00:00:12 ◼ ► And so our friend of the show Jonathan Mann That's I'm a double and who is the guy who wrote the initial theme song [TS]
00:00:19 ◼ ► and the slightly beloved bleeps and bloops version which is the one that John likes but nobody else does. [TS]
00:00:26 ◼ ► He took it upon himself to write a new version and we sprinkle that into the show or I should say Mark [TS]
00:00:30 ◼ ► and sprinkle that into the show. You did you hear. Apparently on the after dark for this week's back to work. [TS]
00:00:36 ◼ ► Merlin man our friend Marlon covered it briefly and said he was working on a full cover. [TS]
00:00:40 ◼ ► I'm very much looking forward to hearing that and. Because the brief part that he did sounded really good. [TS]
00:00:56 ◼ ► and we will play it look out the course does nothing for you it this is like. You should work for free for exposure. [TS]
00:01:04 ◼ ► He does this now he does like style parodies like he did a lot of that with the voice of the male chimp. [TS]
00:01:15 ◼ ► But anyway if I'm real listening he's doing a style parody I would like to request an R.E.M. Style parity. [TS]
00:01:29 ◼ ► Speaking of working for exposure always gets the Penny Arcade thing. But first we have some follow up. [TS]
00:01:40 ◼ ► All right I mean I will keep talking about photo stream. And I don't remember where this thing came from. But how you. [TS]
00:01:47 ◼ ► Dave who was last time I wanted him to pronounce because he can agree on how he wants people to pronounce his last name. [TS]
00:01:58 ◼ ► He posted a link to this Knowledge Base article that looks like it is recent has a recent date on it [TS]
00:02:08 ◼ ► And the relevant passage here is it provides information that previously was not provided by any other document that [TS]
00:02:18 ◼ ► It's information about motivations and that I think is what a lot of people are missing [TS]
00:02:34 ◼ ► and I cried for thirty days to give your devices plenty of time to connect to i Cloud and download them. [TS]
00:02:40 ◼ ► That's the key piece of missing information that I think is going to a lot of confusion. [TS]
00:02:48 ◼ ► That's not an individual device for thirty days so all your other devices can pull the stuff down. [TS]
00:02:55 ◼ ► and everything whatever don't matter because bottom line is it's both a just be a temporary holding pen for your stuff. [TS]
00:03:01 ◼ ► And it's most to stay there long enough for you to pull it down a notch on your other devices. [TS]
00:03:07 ◼ ► As any sort of solution to any sort of ever pick like solution do to you know hold all my photos for me. [TS]
00:03:13 ◼ ► Doesn't matter what the limits are doesn't matter thing else bottom line is it's not going to be there for more than [TS]
00:03:17 ◼ ► thirty days the hope is just a holding area so I think that help that clarifies for me. [TS]
00:03:22 ◼ ► And as I see that from Apple because I was my impression of how it worked or reading all the other things [TS]
00:03:26 ◼ ► but seeing Apple explain. You know that simple sense explaining the motivation of the service. [TS]
00:03:33 ◼ ► when Taishan detail that soon it will hold all your photos over never the intention of this feature is just holding [TS]
00:03:38 ◼ ► been an Apple saying it themselves so I feel a little bit. I feel like I understand poetry and live a more now. [TS]
00:03:43 ◼ ► And now I know enough to not really pay attention to it no matter what they do with the limits. [TS]
00:03:48 ◼ ► And speaking of a photograph threat of like in the show it's here that have almost nothing to say about except for. [TS]
00:03:54 ◼ ► Here's another one of these things is called Space Monkey dot com. Tribble dubbed Space Monkey dot com. [TS]
00:03:58 ◼ ► And it looks like some kind of hardware device. Combined with a software service kind of like ever picks. [TS]
00:04:02 ◼ ► The Web site is it actually looks just like transporter actually. Like if you look at it. [TS]
00:04:11 ◼ ► and we should disclose transporter is a frequent sponsor of our show so take this with a grain of salt however it [TS]
00:04:19 ◼ ► but they have a whole software component to where it's like it's both it's more like a media manager it's not just like [TS]
00:04:24 ◼ ► arbitrary file storage transporter is sort of like application agnostic it is a place for data. [TS]
00:04:32 ◼ ► And this looks like it's trying to be a hybrid of of transport ever backs but I looked at his website for a while [TS]
00:04:38 ◼ ► and is totally like a Web three point zero He kind of bootstrap built web site with animated stuff. [TS]
00:04:45 ◼ ► I could not for the life of me figure out any like actual technical information about this thing. [TS]
00:04:49 ◼ ► So yeah it's pretty light on the information and and pretty heavy on like the marketing titles and and graphics [TS]
00:04:56 ◼ ► but actual information is hard to come by this could be awesome could be terrible I don't know I just want to throw it [TS]
00:05:01 ◼ ► out there as yet another one of these things. That is trying to solve the problem of where we proly joke. [TS]
00:05:11 ◼ ► and how it was kind of like an enterprise focus version or Dropbox and either said [TS]
00:05:23 ◼ ► Also it's not called Box dot net anymore there was the old name that I said in the past though it's. [TS]
00:05:28 ◼ ► And it was not self hosted they host it for you and the difference is between this [TS]
00:05:32 ◼ ► and Dropbox according to this box employ are that they manage their own data centers they don't put stuff in S three so [TS]
00:05:38 ◼ ► there's little bit more. You know. Deterministic security about the data is not just put in another bucket. [TS]
00:05:44 ◼ ► Through another third party just one you know box stores the data. They have admin tools and report. [TS]
00:05:49 ◼ ► Again stuff that gives them more oversight on the data so if you need some sort of order to get reporting they can [TS]
00:06:05 ◼ ► I think if you go to Boston other redirects But anyway go to Bucks dot com and you'll find. It seems like a box is. [TS]
00:06:14 ◼ ► It's one of the services that like has like a billion users. Effectively and Geeks in our circles. [TS]
00:06:20 ◼ ► Almost never even considered existing almost never think about it because it's enzymes are used right it's not used by [TS]
00:06:26 ◼ ► mac nervous laptops of use like. You know in the enterprise a lot and a lot of P.C. [TS]
00:06:30 ◼ ► Users use it and it's as if it's like stumble upon when one stumble upon first became big or even more recently [TS]
00:06:37 ◼ ► when Pinterest. Started growing like crazy and the entire like tech geek world was basically ignoring it. [TS]
00:06:44 ◼ ► Because you know it was. It was so popular among women. And the tech world is so dominated by men the lease of the. [TS]
00:06:55 ◼ ► and all of a sudden rose oh my God this is huge that I think that's how boxes like it's. [TS]
00:07:05 ◼ ► And now that I'm using it every day now and it does it work similarly to Dropbox but with an enterprise bent. [TS]
00:07:11 ◼ ► Could they have picked a different name at least I mean if they're going to go from Boston to something else could they [TS]
00:07:15 ◼ ► have not made this very similar to drop box service name box. Yeah well. They've got to strengthen the enterprise. [TS]
00:07:24 ◼ ► You want to drop your sort your software used bucks. Wow. I thought the box predated Dropbox. [TS]
00:07:34 ◼ ► It's been around for a while anyway it's not some new thing. Was there something called X. Tried before B.M.W. [TS]
00:07:39 ◼ ► That wasn't like a something kind of similar would give you like an X. A drive letter on your Windows P.C. [TS]
00:07:58 ◼ ► The Chad is saying that box dot net because at the time it was called box that is two thousand [TS]
00:08:02 ◼ ► and five Dropbox two thousand and eight hour right. Obviously that matters a lot now. [TS]
00:08:15 ◼ ► Running Disk Utility as John assigned us in the last episode. Right so Captain paranoid. [TS]
00:08:20 ◼ ► Explain to us that we should be running Disk Utility on an hourly basis. And verifying. Everything under the sun. [TS]
00:08:27 ◼ ► No repair you've got to repair verify while the verify you got to repair my apologies your correction or to repair. [TS]
00:08:35 ◼ ► but if you run on a laptop like I do because you've got to reboot and see recovery mode blah blah blah. [TS]
00:08:41 ◼ ► Well anyway so I as I've mentioned numerous times I have two fifteen inch higher as anti-glare macro pros with optical [TS]
00:08:55 ◼ ► The point is the point is I tried it on both of them. And one has an S.S.D. One does not. [TS]
00:09:02 ◼ ► And both of them had errors which were able to be fixed by Disk Utility So as much as I begrudge Captain paranoid for [TS]
00:09:10 ◼ ► making me worry about something that I didn't really feel like worrying about it ended up it was for the best so thank [TS]
00:09:14 ◼ ► you John. And by the way I do recommend running a marathon your boot drive is then you don't have to reboot like the. [TS]
00:09:22 ◼ ► You will be able to just run verifying your boot if you start to walk away from the computer because it will totally [TS]
00:09:26 ◼ ► make your computer. Unusable. But just didn't do it when you go in for lunch or something and. [TS]
00:09:34 ◼ ► I only recommend repairing externals because if verify finds errors the very next thing you're going to do is repair [TS]
00:09:42 ◼ ► So when you drive your only choices verify so do that on an external drives in my latest to repair because that's the. [TS]
00:09:47 ◼ ► That's authentic loser. If there are any errors and there's not any error is their equivalent. [TS]
00:09:55 ◼ ► or even is it possible to do this on a network time machines like we have it with this analogy set up where. [TS]
00:10:03 ◼ ► You know open source whatever component to host Time Machine shares which I think are stored as giant sparse images [TS]
00:10:11 ◼ ► Does any part of this apply to those Yeah I know any volume you can mount you can ANY age of us. [TS]
00:10:23 ◼ ► Like that's what amounts but it but it does its thing. All right then you about didn't see it in Disk Utility. [TS]
00:10:29 ◼ ► but you have to make it might like Time Machine does this sneaky they were all connected this analogy [TS]
00:10:34 ◼ ► and mount device you look at your desktop you can see it appear sometimes but it's not you know. [TS]
00:10:38 ◼ ► It makes it all go away when the backup just on you know. Sometimes in a seat at all and you can manually. Now. [TS]
00:10:44 ◼ ► Just like you know just today I learned about double click the farce bundle that yeah yeah yeah yeah. OK All right. [TS]
00:10:51 ◼ ► Moving right along the whole the whole of oh you know go away. MARTIN Oh yeah. I might have done my homework. [TS]
00:10:58 ◼ ► There's a surprise. Well John told me that not to run it while you're using it. And so I've been using it. [TS]
00:11:08 ◼ ► All right well you didn't do your homework it's OK lots of other people did who filled up the survey should mention [TS]
00:11:14 ◼ ► but after the show last week I said you know what we should get some information on this. [TS]
00:11:20 ◼ ► and decided I'm going to run disutility L.-I desks just like they talked about on the show [TS]
00:11:35 ◼ ► And I tweeted I think I did an app that net and and Marco put it in the show notes but it wasn't mentioned on the show. [TS]
00:11:46 ◼ ► and I did stuff in about a couple of programs a couple tweets here one of them. One person said. This from D.C. Up. [TS]
00:11:52 ◼ ► Ran Disk Utility last week and it reported errors rebooted and repair was not possible. [TS]
00:12:01 ◼ ► and it will say there's a problem they'll try to repair it will say Sorry couldn't repair and then it's OK or. [TS]
00:12:07 ◼ ► and that's not reassuring ten people handballs like your own no I said there was there is but now there's not a guess. [TS]
00:12:12 ◼ ► Everything's fine but instead you get this feeling of unease about. You know you know about that. [TS]
00:12:17 ◼ ► Here's another one random you tell him I started discus by R Y B. I'm not look after the first time in over a year. [TS]
00:12:28 ◼ ► So that person got seven here by the disgrace back because it apparently is of us. Plus the lost track of the. [TS]
00:12:33 ◼ ► The free block out. Well. And you know it's like their trees right so if you. If you have a missing. [TS]
00:12:56 ◼ ► And lots of reports of what happened to me with my Time Machine volume which is it had errors that I want to repair [TS]
00:13:09 ◼ ► Last week verify disk is in theory a read only operation Repair Disk is going to make changes to your disk. [TS]
00:13:14 ◼ ► Those changes may be harmful to your disk but if it's got areas anyway you say well what areas [TS]
00:13:22 ◼ ► You can take that into account say look this thing has errors but before even try to repair. [TS]
00:13:27 ◼ ► Let me make sure that I have like this goes back to the multiple backup thing. You know. [TS]
00:13:33 ◼ ► As I described in last week's show could make the disk even worse off than it was. It doesn't mean that it was. [TS]
00:13:40 ◼ ► but it could make things worse so I always have multiple bags before you start messing with anything before you start [TS]
00:13:50 ◼ ► And I don't know what else to do people like you found out what should do if that's your only backup and it has errors. [TS]
00:13:58 ◼ ► Make a second backup from now before you start screwing with the other one right don't. Don't just rush into it. [TS]
00:14:20 ◼ ► Services like that that that just shows you right there like you know just one volume [TS]
00:14:33 ◼ ► You know fix it from one to the other but like I maybe I waited too long didn't feel paranoid soon enough [TS]
00:14:39 ◼ ► and hadn't checked it was going to say we saw a really good tweet from grading nearly who said. [TS]
00:14:54 ◼ ► If you only have one backup that's effectively not really having a backup of at all especially if it's colocated with [TS]
00:15:13 ◼ ► or many things local although I dread ever having to restore from are those that really is my like my last last last [TS]
00:15:24 ◼ ► but if it doesn't burn down that I don't want to have to go. That are unless I'm like you know. [TS]
00:15:29 ◼ ► Away from my computer and I want to grab a file from back then it's kind of handed. [TS]
00:15:32 ◼ ► Use whatever the I was up is fear thing and grab stuff. Yeah club back of his like it's. [TS]
00:15:37 ◼ ► You can't really test it without just trying to pull a file off of it like. You can't really. [TS]
00:15:42 ◼ ► You don't have the same kind of reassurance that you do with like a super duper super duper clone you can just boot [TS]
00:15:47 ◼ ► from it. And just Seaver these OK boot from it once a month or something and just test it. [TS]
00:15:52 ◼ ► You can't really do that with claw back and you just got you know you can try to pull a file off it but it's kind of. [TS]
00:15:56 ◼ ► You know a process and if you ever do have to restore doing a full restore one you might be. [TS]
00:16:01 ◼ ► You know downloading a terabyte of data off the Internet which might take a while. [TS]
00:16:05 ◼ ► So it's you know it is always good to you know at the cloud backup really is your last resort. [TS]
00:16:15 ◼ ► I think it's a very good set up for most people like us you know. If you have extra hard line around. [TS]
00:16:22 ◼ ► But regular plus Time Machine plus the back please I think is fine and or the other alternative is like I said. [TS]
00:16:30 ◼ ► So that you don't end up a situation they probably don't both go bad exactly the same time my one of them goes first [TS]
00:16:36 ◼ ► and if you're running it off enough. You'll get in a situation where one went bad but one is good and you can quickly. [TS]
00:16:45 ◼ ► If you only have two things your computer and a time machine disk. And the time machine. [TS]
00:16:53 ◼ ► and then try to copy the backup to the soon as your racist time machine just now your data is in one place [TS]
00:17:05 ◼ ► and one is bad a bad back up is better than no backup do not arrays that disk just don't touch it put it aside. [TS]
00:17:14 ◼ ► This is why we want companies to take care of the stuff for us because this is way too much for a regular person to [TS]
00:17:18 ◼ ► handle anyone listening to this is like I don't want to think about apply agree I don't want to think about it either. [TS]
