The Accidental Tech Podcast

99: Pop-Up Headlights


00:00:00   So I should start the show by pointing out that it is fourteen degrees outside here in the place that does not have [TS]

00:00:07   winter. Are you still stuck on this right here let slip my my throat is reading thirteen point eight. [TS]

00:00:14   So we are clearly colder the new we have winter you don't. [TS]

00:00:17   I'm twelve here get His know those two cents of those two point two degrees man. There killer.. [TS]

00:00:24   Right now that I got that out of the way. Do you understand follow up what we do. Let's talk about FS L. [TS]

00:00:32   So we have a couple of more pieces of interesting news flash feedback with regard to whether [TS]

00:00:38   or not you really need a cell for just plain old websites that don't really do anything interactive David Walken wrote [TS]

00:00:45   in and said regarding us to sell everywhere. [TS]

00:00:47   Mostly just Nephi on this is a demand for decently sized charter school in California [TS]

00:00:51   and I can tell you from experience that H.T.T.P. S. [TS]

00:00:54   Wreaks havoc with the constant filters that we are required to have in place. I love the idea of cheap or free S.S.L. [TS]

00:01:00   Certs and more security in general but it's also going to make my life miserable. [TS]

00:01:05   Trying to keep students from doing content that they shouldn't. [TS]

00:01:08   And that's kind of unfortunate that schools have to filter everything but I totally understand it. [TS]

00:01:14   And that's actually an interesting point that I hadn't considered before. [TS]

00:01:18   Now that it's going to the same thing that discussed last week to force everyone to have a certificate to manage [TS]

00:01:22   military and everybody else on the school's Internet and. You know what happens in corporate settings. [TS]

00:01:27   It happens in schools all the time and as we learned from many other people had the same back [TS]

00:01:31   and in attach a name to it in the notes because so many people sent it. [TS]

00:01:33   They were showing examples of Go-Go's in-flight Internet. [TS]

00:01:36   Issuing its own certificate so that it can men in the middle you. [TS]

00:01:40   Because once your browser trudges trusted certificate it acts as an S.S.L. [TS]

00:01:43   Proxy decrypts everything see there are all the traffic that goes through and who knows what else it does. [TS]

00:01:48   So this is definitely a thing it happens in all sorts of places it happens on plain wife I happens in academic settings [TS]

00:01:56   happens in corporate settings. Yeah but the wonders of S.S.L. Is not the fault of a cell but it's like. [TS]

00:02:04   People want to see your data. And if you try to use the cell to stop them from seeing your data. [TS]

00:02:08   If you wander into an environment where they say No really. We need to see your data. They'll see your data. Yep. [TS]

00:02:14   Well and I think this is one of those cases where like. [TS]

00:02:16   You know you can't have it both ways if you want to have complete control over what gets viewed over your network [TS]

00:02:22   and you want to spy on people or filter it. Unique control over those devices. [TS]

00:02:26   So that you can do things like install your own certificates. You know via I.T. Policy and you know group installation. [TS]

00:02:32   Methods stuff like that where you know you can have a coffee shop and B. [TS]

00:02:37   and Say are you can take your laptop in here whatever you want browsing whatever you want. [TS]

00:02:40   And then be spying on that without their knowledge you know that's that's no good. [TS]

00:02:43   So I think this is actually of a perfectly fine balance I don't think we're going to cause trouble for schools [TS]

00:02:47   everywhere. To a degree that it's work not doing it. [TS]

00:02:50   Yeah I mean and like the GO thing is doing schools could do something similar if you're basically you try to foist. [TS]

00:02:56   The certificate on the people who are on your net we're going to look if you want to be on our network. [TS]

00:03:01   The prices you have to use a civic and trust and so we can feel your content. [TS]

00:03:04   I'm not quite sure what the state of filtering in an academic setting is the that I understand why it would be a thing [TS]

00:03:10   that people want to do but it seems to me that it's. [TS]

00:03:14   Basically impossible to stop what they're trying to stop as students are seeing things inappropriate [TS]

00:03:20   and what students trying to do is see an appropriate things. And if the students are one hundred percent going to win. [TS]

00:03:25   Yep like you cannot stop them. Right but I understand that it's like well just because we can't stop them. [TS]

00:03:30   Doesn't mean we shouldn't try because not trying so I don't know I don't know what the correct solution there is [TS]

00:03:35   but technically speaking as one of those situations where you're not going to win. Well plus. [TS]

00:03:40   I mean not to get too creepy about it but like I think. [TS]

00:03:43   By the time a lot of kids are old enough to start seeking out bad things on the Internet. [TS]

00:03:48   There's a pretty good chance these days they probably have their own smartphone. With a data plan. [TS]

00:03:53   Yep and Verizon all it's doing is tracking the putting in a tracker and all there is if you're. [TS]

00:03:59   It's funny guys bring up schools. Again because when Aaron first started teaching. [TS]

00:04:05   She wanted to be able to do something simple like look at G. Mail. When she was it working at the time it was filtered. [TS]

00:04:11   And I think when she had left at the end of this past school year. [TS]

00:04:16   Teachers were afforded more privileges than the students were. [TS]

00:04:20   But when she first started that was in the case [TS]

00:04:22   and so I vividly remember getting into a like several months long game of chicken. [TS]

00:04:28   Where I set up I think was like a Sox proxy on a little Linux server I had at the house. [TS]

00:04:33   And she was using after a while in the neck up locked and so then I moved the socks proxy [TS]

00:04:38   or whatever it was it doesn't really matter I move the proxy. [TS]

00:04:40   On See you like a standard port number like twenty five [TS]

00:04:44   or something like that of my time in the exchange port number whatever that was. [TS]

00:04:47   But then that eventually got blocked [TS]

00:04:49   and that was around the time that that they started giving the teachers more privileges. [TS]

00:04:53   But there were other few other steps that I don't remember in this process [TS]

00:04:56   but we were definitely playing this like cat and mouse game Ian. [TS]

00:04:59   Well maybe it wasn't just me because I think her students were doing it too to John's point. [TS]

00:05:03   But the plane is kind mouse game for first several months trying to get Aaron access to not just regular things like G. [TS]

00:05:10   Mail these weren't nefarious things. But eventually it ended up that the overlords one. [TS]

00:05:16   And they just allowed the teachers to have a little bit more math. More access. [TS]

00:05:21   Yeah I mean anyone who's ever worked with one of these content filters and try to get any work done. [TS]

00:05:27   Has usually aren't a problem like this where like a stance a bully it's a good idea to help keep you working [TS]

00:05:32   and keep you on track and there are situations where that work somewhere that has been successful [TS]

00:05:36   but there's also a lot of situations where like the filter is actually keeping people from. [TS]

00:05:42   Not only doing harmless things like checking their G. Mail every once in awhile a work. [TS]

00:05:46   But also actually keeping them from doing their jobs properly. [TS]

00:05:48   Like if you have to be researching things on the internet for as part of your job or looking applying for a paper [TS]

00:05:53   and some of these A so many sites are blocked and they it's. [TS]

00:05:55   It's there are so many situations where these content filters are actively harmful to what's trying to get done in the [TS]

00:06:01   office. That they're trying to protect. Yeah. [TS]

00:06:04   It's absolutely true and in errands case there were a lot of You Tube videos that she would use during classes. [TS]

00:06:11   About all sorts of various and different things. Aaron was a high school biology teacher. [TS]

00:06:15   And she couldn't even do that for the longest time because You Tube was carte blanche filtered entirely. [TS]

00:06:22   And again you know over time the teachers got more access than she could do this again [TS]

00:06:26   but your point is absolutely right Marco that. [TS]

00:06:29   It's not always about nefarious things it's not always about slacking off sometimes it's really justifiable use but [TS]

00:06:35   when the. The thing that's preventing you access is completely algorithmic and not like curated or whatever. [TS]

00:06:42   That's what's going to happen. [TS]

00:06:44   Yeah I mean You Tube is a massive resource for teachers like that cannot be overstated like You Tube is an incredible [TS]

00:06:50   resource for teachers. And moving on to other follow up. [TS]

00:06:54   I should sort of kind of apologize to Marco in that I lead you astray. Last episode. [TS]

00:07:02   With regard to your question about well could I just do my feet polar which will hopefully talk about a little bit [TS]

00:07:07   later. Could I just do that in C. Sharp and I said when a going after run all by S. [TS]

00:07:12   and All of a speed and then blah blah blah it's really not worth it [TS]

00:07:14   and Frank Kruger pointed out some me that I think it's called S.P. Net. [TS]

00:07:19   The next or something like that that's probably wrong to don't email me. [TS]

00:07:23   But anyway the upcoming or currently out I guess version of S.P. Down at they actually have. [TS]

00:07:28   I guess it's binary for all sorts different platforms. And so you wouldn't necessarily need to run the full stack on. [TS]

00:07:36   You know some D.P.S. Somewhere. And the other thing I didn't consider days you probably wouldn't need I-S. [TS]

00:07:41   Anyway you can. You could just write a console app that in turn reaches out to the Internet. [TS]

00:07:46   But if you're calling it locally or. You know via some some end point locally. You may not even need I-S. [TS]

00:07:53   It all and I know this is kind of irrelevant but for the three. S.P. [TS]

00:07:57   Dot net developers that are listening my apologies to you for leading Marco astray [TS]

00:08:02   and Marco should you ever decide to give up on your beloved go feed crawl or sink or whatever guy. [TS]

00:08:09   Let me know when all such up with some C. Sharp stuff. [TS]

00:08:11   Not see what you missed your chance this is your one window behind me to learn a new language once a decade [TS]

00:08:17   and this is this is your one window that you could have gotten me to try a Microsoft language note. [TS]

00:08:21   Not going to do it I know it's all over. I quit. It's all your fault. Don't think that. [TS]

00:08:26   I don't think that it was the right answer for you for this particular problem [TS]

00:08:29   but I stand by that if you ever for some whatever reason. How to chance to really learn C. [TS]

00:08:35   Sharp I really do you think you'd like it a lot but at this point I honestly don't know why. [TS]

00:08:39   Why you would try it like leave aside my own allegiances I don't think it makes sense for you at all but anyway. [TS]

00:08:45   You could have. If I hadn't failed you miserably. And that kind of segues into. You. [TS]

00:08:51   Why don't you tell us a quick update on your feed poll Are you a tweeted a day or two ago now that you. [TS]

00:08:57   Deployed to go feed polar this morning whatever that day was a few hours later I was able to confidently reduce the [TS]

00:09:03   number of overcast V P S's. From thirteen to five. That's incredible. [TS]

00:09:08   Yep that's right and I think I can even get to go down to four but it be cutting it a little bit closer. [TS]

00:09:12   Probably not going to do it. But yes so. [TS]

00:09:16   Last week I believe my status last week was I had written my ten lines of go code so I really didn't have anything [TS]

00:09:21   going right is that true. That's about right if my. If my memory is correct. [TS]

00:09:25   So I've been I've been trying it for about a week and I really like it. [TS]

00:09:28   There's not much more to say I'm using it right now it is it is currently running on overcast it has replaced the [TS]

00:09:34   P.H.P. Feed crawler So it hasn't replaced all the P.H.P. Feed processing. It has only done like the front end stuff. [TS]

00:09:42   Of. Now P.H.P. Is no longer making network requests. So it's no longer waiting around for network requests. [TS]

00:09:49   With all this process of nothing to do whaling around for curls so that is all now on go. Go is now fetching the pages. [TS]

00:09:57   Every X. Seconds or whatever. And you know depending on certain conditions of hens and subscriber count. [TS]

00:10:02   Latest error in any way. Fetches fetches all the feeds. And then when it finds a changed feed. [TS]

00:10:09   It's stuff that feed into Read us. And a veggie P.H.P. Worker processes. Crawl that. [TS]

00:10:15   So before I said it was two hundred forty. P.H.P. Processes that were doing all the crawling. [TS]

00:10:20   Now it is one go process and eight P.H.P. Processes. [TS]

00:10:25   And I probably don't even need those eight but I will see what happens there I bet I can get away with four [TS]

00:10:29   but I probably just leave it at a just to have some headroom if there's like a bunch of. If there's a burst of updates. [TS]

00:10:34   And that's roughly it so far. I like the language a lot now if neither of you two have done anything with it right. [TS]

00:10:41   I have not. Nope. So it does. I mean obviously I am not one to learn new languages frequently. [TS]

00:10:50   Looking at the landscape today the reason I chose go after after kind of running from note [TS]

00:10:55   and by the way we heard from a lot of people about node. Trying to fix. Fix my memory leak and. [TS]

00:11:02   There's a there's a bunch of nuance to how you call set Timeout. [TS]

00:11:05   And what variables are in scope and whether you use a closure. [TS]

00:11:09   Around it or named function [TS]

00:11:10   or what you know what we're at whether you respond to a variable to all these little nuances. [TS]

00:11:14   I have no doubt that the right person could look at this code and fix it for me. But as I said last week. [TS]

00:11:22   You know no does it just doesn't fit me as well as as something I really want to want to invest a lot of time into it [TS]

00:11:30   is not good enough it for me and in other ways besides this way so I lost interest in trying to fix this problem. [TS]

00:11:36   Thank you know people I appreciate the week of your support. But please stop even when he correction. [TS]

00:11:43   Because I've already stopped using the language. I'm sure it's fine for you or Merlin but that's it. [TS]

00:11:49   Looking at everything else was available. I consider other things like you know Java Python. [TS]

00:11:54   I was going to do a speed internet until case you talked me out of it last week. It's not really true. [TS]

00:11:59   No not if I was it was never under consideration. It might become in the future you know Microsoft. [TS]

00:12:05   There clearly investing very heavily in debt tools [TS]

00:12:08   and trying to reach out to developers who are not right now Microsoft platforms I'm curious to see what they do in in [TS]

00:12:14   those areas. [TS]

00:12:15   Because one thing that almost all these languages lack is a really nice idea for MAC and or for anything really. [TS]

00:12:24   I'm not entirely sure eclipse qualifies for that statement. No I've never used it. [TS]

00:12:29   But from what I've seen of other people using it it has never been in a never appeared as though I want to use it.. [TS]

00:12:35   He said Nokia that roughly X. [TS]

00:12:37   I haven't used it in years so I'm admittedly talking a little bit out of turn but any exposure. [TS]

00:12:43   I've had to it in any exposure. I've had to it by way of other people talking about it. [TS]

00:12:48   I cannot remember a time anyone said anything positive about Eclipse. So anyway. [TS]

00:12:53   I would like to have a nice ID You know like I have one for X. Code for my native applications. [TS]

00:13:00   I've never had one for web apps I have everywhere I have ever written has been written in like a text editor either vi [TS]

00:13:05   a first or Text Mate later. So I've never had a nice tidy with like code completion and. And you know. Inline error. [TS]

00:13:12   Description The never and never had that I would love that. Never had that. Never had the luxury of a real debugger. [TS]

00:13:18   Wall writing web apps. That would also be nice. Never had it. [TS]

00:13:21   And with all the new languages that I'm that I've been playing with her that I've been investigating. [TS]

00:13:26   Almost none of them offer that in a reasonable way. [TS]

00:13:28   So all that being said I might consider Microsoft off in the future depending on the direction they go with their tools. [TS]

00:13:36   But right now it is not an owners that aeration. I looked at rust. And I looked at go and I read up I didn't. [TS]

00:13:42   I didn't actually try writing any code in rust so you know that's a giant. Disclaimer at the beginning. [TS]

00:13:48   I looked at both of those the. [TS]

00:13:49   Those seem like the two that everyone said Orde with the third option of Python where everyone says heater do isn't [TS]

00:13:54   part blankets go to this. Or do it in rust or go. [TS]

00:13:57   There's a lot of debate between Rush people and go people about which one is better. [TS]

00:14:02   And a few people have have tried both and have given given more useful opinions. [TS]

00:14:07   Not a lot of written about it I haven't found a whole lot of posts about those. [TS]

00:14:11   I think rust in the long term will probably be more common. [TS]

00:14:16   It certainly has a long way to go it's still very much a beta [TS]

00:14:19   and it shows in a lot of the documentation in the tools and everything it's not. [TS]

00:14:24   It will clearly be a lot better in the future. But rust also seems very much. Very close to swift and C. [TS]

00:14:31   Plus plus style of language preferences which really is not my style. [TS]

00:14:37   It might become my style later on but it currently isn't just a whole like rusty. [TS]

00:14:41   It just seemed like it added a quite a lot of complexity that I that conflicted with what I actually wanted. [TS]

00:14:47   There are a lot of things about of I like. [TS]

00:14:49   I like the idea of the mutability being part of the language that's of that's a big one. I really. I would love that. [TS]

00:14:55   And I like some of the type tricks you can do. Most of them I wouldn't need. Go is a lot more basic. [TS]

00:15:03   It's a lot smaller of a language. And not to say two hundred danced. But the. [TS]

00:15:10   The things the language will do for you are much more limited. Most of the time. [TS]

