00:00:00 ◼ ► Oh my goodness. His sausages are wonderful. If I gave you a playlist of M P three S. [TS]
00:00:10 ◼ ► and It lasted say half an hour to forty five minutes would you play that instead of that god awful crap that you make [TS]
00:00:16 ◼ ► everyone listen to every week. Probably not but I would at least be willing to consider it. [TS]
00:00:25 ◼ ► Yeah I mean since chances are not great I'll tell you that but but I would consider it. [TS]
00:00:31 ◼ ► Fair enough but as everyone in the chat room thanking you don't know the music yet. [TS]
00:00:37 ◼ ► That's a good point I mean what if it's just like a bunch of Dave Matthews Band like is that really an improvement. [TS]
00:00:41 ◼ ► I would argue not it it obviously would not be a bunch of Dave Matthews The only reason I would play a bunch of Dave [TS]
00:00:53 ◼ ► and B I did it just to troll Marco which I don't think I care enough so I would like to offer my services as unofficial [TS]
00:01:03 ◼ ► official D.J. or Official unofficial D.J. If you will if you ever find the need arises. [TS]
00:01:13 ◼ ► I don't know if I throw in some video game soundtracks some mash ups that I like weird things I would probably do is [TS]
00:01:34 ◼ ► But somebody pointed out to me that the journey soundtrack was available on i Tunes and it was like five [TS]
00:01:46 ◼ ► So do you remember the transportation soundtrack was like really snazzy and snappy jazz. [TS]
00:01:52 ◼ ► Yeah yeah it was actually pretty good. It was pretty good. Somebody eventually like made M P three S. [TS]
00:02:17 ◼ ► I'm sure that the community of transfer take Hoon revivalists which is quite large actually [TS]
00:02:25 ◼ ► and has I mean because if anyone out there is a fan of prints were taken and you don't know about open T.T.D. [TS]
00:02:37 ◼ ► and it runs on everything it runs on Macs Linux Windows some a couple he leave important i Pad here [TS]
00:02:43 ◼ ► and there over the i Pad ports are terrible but it mainly runs on MAC Windows and Linux and it is so good [TS]
00:02:48 ◼ ► and they've added features to the game and even proving that like improve the the path finding of the trains [TS]
00:02:53 ◼ ► and everything they've added different features they have a whole new signals hype and they say was more useful. [TS]
00:03:00 ◼ ► Oh man if if you if you ever played transfer take who never even Sim City two thousand [TS]
00:03:10 ◼ ► Yeah it's really fantastic in fact I think we've mentioned this on the show at some point or another [TS]
00:03:14 ◼ ► but transports Akun in Visual Basic one were pretty much how you and I became friends. That's right. [TS]
00:03:24 ◼ ► Yeah that probably could have it doesn't mean we would have found something else to do inside of your computer. [TS]
00:03:28 ◼ ► We didn't have those to the street the only time I've ever seen it was to warp those were the days. [TS]
00:03:34 ◼ ► I got English I feel like O S two needs like a guy in wish bell just like file systems and each of us pluses. [TS]
00:03:41 ◼ ► John's bell some some kind of like dull funk like you know to warp. But goodness what's going on. Any follow up. [TS]
00:03:55 ◼ ► Yeah I thought when I remember Salva feeling lonely just like laughed off and follow. [TS]
00:04:00 ◼ ► But I don't I qualify as well though I did it was the beginning of the show I just knew that [TS]
00:04:03 ◼ ► when I'm going to do show no it's this makes it into the show that that I would want to look at it there. [TS]
00:04:09 ◼ ► So it's not strictly follow up I'm sorry for tainting the sanctity of your follow up. [TS]
00:04:17 ◼ ► Mail related bugs and how the public beta program for Yosemite might help catch some potential bugs. [TS]
00:04:33 ◼ ► Mail bug it was not so much that Apple didn't catch it in Mavericks it's just that it was difficult to figure out how [TS]
00:04:39 ◼ ► to fix in time for the ship date and they just shipped knowing that there were bugs [TS]
00:04:42 ◼ ► and knowing they plan to fix them and were working on The Fix long before maverick ship [TS]
00:04:46 ◼ ► and ship the fix as soon as they got it fixed. Considering there's a second party involved they're getting like G. [TS]
00:04:51 ◼ ► Mail on the other end over there and maybe a bug that involves Google and also involved Apple. [TS]
00:05:00 ◼ ► and on last show so I thought I just mentioned now I don't think it's worth mentioning so in the context of those who [TS]
00:05:13 ◼ ► and I believe John I believe you would asserted that certainly some people in Google use Apple Mail and there is [TS]
00:05:23 ◼ ► and I said I'd be pretty surprised if there were any significant portion of people who work for Google using an Apple [TS]
00:05:34 ◼ ► and we heard from a few people who work at Google who said you know universally they all said nobody there uses Apple [TS]
00:05:41 ◼ ► Mail or you know effectively nobody but they also that they've never seen anyone use it [TS]
00:05:45 ◼ ► and pretty much everyone uses email because you know the workflow that are built around it [TS]
00:05:49 ◼ ► and everything it's like Apple Mail's presence in among Google employees is apparently nearly zero which does not [TS]
00:06:00 ◼ ► I was like oh I tried to use Apple Maps. They also that Macs are very prevalent there which you already know. [TS]
00:06:03 ◼ ► Right so if it ever got Macs and one of the persons like when I came I tried using Apple Mail [TS]
00:06:09 ◼ ► Like everyone was using G M L And I'm wondering if they have some kind of like plugins [TS]
00:06:14 ◼ ► or urge email labs things like what is it about the web interface that kind of makes it so that Apple Mail isn't viable [TS]
00:06:22 ◼ ► but I was like What is the is that just like peer pressure that everybody's using mail as it gets maybe integration [TS]
00:06:39 ◼ ► That it's that lease that one person felt like there was you know that it was not even a viable thing to do not just [TS]
00:06:45 ◼ ► but just like once you're in Google you're going to use email because the way it's done right you know it would be [TS]
00:06:51 ◼ ► difficult for you to use that will melt just a bit and whether that was technical political or both. [TS]
00:06:58 ◼ ► I think it was kind of less imagination but I'm guessing it's probably some of both. [TS]
00:07:03 ◼ ► The weird thing about the political angle is like oh you know well it's like dog food like why wouldn't if you're not [TS]
00:07:10 ◼ ► and you know like you could use your own your own things should be good enough for you to use. [TS]
00:07:14 ◼ ► But like like I said and what wasn't it wasn't contradicted by any of the e-mails. [TS]
00:07:23 ◼ ► or why a Chromebook not good enough for everybody I mean I guess Bill doesn't really make a sort of full fledged [TS]
00:07:28 ◼ ► computer but for developers or whatever but they're there you know arch rival Apple they're using all their hardware [TS]
00:07:38 ◼ ► but for the laptops that are all mac so makes you wonder if like is Google motivated to make a sort of non Chromebook [TS]
00:07:47 ◼ ► I mean throwing out windows so they're like they're internally conflicted no matter what. [TS]
00:07:52 ◼ ► and there is a whole I mean I think a lot of this is is kind of you know company culture as well like there's a whole [TS]
00:08:04 ◼ ► But aren't all in on Apple's other stuff you know they use Chrome the browser they probably use G.-Mail in in a web [TS]
00:08:10 ◼ ► or something of their mail client like there's a whole lot of people out there who function that way just fine [TS]
00:08:18 ◼ ► and I would imagine those people are more likely to want to work for Google than somebody who's all in the whole of [TS]
00:08:25 ◼ ► So you know probably among their employees going to self-selecting were like their employees probably just want to use [TS]
00:08:38 ◼ ► and then you have a bunch of terminal windows in which you run like emacs or something [TS]
00:08:44 ◼ ► but I'm like why do you need Apple hardware Why can't you get by with a chrome book that you know you know how you [TS]
00:08:49 ◼ ► locally compiling things and go in C. Plus plus is that why you need to have a better C.P.U. [TS]
00:08:54 ◼ ► Than the Chromebook you just want nicer hardware like you know I'm not that's not much soul searching searching about [TS]
00:09:03 ◼ ► when I use it I mean the all Google services I'm using you know whatever weird version of Text Mate that I've kept left [TS]
00:09:08 ◼ ► over I'm using the area Macs or whatever so I don't think there's much of an apple in their face miss [TS]
00:09:16 ◼ ► and I have to think that if Google continues this kind of Microsoft like march towards There is no market we don't want [TS]
00:09:24 ◼ ► there is nothing we can do there is no reason we should rely on everybody like who really really crept up on that they [TS]
00:09:31 ◼ ► but now it just seems like if they were Microsoft like is there any business they don't want is there anything having [TS]
00:09:36 ◼ ► to do with personal computers that they don't want to like well they're not you know they make applications [TS]
00:09:44 ◼ ► but they don't make it out you are going to make an ID Well they make all the applications there is do you know basic [TS]
00:09:49 ◼ ► office OK Well now to have a paint you know well they don't make games you look at a flight simulator game consuls like [TS]
00:09:56 ◼ ► it was like I want to do everything and Google is slowly going. So far Google doesn't want to do P.C. [TS]
00:10:08 ◼ ► and Maybe they'll succeed in that someday but I have my eye on Google's megalomania. [TS]
00:10:19 ◼ ► Like it still doesn't really want to touch enterprise a ten foot pole which is why it's having a ten foot pole in [TS]
00:10:24 ◼ ► I.B.M. Touch it for them. Is there anywhere to go from here other than some something awesome. [TS]
00:10:32 ◼ ► Well actually before we do have a phone call I hope you have like follow up a draw like you have you CAN you were [TS]
00:10:38 ◼ ► holding you you had you know you have to get some kind of fall out. Well so the Apple I.B.M. [TS]
00:10:44 ◼ ► Thing we got some feedback from people who are like you know you're too down an apple about the Enterprise actually do [TS]
00:10:51 ◼ ► and I showed is that it's not like Apple really ignores it like they do do a lot of things for the enterprise they have [TS]
00:11:00 ◼ ► Are they willing to go to the lengths that other enterprise companies go to so that you can the feedback we got were [TS]
00:11:05 ◼ ► one to the people saying Apple is really doing much better in the enterprise they're not nearly as bad as you think [TS]
00:11:10 ◼ ► they are and the other is are people saying as far as Apple has come they're still bad in reason for reasons X. Y. [TS]
00:11:18 ◼ ► or like it's not they're not bolting a different Apple acing the same outfit is looking at from two to respective [TS]
00:11:25 ◼ ► and the other is that compared to the companies that build themselves around serving the enterprise there Apple is [TS]
00:11:37 ◼ ► and the question I guess I show is always what's Apple going to do about that they're going to continue to act this way [TS]
00:11:44 ◼ ► but do enough to sort of get a little bit of this isn't sort of they feel like they want more of this [TS]
00:11:50 ◼ ► but they don't want to change them they don't want to change their own behavior to get more that businesses want to [TS]
00:11:54 ◼ ► someone else. Augment their existing infrastructure and support to get more of that. [TS]
00:12:00 ◼ ► Yes indirectly we are sponsored this week once again by our friend Mal Xander at need need is a very fine retailer [TS]
00:12:17 ◼ ► Each month need curious and sells a limited quantity of exclusive products from the world's top men's brands. [TS]
00:12:24 ◼ ► These collections are presented in the form of a monthly editorial built around a certain theme [TS]
00:12:30 ◼ ► And if I may say so myself they all look really stylish and awesome beyond clothing which they have a lot of. [TS]
00:12:35 ◼ ► They also sell coffee literature furniture and lots of other cool stuff. Need is also expanding. [TS]
00:12:41 ◼ ► Soon they will localized to certain cities around the world the first of which will be London [TS]
00:12:46 ◼ ► and I'm guessing that London England or the U.K. England. I never know. Great Britain void. [TS]
00:12:52 ◼ ► I'm pretty sure one of the leaders in England I don't know what or how to refer there as the rest of it [TS]
00:12:59 ◼ ► England Great Britain continent sub continent island OK so need is only eight months old [TS]
00:13:05 ◼ ► but they will already be one of the primary sponsors of the New York Fashion Week. [TS]
00:13:09 ◼ ► Now I actually know what this is because my wife watches Project Runway do you guys actually know what Fashion Week is [TS]
00:13:15 ◼ ► it something in New York City where a bunch of fashionable people descend upon New York [TS]
00:13:28 ◼ ► and he's already doing it because Fashion Week is huge it is like in New York has all these stupid things like they [TS]
00:13:39 ◼ ► and make them make make these like events all trying to mimic Fashion Week poorly Fashion Week is the real thing. [TS]
00:13:45 ◼ ► It's what everyone else is trying to be it's such a huge deal New York need is sponsoring Fashion Week. [TS]
00:14:00 ◼ ► Turning up working independently and telling great stories in the traditional world of exclusivity and brands. [TS]
00:14:05 ◼ ► Anyway going to need addition dot com And that's not the math it's the easy addition need addition dot com Check out [TS]
00:14:13 ◼ ► their collection and it changes every month. Seriously add this to your R.S.S. Reader. [TS]
00:14:18 ◼ ► It's one post a month I mean come up if you still use our sets we'll get to that but I still use our set [TS]
00:14:24 ◼ ► and I have it in my arms as reader. Anyone who places an order with need and was sent from A.T.P. [TS]
