna play out now [TS]

01:21:22 ◼   ► you can shop to buy her way out of this if I'll have to buy her way out of it [TS]

01:21:25 ◼   ► out of guilt for somehow not having this thing synched with just that out she [TS]

01:21:29 ◼   ► wants to bang your head against a very difficult to play applications super [TS]

01:21:33 ◼   ► hexagon are possible road or something which do not ask her now purchases but [TS]

01:21:37 ◼   ► will nevertheless frustrate her for a lifetime [TS]

01:21:41 ◼   ► madness whose alarms going off that's that's over here and there is like my [TS]

01:21:48 ◼   ► car wash is closed [TS]

01:21:49 ◼   ► think it's me and I want my windows are closed to you know all those all those [TS]

01:21:56 ◼   ► times that I played Marble Madness after having spent $40 on it being so [TS]

01:22:01 ◼   ► disappointed how much it sucks my Genesis all that time the game only has [TS]

01:22:06 ◼   ► six levels yes six levels for $40 I never beat it [TS]

01:22:11 ◼   ► level 6 it the whole game is really really hard at level 6 is just like it's [TS]

01:22:15 ◼   ► so ridiculous I just I could not ever beat it like a supermodel call for your [TS]

01:22:22 ◼   ► game to be able to play GameCube games that is the probably the most difficult [TS]

01:22:27 ◼   ► console game that i played and enjoyed because no I haven't played Dark Souls [TS]

01:22:32 ◼   ► people listening [TS]

01:22:33 ◼   ► games are more forgiving now than they were just having like progress saving [TS]

01:22:39 ◼   ► that he's a massive massive ease jump in a separate doesn't mean you might have [TS]

01:22:51 ◼   ► heard of them played every play super hexagon know what was that for for [TS]

01:22:55 ◼   ► making yourself feel incompetent you know what [TS]

01:22:59 ◼   ► yeah and you should get it just because I think it's a really well done game [TS]

01:23:08 ◼   ► that has really nice music that you have seen this if you hear you will hear [TS]

01:23:12 ◼   ► three seconds before you die [TS]

01:23:13 ◼   ► yeah I seen this idea I played it for about eight seconds and then you are not [TS]

01:23:17 ◼   ► continuously made seconds cumulatively all all all if you could stay live 48 [TS]

01:23:22 ◼   ► seconds that would be something I don't i dont like games like this like any [TS]

01:23:26 ◼   ► like I also never cared for like games like Canabalt and anything that's like [TS]

01:23:32 ◼   ► just fast action just go until you die or anything like that I I just don't get [TS]

01:23:37 ◼   ► discouraged so quickly and easily from these games like you should never play [TS]

01:23:41 ◼   ► New Super Monkey Ball don't like it has easy level so it's fun it's fun to play [TS]

01:23:46 ◼   ► like that the only game like that I have been motivated enough to play be like it [TS]

01:23:50 ◼   ► starts you know it's not so easy I go to spawn and it's interesting it was nice [TS]

01:23:53 ◼   ► to look at [TS]

01:23:54 ◼   ► music and mentally challenging but the difficulty just goes on forever and it [TS]

01:23:59 ◼   ► is certainly one of those games where in america you are as human beings [TS]

01:24:02 ◼   ► exception of seven people in the world that you will reach the limits of your [TS]

01:24:05 ◼   ► ability but only after a satisfying trail up to that level instead of just [TS]

01:24:09 ◼   ► like how to place immediately you suck now from from second 0 yeosock a [TS]

01:24:16 ◼   ► possible role as I think it actually I have played enough to know its probably [TS]

01:24:21 ◼   ► a little bit harder than super hexagon but I can't really tell Marco of you did [TS]

01:24:25 ◼   ► you get into tiny wings when that was popular now I've seen it I think I [TS]

01:24:30 ◼   ► played on someone else's phone or something like that one like I've never [TS]

01:24:33 ◼   ► played cannibal an obscene amount of people's phones but I like time I don't [TS]

01:24:37 ◼   ► hear that often but I like it like there was some kind of like skiing version of [TS]

01:24:43 ◼   ► that I played for like an hour one time but that like i just i i dont have the [TS]

01:24:48 ◼   ► patience to like once I get going really far and one of those games and I die and [TS]

01:24:54 ◼   ► start over again like I just don't care I'm so discouraged by having to start [TS]

01:24:59 ◼   ► over again at that point and playing the exact same thing over and over again [TS]

01:25:02 ◼   ► even if it's like a little bit varied from like random generation of [TS]

01:25:06 ◼   ► procedural stuff i cant even then I just [TS]

