00:00:00 ◼ ► Time was when oil users were behind one big proxy we have important follow up this week first of all if you got two T. [TS]
00:00:13 ◼ ► What happened was the first tee shirt had some printing problems mostly in the back where the font wasn't rendered so [TS]
00:00:25 ◼ ► and it printed are monospace code in a fixed width font variable with font you mean. Yes sorry thank you. [TS]
00:00:34 ◼ ► I've missed you John and they're just taking all the feedback of readers of the slide. Thanks. [TS]
00:00:41 ◼ ► So anyway after the second one is has the fixed font issue which because also I thought the spacing [TS]
00:00:47 ◼ ► and everything was it was really weird looking before so the spring was kind enough to reprint all the shirts at no [TS]
00:00:53 ◼ ► and send everybody that was supposed to happen so it was no mistake if you got a second one doubts in fact it might be [TS]
00:01:14 ◼ ► We mentioned in the past shows about the shipping printed if the printing on the back messes up it's like the upside [TS]
00:01:20 ◼ ► down airplane stamps and now you have to share it you have one where the printing on the back is totally messed up [TS]
00:01:28 ◼ ► but the metrics of the letter spacing are like the metrics of a MA The monospaced font. [TS]
00:01:35 ◼ ► and then there's the one printed the way we intended which one of those shirts is better now because you could be like [TS]
00:01:42 ◼ ► when everybody's got one with a printing error at this point anyone who's going to need to be sure it's the same amount [TS]
00:01:48 ◼ ► of both and it will always be the same man to both because it's not like you can go order the shirt now [TS]
00:02:02 ◼ ► But of isn't fielding a lot of tweets in mails from people asking about double sure it's just give [TS]
00:02:20 ◼ ► but there's definitely a difference once I feel like once we tell them Oh there was a problem depending on the back [TS]
00:02:24 ◼ ► and they lay them both down and look at the two backs the big difference between Yet also the A.T.P. [TS]
00:02:30 ◼ ► Badge on the front on the new shirt is a little bit lighter in shade because you know when you [TS]
00:02:36 ◼ ► when you give somebody a color to print and a shirt has to go through color conversion and become a print color [TS]
00:02:41 ◼ ► and that entire world just sucks in every possible way the entire run of like color converting for print [TS]
00:02:47 ◼ ► and trying to get color to look right in print is just a terrible terrible existence. And here's to T. [TS]
00:02:53 ◼ ► Spring for a living in that world so that we all don't have to you know I was very nice and right that wrong and [TS]
00:03:00 ◼ ► and regardless of who was at fault it sounds like it might have been a little bit of calm a little bit of calm be burn [TS]
00:03:05 ◼ ► out in the spring was entirely OK because like I mean here's the thing like I feel bad for them it's good for has [TS]
00:03:15 ◼ ► They've taken action to correct problems but it's better if you don't have the problem to begin with [TS]
00:03:19 ◼ ► and I'm think speaking mostly from Peace brings perspective because from the customer's perspective everybody get two [TS]
00:03:26 ◼ ► but for teens bring like Margo said it's like if you have a lot of the thing look correct in the preview [TS]
00:03:31 ◼ ► and they printed a huge number of shirts like no human looked at them to compare them to the preview on their Web site. [TS]
00:03:37 ◼ ► Like you figured you'd print one look at it and say yep OK print ten thousand or so of those right. [TS]
00:03:42 ◼ ► So I feel like they need to amend their process because it's you know they're great company that they're eating that [TS]
00:03:50 ◼ ► and I would feel like they would have processes in place to do a human Sandy check of runs over a thousand shirts [TS]
00:04:06 ◼ ► and everyone trying to resolve the thing they want to be you know some of the original file because of the errors they [TS]
00:04:10 ◼ ► could fix it and they told me like they're changed on these policies so I think it scared them enough [TS]
00:04:15 ◼ ► and probably cause them to lose enough money that they that they made some changes as a result I mean he bent over [TS]
00:04:21 ◼ ► backwards for I have a critical shirt right out like they've definitely been you know like they have that part of the [TS]
00:04:26 ◼ ► business down where the response of the customers and do the right thing that is going to work [TS]
00:04:29 ◼ ► and they have a part of the tip of his where you don't make mistakes to begin with [TS]
00:04:33 ◼ ► and I mean if I want to Denmark over anything I assumed you were a blowout lions if I had known you were applauding [TS]
00:04:40 ◼ ► but in my day the essence of the issue was the they recommend you up literally P.S. [TS]
00:04:43 ◼ ► OK and I don't know anything about the stuff that I this was one of the first one that ever used straighter [TS]
00:04:51 ◼ ► and I checked it had the embedded font and I didn't convert to outlines I don't know that was a thing that you could [TS]
00:05:00 ◼ ► With the embedded copy of the font and every designer once I you know went to the problem [TS]
00:05:06 ◼ ► and I mentioned every designer was like oh no you never do that because printer so often screw up well I didn't know [TS]
00:05:11 ◼ ► that I didn't have the experience to know that and so I thought I better find it's find right [TS]
00:05:16 ◼ ► and then the bigger problem I think was that in their image preview on the site it rendered it correctly because the [TS]
00:05:24 ◼ ► image the thing that generates the image preview has a different rasterize er than the thing that actually prints on to [TS]
00:05:33 ◼ ► and that's why it's ultimately the springs for like you know Marco it is the experience of not converting to outline [TS]
00:05:42 ◼ ► and white I think spring things that line but you know the preview shows one thing [TS]
00:05:48 ◼ ► and you get something else printed like that's the whole basis of the site is like you hope you could read about [TS]
00:05:52 ◼ ► and you see a picture you say yes I want that picture to become a real thing you hook some more buttons [TS]
00:06:00 ◼ ► A defense one of the things they asked me for was a copy the original file because they said their rasterize [TS]
00:06:04 ◼ ► or should have used the embedded font like that was not intended behaviour that it didn't like [TS]
00:06:09 ◼ ► and they didn't want to require everyone to use outlines because they know you know T. [TS]
00:06:13 ◼ ► You know it's not it's not always professional two hundred using it it's often times like you know some some group [TS]
00:06:18 ◼ ► maybe making thing making shirts to raise money for like you know their youth group or something and [TS]
00:06:23 ◼ ► and so you know they wanted to work with people who are not illustrator experts so they you know the new way they [TS]
00:06:31 ◼ ► Anyway let's move on we have a lot of feedback or feedback is like fifteen pages long [TS]
00:06:37 ◼ ► or document what is the result as I know it and I think it's mostly John because I certainly didn't do it [TS]
00:06:41 ◼ ► but another really quick one. We were all obviously in San Francisco last week for D.C. [TS]
00:06:48 ◼ ► and I just wanted to quickly say thank you to everyone who said hi to us to everyone that what war was purchased [TS]
00:06:55 ◼ ► and then war sure to anyone who went to the talk show into Gruber for having us on the talk show I had a really [TS]
00:07:06 ◼ ► and so again anyone who spent any amount of time with us even if it was just to say hey thank thank you for that [TS]
00:07:17 ◼ ► and in addition to saying yeah I agree that was awesome thank you you know the did OK to use [TS]
00:07:22 ◼ ► and I was completely wrong about how cloud kit limits work and I definitely said the wrong thing on the talk show [TS]
00:07:30 ◼ ► and I think I even said the wrong thing on our show last week where the cloud kit limits are raised per user by [TS]
00:07:51 ◼ ► and the resources are pool between everybody so that does dramatically change things for how you can use cloud cloud [TS]
00:08:01 ◼ ► or not it still leaves a few questions like like you know we still don't really know what happens [TS]
00:08:07 ◼ ► when you hit that limit and you know any anything involving like you know so you know what is there. [TS]
00:08:17 ◼ ► and uses like a gig of the database somehow because they have some script going that runs around something like How do [TS]
00:08:27 ◼ ► but it isn't nearly as scary as I assumed it was because the resources are pulled by that amount. [TS]
00:08:39 ◼ ► but I don't share it changes it entirely for you know we're talking about the example of a good un to do Instagram on [TS]
00:08:48 ◼ ► If it's like only one hundred megs of like blobs charge per user any user use Instagram will blow through that in like [TS]
00:08:54 ◼ ► a year if they're regular users like your average user will blow through that so it opens up a little bit to to more [TS]
00:09:07 ◼ ► and you're having it having it at one hundred megs to the pool for each user for blob storage is good [TS]
00:09:16 ◼ ► You mean do I get it I question I will if I start my own little Instagram after year everybody's going to have more [TS]
00:09:25 ◼ ► but you know if you like the means I gave on the talk show which was you know could they use this for Vesper investors [TS]
00:09:31 ◼ ► a note taking at the ports in the blog attachments but most people don't use one of the Middle C. [TS]
00:09:36 ◼ ► Because used protection most people would have a hard time making a megabyte of text notes. [TS]
00:09:42 ◼ ► but you know so investors case like it might be a bad idea to say you can only have up to a megabyte of text notes [TS]
00:09:50 ◼ ► but I bet their average is so far below a mega byte that you know they would be OK to use it if they want to. [TS]
00:10:01 ◼ ► You know names like see what the average find out you can find out what the average is like make sure you know whatever [TS]
00:10:09 ◼ ► and then just see what the average size is because who knows what people are doing with Vesper. [TS]
00:10:13 ◼ ► You know like maybe people are using it as a photo collecting up for all we know one of the discussions they were [TS]
00:10:18 ◼ ► having before they launched the sync service was you know they don't actually know because you know before there was a [TS]
00:10:25 ◼ ► sync service a few weeks ago they didn't actually know what the average usage was of these things you know how much [TS]
00:10:30 ◼ ► people actually how many pictures because you know hosting pictures of obviously a lot more data than hosting Texan [TS]
00:10:35 ◼ ► and I will how many pictures people take with Vesper in are there are a lot of image notes so there are the images very [TS]
00:10:39 ◼ ► large and they are outliers that have just tons and tons and tons of image notes and [TS]
00:10:44 ◼ ► and you know if you don't know that like I'm facing the overcast now I'm actually getting reasonably close to launch [TS]
00:10:49 ◼ ► now and I have no idea what to expect on the server side and therefore the cost side. [TS]
00:10:57 ◼ ► That's one of the reasons why you know Cloud Gate is very attractive to a lot of people because if you have like this [TS]
00:11:04 ◼ ► this rock in launch where you get you get way more people than you thought you would. [TS]
00:11:20 ◼ ► You know if you're caught you unpredictable great ability of your initial cost an additional server needs is kind of [TS]
00:11:26 ◼ ► removed as a as a stress and pain and possible business model pain point you know. [TS]
00:11:32 ◼ ► So it is very it is a very attractive option and I think a lot of people are going to use it. [TS]
00:11:37 ◼ ► I hope somebody does so that we can see if things have really improved because of like think back to [TS]
00:11:42 ◼ ► when you mentioned like if you have a really big launch you'll be happy you did this letter for a lot of press. [TS]
00:11:52 ◼ ► and the case of Game Center it was a lot of press it was very popular and Game Center fell over [TS]
00:12:12 ◼ ► but I don't know you know supposedly that is what they are doing so in other news we have been. [TS]
00:12:31 ◼ ► when I was writing a show about a couple of weeks ago that people in these are my words not markers that people are [TS]
00:12:38 ◼ ► jerks and they're going to do whatever they can to mess with shoebox and I said No no it will be fine. [TS]
00:12:47 ◼ ► and all of a sudden while you were talking I look at the show bot which is all run kind of real time using web site [TS]
00:12:54 ◼ ► hits and next thing I know I see that the does Casey show but actually work title just skyrocketing in votes [TS]
00:13:09 ◼ ► Requests Web site requests to add a vote to that particular item and then eventually crash and show [TS]
00:13:35 ◼ ► I mention that your show but the show about has never worked for me I mean it's never worked. [TS]
00:13:41 ◼ ► and I thought oh maybe it's not working as a Farokh some weird website good thing and I've tried it from home [TS]
00:13:46 ◼ ► and all I ever see is the word connecting all I've ever seen of the show about. Well if you want you can see that now. [TS]