00:17:22 ◼ ► And I'd also don't think about bit rot in the fact that none of these things all this age of us. [TS]
00:17:28 ◼ ► Plus checks are just checking the meditator they're not checking the data the data could be totally hosed we have no [TS]
00:17:32 ◼ ► idea what state the data isn't. I don't think so the survey. The server that I sent out there. [TS]
00:17:43 ◼ ► Think maybe the sample or maybe slightly biased because it's a group of people who listen to a nerdy podcast [TS]
00:17:48 ◼ ► or who follow or nerdy person on Twitter. And maybe those people are more likely to do. [TS]
00:17:52 ◼ ► Complicated things with their disks that in turn could cause more errors or something. [TS]
00:18:01 ◼ ► People didn't know whether they were going to find errors or not before they ran Disk Utility. [TS]
00:18:05 ◼ ► Right so it's not like only the people who found area still does out the survey was. [TS]
00:18:13 ◼ ► None of those people OTA magine knew beforehand Well what they were going to find. So despite the sampling. [TS]
00:18:19 ◼ ► The self selection of the people who take the survey I'm hoping it's not like that only the people who found there is [TS]
00:18:25 ◼ ► filled out the survey. And the people who didn't find errors. Didn't bother to fill the survey. Because I guess. [TS]
00:18:30 ◼ ► I don't know. I mean. I don't know how statistically valid this is let's just say. But anyway. [TS]
00:18:38 ◼ ► Seven at the time I pulled the the data from it seven hundred fifty eight people had responded to the survey. [TS]
00:18:43 ◼ ► Wow first. The first question was this is how smart if you listened up so forty X. and All tech podcasts. [TS]
00:18:52 ◼ ► Plus alliances in compass all the discs I don't want to ask them individually or whatever. Did it find any errors. [TS]
00:18:57 ◼ ► So if you have five disk new find errors on one of them you would say yes this is just basically saying you ran Disk [TS]
00:19:05 ◼ ► And I didn't ask them how many disk you have around evolves ergs I don't want this to be true that we are going to a [TS]
00:19:16 ◼ ► Function able to grab so I want you to to guess what you think you know. Did you find errors. [TS]
00:19:25 ◼ ► and then after the sponsor break I'll tell you the answer. For if you should guess. All right. [TS]
00:19:28 ◼ ► My guess is the percentage of respondents who had errors found was thirty percent. I would guess. Seventy percent. [TS]
00:19:43 ◼ ► But I'm hoping that your right Marco because then maybe John will stop whining about each of us plus never like The [TS]
00:19:59 ◼ ► when this episode is brought to you in part by our friends at Warby Parker they put the sponsors a couple months ago [TS]
00:20:06 ◼ ► they're awesome so. Warby Parker believe the prescription glasses simply should not cost three hundred dollars or more. [TS]
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00:20:40 ◼ ► And every pair comes with a hard case including cloth. So you don't need to buy any overpriced accessories with them. [TS]
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00:21:32 ◼ ► I love pull are some of us personally. If you ever had non-polarized you really don't know what you're missing. [TS]
00:21:38 ◼ ► And this really you know ninety five dollars as the base cost is really a great price even for non-prescription [TS]
00:21:45 ◼ ► So we did the spot a few months ago and I had to my wife if come in and because she'd ordered two pairs. [TS]
00:21:53 ◼ ► And I asked her for an update tonight see how she's like an M and she still uses them. [TS]
00:21:58 ◼ ► Almost every day and she still real like them she has one pair of sunglasses one pair prescription. [TS]
00:22:03 ◼ ► And she loves She's a hard case. The come with a really nice and high quality is so she'd love that too. [TS]
00:22:08 ◼ ► And since I went back to look inside I could actually use some sunglasses myself for driving with my current Paris kind [TS]
00:22:15 ◼ ► Because I bought it from some shady shop in New Zealand for no money and I don't know if you know no brand name. [TS]
00:22:21 ◼ ► God knows what it is. But yeah so I'm looking for looking for these myself because they're really good. [TS]
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00:23:05 ◼ ► For free three day shipping. So thanks a lot to worry Parker for sponsoring the show. You know I told this story. [TS]
00:23:11 ◼ ► When we when they sponsored an episode twenty six and. When I did the free trial on thing. [TS]
00:23:21 ◼ ► and then two pairs that I didn't think were me at all and it ended up that because I was able to try those. [TS]
00:23:31 ◼ ► That I didn't expect to like at all and I just thought the let me see what happens. [TS]
00:23:35 ◼ ► And I love the sunglasses and I have an inevitably I will break them because I'm an clots [TS]
00:23:42 ◼ ► But I will be devastated when I do because I really really do like you mention the case that they come [TS]
00:23:53 ◼ ► This is the most impressive glasses case they only have my prescription sunglasses that I've ever seen in my life. [TS]
00:23:57 ◼ ► It is nice. Gigantic. And like it looks like you could run it over with a car and your glasses of be fine. [TS]
00:24:04 ◼ ► The little box of the should be with a glass that was impressive but the case. Was I was also impressed by that. [TS]
00:24:24 ◼ ► What do you think is reasonable for the job of the file system is basically to keep track of where your crap is and. [TS]
00:24:34 ◼ ► That on thirty percent of the max out there are so many are sampling is significant. [TS]
00:24:39 ◼ ► Are is representative of the mass of Nike is that it's OK for about thirty percent of the time for there to for each of [TS]
00:24:46 ◼ ► us plus group for there to be potentially did a strong areas in case you think seventy to try to be dramatic [TS]
00:24:56 ◼ ► That have seventy percent of the max out there had errors on there you know the age of us plus errors on the disc we [TS]
00:25:01 ◼ ► are not hardware problems they're just software problems like not keeping track of that would be on reason apply for [TS]
00:25:08 ◼ ► but now that you have to expect it wanted two percent are going to have problems some person kicked the plug out [TS]
00:25:12 ◼ ► or there were some crazy like there's always going to be a little bit of bugs or whatever [TS]
00:25:15 ◼ ► but I think once you start to get into double digit percentages. That's not like an aberration like. [TS]
00:25:21 ◼ ► There was a power outage in the middle of the thing and I didn't notice and it just built up or. [TS]
00:25:28 ◼ ► Yeah I would say like ten percent should be cause for concern because then that's I would say anything over. You know. [TS]
00:25:36 ◼ ► That's come to some kind of systemic issue like bugs in the software that are not just cosmic rays [TS]
00:25:42 ◼ ► or one off occurrences are our hardware related or maybe they could be are related but it seems like. [TS]
00:25:49 ◼ ► A lot so I don't know what I expected these numbers to be but I kind of felt like they were going to be like. [TS]
00:25:54 ◼ ► My guess would have been like fifteen eighteen percent that would have him I guess for. [TS]
00:26:02 ◼ ► But surely it's not on like more than maybe twenty percent because I know I find the errors [TS]
00:26:06 ◼ ► and I know if I go to someone's computer and they never understood tell you they find errors [TS]
00:26:12 ◼ ► and they know about Disk Utility I don't have to explain to anybody where it was like all these people found it [TS]
00:26:17 ◼ ► themselves and ran it and did all the stuff themselves so maybe they'd run it before or whatever. [TS]
00:26:25 ◼ ► Did you find any errors again this is across all the disks that you try and I didn't ask them how many. [TS]
00:26:32 ◼ ► Oh methadone Marco Marco is closer but that is shockingly close to half that's really bad. And that. [TS]
00:26:38 ◼ ► That is much higher than I thought it would be I was thinking eighteen twenty percent. [TS]
00:26:46 ◼ ► Second question was if the errors were found and was the repair function able to repair their. [TS]
00:26:57 ◼ ► or didn't answer that question right I'm giving you percentages of like out of all the people who attempted to fix the [TS]
00:27:03 ◼ ► error what percentage of those people with this you tell you were not with a third party told I was any else. [TS]
00:27:08 ◼ ► How successful was this utility repairing there is care to guess what they put on it is there. [TS]
00:27:17 ◼ ► Well see I think would be more than that I would think you'd be closer to ninety. Marco gets it again said. [TS]
00:27:29 ◼ ► A little bit worse than a one in four shot Disk Utility being able to fix your errors. [TS]
00:27:34 ◼ ► I don't know how represent of exults are but they are worse than I expected because I would have expected it. [TS]
00:27:39 ◼ ► Areas to be on far fewer than forty four percent and I would expect would have expected disutility six [TS]
00:27:44 ◼ ► or eight to be like. It seems like to me I just expected that we six that I was our ninety five percent. [TS]
00:27:51 ◼ ► So that shows those errors weren't just one tiny letter is easy to fix but every type of [TS]
00:27:55 ◼ ► or this utility confect Now some people reported to me that if you didn't a single user mode and you do F. A C. K. [TS]
00:28:00 ◼ ► Manually. We're just more or less the same thing as this can tell a dozen of the covers. [TS]
00:28:04 ◼ ► But I think we're using more you don't have any contention for that the catalog fall you're the only process running [TS]
00:28:09 ◼ ► and some people are saying that it actually does repairs Disk Utility can't do I'm not sure how much truth there is to [TS]
00:28:16 ◼ ► If you get a disk this can to leave says it can repair you can reboot into single user mode if you're comfortable with [TS]
00:28:21 ◼ ► And I feel like I should explain it because if you don't know what it is then you're not comfortable with it [TS]
00:28:27 ◼ ► and run have to seek a couple of options and have it attempt to repair you the lion king again. [TS]
00:28:32 ◼ ► If you're not comfortable this don't try to do it it's very easy to do the wrong thing from the command line in single [TS]
00:28:36 ◼ ► user mode. But if you're comfortable with it it's worth a try and that's pretty that's pretty bad and. [TS]
00:28:43 ◼ ► I don't want to encourage you to go on another fossils from rant but that I mean. Well. [TS]
00:28:49 ◼ ► The it's we've been this will mean we haven't beaten a source Johns beaten a source. But anyway. [TS]
00:29:01 ◼ ► And that's not even your data forget who knows what state your data is this is just keeping track of where stuff is [TS]
00:29:07 ◼ ► that stuff the same as your data is the same as when you wrote it. Who the hell knows. [TS]
00:29:11 ◼ ► Age of us puzzles now doesn't care. All it saying is I put something on disk and I saw that you track of where it is. [TS]
00:29:23 ◼ ► but I didn't keep track of that bucket of random garbage that is a certain length. [TS]
00:29:27 ◼ ► And that's the job of the files as a keep track of the information about where the files are. [TS]
00:29:31 ◼ ► We wish that it would also say oh and by the way the date is the same as when you wrote it [TS]
00:29:35 ◼ ► but each of us plus there's nothing a totally silent. Just trust the hardware and says. [TS]
00:29:41 ◼ ► If it is if it isn't nothing we can do about it now you have no way of knowing a lot of people have talked about the. [TS]
00:29:48 ◼ ► What is a call. There's some tool that I can never remember the name of that i've actually. [TS]
00:29:57 ◼ ► They will crawl your disk and put little checksums. Like in the direct age directory checksums of all the files. [TS]
00:30:04 ◼ ► You can then or recheck some them and compare it against the confines of the file at least then you'll know if OK well.. [TS]
00:30:16 ◼ ► So something must have changed I can tell you what it was and I can't fix it. And I can't even tell you if the state. [TS]
00:30:22 ◼ ► If you're just going around the checksums was in a known good state it was just merely the state it was [TS]
00:30:28 ◼ ► but it does have to crawl your whole disk it does have to read everything go by the data off your disk to make the [TS]
00:30:37 ◼ ► or something like that to be more efficient about it but this is. I don't really recommend this tool because it's. [TS]
00:30:45 ◼ ► And it's really not the correct solution a correct solution is a file system that does is [TS]
00:30:49 ◼ ► when the data is on its way in and out. And we don't have that yet so we just you know. Cross our fingers and pray. [TS]
00:31:01 ◼ ► Now recommending test I can I can remember men the episode of the debug Paga that was on recently where me [TS]
00:31:09 ◼ ► and several other people talked about file systems and Mavericks among other things [TS]
00:31:18 ◼ ► when those mins worth listening to my favorite thing about it was the two of the people there X. [TS]
00:31:24 ◼ ► and it's a lot better than just people who you know have seen Apple from afar talking about stuff on that show. [TS]
00:31:30 ◼ ► The rest of us could offer opinions on what we think Apple might or might not be like insider might [TS]
00:31:42 ◼ ► and I was that was exciting the two Apple people were who was around the Aslan and Danielle jacket. [TS]
00:31:52 ◼ ► And then Guy English was like doing Reggie. You know those guys. Well was only one guy. Wow. Moving on. [TS]
00:32:03 ◼ ► So do you want to talk about X. Box one. Yeah I think we should I think it's important. John. Yeah. X. [TS]
00:32:16 ◼ ► Box One launch and had its own little press release they said it sold more than one million consuls worldwide. [TS]
00:32:23 ◼ ► It's not apples to apples comparison but the bottom line is I think both are more or less supply constrained on launch. [TS]
00:32:32 ◼ ► That just because the early adopters are rabid for a new console as I imagine they will be doesn't necessarily mean it [TS]
00:32:38 ◼ ► is console generation is going to do as well as the previous or the one before that. [TS]
00:32:44 ◼ ► It's not you know if they had both tanked on launch it would be a very very bad sign so they're not both hanging on [TS]
00:32:57 ◼ ► Box One Jesus hundred dollars more than a Playstation three and people did not appear to be price sensitive [TS]
00:33:02 ◼ ► or the supply was not enough to reveal the price sensitivity of consumers because everyone who wanted a P.S. [TS]
00:33:11 ◼ ► Box one so we'll revisit this in a couple months to see how the consul's are doing but so far so good. [TS]
00:33:17 ◼ ► I do wonder how many of the buyers were scalpers. Because it was any new electronics launch the tie profile. [TS]
00:33:25 ◼ ► Which is pretty much every new game console. And every new i Phone and me the most new tablet and stuff. [TS]
00:33:31 ◼ ► There's always a pretty large contingent of scalpers who are just buying it to put it on e Bay [TS]
00:33:35 ◼ ► or to bring it to countries where it isn't available yet to charge a premium. So say so. Opening day. [TS]
00:33:42 ◼ ► or eyeopening we can number you should always go into with some skepticism because some of it is going to be that [TS]
00:33:46 ◼ ► and for different products it's a different. Portion of it but it certainly always substantial. [TS]
00:33:53 ◼ ► So I think I'll be more interesting to see what happened then you know. Two months five months. You know. [TS]
00:34:03 ◼ ► when any of these consuls gets a really good hit game that schools have to the Consul because that. [TS]
00:34:09 ◼ ► That's really what makes the console market is is. You know must have killer games and. So far there's none. [TS]
00:34:15 ◼ ► On the new systems on and any of three of them. I'm not I'm not sure the X. Box one. [TS]
00:34:19 ◼ ► When I was thinking about him are not sure the X. Box One needs the killer app beyond X. Box Live. [TS]
00:34:29 ◼ ► It's a killer app a sort of that's where your friends list is you're on X. Box Live you've been on X. [TS]
00:34:34 ◼ ► Box I was sixty you'll be an X. Box live with this. If a multi-platform title comes out. And you're not a P.C. Gamer. [TS]
00:34:40 ◼ ► You have a choice of can you get a majority of the P S four version X O X one version [TS]
