The Accidental Tech Podcast

68: Siracusa Waited Impatiently For This


00:00:00   When you're going to hear all the costs and sniffles and everything else. Normally we have time to take out. [TS]

00:00:07   It's a has nothing to do with our studio which is excellent and I'm very enthusiastic about this [TS]

00:00:11   but has everything to do with the fact that we want to get this out immediately. [TS]

00:00:15   Meanwhile I'm watching John and Cameron and I'm trying to figure it out. OK So this is our special W.D.C. [TS]

00:00:27   Episode which we're recording at the David keynote and it is right after the keynote. I'm sorry. [TS]

00:00:33   Right after the afternoon session we are at the MacWorld studios. [TS]

00:00:36   So thank you very much to Jason's now for letting us crash his studio [TS]

00:00:41   and use his equipment in order to get this pod cast to you likely split [TS]

00:00:44   and not sound like garbage so thank you very much. Jason's now. Everyone tweet him a big thank you. [TS]

00:00:50   Just so his inbox explodes at J. Snow or you can listen to his podcast the incomparable on five by five which Marco. [TS]

00:00:59   So so some stuff happened today. Today was a big day. And John do you have any thoughts about today by chance. [TS]

00:01:08   Talk about a plan of attack for this pocket because there is much there's way too much that happened today for us to [TS]

00:01:13   discuss and [TS]

00:01:13   when I was out of the bog of no doubt we will be talking about these things for many episodes the comment I probably [TS]

00:01:18   would have been a good idea for us to have a plan of like OK today we're just going to talk about like I was just going [TS]

00:01:23   talk about swiftest and I but we don't have a plan because we're disorganized. [TS]

00:01:27   Are you suggesting that you did not do your homework. We didn't know didn't you know. [TS]

00:01:32   But anyway I think that we know what he wanted to do and do a focus on particular. [TS]

00:01:36   Just wanted to give broad sweeping stocks we have. We want to do everything we need to have a list of bullet points. [TS]

00:01:40   OK We're going to talk about this that that that and get through them all. [TS]

00:01:42   Otherwise we're going to we're going to dive into one of these topics [TS]

00:01:44   and spend the whole show on it which I'm also fun with. [TS]

00:01:48   Well let's just start going down the list and if we end up going off on a tangent that last twelve hours then so be it. [TS]

00:01:54   So what did we see today. Well firstly on the way in we got. [TS]

00:02:00   Aided by the line people which was weird I didn't I've never seen that before so yeah as you're on your way in. [TS]

00:02:07   So you wrap around the block a couple times [TS]

00:02:09   and then at something like seven seven thirty well something around seven thirty they let you into Mosconi [TS]

00:02:16   and you'd end up going to the second level of Moscone and so you go up these escalators and we hear cheering. [TS]

00:02:22   We hear cheering going on and I'm thinking myself what is happening. [TS]

00:02:26   And sure enough they had I guess or Apple employees that had all these Apple employees lined up today [TS]

00:02:32   and like oh right yeah be excited it's like seven thirty in the Morning we're all exhausted [TS]

00:02:37   and jet lagged in there trying to pump us all up and I had never seen that before and it was odd. [TS]

00:02:42   That's why they do it up of our employees come out [TS]

00:02:46   and applaud for everybody like yeah I mean it is that point people know they're excited about what's on the way [TS]

00:02:50   and you know we don't know what we're going to be [TS]

00:02:52   and there was plenty in the Q Not worth applauding how do we know what we were going to see we would have been just as [TS]

00:02:57   well probably that we didn't so it was just a bunch of tired people. [TS]

00:02:59   Yeah it was it was different to say we're going to try to get a dub dub D.C. [TS]

00:03:03   Chant going which was extremely on and I was it was odd [TS]

00:03:06   but then we made it into the keynote room that worked out well [TS]

00:03:09   and the keynote started fairly slow I thought I didn't think it had that much speed to it [TS]

00:03:14   and everyone seemed really confident and really relaxed [TS]

00:03:19   and I didn't know what to make of it so what was the first one was from the First off they covered. [TS]

00:03:24   I didn't start taking notes until about halfway through so I don't know if you guys all right this is an accidental [TS]

00:03:28   podcast and one of the things I noticed first was you know just like the mood of really you know Tim comes out [TS]

00:03:34   and Tim is relaxed and laid back and this is a side of him we haven't seen a lot of if any really [TS]

00:03:41   and he was kind of fiery and like he was again taken jabs at Google in Windows [TS]

00:03:45   and seven it was it was the kind of thing you know we've seen that from from jobs in the past. [TS]

00:03:51   But tim is always shown a more reserved approach to those usually and he'll put in jabs here [TS]

00:03:55   and there that are more subtle in the past but I think this is the first time we. I'm really like. [TS]

00:04:01   Feel free to just dig in and he seemed [TS]

00:04:05   and I think I think what we saw play out is that the reason he was so confident [TS]

00:04:11   and laid back look at the same reason that all the presenters were so confidently back is because they knew they had a [TS]

00:04:18   kickass lineup that they were announcing and like they were very proud [TS]

00:04:22   and confident in what they were about to show us [TS]

00:04:24   and we didn't know yet so at the time which is a cloud that that's they seem like they're really relaxed today in there [TS]

00:04:31   and they didn't float very well it was it was much more put together much more seamless than I would say any Apple [TS]

00:04:40   event in the last three years I would say that like he seemed less rehearsed not that we know they were errors like [TS]

00:04:46   crazy right but in the end Tim Cook's first several keynote you could tell that he was well rehearsed [TS]

00:04:52   and he would come out there and say what he was going to say [TS]

00:04:55   and I was like oh I can see that he is saying something that he has prescribed it whereas I mean now it was the same [TS]

00:05:00   exact thing this time but he sounded less rehearsed so again you know he was relaxed as of the rest of the keynote. [TS]

00:05:05   There was so much stuff and this came out of that whole important technologies got like a slide and five seconds [TS]

00:05:14   and it was like wait what was that. And then they're on to the next thing because there just wasn't enough time. [TS]

00:05:18   And it's obvious they're trying to keep it to a two hour keynote the try not to go three hours four hours whereas other [TS]

00:05:23   companies I mean Google's done that and Microsoft's going really long. [TS]

00:05:26   Sony If you want to go to the gaming space there been press conferences where [TS]

00:05:30   when people have a lot to announce they say well we've got a lot to announce and everybody will love it [TS]

00:05:33   and they just go and Apple was like we have a lot to announce [TS]

00:05:36   but we're going to hold it to our schedule to keep so there was so much in his keynote that there were things that got [TS]

00:05:43   one slide that are more significant than things that got like ten minutes and in previous years. [TS]

00:05:48   Yeah it was you could tell like you know we were what I love about this is so much of it was a surprise you know there [TS]

00:05:54   were very few spoilers of any of any value here. Even like you know one of the biggest spoilers healthy. [TS]

00:06:00   Look was kind of wrong in you know how it's like an asterisk on the. Yeah yeah we got the health thing. [TS]

00:06:06   Yeah well I mean it was like it was like we said the possibility of like them introducing A.P.I. [TS]

00:06:10   For integration with third party things and then maybe something of their own in the future [TS]

00:06:14   and so the ball was not going anywhere near anything wearable [TS]

00:06:16   and I think today it's like we have a bunch of baby eyes and a third party application can use it [TS]

00:06:21   and I think that'll be great guys right OK Moving on I mean it was one in the in the scope of the you know it was a [TS]

00:06:25   minor announcement you know was really wild and I gotta say to to back up just a smidge that I loved snarky Tim Cook. [TS]

00:06:34   I thought it was great I really really did and I think that the corny jokes that Apple made like during last W.D.C. [TS]

00:06:42   and I can think of the most time I had maybe it was with any Q. [TS]

00:06:46   and I work and he did like the band poster or whatever it was you know I just felt like that was so corny [TS]

00:06:52   and contrived in this year with the exception of the hair thing which I think we've taken a little too far. [TS]

00:06:57   I thought everything else was well done I thought it was the right amount of snark the right amount of humor which is [TS]

00:07:02   not something I'm used to seeing from Apple I mean Jobs had his own shtick here and there [TS]

00:07:07   but generally speaking they've been fairly by the book [TS]

00:07:10   and I love this slightly more casual Apple that the titles in the D.C. [TS]

00:07:16   Sessions where it was like Well wouldn't you like to know in well we had to tell you I love this new Apple i know John [TS]

00:07:22   is the as the old man of the three of us in terms of Apple any age what do you think about this like more casual set up. [TS]

00:07:29   Think about the humor in the jokes like this to parse that one is how relaxed relaxed the people are making things like [TS]

00:07:35   that people seem relax because they were can think of a lot of good stuff to show and because their experience like [TS]

00:07:38   when they brought out the new people when presented many times they were shaky [TS]

00:07:41   or kind of like you know Craig was in the beginning but now he's more experienced [TS]

00:07:44   but the second thing is the jokes were just silly and corny as they've always been. [TS]

00:07:50   But [TS]

00:07:50   when you're announcing things to get the audience excited the audience is predisposed to forgive your mistakes because [TS]

00:07:56   they're so jazzed up for and so that is the effect basically if you have gray. [TS]

00:08:00   Things to show if you have announcements of the audience was going to love. [TS]

00:08:03   They will also be in the mood to laugh at your stupid jokes and if you're showing stop it's boring [TS]

00:08:08   and you make a stupid joke you like not only United training you really think that I won't be making a stupid joke [TS]

00:08:12   and wasting my time. So it's all about. Audience atmosphere and we were you know as as there are now things rolled on. [TS]

00:08:20   We were all very receptive to anything that's true [TS]

00:08:22   and I think that the pace in general seemed not that brisk in the beginning [TS]

00:08:28   but by the end my goodness it was a fire hose just getting leveled at all these developers [TS]

00:08:34   and in the best possible way. [TS]

00:08:35   But things got fast [TS]

00:08:37   and this is what this comes back to what you were saying earlier about oh yeah well we've got this whole thing. [TS]

00:08:40   Oh yeah we've got these new death tolls. [TS]

00:08:42   Oh yeah we've got this new language and it was unbelievable how quick it was there was a lot happening today. [TS]

00:08:47   There was also at a level of refinement that we haven't seen in a while like [TS]

00:08:52   and even even with jobs like this is really Steve Jobs things even with jobs there were some some weird [TS]

00:08:56   and sloppy moments [TS]

00:08:58   and the events for the last couple years Apple's events have have seemed stuffy almost sterile kind of uptight [TS]

00:09:06   and any I was even worried because you know [TS]

00:09:07   when we saw Eddie Q And Jimmy I vine last week I think it did not come off that well either I think he was a little [TS]

00:09:12   uptight there and so I was I was kind of worried you know that that's kind of the apple we've seen recently. [TS]

00:09:18   And like last year like some of these are you know some of the jokes were kind of overplayed [TS]

00:09:23   or stale they they ran too many videos last year another good point. [TS]

00:09:27   Yeah and and like they and they kept running the same video for like three events in a row like it was this year. [TS]

00:09:34   They ironed out all those bugs in their presentation and it was just a smooth presentation from start to finish. [TS]

00:09:41   There were no remote control cars. It was it was just very very well done and I mean what they announced. [TS]

00:09:47   I don't even know where to begin. [TS]

00:09:50   It was just a lot lately I mean with the last ten because I think it despite people thinking oh this is going to be [TS]

00:09:56   and I was also saying this is going to be bigger and that it is visually. [TS]

00:10:00   This from the perspective I think it was the smallest of the things that they announced today that they thought of the [TS]

00:10:04   big slides can be a western Iowa State and then they have very bright developer tools [TS]

00:10:09   and all those three things like they lead with the small one like they always do you save the best for last. [TS]

00:10:13   So I think we can dispense with O S ten pretty quickly if you want to cover that in the beginning. [TS]

00:10:18   Also your review was going to be short as well that might be oh I don't know I mean the thing about it as I mentioned [TS]

00:10:23   before that like a lot of the things they put in the Iowa section [TS]

00:10:26   or in the death of developer tools section of the keynote also applied O S ten. [TS]

00:10:31   We don't think of them that way because you know anything that shared between I was ten [TS]

00:10:34   and I was going to go into the Iowa session because that's what everyone cares about because [TS]

00:10:37   when I hear a small platform but that's up a blast though I thought as well so I'm not entirely sure but [TS]

00:10:42   and then we start with Oh as to what we thought was going to happen was a big video already fresh what we got was a big [TS]

00:10:47   visual refresh. [TS]

00:10:49   Wasn't that big a visual refresh No I mean it's in hearing that again I was actually surprised how how radical it [TS]

00:10:55   wasn't and they were what you would you expect that you can say well I expected everything to be all white and thin [TS]

00:11:01   and wispy and it wasn't like it was it it still looks like Macko S ten. [TS]

00:11:06   Still it's not a jarring change it is an evolutionary change [TS]

00:11:12   and it's exactly I think the kind of change that was warranted they didn't need to totally throw everything like a [TS]

00:11:18   number like I was [TS]

00:11:20   and remember like you know Gruber is even saying like you know what they can do about shadows about layering windows [TS]

00:11:25   and it turns out they didn't do anything different we still live in the shadows because Windows still are windows they [TS]

00:11:30   still hate Windows they're still layered it you know it it wasn't as radical of a change as I think a lot of people [TS]

00:11:35   were assuming or fearing that it would be and I mean [TS]

00:11:38   and there are a few there are a few weird issues with that that I'm not thrilled with like I think the the trends loose [TS]

00:11:45   and see a difference between like the sidebar is translucent to the desktop [TS]

00:11:50   and the title bar is translucent to the view under it within its own window [TS]

00:11:54   and there it is we're layering things that are conceptually little on but I think overall it looks. [TS]

00:12:00   Great and it looks like a nice modernization of what they already had rather than throwing it all away [TS]

00:12:05   and making something totally radically different if they were the new look like. [TS]

00:12:11   It's not it's not the type of thing where you're going to install the snow ass [TS]

00:12:16   and all your apps are going to look like the absolute showed in the keynote because this stuff doesn't get enabled by [TS]

00:12:20   default like you have to opt into it and so Apple's apps are going to work. [TS]

00:12:24   I got Apple's apps are going to have like title bars with a window which is right in line with them like they do [TS]

00:12:28   already ends up like the App Store app is like that I think and a couple other ones. [TS]

00:12:33   And Apple's apps are going to have a translucent side bar in Apple's apps are going to have to you know trends [TS]

00:12:37   and thought about it like it's not going to transform all your apps into this crazy translucent think so for the most [TS]

00:12:43   part what most people that Macs are going to look like is their existing absolute different title bars different fonts [TS]

00:12:49   in the menus in a different doc but everything else looking more or less the same [TS]

