The Accidental Tech Podcast

31: Swimming In 16 GB Gold


00:00:00   10 hazard you john has changed a bunch of stuff and EPA and change and stuff [TS]

00:00:05   like this create and sell stolen ship they'd start price so if you've been [TS]

00:00:11   drinking things other than water lately have you like gotten some soda to get [TS]

00:00:14   over the ANC's nope a diet pepsi or something what was your biggest Diet [TS]

00:00:21   Sprite as my restaurant drink when I go out and what time ever have spread is [TS]

00:00:26   gonna go to restaurants what i get if i get anything some time to study water [TS]

00:00:30   spray is my go-to I learned the difference between living in Richmond [TS]

00:00:38   Virginia man living in a mint major metropolitan areas like Boston or New [TS]

00:00:43   York because I went to the Apple store to do the easy stealing EZPay thing and [TS]

00:00:49   I need to pick up of lightning cable from my parents are visiting and and [TS]

00:00:52   they had only one lightning cable with mom and it was brought busted because [TS]

00:00:57   was a third party one block someone to do the ECC EZPay thing and i ended up [TS]

00:01:02   just by pure happenstance seeing a friend of mine in there so i cant [TS]

00:01:05   talking to the guy and then one of the Apple employees in a blue shirt a double [TS]

00:01:10   take chances are UKC yes yes but not the correct answer that question was of [TS]

00:01:22   course health Casey [TS]

00:01:24   the one opportunity to say that to myself I think about it so it gets [TS]

00:01:35   better though because I lose track of this individual caught my friend for a [TS]

00:01:40   little bit and then I don't know this for sure but all the sudden to other [TS]

00:01:46   blue shirts come swooping in from the middle of nowhere but they're people [TS]

00:01:50   inside of them but yeah it was weird [TS]

00:01:52   so there were there were people inside a blue shirt so anyway so these [TS]

00:01:58   it almost seemed like the first individual [TS]

00:02:01   went into the back room to say oh my god guess who's here and then the other two [TS]

00:02:06   came sweeping out and it was the most flattering and ridiculous and overseeing [TS]

00:02:10   and so it's good it's good to live in small town and and so John when you go [TS]

00:02:15   in with your busted or is your wife's busted Cinema Display or whatever [TS]

00:02:19   Thunderbolt Display number jealous of and you don't get special treatment why [TS]

00:02:23   did get special treatment to drive back to my house and get my idea that I [TS]

00:02:27   forgot like that's it that's all the one I didn't and it wasn't like it's not to [TS]

00:02:32   be flattered my ego it's like practical purposes like most the time I do not [TS]

00:02:37   want to be recognized I don't like this one time just this one time and yeah [TS]

00:02:42   that is depressing that I have literally never been recognized an Apple store [TS]

00:02:46   that's ok don't you know who I am I'm a professional complained like I just [TS]

00:02:52   don't wanna get back in the car was like you drive out to make a trip you know [TS]

00:02:55   bring the whole thing could drive out there don't get back to my car and drive [TS]

00:02:58   past my fault I guess I am the one who forgot my idea claiming the staff of the [TS]

00:03:02   store for it at all but like boy i just i just wanted to this one time to save [TS]

00:03:06   me a car and it did not work so now I will never ever forget my idea again I [TS]

00:03:11   still have to bring things back almost brought the display back again because I [TS]

00:03:14   thought my warranty that I had extended was about to run out pretend that I have [TS]

00:03:17   another year so I continued to let it sit here with a broken camera because I [TS]

00:03:22   better get into Paris and get it back in time for a month average review but now [TS]

00:03:26   when I learned that extra year is gonna wait until the review is done to send it [TS]

00:03:30   in again so in summary Andrew and Scott I believe with their names thanks for [TS]

00:03:36   being nice to see if this actually end up in the show which doesn't use it [TS]

00:03:40   probably will be made fun enough alright so anything happen this week we got a [TS]

00:03:46   credible we do ya is in a document of around looking at yesterday's do we want [TS]

00:03:53   to skip it since we have a busy night and we want to do it well we aren't [TS]

00:03:56   allowed to do it at the end that that is true we establish that because some [TS]

00:03:59   moron asked if you could do follow-up at the end and clearly that's just now is [TS]

00:04:03   this topic is this far enough into the show that we can't do it anymore he [TS]

00:04:07   crossed the follow up to this point [TS]

00:04:11   the arbiter alright so actually this is mostly year course John is not in the [TS]

00:04:20   sense that you have the most followed by this snappy camp stuff that Marco should [TS]

00:04:23   talk about but since he's totally unprepared for this thing he can talk [TS]

00:04:26   about it so well yes the developer snappy can email doesn't give us a lot [TS]

00:04:31   of great information I don't know how much of it is relevant to read on a [TS]

00:04:36   podcast but it was basically we are are statements about it being awesomely [TS]

00:04:44   engineered salmon they were pretty accurate he built quite a system there [TS]

00:04:48   and he believes that he has not been sure locked and that there is a bright [TS]

00:04:55   future ahead and I was wrong actually when I said I thought a hundred and [TS]

00:04:58   twenty FPS was on one of the slides turns out 60 fps is on one of the side [TS]

00:05:03   that was referring to the capabilities of the iPhone 5 hardware so I'd like [TS]

00:05:08   correction alone now I believe the NDA's officially up as of today right I [TS]

00:05:14   believe it's raining now which is why we have a busy show now we can talk about [TS]

00:05:17   all the stuff that we had been holding back from by the NDA which actually [TS]

00:05:21   isn't that much stuff but I'm sure that we will make it big and we've had entire [TS]

00:05:26   shows we've said all you will have two things to talk about and then ninety [TS]

00:05:29   minutes later we're just finishing the second thing wasn't like the last 30 [TS]

00:05:33   percent while not the very last episode neutral but like the three prior [TS]

00:05:36   every alright so johnnie want to talk about this analogy for a couple minutes [TS]

00:05:44   yeah we talked a lot about psychology couple years ago but one topic we didn't [TS]

00:05:47   get to it although a couple people asked about my favorite hobby horse data [TS]

00:05:51   integrity [TS]

00:05:53   and people are asking so now you've got all this storage aren't you worried [TS]

00:05:56   about data integrity in bed ridden all those things to me answer is yes I am [TS]

00:06:01   still worried about that because Synology does not currently support CFS [TS]

00:06:08   unless you use it as a nice cozy aggressive use and iSCSI device then [TS]

00:06:13   it's just like it's directly attached storage as far as your computer is [TS]

00:06:15   concerned that your computer supports CFS any good format it however you want [TS]

00:06:20   of course you know using a Mac with a problem for me because I was 10 [TS]

00:06:24   solutions for his GFS are not great not particularly stable open DFS project but [TS]

00:06:31   it's really sort of a conglomeration of its existing products but anyway the [TS]

00:06:36   upshot is that analogy runs txt for you probably change it to something else you [TS]

00:06:42   wanna get a view that as i skazhi you can format it for everyone and 64 to my [TS]

00:06:48   knowledge does not have any features like CFS that do checks on all data and [TS]

00:06:52   metadata let alone things like getting blocks and all that stuff so it's not [TS]

00:07:00   the one that was written by the murderer was no that's not specify which also [TS]

00:07:06   doesn't have a date and everything [TS]

00:07:08   integrity features as far as a nice guy has no integrity yeah a lot of [TS]

00:07:14   filesystems will do metadata check something but very few of them do please [TS]

00:07:20   check something data and metadata [TS]

00:07:22   Anna to CFS big thing is that it's not just checks on the subject and and [TS]

00:07:26   integrity checking everything you say makes a healthy round-trip always three [TS]

00:07:32   untied storage systems for your drivers through the network through all the [TS]

00:07:35   firmware on the disk caching from the rain some whatever whenever things are [TS]

00:07:39   in the way the office make sure you Davis is making round trip itself so you [TS]

00:07:46   know obviously I would prefer if it had CFS on it but I but not so much that I'm [TS]

00:07:51   going to do the godess kozyrev discussed in previous shows that I wanna extension [TS]

00:07:55   I don't pay for extension I'd rather use it as network attached storage causes [TS]

00:08:00   more flexibility in the performance has been great in everything but and because [TS]

00:08:03   like even if I did that then I will be forced to try to deal with whatever the [TS]

00:08:07   F S 40 S 10 software is out there and do with all its bugs and everything like [TS]

00:08:11   that so I'm not ready for that the one thing he has going for it over me just [TS]

00:08:17   having a bunch of external disks is that I have slightly more faith than txt for [TS]

00:08:21   will not corrupt itself in the way that each of us plus routinely does in terms [TS]

00:08:25   of losing track of which blocks were allocated how many files and directories [TS]

00:08:29   and all that stuff during the course of normal operation of course I don't have [TS]

00:08:33   enough experience with ext4 to say this for a fact because I've UCSD to [TS]

00:08:37   extensively have used 63033 probably was but first you 64 but I feel confident [TS]

00:08:45   based on my experience to my vast experience dangerous plus that at the [TS]

00:08:50   very least this is not a bit rubbish but at the very least the file system should [TS]

00:08:54   not corrupt itself to the point where I lose data for that reason all the bits [TS]

00:08:59   that are on there still could be randomly floating cells made it could be [TS]

00:09:02   corrupting itself and duplicating that corruption and all my other discs in [TS]

00:09:05   duplicating that corruption into the cloud that is also entirely true [TS]

00:09:08   you know I'm not reach the FSE face Nirvana but I'm waiting patiently I [TS]

00:09:14   found the future recovery Christmas analogy in their web forums said I would [TS]

00:09:18   like some features that you data integrity check now with love it if they [TS]

00:09:22   could support the efforts made it clear to all that stuff from will save [TS]

00:09:25   anything ever comes to that and on the topic of waiting for CFS I also want to [TS]

00:09:29   point out that I was listening to the debug podcast with a rich it's a very [TS]

00:09:33   good show you should be listening to it and number twenty they had they were [TS]

00:09:37   interviewing Ryan Nelsen he was formerly a I believe produkter project manager I [TS]

00:09:43   don't know the difference and I'm I know there's a big difference in that and he [TS]

00:09:46   was formerly on the OS 10 team and he's very briefly talked about John Siracusa [TS]

00:09:52   and file systems and CFS and you know acceptable can't really say a whole lot [TS]

00:09:57   but it sounded like the implication was that it's never gonna happen that [TS]

00:10:04   support on Mac OS 10 will never be worth the incredible effort required to really [TS]