00:13:52 ◼ ► I just restarted. I know I am looking at it now and it says connecting so I am you know Markos. Any P.H.P. [TS]
00:14:00 ◼ ► Thing one case is no job of zero Well that's what I get for trying to do something [TS]
00:14:05 ◼ ► and see what his age actually made even better as a web site if he leapt right past Ajax. [TS]
00:14:13 ◼ ► No something's happening that I was like seven minute load time. If you're if you're going to K.C. [TS]
00:14:18 ◼ ► What I also told you is you know it would be nice if we had some kind of persistent storage that way if you don't lose [TS]
00:14:24 ◼ ► all the titles that have been suggested Up until that you know I know of the problem is be nice if you could write it [TS]
00:14:29 ◼ ► out to a file every few seconds but that's the thing it's all kidding aside I did look into this [TS]
00:14:33 ◼ ► and the problem is because this is hosted on Heroku because I generally like Heroku the file system is a family [TS]
00:14:41 ◼ ► and so even if I dump something a file then if I do anything that file will go away. [TS]
00:14:51 ◼ ► One should just make a web request to someone who is running a real web server waiting for it you know I could tell you [TS]
00:14:59 ◼ ► my servers can save files that it's a crazy thing and I know it's it's it's bleeding edge brand new technology [TS]
00:15:08 ◼ ► Well and that's the thing is what I need to do is as people are recommending the chat I need to use post press [TS]
00:15:12 ◼ ► or some other sequel or something like that hit on it do you post close the show titles like right now like a file [TS]
00:15:19 ◼ ► That's why I didn't but a but apparently her own cruise file system is all ephemeral or maybe it isn't [TS]
00:15:29 ◼ ► or that was trying to bring this up was to point out that it took virtually no time for the chat room to just [TS]
00:15:35 ◼ ► completely tear apart my show but now they're putting in script hags putting in long titles. Welcome to the Web K.V. [TS]
00:15:43 ◼ ► Have you ever used a computer. Oh my God this is why you apples don't have nice things. [TS]
00:15:53 ◼ ► I love that you were that you were so naive that you didn't think this would have been you you were so you're such a [TS]
00:16:07 ◼ ► Whatever you big jerks you the three of us records everyone else I don't like. Anyway moving on. [TS]
00:16:18 ◼ ► but a follow up this is after a bunch of people tweeted does that mean I thought it was clever. [TS]
00:16:27 ◼ ► and I haven't actually looked into this because I have not seen any of the sessions related to this because they're [TS]
00:16:32 ◼ ► but in the keynote they mentioned bundles you can sell a bunch of apps on the App Store together for one price [TS]
00:16:41 ◼ ► and i Tunes where there's the complete this album button where you buy the rest of the song by the album minus the cost [TS]
00:16:52 ◼ ► and I'm assuming there is because of these people who are telling me there was where if you bought one app in a two [TS]
00:16:57 ◼ ► hour bundle you could complete this bundle by simply paying the difference for the second app [TS]
00:17:02 ◼ ► and people are proposing this as a terrible confusing way to do upgrade pricing because what you do is [TS]
00:17:08 ◼ ► when you have a new version of your app you keep the first version of the app in the store you know there's the new [TS]
00:17:13 ◼ ► version at whatever price you want to sell to new users and then you make a bundle that includes the old version [TS]
00:17:18 ◼ ► and the new version for less than the sum of their prices which allows people who already own the old version to [TS]
00:17:24 ◼ ► complete this bundle effectively giving them an upgrade price which again I guess that I think that is terrible [TS]
00:17:31 ◼ ► but it is a clever hack of the rules as presented to me by these people who sent me that information to either of you [TS]
00:17:40 ◼ ► Are there any bundles actually in the store yet that we could even see there are you can make him yet if this is all [TS]
00:17:46 ◼ ► true and it actually works like this people will do this for their for their upgrades for upgrade pricing [TS]
00:17:53 ◼ ► and so that's a shame like imagine people on their Web sites trying to tell people like if you want to upgrade price. [TS]
00:18:02 ◼ ► and I don't know that this is like if this loophole exists Apple needs to close it now because it's terrible to allow [TS]
00:18:09 ◼ ► pricing up because it's so confusing and you know developers would jump on it in a second. [TS]
00:18:14 ◼ ► Everyone will have the stupid instructions on their website telling people how to get upgrade pricing by buying a [TS]
00:18:20 ◼ ► It will also I mean the biggest thing the thing could blow a hole in this is do you have to have all the apps that are [TS]
00:18:27 ◼ ► in the bundle still in the absolute by themselves because if you do that means you have to have your old version still [TS]
00:18:36 ◼ ► Well so the idea I mean again the terrible prose idea is you keep the old one in the store for a limited time because [TS]
00:18:44 ◼ ► and you raise the individual price of the like the standalone old version to something crazy that no one actually buy [TS]
00:18:51 ◼ ► of course you know that's like you hope nonlife way by until someone actually buys your you know nine hundred ninety [TS]
00:18:56 ◼ ► nine dollars happen is pissed off that all of this is just like a terrible workaround to get into a loophole to give [TS]
00:19:03 ◼ ► your existing customers a cheaper price for your new Apple has so many bad side effects they just need they need to [TS]
00:19:08 ◼ ► close this whole I don't know how they will close except they have a complete this bundle thing I don't know how you [TS]
00:19:16 ◼ ► Yeah I think it's just one of those things like developers are they're so desperate to they we are so desperate to get [TS]
00:19:24 ◼ ► ongoing revenue because you know what happens in the afternoon the paid apis the world was happens you launch [TS]
00:19:29 ◼ ► and you get this nice big spike of sales but then it starts dropping and sometimes that drop can be pretty steep. [TS]
00:19:35 ◼ ► So eventually you know you start making not enough money from your current version [TS]
00:19:42 ◼ ► or we have been working on this new version of how to release it. Gotta make more money from this. [TS]
00:19:50 ◼ ► and charge an upgrade price because the full price was generally high enough you know if you're charging one hundred [TS]
00:20:00 ◼ ► Isn't your existing customers would like it a lot if you get a new version for maybe fifty bucks or forty bucks [TS]
00:20:24 ◼ ► and they will all anger some portion of your customers to some degree a matter HOW you do them and or you know and [TS]
00:20:34 ◼ ► and so it just never there is no good solution is the only solution to this is what Apple's doing with their apps in [TS]
00:20:43 ◼ ► the App Store the few Apple apps that they still charge money for in the App Store which that number keeps going down [TS]
00:20:48 ◼ ► but the few apps like the pro apps they charge money for you know logic aperture stuff like that. [TS]
00:20:54 ◼ ► Final Cut they use they drop all the prices down to a fraction what used to be you know these things used to be like [TS]
00:21:03 ◼ ► Like things that were a thousand dollars an hour three hundred dollars things that were three hundred dollars an hour [TS]
00:21:21 ◼ ► And that's a little more palatable now than it used to be because the prices have gotten lower it's still kind of sucks [TS]
00:21:28 ◼ ► but in a lot of ways it's you know quote fair. It's also from Apple's point of view it's also a very very simple. [TS]
00:21:34 ◼ ► The new version of the app is a brand new standalone app the old the old version is removed from the store so you can [TS]
00:21:40 ◼ ► only buy the new one and upgrades are you know well you're paying less than you used to pay be happy [TS]
00:21:54 ◼ ► or five dollars at most you know almost no one's paying over five dollars and eyeless for anything really. [TS]
00:22:00 ◼ ► If you buy you know tweet bought one for three bucks and then next week three but two comes out [TS]
00:22:16 ◼ ► and I think people are pretty much used to it I mean people complain about are what you do if you charge money there's [TS]
00:22:21 ◼ ► always an if you will complain but I don't think you'd have fewer people complaining if you'd upgrade pricing [TS]
00:22:28 ◼ ► and so the reality is this is the world we live in now this is you know Apple has been very clear that if you want to [TS]
00:22:35 ◼ ► do some kind of a grid pricing scheme figured a way of making that purchase you know the purchase is the way that you [TS]
00:22:41 ◼ ► add features to an existing app and try to get more money from them. That's that's it. [TS]
00:22:46 ◼ ► So the chat room has come through and link us to the documentation for the app bundles [TS]
00:22:51 ◼ ► and to relevant rules from this page from Apple app contains an abundant must be available for sale on their own as [TS]
00:23:01 ◼ ► and app bundles also sport complete my bundle complete my bundle provide customers who previously purchased one of more [TS]
00:23:10 ◼ ► So I don't know for the Streights attraction or price or whatever but perfect so that you can do this [TS]
00:23:17 ◼ ► and I'm not sure how I bore react to it because if they just sort of shrug Oh well they're within the rules we defined. [TS]
00:23:29 ◼ ► If you have both versions of your app in the store at the same time they're both paid apps you're going to get so many [TS]
00:23:34 ◼ ► angry customers so many angry support emails so many one star reviews. I think that problem will be self-correcting. [TS]
00:23:40 ◼ ► It's a terrible terrible idea to have both heard in the store at the same time because people will accidently by the [TS]
00:23:45 ◼ ► old one and then be very angry that you spent money on an obsolete app that doesn't entitle them too much [TS]
00:23:53 ◼ ► And yeah it's well the cry to me that's all they have cranking the price up on the old one [TS]
00:24:00 ◼ ► Only by that in eating thirty percent of the can't refund an Apple has to refund it's a thing we used to develop You [TS]
00:24:07 ◼ ► Sorry I correct that you have no control over that it's this is why it's a terrible idea. [TS]
00:24:12 ◼ ► Developers Please do not do this it is you will regret it your customers will be upset. [TS]
00:24:19 ◼ ► I wonder if the people who are most likely to do this are the very few people in the App Store who still have expensive [TS]
00:24:27 ◼ ► and they want to offer upgrade pricing because like you said upgrade pricing is pointless [TS]
00:24:33 ◼ ► But if it's like fifty dollars one hundred dollars Are there any of those left I don't even know used to be that Apple [TS]
00:24:38 ◼ ► was close to that range but now I'm not really anymore these days a low or the average like eighty or something. [TS]
00:24:45 ◼ ► or is hobbling us I wonder if there's someone out there with like some specialty CAD application they want their offer [TS]
00:24:52 ◼ ► and then we can wait for their blog posts where they cry about their customers going to angry people being confused. [TS]
00:24:58 ◼ ► Yeah I could see you know that the higher the price the more sense it might make to try a scheme like this [TS]
00:25:12 ◼ ► and reading about the money where a lot of confusion during the week about what the hell is the N.D.A. [TS]
00:25:19 ◼ ► Because all of us were at the beginning of every session they have now third person come on [TS]
00:25:24 ◼ ► and say reminder everything under the in the session is and blah blah blah and like you know the boilerplate text [TS]
00:25:32 ◼ ► and speech that we encountered that ws even the same as every year which is basically the keynote is public a stream to [TS]
00:25:41 ◼ ► and according to various blog posts included this new clauses that oh by the way you're allowed to talk about any [TS]
00:25:46 ◼ ► technical information you see in these things you just can't like post screenshots copy and paste text from slides [TS]
00:25:52 ◼ ► or distribute the software or review products or something of that effect but I'm not a lawyer [TS]
00:25:57 ◼ ► and I didn't know what that text meant so we've all been very cautious about it but. [TS]
00:26:00 ◼ ► Here I think is the kicker after coming home from the receipt I think we all realize that anybody in any web browser [TS]
00:26:08 ◼ ► can go to Apple's developer website without having an account of any kind without signing and agreeing to anything [TS]
00:26:13 ◼ ► and simply play videos from the area so you can watch videos of all the sessions of W.C. [TS]
00:26:18 ◼ ► This year for free without signing any agreement with Apple which means basically that anything contained in those [TS]
00:26:24 ◼ ► videos were allowed to talk about because anybody can see them because it's essentially public information I know [TS]
00:26:29 ◼ ► enough about Apple and days to know that if it's public information you can talk about it so that is a relief. [TS]
00:26:34 ◼ ► In one respect in that we don't have to tiptoe around this stuff because it was in a recession. [TS]
