00:00:09 ◼ ► Yeah that was that was my that was my first cassettes that I ever bought was MC Hammer. Yeah I was. [TS]
00:00:15 ◼ ► Please hammer Don't hurt him. Did you end up having him sign that cassette when you met him many years later. [TS]
00:00:21 ◼ ► No I did not have it with me in Manhattan and poor planning when he was promoting dance. [TS]
00:00:26 ◼ ► Did not I did I mind I was promoting tumbler yet is that still thing is dancing I'm still saying I have no clue. [TS]
00:00:33 ◼ ► I don't I've never even even that day I didn't even look it up. Dance Jam has come to an end. [TS]
00:00:39 ◼ ► Thank you all for the participation over the years but dance Jam has come to an end. [TS]
00:00:44 ◼ ► I guess they sunset their brand their with their line and their visions of us with their platform umbrella. [TS]
00:00:50 ◼ ► I'll just stop just stop you're hurting my ears. John let's talk about how you can sell tickets quickly. [TS]
00:00:58 ◼ ► Yeah last show we talked about whether how they would sell their very few take it this year of course in the grand [TS]
00:01:03 ◼ ► tradition of our Wednesday recording of our Friday show Apple announced how they were going to sell tickets after we [TS]
00:01:12 ◼ ► So one of the options is a lottery that's what Apple ended up doing and or something back and what are some insane [TS]
00:01:19 ◼ ► or they didn't think that that was really difficult to do a system that won't crash due to the onslaught of people [TS]
00:01:28 ◼ ► And on the previous show I had said that you know this is a bounded problem it's not like Facebook where in theory [TS]
00:01:38 ◼ ► and really see how we are trying to think how many people could there possibly be maybe one million is an upper bound a [TS]
00:01:45 ◼ ► and I said Surely someone could design a system that can handle the onslaught of thousand people [TS]
00:01:55 ◼ ► No guarantees you may still get blocked out but it's a way of potentially increasing your odds. Versus a lottery. [TS]
00:02:02 ◼ ► A truly random lottery where there is no way of increasing your odds doesn't matter [TS]
00:02:11 ◼ ► and so someone said well that's what Google did too because apparently even the mighty Google couldn't put up a service [TS]
00:02:18 ◼ ► Conference so it was stand out so they did a lottery instead I don't think Google did a lottery because they couldn't [TS]
00:02:25 ◼ ► It's conceivable that Google did the same that was made we're underestimating where the demand would be [TS]
00:02:32 ◼ ► but I think it is entirely within Google's technical expertise to make a system that would allow a million [TS]
00:02:43 ◼ ► And as evidence of this someone on Twitter pointed me to Shmoo con I hope I'm pronouncing it correctly yes it could be [TS]
00:02:53 ◼ ► From the description on their website it's an annual east coast hacker convention hell bent on offering three days of [TS]
00:02:58 ◼ ► an interesting atmosphere for demonstrating technology technology exploitation bubble of anyway [TS]
00:03:03 ◼ ► and it's you know biotech Nereids for techno it's presumably it's a small conference [TS]
00:03:07 ◼ ► but they did pretty much what I described on the previous show which is like well just make something simple [TS]
00:03:12 ◼ ► and straightforward with their I think fancy unit and have a system whereby every just floods it all at once [TS]
00:03:17 ◼ ► and everyone you know first come first serve and that's all there is to it and it's not a guarantee [TS]
00:03:23 ◼ ► and you could still be the very first person to click the button so I get a ticket because of the vagaries of the way [TS]
00:03:28 ◼ ► servers work but at least you're increasing your odds in a service don't fall down. [TS]
00:03:33 ◼ ► and that what they did is they did a series of rounds where they would release six hundred fifty tickets at once like [TS]
00:03:38 ◼ ► you know and I don't know how long the rounds were separated by maybe an hour whatever [TS]
00:03:43 ◼ ► and then if you get your as if you reserve your spot then you have like five minutes to check out [TS]
00:03:48 ◼ ► or something like that and if you decide not to buy the ticket it goes back into the pool [TS]
00:03:52 ◼ ► and everyone who didn't make it into didn't get a reservation gets put in a queue for anything that's coming you know [TS]
00:04:01 ◼ ► So anyway I'm I'm you know the person who was haranguing about this on Twitter was telling me that you know in a [TS]
00:04:11 ◼ ► I'm I'm pretty sure after what twenty years of doing web development I know what is [TS]
00:04:17 ◼ ► and it is possible to make a system that gives you slightly increased odds of getting a ticket if you if you are one of [TS]
00:04:28 ◼ ► No guarantees is not going to be perfect but you can make a server that doesn't crash under this kind of load. [TS]
00:04:32 ◼ ► And apparently these people have done it and I was you know they were going back and forth [TS]
00:04:38 ◼ ► but the bottom line is that I think Apple and Google both had slightly more financial [TS]
00:04:43 ◼ ► and technical resources than Shmoo con so eventual calm is doing six hundred fifty ticket rounds so you could see Apple [TS]
00:04:55 ◼ ► and one programmer they could use that technology to do like seven or eight rounds and Philip [TS]
00:05:04 ◼ ► and do something similar anyway regardless of you know this in the previous show at a lottery is by far the best system [TS]
00:05:17 ◼ ► but I want to bring it up again because there is an actual example right down to the sort of very simple text only not [TS]
00:05:23 ◼ ► very fancy looking stuff written I think by one one or two people who were there were saying this is on Twitter. [TS]
00:05:30 ◼ ► Honestly I would love the chance to try to write something like that just because like I would take it as a just like [TS]
00:05:36 ◼ ► the Whenever there's a big key note that is not live stream that everybody clogs the hell out of the various blogs that [TS]
00:05:51 ◼ ► and see like how how much is to have to remember all those things crashing Ars Technica have the same problem because I [TS]
00:06:06 ◼ ► and they've been using it ever since with no problems one person probably a couple months of development. [TS]
00:06:13 ◼ ► Oh yeah I mean it's like if you if you custom tailored to exactly your needs and no more [TS]
00:06:19 ◼ ► and you do it right taking advantage of things like you know S three and CD ends to alleviate a lot of the load [TS]
00:06:25 ◼ ► and you know the spreading out the load stuff like that you can you can do it they can be really cool anyway so like I [TS]
00:06:32 ◼ ► think this kind of thing like I would love the chance to design this kind of system [TS]
00:06:35 ◼ ► and see like how like couldn't handle the rush from a five thousand ticket conference of you know fifty thousand people [TS]
00:06:43 ◼ ► or whatever whatever the number might be if you were in a class like a college course about this topic that this would [TS]
00:06:55 ◼ ► Never had like a test harness that was subject your system to the stresses newbie you have some given amount of [TS]
00:07:02 ◼ ► or whatever like it's it doesn't get much more straightforward than this like you know so you don't have to do the [TS]
00:07:07 ◼ ► purchase part just to the reservation part like that is almost the simplest possible problem you could have no big red [TS]
00:07:15 ◼ ► Database let me use a relational database let me try it with flat files on which I would share a memory like you could [TS]
00:07:24 ◼ ► and using it in the atomic operations within memcache cleverly to to make it basically an all them cash illusion that [TS]
00:07:31 ◼ ► the exercise would be like within a given set of hardware all these different technologies. [TS]
00:07:41 ◼ ► but like you would have to have something that scale the horizontal it like it's a good object lesson because it's it's [TS]
00:07:46 ◼ ► a very simple thing that you're trying to do actually talk about how they have scaling way down the road. [TS]
00:07:51 ◼ ► But anyway continuing for a little bit quick topic right in then do you want to talk about. [TS]
00:08:00 ◼ ► How anything else regarding the sign up process specifically like the follow up area. [TS]
00:08:13 ◼ ► We are sponsored this week by our friends at transporter the transporter is a special extra hard drive that you own [TS]
00:08:19 ◼ ► and control like any other external hard drive but it has these awesome cloud a network features [TS]
00:08:25 ◼ ► but it's all private it's a private cloud that allows you to have a sharing and sync [TS]
00:08:29 ◼ ► and a whole bunch of other cloud benefits without the files actually being stored on the cloud the files are stored on [TS]
00:08:38 ◼ ► and you only control that drive so like Dropbox you can access your files from any of your computers or your I.I.S. [TS]
00:08:45 ◼ ► or Android devices all your transport of files are available from anywhere that has Internet access assuming your home [TS]
00:09:04 ◼ ► or a co-worker has won multiple transporters can replicate each other you can set to replicate the whole thing [TS]
00:09:14 ◼ ► or to provide an easy off site backup like if you have you can have one at home want to work want to friends [TS]
00:09:23 ◼ ► So if you want to sync just one folder for instance you and a friend or a co-worker [TS]
00:09:29 ◼ ► and collaborate on a project in those files always I mean think about how big they are. [TS]
00:09:36 ◼ ► So your data with transporter is secure it's never stored on cloud servers you know you don't have to worry about like [TS]
00:09:46 ◼ ► and you know maybe government stuff might get in the way with transporter your data is stored on your hard drive it in [TS]
00:09:53 ◼ ► when data is transferred is transferred directly between transporters end to end encryption is used so there's no. [TS]
00:10:00 ◼ ► But in the middle who can read it all the let's talk about the Hartley by going to few minutes [TS]
00:10:07 ◼ ► So your data is very secure a transporter so how do you only see things go to File transport [TS]
00:10:12 ◼ ► or Store dot com They have a handful of models here you can get five hundred gigs for just one ninety nine one terabyte [TS]
00:10:22 ◼ ► and they have this other model called the transporter sync which is a little ninety nine dollars almost like a puck [TS]
00:10:27 ◼ ► kind of thing and it just has a U.S.B. Port on one side and a network port on the other and so you plug in any U.S.B. [TS]
00:10:35 ◼ ► and then against all the features of a transporter with harddrive you already have at the transporter sync for just. [TS]
00:10:41 ◼ ► ninety nine dollars and all these prices take another ten percent off by using coupon code A.T.P. [TS]
00:10:55 ◼ ► and that's it no matter how much data you store as long as it fits on there that's it you're paying no monthly fees [TS]
00:11:02 ◼ ► and if you look for example you know let's get the to Terra by model if you look to see how much it cost to store two [TS]
00:11:08 ◼ ► terabytes of photos on a cloud service you're going to pretty quickly see the benefits here. [TS]
00:11:21 ◼ ► To get ten percent off thanks a lot the transporter for sponsoring our show once again. [TS]
00:11:32 ◼ ► So all three of us registered for tickets we were registered for the opportunity of spend sixteen hundred dollars. [TS]
00:11:51 ◼ ► and thankfully since I'm gainfully employed Unlike you I used works money to spend six hundred dollars. [TS]
00:12:03 ◼ ► and a half after the Suppose a deadline that unfortunately you cannot win a chance to spend six hundred dollars. [TS]
00:12:13 ◼ ► and I know this probably doesn't come across as genuine because I am very excited to have gotten a ticket [TS]
00:12:24 ◼ ► but almost wish that of the three of us you are one to get the ticket because I think it takes the most encouragement [TS]
00:12:33 ◼ ► And so I feel like the universe has kind of wronged all of us by not allowing you to win the lottery. [TS]
00:12:42 ◼ ► and the I also you know because because I mean you know you look around at the at the rate of people you hear from on [TS]
00:13:07 ◼ ► and it's funny because before the tickets went on Survivor before the lottery ended I had plucked out of thin air [TS]
00:13:14 ◼ ► and you know I betcha it's about fifty thousand people because I knew a lot of right and I should say a lot [TS]
00:13:18 ◼ ► but I knew a handful of people that I didn't think or they didn't think that they would go if they got a ticket [TS]
00:13:24 ◼ ► but what harm is it in throwing your name in the hat. You know there's no there's no penalty for that really. [TS]
00:13:36 ◼ ► and given that it's about a five thousand person conference even I can handle that math says it's about fifty thousand [TS]
00:13:43 ◼ ► Right after the announcement it seemed to me like it was you had a fifty fifty shot because I would say roughly half [TS]
00:13:51 ◼ ► but then later on I start hearing about like Whole blocks of people who are like oh yeah everybody in our ten person [TS]
00:14:00 ◼ ► Now that I knew beforehand if you were to ask me I would say like ten to one or twenty to one [TS]
00:14:07 ◼ ► but I don't think we have a good sample size because you don't know everybody who's in maybe only the winners are [TS]
00:14:12 ◼ ► saying yea they got them instead of being set or they didn't. I'm not even sure Apple will give us numbers. [TS]
00:14:22 ◼ ► but they talk about all their numbers that they're proud of will be like welcome to have you received so popular the [TS]
00:14:26 ◼ ► blah blah blah. You know maybe they'll throw something out there but in the end it doesn't matter too much. [TS]
00:14:34 ◼ ► or a thousand to one I think we can ballpark it you know it's somewhere between you know two to one ten to one twenty [TS]
00:14:40 ◼ ► one but I would be really surprised if it's hundred one. It seems like it's much lower than that. Yeah I mean it's. [TS]
00:14:55 ◼ ► And really the only reason I even agreed to talk about it here is that everyone's asking us [TS]
00:15:00 ◼ ► but I feel guilty that I got one not guilty not to not take it. So if I ever is guilty. [TS]
00:15:12 ◼ ► or not because there are two things at play one is that some people who got the chance to buy a ticket take it chose [TS]
00:15:18 ◼ ► not to know people who did that because I was asking them if they could somehow transfer their ticket to me I don't [TS]
00:15:26 ◼ ► and you choose not to buy it well then you choose not to buy those tickets go back into a pool somewhere [TS]
00:15:31 ◼ ► and presumably Apple will disperse them to people who didn't win the lottery the first time. [TS]
00:15:37 ◼ ► and the second part is the glimmer of hope that someone inside Apple knows who I am [TS]
00:15:40 ◼ ► and says oh we should get that guy take it and some people might give me a hard time about that [TS]
00:15:45 ◼ ► or some people think that I should feel bad that it somehow because I have this amount of fame from writing these [TS]
00:16:00 ◼ ► Certain journalists get tickets and other ones don't depending on your publications [TS]
00:16:04 ◼ ► or because of your readership is it because of your fame is because the wife you Apple just chooses which people in the [TS]
00:16:14 ◼ ► but for many years lots of other people didn't get press passes and then they did get them [TS]
00:16:17 ◼ ► and then they didn't get them and it's like it's whoever Apple takes about the likes of you [TS]
00:16:22 ◼ ► and people inside Apple like you you get nice things from Apple if they don't like you [TS]
00:16:28 ◼ ► I have limited control over that and hopefully you know over doing writing reviews that people Apple might read them. [TS]
00:16:35 ◼ ► but you know it's not I don't feel guilty if I get special treatment because of that for the same reason. [TS]
00:16:41 ◼ ► You know John group we shouldn't feel guilty that he gets a press pass so I go oh you've got a press guys who you run [TS]
00:16:46 ◼ ► during final Yeah that's why he got a press pass like you know it makes perfect sense to me [TS]
00:16:55 ◼ ► when Gruber gets a press pass those press passes are only good for the keynote they're after the keynote that's it. [TS]
00:17:02 ◼ ► So the press even if you had a press pass it wouldn't really help for your purposes because your purposes are you [TS]
00:17:16 ◼ ► or for either means for the keynote that really wouldn't help you at all because it would only be for that morning [TS]
00:17:22 ◼ ► which you can watch anytime and anywhere anyway and most of the stuff that you would talk about [TS]
00:17:26 ◼ ► or you know going to the lads asking questions talking to the engineers the press pass wouldn't lie to do any of that [TS]
00:17:32 ◼ ► Yeah if I had to choose like you know I mean the president was I'm not I'm not being press of the king you know talked [TS]
00:17:40 ◼ ► and I told ours like if you get a press pass use it for people who are going to report on the keynote because I'm not [TS]
