The Accidental Tech Podcast

26: Three Phones Ago


00:00:00   russia both her fans should have a sweat lodge thing with me more subdivisions [TS]

00:00:03   that'll be the best music ever it is indeed the Friday 9th and 9th of August [TS]

00:00:10   and we are recording early because one of the three of us is disappearing for a [TS]

00:00:14   week again but after this we should actually be recording on a regular [TS]

00:00:19   schedule and everyone keeps bemoaning the fact that our schedule changes a lot [TS]

00:00:22   and I don't really blame them and everything people ask why why why don't [TS]

00:00:26   you have the schedule on the on the website and the problem is 99% of the [TS]

00:00:31   time it's Wednesdays at nine eastern USA time [TS]

00:00:34   well that's not entirely true because we're only 25% 27 now and there's been a [TS]

00:00:39   lot more than a quarter of one episode that's been on schedule [TS]

00:00:43   you know what I mean I'm going to fall Wednesday night so when it's not the [TS]

00:00:47   summertime and when everyone's not going crazy vacations all the time well spent [TS]

00:00:51   went two of the three hills are going crazy vacations all the time of your [TS]

00:00:57   life is crazy vacation yet thank you thank you [TS]

00:01:01   the chatroom wants you to comment [TS]

00:01:04   thank you from Apollo Zach in the chatroom want you to comment on the beta [TS]

00:01:08   Instapaper web redesign USC this yet I'll into it earlier today I saw that it [TS]

00:01:13   existed I haven't looked at it and I know what we have we haven't had enough [TS]

00:01:18   reviews telling us that this is the market share I know really keep going [TS]

00:01:22   well you guys are helped me out right now it has nothing to do with Marcos [TS]

00:01:26   somebody else's product now this is the first time that I don't have a new after [TS]

00:01:30   announcing the show in weeks [TS]

00:01:33   riding on now by the end of something another new one no I did the big lad I [TS]

00:01:40   was working on a very solid week working on a doing a whole lot of of a little [TS]

00:01:47   stuff and you're done with the low levels while there's more I was done [TS]

00:01:52   with part of it [TS]

00:01:55   Instapaper beta yeah I knew they were moving everything to AWS and now looking [TS]

00:02:04   at what they've done they've been doing a heck of alot more than that and I'm [TS]

00:02:08   really happy to see this I mean I i this is way faster than I expected for this [TS]

00:02:11   this level of of work and so they they unveiled today a beta thats I would say [TS]

00:02:20   about it looks on the surface I haven't had that much fun to poke around with it [TS]

00:02:24   but it looks like it's probably about two thirds done and for three quarters [TS]

00:02:28   done even and it is really really good and it's it's just the web interface [TS]

00:02:35   right now they say updates for the for the absurd coming and I believe them [TS]

00:02:39   because I see this and they really delivered [TS]

00:02:41   I mean this is really good and the web interface as soon as I read my little [TS]

00:02:45   post about the web interface was always my biggest embarrassment about [TS]

00:02:49   Instapaper because I knew it was terrible it looked terrible it worked [TS]

00:02:54   pretty poorly but not only am i terrible web designer and in most cases but I [TS]

00:03:01   also was not motivated to ever improve it because the short version is all the [TS]

00:03:06   money was an iOS and I always used IOUs and so for something that made very [TS]

00:03:12   little money directly with just the web interface and and web interface I hardly [TS]

00:03:18   ever saw I just was not motivated to really ever improve it and that's you [TS]

00:03:25   know one of the problems when you have a one-person company one of the problems [TS]

00:03:31   is like if that one person isn't that interested in working on something in [TS]

00:03:35   general doesn't get done and so now it's multiple people doing what's right for [TS]

00:03:40   the product and what's great for everybody instead of just what they want [TS]

00:03:42   to work on and it's really looking good thing I think it looks good I will say I [TS]

00:03:50   can only imagine how much of a better word than a relief or perhaps a [TS]

00:03:55   vindication debt this is the first major change that I'm aware of to Instapaper [TS]

00:04:01   since you've sold it [TS]

00:04:03   and how good was that must that make you feel that you now have a data point that [TS]

00:04:08   says they're not going to ruin it and not to say that I expected better works [TS]

00:04:11   too but now you have empirical evidence that says they're not gonna ruin in fact [TS]

00:04:16   it's already getting better and that's gonna make you feel really bad pun but [TS]

00:04:20   like a million bucks you know it must make you feel really good that that this [TS]

00:04:24   is already trending up a totally because you know before it when I was in the [TS]

00:04:30   process I thought I talked with us in the show's I'm not going into too much [TS]

00:04:33   depth here but I I thought the worst that can happen really is that they [TS]

00:04:37   neglected but I'm neglecting it and I've been neglecting it for like a year or [TS]

00:04:42   two so the worst that can happen is that they just keep neglecting it so it's not [TS]

00:04:47   that bad was obviously I've been doing it for a while it's been ok and now the [TS]

00:04:52   analysis concrete evidence that they're not just letting it so like that [TS]

00:04:55   wouldn't it was the worst case scenario now you're right it has you know [TS]

00:04:58   everywhere to go now it's going to go up that doesn't make sense [TS]

00:05:02   apply the appropriate metaphor John would you like to absolutely destroy it [TS]

00:05:10   now that we've both been talking positively about it I didn't mind the [TS]

00:05:13   old web interface that much was it wasn't anything nice to look at like it [TS]

00:05:17   was just there and didn't really have much pizzazz or style but it did what it [TS]

00:05:21   was supposed to do a time and I use the web interface a surprising amount [TS]

00:05:25   because it's a lot of stuff that I would Instapaper [TS]

00:05:28   things that either I didn't want to watch on a phone or couldn't watch on [TS]

00:05:31   iPad involved flash or it was like I 1080p trailer for a movie and I want to [TS]

00:05:36   see it on my big screen and so I did spend a lot of time with the web [TS]

00:05:39   interface consists only thing that really know about the web interface [TS]

00:05:43   including problems like to lay with the hat on happily with a hat on top of it [TS]

00:05:48   or something [TS]

00:05:49   you know wtf a thing that's barely escaped but remember whose fault it is I [TS]

00:05:55   think I complain about Marco couple times but other than that was in the [TS]

00:05:57   title role i remember i problemi title but the web interface is nice it's kind [TS]

00:06:03   of it's a little bit like if you you can kind of see you know I don't know which [TS]

00:06:08   technology using those look like you know under these bootstrap for that and [TS]

00:06:13   I think I've seen an icon set before and you know but all the animations and I [TS]

00:06:17   solve it depends on the fact that the purpose of luck was kind of black and [TS]

00:06:22   white [TS]

00:06:23   you know they you know it it's easy for them to come with a new design but they [TS]

00:06:27   didn't have to do all sorts of like a lot of vision graphics and custom images [TS]

00:06:32   of wood at high resolution for you know things like it if there had been a paper [TS]

00:06:37   style wouldn't you know it more difficult here they could go with a [TS]

00:06:40   straightforward design with nice typography with black on white and it [TS]

00:06:44   only fits with the brand so I get thumbs up to the website and give a thumbs down [TS]

00:06:47   to all the instability that has gone on since he was told this thing and another [TS]

00:06:51   is because of the AWS move or whatever but I had read later or tap that are [TS]

00:06:56   held down on an ordinance different places that I do it and gotten you know [TS]

00:07:01   it I really really really long pause or a timeout or a service is not available [TS]

00:07:06   way more between the time you sold it now than the entire rest of this is [TS]

00:07:10   because they're moving into a double your ass but that made me sound like I'm [TS]

00:07:14   reading something and it's the papers down even if he's down for five minutes [TS]

00:07:17   now I gotta remember five minutes from now to come back and you know it the [TS]

00:07:20   same link so I hope they get through with that instability and we can get [TS]

00:07:24   back up to the old marco level stability which was very rarely down and only [TS]

00:07:30   occasionally slow yeah I don't I don't know why I asked him about that I've [TS]

00:07:35   only had a problem once in this time and maybe it's just like when we're hitting [TS]

00:07:39   them I don't know why I would imagine one of the differences among us that you [TS]

00:07:43   fully wake up a lot earlier than I do and so that they might put you in like a [TS]

00:07:47   different usage but by I've only had a couple of problems one problem over the [TS]

00:07:54   whole course of it but as far as I know it's no problem there probably because [TS]

00:07:58   they were moving at AWS and that's [TS]

00:08:01   I mean I'm sorry I'm really surprised how quickly they were able to to to do [TS]

00:08:06   that move and and how well to gone because like so much of what I'm running [TS]

00:08:11   servers is about knowing like the intricate details of exactly how much I [TS]

00:08:17   can get away with performance wise on in certain characteristics are uncertain [TS]

00:08:22   service run in certain software and by shifting things to AWS you dramatically [TS]

00:08:27   change the foundation of what everything is like something like that the [TS]

00:08:31   assumptions you made about characteristics like my database servers [TS]

00:08:34   were mostly SSDs as far as I know if you are still doesn't offer that do they [TS]

00:08:40   wouldn't know why I don't know either but but certainly I know that it if they [TS]

00:08:48   do offer its probably it probably isn't simple or or maybe complete but so I I [TS]

00:08:56   would make assumptions like this service going to have always had this much RAM [TS]

00:09:00   their servers going to always be 64 bit this server is going to always have [TS]

00:09:03   really fast desks and doesn't always gonna have tons of CPU cores and so I [TS]

00:09:07   i've I was I was making all these assumptions all that time and to shifted [TS]

00:09:14   to a system that works completely differently is is a heck of a thing to [TS]

00:09:19   do and I also had like I think about 11 servers when I sold it and has 11 pretty [TS]

00:09:26   high-end servers the number of AWS instances required to replace them [TS]

00:09:30   has to be more than that and so that I can imagine the scale of the work that [TS]

00:09:38   is the reason they did it was cuz they host all their stuff on it they know it [TS]

00:09:43   really really well and you know that that's a very good reason to do it but i [TS]

00:09:50   dont really shows how good they are they were able to do that kind of move so [TS]

00:09:54   with with so little downtime really for the four what that is I mean moving to [TS]

00:09:59   not only a different host would like moving all agree that only that but [TS]

00:10:02   moving into a different type of host that's that's a big job search still [TS]

00:10:08   doesn't work in the beta 2 just gives a [TS]

00:10:10   502 era something I looked up there but the search works in the old ones like [TS]

00:10:14   search is down entirely I don't know if this is accurate or not somebody on [TS]

00:10:22   Twitter said that their rewriting it in Python and I know that I know like [TS]

00:10:27   somebody had mentioned the possibility of that to me once and I said you do [TS]

00:10:31   whatever you wanna care but they might be doing that also why I haven't even [TS]

00:10:38   asked them again cuz I don't really care honestly have really ask them but that [TS]

00:10:44   might be part of this like me maybe maybe the beta is all a python engine [TS]

00:10:49   and the old site historical PHP code I don't know certainly don't have any [TS]

00:10:53   problem with that because I respect python is a language I don't know it [TS]

00:10:57   very well but I've always said that if I was going to learn another web scripting [TS]

00:11:00   language today would probably Python so good for them I don't really well it's [TS]

00:11:06   like a small application that it's not crazy to think of rewriting it feels [TS]

00:11:10   like how many screens and oh yeah and it's and it's hidden be unlike any PII [TS]

00:11:14   web interface as long as you maintain the same sort of you know hed bien [TS]

00:11:18   points in the same you know protocol between them and they're redoing the [TS]

00:11:22   native apps anyway but the point is like it's it's more of a team who knows how [TS]

00:11:27   to use these technologies well now like I know exactly how I do Instapaper an [TS]

00:11:30   hour which aren't everything and how would you know when all the different [TS]

00:11:33   services like for things you can do with it you read later gotta text parser you [TS]

00:11:36   got this is that like there's enough pieces are you can study can hold it all [TS]

00:11:39   in your head it's not like somebody said you know that this operating system in [TS]

00:11:43   Java you know not that level of of undertakings I think it's a reasonable [TS]

00:11:48   thing to do especially if that's what they have the expertise in Liberty [TS]

00:11:51   stepped up to do that [TS]

00:11:52   exactly and also the web code base the way the way I had it off the web code [TS]

00:11:58   bases really really simple and if I had often kind of a messy stakes I was kind [TS]

00:12:04   of halfway transition between two text parser there was like the old one and [TS]

00:12:07   the new one both coexisting in various different places and it was kind of a [TS]

00:12:10   mess so i i sorry to anyone over there if you're listening if you had to clean [TS]

00:12:15   that up but but but yeah I mean the web could be really is not that complicated [TS]

00:12:22   and so if they know they can write in whatever they want and it doesn't it's [TS]

00:12:27   not that big of a deal the iOS App of course is where most of the code is but [TS]

00:12:32   you can't rewrite that anything else except I guess Cameron it it's good [TS]

00:12:41   times you know it's funny hearing you guys say that oh yeah you can rewrite it [TS]

00:12:44   no problem because I keep flashing back to Swansea's article from years and [TS]

00:12:48   years ago about rewriting something and how no matter how simple you think it [TS]

00:12:54   will be it always ends up being a terrible disaster and I'm hugely [TS]

00:12:58   paraphrasing of course but it did it keeps reminding me of that and the other [TS]

00:13:04   thing I keep wondering are thinking to myself is I don't know if this was a [TS]

00:13:07   worthwhile topic or not but at what point do you choose familiarity over [TS]

00:13:13   something anything else so in other words they may be more familiar with AWS [TS]

