The Accidental Tech Podcast

9: Fish Bicycle Scenario


00:00:00   that's what we talked about tonight I think it was actually kind of a slow [TS]

00:00:03   week in tech news it was i think one thing I definitely did wanna talk about [TS]

00:00:08   them and I probably should have read more about it beforehand but oh well is [TS]

00:00:13   this IDC PC sales are doomed to report and do either of you know specifics I [TS]

00:00:21   know the gist of it is that PC sales are way way down 14% or something right but [TS]

00:00:27   isn't that like the biggest drop in a decade or so I don't like it was an [TS]

00:00:31   industry that was always growing like every year you sold a little bit more [TS]

00:00:33   and then justice like not just a you know I slowing growth but a reversal now [TS]

00:00:38   it's alright don't even know if its reversal say none of us rather than 40% [TS]

00:00:43   like a 90% dropper 14 percent but people forget about it if you were to grab hold [TS]

00:00:49   these numbers I think it would look like oh it's clear that you know like [TS]

00:00:54   growth is leveling off and it's our turn downward and you know that's what you [TS]

00:01:00   would expect right i you know i i don't know why I think it's it's worth [TS]

00:01:05   discussing and and thinking about why people buy new PCs and and when people [TS]

00:01:12   buy new PCs because obviously some degree of this growth was you know just [TS]

00:01:20   population growing and more people getting a computer at all and so you [TS]

00:01:27   know I'm sure I'm sure that factor was responsible for probably the majority of [TS]

00:01:32   PC sales may be in the nineties and probably a good amount of PC sales still [TS]

00:01:36   in the 2000 but I would guess that and now you know these days the PC market [TS]

00:01:45   probably realize a lot of upgrades in this decade and and the last one [TS]

00:01:51   probably as well and and so you know I have these theories and and I don't [TS]

00:01:55   really have anything to back this up except my own personal experience and [TS]

00:01:59   having having previously been a PC guy and a tech support guy in every [TS]

00:02:03   else one of my theories is you know so in the nineties when when I got my first [TS]

00:02:11   computer and so this is when I started paying attention plus I was a little bit [TS]

00:02:15   young in the eighties but so in the nineties I feel like most people like [TS]

00:02:20   white why would you upgrade your computer why would you buy a new [TS]

00:02:22   computer and I feel like you know in the nineties that the biggest reasons were [TS]

00:02:27   significant speed upgrades or new capabilities like if your old computer [TS]

00:02:33   didn't have a modem and you either a tournament your computer you got a new [TS]

00:02:37   computer with a modem later on you get you have networking support you know [TS]

00:02:40   once once broadband comes in the very late nineties you had the addition of [TS]

00:02:45   things like sound cards and CD rom drives and you know major major new [TS]

00:02:50   hardware capabilities that sometimes required new computers and sometimes we [TS]

00:02:53   get done as as upgrades and then similarly like back in the nineties Ram [TS]

00:02:59   was so incredibly scares that an old computer and a new computer would [TS]

00:03:05   actually be substantially differently performing even just like two years [TS]

00:03:09   later because the new computer would be able to afford more RAM and you know [TS]

00:03:14   CPUs were doing things like adding Masco processors and adding hardware [TS]

00:03:20   floating-point stability like things that they get that now just every [TS]

00:03:24   computer and watch and HDMI adapter has built in but back then they didn't [TS]

00:03:30   mission impossible operating system operating system will self-destruct in [TS]

00:03:35   six months to two years there you just slowly get worse and worse and worse in [TS]

00:03:39   what is a regular person do in that situation [TS]

00:03:41   time to buy a new computer I mean that that's what it comes down to is like if [TS]

00:03:44   the thing you have it gets worse [TS]

00:03:48   are broken or bad or inadequate in some way that's when you replace it a good [TS]

00:03:52   comparison is television sets where the television set you had it still shows TV [TS]

00:03:57   shows as it turned onto the channel change our camp fun and HDTV was like ok [TS]

00:04:01   well now I feel it is inadequate because I saw my friends HDTV and mine doesn't [TS]

00:04:06   look like that it's time to buy new to you but otherwise people who are not [TS]

00:04:09   video files we just keep their TV and less TV stopped [TS]

00:04:12   performing what the job it was supposed to do and a poppy seeds used to be like [TS]

00:04:16   you by a man in two years [TS]

00:04:18   like it would if it wasn't even as good as the day you bought it for getting [TS]

00:04:21   compared to your friend's computer also pales in comparison but it just it just [TS]

00:04:24   degraded like you know software gets lower and viruses and well that was [TS]

00:04:29   later this week I feel like like so in like in the 2000 that I would say that [TS]

00:04:34   was more than a bit like in the nineties I think it was much more about things [TS]

00:04:39   that were like computers were actually advancing significantly past their [TS]

00:04:43   hardware capability here every year you see your friend writer the computer in [TS]

00:04:49   the shower rooms and it would be like looking at the radio TV and HDTV be like [TS]

00:04:54   oh well mine sucks but like in the end of the 2000 I feel like there's also [TS]

00:04:59   this major moves towards laptops and wireless and and that that helped drive [TS]

00:05:04   a lot of cells and another way your link itself is being he's being cool and hip [TS]

00:05:09   and I'm attached to this I get the calls for Hightower [TS]

00:05:13   to that end when I was in school which was 2003 2004 I got a ThinkPad that had [TS]

00:05:21   a built-in 802 11 be cards so rather than having this PCMCIA card with the [TS]

00:05:27   little pimple on that little it was this huge boldest thing sticking out the side [TS]

00:05:32   in sdcard does in a match today [TS]

00:05:35   well I actually had a ThinkPad with the bill teen and I think was a Cisco Cardno [TS]

00:05:39   last man I thought I was hot stuff [TS]

00:05:42   the three places on campus that actually had wireless at Virginia Tech at the [TS]

00:05:46   time I could do it without having that stupid PCMCIA card hang out of my [TS]

00:05:50   computer and it was amazing but it's interesting because it's a go back a [TS]

00:05:54   step I remember vividly my dad and I taking our 386 and adding a math [TS]

00:06:00   coprocessor to it and in so I feel ya exactly and so I feel like there was a [TS]

00:06:06   wave there was a period of time where advances were happening slow enough that [TS]

00:06:09   you could kind of staple them on the computer you had [TS]

00:06:12   and I wouldn't based on no fax whatsoever I feel like that was early to [TS]

00:06:16   mid nineties and Marco I think you're right then all of a sudden velocity [TS]

00:06:19   really cranked up in then you had to replace an entire computer an entire [TS]

00:06:24   motherboard get the next advancement to be fair prices plummeted during that [TS]

00:06:27   same time my first computer and ninety-four was a $2,500 and then by 97 [TS]

00:06:33   I built a whole new one from parts for like nine hundred I mean it was it was a [TS]

00:06:36   substantial difference you know so consolidation shrinking its many can fit [TS]

00:06:40   more stuff on fewer chips here just cost less money blah blah [TS]

00:06:43   to the point where you are iPhone zeroual system but I feel like you know [TS]

00:06:49   in the two thousands there were still these things happen there were still [TS]

00:06:53   these these big new reasons why you'd want a new computer and a lot of that [TS]

00:06:58   had to do with wireless and people moving from default of buying desktops [TS]

00:07:02   to default of buying laptops but I think a lot like I was working briefly in the [TS]

00:07:08   tech support business in the mid to thousands and I was for very many years [TS]

00:07:13   before and after that still doing it like on the side for friends and family [TS]

00:07:16   and stuff and it was very very clear that starting in the early to mid to [TS]

00:07:23   thousands a lot of people were replacing perfectly good computers because they [TS]

00:07:28   were full of malware and people thought oh it has slowed down because it's too [TS]

00:07:31   old I guess I have to get a new one they wouldn't think to reformat and reinstall [TS]

00:07:35   windows like that that was never considered they would just go out and [TS]

00:07:38   buy a new computer even though the difficult was perfectly fine hardware [TS]

00:07:42   wise and which is a comical and tragic waste of resources but I feel like that [TS]

00:07:48   that's certainly boosted PC sales and probably is still to some extent [TS]

00:07:52   although anti-malware tools are way better now and and way more widespread [TS]

00:07:57   but what can you really have a lot of know exactly like people don't know a [TS]

00:08:02   regular people don't know like they would say I'm not a space at your new [TS]

