The Accidental Tech Podcast

95: The Bear Wakes Up and Bites You


00:00:00   Like everything in life it is one F.N. [TS]

00:00:02   Take command but it will take you three hours to figure out what that command actually is. [TS]

00:00:07   Yeah yeah right so you want to do a little follow up. [TS]

00:00:11   Follow suit as I said that I was like oh God that sounded a lot like the prom just the way you said it I know. [TS]

00:00:19   All right let's do that again. You see I want to do a little bit of follow up follow not to do that again. [TS]

00:00:23   Got was the worst All right something else talk don't don't phrase it as a question Casey. Let's do some follow up. [TS]

00:00:31   See you're right that's the key. [TS]

00:00:32   Johnny's of smart anyway so let's talk about across the road and purchases in top grossing lists [TS]

00:00:40   and I'm not sure which one of you put that's in the show notes but it was not me it was me. [TS]

00:00:45   We're talking about the financial prospects across the road indirectly talking about the financial prospects and Joe F. [TS]

00:00:51   Two it was one of first people to tweet that we're looking at a top grossing lists. [TS]

00:00:55   He says those ads won't show up as part of the top grossing only in out purchases well [TS]

00:01:01   and I think it's also because that they appear to be third party ads [TS]

00:01:04   and not ads to ramp alliances them I don't know if you did like Popeye ads that would contribute to top grossing But [TS]

00:01:11   certainly if you're getting paid through a third party for the ads in your thing that have all contributed. [TS]

00:01:18   Well it's interesting that Apple doesn't as far as I know asked for a thirty percent cut of ads that you run that are [TS]

00:01:24   not the rabble. [TS]

00:01:26   He actually kind of surprise they allow that at all I think the only reason they do is because people were doing ads in [TS]

00:01:33   their ad before I had existed and then [TS]

00:01:35   and I think Apple's doesn't really care that much about I had to really force that to be the case [TS]

00:01:41   but yeah it is kind of weird like you can't do a third party credit card processing thing for purchase [TS]

00:01:48   but they allow you to have their party ads. Again it doesn't make a lot of sense. [TS]

00:01:52   Not that that ever happens with Apple in their rules [TS]

00:01:55   and then would you like to talk about our friend of the show Steve Leung. What he had to tell us. [TS]

00:02:01   Yes Shortly after we recorded last week's show we talked a lot of our crosser oddness Montenegran strategy the game has [TS]

00:02:09   changed a little bit of a conservation strategy [TS]

00:02:11   and Steve wrote in with one aspect of that if you could buy they call a coin double [TS]

00:02:16   or you get your earned coins at a faster rate and you get a bonus one thousand coins for three ninety nine. [TS]

00:02:23   That's buying the piggy bank so there is something that doesn't change the game play [TS]

00:02:28   and you know sort of getting an extra life or walking on water or a slowing down time when the train is coming [TS]

00:02:32   or is like that it changes the monetization changes parts of the game that are part of monetization So [TS]

00:02:39   when I saw This Is It OK this is you know this is like a power up earn coins faster right. [TS]

00:02:45   But what can you do with those coins. [TS]

00:02:47   You just you know using them to get more chances at the gumball machine to get you characters [TS]

00:02:53   and that's one thing we didn't mention Alaska speaking of the characters is that the gumball machine is random [TS]

00:02:57   and it doesn't care like any gumball machine doesn't care what things you already have. [TS]

00:03:01   So as you accumulate players in the gumball machine you want to get a duplicate. [TS]

00:03:06   You know like you know you get another crazy old Ben for the fifteenth time so it's not like you're going to inevitably [TS]

00:03:11   get all the characters and I don't even know if the GO machine [TS]

00:03:14   and all the characters some of them may be purchased only that there's a bunch of new characters that added a thing [TS]

00:03:20   where you can try out a new character for a short period of time [TS]

00:03:23   and at the end of that time that you buy at a discounted rate all sorts of new things are showing up an update to the [TS]

00:03:28   thing they had they're further emphasizing the the thing that was always there I think a little share she'd let you [TS]

00:03:34   share like a screenshot of your score on your death. [TS]

00:03:36   Now that is much more prominent makes you notice that it's either more prominent [TS]

00:03:39   or didn't exist before I certainly didn't even know existed for it I'm not looking for a Share button [TS]

00:03:43   and now it's more in my face and not only do I see it in the game but I see things that other people post. [TS]

00:03:48   So anyway the month is ation strategy across the road is fluid [TS]

00:03:52   and is moving more towards things that are slightly more aggressive about getting you to buy. [TS]

00:04:00   Then it was before [TS]

00:04:01   and I don't think that's because the developer is desperate for money because all of these things are still pretty mild [TS]

00:04:08   in the grand scheme of things they're not there they're not punitive it's still entirely you know for fun [TS]

00:04:16   and not you know pay to win type of gameplay style. [TS]

00:04:19   You know even with the coin door but nothing affects the actual game which is avoiding being hit by cars [TS]

00:04:24   and falling in the water and being hit by trains. [TS]

00:04:27   If it ever makes that turn I'm sure we'll noted on the program [TS]

00:04:30   but I'm pretty confident now especially with ingress your climb the charts that they're doing just fine with this game. [TS]

00:04:36   Yeah in fact I mean it's been a pretty big difference so in I would say the changes they're making are working to bring [TS]

00:04:43   them more money because they've made a pretty large jump in the top grossing chart since last week like [TS]

00:04:49   when we were talking they were somewhere around the two hundred range of top grossing [TS]

00:04:53   and now they're like in the sixty's. [TS]

00:04:55   So they whatever they're doing you know changes are making are working to bring them in more money that's more personal [TS]

00:05:01   to the actual damage. [TS]

00:05:03   I don't know the timing though I don't know if they started climbing the charts before [TS]

00:05:05   or after they rolled out these changes I don't know the specifics so it could just be you know gaining traction from [TS]

00:05:10   word of mouth and you know it's hard to say I know it's still a good game is still trying it out. [TS]

00:05:17   Tip is now totally hooked [TS]

00:05:18   and cover an M Earlier you know that you for continuing to move your score forward to pastors I just I just stopped [TS]

00:05:27   moving and for once I became the number one in my game central aside my son's garbage Asian store [TS]

00:05:32   and I really played so much going to so what is your current score. [TS]

00:05:35   My score as depressing as I was trying to be Jason's girl I got you know I couldn't get him to accept my son's friend [TS]

00:05:42   requests so that I can maybe demonic something that someone who is who are you know would be about as some like to beat [TS]

00:05:47   it. [TS]

00:05:48   And this girl was like one ninety three and I got one ninety one and I had that for a while [TS]

00:05:52   and then I want I need to have that for a while and there's nothing worse than than seeing yourself die [TS]

00:05:58   when you're like one of them. [TS]

00:06:00   Pop away from tie into heart and and then eventually got to sixteen and I'm depressed to sixteen because [TS]

00:06:06   when I got to sixteen my death a super stupid I just got I was just so happy that I had one I was like OK now I don't [TS]

00:06:12   mean to go any farther I could've done much for others. Stupid death. [TS]

00:06:15   So I'm kind of all thought of going back does it go golfing. [TS]

00:06:21   Yeah whatever I thought and tried that one but I am enjoying cross the road more than I probably should. [TS]

00:06:25   That is a good game so we should probably talk about what Daniel jacket said about push notification spam filtering [TS]

00:06:32   Marco did you get a chance to read this earlier today. I read this ten minutes ago yet so what. [TS]

00:06:36   Well we were talking about last episode [TS]

00:06:38   and what Daniel was kind of replying to was what especially mark of a talked about with regard to push notification [TS]

00:06:46   spam and and how the three of us really didn't come up with a terribly awesome way for Apple to filter the spam [TS]

00:06:54   or take action on the spam [TS]

00:06:56   and so one of the things we talked about was well maybe we could they could in list users to to help filter the spam [TS]

00:07:03   and notify apple of it and so did you an interesting point I'm going to read from this post on the show notes. [TS]

00:07:09   Apple can still use its unique role as the Creator of All Things I was to devise a system through which they would [TS]

00:07:14   themselves be virtually subscribed to all unremarkable notifications from a particular apps developer. [TS]

00:07:20   Think about the worst of the patient's name you've seen in my experience it's not super personalized In fact it's [TS]

00:07:24   liable to be in use meant to keep using the app to dance in a game to become more engaged. [TS]

00:07:29   Cetera I think Apple would collect a ton of useful information about spammy developers if they simply arranged that [TS]

00:07:34   every app on this app store is capable of sending push notifications included among its list of registered devices. [TS]

00:07:40   A pseudo device in Cupertino whose sole purpose was to receive notification scan for spammy keywords apply Beason [TS]

00:07:47   filters [TS]

00:07:48   and flag questionable questionable developers I think is a really good idea that seems like the hardest crap to put [TS]

00:07:55   together but it is a very interesting point I mean when you are in control of the entire ecosystem. [TS]

00:08:00   You probably can get away with doing something like that but and I was curious to hear what you guys thought. [TS]

00:08:04   So it's a really good idea. [TS]

00:08:06   You know so early in the post is like one of the problems is they can just run these kind of filter server side because [TS]

00:08:12   everything's encrypted end to end. [TS]

00:08:14   So in order to see the content of a message you have to be one of the recipients of the message. [TS]

00:08:19   And and that's that's actually not entirely true. [TS]

00:08:25   When you when you send a push notification request you send it over S.S.L. [TS]

00:08:31   but The server on the other side has a degree and you're sending a Jason dictionary. [TS]

00:08:36   So if your server is not encrypted data separately from S.S.L. [TS]

00:08:41   You know that that intrusion is happening after it gets into Apple's hands so it's a Didn't sumption early on is [TS]

00:08:47   actually not correct that they could be doing the server side if they wanted to without have been like at this big sort [TS]

00:08:52   of device. I think it's two problems with that. Number one it would have to. [TS]

00:08:57   It would almost certainly be abused and worked around very quickly. [TS]

00:09:02   For instance developers could start using different schemes or friends in the background [TS]

00:09:07   or refreshed you can just send whatever you want as the payload of a silent notification for back and refresh. [TS]

00:09:15   That doesn't show anything in text to the user then you can have your app generate a local notification based on [TS]

00:09:21   whatever you want that says whatever you want from that. That's actually how I said all of mine. [TS]

00:09:25   All everyday every overpass notification is Message List it is a content available out of acacia [TS]

00:09:30   and then the app wakes up performs a sink [TS]

00:09:34   and then for any new episode it finds it shows on a vacation from their title. [TS]

00:09:40   So all of the text that is being shown to the user input on a vacation is not going through Apple servers [TS]

00:09:47   and will require the app to be launched to generate [TS]

00:09:51   and of course you know developers would very quickly work around this kind of system if it was in place they would you [TS]

00:09:56   know just they would show the text in different ways they would respond. [TS]

00:10:00   Respond to sounds of occasions are they would you know encrypt the messages [TS]

00:10:03   and you cut them with a custom scheme with the app or whatever so that that method wouldn't entirely work. [TS]

00:10:09   What what would work better [TS]

00:10:12   and what would actually be a prerequisite to having the kind of set up it all is if Apple cared. [TS]

00:10:20   That's the biggest problem here is that it really really seems like Apple doesn't care about this problem by their [TS]

00:10:25   complete inaction and complete seeming seeming inability and unwillingness to enforce this rule [TS]

00:10:33   and then to even break it themselves up with one of their teens. [TS]

00:10:35   I think it's very clear that Apple simply doesn't think this is a problem because [TS]

00:10:40   when Apple thinks something is a problem it tends to get attention it tends to get addressed. [TS]

00:10:45   And then [TS]

00:10:45   when Apple you know Apple has kind of this tunnel vision sometimes where whatever they care about whatever the hot [TS]

00:10:51   thing is at that moment it gets this laser focus. [TS]

00:10:54   They do crazy things it gets remade or gets massive progress made on it [TS]

00:10:59   and then it gets left alone untouched for ten years [TS]

00:11:02   and I think this is one of those things where like like this is an area of the App Store that they just don't care [TS]

00:11:08   about like much of the App Store honestly I mean most of the after does not see rapid change the policies sure don't [TS]

00:11:15   and I think it is very clear this is a problem this is a problem to two dicks like us [TS]

00:11:22   and people who are as picky as me [TS]

00:11:25   but Apple does not think this is a problem because if they thought it was a problem they would be doing more to enforce [TS]

00:11:30   the rule. [TS]

00:11:31   And they're not I think of another reason why Java pro solution ignoring encryption ignoring fake looking for good [TS]

00:11:38   stuff like that even if all the old workarounds didn't exist you would still this would still require Apple to do two [TS]

00:11:46   things one thing that Apple doesn't like to do [TS]

00:11:49   and one thing that very good at the thing they don't like to do is this will require them to essentially log all person [TS]

00:11:56   out of occasions and or store them in some. [TS]

00:12:00   Way so that you could verify that they were sent for some you know they're at the store some window of time [TS]

00:12:04   and the reason they're out to store them is because the second thing that I don't think they'd be very good at is [TS]

00:12:09   figuring out of something is in violation of the guidelines by looking at the content. [TS]

00:12:14   Computer wise you know spam detection and to do that well it's not easy to do that well [TS]

00:12:21   and do it fast at the same time so I think a wash of all the traffic as it goes by categorize it as spam or not spam [TS]

00:12:27   and then discard it because what if they got it wrong and they want to retrain their fellows [TS]

00:12:31   or whatever so it had to be stored for some period of time. So you know is a good man the middle everything. [TS]

00:12:36   Decrypt everything because they control the key servers and all those other stuff like undo all their And [TS]

00:12:41   and corruption look at the content. [TS]

00:12:43   Great now you're looking at all the push out of our [TS]

00:12:45   and by the way simulate user activity so that you get the push notifications that are that are in response to you using [TS]

00:12:51   application or not using the application [TS]

00:12:52   or having used it within a certain time have you know all the you have to do a hell of a lot to make a fake thing that [TS]

00:12:59   behaves in a way that is sure to trigger all of the spammy push notifications. [TS]

00:13:04   Then you're just left with a pile of push notifications that you have to look at [TS]

00:13:06   and determine which ones are legitimate [TS]

00:13:08   and that's hard for humans to do I mean Apple viewers can even determine if a map of the legitimate come in you're [TS]

00:13:13   expecting a computer in a few milliseconds to figure out if a push notification is in violation of the no promotions [TS]

00:13:19   rule. So that's why I keep going back to the only solution to this has to involve some kind of reporting by recipients. [TS]

00:13:29   You know I have received the spam personification report this application or disable notifications [TS]

