00:00:03 ◼ ► and then honestly I have no clue what the Russian show's going to bring So it's going to be a little wild lacky wild [TS]
00:00:14 ◼ ► So we should probably do some follow up starting with Computer Science John I have this a little bit of follow up on [TS]
00:00:26 ◼ ► What's a follow up on that and also directions a few themes I noticed in the feedback. [TS]
00:00:31 ◼ ► One theme or was a lot of people who either are involved in academia or feel some connection to it [TS]
00:00:37 ◼ ► and what they want to talk about with sort of field versus field their field versus someone else's field whatever their [TS]
00:00:48 ◼ ► They I don't know if they mis understood the discussion as if it was computer science versus of the field [TS]
00:00:56 ◼ ► and reminded me of this quote again from you know as they were in the way that the all codes apparently of Usenet [TS]
00:01:01 ◼ ► things and this one is computer science is no more about computers than astronomy is about telescopes. [TS]
00:01:08 ◼ ► I have a link that we can put in the show not they forget where the origin is but the little hash on the U.R.L. [TS]
00:01:16 ◼ ► but anyway that I think get to the heart of why we weren't talking about fields computer science vs any other field [TS]
00:01:22 ◼ ► because it's not computer science is not about computers it's you know we were talking about software [TS]
00:01:32 ◼ ► But anyway that's those are difficult different discussions they have about which field is superior to [TS]
00:01:41 ◼ ► and I were talking about the other one is people still want to talk about job difficulty. [TS]
00:01:47 ◼ ► You're saying your job is the hardest job in the world so on and so forth I thought I made it clear in the last show [TS]
00:02:00 ◼ ► It and so on and so forth that's also definite we're talking about once one persons [TS]
00:02:07 ◼ ► and complexity in the things we're talking about the last show which is from MIT is one of the ninety's courses on the [TS]
00:02:19 ◼ ► That's the one I think a thing of the book the book that they very much they have no idea lots of video lectures [TS]
00:02:25 ◼ ► and they said from minute nine to about ten minutes and forty five seconds in this recording. [TS]
00:02:30 ◼ ► The professor talks about a lot of the same things make the same argument I was making [TS]
00:02:37 ◼ ► and it's a fun you know video to watch if you just want to watch and mighty professor teach for a while. [TS]
00:02:43 ◼ ► and it's only a minute forty five seconds you know to watch the whole thing just scrub forward to nine. [TS]
00:02:58 ◼ ► All right so this wonderful feedback we got from a guy named John purple pilot on Twitter [TS]
00:03:04 ◼ ► and I love his name is John by the way so he says the fundamental mistake here of course is that woodpeckers do not [TS]
00:03:11 ◼ ► They pick trees trees are arguably the most complex things in existence by the way to get food store food [TS]
00:03:16 ◼ ► and to nest Deadwood I eat that which has been felt and chemically treated is of no use or interest to woodpeckers. [TS]
00:03:24 ◼ ► So wouldn't civilization would be secure from woodpeckers but probably vulnerable to woodworm or deathwatch beetles [TS]
00:03:29 ◼ ► or termites. So I'm pretty sure John if you ever get tired of doing the show we can replace you. [TS]
00:03:43 ◼ ► It would have been much better if he pretended he was serious because towards the end it's clear that he was joking [TS]
00:04:00 ◼ ► That's not criticizing it for us and the person knows that with a knowing e-mail I don't know. [TS]
00:04:13 ◼ ► And thank goodness he is named John because otherwise I would've been totally confused totally. [TS]
00:04:19 ◼ ► So what's often these days Marca this week response or once again by return sponsor from a while ago. [TS]
00:04:25 ◼ ► Ram objects so you might remember a long time ago we told you about RAM objects oxygen which is a cross platform [TS]
00:04:31 ◼ ► language that it was based on Pascal and it would let you compile for mac i OS Android Windows or even Windows Phone. [TS]
00:04:40 ◼ ► Ram object has a new language now. It's a similar kind of kind of deal it's but actually based on the C. [TS]
00:04:51 ◼ ► or she has you know that's it that's it it's take tactile board noted C. Sharp you big jerk. [TS]
00:05:00 ◼ ► and it's as a lot of the same advantages effect probably all the same as oxygen so this is really cool it's it brings [TS]
00:05:13 ◼ ► Sharp that you're writing and you're writing it against one hundred percent cocoa. [TS]
00:05:22 ◼ ► So I took a look at it very very briefly but I did take a look at it and I did try it [TS]
00:05:46 ◼ ► and so rather than using the dot net framework which is I believe Zambians approach which is more we're going to [TS]
00:05:53 ◼ ► obstruct the way cocoa behind the Dot Net framework that you're probably familiar with this is a little close. [TS]
00:06:07 ◼ ► and they even went to the point of extending the C. Sharp language such that you can use the Objective C. [TS]
00:06:17 ◼ ► or message names so I wrote code where I made an alert view in so it my code for those of you who writes the sharpies [TS]
00:06:28 ◼ ► Alert view space with title parin quote high parental Space message it's hundreds hundreds [TS]
00:06:39 ◼ ► Sharp in order to allow you to write directly against cocoa in cover touch the advantage there being that you're you're [TS]
00:06:57 ◼ ► and very interesting in the way they would have you write code is by writing in Visual Studio which I would argue is [TS]
00:07:03 ◼ ► the best idea in the world and then you run and you run an application ion on either your mac or a mac in the office [TS]
00:07:11 ◼ ► or a mac in the cloud and it basically compiles the binary dumps it on to that MAC [TS]
00:07:16 ◼ ► and lets you run your app you turn the simulator on the device whatever it's actually very straightforward very easy to [TS]
00:07:25 ◼ ► I can definitely see how this could make some really cool stuff without having to rely on somebody else's glue in [TS]
00:07:40 ◼ ► and writing cocoa applications with the seizure of language go to ram objects dot com R.E.M. [TS]
00:07:47 ◼ ► Objects dot com slash C S And you can see for yourself instead of a cool videos here you can see you can get more [TS]
00:08:00 ◼ ► You can actually get more information you see the kind of code Casey was writing. All right here these great videos. [TS]
00:08:04 ◼ ► Ram objects dot com slash C S Thank you so much to remap ject for sponsoring a show that you know I got to give him [TS]
00:08:17 ◼ ► So thanks a lot Rob just you know and I should also point out that that one of the things they say in their F.A.Q. [TS]
00:08:26 ◼ ► Is you know hey what with the framework being gone what about cool stuff like Link And so what they've done is they've [TS]
00:08:33 ◼ ► taken a lot of the link extension methods and it was pronounced a link that maybe if your surname is on. [TS]
00:08:42 ◼ ► But anyway they basically ported some of the more frequently used parts of link into their platform so that's a really [TS]
00:08:53 ◼ ► smart call and really really awesome to have have that tool in your tool chest. So cool. [TS]
00:08:59 ◼ ► Thanks what they can the i Pad two finally how how long was it on sale so forever. [TS]
00:09:11 ◼ ► So made it three years three full years of being on sale. Brand new and that is crazy talk. [TS]
00:09:18 ◼ ► Thing is only have one price drop. You know I wonder if that inventory they were trying to clear. [TS]
00:09:23 ◼ ► They just like made way too many of them because you could see how Apple wanted to get away from thirty pin everywhere [TS]
00:09:33 ◼ ► but like Lone real product lurching along with thirty that we've talked in past shows about why that we still want to [TS]
00:09:41 ◼ ► and all these other things that is why the lowest price possible but also my want the big screen [TS]
00:09:44 ◼ ► and don't care about retina and so on and so forth but it just seem like it but it just went on for so long and [TS]
00:09:51 ◼ ► and the things that they replaced the i Pad two not with like the next model up but with two models up. [TS]
00:10:00 ◼ ► Was to replace the i Pad two with the three are to continue with or opposing with before. [TS]
00:10:07 ◼ ► I have the three I like the phrase it's not that bad I agree I have well actually Aaron's using it now [TS]
00:10:16 ◼ ► Three is the one brief moment where Apple decided to do the thing they wouldn't move. [TS]
00:10:38 ◼ ► and I think there will be that that might also come with a you know I mean I was on the talk show while back [TS]
00:10:44 ◼ ► and I mention this to Gruber that like I feel like if they do a big phone that might give them permission if they keep [TS]
00:10:50 ◼ ► a small one in a line up the small one could be the one that keeps getting smaller and dinner [TS]
00:10:55 ◼ ► and the bigger one can have a little bit more permission to be a little bit thicker [TS]
00:11:01 ◼ ► but a nicer camera sensor because the camera sensor very limited very hard by thickness. [TS]
00:11:09 ◼ ► and things like optical in the stabilization and better focus possibly even a slight zoom capability. [TS]
00:11:15 ◼ ► If you could get a little more depth on the phone so I would love it if they you know obviously Apple's never going to [TS]
00:11:23 ◼ ► but if they have like you know a bigger i Phone that you know they'll keep the small WANT TO around for the nice [TS]
00:11:31 ◼ ► but then they can have this bigger one for people who want a better camera and a bigger battery. [TS]
00:11:38 ◼ ► and reaching the five years that the i Pod Touch My thing has a camera that is not flush with the back. [TS]
00:11:46 ◼ ► and they just keep going like well you can't go to ten because we had the camera it's like screw the camera we're going [TS]
00:11:53 ◼ ► I'm kind of surprised that they're still selling the i Pod Touch and tell me about it. [TS]
00:12:00 ◼ ► It seems like it's it doesn't sell that well and they don't care that much about it. [TS]
00:12:05 ◼ ► It's a kid's device though it's like a my first I.O.'s device because you can buy to be a kid you know I do worry about [TS]
00:12:09 ◼ ► cellphone stuff they can still play their I.O.'s games I think kids want them like based on talking to them [TS]
00:12:18 ◼ ► If they can have an i Phone which is of course what they really want but if they're too young for an i Phone [TS]
00:12:21 ◼ ► and i Pod touch is the thing that they want that's like you know they aspired to have an i Phone [TS]
00:12:28 ◼ ► But if they get that now and i Pod touch is the next best thing. You don't think the i Pad Mini has filled that role. [TS]
00:12:36 ◼ ► Not among the kids that I don't I don't think I haven't even seen an i Pad mini in the wild amongst the young kids yet [TS]
00:12:47 ◼ ► or maybe I don't know to too expensive to breakable I thought that's a much cheaper it would be nice if they revised [TS]
00:12:54 ◼ ► but looking at the I agree with you though John my sister in law who was in high school for the longest time until she [TS]
