The Accidental Tech Podcast

8: Hold Me!


00:00:00   it's scary and I don't like it helped me we missed a lot this week or last week I [TS]

00:00:06   guess I was here he says with not a hint of bitterness no of course not [TS]

00:00:12   John better now surely not I did want to mention quickly the the Dave Morin [TS]

00:00:19   vanity fair thing because I think from what I can tell based on some things [TS]

00:00:26   I've seen you know both from him making a few little comments here and there and [TS]

00:00:31   a few other people including the magazine's esteemed editor Glenn [TS]

00:00:35   Fleishman who who apparently talked a little bit more it sounds like it sounds [TS]

00:00:40   like it was pretty overblown like it sounds like the Vanity Fair reporter [TS]

00:00:45   might have been exaggerating or taking some of those things really far out of [TS]

00:00:49   context or mangled them somewhat so I want to give the guy a little bit of the [TS]

00:00:53   benefit of the doubt and as i've i've had reporters Mangal stuff I've told [TS]

00:01:00   them and it is terrible because it makes you look like a total douche and and [TS]

00:01:05   certainly his his thing to look that way you know we don't really know how much [TS]

00:01:13   of that he really said and how bad it really is so I do want to give the guy [TS]

00:01:18   with the benefit of doubt and just you know maybe the NM float the idea that [TS]

00:01:22   that might not have been entirely accurate [TS]

00:01:25   sounds like it probably wasn't I don't know could you could any human being be [TS]

00:01:32   that much of a colossal jerk without intending it means I don't know if you [TS]

00:01:37   so much of a jerk because like if I had given those answers and people have like [TS]

00:01:42   complained about me giving those answers I feel like I could defend him I don't I [TS]

00:01:48   didn't read the whole thing but I saw most of the quotes and they did seem [TS]

00:01:51   ridiculous but assuming they're talking about real things I would say to the [TS]

00:01:56   people who didn't like them you know come at me bro like to do you get two [TS]

00:02:01   phones you got one for the day and one for the night I guess I don't like a [TS]

00:02:04   battery pack makes my phone bigger [TS]

00:02:06   and so have I have two phones and I can't charge it all day cuz I'm running [TS]

00:02:10   around her meeting to meeting so having two phones let me help lets me have a [TS]

00:02:13   skinnier like that you could defend it and it actually did defend that [TS]

00:02:16   particular point hehe sentence in some Twitter at reply to somebody that what [TS]

00:02:20   he really said was that he has said he you know he does have two iPhones which [TS]

00:02:24   is ridiculous but he is also a very successful tech company CEO so you know [TS]

00:02:29   it's not like you know it goes with the territory it to some degree but he said [TS]

00:02:33   what the reason he has to is is one of them for only work stuff and only work [TS]

00:02:38   apps and the other one for only personal stuff so that he can like leave work at [TS]

00:02:42   work and not be destroyed my personal website that actually ok you know I [TS]

00:02:47   still don't really ever see myself having two iPhones even if money was no [TS]

00:02:51   object but I could see why he would do that it's not it's not a great solution [TS]

00:02:55   but like you I would feel like you could explain it and defended now what you [TS]

00:03:00   can't explain and defend is i mean assuming the courts are accurate is [TS]

00:03:04   saying those things in the context of interviewing not thinking people are [TS]

00:03:08   going to sound think you sound like a tool like he would you have to certain [TS]

00:03:11   things need to be provide context and if you don't think you're gonna be able to [TS]

00:03:15   provide that context or you know like this not the right forum to do that like [TS]

00:03:19   say you're talking with your friends about how you manage your phone's that's [TS]

00:03:22   the time to pop though I have one for working on home selling access not [TS]

00:03:25   extravagant cost wise and it is kind of annoying about it has lots of problems [TS]

00:03:29   picking stuff up between the phones is up but that's the context were you bring [TS]

00:03:32   this up you don't bring it up in like hey we're talking to you for magazines [TS]