00:13:36   and maybe you know I was trying to think of all less intrusive you eyes for doing this. [TS]

00:13:41   That wouldn't bother regular people maybe when you turn off push notifications for an app. [TS]

00:13:46   It may ask you if that him if that happened ever send you push notifications [TS]

00:13:50   or if it's a new push notification recently like within the past five minutes I'm ask you Are you disable notifications [TS]

00:13:55   because for one of these five reasons and you can say spam whatever. [TS]

00:14:00   Like some kind of thing like that that only some nerd will see the heavily gated on the the thing that we all do which [TS]

00:14:07   is something sends you notification you realize you forgot to turn off you merely go to system to system preferences [TS]

00:14:12   for that hole they call an Iowa settings and figure I kind of can make them both places [TS]

00:14:19   and you immediately go to turn it off and you know that I was going to take that sort of pattern [TS]

00:14:24   and can throw up something that you know kind of like those annoying unsubscribe things like your successor into [TS]

00:14:29   scribed uns is crap because you never answer the questions well if you're angry because something you spam. [TS]

00:14:34   I know I would click the little things. [TS]

00:14:36   Tap the little thing that says yeah I just disabled because I me an ad or something or was I going to add [TS]

00:14:41   and I have tons of false positives and people are saying really are not occasions period [TS]

00:14:45   but the volume of hundreds of millions of miles uses enough that you know they could do these in grass [TS]

00:14:50   and say all right this looks like a spammy applets may be investigated [TS]

00:14:54   and have five people week just run that up on their phones even send them in ads [TS]

00:14:57   and you know you know the type you talk about is what I show. Apple has all the power here. [TS]

00:15:02   They can totally stop this [TS]

00:15:04   but they're not powerless to you know all they have to do like Margaret said it care about it a little bit [TS]

00:15:10   and then like they they can at their leisure do almost anything. [TS]

00:15:15   Almost any possible sort of end user solution really really lightweight [TS]

00:15:20   and their volumes will make it such that will become super clear what the popular app that is spamming people is you're [TS]

00:15:25   never going to get the obscure app that spank you look at Seven people have installed [TS]

00:15:28   but you'll get the popular app that span people and then you send them a nice little note [TS]

00:15:32   and say hey throughout the spam be able play maybe stop that and they will stop [TS]

00:15:36   and if they don't they're out of the store it's just you know having having such incredible power of everything within [TS]

00:15:42   the app stores is like there they're wasting it by not using it for good. [TS]

00:15:47   Oh yeah I mean this is as we get into the after discussion I'm sure I'll bring this up again [TS]

00:15:51   but there are so many areas in which they could use us for good for example the way the new Twitter app scans your old [TS]

00:15:59   schemes and made. [TS]

00:16:00   I don't know but they scan for the apps you have installed [TS]

00:16:04   and they send that list of after you have installed to Twitter [TS]

00:16:08   and Twitter uses that to advertise to you this is a pretty big privacy violation. [TS]

00:16:13   People I generally expect because the way our west works in most ways is that apps are sandbox [TS]

00:16:21   and can't read data from other apps they can't even see other apps they can't even tell what you have installed. [TS]

00:16:26   Conceptually at least in practice there are two ways to tell if you have an app installed. [TS]

00:16:30   One is if the app registers for any U.R.L. Schemes then you can check for those. [TS]

00:16:36   What's one of the regs are not [TS]

00:16:38   and the second is there's a low level some kind of such control function somewhat I don't know which one it is [TS]

00:16:44   but there's a low level function to get the list of running process names [TS]

00:16:49   and so if you are if you pull that list you know on a regular basis the chances are you're going to catch a lot of apps [TS]

00:16:55   the user had installed in their currently running state. [TS]

00:16:57   And so you will eventually build up a list of what I have installed based on the process names that function. [TS]

00:17:03   I'm not sure there's a good reason for that to just an I O. S. or Two to return valid data. [TS]

00:17:10   It wouldn't surprise me if in the future similar to the way that Apple basically removed the MAC address access from [TS]

00:17:17   those low level system calls in Iowa I think seven that where they call is still there you can call it that is it just [TS]

00:17:25   returns all zeros for a MAC address now so much of that I don't think there's a reason why I O. S. [TS]

00:17:32   Needs this function to return valid process names to it to the app that's calling it. There's no ex P.C. [TS]

00:17:39   That African trolled or anything like that so I there's a good reason please let us know. Once that's not out as works. [TS]

00:17:46   Yeah I know that I don't I don't think there's a reason for that. [TS]

00:17:50   But so I think privacy wise that's because like I think Apple should care about this problem because the IDE in the [TS]

00:17:55   list of apps you have installed should be considered private. [TS]

00:18:00   Private information personal information that any one app shouldn't be able to get a list of apps in your from your all [TS]

00:18:06   schemes that's a trickier one. [TS]

00:18:08   So some apps they have your own schemes in place for various workflow things you know there's various reasons why you [TS]

00:18:15   want to have an publish your L. [TS]

00:18:17   Scheme [TS]

00:18:17   and if you're going to do that I guess it there's no real way around that around your app being discovered on the other [TS]

00:18:25   hand is a lot of us that you're all schemes in place for other reasons like some a lot S.T.K. [TS]

00:18:31   Thing the Facebook log in thing like some some plugin [TS]

00:18:35   or component of your app requires some kind of work around like where it kicks you to some other app you sign in [TS]

00:18:41   and it takes you back to back to your app and so you have to have your ask you to make that work [TS]

00:18:45   and so a lot of apps have you're asking that really aren't using them for any other purpose besides that sort of thing. [TS]

00:18:49   I was eight and the new extension system makes a whole lot of that unnecessary. [TS]

00:18:55   So I would actually suggest and I say this as one of the designers of X. Callback your L. [TS]

00:19:01   I would suggest that you or else schemes possibly be deprecated in the future [TS]

00:19:04   and remove later after that I think there are better ways around that problem that they've designed and I was eight. [TS]

00:19:10   If Apple's if Apple seems to think that it's OK for apps to have a list of ten thousand known your all schemes [TS]

00:19:15   and scrape all your absence and to a server [TS]

00:19:18   and advertise to you based on that which is what they're coming from permitting Twitter to do. [TS]

00:19:22   If Apple things that's OK That's going to continue [TS]

00:19:24   and that's going to be in every analytics package in every every scam e ad package for I O. S. [TS]

00:19:31   and It's going to become very standard practice for apps to spy on your other apps [TS]

00:19:34   and report those back to their their shady companies and that's really not good. [TS]

00:19:39   I really don't like that at all and so I think as U.R.L. [TS]

00:19:43   Schemes become dramatically less necessary with Iowa State may be the way forward is not to have them to remove that [TS]

00:19:51   possible area of abuse. [TS]

00:19:53   Secondarily Apple could just have a rule that they actually enforce that says you can't collect lists of apps from the. [TS]

00:20:00   A device and Sunday a service like that could just be your rule. They don't seem to care though. [TS]

00:20:06   Don't you get the feeling like again we have no visibility into whether anyone is actually thinking so we don't have to [TS]

00:20:11   guess. [TS]

00:20:11   Void information but that like this is tiered system in terms of developers externally you're all the same [TS]

00:20:19   but internally to Apple. [TS]

00:20:21   If the Twitter app starts doing something spammy Apple's reaction I would imagine is not to send a generic email from [TS]

00:20:31   some person that says your apps going to be pulled into two weeks if you don't stop doing this like what they do to [TS]

00:20:35   other people who you know. [TS]

00:20:36   Instead someone at much higher level has a nice friendly phone call or someone higher level in Twitter [TS]

00:20:42   and they have a discussion because Twitter one of they going to do pull the Twitter app. [TS]

00:20:45   I mean yeah Benchley they would if there was some sort of actual disagreement I totally believe they would pull the [TS]

00:20:50   trigger but you give him a little bit differently [TS]

00:20:52   when you're Twitter I mean another pulled path for applying all your contacts and everything. [TS]

00:20:56   But Pat that was not his biggest Twitter [TS]

00:20:58   and Like I mean they're nice to everybody like they're it's not like they're mean to other people [TS]

00:21:03   and nice to Twitter [TS]

00:21:04   but I just get the feeling based on nothing other than seeing their actions externally without knowing what's going on [TS]

00:21:11   in the box [TS]

00:21:12   and maybe hearing a little bit about sort of the the treatment in who gets picked to you know come two weeks early [TS]

00:21:18   and do a demo for a keynote or whatever. [TS]

00:21:21   Not every not every developer three the same and I think this is appropriate in general [TS]

00:21:25   but it goes against the sort of egalitarianism idealistic story of the App Store where you know anybody can play in all [TS]

00:21:31   the rules are the same for everybody. Not quite. [TS]

00:21:34   Doesn't seem like from the outside that it's quite the same for everybody so I don't have. [TS]

00:21:39   For all we know Apple has already talking Twitter and say we really prefer you not to get a list of apps. [TS]

00:21:45   It's not like we're going to play you from the store we know you have schedules just tell us that the next version [TS]

00:21:49   you'll fix this and give us a rough timeline will say OK and we won't say anything about it publicly [TS]

00:21:54   and everything will be fine. [TS]

00:21:56   It's only plausible to me that that could be happening inside Apple but of course we don't know. [TS]

00:22:00   So why don't you tell us about something we do know Marco. [TS]

00:22:04   We do know that we are sponsored this week by a new sponsor it is Oscar Oscar is a new kind of health insurance company. [TS]

00:22:11   They use technology to guide you to better care it's at high Oscar dot com slash A.T.P. [TS]

00:22:17   That's highly you know high high Oscar dot com slash A.T.P. [TS]

00:22:21   So most health insurers have you know other big corporation that their primary customers not individuals [TS]

00:22:26   and families and it really shows asker only offers plans for individuals and families. [TS]

00:22:32   They're focused on the needs of the individual they put people first. [TS]

00:22:35   And they've transformed health insurance from scary and overwhelming to friendly [TS]

00:22:39   and simple buying health insurance for yourself is a pretty intimidating process I've gone through it myself a number [TS]

00:22:45   of times. [TS]

00:22:46   Some of it should be for the Affordable Care Act And then we tell you that was terrifying because before there were all [TS]

00:22:53   these all these risks that you would take that aren't there anymore where it's like you have to understand all these [TS]

00:22:57   different numbers in all these different nations [TS]

00:22:59   and you'll have to ask like well in which ways could this bankrupt me like. [TS]

00:23:03   Unfortunately most of those things are now illegal [TS]

00:23:05   but there's still a whole bunch of like crazy numbers you can understand [TS]

00:23:09   and everything Oscar makes it as easy as possible Oscar. They have these clear honest language around their plans. [TS]

00:23:16   There's only a few plans to choose from and they're all pretty much the same plan just like how much do you want. [TS]

00:23:21   And they had this beautifully designed website that's easy to use full of information and very very clear. [TS]

00:23:27   You would not believe how they had other health insurance Web sites are lets you use them in which case you know what [TS]

00:23:32   I'm talking about. [TS]

00:23:34   And Oscar also offers great customer service via phone [TS]

00:23:37   or email which again is extremely unusual for health insurance companies after plans include benefits like free [TS]

00:23:45   checkups some free generic drugs free primary care doctor visits specialist referrals you want to get a referral first [TS]

00:23:53   huge time saver but the coolest benefit that they have I think they have a twenty four seven doctor on call service. [TS]

00:24:00   So any time day or night you can request a phone call [TS]

00:24:04   and a board certified practitioner will call you in a few minutes who can help you with many questions [TS]

00:24:09   and ailments right over the phone and they can even issue common prescriptions already over the phone. [TS]

00:24:14   And that service is free there's no co-pay there's no limit that's services free for Oscar members you can get twenty [TS]

00:24:20   four seven doctors on call. [TS]

00:24:22   I think credible starting in January OS remembers to receive credit of up to two hundred forty dollars a year for [TS]

00:24:28   reaching daily walking goals these goals are tailored to you based on your previous level of activity. [TS]

00:24:32   If you want to be in this article will give you a little wearable thing [TS]

00:24:35   and then you track your progress write in their app whether you're entirely healthy or you [TS]

00:24:40   or someone in your family has a complicated medical condition Oscar's plans will cover you. [TS]

00:24:44   You can buy their insurance through the new health insurance marketplaces if you're in most of northern New Jersey [TS]

00:24:48   or the parts of New York that are in or around the city like Westchester Rockland Suffolk Nassau. [TS]

00:24:54   So check their website to see if they cover you. Again it's most of northern New Jersey and metro New York. [TS]

00:24:59   Hi Oscar dot com slash A.T.P. [TS]

00:25:01   Will show you more about that [TS]

00:25:02   and what you just type in zip code you can get a chord like two seconds you type in the keys of your age basically [TS]

00:25:07   and that's it. [TS]

00:25:09   Because the way the health care marketplaces work you can only sign up from now through February so hurry up to your [TS]

00:25:15   deadline so if you sign up in the next couple days by December fifteenth you can get insurance for January first. [TS]

00:25:21   If you sent by January fifteenth of insurance for February first hurry up if you're into this this is not the kind of [TS]

00:25:27   thing you want to lay on. [TS]

00:25:29   If you need to buy health insurance for yourself and or your family this is a great way to do it. [TS]

00:25:33   Ask her in a novel approach to an industry that hasn't been innovative in decades to learn more about their plans [TS]

00:25:38   or to get a quote. Visit high Oscar dot com slash A.T.P. or Call they have a special numbers for A.T.P. [TS]

00:25:45   Listeners one eight four four Oscar ninety eight. [TS]

00:25:49   So thanks a lot to ask you for sponsoring our show man buying health insurance does suck [TS]

00:25:53   and it sucks even if you're employed at a regular job like John and I are still a pain in the butt. [TS]

00:26:00   You know so the self employed thing is definitely more difficult and usually more expensive. [TS]

00:26:04   But the one big downside of employer provided is that you usually have little [TS]

00:26:09   or no choice so you don't get to shop around you know. What if I like the Oscar and think it's awesome. [TS]

00:26:14   Well tough luck you can you know you can't forego the employer funded one because it's always so much cheaper because [TS]

00:26:20   they contribute some money to it but you have so few choices you could grow your job. [TS]

00:26:28   All right so anyway so we're still not happy with the App Store are we mark or I thought we were past all this. [TS]

00:26:36   I really did. [TS]

00:26:37   You know there were there was a time when the App Store first came out and over the first couple of years it was out. [TS]

00:26:43   We had a bunch of bumpy rejections from Apple figuring out its policy developers figure out what Apple wanted Apple at [TS]

00:26:50   first being pretty bad about communicating their policies and then later getting less bad at it. [TS]