00:08:07   computer and I didn't knowingly do anything to make it slow so the US in [TS]

00:08:13   must be the technology has progressed past me and it's time to get new [TS]

00:08:17   hardware where you're absolutely right in reality it is well in john is right [TS]

00:08:21   as well you know its mission Impossible operating system where [TS]

00:08:24   every six months ago have to reinstall windows from scratch and especially [TS]

00:08:27   without really good backup solutions or I mean this is a time before in home [TS]

00:08:32   networks were a thing for the most part I and it was and it was very expensive [TS]

00:08:36   to have three times as much harder spaces you actually need it right now [TS]

00:08:41   herself through his accuser's are probably have the highest percentage of [TS]

00:08:46   anybody just because Apple's incredible push with Time Machine and like the [TS]

00:08:49   Apple store experience where there's likely to be someone during your [TS]

00:08:53   purchase experience who told you the time she exists in this thing you might [TS]

00:08:56   want to consider doing and it's not that hard but the percentage is probably just [TS]

00:08:59   depressingly low for Mac users and even more depressing over regular people [TS]

00:09:04   yesterday I would guess that's true but either way my point is that let's say [TS]

00:09:09   you had and i dont member of really valid number of the time let's just say [TS]

00:09:13   you had to give mp3's in early two thousands were gonna put that give mp3's [TS]

00:09:18   while you're reinstalling everything on your hard drive and I mean you could [TS]

00:09:22   burn it to CD and obviously there's many other options that existed but they were [TS]

00:09:25   commonplace and that's assuming you're confident enough in your abilities to [TS]

00:09:29   even reinstall windows of which eliminates 99% of the population to [TS]

00:09:32   begin with everyone was just raced into the arms of the plants like devices like [TS]

00:09:37   iPods and smartphones because I mean that's that's the story is like okay [TS]

00:09:41   people are buying PCs by because they replace their PCs with a smartphone or [TS]

00:09:45   with an iPod over the combination because if you had to give mp3 you're [TS]

00:09:48   probably pretty to begin with and but if anyone with the gang of mp3's who is not [TS]

00:09:54   guilty probably has it on a phone and ipod that works more like an appliance [TS]

00:09:57   that gives them a fighting chance of preserving that in some way like like [TS]

00:10:02   they trashed their PC they get a new one but it just plug the iPod into an assist [TS]

00:10:05   you want to sync with this I don't even know if you do that crap but like I [TS]

00:10:09   would imagine that the lifeboat for their music is these small hand-held [TS]

00:10:14   appliance like the license and is not so much like how they like them better [TS]

00:10:16   businessman handheld and people have to have phone anyways just a day work [TS]

00:10:20   there's so much so much more friendly to people there you know you can't screw it [TS]

00:10:24   up you can stop sign install apps is very little you can do anything [TS]

00:10:27   specifically Apple devices but even even Android phones are much less [TS]

00:10:31   intimidating a much less easy to accidentally screw up then a PC so yeah [TS]

00:10:37   so surprised that people say well I can get facebook on this I can send text [TS]

00:10:41   messages I can make phone calls I can look at the few websites I want to do [TS]

00:10:44   and I get netflix on my TV y remind me again why I have a computer [TS]

00:10:50   well thats I think that's why I like a lot of people a lot of people are [TS]

00:10:53   assuming this report is is assuming that this decline in PC sales as is being [TS]

00:10:58   caused by tablets and I think it's really being more caused by smartphones [TS]

00:11:04   tablets and they they don't help matters but smartphones [TS]

00:11:11   seems gotta be by far because like it's it's the stealing the growth market of [TS]

00:11:16   the people who previously were going to buy a computer but now don't feel the [TS]

00:11:20   need for one of those keep upgrading the phone every couple of years for similar [TS]

00:11:23   cost to buying it really terrible PCs are way cheaper than you think they're [TS]

00:11:29   done well by Costco and Sam's Club [TS]

00:11:34   like the phone is a similar cost it's it's you know $2.99 for your fancy smart [TS]

00:11:39   phone + the contract to your program anyway like that's that's factored in [TS]

00:11:45   its like well you got a cell phone and data plans little more expensive that [TS]

00:11:49   only 300 bucks but you could see an honestly you should buy three ended on [TS]

00:11:53   smartphones that if you say it will be much more satisfied with only 10 at this [TS]

00:11:57   in this day in age if you are at all interested in a new computer and you [TS]

00:12:02   live in a first world country you probably have already owned one you know [TS]

00:12:06   you're like you know ten years old but you've probably already own one and so [TS]

00:12:12   you are faced not necessarily with the decision of should go out and buy a new [TS]

00:12:16   PC this year but should I upgrade my PC this year and that I feel like people [TS]

00:12:23   are doing so much more so much more on their phones now the phones have become [TS]

00:12:27   the primary computing device for so many people that that like I feel like the [TS]

00:12:34   so many people probably have this these great new smartphones whatever kinda [TS]

00:12:39   really care these great new smartphones [TS]

00:12:42   and then they have some laptop from 2008 that's like creaking and falling apart [TS]

00:12:48   you know some Dell Inspiron piece of garbage and discreetly plastic thing [TS]

00:12:53   that has been on XP on it that you know they hardly ever use maybe they open up [TS]

00:12:57   a couple times a year to get some files or you know do something that they can [TS]

00:13:03   do on their phone but like what's their motivation to upgrade the computer ever [TS]

00:13:07   as long as it still works and even want to hear it breaks what's the motivation [TS]

00:13:11   I have to wonder like how many people like this a minimum amount of computing [TS]

00:13:16   space in the Internet age that you have to do to feel like you're part of [TS]

00:13:19   society you have to do not necessarily have to have a Facebook page but [TS]

00:13:23   probably have to have email and you probably have to know about the web and [TS]

00:13:26   you know this is the baseline of like you are part of our regular first-world [TS]

00:13:30   country society you have some connection to the Internet and electronic device [TS]

00:13:34   and that's that's the thing that used to be bringing people on there by PCs but I [TS]

00:13:40   wonder how many of the people like once you cross that baseline how many people [TS]

00:13:43   use personal computers for leisure I guess getting quotes or whatever like [TS]

00:13:47   where most of the time you're at work here commuting your you doin stuff you [TS]

00:13:52   not like your leisure time a small for the working person during the day you [TS]

00:13:56   have you had your job you have your family have always trusted you have a [TS]

00:13:59   small man of leisure time per day they can watch TV go to a movie go out like [TS]

00:14:03   whatever you want to do during that leisure time to engage in your hobbies [TS]

00:14:06   how many people choose to take any portion of that leisure time and sit in [TS]

00:14:10   front of a personal computer I would imagine it's a very small especially if [TS]

00:14:14   they can get their sort of societal baseline participation in the Internet [TS]

00:14:18   age all during the day by looking at their phone [TS]

00:14:20   well i i wouldn't assume it's that small of people who want to to have computing [TS]

00:14:26   like activities during that time I think I think especially social networking [TS]

00:14:30   especially Facebook but even before that the actual games you know so I feel like [TS]

00:14:36   we still in fact I would even say that it's probably likely that that number [TS]

00:14:41   people is still increasing the number of people who would rather spend their [TS]

00:14:45   leisure time either in a TV was obviously the big answers in the past [TS]

00:14:50   and still is probably the predominant answer but now you have a especially as [TS]

00:14:55   computers moved first to laptops and now just two phones and tablets so so [TS]

00:14:59   predominantly now you have the option to be checking email and browsing Facebook [TS]

00:15:04   while you have the TV on attention to it and that's a very popular option and [TS]

00:15:09   there's a lot of people who just go to the computer room or the computer desk [TS]

00:15:12   word over and spend their time their leisure time browsing Facebook and [TS]

00:15:18   playing Little games and stuff instead of watching TV so that i think is is [TS]

00:15:22   still growing and still has plenty of room to grow when i picture that I have [TS]

00:15:26   trouble picture someone going on I guess maybe it's because I'm picturing a [TS]

00:15:29   desktop computer that's why I can't picture it maybe if I picture a laptop [TS]

00:15:32   in there on the couch anyway that seems more plausible but i just want to see [TS]

00:15:35   them I see them getting this done throughout the course of the day with [TS]

00:15:39   their phone and even when they're sitting and watching TV and having the [TS]

00:15:42   next time I don't see anyone going off in your room with his desktop sitting on [TS]

00:15:45   that chair and doing stuff for long periods of time and I don't see people [TS]

