00:00:00 ◼ ► Uh, June is pride month, at least here in the States. And, uh, we wanted to take a moment to just quickly recognize that pride month is important that the three of us stand with all of the LG LGBTQIA plus community. I did that off the top of my head. Hope I got it right. Um, you matter, you are important. We love you and care for you. We try to be here for you in any way we can, when we can. Um, if you think that any of those folks are beneath you, then you are a turd and you can just tune out right now.
00:00:30 ◼ ► Uh, there's, there's nothing wrong with loving who you want to love with being who you want to be and to stand in the way of somebody realizing the best version of themselves in a way that doesn't affect anyone else. Really? We, I think we support that. You know, we, we, you should let the people love who they want to love and be who they want to be. And, you know, I have some friends that, um, are going through some transitions now, and I can tell you that at least as far as I can tell, they are happier than they've ever been in the many years that I've known them.
00:00:58 ◼ ► And so, uh, gentlemen, if you have something to add, I am all, all ears and all for it. But in summary, ATP stands with you and happy pride.
00:01:07 ◼ ► Yeah. I think to, to as much as, as, you know, three cizhet white guys can, can try to understand any, any part of this, uh, you know, we try to be the best allies that we can and the best supporters that we can.
00:01:19 ◼ ► It shouldn't be as controversial as it is that people should be who they are and love who they love.
00:01:28 ◼ ► That is such a beautiful concept. And it's really sad that the world has, has made that so difficult for so many people for so long and in different versions and different forms.
00:01:39 ◼ ► If you really think about what, what that really means, like be who you are and love who you love, who could possibly be against that?
00:01:48 ◼ ► But, but yet, yet there are people who are and who, who make the lives of queer people difficult. Um, and we, we all know queer people, we know gender fluid people, we know trans people, a lot of people whose lives have been made more difficult by, by forces against being who you are and loving who you love.
00:02:10 ◼ ► And we just want to, as Casey said, just reiterate how much we vehemently support all rights for all people to be who they are and love who they love.
00:02:21 ◼ ► Anything that we can do to help, we, we are happy to help. And until this fight is totally won and everyone is equal, which as we know is probably never see also racism.
00:02:33 ◼ ► Like, you know, we, we never really solved that. It's a constant battle. Um, anything about gender identity and sexuality, like that's going to be a constant battle for the rest of our lives too.
00:02:42 ◼ ► And we want to make sure that we are constantly on the good side of that, helping to fight it. And so we strongly encourage the rest of you, please help defend people's rights and help encourage people to live the lives that they want to live.
00:02:56 ◼ ► Yeah. And in the U S we've recently made some terrible backsliding in this area. So we all just have to fight even harder to not only continue to make forward progress, but to make up the ground that we've lost.
00:03:05 ◼ ► Uh, we have to kind of really dig in here and, uh, just try to get back to where we were a couple of years ago. So it's rough for us, but you know, you can't give up.
00:03:19 ◼ ► Yeah. Um, dynamic DNS, uh, this was definitely a big thing. I don't know. I feel like maybe, uh,
00:03:26 ◼ ► a little while ago where you'd get like, Oh, I got my first cable modem. Oh, but I don't have a static IP,
00:03:34 ◼ ► So you'd get a host name and you'd be like, well, can I get like a host name that like anytime anyone looks up the host name,
00:03:40 ◼ ► it resolves to whatever the IP address that my cable modem gave me recently. That's dynamic DNS.
00:03:46 ◼ ► The dynamic part is I look up the IP address for this host name and I get a different answer depending on, you know,
00:03:52 ◼ ► whatever, whatever IP address was assigned to, uh, you know, my cable modem or whatever.
00:04:02 ◼ ► Well, because in the past I signed up for a dynamic DNS thing for, so I could do exactly that.
00:04:31 ◼ ► but I was even more of a cheapskate when I had a lot less money. Um, and it was a free one.
00:04:48 ◼ ► these services. Like I'm sure they had paid tiers, but like of all the different times I've seen a
00:04:53 ◼ ► dying DNS or a no IP, like everything everywhere. I've never heard of anyone paying for them.
00:04:59 ◼ ► Yeah. So the no IP thing with the, with the free plan, it's great. Except that once a month,
00:05:05 ◼ ► you get an email that says the host name you registered at no IP.com is set to expire the
00:05:09 ◼ ► next 14 days due to inactivity. Unused hosts are removed from our system. If no updates are made
00:05:13 ◼ ► within 90 days, this policy helps to ensure we have no stale DNS records. If you were still actively
00:05:17 ◼ ► using this host name and do not wish to have your house removed from our DNS service and database,
00:05:26 ◼ ► So me being a programmer back in the day, I just programmed the thing to watch for those emails
00:05:30 ◼ ► and then like make a request for the URL done and done. Right. Cause then they, you know,
00:05:36 ◼ ► time passes on and then they got wise to that and they're like, well, we can't do that. We're going
00:05:39 ◼ ► to make you go to a page and like do a capture type thing. I'm like, uh, well, I suppose I could
00:05:43 ◼ ► try to defeat the capture. But again, this was many, many years ago. I'm like, um, I'll just go,
00:05:46 ◼ ► I'll just, when they send the email once a month, I'll click on the link, I'll do the capture.
00:05:50 ◼ ► Eventually the capture thing will learn my IP address is legitimate and not even prompt me.
00:05:54 ◼ ► You just hit the little checkbox or whatever. So yeah. Um, and I had a note in my calendar to say,
00:05:59 ◼ ► you should probably get rid of that dynamic DNS thing cause you don't really use it anymore.
00:06:03 ◼ ► And there are so many better solutions. Uh, maybe it's time to ditch it. Uh, but I put the note
00:06:08 ◼ ► on a specific date and that was, I guess maybe a last week or so. And that's because, um, I first
00:06:16 ◼ ► signed up for this, um, no IP, uh, address 20 years ago. Oh, wow. This is the anniversary corner.
00:06:25 ◼ ► I've never been happier in my whole life. This is the nerdiest anniversary I've ever heard.
00:06:29 ◼ ► For, for 20 years, once a month, I've been clicking on a link or going to a capture and filling it out.
00:06:34 ◼ ► And I feel like this is an amazing embodiment of exactly how cheap I am and how far I will go not
00:06:40 ◼ ► to have to pay any money because every single month they're like, the come ons are like, you know,
00:06:44 ◼ ► the, the button that's highlighted is the one that says sign up for our paid plan. And like,
00:06:47 ◼ ► it tries to funnel you so hard to design it for our pay plan. I'm like, Nope, I will. I will outlast
00:06:52 ◼ ► you. No IP. I will do this for free forever. I just kept waiting for the day to wake up and they'd
00:06:56 ◼ ► say no more free plan. Uh, you have to pay, but they never did. I was like, if you're never going
00:07:01 ◼ ► to make me pay, I'm never going to pay because I don't need any of the paid services. All I need is
00:07:05 ◼ ► exactly what you're giving me. And once a month I will do this. So for 20 years, I've been clicking on
00:07:11 ◼ ► links from the IP.com. And I just wanted to celebrate that probably right before I get rid of that IP
00:07:16 ◼ ► address and replace it with something more sane. So happy 20th anniversary. My host dynamic host
00:07:23 ◼ ► name that I signed up for in 2006. That's amazing. I mean, first of all, like if you wanted to stop
00:07:29 ◼ ► doing this, how much money would that cost? Like, well, I'm sure there's some kind of pay plan where
00:07:32 ◼ ► you don't have to verify every month, right? I don't know. I mean, I, there's so many other
00:07:37 ◼ ► solutions and I'd also have to think about like, why am I doing this? Because these days I have all my
00:07:41 ◼ ► stuff on servers. Like, uh, you know, I have my servers that I host on cloud flare and stuff.
00:07:45 ◼ ► So like part of the reason it says there's no activity. Well, two reasons. One files really
00:07:49 ◼ ► doesn't change my IP address. So like the dynamic DNS thing, like I don't even run it half the time.
00:07:53 ◼ ► And two, like, when do I ever need to connect to my home network in this way? I really don't. So
00:07:58 ◼ ► I'm probably just going to get rid of it and not replace it. I can't remember the last time I used
00:08:01 ◼ ► it, but I was so close to 20 years. Last time I considered this, I'm like, I'll put a thing in the
00:08:05 ◼ ► calendar and 20 year anniversary. We'll figure it out. But anyway, yeah, I will click on a link once a
00:08:10 ◼ ► month for 20 years to save money. By the way, just, I did, I looked it up. It's three bucks a
00:08:13 ◼ ► month to get rid of that requirement. Um, I will never pay that. Right. If it's worth it for you
00:08:18 ◼ ► to save three bucks to click a link once a month. Great. Yeah. No, no, it's not. Cause that's the,
00:08:22 ◼ ► that's the thing. Like if I wanted the services I would have paid for it long ago, I have no problem
00:08:25 ◼ ► paying for services that I need, but I don't need anything beyond what I have. And the only quote,
00:08:29 ◼ ► unquote cost to me is clicking on that link. And it's like 20 years, man, I'll, I'll click it for 20
00:08:33 ◼ ► years. If you give me a free way to do it, I'll take it. Um, if it, if it was more onerous or if I
00:08:37 ◼ ► needed some extended services, I would have done it. But yeah, obviously I really want to go that
00:08:41 ◼ ► route as, as Casey will tell you that, uh, tail scale, former sponsor is the way to do that because
00:08:46 ◼ ► they may, they have, it's so much more powerful than dynamic DNS address. Yes. They are former and
00:08:52 ◼ ► future sponsor for the record, but genuinely I am pretty obsessed with tail scale. It really does
00:08:57 ◼ ► just work in almost every way. And, you know, one of the things that's great, you know, not to turn this
00:09:02 ◼ ► into a tail scale ad, but there's a couple of features that makes this really great. First of all,
00:09:06 ◼ ► you know, all of your devices have a stay, a stable host name. That's only visible to things
00:09:12 ◼ ► within your own tail net. So basically within your little like mesh network, if you will,
00:09:17 ◼ ► but they also have a feature called tail scale funnel, which is the sort of thing that I think
00:09:21 ◼ ► would solve a lot of these problems that we used to solve with dynamic DNS. And what tail scale funnel
00:09:26 ◼ ► does is it says, all right, I want to vend this port on this device to the public internet. So say
00:09:33 ◼ ► you're working on a webpage in like a Docker container or something like that, and you want
00:09:37 ◼ ► to have a coworker look at it. Well, a coworker, maybe not for like a friend or something like that.
00:09:42 ◼ ► So someone not on the same tail net, you can actually enable tail scale funnel, which will
00:09:46 ◼ ► let the, which will let the internet tunnel into your device via tail scale servers, but it's all
00:09:52 ◼ ► encrypted. So they can't, you know, sniff it out or anything like that. Um, and it's actually very
00:09:56 ◼ ► powerful and very cool. I wouldn't be like running a jellyfin server through this or something like
00:10:01 ◼ ► that. But for, you know, the sorts of things where you just want somebody to look at something on your,
00:10:10 ◼ ► Yes, exactly. I mean, I don't know who would ever do that, but that is something you could do
00:10:14 ◼ ► hypothetically. All right. Uh, let's start with some follow-up. We have a big show today,
00:10:18 ◼ ► so we're going to try to power through this famous last words. Uh, let's talk about the Ferrari
00:10:22 ◼ ► Luce. Uh, RG extracted a video clip that John, you were talking about that shows, I don't know,
00:10:27 ◼ ► how would you describe what you were after with this video clip? I understand it and I've watched it,
00:10:32 ◼ ► Yeah. Maybe I just could have given a timestamp link to the YouTube video, but RG did extract it
00:10:36 ◼ ► into a quick little animated GIF, which is not a GIF. It's an MP4, but whatever. Um, it's the two
00:10:41 ◼ ► parts of the design of the car. This is from Ferrari's own presentation. They said, basically,
00:10:45 ◼ ► think of it this way. There's like a inner black inner part that slopes way down in the front and
00:10:51 ◼ ► the back. And then there's this red or body colored outer shell that goes on top of it. And they have an
00:10:56 ◼ ► animation showing just that. So that's what I was referring to in the last show. And I had trouble
00:11:02 ◼ ► Check it out. Additionally, I don't remember if I said this privately or publicly, but I'd said to
00:11:07 ◼ ► you one way or another that you should make a blog post about your EV stupidity checklist. And
00:11:15 ◼ ► Yeah. I mean, time-wise, depending on when you saw what you might've think the blog place came
00:11:22 ◼ ► you should make a blog post about that. So I did. Uh, we'll link it in the show notes. It is
00:11:26 ◼ ► a more formalized version of what I talked about, uh, on the episode about, uh, when car makers make
00:11:33 ◼ ► an EV and forget how to do basic things in car design. Uh, and it's not just for EVs because
00:11:37 ◼ ► they do this across all cars, but anyway, I covered, try to cover a bunch of bases. Uh,
00:11:50 ◼ ► occur to me until several days later. Do you want to try to guess what, what it is you forgot?
00:11:53 ◼ ► I mean, whenever you make a list like this, everyone's going to write in to tell you what
00:11:56 ◼ ► you quote unquote forgot. Uh, there, obviously I could have gone for on forever with, uh,
00:12:03 ◼ ► Well, you, I will give you three guesses. What is my bug bear? What am I always banging the
00:12:12 ◼ ► Yes. I mean, it's, it's not common across every single EV, but a lot of EVs, particularly
00:12:16 ◼ ► the popular ones. I should have, I should have written down the suggestions everyone else had.
00:12:20 ◼ ► I didn't see any suggestions that I hadn't thought of, but just ones that didn't make the cut,
00:12:22 ◼ ► but I'm not, other than like a windshield that withstands iPads, I'm not thinking of any.
00:12:26 ◼ ► You jerk. Well played. Uh, no CarPlay. It's CarPlay. It's obviously CarPlay. You need to support
00:12:32 ◼ ► CarPlay. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. Some, a lot of people wrote in with that because they were saying,
00:12:40 ◼ ► cause I use that as an example when I tooted about this, not only is the Chevy Equinox EV
00:12:43 ◼ ► stupid in these ways, also they remove CarPlay from it. I'm like, I have bad news about GM and
00:12:48 ◼ ► CarPlay. It's not, I mean, I'm, I know they're doing it mostly on EVs now, but I think it's
00:12:52 ◼ ► basically a company-wide thing. So as each, as each car model gets redesigned, I think their plan is
00:12:57 ◼ ► for the new design, not to have CarPlay. So that's not an EV thing, but yeah, that's really dumb.
00:13:02 ◼ ► And also like every few months, somebody from Rivian goes on a Nilay Patel podcast and gives
00:13:07 ◼ ► an interview and that just happened again. Um, basically saying like, we are never going to
00:13:11 ◼ ► do CarPlay. Why would we do CarPlay? All we need to do is add a few integrations for things like
00:13:15 ◼ ► Spotify maybe, or Apple music, and then it'll be fine. And clearly nobody would ever want to run
00:13:24 ◼ ► Well, it's just, it's just like this back and forth cadence of, of the same story, which is
00:13:27 ◼ ► executive says we don't need CarPlay. And then whatever the most recent survey is, 80% of customers
00:13:32 ◼ ► said they won't buy a car without CarPlay and just goes back and forth and back and forth. And it's like,
00:13:36 ◼ ► all right, well, I guess you're just going to wait it out and see if that number goes down.
00:13:39 ◼ ► Yeah. And Rivian's position has always been like, we don't need, we don't want somebody taking
00:13:44 ◼ ► over the whole experience. It's like, well, that's not really like almost no car lets CarPlay
00:13:49 ◼ ► take over the whole experience. Um, and there's like my car that has like, you know, in the most
00:13:54 ◼ ► recent interview, whoever from, from Rivian was being interviewed by Neelai and I think it was
00:13:58 ◼ ► decoder, um, said like that CarPlay requires every pixel of the screen. No, it doesn't. Most cars don't
00:14:04 ◼ ► use that. It does not. I got so mad about this. I got so unnecessarily mad about this. Maybe they
00:14:09 ◼ ► were talking about CarPlay Ultra, which by the way, the Luce doesn't have that either, which is
00:14:13 ◼ ► interesting. Yeah. But even, but like, you know, look at whatever, what CarPlay means to everyone
00:14:22 ◼ ► be like my car. It takes up most of the main screen, but it doesn't take up any of the gauge
00:14:28 ◼ ► cluster. And, and along the bottom of the main screen is my car's controls for things like
00:14:32 ◼ ► climate and that's fine. It works fine. And then they were like, well, our customers don't
00:14:37 ◼ ► even want anymore. Yeah. Because anybody who wants it isn't your customer. Right. Yeah.
00:14:41 ◼ ► Self-selecting. It's the Mac Pro. Yeah. Yeah. So we removed it from our cars and then three
00:14:46 ◼ ► years later, nobody who buys our cars wants CarPlay. Yeah. Who, who, who could imagine that?
00:14:50 ◼ ► So yeah, good luck. I I've used your software. I've owned, I've owned your vehicle. I've used
00:14:55 ◼ ► your software without CarPlay. And guess what I did? I put my phone in a bracket next to the air
00:15:00 ◼ ► vent because that's what I had to do because that's what I actually need is my phone in the car.
00:15:05 ◼ ► And your software is not good. Like the Rivian map software was horrendous. The routing was bad.
00:15:12 ◼ ► The traffic was bad. The directions were bad. The map data itself was bad. The street names were bad.
00:15:19 ◼ ► The exit names were bad. Everything about it was bad. So I never use it. I just used Waze. That's why
00:15:26 ◼ ► because theirs was worse. Guess what? Their Bluetooth implementation for audio, bad, limited. Their version,
00:15:32 ◼ ► their client apps for things like Apple music bad. That's why I didn't use them for very long.
00:15:39 ◼ ► And whenever they would announce some new update or some new service, I'd go try it again. And I would
00:15:45 ◼ ► bail out after less than a day because it was so bad. Or I would try their routing because they said
00:15:50 ◼ ► the routing's better. I would try it on one trip and it would be so bad. Sorry, Rivian. I want Rivian
00:15:57 ◼ ► to succeed. I really do because their vehicles, I think have a lot of great aspects, a lot of promise.