00:26:54   Overall average view is a good idea. [TS]

00:26:57   Overall I support preview and overall I think it has benefited customers and developers and Apple [TS]

00:27:05   but there are still these dark patches and there are still a times when it seems like Apple is a little bit too. [TS]

00:27:16   I wouldn't associate power hungry but but they seem to be too strictly or [TS]

00:27:22   or overreaching in their rule enforcement in a way that doesn't seem to benefit anybody [TS]

00:27:27   and possibly even including Apple that like they're not they're not soon looking out for any kind of clear user benefit. [TS]

00:27:35   They're not like there's no major reason why this that we can see why Apple needs to enforce certain rules [TS]

00:27:42   or want to enforce certain rules. And there are a lot of rules they enforce that are unwritten. [TS]

00:27:47   And this is this is the biggest problem. [TS]

00:27:50   One of them is that that's going on now with or any notification center widgets and there seems to be this disconnect. [TS]

00:27:56   These are two different parts of Apple two very very distantly. Separated parts of Apple. [TS]

00:28:01   So I want to do you have Craig Federighi and his organization making the software and making the S T k's [TS]

00:28:08   and you know adding these great abilities to the lss but developer relations [TS]

00:28:14   and all part of Alpha relations including after review are all very deeply infill Schiller's organization. [TS]

00:28:21   So these are very separate parts of Apple and I think what we're seeing here. [TS]

00:28:26   We've seen some speculation over the last couple days from a couple of blogs in fact I'm a protector remember Ben [TS]

00:28:34   Thompson site trajectory. [TS]

00:28:35   I'm I'm one of his premium members and and I like his daily updates [TS]

00:28:40   and I highly recommend you daily updates they're extremely good he is one of the smartest writers on our business right [TS]

00:28:45   now [TS]

00:28:46   and he wrote one today saying you know saying along with a few others in the scene recently that it sure seems like maybe [TS]

00:28:53   there's some friction here between Schiller's organization and Federal Reserve's ation [TS]

00:28:57   and I don't know enough about to say more than that [TS]

00:29:00   but I think looking from the outside it does certainly seem like these two different parts of Apple are not of the same [TS]

00:29:05   page on everything and something something is going wrong there is some kind of friction or communication breakdown [TS]

00:29:11   or different priorities something is going wrong there because we have the massive you know as we said this past summer [TS]

00:29:19   at the B.B.C. [TS]

00:29:20   The massive love letter to developers Apple basically had this this past summer saying look at all this great new stuff [TS]

00:29:26   all these walls were lifting all these things you thought we'd never do what we did I'm all these these things you [TS]

00:29:31   could never do now you can do them now months later after the stuff is out and in consumers' hands and the zero S. [TS]

00:29:38   Is a rout and people actually start trying to do things with them. [TS]

00:29:41   We're seeing so many problems and rejections from the app review side of things. [TS]

00:29:48   Oh [TS]

00:29:48   and by the way it's also a third division is the asteroid a Tauriel team which is under eighty Q So so you have the people [TS]

00:29:57   who make the S. T. Ks the people who pick which. [TS]

00:30:00   Our featured to be like great examples of what I should be doing [TS]

00:30:03   and then the people making the policies of actually enforcing those rules those are all three different nations under [TS]

00:30:08   three different as he is inside Apple [TS]

00:30:10   and who apparently have different viewpoints on things I don't know if you could say that the development is on is in [TS]

00:30:16   conflict with any of those you could say that preview and apps are on a Tauriel [TS]

00:30:22   or at best just not communicating with each other and doing balancing things [TS]

00:30:27   but engineering like their responsibility is in cooperation with whatever they're you know sort of product design thing [TS]

00:30:35   or you know who are resigning with price going to do engineering jobs to do it you know implement it [TS]

00:30:40   and maybe I don't know if the products on it under that umbrella but probably anyway they create the A.P. [TS]

00:30:44   Eyes and every A.P.I. They create there some expectation is like we're just going to make something possible. [TS]

00:30:52   But although you may be able to do a thing with these guys for example read all the contacts [TS]

00:30:57   and email them to your server. [TS]

00:30:59   Like the little maid that's not their fault [TS]

00:31:01   or that you can do it like we're going to implement these features we're going to make them make features possible I [TS]

00:31:07   don't know if you know I don't think that [TS]

00:31:10   or you see that is as his responsibility to worry about you know whatever A.P.I. [TS]

00:31:14   You make obviously some developer is going to use A.P.I. [TS]

00:31:17   To do something that app or view is going to reject [TS]

00:31:20   and that does not necessarily imply a conflict between Craig Federighi and the after you section of the organization. [TS]

00:31:27   I don't think he would say that he that is has his role to make those decisions because there are no decisions he's [TS]

00:31:32   there are features that they want developers to be able to add to their products that are made possible by his A.P.I. [TS]

00:31:38   As there are also things that people can do with the engineering side makes that are going to be against Aberdeen [TS]

00:31:44   and that is the way it's always been [TS]

00:31:47   and it goes about like well I showed this to an engineer in the know in the labs that you see [TS]

00:31:53   and I thought it was awesome. Yeah they probably do think about somebody again. [TS]

00:31:56   They they know they're not in charge of after you. [TS]

00:32:00   And they're excited to see someone do use maybe I do something cool but I'll [TS]

00:32:05   but I still don't think that it implies a conflict between engineering [TS]

00:32:07   and the organization I think the the I think they were sure is the embarrassing lack of communication between editorial [TS]

00:32:16   and after a view in terms of promoting an application [TS]

00:32:18   and pulling it while it's on under Promotion like that's just the type of thing that should happen. [TS]

00:32:22   Those things communicate with each other better so there could be a conflict between [TS]

00:32:27   and it's a natural like we're digs out here we like if something is possible [TS]

00:32:31   and we can't think of a reason why we shouldn't do it. [TS]

00:32:34   It should be allowed and that's sort of a a sort of Apple engineers mindset [TS]

00:32:40   or a true engineers mindset of like you know all the Linux thing it was possible everyone should be allowed to do it [TS]

00:32:44   it's free and working for all the Apple mindset if it's possible and if we think about it [TS]

00:32:49   and we can't think of a reason to stop it then it should be possible it's oh it's probably true that if you were to [TS]

00:32:55   poll the entire organization the vast majority of the people who work in engineering an apple would say yes that should [TS]

00:33:00   be possible No I would never pull the peek out you know thing for bringing how good today view [TS]

00:33:06   but I'm hesitant to turn it into a vice president versus vice president internal turf war type battle. [TS]

00:33:16   Well yeah that's what I mean. [TS]

00:33:17   I'm careful to say that it's one of the SEALs organizations I mean there's like we don't know if Schiller's involve [TS]

00:33:23   these decisions personally or Federighi is mad about these decisions personally or anything [TS]

00:33:27   but what we what we can clearly see is that these parts of Apple are are not working together correctly like [TS]

00:33:35   and it's so bad it's leaking out that it's publicly visible I mean [TS]

00:33:39   but do you think I don't know I think this is the correct working of engineering and have preview [TS]

00:33:44   and that engineering makes the A.P.I. [TS]

00:33:46   Snap of you decide if the things developers are using them for are allowed our complaint is that after view is making [TS]

00:33:53   decisions that we don't agree with and they conflict with editorial. Yeah I am and I like that I could just. [TS]

00:34:00   To chalk it up to a lack of communication. [TS]

00:34:02   You know what that's a that's a pretty big thing because see [TS]

00:34:04   and this is like this is coming at a particularly bad time for Apple because right now in this time you know late two [TS]

00:34:12   thousand and fourteen the last left always twenty fourteen at the Apple Watch is coming out soon. [TS]

00:34:18   I Pad sales are not that great is harder than ever to make money in the App Store and Android is a massive [TS]

00:34:25   and register released a major update the whole paper thing whatever they call material design all like the Edward five [TS]

00:34:32   oh that's actually getting pretty good reviews from people. [TS]

00:34:35   So what we have is you know Apple is unfortunate all these rules they've been important to us for years [TS]

00:34:41   and then they have this this crazy position of power because there were really no other place to go if you wanted to [TS]

00:34:47   make any reasonable money developing atom and some people make money on Android you know it's possible to [TS]

00:34:53   but it's it's historically been harder you know as as hard you think it is I was to make money it's historically been [TS]

00:34:59   even harder on Android and a lot of things just weren't as good an android. [TS]

00:35:04   But that gap is closing and I'm not sure I ever will close period. [TS]

00:35:08   I don't think the willing time soon but it's a lot smaller than it's ever been before. [TS]

00:35:13   Meanwhile at the exact same time you have this you have the i Pad not doing particularly well you know relative to how [TS]

00:35:20   it was doing. [TS]

00:35:21   You have immense competition in the App Store that drives prices way way down it makes it very hard to make any money [TS]

00:35:28   and you have this new platform. [TS]

00:35:30   The watch that you are expected to develop for in parallel [TS]

00:35:35   and this is combining to make it a tougher sell than it previously has been to be an I O. S. [TS]

00:35:41   Developer you have now more platforms you need to target. [TS]

00:35:45   There's more work for you to do you have to do adaptive layout to make resizable life after that that ever ships like [TS]

00:35:52   we talked about before. So there's more more work to be like a current up to date responsible I was develop. [TS]

00:36:00   There's more more work than there are been before. [TS]

00:36:02   The alternative of Android development is less bad than it used to be relative to I was development [TS]

00:36:09   and you're making less money and I honestly haven't had before. [TS]

00:36:14   This is not a good time for Apple to add more reasons for developers to become disillusioned with the platform. [TS]

00:36:20   This is this is this is strategically a really terrible time for that because Apple needs fantastic developers to do [TS]

00:36:28   two big things forward it needs good developers to push the boundaries to make the i Pad a better general computer [TS]

00:36:34   device than it is and it needs developers to make great apps for this new watch coming out in the spring [TS]

00:36:40   and on some level. [TS]

00:36:41   There's always going to be more developers you can always say well there's more people waiting you know [TS]

00:36:46   when you go to leave more people come in so you can be a fresh batch and like entertainment history [TS]

00:36:49   or you know a lot of mysteries work that way. [TS]

00:36:52   That's true but if you want the best developers making the best apps [TS]

00:36:57   and if you want the boundaries to be pushed if you want you know what Apple said in interviews you see they said a [TS]

00:37:05   number of occasions. [TS]

00:37:06   We can't wait to see what you do with this stuff and then they see what we do with it [TS]

00:37:10   and they tell us you can do half of that as long as you do or they want to do it. [TS]

00:37:15   I mean they need good developers to push the boundaries and to make fantastic software that is sustainable [TS]

00:37:22   and that takes advantage of the platform and the pushes it and makes it useful for people [TS]

00:37:26   and it makes people buy their devices and stick with their ecosystem. [TS]

00:37:30   They need us right now more than their actions say the big things that are in conflict is not that engineers conflict [TS]

00:37:40   with any of the ninth inning parts but it's the broad trends with an apple in the sort of the post jobs there [TS]

00:37:46   or is that in the recent in the recent years especially in this most recent year twenty fourteen engineering [TS]

00:37:53   reorganization which as you know is gone through a lot of growing pains and change of leadership. [TS]

00:37:58   Steve Jobs goes in for a stall go. [TS]

00:38:00   Things are realigning they're new people and Johnny I was out of it [TS]

00:38:03   and all that stuff all that rejiggering has culminated in an engineering organization that like you said Marco [TS]

00:38:10   and I guess [TS]

00:38:10   and my seven year view everything that engineer organization that does things that previously it had refused to do. [TS]

00:38:18   But there have been widely you know desired by their constituent developers and indirectly by their customers. [TS]

00:38:26   That is the overall trend in engineering the last year or so [TS]

00:38:29   and as the result of all the I Have To You have to think it's a result of all these reorganization that whoever was [TS]

00:38:33   opposing this is either not in power not in the company anymore or lost an argument right. [TS]

00:38:38   And now suddenly engineering is doing things that are that are directly beneficial to developers [TS]

00:38:44   and indirectly beneficial so far to customers who fester as one of these things too. [TS]

00:38:49   Whereas after a view has not undergone as far as I know such an organizational change [TS]

00:38:55   and is instead acting the way it has always acted sort of in cycles where a lot of time it's dormant and sleeping [TS]

00:39:02   and then sometimes the bear wakes up and bites you. [TS]

00:39:04   And we had the benefits of that you know it's gone cycles and why why is it awake now. Why sleeping other times. [TS]

00:39:12   Hard to say [TS]

00:39:13   but one thing you can say is it has not undergone the same friends a ration of the engineering organization has gone [TS]

00:39:18   through its apps or is not suddenly letting in things that agree with [TS]

00:39:21   and that it is not suddenly being more reasonable being more transparent and you know explaining itself better. [TS]

00:39:29   Like the only thing you can say for the average organization is that they have cut down on wait times that consistently [TS]

00:39:34   the trend has been you know don't have ridiculous wait times for the things with a few bumps in the road for like [TS]

00:39:40   releases where the mac apps have to be delayed for a reason. [TS]

00:39:43   Usually it's about a week still and it's it's you can you be able to say it's about a week for the last five years. [TS]

00:39:49   Right so I do overall trend like if you look at the entire history the App Store is that they have moved that metric to [TS]

00:39:54   be sort of better in a way the developers like and that indirectly benefits customers which is the same sort of yards. [TS]

00:40:00   There was using an engineer and so it's all the more glaring [TS]

00:40:03   when engineering is suddenly doing things that seem you know that ever orders that are noble [TS]

00:40:08   and doing them in a cautious way doing them good outweigh the making positive progress. [TS]

00:40:13   You know Iowa State is better for developers and Iowa seven was and back and so on [TS]

00:40:17   and so forth whereas average viewer just does not seem to be making any progress [TS]

00:40:21   and I don't I'm not familiar with the internal organization of Africa or that side of the organization. [TS]

00:40:26   But if it has undergone any sort of transformation [TS]

00:40:30   or a change in leadership that is the sort of parallels the engineering one I'm not aware of [TS]

00:40:36   and if it hasn't undergone that then that entire organization looks like it looks to me like a typical corporate [TS]

00:40:41   organization with people who are in power who are stubborn who are wrong and you can't be kind of right [TS]

00:40:47   and you are stuck it's like well I disagree with you [TS]

00:40:49   and I'm your boss the end the other interesting thing to go back just a half step to where the market was saying is [TS]

00:40:56   that not only are developers feeling like we got a little bit of a bait and switch from W.D.C. [TS]

00:41:04   Because I believe Marco you did I know I wrote a blog post on the way back from D.C. [TS]