00:10:10   do it properly take he was clearly on the bad side and side up his tank was [TS]

00:10:17   asked about file systems like what's the holdup or whatever he was like well you [TS]

00:10:20   know it works OK and changing it is it would be a difficult transition and the [TS]

00:10:27   advantages of changing that don't currently end like this that you have [TS]

00:10:31   the resources that would take the changes the number of Engineers you need [TS]

00:10:34   on the amount of time you have to deal with customers in the transition phase [TS]

00:10:37   that's a big cost on one side and the con call on the pro side of the colonies [TS]

00:10:41   like all those pros are outweighed by the Commons and he he saw that is being [TS]

00:10:46   the case I don't know in perpetuity but certainly now and you know so that's why [TS]

00:10:52   I can understand that perspective but it's a little bit crazy to have that [TS]

00:10:56   position sort of an absolutist I position because so many things that [TS]

00:11:01   Apple has done and will do in the future are completely counter to that [TS]

00:11:07   philosophy like if you could take all the arguments he had against why Apple [TS]

00:11:10   has not and should not currently switching to file system and apply them [TS]

00:11:14   20 I don't know why should we make an entirely new operating system that's [TS]

00:11:18   barely backward compatible with the previous one like his entire job [TS]

00:11:21   in the existence of his entire project is based on an effort with a tremendous [TS]

00:11:26   number of cons and pros that are many years off in the future and potentially [TS]

00:11:30   only theoretical and may not ever come to pass [TS]

00:11:32   like Pakistan itself is the best example that is just a huge undertaking with [TS]

00:11:37   huge risks and talk about a transition like a potentially company destroying [TS]

00:11:42   transitional period but it had to be done [TS]

00:11:44   you know you can't just keep going with the old in forever and that is entirely [TS]

00:11:47   true major plus you know different though in that the the OS 10 transition [TS]

00:11:53   had to happen because they were in severe pain without you know they're [TS]

00:11:57   they're all OS was really really outdated to a point where they were [TS]

00:12:01   losing a lot because they were losing sales they were losing people they were [TS]

00:12:04   losing developers it would they were in terrible shape of the pain levels hi [TS]

00:12:09   there in this case it seems like the pain level really isn't substantial and [TS]

00:12:14   so what what do you think would ever motivate them to make a big change like [TS]

00:12:18   that the pain levels only smaller proportion to the size of the features [TS]

00:12:22   like the entire OS and a large pain level to go with it and then you have [TS]

00:12:26   something small like the system but I think that the file system is just as [TS]

00:12:29   bad technical shape as the OS was just at the file system is only one small [TS]

00:12:34   part of analysts obviously it's less important but if you just look at that [TS]

00:12:38   particular view like how how big how big of a portion of the entire experience as [TS]

00:12:41   a file system and then how terrible is it forces how big a part of the entire [TS]

00:12:45   experience is the operating system not terribly sad I think probably HFS plus [TS]

00:12:49   more terrible in proportion to its importance than an actress 9-9 was [TS]

00:12:53   terrible put the OS is like all important whereas the file system is a [TS]

00:12:56   minor importance but it's just it's much 49 was just I could be that you know you [TS]

00:13:04   don't have to go to the FSA that's just an incremental step is just another kind [TS]

00:13:08   of regular files maybe you need to skip something entirely to some sort of [TS]

00:13:11   virtualized storage model where everything is memory mapped and it's all [TS]

00:13:16   just one big giant open field of RAM from the perspective of your application [TS]

00:13:19   and everything is solid state behind who knows what they switch right I get to [TS]

00:13:24   change something that you can't you can't go with us forever just it's just [TS]

00:13:28   not tenable the same when it came time for every certain point you reach a [TS]

00:13:32   breaking point you could say we're not at that breaking point now but even now [TS]

00:13:35   I would say as the volumes of data that we deal with coop not having any control [TS]

00:13:39   over like whether that data is good into the future but merely just copying [TS]

00:13:44   around and just you know crossing your fingers and hoping for the best and just [TS]

00:13:47   like sitemap get corrupted you might listen things whatever you can't go on [TS]

00:13:52   that path for ever and all their competitors are ahead of them by varying [TS]

00:13:58   amounts and terms of the file system technology they're using so there is a [TS]

00:14:01   gap there as well as in any other examples like HFS stage of us plus I [TS]

00:14:05   believe that transition for a very incremental gain like it also because [TS]

00:14:09   they had to go because the block size they have enough blocks to make like 32 [TS]

00:14:13   killed by a minimum block size hard drives are getting bigger like it was [TS]

00:14:16   kind of good to give them to kick in the pants do that but they have the same [TS]

00:14:19   exact same problems how do you deal with people not be able to read discs try to [TS]

00:14:23   do an in-place translational thought someone was terrible [TS]

00:14:26   statements plus like these are all problems we know about like and maybe [TS]

00:14:29   even go through again with another architecture transition of a good arm or [TS]

00:14:34   something like these type of transitions are painful but they're also necessary [TS]

00:14:38   so I don't fault someone for saying at various times this came up we decided [TS]

00:14:43   that the pros outweigh the cons but once you say and it's never going to be [TS]

00:14:48   important enough to change that's where I part ways and say no never is a long [TS]

00:14:51   time it's something we'll replace it and if you don't plan for something to [TS]

00:14:55   replace it if you don't take an active role in the eventual replacement piece [TS]

00:14:59   of technology dealing with it will sneak up on you and you will have problems so [TS]

00:15:03   best to plan for it and I think they have been planning for they were looking [TS]

00:15:07   in CFS they went you know they're going so far as to put it up on web pages on [TS]

00:15:10   that website to say it's coming [TS]

00:15:12   didn't work out for you know reasons beyond their control legal issues blah [TS]

00:15:16   blah maybe even technical issues that's fine but that's not an excuse to say [TS]

00:15:20   well we're never gonna file systems again you know you really do just love [TS]

00:15:26   any excuse to talk about systems don't you I do if I was on that podcast I like [TS]

00:15:30   everything he said but when he said like it's never going to be important never [TS]

00:15:35   know like the implication was that the time has come and gone for that but just [TS]

00:15:41   like HFS plus River not each of us plus it's going to have to change and if [TS]

00:15:46   Apple doesn't take a role in changing it there will find themselves in a crisis [TS]

00:15:49   situation I would love you run the show with you know with him at the moment i [TS]

00:15:54   mean the show already the conversation was so long had to split into two [TS]

00:15:57   episodes I would imagine what you know if you went on there have been at least [TS]

00:16:01   three or four [TS]

00:16:03   equipped with everything else I love to hear the details I loved everything he [TS]

00:16:07   said comparing the two cultures between Microsoft and Apple in terms of their [TS]

00:16:11   development systems and everything so great and so to keep moving along [TS]

00:16:16   because we do have lots to talk about another piece of quick follow-up I think [TS]

00:16:19   the last piece about the Synology I'd ask Marco what it was like using the [TS]

00:16:24   Synology for photo photograph storage as a photographer cuz I know a couple [TS]

00:16:28   friends of asked me about it and Mark don't know if I but I'm sorry mark but [TS]

00:16:35   anyway he said I used Lightroom with the library resulting in a Synology for a [TS]

00:16:38   few years and it works just great at first I was even connected to it through [TS]

00:16:41   wifi just a little too slow to be fine so I finally drilled a hole through the [TS]

00:16:45   wall to connect with an Ethernet cable but fYI according to market works great [TS]

00:16:49   so and that's all the follow-up I had actually but one more breathing in this [TS]

00:16:55   analogy with ZFS bit this is yet another reason why you might want to build your [TS]

00:17:00   own CFS 1000 FreeBSD whatever you know build your own ass all the people who [TS]

00:17:05   build their own asses and they were willing to sink the time and do that to [TS]

00:17:09   get it done in exchange for their time and possibly their sandy they will end [TS]

00:17:14   up with a solution that you know how that has the integrity and you can't get [TS]

00:17:18   that if you buy some knowledge of this plus another +1 in the column of [TS]

00:17:22   building your own thing although as the person who sent an email about that one [TS]

00:17:27   of the emails about this topic said [TS]

00:17:28   taking that route trying to build your own nests kind of a time vampire and I [TS]

00:17:33   think that's a good description of it alright this show is brought to you by [TS]

00:17:39   one of our favorite sponsors of all time [TS]

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00:19:46   nine square space.com thanks a lot to Squarespace for support for supporting [TS]

00:19:50   ATP when everybody do that to know credit card with three trials like that [TS]

00:19:55   was like an innovative business innovation back once they start doing it [TS]

00:19:58   but at this point why doesn't everybody knew that is obviously all because at [TS]

00:20:02   some point that everyone knows it's the same reason why why do I don't think [TS]

00:20:05   it's dropped the prices of doing mail-in rebates because they know that some [TS]

00:20:09   percentage of people are going to forget and will make a little bit more money [TS]

00:20:12   that's a pattern like understand the concept of like all forget that it's [TS]

00:20:17   there and i get charged but you hate companies that do that and it seems like [TS]

00:20:20   this would have come around by now that people be like we don't want people to [TS]

00:20:23   have some companies do want you to understand like why companies doing [TS]

00:20:27   that's their business model right my game and even getting up to like you [TS]

00:20:30   know paper our facebook like the kind of like so they'll do this coming but for [TS]

00:20:35   these tanks are dot com start-up kind of cool trendy companies that appeal to [TS]

00:20:39   anybody with advertisers everyone should copy square spaces free travel no credit [TS]

00:20:44   card because there's nothing worse when I go to sign up or something and try it [TS]

00:20:47   out and they wanted credit cards just like hi just most of the time I turn [TS]

00:20:51   back so why would you know just returning customers that everyone should [TS]

00:20:55   company's Christmas that's free advice for all people who are listening to the [TS]

00:20:58   show [TS]

00:20:59   oh yeah I mean even before before they were responsive when I was building the [TS]

00:21:02   site for neutral sponsoring the entire ship but I was looking around me I'd [TS]

00:21:08   heard about scripts based on the podcast everything and that's the No credit card [TS]

00:21:12   trials actually the biggest reason I think why sign up because you're right [TS]

00:21:15   I'm the same way if I see something like a free trial just created entire be [TS]

00:21:20   account your personal information your phone number give us your mother's [TS]

00:21:22   maiden name is your entire credit card number and everything and if you don't [TS]

00:21:26   cancel going to charge you $100 in a week and a year and then talk to some [TS]

00:21:32   like either call someone on the phone and online chat to cancel the service [TS]