00:17:44 ◼ ► going to report on the keynote and you can use that's what you use the press test of the process is useless to me. [TS]
00:17:48 ◼ ► I need the pass to the entire conference I go to sessions every single day for the entire week. [TS]
00:17:54 ◼ ► So you know while Ovi fund to go to the Keynote and be in there or whatever you know. [TS]
00:18:00 ◼ ► A press fair I would never take a press pass away from someone who's actually going there to report. [TS]
00:18:07 ◼ ► I feel like I'm going to just as many sessions of the quote unquote real developer and I'm paying attention [TS]
00:18:13 ◼ ► and I'm taking notes and I'm using that information to do something what I'm doing is not writing a program [TS]
00:18:18 ◼ ► but I don't think it's any less of a practical useful thing for me to go to all those sessions [TS]
00:18:23 ◼ ► and synthesize all the data so I feel no guilt in sort of oh you're taking a pass from someone who's a developer if [TS]
00:18:31 ◼ ► You can be sure that I'm going sometime between taking that thousand going dollars sessions like Asia do. [TS]
00:18:36 ◼ ► If I don't know well what can you do. Yeah I think you know there's always every year we even thought it was last year. [TS]
00:18:46 ◼ ► and there's always people who get in who you can be pretty much after five minutes talking [TS]
00:18:52 ◼ ► and you can pretty much tell like yeah they didn't really need to be like people who just really aren't into it like [TS]
00:19:05 ◼ ► and they're just they're like because their company was willing to send them in they happened to get a ticket [TS]
00:19:09 ◼ ► or something like It's like you know you shouldn't feel bad about it like if you're if you're at all interested in this [TS]
00:19:16 ◼ ► world of of these ecosystems if you're at all interested you should not feel bad taking it take it for it because [TS]
00:19:23 ◼ ► there's you know yeah there are a lot of people who are interested who don't get tickets but like you [TS]
00:19:31 ◼ ► and I honestly like the videos really do help like if I don't get a ticket why it's not so bad this year not calamitous [TS]
00:19:36 ◼ ► to my review hopefully as a disseminator announce that they released eight of us ten is like a week after seeing which [TS]
00:19:44 ◼ ► They released the videos in a timely manner now so it's not so bad for me to not be there to sit through the sessions. [TS]
00:19:54 ◼ ► and stuff that I've spent multiple hours talking to that's just. People about ad W W D C. [TS]
00:20:07 ◼ ► and those are some of the you know like from the outside if you look at my reviews like maybe it looks like all this [TS]
00:20:15 ◼ ► but I know the president of nation that I never would have known had I not been physically had received [TS]
00:20:21 ◼ ► The sessions have tons of information too so it's not the end of the world from our view. [TS]
00:20:25 ◼ ► There are always the end of the world my view is always about the now it's for the release date because that tells me [TS]
00:20:29 ◼ ► how much time I have to write the thing but you know it's fun to go out there for a week it's fun to see people [TS]
00:20:34 ◼ ► and I like being in the sessions like there's something about being in the room even for things like the State of the [TS]
00:20:38 ◼ ► unions in the keynote being in that room gives you a better idea of like what the vibe is than watching the videos [TS]
00:20:48 ◼ ► but they're post processed in a way that like it doesn't feel like it does in the room in the room you can get a sense [TS]
00:20:52 ◼ ► of what people really think about the going on for good or bad and any of these announcements [TS]
00:20:59 ◼ ► or whatever like it's a whole it's whole thing I'll be really be sad if I don't manage to get a ticket [TS]
00:21:03 ◼ ► but again what can you do. Yeah in the videos they dig first of all they don't show the presenter. [TS]
00:21:18 ◼ ► They'll actually cut that out for a time because they try to make them faster right. [TS]
00:21:22 ◼ ► Yeah but it's like being there live gets you all that stuff. No question and that's great and if there is Q. [TS]
00:21:35 ◼ ► but the videos have the advantage of being able to skim through being able to rewind to be able to play it faster than [TS]
00:21:50 ◼ ► or even if you're even if you're a slow note taker you can still follow along which is very nice [TS]
00:22:00 ◼ ► Videos to be able to skim through and play them like one point five X. or One point six X. [TS]
00:22:04 ◼ ► and and Get through a lot more a lot faster or you can skip over sections that you already know about [TS]
00:22:11 ◼ ► Stuff like that you know timely release of the videos is so much more important than getting a ticket in terms of you [TS]
00:22:20 ◼ ► when they weren't timely I had to be in there taking notes like a demon because as soon as they change that slide I was [TS]
00:22:29 ◼ ► and so like this is my only chance to type that literally like transcribing the slide the many times I took pictures of [TS]
00:22:36 ◼ ► the slides like I can't come because I was going to take a picture like it was a bad situation now like for the past [TS]
00:22:41 ◼ ► two years when they've been so good with the video it's like to relax you know because you know [TS]
00:22:44 ◼ ► when the slides are going to be a look at those lives in a couple days anyway you'll be fine. [TS]
00:22:49 ◼ ► and then you can write down what you really should be writing down is like your thoughts that you know your synthesis [TS]
00:22:53 ◼ ► of the information you're receiving or points that occur to your question is you want to ask and even if there's no Q. [TS]
00:22:58 ◼ ► and A There's always the bunch of nerds gather around the presenter at the end of the thing [TS]
00:23:02 ◼ ► and if you really have a pressing question you you know take note of that presenter [TS]
00:23:13 ◼ ► and I start doing myself is even if I don't have a question I'll just go up there and stand there [TS]
00:23:20 ◼ ► and the answers that they get because a lot of times like the the mob presenter at the end answering questions from [TS]
00:23:27 ◼ ► crazy people you can get a lot of information out of that that is useful that you know maybe there are some questions [TS]
00:23:36 ◼ ► So I always end up there is listen even if I don't say so what do you guys think will happen this coming Monday at five [TS]
00:23:44 ◼ ► Pacific which is when the deadline is for those who won the lottery to actually commit [TS]
00:23:50 ◼ ► and reward Apple for their winning the lottery with six hundred dollars you know what do they do with those excess [TS]
00:24:00 ◼ ► Do they do a second run lottery like they've never said anything about a waiting list what do you suspect is going to [TS]
00:24:09 ◼ ► and if you're one of the lucky few you will get an e-mail that says I know we told you before you can go take it [TS]
00:24:16 ◼ ► but I don't think they'll send out more negative e-mails like that I won't get a second email telling me a bunch of new [TS]
00:24:21 ◼ ► tickets I really want to be I wouldn't bother but you don't just want to be there later. [TS]
00:24:28 ◼ ► That's that's what I suspect that the lucky people kind of like what happened in that year [TS]
00:24:32 ◼ ► when everyone is like have purchased things in their car like they just went to those people [TS]
00:24:35 ◼ ► and said hey it looks like you tried to buy taken didn't get it if you still want to like it [TS]
00:24:43 ◼ ► Well so last year and the year before like you know when they've sold out rapidly and probably before that too [TS]
00:24:59 ◼ ► or really deserving didn't get a ticket they could like email their friends at Apple [TS]
00:25:06 ◼ ► So there's always been this pool of tickets that that might be given away you know as the developer relations people [TS]
00:25:13 ◼ ► you know at their discretion or to like important corporate clients or whatever the case may be [TS]
00:25:18 ◼ ► or you know good you know good stories from students or young people or whatever else so that my guess is when [TS]
00:25:27 ◼ ► when the number of tickets that are unclaimed becomes you know established if I'm really really really high like over [TS]
00:25:35 ◼ ► you know I mean there's about five thousand tickets if let's say that number is over a thousand if over a thousand of [TS]
00:25:41 ◼ ► them are unclaimed. That weren't already reserved to be given away at their discretion. [TS]
00:25:48 ◼ ► but honestly I would assume that whatever pool is not a claim to the random lottery that just gets added to their pool [TS]
00:26:00 ◼ ► Way say I thought I figured they had their discretionary pool was already pretty big [TS]
00:26:03 ◼ ► and that's why I thought they would do this a second random thing is that I thought they already had a discussion April [TS]
00:26:11 ◼ ► I mean again this is why the system is great for Apple we have no idea how they distributed tickets was a truly random. [TS]
00:26:19 ◼ ► Number of people from the Microsoft Office team get in there and these people from Adobe [TS]
00:26:23 ◼ ► and like you know the people who who have business relationships these people for me have to go I can imagine of [TS]
00:26:34 ◼ ► and like it could be that the entire thing was like that like that was like a large portion of the pool could have been [TS]
00:26:40 ◼ ► discretionary so they pinned down all their discretionary first and then to everybody else random [TS]
00:26:44 ◼ ► and that's why I think if these people don't buy again they will have already made sure that the people they care about [TS]
00:26:49 ◼ ► got them and then just do a second random thing. But none of us know that's the beauty and beauty of the system. [TS]
00:26:54 ◼ ► Apple can do whatever they want and from the outside reaches all have to assume it is entirely random and fair [TS]
00:26:59 ◼ ► and from what I've seen like it's always you can always do pattern matching in kind of a conspiracy theories like Oh no [TS]
00:27:05 ◼ ► nobody from rogue amoeba got one not all Apple doesn't like Rogue Mima therefore they're they're being shunned [TS]
00:27:10 ◼ ► but until we know what the total number of people trying to buy tickets was like What are the odds that all seven [TS]
00:27:22 ◼ ► and you know I don't want the other I think I think we're probably like in the show the two of the three of us got [TS]
00:27:26 ◼ ► tickets and I don't think it was because someone was trying to give people or maybe just us the luck of the draw. [TS]
00:27:32 ◼ ► So someone is better at probability than I am can calculate the odds that any specific group of people all didn't get [TS]
00:27:38 ◼ ► tickets but I have a feeling that it's impossible to tell from the outside of whether it was truly random. [TS]
00:27:44 ◼ ► I mean I think that at least some part I think the part that's been given away so far was random because you know not [TS]
00:28:01 ◼ ► and reject like they use the word random so many times it would be really weird to say random so much if that portion [TS]
00:28:15 ◼ ► or not specify so I would imagine this was actually random Now they could have randomly given away thirty five hundred [TS]
00:28:23 ◼ ► and kept fifteen hundred for themselves for discretionary use who knows. Yeah and I feel like it. [TS]
00:28:28 ◼ ► It leaves some portion has to be random because how else do you explain away me getting a ticket and not John. [TS]
00:28:39 ◼ ► There's a pretty simple argument that the community at large would be better seeing a better O.-S. [TS]
00:28:50 ◼ ► and well like the other weddings they could use for example like here's a things I'd imagine if they were going to do a [TS]
00:28:56 ◼ ► non-random dispersal any randomly you know pseudo randomly where they use the built in rand and put a defiant seed in [TS]
00:29:02 ◼ ► but anyway I think there's many things that can weigh in there which could be like have you seen before if you have [TS]
00:29:08 ◼ ► your odds go down if you haven't your odds go up because they want some portion of the people to be like new people do [TS]
00:29:15 ◼ ► How long have you had a developer account how many bugs have you filed like all sorts of criteria you can imagine [TS]
00:29:21 ◼ ► coming up with this crazy algorithm to cut away to try to like we want some percentage of new people. [TS]
00:29:28 ◼ ► but if you just want to give someone else a chance like you can imagine trying to cover the algorithm [TS]
00:29:35 ◼ ► and saying you know it's not deterministic it's just waiting your chances based on the criteria [TS]
00:29:40 ◼ ► or it could be entirely random like again we don't know. But like it seems like it's pretty fair. [TS]
00:29:50 ◼ ► or can try to convince myself of it's because like you know the jewels were produced pattern matching machines [TS]
00:29:55 ◼ ► and I'll try to apply whatever you know or try to apply a narrative to anything through. [TS]
00:30:02 ◼ ► but yeah I'm I'm pretty darn certain that they have a reasonably large pool of discretionary ones that they are sort of [TS]
00:30:10 ◼ ► pinning down on the people they definitely want to come and I am not receiving on that group nor do I expect to be [TS]
00:30:15 ◼ ► nor should I be I was hoping that I can you know you got one of the dregs but people through than to buy tickets. [TS]
00:30:23 ◼ ► I think also I mean I haven't heard of anybody getting a discretionary ticket offered to them yet they're probably at [TS]
00:30:28 ◼ ► least waiting until this timeout period ends so they know how many they have which is one of the reasons why I think [TS]
00:30:35 ◼ ► why these aren't going to be really randomize that there that's going to be added to the discretionary pool. [TS]
00:30:40 ◼ ► Well I mean like used to go to transfer them like there wasn't like a reservation a purchase that used to be that you [TS]
00:30:48 ◼ ► Things over in past years there was lots of sort of horse trading going on of transferring these things around from one [TS]
00:30:52 ◼ ► person to the other. But that's not possible here as far as I know overall are you guys. [TS]
00:31:02 ◼ ► Our opinion of this is probably biased but overall how happy are you with this system that they did. [TS]
00:31:10 ◼ ► I don't love it but I can't conceive of a better system that isn't me selecting all my friends [TS]
00:31:22 ◼ ► I wish there were something that worked out better selfishly in the sense that you know I wouldn't. [TS]
00:31:32 ◼ ► but if you look at the bigger picture I can't I can't conceive of a system wherein I think it's more fair [TS]
00:31:44 ◼ ► I think a lottery or even a lottery with some allotment on the side is about as fair as you can get. [TS]
00:32:00 ◼ ► when we were speaking about what they would do I said this is me be my preferred system even if I didn't win because I [TS]
00:32:09 ◼ ► think this is again it's like you know you can think of all these different ways to try to alleviate the problem of way [TS]
00:32:15 ◼ ► too many people wanting to be in a conference that really can't and probably shouldn't grow larger. [TS]
00:32:27 ◼ ► The weather service was perfectly fine possibly as a result of the E. Mail delivery pace. [TS]
00:32:33 ◼ ► The check out process was lightning fast and fine like everything the whole thing worked fine. [TS]
00:32:46 ◼ ► I really think they did the best they could and it worked. It worked as well as it could have. [TS]
00:32:53 ◼ ► and it's unchanged I like the idea that people who are more enthusiastic about going can somehow increase their odds [TS]
00:33:02 ◼ ► but just like increase their odds slightly that whole thing of ever and sitting around waiting for a coffee [TS]
00:33:12 ◼ ► but it's a reasonable way because you are expressing your maniacal enthusiasm for wanting to go. [TS]
00:33:26 ◼ ► At the time of purchase to increase your odds the only way you can increase your odds is by you know doing something [TS]
00:33:31 ◼ ► over the course of two decades to put you into the good graces of Apple which is much harder to do. A day before. [TS]
00:33:38 ◼ ► I would've said it even if I got to take it this time because I like you know it's sort of the powerlessness of like [TS]
00:33:48 ◼ ► And I guess you know there's no way for me to to express that I want to go to this more than somebody else [TS]
00:33:54 ◼ ► and surely I want to go to this more than at least one or two other people. So there's no way for me to to. [TS]
00:34:00 ◼ ► My God I find I find it like a controlled setting an apple I'm sure if I have a lack of control delicious and lovely [TS]
00:34:14 ◼ ► So John what I think you're saying is in a perfect John Syracuse take a distribution world Apple would do what they did [TS]
00:34:24 ◼ ► in the first few years of me going anyway where they randomly out of the blue I guess so that was last year was years [TS]
00:34:33 ◼ ► Out of the blue they just let the tickets go and everyone has to jump on and stomp on their servers [TS]
00:34:39 ◼ ► and try to get in before the servers crumble so no no that was that that was no good because of the people who live in [TS]