00:12:55   and I don't know if Apple will be able to get everybody on board the hey everybody make all your cyber Stranglers [TS]

00:13:00   and make all your talk about strangles and talk with content underneath [TS]

00:13:03   but I don't know if they're going to go in that direction so I'm trying to think about what real Max will look like [TS]

00:13:09   growing up seventy not what we saw in the in the keynote. [TS]

00:13:13   Yeah I don't know the other thing that struck me about the the visual refresh was [TS]

00:13:18   when I saw Windows seven for the first time in this is [TS]

00:13:21   when I'd already had a mac at this point I was already all in on the West hand I felt like what do they call the [TS]

00:13:26   Windows seven refresh visual refresh I can remember now it doesn't matter but anyway [TS]

00:13:30   but where everything I write something no it's not it was premature [TS]

00:13:34   but anyway the point is it was all very translucent and similar ideas [TS]

00:13:38   and I actually thought from the very first time I saw it that the Windows seven stuff looked pretty good. [TS]

00:13:42   I agree with with Marco especially with this odd amounts of translucence where um translates into one thing here [TS]

00:13:49   but I'm trying to listen to this other thing they're era by the way if you like in the chatter. [TS]

00:13:53   It's what I hear Oh yes thank you. [TS]

00:13:56   So Arrow I thought looked great from the beginning and I don't even know if Microsoft is back pedal. [TS]

00:14:00   On that or not but but this is new O.S.'s can set up good but I have my reservation. [TS]

00:14:06   Something like I don't think your screen is going to look like that I think it's going to look like what you what it [TS]

00:14:10   looks like now and then like Safari might look different to mail it to her most your absolute will will look the same. [TS]

00:14:14   That's for me like the whole thing with the translucency and as to what and to what [TS]

00:14:20   and why are these things translate and that is always the question. [TS]

00:14:24   And if Apple job I think to to justify why some of them want to do this to their application because there are [TS]

00:14:31   downsides in terms of readability in terms of variability is this something that people want does it look really [TS]

00:14:36   awesome and people like Rush metal justification is basically people think it looks cool [TS]

00:14:40   and so everybody made their apps brush metal whether it was [TS]

00:14:42   or not that was you know if you were to ask why should people do this like well people people think it's cool [TS]

00:14:47   and they did think it out on these brush [TS]

00:14:48   and everywhere Well I don't know if people think this translucent is all that called me I was something has it as well [TS]

00:14:54   I grant the A.P.I. [TS]

00:14:55   Is not as open so everyone can go hog wild with it [TS]

00:14:57   but it will really depend on whether people think it's worth adopting a thing because if they don't it's just I was ten. [TS]

00:15:05   But everything you know candy colored [TS]

00:15:07   and I was having a fight you didn't say during the keynote that the idea was to give you some context within your [TS]

00:15:12   document which I don't really I mean what is that sound I mean like previously I wasn't aware that my document [TS]

00:15:18   continued off the top of this page [TS]

00:15:19   or another like the green image showing through my title bar I'm aware that it goes off of that like how does a pariah [TS]

00:15:24   do any more contact than simply clipping the image of that point or got right [TS]

00:15:27   and showing you know always showing a scroll bar so you can see the scroll position. [TS]

00:15:31   I forget which where they were using I don't think context [TS]

00:15:33   or they didn't have a talking point of like how translucency provides it like one. [TS]

00:15:36   One thing was like you can pick your desktop background that will influence how your absolute personality dustup back [TS]

00:15:42   and shelter in your apps is that something that people want they want the personality of the desktop background showing [TS]

00:15:47   through in their apps that just want to use their apps like read their mail and stuff [TS]

00:15:49   and I want to see the desk you have energy and it looks like a big mess [TS]

00:15:52   but again these are all opt in things your apps aren't going to come become translucent Apple's obviously opting into [TS]

00:15:58   them and they will be. [TS]

00:16:00   Good test bed [TS]

00:16:00   and it will be interesting to see if if this is something people want whether developers think it was going they ship [TS]

00:16:05   it to people and people complain or developers never even ship it [TS]

00:16:08   and it just ends up being a different looking back to us. [TS]

00:16:10   But so in anything else a visual refresh because I mean I think that's pretty much all I had to say about I think the [TS]

00:16:17   idea of them redoing trying to constrain the icons into the into the different arrangements of having circle icons [TS]

00:16:25   and square icons and having all the little slanty they show them people taking pictures of the I'm extreme [TS]

00:16:30   but I'm sure there's more of showing all the little slanted rectangle icons all looking identical identically slanted [TS]

00:16:36   and everything that's a reasonably unification is a nice middle ground between people thinking oh ten is going to get [TS]

00:16:41   around Rex rolls I can't it's not right. [TS]

00:16:43   There are still distinction and again I think their parties might just ignore this [TS]

00:16:47   and say what's good for you Apple you can do whatever the hell you want your icons [TS]

00:16:50   or still making our car icons look we want so I think there will be a continued tension between what Apple is doing [TS]

00:16:57   with your family and what third party developers do with it [TS]

00:16:59   and it might be a little weird kind like I was seven as were some apps just don't come all the way on the Iowa seven [TS]

00:17:05   trains you've got these apps that you know there I can't even change since I was six [TS]

00:17:09   and there are interfaces may be different but they don't look like I was seven. [TS]

00:17:13   They still don't have the I was five or the i Phone five screen size support not that bad. [TS]

00:17:19   We're sponsor this week first by our friends at a glue a glue in the Internet you actually like [TS]

00:17:25   and it's about to get even better. They lose next year lease unicorn is coming this summer. [TS]

00:17:31   With it comes social task management a brand new feature fully integrated throughout the platform right in the perfect [TS]

00:17:37   balance between project management and getting your day to day work done. [TS]

00:17:40   You can manage projects with Task List optimize for large groups of people you can assign tasks from any piece of [TS]

00:17:46   content like requesting change to be made in a document and you can create personal tasks that are assigned to you [TS]

00:17:51   or another person [TS]

00:17:53   and you can see all your tasks in one unified view you can learn more about this at a glue Software dot com. [TS]

00:18:00   Slash A.T.P. [TS]

00:18:01   or You can come see unicorn in person igloo is hosting an event in Toronto which I think is intended on June twelfth [TS]

00:18:10   with customer presentations by Hulu and Nextel international so good [TS]

00:18:14   or sorry igloo Software dot com slash Toronto to register for that event. [TS]

00:18:20   Otherwise once again go to igloo Software dot com slash A.T.P. [TS]

00:18:24   To check out a clue the Internet you'll actually like and all the cool stuff they're working on these days. [TS]

00:18:28   Thanks a lot to our friends at igloo for sponsoring our show once again. [TS]

00:18:32   Speak of a go another like web type applications you know all the web apps that started to change their look to look [TS]

00:18:37   like Iowa seven after Iowa seven came out. [TS]

00:18:40   Hey I'm just glad that websites are still trying to like Iowa sold well that look terrible right. [TS]

00:18:45   But I lot of web a lot of people have either Web Components their products [TS]

00:18:48   or have web apps took the hint from you know Windows eight as well [TS]

00:18:51   but also Iowa seven especially in the Macworld to make their websites look like that [TS]

00:18:54   and with the change in look of oh S. [TS]

00:18:56   Ten now that turns out to be a good move me even Apple is doing it like they should [TS]

00:19:00   but the app store looks like about the regime or the new App Store app on the Mac. [TS]

00:19:05   Looks all different like that that look like kind of like flat candy color look if you do that everywhere across your [TS]

00:19:11   website on your I.R.S. [TS]

00:19:12   Device [TS]

00:19:13   and now the MCE switched over to it I was that was good planning because people like that look at simple it's clean [TS]

00:19:18   and now it is across the entire Apple platform. [TS]

00:19:22   So this keynote was to some degree wonderful and terrible for me [TS]

00:19:27   and it was wonderful because they announce that we're getting air drop between devices between between O.S.'s I guess I [TS]

00:19:34   should say between Yosemite and between I would say which is great [TS]

00:19:38   but the downside was was that we also learned later on that there's this hand-off thing that that where if you will say [TS]

00:19:47   working on an e-mail or something like that [TS]

00:19:50   and then you want to finish that e-mail you work on on the phone you want to finish it on your computer [TS]

00:19:56   and then all of a sudden you can just see mail through. [TS]

00:20:00   The ether through them is through the air and on to the computer and that sounds awesome [TS]

00:20:04   and I'm really enthusiastic about it. [TS]

00:20:06   However I do think and they never confirmed or denied that that's probably using Bluetooth low energy [TS]

00:20:12   and none of my Macs a beautiful energy you could be using airdrop Roberts between them [TS]

00:20:17   and a supposed to be the whole idea is its proximity base so it's not it's not like they mention like oh you won't you [TS]

00:20:23   won't have things from your home showing up on your work computer or vice versa so could be bootable [TS]

00:20:26   and could also be airdrop it uses that like ad hoc right why fine networking you have [TS]

00:20:30   and I think all of it requires developer support like this is not magic. So Apple's Mail. [TS]

00:20:37   If you use Apple mailing or mac and use Apple now in your I O. S. [TS]

00:20:40   Device then yeah you can do that but what if you use something else on either one of those places [TS]

00:20:45   or one of the things you use a developer has an added support for this. [TS]

00:20:48   It still seems like a thing that you have to do and it could kind of be fidgety enough that like demos really well [TS]

00:20:54   but I don't know. [TS]

00:20:55   Like I understand the frustration of getting out because I know when I'm doing something on one device [TS]

00:20:58   and I want to just transition to it over there it would be nice everything picked up this requires so many parties to [TS]

00:21:05   cooperate [TS]

00:21:06   and everything to work for that handoff to work like getting the handoff to work could end up feeling like from the [TS]

00:21:12   user's perspective more trouble than it's worth. [TS]

00:21:14   Like maybe just better to save it as a draft then go over [TS]

00:21:17   and take the draft over there like you think the old things that we used to be in them as well [TS]

00:21:21   and I think it's a good idea for this program skeptical about how seamless it will really be in real life so what you [TS]

00:21:27   think about to say I think it's going be one of those things like notification sinking between devices [TS]

00:21:33   and how you know we were talking last week how it seems to be disgraced period in current infrastructure we have now [TS]

00:21:38   where like if you get in I message into your computer the windows focused on your phone will buzz in your pocket. [TS]

00:21:43   But if you don't attend to it within the few seconds your phone will buzz and like it's that kind of thing [TS]

00:21:47   and they have worked on it over time [TS]

00:21:49   and it has it has gotten better over time it's still not perfect it's gotten better. [TS]

00:21:53   This is probably of the same kind of thing where it's going to start out probably a little wonky [TS]

00:21:58   and then get better over time. Actually I'm just hopeful that it is the pure pure wife I thing. [TS]

00:22:06   I'm skeptical but I'm hopeful and we'll see what happens. But what else did we learn a West and why. [TS]

00:22:13   Well I mean one thing that's a very interesting I think [TS]

00:22:16   and I don't know where to talk with that is the i Cloud Dropbox basically yeah we talk about whether there are [TS]

00:22:22   backpedaled with or they just decided to show the file system or would they try to figure out something else [TS]

00:22:27   and this is kind of like an interesting compromise but what it seems to me is that they wanted to have their cake [TS]

00:22:32   and eat it too which is they wanted to have the existing i Cloud experience which is just like there is no file system [TS]

00:22:37   you know to worry about that every apple in the stone files everything's and i Cloud everything is ubiquitous [TS]

00:22:42   and available everywhere. They wanted to keep that because I think that's good right. [TS]

00:22:47   But they also wanted to add the ability for people who knew what they were doing to have something that was more like [TS]

00:22:53   Dropbox [TS]

00:22:54   and they didn't want to destroy one of the other so they want to make it so like if you're if you're using the system [TS]

00:22:59   the way you've been using for the past several years it will look the same to you but if you know what to do with [TS]

00:23:03   and suddenly you get the equivalent of an Open Save dialog box showing you like you know the i Cloud Sidebottom [TS]

00:23:08   suddenly shows you documents and what I think will happen is once you put icon in a sidebar in the Finder. [TS]

00:23:12   People are going to click on it people going to learn to make new folders there people are going to use it [TS]

00:23:16   and they'll end up using it like Dropbox [TS]

00:23:19   and I think Dropbox has proven that if you can see it's doesn't make any sense [TS]

00:23:24   but if you constrain the world of the file system to a single place that they can hang their hat on like it's in my [TS]

00:23:30   Dropbox or it's on my desktop. People are fine with that. [TS]

00:23:33   It doesn't matter that the number of levels of higher given create under that are the same as they can make any place [TS]

00:23:37   else. It just gives them a starting point to make them feel comfortable. [TS]

00:23:40   So now with i Cloud in the sidebar for people who imagine someone who gets a computer like oh you should install [TS]

00:23:47   Dropbox [TS]

00:23:47   and you know they can't install Dropbox you know that it's that phrase you should install Dropbox like Greek to them. [TS]

00:23:52   Well I don't know what you mean I don't know how to install software I don't know is there a Web site do I do something [TS]

00:23:56   to download a disk image do I get it like nobody knows us just like look. [TS]

00:24:00   Go your finder and the Cyber the thing called i Cloud anything you put there. [TS]

00:24:03   When you're you know you can put stuff there and you'll see it everywhere [TS]

00:24:07   and that is like Dropbox it's a folder the things are now i Cloud the cloud it sinks. [TS]

00:24:11   We hope you know I mean all this while to see how reliable it is [TS]

00:24:15   but it's a reasonable compromise I like that it acknowledges the fact that Apple has failed to come up with something [TS]

00:24:21   so much better that eliminates all the evils of our system [TS]

00:24:24   and I think we've taken less so Dropbox is like the file system is big [TS]

00:24:27   and confusing that if you constrain it to this one place whether it makes sense [TS]

00:24:32   or not people suddenly are able a larger group of people are suddenly able to deal with it. [TS]

00:24:36   Not everybody but a larger group. Yeah and I think it's is also this has a huge value in P.R. [TS]

00:24:43   For Apple because now it you know i Cloud is always is this umbrella term that refers to lots of different things most [TS]

00:24:51   of which are behind the scenes. If you talk about this and then he went in last week. [TS]

00:24:58   This is now a very public facing version of i Cloud [TS]

00:25:01   and it works the way people expect modern quote cloud things to work. [TS]

00:25:05   It's a cloud sync service for this folder full of files that's exactly what people want form from a cloud service today. [TS]

00:25:12   You know for the most part you know there's this if you don't top it up but this is what people want [TS]

00:25:16   and this is going to be this big thing in everyone's face uses a max And look it's i Cloud works we get it we're in the [TS]

00:25:23   cloud. [TS]

00:25:23   We are doing web services and they mostly work most of the time [TS]