00:13:05 ◼ ► when I wasn't paying attention she was using an i Pod Touch In addition to like a flip phone [TS]
00:13:12 ◼ ► or one of those phones with a flight out so you can type on a full court a keyboard [TS]
00:13:16 ◼ ► when you wait so she was easier i Pod touches her kind of sort of smartphone. Well let me refrain from start to solar. [TS]
00:13:22 ◼ ► She was John Surtees and had an ancient nonce Mart phone and then used her i Pod Touch for doing smart things [TS]
00:13:30 ◼ ► and she said she loved it in the way she spoke about it it struck me as though that was a normal thing amongst her peer [TS]
00:13:45 ◼ ► I I'm pretty sure that they're going to be like what we don't need to make a figure we get all this extra area because [TS]
00:13:51 ◼ ► they will get a bigger battery because the phone has bigger like length and width wise [TS]
00:14:02 ◼ ► and I think they're not above having the camera stick out a little bit like it does in the i Pod touch [TS]
00:14:07 ◼ ► or perhaps even more because I think unless they change the whole design to be designed around those I think that Apple [TS]
00:14:14 ◼ ► absolutely does not want to bullshit all of the Android phones that you see out there [TS]
00:14:22 ◼ ► when they want to bigger camera they like we will smoothly kind of raise up some kind of lump [TS]
00:14:26 ◼ ► or it'll be like a lump with little ramps on the side or some kind of organic bulge type shape [TS]
00:14:32 ◼ ► and you could Apple could come up with a rounded bulging kind of like design kind of like the made to people remember [TS]
00:14:42 ◼ ► or any of those things like it's not it's not out of the realm of possibility that you go with something curved in fact [TS]
00:14:46 ◼ ► every time I think of an i Phone Sex I think of something at the curb and tapered on the edges [TS]
00:14:52 ◼ ► Yes I actually have dreams about the shape of the i Phone six and the fact that is not a prediction that's just [TS]
00:14:57 ◼ ► when I wake up having a dream where I saw the i Phone six it was curved in that anyway whatever you buy i Phones So why [TS]
00:15:21 ◼ ► and if they're going to have a camera stakeout it will be a completely flat surface with a cylinder that sticks out [TS]
00:15:25 ◼ ► from it and really that's not that bad and I guess if it sticks out too much you can get hung up on stuff [TS]
00:15:34 ◼ ► All that does is make the camera flush with the case or close to being flush with the case [TS]
00:15:39 ◼ ► and maybe it would help hold the case in place to keep from sliding I don't know I think Apple has options there I [TS]
00:15:45 ◼ ► think the I hope the bigger one has better battery life just because the batteries bigger then of course also have a [TS]
00:15:56 ◼ ► and you can actually make the big one thicker because we have a small one to fill it. [TS]
00:16:03 ◼ ► but you have two phones they don't have one they can have every possibility has a good argument for it would be [TS]
00:16:15 ◼ ► and so it's just because of the way in theory so I have a somewhat related question. [TS]
00:16:20 ◼ ► One of the things that bothers me about a case lists i Phone is a probably all in my head. [TS]
00:16:29 ◼ ► Fear that I'm going to scratch the lens of the camera and I wonder if the current research [TS]
00:16:39 ◼ ► or I guess are actually not even research they're building a plant to handle sapphires I cracked it. [TS]
00:16:47 ◼ ► and that's not the lens of the phone that's just the clear thing that covers the lens of the phone so sure if you've [TS]
00:16:52 ◼ ► got a scratch and that I'm not even sure optically whether that would show up in your pictures [TS]
00:17:02 ◼ ► That part of the phone assembly does not bend the light as far as I know it is purely there to protect the lens that [TS]
00:17:07 ◼ ► does Benoit's I'd imagine they could replace it for you. Reasonably inexpensively. [TS]
00:17:11 ◼ ► and also optically because of where it is in the optical path it would have to be a really bad scratch to show any kind [TS]
00:17:20 ◼ ► If you think about it like if you if you hold me very close to your eye you're focusing on something very far away. [TS]
00:17:25 ◼ ► You know it's like holding up a fishing line. An engine from your eye and focusing on something ten feet away. [TS]
00:17:33 ◼ ► So it has to be it has to be a pretty large problem on that surface to be visible in the photos. [TS]
00:17:43 ◼ ► or otherwise that's the outermost piece of the camera assembly it wouldn't make sense [TS]
00:17:50 ◼ ► and I don't know anything about photography but it makes sense for that to be like sapphire [TS]
00:17:53 ◼ ► or something very very hard so that if they hypothetically had a bulge for this camera assembly. [TS]
00:18:00 ◼ ► Maybe some of the marketing spiel could be owed Don't worry Casey Liss this won't scratch because it's sapphire in so [TS]
00:18:09 ◼ ► But it already is Sapphire is so that it is sapphire now yeah yeah on the five S. I thought that. [TS]
00:18:19 ◼ ► It's definitely for the camera at the touch touch ID home buttons I think it might also be [TS]
00:18:23 ◼ ► and that's I assume with the Sapphire planter building you know a lot of people speculated that they might be going for [TS]
00:18:28 ◼ ► an entire sapphire covered screen to replace that glass I have doubts about whether they can make enough of it to make [TS]
00:18:37 ◼ ► I'm guessing probably not because that's like if you think about the amount of i Phones that are made every year that's [TS]
00:18:44 ◼ ► all thought that's a lot of sapphire and as what we heard when the i Phone five S. [TS]
00:18:51 ◼ ► when it was pretty supply constrained I believe the prevailing wisdom on that was that it was related to supplies [TS]
00:18:59 ◼ ► and if that's the case then you can you can bet that you know there's only so much in love and such. [TS]
00:19:04 ◼ ► The sapphire might have been limitation and realtime follow up for me from me it is indeed on both the home button [TS]
00:19:16 ◼ ► The Touch ID is going to go on all their devices then they're going to weigh more sapphire [TS]
00:19:21 ◼ ► and they don't need to something like oh they're going to cover the screen just for you don't need to say oh well touch [TS]
00:19:25 ◼ ► I do will spread from it won't just be on the high end phone anymore it'll be an all sorts thing i Pads you know the [TS]
00:19:31 ◼ ► mid-range phones and so they get a lot more stuff are just for that so it makes sense. [TS]
00:19:35 ◼ ► And there's definitely you know you can you can look at what they did this last fall with the product line between i [TS]
00:19:40 ◼ ► Phone and i Pad and and the you know the eighty seven and pretty much every benefit of the i Phone five S. [TS]
00:19:48 ◼ ► Went into both I've had as well except Touch ID I don't know if the I'm seventy eight and [TS]
00:19:53 ◼ ► but that was that's less relevant and I've had but Touch ID was an obvious thing they left out there [TS]
00:20:03 ◼ ► and certainly John I agree that you know if they're if they're both in production it really could just be for more [TS]
00:20:10 ◼ ► I don't think sapphire would make that great of a screen covering either because it's not just hardness that you're [TS]
00:20:19 ◼ ► or the like Ben didn't show that it was stand spending industry strong in other ways besides just being scratch [TS]
00:20:25 ◼ ► resistant and I'm not so Sapphire has the same the durability characteristics it has Gorilla Glass [TS]
00:20:35 ◼ ► And someone somewhere knows better about the relative material abilities of sapphire and grill that say [TS]
00:20:48 ◼ ► and that maybe not maybe this will finally be the year of the rollerball flexible phone. [TS]
00:20:54 ◼ ► Who could the flexible funded L.G. Have flexible fun to see that one someone actually made one. [TS]
00:21:05 ◼ ► and it curves up like a little you know it's like concave and a finger comes down presses it [TS]
00:21:09 ◼ ► and so it goes from curved to be flat against the table like that's more or less how much like Sadat's think it was L.G. [TS]
00:21:23 ◼ ► and go if I keep flexing what happened for growth last year member of the destructive [TS]
00:21:29 ◼ ► If you'd like to take a thing and Wrapped Around Your Finger is no come back to shape right. [TS]
00:21:39 ◼ ► and you'll be feeling this is one of those things that people always fantasize about. [TS]
00:21:49 ◼ ► No one ever makes after that and I wonder what is the use case for that like what. [TS]
00:21:55 ◼ ► What use is a slightly flexible phone but that you can't like fold in half an. Make a lot smaller. [TS]
00:22:01 ◼ ► Yeah it's not a I mean it's an incremental step like the idea of things that are flexible is like there is there are [TS]
00:22:07 ◼ ► things that are flexible there is durable as you know like you can break it all you know you can do is bend it [TS]
00:22:15 ◼ ► and weigh a little bit of flexes that may be a step along the way to next year if I swear things called the Elegy flex [TS]
00:22:21 ◼ ► if you google for pictures of our clever name gee would expect we're also sponsored this week by a new sponsor to us as [TS]
00:22:32 ◼ ► far as I know but a very very old sponsored a pod casts. It's our friend that smile. [TS]
00:22:38 ◼ ► Now you've probably you probably heard of at least one smile formally smile software at least one smile product [TS]
00:22:46 ◼ ► and I use a lot myself actually so this week we've talked to you about text expander if you've ever heard a pod cast [TS]
00:23:03 ◼ ► and pictures so they you know they play all sorts of A can do so they say for example you can do look at your e-mail [TS]
00:23:11 ◼ ► signature you can automatically like you know type a couple characters to like you know E.M.'s are coming [TS]
00:23:15 ◼ ► and they will expand into your entirety most of which are you can you can have standard responses to emails [TS]
00:23:21 ◼ ► or whatever and you can even define a form fields within the responses you can feel like when I type in you know X.Y.Z. [TS]
00:23:28 ◼ ► or Whatever fill my default response but then there's like these form field and you can you can tap into them [TS]
00:23:34 ◼ ► or type like a reason like that like you can you can customize each one based on how you define a thing so it's a very [TS]
00:23:44 ◼ ► and expand them into whatever the heck you want this is one of those tools that like our friends Merlin [TS]
00:23:50 ◼ ► or they love these going towards because you can customize the crap out of this like you can do so much with this kind [TS]
00:24:00 ◼ ► All Scripts and shell scripts you can sink your snippets via Dropbox you can use them on multiple devices. [TS]
00:24:10 ◼ ► There's even the I was version and it works as an A.P.I. To other apps to integrate and over forty five apps. [TS]
00:24:24 ◼ ► and it all works really really great Dropbox ing awesome. So go to smile Software dot com slash A.T.P. [TS]
00:24:35 ◼ ► It really it's hard to cram a lot it's hard to really cram into this ad read everything Texas Mentor can do think of it [TS]
00:24:42 ◼ ► as expand keyboard shortcuts into predefined things but with so much power behind it [TS]