00:15:48   so much sitting on the couch with a laptop so but I think that used to do [TS]

00:15:51   that until phones and a little bit tablets but I don't know it's hard for [TS]

00:15:55   me to gauge because like this circle of computer connectivity savvy surrounding [TS]

00:16:01   me through my own influence of like my family and everything making them all go [TS]

00:16:05   get iPods and computers and like I don't know what it's like outside that circle [TS]

00:16:10   and also it's also worth considering the connectivity problems that certainly at [TS]

00:16:17   your house [TS]

00:16:18   people who have computers tend to have wifi these days usually comes for free [TS]

00:16:22   with your internet connection but you know if if you if you want if you have a [TS]

00:16:27   laptop and you want to bring any where most people don't tether most people [TS]

00:16:31   don't have 3G cards no laptops most people in their laptops are only [TS]

00:16:36   connected if they have wifi somewhere and despite what many geeks like to [TS]

00:16:40   think wifi is nowhere near ubiquitous not even close and so but if they have a [TS]

00:16:48   smartphone that's effectively always connected and so it's almost like I feel [TS]

00:16:55   like computers now this isn't perfect but bear with me [TS]

00:16:59   computers now are kind of like PDA's in [TS]

00:17:05   like [TS]

00:17:07   they were cool and you have their uses for them but these other things are [TS]

00:17:11   coming up and then just destroying the relevance of that market because I wiped [TS]

00:17:16   out like PDA is no it won't and that's why it's not a perfect analogy but it's [TS]

00:17:20   i think it's a similar level of relevance to people now sort of what you [TS]

00:17:25   forget as a spoiled person who works out of the house and doesn't have to go to [TS]

00:17:28   an office i John and I is that even business people who don't under stricter [TS]

00:17:34   sense they dare to their living isn't in the computer by that I mean they're not [TS]

00:17:37   writing code or doing something along those lines business people still have [TS]

00:17:41   PCs in droves because they need to do corporate email me to write Word [TS]

00:17:44   documents and they need to write power points and so on and so forth so I don't [TS]

00:17:48   think anything you've said is necessarily incorrect but I think we [TS]

00:17:50   should point out that this is all true of outside of the workplace activities [TS]

00:17:54   and all sorts of professions these days are still completely and utterly tied to [TS]

00:18:01   having a computer in front of you always during the workday canary like to see [TS]

00:18:07   like I don't know if that's a good question I got the study States going to [TS]

00:18:11   be you know going forward like how the settlers sort of how how TV vs movies [TS]

00:18:15   kind of settled in after the invention of television and you know it didn't [TS]

00:18:18   worry about movies but the ratio sort of adjusted to a steady state but not as [TS]

00:18:23   dramatic as there was no TV and all of a sudden there is check out but yeah once [TS]

00:18:27   the once the majority of people are who would have gone into work and sign in [TS]

00:18:31   front of a PC no longer do that and he said in front of something else that'll [TS]

00:18:35   be the bell and that's why I think the PC won't you know like like the movie [TS]

00:18:39   theater PC won't go away because there are certain tasks that depends on your [TS]

00:18:45   PC [TS]

00:18:46   a big screen with a nice keyboard that you sit in front of but actually all of [TS]

00:18:50   this is a bunch of naked peripherals that you walk up to with your phone in a [TS]

00:18:54   magical index is at a PC anymore is that your smartphone right I don't know the [TS]

00:18:58   semantics and I'm saying like a thing with a large screen and more efficient [TS]

00:19:03   input device that you can get in a handheld device [TS]

00:19:05   whatever that thing is I'm just gonna continue calling it a PC I don't think [TS]

00:19:10   people are going to go to work and not sit in front of the one of those are [TS]

00:19:14   even like even if it's like you go to work and you [TS]

00:19:17   put your hands into the neuro receptors and put on your glasses like the thing [TS]

00:19:20   that thing that you that is at your desk lets you get your job done that's not [TS]

00:19:24   going to be a phone because like the constraints of different you don't have [TS]

00:19:27   it doesn't have to be small to fit in your pocket why why would it be no maybe [TS]

00:19:30   the entire smart save your work experience are on something the size of [TS]

00:19:33   a phone you carry with you but that that experience of you know taking advantage [TS]

00:19:38   of the fact that you don't have to be battery-powered all the time and you [TS]

00:19:41   don't have to fit into your pocket you can work more efficiently when those [TS]

00:19:45   concerns you listed and I don't think that will go away but I do think those [TS]

00:19:48   constraints don't apply to lots of activities like you know Dorking around [TS]

00:19:52   on the web they're reading reading my pages are you now playing on Facebook [TS]

00:19:55   using Twitter whatever like so many categories of things you don't need [TS]

00:19:59   those constraints so I I think the the ratio will adjust between these smart [TS]

00:20:03   devices and I think eventually it will start to blur where the only distinction [TS]

00:20:06   really is how much room do you have for input-output peripherals and how much [TS]

00:20:11   what is your power budget are you near a plug do you need to be portable that [TS]

00:20:16   seems like what the long-term thing is where this distinction between smart [TS]

00:20:19   phone to PC will be we'll keep trying to drive a little fuzzy line as they slowly [TS]

00:20:22   you know emerged not that we're all using smartphones again but like you [TS]

00:20:27   know once once the smart cuts and the input-output start becoming sort of [TS]

00:20:32   interchangeable it really doesn't make sense to this kind of like you know me I [TS]

00:20:35   pay came out of the closet to PC I don't like it throws the old categories for [TS]

00:20:39   the only know how to talk about it I think stepping back a half step first I [TS]

00:20:45   wonder how much of this PC sales downturn businesses are responsible for [TS]

00:20:50   museum we know businesses by lots of PCs they always have and I don't think [TS]

00:20:55   that's a silly changing however at least not yet as yummy as you said I think you [TS]

00:21:00   know who knows what it will be in five or 10 years but certainly for now it [TS]

00:21:04   does seem like everyone still buying PCs and using Office apps and stuff like [TS]

00:21:08   that and that's I think it's going to be with us for quite some time but you know [TS]

00:21:14   how much do you have any new PCs do businesses by in a recession where [TS]

00:21:19   there's no new jobs for people you know if you don't if you aren't hiring a lot [TS]

00:21:24   of people then you are buying PCs for new employees [TS]

00:21:28   and some some Beano annual number of PCs that will fail or wear out or be lost by [TS]

00:21:36   salesman and need to be replaced in any organization but beside that basic churn [TS]

00:21:41   rate of replacements like what what reason would businesses have to upgrade [TS]

00:21:47   their systems if they've found something that works for them like what what is [TS]

00:21:52   the business world business software world offered to justify upgrades in the [TS]

00:21:58   last 10 12 years but in my experience in the corporate studio world and the the [TS]

00:22:06   upgrade rate doesn't seem to have changed much like that it seemed like [TS]

00:22:11   the personal computers on people's best turned over at the same rate when I [TS]

00:22:15   started in the job market and like the late nineties and now which is not [TS]

00:22:20   particularly rapid one to three years in different countries have different [TS]

00:22:24   policies and depends on the time of the size of the company and the bureaucracy [TS]

00:22:27   in the kind of deals they have with Dell for their whatever the point but it [TS]

00:22:32   wasn't like oh back back when the internet was new [TS]

00:22:35   we got a new PC every year but now it's every three years I murder my career has [TS]

00:22:39   been a similar turnover rate was just surprised but surprisingly slow for me [TS]

00:22:43   like to the point where most of the people have a PC that they're using that [TS]

00:22:47   they think is old and crappy and they don't like but they start to wait [TS]

00:22:50   another year before they can get a new I would agree with that I would actually [TS]

00:22:53   also double down and say that in my experience and and I work for a fairly [TS]

00:22:58   small consulting firm in Richmond but we consult with fairly large companies some [TS]

00:23:04   of which are you know fortune 1000 fortune 500 or something like that big [TS]

00:23:07   is the point in driving out and in both our firm and and and our clients i've [TS]

00:23:12   seen a MacBook Air application of general laptops in the workplace and by [TS]

00:23:18   that I mean not necessarily everyone's getting a MacBook Air but almost [TS]

00:23:22   everyone I know that it doesn't write code for a living some regular people [TS]

00:23:26   they're all getting either MacBook Airs and that does happen or they're getting [TS]

00:23:30   whatever Dell or Lenovo equivalent is that's very thin very small very light [TS]