01:25:08 ◼   ► hate going back that's what one of the reasons why I was playing through vice [TS]

01:25:11 ◼   ► city with no actually GTA 3 playing through it and I almost beat the game [TS]

01:25:20 ◼   ► but there is one mission where it took like 15 minutes to do the mission and it [TS]

01:25:26 ◼   ► was a timed thing where you had to do it within 15 minutes and I kept getting [TS]

01:25:30 ◼   ► within like 10 seconds of succeeding and just barely missing it and I get stopped [TS]

01:25:34 ◼   ► playing a game like I just never proceeded past that point out after like [TS]

01:25:38 ◼   ► a few days of ban on that mission and doing at like seven or eight times and [TS]

01:25:41 ◼   ► failing every single one I just got done that's it I get everyone back it was it [TS]

01:25:48 ◼   ► was the it was a missionary driver and ran across all the coffee stands in like [TS]

01:25:52 ◼   ► seven different parts of the town I bet everyone playing GTA GTA 3 probably [TS]

01:25:57 ◼   ► remembers that mission and possibly stop playing it so this is what one of the [TS]

01:26:01 ◼   ► rights of passage of anyone who will eventually come to identify themselves [TS]

01:26:04 ◼   ► as a gamer is that everyone eventually meets the game with the frustrating [TS]

01:26:08 ◼   ► level or the the difficult things they feel like they never going to get past [TS]

01:26:11 ◼   ► and people who vote later in life call themselves a gamer get through that and [TS]

01:26:18 ◼   ► be considered like a personal triumph and move on from it and once you've done [TS]

01:26:21 ◼   ► that once you realize that there is nothing in the game that I can do I can [TS]

01:26:28 ◼   ► always persevere it's just a question of doing it like it's not like it's not [TS]

01:26:32 ◼   ► like a value judgment like if you decide your time is better spent doing [TS]

01:26:34 ◼   ► something else then find a ride on the same like the people who do you make [TS]

01:26:38 ◼   ► that decision to say you know what I'm going in this totally inconsequential [TS]

01:26:41 ◼   ► place where there's no reason for me to do this there's no reward waiting for [TS]

01:26:45 ◼   ► the end of it no one's gonna care that I did it I'm just a low near my house I've [TS]

01:26:48 ◼   ► decided you know what I'm going to do this and eventually you do do it it's an [TS]

01:26:52 ◼   ► amazing feeling and gives you like a belief in yourself that it shouldn't be [TS]

01:26:57 ◼   ► this like all you did was you press buttons on the controller like this has [TS]

01:26:59 ◼   ► no bearing on succeed in life or anything like that but it feels amazing [TS]

01:27:03 ◼   ► right and that's that's the great thing for people who are gamers that's the [TS]

01:27:07 ◼   ► amazing thing about games like super hexagon is because it takes that gamer [TS]

01:27:11 ◼   ► sense of thinking that there's nothing you can't beat and saying you know [TS]

01:27:16 ◼   ► actually here try this [TS]

01:27:18 ◼   ► and it's the hits like for one set of people like this is a new experience [TS]

01:27:22 ◼   ► because at this point every challenge to have come across I've had been able to [TS]

01:27:25 ◼   ► surpass so it's it's going to bring some people to say I have reached my limits [TS]

01:27:30 ◼   ► as a human being [TS]

01:27:31 ◼   ► number I realize now after years of experience of being things that this is [TS]

01:27:35 ◼   ► one place that I I can't go any farther and then at first even smaller [TS]

01:27:39 ◼   ► percentage of people it's gonna make them initially think that in they are [TS]

01:27:42 ◼   ► gonna do and they're gonna be like I am now God there is it like it's it's like [TS]

01:27:48 ◼   ► if you after you've had drugs in hours like you've got a tolerance right and [TS]

01:27:52 ◼   ► the only way for you to get any sort of highest to get in the situation that is [TS]

01:27:56 ◼   ► basically impossible and either be defeated and had that be novel sensation [TS]

01:28:00 ◼   ► or break through anyway and be like there's now nothing I can do you know [TS]

01:28:03 ◼   ► you are very far at the end of that spectrum having friends there any is [TS]

01:28:09 ◼   ► there any game experience you've done where you feel like there's no way I'm [TS]

01:28:12 ◼   ► going to be this you forgetting to put the game down to put away for six months [TS]

01:28:14 ◼   ► and eventually say you know what I'm gonna be bad you come back to it [TS]

01:28:17 ◼   ► six-month gap in any kind of thing where you feel like you've heard decide about [TS]

01:28:20 ◼   ► this is impossible [TS]

01:28:22 ◼   ► this is unfair there's no way to get this game but then have eventually [TS]