00:24:48 ◼ ► and so many options so many ways you can do that that it's really quite incredible [TS]
00:24:55 ◼ ► or ad read on anyone else's show that was shorter than like fifty minutes long. But go check it out. [TS]
00:25:01 ◼ ► Smile Software dot com slash A.T.V. Also if it helps. Smile is run by a really really good people. [TS]
00:25:08 ◼ ► They've been around forever making mac and I with software really and they make good stuff and they're good people. [TS]
00:25:14 ◼ ► So check em out smile Software dot com slash A.T.T. Thanks a lot for sponsor our show. [TS]
00:25:32 ◼ ► and there's other things as well about light transmission and how much energy it takes to manufacture [TS]
00:25:41 ◼ ► A lot of the stats given in this this is the interview with someone from grilling last always they tell you all the [TS]
00:25:51 ◼ ► but the materials that you are it's more difficult to change so yeah maybe maybe don't look for a sapphire screen on [TS]
00:26:00 ◼ ► I look for stuff our camera covers and touch anything he's touch anything he says adding a technical term Touch I.D. [TS]
00:26:08 ◼ ► Services. I just close the tab there is a think a book an official term for it but that's right. [TS]
00:26:14 ◼ ► What else do you want to talk about this book that came out about how Apple is haunted by the ghost of Steve Jobs I [TS]
00:26:20 ◼ ► really don't have much to say about it but I felt like we should at least briefly recognize that [TS]
00:26:25 ◼ ► and it sounds like everyone that I know that's read it says it's pretty bad. See that's the problem. [TS]
00:26:35 ◼ ► And I referenced by going on this rant I'm commenting on it and therefore being a hypocrite [TS]
00:26:40 ◼ ► The fact is you can say anything you want to anything you like the whole point of this book is to get mention [TS]
00:26:47 ◼ ► and become a controversy and become get discussed so that everyone goes out and reads it. That's the whole point. [TS]
00:26:53 ◼ ► And by lending credence to what is clearly from almost all the reviews was clearly a pretty terrible book based upon a [TS]
00:27:02 ◼ ► presupposed argument that really is not supported at all in the book and by the facts. [TS]
00:27:07 ◼ ► It just seems like it seems like this is a cheap trick to get attention and to get book sales [TS]
00:27:18 ◼ ► and by by even taking it as credible by even even the suggestion that we need to defend ourselves [TS]
00:27:34 ◼ ► and there are a couple different strains that are working against this one is that any book that ends up being critical [TS]
00:27:39 ◼ ► of apple if you read mostly Apple centric sites people who are Apple fans are going to say this book says bad things [TS]
00:27:44 ◼ ► about Apple is wrong because let me tell you why all the things they say are all wrong because I like apple I think was [TS]
00:27:49 ◼ ► good they're saying Apple's betting they're going to fight so that like that you expect to see that type of feedback. [TS]
00:27:55 ◼ ► The other thing is that so few people have any access at all to Apple. So the content. [TS]
00:28:00 ◼ ► The book is sure to be filled with like you know example earns make fun of like we've we found Tim Cook's childhood [TS]
00:28:10 ◼ ► You can't you can't talk to the people who know anything like you have to talk to people who've been out of who are [TS]
00:28:21 ◼ ► and third hand information in the first ten stuff you have is just barely relevant so it could be argued that even if [TS]
00:28:28 ◼ ► there was a case to be made that Apple was a haunted empire and there's all these problems [TS]
00:28:32 ◼ ► or whatever you wouldn't have access to enough people or facts to actually support your case and that's why [TS]
00:28:45 ◼ ► and that story people assume like you know this author you're Yukari Cain went in with that premise ahead of time like [TS]
00:28:53 ◼ ► I'm going to write a book about Apple's doomed and start from that premise understand supporting southward [TS]
00:29:06 ◼ ► and the few the few supporting facts she found a lot of young theme I can sort of tease out of all this information [TS]
00:29:11 ◼ ► mostly from second and third hand information and I need something that's like dramatic [TS]
00:29:16 ◼ ► and the two things you can have a dramatic are like you know the Steve Jobs to error of story which is Apple rising [TS]
00:29:24 ◼ ► and once they've risen from the ashes the only other dramatic story left is watching them fall so I don't like [TS]
00:29:31 ◼ ► everything who is familiar with the author before reading the book says that she was a good reporter [TS]
00:29:37 ◼ ► So I'm not entirely willing to go full cynical and said she was writing like a hatchet job [TS]
00:29:46 ◼ ► It could be that this is where the scant facts that she had led her but it just doesn't sound like it's a very. [TS]
00:29:52 ◼ ► I didn't read it so I can't say but it doesn't sound like a very well supported argument within the book [TS]
00:30:00 ◼ ► Yukari came which I have to spare and every time I said what I read in my head is where when you tiny [TS]
00:30:04 ◼ ► but neither one of you knows what that is and wailing Tani is not spelled in any way like Yukari cane [TS]
00:30:14 ◼ ► That's all I have to say about the book I think well I feel like you know that there's two things that I want to pick [TS]
00:30:25 ◼ ► Reporters span the spectrum for and even if she had only about every Vishy than the reporter for a long time [TS]
00:30:33 ◼ ► but the people said her reporting was good like her stories were good like they were in trashy stories they look at [TS]
00:30:40 ◼ ► and so on again as I'm going from other people so I guess I haven't I don't remember seeing a byline anywhere so I [TS]
00:30:46 ◼ ► and this comes up frequently in the text I mean a Imagine if you ever read a story like in The New York Times about [TS]
00:30:54 ◼ ► technology and you see like you these are like these are legitimate journalist supposedly writing about this [TS]
00:31:03 ◼ ► or you know somehow poorly done you know with this like the fact that she's a reporter doesn't mean anything to me [TS]
00:31:22 ◼ ► and even if some people think you're a good reporter that isn't necessarily mean you're qualified to write a book about [TS]
00:31:27 ◼ ► a tech company especially one as as secretive and controversial as this. Second of all who cares if it's a book. [TS]
00:31:35 ◼ ► If this was published as a series of blog posts that all ended with well by the way Steve Jobs goes looking over them [TS]
00:31:43 ◼ ► and every every post was trying to cram badly supported facts into a predefined narrative [TS]
00:31:50 ◼ ► and not doing a very good job of even doing that would we give any credibility to it would even be talking about it [TS]
00:32:00 ◼ ► We're talking about this because it's a book because culturally we like put we put value on books sell well. [TS]
00:32:06 ◼ ► A book is a big deal because you know that they had to spend months on it and some reporter [TS]
00:32:17 ◼ ► and there's there's tons of horrible books being published at the time the publisher publish this book because they [TS]
00:32:22 ◼ ► knew it would sell. They did their job properly in this case they knew this book would sell. [TS]
00:32:26 ◼ ► They didn't care whether it's going to be good or accurate they don't need to care about that. [TS]
00:32:30 ◼ ► All they need to care about is will this book sell and pretty clearly that they bet correctly on that. [TS]
00:32:37 ◼ ► and that doesn't mean they need to talk about it's really does it mean that the burden is on us to you know somehow [TS]
00:32:47 ◼ ► or that we need to you know ignore the fact is books are just as fallible as everything else [TS]
00:32:55 ◼ ► and everything else I think the jury's still out though on the on the theme of the book like ignoring that the content [TS]
00:33:01 ◼ ► of the book and how well the theme is supported this is the right time for a book about how Apple may be [TS]
00:33:06 ◼ ► and a client right because we don't know if it's in decline yet it's too soon to say ever [TS]
00:33:12 ◼ ► or whatever so if you're going to write a book about how Apple declined you better do it before they come out with [TS]
00:33:17 ◼ ► whatever Big Bang thing that could you go gangbusters and you also say say Apple never comes out with something [TS]
00:33:24 ◼ ► but the whole company on it's a flop if you read then write a book about Apple's decline you have to wait long the [TS]
00:33:29 ◼ ► other way for the post mortem because you don't seem you don't feel like you're insightful right so a book about how [TS]
00:33:34 ◼ ► you just paste in the title you just pitch haunted employer Apple after Steve Jobs you could pitch to a publisher this [TS]
00:33:39 ◼ ► is the right time for that book it just doesn't doesn't appear to be a good book based around that title right. [TS]
00:33:45 ◼ ► But that is like you said the publisher is going to say yes we would love a book like that we would love a good book [TS]
00:33:49 ◼ ► like that but if we can't get a good book like that will take whatever we get is now is a dime for that book [TS]
00:33:54 ◼ ► and if Apple does go down the tubes like people are going to be fighting this bug. [TS]
00:34:01 ◼ ► and maybe she didn't see it coming like doesn't seem like if you make an argument and you don't support it well [TS]
00:34:06 ◼ ► and you're sort of self-contradictory and get a bunch of things wrong and don't have good access. [TS]
00:34:10 ◼ ► Even if your theme turns out to be right later I don't think you get credit for prickly predicting anything [TS]
00:34:14 ◼ ► but I think the jury is out and we are all waiting for to see what Apple does next. [TS]
00:34:23 ◼ ► One of the things that I've wondered about myself after hearing all the hubbub about this book is am I capable actually [TS]
00:34:35 ◼ ► and perhaps I'm just filling in the blanks to make my argument with myself sound OK in and the way I wanted to [TS]
00:34:42 ◼ ► but I feel like the three of us have been fairly critical of Apple you know we've we've all meant to their services [TS]
00:34:53 ◼ ► or I believe we complained about how little storage is in the devices how little storage you get on in their services. [TS]
00:34:59 ◼ ► So I don't think that any of us are incapable of being upset with Apple or disagreeing with Apple [TS]
00:35:06 ◼ ► but I don't know it's something I I worry about that I don't I don't want to be just a shill [TS]
00:35:19 ◼ ► and I don't think we're there yet worrying about whether I'm capable of being critical something is not something that [TS]
00:35:24 ◼ ► I can market before mentioned about journalists and how you know the average is pretty low [TS]
00:35:36 ◼ ► It wasn't time to Time magazine there was something like The Times of London or something [TS]
00:35:40 ◼ ► and the story was reprinted in time but I weigh the whole big deal was like a Johnny I thing yeah. [TS]
00:35:45 ◼ ► Finally we have we have access to an interview with Johnny I view which it's true he so rarely does interviews [TS]