00:14:29 ◼ ► Can send an email afterwards to hello at need addition dot com with the subject line. [TS]
00:14:38 ◼ ► They will then throw in a bunch of extras with those orders before they ship things like magazines field no socks [TS]
00:14:43 ◼ ► scarves etc and then you'll be put in a list to get twenty five percent off your next order [TS]
00:14:51 ◼ ► Eighty people are sinners if you have multiple orders where you've emailed them and gotten a twenty five percent off [TS]
00:14:56 ◼ ► You can stack that so you can get you can collect to them and get fifty percent off an order after that. [TS]
00:15:04 ◼ ► and most of all though the first five orders will receive one of five limited edition. [TS]
00:15:09 ◼ ► Never to be publicly sold need branded hats. Now I don't have a lot of hair so hats are very useful. [TS]
00:15:17 ◼ ► Need produced a need Evarts field collaboration hat if it's field is the company that created the original baseball cap [TS]
00:15:24 ◼ ► apparently these hats really worth about fifty dollars if they were sold at retail [TS]
00:15:36 ◼ ► Yeah they will just toss a sense of the first five orders that email them with this email Hello I need additional comma [TS]
00:15:42 ◼ ► after you hear this with a sort of one New York Fashion Week after you place an order this is a great deal I might do [TS]
00:15:53 ◼ ► Anyway thank you thank you very much for NEED going to need addition dot com to check it out. [TS]
00:16:00 ◼ ► I have a request for that ad read can you put in like Ragtime by on a commute. You know what I'm talking about. [TS]
00:16:07 ◼ ► and need sponsors because I can totally mess up the entire real impetus for all sorts of my own personal crap into it [TS]
00:16:14 ◼ ► and it doesn't matter because Matt is like a friend of ours so he doesn't really mind [TS]
00:16:18 ◼ ► and it still works because people keep ordering stuff so it's both a great thing for that matter is doing for us [TS]
00:16:24 ◼ ► and greeting their listeners are doing for Matt and for us indirectly by buying stuff from his company anyway even [TS]
00:16:29 ◼ ► when I fumble through the reply that right so I told you I had a piece of follow up that I know that's what it was I [TS]
00:16:44 ◼ ► Stuff input here dad but no car when he had nothing now for use to go on. Slowly it's terrible for items. [TS]
00:16:59 ◼ ► and I just feel like it's never going to get done I don't have to end up taking off time from work to get done [TS]
00:17:09 ◼ ► and like the seeds are coming out so I go this functional is building quite work Yadin [TS]
00:17:12 ◼ ► and all the stuff I don't mention you tried it doesn't work out like well does it not work it is broken [TS]
00:17:17 ◼ ► or is not work it's still like months from relays and I can't really write about it [TS]
00:17:38 ◼ ► and remove that notice oh actually no change so you don't have to making progress. [TS]
00:17:47 ◼ ► and change it even though it keeps its data and I don't know that Cheney more things than usual [TS]
00:17:52 ◼ ► or if I'm writing too early about things that I have complaints about them. It's going slowly depressing. [TS]
00:18:00 ◼ ► So some I related you had tweeted earlier today that you had something to the order of four [TS]
00:18:07 ◼ ► and any time you did anything you were you were in you were never using the wrong keyboard and mouse [TS]
00:18:13 ◼ ► and I had suggested in from your snarky reply I assume many had suggested that you should use what is it synergy is [TS]
00:18:25 ◼ ► and I'll bet you of all people should know that I know it's energy is I was encouraging you to better yourself by using [TS]
00:18:31 ◼ ► I know all about the energy I had I don't want to don't I don't need it for this like it's just a temporary situation. [TS]
00:18:38 ◼ ► I'm not trying to create a set up where I have a system where I can use five computers once I just have to do it at [TS]
00:18:45 ◼ ► remote desktop is the worst if you can kind of keep it straight if you like for the like laptops [TS]
00:18:54 ◼ ► but once you bring Remote Desktop into the mix then it's game over because now like you have the same screen three [TS]
00:19:03 ◼ ► and then if road test opposite the front door then it gets all your keyboard focus so you're like quicksilver shortcut [TS]
00:19:09 ◼ ► goes to the remote desktop not to the thing over there but it's just it's madness. [TS]
00:19:20 ◼ ► but Cinergy would fix this for you my friend. And it doesn't take them now it would not and would not. [TS]
00:19:27 ◼ ► I mean thirty has downsides as well and it's just another layer of stuff it's the same reason I don't use screen [TS]
00:19:37 ◼ ► but you know it's always something like a screen you like I don't want to take you know control I want you to remap [TS]
00:19:44 ◼ ► and you know how I get the synergy doing weird things with making using a regular computer feel strange things with the [TS]
00:19:51 ◼ ► Command key is just it's not I'm not going to try to. Plus that's not really action but it's a diversion. Like. [TS]
00:20:01 ◼ ► but I should be doing is making for a partisan interviewer not trying to tweak my setup that helps me do the review [TS]
00:20:09 ◼ ► and doing experiments trying to try to figure out how I can accurately write a single sentence I spent like you know [TS]
00:20:15 ◼ ► forty five minutes hour experimenting with a thing to say what can I say about this. [TS]
00:20:20 ◼ ► What is the truth of this thing and then it's like well I wrote one sentence tonight and I spent an hour [TS]
00:20:45 ◼ ► Yeah that's about it really I'm fixing up the bugs the sales are going pretty well still obviously it's down [TS]
00:20:53 ◼ ► but it seems to be leveling off now which is nice because now it's now only able to predict roughly what it will be in [TS]
00:21:03 ◼ ► Have you cranked back on the initial server build out form whatever you want to call it. [TS]
00:21:09 ◼ ► I actually haven't and so far I'm keeping all eight of the well heads and the reason why is so as. [TS]
00:21:17 ◼ ► So before you know I have I have one FI drawing server that hit its entire purpose is to crawl the feeds [TS]
00:21:33 ◼ ► and so what I have what I have going at launch I had these eight web servers up front to help you know take web [TS]
00:21:41 ◼ ► and then very quickly after launch my feed server got overwhelmed with just the queue was backing up because so many [TS]
00:21:48 ◼ ► and I was already crawling a lot of people added a lot more than I expected so I started I ran additional crawling [TS]
00:21:54 ◼ ► processes under nice on the web servers and so in theory what I think this will do and. [TS]
00:22:00 ◼ ► What it is doing so far is all the Web servers I have now burst capacity so you know when a popular show. [TS]
00:22:11 ◼ ► or something I think is like twenty thousand people or something to strive to in Africa. [TS]
00:22:15 ◼ ► when a new episode of the show is published I send twenty thousand Push Notifications within the span of a few seconds [TS]
00:22:21 ◼ ► and any of those devices that are connected to the Internet will immediately try to fetch performance in Qwest [TS]
00:22:29 ◼ ► and so you might have you know twenty thousand devices all performing sinks within that within the first few seconds of [TS]
00:22:35 ◼ ► that request going out and so I need some kind of burst capacity for when that happens. [TS]
00:22:40 ◼ ► So what I'm doing now is I have servers and so I am keeping the additional crawlers running on ice. [TS]
00:22:57 ◼ ► and will you know move the cue for other things will slow down for a minute or two [TS]
00:23:01 ◼ ► and then the rest of the time I have all this additional fee capacity so I think I think this is my original plan was [TS]
00:23:12 ◼ ► and that once everything calmed down I would eliminate you know half of them maybe [TS]
00:23:21 ◼ ► but I think we're going to keep it the way it is because it is in the balance of a lot less wasted capacity [TS]
00:23:28 ◼ ► and we would said in the past that whatever the sum total of the monthly cost for these ten servers is considerably [TS]
00:23:38 ◼ ► Yeah yeah I'd originally said it was like five forty I had to upgrade my backup server [TS]
00:23:45 ◼ ► but still yes a hundred bucks a month for for a lot of liner instances providing a lot of power a lot of computational [TS]
00:23:53 ◼ ► power that I don't think is a bad deal at all. Nice. Anyway that's over Gotta go into a very low. [TS]
00:24:04 ◼ ► but I think I actually got to the biggest ones in this update so I'm still working on a paper. [TS]
00:24:12 ◼ ► So do you feel like you're working just as hard as you were pre-launch and post-launch [TS]
00:24:27 ◼ ► Email I'm still looking over the email I have I did I did hit bottom of the first batch. [TS]
00:24:33 ◼ ► What's interesting is what people are requesting now so I'm still getting about one hundred emails a day [TS]
00:24:44 ◼ ► and I promised in the feedback form that I will read everything but I won't guarantee a response to everything [TS]
00:24:52 ◼ ► and not respond to everything because I can't even reading a hundred emails a day takes takes a long time [TS]
00:24:59 ◼ ► and a lot of them you know don't even need a response I don't even say as much you know. [TS]
00:25:07 ◼ ► But what's interesting is that is that what people are asking for now is different from what people ask for on day one [TS]
00:25:20 ◼ ► and there because there are still some bugs that are affecting a lot of people which I'm very annoyed by [TS]
00:25:26 ◼ ► But like for example Day one had tons of requests for the two because they don't support streaming and video. [TS]
00:25:37 ◼ ► and behavioral preferences people wanted a different way they wanted episode management to be put a vacation option [TS]
00:25:46 ◼ ► or different modes episodes could be in like one of the more calm ones on day on day one which I mentioned before was [TS]
00:25:52 ◼ ► like a lot of people wanted it to be new but not downloaded and a lot of people want deleted. [TS]
00:26:05 ◼ ► So you know people are people requesting these different states things can be in of course all the management of the [TS]
00:26:13 ◼ ► All that was really on day one and what I'm hearing from people now is substantially less of those requests [TS]
00:26:23 ◼ ► and more like you know it would be nice if someday maybe you added this not like I can't use a pod cast at a doesn't [TS]
00:26:34 ◼ ► and I think I mean my my theory on this was pretty obvious really you know I think I think day one everyone tried it [TS]
00:26:42 ◼ ► who was into pod cast that's who who heard about it like there was a big rush of people who tried it [TS]
00:26:47 ◼ ► and you know probably necessarily didn't want to like it maybe on some level because you nobody wants to change their [TS]
00:26:55 ◼ ► And also people who really do find those features like deal killers or you know anything I don't do that [TS]
00:27:01 ◼ ► or that I do differently from what they want to do. That actually is a deal killer for them. [TS]
00:27:04 ◼ ► So all of them I heard from on day one and I stopped hearing from them because they stopped looking at the app. [TS]
00:27:10 ◼ ► So now what I'm hearing from who I'm hearing from other people who are actually using the app for the most part I mean [TS]
00:27:15 ◼ ► you know there are new people discovering it every day but not nearly in the numbers as the first two days. [TS]
00:27:21 ◼ ► So what you're getting now are actually on some level I think are actually more important to pay attention to because [TS]
00:27:29 ◼ ► most of those people who are heard from on day one I'll probably never win them over. [TS]
00:27:38 ◼ ► And there's a lot of people who use the app for whom it could be a little bit better with what might be a small change. [TS]
00:27:50 ◼ ► I build customers and those people are the ones who will spread the app to their friends [TS]
00:28:00 ◼ ► More fanatically happy about your app then to try to address the entire world with it. [TS]
00:28:14 ◼ ► but I don't I don't know why it's coming up again I guess this is all we got to say. [TS]
00:28:17 ◼ ► Wrote about it on his Monday note blog and then lets people link that including river [TS]
00:28:25 ◼ ► Yes we'll talk about it again to I feel like we had this exact same discussion I pulled the Zach same numbers last time [TS]
00:28:30 ◼ ► but I mean you know I don't know I guess I guess we'll talk about it again I don't think it was a very good article [TS]
00:28:42 ◼ ► and cons between our in our intel that are necessarily true or at least partially misinformed [TS]
00:28:49 ◼ ► or not liking the notes file either I guess. Anyway so here are the stats I put in the file. [TS]
00:29:09 ◼ ► One of the reason becomes a very often is that if they did that arm C.P. Use are more powerful than X. [TS]
00:29:15 ◼ ► Eighty six and the second reason is that Apple would be master of its own destiny because Apple really wants to own [TS]
00:29:24 ◼ ► Witness their design of the A seven and their and their you know deep involvement in the manufacturing process [TS]
00:29:30 ◼ ► and of course they do all the software as well to make a last minute applications and lovable [TS]
00:29:34 ◼ ► and originally if you want to go back really far they investigated my understanding is that they investigated for the [TS]
00:29:44 ◼ ► and not do a deal with a carrier with a wireless carrier like is it feasible to do it on a wife I can we be our own [TS]
00:30:03 ◼ ► So bomber for them so anyway this is along the same vein on the tech front though in the power thing every time I think [TS]
00:30:08 ◼ ► about the power thing I think about you know just how far Intel's come in terms of power efficiency so we'll look at [TS]