00:23:36   and very portable [TS]

00:23:37   and I kinda goes back to what you were saying John about you know what will the [TS]

00:23:41   future bring its portability really paramount and it seems like even for [TS]

00:23:46   people who don't travel for a living everyone had a laptop now and everyone's [TS]

00:23:50   got something that vaguely resembles MacBook Air and and or is a MacBook Air [TS]

00:23:54   and furthermore a lot of times I wonder if the PC sales downturns are related to [TS]

00:23:58   Apple doing better in the business world and you could attribute that to maybe [TS]

00:24:02   people bringing their own devices and I T departments being forced into [TS]

00:24:06   supporting them you could say it's because I T is chosen to support them [TS]

00:24:11   but one way or another it seems like a lot of see a lot more max today than I [TS]

00:24:16   ever have before and I don't think that's a particularly profound statement [TS]

00:24:19   or observation and so I wonder if that's reflected in this report the sighting [TS]

00:24:24   Marco that that PCs aren't selling as well I wonder also how much has to do [TS]

00:24:29   with because so many business computers used to be desk jobs and so many of them [TS]

00:24:35   in our laptops even for like regular employees that that probably could have [TS]

00:24:39   a desktop for so many businesses now laptops are the new default or the most [TS]

00:24:44   common type that they buy laptops don't last as long as desktops in in use [TS]

00:24:49   you know like they first of all if you if you have some kind of turnover like [TS]

00:24:53   you know if if you if you come into a job it wouldn't be that unheard of for [TS]

00:24:58   them to give you somebody else's desktop that's like a year and a half old that [TS]

00:25:02   snow still works fine for your job purposes then you get someone else's [TS]

00:25:05   computer you might if you're looking at a new keyboard that's about it but with [TS]

00:25:10   a laptop like a it so much harder sell to use someones used laptop because [TS]

00:25:15   you're talking about a second well but how use because laptop show where as [TS]

00:25:22   likely to replace a keeper for $12 and it looks new but a laptop like someone [TS]

00:25:32   else [TS]

00:25:35   out there in the real world ok well the other thing is at least also with [TS]

00:25:41   laptops that they tend to have two major problems one is that they just because [TS]

00:25:47   their portable because they're gonna have been around a bit [TS]

00:25:49   they I don't think they tend to last as long as you understand right and the [TS]

00:25:56   second thing is a very very common problem is a new screen repair and [TS]

00:26:02   screen repairs usually once had a warrant either almost never worth doing [TS]

00:26:05   because they're so expensive laptop so I feel like in general I if I had to guess [TS]

00:26:10   I would guess that the that the average business laptop is in service for less [TS]

00:26:16   time than the average Business Desktop that would make you think they'd be [TS]

00:26:20   replacing the more I see I see how the PCs are treated in the office now [TS]

00:26:24   there's so many more of them I feel like Adobe owes the world like some [TS]

00:26:29   restitution for their / destroys laptop PC it like I see these point when he was [TS]

00:26:37   like yeah they do like Google handover never thought I'd like anything that [TS]

00:26:42   involves / whenever I'm in a meeting and I hear someone's tiny little high rpm [TS]

00:26:47   laptop fan going it's a good bet to work around their screen had some tablets I'm [TS]

00:26:52   stupid flash thing and I hear it you know that sound to the laptop of the [TS]

00:26:57   fans cranked up unless you're doing like H 264 encoding or something that [TS]

00:27:01   shouldn't be happening your work machine but it's so common and I'm like that's [TS]

00:27:04   good things in your coffee on and around and drop in on the table and tipping off [TS]

00:27:12   your desk and all the other terrible things that happened to laptops on top [TS]

00:27:16   of that they're all running hotter than they should be [TS]

00:27:18   flash and the other thing I should point out is that again being as part of a [TS]

00:27:22   small firm think we have somewhere around 80 employees at small yea oh my [TS]

00:27:28   god you have no idea but anyways so being part of a small firm believer not [TS]

00:27:32   we are relatively progressive in so we have been issuing max to people that are [TS]

00:27:38   not developers and we've been issuing them to developers for a while because [TS]

00:27:41   the developers are demanding it but [TS]

00:27:43   one of the reasons that we are very reluctant to issue max to regular people [TS]

00:27:50   whom don't really need it is that really use of whom now probably not I get [TS]

00:27:56   yelled at so many times as who that guy whatever it doesn't matter the point of [TS]

00:28:00   every time I say who every time the point of driving at is that the reason [TS]

00:28:05   we don't get max more often is because dell has such an unbelievably great worn [TS]

00:28:11   two year warranty but service plan such that you can pretty much dropkick Adele [TS]

00:28:17   and they will be there either that day or the next day with whatever part you [TS]

00:28:20   need there will come to our office they will fix it and you'll be done within 24 [TS]

00:28:24   hours how much of these days PC vendors to realize how much they owe to Apple's [TS]

00:28:28   complete indifference to the enterprise not they're just not interested but Del [TS]

00:28:33   comes in return that's nice people doing on site help is laughable there there [TS]

00:28:40   are like Apple business liaisons in like they make motions in that direction but [TS]

00:28:44   they're not willing to do what it takes not nor should they be as far as I'm [TS]

00:28:46   concerned like I think they're wise to stay out of that business it's poison [TS]

00:28:50   but by Apple being so terribly business and so terrible service businesses [TS]

00:28:54   compared to you no doubt heard any other resellers PC recently was here just [TS]

00:28:59   willing to do anything for you and just have a machine raid execute that is it's [TS]

00:29:04   got to be keeping many crappy PC companies afloat because like you know [TS]

00:29:09   like a said I have also experienced an incredible increase in recent years of [TS]

00:29:14   regular non geek people who want apple hardware whether they're gonna be phones [TS]

00:29:20   to replace that Blackberry or laptops to replace their laptops and are willing to [TS]

00:29:25   make noise about it and make it happen and companies and that that is a fairly [TS]

00:29:32   new phenomenon in my work experience where it used to be people were a little [TS]

00:29:37   bit disgruntled new look at the new Little Mac everything out whatever I [TS]

00:29:40   gotta get my work done but now likely across some sort of threshold where like [TS]

00:29:44   you know what what why can't I have a Mac I think that would be nice and then [TS]

00:29:48   the party companies have to [TS]

00:29:50   local gets it and what happens when it goes bad like I T people have my horror [TS]

00:29:56   stories like I had to go to the Apple store like that's not how it works [TS]

00:30:00   you're not supposed to take human beings to carry your computer to a store in a [TS]

00:30:04   mall that is not how corporate I T works when it wants that happened so that [TS]

00:30:08   tension still exists there and I don't think I'm interested in that market and [TS]

00:30:12   so I don't know how that's going to resolve itself because the people wanted [TS]

00:30:15   but it's terrible experience for corporate I T [TS]

00:30:18   gets worse because the particular MacBook Pro I have a 15 inch non retin a [TS]

00:30:26   late 2011 and we put 16 gigs RAM in this thing and most my co-workers have [TS]

00:30:31   basically the same machine and one of the machine one of my coworkers machines [TS]

00:30:36   there his mother board got fried somehow and so RIT got a Mac I believe it's [TS]

00:30:42   called a logic board over San Marco email but anyway about whom as well but [TS]

00:30:48   anyway the point I'm driving it is is that the the RIT guy who's an awesome [TS]

00:30:53   awesome awesome guy he took it to the mall to the local Apple store which is [TS]

00:30:56   literally three miles from our office and they took one look at it and said oh [TS]

00:31:01   this model doesn't support 16 gigs of ram that's why fried motherboard the [TS]

00:31:04   logic board that'll be $700 police and you think Dell would do that absolutely [TS]

00:31:08   not tell why did he go to the most I got my was I was just about to give [TS]

00:31:13   disclaimers likely is done right now has actual business service now this was [TS]

00:31:16   like stories from along time ago on campus are breaking up with this recent [TS]

00:31:19   where your ideal guy went to the bar I don't think we have resellers around 80 [TS]

00:31:26   people but like that there are there bars around you'll do that stuff for you [TS]

00:31:30   but I think you an apple itself as programs that you can get into if you're [TS]

00:31:33   any kind of company to not have to bring things to the Apple store and then I [TS]

00:31:38   have a business account guided the Apple Store come to your house now go there [TS]

00:31:43   but it doesn't come like with replacing Peter in his hand and hand it off to you [TS]