00:13:18   and Python but no matter how you slice it they bought it works bought something [TS]

00:13:24   that was successful and functional and is is familiarity more important to [TS]

00:13:31   their team which it appears it is or is keeping what works more important and I [TS]

00:13:37   wrestle with this a lot when I write code and you can also extrapolate this [TS]

00:13:40   to be is writing code in a clear way better than writing code in a clever and [TS]

00:13:48   perhaps maybe not succinct is the best word but you know if you could take a [TS]

00:13:52   hundred and fifty line function lets say and do some really clever stuff and get [TS]

00:13:57   it down to 50 lines but it's a lot harder to understand is that really a [TS]

00:14:01   net winner not and in to me as the older I get the more I think you know [TS]

00:14:07   familiarity really is important and really is worth fighting for and I found [TS]

00:14:12   that I'm using less clever tricks in my code then I would have in the past [TS]

00:14:16   because I don't know if I'm gonna remember what it was I was thinking in a [TS]

00:14:20   month let alone a co-worker who have any idea what I was doing in a week I know [TS]

00:14:26   if you guys have anything interesting to add to that [TS]

00:14:28   but you're buying when you're buying a company or product or whatever like if [TS]

00:14:34   you have the intention to go forward with their products to make new versions [TS]

00:14:38   of the project features and everything you have to make sure that you have the [TS]

00:14:43   ability to do that so if you buy something in PHP in Objective C and you [TS]

00:14:48   have nobody who knows PHP and pictures and nobody knows I was a kid I was [TS]

00:14:51   probably not a great idea to purchase that be like you need to do want two [TS]

00:14:55   things get people those expertise or change it to something that you people [TS]

00:14:59   are dead expertise in like Marco said but the iOS app they're going to get [TS]

00:15:04   people who are familiar but I was when they probably already happened like you [TS]

00:15:07   can't change language basically maybe they can change it to shop online that [TS]

00:15:10   but in general that decision is made for them we bought an iOS app we gotta make [TS]

00:15:14   sure we have people who understand the OSAP eyes and they probably already do [TS]

00:15:17   so we're good there and on the web side they bought something that was written [TS]

00:15:20   in PHP but I guess that's small enough and simple enough it is not that big a [TS]

00:15:24   deal they could get expertise and kids being go forward to enhance the [TS]

00:15:28   application PHP but I bet they already have people who know how to do web stuff [TS]

00:15:32   done really well and you know they have to do something so that the people so [TS]

00:15:39   that they can add features an advanced application and it's probably more [TS]

00:15:42   efficient for them to rewrite the whole thing in Python because I have like an [TS]

00:15:48   army of people who know Python and they think they can be ready really quickly [TS]

00:15:51   with a problem like like market as he's got his framework for web applications [TS]

00:15:54   not like that he's got a box of tools in PHP someone comes time to do something [TS]

00:15:59   on the web it's much faster I'm just take out a tool box with the tools it [TS]

00:16:02   has worked on and put something together so they probably have to box will Python [TS]

00:16:07   things now familiar with various frameworks now their own in-house things [TS]

00:16:10   when I was like oh I know exactly how I do in September and it was this that and [TS]

00:16:13   the other thing and it's gone after they can do it [TS]

00:16:16   the journal article was kind of one of those things where he won despite all [TS]

00:16:21   the reasons why you might not wanna write something and he did pretty well [TS]

00:16:25   todd has as time goes on and and memories fade or whatever it becomes [TS]

00:16:31   like oh that's the article but he said you should never ever ever [TS]

00:16:34   which of course any sort of absolute position like you should always are I [TS]

00:16:36   turn every right it's not going to be able to argue with it and that's going [TS]

00:16:40   to be the strong man if they're going to disagree with I think he did a good job [TS]

00:16:43   of highlighting why like the value in old code but every situation is [TS]

00:16:48   different and you have to decide given your situation the parameters and [TS]

00:16:53   requirements that are put upon you and what you actually want to do going [TS]

00:16:56   forward but you know what you're going to end so I think he is an example of [TS]

00:17:00   netscape being rewritten to become Muslim everything and no one thing [TS]

00:17:06   netscape is a simple application like many web browsers those are complicated [TS]

00:17:12   right there have been no prob like they knew there was complicated but you know [TS]

00:17:15   what [TS]

00:17:16   twenty-twenty hindsight you can say look that code base that all netscape [TS]

00:17:19   codebase was not going anywhere if it was basically going to be a dead end it [TS]

00:17:23   would not exist today no matter how much work they put into it and even though [TS]

00:17:27   there was tremendous value in like look at all the stuff we get bugged and look [TS]

00:17:30   at you know all those little tricky things we did to make sure that it [TS]

00:17:33   worked with weird you know mail services there was an alkaline built into it and [TS]

00:17:37   how it works at NTP and all these nuances of talking to news servers and [TS]

00:17:41   dealing with the web as it gets in 1993 that had value but the value by now is [TS]

00:17:47   either gone or pointless because you know the web browsing engine world's [TS]

00:17:51   gone so far at the Henry written it they would be completely irrelevant now as it [TS]

00:17:55   stands there probably aren't you for another be right or something because [TS]

00:17:58   their engine you know get everything is kind of like looking like the old [TS]

00:18:02   grandfather next to WebKit and blank and all these fancy new things so you know [TS]

00:18:07   people saying now Joe you read that article but look at they hadn't driven [TS]

00:18:10   everything they'd be completely irrelevant and almost around and now [TS]

00:18:13   even though he did rewriting so you know that this time the time comes when you [TS]

00:18:18   need to cut your losses and move on but i i think they value in that article is [TS]

00:18:22   explaining why there is yr old code has good qualities that you might not see [TS]

00:18:29   when all you could see how disgusting is definitely like a very common programmer [TS]

00:18:36   immaturity that you see where you'd like a programmer is assigned to take over a [TS]

00:18:41   project where they were hired in like a new a new lead on it or [TS]

00:18:46   they're looking at someone else's code who you know was previously they're [TS]

00:18:50   almost always young performers want to rewrite it their way and that's [TS]

00:18:55   generally a pretty immature and and inefficient position to take you know [TS]

00:19:00   it's it's easier for you to to to start poking around 20 this whole thing is a [TS]

00:19:06   mess this is not going to work it's terrible this previous previous prisoner [TS]

00:19:10   this was an idiot and we gotta rewrite everything scratch and you know it in [TS]

00:19:16   the real world like the article is pretty good advice most of the time [TS]

00:19:22   obviously there's exceptions to everything the example use of netscape [TS]

00:19:27   was of course a very extreme example netscape is a and was a tremendous [TS]

00:19:33   codebase [TS]

00:19:34   absolutely tremendous doing so many things and so obviously running that was [TS]

00:19:40   it was a pretty big ordeal rewriting a pretty simple web service that doesn't [TS]

00:19:44   do a whole lot on the web service and is not that hard you know I mean I wrote I [TS]

00:19:50   remember the first version in like one night and you know built on a from their [TS]

00:19:55   part time but it was never the website was never really have the time so be [TS]

00:20:00   writing that is very very different from rewriting netscape so two quick [TS]

00:20:05   questions for you in a very qualitative and and off the cuff way would you say [TS]

00:20:11   that it it seems clear that the Instapaper website you would say is not [TS]

00:20:16   very complex and and I'm thinking mostly about text parser that strikes me as I [TS]

00:20:21   would be pretty complex but it seems to me like you're waving at office not that [TS]

00:20:25   bad is that fair to say that experts are really isn't that bad it's really not [TS]

00:20:29   that complex you you would be surprised how easy it is to do a pretty good job [TS]

00:20:34   person about to text and then with that in mind how much code smell would you [TS]

00:20:39   say the codebase had like you said you were half 8th between major rewrite and [TS]

00:20:46   that obviously induces a little bit of stench if you will but would you say [TS]

00:20:49   that generally speaking was in pretty good shape aside from that [TS]

00:20:52   the text parser was in bad shape but everything else was pretty solid as far [TS]

00:20:56   as I remember honestly I spent a little time working on the website I barely [TS]

00:21:00   remember the code but it was we can tell you one thing and one other direction [TS]

00:21:07   and I'll take this conversation briefly is there is great article I posted a [TS]

00:21:10   link in the chat room [TS]

00:21:11   few lines ago by James Hague and I'll put a link in the show nodes and it's [TS]

00:21:18   called organizational skills [TS]

00:21:19   beat algorithmic wizardry and he was first talking about like you know all [TS]

00:21:24   the crap about about brain teaser tech interviews which are terrible and he had [TS]

00:21:28   his has one line that I love when it comes to writing code number one most [TS]

00:21:33   important skill is how to keep a tangle of features from collapsing under the [TS]

00:21:36   weight of its own complexity and she said you want to say to a great extent [TS]

00:21:43   the act of coding is one of organization refactoring simplifying figure out how [TS]

00:21:47   to remove extraneous manipulations here and there and it's it's a fantastic bit [TS]

00:21:53   of wisdom there because so many times what makes me want to rewrite parts of [TS]

00:21:58   my own code or modules or even entire apps which is pretty rare but you know [TS]

00:22:03   what makes me want to rewrite stuff like that is friction optimizations [TS]

00:22:08   complexities that I have implemented forever ago and have since forgotten how [TS]

00:22:12   they work and you know it's like you're competing with like yourself from the [TS]

00:22:17   future and it's really really easy to you know you see something here that we [TS]

00:22:25   could do the school thing if he's a little bit of complexity here this [TS]

00:22:28   little weird hackear that it's not pretty but it'll work in a school thing [TS]

00:22:33   within six months from now you get to that you see that and you see oh I don't [TS]

00:22:38   think I messed up the whole thing you know [TS]

00:22:42   cases question from before about doing clever things in code or whatever like I [TS]

00:22:47   think most programmers go through that phase of where you don't understand [TS]

00:22:51   everything that you do understand everything you start to invent your own [TS]

00:22:54   clever things I try to get myself away from looking at the code at that level [TS]

00:23:01   because what I found is that the most important [TS]

00:23:04   I have to ask about the like the blocker the method or the whatever the module [TS]

00:23:10   that whatever its class time Lohan or whatever is what is this code supposed [TS]

00:23:15   to do that question should be like that phrase do some very clever flowery way [TS]

00:23:22   and put into big giant poster shoved me like the old IBM Think poster because [TS]

00:23:28   almost any time anyone is having a programming problem aside for me having [TS]

00:23:33   to teach them how to debug works which is surprising i dont no not another get [TS]

00:23:38   their jobs done is that question what like so you're in there you got this [TS]

00:23:42   clever bit the dust some clever thing and it's got some groups and some lines [TS]

00:23:46   and some variables if you know what the function at says doing like I know the [TS]

00:23:52   purpose of this function either because documented or is named well or both or [TS]

00:23:56   just know what it is because he wrote recently the job as long as it takes [TS]

00:24:00   this and put it gives you this out but you know I know what his job is I know [TS]

00:24:03   where it fits into the whole block diagram of my thing and that of course I [TS]

00:24:09   know that I always know when I was looking at the couple lines along my car [TS]

00:24:13   ever but as you work for a long time especially constantly thinking about [TS]

00:24:18   this you will find yourself in the function and someone will ask you what [TS]

00:24:22   is it like it just does that doesn't matter gets called and then I'm in here [TS]

00:24:27   and a half of the state like what matters you know it doesn't matter like [TS]

00:24:31   this just gets called when this happened then eventually you know I'm very deep [TS]

00:24:34   in the cost I just think it's called in to like this job was supposed to be [TS]

00:24:37   doing it what is the job of this function as I will usually it just takes [TS]

00:24:41   this and put it there and processing turns in that flips out on but sometimes [TS]

00:24:45   if if this thing is also on me like you can't explain to me what this function [TS]

00:24:49   does and it's like what it does is affected by global state and it's got [TS]

00:24:53   lots of conditionals and behave this way and it's deeply intertwined with other [TS]

00:24:58   things and it's it's all mixed in with the GUI and it depends on the you know [TS]

00:25:01   the state of the database or orientation and devices and you know you like this [TS]

00:25:06   function as well that you lost sight of this new beginning maybe was a simple [TS]

00:25:09   function but to make your application work you continue to screw up to the [TS]

00:25:12   point where now asking what is this function do you have to tell me a story [TS]

00:25:15   that's three hours long [TS]

00:25:16   so it's not the clever lines are you doing some sort of been asking and some [TS]

00:25:21   sort of clever thing we're here you know sharing some variable and and trying to [TS]

00:25:25   reuse memory from previous incarnation or do some caching that's not your [TS]

00:25:29   problem [TS]

00:25:30   your problem is you know that the function does if you know what I did but [TS]

00:25:33   then by all means do the most crazy clever awesome way that you could do it [TS]

00:25:37   and that have an awesome unit tests to make sure that crazy clever way works [TS]

00:25:40   exactly the same as the boring you know that you're fine then go nuts but that [TS]

00:25:44   data fine is the problem that's the function of this class about how do [TS]

00:25:48   these things that interact with the relationship between these things in the [TS]

00:25:51   program is this post you know how many of them should there ever be one of the [TS]

00:25:56   assertions you can make about them about what states they should be a statement [TS]

00:26:00   like those are the questions that you have to keep in your mind and the [TS]

00:26:05   broader you can get that picture nail down the simple it is I don't know if [TS]

00:26:08   you have any experience maybe if I with a really simple application or something [TS]

00:26:11   where you have or maybe an application to read like a hundred times more [TS]