00:16:03 ◼ ► I like a lot about their company ethos. I like a lot about their style, their capabilities and things
00:16:09 ◼ ► like off-road situations are amazing. Like there's so much and I'm so optimistic about their future
00:16:15 ◼ ► lineup. Like I think the R2 is going to bring them a whole bunch of success. I really love how the R3 might
00:16:22 ◼ ► be looking. The R3 X would be a serious contender for my next car if it, if it actually comes out
00:16:27 ◼ ► like in the right time span. But CarPlay, man, that would solve so many problems. And Rivian still
00:16:34 ◼ ► continues to assert that we don't need CarPlay because we can just build in like, you know,
00:16:41 ◼ ► people like podcasts, right? Oh, we'll just build an Apple podcast. Done. Look at Spotify. That's
00:16:50 ◼ ► right? Nope. It sure isn't. Nope. It makes me so mad. And the thing of it is, is that you can offer
00:16:56 ◼ ► CarPlay and continue to do the shit you're already doing. It's not mutually exclusive. I don't
00:17:03 ◼ ► understand. That's the, that's, and the worst part is like, they keep saying like, we, we have to do
00:17:07 ◼ ► this ourselves so that we can get, you know, give people a good experience. They're not giving people a
00:17:12 ◼ ► good experience. The good experience is I got to put my phone in a bracket because that's what I
00:17:16 ◼ ► actually need. And I don't have to do that with my other car because my other car has CarPlay.
00:17:21 ◼ ► And so I don't need to put my, so I don't put my phone in a bracket and use it while I'm driving.
00:17:25 ◼ ► Yep. No, it's, it's preposterous to me. It's, it's complete hubris. I am my personal opinion. I think
00:17:31 ◼ ► I've probably said this before, and I don't think it's an original thought, but I think eventually
00:17:34 ◼ ► when Tesla sales continue to go through the crapper, I think eventually they will enable,
00:17:42 ◼ ► They will eventually enable CarPlay. And then spontaneously the clouds will disappear at
00:17:48 ◼ ► Rivian HQ and suddenly CarPlay will work on a Rivian because it works on Tesla. So I guess
00:17:55 ◼ ► I mean, we might literally hear about CarPlay being added to Tesla's next week. Like that,
00:18:00 ◼ ► they could do something with Apple or Apple announces, you know, on some slide, WDC, like that could
00:18:06 ◼ ► actually be part of what we hear very soon. Like I can totally see that being a thing that they
00:18:13 ◼ ► There was something in the show notes about CarPlay on Tesla, but it just got pushed down and down and
00:18:17 ◼ ► didn't even make it into overtime. There's a, there's a long queue. So thank you for bringing
00:18:20 ◼ ► You are welcome. All right. I told you we had to make this quick. And then I went on a tear with,
00:18:24 ◼ ► well, Marco and I both and, uh, air high five to you, Marco, cause I'm right there with you.
00:18:28 ◼ ► All right. Let's talk about another thing that makes us so, so happy. Bamboo, uh, with regard to last
00:18:33 ◼ ► week's overtime and, uh, bamboo, the 3d printer manufacturer and their fights with users or with
00:18:38 ◼ ► its, with their own users. Uh, Steve Riggins writes bamboo was not liked by the open source community.
00:18:42 ◼ ► Well, before this latest issue, they've repeatedly broken the spirit of open source software. And this
00:18:47 ◼ ► was, I believe the final straw for many. I own a Prusa PR USA, partially because of this older beef
00:18:53 ◼ ► that I heard about via my friends. And I did not want to encourage bamboo to continue to act in this
00:18:57 ◼ ► manner, which they clearly have that was posted on Mastodon. Jose, uh, replied to that post saying
00:19:05 ◼ ► facts. I stopped firmware updates right when they announced plans to lock down the comms on my X one
00:19:10 ◼ ► C I'll never buy another bamboo. I understand why people have a beef with bamboo and it, it had it
00:19:19 ◼ ► being a, an increasingly proprietary system. I, I get that people have pointed out legitimate issues
00:19:25 ◼ ► like bamboo is a Chinese company and sending your models through their servers can possibly create
00:19:32 ◼ ► some unusual or undesirable outcomes. I totally get that. I just don't care about those things from my
00:19:40 ◼ ► point of view as a casual 3d printing hobbyist. I love how easy and good bamboo stuff is. If I wanted
00:19:50 ◼ ► to go kind of the more like open source route, the Prusa stuff looks really good. I, I totally get why
00:19:57 ◼ ► people would do that. And maybe in the future I will go that route, but right now I'm perfectly happy to
00:20:04 ◼ ► stay in this walled garden. Walled gardens can work really well as long as they're not the only gardens
00:20:10 ◼ ► like that, like, and that's the good thing is I'm, I'm glad the world of open, free, non-lockdown 3d
00:20:19 ◼ ► printing exists. And I think there will always be a market for that. If I was running like a big,
00:20:23 ◼ ► you know, fleet of printers for like a product company where I was actually printing stuff in mass
00:20:28 ◼ ► and shipping it to customers, like I would probably want more control over my hardware. And so I would
00:20:32 ◼ ► probably do something like a bunch of Prusa or something. But as a hobbyist, I love not having to
00:20:39 ◼ ► deal with the increased complexities of the open source world. I love just having it be integrated
00:20:47 ◼ ► because when it was harder before I had the integrated bamboo system, I never did anything
00:20:52 ◼ ► with it. I never 3d printed anything because it was too hard. Now it's made it easy. So what I said in
00:20:58 ◼ ► the, in the overtime for non-members about this, the basic gist of it is please let me not care about
00:21:05 ◼ ► the dispute here between bamboo and the open source people. Please let me continue to enjoy
00:21:09 ◼ ► this hobby and not be an activist this one time for this one issue. Um, because that's, that's
00:21:15 ◼ ► currently a big source of joy for me and I want it to stay that way. Yeah. And your request was denied
00:21:20 ◼ ► by the way. So many people wrote in and basically said to Marco, no, sorry, you can't not care.
00:21:25 ◼ ► So answer, asked and answered. Honestly, I was not persuaded by those arguments. Well, but you asked,
00:21:30 ◼ ► like, you shouldn't have asked permission if you don't want to hear the answer. You don't have
00:21:33 ◼ ► their permission, but you just, you can do what you want because you don't need their permission.
00:21:36 ◼ ► Thanks. We are sponsored by Factor. Now imagine hunger strikes, but you're exhausted. You've had a
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00:23:28 ◼ ► All right. Uh, with regard to alarm reminders and clock alarms for more than 24 hours in advance,
00:23:38 ◼ ► Ben Smith writes, you can set an alarm up to seven days in advance by using the repeat every X day of
00:23:43 ◼ ► the week and selecting which day or days you want the alarm to go off. Given that alarm reminders are now
00:23:49 ◼ ► way better at this. I can't think of a reason why anyone would do this, but it is possible.
00:23:53 ◼ ► That's a clever workaround, but thankfully no longer needed. Yeah. That's a, that's a, that is a clever
00:23:58 ◼ ► workaround. It's a terrible solution. That's you shouldn't need to do that to set an alarm, you
00:24:03 ◼ ► know, more than 24 hours, you know, ahead of time. So I understand why people do this with now the
00:24:09 ◼ ► new alarm reminders. That makes sense. Uh, we talked a lot over the last few weeks about moving files
00:24:14 ◼ ► and how to move files. I think the genesis of this was NASC ATP several weeks back, but it was like,
00:24:18 ◼ ► do you copy and paste files? And we talked about cut, copy and paste and then the move modifiers.
00:24:25 ◼ ► Yeah. Uh, Steven Optubeek writes, uh, up to back, up to be up to something. Uh, Steven,
00:24:31 ◼ ► he's given pronunciation and I also can't remember what it is, but I know we always get it wrong. I'm
00:24:34 ◼ ► sorry, Steven. Steven up to something writes, you can use the move command, the MV command
00:24:39 ◼ ► to move files across volumes. It works just as you would expect. Here's a demo movie. And, uh,
00:24:44 ◼ ► this was on Mastodon and we'll put a link in the show notes. I can't believe I didn't like not
00:24:49 ◼ ► scold you, but correct you about this. I guess you were just on a tear and I didn't want to interrupt,
00:24:52 ◼ ► but I, of course you can use the MV command to move files across volume. I mean, yeah, I didn't say
00:24:57 ◼ ► definitively one or the other, but I just thought about it. I'm like, you know what? I've actually
00:25:00 ◼ ► haven't tried that on, on Mac OS. And because the file moving the, the basic tools on Mac OS,
00:25:09 ◼ ► did they change that? Uh, but anyway, I didn't actually try it. Uh, Steven did. And so there's
00:25:13 ◼ ► a video. Uh, then Steven continues, uh, in a second, uh, movie and a second toot here. I am interrupting
00:25:20 ◼ ► the process by yanking the volume. Don't try this at home kids. The move or MV only copied part of the
00:25:25 ◼ ► file and kept the source intact. So there you go. So, uh, it is the, it bravely tested the worst
00:25:30 ◼ ► case scenario, which is if it dies in the middle, what happens? And the good news is that the source
00:25:36 ◼ ► All right. Uh, and then someone whose identity was omitted or will be omitted here to spare them
00:25:43 ◼ ► the embarrassment wrote in to say that they did not heed your advice, John, about cross volume moves in
00:25:47 ◼ ► the finder and ended up hosing a entire virtual machine that they were trying to move. Whoopsie
00:25:53 ◼ ► Yeah. Yeah. They, they said that they had my voice in their head while they were doing it. And
00:25:56 ◼ ► they said, well, anyway, and then the thing failed and they deleted the destination and realized their
00:26:01 ◼ ► source was host. So remember reminding again, what this is saying is if you're doing an operation in
00:26:07 ◼ ► the finder with drag and drop, that would normally be a copy. In other words, moving across volumes,
00:26:12 ◼ ► but you override the fact that it's a copy by holding down command to make it a move. That's what I'm
00:26:17 ◼ ► saying. Don't do because you know, for the, for the reasons stated here that like, uh, like I think
00:26:23 ◼ ► the problem with the VM is it is actually a folder full of files and you, but it looks like one file.
00:26:27 ◼ ► So like you, you drag it, this is like a, this is actually sort of working as designed, but not as
00:26:31 ◼ ► the user expects, you know, you can, you hold down command, turn it into a move. It starts going,
00:26:35 ◼ ► but it fails for some reason. You're like, ah, well, I'll just do it over. But what you didn't
00:26:39 ◼ ► realize is that in that file that looks like a single file, but it's actually a folder full of files.
00:26:43 ◼ ► Each one of those files was like, copy the destination, delete the source, copy the destination,
00:26:47 ◼ ► delete the source, copy the destination, delete the source. Oh, I got interrupted. So when it gets
00:26:51 ◼ ► interrupted, you're like, oh, the copy failed. Let me just delete the destination. I'll recopy it.
00:26:55 ◼ ► But what you're recopying, it is now a partially populated directory that looks like a file full of
00:27:00 ◼ ► stuff. This is, again, I don't think this is actually a bug. This is like just working as designed,
00:27:05 ◼ ► but again, not as you expect. There are actual bugs where you're working with a single file
00:27:08 ◼ ► and you can still end up in a scenario where the destination didn't get written correctly and the
00:27:13 ◼ ► source is gone. So don't do it. Just let it be a copy and then delete the source when you're sure
00:27:17 ◼ ► the destination has been entirely written. We did a member special on the movie Her and we talked
00:27:24 ◼ ► during the member special about how, or at least I brought up how cool I thought the user interfaces
00:27:28 ◼ ► were on the screens. And Peter Pulio writes, fun little tidbit about the movie Her, the artist,
00:27:33 ◼ ► Jeff McFetridge designed all the computer UI seen in the film. His art is wonderful and worth checking
00:27:39 ◼ ► out, but he's also done a lot of work for Apple, including the artist watch face, WWDC 2017 graphics
00:27:45 ◼ ► and Apple Pay Transit ads. Come to think of it, living so close to New York City, Marco has probably seen
00:27:50 ◼ ► some of his Apple Pay Transit ads in person. I have fond memories of that WWDC 2017. You remember that,
00:27:57 ◼ ► like the top view of all the little people? It was really cool looking. So yeah, I'm like, oh,
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00:30:03 ◼ ► It is the week before WWDC. WWDC is here next week. We will not be going unless there's a surprise
00:30:19 ◼ ► that I was not aware of, but we will be bringing you coverage as always. And the theme for this year is
00:30:27 ◼ ► all systems glow. I feel like they've leaned on this one a few times. I mean, it's obvious that they're
00:30:33 ◼ ► referencing the sort of HDR over bright effects that they use when you activate Siri. And like, didn't they
00:30:41 ◼ ► use, maybe they didn't use the exact phrase, but I feel like the art on at least a couple of recent
00:30:46 ◼ ► WWDC has been like, hey, did you know we use HDR, uh, colors and, uh, images and graphics in iOS? Like,
00:30:58 ◼ ► Hopefully. I mean, we'll see what we actually get here. I mean, I think German's reporting,
00:31:06 ◼ ► which we'll get to in a second has been pretty strong in one direction. And that's, you know,
00:31:10 ◼ ► there's probably a lot of, a lot of truth there, but what I hope to see broadly AI is everywhere in
00:31:18 ◼ ► the industry. A bunch of it is BS and is, is turning out to be underwhelming, but a bunch of
00:31:23 ◼ ► it is turning out to be pretty useful and pretty high value. Apple is so far pretty much nowhere in
00:31:31 ◼ ► this game. They don't make the models. They have tried and they have failed to make the models.
00:31:37 ◼ ► They don't host the infrastructure. And I could, I think more importantly for, for Apple and their
00:31:45 ◼ ► products, they currently don't really use AI well in their products. And me, and these things are
00:31:52 ◼ ► obviously related, you know, to, to a degree, but what I want to see from Apple is if you're not
00:31:59 ◼ ► going to build the models, fine, hire Google to do it. That's fine. Like Google makes good models. So
00:32:04 ◼ ► that seems like a totally fine choice. If you want Google to, to host the infrastructure too,
00:32:10 ◼ ► that's, that's also fine. Like these big companies have lots of infrastructure, lots of capacity.
00:32:14 ◼ ► Apple has, has used things like Azure and AWS for parts of their services before. So that's,
00:32:21 ◼ ► that's perfectly fine. What I want to see from Apple is the ability to integrate AI into making good
00:32:29 ◼ ► products and features. We haven't seen that either. So far, Apple has been utterly paralyzed
00:32:37 ◼ ► and seemingly unable to ship anything good that uses AI. You look at how they have tried so far in
00:32:46 ◼ ► their little baby steps. Siri of course is not the baby. Siri, Siri is like the giant Apple AI like area
00:32:55 ◼ ► that they have so far just completely failed in so many giant ways over time with Siri. And it's,
00:33:04 ◼ ► it's reputation is terrible. Everything bad about Siri's reputation is a hundred percent deserved
00:33:09 ◼ ► because it really has been massively missed opportunities, huge inflated promises that they
00:33:15 ◼ ► cannot then deliver on or that they deliver inconsistently on. And then you look at how else
00:33:21 ◼ ► of the integrated AI into their, into their OSs and products so far badly. We have crap like image
00:33:28 ◼ ► playgrounds, which is horrendous. The writing tools, which are pretty rough and not super useful,
00:33:33 ◼ ► you know, minor things like photo editing that are kind of like half baked, half there, mostly over
00:33:39 ◼ ► promised and under delivered. We have things like the, um, the image, uh, visual intelligence.
00:33:45 ◼ ► Um, that's also pretty half baked and pretty underwhelming compared to like what Android has,
00:33:50 ◼ ► but she's like the same feature, but better and works better. Um, we have not yet seen Apple
00:34:00 ◼ ► Oh yeah, right. They've done multiple versions of Genmoji. Image playgrounds is here, but so is Genmoji.
00:34:05 ◼ ► Right. So like what I want to see is like, okay, if you can't make the models fine, you can't host the
00:34:10 ◼ ► models fine, but use them to build products that don't suck. Use them to build features that are
00:34:18 ◼ ► compelling. Add APIs that developers can use to build features and products that are compelling.
00:34:24 ◼ ► They did that. They did your transcription thing. That's an example of using AI to make a useful
00:34:28 ◼ ► feature. They did. And, and the transcription I think is possibly the only thing they did pretty
00:34:33 ◼ ► well with AI so far at an API level. Like the foundation models are there in the 26 releases. I'm
00:34:39 ◼ ► glad they're there. They're very limited and I'm hoping to see improvements there with 27, but I,
00:34:45 ◼ ► I ultimately, what I want to see from the 27 OS's is for Apple to join the AI revolution to set
00:34:55 ◼ ► expectations accordingly. I don't expect them to have their own models or at least from, from scratch.
00:35:02 ◼ ► I'm sure, you know, whatever they're, whatever their deal is with Google, you know, that's fine.
00:35:05 ◼ ► I don't expect them to become a model company, but Apple in general is a product and platform company.
00:35:13 ◼ ► And so what I want to see is get on board with AI in your products and platforms for things that it can
00:35:20 ◼ ► actually do well for compelling features that are well-implemented, well-designed and well-integrated.