00:35:52 ◼ ► and he decides to do an interview not because it was a product induction or anything [TS]
00:35:55 ◼ ► but it's like hey here's Johnny Ive you want to talk to him and then you read the interview. [TS]
00:36:00 ◼ ► And it's clear that the person doing the interview doesn't really understand Apple Johnny Ive [TS]
00:36:04 ◼ ► or technology which is a shame because it's kind of like to authorize extreme situations a writ small. [TS]
00:36:15 ◼ ► and buy books I have just been ignoring it because I knew it was going to be no good like I don't. [TS]
00:36:19 ◼ ► Unlike the Walter Isaacson's book I don't have to read it because it's not like this is the one person who had to [TS]
00:36:23 ◼ ► expect exclusive access to someone who's now dead that is not the case we want to work [TS]
00:36:27 ◼ ► but I way this Johnny Ive interview is like the person who did the interview read but Leander was his last name. Cany. [TS]
00:36:35 ◼ ► Anyway here's Johnny Ive book also suffers from not having a ton of Access but he did the leg work [TS]
00:36:43 ◼ ► and he got as much access as you could to people's causes Johnny I was you couldn't it was a lot of new [TS]
00:36:47 ◼ ► and good information in there even if you could tell it's like boy he really didn't get as much time as I'm sure he [TS]
00:36:56 ◼ ► But the Johnny I book I would recommend reading even if you can totally tell that it suffers from a lack of access plus [TS]
00:37:00 ◼ ► not the author's fault but the interviewer read that book summarized at third grade book report style [TS]
00:37:06 ◼ ► and then asked Johnny Ive three dumb questions and wrote his answers and that's their super exclusive interview. [TS]
00:37:11 ◼ ► It's like seriously I mean maybe if you haven't read that book you might think oh this is some new information here is [TS]
00:37:18 ◼ ► all this from the book like I don't know if you got a cell but he's a summarizing the book [TS]
00:37:22 ◼ ► and then the questions he asked Johnny I would just like the same questions is answered a million times [TS]
00:37:26 ◼ ► and this was an interesting it was such a squandered opportunity not squandered again [TS]
00:37:31 ◼ ► and same with Walter Isaacson squandered it because Johnny I was a dead end because you've done other interviews [TS]
00:37:36 ◼ ► and he was not designated as the one you know person who's going to write the definitive autobiography of Johnny Ive [TS]
00:37:46 ◼ ► Well I love that the one thing that that grilled Johnny Ivon was what do you do with your old i Phones. [TS]
00:37:54 ◼ ► or what do you think is going to happen the hermetically sealed operating system whatever the hell that means I think [TS]
00:38:02 ◼ ► or they're built in obsolescence The thing is all they actually said Planned obsolescence. [TS]
00:38:10 ◼ ► I made a tweet about it like I just bought the thirty pin connector barely a decade ago [TS]
00:38:15 ◼ ► and now you're going to change something like what you've got to be kidding me of all it's clear that he just didn't [TS]
00:38:23 ◼ ► and found like non-replaceable batteries people complain about lightning connector [TS]
00:38:26 ◼ ► and it's like those are not the things seriously of all the things that Apple has done that are very Apple like to piss [TS]
00:38:36 ◼ ► or whatever the how long that thirty been connected with a route that is not one of the apple things to do. [TS]
00:38:40 ◼ ► Like that's not one of they do lots of things like that soldering the ramp feeling in the batteries [TS]
00:38:51 ◼ ► and that's an example of someone wrote a good post about it I wish I could find it where they were like trying to sell [TS]
00:39:00 ◼ ► When Apple gives you schools have access to one of their employees don't send dunces to interview them like they're so [TS]
00:39:06 ◼ ► hard to find somebody who knows something about Apple the sun I mean like how these people get picked in the press the [TS]
00:39:11 ◼ ► article is like trying to take pains to say I'm not saying you should sent me or like my friends [TS]
00:39:19 ◼ ► It can't be that hard to find somebody who knows something who is also a competent interview and send them. [TS]
00:39:24 ◼ ► Why is it always wise those people have no idea what they're talking about well you know maybe the answer is because [TS]
00:39:32 ◼ ► like maybe Apple agrees to do these kinds of interviews knowing that the questions are not going to really be anything [TS]
00:39:43 ◼ ► Interview like maybe Apple wouldn't agree to a published interview from you because they would know that you actually [TS]
00:39:49 ◼ ► ask good questions that would that would be you know difficult but also have a P.R. [TS]
00:39:53 ◼ ► Would try to pick the person but these days they seem to pick the publication like I don't think they pick this guy. [TS]
00:40:00 ◼ ► I think they offered up Johnny after the publication and the publication picked their reporter [TS]
00:40:04 ◼ ► and these people who they send the dunces their worst because they're like trying to press Johnny Ivan things that are [TS]
00:40:10 ◼ ► no you know a lot of controversies are never really worry about like you know replaceable batteries is not hot in the [TS]
00:40:16 ◼ ► news now like that's not what you want to Leno and Jony Ive about as your tough questions [TS]
00:40:19 ◼ ► or like hermetically sealed operating system like he doesn't even know what he's getting at [TS]
00:40:23 ◼ ► but like past controversies or things that like those aren't relevant that's not you know [TS]
00:40:29 ◼ ► and having Johnny Ive have to try to parse those questions and deflect like that's a waste of his time [TS]
00:40:35 ◼ ► and I don't think Apple would choose that either it's not like you're just getting softballs you've got to come in like [TS]
00:40:39 ◼ ► I'm going to be tough and asking the tough questions the tough questions are nonsensical [TS]
00:40:44 ◼ ► but like didn't we like is that controversy you know you are talking about ten again. [TS]
00:40:51 ◼ ► but it's the same type of thing as if they sent some cub reporter to lean on Johnny Ive of antenna gate. [TS]
00:41:07 ◼ ► but let it be known the news publications of the world that if you need someone to interview an Apple employee John's [TS]
00:41:13 ◼ ► or case is available you have to pay for his flight. I'm a terrible interior but I always know what I'm talking about. [TS]
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00:43:14 ◼ ► and the title of his post was why the big magazines hire hacks for big tech stories. [TS]
00:43:21 ◼ ► and a link to the end of Kenny's Johnny Ive book which like I said suffers from a lack of access [TS]
00:43:26 ◼ ► but I would still recommend people reading because there are there is information that was new to me in that book. [TS]
00:43:39 ◼ ► They don't release anything then else you can tell how much I care about video games and know about the stuff. [TS]
00:43:45 ◼ ► Did you see the suits at all in your isolation bubble Marco your jury duty isolation bubble. [TS]
00:43:50 ◼ ► No I saw I think I saw one tweet talking about it but it's like at long story my very quick time [TS]
00:44:00 ◼ ► And so there's actually not a lot of time to browse the internet that much. So yeah I always thought I was. [TS]
00:44:09 ◼ ► and I thought it was funny because it seems like the our headsets are are being worked on roughly every three to five [TS]
00:44:20 ◼ ► I know there's the the Oculus Rift the one I know that one that was getting some traction [TS]
00:44:25 ◼ ► but this is coming to a head because like it's not this is not a regular cycle type thing this is more like there's [TS]
00:44:33 ◼ ► and there was like the first briefings in this direction in the ninety's with these terrible things that you'd see at [TS]
00:44:40 ◼ ► but it went away for a long time because we just learned we're not that the stuff doesn't work. [TS]
00:44:45 ◼ ► And Oculus has been bringing it back in a big way and the rumors of Sony doing it. [TS]
00:44:51 ◼ ► We're also bringing it back with like you know there are I think there are Kickstarter originally it's like they're [TS]
00:45:00 ◼ ► and then John Carmack went to work for Oculus and left in software and that was a big deal. [TS]
00:45:04 ◼ ► Like oh my God Well he's going there he's no dummy he's not going to be like joining up in this company that really has [TS]
00:45:10 ◼ ► and people have tried it it tried the kids they've said it's interesting in a president have the second version of Get [TS]
00:45:17 ◼ ► when it went to technology actually looks like it's getting going that's what you get with the first one is like [TS]
00:45:24 ◼ ► and then the rumors of something too it's like OK well somebody looking at this isn't just a crazy research process [TS]
00:45:28 ◼ ► because Sony wants to you know sell things the use of your Playstation they don't want like some weird you know thing [TS]
00:45:37 ◼ ► See I haven't read a lot about the story or Mostly I read the headlines but I know the highlights of G.T.C. [TS]
00:45:49 ◼ ► and years they show all the various old prototypes and this is not a shipping product yet there's no pricing [TS]
00:45:54 ◼ ► or availability I don't think but they have announced their intention to have a shipping product so now I think that's. [TS]
00:46:03 ◼ ► and like it's the real deal as far as people are concerned people are actually playing games in it. [TS]
00:46:07 ◼ ► Weather would be amazing or fun or Revolution game or not it was going to be a real product [TS]
00:46:12 ◼ ► but what Sony does it it's like OK this is real real like I mean the connector for all you may say is like useless for [TS]
00:46:22 ◼ ► and I guess I shipped it at the connect they revise it they made a better they should they connect to is part of X. [TS]
00:46:29 ◼ ► and it seems like we are is very soon going to be a real thing with out there in the mass market [TS]
00:46:37 ◼ ► but I think this topic is fascinating mostly because of the technology problems that are involved in doing V.R. [TS]
00:46:45 ◼ ► and I've been reading about it for several years with the Michael address you now work in a valve who's also been [TS]
00:46:53 ◼ ► and he is a previous development partner of John Carmack they work together on Quake I believe in maybe something [TS]
00:47:03 ◼ ► Because you think of it as like you put this thing on your head and it's like a screen close to your face [TS]
00:47:07 ◼ ► and it shows like what you would see in a first person shooter and you're done right [TS]
00:47:10 ◼ ► and that is so far from the truth because if that's what it was we would have had it years ago that that doesn't work [TS]
00:47:17 ◼ ► and tons of reasons I put a huge number of links in here in the show notes will try to put them up in rough weeks on a [TS]
00:47:22 ◼ ► chronological order Marco if you don't have anything to read during jury duty I challenge you to get through even just [TS]
00:47:31 ◼ ► and by the time you're done reading it you'll be like man I don't want to implement to be our heads. [TS]