00:26:41 ◼ ► and on the other hand what it means is that anybody who cares can sit there watch everybody will have the reason to [TS]
00:26:48 ◼ ► and review because everything everything in those videos you will know more than you're going to learn from my review [TS]
00:26:56 ◼ ► but no one wants a lot of those videos that are probably read anyway because as long as a matter of you it is still way [TS]
00:27:01 ◼ ► short of annoying everybody. Yeah I think you'll be all right. Anyway our first sponsor this week is a new sponsor. [TS]
00:27:11 ◼ ► They actually this is this is a relatively new product actually got the domain name automatic dot com even spelled the [TS]
00:27:16 ◼ ► normal way not like the word press where it's built the actual way that you spell the word automatic automatic is your [TS]
00:27:26 ◼ ► So if you don't like coming into this thing and we actually we talked about this in neutral [TS]
00:27:30 ◼ ► and I think the second to last episode or the third last episode or neutral which you talked about this [TS]
00:27:35 ◼ ► and we are probably irresponsible enough drivers Well at least that this would have probably some bad news for so [TS]
00:27:48 ◼ ► but they have a little dongle that plugs into the B.D. Which ones the wrapper with the port on board data O.B.D. [TS]
00:28:00 ◼ ► Yes yes except in your car that it's a you know it's like in the driver's footwell [TS]
00:28:14 ◼ ► and this diagnostic for in almost any modern car can dump out tons of useful information from the engine like what you [TS]
00:28:20 ◼ ► know what kind of gas mileage you're getting what the engine is doing what kind of condition the engine is in if [TS]
00:28:25 ◼ ► there's any problems with the engine if you know when the check engine light comes on. [TS]
00:28:32 ◼ ► You know it's a boolean like there's something something in your car before an error code. [TS]
00:28:46 ◼ ► So then they can even tell you how you how you've been doing on your gas mileage you can see of these pretty Grafton [TS]
00:28:52 ◼ ► and you can you can like you know kind of compete with yourself you know you can see how you can do it how much fuel is [TS]
00:29:01 ◼ ► or hurting your fuel cost goals they can often you can also remember where you parked and you can locate your car [TS]
00:29:07 ◼ ► and I saw a map and look at their Abbots all you know very like Apple design it's very well made. [TS]
00:29:18 ◼ ► Oh one more little benefit that they will they benefit potentially if you are in a crash in a serious crash. [TS]
00:29:31 ◼ ► and they can notify local authorities automatically if you're in a crash so this thing could really help you out. [TS]
00:29:38 ◼ ► Hopefully you won't need that feature but if you do you might be glad you have it. [TS]
00:29:45 ◼ ► and there's a forty five day return policy to get it try to see if you like it I bet you will is free shipping anyway [TS]
00:29:55 ◼ ► Normally it's ninety nine ninety five and there's no description fees nothing per month for that. [TS]
00:30:03 ◼ ► So under Bush Normally you can get twenty percent off get the thing for eighty bucks an automatic dot com slash A.T.P. [TS]
00:30:13 ◼ ► when we talked about this on neutral it was sort of in the context of a car manufacturer should be ashamed of [TS]
00:30:22 ◼ ► But now here we are a year or two later or whatever it's been and that's the new status quo with Apple doing Car Play. [TS]
00:30:29 ◼ ► It's like give up on car makers trying to do something Apple just like look just let us take over your screen. [TS]
00:30:37 ◼ ► and it's sort of externalizing the technology part into a part that you upgrade faster than you upgrade your car [TS]
00:30:43 ◼ ► and never relying on the camera you've actually doing things so it's like you know with automatic There's a sport that [TS]
00:30:48 ◼ ► has information car manufacturers have been really slow to put that information to use especially in non high end cars. [TS]
00:30:56 ◼ ► But they all have the sport so why don't we sell this thing that people can buy steak in there [TS]
00:30:59 ◼ ► and use it in conjunction with their smartphone or whatever to sort of add technology to their otherwise inexpensive [TS]
00:31:07 ◼ ► and woefully under technology technological fied that's not a word but sounds good. Car Now it is. [TS]
00:31:17 ◼ ► Stuff as people have noted if you go to the video page which we'll put in the show notes for anyone who wants to watch [TS]
00:31:23 ◼ ► you see videos the ones that they pretty much never really some video in my recollection are the lunchtime sessions [TS]
00:31:29 ◼ ► which are not technical sessions presented by Apple that Apple invites in guest speakers from various places. [TS]
00:31:38 ◼ ► Abrams was there one year this year the one session that I went to was presented by someone who works for Lucas Film On [TS]
00:31:46 ◼ ► and he was talking about the new show that the new animated show that he's working on the kind of did a big tour of the [TS]
00:31:56 ◼ ► Those You're not going to be able to find and it's not because I don't think there's any end. [TS]
00:32:02 ◼ ► and speak is we're not going to film you we're not going to release your film just come [TS]
00:32:08 ◼ ► and I think that's probably an easier sell than a famous person to come here and we'll film you [TS]
00:32:12 ◼ ► and then we'll sell access to your video I release it for free so you won't find a star [TS]
00:32:26 ◼ ► Some amount more follow up to get through this might be a hypercritical style eighty percent follow up that the [TS]
00:32:35 ◼ ► and then leave the rest because there's there's one might I'm on cloud and two items on medical stuff [TS]
00:32:44 ◼ ► This point cloud feedback because it was the first time that I had heard this information although I think one of you [TS]
00:32:52 ◼ ► This is from anonymous sources who knows amidst real whatever anyway typical cabbie out about feedback do not take this [TS]
00:33:05 ◼ ► Said i Tunes i Cloud of the majority of server based interfacing are handled by a huge division of Apple that acts [TS]
00:33:13 ◼ ► They employ mostly contractors including offshore from my experience they were the slowest responding division by far [TS]
00:33:18 ◼ ► and seem to be completely locked in politics this is like the scenario that we imagined [TS]
00:33:24 ◼ ► and thinking about Apple's cloud stuff like it seems like the people who do that aren't as good as the people who do [TS]
00:33:32 ◼ ► They seem like the one getting the resources or the priority that they need to be good. [TS]
00:33:37 ◼ ► Well so here's the next the next bit of us as a software developer outside the division is needed to work with them in [TS]
00:33:42 ◼ ► parallel to build something it's a nightmare. Imagine submitting a request to the N.S.A. [TS]
00:33:47 ◼ ► and receiving a piece of paper saying they can't do the technical reason six months later like it's not that they're [TS]
00:33:54 ◼ ► It's not just of their under-resourced that they seem to be not as responsive like they're not it's not working on the [TS]
00:34:08 ◼ ► and the hardware design like it's all I ever did working together just get this job done [TS]
00:34:12 ◼ ► and then there's this other entity far away disconnected with a huge latency where every time you have to deal with [TS]
00:34:19 ◼ ► and it seems like going on the same page as you are just because they're under-resourced [TS]
00:34:24 ◼ ► but this you could if this is true this would explain why their class up has such problems because it's almost like [TS]
00:34:30 ◼ ► it's not Apple doing it it's like this other entity that's not that's not running the same race with them that's not [TS]
00:34:38 ◼ ► but you know outsourcing this policy they don't outsource your core competency if cloud is an apple core come to the [TS]
00:34:45 ◼ ► competency at this point in what it is like they need to think to bring that back in if it really is outsourced like [TS]
00:35:00 ◼ ► and software guys they stop them from finding those of the people who already were working pretty well together. [TS]
00:35:13 ◼ ► and presumably it is changing like the cloud of good stuff would indicate a change in that direction because it sure [TS]
00:35:18 ◼ ► seems like you know that Apple is dog food in it's own stuff and to a degree that they hadn't before [TS]
00:35:25 ◼ ► and that cloud it looks like a much much more sane A.P.I. Than the previous ones much more like the A.P.I. [TS]
00:35:31 ◼ ► Was that everyone was building for themselves so things are looking up in this area this is a sort of a look backward [TS]
00:35:36 ◼ ► on how things might have been if this is all accurate. Yeah and you know that that does corroborate what I heard. [TS]
00:35:44 ◼ ► That's more detail than I'd heard but also I heard from some place we had somebody else I don't oppose same person [TS]
00:35:51 ◼ ► but somebody else said that this actually was like actively changing and you know so like Federighi was now able to. [TS]
00:36:00 ◼ ► It kind of push against that to some degree and you know get stuff moving and that apparently changes were happening [TS]
00:36:10 ◼ ► But it basically sounds like it has been bad and it's it is still a little bit bad but is is making progress [TS]
00:36:19 ◼ ► and I think what Apple is showing what they're announcing and even just how their stuff is performing. [TS]
00:36:32 ◼ ► Anyway before I move on to the official topics on which punch about of the way because we were a little late to the [TS]
00:36:37 ◼ ► first one our second sponsor this week is Lynda dot com L Y N D A dot com dot com helps you learn to keep up to date [TS]
00:36:49 ◼ ► or explore new hobbies with easy to follow excellently produced professional video tutorials. [TS]
00:36:55 ◼ ► Now you can learn a new programming language you can create you are you can get design tips you can get your first code [TS]
00:37:03 ◼ ► or Probably even Swift pretty soon I imagine they're working on that very quickly they're usually very quick to put of [TS]
00:37:08 ◼ ► or new stuff comes out you can even use on the dot com to learn new applications for a new you know creative endeavors [TS]
00:37:17 ◼ ► or you know anything like that you can learn you know video editing post production all this crazy stuff you can all [TS]
00:37:36 ◼ ► when a new version of Photoshop comes out they can have a Tauriel on day one you can get started right away. [TS]
00:37:42 ◼ ► Now Lynda dot com This is the best part I think you get all that you can have access to their entire library. [TS]
00:37:53 ◼ ► and it's a flat fee you get unlimited access to everything for twenty five bucks a month so that kind of. [TS]
00:38:00 ◼ ► We moved the pressure in her head like well do I really want to learn about this thing for another three dollars you [TS]
00:38:06 ◼ ► know you don't have to worry about that twenty five bucks a month get unlimited access to their entire catalog so [TS]
00:38:11 ◼ ► browse around you know you might find something that you didn't think you'd want to be interested in [TS]
00:38:15 ◼ ► but you know what you want a few minutes of it and see and then you're going to go out. [TS]
00:38:19 ◼ ► I always assumed it would be harder or oh that's how you can do this cool thing I never knew that. [TS]
00:38:23 ◼ ► So anyway go to Lynda dot com L Y N D A dot com slash A.T.P. and You can get a free seven day trial. Go check it out. [TS]
00:38:33 ◼ ► You know see for yourself. You know we've all three of us have watched stuff on there. [TS]
00:38:36 ◼ ► I learned a lot from their stuff especially with some of the pod cast production stuff that I've done. [TS]
00:38:48 ◼ ► If you're the only person on earth who doesn't know it yet John. And you can learn all sorts of new stuff there. [TS]
00:38:55 ◼ ► Three printing they even have three D. Printing I mean they have this crazy stuff go check it out. [TS]
00:39:00 ◼ ► These are not nicely produced professional video tutorials. L Y N D A dot com slash A.T.P. It is Linda dot com with a Y.. [TS]
00:39:09 ◼ ► When the dot com slash A.T.P. Thanks a lot Linda for sponsorship. Once again pretty sure I've written more P.H.P. [TS]
00:39:21 ◼ ► When I work when Aaron and I got engaged I had a old Think Pad running some flavor of a burn to [TS]
00:39:35 ◼ ► and This was actually my first exposure to databases because I had always been writing client side apps [TS]
00:39:41 ◼ ► and so I wrote a web site which allowed you to R.S.V.P. Online and I was extremely proud of myself that was all P.H.P. [TS]
00:39:50 ◼ ► and I thought that went really well and still my friend who had an apostrophe in a surname went to register [TS]
00:40:00 ◼ ► Turn because I didn't properly escape everything but like I said it was my first experience [TS]
00:40:06 ◼ ► and I didn't we didn't have to use the knot in order to do that because I know everyone used to use the Not at that [TS]
00:40:13 ◼ ► point and I didn't want to you when you really wanted to show Aaron right up front what she was getting into. [TS]
00:40:23 ◼ ► You've done the right so anyway what are we talking about tonight. Marco's macro woes. Oh yes how could I forget. [TS]