00:35:26 ◼ ► So far they have shown no willingness or ability to use AI in a well-implemented, well-designed and
00:35:34 ◼ ► well-integrated way. We just have crap like image playgrounds. And I would love to see Apple deliver
00:35:44 ◼ ► I'm going to put in a slightly good word for the image cleanup, which I think is kind of like voice
00:35:50 ◼ ► transcription, uh, a, a useful feature that couldn't exist without AI because the previous like repair
00:35:56 ◼ ► thing that they had was really falling behind the state of the art. It's why I always ended up using
00:36:01 ◼ ► a edit and pixel meter pro because they had some machine learning powered, uh, image repair thing
00:36:06 ◼ ► for years. And I was like always using that because it works so much better. And then Apple added
00:36:10 ◼ ► cleanup. It's like, Hey, we'll do that too. Now is cleanup as good as Google's things? No,
00:36:14 ◼ ► it's not. Google has better image cleanup tools, as you noted. Um, but like transcription, it's like,
00:36:20 ◼ ► well, it's better than it not being there. It should be a system level feature. It should be
00:36:24 ◼ ► part of the photos app. It should be, uh, something that they add in the, and they did add it to their
00:36:29 ◼ ► credit, but now I'm going to take it all away because, uh, that feature on my wife's M one max,
00:36:34 ◼ ► max studio in the photos application works about 10% of the time. And you know what happens the other
00:36:40 ◼ ► 90% of the time in the little sidebar and photos, I see a little text message that says,
00:36:48 ◼ ► It's just that across major versions of Mac OS, I believe, uh, just, I, I, it's, it's like, Oh,
00:36:54 ◼ ► it doesn't never work. No, once in a while it works, but not all the time. And I can't figure out why.
00:36:58 ◼ ► So way to screw up that one feature that I actually liked, uh, rumor there are, we're not going to go
00:37:03 ◼ ► over like every rumor for WWDC. We'll link to some roundups where you can see there's lots of stuff
00:37:08 ◼ ► that's rumored, but, um, we're going to hit some highlights, but one of the things that is rumor that
00:37:11 ◼ ► we're not going to cover today is supposedly better machine learning powered AI powered photo
00:37:17 ◼ ► editing features. Hopefully they'll actually work this time, but that is one of the things that I
00:37:21 ◼ ► think is an example of take, uh, AI technology and make a useful product feature out of it.
00:37:33 ◼ ► throats any more than we already are, but we're not going to do any more shoving of AI down your
00:37:37 ◼ ► throats. Look at us. We're, we're with you. We, we agree. I think as much as I'm snarking right now,
00:37:43 ◼ ► I think that's actually a potential like victory to just say, look, we've tried what we've tried.
00:37:48 ◼ ► We've, we're, we're going to make a few things better, but we're not going to just sprinkle AI dust
00:37:52 ◼ ► on every freaking thing. We have, do you think that's what Apple saying? Are you saying you wish
00:37:55 ◼ ► they would say that? I think that they have the opportunity to say that because they've done so
00:37:59 ◼ ► little now and they can just lean right into it, but they will not say that they will not. They
00:38:04 ◼ ► absolutely won't, but it would be neat. Cause I don't know. I just, I feel like Marco, I think opened
00:38:09 ◼ ► this entire segment about AI with saying that, you know, in some ways, in certain contexts, it's very good
00:38:16 ◼ ► and very impressive and very useful. And then there's the 8 trillion other ways where it's being
00:38:21 ◼ ► shoved right down our throats. And I'm not here for any of that. And I wish that somebody would be
00:38:27 ◼ ► the adult in the room and just say, you know what, we're going to, we're going to do what Apple always
00:38:31 ◼ ► used to do, which is we will use this underlying technology to do things that are helpful in the
00:38:36 ◼ ► real world to real people, right? Like, you know, photo editing and stuff like that, rather than just
00:38:41 ◼ ► making something stupid that nobody wants like image playgrounds. So I don't know. I don't know
00:38:48 ◼ ► what they're going to do. I suspect that they're going to try to just, you know, everyone seems to
00:38:52 ◼ ► think, and it would not surprise me that they're just going to try to write all the wrongs from 2024
00:38:56 ◼ ► or, you know, what, what is the phrase from Godfather? Settle all the family debts or something
00:38:59 ◼ ► like that. Um, and so, uh, whatever. I don't think I've ever seen it, but I believe it's business.
00:39:10 ◼ ► Not a good spot for me, my friends. Not a good spot for me. Uh, I love you, Marco. But anyways,
00:39:14 ◼ ► um, the, the point is, is that it would be very refreshing to see them treat AI as a tool or a
00:39:20 ◼ ► means to an end rather than the end itself, which is what the rest of the industry is doing.
00:39:24 ◼ ► So I think they have like, they've been what Marco described. If you asked Apple, they'd be like,
00:39:28 ◼ ► oh, that's what we're doing. But our rebuttal would be, yeah, but the places where you added it to
00:39:33 ◼ ► your products didn't make them better. Like Jen, I mean, I'm not saying Jen Moji is bad, but like,
00:39:38 ◼ ► that's like, what do you, what is your usage of that feature? Like it may have been implemented.
00:39:42 ◼ ► Well, it may have even been integrated well, and it may have been integrated so well that it's not
00:39:45 ◼ ► in your face because you know, you're not being prompted for it a lot, but it's not something
00:39:49 ◼ ► people want to do versus photo editing, which I think is a good use. And transcription is a thing
00:39:53 ◼ ► and developers want to use. So that's a good use. Image playgrounds. They definitely threw in
00:39:57 ◼ ► your face. Image playgrounds is here. Uh, as Marco was talking about, like when you would install
00:40:01 ◼ ► the OS, it would throw it in your face. 48 times. Oh, that's right. That's right. Yeah. It would just
00:40:06 ◼ ► constantly say, Hey, image playgrounds exist because otherwise, how would you find it? It would just be
00:40:09 ◼ ► this app in your applications folder. And it's look, if there was demand for not very good image
00:40:14 ◼ ► generation in a really limited environment, people would find the app, but they don't because it's not
00:40:18 ◼ ► a thing that they want to do. So yeah, the features they do have, I mean, I said, we're not going to cover
00:40:23 ◼ ► everything that they're, that is supposedly coming. We're going to cover a couple of highlights. And
00:40:26 ◼ ► one of them is, uh, the serial overhaul on iOS 27. And German's got a little info on that.
00:40:31 ◼ ► But I think ultimately, before we get there, just ultimately what I want to see is when Apple
00:40:36 ◼ ► either is not really ready to do something well yet, or if the industry is demanding it, but they
00:40:43 ◼ ► don't respect it, they call it a playground. You know, we had swift playgrounds on the iPad and that
00:40:53 ◼ ► broadened since then, but like, it's like, we're not going to give you the full blown environment.
00:40:57 ◼ ► We're going to give you a toy. Here's a toy version of this image playground is, it was a perfect
00:41:02 ◼ ► name for that in Apple's parlance, because they're like this whole, I think we don't respect this. Like
00:41:08 ◼ ► that was obviously like Craig Federighi was very clear about that. He and jaws and the top apple brass
00:41:15 ◼ ► did not respect AI for a long time. Even after the rest of the entries, like this is getting pretty
00:41:22 ◼ ► good, pretty useful. They crapped all over it in public. So you can imagine how bad it must have been in
00:41:29 ◼ ► What they came out against was chat bots. Federighi, according to inside rumors, sort of got religion
00:41:35 ◼ ► about chat GPT or the technology itself back with like GPT version two or something. But what they all
00:41:42 ◼ ► came out publicly against is that thing where you go to chat GPT.com and have a conversation with an LLM
00:41:47 ◼ ► were against that. That's what they were coming out with. And I feel like AI, quote unquote, AI is a much
00:41:52 ◼ ► broader topic than that. But the manifestation that hundreds of millions of people see is I go to a website or I
00:42:00 ◼ ► Yeah, but honestly, that was obviously the wrong take in retrospect. And even then, it's like when
00:42:07 ◼ ► old dudes heard about younger people texting their friends all the time instead of calling them on the
00:42:12 ◼ ► phone. And they were like, that's terrible. Why would anybody want to text their friends? They could
00:42:16 ◼ ► just call them. And you know what? Everyone wants to text their friends, as it turns out. That's a very
00:42:19 ◼ ► generational thing. And I think Jaws and Federighi obviously missed that completely for way too long.
00:42:26 ◼ ► And so as a result, Apple in general just did not see AI as something that they needed to care about when that was
00:42:34 ◼ ► obviously wrong. And so that's kind of what led them to be so far behind among other problems. But what they shipped
00:42:43 ◼ ► was almost like trying to placate the stock market. Like, look, we can AI. Here's a half-assed app that generates some
00:42:50 ◼ ► garbage that nobody will ever use because it's terrible. When Siri was launched in 2011, it started
00:42:57 ◼ ► out in a pretty competitive place for the time. It just never moved forward. And then everyone else did
00:43:04 ◼ ► move forward. Apple's AI stuff wasn't even competitive the day it launched. Like, literally, the day all this
00:43:12 ◼ ► came out, it was already laughed at. It was ridiculous. It was way less capable than everything
00:43:19 ◼ ► that was out on day one. And of course, it never got better. So they were coming from a place of deep
00:43:27 ◼ ► disrespect for all of this. They seemingly saw it as something they were obligated to do by market forces
00:43:34 ◼ ► or the press or whatever. And they crapped out some garbage that they didn't that you could tell
00:43:38 ◼ ► they didn't respect it at all. It was shoved down everyone's thirts through promotion in the settings
00:43:43 ◼ ► app everywhere. Image playgrounds are here. And, you know, you had to click it and dismiss it and
00:43:48 ◼ ► everything to get it to turn off that stupid red badge for that stupid notification for their stupid
00:43:51 ◼ ► promo and their ad for their settings app. Not that I'm upset 48 times. They obviously didn't
00:43:57 ◼ ► respect it. And look at how much that has cost them. They are still so far behind. What I want to see
00:44:03 ◼ ► broadly is signs that they respect it now and have some better idea on how to actually use AI
00:44:12 ◼ ► in their products in a, again, in a well-designed, well-integrated way, not just some like bolted
00:44:18 ◼ ► on crap thing. Like you look at the writing tools, uh, API they did too. Writing tools are pretty rough
00:44:24 ◼ ► in large part because they just punted and didn't make a UI like at all. There's no UI. You just like
00:44:31 ◼ ► right click your menu and do some stuff. And it's like, well, what if you want to like adjust stuff
00:44:34 ◼ ► or see the diffs or anything? Nope. There's no UI because Apple doesn't know how to make UIs anymore
00:44:39 ◼ ► either, apparently, but that's a whole separate topic. But like, I just, again, like I want to see
00:44:43 ◼ ► them take this world seriously and show us that you can make good products. Cause that's what Apple
00:44:49 ◼ ► strengths have usually been is take technology that's out there. It's floating around, use, use their skill,
00:44:57 ◼ ► their, their product sense, their design sense, and their UI chops to make good products out of
00:45:04 ◼ ► compelling tech. We have the compelling tech. We've had it for a while, longer than they think so,
00:45:10 ◼ ► but it's been here for a while. Maybe they finally agree that it's compelling tech. Now let's see,
00:45:15 ◼ ► can they use this compelling tech for any good product features, products, or integrations?
00:45:22 ◼ ► So far they haven't. And so if they continue not to, I'm kind of worried, honestly. If Apple can't
00:45:31 ◼ ► figure out how to make good products with AI or how to integrate AI in a good way into their products
00:45:37 ◼ ► for, for new features and stuff, what are they doing? Where are they going to go the next 10 years?
00:45:42 ◼ ► Like that's, those are major doubts that I have about them that hopefully in a week we will be
00:45:49 ◼ ► able to say, Oh, it seems like they've turned over a new page or a leaf or whatever the expression is.
00:45:54 ◼ ► It seems like they've, they're, they're now in a better direction and look at the, you know,
00:45:58 ◼ ► there are some cool integrations here and maybe the betas have some of them working already,
00:46:02 ◼ ► hopefully fingers crossed. And maybe we can see like signs that they are able to harness this new
00:46:12 ◼ ► It's fair for you to not mention this because they didn't ship it, but what they announced in 2024
00:46:17 ◼ ► and didn't ship is exactly what you're talking about. Like all the stuff that they said it was going to do,
00:46:22 ◼ ► but it never actually did is let's integrate this intelligence into like, I think the Apple
00:46:28 ◼ ► intelligence strategy as articulated, as articulated in WC 2024 was and is the best strategy for Apple,
00:46:33 ◼ ► which is we have all this data about you. Let's let the model know it all. And let's let
00:46:39 ◼ ► you talk to the model and have it manipulate all this data in a privacy preserving way on your device,
00:46:43 ◼ ► because like, we're the only one who we're going to give that kind of access to. We don't want to,
00:46:47 ◼ ► you know, allow chat GPT to have essentially like the equivalent of like the computer control thing,
00:46:52 ◼ ► where it just controls your Mac or whatever. We can do that because we're Apple, but these other things
00:46:56 ◼ ► can't. So we're going to roll out Apple intelligence and you'll be able to ask it when your mom's flight is
00:47:00 ◼ ► arriving and it can see your email and see your messages and see all this end to end encrypted
00:47:03 ◼ ► stuff and do all like that was a thing that would take this technology and make Apple's products better.
00:47:08 ◼ ► They just didn't ship it. Like that's the, was the problem. And what they did ship is everything you
00:47:12 ◼ ► listed, which is like, well, what the heck is this? You don't have a chat bot and you hate chat bots.
00:47:17 ◼ ► You've got image playgrounds, which no one's using. You got Genmoji, which no one's using. You got
00:47:20 ◼ ► writing tools, which is half-hearted at best and terrible. You've got the image cleanup. It doesn't run on my
00:47:24 ◼ ► wife's computer. So I'm mad about that. Um, and everything else, like the bulk of what was in
00:47:28 ◼ ► WWE 24, what I thought of as Apple, the Apple intelligence strategy after that keynote just
00:47:33 ◼ ► didn't arrive for two years. So this is a chance for them to get back to that. But on the topic of
00:47:38 ◼ ► chat bots, and again, getting back to Ehrman, Ehrman, I have some good news, bad news. I think it's,
00:47:42 ◼ ► well, we'll get to it after Casey reads what it is, but I'm, I'm have mixed feelings about the,
00:47:55 ◼ ► illustrations created by Bloomberg show the revamped Siri interface, a new chat bot style app
00:47:59 ◼ ► and other major iOS 27 changes that the company plans to announce at WWDC. The new Siri will
00:48:04 ◼ ► include the delayed features announced in 2024, such as the ability to understand personal data and
00:48:09 ◼ ► analyze on screen content. But those capabilities are just one part of a broader wave of updates,
00:48:14 ◼ ► a rebuilt model that uses Google, Google Gemini technology, AI powered web search and a completely
00:48:19 ◼ ► redesigned interface. There's also a dedicated Siri app designed to complete, to compete more
00:48:25 ◼ ► directly with chat GPT and other AI assistants. So in summary, also Siri in the camera app alongside
00:48:31 ◼ ► photo and video plus customization of the cameras app, camera apps, toolbar icons. And there are a whole
00:48:37 ◼ ► bunch of screenshots in this article. We'll put a link in the show notes. We also have a link in the
00:48:47 ◼ ► They commissioned an artist to draw with it. They had a description of here's what the new Siri
00:48:51 ◼ ► interfaces are going to look like. And so I think the key parts here is basically like,
00:48:54 ◼ ► hey, all that stuff in 2024. Now they're going to do it more or less. And also, did you want a
00:48:59 ◼ ► chat bot? Guess what? The thing that Craig Federighi and Jaws were coming out against two years ago
00:49:04 ◼ ► saying we don't chat bots. We don't think that's it. Apple is going to have one built into the OS.
00:49:09 ◼ ► You'll talk back and forth with Siri, which will really be a Gemini powered LM. The interface
00:49:15 ◼ ► they show is basically like if you pull down from the top, like the dynamic island expands to be a
00:49:19 ◼ ► search box like always. But what the search box has in it now is like search or ask where you can
00:49:24 ◼ ► ask. And presumably that goes to Apple's model that's powered by Gemini. You can also go to
00:49:30 ◼ ► chat GPT in this thing. And supposedly it's third party pluggable. So there may be some competition
00:49:33 ◼ ► there, but then they have screenshots of a chat app, an LM powered chat app, where you're talking
00:49:38 ◼ ► to, to, uh, to Siri, uh, and it's all like dark mode and you ask questions and give responses and it
00:49:45 ◼ ► looks, the mock-up looks like chat GPT basically in dark mode. Only you're not talking to chat GPT.
00:49:50 ◼ ► And, uh, you know, obviously tons of people want to use, you know, AI chat bots because they do,
00:49:59 ◼ ► they use them. I'm still not entirely sure that Apple needs to, or should make one because I am,
00:50:06 ◼ ► I'm, I feel like what they're going to make cannot possibly be as good as the, the real chat bots,
00:50:13 ◼ ► like using chat GPT directly, using clawed directly. Those are, I, I just don't see how Apple can keep
00:50:21 ◼ ► up. Those things get updated all the time and keep improving and keep getting better and better. And
00:50:24 ◼ ► Apple probably can't keep up. And they're going to give you this out to go to the third party,
00:50:28 ◼ ► ones anyways. So it's like this weird way point on your way to going to a real product that people
00:50:34 ◼ ► actually like and use. You can stop off midway through and talk to Apple, Siri back and forth.