01:28:26 ◼   ► gotten through oh yeah definitely like that and that's usually the outcome I [TS]

01:28:30 ◼   ► don't usually give up on the game completely but they're just like certain [TS]

01:28:33 ◼   ► things just like anything that especially that that just wastes tons [TS]

01:28:37 ◼   ► and tons of time doing the same thing over and over and over again in order to [TS]

01:28:41 ◼   ► get to the point that I keep failing that that's that's part of the [TS]

01:28:46 ◼   ► experience of course they do that of course I guess that most extreme cases [TS]

01:28:50 ◼   ► the ones where there was no saving right like the whole thing would be like that [TS]

01:28:53 ◼   ► you'd spend five hours a week and getting to the place where you dial dial [TS]

01:28:57 ◼   ► dial the time so I like your your you know your code compile debug cycle is [TS]

01:29:02 ◼   ► like four hours long [TS]

01:29:04 ◼   ► like you do the math your head like how many tries it gonna take me and it each [TS]

01:29:08 ◼   ► time I do the try and then eventually can you get up to that level anymore [TS]

01:29:12 ◼   ► downward spiral where you're not even getting halfway through the place where [TS]

01:29:15 ◼   ► you gonna die anymore you have to take a break from like that's the whole like [TS]

01:29:18 ◼   ► that's what I'm talking about the whole experience and that's just how it works [TS]

01:29:22 ◼   ► and that that's what games are generally where you get something to savor some [TS]

01:29:25 ◼   ► other way to do it but yeah back in the day to play those NES game [TS]

01:29:29 ◼   ► was like I was a bionic man alone we had to shoot a missile hitler in a [TS]

01:29:33 ◼   ► helicopter as you flew by I'm on the screen like you know thirty frames a [TS]

01:29:37 ◼   ► second and you guys think one shot in the first time it happened you had no [TS]

01:29:40 ◼   ► idea was coming and I we get closer to home game again to get up that one [TS]

01:29:44 ◼   ► senior manager I was there was a different age CIA had a terrible horror [TS]

01:29:49 ◼   ► story with the NES as I had on Wednesday Dragon Warrior that was like original [TS]

01:29:54 ◼   ► not the result of PC but was one of the first RPGs and he asked and Casey please [TS]

01:29:59 ◼   ► email him now don't really but anyways I got I wanted to say please don't email [TS]

01:30:04 ◼   ► me that the highest level you can get you in like 25 and i got up to level 21 [TS]

01:30:09 ◼   ► or something like that and then my little brother and to this day I'm not [TS]

01:30:12 ◼   ► sure if he was being an ass she was did it accidentally but he erased my save my [TS]

01:30:18 ◼   ► save game or whatever and I never looked at that game again took me hours and [TS]

01:30:24 ◼   ► friendship is still his brother tried to the elements could turn your office like [TS]

01:30:37 ◼   ► if you feel like something unfair it happened like it's not the game it's not [TS]

01:30:40 ◼   ► you write brother and like that's not very likely wouldn't accept all the crap [TS]

01:30:44 ◼   ► this game get there on the internet but now has deleted my save game it's like [TS]

01:30:47 ◼   ► all right that one that one out of bounds [TS]

01:30:52 ◼   ► the reason why I never beat by city is that I was playing it during college and [TS]

01:30:56 ◼   ► my roommates Xbox and when he went home for the summer and like all that they're [TS]

01:31:00 ◼   ► good they're goes that's it [TS]

01:31:02 ◼   ► yeah like if I replace we got we're playing for like months and we we got to [TS]

01:31:09 ◼   ► the Wattpad to be like almost the end of the missions and yeah but like once the [TS]

01:31:14 ◼   ► Xbox eventually becomes like I'm not gonna start over and there was no good [TS]

01:31:19 ◼   ► way for me to get the save game from him and put it on mine like you know that [TS]

01:31:22 ◼   ► that was going to happen I just two games good enough you'd wanna start oh [TS]

01:31:26 ◼   ► if I wouldn't I wouldn't get any pleasure out of like replaying the GTA [TS]

01:31:32 ◼   ► emissions caused solely by like them at the time the first time playing [TS]

01:31:35 ◼   ► throughout like you know getting you know accomplishing those things and [TS]

01:31:38 ◼   ► getting it done but I never want to go back and do this is over [TS]

01:31:41 ◼   ► just so time-consuming and so many of them so tedious [TS]

01:31:45 ◼   ► my favorite movies you know most people like to see their favorite movies more [TS]

01:31:49 ◼   ► than once in their entire life like the top makes their favorite movies to watch [TS]