00:47:35 ◼ ► That sounds really hard like the problems are just so different when you have screens right up close to your face [TS]
00:47:42 ◼ ► when the movement of your head has to affect the changes in view because any sort of disconnect there is it just [TS]
00:47:51 ◼ ► when you turn your head you better be looking to your side you can have it like catch up later. [TS]
00:48:00 ◼ ► Things with screens that are shot in your head of course has to be two different screens because you're right I see [TS]
00:48:08 ◼ ► I would really love to try something like this but I have not had an opportunity to try it. [TS]
00:48:13 ◼ ► But it's Sony comes out with one I will probably buy a Play Station four and buy one of these crazy things [TS]
00:48:18 ◼ ► and sit in my living room with like a crazy person with something on my head just to see what this is like you have to [TS]
00:48:29 ◼ ► Did you have a Virtual Boy when those were thing I genuinely have done the same as the other stationary [TS]
00:48:37 ◼ ► Why do you know if that was during the era in which you could have bought it for yourself [TS]
00:48:43 ◼ ► If you're just a little old or very old and I wouldn't buy the for myself you know I felt I was a dud. [TS]
00:48:57 ◼ ► This was early ninety's we were living gosh we're either living in Illinois or in Austin Texas [TS]
00:49:09 ◼ ► and I put a link in the Channel put in the show notes and it was like this God awful Early's nine early ninety's V.R. [TS]
00:49:16 ◼ ► Where you would like hold something and he was like a first person shooter sort of thing where you hold something [TS]
00:49:24 ◼ ► But there could have been that many of these things because it was it was like the same like the demo that was [TS]
00:49:29 ◼ ► and all it did a little science centers and everything in one thousand nine hundred three. [TS]
00:49:33 ◼ ► And so I've really I had a birthday party there where we basically played like a not bloody death match game against [TS]
00:49:44 ◼ ► but I remember trying to put this massive helmet on my head in barely being able to lift my damned thing what you'd [TS]
00:50:08 ◼ ► It felt like you know when you have someone who's like disabled and in a wheelchair in some way [TS]
00:50:13 ◼ ► and they can't they can't use their limbs so they have lots of controls for their head because they do have net control [TS]
00:50:19 ◼ ► when it feels like you're using your head to operate the controls of first person shooter that does not feel like you [TS]
00:50:25 ◼ ► are looking around in a virtual world because the lag was so horrendous they would just be like it would be like you [TS]
00:50:30 ◼ ► know you'd be sending sending instructions via telegram to another room who would then move the mouse on your first [TS]
00:50:40 ◼ ► but if so some of the if you read all these articles are the technical challenges some of them are actually interesting [TS]
00:50:45 ◼ ► as they are related to television challenges well like they're using obviously L.C.D. [TS]
00:50:49 ◼ ► Screens upon your eyeballs because you not have a C.R.T. There although the really cool steampunk kind of way. [TS]
00:50:55 ◼ ► Is what we mostly do with them unlike our displays and i just because they display an image [TS]
00:51:00 ◼ ► and they're lit up all the time essentially and you change the image in the pixels change from one thing to another [TS]
00:51:05 ◼ ► but you know during the time in between the images changing the old images there the whole time [TS]
00:51:12 ◼ ► and that turned out to be very terrible for things where you turn your head as you start turn your head [TS]
00:51:17 ◼ ► and say the refresh rate is like sixty frames a second for one sixteenth of a second the pictured hasn't changed. [TS]
00:51:26 ◼ ► and that's not the way it works in the real world the sooner you start moving your head what you see in front of you [TS]
00:51:33 ◼ ► and so one of the ones where the way they've been commenting this is with low persistence images where they will blink [TS]
00:51:40 ◼ ► the image on to the screen for the smallest time possible then have the screen be black for the most of that six eleven [TS]
00:51:50 ◼ ► and aggressive that's you know that's how I see Artie's work but I don't like Sunbeam scanning up [TS]
00:51:55 ◼ ► and down he does so fast you can see the scanning but it turns out that makes a big difference. [TS]
00:52:04 ◼ ► and I have the motion learn everything to say let's strobe the backlight really fast so it's black in between frames [TS]
00:52:10 ◼ ► like because it's not that people felt unnatural the images there are just different technologies we're just used to [TS]
00:52:22 ◼ ► and with easier headsets turned out to be better for perception to show an image really bright image one frame of that [TS]
00:52:34 ◼ ► and that turned out to be better because the way our visual system works is not like it really is our goal it is not [TS]
00:52:42 ◼ ► and sense approach to our brain our visual system is all screwed up and lots of stuff happens in the brain [TS]
00:52:47 ◼ ► and it is not as straightforward as you think it is that you have to do all these hacks [TS]
00:52:50 ◼ ► and tricks to work with the quirks of our visual system to make something that doesn't make people sick. [TS]
00:52:57 ◼ ► and that's what I'm doing that's why people are excited about is like they're actually starting to get those hacks [TS]
00:53:03 ◼ ► right I mean once they figured out people in hindsight to be like oh you just go do X. Y. and Z. [TS]
00:53:09 ◼ ► when I think about this I worry a little bit about Sony like the UK US guys have great you know John Karr. [TS]
00:53:17 ◼ ► And Sony are like maybe Sony just wants to be kind of in the ME TO club and it is going to take two screens [TS]
00:53:32 ◼ ► but one of the stories on polygon I read today I agreed with I think was by Ben to chair was saying that. [TS]
00:53:37 ◼ ► Oculus once the Sony v I think to be awesome to because they don't want the Sony of your thing to come out everyone to [TS]
00:53:42 ◼ ► try it to suck in the never on the go over our socks and then Oculus comes out no like now working [TS]
00:53:49 ◼ ► Sucks now I got us once we are to be a real thing and so Sony's thinking up would be bad but so far it seems like Sony. [TS]
00:54:03 ◼ ► or To a place they should be to scream shoving from a ribald in calling it a day at work I've been doing the hard work [TS]
00:54:11 ◼ ► I'm calling today that would be cool if they would also saw the persistence problems low persistence images [TS]
00:54:20 ◼ ► Problem solved because you had a problem though like you know neck pain that was one of the points I made of the Sony [TS]
00:54:27 ◼ ► want to Sony highlight of the fact that their heads that does not rest on your nose or like doesn't rest on your nose [TS]
00:54:34 ◼ ► or maybe the inset also on your forehead like this that's one of the sticking things if you want to put this. [TS]
00:54:38 ◼ ► but they're heavy enough they're heavier than glasses for you know if they rest on your nose [TS]
00:54:42 ◼ ► and use them for a while it'll make like your neck in your in the bridge of your nose hurt after a while [TS]
00:54:46 ◼ ► and so the Sony one uses kind of like a sort of a a ring around your head kind of like a visor type cap [TS]
00:54:52 ◼ ► and it hangs the picture screens down in front your eyes so it shows that they are thinking about the practical real [TS]
00:54:58 ◼ ► world problems are also they're open on the bottom so they don't like fog up inside if you get all sweaty cool this is [TS]
00:55:05 ◼ ► probably the opposite of cool but very excited to try to answer the question a chair [TS]
00:55:09 ◼ ► and like I said No I have not tried Oculus Rift any version I haven't tried to sue anyone either. [TS]
00:55:17 ◼ ► And they also know I wish there was an incident going on. This is actually a slow week. [TS]
00:55:24 ◼ ► I put good health problem in there as a valid title to I did not know enough about that to comment [TS]
00:55:36 ◼ ► but I just feel like there's no facts in the in the press at the moment if you could go to the blog fear or whatever [TS]
00:55:50 ◼ ► And speaking of things that are controversial things when you go down I mean a controversial supporters words [TS]
00:55:56 ◼ ► but speaking of things I'm not sure I want to touch because it's going to piss off the world of matter HOW. [TS]
00:56:00 ◼ ► Currently we handle it it's you know whether or not men in our field treat women poorly I think the answer is yes [TS]
00:56:12 ◼ ► Well I don't I don't think anything about the specific case that it's not like me to go in depth about the details of [TS]
00:56:25 ◼ ► when something happens related to it in you know basically in our own circles of the blogs [TS]
00:56:30 ◼ ► and Twitter feeds theory read then you know like them are just never going to talk about it as if it remains one of the [TS]
00:56:37 ◼ ► and come through with that which is never say anything about it we just feel like one of ignore it until it goes away [TS]
00:56:41 ◼ ► or blows over or don't want to follow it and I just don't feel like I Things will get better [TS]
00:56:59 ◼ ► In this specific case I went something like this comes up there's always the well you know all we've got is a lumber is [TS]
00:57:07 ◼ ► inside the prison side you know one person's word against another or people take sides and Web sites [TS]
00:57:15 ◼ ► and one Web site is on the side of the side in the whole web site start fighting with each other [TS]
00:57:22 ◼ ► And even without going into details though like one of the things that comes up in a lot of cases including one that [TS]
00:57:30 ◼ ► and you know what I'm referring to that people like to take the rules that apply in Marco's jury duty [TS]
00:57:38 ◼ ► and say well if there's any reasonable doubt if we can't convict you know what I mean like Beyond has to be beyond a [TS]
00:57:50 ◼ ► and that's true in the law because there is consequences in law like you go to jail. [TS]
00:57:54 ◼ ► So you know the for criminal court cases the bar is high because we don't want to send people to. [TS]
00:58:07 ◼ ► So I think we should be more free to have an opinion based on you know just whatever other criteria we think are [TS]
00:58:15 ◼ ► reasonable because we're not saying we're sure we're not saying this person should go to jail [TS]
00:58:18 ◼ ► or whatever we're just saying like if I had to put money on it like if you think about that for the Vegas odds you know [TS]
00:58:28 ◼ ► and forth the Vegas odds on in this type of situation where a woman feels wrong by an employer the Vegas odds are she [TS]
00:58:40 ◼ ► Like if I had to put money on it I would say that the money is on the woman telling her first person account of having [TS]
00:58:47 ◼ ► a bad experience of work is telling the truth because that's almost always how it is [TS]
00:58:50 ◼ ► and it doesn't mean like oh that's what you just convict them all I that's not the criteria you can use to actually [TS]
00:59:02 ◼ ► and people are even afraid to make that assertion because they're like well you don't know [TS]