00:34:44 ◼ ► and in the past generation a lot of people get got the three sixty version just because that's where their friends [TS]
00:34:48 ◼ ► where an X. Box Live. And sometimes I look a little better the P S four person and this generation X. [TS]
00:34:53 ◼ ► Box One version may look slightly worse than the P S four version ways that only gaming forum nerds care about most [TS]
00:35:06 ◼ ► Because that's where their friends are so the online social networking kind of network effect. [TS]
00:35:12 ◼ ► Social lock in thing may be more of a factor than any killer game because it's really hard for any platform to get a [TS]
00:35:17 ◼ ► killer game it's exclusive to it these days because the big titles are so big that Microsoft [TS]
00:35:25 ◼ ► or Sonny ever paying enough money to rock star to make the next G.T.A. Of schools will be on the console there's not. [TS]
00:35:30 ◼ ► I don't think they have enough money to do that because they make so much more money by putting it out everywhere that. [TS]
00:35:42 ◼ ► and the answer is No they're not so I don't know it's kind of like big movie studios making a movie [TS]
00:35:47 ◼ ► or two hundred million dollars. And then only showing in a certain brand of movie theaters no. [TS]
00:35:51 ◼ ► No change in movie theaters going to for do that it's not quite the same but I would love to see that [TS]
00:35:58 ◼ ► but historically it's been difficult for those games to match up with the with the cumulative massive sales machine [TS]
00:36:06 ◼ ► that is the popular franchises that are multi-platform like Call of Duty and. When he caught. [TS]
00:36:13 ◼ ► Destiny's coming out soon and went after auto and all those things. Sports. Yeah. It's all the A game. You know. [TS]
00:36:21 ◼ ► The men franchise stuff like that you know you know so I'm not a gamer anymore I don't see any I rarely play games on [TS]
00:36:28 ◼ ► my i Phone I have a we're Aaron and I have a lead that hasn't been plugged in. For months now. [TS]
00:36:35 ◼ ► And I was at my for we were at my friend. Phil's house over the weekend and he has an X. Box one and. [TS]
00:36:42 ◼ ► I didn't play any games although I saw him play Need for Speed which looked extraordinarily boring but it was pretty. [TS]
00:36:51 ◼ ► But we did use it because he has his T.V. Going through it and I forget the technical term for that the basically the X. [TS]
00:37:00 ◼ ► Receiver in order to change channels and so on and so forth. I believe it's called Web T.V. [TS]
00:37:05 ◼ ► For second I think you're serious. Anyway. So the point being that with the Audi oaken trolls you know X. Box. [TS]
00:37:13 ◼ ► Player Geo turn to tune to Comedy Central revenues I'm probably getting that wrong. [TS]
00:37:23 ◼ ► But when it didn't work which was I would say two thirds of the time. It was infuriating. But I can see where the X. [TS]
00:37:31 ◼ ► Box One is a very nifty in different take on what the next iteration of television might be in that it's all voice [TS]
00:37:40 ◼ ► I'd never saw anything gesture based on even know if there's a gesture based system [TS]
00:37:46 ◼ ► On one side of the screen put something else in the other side of the screen like a video game [TS]
00:37:55 ◼ ► But I could see why it would be appealing and I can see if. If a person who like to play games. [TS]
00:38:00 ◼ ► Wanted something more than just a game console I could absolutely see how this would be very very appealing. [TS]
00:38:05 ◼ ► I wonder how much of it is you know Microsoft is really making a very clear bet here. They're betting on Convergence. [TS]
00:38:13 ◼ ► And of course. Historically in our energy we had things like Web T.V. and and Various attempts that. [TS]
00:38:19 ◼ ► Set and trying to you know motion to two distinct devices the connected T.V.'s together into one and. [TS]
00:38:26 ◼ ► Usually those a failed or these been mediocre at best. Microsoft bet here is. They think that having your T.V. [TS]
00:38:35 ◼ ► Controlled by your game console is a really big deal at the game console is more than just a game console it's like a [TS]
00:38:40 ◼ ► home media. T.V. Activity consul. Whereas you know Sony is gone for more than the pure gaming so is intending really. [TS]
00:38:46 ◼ ► The pure gaming system that's separate and dedicated as as John's discussed a lot. [TS]
00:38:52 ◼ ► But the question is I think whether Microsoft is right like how how many people want to merge those two experiences. [TS]
00:39:14 ◼ ► I think there's a there's a little bit of a potential we effect here in that one of the reason is that we look at those [TS]
00:39:19 ◼ ► graphs of console sales of the weasel line shot up like a rocket with such an incredible slope is because we had a. [TS]
00:39:28 ◼ ► I don't want to call the novelty factor but it's more or less what it is. And that people are curious. [TS]
00:39:43 ◼ ► but they just said well this is a new thing. And I know some people have tried it and I'm not one of those people. [TS]
00:39:48 ◼ ► I need to get one of those. So I can try to see what this is like good or bad. And the X. [TS]
00:39:56 ◼ ► and add ons have notoriously bad sell through rates for Consols like of all the X. [TS]
00:40:00 ◼ ► Box three sixty so what percentage of those people bought connect that's very low. All of the X. [TS]
00:40:07 ◼ ► and Microsoft was adamant about that is one of the many reasons that their console is one hundred dollars more than [TS]
00:40:12 ◼ ► And they're taking the hit they said look we're going to make them all come with that and that means every single X. [TS]
00:40:16 ◼ ► Box One has the sort of we effect of people wondering. I wonder what would be like to talk to my T.V. [TS]
00:40:28 ◼ ► Or maybe they tried their friends connect one and didn't like it but they're like. [TS]
00:40:36 ◼ ► And so that that factor alone no matter how it ends up being even of ends up being a total disaster no never use it [TS]
00:40:41 ◼ ► anymore they just use it to play games like it a three sixty. Just the fact that it gets people in the door. [TS]
00:40:46 ◼ ► Curious about it I think is a really big strength for Microsoft. In this generation. [TS]
00:40:51 ◼ ► Because they all come with CONNECT. And as for actually using it. I've heard mostly reports that trying to use the X. [TS]
00:40:58 ◼ ► Box want to watch television like to control your television is not a good experience for the same reason that. [TS]
00:41:02 ◼ ► Like the television market is littered with the bodies of of companies that have tried to put a box of burning a T.V. [TS]
00:41:11 ◼ ► and complicated because of our terrible is in the US are terrible cable television system with non-standardized all the [TS]
00:41:16 ◼ ► stuff and people are thing like. It's better to use like my cable boxes guide the new easy to use the X. [TS]
00:41:21 ◼ ► Box guy that's pretty damning when you have a five hundred dollars box. That your tax your T.V. [TS]
00:41:25 ◼ ► and It's better just to your cable box also everyone hates their cable box God because they're all terrible. [TS]
00:41:30 ◼ ► Right and they're saying look the excise on was worse but. But I think like even if the excise one. [TS]
00:41:37 ◼ ► and then they just use it like a three sixty that's still a win for Microsoft because using it like a three sixty means [TS]
00:41:48 ◼ ► when People are in the lobby and stuff like that even that functionality which is not that big a deal. [TS]
00:41:52 ◼ ► That's something that Sony can't match because they don't have H.D. Myin. Right so I don't think the X. [TS]
00:41:58 ◼ ► Box One has to fill all the magical Minority Report. Voice recognition Syria AI dreams. [TS]
00:42:03 ◼ ► It just has to do one or two things that the P S four can't. And basically be an updated three sixty with Kinect open. [TS]
00:42:11 ◼ ► And maybe they will still not be any decent games that any game really cares about that use connect but we'll see. [TS]
00:42:18 ◼ ► Also brought to you by our friends at Tang Tang is mobile that makes sense to me as a reseller of the Sprint network in [TS]
00:42:30 ◼ ► Taking has great rates and there's no contract and no early termination fees. You own your device. [TS]
00:42:44 ◼ ► And then years automatically build for the actual amount of minutes messages of megabytes that you use each month. [TS]
00:42:49 ◼ ► So if use one hundred megs of data this month. And one gig next month that's fine. [TS]
00:42:53 ◼ ► You don't need to guess what you're going to need in advance or remember to upgrade and downgrade each month. [TS]
00:42:58 ◼ ► You can pay for what you use. You can see how much you can save with taken by going to A.T.P. [TS]
00:43:05 ◼ ► You can enter your last few bills from your just in carrier and will show you how much time will save over time. [TS]
00:43:12 ◼ ► Log into your account automatically and scrape the stats so it's pretty cool. So if you're also. [TS]
00:43:20 ◼ ► And you to pay an early termination fee to get yourself detained they will even give you a twenty five percent credit [TS]
00:43:28 ◼ ► So like cover to has a great customer support with a no hold no wait phone number. [TS]
00:43:36 ◼ ► Eastern and a human being will pick up the phone was able to help you. And quite nice too. [TS]
00:43:42 ◼ ► So you can have as many devices to your account as you'd like and their usage and billing are pooled each month. [TS]
00:43:46 ◼ ► So this is actually really cool if you mean if you need to manage a fleet of devices. [TS]
00:43:50 ◼ ► At the pool usage and you get a robust multi device management panel. Really cool stuff. [TS]
00:43:54 ◼ ► Last week I mentioned how they would be great for developers who want to Android test phones with inexpensive data [TS]
00:44:01 ◼ ► and not only can you pick from their wide array of Android devices you can even buy the new Nexus five from the Google [TS]
00:44:06 ◼ ► Play store and bring it to TNG. Since TO includes tethering with their data at no additional charge. [TS]
00:44:12 ◼ ► That's pretty cool. You can also use a tin device as a primary or back of tethering hotspot while traveling. [TS]
00:44:18 ◼ ► I've always recommended having multiple carrier devices for that and it's pretty great when you do. [TS]
00:44:34 ◼ ► Now it's time to address the elephant in the room with Ting. Everyone has always asked. What about the i Phone. [TS]
00:44:41 ◼ ► Well the big news as of very recently. You can now bring your sprint. I Phone four or four S. To Tang. [TS]
00:44:55 ◼ ► I don't lower down the ME IN THAT NO to the room I want to hoist up your car complaints. No Apple buys Prime Sense. [TS]
00:45:05 ◼ ► There's your way that story. I didn't What's this about Prime Sense is the company that originally made the sensors. [TS]
00:45:16 ◼ ► I might have got that slightly wrong but basically used to it looks like company but yeah I've all. [TS]
00:45:21 ◼ ► You know there's a reason for this what this company does makes connect like sensors [TS]
00:45:24 ◼ ► and they were I think they were involved in the development of the original connect if not to connect to [TS]
00:45:29 ◼ ► and that is interesting because Apple tends not to buy companies frivolously unless they're color. [TS]
00:45:37 ◼ ► And that was a great domain name. Cheese they buy call over the nobody ever packs. Fine. You would imagine though. [TS]
00:45:47 ◼ ► Semi is that they bought this company because they have an interest in some kind of sensor stuff [TS]
00:45:51 ◼ ► and I think everyone was thinking. OK Well Microsoft on the X. Box One of the T.V. [TS]
00:45:55 ◼ ► Integration Apple still has yet to make whatever we think they're crazy movies are going to be in the T.V. [TS]
00:46:07 ◼ ► So we're still waiting for the other shoe to drop on T.V. and Then they buy the sensor maker. [TS]
00:46:11 ◼ ► And on the one hand it's like way too late for them to be buying the sensor maker ever expect them to have a product [TS]
00:46:15 ◼ ► next year that involves a sensor all. If you think of how long it took for us to see clear fruits of the P S M E. [TS]
00:46:23 ◼ ► It also implies that they think that sensor related things are important enough for them to buy a company that probably [TS]
00:46:30 ◼ ► has patents but also expertise in the technology it so it's beyond the phase where they're like let's just go. [TS]
00:46:38 ◼ ► and see if it's in a useful thing to have it seems like they're into the phase where they're getting serious about this [TS]
00:46:42 ◼ ► and the question is what do they do with this technology and I guess that I think everyone assumes that it's T.V. [TS]
00:46:48 ◼ ► Related but I think it could just as easily be I wish device related as an i Pad and i Phones. [TS]
00:46:54 ◼ ► Because I think about all the crazy stuff that Samsung does with their Galaxy phones are the stupid things that track [TS]
00:46:59 ◼ ► your eyes and like that you don't have to touch a screen how terrible that works. And I think. All right. [TS]
00:47:04 ◼ ► That's terrible. But what if there was a way to do some tiny subset of that. Better. [TS]
00:47:09 ◼ ► You know to an Apple level of quality where they're happy with happy with making this part of the I was device [TS]
00:47:18 ◼ ► or i Phone to sense more about you than just where your fingers touching in the orientation acceleration. [TS]
00:47:29 ◼ ► Coming with expertise in technology and everything coming from this company. Bush open and I was devised. [TS]
00:47:37 ◼ ► And I think about an interview like that I don't I don't know what they would do with it I would imagine they could do [TS]
00:47:42 ◼ ► something small and simple and like the proximity sensor but more sophisticated using the camera. [TS]
00:47:48 ◼ ► and more proximity sensors to be more intelligent about something using eyelets that I thought are not over his T.V. [TS]
00:47:54 ◼ ► What are we going to be standing up in front of a wave in our hands like Graham from an X. Box one. I don't know. [TS]
00:47:58 ◼ ► I wonder if we could even be used in any way to to support the that camera you know maybe for. [TS]
00:48:16 ◼ ► Yeah I was going to interest like if you look at the connect it was impressive technology like it. [TS]
00:48:23 ◼ ► but it is way better like it I think it can sense fingers now. Whereas the connect one can barely sense hand so. [TS]
00:48:30 ◼ ► The technology has come a long way and obviously you can't fit something like connect size into an I O. S. [TS]
00:48:36 ◼ ► Device although you couldn't elect a little T.V. Bar type thing but there's surely something you can do. [TS]
00:48:41 ◼ ► If you can get. I are color image edge a Texan and depth map from these multi sensor things. [TS]
00:48:49 ◼ ► Surely there's something interesting you can do about that even if it's only just like kind of having having the phone [TS]
00:48:57 ◼ ► Even if you never used to control the phone or whatever just so the phone kind of knows. [TS]
00:49:01 ◼ ► They're staring at me they're not I'm in a pocket I'm not I'm being held up to a head I'm not like just those simple [TS]
00:49:07 ◼ ► things could make the phone experience better without ever actually exposing a feature. To the user and for the T.V. [TS]
00:49:12 ◼ ► Thing again I have no idea who is known as any idea what the hell they're doing on T.V.. [TS]
00:49:16 ◼ ► but It is intriguing to say the least. It might be only one who doesn't really care what the doing on T.V.. [TS]
00:49:30 ◼ ► and for the service that backs at the entire i Tunes store for that to be more reliable and work more. [TS]
00:49:36 ◼ ► But the actual like Apple T.V. Box and software experience. I think. Satisfies my needs. For what I want out of a T.V. [TS]
00:49:57 ◼ ► and that's you know that's probably going to be held a command. No matter what they do with the hardware. [TS]
00:50:01 ◼ ► But like I just I'm fine with the T.V. As it is I have Netflix and everything else Netflix. [TS]
00:50:10 ◼ ► And that's about all I really need like what I'm looking to do you have minimal T.V. [TS]
00:50:15 ◼ ► Need to do is if you're if you're more like the average American who consume some portion of sports programming some [TS]
00:50:23 ◼ ► The experience is terrible because all those things are spread out in ten different places I mean even you would just [TS]
00:50:28 ◼ ► for the two places like Oh isn't that like let me check Oh is that an apple do it do you let me check even just that is [TS]