00:25:27   and it comes of it it comes with your MAC a use of the i Cloud account but they make you set up when you install the O. [TS]

00:25:32   S. [TS]

00:25:32   So [TS]

00:25:32   when you set up the device like you don't have to go to a third party where all the advantages of being part of the platform [TS]

00:25:37   you know all those barriers that prevented people from getting Dropbox installed [TS]

00:25:40   and in fact I think there are there are new A.P.I. [TS]

00:25:44   Is in Austin and in Iowa so I just want to talk about the whole extensions they call extensions. [TS]

00:25:49   Probably that's right that was in the Iowa section but extensions applied O S ten as well [TS]

00:25:53   and so there are you know engines in oh S ten that will let For example Dropbox make their application better. [TS]

00:25:59   So Apple is not. [TS]

00:26:00   Saying oh i Cloud is built and will be able to do drop by if you like things [TS]

00:26:03   but in fact we're helping Dropbox out here too or helping ourselves out as well. [TS]

00:26:08   For example in not having Dropbox in memory hacked the Finder to put those little badges on all your icon to show it [TS]

00:26:13   could be raining like that. They've got an official A.B.I. [TS]

00:26:16   For that through extensions which is their safe mechanism for extending functionality [TS]

00:26:20   and I think the the notification widget things are similar there are those under the umbrella of extensions. [TS]

00:26:26   I believe it's the i Cloud Drive thing struck me as so interesting for a couple reasons firstly it was the tangible [TS]

00:26:34   manifestation of Dropbox as a feature not a product and I thought that was kind of interesting. [TS]

00:26:39   And then secondly this was the I believe the first thing we saw of a series of different features an enhancement some [TS]

00:26:49   products and whatnot that are all heavily relying on i Cloud [TS]

00:26:53   and maybe I am amongst a group of people that are giving I caught a bad rap for no really good reason [TS]

00:26:59   and I want to let you know. [TS]

00:27:02   But they're like if they double down on secrecy which it appears they have they have like quadruple down on i Cloud [TS]

00:27:09   being the sort the boss for their entire ecosystem. [TS]

00:27:14   And on print in principle that's wonderful [TS]

00:27:16   but that's a lot of pressure to put on a system that I'm not so sure can hand you know they were saying a lot of the [TS]

00:27:21   right things like for example I forget where maybe this was in the state of being around supposed talk about over one [TS]

00:27:27   one of the services they were talking about. They mention push notifications in connection with it. [TS]

00:27:34   And as we said on past shows like Push Notifications is one of the things is under the I caught umbrella that seems to [TS]

00:27:40   work pretty well and we're all hoping that like you know more like that less like I was born [TS]

00:27:45   and this presentation is I mean maybe says optimistic thing but like when they show these things [TS]

00:27:49   and like I have I'm optimistic that these new things will be more like push notifications [TS]

00:27:55   and less like the things that I don't know although I messages I mean they added tons of stuff time as well. [TS]

00:28:00   Oh and that still continues to be a little bit weird [TS]

00:28:03   and creepy So yeah you're right they really put a lot of eggs in this like about basket [TS]

00:28:06   and basically what Apple is doing is I'm assuming forcing themselves to get better at this crap like by their fear they [TS]

00:28:13   will he disastrous if they continue to from Bull and keep putting more [TS]

00:28:16   and more important things into the i Cloud basket. [TS]

00:28:19   I'm actually pretty confident in what they're doing because it seems like you know Casey said like you know they're [TS]

00:28:24   building a lot of this stuff on what appears to be the push notifications flash part of i Cloud And that seems to be [TS]

00:28:32   the part that is operating at probably the biggest scale and is probably the most reliable [TS]

00:28:37   and a sign of people Highnesses problems here and there [TS]

00:28:39   but we don't know how much that is related to like the like the client side software it seems like the server side [TS]

00:28:45   and of that in the push notification the whole push just them isn't really rock solid for the vast majority of its [TS]

00:28:52   existence [TS]

00:28:52   and certainly recently so I'm actually pretty confident that the i Cloud part of this is probably not going to be a [TS]

00:29:00   problem. [TS]

00:29:01   Other parts of it you know the like the client side code might be right but it seems like the i Cloud services [TS]

00:29:06   and of what they're doing you know and people you know i Cloud core data sync was it was a disaster [TS]

00:29:11   but that was also probably mostly a client side and design issue design of that I mean Larry you're even like [TS]

00:29:17   and documents in the cloud or those like a lot of those things kind of work but had weird things about them [TS]

00:29:24   or you know say start of a synchronous and they made them asynchronous and there's like not a right ability and [TS]

00:29:28   when it doesn't work even today like if you want apples notes Apple [TS]

00:29:31   and you know there are notes that you put on your i was device the notes have to sit there for a while [TS]

00:29:36   and then eventually or not show up you hope they don't like you have no recourse like there's no visibility [TS]

00:29:41   and that's that's why moving it like I caught in the sidebar I'm putting stuff there for documents I mean it is they [TS]

00:29:46   give you some visibility into what's going on but the other the other A.B.I. [TS]

00:29:50   Sprint I mean that's that's still a problem with their cloud system they get making a better from a developer's [TS]

00:29:53   perspective how developers can tell what the hell going on [TS]

00:29:55   but from a user perspective man the stuff that works because you have nowhere to go over doesn't you just just. [TS]

00:30:00   If your app is not even a busy indicator just like my stuff they're going to come it's not you know aren't they. [TS]

00:30:07   But they did mention and I think this is in the Indiait session so I'll be very vague [TS]

00:30:11   but I believe they mentioned that their dog food being a lot of the stuff they're providing to developers so a lot of [TS]

00:30:16   the stuff that they're giving developers they're using those A.P.I. For their own new features and application. [TS]

00:30:24   Yeah there was that was heartening Although it's like it it's helpful like that what that means is that if they did a [TS]

00:30:32   bad job Apple know about it that is the best thing about it the least I know right it a bad job [TS]

00:30:37   and doesn't telling me that a good job in the kind of bad if they didn't is now. [TS]

00:30:40   Now this grant their own services their own headline features are screwed up by their own bad guys [TS]

00:30:44   but presumably because they are dog footing it they'll find out that it's bad [TS]

00:30:47   and won't just be this like it won't we all had to wait for like developer backlash like Apple don't engineers to be [TS]

00:30:52   like your service I crap is broken and I can't shiplap because it's broken. [TS]

00:30:56   So is there anything else it's fun and exciting to talk about before we go [TS]

00:31:00   and I just want one more thing that I don't we're not done with I was ten [TS]

00:31:03   and they were the note of notification center sidebar on the widgets there [TS]

00:31:06   and like everyone's like what does that mean for dashboard where is that word. And they didn't say anything about it. [TS]

00:31:12   Pretty should ask were still there. [TS]

00:31:14   And Yosemite gazing Kanada said because well they didn't see the implication is that you should probably not get too [TS]

00:31:21   attached right. [TS]

00:31:22   You know but anyway like this is a grace period it seems like that but nothing about the future of dashboard [TS]

00:31:26   but anyone who knows anything about Apple will know that the future desk was not bright [TS]

00:31:30   and this is not the same next year it's gone [TS]

00:31:32   and this is Jason just pulled a dashboard in Yosemite I'm staring out anyway. [TS]

00:31:36   But like this is not news like Dashboard has been kind of stagnant [TS]

00:31:40   and just sitting there doing nothing for it for many many years that is a pretty old feature where they come in [TS]

00:31:45   and for something like that. Yeah some of them. [TS]

00:31:47   It's been around for a long time I use it every day I still think it's great [TS]

00:31:50   but it's clear that it's not just like this year that Apple decided to kill it [TS]

00:31:54   and it died of natural causes actually so desperate still there you continue to use it in Yosemite. [TS]

00:32:00   I don't know how much longer it will be around [TS]

00:32:01   and I bet most people won't mourn it even though I will because I think it's kind of cool. [TS]

00:32:05   And you can't I mean it's not it's not a direct replacement like the notification center in your sidebar right that's [TS]

00:32:10   part of the whole screen. [TS]

00:32:11   But third party opportunity people we're also sponsored this week once again by our friends at Warby Parker go to war [TS]

00:32:19   B. Parker dot com a slash A.T.P. [TS]

00:32:22   Henri Parker is a new concept in eyewear although it's only new to you if you have a listen to our show ever. [TS]

00:32:29   Henri Parker It was a collaboration between four friends [TS]

00:32:31   and he here's the thing they believe that I wear should not cost a fortune. [TS]

00:32:36   It should be available and affordable to everyone. Eyeglasses should cost as much as an i Phone That's ridiculous. [TS]

00:32:42   So they have prescription eyeglasses. [TS]

00:32:44   Very high quality and they started just ninety five dollars including the prescription lenses. [TS]

00:32:49   They even have a titanium collection starting just one hundred forty five dollars including preferred prescription [TS]

00:32:54   lenses. That includes premium Japanese titanium French non rocking screws and all sorts of other niceties. [TS]

00:33:00   All their glasses include anti-reflective an anti-glare coatings notational cost all of the glasses come with a hard [TS]

00:33:07   case which is awesome and a cleaning cloth there are no additional items you need to purchase they are on trial. [TS]

00:33:12   Trying to nickel and dime you it's great. [TS]

00:33:14   They make buying glasses online easy and risk free now you're probably afraid of getting a buying Ludlum [TS]

00:33:19   when you have done it before you probably feel like how will I know how they will look on my face. [TS]

00:33:23   They have a couple of ways to address this. [TS]

00:33:25   They have these awesome online tool you can use your webcam they will they will show they can even use looking to help [TS]

00:33:30   you measure in case your doctor won't give you the prescription details but you're sizing some of them are weird about. [TS]

00:33:36   They can even help you measure and it's very good very accurate and so you can please everyone there in that school [TS]

00:33:41   but the best thing about your partner I think is that they have this home try on programs you can go online you can [TS]

00:33:46   pick out up to five styles of glasses that you think might look good on you or look at in the preview thing [TS]

00:33:52   and they will send them to you and you can try them on in your home. Risk free. They send you for free. [TS]

00:33:58   They come the prepaid return. [TS]

00:34:00   When the label you say that you sent him back for free you can try them on in your home [TS]

00:34:03   and you can see how they look on you in person [TS]

00:34:06   and then if you want to buy them you can if you don't want to buy them no problem. [TS]

00:34:10   And not only that these people are nice enough already. [TS]

00:34:13   For every pair of glasses that they sell they distribute a pair of glasses to someone in need to recognize vision [TS]

00:34:19   charities and so [TS]

00:34:20   and this is great because you know there are so many people who who lack access to eyeglasses who need [TS]

00:34:28   and you know if you need glasses you need them to to leaving them in them to work in them if you're if you're a kid in [TS]

00:34:33   school you them to learn to see what see what on the board you know it's it's so important to people [TS]

00:34:38   and so what we per park [TS]

00:34:40   or don't do it's a very lesson for every pair they sell to people in need so it's really fantastic. Anyway go to war B. [TS]

00:34:46   Parker dot com slash A.T.P. [TS]

00:34:49   To learn more and check out their awesome glasses [TS]

00:34:52   and that's it so thanks a lot Tory Parker for sponsoring the show once again. [TS]

00:34:57   I've told the story a hundred times and I'll make it really quick but [TS]

00:35:01   when I got a set of Warby Parker sunglasses I put in like forced four pairs maybe three pairs of sunglasses that I that [TS]

00:35:08   were my stereotypical like this is Casey style and then I put in a pair [TS]

00:35:12   or two that were just completely not the sort of sunglasses I would normally buy. [TS]

00:35:16   And sure enough the ones that I ended up choosing were one of the ones that I didn't expect to like so it actually ends [TS]

00:35:21   up working out pretty well. [TS]

00:35:24   So really quickly real time follow up with regard to dashboard I believe the quote as I was informed by Jason was we [TS]

00:35:33   suggest you quickly adopt this new technology with regard to with regard to the notification center which is basically [TS]

00:35:40   Apple code for this is going to die. Prepare yourselves. [TS]

00:35:43   Yeah and this board was like a weird one off thing where these H.T.M.L. [TS]

00:35:47   You kind of waiters or whatever whereas their replacement is part of a larger system that spans bull I.O.'s analyst [TS]

00:35:52   and its extension system and I mean maybe there's just an umbrella term [TS]

00:35:55   and there's no real relation technologically we haven't learned the details yet but they're using that term to say. [TS]

00:36:00   You can write extensions for it we just I mean people not only is another extension as we are to use that term once I'm [TS]

00:36:05   on the mac and has bad connotations these are different and I O. [TS]

00:36:10   As it has a totally different thing when you get to it all [TS]

00:36:12   but I always say these new widget things on the sidebar are part of that system it's a way to extend the system [TS]

00:36:18   and I look forward to new ways to going to that is what this means that Apple has basically come up with a way for both [TS]

00:36:23   I.O.'s and the mac for people to write system extensions to extend the functionality of the system [TS]

00:36:29   and the whole idea has been like an arrow it will let you put a mike on and then you are [TS]

00:36:33   but you should really make a black and white. Because we have made you know and we will if you move your eyes around. [TS]

00:36:37   We only do that with ours yours is going to random order to upload download bartender so I'm hoping this is the dawning [TS]

00:36:45   certainly on I O. [TS]

00:36:46   Us is the dawning of a new age of expanding this is [TS]

00:36:48   and I'm hoping on the mac as well that it's a sort of a renaissance of extending the mac in interesting [TS]

00:36:54   and safe ways [TS]

00:36:55   and Apple approved ways versus the old way which is just like third parties figure out how to get it done. [TS]

00:37:00   You don't think you know as a whole and perhaps this relates more nihilists than the mac [TS]

00:37:05   but I felt the keynote as a whole was an exercise in Apple doing all the things that we never thought they'd do. [TS]

00:37:11   They gave us a whole bunch of foetid Well sort of gave us a whole bunch of photo storage. [TS]

00:37:16   They all are allowing extensions like you were saying both on the West hand which is to be expected but also an I O. S. [TS]

00:37:22   Including stuff as wild as replacing system keyboard when there are a couple of things now I'm drawn a blank [TS]

00:37:28   but they were so swift they're only hire expensive thing I mean I get huge thing right there. [TS]

00:37:33   But these are these are all the there are all these things that we all I think the three of us everyone really have [TS]

00:37:38   been saying oh they've got to do this [TS]

00:37:40   but they're not going to do it because they're Apple they're they're stubborn they're belligerent [TS]

00:37:43   but I don't think it's like a stubbornness [TS]

00:37:45   or like a philosophical objection a lot of us feel like Previously there was a philosophical objection now that is [TS]

00:37:50   changing but with a lot of these things it's like Apple always wanted to do them but it had to wait for certain things. [TS]