00:40:31 ◼ ► So that's fun. So what happened. I woke up to a computer that was showing signs of disk failure. [TS]
00:40:43 ◼ ► and everything you could still launch party to sort of invoke commands and you know click on stuff and move stuff [TS]
00:40:48 ◼ ► but anything that would cause a disk access would just freeze whatever you were using [TS]
00:40:54 ◼ ► and you know so I tried like I couldn't even like you know launch a console like I try to launch a console app to see [TS]
00:41:02 ◼ ► and I couldn't even do that because that would require reading from the desk so I thought oh crap my interest is dead [TS]
00:41:08 ◼ ► and I rebooted and rebooted and rebooted and could never get past the gray spinner [TS]
00:41:36 ◼ ► and I were sore from from a super duper clone which is by far the fastest recovery method. [TS]
00:41:44 ◼ ► And so I did that it was fine and you know some find a backup now everything's fine. It seems. [TS]
00:41:51 ◼ ► Oh and for whatever it's worth while it was in the unbearable state I booted from the clone [TS]
00:42:00 ◼ ► It appeared to have no errors if I did the whole repair verify everything reported nothing wrong. [TS]
00:42:07 ◼ ► In conclusion it appears as though this is almost certainly a file system related problem and you know I don't know. [TS]
00:42:14 ◼ ► Anyway this is boring but I had an issue that caused an of destruction to make the disk on bootable [TS]
00:42:21 ◼ ► and it seems to have been related to the files a transition which was eight of us plus doing you know. [TS]
00:42:33 ◼ ► Yeah well I don't have one of those crazy soundboards I can buy on a regular had a button I love I get by on it is it [TS]
00:42:50 ◼ ► It's the show that it's it's like it's like no one the guy from office space like you know it's like you know the show [TS]
00:42:58 ◼ ► got fired six years ago and no one told them. And their biggest keep going in every day. [TS]
00:43:03 ◼ ► It's just this ongoing piece of performance art between two people who are very funny together [TS]
00:43:11 ◼ ► and just have nothing to talk about because the show is like totally off the rails. [TS]
00:43:21 ◼ ► and the funny part is you're sitting there listening thinking why am I still listen to this [TS]
00:43:29 ◼ ► and yet it works I don't know why it works but it does work and it's hilarious and I really enjoy it. [TS]
00:43:39 ◼ ► But why am i still listening to this as my garment. No nobody should be listening to it but I listen to it I love it. [TS]
00:43:46 ◼ ► I completely agree with everything you just said it's so good I think they would I think they would agree with me I [TS]
00:43:52 ◼ ► Oh it's so wonderful because he really got it like the entire show like if you think back to work is a show of in jokes. [TS]
00:43:58 ◼ ► You have no idea. Because by our Nick is one entire show made of nothing but in jokes. [TS]
00:44:04 ◼ ► It's ridiculous and it's wonderful in every possible way. Yeah it is really quite good. [TS]
00:44:10 ◼ ► Anyway I we are talking about that how do we even get there. Dang soundboards edge of us now right. [TS]
00:44:18 ◼ ► OK Anyway so I put the link of the show to this article that a bazillion people have sent me on Twitter from this [TS]
00:44:30 ◼ ► and it was like something like fifteen thousand photos stored over six years and he grins [TS]
00:44:35 ◼ ► and check sums to compare I guess he had a valid checksum someplace and compared it to the file star nature S. [TS]
00:44:41 ◼ ► Plus and he lost twenty eight files over six years and these are images and some of them are some of these like J. [TS]
00:45:00 ◼ ► or all of individual pictures like if the air is towards the end maybe you build the most of the picture of there in [TS]
00:45:06 ◼ ► the middle either to the top of the picture maybe there's some clever thing they can recover those maybe the whole [TS]
00:45:16 ◼ ► and his article talks about a trust plus now it's all that how it's crappy influence over there a lot of people some [TS]
00:45:20 ◼ ► you think going to talk about they trust us rightly respond guy has backed me up said bus was this crappy [TS]
00:45:29 ◼ ► and I don't really tweet out the link to the article because this article is not really about Age of us plus being [TS]
00:45:35 ◼ ► I already wrote a bit about each of us was incredibly in one of my reviews that is linked to in this article at the end [TS]
00:45:47 ◼ ► and I'm not even sure that's what having the Marcos thing because he thought he said everything was OK so it's about us [TS]
00:45:52 ◼ ► probably didn't corrupt and that it is structured probably does think it is keeping track of everything is something. [TS]
00:46:02 ◼ ► when data goes bad on disk the metadata keeping track of where that date is could be perfectly valid like address what [TS]
00:46:09 ◼ ► has not corrupted itself and knows where all of your data is for everything or files that data itself is garbage [TS]
00:46:15 ◼ ► and does not care what the content of that data just needs to keep track of it and remember where it is [TS]
00:46:21 ◼ ► and how much is available free and how much is occupied and where each piece of individual files are [TS]
00:46:26 ◼ ► and what are they going and does fail us plus does fail in many respects in doing that job [TS]
00:46:32 ◼ ► and that is one of my complaints about each of us plus of the second complaint of a restless [TS]
00:46:35 ◼ ► and all sort of file systems that predate the dawning of reliability of getting religion about reliability. [TS]
00:46:44 ◼ ► They don't care what your date is either they just cross their fingers and hope the disk storage system is reliable [TS]
00:46:49 ◼ ► and the FS was the first file system to the first popular file system to get serious about saying that we're going to [TS]
00:46:56 ◼ ► take responsibility for keeping track of whether the stuff you wrote to disk is what is still there [TS]
00:47:05 ◼ ► but also checksums on the data itself which is complication expensive and takes memory and has all these limits [TS]
00:47:16 ◼ ► and sometimes there are in the driver stack in the operating system no matter where the source of the error is the [TS]
00:47:23 ◼ ► first thing was like and then data protection where if we write data and then later on go to read it [TS]
00:47:29 ◼ ► and if what we read is not what we wrote originally we will tell you that there's a problem that doesn't save your data [TS]
00:47:35 ◼ ► it's still garbage but then you can if you have the ability to detect when something went wrong. [TS]
00:47:39 ◼ ► If you're using any form of redundant storage would you have us offered itself where you could store your data twice on [TS]
00:47:44 ◼ ► disk or three times and disk you could use a multi disc scenario you could have backup so on and so forth. [TS]
00:48:00 ◼ ► There are there must be good I can also check out when that date is that let me write it back on top of this one. [TS]
00:48:04 ◼ ► Let me you know you know sort of the self healing file system not knowing whether your data is bad like this person [TS]
00:48:13 ◼ ► If you don't know your data is bad you won't find out that your data is hosed until that corrupt data is like spread to [TS]
00:48:19 ◼ ► all of your backups it's been pushed to your cloud backup it's all it's you know your last three months worth of [TS]
00:48:25 ◼ ► and all you have the corrupt data because you don't have your data going back to being a time all you have is multiple [TS]
00:48:32 ◼ ► and you all know that again until like you're trying to get pictures for some of high school graduation you want to [TS]
00:48:41 ◼ ► If you had a file system that had ended integrity the file system could notify that notify you of that immediately [TS]
00:48:52 ◼ ► So that's I think what this this article is really complaining about that or thousands are not like the FS [TS]
00:49:01 ◼ ► and not so much that it's crappy because it does it loses track of where your data is which does happen [TS]
00:49:07 ◼ ► and people do tweet about that all the time but that's not really what this article is about. [TS]
00:49:14 ◼ ► Our friends a backlit has an unlimited untrodden uncomplicated available anywhere you can try for free with no credit [TS]
00:49:26 ◼ ► Online backup and believe me that this is a great time to have them as a panzer because when my hard drive. [TS]
00:49:32 ◼ ► When I thought my my Dr had died this morning and either way with regard to where I thought I had to wipe it [TS]
00:49:38 ◼ ► and start fresh. I was never nervous that I'm going to lose data because I know that yes I have my time machine here. [TS]
00:49:46 ◼ ► I also have my super duper clone here which is what gave me a very fast recovery today [TS]
00:49:55 ◼ ► and so there's always this other places always this back up for you. And actually I. [TS]
00:50:00 ◼ ► The two founders I think they're the two founders I meant to hire people back please. [TS]
00:50:08 ◼ ► Which is very generous of them because nothing at Samovar Tea Lounge or whatever it is cheap. [TS]
00:50:16 ◼ ► That size of what they serve there like it was a twenty ounce pitcher of tea for one person anyway. [TS]
00:50:22 ◼ ► So these guys are really sharp they know their stuff and they they're just nice people you can tell [TS]
00:50:31 ◼ ► when you read their blog where they explain technical details of things like here's how we built these crazy storage [TS]
00:50:36 ◼ ► positive always Hardress on you here's the plan here's what we do here's how we get drives that are cheap by driving [TS]
00:50:42 ◼ ► all around the country and do increased over the rebates like they're just good people and they know their stuff. [TS]
00:50:49 ◼ ► Apple engineer for their software the mac is great they have all this new stuff they have e-mail [TS]
00:50:53 ◼ ► or notifications you can get it you can get like I go report every couple of weeks saying hey this is what we have just [TS]
00:50:59 ◼ ► so you know we have this much data blast that took the time doesn't even alert if they haven't heard from you computer [TS]
00:51:04 ◼ ► So that way if you like if you like pause the backup when you do when you're recording a pod cast I mean [TS]
00:51:08 ◼ ► and you forget unpause it they will send you an e-mail alert in a couple days saying hey by the way we haven't heard [TS]
00:51:13 ◼ ► from you this is unusual you should probably know about this and fix it is fantastic. [TS]
00:51:18 ◼ ► There's a fifteen day free trial with no credit card required you to enter an email and password [TS]
00:51:28 ◼ ► and that's it there's no add ons there's no gimmicks there's no like tacked on charges or fees or surcharges. [TS]
00:51:33 ◼ ► Five dollars a month per computer for unlimited space and we I mean jeez we my wife has about three terabytes on hers. [TS]
00:51:41 ◼ ► I have about a terabyte and a half on mine. My mom has a whole thirty eight gigs on hers. [TS]
00:51:47 ◼ ► Obviously a big range here but you know this it doesn't matter. Same price five bucks a month. [TS]
00:51:51 ◼ ► Easy they don't have to charge you more if you go to the three gig there are three terabyte limit like my wife it's [TS]
00:51:55 ◼ ► it's fine it is the simplest I went back about in my in my experience also a fastest. [TS]
00:52:02 ◼ ► I've had very good experience of getting sucked back please very quickly. So going to back Blaze dot com slash A.T.V. [TS]
00:52:17 ◼ ► Thank you very much to back please for sponsoring my show went to our show once again and for buying me T. Last week. [TS]
00:52:24 ◼ ► and I did not mean the flavor of music so I am not at all qualified to talk about any three D. [TS]
00:52:30 ◼ ► Programming anything because I've never really done it and Mark I don't believe you have either. [TS]
00:52:35 ◼ ► That is not true now really I am slightly slightly a hair above completely unqualified excellent because I in college. [TS]
00:52:49 ◼ ► Version of scorched earth and I tried it in like three different languages using at least two different graphics A.P.I. [TS]
00:52:59 ◼ ► It was basically it was my way of fooling around with various threes other learning in college [TS]
00:53:04 ◼ ► and then I used my most recent version of that as a demo to get myself my first job [TS]
00:53:22 ◼ ► and I would never consider myself a knowledgeable programmer at all however I at least know like the kinds of things [TS]
00:53:35 ◼ ► Oh I think I know any more about it I mean I've done about the same amount of three Perris Marco alike demo apps on the [TS]
00:53:44 ◼ ► and maybe move it around you're like Well that was really hard I'm not doing anymore because it's super hard to get [TS]
00:54:00 ◼ ► Because he actually is qualified to know and he's actually a real game programmer. [TS]
00:54:05 ◼ ► So listen to what he says about metal and you'll you'll learn more about this summer as well as what's important [TS]
00:54:13 ◼ ► and we're going to talk about it from business perspective but it's like Open G.L. and Open G.L. [TS]
00:54:17 ◼ ► Yes is what Apple does using previously these are open standards that are in theory not controlled by any one company [TS]