00:15:14   I fall on the side of the way they did it is one of the reason the chose to move forward with that language. [TS]

00:15:19   Anyway so far. It is really nice. There's. There are parts about it that are weird. It is not like a clear. [TS]

00:15:27   Oh my God this is perfect for every language. I can already tell. [TS]

00:15:31   I'm probably not going to want to be writing the whole but appen this. [TS]

00:15:35   If I was writing a new web app from scratch I would consider it. But it is. [TS]

00:15:40   I don't think there's any reason for me to rewrite the whole overcast what happened go. You know just. [TS]

00:15:44   I think I think it's a way for me to get rid of these hot spots. And it's about it. [TS]

00:15:48   But there's Or it's a there's a lot to like there I really like it I'm glad I'm trying it. [TS]

00:15:52   And I'm going to keep going with it where it makes sense to. [TS]

00:15:56   So did you use a go routines and channels and everything for your. Yep. For your. [TS]

00:16:01   You know what he called sort of a vent Looper placement type thing. Yeah. It's entirely their routines and channels. [TS]

00:16:06   That's good I was best talking about like what the kind of event libraries where you go I knew they had some weird [TS]

00:16:10   concurrency thing but I can remember what it was off the top my head. But that's. I mean for a small language. [TS]

00:16:16   It's kind of a hog that was not odd but like it's this expresses the philosophy of go blind small. [TS]

00:16:22   It's kind of like see it done better [TS]

00:16:23   but they determined that that concerns the stuff was important enough to actually add to a language that otherwise [TS]

00:16:30   being kept very small not says a lot about sort of the intended use of the language. [TS]

00:16:34   And why I think it's probably a good fit for you know Google doing server side stuff and for you doing the polar. [TS]

00:16:39   Yeah exactly. I mean. I love the concurrency stuff. [TS]

00:16:42   Somebody I stated earlier this is genius somebody else somebody point actually a number he pointed out on Twitter [TS]

00:16:47   earlier that this is not at all new. It's called Is it C.S.P. [TS]

00:16:52   Concurrent sequential processes I think some way that it's a concurrency model to go uses communicating sequential [TS]

00:16:57   processes that to thank you. Mitchy in the chat. So to me I like this model a lot it is not perfect. [TS]

00:17:04   It seems more complicated. Once you get into Iraq as though this is actually really nice. [TS]

00:17:10   There's a lot of concurrency baggage the usually have to worry about like walking [TS]

00:17:14   and threading that you just don't need to really worry about. If you. If you do it the way you're supposed to do it. [TS]

00:17:20   And it's really it's. It's easy to do things like earlier. I added. You know. [TS]

00:17:25   And I for ever since the very beginning I had a limit on how many crawls can be running in parallel at any one time [TS]

00:17:33   and that's very easy to do with channels. [TS]

00:17:35   Just you know earlier tonight I added a second limit to how many per per host you can be running at once why don't have [TS]

00:17:42   because earlier I crawled like all the feeds to a couple of big hosts [TS]

00:17:46   and got blocked immediately like two thousand connections open one looked at it. So that one out the window. [TS]

00:17:54   But that was really easy to add to like just. It's this quick little you know. [TS]

00:17:59   Make make a channel for every host and here's an array of channels and. [TS]

00:18:03   When he started push one onto it and when you and pop one off of it and here's the buffalo and that's it like it's. [TS]

00:18:07   It's really for doing stuff like that this. This concurrency model is really nice. It. [TS]

00:18:13   It is and what I like about it is that it is very new it is unlike any concurrency models I've worked with in the past. [TS]

00:18:20   And so it is intellectually stimulating it is educational. And for this task it's really good. So you seem pleased. [TS]

00:18:28   Overall yeah I mean other said. [TS]

00:18:29   It is it is it does have weirdnesses to it like there are certain things about it I'm just like really. [TS]

00:18:35   That like that's what I have to do or you don't support that. [TS]

00:18:39   But you know the part of this is just me and the use of language. [TS]

00:18:42   Ask me again in six months how it feels like his language. All right. [TS]

00:18:47   Anything else on this or would you like to tell me about something cool. We're sponsored this week first by. [TS]

00:18:52   Casper Casper is an online retailer of premium mattresses for a fraction of the price. [TS]

00:18:58   The mattress industry has inherent we force consumers in the paying a Tory Asli high markups Kaspar of evolution as in [TS]

00:19:04   the business. [TS]

00:19:04   By cutting the cost of dealing with resellers in showrooms [TS]

00:19:07   and passing the savings directly to you a Casper mattress provides resilience and long lasting support of comfort. [TS]

00:19:14   It's one of a kind it's a new kind of hybrid mattress. That combines premium latex foam with memory foam. [TS]

00:19:19   To get you a nice balance of both. And the benefits of both. [TS]

00:19:24   So mattresses that often cost well over fifteen hundred dollars caster mattresses cost of hundred five hundred for a [TS]

00:19:30   twin. Six hundred for a twin X.L. Seven fifty for full eight fifty for Queen. Nine fifty for King. [TS]

00:19:36   Those are amazing prices. I have bought high end mattresses before I can tell you that. [TS]

00:19:40   They generally cost about double that for anything reasonably great. And Casper is really good so Casper understands. [TS]

00:19:47   Buying a mattress online can have consumers wondering how this is possible. So it's completely. Risk free. [TS]

00:19:55   They deliver it to your house. They return it. They will take returned with a one hundred day period. [TS]

00:20:01   So it's that simple. So you know. [TS]

00:20:02   If you're going to lie and lie in a bed in the showroom for a few minutes at a mattress store. [TS]

00:20:06   It's really hard to tell whether it's right for you in fact the last mattress I bought for a guest room. [TS]

00:20:10   We totally bought the wrong mattress and within one night. [TS]

00:20:14   Of having it home and we tested it out to make sure it was good and we really know. [TS]

00:20:18   This isn't that great we might have made a mistake [TS]

00:20:20   and it we regret having bought that mattress now because like we only try to for a few minutes in the showroom. [TS]

00:20:25   With Casper. They ship it to your door. You can try it for one hundred days. And if you don't like it. [TS]

00:20:31   They will arrange for delivery. Back to them. It's really quite good so. Casper is an obsessive engineered mattress. [TS]

00:20:38   At a shockingly fair price. It has just the right sink. Just the right balance. [TS]

00:20:43   Latex foam and memory foam are used together. For better nights and brighter days. Everything I said was risk free. [TS]

00:20:50   Try it for one hundred days. Free Delivery and painless returns. Casper's mattresses are made in America. [TS]

00:20:57   Also very unusual for this business. And once again the prices are amazing. [TS]

00:21:01   Starting in just five hundred bucks for Twin going up to nine fifty for King. [TS]

00:21:05   Those are fantastic compared to things like memory foam and high end spring mattresses. [TS]

00:21:09   You can get fifty bucks off a mattress purchased by visiting Casper dot com slash A.T.P. [TS]

00:21:14   That C A S P E R dot com slash A.T.P. and Use code. A.T.P. At checkout. Fifty bucks off. [TS]

00:21:21   Thanks a lot to Casper for sponsoring our show once again. So. Marketed anything happen this week. [TS]

00:21:26   Note that we really not talking about it because we don't have to we talk about it if you want to mean I don't know [TS]

00:21:32   that much more to say on it as so I wrote this blog post called Apple has lost a functional high ground. [TS]

00:21:39   A title I'm regretting. Because I actually of all the complaints people had about the piece. [TS]

00:21:47   I think the title was was probably the least valid complaint about it [TS]

00:21:51   but I don't think the title was that far off the truth. [TS]

00:21:53   Can you explain the title to me because that was the part that I was most confused on your post. [TS]

00:21:57   So the title was you know the Apple has lost the functional high ground so this is a play on the concept of the moral [TS]

00:22:02   high ground. I don't explain I do I know you don't display in the functional I got. So Apple stuff. [TS]

00:22:10   You know it used to be that Apple stuff. Generally by a pretty long shot worked better than P.C. Slash Android. [TS]

00:22:20   Slash other alternatives. You know people through on their. [TS]

00:22:24   The phrase it just works as an article that was never one hundred percent true. But it was generally true it was. [TS]

00:22:32   It was the general advantage that Apple's stuff had over their competitors that. It was just work better. [TS]

00:22:37   The vast majority of the time. Certain things were more reliable. Simpler more robust cetera and. [TS]

00:22:45   So this gave this gave Apple this. [TS]

00:22:47   What I consider of the functional high ground in the past of like Apple stuff just work better and. [TS]

00:22:53   And it worked so well that I think you could not necessarily hold it over P.C. People but the you knew. [TS]

00:22:59   When you were using an Apple product like. Yeah I got a good one here. [TS]

00:23:03   I got the thing that works best in this industry. [TS]

00:23:06   I think they're there quality problems over the last few years [TS]

00:23:12   when taken together have ruined this image for to a degree [TS]

00:23:15   and so I don't necessarily mean that someone else has become better. [TS]

00:23:21   And that's that's an argument Gruber has are going to fewer people brought up. I think you can lose. [TS]

00:23:27   Like if you know what the moral high ground. I think you can lose the moral high ground. [TS]

00:23:31   Even if no one else takes it from you like losing the moral high ground is like you used to be. [TS]

00:23:36   You know really good morally you have a really good image or have earlier petition and you don't anymore. [TS]

00:23:41   And so [TS]

00:23:42   when I said losing the functional high ground what I meant was in that sense of like they used to have a greater petition [TS]

00:23:48   for this. And now they don't. So I think in that way I think the title was actually pretty fair. [TS]

00:23:54   What do you think I would have used the word functional. [TS]

00:23:56   Because I think I was was throwing me now hearing your explanation I think my conception of it kept focusing more on [TS]

00:24:01   the definition of functional maybe I would go with like reliability is not really over go on for it but anyway. [TS]

00:24:08   I probably would have made a high ground knowledge title [TS]

00:24:10   but down to do you explain that I understand what you're getting at that we can go on to the explaining the body of [TS]

00:24:15   your thing because I think. I cut you off with the title part. [TS]

00:24:19   Well but no that wasn't that was important because a lot of people argued about the title. [TS]

00:24:23   And I do think the title was not really the bad part. You know that the part that I regret. [TS]

00:24:30   Was the overall I'd maybe sensational maybe alarmist I don't know how to say it. So. So the post was basically saying. [TS]

00:24:39   Apple stuff doesn't work very well anymore. I think the problem is the problem. [TS]

00:24:44   You know I saw their hardware quality is fantastic recently with their software quality is really not. [TS]

00:24:49   And every July I said it's taken a nosedive. That was. That's the word I regret the most because that. [TS]

00:24:56   That kind of that that suggests the wrong. Excel or ation rate or trajectory of of the decline. Like. [TS]

00:25:04   I think Apple software is on a steady decline. [TS]

00:25:08   And it's been going that way for a while a nosedive is like a sudden drop. [TS]

00:25:12   You know precariously you know perceptively whatever the right word of a sudden rapidly tolerating drop. [TS]

00:25:18   I don't think that is what's happening. I think it's been a slow decline. [TS]

00:25:22   And there's no signs of a turning around really definitely is a slow decline of their software quality [TS]

00:25:28   and part of it is services quality worked in with that [TS]

00:25:31   but I allot of it really just the software itself at the local software running on the on the on the machines which is [TS]

00:25:37   really unfortunate. And so you know a few of the words like I said. I said riddled with bugs. [TS]

00:25:44   I don't think it's riddled with bugs. It has bugs you know. [TS]

00:25:47   There are certain words that are more severe than the need to be. [TS]

00:25:51   But overall I stand by the the message that I was saying which is this stuff is not working as well as it used to it [TS]

00:25:58   you know. Now we need to be very cautious when we install updates. [TS]

00:26:02   And the fact is it used to be better and that worries me. My theory is that marketing priorities and again. [TS]

00:26:10   It's important to point out the a fine distinction here. Not the marketing department. [TS]

00:26:15   As some sites quoted as which I never said. Marketing priorities. At Apple. Seem to be dictating that the software. [TS]

00:26:24   Must keep pace with the annual hardware releases. Or that there must be an annual software release. [TS]

00:26:30   That has marketing value that helps the product with with cross marketing between different you know between the max [TS]

00:26:36   and the i Phones [TS]

00:26:36   and new i Phones come out of also all these new all these new software he believes that go along with brand new i OS X. [TS]

00:26:43   and That was X. Meaning like energy or not not mispronouncing ten. With zero S. Ten. Anyway. [TS]

00:26:51   My my opinion is that Apple quality has gone downhill in the last few years. [TS]

00:26:57   And they should they shouldn't be keeping up with this. [TS]

00:27:02   Like artificial and you will release schedule for major O.S.'s because that is just not. [TS]

00:27:07   It's not producing good quality software you know it used to be like the. The ten point. X. Point zero. Releases. [TS]

00:27:15   Although we have to like you know ten point X. Point three or four were sometimes on stable or at least had some bugs. [TS]

00:27:22   Usually by the time you got to like ten point six point four five. [TS]

00:27:25   It was pretty rock solid you could pretty much depend on it [TS]

00:27:28   and then you know they were with some of the previous releases they would get all the way up to like you know Ted point [TS]

00:27:32   X. Point seven eight or nine. [TS]

00:27:35   Because they were just around for longer [TS]

00:27:37   and so by the time like so there'd be a couple of months of instability at the beginning of a new US release. [TS]

00:27:42   But then a few months in like you were fine and. [TS]

00:27:45   It was rock stable fight the next eighteen months before there was really a new one. [TS]

00:27:50   And now it seems like we're always using a one point zero or one point one. [TS]

00:27:56   Like every release that we're using from Apple because they're the major of nature moving so quickly [TS]

00:28:01   and get so many changes and each one. It's like. It's not like we're always using a beta. But it's close. It's. [TS]

00:28:09   It's like we're always using a point zero or zero point one and. [TS]

00:28:13   You feel that in a lot of ways [TS]

00:28:15   and one of the errors I made was I didn't actually list any of those ways in this post but it's. [TS]

00:28:19   It's almost there's too many to list. Glenn Pfeiffer murder really article today. [TS]

00:28:23   He actually solicited people from Twitter that you know. Tell him like make me. [TS]

00:28:28   Make me a list tell me all of things that are common problems for everybody. [TS]

00:28:31   And he puts it a good thing I'll put in the show notes and. It's hard. [TS]

00:28:35   There isn't like a one thing you know if somebody. If somebody asked me like a what. [TS]

00:28:39   What one thing he's working on or you know one thing. Needs to be improved here. [TS]

00:28:44   There is no one thing there are a million. Tiny things. [TS]

00:28:47   And a few big things that just don't work very well or have bugs sometimes and. [TS]

00:28:55   I don't you can't tell it's hard to tell if Apple. Think this is a problem. [TS]

00:29:00   Or if they think the course they're on is OK. I remember when I talked about first of all. And I say. [TS]

00:29:07   This is a bit interesting demonstration there's between pod casting and blocking. [TS]

00:29:11   Because we have all three of us talked about all these things for like what is it over a year now I can see you know it [TS]

00:29:18   is not as if this is a sudden realization the market woke up one day and said My God I mean. [TS]

00:29:22   But when Mark says it on the podcast or with him progress nobody here that boat gets written down [TS]

00:29:26   and you know it's part of his just like luck of the draw of like having to catch on and go viral or whatever [TS]

00:29:31   but it is interesting to me that like if someone as a regular listener to the show [TS]

00:29:35   and reads that blog post to be like Yeah I've heard Marcus said a million times. [TS]

00:29:39   And so it's not it's not like a revelation but then suddenly you know I think that's that's a thing. [TS]

00:29:43   I wasn't saying anything that I thought was particularly noteworthy like or original. [TS]

00:29:47   It was almost like like those kind of things like this goes two ways both of us do this day and. Well. [TS]

00:29:51   Back when I used to blog in cases like two ways where sometimes you know write something up on your site. [TS]

00:29:56   And then you'll talk about it on the podcast [TS]

00:29:58   and sometimes we'll talk about something on the podcast then after the body guess you'll sort of write up a centrally a [TS]

00:30:03   more coherent summary of what was discussed in this. [TS]

00:30:06   Definitely felt like you know after talking about this for weeks or months [TS]

00:30:10   or whatever you call it was time for a blog post about it and you more [TS]

00:30:13   or less summarize all of things that you'd said on on past August or whatever [TS]

00:30:16   and I just felt like that thing you do where like. [TS]

00:30:18   Sometimes it comes or is in the pocket some kind sourcing of like well talk about the matter stuff later [TS]

00:30:22   but I just I just thought that was interesting. And speaking of podcasts. [TS]

00:30:25   One of the things that people read that reminded me that existed because I'm old Never again I was hyper critical I was [TS]

00:30:32   a fifty five. [TS]

00:30:33   Region of pain which was back around the mountain lion talking about a mountain lion and maybe at the announcement [TS]

00:30:38   or talking about him or view. The title comes from the idea that. [TS]

00:30:43   Marco just articulated which is with yearly releases of my. [TS]