00:03:35   really like this not the time to bring that up so he made some strategic errors [TS]

00:03:39   and went to bring things up and the the OSB on the offensive defensive and you [TS]

00:03:43   could say that as a joke but mostly you keep your ringer off because you don't [TS]

00:03:47   be disturbed during the day and the person says and ask you eyes a lot you [TS]

00:03:50   know the offense think it's a funny joke but if you just see the words written [TS]

00:03:55   there like he's dead serious he thinks you know the one of the theories I heard [TS]

00:03:58   right the beginning reference published somebody said that it looks like he [TS]

00:04:03   might just controlling them and if you go into that theory and you read it [TS]

00:04:08   again you can kind of see that that's that's actually why I would say that is [TS]

00:04:13   equally plausible as he's that much of a douche [TS]

00:04:16   equal [TS]

00:04:19   how are you told me that we discuss this when I when I first arrived in New York [TS]

00:04:24   last weekend when you first said maybe it's possible so I really mean I I think [TS]

00:04:31   the way more likely answer is that he wasn't trying to intentionally told him [TS]

00:04:35   and he isn't that much of a douche and the real answer is it was just blown out [TS]

00:04:40   of proportion by the reporter that he might not be that self-aware like you [TS]

00:04:43   could if you are that's true it's hard to tell I mean look at look at the [TS]

00:04:47   picture of the picture he got himself he does like college this dick up and that [TS]

00:04:52   is true and the pictures are kind of precious and like you would think like [TS]

00:04:57   someone who is just a little bit more self-aware and perhaps not as not as CEO [TS]

00:05:02   and current company might like [TS]

00:05:04   like I couldn't put a picture of myself like that like I would I don't know it's [TS]

00:05:09   a tough call but you know this is a this is a nine-story innuendo rules coming go [TS]

00:05:14   and I don't fault him as a person for any of this silliness speaking of [TS]

00:05:18   silliness I guess let's go chronologically Facebook home I don't [TS]

00:05:25   know what to make of that and I was never big into Facebook although it [TS]

00:05:32   seems from what I can tell that both you guys even at your peak like Facebook a [TS]

00:05:37   lot less than I like facebook but I i mean i look at it a few times a week [TS]

00:05:42   because it's it seems socially awkward not to never looked at Facebook ever and [TS]

00:05:49   that's exactly my point is that I think I i at my peak certainly and even now I [TS]

00:05:53   probably have embraced it more than I think either of you gentlemen but and I [TS]

00:05:58   think I could get away without ever looking at it and certainly Aaron and I [TS]

00:06:02   have mostly the same circle of friends so she could keep me updated on the [TS]

00:06:06   eight hundred people that are having babies right now but I don't know I just [TS]

00:06:11   I couldn't imagine an entire phone experience based solely off of what all [TS]

00:06:15   my friends are doing and furthermore it seems to me like one of the things that [TS]

00:06:20   society's challenged with these days that sounded way overblown but on a roll [TS]

00:06:24   with it now is that you're never in the moment you're always worrying about what [TS]

00:06:28   your Twitter people are saying [TS]

00:06:30   your Instagram followers are commenting on and liking and so on and so forth in [TS]

00:06:34   this seems to just make that even worse I dunno I just don't get it I think it [TS]

00:06:40   depends on like you know for me one of the reasons why I've never gotten into [TS]

00:06:44   Facebook Like I have an account but I've never been active in fact my wife [TS]

00:06:51   created the account for me when we got engaged so that she would have something [TS]

00:06:56   to point yeah exactly that's why that's when I got my account that's why she did [TS]

00:07:02   it but I've never really been active because it's it's not that I [TS]

00:07:09   fundamentally objective the product I don't I don't really care either way on [TS]

00:07:12   that front it's that Facebook is set up to [TS]

00:07:18   to inflate the idea of people you know and people whose content you want to [TS]

00:07:24   follow online and to me though those are very much not overlapping circles and [TS]