00:21:37   Adobe support recently and they love making people in the chat is just had to [TS]

00:21:41   do it I cancelled by Mike gogo wifi on the plane plan to like last time I flew [TS]

00:21:46   somewhere is like you could pay you know some some amount for the flight or if [TS]

00:21:51   you pay less than double that for a whole month to fly here to fly back let [TS]

00:21:56   me do that also known for their student plan and canceled when I get home and [TS]

00:22:00   yeah I'd like to talk to the online chat bot they're not totally about I don't [TS]

00:22:04   think they might as well be and it was a whole ordeal I convince them they try to [TS]

00:22:08   upsell you will keep you on this planet are you sure you want to cancel this [TS]

00:22:12   stuff although pro tip if you buy from go go before you get on the plane it is [TS]

00:22:18   a few dollars cheaper I believe you know I've heard that but I never member do it [TS]

00:22:23   when you can fail together a usable connection for less money that's true [TS]

00:22:28   and the other problem is too late i dont a lot of times I don't know when I [TS]

00:22:32   actually have that available like at the plane might have a 115 took it was [TS]

00:22:38   either on virgin or JetBlue where they usually have the life I but light on one [TS]

00:22:42   flight it was just down leakage is broke and they barely got sorry we don't have [TS]

00:22:46   a good flight and so if I would have bought in advance that I would have to [TS]

00:22:49   go back to that same chat bot person sorry to refund and that'll do it but [TS]

00:22:54   it's it's a pain in the butt to do all that for you just hold onto that code [TS]

00:22:57   for the next five so to keep things moving [TS]

00:23:02   John at the end of the last episode after the episode you got a little upset [TS]

00:23:06   about something you want to explore that little bit more couple that only episode [TS]

00:23:11   I put just a reference he was appointed was 64 bit long pointer so that you can [TS]

00:23:18   you can discuss the storage capacity issue [TS]

00:23:22   yeah how do you feel about the storage capacities in the new iPhone I feel bad [TS]

00:23:25   about it everyone should feel bad about it because it's a bad situation no [TS]

00:23:28   storage shift I'm talking about here is like apple offers three sizes terms of [TS]

00:23:34   flash storage iOS devices and one has 16 the middle one is 32 in the big 12 64 [TS]

00:23:40   and typical Apple fashion had to find some way to put most of their margins [TS]

00:23:45   they put a lot of it into the storage capacity to $6,400 more than 32 I think [TS]

00:23:50   32 cost $100 116 and for anyone who knows anything about pricing of flash [TS]

00:23:55   memory those numbers do not reflect the cost of goods in any rational way you [TS]

00:23:59   know extra 16 gigabytes of flash does not cost $100 in any year so that's fine [TS]

00:24:07   whatever that's how they segment their stuff but for years and years I've been [TS]

00:24:10   buying the middle model 32 gigabytes and I think the very first one ever bought [TS]

00:24:16   was 32 maybe that was the high end at that point and that's kind of like [TS]

00:24:20   barely enough to hold all my stuff but as the years pass I would expect that [TS]

00:24:26   they would shift just as they did once before but they used to be in a gigabyte [TS]

00:24:29   model I think of one of the phones used to be a for ya I remember how small they [TS]

00:24:34   want the original iPhone cuz I wasn't buying reviews for any yeah they have to [TS]

00:24:38   shift line so then the 16 goes away the 32 becomes the smallest 164 is the [TS]

00:24:43   middle one and then 128 is the highest or whatever size you want doesn't have [TS]

00:24:46   to be doubling whatever could be 1632 3250 I don't make a big numbers you I [TS]

00:24:55   just want to see the storage shifted on the Mac on the same thing used to be [TS]

00:24:58   that Max came with you know what whatever minimum amount of RAM it was [TS]

00:25:01   going to be a one megabyte two megabytes 1 gigabyte to you by story about sand on [TS]

00:25:08   the Maximus terrible for years because they would give you so little Rams 1-10 [TS]

00:25:12   the temple Buddha system with two gigs RAM and coincidentally that is the [TS]

00:25:17   minimum configuration of whatever Mac your mind about an hour just beg people [TS]

00:25:20   they're buying back do not buy with it the fault about a brand because Mac OS [TS]

00:25:24   10 with with the minimum support amount of RAM was terrible thresher disc all [TS]

00:25:28   the time especially early versions and the discovery really slow it's like buy [TS]

00:25:32   more RAM and don't buy from Apple because they get you on [TS]

00:25:35   but so here we are I don't know what I mean look at something like PDA but what [TS]

00:25:39   year are we end of the 16 32 64 seems like we're like the third year in a row [TS]

00:25:43   is it the fourth year in a row whatever it is it's way too long and I was hoping [TS]

00:25:48   that this would be the year with a reduced or shifting movers down line but [TS]

00:25:52   they didn't 64 still on top of the line 32 is still the middle and so once again [TS]

00:25:57   my life is probably going to get a new iPhone will talk about that later in the [TS]

00:26:01   show maybe she's gonna end up getting a 32 bit 64 is obscenely expensive than [TS]

00:26:06   $100 over the x200 already paying over the sixteen 16 is too small so it's [TS]

00:26:10   gonna be 32 again and this is another thing that Apple should really move on [TS]

00:26:15   without me at the very least my phone sex is will this is now my number one [TS]

00:26:19   feature for the iPhone sex next year they better do a storage to get you [TS]

00:26:22   can't just keep selling 16 32 and 64 forever kinda like HMS + at a certain [TS]

00:26:26   point it becomes embarrassing like you have you have to change you know maybe [TS]

00:26:30   they won't be able to get 16 / 16 gigabytes of flash anymore because [TS]

00:26:34   normal cell flashlight small in a few years ago the cereal boxes will come [TS]

00:26:38   with 16 gigabytes but I can tell you that my 4 S's 64 gig and I don't think [TS]

00:26:45   the four had that as an option but I'm not a hundred percent sure I believe [TS]

00:26:49   it's correct so it's at least ban was that for us five and five assets three [TS]

00:26:54   years now I mean that you're right it's a long time like I think one years too [TS]

00:26:59   long because from year to year prices go down so one year is probably too I'm [TS]

00:27:03   like ok define your Apple you want to bring every last penny can out of these [TS]

00:27:07   things so maybe hold on for two years but three years now that's that's way [TS]

00:27:10   too long now I say no they have to shift and they also they did add a 128 gig [TS]

00:27:14   iPad I believe last year it was like it was not with the iPad launch it was like [TS]

00:27:18   a few months later right yeah like shifted though that was just like in [TS]

00:27:23   right I added right for like another hundred bucks I think other every [TS]

00:27:27   storage more than $100 if they had one gigabyte or be like well we have a 64 [TS]

00:27:31   gigabyte model and then a $6,500 how little they added to his $100 so maybe [TS]

00:27:39   we have to change the storage tall 200 bucks [TS]

00:27:42   and especially now that the cameras are just getting better and shooting a [TS]

00:27:46   hundred and twenty frame per second 720p video and immersed known as crazy like [TS]

00:27:51   seriously like you're giving us new ways and your iTunes Match and the clouds and [TS]

00:27:56   I hope this new ways to get tremendous amounts of data retina graphics and all [TS]

00:28:01   our games everything onto our iPods and yet the story doesn't changes just [TS]

00:28:05   pressing up against the limits of their iOS device storage as we talk about it [TS]

00:28:09   shows dealing with storage and iOS and backups and photos criminalist stuff is [TS]

00:28:14   already a pain [TS]

00:28:15   applying more pressure to the problem by keeping the storage breslow especially [TS]

00:28:21   when like the people who are price-conscious they're getting sixteens [TS]

00:28:24   and they're not knowing like maybe sixteen will be fine with them but if [TS]

00:28:28   they have any pension for video 16 will not be fine and they'll be sad and [TS]

00:28:31   that's a bad experience for customers in like well you got the 16 because it was [TS]

00:28:35   the cheapest but now you're having a well as experience you know what i mean [TS]

00:28:39   i think i team's matches actually designed to help with this because the [TS]

00:28:42   principal goes you can stream or download on the fly what everyone [TS]

00:28:45   listened to but in general you're completely right hand aaron has a 16 gig [TS]

00:28:50   for us and we haven't talked much about what we're gonna do come Friday and I [TS]

00:28:55   think all three of us should talk about this but I suspect I'm gonna get her [TS]

00:28:59   thirty-two just to future-proof and even though strictly speaking I don't think I [TS]

00:29:04   need to 64 I might do it just because I don't want to regret it later so with [TS]

00:29:09   that in mind let's talk about what we're getting and how we're getting it so [TS]

00:29:13   obviously just told you I think Erin's 832 haven't completely concluded [TS]

00:29:18   obviously she is she hasn't put on this but generally speaking when it comes to [TS]

00:29:22   things like that she just says whatever you think is best and I'm gonna be [TS]

00:29:26   probably getting 60 for both spacecraft both 5 S's [TS]

00:29:30   my plan currently in we'll see what I end up doing is to wake up at three [TS]

00:29:36   eastern and that's when they go on sale [TS]

00:29:39   attempt to buy the two phones from Apple Online cry as I usually do when it [TS]

00:29:45   doesn't work as he usually doesn't and then potentially go back to that Apple [TS]

00:29:48   Store three in the morning and get in line now I'm curious to hear what the [TS]

00:29:53   two you were doing especially you john since he said that that might be getting [TS]

00:29:57   a new one but let's start with Marco well so I am gonna try to get one night [TS]

00:30:03   my flaws though in my usual plan of usually if it's a pre-order yeah wake up [TS]

00:30:09   at that at three in the morning and try it but I'm not as willing to do that I'm [TS]

00:30:14   not as willing to get up and wait on line in front of store for every usually [TS]

00:30:18   just go and get on the line like 20 minutes before the store opens not like [TS]

00:30:24   six hours ahead of time just get where the line is get online payment for the [TS]

00:30:28   store opens and I've always got to get one it's never been a problem I've never [TS]

00:30:32   not gotten what I wanted to hold on now is that at the Fifth Avenue stores that [TS]

00:30:36   have various different stores it was it was mostly the Fifth Avenue the last the [TS]

00:30:41   last one I did here in Westchester at the mall so the Fifth Avenue store [TS]

00:30:48   before and even I got the original iPad at the one of the manhattan stores the [TS]

00:30:54   one that's like around the 14th Street would it wherever that is so [TS]

00:30:59   you know I've never had my fear is always been and I believe it's a whole [TS]

00:31:04   truth it now you know we've heard a lot that the 5s might be supply constrained [TS]