00:37:56   And on i OS which I guess will transition to soon anyway but like this. And I was like we don't have the C.P.U. [TS]

00:38:02   To do that we don't have the memory right there you don't have the whatever like background and stuff [TS]

00:38:06   and because they just had parties and didn't fit into them [TS]

00:38:09   and you know for the sandbox of like that we don't have a safe way to do that and so all of that was like [TS]

00:38:14   when we have the C.P.U. [TS]

00:38:16   when We have the memory when we've come up with a safe way for you to do it we will let you do it [TS]

00:38:20   but not before then not like I would just add it. [TS]

00:38:22   I know you can get this to work look if I go to the you know the jailbreak stores I get something does this right now [TS]

00:38:28   but which is on a large screen it's like Apple wanted to come up with everything had to be in place in the filing that [TS]

00:38:33   been a place that we have to have a safe way for you to do things so you're not compromising the stability of the [TS]

00:38:38   system so you're not allowing malware if you're not doing all you know [TS]

00:38:40   or your own privacy as well because they talk about how extensions. [TS]

00:38:44   Very briefly they spoke about how extensions are going to be Sam boxed in this might be in the end a sessions I should [TS]

00:38:50   probably shut up but suffice to say they took not only security of the system [TS]

00:38:53   but also your information out in the charity very clearly if you like all the things they prioritize for you know you [TS]

00:38:59   are safe using I was in these ways [TS]

00:39:01   and we're not going to let you do do all the things that you guys all want to do until we have safe ways to do it [TS]

00:39:07   within the current global hardware and this and then of course it's a lot of work for them to make as a guide [TS]

00:39:12   and this is the year this is the year where they finally they have crossed the threshold for all these things [TS]

00:39:16   and the probably is a thoughtful aspect of it as well [TS]

00:39:19   and it has some been so much shake up at the high levels of management that you can't discount that as one of the [TS]

00:39:23   possible reasons but you have to just look at it look at the way they're giving us all the stuff [TS]

00:39:28   and all of that is not the same way that the jailbreak stories gave it to us it is an official supported A.P.I. [TS]

00:39:33   That works with their existing sandboxing and prioritization stuff on the Macas well as when I was yeah. [TS]

00:39:39   So as a way to transition from MAC to Iowa last I want to briefly talk about I forget what they called it what their [TS]

00:39:46   marketing term for it was but when you can send traditional S.M.S. [TS]

00:39:50   Messages via the mac [TS]

00:39:52   but it's at the your i Phone does the sending you can actually even take VO as a little blue phone elite. Yeah. [TS]

00:40:00   Years ago right is very much in the demo you might be mistaken for thing it's like oh I've been able to do that on [TS]

00:40:05   Google Voice for years but it's paired with your phone. [TS]

00:40:08   You know i Phone none of this stuff work right but I got Yeah [TS]

00:40:11   but at the same time though I get a third party products that would basically say you've got a phone [TS]

00:40:15   but you want to do stuff that your phone could only do on your mac screen and just connect the dots [TS]

00:40:19   and it looks really nice and is very seamless [TS]

00:40:21   and it's something that was like yeah that should that should work that way why do I have to go and pick up the phone [TS]

00:40:26   or do you know having that having the caller ID Schober the notification having to be able to answer that call from [TS]

00:40:31   your mac like it's using your phone. [TS]

00:40:34   But they're all in the same house even if it's another room they're all connected on the same network why shouldn't [TS]

00:40:38   this work and made it work. Now I hope it works well. [TS]

00:40:41   And here again I hope it doesn't rely on Bluetooth all energy I presume in the case of phone calls it certainly [TS]

00:40:46   wouldn't. [TS]

00:40:47   But nevertheless I just it's a really impressive and it's a really impressive way to leverage a platform [TS]

00:40:53   and really do what you would hope and expect these things to do and I'm really excited about that. [TS]

00:40:59   So with that in mind let's kind of shift gears I.O.'s there's so much to talk about I don't even know where to be a [TS]

00:41:06   member and I said it I was it was going to be like the Mavericks of i OS was just you know not a lot on the outside [TS]

00:41:11   and you know some stuff on the inside but this is way bigger than a Mavericks release. [TS]

00:41:16   It's true that it didn't change the appearance that much like very little visually has been changed [TS]

00:41:19   but of the number of to have that changing every other part of my life is just huge. Yeah it's really surprising. [TS]

00:41:25   There are a couple things that jumped out at me really quickly because the things that have been that have really [TS]

00:41:29   bothered me over the years. They didn't talk a lot about it in the keynote but it seems like the four messages in S. [TS]

00:41:37   Amasses and things like that. It seems like all media is a femoral by default if you look closely at the keynote. [TS]

00:41:43   After like an image [TS]

00:41:45   or after one of these audio clips that's I believe new after video clip after each of these it says keep. [TS]

00:41:51   Yeah and so the implication I think they made a very quick mention of it [TS]

00:41:55   but the implication was if you don't hit the keep button in the next three days. [TS]

00:42:00   Or whatever the number may be then that's just going to go away and [TS]

00:42:03   and I especially have lamented numerous times about how I had gigs upon gigs will probably animated gifs [TS]

00:42:09   but one of the other gigs upon gigs of photos in my in my messages app on my phone that I didn't really need [TS]

00:42:18   and I didn't really want I wanted them to go away I wanted them to do that easily and quickly in this. [TS]

00:42:22   This seems like it's probably going to be the answer for that. [TS]

00:42:25   Yeah I mean they they did so I mean [TS]

00:42:27   and this leads very very closely to the photos discussion I think the I mean you know this. [TS]

00:42:31   So to recap basically they they announced this new a few a few things around photos that basically like you know what [TS]

00:42:40   it's basically what people wanted which is like you know photo stream as a as like a standalone thing is kind of going [TS]

00:42:46   away as what it was before you started to shared socially that's more of a you know feature [TS]

00:42:50   but as a storage mechanism photo stream has been massively upgraded now you just have all of your photos [TS]

00:42:55   or are just in i Cloud and they use use your i Cloud storage which now has a couple of bigger cheaper plans [TS]

00:43:03   and you know it's not we're not talking about like revolutionary president it was really it was two hundred gigs for [TS]

00:43:09   four bucks a month and we get whatever was it was like twenty gigs for four bucks [TS]

00:43:14   or are the lands I mean it's much cheaper than it was right. [TS]

00:43:18   But like it's still not like you know Google level you guys [TS]

00:43:21   and we don't have enough information yet to see what this is really like but they said the right thing is [TS]

00:43:25   when you know one of the they said that the I'm glad about was his that we keep your folder as pictures of riches [TS]

00:43:30   and videos [TS]

00:43:31   and videos which is a posed remark I was saying in the past shows that like if Apple needs to they should just do a [TS]

00:43:38   little rest of they can handle arrivals basically saying no actually we can handle it. [TS]

00:43:41   Not only can we handle your Horace pictures we're handling your video too which seems crazy but go for it right [TS]

00:43:47   and then the pricing that it's like all that announcement means nothing unless they adjust the price [TS]

00:43:51   and they did adjust the prices have adjusted enough we'll see but the previous pricing was crazy [TS]

00:43:55   and all unitive Well now I'm not in love with this price because it was at five gigs. For free. [TS]

00:44:01   Which I just think it's a little low that is reduced [TS]

00:44:03   and I think it was twenty gigs is that what you're saying twenty gigs was sunny in two hundred one any good to have [TS]

00:44:08   like went up to a terabyte within say how much those cost [TS]

00:44:10   but it I mean either way we're talking you know it's it's not dirt cheap [TS]

00:44:14   but it's not that expensive you know you know you're not paying like S three rates for this you know we would hope what [TS]

00:44:19   we would hope is that say you're so you're starting off with another customer now and you're just becoming an adult [TS]

00:44:25   and taking pictures of it like we would hope that as you accumulate pictures of Apple's pricing keeps pace [TS]

00:44:30   and comes down but for people with existing large collections of we're going to look at that and do the math [TS]

00:44:35   and say Is this worthwhile thing to us and they didn't mention anything about i Photo [TS]

00:44:38   and I have no idea what the fate of I thought it was [TS]

00:44:40   and they showed this Photos app which is like no island you know at the ferry I was you know because the I was sort of [TS]

00:44:45   that doesn't do anything close to this I thought oh I was too you know I mean the photograph of the highlights [TS]

00:44:49   and also our photo and I think I think I thought I was going with that board. [TS]

00:44:52   I don't know early on it [TS]

00:44:54   and use out of the same like the whole idea that you know can you take your photo collection [TS]

00:44:58   and just put it all in the cloud [TS]

00:45:00   and do all your photos that way I don't know the answer to that as yet I don't think that the keynote gave us a ration [TS]

00:45:06   to know that. [TS]

00:45:06   Well I think it's I think the implication is very clear you know I photo has always had this problem where on you know [TS]

00:45:13   it was I thought it was originally conceived in a world before the i Phone and sync and it never had multi device [TS]

00:45:19   and everything else and and photo stream kind of like half assed it in there but it wasn't a very good solution [TS]

00:45:24   and certainly was very confusing and then and then the i Phone comes out of the i Pad comes out [TS]

00:45:28   and they have this Photos app which is not my photo. [TS]

00:45:31   These are distinctly not I have a little and it has its own way to do things and store things to manage things [TS]

00:45:35   and they bring i Photo to I O. S. [TS]

00:45:37   Which is weird because they didn't replace photos with it they just brought this other photo measure program which I [TS]

00:45:42   thought I was in my opinion has never been good but maybe that's just me [TS]

00:45:46   but certainly I don't think has gotten like a lot of style [TS]

00:45:48   and how could i Photo be any good I was have all your photos are in the photo happily That seems like what they've done [TS]

00:45:53   has brought that same dichotomy to the MAC and I don't understand why i Photo can't be the same app it is today [TS]

00:45:59   but all the photos. [TS]

00:46:00   Already done the i Cloud way so I think I think the new photos up on the map they should of us coming up next next [TS]

00:46:06   spring on this it is not. They said next year and so they are not tied to an O. S. [TS]

00:46:11   Release and it's not read like it got pushed basic like you did not read it it didn't make it into Yosemite. [TS]

00:46:16   Right so I'm some pretty sure the implication there though is that the new photos aftermath of coming next year is the [TS]

00:46:21   replacement for I thought oh yeah [TS]

00:46:23   but what I showed was not what they showed with the I.O.'s photos up inside a window with a little toolbar doesn't come [TS]

00:46:28   close to like doing keywords and maps and slide shows and all the stuff that I will. Photos up on an i O. S. [TS]

00:46:36   Already has much I don't have the man himself but it has like the maps and the albums [TS]

00:46:40   and getting a lot of them already I'm I think the implication of where the going is very clear like I sort of go in the [TS]

00:46:45   way this is the replacement. [TS]

00:46:47   We're just not I mean the giving of the from the photos in the cloud like it's what we're talking about with messages [TS]

00:46:53   what they're basically saying is some of these photos will be on your local device [TS]

00:46:56   but you have access to more photos like I mean EVER pics that you didn't have every single foreign for a library on [TS]

00:47:00   your phone just because you upload pics but you could scroll through all of them and you can show anyone of them [TS]

00:47:04   and Apple is doing that now saying yeah we're going to do that to all your photos can't be on your I with the AIs will [TS]

00:47:10   store your photos but you can get to all of them from your eye with their eyes [TS]

00:47:13   and you can get to them all from your mac sometime next year that's what we're looking for a unified photo right. [TS]

00:47:18   Right protected in the cloud. Hopefully locally cash on your Macin are big enough and some of them on your phone. [TS]

00:47:23   Yeah and if the if the mac version is good enough and able to and willing to also import S.L.R. [TS]

00:47:31   Pictures and pictures from from stand alone cameras then that will be amazing. [TS]

00:47:38   You know I don't know it I think it's it's very very clear where they're going. I think I agree. Aperture. [TS]

00:47:44   It's I would think if you have to continue to I think it probably does but yeah I believe the pro stuff a lag [TS]

00:47:49   but like the whole idea it's what we want we want to have local fast access to our photos [TS]

00:47:54   but you are not to worry that if our if our computers die that we lose our photos so we want Apple to this story. [TS]

00:48:00   Back then the cloud having to be have to be think everywhere [TS]

00:48:02   but half assed local copies an aperture at the POE out they be like well the prob people don't want their stuff in a [TS]

00:48:08   cloud of tubing anyway so let us have a lot of the hard drives [TS]

00:48:11   but you know you can't this is going to come like that the whole idea of sort of a transparent storage hierarchy where [TS]

00:48:17   the canonical version is stored in a data center somewhere really safely for you hopefully not an age of us plus and [TS]

00:48:23   and all your local your local versions are like just cashes out and there being a thinker and eyes [TS]

00:48:28   and everything is fast because a local caching and it's all seamless. [TS]

00:48:31   That's where that's where all storage is going [TS]

00:48:33   and for giant bins of data that we have in our giant bins are basically photos and video for regular people. [TS]

00:48:38   That's what we want for storage hierarchy that ends in the cloud and that is transparent to us [TS]

00:48:42   and I feel like the photos set up that that Apple's building still grumbling about the price [TS]

00:48:49   but if that's the most of my complaints then we're still doing a pretty good job [TS]

00:48:53   and I'm really looking forward to it I'm really looking for trying it the only thing I wonder though is how we going to [TS]

00:48:59   get the years upon years upon years of photos that we've already taken in volume that's nothing like they came out with [TS]

00:49:05   a new version of I thought or of the photos up is the new version of i Photo import them [TS]

00:49:09   or try to say OK now we're just going transparently make your eye for a library in the cloud of the writer ever [TS]

00:49:14   but you know that you know there's a path that they talk about in the keynote the cloud that cloud kit for like a slide [TS]

00:49:20   and a half [TS]

00:49:20   or a group like ninety second I mean it was it was quick Did they mention the what you get with it in terms of the [TS]

00:49:27   storage limits over that only in the state of being I know they did they went over very quickly they said it was free [TS]

00:49:32   with limits and you get like they were. [TS]

00:49:35   We don't we can't the limits were not stated so we didn't know they were known as the documents that yeah they said [TS]

00:49:41   free with limits and those limits are pretty darn high. [TS]

00:49:45   We could say from that as we've seen so high that I don't understand how Apple is able to give to provide the cloud get [TS]

00:49:52   free with limits to the looks too good to be true to correct. [TS]

00:49:56   They did give the limits in the presentation for like what the global like. [TS]

00:50:00   You know you store whatever petabytes of data they did set up ready to tell you when you get per user right. [TS]

00:50:04   Well right. [TS]

00:50:04   Yes that's interesting though because so the video of the petabytes that they're saying if you make an I.O.I. [TS]

00:50:09   SAP and say Your I was Apple going to start something big like you know audio files or video [TS]