00:07:31   and I think that's true for a lot of people and that's why I like the beauty [TS]

00:07:34   of Twitter at first Facebook didn't even have a symmetric following I think now [TS]

00:07:40   it does anyone know for sure that's a little and it you know you want to block [TS]

00:07:46   me in like like maybe once every two or three months to answer some message from [TS]

00:07:50   somebody that I probably should answer the email inflation and and so I every [TS]

00:07:57   time I log in there is like a totally different interface and it confuses the [TS]

00:08:00   crap out of me and I i never know how to do anything or what's going on or where [TS]

00:08:03   something is [TS]

00:08:04   man yeah I need the kids to explain it to me that's the way the kids to explain [TS]

00:08:14   to me I know I know and knowing product when I see this is why I know all the [TS]

00:08:18   things it can do and I can't figure out how to do the eventual I just did not [TS]

00:08:21   want to do them and I don't do not want is my reactions like I had to stop [TS]

00:08:27   myself from liking our people get you know there they get all angry about [TS]

00:08:32   Apple just angry at Apple in like you just mentioned I hate Apple they just [TS]

00:08:37   getting I have to stop myself from [TS]

00:08:39   good feeling about Facebook or not I said do like four times anyway we can be [TS]

00:08:47   like everytime someone mentions anything about Facebook gets here in passing like [TS]

00:08:52   this voice matters men Facebook like just like a website where people do [TS]

00:08:58   stuff and they enjoy things that's a good way for people to connect the [TS]

00:09:01   people you know not everyone can have their own website and it's a way for [TS]

00:09:03   people to post pictures to each other and social like my rational brain knows [TS]

00:09:07   my facebook resistance popular but the other part of me it's visceral hatred [TS]

00:09:10   will anyone and I really don't like you know it it's one thing to say this is a [TS]

00:09:16   website where people can can communicate like you know tumblr is is a lot of the [TS]

00:09:20   same things for people so you know I got to see that develop and and and i think [TS]

00:09:25   what's different with things like Tumblr vs things like Facebook is that Facebook [TS]

00:09:29   is one of these companies which we've we've had a few of these in our history [TS]

00:09:32   of this industry it's one of these companies where if something is is [TS]

00:09:38   having some success they want a piece of it too and they can't stand not to be in [TS]

00:09:44   the market and the originator of this was Microsoft and then in our industry I [TS]

00:09:51   would say like I don't think I like the previous giants like IBM I don't think [TS]

00:09:56   they were much worse August so far because it would do anything like it [TS]

00:10:03   anyone became remotely popular we're going to one of those and Facebook at [TS]

00:10:06   least it's like lots of people go off and do lots of other things but you know [TS]

00:10:10   I didn't make a music player in the iPod was popular tablet I mean like the phone [TS]

00:10:17   you know they're not as like Microsoft like anybody does anything even if it [TS]

00:10:22   looks like they're gonna fail will make a failure profitable excited just just [TS]

00:10:25   in case you know what let's merge with NBC to or whatever the future things on [TS]

00:10:33   TV they're not as desperate as that type of vibe where a company gets big enough [TS]

00:10:41   and I i think is a rational thing Google and Facebook is like a look [TS]

00:10:45   we are big and successful but if we're just content to be what we are we are [TS]

00:10:50   going to get left behind and so all the companies are looking to see what the [TS]

00:10:54   next thing is going to be and like you know Google decided look we need to do [TS]

00:10:59   something with social and I can refocus their entire company on Google+ and [TS]

00:11:02   Facebook already the king of social said you know we see that the carrier week is [TS]

00:11:07   in mobile and that is not going away it's going to be a big thing we got we [TS]

00:11:10   gotta figure out something there so I think it's a reasonable strategy for [TS]

00:11:13   companies who are very large not to be happy with what they are just get better [TS]

00:11:18   I did but to look for the play the other things but not everything out like a [TS]

00:11:23   game console do not like you know doing things that are grocery store house or [TS]