00:34:46 ◼ ► time zones and stuff like you know our enthusiastic you are to AM where you are is not fair. [TS]
00:34:52 ◼ ► OK So so what would you say then saw what I was going to say was let's assume the servers can handle that kind of [TS]
00:35:01 ◼ ► Assuming the servers can handle it you would still do like twenty thirteen where they pre-announce What time is it. [TS]
00:35:07 ◼ ► and date I mean someone's going to go through it anyway because it's going to be three in the morning [TS]
00:35:17 ◼ ► or like this this hemisphere this time zone release tickets in blocks like they have a ways to control basically you [TS]
00:35:25 ◼ ► and you express you express your desire to go by being there hovering over the button at the exact moment [TS]
00:35:30 ◼ ► and even if they all saw it in five seconds if you were one of the people who put that button within that five seconds [TS]
00:35:35 ◼ ► and you got lucky because again it's not a guarantee you know due to the magic of concurrency [TS]
00:35:39 ◼ ► and everything at the very least you increase your odds versus someone who just rolled in thirty seconds later [TS]
00:35:47 ◼ ► but didn't get a chance you know I mean like it's not great it's not a great way to express your enthusiasm it's not a [TS]
00:35:51 ◼ ► perfect system but it is a way to increase your odds and the only thing you need is like that you've never been. [TS]
00:36:00 ◼ ► My boy I have never been to see I keep hearing about it sounds really great I really really want to go. [TS]
00:36:04 ◼ ► All you gotta do is make that decision sometime before the date that they announce and sit there [TS]
00:36:07 ◼ ► and your mouse button and click your little thing to your point and that doesn't make sense. [TS]
00:36:23 ◼ ► But before that new relic is an all in one web app performance management tool it lets you see performance from the end [TS]
00:36:30 ◼ ► user experience through your servers and down to each line of your server side code. [TS]
00:36:38 ◼ ► and say a big Thank You to all you data nerds out there building all this great stuff that we all know and love. [TS]
00:36:44 ◼ ► They're sending a shout out to the developers software geeks the code jockeys to those brave few who see things [TS]
00:36:54 ◼ ► Here's to working nights to wear an oversized concentration enhancing headphones hey you know they got me there upon [TS]
00:37:00 ◼ ► your furrowed brow as I don't know from furrowed that that's like when you're like tense angry looking right [TS]
00:37:05 ◼ ► when a brother opens in the middle. You know I'm not usually for but I do always wear giant headphones. [TS]
00:37:18 ◼ ► Software powers are apps runs our databases manages our accounts and runs e-commerce sites and e-mail programs. [TS]
00:37:24 ◼ ► When software breaks everyone loses new relic helps improve your software performance so your users have a better [TS]
00:37:35 ◼ ► So a new relic monitors every move your application makes across the entire stack. [TS]
00:37:39 ◼ ► They can show you what's happening right now you can zero in on problems quickly with transaction tracing S.Q.L. [TS]
00:37:50 ◼ ► and comparison than even half the things are but they sound really cool. Just signed up a new relit dot com slash A.T.P. [TS]
00:38:00 ◼ ► Do you deploy their agent other agent is a has native support right built in for Ruby P.H.P. [TS]
00:38:08 ◼ ► and even node has a meter on there on the ball here that's all the cool stuff all the cool kids using one of those [TS]
00:38:18 ◼ ► and you can quickly see inside your app to start finding hotspots bottlenecks you can surf it fixing issues [TS]
00:38:23 ◼ ► and optimizing your performance. Once again new relicts dot com slash A.T.P. For a free thirty day trial. [TS]
00:38:30 ◼ ► Check it out thanks a lot to new relic for sponsoring our show so work I am not involved with our application [TS]
00:38:37 ◼ ► performance management group but we do have one and we use several different tools [TS]
00:38:43 ◼ ► but I can sell you with my hand in my heart that new relic is one of our favorites [TS]
00:38:47 ◼ ► and although I've not used it personally I know that my my guys and girls at work who have used it really do like it. [TS]
00:38:56 ◼ ► So before the break I had asked you guys are cute you guys up to ask how it is going to be do you see the right answer [TS]
00:39:02 ◼ ► for for accomplishing what Apple is setting out to accomplish with the conference and if not what should we do [TS]
00:39:11 ◼ ► when I bring this up because I've gone to a couple of Twitter discussions about how out of D.C. [TS]
00:39:16 ◼ ► and this shouldn't go on they should make it so much bigger other Mosconi have much more space this is terrible oh my [TS]
00:39:23 ◼ ► god level and I just don't see how he would be the same anymore if only anything changed about it. [TS]
00:39:54 ◼ ► and I know it was different you know various points in the past before then but since I've gone in. [TS]
00:40:01 ◼ ► It's been pretty much the exact same the entire time they've you know they've they've had minor improvements to certain [TS]
00:40:13 ◼ ► I can have the ones that banana in them and so every year there's like one flavor I can have and [TS]
00:40:19 ◼ ► and say that that sucked because they remove the good one last year besides that they also patrolled it a lot more. [TS]
00:40:25 ◼ ► Did you notice they didn't release the Odwalla refrigerator as often. Exactly which was too bad. [TS]
00:40:33 ◼ ► Exactly but you know besides you had while flavor changed the Great a while flavor changed twenty thirteen [TS]
00:40:44 ◼ ► but besides that you know they're trying to alleviate this with things like releasing the videos really really quickly [TS]
00:40:52 ◼ ► and make them available to everyone not just ten days which there are a couple of things to change I think a few years [TS]
00:40:57 ◼ ► back and and having the tech talk all around the country for free that are like you know like one day many devotees [TS]
00:41:11 ◼ ► and so that's one thing you could do maybe is people you know have have basically two parallel conferences [TS]
00:41:18 ◼ ► or two sequential conferences one focused for game developers and technologies they use [TS]
00:41:24 ◼ ► and one focused on Abdel verse because that that actually is a pretty pretty effective bisection of the market not just [TS]
00:41:35 ◼ ► and the like there's enough people on both sides to pack those conferences full and it's a pretty good division [TS]
00:41:40 ◼ ► but also because there's there's good subject matter division there that there's a whole lot of stuff like almost all [TS]
00:41:45 ◼ ► of the interface U.I. Stuff widget stuff like game developers almost never use those things. [TS]
00:41:51 ◼ ► So you know so much of that like so much of the like if if if I was we should actually have an I was eight. [TS]
00:42:00 ◼ ► Action slash wishlist segment at some point but probably before Debussy would be nice [TS]
00:42:13 ◼ ► or vice versa whatever whatever the match is up there if they had something like that then that's again game developers [TS]
00:42:19 ◼ ► probably wouldn't use that. Game developers need a lot more stuff about media and G.L. [TS]
00:42:24 ◼ ► and There's some things that are common like networking frameworks that that's common you know memory management [TS]
00:42:29 ◼ ► profiling tools stuff like that. Most of that is coming between the two worlds but there's so much stuff that isn't. [TS]
00:42:35 ◼ ► Whereas if you if you took pretty much any other division like you know Macs versus I.I.S. [TS]
00:42:41 ◼ ► Even is a pretty bad division these days because there's not that much stuff exclusive to one [TS]
00:42:47 ◼ ► or the other anymore that at least that's worth talking about at the B.B.C. So there's all that. [TS]
00:42:55 ◼ ► But then you know what if they do something like what if they announce an i Watch or some kind of new platform. [TS]
00:43:03 ◼ ► and you know do you know which one covers which you can see there or there are problems with that approach as well. [TS]
00:43:12 ◼ ► I think they're already doing what they can which is you know sells man tickets as they can [TS]
00:43:25 ◼ ► And this this began a little bit last year but this year I'm seeing it more a lot of the people I know [TS]
00:43:30 ◼ ► when I was a community didn't even try to get tickets that they just like I will you know what I'll just I'll save the [TS]
00:43:40 ◼ ► I have all the social aspects and all the you know business meetings and networking you know. [TS]
00:43:45 ◼ ► Most of it that you get that I can do and I'll just like you know hang out with some friends every day [TS]
00:43:52 ◼ ► and I think by having the videos come out like right then rather than you know only a couple years ago the videos [TS]
00:44:00 ◼ ► A week after the conference was revolutionary because it used to be months that they would come a month after the [TS]
00:44:06 ◼ ► Congress to come out and in a couple years ago it was a week and then last year it was like half a day [TS]
00:44:13 ◼ ► and that changed everything I think because now it is totally plausible to go out there [TS]
00:44:20 ◼ ► and watch the videos during the week in the in the week of the conference while you're out there without actually [TS]
00:44:26 ◼ ► attending it and I know a lot of people who chose to do that even before the new with the I think they didn't even try. [TS]
00:44:37 ◼ ► So I have one problem with what you just said which is how do you acquire these videos if you're not sitting in the [TS]
00:44:53 ◼ ► Connection unless you're somehow you know rich enough to afford a ninety gig connection that I I have I don't know what [TS]
00:45:04 ◼ ► I mean I sure wouldn't do it in the past I've never done a lot of stuff until I've gotten it I have to hear it for the [TS]
00:45:11 ◼ ► exact reason because I was contemplating going even without a ticket before I knew whether or not I would get a ticket. [TS]
00:45:18 ◼ ► And the one problem I had with my grand master plan grand master plan was I could spend the day watching the videos [TS]
00:45:30 ◼ ► But I didn't know how to get the videos because I put a wife my socks always even in a place like San Francisco where [TS]
00:45:47 ◼ ► or maybe maybe one of the answers to make them more livable is to allow people into the cafeteria area during not [TS]
00:45:55 ◼ ► eating times I know there's a million logistical issues there but my point is give give. [TS]
00:46:00 ◼ ► The John Surtees of the world not to pick on you John but give you a way to get these videos with a quickness. [TS]
00:46:09 ◼ ► Well they just need to extend their wife I don't work outside a thing like I think you can can you current wife IMO [TS]
00:46:14 ◼ ► chairman of the why find the big giant lobby but it seems like the sort of the exterior walls of the building. [TS]
00:46:20 ◼ ► or if you if I was like in line with my i Pod Touch could I get the wife I that's in there is the password as always [TS]
00:46:25 ◼ ► you know you get the password from someone you know is it you see and then get on the beery see why fine at work [TS]
00:46:36 ◼ ► but well they often will block big download files like always they always block the betas that that that they make the [TS]
00:46:43 ◼ ► blood has been down the river why fight because they don't want the wife a clogged up or they're going down [TS]
00:46:51 ◼ ► but I mean if you know someone who's going to be in there the easiest solution is to just have them down with [TS]
00:47:01 ◼ ► and there's always some place where you can find my file just because we don't live there and hotel with wife I sell [TS]
00:47:05 ◼ ► but it doesn't mean there's no why fine San Francisco like so I don't know someplace there has I mean the worst case I [TS]
00:47:14 ◼ ► and mooch off their connection could that you know there's always something you can do especially with all these [TS]
00:47:22 ◼ ► and I was going to same thing Marco said that I know a lot of people who have gone in many past years both this year [TS]
00:47:27 ◼ ► and last year we just chose not even trying to buy a ticket because they figure the value they're going to get for [TS]
00:47:40 ◼ ► and they're like well I'll see that person outside the conference I don't need to be in the conference to go talk to [TS]
00:47:45 ◼ ► that guy because I don't like how all the time and I'm going to talk to him in person [TS]
00:47:48 ◼ ► and doesn't have to be at the beach every see the videos being moved up it is a big win. [TS]
00:47:54 ◼ ► and the tech talks are also a big win because what you get out of W.B.C. Is like the M. [TS]
00:48:00 ◼ ► The ration disturbing that everybody who's raised a developer in a timely manner covers that interaction with Apple [TS]
00:48:08 ◼ ► and I think that's the part that's most difficult to scale because for every moment those Apple people are talking to [TS]
00:48:12 ◼ ► developers they're not doing whatever it is that they're supposed to do in the drop is a lot of times people give these [TS]
00:48:17 ◼ ► presentations are like you know the lead architect for the whatever system is going to go up there [TS]
00:48:27 ◼ ► Guy who just ten generally knows about the topic like these are subject matter experts so you can have that. [TS]
00:48:32 ◼ ► Touring the country for a year telling you about core data because someone needs to go work on core data like they [TS]
00:48:42 ◼ ► and there's probably always going to be more demand for that face to face time with Apple employees because who [TS]
00:48:49 ◼ ► wouldn't want to like every single person or to think of any platform like I write Playstation games [TS]
00:48:53 ◼ ► and I would really love to talk to the person who works on the disk subsystem for the Playstation four. [TS]
00:49:01 ◼ ► Every Play Station developer can have face time with that guy he's a busy guy you've got stuff to do you know so that [TS]
00:49:06 ◼ ► tension low is be there and there's nothing about having a better conference or better conference schedule [TS]
00:49:10 ◼ ► or more confidence that will ever solve that tension. It just doesn't scale that way. [TS]
00:49:15 ◼ ► There are too many developers for any popular platform to each one of those people to have personal contact with the [TS]
00:49:21 ◼ ► engineer engineers who work on their resources and they're most interested in are what's most vexing them. [TS]
00:49:27 ◼ ► You know in some way having as much contact as we do is especially precious in the Apple community because Apple is so [TS]
00:49:33 ◼ ► close and tight lipped and like this may be your only chance to talk to these people in an official capacity [TS]
00:49:41 ◼ ► People inside Apple are more forthcoming in the environment to see you know talking about topics that they would [TS]
00:49:53 ◼ ► and telling you what the next holographic eyewash levitation device seem to be tell you like you know well that A.P.I. [TS]
00:50:00 ◼ ► and The story and I will give you some insight into how it works and let you work about it [TS]
00:50:04 ◼ ► but then maybe they would have sent over an email because unlike Eric Schmidt to understand that e-mails will leave a [TS]
00:50:10 ◼ ► and they should probably not do that like they're just more open so I think Apple is doing not the best it can [TS]
00:50:17 ◼ ► but it has made tremendous strides in the past several years with the tech talks in a time they release a video so I [TS]
00:50:22 ◼ ► give them full marks because they used to drive me nuts that I wouldn't I wouldn't be able to. [TS]
00:50:26 ◼ ► I couldn't go to every city because well I couldn't go I didn't want to go there you see because I didn't go travelling [TS]
00:50:35 ◼ ► but I did get the videos I mean like To my right here I have a big metal ten two thousand three hundred [TS]
00:50:40 ◼ ► and it's filled with D.V.D.'s that used to be the way I went to W D C N A You become a month later in this terrible so [TS]
00:50:51 ◼ ► but I would not scale this conference up any more the way I would try to scale up the How Do developers get face time [TS]
00:50:59 ◼ ► with Apple engineers as I would just have more concerts spare like there's more concerts more conferences spread around [TS]
00:51:06 ◼ ► like tech talk or maybe too Davide really sees because of the third thing I didn't talk about it. [TS]
00:51:09 ◼ ► Apple has chosen this time to announce their a lot of their big products but I think you could have another D.C. [TS]
00:51:18 ◼ ► Like maybe two of these a year in a different location maybe different content where you say there's not going to be an [TS]
00:51:23 ◼ ► announcement there's no keynote no pressure for Apple to come out with something big It's just like this is the the [TS]
00:51:30 ◼ ► but if you couldn't attend there you can attend this one it's a little bit bigger than a tech talk longer than I [TS]
00:51:40 ◼ ► And here's an idea what if they did a second one in China every year I was going to say for the app for the games [TS]