00:59:07 ◼ ► but I think it's fine to kind of like get a feel for how you think things are going to turn out because you're not [TS]
00:59:14 ◼ ► saying for sure you're not condemning anybody you're not pointing a finger at some specific person to get out [TS]
00:59:18 ◼ ► and saying they're a bad person just saying from a distance I feel like when this thing comes out [TS]
00:59:27 ◼ ► when the truth finally comes out never in kind of agreed by consensus of what the truth is what will come out is that [TS]
00:59:32 ◼ ► the woman was wrong because it just happened so often. But that's that's the safe bet. [TS]
00:59:38 ◼ ► And the fact that we can't even say that without saying well you're just you're prejudiced against Get out now [TS]
00:59:45 ◼ ► It's like it just doesn't seem like that's just like another stopgap against you know if you say anything you need to [TS]
00:59:52 ◼ ► have a hundred percent proof otherwise you're a bad person and it's just he said he said versus she said [TS]
01:00:02 ◼ ► People think it's OK to have a reasonable expectation of how it might turn out because you're not you know you're not [TS]
01:00:17 ◼ ► In its You're right in saying that it we should talk about it I think the thing that scares me is I mean I want to [TS]
01:00:26 ◼ ► and given that our audience all of whose flesh whom I love very dearly tends to be a bunch of Pete and [TS]
01:00:34 ◼ ► and God forbid I make one mistake. God forbid I say one thing incorrect isn't it. We figure that out. [TS]
01:00:41 ◼ ► Well there you go. Who's going to be figured out who started the P.T. Thing is something Gruber ism. [TS]
01:00:50 ◼ ► Yeah well either way there is no better word to mispronounce in the was language than that you know so perfect. [TS]
01:00:56 ◼ ► Anyway so I'm not saying we shouldn't talk about it I just I want to make sure that that I if not all of us handle it [TS]
01:01:06 ◼ ► But you shouldn't you shouldn't be because people who condemn people who are speaking like you know every one misspeaks [TS]
01:01:11 ◼ ► we do it all the time and if you misspeak on a sensitive subject it's no more intentional than [TS]
01:01:19 ◼ ► or technology is because like the top of the can so incredibly charge that you're worried if you accidentally say the [TS]
01:01:28 ◼ ► and that shouldn't we all make honest mistakes we all misspeak it happens like it's how you react to that like because [TS]
01:01:36 ◼ ► and that's you know where you wouldn't get all defensive if you misspoke about like the price of a product [TS]
01:01:40 ◼ ► or something on a you know on a podcast. Sure but no I it's interesting because I so take my company for example. [TS]
01:01:50 ◼ ► We have I don't know maybe ten developers I would say roughly. And of all of them we have. [TS]
01:02:00 ◼ ► One young lady that is a tester and is part of our same group been in the org chart. [TS]
01:02:08 ◼ ► But I don't believe we have any developers and that's really it's really not a good thing really bums me out [TS]
01:02:16 ◼ ► and I don't think it's deliberate on any of our parts were fairly progressive company. [TS]
01:02:21 ◼ ► I think we would certainly love to have more women developers I mean being fifty fifty [TS]
01:02:30 ◼ ► But as it turns out our particular group is almost exclusively a buncha doods and I wish that wasn't the case [TS]
01:02:37 ◼ ► and I have not worked with very many women developers in my entire career which is around about ten years now [TS]
01:02:48 ◼ ► But it's I mean even in school I barely saw any women engineers and I don't know why that is. [TS]
01:03:04 ◼ ► and so the things that what is a gene McDonald that is doing at camp I totally got that wrong you know what I'm talking [TS]
01:03:13 ◼ ► about Afghan for girls right. OK OK I had to get that right. I think that's awesome. [TS]
01:03:17 ◼ ► And I'm I'm really stoked and hopeful that that really makes a difference and I think it will. [TS]
01:03:28 ◼ ► I think the number might be zero I went to school with a few although the ratio there was pretty terrible as well. [TS]
01:03:35 ◼ ► You know thinking back I'm pretty sure I've never worked with him out of Alper And that's I mean that's you know this [TS]
01:03:41 ◼ ► is one of the reasons why I don't usually talk about controversy like this that that always seem to come up in our in [TS]
01:03:49 ◼ ► our tech roll recently is because I completely agree that it is a problem but I really don't know how to fix it. [TS]
01:04:00 ◼ ► You know be conscientious in this in the decisions I make as you know in a linear past the Academy I've never even been [TS]
01:04:08 ◼ ► in a position where I was able to hire somebody. I've never made a hiring decision before even a tumbler. [TS]
01:04:15 ◼ ► So I've I think that's one of the areas obviously where where you could focus a lot on that is hiring [TS]
01:04:22 ◼ ► and then if you're if you're a boss over any people if your supervisor then you know that's relevant there as well. [TS]
01:04:31 ◼ ► The issue that well or I don't know you know what it would take to fix it. I do agree K.C. [TS]
01:04:37 ◼ ► That I have been in a position where I was at least able to make you know look over and [TS]
01:04:48 ◼ ► and thinking back I don't think there was even ever a case where a woman even applied to the point where I was even [TS]
01:04:59 ◼ ► But my sample size there is very very small I've only you know I was only involved in a handful of those kind of things. [TS]
01:05:04 ◼ ► But this is definitely there's definitely problems in our industry with both the hiring of women [TS]
01:05:11 ◼ ► and then the treatment of them once they get it what once they get hired and the treatment of women in. [TS]
01:05:17 ◼ ► and I'm going to the tech industry this is a you know a problem culturally worldwide health in those places which is [TS]
01:05:24 ◼ ► but I don't know how to solve that problem besides the limited bit I can do from where I am as far as I know which is [TS]
01:05:34 ◼ ► you know when things got canned for girls come around I can try support those things. [TS]
01:05:38 ◼ ► And if I'm ever given a chance to make a hiring decision then you know to ignore gender when I make that decision. [TS]
01:05:55 ◼ ► You know they went after him for girls came out it got a lot of support because I think a lot of people didn't know. [TS]
01:06:00 ◼ ► What to do and that was something that was very clearly this this could help in a small latest could help. [TS]
01:06:09 ◼ ► I would like to say I would like to have more opportunities for people who know more about this [TS]
01:06:12 ◼ ► and who are better suited to to even know how to address these kind of things which I am you know some of it was [TS]
01:06:19 ◼ ► middling not. I would love to know what else you know men who are programmers like us. [TS]
01:06:32 ◼ ► Here's something I've heard from people who have worked with I have worked with a lot of women and [TS]
01:06:39 ◼ ► and Don't you know have been like well I work with women and everything seems to be fine here [TS]
01:06:49 ◼ ► And the idea there is if you are a nice person and if and if you hang out with other nice people. [TS]
01:06:55 ◼ ► If someone is being a jerk somewhere you might not see that because there's the whole you know the whole culture the [TS]
01:07:00 ◼ ► women try it you know keep their heads down and not make a big fuss about these things [TS]
01:07:04 ◼ ► and so it could very well be that you are working in a company with a bunch of women who you treat perfectly fine [TS]
01:07:10 ◼ ► but who nevertheless get terrible treatment from others and just don't say anything about it [TS]
01:07:13 ◼ ► and you're not aware of that because they don't say anything about it it doesn't apply to any of us. [TS]
01:07:18 ◼ ► but for you to we're not working with a lot of women that's not going to come up and [TS]
01:07:23 ◼ ► when I think about things we can do it's like even if you're not in the situation if you just read enough about it to [TS]
01:07:29 ◼ ► know to know what the path ologies are can know like yesterday is possible for you a nice person to be working [TS]
01:07:34 ◼ ► alongside women who are being terribly three do not know it because they don't feel confident [TS]
01:07:41 ◼ ► And so if you're even a little like oh well you could support women who have these problems [TS]
01:07:44 ◼ ► or whatever like you can support them if you don't know it's happening so that's like step one be aware of what you [TS]
01:07:49 ◼ ► might not even know like you might not even know these things are happening and this is not. [TS]
01:07:52 ◼ ► But by the way I think where they get help thing this is a specific case with a Jeff with a possible gender slant [TS]
01:08:00 ◼ ► There everywhere and those I have experienced and dirty bosses can be jerks there tend to be jerks to everybody [TS]
01:08:06 ◼ ► and it's a similar type of situation where maybe someone is getting sort of you know harassed [TS]
01:08:10 ◼ ► or emotionally abused by their boss by their boss the spouse by anybody else regardless of what gender they are. [TS]
01:08:21 ◼ ► and women who like if someone is you know treating them very badly in a job they don't want to say they look like [TS]
01:08:27 ◼ ► they're weak or they're they don't feel like they don't have a way out and you may be working alongside them [TS]
01:08:31 ◼ ► That's another reason I believe these things because toxic work relationships between you know you know superior [TS]
01:08:38 ◼ ► and subordinate work relationships that are toxic are just everywhere like and I have experienced those [TS]
01:08:42 ◼ ► and I've seen them first hand second hand and heard about them from others they're worse when gender is involved. [TS]
01:08:48 ◼ ► But even if gender is not involved like it happened so much like just you know if that's the pattern of you know give [TS]
01:08:55 ◼ ► somebody a little bit of power and have them have any sort of imbalance and I started using that power [TS]
01:09:00 ◼ ► and taking it out on the people below them and just so many bad things happen in companies because of that [TS]
01:09:06 ◼ ► and if you're not aware of it really it's not happening to you you might not see it [TS]
01:09:10 ◼ ► and so that I think would be like the first step that any of us can take is be aware that this could be a thing that's [TS]
01:09:18 ◼ ► but I guess I guess being aware is the first step in the cycle when I was you know supporting people [TS]
01:09:25 ◼ ► and I guess the third is don't do that work for companies like that like Don't start a company like that don't be a [TS]
01:09:31 ◼ ► company like don't be a boss like that but also don't work for companies like that is the problem is [TS]
01:09:36 ◼ ► when like you know even if all these things are true that get have a lot of good people who work there [TS]
01:09:41 ◼ ► and they like working a good hub and maybe some of them are even tenderly aware of this thing gets like. [TS]
01:09:46 ◼ ► But I like my job and I don't want to realize that I work for a bunch of jerks. If I quit would that change it. [TS]