00:31:09   because some of these really advanced components it has that that will [TS]

00:31:12   probably be true but that's true of almost every new iPhone comes out I [TS]

00:31:16   think the five see is the exception this year the five see is helping to dampen [TS]

00:31:21   some of the demand for the 50 S and and that's that's easy to make as they have [TS]

00:31:27   all these components from the fight at making for a year but normally your best [TS]

00:31:33   bet you everybody every single iPhone and iPad releases especially iPhones [TS]

00:31:37   everybody is always like oh I know this one little Verizon store that no one [TS]

00:31:42   knows about I'm gonna go there they have at this plan they gonna go to like this [TS]

00:31:46   little obscure carrier's store that they know about or like a Best Buy where they [TS]

00:31:49   know somebody who works there something like that you know something that's not [TS]

00:31:52   an Apple store and the problem is yet nobody knows about those nobody goes [TS]

00:31:57   there but Apple doesn't usually send any stock or the get like one or two units [TS]

00:32:01   you know so I think you're gonna get one they're pretty low as if you go to one [TS]

00:32:04   of Apple's flagship stores the chances you're getting a pretty good that's why [TS]

00:32:09   we always go to 5th Avenue store exciting if anyone gonna have a lot of [TS]

00:32:13   stock at the Fifth Avenue store yet more than that what if you go to this random [TS]

00:32:17   AT&T and Verizon Verizon store and they get 164 gold and 1 16 gig white and you [TS]

00:32:26   really wanted spacecraft now what exactly not so smart and more are you [TS]

00:32:30   guy exact so yeah I i completely here in the problem that I'm running into with [TS]

00:32:34   us is that you may not know the geography Virginia but suffice to say [TS]

00:32:40   most of the population is in the greater dc-area which is way northern virginia [TS]

00:32:45   which part is the South I wouldn't we're getting into anyone would say not all of [TS]

00:32:52   it spent some time in Dec but anyway the point ants there's virginia beach which [TS]

00:32:59   is way on the coast there's Dec there's Richmond and then there's not a lot of [TS]

00:33:05   civilization outside of that and even charlottesville which is a reasonably [TS]

00:33:09   large city and our west of us they don't have an Apple store yet so for like two [TS]

00:33:14   thirds of the state of Virginia it is it you could pose a legitimate argument [TS]

00:33:18   that my Apple Store is the nearest Apple Store so I'm really worried that if I [TS]

00:33:24   don't get online at like three in the morning there is zero chance that I'm [TS]

00:33:27   gonna get one we'll see what happens [TS]

00:33:29   number of people that that had that get on the line [TS]

00:33:33   relatives who like to know that the time until the opening the store accelerate a [TS]

00:33:38   lot as it as a temperature so you can you know it's similar to the WC keynote [TS]

00:33:43   lines where you can you can get online midnight the night before but you can [TS]

00:33:47   also use go at seven the morning and be not that far back like it's not that not [TS]

00:33:52   that different from if you went to midnight the night before so that's why [TS]

00:33:56   I've always gone you like half hour to an hour before they open in fact the [TS]

00:34:00   iPad 1 launched ivan what I was late and I got there like 15 minutes after they [TS]

00:34:04   open the doors and I still got one and Apple stocks are stores a lot especially [TS]

00:34:09   if you if you're a major city I don't think you have any problems I'll take [TS]

00:34:14   that Apple has Apple stores I don't have any major problems there was one time [TS]

00:34:19   when the iPad 3 came out I was forced to either not get one or get a 64 gig when [TS]

00:34:28   I was looking for a 32 so I chose to just you know I'm already here but I'll [TS]

00:34:33   get 64 so that you know that does happen we're especially with the iPad have so [TS]

00:34:37   many models I guess now I plan to do the same way there so many models so you [TS]

00:34:43   know you have to be prepared that if you want like the 16 gig black one [TS]

00:34:48   you might have some problems if you get to get there late but the reason why go [TS]

00:34:53   through all this on day one is because historically with with these things with [TS]

00:34:58   iPhones and iPad releases generally speaking Apple AAPL has been producing [TS]

00:35:02   these for awhile in a date they produce as much as they can 444 launch weekend [TS]

00:35:06   that way they can not only get a bunch of people's hands and get a bunch of [TS]

00:35:09   buzz when they can announce his big numbers saying on lunch we can we sold [TS]

00:35:13   the right so meanwhile though after lunch we can that whole stock is then [TS]

00:35:20   blown out and they got it like then trickled in men as they're made after [TS]

00:35:24   that so you generally have a much better chance of getting one on launch day than [TS]

00:35:30   you do for the next two weeks it's WAY WAY easier to get one on day one that I [TS]

00:35:35   just to get one day two three four five so that's why I'm actually flying to go [TS]

00:35:41   to a conference I I have to leave for the airport at like 1 p.m. gonna go to [TS]

00:35:48   mall to the Apple store try to get there for the 8 a.m. opening and maybe a [TS]

00:35:53   little before and see if I can get a phone [TS]

00:35:56   get out of there by like eleven the morning which I might I don't know if [TS]

00:36:01   there's a good possibility I might have to just you know obviously any online [TS]

00:36:04   near the front at 11 and I must say sorry I forgot about that time and I [TS]

00:36:12   thought about waking up at 3 to try the online ordering but I i don't have any [TS]

00:36:17   faith that would actually work so I don't know I don't either I suspect I'm [TS]

00:36:22   gonna have to get in the car and if I'm waking up if I'm waking up at like you [TS]

00:36:27   know 622 to go to the store and get on mine also waking up at three would not [TS]

00:36:32   be great for my mood that day but I do plan to get TIFF and I are both great in [TS]

00:36:40   this year I do plan to get the [TS]

00:36:43   64 gig black which is now space grey works I I have expressed my my my so far [TS]

00:36:52   my life for that color and my dislike for the previous slate black iPhone 5 [TS]

00:36:56   had so I'm gonna get the black 64 AT&T to get in the white 64 AT&T [TS]

00:37:02   yourself to 64 on iPhones but not an iPad use that funds when more and we [TS]

00:37:06   actually do take tons of photos and videos so we we have space issues on a [TS]

00:37:13   smaller devices so and AT&T simply because Verizon does not work in our [TS]

00:37:18   house there and we're sticking with AT&T as well we went to AT&T from Verizon [TS]

00:37:23   when I got my iPhone which was my first iPhone 3G s and to be honest we don't [TS]

00:37:28   really have any issues with it for sticking with it as well and I should [TS]

00:37:31   point out that Jason friend of the show Jason Snell point is set in the Chad [TS]

00:37:35   China's getting it the same day that we are this year's so perhaps some of that [TS]

00:37:41   gray market stop yeltsin the bad news is they're gonna get a lot of stock yeah [TS]

00:37:45   that's the good news is but the good news is you won't have a bunch of grain [TS]

00:37:49   market buyers competing for the stock they even higher gonna want if that [TS]

00:37:53   makes any sense at all so that's actually good point down on China but [TS]

00:37:57   what about other countries that are getting on day one I mean China was [TS]

00:38:00   always a big one right but that but I think I think we're still gonna see a [TS]

00:38:04   lot of people who are looking to scalp them yeah I'm sorry so John we haven't [TS]

00:38:08   given you a chance so tell me about what's going on in the circus household [TS]

00:38:12   first thing thinking of you too three in the morning or going to the store when [TS]

00:38:17   it opens again in line the interesting thing that I wanna know I'm on today is [TS]

00:38:20   for the poor suckers at the end of the line which made when they ran out of [TS]

00:38:24   stock car when the stock starting at low what do those people here because I'm [TS]

00:38:29   Arab act like an iPhone four days with all those people heard is I'm sorry all [TS]

00:38:34   I got left is white 64 gigs member that the white 64 gigs were like those were [TS]

00:38:39   the last ones to go we don't know if it's because of the ratios they predict [TS]

00:38:42   or whatever but I cross the entire country was like what's left [TS]

00:38:45   white was the unpopular color and it's always like to super expensive there may [TS]

00:38:48   be like white 16 somewhat 6432 is going you know [TS]

00:38:52   so that's what I would I'm most interested in because we don't get you [TS]

00:38:56   know breakdowns by color or capacity Randy interesting from Apple but we get [TS]

00:39:01   our own little research by everyone going to the Apple store some lunch days [TS]

00:39:04   waiting in lines and at the lines are long enough in the very popular stores [TS]

00:39:08   the people at the ends of those lines start to have to make those hard choices [TS]

00:39:10   like mark tried to get a 64 bit that's all they had left what are the [TS]

00:39:14   undesirables is there one color that like every store has a bunch of goals [TS]

00:39:17   left every store has a bunch of white slept at one capacity that's that's what [TS]

00:39:21   I'm watching for much and that's all we're doing lunch today because I'm not [TS]

00:39:25   waiting on line not ordering anything on the internet I'm not doing anything [TS]

00:39:29   unless they for myself or my wife is going to get up at three in the morning [TS]

00:39:34   to get a phone or anything like that we're probably just gonna wait until [TS]

00:39:38   like stocks go back up like we wait a month maybe have to wait until the new [TS]

00:39:44   year [TS]

00:39:44   any of those things that's fine as far as I'm concerned cuz I'm not getting [TS]

00:39:47   anything and my wife is planning on getting a new 5 ass don't know what [TS]

00:39:54   color she wants she has said that she likes the gold I don't know she makes [TS]

00:39:59   you have been shamed by the Internet into not getting a whole lot how funny [TS]

00:40:05   is it that grew reserve units 45 Sienna gold fund that is funny about pink and [TS]

00:40:11   people like a color that that he shouldn't have it's perfectly fine I [TS]

00:40:16   think the point is not particularly attractive because it's kind of more [TS]

00:40:19   like a dirty chalky like pepto-bismol pink but if you like that color it's [TS]

00:40:24   fine don't think there's any reason to make the golden the other hand I i do [TS]

00:40:27   find something funny about we didn't talk about this I feel like finger on [TS]

00:40:34   why don't know if we're going to start a connection but why why don't like the [TS]

00:40:37   cold one having not seen it in person and the thing that gets me bad [TS]

00:40:41   flashbacks to his back when the Lexus first came out with Alice 400 is the [TS]

00:40:45   first time since there was tired as luxury brand around then that job the [TS]

00:40:50   Japanese makers are making a luxury brands Nissan and Infiniti turned out [TS]

00:40:54   like this and it was gonna have a body but didn't [TS]