00:11:29   whatever like what everybody's doing stuff like that like there they've [TS]

00:11:32   picked a reasonable thing I think like look we have to be in mobile if we're [TS]

00:11:35   not in mobile we're screwed long-term so they're doing something well the way [TS]

00:11:39   they're doing it though and this is this is partly why I brought up the the [TS]

00:11:43   sprawl argument the way they're doing it is seemingly designed with the [TS]

00:11:48   assumption that everyone using it exclusively uses Facebook or primarily [TS]

00:11:54   uses Facebook as their communication mechanism to anybody and and it seems [TS]

00:12:00   like I'm part of that might just be like blindness to people who only partially [TS]

00:12:08   care about Facebook or communicate with some of their friends on Facebook and [TS]

00:12:11   some not and part of it might be an effort to actively extinguished that [TS]

00:12:16   kind of use and to convert those people to like to spread the tentacles and [TS]

00:12:21   bring them in and kind of railroad them into using Facebook for way more of the [TS]

00:12:26   communications a previously reduced through other channels like text [TS]

00:12:29   messaging or anything else and and and that that kind of the wrong way like [TS]

00:12:35   that and so it just ignorance where they're where they're just thinking well [TS]

00:12:40   of course everyone who uses Facebook only uses Facebook and that's one thing [TS]

00:12:43   I don't think they're that stupid though Facebook has shown extremely good [TS]

00:12:48   product [TS]

00:12:49   sense product sensibilities skills in in getting people in keeping them there [TS]

00:12:56   so I don't think you can be any Facebook moved to stupidity I think they're [TS]

00:13:01   they're very very smart people running a company and so Microsoft you know they [TS]

00:13:08   they have extremely smart people and companies so so they know exactly what [TS]

00:13:11   they're doing and I think it's very clear what they're doing here they are [TS]

00:13:14   they are extinguishing or at least attempting to extinguish any other [TS]

00:13:21   communication methods on the phones that have been infected by this this home [TS]

00:13:27   thing all the old stuff is still there too [TS]

00:13:30   well they're they're trying to bury it is likely to be there to like they you [TS]

00:13:37   know if they don't know if they're not assembling at least you know SMS text [TS]

00:13:42   messaging or whatever other thing people using at least a sibling with that if [TS]

00:13:46   you have to launch the Facebook app and that their subordinate to the rest of [TS]

00:13:49   the phone experience kinda like they are on iOS right they they think they should [TS]

00:13:53   at least be assembling with those things and since Android allows you to take [TS]

00:13:57   over the lock screen stopped now they look like they're out in front of [TS]

00:14:00   everything else but I still call that a sibling just because the first thing you [TS]

00:14:03   see it still like alongside the other stuff maybe I don't know why I think [TS]

00:14:09   we'll see how it plays out because 11 very careful I now have to walk is if [TS]

00:14:14   they do go too far in that direction of being too aggressive and and not working [TS]

00:14:20   very well or making the phone not work very well if you wanna do a lot of non [TS]

00:14:23   Facebook communication that if they go too far in the direction of fewer [TS]

00:14:27   installs of this thing and fewer sales of those phones that have a [TS]

00:14:31   pre-installed so you know they have to walk that line somewhat I i guess i to [TS]

00:14:36   see how this plays out and to see like you know does this is this still roughly [TS]

00:14:42   the same kind of thing in six months or a year and how many people are using it [TS]

00:14:46   you know the thing I was thinking about her home and for another topic openly [TS]

00:14:51   talk about a blog posts doing on this and it will go ahead and spoil the whole [TS]

00:14:55   blog post because it involved utensil there's not that much overlap it seems [TS]

00:15:00   to be able to read the blog and people listen to the podcast because often they [TS]

00:15:03   choose not to blog something that I podcast about any two people are going [TS]

00:15:06   to talk about podcasting [TS]

00:15:08   talking about anyway so in both these situations the kind of like an RTS a [TS]

00:15:15   little bit and the recent that the resource that is critical to victory in [TS]