00:26:16   writing courses have this weird like I'm going to do like a canonical pet store [TS]

00:26:20   example or something if you have a design that really is the correct the [TS]

00:26:24   beginning Cody itself becomes mechanical almost boring is all you're doing is [TS]

00:26:28   like I know exactly what I gotta do what you have to do is not complicated I'm [TS]

00:26:32   gonna write it it's pretty straightforward maybe there's a couple [TS]

00:26:35   of nuances in clever ways to do it but who cares and just it just falls out [TS]

00:26:39   your premise falls out of you because if you have designed correct implementation [TS]

00:26:43   is trivial you know once you know any language more less or any API that's [TS]

00:26:48   really the case usually the design done to that level especially during some of [TS]

00:26:51   the first times you keep having to go back and revise revise and if you don't [TS]

00:26:55   constantly think about what is this thing supposed to do what is this class [TS]

00:26:59   that was as function to what is not to do what does its job and the answer [TS]

00:27:02   isn't simple enough to justify I know exactly do they have a problem like [TS]

00:27:05   that's why I think Marquez text parser is a reasonable thing to fiddle with [TS]

00:27:09   because we know what his job does it takes a web page and it gives you back [TS]

00:27:13   taxes doesn't have all the crap like he can write a fancier explanation but [TS]

00:27:17   that's what it does [TS]

00:27:17   simple input-output operation what happens in there can be extremely [TS]

00:27:21   complex cool and interesting or whatever but you know it in the grand scheme of [TS]

00:27:25   things that's a pretty simple function of the very few side effects [TS]

00:27:27   exactly [TS]

00:27:28   and you're right you know what I'm talking about competing with herself in [TS]

00:27:33   the future and understand what your road and and you know but under complexity I [TS]

00:27:37   am talking about I'm not talking about the you know how you know how you shift [TS]

00:27:42   the bits over here within this function that you're right I don't care I am [TS]

00:27:45   talking about the ball at the crazy you never these at the global stately [TS]

00:27:49   things that are weirdly intertwined that have we are dependencies that is like [TS]

00:27:54   you know it works in your head while you're writing it because you know all [TS]

00:27:58   that stuff it sits in your memory but then as you know in a month [TS]

00:28:01   you're gonna forget how that works and somebody's gonna be breaking in a weird [TS]

00:28:05   way or you gonna have to add something to it and that's gonna break in a weird [TS]

00:28:09   way and you have no idea this whole system works you just want to get to [TS]

00:28:12   work like when you know when you get in that state you like I just want to spit [TS]

00:28:15   the bun and see that they appear like I just wanted to work right and so you [TS]

00:28:18   putting code you just putting the code wherever you need to put code to make it [TS]

00:28:21   work you do you land someplace some very important said you put the code right [TS]

00:28:24   there to say something very right here without thinking you know like is this [TS]

00:28:27   the place where I should be doing this because everything is everyone gets it [TS]

00:28:31   reaches a threshold like so close to this thing working if I could just like [TS]

00:28:36   I just put a conditional their thing would work is that the right place to [TS]

00:28:38   put the conditional why you going to do that check as you know like to ask [TS]

00:28:42   questions i just want to see they want to click the button they want to see the [TS]

00:28:44   thing up here and everybody does that to some degree and it just you multiply [TS]

00:28:48   that by the number of programs and the complexity of the problem and if you're [TS]

00:28:50   not constantly revising your view of the world and constraining your code is just [TS]

00:28:56   the right place this code may be there is no right place this code which [TS]

00:29:00   reflects a problem that are designed that we didn't foresee some time to go [TS]

00:29:02   back to the giant block level and say okay maybe we need to redo these blocks [TS]

00:29:06   and nobody wants to think about that you like but I'm so close off if I just [TS]

00:29:09   because I'm so close that will be fine and up to comment on the top of Anubis [TS]

00:29:14   finally that's why when other people when you look at you know well as other [TS]

00:29:17   people's code when you look at someone else's code you like to be written it's [TS]

00:29:21   because that person maybe didn't do such a good job of keeping the handle on [TS]

00:29:24   things that you look at these functions just ten different things and the name [TS]

00:29:27   has very very tenuous connection with the content of the code and it makes me [TS]

00:29:33   want everyone to know you know it's funny the way you're describing things I [TS]

00:29:37   unsurprisingly agree with everything you said it's almost like the five whys [TS]

00:29:41   developing code you know why did I write this method ok why is this method part [TS]

00:29:47   of this class why is this class part of this namespace a part of this module and [TS]

00:29:52   so on and so forth in and you certainly make a very interesting point I think [TS]

00:29:56   that intrinsically that's what developers tend to do but doing it more [TS]

00:30:01   explicitly and and deliberately certainly can't do anything but help ya [TS]

00:30:07   there was an army had never ever going to have a critical was like what makes a [TS]

00:30:13   good programmer in this article that Marco through the Lincoln for us is very [TS]

00:30:16   similar to it and my contention is more touchy-feely but one of the things that [TS]

00:30:23   there's lots of times what kinds of good programs right and there are you know [TS]

00:30:26   the classic good program like John Carmack whatever just like you know a [TS]

00:30:30   genius really good at math can do very clever algorithmic things like that so [TS]

00:30:35   we think it was like oh he's an amazing program right and there's definitely a [TS]

00:30:37   place up in another kind of very good programmer is always a touchy-feely [TS]

00:30:42   things but like people motivated by [TS]

00:30:46   to you know to avoid things that make them uncomfortable right and disorder [TS]

00:30:52   makes you uncomfortable that will be a strong motivator for you to you know to [TS]

00:30:58   make things harder to people people who are discomforted by you know things that [TS]

00:31:02   are messages are they usually like people say obsessive-compulsive [TS]

00:31:05   personality the wrong word for it so I don't know what the right word for it is [TS]

00:31:08   but you know they have websites where they show like a line of pencils or one [TS]

00:31:11   pencils poking out the type of people who are annoyed by that pencil talking [TS]

00:31:14   and I want to push it back down everyone's annoyed by by a little bit [TS]

00:31:17   but some people are made much more uncomfortable that pencil broke out than [TS]

00:31:20   other people are the more you have that feeling the son of you know that like it [TS]

00:31:27   makes you physically uncomfortable for your books on your bookshelves not to be [TS]

00:31:30   aligned or like things to be out of place and you know they can ever [TS]

00:31:33   wondered what some people have to do a higher degree that is another kind of [TS]

00:31:37   good programmers you find someone who is really really uncomfortable when things [TS]

00:31:40   are unintended properly you would think like I what makes me good programmers my [TS]

00:31:44   technical skill and I [TS]

00:31:45   I'm good with our growth and I know but user interface but really entire class [TS]

00:31:49   of prayer is what makes a good program is their complete inability to tolerate [TS]

00:31:53   things being out of order and that extending all like this class cannot be [TS]

00:31:57   doing this [TS]

00:31:58   that's not the responsibility of this method to do this at all that states [TS]

00:32:01   should not be touched by here there should be an abstraction between this [TS]

00:32:04   nation should reach into that to go that you know every single one of those [TS]

00:32:07   things once you get some knowledge of programming becomes like that pencil [TS]

00:32:10   poking up you just cannot tolerate it all way down to the simple things like [TS]

00:32:13   inconsistent indenting like I know program we have no problem with [TS]

00:32:16   inconsistent and ending spaces tabs random curly brace styles like a giant [TS]

00:32:21   mess that's not common I think programmers are more towards the can't [TS]

00:32:25   stand it when their books are lined up on the shelf but that skill like that [TS]

00:32:28   it's not a skill like that sort of personality disorder I don't know mental [TS]

00:32:34   impairment that you know being physically uncomfortable to a degree [TS]

00:32:39   that's outside their room of the norm by disorder makes you a better programmer [TS]

00:32:44   probably ticular kind and since you know it's usually don't think people want to [TS]

00:32:49   think they're super hour's drive from like they're amazing strength or super [TS]

00:32:52   speeder intellect don't want to think that the thing that makes a good [TS]

00:32:55   programmers that thing that handicaps them and the rest of their regular life [TS]

00:32:59   like not enough to a debilitating degree but that's obsessive compulsive is an [TS]

00:33:02   entirely different thing I don't know what the thing is I'm talking about over [TS]

00:33:05   the realtor missed but some of them like that it's like turning you know the [TS]

00:33:12   silver lining in things that are mentally wrong with you and it's [TS]

00:33:15   definitely the case with me I don't like disorder I think it makes me better [TS]

00:33:19   programmer and I think every program has to to some degree I definitely alright [TS]

00:33:26   well if we continue let's take a break think our first sponsor this week it's a [TS]

00:33:30   new sponsor this week it is Warby Parker Parker was founded with a rebellious [TS]

00:33:35   spirit and a lofty objective to create boot equality closely crafted I we're at [TS]

00:33:40   a revolutionary price point so this is what it is they saw glasses online and [TS]

00:33:46   they do it really really well they believe glasses should not cost as much [TS]

00:33:50   as an iPhone their prescription glasses including prescription lenses a star [TS]

00:33:54   just $95 they also have a titanium collection starting at just [TS]

00:33:58   and $45 all-glass include antireflective coatings at no additional cost [TS]

00:34:05   they include a hard case and cleaning cloth to really really great product and [TS]

00:34:08   they make home buying easy and risk-free they have a single the home Tryon [TS]

00:34:13   program and what they do is you go to their site and you pick out up to five [TS]

00:34:17   frames to try out and they have all these sorts of tools on their site you [TS]

00:34:21   can do things like like having an image of your face that it then like raps on [TS]

00:34:26   it like naps the glasses on to your face you can preview it there or so [TS]

00:34:31   home trying for free online easy risk-free the home try on your pic five [TS]

00:34:37   frames you want random person and they mail them to you you pick whatever you [TS]

00:34:40   want if you want one of those you can go buy it you send him right back and then [TS]

00:34:45   and then this entity with operations really really great now when they put [TS]

00:34:48   the spot they offer the three of us three glasses if we want to try it out [TS]

00:34:54   so they they they had a tryout the home try on and and and you know so we can [TS]

00:34:58   see how good of a part that's what we tell you about it and I don't wear [TS]

00:35:02   glasses but my wife does and she's famous on the internet so I'm actually [TS]

00:35:06   here so it's so is hops but house will be quiet I think she's going to actually [TS]

00:35:12   be joining this and doing the rest of the sponsor read for me she had a whole [TS]

00:35:15   experience was really quite good so here's to if their way how are you could [TS]

00:35:23   hire 100 that we're all worries haha yeah well I am and it sounds like you [TS]

00:35:29   are John [TS]

00:35:31   home trends and I ordered my pair but they haven't come yet ok so you're a [TS]

00:35:36   little behind me know if you're coming they have I got them yesterday are they [TS]

00:35:39   or are they not spectacular I am so impressed like when I got that box is a [TS]

00:35:45   high-quality I'm just ridiculously impressed cuz I just recently bought new [TS]

00:35:49   glasses maybe like a month ago for the first time in 15 years which is crazy [TS]

00:35:54   and they were way expensive and when I finally got them ended up not getting [TS]

00:36:00   so having this experience was perfect for fixing the bad purchase I had before [TS]

00:36:07   which ended up costing so much more money than the word be partners did so I [TS]

00:36:13   got a pair sunglasses actually so I have terrible eyes but my eyes are so bad [TS]

00:36:17   that actually have to wear contacts and I'm not gonna get into the specifics [TS]

00:36:20   matter but I got a pair of non-prescription sunglasses and I did [TS]

00:36:24   the home Tryon thing and one of the great things about the home tryin thing [TS]

00:36:28   is you can you can say is I did well you know what self let's reach a little and [TS]

00:36:32   go out of our comfort zone and you know said Parker send a pair of glasses that [TS]

00:36:37   maybe you wouldn't have picked out if you just saw them on the rack maybe [TS]

00:36:41   something will trendier than you're used to [TS]

00:36:43   and then so I got these five cent of the five pairs of sunglasses and I try to [TS]

00:36:48   Milan and i ended up actually choosing one that was a little bit out of my [TS]

00:36:51   comfort zone and I and i got the final set about a week ago and I love them [TS]

00:36:56   they're really well bill really really nice and I have absolutely no complaints [TS]

00:37:00   and granted I'm kind of compelled to say that but it really is genuinely true now [TS]

00:37:03   John you said you have or have not gone years I got my trying months that's a [TS]

00:37:08   great thing about the tram boxes like they you pick five glasses and i dont [TS]

00:37:12   think like there's an option to pick fewer anything and five is a good number [TS]

00:37:16   because like cases that it does make you pick like because if you pick your top [TS]

00:37:19   three and after that you like I'm pretty sure I'm gonna like one of these three [TS]

00:37:22   that I picked right but I got two more slots to fill you pick you know the same [TS]

00:37:28   thing and getting an impressive music on the website like you don't want to try [TS]

00:37:32   and they have to think we can like upload a picture of yourself and try it [TS]

00:37:35   on and I'm like ok he's gonna be something upload a picture like pace to [TS]

00:37:38   copy of the classes over my face and look stupid in my home girl to telephone [TS]

00:37:42   like them but they do the study guide on how work they must be like doing face [TS]

00:37:46   detection figure out where your pupils are on the scaling and and they have [TS]

00:37:49   like a floating 3d version of the crisis frames so you can like rotated and and [TS]

00:37:55   you know angle it so that it matches how your faces in the photo and it hides [TS]

00:37:59   like that you know the little things that go over your ears they don't [TS]