00:50:13   or whatever for the limits are like with the free thing before you start paying any money is all you can store petabyte [TS]

00:50:20   of data for all uses of your app combined we don't know if that whether anything is per user or whatever [TS]

00:50:24   but why is it that if you develop an app you could to start from very well if you want to store your photos i Cloud you [TS]

00:50:30   had to pay ninety nine cents to get like twenty gigs and three dollars to get two hundred gigs. [TS]

00:50:34   Only the per user what you get per user I don't I don't say but it's pretty small. [TS]

00:50:41   I think it's safe to say that like it's it's you have to have a lot of use and I guess that's always limit [TS]

00:50:47   but still in the bottom line is that you make some viral app like candy crush [TS]

00:50:50   and you store a bunch of crappy content for everybody [TS]

00:50:54   and you run into the pet of Apple is still going to have your data. [TS]

00:50:58   Well read Amazon of Microsoft originally it just seems like the pricing is still a little bit out of whack like I would [TS]

00:51:04   rather see Apple try to like I don't know how to rationalize that I don't know how to rationalize their willingness to [TS]

00:51:11   do this stuff for free [TS]

00:51:12   or for an app developer while charging individual users so much more to get I mean I like the new pricing better than [TS]

00:51:18   the old pricing [TS]

00:51:19   but I still can't decide whether it's something that that fits with fits with their own offering for active Elbrus [TS]

00:51:27   or fits with what people are going to be willing to pay for because that's all thing with us. [TS]

00:51:31   If people if someone gets a mac you know like oh you should probably sign up for i Cloud [TS]

00:51:34   and do this monthly bill like that's going to be a hard sell on people you know. [TS]

00:51:38   And same thing with the you know when you get your I WAS device [TS]

00:51:40   and you run into the free storage limit you know to say oh well you have to pay money now [TS]

00:51:45   and it just seems a little like a bait and switch I would rather have it be more upfront [TS]

00:51:48   and we have some assurance that this is something that regular people are going to do the wrong to take advantage of [TS]

00:51:53   and that is a price that we're going to deal with instead of having creep up on you. [TS]

00:51:57   Yeah I know and some of them follow closely the limits. [TS]

00:52:00   These are are made public in a public document which will put in the show notes if I remember to which I probably won't [TS]

00:52:04   because I'm very hungry and tired. It is one hundred megs per user for assets. [TS]

00:52:08   One meg for database and then there are some translators but yet I will limit their pain [TS]

00:52:14   but Apple's You couldn't build Instagram with that like that would probably hit that you know you have to have like a [TS]

00:52:20   wildly popular app that just save like high scores or talk up like that [TS]

00:52:23   but still again Apple's willing this is like go ahead try to find try to make an app that has three hundred million [TS]

00:52:28   users then we will end up story upset about you but somehow that's OK with them and I think you know this [TS]

00:52:34   and there are limits of cloud kit as far as far as we know we haven't learned much about it yet [TS]

00:52:39   and I have a list at the docks much of that on time [TS]

00:52:42   but as far as we can tell it this is not going to let you build a website. [TS]

00:52:46   Now I don't even run anything server side as far as we know. [TS]

00:52:49   Yeah it seems like it's all local could all client side code that tells the servers roughly what to do [TS]

00:52:54   but it's it's like you know factors of it's like it doesn't seem like there's a way for instance like like for free [TS]

00:52:59   with with overcast really underscore with with feed regularly to do this in there's a way to like run persistent [TS]

00:53:04   crawlers on on their servers and have the notify you [TS]

00:53:07   when new stuff comes in like that if they do have the notification thing but like the client has to pick up that data [TS]

00:53:13   or generate that data to tell other clients that it's available it is like you're serious. [TS]

00:53:18   Right exactly and you know and so can the web version you can have. [TS]

00:53:21   Obviously windows are and drivers [TS]

00:53:23   and so it's it's still a very limited system it's not going to replace servers for a lot of people it's not like you're [TS]

00:53:29   not going to build next Instagram with this because the next Instagram is going to have to we're going to have one [TS]

00:53:33   hundred some point but it is an improvement like you can take it is a different take on one core data. [TS]

00:53:41   I caught you know because now we have to have a skinless database with you know queries that they'll run for you to [TS]

00:53:47   none of your app and that's the bucket you put your thing in but it's like it's a different take [TS]

00:53:51   and I got a court date in that it's not something that started logo on my cloud it's dark cloud the whole time it's [TS]

00:53:56   always in the cloud and it's a very similar thing can be done with. [TS]

00:54:00   Both of them I don't know what the interface is the program like to the make it look like you have a bunch of objects [TS]

00:54:03   and they magically persist but I mean again they say all the right words [TS]

00:54:09   and it seems like this will be a more reliable easier to understand easier to debug way to do some of the same tasks [TS]

00:54:15   that people are currently doing with Cardiff. [TS]

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00:55:19   That's a very boring place I've been there a lot. [TS]

00:55:22   I'm pretty sure they mean the one in Ireland for this one so that's pretty cool it's way better than [TS]

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00:56:00   Again so I've a couple questions about I.O.'s and then I think we should talk about Swift before we wrap up. [TS]

00:56:06   Firstly do we know we don't really know anything about identification authentication that sort of thing with regard to [TS]

00:56:14   cloud can't write because it would be really neat. [TS]

00:56:17   Even if I didn't use barely anything else with relation i Cloud like say I'm Marko I'm writing overtasked it would [TS]

00:56:25   sensibly be really great to get the accounts system out of cloud kit [TS]

00:56:32   but do everything else myself you know just get a token from Cloud kit to identify who this person is [TS]

00:56:37   and then everything else take care of on my own. [TS]

00:56:39   We don't know don't write you that already if you want to try cloud I guess you just sort of make yourself a little [TS]

00:56:44   vestigial I got a document container that you never used. [TS]

00:56:47   Now what you could do is you could you could just generate like a random key. [TS]

00:56:52   There are random you know generating random ID and store in key value storage and you could read that later. [TS]

00:56:58   So that's the but and you know when you base [TS]

00:57:00   when you base your application i Cloud you get is big benefit of they're already logged into this thing [TS]

00:57:05   but it also comes with a lot of weird little downsides [TS]

00:57:08   and complexity is that the sign out of i Cloud to like put their stuff off to the side [TS]

00:57:14   and get back into it to restored for them [TS]

00:57:17   and you know right so there's there's a number of weirdness is that now the good thing is something else that that's [TS]

00:57:21   totally unrelated to this that they announced is the family sharing which I think yeah I think I saw a family sharing [TS]

00:57:28   you can you can you can have up to like six people if you all have the same credit card which is a good imitation of [TS]

00:57:34   prevent weird fraud issues you know up to six people have basically pulled the purchases for all the you know i Tunes [TS]

00:57:40   media as well as apps an app purchases which is awesome because I think this will this will dramatically cut down on [TS]

00:57:46   people who need to keep signing in [TS]

00:57:48   and out of different Apple ideas because they have like you know one idea that purchases everything that they share [TS]

00:57:52   with their wife or their kids or whatever and [TS]

00:57:53   and it's I think this is going to really help anyway so that's beside the point so if you use i Cloud as an occasion. [TS]

00:58:00   You're tied to that so [TS]

00:58:02   and sometimes that isn't what users expect So like if someone signing in to different i Cloud accounts [TS]

00:58:08   and they launch your podcast app and all of a sudden everything's gone because you know because they sign [TS]

00:58:13   and they send in two different countdown a movie and they forgot about that they launch they launch your app [TS]

00:58:16   and your app has no idea who they are where all the stuff is because well you've always been pretty good about giving [TS]

00:58:21   you a different Apple ID for each of the individual apps like I've learned that setting up all devices for my kids. [TS]

00:58:27   I'm surprised the number of places they have to go hunt down my Apple I.D. [TS]

00:58:30   and Remove them and put in you know different applet. [TS]

00:58:32   Oh I forgot the I message is still fine and in the Oh I forgot that you know that the App Store Asinus me [TS]

00:58:38   and they're pretty good about spreading around like the big thing with the family is I mean they haven't really [TS]

00:58:44   finished this job they've just started this job [TS]

00:58:47   but it's acknowledging that twittering thing of dodging the existence of families is acknowledging how regular people [TS]

00:58:52   use their products that we exist in families that kids have might have their own devices that you have to get the hammy [TS]

00:58:58   down devices that we don't want to buy me at multiple times. [TS]

00:59:02   One of the other nonsense is that in general the family has a family collection of photos whereas individual kids might [TS]

00:59:07   have individual collection of photos [TS]

00:59:09   but like you don't know I got to go on my wife's computer because the photo computer that's where our photos are I [TS]

00:59:13   haven't gotten that point yet for them to know I laugh as I don't type of thing [TS]

00:59:16   but at the very least acknowledge you kids want to buy stuff you don't want them to be able to sign Internet you can [TS]

00:59:23   notification on your device that says so and so want to buy something approve [TS]

00:59:27   or reject like that's what happens in real life anyway and so the building into the O. S. [TS]

00:59:31   You know electronically which is you know they must all have I.O.'s devices in their family has taken this long to [TS]

00:59:38   create a product that acknowledges how everybody knows everybody using the products to begin with. [TS]

00:59:43   Yeah I mean this is this is just one of those things that the the mac crap they unveiled today it's you know like I [TS]

00:59:48   said I said two weeks ago or last week that Apple lacked server side hustle and that's a good point [TS]

00:59:55   and I think that's probably still the case in general with their online services but I think. [TS]

01:00:00   Shows where all the hustles been spent that unfortunate word because all I can think about is the kid it was like [TS]

01:00:08   running for you know running for with a football or trying to go somewhere for a pass [TS]

01:00:13   and doesn't get there in time of the coaches are a good hustle good hustle but when I have a good hustle son [TS]

01:00:19   and sure they are showing hustle I just don't know if they were if they are the kid who wasn't fast enough. [TS]

01:00:24   The coaches want to sound encouraging anyway. [TS]

01:00:26   We need we want to see like them catch the touchdown pass not just as a good hustle son well you know it's [TS]

01:00:31   and it seems like you know server a server and service side stuff. [TS]

01:00:35   They are still keeping pretty limited [TS]

01:00:37   but I think they're doing like what we see today what we saw today that they're doing a lot more like like the whole i [TS]

01:00:43   Cloud Dropbox copy thing I did not expect that at all like that. [TS]

01:00:47   That was like a line I didn't and they were never cross with i Cloud [TS]

01:00:50   and it solves a lot of problems that we've talked about with things like that like the file file siloing and [TS]

01:00:55   and documents filing and how you know how to hang in there like that. [TS]

01:00:58   When they first showed it the file was a right there look at the folder called keynote that's the keynote silo [TS]

01:01:03   and look at the folder called pages as the pages so I mean the unification of those apps across of the unification of I [TS]

01:01:08   work to make them be able to have those silos in both places go though I do [TS]

01:01:10   and make any sense you'd have like i O S pages versus whatever right. [TS]

01:01:14   Yeah the silos are still all there the whole idea is that if you just want to be filed like you are now it's fine [TS]

01:01:18   but this is another way you can look at things and the question is like when I look at that when I look at i Cloud [TS]

01:01:23   and his keynote and pages or whatever can I make my own folders alongside them. [TS]

01:01:26   Yes you can do like well who sandbox is that [TS]

01:01:28   and is that in somebody that in the keynote sandbox is that in the whatever Semites [TS]

01:01:32   and the answer is No it's not in the document it enters over their pages and over there [TS]

01:01:37   but within pages on us you can add a little whatever that brings up the I was equivalent of the Open Save dialog box [TS]

01:01:43   and go to someplace else is not in your document container [TS]

01:01:46   and get a document like the folder that you made called you know garage sale that's going to be your product for all [TS]

01:01:50   your crap for the garage sale. [TS]

01:01:51   Yeah and so you like it's like having their cake [TS]

01:01:55   and eat it too if you want to work the old way it still works one hundred percent the old way if you want to. [TS]

01:02:00   The new way you can just pretend that all we're doing this. [TS]

01:02:02   Just make a bunch of noise is a problem [TS]

01:02:04   or never look in your document to parents all from like the little extension of the sandbox reaching out [TS]

01:02:08   and the other world [TS]

01:02:09   and allowing you to access the files you know I should point out I do not like to look at that quote unquote Open Save [TS]

01:02:15   dialog I think looks that they never show a list here so I don't know what it looks like with a fair point. [TS]

01:02:19   Be reasonable. [TS]

01:02:20   Yeah the other thing I want to talk about really quickly about I.O.'s and maybe you guys have some other stuff too [TS]

01:02:24   but the leaving and muting of group messages is one under again. [TS]

01:02:30   Knowledge made of how people like who is there a larger concentration of people who use i Phones and i with devices [TS]

01:02:35   and Apple employees they must all know what it's like to be friends with the green bubbles you can talk about the not [TS]

01:02:41   be able to leave the group chats. [TS]

01:02:42   You know I have to get with the message with the keep button like acknowledging that you had the wrong default like you [TS]

01:02:48   thought the default would be keep everything about people individually [TS]

01:02:51   and it turns out that the right default is delete everything but people individually keep Yeah [TS]

01:02:55   and I'm just so excited I'm excited that you can leave a conversation although it was never made clear to me that this [TS]

01:03:01   is S.M.S. and I message like maybe this that's why I think I want to clear. [TS]

01:03:06   Right but not only can you leave a conversation [TS]

01:03:09   but you can also new to conversation I think they called it a different term [TS]

01:03:13   but in effect you don't get the buzz in your pocket and so on and but [TS]

01:03:19   but nevertheless you'll still receive the message. It should be S.M.S. [TS]

01:03:21   To because they'll just like not like it's a software thing like my already getting the S.M.S. [TS]

01:03:25   Is there just not you know you could do it all client side essentially. [TS]

01:03:28   I completely agree with you but I was never made clear [TS]

01:03:30   and so you know I don't I don't count my chickens where they hatch [TS]

01:03:32   but I'm extremely extremely excited about that because I get on these group messages and it's like one [TS]

01:03:38   or two people I know and then like ten random phone numbers [TS]

01:03:41   and of course nobody's courteous enough to just reply to the author individually [TS]

01:03:46   and then I'm on these damn conversations that last two days often at odd hours in the morning [TS]

01:03:50   and that's the most frustrating thing in the world so I'm really excited about that. [TS]

01:03:53   Anything else about I.O.'s that you got I think they did everything that we ever wanted for I.O.'s except for that we [TS]

01:03:59   talked about. [TS]

01:04:00   Except for letting you pick a different of all the positive third party keyboards that [TS]

01:04:04   when it's on the lock screen didn't do it as in the homes there that it would to the lock screen. [TS]

01:04:08   You know being able to share documents trying applications for interrupting an occasion they just didn't do it [TS]