00:50:33 ◼ ► bad but imagine if you multiply that out by like three or four or five places to check [TS]
00:50:41 ◼ ► and some of which you had to see like you only way you could get it was it was broadcast to you [TS]
00:50:47 ◼ ► and maybe you don't want to wait a week because then the things really spoiled for you like. [TS]
00:50:55 ◼ ► and worse than ever Mrs waiting for something to clarify this in the same way that that you know Apple clarified using [TS]
00:51:00 ◼ ► your music learn Granted it's like you to have music but hey that was filed labels by big labels or whatever in the US. [TS]
00:51:10 ◼ ► and synthesize some sort of system that have a D.V.R. To catch this and I have Netflix and I have Apple T.V. [TS]
00:51:18 ◼ ► I can watch my Tivo and i Pad but I also watch netflix and i Pad but I can't watch Apple T.V. [TS]
00:51:23 ◼ ► and I Pad but I can watch drugs in the i Tunes store and as. It's television continues to be a giant mess again.. [TS]
00:51:29 ◼ ► I'm speaking only about the US I don't know what it's like in the rest the world so the more T.V. [TS]
00:51:33 ◼ ► You consume in the more you use it the worse it is maybe you're still limping along with Apple T.V. [TS]
00:51:38 ◼ ► and That flex and that satisfies you but I think you're in the minority in terms of your television consumption habits. [TS]
00:51:43 ◼ ► Well sure but how many of those problems are really software and content deal problems or even. [TS]
00:51:54 ◼ ► So you know it's also software choices and content deals. Versus hardware. And you know. Interface problems like.. [TS]
00:52:05 ◼ ► Then we could we have our arms around to navigate the same small menu full of limited choices [TS]
00:52:10 ◼ ► and expensive options like that's. It's. That's not going to so that's not going to change anything. [TS]
00:52:17 ◼ ► We're assuming a meeting with i Tunes a hardware software solution i Pod i Tunes in the store with everything was [TS]
00:52:21 ◼ ► Harbor it was software it was content deals that's what we're looking for is something to save us all from everything [TS]
00:52:27 ◼ ► and software side you can look at the i Phone as an example where all they had in the beginning. [TS]
00:52:32 ◼ ► Was hardware and software. But the hardware and software was so amazing that it was used as a lever to try to do. [TS]
00:52:39 ◼ ► Revolutionize the carrier industry but it gave the handset maker more leverage than they ever had before [TS]
00:52:44 ◼ ► and it allowed us to have cell phones not crapped up with the stupid carrier ad ware and crap like that on it. [TS]
00:52:50 ◼ ► That wasn't a big change. It was an improvement. And so I think even just alone but with with. [TS]
00:53:01 ◼ ► and software the power of the consumer that wanted it affects some small change in the industry. [TS]
00:53:07 ◼ ► Again at least in the US. For the better. So I would take that into television world. [TS]
00:53:12 ◼ ► and everyone hates them just make some amazing device that everybody wants to make television. [TS]
00:53:16 ◼ ► Better for the people who are using it and use that as a lever to say oh well if your kid. [TS]
00:53:27 ◼ ► Are going to be pissed time order and are going to change carriers like like people were going to A.T.M. [TS]
00:53:30 ◼ ► To you from Verizon or whatever because it was the only place that had the i Phone. Again there is a long shots. [TS]
00:53:42 ◼ ► When like whenever there's some kind of dispute between. One of the networks. And one of the big cable companies. [TS]
00:53:47 ◼ ► And the networks pulled pull themselves off the cable channel for like two weeks and. [TS]
00:53:51 ◼ ► The idea is you know that that that the networks hoping the cable company will say. You know. [TS]
00:53:56 ◼ ► Oh come back to us go all of our customers are angry at us and. You know usually they. They just kind of quietly. [TS]
00:54:07 ◼ ► People often look at I think we're seeing a lot more recently from from smart. Analyst type people. [TS]
00:54:14 ◼ ► You can look at the P.C. Market. In the ninety's. And so many things that we consider like common. [TS]
00:54:22 ◼ ► Be Hey viewer or the way things work. Is based on the windows and mac. Divide in the ninety's. [TS]
00:54:33 ◼ ► and say actually that seems more like a complicated fluke. Than the way things actually work you know. [TS]
00:54:44 ◼ ► Hardware being multi vendor and software running all of it versus the unified vertical integration. [TS]
00:54:56 ◼ ► All this like wisdom that's been based on how this one instance of something worked. One time in the industry. [TS]
00:55:01 ◼ ► What in fact it's much more complicated than that and it doesn't always work that way. [TS]
00:55:09 ◼ ► I think that's one of those things to where that was a very special time in history that we're not in a time like that [TS]
00:55:15 ◼ ► anymore with any other medium or any other situation or industry. That was a one time thing. [TS]
00:55:21 ◼ ► And I don't think that anybody Apple or otherwise. Is going to be able to reproduce that in a new medium. [TS]
00:55:29 ◼ ► But I think the same thing could happen over a much longer time like there was like a big room with I turned maybe I [TS]
00:55:35 ◼ ► would say the breadth of though that's the breadth is where it's going to really suffer like well that's what I'm [TS]
00:55:40 ◼ ► saying like a star of small and what I'm thinking about there is not so much Apple doing it. But Netflix. [TS]
00:55:44 ◼ ► Finding its own shows today overnight. Obviate the need for the networks and H.B.O. No they didn't. [TS]
00:56:00 ◼ ► Went over to Netflix the thing that has no allegiance to any kind of you know carrier anything like that they got to [TS]
00:56:05 ◼ ► show so what. So if. But if they do that every year for the next fifteen twenty years. [TS]
00:56:10 ◼ ► You can foresee a scenario where either Netflix or a similar player polls power away from the cable companies. [TS]
00:56:21 ◼ ► or a majority of the shows that people want to watch are being funded in a way that has no connection to any cable [TS]
00:56:28 ◼ ► That would be an example of an i Tunes like changes that are happening in three years. Happening in fifteen or twenty. [TS]
00:56:37 ◼ ► I'm not so sure that you're right Marco that the i Tunes kind of phenomenon couldn't be repeated what what I was [TS]
00:56:44 ◼ ► thinking about was if you think about what made i Tunes as paired with the i Pod so magical is to me it's a couple of [TS]
00:56:57 ◼ ► and so i Tunes allows you to acquire individual songs which is very rare at the time I mean you know they were singles [TS]
00:57:05 ◼ ► And you could acquire these songs without leaving your house which was really awesome and new and then you could [TS]
00:57:10 ◼ ► when you decide decided to leave your house you could consume them on this magical new hardware device. [TS]
00:57:20 ◼ ► Where you can acquire content very easily in the continent thinking of is sports content [TS]
00:57:26 ◼ ► and I know that you can Marco's eyes just glaze over but for most Americans and I would argue most of the world. [TS]
00:57:33 ◼ ► The sports are big deal and a lot of people pointed out in the chat that the N.F.L. [TS]
00:57:38 ◼ ► Has That's the national American Football League. The Continental It's well you know I mean. [TS]
00:57:43 ◼ ► So they haven't a clue has an exclusive deal with Directv which is a satellite provider. Here in the United States. [TS]
00:57:49 ◼ ► And that runs out I think at the end of the season or if not the end of the season very very soon [TS]
00:57:54 ◼ ► and a lot of people are calling on Apple does just throw money at this problem and get that exclusive deal [TS]
00:57:59 ◼ ► and what that exclusive deal brings is if you're if your DIRECTV customer. You can get what's called N.F.L. [TS]
00:58:25 ◼ ► or any of the other local franchises aren't playing at that time. So imagine a situation where the N.F.L. [TS]
00:58:39 ◼ ► Which is the acquire piece because you can watch any game you want and the M.O.B.O. [TS]
00:58:43 ◼ ► Already does this Major League Baseball does this the N.B.A. Believe already does this or in I think the N.H.L. [TS]
00:58:48 ◼ ► Does I'm probably getting some of that wrong but whatever you get the idea. Well magine a combination of N.F.L.. [TS]
00:58:52 ◼ ► NASCAR and F one. All of them. Easily available on the Apple T.V. Both live and replay and. [TS]
00:59:01 ◼ ► All you need to do is either pay off a little bit or just buy the darn device transporter style. [TS]
00:59:06 ◼ ► And then on top of that Apple has this really slick you I well I like the line the Apple T.V. [TS]
00:59:12 ◼ ► but it's certainly a lot better than most set top boxes like my for Hyson box looks like crap compared to the Apple. [TS]
00:59:18 ◼ ► So now you've got the content or you can acquire the content and now you can consume the content in a nice [TS]
00:59:34 ◼ ► But I think it could be a really really interesting way to attack attack traditional T.V. [TS]
00:59:41 ◼ ► With without having to go after movies and T.V. Shows in the traditional sense. And to reinforce Marcus point. The. [TS]
00:59:48 ◼ ► Dave big difference here is that the players know the players saw what happened to be using. [TS]
00:59:52 ◼ ► And so everybody is super paranoid about putting too many eggs in one basket. So if Apple. [TS]
00:59:58 ◼ ► By some miracle decided to spend. The billions of dollars it would take to get the N.F.L. To that degree. [TS]
01:00:04 ◼ ► or be like we sure as hell can't go that well because then they would have two sports franchises [TS]
01:00:17 ◼ ► and spread their bets like like just like the music labels as soon as Amazon became vice. [TS]
01:00:23 ◼ ► and just give Amazon everything because we cannot have Apple have all this power is like be the sole one [TS]
01:00:27 ◼ ► and only awesome digital music distribution network. So all of the non-music guys saw what happened in music. [TS]
01:00:36 ◼ ► Because they're not going to make that same mistake and that's why I think it has to be a much longer period. [TS]
01:00:42 ◼ ► And probably like the way it's going to happen is the power that's in the hands of the networks. [TS]
01:00:50 ◼ ► Will shift to a set of companies that look more like Netflix if they're not necessarily Netflix. [TS]
01:00:54 ◼ ► I don't think Apple is going to be in the business of generating content so far they haven't shown that they're willing [TS]
01:01:06 ◼ ► Dealing with Netflix is way easier than dealing with N.B.C. or The N.F.L. And so maybe this insanity there. [TS]
01:01:11 ◼ ► That being said though. I think you're right that. Once one sports franchise gave exclusivity to the Apple T.V.. [TS]
01:01:19 ◼ ► or To Apple in general I think that would give pause to the others however if that one was the N.F.L. [TS]
01:01:27 ◼ ► I think that's enough. Like even. I think enough people and obviously the rest of the world. [TS]
01:01:32 ◼ ► Couldn't possibly care less but in the US you know and this isn't doesn't mean the problems with T.V.. [TS]
01:01:48 ◼ ► And that's really what they want they you know what they want out of this kind of effort. [TS]
01:01:56 ◼ ► and Get having a really good reason to use it frequently and. If you get the N.F.L. Exclusive on there. [TS]
01:02:07 ◼ ► People are not going to give up their cable subscription. They're still going to have cable. So the. [TS]
01:02:12 ◼ ► So not getting the other sports networks wouldn't matter as much this would basically be like like an exclusive console [TS]
01:02:18 ◼ ► game like this would be a killer app for the Apple T.V. For a very large number of people in this country. You know. [TS]
01:02:30 ◼ ► and then we always tend to keep coming back to the realization and this is just the U.S. [TS]
01:02:34 ◼ ► We're talking about an average is a global company and it cares about worldwide stuff [TS]
01:02:41 ◼ ► Look at all this crap and we're only still talking about the U.S. Forget about it let's just you know whatever. [TS]
01:02:51 ◼ ► or figure out something to an even net like this I think mostly US centric of well like I think the other countries [TS]
01:02:57 ◼ ► have better ways to get the content they want over more modern digital systems than we do [TS]
01:03:04 ◼ ► but like I think people can see the soccer games that they want to see through some interesting digital thing that's [TS]
01:03:14 ◼ ► Like the local television franchise is still such a stranglehold and like with the black at the local blackouts [TS]
01:03:23 ◼ ► But I'm still like to see Apple do something even if they do something and it flops like. [TS]
01:03:31 ◼ ► The first couple aren't that great the little black pluck is pretty darn good so if there's more to come in that vein [TS]
01:03:36 ◼ ► and they're buying this connect like sensor company. Let's see what you've got right. [TS]
01:03:44 ◼ ► Devoting a massive chunk of money on a massive division of their of their product line. [TS]
01:03:50 ◼ ► And therefore their attention to something that only works in the U.S. or Will only succeed in the U.S. That. [TS]
01:03:56 ◼ ► That's not like Tim Cook. That's for sure. Well but what if you did something like the N.F.L. [TS]
01:04:02 ◼ ► but It but it's a plea Kabul to the rest of the world like F one for example or sock. Or perhaps. [TS]
01:04:07 ◼ ► Well the apple thousand move is away now our television is also now platform. And you crazy. [TS]
01:04:15 ◼ ► You sort out how to help get your stuff like out of like the M L B Yeah you know they made an app platform [TS]
01:04:21 ◼ ► and i OS devices they didn't do a deal with Major League Baseball they made an applet form. [TS]
01:04:29 ◼ ► but like that that's an opportunity for people not as an apple move because a platform is global [TS]
01:04:44 ◼ ► I don't know that there's that much more to say about this I kind of a middle over Twitter all morning about it [TS]
01:04:49 ◼ ► and wrote The Big Book People haven't read your blog or read your Twitter so you have to reiterate and summarize here. [TS]
01:04:56 ◼ ► And as someone who works for the man. Marco you know quite a bit about these sorts of issues and. [TS]
01:05:04 ◼ ► I used to work for various men. Do you remember that. It was launched. I think so. [TS]
01:05:13 ◼ ► So Penny Arcade put up his job listing for one person who was responsible for basically developing [TS]
01:05:27 ◼ ► Tools like various like him and Tory trackers when they sell good stuff like that. [TS]
01:05:31 ◼ ► Managing the conference site stuff like that and also doing all of their local I.T. For their workers and their office. [TS]
01:05:44 ◼ ► That they they kind of flippantly glorify how they how you won't have any kind of free time this will be the work you [TS]
01:05:54 ◼ ► And your and you'll like it and they'll make up for it by paying you a sub par salary [TS]
01:06:01 ◼ ► and giving you some kind of nice perks. In the office like I don't know like nice chairs and snacks. Whatever. [TS]
01:06:09 ◼ ► You know something i would cost a lot less than than a good salary. And the whole the whole posting has this. [TS]
01:06:16 ◼ ► This arrogant attitude of like. This is really a terrible job and you're going to love it and. Now. [TS]
01:06:24 ◼ ► Really quickly genuine question do they. You're assuming that the salaries. Crummy right now they say in the ad. [TS]
01:06:31 ◼ ► They say they say were we recognize that we're going to play I don't know the exact words [TS]
01:06:38 ◼ ► Maybe below market because we're not our money oriented company or something like that and we run lean. [TS]
01:06:44 ◼ ► I mean the ad is honest in the penny arcade style of honesty. Where they have you ever seen a job ad before they say. [TS]
01:06:51 ◼ ► Work life balance. Forget it. Like that's basically what this says. Some you know some place. [TS]
01:06:56 ◼ ► Everybody always says oh we have great work late to live the places that don't have great work like the I still say in [TS]
01:07:01 ◼ ► the job at all we're great about work like balance and fact. If they talk a lot about work life balance. [TS]
01:07:08 ◼ ► But this one they come right out and say you know you're not really going to have a good work life balance. [TS]
01:07:13 ◼ ► Work will be your life that's the type of person we're looking for that's the type of job. Says Yeah. [TS]