01:09:53 ◼ ► Do we collectively all go up and say we know somebody is being a jerk to somebody else [TS]
01:10:00 ◼ ► The worst thing that could happen here was simple it is going to keep their head down [TS]
01:10:02 ◼ ► and try not to think about it it doesn't really affect them maybe it's not as bad as it seems to be [TS]
01:10:07 ◼ ► and that's the worst thing that can happen I just you know maintains the status quo the status quo is crappy for a lot [TS]
01:10:11 ◼ ► of people do you work with a lot of women developers Currently I do surprisingly most of my past jobs have. [TS]
01:10:18 ◼ ► Well I mean The first started I worked at like I was the only programmer and I was male. [TS]
01:10:25 ◼ ► and we hired another programmer who was female so like that I guess pretty good arrangers there a couple of other jobs [TS]
01:10:30 ◼ ► have been more like lopsided where you expect zero women programmers like one of my current job I don't think it's [TS]
01:10:42 ◼ ► And and the reason I brought this up about not knowing is like as far as I'm aware. [TS]
01:10:48 ◼ ► Like they're treated well like but that doesn't mean this is something bad not having that I don't know about [TS]
01:10:54 ◼ ► And even like we can all we all find ourselves anyone who is our age we'll find ourselves accidentally doing [TS]
01:11:00 ◼ ► or saying something sexist because like Essentially that's how we were raised that's the culture that we were raised in [TS]
01:11:05 ◼ ► and it's a struggle every day to try to untrain yourself from these terrible things that were you know these [TS]
01:11:19 ◼ ► and female developers as far as I'm concerned as far as it seems to be all my coworkers concerned are not treated any [TS]
01:11:25 ◼ ► differently than any other developer but there could be bad things happening somewhere that I don't know [TS]
01:11:34 ◼ ► but you know I worry about it sometimes because I read I mean maybe it's like you know going to Web empty [TS]
01:11:39 ◼ ► and finding other things can't to read all the stories you like make this happen in my company [TS]
01:11:43 ◼ ► and I guess that I have been a companies where bosses have been jerks like all you know gender not involved at all that [TS]
01:11:47 ◼ ► just terrible terrible situations between people and groups of people and I also don't see that in my current child [TS]
01:12:00 ◼ ► Sitting here thinking to myself you know let's suppose that I start working with a female developer [TS]
01:12:10 ◼ ► and I don't think that that's technically justified in my sight and I can wear a coat isn't good enough [TS]
01:12:15 ◼ ► or something like that and I think that that's incorrect that our code is fine like do I have the cajones to say dude [TS]
01:12:22 ◼ ► or mortgage abortive transitions are they going to. That was intentional that time other than take whatever. [TS]
01:12:39 ◼ ► and I was through he was saying if he had the sentiment in Florida it's a fair point [TS]
01:12:44 ◼ ► but yeah you know what I mean like what I have what I have the gumption to say dude or lady [TS]
01:12:50 ◼ ► or whoever boss person is you know that's not cool that's not right I don't know that I would [TS]
01:12:55 ◼ ► and I'm not proud of that I'm not I'm not saying that because I'm excited about it I just I don't I'm very [TS]
01:13:15 ◼ ► and so like people you know well meaning people are paralyzed by the fear that they're going to do something wrong [TS]
01:13:22 ◼ ► But like doing nothing is almost worse so like you need leeway on all sides like ever involved has to give everyone the [TS]
01:13:33 ◼ ► and I mean it's you know what at the back the old thing is judging people by their you know judging yourself by your [TS]
01:13:38 ◼ ► motivations by other people by their actions well they would see your actions and condemn you for it me [TS]
01:13:46 ◼ ► and so the need understanding all around to make this situation go better like not to condemn people who are trying to [TS]
01:13:52 ◼ ► do the right thing but merely to explain to them how what they could have done differently or whatever [TS]
01:14:02 ◼ ► and made it seem like I guess because myself made the problem worse they should explain that to you that you know what [TS]
01:14:07 ◼ ► you did made me feel like I can stand up for myself and diminish me in the eyes of my peers [TS]
01:14:12 ◼ ► and I'm going to hate him because it's clear that what you're trying to do is helping. [TS]
01:14:15 ◼ ► Like that's that goes around in circles like just like a family comment threads and I think that it goes around [TS]
01:14:21 ◼ ► and around like a lot of times it's it's people who are on the same side fighting with each other about how best to [TS]
01:14:28 ◼ ► And that's that's one of the reasons why I don't usually join in discussions because I have enough people sniping me [TS]
01:14:37 ◼ ► from every possible angle of everything I write the last thing I need is to enter discussion on a topic where it is so [TS]
01:14:44 ◼ ► hot button and there's and you write like if you even in a discussion trying to defend women or or you know or [TS]
01:14:54 ◼ ► or you know condemn sexism even in a discussion like that it's so easy to find it tough to find flaws in that that [TS]
01:15:07 ◼ ► And if you you know if you enter this this extremely contentious discussion you are taking a big risk specially if you [TS]
01:15:22 ◼ ► And so it's to me it's not worth the risk of of entering a discussion where I am so intimidated to add anything to the [TS]
01:15:36 ◼ ► and there's a whole lot of downside because not only do not only am I probably not really going to help anybody [TS]
01:15:51 ◼ ► but one of the reasons you're probably going to unintentionally parables because like I said we all have these gender [TS]
01:16:00 ◼ ► They're going to come out unintentionally in what you write and people are going to call you on it [TS]
01:16:07 ◼ ► It's difficult to react to it in the right way which again may be reason you just choose not to write about it which is [TS]
01:16:13 ◼ ► But like sometimes I feel like at a certain point like if everybody does that if everybody's like well I know I have [TS]
01:16:19 ◼ ► many internal biases and if I try to speak about in any way those biases will come out and people will call me on [TS]
01:16:25 ◼ ► and I'll have difficulty reacting in a nice way there for all say nothing if everybody did that they just just [TS]
01:16:32 ◼ ► And so like some people kind of have a fall on your sword to just you know be willing to if that's something you feel [TS]
01:16:38 ◼ ► like you want to do and the second thing is by doing that by trying to say anything like we're trying to now. [TS]
01:16:51 ◼ ► Part of the process of people yelling at you about that is making you more aware of them [TS]
01:16:57 ◼ ► and you kind of like like you would hope you would hope that you'd be improving yourself like you would be beating down [TS]
01:17:03 ◼ ► and I think even though I tend not to participate in these things I don't tweet about them really I don't participate [TS]
01:17:09 ◼ ► and I think just even just reading them man made me much more aware of the things that I do or think or say [TS]
01:17:23 ◼ ► or otherwise i just by reading about them like reading basically reading other people getting getting attacked for the [TS]
01:17:31 ◼ ► and what I'm coming away with is I might have said that same thing and I would have been just as wrong [TS]
01:17:38 ◼ ► and like I said that's I think that's a growing experience I think that's one thing I get out of this that might be [TS]
01:17:43 ◼ ► good is like exposure to this the masses being exposed to this even though the masses are not participating just like [TS]
01:17:49 ◼ ► The few people are yelling each other because baiting being exposed to this this debate online even the terrible form [TS]
01:18:12 ◼ ► You know something that Marco said a minute ago kind of struck me you said you were intimidated to join the discussion [TS]
01:18:20 ◼ ► and I think that was a verbatim quote but it's not the spirit and I feel the same way completely but I can't help [TS]
01:18:27 ◼ ► but sit here and think well what kind of a was in my where I'm intimidated to join the discussion. [TS]
01:18:33 ◼ ► I can't imagine how intimidated I would be to be the recipient of this kind of B.S. [TS]
01:18:40 ◼ ► and I'm being I completely agree like I'm a little uncomfortable about talking about this because I don't want to come [TS]
01:18:50 ◼ ► And yet at the same time I'm getting so worked up over what is really an innocuous conversation in the grand scheme of [TS]
01:18:57 ◼ ► things I cannot fathom how uncomfortable I would be if my boss treated me like crap simply because I'm a dude. [TS]
01:19:12 ◼ ► Thanks a lot to our three sponsors this way. And is that all that any better way than that. I guess not all right. [TS]
01:19:20 ◼ ► They thought what responses this week Rahm objects see sharp smile and Squarespace and we will see you next week. [TS]
01:20:33 ◼ ► but you had said you know you saw some of your own wrongs in some of the things you read Are there any examples you're [TS]
01:20:46 ◼ ► but I can think of a specific example of where I know I'm wrong about something or or wherever read something lately [TS]
01:20:55 ◼ ► There any Tampa's you can think of where you've had that kind of reaction that you're willing to share. [TS]
01:20:59 ◼ ► Well the you wanted like terminology all of the words that we grew up using that are it's like oh it's political [TS]
01:21:04 ◼ ► correctness now they're insulting like they're insulting to use those like I'm not going to you know like the anti [TS]
01:21:10 ◼ ► homosexual slurs that we also have when we were kids when we didn't even know what that meant. [TS]
01:21:15 ◼ ► And you will see people defending their their ability to say that they like Bush but I don't mean it that way. [TS]
01:21:21 ◼ ► But like that's one of those things that once you learn how offensive it is your reaction shouldn't be like to double [TS]
01:21:27 ◼ ► down and be like nope I'm going to keep saying it because I know I'm not on the phobic [TS]
01:21:33 ◼ ► That's not that's not a mature and appropriate response and the same applies to women. [TS]
01:21:38 ◼ ► I mean I wonder if anyone will call you out for a friend to the woman you were with a young lady because that's [TS]
01:21:47 ◼ ► or like you know like how God would say I don't even think of it as he here it is. [TS]
01:21:52 ◼ ► That's a perfect one because I'm trying to think of what what in my screwed up brain is the least offensive [TS]
01:22:00 ◼ ► Right and and like and it's because it's just because what we were conditioned to do growing up [TS]
01:22:15 ◼ ► and seeing other people called on it may make you think I say that a lot too don't I [TS]
01:22:20 ◼ ► and I should think I should think of something else that I can substitute for that. [TS]
01:22:23 ◼ ► Or you know a lot of that you see on line is people like all the political correctness police in these certain words [TS]