00:30:17 ◼ ► here I have stats for the current thirteen inch MacBook Air which is kind of my sort of standard bearer for Apple's [TS]
00:30:26 ◼ ► but on the other hand is a full fledged laptop and the performance is actually pretty good. [TS]
00:30:38 ◼ ► when I was doing Mavericks battery testing I found that number can get even bigger if you use it very lightly like you [TS]
00:30:43 ◼ ► really are just doing like light web browsing and you know that my my battery test was very light [TS]
00:30:48 ◼ ► and Mavericks it was like automated basically going to bunch of web pages switching tabs reloading web pages going to a [TS]
00:30:54 ◼ ► text editor typing some random text saving the text document going in I was like that's type of stuff I was doing very [TS]
00:31:02 ◼ ► but they were twelve hours of Apple says the i Pad Air which is my standard bearer for the i O. S. [TS]
00:31:10 ◼ ► In it it's got a pretty darn big battery because the i Pad Air is their biggest i Pad It is a I guess the number wrong [TS]
00:31:19 ◼ ► Thirty two point four one hour battery namecheck thirty two point four what our battery it is a typo [TS]
00:31:28 ◼ ► They said nine hours of use cellular data so if you do the math on that it ends up that the i Pad Air is about forty [TS]
00:31:47 ◼ ► How are they coming up the twelve hour and over the map again what kind of activity they come up with it [TS]
00:31:55 ◼ ► but still they have better wins by like forty percent better wins by twenty five percent of the include cellular data. [TS]
00:32:00 ◼ ► But the i Pad Air The name have it out so whatever. So it's like forty percent better energy efficiency. [TS]
00:32:06 ◼ ► But then you look at you have to have some proxy for OK a twenty percent more energy efficient [TS]
00:32:10 ◼ ► but how fast is the C.P.U. How does the eighty seven C.P.U. Compared to the C.P.U. and C.P.U. [TS]
00:32:15 ◼ ► Benchmarking is a pain I just did the French because that's what everybody does whatever. [TS]
00:32:19 ◼ ► It just this is the ballpark right so the MacBook Air geek bench compared to the i Pad air deep bench the navigator is [TS]
00:32:27 ◼ ► two hundred thirty percent faster in single core and two hundred fifty percent faster multi-core. [TS]
00:32:32 ◼ ► So an exchange for forty percent more energy efficiency it gives up two extra formants or two and a half expert form [TS]
00:32:40 ◼ ► and so that that's a quite a gap to make up so you could say well you know arm processer more energy efficient. [TS]
00:32:57 ◼ ► and intellectual property issues that may prevent them from having this be feasible. Just the C.P.U. Can Apple make. [TS]
00:33:06 ◼ ► and make it two hundred fifty percent faster while maintaining its forty percent energy efficiency advantage right. [TS]
00:33:13 ◼ ► Because you know as you make it as as you make the C.P.U. More performant you're going to lose energy efficiency right. [TS]
00:33:19 ◼ ► It's not like the i Pad Air is forty percent more energy efficient doing the same thing. [TS]
00:33:26 ◼ ► and this doesn't even get into like the relative comparisons of the embedded G P U's and forget about it. [TS]
00:33:31 ◼ ► A squeegee be you and an act of pros and again the mac pro who knows what you would do with that. [TS]
00:33:36 ◼ ► So there are a lot of just unanswered technical performance questions in terms of what would be. [TS]
00:33:44 ◼ ► Putting aside the being master of your own destiny what would be the advantage for Apple to switch to arm. [TS]
00:33:53 ◼ ► That last longer battery wise would you get a mac that performs at least as well as the existing Macs would you get max. [TS]
00:34:00 ◼ ► I'm better. These are all unanswered questions we don't know I was saying of the gap right now. [TS]
00:34:04 ◼ ► It does not make it seem like Apple like it's a gimme for Apple sale Apple could totally make a C.P.U. [TS]
00:34:09 ◼ ► That is exactly as fast as the current MacBook Air is but is more energy efficient. [TS]
00:34:20 ◼ ► And the second aspect of this is evidently whether Broadwell delay is like bridal being delayed into next year which is [TS]
00:34:24 ◼ ► why Apple had to rev its laptop line to say well OK we'll give you more RAM which is nice by the way give you more RAM [TS]
00:34:30 ◼ ► and lower the prices because we're not going to have new laptops until we can get them to see abuse [TS]
00:34:35 ◼ ► and see if Apple you know if Apple made its own ARM chips they would have this problem because they wouldn't be reliant [TS]
00:34:41 ◼ ► on intel and these delays wouldn't affect them because they would be masters of their own destiny. [TS]
00:34:47 ◼ ► I don't much see that because in the in the race to say can we make an ARM chip that is good [TS]
00:34:53 ◼ ► and has the same performance for a while as Intel things if you're going to have any shot at that you have to be using [TS]
00:35:00 ◼ ► the same process size as Intel and the only person who can do the same process as Intel is Intel. [TS]
00:35:14 ◼ ► Chances of it being able to get your arm forty nine amidships out the door before in places like that a second door are [TS]
00:35:20 ◼ ► very slim you have to get our intel to agree to feather in the first place then you have to get them to agree to give [TS]
00:35:24 ◼ ► you prayer and then you have to say that the thing that stopping in government in X. [TS]
00:35:31 ◼ ► and if only you know only Apple is whipping them along so I will see if Apple's master was on Destiny would have [TS]
00:35:36 ◼ ► fourteen nanometre arms to be used for its next generation of macro care that have more performance for watt than the [TS]
00:35:41 ◼ ► Intel ones and just I think was speaking I don't see it now doesn't mean they're not going to do it [TS]
00:35:48 ◼ ► and eventually catch up because that's kind of an apple demo it's like like with the maps thing well we just can't have [TS]
00:35:53 ◼ ► Google Maps anymore and our new maps are going to be worse and they could be worse for a long time possibly forever. [TS]
00:36:00 ◼ ► I'm not saying Apple will never do this but on paper it does not look like a compelling change for me [TS]
00:36:08 ◼ ► Eighty six games and the ability to run Windows and all that and even the rim of the I wonder how much that matters. [TS]
00:36:22 ◼ ► but I bet there's still a lot of people who run like the Windows version of Microsoft Office in virtualization at least [TS]
00:36:30 ◼ ► Yeah that's exactly true and actually I recorded an episode of mac power users last night [TS]
00:36:36 ◼ ► and one of the things we very briefly talked about is what happens if you know Macs go arm in [TS]
00:36:40 ◼ ► or if they were certainly if they weren't Intel and that would be a showstopper for me or in. [TS]
00:36:50 ◼ ► What say they were both brand new you know Broadwell comes out but simultaneously there's an ARM based Mac. [TS]
00:36:56 ◼ ► I would absolutely choose the Intel based mac for work at least because I believe in Windows at work. [TS]
00:37:04 ◼ ► I mean I don't do use boot camp is boot camp even still a thing. Yeah it's still there. [TS]
00:37:09 ◼ ► OK so I do it so I don't use boot camp or use whom are fusion but my point is is that I would I pretty much live in V.M. [TS]
00:37:16 ◼ ► and so for me to have really caused really bad in crummy virtualization would be a showstopper I would have to use one [TS]
00:37:24 ◼ ► of those Dell behemoths if I didn't have an Intel mac and that's just a terrible life and nobody wants to leave. [TS]
00:37:36 ◼ ► Again I would have to come with major gains and I think you know John everything you said is right [TS]
00:37:46 ◼ ► and the cost of having all developers have to recombine you know as you said last time we talk about this [TS]
00:37:52 ◼ ► or as I said at least you know going from Power P.C. To intel they use Rosetta to try to help transition along. [TS]
00:38:00 ◼ ► The old stuff but that also worked primarily because the inputs are for so much faster. [TS]
00:38:07 ◼ ► And here there probably wouldn't be that same performance jump in fact it might even get slower so it would not be an [TS]
00:38:16 ◼ ► easy transition if you possible you know they could do it you know it's a different environment now [TS]
00:38:24 ◼ ► You know they're using Apple's Apple's Xcode toolkit and everything so Apple has a ship a cross compiler [TS]
00:38:31 ◼ ► and make universal Viner's again like they could do it if they wanted to but it would not be a cheap [TS]
00:38:41 ◼ ► And I've been looking at these numbers and thinking about you know John you're writing about the fab capacity issue [TS]
00:38:46 ◼ ► and I don't see it really being worth it to say I think they could actually make a pretty darn high performance ARM [TS]
00:38:53 ◼ ► chip mostly because I like their integration like the fact that they control the compiler they control the language [TS]
00:39:04 ◼ ► but you still are always in the end faced with the problem of who the hell is going to fab the ship [TS]
00:39:07 ◼ ► and if the answer is an Intel using their best process before they do it before at the same time as they do their own [TS]
00:39:12 ◼ ► flagship chips then your answer as well doesn't matter how great your chip is if you have to fab size a generation [TS]
00:39:19 ◼ ► How the hell are you going to compete on price performance with them like it is just a huge advantage to say you're a [TS]
00:39:23 ◼ ► twenty two nanometers and work fourteen it's like you know like the bring of the X. [TS]
00:39:40 ◼ ► and even if you exclude cash which is a huge part of it but even or even if you screw the G.P.U. [TS]
00:39:44 ◼ ► Like the the percentage of transistors you have to spend then I say six is so small that it's not even a factor like [TS]
00:39:50 ◼ ► it's a factor you know in terms of elegance and it's just disgusting to think about those things being there [TS]
00:39:55 ◼ ► and it would be nice if more of them get phased out but at this point it's like I say sixty four is. [TS]
00:40:00 ◼ ► As it grows you can implement the old like sixteen bit instructions in crazy ass crap is never going to call this slow [TS]
00:40:09 ◼ ► It's not the kind of blip you can build a sustainable Frohman's advantage are you know like process [TS]
00:40:15 ◼ ► and manufacturing costs are such a huge part of this and so in DOS to be a huge part in that I don't know the ins [TS]
00:40:23 ◼ ► Was one thing when you've got chipset you've got thunderbolt you've got whatever the current version of P.C.I. [TS]
00:40:28 ◼ ► Express is and all that stuff and a lot of that stuff is tied up with either patterns [TS]
00:40:31 ◼ ► or actual intellectual property that involves Intel so I don't think you can get away from Intel unless you know like [TS]
00:40:38 ◼ ► and like let you do something like that I was devised I was like oh no thunderbolt over here we don't have U.S.P.S. [TS]
00:40:43 ◼ ► Our own little widget it's got her own port on the side of it and we control everything [TS]
00:40:48 ◼ ► but you can't can't quite do that with Macs yet we're also sponsored this week by a new sponsor. [TS]
00:41:00 ◼ ► and that this is interesting so Tom Brewer is a revolutionary coffee system that dispenses espresso coffee cappuccino [TS]
00:41:11 ◼ ► and other drinks on demand via Bluetooth connection with just a tap on your I a lesser Android device copier is [TS]
00:41:19 ◼ ► designed manufactured in Denmark a lot of things that are often come from Denmark they're difficult to pronounce such [TS]
00:41:27 ◼ ► I assume it was one of my tri friends that no one's ever heard of except for you know just been around forever. [TS]
00:41:35 ◼ ► Also a Bang and Olufsen which you probably heard of them at least an Apple stores and everything [TS]
00:41:40 ◼ ► and of course Lego which is singular and plural at the same time it is not it is Lego trademark brand bricks [TS]
00:41:53 ◼ ► Now a top Brewer drinks are customizable and can be saved as favorites. You can have this thing if you if you prefer. [TS]
00:42:02 ◼ ► or over eight point five grams you can save your preference of a favorite and your favorite drink tap away. [TS]
00:42:08 ◼ ► He can save you know whether you like more or less foam in your cap. You know all this stuff. Now it's cool. [TS]
00:42:14 ◼ ► Top Gear You probably saw the circling around like the you know look at these cool gadgets kind of sites about a year [TS]
00:42:18 ◼ ► ago when they first announced and showed it off. It looks just like a big like you know one of the U. [TS]
00:42:35 ◼ ► It is it is the coolest like cleanest most modern looking thing I've seen in a long time. [TS]
00:42:41 ◼ ► It's all you know all the machinery is hidden away and you can see this beautifully designed silver tap [TS]
00:42:54 ◼ ► and commercial settings that includes a bird grinder for the coffee which is made of even the berg grinder is made of [TS]
00:43:01 ◼ ► cast aluminum and it alone is thirteen pounds and is really you know high quality stuff in here. [TS]
00:43:11 ◼ ► and here here's what you do you find one of these things are installed in your home. [TS]
00:43:15 ◼ ► But first if you want to try go find one they have them installed various places around a lot a lot of cities these [TS]
00:43:24 ◼ ► You install their app and then you can order from the app you can walk up the thing order it right from the app [TS]
00:43:32 ◼ ► So I may be the very severe I have a problem with this I don't know but you don't interact with anybody [TS]
00:43:38 ◼ ► or anything like that you just walk up to this thing with the app and it makes your preferred drink [TS]
00:43:44 ◼ ► and you can walk up to any of these things anywhere anywhere that you find one in any city [TS]
00:43:52 ◼ ► So anyway go to topic Brewer USA dot com It is top Brewer USA dot com Check it out it's really. [TS]
00:44:03 ◼ ► All right so the other thing that's been going around the Internet over the last week to week [TS]