00:30:47   What my word on that show was is the always going to have enough time to mature because the point I was there always [TS]

00:30:53   crap. Right and then. Point one point two is like it takes a while to settle down. Right. [TS]

00:30:57   And if you're going to happen. They're going to happen every year. It does do yearly releases. Give the O.-S. [TS]

00:31:03   Enough time to settle down or are we always going to be in what I call the region of pain because it's always crap [TS]

00:31:09   when THE POINT all comes out like no matter how long they hold it like you just you know it's. [TS]

00:31:13   And is always some instability. Sometimes long sometimes short. That was in two thousand and twelve. [TS]

00:31:20   The beginning of two thousand and twelve. At this point. I would say that we know for zero S. Ten. That the O. S. [TS]

00:31:26   Does get out of the region of pain because we do reach the point four point five. [TS]

00:31:30   But what Marco's thing was talking about is. All right we exit the region of pain. [TS]

00:31:36   How long do we get in the nice part before it's not like they're run into each other it's not like it just bugs [TS]

00:31:42   or not because Mavericks was not just like a total disaster right before you know seventy came out at least for most [TS]

00:31:48   people I mean there are exceptions people that rise since I know this feature X. Never worked on Mavericks or my G.P. [TS]

00:31:52   Always kernel back on Mavericks or whatever like. [TS]

00:31:55   That is true and that has always happened and that's unfortunate but for most people like Mavericks had settled down. [TS]

00:32:02   But how long did you get with the sell down Mavericks was it was it the majority of the year. Definitely not right. [TS]

00:32:08   Was it. Less than half a year with a one month to month right. And that I think. When I'm looking at this. [TS]

00:32:14   You know we've talked all the things before. The the change for Teague. [TS]

00:32:18   Not just the bugs we take the bug to going but also the change for T. As in even if everything works perfectly. [TS]

00:32:25   I don't know if I'm ready for everything to change how it works again like not everything [TS]

00:32:28   but you know people who don't want to tie a change like the change for to combine with the sure. [TS]

00:32:34   Very short periods of role of stability and calm. [TS]

00:32:38   That I think more than like the quality of the software [TS]

00:32:41   or any kind of metric you could put on it like number above Exe. [TS]

00:32:45   In the point releases or number of bugs enough on releases or severity of bugs or anything like that. [TS]

00:32:50   I think that more than anything. Characterizes the dissatisfaction I've heard from a lot of people about. [TS]

00:32:57   Apple is that. Especially on the Mac. I want to talk about Iowa separate but the mac. [TS]

00:33:02   Is different because on the mac I think the third thing that comes into the into this equation of change are to ignite [TS]

00:33:09   a long time [TS]

00:33:10   and at appears to belittle also the final question is Who are you chasing Who are you chasing with the Yearly Kos ten [TS]

00:33:16   updates like why you feel like. All right. Android Samsung. You've got people bring down your neck. [TS]

00:33:23   It's an exploding market. It's super competitive. [TS]

00:33:26   You've got to do what you got to do [TS]

00:33:27   and that's that's the marketing parties that are there was talking about it for the macro it's like yearly releases. [TS]

00:33:34   If you can pull it off. [TS]

00:33:35   Fine I think they prove they can pull off we can make yearly releases each ones have interesting features they [TS]

00:33:40   eventually settle down to civility like they can do it. But the cost is like a lease half the year. [TS]

00:33:47   You're dealing with like a baby O. S. [TS]

00:33:49   That has a bunch of bugs then you get a period stability and as soon as everything's OK. [TS]

00:33:52   Here comes the new one and like they can do it they can get them out on time. [TS]

00:33:56   They're not they're not like I was tied to hardware like they just basically well you know Sammy's not ready we're to [TS]

00:34:01   shut that later like it's not like there's a yearly update of Macs of the trying to sync with you know so it's not it's [TS]

00:34:06   not exactly tied to that it's just that like. It's almost like a corporate stunts like not. Not like a you know. [TS]

00:34:14   Stunt like sort of like saying. [TS]

00:34:16   Our organization is so well we can revise in release yearly updates to a massive you know consumer operating system. [TS]

00:34:23   Yes you can. And you can get it done. And during the course of its life it will settle down to stability. [TS]

00:34:30   But it still may be too much like it still may be like why why do you think we need a new one of these every single [TS]

00:34:34   year. We would prefer to have an entire year of boringness instead of four months of boring us. [TS]

00:34:41   Yeah I agree [TS]

00:34:41   and I wrote a small kind of response post to Marco's post which is mostly irrelevant except that a few people emailed [TS]

00:34:49   me and one of them said. [TS]

00:34:51   And I don't have the amount from me something on lines of Well it's really the yearly thing that's the problem. [TS]

00:34:56   Or is it that there's so much stuff in each release new stuff. [TS]

00:35:00   In each release and I think that's a fair point that you could argue that you could. You could just put less. [TS]

00:35:06   In each of these releases but potentially keep this super aggressive yearly cycle but I don't just seems to me that. [TS]

00:35:15   That's not really the choice that Apple would make is just have like one marquee feature in the rest of the new S.P. [TS]

00:35:22   Otherwise on remarkable. And the other thing I'd like to point out is friend of the show Ben Thompson in the chat says. [TS]

00:35:29   The problem is that Apple needs to be rate faster on the cloud stuff and slower on the software [TS]

00:35:34   but by keeping them all linked together they're making both worst cloud is still too slow software is now too fast [TS]

00:35:39   and I think that's a really steep oint that we really could use a lot of help on the Services side although again we [TS]

00:35:45   definitely need some help on the desktop side as well. And just keeping keeping the desktop. [TS]

00:35:52   And the and the mobile operating systems inextricably linked like Apple is it just seems. [TS]

00:36:00   It seems like it's kind of tough to keep everything moving. Effectively that way. [TS]

00:36:06   Now what I'd be curious to hear you guys is take on is a lot of people said well. [TS]

00:36:10   They OK let's assume that Apple says well the hell with yearly releases. [TS]

00:36:14   What happens for things like continuity that really are integrating. Both the desktop and the end I.O.'s. [TS]

00:36:23   Wouldn't she want them to happen simultaneously Now the comedy of this question is that I believe pieces of continuity [TS]

00:36:29   did not happen simultaneously in there ARE point releases to Yosemite to enable it but I don't like. [TS]

00:36:34   Doesn't it kind of make sense to have everything packaged together at the same moment in time. [TS]

00:36:39   Well for certain things yes but. Hey I don't think those things should really come up every year as you know. [TS]

00:36:46   Big things that require this massive cordon ation between all the O S's I don't think should [TS]

00:36:50   or will come of every year and be. You have to ask. At what cost. So you know. [TS]

00:36:58   Would you drive a car that had really great features added to it every day but occasionally explode like. [TS]

00:37:05   There's certain things that just like are not worth it you know and what. What I think has has really shaken. [TS]

00:37:10   A lot of my faith and Apple software quality recently. Is is not like oh this button looks weird. [TS]

00:37:17   Every so often it's like basic stuff that I that I take for granted as like this always works. [TS]

00:37:24   Doesn't work anymore or works or radically like one of my biggest complaints with your Samedi is with networking. [TS]

00:37:31   Issues. Usually with network discovery of resources or connectivity to network resources to local network resources. [TS]

00:37:38   There's something about the way they revert discovery due to to enable continuity slash airdrop whatever whatever it is. [TS]

00:37:45   It has made it extremely unreliable for things like network shares network printers to fight that we would have made [TS]

00:37:51   fun of Windows people so badly. Beef. If their network shares or disappeared. [TS]

00:37:56   You know every so often and or they had sixteen copies of the same computer on the network and like. [TS]

00:38:02   These are issues that we have on your Samedi every day that are widespread issues lots of people have these issues. [TS]

00:38:08   And it's like this is the basics. The basics are messed up now. You know the O.-S. Isn't crashing for most people like. [TS]

00:38:15   We're not getting kernel panics. Fortunately. But you know. [TS]

00:38:19   We are having a lot of weird little behaviors like that that just just things that seem basic similar to like [TS]

00:38:27   when I.O.'s broke. Touch ID and phone calls. Like you know. [TS]

00:38:32   Seems basic right [TS]

00:38:33   and whatever the cause of that was that there was a you know delivery issue where I don't I don't care what the cause [TS]

00:38:37   was the fact is like. You can't trust the basics anymore like that that I think is is scary and it. That's the kind of. [TS]

00:38:46   That's what I'm talking about I'm talking about Apple losing repeat Haitian from this is like. [TS]

00:38:52   You know nobody cares if things. You know don't quite look right or have some brand new feature. [TS]

00:38:58   Doesn't quite work immediately like healthcare launched. [TS]

00:39:02   It apparently I don't know much about I have I don't try to use it [TS]

00:39:05   but apparently the condition of health kit at launch was a complete disaster. I don't know if it sticks and then. [TS]

00:39:11   But it was like it was. It basically launch like not working at all if you didn't Apple. [TS]

00:39:17   I remember the head of just all the apps for it and hold and delay them anyway. Big disaster will help get. [TS]

00:39:22   That's less of it that's embarrassing. Certainly. But that's less important than. [TS]

00:39:28   If you break a fundamental things like if if a new thing you promised isn't quite here yet like the the mac Photos app [TS]

00:39:34   isn't here yet they promised. That's not that big of a deal. Like the stuff we've been using before. [TS]

00:39:39   Will continue to work for a while like it. We're not losing functionality by that being late. [TS]

00:39:45   But if they ship the photos thing. [TS]

00:39:48   And it was horrible and all of a sudden [TS]

00:39:50   and it took over like the way it the back hard drive like migrate player stuff over and you can't go back [TS]

00:39:54   and all of a sudden like every so often you just lose a random photo. Like if it was busting. [TS]

00:40:00   I can't mess with the basics and. The problem is that even the basics now. Get messed with on a high in a frequency. [TS]

00:40:09   From these constant relentless. [TS]

00:40:11   Big updates that the fundamentals are shaky now [TS]

00:40:16   and that's really that's unsettling in actually assessing I didn't talk about this [TS]

00:40:20   when I was discussing earlier I said a lot of people feel that the quality is decline but [TS]

00:40:24   when I take my personal assessment of where the quality is declined. [TS]

00:40:29   I think it comes just from having a longer view and having lived through lots of different cycles [TS]

00:40:33   and having lived through. Times when it was way way worse. Like before I stand with you guys might not remember. [TS]

00:40:40   I don't really think that things are worse now than they had ever been or that there's actually been a decline [TS]

00:40:46   and not to say that I disagree with the sentiment of your post because I think it is a good senator. I you know. [TS]

00:40:51   I endorse the sentiment except for it like it doesn't hinge on this being a new low. It merely. [TS]

00:40:57   It merely hinges on the idea that you think the current situation is not acceptable which I agree with. [TS]

00:41:02   And it's not acceptable because the apple today is not the apple that it was before the context is different they have [TS]

00:41:06   more platforms they have different platforms their platforms that are more why. [TS]

00:41:09   It's spread we use computers more often so on and so forth so I don't think the. [TS]

00:41:14   There has been a decline in quality or any of the things you said about basic features not working it's like that [TS]

00:41:20   but I think it should change because the context in which Apple is running its business and deploying its products. [TS]

00:41:27   Is very different today and the one place where I would say things are slowly getting worse. [TS]

00:41:33   Overall I don't think they are because I got bills been doing better in lots of areas [TS]

00:41:36   but the one area where there are definite doing worse is as Apple again goes be a repeat of anyone's list of the show [TS]

00:41:42   for any length of time sort of a million times there we go again. As Apple products. [TS]

00:41:47   Integrate more [TS]

00:41:47   and more network functionality as that becomes a larger percentage of what you do with your phone with your with you [TS]

00:41:54   know it basically as i Cloud becomes more integrated as. As more of the network services. [TS]

00:41:59   Stuff becomes part of Apple's products. [TS]

00:42:02   Apple has not been getting better at that stuff fast enough [TS]

00:42:05   and it's becoming a larger percentage of their product therefore it's dragging down the average. Because whatever. [TS]

00:42:09   You know whatever product or technology you have does it involve cloud crap. Up. [TS]

00:42:13   Well now you know it's like it's they can classes bringing down the average of bed test grades right. [TS]

00:42:18   And every single one of their products. [TS]

00:42:21   Now has either a small cloud component or a big con component [TS]

00:42:24   or like it the whole friggin thing is a lot of components of that cloud part doesn't work it doesn't matter how good to [TS]

00:42:28   be all right the caller on the client side. [TS]

00:42:30   If the server side is falling over and [TS]

00:42:33   and this is the type of thing they can get huge all Mike on the basics are anymore [TS]

00:42:35   and so for example earlier this week no I said my contacts aren't sinking anymore I had a contact on my new i Pad Air. [TS]

00:42:42   I had it like a week ago it's still not on my mac are on the i Phone [TS]

00:42:46   and everything without correctly all know say my cot account nothing has changed everything is all think that [TS]

00:42:51   everyone's all logged in there's no errors or anything is [TS]

00:42:53   and I'm so now looking at here on the i Pad change the street address. Here it as the i Phone in the mac. [TS]

00:42:59   It's not change and you just stare at me like why. Why is this a problem is the biggest owner of buggy clients offer. [TS]

00:43:04   Almost certainly not right. It's but then you perceive this as. All my god the basics aren't working anymore. [TS]

00:43:11   Because cloud functionality is now a basic it's something like you just expect I like my contacts are also going to [TS]

00:43:16   cause everything that's the bar now and. Apple has really bad at that part of doing its products. [TS]

00:43:22   And it's really bad at making a situation where you can do [TS]

00:43:24   but like what I've been doing that situation you know I did a little dense that everybody does you just like sign out [TS]

00:43:29   of i Cloud turn contacts off turn contacts back on add a new contact. [TS]

00:43:33   You know just to see if it's sinking you know it like delete all i Cloud a different account sign.. [TS]

00:43:38   Signed Bulliet of I caught in a delete a million photos from a shared photo stream so i Mac. [TS]

00:43:43   Turn it back on a much a grind for three hours loading those photos back in you know. [TS]

00:43:47   You'll eventually start singing again then you can. You know like it's just this dance that you do. [TS]

00:43:52   And that infuriates be able so that part of Apple's products I think is getting better. [TS]

00:43:56   Only because the percentage of cloudy stuff in software has been going up [TS]

00:44:00   and Apple has Apple's ability to do cloud East. Well if not you know up and going up. No question there services. [TS]

00:44:06   Still need work you know they've always that they've always been you know mediocre at that most of the service stuff [TS]

00:44:10   but they and they still need work but. [TS]

00:44:12   Most of the problems that I'm complaining about [TS]

00:44:14   and I've been seeing over the last couple years actually aren't because of the services like. [TS]

00:44:18   Even the local client side software is problematic in the last few [TS]

00:44:22   but I think that's basically better than it has been in recent years resident worse. [TS]

00:44:27   Solve all the things you've complained about I think back to the disaster is that where the early versions of Tiger [TS]

00:44:31   or leopard unlike you don't know for not working that working you know from beach ball. [TS]

00:44:35   Finder let me tell you it was you know. [TS]

00:44:37   It was dire and I can just forget about classic megalithic that was a total mess in the later years of its life. So. [TS]

00:44:44   And a lot of the times. There. If you can fault them for one of things they've done in recent releases. [TS]

00:44:49   One place I would say you could fault them for example [TS]

00:44:51   and I just saw Greyhawk American plan about this today is where they do a feature. [TS]

00:44:56   That seems like it's not like a marketing feature [TS]

00:44:59   but it's a feature they can put on a box that is a perfectly good feature to do [TS]

00:45:03   but that almost nobody is willing to accept the restack during needed to implement the features of one of the example [TS]

00:45:11   was like tags which detailed and whatever but did that come out and like a mountain lion [TS]

00:45:16   or something talk about the implication of tags and how is this crazy hack based on the label thing all the stuff like. [TS]

00:45:20   All right fine if you're not can use tags so what it does look like is a big deal. [TS]

00:45:24   It doesn't seem like it would impact anything it's like you're just piggybacking on existing crazy Echaveste plus [TS]

00:45:29   meditate and is all these weird bugs about it but if I don't use tax doesn't affect me right. [TS]

00:45:33   Well apparently the something having to do with network shares where it makes a tag queer. Request There. [TS]

00:45:37   Something and that hangs like it hangs the whole thing and you get a beach ball in the Finder [TS]

00:45:41   and Elvis on people who don't know [TS]

00:45:43   and don't care about tags are getting a worse experience in the Finder for a teacher [TS]

00:45:47   or a feature they didn't even care about that type of thing is like. [TS]

00:45:50   That's an engineering thing where you have to decide. It's OK to have new features. But we really have to balance. [TS]

00:45:57   Like does a new feature require like oh [TS]

00:45:59   and by the way now just every time I bring them that we're share we have to do this other thing [TS]

00:46:02   and it had blocks like it's a problem. [TS]

00:46:05   I don't know how you there that's that's that's a type of thing where [TS]