00:50:39 ◼ ► And yeah, it'll be smarter than Siri has ever been before because that's not hard. But really,
00:50:43 ◼ ► if you want to actually have a productive, serious conversation, you should go to one of the third
00:50:48 ◼ ► party chat bots because they're going to be better. Um, and when, you know, uh, Federighi and Jaws were
00:50:54 ◼ ► saying, we think chat bots is not it. That's not the way to do it. They were trying to contrast that to,
00:50:58 ◼ ► Hey, it's just going to be, they're just going to be features of your phone. That'll be powered by
00:51:03 ◼ ► this stuff onto the covers, but you won't know it. Your phone will just be more capable. And they felt
00:51:06 ◼ ► like just punting and saying, well, we're not going to do any of that. Instead, there's a window where
00:51:10 ◼ ► you can type text back and forth. Like they already have that. It's on the iPhone. It's called the
00:51:14 ◼ ► chat GPT app. It's called the cloud. Like you just, those are third party apps. And Apple seems like
00:51:23 ◼ ► I have no confidence that the one they have will be competitive. I just, even though they're, even
00:51:28 ◼ ► though they're using Google Gemini under the covers, like, so you would think like, well, at least it'll
00:51:33 ◼ ► be roughly competitive with Google. I'm, I don't believe that. I think it will be worse. I think it
00:51:38 ◼ ► will have fewer features. I think it will advance more slowly. And kind of like how in current iOS,
00:51:42 ◼ ► when you go to chat GPT through Siri with the integration that they've had with open AI since
00:51:46 ◼ ► 2024 or whatever, that it's worse than going to chat GPT directly. I think that will be true of
00:51:52 ◼ ► talking to Siri. So I'm not enthusiastic about that. I'm enthusiastic about them rolling out the
00:51:57 ◼ ► promise features from 2024, where it just, I can ask my phone something and it can look at all the
00:52:02 ◼ ► data that only it can see because it's private on my device and do useful stuff. That's something
00:52:06 ◼ ► that can't be matched by the third party clients because Apple won't let them because Apple doesn't give
00:52:09 ◼ ► them access to your stuff. So that I'm looking forward to, but I cannot see myself ever saying,
00:52:14 ◼ ► you know what? I want to talk to an LLM chat bot and you know what I'm going to do? I'm going to launch
00:52:19 ◼ ► the Siri app and do that. I just don't see that happening. There's, they're so far behind that I
00:52:23 ◼ ► don't feel like they are going to be competitive in this realm. Yeah. I don't think they've ever shown
00:52:29 ◼ ► the ability to be competitive in things like this. You know, in many ways, what Apple's software has,
00:52:37 ◼ ► has seemed like in, oh geez, maybe a decade is it just seems like it's moving at a fairly leisurely
00:52:45 ◼ ► pace in almost every way, except designs, which they're happy to rush and shove through. But like
00:52:51 ◼ ► with the exception of redesigns, which they love apparently with, with that exception, the rest of
00:52:58 ◼ ► it seems to just move glacially. Now I understand this is a significant challenge at their scale.
00:53:05 ◼ ► They have a lot of platforms. They update them all pretty much in lockstep. That's not a small job.
00:53:10 ◼ ► That's also a self-created problem and optional, but Hey, that's not a small job. I get that. But
00:53:16 ◼ ► what it has seemed like, you know, in for a long time is that they just aren't stepping on the gas in this
00:53:23 ◼ ► new, this new era. It seems like they're coasting in software. They're not really pushing things people
00:53:30 ◼ ► want to push. They're not really, you know, participating in this new, this whole new boom
00:53:42 ◼ ► Apple software just doesn't move that quickly. And they don't say, you know, like what you were just
00:53:48 ◼ ► saying, like they, they will put something out there and then it just dies. Like they, it just gets
00:53:53 ◼ ► ignored or, you know, they'll, they'll do the first 80% of something and show off a good demo at WBC and
00:54:00 ◼ ► you'll never hear about it again. It'll never get that last 20% of effort put into it. It'll just kind of
00:54:04 ◼ ► sit there in mediocrity forever until it's eventually discontinued or replaced. That happens
00:54:09 ◼ ► with so much of Apple software. And, you know, it's from, from things like APIs all the way up to apps,
00:54:14 ◼ ► like entire apps, like that, that happens a lot. And it just seems like they're just coasting and not
00:54:20 ◼ ► really stepping on the gas. It seems like they don't really, maybe they don't think they need to.
00:54:25 ◼ ► I don't know, but the entire industry is exploding and booming right now with all sorts of new
00:54:33 ◼ ► potential. So we're not only, we're, we're not seeing Apple take advantage of the new potential
00:54:38 ◼ ► or use the time and resources to polish up all the stuff they already do. Neither one of those things
00:54:46 ◼ ► is happening. And so again, like show signs of some change of direction or ability, or even just
00:54:55 ◼ ► caring, show signs that they can care and follow through with something. Show signs are stepping on
00:55:04 ◼ ► the gas, show signs that they're like, that they're actually active and trying to be competitive in some
00:55:11 ◼ ► way instead of just coasting and resting on their laurels and collecting fees because they're really
00:55:16 ◼ ► good at those things. But let's, let's see them really push on the products a little more.
00:55:21 ◼ ► There, another one of the rumors is third party integration, integration of third party AI that
00:55:26 ◼ ► that will be pluggable, that it won't just be this one deal with open AI, but that you'll be able to
00:55:30 ◼ ► pick from the leading vendors. And, you know, this is the other strategy that lots of people talk
00:55:33 ◼ ► about is like, Apple doesn't need to do this. They just need to integrate with the third parties.
00:55:36 ◼ ► Just, you know, they don't, they don't need to do everything. They're already the, the platform that
00:55:41 ◼ ► people use their mobile, the mobile platform. People use these apps from the most. So why don't
00:55:45 ◼ ► they just integrate? Why don't they just give integration? I mean, one of the reasons they
00:55:48 ◼ ► don't want to do that is obviously they're willing to give their own, uh, LLM stuff, access to all your
00:55:53 ◼ ► contacts and all your messages and all your mail and blah, blah, blah, because they're Apple and they
00:55:56 ◼ ► trust themselves. Right. And they don't trust, you know, Facebook, open AI, Anthropic to get access to
00:56:04 ◼ ► that same data. In theory, they could do it in a privacy preserving way by having really limited
00:56:08 ◼ ► APIs. But, uh, in the end, those companies are probably just like, well, we'll just continue
00:56:12 ◼ ► to get people to, to download our app and onto their phone and use it that way. So there is a
00:56:16 ◼ ► place for a system integration. And the rumor is they're supposed to, you know, have more third
00:56:22 ◼ ► party LLM integration. Does that mean every single place you could ask Siri, there will be a choice to
00:56:26 ◼ ► ask some third party thing. Do you, will you only get to pick one? Will it only be surfaces in some
00:56:29 ◼ ► places that remains to be seen, but that's one of the rumors. Another one in the screen
00:56:33 ◼ ► search where you see, um, the camera app having a, you know, instead of like photo, video, portrait,
00:56:38 ◼ ► blah, blah, that Siri will be an option because they're basically taking visual intelligence,
00:56:42 ◼ ► which was previously hidden under like a, whatever was long press on the action button or whatever the
00:56:45 ◼ ► heck the default shortcut is. They're going to put that right into the camera app, which I think is a
00:56:49 ◼ ► good idea, but that brings up the third party integration thing. Okay. I think the camera app
00:56:54 ◼ ► should have a thing that says, Hey, what is this? You know, that's a question you've been
00:56:58 ◼ ► able to ask with like Google lens for like a decade, I guess. And LMs are way better at it than those old
00:57:02 ◼ ► things used to be. Will the only option be to use the quote unquote Siri camera to ask Siri, which then
00:57:08 ◼ ► asks the Google Gemini model, or will you be able to say, uh, in setting somewhere, what do you want to
00:57:15 ◼ ► use for the thing where you point your camera at something and ask it what it is? And you could say,
00:57:18 ◼ ► Oh, I've got a chat GPT subscription. So I'm going to set that to chat GPT and not Siri.
00:57:22 ◼ ► It seems like that's not going to happen, but that's the type of third party integration that
00:57:26 ◼ ► it's like, you have to choose Apple. Are you going to do everything and actually keep up with it?
00:57:30 ◼ ► I think you're not going to keep up with it. Or are you going to provide the integration needed?
00:57:35 ◼ ► And this case, like in the camera app, I think they could do that in a privacy preserving way,
00:57:39 ◼ ► allow a third party model, you know, like do some integration, maybe not in this release,
00:57:47 ◼ ► I'm like, okay, but if I really wanted to know what it was, would I ever use Siri camera or would I
00:57:52 ◼ ► launch the chat GPT app and use that directly just because I know from experience that it's going to
00:57:57 ◼ ► do a better job or what I use Google lens because I know from experience that's going to do, but it's
00:58:01 ◼ ► not called that anymore. Whatever the heck it's called now. I, in practice, I frequently use the
00:58:05 ◼ ► Google app. I think I described when I had a halogen bulb or whatever, I didn't go to an LLM.
00:58:09 ◼ ► I went to Google image search or whatever, because it does a good job. Now that's probably powered by
00:58:12 ◼ ► Gemini behind the scenes. Anyway, I don't know. I don't care. But the point is I went to their app.
00:58:17 ◼ ► And I think that will continue to be the case. So I expect WWC to be this weird mix of we're doing
00:58:23 ◼ ► a bunch of stuff and we don't suck as bad as we used to. And we're like, okay, well, you know,
00:58:26 ◼ ► good. Not sucking as bad as Siri is a low bar, but you need to do that. But also will there be some
00:58:32 ◼ ► push for like, and also we have third party integrations in select places. And that seems
00:58:37 ◼ ► like it's going to be more half-hearted, which is kind of a shame because I feel like that's what
00:58:42 ◼ ► they should be doing. Like if they, if they are not going to be able to keep up with the big third
00:58:49 ◼ ► parties in terms of the stuff, they should be really good about integrating them. And in the areas where
00:58:54 ◼ ► only quote unquote, only Apple can do it for privacy reasons, that's where they should put all their
00:58:58 ◼ ► effort. Do those features that nobody else can do. And, you know, maybe someday plug a third party
00:59:04 ◼ ► thing into that, but, but we'll see. I don't want to prejudge it because again, maybe they're using
00:59:08 ◼ ► Google's model. So maybe it won't suck as bad as we think it will. But, um, I put it this way.
00:59:12 ◼ ► I look forward to being able to talk to my phone, my thousand dollar, whatever, iPhone, whatever pro
00:59:19 ◼ ► the same way I can talk to my $25, uh, Amazon echo puck that I won in a raffle 10 years ago,
00:59:25 ◼ ► because I can talk to that one. You know what? That one's backed on the server by some decent model.
00:59:30 ◼ ► I talked to it. I don't care how I phrase sentences. I just say any old crap and it gives
00:59:35 ◼ ► me reasonable responses. I cannot do that with my phone. And that, that hopefully will change
00:59:40 ◼ ► next week. It's hard for us to have any faith in Apple's abilities in this area because
00:59:46 ◼ ► Siri hasn't even done like the 10 years ago feature set reliably and well over this time.
00:59:52 ◼ ► And when you look at modern LLM tech, it seems like it would be a godsend to something like Siri
01:00:04 ◼ ► was just like basic reliability and responsiveness and stuff like that. Server failures, response
01:00:08 ◼ ► failures and everything. That's, that's a different problem that they also need to solve. But where
01:00:12 ◼ ► Siri would often, would often fall down is like miss parsing what you meant by your command,
01:00:17 ◼ ► or you ask or like it asks something you, you give a followup and it, it like kind of figures the wrong
01:00:25 ◼ ► direction on what that followup meant or what you were asking or what you were saying, or it drops the
01:00:30 ◼ ► thread or whatever. LLMs are really good at the natural language interface. They're really good at
01:00:38 ◼ ► taking sloppy human input, figuring out what they meant and what a good answer to that would be and
01:00:45 ◼ ► delivering it. And so you would think that this would be exactly what Siri needs, not to become
01:00:53 ◼ ► chat GPT, but to just become a good Siri. That's ultimately what we need from Siri, what we want
01:01:00 ◼ ► from you. Because, you know, John, you're right. Like Apple's never going to be as aggressive about
01:01:05 ◼ ► updates, as aggressive about features. Like they're never, because again, they don't, they can't step on
01:01:10 ◼ ► the gas. They, they are so slow at so many of these areas. So we know they're not going to replace
01:01:16 ◼ ► the desire for most people to have the chat GPT or cloud or Gemini apps on their phones and use them
01:01:23 ◼ ► all the time. Siri is not going to compete with that for most people. And Apple shouldn't try. And I don't
01:01:29 ◼ ► even know if they are trying it, you know, the, the app redesign that was rumored for Siri could just be
01:01:34 ◼ ► like a better way to access Siri instead of it just being in these like ephemeral floating blobs that
01:01:39 ◼ ► just are gone the second that you've stopped looking at them, which is probably a good, a good strategy
01:01:45 ◼ ► for it. But ultimately what we want from Siri is for it to just deliver on what it has always supposed
01:01:50 ◼ ► to deliver on better and reliably. And they should be able to do that with modern LLM tech. It should help
01:01:58 ◼ ► them do that. That's what I want to see. I don't need them to become Gemini or Claude. I need them
01:02:06 ◼ ► to become Siri to actually do Siri. Well, that's what I want to see. And what, and if they just put a
01:02:15 ◼ ► new UI on the same old crap Siri again, uh, then that's not really going to do it for me. Um, but I,
01:02:22 ◼ ► I think, I mean, look, we, we keep giving them chances over and over again, every year there for the last
01:02:27 ◼ ► few years, there's been rumors that Siri's about to get better. It hasn't, uh, maybe this will be the
01:02:32 ◼ ► year that, that it gets something other than a superficial interface tweak or a superficial,
01:02:38 ◼ ► you know, you know, tweak to its basic behavior. But I want to see something beyond superficial. I want to
01:02:43 ◼ ► see the results of them having stepped on the gas ever on Siri and actually being able to deliver
01:02:51 ◼ ► something better. You keep using the car analogy, but I think the serious situation is that the last car
01:02:54 ◼ ► they were going to exploded and then they had to build a new car and clean up the, the wreckage
01:03:00 ◼ ► from the old ones. So thus the delay, although again, we talked about this on past episode that
01:03:05 ◼ ► like supposedly like the 26.4 update was supposed to have a bunch of Siri advances and they kept
01:03:09 ◼ ► delaying that. So if they, uh, announce, you know, all these Siri features that we just described
01:03:14 ◼ ► at a WWDC at the keynote and they say, uh, but actually some of these features are not shipping
01:03:20 ◼ ► until the fall. Well, then we're going to be like, Oh, which features, you know, the ones that are
01:03:26 ◼ ► actually good and that make Siri not suck. We'll see. We'll see. We'll see. We'll see what they've
01:03:31 ◼ ► learned. Cause I feel like they've had, they have had some hard lessons about announcing things at WWDC,
01:03:34 ◼ ► but everything that we just went through with the government river seemed pretty solid, a chatbot
01:03:38 ◼ ► interface, a Gemini powered Siri, the, the photos thing or whatever. So I think they'll have some
01:03:44 ◼ ► good features and I think they will, you know, cause again, the Gemini deal, the Gemini deal is the thing
01:03:48 ◼ ► that gives me the most faith. I know Gemini exists and works and I used it. And so if that is powering
01:03:53 ◼ ► their backend, I know they'll probably make it a little bit worse, but hopefully they won't be
01:03:57 ◼ ► able to make it that much worse. I don't know. We'll see what happens. I just, I hope there's
01:04:01 ◼ ► more to this than just AI talk in, I mean, both WWDC and the rest of this episode because we've caught
01:04:05 ◼ ► on a tear, but well, you should go to the Mac OS topic next. Oh God, because none of us have opinions
01:04:10 ◼ ► about that. All right. So on AI, not AI at least. All right. The 10th of May, it's also not
01:04:16 ◼ ► intelligent. Oh, sick burn. The 10th of May, Mark Ehrman writes though, the Mac software introduced
01:04:21 ◼ ► the same liquid glass interface seen in iOS 26. The design language hasn't translated as smoothly
01:04:26 ◼ ► to the larger displays and different input methods of desktops and laptops. Part of the reason is that
01:04:32 ◼ ► liquid glass was created with more modern hardware in mind. I'm sorry. What? I believe it was
01:04:42 ◼ ► So let me repeat what I just said. Part of the reason is that liquid glass was created with more
01:04:46 ◼ ► modern hardware in mind. The crisp OLED displays that are used on iPhones, some iPads and Apple
01:04:51 ◼ ► watches. Macs also continue to use LCD displays, which don't render translucency shadows and glass
01:04:56 ◼ ► effects as effectively as OLED screens. I'm sorry. What the fuck is he on? What is he talking
01:05:02 ◼ ► about? This is like, we can fix the butterfly keyboard, but we just need to put a gasket under all
01:05:08 ◼ ► of Mark Gurman's infuriating writing style, let's call it, it's impossible for me to tell if the BS
01:05:15 ◼ ► that you just read is Mark Gurman offering opinion or conjecture or if it's sourced. I think it's Mark
01:05:21 ◼ ► Gurman offering opinion or conjecture and that opinion or conjecture is stupid. Yes. Because
01:05:25 ◼ ► can't render translucency on an LCD? Why? Like if the contrast is higher and you get better blacks on an
01:05:34 ◼ ► OLED, but rendering translucency has to do with compositing multiple layers to come up with the
01:05:39 ◼ ► final pixel color. Like aqua on 10.0 on LCDs had plenty of translucency and was rendered fine. So
01:05:46 ◼ ► the OLED thing just makes no sense to me. The best I can come up with is if you have a bad quality display
01:05:51 ◼ ► and you have a UI that has like barely any difference between two adjoining shades of white
01:05:57 ◼ ► that it looks bad. But that's not the LCD's fault. That's the fault of the person who made a UI where you
01:06:02 ◼ ► have two colors of white that are almost the same right next to each other. That's the problem. And
01:06:07 ◼ ► it doesn't look any better on OLED. OLED correctly renders the tiny difference in whites between the
01:06:11 ◼ ► two things and so do LCDs. So this, this is old news, I know, but like it's infuriating because it's
01:06:16 ◼ ► like of all the nonsense reasons to try to excuse liquid glass on the Mac, blaming on the lack of OLED
01:06:23 ◼ ► screens for Mac is just the most ridiculous thing I've heard. And I don't think this has anything to do
01:06:28 ◼ ► with Apple. I don't think an Apple source is saying this. I don't think anyone at Apple would
01:06:31 ◼ ► agree with this. So I'm just really dumping on Mark German. But in case you heard this, they're like,
01:06:34 ◼ ► oh, liquid glass looks bad because Macs don't have OLED screens and that's going to change soon.
01:06:46 ◼ ► is not going to be solved by OLED screens. You know, if you look at most of liquid glass's
01:06:53 ◼ ► failures, like, cause again, like I want to be clear, I don't hate everything about liquid glass.
01:06:58 ◼ ► I just think it has some bad designs. Number one for me is text in a computer UI should never be
01:07:07 ◼ ► blurry period. I will hear no other arguments on that topic. Blurry text is bad design.