00:15:22   the realm of both Facebook home and also in the WebKit blink thing is developers [TS]

00:15:28   they need to mind for more developers basically and there is something about [TS]

00:15:31   in that respect and talk about developers to make this stuff is on [TS]

00:15:39   homer and like all this is just a precursor they're gonna for pandering [TS]

00:15:41   they're going to do their own tests right they would you like me now but I [TS]

00:15:44   clearly they're gonna they're gonna make their own phone OS and and you know [TS]

00:15:47   thanks google for giving us a head start with Android will take what you gotta go [TS]

00:15:52   after injection kinda like blanketed with WebKit right but same thing with [TS]

00:15:57   Samsung or Samsung's working on their Android part thanks cool for all of your [TS]

00:16:00   hard work now we're off to the races haha school you go making all the money [TS]

00:16:03   you're screwed like they can't they can't beat Facebook with Google+ and [TS]

00:16:07   they can they can make money off and rugged Samsung song all the phones and [TS]

00:16:10   they cannot profit so far google did all the work to make Android and other ppl [TS]

00:16:13   stolen did what they wanted like that's one narrative about this thing but in [TS]

00:16:17   the case of Samsung and Facebook I had to think like you know does Facebook [TS]

00:16:24   have the skill to say thanks go were taken and it would take a miracle for [TS]

00:16:28   can go off on her own and they support a platform committee develop an OS on on [TS]

00:16:33   going too well but the whole thing like okay you either forked in which case ok [TS]

00:16:39   well you're you're on your own [TS]

00:16:40   merging with the next version of Android the Google puts out you will divert G [TS]

00:16:44   Wilfork you will split is not you will not be able to benefit from the future [TS]

00:16:47   work the Google does are very difficult for you otherwise you're not forcing [TS]

00:16:51   otherwise you're just piggybacking so people can make their own a lesson will [TS]

00:16:55   be a fork [TS]

00:16:56   you're giving up being able to do say merges with the next major version [TS]

00:17:01   and really you're either going to be the platform owner or you're not right now [TS]

00:17:04   Google's the platform or they may do they continue to make it the next [TS]

00:17:08   version of the OS comes from and the other people say okay we'll come up with [TS]

00:17:11   the next major version lets integrated and screwed up in some way immoral crap [TS]

00:17:15   on it right and that's what Facebook is doing now but for kids become master of [TS]

00:17:19   your own destiny [TS]

00:17:20   only OS we make our own OS it used to be based on Android get whatever but now [TS]

00:17:24   it's our own thing we develop it [TS]

00:17:25   we support the developers like to the point where you could have application [TS]

00:17:29   compatibility diversion some point the future because that's what a fork [TS]

00:17:31   eventually leads to ya all this one works on Facebook so as but not unlike [TS]

00:17:36   regular Android none Samsung and I don't think Facebook has the ability to be a [TS]

00:17:41   platform owner they do you know maybe they can hire up that ability certainly [TS]

00:17:44   didn't have the ability to to make a well-designed [TS]

00:17:47   designers but right now I don't think Facebook has the ability to be a [TS]

00:17:51   platform because that is a high bar like how many how many sets of successful [TS]

00:17:55   platform owners have we seen in our industry Microsoft Apple Google and [TS]

00:17:59   Facebook they they don't they're not making any of this I'm talking about [TS]

00:18:04   that's the thing is that it is a very big distinction but to kind of set that [TS]

00:18:11   aside just for a moment I mean it when I remember back to the original days of [TS]

00:18:14   Facebook where it was completely Facebook controlled there were no [TS]

00:18:18   absolute no freakin farmville or anything like that it was a very [TS]

00:18:22   different it was a very different place that was really about sharing your life [TS]

00:18:25   and at that point it wasn't yet about throwing away all of your privacy or if [TS]

00:18:30   it was that it would they were quiet about it but now able to your point it's [TS]

00:18:35   not a creative platform but it's still too large to create a platform you have [TS]

