The Accidental Tech Podcast

39: Desperation Mode


00:00:00   alright I'm gonna use the most interesting to do that for the after [TS]

00:00:02   show now it's not a good idea but it is good to say so here it was christmas at [TS]

00:00:10   the circus household already yeah the tiny little package arrived that await a [TS]

00:00:15   lot I was very proud of that seemed very dense [TS]

00:00:19   it really shows how little Marco cared about the old candles that he said he [TS]

00:00:26   packed them together by stacking them one on top of it they were their own [TS]

00:00:30   packing material nothing in between them know like bubble wrap tissue paper you [TS]

00:00:36   know just put the crappiest one on top just a bunch of candles and other [TS]

00:00:41   e-readers jam together into a solid brick wall they stacked very well yeah [TS]

00:00:47   the damn candle one which is wedge-shaped everything else that's [TS]

00:00:50   really what I think they managed to like the original kinda like the back cover [TS]

00:00:54   had come off in transit but the game was broken on it and the Kindle Touch has a [TS]

00:01:00   thing in the upper left corner where its damage to that was already there what [TS]

00:01:07   kind of things like a small and tiny scratch on the screen there may be [TS]

00:01:11   permanently black takes a while now it's bigger than its like someone took [TS]

00:01:17   someone took a flathead screwdriver on pink and Genesis screens like a little [TS]

00:01:21   quick it's not big its like it's no that's new [TS]

00:01:25   sorry what are they way the candles came up at the table the kids they're always [TS]

00:01:33   candles going out and surprising things happen because Marco and I mentioned I [TS]

00:01:38   put this insurance market has nothing to say about that it's not it's not that [TS]

00:01:41   exciting and you know it's a bunch of old can just take them for them up into [TS]

00:01:44   the attic used since the two surprising that happen [TS]

00:01:46   won the first thing my son said when he saw these things is kind of a Kindle [TS]

00:01:51   Fire Kindle Fire I didn't show him that there was a Kindle Fire in this type of [TS]

00:01:56   things but but he quickly surmise than the giant Shattock of things that I said [TS]

00:02:00   our candles one of them might be Kindle Fire and that's the one that he want [TS]

00:02:04   interesting [TS]

00:02:05   before any more turned on so that means that the Kindle Fire has good brand [TS]

00:02:09   recognition among young kids whose parents don't want them to have a really [TS]

00:02:12   expensive iPad that's really interesting though he apparently didn't know enough [TS]

00:02:17   about them to recognize it if you're going to have any Kindle Fire the one I [TS]

00:02:20   sent you which is the very first one is by far the worst when you can possibly [TS]

00:02:24   the biggest thing is it doesn't really make any sense because our our iPad 2 is [TS]

00:02:29   basically the kids I pets too and my daughter doesn't really use the iPad 2 [TS]

00:02:33   it's basically his iPad 2 so he's sort of has an iPad to use moralist whenever [TS]

00:02:38   he wants and he still wanted to be his his right and the second reaction is my [TS]

00:02:43   daughter said Oh can I have a Kindle and I said yes you can she said yeah there [TS]

00:02:50   you go [TS]

00:02:51   Kindles I was trying to decide which one to give her like you know we're going to [TS]

00:02:56   the book signing as you learn to read and stuff like that my son already has [TS]

00:03:00   an oldie in Canada we had that he reads on that she's just starting to read and [TS]

00:03:05   I decided to actually give her the Kindle Touch because as anyone with [TS]

00:03:07   young kids knows you put it in on from the touch screen immediately and why [TS]

00:03:11   wouldn't they like anything but you can't touch screen on it obviously [TS]

00:03:13   broken and sell the Kindle Touch actually can't touch screen I kind of [TS]

00:03:17   regret it because sometimes you want to use your finger to trace like when [TS]

00:03:20   you're reading the words and that doesn't really work that well in a [TS]

00:03:22   kennel touches you touch you know change the page or whatever but trying to give [TS]

00:03:27   her one that you had to use like the cursor controlled or something to do [TS]

00:03:29   books I think there would be more difficult than the Kindle Touch has [TS]

00:03:33   fewer like buttons and things you can bump on the edge of the next light turn [TS]

00:03:35   pages so that you made a bunch of people happy with although I saw my son he [TS]

00:03:40   couldn't have the Kindle Fire he's already got his reading Kindle has got [TS]

00:03:46   an iPad that israel needs now but I was excited by the arrival of candles in the [TS]

00:03:51   house I first heard like when when the Kindle Fire came out was it two years [TS]

00:03:55   ago now I first heard this massive common refrain heard from people which [TS]

00:04:05   was that they were men of course they're nerds on the internet and its way to [TS]

00:04:10   predominantly male still and they were men who were buying Kindle Fire's to [TS]

00:04:16   give their wifi tablet which it if you think about the quality of the Kindle [TS]

00:04:21   Fire not only is this a fairly derogatory things to do but I wonder if [TS]

00:04:28   any of those caused marital problems I mean it is such an incredibly terrible [TS]

00:04:35   device I i cant imagine that the HDX whatever it's called I haven't noticed [TS]

00:04:42   any better I've seen it and it's like they're getting way better I can you [TS]

00:04:46   compare the Kindle Fire sent me compared to the new one is like night and day [TS]

00:04:48   like the new one is not embarrassing anymore the only thing that i think is [TS]

00:04:51   embarrassing but the new one is externally asymmetrical which I find [TS]

00:04:55   incredibly offensive way but it is in what direction like if you're a portrait [TS]

00:05:02   orientation and you're gripping it one-sided sticker than the other it's [TS]

00:05:06   like weird trapezoid back it's it's it's pretty origami style kind of case that [TS]

00:05:11   comes with it makes sense in the context of the case that the thing like slots [TS]

00:05:15   into the case because it's kind of like a a tapered trapezoid on the back it's [TS]

00:05:21   weird but it bothers me way more than it should keep the back of the things right [TS]

00:05:26   but I do I don't want it I want it to be symmetrical thing that I hold it just [TS]

00:05:30   seems wrong to me but but the screen is really really nice the interfaces no [TS]

00:05:35   longer disgustingly laggy [TS]

00:05:38   if you want to give somebody something that all they're gonna do on it is [TS]

00:05:41   watching Amazon Instant Streaming Video [TS]

00:05:44   and read books over Thai post will be fine I wouldn't buy it for anyone wants [TS]

00:05:51   to use applications obviously but they've got they've come a long way [TS]

00:05:54   that's good I mean that had nowhere to go but up things like that so I couldn't [TS]

00:06:00   I mean I'd seen them when they were new but it's like this is this you just [TS]

00:06:03   terrible imagine likes it there so many people bought in that because it was it [TS]

00:06:10   was sold as a as like the premium Kindle like if you wanted to eat Kendall you [TS]

00:06:15   consider upgrading to this and if you're reading on it it is in almost every way [TS]

00:06:20   substantially worse than the Ian can and it's just so many people thought that as [TS]

00:06:27   an upgrade but that was that probably not turn out well you could fend off [TS]

00:06:31   muggers with it I guess and the back of it is that nice textured plastic [TS]

00:06:36   rubberized off I like it and that's alright but like its so have you can [TS]

00:06:40   someone and forget it whereas the ear candles like they're so light now that I [TS]

00:06:44   cried like a piece of paper so much nicer yeah alright let me take her first [TS]

00:06:48   sponsor break this episode is sponsored by our friends at file transporter go to [TS]

00:06:54   File transporter dot com to learn more and you can use coupon code ATP for 10% [TS]

00:06:59   off any transport you buy from them so what is file transporter transporter is [TS]

00:07:04   by some people who who were Drobo left got so good at doing this thing called [TS]

00:07:10   transfer the dribble bottom again and a tobacco trip so transporter is your own [TS]

00:07:16   private cloud storage solution it is it hard drive enclosure that you own and [TS]

00:07:23   control and there's no monthly fees you buy this thing up front and a new owner [TS]

00:07:27   to control it and they give you software that lets you access it from your [TS]

00:07:31   computer [TS]

00:07:32   much like Dropbox and then transporter keep in sync to other transporter [TS]

00:07:37   devices on your network or over the Internet and so you can replicate things [TS]

00:07:42   between transporters you can have it [TS]

00:07:43   content online backup going it's great for large photo storage were talking [TS]

00:07:47   about last week as you you're doing you use your own band with using your own [TS]

00:07:51   storage it's fantastic so transport of us are great for collaboration and [TS]

00:07:56   sharing in a working with files with other people because like Dropbox you [TS]

00:08:01   can have a shared folder but these files are only on your device there is no [TS]

00:08:07   cloud copy of them there's no copy on transporter service you have these files [TS]

00:08:12   and [TS]

00:08:12   you can have it replicates somebody else and it's all secure its encrypted [TS]

00:08:16   end-to-end you can back up photos from your iOS device you can copy files from [TS]

00:08:21   your computer you can use it as primary storage secondary storage it is [TS]

00:08:24   fantastic it's totally private totally encrypted no fees per month you try to [TS]

00:08:30   store a terabyte of data on Dropbox and to see a lot of those feeling pretty [TS]

00:08:35   quickly so transporters awesome you can share confidential documents securely [TS]

00:08:39   you can share home movies and photos you can send share links to people over [TS]

00:08:43   email where the files too big for email you can automatically even copy data to [TS]

00:08:47   an off-site location you can have a transporter at your house or transfer [TS]

00:08:50   your friends house your parents house here office or somebody else's office [TS]

00:08:53   and everything can just replicate and you can have a built-in backup that way [TS]

00:08:57   it's a really fantastic product so go to File Transfer Nikon check this out if [TS]

00:09:02   you use coupon code ATP you can get 10% off any of the devices in the [TS]

00:09:07   transporter store and they range from a hundred bucks to 400 bucks from zero [TS]

00:09:13   terabytes up to 4 of 22 terabytes excuse me and if you even have your own drug [TS]

00:09:18   you plug it into the cheap one and it's really fantastic so check out file [TS]

00:09:22   transporter at file transporter dot com and thanks a lot for sponsoring the show [TS]

00:09:26   we got a lot I don't know if we should say we got what we saw a lot of [TS]

00:09:32   interesting news that may or may not be news about photostream and John you seem [TS]

00:09:38   to have taken point and prepared some notes for the show that we don't prepare [TS]

00:09:43   for Casey [TS]

00:09:45   do you want to walk through kind of what we've learned over the last week we [TS]

00:09:50   talked so much about never picks on a couple of past shows a couple of people [TS]

00:09:53   into it Eric sent me a link to [TS]

00:09:56   recently updated Apple Knowledge Base article about photostream linking the [TS]

00:10:02   show notes here some tax among them says there is no limit to the amount of [TS]

00:10:07   photos you can upload to my photostream over a longer period such as several [TS]

00:10:10   months or years [TS]

00:10:11   it was a pleasure to my photostream are shared photo streams are not candidates [TS]

00:10:14   are quite startled me knew that about the icon storage and some reason they go [TS]

00:10:18   over there was a limit of a thousand been out says there's no limit right and [TS]

00:10:23   that began the conversation amongst all the people on Twitter finding other [TS]