01:07:14 ◼ ► So where do you see blurry text in liquid glass? Everywhere. Okay. Why? Because they made a
01:07:21 ◼ ► barless design. Basically you have navigation bars, toolbars, and sidebars, and they decided all of those
01:07:28 ◼ ► things should either be gone, but still have the controls float or be very, very, very translucent to
01:07:34 ◼ ► the point where they get these blur overlays and these blur effects at the edges. So liquid glass,
01:07:40 ◼ ► the design is filled with basically kludges, hacks, bad hacks that they're like, okay, we started from a
01:07:49 ◼ ► place of, we want everything to be transparent and floating over the content to respect the content
01:07:54 ◼ ► law. Okay. But we're going to float everything over the content and be translucent. So then, okay,
01:07:59 ◼ ► how do, how do scrolling bars work? Oh, well, I guess we'll, we have to blur things, you know,
01:08:05 ◼ ► progressively blur them as they get closer to the edges. So they scroll better or whatever. Like
01:08:09 ◼ ► that was a bad solution to a precondition they created with the design that should probably be
01:08:16 ◼ ► revisited because what's, what's better than blurring text is not creating the conditions that you need to
01:08:25 ◼ ► blur the text to use the controls. Okay. Let's look at designs to do that. Maybe bars are the solution.
01:08:33 ◼ ► I don't know. I just throwing it out there because I think we might've had those in the past and they
01:08:39 ◼ ► might've been fine. Maybe some kind of bars to separate content from control areas. Bear with me.
01:08:49 ◼ ► maybe the controls shouldn't be on top of and blended in with the content. Maybe to respect the
01:08:58 ◼ ► content, having the controls be separate is not only better for the design, but also better for the
01:09:05 ◼ ► controls and better for the content. I know that's very radical today, but just consider the possibility.
01:09:13 ◼ ► so anyway, what liquid glass needs and, and what I am hoping to see, although I don't expect much,
01:09:19 ◼ ► but what I am hoping to see is tweaks to the design that still keep some of the aesthetic of it that like
01:09:27 ◼ ► the parts that are good, because there are parts of it that are good. Um, but that remove the need for
01:09:34 ◼ ► bad hacks, like blurring text everywhere. Cause that is always a bad hack. The other thing I would love to
01:09:41 ◼ ► see removed, um, is they have this amazing system where when you have an app with a sidebar, the sidebar is supposed to be
01:09:51 ◼ ► translucent now and content is supposed to appear under it. Now, what if there isn't content under it? Because what if like
01:09:58 ◼ ► the thing that is on the, on the right side, uh, like the content area, what if it doesn't have additional content that is
01:10:05 ◼ ► under the bar on the left, logically speaking, or that content would be inaccessible? Well, they have a whole system
01:10:11 ◼ ► they recommend that you do where you mirror a fake mirror of the content on the right under the bar on the left, just for the
01:10:20 ◼ ► purposes of blurring under that bar. So you're blurring mirrored fake content under it. So you get color blobs going through
01:10:28 ◼ ► there. So liquid glass looks coherent. That is the most ridiculous thing ever. That's the kind of hack
01:10:35 ◼ ► that like, if your design requires that to look coherent, it's a bad design system that needs to be
01:10:42 ◼ ► revisited. That needs to be iterated. So what I want to see is liquid glass being tweaked to need fewer
01:10:58 ◼ ► Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you're not wrong. And the thing of it is, is that I, I am actually mostly okay
01:11:05 ◼ ► with liquid glass, which I know is blasphemous and I'm probably going to get fired for saying that, but
01:11:08 ◼ ► I'm mostly okay with it, but it's certainly least well considered on Mac OS. Again, this is not an original
01:11:14 ◼ ► thought. Um, but I would really love to see, I, I think some people in our little commentary or whatever the
01:11:21 ◼ ► word is I'm looking for are like, Oh, they should just crap, you know, put, put it in the can and
01:11:25 ◼ ► walk away from liquid glass. And Hey, they're never going to do that, but it's never going to happen.
01:11:29 ◼ ► Yeah. I don't think it's necessary. Like there are some grumbly people on Mastodon that are like,
01:11:33 ◼ ► Oh, I should just walk it back and never touch it again. I don't think that's necessary. I think
01:11:38 ◼ ► it looks pretty good even on Mac OS for the most part, but I think it would be nice to do what they did.
01:11:45 ◼ ► As we all said last summer, do what they did with iOS seven and walk back some of the more
01:11:50 ◼ ► aggressive stuff to make it a little more, I almost said, well-rounded. That's probably not
01:11:54 ◼ ► the phrase I want here, but make it a little more palatable. And I, I think there'll be some of that.
01:12:00 ◼ ► I doubt they'll call attention to it, but I think there'll be some of it and I'm looking forward to
01:12:05 ◼ ► it. I'm looking forward to it on all the platforms, even though I think as we all agree, and again,
01:12:09 ◼ ► not an original thought, I think Mac OS needs it the most, but I would like to see it pretty much
01:12:17 ◼ ► Also, I would say like, again, even setting aside design changes, the implementation is
01:12:27 ◼ ► on iOS, like a floating glass button, like a toolbar button. If you tap the edge of that
01:12:35 ◼ ► button, it, it plays the animation of you tapping the button, but the button tap does not fire.
01:12:42 ◼ ► So if you don't hit the middle of a button, you can think you're hitting a button and it doesn't
01:12:47 ◼ ► actually trigger the action. And there is no way for the underlying app to change that a lot of the
01:12:54 ◼ ► time. So like there's little implementation bug or like, you know, bad animations. Like there's,
01:13:00 ◼ ► there's little bugs like this all over the system that make it difficult for us as developers to make
01:13:05 ◼ ► good UIs with liquid glass. And so if let's assume that you like liquid glass and support it and want
01:13:14 ◼ ► it to stay, well then at least give us the ability to make good apps with it. Like get, make it work
01:13:21 ◼ ► better. Obviously there's, I'm going to have my opinion about changes to the components, things like
01:13:26 ◼ ► bars and stuff. Fine. But even if you don't change anything like that, make the current system work
01:13:32 ◼ ► better. Cause it, right now it still is full of paper cuts. So continuing with what Mark Gurman said,
01:13:38 ◼ ► I'm told the company is preparing what people internally consider to be a quote, slight redesign
01:13:43 ◼ ► quote for Mac OS 27. With the next update, Apple aims to address the shadows and transparency quirks.
01:13:48 ◼ ► Last year's operating systems didn't necessarily suffer from design problems. I'm told, but rather
01:13:56 ◼ ► Hmm. So this gets to what Marco was saying is like, okay, well, some of the stuff didn't work
01:14:00 ◼ ► well. And so I, I totally agree that like what they shipped was filled with bugs. I've had to deal
01:14:05 ◼ ► with them for an entire year on Mac OS. They're really bad, uh, on other platforms that also have
01:14:10 ◼ ► problems. Uh, and this is source, this is not just Gurman. So he's saying what he's told, uh, and what
01:14:15 ◼ ► people internally, uh, consider, you know, to be a slight redesign. Um, whoever the internal source,
01:14:22 ◼ ► uh, was that said the system doesn't necessarily suffer from design problems, but just did not
01:14:27 ◼ ► complete implementation. Why not both as they say? Uh, yeah, the implementation was bad and not
01:14:32 ◼ ► completely baked. I a hundred percent agree. You know what else was bad? The design as Marco just
01:14:37 ◼ ► got through explaining. Like, I, I don't know why this, I mean, I guess I think this doesn't bother
01:14:44 ◼ ► people just because they don't see how this design leads to all the problems they're seeing.
01:14:48 ◼ ► And they think like, Oh, we can fix this by just tweaking things and changing transparency and you
01:14:53 ◼ ► can improve things. But you know, I think I made a list of these three things many months ago when I
01:14:58 ◼ ► was trying to boil it down to what's wrong with liquid glass, but it's basically the fundamental
01:15:01 ◼ ► thing of like, um, I don't know, picture an image editor and you open an image and the image is a
01:15:07 ◼ ► picture of somebody and the entire picture fills the window. It's like, okay, there's the picture.
01:15:11 ◼ ► All right. But liquid glass says, okay, but in this application, you don't just look at the
01:15:16 ◼ ► picture. We want you to have tools so you can like edit the picture or crop the picture or scribble
01:15:20 ◼ ► on the picture or whatever. And the liquid glass solution to this is take that picture that's
01:15:25 ◼ ► filling the window and take a bunch of capsule shaped things and drop them on top of the edges
01:15:32 ◼ ► of the picture. So they're floating on top of the picture. And now you can't see part of the picture
01:15:37 ◼ ► because the controls are floating on top of it. And then that's where we get into things that
01:15:40 ◼ ► Marco was talking about. Okay. But what if I want to see the thing that's like the tool palette is
01:15:43 ◼ ► blocking the picture? What if I want to see that? Can't I just scroll the picture? So it's not
01:15:48 ◼ ► underneath the toolbar? No, you can't because then what would be underneath the toolbar? So now you've
01:15:51 ◼ ► got to do the mirror image thing. And it's like, this is just plain a bad idea. You don't start with
01:15:57 ◼ ► content edge to edge and then drop a bunch of capsules on top of it. That's a bad idea. That is
01:16:01 ◼ ► fundamentally a bad design for a user interface for a million reasons that we are all experiencing,
01:16:07 ◼ ► maybe developers more than other people, but just there's no way around it. You either can't have
01:16:12 ◼ ► content underneath the thing, in which case it's not floating on top of the content anymore, or you
01:16:16 ◼ ► can. And once you do have something floating on top of the content, then you want to show it through.
01:16:20 ◼ ► And that's also a bad idea. And then you don't want to be able to see the whole image. Now you got
01:16:23 ◼ ► to do the mirror blur thing, or it's just, it's just a bad idea. And as Marco said, like this was,
01:16:28 ◼ ► this wasn't a problem that needed to be solved. This is a new problem that they have introduced
01:16:38 ◼ ► it's still going to be the ideal is a bunch of content edge to edge with a bunch of things dropped
01:16:43 ◼ ► on top of it floating. That's not going to change. All they're talking about is maybe we'll tweak some
01:16:48 ◼ ► of the blurred edge things and the transparency and the blah, blah, blah. But the fundamental design
01:16:52 ◼ ► of liquid glass we are stuck with for probably a very long time. And that fundamental design is bad.
01:16:58 ◼ ► It's not the worst thing ever. It doesn't break the computer. You can still use it. It's fine,
01:17:02 ◼ ► but it's a bunch of bad ideas. And it just kills me that they're going to spend brain power and years
01:17:07 ◼ ► and years of effort to try to take what is a fundamentally bad idea for a user interface and
01:17:12 ◼ ► try to make it as least bad as possible. When they could have gone in a million other directions that
01:17:17 ◼ ► would have been like, let's identify problems that people are having with UI and solve them versus
01:17:21 ◼ ► let's identify something that has heretofore not been a problem and make it a problem and spend the next
01:17:26 ◼ ► half decade fixing that problem. And that is frustrating. But I still, I welcome any improvements
01:17:33 ◼ ► to liquid glass, but it's, you know, we have to wait for the next big redesign for them to fix this
01:17:38 ◼ ► because it's just so fundamental to everything they've done. We got to wait for the stupid 20th
01:17:44 ◼ ► anniversary phone. They'd be like, see, this is why they did it. It's like, no, you could have it
01:17:47 ◼ ► on that phone too. It would have been fine. But anyway, yeah, it is something to look forward to is
01:17:52 ◼ ► to see how they tweak it. And also honestly, as from a developer's perspective, yeah, please do fix
01:17:57 ◼ ► the bugs because setting aside the bad ideas in the design when things just don't work, that makes
01:18:02 ◼ ► everybody sad. So I hope they do make a lot of progress there. All right. Beyond, this is still
01:18:08 ◼ ► German, beyond adjusting the look of liquid glass, Apple will focus on bug fixes, battery life upgrades
01:18:13 ◼ ► and performance improvements. Yay. Another new iOS 27 and macOS 27 feature is a potentially helpful addition
01:18:18 ◼ ► to Safari that mimics something Google Chrome is for had for years. Oh, no, I smell AI coming.
01:18:22 ◼ ► Apple's testing a feature that can automatically organize tabs into groups. When enabled, the system
01:18:28 ◼ ► says that tabs will group into topics you browse. The feature isn't labeled as an Apple intelligence
01:18:33 ◼ ► enhancement in the system, but it's clearly using some form of AI to work. I mean, I think that is a useful
01:18:38 ◼ ► feature. Like people, no one wants a manual. Most people don't want to manually organize their tabs.
01:18:42 ◼ ► Most people have no organization whatsoever. And if there was a feature of Safari that said,
01:18:45 ◼ ► it looks like these are the tabs where you're trying to figure out what refrigerator you're
01:18:48 ◼ ► going to buy. And these are the tabs where you're ordering takeout. And you know what I mean? Like
01:18:51 ◼ ► that it could put them into groups because Safari has had tab groups and pin tabs and stuff like that
01:18:56 ◼ ► for a long time, but only the most meticulous people actually use them. So some kind of machine
01:19:00 ◼ ► learning powered sort of, oh, it looks like you're, it looks like you're trying to write a letter
01:19:04 ◼ ► clippy style thing where it makes a tab groups for you could be cool. This is also a good test of
01:19:10 ◼ ► Apple's ability not to shove this crap in your face, right? Is it going to be like image playgrounds
01:19:15 ◼ ► again? And where you're not going to be able to launch Siri and without shoving this, you know,
01:19:20 ◼ ► we can smartly organize your, it's like, okay, okay, chill out. If it's a feature people want,
01:19:24 ◼ ► like, I know you got to make it discoverable or whatever, but like, don't, I don't need it to be
01:19:28 ◼ ► thrown in my face a million times. Just do a good job on the feature, support it and see how well
01:19:35 ◼ ► it's adopted. But yeah, I don't, I hope hopefully it doesn't mess up the interface too much, but
01:19:39 ◼ ► yeah, there's no escaping, uh, Apple intelligence machine learning features, even in Safari.
01:19:45 ◼ ► So there's been a lot of hardware that we keep hearing has been delayed by Siri. There's the
01:19:50 ◼ ► alleged home pod with a screen. There's the God forsaken Apple TV. I am desperate to get a new
01:19:58 ◼ ► Apple TV so I can trickle down. I want to trickle down because I have like a three generation back
01:20:03 ◼ ► one in the tailgate tub. That is also my travel Apple TV. And that's the problem. The current one
01:20:08 ◼ ► just bought a new Apple TV for your tub. I should have, I didn't realize I was going to be waiting
01:20:11 ◼ ► 18 frigging years. Um, no, the, the one in the living room, which is the most modern one, I can't
01:20:17 ◼ ► keep the generation straight. The one in the living room is great. Occasionally it feels a touch slow,
01:20:21 ◼ ► but 99% of the time it's great. The one we have in the bedroom, which is one generation back
01:20:25 ◼ ► is 80% of the time, pretty good. If not great. Occasionally it's a little meh, but generally
01:20:30 ◼ ► speaking, it's more than enough. The tailgate tub one is what is that two generations back
01:20:35 ◼ ► and it's getting real rough down there. So, and again, the tailgate tub one is our travel one.
01:20:40 ◼ ► And yes, you can laugh at me and say it's unnecessary to bring an Apple TV with me, but you know what?
01:20:44 ◼ ► Not only is it unnecessary, but it's something I enjoy. So get off my back. But anyways, the point is I
01:20:50 ◼ ► really need that one to get upgraded, which really means I want to do a trickle down. And so please Apple,
01:20:54 ◼ ► for the love of God, I don't think I'll be able to get to Mac rumor's buyer's guide quick enough,
01:20:58 ◼ ► but suffice it to say it's been like 300 frigging years, uh, since the Apple TV has been updated.
01:21:05 ◼ ► It is really preposterous. Oh, I was able to make it four years, 1324 days, October of 2022. So we are
01:21:14 ◼ ► coming upon four years, four years. This is basically half of my youngest child's life.
01:21:23 ◼ ► She has only known one Apple TV, which is a phrase I kind of wish I could have back now,
01:21:27 ◼ ► but I've already said it. So here we are anyway. Uh, so maybe an Apple TV with an A17 pro or perhaps
01:21:32 ◼ ► a revised remote. I, again, I've always been an Apple TV remote apologist, especially the current one.
01:21:37 ◼ ► I actually really, really like, uh, so that doesn't bother me any, but I know I'm standing
01:21:41 ◼ ► mostly alone on that. And for those of you who enjoy HomePods, uh, particularly the HomePod mini,
01:21:49 ◼ ► Yeah. So the Apple TV and the HomePod mini are rumored to have been done for just ages.
01:21:53 ◼ ► They're just sitting there. The hardware has been done for months and months and months,
01:21:56 ◼ ► but of course they can't ship them like so many of these things like the HomePod with the screen,
01:21:59 ◼ ► which is also rumored to have had the hardware been done for months and months and months
01:22:02 ◼ ► because they rely on Siri not sucking and having features that they said we're going to be ready,
01:22:08 ◼ ► but aren't. And so the hardware has just been sitting there gone. I mean, I guess they could have
01:22:15 ◼ ► we're going to, it's the flagship feature of the, you know, TV OS 27. It's got, you know,
01:22:20 ◼ ► it's all of a piece. So a lot of hardware has been delayed. And if you're going to delay some
01:22:23 ◼ ► hardware, this is probably the hardware to delay. It's fine. Especially like HomePod with the screen,
01:22:26 ◼ ► which I don't know if people are clamoring for, but the rumor is that, uh, now that the 27 OSs are
01:22:32 ◼ ► going to be announced, this hardware is free to be released. The question is, will Apple mention
01:22:36 ◼ ► any of this hardware at WWDC? Some of the rumors say, yeah, they're going to introduce all of this
01:22:40 ◼ ► hardware at WWDC because why wouldn't they? It's been sitting around. It's totally ready to go.
01:22:44 ◼ ► They probably already have all the promo. It's like, why wouldn't they launch them? But then
01:22:48 ◼ ► I look at this hardware, I'm like, when Apple announces hardware at WWDC, they usually like
01:22:52 ◼ ► to have some kind of like flag bearer, really impressive, exciting thing like MacBook pros
01:22:57 ◼ ► or something, which are, you know, again, those are the old ones are not coming out until much later.