00:41:09   About how you know we finally got all the things we've been asking for we finally got all the things we wanted [TS]

00:41:14   and you know it's so I don't remember who it was that said it first but it's like Lucy and [TS]

00:41:20   and Charlie Brown with the football you know and so here it is we got all the things we want just getting And [TS]

00:41:26   and so developers are obviously furious. [TS]

00:41:28   But a lot of users that I speak to just regular people who are not developers they're getting more [TS]

00:41:35   and more frustrated with Apple two it started with Apple Maps being crap in Google Maps not being available [TS]

00:41:42   and then it continued to bug the i OS seven that all of a sudden looks different [TS]

00:41:47   and people keep telling me how I was saying it is buggy and to be honest I haven't really had any particular issues. [TS]

00:41:53   But that being said it seems like a lot of people I know who used to be really into the wall. [TS]

00:42:00   Things Apple maybe aren't And and that's a tough place to be in so here it is. [TS]

00:42:06   Apple is the it is in a position where they really shouldn't be pissing off their developers not only for the developer [TS]

00:42:13   sake but also for users. [TS]

00:42:16   Do you see any do you have actual Any non geeky user friends who talk to you about applications I use I like that the [TS]

00:42:22   luster of Apple's on off are you talking about users who knows the transmit can send things to drive any no no no no [TS]

00:42:28   the former where the last year that it how it's always infallible they always were [TS]

00:42:33   but that luster goes in cycles too that's just a typical you know celebrity type build him up tear him down like I [TS]

00:42:38   don't I don't attach anything particular to that because the cycle for that is practically yearly at this point. [TS]

00:42:44   Yearly everybody loves Apple and yearly everybody hates it like it's beginning faster you know. Oh yeah. [TS]

00:42:50   Although you know to be fair one thing that does definitely impact customers is [TS]

00:42:54   when an app is approved with a certain feature they buy it they use that feature [TS]

00:42:57   and then they have to remove that feature because of Apple's policy after the fact that's why I was asking I was asking [TS]

00:43:02   if people if people notice that like do they read the release notes [TS]

00:43:05   or they just get mad at the developers like to blame even land on Apple [TS]

00:43:08   or do people do the type of features they get removed in that way are they below the notice of people because you know [TS]

00:43:15   the feature that was removed from transmit. [TS]

00:43:18   People who use transmitter already probably kind of geeky [TS]

00:43:20   and maybe they really release notes I'm trying to think of it like a mass market example like the Facebook app could do [TS]

00:43:25   something that everybody thought was great and then Apple removed it. [TS]

00:43:28   Maybe that would get some notice but I have I have never heard any person [TS]

00:43:33   or use I.O.'s complain to me that Apple's updates in the future is removed. [TS]

00:43:37   I have but it was not at all because of Apple. [TS]

00:43:40   Everyone I know is furious about you not being able to send messages in the standard Facebook app anymore [TS]

00:43:48   and you have to download a different Facebook Messenger app in order to send messages. [TS]

00:43:52   Now I remember that yes and I was [TS]

00:43:54   and that blame landed on Facebook at all it was Facebook if they decide to split their own stuff out so whatever but. [TS]

00:44:00   Oh yeah I guess they would notice that because that is a that's a sort of cutting application half and into two pieces. [TS]

00:44:07   But for four features that are banned because of apps store rules I don't know. [TS]

00:44:13   Like I mean I just may just be the people I come in contact. Not that big of a deal. [TS]

00:44:18   Like again a lot of these issues are magnified for us because of the circles we travel [TS]

00:44:23   and the apple is in its luster type thing is more likely a tertiary effect of what Barker was talking about where it's [TS]

00:44:30   like Apple needs developers to help drive its platform forward and developers are trying to drive it forward [TS]

00:44:37   and every time they go to you know take a step too far. Apple you know snaps the weapons as well. [TS]

00:44:41   We're not that far but I wanted to make that too useful like what we had to think about for six months or nine months [TS]

00:44:47   or we have something you really really think we could never ever do that so we're never going to let you do that. [TS]

00:44:52   It's like how do you you become gun shy you become you know sort of the many many articles [TS]

00:44:58   and developers expressing their reservations about using new A.P.I. [TS]

00:45:02   It's like even in best case it's just like let's lay out this new A.B.I. [TS]

00:45:06   For a year and see how many people invested it for a year and get there and projected [TS]

00:45:10   and then maybe we'll get the lay of the land and sort of divine with chicken bones and other dice and stuff [TS]

00:45:16   and figure out I think this will probably be OK We'll work on this Vic's month [TS]

00:45:19   and see it like it's making developers more cautious and really they should be blazing their way forward [TS]

00:45:24   and making apps that you know like like this to the you know the apps that Apple hasn't even thought of before. [TS]

00:45:30   Show us your amazing apps it's just like you get the feeling that some Apple executives mind they like make amazing [TS]

00:45:36   apps exactly the way I'm envisioning my mind and I'm not going to tell you about. [TS]

00:45:40   I have a picture in my mind of what an amazing i would be like I'm not going to tell you what the picture is. [TS]

00:45:44   Go make it and if you don't I'm going to reject your app like that's it. [TS]

00:45:47   It's a chilling effect on development [TS]

00:45:49   and so like if if customers are going to notice anything it's going to be this multi-year delayed thing from developers [TS]

00:45:55   being more cautious to use A.P.I. Them and bring out labs. Absolutely. [TS]

00:46:00   I'm without more interesting features [TS]

00:46:01   and all you need is you know I was thinking of him are going to brothers up like what does it take for some of the [TS]

00:46:09   subject or to take some of this I will screw this I'm going to under-developed friend right now. [TS]

00:46:13   They need to be able to make money doing it [TS]

00:46:14   and some structural issues probably need to be sorted out so they become less of a deterrent like for [TS]

00:46:21   and I was developer. [TS]

00:46:22   Even with all the devices that are out there now you have to think fragmentation [TS]

00:46:26   and install base of the most recent version are a huge drag on switching over to Android because you had to wait for so [TS]

00:46:34   long for you know the five point out to be everywhere [TS]

00:46:38   and then you have to deal with so many more devices you had to wait for some sort of consolidation [TS]

00:46:42   but even that is not nearly as bad as it used to be though like they did this crazy thing out of the crease details [TS]

00:46:47   and if you do this crazy thing couple years ago it's our bundling all the A.P.I. [TS]

00:46:51   Is together into the Google Play services which can self update I was thinking like hardware and patients [TS]

00:46:55   and the screen sizes and and C.P.U. and G.P.U. Combinations of again it's a problem for really just games. [TS]

00:47:02   Like for apps it's a lot less of a problem because you stop mattering as much for apps than the games. [TS]

00:47:08   Well I know [TS]

00:47:08   but like the reason I'm not just thinking of games I'm thinking of as in terms of what kind of applications are going [TS]

00:47:13   to going to drive the platform forward and do amazing things and no one ever thought of [TS]

00:47:17   and those are always the ones that push the system [TS]

00:47:19   and it's easier as right now it's easier to make those on I.O.'s because you have a better idea of what you're going to [TS]

00:47:25   be aiming at and the installed base on a more recent version so you can do something amazing in advanced. [TS]

00:47:30   You can make more money doing it and I was and it will be easier. [TS]

00:47:33   What will it take for those people to baling go to Android [TS]

00:47:35   and try to do the same thing because that's what you don't want to happen is someone to come up with a new app idea [TS]

00:47:40   that hasn't existed I think Bit Torrent as an example because like planned bittorrent didn't exist [TS]

00:47:44   and someone came up with that idea and all our phones Russ's terrible idea to kill your battery [TS]

00:47:48   but there were some some time of application that does something that would not be allowed in the App Store. [TS]

00:47:55   But that has a user benefit. Users really like this application and it. [TS]

00:48:00   Application would not be possible I was going to happen to land on Android first [TS]

00:48:03   and everybody's like well I would get an Apple phone but only Android has insert whatever this killer app is. [TS]

00:48:10   That's Apple's worst nightmare. [TS]

00:48:11   Like if Twitter came out today and was only available and your example didn't allow something. [TS]

00:48:16   Didn't know I guess I'm as access some crazy thing that you know whatever you don't want you don't want you you want to [TS]

00:48:22   have that app you want to have like even for something as stupid as flappy bird and even though I'm sure there was [TS]

00:48:26   and I enjoy doing everything right you want to be the platform where the great new thing happens [TS]

00:48:32   and you can't plan for the great new thing and you don't know where it's going to come from [TS]

00:48:35   and you know I was going to make it and you know know when it's going to appear. [TS]

00:48:38   But you do know the more you restrict your platform Dowell higher the chances of the thing will appear only someplace [TS]

00:48:44   else [TS]

00:48:46   when it has a lot to do with also who is using a platform you know like like so many in the chat pointed out it was Hi [TS]

00:48:52   Andy [TS]

00:48:52   and Chad pointed out like you know a lot of times the the gotta have it apps that are only on one platform a lot [TS]

00:49:00   and that's not because of technology limitations it's because the developer happened to use the platform [TS]

00:49:06   or the most early adopters are on that platform and for the most part that platform today is I lesson [TS]

00:49:11   and it has been I us for a while I think since I since the i Phone was launched it's been eyeless [TS]

00:49:16   but that doesn't that's not guaranteed to always be the case. [TS]

00:49:20   Like Instagram launching I was first because that's what you did in two thousand and ten [TS]

00:49:24   or whenever it launched today I don't think anything would launch Android first [TS]

00:49:30   but it would be increasingly difficult for service to get really big [TS]

00:49:34   and B i Phone only today because the expectation is patient gets higher every year that you should be on both of those [TS]

00:49:40   platforms the same time I would you know I'm still finding I wasn't because I'm just one guy on much ranting over the [TS]

00:49:45   world and make a billion dollars from Facebook stock but I can't I couldn't recommend to like a big V.C. [TS]

00:49:51   Back company want explosive growth I couldn't recommend to them that you go I only necessarily I think I think there's [TS]

00:49:58   plenty that I have both and it's only an hour. [TS]

00:50:00   Our time once you once you once you reach this point where we can say well you know you really should be looking at [TS]

00:50:05   those platforms it's only a matter of time before something big happens on Android first [TS]

00:50:12   and I don't think we're near that point yet I think we're still a few years off from that being very likely [TS]

00:50:17   but the direction we're going that will eventually happen and I don't think Apple really cares about that [TS]

00:50:24   or I don't I think they're in denial or I think they you know they don't think it will happen [TS]

00:50:29   or they don't think it will be very important and I think they're wrong on both of those they're making assumptions. [TS]

00:50:35   Well the other thing Apple has going for in that area [TS]

00:50:37   and it seems to be the strategies of our as you know kind of a game console analogy is that it got so out of consuls [TS]

00:50:43   like how annoying your platform is one. [TS]

00:50:47   One lever the one they can always turn is well just sell of the zillion for you know I was hardware devices right [TS]

00:50:53   because if we sell we need to keep selling those because if we don't all of those will be like Windows Phone [TS]

00:50:58   and Omega for us [TS]

00:50:59   and we just need to maintain some kind of within some kind of striking distance of Android's market share so that [TS]

00:51:06   doesn't become that big of a deal because if Apple had fifteen percent market share wouldn't matter how awesome their [TS]

00:51:11   platform is one matter how permissive there are pretty good rules are they would be like Windows Phone. [TS]

00:51:15   Do I get a nice whatever you have some good developers you make some good apps but it's not enough. [TS]

00:51:19   So they need to make good hardware and so a lot of it [TS]

00:51:22   and so far they've been doing pretty good on that so it's giving them giving them the room to to screw up an app [TS]

00:51:29   or view without as many consequences because just like well you know like it with Android no matter how annoying it is [TS]

00:51:35   and it has a massive market share that if you are going to be a one of the biggest companies in the world you have to [TS]

00:51:40   address it because it didn't matter how Banner [TS]

00:51:43   and if you just have to it's like the more they have to market you've got to you got to go do it. [TS]

00:51:47   Android is all apples only contender because it's got a lot of market share a big market share [TS]

00:51:53   and it's perceived as being better and having customers who are more willing to spend money and sort of work. [TS]

00:52:00   Pavel definitely has a larger share of the of the most desirable customers for most people right now [TS]

00:52:04   and they have for a while but I think I think the percentage share of that goes down every year for Apple. [TS]

00:52:11   I don't know that for sure I'm just guessing and I still think they have a pretty healthy lead [TS]

00:52:15   but again it's like if you look at at the at the sum of all of this of why somebody would develop for us only or first. [TS]

00:52:24   There used to be a lot of very strong reasons. There were a bunch of apps out there. [TS]

00:52:28   There were a bunch of it like that this is where people look to get apps. [TS]

00:52:32   There was a bunch of money to be made potentially all the early adopters uses platform. [TS]

00:52:37   You personally use this platform you like this platform. [TS]

00:52:40   There are so many great things you can do only on this platform or easiest on this platform. [TS]

00:52:44   All those advantages or these motors of any distil exist today. All of them are weaker though than they used to be. [TS]

00:52:52   Every time Apple does it you know a chilling effect kind of thing we got that preview. [TS]

00:52:57   It just it drops that barrier lower and lower and lower [TS]

00:53:02   and again it's a slow progression not an you know no single one of these factors is like totally collapsing suddenly [TS]

00:53:09   they're all just lowering slowly over time [TS]

00:53:12   and I just I fear that Apple is going to catch Apple by surprise if one data starts to be some spill over [TS]

00:53:19   and an apple just misses it or they didn't see it coming or. [TS]

00:53:25   And then And then what happened after that like what happens [TS]

00:53:27   when a few prominent I was developers really do switch to Android [TS]

00:53:31   and really start making really good stuff I enjoyed [TS]

00:53:33   and not a nihilist I don't think we're very far from far away from that happening. [TS]

00:53:37   I think that's to happen this coming year and and I don't know what happened after that [TS]

00:53:42   but I think the barriers that Apple built around itself are substantially lower [TS]

00:53:48   and weaker than I think Apple thinks they are. [TS]

00:53:51   You think in the next year some on prom and developers are going to bail. Definitely. Yeah like who I don't think so. [TS]

00:54:00   I mean I think with the watch coming there's a lot that's a lot of the strike people are very you know that what would [TS]

00:54:05   that happen with the i Pad I remember like when ready for the i Pad came out was when the Nexus One came out [TS]

00:54:11   and a whole bunch eyeless developers were like oh man the Nexus One it's kind of interesting [TS]

00:54:16   and Google sent a bunch of them for free upset a lot of people including me I should disclose after the I wonder if I [TS]

00:54:22   should make a stripper's Web site work better on this maybe eventually I make an app for it someday and then Apple [TS]