00:10:27   Knowledge Base article saying yeah but here's this Knowledge Base article it [TS]

00:10:30   was even later david says still limit to $1000 people experimenting by saying OK [TS]

00:10:34   $1,000 is my stream I will take one more picture and I see the first picture this [TS]

00:10:39   one off the end it's also have a thousand people say well that's just [TS]

00:10:42   what's on your phone really all them on your server I went on vacation [TS]

00:10:46   took three thousand pictures only a thousand on my phone but when I came [TS]

00:10:48   home and went I put all three thousand more in my photostream [TS]

00:10:52   and this one back and forth back and forth I think we just put all these [TS]

00:10:55   links the shots people can look at them my takeaway from all this is that [TS]

00:11:00   regardless of what the situation actually is experimentally determine [TS]

00:11:04   determined from Apple's documents however you wanna do it it's obviously [TS]

00:11:08   still way too confusing for us to figure out and the most important feature [TS]

00:11:12   better pics is not how it behaves it was the fact that you could explain it very [TS]

00:11:17   simply because of all your photos forever their store in the cloud period [TS]

00:11:21   at the end [TS]

00:11:22   anything that you have to look at all these documents and have a big dinner [TS]

00:11:24   conversation about it and try to read the tea leaves on is missing the most [TS]

00:11:28   important feature which is simplicity and understandability so I'm not even [TS]

00:11:33   sure what the current situation is the upload limit stuff seems straightforward [TS]

00:11:36   did you just say well they just think how many you can upload they don't say [TS]

00:11:39   anything about how many they keep or how many will be read downloaded or anything [TS]

00:11:43   like that I think pretty much people have determined in 2009 your device and [TS]

00:11:47   the stream and 5,000 shares stream but I'm still not entirely sure about ok [TS]

00:11:53   well so given all those constraints will it do like the guy who went on vacation [TS]

00:11:56   said and yeah you only have a thousand on your your main photostream on your [TS]

00:12:00   phone but when you get home and iPhoto syncs with your photostream little down [TS]

00:12:04   all your pictures like there's no good way as far as I know to you know like [TS]

00:12:10   the equivalent of Arabic Arabic website and there's all your pictures depict the [TS]

00:12:15   cloud is the source of truth your pictures are in the cloud and they may [TS]

00:12:18   be on local machines as a caching and forestry and everything we're still not [TS]

00:12:23   sure so I think Apple may be making progress here or maybe they just changed [TS]

00:12:28   the upload limit throttling thing I don't know but it's kind of one of those [TS]

00:12:32   things where all the incremental steps don't really matter until they get to [TS]

00:12:35   the point where they just say don't worry about it simple we got you covered [TS]

00:12:38   and here's how it works and here's how you can feel secure knowing that it [TS]

00:12:41   worked because right now I don't think anyone feel secure in their knowledge of [TS]

00:12:43   exactly how photostream works with all the devices I know I certainly don't [TS]

00:12:47   know I don't either in this did you know I was thinking as you are now reading [TS]

00:12:50   all this is feel so Microsoft like you know oh well it's this except one that [TS]

00:12:57   and then there's this except one that's another thing and just so [TS]

00:13:01   blurry and weird and it's so not the way Apple usually is and just like you said [TS]

00:13:07   it needs to be simple and one thing I don't have the peace of feedback handy [TS]

00:13:11   but somebody sent us some interesting feedback with some back the napkin [TS]

00:13:16   calculations as to how much data storing every iOS users pictures from the [TS]

00:13:24   beginning of time would really take up and I don't remember the answer from my [TS]

00:13:28   head and I'm not even sure that they were right but suffice to say it was a [TS]

00:13:32   metric crapton of data that they would need a hard drive space they would need [TS]

00:13:36   in order to store all of these pictures from everyone under the Sun so perhaps [TS]

00:13:41   what made ever picks even mildly doable was simply that they weren't trying to [TS]

00:13:46   do it for everyone they were trying to do it for thousands or tens of thousands [TS]

00:13:49   of users and I i mean the start I guess search for individuals especially I mean [TS]

00:13:54   maybe the sharing seven something like that but there's not the type of its not [TS]

00:13:59   a type of services like Twitter Facebook where everybody seeing everybody else's [TS]

00:14:03   stuff where the complexity and difficulty really ramps up as you add [TS]

00:14:07   more things you can kind of silo this if you can support you know ten people you [TS]

00:14:12   can just multiply that out sport thousands and millions yes it cost tons [TS]

00:14:15   and tons of money but if it's profitable for whatever you ever had a be [TS]

00:14:19   profitable like 20,000 people will be profitable 20,000 presumed still be [TS]

00:14:24   probably forty at 60 and 90 and thought i cost so much money look at all the [TS]

00:14:27   storage costs lots of money has billions of dollars maybe you have to have my top [TS]

00:14:31   10 best but it's profitable 20004 this little thinking company hopefully Apple [TS]

00:14:35   at 400 million it could still be proper least break even or maybe it's even a [TS]

00:14:40   little bit of a cost center but you know I guess that it may be just the cost of [TS]

00:14:42   doing this is eventually and the photostream stuff is kind of like [TS]

00:14:46   bargaining it's like a disguise how about we will store your pictures and a [TS]

00:14:51   separate rooms are way better than it used to be for sharing photos I use them [TS]

00:14:54   all the time with my family because it's it's easier than it used to be and they [TS]

00:14:58   don't have to do anything in them and I was device if I put a picture of my [TS]

00:15:01   shared photo stream it appears that they can look at it right there and that's [TS]

00:15:04   better than emailing the pictures that even better than you know in the old [TS]

00:15:08   days making a dot Mac website and giving him to europe the website they would [TS]

00:15:12   look at No stuff so [TS]

00:15:13   I like photo streams but I think Apple was hoping [TS]

00:15:17   if we make this constrains service and we put these numbers up to 9,000 [TS]

00:15:21   pictures while we don't have these crazy storage demands to maybe this will solve [TS]

00:15:25   the problem and I think it helps but it doesn't you know solve the problem and [TS]

00:15:31   that is an even bigger investment with more stuff and yet the number of the [TS]

00:15:34   terrifying when you have four hundred million but almost anything you do is [TS]

00:15:36   for people to think about the email they get in there even a big email provider [TS]

00:15:40   like spam that they get a i klout.com mac.com email addresses loan is pretty [TS]

00:15:46   terrifying and that is one of those things that like gets worse as the line [TS]

00:15:50   with a PC get targeted by spammers and stuff so it's not pretending it's a [TS]

00:15:55   small problem but if anybody could do it it's the company with billions and [TS]

00:15:59   billions of dollars of catch and this really is kind of a a service that's not [TS]

00:16:05   read mostly like iTunes you're not sharing the same files for everybody but [TS]

00:16:08   it's not that complicated this file story it's not computational or a web [TS]

00:16:14   application that's all sophisticated it's basically like a big bucket of busy [TS]

00:16:18   you get back in an efficient manner and all that good stuff so well but it's [TS]

00:16:22   more than that I mean it's its replication its its backup and [TS]

00:16:26   deduplication is really not an issue but there's nothing to be gained from it but [TS]

00:16:31   certainly backup and replication and scalability and uptime and access speeds [TS]

00:16:37   and archival and all that stuff that's already under that photostream all does [TS]

00:16:41   that mean thousand pictures are still not small change in here if you multiply [TS]

00:16:45   that by 54 fifty thousand pictures for each person is 50 times harder in terms [TS]

00:16:49   of historic and 50 times more money and like all things in it right and you [TS]

00:16:54   probably can't charge for the times [TS]

00:16:56   the price or whatever but it's fun to stream itself is already hopefully all [TS]

00:17:02   those things you described they already have a solution for its just a matter of [TS]

00:17:05   ok well now we just need to put more money and I hope we find someplace to [TS]

00:17:08   get more money out charge more money for use this for don't don't give it their [TS]

00:17:11   own for free maybe maybe make it $100 your service $50 your service like their [TS]

00:17:16   things you can do you know again factored into the price of the other [TS]

00:17:19   things spread that $50 over the cost of all your other products who knows like [TS]

00:17:23   the money stuff I feel I can be worked out the technology stuff they should [TS]

00:17:27   have all the stuff already in place and they don't have the stuff anyway just [TS]

00:17:31   the important thing that companies in the technology sector gonna have to have [TS]

00:17:35   some point future so anyway they're not there yet they seem to be making motions [TS]

00:17:41   in this direction because that document did have a recent modification date [TS]

00:17:45   saying that the upload limits were lowered [TS]

00:17:49   I don't like it will know it's happened because they'll have a slide up that [TS]

00:17:52   says you know that they showed about photostream said $1000 blah blah blah [TS]

00:17:57   this line just has a single word in the middle [TS]

00:18:00   says unlimited are all your photos or some crap like that like will know it [TS]

00:18:03   when it happens I don't think it's going to arrive at the secret Knowledge Base [TS]

00:18:06   article where some neighbors know my limits yeah that's the kind of me wanna [TS]

00:18:10   brag about that that's a pretty big deal and also they would want people to know [TS]

00:18:14   that they're doing I mean if they just start quietly backing up more than your [TS]

00:18:18   last text photos they're not really getting much of a benefit that you know [TS]

00:18:22   customer wise PR was customers don't realize they can now put everything then [TS]

00:18:27   we'll use it differently will think about it differently so I think it's [TS]

00:18:30   important for them to to be very loud about it if they ever do that and also I [TS]

00:18:36   don't recall if I mention this in the last time we talked about other pics [TS]

00:18:39   which thankfully that was so quick when we did because that gives us time to [TS]

00:18:43   talk about it now but gonna kill you just a really quickly if Apple did take [TS]

00:18:51   the sign imagine how much of a selling point that would be for your normal [TS]

00:18:54   human that they look at it and they they know enough about the landscape to know [TS]

00:18:59   that well Windows Phone series Mobile 7 Series Metro not Metro doesn't do any of [TS]

00:19:04   the fancy photo things we want the Android phone that everyone is telling [TS]

00:19:08   them to get well that looks nice and all I really like that big screen but I tell [TS]

00:19:14   you what this iPhone will back up all of my pictures for me automatically not to [TS]

00:19:19   worry about it why would I not get that so I take pictures of my kids grandkids [TS]

00:19:24   dog car whatever i know i will never ever ever lose any of them now would be [TS]

00:19:29   a real selling point but again it's it's really hard to do and to get right so I [TS]

00:19:35   know a lot of people have been telling us about Google+ and have a backup [TS]

00:19:39   player stuff and some people you mentioned Dropbox and Google Plus I [TS]

00:19:41   think it's worth addressing because I think Google is signed up like a will [TS]

00:19:44   save all your photos of great stuff for you and the reason it never is on my [TS]

00:19:47   radar for something that I want to do is because [TS]

00:19:50   Google+ and the whole stuff associated with it is now almost everything he does [TS]

00:19:55   is a is a social network it's a social sharing service and I would never take [TS]

00:20:01   my family photos and give them over to a service this is social service like I [TS]

00:20:07   wouldn't if Facebook said hey we'll take all your photos and preserve the forever [TS]

00:20:10   I wouldn't do it and same thing with Google+ because the whole purpose of [TS]