00:44:08 ◼ ► and a half maybe two weeks is whether or not anyone can make money in the Iowa SAP store. [TS]
00:44:19 ◼ ► and three months of flying for Marco to field I think the the actual full version of that is it is impossible for [TS]
00:44:29 ◼ ► anyone to make money in the out start besides Marco a face with the name that's as Marco I'd like to rather be able to [TS]
00:44:36 ◼ ► That's true I mean there's there's two problems really that that people face problem number one is getting noticed at [TS]
00:44:45 ◼ ► You know so that's like you know my my reputation an existing audience gives me that kind of for free. [TS]
00:44:53 ◼ ► but in Problem number two affect me as much as much as anybody else which is once you found [TS]
00:45:00 ◼ ► and saturated the number of people who are going to ever buy your app what happens to your sales curve [TS]
00:45:08 ◼ ► and how do you get more people to buy it who are not finding it or who are choosing not to buy it or who aren't even. [TS]
00:45:15 ◼ ► Who are you know looking at the category and choosing one your competitors instead. [TS]
00:45:20 ◼ ► And that's a look at a much harder problem and I don't have any benefits their over anyone else really [TS]
00:45:28 ◼ ► and so you know the the first problem you can you can you can kind of address by doing things like you know like like [TS]
00:45:39 ◼ ► picking a category where there's less competition but there is still a market that's really hard to find though. [TS]
00:45:48 ◼ ► or you know it's a problem that it's very useful to like ten people in the world and you're one of them. [TS]
00:45:53 ◼ ► It's going be hard to sell it and a lot of things are just like you know it's kind of cool [TS]
00:46:00 ◼ ► And if the if it isn't that compelling to pay for even if it's kind of cool it's hard to get a lot of sales there. [TS]
00:46:09 ◼ ► So you know we've seen a lot of these blog posts over the last couple of weeks on the problems in the App Store [TS]
00:46:19 ◼ ► and a lot of Eliphaz share numbers like actual numbers here's what we made which is unusual you know in most places [TS]
00:46:26 ◼ ► talking about your salary is taboo. That's a whole other discussion about whether that should be that way. [TS]
00:46:33 ◼ ► They're actually really can print money episode about that recently that you can find. [TS]
00:46:38 ◼ ► It's interesting though to see because most of these people are revealing is that they're making a lot less money than [TS]
00:46:44 ◼ ► people might have assumed and that a lot less money that then is worth continuing to work on it basically. [TS]
00:46:50 ◼ ► And so you know this is started out by Jared Sinclair and his post about unread which is an R.S.S. [TS]
00:46:57 ◼ ► Reader and it ends up it's made you know that number is like thirty thousand dollars over five time over a year. [TS]
00:47:16 ◼ ► and makes it hard to justify a full time work on it if you know you know if you're a programmer in the United States [TS]
00:47:27 ◼ ► and everything else like it's pretty expensive to live here and if you're if you're making thirty thousand a year [TS]
00:47:34 ◼ ► when you have a skill that you could make easily twice that probably more so than the area that you live in working for [TS]
00:47:44 ◼ ► So I don't know Casey I mean when you think about as a person I mean people get mad [TS]
00:47:49 ◼ ► when I talk about this because they anything I say people people say oh well you can't you this doesn't apply to you [TS]
00:47:55 ◼ ► you can't say that it was work for market like people people are very mad at you when I talk about the so. [TS]
00:48:00 ◼ ► So OK you are more normal than I am and people tend to like you a lot more so what do you think of this. [TS]
00:48:11 ◼ ► and there's been a bunch of things that a friend of the show underscore David Smith has posted both in text form in an [TS]
00:48:28 ◼ ► but he does it by way of diversification whereas you do it by way of really dumping all of your time into one app [TS]
00:48:39 ◼ ► For me I don't think I'm going to ever post this in a blog post or anything but I was looking at fast text numbers [TS]
00:48:46 ◼ ► and in brief the first check I got for from Apple was on the end of September and twenty ten [TS]
00:48:57 ◼ ► and I was unbelievably excited about that because I had actually earned some modicum of money on the App Store. [TS]
00:49:10 ◼ ► but suffice to say it wasn't until sometime during A.T.P.'s run that I finally cracked in to get into profit for a fast [TS]
00:49:23 ◼ ► And if I added things correctly I am one hundred forty three dollars in the black That counts for all the profit I've [TS]
00:49:31 ◼ ► made which is about all the all the money I've made which is about six hundred fifty bucks minus five years in the App [TS]
00:49:37 ◼ ► Store which is about one hundred bucks a pop minus the forty dollars I spent on a pasty express to make the world's [TS]
00:49:51 ◼ ► Tickets or travel or the price he paid for the inferior footless I counted replaced. Well I have not. [TS]
00:50:00 ◼ ► I was my friend Jacob so I actually did not charge me for that icon he did it out of the goodness of his heart because [TS]
00:50:07 ◼ ► he's awesome and I don't know if he's doing contract work anymore but if you want to get I can talk to him anyway [TS]
00:50:17 ◼ ► Of the four years I've been to see I think work paid for three of them if I'm not mistaken. [TS]
00:50:23 ◼ ► So you could argue that that that one year would put me heavily in the red but I consider that slightly ancillary [TS]
00:50:42 ◼ ► Still over five years because fast text last season launched shortly after I was four came out in. [TS]
00:50:52 ◼ ► So in the five or so years that it's been out I've earned one hundred forty three dollars. [TS]
00:50:57 ◼ ► Now I've done nothing to promote it other than occasionally mentioning it here and that's about it. [TS]
00:51:04 ◼ ► And to be honest especially now it's getting a little old getting a little long in the tooth. [TS]
00:51:21 ◼ ► Yes I did work on it briefly two weeks ago and I What was it that you had said can't shoot the top layer. [TS]
00:51:29 ◼ ► Yes that got me halfway there but I'm not quite through yet and because I'm too damn stubborn to use Springs [TS]
00:51:40 ◼ ► But yes over the course of five years having done no real marketing whatsoever I've earned one hundred forty three [TS]
00:51:54 ◼ ► but I certainly wouldn't be leaving my job for one hundred forty three dollars over five years. I mean that's. [TS]
00:52:00 ◼ ► That's like one nice meal. If by now you see mean Pinera bread every half year to a year if you know what I mean. [TS]
00:52:08 ◼ ► So it's it's a hard in in Justin Williams has been talking in his snarky way which I love but he's been talking on [TS]
00:52:24 ◼ ► And that's that's the thing is that you've got to be a business man before woman before your a developer [TS]
00:52:33 ◼ ► and a lot of cases and I think Marco you've done pretty well with that by finding a nice Schmich nice whatever. [TS]
00:52:42 ◼ ► and then finding a Cutty that's not that's not terribly well served up until overcast in the case of overcast finding a [TS]
00:52:50 ◼ ► way to make it something unique and we'll see over time or you'll see over time whether or not that's sustainable. [TS]
00:52:58 ◼ ► But I underscore David Smith by comparison has his hands in a lot of different pots and [TS]
00:53:10 ◼ ► and something mention in the chat a moment ago well yeah you know you say you didn't do any real marketing [TS]
00:53:15 ◼ ► but well you mentioned it on A.T.P. and That's marketing and you know that's a fair point. [TS]
00:53:19 ◼ ► That's an absolutely fair point but OK let's assume that that's a quote unquote real marketing. [TS]
00:53:25 ◼ ► I still have only heard one hundred fifty pucks over five years you know so that's real marketing. [TS]
00:53:32 ◼ ► So some of it is all sponsored by fast Xed the great you know so I don't know it's I long so much I long so much to be [TS]
00:53:43 ◼ ► able to go independent and do my own thing and not work for the man and I love my job I truly do. [TS]
00:53:49 ◼ ► But it would be so neat to be like you or underscore and B be able to to be be my own person if you will [TS]
00:54:05 ◼ ► and do decent work I'm going to maintain that not terribly stressful job and there's a lot to be said for that [TS]
00:54:13 ◼ ► and I think as always the grass is greener on the other side and I you know I have a I have it pretty easy all told. [TS]
00:54:22 ◼ ► So so young and foolish to put the show up every day and do good work and keep my job. [TS]
00:54:36 ◼ ► This is four and did you volunteer voluntarily leave all the previous jobs. Thus far yes. [TS]
00:54:42 ◼ ► So you're a quitter you're going to have what I'm saying is chances are good that you're going to have more jobs in [TS]
00:54:48 ◼ ► your life and if and I think it's a reasonable chance that some of those transitions will happen not by your choice. [TS]
00:54:56 ◼ ► It is certainly possible I tend to try to pick a company that from everything I can tell is stable [TS]
00:55:08 ◼ ► I am certainly not the most important person there but I am not the low hanging fruit if you will. [TS]
00:55:15 ◼ ► But you're right I mean my our the company that I work for it could fold tomorrow and I could be none the wiser. [TS]
00:55:25 ◼ ► but like you know the whole the whole thing is like the illusion of stability versus the non-A lose like that the panic [TS]
00:55:35 ◼ ► but that means it's all on me whereas like well now I'm not doing my own thing it's not on me [TS]
00:55:39 ◼ ► but at least I have security where you really don't have security but it kind of feels like you do. [TS]
00:55:47 ◼ ► Bottom line is do you feel more stressed are you more stressed in situation every situation be regardless of whether [TS]
00:55:54 ◼ ► the situation A and B. Are actually comparable in any way. Like just because you feel safer in a job doesn't mean. [TS]
00:56:00 ◼ ► but feeling safer is like ninety percent of the battle anyway like if you if you you know if you have a personality [TS]
00:56:05 ◼ ► where if you were to go off on your own all you do is stress all the time you know that that wouldn't be a good thing [TS]
00:56:11 ◼ ► for you even if it was exactly comparable risk wise in reality it just matters how you feel. [TS]
00:56:16 ◼ ► But like all this stuff on the Web going around about the App Store viability I have to think that it's motivated by [TS]
00:56:25 ◼ ► like if it's knows there's no point writing about this if there is not if it's on an angle [TS]
00:56:30 ◼ ► and the angle I see a lot is someone who's not me is to blame for my difficulties and not in a bad way as ever [TS]
00:56:40 ◼ ► and I think that was like it was it was just on you you're like well I recall in case you think he's not running post [TS]
00:56:45 ◼ ► complaining about an artist make money at a fast X. Whose fault is that that you know if I say well c'est X. [TS]
00:56:50 ◼ ► A awesome super dooper app has hundreds not has it been updated religiously to keep up with latest techno it has not [TS]
00:56:59 ◼ ► You know it's not like you're searching for like why can I make money out you know wow you know [TS]
00:57:06 ◼ ► and that's why you're not writing a blog post about it whereas other people like JARRETT You know they'd say like I [TS]
00:57:12 ◼ ► It embodies my own ideals I think the interface is great I think it does something useful I really like the way it [TS]
00:57:17 ◼ ► works I worked hard on it it's bug free have kept it updated to use latest technologies [TS]
00:57:22 ◼ ► and then it's like why why aren't I successful and you're not going to turn that on yourself. [TS]
00:57:31 ◼ ► but as I look at all the other apps that are out there mine is least as good as them is not better. [TS]
00:57:35 ◼ ► So you're going to immediately be looking for some reason why you didn't succeed it doesn't have to do with your own [TS]
00:57:41 ◼ ► and in most cases not really your fault like you did do a good job on the things you care about like you did make [TS]
00:57:50 ◼ ► but then you get all the things that Mark was talking about. All right well then whose fault is it. [TS]
00:57:54 ◼ ► Well maybe you wrote an app that has has the potential customer base of ten people they all voted already. [TS]
00:58:00 ◼ ► Right now maybe maybe your case doesn't match other people's tastes like if you have a beautiful bug free nice [TS]
00:58:10 ◼ ► How many people in the world need to count oranges may be just a hobby of yours or Trainspotting [TS]
00:58:17 ◼ ► and that's where the end of the business maybe you could be going to maybe it's already crowded so it's over then [TS]
00:58:22 ◼ ► that's kind of boring too that's where a lot of these things get to is like oh just business is hard or whatever [TS]
00:58:26 ◼ ► but everyone is looking for something more interesting that because just saying this is hard like that post has to come [TS]
00:58:31 ◼ ► after everyone else's post comes to be kind of like the you know let me just say the obvious thing to get us back to [TS]
00:58:37 ◼ ► The previous ones are like what is what is Apple what is the app is the app store environment getting worse is Apple [TS]
00:58:43 ◼ ► not doing things that may used to be easier to make money but now it's not as easy [TS]
00:58:50 ◼ ► and I was there is an angle that because it's like if you want to make an AI with app the App Store is the only game in [TS]
00:58:56 ◼ ► town. Likewise you want to sell more of those jailbreak stories or something which usually people don't want to do. [TS]
00:59:06 ◼ ► I think I picked a reasonable category but the App Store is harder to make money in now than it used to be. [TS]