00:31:47   just take the computer computer way I do think that for people I don't even know [TS]

00:31:51   down down the Dell experiences like or any kind of like 90 days they come you [TS]

00:31:56   get the news thing for the text thing within like two hours and your problem [TS]

00:31:59   is solved 3 imaged everything's back the way it was like that [TS]

00:32:02   operate is supposed to work and Human Services same type of things like a four [TS]

00:32:06   hour window like you know you see hardware goes down your stupid support [TS]

00:32:09   contract supposed to have a geek with the neckbeard parachuting into your [TS]

00:32:12   house and that's the thing is it's all free and then my poor I T guy he goes to [TS]

00:32:21   Apple and they say okay that'll be $700 and by the way we need to send this [TS]

00:32:25   thing to God knows where in order to get it done I mean how is what why would he [TS]

00:32:29   buy anymore max ok first of all I don't think it's possible for an unspecified [TS]

00:32:35   for an unapproved quantity of rammed for a logic board that's exactly what he he [TS]

00:32:42   failed the the number one rule of Apple do it yourself there party RAM upgrades [TS]

00:32:47   which is always keep the Apple RAM and put it back and put it back in whenever [TS]

00:32:51   you bring it in for service [TS]

00:32:53   absolutely right but it doesn't negate the point that that is a really for lack [TS]

00:32:59   of a better word offensive experience for him and why would you continue to [TS]

00:33:03   buy apples knowing that if anything breaks he the person the owner screwed [TS]

00:33:08   and he's screwed for an Emmy thats detention center and Yeti Kai Eide [TS]

00:33:15   doesn't want to buy Apple employees want apple and this is this constant struggle [TS]

00:33:20   but like the tide has been shifting used to be that I just held the line no you [TS]

00:33:23   cannot enact their nomadic this company period no you can't bring your Mac from [TS]

00:33:26   home like that was the old story and that slowly shifted once people get [TS]

00:33:30   their foot in the door like I was thus far as I know I was the first officially [TS]

00:33:33   corporate purchase Mac in my company like four years ago right now if you [TS]

00:33:39   when you get hired I believe it is an option for most people to say they would [TS]

00:33:43   like Max and tons of people have requested max invite often they get a [TS]

00:33:47   Mac alongside their their del so they have their Dell thing there like 430 [TS]

00:33:53   work computer but they also have a work purchased MacBook Air MacBook Pro [TS]

00:33:57   something like that really think what happened was Apple attacks from the top [TS]

00:34:01   their Apple made Prada and I don't know if this was intentional or not probably [TS]

00:34:04   not but Apple made products that were so good that the bosses start wanting them [TS]

00:34:09   and so it depends on how I feel like how soon Maxwell permissible or supported in [TS]

00:34:15   your I T in the structure of your work probably depends a lot on on you know [TS]

00:34:20   how high up the I Department ranks authority wise and how long it took for [TS]

00:34:24   somebody who ranks above them in authority to want to bring in their own [TS]

00:34:28   iPhone or iPad or MacBook Air the bosses made that brought the iPhones in [TS]

00:34:32   alongside and the MacBook Airs blackberries maybe but I would say the [TS]

00:34:36   developers if you have a company with whiny developers and they're the ones [TS]

00:34:41   who brought the max in like the desktop type of thing they want to develop a [TS]

00:34:47   UNIX system software but you can also do go east of Long one machine no cygwin no [TS]

00:34:52   Linux services like that those are the two portals like you know c-level [TS]

00:34:57   executives make anything happen cuz they run the company and they want an iPhone [TS]

00:35:00   they're going to get one in the cascades max although for my experience c-level [TS]

00:35:05   executives have not been clamoring for Macs are perfectly happy to sit there [TS]

00:35:10   were there whatever the ThinkPad is because they really don't know how to [TS]

00:35:14   use computers that shows what companies I work drive not work for companies with [TS]

00:35:18   the CEOs or computer nerds on site and as a yes offer consulting firm when I [TS]

00:35:24   knew that the tightest had turned when one of our c-level execs and remembers [TS]

00:35:28   title of which is funny cause it's like for c-level execs but anyway he had been [TS]

00:35:32   asked for a retina MacBook Pro when the 15 inch Retina MacBook Pro is pretty [TS]

00:35:37   much brand new and that was the first time I'd seen a critical business person [TS]

00:35:42   have a Mac and since then I'd say it's a 50 50 split between Macs and PCs but all [TS]

00:35:48   of the business people are all getting things like I was talking about earlier [TS]

00:35:51   that are approximately the same form factor is a MacBook Air whether or not [TS]

00:35:56   there's a apple on the on the despite ultrabooks it's one of my love I love [TS]

00:36:02   you know this is this is something that the PC industry does all the time and it [TS]

00:36:05   isn't just the PC industry that does this but but they certainly do it a lot [TS]

00:36:09   because you take something was having some success and you immediately genera [TS]

00:36:14   sizes and start discussing it as if its category even if it's not really [TS]

00:36:18   like tablet exactly tablet even even like PDA is back when like pretty much [TS]

00:36:26   the only game in town was palm and and the the palm pilots actually before it [TS]

00:36:31   was it was the us- Robotics pilot 1000 I think first but it isn't just Apple that [TS]

00:36:39   gets targeted but this it's it's you know any company that has some kind of [TS]

00:36:41   innovative thing the the analysts and the press Start genera sizing it because [TS]

00:36:49   they want to be a category because then you know it it's better for them and [TS]

00:36:52   there's more talk about it more interesting and it like it is totally [TS]

00:36:56   sucks the life and originality out of the out of the originator I guess you [TS]

00:37:02   know so definitely happen with tablets and then of course happen with [TS]

00:37:06   ultrabooks [TS]

00:37:06   gets Ultrabook was the generic name for MacBook Airs that's like everything that [TS]

00:37:12   looks exactly like them and has had its generic but it's like it's kind of [TS]

00:37:18   sometimes it doesn't happen like podcast didn't happen with I don't know they [TS]

00:37:22   tried to do like broadcast audio Internet audio podcast stock and that [TS]

00:37:26   became the kleenex of you know overdue Leo Laporte tried to make NetCast and [TS]

00:37:30   that it's in distance take outside of his network sometimes sometimes you just [TS]

00:37:34   can't get out of the way but like its a good Apple didn't have a generic name [TS]

00:37:38   for the MacBook Air system which amounts to all iPad could have potentially stock [TS]

00:37:43   but you know they tablet tablet had been pre-existing microsoft windows for pen [TS]

00:37:48   computing and all the great things like tablets have been around for ages but [TS]

00:37:53   that's not that's not what might the iPad was so different but it's a [TS]

00:37:57   rectangle doesn't take much like that that generic term had been out there you [TS]

00:38:03   didn't have to go now you know there are usually the old tablet PC from the think [TS]

00:38:09   it was a late nineties early 2001 Microsoft did there like second or third [TS]

00:38:12   version of what they call tablet PC and it was actually decent it was like that [TS]

00:38:17   you know they had the convertible ones yet have a little strong hands and yes [TS]

00:38:23   my friend [TS]

00:38:25   and it was it was actually really interesting to use but it was it was [TS]

00:38:28   similar to that if you imagine using Windows 8 only in desktop mode on a [TS]

00:38:35   device with no keyboard you know that's why they felt was like there were some [TS]

00:38:40   affordances for pan and put in some applications and the system would be no [TS]

00:38:45   therapy on-screen keyboard kinda happily as needed but it wasn't it wasn't very [TS]

00:38:49   polished or robust system it wasn't in its funny you bring it up because my [TS]

00:38:53   wife is a schoolteacher high school teacher and when she was in college or [TS]

00:38:57   university depending where you are and she was actually given a one of these [TS]

00:39:02   tablets these Microsoft tablets to use during her in class training which [TS]

00:39:09   student teaching contain the name of that for a second there and I don't [TS]

00:39:12   recall why she liked it she was like the only person on the planet that really [TS]

00:39:15   really liked having one of these pen-based Windows machines are often [TS]

00:39:20   asked her after the show what it was that she liked about it but she swore by [TS]

00:39:24   my friend loved his I mean it was it was really great for note-taking especially [TS]

00:39:29   it especially if you're standing up like you would be with love teaching and and [TS]

00:39:33   a lot of professions you know a lot of times it's just can't you can't actually [TS]