01:23:00 ◼ ► So they're not going to be announced, but, and I don't think any one of these devices or even all
01:23:05 ◼ ► three of these devices are significant enough for them to give them a slot at WWDC, but who knows,
01:23:10 ◼ ► maybe they don't have a lot of other things to talk about. Um, so I'm not actually expecting
01:23:14 ◼ ► these to come out at WWDC, but I am expecting them to come out shortly after because, or at least be
01:23:20 ◼ ► announced shortly after, I think they can't ship obviously until the 27 OS has actually come out.
01:23:24 ◼ ► So maybe fall ish. Um, but yeah, the one, the one I actually am most excited about is the Apple TV,
01:23:30 ◼ ► not because of the trickle down reason, but just because it is old and the vague rumors of a possibly
01:23:37 ◼ ► revised remote. Even if it's just like we made one of the buttons microscopically concave when before
01:23:42 ◼ ► it was microscopically convex or whatever, they already do that on the buttons, but it's so slight.
01:23:46 ◼ ► Anyway, any change that remote would be good for me. It is much better than the remote it replaced,
01:23:50 ◼ ► but I still feel like there's tons of room for improvement. And I have frequently found cursing
01:23:54 ◼ ► that remote because when the skip intro button comes up and you know, it's only there for a brief
01:23:58 ◼ ► period of time, I have a short window of time with which I have to grab the Apple TV remote off of
01:24:05 ◼ ► whatever end table that it's on. And I have to press the one and only largest button on this remote
01:24:11 ◼ ► to activate the skip intro button. And my success rate at that is terrible. And I refuse to blame
01:24:18 ◼ ► myself. I'm a good video game player. I can press buttons. Why is this so hard? Because I haven't
01:24:23 ◼ ► fully disabled the touch interface. And why have I not fully disabled the touch interface and settings?
01:24:28 ◼ ► Because it is actually the fastest, most efficient way to navigate the UI. But it also totally destroys
01:24:32 ◼ ► my ability to press buttons without accidentally swiping or something. So I really don't like the
01:24:37 ◼ ► remote, even though it is better than the one that replaced it. And I'm looking forward to any mild
01:24:40 ◼ ► revisions. And hey, A17 Pro. And you know, I think they need that one because it'll run quote unquote
01:24:46 ◼ ► Apple intelligence, whatever the heck that means. But maybe that will mean when I talk to my Siri remote
01:24:51 ◼ ► and ask it to do TV things, it'll be slightly better. It's already pretty good because it's,
01:24:54 ◼ ► it's problem domain is so narrow. Normally, when I say, you know, press the remote and say,
01:24:58 ◼ ► watch, blah, blah, blah, it does a pretty good job of finding that. Maybe if they make it LM powered,
01:25:02 ◼ ► I can have more sophisticated conversations like show me, you know, watch, blah, blah, blah,
01:25:07 ◼ ► but show me the version I bought on the iTunes store and not any of the other ones. And it will
01:25:10 ◼ ► understand that when I say it just like that, my Amazon puck could do it. So I'm looking forward to
01:25:17 ◼ ► that. And I'm not particularly excited about the HomePod with the screen, but who knows?
01:25:24 ◼ ► Will there be, will there be any hardware at WWC? And if so, will this be among the hardware?
01:25:28 ◼ ► The only reason I can imagine there being hardware, and I think Upgrade was saying this
01:25:32 ◼ ► this week, is that that would give a convenient excuse for, um, for Ternus to be emceeing for at
01:25:39 ◼ ► least a portion of it. And maybe we can look at the tea leaves about, uh, the way this is going to
01:25:45 ◼ ► be handled. We should talk about that before we end the segment, but I could see that as like a
01:25:49 ◼ ► convenient excuse, but leaving that aside, no, I don't think they're going to talk about hardware.
01:25:54 ◼ ► Yeah. And again, I didn't gather up all the rumors. There may be some other rumor hardware,
01:25:58 ◼ ► but as far as I know, like, you know, nothing, nothing big. It's just these, these ones are
01:26:03 ◼ ► people rumoring these ones because they're ready. And just because they're ready doesn't mean
01:26:06 ◼ ► they're going to be announced or, you know, WWC. Because again, they can't ship until the 27 OS is
01:26:11 ◼ ► around and that's not going to happen until fall at the earliest or not fall. When does iOS usually
01:26:15 ◼ ► come out? Is it fall? Yeah. It's usually, you know, early September. Yeah. It's early fall versus
01:26:20 ◼ ► sometimes later fall. The Mac OS will come out later fall, but unless they just ship it when at the
01:26:24 ◼ ► state it's in an early fall, like they did with 26.0 and that was terrible. I mean, we know they're
01:26:28 ◼ ► going to ship it. They're going to ship it with the new iPhones. That's it. They used to delay. Yeah.
01:26:31 ◼ ► I'm saying for Mac OS, they used to delay Mac OS until like October sometimes, but, uh, this most
01:26:35 ◼ ► recent year, I feel like they didn't do that. Nope. They, I mean, this is, you know, modern Apple. They,
01:26:41 ◼ ► they ship whatever they've got at that time, whether it's finished or not, they shove it out
01:26:46 ◼ ► there. I have a, yeah, I have a, I was going to say constants, but I have, I have let vars in my code
01:26:51 ◼ ► for Mac OS 26.0, Mac OS 26.1, Mac OS 26.2, Mac OS. These are all, I have conditions on all of these
01:27:00 ◼ ► things in my code to say, okay, in 26.0, you needed to do this, but then 26.1, you need to do this in
01:27:04 ◼ ► 26 because of like tweaks to metrics and controls. It didn't work. So yeah, the 26.0 release has just
01:27:11 ◼ ► been a nightmare in terms of how the bugs have shifted and moved around in Mac OS using Swift UI
01:27:16 ◼ ► or whatever. So I'm looking forward to 27, not repeating that. And maybe I can just have one
01:27:21 ◼ ► thing that says 27 or later. Imagine that. All right. Let's talk names. Uh, Mac rumors had noticed
01:27:29 ◼ ► way back when that a bunch of shell companies had registered, I think trademarks, it doesn't really
01:27:34 ◼ ► matter, but had done something to, uh, just basically pee on and claim as their own a bunch of different
01:27:40 ◼ ► names. And of those that have been used already, or the taking away the ones that have been used
01:27:45 ◼ ► already, Mac rumors has come up with the following list as potential names, California, Condor, Diablo,
01:27:52 ◼ ► Garalon, Grizzly, Mammoth, Miramar, Pacific, Redtail, Redwood, Rincon, Shasta, or maybe Shasta. I don't
01:28:01 ◼ ► even know. Skyline and Tiburon of these options. Are there any that jump at, jump out at you as
01:28:07 ◼ ► absolutely? Yes. Absolutely. No, or maybe. Well, so to begin with, uh, I want to say that I hope that
01:28:15 ◼ ► they continue to give Mac OS names. They don't have to be California names, but it's one of the last
01:28:21 ◼ ► places of like fun for the sake of fun in Apple's products. Everything else is so regimented,
01:28:26 ◼ ► especially now they're all in the same number and everything. The big cat names were fun.
01:28:30 ◼ ► California place names are less fun maybe than big cat names, but still fun. And this is one of the,
01:28:36 ◼ ► you know, the, one of these sort of like, uh, inconsequential things that's going to be announced
01:28:41 ◼ ► at WAC is what is the new name of Mac OS. It was more fun when Mac OS was in better shape and we could
01:28:45 ◼ ► just enjoy this as a frizzy thing on top of an OS that we loved. And now we're just kind of all grumpy
01:28:50 ◼ ► about the glass or whatever, but still this is a fun part of, of the announcement. And again,
01:28:55 ◼ ► I love the fact that it has no consequences. Now this list, as you noted, there's been a bunch of
01:29:00 ◼ ► names that were in this trademark list of these shell companies getting trademarks for Apple
01:29:04 ◼ ► that they did use. Like Sequoia was on there. I think Sonoma, I forget which ones have been,
01:29:08 ◼ ► but they did use some of these, but I think also they have had Mac OS releases that didn't come from
01:29:12 ◼ ► this list. So I'm not entirely sure that the new name will be on this list. It could be something
01:29:17 ◼ ► it's not on this list at all. In particular, the first name that you read is interesting where I
01:29:21 ◼ ► feel like, uh, if they ever use Mac OS, California, that's the end of the California names. That's the
01:29:26 ◼ ► last one. Like once you use that there, I feel like they would announce, uh, Mac OS, California,
01:29:31 ◼ ► and this will mark the end. I guess they would announce that they would just find out next year,
01:29:37 ◼ ► Uh, I don't know. I could see them. I know they don't typically look back that much, but I could
01:29:41 ◼ ► see them saying, you know, this is the 50th anniversary of the company or 50th birthday,
01:29:45 ◼ ► whatever you want to call it at the company. So we wanted to do something big. Uh, let's call it
01:29:51 ◼ ► Yeah. And I have to, as much as I dislike liquid glass, uh, Mac OS 26 should have been skyline,
01:29:56 ◼ ► right? The codename was solarium or solaria or whatever it was. The codename was like a sun sky
01:30:02 ◼ ► sky based word. It should have been skyline. I'm glad they didn't use it because, because
01:30:06 ◼ ► I don't like Mac OS 26. And so I'm glad they didn't use skyline for it, but it's, it was
01:30:10 ◼ ► like a, a glass OS sky glass. I know skyline is a place or whatever, but it's a chili chain.
01:30:15 ◼ ► Um, I like skyline. I, that's one of my favorite names. I don't predict that it's going to be
01:30:20 ◼ ► used, but on this list, I like that one. And also the other one on this list that, uh, is
01:30:23 ◼ ► funny to me is, uh, Farallon. I'm pretty sure like so many things from my youth, like that
01:30:30 ◼ ► I didn't know. I'm pretty sure that there was a classic Mac OS networking company with that name,
01:30:36 ◼ ► uh, that I read in like Mac magazines when I was a kid, only when my child's brain saw that word and
01:30:43 ◼ ► just scanned it, it pronounced it internally as let's see, Falron, which is not how you pronounce
01:30:51 ◼ ► it. It's F A R A L L O N. But I had no idea there was a place with that name. I just knew it as a
01:30:57 ◼ ► networking company that I internally mispronounced because I had never heard anyone speak that
01:31:00 ◼ ► name. I think until you just said it Casey. Right. And so my whole childhood, I'm going to like,
01:31:04 ◼ ► it's one of those Falron networking things or whatever. Nope. It was clearly a place that was
01:31:09 ◼ ► probably from that part of California and named themselves after it. And, uh, you know, I don't
01:31:14 ◼ ► know the names of places in California. I think we've all proven that we don't know these names.
01:31:17 ◼ ► Um, although I did know Mavericks. Uh, but yeah, Farallon is, uh, probably my bottom choice
01:31:28 ◼ ► being a thing. I don't know where skyline California is. Uh, I don't know anything about
01:31:32 ◼ ► California geography. There was that movie with the aliens invaded that was called skyline.
01:31:35 ◼ ► I thought it was because like all the aliens are coming from the sky. No, it's a place.
01:31:38 ◼ ► Well, it's also skyline drive in Virginia. And, uh, I think it's actually skyline is only in
01:31:45 ◼ ► let me see if there is, this is a skyline skyline, California. Oh, either way. Uh, I've,
01:31:50 ◼ ► I view skyline as a Virginia thing. So I both love and hate that as an idea because you know
01:31:54 ◼ ► that all the obnoxious Californians would be like, Oh, it's all, it's really about California
01:32:02 ◼ ► mammoth and grizzly. Um, I do think Redwood is pretty good, but wasn't that used for like
01:32:08 ◼ ► one of the windows versions or something like that? What am I thinking of that? That was a
01:32:11 ◼ ► code name. Yeah. Yeah. Not an official name. I mean, they just did Sequoia. I feel like Redwood
01:32:19 ◼ ► Apparently skyline. I'm looking up Wikipedia. Skyline is a hilly urban neighborhood at San
01:32:24 ◼ ► Diego, California. There you go. Today I learned not as good as skyline drive. Uh, also I think
01:32:29 ◼ ► Marco had mentioned this quietly under his breath, which may or may not make the edit, but a very
01:32:32 ◼ ► good chili as it turns out. Yes. Um, nevertheless, very good chili. Isn't that the one that's like
01:32:38 ◼ ► chili on spaghetti? Uh, yeah. Or maybe vice versa, but yeah. I've actually never been to a
01:32:42 ◼ ► skyline chili, but I grew up like I grew up in Columbus, Ohio. I think they're based in
01:32:49 ◼ ► all over the place, but I never actually went into one. Yeah. I've had it, uh, some very
01:32:53 ◼ ► dear family friends. Uh, the wife in the family is from Ohio and occasionally we'll make skyline
01:32:59 ◼ ► chili and it is delicious. Uh, anyways, uh, I, I don't know. I think there's a lot of decent
01:33:04 ◼ ► options on here. I do agree with you, John, that the California names are fun. They are not
01:33:09 ◼ ► as fun as the big cats, but there's only been so many big cats you can choose from. Uh, and
01:33:14 ◼ ► I do like that. They have some sort of thing other than just a numeric version number, even
01:33:20 ◼ ► though, as we've proven, I think it was like a year ago now, maybe two years ago that Marco
01:33:24 ◼ ► and I have no freaking clue what came when or anything like that, but still I do like them.
01:33:30 ◼ ► Uh, let me start with some negative. I mean, I think we've maybe already covered this, but
01:33:35 ◼ ► is there anything else that Marco, let's start with you that you're not looking forward to?
01:33:39 ◼ ► What are you, what are you dreading about next week? So in general, Apple WBDCs are a combination
01:33:47 ◼ ► of exciting potential and homework and, and, and the, the balance of that shifts year to year.
01:33:58 ◼ ► You know, what I, what I didn't like last year was that liquid glass redesigns brought a ton of
01:34:04 ◼ ► homework and I wasn't super fond of much else besides the transcript API, which admittedly,
01:34:11 ◼ ► that was a really big deal for me, but like the rest of iOS 26 mostly just brought work that
01:34:17 ◼ ► developers had to do because redesigns do that this year. It's more likely to be a better balance of
01:34:24 ◼ ► that. Um, cause it's just, it's not a redesign here. And so what I'm hoping for this year is
01:34:31 ◼ ► hopefully some, some design calmness in the sense that like they are not going to hopefully redesign
01:34:39 ◼ ► things to such a degree that we would need to redesign our apps again. And also maturation and
01:34:47 ◼ ► expansion of a lot of the on-device model stuff. I'm, I was very happy to get those APIs last year,
01:34:53 ◼ ► but they, but they aren't really that useful yet because of just inherent limits in the on-device
01:34:58 ◼ ► models and everything. And also we were also busy dealing with liquid glass for the first half of
01:35:03 ◼ ► the year that we couldn't really build against the on-device models that much because we were just
01:35:09 ◼ ► underwater doing liquid glass stuff. So what I, what I hope to see this year is again, like a better
01:35:16 ◼ ► balance of new capabilities and new stuff we can do versus like keeping up and treading water that we
01:35:24 ◼ ► have to do to keep up with the system. Um, also adopting and maintaining a liquid glass UI is especially
01:35:33 ◼ ► cumbersome because things are so different from 18 and stuff and whatever came before. It's hard to
01:35:40 ◼ ► maintain the code basis for both. It's hard to make your app adopt liquid glass, especially adopt it
01:35:46 ◼ ► well, and not just to a surface level, but also maintain compatibility with iOS 18. What I want
01:35:53 ◼ ► this year is for things to move forward enough that we can drop compatibility for iOS 18 and our apps for
01:35:59 ◼ ► the most part. And that requires a lot of just stability, uh, reputation improvements for the OS's
01:36:07 ◼ ► tweaking them in such a way that a lot of the haters who are holding on to 18 and Sequoia can comfortably
01:36:13 ◼ ► move to them and will happily install them. Pushing that base forward, I think is the biggest thing they
01:36:18 ◼ ► can do for us. So what I am dreading to answer your question is if they don't do that, if, if what they
01:36:25 ◼ ► ship is just another like, you know, butterfly keyboard gasket on top of liquid glass, like, oh, we fixed it and
01:36:32 ◼ ► it's not really fixed. And it's just like some token tweaks and it's not anything actually meaningfully
01:36:39 ◼ ► better. That, that would be, I think the failure mode here. I don't know how likely I am to get what I want
01:36:45 ◼ ► design wise, but I think I probably will get what I want. Technically, I do expect the foundation models
01:36:50 ◼ ► frameworks to be a little bit better, a little bit tweaked, a little bit improved. And then the
01:36:56 ◼ ► question is this entire world of app intense that we are, that we've been promised since the 24 or
01:37:02 ◼ ► 2024, you know, vaporware demo, the idea of like your, your apps that can vend things using a new app
01:37:09 ◼ ► intense system to, you know, to the OS and have Siri tie them all together. That is a giant question
01:37:17 ◼ ► mark. Like, are we going to actually see that? Is it going to actually work? Is it going to be good?
01:37:23 ◼ ► And what will our apps be able to vend and how that system work? Is it going to be like the system
01:37:29 ◼ ► spotlight database, which it's built upon, which does not work very well? Um, I, I hope not, or I hope
01:37:38 ◼ ► they have made spotlight work better somehow, even though they never have achieved that. See also Siri,
01:37:44 ◼ ► like there's a lot of these things are kind of like built on, on shaky foundations or, or likely to be
01:37:49 ◼ ► built on shaky foundations that I am a little bit worried about, but ultimately I hope that they give
01:37:57 ◼ ► us a good amount of new capabilities to use without it being full of a bunch of grunt homework on shaky
01:38:05 ◼ ► crap that doesn't work. Cause that's what we had last summer and it sucked and it was really hard for us
01:38:10 ◼ ► to develop good features and move our software forward. So this year, what I'm hoping for is
01:38:15 ◼ ► the opposite. Give us decent stuff that works well that we can use to make better apps.