00:20:13   those services share things with other people and my photo collection is by [TS]

00:20:17   default something I don't want to share but all I wanna do is selectively pic [TS]

00:20:21   maybe a handful of pictures and share them with selected people like i doin [TS]

00:20:24   photostream I never want to take here's my entire phone jamming up to a social [TS]

00:20:28   network service even if it has control that say oh yeah I know it will be [TS]

00:20:31   private by default [TS]

00:20:32   everything you upload won't be shown to anyone unless you explicitly say it will [TS]

00:20:35   don't forget the check the childlike even have all the defaults write even [TS]

00:20:39   through all the heart is in the right place it just doesn't make me [TS]

00:20:42   comfortable sick all my photos and put them on a social network like I don't [TS]

00:20:46   want to share them with the world I'm just looking for somebody to store and [TS]

00:20:48   pictures you know like ever did [TS]

00:20:51   I saw him briefly I know I saw a lot of ppl just use Flickr and i actually [TS]

00:20:57   engage with somebody was like oh yeah but they default to sharing all your [TS]

00:21:01   pictures no no you don't need to file sharing all your pictures but I [TS]

00:21:04   completely agree with you john that's inherently opposed their motivations are [TS]

00:21:10   inherently opposed to my motivations and and that's just not good so we can move [TS]

00:21:16   on from this photo stuff and let me ask John if you were Stephen Elop and you [TS]

00:21:23   were trying to discuss without actually discussing what you do is the next [TS]

00:21:27   Microsoft CEO what would you do with Xbox and I didn't actually read all [TS]

00:21:31   these articles about it was a bunch of leaks from presumably firm you lots camp [TS]

00:21:37   about what he would do if he took over Microsoft and if you analyse stuff like [TS]

00:21:41   that like I assume the idea was to leak things that people would say that's [TS]

00:21:48   awesome get this guy he said he's gonna do you like to like to make public [TS]

00:21:52   pressure you know his surrogates or whatever like suddenly that be pressure [TS]

00:21:59   from the press from the public from Microsoft shareholders even get a guy in [TS]

00:22:03   there because he has some amazing ideas you guys are a bunch of bozos but on the [TS]

00:22:07   ideas put out some terrible and everyone seems to think they're terrible I felt [TS]

00:22:11   like I don't know you know I don't know this isn't intentionally gambit was [TS]

00:22:15   maybe they thought these were great ideas but I don't think they're real [TS]

00:22:19   ideas and I don't see anybody else making their real ideas I mean maybe [TS]

00:22:22   they're scary and radical not survive he's gone for like he's ready to shake [TS]

00:22:25   stuff up there no sacred cows or whatever but don't get rid of the one [TS]

00:22:29   thing that is a cut the one price microsoft has probably the most loved by [TS]

00:22:34   customers you can take the most successful product because they had you [TS]

00:22:37   know was that multiple billion dollar right down because the red ring of death [TS]

00:22:40   on 360 isn't it lost money for years and it's hard to break even improbable I [TS]

00:22:45   think recently but over the entire lifetime still hasn't decided to hold it [TS]

00:22:48   took to get there but people like people like the Xbox and that's the world to [TS]

00:22:54   Microsoft's it's not easy to say that about much of anything these days so [TS]

00:22:58   getting ready getting rid of that only makes sense if you decide that Microsoft [TS]

00:23:01   is not going to be consumer company [TS]

00:23:03   anymore just gonna become like Oracle with a different logo and I don't think [TS]

00:23:08   that's a win scenario for anybody now would you try to kind of pull the [TS]

00:23:13   opposite or maybe similar thing to what they do with windows and brand [TS]

00:23:17   everything that everything new perhaps Microsoft does with Xbox this next box [TS]

00:23:23   out in what I mean is you know they they take the Windows Mobile whatever Windows [TS]

00:23:28   Phone series whatever whatever and personally as soon as I see Windows [TS]

00:23:33   applied to anything I get a little grumbly what do you think if they [TS]

00:23:36   rebranded things with Xbox that maybe that would be better I mean clearly that [TS]

00:23:41   work for Comcast Xfinity so why wouldn't it work here because everyone wants to [TS]

00:23:44   use the Xbox fun and there I T department had a love that I mean I [TS]

00:23:48   agree but it seems like Microsoft did you somehow from there in any sort of [TS]

00:23:53   branding branding situation I know market you the king of brands you tell [TS]

00:23:58   me I mean part of it is I don't know their branding is pretty to its pretty [TS]

00:24:03   terrible and there aren't their marketing is is even worse and [TS]

00:24:07   advertising is is just just the worst but [TS]

00:24:12   ultimately they could have this terrible advertising and those terrible names for [TS]

00:24:18   the products [TS]

00:24:19   and get away with it if the products were really amazingly good and [TS]

00:24:22   compelling to buy and the problem is they're just not you know office people [TS]

00:24:27   of office or at least they they use it I think people really do love office it [TS]

00:24:32   really is very good for what it does for the most part [TS]

00:24:34   windows I feel like some people love it most people just can't use it [TS]

00:24:38   everything else you know you can't use it cuz it's their cause what your [TS]

00:24:42   business uses or whatever you know the consumer something Xbox that's a [TS]

00:24:46   different story but the things that they're like Windows Phone and windows 8 [TS]

00:24:52   and and the new [TS]

00:24:54   the surface and and things like the service the whole line of like windows 8 [TS]

00:24:58   convertible tablets or or pure tablets late so I guess they call them still all [TS]

00:25:03   those things are just not that compelling and that that's the biggest [TS]

00:25:06   problem the market it's not it's not they have stupid names it's not that [TS]

00:25:09   they have dumbfounding commercials it's that these things just aren't getting [TS]

00:25:14   any traction with consumers consumers and I don't think there's anything small [TS]

00:25:19   they can do to fix that idea I think this is it this is a big problem that [TS]

00:25:22   needs a big solution and I'm not sure they can deliver a matter what they call [TS]

00:25:26   it [TS]

00:25:26   Xbox of actually kind of a triumph of the ante branding thing because I'm sure [TS]

00:25:30   somebody I'm sure a lot of somebody's wanted to call the Microsoft game [TS]

00:25:33   console something with the Word Microsoft in it or something with the [TS]

00:25:36   word windows and they must've been a fight and Xbox guys won that fight it's [TS]

00:25:41   not you know Microsoft Windows Xbox or Xbox for Windows and Windows game [TS]

00:25:45   machine you know anything like that it's just Xbox like me i guess im sure [TS]

00:25:50   Microsoft somewhere on the box but the Xbox brand is not tied to Microsoft is [TS]

00:25:55   not tied to windows in the same way that although the things you just mentioned [TS]

00:25:58   are and I think the Xbox brand as such you know value at this point that he [TS]

00:26:05   made a joke about what is the name of the Xbox if they made something you know [TS]

00:26:09   the Xbox one does all sorts of non-gaming stuff and if they called one [TS]

00:26:13   aspect of that nine games Xbox TV they didn't I don't have anything branded [TS]

00:26:17   that way but it basically is Xbox TV but they've called something Xbox TV network [TS]

00:26:22   kind of like oh you know will take to like like with the Xbox one does will [TS]

00:26:25   take your TV in [TS]

00:26:26   as an input an overlay stuff on it and let you switch back and forth between [TS]

00:26:30   games and I think that branding would work as people like Xbox and people [TS]

00:26:34   would like to feature set presumably so I don't think that's entirely crazy to [TS]

00:26:39   take Xbox and put it as a prefix of something else that's related to what [TS]

00:26:43   the Xbox does as in a box that connects to your TV that doesn't director of [TS]

00:26:47   things once again we have back and sponsor this week our friends at hover [TS]

00:26:52   over is high quality no hassle domain registration use promo code ATP for 10% [TS]

00:26:58   off anything they're new or old add-on or brand new to me so I dot com slash [TS]

00:27:03   ATP hover takes all the hassle infraction out of owning and managing [TS]

00:27:07   domain names therefore smart easy to use and powerful domain management tools [TS]

00:27:11   they believe that everyone should be able to take control of their online [TS]

00:27:14   identities with your own domain name and they will make it easy for you to do so [TS]

00:27:18   they're part of two cows which have been around since 1994 basically forever at [TS]

00:27:24   least on the internet and it's one of the largest domain registrars in the [TS]

00:27:27   world they offer tons of top-level domains dot net dot khou.com TV country [TS]

00:27:33   codes and many many more they recently added I O and a bunch of other ones and [TS]

00:27:38   they're constantly adding more she can get da just about anything and what I [TS]

00:27:42   like about her a lot is that they don't believe in heavy handed up selling or [TS]

00:27:47   aggressive cross they don't believe in hiding functionality required extra [TS]

00:27:51   payment for things that really should be free [TS]

00:27:53   such as whois privacy and your names such demands and URL forwarding they [TS]

00:27:58   also have a whole email hosting service if you'd like it's optional which is [TS]

00:28:02   easy and affordable to create a memorable email address as you can get [TS]

00:28:05   rid of that that weird free webmail email address that you don't control [TS]

00:28:08   like something @ gmail.com or yahoo.com or whatever they offer excellent online [TS]

00:28:13   help too and this is something that really the whole support system really [TS]

00:28:17   sets them apart from the rest [TS]

00:28:18   not only is there tons of online documentation online tutorials covering [TS]

00:28:22   pretty much everything you could possibly need to do with domain name but [TS]

00:28:26   they also have this awesome no hold no weight and no transfer telephone support [TS]

00:28:31   I actually said telephone because that could you call the 866 number of on [TS]

00:28:36   their site Monday through Friday 8:00 a.m. to 8:00 p.m. Eastern and you will [TS]

00:28:40   be speaking to a live person who picks up the phone without having to wait on [TS]

00:28:44   hold for 15 minutes and actual life person picks up the phone who is [TS]

00:28:48   empowered and eager to help you out so this is pretty great [TS]

00:28:52   go to cover dot com slash ATP for high-quality know has two main [TS]

00:28:57   registration and once again use promo code ATP for 10% off thanks a lot to [TS]

00:29:01   cover for sponsor so John since the year apparently killing everything on her [TS]

00:29:06   taking everything off this episode [TS]

00:29:08   how is the enterprise software experience treating you these days [TS]

00:29:12   big long sob story about enterprise software I was trying to debate whether [TS]

00:29:16   it fits in with just it would fit on a complaining podcast if I had such a [TS]

00:29:20   thing but this isn't it is your enthusiastic appreciating everything [TS]

00:29:26   podcast you know like to get this kind of lesson to take about like what not to [TS]

00:29:31   do or something like that I can tell magnet I can try to go through quickly [TS]

00:29:36   that's if that's at all possible I would love to hear you attempt yes I talk [TS]

00:29:42   really fast that's probably not what you want alright so this this is Tara [TS]

00:29:47   enterprise software and talk about price offering Pashos and my sort of thumbnail [TS]

00:29:53   sketch of enterprise software as the people using a software are the people [TS]

00:29:56   who purchase the software to the software if it happens to be free and so [TS]

00:30:01   this is a story of just such a kind of piece of software before Mavericks was [TS]

00:30:07   released my work changes VPN software from a VPN that worked with the VPN [TS]