00:54:22 ◼ ► there's a consortium blah blah blah is a very old standard that evolved over the years [TS]
00:54:27 ◼ ► when these standards were created the current crop of three D. Hardware current G.P. [TS]
00:54:36 ◼ ► Even though it has evolved over the years has had to maintain backward compatibility. [TS]
00:54:40 ◼ ► It is not well suited to current hardware not just in the particular details because a lot of those handled by driver [TS]
00:54:47 ◼ ► but just in terms of the programming model like what do you do you you issue a series of function calls that set things [TS]
00:54:54 ◼ ► up and then cause them to be drawn and like the the sequence of events that are presented through an open jail A.B.I. [TS]
00:55:00 ◼ ► Have almost no bearing on what's actually happening with the hardware in terms of when does something happen [TS]
00:55:05 ◼ ► when do command get sent to the G.P.U. when Does the things that are going to be drawn get sent to the G.P. [TS]
00:55:11 ◼ ► Use memory how do things get written back how does that affect this a lot of that happens in the driver [TS]
00:55:15 ◼ ► but this is another level of indirection So you're there like doing things step by step in your program [TS]
00:55:20 ◼ ► and there's like this whole other program going on behind the scenes to manage that stuff to say all right [TS]
00:55:28 ◼ ► Oh wait the purpose read something back from the G.P. You actually have to stall and read back from the G.P.S. [TS]
00:55:35 ◼ ► But now to see if you want to read the data back so we have to wait for it to catch up and rethink our knives [TS]
00:55:42 ◼ ► but If you if you don't accept a latency you might not be able to utilize in the G.P.U. [TS]
00:55:46 ◼ ► and All sorts of details come from the mismatch between this relatively high level A.P.I. [TS]
00:55:55 ◼ ► In its current form and what's actually going on behind the scenes so that requires game programmers to do all. [TS]
00:56:05 ◼ ► and do this little thing here it will force these things all the uploads of the G.P.U. [TS]
00:56:15 ◼ ► Shader language and that sort of a high level language whereas to be compiled for the individual G.P.U. [TS]
00:56:23 ◼ ► or at the time it draws a frame where you want your you want your face to be precompiled and Direct X. [TS]
00:56:28 ◼ ► Has this method with a pre-compiled I'm down to sort of a not byte code more compact form [TS]
00:56:33 ◼ ► and then Apple's drivers had a use L V M for that document anyway it's it's extremely complicated world [TS]
00:56:42 ◼ ► Programming want to do is say this is way too complicated I can't keep track of all the different machines [TS]
00:56:46 ◼ ► and you know the Rube Goldberg device that causes graphics to go off on the screen if you just gave me a programming [TS]
00:56:53 ◼ ► model that was a closer match to the way things actually happen it would be a lot easier to get something that performs [TS]
00:57:01 ◼ ► Metal is an interesting entry into that field because first of all metal right now only works on I.O.'s [TS]
00:57:09 ◼ ► So certainly it's not helping people deploy their you know write code that's going to work on a wide variety of [TS]
00:57:17 ◼ ► or wide variety of hardware going forward I'm sure they will expand support for it I'm sure it supports the gate now [TS]
00:57:22 ◼ ► you know all that other good stuff and who knows little support in the future but for now is very narrowly constrained. [TS]
00:57:31 ◼ ► It shows you here's a command buffer that share your commands up bachelor things up ship them off to the G.P.U. [TS]
00:57:38 ◼ ► In the correct order like we're exposing all these things that were previously happening the driver that were [TS]
00:57:43 ◼ ► completely opaque to you. We expose them as objects and you have a programming language that lets you construct them. [TS]
00:57:53 ◼ ► and It is a great fit for the way modern G.B. Use works today and the reason Apple thinks this is something. [TS]
00:58:00 ◼ ► That's going to help people is not because they think people are going to write their programs [TS]
00:58:06 ◼ ► but because the people who make the game engines which they had on the stage during the keynote that's why they had you [TS]
00:58:13 ◼ ► and they showed unity in all the other game is out there that has names like I remember like the big four engine makers [TS]
00:58:20 ◼ ► for three D. Engines that's almost game makers use writing a three D. Engine is super hard. [TS]
00:58:25 ◼ ► Well if the engine middleware makers make a make sure their engines are able to run with metal [TS]
00:58:32 ◼ ► when they're running on the A seven then anyone who develops a game on top of that engine gets the advantage of oh if [TS]
00:58:50 ◼ ► and It's also interesting that they didn't choose to do it Microsoft did which is my guess I want to keep it open G.L. [TS]
00:58:55 ◼ ► Years and years ago an image Direct X. Which learned from open jails mistakes and was more modern but is not that new. [TS]
00:59:04 ◼ ► Has mantle which is a similar type of thing to metal as far as I'm aware I have not read a lot about Mandel [TS]
00:59:09 ◼ ► but a sort of a closer to the metal which the missing where Apple got its name mantle as a closer to the metal A.P.I. [TS]
00:59:17 ◼ ► It's one of the few areas in computing where the A P I's are actually getting not so much a lower level [TS]
00:59:23 ◼ ► but like exposing more of the foibles of the hardware rather than going the other direction rather than abstractly at [TS]
00:59:30 ◼ ► all because Open G.L. Is more and more distant from the hardware then either mantle or metal or probably direct X. [TS]
00:59:41 ◼ ► when Apple announcement on the keynote I tweeted something to the effect of so is Double going to make a game console [TS]
00:59:46 ◼ ► or what. They just made their own sort of low level game console a type three D. A.P.I. [TS]
00:59:54 ◼ ► They've got a little box that you connect to a T.V. They've got controller support A.B.I. Built into Iowa. [TS]
01:00:00 ◼ ► It's a room kids expecting them to offer some way to put apps on the Apple T.V. What's the deal here. [TS]
01:00:06 ◼ ► Are they going to make one of they're not going to make one of the just going to dance around this until they have all [TS]
01:00:10 ◼ ► the pieces of a dentist refuse or do I think I know I could do with books for years [TS]
01:00:13 ◼ ► and years where they had all the pieces in place to be the world's dominant bookmaker [TS]
01:00:20 ◼ ► And this comes up because there was a strategic Post today that says Apple T.V. Might just how adult E.M.I. [TS]
01:00:27 ◼ ► Disrupt Microsoft and Sony that talks about the same issue. Have you guys read this. [TS]
01:00:35 ◼ ► You know one of the one of one of Ben's main arguments there is that the official you know high profile game consoles [TS]
01:00:48 ◼ ► and that you know that it is necessarily a kind of keeping them high end because there are these like these four [TS]
01:00:53 ◼ ► hundred dollar boxes that you know kind of locks out casual gamers who are just not worth them spending four hundred [TS]
01:01:01 ◼ ► bucks on on the Xbox. Meanwhile so many people are getting things like the Apple T.V. [TS]
01:01:07 ◼ ► or Roku or the the new Amazon firey box whatever it is that the Marlins felt good anyway. [TS]
01:01:14 ◼ ► So many people are getting these these you know little cheat boxes that can stream video or watch Netflix [TS]
01:01:22 ◼ ► and that that model of that market is probably very likely to disrupt the game market at some point soon. [TS]
01:01:31 ◼ ► I mean basically I mean I think if you look at metal I mean metal is really interesting just because you know look it's [TS]
01:01:40 ◼ ► but it's worth asking why they made metal you know why did Apple put so much effort into something that is entirely [TS]
01:01:53 ◼ ► We were talking about this a couple of weeks ago how Apple just doesn't really seem to care about games. [TS]
01:01:58 ◼ ► Obviously they do. We were at least partially wrong on that. I don't think it's entirely about games. [TS]
01:02:03 ◼ ► Oh well because I mean think think about the games as one big aspect of it definitely. But the whole U.I. Uses Open G.L. [TS]
01:02:12 ◼ ► and Viewed through the lens of I.O.'s metal sights look more like a battery saving feature where they can more [TS]
01:02:26 ◼ ► and having you know ten times faster draw call performance and all these things that benefits their make their U.I. [TS]
01:02:33 ◼ ► Snappier and has a potential battery savings because you're spending less time flogging the G.P.U. [TS]
01:02:38 ◼ ► To get your stuff done and their whole U.I. Is basically it's not a three D. Game but it's all open G.L. On an i O. S. [TS]
01:02:47 ◼ ► So there is a platform benefit to it even if no game maker ever used I don't think they would have gone through the [TS]
01:02:55 ◼ ► and clearly game makers like metal because like all the big engines are saying yes we're going to support it [TS]
01:03:01 ◼ ► and I don't think Apple had to twist their arms because this is what game makers want they want their games to go [TS]
01:03:07 ◼ ► Yes trying to figure out what weird incantations they have to do to get good performance [TS]
01:03:11 ◼ ► and you know game makers want good battery life too they don't want people to play a game and have a destroyer. [TS]
01:03:18 ◼ ► and I also I think it's very obvious that there are a number of major strategic benefits here like you know obviously [TS]
01:03:24 ◼ ► you know a lot of people are saying oh well this will encourage people to write games only for I O. S. [TS]
01:03:29 ◼ ► And I think that's a number of people who made that decision based on metal is probably very very small because most [TS]
01:03:35 ◼ ► people aren't writing this little code I mean you know the people people are the engines. [TS]
01:03:42 ◼ ► and they're possibly investing into making metal ports for their engines that will you know they're not going to stop [TS]
01:03:55 ◼ ► Verse they can keep running on Android and everything else that's not going to stop doing that. [TS]
01:04:00 ◼ ► But it will reinforce the pretty frequent idea that games while they might run on Android stuff they usually run better [TS]
01:04:10 ◼ ► on I us and it's usually because most you know most interest if out there has a pretty wide range of G P U's and G.P.U. [TS]
01:04:16 ◼ ► Power and some of the cheap Android stuff like some of the cheap Android tablets. Historically it had very weak G.P.U. [TS]
01:04:22 ◼ ► Power compared to comparable I us devices partially at a cost partially out of other concerns who knows [TS]
01:04:41 ◼ ► And I think this is a way for us for Apple to keep that legal and for for a while longer. [TS]
01:04:48 ◼ ► and starts catching up I think this is this is a way to be able to keep that lead going [TS]
01:04:56 ◼ ► They were very specific that this is for the A seven well and for the eight you assume I mean like obvious obviously. [TS]
01:05:06 ◼ ► What other company could even you know could feasibly do this because Apple has such a limited line [TS]
01:05:12 ◼ ► and is so relentless about moving things forward and doesn't really care that this A.B.I. [TS]
01:05:20 ◼ ► Devices from this time forward assessing the i Pod Touch the A seven in the future. Oh yes. [TS]
01:05:33 ◼ ► and above only probably signifies that if Apple's going to enter the game market the way they're going to do it is by [TS]
01:05:39 ◼ ► waiting until there's an eighty seven. The Apple T.V. and Then they are right. Hey now we have this thing. [TS]
01:05:44 ◼ ► Start making games for it and I think I think we're waiting until that becomes economical [TS]
01:05:50 ◼ ► and that's why we don't have an Apple T.V. S.T.K. Yet and that's why the Apple T.V. [TS]
01:05:54 ◼ ► Hardware has done very little in the last few years that it has moved forward very little. [TS]
01:06:00 ◼ ► That's until they can combine this thing you know keep the same price point a hundred bucks maybe even drop it by [TS]
01:06:06 ◼ ► twenty thirty bucks would probably keep keep it one hundred bucks and eventually put an a seven in there [TS]
01:06:11 ◼ ► and that heck that might be this fall. It would be a little aggressive but they could probably do it if they wanted to. [TS]
01:06:21 ◼ ► That might even be the big fall thing is hey you know you guys were all talking about wearables that nobody wants. [TS]
01:06:27 ◼ ► We kind of made a game system that's going to kick butt in the market because going to sell a ton of them anyway [TS]
01:06:32 ◼ ► and then you can start making games for using all of our existing infrastructure using metal [TS]
01:06:38 ◼ ► and that's it I mean that that would be a pretty amazing fall like I said during the very seeking out Apple has all the [TS]
01:06:45 ◼ ► pieces to make to make a run of this exact strategy and an expensive box with with pretty good three D. [TS]
01:06:52 ◼ ► Performance they've got you know their own. They've got their own ship they have turned G.P.U. [TS]
01:06:57 ◼ ► They got their own they've got now a low level console style A.P.I. For doing three D. [TS]
01:07:02 ◼ ► In taking advantage of that hardware. They've got the you know the A.P.I. For controller support. [TS]