01:38:19 ◼ ► John. Yeah. I think, uh, the thing I'm dreading most is, uh, like kind of like Marco said to repeat
01:38:25 ◼ ► of, uh, last year, like in my short five or six year career as a Mac app developer, uh, this year
01:38:33 ◼ ► dealing with Mac OS 26 has been by far the, the worst stuff that I've had to deal with. I just spent so
01:38:40 ◼ ► much time, uh, fighting with like small display issues with basic interface elements that I didn't
01:38:49 ◼ ► control. Um, like I, for example, I use, uh, on Mac OS, there's like store controls where you can just
01:38:55 ◼ ► say like, Oh, so you have a bunch of subscriptions in your app or a bunch of in-app purchases.
01:38:59 ◼ ► We have a view for you that shows them the Apple way. And I was like, I'm definitely using that
01:39:03 ◼ ► because I'll get past app review. I'm like, look, I don't even control this view. It's Apple's view.
01:39:07 ◼ ► I just say, put store view here. And it just reads all my metadata about my things and blah, blah. And
01:39:12 ◼ ► then I had to worry about, Oh, your button has the wrong text or you didn't put the price in the right
01:39:15 ◼ ► place. I'd be like, look, I'm not even making this UI. It's the Apple UI. And I thought that was so
01:39:20 ◼ ► smart when I rolled out my app with an app purchase and Mac OS 15. And then 26 came and broke that
01:39:26 ◼ ► window over and over and over again by making it clip things or show embarrassing scroll bars or
01:39:32 ◼ ► make the buttons really tall or make it so you can read all the text. And you know, this is another
01:39:38 ◼ ► example of not my fault, but definitely my problem. I just didn't want to ship an app that looked
01:39:42 ◼ ► embarrassing. Even it was like, well, it's usable, but like, why is there a scroll bar with like two
01:39:46 ◼ ► pixels worth of travel in this window that you can't resize? I'm like, well, I don't know why this
01:39:51 ◼ ► scroll bar is there. It shouldn't be there. It's a bug in Apple's thing. And so I had to do
01:39:55 ◼ ► just the most Herculean stuff to, that's why I had all those things of like 26.0. This is what I need
01:40:00 ◼ ► to do to make it work. 26.1. Oh, they changed it, but now I need to do something else to make it work.
01:40:04 ◼ ► 26.2. Now I need to do this. I even, as I mentioned on a past episode, have branches in there for OS
01:40:10 ◼ ► version, but also on Intel versus arm. Why should Swift UI view from Apple be different on Intel
01:40:15 ◼ ► versus arm? I just experimentally, I have determined on Mac OS 26 point, whatever on Intel looks like
01:40:21 ◼ ► this on a Mac OS 26 point ever on arm looks like this. Luckily I have multiple machines to test with,
01:40:26 ◼ ► but it's just, that was such a waste of my time because was that adding features that helped the
01:40:31 ◼ ► user at all? No. Could I, I could have ignored it, but then when people would go to the purchase screen
01:40:36 ◼ ► on my app, they would see something that looks like someone doesn't care about their apps. Like
01:40:39 ◼ ► why does this look janky? Why is this button, the text in this button truncated? Why is there a
01:40:43 ◼ ► scroll bar that scrolls two pixels? I feel like that's an impression I didn't want to make in my apps.
01:40:48 ◼ ► So I spent so much time fighting with the new look of liquid glass and Mac OS 26 for basic controls
01:40:57 ◼ ► that really have nothing to do with the functionality of my app. I also fought with it elsewhere. My setting
01:41:00 ◼ ► screen, which is, does have to do with the functionality of my app had similar problems. And I basically did
01:41:04 ◼ ► six months worth of bugs and bug reports on that by the end, they pretty much got them all fixed. I
01:41:09 ◼ ► think I have, you know, the, the case where you're using whatever we're on now, 26.5. I think it has
01:41:16 ◼ ► maybe one or two little hacks in it, but kind of like Marco was saying all that code to make it look right
01:41:22 ◼ ► on 26.0.1.2.3.4. That's all still in the code and has to be, because what if someone is using my app
01:41:29 ◼ ► 26.0? I don't want my app to look bad. I can't clean that code up until I drop support for 26,
01:41:35 ◼ ► which is not going to happen for a long time. So yeah, that's what I'm dreading. A repeat of that.
01:41:41 ◼ ► And I don't, honestly, I don't think that will happen again. It shouldn't happen. 27 should
01:41:45 ◼ ► basically be the same as 26, but with some minor tweaks that don't affect anything. And plus a bunch
01:41:48 ◼ ► of bug fixes. So I'm not expecting it, but dreading in terms of like, I have, I have PTSD from,
01:41:54 ◼ ► from liquid glass on the Mac. I don't want to have to go through that again. Um, and then,
01:42:00 ◼ ► well, you should go to your thing, Casey. What are you, what are you dreading? If anything?
01:42:04 ◼ ► Uh, you know, I don't feel like I'm dreading that much. I feel like, as I'd said earlier,
01:42:10 ◼ ► I am dreading that if they really get, you know, they get obsessed with AI stuff, like, you know,
01:42:17 ◼ ► oh, it's AI, this AI, that AI, this AI, that, like, I do not want to see that. I'm, I'm over it. I don't want it.
01:42:24 ◼ ► Yes. I think either way, it could be the case. Um, what I'm, I'm also dreading that, and the Apple
01:42:31 ◼ ► has gotten better in the last few years, but still has a long way to go. I'm dreading looking at the
01:42:36 ◼ ► documentation for all of the new stuff because you know, it is likely to be missing or trash.
01:42:43 ◼ ► They have gotten better. They still got a long way to go. So I'm dreading looking to that,
01:42:48 ◼ ► looking, looking at that. Um, what I'm looking forward to though is, uh, first of all, we haven't
01:42:53 ◼ ► really had a chance to, um, to think about what the presentations are going to be. But when I was
01:43:00 ◼ ► listening to upgrade a few weeks back now, something that Jason or Mike said occurred to made me think
01:43:05 ◼ ► that the likelihood that they do some completely corny and cheesy and cringe, uh, changing of the
01:43:14 ◼ ► guards pre video for this, you know, so like, you know, handing off from Tim to John, I think it's
01:43:21 ◼ ► going to happen. And I'm actually kind of excited for it, if I'm honest, because I think it could be
01:43:26 ◼ ► really fun. I thought you were going to say it wasn't likely to happen and you were glad it wasn't
01:43:29 ◼ ► going to happen, but no, you went the other way. You think it's going to happen and you're excited
01:43:33 ◼ ► for it. I think it could be kind of cute. I really do. I might be the only one. I don't think
01:43:37 ◼ ► they're going to do it and I'm not looking forward to it, but I don't, you know, it's fine. I don't,
01:43:40 ◼ ► I don't care about that stuff. Uh, but no, I mean, in, I think in terms of things we're excited
01:43:45 ◼ ► for, which I think we've all kind of bounced off that as well, you know, let's, let's go from not
01:43:49 ◼ ► so happy to happy. I would love to see some advancements in Swift UI. Uh, there's no like
01:43:54 ◼ ► particular bug bears off that come to the front of my mind is specific things. I really want them to
01:43:59 ◼ ► change a better search support would always be great because I've had to do custom search related
01:44:04 ◼ ► stuff in call sheet for its entire life for various and sundry reasons to have some better first party
01:44:09 ◼ ► support for doing things more flexibly would be great. I think a lot of Swift UI, you could just
01:44:14 ◼ ► say, I would like to do blank in a more flexible way or allow, you know, be allowed to do whatever,
01:44:20 ◼ ► but have more flexibility with it. Um, I think that's true of most of Swift UI. I actually, and again,
01:44:26 ◼ ► I know a lot of the older, like the, the spiritually older folks online are very anti Swift UI right now.
01:44:32 ◼ ► on like Mastodon or whatever. I actually really like Swift UI. I think that if call sheet were to
01:44:38 ◼ ► be written in UI kit, that it would look one half as good, or I'd still be working on version one.
01:44:44 ◼ ► And that's perhaps an indictment of my own skill. And maybe I'm okay with that, but I really,
01:44:51 ◼ ► really like Swift UI, but it also really, really has problems. And so I am not calling for a whole cloth,
01:44:56 ◼ ► like, let's go a different direction with Swift UI. And I've seen some of some calls for that on
01:45:01 ◼ ► Mastodon. Um, I, I, I would really like to see, and I'm excited for seeing what improvements come to
01:45:08 ◼ ► Swift UI on basically any of the platforms, even if it's one that I don't really use myself. Like if I,
01:45:18 ◼ ► eventually help me when I'm using John's apps or other apps that are macOS apps that are based on
01:45:22 ◼ ► Swift UI. So I'm excited to see what they do with Swift UI this year. That's likely to be more of a
01:45:27 ◼ ► state of the state of the union thing, um, than a keynote thing, but I'm still looking forward to it.
01:45:32 ◼ ► Well, let me, let me talk about what I'm excited for, because it connects to what you were saying
01:45:36 ◼ ► about Swift UI. This is phrases like, what are you excited for? I'm not actually excited for this,
01:45:40 ◼ ► because I don't think it's going to come, but if it did come, boy, would I be excited about it?
01:45:43 ◼ ► And it's exactly what you got at. There's functionality that's still missing from Swift UI on the Mac.
01:45:48 ◼ ► There's been a couple of, uh, complaining posts about it recently, but it just really just,
01:45:52 ◼ ► again, PTSD reading that person's description of all the different drag and drop systems and how
01:45:56 ◼ ► none of them are fully functional. I lived it frigging lived it with switch glass from, from like day one
01:46:02 ◼ ► of Swift UI when I should not have been using it on the Mac, having to roll this all my own. And here
01:46:06 ◼ ► we are years later. It, you still cannot implement basic drag and drop with all the features you would
01:46:11 ◼ ► want on the Mac. And it's, it boggles the mind there on like the third or fourth try at doing drag
01:46:16 ◼ ► and drop just today. I was messing with dot file importer, which I don't know if there's an
01:46:20 ◼ ► equivalent of that in, uh, in iOS, maybe not, but basically open save dialogues. How do you do an
01:46:24 ◼ ► open save dialogue box in a Mac OS Swift UI app? They have features for it. Uh, they have modifiers
01:46:30 ◼ ► and stuff for it, but they're fairly limited. There's a bunch of stuff that you can't do in them
01:46:34 ◼ ► that you can do with the app kit ones. And also buggy, because if you have like, Oh, I'm going to do
01:46:39 ◼ ► a file importer on this view, but there's a file importer also on this other view. It's like, Oh,
01:46:43 ◼ ► now they fight with each other for reasons you don't understand. No, I don't understand. I don't
01:46:46 ◼ ► like you end up making like an invisible clear one pixel background view to attach your file imported
01:46:51 ◼ ► for, because that's the, that was what makes it work. Like stuff like that should not happen this
01:46:56 ◼ ► far into Swift UI. So I would be super excited if they came out with Swift UI advances that say, Hey,
01:47:01 ◼ ► missing functionality. It's here. Now things that didn't work and were buggy, they're fixed,
01:47:05 ◼ ► but not expecting that. Yeah. But what I am excited for, which I know is coming. And I know
01:47:10 ◼ ► this every year is because, uh, it's developed in the open Swift, the advances in Swift that are
01:47:15 ◼ ► happening in Swift evolution. You can look, there's no surprises. It's been happening all year. It happens
01:47:20 ◼ ► in the open. We know every single thing that's going to come or pretty much every single thing
01:47:23 ◼ ► that's going to come in Swift. And I can tell you, having watched a year of advances, there's a bunch
01:47:27 ◼ ► of really good stuff in particular, uh, the, you know, whole like, um, uh, could not type check this
01:47:33 ◼ ► expression in a reasonable time. Sometimes that's not what it means, but for the times when it really
01:47:40 ◼ ► does mean that it couldn't type check that expression in reasonable time, that's going to get way faster
01:47:44 ◼ ► in the new version of Swift. And that is just a quality of life improvement for everybody who's
01:47:48 ◼ ► using Swift and all the other nice features there at it. Like I'm always excited about that. And it's
01:47:53 ◼ ► kind of anticlimactic because if you follow Swift evolution, you'd know all the features, but it's
01:47:56 ◼ ► also exciting because like, I've been seeing people discuss these features over the course of the year
01:48:00 ◼ ► and argue about them and seeing whether they get adopted or where they have to go back to be
01:48:04 ◼ ► modified and come back in. And then WWC is like, they're, they're coming out. It's like, here are
01:48:08 ◼ ► the ones that graduated, you know, here are the ones that graduated to actually be features of Swift 6.4
01:48:13 ◼ ► or whatever version we're on now. Um, and I can tell you the features are good. And I, I'm also excited
01:48:18 ◼ ► for an Xcode built on top of this version of Swift that performs better because of these improvements.
01:48:24 ◼ ► And I suppose also a new version of Xcode that has better LM integration and stuff like that. But
01:48:28 ◼ ► I am excited about that. And it's easy to get excited about that because you know, it's coming
01:48:32 ◼ ► like it's, it's one of the few things that Apple does in the open where you don't have to guess, uh,
01:48:37 ◼ ► what's going to arrive. Um, the other thing I'm excited about, I think I said this when we talked
01:48:41 ◼ ► about this at the beginning of the year, I am actually excited to see the features that didn't
01:48:46 ◼ ► ship in 2024 actually arrive in a usable form because I think they're good ideas. And I think they will be
01:48:51 ◼ ► useful to me as a user of my phone. If they work like, like Marco said, the way we know they can,
01:48:57 ◼ ► we know it's possible. We see the technology working in these very limited scopes. I'm not
01:49:02 ◼ ► asking for the world. I'm just like Marco said, I'm just asking for Siri to act like Apple has been
01:49:07 ◼ ► advertising. And it acts like for the past decade that I'm actually really excited about. I know it's
01:49:12 ◼ ► boring and it's not like, well, does that mean Apple is okay and they're competitive and I'm setting
01:49:17 ◼ ► all that aside. I'm a person with a phone and I want to be able to do those things with my phone
01:49:21 ◼ ► more reliably. And every other device in my life that has been hooked up to any kind of LM powered
01:49:26 ◼ ► engine has gotten better for me in that regard. And that it understands what the heck I'm saying
01:49:31 ◼ ► and responds in a reasonable way. I'm so excited for my phone to get there. I don't think I'm going
01:49:36 ◼ ► to run a beta of iOS because I'm not that excited about it, but I'm excited to just get over that hump.
01:49:42 ◼ ► And it seems like this is going to be the year. Marco, anything that you are particularly excited
01:49:48 ◼ ► for? I've kind of woven it through my commentary the rest of the episode. But yeah, just in general,
01:49:53 ◼ ► what I want to see is, you know, again, like what, what makes for a good WBDC is they show off features
01:50:02 ◼ ► that a will ship be work well, or at least work and, and see that I can use to make a better app.
01:50:13 ◼ ► That's like, you know, cause there's, there's the, the consumer part of the WBDC announcements of like,
01:50:19 ◼ ► here's what all of our new us's are going to do. And that's great. But it is like technically still
01:50:24 ◼ ► developer conference and I am technically still developer. And what I would like most of all
01:50:30 ◼ ► is, yeah, yeah, Apple, you do, you do good stuff, but we know your stuff is going to like
01:50:35 ◼ ► be, be a little bit half-assed. Let's be honest. Like, you know, because that's, that's what they
01:50:39 ◼ ► do. As we were saying earlier, like they put out some stuff that kind of works and walk away
01:50:44 ◼ ► whistling and call it a day. Like, but where their platforms really shine, despite them not acting
01:50:49 ◼ ► this way is with third-party apps and what we do for them and the better tools they can give us,
01:50:56 ◼ ► the better we can make our apps. So that's what I'm always most hoping for every year is give us tools
01:51:05 ◼ ► so that we can make better apps. That's the most empowering. That's what has the most impact. And
01:51:10 ◼ ► that's what ultimately pushes their products forward. Yeah. Yeah. I agree. Uh, John, you put in here,
01:51:17 ◼ ► what will we miss the most? I'm not sure where you were going with that. Um, but I have a couple
01:51:21 ◼ ► of theories. Uh, number one, uh, I will miss seeing the two of you. Uh, obviously we, like I said earlier,
01:51:28 ◼ ► we didn't really get the nod this year or didn't at all get the nod this year. We never really
01:51:32 ◼ ► understand why we do or don't get the nod, but we didn't. Uh, so we're not going to be seeing each
01:51:36 ◼ ► other, unfortunately. And that makes me sad. I will miss that the most. I'm guessing John, you will miss
01:51:41 ◼ ► being able to use your piece of crap computer with the newest operating system the most.
01:51:45 ◼ ► No, what I'm going to miss the most of WWDC is the formerly planned announcement of the new Mac
01:51:53 ◼ ► studios, the computer of supposedly going to buy because before the whole AI is using all the RAM
01:51:59 ◼ ► and everything in the world thing, Mac studios with presumably M5 family of chips, we're going to be
01:52:05 ◼ ► announced to WWDC. And now they totally aren't for reasons that are understandable and technically are
01:52:11 ◼ ► not really Apple's fault, but really suck for me personally. So what will I miss the most? The Mac
01:52:17 ◼ ► studio. Sad me. And obviously, you know, I, you know, missed the Mac pro a little bit, but it was kind of a
01:52:22 ◼ ► mercy killing, but like that was, that was my prize. It's like, okay, well the whole smack pro saga is over.
01:52:27 ◼ ► Got my shirt with the dates and the little tombstone. It's like, it's sad, blah, blah, blah. But guess what? This is the year that I'm going to buy a new computer and they're going to roll it out to WWDC. And no, they're not. I mean, they can surprise me. That would be super amazing.
01:52:38 ◼ ► They go like an M6 Mac studio and they're like, somehow we got RAM chips. I'll be ecstatic, but I just don't see that happening. So yeah, that's what I'll miss the most. My Mac studio and also you too. But yeah, I won't, I won't miss a six hour plane flight.
01:52:52 ◼ ► That is true. I will not miss that. Uh, but I love that we rank Marco and I rank below the Mac studio, the computer that you didn't even really want in the first place. Really, really feeling great over here.