00:30:13   support that's built into OS 10 [TS]

00:30:15   G one that requires a third-party Klein and so here is the enterprise software [TS]

00:30:20   US number one of the story when a new version of us 10 comes out [TS]

00:30:24   assume your enterprise software will not work with it might not seem like a weird [TS]

00:30:30   assumption but like I did when I was sort of sketching out the notion of like [TS]

00:30:34   you know what I just I do just assume that I just assume that you know when [TS]

00:30:39   the new version OS 10 comes out most of my favorite programs will work with it [TS]

00:30:43   but of course enterprise software 1 I've always question but I thought you were [TS]

00:30:48   quite why is that there are months and months to lead up to 10 extended-release [TS]

00:30:51   like there's a developer conference their developer builds like they give [TS]

00:30:56   you like and it seems like all these companies are shocked that Apple came [TS]

00:30:59   out with a new album we've never seen anything like this before where did this [TS]

00:31:01   come from Mavericks who heard of that and then that day after it comes out [TS]

00:31:06   they you know they start work on you know they find out on that day whether [TS]

00:31:10   they're suffering [TS]

00:31:12   is almost as I'm not sure the enterprise software companies have anybody actively [TS]

00:31:17   working on their software products are released the software right and so we [TS]

00:31:21   just like a reactive mode immunological twenty years and no one cares about the [TS]

00:31:25   people who do stuff in my butt in my line of work but Oracle what year is [TS]

00:31:29   about a 64 bit client library that worked in OS 10 like year expand like 32 [TS]

00:31:34   or 30 s 10 releases that a 64 bit and just couldn't be bothered was like who [TS]

00:31:39   cares whatever [TS]

00:31:41   sure enough members came out my enterprise software did not work with it [TS]

00:31:45   just this is the Cisco VPN and I was named names of the show sorry Cisco [TS]

00:31:53   Cisco seemed you know genuinely shocked members are released and they seem [TS]

00:32:00   shocked by their software to work with it like that our stuff doesn't work with [TS]

00:32:03   it and they said the existing version kind of work except it might frequently [TS]

00:32:08   disconnect which is like that doesn't work really does exactly what I wanted [TS]

00:32:13   to offer and so you know I could upgrade to Mavericks into the VPN software so [TS]

00:32:18   short time later with a couple weeks Cisco updated version embattled maverick [TS]

00:32:24   so this is comes up and says it will sponsor because unlike are committed [TS]

00:32:27   wait three years [TS]

00:32:28   weeks only weeks after mao's released now granted it still sort of drives me [TS]

00:32:32   crazy is like you should not have found out when I was released its offer was [TS]

00:32:36   incompatible in scramble for a couple weeks have a compatible version anyway [TS]

00:32:40   the new version said as a workaround for a bug that same ever since they filed a [TS]

00:32:44   bug with apple and this version should work on top of fixes the bug in their US [TS]

00:32:48   which I completely believe again this book should have been filed by seven [TS]

00:32:51   developer releases Mavericks ago but whatever [TS]

00:32:54   in the meantime here's one that has a work around it shouldn't disconnect [TS]

00:32:57   right so we come down to price offer assumption number two you will not be [TS]

00:33:00   able to get the software you need [TS]

00:33:02   can can i download this new version of the VPN client is compatible with [TS]

00:33:07   maverick's first half of that is trying to find it on Cisco's website which is [TS]

00:33:12   not easy to find this type of thing you think you'll be right there next to the [TS]

00:33:15   words already told me they had a new version but it's not because I was like [TS]

00:33:18   in forum somewhere with some Cisco person this reminded me of when I had to [TS]

00:33:22   install RAID drivers for raid cards on Linux it's exactly the same thing we [TS]

00:33:28   have to dive through these like crazy [TS]

00:33:31   enterprises sites and good luck finding anything and then they want you to join [TS]

00:33:35   their their program for their premium support everything that I bought the car [TS]

00:33:40   to download the thing that makes it work necessary whenever you find yourself in [TS]

00:33:44   a forum almost especially if it's an official forum just some random form [TS]

00:33:50   with a bunch of people like this artificial person from the company [TS]

00:33:52   responding to the forum that I mean this is this is what drove the creation of [TS]

00:33:55   our flow for one and discourse for another like if you find yourself a [TS]

00:34:00   traditional farm scrolling through pages and pages of replies looking for the [TS]

00:34:03   ones from the official Cisco guy trying to like it's like replaying the Journal [TS]

00:34:07   of filesystem everything was replaying the journal a file system to reconstruct [TS]

00:34:13   the history to like zoom up to the current day so that you know you have to [TS]

00:34:16   read these giant threats to find information but eventually found the [TS]

00:34:19   page that had this this text on it I copy and pasted on the website because I [TS]

00:34:25   just love copy from these websites directory contains versions of any kind [TS]

00:34:29   for all platforms the current download for a standard version 3.1 points 0 4074 [TS]

00:34:34   that the real version number for enterprise offer and other platforms are [TS]

00:34:38   3.1 40 4072 anyconnect version a long number is required for us 10.9 and all [TS]

00:34:46   the Mac platforms me either use so underneath that training tiny tiny text [TS]

00:34:51   is a huge scrolling iframe containing many many downloads most of which are [TS]

00:34:56   not my platform including items like with text like this package enables FIP [TS]

00:35:02   s all caps for Mac OS 10 all one word squished together [TS]

00:35:07   Intel and scare quotes for some reason platform so package enables tips for Mac [TS]

00:35:13   OS 10 Intel platforms file contains the VPN API for Mac OS 10 spaced out this [TS]

00:35:19   time Intel platforms stand-alone DND package from a ghost and Intel pot farms [TS]

00:35:24   web deployment package from a ghost and Intel platforms all of these are the old [TS]

00:35:29   version number despite the note in the top saying that you want at the new [TS]

00:35:31   version number I don't know what he wanted tips to on VPN a PID wanna do I [TS]

00:35:35   stand alone DMD package on web deployment package like no instructions [TS]

00:35:39   in that regard [TS]

00:35:40   easiest way to file I want was to search for the version number string on the [TS]

00:35:43   page to a page in browser you know search for the thing cause then I found [TS]

00:35:48   like way down and said if you scroll past hundred of these things for Linux [TS]

00:35:51   or Windows versions of Windows different platforms different versions eventually [TS]

00:35:55   I found the one that I want and the thing I guess the US and this is the [TS]

00:36:00   next time you're on some web developers now some some developers website and [TS]

00:36:05   what platform Iran and gives you a gigantic shiny red glossy button with a [TS]

00:36:09   download link for the latest version of their software for your platform [TS]

00:36:12   appreciated because like you know when you go to website and like that's what [TS]

00:36:18   they want you to have you want to go to some IndyMac development is just jog at [TS]

00:36:22   the button says download now download right here even if a link to the Mac App [TS]

00:36:25   Store them take you right to the thing underpriced offer you have to hunt for [TS]

00:36:30   the download link decoys like all those one that is red and yet the note fixes [TS]

00:36:33   and I don't you know not selection of the stuff [TS]

00:36:36   a bunch of his heart disease to just throw in a range for the non-tech savvy [TS]

00:36:40   they find it I find the download link that I want i click it and no I get a [TS]

00:36:45   message saying after login right so I figured that would be the case then i [TS]

00:36:50   can download their software is crazy like Marco said you have to register an [TS]

00:36:53   account so I register I create an account I check my email for the [TS]

00:36:57   confirmation message the message I click the confirmation link that I attempt to [TS]

00:37:02   log into my new confirm Cisco account and I get this error message I N word [TS]

00:37:07   for it [TS]

00:37:07   your login was unsuccessful for one of the following reasons you entered your [TS]

00:37:11   use your idea and our password incorrectly please try again [TS]

00:37:14   that's a bulleted items the second bullet I do you recently registered or [TS]

00:37:18   reset your password our systems are updating your information please try [TS]

00:37:21   again in five minutes [TS]

00:37:23   God its slave flag that actually nervous so so then we come to enterprise all [TS]

00:37:29   resumption number three what works and the rest of the world and the rest of [TS]

00:37:34   the world if you create an account and the email you confirmation link and go [TS]

00:37:38   through the whole of course you can log into my account you just confirmed a [TS]

00:37:42   time you can even partially log into an even if you haven't confirmed but you [TS]

00:37:45   know to sell you have confirmed your right but the enterprise world merely [TS]

00:37:49   creating an account and clicking the confirmation you can log into it right [TS]

00:37:52   so yeah so I wait five minutes right same error I wait 10 minutes America [TS]

00:37:57   two-minute same error [TS]

00:37:59   I'm thinking maybe I missed my password and then maybe I mistyped it twice [TS]

00:38:02   during the account creation process is possible to capitalize on some crazy [TS]

00:38:06   things like that right so I reset my password but thankfully they have forgot [TS]

00:38:10   your password link or not they go on to another round because sometimes I forgot [TS]

00:38:13   your password thinking like call somebody or something i reset my [TS]

00:38:16   password reset type in your password I try logging in with my newly reset [TS]

00:38:22   password and what I horse again is that same error message that says you're in [TS]

00:38:25   your User ID and our president correctly pasar grin as one bullet item or you [TS]

00:38:30   recently registered to reset your password and I did recently reset my [TS]

00:38:34   password and I realized like that's not going to help me because I get that [TS]

00:38:37   error message again this message was unsuccessful for one of the following [TS]

00:38:41   reasons and it gives two possible reasons one user ID and password [TS]

00:38:45   incorrect to you just recently registered or reset I did just recently [TS]

00:38:49   recently actually for reasons to believe points please try again in five minutes [TS]

00:38:55   five minutes wait ten minutes fifteen minutes wait a whole day you actually [TS]

00:38:59   did a whole day who knows it was like maybe like you said maybe it hasn't [TS]

00:39:04   problem maybe like some person has to read down on Form and like many graphic [TS]

00:39:08   put into magic to let her know how things get into the real database enter [TS]

00:39:14   into an Excel spreadsheet and son prince that Excel spreadsheet and then sent to [TS]

00:39:19   pick off as an office is entered in their COBOL system and I don't know how [TS]

00:39:23   I gave it a whole day same error message and this just makes the assumption of [TS]

00:39:30   three works in a restaurant doesn't work and enterprise create an account you can [TS]

00:39:33   login to reset your password you can log into it so now I'm in desperation mode [TS]

00:39:38   email like the support right now you know some fun on the website something [TS]

00:39:42   like technical support the Cisco website right here seem tired text of my email I [TS]

00:39:47   can't log into my account cisco.com I give the user name as well [TS]

00:39:50   I tried resetting my password each time it has succeeded but each time a new [TS]

00:39:54   password still does not work I think it's straightforward I know what else to [TS]

00:39:58   tell them like I gave them my username I i said i cant login and their first [TS]

00:40:03   thing is gonna be like oh maybe you forgot your password you should probably [TS]

00:40:05   resent it so I felt like I should tell them i reset my password several times [TS]

00:40:08   actually visited several times and each time it says yes we reset your password [TS]

00:40:12   but each time I try to login again my new the reset password doesn't work at [TS]