01:07:17 ◼ ► I don't know the whole thing just kind of rub me the wrong way like it. It just basically. [TS]
01:07:23 ◼ ► My problem with it you know there's a lot of terrible employers out there. And the tech industry is no exception. [TS]
01:07:42 ◼ ► and if this is what's normally expected of them in this industry and. Yeah that's true for a lot of employers. [TS]
01:07:50 ◼ ► That doesn't mean there's not also a lot of great places to work that actually respect people [TS]
01:07:58 ◼ ► and want people to stay there for more than a couple years you know like I reading reading the form posting from the [TS]
01:08:07 ◼ ► And he kind of said you know this is you know like I chose this and therefore you know. Get on my life kind of thing. [TS]
01:08:16 ◼ ► What we think they mean by the job posting it just kind of confirms that where it's a. [TS]
01:08:29 ◼ ► and can't get a data connection to like logon to fix a server if it's down. He sleeps with a laptop next of the bed. [TS]
01:08:35 ◼ ► Right. I mean and this is. I did a lot of this for Tumblr because Which is why I'm sensitive to it. This is basically. [TS]
01:08:41 ◼ ► This was my job at Tumblr for the first four years. The difference was I was paid very well and I got a lot of stock. [TS]
01:08:48 ◼ ► And that I think was fair like I was. I was doing the work of a co-founder and I was paid. Like a co-founder and. [TS]
01:08:59 ◼ ► That's very very different than something like this which is like they're already have something like it was like [TS]
01:09:06 ◼ ► twenty employees somebody said they're there to have a lot of employees. They they run a very popular Web site. [TS]
01:09:14 ◼ ► They were actually run multiple websites they get lots of traffic there's obviously you know. [TS]
01:09:22 ◼ ► They don't need to have one person doing all this is paid very badly or they could have one. Well paid person. [TS]
01:09:27 ◼ ► And they're choosing not to because they simply don't need to because they're they're so popular that enough people [TS]
01:09:37 ◼ ► and that's all the other the other thing they're offering is you get to be an employee of Penny Arcade [TS]
01:09:41 ◼ ► and like that the work life balance so they say doesn't exist it's because they kind of have this big work family thing [TS]
01:09:48 ◼ ► The people who work there seem to be happy about the idea that you're you the people you work with are like your family. [TS]
01:10:01 ◼ ► and I think some of the things in this form that says I call some people do leave it a fiver or whatever and. Like. [TS]
01:10:06 ◼ ► That's But that's the trade off though is that you are. You may not be getting high pay or something but you get. [TS]
01:10:14 ◼ ► Presumably to work in an environment that's much more fun than just working for some faceless corporation because you [TS]
01:10:22 ◼ ► and a lot of their interview process if you look at their passing of years is about trying to find someone who not only [TS]
01:10:37 ◼ ► If we would like to hang out with this person because we know that's kind of our work environment we're all going to be [TS]
01:10:44 ◼ ► and that sounds a lot like kind of a startup type environment with a bunch of friends who start a company [TS]
01:10:59 ◼ ► If I was not also going to benefit from the fruits of my labor like if you are in a startup [TS]
01:11:03 ◼ ► and you are an early employing you work like this because that's how everybody and starts work [TS]
01:11:07 ◼ ► but all do this they all do fifty jobs overcritical as ours they all don't get paid a lot because not a lot of money [TS]
01:11:11 ◼ ► and you have to spend a venture capital and like servers and acquiring new customers and stuff. [TS]
01:11:18 ◼ ► You share in the in the victory like Margo Sheridan you know when somebody got tumblr stock and [TS]
01:11:23 ◼ ► when they sold the Ahuja he shared in that right. He didn't do all that work. And then today. [TS]
01:11:33 ◼ ► I'm basically no one should work of this hard no matter how young you are no matter how awesome the job is no one [TS]
01:11:38 ◼ ► should sacrifice the other parts their life this degree if they don't share in it and that I think. [TS]
01:11:45 ◼ ► and the reason I would recommend would not recommend anyone else take this job is that. [TS]
01:11:56 ◼ ► From what appears to be the success of Penny Arcade and those people are. The founders of the company like that too. [TS]
01:12:06 ◼ ► From it financially it seems like again we don't know we can't tell they've talked a little bit [TS]
01:12:17 ◼ ► If you're going to have a startup type environment where you're asking this of all the people involved. [TS]
01:12:23 ◼ ► I feel like they should be sharing in the success of the company because this is not like a new star of They've been [TS]
01:12:31 ◼ ► Has made a very successful enterprise I feel like maybe they all share equally but that whole idea that. [TS]
01:12:36 ◼ ► Seven people work their butts off and three people get rich. Drives me insane. Right. [TS]
01:12:41 ◼ ► If you get I mean most of the time nobody gets rich. Sunday work their butts off and everyone goes home set right. [TS]
01:12:47 ◼ ► But in the cases where seven people work their butts off. Three people shouldn't get rich. [TS]
01:12:51 ◼ ► Seven people to get rich maybe three who get richer. But that's what I feel like should happen. And I can't. [TS]
01:12:58 ◼ ► And again I'm I'm friendly as well as why I would not take a job and want to recommend someone didn't take it [TS]
01:13:12 ◼ ► So I think you guys are judging this from a very similar angle to the way I judge it however it is not the only angle. [TS]
01:13:20 ◼ ► And the reason I say that is because my first job straight out of school was that this company that made slot machines. [TS]
01:13:28 ◼ ► And they the group Group of it was all guys at the time a group of guys that worked there were all. Ex-pats from E.A. [TS]
01:13:39 ◼ ► Who had bought up the company that they had all sort of kind of co-founded it was a game company called Kess My based [TS]
01:13:46 ◼ ► out of Charlottesville Virginia. And by pure happenstance. A large majority of these. [TS]
01:13:52 ◼ ► These guys either didn't have children or didn't have any immediate family so no wives and no kids. [TS]
01:14:00 ◼ ► And so especially a couple of the guys there like my boss when I first got there who I adore. [TS]
01:14:07 ◼ ► He he didn't happen to have a wife and didn't happen to have any kids and so because of that. [TS]
01:14:19 ◼ ► I don't you know I've this job is a pain the but but it's a job in this is what I do. But I think. [TS]
01:14:30 ◼ ► I think he worked a lot partially because it was the most in interest name in an interesting but it was. [TS]
01:14:35 ◼ ► It was a really good way to occupy his time. And so I invision Penny Arcade in a similar way. [TS]
01:14:41 ◼ ► Not to say that these people don't have kids they don't have to there they don't have families [TS]
01:14:44 ◼ ► but there are people that really do just love working a lot and my boss with this place worked. [TS]
01:14:57 ◼ ► He just enjoyed doing work and he worked six days a week nobody else did but he always did and. [TS]
01:15:04 ◼ ► And I'm not trying to say that he didn't have other things in his life I'm not trying to say that he necessarily [TS]
01:15:15 ◼ ► and want to have want to have a work experience that kind of is their lives. Is that me. Heck now. [TS]
01:15:37 ◼ ► He by his own admission has sacrificed many other parts of his life to be successful in business he is the reason Penny [TS]
01:15:43 ◼ ► Arcade exists in the form it does now. He sacrificed his life to make this amazing company he deserves. [TS]
01:15:50 ◼ ► You know all the credit for that the two artists of course are the spark of this entire thing nothing exists without [TS]
01:16:01 ◼ ► But like for Robert that was his choice he came up he said I'm disability I'm going to leave. [TS]
01:16:09 ◼ ► I understand the sacrifices involved for it for the two other guys they have wives [TS]
01:16:12 ◼ ► and kids in my impression is yes they work hard and everything yes there are many demands on their time and so on [TS]
01:16:26 ◼ ► And people talk about like this job burns people out pretty OK it's been around fifteen years in this job has had two [TS]
01:16:33 ◼ ► It's obviously not a machine that burns through people or whatever not seven and a half years each. [TS]
01:16:38 ◼ ► The first one was there for like eight years or longer even the the guy who's that who's quitting now. [TS]
01:16:45 ◼ ► Well either way it's like two people in the position for over the fifteen your life of the company is not a mill where [TS]
01:16:51 ◼ ► they bring in people neighbor on the mound bring in people and bring them out. But it has. [TS]
01:16:54 ◼ ► It has scaled up over that time as Penny Arcade asking up the job has scaled up so I like it. [TS]
01:16:59 ◼ ► I think it says something that. That you know they had a guy there for a long time he'd left. [TS]
01:17:13 ◼ ► But like giving back to same point and I'm not but I'm not implying an answer here. [TS]
01:17:21 ◼ ► Is the company still mean for making a job like this. Right I'm saying the same thing if all the employees. [TS]
01:17:26 ◼ ► Enjoy hanging out with the other employees a lot and enjoy working on a lot which is a big a big assumption. [TS]
01:17:33 ◼ ► But if that's the case like if I was one of those people like my boss at my first job. [TS]
01:17:43 ◼ ► It would probably look a lot like this doesn't make it right not necessarily but in whatever. Apply for it hack now. [TS]
01:17:49 ◼ ► But it would look a lot like that so like I think my. My opinion on whether this is inherently a bad job posting. [TS]
01:17:57 ◼ ► Is there are some inherently bad aspects of the lot of people point out the inherently bad ass we have it is not so [TS]
01:18:16 ◼ ► and the intangibles that they're able to ask for people to sacrifice their entire lives. And take below market pay. [TS]
01:18:24 ◼ ► It's not so much of their able to do that it's so much of the existence of companies that are able to do that makes the [TS]
01:18:30 ◼ ► rest of the energy feel like they can turn down the dials on their hiring it sort of makes him like well. [TS]
01:18:36 ◼ ► You're expected to work like a dog and well you're expected not to make too much money. [TS]
01:18:39 ◼ ► and if too many companies do that it sort of makes it seem like oh everybody who works and i T. [TS]
01:18:44 ◼ ► Can never go on vacation and. It's like no you're not Penny Arcade you can't do Do. That because what. [TS]
01:18:49 ◼ ► What are you giving me like it's what makes me sad is that this position is this job description is like an honest [TS]
01:18:58 ◼ ► You know insurance companies or big Fortune five hundred companies that are just a terrible description sound. [TS]
01:19:05 ◼ ► And they're not fun places to work and they don't give you anything to balance off of this [TS]
01:19:08 ◼ ► but still the existence of Penny Arcade in the bill is kind of like. Margot's talked about this on past those and like. [TS]
01:19:18 ◼ ► Devalues the work of developers and designers. Ethical why are they doing the work for free. [TS]
01:19:22 ◼ ► Sometimes they're doing the work for free because it's fun because they're college student and it's fun to make apps [TS]
01:19:30 ◼ ► Goddamn these people don't work for free. They're devaluing the work of everybody who does. [TS]
01:19:42 ◼ ► Penny Arcade should have a broader view and say we don't want to devalue the work of IP workers [TS]
01:19:48 ◼ ► and so we're going to try to have a more of sort of I guess if you call it like environmental awareness [TS]
01:19:57 ◼ ► That would be a reason not to do this that would be a reason to this job posting is a bad idea. [TS]
01:20:03 ◼ ► Regardless of how happy the employee the not because of the person who gets a job is going to be sad [TS]
01:20:08 ◼ ► and not because Penny Arcade need a company but just because of sort of environmental factors and the second reason. [TS]
01:20:13 ◼ ► This job posting is bad is different and it's think it's much much more concrete and that. [TS]
01:20:21 ◼ ► Well we were just talking about backups for a million years. Just as a person who runs a business. [TS]
01:20:26 ◼ ► This is a bad move business wise. It's. It seems like Penny Arcade does not correctly value. [TS]
01:20:37 ◼ ► and you know technology infrastructure in their company because there's a big company there's a lot of stake here. [TS]
01:20:42 ◼ ► Never trust that to one person not because you're exploiting them not because no one person can do this not because you [TS]
01:20:56 ◼ ► and online services is such an important part of the Penny Arcade empire as it existed a that there's no way that I [TS]
01:21:04 ◼ ► For the sake of the company for the sake of the founders for the sake of the other employees. [TS]
01:21:09 ◼ ► Nothing to do with what the job is like you just cannot have one person you cannot. [TS]
01:21:12 ◼ ► And has a side effect that if you have two people then one guy can actually go on vacation as many upsides that [TS]
01:21:17 ◼ ► but ignoring all that pretend he's just like an evil turn of the century industrial revolution. You know. Robber Baron. [TS]
01:21:24 ◼ ► Don't have one God You gotta have redundancy so that would be my appeal to the Penny Arcade guys that it's insane. [TS]
01:21:33 ◼ ► The Especially because their website being up or websites being up. Is such an important part of the business. [TS]
01:21:44 ◼ ► but I would imagine the majority of their income. Probably still comes from ad using the site. [TS]
01:21:59 ◼ ► but the thing is all of them have some aspect of it that involves websites and services [TS]
01:22:05 ◼ ► Obviously like they're going to lose a lot for any moment at the site is down it's like there [TS]
01:22:26 ◼ ► And part of it like I should even point out now is now I'm thinking about this. My job at Tumblr wasn't quite. [TS]
01:22:33 ◼ ► Because David could log in to fix things he wasn't as good at it as I was you know you weren't You're the only one. [TS]
01:22:39 ◼ ► Right like. He that was like he that was like his secondary ability his primary ability was coding all the. [TS]
01:22:44 ◼ ► You know the front and the middle layer but. But he could log in and fix servers. To some degree. [TS]
01:22:50 ◼ ► When I was not available look was not often but you know he could do it. And he did do it. [TS]
01:22:54 ◼ ► And sometimes he could only like you know. Slightly manage things until I got back. [TS]
01:23:02 ◼ ► And the and the only reason that it was acceptable to have all of that even resting on me. [TS]
01:23:07 ◼ ► Was because there were only two employees. Like that was it was just two of us for so long. [TS]
01:23:15 ◼ ► and we couldn't afford anybody else for sucked for a very long time to be you know I think if you can get away with [TS]
01:23:20 ◼ ► they get all the time one person fifteen years is not like I'm saying that you're doomed you can't have one person. [TS]
01:23:24 ◼ ► The fact that they can get away with it it's I think it's just penny wise pound foolish like ignoring of whether that [TS]
01:23:37 ◼ ► And I'm willing to give them all the benefit of the doubt on that a matter of fact because the few things they have [TS]
01:23:43 ◼ ► that probably one of them is that the conflict in buyout offers because who wouldn't want to buy them because they're [TS]
01:23:47 ◼ ► just a you know. A money making machine. When they entertain buyout offers. What they what the guys in charge did said. [TS]
01:23:54 ◼ ► If we take this buyout offer we're going to dole out the money to all of the people in the company [TS]
01:24:01 ◼ ► We're not going to take a buyout in the three founders leaving you guys just are out of a job [TS]
01:24:04 ◼ ► or whatever it was were if we take this money. We're going to divide it probably not even Lee But you know. [TS]
01:24:10 ◼ ► We're going to divided amongst all employees as if all the employees had had equity in the company which as far as I [TS]
01:24:14 ◼ ► know they don't legally have equity in the company but that was what the founders did. [TS]
01:24:17 ◼ ► They're nice guys they're looking out for their people again this is like a family. [TS]