00:46:10   when you're planning the future for an ass you really have to talk about and say this is a great feature. [TS]

00:46:15   We've wanted this for a long time I think it'll be interesting. [TS]

00:46:18   It's a good bullet point to add to the bottom not exist in box will do slides about it and and have a nice demo [TS]

00:46:24   and stuff. [TS]

00:46:25   Oh and by the way does this potentially compromise any basic functionality that everybody needs [TS]

00:46:30   and if the answer to that is yes really think real long and hard about the tradeoffs there. [TS]

00:46:35   That is the closest I think I can get to saying. [TS]

00:46:38   Like a sort of potentially marketing driven decision that has led to sort of unacceptable instability [TS]

00:46:45   and basic functionality and a lot of the historic things have meant like. [TS]

00:46:48   We want to add some minor feature but it means totally refactoring this. The subsystem. [TS]

00:46:52   And sometimes it's like oh that's bad because it's going to cause bugs BUT example of the good is like. [TS]

00:46:57   I think in Yosemite they totally read it I can service has and it. [TS]

00:47:01   Desperately needed to be redone because for years that have been these icon services bugs the cause of all my company [TS]

00:47:07   pixilated and there was no way out of any just trying to purge and caches and restarting and eventually would go away [TS]

00:47:12   or maybe not. That's what have a thing where it's like. [TS]

00:47:15   It really important to fix the bug that's cosmetic it's not a big deal [TS]

00:47:18   but the fix that we had to rewrite the entire icon services thing will eventually got it eventually got to get around [TS]

00:47:23   to it [TS]

00:47:23   and I'm glad they did get around to it so I don't want to be afraid to do that until like three just like oh we can't [TS]

00:47:27   change anything we can't anything that we're you know Discovery Day. That would mean totally changing discovered. [TS]

00:47:32   To do continuity. I don't think that in and of itself is a bad thing. [TS]

00:47:35   But again if that means for people learning a new continuity. [TS]

00:47:39   Because discovery does the other jobs as well a compromise then you've got to be really careful by you make those [TS]

00:47:43   changes. Yeah. [TS]

00:47:44   You know I'd like to go back a step though and in you were saying well it was much worse early on you know. In gosh. [TS]

00:47:51   Classic macro S. Was ridiculous with stability. [TS]

00:47:54   But the problem I have with what you're saying even though it's surely correct. [TS]

00:47:57   Is that there's so many new mac users not even count myself in that category I mean I came to to the Macin two thousand [TS]

00:48:04   and six thousand and eight some like I don't remember. But for me. [TS]

00:48:09   Even in my short almost instant testimony small tenure as a mac user as compared to you John. [TS]

00:48:15   I can tell you that just my feeling of the quality of less ten releases. [TS]

00:48:21   Is exactly what we're really all of us are saying is that with each with each new release I feel like it's getting kind [TS]

00:48:29   not from your but more fragile. Bunch of thank you guys you two are just traveling. The the curve of your apple usage. [TS]

00:48:38   What I mean like sort of like you know. Curiosity excitement. Marriage honeymoon period. [TS]

00:48:45   I don't know you know you know me like that like they don't want to talk about a cycle was he a veteran for a long time [TS]

00:48:50   you've gone through that's like like seven times already and I think collectively. [TS]

00:48:54   Because like the mac used to be like this exclusive thing that now a lot of people had [TS]

00:48:58   and we all loved it it was great and then there was the honeymoon period and things started to get a gram [TS]

00:49:02   and then it's like oh maybe System seven brings us new life [TS]

00:49:05   and then Windows ninety five game was like that was our hitting bottom you know it's like. [TS]

00:49:09   We've gone through the cycle helped as it was small but the. The huge influx of Apple customers now. [TS]

00:49:13   There's a whole it's kind of like the baby boom there's a whole generation of Apple users. [TS]

00:49:17   Most of whom came on board either because the i Phone or the i Pod. Who are getting into the Apple stuff. [TS]

00:49:22   And who have gone through their excitement and their courtship and their marriage in their honeymoon period. [TS]

00:49:27   And are now kind of settling into bickering old middle age. [TS]

00:49:31   And it's not this is not that this is a cycle of Apple's products and services [TS]

00:49:36   but it's a cycle of a specific cohort of their customers. Because of the huge growth they've had in recent years. [TS]

00:49:41   And that cohort. Is coming into their. You know I'm no longer impressed. [TS]

00:49:47   More than I'm dissatisfied like that I take everything that works I've taken for granted [TS]

00:49:51   and anytime something that didn't work starts. [TS]

00:49:53   Did Work starts and not work and I perceive that as a decline in quality and I'm angry [TS]

00:49:56   and so again I don't think like this perception is wrong [TS]

00:49:59   and they should be talked out of it I think in the context of this massive customer base they have now. [TS]

00:50:03   Apple has to do about it they absolutely have to. They have to realize that it's. [TS]

00:50:06   You know you can't rely on the honeymoon period you have to actually satisfy the customer that you have. [TS]

00:50:10   Congratulations you've got all these customers it's a lot i Phones. [TS]

00:50:13   Now you're selling more Macs and i Pads stuff like that. [TS]

00:50:16   This is their responsibility to fix it so I'm not I'm not saying this as a defense of the company [TS]

00:50:21   and saying that he understands that absolutely do need to change it but from my view. [TS]

00:50:25   You know with the long view I think these the quality things go in cycles [TS]

00:50:29   and there are aspects that need to be addressed. The cloud stuff. [TS]

00:50:32   Thinking hard about the release like on stuff like that [TS]

00:50:34   but I'm not convinced that empirically in anything that you can actually measure you could say that the quality really [TS]

00:50:39   is worse. [TS]

00:50:41   And I may be just an academic point like us why haven't bothered blogging about this does not like I'll point I want to [TS]

00:50:45   argue because it does in the end it doesn't matter if it's worth all of mattresses. [TS]

00:50:49   What the perception is of the customers that you have now and if they're all in the bickering. Middle age period. [TS]

00:50:54   You've got to deal with that you gotta make approx better and the and I think they should be better. [TS]

00:50:57   Like why shouldn't you have the problem is that you're saying that we're all in the bickering middle age period maybe [TS]

00:51:03   Mark when I are cuz I mean he beat me to the mat by three or four years I think but. [TS]

00:51:07   But even new customers and I I can think of a great example but I am extraordinary I know I have friends [TS]

00:51:14   and family members that have come to the MAC much more recently than I only in the last couple years [TS]

00:51:18   and even some that haven't gotten Macs [TS]

00:51:22   but we're thinking about it that are all real I don't know about this anymore because of heard some bad things [TS]

00:51:28   and I've heard that things are going so well that. That's like when the baby boomers like whatever the baby boom. [TS]

00:51:33   Are into our want [TS]

00:51:34   or what they feel like influences the larger society because they are the largest group of people like they influence [TS]

00:51:39   the others so this huge group of existing Apple customers who is now becoming dissatisfied. [TS]

00:51:43   Influence all the people who are interested because all the hear from all the people who are they know who are in this. [TS]

00:51:48   You know you're likely to know a baby boomer because a lot of them. [TS]

00:51:51   And you're likely to know one of these mac users or Apple users who's a kind of on the downswing and dissatisfaction. [TS]

00:51:56   And what you're going to hear from them is like oh. Things are worse now it's crappy. [TS]

00:52:00   I don't like it you know I mean like it's the. It's a network effect type of thing like X. [TS]

00:52:04   Of these things go in cycles. [TS]

00:52:06   And the cycle who are not completely in lockstep [TS]

00:52:08   but it's like waves of people in the influence other people in articles like this and you know the cycle of the ME [TS]

00:52:14   and stuff like that again I don't think that that particularly matters. [TS]

00:52:17   Because the bottom line is they do have quality problems they do need to address they do need to do better because if [TS]

00:52:21   you have this many customers. [TS]

00:52:23   You can't rely on them all to be like Oh gee whiz Apple stuff is so shiny and I love it so much because that. [TS]

00:52:29   That is not sustainable sustainable if you have to do the hard stuff and be reliable and be consistent [TS]

00:52:33   and figure out how to give new features. [TS]

00:52:36   Without compromising stability figure out what you really schedules [TS]

00:52:38   and figure out how to do this cloud stuff more reliably. Well. So first of all let me go back a minute. [TS]

00:52:45   I've been using the Apple. Ecosystem. Starting out with Macs first and then eventually I.O.'s things. [TS]

00:52:52   For actually slightly longer than I ever used P.C.'s. So I were slightly past my twenty year mark of use of computers. [TS]

00:53:00   And it's basically like literally ten years in I switched. So I'm about six months past. [TS]

00:53:06   My twenty year marks I've been using Windows. I use Windows the full time for ten years. [TS]

00:53:11   And then I'm using Apple stuff full time for ten and a half years now and. [TS]

00:53:17   So I think I'm past the point or I mean I guess I can always get older. [TS]

00:53:22   But I think of has the point where this could just be like me having a bad memory of things I don't know [TS]

00:53:29   but I think one of the things that exacerbates this feeling of things getting worse. [TS]

00:53:37   Is that there's so much more that these devices do first of all there's more devices and that's that's a big one. [TS]

00:53:42   That's And. So let's say ninety nine point five percent of the time. [TS]

00:53:47   Things work the way they should and zero point five percent have some kind of bug or failure or doesn't or crash [TS]

00:53:53   or you know some something that something goes wrong. Point five down the time. [TS]

00:53:57   Every every device uses that you have like every time you take your phone in your pocket to use it. [TS]

00:54:01   You're doing that like a hundred times a day. Right. People measured at the law. [TS]

00:54:04   That was the one I was thinking about the products that Apple sells [TS]

00:54:06   and customers that they have into the fact that the we use the computer is more like. It is numerically more. [TS]

00:54:13   But like press. Percentage wise like they're not producing more bugs per line of code or. You know whatever is just a. [TS]

00:54:20   There's more code. [TS]

00:54:21   It will use it more often and I should also emphasize I haven't seen this chat room yet [TS]

00:54:24   but I realize I'm thinking of the bag mad I'm talking almost entirely about the Maquis [TS]

00:54:28   or because we're talking about you. Samedi and I was ten in the release schedule. [TS]

00:54:31   I.O.'s I will absolutely stipulate that I was seven eight [TS]

00:54:34   or more worse quality wise than the proceeding with absolutely. I think that it. [TS]

00:54:39   I don't think anyone's arguing that as a reason having a debate about the mac yet [TS]

00:54:42   and I mean I can tell you to really working with a lot of these new A.P.I. Is that are added in seven eight. [TS]

00:54:48   There's a lot of bugs that are just A.P.I. [TS]

00:54:50   but It's like they're just bugs in the shipping version that your app has to work around in a lot of the new features [TS]

00:54:56   like ADD and a lot of old features that get rebirth and after they've been fixed and O. S. Bugs like. [TS]

00:55:01   How many times that like. It just takes out the whole S. [TS]

00:55:04   Like that isn't that was not an i OS experience in the past now. [TS]

00:55:08   To give I us some credit like the changes and they are perhaps the most significant changes dial us in a long time. [TS]

00:55:14   But for I was you have a much stronger argument that numerically I can show you that the quality of Iowa seven [TS]

00:55:20   and eight has been a decline. [TS]

00:55:21   And I can show you that and I can strongly argue that the absolutely lockstep hardware [TS]

00:55:28   and software release schedule of i OS is puts the software team in a very difficult position in terms of quality if [TS]

00:55:35   you're going to try to do yearly releases. [TS]

00:55:37   And it has to come out of the ones you know what I think about with the phones. Let me show you a pie chart of. [TS]

00:55:41   I OS device profits in Apple's revenue like it's. That's the entire freaking company now. [TS]

00:55:47   The MAC gets the luxury of not being white is locked into that although I us in the back are sort of moving. [TS]

00:55:52   Had together now. But the not get to be like you go ahead i Phone six. Yeah I'll be I'll be there in a minute. [TS]

00:55:57   Like now we don't have to release its find you will just release the next with the old version of the O.S. [TS]

00:56:01   The boots like are we just hold the next back nobody cares man nobody cares about the IMAX become a when it's ready. [TS]

00:56:07   And so that's why mostly focusing on the mac at IO as I would definitely stipulate I mean. [TS]

00:56:11   Copy and paste all those and worked for me sometimes and I know some of them tell me that doesn't work for them [TS]

00:56:16   and use them as well but like there actually is a longstanding pasteboard bug that I had every cell. [TS]

00:56:21   That's been in America less dense and I started using a. So like and I us though. [TS]

00:56:26   Like we've all used every version of violence like we've all been there from the beginning. [TS]

00:56:30   And we can say you know there there were bumps in the road but seven hundred eight is a definitely downward bump. [TS]

00:56:36   And that's our recent history for the past two years. Yeah. And it again it just it seems like C. [TS]

00:56:41   and This is what I think early. [TS]

00:56:43   Because because everything is so much more complicated now and there's so much more of it. [TS]

00:56:48   Those those little point five percent of things going wrong. [TS]

00:56:52   They don't add they multiply like the chances of you running into something going wrong are wrong any given day. [TS]

00:56:59   Is multiplied by all those factors. And the clouds up at the cloud of the multiplying factor to. Yeah. [TS]

00:57:04   It's behind everything and it's between them [TS]

00:57:06   and like you know getting all the continuity in the air drop stuff to work. Throwing a watch. Yeah. [TS]

00:57:12   And the problem I see like right now today. I get my work done. It's usually not a problem. [TS]

00:57:18   But the rate of failures does seem to be going up and the the biggest problem I see is not you know. [TS]

00:57:24   Everybody has a bad release every so often even big companies like Apple. [TS]

00:57:27   They're not gonna get everything perfect every time that's fine but is there a sign of things getting better [TS]

00:57:33   and that's where I'm really scared is I don't see it. Well it's more than that right it's not only. [TS]

00:57:39   There's no sign of things getting better but the engineering talent is getting spread even more thin. [TS]

00:57:44   In that in that you know now we have a watch coming. [TS]

00:57:47   And that's a whole nother platform with a whole nother series of A.P.I. [TS]

00:57:51   Is that that somebody is going to have to write and. Even if it turns out that. [TS]

00:57:56   They've hired a bunch of engineers well. Are they as good as the engineers that exist are they worse. [TS]

00:58:03   Name may even be better but they certainly won't be as entrenched in the Apple way. So yeah the. [TS]

00:58:10   I think you're right Marco that we haven't seen any indication or get better [TS]

00:58:13   and we have plenty of ways that it could get worse [TS]

00:58:15   and I'd like to hear what you job say about that we should really talk about something cool. Yeah. [TS]

00:58:20   And just to close up. [TS]

00:58:22   My part of this I think you know I posted the follow up post saying how much I regret publishing that post. [TS]

00:58:27   I regret having published the post. Not because it was complaining about Apple. [TS]

00:58:32   But because I just didn't do very good job writing it. I don't regret complaining about Apple. [TS]

00:58:37   I think these complaints were valid or need to be made need to be made [TS]

00:58:40   and one of the reasons why the post spread so incredibly quickly and far and wide. [TS]

00:58:45   Is because there's so much agreement out there. [TS]

00:58:48   And you know once I got to that to the major media that was all sensationalism for the most part but [TS]

00:58:52   when it spread around the community first. Which it did first. [TS]

00:58:56   That was because people feel this that this is this is a thing. [TS]

00:59:00   So I only regret not having done a very good job writing it. And you know some poor word choice. [TS]

00:59:07   Choices here and there. I don't at all regret making the complaint. Anyway. [TS]

00:59:13   Speaking of better things and that our second sponsor this week is hover. Thinking of things I do badly. [TS]

00:59:24   Like a pile on. Hover is the best way to buy and manage domain names. [TS]

00:59:28   For those of you who don't speak English that's age of our dot com. However the domain registrar. That is awesome. [TS]

00:59:36   When you have a good idea for domain just go to hover just buy it there. [TS]

00:59:39   You'll see if you've ever bought a demand where else before you know this is pretty much a terrible business there. [TS]

00:59:46   Almost everyone entered is either. Evil terrible. You know. Clunky or all three. [TS]

00:59:51   Hover is one of those things they have great people working there. And you can tell by go on. [TS]

00:59:56   When you go to the site you do a search you buy demand you manage it. [TS]

00:59:59   You can feel it you can feel it all these different steps. Because everything is respectful of you. [TS]

01:00:05   It has great design. And it's just easy to use. [TS]

01:00:10   You know there's not like a bunch of like crazy up selling going on you don't have to like read all the forms like a [TS]

01:00:16   lawyer I'm like wait I want to uncheck the box that says. [TS]

01:00:19   Don't protect my privacy really like you don't have to like be really careful with like oh wait what am I setting up [TS]

01:00:25   for are they going to spammy are they trying to push like all these different hosting plans on me and add ons. [TS]

01:00:31   No none of that. [TS]

01:00:32   It's simple it's respectful integrate value and their control panel is really nice I use it a lot I have. [TS]