00:40:57   Lexus their cars one to make him look fancy so they tried to make them look a [TS]

00:41:02   lot like Mercedes S Class but one thing likes us offered on I think it was like [TS]

00:41:07   all of its initial run of models or maybe just maybe it wasn't even a [TS]

00:41:10   factory thing maybe with a dealer installed thing is that you can get the [TS]

00:41:14   car with gold trim instead of four hundred and like the fake silver plastic [TS]

00:41:22   letters like every car says in the back of it you can get all that stuff in gold [TS]

00:41:26   the little tiny accent lines around the window the size and Highland this gold [TS]

00:41:32   trim was very popular and it was the tax thing in the entire universe I just [TS]

00:41:36   could not stand and I couldn't imagine anybody but otherwise the cars looked [TS]

00:41:39   really distinguish you know a nice-looking and then and it was a lot [TS]

00:41:43   of gold was just a little bit of cool but all the accents were golden look [TS]

00:41:47   terrible to me and that's all I can think of when I see pictures of the gold [TS]

00:41:50   iPhone that is just like you could have got a regular iPhone and you just opted [TS]

00:41:55   for the gold trim and it just makes the whole thing tacky again I say this not [TS]

00:41:59   having seen one in person you don't just told me that there's an arrow in the [TS]

00:42:03   FedEx in the negative space and now I'll never be able to not think ls400 when I [TS]

00:42:08   see a gold iPhone 300 as well I could just stand and again I don't even know [TS]

00:42:13   this is factory option or just like a dealer installed options for Long Island [TS]

00:42:16   because like many things online under attack in this study break in with them [TS]

00:42:19   and I saw this they were everywhere oh yeah I before you tell me about [TS]

00:42:26   something awesome so John so I thought your wife already had a five now now in [TS]

00:42:32   the forest she broke down and got her an iPhone for us was the best when you get [TS]

00:42:37   this but she got she keeps trying to want to like turn trade in her for us [TS]

00:42:41   was like Oh Verizon give me $200 for us I can get a free 5s and and you know [TS]

00:42:46   gazelle will give me just watching all these things I'm like no you can't so it [TS]

00:42:49   would have to keep it goes into the museum and it's mostly because I really [TS]

00:42:55   like that form factor as I mentioned unless I really like how it looks as a [TS]

00:42:59   as an object not so much as a phone that I hold my hand but as an opera Terry [TS]

00:43:03   like it I even like the bumper that you got it so we're definitely keeping down [TS]

00:43:06   I want to add also steven hack and our friend instead pointed out a little bit [TS]

00:43:11   ago that before move on that Apple's been doing this thing with the last [TS]

00:43:15   couple of releases where he wait on the lines of the stores to go around to pass [TS]

00:43:20   a little cards they ask you what you're waiting for how many what model and they [TS]

00:43:24   give you a card represent that model and I think the implication is that they [TS]

00:43:29   have the right number of cars there represent their stock so that they can [TS]

00:43:33   they can then tell you like okay just bring the stake in the front and we [TS]

00:43:37   still have enough that you'll get one [TS]

00:43:39   consequently if you're too far back into line they will be able to tell everybody [TS]

00:43:42   like after this point sorry we're not going to have any more for you by the [TS]

00:43:46   time you get there they'll be gone which is nice actually cause then you won't be [TS]

00:43:49   waiting on line for hours you know for something that they that you end up not [TS]

00:43:55   getting an early in the morning you'll know ok guys at the bottom line what we [TS]

00:43:59   got last year 16 gigabyte white 5s and you know like whenever the unpopular [TS]

00:44:03   ones are on the list to watch the people the backline screaming go by phone today [TS]

00:44:08   I don't want to come back and bite of the people making those choices unless [TS]

00:44:13   you are like Marco about to get on the plane down the stone come back a [TS]

00:44:17   different day because you have to live with your choice unless you must dare [TS]

00:44:20   you to get the bigger model because of their due to get the bigger Milan you [TS]

00:44:23   can actually afford it that's fine but if but if you find yourself getting like [TS]

00:44:28   a 16 or a color that you don't want you will suffer through that you know by [TS]

00:44:31   looking at ugly phone that makes you sad by not being able to fix stuff for you [TS]

00:44:36   know your two-year contract whatever you have so if for whatever reason I was [TS]

00:44:40   forced to choose [TS]

00:44:42   I would choose gold before it to 16 gigs strong language there are you should she [TS]

00:44:48   choose neither [TS]

00:44:49   like put a case on it or send him those anodizing services or something [TS]

00:44:53   16 gig you suffer everyday like every time you take a picture of terry [TS]

00:44:56   download a podcast you suffer you know I should point out that someone is either [TS]

00:45:02   your wife John or masquerading as your wife in the chat trying to enlist the [TS]

00:45:06   chat room to argue with you about how you're running out of space in the [TS]

00:45:09   museum that's what I said but still I do find it also the five is that by the way [TS]

00:45:19   like people I'm surprised no one complained that like you I just been [TS]

00:45:23   awhile complain as $100 to move up to the next door in size yet I'm willing to [TS]

00:45:26   forgo $200 simply to keep an old phone the principle of the matter was just at [TS]

00:45:31   that's that's how my priorities work out what's more important you know what I [TS]

00:45:35   mean like I would have done that I don't want to pay the extra hundred for the 64 [TS]

00:45:40   and by not paying a 264 over the course of many years allows me to afford to [TS]

00:45:44   keep my $200 resale value phone in my museum I really quick so you're not [TS]

00:45:50   gonna take your wife sold for ass and put it on some sort of plan that you're [TS]

00:45:55   going to use it now i cant go back to that screen after using the iPhone 5's I [TS]

00:45:59   screen my touch screen is just the sweetest nicer in all ways I can go back [TS]

00:46:08   and go after long delay would you tell me about something else that's awesome [TS]

00:46:13   absolutely this week we are happy to welcome back another repeat sponsor mail [TS]

00:46:17   route and I talked to them on the phone today and they said route not root so [TS]

00:46:22   that answer my question from last week [TS]

00:46:25   mail route is a hosted service that filters out viruses and spam from email [TS]

00:46:30   and a really advanced way and let me start from the beginning here [TS]

00:46:37   email hosting sucks it just really sucks trying on clothes and [TS]

00:46:42   there are all these things like you know Google Gmail and Microsoft whatever [TS]

00:46:48   their thing is called an you know the thing not just outlook but is it live [TS]

00:46:51   and there's 365 something or other anyway everyone has hosted mail services [TS]

00:46:56   now the problem we're having as as recently ahead on the senate say stuff [TS]

00:47:00   even before that is that a lot of people like us included are not that happy with [TS]

00:47:06   the idea of other people hosting your email anymore or at least these big [TS]

00:47:10   services that are you know a driven and and big enough to the NSA would have a [TS]

00:47:15   deal with them and stuff like that so a lot of people are moving to the center [TS]

00:47:18   an email I've always been a big fan of hosting my email and he not running not [TS]

00:47:22   running I'm not sure myself you know I use fast mail for the hosts but not [TS]

00:47:26   using like one big webmail providers so one of the biggest flaws hosting your [TS]

00:47:31   own email or using one of these places like fast mail is that their spam [TS]

00:47:37   filtering is not nearly as good as somebody like Gmail and if you're on [TS]

00:47:42   your own server you're going to get a ridiculous mass panel to process and [TS]

00:47:47   deal with this is especially relevant people who runs a small companies RIT [TS]

00:47:52   departments where you're hosting email for a lot of people now route by memory [TS]

00:47:56   is a service that you basically write your mail DNS records through then first [TS]

00:48:00   that as an intermediary in front of your mail servers and they filter out of the [TS]

00:48:04   crowd before it gets to you so not only do you have amazing spam filtering from [TS]

00:48:10   your own inbox that you won't be bothered see all these messages but your [TS]

00:48:13   service will be dealing with them so that means so much it means if using a [TS]

00:48:18   hosted service will save a lot of space because a lot of those measures will be [TS]

00:48:21   sitting there in your junk mail folder iraq i've seen your taking up all that [TS]

00:48:24   space if your hosting your own servers you can probably do a lot less of them [TS]

00:48:29   they told me one story where one of the customers had 11 mail servers that were [TS]

00:48:33   running like Full Tilt just really heavy load 11 servers then they switch to [TS]

00:48:38   putting ground for the servers and they went down to three and they barely even [TS]

00:48:41   need the 36 redundancy at that point they estimate that [TS]

00:48:46   well over 90% of email Sony Internet today span so imagine your servers your [TS]

00:48:52   mail service dealing with ninety percent less stuff or even more than that so [TS]

00:48:56   it's a pretty big deal and this is something really cool too so when I [TS]

00:49:01   initially talked to them I said look one of your sampling techniques is great [TS]

00:49:06   listing and acrylics and doesn't work for me and they said no problem we can [TS]

00:49:10   turn off or just your account if you want to be given to turn off a listing [TS]

00:49:15   for certain user names are certain mail boxes under your domain they have this [TS]

00:49:20   entire customization engine below all this they can customize it at your [TS]

00:49:25   request to fit your to fit you the customer's needs so if you want your [TS]

00:49:29   listing off they can do that if you want to turn on or off quarantines and or get [TS]

00:49:33   get a quarantined I just sent every couple hours they can do that too [TS]

00:49:37   they have a whole platform that they've engineered from the ground up to be [TS]

00:49:40   incredibly efficient and incredibly customizable to each customer's needs so [TS]

00:49:46   and they have a ridiculous tracker the guy was telling me today all you know [TS]

00:49:51   all the things he's done before this this companies built by really good [TS]

00:49:56   engineers with a solid track record in the industry they come from Microsoft [TS]

00:50:00   and the places and they really know what they're doing so if your current [TS]

00:50:05   solution is disappearing say if it's Postini forefront of big business [TS]

00:50:10   services or if you don't really want to be pushed on to Google Apps here for you [TS]

00:50:14   to manage your Gmail primary route for free [TS]

00:50:18   migration plan is simple and effective they're very familiar with migrating any [TS]

00:50:22   company or personal account from any services or Adam themselves in front of [TS]

00:50:25   your host travel have for free good a mail route dotnet / ATP thats mail route [TS]

00:50:31   dotnet / ATP that 15 day free trial and you can use by using promo code ATP you [TS]

00:50:38   can get 10% off the entire lifetime of your account to go to mail route / ATP [TS]

00:50:44   ATP to 10% off thanks a lot to know about response on the show that's only [TS]

00:50:49   give a discount for the entire lifetime [TS]