00:54:27   and see I've had like a month later and then we all get attractive but I've had it for three years. [TS]

00:54:33   That might happen with the watch. [TS]

00:54:34   Maybe Apple's banking on that may be Apple's assuming that will happen with the watch. I'm not entirely sure it will. [TS]

00:54:41   I think first of all you know watch kit in year one is going to be pretty limited in what you can even do with it [TS]

00:54:47   and what kind of ads even make sense to have a watch App Not to mention if you think Apple is being you know [TS]

00:54:54   controlling and arbitrary [TS]

00:54:56   and capricious with the App Store rules with today widgets you haven't seen anything yet is we to watch comes out [TS]

00:55:02   and they start denying apps for that for things that we consider invalid or stupid reasons [TS]

00:55:07   or they start enforcing inconsistent rules for that. [TS]

00:55:10   Believe me there's going to be a lot of that going on it's like I'm I'm actually honestly a little [TS]

00:55:16   and there's nothing to I think a lot of developers are going to us in conclusion [TS]

00:55:20   and you know they're going to see the stuff that Apple's pulling now with with the Iowa State things [TS]

00:55:25   and say which isn't enough [TS]

00:55:26   and they get a look at this newest became the I would watch him like well should I really spend the next three months [TS]

00:55:31   developing a watch kit thing or should I just wait [TS]

00:55:34   and see how the market shakes out because we're going to see a whole bunch of app review B.S. [TS]

00:55:39   Next spring when this comes out we're going to see a lot of active U.B.S. [TS]

00:55:43   Over the first few months but [TS]

00:55:45   when the watch first comes out those big old wrestling he said with the i Pad if you're one of the first chapter [TS]

00:55:49   vailable does X. [TS]

00:55:50   On the watch you get massive massive leg up on everybody else you always want to be there [TS]

00:55:55   when your device about a new category of device like the i Pad like the i Phone. [TS]

00:56:00   So I don't think that's going to sway maybe it'll who think they have a shot at being there and knowledge maybe but [TS]

00:56:05   but but again though there's also there's not a whole lot you can do with the watch caps quite yet. [TS]

00:56:11   It doesn't matter you can charge ninety nine cents for your app that is watch integration [TS]

00:56:15   and you get ninety nine cents or numbing sixty nine point nine. [TS]

00:56:19   Well it's it's not really the country either right because you need to have a standalone app first in order to have a [TS]

00:56:26   watch Kid app in presumably many of the watch Kid apps will be built upon standalone apps that presumably you've [TS]

00:56:33   already paid for [TS]

00:56:34   and most people are tweeting too I don't know in any case let's talk about something else that's really cool. [TS]

00:56:39   It's back please. [TS]

00:56:40   We are sponsored once again by Bakley our friends that are in the online backup business now let me tell you about [TS]

00:56:45   online backup. You need this. Your family needs this. Everyone you know needs this case you need this. [TS]

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00:56:53   Let me tell you you need online backup it's amazing because there are so many catastrophes minor disasters problems [TS]

00:56:59   that can happen that can take out your data on your computer [TS]

00:57:02   and any for any drives that are physically connected to it or the or the any drives that are in your house with it. [TS]

00:57:08   Things like fires floods power surges theft all sorts of problems that can happen that would take out your data with [TS]

00:57:16   even just like human error sometimes like that's you know there's there's a lot of human error you can do if your [TS]

00:57:20   backup is a RAID array or you're so screwed member rate is not a backup anyway. [TS]

00:57:26   So you want online backup trust me [TS]

00:57:29   when you go if you're visiting your family this holiday season if you see you know your parent or grandparent [TS]

00:57:35   or siblings computer without online backup give them the gift of installing back plays for them. [TS]

00:57:40   So I went back it was really really important to use junk words if you don't have it you're not you should really [TS]

00:57:47   really get on my back and Bakley is by far the best one that I have tried [TS]

00:57:52   and I have used it long before they were a sponsor of the show of using it for years I have tried two other ones. [TS]

00:58:00   Only and was very disappointed in both of them. From a network drive need Believe me back please is the one you want. [TS]

00:58:08   That place is unlimited and unthroned old and you get it for just five bucks a month. [TS]

00:58:13   So literally this unlimited disk space you know what or how much you have to combine between me [TS]

00:58:17   and tiff I think we have something like six terabytes now in back with a lot of unlimited disk space. [TS]

00:58:23   Five bucks per month per computer. Bakley was amazing there. [TS]

00:58:26   I was an Android apps to access [TS]

00:58:28   and share all your backup files so you can access your files on the go you can do single file restores if you want if [TS]

00:58:34   you're like on a laptop and you forgot a file at home [TS]

00:58:37   and you're on vacation somewhere you can get your files that way that plays runs natively on your mac. [TS]

00:58:42   It is not like a weird Java aberrated thing it's a native MacO S ten app founded by X. [TS]

00:58:47   Apple engineers when they have a new MacMini when you seventy. [TS]

00:58:52   They're always up to date with newest releases I've never had that please break on me with an upgrade. [TS]

00:58:57   There's no add ons no gimmicks there's no extra charge is really five bucks a month for unlimited on throttled fully [TS]

00:59:02   native online backup for the Mac. [TS]

00:59:05   It really is the simplest on back a program to use just install and it does the rest so really this holiday season. [TS]

00:59:11   Build your love ones install back please. Someday they will thank you for that. [TS]

00:59:15   Maybe not immediately begin to wonder what you're doing immediately. Someday they will thank you for that. [TS]

00:59:19   Thanks a lot aback lasers once on our show once again. [TS]

00:59:22   Write any other thoughts on the apps store stuff before we move along. [TS]

00:59:26   There's always a it's like fall over that there's always going to be thoughts on the never ending pit of thoughts. [TS]

00:59:32   My final thought I think is that it's within Apple's power [TS]

00:59:37   and they have done it before to smooth over the worst of these misfires by talking directly to the affected developers [TS]

00:59:44   until they're roughly satisfied and that is simultaneously the best [TS]

00:59:49   and the worst thing that can happen is the best thing then that people come out of it happy. [TS]

00:59:54   We get the features we want to be Thursday everyone comes to have a prize of room walks away satisfied. [TS]

00:59:58   The worst thing that happened. [TS]

01:00:00   It doesn't address the structural problem which causes these bear attack flare ups from average you [TS]

01:00:05   and has for years [TS]

01:00:06   and years so I don't know if we should just be hoping for a larger crisis which will become a crisis unity for us too [TS]

01:00:13   for for Apple to actually fix the problems that I know it [TS]

01:00:16   or we should be hoping for just for the the bad decisions to be averse and to go back to sleeping bear. [TS]

01:00:23   Yeah mostly I mean I don't know it's just it seems like such a silly problem to have but whatever. [TS]

01:00:30   For speaking of silly problems to have Let's talk about time commitments and I wanted to talk about a couple things. [TS]

01:00:38   First is fastest is not for sale anymore. What I pulled today. There goes your M three an hour right. [TS]

01:00:46   Tens of people a day are going to disappointed by this not be a good day. [TS]

01:00:51   Now I pulled it for a handful of reasons and there's a point here but it's going to take me a second to get there. [TS]

01:00:57   I pulled it because ACA hire. Yeah that's totally it. [TS]

01:01:03   I pulled it because I feel like I'm kind of kidding myself in thinking that I'm going to find the time to get it [TS]

01:01:16   updated for I was seven and given that we're already months into Iowa say that's kind of getting ridiculous. [TS]

01:01:24   I'm getting to the point that I'm feeling guilty every time I do see a sales day of more than zero which is most days [TS]

01:01:30   although it if it's more than five I'm doing a happy dance. [TS]

01:01:34   I'm getting guilt or I'm feeling guilty about selling someone something that's so dated [TS]

01:01:40   and knowing deep down in my heart of hearts that the likelihood of me updating it is not good. [TS]

01:01:47   And as John seemed in the chat I'm really getting over that being a joke now [TS]

01:01:55   and to be honest it deserves to be a joke it is kind of ridiculously funny and it's. [TS]

01:02:00   Certain that we are on i OS eight and I have not yet updated for i OS seven [TS]

01:02:05   but in the end of the day it occurred to me that it's really serving no good purpose it served its purpose which was [TS]

01:02:12   for me to prove to myself that I could get something in the App Store and I did [TS]

01:02:16   and I'm still proud of that accomplishment. [TS]

01:02:19   But I'm no longer really proud of the way the app is today [TS]

01:02:23   and it's a little better on my phone because I've updated most of the issues for i OS seven and eight. [TS]

01:02:29   I saw the couple lingering bugs that I haven't had time to look at but and I was talking Aaron about it earlier today. [TS]

01:02:36   I don't I can't imagine a time when I'm going to look at her and now we're getting little into analog territory [TS]

01:02:42   but I can imagine a time when the look at her and say you know what rather than spending time with you [TS]

01:02:46   and Declan let me go and hole myself up in the office and fight with auto [TS]

01:02:50   and that is that is a bar that you can apply to all of anything else in life [TS]

01:02:54   and decide that it's something you shouldn't do. But anyway why not just leave it there and be free. [TS]

01:02:59   I could but then it's still it's still going to be oh how are you still been updated to yet [TS]

01:03:05   and I'm just I'm over that because it's true and ridiculous like I'm grumpy about it I think because I know it's true. [TS]

01:03:13   Like if it was like the good health K.C. [TS]

01:03:14   Joke I still find that kind of funny because it's so hopefully not really true anymore. And so I've gotten past it. [TS]

01:03:22   You're more famous than I was now on about that but anyway. But but in this case it is true and and that's just it. [TS]

01:03:32   I'm feeling super guilty about it. [TS]

01:03:34   Have you done a lot of open source development or contributing to open source projects. [TS]

01:03:38   Not really I mean I have camel out on the on good hub which I actually want to talk about as well. [TS]

01:03:44   But in terms of contributing to like massive open source projects I haven't. [TS]

01:03:48   Mostly because the couple times I have been pigeon is an example which is the multi protocol I am client [TS]

01:03:57   or library if nothing else this is a library that. Runs E.D.M. [TS]

01:04:00   Addy [TS]

01:04:01   and whatever you call it on the A D M We had that on the mac isn't the name of the Live Earth that was lit purple the [TS]

01:04:08   dame librarian pigeon as the client. You are correct it's purple and pigeon is the client you're absolutely right. [TS]

01:04:14   Anyways I looked into contributing to. I actually may not have even been lip purple it might have been A.T.M. [TS]

01:04:21   and I started looking at this code and went I have no idea what the hell's going on here [TS]

01:04:26   and I found that in a couple of open source projects I briefly considered contributing to the code was so crazy complex [TS]

01:04:35   that and I feel like I'm pretty good at what I do but it was so esoteric [TS]

01:04:40   and wild that I realized it was not even worth jumping in [TS]

01:04:45   and so I have in short I haven't really contributed to any established open source projects now I bring that up because [TS]

01:04:52   in the end this implied time commitment of open source projects was the subheading here on this topic what I was [TS]

01:04:58   thinking of is my open source project that I started myself or published some are attributed to that I did years [TS]

01:05:07   and years ago and most of them are all still out there and they're far worse off than fast X. Believe me. [TS]

01:05:14   Barf I like things that I haven't worked on in a decade or more [TS]

01:05:19   and were never very good because they were written by you know the much younger version of myself right. [TS]

01:05:26   And I mean very I'm going to time go and things like that. [TS]

01:05:30   There's code out there with my name on it is terrible that I'm embarrassed by [TS]

01:05:33   but I don't pull it because it's like that's sort of part of the open source thing is like I write the source code. [TS]

01:05:38   I put it up there and it's free for anyone to grab and use and my working on it. [TS]

01:05:44   No and by adding features now my fixing bugs. [TS]

01:05:47   That's a bigger discussion but it's it's super low priority [TS]

01:05:52   but it would never occur to me to take it down even you know [TS]

01:05:56   and maybe it's like Katie said manner of distance from either. [TS]

01:06:00   Like this who is going where it's not true [TS]

01:06:02   or you know you you feel these complaints are founded of someone complained to me that the one of my C.P.M. [TS]

01:06:09   Model has a piece of crap. [TS]

01:06:10   I would agree with them as cases seems to agree that fast sex you know is out of date at this point. [TS]

01:06:16   But it wouldn't drive me to put I would like. [TS]

01:06:20   I don't think I have [TS]

01:06:22   and I don't think there is an implied commitment for me to continue to maintain for free in this open source code that [TS]

01:06:29   I wrote in one thousand nine hundred seventy. [TS]

01:06:31   I mean a lot to be fair the context a different of having an app in the App Store versus having a supermodel available [TS]

01:06:37   they don't but if it's free even if it's for charge I understand that as you try to feel many feel bad about that [TS]

01:06:41   but if it's free then you know it's exactly like the open source code [TS]

01:06:46   and the sense of like well you know whatever you get what you paid for you didn't like it was a crappy Abdoulaye [TS]

01:06:50   different from you didn't pay a dime for it right. [TS]

01:06:52   If you don't like the software that's going to you downloaded and deleted her desk. [TS]

01:06:56   Fine you know it's it's the same type of thing [TS]

01:06:59   and the reason is that he was pulling it is because he felt he felt bad or guilty [TS]

01:07:04   when people would complain to the apples [TS]

01:07:05   and updated it's like yeah that's not updated I'm not doing fast acting anymore [TS]

01:07:09   but that's techs that I didn't do was there. [TS]

01:07:11   If it stops working and I was then yeah pull it or market is only work [TS]

01:07:16   and older alike eventually will age out if you don't modify it right. [TS]

01:07:19   Unlike most open source software because Unix never changes like it will continue to work right. [TS]

01:07:24   Or if a dozen people to stop complaining about it. [TS]

01:07:25   But anyway that's how I feel about my older projects is that I feel the same way K.T. [TS]

01:07:32   Does in Paris by the members by their being not being updated you know and I feel the same way about future. [TS]

01:07:39   Putting more time into it am I going to know because I have many other things that I'm doing in my time these days [TS]

01:07:44   but I but my decision given all those things is not to pull but just to leave it there. [TS]

01:07:49   Festering I guess I mean nothing like I totally get this I mean I went through some of the same things with buckshot [TS]

01:07:58   bugs does not work. On the new i Phones for some reason and I don't even know why I never listen to the. [TS]

01:08:06   I have spent five minutes on it could be a five minute fix I don't know the reason why it doesn't work is less [TS]

01:08:12   important than the reason why I'm not working on it which is that it made no money. [TS]

01:08:17   Basically no money made I think thirty five hundred dollars. The vast majority of which was the very first. [TS]