01:00:39   I think I have more than half of my name's there now they're still a couple it already started at that I probably [TS]

01:00:44   should move over and if you do choose to move them over. [TS]

01:00:46   They have a value transfer service where they will at at your discretion if you want them to. [TS]

01:00:52   You can give them your log in to your old registrars and they will log into and do the whole transfers themselves. [TS]

01:00:58   For free. They also have great support now. [TS]

01:01:01   If you can you can look up stuff online obviously don't have like you know a live chat online they have knowledge bases [TS]

01:01:06   and help documents the fight that but they also during business hours. Have phone support. With this crazy. [TS]

01:01:11   No hold no wait no trans. For phone policy so you call the number. [TS]

01:01:15   And some nice people in Canada because that's where they are. Answer the phone. Who can help you. [TS]

01:01:19   You don't have to wait and hold. You want to go if there were men you like literally a person picks up the phone. [TS]

01:01:25   And they can help you. It's amazing. So check out however it's. [TS]

01:01:29   There they are a domain registrar that is good and that. That is so sadly rare. [TS]

01:01:34   But fortunately you can stop looking because here's one I use it. [TS]

01:01:37   Lot of people use it it's great go to hover dot com and use promo code for this week. High ground. [TS]

01:01:46   While use promo code high ground for ten percent off your first purchase. Thank you very much to hover. [TS]

01:01:53   For sponsoring our show once again. I want something better that I wrote would have gotten that popular. [TS]

01:01:59   That's that's the regret is like something Iraq up top of that isn't very good. If you want to go a medal like. [TS]

01:02:04   I wish I could remember this [TS]

01:02:05   but it's the problem with our show IT system is I don't think global docs like keep history forever. [TS]

01:02:10   Like we delete stuff when we're done with it rather than like making a document so mad [TS]

01:02:14   but anyway there was an item in the show notes where you wrote a post. [TS]

01:02:17   Many weeks ago and I put I put it into the show it's because I want to talk about it. [TS]

01:02:21   And you put a no bias that you said I don't think it's interesting I don't want to talk about it I mention you deleted [TS]

01:02:25   from the notes. And don't remember what it was The Remember I'm talking about Margo. [TS]

01:02:31   That describes many things there and I think it was about one of it was about one of your posts on market are [TS]

01:02:36   and the reason I put it in the notes was not to talk about the content of the post. [TS]

01:02:39   But to talk about like this post is why people get angry you Marco. Because there was a great example. [TS]

01:02:45   It was a great example of you posting something that me reading it I knew exactly what you meant [TS]

01:02:49   and it stopped again so that you had said a million times in the pod gas and it's just like. [TS]

01:02:53   This is not shocking your revolutionary day but he listens to the shower knows you are both. And yet. [TS]

01:02:58   If I came to that post. [TS]

01:03:00   Like you know just blank without knowing and it without having any context I would have read it and gotten angry. [TS]

01:03:06   And then it's all about just like word choice in tone and stuff like that [TS]

01:03:10   and you talked about those in your thing it's like you regret using a particular word [TS]

01:03:13   or you can break a phrase you don't feel like you want to write everything. [TS]

01:03:16   Where you're writing your constant thing where people are going to say and they like your writing defensively [TS]

01:03:22   and you're second guessing yourself and all that other stuff and that's what I want to talk about [TS]

01:03:26   when we did that both and maybe if we did that maybe even years ago arbiter in this post anyway [TS]

01:03:29   or maybe you were thought of ahead of me writing this thing and. Because that's. I don't. [TS]

01:03:34   The negative part of the part I think you've articulated well a lot of people talk about it like. [TS]

01:03:38   You don't want that feeling where you. [TS]

01:03:40   You're They're afraid to write something or when you're writing it you're like defending. [TS]

01:03:46   You're defending things like your. You're defending yourself or imagined attackers as you're writing. [TS]

01:03:52   Right because that doesn't feel like good and you should be like Jimmy just say what I'm going to say. But I think the. [TS]

01:03:57   The flipside of that and something that you get if you. [TS]

01:04:00   If you care deeply about these things which you clearly do you know like. If you care at all about what you write and. [TS]

01:04:07   You know better in yourself I'm becoming a better writer and. [TS]

01:04:11   You know this up is that some people don't some people just writes In Session. Sensational B.S. [TS]

01:04:14   You feel like a slave like a baby. And I don't care that they are just like riled the bunch of people. [TS]

01:04:18   I can tell you quite a few of them right now. You are not like that at all right. And you learn MY And so for all like. [TS]

01:04:24   For all the years writing a left hander is everything especially in the beginning when people thought I was a lousy P.C. [TS]

01:04:29   User didn't know anything about Macs and I just try to mak ones I wouldn't hate them so much like. [TS]

01:04:35   It trains you like the. The lesser light side of that defensiveness is. You get very good at reading a sentence. [TS]

01:04:43   As it exists not as you want to be and making sure that your specific word choices. [TS]

01:04:49   Are you can defend them if challenge because you picked exactly the right word for what you meant and. [TS]

01:04:55   The second of all that I can I pick a word that will help me to help me to not be misunderstood sometimes that's harder [TS]

01:05:00   to do and sometimes like you know what I use the correct word if they can't figure it out explain to them after this [TS]

01:05:04   but I always like what I was WANT TO DO WITH MY ALL the last ten reviews. [TS]

01:05:08   And my current ones that matter is if someone hasn't complained about something. [TS]

01:05:12   I want to be able to answer them by merely copying and pasting the sentence from the thing I wrote to say. [TS]

01:05:18   You read the sentence again because it contains the words in the correct order to express the answered your question [TS]

01:05:22   and yet you seem to have glossed over it right. Like where they where they read what they wanted to hear. [TS]

01:05:27   And you get into trouble when you pick a word that expresses your feeling at the time [TS]

01:05:31   but if you were to read the sentence you like you know what I would actually like The knows that I think you would [TS]

01:05:35   choose a different word but when you wrote it. Like oh that's that's the word for how feeling now. But if you. [TS]

01:05:40   If you take. You would never take the that sends back and pasted to somebody say. [TS]

01:05:44   As a defense in fact you would look at and say Oh. [TS]

01:05:46   Actually that's not there it was not precisely what I meant that sort of. [TS]

01:05:50   Some people call like loyally like word choice or whatever like it sounds boring and it sounds crappy [TS]

01:05:55   but it's actually something I kind of savor and writing my things in that. [TS]

01:05:58   I want every sentence I write to be at least defensible to me like I should be able to explain myself it should express [TS]

01:06:03   whatever I think if it doesn't express exactly what I think I should pick a word to get close to expressing what I [TS]

01:06:09   think [TS]

01:06:10   and that practice some people get some you'll find that practice kind of harmonies like you know it's going to be alright [TS]

01:06:14   money on which I think it's perfectly fine but for me. [TS]

01:06:17   I get all paranoid about it why can't one night [TS]

01:06:20   when people can use my own words against me I have chosen the wrong words because they're not really like that's not [TS]

01:06:25   what I meant I never want to say oh no that's not what I meant I want to say no that's exactly what I meant. [TS]

01:06:29   And maybe I can. Diagram the sentence for you to explain how I think what I meant. [TS]

01:06:33   If not what you're saying because there's what you know. [TS]

01:06:35   Everything around that people are always going to read what you actually wrote and say. [TS]

01:06:38   I think what you're saying here is that Apple is doomed like that I write that Apple was doomed. [TS]

01:06:42   No but seems like it seems like really. You know like we can have that debate but I don't want people to put the word. [TS]

01:06:48   You're saying here that Apple's qualities take a nose dive I never said Oh. [TS]

01:06:51   Jim I did say nose dive that's not really what I meant. Right. That's the frustration that's what hurts. [TS]

01:06:56   Is that I feel embarrassed and guilty that I made a bad word choice. [TS]

01:07:01   Not like I can be angry if somebody misquotes me or. [TS]

01:07:04   You know take something out of context or whatever but there's only so much you can do about that [TS]

01:07:09   but you don't want them to be able to actually quote you. [TS]

01:07:11   In context and you feel bad about exactly that's the problem is like when I know I was wrong and I did something bad [TS]

01:07:18   or stupid. [TS]

01:07:19   And then you're think it's magnified [TS]

01:07:21   when you write a million things like everybody does especially if you're a frequent blog you read a million things we [TS]

01:07:25   don't pick the person I had the luxury of picking the precise word every like one thing a year [TS]

01:07:28   and it just poured over it like an insane person right but if you're blogging every day like you. [TS]

01:07:32   You know but and then you get caught by surprise is like most of my stuff gets read by X. [TS]

01:07:36   Number of people that got read by X. Times a hundred thousand. [TS]

01:07:39   And that's kind of like an unfair lens to focus on again what you probably thought was like. [TS]

01:07:42   There's another one of those posts or summarize what I've been saying A.T.P. The best in months. [TS]

01:07:46   You bang it out you're done you go to sleep like no big deal right now he wake up and it's like go. [TS]

01:07:51   Why why this one and not when I talk about like closed headphones [TS]

01:07:57   and I think I think the answer to why this one the like people picked up on this is like. [TS]

01:08:01   If it wasn't you it would have been someone else because that has been the air like this is this is an actual thing. [TS]

01:08:06   You know your guard you about justification [TS]

01:08:08   or whatever I'm saying like the current crop of Apple customers are in a cycle now. [TS]

01:08:12   Where we are not satisfied with the quality of the products we're getting. [TS]

01:08:17   And you know we expect more than we're getting our expectations. [TS]

01:08:21   Maybe up our usage maybe up the quality maybe down some combination but we're not happy [TS]

01:08:25   and so it's been bouncing around but apropos you with software colleagues and bouncing around circles for just. [TS]

01:08:30   I think of this point for you know. Over a year. And this just happened to catch. [TS]

01:08:34   Because it was the right person at the right time expressing the things that you know. [TS]

01:08:38   He's saying what we're all thinking right and or. You know their misquote of him is what I'm thinking. Well. [TS]

01:08:46   Well the funny thing is I was digging through the showdown so you guys were talking trying to find that link [TS]

01:08:49   and I'm not sure that this is the one you're looking for. [TS]

01:08:52   John but I did stumble upon the products Apple doesn't have time to improve dated December twenty ninth two thousand [TS]

01:08:58   and thirteen. Very last paragraph is on. Marco's website. [TS]

01:09:01   While most of the press demands new hardware categories I'd be perfectly happy if Apple never made a T.V. [TS]

01:09:06   or A watch or a unicorn and instead devoted the next five years to polishing the software [TS]

01:09:10   and services for their existing product lines. December twenty ninth twenty thirteen. [TS]

01:09:14   Now that wasn't what I was thinking of in terms of the one I was going to complain about how Marco wrote it [TS]

01:09:19   and not what he wrote it was like it was it was like not a. I don't know his tech related it was just something random. [TS]

01:09:26   Right. My point is just that over a year ago. We were all complaining about software quality. [TS]

01:09:32   I always give I mean ultimately do all the archives but I saw four guys [TS]

01:09:37   and I not unlike what we all complain it's just like. [TS]

01:09:39   When does it reach a critical mass when does a gain traction in the larger thing when does it become [TS]

01:09:44   and it's almost kind of sad that it becomes a story because then. Then it itself. Begins the cycle. [TS]

01:09:49   All that we know will eventually end where this becomes a thing and then we talk about it and abounds around [TS]

01:09:53   and we forget and it's kind of a shame that that is a cycle to write that the media cycle about this thing. [TS]

01:09:59   And the media cycle terminate long before it does any satisfaction. SAS satisfactory resolution to the actual problem. [TS]

01:10:05   Because the media cycle has a life of its own. [TS]

01:10:07   That is not concerned with the substance of the things it's reporting on like. Once the story goes away it's like oh. [TS]

01:10:13   I remember that story a couple years ago that was him suffer [TS]

01:10:15   but I guess the stick now is that I hear of it anymore no probably not like you know the the. [TS]

01:10:20   The reality continues to lurch along right and so you know. [TS]

01:10:23   Just like Apple of you like Africa comes and goes in cycles in between then is it solved Nope. No not at all like. [TS]

01:10:31   And I think that's that's the problem like it [TS]

01:10:33   when that's all we talk about in the show is like systemic problems with Apple's products [TS]

01:10:37   and how they might solve them. [TS]

01:10:39   And you're the option Marco put out there like the fans who have like I'll just keep polishing your products are [TS]

01:10:43   furious. That is more viable on the Mac. Because like I said. Who are they chasing at this point like. [TS]

01:10:49   It's not a an active battleground it's more of you know. [TS]

01:10:52   Borders and draw numbers and I was ten it's kind of gently encroaching on Windows [TS]

01:10:56   but it's not like a burgeoning market but on the phone. They really do have to be racing forward. [TS]

01:11:02   They also need to get their quality under control [TS]

01:11:04   and need to balance those two things I think the good thing going for them is that as a lot of people started like. [TS]

01:11:10   I think I saw someone say I was hit with I think I was basically feature complete now right you know that you know the [TS]

01:11:15   end of history illusion right yeah OK that's all there. But. [TS]

01:11:18   But in some respects it's like I was a brought a lot of longstanding things that we wanted for a long time. [TS]

01:11:23   And you do have now a window of time where you can polish those because it's not like there's some major feature there [TS]

01:11:30   are like all I got I was totally needs like background processing or multitasking or. [TS]

01:11:34   You know better interop communication [TS]

01:11:36   or better way to share files like at this point it's basically an app store problem with the like loud thing like the [TS]

01:11:41   basics are there if only they worked. Now. [TS]

01:11:43   I mean that was kind of like so many features in Leopard were like all the things you add in Leopard sound great I'll [TS]

01:11:48   be really excited when they work. You know and they were like two years. [TS]

01:11:52   Don't know whether it came out and it's like oh now. [TS]

01:11:54   All that stuff kind of works and that's kind of good but nothing that are featured plate but they do go in cycles [TS]

01:11:59   and I'm hoping that I was nine. [TS]

01:12:02   And the authentic comes out after it will be a cycle where they don't feel the need that. [TS]

01:12:07   You know that neither of us is desperately missing some Peacher and they can do a polishing release. [TS]

01:12:13   I don't necessarily agree with the assumption. They need to be racing ahead with software and I alas. [TS]

01:12:19   Because I mean look. They just took a big chunk out of Android sales. Not because I was eight support extensions. [TS]

01:12:26   But because they made bigger screen phones. [TS]

01:12:28   Well the heart of the hardware aside they need to be written for their job it wouldn't you agree the features they had [TS]

01:12:32   and I was a had many of them are sort of long overdue. [TS]

01:12:35   I would agree that they were do but I don't think that is going to give the massive market share for Android. [TS]

01:12:41   Or I or rather I don't think that's going to cause a lot of injured people to switch. Like it'll cost some. [TS]

01:12:48   That's where the bar is now though. Like they were they were behind. And they needed to catch up. [TS]

01:12:52   Right and so it's not like you suddenly get more users this is just the. The Anti to to get in the game. [TS]

01:12:59   And you know they had to keep being raised as a terrible I don't know anything about gambling sorry. Anyway. [TS]

01:13:03   That analogy. But I like the barber so far as to borrow something I can. [TS]

01:13:08   The bar is being raised I have to keep an android had had. [TS]

01:13:12   You know raise the bar in so many areas that I was was unwilling or unable to to chase [TS]

01:13:17   and there were several releases where it was essentially. [TS]

01:13:19   Let's keep the catch up to or Android already is simply because that is like. [TS]

01:13:25   That is the standard these days [TS]

01:13:26   and if you don't have these features people are going to ding you for it having them doesn't mean people switch just [TS]

01:13:30   means you get to be in the conversation and nobody get to throw in your face no third party keyboards right. [TS]

01:13:34   Yeah [TS]

01:13:35   but in the grand scheme of things I really don't think a lot of those things were mattering in the marketplace as much [TS]

01:13:41   as geeks like to think they were. I don't I mean it's difficult to say but like. [TS]

01:13:46   When I was saying before it's like because the because I left the base with because the i Phone is such a huge part of [TS]

01:13:50   Apple's business. And you know this the majority of their business I think at this point. [TS]

01:13:54   And it's super important as the market that's growing the most. That's the one that has the most kind of. [TS]

01:13:59   And it has an active competitor like not a sleeping one and not like a fossilised one bit about several active. [TS]

01:14:04   Competitors that are weird because one guy's got you know Google's got the O. S. [TS]

01:14:07   No platform but Samsung's making the money and. [TS]

01:14:10   You don't even know who is going to come out of China with some crazy phones that are based on their own Android very [TS]

01:14:14   unlike. [TS]

01:14:16   It's kind of a malevolent twisting enemy that you that you're not quite sure how to defeating you just try to do like [TS]

01:14:22   we just need to do our best in a race [TS]

01:14:24   or a disaster because like I understand the sentiment they could have may have gone too fast in some respects they may [TS]

01:14:28   have gone too slow holding back on all the features that I was eight [TS]

01:14:31   and then putting them all out in one big bang release right [TS]