01:22:29 ◼ ► that you can't say or whatever and then obviously you can take a name to exclaim and become ridiculous [TS]
01:22:34 ◼ ► and call everybody gyno Americans instead of women because women is insulting to that as men in the name like you know [TS]
01:22:43 ◼ ► but the thing is like people whatever people say like automatically because their parents said it because they said it [TS]
01:22:51 ◼ ► and they'll be like nope I got to be able to say that forever I mean I know how I mean it. [TS]
01:22:59 ◼ ► or whatever they're for you trying to make me not say that is impairing my freedom [TS]
01:23:03 ◼ ► and it's political correctness gone awry and it's like you know that's that's not a fight worth having. [TS]
01:23:09 ◼ ► That is you're on the wrong side of that it just doesn't it doesn't matter how you mean it you're working it you're [TS]
01:23:16 ◼ ► working in the larger context here you know if everybody calls the whim of the office girls [TS]
01:23:23 ◼ ► and you don't mean in a bad way to Israel I don't like that thing is it has an unconscious effect on you because if you [TS]
01:23:28 ◼ ► can still refer to them as girls even though if you think you don't mean it will shape the way you think about them. [TS]
01:23:33 ◼ ► There are you know they are younger they are children of the men of the office run things [TS]
01:23:38 ◼ ► and the girls in the office are just you know like it will shape your thinking just by saying the words. [TS]
01:23:42 ◼ ► and so it's worth actually making a concerted effort to change the way you speak about it because it will change the [TS]
01:23:49 ◼ ► way you think about it not because someone's making you not because they're taking away your freedom [TS]
01:24:00 ◼ ► And you can keep going on to farther and farther reaches with not just not his gender issues but homosexuality [TS]
01:24:12 ◼ ► and all is there something we're doing that we could do better that is hurting these marginalized groups. [TS]
01:24:17 ◼ ► So what was the what would you say was the proper term that I should have used women. Fair enough. [TS]
01:24:23 ◼ ► That's a fair answer I don't know I for some reason I feel like but you can feel like you shouldn't. [TS]
01:24:30 ◼ ► but like this is one of those cases where the macro just comes out of your head and like it [TS]
01:24:35 ◼ ► and the fact that you are second guessing yourself like that so you get into the past like oh what am I supposed to say [TS]
01:24:40 ◼ ► because you're just you know the pet you're in Granger's used to saying something else takes actual concerted effort to [TS]
01:24:45 ◼ ► stop saying one thing and say something different and you're going to slip up and like you just. [TS]
01:24:49 ◼ ► But it's like that's not a reason just to double down so I'll never try to train myself at all on the same thing [TS]
01:24:57 ◼ ► I mean that's that's I think what makes it so hard is because people who mean perfectly well can so easily say [TS]
01:25:07 ◼ ► something or think of something in a way that really isn't you know perfectly fine [TS]
01:25:29 ◼ ► Most most of the comments on the article were about you know of course I would write this because this is John Gruber's [TS]
01:25:36 ◼ ► app and you know of course athletes all of Africa and all you gotta do is write an app and you charge five dollars [TS]
01:25:44 ◼ ► You know that with most of my feedback which of course is easy to disregard but I got I got I think one [TS]
01:25:50 ◼ ► or two comments about how the word balls was kind of unintentionally sexist because that's will only men have boy. [TS]
01:26:00 ◼ ► All you know and that made me think. I didn't at the time think it was worth rewriting the whole article. [TS]
01:26:09 ◼ ► Let's not use the word balls but it definitely made me stop using it like that in the future. [TS]
01:26:16 ◼ ► I'll say it like when you say unintentionally sexist unintentional and that sexism [TS]
01:26:23 ◼ ► and of course is a common saying that we all know that we've probably been using our lives right [TS]
01:26:31 ◼ ► but the person who first came up with that term you can be damn sure that sexism was one hundred percent part of that. [TS]
01:26:35 ◼ ► They're trying to say men are tough men are brave men do things that are brave so it takes balls it takes This is [TS]
01:26:41 ◼ ► organised this organ in male's bodies that women don't have that really had nothing to do with toughness at all [TS]
01:26:48 ◼ ► and women don't women are wimpy that like it is one hundred percent a sexist term. [TS]
01:26:52 ◼ ► But it's so ingrained in the culture that a certain point it just loses all that sexism [TS]
01:26:58 ◼ ► But that part of the background noise is yes it takes balls to whatever and you see women co-opting it [TS]
01:27:06 ◼ ► but what I was think about that it's like All right so I didn't mean it that way but it totally does mean that [TS]
01:27:17 ◼ ► and I was a few others like you know maybe I'm not going to go back and rewrite the thing [TS]
01:27:27 ◼ ► I guess again you know just participate in these things if you think I'd comment on it I saw people those comments I [TS]
01:27:34 ◼ ► when I find myself having to say that like you know it if it will make you think well it's no skin off my back to use a [TS]
01:27:41 ◼ ► different term there's plenty of other cliches in analogies and words that I can use that mean the same thing. [TS]
01:27:56 ◼ ► and you know I think don't go back to my earlier question of like not really knowing. [TS]
01:28:00 ◼ ► What I really could do I think that was a big part of that's the kind of thing everybody can do is just the everyday [TS]
01:28:07 ◼ ► basics of the cavalry and perception and assumptions that that we can you know get caught out occasionally [TS]
01:28:14 ◼ ► and then you know edit ourselves to you know think about that in the future to be like you know actually you know that [TS]
01:28:22 ◼ ► or has one of the Sary baggage I could use as alternative instead it's better like that I think is something everybody [TS]
01:28:39 ◼ ► but your grandchildren will call those same people. It's like an hour when we look back at like T.V. [TS]
01:28:45 ◼ ► and they just are like even Mad Men like you just look at it like sex was they were like that's exactly how we're going [TS]
01:28:52 ◼ ► Like it doesn't change you know the the the amount of sexism that we have to come back from is so massive that for [TS]
01:28:59 ◼ ► or five generations ago about sex as they were like you can make a show about it you know Mad Men is part of Mad Men [TS]
01:29:06 ◼ ► Boy can you believe we were ever like that I was so long ago they're going to say exactly the same things about us [TS]
01:29:10 ◼ ► And since we can't do that since from our perspective you think it takes balls it's like that's not in the front of [TS]
01:29:17 ◼ ► and no one else is almost no one else reading it had a thought in their head about like oh that's a sexist thing to say [TS]
01:29:33 ◼ ► and it's not like it's just a difference of perspective like it takes time for that to be sort of you know conditioned [TS]
01:29:42 ◼ ► Stop saying these things make it unacceptable to say them amongst our friends like all the terrible things that I [TS]
01:29:48 ◼ ► when we were little boys like we're stuck living with that like we have to work to get that out of our brains [TS]
01:30:00 ◼ ► I think we are because of you always look back fifty one hundred two hundred years like people seem to get more [TS]
01:30:12 ◼ ► and racist like that's how it should be as we go back in time people should look more [TS]
01:30:16 ◼ ► and the Enlightenment is realizing we are exactly going to look exactly the same to people multiple generations from [TS]
01:30:24 ◼ ► and so you know you just try to try to do the best you can try to go as far forward as you possibly can in fact if you're [TS]
01:30:29 ◼ ► not farther forward than most people that you're living with you're probably doing something wrong. [TS]
01:30:40 ◼ ► That we will talk about this and I think politics there's plenty of people on both sides of that. [TS]
01:30:51 ◼ ► and everything is like historically there's just been so little voice to this like it's just been in the background [TS]
01:30:58 ◼ ► and it's like well you know everything's sexist So what you can do about it now I think more people speaking up [TS]
01:31:05 ◼ ► and getting support from other people like this is becoming more it still amazes me [TS]
01:31:12 ◼ ► Department will issue some terrible sexist statement it's like don't you read the Internet like even if you are kind of [TS]
01:31:19 ◼ ► Like this you understand this is a thing like this so little self-awareness like the worst the worst offenders are the [TS]
01:31:27 ◼ ► And so I hope that increased communication of the Internet and everything is making it spreading awareness of this [TS]
01:31:33 ◼ ► and improving matters across the board at an accelerated rate because they just seem like I mean you guys weren't [TS]
01:31:46 ◼ ► I have never seen those like Melanie Griffith or maybe Harrison Ford and I'm getting this all wrong [TS]
01:31:53 ◼ ► and now it's like this was the female empowerment movement this is Paraguay factors than it's just like insulting. [TS]
01:32:00 ◼ ► A women but it was like You go girl deuce of a row because you can have a job or wear a suit to Michael [TS]
01:32:05 ◼ ► and that was progress back then but like you know it's not even a long ago and you look at it now as like you know [TS]
01:32:10 ◼ ► and I have a feeling that like because those type of movies were not subject to sort of the you know the feedback from [TS]
01:32:23 ◼ ► and it send it out to the you know like it just we weren't all there to participate so it seemed like we couldn't we [TS]
01:32:28 ◼ ► couldn't do sort of like the the the right compile run debug iterate whatever cycle you know what I mean. [TS]
01:32:35 ◼ ► Like that's like oh so much faster now with us yelling at thing yelling at each other in real time about every little [TS]
01:32:41 ◼ ► thing and even though that whole cycle seems silly and annoying and just like people want to ignore it [TS]
01:32:45 ◼ ► or whatever I think that cycle the fact in the iteration is faster is in increasing the rate of improvement. [TS]
01:32:56 ◼ ► Yeah I kind of I know you meant that genuine and I kind of regret hitting the brakes a little bit earlier [TS]
01:33:07 ◼ ► and I don't know I'm sure you should you should feel happy that not happy but you should be both disappointed [TS]
01:33:17 ◼ ► when I look at my Twitter followers like the thing where you can look at your analytics. [TS]
01:33:22 ◼ ► and like almost none of my Twitter followers are female minds like ninety six percent men or something like that. [TS]
01:33:30 ◼ ► and I want I wonder about the listeners to the show like what their rates are are their ratio similar to our follower [TS]
01:33:36 ◼ ► accounts that you know what kind of feedback e-mail do we get our fifty percent of people listen to the show [TS]
01:33:42 ◼ ► and then but but ninety percent of the feedback we get is for men. That seems unlikely to. [TS]