00:50:52   yeah that's right that's some serious stuff before we want to talk about chips [TS]

00:50:58   or do you want to talk about [TS]

00:51:00   post in da stuff ships had a feeling that way the big news today is that a [TS]

00:51:07   lot of people have died 07 and nobody except for like 10 reviewers has iPhone [TS]

00:51:12   5 S's yeah so I know so much more to say about that particular you actually there [TS]

00:51:17   is watching I mean obviously we're going to publish tomorrow so on Thursday but [TS]

00:51:23   already there is this thing on [TS]

00:51:26   mix panel dot com they're measuring iOS 7 adoption like basically by the hour by [TS]

00:51:31   four so as of right now I was seven is already at 19.9 4% so easily 20% [TS]

00:51:39   adoption you know a mere hours I mean what's it been like five or six hours [TS]

00:51:44   since been officially released hours after chilis is already a 20% here and [TS]

00:51:49   then our friend underscore David Smith is also running one at David estimate [TS]

00:51:54   dot org / iOS version stats also running one just among his absence the data that [TS]

00:51:59   we collect from his apps and he's already had it's it's just about nine [TS]

00:52:05   percent now so he's already seeing among people who use his apps already have [TS]

00:52:08   nine percent option which I would assume means they've not only you know [TS]

00:52:13   downloaded the update but have already launched one of the haps in the meantime [TS]

00:52:16   so this is amazing for day one to have to have you know between 10 and 20 [TS]

00:52:24   percent or possibly even more than that [TS]

00:52:27   mere hours after its release will ensure kick out will be easily twice this in [TS]

00:52:33   half as much time this isn't that how it goes it's it's instant adoption across [TS]

00:52:37   the entire party line using four point three right [TS]

00:52:42   John you won't tell me who's having a 70 marino's today kept up with the news but [TS]

00:52:50   there were there was some rumors earlier in the week maybe intel's doing it [TS]

00:52:53   because some people doing back of the envelope calculations I might well give [TS]

00:52:57   us the number of transistors roughly and they gave us the dietary and we can do [TS]

00:53:01   some math and say well the only way they could fit that number of transistors in [TS]

00:53:04   this diarrhea as if I just you know taking proportional scaling for the [TS]

00:53:07   previous thing and it's gotta be 22 or 29 metres in the only person who could [TS]

00:53:12   find that is Intel's maybe in 2007 the 87 i dont no spamming a seven but it's [TS]

00:53:18   kind of it's kind of a shame that and it is that and texted his review of the [TS]

00:53:24   five ass because obviously read everything he said there and it would [TS]

00:53:27   look like smart if I could have said it before he publishes but we didn't record [TS]

00:53:31   them but yeah i i agree with his guests that its 28 nanometers I don't know who [TS]

00:53:37   spamming it I don't think it's Intel but even if it is it's 20 nanometers not a [TS]

00:53:43   big deal I don't think it means to be 20 or trying to do that and I area because [TS]

00:53:47   you can't just do that kind of math like transistor the space transistors take up [TS]

00:53:51   on a chip depends on how they're laid out you know it's not like you can't [TS]

00:53:56   just do a number of transistors per unit area because RAM has a different entity [TS]

00:53:59   than regular I structures like it repeated GPU cores has a different [TS]

00:54:03   density than CoreLogic has a different attitude and then you know the cash [TS]

00:54:07   areas and and and layout vs auto layout and there's so many factors that go into [TS]

00:54:12   how coming transition can fit in Picayune area I don't think you can do [TS]

00:54:17   any math that can prove conclusively this thing is twenty 20 nanometers [TS]

00:54:21   it's probably 28 and event I was finding it I think we would know by now by some [TS]

00:54:27   kind of leak but anyway I don't care of his family at all i care is what the [TS]

00:54:31   feature sizes and I don't think it's 20 or 21 28 and somebody on Twitter and I'm [TS]

00:54:37   sorry I forgot who somebody was replying to talk about this you're saying that [TS]

00:54:42   that there's hasn't really haven't seen any signs of Intel massively ramping up [TS]

00:54:48   their capacity and if they were going to do something like take on the only [TS]

00:54:53   manufacturer of the next iPhone app iphone CPU they would probably have to [TS]

00:54:59   add substantial capacity [TS]

00:55:00   well as intel has been adding fam capacity that appears to be out of [TS]

00:55:07   proportion with how many of their own chips they're gonna makes a lot of over [TS]

00:55:10   the past several years like it looks like Intel might start getting more into [TS]

00:55:14   the business [TS]

00:55:14   camping trips for other people and that's why I call these Apple Intel [TS]

00:55:18   rumors have been swirling around ok well that kind of makes sense for Intel to do [TS]

00:55:22   because it's like hedging their bets like if they can't win this architecture [TS]

00:55:26   war and mobile with with their x86 chips their hedges that hey we're still the [TS]

00:55:32   best fans in the world and that's not a terrible business to be in either [TS]

00:55:35   especially that since they have basically no competitors at this point [TS]

00:55:40   like you know Taiwan Semiconductor is still behind them maybe kinda begin [TS]

00:55:45   their heroes but I don't know that a bad track record there but then I can tell [TS]

00:55:49   us number one with a bullet right so they want their chips to be the best in [TS]

00:55:53   the world and be everywhere but if they can make that work a fallback plan as [TS]

00:55:56   well we're still the best dad in the world and ideally they'd like to be both [TS]

00:55:59   so I'm guessing that no deal has been struck for the a seven and the [TS]

00:56:04   negotiations continue for the eight or whatever [TS]

00:56:07   that that reuses upon the shows the 5s your talks a lot about the a seven [TS]

00:56:12   passenger lot of guesswork like in terms of testing it running software against [TS]

00:56:16   it because knowing this license thing open yet so we don't know for sure but [TS]

00:56:18   it looked it looks like its dual core you know cash measurements as like as [TS]

00:56:24   wel one was trying to estimate pipeline depth sits a lot of guesswork at this [TS]

00:56:28   point but it's pretty much what we expected it to be no no big surprise [TS]

00:56:33   there are actually I think there were a couple surprises when they were doing [TS]

00:56:36   the benchmarking and see that the areas where regressed versus the TSX yet [TS]

00:56:41   especially the GPU is if it's it's different architecture that was a big [TS]

00:56:44   one or even the GPU is like that you know that instead of having a [TS]

00:56:50   full-featured repeat chorus has just lots of shade or hardware but not [TS]

00:56:55   repeating the entire you know it tired GPU core really just repeating the [TS]

00:57:00   shower hardware to give you good performance on shader typings but not [TS]

00:57:03   quite as good for me to try and set up another type of things which is a good [TS]

00:57:07   tradeoff to make in terms of power consumption everything but in an [TS]

00:57:10   artificial benchmarks that show some aggressions and even I think it was some [TS]

00:57:13   benchmarks just like simple scalar math type things where was falling behind you [TS]

00:57:18   like 64 bit issues and stuff like that but that just goes to show that [TS]

00:57:22   synthetic benchmarks like that like to give you a good idea of what's inside [TS]

00:57:27   the ship but are almost meaningless terms of the actual use of reforms [TS]

00:57:31   easyJet because that's exactly what Apple are any cheap designer designing [TS]

00:57:34   for their trying to trade areas that you won't notice and in exchange for lower [TS]

00:57:39   power consumption or using more transitions transistors amor para some [TS]

00:57:43   other chips they're finding where can we cheat where can we where can we actually [TS]

00:57:47   regressive use less and when your hardware and in exchange for that put [TS]

00:57:51   that time energy resources die area power consumption into another part of [TS]

00:57:56   the trip to make it faster and that's what you want it to be if they had been [TS]

00:58:00   like a shrink to 20 nanometers and then you can have you taken you to we don't [TS]

00:58:03   have to do any tradeoffs working at lower power going to get everything and [TS]

00:58:07   it'll be faster in all possible ways but they seminars on that ship [TS]

00:58:10   especially since they went up to 64 bits at the same time so we're saying is chip [TS]

00:58:15   designers like the mp3 Kodak oh you can't hear that many ways to screw it [TS]

00:58:18   let's cut it out in this case it is because like the name made tradeoffs [TS]

00:58:22   it's pretty amazing that you know what they've been able to achieve getting [TS]

00:58:27   like more or less double real-world performance and several bike and user [TS]

00:58:32   application areas while not being a massive sharing and not using like [TS]

00:58:38   double the power and you know like it's a it's a pretty amazing balancing acts [TS]

00:58:42   to get such a huge performance boost but almost no downside is more power-hungry [TS]

00:58:47   the ASICS they have to compensate but after giving it a bigger battery and it [TS]

00:58:51   still comes in a little behind a few hours usage areas then they explained [TS]

00:58:56   overall too pretty it's pretty amazing achievement that what they've done with [TS]

00:59:00   a 70 yeah I mean like the more special reading that awesome Atlantic review the [TS]

00:59:05   more we learn about this chip the the more impressive than it looks and [TS]

00:59:09   performance gains are incredible and you know we look like I'm looking into you [TS]

00:59:15   know what are the differences between the 32 and 64 bit instruction sets out [TS]

00:59:20   and you know it's not when when the desktop CPUs went through this and he [TS]

00:59:25   basically took intel's instruction set and just extended it added to it to make [TS]

00:59:30   it work and to make it backwards compatible the arm VA instructions that [TS]

00:59:34   does not edit it actually a whole different instruction set and the chip [TS]

00:59:38   just switches mode between the two and it can switch modes without much of a [TS]

00:59:42   penalty and implement both and you know in the future doesn't have to but right [TS]

00:59:48   now they will for backward compatibility and that's just incredible in to have [TS]

00:59:52   this kind of technology in a mobile chip that is performing as well as desktop [TS]

00:59:58   did like three or four years ago for five years ago [TS]

01:00:01   forming like to those kind of levels and being able to have these advanced [TS]

01:00:06   features like 64 bit and hardware accelerated encryption instructions and [TS]

01:00:12   the end 224 instruction sets I can switch between on a whim like that's [TS]

01:00:15   that's just awesome like dat this is really advanced stuff [TS]

01:00:19   well there there is a one equivalent in the x86 x64 transition and that's [TS]

01:00:24   floating point stuff where the old x86 its tax base floating point and the x86 [TS]

01:00:29   64 did all that stuff with like its own you know [TS]

01:00:31   instructions and everything and so yeah the stack-based still supported but [TS]

01:00:36   every compiling the targeted x86 64 was like don't ever generates take place [TS]