01:53:03 ◼ ► I talk to you too every week, but you know, where's my Mac studio? He really wanted better podcast co-hosts, but he stuck with us.
01:53:08 ◼ ► Exactly. Where's the Mac pro podcast? So you're going to be riddled with holes. Oh my gosh. I don't think we should take this any further. Marco, anything you'd like to add or are you good? I am good. All right. But then I think, uh, that's pretty much it. Is there any, uh, stagecraft or anything you want to talk about or are we good?
01:53:24 ◼ ► Stagecraft? I mean like, uh, the, the things you were talking about, like what kind of weird skits are they going to have and stuff? Um, I guess the, I guess, yeah, that is one other topic.
01:53:36 ◼ ► I think we're going to see a lot of both of them. I think Tim is going to open and I think he's going to hand it off to Ternus all the time.
01:53:45 ◼ ► And you think Ternus is going to be talking about things that are not hardware related?
01:53:48 ◼ ► Um, that's a good question. Yeah. Cause like normally Federighi would take a pretty big role in this.
01:53:53 ◼ ► I obviously, I think, I think Federighi will still be in this too, you know, prominently in this, but maybe like the kind of MC role that used to be just Tim.
01:54:08 ◼ ► Yeah, we'll say that. It'll be interesting. I mean, it's not like it's a mystery. Like we know the transition is happening. We know the time we know everything about it. And honestly, how they divide up responsibilities is not even that important because who cares? It'll be fine either way.
01:54:21 ◼ ► Um, but it will be, I mean, it may be our first opportunity to see Ternus talking about something that's not hardware. I'm not sure that will happen, but if it did, it would be our first look at like CEO Ternus. Like you're no longer confined to your world where you just talk about whatever the hardware product is. Now you can, you can talk about whatever you want. You can talk about the new Apple TV show Ternus. You can do anything. You're the CEO or soon. Anyway.
01:54:43 ◼ ► Yeah. I'm, I'm, I'm really actually surprisingly excited to see how they spin this. Well, the spin implies that it's bad, but you know what I mean? Like how they handle this transition. And I suspect it's going to be mostly business as usual and with perhaps a bit more Ternus than we had seen in the past, but not, I don't, I don't think it's going to be like Tim says hi and then turns the entire thing over to Ternus and then says goodbye. I mean, it could be, it's been similar to that in the past, but I don't think that's, what's going to happen, but we'll see.
01:55:13 ◼ ► Do you think there's going to be a Tim goodbye? Cause this is like his last basically Apple event before he's not a CEO anymore. Do you think he'll have any kind of like little nod to that or he'll just like do it by the book and be out?
01:55:23 ◼ ► I think there may be a nod to it, but I think it'll be much, it won't be much more than that. You know, they'll, I think at the least it'll be a kind of a wink and a nod sort of thing. Not literally, but you know what I mean? Uh, and at most it'll be something like, you know, thank you for the time that, you know, I've spent with you and blah, blah, blah, especially actually. And I could very much see him couching it as, and to the, you know, staff at Apple, to the employees at Apple, thank you so much for our, you know, 15 years or 10 years, whatever it's been together. Um, it's meant the world to me, blah, blah, blah.
01:55:51 ◼ ► I could absolutely see him doing that. Yeah. Well, so they'll be watching for that. Um, I don't know. I, I, I would be surprised if he confirmed that this was his last event. That doesn't, that's not really his style. It's not really Apple's style. I, I would be very surprised by that.
01:56:07 ◼ ► Well, we'll see what happens. I mean, he could just say something nice and not mention anything about it being his last event. I'm just like, huh, why did he say that nice thing about employees? And thank you. Um, the, the one way you, where we could see a ton of Ternus quote unquote legitimately or normally is if all that hardware we described,
01:56:20 ◼ ► where you described the home pop of the screen, the Apple TV and the new home pod mini, that that all comes out. Yeah. I've turned us do all that. Cause he would have done all that anyway. Like he's the hardware guy.
01:56:28 ◼ ► You know, he would have been the, the top level MC for that handing off to individual ones. But if that stuff doesn't arrive, um, I don't know where you would work in Ternus from a hardware perspective.
01:56:38 ◼ ► So I guess we'll be looking at that, but yeah. And the other thing to look for, I guess is, is there any change whatsoever in Ternus's demeanor? I don't think there'll never be a change in Tim Cook's demeanor. He'll, he's going to be the same forever, but will Ternus like, will we see anything different from Ternus? I don't think we will because he's, Tim Cook is still the CEO and he's still kind of in the mode of like, I don't quite have this job yet.
01:57:00 ◼ ► Just keep, keep on keeping on. But, uh, I'm always watching for that. I want to see him spread his wings and come out from the shadow of Tim. And maybe that won't happen this June, but I hope it'll happen eventually.
01:57:09 ◼ ► All right. Thank you so much to our sponsors this week. Factor and delete me. And thanks to our members who support us directly. You can join us at atp.fm slash join.
01:57:19 ◼ ► One of the many perks of membership is ATP overtime, our weekly bonus topic. This week in overtime, we're going to be talking about the newly announced NVIDIA RTX spark, which could be a challenge to Apple Silicon. We'll talk about that in overtime this week. You can join or listen at atp.fm slash join. Thank you everybody for listening. And we'll talk to you next week.
01:58:10 ◼ ► You can follow them at C-A-S-E-Y-L-I-S-S, so that's Casey Liss, M-A-R-C-O-A-R-M-N-T, Marco Arment, S-I-R-A-C-U-S-A, Syracuse.
01:58:58 ◼ ► But then I'll get this burr up my bottom, like, oh, man, it would be really cool if I could do blank.
01:59:08 ◼ ► And I feel like, Marco, you definitely have talked in the past about some of these, I don't know if manic is really the word I'm looking for,
01:59:13 ◼ ► but these, like, hyper-intense moments where you're just absolutely fixated on something.
01:59:25 ◼ ► But I think the difference between Marco and I is the way you describe yourself anyway is that it's very fits and very, you know, very big fits and very big spurts.
01:59:36 ◼ ► And then I'll go through these moments that it's like, oh, my God, I cannot peel myself away from the computer.
01:59:42 ◼ ► The most recent time that this happened was, and this is going to be something that we could let ourselves get sidetracked about.
01:59:58 ◼ ► At least for my own use, I've started to lean into Jellyfin, which is a purely open-source equivalent.
02:00:04 ◼ ► I do think it is worth discussing this another time, but that's not terribly pertinent to the conversation except to say that I had added support in CallSheet for getting information from Jellyfin as to what's currently playing.
02:00:18 ◼ ► And so when CallSheet, not long after CallSheet launched, I forget exactly when I shipped it, you could, it would sniff out if there was a channels server running in the local network, or really actually not even a server, excuse me, but a client running in the local network, or if a Plex client was running in the local network.
02:00:38 ◼ ► And it would do its best to interrogate those clients and figure out what are they playing, and do the best it can to put that information by default on the very top of the very first screen you see when you open the app.
02:00:53 ◼ ► With channels, it uses Bonjour, which is the zero-config stuff that's baked into all of Apple's devices.
02:01:03 ◼ ► It's pretty consistent, and I really like the way that John over at Channels has handled that.
02:01:11 ◼ ► Plex, however, what they have is kind of spiritually similar to Bonjour, but it was written about 950 years ago, and it shows.
02:01:23 ◼ ► And so apparently, I just recently found out that the internal name for this, or allegedly the internal name for this, is G'daymate, or GDM, which I find hilarious.
02:01:32 ◼ ► But what you do, and I haven't looked at this piece of code in a little while, so I might get the detail slightly wrong.
02:01:36 ◼ ► But what you do is, you have, or CallSheet will broadcast a multicast message that says, hey, are there any Plex clients out there?
02:01:48 ◼ ► And if a Plex client hears that message, it will reply and say, yes, I am a Plex client.
02:01:57 ◼ ► And then CallSheet will then go and connect to that Plex client directly and say, hey, what are you playing right now?
02:02:03 ◼ ► When I first launched this feature, I don't want to say like two-ish years ago, it worked okay.
02:02:13 ◼ ► If you're the kind of dork that has like a VLAN in your home network, and let me tell you the kind of people, the kind of dorks who run Plex are the kind of dorks who would have a VLAN.
02:02:41 ◼ ► And then as Plex is in poopified over the last year or two, again, we'll talk about this another time, as Plex is in poopified and had dramatically rewritten their client apps, a lot of these features got even more rickety than they already were, which is saying something because they were pretty freaking rickety.
02:02:59 ◼ ► The problem I had, though, is that for whatever reason, for right or wrong, I was staunchly, devoutly against doing any sort of thing where you have to log in in order to get information from these playback clients.
02:03:28 ◼ ► So then a few months ago, I started to really try and trial Jellyfin and really try to figure out, okay, can I make this work in my life?
02:03:38 ◼ ► And I have decided that at least as I sit here today, I am pretty much all in on Jellyfin.
02:03:49 ◼ ► But for me personally, for me, myself, and I, I'm pretty much exclusively on Jellyfin now.
02:03:56 ◼ ► There, I will say that the Jellyfin client apps are all pretty much terrible at this point.
02:04:21 ◼ ► But anyway, so I'm all in on Jellyfin, and I wanted my playback information from Jellyfin to be showing up in my app, in CallSheet.
02:04:54 ◼ ► But you can do, and I forget what Jellyfin calls it, but you can basically do one of those things where you ask the server for a PIN number,
02:05:01 ◼ ► and then the user goes to the server and enters that PIN number to complete the handshake and say, yes, this thing is blessed.
02:05:18 ◼ ► And so now, when you start up CallSheet, it is almost freaking instant that you can see what you're playing in Jellyfin.
02:05:26 ◼ ► What's also great about this is that because you're not doing some, like, multicast, you know, peer-to-peer sort of scenario,
02:05:37 ◼ ► So the peer-to-peer thing for both channels and for Plex, that only worked if you were on the same network because it was all multicast stuff.
02:05:47 ◼ ► Well, I have my Jellyfin server exposed using Tailscale and specifically a Tailscale service.
02:05:55 ◼ ► But basically what that means is in the same way I was talking about Funnel at the top of the show that lets you expose something to the entire internet that's on your Tailnet,
02:06:20 ◼ ► Well, what's great about all this is when you enter in, you know, jelly.you know, whatever your Tailnet's name is, .ts.net,
02:06:28 ◼ ► well, then you can see that information even when you're watching something remotely, which is really cool because it'll reach through Tailscale
02:06:42 ◼ ► By the time call sheet is spun up entirely, typically what you're watching Jellyfin is right there, front and center, right at the top of the screen.
02:06:48 ◼ ► But all the Plex people, of which I sort of kind of, but I'm mostly not one anymore, all of them are saying, hey, with love, your Plex implementation is a pile of crap.
02:07:08 ◼ ► Yesterday I got thinking, if Jellyfin has this sort of code thing that I can do, I could probably do something like that with Plex, right?
02:07:19 ◼ ► And now I'm in a little bit of a pickle because what I figured out, it's a good pickle, but a pickle nevertheless, what I figured out, and I've mostly implemented like the plain Jane easy approach, the no frills version is already implemented.
02:07:38 ◼ ► And I can ask, you know, have you tried to log into Plex, and what it does is it goes and asks the Plex central servers, the central Plex servers, hey, this user would like to log in.
02:08:09 ◼ ► And so you go to a special URL, and the user just needs to enter, you know, their login credentials with Plex, you know, in the spirit of OAuth.
02:08:26 ◼ ► The catch, though, is that this only works with asterisks and daggers and double daggers.
02:08:41 ◼ ► And the reason that is is because Plex, while it has a central, like, authorization and authentication mechanism, it doesn't really have any sort of central what is this user playing anywhere sort of server or situation.
02:08:56 ◼ ► And one of the great things about Plex is that, you know, I can share my Plex server with other people without needing to punch more than a single hole in my firewall, without needing to do the tail scale dance, without needing to do anything else.
02:09:09 ◼ ► So if John, for example, has shared his Plex server with me, which last I saw he had, and I'm streaming something from John's house to my house, this call sheet integration wouldn't work.
02:09:32 ◼ ► And I'm not going and interrogating John's server because in order to do that, I would have to interrogate all of the servers I have access to.
02:09:43 ◼ ► So, the question that I kind of have, and I'm curious what you two think is, this seems to work a billion times better for pretty much every use case, except when you're watching something from a remote server.
02:10:02 ◼ ► Or, you can use the old school, like the old school one, it's still functionally there, but it almost never works in my experience.
02:10:11 ◼ ► You can use the old school multicast thing, and you can hypothetically get whatever you're watching across any server on the entire planet.
02:10:18 ◼ ► So, I'm thinking, as I sit here now, I'm thinking I'm going to ship this new Plex integration, and leave you the option to do either or.
02:10:27 ◼ ► Although, the old version is so bad, I've been considering pulling it, because it's really very rickety.
02:10:35 ◼ ► Because, again, the summary is, I can do this new thing where the user does have to log in, but it's very quick and very easy.
02:10:50 ◼ ► Or, I can leave it as is, and just tell Plex people, sorry, you know, Plex has a really rickety system.
02:11:11 ◼ ► You just record audio and figure out what they're watching based on the audio that's in the air.
02:11:53 ◼ ► And you could even do something like, you know, take a picture every three seconds for like 10 seconds.
02:12:07 ◼ ► And then just, and send the pictures you take to some kind of moderation center in another country.
02:12:12 ◼ ► No, I was going to say like, you know, send them to like, you know, the open AI, AVIs or whatever.
02:12:29 ◼ ► Between something that has a, a limit, a more limited feature set, but works a lot better.
02:12:41 ◼ ► Because what, when you are, when you're, you know, if people are promised functionality that is slow, rickety, you know, incomplete in practice, that's going to make it a more, a more frequent negative experience for them with your product.
02:13:28 ◼ ► I plan to leave the old and rickety version there, if you prefer it, and basically have a toggle between the two.
02:13:38 ◼ ► Because so many people have written me over the, over the last couple of years and said in very, very nice ways, did this ever work, dude?
02:13:50 ◼ ► And again, the people who have said this have pretty much universally been extremely nice about this.
02:13:55 ◼ ► And, and so I feel like giving a better experience to your point, Marco, even with the caveat that it's only for local stuff, I feel like that will generally be better for almost everyone.
02:14:09 ◼ ► But I, like I said, I mean, the reason I half jokingly get my, you know, Shazam kid that can understand TV shows answer is because I watch most of my TV shows in the thing that you're not supporting at all.
02:14:19 ◼ ► And I want the experience of being able to open up call sheet and not have to search for the show I'm watching.
02:14:24 ◼ ► I just wanted to know, I would personally be willing to give call sheet access to the mic to, you know, TV show Shazam kid what I'm watching, because that would save me having to do the search.
02:14:36 ◼ ► I would personally be willing to point the camera at the screen, although that would probably be a lot less reliable than the audio.
02:14:41 ◼ ► But like, the problem, the reason I'm suggesting this, again, only half jokingly, is because it sidesteps all these other issues, because like, even if you just want to support Apple TV, Apple is not going to roll out an API where like, hey, third parties, do you want to know what someone's watching on the Apple TV on any app?
02:14:57 ◼ ► Just use this API that Apple will never do that TV makers do do that TV makers watch what you're watching and report back to their servers.
02:15:12 ◼ ► You could save me a bunch of steps if I could launch call sheet and just see the show up at the top.
02:15:17 ◼ ► And that's not going to work because I watch my shows on like the Hulu app, the Apple TV app.
02:15:40 ◼ ► Can we use the power of machine learning and advanced technology to narrow it down even to say, these are my top three guesses.
02:15:57 ◼ ► Because it's great for the five people who watch all their stuff through Jellyfin or watch all their stuff through Plex.
02:16:05 ◼ ► And so I do think most people who use your app will never know or see anything about this feature.
02:16:16 ◼ ► Speaking of being nerd sniped, because as cool as it is, you're never going to get anything close to enough coverage that, you know, the majority of users of your app are ever going to see this feature.
02:16:28 ◼ ► And on the long-term list, which it's been on the long-term list since before LLMs were really a thing, or before I was aware and exposed to them anyway.
02:16:37 ◼ ► If you look at Home Assistant, and, you know, it wouldn't be me if I didn't bring that up at some point.
02:16:43 ◼ ► If you look at Home Assistant, there is a mechanism by which it will show what Apple TVs in your house are currently playing.
02:16:55 ◼ ► Whereas the nice thing about using Jellyfin or Plex or channels is that they'll often give me an exact movie database ID number for the thing that the person is watching.
02:17:04 ◼ ► But I'd like to, at some point, set an LLM at, like, the Home Assistant code base and say, hey, there is a mechanism by which I think there might even be a Python library to do it with that Home Assistant leverages.
02:17:21 ◼ ► But suffice to say, look through this code and write me a Swift version of it so I can do this too.
02:17:36 ◼ ► And then at least Home Assistant will show you the title and, like, an image for what the person is watching.
02:17:46 ◼ ► And so I'd be curious to see if I could make heads or tails of that with the help of an LLM on my side.
02:18:02 ◼ ► I think in no small part because I am able to speak Python, but I am far, far from fluent in it.
02:18:10 ◼ ► But over time, you know, maybe I will, especially if I start digging into the, like, more agent-y stuff where I say, hey, go figure this out.
02:18:19 ◼ ► Maybe I should do that at some point and set, you know, claw it off and say, hey, build me a Swift library that does this thing.
02:18:30 ◼ ► But the downside of that, though, is that even if I can figure out what you're watching on, like, Paramount Plus or what have you, the best I could do is when you tap on it, it pre-fills out a search for Star Trek Strange New Worlds or whatever it's called.
02:18:45 ◼ ► It's just it types those words out for you rather than jumping you directly to the entry in call sheet for Star Trek Strange New Worlds.
02:19:13 ◼ ► But, again, it's much quicker to ask it questions and have it give me direct answers than having to go spelunking through Plex documentation or third-party copies of Plex documentation or what have you in order to figure it out.
02:19:24 ◼ ► But, I mean, pretty much all the code I've written for this particular feature is, I think, 100% me.