00:51:55 ◼ ► But again if you pay more money you can go to two sessions directly in a row without having a meal between.. [TS]
00:52:07 ◼ ► No I think that's what I really do think that you know they reach what's basically an equilibrium here where you know [TS]
00:52:14 ◼ ► the event changes very little year to year the ticketing I think will probably change very little year to year from now [TS]
00:52:20 ◼ ► on I think it's going to be like you know they've they figured out what works as best as it can for them [TS]
00:52:28 ◼ ► but mostly for them because you know like as John mentioned like you know if you like these you know libraries like [TS]
00:52:42 ◼ ► and so they can't really afford to have all these engineers taking weeks and weeks and weeks beforehand to make [TS]
00:52:52 ◼ ► and practice and refine these presentations and then you know and then a week not even being at the Apple campus [TS]
00:52:59 ◼ ► but a week staying up in San Francisco putting on the event answering questions going to labs [TS]
00:53:05 ◼ ► and everything like it's it's a pretty big drain on Apple to put this conference on so that I don't I just don't think [TS]
00:53:20 ◼ ► but overall big picture I don't think we're going to see big changes here because I don't know I think they reasonably [TS]
00:53:28 ◼ ► Him I should also mention really quickly that last year I believe it was somebody I don't know who was in charge came [TS]
00:53:41 ◼ ► And this year they're doing it again it's called all the cons and I believe it's free donations accepted. [TS]
00:53:49 ◼ ► And if I didn't have a ticket I would very strongly investigate that because I suspect it's going to be pretty good [TS]
00:54:00 ◼ ► And so that's a nice way for the community to kind of come together and fill in a gap. [TS]
00:54:03 ◼ ► Yeah I saw Will French tweeted during the giveaway day and ideas you just have to see. [TS]
00:54:13 ◼ ► Run Run apparel a conference one day behind the real one in Vegas at some giant thing that holds like thirty thousand [TS]
00:54:26 ◼ ► but I think this is you know now that Apple is making it is available I think organizing probably a large number of [TS]
00:54:35 ◼ ► small conference small like you know convert alternatives that that might be the way to go. [TS]
00:54:42 ◼ ► You know if you get to Big Apple probably have a problem with it but if you could have a bunch of small gatherings [TS]
00:54:50 ◼ ► and everything you know I don't think Apple's really going to go try to police all of them. So that's the way to go. [TS]
00:55:13 ◼ ► Yes Seriously I'm pretty sure my dad had ended up on back boys actually so I sort of do buy so Shushan clothes [TS]
00:55:20 ◼ ► and well most of us he's been tackling this is unlimited unthroned old simple online backup. [TS]
00:55:34 ◼ ► and there's not a lot they give in this really short trip here because you know they knew I would just talk forever [TS]
00:55:40 ◼ ► about my own stuff with it. If you don't have online backup you really you really need to get on this. [TS]
00:55:54 ◼ ► or replacement for a local backup for me it's a compliment to like my my favorite kind of backup is I have. [TS]
00:56:07 ◼ ► and then rose oak wrap actually still mean that when we get that back that Time Machine is great for that [TS]
00:56:13 ◼ ► but time machine you know I've had some issues with in the past a lot of people have it's it's not incredibly reliable [TS]
00:56:18 ◼ ► it works most of the time but it's not included reliable so it's good to have something else. [TS]
00:56:29 ◼ ► There's a whole class of problems like fires floods electrical issues power surges lightning strikes theft all sorts of [TS]
00:56:38 ◼ ► issues where if you just have your computer with an internal or an actual time machine drive [TS]
00:56:44 ◼ ► or a time machine drive plugged in that's always plodded next to it are in the same outlet as it or whatever else [TS]
00:56:52 ◼ ► and people problems that could happen there that will take out your computer and your backups at the same time. [TS]
00:57:00 ◼ ► and gives you if you had a little nicety So for instance that place is a pretty slick I.O.'s app that lets you access [TS]
00:57:06 ◼ ► and share your backed up files from anywhere that you are you can just logon to your back place account from your i [TS]
00:57:13 ◼ ► and you can access your files right there you can restore your files selectively so you know if you just need to pull [TS]
00:57:26 ◼ ► There's no add ons no gimmicks no extra charges for different services it's five dollars per computer per month that it [TS]
00:57:34 ◼ ► could even be less actually if you buy the annual or or bi annual summer biennial plans. [TS]
00:57:41 ◼ ► But five dollars per month per computer gets you unlimited unthroned old online back up it back please. [TS]
00:57:47 ◼ ► It's simple use the app is nice it's developed by X. Apple engineers it's very Apple friendly. [TS]
00:57:53 ◼ ► It's always a different way so as of now I'm running it for I think three years now I've never had a problem running on [TS]
00:58:04 ◼ ► Once again back with unlimited untrodden online backup for just five dollars per month. That leaves icon's last A.T.P. [TS]
00:58:12 ◼ ► So we should probably talk about this bleeding heart heart bleed thing. This is this is pretty uncool. [TS]
00:58:39 ◼ ► or that you know important stuff might have been taken during this window that this was open. [TS]
00:58:44 ◼ ► I think we're going to be seeing fallout from this for a long time. It's a big big problem. [TS]
00:59:01 ◼ ► Powering layer for lots of different software usually stuff that runs on Linux on Linux servers usually [TS]
00:59:08 ◼ ► or where we were hearing about and for instance if you have a website with a view to be S. [TS]
00:59:18 ◼ ► As your web server those use open as a cell on their back ends to power the S.S.L. [TS]
00:59:27 ◼ ► and the bug is actually introduced into the software in twenty eleven so even like I run sent to us on my servers which [TS]
00:59:41 ◼ ► So send us the reason why you sent to us is because extremely conservative and generally very secure by default. [TS]
00:59:48 ◼ ► You don't really have to be a security expert to make sense to us reasonably secure you can pretty much leverage the [TS]
01:00:02 ◼ ► and a few other a few other Linuxes that have you know roughly similar release schedules like the bug was so old that [TS]
01:00:10 ◼ ► it was actually in the versions that were shipping with the latest literature reasons from a few to a few of these [TS]
01:00:18 ◼ ► Center one of the uban two servers and a couple or so it was it was very on very widely used things so that's Helens [TS]
01:00:28 ◼ ► but was there and it was only very recently discovered and then it was basically patched immediately [TS]
01:00:32 ◼ ► but what the bug allowed is for a very maliciously formed T.L.'s request you were able to have the server respond back [TS]
01:00:47 ◼ ► Of arbitrary memory from its process space and if you kept making requests you get a different sixty four K. [TS]
01:00:55 ◼ ► and A not sure of the details beyond beyond that level of like exactly how you requested [TS]
01:01:00 ◼ ► or you know what exactly what memory you were given or why but it was a bad problem and blah blah. [TS]
01:01:10 ◼ ► Now the problem is what is in the memory space of the Open S.S.L. Process is the entire web server that's running. [TS]
01:01:18 ◼ ► So anything process local the web server traffic the like the the biggest problem is the S.S.L. [TS]
01:01:26 ◼ ► Keys like the private key that the web server is using on its end to encryption decryption the traffic the private key [TS]
01:01:33 ◼ ► could have been sent back in the response of the to the to the attacker to say hey here's a perfectly so the attacker [TS]
01:01:40 ◼ ► could Querrey a bunch of servers basically get all these random memory contents back and just dry a bunch of them [TS]
01:02:02 ◼ ► People are saying you know like there is you know you'd only be life if you get the private key if the server had [TS]
01:02:07 ◼ ► recently been restarted or something and you know again I don't know the details of all that [TS]
01:02:10 ◼ ► but the the part that matters is that you could get the private key back plus anything else that was going to the [TS]
01:02:16 ◼ ► observer process the time including the traffic and if if your application ran in the web server process [TS]
01:02:24 ◼ ► but I think I think Apache when it runs like my P.H.P. I think it does that fast C.G.I. [TS]
01:02:28 ◼ ► Should be immune that's a different process anyway. All that was potentially exposed. [TS]
01:02:34 ◼ ► And so an effect you know because it was in these conservative distributions that are often run on servers because [TS]
01:02:56 ◼ ► and I would say about about a quarter of them were actually vulnerable like the morning after it was discovered like we [TS]
01:03:02 ◼ ► had most of a day to fix things in the patches for all the Linuxes were already out the day before [TS]
01:03:09 ◼ ► and the next day they were still the major sites that were still vulnerable I mean it's [TS]
01:03:13 ◼ ► and it isn't just servers it might be appliances it might be if you have a load balancer [TS]
01:03:20 ◼ ► and that version of embedded Linux has has this flaw in it like there's all sorts of places this could be it could be [TS]
01:03:28 ◼ ► on your home right or it could be on your home NES anything that run them bedded Linux [TS]
01:03:35 ◼ ► and it's a pretty big deal so I don't think it's really hard to know how bad this will be so far [TS]
01:03:50 ◼ ► What we don't know is how much it was exploited before these holes are are being closed [TS]
01:04:00 ◼ ► Government and on this is actually pretty bad too because the usefulness of getting the private key. [TS]
01:04:07 ◼ ► Like at this point is not that useful unless you have a big gigantic catalog of intercepts of encrypted traffic from [TS]
01:04:13 ◼ ► the past. Because if you have that in theory if you get the private key in that private key was the one that was used. [TS]
01:04:19 ◼ ► Previously you had these encrypted intercepts of sort of data going flying by that was useless to you [TS]
01:04:24 ◼ ► but suddenly potentially becomes useful to you because I know I've got the private keys now I can go back [TS]
01:04:31 ◼ ► And again this this exploit has been out there for a long time so maybe they were integrating it in real time during [TS]
01:04:36 ◼ ► but the only kind of party that's likely to have historical encrypted intercepts is like oh that sounds like something [TS]
01:04:44 ◼ ► but the other angle on this is that the other thing is likely to be in memory is post stated from the last post you [TS]
01:04:54 ◼ ► and so a lot of people did like let me just run this against yahoo dot com like their mail thing for a couple minutes [TS]
01:04:59 ◼ ► and you just see people's passwords like crazy because they're you know these crazy strings like in memory query string [TS]
01:05:04 ◼ ► clearly identifiable as like password equals plaintext password because that was sent in the post data as part of an [TS]
01:05:14 ◼ ► And although the private key may move away from the memory that is the acceptable. [TS]
01:05:21 ◼ ► And what is basically means is that everyone should change every password in every single service they've ever you like [TS]
01:05:30 ◼ ► Basically catalog every service that you have a log in for over they all have unique passwords. [TS]
01:05:41 ◼ ► and make sure by the way the place they send you to change your password is the same your reality check before [TS]
01:05:46 ◼ ► but sometimes they send you to a different site to change your password bottom line is all their passwords [TS]
01:05:50 ◼ ► and every one of our services could now be compromised like that is not not an exaggeration of like that is a plausible [TS]
01:06:00 ◼ ► Well someone has your password now on it so you should probably change your password [TS]
01:06:04 ◼ ► and you know for example like this are affecting you know was vulnerable to this for a short period of time as well. [TS]
01:06:17 ◼ ► and not just that you don't actually know whether a site that has close a vulnerability whether they're still using the [TS]
01:06:25 ◼ ► or not because you can regenerate it if I mean well I guess you could you could if you were a real nerd you could [TS]
01:06:31 ◼ ► This I'm looking at the search you know details but what you really have to do as a site operator [TS]
01:06:44 ◼ ► and regenerate yourself a ticket from an brand new private key you can even use the same signing request [TS]
01:06:52 ◼ ► People usually really think you have to do a completely new private key because that could have been compromised [TS]
01:06:57 ◼ ► and I bet a lot of sites just close a vulnerability and haven't replaced their shirts [TS]
01:07:09 ◼ ► So there is this actually this could be the repercussions from this could go on for a while they were saying in that is [TS]
01:07:16 ◼ ► that there is a question so out there I don't know the answer to as to which software [TS]
01:07:29 ◼ ► and even the key chain like people are tracking like what is my default chrome configured to check for a certificate [TS]
01:07:36 ◼ ► and check maybe it is maybe it isn't if it isn't is it because you change it that way was because that was the default. [TS]
01:07:40 ◼ ► Same thing with an apple key chain is a thing about checking for Certificate revocation if the client software doesn't [TS]
01:07:47 ◼ ► check to see if a certificate has been revoked then you're basically open to men in the middle attacks by someone who [TS]
01:07:53 ◼ ► exploited you know got the private key for a certificate that you know and that web site did all the right things [TS]
01:07:58 ◼ ► and got a totally innocent of it. With a totally new key and everything is brand new. [TS]
01:08:04 ◼ ► and your client software doesn't check whether the certificate you're dealing with is very broke they can still man in [TS]
01:08:11 ◼ ► and you couldn't so many ramification of the this is why I'm saying like I don't think that we have fully seen [TS]
01:08:18 ◼ ► or realized what this is going to cause yet because OK So yes so far you know people who are on the ball have have [TS]
01:08:26 ◼ ► almost all patched by now and hopefully they're reissuing their stuff gets and keys. [TS]
01:08:37 ◼ ► and if you know Suppose suppose the N.S.A. or Other creepy government agency supposed they didn't know about this. [TS]
01:08:47 ◼ ► and this is one of the reasons why what they do is so destructive to society because security works best [TS]
01:08:56 ◼ ► when everyone shares their research. If you have these like little fiefdoms of like secrecy like the N.S.A. [TS]
01:09:05 ◼ ► and tons of really advanced people working on really events things basically trying to find holes like this obviously [TS]
01:09:17 ◼ ► If when they find a vulnerability they get it fixed they publish it and they you know work to make a patch [TS]
01:09:26 ◼ ► You know in in the accepted ways in the security community but they don't do that. [TS]
01:09:49 ◼ ► and me as a human being I mean it's it's so destructive for them to have those resources at their disposal [TS]
01:10:00 ◼ ► To work together to make more secure systems because Morsi has the systems actually hurt their efforts to spy on US [TS]
01:10:10 ◼ ► but that's that annoys the crap out of me that they might have known about this but we have no way to know [TS]
01:10:16 ◼ ► and they could have been exploiting it forever now regardless of whether they knew better already. [TS]
01:10:20 ◼ ► They sure as hell know about it now. So anything that you know any any thing the N.S.A. [TS]
01:10:33 ◼ ► or Anything else they now have a very good chance of being able to intercept that traffic as we know they're able to [TS]
01:10:38 ◼ ► intercept traffic through various points on the Internet various data centers I.S.P. [TS]
01:10:55 ◼ ► And that's pretty bad I mean before they could do it through other weaknesses now they can do it with the private key [TS]
01:11:02 ◼ ► as long as they you know as long as they can they can get it now through this whole ability [TS]
01:11:07 ◼ ► or they already have gotten it so that I think is one of the reasons why this is so so bad is because now you know it's [TS]
01:11:14 ◼ ► find out that most of the big sites patched already and are going to do it are going to do their their cues correctly. [TS]
01:11:20 ◼ ► But there's going to be so many smaller sites hardware vendors you know embedded systems developers so many people who [TS]
01:11:35 ◼ ► and it's not as super obscure as you by I think it is like it's not some kind of exploit where some carefully crafted [TS]
01:11:44 ◼ ► and Chipset causes something to trigger some bug in the way it's not like that type of thing it is entirely [TS]
01:11:49 ◼ ► straightforward from what I saw on the site I was explaining it's the old story of you know you got some kind of packet [TS]