00:38:02   overlap your face and everything it's really impressive I think I almost [TS]

00:38:05   couldn't pick them out to us from the website using the little 3d [TS]

00:38:09   I would really like to know how that works I think it might be flash I don't [TS]

00:38:13   know what technology but I was really impressed by that but the fact they're [TS]

00:38:17   going to send you the glasses you don't even have to bother with that if you [TS]

00:38:19   don't want to get the glasses and just take off the boxers said in front of the [TS]

00:38:23   mirror someone put another one of the great things like I am ordering [TS]

00:38:26   sunglasses as well they gave me sunglass lenses and my son last so wasn't like [TS]

00:38:30   empty you know I can sometimes be a glass places like just an empty frame [TS]

00:38:34   with nothing in them or their clear whatever these had actual sunglass you [TS]

00:38:38   know like no prescription right because this is just a trial pair but you could [TS]

00:38:40   see how they would look on you as sunglasses which was nice I so I did [TS]

00:38:44   pick the you know three pair that I thought I would like to exotic rare and [TS]

00:38:48   i ended up picking one of the ones I thought I would like some boring person [TS]

00:38:51   but this month it was fun to try them out and I didn't end up with the one [TS]

00:38:55   that I thought would be likely number 12 need to do this five things I know in [TS]

00:38:58   like this when I am here and pick you like my third one I did a second round [TS]

00:39:03   of phone trials because I was so excited about the sunglasses I'm like ok I'm [TS]

00:39:06   gonna get a pair of regular classes as well and I only picked 3490 try on and [TS]

00:39:12   so worried Parker took it upon themselves to see the style that I liked [TS]

00:39:17   in that I picked and they filled in the rest of the day the other two in the box [TS]

00:39:22   and when I got them I ended up picking one of the pairs that the Warby Parker [TS]

00:39:26   people picked for me which is pretty impressive I thought that was a really [TS]

00:39:31   cool feature so you can pick fewer than five but they'll fill in for you and [TS]

00:39:36   they ended up making a better choice than even I added a note of 55 shots [TS]

00:39:42   just the second round so I had already done five and there is the second round [TS]

00:39:51   you picked one of the ones that picture so you picked like all together seven [TS]

00:39:55   pairs of glasses and you didn't pick any order a pair of glasses and you didn't [TS]

00:39:59   take any of the eight your own age you picked him up of the two things correct [TS]

00:40:03   yet wow that's pretty impressive yeah yeah they did a fantastic job market is [TS]

00:40:09   hovering behind me so I think you wanted to get back on the air but nobody likes [TS]

00:40:15   a kid all thanks to appreciate appreciate the camera thank you guys [TS]

00:40:23   together on Mike we do you should get her on my I only have one if only you [TS]

00:40:32   had sold something recently so you can afford another spot so they have to say [TS]

00:40:37   so yes or Parker they price their lessons affordably because they believe [TS]

00:40:43   glasses are like a fashion accessory and if each pair doesn't cost you like [TS]

00:40:47   hundreds and hundreds of dollars than you can afford to have more than one if [TS]

00:40:51   you want to and they know that not everybody can afford glasses there's a [TS]

00:40:55   whole lot of people in need who need glasses and who can afford them they [TS]

00:40:59   have a great program called by a pair give a pair for every pair of the [TS]

00:41:04   glasses sold they also donate a pair to people in need and that's really cool [TS]

00:41:08   and it's just so ultimately their event has classes company to make high-quality [TS]

00:41:13   products tips also mention she's also very impressed by the quality relative [TS]

00:41:19   to her like expensive professional ones from before they're actually better in [TS]

00:41:24   most ways than the one she got from her eye doctor so very very happy with this [TS]

00:41:28   company and so too will be Parker dot com that's WA RBY Parker dot com and [TS]

00:41:36   when you order the home try ons do it you know have fun when you order the [TS]

00:41:42   final pair that you want to buy use our coupon code ATP and that'll get you free [TS]

00:41:48   3 day shipping so again use coupon code ATP when you make your final purchase [TS]

00:41:51   and only three 3 day shipping so thanks a lot darker grey glass company thanks [TS]

00:41:58   to sponsor the show took forever but they really are there good that's right [TS]

00:42:03   I figured I figure was fun and I and the idea by them haven't if coming and they [TS]

00:42:08   have sunglasses and stuff but I already have like three pairs of sunglasses like [TS]

00:42:12   another one and she actually really needed glasses cause her existing ones [TS]

00:42:18   she just gotten were not fitting her at all and [TS]

00:42:21   and so I ran by then the idea of having her to be every night yes sure their [TS]

00:42:26   phone companies so anyway thanks to them I want to talk a little bit about an [TS]

00:42:31   offshoot of the topic that we had right before the break about about code [TS]

00:42:36   long-term health and when things get too complex and they kinda buckle under [TS]

00:42:41   their own weight so the Instapaper web app as we discuss was very simple and [TS]

00:42:46   didn't have too many of those problems the iOS App Store afraid might because [TS]

00:42:52   it on so many came in this paper iOS apps in the App Store on day one so the [TS]

00:42:57   first bit of code written for IOUs to and most of the current code was written [TS]

00:43:02   for iOS three and I've matured over time you know to add features here and there [TS]

00:43:08   but the core code base pretty as a city there's still some view structure in [TS]

00:43:16   there for iOS three and there were some modern features I never took advantage [TS]

00:43:21   of things like child view controllers do control containment all that stuff it [TS]

00:43:24   was interesting I think five I never even took advantage of that and back [TS]

00:43:29   then and the list of things that the supplies to get smaller every every last [TS]

00:43:34   release but over time there's always been you I characteristics or effects [TS]

00:43:41   that I've wanted to achieve and the API for whatever reason didn't expose them [TS]

00:43:48   so you basically have to fake it or hackett somehow and overtime in stable [TS]

00:43:54   built up quite a lot of those for various things and a lot of it was to [TS]

00:43:59   its great advantage things like like the iBookstore pagination there was an API [TS]

00:44:05   for that but the structure of it made it almost impossible to use any reasonable [TS]

00:44:11   way with a WebView and of course actually an iOS 7 I think they've [TS]

00:44:17   instead of one of the slides the nation to web use a flag you can see [TS]

00:44:22   so I one line of that will replace you know thousands of activists but I'm [TS]

00:44:30   trying you know over time that really made into papers iOS codebase pretty big [TS]

00:44:35   and there there are a few hacks in there that are pretty uncomfortable and so now [TS]

00:44:41   working on this new big app and it actually gonna be a Business Insider [TS]

00:44:45   reader that's that's the new app plus I'm working on this new app and trying [TS]

00:44:53   to do in the UI is avoid those kind of hacks as much as I can like it rather [TS]

00:44:59   than like if I want a certain really cool feature rather than saying oh yeah [TS]

00:45:05   let me let me let me in [TS]

00:45:07   invest two weeks into making this tremendous pile of hacks that i'm gonna [TS]

00:45:11   hate in six months we have to go back and change something and it have all [TS]

00:45:14   these weird side effects because I just have to do that one feature rather than [TS]

00:45:19   doing that I'm trying and this is actually pretty hard I love doing those [TS]

00:45:23   who create the house at the time but I'm really trying to to lean more towards [TS]

00:45:30   just doing the eighty percent solution doing like whatever the UI affords me [TS]

00:45:35   the ability to do easily whatever the API allows an easy way just do that and [TS]

00:45:40   don't get into this giant pile of hacks style of like gotta keep this one crazy [TS]

00:45:46   future by doing this big pile acts but I don't know what do you think I mean I [TS]

00:45:52   don't have a realistic and part of the reason I did it with its neighbor was at [TS]

00:45:55   a it was cool being oppressed and see it was a huge competitive advantage so I [TS]

00:46:00   don't you know I don't know maybe doing that sometimes a good idea I think you [TS]

00:46:04   can avoid it makes you stand out like you know it maybe there's a brief [TS]

00:46:09   honeymoon period Iowa summer merely just doing the standard your iOS 7 is it is [TS]

00:46:13   enough for like the day when launched but all those things and Instapaper did [TS]

00:46:16   that made it different you know its branding it's raining here application [TS]

00:46:20   and even if it's just like but I wish they could slide out instead of just [TS]

00:46:24   appearing and there's no way to do that well if I make it a totally different [TS]

00:46:28   element ever do something with custom car animation layers said refusing [TS]

00:46:31   you know navigation controller that you know does whatever it wants to do it [TS]

00:46:37   will just add that little little bit of difference there and those little things [TS]

00:46:41   add up and make your application stand out as oh this is not just a bunch of [TS]

00:46:45   standard controls in wages interacting in exactly the same way as they would in [TS]

00:46:49   some demo application it's got a little extra and yet to find a balance between [TS]

00:46:53   a little extra letterpress right so this [TS]

00:46:58   and clearly you know you're not even be approaching Alberta right but you're [TS]

00:47:04   saying well maybe maybe in september likes I saw that I was like when I lived [TS]

00:47:08   over the course of three entire major releases of Iowa City get a little [TS]

00:47:12   creepy so maybe just try to start out with this few of those you can maybe [TS]

00:47:15   just maybe you just want like the just one defector elementary transition that [TS]

00:47:20   I can't get that are going to do in a fancy way in it and it's something that [TS]

00:47:23   people will see a lot of nowhere to stay with my application but I'm going to [TS]

00:47:26   hold off on being like but I really wish that I could get that thing to do that [TS]

00:47:30   but oh well the thing that it does now is fine I really wish I was a little bit [TS]

00:47:34   different but I'll just use the regular clashing class and class doesn't display [TS]

00:47:38   you know doesn't reshuffle their show the title the way I wander wouldn't it [TS]

00:47:42   be great if the title could fly you know all that stuff is gonna know you about [TS]

00:47:45   using Apple state-controlled especially the ones that are immature but you just [TS]

00:47:48   sort of grin and bear it and pick your battles and maybe pick one or two places [TS]

00:47:51   in the first version read defenses stuff and then just wait like this like you [TS]

00:47:56   said if you wait long enough you know maybe it'll get built in and the people [TS]

00:48:00   who waited until page-turning was built in [TS]

00:48:02   they had a baby had a competitive disadvantage but there are other [TS]

00:48:06   instances where people didn't have a competitive disadvantage that has waited [TS]

00:48:09   for you know some sort of you know navigation controller future to appear [TS]

00:48:13   and you had acted in version too and it appeared in version 3 that was maybe not [TS]

00:48:17   a worthwhile hack for something most people didn't even know it was a you [TS]

00:48:21   know fancy behavior when it's also about where you're making these fancy hats so [TS]

00:48:26   for example you know the iPad version Instapaper had what basically was a [TS]

00:48:31   collection of you before there was a collection of you is not right it was [TS]

00:48:34   called I P Fig gridview yeah exactly and so what I'm driving any as you could do [TS]

00:48:39   something fairly wild with you I collection view that isn't [TS]

00:48:43   standard but is supported and that's a very fine line but very important ones [TS]

00:48:49   so here it is you're taking you a collection of you which is a completely [TS]

00:48:53   standard component but you're doing a wild I don't know what they call it the [TS]

00:48:57   layout or whatever you're doing a really wild custom layout in order to do [TS]

00:49:01   something interesting and if you look at WBC 2012 when they were talking about [TS]

00:49:06   the collection of you they did some unbelievably clever and trick things [TS]

00:49:10   with the collection of you with not a lot of code just by doing a custom [TS]

00:49:13   layout and so maybe the right answer is you choose easy and intelligent places [TS]

00:49:18   to make these custom wild things happen that are kind of supported or maybe just [TS]

00:49:22   do some really wild stuff with coordination that isn't that isn't off [TS]

00:49:26   the reservation if you will but it's different and by doing in places that [TS]

00:49:31   are designed to have this flexibility than maybe that will prevent some of [TS]

00:49:35   that creaking us in the future yes anything that supports views like do [TS]

00:49:40   something fancy in your view but that and that is probably more maintainable [TS]

00:49:44   and then saying the thing that controls these news that's where I'm going to do [TS]

00:49:48   the fancy stuff you know yet exactly i mean that like a lot a lot of what a lot [TS]

00:49:54   of those hacks I did over the years were things I transitions and and to some [TS]

00:50:00   extent the fake review was actually the figured you was not that bad because it [TS]

00:50:06   was so containers you are saying john looked like it was it was a table view [TS]

00:50:11   infected actual the table you subclass which is known brief greeting us and and [TS]

00:50:16   adjust it worked like a tale of you that the data source delegate almost the [TS]

00:50:19   exact same way to it was actually pretty black boxy so it wasn't really a problem [TS]

00:50:26   and didn't have to write your review you didn't have to say all this is a [TS]

00:50:29   completely flexible collection you use it in any orientation they number rose [TS]

00:50:33   and lights and anything you know you have used anything I want to populate [TS]

00:50:36   them and tell you didn't have to make the Instapaper which constrains what you [TS]

00:50:42   have to do so you can make your gridview work you're not on the hook to make a [TS]

00:50:45   general-purpose collection view that works in a million different context [TS]

00:50:48   right exactly so you know that really wasn't wasn't that one of the hacks the [TS]

00:50:53   bigger hacks came from things like transitions and [TS]

00:50:55   and especially more on the iPhone with the iPad I was doing a lot more of my [TS]

00:51:00   own custom UI a very common practice though for programmers making iOS stuff [TS]

00:51:06   is generally stay with the new I get four for a lot of uses but then you hit [TS]

00:51:13   some kind of weird limitations edge case probably its annual bar button item had [TS]