01:07:10 ◼ ► Unfortunately all those pieces the technology pieces are not the hard part of being successful in the game console [TS]
01:07:17 ◼ ► Just ask Microsoft getting the technology right is good but it's I don't think it's even necessary necessary [TS]
01:07:25 ◼ ► I don't think it's even necessary to get the tech right that we use technology was disgusting [TS]
01:07:29 ◼ ► and they were success so the hard part of being successful in the game market is how do you get how do you get people [TS]
01:07:40 ◼ ► and the answer is I go they'll buy it because it's like you know it's a great T.V. [TS]
01:07:44 ◼ ► Puck to watch Netflix on or whatever so they have they have and it's cheap so that will get people to buy things [TS]
01:07:53 ◼ ► and just ask people how easy that is to do it is really really hard and probably cost. [TS]
01:08:08 ◼ ► and we've talked about before the next generation councils announced the question was Is there still a place in the [TS]
01:08:13 ◼ ► market for big expensive devices that play mostly or only games the answer is yes. [TS]
01:08:19 ◼ ► People love the P S four it is selling pretty well certainly well enough to make Sony happy Michel's console so I'm [TS]
01:08:24 ◼ ► pretty All's Well no I want to you because it's crappy. Maybe they're there you know. [TS]
01:08:30 ◼ ► Three was this past week so maybe an intent was fortunate arise next year we don't know [TS]
01:08:39 ◼ ► and the next generation last the same question again does anyone actually stupid four hundred dollar boxes the people [TS]
01:08:45 ◼ ► want to visit us for a game that question will be asked again. This generation is true. [TS]
01:08:50 ◼ ► If no one wants those boxes and there's no one out there none of people to sustain that. [TS]
01:08:58 ◼ ► and I'm done dollar pocks I think most gamers would consider that kind of a bad situation [TS]
01:09:04 ◼ ► and the questions are so few of those people it doesn't matter where they think they'll be said but oh well who cares. [TS]
01:09:09 ◼ ► It's like the command line people being sad when the GUI came and took over everything [TS]
01:09:17 ◼ ► I don't think that scenario is likely though even though these so-called core gamers [TS]
01:09:21 ◼ ► and I hate that term because it makes no sense for the so-called core gamers even though they are not the majority. [TS]
01:09:29 ◼ ► When when when a game has always been the chat room and a game like Grand Theft Auto five comes out [TS]
01:09:37 ◼ ► Hardcore gamers are paying sixty dollars a pop for these games. They're doing it willingly. [TS]
01:09:41 ◼ ► They're happy with the results and they pump a huge amount of money into the ecosystem [TS]
01:09:45 ◼ ► and it's not like just a few wails like Candy Crush where most of the money is made off of these poor addicted small [TS]
01:10:00 ◼ ► and that I think is the business that that Apple would have a seriously hard time getting into because as we've [TS]
01:10:06 ◼ ► discussed previously it doesn't seem like Apple's that into games if you're not that into games is no way you going to [TS]
01:10:13 ◼ ► But there had to have some of their own like parts I said hello and Sony's got it all it's own first party games [TS]
01:10:20 ◼ ► and Mario and all ducking and all that stuff. I don't think Apple can be a player in that market. [TS]
01:10:29 ◼ ► and I said to Ben Thompson is like that's the things that they have are the tech going green to be a player in that [TS]
01:10:36 ◼ ► but it sure seems like Apple doesn't want to market why would you want to be part of what by all accounts is a declining [TS]
01:10:47 ◼ ► Why would Apple one in a market is that a market is taking off like a rocket ship to the sun [TS]
01:10:51 ◼ ► and is going to be super awesome for years to come from. Doesn't seem like it right now. [TS]
01:10:55 ◼ ► So why would Apple be saying we really need to get in on this market we really need to make a device that's competitive [TS]
01:11:04 ◼ ► I don't I don't see Apple thinking that that is a good thing to do regardless of whether they could do it. [TS]
01:11:10 ◼ ► but that wasn't that wasn't Ben's point though was it I thought pins point was more to grab the portion of the market [TS]
01:11:16 ◼ ► that's more like Marco and I where we don't really take games too seriously but we do enjoy it [TS]
01:11:25 ◼ ► Box sitting of well I mean presumably a new one you know I just bought this Apple T.V. [TS]
01:11:30 ◼ ► You know just to please games maybe I should give that a shot see if that's any good. And yes they may have this one. [TS]
01:11:36 ◼ ► This world class OK that might be a stretch but they may have this really really great hardware [TS]
01:11:44 ◼ ► But that's kind of ancillary to the thought that here's a low cost box that makes for really easy consumption [TS]
01:11:55 ◼ ► Yeah but the Apple already has that market it's called the i Phone you know if you look at look at what they used. [TS]
01:12:00 ◼ ► Game consuls do and you look at the direction they are going they have all decided. [TS]
01:12:04 ◼ ► Even even the previous generation and I mean not not the P S two but that you know but the P S three the X. [TS]
01:12:11 ◼ ► and the we the first week they all started adding all these media center features ones like you know streaming Netflix [TS]
01:12:17 ◼ ► became a thing and all the streaming videos like the you know that all happened in the last generation consuls [TS]
01:12:26 ◼ ► and they all with their current generation the new generation with the exception of the way you which didn't really do [TS]
01:12:32 ◼ ► this kind of stuff but the other ones move much further towards looked at media center role [TS]
01:12:38 ◼ ► and there's you know people who buy these things if you have very little interest in playing games you're probably not [TS]
01:12:48 ◼ ► Box wants to the name or the four you're probably not going to think that's worth it which is what that article says. [TS]
01:12:55 ◼ ► But there's something really factoring has been in the chat room listened mangles article but it's our event [TS]
01:13:01 ◼ ► but you know if you are if you are that into games you're not buying those things period like yours you're not maybe [TS]
01:13:10 ◼ ► but you're probably as the parent you're probably not going to use that yourself very much if you can help it. [TS]
01:13:16 ◼ ► There's this whole other market of people like me people who primarily want it for its media functions [TS]
01:13:24 ◼ ► and if it can also play games great. But we weren't going out there and spending sixty bucks to buy G.T.A. [TS]
01:13:30 ◼ ► Six like that was not us that was that was possibly never us it was definitely not us now [TS]
01:13:38 ◼ ► and I think you know the I think the game console makers realize that their market is declining because they're trying [TS]
01:13:48 ◼ ► Apple already has a very successful little media box people buy and put it on their T.V.'s [TS]
01:13:53 ◼ ► and Apple is going to approach it from the other way the same way you know the Amazon Fire box is doing it you know. [TS]
01:14:05 ◼ ► Here's a game controller for it and an app store you can spend three dollars to buy a game for it if you want to [TS]
01:14:10 ◼ ► and it's not going to be you know a AAA awesome world class game with a fifty million dollar budget. [TS]
01:14:20 ◼ ► and there's it's a totally different market adult if you add games the same way that the other console that a T.V. [TS]
01:14:26 ◼ ► Features the i had it because it's right there you might as well do it you have the hardware available [TS]
01:14:36 ◼ ► and people are not going to buy the Apple thing to play games unless Apple get serious about games because well Apple [TS]
01:14:41 ◼ ► will be competing with is the one thousand dollars box from Playstation which they've had for a while in Europe [TS]
01:14:52 ◼ ► Why would you buy the ninety nine dollars box and Play Station that streams Netflix [TS]
01:14:56 ◼ ► and does whatever the hell they're going to do. You know like does all the same things that the little T.V. [TS]
01:15:00 ◼ ► Why would you buy the Playstation one and not the Amazon one why would you buy the Amazon not the apple [TS]
01:15:04 ◼ ► and will if you care anything about games of course are going to buy the Playstation one because like they have that [TS]
01:15:09 ◼ ► thing where I can play the old old P S three games I was a streaming service a place to be to games natively. [TS]
01:15:13 ◼ ► Like it's always going to have the better games but if you don't care about games you'll buy the Amazon Fire T.V. [TS]
01:15:20 ◼ ► and play whatever I.O.'s game support to it like that bifurcation in the market already exists [TS]
01:15:34 ◼ ► but it didn't it didn't disrupt to the degree that the home console business became an viable [TS]
01:15:40 ◼ ► and so if that split just continues on the television I think that you'll still end up with the same scenario where you [TS]
01:15:48 ◼ ► and I don't think anyone will buy the Apple park to play games on the Playstation Pocock this or the Microsoft park [TS]
01:15:55 ◼ ► or whatever you know it's going to be the same thing in the park or is on a T.V. Where it's just. [TS]
01:16:00 ◼ ► Which one you want depends on what you care about more the way you win in the game space is not having attack not [TS]
01:16:08 ◼ ► and Apple has certain kinds of games that they have locked up like you know the Iowa style games they have them first [TS]
01:16:20 ◼ ► and I'm not sure that the casual type of games that Apple is dominant on if ported to the television if that type of [TS]
01:16:28 ◼ ► and Play on a couch I think want to sit on a couch and are going to play games in that context. [TS]
01:16:32 ◼ ► They would prefer to get the Playstation park for a similar price and play those games. [TS]
01:16:39 ◼ ► You're coming at this all wrong because you're coming at this from the perspective of a gamer [TS]
01:16:42 ◼ ► and I don't think that's what that's what Ben is trying to portray he's trying to say it's a more opportunistic [TS]
01:16:47 ◼ ► attention grab based on the fact that Mark and I both have these brand new Apple T.V.'s [TS]
01:16:53 ◼ ► and you know what I wouldn't mind playing a OK game every once in a while I don't give a crap about Grand Theft Auto [TS]
01:16:59 ◼ ► or Call of Duty or any or what have you I just want to occasionally sit down and blow some crap up [TS]
01:17:08 ◼ ► We're going to make our buying decisions not not based on which of these pucks has the games you want. [TS]
01:17:14 ◼ ► We're going to make it this and other factors like if we if we use if we have Amazon Prime and this fire T.V. [TS]
01:17:21 ◼ ► and comes of this this video streaming service that we're already paying for a crime that well my look at that if we if [TS]
01:17:33 ◼ ► and so it's like if we're going to buy a puck anyway you know it's you know if we only want to have one if we only can [TS]
01:17:40 ◼ ► afford one then the other factors that go into these various media ecosystems that these things are made to play are [TS]
01:17:50 ◼ ► And so you're going to have Amazon customer of mine Amazon one an i Tunes customers buying the Apple one well that's [TS]
01:17:55 ◼ ► what I said before that like if you're if you're choosing based on games you're going to do something longer if you're [TS]
01:18:02 ◼ ► but the whole the premises article is how Apple might disrupt Microsoft and Sony and it's not disrupting Microsoft [TS]
01:18:07 ◼ ► and Sony if people are not changing their purchase decisions if you're going to always buy Apple T.V. [TS]
01:18:19 ◼ ► and you decide you know what instead I'm going to buy the Apple thing because that's good enough [TS]
01:18:22 ◼ ► or I'm going to buy the Sony part because that's good enough to disrupt the market you have that you have to basically [TS]
01:18:27 ◼ ► take your low end thing and buy that instead of the high end thing and you have to eat your way up the chain. [TS]
01:18:34 ◼ ► And I'm saying eating away at the chain at a certain point you cannot eat up any higher because you just don't have the [TS]
01:18:40 ◼ ► Apple could not do this I'm saying the hard part is not the technology the hard part is getting the games to consume in [TS]
01:18:47 ◼ ► and again people thought this is going to happen in the mobile game space like oh you think these mobile games are [TS]
01:18:54 ◼ ► and no one's going to be able to like a low end disruption to these games using an Uber is a stupid [TS]
01:19:01 ◼ ► but you just wait in five years there won't even be a high end market because low in disruption will destroy them. [TS]
01:19:08 ◼ ► I think you cannot you cannot disrupt the big players in the game market without having really good games [TS]
01:19:19 ◼ ► and thus far Apple has not shown that it's willing to do what it takes to get the really good games to stop people who [TS]
01:19:25 ◼ ► think you know what I was going to buy but I don't need anymore. All my gaming needs are now met by this Apple device. [TS]
01:19:31 ◼ ► I get your point your point is correct that Apple will not take over the high end but I think I think you know Apple [TS]