01:14:33   but I understand that they felt like you know that the wolf was chasing them both is like an analogy show. [TS]

01:14:40   A metaphor show is the wolf was chasing them. [TS]

01:14:42   And it felt like they had to race where the no less tense like who's where you go on the stop Linux is not coming join [TS]

01:14:47   your pain like Windows is kind of. You know it's resting at the very least and. [TS]

01:14:53   They already won that market and it's not growing and just like slow and steady wins the race. [TS]

01:14:59   Our final sponsor this week is automatic. Your smart driving assistant. On your smartphone.. [TS]

01:15:04   That automatic dot com slash A.T.P. Automatic monitors how you drive so you can monitor your fuel economy. [TS]

01:15:11   Read check engine error codes automatically signal for help in a crash. [TS]

01:15:15   And more the best part of the automatic intelligently monitors how you drive to tell you how to optimize your fuel [TS]

01:15:21   economy. It gives you all the data you need to track your cost and efficiency every week. [TS]

01:15:26   As you can give you tips on small changes you can make to save a lot of money in the long run it can even make subtle [TS]

01:15:31   audio cues when you drive and efficiently. [TS]

01:15:33   To help guide you towards better habits you can reach your fuel economy goals. [TS]

01:15:38   Automatic it plugs into the man every time I think about this. Oh. The O.B.D. Two port it plugs into that on your car. [TS]

01:15:46   It's compatible with almost every car out there. Made in the maids and I start using pewters. Go check out.. [TS]

01:15:51   Automatic dot com slash A.T.P. You can save hundreds of dollars on gas. You can divert your check engine light codes. [TS]

01:15:58   Interface with your phone. So the and it has also pretty apt. [TS]

01:16:02   Like all these trendy things do these days it's also been trendy and. You can see all the. [TS]

01:16:06   You know graphs of you fuel economy you can see if you've been driving inefficiently how you driving [TS]

01:16:11   and efficiency if you know if you're telling too hard or breaking to feel too hard. [TS]

01:16:15   It will tell you all that it can track all that data for you and also does a couple cool things a parking locator. [TS]

01:16:21   Because it knows where you park because your phone was in your car when you parked. [TS]

01:16:24   Automatic now also works with the nest. Learning thermostat if you have enough thermostat. [TS]

01:16:29   Automatic can signal to your thermostat when you leave work. [TS]

01:16:32   To automatically warm your house up or cool your house down so that when you get home it is the right temperature. [TS]

01:16:37   That's a pretty cool feature. And this there's often thing that could really help you out in a serious situation. [TS]

01:16:44   It can automatically signal for help in a crash because the car can sense when it's been an accident. [TS]

01:16:50   And the automatic peripheral has a Bluetooth connection to your phone. [TS]

01:16:55   And so it can dial your phone through the app and simple issue of the app. [TS]

01:16:58   We should signal to emergency services that you've crashed in an emergency and. So if your or if you're. [TS]

01:17:04   You know too slow or unable to call for help. [TS]

01:17:07   It will do it for you and that's really serious that could really be helpful so. This is good stuff. [TS]

01:17:13   I Phone and Android are both supported. Now. Automatic. [TS]

01:17:17   There's no subscription fees as no monthly fee there's no service fee. [TS]

01:17:20   You get by the by automatic device up front if plugs in your car and that's it. Normally the hundred bucks.. [TS]

01:17:27   Which is already a fantastic deal. But using our coupon code or by just by going to automatic dot com flash A.T.P. [TS]

01:17:34   You get twenty percent off bring it down just a bucks. Again. No monthly fees. You pay the eighty bucks upfront. [TS]

01:17:41   And it'll just work. There's no monthly fees. Forty five day return policy free shipping both ways. [TS]

01:17:47   Ships into business days all this is great stuff. So trite out. Eighty bucks. Forty five day return policy. [TS]

01:17:53   Free Shipping. You can't go wrong. So good automatic dot com slash A.T.P. Thanks a lot. All right. [TS]

01:18:01   Do you want to talk about family sharing or is that going to take another two hours now [TS]

01:18:04   and if we don't want to talk about family sharing If I are choices [TS]

01:18:07   and think now our talk about the MacBook Air rumors [TS]

01:18:10   or to listen me drone on more about markets think of the thing going on much longer about. [TS]

01:18:17   Let's talk about the macro care rumors [TS]

01:18:19   but I'm not saying that I don't want to hear your other thoughts on on Marco's post at some point maybe the after show. [TS]

01:18:24   Yeah that's fine. All right so what were the start from ninety five Mack is that right. [TS]

01:18:30   Yeah Markram got if it's true a pretty good scoop. About this the the alleged twelve inks Retina MacBook Air. [TS]

01:18:39   And there's been rumors about. Well then i Pad Pro and a twelve in fretting a math book air. [TS]

01:18:45   So far there when people seem to think those are two separate devices. [TS]

01:18:48   These are not two separate divided right yeah exactly. So you know. I guess I'll believe them for now. [TS]

01:18:57   I tweeted earlier on Twitter that I suspect that there's a good chance this is actually just one device that [TS]

01:19:04   and immediately people are saying will the new built the service will suck. [TS]

01:19:09   That's not going to choose my words carefully. Speaking of the service. My sons I guessed. [TS]

01:19:17   School think he did something in school where they went to a Microsoft store. [TS]

01:19:21   And I know this because he came home to me and said. [TS]

01:19:23   Why do we have separate i Pad and a laptop service and I'll call you and I listen to his argument for the service. [TS]

01:19:33   He's lost a starter. He doesn't know anything about. So. Anyway. So yeah I mean. [TS]

01:19:42   My theory was that there were rumors about one device that was either a MacBook or. And i Pad. [TS]

01:19:49   But anyway regardless it sounds all the room people are insisting it's actually shooter from devices [TS]

01:19:52   and they know more than I do obviously I don't I haven't heard anything subform them. So. So anyway. [TS]

01:19:58   Supposedly is two devices fine. And this. This one in particular was the twelve inch. Retina MacBook Air. [TS]

01:20:04   And it makes a number of pretty substantial. If again. If this is correct. Which That's a big if I don't think we need. [TS]

01:20:11   The reason I put the nose I don't think we need to care whether it's true [TS]

01:20:14   and I think we can just discuss the rumor as in like. Is this something that Apple would make. [TS]

01:20:20   And if they did make it would you like it why not fair enough. I might like it so. My. My portable needs. [TS]

01:20:28   Have always been best served by a fifteen inch. However in recent times. I have. I have come to realize that. [TS]

01:20:37   I always think I will get a lot more work done when I'm traveling with my laptop. That I actually do. [TS]

01:20:43   I always think oh my laptop and I can maybe i can finally at this feature of the app. Even all be you know. [TS]

01:20:49   Offline most of the time or have limited connectivity or I'll be up state with D.S.L. [TS]

01:20:55   Connection that's like fermenting to seventy five. You know so I always think I'll get a lot of work done in practice. [TS]

01:21:01   I usually just do basic web and email stuff because I am waiting to get back to my. [TS]

01:21:06   My big fast computer with my big fat internet connection at home. [TS]

01:21:09   So I might try it simply because I am due for a new laptop this year. And actually and the one. [TS]

01:21:19   So I currently have a first gen retina fifteen. So it is almost three years like two and a half years old now. [TS]

01:21:25   So this coming summer only three years old that. It's like I have no reason really to replace it. [TS]

01:21:30   Except that it does have a screen image or tension issues pretty badly now. And and. [TS]

01:21:37   My father in law needed a computer and so and I because it has pretty bad. [TS]

01:21:40   I mean contention I don't really feel comfortable selling it to somebody so I figure I'll just give it to him he really [TS]

01:21:45   needs a computer basically now. [TS]

01:21:46   So I figure as soon as something new with Broadwell comes out that I want I will buy it and do the swap. [TS]

01:21:51   I there have been many occasions. Or I have been in some kind of travel. Situation usually flying. [TS]

01:21:58   Where a fifteen inch is way too big to take out and use. [TS]

01:22:01   And so I think I would use something the small the people who fly a lot always talk about the eleven in chair [TS]

01:22:07   and I've never liked the eleven inch because the screen is just so damn small on it like isn't it. It's isn't it. [TS]

01:22:15   Thirteen sixty six across that might not only the lower as. But it's also physically small like there's wasted. [TS]

01:22:21   The borders on it seems way too while you're the thing is already small [TS]

01:22:25   and you couldn't you couldn't stretch though the screen to the edges Apparently not. Yeah exactly. [TS]

01:22:29   So anyway so this rumor thing looks really nice in that. It appears to have a dramatically reduced. [TS]

01:22:36   Screen bezel with which is nice. Or as you would say Brazil. [TS]

01:22:39   I'll never forget that distinctive looks I have you know plastic but thousand the front of them and. [TS]

01:22:46   And the keyboard goes edge to edge. [TS]

01:22:49   One thing in the report said that the keyboard keys are actually narrower [TS]

01:22:54   and I'm a little worried about that because they haven't changed the size of the keyboard keys in a very long time. [TS]

01:22:59   Well hold on. Was that the keys were narrower or the borders between the keys were narrower. Well it doesn't matter. [TS]

01:23:05   Does the because in in the picture in the diagram again this is all could just be fancy stuff in a diagram. [TS]

01:23:10   The plasticky capture the same size they're merely place closer together [TS]

01:23:13   and that is different from making the keys bigger so the gaps to be. [TS]

01:23:17   And small [TS]

01:23:17   but having a senator points in the same place the seem to be implying that the center points were in different places. [TS]

01:23:22   So the keys are actually closer together I am magine. If the spacing is as shown. If you are a crappy typist like me. [TS]

01:23:29   You'd probably be OK. [TS]

01:23:31   But it is it is a compromise that it's like if you made the thing an actress animator water would that have been a deal [TS]

01:23:38   breaker to have a standard keyboard like it's an interesting design tradeoff if true with. [TS]

01:23:42   If the product was as conceptualized already had to more of the. [TS]

01:23:44   Supposedly you know if this product was real what about this is Andrea. [TS]

01:23:48   But the keyboard one is one of the minor ones but it's like. [TS]

01:23:52   It's a line in the sand where it's like previously was like nope full size keys everywhere. Spacing it for all we know. [TS]

01:23:57   Like I haven't actually measured center to center [TS]

01:23:58   but I'm assuming that the keyboard spacing has not changed in the modern era of Apple hardware and. [TS]

01:24:03   This would be a change. I don't I don't think I would notice it and I don't know you guys both touch typists. [TS]

01:24:09   Yep mixed. Like I'm like you know a little bit sloppy but that God on title that. [TS]

01:24:16   If you would use his keyboard Casey would you feel. [TS]

01:24:19   Would you say oh I get it was obviously views on a lot of techie board cover her [TS]

01:24:22   and i Pad you like I was like official price keyboard it's crazy I can type on it right. [TS]

01:24:26   And that's an extreme with this spacing difference do you do you think you would feel it. [TS]

01:24:31   I don't think so I will say that the rare occasions that I used to Max many many years ago. [TS]

01:24:37   And the little nubbins were on the D. and. What which was the other T D N K. [TS]

01:24:43   Keys back before they moved them to the P.C. Position of F. and J. [TS]

01:24:49   That threw me off on student Lee and I could barely type on a mac back then but that was a. [TS]

01:24:55   I would argue a much bigger difference I think if I just have to if I just have to get used to the keys being slightly [TS]

01:25:00   together. [TS]

01:25:01   Or slightly close together I don't think that would make a very big difference at all now [TS]

01:25:05   and less a really big sausage fingers I think I find with laptops that. [TS]

01:25:08   It's more of a thing getting used to the Keys that they move like the fact the controls not in the corner this [TS]

01:25:13   when they move a skate better the corner and that would probably screw screw me up [TS]

01:25:17   or maybe script people who are like Emacs users or other people might have the escapee more than you might expect. [TS]

01:25:22   One exciting thing about this. This mock up of a keyboard here is that the left or right arrow keys are full size. [TS]

01:25:29   Which is like one baby steps towards the sanity of full size arrow keys. [TS]

01:25:33   But now but I haven't break the won't break the border of the keyboard yet but this is a baby step isn't in fact. [TS]

01:25:38   Actually this maybe not be babies that this may be regression because it might have been driving him crazy to have half [TS]

01:25:42   light left [TS]

01:25:43   and right keys because they broke the symmetry of every key kept being the same size except for the you know modifier [TS]

01:25:47   keys and stuff. So I don't know of any why I endorse that rumored change as well. So the big rumored change. [TS]

01:25:56   Which has all of us talking about this in particular is allegedly. All of the ports are gone. Except a headphone jack.. [TS]

01:26:05   And a U.S.B. Three type see the new reversible U.S.B. Connector including the power counter like so the the. [TS]

01:26:12   So if this is true. The power and all device connections except headphones. Will have to run through a single US be. [TS]

01:26:20   Type C. Connector. Right so I think the first I mean say about this is. [TS]

01:26:24   Is this technically possible to do right and from people who are been following the spec more closely than us. [TS]

01:26:31   Apparently the answer is yes the U.S.B. Types you connector. Has a lot of capability. [TS]

01:26:38   And I don't know the fine details of it [TS]

01:26:40   but the people are saying that it was designed to carry up to one hundred watts of power into the computer. [TS]

01:26:47   If necessary as well as be able to stream to kind of multiplex other device other port types. Over that physical plug. [TS]

01:26:56   And I can do displays as well. Yes exactly. So it does seem like it is possible. So the answer. [TS]

01:27:02   That's that I think I don't know if was emphasizing other darkly I mean they mention it here but like. [TS]

01:27:07   The reason we can have this discussion is because plus [TS]

01:27:11   or minus maybe minor things about like well won't charges faster or you be limited in monitors [TS]

01:27:16   or will it compromise the speed of the boss. Technically from the specs it seems like yes this is a thing you could do. [TS]

01:27:22   You can take a hot top with a headphone port. And a single U.S.B. Type seaport. [TS]

01:27:27   It still might be a bad idea but it does seem like it's possible technically. [TS]

01:27:31   Now if Apple did this and made this device regardless of whether we think they're going to or not. [TS]

01:27:35   Would you want to buy one would it change your opinion of like of your saying you might want to get this is nice it's [TS]

01:27:42   nice to get a laptop or vice me like having a laptop would be cool to be small [TS]

01:27:44   and would this change your your decision about getting one. Probably not simply because it wouldn't affect the way. [TS]

01:27:52   I use it but I also recognize. [TS]

01:27:54   Like the with the way I use my laptop as a secondary and pretty occasional computer really. [TS]

01:28:01   That's not how most people use a laptop most people use a laptop as their only computer and are using it frequently [TS]

01:28:06   and. Most of the time it's on a desk plugged in to other stuff. [TS]

01:28:11   So for that kind of use again we will have to see this is all we could be totally wrong this port could be totally [TS]

01:28:17   awesome. [TS]

01:28:17   And we might my peach be able to shut everything through it and have a little base station or adapter whatever. [TS]

01:28:23   I'm not willing to say that it would be totally awesome because like the The Big One is that they're saying mag safe is [TS]

01:28:28   gone to add a mag safe isn't just like go is just coming up with another port U.S.B. Connector to carry the power. [TS]

01:28:33   Why would you do it well the same reason magnet exists in the first place because you don't want to plug the goes [TS]

01:28:37   inside your computer to be the power cord to be able to power like. That's why magnet was invented we did that before. [TS]

01:28:43   Like we had laptops where there was a connector that went into there and we hope broke them off [TS]

01:28:47   and certain point you know not to say mag they've just perfect and mag safe too has been arguably regression. [TS]

01:28:53   And maybe this thing is so thin that they can't figure out how to get a mag say. [TS]

01:28:56   Maybe they should switch like the i Watch type little you know. [TS]

01:28:59   Magnetic induction suction cup you look and thing over I don't know what they have to do. [TS]

01:29:03   But I don't want to go back to a world where people can trip over the power cord or a laptop [TS]

01:29:07   and so if this thing came out. It's not just that it has one port but if it didn't even have a power port. [TS]

01:29:12   This would make me strongly consider. Not only not buying it for myself with on real life. [TS]

01:29:18   I think magnate is one of the best teachers they've ever had to laptop line [TS]

01:29:21   and if they take it away in favor of this little U.S.B. Type C. Connector. I would have. [TS]

01:29:25   I would take a wait and see approach and I would say. [TS]

01:29:27   Basically have to see is the connector so tiny that it's practically a thousand lightning connector you know. [TS]

01:29:32   Is so tiny that it basically acts like Max that even that you can trip over a million times and it won't break off [TS]

01:29:37   and it won't yank your computer down just because it's so small like it's not like a big full size U.S.B. [TS]

01:29:41   Connector or is that really the issue that I think it's going to be and that. You know it's not as good as an X. [TS]

01:29:48   A And we're back to the old days. But what about the X. Box style. Midway through the cable break away from doing the X. [TS]

01:29:56   Box style. Statistics. [TS]