00:51:20   some kind of edge case and you like well if i if I want this to do this thing [TS]

00:51:26   then I have to like not even use UI toolbar or a dream that my own button or [TS]

00:51:31   something you know something on a pretty large scale like that and if you say yes [TS]

00:51:36   even a couple of those things it starts getting kind of insane and then if you [TS]

00:51:41   start if you start saying things that involve multiple views and multiple [TS]

00:51:45   controllers like navigational structures or transitions then you can start [TS]

00:51:50   getting pretty hairy pretty quickly and everything that comes out this becomes [TS]

00:51:57   easier to do in a in a supported or at least a cleaner way you know I S seven [TS]

00:52:01   supports all sorts of cool new stuff to make this to make a lot of these hacks [TS]

00:52:04   either unnecessary or substantially better and more maintainable and and but [TS]

00:52:11   there's always going to be that bleeding edge of things that are unsupported and [TS]

00:52:13   like you know there's gonna be like I I think it's it's a lot like you know when [TS]

00:52:20   making this about like Instapaper itself was it was a collection of very very [TS]

00:52:23   simple things with like two hard things the text parser and the Kindle format [TS]

00:52:28   thing those right to hard things and thereafter with a bunch of easy things [TS]

00:52:32   if the number of crazy things you're doing it's pretty small and everything [TS]

00:52:37   else you doing is pretty easy then that is competitive advantage and you can get [TS]

00:52:41   away with it it's it's a matter of of balancing those like my new app I have [TS]

00:52:46   this one like really crazy low-level feature that i really wanna do but it's [TS]

00:52:51   one of those things where it hits an edge of you like it and I'm going to [TS]

00:52:54   have to do a lot of work to make that work right and I'm weighing now i cant [TS]

00:53:00   even should only be shipped version without it because it's going to be so [TS]

00:53:05   much work for one feature [TS]

00:53:07   but it's a pretty nice feature you know it's it's always this battle in my head [TS]

00:53:12   if they do I do this why not do this I don't know it's a tough thing and [TS]

00:53:18   especially early on you know you don't know you don't know when to say no yet a [TS]

00:53:23   lot of the times and in what I hear you saying earlier to turn this into the [TS]

00:53:26   jaws Polski rerun show is kinda broken windows thing where if you if you allow [TS]

00:53:33   yourself early on to go a little bit wild and then the next time you have to [TS]

00:53:39   question while can I get a little bit wild with this when he did it before [TS]

00:53:41   wanna do it again and it's a slippery slope and and so especially if you're [TS]

00:53:46   early on and development as I know you are it's it's it's better in my opinion [TS]

00:53:51   in most cases to try to stay as stock as possible and as simple as possible so [TS]

00:53:56   that you don't allow yourself to go absolutely crazy from the foundation up [TS]

00:53:59   exactly do we want to talk about something else that's awesome or do you [TS]

00:54:07   wanna wait a minute we do let's do it now has a gap on our second awesome [TS]

00:54:11   thing is yet another new sponsor I believe their new are sure they're not [TS]

00:54:14   into my site for me as a person but their igloo also known as a software so [TS]

00:54:20   a glue is an internet you'll actually like now I don't know if anybody who's [TS]

00:54:25   anybody who's ever seen you before I don't know of anybody who has any kind [TS]

00:54:30   of positive association with the word internet generally these are horrible [TS]

00:54:34   internal corporate sites that you're forced to use your job that are badly [TS]

00:54:40   made badly maintained daily work and required use IE six was increasing its [TS]

00:54:44   like that nobody likes their internet unless they're really customers because [TS]

00:54:49   a clue actually makes an internet that you will like your workers were like so [TS]

00:54:54   you can share content quickly with all sorts of built-in apps they have blogs [TS]

00:54:59   their calendars file-sharing forums they've twitter-like microblogs wikis [TS]

00:55:04   and everything can be social you can comment on any type of content you can [TS]

00:55:08   add reply at mentioned your co-workers Twitter style you can follow content for [TS]

00:55:13   updates you can tag things you can group things you can add on rooms you can have [TS]

00:55:18   many igloos for certain teams from division [TS]

00:55:20   is to work in the whole thing all these features are very very easy its drag and [TS]

00:55:26   drop it as responsive design it uses beautiful type kit funds these people [TS]

00:55:31   really know their stuff and it's like you know they're applying all the [TS]

00:55:36   awesome modern progressive design and features that we get on the consumer web [TS]

00:55:40   to the internet world and that's extremely rare so they're doing it all [TS]

00:55:45   for you plus a clue has enterprise good excuse me enterprise-grade security you [TS]

00:55:52   can start using it right away it's free to use up to 10 people that's pretty [TS]

00:55:56   cool if you have a staff of 10 people are less it's totally free so go start [TS]

00:56:00   using it today and when it grows its only $12 per person per month for a [TS]

00:56:05   business is extremely affordable way cheaper than developing your own and [TS]

00:56:09   it's just so much better its world better than most people internets to go [TS]

00:56:14   to a clue software dot com slash ATP that's a truce offer dot com slash ATP [TS]

00:56:20   start billion igloo today free to use up to 10 people go for it thanks luckily [TS]

00:56:25   software they're fantastic sponsors is sponsored lots of great podcasts [TS]

00:56:29   actually listen to the shows which is pretty great and so they they've done [TS]

00:56:33   like inside jokes on some of the shows in fact meet me on this page and [TS]

00:56:38   services welcome ATP listeners up top and they you know they their fans their [TS]

00:56:44   fans of our stuff they appreciate what we do so give him a shot [TS]

00:56:48   igloo software dot com slash ATP thanks to a clue for making awesome internet [TS]

00:56:53   and sponsoring our show they should have a program where they're like they send [TS]

00:56:58   people to your office to convince the powers that be they should get rid of [TS]

00:57:02   that like is often than I wish I could get rid of my internet and replace it [TS]

00:57:05   with a good but i cant cuz I'm in the 2000 person company and employee right [TS]

00:57:09   like seven teams look you need to change because I wish I wish we didn't have to [TS]

00:57:14   use the things we're using all they also have a sammich video I mean come on how [TS]

00:57:19   cool is that how can you go wrong with the same yes I check him out there are [TS]

00:57:23   so many go watch this video [TS]

00:57:26   usually I mean it did say this is one of the problems I get it it's like it's [TS]

00:57:32   like we have [TS]

00:57:33   have her everything like everyone has seen terrible domain registrars will [TS]

00:57:36   everyone has seen terrible internets without revealing too much only recently [TS]

00:57:41   was able to do something without using Java in my web browser on my entry level [TS]

00:57:48   job in the browser only reason they were there I'd non Java way to do it like I [TS]

00:57:54   actually [TS]

00:57:54   victories I I recently wished for Java in the browser to work again for some [TS]

00:57:58   reason I machine doesn't work anymore I don't know finance audit from one of the [TS]

00:58:02   security things recently or what but I my life ish dot com fasho downloader [TS]

00:58:09   like every every time there's a fish store I i buy it and then every time [TS]

00:58:14   every night of the concert I can go download the show from that night and [TS]

00:58:17   they have a Java multi file downloader thing and that that hasn't worked have [TS]

00:58:22   had to like hold option and click on the links one by one and it's really hard [TS]

00:58:26   life like an animal [TS]

00:58:28   yeah exactly like a program for you I thought it actually writing like at [TS]

00:58:34   least try to look fine day Safari extension I'm sure I'm sure somebody go [TS]

00:58:40   wherever you copy and paste the source and run it through thing and a bunch of [TS]

00:58:46   some kind of weird session stuff and are now does it say it's all indicated [TS]

00:58:50   because it's just a great grab your cookie jar and I'm done it many times [TS]

00:58:55   trying to grab WWC things grapple videos and every time I do it like you know I [TS]

00:59:00   started to love does not bother you again just to paste into BBEdit [TS]

00:59:04   repeatedly hold down and saying chords that involved like three or four [TS]

00:59:08   modifiers at the same time that memorized to grind the files up into [TS]

00:59:13   bits and then throwing a double score data token and start right pro coat on [TS]

00:59:18   top of that and make a series of scripts the process yeah actually with it really [TS]

00:59:23   should be as a bookmarklet because then you're running right in the context of [TS]

00:59:26   the page to be really really to make them yeah you could write a script to [TS]

00:59:30   talk about John I know you had an interesting topic he wanted to bring up [TS]

00:59:36   yeah this was I let them down for bowling today because we got it from [TS]

00:59:41   and the title of the story is regular people have no idea how to manage photos [TS]

00:59:46   on their phone just not really so much but i wanna talk about don't talk about [TS]

00:59:50   that the points that were down to the end of this thing and wrote it [TS]

00:59:54   chambers chambers and he's talking about how the promise photo management under [TS]

00:59:59   French people just buy phones and they take pictures with them and like I mean [TS]

01:00:04   I think about this is all my relatives and friends who have phones like what do [TS]

01:00:10   they think about their own a phone right and the taking pictures but then [TS]

01:00:14   sometimes the pictures that they care about kids are at their soccer game or [TS]

01:00:17   the Sun scoring his first goal is like something like they're important [TS]

01:00:21   memories right did they ever think about like what happens if you drop your phone [TS]

01:00:25   you know your car window when you're driving or something like that happens [TS]

01:00:29   if you spill coffee on it I think they don't think those photos are gone [TS]

01:00:34   forever thing they just think like the photos are magically safer maybe they [TS]

01:00:37   don't even know what people think about this but the bottom line is that Apple [TS]

01:00:41   doesn't take care of you or your dated I think it should and I this was way back [TS]

01:00:48   when I first started writing unlike the fat butts blog on our technical years [TS]

01:00:52   and years ago one of the first things I wrote about was this problem that Apple [TS]

01:00:56   has made these devices and encouraged everyone even back in additional days to [TS]

01:01:00   put your most precious possession pressures non-living possessions on [TS]

01:01:07   their hardware and then they don't care what the hell happened soon after that [TS]

01:01:10   like that not that that's a bad like I think there should be more concerned [TS]

01:01:15   about taking care of your stuff because seriously like your house burns down [TS]

01:01:19   your family and your pets all get out alive [TS]

01:01:21   the first thing that you care about of them like hoping you had some kind of [TS]

01:01:24   insurance is probably like your family photos here movies because those things [TS]

01:01:27   can be replaced you can buy a new car you can buy new furniture can build a [TS]

01:01:30   new house as long as everyone is safe it but you can't recreate to those those [TS]

01:01:34   photos that you know and we have all these devices that to make these [TS]

01:01:38   memories what's keeping them safe and less you're a nerd and have like this [TS]

01:01:41   crazy backup regime and know exactly where you know the problems are your [TS]

01:01:46   stuff is completely vulnerable and we're so close now to having a technology [TS]

01:01:51   where Apple or any other company could take care of us [TS]

01:01:54   they don't and so that the problem with the photos I like you start taking [TS]

01:01:58   pictures and you keep going and once you get past like a thousand pictures are [TS]

01:02:03   you know whatever whatever the limit of was at 5 gigabytes really give you a [TS]

01:02:05   nightclub you know if you drop those voters may only be on your phone and if [TS]

01:02:11   you drop your phone in the ocean you lost all the photos that were in the [TS]

01:02:15   last two thousand there in photostream or something that's if you you know i [TS]

01:02:18   simply got to the processing gotta stop enforcing whatever I know people just [TS]

01:02:22   some apples taking the pictures but at this point Apple should be taken care of [TS]

01:02:25   everything [TS]

01:02:26   Apple's devices should be designed in such a way that if they're [TS]

01:02:29   network-connected devices that if you smash your computer with the hammer at [TS]

01:02:33   your house burns down if you throw your iPhone the ocean your dishes still be [TS]

01:02:36   available and I'm not saying I'm pleased to make that happen for free but they [TS]

01:02:41   need to figure out some way to make it happen and back when I read about this [TS]

01:02:44   in fact that ages ago was like I was saying that everything computers come [TS]

01:02:47   with these two hard drives but you shouldn't tell people this to in there [TS]

01:02:50   and all your data sure you're done at all times right because hard drive [TS]

01:02:54   failure is a big problem [TS]

01:02:55   online backups or antenna background because people don't have enough [TS]

01:02:58   indications are saying look at least make it so that someone hard drive does [TS]

01:03:01   it was all a picture of their kids always had like double and who can [TS]

01:03:04   afford to do that I'll believe the only company that razor thin margins but [TS]

01:03:07   Apple maybe could hike built into the price of the devices or whatever and at [TS]

01:03:12   the end of this article [TS]

01:03:13   suggestion that's like usable but it would be nice not the same type of thing [TS]

01:03:19   make iCloud free this region or call me i cud free for the total size of oxygen [TS]

01:03:23   Isis so if you have like a 16 gigabyte iPhone 4 32 you about iPad you should [TS]

01:03:28   get forty eight gigabytes of iCloud for backup so did the very least every [TS]

01:03:31   single byte of data on your phone or iPad can be backed up by a new iPad and [TS]

01:03:35   it's starting to get no 3G 32 gigabytes of storage like make that the fault if [TS]

01:03:41   possible make it free if you can't make it free [TS]

01:03:44   built into the price of the device they're already like pretty impressed [TS]

01:03:47   devices like it's important if you if Apple would commit to this they could be [TS]

01:03:51   the vendor the gets the reputation like oh yeah costs more but you don't have to [TS]

01:03:55   worry about losing your day-to-day keep their protected all for you like they'll [TS]