01:19:39 ◼ ► or boxes like this if Amazon you know continues their effort of actually succeeding games I think the big risk here is [TS]
01:19:45 ◼ ► not that these media companies are going to take over the high end of gaming it's that they're going to be good enough. [TS]
01:19:51 ◼ ► And with such a massive price advantage I mean you see this all the time this is classic disruption was saying that [TS]
01:20:02 ◼ ► and they don't have to take over land they are known to be dying it is not viable but that's what I'm saying. [TS]
01:20:15 ◼ ► Apple doesn't have to get those customers they just have to starve the companies that make them to death [TS]
01:20:19 ◼ ► and say you can keep trying to do that but we're going to make your business on viable [TS]
01:20:24 ◼ ► and I don't think that can happen because I think enough people want really good games the kind of which Apple has has [TS]
01:20:38 ◼ ► I think one thing Apple has going for it is that in the realm of T.V. Connected parks. Apple has a good store. [TS]
01:20:47 ◼ ► Amazon has a pretty good store in the game console makers are not that great about having a nice convenient app stores [TS]
01:20:54 ◼ ► that regular people can use that don't suck or don't have your credit card stolen from them. [TS]
01:21:01 ◼ ► The one advantage all the Apple has is they have experience in selling you three are things like trying to clean [TS]
01:21:11 ◼ ► and if they can leverage their I.O.'s advantage that you can sell you buy it here and you can play it on your T.V. [TS]
01:21:15 ◼ ► and all these other things like that that is an advantage they have in the gaming space for for casual gaming [TS]
01:21:20 ◼ ► but the way I see it playing out unless something changes seriously is that your T.V. [TS]
01:21:25 ◼ ► Will become just like every other part of the current market where there's a split between the people who want to be [TS]
01:21:39 ◼ ► and I do think it's a declining market I think the people who want to go to games is declining. [TS]
01:21:43 ◼ ► It's just not declining so Persepolis Lee that I'm going to say that Apple or Microsoft [TS]
01:21:48 ◼ ► or Sony for that matter are poised to disrupt the high end gaming market by making it on viable Sony clearly is hedging [TS]
01:21:56 ◼ ► its bets with its little T.V. Puck thing saying well if it's going to happen we should do it to us. [TS]
01:22:01 ◼ ► and I'll see how it felt in respect to catch on I'm just on the I was no problem redirecting their attention in the [TS]
01:22:06 ◼ ► next generation to puck like devices. I don't know if my just playing the have a puck but it wouldn't surprise me. [TS]
01:22:15 ◼ ► Box One of making people say all right we've got one more generation breathing room US are planning our next gen [TS]
01:22:19 ◼ ► and see see how things shake out. So thanks a lot two or three sponsors this week. [TS]
01:22:35 ◼ ► Now it was accidental accidental John and you are now sitting on the current perpetrator. [TS]
01:23:39 ◼ ► and because this actually did my homework for me to have has played journey after years of listening to John tell us [TS]
01:23:54 ◼ ► Tiff actually played it because John discovered while talking to the B.B.C. This week. [TS]
01:24:00 ◼ ► That she is a gamer and I have apparently hidden this fact from all of you guys until this point but she is a gamer. [TS]
01:24:07 ◼ ► Sometimes And she's actually better than me at that I was ever you know we both played [TS]
01:24:13 ◼ ► and Anyway so she did my homework for me. And here she is. How do you what's going on. [TS]
01:24:23 ◼ ► If I hypothetically did eventually want to play this game is this going to spoil everything. [TS]
01:24:31 ◼ ► He was being planned that he knows it's going to be never going to play and he's so terrible. [TS]
01:24:39 ◼ ► Casey you should you should not listen I'm telling you you should go away and come come back later. [TS]
01:24:46 ◼ ► Do you really want me to not was because of the likelihood of the parlour Bell Jason Felch crying somewhere where the [TS]
01:24:51 ◼ ► and tell you what do you really want to go away because yes you should to be you know you played on your value could [TS]
01:25:01 ◼ ► Well just to be clear the likelihood I cannot play this game until somebody you'll be able to play it on your mind [TS]
01:25:06 ◼ ► and other places and talking about a year or so right now I'm going to take my headphones off [TS]
01:25:15 ◼ ► but we need those job Zinga taking my headphones off by its a gun yes or safe. OK so where should I start. [TS]
01:25:28 ◼ ► I guess at the beginning I've done all my homework I play the game now four times and I listen to the incomparable [TS]
01:25:35 ◼ ► and I read your article so homework done so you tweeted after you played with in a mode not a mode you conversant [TS]
01:25:46 ◼ ► but it was like the biting down teeth kind of like what it made it seem like is that you did not like this game [TS]
01:25:53 ◼ ► when you first played it well the first time I played it without anything just sitting down playing it knowing nothing [TS]
01:26:01 ◼ ► Well I thought first of all so spoiler bow I thought like the people who I was with were a I so I was like This is just [TS]
01:26:12 ◼ ► And then I felt like it was a game that I got siphoned through so that is super interesting because that's why I don't [TS]
01:26:23 ◼ ► but not to tell you that it was a net or game because I don't want people to know that people are real people [TS]
01:26:37 ◼ ► and then because there's really no like the challenge you just kind of like Who's through this world [TS]
01:26:42 ◼ ► and you do some things and you know certain things will attack you but there are no real cause no consequences for it. [TS]
01:26:58 ◼ ► when the people are interacting with you that they couldn't possibly be because they exhibit behaviors [TS]
01:27:04 ◼ ► Well maybe like the people that I played with were just kind of like helping me like jump [TS]
01:27:12 ◼ ► But after I listened to the incomparable and then realized that they were real people [TS]
01:27:16 ◼ ► and then I started getting into like everything that you guys were talking about on that episode about why it was a [TS]
01:27:23 ◼ ► and the whole article that you wrote about people being nice to each other and all that. [TS]
01:27:30 ◼ ► when I played it the second time I really felt like I got it you know I was also playing with someone who was like showing [TS]
01:27:37 ◼ ► me where things were so I can get my scarf really long so that was fun so I was like following him around [TS]
01:27:52 ◼ ► and I guess that I think I set an example I feel lucky that my first play through was so perfect in the way that it was [TS]
01:28:00 ◼ ► As a gamer who like plays things on hard mode was that you wouldn't that you wouldn't to like realize that there are no [TS]
01:28:06 ◼ ► consequences for failure because you wouldn't fail like that you wouldn't be attacked by those things [TS]
01:28:13 ◼ ► and realize oh in the matter HOW MANY TIMES attack I never died just my soffit scarf get shorter until a certain point [TS]
01:28:18 ◼ ► I don't actually die at is an incomparable great thing about the game is it doesn't tell you what the consequences are [TS]
01:28:24 ◼ ► so you don't you don't have a health meter you don't know what it takes for you to die or if you can diet also. [TS]
01:28:28 ◼ ► So if you're in a particular mind that you might be like I don't know what's going to happen. [TS]
01:28:32 ◼ ► I have nothing to fall back on I can't look at my number of hearts up on the screen [TS]
01:28:39 ◼ ► and I don't want to die because I'm in the middle of this experience with this other person [TS]
01:28:47 ◼ ► and the type of person who could find themselves getting attached to an AI like if there was just a really good AI in [TS]
01:28:52 ◼ ► the game and I felt like protective of it or attached to it as a companion I would be sad if it died [TS]
01:29:00 ◼ ► when I was playing with that person even though I realize the person I would feel like they let them down. [TS]
01:29:04 ◼ ► But like when you're hiding in those little and the little pieces in the snowy part and someone pokes out [TS]
01:29:11 ◼ ► and I just felt terrible that I did that person it was like attention for the rest of the game that I had let this [TS]
01:29:18 ◼ ► Yeah I mean I totally get that and I specially felt that the second time through like I was really upset [TS]
01:29:23 ◼ ► when I lost my my companion the second time I played it because he was helping me do all this stuff [TS]
01:29:32 ◼ ► and I was really upset I was like waiting for the mikes to give my little song in the dark like at the end like waiting [TS]
01:29:38 ◼ ► and then I ended up in a second the next level with some like little tiny short scarf new black jumping up [TS]
01:29:48 ◼ ► and I'm like I can't help you I don't know what I'm doing so I did left him in the dust and I kept on going [TS]
01:29:53 ◼ ► and then my long scar friends showed up again and so I like Joyce and longs to gather and so that was really great. [TS]
01:30:08 ◼ ► when you're going up the tower the snow tower my like a little buddy who I was with who I thought was an AI like froze [TS]
01:30:14 ◼ ► to death he just like sat down and was like shivering and not moving and I was like singing at him [TS]
01:30:22 ◼ ► when I was the first time I thought like OK so I had a companion through the middle of the game I didn't have one in [TS]
01:30:32 ◼ ► and alone I'm like OK I guess this is just the time that I don't have a double of me that I go up with so it was [TS]
01:30:44 ◼ ► What I told my wife when she was asking so that I thought you didn't like the game [TS]
01:30:48 ◼ ► and she was asking why I said My theory was that since you are a gamer that I didn't know that you had that you thought [TS]
01:30:55 ◼ ► and I the whole time of this fits is that if you feel like you're playing a game the whole time you're playing this [TS]
01:31:02 ◼ ► and this would hurt for somebody who plays games on hard because you want like a challenge like if you were always in [TS]
01:31:10 ◼ ► and you're always in the headspace of I'm watching a movie the movies they get you. [TS]
01:31:13 ◼ ► You forget you're watching a movie and you feel like you're experiencing what you're experiencing [TS]
01:31:17 ◼ ► and if your journey relies entirely on that happening because not every game does like if you're playing a first person [TS]
01:31:22 ◼ ► shooter and super hard mode you can feel like you're playing a game the whole time it's totally satisfying. [TS]
01:31:30 ◼ ► when sometimes you're going through like some of the areas I felt like I could just let go of my controller [TS]
01:31:34 ◼ ► and it would just go there for me you know like I was just being funneled through the game. [TS]
01:31:39 ◼ ► Well yeah like it is you can't you can't feel like you're playing a game like this yes if you think about it for two [TS]
01:31:45 ◼ ► but it's like you know you can't you can't think that way you have to you have to think I am here this is happening to [TS]
01:31:51 ◼ ► me and why whatever one of the sections where you're sort of surfing down the hill [TS]
01:31:55 ◼ ► and stuff the reason I found those those levels so amazing is because like early in the game you. [TS]
01:32:04 ◼ ► There's no you're not you don't get extra points for going through the little stanchions you know the little gate that [TS]
01:32:09 ◼ ► but that's not there like oh you have to do that you have your bonus No it's all about just having fun you had to feel [TS]
01:32:14 ◼ ► like you're there and enjoying the little sort of a dolphin things diving through the sand and going the why. [TS]
01:32:22 ◼ ► No you jump ahead because it's fun and you really have to just feel like you're there [TS]
01:32:25 ◼ ► and if the entire time you feel like you're playing a game then it's like well this game is not challenging this game [TS]
01:32:30 ◼ ► is not interesting this game doesn't offer me anything doesn't offer me extra power up extra weapons all the things [TS]
01:32:35 ◼ ► that you would you know in a game in a game where you can be OK if you like to play a game you have to not feel like [TS]
01:32:43 ◼ ► and realizing there are other people probably helps you with that because then it's like oh I'm not playing a game in [TS]
01:32:55 ◼ ► or joyful Oh yeah yeah yeah they're holy they're going through all the emotions of what's happening [TS]
01:33:02 ◼ ► And what they're using is an app that has a text box and a bunch of little text box over and over. [TS]
01:33:07 ◼ ► But their experience is like oh no no they're connected to the person on the other end of this like end journey does [TS]
01:33:15 ◼ ► and it can elicit the same type of emotions because like I said an article they shave they shave off every possible way [TS]
01:33:21 ◼ ► that person can be a jerk to you and all that's left is the good and in general people are good to each other [TS]
01:33:31 ◼ ► So it's like a relentlessly positive experience with that with that whole argument so that's exactly why I disagree [TS]