01:30:00   I mean that's like you know any big giant thing in the middle of your cable know what if it wasn't so big and giant [TS]

01:30:07   but it still serve the same purpose [TS]

01:30:08   and you got to use the special cable the time in so let's get to the other compromises of having a single part of your [TS]

01:30:14   the max a thing entirely pretend the power thing is not an issue. [TS]

01:30:17   Why would you have just one of them less you're making some sort of philosophical statement like of their technical [TS]

01:30:21   reason why we think we'd have just one some people have argued power because the second part require power [TS]

01:30:25   and I could maybe kind of buy that [TS]

01:30:27   but I don't know enough about the specs of the bars of the Coram line of processors might write. [TS]

01:30:32   I don't know if there is something about adding another port that a. [TS]

01:30:36   That is a significant power drain it seems like in this mock up there's space on the side of it where you could put [TS]

01:30:41   another port. Well. It is teardrop shape still though. So it does paper into a into a narrow. [TS]

01:30:48   Or shape as you go down closer to the person sitting so there might not be as much room for more of them as you think I [TS]

01:30:56   would get if this is. [TS]

01:30:57   I think this is all the stuff for shop job a bit surrender based on based on rumored information [TS]

01:31:02   and things that were told by sources. [TS]

01:31:03   I think there is technically a room [TS]

01:31:06   but like in the aesthetic design if you don't want to sort of compromise that is there's the region that is [TS]

01:31:11   perpendicular to the surface of the table [TS]

01:31:13   and that region is smaller than the with of the things so with wise is plenty of room [TS]

01:31:17   but is there room in the perpendicular area. I feel like there's nothing room. [TS]

01:31:20   The very least you could do is you know one on one side and on the other or something like that [TS]

01:31:25   but two ports is so much better than one because two ports get is the average person the ability to do something [TS]

01:31:32   reasonable. [TS]

01:31:33   Without engaging the sort of squid [TS]

01:31:36   or octopus of cables that the snake out of the because it's like oh I have one thing plugged in [TS]

01:31:41   and I had to do some other things like I just had to put in the little thumb drive help them drive there have U.S.B. [TS]

01:31:45   Type C. Connectors but right. Well something. Some really common. Power. [TS]

01:31:48   And an i Phone or like a mouse about a mouse and something else. [TS]

01:31:52   I mean and you know and a lot of people of argued Yeah there's a lot of wireless mouse might have there [TS]

01:31:55   and yes that's true as Bluetooth liason the but somehow the R.F. [TS]

01:31:58   Donal's Yeah yeah exactly and but I mean just sit the simplest thing when like when I'm when I'm traveling somewhere. [TS]

01:32:04   I always have devices pulled into the U.S.B. Port on my laptop and usually it's charging eyeless devices. [TS]

01:32:13   So I mean if I just I just don't understand. I don't quite understand the thoughts offical statement that will be made. [TS]

01:32:20   I understand a false offical statement was made by only having U.S.P. Type seaports. And by having it be fanless. [TS]

01:32:26   Having used the Coram and like. I understand the statement of this machine. Right. But only having one of them. [TS]

01:32:33   I don't understand the extra thing you would be getting from. You know the. [TS]

01:32:37   This is a a a thin super lightweight machine it's almost been is an i Pad. [TS]

01:32:41   It's very simple there's no fans and is not amazing like. [TS]

01:32:45   Even if they went with like we're not going to run a screen because we can't because because we wanted to go with this [TS]

01:32:49   low power family his line I would even be OK with that just like that is wholly what this machine is about. [TS]

01:32:54   But nothing about having only one U.S.B. Cord again putting aside mag say nothing about only have one U.S.B. [TS]

01:32:59   Port makes a statement to me that I find that has any value. [TS]

01:33:02   Aesthetically practically speaking [TS]

01:33:04   or in any other way unless it was like we couldn't do two because of power constraints [TS]

01:33:08   but I don't think of the cases I've seen other laptops of the. You know the same. [TS]

01:33:12   What we think of the same chips at the might be in something like this and they aren't as a compromise. [TS]

01:33:17   So I am baffled by the single part rumor [TS]

01:33:20   and I hope it is a just a misunderstanding of the Hope it's all a big misunderstanding. [TS]

01:33:24   So I agree with you that I think throwing away mag safe. Is a very dubious choice. [TS]

01:33:31   But let's let's just assume that they make that choice and it really is what this render shows which is just one. [TS]

01:33:39   Lightning ask. Connector. [TS]

01:33:40   Which by the way I'm not entirely sure why they wouldn't use Lightning I guess because of all the power [TS]

01:33:44   and all the other things that this US P.C. Can do they need they need to carry a display over it right all that stuff. [TS]

01:33:52   So. But regardless so we only have this one U.S.B. Type C. and Headphone. [TS]

01:33:57   I keep trying to think about and I haven't had the time to come up with a good answer. [TS]

01:34:01   But I keep trying to think about what. What has Apple done lately. That would enable this computer to exist. [TS]

01:34:10   So for example. Air drop between computers that. Hypothetically if it ever freaking works. [TS]

01:34:18   Hey Marco Have you ever talked about things not working anyway. You know if it ever works. [TS]

01:34:22   Airdrop could be the solution that that makes U.S.B. Keys. Obsolete. [TS]

01:34:29   And that's just one very silly example let's take another you you guys mentioned Bluetooth. Specifically for mice. [TS]

01:34:35   You know I use a Bluetooth mouse. And so I don't need to plug in one of those little R.F. [TS]

01:34:41   Dongles although pretty much everyone at work. Does exactly that plug in and are often go. [TS]

01:34:46   So if you leave aside a secondary display which admittedly in a lot of context is very important. And if. [TS]

01:34:56   If you assume that we can do basic U.S.B. Key style things with air drop or equivalent. [TS]

01:35:03   What do you really need a bunch U.S.B. Ports for. [TS]

01:35:05   I mean charging is a great example to Marcos point [TS]

01:35:08   but that's kind of hurt so it's really a rhetorical question what I'm driving at is if you think of this. [TS]

01:35:13   More like an i Pad that happens to have a keyboard and maybe even runs O.-S. Ten. [TS]

01:35:18   Then you do a complete traditional computer. What do you really need those ports for. I think it's more. [TS]

01:35:27   It's not so much like. What do you need them for like that you desperately want them it's that. Taking it away. [TS]

01:35:32   It shouldn't be taken away unless there's a reason. [TS]

01:35:34   And there's lots of reasons we were gone through which may be true like you know it could be a power issue [TS]

01:35:40   and it's like well you know it is that that the smallness the fan lessness you know that the light is this machine is [TS]

01:35:47   the reasons why we couldn't make this machine the way it is that the point that would be a reason I don't think it's a [TS]

01:35:50   it's actually true in this case but that would be one reason. [TS]

01:35:53   And the other could be some aesthetic or philosophical statement that you're making which I don't understand. [TS]

01:35:59   But it in the absence of any good reason to not have it. Like just put it on that because it's so can you know. [TS]

01:36:05   One is just it's just too few. Like why why just. Why not just have none at that point. [TS]

01:36:09   Right because not that you need to all the time of a lot of people do need to all the time. [TS]

01:36:14   But you want to have the one that you're using and the X. Your one for the for the other thing that you want to do you. [TS]

01:36:19   Because the statement is a machine ultra portability convenience [TS]

01:36:23   and everything is massively compromised by having to carry a satchel with you know a rat's nest of cables [TS]

01:36:29   and like that. That hurts the message or the machine doesn't help. [TS]

01:36:32   But what do you plugging in that's what I don't understand but I rarely mention like U.S.B. [TS]

01:36:36   Key type things are Afghan girls. Already those. [TS]

01:36:38   You know if you have an art Don Gonyea speaking you've got two ports felt. Just to do your work but but you've already. [TS]

01:36:43   You've already failed. By my point is if you're using an R.F. Dongle or if you're using a U.S.B. Key. [TS]

01:36:49   This is already not the computer for you but I mean I think those things are people be doing I have a portable mouse. [TS]

01:36:55   You know. And it has just about R.F. Down on it's not Bluetooth. Right. And I have a U.S.B. [TS]

01:37:00   Key and I want to use I'm outside of my work and part of my work involves taking as he was speaking from work [TS]

01:37:05   and shoving endpoint files on it. [TS]

01:37:06   And I can't do that without plugging my mouse it's like well why am I even bothering to use a mouse [TS]

01:37:10   and never shall get a weird dongle adapter tighten like that is not a crazy scenario people who use use the laptop. [TS]

01:37:15   Use mice with their laptops [TS]

01:37:17   and to you know be the mouse is basically like that becomes like that port is taken all the time because I always use [TS]

01:37:22   the mouse event on my little tray table is not because I hate trackpad or something. And by. The way I have a U.S.B. [TS]

01:37:27   Key sometimes. It's already to port them you haven't done anything exotic like plugged in a portable hard drive or. [TS]

01:37:33   You know plugged in an optical thing or something like like. [TS]

01:37:37   Unless you're saying is this can't be a person's primary mac which would definitely be a first for any laptop that [TS]

01:37:42   Apple has ever made they've always said you know there may be compromise for this but this can be your only mac. [TS]

01:37:47   Because you can get everything done that you want to get done and it without. It's beget he's nest in a hub. [TS]

01:37:52   Coming off of the thing with one port. I think that. [TS]

01:37:56   That hurts the intended message of the machine as a tiny can be a little thing with not communion anymore [TS]

01:38:01   when you have to come along with a bunch of accessories. [TS]

01:38:03   We se but I disagree I think what it is is that your to your viewing this against a traditional computer. [TS]

01:38:08   Which is the same problem I had when I first saw it. But the more I think about it the more I think this is really a. [TS]

01:38:14   If you want the best of the best mobile computing experience [TS]

01:38:17   when you define best as thinnest lightest etc Maybe this is even arm for all we know who knows. But one way or another. [TS]

01:38:24   You have to buy. [TS]

01:38:25   All in on the fact that these are the compromises that you're going to have to deal with you're going to have to trade [TS]

01:38:31   in that R.F. Mouse for U.S.B. Mouse. I mean for a bluetooth mouse. But why did you why do you have to deal with that. [TS]

01:38:37   Why do you have to say you're going to have to I will accept it if I have to. [TS]

01:38:41   But why do I have to there needs to be a reason. Would it not. Could it not have been this then if it had two ports. [TS]

01:38:47   Like that's the question I want answered seems to me based on the smoke of the same product I mean that in the real [TS]

01:38:52   that it could be that thing with two ports. And I don't think it's a power issue. [TS]

01:38:57   I think you're right [TS]

01:38:58   but it's the only analogy I can come back to is around the time that MAC started dropping optical drives. [TS]

01:39:06   I was not a mac user when. [TS]

01:39:08   When they dropped floppy drives but around the time they dropped optical drives [TS]

01:39:11   and let me be clear the two max that I that I own both have optical drives when that happened [TS]

01:39:17   when they started dropping them. [TS]

01:39:18   I thought they were out of their damn minds in the same way that I think a lot of people said that about floppy drives. [TS]

01:39:24   But as it turns out. [TS]

01:39:27   I don't side of getting the crappy quality pictures of Declan when he came [TS]

01:39:30   when he was born from the hospital photographer. [TS]

01:39:33   I haven't really used an optical drive in ages I can't even remember the last time of used it with that one exception. [TS]

01:39:39   So it really turns out that we don't really need. Optical drives anymore and I'm wondering that. [TS]

01:39:46   Maybe we don't really need U.S.B. Drive. Ports on a regular basis anymore. [TS]

01:39:52   And you know what if you really want to stick with that or if mouse in your work and. If you really want to throw U.S.B. [TS]

01:39:58   Keys into your computer at work. Then you know what John you're right you're going to have to have that ugly ass U.S.B. [TS]

01:40:03   Hub sitting there with all its little things falling out of it because that. [TS]

01:40:07   That's what you're going to have to deal with. [TS]

01:40:09   I think the optical drive and the floppy drive and I would add sealed [TS]

01:40:12   and batteries are great examples to support my point because all those things had a reason. Optical drive. [TS]

01:40:18   Like I was totally in support of that going because like. [TS]

01:40:21   Look what you can see maybe not necessarily for the I'm makin because you could argue that it could hire out there a [TS]

01:40:26   little longer before laptops Hell yes because you would look at what you can do [TS]

01:40:29   when you get rid of that it was this giant that was taken up like a huge percentage of the case yes please get that out [TS]

01:40:35   of their floppy drives like nobody likes floppy drives us be cuter place them like the message of the I'm back was like [TS]

01:40:39   nope it's all U.S.B. There's no A.D.B. [TS]

01:40:41   Stuff like that was a philosophical message expressed by sort of like the paring down of the variety of ports no more [TS]

01:40:48   like printer port and serial port all as I was like old fallen face gone new style here [TS]

01:40:53   but that in just include one of them right. When there's a reason you know the incorporated batteries again. [TS]

01:41:00   Making the university not having the battery door now doing all the stuff like you got something in exchange for [TS]

01:41:05   compromise in a lot of people are angry about those things I really wasn't because I saw what I was getting for it with [TS]

01:41:10   one part. I don't understand what I'm getting for it and that's my complaint about it in a moment. [TS]

01:41:16   I'm not saying you're wrong. [TS]

01:41:17   Really what I'm what I'm thinking is what if this is as you said a philosophical statement that you shouldn't need [TS]

01:41:23   U.S.B. Anymore we're beyond that now. And I know. [TS]

01:41:26   Oh that sounds kind of insane because even I think it sounds kind of insane all the why not put the euro. [TS]

01:41:31   Like that would be a state. [TS]

01:41:32   Because you need some sort of charge so i Pad put zero on it and people are upset about that [TS]

01:41:36   and that was definitely a statement this is not a device that you're on Connect peripheral stuff. Yeah. [TS]

01:41:41   It's a fair it's a fair point I don't mark a word you come down on all this. You know if you think about one. [TS]

01:41:46   When the very first. Mac book Air came out and looked to have an eight was it was around two thousand and eight. [TS]

01:41:53   It had a lot of these limitations. A lot of imitation is that a net. No computer. Even by Apple had that point yet. [TS]

01:42:01   And it was. I mean I had one and it was it was pretty clunky they were it was pretty frustrating to use. [TS]

01:42:08   It had one U.S.B. Port. And one display and one headphone and one power. But you know display never use headphones. [TS]

01:42:16   So you base your had one U.S.B. Port and. That was so annoying. I hit the limitations on that constantly. [TS]

01:42:24   You know these days. It's different these days. [TS]

01:42:27   One of the biggest differences that wireless networking is a lot faster you know that I believe came with it to eleven. [TS]

01:42:31   G. And the port on it. Like I have one little why are you going to Donal's for it. But the porters only U.S.B. Two. [TS]

01:42:39   And that was the even song was only ten one hundred and. And of course the disk in it I didn't have the S.D. [TS]

01:42:44   That was way too expensive. The home Ashima domestic C.B. [TS]

01:42:47   With throttle down and everything to go to hot yep yep [TS]

01:42:50   and the disk I had heard the the one point eight inch hard drive was so incredibly slow. [TS]

01:42:56   And so like transferring files to and from it was excruciating. It took so long. Whether it was wired or wireless. [TS]

01:43:03   It barely even mattered. It would just took forever. And having only that one U.S.B. [TS]

01:43:08   Port even back then into those An even when I only had an i Phone when there were no i Pads yet. [TS]

01:43:13   And I wasn't like you know because these are YOU CAN ALSO LIKE IF you. If you have a camera. [TS]

01:43:17   Most cameras will charge over U.S.B. Now. So if there's so many devices have charged to rehearse be. [TS]

01:43:22   And this is before a lot of extra hard drives are very common I mean really these days. [TS]

01:43:26   As you know in some ways you know if you report in some ways any more ports. [TS]

01:43:30   And I just remember how incredibly frustrating that was back then there's a reason why the next generation of MacBook [TS]

01:43:38   Air added I believe that to ports right now I'm looking at one right now it has one of the left one of the right about [TS]

01:43:44   the most importantly the port does not double as the power connector on the manhunt fiercely so that's that's the [TS]

01:43:50   second issue which we did put aside but I would bring it back [TS]

01:43:53   when it comes to like the reality of this thing it's like one port is one thing but one part that's also power. [TS]

01:43:58   I really need to be convinced that it is able to fill the role the bank safe does in terms of tripping over power cable. [TS]

01:44:03   You know so having owned that first air. It was increased risk. Limiting and frustrating in a lot of ways. [TS]

01:44:11   That being said it was amazing because of how incredibly thin and light it was for the time. [TS]

01:44:17   And it was a giant leap forward for that time. And eventually once. [TS]

01:44:22   Once the the new one came out I think in two thousand and ten when they when they made the the university the good one. [TS]

01:44:27   Well the the from who wanted to anyway. [TS]

01:44:29   When they revise it made and made the good one that we all know now is the mac book air that generation. [TS]

01:44:35   They fix a lot of it and one of the biggest in the fix was they all had S.S.D. If they were really fast and so anyway. [TS]