01:03:58   keep it backed up you don't have to worry about you know monthly fees and [TS]

01:04:03   all these other things and bring about your backup things you can buy an iPhone [TS]

01:04:06   take pictures with it checking into a fire go to the Apple store get a new [TS]

01:04:10   iPhone but you have to buy or not don't worry your pictures will be there Apple [TS]

01:04:13   does not have a reputation nobody has a reputation now but the first person to [TS]

01:04:17   get their reputation it will be worth alot to people because I think most [TS]

01:04:20   people are using these devices and using their computers and stuff and they're [TS]

01:04:24   all their digital memories are available and could be destroyed at any moment and [TS]

01:04:29   just like crossing my fingers hoping it doesn't happen you know you're [TS]

01:04:32   absolutely right now I had a friend call me maybe a month or two ago and he said [TS]

01:04:37   you know my wife I think we're gonna get a new iPhone and of course this is just [TS]

01:04:42   a month or so ago and I said oh my god no why is coming out soon what are you [TS]

01:04:47   thinking and and so he said well she's out of space [TS]

01:04:51   ok to take stuff off her phone then well she's got so many pictures on there [TS]

01:04:57   depending on how many pictures you're talking about that may not be a problem [TS]

01:05:00   well and she also she takes a lot of video [TS]

01:05:04   goodness and so need talk talking to both they're both my friends but to [TS]

01:05:10   talking to my friend the husband who called me and and his wife took a while [TS]

01:05:15   talking them saying you've got to get the stuff off your phone because not [TS]

01:05:18   only is it not secure on your phone like john is saying but it's taking up a [TS]

01:05:21   credit to space especially 1080 video they mean thirty seconds videos like [TS]

01:05:26   eight billion gigs and so you have to get off your phone there's no need to [TS]

01:05:30   buy new phone just for that and then we're gonna put it ok well what do I do [TS]

01:05:36   when I take it where do I put it and it used to be at least you could assume [TS]

01:05:39   that a personal computer put on your personal computer but that's just [TS]

01:05:42   another place where I can die because you put on your computer and then the [TS]

01:05:45   person who was hard drives gonna die in t minus two and a half years and was [TS]

01:05:48   gonna happen to know tonight doing backups right in there probably not even [TS]

01:05:51   doing time she didn't want to buy a second hard drive it like there's no you [TS]

01:05:56   want them to be taken care of you want to be able to just tell them like you [TS]

01:05:59   could like you know what kind of computer should I get a Mac right you [TS]

01:06:02   want to build so what's new about back to you want to say something like are [TS]

01:06:07   you signed up for iCloud on all your devices yes then you're fine but you [TS]

01:06:10   can't say nothing you can say that then you have to like a seven hour [TS]

01:06:12   conversation about backup strategies it's going to be their eyes glaze over [TS]

01:06:15   and even at the end of it [TS]

01:06:17   you're going to be gone back home wondering ever gonna do anything I [TS]

01:06:20   suggested they gonna forget about it is a time machine drive not to be mounted [TS]

01:06:23   the not gonna notice or six months in there a little you know we as technical [TS]

01:06:27   people trying to support less technical people don't have any peace of mind [TS]

01:06:31   about this in reality so close to having you know we have basically technology [TS]

01:06:36   and systems economic problem and the problem of nyquil [TS]

01:06:40   Google's come the closest to the Chromebook initiative that the [TS]

01:06:43   presentation they reside in the Chromebook despite the fact that just [TS]

01:06:46   using a really expensive but nice looking laptop that only as a web [TS]

01:06:50   browser is not appealing yet to be born this kind of limiting they have the red [TS]

01:06:54   deer with like take your Chromebook run over the steamroller don't worry about [TS]

01:06:58   to get a new Chromebook typing your stuff everything is back you didn't [TS]

01:07:01   those things as long as we had time to upload it you're you're fine right I [TS]

01:07:05   don't hold onto that's a big problem [TS]

01:07:08   time to upload I know that's one of the big problems holding this up right now [TS]

01:07:12   it isn't just about there is no web services that are highly integrated that [TS]

01:07:15   are doing all this for you for low-cost or free that isn't that isn't the main [TS]

01:07:19   problem the main problem is think about how many people on iPhones or devices [TS]

01:07:26   like iPhones who are in a situation or have a home connection or have data caps [TS]

01:07:33   in which uploading things to cloud backup uploading photos and videos to [TS]

01:07:38   claw back on a regular basis is is impractical but you don't have to his [TS]

01:07:41   uploaded I mean I think about you and we did that transporters spot like that [TS]

01:07:45   where we have the technology do most things like if you just saved by a bunch [TS]

01:07:48   of these things that stick around your house like potted plants and go on in [TS]

01:07:51   your office and give unto your friend likes to know if it was just easy enough [TS]

01:07:55   for you to like work work work clothes were really really close to being [TS]

01:07:58   economically feasible for someone who can afford an iPhone to never have an [TS]

01:08:02   excuse elucidated even if it's not cloud likely to be like the third tier like in [TS]

01:08:06   the second tier is like have a computer system that's redundant and like the [TS]

01:08:10   other two years like having lunch at the store network attached storage nodes [TS]

01:08:14   around your house because like you know it's like a caching hierarchy we're like [TS]

01:08:17   on the device is good and then when you get back home for your tears you know it [TS]

01:08:21   to 11 AC Wireless that stupid to professor is going to happen in five [TS]

01:08:26   years or whatever it takes that start to penetrate right [TS]

01:08:28   gotta go to your little like transporter type devices are your time capsule or [TS]

01:08:31   whatever and then the next thing is like an iPhone iCloud when you're sleeping if [TS]

01:08:35   you know if you slow connection it will like you know we're almost there is just [TS]

01:08:40   a matter of like working on a system in some company committing to anything you [TS]

01:08:44   know what we're going to be responsible protect your data not saying things like [TS]

01:08:47   when you're coming to the Genius Bar make sure you have a backup knowing [TS]

01:08:50   everyone's gonna look at Mango whatever and then be pissed when all the Davis [TS]

01:08:54   got on the computer at your parents like I'm sure it happens all the time to them [TS]

01:08:57   and I like it in Apple's interest as like the premium vendor and the guy who [TS]

01:09:01   makes the hardware and software and now they have web services to to get there [TS]

01:09:04   before someone else does and figure this thing out when it gets its more than [TS]

01:09:09   that to though is not because say you're on vacation and like say when when Marco [TS]

01:09:14   and Tiffin and I were in germany what if I took a whole bunch of pictures on my [TS]

01:09:18   iPhone because I'm not a photographer and I don't have a fancy pants camera [TS]

01:09:22   pictures on my iPhone which at this point [TS]

01:09:24   irreplaceable I may or may not have had access to any network connection but [TS]

01:09:30   particularly wifi and all of a sudden now all those pictures are gone because [TS]

01:09:35   Marco ran over my phone with his m5 but you have access to each other so like [TS]

01:09:39   you should be able to have a family like this gets into the whole thing about [TS]

01:09:42   families if you guys going on a trip together you should be able to enter [TS]

01:09:45   into an arrangement whereby Alderaan things are transferred among yourself in [TS]

01:09:49   the little circle of the ad hoc network that is your people there so that you [TS]

01:09:52   drop your phone I don't worry I've got all your pictures they got pulled down [TS]

01:09:56   onto my macbook air on just like you know there are some percentage of them [TS]

01:10:00   like the technology is there for all these things to work it's just a [TS]

01:10:03   question of working out the interface and the decision to do it it shouldn't [TS]

01:10:07   it shouldn't be like that your devices as little island and you guys go on a [TS]

01:10:12   weeklong vacation with no internet access and since you drop your phone all [TS]

01:10:15   those pictures again like there are we should be able to stop that from [TS]

01:10:19   happening in some way I mean is this balance between ease of use for regular [TS]

01:10:27   people and getting around with all these educators and so the way to get around [TS]

01:10:32   the edge cases usually involve [TS]

01:10:36   local hardware where you have either like a time machine disk for a time [TS]

01:10:40   capsule and and by the way I don't have the time capsules but that's a separate [TS]

01:10:45   question so you have things like that to avoid the whole band width and depth and [TS]

01:10:50   data cap issue but those things are all things that regular people are often [TS]

01:10:55   going to either not think they need and therefore not bike is too expensive or [TS]

01:11:00   they're not going to do it right and in a way that like I'm sure everyone listen [TS]

01:11:05   to the show has some point had a friend or relative say oh I lost files my heart [TS]

01:11:11   I can you help me get them back and you say ok yet you have a backup to say yes [TS]

01:11:15   and you go over to their house and they they're here almost house Roma backup [TS]

01:11:20   drive [TS]

01:11:24   thinking in these people where they may buy an external hard drive is too small [TS]

01:11:32   to buy an external hard drive and at just becomes the place where the files [TS]

01:11:36   and they think it's a backup drive as an external hard drive and he called the [TS]

01:11:40   back of anythink good as a backup but it's just one hard drive at the files on [TS]

01:11:44   it I i just i I tuned out as soon as you said you had friends that had normal as [TS]

01:11:50   no one ever as backup to external drives back up but now I'm with you but I can [TS]

01:11:56   still trying to process the thought of a regular person not a nerd saying yes I [TS]

01:12:00   do it anyway you have those people or you have the people who you know if you [TS]

01:12:07   try to make it work from these cases the problem is that these modern devices the [TS]

01:12:12   cameras keep getting better so you have these devices that you know you mention [TS]

01:12:15   in the video you can tell her well your photos be backed up in low resolution [TS]

01:12:20   for a little while but your videos mostly won't be because they're 400 megs [TS]

01:12:25   each and that's impractical you know it you get around that stuff having local [TS]

01:12:29   stuff that avoids a network once you involved the network though it can be [TS]

01:12:33   easy and automatic for everyone so you either have local stuff that is [TS]

01:12:37   expensive and can be easily misconfigured are screwed up that can [TS]

01:12:42   back up everything or internet-based stuff that can be automatic [TS]

01:12:48   and foolproof but you have that problem of bandwidth and data caps and therefore [TS]

01:12:53   usually can't back up everything like I said we're so close it's kind of like [TS]

01:12:57   when we just barely got technology to do digital distribution of audio because [TS]

01:13:02   mp3 came out but we still couldn't really do movies or TV right and even [TS]

01:13:06   today like audio is like no prob least throw around songs at their tiny files [TS]

01:13:11   they you know they're easy to go you know that the ban within the memory [TS]

01:13:14   capacity in computing everything totally went past audio but for video more like [TS]

01:13:19   you can buy TV shows but we can really start them all and we can have a big [TS]

01:13:24   hard drive so someone will stream kinda stream 1080p but doesn't look like we're [TS]

01:13:28   just on the edge of being on the handle video and for things like video you [TS]

01:13:32   record yourself in 1080p that's probably outside the round what we can handle [TS]

01:13:35   where we're right on the cusp and I think it's okay to start with like we [TS]

01:13:39   get you know we can only do songs but only crazy people are downloading video [TS]

01:13:43   on the internet like back in the Napster days right just doing it for songs is a [TS]

01:13:47   big win and it lets you sort of like work out the kinks of things go so that [TS]

01:13:52   eventually ten fifteen years later when the movies to feature length movie star [TS]

01:13:57   to be impossible to read is like how we can or will you support the stuff that [TS]

01:14:00   with the iTunes Music Store in like it's just it's like a natural extrapolation [TS]

01:14:04   to do to do movies for backups we should have been traveling the same road but [TS]

01:14:08   haven't been like a need to be ambien like wi-fi like wi-fi wireless [TS]

01:14:13   networking technologies nobody could use and now everybody can use it and how do [TS]

01:14:17   we go from something that nobody uses something you'd like to know coffee [TS]

01:14:21   shops have wifi ever has wifi how do you get on the wifi you know if you told [TS]

01:14:25   somebody back in the early days of computer networking the regular people [TS]

01:14:28   are going to be able to walk into a building and get on the network thereby [TS]

01:14:32   you think a down the network to network administrator do to help them and [TS]

01:14:35   they're going to configure the network stack on their operating system now [TS]

01:14:38   they're not going to do that you work it out and so until you get to system that [TS]

01:14:43   people can use you know and there is an investment in deep technology that Apple [TS]

01:14:49   is not really doing Google's kind of doing that makes it possible to use its [TS]

01:14:53   not like one company came up with the wireless networking like wi-fi and those [TS]

01:14:56   wi-fi standards that is deep deep technology that you can't just like [TS]

01:15:01   my only son came up with something in like you know six months and I think [TS]

01:15:04   this is how we're going to wireless networking you have to have very smart [TS]

01:15:07   people think about it for a long time ago through it you know [TS]

01:15:09   standards process and get hardware vendors on board [TS]

01:15:13   revise revise revise over and over again and then finally eventually 10 15 20 [TS]

01:15:18   years later you reach the promised land [TS]

01:15:20   you can't just say what we're gonna do backups and will have like the SUN [TS]

01:15:23   device out there who like copy stuff and I'll make this photostream service and [TS]

01:15:27   my photo upload to its will have the iPhone teamwork you gotta work think of [TS]

01:15:31   it like as the overall problem say we need some side of you know to your bait [TS]

01:15:37   a tiered storage architecture that works on any device and we're gonna take the [TS]

01:15:40   next five years to develop this architecture we're gonna start small and [TS]

01:15:43   we're gonna you know it's gonna be like peer-to-peer between our devices and [TS]

01:15:46   it's also going to be you know pushing things up to the highest level they can [TS]