01:24:21 ◼ ► And when they took a vote they let the whole company vote on this and not a single. Person voted to take the buyout. [TS]
01:24:27 ◼ ► Even though they knew. Like if we do this you can be. You can get some large presumably large amount of money. [TS]
01:24:32 ◼ ► Not a single person the company voter base all the people in the company want to you have a Mark O'Connor. [TS]
01:24:38 ◼ ► They wanted to continue doing masters of their own destinies they want to continue to be the family that is that [TS]
01:24:43 ◼ ► decides if we decide what Penny Arcade does we collectively we twelve or twenty people in this room. [TS]
01:24:50 ◼ ► It's more important to us than the money to continue to be able to steer our own ship. [TS]
01:24:56 ◼ ► And I think that speaks to the kind of company and is. I just think. One idea person. I mean just as. [TS]
01:25:04 ◼ ► They have multiple hours doing multiple things and multiple comic strips and. One person is not enough. [TS]
01:25:24 ◼ ► Not server ministration or infrastructure management you know burning. Load balancer and stuff. [TS]
01:25:33 ◼ ► And that's out that's actually very expensive by the way but he pays Rex base to do and. [TS]
01:25:38 ◼ ► So it actually sounds like they don't really have a dedicated system in at all like eat. [TS]
01:25:43 ◼ ► It isn't even that this person's doing. All four of those jobs with equal weight. It's he's mostly a developer. [TS]
01:25:49 ◼ ► And he happens to do a little bit of system integration for the most part most system in tasks. [TS]
01:25:57 ◼ ► It's going on a company that's not a software company tries to write software internally they don't know they don't [TS]
01:26:02 ◼ ► quite know what's involved in software and Penny Arcade. Seems like companies that. It's not if you. [TS]
01:26:11 ◼ ► Is this software and web services you provide like the whole company is focused around that [TS]
01:26:15 ◼ ► and Penny Arcade is a creative company their whole company is focused on creative endeavors [TS]
01:26:20 ◼ ► There did don't think of themselves as a company as like oh we run a Web site the Web site is like just how we get our [TS]
01:26:26 ◼ ► creative outlet to people and it seems like they don't you know don't know how to manage [TS]
01:26:32 ◼ ► Paying all that money to rack space again penny wise pound foolish. And like for the for the penny arcade. [TS]
01:26:39 ◼ ► Ticket sales I think the outsource that this year or some other company that does like Ticket sales things [TS]
01:26:43 ◼ ► and it did not go well like it went the same whenever you see you like cover it live [TS]
01:26:47 ◼ ► or whatever those live blogging platforms that are out there buying I tried to buy tickets are packed this year. [TS]
01:26:52 ◼ ► And it was the same situation as cover it live where the site was down and you were in a queue [TS]
01:26:57 ◼ ► and you can get pages to load in the never like lower than the C.S.S. and You can tell if you've purchased anything. [TS]
01:27:05 ◼ ► Like that is a core part of the business they should be investing in it way more than they are you know it's almost as [TS]
01:27:11 ◼ ► if like in in the tumbler Earl example it's almost as if they already have hired a David [TS]
01:27:20 ◼ ► I mean that in the least arrogant way that I can say it like they have the front end developer [TS]
01:27:25 ◼ ► and let the middleware developer and they haven't. Like this is the job of two people at least and. [TS]
01:27:36 ◼ ► And of course not going to pay somebody enough to do both. I think even the pay thing low. [TS]
01:27:41 ◼ ► It's so if they the Add the added honest to a fault and. But we don't have numbers. [TS]
01:27:56 ◼ ► All we can tell us from the people who work there and. This one person who's living. [TS]
01:28:06 ◼ ► ELSON is life like there they don't have a lot of turnover in their company they do run it more like a family it seems [TS]
01:28:11 ◼ ► like all the people who work there are happy with it otherwise why would they stay. [TS]
01:28:14 ◼ ► Not like a place where you know it and to be a lot of making a big deal about the do you know you. [TS]
01:28:21 ◼ ► It's inoffensive work environment or whatever someone missing that's like legally is boilerplate and. [TS]
01:28:26 ◼ ► That sounds vaguely plausible to me because at least one job that I work that I had to sign a thing that said you know. [TS]
01:28:32 ◼ ► As the core as a matter of course doing this job doing competitive research you may come across websites other people [TS]
01:28:37 ◼ ► find offensive and blah blah basically was just saying you may see porn sites. As part of your work. [TS]
01:28:53 ◼ ► and doing competitive research you may agree on a course of things over never that seems like actually kind of [TS]
01:28:58 ◼ ► reasonable thing to say up front to people that like for example you're familiar with a R.K. [TS]
01:29:03 ◼ ► But just so you know this is what it's about this is what you may come in contact with. It is not I think. [TS]
01:29:11 ◼ ► or probably because I have to believe that if anything like that was going on inside Penny Arcade we would hear about [TS]
01:29:16 ◼ ► it right. Like that they're not they're not the N.S.A. Than a CIA the not silencing people as they go out the door. [TS]
01:29:23 ◼ ► Everyone who works there seems to like working in there they all seem to like each other the people who leave. [TS]
01:29:29 ◼ ► Maybe it's like a cult numbering washing everybody but I have a really hard time believing that. [TS]
01:29:37 ◼ ► And I sure as hell wouldn't take that job myself but I am I definitely have mixed feelings about it is this a you know. [TS]
01:29:52 ◼ ► And they're super happy with it for you know even if they're only happy with their two years like I have people are [TS]
01:29:58 ◼ ► sometimes are in jobs for less than two years who are you to say that person they shouldn't have taken that job. [TS]
01:30:03 ◼ ► Maybe in retrospect they will feel like they should and I know if I took that job. [TS]
01:30:06 ◼ ► And then grew to my current ripe old age. I would regret having taken that job but that's me. [TS]
01:30:11 ◼ ► Everyone's different so I don't know. I don't think. I mean to wrap this up because I think I think. [TS]
01:30:18 ◼ ► I think it's a complicated issue because it divides people along the same lines as like. [TS]
01:30:26 ◼ ► How much the government should mandate about how things are done or how you. How you live your own life. [TS]
01:30:32 ◼ ► And people are so split on issues like this like it. Labor laws almost always have this kind of problem. [TS]
01:30:37 ◼ ► Where it's like well if you know the the government or the society's expectations or you know from critics like us. [TS]
01:30:45 ◼ ► We might say oh well. Having having like workaholism be the norm is really bad and you know you. [TS]
01:30:56 ◼ ► You know limited hours or paid overtime to discourage constant overworking and stuff like that. You know you have. [TS]
01:31:04 ◼ ► You have issues where a lot of people think that that should be regulated that the government should say. [TS]
01:31:10 ◼ ► The government should step in and play well it's really better for people overall. [TS]
01:31:20 ◼ ► It's kind of like a parent role like you know we know better for you than what you've done what you're claiming so even [TS]
01:31:26 ◼ ► if the employer wants you to do something. And you agree and you will do it and you're happy doing it. [TS]
01:31:31 ◼ ► The you know the government might say you know that's actually worse for people in general so we're not going to allow [TS]
01:31:38 ◼ ► And that's a very controversial things similar to that similar to that all of our opinions on this like you said [TS]
01:31:43 ◼ ► earlier Casey and John both. You know if. If the employees there are happy in that environment. Is it really that bad. [TS]
01:31:51 ◼ ► And so I think. We can't really. You know we can say this is bad in general and generally you shouldn't take this job. [TS]
01:31:59 ◼ ► But if they happen to find somebody who will take that job which they probably all they almost certainly will very [TS]
01:32:07 ◼ ► We you know we can't really say like that person's an idiot like they're making that choice. [TS]
01:32:12 ◼ ► But I think we can say in general. You shouldn't do things like this at but even that is even as controversial. [TS]
01:32:21 ◼ ► You should even for the person taking that job like. You can't be sure that you're going to like it as much as you do. [TS]
01:32:36 ◼ ► There's so much low hanging fruit in terms of stopping the wall much all march of the world not paying their employees [TS]
01:32:45 ◼ ► Right so in the grand scheme of things it pales in comparison to the worker exploitation that happens lower down in the [TS]
01:32:50 ◼ ► scale of things but for our little you know. Enlightened world of developers and stuff. [TS]
01:32:59 ◼ ► and among developers is that we've probably all been in jobs where we felt like we were overworked [TS]
01:33:04 ◼ ► and we feel like we were in appreciated and then sharing this excess of the company [TS]
01:33:09 ◼ ► So be aware don't go in thinking it's all going to Rose in sunshine because it's really really tough especially we see [TS]
01:33:14 ◼ ► a young person doing it where they don't know they don't know they're going to like they don't know if they're going to [TS]
01:33:18 ◼ ► be happy because they don't have any experience with anything. And maybe they'll think alike it may be you know. [TS]
01:33:22 ◼ ► Burnout is definitely a possibility of the Be happy for the first year and realize. [TS]
01:33:26 ◼ ► I can never go anywhere in a miserable and I've sacrificed my entire life and I didn't realize I was doing it. [TS]
01:33:30 ◼ ► It's mostly like you're trying to help people go on with their eyes open and I think the brutal and honest [TS]
01:33:39 ◼ ► and daring to young people with less experience of like ought to do this thing because it's super hard and everything. [TS]
01:33:44 ◼ ► In general it's not even if you're even if they were fixed on the stupid plan of of hiring a single person to do all [TS]
01:33:52 ◼ ► There are better ways to go about presenting that position to have more have a better chance of finding a successful [TS]
01:34:02 ◼ ► And I'll add it with private companies is difficult but you don't just like to wait outside the company. [TS]
01:34:08 ◼ ► Just for that person to leave one two three four five six seven ten years from now and say. [TS]
01:34:12 ◼ ► How was it was it but you thought it was Are you happy. You know. We told you so get off my lawn. [TS]
01:34:17 ◼ ► I mean maybe admit you're going to tell you that maybe maybe they are going to love it maybe they got think it's [TS]
01:34:21 ◼ ► I have to say having consume tons and tons of Penny Arcade on content over the years [TS]
01:34:27 ◼ ► and there are many times I've said Boy I wish my work was like that boyish I cared about my coworkers the way they [TS]
01:34:34 ◼ ► and we just we just want them not to take advantage of that and like exploit somebody that. [TS]
01:34:40 ◼ ► We know we have this environment look awesome on camera and secretly inside were evil. [TS]
01:34:44 ◼ ► And we're going to abuse this person. And we're going to get some sucker in like that's. [TS]
01:34:59 ◼ ► Mike's many foot in mouth disease problems and his major problems understanding on line [TS]
01:35:04 ◼ ► and again this topic I don't think you guys know about them but it's probably not appropriate for a tech show [TS]
01:35:08 ◼ ► but this job listening is all right then. Let's wrap it up. Thanks a lot to our to sponsor this week. [TS]
01:35:28 ◼ ► With accidental Joe because it was that death was accidental. And you did a little bit. [TS]
01:36:06 ◼ ► It's a different key is paying our kid is a division of issue. A company that engender strong feelings so if we see. [TS]
01:36:32 ◼ ► and say they were defending him too much I'm from the people who love me OK didn't say we were saying bad things about [TS]
01:36:37 ◼ ► our Maybe we'll get almost no feedback at all which means that there is no overlap in our audiences. I wonder what. [TS]
01:36:44 ◼ ► What do you think will be more hated. Our opinion. Our collective opinion on a penny arcade job posting or me or Casey. [TS]
01:36:58 ◼ ► Probably the right I really hated Margo in cases opinion of the bit now I think I'll get the worst of it because the [TS]
01:37:07 ◼ ► or like you you acknowledge the unknowns in a situation like all we have to go on is a job posting at a bunch of video [TS]
01:37:17 ◼ ► And that hedging seems like what you're defending then you're saying there better is I'm just acknowledging the [TS]
01:37:21 ◼ ► unknowns of people hate that because it's not. They just want to see you decisively come down for against. [TS]
01:37:30 ◼ ► but I feel like it's its accuracy if the knowledge in the unknowns you can't make definitive statements without more [TS]
01:37:40 ◼ ► and so they want you to be certain about something and. I can't. Well I'm proud that I'm pronouncing to visit wrong. [TS]
01:37:46 ◼ ► Probably live. I've always heard divisive I bet if I looked it up in the dictionary now tell me this Tuesday. [TS]
01:37:52 ◼ ► I almost called you out on it but since I've gotten burned my a lot of burned myself so bad on these things. [TS]
01:37:58 ◼ ► I feel like Richard Pryor you know I've let myself up trying to smoke if you will not literally but figuratively. [TS]
01:38:07 ◼ ► or pronunciation issues it says one pronunciation devices while it's a divisive issue I'm still I'm still way ahead a [TS]
01:38:14 ◼ ► group or on mispronunciation. Your problem John. Is that you're a fan of Penny Arcade.. [TS]
01:38:26 ◼ ► I don't know that my I read the comic about. Well you K.C. and I as far as OK we don't give a shit about Penny Arcade. [TS]
01:38:32 ◼ ► Like I said I don't I don't I never going to the comic I was you know I like I've I've known of it for. I don't know. [TS]
01:38:38 ◼ ► Years a decade. But I've never read it regular I've never really cared and. Honestly when people link me to it. [TS]
01:38:50 ◼ ► but you're actually close enough that like any opinion you make. And you know as you said like by having a nuanced. [TS]
01:39:03 ◼ ► Like the people who don't like them from this job posting are going to be like. You didn't come down hard enough. [TS]
01:39:12 ◼ ► Like but the thing is it's like the cult of personality where you think you know people who listen to their podcast [TS]
01:39:21 ◼ ► and going to like inventions you start to feel like you know the people and when they do. Terrible stupid things. [TS]
01:39:27 ◼ ► If you don't know them. You just simply condemn them and say you have done a terrible stupid thing. [TS]
01:39:33 ◼ ► You did a terrible stupid thing like if your friend does it don't you like talk to your friend [TS]
01:39:36 ◼ ► and say What are you doing man like. Because they've done lots of terrible stupid things. [TS]
01:39:46 ◼ ► Hey there's a thing I never heard of you know when someone thinks you do something or someone said something dumb. [TS]
01:39:50 ◼ ► And you have no idea who it is all you know is like oh man this person is a terrible person. Right. [TS]
01:39:56 ◼ ► or some politician you never heard of saying something terrible. You just instantly go back I suppose All right. [TS]
01:40:04 ◼ ► You want to talk to your brothers they were you doing man I you know you'd hope is that I know you're not as terrible [TS]
01:40:12 ◼ ► and that's how I feel that the penny arcade stuff like it was a good poster and see Frontalot which is a musician [TS]
01:40:17 ◼ ► and also a friend of the guys with a similar conflict going. You're enjoying a terrible thing. [TS]
01:40:29 ◼ ► Fix it and seeing them not take those two steps. Not seem to realize what was wrong with they did. [TS]
01:40:34 ◼ ► And not seeming to fix it is just so frustrating a lot of people are sort of cutting ties or like you've had. [TS]
01:40:40 ◼ ► You know three strikes you're out you keep doing these dumb things. And maybe they just don't have people around them. [TS]
01:40:44 ◼ ► Explain to them what the problem of the really can turn a lot is it. And like it's. [TS]
01:40:54 ◼ ► Un spoken relationship with these people where I totally don't the same way that people feel like they know us because [TS]