00:59:13 ◼ ► And whenever I see posts like that I think well yeah like people know about it now like it's not you know getting an [TS]
00:59:20 ◼ ► Early of the of the of the gold rush is over the Gold Rush didn't end because Apple did something bad the Gold Rush [TS]
00:59:25 ◼ ► ended because everyone everyone came to California like been there and here now like the gold [TS]
00:59:33 ◼ ► and they want everyone buys it because nothing for them to buy you know if you were the first read later app then you [TS]
00:59:39 ◼ ► get a lot more customers than if you're the seventeen three they are bright that's just the Gold Rush means everyone [TS]
00:59:51 ◼ ► and for writers complaining I guess developers too like writers developers anybody does anything creative fields in. [TS]
01:00:00 ◼ ► Element they like don't work for free we all heard that before I think I've done this complained about the same thing [TS]
01:00:04 ◼ ► on the talk as we don't work for free because it devalues you know the work so when you work for free [TS]
01:00:10 ◼ ► and I tell somebody that I want to get paid like law to take this guy he works for free [TS]
01:00:13 ◼ ► and don't do that because you're here making the thing that we do less valuable by being willing to do it for free [TS]
01:00:20 ◼ ► and that is one hundred percent true if the market is full of people like I will write your application for free [TS]
01:00:25 ◼ ► or I will write your blog post for free or I will do this logo design for you for free. [TS]
01:00:29 ◼ ► It makes it harder for you to charge money for any of those services because if the guy doing it for free is just as [TS]
01:00:35 ◼ ► good or God forbid better than you you you know it's very difficult to charge money. [TS]
01:00:41 ◼ ► If you're talking to your peers Hey everybody who does whatever everybody who paints paintings everyone who writes [TS]
01:00:48 ◼ ► or don't give your thing away because that makes it harder for all of us to make money and that is true [TS]
01:00:55 ◼ ► but the problem with that is one of the things that you're doing is really fun really. [TS]
01:01:01 ◼ ► What if it's really fun to make apps but it's really fun to do painting sort of logo design is really fun. [TS]
01:01:05 ◼ ► What if you can do it in your spare time like while having a regular job out of college students really like to do it [TS]
01:01:17 ◼ ► and making apps is kind of fun like working for yourself is also fun all these things that make it attractive to people [TS]
01:01:24 ◼ ► and you know it's like that makes it attractive to everybody everybody wants to do that everybody wants to lead the [TS]
01:01:33 ◼ ► and all the people who are able to do that something cool because they don't need to have a job [TS]
01:01:38 ◼ ► or because they're in college or because they're just young and foolish or whatever [TS]
01:01:46 ◼ ► That's like I don't know it's like that's not I don't I don't think you can blame anybody in that the people saying [TS]
01:01:51 ◼ ► that it's harder it is harder but I don't really blame the people doing it for free [TS]
01:02:05 ◼ ► but like I'm making it seem independent of that thing of saying there is no entitlement to be able to make a good [TS]
01:02:14 ◼ ► Right Think of all the people who are in actual real creative fields like you know people who want to be a singer [TS]
01:02:23 ◼ ► You couldn't but I wouldn't be great if I could make six figures a year writing poetry. [TS]
01:02:28 ◼ ► Yes that would be great good luck with that. Right like the more people want to do it the more awesome it seems. [TS]
01:02:36 ◼ ► and writing applications is a much more viable skill in terms of making money than poetry. [TS]
01:02:46 ◼ ► when you feel like writing them is farther towards the poetry end of the spectrum than doing what about Casey [TS]
01:02:52 ◼ ► or I do which is doing something that in a status company needs you to do for money in a business that they've already [TS]
01:03:09 ◼ ► or perhaps an independent product guy do is there any part of you that that desires for that. [TS]
01:03:15 ◼ ► Oh I aspire to be retired now. That's a wonderfully John thirty's of the center of the low. [TS]
01:03:23 ◼ ► I sparred not to have to work I aspired to be independently wealthy all these are reasons why I will never have these [TS]
01:03:28 ◼ ► things but you did ask me what I want to put what I want I want to not have to work [TS]
01:03:35 ◼ ► So except being that working in some capacity is a fact of life at the age in which we all are. [TS]
01:03:45 ◼ ► or do you think you would be you would prefer to be working for the man and have that either perceived [TS]
01:03:53 ◼ ► Ron Sterling whatever else does which as you kind of like you do the thing that causes the least pain. [TS]
01:04:00 ◼ ► I mean essentially So like so for me I would be incredibly stressed out if I was in any of any of these situations [TS]
01:04:07 ◼ ► indie developers are in only men just it just is not compatible with my personality right so the only way. [TS]
01:04:14 ◼ ► Like it's very attractive the only way I could do it is if is if I could say well I don't have to worry about money. [TS]
01:04:20 ◼ ► So like that's what that's the thing of it is like if you just dumped a bucket of money I mean so here you go you never [TS]
01:04:25 ◼ ► had to worry about money and what I would end up doing would look a lot like what an indie developer is doing [TS]
01:04:29 ◼ ► but the only reason to be able to do it is because I would have no pressure to be successful. [TS]
01:04:41 ◼ ► Either you find of the things to stress about not like you know like this is like the remaining I guess I'm probably [TS]
01:04:52 ◼ ► but you know there's always something like in terms of work the only thing I would do the only way I would ever do like [TS]
01:04:58 ◼ ► the indie lifestyle is if I didn't count like of it didn't matter where I succeeded [TS]
01:05:02 ◼ ► or failed so I because I just wouldn't be kind of like that Marco leaves well or I needed him to developers were like [TS]
01:05:09 ◼ ► or even if your livelihood depends on you being successful by by doing something that you want to do with a skill that [TS]
01:05:19 ◼ ► you have there be writing an application or even like writing a novel or running your own website [TS]
01:05:26 ◼ ► Nobody else knows of course like there's the entre entrepreneurial spirit I did not have that because who appears to be [TS]
01:05:34 ◼ ► and so I have chosen a life that avoids that stress by saying someone else worry about that I will develop my skills [TS]
01:05:46 ◼ ► and I don't know what number a job I'm on like six seven something like that like I I don't like that experience either [TS]
01:06:00 ◼ ► This Point in case you are Marco and Marco is Marco because he has been I think you are not willing to do. [TS]
01:06:12 ◼ ► or have forgotten is that I didn't take in the development full time until after it was successful. [TS]
01:06:24 ◼ ► You did answer a Craigslist ad for a job posting that had for a company of one employee which is something that I can't [TS]
01:06:35 ◼ ► but there's no frickin way I would ever do that because at that point all of the stability I'm seeking it's not there [TS]
01:06:48 ◼ ► No that was a concern that was definitely concerned because I you know because of how expensive New York is to live in [TS]
01:06:54 ◼ ► I was concerned that well if this company goes under and I thought getting paid like it takes like one [TS]
01:07:03 ◼ ► but I mean the main reason I did that was not because I was some like you know forward thinking maverick [TS]
01:07:09 ◼ ► or something that was going to only had two offers that were at all even reasonable [TS]
01:07:15 ◼ ► and I really didn't want to be either one like the other one would be miserable and I knew that [TS]
01:07:19 ◼ ► and David made Let me we're going to mak. So that was it like that was that was a factor that into it. [TS]
01:07:26 ◼ ► Right in that all of that makes sense with the Think of it is is that you took what to John [TS]
01:07:31 ◼ ► but what to me what it was a tremendously risky offer even though in a lot of ways it was better it was still riskier [TS]
01:07:40 ◼ ► So risk adverse that I really admire the fact that you took that job offer at David Hill which led to all I would argue [TS]
01:07:51 ◼ ► and I if if I was in the same position I would have gone to whatever the financial services firm whatever it was you [TS]
01:08:02 ◼ ► OK I would have taken a job that I had my first job out of school was like in a five person startup it was like the dot [TS]
01:08:07 ◼ ► com days like one nine hundred ninety seven so that's what you did and if your first job [TS]
01:08:14 ◼ ► and you figure you know like I did take that job it's just that my company didn't turn out to become a lawyer like like [TS]
01:08:21 ◼ ► you know you know I mean like this is like a drug like the thing about Marco saying well I didn't leave my job until I [TS]
01:08:29 ◼ ► But even at that point I would be saying well you know I did this app in my spare time it's popular people like it I'm [TS]
01:08:40 ◼ ► and I would never get to that lead point is I would say you can't quit your job because you know you're making money of [TS]
01:08:47 ◼ ► and you have to have some confidence like this is the thing that I can do that I can sustain this that I'm going to [TS]
01:08:52 ◼ ► have to run a second happen a third app and I had to find ways to make money you know whatever [TS]
01:08:55 ◼ ► and I would never have confidence that I could do them what I would feel like I was doing it if I take time off. [TS]
01:09:09 ◼ ► and I would be afraid that I can't get back into the job training how that's that is not really a rational fear because [TS]
01:09:17 ◼ ► but did really well in between you would be no problem for you finding a job doing like I was contracting around it [TS]
01:09:24 ◼ ► but I mean I was looking at the App Store at the time zone one twenty seven there was no answer and then like that [TS]
01:09:36 ◼ ► and lucrative the truly you know sort of person who is afraid about his financial security like I am [TS]
01:09:46 ◼ ► but you can't quit your job because what you can do next year or the year after that for ten years now [TS]
01:09:55 ◼ ► or do you think this is something that might go well for a couple years and you have to get a real job again and. [TS]
01:10:00 ◼ ► When if you had to get a real job again anyway wanted to keep a real job you have now because it'll be harder to get. [TS]
01:10:04 ◼ ► You know that's the that's the that's the kind of little voice in the back of my head that's preventing me from ever [TS]
01:10:13 ◼ ► but you know the trick there really is quit you know that the flaw in that thinking is in assuming that jobs are stable [TS]
01:10:21 ◼ ► and the reality is like they're they're not at all like Yeah I've made the same point before [TS]
01:10:27 ◼ ► and I'm just saying like people do essentially what makes them feel comfortable within the bounds of their values [TS]
01:10:33 ◼ ► or whatever and within the bounds of my values having a regular salaried job makes the rest of my life less stressful. [TS]
01:10:41 ◼ ► As you get closer to retirement maybe that changes just like well you know maybe I go independent now because it's not [TS]
01:10:46 ◼ ► like I have twenty years of career ahead of me anyway so if I end up doing something outside of my job [TS]
01:10:52 ◼ ► and do that because after a few years then I'm actually really I'm going to retire with all the money I saved from my [TS]
01:10:57 ◼ ► salary job during those years anyway so I think all these in developers talking to each other on these blogs [TS]
01:11:03 ◼ ► and amongst each other is just kind of a way of each person coming to terms with their own sort of values like it takes [TS]
01:11:16 ◼ ► and mindset to keep at it like underscore definitely has the mindset he has the mindset to jump into it [TS]
01:11:28 ◼ ► and you do Margot for those that you know like you may like set one aspect more than another [TS]
01:11:33 ◼ ► but you realize there is a spectrum of things that you have to do with the business side the marketing side choosing [TS]
01:11:37 ◼ ► what you're going to do the technical side and you have your favorites and I'll be like all that [TS]
01:11:41 ◼ ► but you realize it's sort of a you know it's sort of like a full stack web developer you have to be forced out of [TS]
01:11:47 ◼ ► and you have to be able to tolerate the lifestyle that comes that obviously success makes it more tolerable [TS]
01:12:00 ◼ ► A problem of the gold rush is you can jump into it just being into like the one aspect of it [TS]
01:12:05 ◼ ► and it's one of the only three of its kind in the App Store and I'm making money for three years [TS]
01:12:10 ◼ ► and then all the sudden all these competitors come in it becomes a more competitive market space [TS]
01:12:13 ◼ ► and you're like well I really don't like doing any of the parts except for the cool part where you write the app [TS]
01:12:18 ◼ ► and if I don't do those things I can't really compete and store you've changed man cycle there. [TS]
01:12:25 ◼ ► Maybe you just weren't cut out for that just like the environment changed and your the things that you like to do [TS]
01:12:32 ◼ ► and don't like to do no longer make so they are no longer fit for success in this environment right [TS]
01:12:38 ◼ ► and so as the environment changes the things that it's like for success change as well [TS]
01:12:42 ◼ ► and I don't like we all have complaints about the App Store when Apple does know they're all the German complaints [TS]
01:12:47 ◼ ► but most of this sort of talking about the App Store I think has to do with people coming to terms with their own [TS]
01:12:56 ◼ ► and then because some people like well I had to stop being independent I had a job [TS]