01:08:26   That's no money all year Dorval now. [TS]

01:08:28   Well MUCH MUCH MONEY FAST tax is made I don't think I have if I don't but I when there are dollars I will do [TS]

01:08:37   and you do but I don't have the numbers in front of me so I don't want to lie [TS]

01:08:41   but I am extraordinarily confident it's less than a thousand dollars and I'm pretty confident it was at [TS]

01:08:48   or less than five hundred over the course of I think four years it's been in the store. [TS]

01:08:53   OK well I feel like a jerk but it made a hole it made that amount of money up front [TS]

01:09:00   and then it just stopped making money like it was bet it was down to [TS]

01:09:04   and I remember there was even a brief time we were comparing buckshot to fast and they were fairly comparable. [TS]

01:09:10   So like you know it had a good month and then it was over so that the fact is that it didn't work [TS]

01:09:16   and I was eight on the new devices and what are C.E.O.'s of devices I don't even know. [TS]

01:09:21   It wasn't even worth spending fifteen minutes on because if I'm going to make bug shot continue as a product I want to [TS]

01:09:28   do a proper update to it for I was eight. [TS]

01:09:31   Which would mean a full photo library integration so that you could for instance ante to screen shot [TS]

01:09:37   and then delete it from your camera which you can't do in the current version if you couldn't do that you'll have to [TS]

01:09:41   get things like be an extension so you could be you know that they have the photo editing extension type. [TS]

01:09:46   Why isn't bug shot a photo editing extension so I will want to do that too I would want to make it look up a proper [TS]

01:09:53   updated app if I'm to keep it in the store and keep working and keep it running as a product and the fact is it just. [TS]

01:10:00   Doesn't make enough money. It never made enough money to make that really worth doing. [TS]

01:10:05   And so [TS]

01:10:06   when I look at how I want to spend this time which is what you were saying to me about you we look at like how do I [TS]

01:10:12   want to spend the evening of coding fixing bugs shot [TS]

01:10:17   but should really be you know at least a couple of weeks according to really do what I would want with it. [TS]

01:10:21   So you know do I want to spend the next two weeks of coding time fixing bugs shot [TS]

01:10:25   or improving overcast which is making money and which is you know seemingly a more deserving source of my time. [TS]

01:10:32   Or if if I'm throwing around to you coding time show even try a whole different at maybe some creative thing for the [TS]

01:10:38   watch. You know I'm sure I try to hold whole new product to give that a chance to succeed. [TS]

01:10:43   So I made the decision it was not worth me putting any more time into it I didn't want to put any more time into it [TS]

01:10:49   because it simply wasn't interesting and it wasn't going to pay off and the things I wanted to do with it. [TS]

01:10:57   We're never going to be worth doing with it. [TS]

01:10:59   And so for Kinser Casey first of all I feel like a jerk for ever making fun of you now. [TS]

01:11:04   Second of all but it was deserved or well deserved baby a poor choice of words [TS]

01:11:09   but it was accurate it was I mean it was meant to be insulting and meant to be funny you know. [TS]

01:11:13   But so now it's OK jerk I'm sorry but I don't feel bad. [TS]

01:11:16   But I totally understand what you're saying which is like you can't forsee a time where you're going to choose to spend [TS]

01:11:23   your time doing that instead of anything else with your work or family and I get that. [TS]

01:11:29   I totally get that like if that's your reason I totally support it because I've made the same kind of decision that I [TS]

01:11:36   think you should be making the GOING TO did you publish or is it free. [TS]

01:11:41   I pulled it I made it free a few months after at least when it was [TS]

01:11:45   when it was clear maybe six months after it became very clear after a while it was making like between zero [TS]

01:11:51   and three sales a day even at a dollar it was doing very badly. [TS]

01:11:56   And and so I that's I'm just going to linger for why I did. You pull it after it was free. It's not working. [TS]

01:12:02   Also there you know that's the mark Australia endorse Maybe [TS]

01:12:06   when I stopped working poet because then you because then you're basically you're not putting more time into a bit like [TS]

01:12:11   some of my bugs are just because Mark was not interested in putting in time [TS]

01:12:13   and doesn't make it all of them not a useful application especially for the poor like someone saying you know this idea [TS]

01:12:19   of when your app [TS]

01:12:20   when you're not going to put in more time you have to leave you know on the stories for years Bagley clutters a store. [TS]

01:12:24   No that's exactly the kind of clutter I want when I'm looking for an app and like I just want something quick and free. [TS]

01:12:30   I wanted to be an app that a good developer has abandoned maybe it's not the best that maybe it's an I was six [TS]

01:12:35   but it's not going to feel bad is actually going to do something useful not to be filled with you know spammy reviews [TS]

01:12:40   that somebody paid for I would love to stumble upon bugs shot as a free screenshot annotation app that I needed in a [TS]

01:12:45   pinch than something on the eight thousand other three apps which are probably not even screen chaps at all [TS]

01:12:50   but some kind of like secret portal to you know some sort of online gambling thing or something who knows. [TS]

01:12:58   So I have I would say that you should consider putting fast text back it's very intense not to work in that point don't [TS]

01:13:06   put any more time into you don't want to but if someone is looking for an app that does a fast test text does [TS]

01:13:11   and they stumble upon past X. [TS]

01:13:13   It's not there [TS]

01:13:13   but that's not filled with now where they'll download it for free will do what it does if they don't like the deleted [TS]

01:13:18   fine like I think you know you did put work into it does do something it is functional. [TS]

01:13:24   Why not let people benefit from it even though you may feel bad about not updating or whatever [TS]

01:13:30   but I don't you know I wouldn't spend time feeling bad about that because you're just making a choice about what to do [TS]

01:13:34   with your time. [TS]

01:13:35   So one of the reasons is I feel like it's calling attention to something that isn't my best work which I know you [TS]

01:13:42   talked about as you see Pan modules but I don't know I just gotten older [TS]

01:13:49   and as I've gotten to be some kind of internet persona I take a lot of pride in. [TS]

01:14:00   Things that I put out into the Internet and [TS]

01:14:03   and well camel for example the blogging software that I wrote the powers case whois dot com It's not terribly great [TS]

01:14:11   code but it's not terribly bad code and it works. [TS]

01:14:16   And honestly I'm pretty proud of my website [TS]

01:14:19   and maybe some people read it maybe they don't maybe some listeners will read it and be like why is he proud of this [TS]

01:14:25   and that's OK I mean if you don't get it that doesn't matter to me because I'm proud of it [TS]

01:14:29   and I'm not proud of fast text anymore and but the thing don't you think that's the way it should be. [TS]

01:14:33   I've always considered it a badge of honor a desirable trait that if you are a programmer you should always look back [TS]

01:14:42   at the code you wrote in the past and think it's bad because if you don't that means you're not getting any better. [TS]

01:14:46   So if you look at the code your last year you should find problems with it now that you didn't find then if you look at [TS]

01:14:51   the code that you wrote five years ago it should look disgusting it was ten years ago to look like nonsense [TS]

01:14:57   and you can't even believe you are the same person who wrote it like that should be true for the life of a working [TS]

01:15:02   program so the fact that you are no longer proud of FESTAC as a product as a as a pilot source code as a whatever shows [TS]

01:15:09   that you are making progress that if you were to make it now you would do it better you would see things in it now that [TS]

01:15:14   that are you know that are more wrong or they could be done. [TS]

01:15:17   You know me like that I don't think that should dissuade you like and yes is not your best work. [TS]

01:15:21   Yes it's bad that someone might google your name and someone across this thing [TS]

01:15:25   and not see the date on it unlike him ascending with the pen model someone stumbles across you know as my largest giant [TS]

01:15:31   pile of public Procardia look at it it's all crap and decide that I'm a programmer. [TS]

01:15:35   That's like I guess I'm willing to take that risk that they don't see the dates and [TS]

01:15:39   or whatever especially since it was all the topic they can get to [TS]

01:15:43   and a bit of Especially since I am still actually maintaining that code unlike your deciding not to maintain fast X. [TS]

01:15:49   but I don't think you should feel bad about just because you're not proud of it I think I think all of your [TS]

01:15:53   applications all your endeavors. You should look back on and say that is no longer up to my. [TS]

01:16:00   Standards and I do and I mean I was. [TS]

01:16:03   Here's the comedy of all this how I know I made the right call as I had like half an hour to fiddle around tonight [TS]

01:16:10   and I ended up adding a feature to camel rather than futzing with fast text [TS]

01:16:16   and so that's how I knew that I probably made the right call but. [TS]

01:16:21   I agree with you and and even as I was looking at camel Earlier tonight I looked at it [TS]

01:16:26   and thought Oh God I should really refactor like half of this [TS]

01:16:29   but I feel like with fast text it's sort of advertising that I'm not good at what I'm sort of supposed to be good at to [TS]

01:16:42   be a part of the show. [TS]

01:16:43   Same thing as my theory then modules about Perl code of mine can you see you can see old code that's bad code can't you [TS]

01:16:48   see all the code are right for my employers I think it's a little different to me I find it a little different though [TS]

01:16:55   because your perl code does not directly relate to the things you're known for on the Internet it's not like you're I [TS]

01:17:03   mean the best analogy I can think of is like old crappy system seven reviews that are still out on which I know you [TS]

01:17:09   never wrote but just hypothetically don't know if you if you want to go for that. My old O S ten or views are terrible. [TS]

01:17:15   The writing is terrible I cannot even look at them I just know I've said this before [TS]

01:17:20   and it I don't know why I'm the only person internet pointing this out because it's the worst they have ever say [TS]

01:17:24   but people want to know if I use smileys in some of them old clothes around here in the middle of the text. [TS]

01:17:33   Do you understand that. [TS]

01:17:35   That's and that's what I'm known for his tender views and they're out there [TS]

01:17:38   and the writing is terrible the content is terrible and it's just one I don't want to think about [TS]

01:17:44   but am I going to pull those reviews you know that you can really special editions that have all the crap removed at a [TS]

01:17:48   much new crap out of people keep asking for you know a collection of them [TS]

01:17:54   and I'm like that would mean that I would have to make hard decisions about you know I'd like to look at special. [TS]

01:18:00   Take out the Smileys like what order of the line. [TS]

01:18:03   Queen of the mat line in the dust and scratches the smile is counted out lines I think oh goodness. [TS]

01:18:10   So I mean I understand your point and to me it just seems it seems different probably because it's me and not you. [TS]

01:18:19   I just look at it differently but I understand your point about making a free [TS]

01:18:23   and that's actually something I hadn't really thought about [TS]

01:18:26   and maybe I'll do that maybe maybe I want to I don't know [TS]

01:18:29   but I just I feel like I feel like it calls attention to something I guess that what I'm trying to say to the C.P.M. [TS]

01:18:36   Modules you have to kind of seek out. [TS]

01:18:39   Whereas I think if I were a random person looking at looking to figure out who the three of us are you know for you [TS]

01:18:47   they would find your O S ten reviews which granted the older ones may not be great [TS]

01:18:51   but the newer ones are just freakin phenomenal and for Marco they'll find a laundry list of successful applications [TS]

01:18:58   and projects and Business Insider blog posts. Well there's that too. [TS]

01:19:02   But but but for me I don't want someone to stumble upon fast text and judge me based on that [TS]

01:19:11   and I guess in summary maybe just plain pride but I don't know I just I felt like the right answer was to pull it. [TS]

01:19:17   I got bad as you can see him [TS]

01:19:20   and several years you're going to say the same thing about the podcast we're recording right now are not enough. [TS]

01:19:29   That's very true that's very true. I mean that like this is true of everything like that. [TS]

01:19:34   If you're getting better at things which most of us do continue to get better things as as we get older. [TS]

01:19:39   Especially things not having to do with the calorie. [TS]

01:19:43   You will look back on what you've done previously even if it's the thing you're most known for [TS]

01:19:48   and think it is not up to your standards and that you could do better now [TS]

01:19:51   or find things wrong with it that you didn't find wrong with a now I think you should be proud of fast X. [TS]

01:19:55   If I had an app on the App Store I will leave it there until it broke. I think making it go. [TS]

01:20:00   Free is entirely understandable [TS]

01:20:02   but I would definitely believe I lived out there just just sort of like prove to the world that like you said I did [TS]

01:20:10   make an iris up once and it does work and did do things and here it is and maybe you just change how you refer to it [TS]

01:20:16   and sort of your on line resume like in my little section on my website. [TS]

01:20:20   Like retired podcast podcast that I'm no longer doing right now that you should feel better as you do [TS]

01:20:27   but you know you gotta do what you gotta do I also think you should put food on the I can protect her dead [TS]

01:20:33   and then sell it for you. [TS]

01:20:36   Fascitis sure if you can get me more than twenty bucks out South America really reversal here in hundreds to buy [TS]

01:20:42   something instead of selling it. Yeah right. [TS]

01:20:45   Well why don't you tell us Marco about something that awesome [TS]

01:20:47   and then I'd like to talk a little bit about like what John was referring to earlier which is the implied time [TS]

01:20:54   commitment of open source projects which is a kind a different animal. [TS]

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01:22:03   All right from your phone even it doesn't support Flash or Java or anything like that it's all H.T.M.L. Five. [TS]

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01:22:36   and customer experience. [TS]

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01:22:41   or old core of technology you definitely should give it Lou try the really cool fantastic Internet really an entrant [TS]

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01:23:01   and a very reasonably priced after that really free for up ten people. Humans will do it there's no downside.. [TS]

01:23:06   Go try it free for up to ten people go to the Software dot com slash A.T.P. Thanks a lot. [TS]

01:23:13   So the other thing I want to talk about is the implied time commitments of open source software [TS]

01:23:21   and I first became affected by this when I open source camel which again is the no J.S. [TS]

01:23:29   Based blogging platform that I use to power my website [TS]

01:23:33   and I got enough attention from it that a handful of people had forked it and had issued poll requests and [TS]

01:23:43   or made various comments on good hug [TS]

01:23:45   and I noticed that a lot of times I just didn't have the time to handle these any timely manner [TS]

01:23:55   and apparently I'm trying to squeeze more time in a sense thirty four times anyway. [TS]

01:24:01   Now Anyhow occasionally there were there were instances where people would issue a pull request wait a day or two [TS]

01:24:10   and then like poll or rescind the poll request saying oh I guess you didn't like this. Those people are jerks. [TS]

01:24:17   Well kind a Yeah but at the same time I feel or felt especially when there was a little more activity. [TS]

01:24:26   A couple months back a few months back I felt this like overwhelming burden put on me to get through these poll [TS]

01:24:34   requests in a timely manner and I probably shouldn't have and this comes back to what John was saying earlier. [TS]