00:39:37   it's kinda hard to like sit down and open it up and type but even even [TS]

00:39:41   without that lady was like handwriting and if if your if you hand write a lot [TS]

00:39:45   of your notes that's probably still a better experience in using iPad people [TS]

00:39:51   like that for the same reason like all the good things that we like about iPads [TS]

00:39:54   now a tiny fraction of those were present in any sort of tablet form [TS]

00:39:58   factor thing and like Microsoft really snatch defeat from the jaws of victory [TS]

00:40:01   with the whole tablet thing because they they were just investing in its so early [TS]

00:40:04   and so often and you know i i think people with the stupid things I was just [TS]

00:40:10   terrible plastic hardware and everything but like there was enough of the things [TS]

00:40:14   we love about the iPad the fact that you can use it on your lap the fact that you [TS]

00:40:17   could touch it if you want to you know like all that stuff was like it's the [TS]

00:40:20   time but it is enough in there were people like hey this things bendy crap [TS]

00:40:24   about this something about it that I kinda like John to it and so yeah I'd [TS]

00:40:27   like more that but Microsoft could not get out of its own way to get i mean [TS]

00:40:31   it's obvious now in retrospect what they should have done [TS]

00:40:33   but like you know I said is about all the things they were they were just too [TS]

00:40:37   same thing with Windows CE and and and Windows Mobile area they were two [TS]

00:40:41   married to windows everywhere PC everywhere that is the paradigm you know [TS]

00:40:46   they would never done anything like the iPad whereas you know no application [TS]

00:40:50   compatibility with the Mac who looks nothing like the Mac works nothing like [TS]

00:40:54   them back if Microsoft had done that you know back when it was playing with all [TS]

00:40:58   these things it would have liked chance for chances for complete chances to [TS]

00:41:02   screw up before the iPad even existed instead every single and was like are [TS]

00:41:05   you gonna start menu on your phone you like kiddingly a start menu my phone [TS]

00:41:09   like that this is just didn't get it so they had it was all there for the taking [TS]

00:41:14   they just could not get out of their own way couldn't get rid of Windows and [TS]

00:41:16   Office like the story of Microsoft and you know what's really funny is content [TS]

00:41:23   to use Virginia Tech in they have a really really great engineering program [TS]

00:41:26   and i'm looking at the Virginia Tech College of Engineering fall 2013 spring [TS]

00:41:32   2014 computer requirement because everyone is required to bring computer [TS]

00:41:36   glass windows 7 or 8 Professional 64 bit processor 3rd gen core i-five blah blah [TS]

00:41:43   blah blah blah input device integrated Wacom Wacom Wacom whatever it's called [TS]

00:41:48   entry or a spin or companion slate / tablet that is required how to this day [TS]

00:41:54   that is this year's computer requirement weird huh that's really interesting and [TS]

00:41:59   supposedly I don't know anyone that's in school anymore but on way too old for [TS]

00:42:03   that but I've heard rumblings that there are some things about it that are really [TS]

00:42:08   great and a lot of things that are really terrible in one thing I was gonna [TS]

00:42:11   bring up was even way back when when when we were talking about in the early [TS]

00:42:15   2000 when these Penn computers worked sort of kind of popular one of the [TS]

00:42:20   things I think a lot of people liked about it mark I think he alluded to this [TS]

00:42:23   was no taking specifically one note which was a Microsoft Office app that I [TS]

00:42:28   have used actually is really darn good for taking notes and it's very free-form [TS]

00:42:32   and I'm sure there's a quiz on the iPad now that I'm not even aware of but at [TS]

00:42:36   the time it kind of stood by itself is a really really awesome note taking out [TS]

00:42:40   and like you said Marco when you can do that with a pan that it's it's no [TS]

00:42:44   different than paper really it was probably different but it's it's it's a [TS]

00:42:50   way better than using a capacitive stylus capacitive screen you really if [TS]

00:42:54   your gonna be hand writing notes or doing anything with a pen on a regular [TS]

00:42:58   basis you really want a resistive screen or whatever the Wacom Wacom ones are [TS]

00:43:04   they just a special kind of capacitive pressure sensitive to this to several [TS]

00:43:08   yes he wanted that your hand will not trigger basically all this pressure and [TS]

00:43:13   the president is also proximity detection so this capacitive touch [TS]

00:43:17   proximity detection which I'm not sure that works and then play no pressure [TS]

00:43:20   sensitive all the pumps are pressure-sensitive you have to press on [TS]

00:43:23   the screen to make a registry thing the Windows tablet things in the wake of [TS]

00:43:27   tablets I believe have proximity they could tell when the pen is near to be as [TS]

00:43:31   it hasn't even touched it yet and I think that's right now the currently the [TS]

00:43:34   current weight come with a believe its law com but I always say Wacom she was [TS]

00:43:40   fun just like you know that he should have gotten their website and maybe they [TS]

00:43:45   do but we have not looked at it but now I think with a kindly do is they do the [TS]

00:43:49   person city in the pen if I'm correct I don't know that one point they've done [TS]

00:43:53   this were like the pressure sensitive devices inside the pen and the service [TS]

00:43:57   that you're drawing hundreds not actually give like the old-time screens [TS]

00:44:00   used to give I think they vote I think all the walking Wacom tablet I think [TS]

00:44:04   they've always done that the dependence is somehow smart but somehow doesn't use [TS]

00:44:07   a battery out enough to power itself or what [TS]

00:44:11   pretty cool anyway once a quick break and thank our sponsor Squarespace [TS]

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00:45:40   com if you decide to continue with your site it's only $8 a month and it's even [TS]

00:45:45   less if you use the offer could ATP 44 accident talk podcast the month before [TS]

00:45:50   use coupon code ATP for a check out and you get an additional 10% off their [TS]

00:45:55   already affordable prices to go check out Squarespace it's everything you need [TS]

00:45:59   to create an exceptional website going back a second there was some news or [TS]

00:46:06   rumor is something we are so ill-prepared for the show there there [TS]

00:46:09   were some news or rumor something that microsoft office for iOS was delayed or [TS]

00:46:13   something there's something about office for Iowa's this week was not there was a [TS]

00:46:17   leak to schedule that's that some sort of leak supposedly documentary Inside [TS]

00:46:22   microsoft office for office for tablet type systems as 2014 and so like [TS]

00:46:30   everyone saying that while they're not gonna really surprised West before they [TS]

00:46:33   release it for a Windows RT or whatever and therefore if there is an iOS version [TS]

00:46:39   of Office has not come until 2014 to think it was just the point was that [TS]

00:46:42   lots of people thought maybe this year Microsoft would ship office for iOS and [TS]

00:46:49   this supposedly unverified leaks thing from inside Microsoft had the number [TS]

00:46:54   2049 2013 and that's that's the sort of person do you think I mean [TS]

00:46:59   you know as we were discussing 15 minutes ago about businesses and their [TS]

00:47:03   computer usage and everything do you really think that office for iPad is [TS]

00:47:09   going to be a big deal if it ever does come out like in the sense that the ship [TS]

00:47:13   they waited too long like I yeah it's like the longer they wait the less [TS]

00:47:17   important or relevant it becomes an ID I'm not turning up my nose it because I [TS]

00:47:21   think it will be useful I think the most interesting thing about office for iOS [TS]

00:47:24   is how the hell that dance between these two covers is going to work or the [TS]

00:47:30   Scarborough and this mouse decided upon Microsoft like as Microsoft gonna give I [TS]

00:47:35   guess they're gonna give up to 30% of their office sales like that is just [TS]

00:47:38   mean like I don't even know how it's going to work or is it going to be like [TS]

00:47:43   free in app purchase a subscription and OB subscription only so Microsoft gets [TS]

00:47:48   recurring revenue and they don't mind giving up 30 percent I don't know and [TS]

00:47:52   what is a good look like and how it's gonna file compatibility will use iCloud [TS]

00:47:56   will with the Dropbox integration we need to sign up remarks on SkyDrive and [TS]

00:48:00   servers and there are so many unanswered questions about how would this is like a [TS]

00:48:06   fish bicycle scenario houses even gonna work I don't understand and that to me [TS]

00:48:11   is much more interesting than does the ipad something because it has office [TS]

00:48:16   think people care about that when I don't know if I'd be so sure I think [TS]

00:48:20   your average consumer your average business consumer is assuming that the [TS]

00:48:26   iPad is a break that is useless for doing normal day-to-day business things [TS]