01:00:40   following points and so there was a kind of a similar instance where it's like to [TS]

01:00:45   instruction sets for floating-point calculations and as soon as you didn't [TS]

01:00:48   have to use the open anymore Kapali stopped admitting that code and you got [TS]

01:00:51   and so is kinda like the same thing where you have the the armed army for [TS]

01:00:56   whatever the instructions that is the old 32137 that one is like off to the [TS]

01:01:02   side and like that would just turn off the hard way when it's not in use and [TS]

01:01:05   ideally it will never being used because no one was emitting code for a sec [TS]

01:01:09   Department think we'll ever in the code for that because it's an entirely [TS]

01:01:12   different structures that while same thing I X 86 no one is putting out [TS]

01:01:16   stacked whistling point koreamore and so even though that area needs to be in the [TS]

01:01:19   chip that only to make good doesn't have to be fast can be powered down most of [TS]

01:01:22   the time so that's one small corner of that transition is like the armed [TS]

01:01:27   transition but that's a little it's a little bit easier to do what they did [TS]

01:01:31   like make it backward compatible with armed 32 while kind of having a unique [TS]

01:01:36   combination of 64 because as weird as the as the 32 bit ARM architecture was [TS]

01:01:43   it is nowhere near as we are doing business as well as much younger it had [TS]

01:01:48   a lot of a lot of the advantage of hindsight and its design and it's risky [TS]

01:01:52   it's not that says construction said we have to deal with these crazy things [TS]

01:01:56   that blow up into a million microcode instructions on the real architecture [TS]

01:02:01   the chip is made I will say though you know it's [TS]

01:02:04   and looking at you know various langston and supporting things it really does [TS]

01:02:09   look like you know going back for a second that that Intel is almost [TS]

01:02:12   certainly not having this that it's almost definitely Samsung 20 nanometer [TS]

01:02:16   but it's worth talking about why that would be a big deal if Intel was [TS]

01:02:21   fabulous using say you know what they had 22 for their views now or 2022 [TS]

01:02:29   you know if there if there that kind of feature size then they and assuming that [TS]

01:02:36   they struck a deal with Apple where they wouldn't have anyone elses mobile chips [TS]

01:02:41   for a couple years then Apple could basically be like an entire generation [TS]

01:02:46   or two ahead of what everyone else in the smartphone and tablet space was [TS]

01:02:51   doing with regard to power efficiency so they could they could have like either [TS]

01:02:55   you know twice the CPU battery life or they could have twice the performance [TS]

01:02:58   the same battery life you know that that kind of level of of a difference there [TS]

01:03:03   and they could maintain that as long as they had Intel is there any fracture and [TS]

01:03:07   no one else was having intelligent manufacture it's a really big deal with [TS]

01:03:11   the problem of the scenario probably the reason has happened in detail would [TS]

01:03:15   rather that Apple use its x86 spaceships tablets and phones and that is not right [TS]

01:03:21   now and tells not ready to give up on that [TS]

01:03:23   nor should they be because if you look at the Antec benchmarks they've got Bay [TS]

01:03:27   Trail and there were just there Atom processor and a tablet process are not [TS]

01:03:29   fun process is so it's not really a fair fight but it's not a desktop processor [TS]

01:03:34   right and Bay Trail matches the a seven and beats in a few benchmarks Granite [TS]

01:03:39   Bay trails shipping and again it's a tablet instead of a phone thing but the [TS]

01:03:42   question is how how good is Intel getting and making the low-power x86 [TS]

01:03:47   parts that could conceivably be in a tablet or phone the answer is they're [TS]

01:03:51   getting really close because it's amazing a seventy we think it's a [TS]

01:03:54   wonderful and everything [TS]

01:03:55   intel has a chip that's not out yet but will be out soon [TS]

01:03:59   that gives it a run for its money in tablet if not in phones and Intel by [TS]

01:04:03   gamblers nothing if not determine like this is not the end of line that finally [TS]

01:04:07   got religion about low-power chips and their family target think so once Intel [TS]

01:04:11   turns its attention to a market kind of like how they lost track of the ball [TS]

01:04:14   with the networks market that architecture in the pending for us and [TS]

01:04:17   chasing clock speed once they put their mind to it and came out with the core [TS]

01:04:20   architecture like they just live right way so Intel is currently turning the [TS]

01:04:25   company around and saying we need to make chips that can fit in phones [TS]

01:04:29   and tablets and you can be sure they're going to Samsung apple and everybody [TS]

01:04:32   else is saying here is our road map in 23 years we're going to have you know 14 [TS]

01:04:38   an immediate shipping its gonna have this power would never compare that to [TS]

01:04:41   your internal road map map all we think you should put x86 and I guess the flip [TS]

01:04:45   side of things we talked about like oh 64 bit ARM chips they're gonna put them [TS]

01:04:47   in a MacBook Air the flip side is intel says nononono Apple don't put ARM chips [TS]

01:04:52   in your MacBook Air for x86 chips and all your iOS devices and you know that's [TS]

01:04:58   not crazy like there is an appeal to that which is the same instruction set [TS]

01:05:03   on a Mac and iOS like that's good right everyone likes that and if Intel can say [TS]

01:05:07   no one is going to be able to match the power and performance are going to have [TS]

01:05:11   two or three years out because look at this roadmap that's credible coming from [TS]

01:05:15   Intel like given their track record you can't forget about that Apple always be [TS]

01:05:19   able to do something better with its own ARM architecture course Apple likes [TS]

01:05:23   control its destiny more than Intel let it controls destiny so that is an [TS]

01:05:26   ongoing negotiation I'm sure but I'm not I'm not writing them off I'm not writing [TS]

01:05:30   off x86 or Intel in this space until I see until I see what they have to offer [TS]

01:05:35   like they're just beginning to be competitive but seeing that Bay Trail [TS]

01:05:38   those Bay Trail numbers up against the a seven let you know that I go by the way [TS]

01:05:43   and tell us out there and they're a giant 800 pound gorilla and they know [TS]

01:05:46   what the heck they're doing and maybe not this year [TS]

01:05:49   don't worry about it this year but next year like they should be on your radar [TS]

01:05:52   so that that's what I'll be watching for that's the flip side of the MacBook Airs [TS]

01:05:57   with 64 bit ARM CPUs in them story if you like that we're gonna come to the [TS]

01:06:03   point where we're just waiting for this marriage like we did in the United [TS]

01:06:06   States between up on Verizon doesn't does a question makes sense [TS]

01:06:11   Apple already married Intel for the max and whatever is waiting for now is the [TS]

01:06:15   divorce like they're going to Apple's gonna make arm CPUs ever everything like [TS]

01:06:21   that but we have to see how this turns out like it's not a slam dunk that [TS]

01:06:25   Intel's gonna have chips that beat everything that happened to us they're [TS]

01:06:27   just they're just barely starting to be competitive now an x86 does have a [TS]

01:06:31   disadvantage being disgusting and all [TS]

01:06:33   even 64 bit various compared to the arm things and Apple does is a control freak [TS]

01:06:38   and does really prefer doing getting an architecture license from arms and doing [TS]

01:06:42   everything sells a boyfriend they could just do everything themselves and get in [TS]

01:06:45   till the fat them with their super awesome fats that are you know in two or [TS]

01:06:48   three years time beforehand and meteorite and Intel x86 everywhere [TS]

01:06:53   except something that they can only control to some degree or equivalent to [TS]

01:06:57   a large degree than arm so we are in a transitional period and I would love to [TS]

01:07:03   be in the multi-year long boardroom meetings between those two companies [TS]

01:07:06   trying to negotiate how this is going to turn out to be actually very interesting [TS]

01:07:10   I will point out though before you leave this topic that they trail CPUs Intel [TS]

01:07:16   has not only are not yet in in a phone compatible power envelope but I just [TS]

01:07:23   don't get PDF and they are using 2010 Amir so the idea that Intel is only able [TS]

01:07:29   to basically match day seven in most in most ways in performance there were only [TS]

01:07:34   able to match it not beat it using this entire generation ahead of process [TS]

01:07:41   technology and using more power than a seven that is that significant that's a [TS]

01:07:48   that's a substantial difference they used to be even crappier like if you [TS]

01:07:51   look at the tills previous efforts to do anything low-power like they've come a [TS]

01:07:57   really really long way and I guess they're not there yet but I wouldn't [TS]

01:08:01   count them out like you then they should be doing better than they are they [TS]

01:08:05   should have been a four years it's like Intel what's your problem like wanted to [TS]

01:08:08   make a decent mobile chip like well we have these these Atom processors and [TS]

01:08:12   they're kinda good and cheap PCs like no no we can attain a phone or tablet ok [TS]

01:08:17   we'll make something like they've just making crap they haven't really be [TS]

01:08:20   putting their a team on it and so now they're finally waking up and there are [TS]

01:08:24   other issues and Terms doing system-on-a-chip services individual [TS]

01:08:27   CPUs that Intel needs to gain expertise and so there is a bit of a learning [TS]

01:08:31   curve there but you know give their roadmap and second text on a couple of [TS]

01:08:37   articles as well I can look at the roadmap three chips down what intel says [TS]

01:08:41   they're going to have [TS]

01:08:42   on the low end on the high end and how they kind of start converging into a [TS]

01:08:46   continuum of chips to go all the way from phone power and love is always open [TS]

01:08:50   to you know Mac Pro power envelopes and how Intel sees eventually unified [TS]

01:08:54   architecture that spans that range and you can't you can't count them out you [TS]

01:08:59   can I do I don't look at those slides and and saw forget it happened because [TS]

01:09:04   if you would say the same thing when they were when they had a painting for [TS]

01:09:07   us and look like he was kicking their butt in the shoulder the core [TS]

01:09:09   architecture thing whatever I'll believe it when I see it well they did it there [TS]

01:09:13   so I I have faith in Intel still don't know why I would have severe doubt that [TS]

01:09:20   Apple would ever give up control again for Apple to have done the a seven and [TS]

01:09:25   the Holy series you know have to have all the oldest ship design house for [TS]

01:09:30   making exclusive chips that you know Intel can go sell their trips to Sam's [TS]

01:09:34   song and everyone else they don't care to have for Apple to have exclusive [TS]

01:09:38   chips they're totally under their control and they can have pretty much [TS]

01:09:42   anyone they want you know within a very very small group of people who are [TS]

01:09:46   capable of it but they can have anybody they want manufacture it they can set [TS]

01:09:49   their own schedule for the most part they can they can you know get a lot of [TS]