01:41:03 ◼ ► What I don't want people think is because I'm close to it I defend these terrible things they do which again I don't [TS]
01:41:10 ◼ ► I don't think that was the right way to go about that on so many different levels. Despite the fact that I. [TS]
01:41:15 ◼ ► Knowledge that it is very possible that the president takes the job will be happy with it [TS]
01:41:23 ◼ ► You know it's funny hearing you talk about you know knowing someone who does something stupid and knowing [TS]
01:41:31 ◼ ► And I feel like Marco that's why you get burned a lot because you're very passionate in very Pinney needed which in [TS]
01:41:37 ◼ ► and of itself is not bad but I think that a lot of times you come across as arrogant and because I know you [TS]
01:41:49 ◼ ► but also the Internet go free cannot speak as Marco said this you know ridiculously arrogant thing. [TS]
01:41:54 ◼ ► And some Me I'm just like we want. Because I know you and I know. I know one off a bell. [TS]
01:42:04 ◼ ► or even if it is you meant to you know Level two out of ten in the internets taking to the level ten out of ten. [TS]
01:42:10 ◼ ► And it's a very it's a very similar thing and so it's often funny for me to watch some of the skirmishes you. [TS]
01:42:21 ◼ ► but most times I'm like oh that instance market the market whatever you get graded on a curve once once you have any [TS]
01:42:33 ◼ ► and they guess what you get the good in the bad that comes with that I mean Same with the market would you rather have [TS]
01:42:37 ◼ ► people not care what you say. Or overreact. About what you say and they mean like. [TS]
01:42:43 ◼ ► I know but that but that's the price of being well known that the price of being successful in your endeavors is that. [TS]
01:42:48 ◼ ► Things you say are going to be scrutinized I mean the obvious that the biggest event of any kind of politician [TS]
01:42:53 ◼ ► or the president rather they say anything a fart the wrong way to say they don't like broccoli as an international [TS]
01:42:57 ◼ ► incident number that with. Maybe you don't. George Bush anyway. We were alive for that. [TS]
01:43:08 ◼ ► and be railed against the the unfairness of being being held to the standard that they didn't want to sign up for [TS]
01:43:16 ◼ ► and like. That's. I understand the emotion. But you have to realize that comes with the territory you. Can't you can't. [TS]
01:43:26 ◼ ► but I don't except that you're going to scrutinize me therefore my actions shouldn't be taken as seriously as they are [TS]
01:43:32 ◼ ► you don't get to decide that right. You do speak for a large media conglomerate empire. [TS]
01:43:37 ◼ ► Your words do have more effect than they would if your regular press and you can't go back to being a regular joe. [TS]
01:43:44 ◼ ► Yeah. It's. That's the way it is I feel like I should if I sit down with them for like. [TS]
01:43:49 ◼ ► OK maybe they would have to be an island for a month. Because sometimes I feel like I thought. [TS]
01:43:54 ◼ ► I'm going to see jobs in a room I could convince him of X. Y. and Like not realistically he would walk out of the room. [TS]
01:44:02 ◼ ► So that they can run away eventually though it's like in the movie where like some. [TS]
01:44:06 ◼ ► You know there's a prisoner or even just like a student to like him to being the hate the teacher [TS]
01:44:18 ◼ ► and explain to them what it is they're missing because I really believe they can be turned around just haven't done yet. [TS]
01:44:27 ◼ ► I know that's that's problems hero that Herod is I mean like this like maybe someone could explain to you maybe no [TS]
01:44:33 ◼ ► one's explaining at the right way let me explain it again and his role. Well and you know it's hard when. [TS]
01:44:44 ◼ ► You know I get some small fraction of that amount of crap and. I am. I'm always surprised. [TS]
01:44:53 ◼ ► In the new way that I've accidentally offended people like. It's a new it's like every week. [TS]
01:44:59 ◼ ► I accidentally stumble upon a new way to I've offended somebody. And it gets to me it really does I you know. [TS]
01:45:06 ◼ ► I want to be a nice guy I don't want to be a dick. I don't want people to think I'm a dick. [TS]
01:45:15 ◼ ► I think that's that's totally unintentional but you but you would learn from your mistakes like [TS]
01:45:23 ◼ ► but they'll they'll say something that is like unintentionally. Sexist or Transvaal because something. And they'd. [TS]
01:45:29 ◼ ► And they literally don't know what they just did wrong. And that's the problem. Right. And that. [TS]
01:45:36 ◼ ► And the worst reactions to get defensive in double down and that's what they do they get grants of [TS]
01:45:43 ◼ ► That's all they have like trying to educate someone to like if you do something that is legitimately. [TS]
01:45:52 ◼ ► and whatever I feel like that you learn from that experience and learn to say the same thing in a different way [TS]
01:45:59 ◼ ► You know express your express your sentiment more accurately so it's less likely to be misinterpreted the wrong way. [TS]
01:46:05 ◼ ► I don't think you've ever been a situation where you said something that is like totally wrong and terrible. [TS]
01:46:13 ◼ ► No Actually screw you and let me tell you why I'm going to say that even more like that total. [TS]
01:46:24 ◼ ► Well not always something you know meant but know that's that's the problem is like my instinct. I think. [TS]
01:46:33 ◼ ► I look back on these on like you know things that that blow up didn't mean to blow up that [TS]
01:46:42 ◼ ► After it's all over and I and I can see like wow I did completely the wrong thing like I I got the fences. [TS]
01:46:48 ◼ ► I was being a mature or angry or impulsive like. I look back and I'm ashamed of it but you know it's easy to say. [TS]
01:46:55 ◼ ► But you but you learn from it the don't you like you don't make that exact specific mistake again right. [TS]
01:46:59 ◼ ► Yeah but I find new ones like you know it's. It's easy to say Oh. If I was in the situation like this. I would. [TS]
01:47:07 ◼ ► I would do X. Y. and Z. Like I would react this way. But then it's. When you're actually in that situation. [TS]
01:47:16 ◼ ► So hard when you when your instinct is to be defensive or to say things off the cuff. [TS]
01:47:24 ◼ ► As if you're talking to a smaller group of people who likes you more than the actual group people are talking to that's [TS]
01:47:31 ◼ ► It's really hard to get used to that and it's really hard to to fundamentally change your behavior your personality. [TS]
01:47:37 ◼ ► To to stand off those rough edges I mean. I'm thirty one and I still haven't figured out how to do that quite well yet. [TS]
01:47:45 ◼ ► But I really have not figured it out yet there are similar ages I think every tween you [TS]
01:47:52 ◼ ► Similar age like they're trying to figure it out as well and that that instinct to lash out like it's. [TS]
01:47:59 ◼ ► It's not just instinct lash out it's like the things that you get called on are just so minor compared to the things [TS]
01:48:06 ◼ ► Well I think it's mostly because I have a much smaller audience so like if I had an audience the size of there's I [TS]
01:48:12 ◼ ► think I would get as much as they do if not more because I'm even less experienced at talking to an audience as large [TS]
01:48:21 ◼ ► as theirs as they are. Well I mean. Here's a guy name never like that. So you said something like. You know. [TS]
01:48:28 ◼ ► Well everyone knows the girls can climb trees I guess is something sexist like that right. And. [TS]
01:48:32 ◼ ► And you didn't understand that that statement was sexist. You. All you can see is about the tree climbing business. [TS]
01:48:38 ◼ ► And like you didn't understand conceptual conceptually like you know like what sex is about that's just a statement of [TS]
01:48:44 ◼ ► fact everyone knows girls can't climb trees like you don't understand the broader context in which US They've been [TS]
01:48:48 ◼ ► and like. Then you double down you get are you about and you get lost in the details and it's like you like. [TS]
01:48:55 ◼ ► There is a base understanding of what it is stay here that. That does not exist in your head. [TS]
01:49:01 ◼ ► And so even if you get to the point as they frequently do where they are an apology mode [TS]
01:49:07 ◼ ► The last thing you want to do is offend people we care about all these people like honest statements of apology [TS]
01:49:11 ◼ ► but they don't understand what they're apologizing when they don't understand like the you know. [TS]
01:49:16 ◼ ► The historical and cultural context of sexism versus just well I said something wrong kind of. [TS]
01:49:22 ◼ ► At some point and now I have to apologize for it but I don't really understand what I'm falling for. [TS]
01:49:29 ◼ ► and nothing you have done is ever reach that level of like you not you understand why someone is like if you say [TS]
01:49:35 ◼ ► something that dismissive of like some programming I wouldn't people get you understand it's because you were [TS]
01:49:44 ◼ ► Programmer things like that the context that you are completely unaware of or not able to internalize [TS]
01:49:48 ◼ ► and it's hard lot of people are not able to internalize those things and. One way is to just you know. [TS]
01:49:55 ◼ ► and the other way is to try to explain to you know they call them allies like someone who wants to do the right thing [TS]
01:50:00 ◼ ► but doesn't understand what they did wrong to try to bring them onto your side but explain what they did wrong. [TS]
01:50:06 ◼ ► Like those blogs I think serve a purpose because I feel like I have in seeing not just them [TS]
01:50:10 ◼ ► but on every other Internet blog where someone says something and then than some interest group jumps on them [TS]
01:50:24 ◼ ► In a way that gives me a bigger picture of like humanity like makes you question your assumptions about things that you [TS]
01:50:45 ◼ ► Which of this to bed I'm only on tech podcasts I would love to be on progress to talk specifically about the issues [TS]
01:50:50 ◼ ► involved here but it is not appropriate for tech but yes it does make a new one I mean you know who was another bug as. [TS]
01:51:06 ◼ ► but lamenting is probably a better word to Marco I think was earlier today that as part of my new found order ideas [TS]
01:51:19 ◼ ► but I feel like I'm getting the point that everything I post anywhere in any capacity is met with a million. [TS]
01:51:30 ◼ ► It gets annoying and it gets frustrating and a lot of times I want to engage and where I think Mark [TS]
01:51:36 ◼ ► and I are both learning is. I'm trying to get better about not engaging. But my national reaction is. [TS]
01:51:44 ◼ ► You know somebody posts on Twitter if you know what exactly they said but something. [TS]
01:51:48 ◼ ► Something along the lines of oh you know our well yeah that's what it was it was you know I Show on Blog had had asked [TS]
01:52:03 ◼ ► Because I'm an idiot I engaged and I said something along the lines of Well you know. [TS]
01:52:21 ◼ ► No I don't think that's because I didn't see see you. But if you could look look at the thread you'll see. [TS]
01:52:32 ◼ ► You know like maybe and maybe it was inappropriate for you to engage in that thing and just so i times [TS]
01:52:36 ◼ ► when I don't like here has been about like a lot of times people will say that they don't like your whatever. [TS]
01:52:48 ◼ ► They will be expressing it not so many words that they have different priorities than you do. [TS]
01:52:54 ◼ ► The fact that they're throwing that in your face may bother you but you have to also like. [TS]
01:52:59 ◼ ► It's OK for people to have a different opinion it's not like what you do like. All right. Like that. There's nothing. [TS]
01:53:06 ◼ ► There's an argument to be had You're not going to turn them around you're not going to. [TS]
01:53:10 ◼ ► It's not my job and not my desire to find everyone who doesn't like me can and they should like me. Right. [TS]
01:53:15 ◼ ► The only thing I will engage on is people being mean for no good reason and people getting facts wrong. [TS]
01:53:25 ◼ ► So if you will get facts wrong I will correct them because that is something where there is you know. [TS]
01:53:32 ◼ ► and people being I mean most of the time I will let that slide but today when I saw that tweet. You were talking about. [TS]
01:53:38 ◼ ► I didn't want all of that slide. And I thank my responses don't be a jerk. Because like there's a don't be a jerk. [TS]
01:53:48 ◼ ► You don't like we had to say Fine don't keep throwing in their faith in your we don't like your You're going like [TS]
01:53:53 ◼ ► ending you said OK fine don't listen to show the end period. Don't be a jerk about it. And so that's you know. [TS]
01:54:02 ◼ ► It's nothing wrong with them maybe you don't like looking at us plenty of things that I like to listen to [TS]
01:54:07 ◼ ► But I think the people out and tell them how much I don't like them repeatedly that's just being a dark. Yeah. [TS]
01:54:12 ◼ ► I think people. People who don't get a lot of random strangers giving them feedback. [TS]
01:54:22 ◼ ► when you have a lot of RAM drinkers giving you feedback on the Internet like you know just for extreme version of this. [TS]
01:54:36 ◼ ► or more like look at look at look at Gruber's celebrity. You know. Look at river's stream. Look at his that replied. [TS]
01:54:42 ◼ ► You know look anybody anybody who has a large following. Who who says anything of any. You know value ever and. [TS]
01:54:50 ◼ ► You're going to see hundreds and hundreds of people calling him a criminal and tell them they're an idiot. [TS]
01:54:56 ◼ ► And you know when you put yourself out there. And once you get any size audience at all. [TS]
01:55:03 ◼ ► You're going to get a lot of really good feedback from people. And you could get. You could get a hundred positive. [TS]
01:55:11 ◼ ► Saying that they liked what you wrote and that was great and then you get four idiots who tell you that your. [TS]
01:55:22 ◼ ► It's really you know for some people who have a thick skin you know it's easy for to let that. [TS]
01:55:32 ◼ ► Some people read it bothers them like and I think that is the natural the natural reaction is that's a bother you [TS]
01:55:38 ◼ ► and I'm one of those people. It bothers me. And every every nasty thing that I that I get bothers me. Which is one. [TS]
01:55:47 ◼ ► Like. So my recommended thing to Casey but you know I told him earlier I am like. My strategy for this is. [TS]
01:55:54 ◼ ► If somebody says something. Uncivil or by my definition on reasonable in some way over Twitter. I just block them. [TS]
01:56:07 ◼ ► when you block somebody actually remove the tweet from your timeline you stop seeing it and. [TS]
01:56:20 ◼ ► And so you know you might have like four guys who troll you with everything you write or say. [TS]
01:56:29 ◼ ► So if you go hand out for blocks you're limited like eighty percent of your trolling you see. [TS]
01:56:34 ◼ ► And I know that you know a lot of people and John even you said you like a lot of people would engage with that [TS]
01:56:40 ◼ ► or try to comment or fight back and. And I found that. Almost universally never to be worthwhile. [TS]
01:56:47 ◼ ► And almost universally always makes everything worse and makes me get more angry or annoyed [TS]
01:56:53 ◼ ► or feeling bad about it like it just builds the negativity in the best way for me to handle it just to remove it. [TS]
01:57:08 ◼ ► But because he wrote things with strong opinions to an audience of programmers. He got the worst crap from people ever. [TS]
01:57:14 ◼ ► EDITION to all the positive and he wrote in one of his one of his last like Main Post [TS]
01:57:22 ◼ ► One of things he wrote was like he could get one hundred positive comments and one negative one [TS]
01:57:26 ◼ ► and that negative only bother him all day. And I totally get that on the exact same way. Oh yeah. [TS]
01:57:31 ◼ ► If you can learn to to not think you should because I think you should do whatever it takes to you know. [TS]
01:57:38 ◼ ► Have an even keel and if it's blocking that's what it is but as someone who usually. [TS]
01:57:43 ◼ ► I have very rarely buy of like spammers obviously but I very rarely block people who are being jerks to me. [TS]