00:18:40   all these different apps if you would call them that running on and on top of [TS]

00:18:44   their platform and they've done a lot to they've done a lot of kind of wild [TS]

00:18:49   things in order to make their platform work and what comes to mind in this this [TS]

00:18:53   is kinda what you guys are saying about them having some really bright people [TS]

00:18:57   there and Mark I presume you would know better than i didnt they write like a [TS]

00:19:00   PHP to C++ cross compiler something like that but that's that's service i'd like [TS]

00:19:07   a web platform and they haven't API platform like writing an OS like you [TS]

00:19:12   have a hardware device and you want the operating system on the hardware devices [TS]

00:19:16   you build up in layers from the thing controlling the cell radio to the [TS]

00:19:19   graphics system to every other products nos actual native iOS and Google is [TS]

00:19:24   doing all that work now well not quite a stir with Linux I mean I know but like [TS]

00:19:31   the didn't for clinics right right now it's like if they have a base foundation [TS]

00:19:35   to follow but when you do the OS part like that's that's where you're making [TS]

00:19:38   the API in the new version has a different API for scrolling is different [TS]

00:19:42   but it's not just feel like that's OS development and all that annoying crap [TS]

00:19:46   alike are you gotta have API documentation he got a developer program [TS]

00:19:49   STK gonna make sure the tools worth all the crap that Apple does all the crap [TS]

00:19:53   the Google does her it's cool don't like and you've got to develop the OSU have [TS]

00:19:57   to make a better year after year they want a new major version that does [TS]

00:20:00   something better that has faster graphics that uses the GPU better than [TS]

00:20:03   API's it takes a lot of people a lot of skill and expertise to do that and it's [TS]

00:20:08   not easy and I don't like Amazon is exactly how they fork tender to make [TS]

00:20:12   their songs you know they thought that is their own thing they don't have the [TS]

00:20:17   skills in house to be to develop their own arrest there inevitably they're [TS]

00:20:20   gonna have to either just been it's like I'm losing very dead end the slowly [TS]

00:20:24   evolves in whatever direction they want or they're gonna have to do some super [TS]

00:20:27   painful resync or another reform or something but clearly I am actually I [TS]

00:20:32   think they actually have like cold more recent changes from Google into their [TS]

00:20:37   version already likes of for some of the newer devices I'm pretty sure somebody [TS]

00:20:41   told me that they had done that but they're doing that they're not really [TS]

00:20:45   much of a fork at that point then you just kind of like your dinner some of [TS]

00:20:48   the people who is taking over 200 zone mutating internal I Q U R E there you [TS]

00:20:52   were there have your own unless you don't like are you depended on google or [TS]

00:20:55   not like if Google decides we're not developing and retaining more are you [TS]

00:20:58   screwed that's that's how you can tell whether you are really a master of your [TS]

00:21:02   own destiny like Apple's not relying on anyone to develop the rest Microsoft is [TS]

00:21:05   not relying on the other is Google like but if Google just sold his arm says you [TS]

00:21:08   know what nevermind that enters ever gonna stop developing it everyone who [TS]

00:21:12   makes an Android device who who is a has been using like Android in any form of [TS]

00:21:15   the bike but [TS]

00:21:16   but the next year when album comes out with a new version of their mobile us [TS]

00:21:20   but what will we do look like well you know someone could quote from Watchmen [TS]

00:21:26   right now if they knew the quote but I don't but you know it's also induce [TS]

00:21:30   imagining your head right now [TS]

00:21:31   well I think it's an independent it's worth considering what happens in that [TS]

00:21:38   scenario let's say let's see [TS]

00:21:40   not not nothin Google stopped developing in just like a thought exercise to see [TS]

00:21:45   if you really are independent but what if they take a close source that that's [TS]

00:21:49   the trouble even less likely than stopping [TS]

00:21:52   is it so the licensing prevents them from actually doing that and I go [TS]