01:09:53   price gains by by being the designers and basically just using somebody else's [TS]

01:09:57   I get done that I I don't see you know it's different the max in the max apple [TS]

01:10:03   Holly sells any Macs relatives number of iOS devices they sell the Mac business [TS]

01:10:08   they can and there's no really good alternative in the Mac and PC space [TS]

01:10:12   besides until right now but you know for them to give up such an important [TS]

01:10:18   component to go backwards in in the direction they've they've been trying so [TS]

01:10:23   hard to go to switch to someone else's processor and and system-on-a-chip and [TS]

01:10:28   and to let than anybody else saw the exact same chip in their own phones I [TS]

01:10:33   don't I don't see Apple about that that's all part of the negotiation who's [TS]

01:10:36   to say that Intel will let anyone else by that chip like would not be part of [TS]

01:10:40   the negotiation and the other thing about all I have anybody so far they've [TS]

01:10:44   been having Samsung fed them which is not good I like Apple does not want sam [TS]

01:10:49   that wants to know what I want semiconductor 22 Feb [TS]

01:10:52   and they're not online yet right so it's it's it's an uncomfortable situation for [TS]

01:10:58   everybody everyone's got something to offer and everyone's got something they [TS]

01:11:01   don't want to give up right Apple and Samsung have someone else had their [TS]

01:11:05   stuff they want to retain complete control but they would also like to be [TS]

01:11:07   finding things that you know competitive or superior levels and so maybe an Intel [TS]

01:11:14   wants to get into this space so maybe in telling us how can we will will find [TS]

01:11:19   your arm chips for you and the next year you promised to buy our shit but will [TS]

01:11:23   only sell you the system-on-chip we won't sell to anyone else it'll be [TS]

01:11:25   exclusive contract provided you can provide such and such a volume like it's [TS]

01:11:30   the business deals to be made here there are you know sort of win-win scenarios [TS]

01:11:33   for Apple and Intel us they could just figure out the right balance of control [TS]

01:11:39   versus money versus guaranteed sales vs Aliens vs not helping our competitors [TS]

01:11:43   and you know the whole nine yards and and if Apple won't talk until is truly [TS]

01:11:47   talking to Samsung as well and everybody else so it's it's a delicate dance [TS]

01:11:51   between these giants in the phone business to see who is you know everyone [TS]

01:11:55   negotiating for a superior position down the line i think is most cool about all [TS]

01:12:02   this though is that this mobile space is interesting from the hardware straight [TS]

01:12:05   to the software it's not like there's any part of this ecosystem that's boring [TS]

01:12:10   everything is in flux everything is is moving very quickly and it's it's a lot [TS]

01:12:17   of fun to watch [TS]

01:12:18   that's for sure much better than the PC space where it was just like Windows an [TS]

01:12:22   Intel for so long and named him kinda made interesting briefly before intel [TS]

01:12:25   Smart [TS]

01:12:26   alright and with that let's wrap up this week thanks a lot to our two sponsors [TS]

01:12:31   Squarespace and mail route see you next week [TS]

01:12:36   now this show as they didn't even mean to begin accidental accidental John [TS]

01:12:48   Casey [TS]

01:12:52   death [TS]

01:12:57   and you can tell thats Casey list and a team Marco [TS]

01:13:36   titles are lacking today who aren't that funny today I guess no swimming in 16 [TS]

01:13:45   games michael's pretty good just got a cyber the other space after the 16 yet [TS]

01:13:49   number space Wow don't put anything like that in 25 podcast titles with strange [TS]

01:13:55   characters and mangled I'm so disappointed with the RSS feed readers [TS]

01:14:00   now that I have an RSS feed in which you know it but anyway [TS]

01:14:08   complaints they are your feet is broken and my shit is so not broken everything [TS]

01:14:13   shows up everything shows up as one giant paragraph at the field has tags on [TS]

01:14:18   it it validates invalid Atom feed direct descendants of the items tagged or the [TS]

01:14:26   encoded as HTML I'm using namespace support and Adam are you can say this in [TS]

01:14:32   the item this section and I'm going to tell you now is you know HTML names I'm [TS]

01:14:37   not making this stuff up and doing [TS]

01:14:38   following the standards of the problem the problem is the readers don't follow [TS]

01:14:42   the standards the readers are like sort of you know how fast heuristic kind of [TS]

01:14:47   like that they're not following the standard the standard provides a way for [TS]

01:14:50   you to put HTML inside there without escaping it because that's the other [TS]

01:14:53   thing you can do like ok well understood escape percent Lt semicolons all over [TS]

01:14:57   the place right then you have to order the readers not correctly on escaping [TS]

01:15:01   that right so I was trying to avoid them by saying look I make it easy for you [TS]

01:15:04   there's a way in the atom standard to put HTML in there and have actually [TS]

01:15:09   gmail tax and tell you know that small namespaces used to be a you were looking [TS]

01:15:14   into Atom feed now you're about to look at HTML and alternation houses P tags [TS]

01:15:17   and things just swallowed up in don't show the Brixton paragraphs some of them [TS]

01:15:23   do something we did find other ones don't just a constant struggle to find [TS]

01:15:28   the authors of these feed reader applications sending the Euro my feed [TS]

01:15:32   tell them that it's valid tells me that there's thing should rendered correctly [TS]

01:15:36   and then never hear from you how does that work out when you do that [TS]

01:15:39   occasionally like there was a couple bugs that were easier to find didn't [TS]

01:15:43   have to do with formatting [TS]

01:15:45   I think the reader guy I sent to the stuff that is like I found out that I [TS]

01:15:49   think it was like actually subscribing they click on the little linked to [TS]

01:15:52   subscribe and they couldn't handle it because my subscription things didn't [TS]

01:15:57   have my phone and extension some other crazy things there [TS]

01:16:01   their URL parsing did recognize . Co as a domain specifier and so would treat [TS]

01:16:08   the entire thing is a search string just I don't even know you look at your feet [TS]

01:16:13   yeah but the way I had no idea you could even run it through Adam validator [TS]

01:16:18   America you're probably have two problems first of all you're linking [TS]

01:16:22   your horses RSS feeds actually Adam thats against all standards second of [TS]

01:16:27   all atoms terrible that's your problem right there [TS]

01:16:32   see the reason why Adam is terrible to parse is not like parse the XML but I [TS]

01:16:38   guess you know the reason why it's terrible to interpret the tree that is [TS]

01:16:40   parsed is that you can do a million different things and Adam and a lot of [TS]

01:16:46   it like Adam RSS was designed by a couple of crazy people and so it's [TS]

01:16:51   really simple and it works and it's really easy to deal with Adam was [TS]

01:16:55   designed by a committee in response to limitations in our success so it was [TS]

01:17:01   doomed to be is ridiculous bloated thing that could encompass every possible [TS]

01:17:05   thing you ever want to do with anything in a feed but Adam and I don't have a [TS]

01:17:08   close standard like it's not like you have to interpret eight thousand [TS]

01:17:11   different date formats like Adam finds with the format is and that's all he [TS]

01:17:15   just follow the atom standard you're fine that's why I picked it for somebody [TS]

01:17:19   implementing like you know feed parser following the standard first of all you [TS]

01:17:23   have to have a function of like weird fuzzy logic exceptions to deal with [TS]

01:17:26   these aren't properly formed but second of all dealing with Adam it's just such [TS]

01:17:31   a pain because there are so many different possibilities like to say all [TS]

01:17:34   right well you know what what is the date that I should display for this [TS]

01:17:38   article was like 16 different ways to represent dates and they all have [TS]

01:17:41   slightly different semantic meanings and some people have you know one or two of [TS]

01:17:44   them some people have none of them some people have these three but one of the [TS]

01:17:47   only sixty years in the future for some reason you deal with that but thats RSS [TS]

01:17:50   you're describing how to RSS there there are a lot fewer value types like there [TS]

01:17:56   is a lot simpler [TS]

01:17:58   rupture Adam tries to represent every possible thing it's it's very it's very [TS]

01:18:04   complex as a result and and the possible thus the range of possible situations [TS]

01:18:11   and meaning they can be encompassed by Adam is so much bigger that in practice [TS]

01:18:15   that leads to not only much harder to write partners for it but a lot more [TS]

01:18:19   likely errors if you're if you are relying on it being parsed properly more [TS]

01:18:27   wild west and the like I'm not using esoteric you can look at that and filled [TS]

01:18:32   with your eyes and understand every single piece of it like it's not I'm not [TS]

01:18:35   I'm not even doing a set of attachments are you a very simple straightforward [TS]

01:18:39   and there is no ambiguity there's no date in it could possibly be in any [TS]

01:18:43   other format and so it appeals to me and no I don't think the fact that external [TS]

01:18:47   links as RSS has anything to do with this is so like this perfectly [TS]

01:18:51   represents you vs me right here [TS]

01:18:53   like you are the Atom feed and I'm the RSS parser like I mind like Matic and [TS]

01:19:02   simple and you know not technically that correct but it just works and you're [TS]

01:19:07   like you're like well what about this RSS feeds have parsing RSS feeds have [TS]

01:19:13   tons of problems all the time because people produced junk cars I'm totally a [TS]

01:19:17   proponent of don't put out John can make people have to hand it to mean that's [TS]

01:19:22   the whole thing of like co-stars laws like the liberal when you consume [TS]

01:19:25   conservative output and like parsers that died as soon as they find something [TS]

01:19:29   valid responses that just stumble along and I think html5 is the correct [TS]

01:19:34   approach which is done immediately die if you encounter any error but document [TS]

01:19:39   your error handling precisely so that everyone can render the same way and I [TS]

01:19:43   think the web has proven the data model is the correct one because the old one [TS]

01:19:46   was writing crap and then parses doing [TS]

01:19:48   they want was untenable and the one where you don't show anything on a page [TS]

01:19:52   of a single thing is broken it's also untenable and the correct solution is to [TS]

01:19:56   have a well-defined standard all the way down to how you handle air condition so [TS]

01:20:00   that everybody can implement their partisan exactly the same way that don't [TS]

01:20:04   blow up when you have an error but the whole page still the same and so i i [TS]

01:20:07   think it's perfectly possible to implement Adam parts using it right [TS]

01:20:11   before I don't [TS]

01:21:02   hopefully to the three of us will have new phones next week and all of our [TS]

01:21:08   wives bill ya gonna get hurt until they come back into its boring that really [TS]

01:21:17   was hijacked I P thats how you absolutely she's not in the room with me [TS]

01:21:29   is another part of the house [TS]