01:31:53 ◼   ► every month or even every year but your favorite movies like matching I wanna [TS]

01:31:56 ◼   ► ride it like you watching you watch it on TV or you know whatever that is what [TS]

01:32:01 ◼   ► it's like a favorite games games like now here in a play it every month or [TS]

01:32:05 ◼   ► every year whatever but like every five years or so you feel like i play my hair [TS]

01:32:09 ◼   ► again we can cause it's been too long [TS]

01:32:11 ◼   ► yeah so deeply journey through so many damn times and i'm taking a break from [TS]

01:32:17 ◼   ► now this point I do it pretty much on the year anniversary of journey of a [TS]

01:32:20 ◼   ► little bit like my new thing is getting people to play journey I'm spreading [TS]

01:32:23 ◼   ► spreading the love to others it's just two hours so I can get you want to have [TS]

01:32:29 ◼   ► the ps3 already have the game [TS]

01:32:31 ◼   ► yep you were just trolling the nine himself a good experience our journey [TS]

01:32:39 ◼   ► really is a gamer's game though so it could be that it's it's it's like it's [TS]

01:32:43 ◼   ► like a movie fans movie like you know some of the real real big cinephile [TS]

01:32:47 ◼   ► that's the word like movies that they love the jon boat by not love but I [TS]

01:32:51 ◼   ► think Marco I think maybe maybe a crossover hit your journey excuse I [TS]

01:32:59 ◼   ► don't have a ps3 alright well when Marcos done with this is not using [TS]

01:33:05 ◼   ► everything else apparently a very very quick final note I tweeted like you two [TS]

01:33:09 ◼   ► minutes before the show I just filled my car my tank miles per gallon thrift ice [TS]

01:33:13 ◼   ► yeah I saw that I was thinking I would love to get that I was thinking I guess [TS]

01:33:19 ◼   ► I double that by every measure my mouth this right here [TS]

01:33:25 ◼   ► perfectly encapsulates the three of us definitely hurtling cap sleeves are cars [TS]

01:33:30 ◼   ► and there are apparently there is a game called candy crisis for putting this is [TS]

01:33:35 ◼   ► the format is very well known open-source yeah it might have been I [TS]

01:33:42 ◼   ► just been recognized the screenshots look familiar to me [TS]

01:33:46 ◼   ► yeah I mean that I'm there could be more than one of these I don't doubt that [TS]

01:33:51 ◼   ► this [TS]

01:33:51 ◼   ► than 1 I'm totally getting this I'm so good at this game no one and no I'm [TS]

01:33:56 ◼   ► movies I was i feel like im always good at the game that nobody else plays which [TS]

01:33:59 ◼   ► of course that probably is your last call them casual gamers was ok but this [TS]

01:34:04 ◼   ► like like only john is judging you I'm really good mood base commander to a [TS]

01:34:09 ◼   ► movie nobody place right time soon Rubik's Cube that's like one of one of [TS]

01:34:15 ◼   ► my life I'll never get to it ideas is I would love to make moon base commander [TS]

01:34:20 ◼   ► for iPad but it just never gonna happen the first of all even though it was a $5 [TS]

01:34:26 ◼   ► game in like 2001 it's still probably beyond my ability to make as I don't I'm [TS]

01:34:33 ◼   ► not really a game programmer and it would it would be like I'm sure maybe I [TS]

01:34:38 ◼   ► could do it if I don't think else to do for like five years but you know I [TS]

01:34:41 ◼   ► wouldn't it would be a tremendous waste of time for me to try to make it so far [TS]

01:34:45 ◼   ► outside of my forties great kid maybe but games record we write themselves [TS]

01:34:51 ◼   ► images into asset files [TS]

01:34:59 ◼   ► seminars like seeing it [TS]

01:35:04 ◼   ► you cannot make a 3d game with because it's like this writing 3d routes like to [TS]

01:35:07 ◼   ► get you could make it is it isn't it basically is like apples ripoff of [TS]

01:35:13 ◼   ► cookies two years is there more to it I mean basal you've got a car animation [TS]

01:35:18 ◼   ► right so you've got all the makings of a break it but anyone who actually wants [TS]

01:35:21 ◼   ► to make a game out of that is not to be using animation layers this things that [TS]

01:35:24 ◼   ► spread you know collision detection and flowers and plants are never and this [TS]

01:35:30 ◼   ► does that for you like this is just makes it so that you may bring people [TS]

01:35:34 ◼   ► who are thinking of making a game but had no idea how to do it spread can now [TS]

01:35:38 ◼   ► something brings puts their game to the round possibility because it's not like [TS]