01:24:42   But nevertheless I felt huge amounts of guilt [TS]

01:24:45   and this burden because I wasn't getting through these poll requests quickly enough [TS]

01:24:50   and it was something I totally did not expect [TS]

01:24:53   and it's a wonderful wonderful thing in that people care enough to be issuing these poll requests [TS]

01:24:59   but at the same time I was not prepared for I kind of thought in my head that I was going to just throw it out into the [TS]

01:25:08   Internet and then kind of walk away never look back and turns out that's not really the case. [TS]

01:25:14   Yeah so but the thing that I'm struggling with a similar only over a longer timeline [TS]

01:25:18   and now you can tell me what you think I should do about this so I really see by [TS]

01:25:23   and see Ben models out there most of them nobody uses anymore which is kind of the ideal that Casey was looking for. [TS]

01:25:27   Like you throw it out there and you know and no one looks at it again [TS]

01:25:33   and I have some like my first one actually from the ninety's probably doesn't work anymore. [TS]

01:25:37   But no one downloaded to nobody knows that so it's fine but I do have a couple that people are still using [TS]

01:25:43   and what you did back in the day and what you probably still do today when you go to see them much will became popular. [TS]

01:25:48   If you made a website for a Dios of the source code somewhere where people could you know where you had a bug tracker. [TS]

01:25:53   You put it in version control you gave commit bits of the diary for people you want to contribute to the project you [TS]

01:25:58   started a mailing list. And like you just you built up this ecosystem around us pretty good. [TS]

01:26:04   Yeah well this is the way to her get her like this before a source for chocolates [TS]

01:26:08   or sword he was like wow this whole web site does all the stuff for you. [TS]

01:26:11   So one of the actual time commitments of having an open source project like this is that I have had to move those [TS]

01:26:22   things to new places and the old places go away or become crappy like source for chess right. [TS]

01:26:27   So I move in source or to code I'll probably move from google code to get hub move version control from C.V.S. [TS]

01:26:33   To some version now I'm starting to show my age here from some version to get which I probably will do eventually. [TS]

01:26:43   And those are things it's like at the time you have those decisions. Well I could just leave it there for ever. [TS]

01:26:49   But maybe the mountain is broke or maybe something's not working or maybe nobody uses C.V.S. Anymore. [TS]

01:26:55   So do I not put any more time in and just you know like remove it from the Internet or just like let it die [TS]

01:27:02   or do I put in a day or two to move these things [TS]

01:27:06   and historically have decided that it's worth putting in the time to do these conversions [TS]

01:27:11   and to move the stuff around or whatever [TS]

01:27:13   and the second part is I see you've got this image of like a mailing list you've got a mailing list is kind of like an [TS]

01:27:18   implicit support channel where people will post questions [TS]

01:27:22   and the malice is so low volume of the only person I was who can answer me [TS]

01:27:26   and over the course of a decade literally this is malice there which is degenerated to. [TS]

01:27:32   I give free support for a module that I hadn't worked on in years. [TS]

01:27:36   Right so people ask a question and literally the only personal answer is me [TS]

01:27:40   and do I should I spend time answering these people they're not my customers are not giving any money do I have any [TS]

01:27:46   commitment to help these people with their programming problems which often are nothing to do with my model. [TS]

01:27:51   Not really and so I struggle with the guilt of like do I just not answer anyone's questions anymore [TS]

01:27:56   and that's how this analyst I do I shut down the mailing list or do I. [TS]

01:28:00   Why spend the five minutes to answer a question [TS]

01:28:02   and then the final thing which case it was going to is the equivalent in the GO code world using subversion [TS]

01:28:08   and go code instead of getting Get help pull requests [TS]

01:28:11   and bug reports some reports a bug someone reports a bug in the patch. [TS]

01:28:15   Someone makes feature request feature requests I'm pretty OK with just ignoring this point it's like well you know if [TS]

01:28:21   you want an implemented but then what if they go off an implement it. [TS]

01:28:24   If they implement it [TS]

01:28:25   and send me a patch then I have to get with like my case he was like well I probably wouldn't add that feature myself [TS]

01:28:31   or maybe it would add up but I would do in a different way [TS]

01:28:34   and the same thing with bug fixes they would send the Senate passed with a bug fix and a test and everything else [TS]

01:28:40   and documentation and it's like you just always take some time to clean those things up put them in test [TS]

01:28:44   and cut a new release so and so forth. [TS]

01:28:46   And my decision so far has been I will incorporate bug fixes if you report a bug is reproducible [TS]

01:28:52   and you have a test case I will fix that bug [TS]

01:28:54   or figure out what it takes to take it so I won't add features for the most part and thus you send a feature [TS]

01:29:01   and tied up in a little bow I'll spend fifteen minutes half an hour an hour to get it integrated [TS]

01:29:06   or for a module that I myself don't use anymore. [TS]

01:29:09   That is terrible in that no one should really use that you know that is really old. [TS]

01:29:13   The source code that I can barely look at anymore but I mean I don't know what's driving me to put any time into it [TS]

01:29:21   and yet I am [TS]

01:29:22   and so I I almost feel like that I'm like a slave to the lingering popularity of a once popular set of for all modules [TS]

01:29:31   that I just I don't know how to like sometimes I find myself thinking [TS]

01:29:36   when I get a message the email isn't someone make some demand or whatever might want you to implement it yourself. [TS]

01:29:41   Like if you're if you're so hot about it like you know why should I answer this question for you why should I fix [TS]

01:29:48   but all you get you get resentful. [TS]

01:29:49   Like not their fault like I don't I don't act on the things that you feel like and I am your free servant why. [TS]

01:29:56   Like it's like a stack overflow one like that but I'm not. [TS]

01:30:00   That's right [TS]

01:30:01   and I guess a lot of time it's you know it's from either something simple where they don't understand something basic [TS]

01:30:07   about programming or like being sanely most complex thing I've got this and that and the other thing [TS]

01:30:11   and they're all tied together like this and I'm doing this and that and then I would like to do this [TS]

01:30:14   and you think of a way I can do this it's like Are you kidding. [TS]

01:30:16   That's what I do for a job I get paid to do that that is a very complicated problem that we have a white board [TS]

01:30:21   and like days to sit down to figure out [TS]

01:30:24   and it's like well answer for free for me on this mailing list just so I'm going to benefit generation with these [TS]

01:30:30   things mostly dealing with it by doing the minimal work necessary to make myself feel guilty which means actually [TS]

01:30:36   fixing bugs because people are using these things [TS]

01:30:38   and I don't want to fix bugs like my final out is to hand off this model to someone who cares like you know the [TS]

01:30:44   equivalent Marco selling his stuff to someone who wants a thing. [TS]

01:30:48   Is there somebody who wants to take over maintain or ship of this here you go go with it [TS]

01:30:52   and I won't do that because I still have some tiny bit of pride in like this was once a pretty good thing. [TS]

01:30:56   I spent a long time implementing and running tests and documentation and it still kind of works sort of [TS]

01:31:03   and you know I don't know I just don't feel like I want to give it up because I don't know. [TS]

01:31:08   So anyway I don't know how to deal with that situation it's a constant source of guilt and potential time suckage. [TS]

01:31:15   Now Marco How have you dealt with F C model because that's probably the most active of anything we've described I would [TS]

01:31:21   guess. [TS]

01:31:23   Well recently I mean probably the most used thing I've ever done is buckshot kit which I haven't touched in a long time [TS]

01:31:30   and for many the same reason I haven't took buckshot in fact much of buckshot goes in book jacket [TS]

01:31:36   but it's mostly because you know it I did it it worked. [TS]

01:31:40   I use it for a while I no longer use buckshot kit in my own app on his I don't really need that kind of integration of [TS]

01:31:47   testing and stuff anymore and that's it so I haven't touched in a long time and it doesn't really need anything. [TS]

01:31:53   It generally works and you know all the code is pretty simple [TS]

01:31:56   and if you needed to do something you can just do it yourself in your own app. I do it. [TS]

01:32:00   Only get pull requests on buckshot kit if it's something really trivial that's an obvious you know minor improvement [TS]

01:32:07   or minor bug fix I'll just accept it. [TS]

01:32:09   If it's more than that I'll usually sit on it [TS]

01:32:11   and forget to do it for a month in the vengefully it'll become so ridiculous at data that there's no point accepting it [TS]

01:32:18   kind of like old emails with S.C. [TS]

01:32:21   Model is different so there really isn't a group of people out there wandering around looking like your open source [TS]

01:32:28   library that does some really specific thing that they don't need to do [TS]

01:32:33   or that some really general thing like like your utility library like I have my utility library open source like so [TS]

01:32:38   many people do. Nobody uses it. [TS]

01:32:41   Nobody looks at it I get noble requests on it like it's gets no activity because there's not a whole lot of people [TS]

01:32:47   looking around for your utility library so just like there's not a lot of value that for most people not to get pull [TS]

01:32:54   requests you know you know they don't just come from the poll request fairies like they like they come from people who [TS]

01:33:00   are using your code. People who need the code you've written who value it. [TS]

01:33:04   The code for which there aren't a lot of alternatives or there aren't a lot of big well known alternatives [TS]

01:33:10   and that they need to be modified in some way [TS]

01:33:14   and in the percentage of those people who actually go through with the modification [TS]

01:33:18   or release filing a bug report with you or asking you about it rather than just ripping it out [TS]

01:33:22   and doing something else or taking quietly themselves and never submit back to you. [TS]

01:33:26   So for most projects most open source projects. [TS]

01:33:29   The reason why you probably get a noble request because you like just having open source something doesn't inherently [TS]

01:33:34   make it like useful to enough people that they will start using it and submitting improvements to you. [TS]

01:33:42   I do completely agree with John that it is kind of annoying though [TS]

01:33:45   when somebody to mythical request is like well intentioned but either something that I wouldn't do [TS]

01:33:50   or something I would've done differently. [TS]

01:33:52   Well eight are even poorer because what if someone sent you an email because you don't have a malice for a C. [TS]

01:33:56   Model or anything as far as I know I sent you an e-mail and said Hey I was using your. [TS]

01:34:00   Never your utility library as he model bugs I get whatever and I was trying to do X. [TS]

01:34:04   and I couldn't quite figure a way to do it I tried to do this and it didn't quite work [TS]

01:34:07   and I thought maybe you could do that but I'm not sure if I'm using your own can you help me. [TS]

01:34:12   What would you do with that email I would respond probably the most it was a really quick response. [TS]

01:34:16   You would not respond at all I would be looking at the support email I mean I get so much e-mail I can't I can't spend [TS]

01:34:22   like a half hour respond to that that that's all I'm saying like that type of the writer [TS]

01:34:26   and imagine if you got like maybe three of those a week for a decade starts there where I knew I just feel like like [TS]

01:34:35   you feel so bad like I am the king of ignoring people's emails right. [TS]

01:34:40   I don't even know even I start to feel bad because it's like especially with programming questions. [TS]

01:34:49   Happens on Twitter too it's like I could get the answer to this question often by this point I will be someone else [TS]

01:34:57   goes I remember anymore like you could if you have the answer the question could be you can use my usual elaborate do [TS]

01:35:02   that because doesn't work that way [TS]

01:35:03   and then you feel like now you're in a conversation with them they're you like looking at that feature [TS]

01:35:07   and then your only answer is like no because I'm not spending time and I don't want it [TS]

01:35:11   and then it's like it's like you just wasted your you wasted more time than you want to spend on this and it's [TS]

01:35:15   and that's the best case trying to get out as fast as possible. [TS]

01:35:18   The worst case is you don't know the answer and you have to investigate [TS]

01:35:21   and you're like why am I invested in this guy's programming problem you know I mean like are you just because you wrote [TS]

01:35:27   F C model does that mean that there is implicit support contract with everyone who tries to use a few miles do you have [TS]

01:35:32   to provide them support. [TS]

01:35:33   No Mike I don't think you do but if you don't you end up looking like a jerk if you reply [TS]

01:35:37   and say sorry this library is not supported there you like. I demand my money back. [TS]

01:35:42   What are they going to say but they will think you're a jerk. F.C. [TS]

01:35:45   Model is actually a really good example of everything working very very well. [TS]

01:35:49   So the quick version is it's it's a very thin lightweight model where instead of using the link. [TS]

01:35:56   or data it's basically sticking a very thin layer on top of S.Q. [TS]

01:36:00   Right and you can do things you know like the database when I use this because I'm a jerk and I don't like or data [TS]

01:36:06   and I like to read everything myself so I wrote the thing. [TS]

01:36:10   F C model has what appears to be very few users I think I would guess a number of people building after that is [TS]

01:36:18   probably less than ten. [TS]

01:36:20   It is a very small group of people but of those like three or four of them actually actively submit push pull [TS]

01:36:29   and pull requests and they're actually really good and you know [TS]

01:36:33   and usually will discuss something like before a substantial change will discuss it in an issue [TS]

01:36:37   and I'll write the facts you know because I'm a control freak but you know [TS]

01:36:40   when people people have submitted so many like little tiny bug fixes and little improvements here [TS]

01:36:44   and there there are only a few lines long and that's all great but you start supporting them because [TS]

01:36:49   when someone says hey I was trying to this thing it didn't work because I did this. [TS]

01:36:54   You are providing support because your support is engaging in a discussion with them about the future getting at the [TS]

01:36:59   heart of what it is that they want [TS]

01:37:00   and then you maintain ownership by Center saying well this is how I would do it in this is what I would do [TS]

01:37:05   and then implementing that So it's a support function you're essentially implementing features at their request maybe [TS]

01:37:11   just not exactly the way they did and talking to them answering their questions about it. [TS]

01:37:15   Well I am except well but if it's like a how does this work question you usually don't answer those. [TS]

01:37:19   And sometimes somebody else will which is really nice [TS]

01:37:21   but I don't get a lot of those because again not a lot of people use this [TS]

01:37:26   and the people you don't know what they're doing like not a bunch of beginners flooding into like I am. [TS]

01:37:29   I just started writing my first I was out and I stumbled across your thing can you tell me how to use it. [TS]

01:37:33   Right because they are not going to be looking for sunlight as they're going to be using core data because that's all [TS]

01:37:37   the door L.Z. [TS]

01:37:38   Is [TS]

01:37:38   and that's fine that's they should be using some like this probably cord it is much simpler than your modules will be fine. [TS]

01:37:43   Right. So what's great about this though is it like the reason why I'm engaged with it. [TS]

01:37:51   The reason why I react to the poll requests and I improve it is purely selfish it's because I use it in overcast and. [TS]

01:38:00   I'll probably use it in any near future apps that I would write as well like not I'm sorry [TS]