01:12:02 ◼ ► and using it as an argument to the meme copy command to say OK well they sent me a packet it said you know my [TS]
01:12:09 ◼ ► information is in the next sixteen bit value my information is in the next bite and and bites [TS]
01:12:15 ◼ ► and you know do a meme copy from the thing into those areas basically you're taking you're letting users apply data [TS]
01:12:25 ◼ ► and you cross it is it over for good like this make that number all ones and then you read sixty five K. [TS]
01:12:36 ◼ ► You can look at the code and say you're taking a number that came from the Internet [TS]
01:12:45 ◼ ► Yeah it's but it's like it's not it's not obfuscated in any kind of way you can you can look at the variable [TS]
01:12:54 ◼ ► and here you're using that number two how much remember you're going to read that seems ill advised like it is nothing [TS]
01:13:04 ◼ ► This gets me of course back to my you know Copeland twenty ten thing is if you had a memory safe language like a lot of [TS]
01:13:10 ◼ ► people ranting about this is like look humans are never going to be able to write secure software if you have arbitrary [TS]
01:13:17 ◼ ► access to memory even if it's arbitrary just arbitrary just your own memory space because like it doesn't make any [TS]
01:13:23 ◼ ► sense it's not it's not a buffer kind of it's not like if you had it done in a memory safe language you wouldn't be [TS]
01:13:35 ◼ ► There's no meme copy command that just says you just give me a starting address and a length and I will just read [TS]
01:13:39 ◼ ► or write that memory and I don't care what Senator what's there I'll just go run right over it. [TS]
01:13:43 ◼ ► That doesn't exist in memory safe languages so a lot of the people in the security community like we need to get the [TS]
01:13:50 ◼ ► base infrastructure that we do our security stuff in off of languages to give your richer access to process memory [TS]
01:13:56 ◼ ► because we're never going to be perfect like it's impossible to say how does one do that. [TS]
01:14:00 ◼ ► We all know not to do that or how long to the sit in code open source code how long it has been there [TS]
01:14:04 ◼ ► and who knows how many of these things are in the closed source code out there it's like we're just not capable of [TS]
01:14:10 ◼ ► writing programs that are secure in languages that have this feature on the wall I think it is proving it to ourselves [TS]
01:14:17 ◼ ► and what do we need to do you know we can we can get rid of an entire class of problems not all problems [TS]
01:14:22 ◼ ► but we know this is definitely a big class of problems that a lot of security exploits. [TS]
01:14:36 ◼ ► One of the thing too is that this was a bug in the heart beat feature of T.L.'s or protocol or method [TS]
01:14:54 ◼ ► and many of the patches to initially fix it quickly while everyone figure out you know. [TS]
01:15:11 ◼ ► Obviously this rarely used feature was going to get a lot less attention from researchers because you know it didn't [TS]
01:15:21 ◼ ► and this is why this bug was existed for like three years if anyone figured it out. [TS]
01:15:26 ◼ ► You know what this this should inform decisions about you know why should Apache or engine X. [TS]
01:15:42 ◼ ► You know this should really impact the default choices that library and application and server vendors make [TS]
01:15:51 ◼ ► and maybe it maybe it's time you know like one of the ways that you can make an S.S.L. [TS]
01:16:04 ◼ ► and one of the ways you can do that would be to like cut off if you kind of support for I E six [TS]
01:16:15 ◼ ► If you cut off support by default you can make security better for everyone basically by requiring higher standards for [TS]
01:16:26 ◼ ► But it requires cutting off support for really really all things which I guess you talk about X.P. [TS]
01:16:31 ◼ ► If you want to but you know that that's been a culture in the Apple world for a while. [TS]
01:16:38 ◼ ► Yeah you know it will be tough supporters I mean it's three years old because I was a little nuff doesn't matter. [TS]
01:16:46 ◼ ► and obviously they have a more conservative because you know the value system is with the different requirements [TS]
01:16:53 ◼ ► but I think they can take some value out of that like it's it's probably not worth enabling something at all that is [TS]
01:17:04 ◼ ► That could be an avenue for attack easier solution for this in that we just need to revisit the specs are they the [TS]
01:17:13 ◼ ► or there are protocols that we use on a regular basis to trim out the features that are in use because like this tons [TS]
01:17:19 ◼ ► of features that H.T.T.P. That but it's the common browsers and server software don't support them. [TS]
01:17:28 ◼ ► and after a couple of years that are a decade of that it's like looking nobody uses this feature of this protocol. [TS]
01:17:33 ◼ ► Make next revision of this protocol remove that feature because people keep the feature like I know I have to be [TS]
01:17:40 ◼ ► I support all the features but if nobody ever used that feature just sits over there festering [TS]
01:17:46 ◼ ► but corrects posters like it's not use an ever increasing fact it's almost never used so we support it because [TS]
01:17:50 ◼ ► technically part of the protocol and if we want to be compliant and get our server cation [TS]
01:18:00 ◼ ► Well use that people just don't do that anymore like even the spec is also it's a little terrorism there from the you [TS]
01:18:06 ◼ ► know they just don't get used to the common practice that you could cut out headers formats for a start you know old H [TS]
01:18:12 ◼ ► T V one point no feature is like there I think you can make I mean they're already are working [TS]
01:18:20 ◼ ► and that hopefully lets people finally drop that code that wasn't being run that was possibly riddled with bugs. [TS]
01:18:35 ◼ ► I totally missed the dropbox story I saw I saw the carousel thing is that is that is are you talking about. [TS]
01:18:40 ◼ ► That is part of what I'm talking about so they announced a few things firstly they announce the Congolese a race is now [TS]
01:18:46 ◼ ► on the board and I'm not joking. I saw that as weather and I thought it was a joke. [TS]
01:18:55 ◼ ► and I guess I read the summary I don't recall where my down Tech Crunch thanks to Panzer but anyways. [TS]
01:19:02 ◼ ► Somebody theorized Well it's to get them better international relations which I guess because I don't know in what [TS]
01:19:17 ◼ ► Well I mean first of all keep in mind Al Gore was an apple's boardroom. I don't know if he still is but he was. [TS]
01:19:23 ◼ ► And second of all the president for like one of the politicians to be on tech companies boards for some reason that's a [TS]
01:19:31 ◼ ► good point but you know and we're pro all of us are over the work people are all talk about this but drop boxes. [TS]
01:19:39 ◼ ► Biggest competition is Box dot net which has a very very strong position in the enterprise but not [TS]
01:19:48 ◼ ► and not a very strong position in the consumer world that I think is and it's obviously [TS]
01:19:54 ◼ ► but that's the universe of Dropbox where Dropbox has huge presence among consumers. [TS]
01:20:06 ◼ ► and not supported because it's not it's actually pretty funny like in the business world. [TS]
01:20:10 ◼ ► They use Dropbox constantly which usually is violating their I keep policies as the file store and somewhere else [TS]
01:20:28 ◼ ► and so Dropbox like it solves such a common so many common problems so well that you know similar to how the i Phone [TS]
01:20:37 ◼ ► kind of broke in the enterprise from the ground up. That's what Dropbox has been doing. [TS]
01:20:41 ◼ ► Box dot net has been contacting the opposite problem which is trying to be enterprise friendly as as much as possible [TS]
01:20:48 ◼ ► and trying trying to get in from the top side and they've been pretty good job of that [TS]
01:20:52 ◼ ► and so Dropbox I think with you know with a lot of their moves towards business stuff [TS]
01:20:57 ◼ ► and maybe kind of these arise is more about you know reaching that community look better the role of big business an [TS]
01:21:10 ◼ ► but Dropbox probably is reaching for that world as much as they can first of all to defend against Boston at becoming [TS]
01:21:25 ◼ ► If you can get into it I don't think drawbacks of anything to fear from box reaching into the consumer space let me [TS]
01:21:42 ◼ ► and Bach spends a tremendous amount of money on like getting into the enterprise on sales and marketing huge amounts. [TS]
01:21:55 ◼ ► It's never a good sign when you're spending just tremendous amounts of money to try to grow rapidly. [TS]
01:22:02 ◼ ► but the product itself is not is going to drop box. My question about Condi Rice is who came who came to whom K.Z. [TS]
01:22:13 ◼ ► Did she approach the company because you know she's out of her you know government job [TS]
01:22:17 ◼ ► and she's just looking like you know be on boards or like begetting invest in something [TS]
01:22:23 ◼ ► when they leave one career where that was her high profile like I'm going to become a venture capitalist I'm going to [TS]
01:22:28 ◼ ► get in technology or whatever and they just got to go that way or did they seek her out [TS]
01:22:32 ◼ ► and saying we need someone with government ties because you know people with those kind of connections in government [TS]
01:22:40 ◼ ► or whatever that is like who it would be great to have you on the board you have these connections we think who can [TS]
01:22:46 ◼ ► help us in our business. Ever is wigged out about like she's a back history defend the N.S.A. [TS]
01:22:52 ◼ ► and Her whole role in the Bush administration on the Iraq war and now our data is going to be moved by the N.S.A. [TS]
01:22:58 ◼ ► and It's like I don't think her being there makes your data any more or less likely to be seen by the N.S.A. [TS]
01:23:05 ◼ ► Once they don't draw back they probably already have all of it feel any better or worse [TS]
01:23:18 ◼ ► and He used any kingdom I don't think she has the kind of access I think she's merely there to provide that private [TS]
01:23:24 ◼ ► connections that she has in the government world and I think that's mostly a non-story. [TS]
01:23:30 ◼ ► Really wanted some sort of into Dropbox he think they would use it as an obvious aroud is kind Lisa Rice joining the [TS]
01:23:39 ◼ ► Now they just took us three of us were drawbacks but all stayed and they had everything [TS]
01:23:43 ◼ ► and I'm sure they already have access to every bite of data in a three if they want to. [TS]
01:23:47 ◼ ► Fair point the other thing they did was they announced a new app I guess you could and it's an app called Carousel [TS]
01:24:02 ◼ ► It's like some folks here in Richmond that Marco you know mobile locks they already had an Instagram app for ten called [TS]
01:24:21 ◼ ► Funny how that is I did not really sells a trade module that's exciting. They might be really wealthy soon anyway. [TS]
01:24:28 ◼ ► But be that as it may it's so it's it's sort of kind of but not really at all in ever Pixy sort of thing for Dropbox [TS]
01:24:38 ◼ ► and it was funny because the first run experience for me went from really really cool to kind of terrible immediately [TS]
01:24:57 ◼ ► and the way they had done this one is there were a series of photos on the bottom of the screen kind of just strewn all [TS]
01:25:07 ◼ ► over the place and as you swipe up words those photos align themselves into an ever pick style like very [TS]
01:25:17 ◼ ► So it's kind of implying Oh we're going to organize all your photos I just thought it was really well done. [TS]
01:25:22 ◼ ► So after they did that my options were a checkbox should've written written down what it read [TS]
01:25:30 ◼ ► but it was something like backup all my photos to Dropbox and it was a check box and a button that said get started [TS]
01:25:39 ◼ ► So I don't necessarily want all of my i Phone pictures going to my Dropbox and thus I did not write I wish it's a son [TS]
01:25:51 ◼ ► Q Bradley chamber so anyway so I I didn't want to check the checkbox and I hit the tap the sign in button and then it. [TS]
01:26:00 ◼ ► Did a little expand contract to the checkbox basically implying the only way that I can carry on is to go ahead [TS]
01:26:08 ◼ ► and say All right back up all my pictures to Dropbox I did the exact same thing as you uncheck the checkbox I tried to [TS]
01:26:13 ◼ ► get the new I realized no I can't use this application unless I let it do that thing that it wants to do which already [TS]
01:26:26 ◼ ► when I do it's because I know in my Dropbox situation is like in like the camera feature I had enabled for a little [TS]
01:26:33 ◼ ► but like I know if I did that I know how many pictures are on my i Phone I don't know many of us pictures are not in my [TS]
01:26:39 ◼ ► Dropbox pretty much all of them checking that box was going to add gigabytes of data to my Dropbox and I'm almost all. [TS]
01:26:50 ◼ ► or was your will be uploading all my photos to my Dropbox So you're presented with what looks sort of like the camera [TS]
01:26:58 ◼ ► Including with the grouping that I believe in or just I was seven there whenever they introduced it so by location [TS]
01:27:06 ◼ ► and on the bottom they have like a old school radio don't actually know what it looks like it looks like the [TS]
01:27:11 ◼ ► speedometer from an old ozone deal where you have like all the tick marks across the bottom [TS]
01:27:15 ◼ ► and then like a little needle. So it's like a horizontal speedometer you know what I'm talking about. [TS]
01:27:19 ◼ ► Totally you know anyways so that's like your date picker thing and what you can do is you can select an entire event [TS]
01:27:31 ◼ ► or they imply that they're going to share them is really nifty like ever pics looking kind of way so I thought well let [TS]
01:27:38 ◼ ► me test this out I want to test this out with myself so I says I shared from my Dropbox account which is that which is [TS]
01:27:52 ◼ ► and then it says Casey Liss has shared seven hundred photos and videos with you on Carousel [TS]
01:28:00 ◼ ► It shows some of them what is a snob I know of them and I go on my computer to you know click on these pictures [TS]
01:28:11 ◼ ► and basically it says tough melodies get the app so there's no web component whatsoever [TS]
01:28:19 ◼ ► and I bet if you if you have the app those pictures would be added to your Dropbox counting towards your quota despite [TS]
01:28:25 ◼ ► the fact that I drop boxes content addressable storage in those photos are not stored more than once which drives me [TS]
01:28:41 ◼ ► and so now I'm probably going to leave it to some sort on talking about it I don't know who has so few pictures that [TS]
01:28:46 ◼ ► they can afford to host them on Dropbox because as we point out many times the transfer at Dropbox mass storage is very [TS]
01:28:57 ◼ ► That's a tremendous amount of money forget about the freakout freakout is enough pictures for you to like take pictures [TS]
01:29:05 ◼ ► and take pictures of your children as they grow over the years you're spending like a huge amount of money per month in [TS]
01:29:12 ◼ ► Dropbox fees if this is your solution to cameras like people presenting it as an ever picks like solution. [TS]
01:29:18 ◼ ► It's just not financially feasible or smart to pay that much money. Stories are in my my photo library. [TS]
01:29:26 ◼ ► when my son was born he's nine years old as I've nine years little photos they're currently in a five hundred gig drive. [TS]
01:29:31 ◼ ► Right how much would it cost for me to get five hundred gigs of storage on Dropbox and pay that month after month [TS]
01:29:38 ◼ ► and it's just going to grow I meant deleting their baby pictures or they get older. [TS]
01:29:43 ◼ ► and I keep getting keep getting cameras that you know take a larger images I'm not I'm shooting RAW is just a peg right. [TS]
01:29:49 ◼ ► I don't think this is a tenable solution for photo storage units and it works so nicely [TS]
01:29:55 ◼ ► and easily that it's almost like a trap like I mean I can see why Dropbox likes it like you know people get a free [TS]
01:30:00 ◼ ► Dr act like it's great every picture taken my phone is here I can share with my friends than ever at the start of the [TS]
01:30:07 ◼ ► and then you get your next argument oh I get to pay for the next year in a certain point you just start getting angry [TS]
01:30:11 ◼ ► bitter Dropbox like Apple with the free i Cloud stuff that's just not enough storage to back up your entire device like [TS]
01:30:17 ◼ ► it's worse it's worse than if they just charge you a fair price up front for what they want to do [TS]
01:30:21 ◼ ► and I don't think Dropbox is economical for any mass storage like this like if you ask me what do you keep in your [TS]
01:30:35 ◼ ► All my anything if not all year it's not all your anything I mean it's probably not even all those people text [TS]