00:21:56   forward basis I think they can just close the door and say ok what we really [TS]

00:21:59   so far as open but going forward all that will be closed if Amazon can do it [TS]

00:22:04   why can't I don't think Amazon everything I i dont no licensing issues [TS]

00:22:09   involved but this seems very unlikely like legally speaking and even if it's [TS]

00:22:13   legally like politically imagine what would happen there I get much more [TS]

00:22:17   likely that they will use their their licensing agreements with the Google [TS]

00:22:23   services to be like you know like if you want to be able to use the Google [TS]

00:22:27   services with your thing and be certified as an Android device and all [TS]

00:22:31   the other tools they have to put people and lines they've been trying to use [TS]

00:22:34   like carriers to stop mucking up their awesome stuff they probably will [TS]

00:22:38   continue to turn the screws on those but that doesn't do anything against like [TS]

00:22:41   Amazon probably because they like you know you can't even call your thing and [TS]

00:22:46   rhetoric ok well you can even use the Google Play Store story like I don't [TS]

00:22:52   know what kind of screws they can turn out as I don't think the complaint [TS]

00:22:55   closed closed source but that same type of deal say they didn't a close source [TS]

00:22:58   if you always under sweating bullets because you realize you do not have [TS]

00:23:03   people who can develop maintain support like mobile OS which is incredibly [TS]

00:23:07   complicated thing right then you realize oh geez we really were a parasite on [TS]

00:23:13   Google which may have been bad for googling great for you when it was [TS]

00:23:16   happening but realize that's what you are so everyone was clamoring for a [TS]

00:23:19   facebook you know for a Samsung forgiving Samsung is even less likely to [TS]

00:23:24   be able to develop their own mobile OS right that would be [TS]

00:23:28   both of them could step up to do it like Facebook just bought which was that [TS]

00:23:33   company run by I'm at Sangam pronouncing his name correctly the author of the [TS]

00:23:37   gigantic Mac OS 10 internals book that's off to my right right now he's a smart [TS]

00:23:42   guy heavily into OS as he did this like stealth startup that we don't even know [TS]

00:23:46   what they're doing with a bunch of the smart people on Facebook bought them [TS]

00:23:48   this afternoon the like you know now he's got interested now Facebook has an [TS]

00:23:53   internal team so maybe they are stepping up for a bit like that's that's the [TS]

00:23:56   resources they need to mind 40 if you want to be independent of Google and be [TS]

00:24:01   a player in the mobile space along with you know Apple Microsoft rim and Google [TS]

00:24:06   whoever you want to stay out there who has actually a mobile platform you've [TS]

00:24:10   got to be master of your own destiny and do that I wonder though you know it I [TS]

00:24:15   think it's worth it's worth considering [TS]

00:24:16   let's say something happen with Google Earth Android or something something [TS]

00:24:21   happened where it forced Amazon to no longer be able to pull changes from [TS]

00:24:27   Google whatever whatever it is whether it's going close source or whether it's [TS]

00:24:31   becomes really impossible things do it or Google to something else who knows [TS]

00:24:34   but suppose amazon has do basically get stuck with what they have so far and any [TS]

00:24:41   other [TS]

00:24:41   let stagnate forever and just you know build a minor things on top of it or [TS]

00:24:46   hire some ridiculously large [TS]

00:24:49   OS team to to develop that which is a major undertaking as you said how long [TS]

00:24:53   do you think they could go without doing that like how long do you think they [TS]

00:24:58   could keep selling Kindle branded tablets and maybe even eventually phones [TS]

00:25:03   while keeping the same rough version of Android they have now and just doing [TS]

00:25:09   minor tweaks of it as necessary over time [TS]

00:25:12   couple years probably I'm thinking I might be like 10 years because I think [TS]

00:25:18   about I know things are matured a little bit it's not like horrendously slow [TS]

00:25:22   whatever but you know hardware just in terms of hardware support hardware moves [TS]

00:25:26   on like it you know ten years on the phones are you using 64 bit system on [TS]