00:40:15   all I said I didn't have to go into this big rigmarole about the weird messages [TS]

00:40:18   and stuff like that I figure maybe something weird on my counter I'm locked [TS]

00:40:21   out of the should be able to see on their end failed login attempts or [TS]

00:40:24   something who knows I got a response I'm at like 12 hours later which is pretty [TS]

00:40:27   darn good and I'm not being sarcastic about this in terms like customer [TS]

00:40:31   support for for any company 12 hours it pretty good turnaround time on a support [TS]

00:40:34   email but especially were becoming like Cisco master reply there john thank you [TS]

00:40:40   for contacting Cisco by adding Stardust cisco.com to the Trusted Sites you're [TS]

00:40:45   able to login success how to do it question mark AMA follow these easy [TS]

00:40:49   steps period just steps are labeled with a capital A . click the tools button [TS]

00:40:58   then click Internet be click the Security tab see now click Trusted Sites [TS]

00:41:05   they click on the site's bundy goes to the instructions for Internet Explorer [TS]

00:41:09   adding start as a trusted site because I guess the assumption is my problem is I [TS]

00:41:13   can't login is not addresses I didn't say anything about residents in the many [TS]

00:41:16   rich green johnson didn't mention platform but this is the response I get [TS]

00:41:19   its ok forget about that time the creative I know I didn't do this earlier [TS]

00:41:24   but I made an incognito window and chrome of deleting cookies like just [TS]

00:41:29   start with a fresh slate and I go to college porn motifs are the kids I go to [TS]

00:41:36   login form enter my password it works i login I'm the top of the page like my [TS]

00:41:40   username I go to My Account on my game I count it works everything works great [TS]

00:41:44   and so I get to the download link I click on it and asked me to login and [TS]

00:41:52   now I read the message the message that it's that shows you when you try to [TS]

00:41:56   click on the link the message that was there the first time but they didn't [TS]

00:41:59   finish reading because of impatience and down the software you must login [TS]

00:42:02   either linked to login and the first time I encountered this problem I can [TS]

00:42:05   either click the Login link and it went through you don't have an account create [TS]

00:42:07   account blah blah but a message continues [TS]

00:42:10   you must login and have a valid service contract associated with your Cisco [TS]

00:42:14   enterprise software some new number for sometimes despite all the terrible [TS]

00:42:20   things that are terrible bad press off where it's at least partially your fault [TS]

00:42:23   if I had read that message the first time I probably would have stopped this [TS]

00:42:27   process I don't have a valid service contract associated with my cisco.com [TS]

00:42:30   problem I don't have a cisco.com program instead I read the software you must [TS]

00:42:34   login login with blue and underlined I clicked on it and I went off so I like [TS]

00:42:39   every other user doesn't read all the messages just gets the part that I want [TS]

00:42:41   to get too so i cant get this offer myself I don't have a service contract [TS]

00:42:45   on some real quick [TS]

00:42:47   over how long between the first time he saw the Login link and click did and the [TS]

00:42:52   realization now that you needed to read the rest of the message as you mentioned [TS]

00:42:58   at least a 12 hour wait right in my god I try to Monday and went through the [TS]

00:43:02   whole big thing and then it kept asking me to its final wait till tomorrow night [TS]

00:43:05   ride second day and and then did the email thing coming up in my backpack is [TS]

00:43:09   the third day like I'm not like sitting there hammer in this is another run at [TS]

00:43:13   it and by the way I think the prob with the incognito window thing is that it [TS]

00:43:20   probably could keep me seeing that he was trying to get the destination acts [TS]

00:43:24   but before you get there we understand you often this tangent create an account [TS]

00:43:27   login to it I think what happened was I went off and attended credit account and [TS]

00:43:32   everytime onto the login form is trying to sell me his mission to get to see [TS]

00:43:36   every time I logged in you'll probably accept my offer authentic Asian try to [TS]

00:43:39   send me the destination then bouncing back and say oh you can't get it because [TS]

00:43:42   you have long been sending back to login for the error message doesn't say [TS]

00:43:45   anything about that in their message was terrible anyway I was in one of the four [TS]

00:43:48   hundred error possibilities [TS]

00:43:50   yeah now it's like while clearing cookies while clearing cookies allow me [TS]

00:43:57   to get login because it sent me just tell me on the home page then write so I [TS]

00:44:00   couldn't get this offer myself so I figured let me try to get in the way [TS]

00:44:04   that my work says I'm supposed to get right and they're in their instructions [TS]

00:44:08   which I've done before obviously cuz I have the existing version this weekend's [TS]

00:44:11   over the works and now nine is [TS]

00:44:13   make sure you're not on the VPN Sep 10 which so he struck mister and rain rain [TS]

00:44:17   go to some special URL login with my special where credentials below to Java [TS]

00:44:21   applet tragedy check my platform and send me the file and most of the time of [TS]

00:44:26   course this doesn't work right [TS]

00:44:27   some light line credentials work then sometimes bouncing back to login page [TS]

00:44:31   and then the whole browsers Friday need to clear cookies are quite the browser [TS]

00:44:34   and relaunch it and have a chance at a job a blowout load for the Java applet [TS]

00:44:38   hang their platforms i try Chrome and Safari try Firefox I can try in my VN [TS]

00:44:45   other text platform and if it works in Windows but then gives you the Windows [TS]

00:44:50   version of it right though I was fine with us I'm used to it eventually get it [TS]

00:44:55   downloaded look at of course it's still the old version right now I just have to [TS]

00:44:58   work late for work to update its old versions and this kind of the stadium [TS]

00:45:03   and now it was like I can't get this offer myself I have to wait for my [TS]

00:45:08   office up to the version software I told him you know I told them I beginning of [TS]

00:45:11   this process before I started any of it I sent a support ticket said hey can I [TS]

00:45:14   have the version of the video that works in every small ball but I know turned on [TS]

00:45:18   a really long and that so while this was going on it was pretty well let me try [TS]

00:45:21   to get the thing myself and the question is I guess why does this have a [TS]

00:45:25   downloader like why does it require a service contract what why are all these [TS]

00:45:29   things that are happening why are they there why isn't this bpm installer just [TS]

00:45:33   a download link that says website why isn't as I just wanna share my work but [TS]

00:45:36   I can get [TS]

00:45:38   I guess it comes down to control like I T departments and offices want control [TS]

00:45:43   because they don't want to just let anybody [TS]

00:45:47   install any software they want they have to qualify it to determine that it works [TS]

00:45:51   well the other software that qualified to work in the company or whatever and [TS]

00:45:54   it makes sense from their perspective because it's the best way to have [TS]

00:45:57   predictable results when you're supporting hundreds and hundreds of [TS]

00:46:00   people have a set of approved software nothing new goes in that setting to its [TS]

00:46:05   testing to make sure it works with all the other proof software and you can [TS]

00:46:08   just let users download where the hell they want installed on their computers [TS]

00:46:11   like the opposite of I T supporting you know didn't do a whole nuanced [TS]

00:46:16   discussion about whether that's the right modified diaspora but it's the [TS]

00:46:18   current model and computer nerds in the works like as we just want to do it [TS]

00:46:22   there are cells and yeah I do wanna do it myself but it's it's kind of like I [TS]

00:46:26   said doctors make the workstations I think computer nerds make the worst [TS]

00:46:30   people to support and I T and I'm sure the art department hates the fact that [TS]

00:46:32   can I have big giant version number of this piece of software is it works with [TS]

00:46:37   this version of the OS imbaba block yeah you know that there's a whole culture [TS]

00:46:41   people who really really don't like Apple like period they just don't like [TS]

00:46:45   Apple and they don't like Mac in all capital letters and I have to wonder [TS]

00:46:51   like I bet the percentage of people who who manage I T departments at large [TS]

00:46:58   companies have been among them the percentage of them who are the kind of [TS]

00:47:04   people who hate mackinaw capitals is way higher than average and you know just [TS]

00:47:09   just culturally I guarantee that's the case and and and so they don't they [TS]

00:47:14   don't like it they don't respect it and I think it also applies to enterprise [TS]

00:47:18   software developers as well and that I think that's partly why I like deeds the [TS]

00:47:24   enterprise offering people I was totally caught off guard when a new version of [TS]

00:47:27   us because they don't they don't respect Mac people or apple or or the platform [TS]

00:47:33   enough to actually pay any attention whatsoever to the betas or two or to [TS]

00:47:37   prioritize the releases that fix horrible bugs that that only affect Mac [TS]

00:47:42   people [TS]

00:47:43   I really think that you know it it's just a whole culture of like well you [TS]

00:47:48   know you you people who want to use Mac our capitals you're just like this this [TS]

00:47:52   annoyance for us and that's not real software and anything that goes wrong it [TS]

00:47:57   that's definitely a Mac in all capitals bug and that's that's on our bug that [TS]

00:48:01   that's their buggin a mess something up because Apple stupid I I bet a lot of [TS]

00:48:06   this I was definitely the Oracle vibe but the fire from Cisco's weirdo because [TS]

00:48:10   as soon as you know the forums lit up with like a Mavericks out and my VPN [TS]

00:48:14   doesn't work so widely used product it seemed like the official Cisco people [TS]

00:48:19   were genuinely concerned about this failure and didn't know about like oh my [TS]

00:48:24   god our stuff doesn't work with the new version night i just released this just [TS]

00:48:28   came out how could we have not like they did not aware that there are developer [TS]

00:48:32   builds of it or like it's and the thing is they reacted quickly like they got a [TS]

00:48:37   new build up then you know in weeks [TS]

00:48:39   it wasn't that it was less than a month like that's pretty fast for enterprise [TS]

00:48:42   software potential witnesses gotta go through all you know like they reacted [TS]

00:48:46   like this is that this is important we need to have a version of this works [TS]

00:48:48   would but if that was the case its backing to me like it there so concerned [TS]

00:48:52   about it like this didn't have to be this way you could have known this was [TS]

00:48:56   coming by being part of the Apple not everybody gets one due to the company [TS]

00:49:00   right and the other thing is I was picturing these companies there is like [TS]

00:49:03   one guy who's like a Mac user the one God they have working on the Mac [TS]

00:49:06   software surely that guy's a Big Mac nerd and maybe he's held back by his [TS]

00:49:10   bosses or something like that but I don't understand why you know a little [TS]

00:49:15   one person IndyMac software developer shop can make sure all his software all [TS]

00:49:20   his seventeen applications of his reign over the overall work on Mavericks and [TS]

00:49:24   have his offer ready before you know before the official public release and I [TS]

00:49:29   guess Cisco maybe it's because they're a big company because they're slow [TS]

00:49:33   momentum just like it's just become like a Dobies software I'm assuming work [TS]

00:49:37   within the Mavericks like I don't understand it but but the enterprise [TS]

00:49:42   stuff I do understand even a little bit like a VPN stuff especially you can't [TS]

00:49:47   just download software like the software they give you from the Java thing is [TS]

00:49:50   pre-configured with all the values for your company again that these that's [TS]

00:49:54   better for people to come [TS]

00:49:55   hard techno so you just wanna give them something it just looks run this it will [TS]

00:49:58   be all set up for you which is convenient but it also means that even [TS]