01:30:42 ◼ ► but I think this is not a good solution for the photo problem I think it's a great way to get more people to hit the [TS]
01:30:49 ◼ ► drop box stores on its way to paid accounts which is probably why Dropbox like yeah. [TS]
01:30:54 ◼ ► So it's basically yet another photo sharing unthinking solution that is almost but not useful. [TS]
01:31:02 ◼ ► and the other thing is the one place that I think you could potentially Shine is a you know John you have your family [TS]
01:31:16 ◼ ► and everyone wants to share each pictures with each other so potentially you could use carousel in order to do that [TS]
01:31:23 ◼ ► but in my experience I've been happy although not overjoyed with i Cloud photo album sharing whatever it's called [TS]
01:31:33 ◼ ► and that works sufficiently well as long as you're not sharing it could Julian pictures [TS]
01:31:40 ◼ ► but for just an you know a handful of really good ones that you know everyone in the family took you can make a shared [TS]
01:31:53 ◼ ► They're for sharing what you always want is you don't want you don't want to impose on the people that you want to [TS]
01:32:00 ◼ ► As with which basically means that no matter what other cool features you're sharing as there has to be some way with [TS]
01:32:05 ◼ ► some person with a web browser to see your things no matter what else is like it may be cooler in the app maybe you [TS]
01:32:14 ◼ ► or whatever there has to be a web way to do it which is you know you have to be able to send someone a euro they have [TS]
01:32:19 ◼ ► to be able to tap that your eloquent that you're aware of they are and see pictures not install [TS]
01:32:25 ◼ ► Not sign up for i Cloud they need to see pictures of you know the magic of Facebook it's like the bottom line is [TS]
01:32:30 ◼ ► there's a Web site called Facebook you can go there you can see pictures that some people share because we just want to [TS]
01:32:35 ◼ ► see pictures we don't want to do any of the stuff so I think it's great to be held as integration fact photo stream [TS]
01:32:43 ◼ ► and if they're on there I was devised a little notification guns and they swipe it [TS]
01:32:50 ◼ ► and I was that I thought an OK first step go to the Apple store like it's not going to happen you need to have a web [TS]
01:32:58 ◼ ► and that's not the case for Dropbox seems especially terrible because like you can make Public Links from like things [TS]
01:33:09 ◼ ► but that seems like an obvious gap in their functionality even if we know the storage limits. [TS]
01:33:19 ◼ ► Give it one tremendous me there was one other relevant thing yesterday I believe that a deal be announced light room [TS]
01:33:33 ◼ ► but a month ago so obviously I'm a little bit biased because they think I'm special not to put me in the beta so you [TS]
01:33:44 ◼ ► You know their their first attempt which was originally called Carousel was Adobe rebel [TS]
01:33:51 ◼ ► and rebel was like like a sinking sharing kind of collaboration editing kind of service for photos I think are still [TS]
01:34:05 ◼ ► and a sync service so now you could you can use white room to sync between your computer and and i Pad sort of [TS]
01:34:21 ◼ ► It's it's obviously designed much more to be more like you know working on working on a project in Lightroom on the go [TS]
01:34:33 ◼ ► and then you might work on your i Pad a little bit then you come back your computer and your editor there whatever. [TS]
01:34:38 ◼ ► It's not really about your whole library because one of the biggest limitations of it is that first of all the [TS]
01:34:44 ◼ ► interfaces and the infrastructure of the app or clearly not designed to have tons and tons thousands [TS]
01:34:52 ◼ ► But the biggest problem is you can't sync a smart collection which is like their version of a smart playlist you can [TS]
01:35:01 ◼ ► You can only think like basically you know folders that you have to manually move photos made on the photos into so [TS]
01:35:11 ◼ ► it's not particularly useful because you have to like manually select every photo that you want to be available for [TS]
01:35:17 ◼ ► sinking in Lightroom before set up on your i Pad which is kind of a fatal deal killer for me. [TS]
01:35:28 ◼ ► and share one that I'm not really sharing with photo sinking between your devices yet another option that kind of [TS]
01:35:38 ◼ ► Every time we talk about those people write and tell us the things that we've talked about [TS]
01:35:41 ◼ ► and again mention a few of them to someone just email before the show it's created flicker in case anyone still doesn't [TS]
01:35:51 ◼ ► and you get unlimited for a storage if you're grandfathered in with the fire broke out which I think I should have been [TS]
01:36:00 ◼ ► Do you drive from Google gives you also one terabyte of storage for ten dollars a month [TS]
01:36:04 ◼ ► and the person who tweeted this that's the same the same money run Dropbox if you one tenth the storage. [TS]
01:36:12 ◼ ► So there are many other more economical options to store to try to store sort of all your photos [TS]
01:36:17 ◼ ► and I think at this point one terabyte is probably enough if you're not a professional photographer for anybody who has [TS]
01:36:27 ◼ ► You know you start from like when you're if you start when your kids are born or if you start with her [TS]
01:36:31 ◼ ► when digital cameras were popular US But that's again this is going to go up people it's accumulate photos I mean not [TS]
01:36:37 ◼ ► but like renaming talk to people as an entire like how my feeling about a place which a place like this video is in [TS]
01:36:42 ◼ ► there too and it's not that I have a lot of videos but one or two videos in ten A.T.P. [TS]
01:36:50 ◼ ► and everything so yeah I mean the people who are sort of selling premium price storage like you know Dropbox [TS]
01:36:58 ◼ ► and Apple I guess but how much is a cost per gigabyte of stored data on their servers. [TS]
01:37:04 ◼ ► There is going to have to adjust their prices like things are going to you know storage will keep going up [TS]
01:37:09 ◼ ► and companies will try to not lower their prices in proportion to that to make their margins a girl over time [TS]
01:37:18 ◼ ► and the amount of visual data we drag around behind us and don't want to be specific with pictures [TS]
01:37:22 ◼ ► and videos I would imagine it just just keeps going up over time so we really need better solutions to this. [TS]
01:37:29 ◼ ► All right I think we're going to be all right thanks a lot two or three sponsors this week. Back please. [TS]
01:38:03 ◼ ► Today during her sister that the Iraqis have two pieces of salt one for each of you already. [TS]
01:38:46 ◼ ► So that's why I didn't go in the fault section there's a fault for other podcasts. [TS]
01:38:52 ◼ ► Of course one is for Marco So you're tweeting and you are saying that in most of your errors [TS]
01:38:57 ◼ ► and your programs are from exceptions and bad A.P.I. Calls are not from site fault. [TS]
01:39:02 ◼ ► No we're going to get into this just like I don't know I mean that's your experience understanding what my experience [TS]
01:39:07 ◼ ► but what I want I want to do with double check my experience because it sure seems like all my crashes are due to bad [TS]
01:39:14 ◼ ► So I just went through my crash logs which is you know which I don't think I've deleted scenes like ten point like [TS]
01:39:37 ◼ ► My my theory is that over time the percentage of these things that are that are you know better access [TS]
01:39:42 ◼ ► or sites all of these things is going down over time because they do a regression analysis. [TS]
01:39:50 ◼ ► Yeah well because it like my theory is a lot more code that's in application the people are using in writing today. [TS]
01:39:56 ◼ ► And when you talking about new languages and the need for a new. Language or new A.P.I. [TS]
01:40:02 ◼ ► That specifically talking about the benefits really is for developing new software so I think like you know you might [TS]
01:40:11 ◼ ► or Microsoft Office where like that's that's probably there's probably a lot of old coats all around there. [TS]
01:40:17 ◼ ► I would say look at recent applications the things that have been written with modern A.B.I. [TS]
01:40:23 ◼ ► and recent crashes to any application so the reason I was looking at all the dough is because if you make a change now. [TS]
01:40:30 ◼ ► Eventually if you fast forward ten years after that change the steady state will be like this you know I mean like [TS]
01:40:38 ◼ ► and you will be into the like we are now with memory protection like we now pretty much previously. [TS]
01:40:43 ◼ ► Very few things American action now pretty much everything does your phone as in every rejection your your I watch is [TS]
01:40:49 ◼ ► And so you venture to get into that same steady state and I think what this my crash logs for the X. [TS]
01:40:59 ◼ ► and I don't have to see it like a graph of like Ode to the frequency go down like it's hard to tell it as one person I [TS]
01:41:04 ◼ ► was basically checking my own thinking maybe ten percent is it fifty percent seventy five makes me feel like my gut [TS]
01:41:10 ◼ ► feeling of every time I see a crash log and that feeling hasn't changed over time but like I can I can check [TS]
01:41:19 ◼ ► but it was a single person's date it could just be like I stop using the program is crashing all the time [TS]
01:41:25 ◼ ► or like how many what was the what was the recent encoding bug in the max tax frameworks that somebody likes and you [TS]
01:41:33 ◼ ► and I am with a bad go to Caribbean it would take I don't like I probably have like a dozen of those in the recent [TS]
01:41:40 ◼ ► and I don't think there is a better memory because I'm not sure probably was because it's probably like overflowing [TS]
01:41:47 ◼ ► Yeah but like you know my theory is basically that over time even even within the same language as libraries [TS]
01:42:00 ◼ ► But in traction like even like life when I wrote the very first version of the paper for i OS app I wrote all the S.Q. [TS]
01:42:06 ◼ ► Lite calls directly against the escalate C. A.P.I. and I know the press and I correctly I don't care. [TS]
01:42:19 ◼ ► Stuff where it stayed for the whole time I owned it and then when I started the magazine is Corday [TS]
01:42:29 ◼ ► Model so like I I was I've been moving up the stack as time went on because the benefit of writing directly against the [TS]
01:42:38 ◼ ► C. A.P.I. Was so small on modern hardware and it was so much more code and so much more low level C. [TS]
01:42:44 ◼ ► Code that had things like worrying about lines of buffers and everything which like I don't think overcast [TS]
01:42:53 ◼ ► but the vast majority of its code doesn't have to deal with like buffer lanes at all. [TS]
01:42:59 ◼ ► Like there's nowhere where I'm calling mem copy there's no way I'm calling you know any kind of like anything where [TS]
01:43:08 ◼ ► and I think I think it applies to so much software especially in the world that we're in with the Apple world [TS]
01:43:14 ◼ ► and libraries that are there are building up over time I think there's so much even even though we can do these things [TS]
01:43:25 ◼ ► or you know I use I had to add key chain support circuits or the log in token securely [TS]
01:43:31 ◼ ► and rather than writing I just got a really nice cocoa pod called black box that just does it for me [TS]
01:43:39 ◼ ► and wraps it all in this widely used well tested and pretty honestly pretty small simple A.P.I. [TS]
01:43:49 ◼ ► but Instead it has used this already well developed already proven wrapper for it so that's yet more sea buffer [TS]
01:43:55 ◼ ► checking her I didn't have to write well but some Someone had to write it or like it. [TS]
01:44:00 ◼ ► Moving a problem down like looking at sector our factor was are these crashes due to something bad that someone wrote. [TS]
01:44:05 ◼ ► Dealing with memory or do they merely trigger a bug because that you know who wrote F M.T.V. F.T.V. [TS]
01:44:10 ◼ ► Is written in a line with us for access to memory like at certain point you get down. [TS]
01:44:18 ◼ ► but like framework code that deals with like putting of the user stuff like you would want at a certain point you would [TS]
01:44:27 ◼ ► but also the framework you're calling because it's easy to to trigger a bug in the framework by you know doing [TS]
01:44:33 ◼ ► and You didn't mess up anything with pointers and you weren't doing anything with range checking [TS]
01:44:39 ◼ ► but it just so happens that the combination of perfectly benign information and your senators A.B.I. [TS]
01:44:58 ◼ ► but all the frameworks are calling cancer up until you go down to like OK well this point it is now appropriate that [TS]
01:45:04 ◼ ► and we were saying earlier in the show that life even open as a self like well it's got to be fast it's encryption we [TS]
01:45:16 ◼ ► and everything that they're trying to say like we will go you know we're trying to be memory safer or C. [TS]
01:45:23 ◼ ► Even if you're not going to jump all way up to something where you have complete memory safety [TS]
01:45:26 ◼ ► and I just I just one I did the check I figured it was worth bring up on the show it doesn't mean anything is just one [TS]
01:45:32 ◼ ► person's thing. Everyone can go look at the crash so I can try to figure it out themselves. [TS]
01:45:41 ◼ ► In your in your debug it was said that we're talking about we can only think we mentioned we're talking about [TS]
01:45:45 ◼ ► but we're talking about YOUR percent of people do you know so you kind of glossed over Ark saying it wasn't a big deal [TS]
01:45:55 ◼ ► Well it is a big deal I wrote all about it I think it was a good thing but for this particular issue. [TS]
01:46:05 ◼ ► I bet a lot of them are attempting to do something on an object that is then either whole they are partially [TS]
01:46:13 ◼ ► but it's still possible in an arc system to screw that up because of all the like oh are you calling it a C.F. [TS]
01:46:18 ◼ ► It's different and you got an A to things right when you're writing a block and you forgot to weaken that thing [TS]
01:46:22 ◼ ► and although you know like or you didn't realize you had a copy of that in the block [TS]
01:46:26 ◼ ► and you forgot to retain it for the block implicitly retains that thought you didn't have to retain it here [TS]
01:46:37 ◼ ► when I was Emmanuel retain relief you know we see where we thing was now arc is doing tons of regains releases Phormium [TS]
01:46:42 ◼ ► blocks and a complication if you think you don't have to worry about it you will get bitten [TS]
01:46:53 ◼ ► but in the failure mode is is much more likely to be a leak usually through retain cycle through not doing the weak self [TS]
01:47:03 ◼ ► Me too I don't know what is everyone else calling it it's just right there it's right in front of its wealth the ETS is [TS]
01:47:18 ◼ ► but it's like arc is a great example both like how much benefit we can get from automating some of this [TS]
01:47:23 ◼ ► and also how you're never going to get all the way there because like anyone who does lots of Arc code it's like in [TS]
01:47:32 ◼ ► but it's not the type of thing where you can tell a beginner you don't have to worry about anymore it's like in reality [TS]
01:47:39 ◼ ► when the time comes for you to develop this weird arc situation you're not going to what the hell is going on unless [TS]
01:47:45 ◼ ► and then once you have that foundational knowledge we can explain to you this obscure education what's really going on [TS]
01:47:51 ◼ ► because without that then it just becomes like doing you like a Visual Basic Basic programmer no offense to Visual [TS]
01:47:55 ◼ ► Basic programmers just flailing wildly ingoing like when I type this it works but now a day. [TS]
01:48:00 ◼ ► Isn't And I don't have a foundation to understand why you still have to understand retain release in order to release [TS]
01:48:06 ◼ ► arc just saves you a tremendous amount of typing it makes it so much easier to not you know it takes away a lot of [TS]
01:48:10 ◼ ► drudgery and makes things way so for most people but you're never going to get all the way there. [TS]
01:48:14 ◼ ► You're never going to get to. If it's like fault it's not your fault and that's that's what I'm trying to do. [TS]
01:48:20 ◼ ► So totally is just my my insertion in the tweet which I don't think we actually even said the beginning of this [TS]
01:48:28 ◼ ► or the majority at least of of crashes are bad memory accesses or through corruption or things like that [TS]
01:48:36 ◼ ► and my assertion is that in my experience I'm seeing that that's not really a problem. [TS]
01:48:42 ◼ ► Language has this I have to solve as much as you seem to think they do because the vast majority of the of the crashes [TS]
01:48:48 ◼ ► that I see in my abs and other apps that run on my stuff are things like assertion failures and I got exceptions. [TS]
01:48:54 ◼ ► Things that like every language has exceptions like every language has error conditions [TS]
01:49:04 ◼ ► Based one Make it is a new language that succeeds that you're still going to have exceptions that are uncaught to have [TS]