01:38:04   and things that are pregnant and just if I was something new I'd probably use it again. [TS]

01:38:08   That's why I pay attention because it's improving my app too. [TS]

01:38:13   And my my needs for overcast drive a few miles development. The bugs I wouldn't do I fix an F.C. [TS]

01:38:22   Model etc The performance issues are until I fix their Everyone gets out so this is the honeymoon period [TS]

01:38:27   when you're still using it for your own work. [TS]

01:38:28   I had several models for the most part were written for jobs I had at the time so that I could write them put them up [TS]

01:38:36   and then get the benefits I was able to give its various people I work for that there is a benefit in open sourcing [TS]

01:38:42   this part of the product because I will get used to cheer other people bug reports from other people like you know that [TS]

01:38:47   the open source model and it worked for the years that the software was relevant [TS]

01:38:51   but as it became less relevant it sort of aged out. [TS]

01:38:53   I stopped using it other people stopped using it now it's like a zombie for right now if the model is new relevant it's [TS]

01:39:00   extremely relevant in light of the various weird you know I got core data things that were going on right now which [TS]

01:39:05   motivated existence [TS]

01:39:08   and that you know so it's definitely in the period where you are reaping the benefits of of this being a module that I [TS]

01:39:14   mean not widely used. [TS]

01:39:15   He's had like ten active people [TS]

01:39:17   but it's it's useful to you even if you are the only user you would like to have it out there just in case something [TS]

01:39:22   happens to stumble across it because and find some bug [TS]

01:39:25   or you know whatever like even the you know the talking to the to the bear thing where I said nobody ever looked at the [TS]

01:39:31   source code but the mere act of publishing it like you know the mere act of you publishing a blog post [TS]

01:39:35   or something cause you to find a typo that you didn't see when you've been staring out of the previous hour [TS]

01:39:39   when it was in your you know unpublished state. Oh yeah I mean the F.C. [TS]

01:39:44   Model is probably the best couldn't overcast by a long shot. [TS]

01:39:48   And would you say that's because of the contributions now because he had to show it to people who had to clean it up to [TS]

01:39:53   make it look not embarrassing. [TS]

01:39:54   I mean it's both I mean like one thing the contributions have really helped with is like. [TS]

01:40:00   The contribution of often be by very good programmers who have been around much longer than I have at this [TS]

01:40:05   or is better than me at it and they will they will use a convention that I didn't even know existed like. [TS]

01:40:12   Like instead of doing you know processor defines for string constants will do the X. [TS]

01:40:17   Turn thing or like using and you knew instead of defining a new in the old C. [TS]

01:40:21   Ways of the some autocomplete thing works better like there's little things like that that I pick up from the poll [TS]

01:40:26   requests then I start doing that [TS]

01:40:28   and the dreaded words like it's like I'm working with a bunch of smart people who are slowly [TS]

01:40:32   and steadily improving my own skills by showing me cool things I could do like any rows I could do [TS]

01:40:36   or show a better way to doing things in very you know it oftentimes in very small ways [TS]

01:40:40   but over time that builds up I mean if the model is really like it is by far the only successful open source thing I've [TS]

01:40:49   ever done [TS]

01:40:49   and the most successful teachers ever done everything else of every open source has been really minimally benefited [TS]

01:40:56   anybody including me and you know John you're right as your model is in the honeymoon phase because I'm using it. [TS]

01:41:02   I stop using bugs and so bugs it is languishing and will probably never going to fit again if I ever stop using a C. [TS]

01:41:10   Model the project will probably die at that point or somebody else can take it over if they want to [TS]

01:41:13   but probably I want to and that would be it. [TS]

01:41:19   But right now I'm still using it and I suspect I'll be using it for a while. [TS]

01:41:23   So yes right now I'm fine so I guess my my way out is I just have to get better at ignoring them I can ever you know [TS]

01:41:32   bug reports though I can probably you know our feature requests you know stuff like that of oh that'll be sad because [TS]

01:41:41   that old you know people don't know it's going to be said for bug reports like how can ignore them you know all of them [TS]

01:41:49   just pile up like yeah this bug I just feel like I have to fix it. Especially just like you know it's. [TS]

01:41:55   That still works so I guess it's still working software I think it's a shame too. [TS]

01:42:00   Work itself or become on working just because of one minor thing. [TS]

01:42:04   I don't know I will probably just insane to limp along with stuff like I keep hoping that people lose interest entirely. [TS]

01:42:09   But but they don't people still sign up for the mailing list and like you know I don't understand them. I'm conflicted. [TS]

01:42:19   Thanks a lot to our sponsors this week. Oscar Bakley is an igloo and he will see you next week. [TS]

01:42:28   Now that's a downturn and she's accepted That's right. So John you got a P S four last week sometime. [TS]

01:43:32   I knew I was going to get one eventually and I kept telling myself I will get one [TS]

01:43:36   when there's a game that I want to play and of course I would love for the game to be Last Guardian [TS]

01:43:40   but you know I say it surely will be some other game that I want to play before the [TS]

01:43:44   when the last of us remastered came out I thought that might be the game [TS]

01:43:47   but I just very recently played the non remastered on B S three so that didn't make me by P S four [TS]

01:43:53   and I don't know what maybe I would now I think it's kind of my my tradition pre-Christian this present. [TS]

01:44:00   My self that I give myself before Christmas Around away for Christmas so I can play with it in the vacation because [TS]

01:44:04   that's a long time but that is not become a tradition and I bought myself something that I wanted and [TS]

01:44:11   and give it to myself before Christmas morning so I can play with it while on vacation and so the P.S. [TS]

01:44:16   or Fit the bill for that because I was going to get one anyway [TS]

01:44:20   but I don't really know what kind of games I was going to get for it [TS]

01:44:23   and so I just got a mix of download a lot of downloadable titles that in lot of bother getting discs shipped to me [TS]

01:44:29   or whatever and I still think that they load faster off the hard drive. [TS]

01:44:33   I don't if that's not true please don't tell me because I like to keep my allusions [TS]

01:44:36   but you know so I downloaded a bunch of stuff and [TS]

01:44:42   when I play I'm not planning although I say I had destiny my son is already addicted to that destiny is exactly what I [TS]

01:44:48   thought it would be it's fine. [TS]

01:44:49   The controller just destroys my hands playing destiny the Alex exists on the wrong spot you got to use all four [TS]

01:44:56   triggers at the same time and then are going out nightmare for me. [TS]

01:44:59   I really need to limit my time playing a game which is a shame because I find it fun. [TS]

01:45:02   Investing is pretty well done I don't know why I got such terrible reviews I guess people have higher expectations [TS]

01:45:06   but I I consider more of a long term investment and my son is really enjoying it so [TS]

01:45:11   when I saw reviews like six point five out of ten for Destiny maybe was Bug year on launch maybe just people have [TS]

01:45:16   higher expectations [TS]

01:45:17   but it fully satisfied everything that I thought it would be it's not really my dad to gamble anyway. [TS]

01:45:24   But but but mostly is annoying about the P S four is [TS]

01:45:27   and I knew that going in is that is not going to be a drop in replacement for my P S three because Sony concentrated so [TS]

01:45:36   heavily on the game features that they're seemingly like obstinately opposed to doing new media center type stuff like [TS]

01:45:46   they don't sell a Bluetooth like remote for not you know like a remote remote that looks like a T.V. Remote. [TS]

01:45:52   So you have to use the game if you want to use it as your own. [TS]

01:45:57   Blu ray player like my P S three is always on my Blu ray player. Or if you want to use your B.S. [TS]

01:46:01   For as a player you have to use the controller and that is ridiculous [TS]

01:46:04   and I can have the controller sitting there on the end table so I can just I just want to that there are third party [TS]

01:46:10   remotes that you can buy but all of them had terrible reviews and all of them use an I.R. [TS]

01:46:14   Interface connected to the U.S.B. [TS]

01:46:15   Thing and I was like Sony can you just make a remote like charge some stupid ridiculous amount for [TS]

01:46:20   and I'll buy it I just want a remote they used to didn't they for the P S three of the P S The P S three has a [TS]

01:46:25   Bluetooth remote that works is B S three I'm pretty sure it doesn't work with the P S four some [TS]

01:46:30   and if it does we're going to be a source on the chair and tell me I will. [TS]

01:46:33   I control my P S three with the harmony thing is that has a Bluetooth interface and I can do it and it works great. [TS]

01:46:39   Yeah if I can find anyone knows that I want to send feedback to show a Bluetooth remote that works with the P S four [TS]

01:46:45   natively without any real drivers and that works well. [TS]

01:46:48   That's fine and some of the charities point out my very next point no deal [TS]

01:46:51   and I support for you know streaming video of all the various House devices in my house that can do that [TS]

01:46:57   and so you know forget about like having the Plex operated like that. [TS]

01:47:01   Just the basic media center type stuff I can play everywhere if you can play Blu ray movies on it [TS]

01:47:07   and I bet it's pretty OK Blu ray player although I was researching this a lot of people playing with the very first [TS]

01:47:12   version the P S four software. [TS]

01:47:13   The Blu ray player wasn't even as good as the P S three one so I still have my P S three attached I still use it as I [TS]

01:47:19   blew a player I don't really use it for D.N.A. That much as my T.V. [TS]

01:47:22   Doesn't now natively so I don't want turn on the P S three if I don't have to [TS]

01:47:26   but depending on where video comes from and what format it's in. Sometimes I have to use P.S. [TS]

01:47:32   Three media server sometimes I have to use the P S three to stream for someplace else sometimes like a standard for my [TS]

01:47:37   T.V. but I do a lot of things that's my T.V. Now. [TS]

01:47:41   Like if I can't get rid of my P S three want to get rid of my P S four and I can't get rid of my wee [TS]

01:47:46   when I get my way you know because that we still play the game as Game Cube connectors like I got five game console [TS]

01:47:51   Sega's and I.T.V. Plus Apple T.V. You know Tivo Plus I'm running at inputs here. So as I really hope. [TS]

01:48:00   The media center type capabilities of the P S four get better [TS]

01:48:04   but right now it's disappointing to me that I can't make a clean upgrade. [TS]

01:48:07   Art is also disappointing that the shape of the P S four. [TS]

01:48:11   If you put a B S three on top of P S four it doesn't look right to me it looks like that the front of this [TS]

01:48:15   or the slanty and it doesn't make a pleasing shape [TS]

01:48:18   and you can put the P S four on top of the P S three biggest curve like a drug for mongrels little skitter off the P S [TS]

01:48:24   four doesn't have feet on the bottom and has these three little rubber curve things [TS]

01:48:29   and a kind of a tripod that elevate the P S four barely off the surface [TS]

01:48:33   but because the air in the air intakes are not on the bottom so you could have the thing flush [TS]

01:48:38   but if you put it on top of another piece of equipment it will be blocking the holes more or less [TS]

01:48:41   and I think that it's on top of so I had to buy some clear rubber feet to elevate it to area to the devices underneath [TS]

01:48:46   it and I'm out of Court T.V. [TS]

01:48:51   So I had to buy a new switch [TS]

01:48:52   and it's just you know it's someplace I'm not out of plugs in the power of getting close give a thing with the missing [TS]

01:48:59   feet I was just about to say that get out of my head but I think feet and fast text I can do it. All right fine. [TS]

01:49:07   Yeah so anyway the controller is an improvement over the P S three one [TS]

01:49:10   but the button layout is so wrong the sticks are still in the wrong spot. [TS]

01:49:14   The triggers are better but not that much better [TS]

01:49:18   and the controls are expensive like fifty bucks each hour the touchpad thing that they added is not a good touch pad [TS]

01:49:23   but it does make text input slightly less painful because you can use a touch pad to move the little cursor around on [TS]

01:49:29   to the key things. [TS]

01:49:31   Would you ever consider stacking the P S four with a non Sony system to make it stack better with your step. [TS]

01:49:38   Or does it have to be stuck with a P S three now I was stuck with anything the kids type of it you see my so there's [TS]

01:49:44   not a room that little shelf. [TS]

01:49:45   There's only two possible cases you can go Under the P S three or on top of my receiver [TS]

01:49:49   and under the P S three it looks weird and on top of my receiver is where it is now [TS]

01:49:53   but it's in feet elevated up second question. Would you consider D.D. Chaining two receivers. [TS]

01:50:00   You get like seven more E.Q. [TS]

01:50:01   My inputs and I don't David Jane [TS]

01:50:03   and you can just get a switching box of searching about her terrible is why I got that I got this this receiver because [TS]

01:50:08   I was trying to find a balance of what about the Sony receiver that had ten H.D.M.I. [TS]

01:50:12   Inputs but all this just this huge thread of horror stories about a blanking out [TS]

01:50:16   and having all sorts of problems so I guess I should go into the thread it's not like forty pages people complain to [TS]

01:50:22   Sony and I'm trying to fix it. [TS]

01:50:23   Anyway I'm glad I didn't get that one so I got this one that all the features that I wanted six H.D.M.I. [TS]

01:50:28   Ports but one of them is on the front my T.V. Has but for a three. [TS]

01:50:33   Like I still have options like I try to connect the consul's directly to T.V. [TS]

01:50:36   To reduce input lag so I have I still have enough options for the devices I have I'm not out of ports like I'm close to [TS]

01:50:43   being out of ports on a receiver [TS]

01:50:45   but I can connect both of the Consul both of the council the current gen console swell the P S four in the way you [TS]

01:50:51   directly to the T.V. and D.V.D. [TS]

01:50:54   For input leg reason so I'm not really out of sorts [TS]

01:50:56   but next generation of consoles are going to have to make some hard decisions about what to do because I won't be [TS]

01:51:02   getting it to you by then if I can help it. [TS]

01:51:04   Even that's going to be how many years away the material while off I know I was I was pleasantly surprised by the [TS]

01:51:10   general speediness and U.I. [TS]

01:51:13   Like I mean I think the P S three why is I mean it's not good but it's understandable and the B.S. [TS]

01:51:19   For you I is a mild evolution of that it looks a little bit more spammy and in my face but it's fast it works. [TS]

01:51:26   Gotta my wife I could use the land poor and I didn't have any problems with anything it pretty much just work. [TS]

01:51:34   Download speeds are reasonable you know downloading stuff in the store works I guess like it is much better at this [TS]

01:51:40   stage in its life in the two or three of us at this stage is like I can tell you that. [TS]

01:51:46   Though I still endorse it over the X. [TS]

01:51:48   Box One game system and not just because I have played and Microsoft tape but also because of it [TS]

01:51:55   and for the national the doubters and Chiron I still believe Last Guardian will ship. [TS]

01:51:59   I still believe you can't stop me. [TS]