01:13:05 ◼ ► but like Does your spouse work during that time are you still living with the parents. [TS]
01:13:09 ◼ ► Are you independently wealthy in sort of the matter what happens here anyway because you have a trust fund like you [TS]
01:13:15 ◼ ► never know what they're actually do you live in Kansas where your rent is really low [TS]
01:13:18 ◼ ► or like you never know what the actual situation is like how do you live how do you live on that little money are you [TS]
01:13:23 ◼ ► going to stick it out you're not going to those are more like personal decisions that have to do with your current [TS]
01:13:35 ◼ ► The tiny sliver of the discussion is are there things that Apple is doing or not doing that make it better [TS]
01:13:45 ◼ ► and I think the I think the takeaway from this is like not so much what is Apple doing to the App Store that makes it a [TS]
01:13:52 ◼ ► more hostile or friendly environment for developers but what kind of people are they selecting for [TS]
01:14:00 ◼ ► That's why I think for me that's bad because I'm awesome which is good you should think that. [TS]
01:14:09 ◼ ► When Apple design awards but not as much as you might think like we just need enough to have Apple design awards [TS]
01:14:15 ◼ ► but in reality we're also kind of OK with being in the store even though you've never been to an Apple design award [TS]
01:14:23 ◼ ► And so like what the kind of store that we wish it was all filled with beautiful handcrafted art has no applications [TS]
01:14:41 ◼ ► and even in things like talk about which are great applications that's obviously that's like a full fledged business [TS]
01:14:48 ◼ ► Even if I may have started that way and made maybe even need Angry Birds which again started to people [TS]
01:14:53 ◼ ► So but I think it was an interesting discussion I enjoyed spectating it from the sidelines [TS]
01:14:59 ◼ ► but I don't think there's any one clear like Mission or like sign we can all hold over ahead to say do X. [TS]
01:15:11 ◼ ► Our final sponsor this week is fracture once again fracture is a company that prints photos directly on glass. [TS]
01:15:18 ◼ ► It's really nice I have a bunch of factors are in my office fractures it's hard to describe the literal It sounds like [TS]
01:15:25 ◼ ► they print a photo on the back of a very thin piece of glass that they don't hear to like a then they have also [TS]
01:15:38 ◼ ► and everything it's a really really nice piece because you don't need a frame for these things. [TS]
01:15:43 ◼ ► They're like it's a finished product you hang on the wall you put on your desk there's your photo [TS]
01:15:48 ◼ ► and it's really affordable in my opinion a lot I use them for so I have I have a couple of big [TS]
01:15:55 ◼ ► when they remind us for pictures that I printed actual photos and then up on my wall I have this room. [TS]
01:16:00 ◼ ► Oh of app icon fracture prints and so they have they have the small square size it's something like five by five [TS]
01:16:11 ◼ ► and so I have my app icons of the apps I've worked on before all printed on those so there's a row of three of them now [TS]
01:16:20 ◼ ► Anyway it's a great way to have like a visual representation like a tangible trophy of the apps you've done are [TS]
01:16:26 ◼ ► and you can put Web site icons up there pod cast artwork pretty much anything square rectangular you can put on these [TS]
01:16:33 ◼ ► things. The print quality is fantastic I'm very happy with it the photos look good. The icon artwork looks good. [TS]
01:16:41 ◼ ► Prices are just twelve dollars for that for the small square size which is five by five this year. [TS]
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01:16:52 ◼ ► langar screw they even give you that like it's a fantastic service they been around for a while I have used them for a [TS]
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01:17:35 ◼ ► Marco free the first twenty five people to use coupon code Marco free will get a free small square size which is how [TS]
01:17:44 ◼ ► So go to fracture Me dot com to make or use code Marco for even one of the first twenty five people to do it. [TS]
01:18:00 ◼ ► As Really they sponsor a show a lot even before they sponsored I use them myself and [TS]
01:18:08 ◼ ► and I have to pay full price I still couldn't door prints in them because that they're that good. [TS]
01:18:16 ◼ ► and good color directly on glass fracture Me dot com So we should also point out with regard to people opening a kimono [TS]
01:18:32 ◼ ► or whatever anyway the point is somebody has each Chad I don't know who exactly that is [TS]
01:18:39 ◼ ► but Jesse Chad put put up a post which will put in the show notes about what it's like for game developers because the [TS]
01:18:51 ◼ ► and as it turns out this person who has a day job at Twitter which allows him I'm assuming it's a him allows him to [TS]
01:19:00 ◼ ► make these things in his spare time and not have to worry about making a living off of it. [TS]
01:19:08 ◼ ► I've not played any of them but but nevertheless he wrote a few games and for three games [TS]
01:19:18 ◼ ► He basically ended up a little bit in the red because of the marketing he paid for in order to try to make some money [TS]
01:19:27 ◼ ► on these games. So even for game developers all is not rosy in the App Store anymore. [TS]
01:19:33 ◼ ► Well you know even four because what's more fun than writing a cool i OS application where I think I was like a [TS]
01:19:41 ◼ ► reasonable yardstick to say how much fun is it to do this thing and then how many people can do it at all. [TS]
01:19:48 ◼ ► All that all that has a good a good a good number in the how many people can do it at all because only certain people [TS]
01:19:54 ◼ ► have the desire or talent to learn all the crap you have to learn to be a programmer right. [TS]
01:20:00 ◼ ► Just aren't into it like that's great that's good for us right it helps us make more money because most people don't [TS]
01:20:04 ◼ ► want to learn this crap. But game development of all the kinds of of all the kind of programs you're going to write. [TS]
01:20:11 ◼ ► Writing a game like that if you talk to any programmer a lot of our first program experiences I wanted to write a game [TS]
01:20:16 ◼ ► because people who like the program maybe also like puter games like Ike I would like to write one of those [TS]
01:20:21 ◼ ► and even you know end up as a game programmer how many of us I know certainly my first programs I ever wrote for game [TS]
01:20:30 ◼ ► and it's not looking good for what are my chances of making a lot of money doing it. [TS]
01:20:35 ◼ ► In fact it starts to become more like what are my chances of like making a hit movie or a bestselling novel. [TS]
01:20:41 ◼ ► Games are kind of like that it is a creative field you do need all sorts of skills you don't have a new technical field [TS]
01:20:46 ◼ ► and you need to build on top of that we're just like oh now it's really hard to find this one [TS]
01:20:52 ◼ ► and also it's a kind of a hit driven culture where you you have to have the right game at the right time [TS]
01:20:57 ◼ ► and boy that's tough I would not be surprised to see that it is much harder to make a living selling games [TS]
01:21:04 ◼ ► and the App Store than it is selling a To Do List application or a pocket application or anything else. [TS]
01:21:09 ◼ ► Yes games are a tough market because there are there is infinite competition it's just there's there's there are so [TS]
01:21:16 ◼ ► many games and games are also competing for attention with other things that you do to kill some time sometimes [TS]
01:21:24 ◼ ► and have some fun sometimes that includes things like social networking and movies and music [TS]
01:21:30 ◼ ► and oh no innocent music upset me anymore but you know other people you know that watch movies [TS]
01:21:35 ◼ ► and you know browse Twitter and Facebook and post stuff and like all of that is competing for time [TS]
01:21:43 ◼ ► and so the end you know games have these immense price pressures of small side plus they have the problem of like you [TS]
01:21:52 ◼ ► Reader you can ship a one point oh that is very good it didn't take very long to make [TS]
01:22:01 ◼ ► Not most of the time you know usually with a game you pretty much have to do all of that up front before you know [TS]
01:22:08 ◼ ► and so it's just a really tough market of us to license I P And then you can do episodic content because you have a [TS]
01:22:15 ◼ ► You know like it's just much more like games are almost nothing like the application market almost everything like the [TS]
01:22:21 ◼ ► market for all their entertainment whether it be television shows or movies or music or anything like that. [TS]
01:22:29 ◼ ► and there's all sorts of details that you have to know that's just the kind of like adds a degree of difficulty to what [TS]
01:22:34 ◼ ► Can you make a good game can you even think of a good game that's fun and then can you implement that well [TS]
01:22:43 ◼ ► and extremely crowded market a way that people even see it really hard to do because it's like there's no utility value [TS]
01:22:50 ◼ ► like a podcast Apple like this helps me do a thing I like to do. It's like they're insane. [TS]
01:22:55 ◼ ► Well I was like a punk that helps you sort of play do something you want to do which is listen to podcasts. [TS]
01:23:06 ◼ ► but the games are just like the thing you do that's fun it's like podcasts are the things you do that's fun [TS]
01:23:12 ◼ ► and games do have a few advantages over other app types you know one of them being for example that they don't really [TS]
01:23:21 ◼ ► compete directly as much as you might think in the way that like you know people usually only use like one R.S.S. [TS]
01:23:33 ◼ ► Games are consumables aren't exactly like games like you download you play it for a little while [TS]
01:23:38 ◼ ► and you move on you buy more games and so it's not like it's easier for multiple games to reach the same customer. [TS]
01:23:45 ◼ ► Whereas if you're in a category of competing similar apps chances are most people are going to pick one of those. [TS]
01:23:51 ◼ ► I like e-mail apps like people aren't switching to small group of nerds even looking for alternate apps most people [TS]
01:23:56 ◼ ► have a name a lot they're going to stick with it or whatever. But game games Arkansas. [TS]
01:24:00 ◼ ► That's actually a better fit for the App Store in that respect I guess just like what I do for for upgrade [TS]
01:24:04 ◼ ► but you don't just make another game or you make game version two and you know make it a sequel [TS]
01:24:09 ◼ ► and it's a separate app because everyone like no one has a problem with that. Well somebody does but you know. [TS]
01:24:19 ◼ ► and making a good game is really hard because it's you know just not I think oh it's not really U.I. [TS]
01:24:24 ◼ ► but it is really hard to make good games I think though to end this on a positive note. [TS]
01:24:31 ◼ ► You know when when the post first came out like two weeks ago whenever whenever Jared started it [TS]
01:24:37 ◼ ► when these first came out it looked pretty grim for the first few days in the last few days I've seen a lot of posts [TS]
01:24:47 ◼ ► and they're inspirational in a way you know their their motivational least wear it you can make this work [TS]
01:25:01 ◼ ► and have reasonable expectations on how much you're going to make and you know base your decisions on that. [TS]
01:25:10 ◼ ► and John you were saying earlier like a lot of people won't be out of Alberta therefore there are a lot of developers [TS]
01:25:14 ◼ ► and a lot of people doing it for very little money because a lot of people do it on the side. [TS]
01:25:21 ◼ ► Casey your site active Elop or John you would be if you could write apps in perl this start like [TS]
01:25:28 ◼ ► and that's a lot of people never take a full time that's what they always they always do part time side project. [TS]
01:25:35 ◼ ► Mostly a hobby that my bringing a little a little money here and there and everything wrong with that. [TS]
01:25:45 ◼ ► Don't quit your job and have this romantic notion of say going to coffee shop and running apps all day [TS]
01:25:52 ◼ ► and if you take longer than that before you reach that point like in the past year [TS]
01:25:57 ◼ ► but I've been working on overcast it really. Has it been full time I've had this show and I've had my blog. [TS]
01:26:08 ◼ ► and so I had I didn't have zero income for the last year I had income from those two things I don't think I would have [TS]
01:26:32 ◼ ► and six right like I had some time ago in two thousand and six and I was extremely happy. [TS]
01:26:41 ◼ ► and Google had like a minimum where they would even send you a check until you had a lease of the of the hundred bucks. [TS]
01:26:48 ◼ ► and I only hit that twice in the entire time I ran ad so I made a total of like two hundred bucks maybe in like five [TS]
01:26:59 ◼ ► and I was working on that frequently I was writing like probably once a week at least. [TS]
01:27:04 ◼ ► The problem is like the amount of effort you put into something does not correlate directly to how much other people [TS]
01:27:13 ◼ ► and so you have to have reasonable expectations of you know no matter how much effort you put into an app of type X. [TS]
01:27:23 ◼ ► You're probably not going to earn more then you know a few thousand bucks in the best case scenario rather than bemoan [TS]
01:27:31 ◼ ► that and complain and say it's Apple's fathers you know there are things Apple can do to improve [TS]
01:27:38 ◼ ► I think if you look at like what something like underscore David Smith is doing he makes many apps. [TS]
01:27:50 ◼ ► and they aren't all still in existence in the store but he like created something like a couple hundred apps [TS]
01:27:56 ◼ ► and you know he sees what works he doesn't put a ton of time into Version want to see. [TS]