00:50:01   if I was able to offer from Cisco I would have to then No all the different [TS]

00:50:06   values after putting you know what is the server name or does the port what is [TS]

00:50:09   the protocol that at this check here in this check box and all that stuff to get [TS]

00:50:12   a configured so I would have to download the official version try to dig into and [TS]

00:50:16   fun like plist files or other configuration things to figure out what [TS]

00:50:19   all did I use are trying to ask I T which is you know how can you tell me [TS]

00:50:22   the values to self configured like what do you do in South configure the VPN [TS]

00:50:26   plan you can do that you can download our official runner-up that version yet [TS]

00:50:30   you really don't you know I'm a pain in the butt [TS]

00:50:33   this is mostly / partially my fault but enterprise software is also terrible it [TS]

00:50:40   is and I think I might be able to explain some of that before I do before [TS]

00:50:45   I do that [TS]

00:50:46   Marco is there anything else you'd like to tell us there is it is our wonderful [TS]

00:50:51   friends at Squarespace [TS]

00:50:53   where space is the all-in-one platform that makes it fast and easy to create [TS]

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00:51:02   could ask where space.com and use offer code ATP 11 for the month of 11 [TS]

00:51:08   Squarespace is constantly improving their platform with new features new [TS]

00:51:12   designed an even better support their beautiful designs you to start with and [TS]

00:51:16   all the style options you need to create a unique website for you or your [TS]

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00:51:28   70 full-time employees based in New York City alone so we started just $8 a month [TS]

00:51:35   and includes a FREE domain name for a whole year every design that they have [TS]

00:51:40   these beautiful templates I mean really you can do as little or as much as you [TS]

00:51:44   want to customize them I chose to do very little for the ATP site and it [TS]

00:51:48   still looks amazing [TS]

00:51:50   there's a built-in DVR is that good so these themes they're built by [TS]

00:51:55   professional designers they've won awards they even all all come with [TS]

00:51:59   matching Mobile templates to have these responsive designs that are really [TS]

00:52:03   fantastic they look just like the rest of the site so it looks [TS]

00:52:06   on theme on brand if you will and it's really fantastic your content look great [TS]

00:52:11   on any size screen on any device you can start a free trial today with no credit [TS]

00:52:15   card required and start building your website right now when you do decide to [TS]

00:52:20   sign up for Squarespace make sure use offer code ATP 11 to a 10% off your [TS]

00:52:24   first purchase and show your support for ATP thank you very much to Squarespace [TS]

00:52:29   for their very frequent an awesome support of ATP there everything you need [TS]

00:52:33   to create an exceptional website thanks for space to change our template all [TS]

00:52:37   these cool templates the Squarespace as you say template template template [TS]

00:52:44   anyway I there are coupons I see them I said there are cool website kind of [TS]

00:52:51   boring can't you just like change about change you know cooking something [TS]

00:52:54   changes that can be your homework for the week [TS]

00:52:56   no I don't have a lot of space I don't [TS]

00:53:00   rotating css3 cubes all of that site by somebody please send me the code to do [TS]

00:53:07   that [TS]

00:53:08   css3 rotating cube you'll find it that's amazing did I give him the login [TS]

00:53:14   credentials [TS]

00:53:15   well now I'm tempted to know now finally fix all the typos I'm a condition to [TS]

00:53:21   give me the login credentials and talking to John here it is doing way too [TS]

00:53:25   much planning as evidenced by last segment so that's a lot like preparation [TS]

00:53:29   and notes to me like once this process started and like I need to write this [TS]

00:53:34   stuff down because the details are important the exact error message if you [TS]

00:53:37   just said trying to do something it was a bunch of errors and stuff it doesn't [TS]

00:53:40   like you really need to get the details on that John let me tell you you know if [TS]

00:53:46   we're all honest with each other [TS]

00:53:48   the people come to the show from me and kind of remark oh you're just attack [TS]

00:53:53   long I will show if you continue to do this kind of preparation this is [TS]

00:53:58   unacceptable I'm just lucky now you're you're on notice so earlier KJ healing [TS]

00:54:04   in the chat said think of it this way people who develop Minecraft mods as [TS]

00:54:07   children grow up to be enterprise software authors as adults [TS]

00:54:12   minecraft model there is way more enthusiastic in their enterprise people [TS]

00:54:19   they totally wanna be there like as soon as a new Minecraft version they have [TS]

00:54:22   like I had his version of my mod that works with the beta 1.7 and they track [TS]

00:54:27   the betas works with the second beta of 1.7 1.7 official comes out you can be [TS]

00:54:31   damn sure their mom works with it if you could ever find download link and if you [TS]

00:54:34   and if you count all the prerequisites that they don't mention that because [TS]

00:54:39   they serve everybody knows I'm an enterprise software is a hard problem in [TS]

00:54:44   its like I I have a small man experiencing because my first job after [TS]

00:54:49   college for a couple of years was writing enterprise software and and it [TS]

00:54:53   was a very small company but but we our customers were very big companies and [TS]

00:54:58   it's just a tough business because any effort I would want to put in for making [TS]

00:55:04   things better [TS]

00:55:05   improving the UI improving the design improving the flow of anything the [TS]

00:55:11   customers didn't really care [TS]

00:55:13   nobody ever asked for that when I would when I would actually get to spend some [TS]

00:55:16   time doing it and I will work on it for like a month no one cared no one said [TS]

00:55:20   anything anymore sales it probably didn't result in any benefit to the [TS]

00:55:25   company at all actually and John the beginning like enterprise software that [TS]

00:55:30   the people who make the decisions usually are not people who are going to [TS]

00:55:33   be using it every day and so it's just us this bizarre market where it is a big [TS]

00:55:39   market and there's a lot of money to be made there but it just does not work the [TS]

00:55:42   way you'd expect based on consumer software it's just very very different [TS]

00:55:46   all the incentives are different the whole process of making and selling and [TS]

00:55:50   maintaining it is extremely different and it's just as weird bizarre [TS]

00:55:54   alternative universe that people like us who are mostly in the consumer side just [TS]

00:56:00   can't possibly understand and I think we're better off for it [TS]

00:56:03   well that's mostly true so as someone who has kind of a leg in both universes [TS]

00:56:09   I can tell you a few things firstly I've noticed that my companies I work at a [TS]

00:56:14   consultancy that's somewhere around sixty needy people I forget exactly what [TS]

00:56:19   the numbers now [TS]

00:56:20   and we typically work on the Microsoft stack but not exclusively and I will [TS]

00:56:25   tell you that I've noticed since I started at this particular company about [TS]

00:56:30   a year ago a little over a year and a half year and a half ago now I was one [TS]

00:56:35   of the few people to have a Mac because I pretty much negotiated on the way and [TS]

00:56:40   that I'm not gonna have a PC or did this conversation is over and I was one of [TS]

00:56:44   the one of a handful of people that had a Mac and now I'm noticing that there [TS]

00:56:49   are there are way more Mac users not only developers even the executives are [TS]

00:56:58   using various flavors of Max more and more with each passing day and in fact [TS]

00:57:04   our singular I T guy he just decided you know I've got a 15 inch high res [TS]

00:57:12   antiglare MacBook Pro just sitting in the closet maybe I should use that [TS]

00:57:16   myself and similarly his Android phone I don't remember specifically what it was [TS]

00:57:22   about right well and there's a million but they're all the same but anyway the [TS]

00:57:27   point is like cats [TS]

00:57:29   exactly so about a month ago or whatever what you know is right around the time [TS]

00:57:33   of 5s came how he said to me hey my android phones headphone jack is busted [TS]

00:57:39   and I use that for all my music everywhere so I need something to fix [TS]

00:57:44   this now was thinking if you just gotta 5 SKC do you have an old iPhone they [TS]

00:57:48   want to unload masatomo yeah for us but I can't in good conscience give that to [TS]

00:57:54   you let alone sell it to you but you know when you see what I can do it ended [TS]

00:57:58   up another friend of mine how 25 and he paid my friend 45 in so in the in the [TS]

00:58:04   course of two or three months that this guy this friend of mine / RIT guy went [TS]

00:58:09   from being an Android and Dell user to an iPhone and Mac user and so the reason [TS]

00:58:16   I bring all this up is because in a smaller corporate environments [TS]

00:58:20   it's actually starting to be more more prevalent for even non-technical people [TS]

00:58:26   like the executives at the company to use Macs and I thought that was kind of [TS]

00:58:30   interesting [TS]

00:58:31   now with regard to the enterprise software specifically so we work with [TS]

00:58:36   all different size clients we work with extremely small clients and we work with [TS]

00:58:40   pretty big clients and measuring pretty big that generally speaking tens of [TS]

00:58:45   thousands of employees and if there's anything I've noticed is that it firstly [TS]

00:58:51   the the group that were specifically working with 10 in large degree make or [TS]

00:58:57   break a project so if the team at the client that we're working with is really [TS]

00:59:02   enthusiastic and really excited and really wants to build what's right then [TS]

00:59:06   we can play off of that and we can build what's right there are other times that [TS]

00:59:13   will be working with a group of a group of the client that is not enthusiastic [TS]

00:59:19   and has been beaten down and just like you said Marco when you were at the [TS]

00:59:24   search engine company it even if we pose the most amazing solution to a problem [TS]

00:59:30   it's usually men met with nobody's gonna care and and i think what that comes [TS]

00:59:38   from years I've noticed in big companies across a couple of jobs now because I'm [TS]

00:59:43   gonna consult for a while then really be companies it seems like what I would [TS]

00:59:47   define as middle management so people that are not peons but are not really [TS]

00:59:53   that important either they all go firstly there's a million of them and [TS]

00:59:59   they all deep down inside realize that they're kind of expendable and the [TS]

01:00:05   problem is is that they know this deep down inside and so now it's their [TS]

01:00:10   mission to prevent anyone else from knowing that they're expendable so what [TS]

01:00:16   does that mean what that means is anytime you in a meeting [TS]

01:00:19   Susie into me and Johnny and and Sally and everyone there all these middle [TS]

01:00:24   managers need to have their names now of course not but all of these managers [TS]

01:00:29   need to speak up in let it be known I said something interesting and I said [TS]

01:00:36   something important [TS]

01:00:37   this was my idea and because of that nothing gets done because everyone has [TS]

01:00:43   to have an opinion about everything and nobody can agree on everything and [TS]

01:00:47   everyone wants to make sure they know that I said that thing I'm importance I [TS]

01:00:51   shouldn't be the one to get the pink slip and it's just so shocking and it's [TS]

01:00:56   terrible and the unfortunate thing is a lot of times that is the entire company [TS]

01:01:00   but what's almost worse is is when you have a group that's really excited and [TS]

01:01:07   really interested in really cares and then they're met with so much inertia [TS]

01:01:12   that's really or so much I guess non inertia in other words the company that [TS]

01:01:18   around them is so stagnant that there's nothing they can do to move it and I and [TS]

01:01:23   again I bring all this up because what if the Cisco VPN people hypothetically [TS]

01:01:27   knew them average was coming out and wanted to go to WWDC in really cared at [TS]

01:01:32   all this was happening but everyone around them just didn't care and didn't [TS]