01:04:13   when he's crime is my default browser I don't want to Zap Mail was my default right [TS]

01:04:17   and that was I mean wishing for that was always been a stretch they might still do it somebody [TS]

01:04:20   but I think that is exactly I think their part of the war that even more of a stretch like that is that is exactly in [TS]

01:04:25   the ballpark of the things they did like they did things that are as radical as letting you change or to fall back [TS]

01:04:31   but you know I mean and you know the entire extension system is just like shockingly robust [TS]

01:04:39   and just changes everything I mean there's there's this it's going to take us. [TS]

01:04:44   I was talking about this earlier I think you know all of a sudden now for all of our U.S. [TS]

01:04:49   History for all you know for a lot of listeners of the show certainly for me people who have been working on i OS apps [TS]

01:04:55   all this time so far there's been this these entire categories of apps that were impossible [TS]

01:05:01   or impractical to make an I O. [TS]

01:05:03   Us entire capabilities that we lacked that we couldn't do well stupid hacks like for instance paper having to make the [TS]

01:05:11   stupid bookmarklet stupid hacks like that. Hell the entire U.R.L. [TS]

01:05:15   Scheme thing that we're all that we've been hacking around now like so many of these things are totally obsolete now as [TS]

01:05:21   an extension system [TS]

01:05:23   and there's So not only do we have all these existing things we've been doing that will now be able to be a lot better [TS]

01:05:29   and a lot more robust [TS]

01:05:30   but there's entire classes of apps that have never been possible to make before that are now possible [TS]

01:05:38   or entire classes of activities that before you could do what it was so clunky would never really take off [TS]

01:05:43   and would never really be that much of a good product. [TS]

01:05:45   Now those things can be native and can be good [TS]

01:05:47   and it's going to take I would say at least a year for many of us who have been doing this for a while to forget that [TS]

01:05:57   we can do these things it's like cars. [TS]

01:06:00   Now we have something to keep building that all came at once in addition to this whole new language that we have to [TS]

01:06:03   learn which will get to like we have all these new things that we can now do like it's going to take a while for us to [TS]

01:06:08   feel to finally internalize these things so that we can start building wait a minute we can do X. Y. and Z. [TS]

01:06:13   Like oh man this would be a good idea for an apple this would be great and hence into our existing app. [TS]

01:06:18   Now we can do this like it's that list is so long of what you can now do that this is just it's going to be [TS]

01:06:25   ridiculously good for us I think long term and it's going to take a while to the full facts [TS]

01:06:29   and they did the obvious invalidation like we were talking about oh what if they let you do an activity sheet thing [TS]

01:06:34   where you can you know have your thing like add ins to be bred the Penders [TS]

01:06:37   and like well they do that in every dog his brother is going to have a little stupid icon in the things you [TS]

01:06:41   and he's some kind of preference you turn them on and off [TS]

01:06:43   and like with the simplicity of IO as Notification Center as it was the first thing that showed like they're not afraid [TS]

01:06:49   to give you a wall of check boxes or you know switches in Iowa [TS]

01:06:52   and so they do that like the obvious implication is you register you're able to hand your old you let the user have a [TS]

01:06:57   gigantic wall of on off switch is to tell which ones they want to see. [TS]

01:07:00   Probably done and done like we're all saying like well you can't do that and just like you know they can do that [TS]

01:07:05   and the great thing about Apple doing it is like the ecosystem they're creating now is not just like one apple vendor [TS]

01:07:10   managed to do something with [TS]

01:07:11   and they're like oh my three apps cooperate all the apps are going to be able to cooperate so you were going to be able [TS]

01:07:16   to reap the benefits or latch on to enhance some other app because if you can work on the same data [TS]

01:07:22   and integrate with each other you don't need cooperate you don't need third parties to cooperate with each other [TS]

01:07:27   outside the realm of the star app developer that never knew each other. [TS]

01:07:30   Can Now the user can now use their apps to work together on a single thing [TS]

01:07:34   and that's what it's been like in the macro is but now to be like that and i OS where it's really impressive [TS]

01:07:38   and I feel I feel like we're seeing a whole new owner of progressive is the right word [TS]

01:07:44   but a whole new progressive Apple that's willing to do the things that we never thought they would be willing to do [TS]

01:07:50   and I'm really excited about it now granted I'm always amped up and really excited [TS]

01:07:54   and jazzed after after the keynote and so on but but I I feel more excited today. [TS]

01:08:00   About not only what we've what they've announced [TS]

01:08:03   but what we can imagine in the future because all of these impenetrable doors that have been triple locked in cement [TS]

01:08:10   sealed in welded shut a few of them were blown open today. [TS]

01:08:13   And so if they're willing to do a new keyboard gosh knows what's going to be willing to do in the future [TS]

01:08:19   and so I'm really really excited mean. [TS]

01:08:20   It's almost like they came out with a new they did come out with a new language that in there John. [TS]

01:08:25   So and I [TS]

01:08:26   but I think a lot of this is you know a lot of this is decision changes at Apple even possibly it's leadership changes [TS]

01:08:32   but I think you know what John said earlier is very correct word like you know they were able to do all this stuff [TS]

01:08:36   because of both hardware varies with the now the ability to have you know more things in memory at once. [TS]

01:08:41   And also the all the security features that they've added that they have like the infrastructure to enable the writers [TS]

01:08:49   like many of these features now and now that they are doing them [TS]

01:08:53   and the way they're doing them now many of them have no downside. [TS]

01:08:57   Like there's there's no cost to doing this now it's you know there was always a good reason not to before [TS]

01:09:02   but once you can once you have the infrastructure [TS]

01:09:04   and once you know once the hardware is hard enough to allow a lot of these things like like you know they didn't give [TS]

01:09:10   us a home screen widgets on spring board because the home screens always showing. [TS]

01:09:14   But when you pull in the Notification Center like now they can take intelligently refresh those only [TS]

01:09:19   when you pull a notification center a lot of people never pulled a notification center so they never have to update [TS]

01:09:24   them. [TS]

01:09:24   Like there's all sorts of optimizations they can do all sorts of you know just restrictions [TS]

01:09:29   and limits on where they're choosing to do these things and how to choose any of these things make them possible [TS]

01:09:34   and make them come with low or no cost. [TS]

01:09:36   Overall the experience part of Apple secrecy thing is that like it's obvious now in hindsight how they were laying the [TS]

01:09:42   groundwork for all these things by laying the ground by law allowing technology to advance by the harbor getting better [TS]

01:09:47   but also building all the A.B.I. [TS]

01:09:48   That handsome so that they're able to deliver this [TS]

01:09:50   and you could say oh this is the grand plan along three years ago we were complaining about this stuff. [TS]

01:09:55   Savile couldn't say it was a secret they were doing this and we don't know whether that's the case or not but. [TS]

01:10:00   It seems like from the outside that like their priorities haven't changed. [TS]

01:10:04   Every time we've gotten a new feature it's been like now within the bounds of the priorities we set out for Iowa in [TS]

01:10:09   terms of safety response and as we are now able to deliver this feature that you wanted a long time [TS]

01:10:14   and it like gospel has changed direction. [TS]

01:10:16   They've simply stuck to their priorities and waited not just waited for in terms of the hardware [TS]

01:10:21   but also said if we're going to ever do this let's figure out the steps who have to take it over a series of I.O.'s [TS]

01:10:27   releases they lay the groundwork slowly slowly and are now finding come out [TS]

01:10:31   and I with it it seems like a whole bunch of those things came to a head of the same time. [TS]

01:10:35   Like fire they had the infrastructure to do all of these things and they did all of them. It's been really impressive. [TS]

01:10:43   So we should talk about this new language. [TS]

01:10:46   John what do you think I feel I feel vindicated in some ways because if you think about like you know the company [TS]

01:10:56   twenty ten thing in twenty ten came and went and nothing happened [TS]

01:11:00   and had one was revisited was that twenty twenty ten twenty ten I want to revisit a writer I write written the engine [TS]

01:11:06   only twenty three years only and twenty three two thousand one hundred twenty five as you say. [TS]

01:11:14   Where's Jason when you know how many numbers are like anyway. [TS]

01:11:18   Like right the whole the whole the whole debate you know among stuff on the outside of Apple about like why do you [TS]

01:11:28   think they need a new language and runtime Why can't they just use objective seeing it and do it to enhance it and. [TS]

01:11:35   M When I became out with was not a continued enhancement of Objective C. [TS]

01:11:39   It was a new language unequivocally a new language. It all looks different. It's got a different name. [TS]

01:11:46   You know the only thing they haven't changed the A.P.I. Seems to be under the covers the same A.B.I. [TS]

01:11:51   but The way you use it is different because there are so many language features that essentially convert to a big whole [TS]

01:11:58   mess of Objective C. Code. So they're sort of getting a new A.P.I. [TS]

01:12:02   Without getting into IT guy which is very clever like they're not saying this language is so different We're going to [TS]

01:12:08   need all new A.P.I. Is all new function names is all new arguments or whatever. [TS]

01:12:11   Instead they said here's this compact way to say something that a value centrally is this big long block of not block [TS]

01:12:18   but you know the big wad of Objective C. Code you don't have to write that big wad anymore. [TS]

01:12:22   All that intent is expressed in this thing and it's not a new A.P.I. [TS]

01:12:26   and That I think is very clever now I haven't had time to look at the language itself. [TS]

01:12:32   It looks a lot like a language written by people who like C. and C. Plus plus an Objective C. [TS]

01:12:38   I'm not necessarily one of those people but for people it should be familiar to them. [TS]

01:12:42   I heard you say on Twitter that it looked a lot like go in his comparison was C. [TS]

01:12:47   Sharp is to Java as SWIFT is to go and again not having looked at a very long that seems vaguely apt [TS]

01:12:56   but the bottom line is they have a new language and they're committing to it going forward. [TS]

01:13:02   It builds on everything they've done before building [TS]

01:13:04   and all of the Emma builds on their own compiler infrastructure build on our ideas on our you know an arc on it like [TS]

01:13:10   and you know it is that the compromise talk about Objective C. Without the C. [TS]

01:13:13   Which was actually on a slide the actual phrases that object believe it I have I was trying to marry who originally [TS]

01:13:19   came of that phrase on the Web It wasn't me it was [TS]

01:13:22   but it was in the discussion like one of the just keep shaving the edges of Objective C. [TS]

01:13:25   Like it's object you see [TS]

01:13:26   but you don't need pointers like swift doesn't have the friggin stars like it's not you know you can mix it with [TS]

01:13:31   Objective C. [TS]

01:13:31   Code there are pointers behind the scene but you don't back or you can't dereference them start doing random crap [TS]

01:13:36   and this is their compromise unsafe code mix with Safeco but the save code is so very clearly safe [TS]

01:13:42   and it's super fast to get under the covers. [TS]

01:13:44   It's compiling down to you know all of the M intermediary code which could optimize I mean you know it's the same. [TS]

01:13:51   It's calling the same A.P.I. As some was asking when they get to the R.C. [TS]

01:13:55   For a benchmark like look how much faster Swift is it R C four benchmark going to be I can see how could object. [TS]

01:14:00   C B So slow undoing the R.C. For benchmark. [TS]

01:14:04   What is it about swift that makes it faster I mean people who say OK fine so swift is justice fast good how can how can [TS]

01:14:09   swift be faster I don't know the answer to that having just come out looking up [TS]

01:14:12   but my guess is that swift lets you express what you want to do in a way that doesn't have all the baggage of C. In C. [TS]

01:14:20   Plus plus and all those other languages because they have to be so cautious about well I could do this optimization [TS]

01:14:26   but what if the thing that I call actually writes this memory address and that [TS]

01:14:29   and swift can say I can tell you that's not going to happen because they have no way to get it that there's no way for [TS]

01:14:34   them to be reference something goes over the section. Trust me it's going to believe this or that. We're back. [TS]

01:14:42   Trust me it's going to be safe to do this optimization because the program has expressed his intent [TS]

01:14:47   and we don't have to worry about all these cases [TS]

01:14:49   and this easy process compiler that are unsafe that the compiler cannot make strong guarantees about you know it has to [TS]

01:14:56   do the cautious thing and I don't know if that's why the R.C. [TS]

01:14:59   For benchmark is faster but that is that that's what I was talking about. [TS]

01:15:03   What can you do with a new language it's not just syntactic sugar it's because you can allow the pervert to express [TS]

01:15:08   their intent without having all these details of the implementation of a merry unsafe language that the runtime in [TS]

01:15:14   comparing says not to worry about. Yeah I think you're exactly right. [TS]

01:15:17   The performance gains don't make a lot of sense otherwise but but it has to be about that about optimizations [TS]

01:15:22   and you know and all the assumptions that the compiler can make [TS]

01:15:26   and you know the often optimizing compiler so advanced these days [TS]

01:15:29   and the more information you can give them about what they need to do what they don't need to do. [TS]

01:15:34   The better opt in the code they can generate makes a huge difference I think there was a big presentation by someone in [TS]

01:15:39   the O.M. Thing might interest latter somebody else that was going through like undefined behavior according to the C. [TS]

01:15:44   Specifications he says because if you do X. or Y. [TS]

01:15:46   Is undefined behavior and there are so many cases that it comes up and it ties the rating of the M. [TS]

01:15:51   and The optimizer in the code generator it ties their hands it's like Boy we would love to does optimization [TS]

01:15:57   but according to the speed C. Spec it's not safe for us to do it. [TS]

01:16:00   And and so they may just be sitting there just waiting to unleash these optimizations [TS]

01:16:04   and with swift they can define a language that is not impaired in that way that it doesn't have all these education say. [TS]

01:16:10   Now finally we can pause after all that the nation it is safe to do this guaranteed to do it and figure out faster. [TS]

01:16:16   Yet the other thing that was really impressive about SWIFT which comes back to what you were saying earlier about [TS]

01:16:20   constant priorities is that the protections around doing something stupid a great example being over running away. [TS]

01:16:27   So if you are a twenty items and you ask for item twenty five it's going to catch that [TS]

01:16:33   and not let you do something either stupid or dangerous and it's it's going to probably fail dramatically [TS]

01:16:38   but that's a much better approach than just letting you run amok in memory that really doesn't belong to you [TS]

01:16:44   and that's just one example of many different protections they've made in order to prevent something like the Hartley [TS]

01:16:49   book they didn't want to give up anything. [TS]

01:16:51   So like compile time static analysis strong typing like you know so we can catch that you know if there was if there [TS]

01:16:57   was an array out of bounds error they would catch that at compile time if they could you know if it wasn't a runtime [TS]

01:17:01   value being put in there because they didn't give up any of the typing stuff like I saw this tweet did I don't read it [TS]

01:17:05   myself as I was saying in the swift swift book that Apple put out on the bookstore [TS]