01:15:49   get in an encrypted and shared in like maybe you file system of some kind [TS]

01:15:54   mixed in there so you could send efficient block difference between i [TS]

01:15:58   dont wanna talk about it but like that kind of that kind of like deep core [TS]

01:16:02   technology you gotta work on that for years before you get any bang out of it [TS]

01:16:06   if you don't work out at all you're gonna have his half a solutions that [TS]

01:16:09   like Marco said you end up having edged cases that you think no one is going to [TS]

01:16:11   be able to handle like you can't just sit around waiting for magically for us [TS]

01:16:15   to have Gigabit upload bandwidth from everywhere into a magic cloud that you [TS]

01:16:19   know like I guess maybe that will come eventually but we're close enough now [TS]

01:16:24   like photos I think you could handle people stores maybe you can't handle [TS]

01:16:27   their videos maybe they just because they're just too darn big and the [TS]

01:16:31   ability to record video outpaced our stuff but I think you know apple and [TS]

01:16:35   everybody else is dropping the ball on this and we really need a solution like [TS]

01:16:38   with the hardware the tier this stuff could work we just don't have the [TS]

01:16:43   software to do it and that that's a that's a failure of this offer guys [TS]

01:16:46   think when I also wonder if we don't have the impetus to do it what I mean by [TS]

01:16:50   that is I almost feel like we need computer hardware specifically mass [TS]

01:16:58   storage to be less reliable in order to force regular people to care enough to [TS]

01:17:02   demand these things like that that's work for Google like this that so many [TS]

01:17:06   servers that you just have to build [TS]

01:17:08   that's not the case with individual hardware right and it's like the [TS]

01:17:13   argument that the only way we'll get more efficient cars is to make gas four [TS]

01:17:17   times more expensive than it is you know it's a similar thing where if hard [TS]

01:17:20   drives failed constantly then people would know I'm a need for copies of [TS]

01:17:25   these pictures because I know one or two of the four gonna die in the next six [TS]

01:17:29   months [TS]

01:17:30   yeah we need a personal cast monkeys but the cast monkey yeah that's every [TS]

01:17:36   company should have a cast and I'm not sure if it's like Netflix still does it [TS]

01:17:40   as a one time thing over the PR stunts are they really have anything like that [TS]

01:17:43   but the Cask Marque is within that likes the idea that they have something [TS]

01:17:47   intentionally going around screwing up their systems to test that they had done [TS]

01:17:52   his work so they don't wait for things to fail they have an active program or [TS]

01:17:55   series of programs that go around and break stuff in their own like data [TS]

01:17:59   centers to prove to themselves that ok if this type of machine goes down we're [TS]

01:18:04   okay i three of you go down there ok this which ties were okay and they're [TS]

01:18:08   doing it to themselves intentionally all the time to sort of build up their [TS]

01:18:11   immune system so you have like a person who came at your house at night and [TS]

01:18:14   smash morning or devices like randomly erased one of your hard drives like and [TS]

01:18:19   they think I came like once every two months you would very quickly figure out [TS]

01:18:23   some way you would figure out some way to develop the summer you would demand [TS]

01:18:26   from all your vendors like Apple you know pick a smoke is coming to my house [TS]

01:18:31   every night destroying things you guys got to come up with a better system to [TS]

01:18:33   protect my dad because I'm losing all the pictures of my baby and that's why [TS]

01:18:37   it gotta come from its gonna come from from the consumers like I mean that's [TS]

01:18:41   what leadership is it shouldn't have to come from the consumer's Apple should be [TS]

01:18:44   leaving here they they're in a position to do this type of thing they should be [TS]

01:18:48   thinking about it and doing instead of being a putz is that they are still make [TS]

01:18:51   it impossible for one family shared a single iPhoto library like same group [TS]

01:18:55   alright but they're not and yes even came from the other direction that would [TS]

01:19:00   really help us all but nice things stand at your hard-earned dollars every three [TS]

01:19:04   years human memory size should you be like now I think I might have had those [TS]

01:19:07   optical somewhere or you just like give up in like well I think opposed to most [TS]

01:19:10   of the Facebook you know and I'll never look at them again I know what can [TS]

01:19:14   happen all these people are like 80 years old you know fifty years from now [TS]

01:19:18   they want to see you though the picture of their kid was when you're able to [TS]

01:19:21   have them anymore cuz they won't have the physical photo albums that are [TS]

01:19:23   parents to try to our parents house we can look at those books that point there [TS]

01:19:30   at that a lot I have heard from a lot of people who have you know lost phones or [TS]

01:19:34   whatever they they say oh I you know we still have the ones who puts a face but [TS]

01:19:38   that's a very very common reaction and and kind of mental insurance policy for [TS]

01:19:45   a lot of people I wonder you know what happens what happens like twenty years [TS]

01:19:49   from now on Facebook shuts down to my facebook there but the terrible [TS]

01:19:54   qualities they like read compressed oh yeah and good luck finding them thirty [TS]

01:19:58   years from now thirty years you know I think we did that thirty years ago that [TS]

01:20:05   stuns me is all have people friends relatives acquaintances that will have [TS]

01:20:11   catastrophic data loss bad bad data loss and you know what they do differently [TS]

01:20:17   after that happens not a thing they do what like what is their recourse like [TS]

01:20:23   there are any buying like the best quote unquote they're buying Apple stuff and [TS]

01:20:27   they were using them in like the way they see them used in Apple commercials [TS]

01:20:32   and they still lost all their data so like they don't have the tools to fix [TS]

01:20:36   this should have to fix it then it's on to say like Apple should be providing a [TS]

01:20:40   way to make it as easy for them to have the data protected as it is for them to [TS]

01:20:44   take their phone to a coffee shop to get on the network and I completely agree [TS]

01:20:47   but I guess what I'm driving at is it seems like the moment data loss happens [TS]

01:20:52   your average consumer says I guess that's gone now and that's that in there [TS]

01:20:57   is no more discussion and natural disasters like we're working to [TS]

01:21:00   earthquakes you can't be still regular people technology is basically just like [TS]

01:21:05   the weather [TS]

01:21:06   well you know you can complain about it but obviously this is unchangeable law [TS]

01:21:11   of the universe that we're gonna lose data is most people who are adults today [TS]

01:21:15   have grown up having all sorts of computer failures and most people don't [TS]

01:21:20   use Macs and even people who do use Mac still have failures may be fewer of them [TS]

01:21:25   are different ones but you know most people have grown up using some kind of [TS]

01:21:28   crappy computers with crappy software and you know where where things are very [TS]

01:21:32   constrained and expensive and unreliable and so almost everyone who's an adult [TS]

01:21:39   today at some point had a computer that had to be wiped or that had a hard drive [TS]

01:21:43   failure or something some somehow the computer was forced to be wiped started [TS]

01:21:47   over so it's like to them it's like you know they're they're like an abusive [TS]

01:21:51   relationship with that technology we're like they just like oh yeah okay I guess [TS]

01:21:56   that's just what happened with computers too bad you know that they don't they [TS]

01:22:00   don't know that it doesn't have to be that way and I don't quite understand [TS]

01:22:06   why I again Apple of all companies hasn't jumped on this more because [TS]

01:22:12   they're all about like figuring out what real people from that's that's why I was [TS]

01:22:17   so successful because they had the vision of like people hate that come [TS]

01:22:21   about installing and uninstalling stuff that people hate trying to find software [TS]

01:22:24   bikes through Google certain stuff we just had one store and get a bundle icon [TS]

01:22:29   appears if you don't like it you exited goes away that's what that's what people [TS]

01:22:33   want and they did that in the graded everything about the iPad is so much [TS]

01:22:37   better than the neck and terms of you know throwing in front of someone who's [TS]

01:22:40   not a technical person saying here go nuts they can browse the web they can [TS]

01:22:43   send email to play games it's fun it's you know it's not an even lower the [TS]

01:22:47   price is cheaper than impact but this whole thing about keeping your day today [TS]

01:22:51   still have those commercials dunno how beautiful it is you take pictures of [TS]

01:22:54   your children and all these memories you having happy times and laughing with [TS]

01:22:58   your friends and making videos and all that stuff is going to be gone in start [TS]

01:23:02   the clock because this not doing anything to help you like protected [TS]

01:23:06   long-term and maybe they think you're not supposed to protect him maybe you're [TS]

01:23:09   just supposed to like enjoyed in the moment look at it and [TS]

01:23:11   and let it disappear when you buy a new phone you drop in the ocean but they [TS]

01:23:15   don't mention that in the commercial I cannot show that experience like that [TS]

01:23:18   time we went to parrot look at those pictures out of those three phones ago [TS]

01:23:21   house anymore we're running long should that be a good one more thing it is this [TS]

01:23:29   the kind of thing you'd you'd think Apple would tackle I mean this is a big [TS]

01:23:32   webservice big data back and maybe that's been good at it but like they're [TS]

01:23:37   good at like saying that looking beyond the way things are done now to do like [TS]

01:23:42   like cases the five whys and get all way down to the root problem like people [TS]

01:23:46   don't want to deal with any of this stuff let's just saw their actual [TS]

01:23:48   problem that actual problem is I want to browse the web I want to send email and [TS]

01:23:52   iPad can let them do that without all sorts of complications and concepts that [TS]

01:23:56   existed on the Mac complicated that they're good at cutting through that [TS]

01:23:59   stuff and so this is another case where you know well backup is difficult and we [TS]

01:24:05   always problems and how we gonna pay for this and we're going to store it and [TS]

01:24:09   made people to have a blog bandwidth caps or whatever and you know like a [TS]

01:24:13   time machine was a good step in that direction but that's like the last [TS]

01:24:17   century step even the time she was in the last century Apple's the kind of [TS]

01:24:21   company who has the margins and the control of hardware software and also [TS]

01:24:25   usually the vision to not worry about the technical details and just figure [TS]

01:24:30   out what people want to make it happen that's why I think yeah but you're [TS]

01:24:33   forgetting that so much of this hypothetically relies on really strong [TS]

01:24:37   Internet services we've all discussed ad nauseum that is not apples I know but [TS]

01:24:42   they haven't liked the heavy like really even attempted it like it also depends [TS]

01:24:45   on like deep technology like Core standards in like building [TS]

01:24:49   infrastructure which is also not good at especially when it comes to data storage [TS]

01:24:53   so many of Apple's blind spots but I I thought I would have rather seen them [TS]

01:24:58   like three years ago come out with like Apple's new cloud file system it's [TS]

01:25:04   everywhere at once and it would be a terrible problem not work but at least [TS]

01:25:06   they had the right idea of like we are going to completely abstract storage on [TS]

01:25:12   all levels knew this crazy multi hierarchy thing in [TS]

01:25:14   understand it as a core OS feature not as like a GUI feature like a major [TS]

01:25:19   version of iOS iOS 10 it has to be like a feature like the kernel or the file [TS]

01:25:24   system has to be at that level where are the web service level never even [TS]

01:25:27   attempted that they haven't made any run at like photostream is the closest I've [TS]

01:25:31   come in that's like one little appendage hang off a couple of applications on iOS [TS]

01:25:35   and Mac that's kind of weird and you could only recently delete things from [TS]

01:25:38   that and understand how it works and it's not clear people at the mental [TS]

01:25:41   model is and it sure as hell doesn't apply to anything some of the photos [TS]

01:25:44   that you mention those particular applications like they're not done [TS]

01:25:47   anything going for the big solution and failing there just maybe they maybe they [TS]

01:25:51   know their limitations and it just like we have to nibble about that this from [TS]

01:25:54   the edges I still don't know what photostream backs up doesn't like it so [TS]

01:26:00   just assume it backs up nothing that's what people do like I remember for like [TS]

01:26:05   six months photostream to show me black rectangles in iPhoto like they were my [TS]

01:26:10   photos because they were the right number and i can tell from the [TS]

01:26:12   orientation is the addition of my house but they were just completely black [TS]

01:26:15   well that and then like you do you have the full resolution copies and forestry [TS]

01:26:20   and where is it have smaller I think it's ok all right let's wrap thanks a [TS]

01:26:28   lot to our to sponsor this week [TS]

01:26:30   Warby Parker and igloo software and we'll see you next week [TS]

01:26:35   now this show as they didn't even mean to begin it was accidental [TS]

01:26:45   John [TS]

01:26:48   Casey it was a joke and you can be a team Marco [TS]

01:27:34   say this I think someone posted it again in the eye of some things talk about [TS]

01:27:42   those people who are actually listening to this it's the STU does design studios [TS]

01:27:56   I was not its to design our Stan Everex concept [TS]

01:28:00   basically a OS iOS 7 style redesign of Mac OS can have a big better and hope [TS]

01:28:07   this is not this year I actually don't think it's terrible though I feel like [TS]

01:28:13   the menu bars totally out of place given the rest of the screen I have her ex [TS]

01:28:19   thank you sam the geek that makes more about this I don't like but overall he [TS]

01:28:29   looks fine I do you think Apple will go on an iOS 7 like direction with don't [TS]

01:28:34   see why the Mac us to look anything I can see it being redesigned but I don't [TS]

01:28:39   see any reason it has to look anything like I always liked it did did the max [TS]

01:28:44   buttons ever look like I was as buns maybe they came close to a certain point [TS]

01:28:48   but like they were like recessed like the iOS 6 buttons bar with like a little [TS]

01:28:52   shadow on top of them they were on on top you know i mean i i would say that [TS]

01:28:56   OS 10 never believed that much like I wasn't my first yeah I mean you can [TS]