01:49:14 ◼ ► and the reason humans writer's assertions in languages with the free reign of memory is because they didn't put that [TS]
01:49:19 ◼ ► assertion there they know that six lines later you're going to scribble in our memory. [TS]
01:49:24 ◼ ► but if you have got to put the assertions there guess what you're scribbling all over memory. [TS]
01:49:27 ◼ ► And yes an end even in a high level language with memory protection you put a surgeon to make sure your sanity checking [TS]
01:49:32 ◼ ► but there's no danger that if I go I forgot to check that assertion to make sure this value is greater than [TS]
01:49:39 ◼ ► There's no chance that in subsequent lines a negative number will cause you to scribble all remembering [TS]
01:49:43 ◼ ► or send the contents of your web service process out as the response revealing your private key or anything like that. [TS]
01:49:50 ◼ ► Now before you skewer me on whatever you're about to skewer me on probably vinyl Where would one go to check one's [TS]
01:50:02 ◼ ► and along the left side were on the consulate you can find all the different directories that have the word crash [TS]
01:50:07 ◼ ► and slash library there until the slash library is like I don't read like some some of them are an application specific [TS]
01:50:16 ◼ ► and recursively grep through them for the various current access failure expected I might just look through them [TS]
01:50:23 ◼ ► and you'll know what the grab for it if I don't go to look at there is do I I would imagine that the error is that you [TS]
01:50:30 ◼ ► counter well developing app may be different in the areas I encounter when using apps [TS]
01:50:37 ◼ ► but it's worth checking I just wanted to grasp that distinction is important however [TS]
01:50:41 ◼ ► when you're talking about the need to make a new language I would say the helping developers during development avoid [TS]
01:50:50 ◼ ► things like we have memory errors often very hard to find and fix it helping avoid that might be more. [TS]
01:51:03 ◼ ► Millions of people use it all over the place would you rather have the openness is openable had something that happened [TS]
01:51:07 ◼ ► during the development or the something to help the people who had deployed the programming obviously you want both [TS]
01:51:14 ◼ ► but I would much rather have the developer suffer and have the end users not experience crashes than the reverse. [TS]
01:51:23 ◼ ► He got it he knows he knows what he did in the vinyl he knows what he did I just never saw it today [TS]
01:51:34 ◼ ► OK so I was on IRA talk with faith in Jason for second time which I am not at all going to gloat about how I was [TS]
01:51:43 ◼ ► invited back before you were invited back because I'm too much of a not all for that. [TS]
01:51:49 ◼ ► In any case I was invited on in the comedy of this is I didn't actually hear the episode until after I was on wherein [TS]
01:52:06 ◼ ► and she is correct that vinyl does indeed sound better on an appropriate stereo then a CD does this stop this stop [TS]
01:52:15 ◼ ► digging yourself. That's already gone it's already scientifically rock very good if I finish it. Finish your summary. [TS]
01:52:26 ◼ ► and forth though at the time I didn't know this when I recorded with them they went back and forth [TS]
01:52:30 ◼ ► and Jason actually summarized it really well after Faith was so far into the rage deep into that I was surprised he [TS]
01:52:38 ◼ ► didn't plop it in any case what Jason said was Oh you just feel like it's more full in complete sound in Faith said [TS]
01:52:45 ◼ ► yeah that's pretty much it. Obviously I'm heavily paraphrasing her it's all right. [TS]
01:52:50 ◼ ► So hold on so so what I had said was Hey Jason I didn't hear the background story all I saw was a few tweets fly by [TS]
01:52:59 ◼ ► between my cue and faith or faith and Jason and I wanted to weigh in somewhat ignorantly given the context [TS]
01:53:12 ◼ ► and a house with a father who has just a shed load of vinyl I would completely agree science be damned. [TS]
01:53:27 ◼ ► Maybe it's all my darn head but I don't care because I believe it in my heart that it sounds way better [TS]
01:53:34 ◼ ► All right so I have two cables to sell you over here are going to try to try to give a reasonable summary of this are [TS]
01:53:39 ◼ ► you guys going to attempt I think I mean first of all let me start by saying I'm not an audio expert [TS]
01:53:44 ◼ ► but I don't think you need to be an expert to get a handle on this topic I think that the main problems on the original [TS]
01:53:52 ◼ ► Was that as usual they didn't sort of define the boundaries of their discussion in their terms well enough that they [TS]
01:54:00 ◼ ► They were talking about the stupid Pono thing that we talked about of the high quality music from what is [TS]
01:54:08 ◼ ► and Jason asked her if you'd be interested as she said if I you know if I want to if I was after that it's like Oh [TS]
01:54:14 ◼ ► wouldn't you want us to listen to higher quality audio is like a high I want to higher quality audio just listen to [TS]
01:54:19 ◼ ► and I think there's a sort of a foundation as you can see how through the game of telephone you end up with that type [TS]
01:54:25 ◼ ► of opinion it devolved into like oh you think vinyl is better than this that the other thing there's many many factors [TS]
01:54:31 ◼ ► but I can start from like again I can get like I don't I can't get specifically technical about this you can look up [TS]
01:54:37 ◼ ► all the stuff that you want to mark are going to add later but here's here's I think I'm going to bottom line [TS]
01:54:43 ◼ ► When you when instruments make sound like when people play music live right and you capture that sound [TS]
01:54:54 ◼ ► and put it somewhere such you can get the most back from what you heard in that room like the actual sound of his [TS]
01:55:11 ◼ ► and Mark can confirm you want that is just a more less undisputable fact due to the limitations of the medium. Confirm. [TS]
01:55:17 ◼ ► So that's the problem with a gun and they were talking about vinyl CD of stuff like just ignore everything else [TS]
01:55:28 ◼ ► and put that sound back out in the world somehow if you want to capture that information. [TS]
01:55:33 ◼ ► Vinyl has limitations in terms of frequent frequencies that it can accurately reproduce [TS]
01:55:45 ◼ ► and do all the stuff you want to see what what kind of frequencies can vinyl reproduce and what are the limitations [TS]
01:55:49 ◼ ► and what is the top and then the bottom end and how well can it produce high for exams versus low frequency sounds [TS]
01:55:54 ◼ ► and and distortion this is even before you get into like every time you play a vinyl record you're damaging it [TS]
01:56:10 ◼ ► Now why why could normal good reasonable thinking people come to the conclusion that you know why did they think that [TS]
01:56:17 ◼ ► vinyl is the highest quality. You know if I want to listen to music with a higher quality than than M P three S. [TS]
01:56:23 ◼ ► or Cd's always goes in the vinyl why why did you come to that conclusion because there is much more to what music [TS]
01:56:29 ◼ ► sounds like than just how well it is the medium able to capture sound right and we've talked with some passion. [TS]
01:56:44 ◼ ► but like if you look at the way inform the way room slowly fills the entire thing the dynamic range between the quiet [TS]
01:56:53 ◼ ► when most vinyl was made so vinyl sounds quote unquote better so if you hear the same album on vinyl [TS]
01:57:09 ◼ ► So that's one reason the vinyl could sound better like legitimately really sound better because it was mastered [TS]
01:57:16 ◼ ► From what I've read since vinyl has a different frequency response than C.D.'s they would master it as if they were [TS]
01:57:24 ◼ ► or whatever frequencies of Binah would have trouble reproducing they would have to crank those up because they know a [TS]
01:57:29 ◼ ► lot of those who get muffled by the vinyl and they just take that same master and put on CD [TS]
01:57:32 ◼ ► and it would sound terrible because she didn't have those limitations I can reproduce the sound accurately in this its [TS]
01:57:38 ◼ ► a more linear range between them you don't have to say well this travels going how do you know his trouble whatever [TS]
01:57:46 ◼ ► when we're going to carve the little grooves into the vinyl disc of all sound good. [TS]
01:57:50 ◼ ► Again if you take the same album from the same master all the CD sounds terrible the vinyl sounds good it's because [TS]
01:57:55 ◼ ► vinyl is swallowing up half of the things that are there and it's you know the master was made. Your vinyl. [TS]
01:58:01 ◼ ► All these things can contribute to the idea that vinyl sounds better because in a particular album [TS]
01:58:09 ◼ ► or you may simply prefer that those frequencies be attenuated the way they are on vinyl. [TS]
01:58:15 ◼ ► So and what happens if you don't have all the background and all these handy gritty details. [TS]
01:58:21 ◼ ► Your experience your lived experience will be when I hear the song on and B three that sounds like crap [TS]
01:58:32 ◼ ► and over again in Austin in the hipster community as is accepted fact that vinyl is higher quality than CD and [TS]
01:58:38 ◼ ► when I see you can jump through like you jump from something that has a basis in reality all lead to a conclusion that [TS]
01:58:45 ◼ ► has no basis in reality in fact and you can't say vinyl is better than CD because it is not. [TS]
01:58:55 ◼ ► Well it's not where you're coming from I understand what you're saying and by and large I do agree with it [TS]
01:58:59 ◼ ► but it's more than just I think playing it off as a game of telephone for for both faith [TS]
01:59:04 ◼ ► and I is not really being fair because both of us have legitimately experienced really good setups in the homes in [TS]
01:59:14 ◼ ► which we lived at some point or another and in I don't know if I can speak for faith [TS]
01:59:19 ◼ ► but I know I have listened to a CD and then the exact same song from the exact same hour [TS]
01:59:24 ◼ ► but you don't know is exact the sort of thing you don't know with the same song you know it could've been mastered [TS]
01:59:33 ◼ ► or dispute what you had said about different mastering absolutely could be right about that. [TS]
01:59:38 ◼ ► But one way or another I can tell you that I've listened to C.D.'s and I've listened to vinyl and be at the mastering [TS]
01:59:43 ◼ ► or be at the medium and yes the medium is kind of inherently flawed in cracks in the hisses and the pops and whatnot [TS]
01:59:53 ◼ ► and in the things that it can in the things that it can reproduce there was sound in the room [TS]
02:00:05 ◼ ► and I haven't looked at any of the research because market would let me hear very well could be true. [TS]
02:00:15 ◼ ► You got into this on the show as well that you're trying to think of like things that sound reasonable to like oh well [TS]
02:00:26 ◼ ► Marco has a good video that you can see about it like I watched that the sampling like it's not here. [TS]
02:00:36 ◼ ► and taking say dozens of whatever if you don't if that perch you don't find that approach convincing although you [TS]
02:00:48 ◼ ► and you translate it to carving a little valley in plastic you are inherently taking an analog signal like it you know [TS]
02:00:59 ◼ ► but so you're recording directly into the grooves in the while you're taking something [TS]
02:01:03 ◼ ► and you're encoding that signal in a groove in plastic. What do you think has a better resolution. [TS]
02:01:10 ◼ ► Those samples and bits that you're taking or the variations you can make precisely in grooves in plastic. [TS]
02:01:16 ◼ ► Like Talk Talk about quantizing in like you know if you if you subscribe to a theory like oh it's inherently continuous [TS]
02:01:22 ◼ ► function you're sampling How can you ever reproduce there is no single That is B.S. [TS]
02:01:25 ◼ ► You totally can but think of what you're doing when you're making a groove in vinyl. [TS]
02:01:29 ◼ ► Do you think oh that can completely accurately encode this information because we can so precisely control how we wage [TS]
02:01:37 ◼ ► and that is vital to make this little valley I mean look at under a microscope is not a precise trail that's been drawn [TS]
02:01:43 ◼ ► there is nothing more precise than sixteen bit samples and forty four Gilberton No it is not [TS]
02:01:48 ◼ ► and that's borne out by what kind of frequencies you can get out of that let alone the variations in an individual [TS]
02:01:53 ◼ ► stamping or carving of vinyl it's it's insanity to think that vinyl as a medium is better then. [TS]
02:02:03 ◼ ► Here's here's how you make things sound good you listen on a really really good system which is usually systems that [TS]
02:02:14 ◼ ► are like you know really good inexpensive are usually only by upper middle class men in their fifty's [TS]
02:02:25 ◼ ► And these are middle class men in their fifty's and up probably listen to music from the sixty's and seventy's [TS]
02:02:34 ◼ ► and seventy's if you have a CD version of the same thing was probably one of the old crappy cd's that was mastered back [TS]
02:02:41 ◼ ► when cds were too young as drummers discussing and a lot of the masters were really bad [TS]
02:02:49 ◼ ► It's also possible that you were you know comparing it to things like M P three that were encoded in the late ninety's [TS]
02:03:00 ◼ ► and now they're really really good as always are factors now the way you make things sound good is you listen to well [TS]
02:03:09 ◼ ► and there's a good chance that old fifty year old men with you know a lot of money with big stereos they're probably [TS]
02:03:20 ◼ ► Honestly music that was probably recorded better was probably never going to music that was that was played with more [TS]
02:03:28 ◼ ► and less artificial tweaks to the sound less electronic instruments if any you know there's there was a lot more there [TS]
02:03:39 ◼ ► like of substance that you could detect on gets area you know compared to like the very artificial clean sound of [TS]
02:03:45 ◼ ► modern stuff. So they're listening to stuff that sounds better at higher resolution and higher detail. [TS]
02:03:53 ◼ ► and they're making an event out of listening there this is the most important part by far they're paying attention [TS]
02:03:58 ◼ ► when when you are told. This is why a B. X. Testing is so important when you are told. [TS]
02:04:14 ◼ ► and you want to say it's an attractive idea of the old the romantic the analog being superior to the new crazy things [TS]
02:04:21 ◼ ► the kids are doing these days. That's a very nice attractive idea people they want that to be true. [TS]
02:04:25 ◼ ► So you're being told going to sound better you're in an environment where it looks impressive you're probably in front [TS]
02:04:30 ◼ ► of an impressive looking stereo. And maybe it has some like old crazy things like tubes. [TS]
02:04:36 ◼ ► Or at least I mean hell record players themselves are you know pretty crazy analog things especially the really [TS]
02:04:42 ◼ ► advanced ones that are probably in these events that have like the electrically moving arm [TS]
02:04:49 ◼ ► It looks impressive the system looks impressive it looks exotic and old and romantic. [TS]
02:05:06 ◼ ► and you're trying to hear your you're paying attention to what it sounds like you're listening for details you're [TS]
02:05:13 ◼ ► and then you say oh my God I'm hearing details I've never heard before which is probably true [TS]
02:05:20 ◼ ► but it's not because of anything inherently awesome about any individual component of that necessarily to the exclusion [TS]
02:05:29 ◼ ► Your mentor says in the event you're making you're telling yourself to enjoy the event so you're enjoying the event [TS]
02:05:35 ◼ ► you're telling yourself it sounds good and the input you're getting from other factors like its appearance [TS]
02:05:41 ◼ ► or the setting or whatever people are telling you about all these symbols are telling you this will sound great. [TS]
02:05:51 ◼ ► And that's not to invalidate the experience because who cares if you're enjoying it and it sounds great [TS]
02:05:55 ◼ ► and it works like this if the work basically got all the money you spent like give it making you happy. Right then. [TS]
02:06:00 ◼ ► Then everything worked and another possibility is that people who have grown up with [TS]
02:06:06 ◼ ► or even if they haven't grown a bit like you may simply prefer the sound of an accurate reproduction of live music. [TS]
02:06:16 ◼ ► You may prefer that they're sort of an underlying noise to be underneath all that. [TS]
02:06:19 ◼ ► That may sound better to you is better is subjective like that may sound better to you like that's fine to say I like [TS]
02:06:26 ◼ ► the sound of vinyl better than CD because I like those things like it may be inaccurate because again you have to say [TS]