01:17:09   and you can go get for free right now it was saying. [TS]

01:17:11   Swift designed to be a language that you can use to write everything from operating systems up the applications like a [TS]

01:17:16   single language that it's not like oh you just use this to make you fancy gooey apps when you write the O. S. [TS]

01:17:20   You have to do it in C. It seems like Apple saying we can be swift from top to bottom. [TS]

01:17:25   Everything we make all the software we make is apple from the operating system itself. [TS]

01:17:29   All we have to all of our gooey applications in theory could be written in Swiss because that's how it's designed it's [TS]

01:17:33   designed to be as efficient as the low level languages but even more pleasant to use than object was [TS]

01:17:39   and that is an ambitious goal and I applaud them for it I'm not sure they would because I have read in them [TS]

01:17:43   and not about the language [TS]

01:17:44   but I mean what more can you ask the new language you know from top to bottom fully committed to it always it always [TS]

01:17:52   seems like this is one of the reasons why I don't learn languages very often much to your chagrin. [TS]

01:17:57   It always seems like a waste of. [TS]

01:18:00   Of technology and resources and effort to have these languages that have you know great feature X. Y. and Z. [TS]

01:18:08   and Then Oh but it doesn't run on Linux or you can't use it to build you eat [TS]

01:18:12   or like there's all these like the limitations that like it's not really the fault of the language is more of a library [TS]

01:18:17   issue usually or an implementation or V.M. [TS]

01:18:19   Issue [TS]

01:18:20   or something like you know it is it does seem like a waste to have you know to become an expert in language that you [TS]

01:18:26   then can't use for X. Y. or Z. [TS]

01:18:29   You know from my point of view of not wanting to learn languages very often [TS]

01:18:31   but I think this is going to be looking at this. [TS]

01:18:34   Obviously yes I'm going to learn this because I think I think every Objective C. [TS]

01:18:39   Programmer of today should start learning what to soon as they can because it's absolutely you know it's not going to [TS]

01:18:44   it's not like Objective C. Is going to be deprecated or start or go away in a year. [TS]

01:18:50   You know look at look at how long Apple has supported the old C A P I's. All the core foundation stuff C. [TS]

01:18:56   Plus plus a compilation of everything like that this is going to be here for a reason to be around for a while I mean [TS]

01:19:01   but they map to each other that's the for you thing about it like over the shoulder thing where there's that you can [TS]

01:19:05   look at the project to see header [TS]

01:19:06   and we'll translate it mechanically to the swifter because like they didn't change the A.P.I. [TS]

01:19:11   Underneath that is like you could write the equivalent object to speak of the object the sequel there would be unsafe [TS]

01:19:16   because you could reference anything to crazy stuff. [TS]

01:19:18   The SWIFT code is safe because what you write doesn't include in that stuff [TS]

01:19:21   and that's that's fairly genius like saying that we're going to want to make. [TS]

01:19:25   I mean in that respect it's like oh this is a low level language with a high level syntax in the other interesting [TS]

01:19:31   thing to me was that as much as we all the Mon X. Code they spent enough time to make the X. [TS]

01:19:37   Code tooling good just like you said when you look at documentation it will mechanically translate from Objective C. [TS]

01:19:44   To Swift. [TS]

01:19:44   Additionally they have what is a playground as I write which is basically like not quite a command line like [TS]

01:19:51   interactive interpreter. [TS]

01:19:52   It's better than that and it's gooey based and so they were showing demos of rewinding and playing animations. [TS]

01:20:00   And doing things that I would love to be able to do. [TS]

01:20:03   Yeah and that's just this is just Xcode swift tooling there's a bunch of other tooling I think most of which is N.D. [TS]

01:20:09   Aid that's also extremely impressive and they didn't just throw this language out there [TS]

01:20:15   and say hey you're probably going to need to learn this [TS]

01:20:16   and you know we're not really going to help you just there's some documentation to figure it out. [TS]

01:20:21   There's the i Book that John mentioned there's this playground thing within X. [TS]

01:20:24   Code there's a whole bunch of documentation on their website I mean they're really they taking this seriously [TS]

01:20:31   and the rumblings I've heard from from a few friends is that not everyone in Apple knew about this [TS]

01:20:38   but those that did have been working on it for a long time and I think that's pretty apparent pretty quickly. [TS]

01:20:42   Yeah [TS]

01:20:43   and all the more impressive that was kept secret on those two absolutely I mean there are people from from what I've [TS]

01:20:47   gathered there are people in Apple that had no freaking clue that this was about to happen to me is just mind boggling. [TS]

01:20:53   Again that's the genius of the transparency they didn't need to know because it's not as if like what they saw them [TS]

01:20:59   translate that header file it's like they could translate your Objective C. [TS]

01:21:03   Course source to Swiss mechanically Perhaps if they wanted to. Probably not because you have the C. [TS]

01:21:08   Part so they wouldn't be able to you know like I would like to do a lot of it so the rest of the organization doesn't [TS]

01:21:13   need to know because under that like it's all binary compatible that's in the state of the union thing where someone [TS]

01:21:18   just tweeted that you can stream the state of the Union without any kind of password so there must be public. [TS]

01:21:22   They are they mentioned that they said it was going to be binary compound [TS]

01:21:28   but not necessarily source compatible because what they're saying is like we don't know whether we even have the syntax [TS]

01:21:33   of the thing they'll down even though we've been developing it for who knows how long internally they're reserving the [TS]

01:21:38   right to change their mind about the syntax before the release of a video ices that are built on it during the period [TS]

01:21:44   and of course they'll go on you know swift one point I was supposed to point to like the Dome of the object to see that [TS]

01:21:48   expanded like crazy but Swift is designed. [TS]

01:21:50   They're saying it was defined in terms of itself which any Perl six fans out there the five of you guys [TS]

01:21:55   when you know Perl six is also defined in terms of itself. [TS]

01:22:00   If you know the language spec was written you know the language itself is written in Perl six you don't have the [TS]

01:22:05   mutable syntax of Perl six but that whole philosophy that swift serves and to be self posting [TS]

01:22:12   and of these things that we think that are intrinsic to the language like a raisin collections [TS]

01:22:15   or whatever are actually not [TS]

01:22:16   but rather are like its library base their part libraries are built on it so it's it's it's a modern construct of how [TS]

01:22:22   to build language don't just define a syntax and say this in the language forever more [TS]

01:22:26   and they have different versions of the rather design a lot like L V M L O V M is a compiler system made as a series of [TS]

01:22:31   libraries. [TS]

01:22:32   Swift made by the same people the process is a language made as a series of libraries and the libraries will change [TS]

01:22:37   and be added to over time and the core language itself is very very small and tight. [TS]

01:22:42   Yeah this is also a very wise way to do it in that they didn't replace the frameworks they didn't you know they come in [TS]

01:22:48   they couldn't do much work right and that's a thing only [TS]

01:22:50   and that's why we were always kind of worried like well they sure do seem to be adding a lot of framework [TS]

01:22:55   and this is going to be a big job to ever give us tonight to new language [TS]

01:22:59   and instead design a language didn't need that conversion and that's like [TS]

01:23:02   and that's going to help us too like it's not going to take very long for us to learn Swift because we'll learn the [TS]

01:23:07   syntax in a weekend and you know we'll get the bits and pieces like the fringes over time [TS]

01:23:12   but we already know the entire library that the libraries have not changed we know we know the entire We know all the [TS]

01:23:19   frameworks already and that's a huge win. [TS]

01:23:21   I mean they're still they're still there [TS]

01:23:22   when they're not getting which is like using some of the guys from Swift may seem silly like it other words if these [TS]

01:23:29   abs are designed in a world with Swift with a guide look the way they do. [TS]

01:23:33   I mean even stuff like I don't know how they're going to end like Error parameters you know. [TS]

01:23:36   Yeah they're promise of like I'm sure that there's massaging to be done there so they're not like it's the right [TS]

01:23:43   compromise for them but it is still a compromise in that if you were designing new A.P.I. [TS]

01:23:47   In a world where Swift was the beginning instead of the endpoint of language evolution your A.P.I. [TS]

01:23:52   Would look different but that's just not an option for them [TS]

01:23:54   and so this compromise like Arc kind of is is the right compromise for Apple this time. [TS]

01:24:00   I'm I'm just I'm just happy the only thing I really saw the like is an ally convincing anybody of anything [TS]

01:24:06   but like I mean I'm just happy that it happened because I thought it needed to happen. [TS]

01:24:10   And and I'm excited that it did [TS]

01:24:13   and assuming that this process has been going on for years that means I've been having conversations with people from [TS]

01:24:18   Apple who knew that Swift was happening and now and could not tell me [TS]

01:24:24   and who would talk about imagine what they must have been thinking some talk that I'm very well before you could do [TS]

01:24:29   with a whole new language instead of just extending objectives the and they would. [TS]

01:24:33   Yeah they do they do it and then they get some point they're going to start making A.P.I. [TS]

01:24:40   That only work in Swift you know they like like the so many guys in previous transitions like going [TS]

01:24:46   when going from carbon to cook Oh I'm sorry Exactly. [TS]

01:24:49   Yeah walks right [TS]

01:24:51   and yeah there are certain things that that really there's not going to certainly be there probably is not going to [TS]

01:24:56   make if you're to see versions anymore and the amazing thing about these tools [TS]

01:25:00   and the way they've built the thing is that you can opt in to use with it just like you can opt in her compilation [TS]

01:25:05   which is purse or file [TS]

01:25:07   and so you can have an app like you don't have like I don't have to convert my entire after swift to to use any of it. [TS]

01:25:13   I can convert one file I can just start writing new modules and swift [TS]

01:25:17   and eventually you know port the whole application slowly over time as I update things like there's so many. [TS]

01:25:23   The way they're doing this is so immensely practical for the environment that we're actually in today [TS]

01:25:29   and now think of hindsight. [TS]

01:25:30   Remember how gross the block syntax looks and looked with a carrot and all that crazy stuff. [TS]

01:25:34   I remember the Datsun tax it was like I don't know about the dot in the regular thing some people stuck with a square [TS]

01:25:38   bag in hindsight you're like don't worry about the only block syntax guys [TS]

01:25:42   and with little difficulty braces don't worry about the stupid dots and X. [TS]

01:25:46   Guys and swift it'll all be dots like every If you look backwards. The Objective C. [TS]

01:25:50   Answers and some of them are awkward and weird [TS]

01:25:52   or whatever all of them are just like laying the groundwork to get swift up to speed [TS]

01:25:56   and that's what makes you expect must of been a multi-year long process. [TS]

01:26:00   You know it will get poetic if I think back to like this project starting two thousand and ten. [TS]

01:26:05   That's actually based on some things we're hearing it sound that that might be around [TS]

01:26:08   when it started certainly in the ballpark [TS]

01:26:12   and you think about how in the hell in this kind of effort takes anyway you know you would have to have been at least [TS]

01:26:16   you know I'm sure they didn't start this in twenty thirteen twenty twelve like probably you know probably ten eleven [TS]

01:26:23   but you know this is this is I'm I'm so happy with how they're doing this it's just it's extremely pragmatic yet really [TS]

01:26:31   exactly it really is [TS]

01:26:32   and you know it's a way to to use their their strengths you know Apple Apple is really good at recognizing [TS]

01:26:40   when they have something good and [TS]

01:26:42   and being able to leverage your strengths in New in new creative ways like the death tools team especially is just so [TS]

01:26:48   so good I mean you know what I'm what I'm the only thing on the set about here besides I have to learn something new [TS]

01:26:54   which I guess is probably a good thing that you want to set about is I finally figured out block syntax why don't we [TS]

01:27:01   stop having to go to our Evan blocks or act right. [TS]

01:27:04   I finally don't have to go there like last month I finally got I can write block as method parameters I can run it. [TS]

01:27:10   Variables like. [TS]

01:27:11   I finally figured out blocks in fact reliably this month [TS]

01:27:15   and now it's all I want don't feel bad Margo I know how to do profile formats. [TS]

01:27:20   No nos of the five people out there to the prospects of understand that [TS]

01:27:25   and that that information became useless as well. [TS]

01:27:26   Yet so today your knowledge of blocks the syntax of blocks went out the window. Marco is wearing the A.T.P. [TS]

01:27:33   Shirt [TS]

01:27:34   and now all the code on the back is basically deprecated it oh yeah I was right then Swift now is that what's wrong [TS]

01:27:40   with you [TS]

01:27:41   but no it's been an extremely exciting day I can't wait to learn more about it because just like John was saying you [TS]

01:27:47   know we've had no time today to look at this and so at a glance this all looks really compelling [TS]

01:27:53   and I presume that as we look deeper and deeper it's going to look more and more compelling than ever now. [TS]

01:27:58   But I'm so excited to see what. [TS]

01:28:00   The next four days bring in see what what we're going to learn about all of this I mean I notice that in the sessions [TS]

01:28:07   there's like a beginner level swift advance levels with their intermediary and advancing all this week [TS]

01:28:13   and maybe that's under India and if so my bad. [TS]

01:28:15   But suffice to say they're doing multi tier swift sessions on the span of a week so I don't know who they think is [TS]

01:28:21   going to intermediate level in the span of like twenty four hours now but I think it's like if you've never seen. [TS]

01:28:26   Like if you're a new developer period like me go through the basics whereas if you if you have experience with seven [TS]

01:28:31   languages I think you could jump right into the advance with thing and then be like Oh I understand. [TS]

01:28:34   Like right you know if you don't know what closures are them just showing you that in advance [TS]

01:28:39   and I don't even know what it is you're talking about let alone how it behaves [TS]

01:28:42   and you know what I mean like like that with a list of code and intent and double underscore weeks are strong [TS]

01:28:49   and you know like what is the scope of the variable how they're retaining the swiftness like you don't need to worry [TS]

01:28:54   about I mean I'm hoping you don't need to I mean look well because it does use the arc model underneath so like things [TS]

01:28:59   like weak like weak references right for doing that [TS]

01:29:01   and thing do you need to annotate that anymore as I'm getting out like [TS]

01:29:05   or is it built into the language like that there again you know there are there are certain things like you know like [TS]

01:29:09   you can't it within the arc model you can't prevent retain cycles in certain scenarios without having the kind of a [TS]

01:29:16   weak reference [TS]

01:29:16   and so like you know right what we've seen so far Swift is we've seen the curated good stuff that demos Well we haven't [TS]

01:29:24   seen like the ugly stuff that like that they have to have yet you know and it might get less pretty [TS]

01:29:29   but the fact is like I'm sure it'll be close [TS]

01:29:32   and I didn't it'll be good to remove so much noise like even just with type inference are you talking about last year [TS]

01:29:38   was like going to get a paper and been subjected to that kind of like that was the next thing on the list [TS]