00:48:31   because it doesn't have office right now as it turns out I think that's bogus but [TS]

00:48:35   I think you're jo Jo smoke and business consumer I bet you it will be a big [TS]

00:48:41   mental shift once it's available that stage piano like it'll it'll be the same [TS]

00:48:47   way the keynote is available iOS and Mac so no matter what presentation you have [TS]

00:48:51   to work identically in both places right now [TS]

00:48:54   like you know the crazy like oh you in bed this Excel chart discharged in this [TS]

00:48:59   thing and this PowerPoint and Excel document on the updated excel doc [TS]

00:49:03   this is still use that stuff you can't do that on iOS like this just no way [TS]

00:49:07   like you have to it's not going to work the same as doesn't stop and that I [TS]

00:49:12   found as the bar it's like you know cause I have office on my Mac but you [TS]

00:49:16   know people still turn their nose up at 10 rightfully so business like passing [TS]

00:49:20   around what should be a text file but instead it's a word document that for [TS]

00:49:25   some reason has some crazy macro thing into something and it doesn't look right [TS]

00:49:29   on your Mac so just just open your V em and just don't even bother with this [TS]

00:49:33   like if it's not 100% compatible like I I found an amazing variety appointments [TS]

00:49:40   variety but an amazing variety in the features of these individual files that [TS]

00:49:45   people use an officer windows and at having office in the Mac like maybe gets [TS]

00:49:52   the foot in the door maybe check the checkbox but in practice all the time I [TS]

00:49:57   come across documents do not look the same on the Mac and PC so what hope is [TS]

00:50:01   there really that someone's going to be able to take a document somehow spirited [TS]

00:50:05   over to your iPad and it will function correctly there even just interviewing [TS]

00:50:08   for editing just like would look the same when I open it very little faith [TS]

00:50:12   that this will be so I think it'll be the same time of nama well it's got [TS]

00:50:16   office and it will get in the door but in practice gonna be like look if you [TS]

00:50:19   didn't created an iOS is gonna look different there something you might not [TS]

00:50:22   work and if you wanna see that are real budgeting spreadsheet you have to open [TS]

00:50:26   on a PC and I would say also that's not that different from the status quo I [TS]

00:50:30   mean right now like you're you're totally right that if it's gonna be like [TS]

00:50:34   a different edition of office if it's gonna work differently at all looking [TS]

00:50:38   almost certainly would have to then that's going to be like a major problem [TS]

00:50:43   for integrating into businesses but right now we already have that right now [TS]

00:50:48   we have pages and you know we have I work on iOS so we already have something [TS]

00:50:53   a situation now where people can open MS Office documents on their iOS devices [TS]

00:50:59   and a half and right and it kind of works [TS]

00:51:02   and if you're coordinating with someone else who's using the PC version you'll [TS]

00:51:06   probably have issues or you'll have your having consistencies and weird for many [TS]

00:51:10   problems I mean it at our office people still send over documents emails and [TS]

00:51:16   make web pages with links that the URL links is G Cohen backslash because i [TS]

00:51:21   dont have the G drive or or or triple slash you know like you know share name [TS]

00:51:28   for like a share this mountain and every species because 90% like that's how the [TS]

00:51:33   world works and it's like if you are you go i click on the link and nothing [TS]

00:51:37   happened there gonna be like I was just looking to see it works out [TS]

00:51:45   that's the world the max come into and that's why I like the people who get [TS]

00:51:49   them like people who can support themselves because I he doesn't support [TS]

00:51:52   that they can't make everyone stopped offering documents with PC specific [TS]

00:51:55   features or pads to shares that are not mounted just backslashes works fine for [TS]

00:52:02   me when my Windows machine and see what the problem is I completely agree my [TS]

00:52:07   point is simply that I think you yourself it's at this John it gets the [TS]

00:52:11   foot in the door in it at least let it become part of the conversation [TS]

00:52:15   whereas I think for an average business users there's no office it's not even a [TS]

00:52:18   discussion there I'm not even gonna give it a shot in reality even if there is [TS]

00:52:22   office it's gonna be a piece of garbage not because it's Microsoft just because [TS]

00:52:26   there's way too much complexity for that platform but I think just having it [TS]

00:52:30   there would be a big win in the sense that it would at least let the iPad [TS]

00:52:35   enter the conversation Windows 8 is really the entry of tablet computer in [TS]

00:52:39   the office in theory like once once the fuel and and Windows 89 laptop laptops [TS]

00:52:48   will become the real deal and I see no reason if Microsoft is able to keep [TS]

00:52:54   going on this course that they can't produce was essentially that thing that [TS]

00:52:59   you know they do convertible tablet we're just talking about essentially [TS]

00:53:03   that but the non crappy version because now finally in something that's with [TS]

00:53:07   like with no keyboard attachment maybe the clicky keyboard or maybe you know [TS]

00:53:10   full-size keyboard than blue suit or whatever [TS]

00:53:12   suddenly you have real computing power a reasonable small [TS]

00:53:15   screen maybe the possibility to like hook it up to another screen like it's a [TS]

00:53:19   dockable laptop without a keyboard that turns into the hole is all Windows a [TS]

00:53:23   concept and I think that is a reasonable concept for business because if it's an [TS]

00:53:27   x86 and there you can run the route 30 versions of Office we're just talking to [TS]

00:53:32   be incompatible with like you know the 97 documents that people are still [TS]

00:53:35   passing around companies all over the world but like thats that will move [TS]

00:53:40   things on and i think thats Microsoft goal is like a we would like to see a [TS]

00:53:43   Windows 87 Ultrabook a Windows 8 tablet but really mostly gets uses PC but also [TS]

00:53:49   doubles as a taboo movies like that's what they're going for and that seems [TS]

00:53:52   reasonable to me and once that happens then it's like well everyone else has [TS]

00:53:56   these little things look like squares that you carry can I have this thing [TS]

00:53:59   with the Apple logo on the back to square the you carry and the distinction [TS]

00:54:03   as Annex A six runs my office I think that would be even less of america's [TS]

00:54:07   electorate well that's a rectangle two dozen of office yeah but they don't know [TS]

00:54:13   that that doesn't help you [TS]

00:54:14   well i think i mean it's worth considering [TS]

00:54:17   would Microsoft withhold office from iOS as a competitive advantage to boot [TS]

00:54:21   Windows 8 tablets just got done with you think I don't know why I think I haven't [TS]

00:54:29   worked on the project with gust 0 at the moment the iPad was announced that go [TS]

00:54:33   get the mattress here they need to get working office that maybe they didn't do [TS]

00:54:36   that but at this point it's not like they're holding it back they just have [TS]

00:54:39   not been scrambling to get it maybe they probably are scrambling to finish this [TS]

00:54:43   point but yeah I don't I just think it's a factor of 10 size and syncing with [TS]

00:54:49   whatever the crazy stretches gonna be for pricing figuring all that they just [TS]

00:54:52   started on it when they finally got all their ducks in a row what they were [TS]

00:54:55   going to do and they're writing it and it will be done is done I don't believe [TS]

00:54:59   that I i honestly I think right now maybe two years ago I would have [TS]

00:55:03   believed that they wanted office everywhere and they're gonna put it on [TS]

00:55:06   the iPad ok but now now that they have their own alternative to the iPad [TS]

00:55:13   they're they're competing directly with iPads and iOS four professional / [TS]

00:55:18   business / office use I can see them totally wanted to keep Microsoft Office [TS]

00:55:25   and and you know quote the real microsoft office they've already you [TS]

00:55:28   that as a selling point that these these are tablets ego you can also get real [TS]

00:55:32   work done on I can see the morning to keep that exclusive and not ever making [TS]

00:55:37   an iPad version of Office now make money maybe to be crappy maybe be you know [TS]

00:55:43   like it's made by different team not really compatible I think it'll [TS]

00:55:46   eventually be there once they get everything sorted already mean their [TS]

00:55:49   tablets and iPads don't like they're they're milking the exclusivity period [TS]

00:55:54   now it's not I don't think I don't think it's anything to be gained by then like [TS]

00:55:57   extending it out for years and years like you know like I mean why do they [TS]

00:56:01   keep making Office for the Mac you know they're not they're not about to yank [TS]

00:56:04   that away and say well you always want to get a PC like they make money on [TS]

00:56:07   these things like that's the bottom line like the night business makes the money [TS]