01:44:40   If this is a this is a major leap forward. In some way or in some ways. [TS]

01:44:47   Then we're going to overlook the one port thing if that's real. [TS]

01:44:50   You know if we're going to overlook that we're going to tolerate it. But the first mac book air. To achieve that. [TS]

01:44:57   Wow factor and these couple areas that also probably shouldn't have been anybody's only computer. And so. [TS]

01:45:04   And so this isn't the first on they've done this. You know they they don't do it often. [TS]

01:45:07   But that this isn't the first time they've done it. They beat everybody with network air though. [TS]

01:45:12   Because they had Intel make that special. [TS]

01:45:14   I think it was a dice shrink [TS]

01:45:15   or whatever was some some special ship made for them that meant they were the first one our it wasn't even so I think [TS]

01:45:20   it was literally a smaller package around the same chip whatever it was like they were they were able to come of the [TS]

01:45:25   machines other people than I was there was the first university which other people didn't have it was also. [TS]

01:45:30   You know the first laptop that you could make this ridiculously thin putting in the Ombudsman everything because they [TS]

01:45:34   had the special chip and all that. That's not the case with us as already. You know P.C. [TS]

01:45:38   Notebooks out that use the same chipsets that are available today that are not as elegant and everything [TS]

01:45:43   but there they are similarly reaping the same adventures that Apple is going to get here because there are the on the [TS]

01:45:48   mark with the same chipsets Apple excuse [TS]

01:45:50   or at least being reviewed because I've read reviews them on site so they don't quite have the same. [TS]

01:45:55   Then they don't have the opportunity to do what they did with the air. [TS]

01:45:58   Or even I would say with the I'm activists point because this rumor design is a symbol of illusion of what they have [TS]

01:46:03   it's Than or it's lighter it's everything so and so forth but it's not going to be the first to market. [TS]

01:46:07   And I don't think they have a special. Maybe they have a special ships that in terms of the G.P.U. [TS]

01:46:11   If it ends up being retina. [TS]

01:46:12   And maybe will be the press red [TS]

01:46:13   and one on the screen which is another wild card as Marvel doesn't say anything about whether the rim of things will [TS]

01:46:17   see retina but I understand what you're saying but I would. [TS]

01:46:20   I would not hold up the first mac book air as a model to be repeated because I think in the end that machine was not [TS]

01:46:26   really a failure [TS]

01:46:27   but it was bad enough that real always be remembered as one of those machines like oh yeah I got one of those [TS]

01:46:32   and it was kind of neat [TS]

01:46:33   but boy like ever wondered has their stories about like what the story's basically the next one that was the one that [TS]

01:46:38   was actually good. [TS]

01:46:39   No I mean and I think that I think that she was a failure like I would be harder on it having owned one. [TS]

01:46:44   I think it was a failure I really like that machine we had an extremely love hate relationship. [TS]

01:46:49   But but you know these days. The technology is better. In. Really important ways. [TS]

01:46:54   Number one being as his deeds are now very cheap and you know relatively speaking. That now S.D.S. [TS]

01:46:59   Can be in all of them so they can be fast and Wireless is faster so that alleviates lot of the I O. [TS]

01:47:04   Bottleneck in and out of that machine that bothered me so much. So this guy. [TS]

01:47:08   If this machine Israel I think this could be good. One of my biggest concerns though is. [TS]

01:47:15   Once again it seems like there prioritizing thinness to an unnecessary degree. At the likely expense of battery life. [TS]

01:47:23   So looking at this machine. If these. If the you specs are even close to true. It is extremely thin. And it's. [TS]

01:47:32   And it allegedly still maintains the teardrop tapered shape. [TS]

01:47:36   Which means we're going to be very little room for much battery in there and if they go in for light weight again. [TS]

01:47:41   Not a lot of weight budget for battery either. So even if in with a very low power chip. [TS]

01:47:47   You still have a big screen and radios. [TS]

01:47:49   They might have got some space back because again in a fantasy machine is rumors they're saying that the trackpad is [TS]

01:47:55   not a mechanical click down I don't understand what it is though [TS]

01:47:57   but if it doesn't go down well it's like the stupid tactic like that all track that's how that we all turn off. [TS]

01:48:02   Is it or is it like pressures [TS]

01:48:03   and Anyway whatever they're saying it seems like they're saying that narrow there may be a sliver of extra room under [TS]

01:48:07   the track that it wasn't there before because you don't need empty space for the trackpad to pivot down into where the [TS]

01:48:12   saying about the that about the truck to the keyboard I thought they might have been saying it about the keyboard. [TS]

01:48:16   No it's a the trackpad doesn't click down anymore like you like and presumably you just have to tap it. [TS]

01:48:21   I was wondering if it was pressure sensitive or something but I mean I'm mostly on bbs machine [TS]

01:48:27   but my two big things are mags A for an Omega safe and and. Give me a reason why there's not more than one port. [TS]

01:48:35   That's not a philosophical reason because I mean that's another thing I thought would be the benefit of the U.S.B. [TS]

01:48:40   Type see connector. They're smaller and. [TS]

01:48:43   You can now you can fit more of them like they're not monstrous things where it's like you could on the original air [TS]

01:48:47   they have it within like the fold down little things they couldn't even if it was on like Johnny's nice curve shape yet [TS]

01:48:52   a little like flap door that would flap open it was. And they get they got over that it's like. [TS]

01:48:57   It's like pop up headlights. Yeah exactly like I was you know. [TS]

01:49:01   It was a thing in the end it feels like you know it just like once they have technology to make a decent life [TS]

01:49:05   and not have them pop up they did it and so like you know. What else about this in the space gray. [TS]

01:49:10   Coming in color something on all of our But that. Yeah I would love a space great. Apple laptop in the BE AWESOME. [TS]

01:49:18   Overall I think it's going to be. It is really interesting. I think though. I am definitely concerned. [TS]

01:49:26   Not about all these other factors not about the. [TS]

01:49:28   The port as much I am mostly concerned about battery life that they have prioritized than this too much. [TS]

01:49:35   And that there won't be very good battery life in this because you know just the listing eleven inch MacBook Air. [TS]

01:49:41   Does not have a battery life. It is much better on the thirteen and because I have more space for a battery. [TS]

01:49:46   I think that if the if you take this machine and you just don't give it a teardrop shape. [TS]

01:49:53   Just make it uniform thickness the way the retina. Thirteen to fifteen or even if it's dinner. [TS]

01:49:58   If it is uniform across the whole thing. [TS]

01:50:01   That leaves surprisingly large amount of volume for batteries in there and I hope they do that but I bet they won't. [TS]

01:50:07   You know. So I have a quick thought and then a question. A quick thought is. What if the brick. [TS]

01:50:13   That is plugging into this one U.S.B. Port. Has U.S.B. Ports on it doesn't help you because under your desk. [TS]

01:50:19   Yeah I mean. And yes we know about the plug bug please stop emailing us. [TS]

01:50:24   Stop right there let me stop your email right there. That's not have a people do though. [TS]

01:50:27   Like the plug is not like [TS]

01:50:29   when you're in a hotel who knows where the plug is on your desk the plug is not always up like. It's a different place. [TS]

01:50:34   People end up using you know people more be more like to use a powered hub. [TS]

01:50:38   I mean it's possible now the other question I have is could this be the first our mac.. [TS]

01:50:43   So that's a good question I think if you look at the i Pad Air two C.P.U. The eight X. [TS]

01:50:50   And you look at the the benchmarks from the new family score am chips that that would be simply the chip to be used in [TS]

01:50:56   the thing. They're pretty close. Actually like they're they're similar in performance that. You know there are. [TS]

01:51:03   I think the UNTIL ONE The Until one is faster single threaded. But not by a massive amount. [TS]

01:51:08   You know that they're in the same ballpark. [TS]

01:51:10   The big question to me is why would they go armed so no question they could if they wanted to they could ship in our [TS]

01:51:17   mac they could compile everything from arm. [TS]

01:51:19   And they could require developers to cross compile for the mac app store and everything. [TS]

01:51:23   Didn't choke point out it was like a merry today as well like. If there was going to be arm. [TS]

01:51:29   They would have to have something like the you know the Intel Developer Program where they shipped out like. [TS]

01:51:35   You know G five. Power my cases with Pentium four is inside them to let people. You know like any C.P.U. [TS]

01:51:41   Transition needs developers on board so that is the case you would expect that transition to proceed the release of the [TS]

01:51:47   machines in the scheduling. If this leak is and in any way real. And we and we expect this machine to see Year. [TS]

01:51:56   When are you going to tell developers by the way you're going to cross involve are merely crappy after the timing seems [TS]

01:52:01   wrong to me for that to be the case. But anyway go on with the feasibility. Yeah well I mean. But again like. [TS]

01:52:05   Well I think it will be less work this time because like you know developers are been dragged through one transition. [TS]

01:52:11   We are not only already familiar with arm for my US [TS]

01:52:14   but in these days developers like by going through the first transition a lot developers move their code to more [TS]

01:52:19   portable code. And so they I think I think it will be a much less involved transition for developers and. I think the. [TS]

01:52:28   The days of Apple. Having some kind of prerelease developer hardware program. I think that's your car. [TS]

01:52:33   Pretty pretty far gone. And I think the way they would do this would be the same way when they when they have like. [TS]

01:52:39   You know new i Pad some of the same with going to the watch like didn't ship a watch to everyone for watching the going [TS]

01:52:44   to happen. You know they're going to they're going to let you submit apps. [TS]

01:52:49   Two weeks ahead of time before Christmas goes on sale. [TS]

01:52:52   But you have all that you have existing software the like in the case of those things you didn't like you have all [TS]

01:52:56   these existing mag out to you have to decide if you're going to like a fat binary thing [TS]

01:53:00   and if you aren't as the to recombine other things as that binary is [TS]

01:53:04   and you have to decide whether his going to be a transition [TS]

01:53:06   or constant parallel thing because his goods are maybe for this machine. [TS]

01:53:09   Still can't compete with the high end machines so it's very nice you're going to still have this giant to back progress [TS]

01:53:13   not going to have an ARM processor and. [TS]

01:53:15   And then you're just going to have two processes forever and like there's errors. [TS]

01:53:20   I think they can definitely make a machine with ARM Prosser The Doesn't it would be reasonably satisfactory [TS]

01:53:24   but all the ancillary bookkeeping [TS]

01:53:27   and strategic things don't quite get make sense to me I don't understand what they would come out on stage [TS]

01:53:32   and say is the reason they're doing this. [TS]

01:53:34   Unless they try to say it because it can be super low power it's like it would be lower power. [TS]

01:53:40   But it wouldn't suddenly become an i Pad right. [TS]

01:53:42   You wouldn't suddenly get twenty four hour battery life where you where you were with with the. [TS]

01:53:47   Same Intel chip you have gotten. You know five or seven like. It's not going to be that big of a difference. [TS]

01:53:52   But I mean for me the biggest thing is I have no question they could do this I have no question they could give [TS]

01:53:58   developers very little notice and we would all just jump. [TS]

01:54:00   And just do it or not we are not a matter of Alper but they would all jump [TS]

01:54:04   and just do it because it wouldn't be that much work for most of them. [TS]

01:54:08   My big thing is same thing as about the ports why. Because there would be a substantial cost to it in. [TS]

01:54:16   During the transition first of all. [TS]

01:54:18   Couldn't run boot camp anymore and you couldn't virtualize windows anymore that's a big problem for a lot of people. [TS]

01:54:23   Once again. I think you know go back to the early discussion. [TS]

01:54:26   This couldn't be your only mac if you do use Windows apps. [TS]

01:54:30   But you know maybe it could be your travel Makar maybe for a lot of us myself included who don't ever run Windows apps. [TS]

01:54:35   They can do it but there are certainly a lot of people need windows so that it would lose the support of all of them. [TS]

01:54:40   For the transition period however long it is before. Most of the apps are all the apps you use. Are compiled for arm. [TS]

01:54:47   How do you run Intel apps. Is there some kind of Rosetta layer because the problem is like when you went from Power P.C. [TS]

01:54:53   To Intel. There was also a massive performance jump. [TS]

01:54:56   I like that you said we've been through one transition before and I know you've been there many. [TS]

01:55:00   Yes I know it but you're right I distrust your point every time there's been a transition. [TS]

01:55:04   There's been some kind of bandage like a. It's a clear transition. This is old that's new. [TS]

01:55:10   Which would not be the case with arm because you'd be like What the hell. [TS]

01:55:12   What's your story for the macro you're going to go over that crazy twelve Koran browser where is that anyway. [TS]

01:55:17   Wouldn't even be a transition and be every time there has been transition. [TS]

01:55:20   It's been some way for you to keep using your crap. In the short term. [TS]

01:55:23   And it was usable because the transition came with a big performance boost. [TS]

01:55:27   Whereas in this case if you're going from Intel to arm. [TS]

01:55:30   It's actually a little bit slower [TS]

01:55:32   and possibly a little harder gives not forking out a meaningless until setting for you exactly. [TS]

01:55:36   So you're not going to have. I've extremely. You know good enough. [TS]

01:55:40   You know I can have good enough and you'll a sion speaker [TS]

01:55:43   or translation speed of an intel binary run arm laptop like that's that's going to suck. And be either. [TS]

01:55:50   Either not available at all or be pretty slow and probably unusable for a lot of people so I just I don't. [TS]

01:55:56   I don't see why it makes sense to have this be arm. As long as Intel chips can get close enough. [TS]

01:56:02   In power usage [TS]

01:56:03   and I think the I think they with the core am I think we're seeing they pretty much can like not the arm and leg [TS]

01:56:09   and hugely behind with the transition costs of of switching are. [TS]

01:56:14   There's no clear reason right now why they need to me that transition there's no there's no massive gain to be had on [TS]

01:56:19   the other side that we can see right now. [TS]

01:56:21   Long term there might be and they might choose to make that transition at some other time. [TS]

01:56:25   But and for for instance one of the biggest gains could be. [TS]

01:56:29   I [TS]

01:56:30   but Apple's pretty sore with until right now because of the Broadwell delays have been delayed Apple's entire product line. [TS]

01:56:36   It's not so much of the store with them they just like the long term strategic advantage would be a good example on [TS]

01:56:40   stone [TS]

01:56:40   and control of the major technology is the blood of all the blood like that whole thing that's why because they can [TS]

01:56:45   make that switch any time they want. I mean yeah yeah just are sometimes are like. If that like. [TS]

01:56:50   If they did if they CAN I was in our machine. I think the message would be that this may be a longer transition. [TS]

01:56:56   But it will be a transition and eventually every single piece of hardware Apple sells will have an ARM C.B. [TS]

01:57:01   You designed by Apple in fad by our rabble can get to fab for them like that would be the long term vision is like [TS]

01:57:07   short term who are going to suck for you because all for all there is a market is that it's not going to be able to [TS]

01:57:10   emulate your stuff it's not going to be a huge increase in performance in fact it might be a dip. [TS]

01:57:14   But long term it's important for Apple the company to own [TS]

01:57:17   or control the major technology of the contributors products and Bob Law. [TS]

01:57:20   And that's a crappy message because you're like I don't care about Apple's long term strategy as some good products now. [TS]

01:57:24   Right and so. [TS]

01:57:26   And it's not like Apple needs to do this to save itself from destruction like well I understand you gotta do what you [TS]

01:57:31   gotta do Apple. I still I would still be like I was simply working with Intel. Working on Intel. [TS]

01:57:40   Maybe by Intel if you have to like whatever you got a lot of money. Work something out because. Switching to arm. [TS]

01:57:49   Would be short term as in like the next few years. Not so great for Apple's customers and. [TS]

01:57:55   Maybe this is not the best time to be doing that all right thanks a lot two or three sponsors this week. [TS]

01:58:02   Casper hover an automatic. And we will see you next week. Now the show is over. [TS]

01:58:11   They didn't even mean to be as it was accidental. It was accidental. John because it was that death was accidental. [TS]

01:58:29   And you didn't he. [TS]

01:58:42   Well it says so that's keep lists and the team article says the risk you need to hire an editor or something. [TS]

01:59:10   Weren't you an editor of Fortune editor for a while is that all that work. You can't be your own editor. [TS]

01:59:16   I know I'm just I was senator for like five minutes and you could be your own editor. You can. [TS]

01:59:22   You could be your own editor. [TS]

01:59:24   And I quit that's part of the experience of being a blogger it's like you don't have a staff. [TS]

01:59:28   Like you don't have people doing other stuff or you're doing it all. [TS]

01:59:31   You're writing your conceptualized new thing you're assigned to yourself you're writing it you're editing your copy [TS]

01:59:36   editing you're putting into the C.M.S. You're running the web. Like you're doing the whole thing. [TS]

01:59:41   So I feel I mean you can't do as good a job as all of us an entire staff [TS]

01:59:45   but you don't want to have an entire step with part of the whole blogging things so I mean it's. [TS]

01:59:51   If you look at things you have written recently go back to things. Hero before you. The system is working as designed. [TS]