01:01:38   let them take action and that's what you see in corporate America and it's it's [TS]

01:01:42   mind-boggling to me as someone who lives and works in corporate America yet in a [TS]

01:01:47   very small portion of corporate America it's mind-boggling to me that this works [TS]

01:01:52   at these humongous companies ever make any money I don't know how they do it [TS]

01:01:57   it's it's truly truly amazing success I'd problems it does there's a bunch of [TS]

01:02:03   money coming in and he's been on that is complete it's like it's like your [TS]

01:02:06   funding it's kinda like dot com bubble when it was a bunch of dot-com companies [TS]

01:02:11   sign each other services with their own BC money probably missed out on that the [TS]

01:02:16   first bubble yeah I was in college during that but that that was basically [TS]

01:02:19   you know very quickly especially in like the metro areas is you have EC funded [TS]

01:02:25   startup selling the services to another EC funded sorry it was like it was like [TS]

01:02:29   the strange exchanges swap with VC money money ran out and then you realize all [TS]

01:02:33   of our customers or other people who didn't have any customers except for us [TS]

01:02:36   and we're all just this time it's a bubble the only winner for the people [TS]

01:02:40   made the foosball tables not even then the winner of the real winners with the [TS]

01:02:44   people who resell youth office equip [TS]

01:02:47   yeah man come in with the big trucks and they come in so that you know you get an [TS]

01:02:52   error on real cheap and the building owners are pretty well too high rents [TS]

01:02:56   for a short period of time [TS]

01:02:57   vacancies was a problem yeah but like so many companies that presumably they have [TS]

01:03:03   some money maker [TS]

01:03:04   some product or service they got itself entrenched it really does make money [TS]

01:03:07   over the long term and that funneled money fuels internal dysfunction like [TS]

01:03:12   like not not as I can cause internal dissension it literally feels like [TS]

01:03:16   there's an engine there is no destruction running and the only way [TS]

01:03:20   keeps running as you keep our money and because you didn't put money in all [TS]

01:03:22   these people doing nothing would get fired or if you have layoffs or [TS]

01:03:25   something else would happen but if everything's going well you guys get to [TS]

01:03:29   play this game of basically you know internal office politics was ball [TS]

01:03:32   without worrying because the money is coming in just jockey over who gets the [TS]

01:03:36   credit for which amount of money came in and do a source of an efficient internal [TS]

01:03:39   things at the scenario for imagining and Cisco scenario I guess like companies to [TS]

01:03:47   reactive enough that I will sign when the customer complaints that flooding in [TS]

01:03:50   that is a that's an input to the company that's a metric that someone's tracking [TS]

01:03:54   that has an effect customer complaints we have important customers big [TS]

01:03:58   important customers who want this now is like a CEO some companies spend a [TS]

01:04:02   billion dollars at Cisco and he has Mavericks and he wants to be into work [TS]

01:04:07   then it's a fire drill and everyone all hands on deck and maybe that little unit [TS]

01:04:11   that Casey was hypothesizing you know like how we've been telling you that for [TS]

01:04:15   a week like an okay now you get to do it because it's it's a fire drill and now [TS]

01:04:18   there's something to it but but like many many scenarios like this could be [TS]

01:04:23   possible I just don't know what's going on inside and like and think about [TS]

01:04:27   enterprise software is like it exists for a reason that is mostly [TS]

01:04:30   understandable like the people in my company or do I T like marco was talking [TS]

01:04:35   about the the NIT people who have the Mac I've had those I D people I don't [TS]

01:04:39   have the now my company has a good idea department wants to do the right thing [TS]

01:04:42   and in fact are usually enthusiastic about Max and are trying to support [TS]

01:04:45   their deficit is maybe they don't experience and so they don't deserve a [TS]

01:04:49   nobel gonna figure it out but their requirements are like enterprise [TS]

01:04:53   software is made for them again the customers that could make improvements [TS]

01:04:56   to the enterprise software and no one would care of the customers won't care [TS]

01:04:59   of the customers are not the [TS]

01:05:00   using the software Genet enterprise software the customers people buying it [TS]

01:05:03   I think they care about a very different like in our company where we're now [TS]

01:05:07   supporting max more or less officially like I was the first night into the [TS]

01:05:10   company like 45 years ago and now their Macs are everywhere the officially [TS]

01:05:14   supported but to give an example the masseter officially supported have to [TS]

01:05:18   run PGP whole disk encryption and if you're a Mac user like why would they do [TS]

01:05:21   that while in the design file to its awesome everybody loves it [TS]

01:05:24   well because files software meaning it doesn't cater to the needs of the [TS]

01:05:29   enterprise more the needs of the enterprise for like my company feel like [TS]

01:05:32   you know compliance with various industry regulations you have to have [TS]

01:05:36   the ability to report that not just install whole disk encryption all the [TS]

01:05:41   machines but proved in whatever way this ID proof or whatever auditing purposes [TS]

01:05:45   that everyone has an installed in PGP whole disk encryption as enterprise [TS]

01:05:48   software sales in the Enterprise IT SEZ teacher check box on the back of the box [TS]

01:05:53   it doesn't actually exist anymore [TS]

01:05:54   can report that it's enabled on all such and such assistance right by Walt to is [TS]

01:05:59   not enterprise software doesn't have that feature may be out for remote [TS]

01:06:02   desktop does or some other piece of software that the enterprise but if you [TS]

01:06:05   just get a new Mac incomes at Mavericks and you click the check off the firewall [TS]

01:06:08   to check box and enable at all whatever there is no reports central reporting [TS]

01:06:13   structure to know and they need to do that for complaints so of course they're [TS]

01:06:16   gonna buy the software package that says hey I T manager we know that you have to [TS]

01:06:20   do these stupid reporting things is because your legal department tells you [TS]

01:06:22   to our software does that for you and yes of course they're gonna go for that [TS]

01:06:26   and as a user like I just want to run the built-in stuff because PGP whole [TS]

01:06:30   disk encryption bricks I machine every time it runs a minor point update as it [TS]

01:06:33   has many times in the past and like it would be so much easier and cheaper you [TS]

01:06:37   would have to buy these third party product we just thought to its awesome [TS]

01:06:40   everybody loves it and I T department to its credit wants to do that but [TS]

01:06:44   short-term it's like we have PDP PDP PDP fills our bills are reporting compliance [TS]

01:06:49   and this is the destruction in the enterprise is that those customers have [TS]

01:06:53   made that may seem dumb but the real needs and if you're not going to serve [TS]

01:06:56   them some enterprise software company will offer companies a lot to be [TS]

01:06:59   terrible all the other axes as long as they're good long axiomatic to the idea [TS]

01:07:03   department and they usually are done I'm just so glad I don't work or anything [TS]

01:07:07   important [TS]

01:07:08   have liked [TS]

01:07:10   a bring your indie developer to work day bringing people who work from home on [TS]

01:07:17   their own projects and we make them sit through a char seminars and compliance [TS]

01:07:20   training courses / [TS]

01:07:23   I would love to watch Marco just sit there in squirm in be uncomfortable 40 [TS]

01:07:29   seconds into the EHR and you all this is how not to sexually harass her [TS]

01:07:34   co-workers meeting no that wouldn't be a problem the problem would be when you'd [TS]

01:07:37   have me sit down at some Windows PC with some like crap Dell keyboard and and say [TS]

01:07:45   all right here's your for transdermal and you're gonna be writing financial [TS]

01:07:49   management software to follow these rules and do a lot of math and the [TS]

01:07:54   person sitting 18 inches from your elbow oh wait that was Bloomberg and that's [TS]

01:07:59   why didn't take that job I think we're done we good yeah thanks a lot to our [TS]

01:08:08   sponsors this week however while transporter and Squarespace and we will [TS]

01:08:14   see you next week [TS]

01:08:18   now this show they didn't even need to be accidental [TS]

01:08:30   case [TS]

01:08:33   because it was a depth and Marco [TS]

01:09:16   paid so much as to neutral talk about John's car yeah I mean that this is a [TS]

01:09:23   major event you know case you like our local time once every 10 years but like [TS]

01:09:30   last time you got a car john was the iPod even out yet I'm serious my car was [TS]

01:09:37   older than more than ten years old but we had a newer car dealer 2007 car the [TS]

01:09:42   car my wife drives so we had a newish car you know like a 2004 before that and [TS]

01:09:49   I got told their place in the 2007 I was good leaders of our cars wrong with you [TS]

01:09:53   would think would be something I know but I'm thrown off by the whole you know [TS]

01:09:56   model year having very little to do with the actual year distinction but anyway [TS]

01:09:59   we had 2007 comment is a pretty new car but the car I was driving was 2002 Civic [TS]

01:10:05   so yeah and this one i assume I will also have for ten years and they have [TS]

01:10:10   two accords yep how does that feel the most glowing ad for an accord how does [TS]

01:10:20   it feel to have two of them it feels fine I'm John that is glowing as my [TS]

01:10:25   third a card that just that that is like the that is the Honda Accord [TS]

01:10:29   encapsulated into until a few where I don't should I don't share your opinion [TS]

01:10:35   to the Honda Accord I find it so you do I think it's fine now I find it a much [TS]

01:10:40   more interesting car than other similarly priced boring cars Mazda six [TS]

01:10:47   but you know nobody's perfect if I F I test drove the main thing I was test [TS]

01:10:52   driving it for was quite shifter driving position invisibility [TS]

01:10:57   that's what I just didn't like the question shifter or the driving position [TS]

01:11:01   or the visibility or like the ride I guess I would have gotten tester of the [TS]

01:11:04   six but I did like it and so i didnt give me to go and get this i really [TS]

01:11:08   don't like the six looks just icing on the road I would have gone to it was [TS]

01:11:13   like well if the court was terrible I do need a new car getting this car for my [TS]

01:11:16   health is the old car which is going downhill [TS]

01:11:19   but if the court was good I don't see a reason to continue to drag it out so I [TS]

01:11:24   don't even bother test driving the 6 I'm kind of surprised that you're able to [TS]

01:11:28   get a car at all and and be satisfied with it at all because cars even great [TS]

01:11:33   cars have such ridiculous glaring flaws especially the interface and stuff now [TS]

01:11:38   this this still a terrible things only good thing about being a new car every [TS]

01:11:42   ten twelve years or so is that you it's like if you kept like your Mac for years [TS]

01:11:48   and years and didn't have a macro and your place and say you have a macbook [TS]

01:11:53   from five or six years ago any new portable Nike get you be like oh my god [TS]

01:11:59   this is so many things change in that period of time the business computers [TS]

01:12:03   but there are big changes between 2002 and now so I get to see like lets us see [TS]

01:12:08   how far standard equipment has come because I really don't get any options [TS]

01:12:11   are there any interesting options to speak of in the car that I got and so [TS]

01:12:16   also to stop her standard now like my car did not have a little keeping the [TS]

01:12:21   press the lock the doors and that standard now on pretty much every car [TS]

01:12:25   like I don't know if you get a car without in 2007 that wasn't standard are [TS]

01:12:29   2002 oh right sorry my car across the court had a right and that I could see [TS]

01:12:33   the 2007 are kind of in the middle but what else to my car not keep up there [TS]