01:57:53 ◼ ► Some kernel of truth in the in the negative feedback the you get particularly in the negative feedback that you hate [TS]
01:58:00 ◼ ► If someone says something to you like and they said to me that that I am tremendously overweight. [TS]
01:58:10 ◼ ► Right then that bothers you more in the closer they get to the truth even if they're super mean about it [TS]
01:58:15 ◼ ► and don't rely on aren't you know that if they're saying it much worse than it is. [TS]
01:58:20 ◼ ► If there is some kernel of truth you can have the most visceral negative reaction to that. [TS]
01:58:27 ◼ ► and learn from whatever that kernel of truth that it is figure it out examine it and try to improve on that axis. [TS]
01:58:34 ◼ ► If you think it's an important thing to improve on maybe the person saying you're doing something that they think is [TS]
01:58:38 ◼ ► bad that you think is good then fine whatever ignore them but if. If it really bothers you because you also kind of. [TS]
01:58:47 ◼ ► and try to make it better doesn't mean you have to absorb tons of abuse to make this happen you can still block a [TS]
01:58:57 ◼ ► and just you know sort of becoming a Hollywood rock star where you don't have anything like you become Tom Cruise [TS]
01:59:06 ◼ ► Where you were you don't let anything negative in you start living in your own bubble. [TS]
01:59:11 ◼ ► You don't want that to happen you don't want to isolate yourself so much from feedback that you are inside a bubble [TS]
01:59:17 ◼ ► and I found that most people. If you call them on their B.S. Most people will be you know. You know a little bit. [TS]
01:59:26 ◼ ► They'll build a little bit of introspection if you do in the right way it's very difficult to do you have to disengage [TS]
01:59:41 ◼ ► And some person responded to me and said boy that kid you know your kid is a big Brad or something like that right. [TS]
01:59:51 ◼ ► and two like it's a seven year old like crying about her five year old whatever is crying about things that five year [TS]
02:00:00 ◼ ► I'm not going to convince them that kid is not a brat that's not my goal. But they got a factor on so I said. [TS]
02:00:07 ◼ ► And you know I didn't try to and you would know that if you listen to the blow up no I just looked at my kid. [TS]
02:00:16 ◼ ► and that's an unkind thing to say because it's an unkind thing to say you're going to say kid you see on the video was [TS]
02:00:23 ◼ ► That is an unkind thing to say and that's it that's all I said and this was an older woman who said this or whatever [TS]
02:00:28 ◼ ► and right or wrong you know you think like us older women should be some people are all places people are mean. [TS]
02:00:33 ◼ ► This person was not convinced my by my you know they agreed that it was a mean thing to say [TS]
02:00:42 ◼ ► but I still think they're kind of brought in that was it like I'm not going to pursue that further. [TS]
02:00:46 ◼ ► But I think that that tiny piece feedback I gave them. Correcting the fact and saying that they were being unkind. [TS]
02:00:58 ◼ ► I may be dismissed and move on with their life but I hope that's planning a little see in every month in them. [TS]
02:01:06 ◼ ► If that was my kid maybe our reaction would be much more violent than I would block them and I would argue with them [TS]
02:01:12 ◼ ► You know the correct reaction if you're going to engage at all is to try to help that person realize what a jerk [TS]
02:01:17 ◼ ► they're being moral right and like what you said is exactly correct which is like. [TS]
02:01:21 ◼ ► You know when the criticism is a little bit true. That's what hurts the most. And I think. [TS]
02:01:31 ◼ ► Completely is not good that's that's really bad I mean one thing I love about putting myself out there online is that I [TS]
02:01:40 ◼ ► get challenged on so many things that it forces me to become a better person it makes me a better writer. [TS]
02:01:46 ◼ ► It makes me a better thinker. It makes me a better person to have so much constant feedback. Good and bad. [TS]
02:01:53 ◼ ► The problem is it's. You have to draw a line somewhere you have to be able to distinguish between good feedback and. [TS]
02:02:10 ◼ ► You also have to have to make sure that you're not going to get such a massive deluge of negative feedback constantly [TS]
02:02:22 ◼ ► And you know make you leave the internet or stop doing something like. I have so many horrible vocal traits. [TS]
02:02:30 ◼ ► Somehow not a lot of people have called me out on it in public because people aren't that mean I guess. [TS]
02:02:40 ◼ ► Five years ago that I would be making a good chunk of my living from podcasts. Because I'm not a good speaker at all. [TS]
02:02:49 ◼ ► I have so many problems I thought about going to a speech therapist as an adult to fix. Weird things I do want to talk. [TS]
02:03:00 ◼ ► But it's important to distinguish between people being mean for for invalid reasons or just being mean you know. [TS]
02:03:11 ◼ ► Can i don't think here because I think I have a great example so this person were talking earlier the that was being a [TS]
02:03:17 ◼ ► troll was just saying you know. Literally he. This person said I wish there was a way to mute out. [TS]
02:03:25 ◼ ► That's just that's just really not necessary and like John city the johns reply and said Don't be a jerk. [TS]
02:03:34 ◼ ► Why do you hedge so much you don't need to do that you know when I say well you know. [TS]
02:03:41 ◼ ► But that's just what I think like that I don't need to do that that's not necessary that is sometimes hurtful feedback [TS]
02:03:50 ◼ ► But it's good and positive and constructive feedback as opposed to. I wish I could meet two idiots. That's just not. [TS]
02:03:58 ◼ ► That's not helpful. And there is a big difference between the two. Right and like you know if. [TS]
02:04:11 ◼ ► or hundreds of listeners told me after my very first pod cast that they don't like the way. Talk. [TS]
02:04:17 ◼ ► We almost would have certainly stopped and left. And you know that's. Then like you know then everyone loses we lose. [TS]
02:04:26 ◼ ► That's bad for everyone so it really is important to have some kind of balance and. [TS]
02:04:40 ◼ ► It's just to manage that incoming stream just so that you know I'm not trying to block out all criticism I do want to [TS]
02:04:47 ◼ ► I just want to try to filter out a lot of invalid criticism and a lot of unnecessary nastiness and. [TS]
02:04:58 ◼ ► One of the reasons I'm lighter on the blocking is because it's like I will never on block a person on your head because [TS]
02:05:06 ◼ ► And then finally like I'm like oh but you never going to do that and like everyone has a bad day. [TS]
02:05:11 ◼ ► Everyone is cranky about something they don't like something you say they'll say some mean thing. [TS]
02:05:14 ◼ ► I'm willing to give people. You know the benefit of the doubt they say some jerky thing. [TS]
02:05:26 ◼ ► or anything that I do with they're just here to harass me no then they just become this becomes harassment [TS]
02:05:31 ◼ ► and then yes you. Paul the block I don't have people like that but. For example a game like the sexes and thing. [TS]
02:05:38 ◼ ► Tons and tons of people who are just there to be evil harassers and dangerous kinds of ways [TS]
02:05:49 ◼ ► and I can't even imagine with I'll be like they were whining about people saying that we don't have a good pod cast [TS]
02:05:54 ◼ ► which is nothing compared to the crap they get but yet that there is different categories [TS]
02:05:59 ◼ ► and the cat category of negative feedback I get is of a kind where I do not find myself having to hand out the blocks [TS]
02:06:11 ◼ ► You've managed to develop your your way of arguing and presenting points. So well. [TS]
02:06:18 ◼ ► And this is probably because you're so ancient compared to us knew the man is the power of Usenet if you want to see me [TS]
02:06:25 ◼ ► making terrible arguments go search for us at archives for yet. Burned in the crucible of flame wars on usenet. [TS]
02:06:38 ◼ ► What a decade longer than we have or close to it you know that. Like you're a lot better at it. [TS]
02:06:44 ◼ ► You're like you know you're like you know there's this large chunk of time ahead of us in having all those rough edges [TS]
02:06:58 ◼ ► I don't think it's necessarily age because you can find fifty year olds who are just babyish like. [TS]
02:07:06 ◼ ► when I found the internet the thing I wanted to do with it was argue about computers with it like like so many other [TS]
02:07:11 ◼ ► people and argue about computers I did and argue about computers besom are people. Eventually teaches you. [TS]
02:07:23 ◼ ► And how to be able to either it makes you flee or like it you double down and become even a bigger jerk or if you. [TS]
02:07:28 ◼ ► If this is really something you want to pursue which it was for me. I became better at it it's like. [TS]
02:07:39 ◼ ► And your reaction is to just hit the ball hard you can enjoy the air that is not getting better. [TS]
02:07:51 ◼ ► Let me practice and you know and different people have different reactions I think it's. It's not so much. [TS]
02:07:57 ◼ ► but it's like what you did with those years because again I know plenty of people and you know on Usenet in forums [TS]
02:08:13 ◼ ► and there are other people who are slowly getting better and who eventually. That because if you pursue that as like. [TS]
02:08:18 ◼ ► This is something I'm interested I'm interested in arguing sounds crazy but it's you know. Some people are into it. [TS]
02:08:24 ◼ ► That does not sound crazy at all that it's not just coming from you that you would be interested in arguing. [TS]
02:08:32 ◼ ► Why do you bother putting your opinions on blogs like why do you. You know like you want. [TS]
02:08:36 ◼ ► You want to say here's what I have to say what do you have to say you want to hear like good feedback from smart people [TS]
02:08:42 ◼ ► and forth if you didn't care if you weren't interested in that you wouldn't be putting your opinions out there. [TS]
02:08:46 ◼ ► Like you wouldn't. Crave that back and forth so that's something you're doing with your life. [TS]
02:08:51 ◼ ► I am the first when I publish a blog post. The very first thing I do is basically spend the next forty five minutes. [TS]
02:09:11 ◼ ► It wouldn't give me as much of a return of satisfaction. Which is probably saying a lot about me and my you know. [TS]
02:09:26 ◼ ► It would feel very strange Now if I didn't get a kind of feedback. You know and very close friend of the show. [TS]
02:09:35 ◼ ► I find it really important to have a group of trusted friends who can tell you honest criticism. [TS]
02:09:41 ◼ ► And I completely agree with them I think it's nice to have a little bit of unsolicited feedback as long as it's [TS]
02:09:52 ◼ ► and I know that more often than not he's not intending to be an acquittal. But maybe somebody who doesn't know Marco. [TS]
02:10:00 ◼ ► and so it might be useful for market to hear some random person say hey you know what you really came off like it [TS]
02:10:06 ◼ ► But generally speaking I think it's extremely important just like Dave said to have a group that can call you out in [TS]
02:10:17 ◼ ► and it can be about what you're working on it could be about something call you know just how you treat people could be [TS]
02:10:27 ◼ ► So give us here all the handbrakes that are going to cover that section of it actually a step in the process to my best. [TS]
02:10:32 ◼ ► But I think it's better than the show a little different it's definitely another tack by guess on by the way speaking [TS]
02:10:38 ◼ ► of things that people get wrong no one is called me and they were my friends calling me on these things. [TS]
02:10:43 ◼ ► To chat room call me as they called me on divisive but not call me in that I believe [TS]
02:10:47 ◼ ► when I partition Maryland for an Aryan style song parody for our style parity for our song. Ironically misspoke. [TS]
02:10:56 ◼ ► The name of the R.E.M. Album. And I think I said plural murmurs and that's crazy talk. [TS]
02:11:00 ◼ ► And it was bad isn't it that just want everyone to know I know what the penalty I'm with I think this is meeting its [TS]
02:11:08 ◼ ► and it's like a song called me on that all the other this Dylan happens constantly is like my mispronunciation nuclear. [TS]
02:11:13 ◼ ► Like I mispronounce it all to I know it's wrong I'm not doing it on purpose I'm not like oh I'm taking a stand. [TS]
02:11:18 ◼ ► I'm going to say at their own way. Nope. I totally want to say it the right way every time. It just comes out. Nucular. [TS]
02:11:24 ◼ ► So many times and as I said in the many to retire I blame the eighty's like I do not want to say that. [TS]
02:11:29 ◼ ► It just happens I don't want to happen. I know it's wrong. Thank you for all the feedback people. I'm trying. [TS]
02:11:37 ◼ ► Also I didn't really intend for this to become group therapy but I'm kind of wedded to this was this was pretty good. [TS]
02:11:42 ◼ ► It's like back to work. Yeah yeah yeah I was just thinking myself this feels little back to work next week O.C.D. [TS]
02:11:54 ◼ ► And I actually I would love for Merlin to address this kind of topic at some point [TS]
02:12:05 ◼ ► and I think you talk a lot about like negative self talk like you. Being your own worst enemy. [TS]
02:12:11 ◼ ► but it's very it's a similar type of thing where sometimes the things you're saying to yourself. Are just mean. [TS]
02:12:16 ◼ ► And sometimes things you're saying to yourself are like there's a does a kernel of truth that you need to address and. [TS]
02:12:20 ◼ ► Like I feel like he has talked about this I feel like we just kind of did a miniature middle of some weird back to the [TS]
02:12:26 ◼ ► work. Thing back to the work. And now I was not ready to say the. There I know your friend. You know. [TS]
02:12:36 ◼ ► You would think the connection between your brain in your mouth is fairly solid. And I listen to myself. [TS]
02:12:41 ◼ ► Podcast and like. What in the hell did you just like. I had no I did during the pop guess but I said life. [TS]
02:12:51 ◼ ► I I'm I'm baffled as anyone else when I hear myself say it if you had told me what I had just that I heard then. [TS]
02:12:58 ◼ ► But anyway. It's terrible. I love how many people. Tweeted me over the last week. Thinking that. [TS]
02:13:04 ◼ ► When I said X bone repeatedly last week that was serious. How long if you listen to me you don't get that. [TS]
02:13:12 ◼ ► I joke about stuff like that sometimes come what I like the. I like about X. Bone. [TS]
02:13:16 ◼ ► Is that I don't think like the gamer community and internet fan base a large has decided whether X. [TS]
02:13:28 ◼ ► Or even just like like well that just become the way everyone says it's so far I think it's both. [TS]
02:13:37 ◼ ► And I think a lot of fans say it as a term of endearment and I just wanna see how it comes out in the end [TS]
02:13:42 ◼ ► and that being mostly a term I think I'll end up mostly being a term of endearment. [TS]
02:13:56 ◼ ► Microsoft gave it such a stupid real name that we have to come up with stupid alternatives. You know good old sunny. [TS]
02:14:02 ◼ ► They put a number after it. They make the number bigger. He wanted titles for I pass out. [TS]
02:14:10 ◼ ► and why he was so tired you know you one of those jobs are they work you like a dog AC doing how long the labor [TS]
02:14:15 ◼ ► Bergeron I don't know you're in the same time zone as us right. Yes Yes I'm just I'm old. I go to bed early and. [TS]
02:14:23 ◼ ► You people with your children you know we can't get on the grill I get on the mike until nine o'clock I'm usually [TS]
02:14:28 ◼ ► crawling in bed at ten. I'm old. The case you should take over as an old man. Crawling into bed and. Yeah. [TS]
02:14:34 ◼ ► Now I'm not arguing I didn't think there was ever really. I didn't think I was ever up for grabs. [TS]
02:14:43 ◼ ► That's is also being involved man with an old man phrasing I go out and play with my hope and stick later. But it. [TS]
02:14:57 ◼ ► The hope is that was a real thing but since I'm some dental I was I was referencing the disingenuous joke. It. [TS]
02:15:04 ◼ ► I think they had the of the first time I remember what the second sense is Monte Burns was like a kid [TS]
02:15:09 ◼ ► and he was playing with anyway. This is a really old phrase like well if I'm fine with that. [TS]