01:29:42   but it's like part of the big part of the big giant language that uncovered everything you say before [TS]

01:29:46   and like getting rid of the types everywhere getting rid of obviously retain at least one away with ARC you know [TS]

01:29:52   and I'm hoping like the silly annotations needed for the compile it if I want to do like you said if you know you [TS]

01:29:58   probably need something to break so. [TS]

01:30:00   Goals but I don't know what that's going to look like [TS]

01:30:02   and it could be that they just have strong guarantees in the language [TS]

01:30:05   and if you know it will allow you to create cycles of use the structures in this way [TS]

01:30:08   and if you create them in this way you do create them there's no way to break them so just don't do that we don't know [TS]

01:30:13   if I'm just going to look for different certain delegate math anyway. [TS]

01:30:17   I'm sure they'll need it [TS]

01:30:17   but you know just you know I learned today is that I feel like I learned today that Apple was not only floored [TS]

01:30:25   but they are standing on the gas [TS]

01:30:27   and so many things like there are a bunch of things I talked about with regard to layout so like if you're not doing on [TS]

01:30:34   a way out which I'm not [TS]

01:30:35   and I need to learn it if you're not doing all the way out you gotta get on that on that train because you're get left [TS]

01:30:40   behind if you have you know if you're not using dot syntax you've got to get on a train or get left. [TS]

01:30:45   I'm getting on a swift train like Margaret I have liked learns with [TS]

01:30:47   and like we should talk about that section of STATE OF THE UNION which is apparently public about what what was it [TS]

01:30:53   called size. What are they called. Oh no adaptive U.I. Is there either one of them or the like size modes or size. [TS]

01:31:00   Yeah it's basically you know if they were like screaming with a megaphone. [TS]

01:31:06   We are making a bigger I've already and also possibly thought by thought apps on that Deborah not sure yet. [TS]

01:31:12   Yeah yeah yeah start using this stuff. I'm actually curious I don't even look at the A.P.I. [TS]

01:31:18   That I hope you don't have to use storyboards to get a lot of that I don't think you do I think I just like you could [TS]

01:31:22   do it all in code I go to the right part is the way to lay it out and it may be complicated [TS]

01:31:26   but yeah like like we said on the previous show it could be that they just don't say anything about these things [TS]

01:31:30   and just have a bunch of A.P.I. [TS]

01:31:31   Is about making your appearance they totally do like just there was a long section of that thing about yeah [TS]

01:31:37   and it was extremely awkward his they were dancing all around the fact that they are basically saying there we are [TS]

01:31:44   bigger i Phones coming prepare yourself [TS]

01:31:47   and even like even the side by side happenings which will require exactly the same thing [TS]

01:31:50   and like their sizes were like so big it was like a contact for tickly compact horizontally. [TS]

01:31:56   Yes like let's just forget about resolution like it's all I'll tell you. [TS]

01:32:00   They're making a square i Phone there's a new like you can do square you know what I was the i Watch is a gigantic [TS]

01:32:04   Square was like I mean this is this is another example of your android I think from the beginning I always had kind of [TS]

01:32:10   like you I could be any size because our phones are you know we're not going to see your eye view I better adapt you [TS]

01:32:16   have like a bag grid type of things where you put items in and constraints [TS]

01:32:19   and Apple is just like the i Phone is here it's fixed this fixed exercises just deal with it right. [TS]

01:32:24   And they worked over the series of releases to slowly creep up on this concept [TS]

01:32:28   and what they've come up with kind of a weird mongrel of like Aphex layout half or a layout [TS]

01:32:33   and people in the transition but during that whole period they had the right product for the right time [TS]

01:32:37   and now is finally the right time for an Android was that from the beginning which is like what you're not going to [TS]

01:32:42   with such a device and try to make the U.I. Looks good everywhere. Apple made a U.I. [TS]

01:32:45   That looks good in all of its previous devices [TS]

01:32:48   and now Apple is trying to show people how to continue to make us look good in any size device [TS]

01:32:54   and not you know quote unquote any size [TS]

01:32:56   and it's a difference in philosophy because you know Android apps trying to make a U.I. [TS]

01:33:01   The scale to anything any size and shape is really hard and that's why a lot of Android U.I. [TS]

01:33:05   Is where we're especially like the stressed out apps on the Android tablets [TS]

01:33:09   and everything Apple never did that at every step of the way. [TS]

01:33:11   Apple says we have a way of you know make awesome looking out in every possible size thing [TS]

01:33:15   and that way keeps changing as the number of sizes change and this is the newest way [TS]

01:33:19   and one of the most complicated way but still for most cable [TS]

01:33:22   but I think this way is also probably like the end game of that of that path because like you know first it was in the [TS]

01:33:27   Springs interesting a very very basic model of scalable windows and views and everything. [TS]

01:33:32   Then you have all the layout which is much more advanced [TS]

01:33:35   but the main limitation without a lead is like you know without being all crazy with that with dynamic checks [TS]

01:33:40   and everything. You basically were applying the same constraints the same layout two of you. [TS]

01:33:45   Regardless of what size it was [TS]

01:33:46   and now you have more of a concept of like responsive web design which is like four for this size class you can use the [TS]

01:33:55   set of constraints for this idea last are going to just come in this way [TS]

01:33:57   or you need this entirely different set of sort of concerns like that's. [TS]

01:34:00   That I think is like it's the end of that road and they can make it better [TS]

01:34:04   but I think that's that's like the kind of system that that you pretty much need for the beginning because now all they [TS]

01:34:12   have to do that size class right I mean is that it doesn't mean you're stupid until I come back or that even mean [TS]

01:34:17   but that they use the same constant values for the you know the numbers are of the hole they are in to keep adding size [TS]

01:34:22   classes [TS]

01:34:22   and then it's like well now we have the top of the works on your wall five display with the new Apple wallpaper that [TS]

01:34:27   you paint on twenty seventy five and that is a whole different class. [TS]

01:34:31   So we should probably wrap but what do you think Marco. Thumbs up thumbs down. [TS]

01:34:36   Are we are you excited are you happy are you disappointed what you think. [TS]

01:34:40   I'm extremely happy and excited I am a little afraid of my workload. [TS]

01:34:46   Yeah [TS]

01:34:47   but you know most the most the things they've added like I was very go into this like you know what if I always add something [TS]

01:34:53   ridiculous that I must have and I have to you know delay my app until eight ships [TS]

01:34:58   and I don't you know assuming that you can get like the widgets types in the all the all the bed type stuff if you can [TS]

01:35:04   get that conditionally compiled the way you'd be able to do with previous versions like if I can ship an app with the [TS]

01:35:10   seven you know ship an app with the S.T.K. [TS]

01:35:13   when It ships that I can have all these things [TS]

01:35:15   but still be compatible with seven then that's fine I can still ship the Apple you know this summer somehow I don't [TS]

01:35:21   have to wait until October [TS]

01:35:22   or whenever I do have to do a lot more work to do now with with you know getting all the stuff. [TS]

01:35:28   Supported by the time it ships [TS]

01:35:29   but I'm I'm not like you know freaked out about having to get having to massively change my plans [TS]

01:35:37   and the new things that they gave us are so good I mean it's the they gave us so much of what we both wanted [TS]

01:35:45   and never thought we'd get that it's I'm just so excited to to get I mean [TS]

01:35:50   and you know this week you know we're going to be here for the next four days and [TS]

01:35:54   and learn about some of these things and sessions but we're not going to get a full appreciation for it until we go. [TS]

01:36:00   Home and start actually using these things and and that's and that's going to happen over the span of months [TS]

01:36:04   and years and and over months and years we're all going to appreciate the scale of what we got today. [TS]

01:36:11   Right now it's still very new and it's still going to take a lot of thought [TS]

01:36:14   and experience with it before we realize the you know the full effects are you going to do the size class stuff so [TS]

01:36:19   you're ready for the bigger i Phone probably I will probably do that once I make an i Pad interface that'll be part of [TS]

01:36:27   that work. [TS]

01:36:28   I haven't done that yet I'm not going to launch as far as I know with an i Pad version so that'll probably come you [TS]

01:36:34   know later fall or winter or whatever. [TS]

01:36:36   Right so John how do you feel I'm kind of overwhelmed by the amount of stuff that they've put out there. I'm not sure. [TS]

01:36:42   Like ostensibly all all that I care about in this in these announcements of the last ten stuff I'm thinking about my [TS]

01:36:47   review and I still don't have that that oh S. [TS]

01:36:49   Pin down [TS]

01:36:50   and I saw in the news that I don't really know what to make of that people think oh this is going to be a big review [TS]

01:36:55   but my initial impression is that it's not going to be that big is going to be small [TS]

01:36:58   but I may be misled by the things that are always ten that are that are relevant to us ten that were their [TS]

01:37:04   representative the other parts of the you know so I don't know yet but you're seventy it's interesting it's strange. [TS]

01:37:12   The MAC was due her real refreshed I'm not sure if I like it or not yet I spent some time at that [TS]

01:37:18   and see all the other stuff I mean I'm excited as a user about the Iowa State so I'm excited to use all the apps that [TS]

01:37:24   people make on Iowa State. [TS]

01:37:25   Yeah the take advantage of these features like really this is this is Iowa says time to time it's finally coming into [TS]

01:37:32   its own and that's what I'm excited about from user perspective [TS]

01:37:34   and of course the language stuff from an academic suspect of seems like just yeah I mean I will never ending it picking [TS]

01:37:41   of swift self will begin once I went with him [TS]

01:37:44   but the bottom line is like they did it they you know they've got a new language [TS]

01:37:48   and it may not have been the way I wanted it or all the things that I wanted out of a new language [TS]

01:37:55   but merely the acknowledgement that it's not object receiver ever dissed it just. Good yeah. [TS]

01:38:01   Now like I said I'm just so pleased to see that Apple is really moving in they're moving quick in the end. [TS]

01:38:06   Sitting here now I have no reason to doubt that any of this is going to work well. [TS]

01:38:09   Ask me about this in you know three or four months when I was a comes out [TS]

01:38:12   and all this i Cloud stuff actually happens and maybe nothing works [TS]

01:38:16   and then I regret being excited about how how quick Apple's moving but sitting here now it's a really encouraging [TS]

01:38:22   and I'm really excited to play with all of this stuff in it should it should be really awesome. We'll see what happens. [TS]

01:38:28   Yeah I really can't wait this is there are clearly fire and also owners and you know [TS]

01:38:33   and you know we didn't even mention the lack of hardware updates today because the simple fact is it just didn't matter. [TS]

01:38:39   They give us so much in the software and tools and which is appropriate for a developer conference. [TS]

01:38:45   They gave us so much there that you know we're we're content for a while I can learn swift on my old crappy monitor. [TS]

01:38:53   I can I can maybe busy enough that I can temporarily forget for maybe the next couple of months I can forget that we [TS]

01:39:00   don't have enough thermal screens yet and and thank goodness they didn't release a T.V. [TS]

01:39:05   In a watch for us all to develop you know come on over and yet no new category [TS]

01:39:10   but nobody here the thing is like the harbor announces as much as I love them are a distraction from everything else [TS]

01:39:16   because for the rest of the week at the set at the conference it'll talk about the hardware like it's all about [TS]

01:39:21   software this is a developer conference and we love it when there's hardware and it's exciting [TS]

01:39:24   and you see in the last two but then they go away [TS]

01:39:26   and for the rest of that we are not talking about I mean maybe it's like you know their retina screens that's a [TS]

01:39:31   developer facing future [TS]

01:39:32   but this so much developer facing stuff like this whole keynote was still the stuff that the rest of the week is going [TS]

01:39:38   to be filled with. Yeah and it there so there was enough consumer stuff in there too that it wasn't like you know P.R. [TS]

01:39:46   Disappointment for Apple today like they are on the I mean I'm sure some site analyst is saying that Apple's doing [TS]

01:39:52   because they didn't release you know no unicorn whatever but [TS]

01:39:54   but the fact is like I think most of the sensible places that are usually sensible at this thing. [TS]

01:40:00   As Will will see the value here for everyone consumers and developers [TS]

01:40:03   and this is just this is this is like this is just showing that Apple does have hustle is The Real Hustle they they do [TS]

01:40:09   have massive engineering resources that that they're just you know they're not applying to things like Street View cars [TS]

01:40:16   and everything else but [TS]

01:40:17   but they are they are applying to different problems that that you know you know we didn't get transit directions [TS]

01:40:24   and maps and everything [TS]

01:40:25   and that stuff can come in time like you know it like I'm not trying to criticize Google for you know because Google [TS]

01:40:31   has Google has engineering resources to spare and that shows with their weird side projects [TS]

01:40:36   but their core stuff is still really good. [TS]

01:40:38   This is showing that Apple can Apple cannot only still compete on Encore stuff just you know a different side of it not [TS]

01:40:45   only can they still compete but they can to compete really well like really really competitively [TS]

01:40:50   and the reason the bar in so many areas that that other that other companies and platforms aren't or lag behind in. [TS]

01:40:57   And so Apple I think is fine. [TS]

01:41:00   You know they're doing great [TS]

01:41:01   and of a low I feel like it's like they were there was a law where we were making a lot of demand building talk about [TS]

01:41:07   all the upstart changes like we are making a lot of demands and people want things and Apple isn't releasing it [TS]

01:41:13   and it's almost like a whole bunch of stuff all came out of the open at once. [TS]

01:41:17   Yeah we don't know how long any of those things were baking in there [TS]

01:41:19   but the bottom line is like they open up indoors like fifty cake spilled out like they're all already now [TS]

01:41:25   and you know you may from the outside to be like well they must of heard what we complain about since I was seven [TS]

01:41:31   and then all the stuff so much of the stuff you know it must have taken more than a year like these they just all came [TS]

01:41:37   due at the same time so I mean again we haven't gone to new category T.V. [TS]

01:41:41   Forget about us stuff there's a lot this is a lot of like their cars they're sort of quiet period of just doing small [TS]

01:41:48   incremental things that arguably ended with Iowa seven making the transition [TS]

01:41:50   but like man a lot of stuff came out today a lot of big things that we wanted for a long time. [TS]

01:41:57   Yeah it was really awesome and I'm so stoked. So that's the way. [TS]

01:42:01   So thank you so much to Jason Snell and the people Macworld for letting us still in studio for a while. [TS]

01:42:07   It's extremely kind of you so thank you. [TS]

01:42:09   And we have some sponsors depending on the two or three sponsors this week Warby Parker iglu and Squarespace [TS]

01:42:17   and we'll see you next week. Now to be in this it was accidental accidental death was accidental. [TS]

01:42:42   Thank you for your time today. Whether he was right said that KING LIVE and a man we've got a lot to talk about. [TS]

01:43:22   We will see you next week later or tomorrow and everybody you know whatever there's that too. [TS]