01:35:41 ◼   ► you're not gonna make an awesome game that groundbreaking but you're gonna [TS]

01:35:45 ◼   ► make company game variety of work or whatever so it does things that [TS]

01:35:49 ◼   ► frameworks positive words like people who could not make this program before [TS]

01:35:52 ◼   ► now can because smarter people have come in giving them or lower layers on its [TS]

01:35:58 ◼   ► impressive because you actually can make a game out of it like he did in the demo [TS]

01:36:01 ◼   ► they had an actual game not amount of good games [TS]

01:36:03 ◼   ► an amazing game but you look and you know you know what that's fine you know [TS]

01:36:07 ◼   ► someone who who has like the skills to make a game in terms of level designing [TS]

01:36:12 ◼   ► characters I'm but not the skills to make a spring tension now of course the [TS]

01:36:18 ◼   ► best thing about it is it's I was only for those people who do it don't have [TS]

01:36:22 ◼   ► the skills to put the game in the platform platform locked in who you [TS]

01:36:28 ◼   ► should check just washed up some different types of games and I wish I [TS]

01:36:33 ◼   ► could but I can't I don't know it although the foresight to download them [TS]

01:36:39 ◼   ► all today they came out Sunday now have all the space and I finally I finally [TS]

01:36:47 ◼   ► have a large storage and backup things setup of God I have UPS's agree not to [TS]

01:36:52 ◼   ► have any ups and so i i upgraded my main ups for a Mac Pro moved the old one [TS]

01:37:03 ◼   ► into the closet for that and the router and stuff SMT 5800 have fam oh my god [TS]

01:37:08 ◼   ► you and your fans it does have a fan but I think it only uses it when it's [TS]

01:37:13 ◼   ► running on Dec power I like it normally I mean I have to try to pay attention to [TS]

01:37:19 ◼   ► put a lid on the Mac Pros off so I could tell more directly but as far as I can [TS]

01:37:24 ◼   ► tell the fam is not running normally I certainly can notice it next to a Mac [TS]

01:37:28 ◼   ► Pro with no hard drives in it which should tell you something tells me [TS]

01:37:34 ◼   ► nothing I'm hanging up on youtube I gotta pack alright enjoy our beach to be [TS]

01:37:41 ◼   ► honest I'm sorry I have not been in a position to the beach at a time when I [TS]

01:37:45 ◼   ► enjoy drinking alcohol in which I really enjoy every five years I haven't been to [TS]

01:37:51 ◼   ► the beach for more than the beach its hot I hate the feeling the smell and I [TS]

01:38:03 ◼   ► hate I will do anything to avoid using sunblock amen [TS]

01:38:08 ◼   ► block smells like no matter what it gets in my eyes like i matter where I put the [TS]

01:38:15 ◼   ► matter [TS]

01:38:16 ◼   ► how careful I am commercials to cook eggs so hard to make the shells are in [TS]

01:38:24 ◼   ► their eyes poked some blogs get them you know it doesn't if you have the [TS]

01:38:29 ◼   ► competence you cannot get big shells in your eyes your eyes it still smells [TS]

01:38:40 ◼   ► cramping me for all day and then what do you do when you start to sizzle you know [TS]

01:38:46 ◼   ► you have to flip over its like your walk that melting the bottom of your feet of [TS]

01:38:56 ◼   ► water which is now facing what are you going to kill devil hills which is a [TS]

01:39:02 ◼   ► great name for fourteen beach in the Outer Banks nods each hit the water you [TS]

01:39:10 ◼   ► open your you stop clenching your lips shut as hard as possible and suddenly [TS]

01:39:15 ◼   ► all the salt that is higher world is in your mouth and you can't even drink the [TS]

01:39:20 ◼   ► water because all these experiences here describing her the same experiences that [TS]

01:39:25 ◼   ► people who like the beach enjoy but you're giving them a negative spin the [TS]

01:39:30 ◼   ► smell of the salt there the feel of the sand under your feet [TS]

01:39:33 ◼   ► the smell the smell of sunblock even suntan oil cocoa butters [TS]

01:39:39 ◼   ► you you guys where deprived of pardon experiences in your formative years and [TS]

01:39:45 ◼   ► now are in an hour broken adults and the funny part of this entire discussion is [TS]

01:39:50 ◼   ► we met twenty yards from the beach although the difference being that was a [TS]

01:39:54 ◼   ► lake beach I enjoy our gross disgusting smiling water and mud and also we were [TS]

01:40:02 ◼   ► not wearing sunblock we were inside there was no salt there was no sand [TS]

01:40:07 ◼   ► there is no Sun [TS]

01:40:08 ◼   ► programmers and that's what I [TS]