01:29:00   redesign the redesigned to look exactly like your other thing you can just be no [TS]

01:29:04   but familiarity is never a bad thing especially new high design yeah that's [TS]

01:29:10   true [TS]

01:29:10   section review about that topic but you know you don't need a space thing about [TS]

01:29:17   this right before the Iowa 7 1,000,000,000 the keynote was like the [TS]

01:29:21   night before or something like that [TS]

01:29:23   about how you know people people are trained on how to use interfaces these [TS]

01:29:28   days and you don't really need something to look exactly like a button for people [TS]

01:29:33   to figure out the bun stuff like that and some of this like you know you don't [TS]

01:29:37   need ten to have the same visual style as iOS four people to know how to use it [TS]

01:29:43   you know it's like [TS]

01:29:44   just give it like a similar behavior like oh there are things you can click [TS]

01:29:48   on that behave like buns there are labels there are no lists and structures [TS]

01:29:53   and you know other ways to present data and to deal with it you don't need to [TS]

01:29:58   look at the same you can have its own totally different visual theme and [TS]

01:30:02   people figure out a hot dog stands 3.1 is to forget how to use it [TS]

01:30:08   that said though like a straight up exactly I 007 style redesign I think it [TS]

01:30:14   would work fine [TS]

01:30:16   like because the I was seven style like there's not much to it right you know [TS]

01:30:20   like it might like to look at look at the notification thing we're showing a [TS]

01:30:23   notification like dogs got buttons like the iOS 7 concedes that the buns go [TS]

01:30:29   ahead instead of being in the buttons like that's fine you know the window [TS]

01:30:37   controls being lot line services thanks I mean that locals together but you know [TS]

01:30:41   like these details but it doesn't look like crazy and looks reasonable but I'm [TS]

01:30:49   not I'm not saying oh I don't look at me and I can tell you that I would like any [TS]

01:30:54   kind of cool redesign but you know this right so even though it's only been two [TS]

01:30:59   days has a review I wish that I wish the OS would work better so that I could [TS]

01:31:05   review it is the review I don't know what their schedule is like because they [TS]

01:31:13   putting out bills and things don't work out how can I write about them if they [TS]

01:31:17   don't work well just 25 everytime you touch something at any touch interaction [TS]

01:31:26   running 10 naps it logs and debug messages to the console on a truck [TS]

01:31:33   solution just increased the program counter [TS]

01:31:37   like to patch over fprintf doesn't obviously the shipping as bad as out on [TS]

01:31:44   some kind of you know minimal testing or at least less testing schedule like [TS]

01:31:50   you know it there if they ship that out leaving this this this extremely common [TS]

01:31:57   debug print statement in there that's annoying every single iOS developer this [TS]

01:32:00   week obviously you know what else are they leaving in there and I think it's [TS]

01:32:05   at the start but I had a Cisco VPN client downloaded from the official [TS]

01:32:08   Cisco website not a bad I'm not anything like that on OS 10 that would log like [TS]

01:32:14   like a base 64 dump of the data it sends and receives all the data center [TS]

01:32:19   receives [TS]

01:32:20   like I installed it and I'm on the VPN and doing things on the air [TS]

01:32:23   hard-driving tick tick tick tick tick on the console login my son's memory before [TS]

01:32:31   just log change the database format anyway and there was there was all data [TS]

01:32:36   so it's like well when I'm kind of the VPN is going to just abused my hard [TS]

01:32:40   drive at any time by writing a little bit today that eventually gets flushed [TS]

01:32:44   to disk things people will ship but works I want to write about iBooks [TS]

01:32:52   yesterday and today but it is not in a state where I can use it to do things to [TS]

01:32:58   write about today I spent a long time trying to purchase a book like it's the [TS]

01:33:04   very first [TS]

01:33:05   like and how cannot so now I'm in this annoying uncomfortable state where I am [TS]

01:33:10   and I'm terrified to make screenshots of anything because like you know should I [TS]

01:33:15   go nuts taking screenshots of everything now and then have to redo the mall or [TS]

01:33:18   should it wait until like the very last minute and just do them in a scramble [TS]

01:33:21   this time like 70% done with the writing which is not done with the with the [TS]

01:33:29   production of this thing then naturally can we make the opening soundbite I [TS]

01:33:33   spend a lot of time trying to buy a book just that good now I have a very [TS]

01:33:41   important question was tipped listening live in another room and came running in [TS]

01:33:45   at the eleventh hour was she actually hearing only one side of the [TS]

01:33:48   conversation in the office for like the hour we spent before the Warby Parker [TS]

01:33:52   spot neither of those when I when I knew this was coming up I sent her a I [TS]

01:33:57   message [TS]

01:33:58   saying come in now expected about 25 minutes and that was about 30 minutes [TS]

01:34:04   and that was pretty good morning that I was like 30 35 something like that so I [TS]

01:34:08   sent a message saying hey come on announced that she was here she said she [TS]

01:34:13   watched me listen to John for about 45 seconds and then I passed over her so [TS]

01:34:22   she could take not true man what i've seen [TS]

01:34:27   not a lot of feedback about the last episode since it's only been out for a [TS]

01:34:30   few hours but everyone is sad I got circles around I wanted in my ears [TS]

01:34:35   immediately followed that was not granted there was like it was it was it [TS]

01:34:41   was like you know we're still looking back on a bad experience wow what's [TS]

01:34:48   Randy like randy is when I talk about TiVo or file systems for educators show [TS]

01:34:55   the show on file systems and heard that everyone was mentioning you put into it [TS]

01:35:01   covered on the same ground but then went forward more past what I have talked [TS]

01:35:06   about my talk about a hundred more things have transpired although not much [TS]

01:35:10   in the Apple world what's going on anything it was two days ago nothing now [TS]

01:35:17   done things different now somebody's going on vacation all next week yet John [TS]

01:35:24   back to back to the grind yeah so he doesn't know where we're going tomorrow [TS]

01:35:31   she knows we're going but she doesn't know where it should be fine but we'll [TS]

01:35:36   see how this works out on scared she's extremely easy going so it should be [TS]

01:35:40   fine but I'm scared you guys back by not being here the entire fall [TS]

01:35:46   be doing what you'll be doing you have no job you have nothing to do pretty [TS]

01:35:51   much almost every weekend in September or October I'm doing something like it's [TS]

01:35:55   crazy those months are insanely booked for me on Wednesdays [TS]

01:36:01   findings I think I'm only gonna be like one Wednesday it's really not be easiest [TS]

01:36:08   vacations get two for the show might be a problem trying to actually ship my [TS]

01:36:12   apperance I'm most definitely not going to see you don't think I'll be there on [TS]

01:36:16   day one I will I would give that like a 20 percent chance of this point maybe [TS]

01:36:21   even less I really the more I do with it the more I want to do with it and i know [TS]

01:36:27   im gonna obviously have that problem of you know [TS]

01:36:29   taking forever never shipping version one but the bigger thing is I'm Way [TS]

01:36:33   behind on even getting the basics done and some of its going faster than [TS]

01:36:37   expected some of its going slower than I expected and so i dont im still too far [TS]

01:36:41   out to say you know whether I will be able to get out there for day 1 like [TS]

01:36:47   whether it's even possible but I'm guessing looking at it now it's not cuz [TS]

01:36:52   you know what if what if day one is like late September that's what six weeks [TS]

01:36:58   away and it's really it's pretty close and I still am still working on the [TS]

01:37:05   naming issue I still have the company formed by what I'd like to give the [TS]

01:37:09   company the same name as the product and therefore I don't have like the stupid [TS]

01:37:14   DUNS number yet I can't get the Apple developer account yet so i cant get all [TS]

01:37:18   my final certificates done and make her testing push notifications and all these [TS]

01:37:23   all these things that no matter how much I worked my butt off right now there are [TS]

01:37:28   these things all take blocks of time to have to be done in a certain sequins and [TS]

01:37:33   so the reality of me getting this out there in any kind of ship but 1.0 state [TS]

01:37:38   within six weeks is pretty much zero plus you should probably submitted like [TS]

01:37:43   two weeks before the actual release date of the OS and approving the first two [TS]

01:37:50   weeks ago so he's going to bounce back at least wants exactly i mean any any [TS]

01:37:54   new app you got to assume you gonna be rejected so [TS]

01:37:57   you know chances of me getting it out there for iOS 7 shirley is a pretty much [TS]

01:38:02   no I mean the apt have to be almost done right now for that you know you have to [TS]

01:38:08   have it pretty much ready to go [TS]

01:38:11   ready to be in the App Store on day one you have to have all the curd [TS]

01:38:15   effectively done now would have to be in a very advanced better and if it is not [TS]

01:38:20   a very very bitter today you're probably going out there for day one [TS]

01:38:25   yeah they're so what are you gonna put it out in March of next year I'm [TS]

01:38:30   shooting for all as well you know but you know whose definition of fall like I [TS]

01:38:36   wanna get out there for this fall I don't again I don't know how realistic [TS]

01:38:40   it will be to hit any particular month and thinking october november is [TS]

01:38:47   probably more reasonable for the holidays people get their iPhones and [TS]

01:38:52   iPads for Christmas they can store up here but you have a busy October for [TS]

01:38:55   sure I'm involved with I know half of your October I'm going so between [TS]

01:39:00   September and October I'm going to two conferences that are that are very far [TS]

01:39:05   away each I'm going to anniversary trip is it it's our 5th anniversary this year [TS]

01:39:11   and I'm going to our driving trip which is gonna be awesome that's all that's [TS]

01:39:17   like four major trips yet for major trips within two months where you goin [TS]

01:39:24   free anniversary thing you want to share [TS]

01:39:26   stated a little sort that we like yeah we want our wedding night excuse so you [TS]

01:39:32   know it's and I'm coming all the stuff in to that time plus maintaining you [TS]

01:39:40   know the blog this show you know if the general like baseline workload that has [TS]

01:39:44   to do every week it's gonna be a rough rough rough early fall [TS]

01:39:51   you know by by November so I should have an easier schedule in time for the [TS]

01:39:57   holidays and all the family travel goes along with that I can help you out about [TS]

01:40:00   just how you market that actually you have five vacation days left this year [TS]

01:40:03   so you'll have [TS]

01:40:05   imagine Fargo had a real J O B job a couple times now we've now everyone's [TS]

01:40:17   confused about what the driving thing is I feel like we should just let them be [TS]

01:40:20   confused yet to be confused will take pictures and put them somewhere that [TS]

01:40:24   involves driving mister hint that's your big and John refused to come [TS]

01:40:29   John if you chose not all even get me started about their items on either side [TS]

01:40:36   of these things and I weigh the pros and cons and make a decision is not a [TS]

01:40:40   refusal to do and obviously good thing nor is it a rejection of an obviously [TS]

01:40:44   bet you John I'm only slightly kidding guess how many vacation days I have left [TS]

01:40:50   this year after all I have put down the of 172 you can book too but I can [TS]

01:40:57   actually just booked today just bought plane tickets after she booked it she [TS]

01:41:02   said ok how many you have left it there really got any other water while I [TS]

01:41:07   believe a moralist booked up I think I have I have to give myself like to keep [TS]

01:41:12   to my back pocket for like one day one day I'll be sick and one day i maybe one [TS]

01:41:17   day may be packed and has to do take a day off work to do like emergency Mac OS [TS]

01:41:21   10 review scraggly hopefully I want to use that one nice I'm still mad at you [TS]

01:41:27   either way but then kids get sick and had stayed home with the kids and [TS]

01:41:30   sometimes you can be working from home and sometimes you can't depending on how [TS]

01:41:33   sick the kid is taking to the doctor and limited vacation days it's like RTS [TS]

01:41:40   where you have limited resources you can just know you cannot use mine for [TS]

01:41:44   tomorrow or should we say two titles before I falsely three phones ago that's [TS]

01:41:51   nice [TS]

01:41:52   nicely encapsulates some of the things that we talked about is kind of [TS]

01:41:57   interesting that might be the nicest thing you've ever had a title is looking [TS]

01:42:03   for in Title is something that I can look at our money will be like the [TS]

01:42:07   Thrustmaster on [TS]

01:42:08   I'm not sure that we remind me what we talked about the TV show although I know [TS]

01:42:13   I never had a Thrustmaster but I wanted one they were definitely very cool but [TS]

01:42:17   the only reason I got it was because dad decided he wanted one [TS]

01:42:20   yeah it wasn't really even it wasn't mine but I was going to use it that was [TS]

01:42:24   during the time that dad loved getting us random fun piece of electronics and [TS]

01:42:29   thought he would use them and they never told this to my son explicitly I said [TS]

01:42:35   look the only reason you have all these video games is because I like playing [TS]

01:42:38   video games games I'll let you play them if you really like to like the harmonica [TS]

01:42:44   or something I can get you are Monica but I wouldn't spend the amount of money [TS]

01:42:47   you know me like it like you're getting the advantage of overlapping with my [TS]

01:42:52   hobbies and these are my game systems and games that's why you can't play a [TS]

01:42:55   lot of them like you want to add a lasting loss and stuff like a grown-up [TS]

01:43:00   game like it's kind of sad because you would think you'd like his two kids [TS]

01:43:03   everything he gets every modern you know as soon as it comes out he gets every [TS]

01:43:06   time we get there but they're not his their mind he doesn't have anything he's [TS]

01:43:13   got every Lego known to man I guess that he does have those those are his but [TS]

01:43:16   that's kinda because I want them to get exactly the truth comes out but there [TS]

01:43:20   are his the Legos or his body against mine [TS]