00:56:10   and I'm sure office for iOS well as well in the price it as a whole $9.99 and or [TS]

00:56:15   or maybe it'll be you know a recurring subscription and I don't even know ya [TS]

00:56:19   know what to do but I'm sure whatever they do it will make the money another [TS]

00:56:24   thing to consider is and and i'm talking a little bit out of my wheelhouse now [TS]

00:56:28   but I know I've heard a lot of rumblings around our office that it would be [TS]

00:56:32   considerably cheaper for us to start using Microsoft [TS]

00:56:37   their office 365 or whatever it is which I don't know barely anything about but [TS]

00:56:42   apparently is all I can think its web based its like Google Docs and Google [TS]

00:56:47   spreadsheet or whatever but anyway apparently there's some office 365 thing [TS]

00:56:51   whatever that means that I'm being told is actually considerably cheaper and I [TS]

00:56:56   believe that's a subscription-based thing regardless of its native software [TS]

00:56:59   or if its web based its subscription and so that that makes me wonder john if [TS]

00:57:04   you're absolutely right that if something arrived on the iPad may be [TS]

00:57:07   either be part of this office 365 thing or it would at the very least via [TS]

00:57:11   subscription one way or the other [TS]

00:57:13   description bug in there but for so many years and it's just such a hard sell [TS]

00:57:18   like Adobe to manage to pull it off but they've managed to not have just taken [TS]

00:57:24   to a backlash Adobe did this description they may continue to sell alongside and [TS]

00:57:28   it's a type of thing for people I think mentally resist the notion of 10 have to [TS]

00:57:32   pay every year for this thing but I think once they get on that train and if [TS]

00:57:36   you do really well if you actually if if it's not just the same exact experience [TS]

00:57:41   you had before [TS]

00:57:41   only now you pay every single year if it's like oh well now you get your [TS]

00:57:45   updates instantly and as I think we never have to worry about licensing like [TS]

00:57:48   you know you give all the benefits you could possibly have a description of you [TS]

00:57:51   can deliver on those benefits I think it is possible to bring the ideas into that [TS]

00:57:56   people are already paying like whatever the hell thing you pay microsoft they're [TS]

00:57:59   like you get access to all our software for free you know like those deals and [TS]

00:58:03   they make with companies are you ok with your licensed this endeavor you pay this [TS]

00:58:06   amount of money for Exchange server and you get unlimited number of seats in it [TS]

00:58:10   and he any software in our library that you want you can download licensed three [TS]

00:58:14   versions of it and distribute you know that is basically a subscription but it [TS]

00:58:17   must be renegotiated repurchase and stuff it would be nice to review its [TS]

00:58:21   automated through your computer is connected to the big Microsoft servers [TS]

00:58:25   and money flows from your company into there is every year that's the dream [TS]

00:58:29   isn't that what dotnet originally meant was it wasn't the dotnet initiative [TS]

00:58:34   original the one of the names for their subscription plans to return the covered [TS]

00:58:41   many different things but I was associated with the common language [TS]

00:58:43   runtime and you know that whole big ball acts I thought it related to like their [TS]

00:58:49   Microsoft Live before was Microsoft Live MSN Live whatever they're calling it now [TS]

00:58:53   I think it was it was done a passport that's one thinking oh yeah but i mean [TS]

00:58:58   but most people don't know his darnedest out now just like iCloud as I clubs [TS]

00:59:03   iCloud even though under the hood its many different technologies doing many [TS]

00:59:06   different things [TS]

00:59:08   the point is don't use iCloud said we have some person to get there a [TS]

00:59:16   projected because they're iCloud download wouldn't completely and I was [TS]

00:59:20   testing it got rejected there is in everyone's got their limit and who knows [TS]

00:59:25   if that was even with the actual problem that are being but that's what he [TS]

00:59:29   thought it wasn't so it's like very well I will not repeat them up and start over [TS]

00:59:33   I want to pull pulled the [TS]

00:59:36   when I pulled the print feature out of its two papers I iOS apps which actually [TS]

00:59:41   by the way still angers like three people who used it but the sprint [TS]

00:59:47   feature [TS]

00:59:48   rejected twice and then during one of the big guy OS upgrades I think going [TS]

00:59:54   from [TS]

00:59:54   going from four to five something broke about it really badly and I was like you [TS]

00:59:59   know what I probably spent more time testing this feature just using it in [TS]

01:00:03   development then all of my customers combined have used the future [TS]

01:00:08   misleading name for a says right there Instapaper doesn't instantly turn things [TS]

01:00:13   into paper I'm once they are useless when I remove each year and like three [TS]

01:00:19   people get angry but most people I asked on Twitter pay on the street because [TS]

01:00:24   it's it's being problematic to support and almost every response was you can [TS]

01:00:30   print from Instapaper [TS]

01:00:32   no one even knew that was there and I have to wonder like and this is kind of [TS]

01:00:37   office related like how many people print from iOS devices I mean I've never [TS]

01:00:42   seen someone do it nor have I ever done it myself [TS]

01:00:45   the only person I know that doesn't regularly is my father who is very [TS]

01:00:51   forward thinking but for some reason he likes him some pieces of paper and so I [TS]

01:00:56   know he does apparently terrible terrible man he'd prints are last I [TS]

01:01:04   heard anyway he prints from his iPad somewhat regularly in firms iPhone as [TS]

01:01:08   well I think but I know it's one of those people just like paper and the [TS]

01:01:12   airport it's it's one of those really cool technology is that's just come out [TS]

01:01:16   way too late it's like like black CD ours is the one that had the black it [TS]

01:01:24   will they were pretty they would've been really cool to come out like five years [TS]

01:01:27   earlier the PlayStation had [TS]

01:01:29   yeah they were all black [TS]

01:01:32   this technology like their princes is this awesome technology there's no more [TS]

01:01:36   print drivers as long as your printer supports this one particular technology [TS]

01:01:40   it is a choice a business a business innovation like finally we had to [TS]

01:01:45   leverage to force the damn printer manufacturers to stop makin the [TS]

01:01:48   Byzantines do of crazy as hardware into they know you do it all yourself talk to [TS]

01:01:53   you one way take it you print it not only hear about it you don't get them so [TS]

01:01:58   many drivers do it like this that's that's why printers have been so [TS]

01:02:01   terrible that is not a technology problems [TS]

01:02:03   a business problem because printers are made by various companies operations [TS]

01:02:07   were made by others in this thing called the driver exists an ambitious never [TS]

01:02:10   going to be a happy ending [TS]

01:02:12   printers were like soft printers like soft motives were like that the printer [TS]

01:02:16   itself would do very minimal computing power and and would do almost all know [TS]

01:02:21   that the recent innovation that was actually exciting thing that was like [TS]

01:02:24   finally it's gonna solve the spending problem we're gonna make the printer [TS]

01:02:26   super diamond probably smart the driver that a problem right there just moved it [TS]

01:02:31   around like really really need to do is just say that you don't get to install [TS]

01:02:36   driver this is what we're going to put out there you'll receive it and you will [TS]

01:02:39   print it and if you don't your printer will appear to be broken and that's it [TS]

01:02:43   was like the legacy computing podcast is talking about cassette tapes next year [TS]

01:02:54   on a man with a pencil pros and cons and rewind let's let's wrap it up thanks [TS]

01:03:02   again to our sponsor Squarespace gonna scream space.com / ATP to get a free [TS]

01:03:08   trial and credited us with that referral and check it out if you wanna make a [TS]

01:03:11   website [TS]

01:03:14   now the show they didn't even mean to begin we want to shell for people to [TS]

01:03:21   reviewers night those people let's do it let's won't you please your viewers on [TS]

01:03:25   iTunes if you like us and if you don't like us please e-mail John and because [TS]

01:03:31   you looked at how many reviews you haven't you got the press was there so [TS]

01:03:34   few of them because there are many I usually forget to look at all I'm so [TS]

01:03:39   I'll end up looking like once every two months or so glad my to interview but [TS]

01:03:45   usually there there there aren't that many usually [TS]

01:03:47   reviewers you understand the market as he never looks but I like all the time [TS]

01:03:51   so I'm vain enough that I look regularly [TS]

01:03:55   accidental [TS]

01:04:02   going kaci [TS]

01:04:11   he was a remarkable [TS]

01:04:49   my fair if you is that one from the guy who's like Marco isn't that bad on this [TS]

01:04:54   particular podcast [TS]