01:28:02 ◼ ► and in the ones that work he puts the time in that that they earn basically from their sales like proportionally like [TS]
01:28:08 ◼ ► if something sells well I'll give it the attention it you know more attention to succeed more. [TS]
01:28:12 ◼ ► And if something doesn't sell that well he's going to you know he just continues it and moves on. [TS]
01:28:17 ◼ ► That's a really smart approach it's a very pragmatic approach to very effective approach [TS]
01:28:25 ◼ ► I saw another post from a guy who said Often I'll turn it on in the shadows I'm sorry I don't member of the names [TS]
01:28:31 ◼ ► offhand but I'm sort of a post from a guy who said like he develops apps on the side as well as most of his income [TS]
01:28:38 ◼ ► but he lives a really inexpensive lifestyle and he can like go skiing with his family and be present for his kids [TS]
01:28:43 ◼ ► and he just you know lower expectations and lowers his expenses and that's and he can do what he wants. That's great. [TS]
01:28:51 ◼ ► Like if you go into it with realistic Titian's you can succeed but you have to you have to know what the market is [TS]
01:29:02 ◼ ► and I saw also a Justin Williams had a post saying that he doesn't think you could spend more than one hundred days [TS]
01:29:07 ◼ ► building version one point oh because that way you know you get it out there quickly [TS]
01:29:14 ◼ ► Then you can know that you can choose how much you invest in it in the future. That again great advice. [TS]
01:29:21 ◼ ► I know I just violated all this with overcast but you know keep in mind I was like that was not full time work. [TS]
01:29:34 ◼ ► and then adapting to the conditions that actually happen once you put it out there. [TS]
01:29:38 ◼ ► There was also a man with I forget the name what's what's the guy who wrote the four part experiment who had an app [TS]
01:29:43 ◼ ► and he made a friend I made a purchase an app store experiment Stuart Hall. All right now I know. [TS]
01:29:48 ◼ ► OK so it's Stuart Hall and when the show notes it's called an avatar experiment there's like five or so parts [TS]
01:29:55 ◼ ► and it's really good. It's a really good read so he started out he made he made an app called. Seven minute workout. [TS]
01:30:03 ◼ ► But whether there is a market for it but it's a relatively simple app and he started out with it being a pain app [TS]
01:30:10 ◼ ► and then it went in and purchased a free app and he's trying all these additional things [TS]
01:30:15 ◼ ► and he's showing the results he's showing all the actual numbers the whole time of like you know here's like every [TS]
01:30:19 ◼ ► setting like every six months or so he posts a new thing using here that I've done the last six months. [TS]
01:30:24 ◼ ► It is had and everything this is the way to do the app store you need you take an approach like this [TS]
01:30:30 ◼ ► when a person underscore David Smith's where he makes a lot of small apps first then decide what to work on you know [TS]
01:30:39 ◼ ► I think this blog discussion as it spread out from our circle we start to get into things that are different because in [TS]
01:30:44 ◼ ► our circle this is the people who want to sort of live the life where you want to make an application that you think is [TS]
01:30:49 ◼ ► cool that does something you're interested in and you want to make it the way you want to make it [TS]
01:30:54 ◼ ► and then you hope people pay for that and that is kind of the central core of our little circle of people. Right right. [TS]
01:31:02 ◼ ► and I think underscores at the fringes of our circle because he also has kind of the same values of us [TS]
01:31:05 ◼ ► but a lot of the people closer into this central part of the Indian life that would say yeah [TS]
01:31:11 ◼ ► but I want to make one hundred apps because I probably wouldn't be into a lot of those apps or whatever [TS]
01:31:16 ◼ ► and like there's a person Stewart already forgot his name Stewart one of the things that they're into is the the the [TS]
01:31:25 ◼ ► business part of it the game part of figuring out what do I do to my business to be like I'm turning dials here some of [TS]
01:31:31 ◼ ► those dollars have to do with writing COBRA the dials have to do with things like pricing or what job should I make [TS]
01:31:38 ◼ ► and as you go farther rather than sort of you find some guy was making like an I.R.S. [TS]
01:31:42 ◼ ► Application that helps the reception desk at a dental office and he's making a living doing that [TS]
01:31:51 ◼ ► but I don't want to make a dental app it's not interesting to me at the cost of me about as fun anymore you know if you [TS]
01:32:00 ◼ ► When I want I want to do an awesome job and I want to get paid like Yeah everybody wants that [TS]
01:32:04 ◼ ► and if you're if your skills and interests and what you do happens to coincide with a way to make money that's great [TS]
01:32:09 ◼ ► but as you spread out people have different interests maybe someone is super into making you know applications for a [TS]
01:32:19 ◼ ► or maybe he's just like well I'll do this because this makes money like it's the desire [TS]
01:32:24 ◼ ► or the center of the thing is like this sort of selfishness i or to just be happy doing what you want to do [TS]
01:32:30 ◼ ► and as you tell people actually you have to be farther away from the thing you're like actually you have to be more [TS]
01:32:34 ◼ ► like underscore because as I put those not fundamental it's obviously fun Berners course he's doing it right he's [TS]
01:32:39 ◼ ► actually interested in that he said but it's not fun for me what I want to make is that whatever app [TS]
01:32:42 ◼ ► and I want to make games that's all I want to make and it's like well you know good luck Mike. [TS]
01:32:48 ◼ ► It's not everyone can do exactly what they want to do some people are willing to get off of like America three seven [TS]
01:32:55 ◼ ► record score on the show is that like would you prefer just make one beautiful application that you really into [TS]
01:33:00 ◼ ► or do you actually like this part of it where you try to make lots of like is that actually interesting to you [TS]
01:33:04 ◼ ► and I think like it he's always blogging about an area it seems like that aspect of it is interesting to him [TS]
01:33:08 ◼ ► and just he's lucky in that that interest him and he's good at it and it matches with the skill set [TS]
01:33:16 ◼ ► and all these people who are having small success they would do what they want to do [TS]
01:33:19 ◼ ► when they were doing it the best they could to just turns out that that is not a formula for making money at this [TS]
01:33:26 ◼ ► particular time and there are many things they can do to change their behavior to make more money [TS]
01:33:30 ◼ ► but the question for them is do those changes make me less happy and is it worth it for me [TS]
01:33:36 ◼ ► or is there something else I could do that's radically different like say get it do I US contracting [TS]
01:33:45 ◼ ► and continue to do this on the side that would give me an overall happier life again it's back to like you know [TS]
01:33:52 ◼ ► and picking an arbitrary goal like I want to be successful in the developer if that's not actually going to make you [TS]
01:33:59 ◼ ► happy because. What it takes to be an individual or you should do something else you know. [TS]
01:34:04 ◼ ► So in summary despite what we thought the forecast isn't as overcast as we initially believed. [TS]
01:34:17 ◼ ► Thanks a lot to our three sponsors this week need top Brewer and fracture and we will see you next week. [TS]
01:34:33 ◼ ► It was accidental accidental just because it was that it was accidental. Thank you for today. [TS]
01:35:04 ◼ ► and that it's not a long time workshopping that while we're talking while NOT a while since I've had an extremely [TS]
01:35:33 ◼ ► cheesy joked in the show it's been like two weeks. How is your show about doing is it up. [TS]
01:35:40 ◼ ► Yeah actually somebody whose name I don't have in front of me. No not the Robbie Mick Kenny McKinney I don't know. [TS]
01:35:49 ◼ ► Made a really good poll request which I have a couple of minor quibbles with so I didn't. [TS]
01:36:00 ◼ ► I'm assuming this is a he made upon request so it will periodically back itself up to paste been well which I thought [TS]
01:36:10 ◼ ► It's complicated not the solution hits like Goldberg machine the persistence every every three seconds it prints out a [TS]
01:36:18 ◼ ► little piece of paper then that's like a bird in the birds fly hands are there and under a lot of data. [TS]
01:36:30 ◼ ► Anyway ten foot pole named I.B.M. Don't like it it was like two seconds of the show. I spy to be retired. [TS]
01:36:48 ◼ ► Oh I absolutely I aspire to not like full fledge like John Roderick I have to be a retired CIA director. [TS]
01:37:05 ◼ ► but it's not not working retired means you no longer have your job you would still do the things that you like doing [TS]
01:37:11 ◼ ► it's just that you don't and you're not doing them because someone is telling you to and that's your life. [TS]
01:37:17 ◼ ► Kind of a blurry line though like like I said if I thought I was retired my life would look a lot more like Markos like [TS]
01:37:22 ◼ ► I would still probably do tech related things it's just that I'm not doing them to get someone is telling me to [TS]
01:37:27 ◼ ► or because I want to pay me to understand them because it's what I feel like doing well as an example if I was quote [TS]
01:37:32 ◼ ► unquote retired I would absolutely still write for my blog that not that many people read. [TS]
01:37:38 ◼ ► I would still do the show because those are the things that I ninety nine percent of the time enjoy doing. [TS]
01:37:44 ◼ ► I told you earlier I really like my job but I don't enjoy my job ninety nine percent of the time. [TS]
01:37:51 ◼ ► Kind of in the parking lot sometime exactly as a title of mine that I was going to petition for [TS]
01:37:56 ◼ ► but I think the other one is better with full stack business person. I think John said but I spire to be retired. [TS]
01:38:06 ◼ ► and I like four states as a person better than that I think it's more at the heart of the river discussing about like [TS]
01:38:17 ◼ ► I mean in that respect I guess like when that's not the part of Mark I like to feel like working. [TS]
01:38:21 ◼ ► Like he enjoys I'm sure you enjoy the develop part way more of the other parts right [TS]
01:38:25 ◼ ► but you got to do the other parts you know like that's your that's your version of that's your boss basically you know [TS]
01:38:45 ◼ ► but the thing is you know being retired is like well what are depending on a hobby that you pick. [TS]
01:38:50 ◼ ► There's probably some aspect of that too like for example say I'm retired I would probably still like to write things [TS]
01:38:58 ◼ ► and there's aspects of the writing process that I don't like to. But overall it's still worth it. [TS]
01:39:06 ◼ ► and I would still feel like I'm retired I don't have a boss telling you what to do [TS]
01:39:09 ◼ ► but I'm still doing activities that have aspects of it that feel like drudgery because the overall I like this. [TS]
01:39:29 ◼ ► but it's all the fun part life's all development you're not leisure you know like out there you know trying to [TS]
01:39:36 ◼ ► or filling out paperwork for taxes in New York state like no no no no no nothing like that. [TS]
01:39:44 ◼ ► and talk about this aspect of the independent lifestyle like I think I dislike the business part of it even more than [TS]
01:39:50 ◼ ► Marco does which is saying something I think well it doesn't. Honestly it isn't that much work. [TS]
01:39:55 ◼ ► Well as you've done and you get used to it it's kind of becomes more a team but I personally once you cross the point. [TS]
01:40:00 ◼ ► Where you're you're finally willing to hire an accountant. It makes things so much easier for not that much money. [TS]
01:40:13 ◼ ► Like that process of learning that I would hate like you've already done it you've learned it you set it up you like [TS]
01:40:18 ◼ ► but there was that was work to do that maybe you enjoyed it more than more than than you've let on [TS]
01:40:22 ◼ ► but I am just not want to like things with no interest in that and don't want to deal with it don't want to learn [TS]
01:40:29 ◼ ► Well but you know there's also there's there's like entire entire types of things that you have to deal with [TS]
01:40:37 ◼ ► Things like commuting getting you know finding the business dealing with the office and how things are done [TS]
01:40:43 ◼ ► and how to file for be kidding if you had a fire on a train for those by going to school over your school going to [TS]
01:40:49 ◼ ► college trains you on how to commute how to live on your own how to deal with bureaucracy how to follow rules how to [TS]
01:40:54 ◼ ► show places on time all the things the part of the working life school essentially trains you for anyway see it's like [TS]
01:41:00 ◼ ► and chemical are a good job already know how to do this are not a commute I know I do use public transportation [TS]
01:41:12 ◼ ► but all this business of being an entrepreneur is likely nothing prepares you for like well depending what your major [TS]
01:41:20 ◼ ► and dealing with like you know all the incorporation in tax goes like the part that you have to deal with having like [TS]
01:41:33 ◼ ► but you hate that so much you're just never going to do it right because I like I did briefly have a full time employee [TS]
01:41:42 ◼ ► Even though like awful just not like I got an envelope from paychecks every two weeks because I was paying them like [TS]
01:41:50 ◼ ► and even that like stressed me out because I didn't I didn't understand it fully and that that that bothered me [TS]
01:42:02 ◼ ► or a hundred people that's just you know I'm not I'm not saying that that running a company with employees is easier [TS]