00:25:29   chips and they're gonna have a 32 bit OS and so like right away just forget it [TS]

00:25:33   you need to do something they're not gonna be maybe those those chips only [TS]

00:25:36   one run 32 bits like you have that the solution for fat by areas and [TS]

00:25:40   may be different architecture may be there on x86 thank God knows what's [TS]

00:25:43   gonna happen ten years there they cannot last that long but a couple of years [TS]

00:25:46   they could do it and by the end of that run it would be like boy this really [TS]

00:25:50   doesn't already feels clunky and slow awesome now so they don't have a big [TS]

00:25:57   cushion but nobody buys the Amazon Harbor because it's good it's not it's [TS]

00:26:02   actually really really quite terrible in most ways but the heart and nobody buys [TS]

00:26:08   it for that either by Evan stuff because of price and because the Amazon content [TS]

00:26:13   ecosystem that's those are the two in that order those are the two big reasons [TS]

00:26:16   why people buy the Amazon stuff I wish I knew how many people are actually buying [TS]

00:26:20   Kindle Fire tablets and how those people how many people were using them like [TS]

00:26:25   tablets not just as a way to play Angry Birds and read books over John it's a [TS]

00:26:29   record number of of Kindle buyers this year it's like percent more than last [TS]

00:26:33   year and last year it was the number one selling product on Amazon I like I don't [TS]

00:26:38   pay attention to them until they come to play right reading fine they're they're [TS]

00:26:45   doing I assume they're doing well now because I don't see anyone else being [TS]

00:26:48   dominant in the reading space but in the tablet space they seems like they're [TS]

00:26:53   just haven't really committed but they like Amazon as patients so they keep [TS]

00:26:57   doing what they're doing and I don't doubt like of all the company's amazon [TS]

00:27:01   has shown that it's willing to step up to do crazy stuff you know so maybe [TS]

00:27:05   someday they will be you know Jeff Bezos to wake up and say you know what we know [TS]

00:27:09   as team higher everybody we won't be able to make any money for another two [TS]

00:27:14   decades and so there is never enough in the context of blankets because black is [TS]

00:27:19   a similar situation where you had WebKit HTML with a bunch of Linux nerds making [TS]

00:27:26   their stuff like conquer and everything becomes long does actually we have like [TS]

00:27:31   we're gonna pay people to develop this and they will quickly dwarf all your [TS]

00:27:35   efforts because they're you know how he motivated highly paid highly skilled [TS]

00:27:39   people versus your group of volunteers and lo and behold guess what now we are [TS]

00:27:43   the rules of this thing and we doubled WebKit [TS]

00:27:45   and thanks a lot caged in El Cajon yes we are not running the show here and [TS]

00:27:50   then Google comes along makes its browser Chrome says it will use with it [TS]

00:27:52   that's great and Apple and Google in lockstep but now developing south until [TS]

00:27:56   eventually it's like google has more commuters and is putting more coding to [TS]

00:28:00   get the Nablus and then you know the tension between the different process [TS]

00:28:05   models and other stuff and they can't cooperate because the deadly enemies in [TS]

00:28:09   this will work on the same project and Google says you know what we're going [TS]

00:28:11   too far on and at that point [TS]

00:28:13   Google is entirely able to support the development of anything Apple might be [TS]

00:28:17   like but what does that mean you're not going to contribute security fixes to [TS]

00:28:20   get anymore cuz it's a really nice we like nose and you know like JavaScript [TS]

00:28:26   engine which was pretty darn good apples in like can we were so proud of our job [TS]

00:28:30   trends in this made their own and they keep making their it better and I guess [TS]

00:28:33   I was good but like cheese every two weeks they keep making up things faster [TS]

00:28:36   and it's scary and I don't like it helped me so you know this is a [TS]

00:28:41   situation where Google Google has the developers Google does not need to mind [TS]

00:28:45   from or developer resources they have they are in the driver's seat of blink [TS]