01:33:37 ◼ ► when you first play the game that someone should know that you're playing with other people because the game was [TS]
01:33:43 ◼ ► infinitely more enjoyable for me when I realize that it was just another person with me [TS]
01:33:48 ◼ ► and said of just an AI And so I didn't enjoy the game and I thought it was a I but I love the game. [TS]
01:34:02 ◼ ► and I didn't have a tumbler more what was it in the paper mark like you played with Instapaper market like no you're [TS]
01:34:12 ◼ ► But like that's you know that that whole experience of with other people made it so much better [TS]
01:34:19 ◼ ► and I would have never played the game again if it was anything like the first time I played it I was hoping that you [TS]
01:34:28 ◼ ► but figured out at like five minutes because that realisation that it's another person is a fun realisation. [TS]
01:34:34 ◼ ► You know again if you don't like that that's the common experiences if they don't know it's actually think it is AI [TS]
01:34:40 ◼ ► but then figure out that it's not the it's kind of like the reverse Blair Witch Project. [TS]
01:34:43 ◼ ► Like if you see the movie and then you think it's real it's great the first time you see it [TS]
01:34:49 ◼ ► and then you realize it's not real and it sucks. It's the worst movie ever. So journey is reversed. [TS]
01:34:55 ◼ ► Yeah people do go back and play journey I mean do you have your white robes yet are you on the path to get there. [TS]
01:35:00 ◼ ► Well no because now I got cheated out of it out of an entire play through because I played on Marco's account [TS]
01:35:09 ◼ ► and so I only have to play through the mind although I found like this crazy shortcut where you can jump to any level [TS]
01:35:18 ◼ ► and I was like what on earth the hub the hub level if you want to get the white run the white robe is the one thing [TS]
01:35:24 ◼ ► that is game like in this in a storyboard multiple play through as you don't have to play a certain number of times [TS]
01:35:31 ◼ ► but you can play if you want to have the white robe Well your robe gets all like in much more intricate on the bottom [TS]
01:35:41 ◼ ► but the white robe is not dependent on that filling up you could fill up the entire thing [TS]
01:35:48 ◼ ► or oh yeah i still gotta find all the little symbols everywhere because yeah I think I could do much better [TS]
01:35:54 ◼ ► and there's not much you know the stuff the only collectible in the game of little symbols [TS]
01:36:00 ◼ ► You get the symbol you're playing with someone else they get it too you don't steal from them. [TS]
01:36:03 ◼ ► Oh yeah yeah I think that that's great because then you can do that with the one for the second time I played through [TS]
01:36:07 ◼ ► the person was showing me where everything was and helping me get them so we like both had the same length scarf [TS]
01:36:14 ◼ ► and I found like a little new person I was like Come with me I know where these things are [TS]
01:36:20 ◼ ► when you get into the levels that have danger then it's like I mean even though the stakes are like like you know you [TS]
01:36:26 ◼ ► and you don't want your New You want to protect your new person of the someone new with you [TS]
01:36:30 ◼ ► or if you have a long scarf yourself you like look I worked for the earlier part of this game to get this I don't want [TS]
01:36:35 ◼ ► to be taken from and then yeah so what do you think of the ending part where you are in the snow [TS]
01:36:41 ◼ ► and how that answers that all I've done I was like I don't know I thought I failed the first time I played I was I was [TS]
01:36:50 ◼ ► and my you know I like that's it it's over I need to do something again I need to go back and do it again [TS]
01:37:00 ◼ ► when you go up after you die in the snow and or whatever happens to you in the snow [TS]
01:37:04 ◼ ► and you go up to the mountain like Earth that's right into the side of the mountain of not going to the mountain of [TS]
01:37:10 ◼ ► jumping Oh it was horrible I'm like This is supposed to be my moment numb like caught underneath the mountain. [TS]
01:37:17 ◼ ► So the for the story part of the game where you are you on board with that where you're paying attention to the cut [TS]
01:37:27 ◼ ► Oh yeah definitely and like how all the little markers are all really graves and you know all this stuff [TS]
01:37:36 ◼ ► when you have a companion with you it shows it on the wall that there's someone else with you [TS]
01:37:43 ◼ ► and yeah I thought it was I thought it was a really nice story that it was simple it was uplifting you know like it. [TS]
01:37:53 ◼ ► For my one pleasure that you know you only have one chance to make the first play there I'm so happy that I happened to [TS]
01:38:00 ◼ ► and then found someone that had a sort of experience with them in which I disappointed him [TS]
01:38:08 ◼ ► or like you get up to that final sort of snowy part where it's quiet and your scarf is gone [TS]
01:38:13 ◼ ► and the light is right there the thing you've been trying to get for the whole time I was that you had someone going [TS]
01:38:21 ◼ ► and that's a thing waiting it waiting at the top you're like is that person going to come. [TS]
01:38:25 ◼ ► Nobody showed up I was like like you know and no one's coming because I keep crashing into the mountain [TS]
01:38:34 ◼ ► Yeah I've waited I would at the top several times for people sometimes I shop sometimes it up at the first time we kind [TS]
01:38:39 ◼ ► of like I mean the first time you know you don't know what's going to happen on a snowy thing [TS]
01:38:42 ◼ ► and I was with the person going up a snowy thing we both pitch over into the snow I thought like you. [TS]
01:38:47 ◼ ► That's the end of the game because like you know I mean if you saw the ending of The Sopranos with all sorts of you [TS]
01:38:55 ◼ ► but that wasn't the end like you know you were in you you end up in that in that other place. [TS]
01:39:02 ◼ ► and we sort of like swoop to the top of that mountain together joyously not crashing to the side of the mountain while [TS]
01:39:08 ◼ ► Yeah like because I live in you and you were saying no this is your freedom and you get to play around [TS]
01:39:14 ◼ ► and I'm there like crash into the side of the mountain stuck underneath like this snowy bank [TS]
01:39:18 ◼ ► and I'm I'm walking I'm like this is over that everyone else is flying is like happy music [TS]
01:39:23 ◼ ► and the scars are everywhere in the little like the friendly little carpet dogs are like you know [TS]
01:39:28 ◼ ► when everything's happening I'm like under that mountain of like what kind of a hell game or am I just terrible. [TS]
01:39:37 ◼ ► but if you have hops around I think you know the carpet are still loyal and they come by is this [TS]
01:39:43 ◼ ► and that's one of the snow off it kills me that they had a thing called a little and you can't take it with you. [TS]
01:39:53 ◼ ► but like you can't control like if I wanted it to be so much because you're like it's going to be so good [TS]
01:40:00 ◼ ► Patients really don't like this game it's just kind of like a funnel game as they call them they just want to let go of [TS]
01:40:06 ◼ ► and you're like this is you need to be engaged to not like you need to not be thinking that's a possibility because [TS]
01:40:11 ◼ ► there is no control over to Munich a troll you're walking through a desert there's no controller like you need to get [TS]
01:40:18 ◼ ► and that's why I said like an episode of a pedophile in our past A.D.P.s was a journey would be wasted on Marco [TS]
01:40:24 ◼ ► Hell yeah he would just be like this is why did I just do this he's like he would be like why did I just play this game. [TS]
01:40:29 ◼ ► Because he would never get into that headspace like it like you know you're getting into runs I can play there's no [TS]
01:40:34 ◼ ► you're having like the actual experience of the game or whatever you have to you have to be there in the game [TS]
01:40:39 ◼ ► and you have to like be absorbed in the story and be appreciative of a pretty desert [TS]
01:40:44 ◼ ► and a cute little frozen cloth thing and the scary dragons and like if you're never going to get into that space [TS]
01:40:50 ◼ ► and you're always just think I'm sitting on a couch holding a controller. You'll never enjoy the game. [TS]
01:40:54 ◼ ► and you know honestly that I would have been I would have just stopped right there if it were my first play through [TS]
01:41:04 ◼ ► and that that sucked me back in so I really do like the game so what are we going next time. [TS]
01:41:11 ◼ ► when I read it seem like you didn't like it isn't like oh all these other recommendations I had heard now I'm not even [TS]
01:41:16 ◼ ► going to give them because if she didn't like if you didn't like Journey it's clear it's clear our taste in games [TS]
01:41:24 ◼ ► and you're unlike Marco it's totally clear that you're gamer but maybe just like the same type of games that I do [TS]
01:41:28 ◼ ► or you know like if you going to recommend a movie to someone you met I recommend like a Fellini movie [TS]
01:41:31 ◼ ► and they hate it is like well you know we like different kinds of movies it's not necessarily a bad movie [TS]
01:41:37 ◼ ► and journey I can continue your list of games that you can play I think I can be I can be very open minded with most [TS]
01:41:48 ◼ ► and then I can go like you know to the shoot em up Halo Half-Life kind of stuff again so I'm pretty versatile. [TS]
01:41:55 ◼ ► So what are you in the mood for you in the mood for a game that is more kind of like not. [TS]
01:42:00 ◼ ► Who hard not to challenging all about atmosphere and relationships will definitely do you think a play during nap time. [TS]
01:42:09 ◼ ► and it's like my traditional thing is if you have a Play Station three you need to play ego shall the Colossus [TS]
01:42:15 ◼ ► and journey and the Last of Us and The Last of Us is the most traditional game straight up. [TS]
01:42:25 ◼ ► but it's like a very well done one of those games that is one of the few as I used to like [TS]
01:42:30 ◼ ► and like that so that if you're in the mood for that type of game that is the one to get it will satisfy you on all the [TS]
01:42:35 ◼ ► levels that those type of games satisfy people if you're into that. Yeah that sounds good. [TS]
01:42:40 ◼ ► and then if if you get through that maybe you will have like had enough junk food that you'll be in the mood for ego [TS]
01:42:49 ◼ ► and I already played a Walking Dead chat room you didn't the best No no no not walking dead now now the other keys on [TS]
01:42:56 ◼ ► Yeah I recommend it I recommend walking dead you play if I don't I feed to see what your taste is like more so we said [TS]
01:43:02 ◼ ► we've got one end of the spectrum a journey the last of us is pretty much on the other end of the spectrum it's not I [TS]
01:43:08 ◼ ► guess the Grand Theft Auto be the other end of the spectrum but now I know I played that one too. [TS]
01:43:11 ◼ ► So the Last of Us is more serious you'll see that all my games are like put this way. I like one hour dramas on T.V. [TS]
01:43:19 ◼ ► The games I recommend are old games you'd see recommended by someone who watches one hour dramas on T.V. [TS]
01:43:32 ◼ ► Yeah it was very like they'll be right though the asking it's nothing like the gameplay hasn't it looked like it looks [TS]
01:43:39 ◼ ► but it is it is like Journey in that you have to be there otherwise you feel like this game is not hard there are there [TS]
01:43:45 ◼ ► are no exciting power ups there's no level meter on not leveling this like all those things that you can put you have [TS]
01:43:53 ◼ ► but I think it's like journey before a journey it was my like my go to like games as art place. [TS]
01:44:00 ◼ ► Three That game is considerably longer than journeys like eleven hours is a little bit harder in terms of puzzles [TS]
01:44:05 ◼ ► and if you have a low tolerance for puzzles you might find it frustrating or annoying but I really love it. [TS]
01:44:13 ◼ ► and to the point where I'm not sure that you would actually finish the game because you feel like you know what I've [TS]
01:44:26 ◼ ► Yeah it's not the best controller you know but it has the same mood as you go it's from the same developer [TS]
01:44:35 ◼ ► So so I would say go to Last of Us next because that is very straight ahead I think one of the best games for the Play [TS]
01:44:43 ◼ ► and if you make it through that that should be like sixteen twenty hour something like that. [TS]
01:44:50 ◼ ► Excellent Well I don't think taking two to three hour nap so that plus some evenings I think I can plaster healthy That [TS]
01:45:02 ◼ ► Marco has his he's just a lost cause like maybe Marco complained last honest with you [TS]
01:45:10 ◼ ► and Mike will check out my video game really good to hear then you make some like snide remark about it [TS]
01:45:15 ◼ ► and be like Did you know. Yeah exactly. He'll put on the face and you'll disappear to the world and that'll be it. [TS]
01:45:28 ◼ ► I tell him to come back and I do my go back to thanks for talking to me about June. [TS]
01:45:33 ◼ ► Sure any time any time you want to kick Margraf show you can come back here that you're out. [TS]