01:12:39   was a big deal because the kids had to wait until I got into the car had too [TS]

01:12:42   little walk thing because it did have a little button to local there is just [TS]

01:12:45   something to keep up so I had to unlock my door with the key get in and then [TS]

01:12:48   press the little thing is when they get up on their way way way my 94 Saturn [TS]

01:12:54   which of course was white before you even asked you of course linden and I [TS]

01:13:01   had if I recall correctly if you put the key in the driver's door in like double [TS]

01:13:06   turned a quarter turn to the right it would actually on lock all the doors [TS]

01:13:09   from the exterior you're saying your Civic from eight years later didn't do [TS]

01:13:13   that there were sitting in 2002 that had two seater but not myself I'm always [TS]

01:13:18   getting money buying from the bottom line right especially back in the old [TS]

01:13:21   days like the stick shift was always the bottom of the bottom line we all be over [TS]

01:13:25   in cambodia max [TS]

01:13:26   so you know i'm always buying stakes of course I'm always you know I'm not [TS]

01:13:30   buying sports sedans and even those don't come with manuals anymore so I'm [TS]

01:13:34   always getting the cheap criminals like some are things that are first on this [TS]

01:13:38   car for me this is my first car with our seats and only has one else isn't the [TS]

01:13:47   first time this car first cars fog lights now are you a complete tool and [TS]

01:13:51   use them anytime the headlights are on like me or you actually an adult about [TS]

01:13:55   it I don't even know I had tried them on yet I'm assuming it somewhere in the [TS]

01:13:59   same stock as their headlights but sometimes there's a separate but Mike [TS]

01:14:02   off to the left somewhere I don't see myself being a father like you as a [TS]

01:14:07   broken nose first car with dual exhaust exciting new fans I'm pretty sure [TS]

01:14:12   they're real too exhausted to look on the cars could be cosmetic but I'm [TS]

01:14:16   pretty sure it's real and you and you were talking about was a Bluetooth or [TS]

01:14:19   USB connection with the USB connection first car bluetooth is standard on all [TS]

01:14:25   court that's really good that's good to know actually like this I didn't [TS]

01:14:30   actually get the bottom of the bottom line I actually got the this the sport [TS]

01:14:34   level trim is not the bottom line you can get in LAX with a stick shift and I [TS]

01:14:38   didn't so this is the first car that I bought it was slightly more expensive [TS]

01:14:41   than it had to be good I could have done an accord manual trim level which would [TS]

01:14:46   have been less expensive and not at all this fancy stuff and then when you get a [TS]

01:14:49   TX now sport is the name of the turmoil that a separate room level as 18 inch [TS]

01:14:56   wheels first car with 18 inch wheels has the dual exhaust carbon fiber inside it [TS]

01:15:02   has a leather-wrapped steering wheel also a first not heeded of course [TS]

01:15:06   you know it's it's it's very nice that's right it's a very fancy car my first car [TS]

01:15:09   ever bought that it was born 20 grant just barely crossed over that line [TS]

01:15:14   that's still that's a pretty good deal it to get like a really nice car of that [TS]

01:15:19   size class you know even even with with moderate options to get that for just [TS]

01:15:25   over twenty grand is pretty no obvious the Sport trim level comes with all the [TS]

01:15:29   stuff like this [TS]

01:15:30   optional dealer installed a dime crap that you can get I think but I don't [TS]

01:15:32   think there's any other options that you get for it to speak of are maybe I [TS]

01:15:35   wasn't looking hard enough but yeah I'm just taking it was a pretty good deal [TS]

01:15:40   car shopping of stock so whatever but I got done in three day weekend I i always [TS]

01:15:46   I love car shopping in theory and then when it comes time to actually go to the [TS]

01:15:50   dealerships and try to test drive anything and try to find anything it's [TS]

01:15:54   such a pain in the butt end as quickly as possible [TS]

01:15:58   yeah it's funny you say that I went with Sarah and I went with a friend of ours [TS]

01:16:03   and she's looking into perhaps either and as for its of course I made a [TS]

01:16:09   drive-in m3 at the local BMW dealer and this particular m3 was pretty busted it [TS]

01:16:14   was no way it and it had the prior version of I Drive which I'd never [TS]

01:16:18   actually seen before and oh my goodness all the stories are right it is that bad [TS]

01:16:22   but anyway we want to test drive this car and i was thinkin maybe I'll take it [TS]

01:16:27   for a little spin it was a six-speed because she actually wants a six-speed [TS]

01:16:31   and and I was all excited about it and the process to get in the car took [TS]

01:16:35   forever once we got out of the car took forever the car was kind of all busted [TS]

01:16:39   up and like the second gear crunched I think the couple wheels were out of out [TS]

01:16:44   of balance sheet we felt the rear tires and they had no trade yet the fronts [TS]

01:16:49   suspiciously had a lot of tread is not good times but yeah you're absolutely [TS]

01:16:54   right that the actual act of buying a car is terrible or even test driving a [TS]

01:16:58   car is terrible on this was a used one it wasn't even like it was a new No [TS]

01:17:03   course I think I've gotten the swing of buying cars but it's just a special [TS]

01:17:08   Karzai by its not there's not a lot of drama involved there's no rarity there's [TS]

01:17:14   no real hunting down of the cars nonsense on decor [TS]

01:17:18   that's more like it is a little bit difficult to find the stick shift [TS]

01:17:23   trying to search for them you know minor dealers might not have them in stock but [TS]

01:17:27   they can get the final months I am surprised that you were able to find one [TS]

01:17:32   so easy to test that's usually you can get them to order you one maybe but to [TS]

01:17:36   actually find a stick shift to test drive a dealer's is pretty rare these [TS]

01:17:40   days the internet I did internet searches for dealers in your area who [TS]

01:17:44   have this thing called around as well but you know just a combination of the [TS]

01:17:48   Internet calling around the bike that was my first order of business was first [TS]

01:17:51   find one of these things that I can test drive to see if I like it and once I [TS]

01:17:55   found it then started a new phase of the surcharges I know exactly the car want [TS]

01:17:59   done to the turmoil in color and then just go price shopping and that's always [TS]

01:18:02   annoying because nobody wants you to talk to them or coming to a dealer or do [TS]

01:18:07   anything without completing its sales of every single one of them is like this is [TS]

01:18:10   not going to end in a sale price shopping [TS]

01:18:14   nobody likes that I tried to do this thing a friend of mine did it was like [TS]

01:18:19   you passed $200 we do all the crap for you and we hope we save you more than [TS]

01:18:24   $200 on the price of the car and he was very satisfied with Saracens local [TS]

01:18:29   website doesn't but the website says they're not taking any more orders wife [TS]

01:18:33   says it was 2006 according to a 2007 I told you can never remember them all [TS]

01:18:37   year versus the anyway I think he's got served so that service that does that [TS]

01:18:43   car buying thing we're not doing that anymore maybe they were overbooked or [TS]

01:18:46   maybe they're going into business or I don't know so I couldn't do that and [TS]

01:18:50   then I had heard the Costco has a car pricing thing that was similar and where [TS]

01:18:55   Costco member so I tried doing that and that's like fill out this thing and tell [TS]

01:19:00   us what car you want and will direct you to a dealer in terms of the line one [TS]

01:19:04   dealer an area that does the Costco thing and so did the thing on the [TS]

01:19:07   internet and filled out to stay in a semi send email instead and come down to [TS]

01:19:11   dealer Michael onto that site called the dealer in today to discuss things you [TS]

01:19:14   tell me [TS]

01:19:15   you know what is the Costco price of his car's audio as though to give you a [TS]

01:19:19   price that they can't tell you on the web site and it's a no haggle price and [TS]

01:19:23   here it is so we can tell you that the price you have to come into the dealer [TS]

01:19:27   which of course they want you to come to do whatever it wants you to come and [TS]

01:19:31   again you can kind of room the point of this convo me if it's an Ohio thing and [TS]

01:19:34   it was a good deal I just want to know what the price was so you don't have to [TS]

01:19:37   drive all out there that need to make a list like I am here because you told me [TS]

01:19:41   I had to drive here so you would tell me the price now please tell me the press [TS]

01:19:43   and they don't want you to go as they tell you the price that would be like ok [TS]

01:19:49   thank you for the price I'm not going to leave they want to say well you know [TS]

01:19:51   anywhere you want about what's gonna take to get me into cards they go [TS]

01:19:55   through all that business or whatever so naturally I got a reasonable deal like [TS]

01:19:59   this one of the web I'm searching for all these websites for you know where [TS]

01:20:04   does the invoice price for this car and what our local deals like a reverend as [TS]

01:20:09   a million different websites do this also looking up the Blue Book value of [TS]

01:20:13   my car thing your trading it in my google 7 everything and at one of the [TS]

01:20:18   dealers [TS]

01:20:19   the bad cop bad cop guy pulled up on his computer one of the websites I had been [TS]

01:20:29   looking at the ship but here's here's the range of prices that people playing [TS]

01:20:33   locally and it's like to meet you go okay do not look at that website ever [TS]

01:20:36   again be the dealer is showing its EU the information on that website is not [TS]

01:20:40   going to help you at all and I think I got a reasonable deal I didn't get an [TS]

01:20:47   amazing deal like I got on my wife's car cuz I was just an unbelievable that was [TS]

01:20:52   because it was like a car that someone else had ordered and put a bunch of crap [TS]

01:20:55   on them bailed out on the deal and they had a car card up with all these [TS]

01:20:58   aftermarket extras that nobody wanted it was a stick shift and we scooped it up [TS]

01:21:01   and took it off there and so can expect to get a deal every year so I gotta ok [TS]

01:21:06   I got a pretty good deal on the trade in considering the car was covered with a [TS]

01:21:10   dense did they give you more than 10 bucks yeah that that's like the perfect [TS]

01:21:14   use of dealer trade and dealer trade ins like they will undergo all the crap out [TS]

01:21:19   of that of the price and so it's worth it to just like if you have a car that [TS]

01:21:22   that's going to be really hard to get much value privately perfect utilitarian [TS]

01:21:27   yeah because no individual want the car and it didn't have an air condition [TS]

01:21:31   compressor the reason I was getting two cars air conditioning compressor will [TS]

01:21:34   cost over $1000 to fix according to the way too expensive deal or whatever it's [TS]

01:21:38   like it's the end of the time so I had a car that was ugly [TS]

01:21:43   there was a stick shift covered in dense and no air conditioning and like this [TS]

01:21:47   the dealer ended up buying from roughly 7,000 1549 Michael that's terrible as [TS]

01:21:52   the Blue Book value sands acorn then the Blue Book value of the car if it was not [TS]

01:21:56   dented or I guess you put the conditions like their whatever and an air condition [TS]

01:22:01   compressor worked it was like 930 500 dependent but that was not deducting for [TS]

01:22:05   the compressor I ended up going 2500 for the training for 2500 for a 2002 I mean [TS]

01:22:12   who knows like there they could you just assume that off the price you know like [TS]

01:22:16   they really give you 2500 your thing is just on the go shooting tactic to bottom [TS]

01:22:20   line is I gave him about twenty grand I got a new cars and I give them my old [TS]

01:22:23   car so the end [TS]