02:06:33 ◼ ► OK fine we'll get you the same stereo will take the same song master the same way you do controlled experiment play [TS]
02:06:42 ◼ ► If you can tell them to say which one you prefer because once you can tell you May so I prefer the vinyl one. [TS]
02:06:49 ◼ ► Where this goes wrong is when you say higher quality because I asked that you could say that subject a do [TS]
02:06:54 ◼ ► but like Hark why we're talk about audio it's like the definition I gave the beginning [TS]
02:06:58 ◼ ► when this music was played there was sound in the air. We want to take that sound put it somewhere and bring it back. [TS]
02:07:08 ◼ ► and CD winds over vinyl I mean that that's that's it like that to the foundation of this entire thing. [TS]
02:07:14 ◼ ► Everything else you can say is you may say you prefer one thing or the other one thing makes you happy [TS]
02:07:20 ◼ ► or find you prefer one thing of the over of the other you can still be challenged say OK I will give you a double blind [TS]
02:07:32 ◼ ► and then you've sort of punched a hole in your own kind of well I prefer that over the. [TS]
02:07:36 ◼ ► but whatever you wouldn't subject yourself to that test unless you're trying to ruin your fun. [TS]
02:07:40 ◼ ► If it makes you happy to listen to vinyl fine but where people go crazy about this [TS]
02:07:45 ◼ ► and where you start to get into all of audio file tell Terry is where you start really truly believing the vinyl is the [TS]
02:07:50 ◼ ► highest quality reproduction of music available it may be the best mastered version of that song available that may be [TS]
02:07:56 ◼ ► true and that's why I said like porno might be better because it'll get better mastered versions of it. [TS]
02:08:02 ◼ ► But that's where I'm going nuts over this thing is when you get into like oh it sounds fuller and richer [TS]
02:08:12 ◼ ► Nerds only you know everyone else just enjoy their music so maybe you could just look in the media like in the way you [TS]
02:08:20 ◼ ► but I guess don't go on podcast with you're going to try don't talk about vinyl of the CD I have the floor please. [TS]
02:08:26 ◼ ► You may or you too Don. Probably not but I doubt it. I'm stone sober and I'm so angry right now. [TS]
02:08:35 ◼ ► Firstly I should make it plain that when I came to the conclusion that vinyl was better and I cannot speak for faith [TS]
02:08:46 ◼ ► when I came to the conclusion the vinyl was better in the limited experience that I have it was because I was playing [TS]
02:08:54 ◼ ► One was Dave Matthews which Marcus McGraw you want but they are well recorded the first time [TS]
02:09:08 ◼ ► and the other was Soundgarden I forget the name of the album but it was the one with I played [TS]
02:09:16 ◼ ► or my dad played there's a vinyl or the CD and picked one of the songs and immediately played the other. [TS]
02:09:28 ◼ ► Yes I was predisposed are arguably predisposed to like one better than the others. [TS]
02:09:33 ◼ ► So yes from a purely scientific point of view you could say that this test was flawed. [TS]
02:09:39 ◼ ► Yes you could say that the dramatic difference that I heard which is exactly how I would describe it was all in my head. [TS]
02:09:51 ◼ ► Yeah in fact it's been shown that like in blind tests people overwhelmingly prefer an input that's like Point one. [TS]
02:10:08 ◼ ► So regardless of whether or not it's based in science I can tell you that I definitely heard a difference [TS]
02:10:18 ◼ ► and I'd definitely prefer preferred vinyl I will be the first to tell you that yes the medium is inherently flawed. [TS]
02:10:24 ◼ ► You're screwing it up every time you use it. You're gonna have to get over hisses and pops and crackles and whatnot. [TS]
02:10:30 ◼ ► Yes most of my father's record collection was bought in the fifty's sixty's and seventy's. [TS]
02:10:35 ◼ ► But yes he does have a record cleaner specifically designed to clean L.P.'s that he uses almost every time he plays a [TS]
02:10:43 ◼ ► record. Yes his CD player is so ridiculously out of control that it's actually what he calls it a transport right. [TS]
02:10:52 ◼ ► Yes Thank you it's a transport and it's a digital analog converter I believe uses tubes because at some point [TS]
02:11:04 ◼ ► Yes you could argue that all of this is just one placebo on top of another on top of another [TS]
02:11:09 ◼ ► but I think it was one I don't know which one of you that said it but one way or another. [TS]
02:11:16 ◼ ► and let's assume for the sake of conversation that I'm just completely full of it even if that's the case. [TS]
02:11:27 ◼ ► and finding alphabetically the particular LP you want removing it this humongous disk that's like a foot wide [TS]
02:11:35 ◼ ► or whatever it is removing it placing it on the cleaner putting the little solution on it having the little turntable [TS]
02:11:42 ◼ ► cleaner thing spin and vacuum up the solution as you shimmy it across the record moving that something else. [TS]
02:11:49 ◼ ► Don't you get me started about a party. All right so anyways move the record over to the turntable. [TS]
02:12:00 ◼ ► There it is the song you want to play starts and you're probably going to be wrong [TS]
02:12:04 ◼ ► but you can look at the little smooth ring not only aren't doing the work you can and I know and I know [TS]
02:12:13 ◼ ► All of this adds to the experience and I forgot to mention all the album art when that was still a thing [TS]
02:12:17 ◼ ► and still fricken mattered. All of that taking picking the record out of the out of the sleeve gingerly. [TS]
02:12:30 ◼ ► Don't forget chucking the disc of the base the what is that some right we didn't have a reference guide to throw in a [TS]
02:12:37 ◼ ► night I'm glad he has a quota for you Marco to sit here and tell me I need a B.X. Test and blah blah blah. [TS]
02:12:45 ◼ ► When's the last time you may be axed your coffee versus Starbucks. He didn't tell you you needed the A.B.A. [TS]
02:12:51 ◼ ► Test like all the stuff you satisfy no one is arguing against like the tea ceremony sort of thing you have going to [TS]
02:12:55 ◼ ► that like again I said whatever makes you happy then go for it like there's no reason to subject yourself to the [TS]
02:13:06 ◼ ► but you also then can't make claims like vinyl is the highest quality source of music available because in that sense [TS]
02:13:15 ◼ ► or things are vinyl they have more dynamic range in my preferred like you didn't say that you said vinyl and like it [TS]
02:13:22 ◼ ► when you stray off into well digital can't capture all the nuances because it's discrete instead of giving this like [TS]
02:13:34 ◼ ► when you say you really enjoy the ceremony of Dylan if I don't know who are you with me [TS]
02:13:37 ◼ ► when you say come on this is the Internet somebody will argue well I know but like they have a leg to stand on [TS]
02:13:49 ◼ ► when you go into like categorical you know scientific statements about capturing audio waveforms [TS]
02:13:56 ◼ ► and reproducing them and that's where it all goes off the rails and that's where I think like it. [TS]
02:14:00 ◼ ► In that kind of committee long enough where everyone reveres vinyl as the sort of thing to do. [TS]
02:14:03 ◼ ► Eventually it just becomes like everybody knows vinyl sounds better and it just becomes accepted wisdom [TS]
02:14:08 ◼ ► and that's not you so much more faith like it says we don't like in your circle of course vinyl sounds better than C. [TS]
02:14:14 ◼ ► Everybody knows that I think an obvious fact that came believe you're arguing with me about it [TS]
02:14:24 ◼ ► and again until eventually it becomes accepted within the vinyl is better than CD which is not a true statement in [TS]
02:14:31 ◼ ► and it just becomes like that that's why I like a game of telephone where it's like a generation of people who don't [TS]
02:14:36 ◼ ► know or care about the technical details and know they like the sound of vinyl better but they don't know why [TS]
02:14:43 ◼ ► See if you can take issue with the entire city of Austin believing the finals better as long as you put an asterisk at [TS]
02:14:50 ◼ ► and say accept things in the same thing with me because we have come to this conclusion from personal experience there [TS]
02:14:59 ◼ ► Every other person on the planet that claims line is better fine telephone no no because it's bigger than her initial [TS]
02:15:04 ◼ ► reaction was like well I would just listen to a CD on vinyl history out there like of course everybody knows that like [TS]
02:15:09 ◼ ► it wasn't a controversial statement when she first made it and I think that's why she was taken by surprise by like [TS]
02:15:17 ◼ ► but like that's what I'm glad I listened to the a little bit of a so if you haven't already I have I have sinned since [TS]
02:15:23 ◼ ► She threw it out there like as if it's like well everybody knows that in my circle so it's like if it wasn't that [TS]
02:15:27 ◼ ► wasn't a topic the topic wasn't buying over there things like well I would never buy the stupid triangular player [TS]
02:15:31 ◼ ► because of actually really cared about high quality music I just listened to it on vinyl and then Jason was like What. [TS]
02:15:40 ◼ ► and then she had to think about what I mean by that like if it's excepted wisdom in your circle of friends you don't [TS]
02:15:45 ◼ ► think about what I mean by that is that they have to do with the mastering is vinyl actually better able to you know I [TS]
02:15:52 ◼ ► but I don't think that she was intending to make a declaration about the world as much as I probably was. [TS]
02:16:01 ◼ ► and this is what I think I don't think she was trying to be the representative for Austin Texas last hipster Ville USA [TS]
02:16:08 ◼ ► I can't speak for her but I'm pretty sure that that wasn't the intention. For me I was more going for a global. [TS]
02:16:14 ◼ ► You are and you should listen to yourself and watch the video the market sent over and over again [TS]
02:16:19 ◼ ► and do exercises in your same old assistant book until you convince yourself that it's B.S. [TS]
02:16:25 ◼ ► and in the after shows because I don't want to bring it up on our own talk of I already had an episode where I harangue [TS]
02:16:29 ◼ ► them and faith does not need to be arranged but if you could you could take some Hering who will thank you [TS]
02:16:35 ◼ ► I I do not understand how a man that spends an unbelievable amount of time fussing over a drink that's inherently [TS]
02:16:43 ◼ ► disgusting and not helpful can throw stones at me because I want to enjoy music in my own little way. [TS]
02:16:55 ◼ ► and stuff like that is that there's no like it's not like capturing audio waveforms there is no original [TS]
02:17:01 ◼ ► So there is no sort of objective criteria by which you can judge it all it's all like how does this tasty Oh [TS]
02:17:10 ◼ ► but like it's all subjective so you know like every city really replaces specially made coffee with K. [TS]
02:17:20 ◼ ► I mean hey if you want to if you want to orchestrate that I will gladly participate because I don't I don't like at all [TS]
02:17:28 ◼ ► Well the market biggest market was trying to find like he's although he does all these fussy things I think what he's [TS]
02:17:34 ◼ ► If there was some way that he could like snap his fingers and instantly have a cup of coffee with no mess [TS]
02:17:39 ◼ ► and no muss I think it tasted good to him I think he would do it like he's not going out of it you know going out of [TS]
02:17:47 ◼ ► No in fact making making coffee in my way I don't think actually takes more overall effort than using like a regular [TS]
02:17:53 ◼ ► drip hardly ever use for years it is a little more effort than using a cake up machine [TS]
02:17:57 ◼ ► but it's like I use an arrow for us. And I don't even do a super first year press and a roast their own beans. [TS]
02:18:04 ◼ ► So that kind of thing that cranks up the fuzziness meter if you were to buy roaster invented outside of your house of [TS]
02:18:11 ◼ ► the village smoke and figure out how to use the roaster it takes fifteen minutes every ten days. [TS]
02:18:16 ◼ ► Iris I like the point is like the reason you're doing that is because you're trying to find the minimum like a coffee [TS]
02:18:21 ◼ ► that tastes good to you but it also doesn't absorb your entire life in making it right [TS]
02:18:26 ◼ ► and the reason why I've been doing all this audio research recently is because I also am an audio file. [TS]
02:18:32 ◼ ► But I'm I'm not a ridiculous one like I'm really really super into good headphones [TS]
02:18:38 ◼ ► and speakers I care a lot less about that I don't have a lot of opportunities to work on speakers right now my life [TS]
02:18:42 ◼ ► but I'm really into really good headphones and I have now what I consider pretty ridiculous equipment. [TS]
02:18:50 ◼ ► But getting here involves a lot of research and finding out like what mattered to me and what didn't [TS]
02:19:10 ◼ ► and vinyl you know your vinyl crazy Tea Ceremony is the exact same way like you're looking to get something out of that [TS]
02:19:22 ◼ ► and say Oh well actually better than why you know if you're not saying well I enjoy the procedure of X. [TS]
02:19:37 ◼ ► and in the coffee role even is because people do a lot of wasteful stupid things that actually don't have any effect [TS]
02:19:45 ◼ ► and again if they enjoy them that's fine but the problem comes in when they start telling other people. [TS]
02:19:51 ◼ ► If you do this it will be better. Or if you buy this it will be better. That actually gets destructive. [TS]
02:20:01 ◼ ► Sure I could google a post where you told us about how roasting beans is the only way to do. [TS]
02:20:06 ◼ ► Actually every time I've mentioned roasting my own beans on my site I say you shouldn't do this. [TS]
02:20:11 ◼ ► Well I guess I guess if you're back to taste being subjective like it's not as not as now I go anywhere we have a way [TS]
02:20:16 ◼ ► of here is the original And let's see if we can reproduce in that unlike the generally accepted level of quality in [TS]
02:20:22 ◼ ► audio is like we want to reproduce the original as accurately as possible and like [TS]
02:20:25 ◼ ► and I don't even think that necessarily makes people feel as good because the original It's not just the way form it's [TS]
02:20:41 ◼ ► when the original single is reproduced in accurately in these ways in fact in particular the way that vinyl tends to [TS]
02:20:53 ◼ ► There's a standard for coffee if you like McDonald's coffee Dunkin Donuts coffee cake up like whatever you like is what [TS]
02:20:59 ◼ ► you like you can say well that's not how coffee supposed to take us and this is all subjective [TS]
02:21:03 ◼ ► and Marco has particular tastes in coffee and to his tastes. Starbucks is gross and what he makes is good. [TS]
02:21:12 ◼ ► but there's no easy yardstick except for like I guess some things like damages your body by drinking [TS]
02:21:17 ◼ ► and we can all agree that you probably shouldn't have that although maybe that's a bad choice for coffee. [TS]
02:21:22 ◼ ► Well no I but I think Coffee does damage your body in before Marco interrupts me what I mean by that Lance doesn't. [TS]
02:21:27 ◼ ► What I mean by that is part of the reason I don't ever want to learn to like coffee is because I don't ever want to [TS]
02:21:38 ◼ ► I can go weeks without a diet coke but I like to now but I don't and I don't run my life based on whether [TS]
02:21:45 ◼ ► or not I've had my lunchtime Diet Coke and maybe Marco isn't this way although I feel like you are. [TS]
02:21:54 ◼ ► and they don't want to be talked to until they've stuck a cake up in the Keurig and they can't. [TS]
02:22:00 ◼ ► They feel like they can't function until they've completed that stage of their mourning [TS]
02:22:12 ◼ ► and I mean if he is a capping addict you know I am a Cappy addict in that if I don't have coffee I will get a headache [TS]
02:22:18 ◼ ► by about four pm or so. But when do you think I have my first cup of coffee today. [TS]
02:22:26 ◼ ► I woke up at about a third of that that I was totally give you know her know her a thirty I worked all morning I have [TS]
02:22:36 ◼ ► Your wife is a saint and I give a separate area thirty to thirty though your child the saint [TS]
02:22:44 ◼ ► and saying you should not you should not share that widely to the point of driving at is less about the time [TS]
02:22:58 ◼ ► Could you live with it perhaps but something is amiss and I just don't want that in my life. [TS]
02:23:04 ◼ ► Agreed so then instead you listen to vinyl which involves washing things and sleeving them [TS]
02:23:08 ◼ ► and wiping the wash off the sleeve he doesn't he doesn't even have a record player right. I never do. [TS]
02:23:16 ◼ ► and dad's which up until two months from now they lived in Connecticut so I was in the final two [TS]
02:23:23 ◼ ► and you know what maybe that's why romanticize it so damn much maybe it's because I grew up with it there's a million [TS]
02:23:29 ◼ ► and I will concede that I should not have said that it is the be all end all better mechanism for listening to music [TS]