01:42:08 ◼ ► than going work for somebody but working for yourself as a sort of pride or or like a one person L.L.C. [TS]
01:42:15 ◼ ► and I would say it's it's simpler than most people who haven't done it probably think especially please for the love of [TS]
01:42:22 ◼ ► God hire an accountant. As long as you have an accountant and have a lawyer do the D.L.C. [TS]
01:42:27 ◼ ► Papers you know you'll be out of there for less than two thousand bucks probably for everything to be set up. [TS]
01:42:43 ◼ ► For most businesses that we would start you know we're lucky we're not going to try to make stuff we don't need to hire [TS]
01:42:49 ◼ ► and have like you know malpractice liability kind of insurance is like you know we're not going to make a profit [TS]
01:42:57 ◼ ► and then we get sued over it like we're not going to make We're not trying to sell somebody something like some [TS]
01:43:10 ◼ ► or is it to be a life saving interior to get business loans at the end of every you know for money [TS]
01:43:15 ◼ ► Yeah exactly I mean the kind of business is we start are are very very easy to start [TS]
01:43:21 ◼ ► and run by comparison I mean you get that so that's why it's like how how fun is it. [TS]
01:43:29 ◼ ► Yeah and you do it in your spare time and do a lot of people think it's really cool. [TS]
01:43:36 ◼ ► But you cannot set in your spare time what you hold on a regular job very easily like physical businesses starting a [TS]
01:43:42 ◼ ► or starting a restaurant stuff like that are much worse which is why you know it's so many people writing apps. [TS]
01:43:54 ◼ ► and you have an app in the store that like it takes so little right Casey to have. [TS]
01:44:07 ◼ ► but if I were to write fast text again today in fact I have considered rewriting it and swear maybe the fast [TS]
01:44:14 ◼ ► but maybe the fastest patter with you and I I I say compatible or it has to start over. [TS]
01:44:19 ◼ ► Honestly that often is the answer to whenever Apple changes stuff dramatically like I was it dramatically changes all [TS]
01:44:29 ◼ ► and starting over with a brand new app is definitely easier in some cases especially if the app is relatively simple [TS]
01:44:38 ◼ ► like fast text is it's definitely easier just to try to like carry forward this I less four codebase for five years. [TS]
01:44:47 ◼ ► Yeah you're absolutely right on a very random note John I'm a little disappointed in you because I eat fast food [TS]
01:44:58 ◼ ► I thought you posted a picture of something I didn't know what that was only if I don't write [TS]
01:45:05 ◼ ► and not recognize that I mean to look like you know the typical garden like hot dog buns with grease sprayed on the [TS]
01:45:20 ◼ ► and like old like you know like a place a place on campus that you were into I'm like whatever like maybe it's I don't [TS]
01:45:26 ◼ ► know I just know a time for everything anyway so yes you're right there is certainly no Italians in the entire [TS]
01:45:35 ◼ ► and certainly know the right of refugees there's always this fast food italian that is not a joke it is like a fast [TS]
01:45:46 ◼ ► And when you're in facilities and you're dining in you get unlimited What do you call them grease sprayed hot dog buns. [TS]
01:46:00 ◼ ► In the town next to where Virginia Tech is and I used to love going there and I haven't been to one in years [TS]
01:46:10 ◼ ► and I thought you know I think there's a facility somewhere in Virginia Beach and sure enough we looked [TS]
01:46:17 ◼ ► and there was one and I begged Aaron. Would it be OK if we stopped and she said absolutely. And it was delicious. [TS]
01:46:24 ◼ ► I'm looking through his menu here and I'm betting all of this is microwave probably way it looks. [TS]
01:46:29 ◼ ► Everything I found so far could be easily microwave Here's a so we're going time restaurant on my B.S. [TS]
01:46:35 ◼ ► Jobs in high school and I learned very quickly that you shouldn't order things like was on your interest [TS]
01:46:42 ◼ ► or I had that was you you know you can't you know going to make somebody a single serving. [TS]
01:46:47 ◼ ► Cuba's on you know when the order it that doesn't make sense it's impractical it's probably impossible [TS]
01:46:52 ◼ ► but I think the kind of time I was on is made ahead of time and put in the fridge or frozen [TS]
01:47:00 ◼ ► and you know looking at these kind of entrees they have here I'm looking at all the same like this probably all work [TS]
01:47:09 ◼ ► Micro if you have the particular dish I had was the ultimate sampler which I did not consume all of because I didn't [TS]
01:47:18 ◼ ► have I didn't have the room but it is fettuccine alfredo meat was on E.S.P.N. He and Penny with meat sauce. [TS]
01:47:27 ◼ ► and starchy foods a problem with fast food italian like fast food in terms of like you walk up to someone tell them [TS]
01:47:36 ◼ ► or you know we started out even if you take a little number if you wear it while it's like I mean it takes a minimum [TS]
01:47:45 ◼ ► But the fast food italian place like what they have to have the Bastardi ready and it is dumped into hot water [TS]
01:47:53 ◼ ► I mean I would rather have a microwave tables on it than some pasta that's been sitting around waiting for me to show [TS]
01:48:00 ◼ ► Like no you can't you can't have the knowledge thing is fast food passed another kind of diet would I mean the big [TS]
01:48:07 ◼ ► restaurants make a bundle of Arnie anyway and kind of for you but they make it that day. [TS]
01:48:10 ◼ ► Not all is well you know they're going to tell us about a place I wish I were that they wouldn't even bother the crap [TS]
01:48:19 ◼ ► The bread they serve was frozen you know bought in and it was usually better for ten minutes [TS]
01:48:24 ◼ ► and it is a privilege of warming up to the butter they would have me take the butter cups from the tables that were [TS]
01:48:36 ◼ ► Yeah I and I resisted I know I would whenever I would not do that they would yell at me and make me do it. [TS]
01:48:44 ◼ ► Oh man it was a no fat fast food italian should not be a thing that I guess I suppose pizzas kind of fast food a tiny [TS]
01:48:55 ◼ ► but I'm I'm not into these places that you enjoyed your terrible test for Italian you know where else I was at a Sonic [TS]
01:49:04 ◼ ► and I don't think you guys have that in NE because it's like a tour of the worst fast food restaurant in the country. [TS]
01:49:12 ◼ ► You listening to me talk about how much I was there's Ollie's in Sonic is like the entire rest of the friggin world [TS]
01:49:18 ◼ ► listening to you talk about Phish cheesy bread hot dogs. I did not have that. I had just a cheeseburger. This is very. [TS]
01:49:24 ◼ ► What color is that drink what is this made from food which drink any of them but all of that are shown on the Web site. [TS]
01:49:33 ◼ ► They're always like me on those bright blue it's like a purist cyan like a bright. So what are the hot dogs in this. [TS]
01:49:43 ◼ ► She's been with cheese and bacon on top of the hot dog with cheese wrapped around it and she's on topic. [TS]
01:49:48 ◼ ► Oh my God LOL It's only eleven hundred calories for one of these burgers. That's pretty low for fast food. [TS]
01:50:00 ◼ ► The ultimate cheese and bacon cheesy bread dog name where you were to get the info when attrition [TS]
01:50:08 ◼ ► and only five hundred fifty calories that's not as much as I would've thought from although it's only one hot dog [TS]
01:50:13 ◼ ► presently probably one or two of them but yeah no ultimate cheese and bacon cheesy bread dogs still [TS]
01:50:24 ◼ ► The teal cyan drink I was seeing on the home screen is apparently Powerade brand mountain blast slush which tastes like [TS]
01:50:33 ◼ ► mountain blast so I guess only one hundred fifty calories for that saying oh wait what that's a wacky pack. [TS]
01:50:55 ◼ ► and hot dogs don't bother me as much as like fess would tell you it's because you're telling [TS]
01:51:00 ◼ ► and I don't know I don't others like that I just been like burgers and how those were always kind of fast food [TS]
01:51:05 ◼ ► and there's not. They're mostly soy protein anyway or we have Shake Shack here now. [TS]
01:51:11 ◼ ► I like that I've never had Shake Shack but I'd really love to. I've heard it's excellent is very good. [TS]
01:51:16 ◼ ► There is usually a big line at the one than your going to have the one that ever rolls are but it is it is very good. [TS]
01:51:23 ◼ ► but it's like it's like greasy fast food done by foodies So it it it is a high quality implementation of greasy fast [TS]
01:51:39 ◼ ► I think I think Shake Shack feels a little bit more like feel like it's worse for you in your eating it which can be [TS]
01:51:51 ◼ ► or calorie difference between them like five guys feels more like it was made by you in your house or backyard [TS]
01:52:00 ◼ ► Exactly it's more like it was made in a restaurant because I mean they used a potato bun which maybe you wouldn't use [TS]
01:52:04 ◼ ► at home and their burgers are a little different I like them both I think five guys fries are better [TS]
01:52:11 ◼ ► and five has more variety in their menu but I stopped going to you know McDonald's and Burger King [TS]
01:52:18 ◼ ► and I think the reason I went in there is because they were like in the food court [TS]
01:52:21 ◼ ► and I could buy them with my little you know points card thing but I don't really go to those anymore [TS]
01:52:28 ◼ ► and I realized it was like making up for all those years that I never went to McDonald's Burger King or [TS]
01:52:32 ◼ ► when you're at a fast food place because now I can go to Shake Shack and pay way more money [TS]
01:52:37 ◼ ► and wait on a humongous line or have my wife went on a money line rather and anger burgers [TS]
01:52:43 ◼ ► and I mean they work at home and stuff too but ones are better than the ones that make it home [TS]
01:52:48 ◼ ► and probably much worse for me to see that this is a totally southern thing but we have a thing in North Carolina [TS]
01:52:53 ◼ ► and Virginia called cookout and they can get like forty four pounds of food for five bucks or something like that. [TS]
01:53:00 ◼ ► But but it is just like you were at a cookout in your backyard it is Yury how similar the burgers taste. [TS]
01:53:17 ◼ ► and I'm not I'm no good I'm no good at making burgers found out that a voter tried to do anything special to make their [TS]
01:53:23 ◼ ► home there are right but I recently decided that it's not really worth grilling burgers. [TS]
01:53:29 ◼ ► Most of the time I get really hot dogs it's so much easier because they're precooked so you can't really overcooked [TS]
01:53:36 ◼ ► them and they're very very obvious like when they're done and you like it's just so much [TS]
01:53:41 ◼ ► and then you can have two of them or you can do different things like you know you don't get awful for having one. [TS]
01:54:05 ◼ ► and no nitrates baking at Whole Foods they have also it's like healthier equivalents of healthy food really [TS]
01:54:15 ◼ ► I recently discovered there's a I don't know the brand name is there's a brand of like hipster Brooklyn hot dogs. [TS]
01:54:26 ◼ ► but they're really good they're like super foot long thing and they have the natural casing [TS]
01:54:31 ◼ ► and there'll be if you wanted There's a commercial option which is also really expensive [TS]
01:54:35 ◼ ► but this is basically the hotdogs I buys a fair offer something terrible for me a better to tamper with the terrible [TS]
01:54:46 ◼ ► Yeah it's very similar to the my store has those two they're very little like seven dollars for a pack [TS]
01:54:53 ◼ ► Yeah they're good though like it will go in there were just similar they're they're good because it only has like four [TS]
01:55:07 ◼ ► I'm willing to spend a dollar twenty five unusual if I have to do that because they are really good to look that up to [TS]
01:55:16 ◼ ► Absolutely try those ever ever on this bike I should try those particular hot dogs because I think most people bought [TS]
01:55:23 ◼ ► and people are afraid of them because they natural Kaysing try to like them so much better than every other hot dog if [TS]
01:55:30 ◼ ► i don't we don't buy anything except Boris at our dog because I want to eat anything else at this point [TS]
01:55:34 ◼ ► and then you have the regular choice or is it our dogs and the four long ones and you know they're expensive [TS]
01:55:39 ◼ ► or whatever is worth trying once to see if you care about the difference you know there's a hot dog shop very very near [TS]
01:55:45 ◼ ► to actually across the street from where I work and don't be creepy and it is really awesome. [TS]
01:56:01 ◼ ► And parents going to chat mentions ne things with Nathan's with natural his and those are hard to find around here [TS]
01:56:07 ◼ ► but I think they're the best tasting ones I've had that the Nathan's that we're using for long they might have them [TS]
01:56:17 ◼ ► but I figure to it like you know if you're eating hotdogs so often that paying about seventy five cents to a dollar per [TS]
01:56:26 ◼ ► hotdog is a big problem for you I think they're eating too many hot dogs of each other [TS]
01:56:42 ◼ ► Otherwise you're going to if you're an adult and even to me how dogs than that's a problem [TS]
01:56:55 ◼ ► Well you really need to find know in my friend Phil. He has found up in the D.C. Area. [TS]
01:57:03 ◼ ► This guy what is the name of the business I don't remember but it's it's a guy who makes sausage is his name is Losar. [TS]
01:57:10 ◼ ► He's like six three and three hundred pounds and he's from Hamburg and perfect or some [TS]
01:57:22 ◼ ► or wonderful in that is a terrible poll quote going to pay for it later in life that I don't like one of the now [TS]
01:57:30 ◼ ► committed sausages that little fart makes are excellent and I should just stop talking now. [TS]